Rachel:
(upbeat music starts) Welcome to Talking Intern a podcast by five trainee curators, working in museums and galleries across Cornwall.
Sarah:
So if you're thinking about getting started as a museum professional, we're here to share with you some of our experiences and lessons learned, setbacks and successes from the early stages of our careers.
Katie:
So join us,
Sian:
Sian from Wheal Martyn Clay Works, a Victorian China clay works in mid-Cornwall,
Sarah:
Sarah from Bodmin Keep, Cornwall's Army Museum,
Katie:
Katie also from Bodmin Keep,
Lizzy:
Lizzy from Falmouth Art Gallery,
Rachel:
and Rachel from the Museum of Cornish Life.
Sian:
As we make a daring attempt to break into the museum...
Rachel:
Industry.
Sian:
Industry, yes that's what I meant.
Sarah:
Coming up on today's episode. Our society is putting up these disabling barriers, which means that some people are excluded.
Lizzy:
but we need other things, more personal creative interventions into our spaces.
Sian:
I guess this is a time for my to do a cheeky plug of Wheal Martyn again.
Katie:
Oh no. I've used red text in my exhibition. I didn't know that (laughs) (music ends)
Katie:
Hello everyone. And welcome to Talking Intern the podcast where five trainee curators from across museums and galleries in Cornwall discuss all things, culture and heritage. My name's Katie. I'm the trainee curator at Bodmin Keep, Cornwall's Army Museum. And I'm joined by Rachel from the Museum of Cornish Life, Lizzy from Falmouth Art Gallery, Sarah also from Bodmin Keep and Sian from Wheal Martyn Clay Works. Today, we're going to be discussing disability and accessibility in the museum sector and how it's changed during lockdown. I'd like to preface this with, we are going to try our best to use the right terminology today, but if we mess up, apologies in advance. First of all, though, how is everyone doing?
Rachel:
Busy, very busy. We're opening the museum of Cornish life and a couple of weeks. So we're doing a fresh coat of paint on all the walls, getting exhibitions ready. And so it's full steam ahead, but really, really exciting.
Sian:
Yeah, same at Wheal Martyn really, really busy, but really, really excited, you know, got a project where we had loads of people send in photos. So I'm trying to sort those all out, but it's going well.
Sarah:
I'm back in Cornwall, which I'm thrilled about (Sian whoops). I'm back in the museum again, and you just can't get me out of the object store right now, repacking boxes, rooting through the archives and loving it.
Katie:
Cool! Right. So, as I said, we're going to be talking about disability. And my first question today is what initially comes to mind when you think about disability and why do you think that is? Sarah do you want to start us off?
Sarah:
Yeah. So when I think about disability, I would think about people who face barriers to engagement in a variety of different ways because social spaces, whether that be the physical museum building or an online site, is inaccessible to them. I used to think about disability in a negative way. So people who can't do something because they themselves were disabled, but sort of in the past few years, I've been learning a lot more about the social model of disability, which is just so much more empowering for differently abled people. So therefore I've been like retraining my approach towards disability. Right now, I understand that it's actually society, which is disabling people. So our society is putting up these disabling barriers, which means that some people are excluded, whether that be through lack of access, prejudice, or systemic injustice.
Rachel:
I suppose when I think of the term disability, I think of impairments either physical or mental, which have a substantial effect on someone's daily life. Having said that, I think Sarah's comment about the social model of disability is a much more constructive way of envisaging disability and working towards a much more equal society in all aspects, including cultural heritage and galleries and museum spaces. And I think as public spaces and community hubs, museums and galleries do have a considerable responsibility to reduce barriers to access as much as possible, serving everyone's fundamental right to engage with culture.
Lizzy:
The first thing I think of when talking about disability is my own experiences of people in my family having disabilities, especially my own personal experiences with mental illness as well. So many disabilities aren't even visible on the outside and present different challenges for different people. So two people can have the same or very similar conditions, but have vastly different experiences of those conditions.
Sian:
Yeah, much like Sarah said, the first thing that comes to mind for me is that of barriers. So, museums, many of which are often historic buildings in their own right. They're not always the most accessible of spaces, to be honest. And as Lizzy mentioned, not all disabilities are visible and everyone has this completely different experience navigating the world. So I can't speak on any person's like individual personal form of disability, only what institutions and organizations can do to make their spaces and their information as accessible as possible.
Katie:
Yeah. Awesome answers everybody. I'd really like to echo that issue of invisible disabilities because I think often the stereotype of a disability is, you know, a wheelchair or an assistance dog, disabilities that have a physical marker that someone else can see. Just some quick stats for you. 14 million people are disabled in the UK, which is about a sixth of the whole population and 70% of those disabilities, so the majority of them are estimated to be hidden or invisible. So if you're only serving the population where you can see their disability, you're missing most of the people. My own disability is chronic fatigue syndrome or myalgic encephalomyelitis, which I frequently have to Google in order to spell (laughs). And it's completely hidden. There's no physical markers. Apart from when my energy gets really, really low and I go sort of gray and my facial expressions just stop, I stop smiling or, or anything. And I must look like a zombie. The other thing I just want to mention is that the language of disability is inherently not great because you're saying that you are dis-abled, you're less abled, you're different from normal. Like a lot of language that is changing, as you said, Sarah, differently abled. I really like the term neurodiverse, which is often used for people with autism or learning difficulties because it implies, yes, my brain is different, but it's not inherently worse than anyone else's, it's just different from yours, which I think is a lot more of a positive way of looking at it. So my second question is in a time of lockdown, what does accessibility mean for museums? Has our offer for disabled people, improved or worsened?
Rachel:
I think lockdown has offered to museums and galleries some time to think really, to step back from their buildings and consider what sort of institution they want to be and what their priorities are. I think a lot of museums have taken this time of temporary closure to review and rewrite some of their policies. I know that we've been doing this at the Museum of Cornish Life, which has meant really thinking deeply about equality, access and diversity. When we talk about access in museums, I think it's quite easy to forget the barriers to access, which are not such tangible concepts. Exactly like you were saying, Katie. Museums might have lifts and wheelchair ramps, but it's important that they also offer easy read guides to visiting their institutions, audio guides and information packs in various languages as well. I think financial access should also be considered by heritage institutions when it comes to entry prices and offers in the cafe. When cafes and cultural institutions are up and running again, I wonder if more museums and galleries might consider accepting donations for snacks and drinks, as opposed to setting prices. Cultural access should also be prioritized. And it's always positive to see various cultural experiences and issues represented throughout programs and exhibitions.
Lizzy:
There are definitely some struggles with accessibility right now. Not everyone has a smartphone or internet access. So those people are missing out a lot on the online offer museums and galleries have been pouring out there during lockdown. Social distancing as well in the physical galleries is tricky for accessibility too. It feels like while we've tried to improve online our physical accessibility has been sort of compromised. Being outside is still very risky for many people. And I myself am still finding it quite uncomfortable having to go outside though. Yeah in the culture and heritage sector, more can always be done. We always do things like lift, ramps, toilets, and people are starting to pick up on introducing Changing Places as well, which is good, but we need other things, more personal creative interventions into our spaces to improve the experiences that we're trying to offer for everyone. That could start with working with local communities to find solutions together, especially coming out of the pandemic.
Sarah:
So I'm not disabled. So I, I don't feel like I can adequately answer whether our offer has improved or worsened and really don't want to assume the experiences of others. However, what is clear is that since the start of the lockdown, museums have massively increased their online content, which has pros and cons in terms of accessibility. So for people who can't physically access museum buildings, such as Bodmin Keep, you know, we have no lift. So wheelchair users and people who can't climb the stairs easily, just cannot access our museum. So putting exhibitions and content online, offers a new opportunity for engagement, which some people would not have had at all. You know, I intend to keep curating both virtually and physically, even after the museum reopens. And I really hope that other museums continue to do this as well. However, you know, just because something's online doesn't mean that it's accessible to everyone, but it does seem to me that recently, because of this new, like emphasis on digital content, museums have started to take digital accessibility much more seriously. I've been making an effort myself to ensure that all the videos I've been making for the museum are like appropriately captioned. And I see a lot of other museums doing the same. A new thing is that I've been seeing many more museums providing alt text on their social media images, which is something I was not actually aware of until the lockdown. So that's really encouraging to see, although it's still not happening enough. And it's been great to see organizations such as the Disability Collaborative Network providing advice, promoting resources to aid museum professionals and reminding museums that creating accessible web content should really be a priority.
Sian:
In some ways during lockdown, I think information, like everyone has just said, information has been more readily shared and available online. So only to people that use the internet and that itself is already a barrier. Museums have done excellent work in getting their collections digitalized and in starting projects on the internet. And I don't want to dampen the significance of that because I think that's really great and that enables so many more people as well, to access information and access collections. Like maybe you can't afford to visit the museum for whatever reason as well. But that doesn't actually make information more accessible to people who don't use the internet or who are not savvy on the internet. Like I said, it's just another barrier. So what museums can do is really fulfill their role as centres for the community, and perhaps try to reach people within their community itself rather than expecting to come to the museum. Or expecting people to click on the museum website and things like that. So during lockdown, one of our volunteers, he's 75 plus, and he's autistic. And he comes into Wheal Martyn usually once a week and he doesn't use the internet. He doesn't have the internet. And this could have been quite an isolating experience for him, but we made sure that at least one member of staff every single week, called him up to kind of keep that routine. And I think he really appreciated that, but at the same time, because he doesn't use the internet and because he's older and shielding at the moment during lockdown, he couldn't access basically anything to do with heritage. I don't know if it was Rachel, just now that mentioned putting together packs and stuff to send to people physically. I definitely think museums could do more to actually uphold their role as community centres.
Katie:
Yeah, absolutely. The other thing to mention is, which we haven't covered in detail, is not just digital access, but digital poverty, which is a really big problem in Cornwall. People not being able to afford the internet or it's just on their phone or the signal is too bad because you're living next to mountains and valleys. The online potential is really great, especially for people who are housebound or can't physically access our museums, as you said, Sarah, due to not having lifts and things. I think I agree with your point, Lizzy, that we've improved digitally, but maybe we've worsened physically because all the visitors who are vulnerable and have to keep isolating, they probably won't feel safe coming into museums for quite a while. Maybe until there's a vaccine. From a personal perspective, I can't come back to work in Cornwall because my fatigue makes me vulnerable to COVID. So the digital connection has become even more important to me because that's how I do all my work now. The feeling that I seen from a lot of disabled people is a little bit resentful because "why weren't we doing this before?". Especially with employers, "why did it take a pandemic for you to let me work online, to let me work remotely?". And my concern is that as we reopen, people are very used to doing things the old way, and they might return to those defaults instead of learning from this experience and improving their own practice, which is what I hope happens. Thinking of improving your practice, could you give me an example of good or bad design for accessibility that you've seen?
Sian:
I guess this is a time for me to do a cheeky plug of Wheal Martyn again (Katie: of course) (Sian laughs). Any chance, any chance to talk about it. So as a Victorian clay works, the monument is obviously not very accessible to everyone. Parts of the site previously could only be reached by steps and stairs, which obviously is not ideal. We've recently had a new renovation space, so it's a new space of temporary exhibition and an educational space. So we put in a lift and obviously having a lift is great. It's not the 'be-all end-all'. So it's not the most important takeaway, but I think that the thought and the intention behind it was significant because straight away the first thing I think they considered was "how do we make this space more accessible? So we're building something new, but how do we make it more accessible?" And I think that's really important now because I don't think those conversations and that kind of thinking was perhaps happening, 20 years ago in museums. But it seems hopefully to be at the forefront now, and it's something that's actually talked about. There are still loads of areas of the site, we have a 26 acre site, there's still loads of areas that you can't access, or some people won't be able to access. And that is obviously not ideal. So I'm waiting for scientists to invent hover cars, which would be great. But until then, until then, all that museums can do is really just keep it at the forefront of their thinking for the future. How would we make things accessible to people? How do we make sure that we're not kind of putting up barriers to anyone?
Lizzy:
Before it was mentioned about activity packs, and I'm also going to plug my gallery as well (laughs). Over lockdown, we put together some art packs of sketchbooks, pencils, paints, brushes, and things, and gave them out to local families in the area. We had a little team of people, volunteer,s just running them out, taking them to kids in the area and families who needed things to do at home. And then we've also got a new website with films and activities and things you can make and do. So we've been trying to improve there, I guess, our accessibility, through online engagement because the gallery website hasn't really had much like that on it before. We usually have a WordPress for an exhibition, but actually putting our activities online is kind of new. That's something I think we could definitely improve on.
Sarah:
That project sounds so wonderful Lizzy (Lizzy laughs), really making steps to tackle that digital poverty that we talked about earlier. So my good example is the Wellcome Collections new 'Being Human' gallery, which is supposed to be the most accessible gallery in the UK. And I don't know if anyone's been, but when I went to visit, I was actually really impressed. It just felt like there was such attention to detail and it felt like a really inclusive space. And I did a little research and found out that when Wellcome was in the earliest stages of curating this new gallery, they wanted to embed accessibility across the board from the content, to the interpretation, to the design, to the marketing. And they went for a very collaborative approach to do this. So they invited in academics, such as Richard Sandell from the University of Leicester's research centre for museums and galleries, and also diverse people with lived experiences of disability. And they got these people together to participate in workshops and consultations that informed the way in which the gallery and the final exhibition was actually shaped. And Wellcome also held themselves accountable. And it also appears that they're still actively seeking feedback from the public. So, for me, this is exactly the kind of approach that is needed across the sector. So thorough research and listening to people to understand what they need rather than making assumptions. And just as you said, Sian, you know, embedding accessibility into a project from the very start rather than having it be an add on once it's already been completed.
Katie:
That sounds awesome.
Rachel:
It really does. Maybe when lockdown is finished, we can all go together and have a little field trip, cause I would love to see that (others agree).
Sarah:
And it's a free gallery as well, which is brilliant.
Rachel:
Oh fantastic! See financially accessible as well! (others laugh) So lots of museums have started offering sensory backpacks, which are absolutely fantastic and help young visitors with additional sensory needs to explore museums in a fun and positive way. We have some here at the Museum of Cornish Life, which are free of charge to use and include things like ear defenders and a soft toy. National Museums Scotland also offer sensory backpacks as does the British Museum. In terms of resources which are really helpful when it comes to accessible design in museums, I never fail to be impressed by the Collections trust. They're absolutely wonderful. And on their website, there's a fantastic tool kit to help increase accessibility for visitors with dyslexia by Nina Glencross. And it includes some fantastic advice like, don't use italics in text and avoid red, green, or pink text. Things that you may not necessarily think about originally when you're putting together interpretation.
Katie:
Oh no. I've used red text in my exhibition. I didn't know that (laughs).
Rachel:
You've got a week to fix it Katie!
Katie:
Yeah better go change that before it goes live. That's fantastic. I love all those positive examples. I'm going to be a little bit of a negative Nancy and just show the other side when accessibility isn't prioritised and isn't embedded from the start. I went to a really brilliant exhibition in Oslo when I was on holiday. They were comparing modern climate change with sea level rise in the Iron Age. So it was fantastic for bringing prehistory into modern day interests. However, one of the design choices they made was that the room of the floor was cracked like tectonic plates. So it jutted up in spikes all over. Which looked interesting, visually appealing, but would have been an absolute nightmare if you were in a wheelchair or partially sighted. You would have just fallen over all of these spiky floor bits. And then the labels for the objects were on top of the cases, which were quite high. So if you were in a wheelchair again, or even if you were just short, like if you were a small child, you wouldn't have been able to read the text. So we can see that thinking about accessibility from the start rather than as an add on, is really, really important. And what I always feel with it is that when you improve one aspect, you're often benefiting multiple groups of people. I know I'm using wheelchairs as an example a lot, but think about putting ramps in, yes, you make it so that a wheelchair user can get across the space, but you also make it better for parents with prams or older people with walking frames or small children that want to run around the space and won't trip up a step and fall over. You're actually improving it for everyone, everyone who visits. (upbeat music starts) Thank you everyone for such a brilliant chat. I love hearing all of your thoughts.
Lizzy :
Join us next time when we talk about museums and galleries and their role in the wellbeing and mental health of the community.
Everyone:
Bye!
Katie:
This podcast has been kindly supported by Cornwall Museums Partnership, Cornwall Council, the John Ellerman Foundation, Cultivator, European Structural and Investment Funds and Arts Council England.
Lizzy:
You can listen to this podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you find your podcasts.
Rachel:
Make sure you subscribe so you can be notified as soon as it's released.
Sian:
You can also follow us on Twitter @CornwallInterns, all one word, to keep up to date on what we're doing in the museums around Cornwall. See you soon (music ends).