Welcome to The ECHO's Menopod, the podcast that tackles puberty's evil, older sister one cheap desk fan at a time.

Join Susan Lee and Dawn Collinson as they tackle empty nest syndrome: the moment that your kids leave home.

For some women, it means increased freedom - and for others, it can feel like a grieving process.

Sue and Dawn chat to Dr Naomi Hodgson, senior lecturer in education at Liverpool Hope University, and Julia Finch, a mother of two boys in their twenties, who discusses the experience of no longer having children at home.