In this episode, Rob and Josef talk about the impending paradigm shift represented by the metaverse, and relate it to past shifts.

They speak with Joe Sriver, the first UX/UI hire at Google, founder of the cellphone flashlight function, and CEO of 4giving. Joe talks about the importance of being data-driven as an early employee at Google, and as a founder at one of the first app store developers, DoApp. 

Who does Joe Sriver see executing? Pipe.