On this first episode of The Ombibulous, Dylan and I discuss the Scottish Wee Heavy beer style.We also provide some pointers on how new craft beer drinkers can find what they're looking for.

Scottish Wee Heavy

SPEAKERS

Connor Brekke, Dylan Schafer

Connor Brekke 00:07

Hello, everyone and welcome to the first episode of the Ombibulous, a show where we discuss a variety of topics regarding alcohol. From specific beer styles, distillation, the brewing process, wine, spirits, and even a history of certain liquor laws, there's a fascinating world to explore. On this episode, we kick off the taster series with a discussion about the Scottish wee heavy beer style. Joining me today is Dylan Shafer, owner of Dialectic Brewing company here in Mandan, North Dakota. I'm your host, Connor Brekke, let's all raise a glass to The Ombibulous.

Connor Brekke 00:53

Welcome back to the show. Dylan, thank you for joining us. Got some good stuff to talk about today. What do you have for us?

Dylan Schafer 01:00

Yeah, so I brought our wee heavy Scotch ale, it is called The Helpful Shepherd wee heavy.

Connor Brekke 01:06

And we each have our own glass of it. It is a very beautiful leathery brown color.

Dylan Schafer 01:12

Start things off, right with a quick sip of it you know, get it fresh in your memory.

Connor Brekke 01:16

Right, right.

Dylan Schafer 01:17

Yeah, s o I mean, definitely the first thing you're going to notice on this beer is it does have kind of an off white, really thick head when you first pour the beer, of course. And it does have that nice off white to kind of tan colored head. And then a beautiful rich kind of almost Auburn color to it. Like you said that nice red, leathery color to it.

Connor Brekke 01:37

Just like the couch we're sitting on right now kind of.

Dylan Schafer 01:40

Exactly.

Connor Brekke 01:41

It's definitely a bit stronger. Hence the name we heavy.

Dylan Schafer 01:44

It is Yep. And this is currently the strongest beer we have on our tap lineup. It comes in at eight and a half percent. So it's nothing that's going to knock you on your butt too hard. But it does have a little bit of alcohol warmth to it, that's for sure.

Dylan Schafer 02:00

And this beer does have real special place in my heart. It's kind of been, I've had a long history of brewing this beer. So I'm sure we'll get into a little bit more of the history of my experience with this beer in another episode yet, too.

Connor Brekke 02:14

Yep. For the listeners. Stay tuned, we got some great stuff coming up.

Dylan Schafer 02:18

Yeah, and I guess to start with, the first thing I always get when I go into tasting this beer, is you're gonna start off with obviously a really rich, sweet malt character. The beer does finish out at a higher terminal gravity. So it has quite a bit of that residual sweetness left in there. You get a lot of those kind of rich carmely characters, some chocolate, carmel toffee, things like that. The yeast does provide a nice little sweet fruity ester to almost dates or raisins character in there.

Connor Brekke 02:49

So how far back does this style go roughly?

Dylan Schafer 02:51

Well, Scottish... Scottish beer styles in general, do date back as far as 5000 years, the Scotch Ale and Scottish ales that we're familiar with today in the craft beer industry really date back to about the 1800s. There is kind of a few different styles that fall within that scotch ale. Traditionally, in Scotland, they range from basically how expensive the beer was. So you had your Scottish lights, your heavies, your exports, and then your we heavies being the biggest stuff. A lot of times, you'll see to them referred to as 60, 70, 80 and 90 shilling beers. And that just is a reference to what the price of those beers costs. So that's a lot of how they break it down. The we heavy being the biggest and most expensive in that realm. And that one usually comes in pretty much over 6% is kind of a style guideline on that one that you got to be over 6% for it to be a wee heavy. And you're definitely going to notice there's not a lot of hop character to this beer. It's really reminiscent of kind of the Scottish version of like an English barley wine. So you get that real rich.

Connor Brekke 04:01

Yes, it definitely has that

Dylan Schafer 04:03

Big rich malt character, just enough hops to kind of keep everything balanced on there for sure. Yeah, it's just a it's a great winter style. It's I guess for me, it's a great any time of year style. J ust got to do it in moderation.

Connor Brekke 04:16

A lot of perople would agree with you. Beer is good anytime of the year.

Dylan Schafer 04:18

And I wouldn't argue with those people one bit. Yeah, so traditionally, as far as brewing this style of beer, there is going to be some unique aspects to it. One of the big things where you get that nice rich carmel character from is coming somewhat from the malts. But we also do a very, very extensive boil on this one. So this particular beer does get 120 minute boil on it. A lot of the industry standard on most beers is going to be about a 60 minute boil. So this is boiled for double the amount of time and what that does is it kind of helps to create some kettle carmelization that very, very rigorous boil for a long time starts to carmelize some of those grain sugars th at you have

Dylan Schafer 05:00

than the wort and that gives it that really nice rich character.

Connor Brekke 05:03

Yeah, that beautiful, kind of maple syrupy

Dylan Schafer 05:07

Yeah

Connor Brekke 05:08

color

Dylan Schafer 05:08

Yep. Yeah, you get kind of that Maple syrupy little bit of kind of light molasses color to it.

Dylan Schafer 05:17

Yeah, and I guess there is a pretty wide variety too, when you see people brewing the scotch Ale,

Connor Brekke 05:35

In today's beer market, you are going to see scotch sales and wee heavies, pretty much used interchangeably as being the kind of heavy end of those Scottish Ale beers. So your Scottish lights, everything like that.

Connor Brekke 05:49

There'll be labeled as a Scottish ale or a 60 shilling or whatever. The we heavies and Scotch ales are going to kind of be used interchangeably to refer to the biggest version of it the highest alcohol version of it.

Connor Brekke 06:03

Okay, I was kind of curious about that myself.

Connor Brekke 06:06

Yeah. And the name wee have, he actually comes from some particular brewers in Edinburgh, and they would serve this beer was typically served in a very, very small bottle, you know, usually like a six to eight ounce bottle. And so it was a wee bottle of the Scottish heavy. That's where that kind of term we heavy comes from.

Connor Brekke 06:28

Okay, that paints a pretty cool picture, in one's mind.

Dylan Schafer 06:31

Yeah.

Dylan Schafer 06:32

A little bit of history backstory on how that, name has kind of come about. And again, you do see them used interchangeably. Some brewers are gonna market theirs exclusively a Scotch ale. And you'll never see don't refer to it as a wee heavy. Even as far as like the BJCP, the beer judge certification program, if you enter beer to be judged in their program, they lump the scotch ale and the we heavy all together. So again, it's kind of an ambiguous style. But for the most part, if you see those terms, you're going to be getting the high alcohol, fuller bodied heavy version of that scotch ale.

Connor Brekke 07:10

So it's kind of like a tomato tomahto Potato Potahto.

Dylan Schafer 07:13

Exactly

Connor Brekke 07:14

But, everybody has their own little play on how they want to do it.

Dylan Schafer 07:17

And a lot of breweries today will use just what markets better. For me, I again, ours is called the Helpful Shepherd. I personally think the Helpful Shepherd we heavy markets better than the Helpful Shepherd scotch ale. So a lot of people will pick which name just kind of flows better and markets better for their, whatever their marketing campaign happens to be with that beer.

Connor Brekke 07:38

Yeah, that's a massive part of sales and everything.

Dylan Schafer 07:41

Exactly.

Connor Brekke 07:42

Just how you word it.

Dylan Schafer 07:43

And our we heavy does, the one we brew here at Dialectic does have some unique components to it. there's kind of two categories, you'll tend to see on the wee heavy line, either just a classic, wee heavy or a lightly smoked, wee heavy. We do a lightly smoked wee heavy. There is a huge argument if that is acceptable in traditional Scottish brewing to use a smoked malt. I like the character that a pete smoked malt gives it, and it's not an overly smoky beer. The idea is you want to find kind of the right balance, anything smokier than this you would likely categorize as a smoked beer instead of a wee heavy, but it gives you just that little bit of earthy, smoky character, a little peat moss smoke character in there. And I think it adds to the complexity of an already very, very complex beer.

Connor Brekke 08:34

Right and then for lovers of like Laphroaig, or any type of pete smoked liquor,

Dylan Schafer 08:41

Yep,

Connor Brekke 08:41

it definitely is reminiscent of that.

Dylan Schafer 08:43

Yeah, you get the you know, you get the sweetness, obviously, of that heavy malt forward beer. But it really doesn't finish to sweet either, you get that fairly dry finish with that little bit of smoke in there. And I do think that for some of those, some of the whiskey drinkers, some of the scotch drinkers that that is an appealing character as they're transitioning over to beer as well.

Connor Brekke 09:05

It's definitely a good middle ground. Like if you don't, if you're not sure what you want to get into. Try this, if you like, like the scotch in the hard alcohol world, give this a shot, you know.

Dylan Schafer 09:17

And this one is fun, too, because apart from that pete smoked character... I'm not a huge scotch drinker myself. I have family members that are, and they always explain the different types of scotches to me as you know, you have some that are going to be a little fruity or a little sweeter. And then you got your ones that are going to be a little bit smokier and a little bit drier. The nice thing about this beer is that it can kind of appeal to both of those types of scotch drinkers. You do get that slightly dry, smoky finish on it. But then, for ours, you get a little bit of that yeast ester in there to that kind of rasin and dates character that's reminiscent of one of those fruity or richer scotches as well.

Connor Brekke 09:57

Basically, it's the best of both worlds in my opinion.

Connor Brekke 10:00

I'm all for that too. This is my... I hate to say it because it is kind of like picking a favorite child. But this is probably my favorite beer that I brew. I have been brewing it for a long, long time, and it just holds a special spot in my heart. It's the we heavies are one of the styles that I fell in love with when I even first started drinking craft beer.

Connor Brekke 10:23

I wasn't a big hoppy beer drinker, I liked the malt forward beers. And I fell in love with the Scotch ales and the wee heavies, because they just have so much complexity and so much character, without being an overly hopped beer.

Connor Brekke 10:36

That's generally what I like. I mean, I'm a huge sour person. But I, I don't dislike IPAs, I'm still trying to find the ones that I really like. But I've always enjoyed something like this, it's more along like, possibly a fine wine, or a really nice scotch or something that just kind of rounds out everything that doesn't really hit you with one overpowering characteristic or another. This one definitely is very well rounded out.

Dylan Schafer 11:06

And I think you hit the nail on the head there. I think the beauty of the Scotch ale is that there's not any one dominant characteristic that's just in your face. In my mind, the style is all about nuance, you want to get a lot of different flavors and a lot of stuff going on. And you don't really want them overpowering each other, you want to be able to pick all of that up on the palate as you sip the beer. And it truly is it good sipping beer, especially because as you cradle that glass and warm it up a little bit, those flavors just come out more and more and more in it.

Connor Brekke 11:38

And you don't want to chug it because of the high alcohol content too. Or maybe you do. Maybe you have a designated driver. And that's, that's fine.

Dylan Schafer 11:45

Or you're sitting at home around the bonfire. And I mean, it's a really good one for sitting around the fire. That's for sure.

Connor Brekke 11:50

This is definitely a good, in my mind, fall campfire beer.

Dylan Schafer 11:54

And that is, we typically brew this beer, we only brew it once a year. And we typically brew it come fall time because yeah, the high alcohol does make it a great winter beer. But in my mind, like you said, sitting around the campfire in the fall out camping, and that is the ideal situation for this beer. And so we usually try to release it right around that kind of late fall time. Which can be kind of a mystery when that's going to hit us here in North Dakota, but..

Connor Brekke 12:21

It comes eventually.

Dylan Schafer 12:23

Yeah,

Connor Brekke 12:23

It does get here.

Dylan Schafer 12:24

You know, and this year, we got a great extended one.

Connor Brekke 12:26

Might only be one day, it could be a month, who knows.

Dylan Schafer 12:30

Yep.

Connor Brekke 12:30

That's why you got to have everything ready for it when it does show up.

Dylan Schafer 12:33

Agreed.

Dylan Schafer 12:34

Yeah, and in general, I would just say that this is, I mean, it's a really, really fun style, again, to someone who's looking to get into the scotch ale style. Be careful when you're out trying to tap the tap room, you know, make sure to look at its ABV and stuff like that. You'll probably find some of them that are clocking in around that 6% range. And, you know, you can maybe have a couple more of them than coming in at the eight and a half 9-10 percent range. I've seen them as high as 10, 11, 12%.

Dylan Schafer 13:01

But it is a really fun style to try to get into. Especially for a new craft beer drinker. It's not, it's not too assaultive. on any of the flavors, it's well rounded. It's complex. It's nuanced. That's all of my favorite things in one package, that's for sure.

Connor Brekke 13:17

Yeah, definitely. And the more craft places I go to, you know, I've learned that you can genuinely talk to the bartender, sometimes the owner or head brewer might even be there. Just ask questions. If you're, if you want to know, I have never been told no, I don't want to talk to you or anything like that. They usually always love what they do. They, they know what they do. So if you're curious, if you... if you want to know more about a style, or if you just don't know where to start, you know, they'll ask you generally you'll get asked some questions like, "Well, what do you like?" Well, if you don't know, then just pick something. "Well, what's that one on the board there? Tell me about that one." So that's how I've been getting into a lot more different types of craft beer, just striking up conversation, and it does help that Dylan does own a brewery,

Connor Brekke 14:07

and I do come here very often. So...

Dylan Schafer 14:09

And apart from brew, and I'm usually down in the tap room working to and I mean, I personally love talking with people about beer. Even when it's people who come in for their very first time. They've never had craft beer before. You know, they might not really know what they like or what they want. But I really enjoy to I'll ask people, you know, what do you drink in general apart from beer, what do you drink? Do you drink coffee? Do you drink cider at all? Do you drink juice, tea, you know, any of these things that just kind of can point me in the right direction of someone's palate. And this one, this beer really does cover a lot of bases. If you like drinking a dry red wine, this has some of those nice tannic rich characteristics of a dried red wine apart it's a little sweeter obviously but

Dylan Schafer 14:59

again, this just

Dylan Schafer 14:59

checks a lot of boxes and I find some folks who are really not craft beer drinkers you think would steer away from the eight and a half percent big full charactered beer on the menu. But I get a lot of fairly new craft beer drinkers come in and they love this beer just as much as the the well seasoned drinkers do so.

Connor Brekke 15:19

Yep, I've watched plenty of people come in to this place and just... no clue. You know, you don't know what you don't know. Then, as the days weeks and months go by, they're always back. "Alright, I'm ready for this new one. Let's, let's see what you got." It's, it's always nice to see people's minds getting opened up to the world of craft beer. You know, it's there's a lot more than, and I'm not knocking against it, but like the cheap box stuff.

Dylan Schafer 15:44

Yep.

Connor Brekke 15:44

If that's your thing, then cool. Nothing wrong with that. But, there's a very, very big world out there to explore.

Dylan Schafer 15:51

And I think you touched on something too there. There's no reason to be ashamed. If you like drink in your domestic light beer, you don't need to be ashamed and worried about going into a brewery out of shame. I noticed plenty of times in here that we have people come in and I'll ask them what they normally drink for beer. And they usually get a very ashamed look on their face and say, "Oh, you're not going to like to hear this. But I drink X, Y and Z of the domestic light beers." And I always tell him I I occasionally have the domestic light beers too. I always got a Pilsner on our board. That's a nice, light, easy drinker. There's nothing to be ashamed in what your tastes are. And odds are no matter what you like, the craft beer industry can really provide some great outlets for you.

Connor Brekke 16:36

Yep, that's one thing again, when you go into these craft beers, they usually have something, like you said a Pilsner or something lighter, that's more of like the widespread mainstream kind, but it's their own individual take on it. And...

Dylan Schafer 16:51

Exactly.

Connor Brekke 16:52

it usually doesn't scare people away when you have like a triple, sour, milkshake IPA, blahh you know when the name is like...

Dylan Schafer 17:01

Double dry hopped

Connor Brekke 17:02

three paragraphs long

Connor Brekke 17:03

It's like, it's like anything, just start small.

Dylan Schafer 17:06

And I will say this to you know, the wee heavy branch of the Scottish ales, they may be a little much for some people starting out. But if you're looking to get into craft beer, and you see a Scottish light, or a Scottish export beer, even on tap, they're a really good place to go. They're not too in your face. They're a malt forward beer, so you don't get that really punchy hoppy character. I mean, for any of the non craft beer drinkers out there, most of your domestic basic beers are not going to be hop forward, they are a malt forward, clean beer. And a lot of the Scottish sales though Scottish lights and stuff like that, their lower alcohol percentage, I mean, the the Scottish lights and kind of the breakdown I had mentioned earlier in this episode, the light heavy export, and wee heavy categorization. So that's the Scottish light or the 60 shilling Scottish ale is going to come in under three and a half percent. So it's a really easy one, it's not going to get you in too much trouble. The next step up that Scottish heavy, even with the term being a Scottish heavy, it's still only between three and a half and 4% alcohol. And then you get your export or you're 80 shilling beer, that's going to be that four to five and a half percent range. And then your we heavies are the 90 shillings are going to be up there over 6%. So some of those lighter Scottish beers are a really good way if you're new into the craft beer world, they're a really good way to kind of start breaking that ice a little bit and venturing out. Don't be afraid they are going to typically be a little darker. And I always tell people when they come in and sample beers even like our Irish Red Ale, don't let the color put you off. It's not a big heavy beer. It's it's still really well balanced and really quite easy drinking and I find a lot of those lighter Scottish ales to be the same story. They are quite easy drinking refreshing beers.

Dylan Schafer 19:04

The wee heavy is obviously going to be a little more full bodied, a little thicker, a little heavier. And that can be intimidating to some newer folks. But I think in general, those Scottish sales and Scotch ales is a really, really good place for craft beer drinkers to get a start.

Connor Brekke 19:19

Cheers to that.

Dylan Schafer 19:21

Amen.

Connor Brekke 19:22

Well, I would say you covered quite a bit of ground there with that one. Definitely hope more people can come out and experience yours. And if you can't come all the way out to Mandan, North Dakota, try looking at your local liquor store or maybe you got a local place that makes their own, I would definitely give it a shot.

Dylan Schafer 19:43

Absolutely. They and they are a fairly popular style. You'll see him around a lot of craft brewers are doing them and I see him in a lot of liquor stores too. So I think if you're craving one and want to try the style out, I think there's an option out there for you to get into it for sure.

Connor Brekke 19:59

Definitely.

Connor Brekke 20:00

Well, this was a great first episode and I appreciate the listeners out there for tuning in. And I appreciate all the support from everybody else. Especially, Dylan letting me use his place to film.

Dylan Schafer 20:15

Absolutely I'm I'm always here doing something. So sometimes it's fun to get away from keg cleaning and sit down and talk to beer for a little while.

Connor Brekke 20:22

Indeed, and we got a lot of topics coming up. So until next time, cheers.

Connor Brekke 20:28

The Ombibulous is made possible with Castos, giving creators the tools to connect with their community and audience. The music is courteous of Pond5, with over 25 million royalty free stock videos, music, photos, and sound effects. There's something for every creator. Today's content was recorded here at Dialectic Brewing Company in Mandan, North Dakota.

Connor Brekke 20:55

I would like to thank Dylan Shaffer for the use of his facility and time to create this episode. And of course, a big thanks to all our listeners for all of your support. Until next time, cheers.