Intro: Salad bars, Sizzler, vaccine aftermath, resentful giving,
Let Me Run This By You: Mentorship, boundaries
Interview: We talk to Ryan Kitley about teaching theatre, coming to the work with a beginner's mind, and manifesting going "offer only".
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Jen Bosworth Ramirez and Gina Pulice. We
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00:00:11
Went to theatre school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand
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00:00:15
It. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of
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00:00:20
It all. We survived theater school and you will too, are we famous yet?
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00:00:28
Probably. And very low profit margin on salads, but there used to be so many restaurants where it was that it was just like one enormous salad bar with everything you could possibly want and your sound and like really good little corn muffins.
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00:00:44
You know, you know, I remember in the Midwest it was different because nobody eats salad really in the Midwest. I mean, when I was growing up, we didn't, and then there was a Sizzler salad bar and that mostly had like cheese Bleu, cheese, cheddar, cheese, and bacon and eggs, bacon bits crew times that was your salad and iceberg lettuce and some ice iceberg. If you're lucky and shredded carrots, like that was your salad. And I was just thinking of Sizzler. I actually really liked to Sizzler and go with my grandma and my great aunt and my freaking great aunt, Ruth, my grandma's sister would put popcorn shrimp in a napkin in her purse because it was all you can eat.
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00:01:28
And she would take that shit home in a napkin, not even a Tupperware, not a napkin. She'd wrap all the popcorn shrimp in her bag. Oh my God. Bless her. That's awesome. And how you do it over there?
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00:01:41
Well, I woke up in a fantastic mood. It's a beautiful sunny day. I think really that I, this is going to sound crazy, but I really think after my first vaccine, I think I was tired for one month because then I got my second one last week and I felt bad just for one day. And after that, I feel better than I have and like a month, I don't know what to make of that, but
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00:02:07
I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I think that doesn't shock me. Like, I think you were probably fighting it off some form of the virus for
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00:02:16
A month. Yeah, I think I was. And today's my mom's birthday, so yes, yes. Very cool. I'll I'll call her when we're done here. And yeah, so it was, everyone was coming up roses and then I got an email and, you know, I saw the email come through it and I thought I'm in a good mood. I don't want to read this email because I have a feeling it's going to take me off, but I'm trying to be better about responding to people in a timely fashion, because this is not a strength of mine. I mean, I'm the type of person I either get back to you the second I get your thing or like, it takes me six years. Okay. So I decided to be, I'll feel even better if I feel like I've just handled this.
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00:03:00
And then of course I opened just this like Pandora's box of shit and Twinkies. It was terrible. And you know, that aside here's, here's where I'm at and my life. I'm trying to look at these S I'm, I'm trying to stop looking at these experiences and such a, like a micro fashion and think about like how this person is hurting my feelings or how their wrong and I'm right away. And instead I want to make it like a growing a learning moment, a teaching moment for myself about like what my tendencies are and why am I getting angry and resentful and keeping myself in check about like how I do things, which is good. And I mean,
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00:03:40
That's the only way to stay sane. I think, I think
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The only way to stay, stay. And so, and, and, and, you know, not that I never realized this before, but it's really hitting home. Like if you have clearly defined values and every decision you make is, is guided by that. I mean, not to say it's always so conscious. Mostly it's probably unconscious, but when there's a conflict or something like that, and somebody is questioning something that you did, if you check in with yourself and you say, wait, if I were in that person's shoes, like on the other side of this power dynamic, I think I would be fine with what I'm doing. I still think what I did is fine, but what happens?
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00:04:24
The, the flip side of people pleasing is resentment. Totally because this per hangar support, okay, take one too. And because this person who's giving me a hard time, what they don't know is that I'm, I've poisoned them. And that I, that I anonymously provided financial support to them. Oh, okay. So here's the thing that, that, so that's an example of, of people-pleasing and resentment. I, I, it's not like I loved this person, but I knew that this person needed a little help.
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00:05:09
And I found a way that I could do it anonymously that wasn't gonna be, make them feel ashamed. And so I did it. And, and now when I'm getting a hard time, my impulse is to say, I, after what I did after what I've done for you, and that's the phrase after what I've done for you, the miniature here that coming out of your mouth, no, you're doing something wrong.
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00:05:35
Yes. I was just going to say, this is the epitome of how I, I spent probably most of my time until recently is saying like, I, my version of that is very similar to like I did so good. I tried so hard and you screwed me over. And mind borders goes then into feeling sorry for myself and resentful. But instead of it turns to like, I, this always happens to me. I always try and look what happened. So anyway, continue. So absolutely
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00:06:09
Everything you just said. I totally relate to, those are also things that I have said to myself and it's no good. It poisons the well of my own good vibes. And, and, you know, I've said many times in here, I don't think the answer is to only have good vibes, but I also don't think the only answer is to, you know, be a swishing about like a plastic bag and the wind based on who, how if somebody is accepting or rejecting you at any given moment. So yeah. So I'm guess you do. So I wrote a response this has to do with this organization that I'm a part of. And I wrote a re I wrote, I drafted something that I sent to the other, my cohort, you know, the other leaders and the group to, you know, to get feedback about S w which is good, because I didn't just send it so smart, which is what I wanted to do.
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00:07:06
Yeah. And, and the thing about, yeah, so I showed, this is what, this is all it is. I'm just meditating about my desire. And also it's all very selfish of me. Like my desire to please people is for them to approve of me. Cause I crave their approval. It's not really about the other person, what I like to get to as a place when I do kind things for people, it's either, because that's my value to be kind, or it gives me joy to, you know, but never because I like want to have something over them.
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00:07:46
I think that's how I've always viewed. My kindnesses is like th the sort of like quid pro quo, I did this for you. So therefore, like, you shouldn't have any problem with me, you know, it's silly. It's when, when I say it out loud, it's completely antithetical to it. No,
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00:08:00
But I get it. I get it. It is so complicated to even pause anywhere in there and say, okay, what, and it all coming, what am I really doing here? And it, for me, it all comes down to a lot of times, my, I hate that. I hate it, but it comes down to my inner child. Like not needing something that I'm not giving her. I mean that, it comes from me. It's an inside job. It's not about the other person. And I hate that because it doesn't feel like that. And the moment in the moment, it feels like it's about the idiot. Other person it's about them. But then if I pause, I'm like, oh, it's not,
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00:08:43
It's almost never about them. It's almost always about like what they, and by the way, the same thing is true for the other party. Like, I can, I can have this interaction with this person with that knowledge, that they're, they can't be this upset at the thing that I did. And this has to be a projection for them about a bunch of other things. And, and, and okay. And that's yet another realization, because one of my evolution's and this had got me to the point where I felt like I needed to go around telling everybody what their problems, you know, like, let me give you a little advice when you do this, blah, blah, blah, which is also not healthy and productive and helpful people. Don't usually take that very well.
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00:09:24
And unsolicited advice. So it's like, no, my only job is right here. My only job is to check in with my values to make sure that what I'm doing reflects that to treat the other person, no matter what they're doing to me with kindness and keep it moving. Yeah.
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00:09:42
And I think, I think someone once said something super helpful to me, which blew my mind, which you, I mean, many people probably already got this like day five of kindergarten, but it was, it was, she was like, you have no control over the other person, but here's the flip side. They don't actually have control over you either. And I was like, what, what are you talking about? And she was like, it's a two way street, which is what you just said, which is not only do I have to look at, okay, this is this, what I'm doing this strong feeling is about an inside job something's going on with me. But then their email, like you said, is also not really about you.
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00:10:25
It isn't, it isn't, but that there is so much operating that I don't understand. That has nothing to do with me, nothing, zero zilch.
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00:10:34
And this is why fight club is such a brilliant movie, because at the end of the day, that's all we are always doing. It's just finding ourselves. And we, we will so believe that it's, if all of these other people would just stop, you know, doing what they're doing, that I could be happy. It's like, no, even if they stopped doing everything they're doing, you would still feel this way. If you haven't done the work on yourself.
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00:10:56
And that brings us back to what we were talking about last time, which was about did, you know, dissociative identity disorder and, and the parts of us that fight. And then we can't the only way through is bringing them all to the table and saying, okay, parts, what is going on? What can we do here to, to come to some kind of agreement or at least sort out who's wanting what here, because there's a part of me that wants to revenge. There's a part of me that wants to be the victim. There's a part of me that wants to lash out and hurt, hurt, hurt. And yeah, it's, there's so many parts. There's so many parts, even if you don't have did, like you were saying, we all have that stuff, but I think it's all we can do is what you're doing, which is not respond right away.
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00:11:43
Check it out with somebody else who, who I trust S and not, not react from a place of, of like primal smallest.
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00:11:54
Yeah. That's exactly it. And I have to say, when I have these experiences with people who are much older than me, it makes me sad because, you know, I, I sometimes feel like I'm late to understanding all of this, even though people do say, oh, lots of people go their whole lives without ever. And I, and I know plenty of people like that. I still, I think before I was this age, I think I thought that everybody who was this age or older, you know, just had all of this wisdom and, and, and some people that's true, but I really know, and communicate with a lot of elderly people who are far from having, I mean, it's actually, honestly, not only is it not evolved communication, it, it feels like I'm stepping back to oh yes.
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00:12:48
To a much younger version of myself and, and other people, like the way that people in this one context interact with me is exactly the way I felt about how people interacted with me and in high school. And, and, and also the first time that I was president of an organization, which was in grad school, I had the same exact experience. I just really thought that mostly people, when they got to a certain age, they were, you know, just, they were over all of that. So it does make me kind of sad. Like, oh God, this is your life. Right. You just live in these reactions to other people and you just, th they are the plastic bags floating
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00:13:29
Around. Right. Right. And that's, that's what my, my psychiatrist said, don't be a mobile home. Right. He, he drew me a picture of a mobile home and it put a cross through it. And it's a really, I have it framed on my desk and it's, he's just a, don't be a mobile home. And I was like, what are you talking about? Dr. Altman? He was like, don't mobile homes get blown by the winds. Any which way the wind blows. And you can't live inside a mobile home without getting blown away. You need some kind of, you know, and I was like, oh my God, but it's true. We can't, it's a terrible life to just be blown this way and that way by, and I know, cause I lived this way a long time by other people's stuff, my own stuff, outside forces stuff.
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00:14:13
It's just too much. It's too much wind. You can't
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00:14:15
Do it short, get yourself a foundation or a tornado cellar, get yourself on solid ground.
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00:14:30
Let Me Run This By. I have a writing mentor. I've never had a teacher or a mentor who I actually really like. And also who scares me, but is it mean, so my mentor Dawn and I'm her, it's not as though she's, you know, it's and it's, it's a business relationship, but she is, I yesterday I turned it into a bunch of work a couple of days ago. And I had a meeting with her yesterday and I was like, dreading it. I was like, oh, because I've had bad mentorship in the past. Not all their fault, either my fault too, but I just have had been involved in bad relationships that way.
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00:15:16
She's not, she gave me hard feedback, but it was in this really nice, loving way, which not everybody can do. And it's a skill. She is. She gave me some great feedback about my pilot and we're proceeding. And it just was a really corrective experience because if you've listened to this podcast, you know, I have a real hard time with feedback or have I take it very personally, that part is underdeveloped at me and I'm trying to develop it, but she is able, she's not necessarily nice. It's more that she's kind underneath. It's not, it's not kit what kit, gloves, kid gloves, whatever it is, it's she trusts that I'll be able to take the feedback, but she also has really good ideas.
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00:16:00
So it's not just like, you need to fix this. This sucks, this sucks. She's like, what about, she's very curious about the scripts that she's at least in my experience that she's mentoring. And I know it's not just mine because I was in a group mentoring situation with her and everyone's script. She's like, I'm wondering, oh, it's such a pleasure to do business with someone like
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00:16:20
That. So that tells you that the whole reason you were ever in that program
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00:16:26
Was to meet her, was to me.
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00:16:28
And that was the thing that you felt was lacking when you were actually in the program was just good mentorship.
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00:16:33
Exactly. So now I have that and it's well worth the money and paying her like it is. And we'll see what happens, but I feel strongly about this pilot. It's gotten crazy and it's, I changed the title and I changed it back. And the title was me and it was hold my calls, which is a plan, hold my balls and home. And then I was like that. I want it to be called me three. And then now it's holding my calls again. It's perfect. It's great. Because she's like, she challenges me. She's like, I want to know what this means, because me three, I tells me nothing. And I was like, you're right. It's just a plan. Me too. And so she's just making it clear. She's just anyways.
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00:17:14
So I'm I'm yesterday. It was a very sort of unproductive weird day. And then I had this call with her and I felt like it reinvigorated me. So we all need mentors is my thing.
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00:17:25
If you can be a mentor and if you need get a mentor. Yeah. So
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00:17:31
Like in your, I was gonna ask you and your organizations that you're all a part of are there, like, cause we've talked a lot about sort of older generations being kind of hard. Is there anyone that's older because, well, I guess dad's not really older, but anyone in your organizations that his mentor mentoring the younger,
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00:17:57
Honestly it does feel like it's the reverse. It feels like it's the reverse because
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00:18:07
You're just kind of bringing them, you're trying to bring without talking shit about them. We're trying to bring people along. We're trying to, yeah. Yeah. I
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00:18:16
Like you until, until you have had Dawn. I, my mother is a mentor of mine. Sometimes my husband is a mentor of mine. Other than that, Donna, Nicole was a mentor of mine, but I, I haven't had anybody like really sort of take an interest in my career and kind of shepherd me very far in any given direction. So now that you're talking about this, maybe I'm going to be more on the lookout. Maybe I'm going to purposely intentionally invite mentorship. Well,
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00:18:53
What, yeah, what I'm noticing is all our guests, the ones that really sort of made the most out of their theater school experience had mentorship, you know, like ha I'm glad you had Don. I don't, I don't think,
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00:19:08
I mean, it does really seem from the people that we talk to. Yeah. Like a lot of the people who have S two struggled then and continue to struggle, didn't really have enough strong sort of figures leading them along the way. Yeah. And it's, it's a problem. So the thing I want to run by you is It's about boundaries. I believe that the tenants of codependency are so widespread that most people, if not that they're codependent, most people that I encounter in life have values that I feel are rooted in codependency.
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00:20:02
Like if you really love somebody, you'll stick with them. No matter what, or if you really care for somebody, if you're a kind person then, I mean, not the people think about it this way, but what it ends up being, as people can walk all over you sure. And then the converse of that, or the corollary to that is when you put up boundaries, people say you're cold.
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00:20:31
Yes. It's true. And people say,
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00:20:33
You're a bitch. And people say you're difficult, difficult. Yeah. And honestly like the dial has not moved on this topic to my knowledge. I mean, not in my lifetime. I don't feel that the dial moved on this. I feel we are no closer as a society to embracing healthy boundaries. Then we, you know, I just, the number of times in my life, I encounter somebody who, who takes me the wrong way. Who takes me? Who takes my boundaries as a, an admonition or some, like I'm saying, you're doing something wrong instead of no, I'm just holding a boundary. I don't know how it gets to the point where I'm like, I feel like I explain this all the time.
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00:21:16
I don't know how else
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00:21:18
You can't. You know, I think it's a double bind, right? Because you're saying there are people tell us don't be a doormat. Don't get walked all over, stand up for yourself. You take pride in yourself. Even this whole movement of good vibes only it's like own your power, own your shit. Be it be a bad-ass. But it doesn't in practice in practical terms. What that does is if you set up boundaries, right? People think you're being mean. People, people think that you're, especially if you're a woman, people think you're cold ice queen, all that shit. So it's a bind it's we get put into a bind and it's really unfair. And I think, I think it's my job to do the work when someone puts up boundaries to check in with myself, but nobody wants to do the work.
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00:22:04
So everyone's just like, oh, she's cold. She's you know, and I think of female pop stars all the time. This happens too. Like if you look at pink or Katy Perry or lady Gaga, it's like, people think they're a bitch because they're trying to protect their cells and their empire. It's like, and they're what they've done. They get judged and it's not there. And we need to, I think we've got to stop doing it. Yeah. And
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00:22:28
I, I can't, I'd be hard pressed to come up with an example of somebody who lives a life that I would want to emulate. That doesn't have good boundaries, you know, or it's not, you can't, it's not possible to be boundaryless a doormat and have accomplished your hopes and dreams and goals. It's just really not. And if I'm taking my own advice from the conversation we had earlier, I'd have to say, yeah, well, that doesn't matter what anybody else thinks. These are. I've already decided this is what my values are and nobody has to like it. But that doesn't mean that I have to stop having boundaries.
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00:23:09
No. And in fact, if, if, if, if I feel like if I stop having boundaries so that people like me, I'm gonna die and miserable death of, of, of like a mobile home death of being blown around. And then I think boundaries and doing the work of inner work is the only way to freedom. Because I feel like if we are constantly living in this codependent way, there is no hope for our future. It's, it's miserable to try to, to try to live in a codependent, really like relationship, or even like, just have in business, you can't do business.
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00:23:51
That way. Business gets really screwy. And also
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00:23:57
Nobody seems to be able to correlate the fact that boundarylessness in, exists in the same realm as drink wine, to solve all your problems. You know, it's like, well, yeah, if you spend your life, you know, fostering resentments, doing things for people that you don't really want to do, then the only thing you can do at the end of the day is drink. Right.
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00:24:20
And the correlation between that. And, and for me, I'll take it a step further and say physical health. So like, I think that all my fear and resentments and people pleasing stuff, it's not, it's not a coincidence that my heart is kind of wonky. Like I think that all contributes it all. And I'm not saying people deserve it. I'm not saying I deserve to feel to have a heart issue. But what I'm saying is it's all part of the process. It's me, I'm the, what's the common denominator. Me. What's the of thing. Me it's like that. So I just, I hear you. And I think that we we've come up. We we've not come a long way. The needle has not moved. And I think that there's still so much, especially for women, there are so many traps because we're being told, you know, to be brave and bold and speak our truth.
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00:25:12
But at the same time, be nice and kind, and still,
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00:25:16
Yeah. And just platitudes, honestly. And, and a lot of the platitudes are really contradictory. And I feel like people echo the sentiments, especially on social media because they sound good or, you know, but I, I don't find as many people who are really living the platitudes as are spouting them. And I, and I'm not suggesting that I am living the Platte. And so I'm just saying like, there seems to be a big valley between, you know what we say, we're about a lot of people, what we say we're about, and then what we're actually doing. It's the reason that so many people, I think have unfulfilled lives because they have this on the one hand, this idea of what their life could be like, but they don't really have any skill.
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00:26:00
They don't have all the skills required necessarily to get there. So, and, and other myth society is, you know, it's just a matter of working hard. I mean, yes, working hard is a part of it, but if you're just working hard in not effectively, then you're just spinning your wheels and burning out.
0
00:26:18
Yeah. And it's dangerous. And, and I think, and I was talking to this other woman who said, who said like, yeah, we were told we have to love ourselves, love our parts. And I'm like, well, but I need a roadmap to get there. How I have no, like you said, I have no evidence. I have no frame of reference. I have no teaching models for this. So it's like, we need teaching models of how to not be codependent is why, you know, 12 step programs work and therapy because it's the only sort of roadmap I know of how to get out of the cycle of co-dependence, you know,
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00:26:52
That's right. And, and it's cycle boy, it's a cycle of that. Have you twisted and turned and tossing around and like the plastic bag,
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00:27:01
Like the plastic bag and the mobile home. And I'm not saying if you live in a mobile home, you've got troubles. What I'm saying is get some bricks and tie the, sit down, somebody right now
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00:27:10
In a mobile home, looking out their window and a floating plastic bag being like, fuck you.
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00:27:18
No, you're not just get a brick Brix and tie that shit down.
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00:27:21
That's right. And you two deserve grounded. Well,
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00:27:38
Today on the podcast, we're talking with Ryan, Kitley Ryan. Kitley got his MFA from the theater school at DePaul. And after just started acting on stages and big screen with small screens, I'm still located in Chicago, still acting all these years later. And teaching now at DePaul, he's hilarious. He's a father, he's a voiceover actor. So please enjoy our conversation with Ryan. Kitley
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00:28:10
We, I make it up kind of, as I go, don't tell
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00:28:13
All that. Don't you think that's exactly what all of our teachers said. I mean, how, I mean maybe voice and speech. They had like an agenda and we have to do this, this and this. I mean, because it wasn't that the only one, we were really using a book for freeing the natural voice.
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00:28:33
Oh, wait, are we, is this? And we started
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00:28:36
Basically, no, congratulations, Ryan Kitley survived theater school and we have already been talking. So we're, we're just going to continue our conversation about Kristin Linklater, freeing the natural voice. I think that was the only textbook, I mean, history of dramatic literature, but like in acting and stuff and any acting books, books on acting. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I don't think we really, it wasn't like we had a test or anything either.
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00:29:11
I remember getting a lot of handouts, you know, like photocopies of certain sections.
2
00:29:18
Yeah. That's that's also and feeling our teachers just they're like, wow, let's see. I mean, the day that we had to do the it's the last day you're alive go, you know, that was the John Jenkins. Did, did you have that Ryan where you went? It was a spring day and we went into class and John Jenkins said, it's your last day on earth now? I knew even then that that's what he did that day. Cause it was a gorgeous day. He didn't want to be inside teaching. He knew we didn't want to be inside learning and bothered. I have joked that what we did with our last day, we just went back to my house and the most boring.
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00:30:00
And I think we draw, we drew, we draw
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00:30:04
Things and then that was it. Oh, what a waste of a last.
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00:30:09
And I do remember, I didn't have John and I didn't get that assignment, but I remember I was like, oh, that's so cool. You know? Like, and then I'm like, well, I could do this every day of my life if I want it. But I'm like, that's such a cool assignment. I'm like, I wonder what those guys are doing. You know? It's their last day. Yeah. I never had, I mean, I know I knew John really well, but I never had his, I don't think I ever had. I took him. I took his class. I mean, you took movement to music. I took me, but I did that with Jim Dunn. Yeah, I did. I did a couple, maybe like one or two sessions with John, but we did movement to music primarily with Jim.
2
00:30:56
That would have been interesting. I would have liked to be a fly on the wall. I wonder if it was the S S I mean, cause John told us when we interviewed him that it was Jim who, who introduced this curriculum to the theater school. But for me, it's such a John Jenkins thing. And it's weird to imagine Jim teaching that class. I'm sure it was a version of the same.
4
00:31:19
And that was one of my favorite. I love that. And as, yeah, I did, I loved it. I, as weird as it was, you know, just, I remember doing it at like 10 or 11 at night in that little, little movement room and the corner and with Jim and we did it for like four or five hours at a time and yeah, yeah. A minute. Were you in the sanctions?
0
00:31:49
Were you taking mushrooms? What's going on here? Did you did it was that night.
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00:31:54
Yeah, we did it at night, like three or four times,
2
00:31:59
At least. Where are you saying that? That's when the class was, or Jim was like, let's just do it in the morning. Let's just do it. And yeah,
4
00:32:10
Maybe I don't remember, but I know it because I remember it was, it was almost pitch-black and it was, it was at night. I think he got like, he got like late access to the, the school, you know, to the building or whatever. And I just remember it was re it was really cool. It was, I, it was one of the strangest things that I remember doing, but it was really, it was really fun. And I was like, I want to do it again. Five hours we tweaked. It was, it was like a night. It was like a
2
00:32:50
That's crazy. And it sounds great.
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00:32:53
It may, I may have been like two or three hours, but yeah,
0
00:32:57
It was a while. That was, I don't know what the MFAs were doing. And you guys had like a whole, and we were like 9:00 AM movement to music, sweaty, sweaty,
4
00:33:09
Anything at 9:00 AM was not good for me. And that building, we used to do yoga at like eight in the morning and I had never done yoga in my life. And I was like, why are we doing this? And why aren't we doing it so early? And what does this have to do with acting, you know, the amount of things times. And I said that, I was like, what does this have to do with acting? And they're like, shut up and do your downward dog or whatever.
2
00:33:38
Now how many MFA I can cost a small, right? Like how many people were in your class? We
4
00:33:45
S we started with two sections. There was a section, it was 10 and 10. And we ended with one section of 10. Okay. That's how it's been played out was for the, for
2
00:34:03
The BFAs too. So what did you study? Did you study theater in undergrad too?
4
00:34:12
I, my first audition was for the theater school. I never, I never acted like I it's, I it's really kinda weird and crazy how I, I even got in. I don't know. I still don't know, but yeah, I never acted in high school or undergrad. After, after undergrad, I moved to Chicago and I started, I took a class at second city and I, I fell in love with it.
4
00:34:55
I was like, this is amazing. This is awesome. I love this. And I wanted more of it and I wanted, you know, and to learn. And someone was like, oh, well, why don't you try to get your MFA? I was like, great. What is that I had? And I just, I had no clue and undergrad communications, like, like radio and TV production, you know, like, I think I wanted to, to like be a DJ or work and some kind of TV production or something like that. But yeah, so it was,
0
00:35:33
So they said, they said, go get your, maybe an MFA. You were like, sure. And then like, how did you say like, okay, well, I guess I need to learn model out. Did you just fall into it? Or it's just so strange.
4
00:35:45
I bugged, I bugged the hell out of my improv teacher and, you know, he was like, look, go get a monologue, memorize it, work on it. And I was like, all right. Do you remember what you did? Right? I do. I did a monologue from a play called breaking up by Michael Christopher. And I had, I couldn't find the play and I'm not kidding you. Like, I, I was just clueless. I couldn't find the play. I looked up Michael and Christopher and he lived in New York.
4
00:36:28
He's and he's an actor he was on. Did you ever see Mr. Robot? Yeah. Yeah. He's like a, a main character and Mr. Robot anyway. So I tried calling him in New York and I mean, this was like before this was, this was in 95, so it wasn't like her 94. And anyway, I couldn't find a play, so I just kinda, I winged it. I don't, I don't know, but I, I never, I just asked so many people. I'm like, how do I do this? What do I do? You know, I was living with like my non-acting roommates and I would perform it for them and they'd just be like, oh yeah, that's great.
4
00:37:10
That's great. You know, they had no, like, we're all just like, so like, how did you memorize that? So I, I laugh about the, the audition because I walked in, it was the, the large movement room, John, I think John Jenkins was there. I know John Bridges was there, maybe Melissa Meltzer and Jim Mostel off. Right. And I, and I had no idea what to expect. I walk, I walk in and, you know, it's empty except for a chair in the middle of the room.
4
00:37:53
And I kind of looked at the chair. I'm like, I've never done this monologue sitting down. I'm thinking to myself, like, what do I do with this chair? So, I mean, I had to sit down and I didn't. Yeah. I just didn't know. And I mean, I was so nervous and, you know, just picture those four, especially Osstell hop, just sitting there, you know, staring at me. So I grabbed the chair to kind of move it. And Jim, from, you know, all the way at the other end of the room and he's just like put the chair up stage and I didn't know what that meant. Kidding you. I was like, I didn't, I was looking around and he's like, put the chair upstage.
4
00:38:39
And so I kinda like I've moved. I don't, I don't remember what I did, but he literally had to say up by the other wall, you know, so I was like, okay, great. And you know, and I mean, they must've just been like you guys, like, are you kidding me? You didn't know what upstage meant. I did the monologue. And then, you know, I remember us having some kind of interview meeting. They were just asking about my background and stuff. And they're probably just like cracking up, like, like I was wearing like red sweat pants. Cause they said to, they, they said to like, get, you know, like movement clothes.
4
00:39:20
And I like just grabbed whatever was in my, I mean, I was like, yeah, I was wearing like red sweatpants for this like serious, no boyfriend, girlfriend monologue, or what the hell I was doing. I was, I was like, oh, I probably won't be able to change their, you know, little do I know, like at theater school, people just walk around and just taking clothes off where it was like, and to me, I had no idea
2
00:39:50
And say, this is something that I feel sad for younger people about, because nothing, you can live a life where nothing is a mystery. Like you can live a life where you just Google, how do I audition for the theater school? And like, you're going to know exactly what to wear and exist and that's too bad. And you know, people don't get, people don't get to have any moments of just not knowing about something and not knowing how to do something. Because if we, if we had Jim here and if he remembered it, I bet he would say like, it was really charming stage and that, and in some ways like acting teachers, like when they don't have to undo a bunch of bad habits, like you were truly being taught for the first time, it makes their job easier.
2
00:40:38
I mean, talk about beginner's mind.
4
00:40:41
Well, I mean, I do think that I got in like, Gino, like you were saying, that's such a good point there. They're like, oh, we can teach this kid anything because he knows nothing. But yeah. I mean, it took me a long time to like, like figure out what I just asked everybody all the time. I'm like, what's this, how do you do that? How do you do this? It was definitely a humble, humbling experience, but I, I, you know, like you guys just like, I loved it. You know, I loved, I loved being there. I loved everything about it.
4
00:41:22
It was so different to me, you know, the whole experience. And it was really, it was so exciting and creative and scary. And
0
00:41:33
Was your mom like what? Cause you're from Jersey, right? Was your mom like, what are you doing? And
4
00:41:39
They, they, I think they're still asking me that no, I remember calling home and I was just like, you know, they knew that I was out here taking like improv classes and I was bartending or whatever. And, you know, they just thought there was just kind of like a fun thing that I was doing. And I remember calling home and I was like, you know, I'm going to kind of audition to get into this, this MFA program. And it was like the shortest conversation. Cause they didn't know. They was like, oh, okay. I got to go. And they didn't, they just didn't get it. They were like, what are you talking about? Not that they didn't understand what it was. They didn't understand why I was doing that.
4
00:42:22
And I was there like, you're totally on your own financially. They're like good luck, which I are, you know, that was kind of our, our understanding, like after college, you know, my parents were like, all right, well you want any more education that's on you. Right. And so, so I pick a three-year MFA program that costs a little bit of money. Well,
2
00:42:43
It costs a lot of money, but then again, you've been a working actor ever since you graduated, like you're, you're, you're an example of that. You're you, you should be on the brochure, right? Like you could come to the school leave, and this is what you do for the rest of your life. I mean, you you're actually, I would say that people who do that are in the minority of people who graduate from theater school. So it's a huge accomplishment that you just went right to work. Yeah.
4
00:43:09
Well, yeah. And there've been many dry spells, but, but
0
00:43:14
You've maintained. I mean, you've worked, you've worked consistently you're and, and Gina's right. We don't speak to a lot of people for a myriad of reasons. One of which is just said, it's hard as shit, but that have stayed in the business even, you know, anyway, so this is, this is a cool thing.
4
00:43:33
Yeah. Well I appreciate it. Yeah. I mean like all of us and I always want to be working more and I'm thinking, oh, when is it going to happen? But, but yeah. I mean, I, I I've done my best to keep it going. And, and it hasn't been pretty the entire way, but you know, I, when I'm working, I feel like I'm the best version of myself, but when I'm not working, it is it's, it's pretty, it's pretty tough and depressing, but
2
00:44:05
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's probably universally true. And so you, so you arrived, so you get into the theater school and it's day one and you're doing imp like warmup exercises. And this is the thing that my mind always goes to. Cause that was the thing that was so shocking to me is like space work and blah, blah, blah. So what were you thinking
4
00:44:30
At audition or no,
2
00:44:32
When you start, when you started and you started the training, I mean, you didn't have any frame of reference for what it was.
4
00:44:39
Yeah. I was, I was constantly nervous and scared and I felt like I felt RHA and like naked all the time. Like everybody knows that I don't know what I'm doing. I was afraid to speak up. I was, I was just like, until I got friendly with our group and that happened pretty quickly cause we had a great group, they were so supportive and they all had so much experience. So, but yeah, I was, I was willing to try anything.
4
00:45:21
I remember Barry. He was in, he was in my class, Barry Brunetti, one of my favorite human beings. I love him. I remember him saying like he was, I don't know, working on some show or exercise or something and he's like, he's like, well Kitley will do it. He doesn't know any better, so he'll do anything. And I was like, is that a compliment? Or, but I remember him saying that like, ah, Kitley, we'll do it. And he doesn't know, you know, and I kind of had that approach like, all right. And I'll try this.
0
00:45:56
That is where you like that as a kid. Were you someone that would just try things? Cause I I'm the opposite of that. So w w w where did that come from that like, no,
4
00:46:06
I mean, you know, like in high school you're like, no, I was like, and that's probably why I didn't go into acting in high school. Cause I was like, oh no. And I don't want to be, you know, and the theater group or whatever, I was like trying to be too cool. And then that didn't work out very well, but I don't know. I think it was just being immersed in, in classes and, and, you know, being around everybody that, you know, we were just being in that environment. I was like, all right, great. I, I felt, I felt like I was, I was allowed to take those risks with no repercussions, at least in, in that environment.
2
00:46:52
And I forget now do the MFA start doing, cause you have a shorter time. Do you start doing plays right away or do you have to wait until your second? Yeah,
4
00:47:03
We did an intro, I think at the end of the first year. And you know, it was just, it was really like low key. And then, yeah, I think my first, my first play full player or workshop was the first quarter of the second year, if that makes sense. So it was, I love that it was raised in captivity, Nikki, Nikki silver, you were in it. We,
2
00:47:40
I love that play. I love it play so much. I love
4
00:47:42
That play and I'll always love it. It was, it was, that was the first full play because the intro we kind of did, like, I don't know, we did like a one act and then we switched roles and we did the second act. So the intro wasn't like a full play, but I did raise an, a captivity and I I'll never forget it. And Sean Gunn was in it with me. I was in it with him and he was, he was so good in that place. I'll never forget it. And he's such a great actor and such a cool guy, but I have a scene where I play a gay prostitute and I'm making out with Sean Gunn. I'm like rolling around on the floor.
4
00:48:23
And, but like one of the, I think it was probably, you know, one of the first shows where we had audience, I had my college buddies and an ex-girlfriend sitting in the first row, you know, first grade sitting in the, you know, in the classroom, in the room there. And they had no idea what to expect. I didn't tell them anything. I mean, they they'd never seen me act. They, you know, they're couple of the guys were like, you know, X jocks or whatever. And they're just like, what was that? They're like Kitley w what was the, okay. You know, they didn't know what to say after the show,
2
00:49:00
Putting this into perspective that it was essentially the first real play you ever did not counting the workshop. And you're playing this complete, this character completely outside of your own experience. Did you take to it immediately? Did you have any of those feelings that your friends were echoing back to you? Like what the fuck?
4
00:49:21
Yeah, I, I was, I was so scared and nervous. Oh yeah. I didn't know how I was going to do it, you know, not only, not only like kissing another guy heterosexual, and that was kind of odd to me, but just acting, I was like, wait, people are going to come in and watch this thing. You know, I remember Shawna Flanagan, I believe was the director. And she, she was fantastic. And I felt so taken care of, you know, but yeah, it was looking back. I'm like, why?
4
00:50:03
Like, I don't know. I love the experience, but I do remember how, how scared and nervous I was almost every show, you know? Wow.
2
00:50:15
What else did you do? What were some of your other shows?
4
00:50:20
I did. One of my favorites was a one fleece spare. Oh, that's right.
0
00:50:25
And what's Kristen and Dave
4
00:50:29
And Matt Carter and Barry Brunetti directed it. And I remember being so excited because we did that show off campus at the old victory garden space, the upstairs small, small space with the pole in the middle of it was a pole in the middle of the stage. And that was a, oh God, that was such a great experience.
0
00:50:57
Why did you love it so much? Why was it so great?
4
00:51:02
I loved the play and, and the cast was so much fun and I loved working in that space. And Barry Barry's like, I learned so much from Barry just being around him, you know, in class for three years. But also as, as a director, he taught me a lot. I worked with him on, on another show as well, but I, I loved working in that space that it was, it's like a 50 seat black box and, and everybody, you know, it's just like people were right there. It was. So I don't know, it sounds kind of cheesy, but it was so like alive, you know, it was, it was, I remember some of the, some of the blocking, like I remember Dave kind of walking through the audience a little bit and I was like, oh, this is so cool.
4
00:51:52
You know, it's not like here's this stage and here's the audience. And we're going to put on a play. It was like the whole theater was, was involved. It was, it was really cool. And it was a lot of work that, and it was like, we had dialects
0
00:52:09
That tire lick was crazy too. It was, it was not a regular standard British situation.
3
00:52:15
I think it was like
4
00:52:17
Some kind of weird Cockney. I had to learn how to tie all these weird Knotts and stuff. And I remember Barry Barry saying to me, at one point we were hanging out, you know, in the lobby of the theater school, just channeling down on something. And he's just like, Hey, Kitley, you know, you're playing a sailor. That's been out at sea with no food for, for, for a couple months. I'm like, ah, he's like, you might want to try to, I mean, he was totally kidding, but I was, you know, cause we were good friends, but it was, it was really, and then I was like, oh yeah.
4
00:52:59
It's like, I'm like, like that method stuff. Right. Bear. You know? And but yeah, that was, that was a fun. That was fun show to work on. Yeah. Yeah. What was your experience of Jim GMO? Complete fear at the beginning. And, and after a while it was like, I, I loved, I loved learning from him. I, he was really tough. It was really tough on us. I'm and I'm glad that he was he and there was no, no bullshit. You know, he would call us out. I didn't, I don't believe that that's not true. You're faking it. Right.
4
00:53:41
But it was, it was a great experience, you know, and I had meetings with him and his and his office and talk about the, you know, doing reviews of whatever play or show I did or whatever. But yeah, I really enjoyed work. You know, I
0
00:53:57
Was thinking about, it's not typical of a response about Jim and also, but looking back, we had one class with him and, and at the time I didn't know who this person was. And he went around and told us who we were like, this is so crazy. I mean, it's a weird thing to do. And he said to me, you are Lenny Bruce. And I thought to myself, oh dude, and fuck you. I don't want him. And I didn't know who Lenny Bruce was years later, like maybe, I don't know. Only
4
00:54:29
About compliments
0
00:54:31
Five years ago. I thought he was insulting me. I thought he was pelting me and calling me. And I didn't even bother to look up who Lenny Bruce was. And I thought this guy is so full of shit. And then five years ago, I was like, wait a minute. This wasn't, this was actually, and I actually Lenny Bruce, someone I really, really connect with on a lot of levels. So anyway, I think it's just interesting how things come back. You know,
2
00:54:54
He he's a gentleman did a lot of this truth telling that I think was hard for many, if not all of us. And I also had a moment like that with him, he told me something, I completely disagreed with it. And many years later I understood it. It was exactly right. He told me, he was just talking about how about accessing real emotions and acting on like a very basic thing. And, and, and I remember pushing back and saying, but you can't always be accessing your own true emotions. And he was like, why not? And I said, because you'll go crazy. And he's like, no, you won't. And I come, I was so rigid and fixed in my idea that, that, that you had to Eric, like you weren't, I wasn't that, you know what I mean?
2
00:55:41
Like I wasn't using, I had just the completely wrong idea about it, but I think part of why he is, let's say controversial is he did a lot of that very direct truth-telling. And if you weren't ready to hear it, you know, you took it as an affront instead of you
0
00:56:01
Guys were old. I mean, MFA's were older a little bit, most of you. So maybe it like maybe he was more, you know, able to, I was just scared. And then I was upset and I think, did you keep in touch with him? Do you know what happened to him? Does anyone know what happened?
4
00:56:17
I think he's maybe in North Carolina. I don't, I, I don't keep in touch with,
3
00:56:24
Yeah.
2
00:56:26
We had three email addresses for him that all bounced.
0
00:56:29
We're trying to get them on the show. So if you're listening,
2
00:56:34
So tell us about what life was like for you when you first graduated and you stayed in Chicago. What was, what were the next steps right after graduation?
4
00:56:47
Well, I remember thinking all I need to do is book a national commercial and I'll be able to pay for most of my financial aid. And it didn't happen that did not happen. I, I got an agent from the showcase. I was with Linda Jack talent, I think now it's, it was Grossman Jack, but yeah, with Mickey Grossman at Linda Jack talent, and he was great sent me out and, you know, I auditioned as much as I could for anything I could for.
4
00:57:31
Yeah. I mean, just, you know, pounding the pavement in terms of auditioning for, for a lot of things, getting, getting a lot of rejection in terms of, you know, auditioning. You're not going to get most of what you audition for and coming out of the theater school, it's like, that's a tough thing to cause you're like, oh, I'm going to do a show every quarter. And that's not the reality when you come out of that really awesome, safe bubble. So, you know, it was a lot of hustling. Like I bartended, I was teaching, you know, as teaching up and pivot and I was teaching sat classes and prep classes at one point, just doing everything I could to kind of keep, keep money coming in
0
00:58:21
And taking it back a little bit. Did you guys have mornings just like we had warnings, did you get all that stuff? Like obviously there was a cut system because your class went from, went down to half. Did you get warned or were you a golden child? How did that work out for you?
4
00:58:37
I, I did not get warned. Yes. I I'll come on. No, I'm kidding. No, I'm, I'm serious there. Like I was like, like, I felt like they wanted all the teachers were like, all right, we can use him as kind of a mold, you know? Like I don't, I don't know, but no, I didn't, I didn't get a warning. I remember a couple of, you know, guy's in my group and our section and getting warnings and it was really stressful. Some people just quit. Some people left after the first year
2
00:59:16
When we talked to Jeff Brown and actually other people have said this to Jeff, but Jeff was telling us, you know, he feels like theater school did so much for him. He learned so much, but that he really didn't learn about the business of acting and, and like how to audition until he was in the workforce. Did you, did you have the same experience?
4
00:59:39
Yeah. Looking back. I think, I think we all, at least I'll just speak for myself. I could have gained a lot, a lot from learning more about the business, learning more about how to navigate, you know, your business. Cause we're all our own, you know, companies so to speak. And I, I didn't have that. I was like, oh, I'm an actor. You know, I'm an artist. And, and, and then it's like, no, you gotta, you gotta bring the business into it. And over the years, I think I've gotten better, but I wish I started, I wish I attacked the business part of it much sooner if not in school.
4
01:00:22
I mean, we, you know, we had Jane Alderman's class, which was fantastic and, and learned a lot about auditioning for, you know, for TV and film. And we talked about agency's and, you know, casting and stuff like that, but we didn't go too far into. Okay. How do you, how do you run your business? How do you market yourself? How do you, how do you make money and what do you do when you get that money? Like, I remember booking a couple of things. Like I booked some, some commercial by the grace of God. It was like this, it was my one, one of my few national commercials.
4
01:01:02
And that money just, I don't know where it went. I mean, and it was like a year or two out of school. And I was like, oh, I got all this money. It was, I mean, I'm like really? I spent all that money.
0
01:01:16
Yeah. Did you have a showcase experience that is worth, do you want to tell us about, because I'm so curious. I'm so curious about the showcase since I live in LA and everything. Tell me what your showcase was. What did you do? How did you feel? Did you get a million interviews? Tell me, yeah.
4
01:01:34
I remember stressing out about, I of course I'm like, oh, I have to find the perfect monologue. You know? Cause we, we were doing model at that time we were doing monologues and I, I think that was it. So I, for like weeks, I tried to find a monologue and I sat down with Jane aldermen and I was like, you got to help me. And she was like, let's write one. And I was like, oh, okay. So she, and I wrote this monologue and I don't remember Chicago showcase, but I'll just talk about LA cause this is kind of funny. So we do the, we do the showcase and you know, everybody's in the audience are a bunch of, you know, other grad's and the, in the audience, of course.
4
01:02:21
And after the show, Sean Gunn comes up to me and he's like, he's like, dude, great showcase. You guys looked awesome up there and congrats and all that stuff. And he's like, your, your performance was good, but your monologue was so bad, dude, where'd you get that? He's like, get that material for you. And Jane and I wrote it. I don't, I don't remember it was I and I don't. It was, and it was like, yeah, I, I don't know what it was about.
0
01:03:02
I was going to say, you know, one of my memories of you is in the, is sitting down in the pit or whatever that place was and the whatever and the, and the theater school. And, and I, I said, I S I think this was Hugh. And I think you were, you were, and this is what I learned. And it says on your website that you're sort of a, a leading man with a really dark comedic streak. And this is what you said to me. I said, I think this was you. I said, good morning, Ryan. And you said, let's not jump to conclusions, Bosworth. And I thought, okay, the funniest thing that I've ever heard, and I was like, oh, oh, okay.
0
01:03:42
And so what I think about you, I think about this sort of leading man type, but that has this dark sort of Glen, Gary, Glen Ross underpinning of like snarky, snarky racisms. And it's interesting. And, and I wanted to ask you about, you know, what Gina had brought up post-graduation and starting out as an actor. How did you, we talk a lot with my students about like, you know, the personal pitch and branding and stuff. How did you develop that? How did you do other people define you as an actor? Do you define yourself? I just, you know, I just have a question about that. Like the leading man with the, how did, how do you even figure that out, that your leading man with a darker sort of comedic undertone, how does that happen?
4
01:04:25
I think that's what I want to be. I mean, you know, like I love, I love playing the lead's and I love, I love dark comedy, but I don't think casting sees me, is that, I mean, how did they see you? Do you think? Well, as far as like TV and film, I think about the amount of times that I've worn, you know, a suit and tie to an audition, because that was the role that I was playing, you know?
4
01:05:06
And maybe it's just the market that we're in, you know, the Chicago PD and bed and fire where I, a lot of times we'll play a lawyer or a politician or a, and I'm like inside. I'm like, no, I want to play that. You know, I want to play that messed up, like serial killer, next X drug addict or whatever. Who's kind of funny, you know, but I mean, I, I think, and I think I mentioned this in our, in our class, Jen, that I feel like the industry kind of, you know, determines your type based on, based on the roles that you're getting called in for.
4
01:05:47
And then at some point, hopefully you have enough clout or enough, you know, credits or whatever you want to call it that you can say, oh, no, I'm going to turn down this lawyer role audition, whatever, because I want to focus on something else, but no, you got to take the jobs that are coming your way,
2
01:06:07
But yeah, yeah. That whole typecasting thing it's, it's still interesting to me. I mean, a person who comes to mind is David a smallish and who's constantly cast, you know, and these villainous fucked up roles. And he will tell you that, like, he can relate to that in some ways, but he's so positive and happy and fun that, and then I have a child who is an actor and he's a big kid and he, oh, only exclusively, exclusively. I can't think of a single time. He didn't get called in for the role of a bully. And he is the sweetest most kindhearted.
2
01:06:49
And he's always like, mom, I don't know how to pay. And you know, so, but, but this tends to be a very important part of being an actor is figure establishing what your essence is, which is often just reflected back to you by the roles that you get called in four, and then embracing it and just saying like, this is, I don't relate to this, but like, this is how they see me. So I'm gonna, you know, make it work for me, which I, I wish it was another thing I wish we had kind of learned a little bit more about and that theater school and how you see yourself almost, almost never matches up with how the casting sees you and, and make them make them believe there.
2
01:07:32
And, and
0
01:07:32
I think you said it right, and I really relate to what you said about like that it's, it's, it's embracing it and, and see saying, okay, if I'm going to be in this profession, and these are the people that are casting me instead of fighting against it, because I think we get into a lot of trouble. No, that's not who I am. That's not well, that's who they see you as. So either, either something's got to shift or you embrace it. And I think embracing it is the only way to go about it or pick another career because, because it is what it is. It is how they see you. Oh, it's so interesting. I'm like having all these Epiphanes down like, oh, I should just embrace the weird neighbor or like, whatever it is, I think accepting it.
4
01:08:16
Right. And, you know, and that's where the business comes in. And it's like, okay, you know, play all these, these roles, these typecast roles and make some money from it and then write your own project, or, you know, write your own, write your own short film or play or whatever, and put yourself in it the way you want it. In other words, give yourself the freedom to do that by I approaching, you know, all these, all these roles that are going to make you some money and, and, and embracing it, like you said, Jen, it's the business part of it. That,
2
01:08:49
And by the way, typecasting is not specific to the world of acting like CEOs tend to be tall, handsome white guys, and, you know, people who are, who, who, who are going for a profession where they don't necessarily look like the archetype of it struggle, struggled. They, they butt up against it, which is not to say that they shouldn't continue that struggle. But like typecasting is kind of a human nature flaw.
0
01:09:20
I think it's a psycho, a psychology thing. Right. And, and, and what's familiar to us and what makes us comforted and, and what we read in books and see on television. And then it just kind of perpetuates itself. But what I think is interesting as writers, that, that one of my goals is to yeah. Is to challenge those typecasts and say, wait a minute, what if the, you know, to pull a boo Radley kind of situation, or to pull a, to make the, the, the really, really beautiful woman, you know, a killer or a whatever. So it's, it's interesting. It's interesting. And I, I think it, DePaul, it would have behooved us. And that's what I'm trying to do at DePaul right now is to have this thing that says, listen, you are, you will yours, no one like you, but people are going to see you a certain way.
0
01:10:06
So, so can you reconcile that? And can you distill it down to a thing and create a sort of personal pitch that is like, Hey, I'm the body of the CU the cookie neighbor wrapped up in the, you know, Sophia Loren package or whoever, whatever you're going to say, but figure it out. And I think it was what I'm saying is take ownership, take ownership of what your career is in that way. Right?
2
01:10:33
So, Ryan, what do you want to do next? Like, do you have some dreams, you know, about the, where this next phase of your career is going to go?
4
01:10:44
I was actually just talking to a friend of mine about this. The other day, a goal of mine is to, and this is a big goal for an actor is to not, not have to audition anymore. I mean, that's, that's, I'm just gonna put it out. I want to get to a point where I can pick and choose, and people are coming to me and saying, Hey, we're considering you this for this. And, you know, as opposed, auditioning with hundreds of people for, for a small role, but that's, that's in a perfect world, but it can
0
01:11:23
Happen. I've seen it where, especially working for PR casting, seeing how some actors make the choice eventually to just be offer only, which means you have to come to me with an offer. And I always think, I know it's risky, but I always say those people are bad-ass that our offer only cause I'm like, they just, yeah. They say,
2
01:11:43
I was just sitting here thinking like, you need a vision board and it needs to say offer only, and you need to hang it in someplace that you see every day. Yep. And you, cause that's what it always did. This is what it always is. This is like one of my big learnings in life. I have the majority of my life felt one way about myself and then hoped that everybody else didn't feel that way about it. And then been angry when they, I get angry when sorry, but he sees me in the exact way. I am presenting myself the way, want to be received. So like, okay, I have to reverse engineer it. I have to just be that thing embody that thing that I'm hoping to get you like faking it until
4
01:12:27
I make it right. Yeah. There's
2
01:12:29
A lot to be said for faking it until you make it. Where can people find you?
4
01:12:33
My website, Ryan www Ryan Kitley dot com.
2
01:12:42
Hey guys, it's Gina popping on at the end here to say, thank you so much for listening. If you are a listener, but not a subscriber, please do subscribe. It really helps with the search engine optimization of it all. There's something like 2 million podcasts out there. So it's pretty hard to make a splash, but people writing reviews, rating, and subscribing and sharing that information with their friends does really help us. So please do that. I Survived Theatre School is an undeniable in production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina
2
01:13:22
You can also follow us on social. Thanks.