Are you tired of feeling unheard and unseen in your relationships? Do you struggle with finding a shared reality with your partner? If so, you’re not alone. Many of us struggle to navigate the complexities of human interaction and connection. But the good news is, with the right tools and mindset, you can improve your relationships and create a deeper sense of connection and understanding with those around you.
In this episode, Dr. Heather Browne shares some actionable steps and practical advice for creating a shared reality in your relationship and improving communication and connection with your loved ones. From identifying and expressing your needs to holding boundaries and creating space for growth and healing, this episode is packed with valuable insights and strategies for building stronger, more fulfilling relationships.
As a relationship expert, Dr. Heather Browne has worked with thousands of individuals and couples in psychotherapy. She is published in hundreds of journals, has an active YouTube channel, has been featured on ABC-7 news, was the relationship expert on KDOC Daybreak OC, and is published in Inc., The Toronto Sun, Thriving Family Magazine, Light + Life, and Psychology Today. She is a regular guest blogger for both Links for Shrinks and for Marriage Friendly Therapists.
In this Episode
7:36 Dr. Browne’s personal experience that inspired her to help couples.
11:33 Relationship: A place for growth and learning.
19:18 Ownership of ourselves and how we choose to perceive things.
24:25 Navigating difficult conversations in relationships.
31:23 Navigating differences and maintaining connection: The art of empathy and holding multiple truths.
34:21 The importance of curiosity in a healthy relationship.
39:26 Navigating the balance of self-care and caring for others.
44:29 The process of growth and transformation in relationships, emphasizing the importance of communication, curiosity, and compassion.
53:00 Where to find a variety of resources and learn more about her and her work.
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About Today’s Show
Dr. Heather Browne, thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Yes, and I’m grateful that we’re going to be talking about the story that a couple shares about their history, their relationship. Just before we get into the content of what you have to share with us here about this topic, I’m interested if you’re willing to share what prompted the interest in supporting this particular area of couples.
I’d love to. It comes out of my childhood. I was raised by a mom who was a paranoid schizophrenic. So her story changed based upon her ability to be in this reality or realities that I was not familiar with. So the idea of us having our own stories and trying to find those places where we connect within our stories, and then those places where we’re completely lost with others, became very profound. Then led to me wanting to work with people and trying to help them learn, how do you walk alongside someone whose story is very different and has a different reality? But then learn to love them, and hopefully, help them heal themselves and their process in part of that unity of a relationship? Which I find really beautiful, and very sacred.
Wow. Well, this sounds incredibly personal, in the sense of like where you recognize the impact and the power of a narrative, and also how different it can be, and if I’m hearing you correctly, how also revealing it can be; where somebody is coming from, their orientation, their perspective. It sounds as if, the way I’m hearing you is, the goal isn’t necessarily to have the same story in couplehood. But really, being able to honor the story, and perhaps through a development, there can be more integration of a story that is more shared. I don’t know if I’m hearing that.
You’re hearing it perfectly. When people come to me for counseling, and couples is one of my specialties, what I tell them is I have three entities that I’m working with: the partner, the other partner, and then the relationship. I tell people that the relationship is my primary. But it is the same in life. There’s me, there’s you, and then there’s what’s us? Us can help strengthen where the one person might need more strength; it might uplift. And also, if we are not very careful, it can also harm and injure. So there’s a beautiful place of finding out, who are we in partnership? How do we show up for ourselves and for one another? Do we give room for figuring this out moment by moment when we’re wobbling, or a little unsure of ourselves or our partner’s intentions? That’s an important place to be able to talk through and walk through and figure out who are we right now. And the knowledge that we can change that in every single moment if it’s not serving us, and how beautiful that is! That’s a place of my couples’ work that I’m always surprised that people don’t realize.
“Just because something has been the same till now does not mean it needs to completely be the same any moment longer, if it doesn’t bless you and serve you and help you and support you.”
Yes. I mean, what I’m hearing you speak to is perhaps a more empowering intention that does support the relationship, and both individuals, ideally, and that the process of getting there can be very transformative. I’ll just say, in any therapeutic work, the awareness and the deeper understanding can be so transformational. That can help us see from a different perspective, a different orientation. That can be so much more liberating and empowering.
Absolutely. And isn’t that really the reason why we’re in a relationship, to bring out the parts of us that we’re not quite able to do on our own? Because a relationship is different than me by myself. Now I really need to care about you, and work toward the goals that you have, and also work for not the way I see myself, but work toward the way that you see me. That takes us to a whole nother way of experiencing ourselves. It’s really not so much “I think I’m this.” It’s “How do you receive me, and how do we work with that to keep helping each other in that place of growth?” I think relationship is, in my experience, the deepest place of learning how to walk that in a myriad of ways, which to me is more inclusive than the individual walk. But certainly, you need to have done a lot of your own work before you can be pretty healthy in a relationship.
Or just be really in service of growth, and that that is part of the individual intention for me and my work. I agree with you, I couldn’t emphasize that enough. It was actually one of the aspects that came out of my dissertation. It was a meta-analysis, and one of the things was really seeing relationship as an opportunity for growth. Even an aspect of that is that what gets evoked is really an opportunity, or even showing a mirror, or presenting curriculum, if you will. So I couldn’t agree with you more.
That’s the story of us. What is the image I’m getting back in the mirror? Because that is you, but it’s also me. And where am I not liking what I’m seeing in this moment of mirroring? I tell clients, and they get it, when we’re trying to talk about mirroring. I’ll say, if you see somebody doing something and you think “Oh my gosh, I would never do that,” then there isn’t a challenge there in the reflection. But you know when you’re talking to somebody, and you feel like they’re being really judgmental with you, and your response is, “Wow, they’re really judgmental,” is to look at, “Okay, so where’s the part of me that that now is touching upon, where is that pulse point right now? Because that is really me being aware of that, I could otherwise just let them be them.” So in a close relationship, be it a lover, or be it a dear friend, or even a child, the story of us becomes what starts to rise up to the surface, and how is this person here to help you with that? I’ve heard a saying where people will say, “This is God before you, and this is the message from God.” And whatever your spirituality can be, you can say anything in that place.
“If you look at the people who are significant in your life in that way, they do start to become part of your future “you,” if you allow it. That’s in both ways, helpful, and maybe not too.”
Heather, I want to slow down. Because there’s something that just keeps echoing in my head that I know a lot of couples and people get stuck in, and what you’re describing seems very different. So I’m going to reflect it back to you, and I would love to hear your thoughts. So the thing that’s in my mind is how often and how easy and human it is to get stuck in content, to try to almost replay the facts and get some footing around what we’re talking about. That can go on and on, because potentially people see it differently and never will arrive to this consensus around what happened. So what I’m hearing you describe, which seems very different is, what is the process here? How are we being? What are the themes, what are the things that are getting evoked? And can I turn towards that in a way of is there any grain of truth here, can I wonder about this? It’s almost as if the way in which we’re being in relationship, and how I’m experiencing the other, how I’m experiencing what’s happening internally, that’s the thing that you’re really wanting to put some light on.
Yeah, absolutely right. Because people will say to me, “Well, but that’s not the truth.” And what I’ll say is, well, maybe not for you. And I’ll tell clients, you think you’re right, and you are 100% right for you, and your partner is 100% right for them. That’s fine. But you’re in a relationship. So the focus for us needs to be, how are you together? And when someone gets into that place of “I’m now going to tell you the 5,000 times you’ve done this in the past,” I will rather quickly jump in and say, you guys probably have done this a lot at home, at least the 5,000 times, but you’re here to make a change. So how, right now, can we do this differently? Since you’re professing this has not worked 5,000 times, let’s not do it the same now. How can we do this differently now? And they sit with egg on their face and don’t know what to do, and they don’t know what to say. Because they’re so used to that pattern and that rut. I say, it’s okay, we’re just going to stay here until we figure it out. But we’re going to figure this out together.
And it goes to the other side, moving away from the aspect of “I’m either going to put you down or blame you, or point out your faults.” Everything is a duality, everything is contrast. So I can either do that, or I can make a request. I can say, “I hate it when you do this, and I hate it when you do this, and you always do this, and this is frustrating.” Or I could say, “Hey, would you be willing to?” And what I share with my clients, and what I believe in my heart dearly, is that when I make a request, I have a much bigger opportunity for it to happen. And the biggest place is, I realize it’s a request and you might say no, and that is your choice. Then I have to deal with that in whatever way I will.
As I’m hearing you, and as we’re talking about the narrative and the story, it sounds as if one of the things that I am hearing you assist people with is being able to, the way it’s ringing in me, is this sense of ownership around what gets activated or what is being experienced. Because a moment ago, you were talking about people have choices. If there’s material that’s getting presented, they can reject it and say, “Oh, I’m not going there.” Or they can get interested and get curious. Or perhaps, even the way you’re describing right now is, they can get blamey or critical, or “Don’t you see?” And when we turn something into a request, part of what I understand about that is being able to own it. “This is something that I want, or this is something that has value and meaning to me.” And maybe even sharing a little bit about how that is significant, what the charge is and where that maybe comes from as far as the importance. Then when we can reveal that, that can be way more vulnerable than just the pointing, or “Don’t you see? Or let me show you what you did. Let’s replay what just happened, don’t you see what a jerk you are?” Or whatever. I don’t know, in my understanding, what you’re describing in this way that requires some ownership and really standing in, “Here’s what matters to me when we make a request.”
Absolutely. And on a really large level, isn’t our life about our ownership of ourselves? That includes how we choose to perceive things or look at things. I had someone, who I know pretty well, say to me, “I need to ask you a question, but I think you’re going to be really pissed off.” In my head, I thought, well, just don’t ask me that question then. And I thought, “Hmm, this is interesting.” And I said, “Okay, well, maybe I can just let it be a question.” She said, what do you mean? I said, “Well, I think it’ll depend upon how I choose to respond, so go ahead.” So she asked her question, and if I had not had that little insight, I would have gone to feeling that she was being self-righteous, that she was being critical, that she was being judgmental. But I told myself, “Okay, I don’t like this energy that’s coming toward me. I don’t like this thought process that’s coming toward me. This is not my reality. This is hers, and I can let it be hers. And I can take a really deep breath, and respond in mind.” So I just simply said, “No, that’s not what I believe, and that’s not what I think, and I’m actually great. And you can ask me any questions that you want about this.” And she just looked at me, and her eyes got really big. She said, I’m so impressed with your response. And I laughed, and I said, so am I! But there’s something I realized in that moment.
“When someone comes towards you or into your field, into your us-ness, and their energy is one that is much lower in vibration—it doesn’t feel as honoring, it doesn’t feel as loving, it doesn’t feel as supportive—that it’s up to you to decide. Do I lower myself to it, or do I let myself stay where I am? Most of us, sadly, jump right back into theirs, and fight back, argue about, point the finger.”
I wanted to say to her, “Are you kidding me? You have known me for 30 something years. Are you kidding me?” And I know what she would have said. She would have said, “Wow, it was just a question.” So I took away my joining in a place that didn’t benefit us. And to me, that’s the beautiful choice of the story of us. You can decide, do I join you here or do I not?
I had it happen with my daughter, when there had been a misunderstanding, and she needed to get a shot. This was a couple years ago. And she went to the wrong place, and it was a lot of money. And it was last moment, so we had to pay for it. And she’s very conscientious of not trying to waste money for me, because I’m a widow, which I really appreciate. So she was frustrated on the phone call. I said, “I’m so sorry, you’re so frustrated.” And she said to me, “Well, I wasn’t until we got on the phone.” And I went, “Oh, we’ll talk about this tonight.” So she hung up, she came into my room that night, really frustrated, really angry. She said, “You didn’t tell me, and I didn’t know, dah dah dah.” And I looked at her and I said, “We are not in the same reality. I’m all good, and I’d love to have a lovely night with you all fine.” Then she kept going with her little narrative. I said, “Sweetheart, I want you to listen to your voice, and the way your body feels. And listen to mine, and the way my body feels. You can join my reality, which is, I’m just going to hug you and love you, and we can watch a movie and have a great night. But you’re asking me to join you in yours, and I don’t like the energy, so I’m not going to. So it’s up to you, you choose. Either is fine.” She looked at me and she said, “Mom, what’s going on?”
This is what I think is, like, Relationship 1001. Right now, we both get to choose for ourselves. And if we’re really, really gracious, right now we can choose something really beautiful for us. And we had the most glorious, simple, peaceful night, and we just hugged each other and cried. And she said, I love you so much. I said, I love you so much. But that’s the story of us. How do we take a moment where one of us is hurting, one of us is frustrated, one of us is confused, one of us doesn’t understand? And how do we bring enough space, compassion, choice, self-decision and ownership, to let it move into something that can bless both people? Sometimes, you need to do that separately, and that’s okay. That’s okay, too.
Yes. Okay, so I just want to, again, chime in here, in the sense of just checking a few things out with you. As you are describing these examples, it sounds as though you are so crystal clear, and able to really have awareness around your space, and really being in service of the intention that you want to hold. And also, in some sense, asserting a boundary for that, in service of that. One of the things that I heard you describing a moment ago is when maybe one person leads with what could feel like an attack, or is out of fear, or out of pain—it might be a protest, it might sound critical or judgmental—the human tendency is to want to defend against that, or maybe even react against that. So you’re really speaking to a choice here.
I also wonder, in addition to the choice of setting parameter and holding and being in service of the intention that you’re wanting to hold, that perhaps another way of seeing that attack is that there’s something there. Like, even with your friend, that might have been her best attempt to reach to you, and an attempt to resolve it or clear it. But she didn’t necessarily say, “Here’s what I’m afraid of, can you help me?”
It’s a very beautiful awareness you have in that, Jessica! That is beautiful. It would have been so much easier for me to receive in that way, and you’re right, she didn’t. But to even be in that place. And I honor what you just said, that people bring to you the best way that they know how and where they are. And if you take that, it might be with an attacker judgement. But if you realize that’s really all that they know how to do, that does put a little bit of a softening to the experience, if you can allow that.
It’s a ninja move! Like, I don’t know that I am always able to do that, but if I have my ground and I can recognize. Because part of what you’re also distinguishing around one person’s field, and then the other person’s field, is that as humans, it’s really easy to point the finger. And it can be a lot of projection, and you’re talking about the other person. And that gets off and running in the criticism defensive loop. But one of the things you’re really bringing attention to is, you don’t have to pick that up, you don’t have to react to that; you do have a choice. And the ninja move that we’re referencing here is, is there a way to be witnessed? Like, the story with your daughter, I know and I imagine she felt seen and she felt like her experience was held, even though you didn’t get into the reaction with her. But it sounds as though the softening and the tears and the affection being expressed, she did feel seen and honored. Even though you didn’t necessarily share it, you could still hold her pain around it, and you were probably able to respond to that, especially when it’s much more vulnerable. Is that right?
Absolutely. I think I was oddly blessed, or I chose to be blessed, in the reality of my childhood, which was really, really hard. But what it showed me from a really young age, is that relationship is always more important than the situation. And I haven’t had people necessarily respect that with me, always. I’ve had some people who have chosen to step out of relationship, which to me is just like, “Oh gosh, how sad. But if that’s what they need to do for them to feel safe, or to feel protective, if I’m somehow a threat, okay.” I think part of the place where, to me, it seems so odd to be a threat, is that I really do try to love. And some people just aren’t comfortable with that, and they really want or need the person to stand with them in their belief system. I’ll stand near someone and say, “I see you standing there, but I don’t necessarily need to stand with you.” That to a lot of people—I won’t say a lot, but to some people—can feel like you are not truly caring for them. And I disagree. I think the relationship is more important than the issue that you’re going through. I share that with clients all the time. I’m like, what is the most important thing here? Is it the car? Is it the meatloaf? Is it the Visa bill? Or is it the two of you and what we help this to become in spite of what you’re going through? I say that with infidelity.
“I tell people, you’ll never go back to what you were. There’s no way to do it. You can never go back to anything; you can only move forward. Even if you try to go back, it’s a replication, which makes it different because it’s now. But what I say is, you will never be better because of an infidelity. You can’t be. But there are ways that your relationship can be stronger in spite of it if—and it’s a big If—if you’re both willing, as if you’re both able.”
But I heard something on a podcast with Matthew Hussey, who’s a relationship expert out of England, and he said something and it was such a deep truth. And it was so hard for me to hear, because I didn’t want it to be the truth. But it was so true. He was talking with a woman who had a horrible challenge with trusting people. And what he said, it was so honoring, but my ego didn’t like it. What he said is, “Well, why are you wasting your time trying to trust other people? Who knows that they’re going to be trustworthy? They could do anything in a moment! The focus isn’t to trust them. The focus is to trust yourself, that you’ll take care of you.” And my heart broke open, and then my heart also went, “Oh, I want to have somebody I can totally trust who will take care of me, other than me?” Then I thought, isn’t this our life path: I will take care of me, do I let you take care of you? And if we both do that, then we can have this beautiful relationship together. Because I’m not going to put myself more important than you in the relationship; we’re both going to be. And at times, we might need to trust ourselves and do what we need to do. But there’s no reason for it to ever dishonor the other, unless we choose to look at it that way, which I think is very sad. Because we’re never going to be the same as somebody else; we’re not here to be the same.
It sounds too, Heather, when you’re talking and even referencing your experience and your environment growing up, and really what you were negotiating in maintaining connection and bond with your mother, when the realities would be so, so different. It sounds like you really had heavy, heavy, heavy-lifting around how to negotiate that. And it sounds like you have a lot of skill, and being able to emphasize the bond and really the unconditional regard. And not to say, you don’t have conditions. But the capacity to hold love, to hold regard and hold connection, despite maybe even vast differences. That might be really foreign for people to try to experience, and there’s something about that. Let me just pause there, does that feel like a reflection that resonates?
Yes, and it’s the reason people come to me. I’m known as the Reframe Queen in Orange County, because I have the ability to see the other side. Not that it’s necessarily my truth, but I have the ability to see the other side. So I help people find those places of bridges. So I can hold my truth, but I don’t need to dishonor you and yours.
Well, I want to turn to that in just a moment. Because that is a question as we talk about the story and the narrative, and you’re talking about perhaps, two partners in relationship might have very different stories, and then through the work and through the process, may be able to have some integration and a shared story that is empowering. As you’re describing, perhaps initially, people in your life that you’ve had some conflict with might have challenged with your orientation. And one of the things I’m feeling as you’re describing it is like, “Oh, are they feeling like you’re able to really see them and see the truth of where they’re coming from?” It sounds like you are. But it also sounds like you do not abandon yourself. You are crystal clear that I don’t have to abandon my truth, my intention, my position to join you! That’s not it, it’s not that type of process.
Can you speak to how somebody, let’s say your daughter, can feel seen and feel really empathized and held? Like, her experience that she really feels seen, but that you don’t maybe agree or have the same experience, and that you can hold both. That’s not an easy thing to do. In psychology, we call that like some dissonance; cognitive dissonance, emotional dissonance. It’s not the same, holding two different parts. Can you speak to that?
Sure. For me, it’s the reality that I will never really know what you think, or how you see things, or what your experience is. And you spoke earlier of curiosity. To me, that’s such a huge component of a healthy relationship. So when someone expresses something that I don’t understand, or I just don’t get whatsoever, instead of me making a judgment upon it, or deciding my belief system around it, once again, I take a deep breath, and then I try to find out. My daughter is an artist. So when we were in Europe, and we were at these beautiful museums, and I was taking all these photos of the whole painting, she was zeroing in on one corner. I said to her, what are you seeing? And she would show me, “Well, do you see how the pink right next to the blue? Stand back, do you see how that illuminates it? So now you start to see that edge.” I’m like, oh my gosh!
So this is my truth. I could not see through my mother’s eyes. I couldn’t, and I don’t even really know where she went, because she didn’t share where she went in her psychosis. But I knew she was struggling. So when I was 12, there was a moment where she was fearful that the helicopters going over the house were going to come and get her. And my dad did what my dad did every single time, which is, “Jenny, it’s not real. You’re crazy. It’s not going to happen.” And I was watching my mom get more and more and more and more scared. I knew his telling her that her psychosis was not reality was not doing any good for her. So my thought was, what does she need? She needed to feel safe. So I grabbed my blanket, and I threw it over her head, and I cuddled up with her. And I said, “They’re not going to get you, mommy! They’re not going to get you.” And she shook and shook and shook, and the helicopters went over. I told her they were gone, and she could come out, and she didn’t. Then when she finally came out, she looked up at me, and her eyes said, you believe me! Now there’s a little caveat, because I didn’t believe her psychosis.
But you believed her fear.
Yes, and I believe she believed her psychosis. That’s all I needed to know. And that is the moment where to me, God/ Spirit/Universe said, “This is why you’re here. You are to bring comfort, support, love, compassion, joy, happiness, another belief system. But you’re not to challenge somebody who’s not ready, able, willing, wanting to be challenged. Just because it’s not your Reality does not mean it’s not theirs.” So I don’t need anyone to believe what I believe, and my focus is not you need to believe me. My focus is, what am I to know about you, and how do I help you in your walk, and where do we find these places where we do join and can celebrate together, and where are there places where I can learn so much because I don’t experience that? Like, I look at paintings differently now because of my daughter, and how beautiful that is. That’s part of the story of us, she has now given me a different awareness about painting. My husband was physical touch. I was molested; it was the lowest on my love languages. He, bless his beautiful heart, gave me the gift of physical touch, and I love physical touch now, and I miss it dreadfully since he’s passed. But we can give each other, other awarenesses and other ways of loving that we don’t know. To me, that’s why we’re here.
Yeah. Well, it sounds like the richness that can be so expansive when we do have some rapport, that relationship, that curiosity, that some level of safety, to be able to be influenced or even be interested in such a different perspective, that can bring growth. I know we don’t have a tonne of time with you. So I wanted to just circle back to a couple of things. I don’t know, I had mentioned not abandoning yourself. I just even know, many people who grow up in circumstances that require a high degree of awareness of the parent, not to say that you felt like you had to parent her, but in that moment.
I did, for sure.
Okay. So can you speak to was it a development for you to really also attend to yourself? I mean, it sounds like you’ve gotten to a really beautiful place with it. Was that a development for you?
It’s been my whole life. Bless her beautiful, beautiful heart. She was so not well that I really didn’t feel like I had a voice. I really didn’t feel like I had any choice other than I took on the role of keeping her alive. I would stay up at night to make certain she wouldn’t kill herself, and I did all sorts of things. So there’s been a lot of therapy, there’s been a lot of healing, there have been a lot of books. But I want to tap upon something that you said that’s so important. Think about the phrase, “abandoning ourself.” Like, what’s going on in our world that we would require that of anyone or ourselves, and how can we be anything other than who we are until we decide or learn or choose to be other? So when we pretend we’re not, we still are. It’s like, if I don’t go to the doctor to find out I have cancer, because I don’t want to know I have cancer, I still have cancer. So this belief of “I don’t get to be me, or the world won’t let me be me” is hugely pervasive. But to me, there’s the place of asking, “Well, gosh, this is my life, and I am the only one who can be me. And I don’t need you to agree with me. But why would I abandon myself anymore?” It has been a long process of me learning to do that. I’ve been disowned twice; my mom died, and then my husband died. So I’ve gone through a tremendous amount of loss. But in that, I have to say, it’s really given me the beauty to say, “But I will choose me. And I can still choose you. But I’m not going to force myself upon you.”
Right. Or that it’s not the survival tactic, “This is the best way to function and survive because of my early experiences.” I can resonate with the importance of caring for others, and not being important way of keeping the peace or helping things function. And I’ve really worked a lot myself to really get to balance and health around that tendency. It’s still always a pull in me that I’ve noticed and I work with. So thank you for speaking to that.
Well, attachment is huge. Looking at that, when I take the test, I come off as secure, and I think I really am. But deep down in my soul, I’m anxious, and I need to embrace that. Because little Heather was scared to death, and there’s a little part of little Heather that’s going to be with me till I’m 90 years old. And I want to take care of her, just like it took care of my mom. I want to take care of little Heather when she’s scared. So to your listeners, that would be my hope for all of them. That you take care of you, and that you know that taking care of you in no way has to hinder or hurt or harm anybody else. There’s always room for more love, there’s always room for more compassion, and largely for ourselves as well.
Yeah. Well, Heather, the last thing I want to ask before we pivot towards just how people can get to know what you’re up to and teaching and offering, and this might be too difficult to speak to in just a few minutes. But the process of going from such different positions, different stories, and what the transformation can look like, and what might be needed to allow for that growth. Because one of the things I’m hearing in the way that you’re talking about is curiosity, as you’ve talked about, is this love. I’m also hearing a sense of space or time, that people tend to feel a sense of urgency. And you just mentioned, attachment can be very threatening when things are off or disconnected, that we need to push this to get to some place. And we also talked about how it is hard to hold, “We see this differently, and I still love you.” That can be a difficult thing to tolerate the discomfort of that. So it does feel like there’s some level of space or time to give it process. Because the curiosity, sometimes the getting to know, in the way that you described with your husband and his love language of touch and how that was a process for you and feeling safety and welcome in that, I imagine that just didn’t happen in one instant. So can you speak to the growth here, any nuggets that you want to speak to around how people go from two very different places and positions in their story to what the growth and what is needed in that process?
Sure. And you’re right, it’s a huge topic. To me, the place of exploration is letting each other know what the fear is, and letting each other know what the hurt is from the past, and then asking your partner, “I really need to heal on this, and I know this is mine to do? Is there a place that you can support me in this? Or is this something that I need to do on my own?” Sometimes, the answer is really going to be “No, this is something you need to do on your own.”
“Sometimes, and this is when a relationship just gets so beautifully holy and sacred in its work, sometimes there’s the place for the other person to be that safe container while you’re seeing a different reality.”
I had a flashback when I was with my husband. I remember telling him beforehand, I thought I was going to have a flashback. He said, have you ever had one before? And I said, no. He said, why would you have one? And I said, oh, because you’re really getting in. It was beautiful that I had that awareness that that was going to happen, and of course that did. So he was laying on top of me, we were fully dressed, nothing was going on, and I had a flashback to being molested by my dad. And I reached out across the room, and I was insane for sure. For a moment, I was absolutely psychotic. Like, “Don’t touch me!” Then I said, “Yeah, you can come to the corner of the bed, but don’t touch me.” And so he did. And I said, “You could put your hand on my knee, but don’t move your hand.” So he did. And then I said, “You can put your arms around my shoulders, but no groping.” And he did. And then I said, “Okay, you can just hold me.” And we just sobbed. And when I looked into his eyes, he said to me, what did he do to you? And I just felt even more madly in love with him, because Ted cared! And I told him, you’re the first man in my life who’s safe. Ted never pressured me. I was very blessed. Ted never pressured me to go to a place that sexually, I would be scared or petrified of. He always told me, “If we do anything or go anywhere, I want you to let me know how you’re feeling.” And so I did. So there’s that place of letting your partner know.
People will say they won’t share that they’ve been molested, that they won’t share they’ve been raped. And without meaning to, your partner is going to touch upon that horrible, horrible, horrible wound, and you’re probably going to be scarred even more, and they’re not going to mean to. So when there’s a part of you that you know really needs protection, protect it! And let your partner know, like, “I’m not comfortable with you going here. Or if we do go here, I kind of need it to be on my terms.” Walk them through that. Because they can’t heal you; no one can heal anybody else. But they can hold you or just stay while you’re going through your healing. And when you allow yourself to embrace yourself fully in healing, and when someone looks at you with positive regard, or compassion, or just tenderness in that place, there’s deep respect and love.
And profound healing!
Profound healing. And that is the gloriousness of the story of us, for sure.
Yes, thank you for sharing that. I’m deeply touched. I can feel the emotion and the intensity and the power and the willingness on both of your parts. So thank you for sharing that.
He was a beautiful man.
Yeah. Also, it does hook in to the last thing I’ll say here, as you mentioned, the piece about trust. It feels as though this is an example, and I like the two-pronged approach to the trust and safety. I agree that inevitably, there will be loss, and the relationship will end by some means. It’s inevitable, there’s no way it can’t. And the truth around that, and the control or the attempt to seek that assurance or that permanence in the other which doesn’t exist. I do think there’s reality in really confronting that and really turning that towards like, what’s happening in me around that. Then what you’re describing also in relationship with your husband, you trusted yourself to move forward with him that you said, “Okay, you can approach the bed, but don’t touch me.” You had your own back, and you were trusting yourself to take care of yourself. But you also were in relationship. And that your husband was safe, he was trustworthy, and he was demonstrating that. So that then there could be that resonance, that corrective experience, that healing in relationship, and I do think that is also necessary. So oftentimes, I think there’s a few things involved. I don’t know if you want to respond to that, but I just feel like that’s also important.
It is. And I knew at that moment, if he hadn’t listened to me, I probably would have stayed in the relationship. but it would not have gone to the level that it needed to or could have for me. And that’s what was really beautiful. But also in that, in having that experience, and I hope everyone has had something like that with someone. I think most of us probably have. Maybe it’s not a partner, but it might be a dear friend, who’s helped us walk through a place where we’ve really been hurt, to see that that doesn’t have to be our truth always. I would hope that you allow yourself to have that and to say, “Okay, no, we’re going to stop here, I’m just going to take care of me right now.” Because sometimes, your partner just is not going to have the awareness and the knowledge. There also is the place where they can feel rejected, and then the focus becomes: “You don’t love me, you don’t trust me.” That happens a lot, and it’s unfortunate. Because that takes the focus away from the person who’s really needing to heal. But there is that place to realize, and that that does happen.
“It’s going to be important to take some time for both of you, lick your own wounds, and then come back and say, “I wasn’t trying to not trust you, I was just scared because I’ve never felt safe.”
But there’s a lot of walking hand in hand, and maybe a couple feet apart, and hand in hand and a couple of feet apart, as you do that.
To have stability under ourselves, like our feet to be under, and then to be able to be in contact and be responsive and engaged with another. It’s not a leaning on always.
Well, and when you have that belief of “I really am here to help myself heal through what I’ve been through, and learn beyond what I have learned so far, or remember what I am to remember in this life,” I think there’s a little bit of an ability to take it to a bigger place so it’s not so much about me. And that is a beautiful place of awakening, yet is a beautiful place of our true journey on this earth, and in this life, and in this lifetime. I love that piece! People have been saying for a couple of years, “Thank you for helping me walk myself home,” and I didn’t even really know what that means. Then one day I did and I thought, “Oh, yeah! Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do.” I think that is so much of what this is all about: how do I bring love to all these places where love needs to be brought?
And expression, and really even a sense of purpose and meaning.
Well, Dr. Heather Browne, you have so much to say and so much to give. Where would you encourage for people that are connecting and resonating with you and want to know more, what would you like to invite people into or get connected with?
Oh, I would love to hear from anyone. So please, feel free to reach out. My website is DrHeatherBrowne.com, and I’m pretty active. So if you go to that, you’ll see that I have gifts, and I have blog, and I have TikTok, and I have YouTube. I have workshops, I have an online course. Of course, I do one-on-one sessions. So anybody who has any questions or would like to see how to connect with me more, feel free to go to my website. I’d be honored to see in what way I can assist or in what way I can guide you towards some resources that could serve anybody in whatever way that I’m able to offer.
Well, we’ll make sure to have the link to your website, which sounds a bit of a hub where you offer.
It is a hub.
Yeah, and there’s many resources and free guides, free gifts. You also have a blog, and you also have your social with TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram, and all of it. I’ll make sure to have all of those links on today’s show notes. Thank you so much for sharing your time with us here today.
An absolute honor. You have been a delight, Jessica! If there’s ever another need where there’s something that I can share that you would like, I’d love to come back again.
Oh, I would love that too.
Bless you all.
Signing Off
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