Author Phoebe Lovatt recently wrote "Work Ethics: 20 ideas for 2020 and beyond," which prompts us to question our relationship to productivity, work, and creativity. Phoebe and I talk about the necessity to imagine a new society beyond capitalism and mutual exploitation. Through the writings of Naomi Klein and Joseph Campbell, she fathoms what these new myths' foundations for our productive self could look like, especially when it comes to disentangling our identity with our working self. It's time to think of our own identity as transcending all capitalistic-related categories such as work, salary, hierarchy, and imagine new forms of achievements, more immaterial, or more emotional. All music: (c) High Sci-Fi original interludes, except intro and outro: (c) Isao Tomita's "Clair de Lune" (1974).