SALTovation: Making Sense of State and Local Tax

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Colorado’s recent elimination of the vendor fee marks a major shift in the state’s sales and use tax system, with big implications for small businesses and the wider economy. In this episode, we continue our conversation with Jenn Penn and Shanah Schaffer, breaking down what this change means for compliance, operational challenges, and the business community at large.

Together, we explore how business owners can collaborate to navigate these changes and advocate for a fairer tax landscape.

Key Takeaways:

Vendor fee elimination impacts small businesses.
Coalition works to simplify tax compliance.
Collaboration helps navigate tax complexities.
Legislative efforts address budget and policy changes.

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Ongoing advocacy, collaboration, and policy reform are helping shape a more efficient and equitable tax environment for businesses across Colorado.

This week, we dive into the work of the Coalition to Simplify Colorado Sales Tax, a group dedicated to reforming one of the nation’s most complex sales and use tax systems. Our guest, Jenn Penn, founder of Dome Strategies, joins us alongside Shawna Shafer, owner of Absolutely Advanced Accounting, to discuss the Coalition’s mission and milestones since its launch in 2014. Together, they share insights into the Coalition’s legislative successes, and we explore key initiatives, like the SUTS (Sales and Use Tax System) portal.

Key Takeaways:

Coalition’s Goal: Simplifying Colorado’s complex sales tax.
Key Wins: Reforms making tax compliance easier for businesses.
Collaboration Matters: Working together drives change.
Looking Forward: Continued advocacy shapes the future of tax reform.

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In this episode, we continue our conversation with Jeremy Scott to take an in-depth look at Canadian tax policy. With a focus on the regional nuances that shape taxation strategies, Jeremy discusses Quebec’s trailblazing implementation of the Netflix tax and its impact on multinational corporations operating in Canada.

Listen to learn how Quebec’s unique civil law framework and assertive tax policies have set a benchmark that influences other provinces and territories.

Key Takeaways:

Canadian tax rules are complex and vary by province.
Quebec’s Netflix tax shows its unique approach.
Voluntary disclosure helps businesses manage past liabilities.
Court cases highlight GST/PST compliance challenges.
Taxes like luxury vehicle and underused housing reflect policy goals.

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In this episode, we dive into the complex world of Canada’s sales tax system, covering the Goods and Services Tax (GST), Harmonized Sales Tax (HST), and various provincial sales taxes (PSTs). Our guest, Jeremy Scott, shares insights on navigating tax compliance and the evolving registration rules, including the recent changes of the “Netflix tax.”

We break down the distinctions between federal and provincial obligations and explore what these mean for international businesses operating in Canada. Drawing on his experience as both a practitioner and in-house tax leader, Jeremy provides a unique perspective on the challenges organizations face in this multifaceted landscape.

Key Takeaways:

Understand Canada’s sales taxes: Know the basics of GST, HST, and PST.
Expert perspective matters: Jeremy Scott shares insights from his experience as a tax practitioner and in-house tax leader.
Be aware of the Netflix tax: Learn how it affects non-resident businesses.
Prepare for international challenges: Navigating Canadian tax obligations can be complex for foreign businesses.
Know the differences: Distinguish between harmonized sales taxes and provincial sales taxes.

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Our conversation continues with Glenn McCoy as we examine pressing issues such as ethics, artificial intelligence, and tariffs. McCoy underscores how these factors are reshaping the future of tax practice, stressing the need for professionals to stay adaptable and well-informed amid rapid technological innovation and regulatory change.

He also offers his perspective on the ethical challenges posed by artificial intelligence in tax preparation, along with the evolving role of tariffs and their impact on taxation.

Key Takeaways:

State and local tax is becoming more complex and significant.
Ethics and artificial intelligence are key issues shaping tax practice.
Tariffs impact sales, income, and property taxes for businesses.
Networking strengthens relationships and professional growth.
AI in tax requires careful ethical consideration.

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In this episode of SALTovation, Glenn McCoy shares his journey through state and local tax, from law school and government service to corporate leadership and consulting. He reflects on career-defining moments, including moves from Oklahoma to New York and the impact of events like the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11.

Glenn’s story highlights resilience, adaptability, and valuable lessons for navigating the ever-changing SALT landscape.

Key Takeaways:

Glenn McCoy’s career spans law school, government, corporate leadership, and consulting, offering a wealth of experience in SALT.
The episode explores pivotal moments in Glenn’s life, including the Oklahoma City bombing and how it shaped his personal and professional path.
Listeners gain practical insights into navigating SALT challenges through Glenn’s firsthand stories.
Glenn’s move from Oklahoma to New York City transformed his perspective on taxation and the corporate world.

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In this episode, Stacey and Meredith explore the complex world of state and local taxation, focusing on one of the most misunderstood topics: nexus. Our team of tax professionals unpacks the common myths businesses often hold, especially around physical presence and economic nexus rules.

A key misconception we address is the belief that a company’s tax responsibilities stop at its state of incorporation. In reality, doing business and making sales across multiple states can create tax obligations in each of those jurisdictions.

Key Takeaways:

State and local tax compliance goes far beyond a company’s headquarters.
Many businesses mistakenly assume that only physical presence determines their tax obligations.
Because tax laws differ widely from state to state, compliance must be tailored to each jurisdiction.
Nexus can be triggered in overlooked ways, including remote sales and employee activity.

Chapters

00:00 - Intro

03:06 - Nexus and State Tax Jurisdiction

13:00 - Tax Compliance in Multi-State Operations

16:36 - Drop Shipments and Sales Tax

24:45 - Software Limitations in Business Compliance

40:20 - Navigating State Tax Compliance

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we unpack how artificial intelligence is reshaping tax compliance and the unique challenges that come with managing tariffs in local tax systems. Our guest, Scott Peterson from Avalara, shares insights on how generational shifts in tax expertise are influencing today’s policy landscape.

We also dive into the world of digital goods and licensing, offering practical strategies for navigating the complexities of tax automation. Throughout the conversation, we highlight the vital role of human oversight, reminding us that while technology streamlines processes, informed human judgment remains essential.

Key Takeaways:

The impact of AI on tax compliance and local tariff management
How generational shifts in tax expertise shape evolving policy
Navigating digital goods and licensing in a complex tax landscape
Why human oversight remains essential in an automated industry

Chapters

00:00 - Intro

00:24 - Transforming Tax Compliance with AI

03:24 - Understanding Sales Tax Returns

13:02 - Generational Shift in Knowledge and Technology

15:08 - Understanding AI in Business Processes

22:57 - Understanding Tariffs and Sales Tax

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we dive into the complex world of sales tax compliance and explore how technology is playing a vital role in helping businesses stay ahead. We welcome back Scott Peterson from Avalara, who brings deep insight into the ever-changing landscape of state tax policy and the challenges companies face in keeping up.

Scott shares how Avalara works closely with both businesses and government agencies to simplify the process of managing tax obligations, from handling large volumes of returns to adapting to shifting regulations.

Key Takeaways:

Key challenges in sales tax compliance for businesses
The role of state communication in tax policy updates
How technology streamlines multi-jurisdiction compliance
Avalara’s collaboration with governments to improve compliance

Chapters

00:00 - Intro

01:40 - Navigating Tax Policy Changes

10:47 - Understanding Tax Compliance and Responsibilities

15:34 - Navigating Tax Regulations in a Digital Age

24:00 - Navigating Tax Compliance in a Digital Age

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In this episode, we continue our conversation with Dave Kupiec, CPA, JD, and Natalie Martin, JD, of Kupiec & Martin, LLC, for a deep dive into Illinois tax law. We break down the often-overlooked Illinois franchise tax—a complex and frequently misunderstood area of state taxation. We explore how this tax impacts businesses, particularly during audits in Chicago and Cook County, and highlight the hidden risks that can catch taxpayers off guard.

You’ll gain key insights into potential liabilities and learn proactive strategies to stay ahead of compliance issues. The conversation also underscores the importance of strong collaboration between legal and tax teams to navigate the shifting terrain of Illinois tax law.

Key Takeaways:

Franchise tax in Illinois is easy to overlook: Many businesses don’t fully understand it, which can lead to problems.
Audits in Chicago and Cook County are high risk: These areas are more likely to trigger issues if your filings aren’t solid.
Legal and tax teams need to work together: Teamwork helps catch mistakes and stay compliant.
Plan ahead to avoid trouble: A proactive approach can save time, money, and stress later.

Chapters

00:00 - Intro

00:29 - Understanding the Franchise Tax: Key Insights

13:30 - Registration and Liability in Business Transactions

21:23 - Chicago's Taxation Challenges

31:05 - Navigating State Tax Regulations

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In this episode, we’re joined by Dave Kupiec, CPA, JD, and Natalie Martin, JD, of Kupiec & Martin, LLC, for a deep dive into Illinois tax law. Drawing on their extensive experience with the Illinois Department of Revenue and major corporations, they unpack the recent Pepsi case, offering insights into the state’s Tax Tribunal and appellate process.

We explore the importance of strong documentation, how administrative decisions can impact taxpayers, and key strategies for navigating Illinois’s complex tax landscape.

Key Takeaways:* The Pepsi case shows how complex Illinois tax disputes can be. * Good documentation is essential for dealing with audits and legal decisions. * Illinois tax rules are always changing and can greatly affect businesses. * Knowing how Illinois tax law works helps with better planning and staying compliant.

Chapters

00:00 - Intro

03:49 - Understanding the Illinois Tax Tribunal

14:00 - Importance of Documentation in Tax Cases

31:21 - The Evolution of Sales Tax Legislation in Illinois

41:20 - Taxation and Remote Sellers: An Unusual Amnesty Proposal

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we unpack the complex and shifting economic landscape of Colorado, focusing on how recent tax policies are reshaping the business environment. We continue our conversation with Ed Sealover, VP of Strategic Initiatives at the Colorado Chamber, and explore key legislative developments, including new targeted tax credits designed to spark innovation and boost tourism across the state.

We take a closer look at the evolving role of the Taxpayer’s Bill of Rights (TABOR) and its ripple effects on efforts to reform business personal property taxes and discuss the concerns around Colorado’s declining business climate rankings.

Key Takeaways: Legislative Shifts: Breakdown of key tax initiatives from Colorado’s recent legislative session, including expanded credits for innovation and tourism. * TABOR in Focus: Examination of the Taxpayer’s Bill of Rights and its influence on business personal property tax reform. * Economic Headwinds: Discussion on Colorado’s declining business climate rankings and the underlying policy challenges. * Investment Implications*: Insight into how evolving tax policy is shaping corporate investment strategies across the state.

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This week we continue our conversation with Diane Yetter, President and Founder of Yetter Tax and the Sales Tax Institute. We unpack recent changes to Illinois tax law—specifically through the lens of the PetMeds case—and explore the broader impact of South Dakota’s use tax ruling. We also break down what these shifts mean for taxpayers and why it’s more important than ever to stay alert in the ever-changing world of state and local taxation.

From choosing the right software to understanding key decision factors like taxability content, geographic coverage, and platform compatibility, listen for practical insights for businesses navigating this complex space.

Key Takeaways:* Why understanding nexus thresholds is crucial for compliance—and how sales tax automation can help. * What shifting tax obligations across state lines mean for your business operations. * How the taxation of digital goods and software is evolving—and why it matters now more than ever. * The critical role tax professionals play in helping businesses navigate today’s complex regulatory environment.

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More than a dozen states have repealed the 200 transaction threshold for economic nexus, aiming to ease the burden on small sellers. Our guest Diane Yetter, President and Founder of Yetter Tax and the Sales Tax Institute, breaks down what these changes mean for businesses, particularly those navigating multi-state sales. Diane explains why small sellers can no longer rely solely on transaction counts to determine nexus and why a broader understanding of tax obligations is now essential.

We unpack the benefits of these reforms, the challenges that persist, and what steps businesses should take to stay compliant in an ever-evolving regulatory environment.

Key Takeaways:* A growing number of states are repealing the 200 transaction threshold, helping reduce compliance burdens for small sellers. * Guest Diane Yetter stresses the importance of understanding both economic and physical nexus requirements. * These policy changes are considered a win for taxpayers, particularly small businesses. * Significant changes to Illinois’ tax structure raise concerns about potential discrimination against out-of-state sellers.

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In this episode of the Saltovation Podcast, we continue our conversation with Brent Reeves, co-founder of CereTax. Brent unpacks the power of API-first architecture and explains why seamless integrations are critical, often solving problems businesses don’t even know they have.

Together, we explore key topics like audit readiness, the pitfalls of legacy systems, and the importance of building tax processes right from the start to avoid costly missteps. Brent also shares insights on the growing trend toward technology-enabled services, where automation is enhanced, not replaced, by human expertise.

Whether you're a tax professional or just trying to keep up with state and local tax complexities, listen this week for actionable takeaways in the ever-changing tax landscape.

Key Takeaways: Audit readiness is non-negotiable – Proactive planning and smart integrations help avoid the high costs of relying on outdated systems. * Transparency is key – Clear, traceable tax processes are essential for audit success and ongoing compliance. * Saritax solves what you don’t see – Brent shares how the platform uncovers and addresses hidden pain points in automation and compliance. * Automation isn’t replacing people—it’s enhancing them* – Expect a growing shift toward technology-enabled services that blend automation with expert support.

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We’re talking with Brent Reeves, a seasoned entrepreneur and trailblazer in tax technology, on the SALTovation podcast this week. Brent shares the story behind launching SureTax and how that journey led to the creation of his latest venture, CereTax.

We dive into what it takes to disrupt the sales tax space—from building agile teams to staying ahead of constantly shifting compliance demands. Brent breaks down how his approach to solving real-world tax challenges with smart, scalable tech has helped businesses of all sizes stay compliant and future-ready.

Join us as we explore the art of building tax software that not only works today but evolves with tomorrow’s complexities.

Key Takeaways:* Brent Reeves details his entrepreneurial journey from SureTax to launching CereTax successfully. * The importance of agile teams and innovative tax solutions in business. * Understanding tax complexities is critical for effective software development and is why technology must adapt to ever-changing tax laws and regulations.

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This week on the SALTovation podcast we continue our conversation with Michael Cataldo. Michael breaks down Public Law 86272 and how it affects businesses in California. He discusses the market-based sourcing rules and key cases like Bindley and Luber, which highlight the challenges of tax compliance in the state. Meredith, Stacey, and Michael talk about Governor Newsom’s budget proposals and how they could impact financial institutions, especially with the potential switch to a single sales factor for apportionment.

Listen for tips on how to navigate California’s tricky tax regulations and how upcoming changes could impact the future of business operations.

Key Takeaways:* What are the ramifications of Public Law 86272 on enterprises operating within California's jurisdiction? * Market-based sourcing regulations: businesses are facing complexities in their compliance efforts. * How current cases impact accountant practices significantly.

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This week on the SALTovation podcast, Michael Cataldo breaks down the key market-based sourcing regulations that will shape state tax practices in 2025 and beyond. We explore the shifting landscape of state and local taxation, with a strong focus on California’s latest regulatory developments.

Join us as we unpack the complexities of these changes, their broader implications, and why tax professionals must stay ahead of the curve. We also dive into the controversial “look-through” approach, which redefines how service-based income is sourced—a debate extending far beyond California’s borders.

Key Takeaways:* Michael Cataldo discusses California's market-based sourcing regulations and their implications for practitioners. * The regulations have been in development for over a decade and are now set for formalization. * Understanding the 'look through' approach is crucial for income sourcing in California tax law.

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This week on the SALTovation podcast we continue our conversation with Ryan Minnick, COO at FTA, about the technological hurdles tax agencies are facing today. We examine the tension between user-friendly taxpayer portals and the need for strong security measures, noting that legislative complexities and resource limitations contribute to cumbersome interfaces. Ryan highlights the importance of balancing accessibility and security to improve voluntary compliance. He also discusses the significant financial investment required to modernize tax systems and advocate for greater understanding from tax practitioners regarding the complexities of state tax administration.

Key Takeaways:* The substantial financial implications associated with updating state tax systems, with estimates reaching upwards of $200 million for comprehensive overhauls. * Data security in state tax administration is critical, stressing that taxpayer trust is paramount for effective compliance and interaction with tax authorities. * Agencies need to navigate statutory limitations while striving for innovation and improved services. * Voluntary compliance: enhancing user experience can significantly contribute to improved taxpayer engagement and satisfaction. * Inter-agency relationships and communication foster collaborative problem-solving.

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This week on the SALTovation podcast we speak with Ryan Minnick, COO at FTA, about the crucial role The Federation of Tax Administrators plays in connecting tax administration authorities across the United States, encompassing all 50 states and several major municipalities. We delve into the organization's pivotal role in fostering collaboration among tax agencies, emphasizing its efforts to streamline communication and share best practices among its diverse members. Ryan shares how the FTA endeavors to provide vital support and resources to its stakeholders, underscoring the importance of the FTA in navigating the complexities of state and local taxation.

Key Takeaways:* The Federation of Tax Administrators serves as a vital connection between tax authorities across all fifty states, enhancing collaboration and efficiency. * The FTA organizes numerous conferences annually, fostering knowledge sharing among tax administrators and offering insights into best practices and emerging trends. * The FTA focuses on providing essential support and resources to tax agencies, enabling them to navigate complex tax administration challenges effectively.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Paul Archer, exploring the complexities of Colorado's sales tax system and the grassroots efforts to simplify it. Paul shares his journey from attending a national political convention to collaborating with key industry leaders in advocating for tax reform. Judy and Paul discuss the formation of a coalition that successfully passed important legislation aimed at improving audit fairness and simplifying sales tax processes. Paul also emphasizes the need for collaboration and long-term planning in driving meaningful change in tax policy and supporting local businesses.

Join the Cause: Simplify Colorado Sales Tax

Key Takeaways:* The coalition for simplifying Colorado's sales tax has grown, involving many stakeholders and interests. * Understanding and navigating the complexities of sales tax compliance can be overwhelming for many businesses. * The Wayfair Supreme Court ruling significantly changed how states enforce sales tax on online transactions. * A simplified sales tax system benefits both businesses and local governments by increasing compliance and revenue.

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This week, Paul Archer joins the SALTovation podcast to discuss his efforts to simplify Colorado's complex sales tax system, which he describes as a significant burden for businesses. Currently serving as a senior missionary in Nairobi, Kenya, Archer shares his journey from being a business owner to advocating for tax reform. He highlights the challenges of navigating a convoluted tax structure that varies widely across municipalities. Archer’s commitment to change began when he recognized the detrimental effects of the existing sales tax system on local businesses and sought to collaborate with legislators and community leaders. Through his experiences and advocacy, he emphasizes the importance of understanding the disparities in resources and systems between the U.S. and developing countries like Kenya.

Join the Cause: Simplify Colorado Sales Tax

Key Takeaways:

The complexities of Colorado's sales tax system and its impact on businesses.
Archer's humanitarian work in Kenya and its connection to his business background.
How local tax structures can significantly affect business operations and growth.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Legislator Cathy Kipp. Her recent election to the Colorado State Senate marks a significant development in Colorado's tax landscape. Cathy discusses the importance of stakeholder engagement, as tax professionals and legislators work together to simplify the tax system for small businesses. The conversation reveals the frustrations faced by taxpayers and the necessity for clear regulations amidst the state's unique home rule provisions. Kathy sheds light on the collective effort to improve tax compliance and ease the burdens on businesses while navigating the intricate legal framework of Colorado's tax laws.

Key Takeaways:* The complexities of Colorado's sales tax system present ongoing challenges for small businesses statewide. * Legislators must engage with stakeholders to simplify tax compliance and improve revenue collection. * The importance of legislative task forces lies in facilitating discussions among diverse stakeholders. * Home rule cities in Colorado retain significant authority, complicating uniform sales tax administration efforts. * Listening to the real stories of small business owners can guide meaningful legislative changes.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we are taking a deep dive into the complexities of Colorado's sales and use tax administration, highlighting ongoing challenges and the need for reform. Legislator Cathy Kipp prepares to take her seat in the Colorado State Senate in January 2025 and discusses the significance of this moment in Colorado's tax landscape. Cathy talks about the importance of stakeholder engagement, as tax professionals and legislators work together to simplify the tax system for small businesses. Listen as Cathy explains many of the frustrations faced by taxpayers and the necessity for clear regulations amidst the state's unique home rule provisions.

Key Takeaways:* Cathy Kipp's election victory marks a significant moment for Colorado's representation in the Senate. * The complexities of Colorado's sales tax system present ongoing challenges for small businesses statewide. * Legislators must engage with stakeholders to simplify tax compliance and improve revenue collection. * The importance of legislative task forces lies in facilitating discussions among diverse stakeholders. * Home rule cities in Colorado retain significant authority, complicating uniform sales tax administration efforts. * Listening to the real stories of small business owners can guide meaningful legislative changes.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Chris Muntifering, Executive Director at the Institute for Professionals in Taxation. We explore the role of the Institute for Professionals in Taxation (IPT) and its unique position in the landscape of tax organizations, highlighting how it distinguishes itself from competitors like the Council of State Taxation. Chris discusses the rigorous process behind IPT's advocacy efforts, including the criteria for supporting cases that benefit its members and the importance of engaging younger professionals as the landscape of tax professionals continues to evolve.

Key Takeaways:* The CMI program emphasizes the importance of both experience and education in taxation roles. * IPT aims to support its members by providing resources and guiding them through tax issues. * The process of submitting amicus brief requests is detailed and requires careful consideration. * IPT is focused on education while other organizations may also engage in advocacy efforts. * Engaging younger professionals is a key initiative for the future success of IPT. * The CMI exam is designed to test both knowledge and practical experience in the field.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Chris Muntifering, Executive Director at the Institute for Professionals in Taxation. Chris shares his journey from a finance graduate to a seasoned tax professional, emphasizing how he fell into property tax and eventually became a key player in IPT. Chris discusses the importance of education in tax management, with IPT providing resources for professionals at all levels, from basic to advanced training across various tax disciplines. Listen this week as we explore the importance of community, mentorship, and continuous learning in the field of taxation.

Key Takeaways:* Chris's journey into tax began unexpectedly, showcasing how many professionals enter the field. * The Institute for Professionals in Taxation (IPT) focuses on education across multiple tax disciplines. * IPT's mission emphasizes providing broad-based education, catering to various levels of tax professionals. * Networking and relationships are vital for tax professionals, as they provide essential resources and support. * Chris highlights the importance of adapting tax knowledge in an evolving business landscape.

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Are you a Sales Tax Nerd? Do you feel alone in your work? Do others understand what you deal with on a daily basis? Are you looking for your “people”? You need to check out The Sales Tax Nerd Community! It brings together helpful resources, ongoing training, and camaraderie. With free webinars, on-demand courses, and quarterly Office Hours with the original Sales Tax Nerd, Diane Yetter, you’re never short on accessible information and relief from the chaos of sales tax. Get your toughest questions answered by knowledgeable members of the community. Network with peers, access exclusive content, get discounts on our live courses, and gain over 28 CPE credits each year. Click the Sales Tax Institute link in the description, and use the code SALTOV10 for 10% off your membership today! https://www.salestaxinstitute.com/sales-tax-education/sales-tax-nerd-community-membership

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with industry veteran Kim Blascoe. Kim discusses the critical need for upskilling talent within public accounting firms to meet the growing demand for advisory services. Kim shares why firms must assess their current skill sets and develop their teams to deliver effective advisory services as the industry shifts from a compliance-focused model to a more client-centric approach. Listen this week as we discuss how firms can adapt to these changes, and navigate the challenges posed by competition, and the increasing complexity of client needs.

Key Takeaways:* Upskilling existing talent in public accounting is crucial to meet client advisory needs. * The pandemic has changed client expectations, making virtual consulting more accepted and effective. * Client advisory services must focus on delivering real value beyond traditional compliance work. * Firms should assess their service offerings to include advisory services for competitive advantage. * Building relationships with clients is essential as advisory services evolve in public accounting. * Smaller firms can leverage larger firms' resources to enhance their service offerings and expertise.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, industry veteran Kim Blascoe. With over three decades of experience, Kim shares her professional journey from owning a tax and accounting practice to leading Whipley's national accounting practice and her current role at CPA.com. Kim sheds light on the importance of mentoring in accounting, the strategy behind merging firms, and how to best support CPA firms in their growth and transformation efforts. Listen as we discuss the challenges CPA firms face today, from technology adoption to talent retention.

Key Takeaways: Mentoring and Career Development: Kim finds immense value in mentoring young professionals and guiding their career paths within the accounting industry. * State and Local Tax Complexity: The episode highlights the intricacies of SALT, particularly how different state regulations impact businesses in a post-pandemic world. * Digital Transformation: CPA.com’s mission is to support firms through digital transformation, offering tools, education, and consulting to enhance technological adoption and practice growth. * Specialization and Advisory Services: The importance of moving from generalist to specialist roles within accounting firms to provide high-value advisory services is emphasized. * Talent and Technology Management:* Firms struggle with retaining talent, upskilling employees, and keeping up with rapidly advancing technology, including the integration of AI.

Quotables

“We hear firms are talking about pulling people back into the office a couple of days a week so that there is that sense of community inside of the firms and a continuing of building culture because it is kind of hard to build culture when you spend all your time on virtual calls." -Kim Blascoe
“I think all the service offerings that have been added need to have career paths so that individuals feel like they can become partner, and not everybody's desire is, but if the desire is to become partner, that we give them those opportunities in these other areas of service." -Kim Blascoe

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Alicia Gelinas, President & CEO of COCPA. Alicia takes a deep dive into the evolving nature of professional networking, the impact of technology on relationship-building, and the significance of in-person interactions in an increasingly virtual world. With a focus on enhancing the CPA profession, she navigates through the challenges posed by remote work, the Amazon effect, and the need for robust personal connections within the CPA community. Alicia also discusses her vision for the future, aiming to leave a legacy of a connected, supportive, and forward-thinking CPA community.

Key Takeaways: Evolving Networking Dynamics: Understanding how virtual connectivity influences professional networking and the enduring importance of in-person interactions. * Strategic Focus of CoCPA: Emphasizing member support and advocacy through initiatives like leadership programs and scholarships. * The Amazon Effect: Discussing the shift towards instant solutions and its impact on long-term professional relationship building. * Emerging Trends: Highlighting the growing importance of ESG reporting and the role of CPAs in leveraging AI and other emerging technologies. * Legacy and Community*: Alicia's vision for fostering a sense of belonging and pride within the CPA profession through active engagement and professional support.

Quotables

"COCPA builds community for CPAs. CPAs need other CPAs, and we need a support group.” -Alicia Gelinas
"If CPAs don't think about the role that they need to play, they will be left behind and somebody else will take the role of trust.” -Alicia Gelinas

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In this episode of the Women to Watch in Sales Tax series, Diane Yetter of the Sales Tax Institute sits down with Meredith Smith, senior tax manager at TaxOps. Meredith shares her journey from starting in public accounting with a focus on income tax to becoming a self-taught sales tax expert at TaxOps. She sheds light on her role within TaxOps' State and Local Tax Group and offers insight into her pride in being adaptable and client-focused in the sales tax domain.

Meredith discusses the importance of being a good listener, particularly in the advisory side of sales tax work. She talks about how sales tax often gets overlooked within companies and the necessity of advocacy for addressing both past obligations and future risks. Meredith’s experience highlights how crucial it is to listen and understand client needs, making a significant impact in the compliance and consultancy aspects of sales tax. She also shares tips for women who are self-taught in sales tax, emphasizing the value of listening and advocating within their companies.

Key Takeaways:* Meredith Smith transitioned from income tax to sales tax, becoming self-taught to meet client needs at TaxOps. * Listening to clients and understanding their specific circumstances are critical in providing effective sales tax advisory services. * Advocating for the importance of sales tax within your company can help address both past and current obligations. * Sales tax knowledge isn't typically taught in traditional education, making self-taught professionals quite common in the field. * Staying updated and attentive to changes within your organization can reveal crucial sales tax implications.

Resources:* Sales Tax Institute * TaxOps

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Alicia Gelinas, President & CEO of COCPA. Alicia explores the evolving landscape of the accounting profession, the need for better marketing to young professionals, salary disparities, and the importance of creating supportive professional networks. She also touches on the critical role of advocacy and lifelong learning and offers insights into the systemic challenges and solutions facing the field today. Listen this week as Judy and Alicia discuss the critical role of professional associations like the COCPA in advocating for CPAs and enhancing community engagement among accounting professionals.

Key Takeaways: Career Diversity in Accounting: Alicia’s journey showcases the wide array of opportunities within the accounting profession, from traditional roles in public accounting to leadership positions in professional organizations. * Importance of Passion: Aligning personal passions with professional work can lead to a more fulfilling career; Alicia’s transition into coaching and subsequent leadership roles highlights this. * Challenges in the Profession: The accounting profession faces significant challenges, including underrepresentation among young professionals and the need to better market the advantages and opportunities within the field. * Advocacy and Support: Organizations like COCPA play a crucial role in advocating for CPAs, providing continuous professional development, and fostering a supportive community. * Systemic Changes Needed:* Issues such as competitive compensation, enhancing the profession’s public image, and adapting to new technologies are vital to attracting and retaining talent in the accounting sector.

Quotables

"The theme that has emerged is that we as accountants, are not great marketers. So we haven't been telling a compelling story about what the profession means.” -Alicia Gelinas
"Whatever I do, it doesn't matter as long as I turn my passions into my paycheck.” -Alicia Gelinas

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Sam Breslow on the complexities of state and local tax regulations, highlighting the challenges of accessing historical tax information, the implications of different source and destination tax laws, and the intricacies of Colorado's local tax system. Through real-world case discussions like Ohio's VBF case and Illinois's leveling the playing field regulations, Sam provides valuable insights for businesses navigating the labyrinth of tax compliance. Listen this week to get expert tips on managing voluntary disclosure agreements and learn about the ongoing efforts to simplify tax!

Key Takeaways:* Historical FYIs and FOIA Requests: The sanitization of FYIs led to significant challenges for practitioners who used these documents for tax comfort, highlighting the critical role of FOIA in accessing pivotal information. * VBF Case Insights: The Ohio VBF case emphasized the necessity for taxpayers to maintain extensive records that demonstrate the final destination of goods to ensure proper sourcing for gross receipts taxes. * Colorado Local Tax Complexities: Remote sellers face an arduous task navigating Colorado's diverse local tax requirements, especially given the inconsistencies in the adoption of model ordinances and participation in the SUTS system. * Leveling the Playing Field in Illinois: Illinois' complex tax system, including the differentiation between remote and in-state sellers, presents numerous challenges, with pending legislation aiming to simplify the existing labyrinthine structure. * Strategic Tax Planning: Both Judy and Sam stress the importance of strategic planning and staying informed about statutory changes to effectively manage state and local tax obligations and avoid inadvertent compliance issues.

Quotables

"If a state needs a flowchart to decipher its law, that’s probably a sign that maybe it violates due process because it's so cumbersome to use.” -Sam Breslow
"I advise my clients to pay very close attention to when they adopted the model ordinance, which for those of you that maybe aren't as familiar, that means that you're pretty much saying if you're subject to tax at the state level, if you give over 100,000 sales at the state level, you're subject to tax localities, which is unconstitutional.” -Sam Breslow

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Samantha Breslow, a seasoned expert in state and local tax, who is serving as a prominent attorney at HMB, a firm recently acquired by Kilpatrick. Sam shares her thoughts on the intricacies of tax compliance, the significance of maintaining professional relationships, and the hurdles faced when dealing with aggressive tax authorities. Listen as we take a deep dive into the Colorado local tax landscape, revealing the challenges and strategies for navigating the state's unique taxing jurisdictions.

Check out the VVF Intervest LLC v. Harris - BTA Case No. 2019-1233 (Sept.13, 2023) case here.

Key Takeaways: Navigating Career Transitions: Sam's transition from aspiring family lawyer to tax attorney emphasizes the importance of flexibility and open-mindedness in career paths. * Complex Tax Cases: The episode highlights challenging cases like the Illinois business non-business income issue and the Tractor Supply decision in South Carolina, offering insights into tax litigation strategies. * Colorado Local Tax Nuances: An in-depth look at Colorado's taxing jurisdictions sheds light on the complexities of local compliance and strategic voluntary disclosures. * Impact of Professional Relationships: Maintaining relationships within the industry plays a crucial role in career development and effective case management. * Evolving Tax Laws:* Discussions around the VDF case, digital services taxation, and leveling the playing field in Illinois underscore the dynamic and ever-changing nature of state and local tax laws.

Quotables

"There aren't that many wins in the scheme of things, at least within my career so far, because we do ultimately resettle a lot because it's in the best interest of the taxpayer a lot of the times to settle.” -Sam Breslow [13:16]
"When a state doesn't modify their ordinance or their statute but changes the way that they're doing things, I don't know if that's necessarily right.” -Sam Breslow [20:00]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our discussion with Florian Hanslik, a seasoned tax professional specializing in VAT. Listen as we take a brief detour from U.S. taxation to explore European VAT systems. We cover the regulatory framework, audit processes, and the fascinating trajectory of VAT towards digitalization within the EU. Florian provides foresight into the increasing digitalization of VAT compliance and how businesses need to adapt to these evolutionary changes in the tax landscape.

Key Takeaways: EU VAT Directive and Adaptation: The VAT Directive sets standard guidelines that EU countries must implement but allows for local adaptations, leading to significant variations in VAT rates and regulations. * Role of the EU Court of Justice: The Court ensures uniform application of the VAT laws across member states, influencing national legislation and compliance practices. * Digitalization of VAT Compliance: Moving towards a unified e-invoicing system by 2035 to streamline trade within the EU, despite countries like Poland and Italy having already implemented their systems. * VAT Audits in Different Jurisdictions: Distinct audit practices in countries like Switzerland, Germany, and Italy, showcasing a range of approaches from trust-based to more bureaucratic methods. * Future Trends in VAT:* Increasing digitalization is anticipated to simplify audit processes and compliance but may also bring challenges related to data privacy and system integration.

Quotables

"You have to take states by the hand and say, okay, now let's first question, what do you want to do? These are the facts. Let's go to the right side or to the left side. Yes. Let's say yes, let's say no, because it will be difficult for them to decide. So you have to take their hand and guide them through.” -Florian Hanslik [00:49]
"What I really like here in Switzerland is that the tax authorities talk about their clients when they talk about the companies they have to audit. And it's really a client system. They don't want to act mean. They want to ensure that going forward it will be done correctly.” -Florian Hanslik [18:46]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Florian Hanslik, a seasoned tax professional specializing in VAT. Transitioning from a rich background in politics to becoming an indirect tax expert, Florian discusses how his international upbringing and previous work with the European Parliament seeded his deep interest in global tax systems. Florian discusses the importance of understanding VAT in different countries, the role of comprehensive networks, and the need for businesses to be proactive in managing their VAT obligations, especially in an era of rapid e-commerce growth. Florian also notes significant future changes, particularly in the taxation of streamlined events, and underlines the necessity for companies to stay ahead of evolving tax regulations.

Key Takeaways: Career Transition and Passion: Florian shares his journey from a political background to VAT specialization, inspired by his love for internationalism and global work environments. * Importance of Networks: Building a reliable network of tax professionals globally is crucial for effectively managing VAT obligations across different regions. * Evolving VAT Landscape: The rise of e-commerce has significantly impacted VAT regulations, requiring businesses to stay adaptive and informed about international tax laws. * Future of VAT Compliance: Upcoming changes in 2025, especially concerning digitally streamed events, will require global businesses to reassess their VAT strategies and ensure compliance. * Proactive Tax Planning*: Florian emphasizes the importance of early and ongoing dialogue with tax experts to avoid the pitfalls of late compliance and unanticipated tax obligations.

Quotables

"It's wonderful talking with the companies, understanding the issues and the questions they have. When you understand the VAT system in one country, you can use it in all the other countries. It's everywhere, more or less working the same, but with some local specifics.” -Florian Hanslik [08:05]
"E-commerce platforms are now being taxed and marketplaces are taxed. Now we have big changes coming in 2025 where events that are streamlined are being taxed when it's streamlined to a private individual. So if there's an event in the U.S and somebody sitting in Switzerland is participating at this event because it is streamlined and they are paying for this, then this event organizer has to register in Switzerland and has to challenge VAT.” -Florian Hanslik [15:30]

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In this enlightening episode of "Women to Watch in Sales Tax," host Diane Yeter sits down with Tram Le, Senior SALT Manager at TaxOps, to delve into the intricacies of state and local tax compliance. Tram shares insights into the multifaceted services provided by TaxOps and underscores the importance of proper tax strategy and audit support. As an expert in the nuanced area of sales tax, Tram's perspective is a must-listen for those navigating this often misunderstood field.

TaxOps is portrayed as a small yet powerful boutique firm that is a one-stop solution for state and local tax needs. Tram emphasizes the critical nature of advisory services and the role of technology in achieving compliance. She also discusses her rewarding experiences as an educator at the University of Texas in Arlington, where she imparts her knowledge to graduate tax students. Tram's passion for teaching and her pride in enlightening students about the complexities of sales tax shine through, making this episode both informative and inspiring.

Key Takeaways: Comprehensive SALT Services: TaxOps offers a full spectrum of state and local tax services, including consulting, advisory, audit support, and tax software recommendations. * Educational Impact: Tram finds great reward in teaching state and local tax at the University of Texas in Arlington, noting the excitement and interest of her students as a significant accomplishment. * Undervalued Field: State and local tax is often underestimated in terms of complexity and importance. Tram encourages professionals to recognize and value their expertise in this specialized area. * Women in Sales Tax: Tram advises women in the field to be proud and confident in their work, recognizing the significant value they bring to their organizations. * Continuous Learning:* Staying updated and spreading awareness about the complexities of sales tax can lead to better compliance and a greater appreciation of the field.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Judy Vorndran focuses on the current challenges facing the accounting profession, particularly the shrinking pipeline of accountants. Judy highlights how the SALT field offers a dynamic and intellectually stimulating career path. She also discusses the various career trajectories within the field, from litigation to compliance to technology implementation, each presenting unique challenges and opportunities.

The number of taxing jurisdictions in the U.S. is hard to capture at any one point since it is a moving target. As of June 2024, by some counts, there were over 13,000 taxing jurisdictions combined from 45 states and the District of Columbia, which have a general sales tax, and 38 states with local sales taxes.

Key Takeaways: Multifaceted Nature of SALT: The interplay between legal analysis and compliance makes the SALT profession both challenging and rewarding. * Diverse Career Paths: Opportunities within SALT extend beyond traditional roles, encompassing litigation, technology, and international tax issues, among others. * Intellectual Engagement: The logical and strategic aspects of tax law require creativity and decisiveness, making it an engaging field for problem solvers. * Educational Gaps: There's an ongoing need for more focused SALT education in accounting and law programs, despite its pervasive impact on everyday life. * Practical Impact*: Knowledge in SALT is crucial given its daily impact, from sales tax to property tax, underlining the importance of skilled professionals in the field.

Quotables

"As a CPA, you read the laws and you learn to apply them. That makes you a big part of America.” -Judy Vorndran [06:51]
"Every single day we are all impacted by state and local taxes, our property taxes on our housing, our sales taxes on our food, our mobile telephone, our WiFi, and our electricity bill. There is tax all over the place in America and we just don't even see the bite-sized pieces it takes out of our pie.” -Judy Vorndran [09:30]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Diane Yetter, President and Founder of YETTER Tax and the Sales Tax Institute shares insights on streamlining tax administration, the impacts of COVID-19 on tax enforcement, and the critical importance of choosing the right tax automation solutions. Diane also addresses the complications arising from differing taxability rules within Colorado, Louisiana, and Arizona, highlighting the need for conformity and how the current tax automation tools often fall short.

SALTovation listeners can get 10% off Sales Tax Institute training with discount code: SALTovation10

Key Takeaways: Streamlining Tax Administration: The necessity for states, particularly those with home rule jurisdictions like Colorado, to simplify and unify taxability rules and compliance processes. * Impact of COVID-19 on Tax Enforcement: Post-pandemic changes in audit practices and enforcement highlight the need for businesses to stay vigilant and prepared. * Tax Automation Pitfalls: Common mistakes businesses make when implementing tax automation solutions without adequate consultation, and the importance of ensuring that tax software meets the specific needs of a company. * Transaction Due Diligence: Insights into the due diligence process, especially in M\&A activities, emphasizing the risks of unknown liabilities and the benefits of voluntary disclosure agreements. * Global Tax Compliance*: Financial and administrative burdens faced by businesses selling internationally, with specific focus on VAT compliance in the EU and other regions.

Quotables

“A lot of these newer, smaller platforms don't realize the complexities and are setting up their taxability rules based solely on what the state rule is.” -Diane Yetter [01:40]
"Ignorance is never an excuse. If you are in business, you have an obligation to know all of the laws that apply to your business.” -Diane Yetter [24:15]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Judy Vorndran discusses the vital role data plays in sales tax compliance, especially in an era where businesses often operate beyond traditional storefronts. She elaborates on why software often fails to completely address tax needs, and takes an in-depth look at the complexities introduced by home rule jurisdictions and how they influence the overall tax compliance profile of a business.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Data Integration: Properly integrating billing, inventory, and customer data is crucial for accurate sales tax compliance.
Software Limitations: Many software solutions offer a minimum viable product that may not cater to specific business needs, highlighting the importance of manual oversight.
Nexus and Tax Mapping: Understanding what constitutes nexus and accurately mapping taxability are key to avoiding compliance pitfalls.
Home Rule Complexities: Jurisdictions with home rule can significantly complicate the tax compliance process, requiring businesses to stay informed about various state and local regulations.
Automation Cycle: The cycle encompasses data gathering, system integration, and continuous updates to reflect changing tax laws and business operations.

Quotables

"You need to understand all the things in the cycle, the entire machinery in your business process. We have had to morph our world of automation to understand that process." -Judy Vorndran [13:25]
“The issue with home rules is that we don't have one system of record. We have several home rule states where there are separate filings for the cities than there are from the state. We have a subsystem” -Judy Vorndran [21:33]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Diane Yetter, Founder of the Sales Tax Institute, returns to share valuable insights into sales tax education, significant legislative updates, and advances in the industry. Diane discusses the challenges businesses face with Nexus, audit complexities, and the importance of choosing the right sales tax software. She also shares her experience testifying before the U.S Senate Finance Committee, emphasizing the need for standardized e-commerce thresholds and reduced compliance burdens for businesses.

SALTovation listeners can get 10% off Sales Tax Institute training with discount code: SALTovation10

Topics discussed in this episode:

Sales Tax Nexus: Nexus remains a critical topic, with ongoing debates about physical and economic standards across different states.
Audit Preparedness: Post-COVID, states are reactivating audits. Proper documentation and exemption certificate management are more vital than ever.
Software Solutions: Companies must carefully select sales tax software that fits their specific needs, considering evolving sales channels and technological changes.
US Senate Testimony: Diane Yetter highlighted the importance of reducing compliance burdens and achieving consistent economic Nexus thresholds.
Continuous Education: The Sales Tax Institute offers numerous resources, including webinars, on-demand classes, and community forums that help professionals stay updated on tax laws and best practices.

Quotables

“We really need to reduce the burdens on business. Physical nexus standards and inconsistent application of them across the states is an issue. We need to have some sort of consistency so that businesses know exactly what is going to create nexus.” -Diane Yetter [06:32]
“There are many more products on the market today, so being able to share about that and also sharing: How do you go about selecting the right one for your business? There are so many out there, it's so easy to get confused about which one should I actually use. Which one meets your needs?” -Diane Yetter[18:06]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Nancy Prosser, General Counsel at the Multistate Tax Commission, on the purpose and work of the MTC in promoting uniformity and assisting taxpayers with compliance in state and local tax matters. She explains how the MTC develops model statutes and regulations, and the challenges they face in getting states to adopt them. Nancy also shares insights into the selection process for uniformity projects and highlights the current projects focused on the taxation of digital products and partnerships.

Listen this week as Nancy addresses the complexities of adopting and adapting MTC recommendations and the role of stakeholder input in the process.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The MTC's purpose is to facilitate the appropriate determination of tax liability, promote uniform tax systems, assist taxpayer compliance, and avoid duplicate taxation.
States are sovereign entities and thus decide independently whether to adopt MTC's model statutes and recommendations.
Uniformity projects at the MTC can be initiated by both member states and public stakeholders, showcasing a collaborative effort toward state tax policy refinement.
The MTC actively studies tax policy and aims to offer resources and models to better handle emerging and complex tax issues, like the taxation of digital products and partnerships.

Quotables

“It is an ongoing effort. I don't know that there's ever going to be a perfect way for the MTC to spread the word, but we appreciate opportunities again like this podcast and the technology that we have today to reach out and talk to people and do the best we can to explain who we are and what we do. We are hoping to develop good models that show people how to do it well and do it right.” -Nancy Prosser [10:03]
“The essence to me of those projects are studying these areas to see, okay, what's going on in the economy on this front, what are the states doing or not doing and how, you know, collectively with, again, that stakeholder input, can we perhaps make recommendations that will help everybody do it more easily.” -Nancy Prosser [19:05]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Nancy Prosser, General Counsel at the Multistate Tax Commission. Nancy shares her experiences navigating through the complexities of introducing major legislative tax changes and discusses the intricacies of rule-making and policy development. She also talks about the importance of collaboration and transparency within the tax community, be it through engaging with different states' revenue departments or fostering constructive dialogues within the MTC.

Listen this week as we take a look at the evolution of tax legislation and policy from the trenches of legal administration to the broader scope of multi-state coordination.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Nancy Prosser's unconventional journey into state and local tax
The implementation of Texas' franchise tax reform: heavy emphasis on rule development, training, and taxpayer education to ensure a smooth transition
The Multistate Tax Commission plays a pivotal role in addressing interstate tax policy issues and fostering a collaborative approach amongst state tax administrations.
The symbiotic relationship between tax professionals across sectors and the mutual growth derived from sharing expertise.

Quotables

“We brought the multistate tax commission in to do training to help taxpayers and practitioners understand how the comptroller's office was going to administer this very major shift.” -Nancy Prosser [08:38]
“As I advanced through the agency and had more of a kind of global perspective on the agency itself in our work, it dawned on me more and more that decisions that were made in terms of tax policy did not just affect Texas, obviously, but did impact the world because so many people were doing business in Texas.” -Nancy Prosser [20:43]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Sandra Wiley, President of Boomer Consulting - an organization dedicated to guiding CPA firms towards success by leveraging leadership, talent, growth processes, and technology. From the hard truths about work-life balance to the strategic dilemmas CPA firms face, Sandra discusses the importance of embracing change, spreading decision-making power, and having the correct mindset. Listen this week as we talk about the growing significance of the accounting profession and the incredible potential it holds for future generations of professionals.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The accounting profession is undergoing a transformative shift, prioritizing work-life balance and cultural adaptation in the recruitment and retention of talent.
Effective leadership and navigating change are pivotal in the modern accounting landscape, particularly demonstrated during the transition to remote work practices.
Creating uniform processes in CPA firms can significantly enhance efficiency, but success hinges on the commitment and adaptability of all team members, not just technology.
The next generation of accountants is motivated by different values, such as community service and societal impact, requiring a shift in how the profession is presented to potential recruits.
Unveiling the true functional dynamics within a firm leads to valuable process improvements.

Quotables

“Firms today have to tune into what the next generation is defining as important to them. We have to meet them where they're at. We cannot impose our life and how we lived our life on them.” -Sandra Wiley [06:09]
“The accounting profession is on the brink of being one of the most important professions in our entire world. It is right in front of us to start developing and changing that business model so that we can get there faster with our clients, to be their advisors, their consultants, and their partners in their businesses.” -Sandra Wiley [26:22]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Sandra Wiley, President of Boomer Consulting - an organization dedicated to guiding CPA firms towards success by leveraging leadership, talent, growth processes, and technology. Sandra shares her unique perspective and critical strategies that drive CPA firms. Building a connected community through meaningful relationships can enable firms to create a culture that fosters collaboration and allows individuals to thrive. Listen this week as we discuss the progressive edge of CPA firms today, focusing on community, leadership, and diversity.

Topics discussed in this episode:

CPA firm consultation: focusing on community, holistic leadership, and innovation
Community building is crucial, particularly with remote work, fostering relationships and collaboration
Holistic leadership: considering the whole person, integrating personal and professional lives for a balanced approach to management.
How CPA firms are evolving in an increasingly competitive space
Proactive adaptation to automation and resource diversification is key to future-proofing CPA firms

Quotables

“When I think of holistic leadership today, it's looking at the whole person. When we look holistically at who people are, the human side of them, they are personal and professional. Diversity and inclusion and feeling like you belong somewhere, that is a part of well-being.” -Sandra Wiley [13:15]
“Young people are coming into firms today with a long list of all the questions they have for ‘what are you going to do for me?’ There are a lot of people who hate that, but that's what they're doing. They're going to come through the door and ask ‘What kind of training are you going to give me?’, ‘What do I do if my kids are sick? Can I work from home three days a week? If we don't have good answers, they will walk down the street and find another company that will give them what they want.” -Sandra Wiley [25:00]

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This episode originally aired on: https://www.boomer.com/post/e174-billing-time-vs-delivering-value-shifting-mindsets-in-the-cpa-industry

On this episode of the Boomer Briefing Podcast, Allen Gregory, Partner, Federal Tax at TaxOps, talks about billing time versus delivering value to clients. Allen and host Marc Staut, Shareholder and Chief Innovation and Technology Officer at Boomer Consulting, dive into how removing hourly rates can add value to client relationships and improve an accounting firm’s client retention.

Allen shares how TaxOps has used value-based pricing since its inception. This experience has taught us how fixed-fee pricing creates collaborative client relationships and a culture of trust and accountability within the firm. Two key components, clear communication and experienced staff, are also key to ditching charge hours and making fixed-fee engagements work for clients, staff and partners.

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This week we continue our discussion with Paul Miller, Vice President & Deputy Director of the ACMA, and David Swetnam-Burland, Partner at Brann & Isaacson. As remote sellers navigate the new state tax laws and consumer privacy regulations, the need for federal legislation to provide clarity and consistency for businesses operating across multiple states has increased. Listen as we discuss the impact of local home rule cities, such as in Colorado, on compliance efforts and how the ACMA advocates for federal solutions to protect their members and promote industry growth.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The MTC's updated interpretation attempts to align tax laws with the digital era, impacting businesses that operate online.
The definition and application of 86-272 is a central point of contention, with states leveraging different interpretations to expand their tax bases.
Legal challenges, especially in California and New York, are proving pivotal in establishing how nexus laws apply and are enforced.
Local compliance, notably in Colorado's home rule cities, adds complexity to the remote sellers' tax obligations and merits close legal attention.

Quotables

“From the ACMA's perspective, our approach, as I mentioned earlier, is always to try to get a federal bill passed into law, because organizations like ours, we're very small comparison to, say, the milk industry or something. We're serving a pretty specific constituent, and they are located throughout the states and they're being chased by different states, and we don't have the means to chase after those states to defend them.” -Paul Miller [17:51]
“It is one thing for the Supreme Court to say we created a rule in 1992, now we're in 2018. We don't like our rule as much as we did then, or the composition of our court has changed sufficiently so that we no longer have five votes in favor of that rule.” -David Swetnum-Burland [03:50]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith interviews Paul Miller, Vice President & Deputy Director of the ACMA, and David Swetnam-Burland, Partner at Brann & Isaacson. Both discuss the changes in tax regulations that have taken place after the Wayfair decision, the ACMA's mission, and the legal challenges that businesses face today. They also talk about the efforts being made to address the complications that arose after the Wayfair ruling, which led to a significant shift in sales and use tax obligations for remote sellers.

Listen to the SALTovation podcast here: https://saltovation.captivate.fm/listen.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The ACMA has extended its advocacy from catalog mailers to encompass a broader range of remote marketers, responding to the industry’s digital transformation.
Wayfair ruling's aftermath has led ACMA to push for federal legislation that simplifies sales tax collection, addressing the complexities of state-by-state compliance.
The legal challenge against California's interpretation of Public Law 86-272
California's Technical Advice Memorandum and Publication, which may affect future state tax policy.
The intricacies of sales and income tax laws post-Wayfair pose significant burdens on businesses, especially smaller entities, and ongoing advocacy and legal efforts are crucial in addressing these challenges.

Quotables

“The ACMA's original mandate was to keep postage rates in checked for catalogs, and we've done so quite effectively throughout to the present day. We evolved over the years, and in the early two thousand and ten s, I guess we call it, we picked up on the growing efforts to overturn the 1992 standard in quill versus North Dakota, which upheld that catalog, and other direct marketing companies were not required to collect sales or use taxes from customers residing in states in which those companies have no physical presence.” -Paul Miller [01:54]
“As much as the states might like to change the policy in this area, we don't believe, and the ACMA doesn't believe, that a public guidance document or a state tax regulation from a state level is a way to do that. This is a federal statute under the supremacy clause. It provides a clear rule for and I think one thing the states tend not to appreciate is the ACMA and our client base are businesses of all sizes.” -David Swetnam-Burland [08:35]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Mike Bernard, VP of Tax Content and Chief Tax Officer at Vertex, a global provider of indirect tax software solutions. We examine the threefold increase in fee impositions within three years, underpinning the expectation of continued expansion in this domain. We also explore the burgeoning landscape of state and local taxation, where green fees, neighborhood assessments, and intricate policies intertwine with local economies and legislative nuances. Mike also shares insights on the future of sales and use taxes, the impact of commercial real estate devaluation, and the potential taxation of services.

Topics discussed in this episode:

There's been a significant increase in environment-related fees, which is reflective of a broader trend towards eco-conscious taxation.
Fees are emerging as a preferred alternative to sales tax increases due to the ease of implementation and their transaction-based nature.
Diverse new fees create operational and compliance challenges for businesses, requiring sophisticated tax software and calculated strategies.
The sales and use tax is positioned to become more prominent in funding state budgets, especially considering economic downturn resistance and recovery.
Professional services taxation complexity may continue to be addressed indirectly through audit practices, while explicit taxation of services remains a point of debate.

Quotables

“Fees can be passed with relative ease. They're easy to audit because it's on normally a per-transaction basis. And so I think if you think about how local communities or local districts want to continue to raise revenue without raising the sales tax rate, these are going to be a significant portion of that. And I will tell you this, a lot of our customers are very aware of this and they want to make sure that at least we stay apprised of making sure that in our monthly data update, we get those fee positions updated with that as well, so that they're charging proper fees as well.” -Mike Bernard [01:43]
“The devaluation of commercial real estate in the urban cores puts pressure on budgets. So you're seeing this massive kind of revaluation because people are either hybrid work or they're not having to go in five days a week. And so now these commercial buildings are being revalued. And so property tax revenues are starting to be greatly impacted.” -Mike Bernard [13:37]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Mike Bernard, VP of Tax Content and Chief Tax Officer at Vertex, a global provider of indirect tax software solutions. As tax complexities increase and technology advances, Mike shares his invaluable insights drawn from his vast experience in the tax domain. We delve into the role of a Chief Tax Officer at a software company, the importance of understanding clients' unique needs, and the challenges of implementing and upgrading tax technology. Mike also shares insights on the future of sales tax compliance and the work Vertex does to advocate for administrative ease and efficiency in tax policy.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Mike brings a wealth of experience from his background as US Tax Counsel at Microsoft and now as Chief Tax Officer at Vertex.
Vertex Inc. prioritizes staying current with tax updates through monthly data updates and maintaining solid professional relationships with Departments of Revenue.
The conversation highlights the importance of adaptable tax software in handling various sales scenarios, including bundles and emerging digital assets like NFTs and cryptocurrencies.
The need for upfront investment in understanding business systems to create efficient and compliant tax reporting solutions.
Engagement with Multi-State Tax Commissions and Departments of Revenue helps Vertex in navigating and influencing the administrative aspect of evolving tax policies without direct lobbying.

Quotables

“One thing that you find out at Vertex when you serve a larger community of customers is that you have to come with this idea that they're all on their technology journey. Nobody's ever the same. Even though they may be in the retail business as an industry, or they may be in oil and gas, or they may be in leasing, or they may be in financial services, they're all at a different place as you move along their journey as to how technologically capable they are of serving not just their internal corporation, but their customers.” -Mike Bernard [07:49]
“You always have to gauge yourself and give them the ability to move up or move down wherever they're at in that space and serve them the best that you can. some clients require a more handheld type of service and others, you can put things out there and give them a direction. then check back with them in a week and they will have accomplished some of the things that they set out to do.” -Mike Bernard [12:10]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our discussion with Richard Jones, attorney at Sullivan & Worcester, on recent landmark cases and their implications on tax policies and practices. Richard discusses two important state and local tax cases: Akamai and Bass Holdings. We delve into the complexities of determining whether a company is selling software or services, and the taxation implications. We also explore the concept of unitary business and its impact on apportionment. Listen as we provide valuable insights into the nuances of these cases and offer advice on navigating state and local tax issues. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of these key topics in the world of taxation!

Topics discussed in this episode:

The pronunciation and role of Akamai in the technology and tax world, exemplify the challenges in classifying software versus services within taxation.
The significance of the unitary business principle in SALT litigation and its application in recent tax cases, specifically referenced in the 'Vas Holdings' debate.
An explanation of how court decisions can overturn long-standing tax policies, offering a fresh perspective on statutory interpretations and SALT applications.
Richard’s experiences in the courtroom, shed light on the strategies used in SALT litigation to secure favorable outcomes.
The encouragement to question accepted tax policies and insights into the pendulum of taxpayer victories in recent SALT litigation.

Quotables

“Get a good tax advisor to know the difference between the tax rules that really shouldn't be challenged and those that might have some grounds for looking further into.” -Richard Jones [29:40]
“The pendulum can change, though, if you get more aggressive positions taken by the Department of Revenue, you tend to have more success from taxpayers as long as there's not too much deference and some fresh looks at by the courts or the judges as to the proper application.” -Richard Jones [32:42]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Richard Jones, an attorney at Sullivan & Worcester in Boston, specializing in state and local tax for over two decades. Richard dives into two significant Massachusetts court cases: Oracle USA Inc. and US Auto Holdings. In the Oracle case, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court upheld the ability to apportion sales tax for software sales and clarified the parameters of the Commissioner of Revenue's authority. In the US Auto Holdings case, the court struck down the concept of "cookie nexus" and denied the state's ability to retroactively apply the Wayfair decision. Listen this week as Richard provides insights into the implications of these cases and their potential impact on other states.

Topics discussed in this episode:

State and local tax issues often involve unsettled and controversial areas, making them interesting and challenging for attorneys.
Apportioning sales tax for software sales is a reasonable approach and should be considered in other states.
The concept of "cookie nexus" is not valid, as physical presence requires something tangible.
The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court's decision in US Auto Holdings prevents the retroactive application of the Wayfair decision.

Quotables

“Many states, like Massachusetts, have changed the definition of tangible personal property to say things that are tangible personal property plus software. We're just calling it a fiction. Fine. Okay. But what happens then is that now you have something that can be used simultaneously and exists simultaneously in many different states at the exact same time.That doesn't happen with the widget. So you have a new question.” -Richard Jones [09:57]
“After the oracle decision, the floodgates opened for everyone filing abatement claims that didn't think they could before. And we've seen shifting sands in terms of the degree in which the department will be satisfied with the apportionment. I can't say I am happy with the way the sands have been shifting. Sometimes you can find out exactly what percentage of your employee headcount use the software and where they are because the software has a technology and sometimes you can't.” -Richard Jones [21:02]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Stacey Roberts and Meredith Smith speak with hosts of the TaxChats podcast, Scott Dyreng, Professor of Accounting at Duke’s Fuqua School of Business, and Jeff Hoopes, Associate Professor at Kenan-Flagler Business School at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. They discuss the $10,000 state and local tax (SALT) deduction cap and explore the impact of the cap on taxpayers, particularly in high-tax states. They discuss various strategies and issues related to SALT, the political dynamics surrounding the cap, potential future changes, and the complexities of filing taxes in multiple states.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The $10,000 state and local tax deduction cap and its impact on taxpayers
The cap's effect on business owners with income flowing through multiple states
Impact of the cap on taxpayers in high-tax states like California, New York, and New Jersey
The potential future of the salt cap and the political dynamics surrounding it
Workarounds implemented by some states to mitigate the impact of the cap
Implications of state income tax on personal salaries and employment taxes
The complexity of filing taxes in multiple states and the potential for double taxation

Quotables

“Another part that we haven't mentioned here is also very important is this deduction only exists for people if you itemize your tax itemize on your tax return. So that's like 90% of taxpayers don't itemize their tax return. And it's pretty much just like with income. So the 90% 90% of taxpayers the lower income people the 90% lower. So a lot of people don't itemize at all. This doesn't have any effect. So you're only starting with the 10% richest people. And then from there only the people that like exceed that $10,000.” -Jeff Hoopes [11:05]
“It's kind of like letting the business pay the tax at the state level, not having it flow through and then only flowing through the after-tax amount. Whereas in the pre world, I was like flowing through the whole amount and being forced to pay a claim. It was like an individual thing. So it sort of converted it from an individual tax to a business tax.” -Scott Dyreng [21:37]

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As we continue our discussion with Brad Scott, Director of Finance at Halstead Bead, Inc., an eCommerce wholesaler supplying jewelry businesses worldwide, Brad shares the challenges faced by small businesses in complying with state and local tax (SALT) regulations. He highlights the high costs of compliance and the potential consequences of non-compliance. Brad emphasizes the need for amnesty and a simplified and streamlined approach to help small businesses become compliant. He also calls for a centralized database of SALT rules and regulations to make compliance easier for businesses.

Talking Tax Reform: https://taxfoundation.org/event/post-wayfair-remote-sales-tax-reforms/

Guest Bio:

Brad Scott is the Director of Finance at Halstead Bead, Inc., an eCommerce wholesaler supplying jewelry businesses worldwide. Halstead is a second-generation, family-owned, small business. Scott has been with Halstead for 21 years. He handles multi-state sales and income tax registrations, filings, reconciliations, and all other accounting for the business. Scott also leads Halstead’s legislative advocacy efforts to achieve multi-state sales tax policy uniformity & simplification and is the Chairman of the Committee on Tax Policy at the American Catalog Mailers Association (ACMA). Halstead Bead, Inc. was the plaintiff in a lawsuit against the State of Louisiana, represented by Joe Bishop-Henchman and Tyler Martinez of the National Taxpayers Union (NTUF). Scott graduated from Michigan State University with a BA in Finance.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Compliance with SALT regulations is costly and time-consuming for small businesses.
Non-compliance can lead to significant financial penalties and even the closure of businesses.
Amnesty should be considered as a solution for businesses that are not currently compliant.
A centralized database of SALT rules and regulations would greatly simplify compliance for businesses.

Quotables

“I think the solution is going to be unpalatable from a policy position, but from a humane position. Amnesty is something that has to be considered and it's going to have to come out of the state houses of regulation and legislation because coming from Washington is going to be seen as a preemptive attempt.” -Brad Scott [06:20]
“You've got practitioners, you've got businesses, and you've got policymakers. All of them need to recognize the role they play in this. A lot of business owners are afraid of putting their hands up for fear of being audited. But the reality is, until the people that make the decisions understand the vastness of this problem, they're not going to address it. ” -Brad Scott [21:55]

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This week on the SALTovation podcast we speak with Brad Scott, Director of Finance at Halstead Bead, Inc., an eCommerce wholesaler supplying jewelry businesses worldwide. Brad discusses the challenges and costs of sales tax compliance for small businesses. He shares his personal experience with the Wayfair decision and the impact it had on his company. He talks about the need for greater simplicity in tax policy to drive compliance and reduce the burden on small businesses. He proposes solutions such as a single audit per year from a designated taxing authority and a single rate model for states. Listen this week as we discuss the need for collaboration between business leaders and policy leaders to find effective solutions.

Talking Tax Reform: https://taxfoundation.org/event/post-wayfair-remote-sales-tax-reforms/

Guest Bio:

Topics discussed in this episode:

Sales tax compliance is a significant challenge for small businesses, requiring extensive time and resources.
Simplifying tax policies and reducing the number of audits can drive greater compliance and reduce costs for businesses.
The single rate model, as implemented in Texas, can significantly streamline sales tax collection and administration.
Collaboration between business leaders and policy leaders is crucial to finding effective solutions for sales tax compliance.

Quotables

“There is an equal lack of awareness on the part of policymakers about what goes on within a small business, the challenges that we face, and what kind of resource drain they present. That has been the key focal point of our advocacy, bringing to bear the actual resource that we have to put into this and helping legislators to understand what a reasonable expectation is so that we can comply but also serve our customer base.” -Brad Scott [04:40]
“If you start thinking about the sheer volume of businesses that are out there, I question how any state Department of Revenue could reach out to all of the businesses in every single state outside of their territory. It's just not a fair ask. So when you start talking about the sheer volume of communication that's not occurred, how many businesses are unaware of the Wayfair decision?” -Brad Scott [11:39]

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In this special 75th episode of the SALTovation Show, we are excited to bring you a rerelease of our very first episode! Join us as we take a trip down memory lane and get to know some of the SALTovation members who have been instrumental in our growth and success over the years.

In this premiere episode, we will share our extensive years of experience in the field, as well as our personal journeys of when and how we joined TaxOps. Discover what drives these passionate professionals and hear their valuable insights and answers to questions from both business and non-business owners about tax.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Tram Le is a member of SALTovation and has over 10 years of working in the state and local tax. She shares her journey in the tax sector, and why she enjoys working at SALT.
Judy Vorndran is the head of the state and local tax practice and has been practicing for 25 years. She shares her journey in the tax sector and the transition she has seen in her 25 years of practice.
Alexander Korzhen’s 15-year journey in state and local tax
Stacey Roberts shares her journey from federal tax to SALT
Understanding the layers of the state and local tax blueprint whether as a small or large business.
The assumption that all CPAs know about local and state taxes. Look where you can add value to your client as a CPA.
How to understand Nexus when traveling for business from state to state.

Quotables:

“SALT is navigating the gray area that exists when laws are not written specifically to business and are not keeping track with business.” -Alexander Korzhen
“There are layers upon layers of taxes across our nation that apply to each and every business.” -Judy Vorndran
“A nexus questionnaire is really a fishing expedition from a state.” -Stacey Roberts

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This week on the SALTovation podcast we continue our discussion on the ever-changing landscape of state and local tax. Jordan Goodman, Attorney at HMB Law, discusses the changing landscape of state and local tax, focusing on the investee allocation cases and the shift from considering the location of the business to the location of the asset being sold. He highlights the confusion and lack of clarity in state tax laws, emphasizing the need for uniformity and clear guidelines. Jordan also touches on the challenges of remote work and the impact of automation on tax audits.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The investee allocation cases have changed the game in state and local tax, shifting the focus from the location of the business to the location of the asset being sold.
The distinction between intangible and tangible assets is fading in the courts' minds, leading to the treatment of the sale of an asset as the same as the sale of the thing that owns the asset.
State tax laws lack uniformity and clarity, causing confusion and challenges for businesses and tax professionals.
The rise of remote work and automation has made tax audits more efficient and increased the likelihood of audits for businesses of all sizes.

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This week on the SALTovation podcast we discuss the ever-changing landscape of state and local tax with guest Jordan Goodman, Attorney at HMB Law. Jordan highlights the rapid pace of developments in SALT and the challenges faced by businesses and taxpayers. Jordan talks about the need to understand the impact of changing policies and regulations on businesses and individuals. He also discusses recent court cases and their implications for taxpayers. Jordan raises concerns about retroactivity in tax laws and the need for fair and transparent processes in tax administration. Listen as Jordan shares his thoughts on the taxation of digital advertising and the evolving nature of nexus rules.

Topics discussed in this episode:

States' competition and the need to expand tax bases
How retroactivity in tax laws creates challenges for taxpayers and may violate due process
Challenges faced by smaller retailers in dealing with compliance burdens
Alternative apportionment and the court’s role in determining its applicability
The need for a more comprehensive approach to apportionment
How taxpayers can engage with state and local jurisdictions to address tax issues and work towards fair and reasonable solutions.

Quotables:

"I think the competition among the states and the locals now are really emphasized because everybody went to a single sales factor. You have to import it. But now they're realizing there's limitations to that and they've got to look at things differently. ” -Jordan Goodman [04:30]
“The government is looking for the ability to raise revenue without offending the electorate by putting it on people. Whether it's corporations, which always was the tag, but now it's wealthy individuals. They don't pay their fair share, so you're kind of pushing the burden out to other people. And the wealthy people only get one vote. So it's a very good common man type argument.” -Jordan Goodman [08:06]
“If you're going to pass a regulation it has to go through a certain process and you have to have open comments and time for it and meetings and it's got to go for a first reading and a second reading and all the states are different. It's a unique way to challenge things but it can be very effective.” -Jordan Goodman [16:04]
“I was raised with this principle that as an advocate, I can argue both sides of any issue and I actually think I'm obligated to do it. The state should pick a side, right? They have to decide what side they're on and go with it. Now, you may make half the people angry and half the people sad, but that's the choice they have to make for advocates. We can argue both sides and in fact makes my wife very angry when I just play devil's advocate because that's.” -Jordan Goodman [24:15]

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This week on the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Katherine Loughead, Senior Policy Analyst at the Tax Foundation, on various state and local tax issues. Katherine discusses the impact of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), the trend of state tax reform and relief, and the challenges of tax policy in a complex political landscape. Katherine also touches on the importance of broadening tax bases and lowering rates, as well as the need for simplicity and transparency in tax laws.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The TCJA eliminated the deduction for entertainment expenses and imposed limitations on state tax deductions, which has had a significant impact on high-tax states.
Many states have been implementing income tax rate reductions in recent years to promote tax competitiveness and economic growth.
New Mexico and South Dakota have broad sales tax bases, which has motivated them to reduce sales tax rates.
The complexity and lack of transparency in tax laws can create challenges for businesses and taxpayers.
There is a growing trend of states exploring new revenue sources, such as digital advertising taxes and wealth taxes, but it is important to consider the impact on economic growth and avoid picking winners and losers.

Quotables:

"In an ideal world, if you want to really have an ideal tax system where you can create a lot of economic growth and have simplicity, you should do things this way. But it gets messy because politics is politics and so you have to work within that system and do the best you can. But we like to talk to lawmakers about how ideally tax codes should look like they were designed on purpose. But a lot of times people are coming in and out of the legislature and new governors have vastly different agendas.” -Katherine Loughead [01:37]
"This has definitely been the biggest wave of state income tax reform and relief the U.S has ever seen. With so many states reducing their rates, and many times, not just once, but several states have come in and reduced their rates twice over the last three years, several times. A lot of them are prescribing future rate reductions and then when revenue continues to come in stronger than they expected, they're able to then adjust those and bring rates down a little bit lower.” -Katherine Loughead [07:29]

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This week on the SALTovation podcast, Katherine Loughead, Senior Policy Analyst at the Tax Foundation, discusses the importance of sound tax policy and how the Tax Foundation is conducting tax policy research to inform policy deliberations at the state, federal, and international levels. She talks about the impact of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) and the Wayfair decision on state tax policy. Katherine also emphasizes the need for states to adjust to the new normal, including the rise of remote work and the need to attract businesses and taxpayers.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The role of the Tax Foundation
Trends in tax policy over the past five years
States' unexpected revenue surplus post-pandemic
How income tax complexity makes it hard to predict liabilities
Challenges of property assessments and the public perception of taxes
Helping the public understand tax systems

Quotables:

"The Tax Foundation is a nonprofit, nonpartisan 501 tax policy research organization and we've actually been around for over 85 years now and we work to advance sound tax policy at the state, federal, and international levels.” -Katherine Loughead [00:50]
"Switching from federal to state has been interesting because so much happens every single year at the state level. So there are many ways you can help move the needle in the right direction. Instead of being a very small part of a big wheel, you're able to be one of a few players that are really having an impact, and that's been highly rewarding.” -Katherine Loughead [05:35]
"We've had, of course, the pandemic and all of the state responses to that, everything that's happened at the federal level since then with federal aid and then now coming out of the pandemic, we've seen states have a lot more revenue on hand than they initially expected.” -Katherine Loughead [12:13]
“People remember exactly what they paid in property taxes in a certain year, but don't add up all their receipts or have a strong sense of how much they're paying in sales taxes. It's a little bit here and a little bit there, but over time that adds up quite a bit. With income taxes, there's so much complexity to the income tax system where you get exemptions here and deductions there and then clawbacks here.” -Katherine Loughead [16:01]

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In this episode of SALTovation, we continue our conversation with Olga Goldberg, SALT Partner at Pierce Atwood LLP. They discuss the importance of taxpayer advocacy and the surprising stance taken by the New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration in a recent tax case and delve into the topic of taxpayers litigating against tax assessments, even when the amount at issue may not be significant. They highlight the importance of pushing the issue to get answers and establish precedents for future cases. They also touch on the uptick in battles over disclosing information in recent years and emphasize the need for clients to be prepared for the additional costs and challenges that may arise in tax litigation.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Potential risks associated with disclosing confidential taxpayer information
Additional costs and risks associated with public disclosure
How states like Massachusetts and Connecticut handle residency and income tax
Maine’s recent confidential taxpayer decision
Challenges businesses face in protected information during legal proceedings

Quotables:

"To establish a true answer, like Wayfair, it's probably not a big deal. Just go ahead and collect. You can agree on something, but at least you have that public answer that in theory, you know, people are going to be held to or states or businesses or whatnot.” -Olga Goldberg [02:51]
"One of the recent battles that we've had which is not even a tax issue is confidential. The attorney general or the assistant AGs have been really pushing for the disclosure of confidential taxpayer information, like tax returns, and then just confidential information of the taxpayer, like details, of contracts and other information.” -Olga Goldberg [04:40]
"Luckily, at least so far, trial courts seem pretty skeptical of the AG's arguments, they've been ruling in our favor, and they've been protecting this information. So, that's the good news, that it's not getting out there, but the bad news is that it's adding to the costs of a case that might not have a ton of evidence.” -Olga Goldberg [08:07]
“Maine has a court-created second avenue to an exemption, which is that you can just file a declaratory judgment requesting an exemption, whether or not you have filed an application or whether or not you have requested abatement. So, you have two options, you can go the abatement route or you can go this declaratory judgment route.” -Olga Goldberg [20:22]

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In this episode of SALTovation, Meredith Smith and Alexander Korzhen speak with Olga Goldberg, SALT Partner at Pierce Atwood LLP. Olga shares her journey into the field of law and specialization in state and local tax. Olga delves into the challenges and concerns surrounding remote employees, particularly concerning nexus and withholding. She discusses the current legal issues she consistently argues in state and local tax and the challenges and concerns associated with remote employees, particularly regarding nexus and withholding. Tune in to hear more about Olga’s unique journey and insights into state tax.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Law is problem-solving in the real world
Navigating remote employee tax issues
Compliance with remote work taxes
Residency audit complexities
Maine Safe Harbor
New Hampshire residency requirements explained

Quotables:

"One of the reasons I like to work with our employment lawyers is because we talk a lot about, how we are going to document this information, and what kind of policies the company should have in place.” -Olga Goldman [16:13]
"There are two paths to being treated as a resident. One is common law domicile and two is statutory residency. So New Hampshire does not have a statutory residency. It's common law principles and they have a statute that defines what a residence is.” -Olga Goldman [25:25]
"If you're in a situation where you have this super low bar to clear to be treated as a New Hampshire resident under this department position, and you don't have a resident tax credit, which, to me, does not seem entirely constitutional, it's going to result in a lot of double taxation.” -Olga Goldman [29:33]
“The pandemic opened the playing field, but then you have these established larger employers who maybe they did and maybe they didn't shift their policies during the pandemic, but then they contracted again. So they're kind of shifting back because of these tax policies, tax rules, and the difficulty of compliance.” -Olga Goldman [18:01]

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In this episode of SALTovation, Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran continue their conversation with Masha Yevzelman, Litigator at Fredrikson & Byron, P.A. They discuss the challenges of litigating tax cases and the lack of consistency in state tax laws. They highlight the need for factor presence thresholds and small business exemptions. Masha shares examples of significant cases, including a property tax exemption dispute between government entities and a residency case involving conflicting state interpretations. Masha, Judy, and Meredith emphasize the importance of understanding the impact of tax decisions on individuals and businesses.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Factor presence threshold standards for income tax
Challenges faced by large businesses in tax litigation
Impact of state tax rates on controversy
Tax consequences of residency decisions
Shift in remote work and its impact on tax considerations

Quotables:

"When you look at a visual of which states have factor presence for income tax purposes, it's pretty clear that it's a very small number of states. But what's interesting about the MTC position is the MTC said if you're going to adopt this website position state, you should have factor presence.” -Masha Yevzelman [01:27]
"That's why the litigation is a challenge. You've got to have the big taxpayers doing it, not the little guys unless there's a giant class action that takes time, effort and bandwidth to support. So you just don't see the advocacy unless you're a large multinational business.” -Judy Vorndran [03:01]
“Some cases really aren't suitable for settlement. Like I said, it's kind of an all or nothing proposition. It's an ongoing issue. Clients need certainty, too. And so even like settling a few years in an unprincipled way doesn't fix it because then what about all the later years where the facts are the same and the law is the same and what are we going to do then?” -Masha Yevzelman [04:50]
"We're seeing more aggressive state positions. If you know that that's the position of the Department of Revenue and the auditor is applying it and the appeals officer is going to apply it, then really the only way to challenge it is through litigation.” -Masha Yevzelman [06:01]

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In this episode of SALTovation, Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran speak with Masha Yevzelman, Litigator at Fredrikson & Byron, P.A. She shares her journey into the field of law and discusses the various areas of law she practices, including tax disputes and litigation, and the increasing trend of audits and enforcement in state and local tax. Masha talks about her experiences with audits and trends in the field, including the increase in Nexus audits and residency audits. She also provides insights on remote employee compliance and the impact of marketplace laws.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The increasing trend of audits and enforcement in state and local tax
Licensure issues when practicing in multiple states
The potential impact of new legislation in Minnesota
The challenges and compliance issues related to remote employees
The Wayfair decision and marketplace laws

Quotables:

“I'm seeing marketplace audits, because of the proliferation of the marketplace laws across the country, faster than anything has ever happened in the history of state and local tax, in two years.” -Masha Yevzelman [06:14]
"I think in terms of audit trends, I think they're going to be going after 86 to 72 really hard, and that is getting litigated, and it's going to be litigated more and more.” -Masha Yevzelman [08:33]
"I tell some of my clients it's three thousand a year in compliance costs to hire a remote employee. I'm sorry that you didn't realize your agnostic hiring policy was going to create all this compliance. You're there and you may not make any money, but you still have all these compliance duties.” -Masha Yevzelman [19:40]
“I think remote work is a really big space right now in the advice side because I think the taxpayers and clients are kind of trying to figure out what do we do with all these remote workers. I think that will transition to the states doing something about it, too.” -Masha Yevzelman [20:34]

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Tax and Legal Challenges in the Cannabis Industry with Nick Richards: Part 2

In this episode, Meredith and Judy continue their conversation with Nick Richards, partner and co-chair of the cannabis law group at Greenspoon Marder LLP. They explore the differences between the psilocybin and cannabis industries, specifically focusing on the challenges they face with federal regulations, taxes, and audits. Nick talks about the implications of the federal tax code 280E. He also discusses the economic benefits of marijuana businesses to their local communities, the stigma and education that still need to be overcome for progress to be made, and the potentially life-changing palliative effects of psilocybin for those suffering from terminal illnesses.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Tax implications for the psilocybin industry
Cannabis industry challenges and opportunities
The battle against stigma in the psilocybin and cannabis sectors

What You Will Learn:

01:00 The 280E “add-back”

08:37 Stigma and challenges surrounding the use of psilocybin for terminal illness

18:27 How tax professionals can help in the cannabis and psilocybin industries

Quotables:

“The psilocybin industry doesn't want to be compared to the marijuana industry. The problem is that the federal government is going to see them the same and the roadmap that we have, the experience that we have, is from the cannabis industry.” -Nick Richards [00:25]
“When the cannabis industry got started, people didn't understand 280E. When 280E showed up, they sort of said that can't be right. Here is the reality of 280E in a very simple example. 280E applies to deductions but not to the cost of goods sold. If I buy a mushroom to sell and I pay $2 for that mushroom and then I pay my salesperson a $2 salary and they sell it for $5, I just made a dollar. But because of 280E, I am not going to be able to deduct the $2 I paid on my salesperson.” -Nick Richards [02:37]
“Because of the way our system works, state tax returns start at line 35 of the federal tax return. So if you're in a company that is subject to 280E, you're going to pay that tax again at the state level because it takes off from line whatever of the local level.” -Judy Vorndran [04:45]
“I don't think it is fair to treat a legitimate business like it's not a legitimate business. It's kind of what you're saying Indirectly by disallowing expenses and otherwise, and then regulating and retransferring things that are muddled.” -Nick Richards [10:20]

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In this episode, Meredith and Judy speak with Nick Richards, an expert in taxation for the cannabis industry, and partner and co-chair of the cannabis law group at Greenspoon Marder LLP. Nick shares his journey from working in the IRS to becoming an expert in cannabis taxation. He also discusses how he navigates the ever-changing landscape of taxation for cannabis businesses. Together, they discuss the high taxes and legal challenges that cannabis businesses face. They also explore the recent changes in the classification of Delta Eight and Delta Nine and psilocybin, and how they impact the industry.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Nick's Journey to the Cannabis and Psilocybin Industries
Regulatory Changes in Colorado for Psilocybin and Cannabis
Mycelium and the Cannabis Industry

What You Will Learn:

04:34 Tax Ops' Proactive Approach to Cannabis and CBD Companies

06:11 Tax Implications of Hemp and Psilocybin in the Cannabis Industry

13:48 Understanding the Language of the Psilocybin Space

15:14 The Benefits of Psilocybin and Mushrooms

Quotables:

“There are not robust regulations around the marijuana industry. So this year what we're seeing in that space is that a lot of those CBD manufacturers went ahead and were doing something called Delta Eight and Delta Nine, which is THC derived from hemp. Now many states are going back in and saying they think you're a marijuana company. Guess what tax applies to all of your sales for the past four years? The marijuana tax.” -Nick Richards [05:16]
“There's just so many things I think that are still wrong about how we're handling this legal industry. And now we're, like, going after it more for classification issues when there's no alternative substance in a THC, going back to penalties.” -Judy Vorndran [06:31]
“The rules are still being written in the mushroom space. It looks to us like it's sort of less retail and more medical, which is good for the industry if that allows them to be profitable. Because it starts to align with a case out there in the marijuana space called Champ rather than subsequent cases that found that all the activities of a cannabis-related enterprise were subject to a code section called 280 E rather than just the specific area where the sale of marijuana was occurring.” -Nick Richards [09:20]
“The problem with a lot of the cannabis cases was that they put so many expenses on the other non-280 E company that it could never make a profit. So it was found to be not a legitimate company and merely just part of the cannabis company. And again, that's because they're so limited, the only other thing they can sell are bongs and T-shirts. -Nick Richards [13:24]

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Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran continue their conversation with Wendy Walker, a Solution Principal at Sovos, in the latest episode of the SALTovation podcast. They talk about the state of the IRS, federal tax legislation, and how the current policies are trickling down into states. Ohio, Colorado, the District of Columbia, and Maryland eliminated paper processing for withholding taxes, 1099s, and W-2s, drastically reducing electronic filing threshold requirements. Wendy, Meredith, and Judy discuss the challenges that come with trying to stay on top of different reporting regulations across different legal entities, both at the federal and state levels.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Tax compliance challenges for businesses and governments
Tax Reform in Colorado
Understanding the challenges of the IRS caseload

What You Will Learn:

03:20 The Challenges of Tax Reporting and Government Iteration
15:31 Tax Compliance Challenges for Businesses
25:02 Practical Solutions to Simplify Taxpayer Systems
33:06 Cybersecurity and Taxation

Quotables:

“We see the IRS reducing the electronic filing threshold requirement so that they can get at paper processing. They're trying to eliminate paper, they're kryptonite according to the taxpayer advocate. Even the IRS recognizes that there's a subset of the population that's never going to get off paper so they do need to offer that.” -Wendy Walker [01:23]
“There is no happy medium. It's like the government's forcing businesses into sending it into their formats and their requirements. But on the flip side, business needs to conform to gap rules and other regulations and legal requirements. So it is very difficult, particularly when there's such disparity across so many agencies.” -Wendy Walker [05:09]
“Small startup businesses are not complying for good reasons. They can't they don't have the wherewithal, and they don't have the tools. But here they are taking a chomp out of the native businesses, taking away from all the bricks and mortar, but they're not fully compliant. So they're taking tax dollars away from governments to change the character of how you and I do business. And all those legacy companies are gone.” -Judy Vorndran [05:36]
“The IRS is promoting more bank account reporting or expanded bank account reporting for certain taxpayers. So if we're going to fix them, let's fix the problem. If they need transparency, let's find a way to give them transparency instead of giving them more information that just sort of directionally gets them there from a compliance perspective.” -Wendy Walker [23:10]

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Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran host Wendy Walker, a Solution Principal at Sovos, in the latest episode of the SALTovation podcast. They discuss the Inflation Reduction Act, which provided the IRS with $80 billion to upgrade the taxpayer experience. The recent Taxpayer Advocate Report to Congress, however, revealed that the IRS is short-staffed and underfunded, resulting in a surge of unanswered phone calls and delayed correspondence, which is causing a rising federal deficit. Wendy and Meredith suggest potential solutions for the IRS, such as acquiring funding to improve their service and transitioning from conventional communication methods to modern ones.

Topics discussed in this episode:

What is the Inflation Reduction Act?
IRS Funding and Taxpayer Experience Improvement
Potential Improvements for IRS: Modernization

What You Will Learn:

7:53 IRS Focus on Digital Asset Reporting, Modernization, and Tax Literacy
15:00 Benefits of the Child Tax Credit and Taxpayer Education Efforts
16:04 IRS Funding for Pre-Filing Services, Education, and Taxpayer Advocacy

Quotables:

“In 2020, the Taxpayer Advocate Report to Congress indicated that the third most serious problem that the IRS faced is that they are significantly underfunded to service taxpayers and collect tax. The report cited that they're unable to answer millions of taxpayer phone calls, they're unable to process timely correspondence, and that our federal deficit continues to grow as a result of that underfunding.” -Wendy Walker [00:55]
“How many people want to do a job that feels like everybody's mad at you? Right. How do you encourage a culture that takes care of these people who are trying to care for the people? So we have to make it like, less adversarial, but then also generate those people to come in.” -Judy Vorndran [07:09]
“99% of the revenues that our federal government operates on get collected by the IRS. So you would think that we would be more concerned with ensuring they had the funds and the people right to make sure those systems can do that efficiently.” -Wendy Walker [07:53]
“The IRS doesn't have funding to do any of that education outreach on their normal appropriations that they're given from Congress. So funding is important for the IRS to be able to bring things out of paper publications that are really hard to find and are buried and get them out onto the Internet leverage searches so that taxpayers can really take advantage of some education before filing.“ -Wendy Walker [16:47]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Stacey Roberts is joined by Tim Noonan, Tax Lawyer and Partner at Hodgson Russ in New York, to discuss state and local tax issues. They talk about tax and legal issues related to private equity firms targeting certain companies and the importance of understanding where the target companies operate to determine any filing obligations. Stacey and Timothy also discuss the 2018 Wayfair case, and why tax professionals need to be knowledgeable to help clients navigate the process within state and local jurisdictions.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The need for expertise in transaction tax matters during big deals
What is the 2018 Wayfair case?
Tax implications of private equity and hedge fund transactions

What You Will Learn:

2:10 State and Local Tax Considerations for Private Equity Firms
8:07 Understanding Nexus and State Tax Implications for Business Transactions
11:54 Residency Rules and Tax Audits in Different States

Quotables:

“State tax issues and private equity deals are an underrated issue. You and I think it's the most important issue because that's what we do every day. But we've gotten called in on both sides of these deals where someone's getting acquired and they haven't collected sales taxes in many years. We have to clean that up and figure out if your sales are taxable in this many states. We clean that up through voluntary disclosure.”- Timothy Noonan [04:22]
“With the Wayfair case in 2018, you now have all these sellers who might not be watching what happens at the Supreme Court level and don't realize that every state has come out and said if you have a certain amount of sales in the state, which isn't very high threshold, you should be collecting sales tax in 46 different states and thousands of local taxing jurisdictions. So that can be messy.”- Timothy Noonan [07:11]
“The rules in most states are either similar or the same. Someone leaving Colorado has the same residency test as someone leaving New York. There's a domicile test. California's rule is a little bit different, but they all sort of sound like the same concepts of this domicile test. So in that sense, the rules are the same.”- Timothy Noonan [12:02]
“A lot of wealth creation that happens for folks in the private equity world is through pieces of their target companies they acquire and then they sell again. It is carried interest. It is the piece of these companies that are treated as capital gain. It's intangible. So in addition to that capital gain benefit of carried interest, it has an important effect on state taxes too.“- Timothy Noonan [16:34]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran continue their conversation with Alex Oxford, Founder of TaxValet. Alex discusses how businesses have begun to shift their traditional cold and concrete environment to one with more emotional intelligence. He shares why he believes this shift has allowed for more of an emotionally safe environment for people to work in and how creating a culture with more emotional intelligence, allows for better communication and collaboration between teams, ultimately leading to more success for companies.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The value of creating emotionally safe and open work environments
Assigning tasks to team members based on individual strengths
Using data to help your client make the best decisions

What You Will Learn:

1:47 Creating a Safe and Accepting Work Environment at Tax Ballet
9:37 Sales Tax Registration and Employee Engagement Platforms
12:41 Exploring the Emotional Side of Business

Quotables:

“Every single person is unique in their own way, even the people who aren't that unique, because sometimes tax accountants, are just kind of tax accountants. And that's okay. Creating an environment where it's okay to show up and be who you are, and you will be loved, accepted, cherished just as you are is important.” -Alex Oxford [02:27]
“If our core purpose is to transform negative emotions and it's something positive for our clients, partners, and employees, if we have too many clients, then we're not going to be able to deliver on that promise for new clients coming in the door. And we're not going to be able to deliver it for our employees because they're going to be overworked and stressed out.” -Alex Oxford [07:08]
“We're able to do surveys for different departments. But when we talk about data, I think it's really easy for a lot of business owners and data junkies like myself to just think about the quantitative. But a lot of it is the qualitative information gathering.” -Alex Oxford [11:19]

“One of the things that I'm the most excited about is being able to proactively identify issues with our clients that need to be escalated higher up in the chain of command before the client realizes it needs to be escalated and before the employee realizes it needs to be escalated and then being able to look at these issues and pinpoint what the root cause is.” -Alex Oxford [12:21]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran speak with Alex Oxford, Founder of TaxValet, a company focused on providing innovative tax solutions and helping clients navigate the complexities of the tax system with comprehensive solutions that are tailored to their individual needs. Alex discusses common emotional reactions clients have, like stress, anxiety, and overwhelm, when walking through sales tax problems and why it is important to create positive experiences for them. He also talks about TaxValet's core purpose: to transform negative emotions into something positive for its clients, partners, and employees.

Topics discussed in this episode:

TaxValet's core purpose and approach to sales tax
Building a client experience tailored to their individual needs
Creating psychological safety in the workplace and in client relationships

What You Will Learn:

[02:07] Exploring the need for professional services in the SMB Market
[06:26] Streamlining tax solutions for E-commerce and software businesses
[15:40] Creating a culture of safety and transparency in the workplace

Quotables:

“Our purpose as a company is to transform negative emotions into something positive for our clients, our partners, and our employees. We are looking at sales tax not just being about the numbers, but understanding our clients are stressed out and overwhelmed and that is the problem we are solving.” - Alex Oxford [04:37]
“We know that as a company if we are there to support you as an employee you will be there to support the business later on. Focusing on trust and creating psychological safety so that people feel safe to talk about things and will challenge each other.” - Alex Oxford [16:32]
“I’m a big believer in honesty, transparency and taking care of the people that work with you and are a part of your family.” - Judy Vorndran [17:20]
“As leaders we owe it to our team to be the best leaders we can be, to show up as servant leaders and help them grow, develop, and realize what they are fully capable of.” - Alex Oxford [17:26]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran continue their discussion with Jenn Penn, a Contract Lobbyist at Dome Strategies in Colorado, on simplifying tax through lobbying and other special interest groups. Jenn talks about TABOR, the Tax Payer Bill of Rights, and discusses how much power, because of the constitution, can the state impose on cities. She also shares the 2023 goals of the Colorado Sales Tax Coalition and what they hope to see the legislator consider in this next session.

Join us in simplifying Colorado’s Sales Tax at simplifycosalestax.com.

Topics discussed in this episode:

TABOR and the Colorado Municipal League
Non-partisan legislation and
2023 goals of the Simplify Colorado Sales Tax Coalition

What You Will Learn:

[01:15] SB 2232
[06:08] TABOR
[13:02] Goals for enhancing the SUTS program in 2023

Quotables:

“The Colorado Municipal League is a non-profit that represents the municipal governments at the legislator but they are also an advocacy and informational arm back to those local governments for all of the things that pass.” - Jenn Penn [04:12]
“A lot of cities don’t have captive legal teams and have to source that with a third party. A municipal league is the keeper of the information for all the different cities and a tremendously helpful resource.” - Judy Vorndran [04:43]
“Joint resolutions direct local governments and the business community to work together and have conversations to find a better, more simplified way to work on building permits and building permit process.” - Jenn Penn [14:53]
“Colorado is one of the first states to implement the retail delivery fee. What is to prohibit another state from doing the same thing? There is a lot of precedent nationally that could be set based off of this delivery fee.” - Meredith Smith [18:54]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith Smith and Judy Vorndran talk with Jenn Penn, a Contract Lobbyist at Dome Strategies in Colorado. Jenn works with businesses to simplify tax and build coalitions for other special interest groups. Jenn talks about legislative sessions and shares the vision of the SUTS system, a sales and use tax online filing system within the Colorado Department of Revenue for businesses and local governments to work together and have one place to file their sales and use taxes.

Join us in simplifying Colorado’s Sales Tax at simplifycosalestax.com.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The formation of the sales tax coalition
Legislative sessions and lobbying
The SUTS System

What You Will Learn:

[01:21] Jenn’s professional journey
[11:45] The Sales Tax Coalition
[19:22] Creating a competitive economic environment in Colorado

Quotables:

“Lobbyists are really an integral part of the process. We are targeted communications. A lot of businesses hire PR. Lobbyists really help businesses, non-profits, and other organizations communicate with the state legislator.” - Jenn Penn [02:37]
“The mission of the sales tax coalition is to reform Colorado’s complicated sales tax system with the goal of making it fair, simple, and predictable for businesses in a way that is revenue neutral to have any adverse impacts on local and state public services and create a competitive economic environment for Colorado that will attract additional employers and trade organizations.” - Jenn Penn [18:53]
“The general view of taxpayers isn't such that they won’t file. They just need to know how to file and they need to have a mechanism that is easy enough to understand to make it happen.” - Meredith Smith [21:16]
“People are starting to see with technology getting better and better, there is more compliance. This is good for business. Because it is meant to be a voluntary system, not an extractive system. It is a win-win for business and governments. ” - Judy Vorndran [17:13]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Alex Korzhen, Tram Le, Meredith Smith, and Stacey Roberts discuss the importance of having a state and local tax provider that is knowledgeable about all tax types that states impose. They also discuss the importance and value of taking a holistic approach to tax services and how sales tax software vendors tend to not offer that approach.

Topics discussed in this episode:

What to think about when you buy state and local tax services
Multi-industries and multi-tax types
Risk analysis and evaluating circumstances for your business

What You Will Learn:

[01:21] Overlapping complexities of state and local tax laws
[03:55] Sales tax software vendors
[07:23] Making decisions and understanding risks with your SALT provider

Quotables:

“It is important to make sure your tax provider is knowledgable and they have that big picture understanding of all tax types and not just a narrow understanding.” - Tram Le [00:52]
“We are a multi-state provider. It sets us apart. We are well-versed in all states, not just one or two. We bring a different perspective to taxpayers who are in multiple jurisdictions.” - Stacey Roberts [02:01]
“We can see the big picture and we can see the macro ramifications. We can make decisions, not in a vacuum and it is one of the biggest advantages of working with a group like us.” - Alex Korzhen [03:02]
“We will always give you what the law says but we are nimble enough to also say it is up to you to make what that business decision is and to make a practical decision based off of your circumstances.” - Meredith Smith [07:24]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith Smith, and Tram Le talk continue their discussion with Dan DeLau, a founding partner of TaxOps, and Professor at the School of Business at Colorado Christian University. DeLau shares the important attributes of students that are considering pursuing an accounting major. He talks about why individuals need to possess the ability to interact with clients so they can provide excellent tax advice that clients can benefit from.

He also shares his thoughts on how recruiting students before college could bring more people into the accounting profession.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Attributes of successful accountants
Recruiting high schoolers into accounting programs
Misconceptions about what accountants do

What You Will Learn:

[01:34] Daniel DeLau on advising students pursuing business majors
[11:38] The need for accountants as complexities in state and local tax grow
[18:29] Presenting accounting opportunities to students before college

Quotables:

“It is not just green visors, playing with numbers, and auditing bank records. Something that has kept me in the accounting profession is all the different types of businesses and industries I get to work with on a daily basis.” - Meredith Smith [04:04]
“There are more and more rules and complexities that accountants have to deal with. Whether they are focused on tax work or auditing, those additional complexities are the reason we need more and more people going into the profession to respond to the situations that our clients might be up against.” - Daniel DeLau [11:30]
“Data is showing that students by the eighth grade are making career choices. As they choose classes to take in high school they are already deciding what career path they desire.” - Tram Le [19:45]
If we want to increase the pipeline of individuals going into accounting, we need to start well before the college level. We need to hit the high schools and have the high schools highlight the benefits of what an accounting profession can be.” - Daniel DeLau [16:48]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith Smith, and Tram Le talk with Dan DeLau, a founding partner of TaxOps, and Professor at the School of Business at Colorado Christian University, with decades of domestic and international experience in accounting. DeLau and the team discuss why the number of students enrolling in accounting is down, what that means for businesses, and the future of the accounting profession.

They also talk about how globalization has created complexities in accounting and tax laws, and the additional requirements it places on smaller organizations.

Topics discussed in this episode:

How globalization and the internet have changed tax laws
The decline in accounting enrollment over the past 30 years
Present-day hurdles to excelling in accounting and tax law

What You Will Learn:

[01:44] Daniel DeLau on globalization
[07:35] Complexities in the accounting profession
[13:10] State-by-state requirements for obtaining an accounting degree

Quotables:

“There are a majority of reasons we have seen a decline in the profession over the last twenty to thirty years. One of them is if you look at the traits of a good accountant they have good time management skills, pay attention to detail, and have good organizational skills. Those are the same traits that are important for someone who wants to focus in computer information systems.” - Daniel DeLau [09:13]
“In finance and data analytics students don’t need that extra year of education. In Texas, we require one hundred and fifty hours, but in most states candidates need one hundred and twenty hours to sit and take the accounting exam. It is another big hurdle.” - Tram Le [12:38]
“I have to put on my sales hat and entice students to pull the trigger on an accounting major today. I talk to them about the benefits associated with the profession but many of them ultimately have those critical thinking skills you need and they just get it. It is like a puzzle to them and they enjoy solving it.” - Daniel DeLau [14:19]
“I think when you are younger people talk about different careers. But in terms of becoming an accountant, I feel I was recruited by my advisor in undergrad who was an accounting professor. He encouraged me to take this path and I’m not sure I would be in this field if it wasn’t for career mentorship.” - Tram Le [15:48]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Alex Korzhen, Tram Le, Meredith Smith and Stacey Roberts discuss how companies are increasingly agnostic about hiring as they gain trust and confidence in their remote workforces. This is giving employees more freedom to move about and creating some interesting tax ramifications when either employees fail to tell their employers they are on the move or interdepartmental communications fail. The employer may not even hear about an employee move until tax issues arise.

Learn what happens when employee and internal communications fail to account for employees on the move, and what it looks like when they do.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Navigating the internal communications ecosystem
The differences between a VDA and VCA
State-by-state income tax ramifications

What You Will Learn:

[01:44] Client story: Voluntary Compliance Program
[06:49] Sales tax by state
[10:01] Data mining within departments

Quotables:

“Recruiting, HR, IT, Finance, and Tax all have regular business activities as part of their daily function and they make decisions that affect state tax obligations. If those decisions are made without the proper steps being taken to get some sort of governmental or departmental licensure, then one department will begin to data mine another.” - Alex Korzhen [09:17]
“As we have come out of covid, companies are still barely agnostic about where they hire and allow employees to move around, whether they know it or not. That is where issues arise. Payroll is maybe not getting notified about it until that person goes to file their return. Unfortunately, some companies are behind the eight ball on that. - Stacey Roberts [04:40]
“The sales department does a disservice to the finance and accounting department because they either don’t get the right information to charge the right tax in the right jurisdiction, or the right tax at all. It screws up the sourcing for many things.” - Tram Le [08:00]
“It is not just payroll we have to worry about. We have to worry about the income tax and the sales tax. Payroll can be messy but finance needs to work with us to make sure all the accounts and files are set up properly. It is a domino affect.” - Meredith Smith [08:40]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we talk about voluntary disclosure agreements and why you would want to recommend them to a client. Alex Korzhen, Tram Le, and Meredith Smith discuss how a VDA can be an efficient self-audit that is cost-effective. They also discuss how to evaluate the pricing of the VDA process and consult with your clients, if it is determined a voluntary disclosure agreement is necessary.

Topics discussed in this episode:

The VDA process and determining the value of them for clients
How VDA’s are priced state to state

What You Will Learn:

[00:49] Defining a VDA
[05:54] How to advise clients
[09:40] Working on a state-by-state basis

Quotables:

“A VDA is a legal agreement that provides documentation that says I took my taxes seriously so I can provide this in due diligence in funding, in acquisition activity. So we do a lot of clean up and remediation as a result of due diligence.” - Meredith Smith [02:47]
“States are much easier to deal with under a VDA scenario than if they caught you if you received a nexus questionnaire or if you are being audited. It is not hostile but there is this undertone of “Gotcha!”. So you either approach on your terms or you are reviewed on their terms. ” - Alex Korzhen [04:06]
“The cost of a VDA, to negotiate that agreement as well as provide that self-audit to a state, pretty much pays for itself. I think that is a great reason for a client to do it.” - Tram Le [04:50]
“Determining if a VDA is worth it depends on the process at the state level or local jurisdictions. I think it really depends on what that process entails. Are we having to fill out a ton of forms or provide a narrative? The timing factor plays a big role as well. If we are dealing with bad data we can’t do the self-audit efficiently. ” - Tram Le [06:00]

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In the second episode of a two-part series, we continue our conversation with Paul Williams, Senior Tax Correspondent at Law 360, and our own Judy Vorndran. Paul discusses boomerang issues, which are when old concepts get new life in the court system, and trending issues across the nation.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Halstead Bead’s case in Louisiana and other cases related to home rule cities
Wayfair’s lawsuit against Lakewood for a $600K sales tax bill

What You Will Learn:

[00:26] Halstead Bead’s case in Louisiana and home rule jurisdictions
[07:27] Wayfair’s lawsuit against Lakewood
[11:02] Trends from a litigation perspective

Quotables:

“There’s a push and pull there is to how much power the local governments wanted to retain for the local tax collection versus what the sponsors thought that the state may need to do is what some would argue to comply with Wayfair.” - Paul Williams [02:53]
“It’s very interesting how we’ve given this authority to the locals, which I appreciate why they need it. I appreciate why our states need authority, because the federal government doesn't give them enough money, but it does create a lot of complexity in tax compliance.” - Judy Vorndran [06:04]
“When you look at both Wayfair’s case now and the Halstead Bead case, it does bring up the question of to what extent, if any, do home rule jurisdictions… what are limitations to their authorities potentially or what burdens can varying local rules create for companies that just want to comply with the Wayfair decision?” - Paul Williams [07:34]
“Since Wayfair came down, and different practitioners we’ve talked to and different tax conferences we’ve reported on, practitioners have raised the question as to whether or not Wayfair gave local governments the authority to also impose economic nexus for sales and use tax.” - Paul Williams [08:17]

Relevant Links:

Paul Williams on Law360: law360.com/tax-authority/search?q=reporter:%22Paul+Williams%22

Paul Williams on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/paul-williams-56183567

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In the first episode of a two-part series, we talk with Paul Williams, Senior Tax Correspondent at Law 360, and our own Judy Vorndran. Paul talks about how he selects which newsworthy topics to cover in the state and local tax universe. He also discusses boomerang issues, which are when old concepts get new life in the court system, and trending issues across the nation.

Topics discussed in this episode:

How Paul determines what to report for Law360
Zilka v. Tax Review Board City of Philadelphia and why Paul felt this case was worth following

What You Will Learn:

[00:44] Paul’s initial thoughts on covering SALT
[02:16] The hardest concept to grasp
[04:59] How Paul determines what to report on
[11:35] Zilka v. City of Philadelphia’s Tax Review Board

Quotables:

“I learned very quickly that there’s a lot here in the state and local tax world, and I had to hit the ground running and get up to speed as quickly as I could.” - Paul Williams [01:59]
“At the end of the day, it just comes down to news judgment as well.” - Paul Williams [06:20]
“There’s a large volume out there, but we do spend a good amount of time trying to track those to the extent we can, just to see as soon as something moves again. Maybe it’s picked up interest in the legislature.” - Paul Williams [08:41]
“It had a lot of elements there that just seem really newsworthy, and certainly we’re dealing with a lot of complex multistate issues that the other taxpayers or tax practitioners are following.” - Paul Williams [14:32]

Relevant Links:

Paul Williams on Law360: law360.com/tax-authority/search?q=reporter:%22Paul+Williams%22

Paul Williams on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/paul-williams-56183567

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In the second episode of a two-part series, Meredith Smith and Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, continue their conversation with Michael Cataldo, of Cataldo Tax Law in California. Michael continues to share his insight on the publications released by the Franchise Tax Board, that discuss sales of services and market-based sourcing in California. He also talks about some of his favorite cases outside the state.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Recent ruling regarding California’s sales of services and market-based sourcing
California’s most recent ruling on sales of service

What You Will Learn:

[00:28] California’s policy on alternative proportment
[01:51] Sales of services in California
[09:51] Michael’s favorite cases outside of California
[15:05] Retroactive tax laws
[19:05] What creates nexus
[21:06] Regulations on market-based sourcing

Quotables:

“It’s very hard to articulate exactly what was going on, what they’re doing. You have to do a lot of reading between the lines, see what they’re trying to do.” - Michael Cataldo [02:21]
“The things I get interested in is where’s this going from here? And it takes a long time for things to develop in the state and local tax world to where this is going.” - Michael Cataldo [11:29]
“Technology is moving so fast and what’s not going online. There’s going to be some challenges for them to figure out how to comply.” - Michael Cataldo [14:27]
“But the constitution applies to all the states, so these constitutional arguments apply to all of them.” - Michael Cataldo [20:11]

Relevant Links:

Cataldo Tax Law: cataldotaxlaw.com

Michael Cataldo on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michael-cataldo-aaa9205/

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In the first episode in a two-part series of the SALTovation podcast, Meredith Smith and Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, speak with Michael Cataldo, of Cataldo Tax Law in California. Michael shares his insight with his experience on Franchise Tax Board, public accounting and private law on the publications released by the Franchise Tax Board. He also talks about tax issues and cases related to Public Law 86-272 and business versus non-business income.

Topics discussed in this episode:

Current issues discussed by Franchise Tax Board including market-based sourcing and multi-state practice
Business vs. non-business income and what qualifies as doing business in the state
Public Law 86-272 and alternative proportment

What You Will Learn:

[00:57] An introduction to Michael Cataldo
[03:21] Current tax issues
[10:20] Business vs. non-business income
[17:55] What qualifies as doing business in the state
[22:05] Interpreting Public Law 86-272
[29:28] The procedure for alternative proportment

Quotables:

“Over the years, there’s been this sort of gradual shift where my clients used to be mainly located in California, and now more and more of them are located outside the state.” - Michael Cataldo [04:09]
“It used to be a little more debatable and it’s still not completely decided, but is it business or non-business income? You have to look at that question.” - Michael Cataldo [11:38]
“Trying to explain that concept of business income vs. non-business income to the unknowing, it’s like ‘But I’m not in the business of selling land.’ But ‘Ok, fine, but did you use that land in order to create your other business income?’ It’s almost a given that if you call something non-business income, you will be audited. Like 100%” - Meredith Smith [14:03]
“These issues come all the time and there is room to argue about it. Now California has their rule and regulation on substantial and unusual sales are thrown out of the sales factor but the income is still in there. The question is ‘Hey, is this a fair reflection of income?’ Sometimes it’s not.” - Michael Cataldo [17:00]

Relevant Links:

Cataldo Tax Law: cataldotaxlaw.com

Michael Cataldo on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michael-cataldo-aaa9205/

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In this episode, Meredith Smith and Connie Zoerink, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, share their thoughts and key takeaways on Colorado’s Retail Delivery Fee after attending a meeting with the Department of Revenue. The delivery fee that retailers must collect for any deliveries by a motor vehicle in Colorado goes into effect on July 1.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Jaye Calhoun, a partner in the New Orleans office of Kean Miller, about some of the challenges businesses face when dealing with state and local tax. They discuss some of the current constitutional amendments and bills advancing through the state legislature and how it could potentially affect taxpayers. Jaye also shares how her broad exposure to many tax organizations has influenced the issues she chooses to dig into as an attorney.

Topics discussed in this episode:

How state and local tax issues impact taxpayers who do business in Louisiana
What it means to be a remote seller
The current constitutional amendment on the ballot called The Louisiana Adjustment of Ad Valorem Tax Rates Amendment
The bill advancing through the state legislature that deals with the interest on payments made under protest
The leadership position Jaye has held
What tax issues to look out for in the future

What You Will Learn:

[04:56] How SALT issues impact Louisiana businesses
[08:01] Louisiana’s version of uniformity
[15:12] City rate differentials
[15:43] What are remote sellers
[18:18] How big companies handle home rule city taxes
[23:31] The bill that deals with payments made under protest
[30:33] Why Jaye likes to the collaborate aspect of tax practice
[37:53] The leadership positions Jaye has held
[44:18] Tax issues to watch out for

Quotables:

“The real issue that you face when you deal with Louisiana and the sales and use tax area, is that the parishes each get to independently administer and collect their own taxes. So, you don’t really have one centralized collector.” - Jaye Calhoun [05:46]
“We don’t want people gaming the system, essentially paying and then we have to pay them back with interest later, but you’re not investing with the tax collector….I can’t even imagine a client coming to me saying, you know, I looked at options in the market and I think I’m going to go invest with the tax collector.” - Jaye Calhoun [27:56]
“So we as TaxOps are actively engaged in this Colorado tax auditor coalition….They don’t want to be the bad guy. They want to teach people to do the right thing. But at the same time, they’re there to collect money for their cities, but it is a lot of like open sharing information resources..So there is a lot of collaboration and inviting in.” - Meredith Smith [32:08]
“I think the federal government does a really good job of educating the public as to what the rules are. They do the enforcement, they do the collection, but they understand their mission to educate as well. As Meredith was saying, departments don’t have a lot of money now, but maybe that is where your tax bar or professional organizations can help.” - Jaye Calhoun [34:57]

Relevant Links:

Jaye Calhoun at Kean Miller: https://www.keanmiller.com/jaye-a-calhoun.html

Jaye Calhoun on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-calhoun-8b9b459/

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In the second episode of a two-part series, we continue our conversation with Leah Robinson, an attorney and state and local tax partner with Mayer Brown in New York. Leah continues to discuss some of the most interesting tax cases she has litigated, her thoughts on what could be deemed government overreach, and where she has seen some recent state auditor “gotchas” that we should all be aware of.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How Leah approaches each case
After being at the IRS and then representing clients against the state, how does she feel about the mentality with the IRS and the state?
Where she sees government overreach beyond what is allowable under the constitution

What You Will Discover:

[00:24] How Leah decides how to approach each case
[02:38] The mentality between the IRS vs the state
[06:24] Looking how a product functions from a tech point of view
[10:27] Examples of overreach
[15:09] Where she sees government overreach
[28:06] An interesting thing about the compliance effort

Quotables:

“There definitely are cases where we want an answer. We need the answer, and if we can have a settlement that also gives us a going forward answer, fine, but you can’t always get that.”- Leah Robinson [01:57]
“And I get it. The business folks in a company want to describe themselves a certain way. They want to appeal to their client base, but that doesn’t mean that that’s what the technology really is doing.”- Leah Robinson [06:45]
“I think post-Wayfair, there’s been an assumption that economic nexus is the end of the story.”- Leah Robinson [15:45]
“I still think physical presence is an easier standard, and cookies, even though they are intangibles, they still take up space, right? My hard drive has a limited amount of space. So even things that are intangible like software, they still take up space on the server, on a hard drive, etc.”- Leah Robinson [25:35]

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In the first episode of a two-part series, we chat with Leah Robinson, an attorney and state and local tax partner with Mayer Brown in New York. Leah talks about some of the most interesting tax cases she has litigated, her thoughts on what could be deemed government overreach, and where she has seen some recent state auditor “gotchas” that we should all be aware of.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What are some of the most interesting SALT cases that Leah has seen and litigated?

What You Will Discover:

[00:43] Leah’s background
[05:24] The first case she helped with the litigation
[07:48] Her favorite cases to work on
[12:58] The decision whether to litigate
[20:08] The time it takes for private letter rulings and advisory opinions
[24:18] Whether to pay or not pay

Quotables:

“What do they do in some of the other courts when you need to know an answer, but there’s no way to get one?”- Leah Robinson [10:45]
“There’s a lot of sensitivities that go into the corporation…, but the business side decision on whether to litigate, not just how likely are we to win, but all of these soft considerations. And often in my experience, those often rule the day.”- Leah Robinson [16:51]
“It’s actually why it’s so important for us to get along, right? There are a number of us who are direct competitors, but are also friendly and like connect with each other. Obviously, not breaking confidentiality provisions and closing agreements, but getting a sense of what’s going on and what issues are we seeing go up, where the settlement ranges. We have to talk to each other, because the states know… you know, each individual department of revenue knows what it’s doing with all different taxpayers.”- Leah Robinson [18:32]

“It’s a huge issue to pay, but the bigger issue is if you don’t pay, the interest becomes a whole other player in the analysis. And I have changed my story on this, right? I now advise companies for the most part to pay. ‘Let’s pay and seek a refund’ or in some jurisdictions if we’re litigating, we can pay and get an agreement with the state”- Leah Robinson [25:00]

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In the second episode of a two-part series, we continue our conversation with Richard Pomp, Professor at the University of Connecticut Law School and Adjunct Professor at NYU Law in the LLM program in tax, and Jordan Goodman, partner at HMB Legal Counsel. They share their thoughts on prominent tax cases and other state and local tax topics.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What are some recent tax decisions that they think are bad policy?

What You Will Discover:

[00:31] Tax decisions they think are bad policies
[06:48] Their thoughts on the Express Scripts case
[10:30] American Honda and Arkansas Supreme Court
[14:42] The current case regarding Sirius XM Radio in Texas
[18:34] How to impose sales tax through the B&H Photo case

Quotables:

“I’ve seen it where they use cost of goods sold because it doesn’t matter for fellow purposes. It’s just a deduction, but the state will jump on it, and the opposite in Texas. Unless you call it cost of goods sold, you don’t get it as cost of goods sold even if it is cost of goods sold.” - Jordan Goodman [08:02]
“I don’t care what piece of paper you give the store. What did you pay for out of your cash. That’s the only thing that matters.” - Richard Pomp [23:28]

Relevant Links:

Jordan Goodman on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordanmgoodman

HMB Legal Counsel: hmblaw.com

Richard Pomp: law.uconn.edu/person/richard-pomp

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In the first episode of a two-part series, we speak with Richard Pomp, Professor at the University of Connecticut Law School and Adjunct Professor at NYU Law in the LLM program in tax, and Jordan Goodman, partner at HMB Legal Counsel. Richard and Jordan tell the backstory of how their Top 10 list regarding state and local taxes came to be and how they determine what to discuss. They also share their thoughts on recent tax issues including the North Carolina tax case against quad graphics and public law 86-272.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How “The Big East Brawl” started and why they continue to banter with each other
How they determine what to talk about
Their thoughts and opinions on recent tax issues including North Carolina’s tax case against Quad Graphics and the MTC’s revised statement regarding Public Law 86-272

What You Will Discover:

[00:38] The origin story of “The Big East Brawl”
[04:52] How they determine what to talk about
[09:14] Their thoughts on North Carolina’s tax case against Quad Graphics
[17:42] Contingency and alternative fee arrangements
[20:14] Breaking down complex issues to the common man
[23:12] Their opinions on MTC’s revised statement for Public Law 86-272

Quotables:

“We go back and forth. Jordan puts together the outline. I always give him credit, and make it clear that all the mistakes are his.” - Richard Pomp [05:47]
“Part of Professor Pomp’s genius is the ability to break it down to everybody, right? To the reasonable person, common man, common woman, common person. That’s what his genius is is being able to take our complex, most complex stuff and say ‘Here’s how it is,’ and use general things found in a kitchen to explain it to a judge so they can understand it.” - Jordan Goodman [20:43]
“If the law doesn’t make sense anymore, you either got to expand it to include everybody or get rid of it from a policy perspective.” - Jordan Goodman [25:20]

Relevant Links:

Jordan Goodman on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jordanmgoodman

HMB Legal Counsel: hmblaw.com

Richard Pomp: law.uconn.edu/person/richard-pomp

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we continue our conversation with Brian Hamer, who serves as counsel at the Multistate Tax Commission, about the revisions made to the Statement of Information concerning practices of Public Law 86-272. In the second part of this two-part series, Brian addresses what these revisions have on states and taxpayers.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What questions are internet retailers asking about the new revisions? How does a taxpayer know what to apply?
What do states have to do to adopt the modernized revisions?
Does Brian think there will come a time when Public Law 86-272 will disappear?

What You Will Discover:

[00:24] How the updates applies to internet retailers
[04:24] How a taxpayer know what to apply
[08:05] Why the interest and application of Public Law 86-272 is more prevalent
[16:13] What the states do from here
[26:36] If there will come a time when Public Law 86-272 will go away

Quotables:

“It’s important to note that what the MTC has attempted to do here is not to engage in some policy making activity enterprise, but rather to attempt to apply the statute from 1959 to these modern business activities.” - Brian Hamer [03:32]
“I think this is something that we lose sight of. I think there’s perhaps traditionally been this notion that there is a physical presence requirement in the statute, but it just doesn’t exist, and as I say specifically, Congress rejected that approach.” - Brian Hamer [14:53]
“Believe this or not that the motivation for the Statement of Information and the recent revisions of the statement is really to benefit taxpayers. That the thought was that it was important for taxpayers to understand where states are coming from, because it’s all about notice here. Taxpayers should not be taken by surprise.” - Brian Hamer [17:13]
“If 86-272 is not the answer, what is the answer? And the answer frankly is that states need to enact a system of thresholds.” - Brian Hamer [25:52]

Relevant Links:

The Multistate Tax Commission: https://www.mtc.gov

Multistate Tax Commission with Helen Hecht: taxops.com/multistate-tax-commission-with-helen-hecht

Brian Hamber on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/brian-hamer-528b67b4

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In this episode, Stacey Roberts and Alexander Korzhen, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, share some best practices with handling your state and local payroll taxes.

What You Will Discover:

[00:52] The effects of a remote workforce
[02:20] Things to keep in mind with PEOs
[07:48] Reviewing employee mapping
[09:53] Some takeaways

Quotables:

“So what we’re seeing is obviously a lot more employees are now working from home and we have to reevaluate our payroll map, so to speak.” -Alexander Korzhen [02:01]
“I think long story short there, if a taxpayer is signing up with a payroll processor, just keep in mind that that’s their job.” -Stacey Roberts [06:54]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Brian Hamer, who serves as counsel at the Multistate Tax Commission, about the revisions made to the Statement of Information concerning the practices of Public Law 86-272. In this first part of a two-part series, Brian discusses the history of this law. He also explores the new changes and what it means to businesses and states in the future.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What was updated in the statute to address modern business activities?
Why is there such interest in this process?
What are some of the big revisions to the Statement of Information?

What You Will Discover:

[01:21] What was updated in the statute
[03:30] Some flaws in the statute
[06:36] The Statement of Information
[09:39] Some of the the big revisions
[12:50] The thinking behind the 11 scenarios

Quotables:

“But this whole process has been the subject of much attention. It’s really kind of a fascinating thing.” - Brian Hamer [08:54]
“I would say that the most consequential revision relates to how the statute applies to business activities conducted via the internet.” - Brian Hamer [10:18]
“The members of the work group were not required to explain their thinking, but there were a couple of themes that definitely came out over the course of the discussion, the kind of considerations that motivated the ultimate decision.” - Brian Hamer [13:43]

Relevant Links:

The Multistate Tax Commission: https://www.mtc.gov

Multistate Tax Commission with Helen Hecht: taxops.com/multistate-tax-commission-with-helen-hecht

Brian Hamber on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/brian-hamer-528b67b4

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In this episode, Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, and Jamie Overberg from TaxOps Minimization Group, talk about research and development tax credits, also known as R&D.

What You Will Discover:

[00:41] How TaxOps Minimization Group focuses on R&D
[01:45] Criteria for R&D credit
[03:23] Nuances of the state level
[08:29] Cloud costs
[10:31] Other states with increased audit activity
[12:55] This credit is for smaller companies too

Quotables:

“This credit is not just for big companies. It’s for smaller companies also, so you should try to get it.” -Jamie Overberg [15:02]

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In this episode, Alexander Korzhen and Tram Le from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, provide an overview of state taxation of cannabis. They explain how this taxation as an intrastate enterprise, meaning the product is licenced and sold in the state, will affect taxpayers.

What You Will Discover:

[00:26] Viewing from a state’s perspective
[02:29] State taxation of cannabis is an intrastate enterprise
[05:10] Exemptions to consider

Quotables:

“Understanding your role and understanding what types of taxes that you might be subject to in a given state is really hard to get your arms wrapped around.” -Tram Le [04:37]
“There’s a lot of consideration and a lot of detail from state to state.” -Alexander Korzhen [03:43]

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In this episode, Meredith Smith and Connie Zoerink from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, share some tips on how to prepare for an audit.

What You Will Discover:

[00:51] How helpful it is to have a pre-audit call
[02:15] What documents to submit
[03:30] Auditors are people too

Quotables:

“I’ve gotten to know being on the industry side for a while too, getting to know auditors that they’re human too, and they have families, and they have interests and hobbies outside of auditing. And sometimes they’re really pleasant people, but they can be less pleasant when they’re stuck in the darkest corner of the basement of the file room with the invoices from 1972 or whatever. ” -Connie Zoerink [03:53]
“You can put in the work at the beginning to hone in your information could really pay off dividends in the end. That concept of short-term sacrifice for long-term gain.” -Meredith Smith [05:00]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Craig Johnson, Executive Director of the Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board. Craig talks about what the board does and shares some of their accomplishments since 1999 with both participating and nonparticipating states.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What is Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board?
What are some of Streamlined’s major accomplishments?
Why aren’t the other 22 states registered with the board?

What You Will Discover:

[00:44] What is Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board
[02:48] Some of their major accomplishments
[07:40] Their central registration system for sellers
[13:22] Why other states don’t register to participate
[19:38] Creating uniform definitions using candy as an example
[29:13] The resolution to allow non-member states to participate
[35:47] Survey results from registered sellers
[41:34] What Craig is hopeful for the future

Quotables:

“We’ve made significant improvements and significant strides in making it easier for businesses.” - Craig Johnson [02:43]
“We didn’t really have, I don’t believe, a true appreciation for all the various nuances multi-state businesses face. We knew our laws inside and out. I knew our laws inside and out. Quite frankly, expected multi-state businesses to know them just as well, but while we’re focusing just on our laws, multi-state businesses, they're trying to do this and they’re focusing on every state’s laws that they’re operating in. And I think as part of our accomplishments, we now as states have a much better understanding and appreciate really for what multi-state businesses face and the challenges that they have.” - Craig Johnson [05:24]
“If you’re not in a Streamlined state and you’re going to make sales in any one of our member states, you can still register through Streamlined.” - Craig Johnson [13:11]
“We are trying very hard to walk that fine line of where does simplification or where does simplification in state sovereignty, where’s the ideal spot for them to meet?” - Craig Johnson [21:16]
“I want a business to focus on growing its business. I don’t want a business to focus on ‘I have to do my taxes. I have to calculate sales tax.’ Let somebody else do that.” - Craig Johnson [39:53]
“We have to listen to business. If we’re going to make things easier, we have to understand from the people that are actually doing the work on a day to day basis. What’s causing the problem? And then figure out what the response is and work with them, like ‘Ok, what do we see as a solution that works from both the states’ side and the seller’s side?’” - Craig Johnson [43:58]

Relevant Links:

Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board: streamlinedsalestax.org

Craig Johnson on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craig-johnson-97027b69

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In this episode, Judy Vorndran, Tram Le and Connie Zoerink from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, continue their conversation about the impact of Colorado’s Sales and Use Tax System (SUTS) and some of the issues for taxpayers to consider.

What You Will Discover:

[00:14] Accommodating and managing the risk
[03:18] How to navigate licenses
[07:24] Things to consider

Quotables:

“On audit, just remember that while SUTS is the new system, most of these cities have had auditors in place for many, many years, and they have a robust audit system. They can assess penalties and interest and they can go back as far back 10 years, I’ve seen 10+ years of information being audited.” -Connie Zoerink [02:32]
“They certainly have a right to enforce as far back as they want, so that is always a concern that taxpayers have.” -Judy Vorndran [03:13]
“You don’t want to get caught not collecting the right rate.” -Tram Le [08:39]

Relevant Links:

Simplify Colorado Sales Tax
Colorado Municipal League

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In this episode, Judy Vorndran, Tram Le and Connie Zoerink from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, talk about Colorado’s Sales and Use Tax System (SUTS) and some of the challenges and risks they are seeing with this system.

What You Will Discover:

[00:27] What is SUTS
[01:26] What is a home rule
[03:47] How it logically works
[04:40] Challenges and risks
[07:33] Risks with historic nexus

Quotables:

“We truly don’t know how it’s going to roll out, because not all cities are on SUTS. I think we have 17 out of the 71 cities that haven’t signed on or haven’t finalized their agreement to participate. So I think that can get pretty complicated at this point if there are taxpayers who are interested and ready to sign on and make it less complicated.” -Tram Le [04:40]
“It’s important to talk to an expert before you go out and register all these cities through SUTS and make you sure understand who the cities are and references.” -Judy Vorndran [06:38]
“If you register on SUTS using your perspective registration date going forward from today say, there could be a historic nexus issue, and so we’re just concerned that taxpayers may be audited or there may be some issues raised with that where there could be some big money involved with that.” -Connie Zoerink [08:03]

Relevant Links:

DR 1002 - Colorado Sales/Use Tax Rates
DR 0800 - Location/Jurisdiction Codes for Sales Tax Filing

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In this episode, Judy Vorndran and Stacey Roberts from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team share the types and trends in enforcement they are seeing as a result of the Wayfair case and other taxpayer considerations in this highly-charged area of tax.

What You Will Discover:

[00:29] What they are seeing with Post-Wayfair Enforcement
[02:17] Making sure you file what needs to be filed
[06:31] Possibly more enforcement as things reopening

Quotables:

“If you don’t collect (sales tax) and you have a duty to collect it, it’s on you and you can pass it to your customer, but it’s always on you.” - Judy Vorndran [02:23]
“(States) need money, so I think we’re going to start to see a little bit more enforcement occur.” - Stacey Roberts [06:45]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Carolynn Kranz, founder and managing member of Kranz & Associates, PLLC, and our own Judy Vorndran. Kranz & Associates is a Washington D.C. law firm that specializes in state and local tax. Carolynn shares her knowledge and perspective from her more than 20 years of experience in SALT to discuss digital taxation. She helps us understand what these taxes are and the impact they have on businesses.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How has the taxation of digital goods evolved and where are the states headed?
What is the history of this using Microsoft as an example?
How do we handle the advertising taxes? Why now? Why was Maryland first? Why is it being challenged?
How did she get into software and digital goods?
What piece of advice does she offer to businesses in this space?

What You Will Discover:

[00:49] The evolution of digital goods taxation
[03:18] The history behind this with Microsoft as an example
[10:37] Two things to keep in mind with Washington’s digital space
[13:11] Why the advertising taxes are being challenged
[21:19] Other things she comes across in situs space
[30:19] Reactivity vs proactivity
[35:17] How Carolynn got involved in software and digital goods
[44:10] The piece of advice Carolynn offers to businesses

Quotables:

“I think in this instance, the issue is that for years, all of these items really did have a form of a tangible equivalent, and therefore, they were part of a tax base. So we’re seeing an eroded tax base… Things that were historically taxed are no longer being taxed, and so the states still want that piece.” - Carolynn Kranz [03:30]
“The question is is how do you do that situs for that, right? Because Washington does want to look through the transactions. So if you’re selling a service to somebody and the benefit is derived, not necessarily by the customer, but the customer’s customer, right? They’re going to look through that and that gets tricky, because how much information you have or maintain as a seller gets tricky.” - Carolynn Kranz [11:34]
“It’s a slippery slope, right? It really is, which is why when I’m working with sellers, whatever method you’re going to use, use it consistently.” - Carolynn Kranz [27:08]
“In this space, what’s tricky is if you’re selling to consumers, right? You got to be careful, because there is still this risk of class action in the sales tax space. and unless you have some binding guidance from the state, and even if you have that binding guidance, it doesn’t mean that somebody’s not going to bring a challenge against you, so you need to do what you can to protect yourself, especially if you’re selling to end users to consumers that might have more of an appetite to click that button to participate in a class action.” - Carolynn Kranz [42:07]
“You really, like you say, have to understand how business gets done from the sales all the way down to the booking of it, and the invoicing process, the delivering mechanism.” - Judy Vorndran [43:34]
“It is never as bad as it seems, and so in mind, it sounds like a big task, but it really isn’t at the end of the day. It’s all about baby steps. Spend a little time upfront to understand where you have an obligation to collect. Then look at on a dollar threshold where are those big numbers down to your small numbers and start figuring out those jurisdictions, and you can address them pretty quickly in my opinion and get on top of it right from the beginning.” - Carolynn Kranz [46:23]

Relevant Links:

Carolynn Kranz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolynn-kranz-64267930

Kranz & Associates PLLC: https://saltattorneys.com

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In this episode, Judy Vorndran and Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, talk about what foreign entities or companies should keep in mind as they do business in the U.S. such as filing duties and nexus triggers that states can impose.

What You Will Discover:

[01:20] Why states don’t have to follow the U.S. treaties for income tax and sales tax
[03:37] How to comply when states request a copy of federal income tax return
[04:34] Other non-income based taxes don’t have treaty protection

Quotables:

“Just as a reminder, right, treaties are income tax only. And it’s maybe not quite half, maybe over a half of the states actually do not follow treaties, which might be a surprise.” - Stacey Roberts [03:20]
“You can never really count on looking at our federal government when you are deciding to do business in America and think you’re one and done. ‘There’s a treaty, and I have nothing else I have to do in America.’” - Judy Vorndran [06:27]

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In this episode, Judy Vorndran and Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, provide some things to think about with respect to nexus and what that means from a state and local tax perspective.

What You Will Discover:

[00:32] What is nexus and what taxpayers need to know
[02:46] What is affiliate nexus
[03:36] Stacey and Judy’s reactions to sales tax changes post-Wayfair
[07:22] Why the states can tax this

Quotables:

“From a state income tax perspective, those kind of economic nexus rules have been in place for years, and so I’m kind of not surprised that sales tax has finally caught up.” - Stacey Roberts [03:58]
“I think if you can send an invoice and get something to a customer out of your own state or out of your own country, why can’t you tax them?” - Judy Vorndran [07:34]

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Stacey Roberts and Connie Zoerink, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, wrap their mini-series on transaction taxes by discussing use tax. They explain how it differs from sales tax and its reporting and licensing requirements.

What You Will Discover:

[00:56] The difference between sales tax and use tax
[02:04] Reporting requirements for the purchaser
[04:08] Does shipping affect the tax rate
[07:11] Remediation options for noncompliance
[08:33] Licensing and reporting requirements

Quotables:

“This is a type of tax that maybe may not be top of mind for taxpayers out there, but definitely one that can maybe be a surprise unfortunately under audit where we tend to see that come in as a surprise, or inquires from the state.” - Stacey Roberts [00:19]
“A lot of times, the vendor will not charge tax. So if they did not charge tax on an item that’s actually taxable in your jurisdiction, then you need to accrue and self-remit the use tax to the jurisdiction.” - Connie Zoerink [01:29]

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Stacey Roberts and Connie Zoerink, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, continue their mini-series about transaction taxes with talk about unclaimed property. While unclaimed property is not a tax, it does fall into the state and local tax area.

What You Will Discover:

[00:47] What is unclaimed property
[01:50] Reporting requirements
[03:39] States can audit unclaimed property
[04:55] Reporting deadlines
[06:01] Where to go to find out if you have money owed to you

Quotables:

“Unclaimed property is actually not a tax, but it typically falls in the state and local tax area just because it’s something that is reportable or claimable from every state.” - Connie Zoerink [01:29]
“Like you said, it’s not a tax, but it’s a reporting that taxpayers really need to be aware of, and in some cases, this could be low-hanging fruit for some states.” - Stacey Roberts [04:42]

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In a mini-series about transaction taxes, Stacey Roberts and Connie Zoerink, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, talk about business personal property tax and share what taxpayers should consider and remember about this tax.

What You Will Discover:

[00:45] What is business personal property tax
[01:46] Assessment dates based on county
[02:12] If lease property counts
[02:43] Disclosure options
[04:12] Deadline for reporting

Quotables:

“I think something that I’ve seen over time that might trip up taxpayers is the fact that there are certain locations or jurisdictions where inventory is reportable, and I think that can be surprising.” - Stacey Roberts [03:49]
“Due dates are all over the board unfortunately for taxpayers, so you kind of have to be on top of all of that, but typically they’re anywhere from March to May timeframe.” - Connie Zoerink [04:20]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Helen Hecht, Uniformity Counsel at the Multistate Tax Commission (MTC), and our own Judy Vorndran. Helen provides insight into how the MTC works towards its mission and her role as uniformity counsel.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What is the progression of Helen’s career and how did she end up at the MTC?
Can you give a high-level overview of what the MTC is and its purpose?
What is she doing as uniformity counsel?
How are the states going to administer a digital tax on advertising?

What You Will Discover:

[00:47] The path that brought Helen to the MTC
[13:14] An overview of what the MTC is and its purpose
[20:58] Early success with states’ adoption of Uniform Division of Income for Tax Purposes Act (UDITPA)
[23:43] What she does as uniformity counsel
[31:08] Their approach to assimilate the laws
[33:54] How the states plan to administer a digital tax on advertising
[42:49] The new standards due to the Wayfair decision
[47:30] An unusual situation in which MTC has a solution
[51:28] Why Wayfair decision was great for state and local practitioners

Quotables:

“If I can say one thing to people starting out in this field, don’t discount working in government, because some of the work can be the most fun you’ll ever do.” - Helen Hecht [08:49]
“Technology is a huge tool for everybody. We would not be where we are today if it weren’t for the advances in technology.” - Helen Hecht [12:19]
“It’s interesting though. You’re organized and you have ideas, but you have no teeth, right? There’s no bite to your will to make people agree.” - Judy Vorndran [20:45]
“Sometimes you have to stop and say, ‘Quit trying to fit the square peg in the round hole, and let’s figure out if there’s a different way to do this. And why are we trying to do it?’” - Helen Hecht [37:14]
“Identify the right problem. YOu know, that’s what they always tell you when you’re trying to solve a problem. The most important thing is to make sure you identify the actual problem.” - Helen Hecht [41:24]

Relevant Links:

The Multistate Tax Commission: https://www.mtc.gov

Helen Hecht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helen-hecht-2406ab1a

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Meredith Smith, Tram Le and Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, talk about the changes associated with the PPP loans and franchise tax sourcing in Texas and how that might impact their clients.

What You Will Discover:

[00:48] How Texas is handling PPP loans
[02:55] What they have learned about some franchise tax sourcing
[04:29] How will these rules be implemented?

Quotables:

“I think the real big thing here is that the comptroller basically is revising the rules and clarifying what they really mean and how the receipts are being sourced, right? The big kicker here is that most of these changes are retroactively effective and most of these changes are going to be effective as of January 1, 2008.” - Tram Le [03:59]
“I think that this is either an opportunity for some taxpayers or it could actually cost some taxpayers some money, depending upon whether they’re in-state or out-of-state and applying the rules. And you also have to take into consideration that we’ve got a statute of limitations issue.” - Stacey Roberts [06:08]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Alexander Korzhen and Stacey Roberts, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, talk about the state of Maryland’s new digital advertising tax that is scheduled to go into effect in 2022. Alex and Stacey discuss what they know about this new tax so far and what it could mean for taxpayers.

What You Will Discover:

[00:30] What is this new tax
[04:37] The practitioner community’s response
[05:21] How it compares to international digital taxes
[07:36] Other states that have similar proposed legislation

Quotables:

“It’s startling in its vagueness, which is why it has received so much feedback and been surrounded in controversy. ” - Alexander Korzhen [00:49]
“That broad definition, I would imagine there’s a lot of taxpayers out there that could get caught up in it, and they may not necessarily know.” - Stacey Roberts [04:29]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Judy Vorndran and Alexander Korzhen, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, present the case to hire professional services from proactive tax advisors that can help you stay on top of tax issues. They share why it’s important to work with those that will act in your best interest and not sell you services that you don’t need.

What You Will Discover:

[00:22] Understanding state and local tax issues
[01:51] The importance in picking tax advisors
[06:29] How this proactive approach affects compliance
[11:05] Why Judy thinks you should pick a good provider

Quotables:

“Getting taxes wrong, maybe not immediately, but ultimately bites you in the rear end. And it’s typically an expensive bite, which is why we’re squeaking so loud and trying to help as many taxpayers as we can avoid that bite by being proactive.” - Alexander Korzhen [02:46]
“Something about our CPA community where we’re a little too general, but you’ve got audits. You’ve got tax. You got IT. You’ve got billing, AR, financial accounting. You’ve got GAAP. You’ve got tax. It’s not all the same animals, so it’s important to kind of acclimate to a group of providers that can really give you best practices in lots of different areas and that’s kind of what we do at TaxOps.” - Judy Vorndran [12:07]

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Judy Vorndran and Alexander Korzhen, from TaxOps’ SALTovation Team, talk about Chicago’s informational bulletin that defines economic nexus and safe harbor for businesses that conduct business in the Windy City.

What You Will Discover:

[00:29] Chicago’s Information Bulletin – Nexus and Safe Harbor
[03:06] The potential retroactive enforcement
[05:39] What the city will consider on a case by case basis for nexus
[08:35] Next point of analysis for Chicago: sourcing

Quotables:

“But the fact that it could have a retroactive effect on your registration, I think like you said it’s a trap, but it’s also what I think a lot of people misapprehend about registrations in general. They throw them out there. They fill them out. They get it done ‘cause they want to move forward. They don’t want to look at the past, but then what happens is the government can look at the past.” - Judy Vorndran [04:17]
“I think what we’re hearing is that the city has taken a reasonable approach to wanting to earn prospective taxpayers, right? So we don’t know yet how they’re going to enforce this, but the way that this is written seems like they can enforce it harshly. Whether they will chose to or not is not clear.” - Alexander Korzhen [06:32]

Relevant Links:

Chicago’s Information Bulletin – Nexus and Safe Harbor

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Ed Sealover, senior reporter for Denver Business Journal (DBJ), Laurel Witt, associate counsel with Colorado Municipal League (CML), and our very own Judy Vorndran. Ed and Laurel break down the what, why and how of Colorado's Sales and Use Tax System (SUTS) , which is a destination-based tax system as a result of the Wayfair decision. They discuss some of the issues they have seen from participating businesses and jurisdictions.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Ed become aware of the SUTS issues and what is he following now on behalf of the businesses?
Do businesses approach the Denver Business Journal as an outlet for their concerns?
What is the Colorado Municipal League’s role in general?
What does home rule mean?
What has CLM heard or done to address the reluctants within the jurisdictions and municipalities they represent?
What is Ed hearing from the business community on what they wished they knew more about?
Did Laurel see the increase in online buying from the pandemic incentivized governments and jurisdictions to come on board?
Is there a safe harbor with the SUTS that doesn’t go back on the business if a vendor messes your address up?
What are the top two priorities for CML in 2021?
What should we keep in mind or be aware of from a business perspective in relation to this sales tax shift?

What You Will Discover:

[01:55] How Ed became aware of the issues & what he’s following now
[07:33] Colorado Municipal League’s role
[09:57] What does home rule mean
[16:24] Concerns with the inability to integrate SUTS with own website
[22:20] What CML has done to address those reluctant
[30:46] The issues with business licenses
[36:20] What the business community wished they knew more about
[38:54] How the increase in online spending incentivized governments and jurisdictions
[42:47] A safe harbor system
[51:35] CML’s top two priorities in 2021
[53:20] What to keep in mind with the sales tax shift from a business perspective

Quotables:

“There’s a lot of concern that SUTS, while it’s wonderful for calculating and remitting taxes to the state, it’s not as useful unless you want to invest a decent amount of money hiring a contractor to interface SUTS with your website. It’s not as useful for interacting with your customers.” - Ed Sealover [17:17]
“SUTS is not a one size fits all solution, nor is it really honestly a solution if you’re a multistate vendor selling outside of the state of Colorado.” - Judy Vorndran [18:00]
“It is an issue that we have flagged and want to talk about again, because business licenses are something that I think are really problematic. Like there’s no way a business in Massachusetts cares about getting a business license in all the self-collecting home rules jurisdictions.” - Laurel Witt [31:57]
“SUTS and the pandemic all kind of happened around the same time… in March of last year, which was a little bit chaotic for all of us. But as cities start seeing money coming in through that way, they just started jumping on SUTS a lot faster.” - Laurel Witt [39:32]
“I think the question here is not completely how do we make sure that everyone complies. How do we make sure that compliance is not an overburdensome thing?” - Ed Sealover [54:19]

Relevant Links:

Ed Sealover on Twitter: @ESealoverDenBiz

Ed Sealover on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ed-sealover-71116416a/

Denver Business Journal: bizjournals.com/denver

Laurel Witt on Twitter: @COMuniLawyer

Laurel Witt on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/laurelwitt

Colorado Municipal League: cml.org

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To wrap up the “Meet the Team” series, hosts Meredith Smith and Alexander Korzhen speak with our very own Judy Vorndran in this episode of the SALTovation podcast. Judy talks about her more than 20 years of experience in public accounting. She shares how her mom contributed to her decision to pursue a business degree and how she carries her passion into her work. Judy also talks about her involvement with the Family Resource Center Association (FRCA) and why she loves to travel. Listen for Judy’s advice for women who are wanting to start or are starting their own business.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What was her first job? What did she want to be when she was younger?
What led her to pursue a business degree?
How does her daughter interpret Judy’s upbringing and college career?
How did she involved with the Family Resource Center Association (FRCA)?
How does she carry that passion into her work?
What advice would she give to women who are wanting to start or are starting their own business?

What You Will Discover:

[01:08] What was Judy’s first job?
[02:57] Why she pursued a business degree
[07:31] What she felt she learned as a parent
[14:25] How she leads her team
[21:12] Her involvement with FRCA
[26:59] How she carries her passion into work
[29:42] Some things she’s seen in accounting
[39:46] Judy’s advice for women starting a business
[45:43] Some fun facts about Judy

Quotables:

“When we took Josh and Nicole and I lost my cousin suddenly at 32, it just really changes the trajectory of how you feel. That life is short and you need to make it count. However that is for you.” - Judy Vorndran [10:11]
“I think that’s why we’re successful as a team because there’s this thing about who we are in our nature that makes us really effective at this work. And looking at those qualities in our team is why we’re together as a team, ‘cause we each have these things that cross pollinate but there’s this common passion around the work.” - Judy Vorndran [16:49]
“I think a lot of people really struggle with the complexity. I relish on the complexity. I physically feel so excited to listen to a client’s problem, and I can figure out how to help them. So somehow someway, I’m really good at that. I can see the forest through the trees.” - Judy Vorndran [28:41]
“You got to figure out how you let your light shine, right? And go after what you believe in.” - Judy Vorndran [42:40]
“You got to look around and think, ‘What is it that makes me happy?’” - Judy Vorndran [43:23]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://taxops.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judyvorndran

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, Alexander Korzhen takes over hosting duties as he speaks with Meredith Smith, state and local tax manager, and our very own Judy Vorndran. Recently celebrating her 10 year anniversary, Meredith is the most veteran person at TaxOps in state and local tax (SALT). She shares what changes she has seen at TaxOps as well as in the small and medium market. She also discusses how she balances her time between SALT and federal tax. Listen as she describes what success means to her and if she feels she has achieved it.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Meredith get from Illinois to Colorado?
How did she end up in state and local tax?
What does success mean to Meredith? Does she feel like she’s achieved it?
How has she seen the small/medium market change over the years? How has she seen TaxOps change over the years?
How does she balance her time between state and federal taxes?
What does she think helps her thrive in the details?
Is there anything professionally that surprises Meredith?

What You Will Discover:

[00:35] How Meredith end up in Colorado and
[02:42] Why she pursued state and local tax
[10:07] Why you should ask those dumb questions
[13:16] What success means to Meredith
[19:29] How she’s seen TaxOps and the small/medium market change over the years
[23:22] How Meredith splits her time between SALT and federal tax
[26:36] How she thrives in the details
[31:31] What surprises her professionally
[33:07] A few fun facts about Meredith

Quotables:

“I am like a blue blood state and local tax person.” - Meredith Smith [5:26]
“There are no dumb questions.” -Meredith Smith [11:43]
“We’re humans. We have ebbs and flows in life and careers and you know, just things. Just creating that safe space and just wanting to help people. ‘Cause that’s what someone in the very beginning took to do with me, and that’s what really kind of established how I view what I do in being a senior or a teacher in that capacity.” -Meredith Smith [12:30]
“When I left that environment and I came to like a smaller firm, my goal was to say ‘I know I work for a small firm, but you’re going to get something that you can’t find holes in.’ You can’t pick up a work paper that I’ve prepared and just say, ‘Oh, because they came from someone who works at a small firm, it’s going to be wrong.’” - Meredith Smith [17:03]
“Just because I’m so ingrained on one side and I’m so ingrained on the other, I can be that float.” - Meredith Smith [25:30]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://taxops.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-smith-047aa13

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Joe Geiger, Tax Consulting Manager at Vertex, Inc., and our very own Judy Vorndran. Joe has been with the company for over 15 years and has more than 25 years of experience with income, sales, use and other taxes, with particular expertise in tax appeals, audit controversies and reverse audits. Joe discusses business acquisitions and previews the upcoming event on April 8 with Judy and State and Local Tax Director Stacey Roberts about the sales and use tax implications. He also shares his thoughts on the future of sales tax automation.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Joe get his start at Vertex, Inc.?
What has kept Joe at Vertex, Inc.. all these years?
How does he think taxpayers perceive sales tax?
Has he seen a change with the type of consumer?
Has he seen an increase in inquiries since the Wayfair case?
What will be talked about at the upcoming event, Sales and Use Tax Implications of Business Acquisitions? Why is this an important topic to speak on? Who is the target audience?
Does Joe recieve work from companies that have bought another company?
Where does he think the future of sales tax automation is going? Does he think automation is going to replace people?

What You Will Discover:

[00:45] Joe’s career trajectory
[04:21] What has kept Joe at Vertex, Inc. all these years
[08:47] How he thinks taxpayers perceive sales tax
[10:28] If he’s seen a change in consumers
[14:26] More on the upcoming event on business acquisitions
[21:26] The challenges with acquiring other companies
[27:56] Joe’s thoughts on the future of sales tax automation
[34:02] If he thinks automation will replace people
[38:08] A few fun facts about Joe

Quotables:

“I think a lot of taxpayers truly don’t understand sales tax. I think they pretty much look at it. They get a bill. They see sales tax, the percentage and the amount. They don’t realize what is truly taxable all the time.” - Joe Geiger [08:55]
“Is it easier to start up a company or to acquire one? Or if you have a company say, ‘Hey, I’m pretty comfortable in my marketplace,’ sooner or later, you’re going to start losing market share, ‘cause other companies are going to pass you by. So you want to be on the forefront and be a leader as opposed to sitting on what you have and being happy.” - Joe Geiger [16:45]
“There’s a lot to think about with a merger and acquisition because there’s so many different things that could go wrong, and sometimes it’ll actually delay a deal or even kill a deal.” - Joe Geiger [19:56]
“I think automation will always be prominent in the marketplace.” - Joe Geiger [28:19]
“One thing with machine learning is the more information you feed into the system, the better answer you're going to get.” - Joe Geiger [36:11]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.vertexinc.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-geiger-8618bb17

Learn more and register for Sales and Use Tax Implications of Business Acquisitions: https://taxops.com/sales-and-use-tax-implications-of-business-acquisitions-cpe

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Erin Neer, founder and CEO of MUNIRevs, and our very own Judy Vorndran. Erin has worked in municipal finance for over 18 years. As a former finance director in Colorado, she realized that the way sales taxes were collected was archaic. Businesses were still sending in manually calculated paper coupons to remit their taxes, and the city staff then had to handle that mail, key in the data and make a deposit to the bank. So Erin created MUNIRevs in 2011 that works with communities to automate their business revenue collection.

Erin talks in this episode about how she founded MUNIRevs and how her product provides an easy platform for cities and taxpayers. She discusses what it's like to work with the state government and how MUNIRevs developed trust to garner more jurisdictions. Listen as she shares her advice on how to go all in after you see a need and go for it.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Erin get to where she is today?
What is MUNIRevs? Is the product as it is today what she was hoping it would become? Did it start out as something else?
What has it been like to work with the state to facilitate the ability to fund the cities and make it easier for cities and taxpayers?
Does Erin think having other jurisdictions use MUNIRevs help them get other jurisdictions to sign on to the platform?
What type of products do they provide?
How did they get Denver to choose MUNIRevs?
How is MUNIRevs working with Alaska?
How many developers do they have? Do they learn some basics of sales tax?
How do they keep up with the legislative changes?
How long did it take to get that initial launch? Who was the first jurisdiction to sign on?

What You Will Discover:

[00:48] Erin’s career trajectory
[04:39] What is MUNIRevs
[08:17] What it’s been like to work with state
[14:31] How they established themselves as the preferred resource
[16:14] The various systems
[17:27] How they got Denver on board
[20:55] Working with Alaska
[27:33] How flexible they have to be to
[27:33] The back end of MUNIRevs’ technology
[30:57] Keeping up with the legislative changes
[32:26] The initial launch and the first jurisdiction to sign on
[38:15] Erin’s advice to go all in
[42:17] A team to answer questions
[43:06] A few fun facts about Erin

Quotables:

“That’s where it’s grown. It’s just more modules and more needs because we listened to what our businesses and our clients needed us to build next.” - Erin Neer [08:11]
“Enforcement shouldn’t be a negative way to get tax out of vendors.” - Judy Vorndran [12:33]
“One of the biggest things that helps us make it happen is the way that we design the system from day one was to be nimble.” - Erin Neer [28:22]
“The conversation this year with COVID has been really interesting. You no longer have to explain the payment process and everything. It’s more commonplace today, but we have cities that are calling us because we are part of their COVID resiliency plan.” - Erin Neer [34:41]
“You need to know what you’re building if you’re going to go solve something.” - Erin Neer [38:52]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://munirevs.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/munirevs

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Maria Tringali, who is in new business sales at Avalara focusing on CertCapture and API integrations, and our very own Judy Vorndran. Maria talks about the benefits of technology and how it can meet the needs for businesses. She also discusses the problems she has seen with businesses in regards to technology and how she helps them adapt. Listen to what challenges she sees are coming for taxpayers in 2021.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Maria Tringali end up at Avalara?
What problems have Maria seen with businesses in regards to technology?
How does she help people overcome these problems?
How do you streamline automating exemptions certificates?
How do you reconcile old processes and new technologies?
How did she get success in getting companies to buy in the certificate product?
How do they respond to those who don’t want to register and be exposed to sales tax?
What challenges does Maria see for taxpayers in 2021?

What You Will Discover:

[00:44] How Maria Tringali end up at Avalara
[02:49] The technology problems Maria has seen business struggle with
[05:42] Who she is talking to in the organization to get the information
[11:48] How they use software to help facilitate exemptions
[14:34] How to streamline automating exemptions certificates
[19:43] One advantage of CertCapture
[24:17] How to reconcile old processes and new technologies
[26:47] How she got businesses to buy into the certificate product
[34:33] How they respond to people who don’t want to register
[37:37] The effects of the Wayfair decision
[40:11] The challenges Maria sees for taxpayers in 2021
[47:18] Some fun facts about Maria

Quotables:

“Another thing that we get is that people only want to automate part. They don’t want to automate everything. They only want help with this one little thing that’s bugging them and so it’s our job as salespeople and consultants and also as CPAs to say ‘but we need to look at the whole umbrella here.’” - Maria Tringali [05:07]
“What I want to get the sales people to realize is it’s all money to the business, which is all money to share to make the business better, to be more successful.” - Judy Vorndran [20:54]
“In general, automation is not going to be so strict that you won’t be able to also leverage some of your favorite, or whatever, workarounds or unique situations that you need to.” - Maria Tringali [25:39]
“I think that’s where the stress is, right? Can we actually do this ourselves or are we out of our knowledge? Can my credit manager actually know how to do this and have the time to do this?” - Maria Tringali [29:03]
“To me, I would mitigate risk by filing, doing it correctly as fast as you can. Never going to get 100%, but you can get close, and then you can just sleep at night.” - Judy Vorndran [34:54]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.avalara.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matringali/

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Jared Walczak, Vice-President of State Projects at the Tax Foundation, and our very own Judy Vorndran. Jared talks about his work with the Tax Foundation, a non-profit, independent tax policy organization. He shares how he came into his role there and how he works with legislation about tax issues in a nonpartisan way. Listen as he shares what he sees will happen with tax policies as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Jared make his way to the Tax Foundation?
What does he focus on at the Tax Foundation?
Where does the Tax Foundation gather their data for analysis?
How are they structured to cover all 50 states?
How does he see states changing tax policies due to the effects of COVID-19 pandemic?
What does he enjoy the most in his job?

What You Will Discover:

[01:00] How Jared joined the Tax Foundation and his first job in legislature
[03:08] Where he focuses his efforts and energy at the Tax Foundation
[04:41] An overview of the organization’s state tax team
[06:58] Where Tax Foundation gathers their data for analysis
[15:45] What is the Colorado Sales And Use Tax Simplification Task Force
[19:32] How the Tax Foundation strays from advocacy
[26:47] Jared’s “I told you so” moment
[31:32] How Judy learned about the Tax Foundation
[31:17] The Tax Foundation’s publications
[33:24] How state taxes vary and other tax issues
[42:26] How state tax policies can change due to the COVID-19 pandemic
[50:27] What Jared enjoys the most about his job

Quotables:

“We’re a small team. I’d like to think that ” - Jared Walczak [05:02]
“State lawmakers, they’re smart people, but they can’t all be experts on every issue. In many cases, they’re part-time. They honestly usually do not have significant full-time staff or if they do, it’s like a legislative assistant. I’ve been one. It’s not a huge policy research team that they have access to, so there’s this enormous need for serious but also digestible research and analysis, and I think it makes a huge difference. And we can provide that.” - Jared Walczak [14:07]
“I think that we have found the right approach. We do education.” - Jared Walczak [20:20]
“I found the Tax Foundation's maps, and I’ve been relying on them ever since, because it’s a way to see that snapshot of America and all the bits and pieces that you guys share.” - Judy Vorndran [31:57]
“We have a relationship with lawmakers that I think sets us apart from a lot of other organizations.” - Jared Walczak [50:49]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://taxfoundation.org/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredwalczak/

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Stacey Roberts, State and Local Tax Director, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Stacey talks about what she’s learned working in Chicago, the Pacific Northwest and Denver. She also shares how she connects with her clients to create a good working relationship.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What did Stacey learn working for markets in Chicago, the Pacific Northwest and Denver?
How has Stacey grounded and connected to her clients?
Who has been the most influential person in her career?

What You Will Discover:

[00:38] What Stacey learned working in the Chicago market
[08:01] What she learned working in the Pacific Northwest
[21:40] How she transitioned working with the Denver team
[26:50] What drives her to be a great practitioner
[28:37] How she created a good working relationship with a client
[34:49] Who is the most influential person in her career
[39:52] One thing we don’t know about Stacey
[42:09] Random facts about Stacey

Quotables:

“I would say, like I said earlier, that for me, moving into the smaller markets forced me to become more of a generalist and learn sales tax which has been invaluable to me over time.” - Stacey Roberts [07:48]
“One of the things that I try to do is have empathy for our clients, right? No matter who they are, and just like you said, I do try to listen.” - Stacey Roberts [27:39]
“I just think that just from human nature, people want to be heard and they should be heard.” - Stacey Roberts [33:33]
“I hire people that I want to invest in.” - Judy Vorndran [36:16]
“Well Judy, that’s what you’ve always said that people matter. Like whether it’s our clients, our staff and life outside of work and tax and whatnot. That people matter and it’s true.” - Meredith Smith [36:37]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.saltovation.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacey-roberts-90072b5

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Tram Le, a CPA, attorney and SALT professor, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Tram talks about pursuing her career in accounting and law after shifting from music. She also shares what she sees teaching SALT topics to graduate students as an adjunct assistant professor at the University of Texas in Arlington. She also discusses what she thinks makes clients want to work with her.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What is Tram Le’s background and career story?
How does she think the SALT class she teaches relates to the classes she took in college?
What is the biggest misconception about state tax that she finds within the students?
What does Tram offer that makes clients want to work with her?
Where did UT Arlington find the value in offering a SALT class?
What drives and motivates Tram to do her best work each day?

What You Will Discover:

[00:52] How Tram shifted from pursuing music to accounting and law
[07:07] Taking the SALT class and meeting Judy
[11:18] How the SALT classes she teaches compare to the classes she took as a student
[17:10] The biggest misconception about state tax within her students
[22:47] What makes clients want to work with Tram
[28:28] Why does she think UT Arlington offers a SALT class
[30:14] What drives and motivates Tram
[31:43] One thing we don’t know about Tram and more fun facts

Quotables:

“Being in the top of a class doesn’t necessarily mean success.” - Judy Vorndran [09:15]
“This is not just a simple job. It’s complicated and it requires nuance. And it requires the ability to take the complicated issues, make them simple for our clients so they understand how to handle it, but also deal with the nuance, so that we give them the right answer.” - Judy Vorndran [16:09]
“Just understanding that it does matter how you file.” - Tram Le [18:14]
“When I am helping a client or advising, I put myself in their shoes, and what would I do if I had these problems?” - Tram Le [23:52]
“If there’s something I’m doing, I have to do it right, and I don’t want to let you guys down. I don’t want to let clients down. I don’t want to let myself down. And also, I think a big part of me as a mother of two young girls, I want to be a really good role model for them.” - Tram Le [30:48]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.saltovation.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tram-le-88573752

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Dena Oberst, President and CEO of Gable Tax Group, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Dena talks about pursuing her career goals in the area of taxation and how over 25 years of experience in sales tax compliance and automation has brought her to launch her own use tax consulting group.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What brought Dena to start Gable Tax Group?
Why did a recruiter foresee that Dena would be incredibly marketable in a two year time?
How did she build to scale after the Wayfair case?
Is Dena glad that she started her own business?

What You Will Discover:

[1:04] How an education to become an accountant was met with the reality of working in the sales tax department
[2:06] How did she divert from private industry to public accounting as an experienced consultant
[5:24] How she became a sales tax compliance and automation practice leader at Jefferson Wells
[6:01] How getting breast cancer prompted her to leave the sales tax department for True Partners Consulting
[8:02] How she took the leap to start Gable Tax Group
[13:31] How being a people person was integral to the success of her business
[14:46] How Gable Tax Group is different from other consulting service providers
[22:12] The complexity of sales and income tax
[28:26] How Dena’s work aligns with SALT
[30:10] How the Wayfair case was pivotal to Gable Tax Group
[32:07] How to adopt a work methodology that focuses on people, process and technology
[38:43] How starting a business has been for Dena

Quotables:

“We use technology of course, but we do use human common sense.” – Dena Oberst

[16:05]

“Measurement drives behavior.” – Dena Oberst [18:54]

“It’s really about the people, the talent, the process, and of course, you have to use technology.” – Dena Oberst [34:12]

“People, process, and technology.” - Dena Oberst [32:10]

“Try to seek abundance instead of negative thinking.” Judy Vorndran [34:10]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.saltovation.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dena-oberst/

Gable Tax Group: https://www.gabletaxgroup.com/

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This is the first episode of the SALTovation podcast series, Meet the Team, where we will be talking to members of the state tax group. In this episode, we speak with Alexander Korzhen, a tax manager, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Alex talks about how he pursued his career in taxation and how he landed at SALT. He also discusses how connections play an important role in his work and how he connects with his clients.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

Why did he choose to pursue taxation with his background in accounting finance and law?
How does he build connections with his clients?
How did he land at SALT?

What You Will Discover:

[00:59] How Alexander Korzhen ended in Minnesota
[03:11] Why he pursued accounting finance and law
[06:26] How he fell into taxation
[10:06] How he connects with his clients
[16:21] What gets him excited about work
[19:01] How he landed at SALT
[22:15] What other things he participates in
[26:01] One thing we don’t know about him
[28:16] Random fact about Alex

Quotables:

“It’s really not what you’re doing, but who you’re doing it with.” - Alexander Korzhen [07:22]
“If you have a connection, if you have rapport, things kind of seem to fall into place.” - Alexander Korzhen [07:31]
“I think early in my career, I was so focused on what are the rules? What do we legally have to do? What do you legally have to do? That was the approach I took with my clients. Well the law says… Well that only gets your halfway there, right? I think infusing with the practical aspect is where the real value comes in.” - Alexander Korzhen [12:06]
“I think SALT is well-suited to people who like solving puzzles.” - Alexander Korzhen [16:56]
“It’s nice to have those networking connections, right? But that’s all you’re really kind of missing in person, I think, because the content, if it’s delivered well, can be almost more efficient.” - Judy Vorndran [24:32]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.saltovation.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-korzhen-10905318/

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Joni Johnson-Powe, from DuCharme, McMillen & Associates, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Joni is the Vice President of DMA’s tax technology consulting division and is also a multi-degreed lawyer, a CPA and an IT specialist. She talks about owning her own businesses and what were the biggest lessons she learned from her first company. She also discusses how she feels her roles as a mom, a leader and a business owner has helped her control her narrative in the workforce.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Joni’s educational background influence her career choices and specialties?
Why did she pursue a law as a CPA?
How does Joni feel about being a mom, a leader and a business owner has impacted her?

What You Will Discover:

[00:59] How Joni utilized her education
[06:15] Why she went to law school as a CPA
[10:01] The evolution of software and technology for tax use
[16:58] Why she started her own business
[22:16] How her family life helps pivot her career path
[29:53] How Joni’s many hats helped her control the narrative and how things haven’t changed much in public accounting
[40:32] How Joni thinks working from home due to COVID-19 pandemic has benefitted parents
[46:06] Michelle’s last takeaway
[52:46] Outro

Quotables:

“When you're an accountant, it’s A+B=C. When you’re a lawyer, it’s like A+B=CDEFG.” - Joni Johnson-Powe [02:04]
“Business is not set it and forget it.” - Judy Vorndran [13:20]
“It was just a lot of things that you don’t know. You’re starry eyed. You’re ambitious. You want to go out, but you don’t realize all the sacrifices that you really have to make as a business owner. - Joni Johnson-Powe [24:59]
“There aren’t people like us, so we have to connect with one another to support each other, because we’re going through similar things as business owners, as women, as mothers, as wives, as friends.” - Judy Vorndran [33:44]
“And I really do feel like all of the obstacles that we go through in life build us to be a better person tomorrow.” - Joni Johnson-Powe [47:29]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://dmainc.com/

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Michelle Bush, from Silverstein & Pomerantz, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Michelle talks about her career handling tax matters on behalf of the city and then her later switch on behalf of the taxpayers . Listen to her multiple perspectives of challenging tax law in the court system.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

Why did she switch sides from representing the city to representing taxpayers?
What are Michelle thoughts on overreaching enforcement?
Was there a lack of trust from the cities for the state to collect their dues?
Why doesn’t Denver have clearer boundary lines?
What are Michelle’s opinions on the Sales & Use Tax System (SUTS) system?
What case had the biggest impact on Michelle on the way she thinks about tax and the application of the law?
How do you put together a compelling story for litigation?
What does Michelle foresee in future litigations?

What You Will Discover:

[01:29] The progression of Michelle’s career
[05:03] Why she shifted from representing the city to taxpayers
[06:34] How she adjusted to Colorado's complicated state tax system
[08:59] The balancing act on enforcing the tax law
[14:40] If Michelle felt any distrust between the City of Denver and the state of Colorado
[19:35] Issues with Colorado’s boundary lines
[21:15] Michelle’s opinions of the SUTS system
[27:38] What Michelle tries to remember in every piece of litigation
[31:40] How to put together a compelling story
[35:56] How the COVID-19 pandemic could play in future litigations
[37:37] Other litigations Michelle foresees in the future

Quotables:

“Wherever I worked, it was the right thing at the time.” - Michelle Bush [05:30]
“Just because no one is challenging it doesn’t mean it’s the right application. Doesn’t mean it’s the wrong application.” - Michelle Bush [10:21]
“Putting myself in the shoes of our clients, any time you can remove a barrier to compliance, I think that’s a good thing.” - Michelle Bush [22:10]
“But use tax is almost like when you say use tax, people think that… they look at you and say `I know the words you are using are in the English language, but I don’t know what that means.’” - Michelle Bush [26:28]
“There’s always a story to be told.” - Michelle Bush [28:57]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.sptaxlaw.com/our-people/michelle-bush/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-bush-ba10b01a/

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Walking through non-US taxation with Brian Schwam

In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Brian Schwam, from WTP Advisors, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Brian walks through some nuisances on non-US taxation from the knowledge he’s gained in his over 30 years of experience with international taxation. Listen to how this type of taxation overlaps with state tax.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Brian come to focus on international tax?
What brought him to WTP?
What factors cause a foreign corporation to have a tax presence in the US?
How are non-US businesses generating income from the states?
What are the penalties for non-US businesses that are not paying sales tax?
What is the outbound for a US-based business with foreign operations?
What is the one most important thing Brian wants people to know about what he does?

What You Will Discover:

[00:51] How Brian carved out his career in a niche area of taxation
[05:44] What factors subject a foreign corporation to US tax
[07:40] How non-US businesses bring in revenue from the states
[09:26] Why foreign manufacturers have plants in America
[15:33] How treaties play into taxation
[20:25] What are the consequences if a business doesn’t pay its sales tax
[27:00] What forms a US-based business with foreign operations need to complete
[37:49] What is the one thing Brian wants people to know about what he does
[39:16] Outro

Quotables:

“There’s a lot of labor-related taxes in a lot of foreign countries that we don’t have here.” - Brian Schwam [13:20]
“And this whole concept on who we have treaties and who we don’t have treaties with, right? Where we play nice in the sandbox with some other countries and we don’t play so nice with others.” - Judy Vorndran [15:30]
“One of them is the streamlined compliance filing. If you go back and file three years and pay interest in tax, they waive the penalties. Or if you have a situation where you don’t have any reported income, but you didn’t file these forms for whatever reason, as long as it wasn’t willful, then you can go back six years and all the penalties will be waived forever. If you don’t do anything, which is always one of the options, the statues never run, the penalties never go away and they just keep adding up. As soon as you're compliant once, it kind of alerts the IRS that you should have been compliant all along, so that’s why these programs are important. We like to have our clients use them to get clean, if you will.” - Brian Schwam [33:03]
“We’re also in the business of helping people optimize and maximize their opportunities, and I think if a business isn’t getting the proper advice, it’s like walking through a minefield. We try to help people avoid the landmines.” - Brian Schwam [38:41]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://wtpadvisors.com/brian-schwam.php

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-schwam-b6026a3/

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Nikki Dobay, Senior Tax Counsel for Council of State Taxation (COST), and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Nikki uses her expertise to explain how COST plays into the tax conversations and the inner workings of the state tax brain trust. She also discusses how COST decides what issues they focus on. Listen to how she explains how the Multistate Tax Commission (MTC) was formed and why smaller businesses should get involved in the MTC.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Nikki shift from public accounting to COST and back to a law firm?
What role does COST play in the tax conversation?
Where does COST focus their efforts?
How can small sellers get involved in the MTC?

What You Will Discover:

[01:14] How Nikki navigated her career
[09:26] What role does COST play in the tax conversation
[20:13] How does COST decide what they get involved in
[24:29] How Nikki thinks of the Oregon Corporate Activity Tax
[28:53] How to determine state nexus
[35:37] What is some advice for small sellers to get involved in the MTC?
[42:39] Outro

Quotables:

“Somebody did tell me early on when I was very nervous because I had to testify about unclaimed property, which I know nothing about. And the person just said ‘I guarantee you even if you know almost nothing, you know more than they know. Just walk in there. You’re the smartest person in the room on this and just say whatever you think will help.” - Nikki Dobay [05:07]
“What I have come to see going from the biggest firm in the world into a regional firm was how much that vote gets missed for the little guys. And the big guys can afford to pay someone like you. They can afford to hire someone internally as a lobbyist.” - Judy Vorndran [17:02]
“It just seems like the state shouldn’t be able to dictate what the federal law says. It’s not their job to interpret this federal law and whether or not it applies.” - Nikki Dobay [34:15]
“I think it’s a voice that really gets lost and the states don’t hear about it. They don’t think about it and they don’t understand that these decisions are having significant impacts on small businesses and mid-size businesses that are really just trying to make it and you’re going to crush them with state tax compliance for what reason.” - Nikki Dobay [36:12]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.cost.org/about-cost/staff/nikki-e.-dobay

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikki-e-dobay-10a018a

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Janette Lohman, who is an industry leader with state and local tax, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Janette shares her story of practicing law in various areas in the industry for over 30 years. She also shares why it’s important to continue to nurture her connections in this collaborative industry and why people want to be on her famous cookie list.

Listen to how to be resourceful and quick to adapt when tackling an issue for your client.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

How did Janette initially get in state and local tax and what opportunities opened up for her as a result of progressing through her career?
Is it a conflict of interest to work at an accounting firm rather than a law firm?
Why do we think it’s a clerical, unimportant thing to have someone help with sales tax revenue?
What can a community of state and local tax professionals do to carry the momentum to make us better?

What You Will Discover:

[01:33] Janette shares how she started her 30-year long career with state and local tax
[09:27] What were the hardest two years of her life
[10:04] What is the origin of her famous cookie list
[15:31] How the relationships in SALT matter in the industry
[21:32] What is the most important thing Janette learned from being Director of Revenue
[22:59] Why it’s better to work out the issues at the audit level
[28:54] Why it’s important to adapt in the business
[36:46] How Janette helps people that were affected by COVID-19

Quotables:

“I think that state and local tax is probably the best kept secret in all of the world, let alone the tax, because it’s different. It’s varied. It’s wild.” - Janette Lohman [03:48]
“If you’re in a situation where you have no business of your own, your best source of business is your other partners.” - Janette Lohman [09:49]
“The only trick to selling business is that it’s what can you do for them and who are your clients and what are their needs, not your needs. Your needs are totally irrelevant.” - Janette Lohman [12:24]
“If it’s in your own best interest because I guarantee you, you need to go up the system level by level without offending anyone along the way because if you want to get something resolved successfully, you have to work through the system.” - Janette Lohman [22:29]
“We have no competitors in this industry. We have only colleagues.” - Janette Lohman [28:20]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.thompsoncoburn.com/people/janette-lohman

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janette-lohman-359548

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we are joined by Judy Vorndran and Scott Peterson. Scott is the current Vice President of U.S. Tax Policy and Government Relations at Avalara. Prior to Avalara, he was the first Executive Director of the Streamlined Sales Tax Governing Board - an organization devoted to making sales tax simpler and more uniform for the benefit of business. Scott also spent 10 years as the Director of the South Dakota Sales Tax Division and 12 years providing research and legal writing for the South Dakota legislature.

Scott shares how his career in sales tax started by accident but ended up loving it and has dedicated his life to bringing industry change. Judy explains the importance of hiring lawyers who understand sales tax and policy at the same time to represent you as a business.

Listen in to understand why some states are not members of Streamline due to lack of uniformity in state and local tax.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What has your career been like in private practice and what made you stay away?
Is there something strategic within South Dakota state that was chosen to carry the supreme case forward?
What led you to be the executive director of Streamline Sales Tax Governing Board and what does streamline mean for everyone?
How did working at Avalara come about and what are you doing there?

What You Will Discover:

[1:09] He describes his career in tax as an accident caused by unemployment during a recession and having to take what was on the table.
[8:12] The attributes to look for when hiring people who fully understand sales tax.
[16:09] How not to be in the uncertainty of potential liability especially for public companies.
[18:04] The amount of business that is happening in South Dakota which is why it has much bearing when it comes to the sales tax world.
[20:52] Judy explains why there’s a Wayfair in Colorado state.
[25:20] Scott describes how Streamline was a change environment for him- they applied change to make life better for everyone.
[29:16] Why some states are not members of Streamline- the challenge of state and local tax having to be identical.
[36:43] How big companies promoting SST uniformity did not care about certified service providers- how Avalara tackles the issue of government-imposed tax.
[43:37] How automation or software is connected with transactions and taxes in general.

Quotables:

“If you don’t have the financial acumens, it’s really hard to understand sales tax because you have to understand the policy and then you have to put the numbers on the forms.”- Judy [13:56]
“We were making changes to make life better.”- Scott Peterson [26:40]
“It’s easy to automate a yes with a no if you have all the staff behind it, what’s complicated is selling it because you have to be sold with something else.”- Scott Peterson [44:00]

Relevant Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-peterson-9170b8a/

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we speak with Diane Yetter, founder of Sales Tax Institute, and our very own Judy Vorndran.

Diane shares her journey in sales tax that spans over 35 years and the lessons she has learned throughout this period. She also shares the importance of understanding business processes when working in sales tax.

Listen in to learn the importance of tax compliance which will cost you less than getting caught when evading.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

Why is Diane good at what she does?
Why has she decided after 35 years to stay in state and local tax?
How do you think people come to see the value and the importance of sales tax piece?
To what do you attribute that continuous ability to serve the community in adding new students?
Are there any concepts that you see class after class your attendees struggle with?

What You Will Discover:

[1:25] Diane shares her 35-year long career in sales and use tax where she was employed before starting her own consulting practice
[2:46] How Diane learned to understand the business processes of sales tax
[7:27] The opportunity that exists in sales tax for young people and the challenges that it possesses
[11:43] How Diane takes her clients through the process of sales tax in their businesses
[14:50] Why you’re more likely to be caught with tax offense if you’re a B2B company than a B2C company
[18:41] Diane explains how they used to catch companies that were evading tax back in the 1980s
[25:49] The importance of making learning a lifelong process when working in the sales tax field
[28:34] Diane explains the difficulty of nexus, drop shipping, and taxation of digital goods topics with her students

Quotables:

“If what you sell is taxable, every mistake, every order that goes out that doesn’t have tax on it correctly, you’ve just lost 9-10% of your gross sales price.” - Diane Yetter [12:30]
“Businesses really want to do what’s right but there’s always going to be some bad apples out there that are going to be evaders of tax and do things illegally.” - Diane Yetter [26:15]
“If you’re going to work in this field, it is a lifelong learning opportunity.” - Diane Yetter [28:10]
“Sales tax should not control the business but business decisions should take into account all costs associated with that.” - Diane Yetter [32:58]

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.salestaxinstitute.com/faculty/diane-l-yetter

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianeyetter/

Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended, nor should it be relied upon, as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. You should consult with a competent professional to discuss specifics of your situation and the applicability of the information presented.

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In this episode of the SALTovation podcast, we are joined by Judy Vorndran and Bruce Nelson. Bruce has dealt with adversarial relationships for 40 years and is now an instructor for the AICPA and CSCPA and the Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of State Taxation.

Bruce talks about why the relationships between taxpayers and the department of revenues keep on deteriorating on so many levels. He shares the factors that have contributed to worsening these relationships and the role each of the parties has played.

Listen in to learn how you should handle your taxes as a business owner and the responsibility you have to ensure you’re complying.

Questions asked and answered in this Episode:

What are the issues that come together to create the environment leading up to the Quail decision in 1992?
Was the Quail case a huge blow to the states?
Does Bruce think good tax policy and good tax law are just more of the same?
Will Wayfair change relationships between taxpayers and departments of revenues for the better as opposed to Quail?
What should business owners be expecting since there are fewer taxpayers’ victories in tax law nowadays?
Why do we need the marketplace? Who is the market place?

What You Will Discover:

[2:29] The issues that have changed the relationships between taxpayers and tax administrators and legislators to become more divisive.
[7:34] How technological transitioning has changed the tax world which has broken the relationship between auditors and taxpayers.
[10:22] Ways in which Quail was a huge setback for states.
[14:57] Why tax policy and tax law need funds. Things that do not make sense from a conducting business perspective that impact taxpayers’ duties across the country.
[22:34] Bruce explains why relationships between taxpayers and state department of tax are only going to get worse due to COVID even after Wayfair.
[29:35] How business owners should handle their tax planning and audits to avoid tax cases.
[35:38] Why things are going to get interesting in the coming years with business and their taxes.

Quotables:

“You can’t just train to an audit, you have to understand business as a whole.” -Bruce Nelson [9:46]
“There’s a lot of things that don’t make sense from a doing business perspective that impacts taxpayers’ duties across our land.” - Judy Vorndran [21:35]
“I think it’s going to get worse; it’s going to get uglier, and I don’t see any solution to that.” -Bruce Nelson [28:44]
“Taxpayers and attorneys and accountants, we have our share of the blame here too that makes the situation worse.” -Bruce Nelson [34:11]

Relevant Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-nelson-2a434064/

Disclaimer:

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In this premiere episode of the SALTovation show, get to know some of the SALTovation members. They share their years of experience, when and how they joined TaxOps, and why they enjoy doing what they do.

Listen to hear answers to questions from both business and non-business owners about tax that are very useful.

Questions asked and answered in Episode 1:

What do we need to do to comply with SALT? Why does this matter, and why should we care?
What are the potential consequences of not understanding complex state and local laws across the U.S.?
I've told my employer multiple times over that I'm not a tax expert, but as we get these nexus questionnaires daily, they all come to me. How do I get people to stop expecting me to know about state taxes, just because I'm a CPA?
I travel to various states to train adults for a few days or to help solve a problem. Does distributing goods in a state during this period while the retailer pays the sales tax, create nexus?
Is Square a marketplace?

What You Will Discover:

[0:20] Tram Le is a member of SALTovation and has over 10 years of working in the state and local tax. She shares her journey in the tax sector, and why she enjoys working at SALT.
[1:40] Judy Vorndran is the head of the state and local tax practice and has been practicing for 25 years. She shares her journey in the tax sector, and the transition she has seen in her 25 years of practice.
[3:45] Alexander Korzhen has worked in the state and local tax for 15 years. He admits he’s had an interesting 15 years in the tax sector and is looking forward to the future.
[4:32] Stacey Roberts is a member of the SALTovation team and has 24 years of experience in the state and local tax. She shares her journey from the federal tax compliant to SALT which she found way more interesting.
[6:44] Judy explains why you need to understand the layers of the state and local taxes blueprint whether as a small or large business. Why it is critical to comply with tax.
[14:26] Stacy addresses the assumption that all CPAs know about local and state tax. Look where you can add value to your client as a CPA.
[17:48] The effects of crises in the tax sector and how the state governments are going to enforce laws post COVID-19.
[22:09] How to understand Nexus when traveling for business from state to state.
[26:27] Judy elaborates whether Square is a marketplace, how to handle sales tax, and the laws that handle these marketplaces.

Quotables:

“SALT is navigating the gray area that exists when laws are not written specifically to business and are not keeping track with business.” -Alexander Korzhen
“There are layers upon layers of taxes across our nation that apply to each and every business.” -Judy Vorndran
“You might very well have to eat the tax you didn’t collect from your end-users.” -Judy Vorndran
“A nexus questionnaire is really a fishing expedition from a state.” -Stacey Roberts

Relevant Links:

Website: https://www.saltovation.com/

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SALTovation: Making Sense of State and Local Tax: Recent Episodes

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