Opening: Jen and Gina discuss microphone woes, professional gamers, and taking pictures of the television.
Let Me Run This By You: Dolly Parton documentary, an idea for a new take on 9 to 5, and comforting watching in a pandemic.
Interview: Jeffrey Brown talks getting into The Theatre School, growing up in an elite musical family, inappropriate audition pieces, the pelvic clock, drumming, discipline, Ric Murphy, the legendary production of Frank Galati's The Grapes of Wrath at Steppenwolf in Chicago, learning acting anew with each project, True Blood, Henry Danger, playing at the Bop Shop, Blue Man Group, trusting yourself as an actor, fearing "getting cut" at theatre school, Don Ilko, and Camp Winnarainbow. We did not get a chance to discuss his film, Vicarious, or his inimitable turn on Doc McStuffins (plus so, so much more), so hopefully we'll have him back!

FULL TRANSCRIPT
Jeff Brown: (00:10)
And I'm Gina, Pulice.

Jeff Brown: (00:11)
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

Jeff Brown: (00:15)
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

Jeff Brown: (00:20)
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

Jeff Brown: (00:38)
Real nook, like window. Cause not. So my chair is high now.

Jeff Brown: (00:45)
Okay. Then we both have a new thing. So, uh, I'm having, I've been having microphone problems and I went online yesterday to find, I tried to get my microphone fixed. Um, I tried to, I'd watched YouTube videos about how to fix it. I figured out what was wrong with it. And when I was watching the video about the guy who fixed it during the video, he, he, he he's using a, um, thought solder, soldering iron. And he, he just like completely melts the motherboard. Okay. So you don't know how to do this either.

Jeff Brown: (01:24)
Brilliant though. That's kind of brilliant.

Jeff Brown: (01:26)
So I go to best buy.

Jeff Brown: (01:29)
Oh no. I went there to try and fix my printer. Go ahead.

Jeff Brown: (01:33)
They had, you know, they're these microphones all sold out because everybody and their mother has started test last month. So, so the one that was left is world of Warcraft.

Jeff Brown: (01:48)
Oh my God. I love it.

Jeff Brown: (01:51)
Get gaming microphone. I love it. Why do you need to make her from here gamer? I don't know what. Yes. I don't see. This is you have to run. I don't know, dude. I don't know if you want to be anywhere in this life as a game, right? You better have good quality headphones, good quality microphone. Because you might be one of the people who gets a serious living. She's just recording yourself, playing video games and having a YouTube channel. Right. That other sit and watch you play a video game. It is the single strangest thing about this generation. It's like the only thing that I, that I don't go, Oh, I get that, you know?

Jeff Brown: (02:43)
Okay. So I'm trying to like equate it to anything that we, I don't think there is

Jeff Brown: (02:49)
The closest I could come to it and it's really not close at all. Like I just remember my mom looking at me when I was, when I would be taping radio. Oh, Oh,

Jeff Brown: (03:03)
Oh, that is yes. Yes. I taped her and I also okay. Okay. That we're getting somewhere now. We're getting somewhere. You know what I did took pictures of the television with my Kodak, Kodak. This camera when Michael Jackson was on that's similar. So cute. I took my disc, my disc Kodak, disc man, this maker, whatever. And just whatever and Kodak disc and that I got for Christmas and I wouldn't, my Michael Jackson was on at the, Grammy's doing his moonwalk. I was taking pictures. The pictures I still have. I found, I think I found one, one. You it's,

Jeff Brown: (03:39)
You can barely tell why,

Jeff Brown: (03:42)
But that's what I did over and over. And I used all my film taking pictures of the telephone.

Speaker 4: (04:00)
Hey, Let Me Run This By You

Jeff Brown: (04:03)
Nah, I watched the Dolly Parton documentary.

Jeff Brown: (04:06)
Okay. That's on my list. It's

Jeff Brown: (04:08)
So good. She's crazy. But it's so good. I mean, she's bonkers. So, but the night, my nine to five idea, and I know like there's probably a million apps you sent me. I know, but I'm thinking of a television series nine to five, but it's called nine to 25 and it's they actually kill the guy. They killed their boss. Um, so, so yeah, like a true crime twist. So it's, it's a bunch of women and they kill their boss and then they have to spend the rest of the series trying to cover it up. And like, I just, I was like,

Jeff Brown: (04:41)
What a great title. I love that.

Jeff Brown: (04:46)
So anyway, I just thought of you because I was like, Oh my God, there hasn't been, there's probably a million remakes that have been optioned, but like I haven't seen that workplace comedy in television.

Jeff Brown: (05:00)
Well, okay. And actually you're reminding me of something. Um, they remake every single superhero movie, like 1000 times over. We, there's never a female equivalent for that. There's no like female superhero or just female story that we keep seeing over and over again. Meanwhile, not only the, um, the superheroes, but like also just these action franchises that they just, it's just the same thing over and over again. So why not write a nine to 25? That's fantastic.

Speaker 4: (05:39)
Okay.

Jeff Brown: (05:39)
Run by. You can run by your, let me run you by it say,

Jeff Brown: (05:44)
Well, I don't actually have that great of a one, but I'll, I'm going to go forward with one that I have anyway, I hang on. I think I've read it down. Oh, so like I'm I have just like, I just told you that I have Dolly Parton the documentary on my list. I have a long list of things that I want to watch books. I want to read TV shows and movies I want to watch. And when it comes time for me to consume my entertainment, I never watch one single thing. That's on my list. And instead I watch something that I have already seen. Oh,

Jeff Brown: (06:30)
Ooh. That's that's uh, that's really interesting.

Jeff Brown: (06:34)
So literally saying to myself, come on, Gina. You've been wanting to watch and there's no reason to, it's not like it's a, I have to read a book for school. It's not like I have to watch. I can even understand it. If it was my job to review films. And I was just so sick of having to watch. It's not even that it's literally just stuff that I think would be so good. People tell me it's so good. Oh, that's the worst. If you tell me something is good, I will set. I mean, I will watch the Dolly part thing, but like nine times out of 10, if somebody says you must, I'm like, okay, then that I'm definitely never going to watch it be just because you told me I shouldn't, it's so silly. It's a childish. I don't even understand what the impetus is.

Jeff Brown: (07:17)
No, I, I hear you. And I think there's two things go. I mean, there's many things going on, but one of them again, is that the, the, the latter issue, I think, is the joining issue, right? Is it someone, someone is really like, you've got to do this thing. I think from knowing you there's a part of you. That's like, no, I don't. And I won't, uh, but not blatantly, you know, like you're not an, so you're not going to be like, no, I want to their face, but maybe in your buried mind, you're like, well, I just, I'm not gonna do what you tell me. So maybe there's that going on. But then the first part about why you don't want the list of things, it's like, maybe those things don't, you, you, you clearly need comfort. Like we all do. So you're going to things that bring you comfort. And I say, it's better to rewatch, whatever it is you rewatch versus, you know, smoking crack cocaine over again. But what kind of stuff do you rewatch? Like what, is there a theme?

Jeff Brown: (08:21)
Yeah, I'm on probably my third complete watching of the office. I have. This is and, and okay. Yeah. It's an amazing show. It's probably one of the top five comedy shows it's ever been. But like, I know it, I I've seen it. I know every episode, like I've I think, I think maybe it feels like so, so I do occasionally watch something new. I watched, I may destroy you. And it was all amazing and inspiring, but that's a good example. I mean, that's a hard show to watch in some ways, because it's just like what it says in the title. It really might destroy you so I can understand that kind of thing. But I'm talking about like silly things that are things that people say like, Oh, you got to watch it. It's so hilarious. I it's. And half the time when I do cause Aaron isn't like, he always wants to see a new thing. So if I'm watching with him, but half the time when I'm into it, I'm like, Oh, this is great. Why didn't I want to watch this, but

Jeff Brown: (09:29)
Similar thing. Yeah, yeah. I have it with, um, yeah. Miles like miles. My husband will say, say, um, right. He has a list of Pulitzer prize, winning books, and he goes down the list and we'll read them. I that's never going to happen for me. I feel like I do what I want to do. And mostly what I want to do is watch weird videos of people getting surgery, you know, like that. I mean, I think we go at our base level, especially during a pandemic when our country is just gross in so many ways, we go to what is feels like we have control over because see, like, I need to stress to you that there's no control. I mean, it's, so it's a commitment and it is work. It is work to, to watch it and to read, you know, Pulitzer prize, winning novels about the Holocaust that's work.

Jeff Brown: (10:32)
Yeah. That's, it's, that's intense work and it's true. You know, I actually really do think it has a lot to do with where our country is. And I think it has to do with like the whole known versus the unknown thing. Everything is so unknown that in some ways I'd rather just watch something that I don't, that I don't have to do any work about. I, I it's so known the last time I was really going wild with consuming new stuff was when Obama was president. I, that those years I used to read a book like every week, every week I was constantly on a new book and, and, and it, and in a way I think it's probably because things were sort of status quo. It was, you know what I mean? Like everything was fine. More or less, not everything is never fine, but you know what I mean? Like for the most part, things were comparatively. I mean, and now what, and also, I don't like the fact that I start my, I think maybe it has something to do with the fact that I start my day by reading the news. So 30 minutes after I'm awake, I'm already like, this is bad. This is terrible. And then I do my work work during the day and my chore work. So by the time of the end of the day, I just, I want to be like, I wanna, I want to evaporate

Jeff Brown: (11:54)
My brain into something. That's just, yeah. I surprised to hear you. I think that, that makes perfect sense. And I, I think that for right now that, I mean, I think it's always okay, but for right now you stick with the office. I'm going to stick with, um, Dr. Pimple popper, Mr. Mr. Wilson's nose surgery.

Speaker 4: (12:17)
Oh, wait. Not, not a pimple, but it's the bit

Jeff Brown: (12:32)
Super exciting today. And I survived theater school. We have Jeffrey, Nicholas Brown, I a three names. Cause he's very, very important. Um, isn't he, he's just he's he's uh, when I think of like a Ray of sunshine, I think of, of Jeffrey Brown, I'm going to call him Jeff Brown. Uh, but he, I don't, you know, he goes by Jeffrey Brown, you know him from he's the dad and Henry danger, which just ended, uh, what else? Beans he's um,

Jeff Brown: (13:00)
he was a blue man for a really long time group. He's a, yep. He is one of the web series called Vicarious, that won awards. I believe he's a writer.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez: (13:13)
He said he's um, what else does he, do? You know what he does drums his arse off. He's a drummer. He's just, so he's a lovely Ray of sunshine that is funny and positive. And, um, he has a really interesting, I think, uh, upbringing story. Absolutely.

Jeff Brown: (13:31)
And by the way, he has always been a Ray of sunshine. Like he has always exuded that and that he's, I think he must have just been born that way. I think some people are just born like predator naturally positive. I think so too.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez: (13:46)
I think so, too. So we're so lucky to have him Jeffrey, Nicholas Brown

Jeff Brown: (13:58)
Theater school, and we are talking about the whole life cycle of the theater school thing, or like when you decide And did you want to, to go to theater school theater school that you picked how it looks in the rear view, how it met up with expectations, blah, blah, blah, right? Yeah. So yeah.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez: (14:20)
Have at it, tell us, tell us, I mean, I know I have the benefit of going to high school with you, but I also, but, but I want to know, like, when were you like yes. Actor for me,

Jeff Brown: (14:33)
you want to know? I was, I was yes, actor early, early on, which I think was detrimental to my work creatively as an actor personally.

Jeff Brown: (14:48)
Why?

Jeff Brown: (14:49)
Well, I decided, I mean, I being a kid And being like, everyone's like, you can be whatever you want when you grow up. And I was like, well, if I could be anything I want, why not be an actor? Like what what's, what could be more fun than that? That sounds perfect. So, um, my dad took me to a lot of plays, right? Like I was exposed. I was very fortunate to be exposed to theater at a very young age. I remember we would meet the actors at, at the, at the Goodman in Chicago. Like we would, we would go and you could, the actors would come out after the kid shows much. I think we did this at DePaul. Right. We, the actors would come out and you could meet them and get their autograph. And I think I had a birthday party at one of those shows. Like, I mean, I was dead set on being an actor from literally as far as I can remember, I cannot remember. I was like, I liked music, but I like acting. And then if you're, and then I was like, sorta like acting you're you're really there's music in acting. So you're kind of, you're kind of getting all everything if you're an actor. So I was just like, this is, this is my path. So from, from very early on. So.

Jeff Brown: (15:54)
did you, did you Pick it in part, I mean, cause your, your family is very musically elite and that was a big part of your life since birth I'm. Sure. So you don't seem like you're really that into classical music as a person. So maybe you - it sounded more fun to do acting.

Jeff Brown: (16:15)
I did. I grew up in a year, right? I grew up in a really classical, um, family. My brother is still to this day, a classical musician. And, uh, he, um, uh, my father taught classical music at DePaul and my mom was a music teacher and it was definitely a way of me rebelling and sort of being like, my path is going to be different. I am, this is because it was forced down my throat so much. You know, I remember my dad being like, Jeffery, you ha what, what opera do you want to see this year? And I'm like, I don't want it. I want to watch a Jackson five cartoon and call it a day. You don't want to be doing that because I remember coming to your house and just music, music, music all the time. My dad was teaching piano out of our house. I mean, it was just like, I don't know how many times I heard the entertainer. Like that was just the background of my childhood [inaudible] but so, um, to get back to your first question, the acting thing. Yeah. So I was dead set on doing acting, and I knew I was going to go to some sort of theater school. Now my father was a professor at DePaul. Right. I did not want to go to DePaul.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez: (17:37)
I remember this.

Jeff Brown: (17:38)
Of course not.

Jeff Brown: (17:39)
I was like, anything but that my dad would just be like, no, you're going to DePaul. It's one of the greatest acting schools in the country and it's free, which is now they were right. I was wrong. I did not see that at the moment I, within at NYU, I was like, I want to go to, and they're like, Jeffrey, do you realize if you go to NYU, you are going to come out with so much debt. And I was like, I don't, you know, you cannot understand what that means when you're 17. You have no, I D I know what that actually means. It's just weird. You're just convinced that you're going to be a movie star and the debt - that'll all get worked out. It's fine.

Jeff Brown: (18:23)
Yeah, for sure. So you did apply to a bunch of schools. Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (18:27)
I applied at four schools. I applied at Juilliard, NYU, DePaul, and U of I, and I got into everything, but Julliard

Jeff Brown: (18:38)
Did you have to do so you did auditions for all of them. Oh my God. Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (18:41)
Jeffrey Jeffrey. We went together to the auditions.

Jeff Brown: (18:46)
You, me and you, me and Heather, Heather go with us too, right? Yeah. Yeah, totally. I remember. I mean, it was terrifying. Terrifying.

Jeff Brown: (18:56)
Do you remember what you did? What your monologue?

Jeff Brown: (18:59)
God, I don't. Do you do that?

Jeff Brown: (19:04)
Just a monologue. I.

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez: (19:05)
t was a monologue. I think it was a model. I thought it was cheap. Maybe it was just one monologue because we're young and they had mercy on us. But I did, I did a monologue from like some play that was totally inappropriate about a rape.

Jeff Brown: (19:22)
I know that I know what I did in the DePaul showcase. That was a huge mistake.

Jeff Brown: (19:27)
What did you do at the showcase at the showcase?

Jeff Brown: (19:29)
I did Arnold Wiggins from the boys next door, which is a mentally challenged man now in today's world, that would be in today's world. I would hope someone would be like, do not do that. But back then, there were like, great. I thought it was like, sort of like, I'm thinking like, Oh, like it's like a sketch sort of thing, but it was so random and weird that everyone, I can only imagine people were like, Is he, is he really...? Right.

Jeff Brown: (20:07)
And we only got to do one thing. So that was your.

Jeff Brown: (20:11)
What? Uh, like you're thinking about all these people, like, who's cool. What do I need in my roster of actors? Hm. I do not need that.

Jeff Brown: (20:21)
That's like a, yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (20:25)
Told me that may change the poles in there. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (20:31)
But did you, um, did you get like, did anybody call you, did you get any agents interested?

Jeff Brown: (20:39)
I did get one or two phone calls from someone in Los Angeles, like one or two. And I remember they weren't, um, they weren't a big enough deal to like well to, um, to really move there for, so I, uh, um, didn't, I just, I just called them and was like, um, um, I'm just going to go.

Gina Pulice: (21:02)
So something I really admire about you is how seriously you take your work, whatever it is. And I remember, uh, when we, uh, lived together in that warehouse with Rob, that you would diligently get up every day and practice drums for what I remember to be like four hours at a stretch, maybe, maybe twice a day

Jeff Brown: (21:25)
Easily. I looked at that as like my own graduate school drumming course. Like I was taking lessons. I was, uh, I was, I mean, I would wake up with coffee and just sit there to pad for an hour every day, easily. Just [inaudible], you know, whatever.

Gina Pulice: (21:41)
I, I don't know how many people do that. I mean, at a young age, especially, I, I, I, I don't, I mean, I don't know that much about musicians necessarily, but most people don't take their craft.

Jeff Brown: (21:56)
I still To do that. Like if I get an audition these days, you know, I'm still like, okay, everything I have falls away and I'm like, this is top priority. Let's spend all, you know, let's get these lines down. Like I want to be memorized. I like to rehearse my auditions. Um, that's just how I like it. I've, I've, I've experimented in various levels of, of rehearsal. And I've found that, that I like to be pretty. Um, I don't th the, the acting, I want to be the last thing that I have to worry about. It's more about how am I going to get there? Where's the, where am I going to park? You know, all those logistics. Um,

Jen Bosworth- Ramirez: (22:31)
So I have a question about the, something that just came up for me is, um, asking about the theater school you got there. Did you feel as though you were, um, going there, you like caved in to your parents' request to go to DePaul

Jeff Brown: (22:50)
A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I was very much so, so basically, so my parents were like, look, we're not going to allow you to go to, and we're not going to give you any money to go to N like, you cannot go to NYU. You're going to DePaul. That is it. And I was not happy about that. I wanted to get out. It was also like the theater school was very classical theater, and it was sort of that same thing of like, I wanted to do, like, like at NYU, I was going to do the experimental program. Um, and so I really felt like I was sort of, yeah. Caving in to my, to my parents sort of deal. And like every summer, the deal that the way my parents sold the deal to me is they're like, look, if you go there, you don't have to work during the summers and you can do whatever you want.

Jeff Brown: (23:38)
Oh, Oh, the rainbow,

Jeff Brown: (23:43)
It was working. And I would come of there with a little bit of money, but it wasn't like, I think the first summer at DePaul, I went away every summer, like D like the day after graduation or that school ended, I was out the door the first year I went to glacier national park for three months and worked in the park there just to get out like, so that was sort of how they sold it to me. So that was my, that was my sort of saving grace. But, you know, when you think back to the training that we had, as far as acting goes, you really are not going to, it's probably the same. I would have gotten the same deal at NYU, you know? Yes. The experimental program, I would have focused on maybe doing different works and stuff like that. But I do feel like I got, as far as acting goes, I was exposed to a number of fundamental, um, uh, concepts that have stayed with me, like in terms of getting in touch with my body and my voice, and being able to control those, which today I use in voiceover, it it's weird.

Jeff Brown: (24:46)
I don't feel like I learned how to act so much as I learned how to deeply connect to myself, which is arguably acting. Right. So DePaul was working on some like deep, deeper levels. I felt like, but I didn't really learn how to act until I moved to LA. And I was like, okay, you want to do this? Right. Okay. Now go, okay, let's do that. And I was like, and I put myself in so many acting classes when I got here. I just, like, I continued studying for so long. When I first got out here,

Jeff Brown: (25:24)
I am still constantly saying to myself, when I see a really good performance, like, Oh, that's what acting is. Like, I feel like I'm still trying to learn what it's about.

Jeff Brown: (25:35)
Every time you have to relearn every chip, because everything is so different and everything is so like, well now is it this style? Or what's the tone? And what's, there's so many different things, you know, for every show, every show, every writer has a different vision that they're trying to, you know, find. And our job is to sort of, okay, what is use all the clues that they've given us to be like, I think this is what they, you know, and then how to connect to that is always a challenge. But, um, yeah, like, like, like the, the theater school at DePaul taught me much more sort of deeper, fundamental things than actually how to get a job as an actor, because it did not do that.

Jeff Brown: (26:20)
Right. No, but it's life thing. So it taught you life things, things, I mean, everybody should learn how to relate to their body and how to use their voice and how to be.

Jeff Brown: (26:29)
And, and that there's a clock somewhere in the small of your back, somehow

Jeff Brown: (26:34)
That's going on. I forgot about the pelvic clock, pelvic clock, the clock. Okay. Wait, I want ask you a question about auditions. Do you remember the, uh, if the auditions among the schools were similar or

Jeff Brown: (26:51)
They were, I w what we did when we auditioned for theater school is I remember going to some sort of hotel. And there were in each suite was a different school. And I did NYU Julliard and all of it in one day, like one fell swoop. You went in and you did your monologue three times in three different suites.

Jeff Brown: (27:10)
My, I only did one. I only auditioned for one school. I only applied to one school and the audition was mind blowing, because even though I did drama in high school, my teacher was like the English teacher. She didn't really know anything about theater. And so my audition was in San Francisco. So, you know, I, I drove from Sacramento and David have Callie was running it. And we had to do all of these warmups and do all of these space exercises. And I'll never forget, he, he said, no, this space between your legs. I was like, Oh my God, I was so freaked out. And I left. And I said to my mom, there's no way those people would ever, I didn't know, one single thing about that before I went to that audition,

Jeff Brown: (28:10)
Jeffrey, wasn't our DePaul edition at DePaul.

Jeff Brown: (28:13)
Yes. Now that I'm remembering it, it was in that room, in that movement room. I remember that. So I guess we did Jew in the hotel and then DePaul, because we lived in Chicago, we could go to the school and audition.

Jeff Brown: (28:25)
This was similar. We had all this warmups and Murphy for us. Right. It was Rick Murphy for us, probably because David F. Kelly was in California doing Gina's. But I remember the same thing of being like, and, and granted Evanston had like a, a, more of a program, but I still didn't know what space. Oh. The only reason I knew what space object was because of pivot theater workshop, Joyce pivot. And I still was like, what is this? This is, this is, what is this? You guys both did pivot.

Jeff Brown: (28:57)
Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (28:59)
And Jeff, you did, uh, you did it like a touring thing with second city.

Jeff Brown: (29:04)
So when I was in high school, they had a high school acting training group program, um, that I did, uh, in my sophomore, junior year. And then in junior year, I got into the high school touring company, which they had at the time, which we went around to, uh, high schools and did classic second city scenes and improv stuff. And, you know, who was in, it was Brett Gelman. Do you know that actor? He is in, um, Fleabag. He plays the horrible husband and Fleabag he's in stranger things, the crazy conspiracy theorist. He's, he's amazing. Yeah. He was in that. Um, and it was, yeah. So in, in both, both of those improv training groups, space objects, and space and space in hand and all that stuff was very much. Um, so you were not surprised by all of that, that didn't throw me so much. Um, yeah. That, because I had been exposed to the improv thing through pivot at a very early age.

Jeff Brown: (30:03)
What, so how did you get, um, grapes of wrath?

Jeff Brown: (30:07)
I got grapes of wrath. Um, we have the poster right there.

Jeff Brown: (30:16)
Nice. Um,

Jeff Brown: (30:16)
Greg got great to wrath because when I was in eighth grade, I wanted an agent and my parents were like, you can get an agent in eighth grade or something like that. And I got an agent, um, and the agent said, was that a plus talent? Does that even exist anymore? No, no, no. Right. But, um, they said a good thing to do is to send your headshot out to all the theater companies in town, just so they have it. And we did, and my headshot came across the desk of Randall, Arnie, Randall, Arnie now runs the Geffin out here in Los Angeles and was a real high up Steppenwolf, artistic director type guy. Um, and the day that they, uh, someone who looked similar to me, um, was leaving to go do a show in LA. Like they were like, I can do the opening night performance with the grapes of wrath.

Jeff Brown: (31:09)
And then I'm leaving after that night to go out to Los Angeles, to shoot a pilot, like a, got my, you know, dream LA pilot thing. And so he was leaving and they needed someone to fill it. It was a one-line part. And I looked very similar to this person and they, they, I think I went down and had a meeting with them and there was maybe like two or three other kids that they were looking at. It wasn't very, you know, it wasn't like a really strenuous process and they offered me the job, but I was like, and my parents were, I told my parents, I was like, no, I want to play tackle football. I really want to play tackle.

Jeff Brown: (31:44)
Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (31:47)
Okay. But this is a really big opportunity with some really big people. And I don't know that you really want to pass on this and I'll never forget this. I was like, no, I'm going to pass. And I called up to call, um, I think it was Randall Arnie or whoever was doing the casting. And I got on the phone with them while I was on the phone with them. I changed my mind cause they were just like Jeffrey. So we're so, you know, and I just, and it was like, yeah, I'll do it in an instant, just like that. And then, you know, to this day, like I was working at Nickelodeon and one of the, the, the showrunner actually had gone to Northwestern and studied with Mary Zimmerman and knew Frank Galatian had that show in his mind was a legend in his mind. And he found out that I was in that. And he was like, you were in that, Oh my God. Like still to tell you that

Jeff Brown: (32:40)
I've heard that show come up. A number of times in the last, like five years, it comes up frequently in all different kinds.

Jeff Brown: (32:47)
Yeah. It really was an influential, um, sort of moment that solidified Steppenwolf as a theater company for sure. Um, and just the Chicago theater scene and just, you know, being a part of that, it's lucky at such a young age. I mean, when we did it, it was so much fun. I mean, it was really, really cool to get dropped off. My, my poor, my mom, there was like a carpool, there was another Evanston kid that was in it and we would carpool down there and we would hang up there at the Royal George theater. And it was, it was a lot of, it was a lot of fun. I remember thinking you were very, it was very cool when I heard about it. It was a kid that I knew that had been in a real production. Yeah. Yeah. It was. And it was, you know, and, and at the time, none of those people were really famous yet. Uh, but John Riley left to go, do, I think it was casualties of war in the middle of that in the middle of that run.

Jeff Brown: (33:45)
What did you, uh, what was your, like, did you have a good relationship with the other, with the adults? Did the adults mix in with the kids or was it

Jeff Brown: (33:55)
Oh man. Absolutely. So there was an acronym skip Sudduth, who was on a show called third watch, uh, for many, many years. And he was sort of a Chicago, he was a Steppenwolf member and he was, he made each of the kids a stage makeup kit and taught us how to do latex things and make, he made me a, how we made a Halloween mask, like a latex really fancy Halloween mask that was painted. He was so nice. I remember Eric Simon son was so nice. Gary Sinise was, so everyone was the only person that I remember being a little afraid of was Nathan Davis, who was very old at the time. And, uh, just, I think he wasn't feeling that good cause he seemed pretty cranky. Um, but, but like Terry, Kenny, I mean, all those guys were just, it sounds a nice family, like a family situation. Like it was. Yeah. And I still I've run into, I saw Tom Arwin last year and it was just like, Oh my God. And he didn't recognize me of course. But I was like, do I love doing this? I've done it to a few of those guys being like, do you remember the little blonde kid with curly hair? And they're like, ah, kind of. I'm like, what the hell is me? It's, it's, it's really, it's really neat to a durable. Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (35:13)
What was it? Do you, do you know what it was on the phone? What made you change your mind?

Jeff Brown: (35:19)
I think as I, as, as, as I look back on it, I think the excitement in the voice of the casting director, cause they thought I was calling to say, yes, I'd love to do this. You know, they had called being like we're offering Jeffrey the part. And then I was calling back to accept the part and, and, and just their excitement. They were like, so we're so excited. And I don't know if it was that as a kid. I couldn't say no to that. Like, that's very powerful. And there was, I wasn't didn't have the strength to just be like, um, no I'm going to play tackle football. But for some probably it was probably just realistically, it was more my inability to socially say no to someone that wants me to say yes, so badly in a position of power. And I just said yes and, and um, uh, really, really, really glad that I did.

Jeff Brown: (36:11)
But it's true. There's no way you could have conceived of the impact that would have had or what kind of opportunity it was. My son is into acting and every once in a while, he's like, I don't want to go to this audition. And I'm like, no, so you don't have to be an actor, but if you want to be an actor, you have to go to the audition.

Jeff Brown: (36:31)
I had that exact conversation, like, like my, my son does a little bit of voiceover and stuff like that. And I'm always like, you don't have to do this, but if you don't want to do it, it's not, it's not gonna, it's not going to really, it doesn't work that way. It's hard when you feel like it. Yeah. Yeah. It's real. It's and that's the thing with kids and acting is, is I remember working with a kid and it was, I think we were shooting Trueblood and this little kid was, who was playing my son, the objectors, like, all right. Run around in the sprinkler and just sort of play in the sprinkler. Okay. And he's like directors, like action. And the kid just bolts just runs, runs away. And they're like, what happened? And he's like, there was a B. Okay. Okay. And I remember he was a really precocious, you know, kid with a lot of energy and I was watching his onset teacher trying to explain to him that this is work and we're working now. And this kid is like, no, I have no idea what you're talking about. Right. What are you doing? There is no work.

Jeff Brown: (37:34)
Most of the time when you're around a bunch of those kids, like I have been on sets with Isaac where the kids are like, I want to go to school. I don't want to be here. You know, a lot of parents pushing them

Jeff Brown: (37:47)
Into it. Yeah. I've seen that too. And it's really

Jeff Brown: (37:50)
Okay. So you be grudgingly accepted that you're going to go to DePaul. And then how did your experience of being there match up with what your expectation was going in?

Jeff Brown: (38:03)
That's a really good question. I X, okay. So my expected, I expected my I'm to, I expected to not like it as much as I did. Um, and I think that that has to do with the fact that the people that were there, um, I made really great lifelong friends there. Um, I didn't think that I would, I instantly sort of assumed that DePaul was going to be filled with all of these actors that were wearing all black and smoking cigarettes all the time, which there certainly were that that existed, but there were other types, um, of people there that I didn't quite expect. Um, and I still think theater school, its best asset is who you meet and who you go through those trials with, because those are lifelong bonds that you make. And that's the real, um, the real sort of the, the best thing I got out of DePaul where the people that I met there.

Jeff Brown: (39:06)
Um, so I would say my expectation was that it was going to be this very, um, you know, and I went in this very sort of, you know, like, like very actory situation, which it absolutely was, but there was more to it than that, which I connected with. And I started, I remember going in being like, I'm not going to socially hang out with actors, I'm going to just go to the classes and be, that'll be my major, but I want to hang out with people outside of the theater school. And that was sort of what I, how I went and be like, I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to hang out with Nick Thorpe as much as I can because he has nothing to do with the theater school. Um, so that was

Jeff Brown: (39:48)
It wasn't set up like that. You really could. That was that you would have to work very hard to do that.

Jeff Brown: (39:53)
Yes. Yes. Because your time is so much, you have no other, there's only 24 hours in the day, but I, that, that helped. But then I met people that I wanted to hang out with at the school. So, you know, I didn't quite expect that aspect.

Jeff Brown: (40:11)
And those are people that you're all like still in touch.

Jeff Brown: (40:14)
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff Brown: (40:17)
Did you make, did you hang, you hung out with people outside of the theater school though, too. Yes.

Jeff Brown: (40:22)
Yeah. I played in a band for junior year and senior year and we were playing shows all over Chicago all the time with, you know, with, and, and that was a completely different than the theater school social scene. Uh, I remember one time I had, I had a day in, in, in, in theater school where I had a show, um, I did, I had a 10:00 AM show, like for one of the plays that we were in and then another one at night and then a gig with the band after that, at like the, at the bop shop, starting at, you know, 11:00 PM or something like that.

Jeff Brown: (40:59)
You were moonlighting as a musician while you theater school

Jeff Brown: (41:03)
And that's and that's. And I thought, wow, what a great day? This is going to be filled with all of this artistic creation and still, I, I still, I still get to have those days like that. That's still how I try to, that's my goal still to make those days where I get to do everything I like to do in one day.

Jeff Brown: (41:23)
That's very cool. Did, did any, or any of the Henry danger kids going to go to theater school, you think? Um,

Jeff Brown: (41:31)
I don't think so. I don't think so. Um, some of them may go to college. Um, right now they're all, I think kind of just taking a breath because they've been working so hard already at their young ages. Um, but I wouldn't be, I, I don't think they would go for acting if they went to college. I think they would probably go for something else just to have the college experience. Yeah.

Jeff Brown: (41:54)
Because they don't have to. I mean, they, they have,

Jeff Brown: (41:59)
Yeah, right.

Jeff Brown: (42:00)
I could see him going to like film school directing kind of like a James Franco angle. Um, but I, but I, but I don't think that, yeah, I think if they went to theater school, it would be so strange for them to have the careers that they have and be around people that want what they want so badly. That's something that's. So, you know, in the acting world is so hard for everyone. And that's why people like don't talk about their work and you know, like, because there's this pervading, um, thing of everyone wants if you're working in, you're a very successful actor, everyone, all the other actors that you hang out with on some level is like, I w I want what you have. And I think that will be really in theater school that would be amplified to the 10th degree. It would be kind of strange

Jeff Brown: (42:50)
It already. What is that? There already was that at the theater school? That's my Donnell had that thing would be where the psychic vulture.

Jeff Brown: (42:57)
Yes. And we all looked at Jonah's Avery. Like this guy has been in movies before, like he's done it. Yeah. Oh, good. He's fantastic. Tell him to make some pizza. He's got to make some better pizza.

Jeff Brown: (43:13)
He's painted his pig pizza. Pictures on Facebook are no good.

Jeff Brown: (43:16)
They're so funny. They make me laugh so hard.

Jeff Brown: (43:19)
Can we talk a little bit about, um, blue man? Absolutely. Okay. So can you tell me that sort of process for you in terms of being like, this is what I'm going to do?

Jeff Brown: (43:33)
Blue man group I had, well, okay, sure. I had a friend of that. So I, after college, after I finished DePaul, I was like, I'm going to play drums. I just want to be a drummer. I wanna do everything I can to be a drummer. And with the band that I was in and we moved and got this warehouse that you lived in with us, Gina and, um, a friend that's a lead learner told me, I do you remember that? She, she was had, she's literally said to me, one day I had a dream last night that you became that you beat out Michael Jackson for the part of a blue man in blue man group. And I opened the paper today and I saw this and she shows me open call for blue man group auditions. Yeah. And I went to the open call and it went fine.

Jeff Brown: (44:23)
I didn't really think too much of it. And then I was staying at my girlfriend at the time I was at her house. And I remember I got a call from a roommate at like one in the morning. And he's like, Hey dude, blue man group, just call, call back for you. Cause they had forgotten to do their callback calls. This is classic blue man group, you know, at the time. Cause it was, it was, it was early in the company and it was, it was a lot of fun and out there, like he was like, you gotta be at your call back tomorrow at three or something like that. And I went to the call back and I did the call back. And again, it was, um, very, you know, like they had us tell a story with your eyes. The story was, um, what to look at, look at the camera and be like, what is that?

Jeff Brown: (45:08)
And then, you know, what, what is that to, uh, Oh, it's something good too. Oh, it's something bad. No, wait, it's something good. Like something really simple like that. And so I did that and I did some basic drumming. The drumming and blue man group is very simplistic. It's not complicated. So that was as a blue man. I should say, if you're in the band, that's a completely other, uh, other story. Um, and then I didn't hear anything for a month maybe. And then they called up and they were like, Hey Jeffrey, we'd like you to come to New York for a two week long audition sort of camp type thing. And this was right at the worst time possible because the band that I was in had just finished recording a record and we were all excited and we're like, we just made our first record.

Jeff Brown: (45:55)
Like here we are like, we're about to be on the, you know, we're taking this to the next level. Um, and that summer I was supposed to kind of run this kid's camp that I've been working at. And my mom was coming out to the camp during the, the two week audition period. So I had to tell the camp, I can't be there for this. I tell my mom, you're going to have to go to camp by herself, which she did and had probably more fun there. Cause they have a week of adult camp before the kids camp. And um, she probably had more fun than adult camp without me being there. And I had to tell the band that like, Hey, I'm going to go do this. And if this happens, I'm probably not coming back. And so it was a lot on the line and I went out to the two week audition and there were six or seven of us I think.

Jeff Brown: (46:43)
And we were learning parts of the show. I mean, back then the audition process was now it's very much more streamlined and much more pared down. Um, and we got into makeup and we performed a PVC piece. Um, the opening piece of the show with the paint on the drums and stuff. And we did a crunch, which is the captain crunch bit, which has a lot of acting in it or whatever. Um, and then they, yeah, they th as each, like every day, they'd be like, we're going to keep you, we're going to happen. You're seeing guys get cut. Oh, my reality show. It literally was a reality show in Brazil. Um, and they actually found a blue man and they just put it on TV. But, um, at the end of the two weeks, I made it through the end and they were like, we'd like to hire you into training and you're still, and then you're go to training and they're like, we're not going to fully hire you until you're in the show doing well. So then training was like two months of every week. We're keeping you here. We're going to keep you here. Yeah, it was, it was, it was really, really,

Jeff Brown: (47:46)
Really training for

Jeff Brown: (47:47)
That show. Yes, we were getting, I got paid for everything you got paid for the audition. That's what I didn't realize what a big deal. I thought blue man group was some rinky-dink little, you know, off-Broadway weird show I had when I got to New York and saw their massive spaces in their massive real estate that they owned. And, and they were like, we're going to pay you $800 a week to train. I was like, what?

Jeff Brown: (48:14)
Sign me up? You were like, yes, you are,

Jeff Brown: (48:17)
Man. I was like, that's more money than I've ever made in my life. I am in. And the training was really hard, really hard, um, psychologically. And just that show is there's no way to know what that's like until you're up there because you're reacting to the audience so much that there's, there's no way to do it until you're on stage. That's why they don't hire you until you're on stage in front of people. And you can handle because the audience is the fourth character in the show. Um, and

Jeff Brown: (48:48)
So how, how do you you're that? You're at like at a hotel or something?

Jeff Brown: (48:52)
They had a, they on 12th and third on the corner of 12th and third in the East village, they had an apartment that was all blue man group people. It was like animal house. It was insane, insane. Um, because they were hiring me to open the Vegas show. Cause what happened was, is they went to all of their performance and they're like, Hey, we're going to do a Vegas show who wants to move to Vegas. And every single one of them, I think there was one person that said I'll do it. And everyone else was like, no way. And they're like, we can't have, um, untrained newbies in our biggest show ever. So they, they pushed the show back, I think by a year and just hired eight new blue men and had us train and live at this house. And we would do shows in New York.

Jeff Brown: (49:42)
And then they'd say, go to Chicago for a week and do shows there. And then we'd come back to New York and do shows there and they'd be like, go to Boston. They need someone's injured and you'd go to Boston. And you were just doing the show as much as possible to, to, to get up and running for, for Vegas. But the, the, my first show as a blue man was very, very intense. And really like when you start so in the New York show, the way the show opens, you crawl onto the stage in the pitch black, and you find your, your hand finds this flashlight and you, and you're in this little tiny box. Cause the first thing is like a shadow piece, right? So you're in this little tiny box and you know that you have a certain amount of time, like one once this, cause they have a little sign that the audience is saying, all these things, right. They call it the second sign. Hey, hello, welcome to blue mat. I promise not to take photos. I promise you no to laugh or whatever the, they have all these little bits and you're hearing that and you're in the pitch black and you've got to set up all these props. Like you've got to make sure that your sticks are ready to grab and you're, you're wearing this welding helmet. I mean, it is terrifying.

Jeff Brown: (50:50)
Can I, uh, can I ask you a question about how, uh, I'm really, really fascinated by resilience and how people get through these kinds of things? So what do you attribute not losing your mind doing during this process too?

Jeff Brown: (51:05)
Um, that's a really good question. I'm going to say I did lose my mind. There were definitely moments where I was like, I am absolutely not going to get this job. Like I, like we watched other people get cut from training that had been doing it for a month and a half. We saw that happening and you're just like, Oh my God. Like, you know what? I, I don't really know, Jen. I don't know. I just kept, I just kept going and hoped for the best. Um, I didn't stop put it that way. It didn't stop.

Jeff Brown: (51:42)
He kept moving. I kept moving.

Jeff Brown: (51:44)
Did you form relationships with the other people who are auditioning?

Jeff Brown: (51:49)
Absolutely. Still one of my best friends in the world is the guy that I went through training with. I was at the very first audition with, we live together through training. We moved to Vegas together like, Oh yeah, it was another like, it's those, those that, that life bond where you go through these sort of amazing trials,

Jeff Brown: (52:08)
It's like the army. It sounds like the armed forces.

Jeff Brown: (52:11)
Absolutely. Because you're so scared together. You're so vulnerable. You're so scared. Like, and that was like training for blue man. They were really like trying to make you as, you know, cause the whole character is in this wildly uncomfortable state for an hour and a half. That's where it lives. Like that's normal, that's base for that character. Right. And um, you, yeah, you, you really, in those spaces where you're most vulnerable and most frightened is where you form the most, the greatest friends. And I think the same thing goes with theater school because theater school is terrifying. It's scary to a say that to yourself and to the world and to other people that want to be actors, that I am an actor too. I am going to do this. I am putting every, you know, a hundred percent of my being into this endeavor. It's scary.

Jeff Brown: (53:11)
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, mortifyingly scary. So we had this long conversation with Zack helm and he's, you know, very involved with the theater school he's on the board, et cetera, et cetera. So he gave us a lot of insight about everything changed since then. And one of the major changes that was news to me is that it's not a cut program anymore. I've heard this. So, um, do you, what was your whole experience with the cut situation? Were you ever on warning?

Jeff Brown: (53:37)
Well, yes I was on warning now. See, here's where, here's where I wonder about, uh, that's a really interesting question for me because originally I didn't want to go to DePaul. The cut thing was not a factor because I didn't, if I got cut out of it, like fantastic, I'm outta here. I'm sure that's how I felt going in. And certainly for the first year I think had I gotten cut in the second year, I would have, there would have been either year getting cut would have been a hard pill to swallow any way you cut it. There's no easy way to be told. You're not good enough that without question. But my defense was like, I, I had a, I had, again that God, I was so lucky to be, to be able to be not paying for it and to be cut and to be, have spent all that money on a school would be just horrific. Um, so the cut didn't have the, the, the weight of the weight that it did for other students. Um, I, I mean, I think some people that got cut did need to be told this might not be the right profession for you. I mean, there were people that got cut and went on and had successful careers, you know?

Jeff Brown: (55:00)
Yeah. There's, there's almost no equation there because you, and maybe there's like four people from our year that are making their living doing what we went to school for. And there's way more people than that, that were cut that are making their living, doing what we went to school for. So yeah, it's there, it's there to me, there seems to be very little rhyme or reason to the whole cut system. Yeah. It didn't, I mean, it seemed like it was, it depended on who your acting teacher was and how your personality clashed or didn't with your acting teacher, how much, how much of a scholarship you were getting or not. I mean, there was all these factors. And then also I think that there's maybe another piece, cause some of the people who got cut early were really, um, had a hard time with authority. Yes. But that doesn't mean they weren't like really talented

Jeff Brown: (55:57)
Or the way or the way people looked or the way they, you know, how they carry themselves. It was just, it was, it, it did seem to me like a, a bit of a random thing, but I also, and we've talked about this and I don't know what your feeling is about it Jeffrey, but like, it's like if it was, was it scary? It wasn't scary to you at all. So this is of different for you, but, but, um, could you have done, if you were cut, would you think that you still would have been an actor I guess is my question?

Jeff Brown: (56:34)
Yes, I do. I think I would still would have been an actor. I might've been more of a drummer. Had I been cut it would've, it would've depended on because I got back into, I got really into drumming my software, I stopped. So I was a drummer. And then when I got into high school, I started to be there. I was, it was, I could be an actor that we're placed to be in. And I was like, and I think junior year of high school, I was like, I'm going to be an actor. And I remember selling drums. I was like, I don't want to drum anymore. I'm just an actor. And then sophomore year of college, there was a drum set at the house that I lived at and I started playing it again. And I was like, Oh man, this is really fun. And um, I think I might've been maybe more of a drummer. I don't know, but I still would have pursued a career in the arts I think, because that's just what I was brought up.

Jeff Brown: (57:24)
Yeah. Yeah. So one of the things that you said a while back was, um, that the theater school didn't necessarily prepare you for getting a job, which I think that's probably, that may be a universal feeling. I mean, I certainly had that. So how, how did you figure that out?

Jeff Brown: (57:44)
Um, well I left, so when I left the theater school, I went out to be in a band and we got out to San Francisco and I thought to myself, well, I should at least try to get an agent and see if I could book some acting work just to make some money, you know? And I act in the San Francisco market, I did not have a problem booking work, the industrials, just the theater training that I had. Um, it didn't like it wasn't. So the whole Hollywood, like when you get, you know, your first Holly, you know, real actual lines or sides or a script or whatever there's numbers and it just looks so confusing and so weird by going to San Francisco, um, it was a very, it was much easier to, to, to, to book work, uh, what I want to qualify, the statement that I made before.

Jeff Brown: (58:43)
So the theater school did prepare me to book work because I did work work when I, when I got out of there. But I think had I gone to Los Angeles, it would not have prepared me to book work in the, in, in a much more competitive, um, cutthroat scene. Does that make sense? Um, uh, you got your sea legs and the way that I learned when I did move to LA and started to really want to work out here is I took audition classes. I took from everyone. I was in acting class so much, like I was addicted to it. I remember I took a class where I took a class from Jeffrey Tambor actually, which was probably an a, which was an amazing class. And he was like, you need to stop going act in class.

Jeff Brown: (59:31)
She was like, you are addicted to acting class and you need to prove to yourself, you have this addiction that you're not good enough and you need to be in class to prove to yourself that you can do this constantly. And you need to get to another level of, I can do this and I don't need to prove it. And that's when you're going to start working. Um, so I, I just took classes specifically, the teach you how to audition, how to deal with action in the action lines that when you have no one to punch or what to do when there's five characters in the seat and, you know, just those technical things. Um, we didn't get told that really. I remember there was a class that was like, here's how to get a headshot and stuff. But, but also there's also this, when I was at DePaul, everything was sort of in a, like, it wasn't real, it was when real life starts, but you're still not needing that.

Jeff Brown: (01:00:35)
When I moved to LA, it was dire. It was learned to do this or find something else to do that simple. Right. It, what I really wanted to know how to do this really badly when I was at DePaul and in theater school, I didn't have that fire under me to like, want to learn. And it wasn't until I really wanted to learn that I really did learn really. There's something about where you're at, that needs to sort of, um, accept, you know, how seriously are you going to take, take stuff. And, and I, and I took it seriously, but not on the level of like, I have to, I have to learn this right now,

Jeff Brown: (01:01:16)
But did you do, I thought you were going to say, you did get on warning. I did get on warning.

Jeff Brown: (01:01:23)
Absolutely. Got on warning. David app called me, sat me down. And he was like, look, you're this long hair kind of whatever, who cares kind of a hippie, like you need to, you need to really start showing up a lot more and putting a lot more care into this, or you will be cut and you're now on warning. I was like, Oh, okay. And then Don Elka was like, I'm going to put you in a play and you're going to cut that hair. And he did, and I had this lovely. Was that, uh, it was

Jeff Brown: (01:02:02)
What's an Andrew please in the line? No,

Jeff Brown: (01:02:06)
It was, uh, it was a, um, it was, uh

Jeff Brown: (01:02:14)
That's. Okay. It wasn't a kid show. No, it

Jeff Brown: (01:02:17)
Was a workshop. It was a, that was, um, Sean Spratt was in it. Um, it was, it was like, um, Oh my God. Yes, yes. British or no, it wasn't, it wasn't um, that was Patrice. Yes. Patrice to the pitcher stuff. Um, it was, yeah, it was, uh, it was a British, there was a British workshop, um, importance of being earnest who ask something like that. It wasn't that, but something like that. Sure.

Jeff Brown: (01:02:53)
Uh, Oh God, I'm just going to ask you. Oh no, Don. I was just going to say God blessed on Elko. Uh, he seems to really see right to the center of people. And David did too. I mean, my warning conversation with him was very similar, which was, you know, the way you're approaching, like your, your style and your life. Like, it's like, you don't want to get your hands dirty and that's not gonna work here. You you're going to need to like wear sweat pants and put, not put makeup on and like roll, roll around on the floor. Yeah. So wait, how did, why were you talking to David if Rick was your teacher?

Jeff Brown: (01:03:36)
This was sophomore year, I think. Okay. I don't know how I ended up in his office, but because my acting teacher was Rick Murphy freshman year. I think I had David out Collie second year. No, I had Don Elko second year.

Jeff Brown: (01:03:53)
Yeah. Well, no, we had the same acting teacher for two years. Anyway.

Jeff Brown: (01:03:59)
Maybe we had Rick Murphy for two years. Is that right?

Jeff Brown: (01:04:02)
I think so. I don't know our sections. Yeah, because I never had David F. Kelly and I was with you first year. Yeah. I, we had a special interests.

Jeff Brown: (01:04:13)
Maybe that could have been it.

Jeff Brown: (01:04:17)
I, cause I think I don't really, I don't know Rick very much, but I doubt he would be delivering news like that. You know what I mean? Was he the kind of person who would sit you down and talk, talk about how you as a person were getting in the way of you as an actor?

Jeff Brown: (01:04:33)
No, Rick Murphy would sort of play with the light switch and go,

Jeff Brown: (01:04:36)
He did, that's what he did Jeffrey. He said what I, what to sit for my warning. And he said, what sign are you? And I was like, Oh no. I said, I'm a, I'm a Libra. And he's like, Oh, well, this makes perfect sense. And I'm like, I don't,

Jeff Brown: (01:04:51)
I think about it. And you see it from the perspective now it's so fascinating because it's so overwhelming and huge when you're there. And when you see it now in the context of, Oh, there's all these theater schools and there's so many people want to be actors. And there's so many actors that didn't even go to theater school. Like it's a very, you know, but, but they're training you for the stage. That's their thing is that they are training you for the, this. And they're about that. Like at most of the conservatories, they're like, we are giving you a theater stage training. Um, and I was certainly more prepared to go to an audition for a play than I was for a television show or movie or whatever. But I would like to do a play.

Jeff Brown: (01:05:37)
Yeah, you should. I think it will be really fun to go back and like figure out who you are now. I mean, that's one really interesting thing maybe about acting in general. I don't know. I never acted for the screen, but certainly acting in theater is you do have to check in with yourself about like, where are you at emotionally? Like how far have you grown compared to your character? Or where do you, where are you at with your life choices? I find it to be like an intensely psychological, you know, personally psychological experience.

Jeff Brown: (01:06:08)
Absolutely. I always felt like theater was like the greatest of the psychological adventures because you're really trying to, not only, you're trying to figure out who this person is, but then you're trying to be that person and transform yourself into that person. Um, which is really interesting on so many levels, because then it brings it to who you are and what similarities and differences that you have and all that.

Jeff Brown: (01:06:35)
Do you do that as much with like, did you do that on Henry danger? I was my dad. You just for your dad. Okay.

Jeff Brown: (01:06:42)
Yeah. I, I drew so much from my own father, um, because that character was, my dad was wacky and crazy and this character was wacky and crazy. Um, one thing that I did not learn at DePaul, uh, specifically was to use my, my, my real life as, um, fuel, you know, I learned that Jeffrey Tambor actually was the greatest teacher of that. Like you use your life, use your life. I remember teachers saying specifically it was, so it was confusing. I was so confused about all of the techniques and methods.

Jeff Brown: (01:07:20)
I agree to this day, if somebody says, you know, so did you guys study like ski? I'm like, yeah, we learn to shove space between our legs and other things. But like, I can't either. I can't say, Oh yeah, that's Spolin that's status last week.

Jeff Brown: (01:07:42)
I just remember being highly confused and not really understanding what an intention, what, like what, like, it seemed like so confusing where it's really not that confusing.

Jeff Brown: (01:07:56)
Well, you know, it's not confusing to you now though, because if I speak for myself just in my life, my head was so far up my at that page. I just had no idea about how are you, how am I going to learn intention for a character when I don't, I don't approach my own life with any intentionality, which is an argument for, you know, like in some theater schools, I've heard of people talk about going for theater school and being told you need to go into therapy because you, your psychology is really impeding your acting and like you have this potential, but you're all up in your head. Right. Um, I think that's actually illegal, so they don't do that anymore, but it makes sense why they would, because if you, if you can't and I guess that was the point of all the voice and body work was helping you try to integrate like yourself and who your self was. Our conversation with Zach was mind-blowing because he apparently came home to the theater school with all of that, like self-awareness. And because of that, he was able to like pan back and see what was going on and make decisions if he liked it or not.

Jeff Brown: (01:09:09)
Wow. Now that's yeah. Zach is highly intelligent, highly evolved. Uh, who, yeah, I mean, I mean, I remember thinking that he, like, he had something going on at the theater school that other people did not, he had just an awareness, he just did. He just, he sort of operated as like this outlaw on the outside of things. Um, and he really seemed to know himself and know who he was and what he wanted to do. Um, yeah, I did not have that again. That's why I think I learned more about acting when I was much older. And when I came to Los Angeles, when I was 28 and was like, okay, I really got to learn this. I learned so much more about it then. Um, when I was in, in, in, in theater school, because you are

Jeff Brown: (01:09:57)
Yeah, 17 years old, 18 years old. What the, I mean, I guess that also leads me to ask you, like, if, if I don't know if, if your son or if, if someone's comes to you and says, I want to go in there 16, you know, there say I want to go to theater school. What are you, what are you Jeffrey Brown? What are you saying to them?

Jeff Brown: (01:10:15)
Well, I, it's interesting because I, because as my son gets older, I, you know, I, I do think about like, I really do want him to go to college and study something just because I think it's really important to have that in-between land of child life and real life and being with other people going through that. I mean, can you imagine like graduating high school and being like, okay, you're on your own, go for it. No way you need that support. Um, you want to go through that with other people? Um, again, I really think college is about who you are with. Not so much what you're studying. That's why picking your school's important. Cause you want to pick the school. That's going to have the same people. You know, you want to find your people in college. That's what you want. Right. Um, I think that's the biggest takeaway.

Jeff Brown: (01:11:14)
So I would say to go to absolutely go to theater school, just go to some type of school. Don't try to be an actor straight out of the gate, unless you've been doing it already for 10 years. And that's, and that's a weird thing too, because I see how the only chance you can just walk into Hollywood and say, hi, I'd like to try is when you're 10 years old, that's the only time they go. Sure. What do you have? We'll we'll see it. We'll, we'll give you a shot. And as soon as you turn 18, it's like, well, what have you been doing for the past 15 years? How come? Because there's 5,000 other kids over here that already have resumes this long and

Jeff Brown: (01:11:56)
Insane.

Jeff Brown: (01:11:58)
I had that realization when I moved out here and I was like, Oh my God. Cause I looked at the people booking the jobs that I wanted to and I went, Oh, they've got 20 years under their belt at 27.

Jeff Brown: (01:12:11)
Right. That's so crazy. But that's the truth of it. Yeah. Yeah. So how are you, what are you doing now that there's nothing going on or you're doing your own thing? You're writing your own title.

Jeff Brown: (01:12:26)
Yeah. I've been writing, writing a lot. Um, uh, voiceover I've been doing, you know, continuing with voiceover auditions and booking jobs there when I can. Um, and that's it and playing drums every like every day, my day is like, get up, work out, do my voiceover auditions, right. For a couple hours, you know, play drums for an hour. And then dinner time. Like that's pretty much every single day. Um, uh, I really, I really miss the, the, the old, the old world. Um, but yeah, that's, I mean, work production starting to come back here. So auditions are coming back. Commercial auditions are coming back. Um, the ethical auditions are coming back, all that stuff. Uh,

Jeff Brown: (01:13:12)
You've been at the same time, as they're saying that aren't your numbers still real bad.

Jeff Brown: (01:13:17)
Yeah. But, but basically, um, I think that the major deal is that the unions and everyone has come together on the protocols and they've put together protocol sheets, and then they now have a system in place to deal with this, which has opened up the, um, the flood Gates for production to begin again. And I think there's a huge backlog of production that is going to explode, even if the numbers do go up, um, unless we go into a full on shutdown mode. Again, I don't see that production would end because I mean, their procedures are so stringent and so strict.

Jeff Brown: (01:13:59)
Like you have to get tested every day and stuff like that.

Jeff Brown: (01:14:01)
I think every, if not every day, a couple of times a week, there's masks everywhere. There's, you know, everything has, everything has a system, every department, wardrobe, makeup, actors, directors, everyone has this specific system that they must adhere to. Um, my wife actually is working this week and she was like, the stage was so warm because they're keeping the doors open. Whereas normally those soundstages are for reasons, but because she was rehearsing, um, they were keeping the doors. It's like all these weird things like, Oh yeah, I guess that's she had to print out her own script. They wouldn't print out a script, like all these little shifts to bring her own makeup. No, she doesn't have to bring her own makeup, but I guarantee you that the makeup person is very, as it's best for her has a system. Yup. Oh yeah. And everyone's because we all want to work. So everyone's just like fine, whatever we have to do to get through this. We don't want to be out of work anymore. We'll go through whatever hoops we have to, you know, run through. Wow.

Jeff Brown: (01:15:09)
Jeff, thanks. He's awesome for having me. It's so good to see you both. Yeah. I survived theater school. It's an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez and Gina bleachy are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina. [inaudible] follow us on Instagram at undeniable writers or on Twitter at undeniable. W R I T one. That's undeniable, right without the E one. Thanks.