Our guest, historian Joshua Zeitz, reminded us that many government programs that provide social benefits are very controversial at first--Social Security was initially decried as being very socialistic--yet become untouchable and beloved by the American people.

He also drew our attention to recent changes in civic participation. Our guest Joshua Zeitz noted that former President Trump, and despite his efforts to roll back democratic norms, excited a genuine interest in American politics and voting among supporters and opponents alike in a way that no president has in many many years, inclusive of less traditional voters from rural areas and who lack college education. The 2020 election ignited record-breaking voter turnout--followed by current efforts to pull back on voting rights.

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