Disabled Lives Matter

Season 1, Episode 15

Co-Hosts: Nadine Vogel & Norma Stanley

Guest: Greg Van Borssum

Intro: [Music playing in background] Disabled Lives Matter… here we go!

Voiceover: Hello and welcome to this week’s episode of the disabled lives matter podcast with co-hosts Nadine Vogel and Norma Stanely... yay!

Nadine Vogel: This is Nadine Vogel your co-host of disabled lives matter, this is not just a podcast, this is a movement and movement with my co-host Norma Stanley.

NORMA STANLEY: Hi everybody.

Nadine Vogel: Hey Norma how's it going.

NORMA STANLEY: I’m resting up from a fun Mother’s Day happy belated Mother’s Day to all the moms out there.

Nadine Vogel: Absolutely, absolutely well, we are joined today by someone I’ve now known a really long time Greg than foursome and Greg you know, whenever I think of Greg, I remember one thing he said a long time ago when he was speaking in advance of ours, he said your greatest disability is above the neck. And I remember the first time Greg that you said that I was like what the heck is he talking about, so we are joined by Greg he really talks about that and talk about mental toughness and his organization called GVB mind warriors so Greg welcome to the show.

Greg Van Borssum: Thanks for having me on board.

Nadine Vogel: So, you know because it's a podcast folks can see you, but you are one big muscle guy. But, you didn't really start out that way, did you.

Greg Van Borssum: No I was a very skinny kid and I grew up in a housing Commission area. And most of the kids in my area werel five years older than me so they were a lot bigger and used to pick on me and beat me up and bully me all the time. So, you know, it took it took a massive toll on me as a kid and I had to make that decision at 12 years of age that I’ve had enough. And I had to make a decision to change, and so it was it was a very tough decision to make because you know many times in life when it does beat you down and you quit and or you fold into it, or you give into it, or you become a lesser person than you could have been. And you know, and I remember the time it happened, I was very fortunate to have a grandmother that was quite an amazing woman. And she'd flown back in 1921 in biplanes with Hudson fish the man that went to start quantum, some of the money she gave him went towards funding the airline. And she always said to me, you have to learn to fly you know you've got you’ve got to stand up for you believe in and become the person you can be. And so, I remember being surrounded by this group of kids this time they had me up against this tree and they were trying to hit me, and I just looked left and ran home and I made a decision right, then, that I was never going to get picked on again. The next day I started martial arts, I started weight, training and I never looked back.

Nadine Vogel: And that's important because if I remember you had shared with me that I think that is how you were like kindergarten need you kicked out of school a few times right, but I think, I don’t know if it was your family or the school said, you know by 21 you need to be in prison or dead.

Greg Van Borssum: Yeah, they said if I was lucky, I’d be in prison or dead by 21. My kindergarten teacher pulled my parents aside and said I’d be the reason she quit the profession. I was kicked out of all preschools as well, actually one of my friends from primary school has actually taken over one of the preschools that I got kicked out. And we were laughing about it, the other day I haven't seen her in years. She said I run green trees now and so I remember getting thrown out of green tree. It was the fourth one that I had been thrown out of for being disruptive and I was just an energetic kid I think a lot of kids are really energetic and they don't have anywhere to let this stuff out. And it makes for a for a wild child, and I think if you get two things one you get inspirational teachers and people around you that actually give a rat's backside about you, and you have a community that instills better qualities in a kid then you've got, you've got somebody to let that stuff out I think we've looked, we’ve sold ourselves short these days, with that stuff because we've given in to the Xbox’s, the phones and all the other stuff that we spend our time on and we don't give our kids the attention they deserve, and I think. And the kids are losing out this whole generations lost it’s focus. Because they don't understand how to get their focus because we've given them so many offerings from Facebook to snapchat to Instagram to Twitter to email to Xbox to PlayStation to Netflix you name it they've got so many things to focus this attention on that you can't hone it, hone their attention and what I said to my son all the time, and my daughter my daughter mason is that you if you spearhead your focus and focus on the one thing you will make it and masons just proved that he’s 13 years of age, his team is tap team, mason's a tapper, taught by the top dogs and his tap team just won the overall national championships and you know at 13 and he's become an amazing speaker and my daughter's doing amazing things and because I’ve taught them and my wife and I’ve taught them to spearhead their focus. And it's important thing that kids missing these days and it's having a massive effect up top in their brains.

Nadine Vogel: Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna talk more about that because this this issue of what's going on in our heads and our mental health is really, really something else, so I do want to come back to that. So, let's go back you 16 you decided, enough is enough, and I think you said you had two or three goals that you just put out there day one.

Greg Van Borssum: I had, I had a number of things I used to spread out to my mother, so one I wanted to be big and strong. And also, to be heroes I always admired the phantom and the phantom had these amazing skills, because he was a human being in the comic book series, he was a really good pistol shooter and he's a really good fighter. And he was meant to be the ghost that walks, and so I wanted to be like that I wanted to be this guy that can really fight could really handle himself who was big and strong and could shoot. And so, all these things were in my head the whole time as a child, and I wanted to make movies, so I had this whole amazing imagination, that I wanted to use and. So, I wanted to make movies, and so, and I really wanted to be a champion, because my father, being a world champion kayaker and I wanted to be like that, and so I just thought well if I’m going to do something I’m going to do it all the way. And I was actually 13 when I decided this fully because when I took on weight training, because I was so skinny, I was at the gym and I found a magazine that was totally dedicated to the sport of bodybuilding. And I found a photograph in that magazine of a man called Bob Paris and he just won the US nationals. And I was at my friend's place at the time on the floor reading these magazines and I found that photograph and I just jumped up, I was so excited and said that is what I’m going to do I’m going to win the national championships. My friend’s parents looked at the photo Bob Paris, it was like a Hulk looked at me and laughing their heads off and to the point that I left their house and never went back. And I went back to the gym, and I sat on the bench I looked up at these photos of these champions of the wall like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lou Ferrigno. And thought you know what I wonder what they did to get where they got and I thought you know I’m going to do it, and I said I’m going to show everybody what I can do what I can be. And I went at it 100% I lived it breathed that and I immersed myself in it and age 16 I did my first show I didn't place it in, I didn’t place in the show. But I kept working at it and eventually age 19 you know I won the teenage nationals, and I won the overall nationals at 20 and went pro at 20 as the world's youngest pro natural bodybuilder. So yeah, it's all doable and I was a skinny kid, and I didn't know anybody, I taught myself everything from the ground up I just had that much hatred to what I was like as a person, and that much desire to change what I was that nothing was going to stop me getting there.

Nadine Vogel: And I think that, and Norma I know you'll agree, you know, for all of our listeners, especially you know those who have disabilities, it goes to show you know if you put your mind to it, yes, there will be limitations, so it's based on what your body allows you to do. But there's rarely limitations that your mind can't take on right.

Greg Van Borssum: And here's my thing on that and I’ve got a really big point on that is that. Okay, and I’ve got lots of injuries in my youth and doing stunts and fights and all that stuff and I literally just almost smashed my ankle tonight and I’ve had lots of fractured spines I’ve enjoyed myself had snap the tendons up my legs, I had to learn how to walk again, I mean I’ve been through levels of disability. And the biggest thing I learned from all of this, and this is something I’ve learned for a lot of people who have physical impediments, and I don't call it disabilities, I think that the disability is about the neck. Is that when you can't do something, you have to say yourself what can I still do. What can I do, you focus on that you know I know now because my knees are smashed and all the things I’ve done that I’ll never win the Olympic hundred medal record so I go well I can't do that, and when I when I had you know in 2016 when I suffered a major stroke training to climb Everest. You know I had to go well, I can't do that now what but what can I do so, I started writing a book and I started developing other things, and so, if you can re-channel your thinking process into other areas. You never fall into that level of depression and negativity because you're always thinking forward to the next thing.

Nadine Vogel: Right, right.

NORMA STANLEY: Absolutely, the mind is a powerful thing, and we really have to focus on, you know sharing and obtaining and absorbing those positive thoughts, because that is really what makes us. You know the scripture says guard your mind with all your heart because that’s where everything lies. You know, it controls your body control, it controls so much, we have to very, that’s why mental health is so important.

Greg Van Borssum: You can go right there for genetics and all kinds of stuff about us know, because our brain is refractory you know mechanism we get up in the morning, thinking about the past all the time. And it has a massive effect and a future if we're living in a bad part, it's like ptsd. The amount of friends of mine that I’ve helped in the special forces and other areas in my life who suffer ptsd, now what ptsd does it puts that that thinking of the situation happened at the forefront of your brain. And because of that it's all you think about and then you dwell on that, and then you suffer because of it, and then your life changes, and you can lose your life because of it. So, you have to change that, and it takes a lot of work to change that stuff. And ysou have to get up and alter what you do your processes, if you get up in the morning and have coffee and this and that and saying. change it start doing something different and start writing in a journal I think journaling is one of the most amazing strengths a person can have because it gives you a thought process, thinking forward, it gives you a structure and you start putting stuff in place, you know my two greatest skills to this day and people think I joke when talking about this what I’m talking about this is naivety and stupidity. You know I’m too naive to know I can't do it too stupid to stop once I get started. Now, like even my speaker’s academy I started, I said to my wife, we have to teach these local kids how to speak there's no confidence they're having umming and aring they stay stunned when they when they get up to speak, they cry and said let's do it, so I started the next day I started it and went okay let's advertise it and put it at the local community and do it, and now it keeps selling out into the point now it's gotten such a great REP from the Community, I have major businesspeople out here who are now wanting to fund scholarship programs for the kids to do it. Because it's making such a change, and I just think you just start stuff you'll work out the bugs on the way, and you. You figure it out and I don't care what physical disability or impediment you have there's always a way to move forward in something. You know, one of the great interviews that you know, but people I got to speak to was in Florida with you guys when I when we were down there, and I was talking to one of the one of the fellows they had lost both arms and both legs overnight for meningococcal and you know, he had such the most amazing outlook on life and since losing that he goes, you had to learn to do everything again. And I went from a kid it was a soccer player and a guitarist suddenly now can't brush my teeth. I can't do this, I have to learn this I’ve got to work out how to use these legs and I’m going to get I’ve got a, and the thinking processes that he had to put in place, there’s a man named pedra menta and I’ve got it on my page somewhere Pedro’s interview. And just hearing the way he spoke and what he talked about and how he trained his mind to work even seasonally was a beautiful thing to listen to and I don't think that’s, and he became an engineer from that you know he's taken all these losses and move forward and become something wonderful. And I just I just don't think there's a I understand people have physical impediments I wrote, I understand that 100% I have friends that are ex-military that have lost their limbs and lost everything. And, but they still think forward so they what can they do my friend Trevor walk and he was a top black hole couple of pilots went down and Afghanistan’s some people on you got killed in the accident, he broke his back he's never walked again, even though he wants to. Instead of that he got into the shooting sports on competitive pistol shooter. And now, he runs events and now runs a bunch of people in wheelchairs and runs events for people that are missing body parts and then it's become this beautiful amazingly strong, powerful event and everyone supports it. Because they’re always thinking forward you can't dwell on what you've lost you gotta fight for what you got.

Nadine Vogel: Well and it's also you know and Norma you and I have talked about this that you know it's not what happens to you in life it's what to do with it that really counts, right. That makes that difference and so we're going to go to commercial break, but when we come back Greg I’d love for you to share with us, I remember you taught me something about the warriors code and living by the warriors code and I think that most people don't know what that is and how, especially from a mental health standpoint, it can really make a difference, so stay tuned so listeners will be back in just a minute.

Voiceover: And now, time for a commercial break.

COMMERCIAL BREAK

Voiceover: And now, back to our show.

Nadine Vogel: Hello, and welcome back to disabled lives matters podcast and movement of course this is Nadine Vogel and I’m joined by Norma Stanley. So we have the amazing incredible Greg Dan Borssum with us today, and we are talking about mental toughness and just disability of you know, the neck up. And what really can be done if you put your mind to it, and one of the things we started on just before we broke for commercial was something that Greg you had talked about in the past that I remember very, very vividly, which is about thankful the warriors code and that you spent a lot of time kind of figuring out what that was and how to apply it so could you share that.

Greg Van Borssum: I can well it's, it's funny because we focus so much and I learned this the hard way, because when I was at the top of my professional sort of bodybuilding career. And I was the biggest externally and most strong and powerful looking that I’ve ever been I was most self-conscious of most afraid that I’d ever been. And I realized, I had to step away from that and get back to what was inside, because I had to re-ground myself. And all my user martial art training taught me that there's so much more to learn and so much more to do, which is the reason why, if you look at a black belt a true black, not the monkeys you see run around with like black belts on these days. When you see a true black belt, the belt is actually made by charades people to make them that the belt is made with your name on it before they actually make the belt and they wrap the black stuff around the actual white belt, so the longer you've been training, the more the black fades away. And the white reveals, which means you're always a beginner and you're always learning so, the more you think you know the less you know and the journey continues, and I think that's what we've lost we keep this level of entitlement this level of you know we don't need to work, the things and we have an expectation, now we aren’t prepared to go the hard yards, and I think we've fallen into victim status with a lot of things today. Everyone’s a victim everyone's suffering and everything it's like you know what we came from warriors we came from hunter and gatherers we came from people that have fought for generations and generations survived just to be here. We are all so fortunate to just be sitting here today. To have life is so much amazing more amazing than people that go, I just want to end it it's like you know what there's so much to live for people just don't see the positives that are out there. So, I had to study deeply inside and find out what that all was about and what the warriors sort of code and I don't really, I don't call it a code it's a warrior mindset. How do I tap the problem, how do I look for the solution, how do I search for the opening it's like when you watch kids fighting with swords, they hit sword on sword. When in truth sword work, you're meant to be looking for the opening. It’s like why people have car crashes they look at the car they're going to hit my go straight into it rather looking for the opening of the side of the vehicle, the square of the vehicle around it. And my way of thinking is to always find the opening, you know something doesn't work, how do you find a way that does toys away before there's always a way that to find it find an answer. And I learned everything firsthand because I’m self-taught and all the things I’ve done, I never I never went to school for filmmaking I’m self-taught I was a carpenter, the only thing I could go to school for was carpentry. I was a carpenter and hated being a carpenter, so I taught myself at night how to make movies, and you make all the mistakes but if you have what I call passion through pragmatism or pragmatism through passion. You know if you love something enough to be obsessed by you will find the way and you'll find discipline and discipline is just means basically that you get your bum in gear every single morning and you do it, no matter how you feel. You know, I think every one of us has a little voice on either shoulder every morning we wake up and you can either sit up and listen to the one that tells you to lie back down and forget about it. When you guys get up and it's a battle you go to win every single day, and somedays you get up regardless we're losing that fight, and you go, you know what I’ve got to move forward anyway.

Nadine Vogel: Right

Greg Van Borssum: Because plenty of times in your life and I don't care what you suffer from this plenty of times we all go through stuff again what's the point, unless you the light the end of the tunnel. And you’ve got to get out of your own way. That’s the discipline that’s the warrior spirit, where you go I don't give a rat's backside if there's 1000 people in front, Ii'm going to fight through those thousand people to get to the goal I’ve got to get to that's the mindset when you get back to because we all have that and the biggest thing we've forgotten is that part of us there's so much more we have and I pushed my students to the hills. Everyone on my march last year, I had kids in tears tonight. Because I work them so hard, though there are tears but guess what when they finished doing the hundred push-ups at age eight years of age when they finished 100 sit ups and the hundred squat kicks in their stuff. They run out until their parents, mom, dad, guess what I just did 100 of this and 100 this they're so proud. And I told them I said, your parents can do this. And suddenly this kids building pride and if they worked with the tears there going to be tough, because I told them, life's going to be tough and I tell them is going to be roughly get out there, and you need to be prepared for it, so, if I can push you and make you work past what you think your barriers are and find new barriers and break them and break the next ones. You're going to find that warrior spirit that you realize, you are much stronger than you ever dreamed you were and you're going to fight for the next thing you go find people won't be able to knock you down you'll always get back to your fate and always go another route.

Nadine Vogel: Right, absolutely.

NORMA STANLEY: Absolutely, that is so true, one of the things that I learned as a mother of a daughter with intellectual and physical disabilities is that you know I learned up need to take care of her, and in doing so, I learned that you know those barriers that I thought were there actually I found a way around them, and you have to find a way around all the barriers. Because they’re going to be there you just got underway, but you find a way, make a way.

Greg Van Borssum: It's from the great leaders of all you know they talked about that they talk about you know, make a way, find a way to do something, you find the way you will find a way. If you're if you really have a want to get somewhere, you will make it happen and if you don't know how long it's going to take this as a one of the great lessons I learned, is it. Everything I’ve ever done in my life, and I’ve been fortunate to take a lot of things to a global level. And it's been through hard work, but everything takes he is the shortest thing I ever did I think was my public speaking accreditation that took me five years. And that was everyday, people don't see the work you do. You want to be great at something it's always what I say to my students it's the work you do when no one else is watching that makes a difference. I’ve sat in my studio every night and I practiced and I practiced for hours and hours and hours of free speaking recording watching speakers, I never stopped and I’m very obsessive when I do something and I made it to that, but it was still five years. My pistol shooting World Championship was seven years, my bodybuilding was eight years, my getting the movie for 15 years it's like there's no promise there's no guarantee of success there's no money. You just got to keep going with the hope and heart in yourself that you have what it takes to make the faith that you've got the skills and you'll get the mustard inside yourself to keep fighting forward, no matter what happens. And people are quitting too fast, these days, and you know I’d prefer to I prefer to keep going to my life and not get there and then realize that the end that it was still a great journey. Think, I would have been wonder if I could have. Because you never know what's around the next corner. I’ve made it to the end of and go well, I never thought I get it like I failed in my accreditation three times you know or twice before with the third one, but that's a year between each one. You know the first one that video wasn't good enough, the second one, the stage was a stuff up, and so you keep coming back, and you can either end everyone goes to the moment of getting hung up on us stepping, I’m quitting this, it sucks you know you everyone goes through that. But then. two seconds okay all right I’m booking and do it again. Because you can't quit on yourself but there's one of those things that you if it gets ingrained in you, you’ll quit forever and you cannot do that because I tell people everything I’m known for now as an adult the strength, the martial arts, the filmmaking in the speaking we're all my greatest fears as a child.

Nadine Vogel: No, absolutely.

Greg Van Borssum: Let it go towards your fears you got to put your face in the fire and you got to be willing to take what happens.

NORMA STANLEY: Hear the fear and do it anyway.

Nadine Vogel: That's right. Well Greg you know, you and I we've talked a lot about you know folks who can't see that they can't get past some of this and they tried to die by suicide. Hopefully, not successfully, but I know that you've done a lot of work in that space, so you know what's the message you know, obviously it is the message to them as well, what you're saying, but if they can't get themselves to see through that day, what do they do.

Greg Van Borssum: The hardest thing with mental health and suicide is that the amount of people that feel alone. And when you're suffering and I’ve been there, I know how it feels and when you when you're going through a problem, especially you know, especially men we don’t talk about things we keep it all inside. When you're going through a problem you feel like it's just you and you feel like no one understands and you feel like you're going to be a burden and that you're not worthy and you're not you're not valuable and what I truly believe what causes suicide isn't one thing I think it's a whole heap of events thrown together, so you lose your job missing your wife leaves your husband leaves you then you lose your home and you know you lose your money and it goes bing bing bing bing and I equated to a martial arts when I get someone in a very strong joint lock. So if I get you an unfair wrist lock, for example, and I do it very slowly. When I do it slowly, what actually happens is you get strengthened you get stronger you get tougher you hold up and suddenly you're fighting back and hit me. But if I do quickly the human body has a natural cut off chemical that releases to make you drop to stop you getting injured. And I think that's what happens to us mentally it becomes too much pain in a short period of time, and we just go, you know what's the point of this. Because we found out the suicide is very impulsive so when all the Suicide Prevention bridges got the covers on them over here in Australia, the suicide rate on bridges went down by 90%. Because people when they go up, I can't do it well I’ll go home and maybe I’ll do it tomorrow, and tomorrow might be another day a better day, where things aren't so bad and. And the biggest thing is for people is when someone is struggling everybody knows their friends. But there's this small sign that people miss and I always talk about these signs that they're very physical you know when someone becomes distant when someone becomes more disheveled their work they take extra sick days they turn up late, they're drinking more that they're sitting there smoking 25 cigarettes telling you they're fine like if you see these things reach in and help them out because people won't reach out for help. You know people can reach out and call me and no one's ever going to call you jam the phone throw it up your backside because no one's ever going to ring it, you have to reach in and help them out and it's much better to do face to face. Because people love face to face and that one minute, how do you actually give someone that releases that oxytocin after one minute hug and does actually physically clinically proven to make you feel better releases an amazing chemical in the body which just makes you feel joy and you also know, someone cares. You can do that do a zoom call if you can't do that do a phone call do something, but always try and make it a physical condition it's really important and let people know they're not alone. When I did a speech in Colorado a couple of years back, and I was couple of thousand people in the audience, and I’ve got them all to shut their eyes. I said I want you to raise your hand if you've ever felt days didn't want to get up felt there was no hope in life if you've been directly affected by suicide, I said raise your hands. Every single hand went up I said now open your eyes and look around, I said your never alone. Everyone's going through something everyone's going through something or they're coming out of something and everyone understands. So don't be afraid to say I’m having a hard time a little thing about raising hands up and saying you know I’m struggling help me. It's one and we can't be worried about being judged by people and if people are judging that they're not good people anyway.

Nadine Vogel: That's for sure.

Greg Van Borssum: We have to be more human; I think, human beings were missing the humanity but, at the moment. You know we're definitely beings but we're not human and we've stepped away from what we should be, we need to get back to the fact of being humanity and community like community helps each other.

Nadine Vogel: Right.

Greg Van Borssum: And I did a wonderful speaking event, with a friend of mine in the states a few years back when we did this community one Mississippi and so many people came out and so many people embraced each other, and everyone got enough and that was community. We need more of that we need that back because we were really separating each other, and we need to fight to get their back.

Nadine Vogel: Well, and especially now, you know in covid, we've been at this covid thing for over a year. And you know you said something about you know people not feeling alone, you know there's other people here, but I think that during covid people are feeling very alone. And feeling, you know isolation, especially if they're working from home and we're finding that more and more people who prior to covid did not say that they had any mental health issues. Are feeling like they do now and then I was reading a statistic, actually from the White House yesterday that as many as 30% of folks who have had covid are going to be long haulers. Meaning that those you know the symptoms are going to last for quite a long time, and that when they do go back to the workplace they're going to need even more in terms of accommodations and things like that so Greg talk about that, I mean you know covid is real and everybody is dealing with it in different ways, but you know if you have you’re a long hauler and how is this going to impact them.

Greg Van Borssum: And look it’s going to affect everyone differently depending on the mental state before you went into an afterwards, but also how to fix it financially, you know you take the money out of the situation. You know you strip it away from something you've increased that situation tenfold. Because the amount of stress and pressure that brings to the life, now that you know you know yourself, we've all had those months we go geez am I going to make them that bill. And, and when your money's cut and like I don't know what's happening states over the financial stuff, but that stuff all finished here for people, you know so all the all the government handouts finished. And so, people that run this thing called shopkeeper it's stopped, so I still know there's more people that are going to lose their jobs and other things so there’s more to come and it's all that side of it it's going to be worse, I think, then the covid crisis, I think, because the crisis is a financial crisis more than anything that the people will handle I think the medical side of things we've got a our system at here medical wise is very different from the US with a very big public system that people don't have to pay for medical you know, to be seen medically. I know in the states is a different animal and so we have that at least but. You know I think financially, people are still going to struggle, I think that's going to be the biggest downfall that's going to play into depression and there's been a plan to anxiety and that's going to play the all the other things and that's a very quick to cascade I mean. I call the vortex of negativity where you start off here and suddenly you go down, then it becomes a very slippery slope, and that last pit piece of the puzzle is very compacted. You know you go for somebody who's been off today and then tomorrow they're gone. And they don't necessarily have to make a plan people go they've had met know that people sometimes just impulsively do stuff and we have to, if they're our friends, and we think they're different and we think there's something happening, we think they're showing signs of depression or anxiety and you've got to reach in and talk to them. And let them know you're there for them with them and the three big words, we need to use with it with everybody we're friends with us, we end together. Because when we are going through an issue mentally, we feel it's me it's me I’m alone but it's not a few reaching ago you have an ally, you have a friend. We will get through this together, together will make this happen, we will get help some of you've got a friend that you know you can trust them together you feel like there's something to do with.

Nadine Vogel: Well, I think that's you know we're out of time, so, unfortunately, but I think that's a great way to end this right us, we and together, I love that so Greg I know that you speak globally, how can folks get in touch with you, if they'd like to hear more from you have their companies hear more from you, what's the best way to engage.

Greg Van Borssum: So my website is gvbmindwarriors.com.au, and that has everything on it from my speaking with people want me to speak to my martial law school to my speakers academy to all the stuff we do. All my YouTube stuffs on there, you can directly click on that my mind worry minutes and things and yeah we're really trying to push up the ante to help people move forward and I think it's if we get them young and the reason I started the martial arts school speakers academy see if I can help kids young they don't have to fix them when they're broken and the older. You know and biggest thing for adults and two if you think you got this release you don't get mental disabilities are anything so step up and find a way find a way to move forward to get towards where you want to go and remember midlife is now 40 years. everyone's forgotten that we all wake up and we think we're dead at 40 now we got 40 more years of stuff to do so, keep achieving keep working to what strains and I don't care if its tiny little things keep moving forward that's what it's all about and enjoy the journey because it's a fun one.

Nadine Vogel: What a great way to end, Norma oh my gosh this is has been such an amazing session hasn’t it.

NORMA STANLEY: Speaking my language here.

Nadine Vogel: Well, ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed this podcast with Greg Van Borssum, and my co-host Norma Stanley and we will see you next time on disabled lives matter bye-bye everybody.

Closing comment: [Music playing in background.] Thank you for listening to this week's episode of disabled lives matter. We look forward to seeing you next Thursday. Have a great week!

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