HOST
Follow Jesse Oxford, Founder and Creative Director of OX Creative
@jesseoxford
@oxcreates
www.oxcreates.com

GUEST
Follow Benjamin Von Wong
@vonwong

INTRO:
JO: I first met Ben at the Story Conference in Nashville. He and I were both presenting there. And later on that year, we had the opportunity to collaborate together on an art installation. And as we spent time in our studio and here in Chicago, in between all the days of fabricating, of just trying to figure out creative challenges and just spending a lot of hard work and trying to build this thing. One thing that stood out to me about Ben was that he didn't just want to create work that he was proud of, but he wanted to make work that really made a difference in the world.

QUOT-ABLES:

BVW: There's a difference between output and outcome. And so when a brand hires a storyteller to tell a story, they're looking for an output. They just want that piece of content that they can spread. But I think when you get into the impact space and you start caring deeply about what that piece of work is going to do, it doesn't become about the output, it becomes about the outcome.

So let's take a company, Patagonia, for example. It's got this amazing brand that has done great things for the environment, they're all about environment first. But besides the people who buy a Patagonia branded jacket, to say, "I care about the environment and my money is going a little bit further, because I know it's being reinvested into something that I love, the outdoors." Why have stronger communities not spawned as a result of that?

JO: Robert McKee, he wrote the book, Story, and he had a quote that says, "Stories are the currency of human relationships." And when I heard that for the first time, I was like, "Wow, stories is a currency." Is it true that there's no poverty when it comes to stories? And if that's a currency that, everybody's on the same page, everybody's equal. What comes to your mind?

BVW: That's interesting. I think, my first reaction was actually the opposite of yours. So your reaction was, "If we all have the power to tell stories, then we're all equal." I went the opposite direction and went, "Well, we all might have the power to tell stories, but not all stories get the same chance to be heard. Not all stories get the same opportunities." And in which case, distribution matters, people with louder voices get heard more, not because they're better storytellers, but just because they're louder or better at using the systems in which they take place.

BVW: I do think there is the common thread, regardless of language, is emotional timber, right? We have all felt love. We have all felt loss. We have all felt grief. And so if you do have the opportunity, let's remove those polarizing elements for a second, there is truly an opportunity to connect. Should we take the time or have the opportunity to, and from there can come a sense of understanding and there is no better way to do that, than story, right?

BVW: There's a difference between output and outcome. And so very much when a brand hires a storyteller, a studio, or otherwise to tell a story, they're looking for an output, they just want that piece of content that they can spread. But I think when you get into the impact space and you start caring deeply about what that piece of work is going to do, it doesn't become about the output. It becomes about the outcome. So what is the outcome of the project that you've created? How has that moved the needle in one direction or another, and why? And I think that question is the one that's missing from the general narrative. People focus very much on the output, companies measure outputs. They're all quantitative, and occasionally qualitative, but very much still driven by output as opposed to the outcome.