We welcome the voice of one of our friends and supporters to kick us off on the topic of suffering! Courtney wonders if there's a better way to conceptualize suffering beyond the one interpretation she was taught at a young age. We discuss the book of Job, our desire for suffering to mean something, tears in heaven, conditioning and positive reinforcement, and much more.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Courtney Clark featured on Know Normal People
• Julian of Norwich Wiki
• On Being with Krista Tippett
• Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Decides by Sheldon Ekland-Olson
• Collective Church: It's About Job sermon by Courtney Clark

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Follow the hosts on Twitter:

• Josh: @joshlieuallen
• Emily: @RevRettinghouse
• Stephen: @stephenghenning

Thank you to Louie Zong for use of his song In Full Color, off his album, Here. Find his work on Spotify and Bandcamp!

Ravel is a proud founding member of the Highline Media Network, a collective of artist owned podcasts by normal people in normal places. Learn more at www.highline.network.