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John welcomes Danya Jimenez & Hannah McMechan, the writing team behind KPop Demon Hunters, to chart their path from film school to first feature.

They look at navigating early career difficulties like finding your voice and trying to get reps, their method of building a writing partnership, and how a bad pitch led them to writing one of the biggest movies of the year.

We also follow up on breaking in later in life and writing with ADHD.

In our bonus segment for premium members, what does Hollywood get wrong about Gen Z? Danya and Hannah share what drives them crazy about how their generation is portrayed on screen.

Links:

• Danya Jimenez and Hannah McMechan
• KPop Demon Hunters on Netflix
• No Strings Attached
• The Black List x Women in Film Episodic Lab
• Nicole Perlman on Scriptnotes, episodes 164, 222, 373, 381
• Brick
• Pluribus on Apple TV
• Claire Saffitz makes Dirt Bombs
• The Parade’s Gone By by Kevin Brownlow
• Manhunt by Gretchen Felker-Martin
• Chernobyl on HBO Max
• Chappell Roan – Love Me Anyway
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription (now with fewer emails!)
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by James Llonch (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The post Your First Produced Film first appeared on John August.

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The original post for this episode can be found here.

John August: Hey, this is John. Standard warning for people who are in the car with their kids: there’s some swearing in this episode.

[music]

John: Hello, and welcome. My name is John August.

Craig Mazin: My name is Craig Mazin.

John: You’re listening to Episode 712 of Scriptnotes. It’s a podcast about screenwriting and things that are interesting to screenwriters. Today on the show, we welcome back one of our favorite guests and guest hosts.

Craig: Yes.

John: Dana Fox is a writer and showrunner whose credits include, taking a breath here, What Happens in Vegas, Couples Retreat, Ben and Kate, How to Be Single, Cruella, Home Before Dark, The Lost City, Wicked, and the upcoming Wicked: For Good. She’s also my former assistant and one of my very favorite people. Welcome back, Dana Fox.

Craig: Ta-da.

Dana Fox: John and Craig are my favorite people. I have to say it right away. Get it out of my system.

John: We’re recording this in our office on a very rainy day. Behind you is the couch, which you would often take naps on.

Dana: I assume you were going to have it bronzed, but it’s just the same couch. It’s still here.

John: The same couch. Lambert is now taking a nap on your couch.

Dana: I saw it, and I had a Pavlovian response to it. The second I saw it, I thought I was going to fall asleep on it.

Craig: The gravity just takes you in, and you just want to lie down and not work.

Dana: Hold me towards it and made me disappoint John because I wasn’t awake to answer his phone.

Craig: Look at you now.

Dana: It’s because he let me nap that I think I did so well in the business.

Craig: [laughs] Okay. Well, something has to explain it.

Dana: I just needed to sleep a little bit. I was so tired. I needed to prep.

John: Look at you now with those headphones on. As Craig said, you do look like Princess Leia.

Dana: Thanks, guys.

Craig: Exactly like Obi-Wan, you’re our only hope, Princess Leia, because you’re wearing a Princess Leia–

Dana: She was a real hero of mine, so thank you for that. I really wanted to be her.

John: Carrie Fisher, of course. Incredible.

Dana: Oh my God, she’s incredible, and the most amazing writer.

John: Did you ever meet her?

Dana: No, I never did. I would have lost my mind.

John: I went to a birthday party for a friend that was at her house. She was exactly as cool and weird as you would want her to be.

Dana: A dream.

John: A dream. An absolute dream.

Craig: Nice.

John: Today, with you on the show, I do want to talk about Wicked, obviously. I also want to talk about character suffering, whether the ’90s were really a great movie decade, or whether this is all just our nostalgia. We’ll get into that.

Dana: Amazing. Am I the character who’s suffering or characters that I write?

John: You will be. There’s a listener question about character suffering.

Dana: Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about me. I was like, “I’m now suffering.”

John: Well, we’ll get into suffering because in our bonus segment, I want to talk about the promo circuit because you’re on the promo circuit right now, and Craig’s been through the promo circuit. It’s just exhausting.

Dana: It’s intense. I’m really tired.

John: It’s a mark of success that you have to do the promo circuit, but it’s just it’s a lot.

Dana: Yes, and you became a writer because you enjoy pajamas and glasses and never doing your hair, and then you’re on–

John: Not being looked at, basically.

Dana: Never having a single person look at your face.

Craig: Yes. That’s my favorite thing in the world.

Dana: Craig, that is the best thing in the entire world. Then you’re on the promo circuit and all the wrong things are happening. People are looking directly at your face.

John: Sitting next to you is the Scriptnotes book, the Hardcovers, which just came in. We’re so excited to hold them. Craig, have you gotten yours up in Canada yet?

Craig: I have not received it in Canada yet. I don’t even know if you guys have my address in Canada.

Dana: You guys, it’s so beautiful. I can’t wait to read it. It’s so gorgeous. Just to say, if I may, John and Craig are the people that I call whenever I don’t know how to do anything. I’m always like, “Hey, guys, I’m sorry.” Let’s say I started with a voiceover, and then I have to do a fade-in. “Where does fade in go on the page?” Nobody knows. It all looks weird.”

John: Basically, non-creative questions then.

Dana: No, that’s not true. I call you guys with every question I have. Now I just have the book, so there’s no excuse that I’m not allowed to call you anymore. I have to look at the book.

Craig: It’s true. Dana sometimes calls. She’s like, “But is 1 also a prime number?” It doesn’t even have to be about screenwriting. It’s about anything.

Dana: It doesn’t even have to be about screenwriting. Totally.

John: One of the goals with the Scriptnotes book, as you remember, is that we wanted a book that if you were to throw it across the room, you could hurt a person. I’ll say that the book has some sharp edges to it, which is nice, but it’s actually lighter than I’d expect. Isn’t it lighter in your hand?

Dana: It’s looking wild. It looks like a trompe-l’oeil. Is it a cake? You know that show?

Craig: Absolutely. It looks like it could be cake.

Dana: Is it cake?

John: It could be cake.

Dana: Yes, because you pick it up and it’s like, “Ooh, no problem,” but it looks substantial.

John: If you throw it in your backpack, it’s not weighing you down, but it is a substantial book. Also, it lies flat, which I didn’t know was going to happen, but actually it’s nice.

Craig: Oh.

John: You can actually open up it.

Dana: [gasps] You’re right. I’m doing it. Reader or listener, I’m doing it. This is great.

Craig: You called the podcast listeners readers.

Dana: I don’t know how to do this, you guys. I’m so bad at stuff. I called my phone the internet before to John. I said, I just kept pointing at it and going, “I have to internet it later.” He was like, “What is happening with you?”

Craig: Oh, Dana Fox.

Dana: I love you guys.

John: Thank you to everybody who sent in the pre-order receipts to Drew at askajohnaugust.com, because we love those and they’re a way for us to know how many people are actually buying the book. This past week, Drew, you sent all those folks a bonus chapter. How did that go?

Drew: Really well. People were really nice about it and sent glowing emails back, which felt nice to read.

Dana: I’m going to do a thing. Am I allowed to say this?

John: Please.

Dana: I’m going to do a thing on my ‘internet’, which is my phone, on Instagram. My handle is @inthehenhouse. I’m going to give away 20 copies. I’m going to send them to people.

Craig: What? Really?

Dana: To young people, students. If you’re a student, if you’re trying to be a writer, I want to send you one of these books because these men, Craig and John, are the greatest people of all time, that they’ve spent their time trying to help other writers be better. They believe ‘rising tides raises all boats’, and they’re generous with their time. I love them. I want to send 20 books to whoever needs one.

John: Fantastic.

Craig: I have never felt anything doing this podcast until this moment.

Dana: DM me on my internet.

Craig: I’m having feelings.

Dana: Are you having feelings, Craig?

Craig: I’m having feelings. That was beautiful. Thank you.

Dana: It’s the least I could do. I just think you guys are amazing.

Craig: That’s very sweet, and it’s very generous of you, unless you’re stealing the books. If you’re stealing the books, it’s not generous.

Dana: No. I’m buying the books and giving them away.

Craig: Oh, okay. That is generous.

John: The bonus chapter we sent out is on getting stuff written. It was a chapter that was originally going to be in the book, and the book was just 600 pages, so we had to make some beautiful cuts [unintelligible 00:05:46]. We cleaned it up, we’ve formatted it nicely, and we sent it to all the people who had pre-ordered the book and sent the receipts in.

Dana: It’s amazing.

John: We’re still going to send it out. If you pre-order it now, we will send it to you. Drew will send it to you today. If you want this bonus chapter, it turned out really well.

Dana: Great. I’ll take the bonus chapter. Can I get some bonus chapter later?

Craig: Absolutely.

John: She needs to get some stuff written. One of the questions we get frequently is, are Craig and I going to do the audiobook, or are we going to read the audiobook for the Scriptnotes book? The answer is hell no. We are not doing that. That is a job left to a professional.

Dana: Correct.

John: I’m so excited to introduce the professional who actually did read the Scriptnotes book.

Craig: Woohoo.

John: Graham Rowat is an actor, a narrator whose talents span Broadway stages, television screens, audiobook recordings. You’ve seen him on Broadway in Dear Evan Hansen, Sunset Boulevard, Mamma Mia!, Guys and Dolls, Beauty and the Beast. He’s also a friend and a longtime Scriptnotes listener. Graham Rowat, welcome officially to The Scriptnotes podcast.

Graham Rowat: Thank you for having me.

Dana: Listen to that deep voice, guys.

Craig: You can hear the Broadway right in there.

Dana: Listen to–

Graham: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Craig: It’s so good.

Graham: [chuckles]

Craig: So good.

Dana: Get out of here. Your advice just got better. Everything you guys wrote in the book is better. Just look at that.

John: Come on, the gravitas of that?

Dana: Intense.

Craig: These shows that you’ve been in, just one great show after another. Congratulations. That’s amazing.

Dana: I know. Incredible.

Graham: I thought to myself, I know John gets to Broadway shows. How about the other guests on the pod today? Does anyone get to see Broadway that often?

Dana: Funny story.

Craig: Not as often as I’d like to. I live in Los Angeles, and now I live in Canada.

Graham: For sure.

Craig: I do see shows pretty frequently once they make their way to the Pantages or something like that, or I go to the bowl. I went for Jesus Christ Superstar, and I went for Into the Woods.

Craig: That’s great.

Graham: I love a show.

Dana: That’s great.

Graham: What can I say?

Dana: I love a show.

Graham: I love a show.

John: We mostly love that your voice is our book because when the topic of the audiobook came up and Graham graciously asked, “Hey, do you or Craig want to do it?” It was like, “Oh, it’ll be like four days in a recording studio.” You’re like, “Absolutely not.”

Dana: No.

John: I wanted somebody to do the book who knew the show, knew the voice of the show, had a sense of what this was like. I asked Graham who would do it, and they figured out how to make a deal for Graham to do it. Graham, I’m curious, what is it like to record this? Because the book is not Craig and I back and forth. It’s just, it’s a we voice behind it. What is your process? What is your instinct going into try to read this book?

Graham: Well, the first thing I did was I wanted to listen to every one of the episodes that featured the guests that are quoted in the chapters. It’s tricky because I want to find a neutral voice, but I hear you and Craig when I’m reading the book. There are distinct moments, too. There’s a chapter, the Die Hard chapter, where it is the two of you having a discussion.

Craig: Yes, it’s true.

Graham: The neutral voice is pretty much me. That’s always the easiest thing to work from and go back to. Then, when the two of you step out and actually are John and Craig, for example, there’s Craig’s whole chapter where he presents his approach to screenwriting, I tried to stay true to the Craig persona.

Here’s the thing: it’s a matter of very subtle changes because one of the very first things they teach you when you’re learning the old audiobook stuff is that anything too broad, that’s what the audience is going to be listening to, especially accents. They’re going to be sitting there thinking, “I don’t think that’s a very good accent.”

Dana: You decided not to do the Australian accent for Craig?

Graham: I didn’t. I gave him sort of the Maverick Ed McMahon energy.

Craig: Nice. Good.

Dana: Hot. Yes, sexy.

Craig: Not hot, no. McMahon, no.

Dana: Oh, I thought what the Ed McMahon energy was. I always thought it was really sexy.

Graham: No, young Ed McMahon. A real young, dashing Ed McMahon.
[laughter]

John: Graham, a question for you. We’re talking about the chapters that are interspersed with all the subject chapters are interview chapters. Greta Gerwig and Christopher Nolan, for example, we try to do a light edit on them so you can still feel their voice and how they speak. What was it like for you to figure out how to make them sound on that? They read differently on the page, so how was it actually articulating those?

Graham: Thankfully, and listening to the episodes and listening to the interviews allowed me to have an image in my head so that when I got to Greta’s chapter, I could make a very slight adjustment vocally. It’s more about the conversational tone that was a part of their interviews. If I can inject? A little bit of a more casual conversational tone in their chapters, I feel like that makes it more distinct. If I am doing a Greta, I have her in my head because I’d listen to her, so if I make a slight pitch adjustment and I just make it a little more casual, I feel like I’m doing her justice, and I’m making enough of a shift away from the neutral narrator.

Christopher Nolan was the tricky one because he’s the very first one up. I thought if he had been ninth or tenth in your list of guests and I’d reached him, I probably could have gotten away with a very subtle English accent. I think the listener would have been okay with that because they’d be like, “Well, he’s used up all the other textures. We can give him a break.” But because he was the first one up, I had a conversation with the producer when I recorded this; he was Chris [unintelligible 00:11:14] was patched in from Texas. I said, “Should we do it?” and we came down on the side of not doing an accent for Christopher Nolan.

Craig: I think that’s fair. I think it’s a smart idea, given the fact that it starts it off because some people who haven’t heard Christopher Nolan speak might think, “Oh, this entire thing is going to be read in an English accent.” Also, Christopher’s brother Jonah has no English accent.

Graham: It’s so fascinating how different they are.

Craig: I feel like the Nolan family, you’re allowed to do either English or American. You’re fine.

Graham: That’s a relief.

Craig: Yes, you’re good. They won’t be coming after you.

John: Well, Graham, we are so, so, so appreciative that you did the book. Thank you so much for reading it. For folks who want to hear Graham read it, it’s December 2nd, just like the main book is out. It’s available everywhere. It should be on Audible, but every place you can buy audiobooks will have it.

Dana: I have 42 Audible credits I need to spend. I’m going to use one of them on this.

John: This is the perfect thing. It’s also going to be fun for people who’ve listened to the whole show to hear our words and just a different person saying it, which is great.

Dana: Different way.

Craig: Love it.

Dana: That’s so great. I’m so excited. There’s no one I trust more for advice about screenplay writing than you guys. This is amazing that you’ve done this book.

Craig: Thank you, Dana. Whatever content we provided, plus Graham’s magically resonant voice, should be very effective. Everyone should write better after this. We don’t know what else to do, honestly.

John: Graham, thank you. Thank you so much.

Dana: Thank you. Nice to meet you.

Graham: It was my pleasure. Thank you so much.

Craig: Thank you, Graham.

Graham: Take care.

Dana: That’s a chill voice right there, man.

Craig: It’s a good voice.

Dana: My thing is I usually listen to voices like that to go to bed at night. I’m having an ‘all right, all right’ moment from just talking to him. I’m ready to snooze it up on that couch over there.

John: Do you listen to any of those sleepcasts where they just talk about nonsense that just goes on, it just melts away?

Dana: Yes, 100%. I like a little patter. I like a sleep timer, and then boom, I’m out.

John: We have some follow-up to get to. Drew, could you start us off with some follow-up?

Drew Marquardt: Martin writes, “I recently listened to John’s appearance on the Birbiglia podcast, and I was fascinated by his method of writing his screenplays in Las Vegas hotels. I wonder if John is aware that this technique of literary production was invented and/or perfected by one of the most successful writers of all time, Agatha Christie. I saw an image making the rounds last year, clearly a scan of an actual book, but I don’t know what book. The quote is attributed to an author named Christiana Brand, and here is the quote.

‘Agatha Christie once described to me her own particular method of getting down to work. She mulled over a book in her mind until it was ready. She said, ‘Well, we all do that.’ She would then repair to a very bad hotel. In a bad hotel, there was nothing to do but to write and plenty of time to do it in. The beds were so uncomfortable that you had no inclination to retire early or to get up late. The armchair’s so unyielding that you wasted not a minute in idle relaxation. The meals were so bad that there was no temptation to linger over them.
Any guests who would put up with such conditions must, of necessity, be so stupid that you couldn’t possibly make friends and spend precious moments in desultory chat. The book would be done in a matter of weeks, and you could pack up a few dull clothes, which were all you needed to bother to take with you and go off triumphantly home.'”

John: Dana Fox, this thing of me writing in hotel rooms, I think I did that while you were my assistant. Was I ever faxing you pages? Do you remember that?

Dana: 100%. A fax machine was involved at some point. I think, also, you did a thing involving trains at one point.

John: I took the train from LA to Seattle and wrote on the train, and then I faxed stuff back from the train. I’m not surprised that Agatha Christie has written this, except that this last April, I was in Aswan, Egypt, where she wrote Death on the Nile, and I was at the hotel where she wrote Death on the Nile. It was the Old Cataract Hotel. By the way, it is a luxury hotel.

Dana: Yes, she’s full of shit.

John: Maybe at this point, she was actually like-

Dana: The armchair was amazing. The desultory conversations occurred constantly.

John: We were able to tour the room where she wrote it. It’s like a three-room thing with a walk-in closet.

Dana: Fantastic.

John: Then a patio. So she’s kind of flying.

Dana: Yes. [chuckles] It’s kind of amazing.

John: That’s what I’m hearing.

Craig: Thank you for writing in about this. I’m not surprised that Agatha Christie has done this. Let’s move on to follow up on weirdness. Mike has a recommendation for a good, weird movie.

Drew: “You Want Weird? Friendship from Andrew DeYoung. My wife called it the worst movie she’s ever seen. I thought it was brilliant. We’re still married.”

John: I really liked Friendship, by the way. It should have been one of my One Cool Things. It’s a movie with Tim Robinson and Paul Rudd. It is just really, really strange in a way that I loved.

Dana: I remember seeing that and thinking, “I’m going to like that,” and then never seeing–

John: You’re going to watch it on the plane when you fly home?

Dana: That’s right. That’s a plane movie.

John: It’s a plane movie.

Dana: I like to cry on planes, too. Can I cry in that or not?

John: No. You will laugh and feel unnerved.

Craig: You can cry.

Dana: I like to cry, if possible.

Craig: At the end, if you feel like a good cry, just force it out. It’s funny.

Dana: Just force it out of you.

Craig: We were on a plane recently and–

Dana: Yes, we were on a plane recently.

Craig: I feel once we stopped talking to each other, we started to cry.

Dana: My daughter, who is 11, bought me a sweatshirt because she knows how much I like to sleep. I feel like this is the only thing I’ve talked about on this podcast is sleeping. She bought me this sweatshirt. It’s called ‘Comfrt’ but it’s missing a letter-

John: Of course, it has to be.

Dana: -because you couldn’t name it that.

Craig: ‘Comfrt’.

Dana: ‘Comfrt’. It’s so soft. Then you put the hoodie over your head, and you pull down an eye mask that’s inside the hoodie that clutches to your face. I was like, “Charlotte, this is crazy. I can’t wear this. It’s hot pink. I’m like an adult woman. This is crazy.” It’s got zippers all over for all sorts of things. It’s extraordinary.

John: Yes, life-change [unintelligible 00:16:50] [crosstalk]

Dana: Literally, there’s never been a better. It was absolutely life-changing. I’m asleep inside of it. I wake up, and I whip up my little eye things. I see Craig Mazin standing in front of me, going, “Dana Fox, what are you doing here on this plane?” We talked for so long on the plane. It was adorable. Everybody around us got involved in us. It was very cute.

Craig: You know what? You looked like a cute little Jawa.

Dana: Thank you.

Craig: Now you’re Princess Leia. Then you were a little Jawa.

Dana: I’m doing the whole series. I’m doing all of Star Wars.

Craig: If you want adorable, find Dana Fox in her slanket on a plane.

Dana: It’s pretty slankety. I tried to sell it to your wife. I was like, “I get kickbacks on every sale.”

Craig: I’m buying her one. I’m buying her a slanket.

Dana: It’s amazing. I was going to get it for you, but I learned about Craig that he doesn’t like sweatshirts that don’t have zippers. Good talk.

Craig: I need the pull-down. I can’t be trapped.

Dana: You need to get in and out of it that way. Are you the same way?

John: Yes. I really like a zip-up hoodie.

Dana: Are you claustrophobic at all?

John: Not especially. A sweater’s fine. I don’t like a pull-over sweatshirt.

Dana: Interesting. I don’t have many pullover sweatshirts either, unless they have an open neck, in which case I’m fine because I know I can escape.

Craig: That’s what you needed to know about screenwriting and things that are interesting to screenwriters.

John: Let’s just cut right to the heart of the matter. Let’s get right onto the craft and do some follow-up on cuck chairs.

Dana: What’s that?

Craig: Oh, cuck chairs.

John: In episode 710, we were discussing cuck chairs. I’m not even quite sure how we got to the–

Dana: That sounds like a swear word, like 100%.

John: Again, this is why we have a not safe for work warning on this episode. The cuck chair is the chair next to the bed for when the husband has another man sleeping with his wife, so he can watch a cuckolding.

Dana: It’s like an intentional cuckolding.

John: Yes. The cuckold sits in the cuck chair.

Dana: Oh, God.

John: You know the standard corner of the hotel room chair.

Dana: Yes, but the fact that it happens so much in this story that there’s a whole chair for it, as if so many intentional cuckolding situations where people are accepting the cuckolding is happening.

Craig: I got to say, this is a very popular thing.

Dana: Is it really? No, stop it.

Craig: No, no. The cuck chair itself, I don’t know if that’s particularly– This whole cuckolding thing, it’s massive.

Dana: I literally cannot think of anything I would like less than all of this. I have always wanted to be the kind of gal that gets invited into a three-way. I have had so many people invite whoever I’m with into the three-way in front of me without me. They’re like, I would love to take your boyfriend or husband into a three-way with me and mine. I’m like, “I’m standing right here.” I think they can tell I would be very annoying, and I would want to talk the whole time.

Craig: What? No.

Dana: Nothing sexy. I’d be like, “You guys, this seems complicated. I feel like we’re going to all have feelings later that we need to talk about.”

Craig: Actually, it feels to me like the cuck chair might be made for you because it’s not a three-way. You’re not involved.

John: No, so you’re just watching.

Craig: You’re just watching.

Dana: I’m the husband in the chair? Oh, okay.

Craig: Or the wife.

Dana: Well, then, all right. Maybe. Honestly, maybe.

John: You could [unintelligible 00:19:49] have enough.

Craig: You could spend your Audible things.

Dana: Can I put the little eye mask over my face while it’s happening so I don’t have to watch it?

Craig: If you’re not watching, is it really cuckolding?

Dana: I would like to hear it, honestly. Just not see it.

Craig: Oh, that’s fun.

Dana: I feel like that would be sexier.

John: I’m not sure if I mentioned it, as we first discussed in episode 710, but there is a great episode of Decoder Ring, which is specifically about the cuckold chair and cuckolding in general, which goes back to the history of where it came from in Elizabethan times to now, it’s where it all came from. We have some more specific follow-up, including previous guests who’ve done work in this area. Drew, help us out.

Drew: Yes, comedian Sarah Schafer is selling miniature cuck chairs. It’s not inflatable like we talked about, but I still feel like she beat us to the punch.

Dana: I love her. I’ve met her.

John: She makes miniature models, so she makes a miniature hotel cuck chair. We also talked about on episode 710–

Dana: How is this a thing, guys?

John: -that my other company needed to make an inflatable cuck chair. You just put it there when you need it, but when you don’t need it, you can just put it away.

Dana: You have a company that makes sex stuff?

John: No, not at all. I said we would never do that.

Dana: Oh, okay. I thought you said ‘my other company’ has to make it, like my already established sex chair company.

Craig: John has an entire sex toy company that he hasn’t mentioned.

Dana: I thought that’s what you were saying. It didn’t seem like that far of a stretch. I was like, “Oh, he does technology and sex chairs and stuff.”

Craig: It does seem like a stretch, Dana. It’s a stretch.

John: It’s a stretch. We do have Scriptnotes barware.

Dana: Okay, that’d be cool.

John: It turns out, on Amazon, we found two inflatable chairs that feel exactly right for this purpose. We’ll put the links in the show notes there. Craig, do you want to click through and see these? This is one inflatable chair. You see, it looks like a side chair at a hotel, but it has a logo on it.

Dana: You can carry it in the bag.

John: Absolutely.

Dana: Nobody has to know. Did I ever tell you about the time I checked into a hotel, the only time I’ve ever changed my room? Because I don’t think I’m good enough to get into a hotel room and change it, and say like, “This isn’t good enough for me. I need a better room.” I don’t believe I deserve that. One time, I checked into a room and I opened the minibar and there was a half-eaten sandwich and an open box of suppository laxatives.

Craig: No, you’ve got to move.

Dana: I was like, “I got to go.” I was like, “I love you. I can’t. I support whatever happened here. I’m open to it, but I got to go.”

Craig: Did you write the scene, though? That’s a great scene prompt. Half a sandwich, laxatives. What went wrong here?

Dana: I think you guys should make your listeners write it because I couldn’t figure out what had happened. It was like a murder scene.

Craig: Sandwich and laxatives at the same time?

Dana: To me, it was the sandwich that was so confusing. It was a half-sannie. Anyway, why are you eating if you’re sopped up?

Craig: Yes, that’s the one that’s really tripping me up. Well, I got to tell you, John, you found a great product here if you’re a cuckold. The only issue, as I can see, is that the recommended maximum weight capacity is 200 pounds. I got to figure a lot of cucks are going to be two-plus.

John: If you pop the cuck chair, that’s extra humiliating, right?

Dana: That might work for the person who wants to be in the cuck chair.

John: I think the second choice may actually be better because this is the inflatable beanless beanbag chair. Besides the bed, it’s pretty humiliating to be sitting in that. It’s loaded around.

Dana: Honestly, it looks pretty nice to me. I think it looks comfortable, no?

John: It’s also max weight 200.

Craig: Again, there’s a gap in the market.

John: Yes, for plus-size cuckolds.

Dana: Built-in possibility for humiliation seems actually in line with the cuckold chair, so it sort of feels like it works.

Craig: You know what? God bless everyone, by the way. If that’s what you’re into and everybody’s cool with it, who cares? I don’t care.

Dana: That’s how I feel. Do your thing, man. Get your sandwich in your cuck chair, and another thing, and you just eat half the sandwich.

John: 100%

Craig: You just have to recognize. I think it’s fair to acknowledge, we don’t king shame. Some kinks are innately amusing. That doesn’t mean we’re degrading you.

Dana: No, we’re happy for you that you found a thing that you like.

Craig: We’re not even laughing at you. It’s just the concept is funny. It just is. It’s funny.

John: Let’s bring it back to a more wholesome moment here. We have some follow-up here from Carrie.

Drew: Carrie says, “I wanted to thank John and Craig for being such calming voices. My dog absolutely hates riding in the car. She’ll often tremble the moment she gets in. However, I’ve found that if I have Scriptnotes on, she’s much less likely to be upset and instead settles for mild discomfort. The moment I get in the car with her, I turn on Scriptnotes, and if an episode ends while I’m driving, I’ll immediately rewind and keep listening. If I don’t, the moment it ends, she starts to huddle in the back seat. While I’d like to thank them for their invaluable writing advice, I also thank them for their pup whisperer skills.”

Dana: That’s really sweet.

Craig: Do you know, ‘settles for a mild discomfort’ is probably what the person with half a sandwich and the laxatives is thinking.
[laughter]

Dana: In the cuck chair.

Craig: Yes, in the cuck chair.

Dana: That’s actually amazing. Also, how sweet is that?

Craig: How sweet.

John: That’s really nice.

Dana: You guys, you have nice pup voices.

Craig: We have nice pup– Yes.

Dana: I believe this. You guys are really good dudes. Pups love you. Pups know you.

Craig: I’ll tell you, my dogs do not like driving around. Cookie does the same thing. She’s very trembly. Real me is talking, and that doesn’t seem to do anything at all. Maybe it’s John.

Dana: Not even podcast me. It’s just actual me.

Craig: Actual me does nothing.

Dana: Oh.

Craig: Oh.

John: All right. Enough banter before we get started. It’s the key topic here. Dana, congratulations on Wicked.

Dana: Thank you.

Craig: Woo.

John: Wicked 1 and now Wicked 2. This was a long journey.

Dana: Ooph. Yes.

John: Let’s briefly recap what the history of Wicked is. Obviously, there was once upon a time, The Wizard of Oz. It was a book. Then it was a movie. There was a book by Gregory Maguire called Wicked, which sold to Marc Platt, who wanted to do it as a Broadway show first. It is a Broadway show, correct?

Dana: No.

John: Tell me what I got wrong there.

Dana: I believe the idea was to make it into a movie without music.

Craig: Yes.

Dana: They started it as that. I’m pretty sure they maybe even had scripts. Then Marc left. He was running Universal at the time.

Craig: He was, yes.

Dana: He went to be a producer. He said, “The one project I want is Wicked.” He took Wicked. It was Stephen Schwartz that convinced him that Wicked needed music because, inherently, The Wizard of Oz was so musical. It was crazy to do this idea without music.

John: Yes, makes sense.

Dana: Thankfully, Stephen Schwartz convinced him to make it a Broadway musical first. Universal, weirdly, always owned it because they had originally bought it to make it into a movie. They owned part of the rights to the play. Then they made it as a musical first.

John: That’s right. The musical that Stephen Schwartz wrote the music for and Winnie Holzman did the stage play for was a massive hit. I remember seeing a pre– I was on Broadway but pre-opening with Kristin Chenoweth and-

Craig: Idina Menzel.

John: -Idina Menzel. It was great. You could tell this is going to become a thing. It did become a thing.

Dana: It almost felt redefining, I think, too, in terms of what Broadway was doing at the time. It felt almost part movie, part musical in the sense that it had a big hook.

John: Stephen Schwartz is a Broadway legend.

Dana: A genius. The greatest.

John: You’re talking about Pippin. To have somebody like Stephen Schwartz take something that could be a little bit more in the Disney commercial zone for what Broadway sometimes does, to just do this whole other weird thing that was very original in its own way. The whole thing about Wicked is, it’s not The Wizard of Oz, really at all. It’s such an original show and so weird. It’s a weird show with incredible music.

Dana: Oh, geniuses. A lot of them.

John: Talking story, the stage version makes huge changes from the book. The central concepts come through, but it feels really, really different in story and how stuff is structured. Correct?

Dana: Yes. I never read the book-

John: What?

Dana: -which turned out to be a bit of a mistake because I told my 12-year-old he could read it. Apparently, no way, no.

Craig: No. No.

Dana: Not a great idea. He was like, “Mom, some intense sex stuff happened in this book.” I was like, “Yes, I don’t know what it’s about, but I’ve heard it’s amazing.”

Craig: I don’t know about that.

Dana: The extraordinary Winnie Holzman and Stephen Schwartz got together and took the main idea from it, which they thought was so brilliant, which was like, “What if this story that you knew and you absolutely were positive you knew everything about it, what if the bad guy was not who you thought they were? What if the person that was good was maybe not actually as good as you thought they were? Let’s see what that story looks like.”

John: What if they were best friends?

Dana: What if they were best friends? Interestingly, actually, Winnie told me the other day, which I’d never heard before, originally, Glinda wasn’t actually that big of a part. It was in meeting Kristin Chenoweth and becoming obsessed with Kristin Chenoweth that they decided that it had to be a true two-hander, which I had never heard before. That was pretty interesting.

John: All these things that seem inevitable were not inevitable at the genesis of this.

Dana: Absolutely.

John: It’s that process of discovery. The stage show is a huge hit, tours the world, a bunch of different languages. We all know it and love it, but eventually we’re going to make it into a film. The decision to make it from one film to two films, I’d love for you guys to talk about that process.

Dana: I think Craig maybe was around when it was more choice, actually. He can maybe speak to that. When I got involved, I was brought in by John, too. It was already a fait accompli. It was already like, “We’re making this as two movies. We can’t question it, and we can’t go back. We have to just do it.” Craig, you knew more about that stage and development, right? Where they were deciding to make it two movies?

Craig: No, it was a condition that they wanted me to work on Wicked, and I said, “Okay, but it has to be two movies.”

Dana: See, that’s amazing because you’re a genius. You knew.

Craig: Well, I don’t know about that. I’m very familiar with the show, and I read the script as it existed. What I remember saying to Marc was, “Once she sings Defying Gravity, you have to go home. You can’t stay in the theater.”

Dana: By the way, when you’re at the play, sometimes people made mistakes and we’re like, “Bye, that was the most satisfying thing that ever happened. I’ll see you guys. We’re going to go to dinner now.”

Craig: Right. You can’t. You just can’t. Also, the second act of Wicked, totally, is quite different.

Dana: Correct.

Craig: There’s too much to shove into one movie.

Dana: The songs are so extraordinary because Stephen is such a crazy genius, that you try cutting one song–

Craig: No, you really can’t, and you shouldn’t.

Dana: You were like, “I miss that song. That song’s like a short song. I love it and I miss it.”

Craig: I said, I can outline, I can make two treatments for two different movies, and I can write a script from the beginning to the end of Defying Gravity, and that’s sort of how you, “Aah, boom,” and we’ll see you next time. Marc and the executives at Universal, separately, we’re like, “Not sure Marc will go for that.” Marc’s like, “I’m not sure the studio will go for that.” I basically was like, “Everybody, let’s just do it.” Then they all said yes, and that’s it. That was the last impactful thing I did on Wicked.

Dana: Well, it was very impactful, my friend, seriously, because it’s not an obvious choice. It felt so dangerous at the time.

Craig: It feels so obvious now.

Dana: Well, now it does. Everything feels obvious now, but at the time when we were living in it, it’s like they talk about World War II, and it’s like they didn’t know how it was going to end. Back then, they didn’t know. It might have not worked out. We sort of felt like, “Oh my God, this might not work out,” because, as Craig was saying, it was never the first movie. Whenever people saw the first movie, thank God they loved it; it was wonderful. Everyone kept saying, “Well, it was obviously the right choice to break it into two movies.” I was like, “That’s because you haven’t seen the second movie yet.” I was like, “Hold that thought until–”

John: Let’s talk about this because if the decision wasn’t to make one movie and see how it does, and then make the second movie, the decision was to make two movies at the same time, that was distinct movies that are joined.

Dana: Yes, which means you can’t screw anything up because the first movie has to be a success, because you’ve already shot the second movie.

John: Were they cross-bordered? Were you shooting scenes from two?

Dana: 100% cross-bordered, and this is the brilliance of John and the group that he had around him, all the HODs that were so extraordinary, and the brilliance of Cynthia and Ari, that they would shoot the end of movie one in the morning and shoot Wonderful from movie two in the afternoon. They’re in completely different costumes, totally different hair, different characters. They talk about how they had to use different perfumes depending on which movie they were in because they had to sense things to trigger who they were. They had different playlists for the two movies for themselves to listen to because throughout the day, they had to keep it straight. It wasn’t even just–

Craig: Because it was based on location, basically.

Dana: It was all locations, basically. We had 73 sets, and we were turning over sets constantly. These sets were enormous. Nathan Crowley, who’s our production designer, is a genius. He’s Christopher Nolan’s guy. He’s absolutely extraordinary. I’m obsessed with him. Everybody, go find an interview with Nathan Crowley. He’s the greatest guy ever and totally brilliant. His wife is also extraordinary. Obsessed.

John: You know that you’re making two movies, and we’ll get into this one in the bonus segment where we talk about– The promo circuit is like, last time you had to just talk about the first movie and not acknowledge the second movie.

Dana: This is why they were all sobbing in their interviews, and everyone’s like, “Why are these people crying so hard in their interviews?” It’s like, “Because we just finished For Good. We’re crying about For Good. We’re not crying about Popular. We’re crying about the second movie.”

John: Craig and I have not seen the second movie yet, and I’m excited to see it.

Dana: I’m so excited for you to see it.

John: One of the real challenges, as Craig was alluding to and that you were also mentioning, we remember what happens in Act 1. Act 2 races through a bunch of stuff. If you look at the Wikipedia summary of Act 2, it’s like, “Oh my God,” half a line is given to things, and so you have to make much bigger choices about storytelling.

Dana: That’s exactly right. That was the exciting challenge of it, that the second act of the play is 45 minutes long. This movie is 2 hours and 10 minutes or 14 minutes. We obviously created a lot of new material for the second movie. I always used to describe the feeling of the second act as its own movie. You walked in, you sat down with your popcorn, and you got hit with the two, three-act break, and then you went crazy from there. That’s what the feeling is of the second act, because that was appropriate for the play. Then you’re looking at, “Okay, this is a moviegoing experience. People are used to a one, two, three-act structure.”

John: You’ve got to ramp up.

Dana: You ramp up. You’re a little slow. You’re like, “Where are we now? Who are we? What are we doing?” That was the big fun of trying to figure out movie two is how do we remind people where we are? How do we get them used to how much has changed in the time lapse between the two movies? That was actually a big discussion, was how much time to have passed during the two movies. You’ll see when you see the movie. We landed on something I think is interesting.

Craig: 30 years later?

Dana: Well, no. You know what it was? What I realized with my brilliant friend, Lorene Scafaria, is that the experience of people watching the first movie was so intense for them that it actually impacted how we were all thinking about the second movie as we were working on finishing it, because it raised the bar so much. It was like the expectations got higher and higher every time people were like, “Oh my God, this movie is killing me. I saw it 42 times in theaters.” The press tour of the girls became part of the movie itself. That was their friendship in a weird way because they are friends and they’re so close. Watching them be in love with each other platonically and crying all the time about For Good, which nobody knew, created this intense feeling that we knew we had to have come through the second movie.

Part of the decision of how much time passed was, we were like, “Oh, it should be how much time passed for the audience.”

Craig: Exactly.

Dana: “It should be a year,” because the movies are coming out a year later. Then Winnie came up with some brilliant word for what a year was, which was like 12 clock-ticks of the–

Craig: Clock moons or something, yes. Yes, that’s it.

Dana: She made up some crazy word for this, but we all know it’s a year.

Craig: 12 monthly [unintelligible 00:35:13].

Dana: Yes. The moon passages of the– Yes.

John: Talk about the writing process on this because you’re writing both movies simultaneously, or did you like, “Okay, we’re going to finish the scripts for the first movie and then start the script on the second movie,” or was it all blurred together?

Dana: I was pulled in by John Chu because he’s my favorite person on planet Earth. I told him, “Anytime you want me to do something, I’m going to say yes.”

Craig: Ouch.

Dana: Oh, no, you guys, I meant that I met after you.

Craig: All right, thank you.

Dana: He’s my favorite person on planet Earth who I met after you two.

Craig: Weird, late clarification.

Dana: In the podcast, we could put that before, as if I said it right before.

Craig: Now people skip.

Dana: Matthew, just swoop it out–

[rewind sound]

Dana: I love John and Craig,

[fast-forward sound]

Dana: Working with John, he’s the most extraordinary director, but he’s so collaborative, also, and he makes me want to be a better man. He’s that guy. I’m like, “I love you, John.” I told him, “I’ll do anything with you,” after he and I work together.

John: I want to back up because you worked with him first because he was a director on your TV series.

Dana: Yes, that’s right. He had shot Crazy Rich Asians, but it hadn’t come out yet, and I needed someone to direct the first two episodes of Home Before Dark, which is my Apple TV series. I met with him and he showed me the trailer for Crazy Rich Asians, which had not come out yet. From the trailer, I was like, “You’re a genius. This is going to hit. This is so universal. This is incredible. I love you. I want you to do this.” I was trying to hire him off of a trailer. I was like, “I don’t need to see anything else. I’m obsessed with him.”

He did the most extraordinary job on the TV show. He brought in Alice Brooks, who is the DP of Wicked, to do my show. He brought in Myron Kerstein, the most brilliant editor you’ll ever meet on planet Earth, to do my show. I got to work with all his people. It was extraordinary.

John: I want to stop you for a second because it’s just such a good reminder of the relationships you form and the trust you form and being able to see what a person is like as a collaborator. You were hiring him, but then he’s actually hiring you because he can see, “Dana gets it. We have a shared vision. I know that she can deliver this thing.”

Dana: Correct. Also, I think John’s very loyal. Once he gets his people around that he knows understands the way he likes to work, he wants to keep them close. I feel so lucky to be in his orbit, honestly, because he’s just extraordinary. I said to him, “I’ll do anything for you. I’ll drop whatever I’m doing whenever I’m doing it, and I’ll say yes.” He called me after I finished Lost City. He called me and said, “I have another one for you.” He had done In the Heights, while I did Lost City and other stuff. He said, “Okay, I have another one for you.” He said, “Do you want to know what it is?” I said, “No.” The answer is yes.

He was like, “I’m going to tell you anyway.” I was like, “No, no, no, let’s do a bit where I’d make part of the deal without even knowing what it is.” I thought that would be funny. He was like, “No, I’m going to tell you, you’re an idiot.” I was like, “Okay.” He said, “It’s Wicked.” I was like, “Oh my God, everybody loves– What is it?” He’s like, “Wicked.” I’m like, “Mm-hmm. I also am one of the people that loves Wicked so much,” because I hadn’t seen it. I’m literally the only American human who had not seen Wicked.

Craig: That’s crazy.

John: What did you say when he said Wicked, you’re like, “Wicked what”?

Dana: Well, I knew of it. I knew it was popular and famous and stuff, but I’m not super dialed in. I discovered Beyoncé two years ago.

Craig: I love it.

Dana: I was like, “You guys, we need to talk. This woman’s incredible.”

John: Oh my God, this is amazing.

Dana: This is always me too late on really important things. I started watching Lost in the last season and was like, “You guys, the Hatch.” Everyone was like, “We’re so over the Hatch, we don’t want to talk about the Hatch.”

John: I like, in a weird way, that you weren’t a Wicked–

Dana: I was not a mega fan. I didn’t know anything about it.

John: Sometimes it’s better to not be burdened by–

Dana: Winnie and Stephen now talk about how helpful it was to have me there, being irreverent and not being so precious, because I just didn’t know. It was the middle of the pandemic, so I couldn’t go to Broadway to see it. I googled everything I could find. I watched the entire play in shaky clips from France, Germany, whatever, blah, blah, put it all together. I was like, “I get it.” I read the play and I played Stephen’s gorgeous music. Whenever the song would come up as I was reading it, I would play the music, and I was like, “Gosh, this is so good. This is so good, the music.” I loved it.

I was, of course, impressed, and also, I had loved My So-Called Life so much. I loved Winnie’s work from that. He said, “We’re going to work all of us together. Me, John, Winnie, Stephen, and you. We’re going to get into Zooms, and we’re going to break both movies together,” which I’d never done before with a director. I was so excited to be able to do it because it felt like every day we weren’t just breaking the story or writing the script, we were making the movie because it was what he wanted to be doing, too. He was telling us about his vision as we were all talking it through. We spent 153 hours on Zoom before we ever started writing. I know it’s a lot. Craig looks so tired from the 153.

Craig: Horrifying, just so much–

Dana: I just looked over at him and he was like, “Girl, eugh.”

John: By the way, the bullet you dodged. All right, yes.

[laughter]

Craig: No, I did not dodge a bullet.

Dana: The bullet hit you squarely.

Craig: Yes, the bullet hit me pretty hard.

John: [laughs] You had all these Zooms before you started.

Dana: Before we even started writing, but that was the ideation period, where we broke them into two movies. We carded them digitally because we were all on Zoom, so we couldn’t see each other. We had digital cards that we had made, and then I started outlining from off those cards. I outlined both movies. Then John basically was like, “Okay, we’re going to split up Movie 1 between you and Winnie, and you guys are going to write it together.” We wrote Movie 1 together as quickly as we could to get it full because we had stages booked.

They were trying to make us feel that pressure. We wrote the first movie, and then I immediately pivoted. While Winnie did notes from John and Mark. I immediately pivoted and started writing the second movie. I wrote the second movie. Then from that point forward, Winnie and I were collaborating, but we were each in a different movie. When I was in Movie 2, she was in Movie 1 and vice versa, but we were still working with each other. It was like I would send her a scene from Movie 2 and be like, “This is hot trash garbage. How would Glinda say this thing, because I’d want her to blah, blah, blah?”

There was a lot of collaboration, but we were in two separate movies. That was how we got the work done. It was super collaborative with John and with Stephen. Then, being a fly on the wall to watch Stephen Schwartz do the two new songs for the Movie 2.

John: It was pretty great.

Dana: It was like childhood Dana lost her mind. It was amazing.

Craig: I have to say that this is a really good example of you’re a good writer. I think I’m a good writer. Some people should be writing certain movies, and some people should not. The thing is, I love Wicked. I love the show, but I was not the right person for that project. You were the right person for that project. That project needed somebody that not only was a writer but also, how would I put it, a clearinghouse, a diplomat, and an ambassador. For all of these people, and also somebody that really enjoys the collaboration of writing with another writer. I’m such a monk.

Dana: Yes, you’re so private. You just want to be in your little room and do your thing.

Craig: This is just a great example. I underscore this all the time, but just in case anybody’s confused, the credits for this movie are spot on accurate. I was happy to support those. I didn’t fight you. [laughs] They’re correct.

Dana: Yes. Winnie had done a lot of work before any of us came on. That’s why she has that solo credit. Only writers will understand that credit, which is Winnie’s solo because she had been working on trying to make this into a movie for 15 years before any of us were involved in the process. That’s why she has that credit. Then AND, which means she worked also with the team of me and her. It’s a weird-looking sandwich of a credit, but it does represent what happened. It was really an amazing experience.

It was very difficult because of all those personalities and all the different things, we all cared so much. Honestly, it was really hard, I think, because we cared so much. We wanted it to be so good. We all felt this profound sense of responsibility to the fans. Then after Movie 1, it was like ratcheted up to a million. The post-process of Movie 2, I would just sit around crying because I wanted to be worthy of people’s expectations of the second movie because it was so important to them.

Then also, the world has gotten even harder. I think people desperately need a time to sit in a theater quietly with their friends and their loved ones and their family and be able to express their emotions about what’s going on in the world or whatever, in a safe place to do that. I know the movie gives you that.

John: As they witnessed the rise of fascism, you see it reflected back in the movie, yes. There’s a potential to triumph over it.

Dana: Of course, we didn’t write it that way because it was five years ago that we started writing it. We didn’t know this was going to be what happened. I just think, unfortunately, the movie is so timely because this is timeless. There are always people looking for power, and they’re going to do it at the expense of the most vulnerable people.

Craig: Steven and Winnie, all the way back when they were first conceiving of the show, and this is something that Mark told me, that there was underneath it a pretty clear allegory for Nazi Germany, for fascism, for people getting disappeared, taken away.

Dana: They were writing it in the shadow of 9/11 and the persecution of the Muslim population in America. That was partly why World War II is so fresh on the mind. If we all remember, right after 9/11, it started to get really off.

Craig: Yes. Wicked, it’s really interesting how it has so many flavors and layers. On the top, it is pink and green, and it’s two best friends.

Dana: It’s floopy, yes, 100%.

Craig: It’s funny and weird. Then underneath it, there’s something bad, something bad coming.

Dana: I think that’s what people are going to love about the second movie, is that it still has all the pink and green and floopy, but it is really about something. It really has a lot of there-there. There’s a lot of there-there for both the consequences within the friendship. The political stuff, of course, is there, and it hits harder now because of what’s happening. The friendship is so beautiful. You feel like you’ve been on this crazy emotional journey. That was another real challenge of writing the screenplay of the second movie was, in the play, there’s all these reprises.

That you’re hearing that you just heard the A side of the reprise 20 minutes ago in the play, but in the movie, you’re hearing the reprise a year later. How do you get the audience to feel the feeling of that reprise the same way they would have if they had heard the A side of it 20 minutes ago? We were constantly thinking about how do we remind them of the things that happened in the first film so that that’s fresh in their minds. A lot of it had to do with planned flashbacks, but also unplanned flashbacks that came out in editing that I think were really strategic and really smart.

Craig: Dana?

Dana: My love.

Craig: What do you think my favorite song from Movie 2 is going to be? I know what it is. I’m just saying, what do you think of this?

Dana: I’m just going to say, I don’t know what I’m allowed to say or not say, but I think that No Good Deed–

Craig: You got the answer. That’s it.

Dana: That’s it. That’s the Craig one. Your brain will exit the back of your head and then come back into it at the end. It’s like the crazy– I lost my mind.

Craig: It’s such a good song. Look, I love For Good. I love it. It’s sweet. It’s adorable. It’s a nice wrap-it-up. No Good Deed is awesome. Having seen Cynthia in Jesus Christ Superstar and watching her turn it to 11.

Dana: You told me about how beautiful that was.

Craig: Yes. I can’t wait to see what she does with that.

Dana: I would reference the song you talked about, but there’s a 100% chance I mispronounce it.

Craig: Gethsemane.

Dana: Gethsemane.

[imitating song tune]

Dana: No Good Deed’s going to kill you. Buckle your fucking seat belt for good, though, because it’s–

Craig: Fuckle your bucking seat belt.

Dana: Buckle your fucking seat belt for that one because that’s a goodbye, everybody. I don’t know why. I hope this makes you, too, also feel really emotional when you’re watching it. Part of my emotional experience with the movie is that there is a feeling, a little bit, that Hollywood is dying.

John: It’s a big Hollywood movie.

Dana: This is a big, beautiful Hollywood movie from the old days. You can’t believe this movie got made.

John: They felt the giant sets.

Dana: I have chills. These giant sets that were real, and everything was real. If it’s out of focus, it’s because a person was doing it. There’s no AI. It feels so much like the movies that got us all to be in this business in the first place.

Craig: It’s going to be massive.

Dana: Oh, I hope so. It’s just so beautiful.

Craig: Hollywood is not dying. It’s just that it’s been the months after summer, the months between summer and Thanksgiving. The New York Times once again wrote an article about how Hollywood is dying. They’re like, “Yes, it’s always dying in September and October.” [laughter] That’s what it does.

John: You forget the article you just wrote about what a big summer it was for blockbusters.

Craig: Right.

Dana: Right. That’s a good point.

Craig: Thanksgiving and Christmas comes and kaboom. It’s going to be huge.

Dana: I hope that Wicked puts the paddles back onto the business too, and clear, and it’s like, [onomatopoeia] but the problem is they never seem to learn the lessons from the movies. They’ll go like, “But that’s just Wicked, so it doesn’t count.” You can’t learn anything from it because it’s Wicked.

John: Another musical.

Dana: Nothing’s ever been like this. You’ll be like, “Okay.”

Craig: Nobody knows, but you know what? You guys did a spectacular job, and I can’t wait to see the second movie. John really is a remarkably talented director.

Dana: I do need you to FaceTime me when both of you, after you see it, because I had a hard time talking about it. I was just wandering around the after-party just like a zombie, and crying in front of famous people was basically what it was. It was just so weird. I was just like, I couldn’t stop crying. It was wild.

John: It was the experience of the movie, but also the trauma of making it a movie.

Dana: I had some health issues during it that were really difficult. The narrative I had in my head was that Wicked was what killed me. Wicked is why I got sick. Then I realized while I was watching the movie that, “Oh, no.”

Craig: Oh, no. Here we go.

Dana: I just realized that Wicked actually saved me. It gave me stuff to do while I was feeling so sick. Every day gave me a reason to get up in the morning and try and care and feel something again. It is what ultimately made me feel better. It’s what got me better from the sickness. It’s not what killed me.

Craig: That’s fantastic.

Dana: That was part of why I was weeping around the stupid after-party, like an animal.

Craig: When you were working on it, before it was in production, you and your husband were in Calgary for some reason.

Dana: Oh, boy. That was a– Yes.

Craig: I was there, and the two of us were just–

Dana: That was my breaking point. That’s where I was like, “I might have to quit because I think I’m going to die.” I was like, “I have to.” You were working on The Last of Us.

Craig: On the first season of The Last of Us, which was chaos.

Dana: You were like, “This is crazy.” Yes, and I was like, “Our health might be in danger.” [chuckles]

Craig: Yes, we were standing in a park going, “We’re dying, right? We’re dying.” [crosstalk]

Dana: Yes, and you were so nice to me. I was like, “I think I’m dying.” You’re like, “It’s okay, because I’m also dying, so we could die together.” Then I encountered a bear, and there was a moment where I was like, “Maybe it should eat me.”

John: Wow, it would be a way to go.

Dana: I was like, “This would be a killer story, first of all.”

Craig: How would I identify with that?

Dana: Then I would get out of doing the rest of this work, which is so intense.

Craig: That is what like writing is so hard that a lot of times–

Dana: That you want a bear to eat you.

Craig: I have told my assistant a number of times, listen, at some point today, don’t approach from the front, but from behind, hit me with a hammer as hard as you can on my head, and just end this, so I don’t have to do this.

Dana: I’m so glad you and John say those kinds of things because– John less so because John is just like–

Craig: John’s healthy.

Dana: He’s just too healthy. I can’t talk to you, John. I’ll talk directly to Craig. I’m so glad to hear you say this, Craig, because you’re so brilliant and so talented. I always think of myself as just a really hard worker. That’s why my work is good. Not because I have any innate talent. I’m just like, I just work harder than everybody else.

John: No. That’s an eldest daughter thing.

Dana: I’m the youngest daughter.

John: You’re the only daughter, right?

Dana: I’m the only daughter, yes. I guess you’re right. I’m still the eldest daughter.

John: The eldest daughter.

[laughter]

Dana: Hearing you say that, Craig, I think that helps me, and also all your listeners who are trying to be writers, that you also feel that way is amazing. [crosstalk] I want to die every day. I’m like, “I cannot believe how hard this still feels to me.”

Craig: Yet, every time I have a chance to stop, and I could stop, I do not stop. I never stop.

Dana: Oh, I could stop tomorrow, and I don’t stop. I’m crazy.

John: No. You’ve set up nine more shows and movies. While you’ve been sitting here.

Dana: While I’ve been sitting here, I set up 42 new things. It’s like I have a problem. I literally have a Post-it note on my desk that says, “Say no.” Then I just said yes to all the things.

John: All the things. All right. Let’s answer some listener questions here.

Dana: Yes, please.

John: James in Vancouver wants to ask about torture.

Dana: We just talked all about torture. [crosstalk] We don’t need to talk about torture. James, that was your answer to your question.

John: You guys always talk about needing to make your characters suffer in order to see them go through the maximum amount of growth possible. However, how much suffering is too much? At what point does it veer into emotional torture porn as opposed to genuine trials and tribulations?

Craig: That’s a good question.

John: I think it’s a very good question. Torture your hero is fantastic. If there’s a moment where it’s like, “I don’t want to watch this anymore,” or it feels gratuitous, I’m going to stop. You have to make sure that you are giving your character some victories, some hope along the way. If it’s just despair, if it’s 1984, people are going to stop. Then you’ve failed as a storyteller, I think.

Dana: I also feel like you ask yourself, what do you want to go through? I have to close my eyes when torture is happening, actual torture is happening in things. I feel almost the same way about emotional torture, which is like, I want to stop just shy of that because I just think that’s gratuitous and weird, and I don’t need to see it. Also, we’re in a world and a time where everything feels like torture. I tend to go with what I feel and what I think the rest of the world is feeling because I’m also feeling it. Craig, what were you going to say?

Craig: I definitely like to echo the feelings that we have, but give people a way to go through these things somewhat safely. Torturing your characters has to be purposeful. Remember, you’re not just torturing them, you are choosing what to do to them. Therefore, you have a plan, and the plan is such that the torture must be matched to their ability to withstand it and then surpass it. The real question, James, isn’t how much should I torture them? The real question is, what would make this person’s victory feel really earned and satisfying?

Dana: That’s great.

Craig: That’s all.

Dana: That’s great. Also, for each individual character, the definition of torture is totally different. For my husband, the definition of torture is me chewing food that he can hear. Literally, that could be an entire scene where he’s tortured. He says it makes him want to actually murder me in cold blood.

John: Misthonia.

Dana: Misthonia. Yes, he has that thing. You can calibrate it based on who the person is because torture is something different for each person, but that’s so smart.

Craig: You calibrate it depending on the person, and you also calibrate it depending on the tone. In comedies, torture could be as “torturous” as, “The girl that dumped me is with the guy that beat me up yesterday, and I have to sit here and watch them dance.” That’s torture. It’s not Zero Dark Thirty torture. [laughs]

Dana: Yes, nobody’s strapped to a chair in that story.

Craig: Right, but sometimes you do strap someone to a chair, and that’s–

Dana: To a cuck chair. Bringing it back.

Craig: If they’re only 200 pounds.

Dana: We’re going to make it a runner. [crosstalk] Don’t worry about it.

John: To recap, when you’re thinking about torturing your characters, you’re thinking about what is it that you want. What is it that makes you feel uncomfortable or comfortable? What do you as the writer want? You’re thinking about the audience. Where is the audience in this? Also, crucially, you’re thinking about the character. What is it about this character and their journey that this torture is allowing them to grow and progress and do the things you’re going to do?

Dana: I particularly like what Craig says because that almost reframes it for me in a way that I understand that question even more, which is what will make their victory feel more earned, which is such a smarter way of saying what specific torture is right for this person and what level. If you think about it, in Wicked Movie 1, we realized, like, since it was ending at Defying Gravity, she can’t be defeating the wizard. That was what her I Want song was about, but she can’t defeat the wizard because she can’t do that until the second movie.

What she had to defeat was the part of herself that didn’t believe that she could do it. That led to all these discoveries of she was going to see herself as a child and all these different things. It led to different forms of torture for her in Movie 1 than are the ones that she experiences in Movie 2. It was all about making those victories feel earned and/or the bittersweet ending feel as sad as possible.

Craig: That’s a good question, though. You know what? Vancouver representing.

Dana: I love Vancouver.

John: One other quick question here from Zach. Was the 1990s a great decade for action movies, or am I just experiencing whatever generation thinks that the decade they grew up in has the best media? Some of the films that he’s listing here are The Fugitive, Bad Boys, Mission Impossible, Independence Day, Speed, Armageddon, Twister, Men in Black, and many others.

Dana: They’re all perfect.

Craig: Amusingly, none of those movies are even in the top 50 of the best movies of the 1990s. The answer is yes. The 1990s were incredible.

Dana: It’s insane. Yes.

Craig: I grew up in the ’70s and ’80s, and I’m here to tell you the ’90s were the best 10 years of movies that I’ve experienced in my life. When I look back at what they did there, it’s astonishing.

John: The danger is that we are all roughly the same age cohort and that we were in our young 20s there. You always think about that period of your life as being like, “Oh, that was fantastic.” The way we would test that is we should get younger people to watch movies of the different decades and have them–

Dana: Shouldn’t that be a follow-up question? [crosstalk] Can you ask your audience, to younger people, “Watch those movies and see if they’re bangers like we think they are”?

Craig: I have been showing great hits of the ’90s to my assistants and the office PAs and basically all the kids that are–

Dana: What do they think?

Craig: It’s been just one home run after another.

John: That’s great.

Dana: That’s great. Will you share that list, though? Share that list. Put that list out for me. Give me your top 10 because I want to watch them.

Craig: This list right here, all these movies are fun, but it’s like he’s not even listening. Pulp Fiction, Goodfellas, Silence of the Lambs. [crosstalk] I can just go on. Fargo. There’s so many incredible movies.

John: He was specifically talking about action in his days. Yes, there are incredible movies. 1999 was a banner year. You look at the movies that came out that year, it was absurd. Yes, you’re right.

Craig: You know what? Fair, Zach. You were talking about action movies. I’ll give you a pass on that. All those were great action movies. The Fugitive is like–

Dana: The Fugitive is a perfect movie. Have I ever talked to you about the movie? Okay, I want to tell. Super quick, though. We may have learned this because we went to the Stark program, so we may have learned this the same. I always learned structure was character, and it was all about how the character’s going through a specific journey. We learned there’s the character’s need and there’s the character’s want. The movie is all about where they start off the movie, where they want something, and they’re making a journey towards needing something.

Wherever they are along the way, those key plot points are always about whether they’re getting what they need or whether they’re getting what they want, that kind of thing. The other thing that I learned was that the protagonist is the character who changes, not the lead of the movie. It’s the character who changes, and the antagonist is the character who causes that person to change. The protagonist of The Fugitive is Tommy Lee Jones, of course. The antagonist is Richard Kimble because Harrison Ford, of course, is the lead of the movie.

Craig: He doesn’t change.

Dana: He doesn’t change at all. He’s like, “I didn’t kill my wife,” in the beginning of the movie. In the middle of the movie, he’s like, “I swear to fucking God, I didn’t kill my wife.” At the end of the movie, he’s like, “I fucking told you I didn’t kill my wife.” Tommy Lee Jones, the whole structure is key to Tommy Lee Jones’s arc in understanding that Richard Kimble is telling the truth.

Craig: Yes. This is all correct.

Dana: That helps me with structure more than anything else.

Craig: Nice.

John: All right. It’s time for our One Cool Things. My one cool thing is sitting between me and Dana. It’s a thing called the Owl, and it’s this little camera device. It looks like a speaker. It looks like a tall speaker, but it has a camera at the top that is a panoramic camera. We’re on a Zoom like we are right now with Craig, and Drew, and Graham. It is showing individual slices, individual shots of me and Dana, so that we actually look well framed in it. It is just a piece of magic. It’s the Owl.

If you’re doing any sort of situation where you have some people in a place and other people are on Zoom, it is a game-changer. When we’ve done other things like this, Scriptnotes, you have to move the laptop back far enough so that everyone can see each other, or there’s a camera up on the wall.

Dana: I’ve done so many things like this, I’ve never seen it work as well as it’s working right now. We’re all seeing each other’s faces. Everybody’s in the frame. It’s amazing.

Craig: It’s really effective.

John: What’s so smart about it is it has the panoramic view, and it shows you at the top, but it’s smart enough to individually slice out when someone is speaking to give them framed as a single.

Dana: I urge every studio to get one of these because all of those Zoom calls I have with you guys, where 27 of you are in one frame, I can’t do it anymore.

John: I was on a Netflix call, and literally, it was like a satellite shot of two executives at a table.

Dana: Yes, satellite, literally, like a Google Earth shot of the Netflix building.

John: It’s hard for me to read it in attention. I’m like, “All right. Do they get it?”

Dana: I was like, “Do they like it? Do they want it?” I can’t tell.

Craig: I’m going to get one of these for the production office. I’m going to get one tomorrow.

Dana: Oh, for the production office. It would kill for that. For production meetings?

Craig: Yes.

Dana: Everybody. Great.

John: Craig, for D&D, when we’re a hybrid, like while you’re up in Canada, game changer.

Craig: Yes. [laughs] John and I–

Dana: Did you just slip in that Craig is doing D&D?

Craig: No, we play D&D together.

John: Play D&D every week.

Dana: Oh, I thought you guys were making a movie together. It’s cute. You guys are cute.

Craig: We are. We’re adorable. We talk about torture. John and I were playing in a game on Thursday evening, where we were subjected to a three-hour pointless combat, where we ended up captured and shoved into a mine.

Dana: Oh, my God. Are you with other people in this story? Who else is in there?

John: Oh, my God. Who’s who? It’s me, and Craig, and Chris Morgan. We’ll talk about it. We’ll tell you after. We’ll sidebar.

Dana: Yes, sidebar. Chris Morgan made it in, though. We all know he was there.

John: Dana Fox, do you have a one cool thing to share with us?

Dana: I would love my one cool thing to be my husband’s podcast, which is called The Most Important Question. It’s mostly about climate change, and science, and all sorts of interesting stuff. Because it’s not a thing, I am going to say my one cool thing is heating pads. Because what it allows you to do is lower the temperature in your bedroom to 55. If you can’t see your breath, you’re not doing it right. Then you get the heating pad so that you don’t die. It allows you to keep the room as cold as you need to keep it. Amazing sleep.

John: Love it.

Dana: Please enjoy.

Craig: That’s good.

John: I also am a big fan of the heated seats in your car.

Dana: Stunning.

John: It can be the middle of summer, but you just want a little–

Dana: Summer? A little back warmer?

John: Yes.

Dana: Heat up that lumbar?

John: Absolutely. Loosen up your back.

Dana: Not getting back pain? Loosen it up?

John: Fantastic.

Dana: Love it. Great story.

John: The new car also has seat coolers, and so it blows air through the seat. Game changer, so you don’t have the sweaty back when you go into a meeting.

Dana: Not to steal another one cool thing, because I totally want to hear one. We also got the ID. Buzz. Let me tell you, this is the electric VW buzz that looks like the hippie thing.

John: You have 19 children.

Dana: We have 19 children. We put them in this hippie bus. We drive around, and it brings so much joy.

John: It’s a beautiful car.

Dana: It’s a beautiful car. We got the peel. People are like, “All right, all right.” Everybody becomes Matthew McConaughey when you drive by. You get peace signs. You get smoking weed signs. We’re in Virginia. We’re in southern places where nobody does shit like that. Everybody is so happy around this car. It’s the cutest thing. My husband got me a little bumper sticker on it. Surprised me one day. It says, “We can’t all come and go by bubble,” on the back of the car. It’s really precious. He’s a great guy.

John: Craig, what’s your one cool thing?

Craig: Yes, please. My one cool thing this week is a set of puzzles, a nice puzzle suite from Eric Berlin, who’s a pretty prolific puzzle constructor. He’s a big participant on one of the big teams in the MIT puzzle hunt that happens every year. This one is actually a great one if you’re thinking about getting into this sort of thing. It’s not far off, difficulty-level-wise, from the one that David Kwong and I ran back in the day at the Magic Castle. This one is called Have Fun Storming the Castle. We’ll include a link for you.

Dana: I went to the David Kwong at the Magic Castle one with you guys. That was great.

John: It was with him.

Craig: Difficulty-wise, it’s right about there. You should be able to get through it. Maybe you might need a hint or two, but probably not.

Dana: I’ve never felt dumber than when I was– I was like, “I’m so smart.” I came in, I’m like, “I’m so smart. I went to Stanford, I’m so smart.” I’ve never felt dumber than that night.

Craig: It’s because you use different skills. This one’s got eight puzzles and then one meta puzzle.

Dana: How do I engage in it? Is it online, or is it on my internet phone?

Craig: Yes, you can pick up your internet, get your internet out of your pocket,-

Dana: Okay. That’s my internet and whatever.

Craig: -turn your internet on. [laughs] Then switch your internet on.

John: Unlock your internet on your face.

Dana: Unlock your internet with my face. Copy that. I know how to do that.

Craig: Exactly. Then follow the link, and it will cost you a whole eight American dollars.

Dana: This is great. That’s a great one cool thing.

John: That is our show for this week. Scriptnotes is produced by [crosstalk]

Dana: Wait, hold on. Don’t do a thing. I love you guys. You’re amazing people, and I really love you, and I miss you, and you’re great, and thanks for being such great people.

Craig: Dana, you are just a permanent ray of sunshine. I can’t explain how happy I was to see Dana in her slanket on that plane. I was so happy.

Dana: Comfort. One of the vowels is gone. I don’t know which one. I can’t help you get the sweatshirt because I don’t know which vowel disappeared.

Craig: Like 70% of people that I know, if I had seen them on a plane in their slanket, I would pretend to have not seen them.

Dana: You would pretend that you had not seen them. 100%. No, I know. I get that about you.

Craig: I’m on a plane. I don’t want to do all that.

Dana: I felt so touched. I was like, Craig usually ignores people on planes. This is special.

Craig: Then Jack McBrayer just chimed in, and we had the best time.

Dana: We had the best time. I really do love you guys, and you’ve been amazing friends and mentors to me forever, and I appreciate you. Truly, I’m so grateful for you guys. It’s hitting me because I’m here in town for Wicked, and that took five years of my life. There are certain people in your life who just don’t leave and don’t stop being amazing, and it’s you guys.

Craig: I will say, Dana, I don’t know if I’ve been changed for the better, but I know that I’ve been changed for good.

Dana: I’m going to get you something. I’m going to get you a present. I’m going to get you some merch. Don’t worry about it.

Craig: I want merch. I want pink, and I want green.

Dana: I’m going to get you a mirror that has lights on it.

Craig: By the way, that’s how you know that no one’s ever sent me a mug.

[laughter]

Dana: I’m going to do it. I’m going to send you the mug. I’m going to send you the Owala water bottle. Everybody loves these water bottles. They did a Wicked collection. I got 72 of them for Christmas presents.

Craig: Good, because Melissa doesn’t have enough water bottles in her house.

John: No, it’s a huge shortage, yes.

Craig: We have a room that’s called Water Bottle Room.

Dana: By the way, I have 757,000 water bottles, and I somehow don’t have enough water bottles. There’s never the cap. It’s never the right thing.

Craig: This water bottle thing– Anyway.

Dana: They’ve got us by the balls. By the way, if anybody wants to have fun, look up Hugh Grant talking about water bottles. It’s a delight. I have a whole side career where I just watch Hugh Grant do interviews. It’s so fun.

Craig: Second one cool thing. I like that.

John: Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt, edited by Matthew Chilelli. Our outro this week is by Spencer Lackey. To view an outro, you can send us a link to ask@johnaugust.com. That’s also the place where you can send questions like the ones we answered today. You’ll find transcripts at johnaugust.com, along with sign up for our weekly newsletter called Interesting, which has lots of links to things about writing. You’ll find clips and helpful video on our YouTube. Just search for Scriptnotes and give us a follow.

You’ll also find us on Instagram at Script Notes Podcast. We have T-shirts and hoodies, and drinkware, but no cuck chairs. [laughter] You’ll find those at Cotton Bureau. You’ll find the show notes with links to all the things we talked about today in the e-mail you get each week as a premium subscriber. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to our premium subscribers. You make it possible for us to do this each and every week. You can sign up to become one at scriptnotes.net, where you get all the back episodes and bonus segments like the one we’re about to record on the promo circuit.

Dana Fox, thank you again for joining us on Scriptnotes.

Dana: Thank you for having me. I love you guys.

Craig: Thank you, Dana.

[Bonus Segment]

John: Dana Fox, the reason we get to see you in person in Los Angeles is because you are here doing a promo for Wicked For Good. I just want to talk about the promo circuit because on so many levels, it’s a celebration. Congratulations, you made a movie. It’s out there in the world. You made a series of a new season of television, it’s out there in the world. Then, like, oh my God, you have to just schlep around and promote it. You have to do all the things.

Dana: It looks really fun when people see it, and everybody’s dressed up, and you’ve got all the hair and makeup, and everyone’s like, “You’re great, everything’s great.” It’s so hard. It’s like a job. It’s a real job, and it takes you away from the job you get paid for, which is typing on your computer.

John: You don’t get paid to [unintelligible 01:08:43].

Dana: For months, I didn’t work because I was promoting the first movie, and thank God, we had a lot of people who wanted to talk to us, which was amazing. I felt so lucky, and so I really wanted to take advantage of it. Then it was March, and I realized I hadn’t written a single word for the year. I was like, “Oh my God, I have to pack my entire year worth of work into the next couple of months because the next promo tour is about to start.” That was very intense.

It is a lot of work, and I hate to say that because you imagine normal people with their normal jobs sitting there rolling their eyes at me, being like, “Oh, getting makeup on is really hard.” It’s like I became a writer because I’m terrible at that stuff. I’m so bad at blow-drying my hair. What even is that? It takes hours. I don’t understand it. Then I see the girls, Cynthia and Ari, and I’m like, they look like they’re going to the Met Gala every time they step out. I’m like, that is a lot of work.

John: Hours to get to that place. I remember back when I was in Startup Program, you were just a couple years behind me. There was a writer-director who was talking about, like, “Oh, yes, I do that, but I’m going to have to do the awards season starting for this movie.” Oh, that’s presumptuous. They think that movie’s made up for the awards. He wasn’t wrong. He was just like, he’d been through it before. He knew that, “Okay, those are three months I’m not going to get back.”

Dana: I’m very superstitious, so if something goes well, I have to wear the same clothes. It’s gross. It’s like, I’m that lady. I can’t talk about anything in the future. I’m like, I’m done. The premiere’s on Monday in New York, and I’m going to do that and do a couple more interviews. I’m assuming I’m done because I can’t–

John: You’re not done.

Dana: Ooh, but I can’t say it out loud.

John: Let’s talk about the gendered expectations of this, though, too, because for you need to have a great-looking outfit. Hair and makeup, but also great outfits for things, where Craig and I don’t– We’re just sticking to our suit.

Craig: I got to tell you that [crosstalk]

Dana: No, I was going to say, have you seen Craig lately? Look at his glasses. He looks so cool.

Craig: They send over a stylist who’s a lovely man, and they send over a makeup lady. Now, for me, makeup is, “Can we please make your head not so shiny?”

Dana: That takes a life time.

Craig: That’s really what makeup is. “Can we do something about the eye bags?” It takes about 20 minutes, maybe 30, but–

Dana: I’m in there for two hours and 30 minutes.

Craig: That’s the gendered part, right? That is a big one.

Dana: Can we make her look like she doesn’t have three kids?

Craig: They send over a rack of clothes, and I’ve got to try things on and make decisions. I’m not good at that.

Dana: I think that’s nice that they do that. They’ve done that for me, and I felt so appreciated. I appreciate Universal so much for treating the writer that way in features because, Craig, you’re the writer in a television show, which means you’re like the king of the castle. I’m a writer in a feature movie, which means they’re like, “Who? What’s that girl doing here?”

Craig: They don’t have to do it, and it’s nice that they are doing it.

Dana: They don’t have to. It’s very nice that they’re doing it.

Craig: It’s also a sign of how much they respect and appreciate you. For me, it was interesting hearing you say you had to take all this time off. For me, that stuff happens while we’re in post. It starts happening, I would say, two brutal months, maybe three, and I’m working all day. Then you just have to go and–

Dana: For me, when I have an interview and I have to get glammed, that’s my day. He killed my whole day. Does it do that for you?

Craig: Most of the stuff that I end up doing are interviews. There’s the junket days and all that stuff. The phone interviews or Zoom interviews, I don’t need to do anything. When somebody’s coming for a magazine and they’re doing photographs or you’re going to an event, then, yes. I got to work on a Saturday now because I did this thing on a Thursday.

Dana: Part of the reason that I accepted the whole idea of the stylist and all that stuff was because Franklin Leonard from the Black List pulled me aside and was like, “Writers are always wearing black, they’re hiding, they’re in the background, especially women, and they look like publicists for someone else. Don’t do that.” He’s like, “Wear color, be out front, make yourself look good because that is part of raising the profile of writers in Hollywood.” That’s part of people understanding that we actually work on the movies. We do stuff.

Craig: I have this thing that I think I’ve successfully articulated to the stylist I work with, which is because part of his job is to try and get me to be a little bit more adventuresome in what I wear because I’m not. Where I draw the line is I’m like, okay, but when I’m up there, like we’re doing a FYC event and it’s me and the actors, it’s about the actors. More importantly, I cannot try to even seem like I think I’m as cool as them.

Dana: I’m trying to compare myself to Pedro.

Craig: Exactly.

Dana: 100%.

Craig: I’m Dad. I need to always be Dad. As long as you can keep me Dad, and let the actors have their beautiful aura of coolness.

Dana: As long as it’s clear that I am Ariana Grande or Cynthia Erivo’s nanny, then we’re fine. [laughter] I’m not up there to try to be like them. I do stare at them lovingly during all of the Q&As [crosstalk] and just tear up because they’re just so beautiful and lovely.

Craig: You’re so important to the movie, and John is so important to the movie and the editors and everybody. These events are entirely about the actors. I reiterate this, too. I’m trying to explain this. Because sometimes, especially when we do–

Dana: They do a lot of events where the actors are not there. These are more the craft ones, like the BAFTA.

Craig: Those are fun.

Dana: It’s about craft, and then they really do listen to what–

John: What’s so interesting about those roundtable-y things is that you are having genuine conversations, but you’re done up because you’re taking photos at the same time, and so you’re looking at stuff. I find if I get makeup for something, I feel it the rest of the day, my eyes get itchy, and I hate having it on. I have to scrub it all down.

Craig: What is that? Dana, why do our eyes get itchy?

Dana: It’s the powder in it. Do your eyes get itchy?

Craig: Yes.

John: Yes. From the–

Dana: You guys are allergic to something. You got to tell your makeup artists that they need to do sensitive skin stuff.

John: I think it’s just the powder that they use to keep my shiny head from–

Craig: I think it’s anti-bald powder. Because like John and I, our heads are bounce cards, basically. Whatever they use for that clearly makes your eyes itchy. Honestly, no man can complain about makeup. It’s just like–

Dana: Thank you for saying that, because I, as a woman, feel that I could have been president of the United States if I had not had to blow-dry my hair throughout my entire life, because that is how much time I would have gotten back. I could be the president right now.

Craig: Really, you should have been.

Dana: I mean, please.

John: Dana Fox for president. Once again, we’ve–

Dana: Solved it all.

John: We solved the problem.

Dana: We solved everything.

John: Dana, we love you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Craig: Thank you, Dana.

Dana: I love you both so much.

John: Bye.

Dana: Thank you. Bye.

Links:

• Dana Fox on Instagram and IMDb
• Wicked: For Good
• Graham Rowat
• Friendship
• Comfrt travel hoodie
• Sara Schaefer’s miniature cuck chairs
• Pittman Inflatable Camping Chair
• Inflatable Beanless Bean Bag Chair
• What the Cuck?! | Decoder Ring
• Wicked the book and the stage show
• The Fugitive (1993)
• Owl Labs’ Meeting Owl 3
• Eric Berlin – Puzzle Snacks
• The Most Important Question podcast
• Heating Pads
• VW ID Buzz
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription (now with fewer emails!)
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The post Scriptnotes, Episode 712: Something Wicked This Way Comes, Transcript first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig welcome back Dana Fox (Wicked, The Lost City) for a magical flight through everything that went into adapting Wicked and its upcoming sequel, Wicked: For Good. They look at the history of the project, why it was split into two movies, the process for writing when you’re shooting two movies at the same time, and the exhausting effort it takes for big movies to defy gravity.

We also chat with Graham Rowat, the narrator of the Scriptnotes audiobook, follow up on weird movies and cuck chairs, answer listener questions on the limits of torturing your heroes and ask, did the 90’s really have the best actions movies?

In our bonus segment for premium members, Dana sticks around to take us behind the scenes of a big movie’s promo circuit, and how to stay sane (and even popular!) throughout the world tour.

Links:

• Dana Fox on Instagram and IMDb
• Wicked: For Good
• Graham Rowat
• Friendship
• Comfrt travel hoodie
• Sara Schaefer’s miniature cuck chairs
• Pittman Inflatable Camping Chair
• Inflatable Beanless Bean Bag Chair
• What the Cuck?! | Decoder Ring
• Wicked the book and the stage show
• The Fugitive (1993)
• Owl Labs’ Meeting Owl 3
• Eric Berlin – Puzzle Snacks
• The Most Important Question podcast
• Heating Pads
• VW ID Buzz
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription (now with fewer emails!)
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 11-18-25: The transcript for this epsidoe can be found here.

The post Something Wicked This Way Comes first appeared on John August.

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John welcomes back Aline Brosh McKenna (Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, The Devil Wears Prada) to ask, what do executives expect from a pitch these days? They look at the typical structure of a pitch deck, how that differs from lookbooks, how pitches have evolved over the years, and best practices for pitching on Zoom.

Also, what happened to single-lady sitcoms? If you remember Monday nights in the 90’s, you know what we’re talking about. We reflect on what they did for the culture and how social media and reality TV may be taking their place.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Aline tells us what it was like being back on the set for The Devil Wears Prada 2. Gird your loins, people!

Links:

• Preorder the Scriptnotes book!
• Scriptnotes LIVE at Dynasty Typewriter in LA, November 30th! Only a few tickets left!
• Dick’s Sporting Goods Launches Entertainment Studio by Etan Vlessing for The Hollywood Reporter
• The Ladies of Monday Night
• I Love LA on HBO Max
• The Diplomat on Netflix
• Shotdeck
• Stranger Things pitch deck
• Paramount Makes Big Buy of Comedy Spec Script ‘Bald Eagles’ by Borys Kit for The Hollywood Reporter
• Big A## Calendar
• Rareform bags
• Aline and John talk about writing memorable endings on YouTube
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription (now with fewer emails!)
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Aline Brosh McKenna (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 11-14-25: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

The post The State of Pitching first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig look at all the pleasant, normal people around them and ask, what happened to the weirdos? They root out the causes of cultural stagnation, offer potential solutions, and explore the entertainment that still finds a way to be weird.

We also look at the tipping point between “wanting to write” and “actually writing,” follow up on printer prices and billboard queens, and answer listener questions on soundtracks, adapting a podcast and feeling ownership over your ideas.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we try to remember how we construct our personal narratives, and the pros and cons of remembering our past.

Our LIVE book release show will be at Dynasty Typewriter in LA on November 30th — get your tickets now!

Links:

• Scriptnotes LIVE! Book release show tickets at Dynasty Typewriter in LA
• The Uncool by Cameron Crowe
• Meet the Sisters Battling to Become L.A.’s New Billboard Queen by Mickey Rapkin for The Hollywood Reporter
• The Decline of Deviance by Adam Mastroianni
• Too Many Cooks
• Happiness (1998)
• Ken Russell
• Community tries to figure out if Nicholas Cage is good or bad
• Homecoming on Prime Video
• ChannelVue
• Servant of the Lake
• Some People Can’t See Mental Images. The Consequences Are Profound by Larissa MacFarquhar for The New Yorker
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription (now with fewer emails!)
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Jim Bond (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 11-13-25: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

The post What Happened To Weird? first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig return to Texas for their 11th show at the Austin Film Festival. They welcome writer Pamela Ribon (Nimona, My Year of Dicks) and showrunner Anthony Sparks (Queen Sugar, Bel-Air) to look at what makes character relationships compelling, and how to build a writing career later in life.

We also answer lister questions on getting un-stuck in a script, how podcasting has made us better writers, the limits of exposition, using AI for sizzle reels, and where we get the cajones selling a screenwriting book after slagging-off screenwriting books for fourteen years.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we invite two Scriptnotes super-fans up to the stage to compete for the ultimate prize: an early, signed copy of the Scriptnotes book.

Links:

• Pamela Ribon and Anthony Sparks
• Austin Film Festival
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Our Moneyball episode
• Enter the Relationship Matrix by Chris Csont
• Bring It On toothbrush scene
• STOMP
• Writer Emergency Pack
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription (now with fewer emails!)
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 11-12-25: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

The post Live at the Austin Film Festival 2025 first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig look at three tales of lies, betrayal and deceit and ask, How Would This be a Movie? Stories include a flamboyant show-business grifter, a sibling rivalry between two LA billboard queens, and American students tricked into attending a fake Oxford college.

We also follow up on audio dramas, last looks, and answer listener questions on a suspicious AI story and what do do with producers that are too keen.

In our bonus segment for premium members, how do you watch TV when you’re away from home, particularly overseas? We share the joys and frustrations of tuning in while you’re on the road.

Links:

• Preorder a signed copy of the Scriptnotes book!
• The Many Faces Of “Sir” Marco Robinson, The Man Who Grifted Aspiring Filmmakers With Claims About Being A “#2 Netflix” Producer by Jake Kanter for Deadline
• Trailer for Marco Robinson’s TV show Get a House for Free
• Meet the Sisters Battling to Become L.A.’s New Billboard Queen by Mickey Rapkin for The Hollywood Reporter
• Dynasty (1981)
• Rica Famosa Latina on YouTube
• Fake Oxford by Josh Levin for Slate
• Fawlty Towers and Father Ted
• ‘Run It Through GPT-5’: The Phrase Changing Hollywood Overnight by Erik Barmack for The Ankler
• Sydney, Australia
• Ghost of Yōtei
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription (now with fewer emails!)
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Jeff Ross (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 11-5-25: The transcript for this epsiode can be found here.

The post Ambition Meets Fabrication first appeared on John August.

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John welcomes writer and actress Nora Garrett to look at how her first screenplay, After the Hunt, took her from being un-repped to working with director Luca Guadagnino.

They discuss her path from acting to writing, how her script went from being rejected by screenplay competitions to landing on Julia Roberts’ desk, and how she constructed her complex power dynamics on the the page. They also answer listener questions on building tension and knowing when to tell rather than show.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Nora talk day jobs and how to balance focusing on your craft wi– shhh! The boss is coming, get back to work.

Links:

• Read along with our excerpts from After the Hunt
• Nora Garrett
• After the Hunt
• Episode 667 – The One with Justin Kuritzkes
• The Rehearsal
• Flesh World by Jessica DeFino
• Big Reader Bad Grades
• BenDeLaCreme on Good One
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The post After the Hunt first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig invite Aline Brosh McKenna back to celebrate the third anniversary of Scriptnotes. It’s a jam-packed, glass-and-a-half of wine, listener-favorite episode.

They look at ways to breathe new life into scenes and characters that aren’t working, box office journalism and how Hollywood is always dying, scene geography, and the role of emotional intelligence (or EQ) in a writer’s career.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we have original outtakes from the episode where we look at what changed in the world in our first three years on air, make predictions for what’s to come, re-invent Spanx, and of course talk about D&D.

Links:

• Going to the 2025 Austin Film Festival? Submit to our LIVE Three Page Challenge here!
• The original episode 161 and its transcript
• Aline Brosh McKenna on Instagram and IMDb
• Why do people throw tomatoes? from How Stuff Works
• The Knowledge
• Global Entry
• From 2014: Movies Have Worst Summer Since 1997 by Brooks Barnes
• Mimeographs on Wikipedia and eBay
• Maguire Watch on Everything is Terrible!
• Filthy Scriptnotes episodes The Angeles Crest Fiasco and The Dirty Show
• The Honourable Woman
• This Movie Will Require Dinosaurs by C. W. Neill
• N3TWORK
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Robert Hutchison (send us yours!)
• This episode was originally produced by Stuart Friedel. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig wonder, how has TV changed in the last ten years? They compare what’s better and worse, the tradeoffs between quality and quantity, how curation is changing, the pros and cons of shorter seasons, and what this all means for writers and viewers.

We also look forward to our time at the Austin Film Festival, offer paths for writers to keep their health insurance, follow up on Three Page Challenge selections that actually got made, and answer listener questions on adapting a screenplay into an audio drama and payment for work after a script is turned in.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig looks at what makes a damn fine cup of coffee.

Links:

• Going to the Austin Film Festival this year? Submit for our LIVE Three Page Challenge here!
• Entertainment Community Fund Services & Programs
• Signed editions of the Scriptnotes Book
• Destination: Earth audio drama
• Weekend Read
• Episode 163: Ghost
• WGA Showrunner Training Program
• Phantom Ink
• The House of Tesla
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig discuss short films: what makes a great short, when should you make one, and what should you realistically expect out of it? We also update our predictions on whether the career of “screenwriter” can survive potential global catastrophes.

We then answer listener questions on staff writer wages and using URLs in a script.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig talk intermissions and why more movies should have them.

Links:

• Remembering Sundance Institute Founder, Robert Redford
• John’s post on Robert Redford
• Digital Dungeons and Dragons Die
• Tally to vote for Scriptnotes Live Shows
• Scriptnotes Episode 334, Worst Case Scenarios, Transcript
• Maccy App
• DEVO Documentary on Netflix
• Megana Rao on Instagram and X
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Luke Davis (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Liz Hannah (The Post, The Girl from Plainville) to discuss how to construct and communicate setting in a script. They talk about the balance between establishing a sense of space while avoiding the beginner’s mistake of over-blocking.

We also follow up on accountability groups, last looks, and French composers. Then, we answer listener questions on revisions and getting your Hollywood Card revoked.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Liz consider how to explain screenwriting to your kids (and others).

LINKS:

• Bob The Musical has a Director!
• Download Weekend Read on the App Store
• Oxo Carbon Steel Pan
• Dehv Candle Company
• Apply for a student license for Highland Pro!
• Interested in being our new UI/UX designer? More info here!
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Liz Hannah on Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig ask, how do you keep your period films from being a boring history lesson? They offer ten tips to keep your setting from taking over your story, defining the scope of your research, and how to balance the reality of the era with what’s relevant to audiences today.

We also follow up on navigating industry connections and answer three period-appropriate listener questions on transitions across time, accurate dialogue, and how to handle historical sensitivities on the page.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig get into some toil and trouble as they give their rankings of the most iconic witches.

Links:

• Apply for a student license for Highland Pro!
• Interested in being our new UI/UX designer? More info here!
• Mel Gibson rant at Joe Eszterhas caught on tape by Ben Child for The Guardian
• Episode 129: The One with the Guys from Final Draft
• Episode 314: Unforgiven
• Episode 674: The One vvith Robert Eggers
• Marielle Heller’s Episode 212 and Episode 394
• Standard Thermal (And a summary by CEO Austin Vernon)
• Panthalassa
• The Concept C Is the All-Electric Sports Car Kick-Starting Audi’s Design Future by Jason Barlow for Wired
• Countdown on Amazon Prime Video
• Rank these iconic witches!
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Whit Morliss (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back producer Megana Rao, who has a question: how do you polish a script before sending it out? From obvious things like typos and title pages to tougher choices like cutting and transitions, they look at what to consider on a final pass so you can email your script with confidence.

Then it’s another round of the Three Page Challenge, where we look at three listener-submitted scripts to offer our honest feedback on what’s working and what could use another pass. We also follow-up on advice for general meetings.

In our bonus segment for premium members, what makes a great score? We look at the function of the soundtrack for feature films and how to work with composers.

Links:

• Follow along with our Three Page Challenge selections! The Thin Place – “Pilot” by Katie Seward, Sunset Paycheck by Holden Potter, and Levelling Up by Sylvia-Anne Parker
• Submit to the next Three Page Challenge
• Megana Rao on Instagram and X
• Fixed-do vs. movable do solfège
• How to Tell if Something is AI-Written by Hollis Robbins
• Mark Halpin 2025 Labor Day Extravaganza
• Pageant of the Masters
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by NIck Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig examine how to best use your connections to help yourself and others. They look at ways to identify the strength of a connection, leverage them without being manipulative, the nitty-gritty of approaching others for a favor, and the important ways to be generous in return.

We also look at the good news in the WGA’s 2025 Screen Compensation Guide, follow-up on creator pay through streaming services, and answer listener questions on how to tell if you’re improving something, and whether having kids changes our storytelling.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig piece together their feelings on modern LEGO sets.

Links:

• Scriptnotes Book is now on Goodreads!
• Scriptnotes 700 on YouTube
• Episode 645 with Meredith Scardino
• Vimeo on Demand
• Kanopy
• WGAw Screen Compensation Guide
• NYT Connections
• Pips
• 50 Things I Know by Cate Hall
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Scriptnotes on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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To celebrate our 700th episode, John and Craig open the phone lines for a live late-night call-in show (recorded at 10 a.m. on a Wednesday). Through the power of Zoom (and YouTube), listeners ask questions about rewrites in post, avoiding traps as a production designer, changing characters in a rewrite, and advice on leaving the entertainment industry.

We also welcome back familiar faces from Scriptnotes history for a brand-new segment, “People, Places and Things,” where we look at movie stills and ask how we might describe them on the page.

Also for debate, what is the boundary between “spoiler” and “what’s happening in culture”?

In our bonus segment for premium members, we keep the videophone lines open for more listener questions on juggling multiple projects, preparing alt lines for production, and whether studios option projects just to kill them.

You can (and should!) watch the entire episode on our YouTube channel. Just search for Scriptnotes Podcast. While you’re there, give us a Like and a Follow.

Links:

• Watch episode 700 on YouTube!
• Stuart Friedel, Megan McDonell, and Megana Rao
• Weapons
• The Hunting Wives on Netflix
• Vince Gilligan YouTube video
• Our Back to School collection on Weekend Read
• Play along with People, Places and Things: Woman one, woman two, man one, kid duo, oceanside, house, and city.
• Scriptnotes Episode 399: Notes on Notes
• Spike tape
• Bridge Base Online
• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Every writer has to pitch themselves, but how do you do it without sounding like a tool? John welcomes back Pamela Ribon (Nimona, My Year of Dicks) for a big talk about small talk and general meetings. They offer practical tips on what to expect, how to get people to open up, navigating NDAs, staying true to yourself, and organically moving the conversation away from the weather and towards your work.

We also look at a pernicious effect of underemployment (starting with a prompt from Ryan Knighton,) and answer listener questions on alternating POV, reusing adjectives, and giving your story beats cause and effect.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we get meta as we discuss the modern podcast landscape and next era of Scriptnotes.

Links:

• Scriptnotes Episode 700 – LIVE
• Pamela Ribon
• My Year of Dicks
• Rental Family trailer
• Japan’s Rent-A-Family Industry by Elif Batuman for The New Yorker
• 37 Seconds
• Good conversations have lots of doorknobs by Adam Mastroianni
• Real Time Lightning Map
• Students Engaged in Advancing Texas (SEAT)
• Who Is Watching All These Podcasts? by Joseph Bernstein for NYT
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig descend into development hell to look at films that almost but never quite existed. Using both widely-publicized and little-known examples, they examine common patterns that keep movies frozen in script form.

We also follow up on solar storms, writer education and genres people should see at least one of. We then answer listener questions on writing empathetically, late-career stamina, non-English dialogue, multi-part movies, and the Scriptnotes theme itself.

In our bonus segment for premium members, if John and Craig were never paid to write in the screenplay format again, would they still do it?

Links:

• Preorder the Scriptnotes Book!
• Birdigo on Steam
• Aurora by David Koepp
• Pale Flower
• Deep Red
• Suspiria
• Hands on a Hard Body
• American Movie
• Wonderland
• Hands on a Hardbody the musical
• Cure
• Pulse
• Moft magnetic wallet stand
• Total Party Skill podcast
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Steve Pietrowski (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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The Scriptnotes Book is real, and now available for preorder! John and Craig take a look through its 335 pages to explore the topics, guests and deep-dives we’ve assembled from over 1,000 hours of this podcast, creating what is sure to be your favorite bathroom book.

Then it’s another round of How Would This Be a Movie?, where we look at four stories in the news to see whether they’re ripe for adaptation. Stories include a mother taking on the revenge porn industry, a wife navigating her husband’s longtime crush, a government worker who was secretly recorded on a date, and the potential destruction of solar storms. We also answer a listener question on current filmmaking technology.

In our bonus segment for premium members, what is kindness? John and Craig talk through what sets this undervalued quality apart from niceness and other traits we mistake for kind.

Link:

• Preorder the Scriptnotes book!
• Send your pre-order receipt to Drew at ask@johnaugust.com
• A Mother’s Revenge as told to Christina Cauterucci for SLATE
• Charlotte Laws’ fight with Hunter Moore, the internet’s revenge porn king by Carole Cadwalladr for The Guardian
• Help! My Husband’s Manic Pixie Past Has Become a Full-Blown Threat to My Sanity, Dear Prudence column for SLATE
• SNL’s What’s That Name
• An Offhand Remark About Gold Bars, Secretly Recorded, Upended His Life by Lisa Friedman for NYTimes
• The Unseen Fury of Solar Storms by Henry Wismayer for Noema
• TRMNL
• Steve Ballmer: Developers
• The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Remastered
• Birdigo
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this compendium episode, John and Craig set their focus on directors — and how to work with them as a screenwriter. They look at the inner-workings of the writer-director relationship, etiquette on set, how to communicate notes from pre-production through post, and outline the qualities of the “perfect” director.

We also offer advice to a first time director, looking at how to prep a project, how to run a set, working with actors, and how to inspire a crew to make the best movie possible.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Drew joins John back in 2025 for advice about casting, and what to do when actors pass on your project.

Links:

• Episode 4 – Working with directors
• Episode 176 – Advice to a First-Time Director
• Scrappy
• HyperCard
• Mount Wilson Observatory
• John’s shorts God and The Remnants
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Segments produced by Stuart Friedel. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back Scott Frank (The Queen’s Gambit, Dept. Q) to offer their best advice to film students and the people who teach them. They look at ways to improve how we educate writers, and offer advice to an aspiring development executive.

We also look at the intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivations of characters in Scott’s new series, Dept. Q, follow up on the decline of sex in movies, and ask, what genres of movies should people see at least one of?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John, Craig and Scott take a broader view of education in America to see what they’ve learned and what they would change.

Links:

• Dept. Q on Netflix
• Scott Frank
• Scott’s last time on Scriptnotes, Episode 476: The Other Senses
• Everyone Is Beautiful And No One Is Horny by RS Benedict for Blood Knife
• Scriptnotes 639: Intrinsic Motivation
• Antimemetics: Why Some Ideas Resist Spreading by Nadia Asparouhova
• Elmore Leonard’s Perfect Pitch by Anthony Lane for The New Yorker
• Richard Price’s Street Life by Kevin Lozano for The New Yorker
• McDonald’s AI Hiring Bot Exposed Millions of Applicants’ Data to Hackers Who Tried the Password ‘123456’ by Andy Greenberg for Wired
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Dan Gregor and Doug Mand (Chip n’ Dale: Rescue Rangers, Pretty Smart) to ask, how do you revive a dead genre? Using their upcoming movie The Naked Gun, they look at why the spoof genre fell apart, the challenges of introducing it to a new generation, and why turning genre tropes into jokes will always resonate with an audience.

We also look at other genres they don’t make anymore, follow up on Dogma 25, and answer listener questions on complicated rewrites and whether or not to hire a publicist.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John, Doug and Dan look at the movies that Gen Z hasn’t seen (and whether they even need to).

Links:

• The Naked Gun in theaters August 1st!
• Dan Gregor and Doug Mand
• Doug and Dan’s last time on the show, Episode 548: Made for Streamers
• Bottoms and Dicks: The Musical
• Melodramas: Now, Voyager, It Ends with Us, Spencer
• Sexual thrillers: Body Heat, Jagged Edge, (Bonus: Altered States, Dead Ringers)
• You Must Remember Thins: Erotic 80s
• Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry
• Adult Romantic Dramas: The English Patient, Out of Africa, Past Lives, Materialists
• Mid-Budget Adventure Films: Romancing the Stone, The Lost City
• John’s Aladdin residuals
• Breakthrough cholesterol treatment can cut levels by 69% after one dose by Hatty Willmoth for BBC Science Focus
• One dose of experimental drug nearly wipes out stealthy cholesterol in ‘remarkable’ trial by Erika Edwards for NBC News
• The Pentagon Disinformation That Fueled America’s UFO Mythology by Joel Schectman and Aruna Viswanatha for WSJ
• Calvin Kang on Ingstagram
• Weekend Read 2
• Top movies that Gen Z have never watched revealed – including Oscar-winning classics from The Sun UK
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Ryan Gerberding (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig plant the idea for setups that have the most satisfying payoffs. Different from exposition, setups introduce ideas and concepts to an audience, priming them for a later revelation. They look at the sleight of hand required to have your setups deftly planted, take root in your audience’s mind, and grow into something delightful.

But first, we look at the new California tax credits, the 2025 WGA annual report, follow up on AI and VFX, postmodernism, and verticals. We also answer listener questions on music videos and outing yourself to potential employers.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig look at the New York Times’ new list of the 100 best movies of the 21st century. We all know Craig loves pitting movies against each other, so there’s definitely no umbrage here.

Links:

• The Best Movies of the 21st Century by NY Times
• California lawmakers approve expanded $750-million film tax credit program by Samantha Masunaga for LA Times
• WGA Annual Report – employment and earnings, residuals
• Michael Graves
• How ReelShort CEO Joey Jia Used a Chinese Trend to Disrupt the U.S. Entertainment Industry by Chad De Guzman for Time Magazine
• Sundance Labs
• Sabrina Carpenter – Manchild
• DJ Snake, Lil Jon – Turn Down for What
• Madonna – Vogue
• a-ha – Take On Me
• Riz Ahmed – The Long Goodbye
• Phil Collins – Don’t Lose My Number
• 30 minutes with a stranger by Alvin Chang for The Pudding
• Chris Perkins
• Mike Birbiglia’s top ten movies of the 21st century
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this craft compendium, John and Craig take a look at everything you need to make your bad guys compelling, memorable, and the perfect antagonist for your story. Using some favorite villains as examples, they look at the importance of understanding their motivations and offer seven tips for making a villain unforgettable.

We also take a look at lackeys, henchmen and making sure your evil organizations are believable.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig shift their focus to monsters, and why even though those scary creatures are dangerous, they’re not always the villain.

Links:

• Scriptnotes Episode 75 – Villains
• Scriptnotes Episode 590 – Anti-Villains
• Scriptnotes Episode 465 – The Lackeys Know What They’re Doing
• Scriptnotes Episode 257 – Flaws are Features
• Every Villain is a Hero
• Writing Better Bad Guys
• Screenwriting and the Problem of Evil
• Mama
• The 1000 Deaths of Wile E. Coyote by T.B.D.
• Why do good people do bad things? by Daniel Effron
• Why some people are willing to challenge behavior they see as wrong despite personal risk by Catherine A. Sanderson
• The Monsters Know What They’re Doing blog and book
• Austin Powers deleted scene, “Henchman’s Wife”
• Redshirt
• 7 Tips for Creating Unforgettable Villains
• How Christopher Nolan writes a movie on our YouTube!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Segments produced by Stuart Friedel, Megana Rao, and Drew Marquardt.
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome author Stu Horvath to look at the rich history of tabletop role playing games. From Stu’s collection of over 2300 RPGs, they look at the evolution of collaborative storytelling, interactive narrative design, and the communities of players they inspire.

We also discuss the complicated influences of J.R.R. Tolkien and H.P. Lovecraft on the world of D&D, and how the need to escape their derivative influences pushed RPGs to new heights of world-building and storytelling.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Stu leads us down down down to discuss a surprisingly recent narrative staple: dungeons.

Links:

• Monsters, Aliens, and Holes in the Ground by Stu Horvath
• VintageRPG.com by Stu Horvath
• D&D 5th Edition
• Amateur press association (APA)
• Little Wars by H.G. Wells
• Peter Cushing painting his minifigs
• Chainmail by Gary Gygax & Jeff Perren
• Chaosium
• Tunnels & Trolls
• Dread RPG
• Fiasco
• Scriptnotes episode 142: The Angeles Crest Fiasco
• Critical Role
• Alien: The Roleplaying Game
• Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game
• Traveller
• 2024 D&D Player’s Handbook
• Blackoath Entertainment
• Thousand Year Old Vampire
• Tales From the Loop RPG
• Honey Heist
• WWDC live translation
• She Used to Be Mine performance and vocal coach reaction
• Kolchak: The Night Stalker
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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How do you write science fiction when technology is moving so quickly? John and Craig welcome back journalist and screenwriter Max Read to look at the trickiness of predicting the future, how our imagined futures can affect our reality, and ways that writers can protect their work from becoming dated before it’s even released.

We also follow up on the new Dogma manifesto, words we don’t have in English, questioning ChatGPT, and answer listener questions on hosting your scripts on your website, offline writing software and how to find the time to goof around.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Max walks us through his Letterboxd lists and proposes a new, niche film genre.

Links:

• Max Read’s newsletter Read Max and his Letterboxd
• Dogma 25 Explodes at Cannes by Annika Pham, Marta Balaga for Variety
• Maze by Christopher Manson
• Blue Prince
• Graham’s source for Egypt’s GDP and John’s sources
• Neal Stephenson
• William Gibson
• Red Rooms
• This Strange Mutation Explains the Mystifying Color of Orange Cats by Gayoung Lee for Scientific American
• The Simulation is Failing. by Jessica Mazin
• r/OneOrangeBraincell
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Sam Shapson. It’s edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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New forms of video creation are coming to disrupt the entertainment industry, but will they succeed? John and Craig look at verticals and Veo 3 to see where we might be heading, and what our industry’s past innovations might tell us about about the future.

We also look at Memorial Day’s banner box office, and answer listener questions on bereavement during production, momentum, scene geography and how to fight motion smoothing.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig travel back in time to find which moments in history they wish they could see in person.

Links:

• Highland Pro student licenses!
• Collaborate on a tabletop RPG with John!
• Tom and Jerry and Hanna-Barbera
• Accidental Triplets with the Billionaire on Reel Short
• A Mistaken Surrogate for the Ruthless Billionaire on GoodShort
• WebToon
• Werewolf Billionaire CEO Husbands are Taking Over Hollywood by EJ Dickson for Rolling Stone
• Veo 3 fake news example by Alejandra Caraballo on Bluesky
• More Veo 3 examples by Promptastic on Bluesky
• Play Everyday Lotion SPF 50
• The Last of Us
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Steve Pietrowski (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Sam Shapson. It’s edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back writer, director, and comedian Mike Birbiglia (Don’t Think Twice, Sleepwalk with Me) to take a look at several true news stories and ask, how would this be a joke? Stories include run-club haters, a conflicted bone marrow donor, and the coyotes roaming San Francisco.

We also look at how Mike developed his new Netflix special, The Good Life, and answer listener questions on taking an idea from a podcast and knowing when you’ve broken a story.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Mike walks us through how he’s able to market his work without it feel like marketing.

Links:

• Mike Birbiglia
• The Good Life on Netflix
• Mike’s previous episodes: 121, 168, 261, 427, 443, and Working it Out: Screenwriting Advice You’ll Actually Use
• Episode 660 – Moneyball
• Ira Glass on Mike’s podcast Working it Out
• Elizabeth Gilbert TED Talk
• The Run Club Haters by Melissa Dahl for Curbed
• I Hadn’t Heard From My Dad in Over a Decade. Now He’s Returned With a Brazen Request. I’m Actually Considering It. from Slate’s Care and Feeding
• The Coyotes of San Francisco by Heather Knight and Loren Elliot for NY Times
• Coyote Vest
• Everybody’s Live with John Mulaney
• Chris Fleming
• Blue Prince
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription!
• Subscribe to Scriptnotes on YouTube
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Sam Shapson. It’s edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig dig through the mailbag to answer some of our trickiest listener questions. They lay out their best advice for first-time feature directors — from picking department heads to making sure your movie actually gets seen — and look at how to adapt Craig’s “How to Write a Movie” for structuring a TV series.

But that’s not all! Do you owe your writer’s group access to your contacts? How do you break out of the mailroom? Where should high-school students start? How far can adaptations stray from the source material? And how do you remain professional in the middle of a dumpster fire?

We also follow up on tariffs, mysterious birds, and a different set of 36 Questions.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we play John’s new game, Strong Opinions, where we all have to guess each other’s true feelings about things we didn’t know were controversial.

Links:

• Scriptnotes on YouTube!
• Strong Opinions game
• Hollywood Unions letter to President Trump
• The Curious Case of the Pygmy Nuthatch by Forrest Wickman
• Foggy Brume on Twitch
• 36 Questions, the podcast musical
• Austin Film Festival
• My First Movie: 20 Celebrated Directors Talk about Their First Film
• Orange T-shirts are back!
• Aqua voice dictation software
• Ghost Town by Fireproof Games
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Become a Scriptnotes Premium member, or gift a subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Sam Shapson. It’s edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at how writers and their characters handle the obstacles they encounter. They outline proven techniques for solving problems both in life and on the page, why it’s important to see characters solving problems in a story, and how taking big swings can open up exciting possibilities.

We also follow up on episodes that focus on a single character, long takes, making your phone less interesting, words we don’t have in English, present the definitive guide to the lunch run, and look into this stupid movie tariff thing.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John is back from Egypt and Jordan, and ready to answer all of our questions about tombs and travel in the Middle East.

Links:

• The Production Assistant’s Guide to the Lunch Run
• Indiana Jones and the Great Circle
• Note On Long Takes by Aidan Moretti
• Video tour inside the Great Pyramid of Giza
• Donald Trump Says He’s Pursuing 100% Tariffs On Movies Produced Outside U.S. and John Voight’s proposal
• Sustainability by the Numbers by Hannah Ritchie
• Solving for Climate
• The Mr. Rabbit Magic Show by Rusty Lake
• Birdigo
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer, director and playwright Leslye Headland (The Acolyte, Russian Doll) to ask, why are stage plays so challenging for screenwriters? Using her recent Broadway play Cult of Love, they look at different approaches to scene description, heightened and simultaneous dialogue, and strategies for adapting stage plays to film.

We also chart Leslye’s career from theater kid to auteur filmmaker, her approach to time loops (because how could we not?), and answer listener questions about music cues and long scripts.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Leslye compare notes on how to keep up with what’s on stage, and what to do if you missed a production.

Links:

• Leslye Headland
• Cult of Love – selected pages
• Bachelorette the play and the movie
• Fanny and Alexander
• John by Annie Baker
• Original Cast Album: Company
• Stephen Sondheim
• Waiting for Godot
• John Cassavetes
• Tár screenplay by Todd Field
• Arthur Aron’s 36 Questions
• Eva discloses her autism on Survivor
• Making Movies by Sidney Lumet
• On Filmmaking by Alexander McKendick
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Alicia Jo Rabins (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer and showrunner Eric Kripke (The Boys, Supernatural) to look at planning out a multi-season series. They chart Eric’s early career from shorts to showrunner, how he developed Supernatural, his process for structuring seasons of The Boys, and how great TV shows stick the landing.

We also answer listener questions on lone character episodes and emulating comic panels on screen.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Eric spills on everything blood, guts and gore.

Links:

• Eric Kripke on IMDb and Instagram
• The Boys
• Battle of the Sexes short film
• Minions on the Seine!
• Strange Darling
• The Lonely Island and Seth Meyers Podcast
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back Aline Brosh McKenna to tackle the issue of idea management. What do you do with all those half-formed ideas and how do you decide which ones to pursue? They share best practices and their approach to middle-of-the-night inspiration.

We also discuss how screenwriters’ quotes are determined and answer some listener questions on alternatives to D&D, crediting improv and rain in the second act.

In our bonus segment for premium members, DVDs hang in the balance as John and Drew sit down back in 2025 to ask, should Drew get rid of his physical media?

Links:

• Dungeon World
• Kids on Bikes
• Crazy, Rich Asians Pay Disparity
• Searching for Bobby Fischer
• After Dark My Sweet
• God (1998 short film)
• Reg Ex Crossword Puzzle
• Soothe Massage App
• Assassin’s Creed: Odyssey
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Victor Krause (send us yours!)
• This episode was originally produced by Megana Rao. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig break out of coverage to look at oners and long shots, cutting through any directorial showboating to compare the pros and cons and cons and cons of those unbroken takes, offering ways to decide when they are necessary or purposeful, and how to recognize when it’s better to cut.

We also look at changes to Sundance and the Nicholl Fellowship, answer listener questions on house lights in movie theaters, Oscar voting, improv movies, and share a few horror stories from John and Craig’s early career.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig look at their relationship with their phones and consider dumbing down.

Links:

• HBO’s The Last of Us Podcast
• Sundance is moving to Boulder, Colorado!
• Changes to the Academy Nicholl Fellowship
• Adolescence | The Studio
• Meryl Streep and Viola Davis in Doubt
• The Alien RPG by Free League
• Assassin’s Creed: Shadows
• The Show 25
• The DIY Dumbphone Method by Casey Johnston
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this episode from 2012, John and Craig sit down with producer and former studio executive Lindsay Doran (Sense and Sensibility, Stranger than Fiction) at the Austin Film Festival to explore the producer’s relationship with the screenplay.

The look at how the role of producer has changed, the ideal development process, how she developed Sense and Sensibility with Emma Thompson, and staying true to your values in a fickle business.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Drew joins John back in 2025 to consider the value of a good alumni program, and how an alma mater that under-delivers can be the pits.

Links:

• Lindsay Doran on IMDb
• The original episode transcript
• Perfectly Happy, Even Without Happy Endings by Carrie Rickey for the New York Times (including a great photo of Lindsay’s hair)
• Lindsay’s TEDx presentation: Saving the World vs Kissing the Girl
• Scriptnotes, Episode 17: What do producers do?
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• This episode was originally produced by Stuart Friedel. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome writer and showrunner Tony Gilroy (Andor, Michael Clayton) for an in-depth look at crafting a second season of a hit TV show. They look at ways to find your season’s structure, setting your production up for success, controlling the energy your audience spends on information, and how to wrap up your story before the show eats you alive.

They also answer listener questions on what to do when a movie that’s similar to yours is wildly successful, and whether being a movie critic could hurt your writing career.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Tony sticks around to ponder which words we wish existed in English, and how we’d use them in our scripts.

Links:

• Tony Gilroy
• Here’s a recap of Andor Season 1!
• Andor Season 2: Trailer 1 | Trailer 2 | Special Look
• Episode 680 – Writing Action Set Pieces with Christina Hodson
• I’m Not a Robot short by Victoria Warmerdam
• I’m Not a Robot short by Jason Speir
• Stephen Schiff
• Startpage
• A History of Rock Music in 500 Songs
• Raindrop
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig sit in project purgatory and ask, what do you do when the only answer you’re getting is “maybe”? They share advice on how to gently check in without annoying people, recognizing the soft pass, the unexpected benefits of patience, and what to do when you’re the person holding up the gears.

Then it’s another round of the Three Page Challenge, where John and Craig give their honest feedback on three listener-submitted scripts. We also follow up on script supervisors and the encroaching perils of AI production.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig spill the telltale signs that a movie or TV show has had reshoots.

Links:

• Follow along with our Three Page Challenge Selections! SCRAMBLING by Tania Luna, LUMP by Leah Newsom, and THE DREAD PIRATE ROBERTS by J. Bryan Dick
• The King of Tars
• Sesame Street
• The Goes Wrong Show on Prime
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Christina Hodson (The Flash, Bumblebee) to ask, how do you to construct a great action sequence? Using examples from three different movies, they discuss what good action looks like on the page, how to keep your reader from getting bored or confused, and why production can sometimes blow your plans to smithereens.

Then it’s a round of How Would This be a Movie?, where we take four stories from the news and pitch how we might adapt them for the screen. Stories include a mysterious painting, a train trapped in a blizzard, a teen who sued his parents, and zombie colleges.

We also follow up on director’s chairs and mammograms, and answer listener questions on side characters and creating a healthy work/life balance.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Christina examine the do’s and don’ts of introducing yourself to a stranger through email.

Links:

• Christina Hodson
• That New York Times article with John and Christina
• Bamboo Director’s Chair
• Birdigo on Steam
• Action samples: Aliens, The Bourne Identity and Rise of the Planet of the Apes
• David Koepp’s Jurassic Park screenplay
• David Benioff’s Troy screenplay
• A Man of Parts and Learning by Fara Dabhoiwala
• When a Deadly Winter Storm Trapped a Luxury Passenger Train Near the Donner Pass for Three Days by Robert Klara
• A U.K. Teen’s Parents Sent Him to Ghana. He Took Them to Court. by Lynsey Chutel
• Zombie colleges? These universities are living another life online, and no one can say why by Chris Quintana
• Mike Birbiglia
• The Onion in print
• Padraic Murphy’s Research Department
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Bluesky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Vance Kotrla (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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John welcomes back Liz Hannah (The Girl From Plainville, The Post) to ask, how do you know if a character can carry a story? They look at ways of identifying your protagonist, defining privileged storytelling power, and the choices to make when figuring out which characters can hold narrative point of view.

We also look a the phenomenon of the “Stranger in the Room,” follow up on writing during crazy times, brain trusts, plays vs movies, the phrase “begs the question,” and the usefulness of sharing your pronouns.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Liz explain the difference between East LA, West LA, and why the valley might beat them both.

Links:

• Liz Hannah on IMDb and Instagram
• Episode 676 – Writing while the World is on Fire
• Slate Culture Gabfest
• The Post | Screenplay
• Episode 128 – Frozen with Jennifer Lee
• Into the Unknown: Making Frozen 2 on Disney+
• Highland Pro
• The Girl From Plainville on Hulu
• The Dropout on Hulu
• “The Stranger in the Room” by @toddalcott on Threads
• Episode 399 – Notes on Notes
• Dragonsweeper by Daniel Benmergui
• Dare I Say It by Naomi Watts
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on BlueSky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome producer Dan Etheridge (iZombie, High Potential, Party Down) to look at how non-writing producers develop projects, coordinate across departments, and maintain the tone of the show as directors come and go.

We offer practical tips for making the most of video village, regardless of your role, and solutions for the scourge of directors chairs.

Highland Pro, John’s next generation screenwriting app is now available now for Mac, iPad and iPhone! We discuss what’s new and what’s coming next.

We also answer listener questions pitching multiple projects, writing on tablets and how to launch an app.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John, Craig and Dan look back on their experience officiating weddings, and offer advice for those about to marry people. Dan even officiated John’s wedding!

Links:

• Highland Pro | Download on the App Store
• Dan Etheridge on IMDb
• Buck Rodgers’ robot sidekick
• [The Tom Thumb locomotive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Thumb_(locomotive)
• Statpage and DuckDuckGo
• I Miss the Music from Curtains
• Curule
• Evercast
• Scripto
• Night Moves, Prime Cut, and Scarecrow
• Lorelei and the Laser Eyes on Steam
• Diplomacy
• Beneath the Moon and Long Dead Stars by Daniel Wallace
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on BlueSky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Richard Barrett (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig decipher mystery box shows, where the premise and audience experience involve solving the puzzle of what’s really happening. They look at strategies for revealing clues and information, being mindful of the audience’s expectations, and the importance of the emotional journey inside the labyrinth.

We also announce a new video game, discuss what we can learn by revisiting old projects, follow up on unlocked pages and home automation, and answer listener questions on live instruments, pulling story from D&D campaigns, and where to draw the line between INT. and EXT.

In our bonus segment for premium members, how do you set boundaries when you feel like you’re always supposed to be writing? That’s not rhetorical — we need help.

Links:

• Birdigo on Steam
• Lutron HomeWorks and Home Assistant
• The Prisoner (1967)
• Scriptnotes, Ep 296: Television with Damon Lindelof
• Patrick Wilson, Jordan Donica Leading Industry Reading of Revised, Broadway-Aimed Big Fish on Playbill.com
• Falling Slowly scene in Once
• Life and Trust
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on BlueSky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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How do you keep doing creative work when the world is falling apart around you? To sift through the despair and doubt, John welcomes back legendary Scriptnotes guest, writer-turned-psychotherapist Dennis Palumbo. They discuss the many feelings that catastrophic events can bring up in artists, the personal narratives that often inform those feelings, and how to keep moving forward when you feel like the band on the Titanic.

We also follow up on AI, and answer listener questions on competing with brain trusts and how to support a friend embroiled in controversy.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Dennis guides us through the best examples and worst mistakes of portraying therapists on screen.

Links:

• “Am I Just Fiddling While Rome Burns?” by Dennis Palumbo for Psychiatric Times
• Scriptnotes 99 – Psychotherapy for Screenwriters
• ShotDeck
• River Runner Global
• At the Existentialist Café by Sarah Bakewell
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on BlueSky, Threads, and Instagram
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Craig welcomes writer and showrunner Joshua Zetumer, creator of the limited series Say Nothing, to explore the process of dramatizing real events — particularly when the subject matter can be volatile. They discuss how to keep a sprawling historical epic from feeling like a lecture, keeping a consistent tone, humanizing complicated people, and how not to get sued by the people who were really involved.

They also answer listener questions on following up with people after the fires, charting the emotional journey of the audience, and whether writers need to cite their sources when writing about real events.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Craig and Joshua pretend to be civil engineers and ask, how can we make Los Angeles function better?

Links:

• Say Nothing
• Joshua Zetumer
• Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland by Patrick Radden Keefe
• Difficult Men by Brett Martin
• Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on BlueSky, Threads, Instagram, and Mastodon
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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Hearken well! John sitteth in discourse with the learned Robert Eggers, weaver of dreadsome visions (The Witch, The Lighthouse), whose latest labour bringeth forth Nosferatu from the mistes of antiquity. Together, they dost unravel the craft of breathing newe life into the ghastly count of olde, how Robert didst hone his vision through toil and cunning in his firste labours, and the summoning of terror moste unholy upon the silver’d screen.

We do also taketh to hand the queries of our faithful listeners on the perils of o’ermuch detail in one’s scribings, on what may be done when one doth feel oneself a dullard, and whether those who spin tales be ill-fitted for matters of courtship and love.

In our boon segment for those of premium patronage, Robert doth speak of his fervent love for the wheeled steed and pursuits beyond the shaping of moving pictures.

Links:

• Robert Eggers
• Nosferatu | Screenplay
• Robert Eggers’ shorts Hansel and Gretel and The Tell-Tale Heart
• The Girl with the Needle
• Making School Cafeteria Pizza from the 1980s & ‘90s
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on BlueSky, Threads, Instagram, and Mastodon
• Outro by Guy Fee (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help this week from Zoe Black, and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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John and Craig explore character agency in everything from scenes to entire series. They look at what agency looks like on the page, which characters should have agency, and what to do when you feel your characters sleepwalking through the plot.

We also strategize ways to move forward after the recent US election, and answer listener questions on writing sign language, screenwriting software for the blind, and how writing credits work when your TV series gets turned into a movie.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig escape to a world where where the story is always on rails — Disneyland!

Links:

• Scriptnotes LIVE! December 6th at Dynasty Typewriter
• Even Under Trump, California (Yes, That Hellscape) Will Keep Moving the World Forward by James Fallows for WIRED
• The Great Big Book of Horrible Things: The Definitive Chronicle of History’s 100 Worst Atrocities by Matthew White
• And Yet It Moves by Ken White
• Martha on Netflix
• Replacement ear pads for Sony MDR-7506 headphones
• The Quantum Geometry That Exists Outside of Space and Time by Charlie Wood for WIRED
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt, and is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at how writers (and other humans) handle the anxiety of uncertainty, from election nights to green lights. We’ll talk through strategies for navigating situations where your circle of concern doesn’t match your circle of control.

Then we travel back to the 1980s and 90s, when many studios were run by ambitious strivers in their late 20s and early 30s. As the decades have passed, the players in these positions have held onto their posts, leaving the next generation stuck mid-ladder. We discuss what impact the aging of Hollywood has had on its output, and where the new guard might find an opening.

We also ask, is development wage theft? And answer listener questions on reusing material written for a different project, and the cost-plus model of production.

And in our bonus topic for premium members, what aspects of pandemic life have we incorporated into our daily routines?

Links:

• Scriptnotes LIVE! December 6th at Dynasty Typewriter
• AlphaBirds Game Night at Village Well
• The Big Squeeze: Why Everyone in Hollywood Feels Stuck by Mia Gallupo for the Hollywood Reporter
• ‘Development is Wage Theft’: Pilot Season Death Morphs Into Year-Round Hell by Elaine Low for The Ankler
• Isle of Arrows
• Rejection by Tony Tulathimutte
• Mr. McMahon on Netflix
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt, with special help this week from Chris Csont and Megana Rao. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig make their triumphant return to the Austin Film Festival for a wild night full of Emmy winning writers. They welcome Shōgun co-creators Rachel Kondo & Justin Marks to look at their process for structuring a series-long adaptation, keeping translations eloquent and accurate, and writing together as a married couple.

We then welcome Susan Soon He Stanton (Succession, Dead Ringers) and Megan Amram (The Good Place, Pitch Perfect: Bumper in Berlin) to discuss staffing on shows and crafting jokes. We also invite two audience members to play a new game: IMDB Sweeney Todd.

In our bonus segment for premium members, the panel answers audience questions on adaptations, a crossover with Succession and The Good Place, entering Hollywood from outside the U.S., and navigating Hollywood’s current contraction.

Links:

• Austin Film Festival
• Scriptnotes LIVE! December 6th at Dynasty Typewriter
• Rachel Kondo and Justin Marks
• Megan Amram
• Susan Soon He Stanton
• Decoder Ring – “The Wrongest Bird in Movie History”
• Vote Out Ted Cruz
• Brick App
• r/TVTooHigh
• Bliss Lau
• A Dream of Islands by Gavan Daws
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt, with special help this week from Chris Csont and Megana Rao. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig answer twenty listener questions on craft, career, and the future of the industry.

Questions include: How do you correct well wishes you haven’t earned? What kind of relationship should you have with the person who created your source material? How do you keep your reps invested? What’s going on with that Stereophonic lawsuit? And are writers retreats helpful or a total waste of time?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig celebrate the new D&D Player’s Handbook by looking back through every edition since 1978. Like the handbook, it gets less dense as it goes.

Links:

• Scriptnotes LIVE! at Austin Film Festival
• Drew’s Emmy certificate
• Why AI Isn’t Going to Make Art by Ted Chiang for The New Yorker
• The Stereophonic Lawsuit
• Rachel Bloom’s “Death, Let Me Do My Special” on Netflix
• Warner Bros. Studios Burbank
• Save Scarecrow Video in Seattle
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Why is screenwriting so difficult, even for the smartest people? John and Craig look at the relationship between intelligence and wisdom, the kinds of problems writers attempt to solve, and the unmeasurable skills that screenwriters need to succeed.

Then it’s another round of the Three Page Challenge, where they give their honest feedback on three listener-submitted scripts. We also follow up on Moneyball, green envelopes, shorts, script coordinating, and what Craig means by writers being “calculating.”

In our bonus segment for premium members, how do you talk about movies and TV shows without spoiling them? John and Craig reason out how to dance around the twist that the two leads are actually the same perso– oh, shoot!

Links:

• Quote-Unquote Marketing Director – Apply Here!
• Veteran Script Coordinator on YouTube
• Why aren’t smart people happier? by Adam Mastroianni
• Middle Aged Man – SNL
• FLUNGE by J Wheeler White, COWS by John and Mark DiStefano, and NEVER DIE ALONE by Yeong-Jay Lee
• The Cutting Edge
• Strange Darling
• My Old Ass
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back Taffy Brodesser-Akner (Fleishman is in Trouble) for a deep dive on 2011’s sports drama Moneyball.

What makes Moneyball work? Is it a traditional underdog movie, or does it break all the rules? Is Billy Beane a hero or a villain? What advantages do sports movies give you, and how much do you have to explain to your audience? How are movies like this developed? And how can you not be romantic about baseball?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John, Craig and Taffy dig further into the ways money is used to determine a person’s value.

Links:

• Moneyball on IMDb
• Moneyball screenplay
• Taffy Brodesser-Akner
• Long Island Compromise by Taffy Brodesser-Akner
• Scriptnotes LIVE! at the Austin Film Festival
• Highland Pro Austin launch party – sign up here!
• ABBA Voyage
• Opti-V fireplace
• Ken Medlock
• Imprint App
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig are on opposite sides of the world this week, so they’re revisiting an episode from 2016 to look at the many psychological barriers facing writers tackling big projects, and offer practical strategies for actually getting the work done.

They also discuss the then-upcoming election (same as it ever was), and answer a listener question about how autism spectrum disorder might impact a screenwriting career.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Drew reflect on what’s changed in the eight years since this episode last aired, and then like all conversations in 2024, they just start talking about Moo Deng.

Links:

• Episode 271: Buckling Down – Transcript
• Inevitable Foundation
• Forest, Snowstorm and Howling Wind ambiance tracks
• Julia Roberts To Star In Feature Film About PTA Mom Framed For Drug Possession by Nellie Andreeva for Deadline
• Here’s How to Finish That F*ing Book, You Monster by Chuck Wendig
• Wikitravel
• The Writers Guild Foundation
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Pedro Aguilera (send us yours!)
• This episode was originally produced by Godwin Jabangwe. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

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You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Marielle Heller (Can You Ever Forgive Me?, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood) to look at three stories of real people with too much money and ask, How Would This Be a Movie? Stories include strategies for dating Leonardo DiCaprio, the rise-fall-rise of inventor Palmer Luckey, and a council built to give away a fortune.

We also go feral over Marielle’s new movie Nightbitch, as she shares the joys of adapting something that feels personal and her tricks to directing dogs and children. But first, we take a look at a new study on which movies studios are developing, and share exciting news for those joining us at the Austin Film Festival.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Marielle and John remember the terror, nerves and euphoria of premiering your movie at film festivals.

Links:

• Nightbitch | Official Trailer
• Marielle Heller
• Highland Pro Austin launch party – sign up here!
• MacGruber on Peacock
• Hollywood’s 10 Percent Problem by Matt Belloni at Puck
• Dating a Celebrity – Thread by bo.predko
• American Vulcan by Jeremy Stern for Tablet
• How to Give Away a Fortune by Joshua Yaffa for The New Yorker
• You Get to Be Fulfilled Now by Teresa Jusino
• Bird Milk & Mosquito Bones by Priyanka Mattoo
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Spencer Lackey (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig revisit their legendary conversation with screenwriter-turned-psychotherapist Dennis Palumbo to discuss writer’s block, procrastination, partnerships and more. It’s a can’t-miss episode for aspiring writers and professionals alike.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we travel back to episode 425 where John and Craig debate when to practice self care or tough love, and how to evaluate when each of them are helpful.

Links:

• Dennis Palumbo
• Written by Magazine
• Dennis’s books on Goodreads
• Impostor Syndrome on Wikipedia
• The Imposter
• Paper Karma helps you control your mailbox
• The Secret in Their Eyes
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Stuart Friedel (send us yours!)
• This episode was originally produced by Stuart Friedel. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The original transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig open the mailbag to answer a swath of listener questions that make Craig’s blood boil. They offer insights and umbrage on when you can turn down projects early in your career, picking the right day job, maintaining visibility when you’re taken off a project, the next steps after a successful short, when NDA’s are necessary, and how to credit unpublished source material.

We also say goodbye to green envelopes as we celebrate the arrival of direct deposit residuals, and follow up on AI training and GitHub for screenplays.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig abandon their superciliousness look at the English words they kind of know but are too chicken to actually ever use.

Links:

• Move Over Green Envelopes, WGA Rolls Out Direct Deposits For Residuals by Peter White for Deadline
• WGA Screen Credits Manual
• CDC Recommends Updated 2024-2025 COVID-19 and Flu Vaccines for Fall/Winter Virus Season
• Hide posts on Threads
• Baldur’s Gate 3
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back Ryan Reynolds for an in-depth look at his creative process bringing the character of Deadpool to the screen.

As co-writer, producer and star of the Deadpool franchise, Ryan leads us through his first introduction to the character, the rough journey getting to greenlight, and the challenges presented by an often-faceless protagonist. Along the way, they talk tone and dialogue, collaboration and rule-breaking, respect and irreverence, and the importance of listening to the movie. Ryan also has some writing questions for John and Craig.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we look at Ryan’s flair for marketing and the creative freedom he’s found in advertising.

Links:

• Ryan Reynolds on Instagram, TikTok and X
• Deadpool & Wolverine
• He’s So Annoying by Jesse David Fox for Vulture
• Buster Keaton – The Art of the Gag by Every Frame a Painting
• TCM – Turner Classic Movies
• Ryan Reynolds Guest Programmer | TCM via YouTube
• How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral by Nilay Patel for The Verge
• Vancouver, BC
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Tim Englehard (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes journalist/screenwriter Max Read to look at the emerging sub-genre “halogencore” – stories of corporate malfeasance that are less about uncovering corruption as they are about characters learning to ignore it. They look at the evolution of the sub-genre, how these movies function, and why it’s important to define genres at all.

We also explore the current state of independent journalism and freelance writing, and follow up on Hallmark movies and playwrights turned screenwriters.

The new Highland (including support for iOS) is now in beta — Sign up in the link below!

In our bonus segment for premium members, does it feel like time has sped up this summer? Like, even more than usual? John and Max slow it down and find the silver linings of an accelerated world.

Links:

• Beta test the new Highland – sign up here!
• Max Read’s newsletter READ MAX
• Shiva Baby and Good Luck to You, Leo Grande
• How many Hallmark Christmas movies are there?! by Stephen Follows
• The Read Max ‘Halogencore’ Guide
• Max Read’s Halogencore list on Letterboxd
• Where Are You Now? by Sara Schaefer
• Billy Strings – Dust in a Baggie
• In Ascension by Martin MacInnes
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Tim Brown (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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In this compendium episode, John and Craig look at two of the most fundamental building blocks of compelling stories – conflict and stakes.

We define six forms of conflict common in movies, and explore ways to sustain conflict within a scene and throughout a story. We also look for ways to find the root of your character’s stakes, pick the right stakes for the world around them, and the importance of making everything personal.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig look at Whiplash and how it finds conflict at the perfect tempo.

Links:

• John’s Video Game Job Posting
• Episode 179 – The Conflict Episode
• Episode 402 – How Do You Like Your Stakes?
• Snowpiercer – Left or Right by Every Frame a Painting on YouTube
• Star Trek: The Next Generation In 40 Hours by Max Temkin
• Harris’ or Harris’s? Apostrophe row divides grammar nerds from The Guardian
• The Heights Deli & Bottle Shop
• Cheerios Veggie Blends
• Special K Zero
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Tim Brown (send us yours!)
• Segments originally produced by Stuart Friedel and Megana Rao. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this compendium episode, John and Craig look at two of the most fundamental building blocks of compelling stories – conflict and stakes.

We define six forms of conflict common in movies, and explore ways to sustain conflict within a scene and throughout a story. We also look for ways to find the root of your character’s stakes, pick the right stakes for the world around them, and the importance of making everything personal.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig look at Whiplash and how it finds conflict at the perfect tempo.

Links:

• John’s Video Game Job Posting
• Episode 179 – The Conflict Episode
• Episode 402 – How Do You Like Your Stakes?
• Snowpiercer – Left or Right by Every Frame a Painting on YouTube
• Star Trek: The Next Generation In 40 Hours by Max Temkin
• Harris’ or Harris’s? Apostrophe row divides grammar nerds from The Guardian
• The Heights Deli & Bottle Shop
• Cheerios Veggie Blends
• Special K Zero
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Tim Brown (send us yours!)
• Segments originally produced by Stuart Friedel and Megana Rao. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig stand waist-deep in rotten tomatoes and ask, what can we learn from bad movies? Resisting the urge to walk out, they explore ways to evaluate a movie’s problems, interrogate your taste, and turn a real stinker into an opportunity to grow as a writer.

We also follow up on Lifetime movies, colored pages and AI screenwriting, and answer listener questions on weirdo characters and the validity of a ghostwriter.

In our bonus segment for premium members, when is it okay to bail on something you no longer enjoy? We look at when to bounce on books, friendships and more.

Links:

• WGAW Good and Welfare Emergency Assistance Loans
• AI Screenwriter job posting
• Pageant of the Masters
• Pageant of the Masters Brings Art to Life from the Wall Street Journal on YouTube
• Arrested Development – The Living Classics
• Severance on Apple TV+
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, Twitter and Mastodon
• Outro by Pascui Rivas (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer-director Betsy Thomas (Superior Donuts, Superstore) to finally discuss writing multi-camera sitcoms. Using famous sitcom scripts as guides, they look at how multi-cam sets itself apart through its unique formatting and production, how it utilizes blocking, its surprising limitations in post, and the live studio audience.

But Betsy is more than just a talented creative – she’s also the secretary-treasurer of the WGA West. Who better to lead us through the WGA annual report and look at writer income and residuals in the wake of the strike? We also follow up on gains for writing teams and un-locked pages, and answer listener questions on flashbacks, punctation, and untrustworthy producers.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Betsy explains to John and Megana what makes golf such a wonderful sport.

Links:

• Betsy Thomas on Wikipedia and IMDb
• Megana Rao on Twitter and IMDb
• WGA West Annual Report
• Writer Earnings Fell $600 Million Due to Strike and Industry Contraction, WGA Says by Gene Maddus for Variety
• Cheers – “Give Me a Ring Sometime” by Glen and Les Charles
• Cheers – “Father Knows Last”
• Night Court – “Pilot” by Dan Rubin
• Friends – “Pilot” by David Crane & Marta Kauffman
• What My Adult Autism Diagnosis Finally Explained by Mary HK Choi for The Cut
• Unstable – Season 2 on Netflix (hooray Megana Rao!)
• Wicked Little Letters on Netflix
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, X and Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt, with help this week by Megana Rao. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back Megana Rao to look at rituals and what they can tell us about our characters. But what are characters doing deliberately, and what is just routine? They separate routines from rites, and how both can help deepen our understanding of characters and the threats that face them.

We also follow up on un-locking pages, industry software and health insurance for writing teams, before answering a listener question on transitioning from writing plays to writing movies.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John, Craig and Megana talk about coming-of-age rituals, and Craig reveals the theme of his Bar Mitzvah (it’s even nerdier than you think).

Links:

• Standard Operating Procedures from Writer Emergency Pack
• Long Island Compromise by Taffy Brodesser-Akner
• Free AF non-alcoholic cocktails
• Microsoft Re-Designs the iPod Packaging
• Fantasmas on HBO/Max
• AlphaBirds
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, X and Mastodon
• Outro by Nick Moore (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help this week by Megana Rao. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig finally become writing partners and edit the opening to one chapter of the upcoming Scriptnotes book live on-air. They wrestle with word choices, adapting the phrasing of a spoken conversation and finding a unified voice as they pass the keyboard back and forth.

We also catch up Craig on what he’s missed since he’s been away, follow up on #payuphollywood, and answer a host of listener questions on personal stories, backstories, sharing credit, Lifetime movies, and disliking your protagonist.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig deal out their favorite card games.

Links:

• AlphaBirds

• PayUpHollywood

• Scriptnotes Episode 427 – The New One with Mike Birbiglia and Scriptnotes Episode 640 – Can You Believe It?
• A.I. Needs Copper. It Just Helped to Find Millions of Tons of It. by Max Bearak for the New York Times
• Love Good Protein
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, X and Mastodon
• Outro by Tim Englehard (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig finally become writing partners and edit the opening to one chapter of the upcoming Scriptnotes book live on-air. They wrestle with word choices, adapting the phrasing of a spoken conversation and finding a unified voice as they pass the keyboard back and forth.

We also catch up Craig on what he’s missed since he’s been away, follow up on #payuphollywood, and answer a host of listener questions on personal stories, backstories, sharing credit, Lifetime movies, and disliking your protagonist.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig deal out their favorite card games.

Links:

• AlphaBirds

• PayUpHollywood

• Scriptnotes Episode 427 – The New One with Mike Birbiglia and Scriptnotes Episode 640 – Can You Believe It?
• A.I. Needs Copper. It Just Helped to Find Millions of Tons of It. by Max Bearak for the New York Times
• Love Good Protein
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram, X and Mastodon
• Outro by Tim Englehard (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Mike Schur (The Good Place, Parks and Recreation) to ask, how do you fix an overwritten script? They discuss ways to rebuild scenes and restore muddy characters that have become burdened by too many notes, all while making sure your script retains its voice.

We also look at the new IATSE deal with the AMPTP, the WGA’s back-pay settlement with CBS, Skydance purchasing Paramount, and follow-up on our idea of keeping pages un-locked.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Mike listen to the AI generated songs named in the RIAA’s current lawsuit and wonder, did they really steal from copyrighted material? (The answer is yes.)

Links:

• Mike Schur on Wikipedia
• Weekend Read 2
• IATSE tentative basic agreement
• David Ellison’s Skydance Taking Over Paramount After $8 Billion Investment by Dade Hayes for Deadline
• WGA West Reaches $3 Million Settlement With CBS Studios Over Writer Fees and Benefit Payments by Cynthia Littleton for Variety
• Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir
• Alphabirds
• Should We Go Extinct? by Todd May
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Vance Lovett (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Jonathan Wigdortz. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

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You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome Aline Brosh McKenna to look at what writers mean by a “voice,” and how it develops.

Some screenwriters’ voice develops long before their craft, leading people to label them as “promising” even though the scripts themselves are a mess. Other writers get all the technical stuff right from the start, but have a hard time finding something distinctive about how they write.

From there, we segue into one of the most contentious Three Page Challenges we’ve ever done, with wildly split opinions.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John the Eagle Scout gives Drew practical advice for wilderness camping in 2024.

Links:

• Aline Brosh McKenna on Instagram
• Spy Magazine
• Recitative on Wikipedia
• Three pages by James Topham
• Three pages by Cheryl Laughlin
• Three pages by Chris Vieira
• Submit for the Three Page Challenge
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilleli (send us yours!)
• This episode was originally produced by Stuart Friedel. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes Simon Rich (Man Seeking Woman, Miracle Workers) to look at how he crafts a comedic premise. Using his work on SNL, his time writing Inside Out at Pixar and his plethora of short stories, they look at how he develops a funny idea into a story with narrative and emotional punch.

We also follow up on the Harry Potter TV series, and answer listener questions on the downsides of writing in other mediums and adapting your screenplay into a novel.

In our bonus segment for premium members, how do you get your work into magazines? Simon walks through his experience, from rejection letters to being published in the New Yorker.

Links:

• Glory Days by Simon Rich
• “Gifted” by Simon Rich
• Rocket Dog sketch
• Howtown with Joss Fong and Adam Cole
• Dr. Eckener’s Dream Machine: The Great Zeppelin and the Dawn of Air Travel by Douglas Botting
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Eric Pearson (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Jonathan Wigdortz. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Aline Brosh McKenna to help figure out how to say goodbye… in your story. Using examples from some of their favorite movies, they explore how farewell scenes work, what sets them apart from the average see-you-later, and leaving a lasting effect on your characters and the audience.

We also look at the summer box office, George Gallo’s Bad Boys lawsuit, Sony’s purchase of Alamo Drafthouse, and answer listener questions on bad ex-managers, second steps, NDA’s, fairies, and how to take advantage of downtime in LA.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Aline discuss journaling. Should we be keeping track of what we’ve been doing all day?

Links:

• ‘Bad Boys’ Settlement by Dominic Patten for Deadline
• Why did Sony buy Alamo Drafthouse — and is it actually a good thing? by Ryan Faughnder for LA Times
• The Nine Enneagram Type Descriptions
• Farewell – Casablanca
• Farewell – Past Lives
• Farewell – Lost in Translation
• Farewell – Weekend
• Farewell – Philadelphia
• Farewell – The Shawshank Redemption
• Farewell – Harold and Maude
• Farewell – Terminator 2
• Farewell – The Way We Were
• Farewell – The Wizard of Oz
• Farewell – E.T.
• Farewell – Toy Story 3
• Farewell – Dead Poets Society
• Revival Hub LA
• Visit Malta
• Peel off lip stain
• Dirt Man by Carter Vail, and some of Aline’s favorite remixes, via TikTok
• Phil Collins’ Houdini
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Eric Pearson (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Jonathan Wigdortz. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this compendium episode, John and Craig fast-forward to the third act to talk about endings. How do they work? What makes them great? And how do you fix them when they’re not working?

They look at how to connect your ending to your characters, crafting a twist that surprises (but doesn’t confuse), the function of the climax, the importance of the denouement, and how to make it all satisfying for your audience.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Drew welcome back Megana Rao to ask: do we still need reunions in the age of social media?

Links:

• Episode 44 – Endings for beginners
• Episode 170 – Lotteries, lightning strikes and twist endings
• Episode 366 – Tying Things Up
• Episode 392 – The Final Moment
• Episode 524 – The Home Stretch
• Too Many Cooks
• America’s best decade, according to data by Andrew Van Dam for The Washington Post
• All Fours by Miranda July
• Callipeg
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Segments originally produced by Stuart Friedel, Megan McDonnell and Megana Rao. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig decode the current state of software in the film and television industry. With dozens of programs needed for every project, they look at why bad and outdated programs continue to have a hold on the industry, why it’s so hard to build something better, and how these programs find financial success in such a small and specialized market.

Then it’s another round of the Three Page Challenge, where they give their honest feedback on three listener-submitted scripts. They offer insights into quickly establishing information, those scenes that can be written but not filmed, the tricky dynamics of a meet-cute, and why broad comedy demands logic.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig explore the exciting possibilities that comes from playing D&D campaigns with no magic and other strict constraints.

Links:

• Follow along with our Three Page Challenge Selections: PLANET B by Christopher James, THE LONG HAUL by Becca Hurd, and THE RIGHT TO PARTY by Lucas McCutchen
• Submit your script for our Three Page Challenge!
• David Zucker’s 15 Rules of Comedy
• Space Cadet (2024)
• Movie Magic Scheduling
• Scenechronize
• PIX
• Qtake
• BOX
• Frame.io
• Evercast
• Scripto
• Fuzzlecheck
• Ripley on Netflix
• Watchmen – “This Extraordinary Being”
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Eric Pearson (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Jonathan Wigdortz. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes Meredith Scardino (Girls5eva) and Jen Statsky (Hacks) to discuss the highs and lows of writing the third season of a hit comedy. But how do you push a series forward without violating the premise or retreading familiar terrain? Are the shows still the shows they pitched? How has streaming changed since their shows first went on the air? And how do you plan for your series’ future?

They also answer listener questions on non-binary characters, past tense emotions in action lines, and how to make the most of a mentorship.

In our bonus segment for premium members: Two years ago John sent a letter to Jen with his predictions for what would happen in the third season of Hacks. That letter has remained sealed until now. Were John’s predictions correct, close, or way off the mark?

Links:

• Meredith Scardino on Instagram
• Jen Statsky on Instagram
• Girls5eva on Netflix
• Hacks on Max
• Chris Fleming
• Chris Fleming: HELL on Peacock
• Hannah Einbinder: Everything Must Go on Max
• Stouchi iPhone Camera Mount
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Rodger Corser (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig explore one of the most powerful and versatile tools in episodic television: the cold open. But how does it work? What kind of scenes does it showcase best? How can it play with point of view, perspective and time? What makes it memorable? And how do you make it work for your story?

We also discuss new requirements for loan-out corporations, follow up on streaming ads and AI-generated coverage, and answer listener questions on titles, exposition and disabled representation.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig check out OpenAI’s flirty new chat capabilities and ask, do they have any love for talking to human-like AI’s?

Links:

• Scriptnotes hats and drinkware!
• John jumps out of a plane on Instagram
• Corporate Transparency Act: An Overview of Impending Reporting Obligations
• MoviePass, MovieCrash | Official Trailer from HBO
• The Film Fund and the Reddit thread
• LOST – Desmond in the Hatch
• Suwada Nail Clippers
• Song Exploder – Madonna’s “Hung Up”
• The Ladder by Hatch Escapes
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Eric Pearson (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John joins Mike Birbiglia on his podcast Working It Out to share direct, practical screenwriting advice that you’ll actually use, whether you’re an aspiring screenwriter or you want to pursue creative work of any kind.

They explore John’s screenwriting process, from defining his expression “breaking the back of the script,” through the different forms of conflict and navigating the murky middle of the story. John shares the best writing advice he’s ever received, the screenplays everyone should read, what he appreciates in standup specials and why cool people aren’t funny. They also revisit the gains made on AI as a result of the writers strike.

Links:

• Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out
• Watch this episode of Working It Out on YouTube
• See Mike Birbiglia Live
• The Old Man & the Pool on Netflix
• Scriptnotes, Ep 179: The Conflict Episode
• Aliens screenplay by James Cameron
• Sex, lies and videotape screenplay by Steven Soderbergh
• Miry’s List
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Working It Out is produced by Mike Birbiglia, Peter Salomone, Joseph Birbiglia and Mabel Lewis. Associate producer: Gary Simons. Consulting producer: Seth Barrish. Video consultant: Graham Willoughby.
• Special Thanks to Marissa Hurwitz, Josh Upfal, David Raphael, Nina Cwik, J. Hope Stein, and Oona. Music by Jack Antonoff and Bleachers
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this compendium episode, John and Craig demystify the the relationship between writers and the people who represent them, looking at how to acquire, work with and (if necessary) fire your agents and managers.

How do you get an agent or a manager? What are they looking for in a potential client? What frustrates them? How do you position yourself for success? And what should you be looking for in an agent? How should they treat their clients? What is in their job description? How do you navigate disagreements, and what are best practices for when you have to part ways?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John discusses how and why he changed his mind and signed with his first-ever manager just a few weeks ago.

Links:

• Episode 2 – How to get an agent and/or manager
• Episode 172 – Franz Kafka’s brother, and the perfect agent
• Episode 7 – Firing a manager, and trying new software
• How ‘Go,’ the Wildest, Druggiest, Horniest Cult Movie of 1999 Got Made (And Almost Didn’t) by Paul Schrodt for GQ
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by James Llonch (send us yours!)
• This episode’s segments were originally produced by Stuart Friedel. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Why are things so rough in Hollywood right now? John and Craig look at the industry’s current contraction, its historical analogues, and offer suggestions for what might fix it.

We also follow up on streaming ad breaks and New York accents, before answering listener questions on being paralyzed, whether it’s by your second draft or writing professional emails.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig wonder what to do with their digital lives once they’ve shuffled off this mortal coil, and how do you keep it from getting creepy?

Links:

• The Life and Death of Hollywood by Daniel Bessner for Harpers
• One weird trick for fixing Hollywood by Max Read
• Moloch Trap
• Lola Dupre
• Codenames Duet
• 2 Kings 2:23-24
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Ben Singer (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig investigate what characters know and how we know they know what they know. It’s something that can be as confusing as that last sentence was, but they offer clear guidance on building informed characters, audience expectations, and how to get everybody on the same page.

We also look at how ad breaks in streaming are interrupting established act breaks. But first we follow up on AI transcription and character voice, and answer listener questions on authentic depictions and how to ask for a WGA contract.

In our bonus segment for premium members, how should you act when you meet a famous person? John and Craig have big (but well-concealed) feelings.

Links:

• Do I Sound Gay? Documentary
• International Dialects of English Archive
• Accent Tag on YouTube
• Chilean beer ads in Star Wars
• Letter Jam
• TacticalMap
• Fallout on Prime Video
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Nica Brooke (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer and comedian Alex Edelman to look at how he wrote his solo show Just For Us, and dig into the meaning of “write what you know.” They discuss finding your voice as a writer, developing your story with an audience, why Alex doesn’t write his shows down, and the sample that first got him staffed.

We also answer listener questions on what to do when your manager doesn’t understand your comedy, and the value of characters speaking to themselves.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John asks Alex, how do you set boundaries on material when you’re dating another comedian?

Links:

• Alex Edelman
• Just For Us on HBO
• Replay by Jordan Mechner
• Replay by Ken Grimwood
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Ali Clifton (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The post Can You Believe It? first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig can’t help but look at intrinsic motivations — those specific internal drives that guide characters behavior. They discuss how to structure and expose that internal drive, the importance of an innate irritability, how it can stop your characters from becoming flat, and rewarding that intrinsic motivation with choice.

But first, we follow up on AI training, blueprints and “important” movies. We also weigh in on a high-school senior’s college dilemma and answer a listener question on writing with your trailer in mind.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig parse out their reasons for why humans may – or may not – ever leave the solar system.

Links:

• My Pal Foot Foot by The Shaggs
• Braid by Jonathan Blow
• Connections from the New York Times
• Q: Who Found a Way to Crack the U.K.’s Premier Quiz Show? by David Segal for The New York Times
• On what motivates us: a detailed review of intrinsic v. extrinsic motivation by Laurel S. Morris, Mora M. Grehl, Sarah B. Rutter, Marishka Mehta, and Margaret L. Westwater
• Why are there so many illegal weed stores in New York City? by PJ Vogt
• Shōgun on FX
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Ben Singer (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The post Intrinsic Motivation first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig lawyer up with criminal defense attorney Ken White (aka Popehat) to look at legal scenes in movies and TV, and separate the tropes from the truth.

How do lawyers actually prepare a case? Will they meet a client in jail? Do they need to gather evidence themselves? And what happens when they go to trial? What are the rules for examining witnesses? How often do people represent themselves in court? And do judges really bang their gavel like that?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig invite Ken to imagine traveling somewhere worse than prison — the beach.

Links:

• Ken White on BlueSky, Facebook and Threads
• Serious Trouble podcast
• The Popehat Report by Ken White
• Hello, My Name Is Stephen Glass, and I’m Sorry by Hanna Rosin for The New Republic
• LibreOffice
• Sovereign Citizens Getting Owned
• The Rest is History podcast
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Lou Stone Borenstein (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at four unbelievable stories in the news and ask, How Would This Be a Movie? Stories include a finance journalist who was scammed out of her savings, men who offer dating bounties, a franken-sheep made of cloned animal parts, and how standardized tests changed one woman’s life.

We also reveal which modern classics we’ve never seen (We meant to! We’re sorry!) to decide which – if any – we need to watch. But first, we follow up on D&D for kids, ESL, AI in reality TV, and Tiffany problems before answering listener questions on formats and recommending your spouse.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig look at new guidelines for AI and how they might affect our future.

Links:

• Weekend Read 2
• “Creep” post by @davo_arid on Twitter
• Full list of movies we haven’t seen
• The Day I Put $50,000 in a Shoe Box and Handed It to a Stranger by Charlotte Cowles for The Cut
• Wanted: True Love. Reward: $100,000 by Angela Chen for the NYT
• Montana Man Pleads Guilty to Creating Massive Franken-Sheep With Cloned Animal Parts by Matt Novak for Gizmodo
• How the SAT Changed My Life by Emi Nietfeld for the NYT
• D.C. – What It Is
• Fighting Fantasy books
• LA Hero Workshop
• Sodalitas
• OSR’s Oz and Neverland
• Questlings
• Color My Quest
• WyrdScouts
• The Excellents and Nancy Druid
• Hero Kids
• TTRPGkids
• Hide’n’Treat and Snuffle Mat
• Jaina Grey’s reviews for WIRED
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Tim Brown (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 4-2-24: Listener Luke Rankin created a Letterboxd list of all the movies featured in this episode. You can view it here.

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John welcomes back Pamela Ribon (Nimona, My Year of Dicks) to quietly ask: what’s with all the whispering in movies these days? They discuss trends and techniques in voice and volume, picking the right moment to whisper, and the value of voices across decibel levels.

We also revisit Pamela’s work on Moana to look at what you can learn from reading early drafts, ponder the threat of TikTok and YouTube, follow-up on vetting potential co-workers, and answer a listener question on writing animation.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Pam shares all her star-studded stories from sitting in the 5th row at this year’s Oscars.

Links:

• Pamela Ribon on Instagram
• Listen to Sassy
• My Year of Dicks
• Nimona on Netflix
• Hire Survivors Hollywood
• Dune: Part Two Clip
• ‘Fundie Baby Voice’ Seems To Be Everywhere Now. Here’s What You Should Know by Caroline Bologna for Huffpost
• In a World – Smoothie
• Natural Born Killers 1990 Draft
• Natural Born Killers 1993 Draft
• Lin-Manuel Miranda on ‘I Want’ Songs, Going Method for ‘Moana’ and Fearing David Bowie
• More (Outtake) from Moana
• How Far I’ll Go from Moana
• How Bad Can It Get for Hollywood? by Mark Harris for NYT
• This Sitcom Got WEIRD When Nobody Watched It by David Friedman
• Researching An Old Sitcom With AI by David Friedman
• Coucou French classes
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Vincent DeVito (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Chris Csont, and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

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You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig wring their hands and ask, how do you make sure the person you’re hiring isn’t a monster? They look at best practices for vetting colleagues, sussing out problematic people, and managing your own emotions when you’re the person with power.

We also discuss writing for non-native English speakers, using three examples to illustrate the importance of syntax, musicality and authenticity. But first, we answer listener questions on giving notes and kids playing D&D.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we spill the kool-aid on our fears and fascinations with cults.

Links:

• Strands from the New York Times
• Anatomy of a Fall – Clip
• Past Lives by Celine Song
• Irma Vep – Clip
• Is This Hollywood’s #MeanToo Moment? by David Mack for Slate
• How to play Dungeons and Dragons for kids
• RuPaul Doesn’t See How That’s Any of Your Business by Ronan Farrow for The New Yorker
• Recursion – Glitch Games
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Eric Pearson (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

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You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 04-22-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig explore the counterfactuals of Hollywood history — the relatively small moments that, if the coin toss had gone the other way, would have massive ramifications on the world as we know it.

What if Edison was allowed to keep his monopoly on motion pictures? What does our industry look like without the Paramount Consent Decree? What if George Lucas died in his car accident? Would superhero movies have dominated our culture if Iron Man had bombed? What studios would have gone down if Titanic had sunk? And what if Netflix had stayed with its DVD-only model?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig talk capitalism and solve its problems once and for all.

Links:

• What If? by Robert Cowley
• Thomas Edison: The Unintentional Founder of Hollywood by Garrett O’Brien for the Saturday Evening Post
• United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc. on Wikipedia
• George Lucas: The Car Wreck That Changed His Life and Led Him to ‘Star Wars’ by Tim Ott for Biography
• When ‘Titanic’ Was Expected to Be a Huge Flop by Jake Rossen for Mental Floss
• ‘John Carter’ Changed Hollywood, but Not in the Way Disney Hoped by Richard Newby for THR
• Financial Interest and Syndication Rules
• Post-Quantum Cryptography
• S’more! S’more! His artisanal marshmallows were the greatest. Then he tried to scale them. by Adam Rogers
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Zach Lo (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 04-22-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John welcomes back John Gatins (Flight, Coach Carter) to talk about reviving a dormant project and actually getting it made – like he just did with his new film Little Wing. They look at how films die, what brings them back to life, and go deep into the mechanics of sports movies.

We also follow up on flu tests, the Tiffany problem and pet names before answering listener questions on professionalism, mid-credit scenes, and work ethic.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John Gatins talks abut transitioning into a writing team and reveals his process of negotiating credits.

Links:

• Little Wing – On Paramount+ March 13th
• John Gatins on Wikipedia and IMDb
• Little Wing by Susan Orlean for the New Yorker
• LUCIRA by Pfizer COVID-19 & Flu Home Test
• Merlin Bird ID
• The Facts of Life – Attempted Spin-offs
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Alee Karim (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

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You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 4-10-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John has the flu (or does he?) and Craig is missing, so we’re going back through the vaults to look at the mechanics of mystery and suspense. How do writers exploit the audience’s curiosity? What builds and breaks their trust? How do you use suspense across genres? And what do these techniques look like on the page?

But first, we look at the current agency shakeups and share our thoughts on OpenAI’s new engine, Sora.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Drew talk about their experience with the Apple Vision Pro.

Links:

• Scriptnotes 269 – Mystery vs. Confusion
• Scriptnotes 332 – Wait for It
• A3 Artists Agency Shuts Down by Aaron Couch and Rebecca Sun for The Hollywood Reporter
• Verve CEO and Co-Founder Bill Weinstein Leaves Agency After 14 Years by Cynthia Littleton for Variety
• A few thoughts on Sora by John August
• GOODY-2
• Meet the Pranksters Behind Goody-2, the World’s ‘Most Responsible’ AI Chatbot by Will Knight for Wired
• Claire Keegan
• Contextual computing with Vision Pro: My Writing Cabin by David Sparks
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Eric Pearson (send us yours!)
• Segments originally produced by Godwin Jabangwe and Megan McDonnell. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 04-01-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John welcomes writer and showrunner Francesca Sloane (Mr. & Mrs. Smith, Atlanta) to talk about her process of bringing a big-screen property to television. She shares how she and Donald Glover found their way into the story, how it evolved in development, building a room that was all women of color, re-writing on set, and the many lessons she learned as a first time showrunner.

We also follow up on writing partners and phonetic alphabets before answering listener questions on writing samples, casting on the page and why some screenplays are free to read.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we dig into the benefits (and drawbacks) of film schools and fellowships.

Links:

• Francesca Sloane on Instagram
• Mr. & Mrs. Smith on Amazon Prime Video
• ISPA: Inter-Species Phonetic Alphabet for Transcribing Animal Sounds by Masato Hagiwara, Marius Miron and Jen-Yu Liu
• Bluets by Maggie Nelson
• A Unified Theory of F-cks by Mandy Brown
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Eric Pearson (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 04-01-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John welcomes Celine Song (Past Lives) to chart her journey from playwright to Oscar-nominated screenwriter. We discuss the intricacies of writing bilingually, the similarities between theater and a writers room, finding the right collaborators and how writing prepared Celine for the rigors of directing.

We also follow up on foreign courts, the Tiffany problem, and answer listener questions on American grad schools and table reads.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Celine looks back on her production of The Seagull in The Sims 4 and reflects on the importance of experimenting with form.

Links:

• Celine Song on IMDb and Instagram
• Past Lives
• The Seagull on The Sims 4
• The Wheel of Time
• A real bald eagle call vs a red-tailed hawk
• Deadwood and The American President
• Shottr
• Baldur’s Gate 3
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 03-15-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig host another round of the Three Page Challenge, where they give their honest feedback on three listener-submitted scripts. They offer insights into using sound realistically, writing action that can be easily directed, finding subtext in dialogue, and navigating complex points of view.

But first, we dig into several tricky listener questions: How does a writing team discuss their individual work with their reps? When is it ok to say no to inclusive casting? And how do you break up with a producer?

In our bonus segment for premium members, we delve into tough questions and offer advice to our younger selves.

Links:

• Weekend Read 2
• ROUTES by Colton W. Miller, MEGHA GENESIS by Priti Trivedi, and THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS by Eric Hunsley
• Delve Deck
• Zarak by Afghan Kitchen – Vancouver
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matt Davis (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 2-26-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig discuss the dynamics of fandom, attempting to chart how things get cool, then hot, then terrible. But how are fandoms organized? Where do subcultures start? And how should you engage with the community that forms around your work?

We also look at an alternative screenplay format from one of last year’s best screenplays, and follow up on bake-offs, distracting accuracies in fiction, and UK writing credits. We then answer questions on original songs, packaging your script, and what you can do when you suspect you’ve been ripped off.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig look at the many various fandoms and do their best to enrage them.

Links:

• The Tiffany Problem
• ‘Harry Potter’ TV Series Zeroes In On Premise As Selected Writers Pitch Their Ideas To Max
• WGGB Screenwriting Credits Agreement
• Ig Nobel Prize – “Please stop, I’m Bored”
• Anatomy of a Fall – Screenplay
• Podcasters Took Up Her Sister’s Murder Investigation. Then They Turned on Her by Sarah Viren for the New York Times
• Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution by David Chapman
• Going Zero by Anthony McCarten
• The Devil by Jessica Mazin on Spotify
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Jessica Mazin (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 2-22-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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The DGA surprised the town yesterday, announcing an update to their already-signed agreement with the AMPTP. The new deal includes select pay bumps and the streaming bonus gained by WGA and SAG-AFTRA after their lengthy strikes.

John and Drew are back to look at what we know about this off-cycle development and ask questions like huh? And how? And why?

Links:

• DGA Announces Revisions To Film & TV Contract, Including Addition Of Streaming Bonus To Match WGA’s by Katie Campione for Deadline
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Aline Brosh McKenna to look at how both you and your characters can become more “agentic.” What are the traps and pitfalls of going after what you want? How do you get people to engage with your protagonist, especially when the protagonist is yourself?

Then it’s another round of How Would This be a Movie? We look at stories about a harm-reduction hotline, countertop cancer, loyalty testers and a mathematician who exploited the lottery.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Aline talk about their strange new reality of being empty nesters.

Links:

• How to be More Agentic by Cate Hall
• What’s Stopping You? by Neel Nanda
• Seven ways to become unstoppably agentic by Evie Cottrell
• “Agency” needs nuance by Evie Cottrell
• The Woman on the Line by Aymann Ismail and Mary Harris for Slate
• California workers who cut countertops are dying of an incurable disease by Emily Alpert Reyes and Cindy Carcamo for the LA Times
• Would Your Partner Cheat? These ‘Testers’ Will Give You an Answer by Gina Cherelus for the New York Times
• The man who won the lottery 14 times by Zachary Crockett for The Hustle
• Musely
• So you wanna de-bog yourself by Adam Mastroianni
• Aline Brosh McKenna
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Larry Douziech (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 2-20-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig investigate those details that are accurate and authentic, but can pull viewers out of the story. They look for ways to balance what is realistic with what is believable, and how to get rid of distractions and keep your audience focused on what matters.

We also discuss popular names, follow up on Icelandic pronunciations and the Mazinga toy, and answer listener questions on period details, defining biopics, writing during production, and whether or not to read the script before watching the movie.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig swallow their pride and ask, how can you tell when someone is just being nice?

Links:

• First baby of the new year arrives at Dublin’s Rotunda Hospital
• Mazinger Z
• Regicide
• The Last of Us Comes in First at Saturday Creative Arts Emmys
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Sudarshan Kadam (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 2-5-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig take a look at the many For Your Consideration scripts suddenly available to read to see what lessons can be learned from movies that were actually made. They find best practices for establishing setting, using “we see” and “we hear,” complicated setups, directing on the page, and how to get right into your story.

We also look at the possible sale of Paramount, the International Phonetic Alphabet and setting 2024 goals, before answering listener questions on UK credits and our writing routines.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig chew on a difficult question — would we eat lab-grown human meat?

Links:

• The Vultures Are Circling: Who Will Walk Away With Paramount? by Alex Weprin for The Hollywood Reporter
• The Holdovers by David Hemingson
• All of Us Strangers by Andrew Haigh
• May December by Samy Burch, story by Samy Burch & Alex Mechanik
• Saltburn by Emerald Fennell
• Killers of the Flower Moon by Eric Roth & Martin Scorsese
• Barbie by Greta Gerwig & Noah Baumbach
• Across the Spider-Verse by Phil Lord & Christopher Miller & Dave Callaham
• Oppenheimer by Christopher Nolan
• American Fiction by Cord Jefferson
• Weekend Read 2
• Gartic Phone
• Dungeons & Dragons – Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Zach Lo (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 1-30-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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In this compendium episode, John and Craig look at how we can best articulate our characters’ inner lives and get the audience invested in them. They discuss the intricacies of point of view, finding truthful emotional states, and why it’s so important for your characters to be liars.

How do you engage an audience’s empathy? What makes an audience cry? What emotional response breaks their trust? Why is point of view important, and how can it be manipulated? How can lies be used to drive a character to emotional authenticity? And what is the best way to reveal your character’s secrets?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig talk single-use characters and crown the greatest day-player of all time.

Links:

• Scriptnotes Episode 358 – Point of View
• Scriptnotes Episode 472 – Emotional States
• Scriptnotes Episode 151 – Secrets and Lies
• Scriptnotes Episode 467 – Another Word for Euphemism
• Gödel’s incompleteness theorems
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Rajesh Naroth (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 1-30-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig are joined by the ghosts of Scriptnotes past and present (Megana and Drew) for a festive competition: discussing the perils of studio bake-offs — pitting writer against writer for one coveted job — while simultaneously judging three of LA’s finest holiday cookies.

We also look at Netflix’s recently released viewership data, follow up on homonyms, AI coverage and voting, and answer a listener question on the definition of a drafts. But first, we investigate the origin of a very useful word that’s new to John and Craig.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we travel to holidays past to discuss the best presents we ever received — and the gifts that got away.

Links:

• Netflix Viewership Data
• The absolutely legitimate, incredibly useful Indian English word you’re not using by Diksha Madhok
• Homographs
• The Very Best Cookie In The Whole Wide World
• DeLuscious Cookies
• Levain Bakery
• Clue Conspiracy
• Dessert Person by Claire Saffitz
• Upright Steamer
• The Kelly Clarkson Connection
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 1-19-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John welcomes writer and director Christopher Nolan (The Dark Knight, Inception) to discuss experimentation, subjectivity and adaptation as they take an in-depth look at his screenplay, Oppenheimer.

They explore Chris’ writing process, how to make non-linear structures work, finding the story in real-life events, being kinetic on the page, the importance of embracing editing, and why theme can be a tricky thing.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Chris and John muse about the difficulties of dream sequences — and what makes them work.

Links:

• Oppenheimer – The First Three Pages
• Christopher Nolan on IMDb.
• American Prometheus by Kai Bird and Martin J. Sherwin
• The Open Mind by J. Robert Oppenheimer
• The Shepard Tone
• When We Cease to Understand the World by Benjamín Labatut
• Infinite Mac
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 1-16-24: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig look at several notable figures in the news and ask, How Would This Be a Biopic? They examine the lives of Henry Kissinger, Sandra Day O’Connor, George Santos, Rosalynn Carter, and Sam Altman to see which are best suited for the big screen, and declare once-and-for-all the proper way to pronounce “biopic.”

We also follow up on VFX and AI, the two-column format, inner monologues, and Melissa Mazin sets the record straight on her role at Thanksgiving.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig speculate about which event in history had the biggest negative impact on human civilization.

Links:

• Sandra Day O’Connor
• Henry Kissinger
• Rosalynn Carter
• George Santos
• Sam Altman
• What happened at OpenAI? The Sam Altman saga, explained by Rachel Lehman for The Washington Post
• International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)
• Fallout – Trailer
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by James Llonch (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 12-18-23: The transcript for this episode can be found here.

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John and Craig talk action! It’s an all-craft episode about how words on the page become high-adrenaline events on the screen. Using a variety of different scripts, we look at how different styles of action sequences can be used to clearly communicate what is meant to happen in a scene and how it’s supposed to […] The post Writing Action (Encore) first appeared on John August.

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Live from New York, John talks with writers and actors about the differences between LA and NYC pickets, anxiety, and how joy can be a form of protest. Featuring Christopher Kyle and Wilson Cruz. Big thanks to everyone who talked with us! Links: East & NY Strike Resources Writers Guild of America East Summary of […] The post Sidecast: NYC Picketing first appeared on John August.

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Live from New York, John talks with writers and actors about the differences between LA and NYC pickets, anxiety, and how joy can be a form of protest.

Featuring Christopher Kyle and Wilson Cruz. Big thanks to everyone who talked with us!

Links:

• East & NY Strike Resources
• Writers Guild of America East
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Cory Reeder.

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You can download the episode here.

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Cory Reeder interviews writers and performers at the joint WGA/SAG-AFTRA disability picket at Disney.

Big thanks to Cory and everyone he spoke with!

Links:

• WGAw Disabled Writers Committee
• SAG-AFTRA Diversity Committees
• SAG-AFTRA Empowering Performers with Disabilities on Set
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Cory Reeder.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig investigate our primal instincts and how they motivate our characters. Often referred to as the four F’s, these are the impulses hardwired into every animal in order to survive. But how do these base impulses guide a character’s behavior? And how can they be harnessed to make sure you don’t overcomplicate your character’s want?

We also look at impermanence in our digital world and the ways people are trying to preserve lost media. But first we answer listener questions on comics, digital de-aging, and closed captions.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we ask: why are we better swimmers as kids than we are as adults?

Links:

• Can’t Hear the Dialogue in Your Streaming Show? You’re Not Alone by Brian X. Chen for the New York Times
• No, You Do Not Have a Lizard Brain Inside Your Human Brain from Mind Matters
• Prey Drive
• Scriptnotes, Episode 364 – Netflix Killed the Video Store
• The Dream Was Universal Access to Knowledge. The Result Was a Fiasco by David Streitfeld for the New York Times
• Baldur’s Gate 3
• Tweet by Chris Miller
• Hydrostatic Life Vests
• British Airways safety video
• Highland 2
• Writer Emergency Pack XL
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Bob Tipping (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John answers the most common questions he hears out on the picket line, including the nervous, “Wait, why are you here? Is something wrong?” Links: wgacontract2023.org It’s All Relative on YouTube Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses 2023 WGA Strike Rules Strike Rules FAQ Picket Schedules and Locations Find more about the 2023 […] The post Sidecast: Picket Line Q & A first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig examine the foundation of every story: the premise. What is your story really about? What questions is it trying to answer? How does that differ from your logline? And what should writers do to make sure those things match up? We also follow up on AI copyright, physical media, Esperanto and lingua […] The post The Premise first appeared on John August.

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John and Drew inspect the Federal Trade Commission’s proposed merger guidelines and why they’re important for everybody – not just writers – to read and comment on.

Links:

• FTC and DOJ Seek Comment on Draft Merger Guidelines by the Federal Trade Commission
• Publicly Comment on the FTC Draft Merger Guidelines
• WGA Template and Call to Action
• FTC proposes new merger guidelines by John August
• Financial Interest and Syndication (Fin-Syn) Rules on Wikipedia
• Paramount Decree on Wikipedia
• Picket hours and information
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at how well-written dialogue is used to give characters a unique voice. Using clips from previous episodes they present a history of dialogue and its evolution, how it informs your actors, and how communicating an idea sometimes comes down to the smallest words our characters say.

How can writers use dialogue to make their characters feel distinct and alive? What are tests for character voice? What can memorizing dialogue can teach us about writing it? And how do you keep all your characters active (and your actors happy) in group scenes?

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig stay on-topic to look at the pros and cons of dual dialogue.

Links:

• Scriptnotes Episode 37 – Let’s talk about dialogue
• Scriptnotes Episode 286 – Script Doctors, Dialogue and Hacks
• Scriptnotes Episode 371 – Writing Memorable Dialogue
• Highland 2
• Writer Emergency Pack XL
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt, featuring segments originally produced by Stuart Friedel, Godwin Jabangwe, Megan McDonnell and Megana Rao. It is edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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With union elections on the horizon, John and Drew present an overview of the voting process and governing structures of the WGA, DGA and SAG-AFTRA. Links: SAG-AFTRA 2023 Elections and Voter Guides SAG-AFTRA Governance DGA Leadership WGAw 2023 Elections WGAe 2023 Elections Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org John on Twitter, […] The post Sidecast: Elections first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig welcome guests Quinta Brunson, Rachel Bloom and Natasha Lyonne to join them for a live benefit for Hollywood HEART. Since they cannot discuss the shows they’re currently working on (strike rules!) they instead reflect on the surprising paths of their careers, how acting has influenced them as writers and directors, and how […] The post Scriptnotes LIVE! at Dynasty Typewriter in LA first appeared on John August.

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On the 100th day of striking against the AMPTP, John heads to the picket line to speak with writers about what they’ve learned, how they’re feeling, and what has changed. Thanks to everyone who talked to us! Links: 2023 WGA Writer’s Strike Gallery by J. W. Hendricks Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses […] The post Sidecast: 100 Days first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig ponder the nature of words and what gives them meaning. Using new information on how large language models function, they look at the dizzying amount of connections words can create with other words, between humans, and their profound effect on the nature of consciousness. We promise we’re not high.

We also follow up on racist characters before answering listener questions on balancing deadlines with an artistic process and our ideal press junket questions.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig reflect on the impact left on them by the art and life of Sinéad O’Conner.

Links:

• Scriptnotes LIVE! at Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles benefitting HollywoodHEART
• Weekend Read 2, now available on MacOS.
• Large language models, explained with a minimum of math and jargon by Timothy B Lee and Sean Trott
• Word Vectors
• Decrypto
• Matt Gaffney’s Weekly Crossword Contest
• This Is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone
• Sinéad O’Connor – Troy (Live At The Dominion Theatre, 1988)
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Threads and Instagram
• John August on Threads, Instagram and Twitter
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Jake Weisblat (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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The AMPTP has reached out to set a meeting with the WGA. What does this mean? How should we feel? And can John find a metaphor for it? Links: WGA Announcements: Discussion with AMPTP about Negotiations Scriptnotes LIVE! At Dynasty Typewriter Writing Is Our Home by WGA Negotiating Committee Co-Chair Chris Keyser Summary of Negotiations: […] The post Sidecast: AMPTP Asks for a Meeting first appeared on John August.

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Craig hosts a solo episode presenting his general theory on screenwriting. He covers the central dramatic argument, the ‘why’ behind plot points, and of course, umbrage on common script diagrams. Good luck, and go torture your heroes! In our bonus segment for premium members, John Gatins (Flight, Real Steel) tells us about his history with […] The post How to Write a Movie (Encore) first appeared on John August.

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John has opinions on the AMPTP’s new assertion that the studios are bearing all the risk when it comes to making a movie or a series, and therefore should be receiving all the reward.

Links:

• AMPTP response to SAG-AFTRA
• ‘Idiots’: Wall Street Analysts Unload on Hollywood by Claire Atkinson for The Ankler
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• Updated picket hours and information
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes back Pamela Ribon (My Year of Dicks, Moana) to talk about how to fit the right characters to your story. We know story comes from characters, but often an idea starts with a world, so how do writers find the right characters to build their story around? We also talk about writing for […] The post Character and Story Fit first appeared on John August.

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John welcomes back Pamela Ribon (My Year of Dicks, Moana) to talk about how to fit the right characters to your story. We know story comes from characters, but often an idea starts with a world, so how do writers find the right characters to build their story around?

We also talk about writing for animation, working in reality TV and the forgotten art of television recapping. We then answer listener questions about choosing a character’s sex and gender, and gauging page count from an outline.

And in our bonus segment for premium members, we explore Pamela’s own podcast, Listen to Sassy, about the greatest teen magazine of all time.

Links:

• Pamela Ribon on IMDb
• Listen To Sassy
• Television Without Pity
• Get Real (1999-2000) on IMDb
• How to Hire a Pop Star for Your Private Party by Evan Osnos for The New Yorker
• The Secret to Judd Apatow’s Comedy? A Huge Library of Self-Help Books by Clay Skipper
• Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Adam Pineless (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Drew take a look at SAG-AFTRA’s summary of negotiations to see what was asked for, what was offered, and what writers need to know. They also share insights on SAG-AFTRA’s new captain system.

Links:

• SAG-AFTRA Summary of Negotiations
• SAG-AFTRA Strike Information Portal
• kate bond’s thread on Twitter
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• Updated picket hours and information
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at four tales of science, medicine and mayhem and ask, how would this be a movie? Stories include a catatonic woman who woke up after 20 years, a white supremacist transformed by MDMA, a drugged crypto lawyer, and an in-depth account of alien biology. But first we have a very special […] The post Medicine and Mayhem first appeared on John August.

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On the first day of the the SAG-AFTRA strike, actors and writers on the picket lines tell us why this strike is so important to them and what advice they have for first-time picketers. Featuring Jim Rash and SAG-AFTRA negotiating committee members Nicole Cyrille and Joseph Melendez. Thanks to everyone who talked to us! Links: […] The post Sidecast: The Double Strike, Day One first appeared on John August.

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SAG-AFTRA, the union that represents all the film and television actors in the US, has announced that their members are going on strike. John and Drew look at what that means, what to expect, and how it will impact the ongoing writers strike. Links: SAG-AFTRA Strike Notice to Members A Message from the SAG-AFTRA President […] The post Sidecast: SAG-AFTRA on Strike first appeared on John August.

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John welcomes Alison McDonald (Russian Doll, #BlackAF) and Ryan Knighton (In the Dark, Billions) to reveal the fundamentals and unspoken rules of working in a TV writers room. How did they get the job? How much should new writers talk? What should you wear? How much money do you make? And what’s for lunch? Our […] The post Advice for a New Staff Writer (Encore) first appeared on John August.

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A lot of people have been singled out as either heroes or villains of this writer’s strike, but does any individual deserve that title? John and Drew look at these narratives, the motivations behind them, and celebrate their own personal heroes of the strike. Links: David Zaslav Article Taken Down By GQ After Warner Bros. […] The post Sidecast: Heroes and Villains (of the Strike) first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig question questions themselves. What’s really happening when a character asks a question? How many types of questions can be asked? What can questions tell us about our characters and the power dynamics within a scene? Are these leading questions or rhetorical questions? And will John and Craig answer them all?

We also answer questions from listeners about turning a screenplay into a book and first jobs in the industry. But first, we follow up on the GameStop movie, pitch decks and a groovy listener outro.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we look at the financial backgrounds of superheroes and their villains, and the strange patterns of inherited wealth.

Links:

• DUMB MONEY Trailer
• Lost in the Shuffle: A Double-Dealing Puzzle Game by Spencer Beebe
• Mass production of rebar in a Japanese factory
• CEOs in Comics: Villains Earn, Heroes Inherit by Julian Sanchez
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli. Our intern is Halley Lamberson.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome Akela Cooper (M3GAN, Malignant) to help offer guidance to billionaires looking to put their money in the safest place they can: the film and television industry. The trio looks at the upsides of investing in productions, which business models already exist and what we can learn from the independent television studios of the past.

We also chart Akela’s career from USC student through to this year’s hit film M3GAN. We then answer listener questions on planting easter eggs and nameless characters.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Akela tells us about her experience in two different studio training programs and whether they’re useful for new writers.

Links:

• Akela Cooper on IMDb and Instagram
• Paramount Writers Mentoring Program(formerly CBS Writers Mentoring Program)
• Warner Bros. Television Workshop
• M3GAN Dance Scene
• Episode 122: “Young Billionaires Guide to Hollywood”
• Ben Affleck And Matt Damon Launch Production Company With RedBird Capital’s Gerry Cardinale by Bruce Haring for Variety
• Warner Bros. Discovery In Talks To License HBO Original Series To Netflix by Peter White for Deadline
• The Carsey-Werner Company on Wikipedia
• Чёрный Ворон (Black Raven) – Chernobyl OST
• Evolution Keeps Making Crabs, And Nobody Knows Why by Clare Watson for Science Alert
• Welcome to Wrexham on FX and Hulu
• Arnold on Netflix
• The Last Action Heroes by Nick de Semlyen
• Commando: The Musical
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Nora Beyer (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli. Our intern is Halley Lamberson.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome Akela Cooper (M3GAN, Malignant) to help offer guidance to billionaires looking to put their money in the safest place they can: the film and television industry. The trio looks at the upsides of investing in productions, which business models already exist and what we can learn from the independent television studios […] The post Billion Dollar Advice first appeared on John August.

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With that hot summer sun comes new picketing hours from the WGA. John and Drew take a look at the new schedule and answer a listener question about YouTube content. Links: Updated picket hours and information Charlie’s Angels: Full Throttle – Griffith Observatory Scene NDA with Dave Wiskus – What the Writers Strike Means For […] The post Sidecast: Summer Schedule first appeared on John August.

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Live from the WGA STRONG: March and Rally for a Fair Contract in Los Angeles.

Featuring Adam Conover, Boots Riley and Lindsay Dougherty. Thanks to everyone who talked to us!

Links:

• 5,000-Plus Demonstrators Rally in L.A. to Support Writers Strike, Pressure Studios by Katie Kilkenny and Xennia Hamilton for The Hollywood Reporter
• WGA Strike Rally & March information
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome Aline Brosh McKenna to talk about the difficult journey through pages 70-90 of your feature. The end of the second act can drive even the most seasoned writers into an existential crisis, but together they offer their tips and tricks to navigating this difficult passage.

We then talk about the importance of tone: what does tone feel like on the page? And how can it distinguish great writing? We also talk mentors, procrastination, the Panic Monster and our inner Instant Gratification Monkeys.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Drew reveal how each episode of Scriptnotes is made and what they’ve learned putting together the Sidecasts.

Links:

• Aline Brosh McKenna
• Justin Timberlake joins the Five-Timers Club
• Scriptnotes, Episode 131: Procrastination and Pageorexia
• Why Procrastinators Procrastinate and How to Beat Procrastination by Tim Urban
• airbnb
• Scriptnotes, Episode 99: Psychotherapy for screenwriters
• Freedom blocks digital distractions
• Deadline on Aline’s Showtime pilot pickup
• They Came Together and Mutual Friends
• Bandolier hands free crossbody iPhone accessory
• Slate Culture Gabfest “Grief Sandwich” Edition
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Outro by JT Butler (send us yours!)
• This episode was originally produced by Stuart Friedel. Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome Aline Brosh McKenna to talk about the difficult journey through pages 70-90 of your feature. The end of the second act can drive even the most seasoned writers into an existential crisis, but together they offer their tips and tricks to navigating this difficult passage. We then talk about the importance […] The post The Rocky Shoals (pages 70-90), Encore first appeared on John August.

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Scriptnotes listeners Anton Breum in Copenhagen, Denmark and Pierre Puget in Cologne, Germany interview writers picketing in support of the WGA during the International Day of Solidarity, organized by Screenwriters Everywhere. Thank you to everyone who was interviewed and thank you Anton and Pierre! Links: Screenwriters Everywhere: International Day of Solidarity Pierre Puget is the […] The post Screenwriters Everywhere – Cologne and Copenhagen first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig host another round of the Three Page Challenge, selecting three listeners’ scripts for feedback on what’s working and common pitfalls to avoid. They offer insights into the tricky issues when cheating movement, formatting non-English dialogue, and the importance of logic in comedy. But first, we answer some long-gestating listener questions: What are […] The post Research Isn’t Cheating first appeared on John August.

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The WGA’s international sister unions are coming together Wednesday, June 14 for international picketing, and John and Drew are excited. We discuss where these pickets are taking place and how to RSVP, then answer a listener question about FYC events. Links: Screenwriters Everywhere: International Day of Solidarity Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses […] The post Sidecast: International Day of Picketing first appeared on John August.

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John and Drew look at the results of SAG-AFTRA’s Strike Authorization Vote and the DGA’s tentative deal with the AMPTP, and what they mean for writers on strike.

Links:

• SAG-AFTRA Members Approve Strike Authorization with 97.91% Yes Vote
• DGA Tentative Agreement Press Release
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig take a detour to discuss side quests: those smaller tasks that can serve as the building blocks of a character’s journey. How do side quests differ from your hero’s primary goal? What’s the best way to use them? And how can writers make them meaningful?

We then discuss the importance of failure to the artistic process. We also follow up on graphic design for writers, spacing out TV episodes, and a Scriptnotes love story.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig put on their headsets to to talk about VR.

Links:

• Do Your Worst, Or You Might Never Do Your Best by Bridget Webber
• Why You Need to Fail TED Talk by Derek Sivers
• Artists must be allowed to make bad work by Austin Kleon
• The Museum of Failure
• For Profit: A History of Corporations by William Magnuson
• Kobo Libra 2
• Nine Days on IMDb
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Daniel Green (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Chris Csont and edited by Matthew Chilelli. Our intern is Halley Lamberson.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Megana, Drew and John discuss the best ways to talk about the WGA strike with family and non-industry friends.

How much context do you need to give? How do you properly frame the AI issues? How do you calm down a nervous parent without setting unrealistic expectations?

In other news, Weekend Read 2 is out! Drew and Megana have prepared hundreds of scripts and transcripts for your reading enjoyment.

Links:

• Weekend Read 2
• Megana Rao on Twitter
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The post Sidecast: How to Talk To Your Parents about the Strike first appeared on John August.

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As we reach our 600th episode, John and Craig welcome back writer and director Christopher McQuarrie (Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning, Top Gun: Maverick, The Usual Suspects) to continue their decades-long argument on the future of the movies and the forces that power the entertainment industry. Together they lead a wide-ranging debate on the corporate […] The post McQuarrie Returns first appeared on John August.

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Live from the picket line, John talks to members of The Animation Guild (TAG, IATSE local 839) marching in solidarity with with members of the WGA. They explain the issues writers in animation are facing, and why it’s so important for the the two unions to support one another.

Guests include Stuart Friedel, Bill Wolkoff and Len Uhley. Thanks to everyone who talked with us!

Links:

• The Animation Guild
• WGA Special Pickets
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John returns from a parking lot in Koreatown to tell Drew all about his experiences picketing productions on location and how other writers can get involved. We also answer listener questions, look at upcoming themed pickets, and celebrate the gains we’ve made at neutral gates.

Links:

• WGA Special Pickets
• WGA tip line: tips@wga.org
• Sean Graham at WGA: sgraham@wga.org
• Aziz Ansari’s ‘Good Fortune’ Suspends Production by Samantha Bergeson for IndieWire
• ‘Duster’, From J.J. Abrams & LaToya Morgan, Suspends Production In New Mexico by Peter White for Deadline
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig work together to look at team movies and what writers need to be thinking about when they have more than one protagonist. From Charlie’s Angels to The Hangover and every Ocean in between, they break down how to create narrative drive and tension with so many characters, and how to bring them all together in the end.

We also take a look at a new study that compares releasing TV episodes weekly vs. the binge model before following up on tone meetings and TV movies. We then answer listener questions about pitch decks and using translations of public domain works.

In our bonus segment for premium members – Hey! Listen! – John and Craig discuss the best way to set yourself up when you start playing an RPG.

Links:

• Study: Both Binge, Episodic Release Models Have Their Benefits, but Have to Be Deployed Strategically by Matt Tamanini
• Patton Oswalt stands still for an entire scene
• The Hanson Brothers in Slap Shot
• The Center for Transyouth Health and Development
• Holedown
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Duke (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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The actors union has called for a Strike Authorization Vote ahead of their negotiations with the AMPTP. John and Drew look at what that means, and what impact it may have on the writers strike.

Links:

• SAG-AFTRA Strike Authorization Vote
• Lukas Gage audition video by Lukas Gage on Twitter
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig sit down with legendary writer, director and showrunner Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul) to discuss his prolific career and how to make great television. Vince leads us through how he develops a premise, balancing creative surprises with rigorous planning, and his advice for up-and-coming showrunners.

We also discuss re-writing features before following up on the old dancing prospector archetype — only to discover it’s a character Vince has a long personal history with.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John, Craig and Vince get tired of re-runs and ask, which old TV shows do they want to re-boot?

Links:

• Vince Gilligan on IMDb
• Vince Gilligan plays a prospector on Community (S5 E9)
• Walter Houston’s dance in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
• Dracula’s Kung-Fu Theatre
• Alien Tape
• Today Years Old on Twitter
• Robot Puppet Sings “A Thousand Miles” by Vanessa Carlton by Ben Howard on YouTube
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matt Davis (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Megana Rao return from the picket line to ask, what’s the deal with neutral gates? Using the Teamsters as a guide, we look at the rules that govern neutral gates, why we have them, their history, and how they can guide our best practices for picketing as we enter the third week of the strike.

Links:

• Teamsters local 399 FAQ
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Megana Rao on Twitter
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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After a week on the picket line, John and Drew meet up to highlight listeners they’ve met, which productions have been shut down, what to expect from the upcoming DGA negotiations, and what non-WGA members can do to support striking writers.

We then answer questions to help listeners navigate the strike rules. Are writers are allowed to submit to labs and fellowships? Are we supposed to boycott struck companies? And how does the strike affect your favorite weekly podcast?

Links:

• Inevitable Foundation
• Entertainment Community Fund (formerly The Actors Fund)
• The Duffer Brothers announce Stranger Things production is paused on Twitter
• ‘Writers On Set’ by George R.R. Martin
• DGA Is United, Prepared and Ready to Fight for Our Future by Lesli Linka Glatter for Variety
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig dive into our overflowing mailbag to answer a wide range of listener questions. They discuss ageism in the industry, the realities of overall deals, clunky character backstories, and creating the relationship you want with your manager.

We also explore the history of a Disney Channel Original Movie, the realities of panning for gold, and who deals with your stuff after you die.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig reach through time to find their dream Scriptnotes guests.

Links:

• The biggest new moneymaking scheme for Hollywood stars? Doing nothing by Arwa Mahdawi for The Guardian
• Rollo Tomasi scene
• L.A. Confidential screenplay by Brian Helgeland & Curtis Hanson
• Not All Robots by Mark Russell and Mike Deodato Jr.
• TSA Precheck
• NEXUS Program for US Citizens and Canadian Citizens.
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Nora Beyer (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John is joined by Megana Rao to give us a first-hand account of last night’s WGA member meeting at the Shrine auditorium in Los Angeles.

Links:

• Megana Rao on Twitter
• Sarah Schaefer on the proposed “day rate.”
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Drew talk with writers on the picket line outside of CBS Studios in LA, who tell us what they’re currently not writing, what’s changed since the 2007 strike, and why this strike is so important to them.

Guests include WGA board member Zoe Marshall and previous Scriptnotes guest Megan Amram. Thanks to everyone who talked to us!

Links:

• WGA Strike Announcement
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• RSVP for WGA member meetings in Los Angeles and New York.
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Just after midnight, the WGA officially went on strike. John explains what happened in the negotiating room and sets his sights on the picket line. Where do the negotiations stand? What are the next steps for WGA members?

Links:

• WGA Strike Announcement
• Summary of Negotiations: WGA proposals and AMPTP responses
• 2023 WGA Strike Rules
• Strike Rules FAQ
• Picket Schedules and Locations
• RSVP for WGA member meetings in Los Angeles and New York.
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In preparation for episode 600, John revisits our first two episodes with Christopher McQuarrie (Top Gun: Maverick, Mission: Impossible – Fallout, The Usual Suspects) to marvel at his wisdom and enjoy his ongoing feud with Craig.

We chart his course from writer to writer-director, his process of rescuing a movie in crisis, the storytelling opportunities on TV, and what the future holds for young filmmakers.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John, Craig and Chris conduct a post-mortem on what killed the Spoof Movie – surely there must be a reason? (Of course there’s a reason, and don’t call us Shirley.)

Links:

• Original Chris McQuarrie episodes 300 and 400
• Chris McQuarrie on IMDb
• Chris McQuarrie on Instagram
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt (from episodes originally produced by Megana Rao and Godwin Jabangwe), and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Drew discuss the newly-released WGA 2023 Strike Rules and how guilds across the industry are showing support for the WGA.

We then answer listener questions about what writers – union and non-union – can do during a strike. Are any meetings are ok to take? Can you sign with a manager? And what if your optioned material is sold?

Links:

• WGA Sends Out Strike Rules To Members As Potential Hollywood Labor Shutdown Looms Next Week by Dominic Patten and David Robb for Deadline
• Teamsters Statement on Writers Guild of America Negotiations
• DGA Statement of Support for WGA in Contract Negotiations
• IATSE President Issues Statement of Support for Writers as Strike Deadline Approaches
• SAG-AFTRA Statement in Support of WGA Negotiations
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig talk to an audience of development executives about the experience of getting notes as a writer. They cover the do’s and don’ts of giving notes, ways to motivate writers towards a creative vision, and why these conversations kick in a writer’s fight or flight response.

We take questions from the audience and discuss ‘the bad pitch,’ likable characters, and how to stay friends with a writer after a breakup.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John offers his notes on Drew’s film school thesis as they discuss getting your first movie made.

Links:

• Episode 399, Notes on Notes
• Episode 99, Psychotheraphy for Screenwriters
• Episode 394, Broken but Sympathetic with Mari Heller
• Scriptnotes Listeners’ Guide
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Mackey Landry (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt (this episode was originally produced by Megana Rao), and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes Danielle Sanchez-Witzel (Up Here, The Carmichael Show) to discuss the state of modern TV writing and answer crafty questions from our overflowing mailbag.

How do you structure a limited series? How do you take inspiration from an idea without ripping it off? And how do you know if your story really needs that sex scene?

In our bonus segment for premium members, we explore the tricky situation of having a co-worker who is nice but incompetent.

Links:

• Danielle Sanchez-Witzel on IMDb.
• Up Here on Hulu.
• Succession Podcast, S4E2 with Lucy Prebble and Laura Wasser from HBO.
• Incompetent but Nice by Jacob Kaplan-Moss.
• Glucose Goddess on Instagram.
• Non-Buttermilk Pancake Recipe
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Alicia Jo Rabins (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this mini-episode, John and Drew discuss the results of the Strike Authorization Vote, and what’s next for negotiations.

We also answer a listener question asking how preWGA writers can show support during a possible strike.

Links:

• Strike Authorization Results
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at another set of incredible news stories and ask, How Would This Be a Movie? Stories include an AI love service, an inventor with good intentions who doomed our planet, a fake Aretha Franklin, and a multi-million dollar nut heist.

We also follow up on heroic names and answer listener questions about researching your story.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig lie awake and wonder — what happens to our work after we die?

Links:

• The Man of Your Dreams by Sangeeta Singh-Kurtz for The Cut
• The Brilliant Inventor Who Made Two of History’s Biggest Mistakes by Steven Johnson for The New York Times Magazine
• Pennsylvania Woman Who Disappeared in 1992 Is Found Alive in Puerto Rico by Eduardo Medina for the New York Times
• The Counterfeit Queen of Soul by Jeff Maysh for Smithsonian
• The Curious Case of the Disappearing Nuts by Peter Vigneron for Outside
• A History Professor Takes On Hollywood by Katherine Rosman for the New York Times
• This Isn’t Going to End Well: The True Story of a Man I Thought I Knew by Daniel Wallace
• Posthumously by Daniel Wallace
• The Last of Us: Soundtrack From the Series by David Fleming & Gustavo Santaolalla
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Orpheus (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Writer and director Richard LaGravenese joins Craig for an in-depth analysis of his 1994 comedy classic screenplay, THE REF. Together, Craig and Richard dig into the rules of farce, making hyper-verbal characters work, and the difference between a main character and a protagonist.

We also discuss how to write compelling monologues, engineering a character’s catharsis, and why coffee really is better with cake.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Craig and Richard discuss why it’s often so hard for men to make – and keep – close friends.

Links:

• The Ref on YouTube, Amazon and IMDb
• Richard LaGravenese on IMDb
• The Ransom of Red Chief by O. Henry
• The Ref’s Opening Scene
• Puzzled Pint’s Code Sheet
• Levain Bakery
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Matt Davis (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John returns from the negotiating room to chat with Drew about the upcoming Strike Authorization Vote. What does Strike Authorization actually mean? How do WGA members vote? And what can writers do this week before voting begins?

We also answer a question from a listener wrestling with their fears of a potential strike.

Links:

• Find complete information for the Strike Authorization Vote here.
• Find more about the 2023 WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In an extensive deep-dive, John and Craig attempt to create the definitive explanation of screenwriting credits. How are they determined? Who has copyright? And what really happens when a screenplay goes to arbitration?

In our bonus segment for premium members, we look back on the 2023 awards season and pitch a potential awards show of our own.

Links:

• WGA Additional Literary Material Credit
• Scriptnotes, Ep 20: How credit arbitration works
• Jurassic World Script Credits Resolved; Helmer Colin Trevorrow Speaks On Arbitration Process on Deadline
• Big Fish poster
• WGAw Screen Credits Manual
• WGAw Credits Department contact information
• WGAw residuals look up
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Rajesh Naroth (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Stuart Friedel and Drew Marquardt, and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig host another round of the Three Page Challenge where they look at listener pages and offer feedback on what’s working and how to avoid common pitfalls. They discuss writing gore, finding your tone, and introducing a character’s problem.

We also follow up on villains, pirates and European script consultants. We then ponder a long-nagging question: why do all action heroes have names that begin with J?

In our bonus segment for premium members, we talk about our experiences with anesthesia and how people are knocked out in The Last of Us.

Links:

• Has Anyone Ever Actually Tied a Damsel in Distress to a Railway Track? by Karl Smallwood
• Pirating the Oscars 2023: The Final Curtain Call by Andy Baio
• Why Are All Action Heroes Named Jack, James, or John? by Demetria Glace for Slate
• Follow along with our Three Page Challenge Selections: Flotsam by Sam Darcy, Sockfoot by Jesse Allard, and Spark by Rachel Thomas
• Pijja Palace
• how I found the ‘so no head’ vine road in 15 minutes by RAINBOLT
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Richie Molyneux (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig host another round of the Three Page Challenge where they look at listener pages and offer feedback on what’s working and how to avoid common pitfalls. They discuss writing gore, finding your tone, and introducing a character’s problem.

We also follow up on villains, pirates and European script consultants. We then ponder a long-nagging question: why do all action heroes have names that begin with J?

In our bonus segment for premium members, we talk about our experiences with anesthesia and how people are knocked out in The Last of Us.

Links:

• Has Anyone Ever Actually Tied a Damsel in Distress to a Railway Track? by Karl Smallwood
• Pirating the Oscars 2023: The Final Curtain Call by Andy Baio
• Why Are All Action Heroes Named Jack, James, or John? by Demetria Glace for Slate
• Follow along with our Three Page Challenge Selections: Flotsam by Sam Darcy, Sockfoot by Jesse Allard, and Spark by Rachel Thomas
• Pijja Palace
• how I found the ‘so no head’ vine road in 15 minutes by RAINBOLT
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Richie Molyneux (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back writer/producer Megana Rao to discuss techniques to explain what happened in the world of a movie before the movie began. How do we use past events as touchstones, and how does our interpretation of events become the narrative in our culture?

Then Megana tells us her story of getting staffed. How does a new writer join the WGA, and what is expected of a writer on your first day? She also answers listener questions and shares advice she’s learned from her time on our show.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Megana introduces John and Craig to Get Ready With Me videos.

Links:

• How to Become a Member of the WGA
• Conceiving the 2000s by Noah Smith
• Unscripted: The Epic Battle for a Media Empire and the Redstone Family Legacy by James B. Stewart and Rachel Abrams
• The Romantics on Netflix
• Logitech Lift Vertical Mouse
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Lex Kornelis (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig twirl their mustaches and discuss what motivates our villains. Why does past trauma lead some characters to become villains, while others become heroes? What separates good and evil, and what makes a villain great?

We also celebrate Warren Beatty’s Dick Tracy TV special, and follow up on office phones, #PayUpHollywood, and American military influence in film.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss Craig’s new tattoo of Ellie’s switchblade, and our first tattoo experiences.

Links:

• Amtel Systems
• The U.S. military’s Hollywood connection by Rebecca Keegan for Los Angeles Times
• How E-girl influencers are trying to get Gen Z into the military by Günseli Yalcinkaya for DAZED
• Warren Beatty Appears in Bizarre Dick Tracy TCM Special in Apparent Film-Rights Ploy by Dan Clarendon
• The 1000 Deaths of Wile E. Coyote by T.B.D.
• Why do good people do bad things? by Daniel Effron
• Why some people are willing to challenge behavior they see as wrong despite personal risk by Catherine A. Sanderson
• WGAw Late Pay Desk
• The Puzzling Gap Between How Old You Are and How Old You Think You Are by Jennifer Senior for The Atlantic
• Tattoo artist Yeono
• Craig’s Tattoo
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Dilo Gold (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Chris Csont and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome comedian, actor, writer and Jeopardy! champion Patton Oswalt to discuss joke structure and building standup specials. Patton pulls back the curtain on his writing process, how he develops a comedic premise, and earning an audience’s trust.

We also dissect M.O.D.O.K., punching up other people’s scripts, and the art of adaptation. We then answer a listener’s question about writing films that include standup comedy.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss characters who keep secrets for no reas– there’s no time to explain!

Links:

• Patton Oswalt on IMDb, Twitter and Instagram
• “Wackity Schmackity Doo!” from Patton Oswalt’s Werewolves and Lollipops
• Animation of Patton’s “Christmas Shoes” joke
• “The Ham Incident” from Patton Oswalt’s Finest Hour
• M.O.D.O.K. on Hulu
• Silver Screen Fiend by Patton Oswalt
• Clinical Practice Guideline for the Evaluation and Treatment of Children and Adolescents With Obesity by the American Academy of Pediatrics
• Dracula: The Evidence by Beehive Books
• Melanie Lynskey answers questions for Dear Prudence
• Murderers’ Row – Melanie Lynskey by Scout Tafoya
• The Unloved by Scout Tafoya for RogerEbert.com
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Instagram
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Timothy Lenko (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Drew discuss the WGA’s Pattern of Demands for the 2023 MBA negotiation. In order to best understand what the WGA is asking for, John explains each bullet point in detail and helps to define terms such as mini-rooms, span, new media, and two-step deals.

Links:

• Find more about the WGA negotiations here at WGAContract2023.org
• WGA Seeks Approval of ‘Pattern of Demands’ for Upcoming Studio Negotiations by Gene Maddaus for Variety
• Scriptnotes Episode 407: Understanding Your Feature Contract
• Scriptnotes Episode 553: Adapting Station Eleven
• Scriptnotes Episode 546: Limited Series
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In honor of our producer Megana Rao’s departure, John and Craig discuss how to retool a long-running show when a beloved character leaves. How should writers think about replacing them, and does it have to change the fundamental dynamics?

We also follow up on staffing while pregnant, working with child actors, and European script consultants. We then answer listener questions about contributing to ideas as an assistant, selling a show in the room, and writing under pseudonyms.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we dive into the wild and wondrous world of online prescription services.

Links:

• Woman who poisoned lookalike with cheesecake to steal identity convicted from The Guardian
• ‘The Last of Us’ Featurette with Keivonn Woodard from HBO
• The Fleishman Effect: In a city of Rachels and Libbys, the FX show has some New York moms worried they’re the ones in trouble by Caitlin Moscatello for The Cut
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by David Kawale (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Drew Marquardt with help from Chris Csont and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig discuss a doppelgänger murder, the true life of a Hollywood rebel, an unexpected roadtrip, and more in this week’s installment of How Would This Be A Movie, where we analyze how stories in the news would translate onscreen.

We also follow up on Chat GPT, Celebrity Jeopardy, and writing in other people’s voices. We then answer an embarrassed listener’s question on unfavorable movie reviews.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss overpowered characters in D&D and how character strengths factor into our own writing.

Links:

• ‘Doppelganger murder’: Woman accused of killing Instagram lookalike in plot to fake her own death By Andy Eckardt and Aina J. Khan for NBC
• The Godfather, Saudi-Style by Anuj Chopra for the Guardian
• The Last Days of Nikki Finke by Jacob Bernstein for the NYT
• The Nun and the Monk who fell in Love and Married by Aleem Maqbool for BBC
• 13 stranded strangers went on a road trip. Here’s what happened by Francesca Street for CNN
• ‘Nothing, Forever’ Is An Endless ‘Seinfeld’ Episode Generated by AI by Chloe Xiang for Vice
• Manta Sleep Mask
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Timothy Lenko (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back writer/producer/director Aline Brosh McKenna ahead of her feature directorial debut “Your Place Or Mine.” Aline discusses how tech has changed Hollywood and finding new creative challenges.

We also talk about streaming news, platform mergers, and follow up on script consultants. Megana asks about professional ambitions and we answer listener questions on firing agents and staffing while pregnant.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we go behind the scenes of Episode 3 of The Last of Us and force Craig to answer the question on everyone’s mind: what games did Bill and Frank play together?

Links:

• Watch Your Place or Mine on Netflix at 12:01am on 2/10/23
• Showtime and Paramount+ Merging, With Rebrand Planned
• ‘Westworld’ Gets New Home As Warner Bros. Discovery Strikes Roku & Tubi FAST Channel Deals
• Cancellations Of Completed Seasons Of TV Series; Experts Weigh In On Whether Trend Will Continue
• Salem 1692 Game
• Nuun Hydration Tablets
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Aline Brosh McKenna on Twitter and Instagram
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• John on Mastodon
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Megana chat about the start of the 2023 WGA negotiations. John defines terms like the AMPTP, MBA, and Pattern of Demands, and offers an overview on what the process will look like for the next few months.

John also answers listener questions on writers who are trying to break in and what a strike might mean for support staff.

Links:

• Find more about the WGA negotiations, look up your captain and member meetings here at WGAContract2023.org
• Directors Guild Says It Is Not In Their Best Interest to Begin Negotiations Ahead of Its Contract Expiration
• Scriptnotes Episode 407: Understanding Your Feature Contract
• WGA Contract Negotiations 2023: What to Expect with Adam Conover
• John on Twitter, Instagram and Mastodon
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig take a look at ‘writer fingerprints.’ They break down how idiosyncratic choices make up an individual’s style on-the-page and offer advice on how to mimic someone else’s voice.

Follow up includes pet rock, a defense of script consultants, the preface page in Tár, and the anti-“actually” mindset.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we offer advice to a producer who needs help working with a writer who can’t seem to finish — or deliver — a script.

Links:

• Scriptnotes episodes with 2023 Oscar Nominees Sarah Polley, Rian Johnson, Daniels, Pamela Ribon
• Weekend Read Beta Try it out — now updated with all FYC scripts!
• Writing in another writer’s style on John’s blog with advice from Dara Resnick Creasey
• Algorithms were able to figure out that Robert Galbraith was JK Rowling
• Good Conversations Have Lots of Doorknobs by Adam Mastroianni
• The Case of The Golden Idol game
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Luke Yoquinto, who discovered it in the score to Coming to America by Nile Rodgers (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Taffy Brodesser-Akner joins us to discuss her journey adapting her bestselling novel “Fleishman Is in Trouble” into an acclaimed limited series. We chat about drawing inspiration from the familiar, learning how manage others, and presenting multiple sides to a story.

We also answer listener questions about naming characters, decorative dialogue, and the renaissance of the television half-hour.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we dig into the art and structure of the celebrity profile, a genre in which Taffy is herself an expert.

Links:

• Fleishman Is in Trouble on Hulu, and the book
• Taffy’s GQ Celebrity Profiles
• This Film Does Not Exist By Frank Pavich for NYT, Tron reimagined by AI in the style of Jodorowsky’s Dune, images by Midjourney
• This Voice Doesn’t Exist – Generative Voice AI
• VALL-E Neural Codec Language Models are Zero-Shot Text to Speech Synthesizers
• Vintage Contemporaries by Dan Kois
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Taffy Brodesser-Akner on Twitter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Ryan Gerberding (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig invite writer/director Sarah Polley to discuss her critically acclaimed feature “Women Talking.” They cover twice-removed adaptations, the world’s best eye-roll, and the power of narration.

We also look at “Run Towards the Danger” — the title of Sarah’s book as well as her personal philosophy.

In our bonus segment, we talk about child actors. Sarah shares her perspective as a former child actor and what it’s like to have her own kids on set.

Links:

• Sarah Polley on IMDb and on Instagram
• Women Talking film and novel by Miriam Toews
• Run Towards the Danger: Confrontations with a Body of Memory By Sarah Polley
• Find the Women Talking Script by Sarah Polley here
• The DIY Scientist, the Olympian, and the Mutated Gene by David Epstein for ProPublica
• Mophie 3-in-1 Charger with MagSafe
• Till film
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Timothy Lenko (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig dissect expertise and “why you should think twice or thrice before taking someone’s advice.” They look at how survivorship bias, pride, and luck should factor into how we judge sources of authority.

We answer listener questions on raising kids in LA, writers for videogames, and Megana asks about creative-comedowns.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss natural disasters in Los Angeles. Earthquakes, storms, mudslides, floods, and fires–we’re at risk for it all!

Links:

• The Last of Us premieres on HBO 1/15/23 at 6pm!
• Can “The Last of Us” Break the Curse of Bad Video-Game Adaptations? by Alex Barasch for the New Yorker
• Use PROMO code ONION for $10 off an annual Scriptnotes Membership email help@supportingcast.fm if you run into any issues
• Scriptnotes, Episode 574: Difficult Scenes, Transcript
• Erik Grankvist’s Video of Building a Log Cabin
• Shottr screenshot app
• Humans Walk Weird. Scientists May Finally Know Why by Katrina Miller
• The Big One – Probability Earthquake Will Occur in Los Angeles
• ARK Storm and The Great Flood of 1862
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Nica Brooke (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig (and Aline!) discuss the elements of quality writing in this collection of craft conversations.

As we work on the Scriptnotes book, producer Megana Rao has been collecting wisdom from the archives to write an introductory chapter to define good writing. In these segments we cover how to find your voice, spot confidence on the page, and actively watch films.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Megana discuss the Scriptnotes book and rumors of upcoming industry strife.

Links:

• Scriptnotes Episode 239 – What is good writing?
• Scriptnotes Episode 76 – How screenwriters find their voice with Aline Brosh McKenna
• Scriptnotes Episode 432 – Learning From Movies
• Sign up for Scriptnotes Premium to listen to the episodes sampled as well as the entire archive. Use promo code ONION to save $10 on annual subscriptions.
• Dangers of Elite Projection by Jarrett Walker
• Ejaculate Responsibly: A Whole New Way to Think About Abortion by Gabrielle Blair
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Aline Brosh McKenna on Twitter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Martin Kubitzky (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao with segments by Stuart Friedel and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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In this How Would This Be a Movie case study, John interviews screenwriter William Nicholson (Les Misérables, Gladiator) on the challenges he faced with his script for Thirteen Lives, a film that follows the attempted rescue of a Thai soccer team trapped in a cave in 2018. They cover issues of life rights, competing projects, narrative point of view and cultural sensitivity.

Before that, John and Craig discuss end-of-year news in Hollywood, the recent changes to HBO Max, and what that means for creators and audiences in the new year.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss our aspirations and resolutions for 2023.

Links:

• William Nicholson on IMdB
• Watch the conversation between John and William here
• Thank you to the Writers Guild Foundation for organizing the event!
• Use Promo Code ONION for two months free in our annual Scriptnotes premium membership
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Welcome to Digital Nomadland by Kyle Jeffers for Wired
• Fleischman Is In Trouble on Hulu
• Andor
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Michael Lane (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back writer/director Rian Johnson (Glass Onion, Knives Out, Star Wars: The Last Jedi) to discuss the difference between developing a mystery vs. designing a story. Rian shares how his writing process begins with structure and how the needs of the story inform the tone of his films.

We then test ChatGPT, the AI chatbot that’s been thrilling and terrifying screenwriters, to assess how worried we should be for the future of the profession. We also answer questions on variable frame rate and politics on set.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we dive into theories and spoilers for Glass Onion. Don’t listen until you’ve watched the movie!

Links:

• Glass Onion on Netflix, December 23, 2022!
• Sign up for a Scriptnotes Premium Membership! use the PROMO CODE: ONION for four months free on your Scriptnotes annual membership. (Valid through 1/15/23)
• The 2022 World Cup is being hosted in Qatar, which, as everyone knows, is pronounced… by Sarah Lyall for NYT
• Eben Bolter’s Tweet on Variable Frame Rate
• ChatGPT
• On Airline Mapping by Daniel Huffman
• LEGO Star Wars: The Phantom Limb short film by Legg Animations, score by our own Matthew Chilelli!
• Comic Con Experience — CCP in São Paulo, Brazil
• John Dixon Carr mystery novels including Hag’s Nook and The Mad Hatter
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription! – use promo code ONION
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer/producers Al Gough and Miles Millar (Smallville, Shanghai Noon, Into the Badlands) to discuss their process of discovering new stories within familiar worlds, like in their Addams Family hit series Wednesday.

We discuss casting actors, shooting overseas, and the difference between writers’ block and story block. We also answer listener questions on one-pagers and whether aspiring screenwriters should focus on feature or television writing samples.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John asks Al and Miles their thoughts on film school and what decisions they’d make if they had to go back.

Links:

• Al Gough on Instagram
• Miles Millar on Twitter
• Wednesday on Netflix
• The Way They Were book about the movie The Way We Were
• Moleskine Notebooks
• Looking for a Christmas Gift? Buy a Scriptnotes Gift Subscription $29 for six months, or $49 for a year for a friend, click here!
• ChatGPT by OpenAi
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Adam Locke Norton (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome Daniels, writing-directing duo Dan Kwan and Daniel Scheinert (Swiss Army Man, Everything Everywhere All at Once) to discuss making big, ambitious movies. The filmmakers share their process of chasing challenging ideas and the importance of novelty seeking.

We also talk about having faith in your future self, bravery, the narrative structure of pop songs, and idea generation as a fish net.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we learn about directing music videos and the unlikely flashpoint of many of their ideas. (It’s Maroon 5. No really, it is and you have to hear the explanation.)

Links:

• Daniels on Twitter, Dan Kwan on IG
• Turn Down For What by DJ Snake and Lil Jon, Houdini by Foster the People, and The Simple Song by the Shins music videos
• Interesting Ball short film
• Everything, Everywhere All at Once
• The Territory
• Pamela Ribon’s My Year of Dicks, directed by Sara Gunnarsdóttir
• Spatchcocking
• Jumbo’s Clown Room
• Your Undivided Attention podcast
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!](https://cottonbureau.com/people/scriptnotes-podcast)
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Jordan (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig get crafty! They examine how sentence structure and word choice translate to camera direction, allowing writers to direct the reader’s eye. They offer advice on how to think about the visual and aural idea behind each noun and verb, and why the screenwriter’s task is unique.

We also discuss Disney’s leadership changes, follow up on Craig’s outline process, and answer listener questions on montages and villainizing ordinary citizens.

In our most contentious bonus segment yet, sixteen sweet treats battle it out in the first-ever Scriptnotes dessert bracket.

Links:

• Bob Iger Back As Disney CEO, Bob Chapek Out on Deadline
• Scriptnotes, Episode 543: 20 Questions with John
• David Wappel’s Twitter Thread on Anchoring Nouns
• Learn more and support the Inevitable Foundation here
• Woobles Crochet Kit, check out John’s craft here.
• AKG K702 Headphones
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Jordan (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer/performer Matt Rogers (Fire Island, Las Culturistas) for a new installment of How Would This Be A Movie. From crypto crashes to lotto longshots, this week they look at money-themed stories in the news and why they’re worth adapting.

Matt shares his background getting started as a comedy writer and tips for non-icky networking. We also answer listener questions on neglectful agents and pitching in drag.

In our bonus segment for premium members: What is culture? John and Matt define and test the bounds of what constitutes culture.

Links:

• Matt Rogers on Instagram and Tiktok
• Have You Heard of Christmas? December 2nd on Showtime and on tour, buy tickets here!
• Binance Pulls Out of Deal to Acquire Rival Crypto Exchange FTX by David Yaffe-Bellany for NYT
• Michael Lewis FTX Book
• Billion Dollar Lotto Ticket
• OnlyBans.com
• Titanique Musical in New York
• Dialogue episode where we sampled Las Culturistas Scriptnotes Episode 438
• Las Culturistas on Twitter, listen to the podcast here
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Owen Danoff (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig investigate why some scenes are so much harder to write than others, with strategies for tackling (or surrendering) to the difficulty.

We also follow up on virtual rooms, act breaks, and diversity workshops. Listener questions this week include introducing twists, getting elbowed out of your project, and whether it’s possible to be too meta?

In our bonus segment for premium members, Megana shares her experiences attending the Austin Film Festival for the first time.

Links:

• MoviePass Executives Charged with Fraud
• Warner Bros. Discovery Says It Will Keep Writers and Directors Workshops Alive, But Evolve to Conglomerate-Wide DEI Oversight
• The Six Hour Scene from John’s Blog
• Doug McGrath Austin Film Society Honoree Speech
• The Past Within – Rusty Lake
• The Fablemans
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Holly Overton (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig investigate why some scenes are so much harder to write than others, with strategies for tackling (or surrendering) to the difficulty.

We also follow up on virtual rooms, act breaks, and diversity workshops. Listener questions this week include introducing twists, getting elbowed out of your project, and whether it’s possible to be too meta?

In our bonus segment for premium members, Megana shares her experiences attending the Austin Film Festival for the first time.

Links:

• MoviePass Executives Charged with Fraud
• Warner Bros. Discovery Says It Will Keep Writers and Directors Workshops Alive, But Evolve to Conglomerate-Wide DEI Oversight
• The Six Hour Scene from John’s Blog
• Doug McGrath Austin Film Society Honoree Speech
• The Past Within – Rusty Lake
• The Fablemans
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Holly Overton (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes Marc Velez, SVP, Head of Development at UCP, on for an in-person round of the Three Page Challenge. As always, we look at listener-submitted pages and offer honest feedback, at the Austin Film Festival.

We’re joined live by each of the writers who add context and pitch their vision for each project. From near-future sci-fi to a familiar Hollywood horror story, John and Marc offer advice on how to craft a compelling opening.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we answer listener questions on noisiness, specs, and preparing other pitch materials.

Links:

• Marc Velez on IMDb
• The Encyclopedists by Michael X. Heiligenstein
• Call Me 7.14 Years Ago by Liliana Liu
• The Untimely Demise of That Awful David Schwartzman by Rudi O’Meara
• Thank you to the Austin Film Festival! and all our participants in the three page challenge.
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Jeff Graham (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes Marc Velez, SVP, Head of Development at UCP, on for an in-person round of the Three Page Challenge. As always, we look at listener-submitted pages and offer honest feedback, at the Austin Film Festival.

We’re joined live by each of the writers who add context and pitch their vision for each project. From near-future sci-fi to a familiar Hollywood horror story, John and Marc offer advice on how to craft a compelling opening.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we answer listener questions on noisiness, specs, and preparing other pitch materials.

Links:

• Marc Velez on IMDb
• The Encyclopedists by Michael X. Heiligenstein
• Call Me 7.14 Years Ago by Liliana Liu
• The Untimely Demise of That Awful David Schwartzman by Rudi O’Meara
• Thank you to the Austin Film Festival! and all our participants in the three page challenge.
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Jeff Graham (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig return to the Austin Film Festival for a raucous show with a full house. They invite Brenda Hsueh (The Afterparty, How I Met Your Mother) and Chuck Hayward (Ted Lasso, Wandavision) on to discuss breaking in, staff-able samples, and the dangers of losing your voice (literally!) in the room.

Then we welcome back Alec Berg (Barry, Silicon Valley) and Phil Hay (Mysterious Benedict Society, The Invitation) to discuss showrunning the modern comedy and making multiple seasons on streamers. We also play a game of ‘Nothing is Scary When Everything is Terrifying.’

In our bonus segment for premium members, the group answers listener questions on developing experience, development experiences, and writing turn-offs.

Special thanks to our guests and the Austin Film Festival!

Links:

• Thanks Heidi Lauren Duke for singing our intro!
• Brenda Hsueh on Instagram
• Chuck Hayward on Twitter
• Phil Hay on Twitter
• Alec Berg on IMDb
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by John Venable originally from 266 — this is the outro Jerry was looking for! (Send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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In our first live show since 2019, John and Craig welcome guests Joel Kim Booster (Fire Island), Ike Barinholtz (History of the World, part 2), Megan Ganz (Mythic Quest), and Aline Brosh McKenna (Crazy Ex-Girlfriend). They discuss writing scripted comedy vs. standup, representation, and the difficulties of being the boss.

They’re joined by The Manager We Told You to Fire, who has some choice words for the guys.

Megana asks audience questions on storyboarding, pet peeves, and advice/inspiration for aspiring writers.

Big thanks to our live audience, the staff of Dynasty Typewriter, and everyone at Hollywood Heart for putting the event together.

Links:

• Learn more and donate to Hollywood Heart!
• Joel Kim Booster on Twitter and Instagram
• Ike Barinholtz on Twitter, Instagram, and Celebrity Jeopardy!
• Megan Ganz on Twitter and Instagram
• Aline Brosh McKenna on Twitter and Instagram
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig take an in-depth look at two scenes in Damien Chazelle’s WHIPLASH to see how conflicts were structured and what changed from script to shooting.

We also discuss the myth vs. reality of Zola, and what we mean by a character having agency.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Megana discuss the seemingly sudden rise of artificial intelligence tools in creative industries.

Links:

• Buy tickets to the livestream to our live show at Dynasty Typewriter on Wednesday October 19, 2022
• Warner Brothers Writers Workshop Program News write in to ask@johnaugust.com with thoughts!
• The true story behind ‘Zola,’ the epic Twitter story too crazy to be real
• The movie Zola directed by Janicza Bravo
• Whiplash on Wikipedia
• Damien Chazelle
• Whiplash, family dinner scene, and the PDF
• Whiplash, jazz club scene, Script vs Screen, and the PDF
• Sunnybrook doctor first to perform blood-brain barrier procedure using focused ultrasound waves
• what3words
• Why the Future of AI Should Terrify and Thrill You – Plain English Podcast Derek Thompson with Kevin Roose
• Dall-E 2 and Sudowrite
• Learn more about NaNoGenMo and of course NaNoWriMo, and check out John’s panel with NaNoWriMo 10.17.22 at 6pm here!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Kim Atle (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao (this episode was originally produced by Stuart Friedel) and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome back Liz Alper (Day of the Dead, The Rookie) and Brittani Nichols (Abbott Elementary, A Black Lady Sketch Show) to discuss how much progress has been made on issues from #MeToo, #PayUpHollywood, and depictions of police on screen. We look at common threads between the movements, and the difficulty of maintaining momentum once the initial impetus has passed.

We also answer listener questions on how to deal with ethically complicated projects and why there’s still so much copaganda on television.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John tells Craig a real life fairy tale about ‘The Writer Who Left his Reps.’ It’s magical and full of hope.

Links:

• Liz Alper on Twitter
• Brittani Nichols on Twitter
• Buy Tickets for our first Live Show post-pandemic – Dynasty Typewriter Livestream October 19 at 7:30pm PT
• Are you going to Austin Film Festival? Submit to the AFF Three Page Challenge!
• List of Female Run Restaurants in Austin, TX from Melissa
• Harvey Weinstein Paid Off Sexual Harassment Accusers for Decades by Jodi Kantor and Meghan Twohey and Alyssa Milano’s Tweet and From Aggressive Overtures to Sexual Assault: Harvey Weinstein’s Accusers Tell Their Stories by Ronan Farrow for The New Yorker

• MeToo, Five Years Later: Accusers Reflect by THR Staff

• MeToo, Five Years Later: No One’s Fully Returned From “Cancellation” by Gary Baum for THR

• Check out the new survey results at the brand new #PAYUPHOLLYWOOD website
• Read the full update from ‘Christian’
• How 70 Years of Cop Shows Taught Us to Valorize the Police by Constance Grady for Vox
• Studio Response to Showrunners for Abortion Rights
• The Enduring Allure of Choose Your Own Adventure Books by Leslie Jamison for The New Yorker
• Why Your Hate Your Job by Aravind “Vinny” Byju
• Follow journalist Cerise Castle on Twitter
• Checkout Tallowtalk soaps on Etsy!
• Support the Writer Emergency Pack XL Campaign on Kickstarter
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Holly Overton (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig compare the romanticism and reality of writing. They discuss why inspiration is overvalued, why ‘bad motivations’ aren’t necessarily bad, and the rare bliss that occurs when inspiration and motivation align.

We answer listener questions on act breaks, cover the phenomenon of show-runners as promotional vehicles, and John attempts to manifest a Van Halen movie.

And in our bonus segment for premium members, we talk creepy crawlies.

Links:

• Starbucks Seam Life Hack
• John Scalzi’s Blogpost: Find the Time or Don’t
• Happy The Last of Us Day! Check out this trailer.
• Whisper by Open AI
• Tick Tock the Game
• Sign up for the Inneresting Newsletter for more writing resources!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by MCL Karman (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig analyze what lessons writers can learn from acting techniques (such as staying present) and working with actors (like staying open).

We also discuss writer retirement, how Craig’s “central dramatic argument” applies to TV, and the skill of cutting a character to save a scene.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss The Future and what we owe it.

Links:

• Writer Emergency Pack XL is funded! Support here on Kickstarter!
• Green Burial Council and Is California ready for ‘human composting’ as an alternative to casket burial, cremation? by Anabel Sosa for the LA Times
• John’s Blogpost on Fake Tears
• Scriptnotes Episode 76: How screenwriters find their voice
• Scriptnotes Episode 403: How to Write A Movie
• Patton Oswalt on King of Queens
• Cut A Character Save A Scene on John’s Blog
• Ants Outnumber Everything by Dino Grandoni for the Washington Post
• Why Question Words Start with Wh on Reddit
• Bo Shim’s LA Food Guide: Western Doma Noodles hole-in-the-wall treasure, MDK Noodles in K-town, Zzamong for Jjjangmyun, KyoChon for fried chicken–especially the honey wings, Aliya Lavaland for (lava) mooncakes, Mandarin Noodle House in Monterey Park
• What We Owe the Future by William Macaskill
• Candy Corn Infused Vodka
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig discuss movie and television stars. When do you want to cast a huge star, and when is it not a good idea? From big names in small parts to new names in big parts, they try to calculate how much fame a role requires.

We follow up on the editing process and share advice on staying nimble. We also answer listener questions on recorded pitches, writing left behind, and time management with multiple contracts.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we play a round of Two Truths and a Lie to test our deception skills.

Links:

• Get tickets for the Scriptnotes Live Show Livestream
• Order Writer Emergency Pack XL here!
• Learn more about the original Writer Emergency Pack here
• WGA No Writing Left Behind
• A Year Ago, Nicole Kidman Tried To Save The Movies. She Had No Idea What Would Come Next. by David Mack for Buzzfeed
• Murray Bartlett and his Emmy’s acceptance speech.
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Adam Pineless (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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               John invites writer/producer/actor Ashley Nicole Black (Ted Lasso, Black Lady Sketch Show) to discuss fandoms, cultural appropriation and boycotts over abortion access. They also answer simpler listener questions: What do TV producer titles really mean? When should you attach a showrunner? And what happens when you disagree with your manager? In our bonus segment for premium members, they talk parties! John and Ashley discuss the new norms for hosting people post-pandemic.                    Links:

• Our first post-pandemic live show on October 19 is sold out, but you can still get tickets to the livestream here!
• WGA West Elections
• Coalition Of 1,425 Showrunners & Directors Raises $2.5M To Help Women Gain Access To Abortions While Calling On Studios To Step Up on Deadline
• Scriptnotes Episode 533, We See and We Hear Transcript
• Find out more about Nisi Shawl and Cynthia Ward’s Writing the Other book and workshops
• Hiromi Goto’s 6 Questions on cultural appropriation
• Critics and Fans Have Never Disagreed More About Movies by Lucas Shaw for Bloomberg
• Mack’s AquaBlock Swimming Earplugs
• Thigh Society
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Ashley Nicole Black on Twitter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Bryan C. Sanchez (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig host a round of the Three Page Challenge, a segment where they offer feedback on listeners’ scripts. This week they discuss the whiplash of cutting too quickly, captivating title pages, and V.O. narration that actually works.

We also cover the return of MoviePass, 25 years of Netflix, and AI generated language.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss senior year.

Links:

• Our first post-pandemic liveshow will be on October 19, 2022 and tickets will be available to premium members on September 9!
• Order your new Scriptnotes Shirt here!
• Things I Think Are Awesome: Hunger Stones and Stability, Lynn Cherny’s substack
• Made-Up Words Trick AI Text-To-Image Generators Discover Magazine
• This Word Does Not Exist
• @Dribnet’s Twitter Thread on Splaflut
• MoviePass beta
• MoviePass Will Work This Time* Alex Kirshner writing for Slate
• Netflix turns 25
• HBO Max Cynthia Littleton for Variety
• Secret History of Mac Gaming
• Happy Halpinmas Mark Halpin’s Labor Day Puzzles
• Three Page Challenge Selections: Oculum by Larry Bambrick, We’re All Very Tired by Marissa Gawel, Wake by Jordan Johnson
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Jordan (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig answer questions from listeners teetering on the precipice of success. What projects do you take after a big win? How can you make the most money in your career? And how do you move forward when your dream project dies?

We follow up on vocal fry/linguistic tics, HBO Max’s recent announcements, and the trades.

In our bonus segment for premium members, the guys look at whether the start-up mentality of ‘failing fast’ can be applied to screenwriting.

Links:

• HBO Max to Remove 36 Titles, Including 20 Originals, From Streaming
• Gabriella’s short film recommendations: Squirrel, Bev, Savasana, Learning to Walk, Lavender, Home
• OXO Coffee Grinder
• Fluid Morph
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig welcome VFX supervisor Alex Wang (The Last of Us) and VFX producer/writer Addie Manis (Foundation) to pull back the (green screen) curtain on the visual effects production process.

We ask the VFX experts to break down a sample scene, line by line to explain how they’d turn scene description into an actual scene. From their first read to the edit, they describe how the script guides the visual language for their projects.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig talk about friends, both how to make them and how to keep them.

Links:

• Follow along with the sample scene here.
• Alex Wang on IMDb
• Addie Manis on IMDb and Twitter
• The Perils of Audience Capture by Gurwinder Bhogal
• Craig’s Favorite Laser Pointer
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Aguilera (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig discuss the confusing phenomenon of post-scriptum depression. They explain why even a good experience can feel like loss and offer tips for how to move on.

We also cover the difficulty of balancing timelines in parallel storylines. Follow up this week includes a fuller explanation of the Monty Hall and a passionate defense of short films.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss our favorite party game: Codenames.

Links:

• WGA Animation Pledge
• Scriptnotes Seasons 9 & 10, subscribe for all episodes and premium perks here
• Download Highland 2 for free if you’re a university student!
• Article Option Services The Optionist and Story Scout
• Check out the Interesting Newsletter on Shorts
• John’s short film God
• WGA Offers Trans Health Coverage
• The Rehearsal Nathan Fielder’s new show on HBO Max
• Kevin Wald’s Con Cryptics write in to ask@johnaugust.com if you can figure it out!
• Codenames Game, Codenames with Pictures, and more in the Codenames Universe!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Adam Pineless (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig tackle the third question every development executive asks: “why now?” What makes an idea relevant to the moment? They offer ways writers can think about this early on in their process, including reframing it as “how now?” instead.

We then talk about reversals and look at how they work on the page, using a scene from Chernobyl. This week’s follow up includes discussions on abortion access, post-release editing, and the impact of cancelling an almost-finished movie.

In our bonus segment for premium members, the guys debate when to engage with stupid people and when it’s best to ignore them.

Links:

• Lots of exciting updates for premium members coming up, sign up for a membership here!
• WGA Health Plan covers travel for abortion-related expenses
• More Than 400 TV Showrunners Demand Netflix, Disney and More Offer Safety Protocols in Anti-Abortion States
• Batgirl Shelved
• Netflix Retroactively Editing Stranger Things
• The Falconer by Annie Kaempfer, watch here!
• Follow along with this discussion on reversals – Chernobyl scene here, full script here.
• Antlers Do What No Other Bones Can by Katherine J. Wu for The Atlantic
• House of DaVinci 3 video game
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at visual effects from both a creative and budgetary perspective. From set extensions to blue screens, the guys discuss the hidden costs and tricks of post-production.

We also cover the options screenwriters have when optioning books. We cover formal (and less-formal) arrangements, loose adaptations and answer a listener question on making shorts.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we share our experiences with nightmares and the secret behind Craig’s anti-monster spray.

Links:

• Craig went to Comic Con 2022 to Moderate a Mythic Quest Panel
• Will Netflix be Alright? by Dave Karpf
• God John’s 1998 short film
• Stray Annapurna videogame
• Raising the Stakes videos
• How to Make a Blockbuster Trailer
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Adam Pineless (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig weigh in on writing partner romances, voice-y scripts, character chemistry and end-of-draft treats in this week’s listener questions.

We also host a round of How Would This Be A Movie, featuring stories on treasure hunts, jailed activists, and a sports scam. We look at how these news articles would translate to film/television and most importantly, whether they should be adapted at all.

In our bonus segment the guys share hacks for remembering new people and make a pitch for name tags on set.

Links:

• Eric Webb’s Twitter and Memorial Fundraiser
• Mystery of the Buried Owl by Phil Hoad for the Guardian
• Rodney Stotts Used to Hustle Drugs in Southeast DC. Now He’s One of the Few Black Master Falconers in America by Rodney Stotts for the Washingtonian
• This lawyer should be world-famous for his battle with Chevron – but he’s in jail by Erin Brockovich for the Guardian
• It Really Wasn’t Cricket: The Strange Case of the Fake Indian Premier League by Sameer Yasir for the NY Times
• Werewords Game
• Tiramisu Recipe in the New York Times
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Sign Up for the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Owen Danoff (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig are back together! They discuss the magnetism that draws viewers into a story, pulls characters together and pushes them through the narrative.

We follow up on adulting, gun violence and remote writers rooms. We also look at the new animation writer contract and the CW sale.

For our premium members, check out our bonus episode with the creator of Wordle and the author of 50 Years of Text Games about ways to use words for fun and profit.

Links:

• Animation Guild Members Ratify New Three-Year Contract
• As Nexstar Deal For Control Of The CW Nears Finish, Ownership Structure Comes Into Focus
• John’s Adulting Twitter Thread
• Invisible Storm: A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD by Jason Kander
• Fire Island by Joel Kim Booster on Hulu
• Heartstopper Series on Netflix and Graphic Novel by Alice Osman
• James Webb Space Telescope
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Adam Pineless (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig revisit their analysis of the iconic 1995 comedy Clueless.

A contemporary adaptation of Jane Austen’s Emma set in Beverly Hills, Clueless follows protagonist Cher as she tries to do ‘good’ through make-over montages and match-making attempts. We discuss how the movie sets up the characters in the first ten minutes, why Cher’s voiceover works so well, and how Clueless ushered in a new era of teen movies.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig share their own experiences learning to drive and how they’re preparing to teach their teenage daughters driving.

Links:

• Clueless
• Clueless Script
• 8D sound example
• Creme Mains hand creme
• O’Keefe’s Working Hands cream
• Sign up for Scriptnotes Premium here.
• John August on Twitter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Ryan Dunn (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

UPDATE 4-11-20 The transcript can be found here.

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John and Craig take a look at flashbacks: reasons to incorporate them, how to manage nonlinear storylines, and when it’s too late include one.

We cover ‘Side Character Summer’ and three words that ruin a screenwriter’s day. We also answer listener questions on writing partner break-ups, managers, and remote rooms.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we look at the markers of adulthood.

Links:

• Kate Bush’s Running Up That Hill reaching number one on the pop charts
• Beyonce’s Break My Soul
• Side Character Summer by Lolaokola on IG
• Jeremiah Lewis’s tweet @fringeblog Ruin A Screenwriter’s Day in Three Words
• Scriptnotes Ep. 10: Good Actors and Bad Writing Partners
• Flashbacks and dreams on the blog
• Reddit’s Cutaway Porn
• Smart AoE
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Sam Brady (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig are back together! They chat about the box office (it’s also back!), guns in Hollywood, writing credits, and follow up on what to call the [interstitial] page in a script.

We answer listener questions on imperfect story logic, writing authentically in a different language, and when it’s time to be a team player.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we talk about penmanship! Craig encounters the ultimate puzzle: John’s handwriting.

Links:

• Sign up for updates on the Scriptnotes Book
• Box Office Balancing Test: How Many Tentpoles Can Share a Weekend?
• Judd Apatow, Shonda Rhimes and other Hollywood creators sign gun petition
• Magic ARRI ViewFinder on the App store!
• Alex Hirsch’s Gravity Falls Tweet
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Lachlan Marks (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John invites Michael Waldron (Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Loki) to share his origin story and offer advice on how to make the most of film school/internship opportunities.

We discuss writing characters that cross the TV/film barrier and answer listener questions on preparing for success, looking for rejection, and how to track ideas.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss what writers need to know about working in Atlanta.

Links:

• Michael Waldron on Twitter and on Instagram
• Donate blood with the Red Cross #BloodforBreck
• “Prove to the World You’ve Lost Your Son” by Elizabeth Williamson for Slate from Sandy Hook: An American Tragedy and the Battle for Truth
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Ryan Gerberding (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig offer guidance on wrangling groups of characters. This episode features a collection of craft topics that address how to build community on the page. They cover how to introduce relationships, structure features with multiple protagonists, reasons to split up the group, and how to reunite characters.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Megana welcome our summer intern Drew Marquardt to discuss group dynamics in Stranger Things season four, part one. (Warning: conversation contains spoilers and unabashed Steve Harrington adoration.)

Links:

• Scriptnotes Episode 360: Relationships
• Scriptnotes Episode 395: All in this Together
• Scriptnotes Episode 383: Splitting the Party
• Stranger Things on Netflix
• Hydroviv Water Filter
• Blot 2046 Manifesto
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Rajesh Naroth (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao (ft. our summer intern Drew Marquardt and segments by Megan McDonnell) and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer/showrunner Patrick Somerville to explore the development process for Station Eleven. From finding the source material, organizing the writers room, to writing production drafts, they walk through the steps of creating a limited series. Along the way, Patrick explains how he transitioned careers from novelist to television writer, and advises a listener on prepping for staffing meetings.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Patrick discuss creating a pandemic show during a pandemic.

Links:

• Follow along with the Station Eleven pilot discussion! Read all of the Station Eleven scripts here.
• Station Eleven the series on HBO
• Station Eleven the book by Emily St. John Mandel
• Patrick Somerville on Twitter
• All about Love: New Visions by bell hooks
• Time in Ethiopia
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Pedro Aguilera (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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The original post for this episode can be found here. John August: Hello and welcome. My name is John August, and this is Episode 547 of Scriptnotes, a podcast about screenwriting and things that are interesting screenwriters. Today on the show, we live on a planet experiencing climate change, yet the stories we tell tend […] The post Scriptnotes, Episode 547: Good Energy, Transcript first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig host a round of the Three Page Challenge where they look at listener pages and offer feedback on what’s working and how to avoid common pitfalls. This week we look at time jumps, reveals, and ticker-tape dialogue. We follow up on confusing credits, then answer listener questions on narrative geography, professional development and when it’s okay to take your pitch somewhere else. In our bonus segment for premium members, the guys share the secret to social media.

Links:

• Ryan’s Elvis Question on Twitter
• Follow along with our Three Page Challenge Selections: Tag – You’re It by Suw Charman-Anderson, Halloween Party by Lucas Abreu & Zachary Arthur & Kyle Copier, Belly Up by Emme Harris
• Blockbuster, the Party Game
• The Hanger Reflex
• Sara Schaefer Silence Video
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writers John Hoffman (Only Murders in the Building, Looking) and Brittani Nichols (Abbott Elementary, A Black Lady Sketch Show) to bring us behind the scenes of the comedy writers room. They explain ‘alts’ (alternative line jokes), crafting tone, and the process of pitching.

We also discuss the sophomore season and different comedic engines. We answer listener questions on whether you need to live in LA and how to choose a writing sample.

In our bonus segment for premium members, the group chats about being openly queer writers in Hollywood.

Links:

• Only Murders in the Building on Hulu
• Abbott Elementary on ABC/Hulu
• John Hoffman on Twitter
• Brittani Nichols on Twitter
• Remittance by the Barrel by Ameena Walker
• The Knock LA Voter Guide
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig discuss the mechanics of getting characters in and out of scenes. They cover why writers might show a character’s entrance or exit, both what it accomplishes for the story and the expectations it sets up for the audience. We get an update from ‘Please Convince Me to Drop Out of Film School’ […] The post Entrances and Exits first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig discuss the mechanics of getting characters in and out of scenes. They cover why writers might show a character’s entrance or exit, both what it accomplishes for the story and the expectations it sets up for the audience.

We get an update from ‘Please Convince Me to Drop Out of Film School’ and answer listener questions on mortifying managers, cocktail conversations, and whether or not to use trigger warnings in a script.

In our bonus segment for premium members, the guys discuss the longevity movement and whether they’d choose to live forever.

Links:

• The Room – “Oh hi Mark” clip
• Scriptnotes, Episode 543: 20 Questions with John, Transcript
• Los Angeles Arts District: Hauser + Wirth, Night Gallery, Death + Company, Manuela
• Knotwords Game
• Upstep Orthotics
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Owen Danoff (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes Willa Paskin on to discuss Sideways Effect, centering on an episode of her podcast Decoder Ring. Willa looks at how dialogue in the 2004 film upended the red wine industry. John and Willa then look at other movie moments that have have shaped cultural behavior, including Clark Gable’s missing t-shirt sales and the scene that inspired the name Madison. Willa shares her research and writing process for a nonfiction podcast. In our bonus segment for premium members, Craig is finally back! We catch him up on what he’s missed and hear what he’s been up to.

Links:

• Decoder Ring and the Sideways Effect Episode
• Sideways Movie
• Willa Paskin on Slate and on Twitter
• A “Sideways” Supply Response in California Winegrapes by Travis Lybbert for the Journal of Wine Economics
• Snopes on Clark Gable and Undershirts and Madison Name from the Movie Splash
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Aline Brosh McKenna welcome writing team Dan Gregor and Doug Mand (How I Met Your Mother, Most Likely to Murder, Chip ’n Dale Rescue Rangers) to chat about made-to-stream movies. They discuss the joys of niche IP and how changes in the film landscape have resurrected certain genres.

We follow up on ‘Murder House Architecture’ and the economics of shorter seasons. We also answer listener questions on gender-neutral casting, pilot presentations, and page density.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss life and work with newborns.

Links:

• Chip ’n Dale: Rescue Rangers May 20th on Disney+
• Your Place or Mine coming soon!
• Los Angeles Plays Itself
• Presentations versus Pilots
• New York Shuk for Saucy Boys
• Radiooooo App
• Lost Pilot read the script here.
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Dan Gregor on Twitter
• Doug Mand on Twitter
• Aline Brosh Mckenna on Twitter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Pedro Aguilera (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John invites Anna Jane Joyner and Quinn Emmett from Good Energy Stories to discuss climate change on screen. Climate change affects every creature on our planet, so why don’t we see it more on television? They discuss opportunities for writers to inspire change and raise awareness to capture the environmental concerns of our time. We follow up on disability representation in Hollywood with the release of the Cost of Accommodations report from the Inevitable Foundation.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we talk about asking people for money, whether it’s to finance a movie or launch a campaign to save the planet.

Links:

• Stanislav Petrov, The Man Who Saved the World Documentary
• Download The Cost of Accommodations Report from the Inevitable Foundation and read more on The Hollywood Reporter
• Good Energy Stories Playbook
• David Robert Ted Talk on Climate Change
• Years of Living Dangerously Clip with Anna and her Dad
• Subscribe to Important, Not Important
• Dana Fox on Twitter and checkout The Lost City Movie
• Russian Doll Season 2
• Redactle Game
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Anna Jane Joyner on Twitter
• Quinn Emmett on Twitter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Jade Carda (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John invites Anna Jane Joyner and Quinn Emmett from Good Energy Stories to discuss climate change on screen. Climate change affects every creature on our planet, so why don’t we see it more on television? They discuss opportunities for writers to inspire change and raise awareness to capture the environmental concerns of our time. We […] The post Good Energy first appeared on John August.

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This week's episode is airing on Thursday 4/28!

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John welcomes writer/creators Liz Meriwether (New Girl, The Dropout) and Liz Hannah (The Girl from Plainville, The Post) to discuss the genre/form of “limited series based on actual events.” Meriwether and Hannah explain what compelled them to each project and the process of realizing each story on screen. We also play a lightning round of How Would This Be A Movie, looking at movements like ‘Birds Aren’t Real’ and #FreeBritney. In our bonus segment for premium members, the Lizzes share their experiences making their shows while pregnant.

Links:

• The Dropout on Hulu and The Dropout Podcast
• The Girl from Plainville Show and the Esquire article by Jesse Barron
• Liz Meriwether
• Liz Hannah on Twitter
• Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid by Jonathan Haidt for the Atlantic
• Notorious Alfred Hitchcock Film
• AI art – MidJourney and Dall-E
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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Episode 546 with Liz Meriwether and Liz Hannah will be released on Thursday 4/21/22 - we promise it's worth the wait!

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John talks with Joan Rohlfing (Nuclear Threat Initiative, U.S. Department of Energy) and author/reporter David E. Hoffman (Washington Post) about nuclear energy, nuclear safety and nuclear war — both the current reality and how these issues are portrayed in Hollywood.

Joan and David explain how the nuclear landscape has changed over the decades, the stories Hollywood has missed, and the importance of getting them right moving forward.

Thanks to our friends at Hollywood Health & Society for helping put this episode together.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Megana catch up on Scriptnotes behind-the-scenes from the past few weeks, including John’s not-great-not-terrible Covid experience.

Links:

• Joan Rohlfing and the Nuclear Threat Initiative and on Twitter
• David E. Hoffman and his books, including Pulitzer winner The Dead Hand: The Untold Story of the Cold War Arms Race and its Dangerous Legacy
• Dall-E-2
• MidJourney
• Atomic Veterans
• Book Give Me Liberty by David E. Hoffman
• Reykjavík summit of 1986 between Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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This week's episode of Scriptnotes is going to be released on Thursday not Tuesday. We'll be back on a normal Tuesday schedule soon!

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Craig answers listener questions ranging from craft to career: how do you find your voice? What questions should you ask before writing a new project? When should silence carry a scene? Craig offers professional advice and gets dangerously close to starting a cult.

We follow up on Barton Fink, writer’s block, and keyboards.

In our bonus segment for premium members, Craig and Megana discuss millennials and how Hollywood can invest in R&D.

Links:

• Logitech K860 has Bluetooth!
• Take this typing test – Craig got a 110 wpm!
• Barton Fink
• Chernobyl, Chernobyl Podcast and The Dropout
• 60 Seconds With Emily Cox and Henry Rathvon and puzzle here
• Not Past It Podcast
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John answers listener questions on craft and industry. When are you ready to send a script? How do you rewrite scenes during production? Is it cool to take a picture with your celebrity crush on set? John offers professional advice for writers on the page and in real life.

We follow up on screenwriter dexterity (typing speed) and ergonomic keyboards.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Megana discuss ‘Murder House Architecture.’ What makes contemporary homes so scary and who are the contractors constructing these basements?

Links:

• Patton Oswalt in King of Queens Scene
• ZSA Moonlander
• Compare Your Typing Speed Against ours here!
• Phoebe Waller Bridge – 73 Questions with Vogue
• Residuals for High-Budget Subscription Video on Demand (HBSVOD) Programs from the WGA
• Paul Stamets on Seven Mycoattractant and Mycopesticide Patents released to Commons!
• Under a White Sky: The Nature of the Future by Elizabeth Kolbert
• Murder House Architecture
• Samantha Hartsoe’s TikTok NYC Apartment
• Ohio State Students Discover Students Living in Basement
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Ben Gerrior (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig investigate backstabs and double-crosses onscreen and share how writers can set up plot twists on the page.

We answer listener questions on imposter syndrome, negative feedback, and hear about John’s journey to find the right ergonomic keyboard. We also follow up on meet-cutes, charismatic aspiring writers, and angry costume designers.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we discuss which reality competition show we’d enter and how we’d win.

Links:

• ‘Better Nate Than Ever’ Filmmaker on Disney’s Handling of “Don’t Say Gay” Bill: “Good Representation Does Not Cancel Out Bad Legislation”
• MGM joins Amazon Prime Studios
• Kinesis Ergo Keyboard
• John’s Old Keyboard set up with SafeType
• Subscribe to the Inneresting Newsletter and read our issue on betrayals here!
• Murderville on Netflix
• Logitech ERGO K860 Wireless Split Keyboard
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Matthew Chilelli (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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The link to this post can be found here. John August: Hello and welcome. My name is John August. Craig Mazin: My name is Craig Mazin. John: This is Episode 536 of Scriptnotes, a podcast about screenwriting and things that are interesting to screenwriters. Today on the show we look at adaptation, both how screenwriters […] The post Scriptnotes, Episode 536: Adaptation and Transition, Transcript first appeared on John August.

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John and Craig breakdown the ideal attributes of the “screenwriter” character. Looking at the ratio of craft to charm, they debate which combinations lead to success in Hollywood.

We also host a round of the Three Page Challenge. Samples this week range from stories on earthquakes to community theatre, but all feature surprising reveals. The guys offer advice on cutting scenes, introducing characters, and punching up dialogue.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig discuss a Vanity Fair article on film score production and rumors of ghostwriting for composers.

Links:

• Follow alone with our Three Page Challenge selections The Man Who Could be Macbeth by Daniel Brace, Pizza Boy by Mick Jones, Evergreenby Heather Kennedy, Scavenger by Phil Saunders.
• WGA East Settles Five-Day Strike Against G/O Media
• RSVP for the Animation Guild Rally Sunday 3/20 at 2pm in Burbank, CA
• ‘Copshop’ Screenwriter Sues Zero Gravity Management For Breach of Contract
• ScreenSkills To Fund Accessibility Co-Ordinators For British TV
• Behind the Tweets: “Rewrite Map” by Jeffrey Lieber on WGAW Connect
• Scriptnotes Episode 530: The One with Jack Thorne
• David Iserson’s Tweet on Great Scripts
• Touring the MOST EXPENSIVE HOUSE in the United States! on Youtube and The Queen of Versailles
• The Astrologer on Elden Ring
• “The Minions Do the Actual Writing”: The Ugly Truth of How Movie Scores Are Made by Mark Rozzo for Vanity Fair
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Joe Palen (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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John and Craig bump into/trip over/spill coffee on the ‘Meet-Cute.’ They look at the history and mechanics of that moment when two lead characters meet each other in a romantic comedy, with advice to writers on how to keep it fresh. We answer listener questions on packing for set, branding yourself as a writer, and staggered success in a relationship.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we talk about onboarding, specifically in the game Elden Ring.

Links:

• Volodymyr Zelensky and the ongoing war in Ukraine
• Does Hollywood Ruin Books? by Numberphile on Youtube on Berkson’s Paradox
• Check out the Inneresting Newsletter and the Meet-Cute edition here!
• Scriptnotes 433: The One with Greta Gerwig
• Elden Ring video game
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John welcomes writer/director Leigh Whannell (Saw, Upgrade, Invisible Man) and astrophysicist/science consultant Dr. Erin Macdonald (Star Trek) to explore the science of sci-fi. They follow the evolution of an idea through the brainstorm to edit phase, advising how to titrate the proper amount of fact to fiction along the way.

We look at how science can catalyze a story in a round of How Would This Be A Movie. Topics range from solar storms, evil artificial intelligence, human chimeras, and advanced spacefaring civilizations.

In the bonus segment for premium members, we discuss Leigh’s proposal for an 80’s shopping mall theme park experience.

Links:

• Ed Solomon’s Tweet on MIB Movie Accounting
• What is a Dyson sphere? and Dyson spheres on Wikipedia
• What is a Human Chimera? and Becoming Two People At Once
• Stephen King’s The Dark Half
• The Science Behind the Endgame Snap and Minimum Viable Population
• Rokos Basilisk: The Most Terrifying Thought Experiment of All Time
• There is No Antimemetics Division by qntm
• Are Solar Storms Dangerous to Us? and How We’ll Safeguard Earth From a Solar Storm Catastrophe
• The adorable love story behind Wikipedia’s ‘high five’ photos by Annie Rauwerda for Input
• A Collapse of Horses a short story collection by Bryan Evanston
• We Could be Heroes by Mike Chen
• Leigh Whannell on Twitter and Leigh’s 80’s mall tweet
• Erin Macdonald on Twitter
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Contra Entropy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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John and Craig discuss the craft of leading a creative life: What counts as practice? How do you make friends? When is it okay to take a break?

A Scriptnotes listener suggested a lifestyle compendium episode, so we reach back through the archives to explore the artist’s soft skills. We touch on the dangers of self care, the importance of staying curious, and how to cultivate a workplace when you’re working alone.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we invite listener Jake Kelley on to explain why he chose these clips and how Scriptnotes has influenced his visual art practice.

Links:

• Episode 6: How Kids Become Screenwriters
• Episode 119: Positive Moviegoing
• Episode 425: Tough Love vs. Self Care
• Episode 439: How to Grow Old as a Writer
• Sign up for Scriptnotes Premium to listen to all the episodes in our back catalogue, including the ones sampled here.
• Thanks to Jake Kelley for the episode suggestion!
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Aline Brosh McKenna on Twitter
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Christiaan Mentz (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao (with segments by Stuart Friedel, Godwin Jabangwe, and Megan Mcdonnell!) and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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John invites writer/creator Michael Schur (The Office, Parks and Recreation, The Good Place) to discuss the history of comedy, specifically the evolution of the half hour sitcom. We also cover moral philosophy, working with experts, and coming up with new projects. Mike explains why ‘inside-out’ ideas tend to be more successful shows.

In our bonus segment for premium members John asks Mike about writers room jargon.

Links:

• Michael Schur on Twitter
• How to be Perfect by Michael Schur
• Todd May, academic papers here, books here
• The Poscast by Joe Posnanski and Mike Schur
• TV Writers Room Terms
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Nico Mansy (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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John and Craig talk about adapting in Hollywood: the process of reimagining existing properties for the screen and career transitions. They cover why some adaptations don’t work, revisiting source material, and developing projects with public domain intellectual property. We offer advice to writers on adapting to a changing industry and returning to writing after a major life event. Follow up this week includes the first Scriptnotes TikTok, relationship advice, and the perils of main character energy.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we appeal to our grammar nerds as we discuss writing with “to be,” the generic you, and indefinite pronouns.

Links:

• Movie Pass is Back!
• Script Speaker
• Check out our first (and only) Scriptnotes TikTok — thank you to Drew Rosas for editing the audio!
• Fleabag Season 2, check out our episode with Phoebe Waller Bridge here!
• First Time Screenwriters Contest
• Your Ears are Plugged by the Oatmeal
• Australian Survivor Season 6
• The Last Campfire
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Owen Danoff (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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John and Craig discuss the Main Character Energy meme. What does it mean for writers when real life people cast themselves in the leading role? We break down main characters vs. protagonists and the danger of life imitating art. We answer listener questions on do-not-read lists and verb tenses. Follow up this week includes: a how-to guide on firing reps, relationship advice on unsupportive partners, and liberation of the screenplay format.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig discuss population, specifically how we went from worrying about overpopulation to underpopulation in a span of decades.

Links:

• Fans Are Suing Universal Pictures Because a 2019 Movie Didn’t Include Ana de Armas
• How Sweet Fresh Meat clip on YouTube
• Main Character Energy: Interiority in a world of screens by Coco Klockner for Real Life Mag
• We All Have “Main-Character Energy” Now by Kyle Chayka for the New Yorker
• Rediscovering ‘The Truman Show’ in the age of Main Character Syndrome by Mischa Anouk Smith for Far Out Magazine
• Gary Gulman’s The Great Depresh Kidnapping Hoax
• Main Character Energy and Narcissism – Inneresting Newsletter by Chris Csont
• The Afterparty on Apple TV from Lord Miller, First Ep on YouTube
• Malthusianism
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Julia Hostetler (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig look at midpoints, the murky middle of the movie, and why writers shouldn’t overthink them.

We follow up on script formatting, firing your reps, screenplay “rules,” and how Sisyphus can achieve happiness. We answer listener questions on omitted scenes and imaginative children.

In our bonus segment for premium members, John and Craig debate the ethics and issues surrounding NFTs.

Links:

• Bo Yeon Kim’s Tweet on Bong Joon-Ho’s MOTHER Script
• Script University’s 20 Common Sense Script Rules, in No Particular Order
• Read Aloud Software Suggestions Table Read, ZoomText, JAWS, VoiceDream
• DnD for kids Level 1 Geek and Being a Dungeon Master for Kids
• Flee animated film
• Wikipedia Timeline Game
• Papers, please by Lucas Pope
• NFT Articles Why it’s too early to get excited about Web3 by Tim O’Reilly, My First Impressions of Web3 on the Moxie Marlinspike Blog, Blockchain-based systems are not what they say they are by Molly White
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by William Phillipson (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

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John and Craig rant about prohibitive screenwriting advice and declare their allegiance to the “we see/we hear” convention. They analyze scripts from this year’s awards season to argue good story trumps all else.

We also answer questions on screenplay fundamentals from parantheticals, action lines to script length.

In our bonus segment for premium members, we consider: what is the screenwriting equivalent of boot camp?

Links:

• The CW is for sale!
• Annie Hayes on Writing with an Invisible Illness on John’s blog
• Being the Ricardos by Aaron Sorkin
• The Lost Daughter by Maggie Gyllenhaal
• The Mitchells vs. the Machines by Mike Rianda And Jeff Rowe
• Passing by Rebecca Hall
• Belfast by Kenneth Branagh
• Tick, Tick, Boom by Steven Levenson
• Willy Wonka Script at the johnaugust.com library!
• Vigil show
• MIT Mystery Hunt 2022
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by William Brink (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

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The original post for this episode can be found here.

John August: Hello and welcome. My name is John August and this is Episode 526 of Scriptnotes, a podcast about screenwriting and things that are interesting to screenwriters. Craig is stuck on a mountain in Canada this week, so I’ve convinced several previous Scriptnotes guests to come on the show with the promise that I’d ask each of them a single question. First I’ll be talking with Phil Hay and Matt Manfredi about moving their show from Canada to California. Then I’ll check in with Aline who is busy directing her first movie. And I’ll chat with Stephen Follows who has never actually been a guest on the show, but we’ve mentioned a bunch of times. He’s that data scientist who helped us look at the one page per minute rule of thumb and tracking down movies you can’t find anywhere. I asked Stephen to make his best pitch for going to college and film school in particular. So obviously this episode that Craig is not around to argue with him about.

Now for premium members stick around at the end where Stephen and I will discuss how to best answer the question of whether screenplay competitions are ever worth it. Stephen challenges the premise of the question but also helps apply some scientific rigor to the investigation.

Now, before we get to any of that there’s some news to get through first. So I’m joined by the master of Google sheets, baker of delicious desserts, co-founder of #PayUpHollywood, Liz Hsiao Lan Alper. Liz, welcome.

Liz Hsiao Lan Alper: Hi. Thanks John. Thank you so much for having me back.

John: Oh, thank you for being on this first and most crucial part of the news wrap up thing, because it’s so awkward when it’s just me talking through this.

Liz: I completely understand. I do that just by myself where I’m just talking to myself doing news wrap ups. It’s just always awkward.

John: It is. Now we are going to talk about some important things but nothing can be more important than what you’re baking at this moment. Because you have brought amazing desserts to my house before. What are you looking forward to baking this holiday season?

Liz: So honestly I’ve been perfecting – I think you saw this on Twitter – but I’ve been perfecting Arnold Palmer pie. This is my pride and joy. So it’s a lemon pie that also has an unsweetened iced tea gelee on top. So it’s a very half and half pie. And when you take a bite it’s supposed to remind you of the summertime. I’ve been perfecting this recipe for a few months now and we’re getting very, very close. I think I might have to drop something off at your house pretty soon.

John: I’m excited now. I can imagine this is a big pie, but I could also imagine it as sort of single serving kind of like ramekin kind of things. Like how are you doing this?

Liz: So before it was going to be just a single eight-inch pie and now I’m realizing it’s almost better to do the individual pies. So, if you get a muffin tin, if you use the muffin tin you fill up each muffin tin with a little bit of the graham cracker crumb, a little bit of the condensed milk/lemon mixture, and then just a little bit of the gelee. It makes it so that you actually have something that you can hold in your hand as you’re walking. And you don’t have to worry about it falling apart. So it’s an on-the-go pie.

John: That sounds amazing. Now, that’s the fun part of this, but let’s get to the actual work of this episode which is that you have a new survey going out and we want to hear about this. So this is a survey for support staff?

Liz: Yes. So this is the #PayUpHollywood third annual support staff survey. This is the third time that we’ve been putting out a survey strictly for entertainment staff, but this is the first time that we’re actually expanding the reach to not just people in New York, Albuquerque, other American cities where entertainment support staffers are based, but we’re also looking beyond American borders into Canada, into Mexico, into the UK, and specifically trying to get a sense of what it’s like in the entertainment business outside there.

And then we’re also going to be tracking how over the last three years pay has increased, how abuses may have been eradicated in the workplace, or any other loopholes that might have come out of the pandemic. We as writers, we’ve been seeing an uptick in different problems that came out of the pandemic we hadn’t experienced before. The same is going to be the same for support staff. And so we’re trying to make sure that we’re getting a good wide group of not just writer assistants and script coordinators and desk assistants, but also that we’re reaching out to the people who work in production and work in reality television and work in commercials so we can see where the trends are happening just across the board.

John: Now people might be listening to this wondering am I the kind of person who needs to be filling out this form for Liz and getting her the data she needs. So we’re going to put a link in the show notes that has a link to the Google form which is sort of the introductory form that really lists these are the kinds of jobs that you’re looking for. These are the kind of people in these positions. So if you have a question about whether you’re the right person to be filling this out click the link and you’ll see whether you actually are a good fit for what we need to know.

Liz: Mm-hmm.

John: Cool. Now some of the world of assistants and support staff has changed a bit with the adoption of this new IATSE deal. So let’s talk a bit about that because one of the things we were always looking at when we looked at assistant pay in Hollywood was that there are some of these jobs which are union jobs. So script coordinators and writer’s room assistants can be union jobs. And they actually got a pay increase in this last round of negotiations.

Liz: Yeah. They actually received a massive pay increase. And I know that there were many members who were hoping for more simply because the wages for script coordinators and writer’s assistants has not kept in line with the cost of living for at least the last decade. So I think there was a lot of hope that there would be one massive leap that would bring all of the pay in alignment with what current times actually require.

What they’re going to be making nowadays is $23.50 an hour. That’s the absolute minimum. I know a lot of studios like to call that scale. It’s not scale. It’s just the absolute lowest that you can pay a union assistant to be on the show. And it absolutely should be going up after you factor in experience, responsibilities, the workload that that particular assistant is going to be carrying. But the nice thing is it does mean that anyone who is entering into an entry level position, anyone who maybe hasn’t been a writer’s assistant before, hasn’t been a script coordinator before, can now be assured that they’re going to be making something that’s much closer to a living wage than the $15/$16 an hour that they were making previously.

So, it’s a huge step. It’s a huge step. And it’s a great first step into making sure that three years from now when there’s another round of negotiations that those assistants are getting even closer to what a living wage would be considered, which I believe for a lot of them it was anywhere between $27 and $32 an hour. So $23.50 is much closer to $32 than $16 is, is the way that I look at it.

John: The point that you brought up earlier on the show is that the actual hourly rate is an important factor, but how many hours you’re guaranteed to work in a week is in some cases an even bigger factor. And so if some of these people were working under 60-hour guarantees, that’s great. But if they get cut back to 40 hours that’s not enough take home pay to be survivable in Los Angeles.

Liz: No, you’re absolutely right about that. If you are working for $16 for 60-hour weeks you would actually be making more than what you would be if you were working for 40 hours at $23.50. So the biggest thing that any of us, you, me, Craig, any writers or any employers who are really trying to make sure that writer’s assistants and script coordinators are taking home a living wage, it’s making sure that we can guarantee them 60 hours or as close to 60 hours a week as humanly possible, because I believe the studios now are going to try and cut everybody back down to 40. I’m sure that there’s going to be a freeze on any sort of overtime which is a little ridiculous only because we know how intensive those jobs are. I can’t imagine a script coordinator getting everything done in 40 hours a week.

But that is something that you can’t negotiate in the MBA. So they do need to make sure that for us, our part in it, is going to be making sure that they’re making the hours and IATSE is going to be sure that they’re making the hourly wage. So, between the two of us hopefully we can get people paid what they’re worth.

John: Now this pay increase was only the small part of a much bigger IATSE deal which was signed and approved this last week. So this was a membership vote. The membership vote was closer than we’re sort of ever used to on a WGA level. There’s a complicated Electoral College kind of system by which the IATSE approves its contracts because locals have to vote and there’s whole things. But the popular vote in some cases was against this deal. Overall when all the delegates are counted the deal passed. But tighter than you would expect, and especially for something that did seem to make significant progress but didn’t make as much progress as a lot of members hoped.

Liz: You have to figure that what happened on the set of Rust and the fact that there was a big uprising and acknowledgment that sets often become unsafe and are demanding so much of set members that it becomes almost deadly in certain situations. And because proposals to fix that weren’t actually on the table to begin with, that’s kind of one of the things that can’t get added later on. That doesn’t mean that they’re not wrong. And it doesn’t mean that they don’t need to be fixed. But I do understand why it became so close because I think there were a lot of people that were really hoping to make some change in the way that we approach work hours and set work hours and how we treat people not as though they’re disposable but as though they’re living, breathing human beings who need reasonable rest in order to function doing their jobs.

And so it’s hard. And John I’m interested to hear what you think, but I think for me one of the bright spots that I have been seeing is how many people are now actively trying to get more involved in the union because they’re realizing that this is a way to eradicate some of the abuses that they’ve been going through and they don’t need to accept it as just this is the way that it’s always been, they’re seeing that well now that we’re demonstrating the power that our union has we can actually use this power to further our betterment for all of the members.

John: Absolutely. I think it’s the recognition that the union is the members and the members are the union. And you looked at the #IAStories Instagram account that sort of really galvanized a lot of the support, particularly about working hours, and it’s the recognition that those people they’re not just a force you gin up every three years to get people excited and get some progress made on the contract. Once they’re revved up and riled up they’re going to be asking for accountability and some changes. And so I would not be surprised to see if we see some internal struggles within IA and some bigger developments happening because you have a bunch of suddenly engaged people who recognize that they did have power all this time.

Liz: Yeah. I think that’s great. I think hopefully for all of us, too, who aren’t IA members but who supported the IA efforts we’ll be back there in three years supporting them just like we did now. And so I think that’s going to be really important to remember come the next negotiations is that no matter what when it comes to worker safety that matters to everybody. That matters to everybody and we should show our support no matter how we can.

John: Now IATSE wasn’t the only big vote in Hollywood this last week. WGA members have voted to approve a new end credit for feature films, one that will show up in online databases like IMDb as well. Beginning in 2022 we’ll start seeing the credit additional literary material which will list all screenwriters who worked on a film who did not receive traditional writing credit like screenplay by or written by.

This was an actual referendum that had huge procedural things to go through and there were question and answer sessions. There were pro and con statements. It was a contentious debate, a contentious idea. Craig and I are completely vehemently disagreeing on every aspect of it, except that we both agreed that we thought this was probably pass and we were both correct. It passed by 72% of members voting yes on this.

Now, Liz, you are on the board so you got an early look at this. Was this surprising to you?

Liz: You know, it wasn’t surprising. I think for me especially being on the board I was very, very hopeful that this was going to help a lot of people that aren’t getting the credit that they need, especially because I am so involved in a lot of the diversity inclusion and equity efforts in the guild. And I have a lot of friends who are underrepresented groups, either writers of color, LGBTQ+ writers, who were all having their experience used to make certain films more authentic without ever receiving the credits or ever receiving any sort of help in their own careers as someone who writes these sorts of stories. So that if you were looking to tell a story about a Chinese American transplant here in the United States instead of going to let’s say the white male writer who had written a beautiful movie about that you go to the Chinese writer who used their own lived experience to make that movie more authentic.

So for me what I was really hoping for and I think what we are going to see is that we’re going to see a lot of midlevel and lower level screenwriters or people who are just breaking in who really needed that extra leg up and that acknowledgment that their work is crucial to the films that we see nowadays. I think that we’re going to see that their careers are going to start to blossom. I hope that’s what it is.

I like to speak positively because I don’t think that speaking negatively and just believing in the worst case scenario is ever truly helpful. I completely understand, I’ve heard from a lot of screenwriters who have doubts and who have questions and who aren’t sure if this is the best solution, but I also think that this is so much better than waiting around and doing nothing and letting more and more people fall through the cracks and letting their work go unacknowledged. So I’m thrilled.

John: Yeah. So I was on the committee that put up this whole proposal and wrote the explainer documents, so I’m obviously in favor of it. But I think you bring up two really crucial points here. One is that this is the difference between a writing credit and an employment credit. And right now in features the only things we used to have were writing credits. And so a screenplay by or written by, story by, that was it. And if you didn’t get one of those credits as a writer on a film there was no record that you ever worked on that film at all.

And so those credits just sort of disappear. And you had no way to sort of prove that you had actually been employed in the Hollywood system. Unlike in a TV writer situation where you get a writing credit for the episodes of television that you write, but you also get an employment credit showing that you were a staff writer, a story editor, a co-producer. There’s a whole way that you could prove that you actually worked. I think a thing that has changed over the last 20 years is that we’ve become much more aware of the fact that if you don’t have any employment credits you can’t sort of show that you work it’s very hard to sustain a career.

And you’re bringing up the diversity inclusion aspect of it, a thing that has also changed is that it used to be that those last writers on a project, the ones who were just coming in to do certain surgical work on things were the big guns, the folks who coming in to do a comedy pass, and it was maybe kind of OK that they weren’t listed there because they were getting paid a lot of money. What’s changed over the last couple of years is that oftentimes that last writer is someone who is coming in to do some work on authenticity and cultural specificity and it seems especially weird that they are not being acknowledged at all. And they sort of structurally could not be acknowledged by the way that our credits work. Because they’re never going to achieve the thresholds that they would need to hit in order to see their name on that movie.

So, like you I’m hopeful that this will bring about a positive change for those writers and sort of for all writers. And I’m mindful that there’s going to be people who are worried that directors are going to start asking for this credit or other producers are going to start asking for it, or actors will. I think the safeguards and the guard rails are there to sort of protect that from happening, but also if people did write on the movie, the wrote on the movie, and having their name show up at the end crawl of things I don’t think is going to be the worst outcome.

Liz: No. And I think, I mean, honestly I was just at the movies last week for The Eternals. And there was a group there who I didn’t realize this at the time, but I think this is what happened, but one of their friends worked in special effects. And the moment that their name came up in the middle of that huge crawl towards the end, like this group just exploded into cheers. And it was me and my friend and we’re cheering for them, too. And it was just such a proud moment. And I just remember looking at that, being like man it’s going to be so nice – it’s going to be so nice for the writers that I know who have been working on certain films for less than $1,500 a day to basically use their own lived experience to make someone else’s project feel authentic and breathe authentic. And to be able to have that moment of pride where you’re in the theater and you see your name and you can kind of acknowledge to everybody that, yes, I was part of something great.

It’s a good feeling. It’s a really nice feeling. So I wanted to bring that up because it was kind of a beautiful moment that just made me remember why it’s magical sometimes to be working in this industry.

John: Aw. And Liz it’s always magical to get to chat with you about our industry and our films and delicious desserts.

Liz: Yes, thank you so much for having me.

John: And can you come back at the end of the show to talk through a One Cool Thing?

Liz: Yeah, I’ll hang around.

John: Cool. Back in Episode 505 Craig and I talked with Phil Hay and Matt Manfredi about the challenge of producing the first season of their show, The Mysterious Benedict Society, which filmed entirely in Vancouver while they were in pandemic lockdown here in Los Angeles. The show got a second season, no surprise, but what was surprising is that the show is moving from Canada to California. So my one question for Matt and Phil is how the hell did that happen?

Matt and Phil, why is your show moving? How did that work?

Matt Manfredi: Well there are a couple reasons. One of which is there’s this tax credit specifically for shows moving back to LA after a first season. Perhaps after a second season. But moving back to LA. So it’s always appealing for us to shoot in LA and the thing about the story of season one, the setting for season two is not in the same location necessarily. So it kind of fit what we wanted to do story wise – it gave us an ability to move.

John: So was it always part of the plan? Or when did the possibility of moving to California come up?

Phil Hay: It came up, it wasn’t always part of the plan. It came up as a possibility right when we got renewed officially. As often happens there was a big run up period where we were kind of renewed but we needed to get all the ducks in order and actually get that. So in that period it came up as an idea that the studio thought was possible because of this, and again because of this tax credit which is kind of doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. So we kind of did a parallel plan, one for Vancouver and one for Los Angeles.

It became financially feasible once we got that tax credit. And for many reasons we were excited to do it. I mean, we absolutely loved shooting in Vancouver and loved the crew there and everything about it. In this case the opportunity also for the cast who in many cases had to not be with part of their family to move up to Vancouver and things, there’s an opportunity – most of them are LA based – to kind of bring everybody home which I think was a really powerful lure, you know.

And then I think we also, I don’t know, personally Matt and I are – and we’ve talked about this before – we’re very kind of passionate about California film and about filming here. And in the case of our movies, you know, Destroyer and The Invitation, they’re about Los Angeles so that’s kind of natural. But The Mysterious Benedict Society is not. It’s different. And this is just a desire to shoot here for all the reasons of jobs and pouring kind of back into our local economy, our local thing.

Matt: And I’ll say that one thing that made it a little easier for us, because we loved our crew in Vancouver, and if they were all available and ready to go it would have made it a more difficult decision because the look of the show is specific and they pulled it off during the pandemic and it was incredible. They were so great. But because of our short order and the time it took to renew the season our crew, the stages, our line producer weren’t going to be available. So it kind of made the decision a little less emotionally fraught.

John: Now a question for the two of you, what did you personally have to do in order to get this California tax credit? Were you tracking up to Sacramento with a slide show and tap dancing? Were you writing anything? What were you doing?

Phil Hay: Matt and I have a PAC, it’s a very small, it’s like 15 lobbyists, and the rest of the staff. No, we didn’t personally have to do anything like that. I think, you know, us in conjunction with Todd and Darren our partners, and in conjunction with 20th, the studio, and Disney+ the network, everybody just got excited about that idea and then it becomes very fairly decided that what the rubric is for deciding who gets this credit is very directly tied to jobs and wages. And the more you can show that and also filming out of the zone, for example, like filming in unlikely places and bringing work there within California. These are all things that go into deciding who gets it. So, the studio is responsible for creating that whole application and looking at the budget and highlighting how we can do it in order to meet all their requirements.

John: Now while I was reading up about this tax credit I saw a statistic which I thought was good and interesting which is that Film LA announced that film and TV production is 22.1% above the pre-pandemic average in Los Angeles. So, filming really is happening a lot here and in town. There was always this worry that after the pandemic shut down stuff wouldn’t come back up to speed here in California. That it would all move to Atlanta, it would all move to New Mexico, and there’s still plenty of shooting happening here in town.

Matt: Yeah, definitely. I think there’s a tremendous amount of shooting happening everywhere. Vancouver is booked solid as well. But I think in LA I think there’s probably other factors. I mean, I think that also, you know, frankly the vaccine situation is one that people think a lot about, about traveling to places where the vaccines are not as widely distributed versus Los Angeles. I think that’s actually a factor for a lot of productions. And I think it’s exciting for us to see – like, you know, as people who came out here as you did a long time ago to do this, I think a lot about cinematographers we know and the production designers we know and the costume designers we know who are kind of vagabonds by necessity. That they put down roots and have families in Los Angeles but spend so much time traveling elsewhere to make films and television that I just think it’s a really positive thing to have people consistently hopefully be able to be home for long stretches of time doing shows and movies, one after the other, in California.

John: Do you have a sense of when you start shooting?

Phil: January 24.

John: Fantastic. Guys, can I get you to come back at the end of the show to share some One Cool Things?

Matt: Always.

Phil: Yeah.

John: Aline Brosh McKenna, how are you?

Aline Brosh McKenna: I’m great. Thank you.

John: Now you are currently in production on a movie titled Your Place or Mine. It stars Reese Witherspoon, Ashton Kutcher. It is produced by so many talented people included a Scriptnotes friend, Jason Bateman. So my one question for you is what is it like directing a feature after having produced a television show?

Aline: Well, it’s interesting because I have never directed before when I wasn’t running a show. And so I only really know how to direct while – I mean, in the past I’ve had to direct while I was still writing, still doing cuts, still going to mixes. And in the case of the Crazy Ex finale also pitching in on a live finale. So, you know, I’ve almost always been doing ten things that were not directing while directing.

So this has actually been kind of luxurious to focus on the one piece of material where the script was done. And I’ve been lucky in that the script was pretty done. I did a few rewrites kind of leading into it and then I did that budget rewrite that you always have to do to kind of dial in the budgetary restrictions. But I’ve really been able to focus on this one piece. And the thing about being a showrunner is you can peace out whenever you need to. So it’s like if you’re on set and they’re doing the thing, you go in and you check in and you’re like you guys are cool here, you got it, I’m going to go to crafty and get a Mounds bar.

But directing you’re there, so you’re physically there for every second. You’re physically on set in a chair. So, you have this more singular focus when you’re directing and showrunning is a lot more jobs that you’re doing at the same time but you’re able to be flexible with them. So showrunning was oddly a better mom job because even though I was working way, way more I think hours wise as a showrunner I put in way more hours, but I could do them like I would do the room, leave at 6, go home, see my kids, and then at night go over scripts, look at cuts, talk to Rachel, you know, do other tasks that I could as a showrunner – my main time commitment was the room, but the other work I could do, you know, go to post when it suited me, or look at cuts.

But directing is physically you are contiguous with your project every minute of every second. So I’ve enjoyed the singular focus. And then the other thing I will say that might be of interest to people is that when I started the directing process there were moments where I was approaching it as a showrunner in terms of like wanting to be dealing with logistics. And I was trying to kind of get into it on logistical things that there were lots of other people around who could help me. As you said we have several really great producers and a great line producer and a great AD. And so I kind of had to learn to keep my focus on the artistic stuff and not get into the logistical weeds as much as I would as a showrunner.

John: Can we talk about the sort of on the set, because watching you do Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, like watching you on the set of that show, you have to achieve a certain number of pages per day or the show just won’t get shot, it won’t get done. And features have pages per day as well, but the count is going to be lower. There’s not the expectation of going through so much. What was that adjustment like for you? And learning how, OK, we don’t have to move on so quickly. Was that a change for you?

Aline: Well the most luxurious things for me was all the time I got to spend with our DP, Florian Ballhaus, who I had been wanting to work with for 15 years since he did Devil Wears Prada. And on a TV show you barely, barely get time with the DP. I mean, our DPs were generous enough with me that I was able to do a little bit of prep with them on the TV show. But on the movie I spent weeks and weeks with Florian going through and figuring it out and figuring out how we were going to approach it visually and doing storyboards. And that is extremely luxurious.

And then as you said, you know, TV we went pretty much twice, I would say 2.5 to 3 times as fast. So, I’m sort of blown away by things like we have playback all the time and that seems like a real simple thing, but we didn’t really have the budget to have playback all the time on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. We only had playback on the days we were doing musical numbers.

John: So let’s describe that for our audience. So this is basically you can look at the take that you just shot and see like, oh, did we get everything we needed in that take, correct? That was a luxury for you.

Aline: Yeah. And so you can say like did the actor put his beer down here or there. And then if you don’t have playback you’re like well I think someone saw it. You know? But with playback you can just see and match a lot better. So, there are a lot of things about the movie schedule that feel luxurious to me and they’re mostly around being able to get more interesting, more diverse types of coverage of scenes and really being able to conceive the coverage in a bigger way. And as I said I’m not doing ten other things so we’re focusing on those two or three pages in a different way than TV is really.

I mean, there were moments on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend where we would show up like Miracle of Birth, which I directed that episode, we showed up, did that musical number, which is quite complicated with children dancing, people going through a vagina like opening, and it was pretty complicated. We did that for four hours and then we went and shot the rest of the day. And on a movie that would be your whole day, if not two days. And obviously if you’re making an indie or you’re making something where you have a very short schedule then it’s similar, but this is a studio feature where we just have more time and really the luxury of really spending time with your collaborators in a very long prep process where you prep this one specific piece of material as opposed to a TV show is sort of like a flowing river, a network TV show I shall say, a flowing river where you’re really just trying to make sure that your boat stays upright, your baling out water, and you’re getting everything going in this giant flow of all these other things that are going on.

So it’s a little bit more micro surgery and I love that. So, you know, I focus on sleeping, which is something I couldn’t really do when I was running the show. When I was running the show I was pretty much working and often people were shooting while I was working at night and I would have trouble sleeping until I got the text that said we wrapped. And then, you know, first thing in the morning you’re going. And the movie has been much more regularly structured because I’m not working on all these other ten – I’m not looking at cuts. I’m not going from set to a mix. I’m really just focused on this one thing.

So what I have been focused on is sleeping. So if I’m not on set or preparing, I’m asleep.

John: Or you’re answering my one question on Scriptnotes. So thank you for coming back to let us know. How much longer do you have in production?

Aline: Not too long. A couple more weeks. Yeah, I mean, it’s been an enormous privilege. You know, when you’re a writer you live in the hypothetical. As I’ve said on the show before like the document production business is not why you come to Hollywood. You come because you want to make things. And I feel tremendously privileged. Any time I’m in a car driving to a set, any kind of set that’s shooting stuff that I wrote, it’s an enormous privilege. And it’s the thing as a writer you work so hard to get to. So, I’m really trying to savor it and not take it for granted.

John: Aline, thanks so much.

Aline: You’re welcome.

John: All right. So I’m sitting across from Stephen Follows who is a British filmmaker and data scientist. Are those the right combination of things?

Stephen Follows: Yeah. I don’t think I have qualifications in anything. But I do a lot of film data research and I’m a filmmaker by trade.

John: Now I first found you on Twitter or online because we were talking about the movies you can’t find online anymore, so movies that you used to be able to find at Blockbuster and just for whatever reason you cannot get them anyplace. Can you remind listeners what you were able to discover about that?

Stephen: Yeah. I mean, I’ll be honest, I’m not going to quote numbers off the top of my head, but definitely it was really interesting when we think about the kinds of films that make it through all of the different gatekeepers to be available to the public. And, you know, there are films that are taken off the circuit I guess for political reasons. My understanding as an outsider is that Dogma was one of those films where there was a deal done to take it out of circulation.

But there are many films that just sort of fall out of circulation. They fall between whether it’s bankruptcies, or people can’t be bothered to do it, or they forget. There’s a lot of messiness in the supply chain.

John: Absolutely. And so in the days when we had Blockbuster or when Netflix was really shipping DVDs around DVDs still existed so you could always have a copy of that movie, but as we moved to a completely streaming world some movies you just can’t get because there could be music rights that are complicating it or just the underlying rights to who owns this film can be hard to sort out. The problem is not a supply chain thing. Really it’s a legal rights thing. Basically you need a bunch of paralegals to sort out all this stuff and it’s not profitable for anyone to do it.

Stephen: Well exactly. And so yeah you’ve absolutely got legal reasons. You’ve also got technical reasons in the sense that you’ve got to scan some of these films. And you’ve got to find the good master print. You’ve got to scan it. And that whether it’s profitable or not just might not be worth the effort. And then any restoration work or I mean I’ve seen a few DVDs, I won’t name any names, but you watch them and they clearly scanned from a very old print. And it’s just like this is trash. But no one is going to bother going back to the original if they can find it in the right vault. And so I think we forget that as we go through all these different formats. I think you can tell how old you are by how many formats you remember shooting on.

And I think as DVDs everyone thought well we’ll scan them at SD because that will be all we’ll need. Oh, now we need them in HD. Oh, no, we only do 4K content. And fortunately we’ve skipped the fact that we’re only in 2D. Fortunately 3D hasn’t become a requirement. But there is that. Every time we upscale and we improve we also lose a load of things that just aren’t worth taking along the journey. It’s like every time you move houses you leave a load of things you don’t really care about and then years later you look back and go where’s that award I won or whatever.

John: All right. I want to talk with Stephen Follows about his film education in London versus what he perceives to be film education here in Los Angeles, because you are the first I think London-educated film person we’ve had on this podcast. So talk to us about when you first started studying film.

Stephen: So I went to film school as a university student 20 years ago. And I did a degree in film production. To give you a sense of the timing we did some stuff on celluloid, you know, Super-16, and some stuff digitally. And I had a friend, Chris, who was on a digital film course which was called Time Based New Media. So it was that era where everyone didn’t know what film was and didn’t know what film wasn’t.

But, yeah, I did a three-year degree at an arts college. And so what it meant was that most of my friends and people who were around me in other courses were doing costume, jewelry, fine arts. It was very arts-based. Whereas I think here in the states it’s a business, isn’t it? Even if you’re an artist you’re an artist within a business. And I think being in London, being in an arts college, I mean, we didn’t have any lectures on business at all. And by design perhaps. And I may be self-selecting because I went to an arts college, so this is no criticism of them necessarily, although it wouldn’t have hurt to have a couple in three years.

John: What strikes me as strange at an arts college is that I think of the arts as being things that you can kind of do by yourself. Obviously there’s dramatic arts which require teamwork and everyone coming together, but things like painting is a solo art. And filmmaking though is inherently a really collaborative art. It’s about getting a big team together and sort of sharing a vision and doing all that stuff.

And so were you, the celluloid stuff you were shooting or the video stuff you were shooting, was that as teams or was it solo projects?

Stephen: It was a mix of it. So there would be the occasional celluloid project or essay, but the vast majority would be for a semester you were put together in a team and you’d take different roles. And you were going out and making a short film on a brief, essentially. That’s what it was. And there were other lectures around there, around editing. And you take special lessons. But fundamentally the thing you cared most about was the short that you were making each semester.

John: And how much of that focus on that short was on the writing versus the production of it?

Stephen: I mean, it’s tricky because they did care about the writing, but to be honest the production is so much more complicated. It’s bigger, it’s longer, almost so you can’t do it till you’ve done the writing. I don’t want to say they dismiss the writing, but it definitely was you need to get over that first step and you’re quite keen to get over that first step. But I mean I have been involved in other schools since then. I’m the Chairman of the Central Film School. I’ve taught a lot at the Met Film School and a few others. And what’s interesting is that they all have different approaches. But the ones that are most interesting to me, just interesting, I don’t even know if I can validate it either way, is that you have a screenwriting program and you have a filmmaking program. And sometimes they also have acting programs or sister colleges or whatever.

And that’s really interesting because it means that the writers are really spending a whole – they have a client to start with, which is a nice relationship to get used to. It’s not a nice relationship, but it’s a nice thing to get used to. But also they can actually put time into it. It’s not just the first thing you have to tick off the list of making a short. It’s their project. And so I don’t know whether that produces better films, whether it produces more arguments, whether it works. But it’s closer to the industry and probably I think as a writer doing them a better journey because they’re just writing. Writing is hard. It’s a fulltime job. It’s a full thing, as you know. You don’t need it to be one step before you then go off and shoot it. It should be its own thing.

John: Now Craig is notoriously anti film school. And so what is the best defense of film schools or argument for film schools for a person who is out of high school or out of the lower grades to learn about film? What is a good argument for film school?

Stephen: Well it’s funny. I wouldn’t even say I’m pro film school per se in the same, you know, I’m not pro Chinese food. You know, like it depends what is the right place to be, the right time, and so for some people it’s exactly the right thing to do. And for others it’s entirely the wrong thing to do.

I’d say it’s almost never the shortest path if you know where you’re going. It’s going to be more expensive. It’s going to be more time-consuming. And we all know that what you need to do is go and work in the film industry. Like that’s kind of it, right? Especially the moment we’re in right now, nobody is unemployed who wants to be employed in the production side of film. Wages are going through the roof. Streamers – I mean, I don’t know how long this will last, but certainly no one is unemployed. You know, we have the opposite problem of working too many hours or whatever.

So, if you know where you’re going the shortest path is very rarely via film school. The main argument for film school is an argument that you’ll hear a lot within general education which is that you don’t know what you want to do. It’s that magic quasi period between being an adult and a child. It’s by having a purpose but not a job. And you’ve got restrictions but you’re safe. And so discovering yourself in [postural] care. Like I learned a lot about who I am at university and who I shouldn’t be. I learned a lot about what it was to be an artist and to bumble around and have no purpose in what you’re up to but still the opportunity to do things.

The idea of jumping out of high school into being a runner sounds pretty harsh and I wouldn’t be surprised if they went very well through the industry but then got to 30 and went who am I, what do I want to do, how I have ended up in visual effects. You know, not that there’s anything wrong with that, but you end up specializing incredibly hard. Whereas at film school you hold the boom one day, you write the script the next, and then you’re doing music. There’s a lot to be said for the discovery of personhood and identity and you as an artist. I don’t know what else compares to that.

John: Yeah. I think my best argument for film school is that it puts you in a cohort of people who are trying to learn about the same thing you’re trying to learn about and you graduate from that film school with a bunch of people who are at your same level. And that people always assume that they need to meet people who are further up the ladder, who are going to help them out, but really it’s your peers that are your biggest resource that you get out of film school. And those are the folks who are going to be crewing on your films. You’re going to be reading their scripts. And you’re all going to kind of grow in the industry together, especially if you’re in a growth period which this feels like.

Stephen: Yeah. I mean, I still remember the very first day of film school and I still have a strong emotional positive connection to it, because no one knew anyone else. Everyone was super awkward. It’s the first day. But I went from being one of two guys in my high school that were the film guys to everyone being the film guys. Everyone saw the same films as me. Everyone saw the same references. It normalized my thing. But it also then instantly said well what are you going to do with it. Because, OK, you don’t get points for saying you’ve seen that film. Are you going to go make one? Well actually we’ll come and make one with you. Oh, OK.

It bumped everything up a level like you said with peers who were in the same place as you. And those people I met, I mean, so as an anecdote when I was a kid growing up I’m really into comedy and I’d see all of these BBC comedians all working with each other and I kept thinking how do you break into that circle. And then after film school I realized you don’t break into that circle. You build your own circle. And you build a circle when no one cares. And you work hard and you see who works hard. Who steals money from you, who doesn’t? Who has got good ideas, who doesn’t? Who is a nice human being? And then as you all start to progress you’ve got a circle that’s stronger and stronger and then when you’re actually in the industry and you’re looking for someone to rely on that you understand, that you respect, of course it’s that person. It’s not someone you haven’t seen before.

So those circles are very hard to break into, but they’re very easy to form because they just take time. And you’re in the trenches before it matters. So I would say that the biggest argument for film school is about space. And time and focus. And arguably in the world today, especially now, but also generally when do you get to try something and fail? Who is going to give you the chance to be a boom operator? I’ve worked a Nagra machine. I’m never going to do it again. But I have a huge amount of respect for sound because I’ve had to do it once and I remember how bad I did it. And I’d never do that in the industry. And I think if everyone in the industry has gone down a single department track their entire life that can’t be as good as if everyone has had a go at everything else early on and failed and succeeded and found their joy.

So, yeah, I would say it’s never shortest the path but it might be the one you need to let things grow.

John: Great. Stephen Follows, do you have a One Cool Thing?

Stephen: I do. This is something I read a while ago and when I’ve subsequently looked for it I’ve had to dig around a bit because I think it was originally on the Village Voice and the original link isn’t there. But I’m absolutely certain that we can find it and link to it in the podcast. There is an article entitled No I Will Not Read Your Script. And it is fantastic. It is everything you’ve been thinking when someone says, “Oh, can you just read my script.” And then two days later they go, “I’ve rewritten it. Can you have a read of it again?” And you start to boil. And you know you want to help people but you get to a point where you’re like, no, I will not read your script. And it’s explaining the process of reading, but also about people ask quite glibly for people to read their script and actually it’s quite a big ask. And it’s OK to do and it’s OK to read scripts, but it’s sort of, I don’t know, it’s a good articulation of all of that pain and blood boiling you get if you just open yourself up to read everyone’s script.

So, let me ask you, John. How much time do you read people’s scripts when they say will you read my script?

John: I will read a script if it is truly of a friend who is doing it for the first time and I feel like might have a shot at it. I’ll always read a script for somebody who I think actually I suspect has a good, funny voice. And so there have been people who I see on Twitter and they seem to actually have a good sense of how words fit together in ways that work well. Or if I’ve read them in another way I will do so.

I’m not rushing out there to read my dry cleaner’s script because it’s just exhausting. And we all know why it’s exhausting because they’re generally bad. And you’re asking a huge time commitment. You’re asking for a good hour/90 minutes at a time and the painful possible discussion afterwards about sort of what you actually thought of this.

Stephen: Yeah. I mean, I always ask people a couple of questions when they say can you read my script. I’m always like OK what stage are you at? What do you at need? You can ask them quite directly do they need validation or are they actually wanting notes. Mostly they want validation. But also you say, look, I tend to be quite brutal with notes. It tends to not work out well. You know, you try and put them off. And the ones that actually really say, “No, I need that. I need that. Please be honest,” you kind of go, OK, well you know.

I had a friend Ben Aston recently who is writing a film for Netflix. And he took notes so well it was so impressive that it sort of restored my faith in giving notes. Because he was just – it was painful for him because notes always are, but he was so open to them. He cherished them and he basically cherished me giving the notes to him. And I was so inspired by that I wanted to go and read four more other scripts, which I’m sure would then put me back on the loop elsewhere.

John: Cool. Liz Alper, do you have a One Cool Thing to share with us?

Liz: I do. I am really into shrubs right now. I’ve been getting more and more into shrubs. And it’s not the shrubbery.

John: Not topiary?

Liz: Not a topiary. So shrub is a vinegar based drink that you usually mix with soda water or you can use it for the basis of a non-alcoholic cocktail. And as someone who is actually physically incapable of consuming alcohol because I don’t possess the enzyme that can break alcohol down, for me it’s been a really, really fun drink to have and feel like I’m having something special at the end of the day.

So right now I actually went to a little sale for a restaurant that I love called Phenakite. It’s the chef who does a wonderful restaurant called Porridge and Puffs. And she’s really into pickling and she’s really into vinegars. And she made a yuzu pear shrub and a hibiscus rose shrub that I’m a little obsessed with right now. And it’s a great alternative to soda because I drink Diet Coke like it’s water, like I’m in the middle of the desert and I haven’t seen an oasis for nigh two months. And so having this kind of different drink that’s a little healthier for me, it’s cleaner, it’s got those good gut bacteria that’s going to help you digest things well. It’s something that I can’t recommend highly enough. And especially if you’re a little bit more adventurous and you’re looking for something that really is very low in sugar but has so much flavor to it, try it out.

You can make your own. You can look some up. There are lots of recipes out there now. It’s a great alternative to an alcoholic beverage. It’s a great alternative to soda. It’s just a really great way to keep hydrated while also having a good time.

John: I also fully hear you about the need for a nighttime beverage versus a daytime beverage. Because I think your body and your brain want somebody say like, OK, the day is over and now we’re just going to watch TV and not think about things.

Liz: Exactly.

John: And so that traditionally has been a glass of wine for me, but increasingly I’ve been going to herbal teas that I wouldn’t drink during the day but I will drink at night. It creates that nice split of like, you know, this is a nighttime thing. I can start winding down.

Liz: You would actually really enjoy this then. IKEA of all places has an amazing pine needle lemon tea. And that is my go to right before bed, have a cup. And my brain immediately is like, OK, it’s sleepy time now. We’ve had our pine needles. It’s time to go to bed.

John: Liz, thank you so much for this. This is perfect. Phil Hay, Matt Manfredi, do you have One Cool Things to share with us?

Phil: I sure do, John. I, and this is a little bit of home cooking, but I think you’ll all figure me. There’s a television show called Yellowjackets that Karyn Kusama, my wife, and Matt and my partner in our company directed the pilot of. It’s created by Ashley and Bart Nickerson. And it’s just fantastic. I can say that freely as someone who is only a fan and did not work in any way on the show. So, check it out. It’s on Showtime. It is wild and weird and crazy and really glad that it is on television.

John: So Yellowjackets on Showtime. And Matt are you plus one on that? Do you have your own recommendation?

Matt: I’m going to plus one that hard. Because I am a big supporter of Karyn Kusama, obviously. So I’m going to plug that. But I will say I was holed up awaiting the results of a PCR test before flying home. And so I was by myself unexpectedly for a few days, just watching a lot of TV. And I will say that the first sketch of the new season of I Think You Should Leave got me laughing like nothing in a while. So I highly recommend just taking three minutes out of your life and getting a big laugh.

John: Now I’m trying to remember, the first sketch of this new season, is that the hot dog and the sleeve?

Matt: That is.

John: It’s just terrific. It’s brilliant.

Matt: The whole show is good. But that particularly was just a highlight of mine.

Phil: I will plus one that sight unseen. Because it sounds great.

John: Gentlemen, thank you both very, very much.

Phil: Thank you.

Matt: Thank you.

John: Aline Brosh McKenna, do you have a One Cool Thing for us?

Aline: I do. Do you know about Goldbelly?

John: I don’t. Tell me about Goldbelly.

Aline: Oh my god. So Goldbelly is a website and you go and you can order delicious things from all over the country. So, pizza, biscuits, pies, and cakes, and bagels. And they source it from mostly small businesses all over the country. It gets to you super-fast. It’s stored in a way – they give you really clear instructions on how to store it, freeze it, thaw it, whatever. And I started using it during the pandemic because we couldn’t travel and it just was like fun to get, you know, pizza from Chicago and biscuits from a soul food place, and whatever. So BBQ we ordered.

So I started getting stuff from all over the country just so we could feel like we were getting some adventure at home. And now for Thanksgiving I don’t have a lot of time to prepare for Thanksgiving so I hit it hard with pies, the cakes, the sides. You know, you can really order from some great places and support some small businesses. Goldbelly.com. And there’s an app also. But it’s a good service.

John: Excellent. Thank you.

Aline: Yummy.

John: All right. And finally my One Cool Thing is a website called Series Heat, it’s sort of web app, by Jim Vallandingham. What you can do is you enter in the title of a TV series you like, like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and it shows you the IMDb ratings for each episode of that show. And what’s kind of fun about it is it organizes it into a grid so you can see like, oh, this is when people liked the show, this is when people did not like certain episodes, or there might be an arc of the show. Around the office we’ve been playing it as a game where we will do it for a show and then take a screenshot without the title of the show and have people try to figure out what show we’re talking about.

So useful to the degree that any ratings are useful. Also it shows you the shape of a show in terms of like when there were short seasons, when there were long seasons. You can tell when the writers’ strikes happened. So it’s called Series Heat and there will be a link for that in the show notes.

And that was our show for this week. Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao, as always, and edited by Matthew Chilelli. Our outro this week is by Henry Adler. If you have an outro you can send us a link to ask@johnaugust.com. That’s also the place where you can send longer questions. For short questions on Twitter, Craig is sometimes @clmazin. I am always @johnaugust.

You can find the show notes for this episode and all episodes at johnaugust.com. That’s also where you find the transcripts and sign up for our weekly-ish newsletter called Inneresting which has lots of links to things about writing.

You can sign up to become a premium member at Scriptnotes.net where you get all the back episodes and bonus segments. And don’t forget to order your Scriptnotes sweatshirt, your hoodie, your t-shirts. Most of them can still probably ship by Christmas but there’s no guarantee at this point. But still you want something for the holidays. Thanks and I’ll talk to you soon.

[Bonus segment]

John: So back here with Stephen Follows. Now having you hear in 2021, a question we put out to our listeners on the podcast is are screenplay competitions ever worth it. And so there are the big name competitions like Nicholls Fellowship and Austin is a bigger one. And then there’s a bunch of scammy ones that we’ve always sort of railed against that are sort of we kind of know are worth very, very little.

But you as a data scientist, the person who sort of would look into this question normally, how would you approach the question of whether screenplay competitions are ever worthwhile for the entrants?

Stephen: Well, I’d start by objecting to the question, but that’s usually just for fun. Is it ever worth it implies that, you know, there is an implication there. And it might well be the result of all these kind of areas. There are a bunch of scammers and there will be a bunch of great examples that can help people. And our job is to disentangle which are which. But also overall what’s the average. You know, these outliers skew everything in the film industry.

John: So let’s pretend your Nate Silver. Maybe the phrase, the question of like what value do screenplay competitions provide, if there is a value.

Stephen: Well let’s start by saying who we are. You know, if we’re somebody who is already established in the industry then the benefit might be quite marginal. If we’re somebody who lives very, very far, this is not for the actual competition, it’s just the concept of a competition. So if we’re someone who lives in a very far distant place geographically, or just from the center of the industry, then the theory of a competition is great, in theory, because you have a level playing field. People are only reading your text on the script. And so any disability, anything that you have that’s holding you back from barriers in the industry won’t come to the fore.

So we have to move to, OK, so in theory they could work, but in practice do they? Well, we have to think about who is picking up these films that the other end. Are the people who actually are important gatekeepers who can pick up new films or spec scripts, are they looking to these competitions? And so there is a little bit of fashion. If everyone thinks something is cool it is cool. If everyone stops thinking it’s cool it’s not cool. But it was.

And so part of the question for this if you were starting to do the data analysis you’d start saying, OK, well what’s the goal of the people entering, which is to get purchased or optioned. Who is optioning them? OK, go and talk to them and do the analysis of what do you think of competitions, what do you think of these competitions.

And if everyone thought that they’re a waste of time, well then by definition they are if they’re the only people purchasing. But I think we have to think about with all these things there are multiple benefits in theory. So for example a lottery ticket. If you only do the math on the lottery ticket apparently if a lottery draw is on the Saturday night you should buy the ticket on Saturday afternoon, because before that you’re more likely to die than to win the lottery. And so it’s utility theory.

But I’d argue that actually you should buy it Sunday first thing in the morning because then you get a whole week of believing you might win, right? The utility there is not the million dollars, it’s the dreaming of being a millionaire. So with these competitions you could argue that there’s a soft benefit in the sense that it gives you a deadline, it gives you a structure, it gives you a support base, it gives you a dream. And it might give you feedback and it might give you a journey. So those things are hold to quantify. But if we thought that they were worth it to the screenwriter’s journey we’d have to find ways of quantifying them.

But I guess all of this stuff is talking around the edges of the core question which is is it worth the money. Can they deliver on the promise? And I’d say without having run hard data on all of them, no, the vast majority of them are not delivering value for the vast, vast majority of people entering. Because they can’t possibly. You look at the numbers. That’s the thing about these. They’re not multi-level marketing. They’re not pyramid schemes. But when you look at multi-level marketing you only have to look at the math to know that they can’t deliver. And with these competitions look at the number of people entering and the number of people who could meaningfully get an outcome that would change their lives. You have to argue that – I mean, you could argue that will somebody benefit from this competition? Yes. Will I benefit in this competition? Almost certainly not.

You know, I have looked in the past. I’ve done research on quite a few scripts and quite a few competitions and I’ve never been able to directly address the benefit or not of these competitions because what you have to start from is a quite complicated place. You have to say what would the journey have otherwise been. Because in theory if these competitions are perfect they’re won by incredible writers. And the industry is actually quite good at discovering – it’s messy but it’s actually quite good at discovering talent, I think. It’s not efficient but it’s good.

So therefore the competition is just a way of getting there quicker and also you have to think about well what are they actually getting? They get the award, they get the pleasure, they get the attention. But I don’t know how many of them are doing deals.

John: Yeah. So let’s try to distinguish between the hard benefits and the soft benefits. So the soft benefits shouldn’t be overlooked, so I’m glad you brought them up. Because that sense of like giving you a deadline, giving you a purpose, giving you a sense of some hope, those can all be soft benefits. I’d argue they can also be sort of soft detriments where you’re putting too much faith and too much hope into this one thing which will probably not pay off. And it may be distracting you from the actual real achievable things you could do which is to write another script, to like actually find ways to put it in the hands of someone who could do something with it. And that false hope can I think be its own detriment which I think these often can sell false hopes.

Stephen: Oh, absolutely, and there’s no doubt that they do, even if they’re intending not to. Even if you have the best competition in the world, by definition people are going to think they have a chance when they don’t, some people.

I think what’s really tricky about this is that when you look at the, I don’t know what it is, hundreds of thousands of people coming into the industry every year. The vast majority of them will fail if your metric is purely whether they get to the end goal or not. But whether that makes you wrong to encourage them to carry on, you know, I talk a lot with drama teachers in the UK and the ethics of them telling every actor they have a chance when the odds are absolutely saying they won’t, you know, is false hope false hope or is it hope and then it turns out not to have been what you wanted but it’s still part of your journey? That’s almost philosophical.

So if it’s not a scam, as in like there is a competition. They have got industry people involved. And if the people entering know the odds, then I’m very agnostic about it. I don’t really care, as in I don’t mind. But the question is always are they actually describing what it is. Do the people entering have a clear sense of their chances and what’s going to happen?

John: All right. So let’s try to narrow the question down to the hard benefits of what you get out of this and the value proposition for we’ll just say the Nicholl Fellowship is the premier screenplay competition because it’s the one most people have heard of and it’s the one I can think of working writers who have won that who seem to have benefited from it, or at least they won it and now they’re still having careers.

So what would be the criteria we’re looking at here? So would we be looking at who were the winners for the past ten years, or quarterfinalists for the past ten years and then tracking to see whether they are WGA members? Whether they are continuing to work? Because you’re the person who is often finding ways to pull data out of IMDb or do some hard rigorous analysis. So what would you do to see whether somebody is successful? What are the things you would look for as markers of success?

Stephen: That’s a great question. And I think that it’s the first step of all research that I do. It’s usually quite a disappointing first step which is to what level am I going to give up. What level am I going to have an easy answer? Because the real answer is you need to have a different universe where the only difference is they didn’t enter the competition. And we can’t have that. And we also need to make shortcuts like WGA membership is success. And of course it is correlated, but it’s not one to one. And so you’re right. We have to decide the level to which that we can accurately get the data and that it reflects our true question.

So we have to first by saying what is our true question. Is our question about them as a writer, the act of writing and crafting? Is it about the utility of them earning money, getting an agent, getting out there in the world? What is the promise of a competition? So I guess I’d ask you, John. What do you think is the meta promise of these competitions? Is it about writing or is it about being a writer?

John: I think it’s about being a writer. And so I think it’s about you win one of these competitions or you place high in one of these competitions and it gets you started in the process of being a professional screenwriter who is employed and employable as a writer, not just on this one project that you sold, but on future projects. And that it should never be about sort of this one script that won the award. It should be about sort of all the work that you’re doing and hopefully decades of a career.

Stephen: OK. That’s good. That’s a good focus and an easier one for us to tell. It reminds me of a study that, you know, there’s long been a conversation about whether certain schools that are selective whether they actually just find good students or whether they make good students. And there was a study I remember around Stuyvesant High School in New York which is public but filtered. And they tried to work out to what degrees are they finding good students or making good students. And they looked at the students who just made it in and the ones that just didn’t. So in theory they’re a very close cohort.

And my understanding, apologies if I’m wrong from remembering it from a few years ago, was that they found that there was very little life difference between those two people, meaning the school didn’t have a meaningful difference in the things we’re measuring. There still might have been quality of life or whatever.

So, perhaps one of the things to do would be to think about how did the outcomes differ from people who make it through to the quarters, the semis, the finals. That might be interesting and see whether there’s a big drop off. We might be measuring talent, again, but I’m making up the numbers, but if you have 5,000 people entering the competition, the final 16 and the final 1 should be very, very similar in quality on a curve, right? So you’d hope that if you’re saying winning the competition is everything, then you’d hope to see those people having disproportionately large outcomes compared to the people just below them.

But I think because this industry is all about people. It’s all about the stories you tell and the stories that people believe, I think it’s not really going to come down purely to quantitative data. It will come down to qualitative data. And I think you need to find a really good subset of people who are exactly the people who would buy scripts, would try and pick up a writer. Right at that inflection point and they use competitions and then start talking to them about what they think of the competitions.

John: That’s definitely been one of our plans is to really talk to the people who would theoretically be using these competitions as a gatekeeping function to see whether they are actually reaching out to the winners and quarterfinalists and semifinalists and see whether that is a metric that is helpful and useful for them and as a filtering process. Because unlike a sports competition or even an academic program where you can see what the grades were and that stuff, there’s not objective quality on like this is a great script, this is a poorly written script.

And even the fact that these screenplays are going through readers who probably have some rubric for how they’re doing things, it’s not the same readers reading all of these things. I know I was a reader for a year at Tri-Star and I liked some things and I didn’t like some things. And some of that was just taste. It’s hard to figure out whether there could be any real objective measure of success in this one script and then success going down the road.

So, I do think talking to both the agents, managers, producers who would be looking at this stuff and meeting with these writers, but also talking with the folks who placed well in the Nicholls and comparing them with a sampling of the folks who didn’t place well in the Nicholls and sort of what the outcomes are.

Stephen: And also you can talk to people who are finalists and winners and say how did your life change. Because I think the analogy that I can connect to is when you have a short film that does very well at awards, or you have a golden year where you’re doing quite well, what’s really interesting is that that year very clearly starts at the first awards and very, very clearly ends when someone else wins that award 12 months later. And I’ve warned about it and I went through that journey with a few shorts. And it’s so interesting because it is like hot and cold. It’s just on and off. And that actually proves that there is an effect. Any writer that you speak to who has done very well in awards you kind of want to know how steep that inflection point was. How much do they suddenly get calls when they go through to a certain stage? And to what degree did it actually cool down afterwards? Because the flatter the curve, the less the competition made a difference, the steeper, the more it was like well Monday it was announced, Monday afternoon my phone kept ringing. That’s a good sign. Correlation right?

I think also there is a separate piece of work you can do where if you look at, this might be more sociology than data science, but try and look at all the promises, all of the claims that are being made by each of the competitions and then boil them down to the underlying human desire there. What is this? Is this validation? Is this improvement of your writing talent? Is this connections? And then the onus is on the competitions to prove that they do this.

I mean, it’s a free market. They don’t have to prove anything. But if they want to say that this works you should be able to say, well, it seems to me that the main sell, the main thing that you put out there and that people talk about is that you do X, Y, Z. Say you get me an agent or whatever. OK, well show me the data for that. And they don’t have to. But I would have thought they’d want to. And you’ll find very quickly some of them will be incredibly open, very happy to talk to you. They’re very proud of their record. Others won’t talk to you. And I kind of think well that’s not data-data. That’s data we use in the same way if you’re meeting someone new and you ask them about their personal life or what they’re up to and they’re incredibly closed and sketchy, you draw conclusions right?

So, I wouldn’t expect any of these guys to be pleading the fifth. And I would be worried if they were. It’s kind of on them, I think. I don’t think it’s on you to take them down or prove them. I think it’s on them to back up what they’re directly or indirectly claiming. And I think the best ones would be delighted to do that and have that for them. And I think many of them would love to be sitting in this chair talking to you about it. And the ones that won’t, I mean, maybe there’s your answer. You just release blank podcast where you just give them the questions and wait a minute or so and then carry on with the next question like in a police interview.

John: Let’s wrap this up by bringing it back to the first case that you made which is that for many aspiring screenwriters competitions are a means of access. A means of access to someone who doesn’t live in this town, doesn’t have any other connections to this industry or might have disability or something else in their life that prevents them from doing the traditional ways into this industry. And I get that screenplay competitions feel like a point of access. I think what we’re trying to measure in this study is really whether equity of access leads to sort of equity of outcome. And basically it’s one thing to say this provides access to all these people, but if it’s access that doesn’t actually lead anywhere then it’s actually not truly access.

Stephen: Yeah. I mean, certainly we all know in all sectors of the film industry it’s very easy to sell a dream. It’s very easy to go to someone who doesn’t know about film investment and say look at the Blair Witch Project. Look at Paranormal Activity. Look at how much my film is costing. You do the math. And whilst that may not be in any way a lie, it’s definitely a lie through omission, it’s definitely amoral. And that’s an extreme case that we both know happens quite a lot. But that’s an extreme case.

It’s the same thing here. It’s the stuff between the lines that we need to sort of codify. We need to say, OK, you’re saying agents will read this, but what you’re really saying is people will sign you. And what you’re really saying is when they sign you you’ll get hired. And what we’re really saying is you’ll get hired to make real things. OK, so that’s your eventual promise. Let’s take away all the interim stamps and get to the final why and then measure that. And I think that we can do that with a lot of decoding.

I mean, it might be an interesting exercise to sit there, maybe even on the podcast, and read through the press releases or the statements from these kind of thing and then just start putting them in a small number of boxes. And doing it openly and honestly. Because the claims are not wrong. You can make any claim you want. It’s only if you back it up that it becomes stupid or not. So start by just assessing the claims, putting them in to different categories, seeing how they differ. Because I think the other thing you might be doing subconsciously is grouping them all together. And I’m sure if I grouped all screenwriters together you wouldn’t come out well. We are not the average of the people we’re around.

But also I think then if you did say, look, it turns out that 95% of them just aren’t delivering, or making false promises, then it would be a much stronger credible claim. And I suspect it would be closer to that then you’d be pleasantly surprised. But, you know, and then you have to think about what harm you’re doing. Like you said, false hope is horrific. But hope is essential. And the outcome at the end can’t really – maybe – I mean, what’s the difference between hope and false hope? I don’t know.

John: I think what we’re both talking about, making sure people have the information about what they’re really getting into and that they’re not receiving hope for false hope. And that that’s important.

Stephen: They’re not being misled.

John: Misled.

Stephen: And through omission or outwardly, I don’t care. I couldn’t care less. It’s the same thing. You know what you’re doing. And if you’re doing it ethically, as in you’re saying, no, this is the competition. If you believe in yourself so much that you think you’re bound to win, well that’s OK. But if I’m telling you you’re so good that you’re going to win, whatever, then it’s a problem.

John: Stephen, thank you for this.

Stephen: My pleasure.

Links:

• PayUpHollywood Survey
• WGA Members Approve Change In Movie Credits To Better Reflect All Writers’ Contributions
• Hollywood crew union narrowly ratifies its contracts with studios.
• ‘Promised Land’ & ‘Mysterious Benedict Society’ Score Tax Credits For Moving To California
• I Will Not Read Your F*%!ing Script
• Shrubs Drink Recipe and Liz’s favorite Ikea Pine Needle Tea
• Yellow Jackets
• I Think You Should Leave
• Goldbelly Food Delivery
• Series Heat
• Liz Hsiao Lan Alper on Twitter
• Matt Manfredi on Twitter
• Phil Hay on Twitter
• Aline Brosh McKenna on Twitter
• Stephen Follows on Twitter and his website
• Get a Scriptnotes T-shirt!
• Gift a Scriptnotes Subscription or treat yourself to a premium subscription!
• Craig Mazin on Twitter
• John August on Twitter
• John on Instagram
• Outro by Henry Adler (send us yours!)
• Scriptnotes is produced by Megana Rao and edited by Matthew Chilelli.

Email us at ask@johnaugust.com

You can download the episode here.

The post Scriptnotes, Episode 526: Just One Question, Transcript first appeared on John August.

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The original post for this episode can be found here.

John August: Hello and welcome. My name is John August.

Craig Mazin: My name is Craig Mazin.

John: And this is Episode 525 of Scriptnotes, a podcast about screenwriting and things that are interesting to screenwriters. Today on the show it’s another round of How Would This Be a Movie where we take a look at stories in the news and figure out how to transform them into quality filmed entertainment. This week we’re joined by a journalist who wrote one of our previous contenders to learn what it’s like having your work optioned by Hollywood.

Craig: I’m sure it’s great.

John: It’s the best experience in the world. It’s the dream.

Craig: It’s Hollywood.

John: We’ll also look at how you shape and tell true stories and answer some related listener questions. And in our bonus segment for premium members with studios owning publishers and the Writers Guild representing both screenwriters and journalists, what are the remaining distinctions between writing for Hollywood and writing for news media. We’ll dig into that.

Craig: I have thoughts.

John: Craig, most importantly, what are your thoughts on the brand new Scriptnotes hoodies? For the first time in 10 years we have Scriptnotes hoodies. Click that link. Take a look and tell us what you think of these hoodies.

Craig: Click that link. Smash that like button. I think it’s great. And I want one. And I’m just sort of like torn. I feel like I think I’m a large. You know what?

John: I got the large.

Craig: Yeah. Large feels right. Extra-large feels too roomy.

John: Yeah, the tent.

Craig: Yeah. Exactly. I don’t want to walk in tent. So, John, can I have a large?

John: You can have a large. We can actually order you a large. We’ll order that for you.

Craig: Give me a large. Now.

John: We’ll get you a large. But if you would like a large, if you’re a listener who would like a large or any size of these sweatshirts you have until November 18 at 5pm which is when they’re closing orders for this first – and you probably will not be able to get a hoodie by Christmas unless you order by November 18, 2021. So, get them now.

Craig: And this has passed the Stuart softness test?

John: It has. Absolutely. And so we’re looking for the right copy, and so Stuart’s sense of softness is how we always build the t-shirts. But Stuart Friedel has not been the producer of Scriptnotes for so long that newer listeners might not even know that Stuart had a prudential gift for figuring out the softest fabrics. And so instead we went to the Megana Rao test which is like could you wear this while cupping a giant mug of hot chocolate in your hands and would this be that comfy.

Craig: Right.

John: And we believe that these are that comfy.

Craig: So Baby Yoda would wear this while sipping soup?

John: It is a Baby Yoda-approved level of comfort.

Craig: Got it. Well, this is good, because Stuart I guess has just very sensitive skin. Because he was really into the softness thing. But he’s so right.

John: Our Scriptnotes t-shirts are remarkably soft. I don’t want to wear anything else.

Craig: They’re so good that I ordered a bunch of non-Scriptnotes, just blank t-shirts from – what is it called?

John: Cotton Bureau.

Craig: Cotton Bureau. Because it’s the tri-blend. Tri-blend. So this is the same thing, right? It’s made of Stuart’s shirt material?

John: This is the hoodie equivalent of the tri-blend. So I can’t promise that it’s the exact same thing because that would be too thin probably for this hoodie.

Craig: Of course. But that softness level I think is really important. Megana, your reputation is on the line. No pressure.

John: No pressure. All right. Let’s do some follow up. First off, last week we were talking about bringing in experts to be consultants on things. And we were talking specifically about military experts. Max wrote in to point out that there’s actually an organization called Veterans in Media and Entertainment which does exactly that. So, it’s a charitable organization that supports US military veterans. If you have a military subject they can find you an expert on it. So, we’ll put a link in the show notes to that. It’s vmeconnect.org.

Craig: Great. And they are a 501(c)(3) charitable organization. I love seeing it. Anytime we can promote one of these groups, please we will. And what do I mean by group. I mean any organization that is willing to share their expertise with writers gratis. We’re not looking for people who are accepting money. But if it’s a charitable organization of course like a 501(c)(3) then donations are always a possibility. But if there’s a group out there that is willing to just pick up the phone or answer an email to help screenwriters be accurate then we will spread the word.

John: We love it. Now some of the most anticipated follow up.

Craig: Drum roll.

John: Probably in the history of the show. We all remember who Oops was hopefully. So Oops was a writer who was working on a film and she had kind of fallen in love with, had a little crush on, a producer on the film and she wrote in asking for our advice on what do you do because you don’t want to mess up this situation. And you and I talked about it. Aline came on to talk about it. We now have follow up from Oops on what actually happened. Megana Rao, you are the voice of Oops on this podcast so if you can please give us the update from what Oops wrote in this week.

Megana Rao: All right. So Oops says, “I’m pleased to let you all know that I’m now Miss Oops Plus One. I have this weird millennial resistance to saying something like he’s my boyfriend, but yeah, it’s all kind of worked out. Yay for love. I’d love nothing more than to share expertly screen written blow by blows with the audience, but it’s funny how now I’m suddenly mentally concerned with his privacy. Anyway, I wanted to thank you guys and Aline and those who wrote in for such sage advice. I think back on those few weeks routinely and laugh. It was all rather silly and fun and I’m just so glad that I was cautious, thought about it a lot, and ultimately trusted my gut because she was right. Yours, Not Yet Planning the Scriptnotes Wedding but Never Ruling it Out, Oops.”

Craig: Oh, I am just beside myself with joy here. Because I don’t know if you remember I was definitely the guy pushing down pretty hard on the gas pedal. We are all aware that mixing romance and work these days is tricky. And I like the fact that Oops thought it through. She was really careful and it seems like her now boyfriend, because he is your boyfriend, I don’t care what you say Oops, her boyfriend was also careful. He was also thinking about it. And lo and behold we’re here to tell you that two responsible, rational, careful people can meet at work and fall in love. And become boyfriend/girlfriend. And I love it.

So, I’m happy. I think we needed a story like this. We needed to know that there was still room for healthy love in our business.

John: Congratulations to Oops. And congratulations to Oops’ boyfriend and her plus one.

Craig: Megana, are you happy?

Megana: I am very happy for Oops. I think they kept it a secret. I had to edit some of this out because of her concern for his privacy. But they kept it a secret for most of production and then right after production were official. But it seems like most of the crew knew the whole time.

Craig: Obviously. Everybody knows everything on a crew. Being with them now, I have been working with a crew now for months. And I think we all know like what we have for breakfast in the morning before we get to work. Everybody knows everything.

John: Yeah. To me the tell is always not that people are starting to talk to each other but they suddenly stop talking to each other. It’s like, ah, yeah, you’re trying not to let us all know what’s happened there.

Megana: That’s what she said, too. The night after they had that conversation they just stopped talking to each other completely at work.

Craig: Of course. And then everybody within 14 seconds was like, mmm, mm-hmm.

John: We all saw the chemistry. Now there’s not communication. Yeah.

Craig: OK, it happened. What else is going on out there, John? Anymore follow up?

John: Oh, Craig, the other big piece of follow up that you’re so looking forward to is MoviePass is back.

Craig: Yes!

John: So excited. So we’ll put a link in the show notes to this article about MoviePass co-founder Stacy Spikes was granted ownership of the company and basically he was able to buy it out of bankruptcy. Maybe it was $250,000. Maybe it was less than that that he was able to buy it.

Craig: You can’t get a tear-down two bedroom in Los Angeles County for that amount of money. And this is what MoviePass was apparently worth.

John: Yeah. So I’m excited for this new chapter. It’s really a thing I thought was dead and gone.

Craig: It is.

John: But of course it’s not.

Craig: It’s dead and gone.

John: Something will rise from the ashes of it. I just feel like with our Scriptnotes hoodie money we could have bought MoviePass. And I’ll never forgive myself for—

Craig: Sorry. You could have bought it because I don’t get that money, John. Megana, I need you – Megana, listen to me. I need information. You’re going to have to start showing me the books. Something is going on here.

John: Mm. Yeah.

Craig: Look how quiet Megana got.

Megana: I’m just funneling all of that money to myself.

Craig: Of course you are.

Megana: That’s the truth of it.

Craig: D’oh!

John: Now, the other exciting bit of news I saw in this article is that Mark Wahlberg’s production company, Unrealistic Ideas, is currently developing a documentary on the rise and fall of MoviePass based on this reporting. So in many ways it is a How Would This Be a Movie situation which is the perfect segue to our main topic today which is How Would This Be a Movie. So, people who are familiar with this podcast is every couple of weeks we take a look through stories in the news, stories from history, and figure out how we can transform them into quality filmed entertainment. We saw How Would This Be a Movie but more likely a limited series. And we discuss what’s in that story, who the characters could be, what kind of movie or TV show it could be, the tone.

We just try to do what writers do, which is take stuff that’s thrown our way and figure out how to transform it. But this week we have a very special guest because Zeke Faux is on the show. Zeke, can you tell us who you are?

Zeke Faux: My name is Zeke Faux. I’m an investigative reporter for Bloomberg Business Week. And a few years ago I wrote a story that I called The Phantom Debt Vigilante that you so nicely highlighted on a previous version of this segment.

John: So this was back in Episode 339 we talked about it. And we loved the story that you wrote and we also thought like, oh, there’s good potential here for a movie. But can you talk us through the short version of like who the central character was in the story that you wrote and what it was about?

Zeke: So, the story opens with this salesman, Andrew Therrien, normal guy. He’s just sitting around at home when he gets a call from a debt collector. This surprises him because he doesn’t owe any money. And he sort of gets into it with the debt collector. And the debt collector threatens his wife. And this just sets Andrew off and he goes out on a mission to figure out who this debt collector was, why they called him, and he actually uncovers this massive nationwide conspiracy, tracks down the bad guy at the center of it. And in the end brings him to justice.

So he’s one of the favorite people I’ve ever met through work. It was so exciting when I heard this story. And I couldn’t believe it myself. And each time I would check something out and find out that it was actually true I was like, whoa. So, yeah, that’s the guy.

John: So, you heard about this story, you pursued it, you wrote up the story. And at what point did it start attracting attention of Hollywood people? Because we talked about it on the show but I think, correct me if I’m wrong, before we even mentioned it people had sort of scoped it out. Correct?

Zeke: Yeah. I think that it had been optioned by the time you talked about it. I’ve been through this a few times and basically if you write a story that’s exciting and has a character and a plot it’s not so unusual that you’ll start getting emails from producers or these sort of scout type people asking if the rights to the story are available.

In this case I got a lot of emails right away, like probably the day that it came out. And then more on the following weeks.

John: So talk to us about these emails. Because these are coming from producers or scouts or other folks. What are they specifically asking for? Are they saying like would you consider selling the rights to this? Can you tell us what else there is here? Is there a movie? What are those emails actually asking for?

Zeke: Well, this is some good info for any magazine writer colleagues. I realized that a lot of these emails are from almost like interns who are just wanting to confirm that the rights might be available before they tell their boss about this cool story that they read. So the first time I got one of these emails is from a different story and I was ready to pick up my tux for the Oscars. But then I realized that this was just some intern who hadn’t even like told his boss about it yet and just wanted to make sure that this was a story that one could buy the rights for.

So, yeah, they’re usually pretty vague and just asking if I’m the person to talk to, or if I have an agent or something like that.

John: Great. Was this your first story that actually got optioned?

Zeke: No, I’ve had a few before this one. And generally I hand people off to my agent pretty quickly because it’s hard for me to know who is for real. And then they will help narrow down who might actually be worth considering and talking to. And I’ve never had one that was some crazy bidding war that everyone in town wanted to buy, so it’s often just comes down to a couple people and then we pick based on who seems most credible or honestly who has an interesting take on the story.

Craig: If I may be so bold, what kind of money are we talking about here? You don’t have to give me an exact dollar figure, but range wise? What’s a typical sort of option fee for these things?

Zeke: It’s a good question. I mean, a lot of people will try to option things for as little as nothing, which is obviously not that appealing.

Craig: Nothing sucks.

Zeke: I’ve done some research on this since I’ve started getting involved in it and talking to other writers and so I think that at the low end would be around $5,000 and then the high end for articles, I mean, I’ve heard of ones that go into six figures but I think that’s really unusual.

Craig: So talking roughly between $5,000 and maybe $75,000? Something in that zone?

Zeke: Yes. And that’s for the option, which they have to pay upfront. And then the purchase price is higher.

John: So let’s talk about what they’re actually buying, because in this case you had a relationship with Andrew Therrien and had done all this reporting, but some of that stuff is just public fact. Someone could take the idea of a guy who sort of goes after a debt collector. They don’t need your article to do that. So what are they actually buying when they option the rights to that story?

Zeke: It’s actually a question that I’ve thought about myself. And a producer explained it to me once. And he said that back in the day he used to go to these meetings with almost like a sandwich board and he’d be pitching people on some idea that he had for this amazing true story that should be a movie and flipping through the pages. And he said that if he was going to buy an article it was basically just so that they would have something to talk about and some sort of source material that could sort of get the project going.

Craig: Yeah. It seems to me a lot of times like producers will buy these things to create some air of exclusivity or, I don’t know what you would call it, legitimacy. But as we’ve discussed here legally speaking if you write an article, and I’m sure this has happened to you, some jerk like me can read it and just use it. Anything that’s in the article is usable. It’s out there in the world. It’s the stuff behind it – if we wanted to write a story about the gentleman that you’ve investigated what we are buying I suppose from you that is of value beyond the story you wrote is all of your notes, all of the additional stuff that didn’t get into the story. Because that’s still yours.

But my understanding is if you publish it in Bloomberg Business Week and I read it I can pretty much use whatever you wrote there because it’s public record.

Zeke: Right. I mean, my stories are true so you’re not—

Craig: Exactly.

Zeke: These things really happened.

Craig: I like that you have to say that. My stories are true, by the way.

Zeke: So, this is another way I think about it. I mean, I don’t know how much would you get paid to write a screenplay, like probably quite a lot of money.

Craig: Yes.

Zeke: So wouldn’t it be pretty cheap to not option the story?

Craig: Yes.

Zeke: It’s so cheap you might as well just do it if you’re going to hire a good screenwriter to write the screenplay.

Craig: Yes. If you are a producer you’re absolutely right. And it may be that – everything is a competition. So you write a great article. And there are going to be four producers, hopefully, competing to get the rights to that article. And then that producer is going to make that article an object of competition for a bunch of writers. Or, the other way around is there’s a writer and five people are trying – I’ve had this experience and John I’m sure you have, too – where I’ve had more than one producer call me to ask me to write the blah-blah story and it’s the same story.

John: Yeah.

Craig: In one case, oh, you know what it was? It was Game Stop?

John: I got Game Stop.

Craig: I got Game Stop by two different producers who had each optioned or outright bought two different articles.

Zeke: I actually had someone ask me if I could write something about it so that they could option it.

Craig: Right. I mean, so I think what we’re getting at here is that you are doing real work out there and screenwriters are doing real work out here. And in between are producers that just–

John: Or studio execs who are just like Ah!

Craig: Making stuff up.

John: Now, Zeke, a question for you. In the case of the article we’re talking about it so focused on Andrew’s story. Were they also optioning his life rights or were they just taking your story?

Zeke: My policy on that is that if someone wants to do something with life rights that’s their business. I don’t want to be in business with the subject of my stories.

Craig: Right. You’re not brokering their life rights.

Zeke: Yes. So that’s something that everybody has to consider on their own.

John: Right.

Craig: Makes total sense.

John: Now let’s talk about your relationship with the screenwriter on this project, because you’re saying that the person you ended up going with was a producer and they had a screenwriter involved. Did you have any direct interactions with that screenwriter?

Zeke: This was pretty standard. Usually you have a call or two with the screenwriter at the beginning and it’s pretty fun. I like to tell them, you know, I always have a lot of outtakes to talk about. And we’ll give them any extra materials that they want. But then after that I usually don’t hear from them.

Craig: Right.

Zeke: But I understand that because you need time to develop your own take on the story and having somebody else who has a very specific take on it could be kind of distracting.

Craig: Well there’s probably not a lot of good news that could come out of subsequent conversations because when you’re adapting something of course you are altering it to some extent. And if you are calling the journalist who wrote the article odds are you’re not calling them to tell them how faithful you’ve been. And so this is normal and also I assume as a fully-fledged professional adult you’re aware that once you sign these things away all sorts of stuff might happen.

Zeke: Yeah. And I’ll just say I love writing magazine stories. I want the story to be perfect and so fun to read on the page. And I want it to inspire people who read it. And if it also inspires some screenwriter who wants to go do something that’s awesome. But I don’t really care what they do with it.

Craig: Because what you wrote still exists.

John: Exactly.

Craig: And always shall.

John: Yeah. We always talk about when an author sells the rights to a book to make into a movie that book still sits on the shelf. And no matter what I do in the adaptation that book will always be there. And so that was your vision of a thing and this is someone else’s vision of a thing. What is the current status of this project now? Is that going to be moving forward? Is the option still happening? What’s going on with this movie right now?

Zeke: That’s a great question and the answer sort of illustrates my place on the totem pole in the moviemaking process. I actually do not know what’s going on.

John: All right. So Zeke while we have you hear we’d love your input on this segment that we do called How Would This Be a Movie where we talk through stories in the news and figure out how they can be movies. And you will have an insight because you’ve been the journalist reporting these stories.

Zeke: So I accidentally happened on what I feel like is a weird trick to get producers in your magazine story.

John: I’m so excited by this.

Craig: I want to hear this weird trick.

Zeke: In an earlier story the subject of the story said something to me that became the first quote in the story. And he said, “Remember the movie American Hustle. It’s kind of like that with way more dirt and twists.” I just put that in because it was funny. It’s a funny thing to say. But then I was having these meetings with producers and they would say to me totally straight-faced, “You know, it really reminded me of American Hustle.” So I thought to myself if it’s at all relevant maybe mention the name of a movie in your story.

Craig: Oh my god.

Zeke: That will sort of set their movie alert. So for a couple of years if I found a good spot and it seemed relevant, I mean, I don’t want to compromise a story, but I would mention the name of a movie. So, I had another one about this sort of triple agent informant in the drug wars and I said that he was kind of Narcos Forrest Gump. And this guy called me up, for real, he’d won an Oscar. And he was like, “Narcos meets Forrest Gump. Narcos/Forrest Gump. I’m coming out to New York to take you out to lunch.” And I was like, great.

So we went out to lunch and he just kept saying Narcos Forrest Gump. And so much that I wasn’t even sure if he had read the whole article because that was near the top.

Craig: He hasn’t.

Zeke: The lunch sort of petered out because we were running out of ways to talk about Narcos Forrest Gump.

Craig: That’s amazing.

John: Amazing.

Craig: Amazing.

Zeke: Yeah. Just mention the name of a movie. That’s my tip for magazine writers.

Craig: I think what Zeke is really putting his finger on here is how stupid so many producers are. I mean, they don’t read. They have a staff of people that tell them things. They do hinge on something and they forget who told it to them so quickly that they think they thought it. And, Zeke, I will tell you that just because a producer has an Oscar doesn’t mean that they’re not stupid. Because if something wins Best Picture then the producer gets the Oscar, but a lot of producers really are just stupid.

I clearly don’t want to work in Hollywood anymore. By the way, that’s becoming super obvious.

John: Yeah. We’ve known that for a time.

Craig: But some producers are amazing. And if you produce something I did I’m sure I’m talking about you when I say amazing. But everybody else, stupid.

John: Stupid.

Craig: Stupid.

John: All right. Let’s get into these movies and figure out which producers will hang on one idea in this and forget what they actually read or saw.

Craig: Great.

John: There’s five of them and two of them have interactive elements too which I think is really fun, or they are like cartoons/animations. I love this.

Craig: I love these. Yes. Fun.

John: It’s not all reading. You can actually sort of look at things.

Craig: Thank god.

John: So we’ll start with this story by Andy Hoffman and Benedikt Kammel. This was from Bloomberg and is Bloomberg the same as Bloomberg Business Week? Zeke, help me out.

Zeke: Bloomberg is the parent company and this story was actually in Bloomberg Business Week’s annual heist issue which all you screenwriters should keep an eye out for because it’s full of cool stories.

John: And what’s great about this one is it is a comic. And so it’s telling the story of this Swiss trader is trying to buy copper for a Chinese buyer. He finds some in Turkey. So they load this copper into a shipping container and then overnight people break into the shipping containers, swap out that copper with painted rocks, seal it back up and ship it off to wherever it’s going, to China someplace. They did this seven more times and for a total of $36 million worth of painted rocks. And it looks like it’s probably an inside job. There’s 16 people charged at the time of this writing.

Craig, start us off. Is there a movie here?

Craig: No. No there is not. What there is is a great scene. This feels like one of those things that would open a great ‘70s heist movie where you’re introducing characters and you’re showing how scammy they are and how either clever or not clever they are or how clever but unlucky they are. It’s such an audacious move and it’s got a great reveal which is a bunch of guys are loading copper in and on the other side the crate arrives and like a magic trick even though you’ve been watching it the whole time when the thing opens it’s a bunch of rocks.

By the way, this is a real question. If you’re going to take copper out and shove a bunch of rocks in and then reseal the container why are you painting the rocks copper? Who is that going to fool? It didn’t fool anybody for even one second. So why even bother painting the rocks?

John: My guess is that when they first open, because it’s sort of slag copper, it’s not good copper, when you first open it and just do a quick visual inspection you might not realize that it’s not copper. And so give you an extra day’s time before they actually load it.

Obviously they need the weight because they need it to feel full.

Craig: I get the rock part. But, yeah, it seems more like a scene and a character introducer. There’s no way to make a series or even movie about this because it’s just one thing and I don’t find it particularly interesting. There’s no comment or reflection of the human condition. It’s just theft.

John: So, Zeke, help us out. Because I feel like there is more to the story here, because this was deliberately a very small slice of it. But it didn’t get into the characters. It didn’t get into what the actual organization was behind this. Can you anticipate if you were to do the reporting what kinds of people and schemes behind the scenes might you figure out?

Zeke: I mean, ideally the people behind this might be in jail and pleaded guilty and be willing to tell you the whole thing that happened. I mean, personally I don’t get that excited this as an inside job because I want it to be some sort of really sneaky operation. Maybe if these were low level workers and they were somehow getting revenge on their terrible boss then it could be fun.

John: I hear you there. Because I also get frustrated because at least with the information we have right now they’re obviously going to get caught. There’s sort of no way you could not get caught. And so it’s a trick you can play once and if you try to play it seven times they’re going to figure out where the switch happened.

If the heist had happened at sea where they’re actually switching the containers there there’s a more interesting way to get to it. But I agree with both of you that I think it’s a scene, it’s a moment, in a completely different story and doesn’t really help us out here.

All right, let’s get to the one that Craig was excited about last night as we were talking about. The Secret History of Sushi.

Craig: Love this.

John: This is New York Times story by Daniel Fromson with illustrations by Igor Bastidas. Craig, can you talk us through what this is about?

Craig: This is magic. This is – every now and then you read a story that kind of blows your mind because it’s about something that was in front of your face for most of your life and you had no idea what was really behind it. So, apparently the history of sushi, and we can sort of skip the part where it’s how sushi developed in Japan and get to the part that’s sort of mind-blowing. So there was a cult that John anybody our age is familiar with or older, I don’t know if the millennials are quite as familiar with it. But the Reverend Sun Myung Moon was a kind of a Korean Christian Messianic culty figure who came to the United States I believe in the ‘70s. And was infamous for these mass marriages that he would oversee.

John: The mass weddings. Yeah.

Craig: But early on when he was still kind of small time in New York many of his adherents were Japanese which in and of itself is a bit odd. And he had this idea that in order to help fund the church that they should start bringing sushi to the United States. And in order to bring sushi to the United States he tapped this group of five or six or seven of his adherents and scattered them across the United States. And all of them were working in service of this corporation called True World Seafood. And True World is a reference to some nonsense that Reverend Moon believes in, I don’t know, some crap about whatever the world becoming something else. Doesn’t matter.

Point being they did it. These guys created the largest fresh seafood distributor in the United States and in Canada I believe and in some other places. And they did in fact create the sushi movement. I mean, it surfed along with a kind of Japan-ophilia thing that happened in the ‘80s, but they still to this day are the largest supplier of seafood to sushi restaurants. When you go and you eat sushi in the US or Canada you are eating fish that was very likely purchased initially and distributed and resold by a company that is intertwined with Reverend Moon’s Unification Church. And that is crazy. And how these guys did it and then the ensuing fallout when Moon died and the inevitable infighting happened within his family and then the lawsuits and the corporations.

It’s insane. And I loved it.

John: I loved it, too. And I think there is a movie here or a series. But to me it’s the question of like where do you put the boundaries of it. When do you start and when do you stop? And I don’t think you get into the later end stuff. I don’t think you get to the modern stuff. I think you just get to this crazy, impossible dream of like, OK, you’re going to go to Alaska and you’re going to go to Denver and start selling sushi in Denver and just really random people assigned to places and they just made it work. And there’s a comedy to that that I think is actually fun and exciting. But also problematic because this church was not without its own faults.

I think there’s a thing to be made here. Zeke, as you look at this article what jumps out to you? What are the threads that are interesting to you? And what’s the movie hook that you put in there so that some producer buys it and talks to you about it at lunch?

Zeke: I loved the presentation. Like as a magazine person it just looked amazing. And it’s pretty unusual to see one – I haven’t seen something like this before.

I think they did a really good job of connecting it to sushi. Like that made me more interested as a reader. If you just said, hey, this strange religious leader has a big fish company, I mean, that would be an OK story but presenting it as the secret history of sushi I think is what sells it as a story and to someone like you.

John: Agreed. Now, Craig, how do you make this? Do you make this – is it a movie? Is it a series? Where are your edges on the story?

Craig: Definitely a series. So, it’s not even a question of narrative application anymore. It used to be solely a question of narrative application. But now you have to also ask the question is anybody going to actually put it in a theater. Or even just show it streaming as a movie. In our minds now we have becomes really limited about what we see when we talk about movies. And this story does not have the explosive elements required to confine it to 90 minutes or two hours. So you need something really big and none of that is here.

This is absolutely some kind of limited series, but I would say a short one. I don’t think this needs five episodes or ten episodes. It needs maybe three. Personally, if I were putting my money into this I would actually be going down the documentary root. I think that’s the way to do this. The fictionalization of it is not as interesting to me as the facts in and of themselves. So I would probably go with a short documentary series on this.

John: Yeah. The reason why I think I want to see this as a fictional series is that I could just picture the moments where in the time period where you’re trying to introduce sushi into these places and just sort of like the confused stares you’re getting out of like, oh, we want to sell you some raw fish, and just trying to get people to eat this fish and just the absurdity of like, OK, I don’t know anything about what I’m doing but the church says I’m supposed to be doing this so I’m going to figure this out. I think those moments are so good.

I agree with you that it’s a series because it doesn’t want to fit nicely into 90 minutes. And there’s just going to be so many characters and so many situations. And you’re going to probably cover a number of years which just all works better as a series.

So, Zeke, I’m still going to press on if this were your story what would be the hook you’d want to put in there to make sure that a producer says oh yeah I get what this is?

Zeke: I was joking about that before, because I feel like – I’d like to think I’m above that now. But even as a writer I might have considered trying to develop some of the individual characters more. Like zooming in on, like you said, one of these particular people who is off in some weird place trying to introduce raw fish. I think that would be an interesting thread for the story. And probably would be interesting for somebody like you, too.

John: And actually one of the maybe challenges of this presentation, because people should click through the link because it’s really beautifully done.

Craig: Beautifully.

John: It’s all illustrated with animations that go through it. But because of that there aren’t the photos you might expect. And in addition to not really talking very much about the individual people without photos to sort of anchor like oh that is this guy, I could not tell you right now who most of the characters were in this piece. Because I was just focused on this is the sweep of the story. And it didn’t give me a lot of anchoring into who the people were who got sent off to these different places.

So a good counter example of this is our next story. This is a New Yorker story about migrant laborers who clean up after disasters. It’s Sarah Stillman writing this. And this is full of very detailed specific people whose faces we can see. These are folks who some of them are documented, some of them are undocumented. They’re mostly from Texas and Florida. But when there’s a disaster in the US there are these companies who subcontract with other companies who send workers in to sort of do the cleanup. So after huge storms, after natural disasters, these are the people who show up and do all that work. As Stillman’s story is documentary they obviously say like, oh, we’ll follow Covid-19 protocols. They’re not at all. Everyone is getting Covid. It’s terrible. Safety protocols aren’t there.

It also focuses on a man named Sacket Soni who is an organizer who is basically trying to protect these people and get them housed and fed and deal with wage theft. Craig, we’ll start with you. What did you see in terms of a potential story either for a movie or for a series out of this?

Craig: Doesn’t feel like one. There’s fascinating information here and there’s important here. It does feel like the kind of thing that if I were running a traditional news magazine format on television I would want to do this story for television in that format. A 60 Minutes kind of format. Because it’s important for people to know this and to see this.

However, there is not yet a kind of Cesar Chavez story that is completed. They are organizing and so we should see what happens with this. But overall what we’re seeing here is a pretty head on bit of journalism and I don’t think that this is the kind of story that adapts well to fictionalization in any format.

John: Zeke, as you’re looking at this do you agree? And if do agree are there things about this story that could be highlighter emphasized that would make it more of a Hollywood story?

Zeke: Interesting that you didn’t think it had potential for an adaptation, Craig, because I actually found it very cinematic when I was reading it. I just loved all of these amazing details like that she wore these gold hoop earrings that helped her feel elegant while she was doing this cleanup work. Or the sort of ironic signs she was always seeing.

That said, I agree that you don’t have the Erin Brockovich type plot yet. And then just to me it would seem odd to say based on a true story but then fictionalize some sort of more dramatic plot onto it. And then I was thinking if you don’t do that, if it doesn’t have a strong plot it might feel kind of similar to Nomadland.

John: I was thinking about Chloe Zhao the whole time through because I just felt like everything was happening sort of at sunsets and in beautiful disastrous places. And sort of the real life hardworking people who are actually doing the stuff and not getting paid properly for it felt like that sort of aesthetic.

Zeke: I’d be interested. It’s too bad we couldn’t ask the writer of this, because I am wondering how – I mean, obviously they’ve seen Nomadland and I’m sure they didn’t want it to seem too similar. It must have been actually challenging to try and write something that was really dramatic but then also in some ways similar to an Oscar-winning movie that came out recently.

Craig: Well, these stories sometimes give you – now I’ll speak like a purely exploitative fictionalist. When you read a story like this what you get is an interesting job for a character to have or characters to have in a movie that is about something else which is their life, their relationship with their children, or their spouse, or their significant other, or a romance. Some kind of life change.

So if in a movie we’re talking about a woman who has just gotten divorced and is restarting her life and this is the job she gets and this is where she meets somebody, that’s interesting. But the actual content of what’s happening here in terms of the way these people are being exploited and the economic ins and outs of this particular industry, that in and of itself is not a narrative that I think I would want to adapt the way for instance, you know, a narrative was created out of the whistleblower and the tobacco industry. It’s not quite that. It doesn’t have that circular narrative movement that we’re hoping for.

John: Now the other project I was thinking of was this Netflix series Maid which is Molly Smith Metzler writing about – taking a woman in a very specific situation and using that as the backdrop to tell a specific family story which I think Craig is what you were getting to. This is a huge canvas but you can decide to do the Erin Brockovich story about this issue or The Big Short. This is about this issue. Or you can have that be the arena in which you’re telling a much smaller story which might be the way to go through here.

And in that case I don’t know that you option this article because this article provides a big canvas but it doesn’t actually provide the distinct story points. Because you might choose to pick the woman who is featured here, Bellaliz Gonzalez, who is from Venezuela. As a central person you might choose to pick Sacket Soni who is this organizer. But you probably wouldn’t. You could just create your own character who is in that same situation and that’s your story.

Craig: Yup.

Zeke: It just reminds me of another article to film adaptation, American Honey.

John: Oh yeah.

Zeke: Shia LaBeouf movie about the kids selling magazines. Which is actually based on this amazing New York Times article from 2007 that was more of like an expose about how young people are getting exploited on magazine crews. And then when the movie, which I do think they had optioned that story, when that came out it was just like sort of inspired by it but totally different.

John: I think for what we’re describing we’re not sure if we would ever want to option this article. But I guess you could option this article, as you said at the start of this, you might option this article as a producer just to clear the field and to declare this story space. But you’re not getting a specific story you can tell.

Here’s a very specific story. Next up we have an article by Sarah McDermott writing for BBC about Pauline Dakin’s childhood in Canada in the 1970s. It was full of secrets, disruption, and unpleasant surprising. She wasn’t allowed to talk about her family life with anyone. And it wasn’t until she was 23 that she was told why.

So basically at 23 she learns that her family is on the run from the mafia and that the mafia is after them and they have to always be constantly careful. And at a certain point all of us as readers say like or your family is not telling you the truth and they’re all operating under some sort of delusion which appears to be the case.

Again, this is a very specific story that you could choose to tell. So we could talk about optioning this story or this as a kind of story. Zeke, help us out here. Think through as a journalist how do you start to tell this story? If you were to write this article where would you begin and what are the hooks for you?

Zeke: So this article actually would be – not that I can pitch a news story about some random events of someone’s lives that don’t really have any newsworthiness. But it actually would be a good starting place for the kind of story that I like to write because it’s missing all of the specifics and you could really dig in and try and create – like I want to start with some sort of really dramatic scene which I would find by interviewing the person and talking through all of this and finding out what parts of the story really seemed like most exciting to me.

The version that I was reading was just sort of the barebones outline of what happened, which would be great as a starting place to really dig in and get all the details, interview other people and see their perspective. Because oftentimes the main character doesn’t really have a good sense of how they behaved themselves. You have to talk with other people who saw the events.

John: Craig, what is your take on this story?

Craig: I love it. It’s terrific. I don’t know if I need the story. Meaning I don’t know if I want – the value of this I don’t think is that it really happened. I think this is just a great to use as inspiration to write a story about a kid and their parents and this life they’re living and the fear that they’re all under and to present it as real and then for this person to slowly realize none of it is real. This is very Shyamalanic. And that in fact something far more weird is happening.

And then the question of who is telling the truth and who is lying and if they’re lying why becomes really florid. And all of the value is about the relationship between a child and a parent. And that stuff requires fictionalization and dramatization to the point that I think this is just a great springboard. I would not want to write a movie where there is a character named Pauline Dakin and her mother, Ruth, and her stepfather, Stan. I would want to just take the inspiration from this. Because it’s a fascinating notion. And I would want to do some research into this concept of delusional disorder.

So it’s very inspiring and a wonderful story that Sarah McDermott has uncovered here. And it will be, oh it will certainly be optioned. No question about that. But personally I think the value is just in the suggestion.

John: I think back to Gillian Flynn’s book Gone Girl which was telling the story of oh did this husband kill his wife. And there were true life things that she could ingest into that, but she was telling a fictional story. And she didn’t need to use any of the real life things to do it and she could tell a much better story by not being bound to what really happened. So unlike a true crime novel she’s able to use all the stuff and build her own thing out of it.

And I guess I agree with you here. But I also very much hear what Zeke is saying is that there probably are really compelling moments and scenes and bits here that you could flesh out. That you could create an article that was even more Hollywood compelling given this basic framework.

Craig: Yeah.

John: All right. Our last story here is about Silibill N’ Brains. If you’re not familiar with Silibill N’ Brains they were a ‘90s hip hop duo that burst onto the scene. Let’s take a listen to a clip.

[Clip plays]

All right. So these are two California rappers. Very much in an Eminem style obviously. Fun. Great. MTV is loving them. They’re sort of rising up in music videos. And then it comes out that they’re actually two Scottish guys who just put on California accents and were just basically trying to ape all of their favorite rappers. And it all fell apart and it sort of got exposed in a Milli Vanilli sort of way.

Craig, is there a movie here?

Craig: No. I mean, it’s interesting but it feels very familiar to me. The idea of people being illegitimate and inauthentic and hiding that to get some sort of fame. And then it all comes crashing down. This is just very tired. And this is two levels of inauthenticity because it was already questionable when white people in the ‘90s started jumping on the hip hop bandwagon and trying to do that Vanilla Ice style. And then these guys were from Scotland which is even further away. And they weren’t even faking being black. They were faking being white.

John: They were faking being white in California which I think is great.

Craig: Yeah. But the point is I just don’t care. They weren’t famous enough. Nobody died. There was no shootings, explosions. The stakes were low. I struggle to care about this story. Maybe if they had been more famous. I don’t know, maybe that would make it even worse. Look, if there hasn’t been a Milli Vanilli movie, has there been?

John: I don’t think there’s been one.

Craig: Yeah. If there hasn’t been one of those I don’t see why we would get to this one. I think the Milli Vanilli is the canary in the coal mine. If we don’t want to make a movie about that I don’t know why we would want to make a movie about Silibill N’ Brains.

John: Now, Zeke, there’s three articles here we’ll link to. So we’re linking to an article by Tom Seymour for Vice, by Sam for DDW, and there’s also a documentary called The Great Hip Hop Hoax by Jeanie Finley. So this is areas that have been explored. Do you see a movie or a series coming out of this?

Zeke: I really didn’t like this idea at all until I listened to the song. I mean, it’s just so horrible that it’s kind of amazing that this ever fooled anyone. So, maybe it would be best as a documentary. And I was trying to think of some way to make this kind of relevant. Basically I come down on no, but I think one thing that’s a little interesting is why was everyone so eager to believe. And I think it’s because they wanted white rappers. They wanted some next Eminem. And so I feel like there’s kind of a racist element to it that could make it kind of interesting to explore, but still not that interesting.

John: Yeah. I think there’s a Lonely Island movie here where you can just – you find the right two kids who have the right charisma and you can just play with all these themes and use their songs but write other great parody songs. So do you need this exact story? Maybe not. And I guess they already made Popstar: Never Stop Never Stopping or whatever. So maybe it’s kind of already been done.

Craig: By geniuses.

John: They’re geniuses. And so I feel like the right people could approach this and make something great. But it’s not a slam dunk by any stretch. It’s very execution dependent.

All right, let’s do a recap of our stories here and figure out which of these might actually become movies. Zeke, if you had to pick between our five here which is the movie. Which gets optioned?

Zeke: You were very down on it but I actually think that the story about the migrant workers is the one that people would go for.

John: All right. Craig, of these five which is the movie?

Craig: Sushi.

John: Sushi. I am going to go with sushi as well. I think sushi is the one that – it’s not a movie, it’s probably a limited series, but I think that’s the one that most happens. But I’m excited for all of these. And I want to thank all of our listeners because I put out on Twitter a call for suggestions and most of these came from their suggestions.

Here’s the ones we didn’t cover just so you can—

Craig: And you’re telling us about them?

John: Yes. Ivy Getty’s Wedding was amazing. But, no, we don’t care.

Craig: We don’t care.

John: The 1902 eruption of Mount Pelée on Martinique. Great.

Craig: I’ve already done a thing blowing up. I can’t do it again.

John: The billionaire space race. We’re in the middle of it, so no.

Craig: Yup.

John: The Havana Syndrome. We don’t know what’s really happening, so no. Chinese dancing grandmas.

Craig: Adorable.

John: Kind of interesting.

Craig: Hysterical. Not a movie. But I like that people are throwing bags of pee on them. It’s an amazing story.

John: Biker getting breast milk.

Craig: What?

John: So it’s these biker gangs who formed a shuttle service to bring breast milk to mothers who need breast milk.

Craig: Such a great band name.

John: Yeah. The plot to dig up Lincoln’s body was actually a great story. It just came a little too late, so we’ll keep that for the next one.

Craig: Because he died a long time ago.

John: Yeah. So basically people are trying to dig up his body and hold it for ransom.

Craig: What? Oh boy.

John: You’ll love it. It’s terrific. The IVF mix-up leaves an LA couple giving birth to another family’s baby. Yeah. The bio of Ruth Fertel who created Ruth’s Chris Steak House. It’s fascinating. So she’s good. The great emu war which is about the plot to eradicate emu, sort of like cut back on emus in Australia. They’re already making a movie so it’s too late.

Craig: Too late.

John: And Stagecoach Mary who was a groundbreaking black postal carrier in the old days, olden days. She seems great. There’s a biopic maybe to be made there but it didn’t make it in time for this one. So, good suggestions everybody.

Craig: Thank you folks.

John: Now, Zeke as we transition out of this I want to talk to you about point of view in a magazine piece because in this article we first talked about that you wrote clearly we’re on the POV of this guy who is investigating these scams. But as a journalist when do you know who the person is that you’re going to be focused on and going to hang the story around? Does that come pretty early or only as you sit down to really start writing it?

Zeke: I always like to have a really exciting story with a point of view. So I might find a space that I find is interesting. Like in that case I’d been looking into debt collection for quite a long time. Maybe I’d even written some straight news stories. And then when I meet someone who is a great character I get really excited and I think about how can I use everything that I’ve learned about this shady debt collection industry to inform a story that would be more compelling to read because it centers on a character.

John: And do you ever feel guilty thinking about people as characters? Or is that just the nature of the work you’re doing?

Zeke: Absolutely. I mean, it’s incredibly important to me that the story is true. It’s a tricky thing because when you tell the truth about someone they might not even recognize it. So I can’t be overly concerned with how the subject will react to the story, but I also want it to read like if someone who knows the subject reads it I want it to read true. And I can’t take any liberties at all with the timing of events or the characters.

You have a lot of constraints as a writer of true stories that you wouldn’t if you were writing a screenplay. And in this case it was kind of interesting. The subject really took exception to the fact that I called him stocky which I did think was an insulting adjective.

Craig: I’m stocky. I think it’s very nice.

Zeke: Yeah, I mean he’s a big perfectly good-looking guy. I mean, not even that big. I don’t think stocky means that big. Anyway, of all the things that’s what he didn’t really like, but we still joke about it so I guess he got over it.

John: This last week I was talking on a Zoom call with two writers who were working with the Inevitable Foundation which is a foundation that helps disabled writers past middle career up into becoming showrunners. And one of them was working on a project that was centered around this civil rights figure. And someone who was kind of always behind the scenes but actually had a really compelling life story.

And she was running into a problem where she had all this research and all these facts about this character but didn’t feel like she sort of knew who the person was or what the person’s voice was. And I was trying to encourage her to really channel her inner Aaron Sorkin and just make a choice and just run with it. And it strikes me as such a different thing for what I’m telling a screenwriter to do versus what you as a journalist has to tell another journalist to do. You can’t put words in a person’s mouth whereas she has to put words in a person’s mouth and has to actually have the confidence to just create a voice for this person who no longer exists.

Zeke: Yeah. I mean, I would find that really hard. And the amazing thing about this story, a lot of my stories don’t even have much dialogue. In this story the guy had taped everything. And when I heard these tapes I honestly wanted to cry. The dialogue was so amazing. I just couldn’t believe that this guy actually – I mean, he actually said things that are as good as what you guys would make up. So that was a very unique situation, but ideally I can put myself in a place where I can observe someone actually doing stuff and hear how they actually relate to other people. That’s a little more authentic than just interviewing them and hearing what they say to me.

John: Yup. All right. Let’s get to our listener questions because we have two that are very much on topic here. Megana, do you want to start us off?

Megana: So Chase from London writes, “I’m currently developing a script based on a pretty famous historical trial. The story has been adapted a few times in different mediums, most famously with a golden era legal drama. But I believe a retelling would have a completely different weight and meaning if written for a modern audience. My question is whether I should watch and read every previous adaptation of this story in my research. Is it helpful or harmful to see how other writers dramatized certain events? Are there copyright complications to look out for when drawing upon the same courtroom transcripts for dialogue?”

John: I don’t think you should look at all the other adaptations because you will start judging what you’re doing based on what they were doing and it will become a trap and you shouldn’t do it. Craig, what’s your thought?

Craig: If it’s been adapted a lot I think you have to at least – you don’t want to study those things because I agree with John. But what you don’t want to do is just mistakenly replicate a bunch of stuff because then you’re going to hear about it when you send your script around. Everyone is going to say well yeah it’s not that you ripped them off, it just doesn’t seem different enough. We already have that movie. What do we need this movie for?

In terms of drawing on the same courtroom transcripts for dialogue, no, those are facts. Those are a published public record and anyone can use that freely. The problem is if someone else has used it freely you’re a little bit stuck. Just because you can doesn’t mean you’re not going to seem like somebody who is a Johnny Come Lately.

You’re in a tough spot here. And I guess the way I would turn it around to you, Chase, is to say why are you developing a script based on a pretty famous historical trial that has been adapted a few times in different mediums, most famously with a golden era legal drama? I know you say a retelling would have a completely different weight and meaning if written for a modern audience, but maybe that’s not enough? You just don’t want to seem like you’re delivering something that feels warmed over.

Writing for a modern audience, I’m not sure what that means exactly. If it’s just a question of language and such then I’m concerned. If you’re talking about retelling that story from a very different perspective then you might be onto something, in which case I don’t think you have to worry so much. But if you’re doing something straight on that’s been done a bunch it’s going to be an issue.

John: Zeke, if you’re writing something in an area or about a story topic do you read other writers writing on that topic? Or is that in bad form? Tell me about the research you’re doing and reading other writers.

Zeke: I feel like it’s my duty to read everything that I possibly can. But I understand why you might not want to. It’s hard to avoid feeling influenced if you’re – I mean, I would prefer not to write a story about something that somebody else has already written a great magazine story about because it is challenging to set aside their take and write your own original one.

John: All right. We’re running short on time so we’re going to cap it at one question here. And it’s time for our One Cool Things. My One Cool Thing is called Friendsgiving by Miry’s List. So Miry’s List is a great charity that works with immigrant families, refugee families that come to the states, mostly to Los Angeles, and helps them get set up in apartments with furniture and food and toys for their kids, and books and such.

I was first introduced to them by Rachel Bloom. They are fantastic. So I’ve been supporting them for the past couple years. Their Friendsgiving campaign is especially important this year because they have a bunch of new Afghan families that have come to Los Angeles and need some support. So, I’ll have a link in the show notes for that, but it’s Friendsgiving by Miry’s List.

Craig, what do you got for us this week?

Craig: So my One Cool Thing this week is Once Cool Person named Jasmila Žbani?. She is currently directing an episode of The Last of Us for our production and she’s terrific. She is a Bosnian filmmaker and I became aware of her through the last feature film she made which is called Quo Vadis, Aida? And that was nominated for Best Foreign Film in the last round of Oscars. It’s a wonderful movie, heartbreaking movie about the terrible events in Srebrenica. The terrible war that tore Sarajevo apart and just a brutal conflict between Serbs and Bosnians.

I just like drawing people’s attention to it because I think normally if somebody says, oh, there’s a Bosnian movie and it’s about war you might go, meh, I don’t. But what’s so brilliant about Quo Vadis, Aida is that it focuses on a woman who has a fascinating job. She is a translator who is the go-between between these Bosnian refugees seeking shelter in a UN compound and the Dutch soldiers who are in charge of the UN peacekeeping compound and of course everybody then uses English as the lingua franca. And so I guess it’s lingua anglica. And that woman’s story is an incredible way to work in and out of this brutal story.

Jasmila is just a terrific filmmaker and a wonderful person. I am having such a great time with her. So I thought I would spread the news about her and her movie as my One Cool Thing.

Oh, and I do have one other cool thing. It’s my new nickname for me and Megana. Because I was thinking about it. We had talked about Ben Affleck and Ana de Armas. And somebody pointed out obviously how did we miss BenAna.

Megana: BenAna.

Craig: BenAna is just like how did we miss it. It’s just right there. And then I was like what happens when Megana and I start dating. And obviously we’d be Craigana. So, I’m just super excited. Craigana is the new thing. #Craigana. And the story of our romance and how it begins in winter and ends when fall arrives, obviously. It’s just such a great story.

Megana: Because I just become unbearable during the fall? Yeah.

Craig: What happens is everything is going OK and then you message Spooky Season in August and that starts to get me really worried, and then it just gets worse and worse. And so by the time Thanksgiving arrives it’s over.

John: Zeke, save us. If you have a refugee related One Cool Thing then that would be fantastic and it would check all the boxes. But tell us, do you have a One Cool Thing for us this week?

Zeke: Mine is actually kind of nerdy. It’s productivity software. Or, I shouldn’t call it that but it’s called Roam Research.

John: I love Roam Research. We can geek out about Roam Research.

Craig: Oh. Oh good.

Zeke: It’s kind of intimidating. It looks like something that’s almost for like computer programmers, but once you learn to use it I feel like when I open it it’s like I’m opening my favorite paper notebook and I just feel really free to write down whatever. If you don’t know it, it just opens up to a page with a date at the top and you start writing stuff down. And you can tag it with whatever tags you want. You end up creating your own personal Wikipedia that’s really easily searchable. Because at any given time I’m researching so many different topics it’s really hard to keep them straight. And this makes it super easy.

I’m starting to work on my first book which is a really intimidating organizational challenge and there’s just so many different threads to keep in the air and so many different things to research. But I feel like I feel weird giving this free ad for this software but I feel like I can do it now by using this. And that I won’t lose track of all the 18 different things that I have to research.

John: I think it’s great as well. So I’ve been using that. And it’s like Workflowy but with much looser organization, sort of like a very freeform taxonomy. It’s really smart. People should give it a shot.