Brain Matters: Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety? Learn a Musical Instrument with Patrick O'Malley

It's true, music soothed the savage beast! And it turns out it good for our brain health, our mood, and our anxiety. There are so many types of music to enjoy and there are so many types of instruments to learn. You can take lessons in person or now you can learn over the internet. There's no excuse not to learn now, even with the pandemic.

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About Patrick

Patrick O'Malley is a musician, a fingerpicking guitarist and online educator.

He helps students to go from never having picked up a guitar before to being really accomplished players.

He has had over 15k students for his online courses that teach guitar to beginners. Since he has seen a surge of retired people becomes students in recent years, he has researched how and why learning music at any age improves brain health and physical health in so many ways.

www.learnfingerpicking.com

www.ageucational.com

Full Transcript Below

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (00:02):

Hello, and welcome to another episode of educational. This is Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument. So our podcast, what we're doing is we Chronicle, uh, our version, our, our journey through our aging process, as well as, uh, our parents and some of the challenges that we run into with them. But we also want to reach out and we talked to a lot of professionals and, uh, people in different areas that can speak to not only the aging, but also adult children, caregivers, just trying to, uh, to navigate, uh, this time of life and some things that we can do to make our aging process better. Uh, today we have an awesome guest we've been looking forward to, uh, me and Terry - AGEUcational are both huge music fans. So today we're going to have, uh, Patrick O'Malley. He is a musician and a finger-picking guitarist and an online educator. He helps students to go from never having picked up a guitar before to being really accomplished players.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (01:02):

He has had over 15,000 students for his online courses that teaches guitar to beginners. Since he has seen a surge in retired people, becoming students in recent years, he has reached, uh, he has researched how and why learning at any age improves brain health and physical health in so many ways. So, Patrick, thank you. Uh, and Patrick is coming to us all the way from Paris, France, not Paris, Texas we'll make that clarification. He said, he's in Paris, France, but he has, he is of Irish descent. So Patrick, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to join us.

Patrick (01:39):

Great. Well, it's a pleasure to be on. Thank you.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (01:43):

Yeah. You know, like I said, we are huge music fans and I know there's so much research out there that not only, you know, music for, uh, I think music for dementia, patients can help bring them back to that time period. And it's very pleasing for them, but there's also that learning aspect, uh, picking up something new and a challenge, and it's not, you know, while we, our audience is aging, I don't want to kind of pigeonhole cause music is awesome for kids. There's so much research out there too, that kids that are in music programs do much better in the math and sciences and just more well-rounded. So, you know, let's keep that in mind while we're talking to one group. It's not really, this is a message that anybody can resonate with.

Patrick (02:30):

Absolutely. No, I think, uh, I think when we talk about, um, the benefits of music, um, you know, one big, one big benefit is that you can enjoy it, right? You can enjoy listening to music, you can enjoy playing it. You can enjoy, uh, sharing music, but playing with other people or listening to it with other people. And there's a, there's a lot of health benefits and, and brain health benefits. I think maybe as, as we age, we think about those benefits a bit more the benefits to our brain. We think about brain health. That's natural, but the benefits are there for no matter what your age. I mean, it's not like only a certain age group will benefit. I think everybody does. And one of the things that we talked about last time was it's very hard to find someone who will say to you, I don't like music. I hate all types of music. Every song I've ever heard, I hate it. You just don't get that. And everybody has some affinity for music.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (03:28):

Yeah. And music is the, it's an awesome thing because sometimes that song can come on and you just, you find yourself just starting to have a little movement, even though it's not really conscious, but, uh, it's such a good mood lifter, you know, for us, uh, music is a big part of our life. When we go exercise or, you know, kind of feeling a little bit slow or a little bit down, you know, you can just pop on some music and it really changes everything. So yeah. I'm like you, it's hard to, I don't know that I've ever met anybody that just said music, whatever

Terry - AGEUcational (04:01):

Helps with every emotion. I mean, even like if I'm, if I'm feeling a little upset or getting angry, you know, I can put on some scream music, just get it out of my system. I mean, just every emotion it helps across the board.

Patrick (04:17):

Absolutely. There's, there's so many different types of music and there's so many different, uh, ways people listen to music, like you said, for exercise, uh, for going on a walk, um, I listened to music, different types of music. If I'm working, I'll put on something, you know, maybe it could be Beethoven or Mozart or something, but, uh, we, we have music accompanying us for a lot of our lives and, um, you've, you've basically said it there, I mean, music can help you feel better.

Terry - AGEUcational (04:47):

Yeah. And bring it does. It does. And it brings back memories, you know, just, we were talking about earlier, it just brings back a certain time in your life. And it's just very, um, it, isn't an emotional thing just all the way around. It just helps with so many things.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (05:07):

Yeah. I guess that's why the dementia patients, because, you know, I think about myself as that, um, you know, it does, when you hear a song from the olden days, you could think, Oh, I remember that, that riding, uh, you know, we were riding in a car down this particular street and it just puts you right back into that timeframe. But there, there are so many instruments out there too. That's the other thing is, uh, you know, I think we're going to speak mainly to the guitar today, but you know, if, if a guitar is not your thing, I don't even know how many instruments are out there, but there's tons of them, you know, that you can take up something that will bring you joy for sure.

Patrick (05:46):

Yeah. I, I don't think it matters which instruments you play. Um, if you, if you, if you're learning any instrument of any kind or you're playing it, uh, you know, generally you, you, um, you, you you're either in one of two modes, when you, when you play an instrument rather really honed in on practice and trying to master something, or you can just be playing something because you're enjoying playing something that, you know, maybe with people or maybe on your own, and you're just enjoying what, you know, you're relaxing. Um, and in both contexts, it is, it is amazing for the, for, for your, for your health and wellbeing and emotional state. It doesn't matter whether it's piano or guitar and people often ask me, Oh, what instruments should I learn? And my answer is, if you've ever dreamt of playing an instrument, like, Oh, I've always wanted to play the cello.

Patrick (06:37):

For example, that's the one that's the one to learn, because you've always had that inside. You you've always had this kind of subconscious thought. I'd love to be a player of this instrument. That means that if you start learning it, you know, it's, it's, it's a real passion for you. So always look inside and think to yourself, well, what instrument would I, you know, would I have thought about in the past going, Oh, saxophone, I'd love to play saxophone. Oh, the fluid I'd love to play the flute. Um, usually there's a couple of instruments that we, that we, uh, have an affinity for. So if you're thinking about what you want to play, look inside, see what's there.

Terry - AGEUcational (07:14):

Okay. So, so I had always heard, well for my youngest daughter, she wanted, she always wanted to play the guitar. And then I was, I was told and did, did a little research, a little and was told that she should start with piano. So everything else will be easier. That's not the case. Do you think?

Patrick (07:37):

Well, the piano is, is, is, is often, um, well-regarded as a beginning instrument because the keyboard of black and white notes, it does map very well to music theory as it were. Right. But if your daughter really wants to play guitar, like really yes, and you, and you put one into her, into her lap before, you know what she's going to be playing that guitar. And if you, if you give her a piano, she might be like, yeah, I'm bored now. So I, you know, I think, I think if you feel a passion for something, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's good to do things that excites you. Yeah. But I mean, a lot of people do learn on piano because, um, because it's, it's, um, like I said, it's, it's a, it is a good, yeah, it's a good, particularly if you want to learn like classical music or, uh, you, you inter you, if you intend to learn a lot of instruments or, um, you know, piano, it was a great starter instrument.

Patrick (08:38):

But again, if someone sent to me, I'm burning inside to learn, uh, the drums, I would say, come on, that's, let's go with that. But that will work out for you. No time. You're going to be good at that. But, uh, yeah, Canada is a great instrument. I think one of the things too, to bear in mind when you're choosing an instrument is if you are suffering from hearing loss, then you may want to, to be quite deliberate in what you choose. Um, uh, it's like, it's a slightly side topic. So I won't, I won't go too deeply down the hearing loss routes, but ultimately, uh, music is different to speech. So if you are, if you are, if you've got a hearing aid that works okay for speakers and musicians tend to have a kind of more refined, expensive cochlear implants that they use, and they often go to an audiologist to get it tuned just right for their instruments.

Patrick (09:42):

Now this, of course, I'm talking a little bit more about professional musicians here and what's up, but, but, um, if you were suffering, hearing loss, something like a cello or violin would be, would be not a great choice because there's so much intonation in essence. And, and you're often better off with something like a bass or a guitar that you can actually feel the vibrations of. You can actually have it against you and feel that, but, but for most people, I think, whatever, whatever Stokes, your passion is a great choice and any news or good instruments will give you incredible benefits. So I, I think it's always important to pick one that, that, you know, you like it. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (10:19):

So what, how did you get into music? Where is it where you, did you play from, from a child, or did you want to be in a band when you were a teenager? How did, how did that all come about?

Patrick (10:29):

Well, it's funny story. Cause I asked my, my, uh, my mother to buy me a guitar and she was like, no. And I was like, Oh, come on, come on, come on. She's like, no. And eventually I think it was, like I said, it was almost a year later. I found one in a, in a house we were emptying out and put strings on it. Um, and I, I, you know, this is why I kind of mentioned the story about whatever you're passionate about. Once I got hold of it, I played all day and all night. Um, and so, uh, I learned when I was kid, I started learning when I was 16. Um, and yeah, when I think about that decision to, to, you know, to pick up an instrument and learn it, um, I'm so grateful I did because now if I come home from work, um, I've got half an hour to play guitar.

Patrick (11:17):

I'm so grateful for that time. You know, it's like meditating while I'm playing. I'm not thinking about paying the electricity bill or my little, my neighbor be angry at me because I forgot to do X or, you know, you know, it has the payment come out of my bank account, what I'm playing an instrument I'm kind of still and taking a break from the world and able to just, you know, refresh and recharge. So, um, I'm really grateful back then when I was 16 that I did actually pick it up and learners cause it's been a great life companion for me. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (11:49):

Yeah. And the other thing about that is that is, uh, it's typically a, that is lifelong. I mean, I know if you have some disabilities older in life, you may not be able to, but for most, for the most part, if something that you can do well into your aging process and still gain a lot of joy. And I think the other thing is give joy to people around you. Uh, there's a lot of play, a lot of places that you can share your music, no matter what level you're at and people just enjoy hearing somebody else play or seeing, or combination of both.

Patrick (12:22):

Absolutely. I got to, I sent out a kind of newsletter like a couple of times a month and I always ask Kate, feel free to reply and tell me what kind of music you're listening to or playing. Um, one of my respondents two weeks ago was Clayton. He said, I'm a fit and happy 84 year old. And I want to learn more, um, jazz and gypsy. And it's like, you know, this, this was perfectly normal. You know, he was learning guitar. That's awesome. And you know, certain types of music he likes and yeah, but it's, it's perfectly, um, you know, it's perfectly normal because, um, and I think we, we spoke about this before is that people are now a little bit more cognizant of the fact that, you know, maybe when they're in their late fifties, they're going to retire soon and they've got, they want to put it to stuff in there now that that's gonna, that's gonna be, um, a delightful way for them to ha to, to use their time productively and expressively when they have some more time.

Patrick (13:17):

Um, it's UN you know, over the COVID period in particular, as I thought it was, you know, selling courses on online and people are emailing me back. Um, when I, I send them a, uh, an email from a mailing list. Um, so many people are retired, are recovering from injury. That's, that's what kind of prompted me to look into, um, the health benefits a bit more. Uh, but I was just amazed at how many, how th how the span of age of my students is basically everybody. Yeah. Um, and I think that's a great thing.

Terry - AGEUcational (13:46):

And what are the ages? What is your age span? I mean, just all across the board.

Patrick (13:53):

Oh, all across the board. I think I, I think music is, tends to be tough to teach before age of seven. Um, and then teaching a child music requires a kind of specialist knowledge I'd, um, I think other people can probably do that better than me, but I think once, once you turn, um, let's say 14 or 15 or whatever age, um, you can, you can self-teach or pick up a course online now for like, you know, a few dollars and, you know, there's, there's really no obstacles, um, with the internet before the internet, maybe you needed to find a guitar teacher or buy a book now, you know, now there's, there's just so many wonderful resources out there. I would say the age is based on the ages of my students tends to grow from anywhere about 14 up to yeah. Eighties even.

Terry - AGEUcational (14:45):

And do you have quite a few, uh, uh, in the older bracket in the, yeah, I

Patrick (14:52):

Think so. I really do think so. Um, I don't have exact numbers, but certainly at least half of my emails come from the responses come from retard people, um, saying that, you know, this is, this is my situation. I'm learning guitar for this reason. Um, I've always wanted to, or when I visit my friends, uh, they play guitar or they play some instrument that we want to go to the music together. It's, you know, right here for them.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (15:18):

Have you got some good? Have you got a couple of good stories from some of your, uh, older clients?

Patrick (15:25):

I think, I think one of the things that, um, that I get sometimes is people will email me back saying, well, you know, Patrick, thanks for everything. But you know, what you don't understand is that I've got a very fat finger or a very thin finger, very big on a very small hand, in a very it's like, it trusts me of all the problems that you have, or I have finger and hand size is not, is not going to determine whether you're a good musician or, or not. It's just not, um, it's just not important. It shouldn't disqualify you, whatever your hands life. So I get, I get messages like that sometimes. Um, I think, uh, I remember an email from someone who was recovering from injury, they were in a car crash. Um, and this was just a, a way for them to, um, to easily get back into the real world.

Patrick (16:19):

They were able to pick up something and, and, you know, work on it. Um, and I, I really enjoyed that because I felt like it, you know, whatever your context, um, I don't think there's a person out there who isn't healthier mentally. If they're learning something, if I'm learning something next week, I'm going to be interested in life and enthusiastic. And if I'm learning absolutely nothing like in my job, for example, if I were to just be doing the same old repeat thing, there's no learning in it. How can I be as happy as someone who was in another job? You know, they're learning things all the time, right? So I equate, um, learning and the state of learning, being, learning to happiness. I think we're all happy when we're learning. And I, I, you know, I think that that's, that's a good enough reason

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (17:09):

And it's a feeling of accomplishment. The other thing I can speak to myself is the managing expectations that, you know, uh, uh, I want to go out in, uh, you know, a few years ago I bought a guitar and I thought I'm going to try to take some lessons and then just didn't find the time, but I wanted to pick it up. And I wanted to be Craig Ross, you know, from, from the moment I picked it up and put my pickle in there, it's like, you know, and I think, um, I guess everybody's in their own, their own place, but also we just need to have patients where, you know, it's a process that you just have to work at. And it takes a lot of practice does take a lot of practice. I did end up taking my daughter,

Terry - AGEUcational (17:50):

Eventually she played piano. And then she started taking guitar lessons too. And she still to this day plays the guitar and it's very helpful to her. Um, and I ended up taking guitar lessons with her or at the same place. And, uh, I just, I didn't put the practice time in, I just was frustrated because I wanted to be able to do it right away. I wanted to be Nancy Ann and Nancy Wilson, you know, like it wasn't work. And I'm like,

Patrick (18:20):

Well, yeah, well that's, so this is very interesting topic as well, actually, because, um, one of the things that, uh, one of the common misconceptions that people have just in terms of learning guitar is that you start off by learning the guitar chords, you know, G and C and D and E, but actually there's a lot of small skills that goes into playing a G chord. Well, you know, you've got to, you've got to strum those notes. You sometimes you got to miss a string. You don't want to hit it too loud or too soft. You want to brush across the strings evenly. And then you've got to play a rhythm potentially, and you want to change this chord and you need to make sure that all the fingers are down rice. And when you change that, um, you know, everything works. You don't have any scratchy sounds.

Patrick (19:11):

There's actually a lot of skills in there. So, um, I actually think guitar isn't necessarily taught the best way these days. I think that, um, what this is, this is why I started actually doing all my, my courses online is that, um, when you start finger-picking, I don't know if you know any of the finger pickers like Merle Travis or Chet Atkins, that kind of style, actually, what you can do is you can say to somebody, okay, we're just gonna, we're just gonna play a G chord. And for the rest of our hour or first hour of guitar playing, I'm just going to finger pick it. Right. So that hand just stays there for the hour. And what actually happens is that students get a much better sense of musical reward. They actually feel like they're musical straight away. So you can kind of reduce the time it takes for them to go from beginning into some sort of mastery or some sort of reward. Um, and that's something that, um, that I've found has worked really well for me, um, in the, in the past.

Terry - AGEUcational (20:12):

Okay. I think, I mean, when I, you know, when I, when I would take, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Patrick (20:20):

No, it's just, I'm just, I'm just saying that, um, sometimes, uh, when we sit down to, to, to take on a project or we sit down to learn something often, we just need to be aware that, uh, part on sticking with it, the stickability is that we get some reward as a student in those early days, right? So if, if you're learning anything tomorrow, Spanish, for example, and within the first hour of Spanish, you were able to let's say, call the restaurant and order something like that will be a reward for you, you know? And that, that helps keep you on the horse that helps keep you into the plastic and early when it can be great. And so, um, this is one of the things that, um, that I I do with my students. I kind of get them to a place for very early on. They have that kind of sense of musical reward. And actually I'll illustrate this for you just compare with,

Terry - AGEUcational (21:15):

I was hoping.

Patrick (21:16):

So, so the traditional way of, of learning an instrument, um, stuff to find a way for this a little bit, this way, we'll go above the traditional way of learning an instrument on guitar will be you learn your chord C play in, play your C to G you play your, um, I knew changed these chords. I don't know if you can actually see, but I guess we're on a podcast anyway, so nobody can see anything, but then you've got, you got these, these chords and you're changing between them. Um, and yeah, I just got, I get my students to always just, just play one chord and just start picking the individual notes. So they would be like, um, [inaudible] all in one quarter. Um, and, and what you find is that people who will start with that, and then it kind of start playing around for themselves, you know, and they start noodling around and experimenting and they come up with something that they like, you know, they're like, Oh, okay. So I can do [inaudible].

Patrick (22:38):

So that's just, you know, one chord. So I think, um, one of the things that we need to think about that it's never too late to learn. We always just need to find a way of learning, where we can get some, some reward early in the process. We can find a stickability and we can not mentally convince ourselves that this is too hard for us. You know, other people can play guitar. They can be great at guitar, but you know, not me. I, you know, I've got the five fingers. So, um, that's something I think that, uh, I've always, I've always tried with students just to identify, Hey, what's the reason you'll take your time. Oh, I would've been friends at the Christmas. Right. And what would be exciting for you to play it all? I've always liked this song for race. And maybe in the first hour we can do something that's fun together. And those three elements usually fine. It's up to the person a year later, they're still taking time.

Terry - AGEUcational (23:35):

So it needs to, you need to find a way to have it customized, customized to your learning ability and, and, and what your goal is for learning to play.

Patrick (23:47):

Yeah, exactly. Now, obviously when I, when I've got an online course, I can't actually talk to the students, but I would just, I would just ask those questions kind of during the start of the course, I'd say, Hey, think about why, why you likes to play guitar, and there's gotta be a reason. Why did I write that down with these paper and think about, um, a song you'd love to play. Like if you had a magic wand, great. Write it down and get a piece of paper. And then after that, you know, my goal would be okay within the first hour, if you playing, can you get some sort of kick out of it? Can you actually do something that's fun that you feel is musical? And like you've made a bit of progress.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (24:24):

Yeah. I liked that. Uh, being able to feel like you've made some accomplishments at the end of, you know, some reasonable time period instead of it being months or years, because that's what you typically, that's what you think about is, you know, I'm going to start with that one chord and then we have to do this and do that. And it may be months before I can string something together. So I like that, that methodology, but what kind of time commitments, realistically, I'm not talking about to be a show music musician necessarily, but just for, you know, the normal individual that wants to, uh, pick around on the guitar, what kind of time commitments are we talking about? Number one lessons per week and that length of time, but also how much time would we devote to practicing on a daily basis?

Patrick (25:15):

So what I say to people is you should practice 15 minutes a day, then you put down your guitar, okay. And you, you, you maybe get a glass of water. Fine. So now that's the 15 minutes over. A lot of people are like, really at that 15 minute Mark, they're right. They're into it. They want to keep playing. So I'm like, great. Pick it up again, but do your 15 minutes. And if you do that, you'll be, you'll be, uh, you know, able to play guitar too, to what another person would consider pleasant within 60 days. Okay. But we're talking about 15 minutes a day. Yeah. And of course you can miss a day. Right. Everybody misses a day, of course. Right. Uh, it's not a huge time commitment. We, we often kind of forget the compound interest about doing something small, but regularly. So right.

Patrick (26:06):

If you did anything for 15 minutes a day, I mean, every day, by the end of the year, you're going to be, you know, pretty competent on some level with it. But at 15 minutes a day, it's very important for music. I think because we, we, we have been wired into our brains. So by not taking a break or like, even if we said you played five days a week, 15 minutes, that would still be fine. Of course. But the, the kind of, I suppose the cute culmination of doing so. Yeah. It very quickly you get, uh, you get to see progress. So my courses are structured that way I can I say, look, play for 15 minutes or go through this lesson six, few minutes and then practice this for 15 minutes. That's your, that's your practice thing. And, uh, the next day, you know, you can decide, okay, I'm happier.

Patrick (26:53):

I'm not. Yeah. So, so yeah, I try to structure it like that. But again, if you were to pick up another instrument, for example, um, the same advice would hold, try and take 15 minutes a day and you'll see, not only will you make progress, but also you will tend to look forward to that 15 minutes. What are your favorite parts of the day? Because now, you know, again, you have to worry about the bills is your neighbor upset. You know, you could just, you've got that little bit of time for yourself to focus on, on learning. Yep. Yep.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (27:23):

I think that, and there's a good book. I'm going to put a plug in, um, kind of off topic, but it's called the slight edge and, and it's, um, the author talks about this compounding effect, you know, can we think about compounding effect of money, but we also need to think about compounding effect of our actions and our thoughts is that, um, you know, if you were to pick up a guitar and play for 15 minutes and not pick it up for another month, um, you may be better than Mo you may be better than the guy. That's never picked it up, but if you pick that up and do it for 15 minutes every day, you know, at the end of 30, 60 days, you're going to see enormous progress

Terry - AGEUcational (28:02):

And being pleasant sounding, I liked the way you put that pleasant sounding to others. That's perfect right there. That's what I'm aiming for.

Patrick (28:13):

Yeah. And it, it also, you know, it w we tried to make things that, that are good for us become a harmless. So, um, for example, if, uh, if you, if you have a daily routine, like you get up, you have a shower, you brush your teeth. Um, like that would be the perfect time, just for example, to play guitar, because you've got these other habits and you stack another one onto it. So your day, you're going to brush your teeth every morning. And then after that, you know, what comes next? It could be playing a guitar, of course in the morning might not work for you. It might be that you come home at night and you've got some things that you do, uh, with, let's say you eat your dinner at night, and it might be right. As soon as I put my bowl in the sink, I pick up that guitar.

Patrick (28:53):

So there's things you can do to kind of, um, make a habit stick. But th but ultimately then after, let's say three weeks, those habits kind of just have their own philosophy and they just, they just stick. And once, once you get to a certain level of competence, it's not a habit anymore. You don't have to do it. You, you enjoy doing it. And, um, yeah, I guess, you know, we, um, we initially kind of spoke about some of the health benefits and I, you know, I think I could share some of those as well, if you're interested. We'd love that. So of those. Yeah. So, um, like I said, I started researching this because of the amount of, um, people who were reaching out to me asking this question, and also, you know, who are retired and wanting to talk to me about it.

Patrick (29:38):

But, um, I looked at studies that had done so medical scientific studies, double-blind proper science in medical journals. And, um, I found the following results. So, um, I know surprised by the way, these things will not surprise you. So a study of patients suffering from depression in 2011, uh, noticed that those who engaged in playing music suffered lower levels of depression and anxiety though, than those who didn't. But it's kind of make sense to me because if I were really struggling with a day or even just a topic in my, in my head, if I play guitar for half an hour, um, that just gives me space. And when I come back, I'm just better able to get perspective. So this one resonates with me that, um, uh, you know, just to be able to switch off for a while, I think works, but improve improved mood, reduced depression, reduced anxiety.

Patrick (30:30):

Um, it was one benefit. Um, another, um, I found a 2014 study that, um, found the playing an instrument, activates the same brain pathways as words, generation, and language tasks, meaning that, um, even a small musical training session, uh, results in cognitive and verbal benefits. And, um, and also intuitively for me, this is kind of not a normal result because if you can express yourself musically, then does it extend that you will be able to express yourself verbally a little bit better too? I mean, I think so, but there's science and science calls this true. Um, maybe the most, the most interesting one I found was on this concept of brain plasticity or neuroplasticity, which is the ability of the brain to form new connections or, or rewire itself, if you will. Right? So if we didn't have neuro-plasticity or disability, the brain would not be able to recover from an injury, for example, a stroke.

Patrick (31:30):

And so it's really important to brain health. And I found a 2013 study that musicians had more gray matter than non-musicians, or if you want to put it in a different way, we see better brain plasticity from people we're training for music, um, than people who don't. And that's in younger brains and older brains. So basically, um, play music is like an insurance policy, right? If you ever in the future need to recover from a stroke or a brain injury than a history of playing music, right. Could be a helpful factor in your recovery, which I think is just an incredible, um, finding. Um, and then the last one, the last one I I'll I'll throw into the mix, um, is the ability of the brain to multitask and, uh, you know, how it works, right? You're, you're constraining on several things and someone throws one more at you, the fifth thing, and then you get stressed out well, um, you know, when you're hungry and without your glasses and listening to the car alarm going off and something else, someone asks us an interesting question and we snap, you know, so, uh, the ability to process, um, multi-sensory information or multitask, um, again, proven to be much, much better, uh, for people who play musical instruments, um, than, than those who do not.

Patrick (32:48):

Um, so there's, there's lots of, kind of cool scientific studies. And, um, yeah, I think the thing about them is that when I think about them, they all kind of seem to ring to ring true to me. They seem kind of like, they're just logically the case.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (33:01):

Yeah, no, for sure. And coordination. I, that's what I think about coordination because trying to make my left hand do one thing in my right hand, do something else. And I'm trying to think about that logically, but I'm sure after you practice it, it starts to become a lot more natural, but yeah, those are amazing health benefits. And just the, um, you know, even just the, like we talked earlier, the boost in mood and taking you back to places and, you know, a lot of songs, uh, have that happy, that happy ring. They always seem to take us back to a happy place, not to, uh, to a darker place. So that's always good too.

Patrick (33:38):

Yeah, I think so. I think when, if I'm sad, music is like a companion and if I'm happy, it's like, it's like, um, it's just me. That's happy. Does that make any sense? Like if I'm in the car and a great song comes on, I'm like, I'm just so, so thrilled. Yeah. Um, and if I'm, if I'm sad or something, it's like, music is there helping me out, you know, Hey, are you okay buddy? Yeah, I'm fine. But yeah, you're, you're right. You know, I think you're right. There's all that scientific stuff. It's, it's, it's important literature, but also just the, the kind of feeling of having a hobby of working on self-mastery on learning something and on creating something. Yeah. You know, I think, I think it's just, it's just amazing for our mood and amazing for a sense of

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (34:28):

It did get me out of a ticket. One day I was driving, I had a good song and I was driving a little too fast and I got pulled over. And, uh, the policemen said, where are you going to in such a hurry? I said, well, you know, it's a beautiful day. And there was a really good song on, I had turned up and he said, what was it? Told him what it was. And he's like, all right, well just try to slow it down.

Terry - AGEUcational (34:48):

Mine had the total opposite effects cause I was listening to Michael Jackson and I sped up and yeah, no, I got a ticket. I got slapped. Must have waned down.

Patrick (34:59):

When did, when the policemen stopped. So you've got to think what's subtle. Does this go read faculty? If I can guess that? And I tell him that's what caused this. He'll he'll he'll, he'll get it. He'll let me off. Um, but it's, it's, it's universal. That's the great thing about music presented. Um, if you, if you look at the brain, you can tell by which parts of the brain are lighting up when they, when they attach centers to you, um, which notes are being played. So if you can actually tell if, if you were, if you're looking at, uh, a map of someone's electrodes on the brain, depending on what you're firing, you can actually tell what melody was being played like Trinity do to it, to do, which I think is just incredible. There's, there's a book, um, called this is your brain on music. Um, which I can't remember the author, but it's, it's an excellent description of how the brain relates to music. Um, but it's just hardwired into us. So, um, there's a lot of knowledge inside us, genetically and hands. And if you walk down the street, um, when you walk you're in perfect time, left foot, right. Foot left foot. That is perfect. Perfect timing. And, uh, it's just something inside of us that, um, that I think is rewarding for us, as people, as emotional characters to bring out,

Terry - AGEUcational (36:17):

I watch, I watched for flat, like if I'm driving somewhere, I watch for flashing lights to hit with the beat of my music. You know, I'll sit there and I'll change stations and try to make it all work, you know? So everything's cohesive. Okay.

Patrick (36:34):

Oh yeah. I mean, driving a music goes well together. I can't explain it. It just works.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (36:39):

And not, I think there's even, it's at the opposite end of our age spectrum we're talking about, but there's actually been evidence that, uh, fetuses in the womb are influenced by whatever music that their parents are playing at that time as well.

Patrick (36:55):

Yeah. There's some great studies on this. Um, whereby kids who were played a certain type of music, uh, when they're three or four, they're like, I love this song and it's like, Oh, that's, that's actually what we played you when you were in the world. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. And, um, and I think it's, there's definitely benefits to putting the headphones on the tummy if you're pregnant. Yeah. Um, maybe not heavy metal, you know, maybe, maybe something more, but it's yeah, it's, it's, it's a universal thing and it's in all of us, which is I think, quite oppressive.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (37:29):

So let's talk for a minute about, um, the delivery of instruction now, you know, there was, uh, you know, we typically think of having to go somewhere to take a lesson or somebody coming into our home to take a lesson, but now with the, uh, you know, with zoom and all these other, um, electronic and the internet, um, you know, just like we're talking to you from Texas to, to France that, uh, talk to us just a little bit about the delivery of instruction, uh, electronically or distance, distance learning.

Patrick (38:00):

Sure. I will I'll do that. It's a pity or not in Paris, Texas, and I'm with Paris, Texas to part as friends, but just, um, so, um, yeah, I mean the, the value of a one-to-one in-person lesson with a good teacher, uh, cannot be underestimated. So, you know, you definitely have the best, best outcome from having an in-person lesson, but the, right now in many parts of the more or less, just not possible. Okay. So forget about it. And also, um, people have different budgets and some people just want to come home from work and they've got 20 minutes. They don't want to, I don't want to book a lesson with another person. Right. Um, but I always say to my students, um, you can, you can learn, you can be self-taught, you can learn online. There's lots of different ways, but maybe then once you get to the, you know, the six month Mark or one year Mark, you know, if you could find a local teacher, even a couple of lessons will be good, they might correct a few things.

Patrick (38:59):

So I think, you know, the in person is usually the best way for anything. But, um, with the, um, I guess with the internet we have, we've just seen more and more online learning in general. And I think what's been really great is that the quality of that has gone up and up and up, you know, the, the early lessons online mightn't have been so, so hot, but these days you can get through this incredible resources online. Um, and you can get lots of material for free, you know, you can Google, or you can YouTube, or you can, you know, there's just so much content out there. One of the things that you might want to consider though, is whether you want to just be randomly searching the internet or whether you wanted that kind of a structured learning format, you know, because, um, it's good to have, uh, a way to work through things logically to get to an end endpoint, which you will get if you buy any courses of any kinds online, um, that I see, I see that sometimes the students, they just browse random lessons on YouTube or Google and they kind of end up not really going anywhere.

Patrick (40:10):

Yeah. But, um, there's excellent courses out there. I think minor, minor, pretty good as well. And, um, yeah, what, what we see with online learning now is just that it needs to be, it needs to be created in such a way that it leaves nobody behind because people are at different levels. So I might give both you guys, uh, you know, a lesson and one of you can pick it up quickly and the other could be, you know, struggling with it or, you know, not understood what I went through. I mean, here or so, that's the challenge when you're creating online education, you have to make sure that you're leaving nobody behind. And when you explain something that you start the next session by going, Hey, you know, if you found that hard, here's a few things to remedy, or here's a few things you can try or go back and revise this part.

Patrick (40:56):

And so you're, you're, you're really kind of trying to empathize it. Somebody that might be sitting in a part of the world funding, funny, this not as easy as somebody else. Um, and you want to make sure that you're not assuming any previous levels of knowledge, you know, that, Hey, I'm going to refer to these terminologies. Oh, well, I don't know. I don't know what that means. So good online education I think is, is, is there, it's out there? I mean, um, we see a lot of people learning online and, um, yeah, it's, it's very effective. Like I think now my I've got over 20,000 students at this stage, um, of courses online. Um, and you know, it's, it's amazing to see it. I think I've got something like 1200 reviews and people just sending me back messages of, you know, how they've succeeded, which is just so nice to read, but of course I haven't, I haven't done it. Like they are the person who, who, you know, was brave and picked up an instrument and put some time in. Yeah. But, um, yeah, it, it's, it's definitely a common to be able to learn an instrument just by, you know, finding some, some stuff online. That's good quality in that works. Yeah.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (42:09):

Yeah. And I think too, also finding a, like you said, that structure, um, you know, sometimes that randomness can really lead us to know where, but disappointment. And so, you know, finding somebody resonate with finding that structure, that's going to start where you are and take you to where you want to go. Very, very important.

Patrick (42:28):

Yeah. Definitely. I mean, the same is true for anything, but, um, it's, it's easier with beginners. If someone's a complete beginner, then it's, it's quite easy because you assume nothing and you teach from zero and that, that works quite well. Um, that's why I actually created a kind of beginner, intermediate advanced course because, um, I was able to say, okay, well, intermediate is going to be too hard for me to quantify. It just could mean anything. So, so if someone bought one of those and they were like, Oh, it's too hard. I'd be like, okay, well you clearly need the beginner course then. Yeah. And vice versa if they bought the beginner and I'm like, this is too easy. I'd be like, okay, well, no problem. I'll swap, I'll swap you for the intermediate one, if you want to refund, if you want this. But the point is that, uh, for complete beginners, I think there's something really ideal about learning online, because you can just go in and say, right, this, this I'm coming to the table with no knowledge.

Patrick (43:26):

And it's quite easy then for an instructor to go, okay, great. Well, in that case, we start here and this is the path you take. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a big topic now. I mean, there's a lot of people in different parts of the world. Um, India, Pakistan, wherever that are doing degrees online for free, you know, they're massive online open courses, um, in marketing or machine learning. Um, I know Harvard has some Stanford has some, you don't get a degree, um, where you can do all of that education and get, get really incredible skills. Um, the challenge, if you're doing that is to maybe find, find somebody that you can prevent the loneliness a bit. So if you've got a friend who plays guitar a bit, it'd be great to say, Hey, once a month, if you could, you know, shoot into me or do a call, right.

Patrick (44:20):

Um, that's kind of cool, but there's, there's a, there's a, there's a changing world out there. And I think we're not going to depend on universities to teach us everything from now on. Don't get me wrong. We'll always have universities. They're very important to our society, but not everybody is going to be learning from that place. A lot of people are going to be learning in more democratized ways. And, um, and I think it's a very positive thing, you know, I see a lot of people learning for a lot of different sources. Yup. No, that's a good thing. So tell us, uh, before

Terry - AGEUcational (44:53):

We wrap up here, so who are some of your favorite

Patrick (44:55):

Musicians who are some people that you

Terry - AGEUcational (44:58):

Either emulate or look up to? It's a hard question.

Patrick (45:02):

Yeah. Um, yeah, I, so, uh, my favorite musicians would probably be guitar players. Um, I, I have a big affinity for the finger-picking guitar players, Merle Travis Chet Atkins. Um, a big favorites of mine. Don Moss is another finger style guitar too. I'd more greatly. Um, I love, um, Jimmy Hendrix, Jimmy page as, as musicians as well. Yeah. Eric Clapton is great. Um, so th but again, I've listened to so many types of music that, that it's hard. My favorite singer songwriter is probably, Oh, I don't know, you know, like Ray LaMontagne, like Neil young, um, there's, there's just so many musicians that I admire. There's hundreds of them. And, um, if you throw out a name, I'd be like, yeah, I love that. So, you know, it's, it's, it's very hard to say, but, um, and Chopin, I've gotten into Chopin recently because my wife loves the opera. I'm not the biggest opera lover, but I've, I've gotten more to show up on recently, could be because she's got CDs of his own. And I find him to be incredible to, to fall asleep to our work too. So, I mean, there's just so many different types of music.

Terry - AGEUcational (46:22):

I love opera. I mean, I, I listen to a lot of genres, but I just get something out of all of them. I didn't think that I used to like country and here I am in Texas, which is where, you know, they play a lot of it. But, um, my dad, Chet Atkins was one of his favorites and he played the guitar and we would sit around and he would, he would, uh, play Johnny Cash. He'd see, he'd sing the melody, of course. And we'd be background singers. And it was like, ah, I don't want to, I don't know why Johnny Cash, I always liked, but just some of the other slim, Whitman and Chet Atkins, Charlie pride, all of that. I just kind of attached it to just the country genre and, you know, just across the board. And then the older I get, the more I find myself, I'm just like, Oh, Patsy Cline. I just, you know, it's so emotional. Just all of it.

Patrick (47:21):

It is. I mean, I think country gets a bad rap sometimes because people have a kind of certain kind of comedy image of a certain type of country, um, all kind of stuff. But like, if you think about town's fun sense and John Prine and some of, you know, Kris Kristofferson and Johnny Cash, you've got some incredible music there that, um, that, that is a mix of, you know, kind of almost pop folk sure. It's country, but it's, it's, um, it's basically are all, a lot of these music, uh, types you have today are kind of based on their antecedents, call it the blues, call it, rock, call it, whatever. So, um, there's, there's kind of big bubbling pot of influences that goes into most musics. And that's what makes it interesting. I think. Yeah. I think, um, you know, I listened to everything. Um, but, um, yeah, my favorite music is probably, it's probably on the guitar.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (48:17):

Interesting. You brought up Townes van Zandt will claim him as a Fort worth. Boy, his family, his family has very deep roots here. And, uh, you know, from settling are from settling Fort worth. They're used to not far from where we live there actually used to be the land aunt, uh, the house where I guess they settled this, uh, farm back in the 18 hundreds. So interesting that he comes up because he was such a great singer songwriter.

Patrick (48:43):

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Under underrated, but, but those who know music, um, you know them well, you know? Yeah. You could definitely claim him. Yeah. I would, if I could town's ozone, I would probably claim

Speaker 4 (48:59):

Rename everything.

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (49:01):

All right, Patrick. Well, thank you so much.

Patrick (49:03):

Oh yeah, no, I just wanted to say one thing, which is that, um, uh, I put a, uh, a page on my website, which has got some of these, um, a link to some of these studies on my mailing list and I'm on a 50% discount if anybody wants to go and do my beginner. Of course. So that's something you can find to learn finger-picking dot com slash podcast. If anybody wants to go over there, they can do so. Yeah,

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (49:26):

We were, uh, we've got that page that we will put in the show notes as well, but yeah, I wanted you to be sure and get out, uh, get your website out and you know, how people can reach out and get ahold of you. So that's great. Yeah. Y'all reach out. And, uh, I, you know, get the, I guess you have the lessons that are all kind of lined out there. You can go through and take a look at it. And then, uh, also if you'll go through this link, uh, Patrick's been generous enough to offer a discount to our listeners. So we appreciate that

Patrick (49:57):

Very much. Yeah, no, you're, you're, you're very welcome. And, and whether it's guitar or any other instruments, um, definitely the message I would give is that it's never too late, you know? And, um, and the benefits are many. Yes. Um, I might even have to follow up with you and whether you've picked it back up.

Speaker 4 (50:18):

Yeah.

Patrick (50:20):

Well now you need some accountability here. I might need to pick that up.

Speaker 4 (50:25):

All right. Well, Patrick, thank you so much for your

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (50:28):

Time. It's been a pleasure speaking with you

Speaker 5 (50:30):

And, uh, we hope to get you back on here again, Patrick

Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument (50:33):

Version, this is such an important topic. And I think, uh, you know, the, the pandemic has kind of shined a light on it, but I think even after we get back to some kind of normalcy that, uh, you know, we, we do need to pick this back up and, uh, you know, people should be cognizant about all the benefits of, you know, we want to eat, right. We want to exercise, but we could also, you know, do some, play some musical instruments to help our future health as well. So, all right, well, that's going to do it for another episode of educational, uh, on Roy - AGEUcational - Brain Matters Want to Improve Your Mood and Reduce Anxiety Learn a Musical Instrument. You can find us@wwwdoteducational.com and, uh, we will put up, uh, in the show notes, we'll have the links to Patrick's, uh, pages as well as that, um, discount page. And, um, we are on all the major podcast platforms, uh, iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify, as well as all social media. So until next time y'all take care of yourself.

www.learnfingerpicking.com

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