Kimberly Grigg welcomes Judy Pickett and Hilaire Pickett Martin, the mother-daughter duo behind Design Lines, to the show. Judy and Hilaire share how they came to work together and the very individual approach they take with clients: listening and trying to interpret exactly who the client is through design.
Judy Pickett founded Design Lines in 1979 and while she says she likes to have a historic nod in her work, she stresses that her design aesthetic is primarily informed by who the client is and the lifestyle they prefer to live. Hilaire, who joined Design Lines in 2008, describes their process as being ‘lifestyle advocates’ and wants functionality to play as large a role as beauty in their designs. They both share how COVID has impacted their business and influenced their design work through sourcing challenges, both for better and worse.
Kimberly explores color with Judy and Hilaire, breaking down how they bring color into projects, and they each detail not only things they look for in a good design, but how to accessorize, the versatility of good paint, and what inspires their own personal homes. There is much to learn about communication, style, and business from this mother-daughter team, who celebrate how important a beautiful life is with Kimberly.
About Judy Pickett and Hilaire Pickett Martin:
Judy Pickett started her career right after graduating from Florida State University almost 47 years ago. After getting her feet wet for 6 years learning from other professionals, she started Design Lines in 1979, knowing that interior design was her life-long passion. Her involvement with ASID (American Society of Interior Designers) began on the local level in 1989 and culminated in positions on the national level on the Education and Training Advisory Council, Knowledge Resource Council, and a trustee on the ASID National Board. Her latest involvement is Chair of the ASID Foundation.
Judy’s commitment to the profession took her to several positions in CIDA (Council for Interior Design Accreditation) from University site visitor to a member on the CIDA accreditation commission. One of the achievements she is most proud of is her induction into the ASID College of Fellows in 2005. Election to the ASID College of Fellows, the Society's
highest honor, is bestowed on less than 1% of the ASID Membership. Judy pulls a lot of inspiration from nature and loves to share her knowledge with future generations.
Hilaire Pickett Martin is a graduate of Elon University. Since joining her mother at Design Lines in 2008, she has handled Design Lines’ communications and applies her enthusiasm and passion to promoting the firm. In 2013 Hilaire stepped into additionally overseeing all the accounting and day-to-day operations of Design Lines. Described as hard-working and very organized, Hilaire enjoys the team atmosphere at Design Lines, the pulling together everyone does to make a project a success. She is proud to work alongside and learn from her mother.
Resources discussed in this episode:
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Transcription Hilaire Pickett Martin 00:00
Since COVID, there's a big emphasis on the home, making it more personal, because we've had this time to really sit in our homes. I mean, and also the functionality. And so I think there's a bigger importance that maybe we didn't place on that before COVID.
Kimberly Grigg 00:17
Welcome to Decorate Like A Design Boss, a podcast for design lovers who want to create beautiful spaces in their very own homes. My name is Kimberly Grigg, and I'm a professional interior designer who teaches design lovers like yourselves how to decorate, and when I say decorate, I mean decorate like a design boss. If you're ready to create a space that your family loves, and your neighbors can't stop raving about, well buckle up honey, because it's time to design. Hello, my design lovers and design enthusiasts, and I have a treat for you today. I am talking with Judy Pickett and Hilaire Pickett Martin who are a mother daughter duo. And they have a business in Raleigh, North Carolina called Design Lines. And I met them, I don't really know and probably, Judy, we shouldn't reveal how many years ago it was. But I met them at a conference. And if I'm not mistaken, Hilaire, I think you had just graduated from college?
Hilaire Pickett Martin 01:26
Yes. So that would probably be 08.
Kimberly Grigg 01:29
It's been a while. You know, because we're in North Carolina, South Carolina, I've kept up with you for years through social media and various things. And I've always admired your design aesthetic. And I've also always admired that you're a mother daughter duo. I think this is so cool. And I want to hear about it because I have this secret dream that, out of three girls and three boys, that one would want to work with me. And yet I have zero. So tell me about this mother-daughter team and how that worked.
Judy Pickett 02:07
I gotta go first, Kimberly, because she at a very early age, maybe four, came in, put her hands on her hips, and said 'I don't want to be a designer because I don't want to work late and I don't want to have to deal with people'. Just like that. And she was just adamant. But she grew up and she had lots of talents to offer and...
Hilaire Pickett Martin 02:33
Well I remember coming in after school and seeing sales reps who now, you know, I'm in the business so I see them now, so they've known me since I was a little squirt. So that part's really, really cool. I didn't think I was going to be working with my mom, I think right out of college, my degree is in communications from Elon, and so I thought I was going to do the big city PR thing, go to New York, go to Chicago, work in an agency. But I said, I don't know about that. I had a girlfriend of mine who I studied abroad with and she came down and she said 'Hilaire, look what you have, like, this is super cool. Why don't you work for your mom?' And I was like, well, I could try. I'm not going to be a designer. I didn't get my degree in interior design. So I said, 'Well, Mom, what do you think about, like, communications, doing your website? Maybe getting a blog up and going?' She was like, 'Well, okay, fine. We'll see what, you know'
Judy Pickett 03:34
We had none of that at the time.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 03:35
Yeah.
Kimberly Grigg 03:37
Yes, when we met that was all just starting, Judy. And, like, I remember Hilaire, that was kind of one of her goals with your company was to kind of get all that started. And I was envious of that too.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 03:51
Basically, we just had, you know, we were willing to, you know, try it and fail if it didn't work out, you know. But I started out doing communications, and then over the years I've taken on more responsibility. I learned about project management, I learned about operations. And then, now I pretty much oversee all the business side, all the communication side, working with vendors, working with clients to set up and sell, so I can't do my job without the designers and the designers can't do their job without me. So it's an ebb and flow.
Kimberly Grigg 04:24
And I imagine, too, especially when you are working with someone as a mother-daughter team, having those defined roles probably aids in how it all flows. So do you disagree ever?
Hilaire Pickett Martin 04:38
We do, we have our moments, but I think it's respectful.
Judy Pickett 04:42
We try to take it outside.
Kimberly Grigg 04:46
Good idea.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 04:47
No, but honestly, I would say 95% of the time we're great. You know, we might have a mom-daughter moment where she's telling me brush my hair before an important meeting or podcast or...
Judy Pickett 05:00
Just like sass, you know how they do?
Kimberly Grigg 05:02
Yes, I do. Three daughters and definitely, like, whoa, and, you know, you can't live with them and you can't live without them kind of thing sometimes.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 05:12
Yeah, so there's a time or two where there's some sass between us. But -
Judy Pickett 05:18
I think for a person her age, her work ethic is, like, phenomenal. I mean, I wouldn't, expect that necessarily. Actually, my whole team is in their 30s. One is approaching 30. But they all have extraordinary work ethics.
Kimberly Grigg 05:37
Like, that's the key in today's time, I think, and it is hard to find. And, you know, like, Judy, you're one of the probably the most decorated designers I know. I mean, you're president of this, and president of that, and this award and that award, and all this, like all this great education and all of these accolades. So when you do hire for your firm, as a designer, are all of your designers equally as educated? I mean, is that an important requirement? Or is it more work ethic? Or is it both? How does that work for you?
Judy Pickett 06:14
No, they have to have the education. North Carolina just got licensure for interior designers. So they're in the process of taking NCIDQ. Yeah. So we're anxious to see how that's going to unfold.
Kimberly Grigg 06:29
Yeah and I'm sure South Carolina will be right behind that because typically South and North follow each other in those kinds of things. So that'll be very interesting. And so Hilaire, I know you handle more operations and the business side of things. And so how are things right now with supply chain? How are you, like, how are you responding to all of this, I hope you have some tips for me, because it is tough.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 06:55
So I think it is tough, but I think there's multiple layers. First and foremost, we always are upfront with the client, we don't guarantee anything anymore. We, if someone does have a deadline, we will be very clear what could realistically happen and what cannot. On proposals we say, you know, this is you want this chair, it's gonna be 28 weeks around to get your products. So we're very clear in that communication to the client. You know, as we're working with vendors, I do expediting, which basically means every other week, I'm checking on all of our orders, I know things move, then move and shift constantly, so it's just, it's almost one of those things where you have to get accustomed to all the flexibility, like you have to get used to the flexibility. But I do expediting, I have help, you know, our intern helps me with that, too.
Judy Pickett 07:52
All of us pitch in.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 07:53
Yeah. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. She helped some, everybody, the team recently just helped, because we're getting to the point where we have mass projects where it just requires so much detail following up with vendors.
Kimberly Grigg 08:06
You know, I think long gone... is it's also, I think, difficult to let go of the time when we could pull a rabbit out of a hat. And we could, you know, just make something work, kind of thing, or get a vendor to pull a favor, or whatever. I mean, Judy, you and I have been in this business forever. And, you know, it was not unheard of for me to call a rep and say, 'Hey, listen, can you just, like, slide that on the truck and, like, I can get it Thursday' and like that happened. And you know, I have all of the delivery people in my phone, like, you know, 'hey, Ricky, can you bring this on Thursday?' And, you know, tons of things happened, and we can't do it anymore. That is a whole different thing. Are you all finding that you are using already made goods and doing things like re-upholstering or repurposing or revamping? Or are you still doing mostly just orders like we always have?
Judy Pickett 09:06
Well, we are doing orders just like we always have, but what I find really interesting is what's old is new again. And it's generational.
Kimberly Grigg 09:18
And I think that COVID has, has prompted that. And I know for me at market now, I hang out a lot in the antique center when I used to not or I had kind of gotten away from that. And now I'm, you know, I'm even trying to source things that I can get. And I do have a fantastic upholsterer, who just rebuilds for me, and quality from the beginning. And then he ups the quality or repositions what's inside and it turns out to be a gorgeous product that someone doesn't have to wait 28 weeks for from time to time.
Judy Pickett 09:55
Yeah, and there's a dealer here that has beautiful designer and high end furniture on consignment. Because either people are downsizing or they're getting rid of what they had in. So I actually have found a couple of great things in that with those ladies. And they have found things. I mean, I kind of have had to shift my thinking. I think people are also shifting their expectation about the look, I think they are accepting more antiques, they are - especially I think it's generational, I think the younger people, the use/reuse kind of mentality has kind of seeped into their consuming of furnishings and household goods.
Kimberly Grigg 10:44
Yeah, I'm kind of glad too, because I think for a while we were really drifting into disposable furniture. You know, things were cheap. They were cheaply made, they were, like, the quality... it was hard to design in that genre because we had to add extra polish to make those cheapy things look better. COVID did us favors but not so much.
Judy Pickett 10:45
Yeah, they would buy, oh, we're, we just want to buy this and use it and it doesn't matter. You know.
Kimberly Grigg 11:17
We'll throw it away in three years. We don't care. Yeah, we'll just change our style. Yeah, we'll just flippantly pick a style, because we can change, because we didn't spend so much money on it, where you and I, Judy, you know, I think I'm correct in saying this, you know, we grew up when you when you made an investment, like a Taylor King sofa, you're going to have that forever. And so you carefully select it and you carefully choose your upholstery, you know you can re upholster and you probably would instead of discard. Some of these sofas and things that are purchased on that lesser level are, why spend the money on that kind of fabric? And, you know, that amount of fabric and why spend the money on an upholsterer when it's kind of junk to begin with. And so I feel that there is a shift in the marketplace. And I am really happy about that, really. So let's talk a little bit about aesthetic, just kind of switching gears a little bit. And either one of you can answer this, but how do you describe your design aesthetic? Like what, what's your look? Or do you have a look? Or do you have a philosophy?
Judy Pickett 12:27
I don't know that I have a look. Some people tell me I do. But my philosophy is it has to be grounded in something historic. Whether it's traditionally historic, or contemporary, or modern. But it has to have a sense of authenticity about it, it can't be just, like you say, thrown together from furniture stores, or the big box stores, and it looks like it has a soul, has, you know, you want to hold on to it, it speaks to you. Most of that does not speak to you. So my philosophy is, I listen carefully and then after that, try to totally interpret what the client is trying to visualize, and maybe take it up a couple notches. But it has to have their personality and a sense of authenticity.
Kimberly Grigg 13:21
I see that, I see that. I was scrolling your website and your projects, and of course, your Instagram and all of that. And, and I do see that, like I feel a historic nod. But I don't feel that it's stuffy. I feel that it's current and edgy and even collected a little. And I think that's very refreshing. And especially you, like me, we're in the south. And there is a little history that goes along with that for most of my clients. Like, you know, somebody will take a walk on the wild side and we do an all contemporary life. But that's not the everyday for me. Maybe it is for you, I don't know, but it's not every day. It's more the other, the other way.
Judy Pickett 14:07
It's interesting in Raleigh, people are coming from everywhere. And we have so many transplants. There is a core group of, you know, folks that have been here for a long, long time, but it's hard to find those folks that grew up here. There's some... so these transplants are actually bringing a more contemporary aesthetic with them.
Kimberly Grigg 14:29
A little vibe, yes, and I've noticed that more and more too since COVID. Because we're getting so many transplants, people want to be near the coast, people want to be able to go outside in case we ever have this kind of pandemic again, and yada yada. So, tell me, for my listeners' benefit: so you guys get a client, you got an empty space, then what happens, like, what's it like? What's next?
Judy Pickett 14:59
I really, I mean, you have to listen, you have to try to interpret. There's a lot that they say and a lot that they don't say, you have to be observant. I mean, the space usually isn't totally empty or the home isn't totally empty. And you have to get a sense of their lifestyle. Do they take care of things? Do they appreciate fun things? Do, you know, are they just pretty loungy and, you know, kind of very carefree? And that's a whole different approach. So you just have to really tune in.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 15:32
We say, a lot of times, too, we're lifestyle advocates. And we understand human behavior. I was talking to some college students yesterday on a panel discussion, and, you know, telling them about that, is, you know, that's an important aspect, I think, as a designer you have to have. You know, if someone is 5'2", for example, and can't reach high up cabinets, maybe in the kitchen they need to be - the cabinet drawers need to be more on the lower level. Or you have three kids and a dog and you need durable, you know, fabrics or things that are not gonna stain or soil or easily clean up. So there's, I think there's a lot of things that as designers we really have to be aware of. And so I think, once we get to that point where we listen, we understand the lifestyle of our client, then we start coming together in the creative process. There's probably, I can't even count on my hand how many projects that are not team related, like we work in teams all the time. We find that the creative process is very strong in that regard. So we're working, whether it's pulling fabrics and the design together, or there might be a lead designer, and then the other designers help support. And what that looks like could be behind the scenes, it could be, you know, people meeting while Judy might be traveling. So it depends. Every project is a little bit different. But the the common thread is that it's team oriented, I sort of touch the process after we get proposals and deposits, and then I work from that to installation. So the designers are there through that. But I think it's really, too, understanding priorities for clients. I think the home has become... since COVID, there's a big emphasis on the home, making it more personal because we've had this time to really sit in our homes. I mean, and also the functionality. And so I think there's a bigger importance that maybe we didn't place on that before COVID.
Kimberly Grigg 17:36
Sure. And I think sometimes to your point, Hilaire, you know, clients don't always understand, and it is our job to teach them. They don't understand how important their lifestyle is. I think sometimes they go into this a little blindly, thinking, I just want it to be beautiful. And if there is someone out there listening, who is going in alone, and they're doing their own thing, I, like you, can't emphasize enough you need to do your homework about your life, and how you really want to live before you ever look at the first object or item. And, like, I'm working on an oceanfront project right now that is beautiful. We've built the house, it's beautiful. But I have to keep in mind that there's three busy girls that live in the house and that it can't all just be beautiful. It has to function plus we have a big ocean to live with. And the ocean's hard on things.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 18:44
Yeah, the salt, the wind.
Kimberly Grigg 18:46
Yeah, you've really got to be careful. And outdoor furniture, you know, I'm terrified. And I'm drilling a company about will this last? What is your guarantee? What is your warranty? What is your..? Because I don't want to be back in three years I want this to withstand. So I think sometimes careful planning is the best first step. And it sounds like you guys sort of approach the same way. So let's talk a sec about the B word: budget. Everybody sort of seems to have one of those. And I'm wondering, like, how do you - and again, I think that often, clients and people that are decorating for themselves, don't really have a clue as to what things cost, even my own husband. He said to me, we were doing a personal bathroom renovation, he's like, 'Well, we don't really need to do this. We don't really need to do that, we don't' and then the things he wanted to do, and I pointed out what the cost was. He immediately discounted that in his head and I'm like, 'Honey, it doesn't work like that. Things cost what they cost.' So how do you guys help maneuver and help a client understand, what their budget should be, not necessarily what they want it to be. Or maybe your clients are all better. And they just say, 'Here's my checkbook, spend my money.'
Judy Pickett 20:13
No, not, we have some that are not as budget conscious. But there are, everybody has a limit, right? I mean, there's not an unlimited budget ever. So sometimes if they make a list of everything they want, I'll start to actually itemize and put numbers to it. Oh, you want to sofa? Well, and they'll tell me what they want. And I'll say, okay, that'll be between this and this. And I'll start giving them ranges. And so they'll have a low and a high. And I'll say, we'll probably fall somewhere in that number. And I just do a quick cost analysis for them.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 20:50
And I think too, it's an eye opening experience, because when someone says, 'Well, how much on average does a sofa cost?' And I said, 'Well, that's all relative', because I could give you a beautiful 84 inch sofa with just, you're gonna put your fabric on there. And it could be anywhere from $2 to $4,000. Or we could do a custom sofa with a fabric on there and it could be $10,000. I mean, it's all of how much the client wants to spend, or how much we call it - budget, when we talk about budget, or when we have to look at numbers - we say we need to value engineer. Like what do we need? What do you want to splurge on and what do you, not necessarily don't want to splurge on, but maybe not cost? Or what's important.
Judy Pickett 21:37
What's important to you? I mean, they say, 'Well, I don't know what my budget is.' And I say, 'Well, if you send me out to buy a car, I can buy a $15,000 car, or I could buy a$150,000 car.'
Kimberly Grigg 21:49
Great analogy.
Judy Pickett 21:50
I need to know. They're both cars, they both get you around.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 21:56
So we kind of help them through that if they are just kind of in that discovery area.
Kimberly Grigg 22:04
And so, do you have any tips for people on things they can do that are lower budget, but have a nice impact? That make things look a lot better? Or that look more expensive?
Judy Pickett 22:22
Well, you know the easy answer to that, Kimberly. It's paint.
Kimberly Grigg 22:28
Yeah, for sure.
Judy Pickett 22:29
That's the one thing that has the biggest impact for the lowest cost.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 22:35
For sure.
Judy Pickett 22:35
And all the stick on things, you can, they can get a really good idea.
Kimberly Grigg 22:39
And even doing things with paint - and, you know, with YouTube and the internet and all the tools that we have available - paint, I used to say to people all the time, paint some stripes, because at least you'll have some movement. And you will, like, it's two cans of paint. So we've spent less than $50. And, you know, in a Saturday, and we had to tape some things off, but now you almost have instant texture. And what a bang for the buck. I think that is a really great, great idea. So do you have things that every room must have? Like, are there three things that you think hmm, every room needs this.
Judy Pickett 23:23
Good lighting, good levels of lighting, one comfortable chair. It can all be pretty, but there has to be at least one or two comfortable, really comfortable chairs. And I think it has to have the right balance of color. I mean, it could either be no color or it could be full of color, but it just has to be the right combinations of color.
Kimberly Grigg 23:51
So since you brought up color, one of my favorite topics. And I see that your work really does run the gamut. Like you have some colorful things. I guess one of the things I noticed from your site is that you are very individual. Like, you design for a person and for what their needs are versus here's my style, I hope you like it. And you picked me because of my style. I don't, I can't design like that either, because I can barely do the same thing twice. So I understand that, and I see it. I think it is very apparent in your work. But speak to me about how you derive at a color scheme or color in a room. How do you determine, do you put color on the wall? Are you getting color some other way?
Judy Pickett 24:44
If we need rugs, those are usually the hardest things to do. So a lot of times I'll start on the floor and that'll kind of direct. You know, you can tell people's natural coloring, like looking in their closet. What they look good in. We're not going to put a client with your coloring, the warm tones, into this cool purpley gray kind of... I mean, she would be very unhappy and she'd look awful.
Kimberly Grigg 25:19
Right. I used to pick wall color based on people's eyes. I did that for years.
Judy Pickett 25:27
Eye color actually is a true indication of what usually the people will like.
Kimberly Grigg 25:32
Yes. Agreed. And I think it's such simple thought, but I would often - especially in my early years, when I wasn't as confident as a designer and I was still learning things - I would look at people and I would imagine them in the colors that I was suggesting. And if they looked pretty, I felt like it was going to be a win. And if they didn't, it was off. So it sort of sounds like that's what you're saying.
Judy Pickett 25:57
Exactly.
Kimberly Grigg 25:57
I didn't learn that. But it's kind of, it's kind of a cool little trick, I think. Yeah. So I recently have a go-to paint color. I use it a lot because I painted the exterior of my house a Benjamin Moore OC59 Vanilla Milkshake. And I've never been one to repeat a lot of anything, including colors. Like it's just not what I do. I'm not a repeater. I used to have a jewelry business. And it was horribly unsuccessful because people would order and I couldn't do it again. I can only do this design one time. But I have found that Vanilla Milkshake has become a go-to color that I rely on. Do you guys have go-to colors that tend to show up often or not?
Judy Pickett 26:47
Yeah, no, there are. And I'm trying to.. I'm trying to name them.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 26:51
You mean like the accessible beige, right?
Judy Pickett 26:54
Well not really.
Kimberly Grigg 26:58
Yeah, I think we're all a little bit tired of those, the beiges, the greiges.
Judy Pickett 27:03
There's one called Drift of Mist.
Kimberly Grigg 27:06
I love Drift of Mist!
Judy Pickett 27:10
And it's not grey. And it's not brown. And it's light. So it's refreshing. But, it doesn't, it's not heavy. And it has become one of my go-to colors because, truthfully, since you 'fessed up, I painted my living room/dining room that. And it's just pleasant.
Kimberly Grigg 27:33
Yes, yes. Easy to live in, easy to work with. And I think as I've aged in this business, it's all, it's very layered. It's very complicated. There's, as you know, there are a million moving parts in one room. And people don't really realize that until they either try it themselves, or they somehow wake up and realize what all is involved. And I've kind of developed, like, again, I can't repeat the same look, I can't even copy a picture on Pinterest. I don't know how to do that. But I'm very adept now at saying this is a formula that works. And these are some things that I've done or used by trial and error that have worked, why not repeat those processes. And I think that that's where Vanilla Milkshake came in for me. It's sort of like, it's so easy to work with. And when I can find something that's easy to work with, then I can spend other time doing other parts of the process, so that it all turns out to be a really good job. So I think that colors like Drift of Mist is one. There's a, it's very popular at the coast, Beach Glass. We, you know, for a long time, that was just such a color that everyone wanted. I get sick of them after a while. I'm like, oh my God, are we gonna do Restrain Gold again? No.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 29:02
I know. Have you heard of Clare? We found it during the height of COVID. It's C L A R E. It is a company that is fairly new, I believe, but they have actually a quiz on their website. And it'll help you determine sort of what color you're drawn to, and kind of guide you through that process. And their site, you can order like samples that you can like peel and stick on the wall and kind of see if that's the color you want. But when you're ready to purchase paint, they'll ship it to you, with your color already, and all the supplies you want too.
Kimberly Grigg 29:46
Love that.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 29:47
And so I got some samples myself.
Kimberly Grigg 29:49
What a great tip!
Hilaire Pickett Martin 29:50
I know. So I got some samples myself and so I'm looking at trying to do some of that for my personal home. But I took the quiz too because I was like, in my master bedroom, we used to have like a dark, deep turquoise, almost like a hunter green, in our bedroom, and we're trying to figure out what color. Do we want to do that again in our new house or not? So anyway, that was kind of helpful for me. I mean, yeah, I could bring home a swatch book and just figure out color. But I think that extra guidance.
Kimberly Grigg 30:19
It's great not only for someone doing it on their own, but it's great for a professional. I mean, I'm definitely going to look that up. And I will actually link that in the show notes for the listener, because I think that's a great tool to work with. And some of the other paint companies have similar things. Sherwin Williams, well, you know, you can, you know, put your paint color, your room in, and put the color on the wall and envision it. It's a little off, if you ask me, but at least it's a, you know, for those that are scared to do anything, it kind of gets you a little further down the road. So I know that especially being in the business as long as you, Judy, and you being around it, Hilaire, there are things that I do when I walk in someone's home that I'm working on, like they've hired me, I'm ready. But one of mine - and, you know, I wouldn't say it's a pet peeve, but I can't think of another word so it's sort of a pet peeve - like things that people do that kind of mess up their homes. And my first is, like, I walk in and there are 3000 picture frames. And all the picture frames are like they look inexpensive, they came from Home Goods most likely, they do have great picture frames for good prices, but my gosh. And the pictures are wee bitty little, like, it's just that thing that drives me insane. What kind of things do you immediately pick up on that people do that maybe they don't know better?
Judy Pickett 31:44
I think you hit on one, and not necessarily the frames, but all the - they might have good furniture, but they stopped and they have cheap lamps or cheap accessories, wallhangings. And it's like, whoa, this could be so much prettier if, you know. I think the accessories make it hard.
Kimberly Grigg 32:06
I agree. And I think that that's where people sometimes are a little crippled. You know, accessorizing is... there's an art, there's a bit of an art. And do you have tips for people on how they can accessorize better?
Judy Pickett 32:21
I always say, like, if we're talking about bookshelves, give me your books. Don't give me any paperbacks. And then may I take all the covers off. So if you, if you look at them, when I did that, for some reason, the books all were the colors of my space, and I just stack a few and then accessorize. So it's kind of a mixture, it has to be curated, it has to be something... I mean, I hate going in and and thinking, oh, you just did that today and the whole thing's done. I mean, I add to and take away and I think, you know, the Japanese do that. They they put out accessories for the season and put them away. And I think that's kind of a cool thing because you can rotate and enjoy things. I just move things around in different rooms, too.
Kimberly Grigg 33:16
Yes, and I do as well. And I encourage people to do that. Like sometimes - I do live Facebooks every Thursday at four - and one of the things that I say to people often in those lives is 'Hey, guys, like this weekend, I want you to take some accessories out of your living room and put them in your bedroom, just do it and snap a picture.' Like, just for fun. It's amazing what happens when you spend a little time mixing it up a little bit. And I think that's what you're saying, Judy, is you know, don't be afraid. Like, you know, take your covers off your books and pop some new accessories up until it looks right. And then if it doesn't look right, it's not, you didn't nail it down, just move it.
Judy Pickett 33:59
Right. It's not glued in.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 34:02
You know, for my perspective, too, I think another one is also think about like the declutter, or decluttering of the space. Like if you're in a room, sometimes if we're going in to even do like a photo shoot, and we want to style it, I think sometimes being conscious of that just as a homeowner or even as just a person, you know, you want to take some of that out. And only put in what is the best and what you love. Like if you find yourself, you know, prime example: my husband and we found ourselves... collection of all the mail, and then the dog's leash, and then the kids' shoes in the mudroom. So it's like how can we make - this goes back to our point of like lifestyle advocate - how can we make this more functional? And so we created a system, a certain area for the mail, and then a certain, you know.... so that sort of helped us. And to the design point is like, take take a few areas of your house throughout a couple weeks or months or whatever, however, you know.... and just literally take everything out. whatever space it is - closet bookshelf - look at it, and only look at everything. What do you not care for anymore? You know, and put back what you love?
Kimberly Grigg 35:10
For sure. And even, you know, I think even one step further is, like, I'm an artist and the paint supplies I promised, when I go to bed at night, they multiply. Like, I wake up and there's more paint supplies. I promise it's that, I'm not a hoarder, ha ha. And so in any event, I have some system, to have some order, because I have that side of the brain that works, too. I decided to use my massive collection of blue and white porcelain to hold things. So my point is, I'm encouraging people to think about how you can make the lifestyle portion - that you all advocate for so beautifully - take that lifestyle portion, how can you now make that pretty? How can you use things in a pretty way? And if that's something that you want to go shop for, at some of the discount stores, or whatever, you can, you can pull in some great pieces, or go high. Edith-Anne Duncan was on the podcast a week or so ago, and she was talking about, at this stage, she wanted to have all of her functionality be beautiful to her. So she uses a china cup in the morning to drink her coffee. Her husband's mouthwash is in this beautiful decanter. She likes to pull out her silver and serve things on a silver tray. And actually I do too. I mean, I feel so special when I do those sorts of things. And I think, you know, marrying that to what you're saying about, you know, how do you live? You know, we can't help it. We have dogs and kids and they have shoes and clutter and toys and things and, like... but how can you approach that from a pretty way? Because not only is that nice aesthetically for you, you're teaching your children how to live beautifully.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 37:10
Yeah, and functional as well, too, for sure.
Kimberly Grigg 37:13
For sure. So do you guys think that creativity can be learned?
Judy Pickett 37:17
A formula can be learned to create? But I don't know that creativity can be learned.
Kimberly Grigg 37:29
Okay, good point. And how, like, how would someone get a formula?
Judy Pickett 37:37
I think they'd have to do self study. And I mean, I think the formula will be different for every person, but start studying things that you like. Why do I like that? It's orderly, it's symmetric, it's not symmetric. Symmetry is easy. Asymmetry is not easy, for balance. So that goes back to the principles of design school.
Kimberly Grigg 38:06
And practice.
Judy Pickett 38:06
Scale, proportion, yeah.
Kimberly Grigg 38:09
And training your eye.
Judy Pickett 38:10
Training your eye, yeah.
Kimberly Grigg 38:12
I think anything that you really want to do is possible. But there's different levels of how willing you are to do those things. How far are you going to go? How far are you going to dive in? Because, you know, I've always heard and I do believe it takes four years to be an expert in anything. But I think you can achieve expertness - if that is such a word - but you can achieve that level on anything that you truly have a passion for, and you truly develop it. And I don't think, you know, some of us do come out of the womb being creative. And we're just born that way.
Judy Pickett 38:51
I think so.
Kimberly Grigg 38:52
But I do feel like... and some of us will always have more degrees, but a lot of that is because I'm genuinely interested in creativity, genuinely. From my whole heart. And while, you know, some of my children have lots of creative sparks, they're not as genuinely interested. So they've gone in another direction. And so in any event, I just wondered how you felt about that. So what inspires you guys?
Judy Pickett 39:22
Great clients inspire me, nature inspires me. I think, especially here at springtime, colors are just amazing in nature. It always inspires me whether I'm in the mountains or at the beach or wherever. I think one thing that inspires me are my twin granddaughters, how they put things together, like go get dressed, and they'll come out and they'll have all this stuff on and I'm going whoa. And it's like their style of the day and I'm thinking well, I guess it does work, but I never would have done it. You know, so...
Kimberly Grigg 40:00
How old are they?
Hilaire Pickett Martin 40:02
They're six.
Kimberly Grigg 40:04
Now these are your girls, right?
Hilaire Pickett Martin 40:05
Mm hmm.
Kimberly Grigg 40:06
How fun is that? Are they identical?
Hilaire Pickett Martin 40:08
They're fraternal.
Kimberly Grigg 40:09
Okay. Yeah. Wow what fun.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 40:10
Yeah, I think for me what inspires me... I mean, yes, nature. I love hikes, being outdoors, camping. But I think also, just hearing other people's stories. Truly, you know, hearing their stories, what they are passionate about. I love traveling, which is obviously taking on a different role, and instead of maybe going to Europe, maybe I'm going an hour away, and I'm finding something completely new and different.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 40:15
Yes, yes. So what are your personal homestyles like? What's your house like, Judy?
Judy Pickett 40:45
Oh, I just moved right before COVID. I downsized into this beautiful condominium project. Traditional, we were the designer of record, and the developers, you know, where's yours? Pick yours out. But it's kind of a everything brought just could fit in one room, and then I bought everything new. And, you know Kimberly, when have you done that? I mean, when, as a designer, you just kind of accumulate from show houses, and you know, when do you get to actually pick out furniture?
Kimberly Grigg 41:17
I love that. Right. I love that.
Judy Pickett 41:22
Yeah, it was very cool. But I kind of have always loved greens and corals, and different shades from very bright to very subtle. And they have followed me since I was 20. And I'll be 70 this year, and they're still following me around. So I think that, you know, whether it was cool or not, or whether it was in or trending, I always kind of stayed with those, you know, spring greens and whites and cools.
Kimberly Grigg 41:49
Right. Love it. How about you, Hilaire?
Hilaire Pickett Martin 41:52
My style is more... gosh. I love spending summers and our trips up in Maine. So I have a little bit more of a coastal feel. But it's more... I've got, you know, landscapes and pictures of Maine as art. I've got boats and just things that take me to a place in Maine of relaxation and being with family. But it's it's very soothing. Blues are very prominent in my house of blues. So. I used to have more of like the... right out of once my husband I got married our our look was kind of like farmhouse meets little bit of industrial sort of New York edgy, maybe, I don't even know how to describe it, bachelor. But now we moved right before COVID as well, too, and we've just slowly built the aesthetic of that. And I paint as well, too, not as frequently as I would like, but some artwork of mine is up and children's artwork and stuff. So it's just everything that I love that's in my house reminds me of you know, something that feels good.
Kimberly Grigg 43:01
Love that. Love that. So I have one last question for you guys. And I could talk to you all day. But I feel like I need to be respectful of your time. And so the question is, if you had a hashtag that would describe your legacy of design, what would it be? And you guys can answer this individually or together, however you want to, but like what would your hashtag of your legacy be? It's a hard question, isn't it?
Hilaire Pickett Martin 43:29
That's a really hard question!
Judy Pickett 43:31
I don't even know what mine is.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 43:36
Gosh, I mean, something along the lines for me would be like, you know, something about joy, living with joy.
Judy Pickett 43:46
Hashtag: a life well lived.
Kimberly Grigg 43:49
Yeah. Yes. I think so. And I think that, you know, if you really weren't like stumped with that question - because it is a bold question - but if you really think about it, I feel like your design philosophy would probably show up as well, because you preach it. Especially you, Judy, being in the business as long as you've been. Because I think that fundamentally becomes a little more about who we are, like, you know, you really do design for a person. So you've said it several times, it's important for you to listen, it's important for you to speak to their aesthetic. And also you, Hilaire, telling me about your home like, you have to be with things that you find great beauty in and very honest, like heck, I don't care if you feel like it's great beauty, it's great beauty to me, and that's important to me. And I think that somehow that does sort of weave its way into what our legacy is or becomes and sort of the same thing for me. Like a life well lived says a lot. Like I think for me, it's probably live out loud. Like, you know, really - and I couldn't have said that 15 years ago, I was still developing what that meant. And for me now, it's sort of like, my home is about me, it's not about you. And it's not about keeping up with anybody, let alone the Joneses. It's not about what someone thinks about my home, even as a designer - you know how that is, people want to come to your house, because you're a designer, and then they want to critique it, or love it, or marvel or whatever. I long since stopped caring about that. Like, to me, live out loud is sort of, I'm living out loud as me. And as the two people that occupy that home on a daily basis now, and, you know, somehow all of that is woven together. And I think it's kind of cool. And I think you all are super cool.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 45:51
Oh thank you. I was even thinking, like, your story is your design, or your design is your story, you know? Because, again, design is personal. So everyone's gonna have different.
Kimberly Grigg 46:03
It is personal if you if you allow it. I'm sure that you all have been told by marketers and etcetera, you know I have, 'what is your look? What is your style? What is it like?' That's what they market. And I would always stand there, like, with a frozen look on my face. And like, what are you talking about? I don't know that. I mean, am I doing it wrong?
Judy Pickett 46:10
You know, what I used to say, to clients? I said, the biggest compliment I could get is that your friends never knew I stepped in your home.
Kimberly Grigg 46:36
For sure. Amen, sister. Amen. And that's when you do your best. It's when you do your very best work, is you have to step into that person. And I'm not saying I don't admire some famous designer who got famous because she only does this style. I'm not saying that. But I am saying, I'm not cut out for that. Like, that's just not my aesthetic, it's not yours, either. And I know that, I know that about you. And I guess it could be for somebody. But it's just not who I want to be as a designer. It's not part of what I want to leave behind. And I think you feel sort of similar.
Judy Pickett 47:20
I agree.
Kimberly Grigg 47:21
So what a joy to spend this time with you guys. I'm so glad to reconnect. It's just been forever. I mean, Hilaire, you've had children since. And Judy, you just keep on winning awards and doing all these great things. And together you guys are just incredible. I think it is wonderful that you work together. So tell me, how can people find you. Tell us your social media channels and all that stuff.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 47:48
Sure. We're at DesignLineSignature.com. And then as well on Instagram and Facebook, it's just DesignLineSignature.
Kimberly Grigg 47:57
Okay, great. Well, again, I thank you. I'm sure my audience is going to love this or has loved this. And I wish you all the very, very best. I wish I could spend the rest of the day with you.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 48:11
Aw thank you!
Judy Pickett 48:13
Thank you for having us.
Kimberly Grigg 48:14
You're welcome. And until we meet again, again thanks. And I will sign off and say bye for now.
Hilaire Pickett Martin 48:23
Bye.
Kimberly Grigg 48:24
Thanks for listening to Decorate Like A Design Boss. If you want more info on how to decorate your space like a pro, visit KimberlyGriggDesigns.com. See you next week.