The Other Side of Sales: Recent Episodes
Ashleigh Early
The B2B sales podcast for the rest of us. We tell the stories and share the insights of B2B sales professionals that don't fit the stereotypical mold of "sales bro." Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Summary
Lisa Ekeroth is a human rights advocate and abuse survivor who is passionate about the use of communication via intentional language practices as a vehicle for healing the human race. Lisa currently works as a clinical workflows consultant for Ritten, a venture-backed EHR startup. She comes on the show to talk share her wisdom on SDR development, what effective sales leadership looks like, why empathy in the workplace is important, and so much more. Stay tuned!
EHR and Ritten 101
- The concept of electronic health records has been around for a while and Ritten is specific to behavioural health, mental health, and addiction treatment.
- EHR spans all types of healthcare.
Eliminating Podcast Traumatic Bad Job Syndrome
- Recruiting new salespeople in SDR positions can be a daunting task but the most important part of managing is helping them sell and coaching them through problems.
- 2 or 3 months of not hitting quota shouldn't dictate if an SDR is good or not for the organization. A good sales manager doesn’t typically use quarterly trends to determine a salesperson's performance; the same should apply to SDR development and sales development in general.
Systemizing Great Sales Management/Leadership
- It’s a constant struggle for most sales organizations to build a culture where managers are accommodating to their teams regarding failure and making mistakes. It should be a norm that all managers adhere to.
- Getting rid of a salesperson after investing in their recruitment and professional development should not be done hastily.
Connection and Empathy in the Workplace
- When she started out in her last sales role, she devised a plan specific to how she would deal with all the triggers that could negatively affect her performance.
- She had two journals with her daily, one for work and one for personal use. The journals acted as a hedge for her to vent when she was triggered by anything or anyone.
- It’s critical for sales leaders to be empathetic towards their salespeople because it builds a trusting culture and salesperson is inspired to perform to the best of their ability.
A Career-Changing Discovery
- Learning to trust her workmates to support her when needed was quite a journey for her.
- She learned to focus less on the kind of product she wanted to sell or market she could sell in, and more on being in a conducive work environment with a great culture.
Communication Practices
- Through a course she’s been doing for her own personal development called “The Authentic Life Course”, she’s been able to fulfil her goal of building skills around authentic communication.
- She’s learned how to engage with others openly and examine challenging questions. That has enabled her to hold space and have insights into her relationship with her job and how she executes her goals.
Resources
- Outreach.io
Connect With Lisa Ekeroth
Connect With Evan
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
Summary
Lisa Ekeroth is a human rights advocate and abuse survivor who is passionate about the use of communication via intentional language practices as a vehicle for healing the human race. Lisa currently works as a clinical workflows consultant for Ritten, a venture-backed EHR startup. She comes on the show to talk share her wisdom on SDR development, what effective sales leadership looks like, why empathy in the workplace is important, and so much more. Stay tuned!
EHR and Ritten 101
- The concept of electronic health records has been around for a while and Ritten is specific to behavioural health, mental health, and addiction treatment.
- EHR spans all types of healthcare.
Eliminating Podcast Traumatic Bad Job Syndrome
- Recruiting new salespeople in SDR positions can be a daunting task but the most important part of managing is helping them sell and coaching them through problems.
- 2 or 3 months of not hitting quota shouldn't dictate if an SDR is good or not for the organization. A good sales manager doesn’t typically use quarterly trends to determine a salesperson's performance; the same should apply to SDR development and sales development in general.
Systemizing Great Sales Management/Leadership
- It’s a constant struggle for most sales organizations to build a culture where managers are accommodating to their teams regarding failure and making mistakes. It should be a norm that all managers adhere to.
- Getting rid of a salesperson after investing in their recruitment and professional development should not be done hastily.
Connection and Empathy in the Workplace
- When she started out in her last sales role, she devised a plan specific to how she would deal with all the triggers that could negatively affect her performance.
- She had two journals with her daily, one for work and one for personal use. The journals acted as a hedge for her to vent when she was triggered by anything or anyone.
- It’s critical for sales leaders to be empathetic towards their salespeople because it builds a trusting culture and salesperson is inspired to perform to the best of their ability.
A Career-Changing Discovery
- Learning to trust her workmates to support her when needed was quite a journey for her.
- She learned to focus less on the kind of product she wanted to sell or market she could sell in, and more on being in a conducive work environment with a great culture.
Communication Practices
- Through a course she’s been doing for her own personal development called “The Authentic Life Course”, she’s been able to fulfil her goal of building skills around authentic communication.
- She’s learned how to engage with others openly and examine challenging questions. That has enabled her to hold space and have insights into her relationship with her job and how she executes her goals.
Resources
- Outreach.io
Connect With Lisa Ekeroth
Connect With Evan
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
Ed Porter is the Founder of Blue Chip CRO and a Fractional Chief Revenue Officer helping companies align revenue teams and fix revenue problems. Today, he talks about how aligned revenue teams (marketing, sales, enablement, and customer success) can build accountability at every step of an organization, leading to accelerated and sustainable growth. He will also share some key sales and customer success strategies and so much more. Stay tuned!
Oopsing into Sales
- He grew up in the outsourced contact center world and by age 23 he was overseeing almost 1,100 people across several different locations.
Empowering Sales Reps
Ed highlights that companies are investing more in support and enablement geared towards supporting employees to be successful. He feels that that should go hand in hand with quarterly reviews.
Team Alignment
Sales organizations are always bound to experience friction between channel sales and direct sales teams and Ed says that solving that boils down to defining and clarifying what goes through channel and what goes through direct. He breaks down how creating a charter can help eliminate sales conflicts and ensure that every team is autonomous.
A Unifying Metric
With marketing, sales and customer success teams using different metrics to measure how well they turn leads into customers, Ed says there must a shift towards focusing more on “company leads” founded on figuring out target buyers and their needs so the company can determine whether it can provide effective solutions to the buyers.
He applies the 5 Whys in Trish Bertuzzi’s book The Sales Development Playbook to guide him in viewing things from a buyer’s perspective.
The Importance of Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity
He talks about his personal experience with the poor state of diversity in companies even with the strong research-based business case that proves diverse companies can win top talent and improve their customer orientation, employee satisfaction, and decision making.
Do Playbooks Work?
While playbooks may be the bread and butter for sales enablement teams, they should be about making sure that sales reps have everything that they need to execute flawlessly when they're talking to customers.
Resources
- Outreach.io
- The Sales Development Playbook By Trish Bertuzzi
- Coaching Salespeople into Sales Champions By Keith Rosen
Connect With Ed Porter
- Blue Chip CRO on LinkedIn
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
Ashley Zagst, Account Executive at Chili Piper, joins Ryan Woodward and Evan Patterson as she discusses women and queer people in sales.
Ashley’s Journey at Chili Piper
-She’s been at Chili Piper for one and half years now. She began as an SDR and has now been promoted several times to a closing position.
Proudest Accomplishments in her Sales Career
-She is the president of Proud Pipers, an employee resource group, which she began with the help of other employees in the organization.
Homophobia and Misogyny in the Workplace
-Sometimes, the customer is not always right, and they may go as far as being homophobic and also misogynistic. Ashley’s advice is to focus on what you can control, and you’ll win your day.
Retention Benefits to Attracting and Retaining Queer Talent
-For heads of companies to retain and attract talent in general, they should do what's going to help the human being who is coming to work for them. In the LGBTQIA community, the table stakes should be family planning and paternity leave benefits.
-Another benefit would be helping people deal with things that apply to the human race, not just one specific subsection of humans, and things that are not usually taught in school.
A most significant person in her Career
-Scott Haney from Chili Piper has been the most important person in her career in that he helped her get to the point where she was confident in the decisions she was making.
-He had her back, he was a good friend and a mentor, and he was generous with his time.
Resources
Connect with Ryan
Connect with Ashley
Connect with Evan
Jamie Neubeck trusted Team “Other Side of Sales", for the first time, to share publicly her journey through opioid addiction and onward into living in recovery. We are honored and humbled to have had Jamie trust us with this nuanced and oh-so important topic and hope you will find encouragement and inspiration from her deeply personal share. If you or anyone you know is struggling under the burdens of opioid or any other substance or activity addiction, please find some resourceful links at the end of our notes. THANK YOU, JAMIE!
Shruti Kapoor, the Founder and CEO of Wingman, talks about her experiences as an Indian woman in sales and the lessons she has learned throughout her illustrious career across different industries including building Wingman from the ground up.
Why She Went into Sales
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She realized early on that being good in sales is valuable in every career.
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Sales enables people to improve on their products because part of the sales cycle is about listening to customers and using feedback to solve a problem in the market rather than selling a product.
Killing it as a Woman in Sales
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She has never really focused on her gender. It’s always been about achieving goals. Learning how to handle rejection was also critical. But carving out her own space in sales was the main way she was able to succeed.
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Figuring out work-life balance (Which holds back a lot of women from thriving in sales) was a huge contributor to her success.
Advocating For Inclusivity in Sales
- Shruti feels more organizations should be intentional about supporting and motivating female salespeople in their teams.
Biggest Takeaway From Sales
- Don’t focus too much on your ability to speak. To be an effective problem solver, you have to master active listening.
The Good and the Bad of Being “Brown”
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She says it takes some time to get comfortable in your own skin. She’s had varied experiences working in the US as a brown-skinned person. She had to learn to lean into who she is.
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With people having such a low opinion of an Indian woman in sales, Shruti says there was no other way to go but up.
Having a Role Model
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15 years ago, when she worked at an investment bank, there was only one woman in the top leadership of the bank, and that was a great motivation for her.
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Kevin Dorsey has also been a huge inspiration.
Resources
- Wingman
Connect With Shruti
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
…………………………
Quotes
“If you are really willing to listen, you’ll actually find out so many more things that are going to be helpful in problem solving and that’s a large part of what we try to do in sales” - Shruti Kapoor
“You don’t have to be able to change everybody’s mind. You just have to find the people whose minds you want to change and whose minds you can change. When you’re making a sale you’re as much in charge of making that choice” - Shruti Kapoor
HIGHLIGHTS
- Sales development vs demand gen
- How to sunset the SDR role in increments
- Publish content on social rather than pushing unsolicited content
- Leverage your innate talents for even more success demand gen
- Nelson's routines and successes in his failures
- Book recommendations: Ayn Rand’s works and inspiring fiction and nonfic
QUOTES
Nelson: "Why don't we have demand gen and we have sales development? That's basically what's going on in most companies is that they will have two marketing strategies, two different, basically, marketing teams trying to generate and qualify leads for sales."
Nelson: "I really feel for SDRs who are running up against a brick wall because, again, they are kind of set up to fail, I think. I think the tactics that they're given, what they can do, the metrics, the goals, everything, it's so misaligned with how buyers want to be marketed to that it's going to be difficult."
Nelson: "Repurpose that talent to more productive use. They know your company, they've been doing really great work, and they're just capable of so much more, so don't underutilize them. So that is my message to SDR managers, leaders."`
Nelson: "I use demand gen as an umbrella term as the subdivision within marketing responsible for generating qualifying leads which can include community, it could partner marketing. It depends with every single company."
Nelson: "If you think about the B2B SaaS or software world, entrepreneurship and startups are all about trying to challenge status quo. And, in order to do that, you got to ruffle some feathers. You got to push back against the old ways of doing things. We have to rethink stuff."
Connect with Nelson by following the links below:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelson-gilliat-2b260574/
- Amazon book link: https://www.amazon.com/Death-SDR-Birth-Centric-Revenue-ebook/dp/B09GT562GL/
Follow The Other Side of Sales by checking out these links:
- Website: https://www.othersideofsales.com/
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/osos_pod
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/othersidesales/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/other-side-of-sales/
Brynne Tillman, the LinkedIn Whisperer and CEO of Social Sales Link, joins Ashleigh and Ryan to discuss social listening, authenticity, and leaving no connections left behind.
The Rolodex
-When Brynne found LinkedIn over a decade ago, she quickly recognized that it solved her biggest sales struggle, cold calling.
-LinkedIn is a dynamic Rolodex, giving you access to not just your network, but the networks of all your connections.
Social Listening
-Go by the “two under two” rule. Find two things in under two minutes that you can use to connect with a prospect.
-Before you reach out you need to understand who their clients are, the issues they face, and what’s happening in their industry.
Automation
-Ashleigh and Brynne are split on this topic. Brynne advocates for never using automation while Ashleigh advocates for light and strategic use of automation.
Content
-Good content talks to your buyer before they know they need you. You need to know what they are searching for two steps before you come into the process.
Authenticity
-The biggest problem in sales is that there is a dollar amount placed on a prospect prior to the first conversation. And, this is noticeable to the prospect.
-You need to enter the conversation aware that you have to earn the right and add value. Think about what you are worth to the prospect not what the prospect is worth to you.
Connect and Forget
-There is no point in building a Rolodex of people who don’t know who you are. Slow it down, connect personally, and start real conversations.
-Before you do anything, export your connections into an Excel spreadsheet and analyze it. Who are you connected with who you should be leveraging?
Resources
-The Little Black Book of Networking by Jeffrey Gitomer
-Gap Selling by Keenan
-The Challenger Sale by Brent Adamson and Matthew Dixon
-The Challenger Customer by Brent Adamson
-Endless Referrals by Bob Burg
Connect With Brynne
-Making Sales Social
-Social Sales Link
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
-Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Ashleigh and Sunanda are joined by Nirvanna Lildharrie, Senior Enterprise Account Executive at RippleMatch, to talk about in-person and virtual networking, leadership, and diversity in the workplace.
SHOW NOTES Sunanda and Nirvanna
-Nirvanna attended a Women in Sales Everywhere Everywhere event in Boston, excited to connect with other femme-identifying Account Executives, but there were hardly any.
-Frustrated, she went on LinkedIn and searched for Account Executives in the area, adding the women she came across, which is how Nirvanna and Sunada met.
Networking
-Whether it’s LinkedIn connections, in-person events, or Zoom calls, finding the networking strategy that works for you is important.
Her Sales Journey
-Nirvanna didn’t take the SDR track. She began as an Account Executive in the advertising industry before crossing over into sales.
-It wasn’t until she started in her second sales position that she developed a love for the profession.
-And working specifically in SaaS is when she began to contemplate and see herself one day taking on managerial roles.
Advocating for Yourself
-After being passed over for a promotion she felt qualified for, Nirvanna started to be more vocal about what she wanted out of her career.
-It’s never too early in the hiring process to tell your interviewers what you want. In her interview with her new company, Nirvanna was upfront about wanting to be on a leadership track.
Leadership and “The Broken Rung”
-Leadership roles aren’t for everyone. Think about what you want and what the best position is for your skillset, not what you’re supposed to do.
-Across all industries, there are not enough women in leadership roles. This can be attributed to the crucial moments at the beginning of a woman’s career as they are continually passed over for promotions, slowing the overall pace of their career.
Resources
-The Broken Rung
-Radical Candor by Kim Scott
-Selling Above and Below the Line by William Miller
Connect With Nirvanna
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Sunanda
Connect With OSoS
-Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
DeJuan Brown, Solution Specialist Director at Microsoft with over 20 years of sales experience, joins Ashleigh and Ryan to talk about career portfolios, authenticity, and self-awareness.
SHOW NOTES His Sales Journey
-Through a relationship he built while working in the service industry, DeJuan was drawn into sales.
-The first company he joined in a sales role he was at for 12 years before moving on to work in outside sales at Bloomberg. Since then, he has worked in a variety of roles in the sales industry at a wide range of companies.
Career Portfolio
-DeJuan emphasizes following your passion rather than money. Doing this allows you to stay open to conversations, relationships, and experiences.
-You can have success in sales by being regimented and following a linear path. But you can also find it by being creative and freeform. It’s about finding a company that supports you and a product you believe in.
Self-Awareness
-There are many types of sales, so there is no need to stay in a role where you are not finding success or happiness. You have to understand what is or isn’t working for you.
Resources
-Sales For The Culture
-Enneagram
Connect With DeJuan
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
-Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Ashleigh and Ryan talk to Jenny Anderson, Regional Director of Sales at DataRobot and founder of Maggie, about her Appalachian roots and hiring for those who can rather than those who have.
SHOW NOTES Her Sales Journey
-Jenny grew up in the hills of Tennessee surrounded by people who were barely scraping by.
-She left college a few months after starting and, for a short period, worked as a flight attendant before moving home and applying for factory positions through temp agencies.
-One agency mentioned that a flooring store was attempting to fill a sales position, so she interviewed and was hired.
-Representing this business at trade shows, she realized she loved sales, eventually began in car sales before pivoting to retail sales, and finally B2B sales.
MLMs
-The reason why MLMs succeed at recruiting people is that they advertise the benefits and community.
-So many people that have previously joined MLMs don’t believe sales is for them because they couldn’t succeed in the pyramid scheme. But the system is rigged against you.
-There are plenty of transferable skills from MLM work to B2B sales. You could be a great SDR.
Hiring
-To diversify sales teams, leaders need to focus on finding the people that can do the job instead of the people who have done the job.
-It is the leader’s job to find diverse candidates and bring sales jobs to underrepresented communities.
-We’re currently expecting people who are unaware of sales positions to come to us with resumes that display their transferable skills when they’ve only ever applied for blue-collar jobs.
-This means we’re eliminating tons of candidates who could make exceptional talent because we’re looking at a niche profile of candidates.
DEI Conversations
-A lot of DEI conversations address what happens when someone is already in the company but don’t address the hiring process.
-It’s important to talk about what your company is doing to create safe spaces for underrepresented communities.
Resources
-Hand to Mouth: Living in Bootstrap America by Linda Tirado
Connect With Jenny
-Maggie
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
-Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Cynthia Barnes, established sales influencer, author, keynote speaker, and champion for women in sales, talks with Ryan and Sue about getting others to the 1%, embracing failure, and diversity in sales.
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Ashleigh’s coworker at Duckbill Group, Tim Banks, talks to Ashleigh and Sunanda about the sales engineering world, burnout, and being a person of color in tech.
SHOW NOTES His Sales Journey
-Tim is a systems engineer by trade but got his start in sales while at a company called Object Rocket. At this company, he started to join sales calls where he both answered technical questions and gathered insight that helped build the product.
Burnout
-There is far too much focus on numbers in the operations and sales worlds. This hyper-fixation of numbers is why so many people leave these industries. Tim left to become a chef for some time.
Being Coin-Operated
-It is okay to be motivated by money. Do not allow companies to take advantage of you. You should be compensated for your work.
Being a Person of Color in Tech
-When Tim first began in tech everyone was preparing for Y2K. Being Black in the 90s tech world meant you could identify with few people. So, Tim learned to codeswitch.
Connect With Tim
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Sunanda
Connect With OSoS
-Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Jackson Lieu, host of the 1UP Sales Development podcast, joins Ashleigh and Sue to talk about how he fell into sales, why people don’t buy from you, and what it’s like to be Asian in the sales space.
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Mercy Bell, Executive Producer of the global wellness event Sober Voices, joins Ashleigh and Ryan to talk about turning trauma into your superpower, saving time for yourself, and how to find the right mentor.
SHOW NOTES Early Trauma
-Trauma experienced early on in life can be harnessed and transformed into a superpower. Mercy developed hypervigilance during her childhood and is now able to use that to observe to bring success.
Duality
-The ability to work hard must be balanced with the ability to slow down. You have to know how to manage your time and resources.
Her Sales Journey
-Mercy started her sales career at 17 when she arrived at Stanford and began working in the call center.
-Though the no’s she received bothered her slightly, she enjoyed fostering meaningful conversations with the few alumni that cared.
Mentors
-The prospecting that is applied to sales can be applied to finding a mentor. You always need people inside and outside of your industry who will support and understand you.
Resources
-SAMHSA
-Mental Health and Substance Abuse
Connect With Mercy
-Website
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
-Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Roderick Jefferson, VP of Global Enablement at Netskope and author of Sales Enablement 3.0, joins Ashleigh and Ryan to discuss networking, leadership, and being an ally on the corporate and individual level.
SHOW NOTES Sales Enablement
-Roderick started his career as a BDR and quickly got promoted to an AE. But, he realized he loved the process of selling, not the quota that hung over his head. So, he moved into sales training.
Networking
-Networking is about the other person. It has nothing to do with telling them about yourself or pushing your product, service, or solution.
-Stop selling and start helping. You want to find mutually equitable relationships.
Old Tactics
-The old sales tactics (think Glengarry Glenross) persist because old school salespeople refuse to mature their strategy.
-Embrace that the world changed and selling has never been more personal.
Video
-Many salespeople fear utilizing video because they can’t sell their product or platform. What they’re selling those videos is their personality.
-It takes time to become comfortable. However, once you do become comfortable, it’s a powerful tool.
Sharing
-You’re invaluable because of what you share. Sharing is how you build your trust, credibility, and brand. But, you can’t expect anything in return.
Leaders vs. Managers
-If your markers of success are awards and numbers, you’re a manager. True leaders don’t care about awards. They care about their people.
New BDRs and SDRs
-Use a guided learning path with new BDRs and SDRs. They had a syllabus and plan for each semester and year. Use that to your advantage instead of trying to retrain them.
-Don’t expect them to know everything. Expect them to be positive and open to learning new things.
Being an Ally - Corporate
-Think about the diversity of your hiring managers, the impression your website is making, inclusive mentorships, anti-racism education, community collaboration, marketing practices, entrepreneurial investments, among many other things.
Being an Ally - Individual
-Think about owning your biases, speaking up against racism, holding your elected officials responsible, advocating for change with actions, financially supporting organizations that create change, voting, and preparing the next generation to carry the torch.
Resources
-Sales Enablement 3.0 by Roderick Jefferson
-Anti-Racism Resources
Connect With Roderick
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
-Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
SDR Manager at Gong.io and Co-Founder of the Women in Sales Club, Gabrielle Blackwell, joins Ashleigh and Ryan to talk about building relationships as an SDR and managing your team of SDRs.
SHOW NOTES
Getting to know Gabi (and Ashleigh and Ryan)
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Lou Malnati's is the best deep-dish pizza. Period.
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Different experiences with different sibling order! Chuck E. Cheese = no. Matching outfits = no? Coordinating outfits = yes.
-
Embrace kids’ interests to get them to gravitate to what you like. Don't force it, let them come to you!
Sales Styles
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If you're struggling in sales - maybe you're in the wrong type of sale!
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Try different products, cycles, styles and eventually you'll find a fit and it's magical.
Resilience in sales
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Everyone will struggle with different aspects of sales
-
Sales professionals need to be able to speak up, share their experiences (ie call out microagressions)
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Gabrielle is proof - you can come through incredibly toxic situations and call out illegal behavior, your career IS NOT OVER.
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"When do I get to stop 'bouncing back?". Fatigue is real and the effects are lasting
-
Receptive leadership makes a significant difference.
-
Leadership must be a partner in the process, not "tell me what you want" which puts the burden on the under-represented and leads to unhealthy dynamics.
Selling on Linkedin
-
Don't have an alternate agenda - make intentions clear to build trust.
-
SDRs get distracted by desired outcome and fail to demonstrate GENUINE CURIOSITY.
-
You become interesting, by being interested.
-
Do some research, allow the other person to correct if needed.
-Think long term - even if there isn't a meeting or deal right now your curiosity can build pipe for next quarter!
Pipeline management
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Consistency is key. Monthly numbers are hard because it incentivizes shorter-term thinking
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Ashleigh: 3rd week of the month is most stressful because that's when month is won/lost. Week 4 is all about setting up next month so you can start with 20-30% of your number on the books.
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Plan for the worst, hope for best - be conservative!
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You own your numbers - not your leadership.
Different kinds of performers
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High activity - Lower conversion. Tons of data, cannot be allowed to be "activity for activity's sake"
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Lower activity - high conversion. Typically more senior...hard to spot trends because of lower volume.
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Both are valid - both need to be managed differently.
Resources
- Never Hire a Bad Salesperson Again by Christopher Croner and Richard Abraham
Connect With Gabrielle
Connect With Ashleigh
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Instagram
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LinkedIn
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Twitter
Connect With Ryan
Connect With OSoS
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Instagram
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LinkedIn
-
Twitter
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
SDR Manager at Gong.io and Co-Founder of the Women in Sales Club, Gabrielle Blackwell, joins Ashleigh and Ryan to talk about building relationships as an SDR and managing your team of SDRs.
SHOW NOTES
Getting to know Gabi (and Ashleigh and Ryan)
-
Lou Malnati's is the best deep-dish pizza. Period.
-
Different experiences with different sibling order! Chuck E. Cheese = no. Matching outfits = no? Coordinating outfits = yes.
-
Embrace kids’ interests to get them to gravitate to what you like. Don't force it, let them come to you!
Sales Styles
-
If you're struggling in sales - maybe you're in the wrong type of sale!
-
Try different products, cycles, styles and eventually you'll find a fit and it's magical.
Resilience in sales
-
Everyone will struggle with different aspects of sales
-
Sales professionals need to be able to speak up, share their experiences (ie call out microagressions)
-
Gabrielle is proof - you can come through incredibly toxic situations and call out illegal behavior, your career IS NOT OVER.
-
"When do I get to stop 'bouncing back?". Fatigue is real and the effects are lasting
-
Receptive leadership makes a significant difference.
-
Leadership must be a partner in the process, not "tell me what you want" which puts the burden on the under-represented and leads to unhealthy dynamics.
Selling on Linkedin
-
Don't have an alternate agenda - make intentions clear to build trust.
-
SDRs get distracted by desired outcome and fail to demonstrate GENUINE CURIOSITY.
-
You become interesting, by being interested.
-
Do some research, allow the other person to correct if needed.
-Think long term - even if there isn't a meeting or deal right now your curiosity can build pipe for next quarter!
Pipeline management
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Consistency is key. Monthly numbers are hard because it incentivizes shorter-term thinking
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Ashleigh: 3rd week of the month is most stressful because that's when month is won/lost. Week 4 is all about setting up next month so you can start with 20-30% of your number on the books.
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Plan for the worst, hope for best - be conservative!
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You own your numbers - not your leadership.
Different kinds of performers
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High activity - Lower conversion. Tons of data, cannot be allowed to be "activity for activity's sake"
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Lower activity - high conversion. Typically more senior...hard to spot trends because of lower volume.
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Both are valid - both need to be managed differently.
Resources
- Never Hire a Bad Salesperson Again by Christopher Croner and Richard Abraham
Connect With Gabrielle
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Ashleigh and Ryan welcome Ryann Dowdy, sales expert and Co-Founder of Social Sellers Academy, to discuss everything from pre-judging prospects to being a parent in sales.
SHOW NOTES Her Sales Journey
-Ryann, like many others, landed in sales by accident. Her first job after graduating from college was in radio advertising.
-From there, she moved to the digital marketing space and eventually became the Sales Director of a digital marketing startup based in Kansas City.
-However, about four months into this role, she realized it wasn’t what she wanted. But she had no idea what her next opportunity would be.
-It wasn’t until she started networking that she learned about entrepreneurship and made the switch to teaching sales to female entrepreneurs before founding Social Sellers Academy.
Doors Sales Opened
-Sales opened many doors professionally, monetarily, and personally for Ryann. Not only did she have the opportunity to travel, but she became comfortable speaking about money and taking control over how much she makes. As well as enjoys making conversation with strangers.
Pre-Judging Prospects and Discounts
-One of the blocks Ryann had to work through is pre-judging prospects and prices they’re willing to pay based on certain biases.
-Many businesses undercut their value by believing the customer is always searching for the cheapest option. Discounts are not a necessity.
Training Someone Else
-A lot of business owners feel that nobody can sell the way they can. And, it’s true. A new salesperson will not be as good in the beginning.
-The goal is to play the long game. Invest the time to hire and train someone now because it’ll help to grow your future business.
Parenting and Sales
-There are many benefits to entering sales as a parent. As long as you perform, sales creates a lot of flexibility time-wise for parents. And there is ample opportunity for rapid growth. Sales allows you to make more money at a faster rate than most industries.
Finding the Right Product
-Sometimes it’s not how you’re selling, but what you’re selling. Finding a product that you’re passionate about is the most important building block to a successful sales career.
Connect With Ryann
-ryanndowdy.com
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-Twitter
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A leading expert on sales performance, Joe Paranteau, joins Ashleigh and Ryan to talk about his cultural identity and time in the military and how both have helped throughout his journey in sales.
SHOW NOTES
His Sales Journey
-Joe grew up without much, and one of his first memories is selling rocks as paperweights door-to-door.
-Throughout high school and college, he found himself in various sales roles. And, after college, he decided to make it his career.
Terminology
-Although the use of the terms Native American or American Indian is frequent, Indigenous is a term that works well globally, so Joe recommends it most often.
Cultural Identity and Sales
-People don’t look at Joe and see his cultural roots. They look at him and instantly think he’s white and suburban. It wasn’t until the last ten years that he felt comfortable enough to share his heritage in the workplace.
-But, there are many aspects of his culture that helped in his various sales roles. One of the most prominent examples is the circular reference to time in most indigenous cultures. So, he never thought of the sales process as linear and was able to build stronger relationships. He never stopped selling.
Building Rapport
-Although quotas can be intimidating and anxiety-inducing, it’s best not to focus on them. Shifting your focus instead to the customer and the problem you’re solving will help you build stronger relationships and hit your quota.
Tenacity
-Tenacity is something Joe learned early on. Because he comes from a poor background, opportunity wasn’t abundant, and he had to make it for himself.
-If people doubt you, use it as motivation to propel you forward.
Being a Veteran
-Many commercial companies don’t understand veterans and the skills that are gained through serving.
-The military starts everyone from the same place, assuming nobody is confident nor competent. Corporate America could take this note. It spends too much time assuming people know things or are capable of things because of points on a resume.
-Not to mention, veterans are reliable in high-stress situations and culturally aware.
Resources
-Billion Dollar Sales Secrets by Joe Paranteau
-Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
-‘Horrible History’: Mass Grave of Indigenous Children Reported in Canada on the NY Times
Connect With Joe
-jparanteau.com
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-Twitter
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Ashleigh and Ryan talk to Natalie Klun, a sales pro of 20 years, author of Taking the Sell Out of Sales, and creator of Be Magnetic Online.
Show Notes
Sales Journey
-Natalie fell into sales when she started selling real estate investment funds in her early 20s.
-After this, she transitioned into real estate and founded a property management company.
-She didn’t fully grasp sales until she went to prospecting training, and the coach pulled her aside and told her that sales is about helping people.
Prospecting
-Sending mass emails pushes the notion that you are only interested in serving your agenda. For someone to be interested in you, you have to be interested in them.
-From a biological standpoint, our brains are wired to accept what is familiar and reject what isn’t. Build rapport and demonstrate how you can help them.
Building Rapport
-Formulating better messages comes down to truly understanding the problem your prospect has. It’s often as simple as being curious and asking questions. They need to feel that you care.
-Practice with anyone and everyone that will listen to you. The more comfortable you are talking through your points, the less nervous and rehearsed you will sound.
-Mirror your prospect’s energy.
Supportive Environments
-In Natalie’s first sales role, she had a highly competitive manager. So, when she left, creating a supportive environment was a priority.
-Leaders are only as strong as their team. Give your team everything they need to win and succeed.
Resources
-The Power of Intention by Wayne Dyer
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-Twitter
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Show Notes
Stance on Sleep
While Ollie has difficulty sleeping and sees it as a chore because he works with people in different time zones, Ryan sees sleep as an investment.
Why Ryan Invests in Sleep
-With a great night’s sleep, Ryan feels physically and mentally healthier. His back doesn’t ache and his memory recall is improved, among many other things.
Snoring
-While Ryan used to be a snorer, there are a few changes he made that have helped: consistent exercise, losing weight, and sleeping with his head slightly raised.
Winding Down
-Try to respect the time you need to wind down and not reach for electronics. Blue light affects the quality of your sleep.
Waking Up
-It’s equally as important to think about how you wake up because that can have a profound impact on your day.
Connect With Ollie
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Ashleigh and Kasey talk with Kris Holmes, Founder of Reframing Joy and Opportunity Creator at Proof Point Marketing, about alternative pronouns, being a parent, and how to support non-binary folx.
SHOW NOTES Their Sales Journey
-After a difficult divorce left them as a single parent, they began to work in construction part-time to support their family.
-Connections in construction led them to sales. They’ve now been in sales for 5 years.
Being a Parent
-Kris had to quickly learn who they were outside of a long, toxic relationship and how to be a parent at the same time.
-But, as they developed their parenting skills, they became more confident overall. And, they brought that newfound confidence to their sales career.
Pronouns
-Throughout their journey, they’ve grown more comfortable presenting themselves however they wish.
-Their first girlfriend introduced Kris to the world of non-traditional pronouns, and they began to identify as non-binary (they/them).
-They’ve found small ways to integrate this identity into the workplace. One instance is changing their name on Zoom to include their pronouns. And, if they ever are misgendered in a safe working relationship, they will correct the person.
Supporting Non-Binary Folx
-Part of supporting is practicing owning a mistake. It’s okay, and it will happen. Lean into the awkward conversations.
Being Your Full Self
-They waited a long time to feel comfortable being fully themselves, and they’d like to see people do that sooner. First, by parents raising their children to be confident in who they are. Second, by others not being assholes and treating people like human beings.
-You don’t have to understand a decision to respect someone.
Allies
-It’s essential to find an ally in your organization. You can leverage them to help you find a safe working environment.
-Finding allies is about the micro-moments that compound to build trust.
Resources
-The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon
Connect With Kris
-Reframing Joy
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Rob Napoli, Founder of Rise Up Coaching and Co-Founder of the HapDay Group, joins Ashleigh and Sue. They break down his sales journey, experience in working abroad, and international stereotypes.
Show Notes His Sales Journey
x-Rob attended a small college in Iowa, played Division III football, and majored in Athletic Training until he watched Mad Men in an Intro to Marketing class, and his trajectory pivoted to business.
-After graduation, his first job was in recruitment, and he was there until his then-girlfriend, now wife decided she wanted to move to Europe. He moved with her to Milan, Italy, and began studying for his Master’s in International Multichannel Marketing.
-While studying, he coached professional American football, and through this was connected with a startup creating wearable sports devices and joined the team to help them scale.
-U.S. expansion wasn’t in the cards for the company, so he left and went to one of the largest global corporate recruiting firms, but realized this wasn’t for him and joined a smaller firm until his boss let him go, telling him to start his own business. That’s why he started HapDay Group and RiseUp Coaching.
International Business
-The global community provides a lot of opportunity for growth, but many organizations are afraid to work across borders. It’s a fear of the unknown and uncertainty.
-Venturing abroad means you have to trust your product and have a plan if things go wrong.
Stereotypes
-Sue works in the U.S. market from India. And, because of this, people assume many things about her. Trust is something she has to earn and prove she’s worthy of over and over again.
-Americans have to prove they’re not boisterous, arrogant assholes all the time.
Resources
-The Go-Giver by Bob Burg and Jon David Mann
-Spin Selling by Neil Rackham
Connect With Rob
-Rise Up Coaching
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SHOW NOTES
How Did He Start?
-One moment that stands out is February of 2020 when he attended a conference. One of the speakers was Sara Blakely, Founder of Spanx.
-Sara mentioned her “why” was to elevate women. Francisco had just read Start With Why by Simon Sinek. So, he began thinking about what his why is.
How To Create One?
-It may be beneficial for you to start with a stream of consciousness or large ideas and narrow them down. This process is iterative.
-It’s important to separate personal and professional statements because you are not your job.
-If you run into writer’s block, try to find three overarching themes as guiding points. The writing will flow from there.
How To Separate Personal From Professional?
-Your professional should have something to do with the product you sell. And, should change as you change jobs.
Resources
-Start With Why by Simon Sinek
Connect With Ashleigh
Connect With Francisco
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Senior BDR at Reprise and Social Selling Coach at SDR Nation, Evan Patterson, talks to Ashleigh and Sue about his journey into sales, how to socially sell, and why you should incorporate it in your strategy.
SHOW NOTES His Sales Journey
-Evan’s first job was in high school as a freelance content writer for businesses operating within Second Life.
-However, he needed a more steady income to supplement the writing. So, he started working in a restaurant. While here, someone approached him about a job selling furniture, which he accepted.
-One of his regular retail customers noticed that this job wasn’t fulfilling him. She worked as an insurance agent and offered to help him get involved in that world.
-He worked in insurance for a couple of years before taking everything he learned in B2C and moving to the B2B sales world.
Social Selling Strategy
-Understanding that people like to talk about themselves, he tries to find a way for them to do so through which he can bring in Reprise. And, he approaches them in the way a friend or family member would.
-He also has to make this strategy scalable. So, he looks at the people his ICP follows and admires. Diving into each of their posts’ comments and reactions, he creates campaigns tailored to each post and talks to people he feels he can help.
How He Got Started
-In his first professional sales role after retail, he was given a phonebook, bottle of vodka, red solo cup, and box of tissues. He stayed for a couple of weeks but realized this pace of selling was too slow.
-He explored other options like email marketing but wanted to step it up further. Thinking about how he could do so, he thought about building himself something like a fanbase, creating his referral program and Facebook pages, and sponsoring local events.
-When he made the switch to B2B sales, he thought this same mentality might work.
Is Social Selling Necessary?
-There’s more than one way to get a job done. Social selling is not a necessity, but if you can and want to, you should.
-There are also other factors at play as to whether it would be a good idea to try. The ICP you have and the nature of your product also tie in.
Making Social Selling a Part of Your Strategy
-If your company has a process in place, try to integrate social selling with it and track the meetings it brings in.
-Start with finding the brands and people your ICP loves. Look at the posts they’re interacting with, and tie that in with how your product can solve a problem they face.
Resources
-The Sales Development Playbook by Trish Bertuzzi
-The Sales Acceleration Formula by Mark Roberge
-The Guy Who Decides Packaging
-Supporting Your LGBTQ+ Employees
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Daisy Chung, Account Executive at Orum, joins Ashleigh and Sue to talk about how she fell into sales, what it’s like being an Asian woman in the profession, and how she’s better at her job because of her background.
SHOW NOTES Her Sales Journey
-Like most salespeople, Daisy fell into the profession. After graduating from college, she began looking for roles in HR.
-Daisy did well as an SDR in San Francisco, so they moved her to a team lead position in New York. In New York, she moved into management and then moved to LA for an Account Executive role.
-Her manager then joined Orum, and she followed. She’s now an Account Executive there.
Being an Asian Woman in Sales
-It can be lonely. Daisy’s been in the profession for years now and has only encountered three other Asian women in sales.
-However, this can be an advantage. Because there aren’t many people who look like her, she’s much more memorable when selling or pitching a product.
Open Doors
-Race, sex, age, or religious discrimination comes in when trying to enter the sales industry without any experience or competing for a management position.
-However, you can’t dispute results and numbers. And, this gives an advantage when interviewing at other companies.
Going Against Culture Norms
-Asian culture promotes listening and teaches to be humble and follow the rules. But, in SaaS or tech sales, it’s essential to talk about yourself to be noticed for a promotion. Great work often gets done behind the scenes, and it goes unnoticed unless it gets vocalized to management.
-Many Asian cultures also value prestige, pushing professions like engineering or medicine to the forefront.
How Her Background Makes Her Better
-A lot was expected of Daisy, being raised by a “tiger mom.” And, this instilled a drive in her to achieve.
-There was also an emphasis placed on education. Because many Asian immigrant parents had education taken away from them, they know the importance of it. And, though she now has the freedom to choose how she spends her time, she knows the importance of continuing to learn and grow.
Unlearning
-There were also many things she had to unlearn. One of them being the concept of comparison. A big part of Asian culture is comparing yourself to others. However, this adds a lot of unneeded stress and takes away from your self-worth.
-Instead, Daisy focuses on competing with herself, making sure she’s the best salesperson she can be.
Outreach to Underrepresented Communities
-When it comes to getting more underrepresented communities involved in sales, highlighting people from those groups that have found success is extremely important.
-University recruiters also play a role. Going into communities of underrepresented groups and educating on what sales is could open many doors.
Resources
-Anti-racism resources to support Asian American, Pacific Islander community
-Rise of Anti-Asian Hate Crimes
-Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
Connect With Daisy
-YouTube
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Jared Robin, Co-Founder of RevGenius, a sales community with over 12,000 active members, joins Ashleigh and Ollie to talk about how his sales and mental health journies overlap and how he made it out from rock bottom.
SHOW NOTES His Sales Journey
-After leaving school, Jared realized he wanted to be in a customer-facing role. So, he started his first sales position.
-However, he left after only three months. On a surface level, because he hated cold-calling. And, on a deeper level, because he wasn’t getting the validation he needed.
-He joined FedEx and ascended the company ladder but didn’t feel challenged. So, he left to join the startup world.
Rock Bottom
-Making the transition from FedEx to SaaS was difficult on many levels. He didn’t believe in the product he had to sell. He had taken a pay cut to pursue this. And, he was in a relationship that wasn’t working.
-While he was able to shrug these doubts and anxieties off for a while, they still surfaced. And, he began waking up at 2:30 in the morning with his heart racing.
-This was something he couldn’t ignore. With the help of his dad, he started therapy and was introduced to the book The Presence Process by Michael Brown.
-Though his therapist was phenomenal, he ultimately realized there was nothing she or anyone else could do to solve his problem. He had to embark on a solo journey.
Common Self-Care Mistakes
-Jared emphasizes the difference between motion and movement. Motion is the surface-level mental or physical activity that people do to try and solve problems. While movement requires diving deep emotionally, attempting to understand reactions that have been there for years.
Managing Triggers
-Managing triggers is about integrating fears and acknowledging your perceptions of the world. Attempt to understand the way you react to events and how they make you feel.
His Journey and RevGenius
-The values of giving and community had always been prevalent in his life, and empathy was lacking in sales. So, he combines these in RevGenius, creating a space where people can go when work or the world isn’t treating them well.
Resources
-The Presence Process by Michael Brown
-Gap Selling by Keenan
-Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
-NAMI
-MHA
-ADAA
-SAMHSA
-Suicide Prevention Lifeline
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Ashleigh and Francisco dive into how having an attitude of gratitude impacts your life, transforming your relationships with the people around you for the better.
Show Notes Gratitude’s Impact on the Brain / 00:01:55
-Expressing gratitude activates the ventral and dorsal medial prefrontal cortex. The part of the brain that produces dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin - or the “happy hormones.”
-One thing to note: expressing gratitude consistently is the only way to see real benefits.
Changing Patterns / 00:04:10
-In an experiment, participants counted the people wearing blue suits in a video. A third of the test group focused so much on counting that they missed the person in a gorilla suit.
-When the brain focuses on negatives, objections, or blockers, it misses opportunities to expand and move forward. Practicing gratitude changes how the brain recognizes patterns, forming a more positive and optimistic outlook.
Francisco’s Positivity / 00:07:05
-Francisco was born with a physical disability, so he’s in a wheelchair. He remembers how difficult his first semester was as he transitioned from Puerto Rico to Rhode Island.
-However, at Thanksgiving that semester, he reflected on the amazing friends he’d made that made him feel that he could be himself. And, he thought about how he could best express his gratitude, writing each a note.
-It became a habit during each major holiday to write a note of gratitude to the people in his life. And, at work, he sets aside an hour each week to write to the team members that helped him.
Francisco’s Guide to a Gratitude Note / 00:12:46
-First and foremost, make it personal. Don’t send the same note to everyone.
-Talk about a moment you shared, whether it was big or small, and how it impacted you. Be specific.
-And, find a way to make that person feel like a hero.
Homework Assignment / 00:21:18
-Share something, either personally or publicly, to express gratitude to someone.
Resources
-JB Sales On Demand - Ashleigh’s Persona Masterclass
-The Happiness Advantage by Sean Achor
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Chief Prospecting Officer of Blissful Prospecting, Jason Bay, joins Ashleigh and co-host Ollie to discuss his success in door-to-door sales, feeling pride in his ethnicity, and how leaders can better support people of color on their teams.
SHOW NOTES
His Sales Journey
-Jason was studying to be a Forensic Scientist when his friend came into one of his classes to talk about a company, College Works Painting, that hires college students and teaches them how to run a house painting business.
-Much of this teaching was marketing and sales. Particularly door-to-door sales. And, he did well despite being introverted and coming from a culture that emphasizes blending in and isn’t well-represented in sales.
-This decision to pursue sales as a career was instant because doing well gave him the approval and validation he craved throughout his life. Once he received this approval, it didn’t matter to him that no one else looked like him.
Embracing Being Asian
-He’s accustomed to justifying racism and microaggressions in the people around him, so it’s only recently, thanks to the help of his wife, that he fully embraced his Asian heritage.
-And, though his mom was doing her best in a conservative Oregon town, her advice to ignore it only reinforced that this behavior was normal.
The Absence of Asian Role Models in Sales
-The first time he felt he could truly identify with someone was when he met his wife and watched how she fully embraced her Korean roots.
-This absence of role models in his career path made him doubtful of what he could achieve. Not to mention the pressure to be a “model Asian.”
Is Being Asian a Help or Hindrance?
-Jason sees being Asian in sales as a hindrance to his mental health but great for his career because people aren’t intimidated by him.
Supporting Your Asian Employees
-Empathize, validate, and offer. Let them know you recognize their experience is different, and you support them.
-If you can’t hire for diversity, take a look at who you can bring in to speak and provide a different perspective.
Resources
-Anti-racism resources to support Asian American, Pacific Islander community
-Rise of Anti-Asian Hate Crimes
-Compound Effect by Darren Hardy
-The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck by Mark Manson
Connect With Jason
-Blissful Prospecting
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Ashleigh and co-host Ryan Woodard interview Michelle Beauchamp, CEO of The Champ Group, about what it is that keeps her in sales, creating significance, and supporting your team.
Show Notes
Her Sales Journey
-Like almost every other person in sales, Michelle accidentally fell into the profession. She started in marketing, promoting Coors on her college campus.
-After college, she worked in a sales support role in the telecommunications field and, as she moved up the ranks, began helping the company’s offices develop their sales teams. Through this, she discovered how much she enjoys helping people and developing relationships with prospects.
Why Sales?
-Sales allows her to learn about different industries and people while solving problems and taking charge of her income. All of which energizes her.
Forming a Sales Approach
-A good sales approach starts with the right mindset. You have to understand your purpose and commit to understanding others’ purposes by being curious and listening.
Creating Significance
-Sales is about creating success, or significance, for the buyer. Because if you help enough people get what they want, you’ll get what you want.
Discussing the Chauvin Verdict
-Michelle is a big believer in speaking about this news in the workplace.
-Though it might be uncomfortable, as a leader, you must pay attention to the well-being of your employees. Ask open-ended questions and see what you can do to help.
Supporting Yourself and Others
-Think about one person you can turn to and trust in your organization. A person who’s been an ally to you or to whom you’ve been an ally. Tell them what’s bothering you, ask for help, don’t suffer in silence.
-And, if you can’t think of one person, it’s time to start looking for a new organization.
Resources
-Simon Sinek: How great leaders inspire action
-Zig Zigler
-Sales for the Culture
-Leader Shift by John Maxwell
-Win the Day by Mark Batterson
-If You Want to Walk on Water, You’ve Got to Get Out of the Boat by John Ortberg
Connect With Michelle
-michelle@thechampgroup.com
-The Champ Group
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Marcus Chan, Founder of Venli Consulting Group, joins Ashleigh and Sue to discuss being an Asian man in sales, why there aren’t many Asian people in leadership roles, and how to advocate for yourself.
SHOW NOTES
His Experience in Sales
-Many Asian parents expect their children to work in a prestigious field. So, when he decided to work in sales, they weren’t happy.
-When he began, he was the only person of color on his team and within the region. Being different, he felt pressure to overdeliver, but he struggled at the beginning of his career.
-He decided that because there were so few people that looked like him, he would try to be the best to be a good representation for his demographic.
Asians in Leadership Roles
-It’s still common to see Asian people break into leadership roles in sales. One of the primary reasons is that many Asian people don’t view sales as a viable career path.
-In many Asian cultures, children are taught to listen and follow directions, and these aren’t traits that typically lead to promotions. So, while there are great Asian sales professionals, few are seen because of the necessity of self-promotion to move upwards.
Hiring Introverts or Extroverts
-Top-performing sales professionals have excellent listening skills. They can focus on the customer, ask deep questions, and gain trust. Both introverts and extroverts can do this, but it’s most often introverts who have this trait.
-Possessing excellent listening skills is also rooted in culture. Both Marcus and Sue come from cultures that emphasize listening over speaking.
Advocating for Yourself
-To avoid coming across as if you are bragging, think of the skills you developed throughout the process to get a great result and how you can share those to help other people. Because when you help other people, it highlights that you know what you’re talking about and builds your brand.
Being Different and Making Friends
-Marcus naturally wants to make other people happy, so developing relationships with co-workers has never been a scary task. Plus, having a community in sales is important because it can be very lonely.
Resources
-Anti-racism resources to support Asian American, Pacific Islander community
-Rise of Anti-Asian Hate Crimes
-Career Warfare by David D’Alessandro
-The Psychology of Selling by Brian Tracy
Connect With Marcus
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Francisco Oller Garcia, a Customer Advocate at Drift, joins the team as one of our newest co-hosts. He and Ashleigh discuss his physical disability and how his positivity and honesty have propelled his career forward.
SHOW NOTES His Sales Journey
-He graduated with an MBA in 2018 and went to work in marketing. As a marketer, you need to wear many hats, one of the most important is business development.
-He now works as a Customer Advocate at Drift but realizes every person is in sales no matter what they do.
Getting Connected With OSoS
-Ashleigh and Francisco met through Kasey last year while he was in the process of determining his next career move.
Feeling Like an “Other” In Sales / 00:05:17
-Francisco has felt like an “other” throughout his life because of his physical disability. In a pre-pandemic world, he rolled into conferences and received stares.
-He’s always chosen to use humor, vulnerability, and honesty to address that elephant in the room and make deeper connections.
-In a post-pandemic world, he doesn’t have to reveal he’s in a wheelchair. He chooses to because it’s an integral part of his identity.
What Is He Most Proud Of?
-As a Latino man with a physical disability and not much SaaS or B2B experience, he’s proud he made it into his dream company, Drift.
The First Thing He’ll Do When “Normality” Resumes?
-Francisco’s heading back to Puerto Rico to see his family.
Connect With Francisco
Let’s Connect!
-Twitter
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Get to know Ollie Whitfield, one of our newest co-hosts. He currently works in product marketing for VanillaSoft and talks to Ashleigh about how his age has made him feel like an outsider in the sales world and why he said yes to this opportunity.
SHOW NOTES His Sales Journey
-Ollie was never a sales rep, and at one point said that he never wanted to be in sales.
-His journey starts when he worked in marketing for CreationAgency and ended up connecting with a lot of people in sales. Being around people in sales, he began to try it as a side hustle, winning his company more clients.
-He now does product marketing for VanillaSoft.
Feeling Like an “Other” in Sales
-Age is a factor that often sets Ollie apart from his teammates. Having never attended college, he entered the workforce earlier than most. He often hears that older executives don’t have anything to learn from lower-level, younger employees.
What Is He Most Proud Of?
-Ollie and his team produced a webinar for John Barrows, and they got a record number of webinar signups.
Why Did He Join OSoS?
-It’s an opportunity to gain more experience in the podcasting world. And, he’s excited to shed light on other people in sales who deserve it.
The First Thing He’ll Do When “Normality” Resumes?
-You’ll find Ollie playing pool.
Connect With Ollie
Let’s Connect!
-Twitter
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If you’ve been with us for a while, you’ll recognize Sunanda. She was one of our first interviews, and now she’s back as a co-host. Catch up with her as she talks about what she’s been up to since her last interview.
SHOW NOTES Her Sales Journey
-After deciding to leave NGOs, Sunanda interviewed with a company for a marketing position. She was offered a role in sales instead and accepted. For the last couple of years, she’s been doing sales coaching and enterprise sales.
Feeling Like an “Other” In Sales
-Sunanda remembers attending a large company event and being the only woman, person of color, and openly queer person in the room.
What Is She Most Proud Of?
-She’s proud of the supportive environment she offers, the group of people she surrounds herself with, and the fact that she stayed with it.
The First Thing He’ll Do When “Normality” Resumes?
-Sunanda wants to go to a diner and eat a big greasy breakfast.
Connect With Sunanda
Let’s Connect!
-Twitter
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Get to know more about Ryan Woodard, BDR Manager at Edify, as he and Ashleigh discuss his passion for electronics, his networking group Sales for the Culture, and how he’s felt like an outsider.
SHOW NOTES His Sales Journey
-Ryan was able to transform his passion for tech into a sales career, first selling electronics, appliances, and furniture then moving to industrial equipment.
-He’s now back in the world of electronics working as the BDR Manager for the fast-paced startup, Edify.
Getting Connected With OSoS
-As one of the co-founders of Sales for the Culture, a networking group for Black sales pros, we asked him to come on the show initially as a guest. We loved him so much we made him a co-host!
Feeling Like an “Other” In Sales
-Ryan remembers being at a dinner for a sales kickoff and feeling pressured by colleagues to vote a certain way in the 2016 election because of the industry they were in. It wasn’t appropriate, and being one of the only people of color at the table, he felt like an outsider.
The First Thing He’ll Do When “Normality” Resumes?
-Ryan’s heading to the beach, preferably out of the country, with his fiancé.
Connect With Ryan
Let’s Connect!
-Twitter
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Currently working out of Hyderabad, India, Sue Singh is one of our newest co-hosts with over 15 years of experience in sales. Get to know a little bit more about her sales journey, how she’s felt like an “other” in sales, and what she’s most proud of.
SHOW NOTES Her Sales Journey
-Sue accidentally fell into sales in 2004 after her father fell sick, and instead of pursuing an MBA, she decided to stay home with him and look for a job. After interviewing for what she thought was a customer service position, she ended up in a sales role.
-With the help of some great managers, she fell in love with sales and has now been in the industry for 15 years, working mainly in the U.S. market from her home in India.
Getting Connected to OSoS
-Ashleigh and Sue were connected through the social media post of a mutual friend.
Feeling Like an “Other” in Sales
-Always. She’s not only a woman but an introvert, and she began her sales career early. When she first started, she was the youngest person on her team.
What Is She Most Proud Of?
-The relationships she’s built throughout her career.
The First Thing She’ll Do When “Normality” Resumes?
-Visit Ashleigh. Catch Sue in the Netherlands, hopefully soon.
Connect With Sue
Let’s Connect!
-Twitter
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Ashleigh and Kasey talk to Raul Gutierrez, Inside Sales Account Manager at Dell Boomi, about improving the interview process, finding the right environment, and his future.
SHOW NOTES
His Sales Journey / 00:00:58
-Raul’s sales journey began in college when he co-founded a small cyber-security software solution with friends, and they tasked him with pitching to investors.
-Through doing this, he found out he could be successful in career technology sales and started at New Relic as an SDR before moving to another big tech company and eventually realizing he enjoys being at startups.
DEI Dialogue / 00:05:19
-Raul stresses that people shouldn’t be afraid to have these hard conversations. When we speak openly and respectfully about what makes us uncomfortable or nervous, it not only makes it easier to discuss but brings us together.
Company Culture and Interviewing / 00:09:23
-Almost all companies, small or large, will sell you a vision during the interview process that seldom is accurate, and you won’t know what it’s actually like until starting.
-Raul would rather companies be honest from the beginning about the shortcomings of their company and the ugly parts of the job at hand. It would make it easier in the long run for both parties to decide if they’re the right fit for each other.
Gauging the Work Environment / 00:13:53
-Ask about the challenges this role will face and what skills or characteristics are necessary to succeed in the position.
-It’s also okay to reach out and ask someone in the company that’s not part of the interview process questions about the culture.
The Right Environment / 00:23:21
-It’s imperative to be introspective and understand what the situation is, how you’re interpreting it, and how it’s making you feel.
-Making a list of the pros and cons of your previous job as well as the job you want can be helpful.
-Remember that you have choices. Your decisions and goals are what form your obligations. You can always make a change if you’re not happy.
His Future / 00:30:48
-He has two overarching goals. The first is to share the knowledge he gains to help others achieve. The other is to seek fulfillment in himself through setting up weekly professional and personal goals.
His Best Advice / 00:33:18
-Just start. It can be poor quality or half-assed; it doesn’t matter. Whatever it is, start.
Resources
-How Successful People Get Ish Done by Ish Verduzco
Connect With Raul
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Kasey and Ashleigh have asked everyone else these lightning round questions, and now it’s their turn. Find out everything from their morning routines to favorite sales books.
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Ashleigh and Kasey are back from hiatus to talk about updates to the podcast and what you can expect moving forward.
SHOW NOTES
The Major Updates / 00:00:20
-Ashleigh moved to Europe!
-Now that Kasey’s transitioned her focus to coaching entrepreneurs and business leaders rather than sales, she feels she’s not the best fit for The Other Side of Sales, so she’s stepping back.
-After experiencing 2020, the goal and vision for this podcast broadened immensely. There’s more to do in diversity, equity, and inclusion.
What’s Next / 00:08:43
-New episodes will be released every week on Thursdays.
-New co-hosts, each bringing a unique perspective, will join Ashleigh and will be announced in the coming weeks. And, we’re looking to bring on more!
-The State of Sales Survey will happen again in the fall.
-The “Selling While…” webinar series will continue in the summer.
-Be on the lookout for collaborative content with brands that share our values and mission.
The Take-Away / 00:14:37
-When you care deeply about something, being willing to pause is sometimes one of the best things you can do to move forward.
Let’s Connect!
-Twitter
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Plans for the rest of 2020
Kasey and Ashleigh are taking a break and this will be the last episode of 2020! We have a lot of great things cooking(plus Ashleigh has a special announcement) - and to make sure we do them right we need to pause releasing new episodes for the rest of 2021 and for potentially a couple of weeks into 2021.
Thank you all for coming with us on this journey and we hope you have a wonderful holiday season!
And now our regularly scheduled programming…
Ashleigh is moving to the Netherlands!
After a decade of dragging her husband around the US supporting her sales career (and various failed attempts to move to Europe) Ashleigh’s husband Michael is going to graduate school in the Netherlands and since Ashleigh is her own boss she can finally support him as he chases his dreams.
They’ll be moving to a city called Leiden, and will be leaving pretty much...anytime. House is sold - furniture is done. Everything is packed up and ready to go.
It hasn’t been easy - but very excited about this new adventure!!
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Moderator Michael Tuso is joined by panelists Rachel Biers, Sunanda Nair, and Tim O’Keeffe to discuss how to bring your full self to work, address uncomfortable situations, and come out to your coworkers.
Connect
-Michael
-Rachel
-Tim
-Sunanda
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Ashleigh and Kasey offer their expertise on how to grow your network among your peers because that’s how this podcast came to be, and it’s what makes life and work a whole lot more fun.
Show Notes
Why
-Growing a network of strong relationships is beneficial for both your professional and personal life.
-It was Kasey’s network of people whom she met through sales events and LinkedIn that got her through the attack this summer. And it was Ashleigh’s network that helped her through various lay-offs.
Who
-Be willing to cast a wide net, but be sure that there is an actual connection or mutual interest.
-Become friends with anyone that strikes you as interesting. We often, women particularly, feel that there must be a specific reason to reach out, but there doesn’t.
How
-It can be anything from mentioning how interesting you think their profile is to the fact that you work in similar positions at competing companies. Even simply stating that you’re trying to build your network of sales professionals works. Just stay clear of generic messages and try to personalize it.
-Remember that if you’re connecting with someone that seems super busy, don’t take it personally if they don’t respond the first time you send a message. It’s okay to send another.
-This doesn’t just apply to LinkedIn, but to Discord, Slack, Twitter, Instagram, really any messaging or social site.
What Next?
-Don’t be afraid of complimenting them or being effusive first.
-Utilize the first rule of improv, “yes, and….” If someone asks you for a favor, say you can do it, and tack on something else that might help them out.
-Engage and amplify their content.
-Ask them what they’re excited about and if they need help with anything relating to that.
-Be open to referring people to them as well as them to other people.
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With the United States election coming up in less than a week, we would like to endorse the candidate we believe aligns with our mission and encourage everyone, whether you agree or disagree with this endorsement, to VOTE.
SHOW NOTES
Who
-Our mission has always been to create a sales culture where everyone can thrive. In this election, there is one candidate who aligns with this mission and one who actively works against it. We are asking you to vote for Joe Biden for President.
Why
-Democracy is at stake in this election. The soul of our country is at stake in this election. Our current President has repeatedly spread misinformation, sown distrust of the voting process, undermined science, and perpetuated the “us vs. them” narrative.
-We will always have differences in how we believe our country should change, but if we don’t have a shared understanding of what is real and what isn’t, there’s no hope for us to come together and improve.
-We like that Joe Biden addresses reality. He listens to science, is willing to talk about systemic racism, and makes it clear he will be a President that serves everybody - even those that don’t vote for him.
Lastly
-Make a plan, be safe, and, whether you agree or disagree with us, exercise your right to vote.
Resources
-Vote.org
-When We All Vote
-Rock the Vote
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Moderator Nikki Ivey talks to panelists Blake Hudson, Chantel George, and Galem Girmay about what it’s like to be a Black sales professional today, including topics like white supremacy in sales, half-hearted change in companies, and how to vet organizations.
Connect with our Guests
-Nikki
-Blake
-Chantel
-Galem
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Show Notes Sales Journey
-To say Reuben was reluctant to join sales is an understatement, but with a background in software development and pricing, he started a consulting business and had to begin selling.
-He tried to copy the enterprise salespeople he’d seen at previous companies but felt out of place until he realized selling his way was an option.
-It took a change of mindset to feel comfortable in his sales role; he wasn’t selling or manipulating, but rather helping. This vocabulary switch made everything more natural.
Leaning into Science
-As a software developer, he was brought onto sales calls to answer the deep technical questions the clients had, but that the salesperson wasn’t capable of explaining.
-When he leaned into his technical expertise, rather than trying to be what he thought a salesperson was, he had better interactions with prospects.
Aligning Interests
-All companies tinker with the question of how to align what salespeople say their company can offer versus what the company can provide. A lot of this boils down to incentives.
-If sales reps are purely trying to close deals to get a check and move on, it’s going to work a lot differently than closing deals and receiving compensation as the customer grows more successful over time.
-With his background, he has a unique perspective. He can think about what the customer needs from a sales, technology, and service standpoint.
Acceptance
-Traveling consulting was his primary business until he had children. Missing their big moments was never an option, so he began virtual and local consulting. He might not get a penthouse in New York, but that wasn’t important being present for his kids was.
-This shift allowed him the flexibility he needed to take care of his family and forced him to be more open about his personal life at work.
-Accepting where you are and who you are is powerful. Finding your niche and being the master of your domain brings confidence and security.
His Podcast
-Reuben was having a hard time keeping up with his workload and didn’t have time to meet for informational interviews, so he thought about writing a book or starting a podcast.
-The book is still in the works, but the podcast is up and running, and he interviews sales and marketing experts so that you don’t have to make the same mistakes he did.
Resources
-Sales for Nerds
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As human beings, we have to accept that we’ll occasionally screw things up. Ashleigh and Kasey offer their advice on what to do when someone calls you out.
SHOW NOTES
Listen
-If someone tells you that you did something they felt was wrong, inappropriate, or harmful, your first instinct will most likely be to defend yourself. Fight this instinct and be open and curious by listening and encouraging the feedback.
-Substitute “why” questions with “what” questions like:
-What is it about what I did that made you feel that way?
-What could I have done differently to give you a better impression?
-What makes you say that?
Quick Reactions
-We live in a culture in which assuming the worst of people and running with that assumption is common practice, so it’s inevitable that you will get called out wrongly.
-Even if this is the case, coming from a place of curiosity rather than defensiveness will serve you better. Show appreciation for their willingness to bring this up and ask those same questions.
Reflection
-Ask for time to reflect before you further discuss the matter. You do have to get back to them about what it is you’ve learned and what you’ll do moving forward.
-This time for reflection is also a great time to gather feedback. Sometimes it’s unclear who’s in the right and you can take this time to ask others.
Conclusion
-Getting it wrong isn’t the end of the world. The real mistake is not taking the time to understand and fix it.
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The world is in a contentious climate currently. Ashleigh and Kasey offer their best advice on how to call someone out when you see them do or say something you feel is wrong.
SHOW NOTES What Does This Mean?
-Calling someone out is when you see someone say or do something that you don’t feel is right, and you let them know.
-This episode is focused on relatively minor situations, not threatening, discriminatory, or harassing behavior.
Why Do It?
-It’s important to educate. Sometimes people say or do something that they don’t know is bad.
-The intent should be growth, not to make a person look or feel bad.
Publicly or Privately?
-Kasey has called out people both publicly and privately, and it has never been received well, being either blocked, ignored, or dismissed.
-Ashleigh has called out a few people privately to mostly positive responses. The downside of calling someone out privately is that much may not change
Negative Reactions
-Nothing would change if we all kept silent when we saw something we thought was wrong. Even if the person reacts negatively, it doesn’t mean they haven’t learned or grown.
SDRs
-Many of the people Kasey has called out publicly shame SDRs for bad emails. Be an advocate for SDRs because the job is already hard enough.
Conclusion
-If you’re going to call someone out online, understand what you’re walking into, and be ready for their reaction or lack thereof.
-Understand the dynamics of public versus private and make a decision accordingly.
-If you’re in a situation in which someone is threatening, discriminatory, or harassing, talk to Tara Furiani, who deals with this daily as an HR leader.
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In response to the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Ashleigh and Kasey take this week to highlight a couple more of the most influential heroes in their lives.
SHOW NOTES
Ruth Bader Ginsburg
-On September 18th, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away. She was dedicated, eloquent, determined, and honest, among many other things. She leaves a legacy inspirational to so many people, including Ashleigh and Kasey.
Kasey’s Heroes
-Maya Angelou: A guiding quote for Kasey is Angelou’s, “I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”
-Mr. Rogers: He celebrated each individual, stating, “As human beings, our job in life is to help people realize how rare and valuable each one of us really is, that each of us has something that no one else has- or ever will have- something inside that is unique to all time. It's our job to encourage each other to discover that uniqueness and to provide ways of developing its expression.” What makes each person unique is what makes them powerful, and if we could recognize this, we’d all be a lot better.
Ashleigh’s Heroes
-John McCain: Ashleigh was lucky enough to meet him during a campaign stop when she was a kid and, as she grew older, watched him grow into a political force. In addition to his service story, he had an unparalleled ability to build compromise and consensus.
-Marie Curie: She devoted her life to science and, though she didn’t know what the outcome of her research would be, persisted with the help of her support system that championed her the whole way through.
Why Have Heroes?
-Not only can you learn from watching them, but they can also instill a sense of hope. Heroes remind us that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.
Resources
-I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou
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Ashleigh and Kasey talk to the Founder of Factor8 and Girls Club, Lauren Bailey, otherwise known as LB, about salary negotiations, justification, and perfectionism.
SHOW NOTES #GirlsClub
-Lauren spent 15 years in the inside sales industry, and as she grew, found she was one of the only women at the table. However, it wasn’t until she started Factor8 and joined the Women Sales Pros group that she realized the power of female mentorship.
-#GirlsClub helps women who want to get to the next level in their sales career achieve that goal by providing skill training, confidence boost, and a supportive community.
Encouragement
-A confidence gap exists between men and women, from promotions to salary negotiations, women are sure that if they work hard, they will get the promotion or the raise, but this isn’t the case.
-As a leader, you have a financial responsibility to your company, but women need the encouragement to negotiate. Teach them the skills to do that, and it will pay off, you won’t lose them.
-As a woman, start advocating for yourself, and don’t be afraid to raise your hand if you want or need something.
Justification
-Finding a mentor seems like a daunting task, but you don’t need a great reason to ask someone you admire a question or to send a connection request.
-Lauren coaches women to get past this thinking by offering a community that encourages risk-taking. Women find their voices in a supportive environment and automatically connect with a mentor.
Perfectionism
-The most important thing to remember is that everybody makes mistakes, even the people you admire. It’s okay to screw up.
-Move past the shame of a mistake by being vulnerable. Speak about it and watch others do the same.
-This is a moment that’s highly intense for everyone. You might not want to speak about how you feel for fear of saying the wrong thing, but as long as you’re earnest and open to learning, it’s okay to mess it up. It’s a part of the process.
Connect with Girls Club
-Website
Connect with Lauren
Resources
-The Confidence Gap
-How to Have Impossible Conversations: A Very Practical Guide by James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian
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Ashleigh and Kasey talk to Blake Hudson, the Admission Manager at Victory Lap, about gratitude, his background in politics, and how to clarify your identity and purpose.
Show Notes
The Gratitude Gap
-Blake hit the ground running in his first sales role, hitting quota for the first three months. In the fourth month, the stakes increased. His quota doubled, leads narrowed, and he felt he wouldn’t be able to meet the metrics.
-After spending the better part of the quarter sulking, a conversation with a friend helped him to realize that if he could change his viewpoint to one of gratitude, he would be happier and more likely to succeed at work.
Politics
-In his junior year of high school, Blake attended Boys State, a week for learning about civic engagement and responsibility that impacted him greatly. He returned for his senior year, signed up for an American Government class amid the 2008 election, and his group won the mock campaign assignment.
-Believing that politics could be where he would shine, Blake went to college and studied Political Science and Communication and, upon graduating, began working on the Senate Floor.
-While there, he saw what the real work in politics is: listening to your constituents, understanding their needs, taking that to the state or national level, and building coalitions around it.
-He then went on to get his Master’s in Public Administration before running for State Senate.
Sales
-His Senate campaign ended, and he worked on a congressional campaign. After this, he found himself at a very liminal spot in his career.
-While attempting to make sense of his resume, he worked as an admissions counselor. His manager emphasized that this role was a sales position he was selling the university.
-Blake realized he wasn’t getting paid or trained like a sales professional, so he brainstormed ways he could break into sales and eventually found Victory Lap.
Talking to People About Sales
-A tactic he learned early on from giving speeches is to put your focus on the audience. Think about how they are benefitting from your interaction. Sales is about solving problems for other people.
-For underrepresented groups, it can be hard to picture success in the sales industry. Someone must be actively seeking individuals of those groups out and presenting the job in a way that instills the confidence that they can learn and succeed in the role.
Sales as a Start
-Sales is a phenomenal launching point for a variety of different careers. Not only are you able to dip your toe into a wide array of departments, but the skillset relates to every industry and even to personal life to build better relationships.
Who You Want the Be
-The question of who you want to be is overwhelming but can be approached practically.
-Blake helps professionals find clarity and understand what they want by asking what they needed when they were growing up. From there, they then think about how they can provide that for other people, and how those people then change as a result.
-Another tactic would be to ask why multiple times.
Resources
-Ditch the Pitch by Steve Yastrow
Connect with Blake
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Kasey went through a very traumatic event in early June and recently returned to the podcast. Today she shares what happened and offers guidance on how to best support survivors of traumatic experiences.
SHOW NOTES The Attack
-Kasey had two dogs, Mae, who she lovingly refers to as her “ride or die bitch,” and Pillsbury, who had a troubled upbringing and had shown aggression towards Mae, but had never been aggressive to Kasey or her boyfriend, Andy.
-One afternoon while Andy was gone, Kasey heard Mae barking. Knowing Pillsbury was about to attack, she grabbed Mae to bring her outside as he charged, biting Kasey’s arms, chest, face, and ear.
-She managed to get the door open and scream for help. One of her neighbors ran to the end of the driveway, saw what was happening, grabbed her husband, and called 911.
-Paramedics and firefighters arrived but refused to come and get her because of the proximity of the dog. Kasey mustered all of her strength to get up and walk to the end of the driveway where she passed out.
The Hospital
-She spent the next several hours in the emergency room, having doctors take x-rays of her wounds.
-Her orthopedic surgeon was familiar with the genetic degenerative neurological disease that affects her extremities and alters her pain tolerance. Because of this knowledge, he recognized she was strong enough for him to clean and close her wounds right then to make her more comfortable throughout the night.
-The surgery went smoothly, but she felt physically and emotionally drained. Though she wanted to shut down and hide, she knew that she needed to communicate, so she texted Ashleigh and a few close friends as well as posted on LinkedIn.
Recovery
-Being triggered is no joke for those recovering from a traumatic experience. It comes out of nowhere, puts you right back in the traumatic moment, and leaves you feeling disempowered and out of control.
-While it’s helpful to not go through this experience alone, one of the hardest parts is that the trauma isn’t her own, she shares it with other people who have been affected by it in very different ways.
How to Support
-Don’t ask questions that force someone to relive their experience. Don’t ask questions that minimize their experience. Don’t act as if nothing has happened.
-The details that a person chooses to tell about an experience are a gift, but not the full story. You don’t have permission to ask for more or make assumptions.
Surviving
-Kasey’s consistent work with a therapist throughout the years before the attack helped her to navigate her emotions more adeptly afterward.
-Form a strong sense of self and support system before anything happens, so that you’re prepared if something occurs.
Resources
-On Being: Trauma and Resilience Land in Our Bodies with Bessel van der Kolk
-How to Support Someone Who Has Experienced Trauma
-Dealing with Trauma
-Talk to Someone
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Ashleigh and Kasey celebrate the one year anniversary of this podcast by discussing what they’ve learned throughout this journey and what’s to come in the next year.
SHOW NOTES The Basics
-This shit is hard. We figured out a few things quickly, but we are learning and improving each week.
The Mission
-When we started this, our mission was to tell stories from a wide variety of sales professionals. We wanted our demographics to match those of the United States, but we failed.
-A lot of people have good intentions, but don’t do the work. Having good intentions isn’t enough. We have to hold each other to a higher standard to make a change in our industry.
Fixing It
-To be sure that we are staying true to our mission, we are setting up an accountability board. It will be a group of individuals representing various demographics that we will report to, will advise us, and will call us out so that we stay true to our goals.
The State of Sales Survey
-We had some lofty goals for this endeavor, and we’re very excited to share the results. The demographics of the study don’t entirely match the demographics of the United States, but they come close. We got some great feedback, and there will be another one.
Flexibility
-It’s much more valuable for us to be flexible about the content that we share and how we deliver it based on what we feel our community needs and wants. The mission is rigid, the format isn’t, and being flexible in this way allows us to stick with our goals.
Thank you to everyone who has listened and participated. We’re so excited for this next year!
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Ashleigh and Kasey flip the script on temporary co-host Brian Smith Jr. this week, asking him about his future in sales, sharing failure, and finding motivation.
Show Notes Being a Cohost
-Brian’s biggest takeaway while filling in for Kasey as a cohost was that everybody has a story that can help move the sales industry forward, but no one is taking the time to listen. Listening to the unheard voices will help to build better organizations.
Staying in Sales
-Most salespeople struggle with the decision to stay in sales or move on. Sales is a hard industry filled with rejection and many ups and downs, a lot of it out of your control.
-Brian’s unafraid of hard work, and he’s proven that throughout his career, but this has intimidated a lot of people.
-He’s reflected enough to understand that he has the discipline for sales. It’s not his work ethic. He’s dealing with a lot of people that aren’t upfront about their discrimination.
Connection
-Reach out to the people that you admire and follow up if they don’t respond. Throw the rules out the window because they’re only optional. Make moves based on your instinct and experience.
Sharing Failures
-Salespeople only talk about the wins, brushing failures under the rug, and quickly moving on because they think it might cost them their job or a promotion. A lot of positives come from discussing failure.
-Sharing failure allows you to understand where you went wrong and prevent others from making the same mistake.
Motivation
-The quota isn’t a motivator. Dig deeper into your motivation by asking yourself why five times. It’s important to have a personal connection with the work that you do.
-Do the work yourself, don’t wait for your manager to do his with you. The people that understand what they need and bring this information to their managers end up getting way more support.
-We’re told that if you put your head down and work hard, someone will notice and give you a promotion. It rarely works this way. You have to carve a path for yourself.
Perception
-Brian was an outgoing kid, always the loudest in the room. As he grew older, that shifted, and he became much more reserved, feeling he needed to tone himself down.
-He’s been able to use this shift to his advantage. It’s powerful to be able to listen, but he does feel that people haven’t been able to see the real him because he was afraid of how they would perceive him.
Resources
-David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell
-Good Life BBQ
Connect with Brian
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Ashleigh and Brian talk to Travis King, host of The Community Builder Show, and advocate for human connection. Travis has worked with Fortune 500 brands, venture-backed technology startups, and rising entrepreneurs. This week they discuss downplaying insight, connecting with the Black community, and strategically jumping from job to job.
Show Notes Power of Human Connection
-The professional world mimics school. Often, you see someone or scroll past their content every day on LinkedIn, but never stop to connect or communicate with them.
-Forming new connections seems like work, and there are so many other things that need your attention, but it’s an important part of sales.
-You don’t have to do much. It can be as small as taking a few more seconds to write a full comment rather than leave an emoji.
Downplaying Insight
-Travis tried to bring his talented friend, Brandon, onto his sales team. Travis went to his manager after the interview to ask how it had gone and was told that Brandon was too cocky.
-This story resonated with Brian, who tends to downplay his insight. If he comes into a room confident and knowledgeable, he’s often treated as a threat.
-No one should feel the need to downplay their insight. Just because you know something does not mean someone else does. It’s a disservice to the entire team to not share your knowledge.
Black Sales Professionals
-Representation does matter. If people don’t see others that look like them in sales roles, they don’t know that it’s a possibility.
-Companies need to start targeting the many talented Black salespeople working in retail stores or fast-food chains. Most aren’t aware that sales is a viable career and that they’ve already acquired many of the necessary skills through their current job.
How to Resonate with the Black Community
-Travis advocates for completely stripping the fluff of the job description. According to him, companies should say, “We need hungry, curious, coachable people who are looking to grow. What will you be doing? Setting up meetings with decision-makers to potentially purchase this technology.”
-The sales world needs to figure out how to communicate with underrepresented communities, not force those groups to communicate in the same way they do.
Acquiring Information
-Little strategic career steps that may not make sense to the outside world will help in the long run.
-Play the game. Acquire all the information you can, take what you need, and use it for what you want. Information will empower and enable you.
Resources
-The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters
Connect with Travis
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Show Notes HR Background
-Tara always saw herself in sales but fell into HR while working as a leasing consultant. After receiving little training before starting the position, she documented her learning process and used that knowledge to help all incoming employees.
Influences
-Tara grew up in Orange County with her adoptive parents, an interracial couple. Both experiencing hate herself and seeing the hate her parents received strongly influenced who she is personally and professionally.
-She has five biological and two adopted children and a passion for changing the workforce so that they never have to fight the same battles that she or her parents have.
The Right Environment
-It’s tough to immediately know if a company’s culture is right for you, so do some digging. Figure out if they have publicly spoken about the issues most important to you.
-Look beyond their words and into their actions. If they’re not actively giving opportunities to underrepresented groups, that’s a major red flag.
-Don’t be afraid to ask about their stance on these tough subjects. Asking lets them know that you’re passionate.
HR’s Role
-HR’s current role is to protect the company, not the employees, and this needs to change.
-The organization’s general counsel or employment attorney should protect the company, and HR should focus on ensuring employees are protected.
Filing a Complaint
-Problems won’t be fixed unless you work to solve them, speak up if you feel uncomfortable or see mistreatment.
-Document every instance in a notebook. Include the following information: date, time, place, people involved, and what was specifically said or done. Doing this provides evidence of a pattern should the situation escalate.
-You will not be blacklisted from any industry for filing a complaint.
Paperwork
-If you are terminated, never sign anything immediately. Take it home and have someone look through the paperwork.
Connect with Tara
-Not the HR Lady
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Show Notes
Hair
-Reland grew up in a fairly affluent White neighborhood constantly asked if her hair could be touched. She didn’t truly understand the negative nuances of that question or action until later on.
Being Mixed
-It’s fair to say she’s privileged as a mixed-race person. Most people assume she’s White, but that doesn’t mean she’s a stranger to racism.
-Reland is tired of frequently receiving questions concerning her ethnicity. They make her feel boxed in, and once she’s been labeled as a Black person, her status changes.
Positivity
-Experiencing racism in any form is incredibly taxing, but Reland is naturally positive, resilient, and energetic. Her motto is that when one door closes, another opens, and she’s not going to sit and stare at a closed door.
Her Sales Journey
-She began in retail then worked at a bank for a period before returning to retail as a Regional Merchandising Manager for Michael Kors. She left Michael Kors after being recruited to do business development for staffing.
The Health Toll
-To express an opinion as a Black woman makes you angry, but constantly being everyone’s cheerleader takes a physical and emotional toll.
-Reland ended up in the hospital for four days because her kidneys were on the verge of failure and she hadn’t paid attention to the signs. She’s held to a higher standard and feels she needs to show up for work no matter what.
Starting a Business
-After losing her job due to COVID and unable to get ahold of unemployment benefits, she started her own business in late March.
-As she built it, the push to amplify Black voices began, so her launch has been successful.
-Register to vote and vote with your dollar. Support the Black-owned businesses in your community.
Performative Ally-ship
-You won’t get a gold star for posting on Instagram. Your actions speak louder than words or posts.
Resources
-Racial Disparities in healthcare on The Washington Post
-Everyone Communicates, Few Connect by John C. Maxwell
Connect with Reland
-Website
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Show Notes
Personal Brand and Advocating for Yourself
-It’s a necessity to define your brand in today’s world. Take the time to write your mission statement, biography, and determine your core values so that you’re ready to advocate for yourself when opportunities arise and can recognize when they aren’t a good fit.
-Blaire encourages women to jump on opportunities for which they may not meet all the criteria. As long as it is something you’re passionate about and willing to learn more about, you have the tools to land the job.
Culture Fit
-Organizations often use the term “culture fit” to describe what they are looking for in potential candidates, but this is a code for finding people with similar backgrounds as current employees. They don’t usually see a woman or woman of color fitting into this mold that they’ve had the advantage of creating.
-Instead, they should be thinking about what potential candidates will add to the culture, how they will challenge the team, and how they will innovate or disrupt the status quo.
-We have a moral obligation to think beyond ourselves and put effort into implementing diversity into retainment and leadership, not just recruitment.
Finding a Healthy Culture
-Once Blaire determined who she was and what she valued, she had a much easier time detecting what was a good fit for her and what wasn't.
Being a Trailblazer
-As a Black person, decide to take responsibility and create a safe space for other Black people to come in so that the weight doesn’t fall entirely on your shoulders. You’re not the token, you’re the chosen, and it’s up to you to make that change.
-As a White ally, understand that diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging all matter when it comes to bringing underrepresented groups into spaces that they've been kept out of. Prompt discussions about what will change in terms of recruitment, retention, and promotion of people of color in your organization.
Empathy
-If you have done something that has made a person of color feel uncomfortable, do not get defensive or deny their experience. It takes courage to voice discomfort. Instead, take a moment to evaluate and analyze your behavior and empathize with them.
Advocating for Others
-It’s the current trend for White men to be promoted by other White men. If you’re a White person that has been tapped to become the next executive, advocate for the qualified people of color in your organization that are being overlooked. Earn the promotion by knowing that you’ve gone up against the best people in your organization.
Tough Conversations
-Blaire’s an optimist by nature and believes we’re heading in the right direction, but realizes now more than ever that it is not White folk’s responsibility to take care of Black people. It is White folk’s responsibility to have tough and uncomfortable conversations about privilege and white supremacy amongst themselves.
Resources
-Sales Enablement: A Master Framework to Engage, Equip, and Empower a World-Class Sales Force by Byron Matthews and Tamara Schenk
-The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table by Minda Harts
Connect with Blaire
-Website
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Show Notes
Black Lives Matter in the UK
-Black Lives Matter isn’t a movement exclusive to the United States, it’s global. The issue may manifest itself in different ways between different cultures, but it’s still there.
Diversity of Thought
-Janice sees the term diversity of thought as a way for organizations to step around the difficult job of creating a truly diverse environment and company culture. It’s too often that a company prides itself on diversity of thought, but the board consists of only white men.
Leadership
-The best leaders have the ability to recognize that they don’t know everything and bring forward team members that are better equipped to handle certain situations. Any leader that is afraid to do this is stifling their company.
-As an interviewee you have the chance to interview the company as well. Decide which culture you succeed in and design questions to uncover whether or not the company and its leadership team is right for you.
Moving Forward
-If you’ve given a job your best and it doesn’t work out, understand that not every job will and that’s completely okay. Brush it off because you tend to learn more from the things that don’t work than the things that do.
-Don’t see brushing it off as an opportunity to blame other people or avoid introspection, just as a way of moving forward positively without denting your ego.
Being Black
-Although it’s difficult to quantify the discrimination that has hindered Janice throughout her life and career, being Black has most definitely not helped her on her journey.
Detach
-Whether you’re going into an interview or into a sales pitch, believe in yourself and what you offer, deliver to the best of your ability, and then detach yourself from the result. At that point it’s then up to the interviewer or customer to make a decision and completely out of your control.
Getting Into Sales
-After graduating from college in the late 1980s, Janice moved to the United States and began selling textile designs in the Northeast.
-She then relocated to Africa for a period of time to work for Botswana’s Ministry of Education and when she moved back to the UK she worked in financial services. This is when Janice received formal sales training.
-Janice got her MBA and moved on to work in operations and customer experience at a construction company while setting up her own practice as well.
Having Curiosity
-It doesn’t have to be spending a lot of time or money traveling, but seek out experiences that challenge you and be curious about what’s going on outside of your own experience.
-Curiosity is necessary in sales because you’re not just selling a product or solving a problem, you’re creating an impact.
-As a salesperson you have to negotiate with so many different perspectives and personalities within a single organization. If you don’t have curiosity about what drives each of those people, you won’t make it.
Resources
-Business Evolution by Janice
-The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey
Connect with Janice
-Website
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Show Notes:
“Selling While Black” Panel Discussion
-Nikki moderated our webinar “Selling While Black” and was really touched by the response that it got. She’s glad people took it seriously and found it valuable enough to bring the discussion back to their teams as well as that Black people and people of color had their experiences reflected and validated.
SDRDefenders
-SDRDefenders was formed because SDRs need protection. Some fast facts: SDRs are responsible for 60-80 percent of pipeline at most companies and are the least compensated employees; the average tenure for an SDR is shorter than the average amount of time it takes to promote SDRs into AE positions.
-SDRDefenders has many different roles that it supports and appeals to including SDR stars (those that are in the role and doing the prospecting work), SDR graduates (those that got their start as an SDR and have since moved on to a closing role), and SDR champions (those that have moved into C-suite positions that identify with the passion of SDRDefenders or themselves started as an SDR).
Diversity
-Too often corporations and businesses are only seeking diversity to check a box to avoid a PR scandal or meet compliance requirements when it would be so much easier and more fulfilling to think about diversity in terms of impact that can be made in people’s lives.
-This is not too big a problem for any individual sales leader to handle. Make the change on your team, if you put the intention and energy into it a shift will happen.
Resources
-Selling While Black
-What is a Microaggression on NPR
-Addicted to the Process by Scott Leese
Connect with Nikki
https://www.sdrdefenders.com/
https://www.crowdcast.io/e/webinar-selling-while-black/register
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikki-ivey
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/08/872371063/microaggressions-are-a-big-deal-how-to-talk-them-out-and-when-to-walk-away
https://www.amazon.com/Addicted-Process-Transactional-Confidence-Consistency-ebook/dp/B071SB4FZN
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SHOW NOTES
Background
-Galem was born and raised in Sweden, growing up in a town of about 7,000 people in which she became accustomed to being the only Black person in a room.
-After 20 years of living in Sweden she moved to an area just outside of Boston and was shocked by the fact that she could be in a room with only Black people.
-She spent 9 years in the Boston area before moving to London this past year to continue her role as an Account Executive at Flywire.
Being the Only
-Galem has frequently experienced the challenge of being not just the only Black person, but the only woman in a room as well.
-The immediate challenge when it comes to being the only person of a particular ethnicity is the judgement and the perception of being a threat. When it comes to being the only woman it’s often being dismissed.
-Though you may not be able to draw a fully equivalent experience, Galem challenges you to put yourself in a situation in which you’re the only and then reflect. This hopefully will give you a little bit more empathy.
-You can also use your position as the only to create change in smaller communities by getting over the fear of uncomfortable conversations and allowing them to unfold.
Community
-Having only been raised with her biological family until the age of eight and then passed to two different foster families, Galem never felt she had a solid community or support system.
-This is why she makes it a priority to create a community both at work and in her personal life so that she and others can share experiences and feel both belonging and acknowledgement.
-Success often comes from this connection as well. Oftentimes it’s not the most talented individual that’s given the promotion, but the person that has created the best connections and white people have the advantage of having a base-level of connection right off the bat.
Selling in the US vs the UK
-Internally the corporate sales culture of Flywire varies vastly between the United States and United Kingdom. Galem has found that US sales teams are much more competitive and not as collaborative as sales teams in the UK.
-While Flywire’s London office is more diverse, she is still the only Black woman and one of only a handful of Black people in the company as a whole.
Advocating for Yourself
-To move up into leadership positions you need to take on more than just the tasks tied to salary or commission, but you also need to document everything. Find a method that works for you and keep track of the initiatives you implement and the impact they have.
Motivation
-One thing Galem wishes leadership better understood is that they should never make assumptions about motivation. Take the time to get to know your team members and what individually drives them.
Resources
-Gap Selling by Keenan
Connect with Galem
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Show Notes
Hiring Diverse Candidates
-If a hiring manager is serious about interviewing and hiring a diverse array of candidates they will seek out the avenues to reach those in underserved communities. You can come up with a variety of excuses, but if you care to put in the effort it will show.
Stop the Excuses
-An easy first step to take is to pick up the phone and create a dialogue with people that are underrepresented. Start that conversation and really listen to understand their story. After listening, process what you’ve heard, and then take action.
Balancing Emotions and Work
-Larry has a couple of mottos: “fuck it, drive on” and “figure it the freak out”. At the end of the day there are bills that need to be paid so, though it’s not easy and the system is not set up for someone like him to win, he puts on his happy face and does what he needs to do.
Mentors
-Throughout his career he’s had many allies and what he calls “mini-mentors” that have truly cared about and supported him.
-He makes it a point to meet with someone everyday and take notes on both what their conversation was about, but also what actionable steps he can take to build on what he’s just learned.
-Having a mentor is a give and take relationship. You need to be able to bring something to the table that will help them grow as well.
-When it comes to finding the right mentor for you, Larry recommends trusting your instinct.
Being Black in Corporate America
-Larry’s experienced some instances where he’s come in to lead a team of three and two made it clear that they did not respect him simply because of the color of his skin as well as had other instances of reporting to managers that discounted his value.
Going from Good to Great
-It’s great to have a work ethic, but having just that won’t make you a successful salesperson. You need to nail down your process as well and that takes time and a little bit of help.
-To be a good leader it takes care and understanding. Figure out what your individual team members want to accomplish and put in the work to move from good to great.
Resources
-SPIN Selling by Neil Rackham
Connect with Larry
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Welcome to another episode of the other side of sales - I’m Ashleigh Early - and today I’m alone.
Earlier this week Kasey was brutally attacked by a dog she’s had for two years. She is alive because her neighbors heard her screams and came running.
Since then she’s had surgery - hundreds of stitches - met with trauma specialists, hand specialists - physical and occupational therapists.
It’s been a terrifying and traumatizing experience in the extreme. The why and how of the attack doesn’t matter. What does matter is that Kasey WILL BE OKAY.
She has a long road to physical and emotional recovery - and she has told me how grateful she is to have such an incredible community who has rallied around here. All the messages of support mean the world to her. As she said in a LinkedIn post this week “I don’t think I would be alive without you”.
Yet while dealing with ALL of this Kasey has been clear with me - Other Side of Sales needs to keep going. Especially with our decision to feature only interviews with black sales pros for the foreseeable future.
The challenges our society and community are facing have not changed. Kasey’s and my resolve has not weakened - but our method will shift slightly.
Kasey has to take a step back from the recording of Other Side of Sales for a while while she focuses on her recovery. I doubt we’ll be able to keep her off Linkedin and Twitter - but she sets the pace and I can’t wait for her to be back.
Until then I’m thrilled to announce Brian Smith will be joining me as a temporary co-host until Kasey is ready to return. If you don’t know Brian you’re in for a treat - he’s a dear friend and an incredible sales pro (not to mention a bbq master and amazing father/husband). Kasey and I are so grateful to Brian for jumping in and taking this on with us.
We will keep working to drive responses to the State of Sales survey, share the stories that should have been told ages ago and continue to have conversations that while difficult and painful will allow our community to grow and evolve.
We will not stop supporting Kasey’s recovery.
We will not stop amplifying voices that need to be heard and fighting for a sales culture that recognized black lives matter and is fundamentally set up so anyone can thrive in this incredible career we love.
If there’s more you think we should do - let us know. If there are people you think we should feature - let us know.
For all the details on upcoming episodes and to get links to nominate guests and take the survey go to Othersideofsales.com
With that I thank you for listening - and I hope you’ll join us next week.
If you’re interested in helping Kasey directly consider contributing to the GoFundMe set up on her behalf to cover out of pocket medical expenses (and so she can donate the remainder to charity).
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
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Currently a BDR at Factor 8, Kira Hills has over 10 years of experience in inside and outside sales and talks to Ashleigh and Kasey about how she got into sales and her experiences in the industry as a Black woman.
Show Notes
Feeling Seen
-Kira knew she had found an environment that genuinely cared for, supported, and heard her when amid the sociopolitical, health, and personal crises she was experiencing she knew she could be transparent with her leadership team and be met with compassion and understanding.
-Organizations will have better employees by giving a damn about them.
Intersectionality
-Being both the only Black person as well as woman in the room amplifies the feeling of isolation and led Kira to edit herself in the hopes of not coming across as “too much”.
-She notices that people also have the tendency to believe they hold permission to speak to or treat her in a certain way and expect her to take it. No one has to take it, it’s okay to stand up and be vocal about what has offended you.
Getting Into Sales
-About a year after having her son Kira went to an employment agency and found a job as an administrative assistant at a company specializing in education training for EMTs and firefighters.
-Her good friend and top sales representative at this company urged her to consider sales as a career and Kira agreed, but only if this person would teach her the ins and outs of the industry.
-Kira then followed her around trade shows as well as sat in on calls and soon became their first inside sales rep.
Encouragement
-Men don’t generally wait to be tapped on the shoulder or encouraged to join the sales industry. A lot of women need this encouragement, keep encouraging those that you meet and believe would be a great fit to give it a shot.
Women of Color in Sales
-Kira has never worked with another woman of color in sales. The woman that she currently works with is in the marketing department.
Empathy
-This term has been talked about a lot over the past few months, but despite its overuse it’s still extremely important to care about what your team is going through though you might never be able to fully understand the depth of it.
-Not having the ability to fully understand is not an excuse to not try to learn. Educate yourself and use your voice. You will make mistakes, but this is a learning process.
Resources
-Anti-Racism Resources
-More Anti-Racism Resources
-Guide to Allyship
-ABC’s of Social Justice
Connect With Kira
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
SHOW NOTES
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline - 1-800-273-8255
Stop Suicides. Remember ACT
Uncrushed - A community by and for sales people to de-stigmatize mental illness in professional settings. Their website, podcast and Linkedin Group are a fantastic resource to connect with others, read their stories and get help.
Self-Screeners to take and discuss with a medical professional:
- Help Yourself - Help Others - Brief screenings are the quickest way to determine if you or someone you care about should connect with a behavioral health professional. This program is completely anonymous and confidential, and immediately following the brief questionnaire you will see your results, recommendations, and key resources.
- Mental Health Alliance - Select from a variety of screeners to cover many conditions from depression and anxiety to stress on caregivers and parents.
WaPo article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/04/mental-health-coronavirus/
Google and NAMI parter to provide anxier screener to help people during COVID
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SHOW NOTES Why Leverage Video in Sales?
-Video is a low-cost and easy way for your personality to shine through in ways other mediums, like email or phone call, don’t permit.
-People don’t really buy from companies, they buy from people. Harnessing video while it’s still underutilized puts you at a competitive advantage by allowing you to build a rapport with prospects in a way that your competitors most likely aren’t.
-This is the future of sales. Years ago there was a shift from emails and phone calls to social selling, now there’s a shift to video.
-Nailing down your points for a video helps you to sharpen your dialogue with a prospect.
Creating the Maximum Impact
-Let your guard down and your personality show. Lean in to whoever it is that you are.
-Over time you’ll recognize your idiosyncrasies (maybe you use too many filler words or you ramble too much) and make changes to try to improve, but steer clear of sounding robotic.
-Don’t forget lighting and background. Paying attention to these details makes your video easier to watch and digest.
Can You Have Too Much Energy?
-As long as it feels authentic to you and you’re getting good feedback, it shouldn’t matter.
-If you are giving your prospect a great value proposition, have delved into what their problems are, and clearly show how you can help, the likelihood that over-the-top energy bothers them enough to get a negative response is low.
Overcoming Anxiety
-As with anything new there will most likely be that feeling of anxiety until it becomes familiar. When it comes to video, take comfort in knowing that most everyone feels this same anxiety and that you can always delete, restart, or come back to it later.
-Remember that the authenticity of mistakes or getting your thoughts in order is good, it makes you more human.
-Prospects are inundated with automatic messages now and it’s refreshing to be able to see a real person on the other end, so don’t let self-consciousness about looks or sound stop you from trying to make a connection.
Reva’s Backstory
-After graduating college Reva began in recruiting. A friend was working at Oracle and convinced her to join their business development team.
-While there, Oracle acquired Eloqua and she began working for their sales team.
-Eloqua introduced Reva to application sales, marketing technology, and startup tech. Seeing these, she was inspired and wanted to dive deeper into the startup world so she joined the sales team at Vidyard as employee 75.
Motherhood and Leadership
-The kind of leader and mother that Reva strives to be are aligned. She hopes to empower her team and daughter to feel confident in working independently, making mistakes, and learning.
-There’s a level of empathy needed in both roles. She’s no longer a business development rep, but she understands the exhausting nature of the role.
-Both require her to be completely present. A leader needs to be there to listen to and support their team.
Resources
-Vidyard’s guide to video production
Connect With Reva
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/support
Ashleigh and Kasey help you to get past feeling awkward so that you can begin reaping the all of the benefits video has to offer.
SHOW NOTES Feeling Awkward
-There is a mental game involved in posting videos or utilizing them for sales and that is getting past what you look or sound like.
-It’s scientifically proven that most people don’t enjoy watching or listening to themselves, so you’re not alone in feeling awkward and everyone is capable of creating successful video content regardless of look or voice.
Why You Should Try
-It’s a lot harder to say no to somebody when you either know them personally or at the very least can put a face to a name.
-None of us will be going to events in the near future and video is the next best opportunity to connect with others in a visual manner.
The Truth
-It’s not great, but here’s the plain truth: highly attractive people have a better chance of getting great reception to their video content. Most of us are not these highly attractive people, but serious buyers don’t care about your looks, they care that you know what you’re talking about.
-Keep yourself focused on the content and the value you’re providing to your viewers because what really sells is authenticity and confidence.
Struggle and Passion
-There are a ton of people out there that share your insecurities. One of the amazing aspects of social media is the ability to connect with others like you. Sharing what you’re struggling with makes you more human.
-Believe in what you’re saying. This is what really resonates with audiences.
Hesitation
-If you’re hesitating to create a video try to understand why. If it’s for a purely superficial reason just turn the camera on and see what happens. However, if you’re unsure of what to say take a step back and begin to notice what gets you and other people fired up.
-It will feel awkward and uncomfortable for awhile, but push through those feelings and it gets easier. Put yourself out there.
Resources
-Why Do I Hate the Sound of My Own Voice?
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SHOW NOTES
SDR Chronicles
-In 2014, inspired by Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, Morgan decided he needed to begin building a personal brand so he posted a video to Facebook.
-He continued to make videos and this evolved to live streaming and then eventually to the creation of a YouTube channel.
-After seeing Gary Vaynerchuk’s keynote speech emphasizing the power of building your own brand at 2016’s Rainmaker conference, he began the SDR Chronicles.
Mastering Video
-Not only did he continually create videos, Morgan studied the best video content creators and reached out to their audiences to get a better grasp as to why people wanted to watch them.
-Morgan came to the conclusion that great creators were open, concise, told a story, and left you with something actionable. They were able to find a balance between being true to themselves and creating content that resonated with their audience.
-You don’t need fancy equipment. While it’s nice, the most important aspect is that you talk about something that you care about. This is what people will connect with.
Video for Sales
-When selling, think about your video as a movie trailer: if the trailer is good people will want to move forward and watch the movie, or in the sales industry, move forward with a discovery call.
-Keep your video to 90 seconds or less and use a repeatable formula. Morgan starts by laying out the reason for the video, mentioning a trigger or problem the audience is going through, defining a solution, and then ending with a call to action.
-Remember to smile and have a nice background.
Sales Background
-After graduating with degrees in Sports Management and Finance, Morgan realized the world of being a sports agent was not for him so he began public speaking.
-While speaking was a passion and he began to be paid, it wasn’t making a ton of money, so he turned to sales.
-While attending an event in Atlanta a friend mentioned a company that had just been funded and Morgan cold-called the VP of Sales. He eventually interviewed for an SDR position.
Heroes
-While people admire superheroes, it’s hard to connect with someone that’s perfect. We adore the people that we see as heroes, but that are vulnerable and show us what’s happening behind the scenes.
-What drives Morgan is creating impact. With the SDR Chronicles he wanted to create something that he needed while working as an SDR.
Resources
-The SDR Chronicles
-Secrets of Question Based Selling by Thomas Freese
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Ashleigh and Kasey explain how their State of Sales Survey came to be and why it’s so important that you share your stories, whether you’ve seen discrimination in the sales world or not.
How It Came to Be
-When we started this podcast we did a ton of research on what it meant to be somebody underrepresented in the sales world and we quickly came to find that there is very little information out there.
-Almost every sales-driven organization has an article about why diversity in sales matters, but there’s no comprehensive collection of data or stories about discrimination in this industry.
Why Does It Matter?
-Most of the discrimination we see today is subtle and as a community we need to see where we are right now and where there’s room for improvement.
Once It’s Closed?
-We’re anticipating closing the survey in early June then the data will be analyzed by Ashleigh, Kasey, and a third party data analyst before being shared publicly.
-We want to emphasize that everything shared will be anonymous.
Resources
-We Need to Talk - Women in Sales Webinar
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How To Write Good and Do Other Things Good Too
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If you’re at all like Ashleigh or Kasey, you’ll have a flood of emotions come over you during the middle of the workday at least once throughout this experience. They share their top tips for how to cope when you unexpectedly feel a lot.
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James is a force in the B2B sales world and the newest addition to the John Barrows sales team. With infectious positivity he’s built an impressive personal brand around his expertise and willingness to help others. He talks to Ashleigh and Kasey about the secret to forming meaningful relationships, prioritizing time, and bro culture in sales.
Resources
-Spotify Productive Morning Playlist :https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DX6T5dWVv97mp?si=HX2gD2OSRiO2xEDo0icUqg
-Google’s I Am Remarkable :https://iamremarkable.withgoogle.com/
-UNCrushed :https://www.uncrushed.org/
-Gap Selling by Keenan :https://www.amazon.com/Gap-Selling-Problem-Centric-Everything-Relationships/dp/1732891001
-Growth IQ by Tiffani Bova :https://www.amazon.com/Growth-IQ-Smarter-Choices-Business/dp/0525534407
-I Want to be in Sales When I Grow Up by John Barrows :https://www.amazon.com/Want-Be-Sales-When-Grow/dp/1643072382
Connect With James
-LinkedIn :https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamessaywhatsalesbuckley
-Twitter :https://twitter.com/saywhatsales
-James@JBarrows.com
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Today Kasey and Ashleigh get a taste of their own medicine from the incomparable Bernadette McClelland, CEO of 3redFolders.
Resources
-https://www.bernadettemcclelland.com/
Connect with Bernadette
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Show Notes
The Impact
-James has a unique situation. Because he was working from home previous to the pandemic and is fortunate enough to continue to work, his daily life hasn’t shifted too greatly.
-He realizes the enormous impact the situation has on co-workers and clients, so encourages everyone to act with compassion and empathy, even if your day-to-day hasn’t been severely affected.
Continuing to Sell
-If your business is able to be conducted as usual, despite the pandemic at hand, do not expect your salespeople to pretend everything is the same and sell the same volume.
-Never use this situation as a means to make your company look better by acting like the hero. There is a sweet spot that exists in the middle ground between exploiting and acting like nothing is happening.
-Expect your approach to change daily and rapidly as the situation evolves. Adapt and pivot like the great salesperson you are.
You Don’t Like Your Job
-James spent years working in jobs he knew he didn’t like, but continued because he was too scared to leave. It comes down to realizing you’re not doing anyone any favors by sticking around when your heart’s not in it.
-Have self awareness, be able to come to terms with the fact that you might have made a bad decision, and have the courage to move on from it.
-You’ll never be able to know everything about a company from the interview process. While you can’t control what they don’t tell you, you can control whether or not you decide to stay.
You’re a Risk?
-Between wireless retail sales, inside sales, and physician sales, James has jumped between industries and positions classifying him to future employers as a possible risk. He decided to keep away from corporate and invest in his personal brand.
-Building a personal brand and network is one of the most important things a business professional can do. It doesn’t need to be through video or podcasts, just make yourself visible and share your thoughts.
Resources
-The Lunch Break Podcast
-Managing an SDR Team Remotely
-The Sales Development Playbook by Trish Bertuzzi
-The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club by Chris Murray
Connect With James
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Show Notes
Little Wins
-Take things one step at a time. Break down the big picture into smaller bite-sized pieces and focus on those little wins to get through and feel productive.
Routine
-Develop a routine that you can stick to. Be self aware and recognize when you’re doing something that isn’t serving you and include your self care practices!
Control
-Try to direct your energy to the things that you can control.
Breaks
-Recognize when you need to take a break from work or emotionally release. This is hard, listen to yourself because we all need moments to feel whatever it is we’re feeling.
Celebrate
-Find ways to celebrate and make the most of this situation, whether that means attending a virtual happy hour or cuddling your puppy.
Last, But Not Least
-There are a lot of scary things happening, but we got this. Wash your hands, take social distancing seriously, and be safe.
Resources
CDC Coronavirus Info
WHO Coronavirus Advice
Everything You Need to Know About Social Distancing on CNN
Getting Serious About Social Distancing on NPR
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Backstory
-Micah’s sales journey started in the 2000s when he began cold calling for the New York Times.
-After college he began helping his brother with his e-commerce business and made the move to the Bay Area where he later broke into tech sales and learned the power of the tools tech sales utilized.
-With that understanding he accepted a BDR position at LaunchDarkly. At the time there wasn’t a ton of communication between the head of marketing at the BDR team which made his time there difficult. The marketing department was not very receptive to his ideas.
-Wanting to dive deeper into marketing, he pitched himself to Gravitational and currently works as their Demand Generation Manager.
Sales Addiction
-In sales, hours spent working equals more money and the better you’re spending those hours equals more money. Add in the fact that Micah wasn’t being recognized for his work, but wanted to be seen as someone that could perform and you have the perfect conditions for becoming addicted to working.
-It wasn’t until he began having stress related medical problems that he realized he needed to make a change.
Pitching Yourself and Seeing Your Value
-When he went in for an interview with Gravitational they weren’t hiring for the job, but he pitched himself through an email to the VP of Sales, met him for coffee, and 5 days later had an offer letter.
-This happened so quickly because he recognized his value. Micah had built out a dashboard that highlighted his successes and value to his previous company including information like the amount of opportunity he brought in, pipeline value, etc. so when it came time to reach out he was ready.
-We are our own worst critics, to see your value you need to acknowledge and adjust how you speak to yourself. Whether you read motivational books or listen to speakers, find a way to hype yourself up and fake it til you make it.
Separating Your Identity
-As a sales person it’s easy for your personal identity to become so intertwined with the company’s that they become one, but it’s important to maintain some sort of definition.
-Micah advises to look at your social media presence because you have a personal brand. All of the connections he’s made and conversations he’s had at previous employers are his own, not his company’s, and are relationships he can carry forward as he transitions throughout his career.
Resources
-Crucial Conversations
Connect With Micah
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It’s a hard truth about sales - not everyone will have a lifelong sales career! So what should you do if you’re wondering about other paths?
Kasey and Ashleigh discuss a four-step plan to help you build out your options and decide what the best next step is - whether it’s in sales or not!
Step One - Get Coffee with people from every department - ask them what they do and what they love about their job.
Step Two - Take all the assessments. Perspective is always valuable! Kasey is a fan of Gallup’s strength finder.
Step Three - Find a career coach. They can help you figure out how to sell your experience and explore alternate paths. If you can’t afford one, look for mentors in the direction you want to go who have made the jump.
Step Four - Take the stair step approach. Find a way to expose yourself to aspects of the new direction - projects, shadowing, or volunteer work. This will help you be 100% sure you’ll be happy!
No matter what - sales is great experience to have on your resume and will serve you well your whole career and life!
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Chelsea Strong, Director of Strategic Accounts at Obsidian Security, talks to Ashleigh and Kasey about cultivating relationships and successfully selling a highly technical product.
SHOW NOTES
Working With the Engineering Team
-Chelsea has to work very closely with the engineering team because she’s selling a highly technical product. This relationship is incredibly valuable, but hard to cultivate especially as an organization grows and scales.
-To be successful selling in this type of environment, never say anything you’re not confident in. Check in with the SE’s to clarify what you’re planning to say and be sure that it’s correct. You don’t want to sell something that the product doesn’t actually do and let the customer down.
Selling a Highly Technical Product
-It can be incredibly intimidating to work with a deeply technical product if you don’t have an engineering background. Chelsea’s background with language has been a massive help because part of the tech industry is essentially learning a new language.
-When you’re dealing with a technical audience, prospects are often wary of salespeople. Put in the work to know what you’re talking about, especially if it isn’t your specialty. Far too many salespeople and tems don’t put in the hard and, oftentimes, monotonous work to learn the background and context in which they’re working.
Getting Into Sales
-She fell into both sales and the technical sales niche she’s currently in. Her first introduction was as a cashier selling candy at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk and then began officially in outside sales with a job at Monterey Mushrooms.
-After leaving that position she began as an inside salesperson at SurfControl covering companies that had only 50 employees. It was here that Chelsea really learned to decipher who was serious about the product and who just wanted to talk on the phone.
Being a Mom
-There’s not much talk of personal lives in the sales world, but our personal lives have a massive impact on how we work and our career development. Before she became a mom Chelsea was very focused and becoming one has only increased this.
-She’s very selfish with her time and tries not to waste anyone else’s so that she can maximize her time outside of work with her daughter.
-Chelsea highlights planning in advance, ensuring you have a support system, and being transparent about your responsibility as a parent with your boss to successfully balance your work and personal life.
Connect with Chelsea
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Being laid off is a right of passage in sales, it happens to everyone is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Ashleigh and Kasey discuss why you should look at it with optimism.
SHOW NOTES
What Laid off Means
-Being laid off is essentially termination without cause, meaning that the company has decided they no longer need your services for any number of reasons aside from you doing something wrong.
-If you ask your employer if you qualify and they say yes, it’s termination without cause.
Be Transparent
-In a LinkedIn post, Ashleigh discussed having recently been laid off and received an outpouring of support from her network.
-One of the best things about being transparent about your situation is having the ability to control the negative. If you don’t treat being laid off as a bad thing, there’s a good chance future employers won’t either.
Why It Isn’t a Bad Thing
-It is neither a reflection of you or your skills as a salesperson. It’s not your fault.
-If you keep the right attitude, you’ll leave on good terms with your employer and have a wonderful reference.
-This can be a bonding experience. There are a ton of people out there going through the same situation.
-The process of finding a new job becomes easier. You have time, most likely severance, and the ability to say it wasn’t your fault.
Positivity
-It can be hard to be laid off. Give yourself the space to feel what you need to feel and then try to get excited and look at the situation optimistically. Don’t complain, blame, and point fingers. Have a nice attitude and faith that your next opportunity will be a better fit for you.
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Ashleigh and Kasey talk about competition, call centers, and coaching with Sara Beam the Founder and CEO of Virago Ventures, a full service sales enablement optimization and strategic marketing company.
SHOW NOTES
Sara’s Sales Story
-After finishing her Business Management degree, Sara accepted a position at a prominent third-party Verizon retailer. It was commission only, so after 8 months she moved on to work at a new inbound call center that sold tv, phone, and internet.
-She worked her way up to a Supervisor position within that company and was there for a total of around 4 and a half years, quitting to make the move to LA.
-In LA she became the first outbound sales rep and had the opportunity to build their sales process from the ground up, eventually becoming the Sales Director, and has worked for a few different startups since.
-It was this experience that inspired her to start a company working with smaller businesses to develop their sales process.
Competition and Motivation
-Both Kasey and Sara aren’t motivated by competition against colleagues. When Kasey was in sales each boss attempted to motivate her by pitting her against someone else on her team, but it has the opposite of the intended effect. She’d rather compete against herself.
-Sales is also a difficult environment to be working in because of how visual it is. If you’re not performing well, everyone knows it and it took a long time for Sara to get used to and accept that.
-Process is such an important part of getting through these slumps. It keeps you motivated by giving you something to believe in and rely on when you don’t have much else.
B2B vs B2C
-You’re a lot more likely to come across B2C call centers because they make less money off of each transaction so it’s all about volume. There’s no benefit from having a more consultative process.
-There is crossover though, Kasey’s first phone sales job was cold calling realtors. It operated like a call center in the sense that she was only allowed a single call and had to have billing information within the first 12 minutes, but it was outbound B2B sales.
-The call center’s repetition forces you to have a very dialed in, formulaic process that Sara has used throughout her career.
Learning and Coaching
-Sara offers one-on-one coaching for people in sales environments with little to no training. If you’re struggling don’t be afraid to contact a resource outside of your company.
-You can also approach your director and manager and ask them if they could provide more training or help you to find someone that can provide it.
-Joining different groups or communities and finding like minded people that you can connect with and will support you is also a great option for learning more.
-Google is also a viable option if you’re having trouble with something.
Resources
-Virago Ventures
-Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg
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Ashleigh and Kasey dive into how to maximize your efficiency at work by crafting and implementing your own routine or system.
SHOW NOTES
Structure and Systems
-Having a routine, regardless of whether you’re in or out of a job, impacts you psychologically and aides not only in your organization, but in your efficiency.
-It doesn’t have to be limited to a routine, you can also think about this structure like a system, in other words, a determined flow for how to handle various tasks or activities as they come up.
Why Have a System as a Salesperson
-Very few salespeople make a habit of finding people who fit their prospective buyer and even fewer have a system for communicating with the people that weren’t an immediate fit but will be in the future. Take time out each week for these activities and your life will be a lot easier.
-Sales culture today is less about putting in an excessive amount of hours and more about being the most efficient version of yourself. Make those 8 hours you spend working look more like 10 by increasing your productivity.
-Recognize and practice whatever your weaknesses are so that you minimize them to the point that they no longer can be described as a weakness.
-A system forces you to do the little things that build on each other and pay off down the line. Don’t rely purely on motivation or willpower to get to your goals because those are fleeting.
Organize Your System
-Start with the big picture then work your way down. Think about everything that needs to get done on a monthly basis, then weekly, then daily.
-Remember that some of these things done by themselves will not deliver the goal, but will help you get there. An example would be reading for 15 minutes everyday to learn more about your industry or role.
The Importance of Your Calendar
-Put absolutely everything in your calendar and actually follow it.
-Ashleigh organizes her’s in terms of customer-facing and non customer-facing activities. If there’s a chance she gets a deal or meeting out the activity, it’s customer-facing and she prioritizes it’s scheduling for the best hours.
-Think about when you are the most productive. If you’re most productive in the morning, schedule that time to tackle your big projects and take the afternoon for meetings or vice versa.
Trial and Error Learning
-When you begin to create a system, it’s mainly going to be speculation as to what will work best for you. Put it into action, be honest about what is and isn’t going well, and keep trying things. You will fail, but as long as you’re learning from that and continuing to better your system, you’ll eventually come across something that’s effective for you.
-Ask your manager, mentor, or colleague for help to find the right routine. Don’t judge other people’s methods until you’ve tried them.
-Find out what your favorite and least favorite parts of the day are or the activities that energize and drain you, then structure your day around that.
Beyond Sales
-This isn’t just applicable to your work life, Kasey is a big believer in having systems in place for her self-care as well.
-Finding the right system isn’t just about productivity, it’s about being a better version of yourself all around.
Resources
-Atomic Habits by James Clear
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Amanda Koziel talks to Ashleigh and Kasey about the truth of working in pharmaceutical sales and her business The VIP Woman, a coaching and mentorship platform for women in business.
SHOW NOTES
Amanda’s Sales Story
-At 18 Amanda worked as a hostess for a pizza place, though she loved the job, she wanted to make more money. Her mom found an ad for a customer service position, Amanda went in to interview, and shortly after was offered the position selling high end cutlery door-to-door.
-It was this position that opened her up to the world of entrepreneurship and sales, giving her a great foundation for her first job out of college in pharmaceutical sales at Eli Lilly.
Pharmaceutical Sales and Creating the Right Tone
-It was clear from her first training that this field primarily hires a particular type: young, attractive women. While she didn’t feel any discrimination from within her company, clients tended to stereotype her intelligence.
-She quickly learned that the initial tone set was everything. Creating a professional rapport right off the bat wards off a lot of inappropriate behavior.
-A lot of the personality traits that originally get women into sales and be a great advantage can also be misinterpreted and set the wrong tone.
Leading a Team
-In her previous role as a Sales Director, she managed a diverse team of 29 people. From this experience she realized how much empathy, understanding, and truly wanting to get to know someone and see them succeed impacts their respect for you.
-You need to be able to think about the fact that something you might be comfortable with could be very different for somebody else.
Starting Her Own Business
-With a passion for coaching and mentoring women, Amanda built her business after noticing that there was a gap in the market for high-level leaders in organizations to receive unbiased support and advice.
-There are many things that can be uncomfortable to talk to your boss or immediate supervisor about. The truth of the matter is that you can never be fully vulnerable or transparent with the person that writes your paychecks.
-Bringing in an outside voice or perspective is also one of the best things you can do for your team or company because that diversity of thought is how new ideas form and innovation happens.
Connect with Amanda
-The VIP Woman
Resources
-Secrets to the Millionaire Mind
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In this episode Kasey and Ashleigh dive into tips and tricks to help anyone build their professional network!
SHOW NOTES
How to Change Your Mindset
-The term “networking” feels sleazy and false, don’t think about it as that. Think about it as community, relationship, or friendship building because it’s not just about having a quick one-off conversation but rather about truly getting to know someone and learning from them.
The Importance of Networking
-Whether you have an awful experience at work or a dream that you really want to achieve, having a strong network to be able to tap into for support or resources and be there for as well is extremely helpful and rewarding.
Use Social Media
-It’s not just about posting a ton, it’s about really engaging and connecting as well as bringing your connection into the real world. Direct message anyone that you’ve been engaging with online or just think is interesting and ask if they would want to meet for coffee or hop on a call.
-Being vulnerable is your best friend, the more personal stuff is what people really connect with and what will drive up your engagement.
-If you look at some of the sales leaders with huge brands like Scott Leese, they don’t talk about the products they sell or the industry in which they sell them, they talk about their role and experience as a sales leader.
Events
-Depending on your mindset, events can be extremely helpful for growing your network. Go into them with the quality over quantity mentality. It’s not about how many people you can shake hands with and quickly give your business card to, but rather focusing on having meaningful conversations.
Following Up
-Don’t let someone that’s extremely successful or really well-respected intimidate you to the point of avoiding or waiting for them to contact you. Reach out, it’s okay to be persistent and send multiple messages.
Be Consistent
-Thinking someone is interesting and wanting to know more about the work that they do is reason enough to reach out.
-Maybe you set aside a budget for grabbing coffee each month and get to know people from different departments of your own company, people in similar roles at different companies, or people that have a great social media presence. Whatever you do, be consistent and disciplined about taking the time to network.
Resources
-Kasey’s Webinar with James Buckley
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André David Anderson, Director of Commercial Sales at Narvar, talks to Ashleigh and Kasey about his career trajectory, finding your motivation, and building out diverse teams.
SHOW NOTES
Backstory
-After graduating from Santa Clara University in 1995 with political science and history degrees and no idea what he wanted to do, he moved back to Pasadena and began to work as a Production Assistant. He still cites this job as the worst he’s ever had.
-He then began working as an office clerk for an insurance defense litigation firm in downtown LA, but it was only after his brother mentioned that André might be good at sales that he thought about it.
-In 1997 he moved to a headhunting firm in Westwood working as a recruiter, until he got fired 10 months later for not hitting his number.
-While looking through the classified ads he found a shipping company near Inglewood that he joined as the Regional Sales Coordinator, the equivalent of a BDR. Utilizing his knowledge of the Bay Area, he was able to really connect with clients and in 1999 replaced the AE that covered the San Francisco market.
-His college classmate, Brian, who was working at a startup had heard that André had been transferred up to San Francisco and offered him a position as a BDR that he accepted. When the recession hit everything went belly-up and André began working for a learning management system as a BDR, until Brian came back into the picture and asked him to move to AirWave.
-André was a Territory Development Manager, the equivalent of a BDR, at AirWave but was promoted to manager in 2006 and this was when he got his first experience building out a team.
-Following AirWave, André worked for a wifi analytics company for four years where he made the shift from working with direct sales to channel sales.
-He then moved to Narvar with Brian and has been there for two years.
Career Trajectory
-When you’re early on in your career it’s easy to think your trajectory should and will be a straight line, when in reality most people bounce around a lot, but are constantly gathering information, skills, and experience to create a more holistic picture over time.
Finding Your Why
-The thing that drives you needs to be way deeper than money. Leaving it at money, especially in interviews, makes you seem shallow, not to mention having something more makes you a better and more motivated employee and colleague.
Building Out Teams
-André is looking for the best candidates and storytellers, but is deliberate about the makeup of his team. He needs diversity, because it can only make a team stronger to have different perspectives represented.
-If companies are having trouble finding a diverse selection of candidates, it’s up to them to roll up their sleeves and do the outreach because diversity will come as long as it is an authentic value and they are willing to do the work.
Resources
-The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon and Brent Adamson
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Inspired by this post from Rachel Mae, Kasey and Ashleigh discuss how to process, address and move on from receiving feedback that is potentially sexist.
SHOW NOTES
#FiercelyFemaleFriday
-After seeing this LinkedIn post from Rachel Mae, Kasey and Ashleigh were prompted to look at the LinkedIn sales community. There are men that have massive followings that are wearing t shirts in their videos and don’t receive the same feedback to dress up. They also made their own bare-faced videos, watch Kasey’s here and Ashleigh’s here.
“Dumb Blonde”
-Ashleigh’s coach pulled her aside after a high school speech and debate competition and said that she wouldn’t receive one of her score cards because the judge had called her a “dumb blonde” and therefore everything else he had to say was irrelevant. Someone can and will get hung up on your appearance and miss the message.
Dressing up for Work
-As you get older, it’s not uncommon to feel more confident with less makeup on because you’re more confident in the quality of your work and expertise, so you don’t feel the need to makeup for that in appearance. Find the balance between what is appropriate for you and makes you feel the best within the context of what’s appropriate for your work environment.
What is Sexist Feedback
-A telltale sign that the feedback you’re receiving is sexist is if it’s superficial or about the way you present rather than your work or the efficacy of what you’re doing. If it’s still unclear, ask yourself whether this person would say something similar to someone that doesn’t look like you.
Moving Past It
-Have a network of people that you can rely on and reach out to for a “sanity check”. Try to present the situation as objectively as possible so that you can get as unbiased an opinion as possible.
-You need to be able to take a hard look at the situation and make the decision as to whether the criticism was justified or not. It’s possible that you did do something somewhat unprofessional and the response was warranted.
Reporting
-Decipher whether this sort of criticism speaks to solely a specific moment or more to the overall work environment by looking at the severity, frequency, and ubiquity. If this is indicative of the culture of the entire company, reporting might not get you very far because the truth is that HR exists to protect the company.
-When it comes to legal council and support know that once a lawyer takes your money, everything you say is protected by client privilege and that timely documentation trumps all. One of the best things you can do is shoot a text to a friend right after the incident and tell them verbatim what was said so that you have a witness and timestamp.
Perspective
-It’s not up to white men to tell you what is sexist or racist, but know that you need to also be willing to check your own ego of what is or isn’t discriminatory. Recognize that other people see things through a different lens and theirs might be more accurate than yours.
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Kasey shares her experience going to Bangladesh with the Richardson Center for Global Engagement to work on the Rohingya refugee crisis.
SHOW NOTES
How Did Kasey Get the Invite?
-It was three years ago when Kasey got connected with Mickey Bergman, head of Fringe Diplomacy as well as VP and Executive Director of the Richardson Center for Global Engagement.
-She joined Fringe Diplomacy on a trip to Cuba and almost two years later was asked to work with startups in Lebanon with the same organizations.
-This time around she went to Bangladesh to work with all of the stakeholders in the Rohingya refugee crisis. This includes the host community, NGOs, social impact entrepreneurs, and government officials. The goal was to brainstorm ways to ease some of the burden and build some successful businesses.
Learning From Them and Listening
-The idea is not to go in and tell them what to do. The idea is to offer help where you can, but really focus on learning from them and asking a lot of questions.
-Like in sales, this situation was all about listening. After partaking in multiple meetings with all of the various stakeholders, you realize that each have their own preconceived notions or perceptions on what the issue is and how to solve it. No one is taking the time to understand each other’s perceptions.
-It’s best in most cases, to check your assumptions at the door because we often forget that other people have valid reasons for doing what they do. You never have the full story.
There Are No Blockers
-If you’re feeling like you can’t do something or figure something out, look to Ekshop, a company Kasey worked with. Its two founders studied and worked outside of Bangladesh before returning to help their country by creating an ecommerce platform.
-There are numerous challenges that come with that, including a lack of literacy, internet access, and addresses. But they forged their way and partnered with the government to create digital community centers throughout the country and mapped their entire country.
-Each community center is run by an entrepreneur who must offer a certain level of services, but can add on any extra services they’re willing or able to offer. Some example services include filling out paperwork, getting a new ID, shopping online, opening a bank account, or creating an online store.
Looking for the Good and Giving
-Sales can be an incredibly brutal job. It’s important to find something that makes you feel like you’re creating a difference. That’s what will get you through the bad days, lost deals, or bad calls.
-One of Kasey’s themes for 2020 is to give first, in other words, focusing on what she can give to others and her community before thinking about what she’ll get.
Resources
-Fringe Diplomacy
-The Richardson Center for Global Engagement
-Information on the Rohingya refugee crisis
-Ekshop
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Ashleigh and Kasey cover the basics of how to take a vacation as a salesperson. Topics include when the best timing is and how to tell your boss.
SHOW NOTES
What is a Vacation?
-Ashleigh and Kasey define a vacation as a time to adventure or unwind, depending on your preference and whatever you feel recharges you, but it must be somewhere outside of your norm.
When is a Good Time?
-An overarching rule as a salesperson is to stay away from traveling at the end of the quarter. -Plan ahead and look into how your company and roles work, from there choose the least stressful weeks to be gone. If you’re still not sure, your boss should have no problem answering when the best time to take a vacation would be.
Telling Your Boss
-Approach the subject of taking a vacation with a sense of humility and always be sure to bring it up sooner rather than later. A good rule of thumb is that if your trip is 3 days or less, you’re good to give 2-3 weeks notice, if it’s more than a week, make sure you give at least a month.
-Remember that you’re not asking for permission, you’re more negotiating the details. Tell them the dates you’re thinking about being gone, a little bit about what you’re doing, and the plan you have in place to make sure you don't miss quota.
What to Do on Vacation
-Bring a book or crosswords, whatever helps you to relax and completely shut down from your day-to-day life so that you can come back with more energy.
Resources
-Scott’s Cheap Flights
-Skyscanner
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Maria Tribble, VP at Path Factory, discusses being a carrier of kindness in both the professional sales world and in your personal life.
SHOW NOTES
Background
-Maria is currently the VP of Path Factory, but has another passion for teaching children how to be carriers of kindness and the importance of being kind to both yourself as well as others.
Reboot by Jerry Colonna
-This book and its emphasis on the fact that better humans make better leaders helped Maria decide to be more vulnerable, open, and authentic moving forward.
-Kasey’s also read this book and it transformed how she thought about dealing with trauma, hurt, or grief by being kind to yourself and giving the time and space necessary to address what’s hurting you.
Dreams of Not Being the CEO
-Throughout the past 10 years, Maria has bounced between being an individual contributor and sales leader, finding that she gets the most enjoyment out of making a difference in the lives and career paths of the people on her team. She isn’t interested in being in charge of the whole ship, and that’s okay.
Kindness as a Sales Leader
-Maria had a QBR recently and realized that the team she’d hired was made up entirely of people she both wanted to grow and work with. Everyone is humble, focused, hardworking, and listens to the customer, thinking about each interaction from the customer lens.
Being Held Back by a Manager
-Get external mentors and surround yourself with people that are either in your current role or the role you want to be in and learn about their experiences.
-It also helps to have a peer to go to for a second opinion, otherwise known as a “sanity check”, about your situation.
Having It All
-It’s essential to build a village or network of people that will have your back both at work and in your personal life. Don’t be afraid to say “no” and trust your team will cover you.
Sharing
-Know both your audience and what you’re comfortable with sharing.
-There is a difference between oversharing and actually being vulnerable. Understand what’s motivating you to share. Are you truly trying to be honest and connect or are you crafting vulnerability to manipulate someone’s understanding of you.
Resources
-Reboot by Jerry Colonna
-I Want to Be in Sales When I Grow Up by John Barrows
Connect with Maria
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Ashleigh and Kasey discuss if the old adage holds up: should you avoid talking politics at work?
SHOW NOTES
Posting about Politics
-Whether or not it’s okay to post politically charged content on your social platforms depends heavily on your role, industry, and seniority level, but there is a rule of thumb Kasey sticks to - never post about politics on LinkedIn, that platform is for business and business only.
-If your company is vocal and takes a stand on a political issue, post about it if you’d like.
-Posting about charitable causes and volunteer work comes down to you and your personal values. If something is deeply important to you and you feel like you can’t speak publicly about it, change jobs.
-Ashleigh recommends getting a copy of the employee handbook and social media policies so that you know exactly what’s prohibited and allowed.
Pick Your Battles
-When you figure out what you're most passionate about, it becomes a lot easier to pick and choose your battles, because you never want to be the person that is constantly battling.
First Amendment Rights
-It’s important to know that talking about politics at a private employer is not protected speech. Employees can be fired for expressing political views that are contrary to what the company believes.
-Remember that this amendment protects your right to say whatever it is you want to say, but does not protect you from the consequences - you need to be willing to face the impact.
Politics is Sometimes Unavoidable
-The world isn’t a place where you can pretend like political events haven’t happened - think about the 2016 election - so the critical point to remember is that arguing with your colleagues about politics is not going to go anywhere positive.
Diversity of Thought
-If you work in an office environment that has a dominant viewpoint and they talk about their politics, it’s going to make the other side feel alienated and like they can’t express their opinions.
Have an Out
-Be able to recognize the signs of when you’re getting overwhelmed, frustrated, or angry and have an exit plan. When in doubt, excuse yourself and go to the bathroom.
Political Clothing
-It depends on what the piece of clothing is - the MAGA had should probably be avoided - but remember that you should never make someone the butt of your joke. Don’t make fun of people that have differing views.
Resources
-GitHub’s Partnership with ICE
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This week Ashleigh and Kasey interview Casey Jacox. After spending 20 years at Kforce where he became the all-time leading sales professional, Casey has launched Winning the Relationship, LLC and is working on publishing a book as well as starting a podcast for fathers, The Quarterback Dad Cast.
SHOW NOTES
Background
-Casey, Founder of Winning the Relationship, previously spent 20 years with Kforce as their all-time leading sales professional. His upcoming projects include publishing his book, Win the Relationship - Not the Deal, and his new podcast, The Quarterback Dad Cast.
Bro Culture
-Casey credits many things for steering him away from bro culture, but one of the most important was his role in football where it’s easiest to simply enter the game humble. This mindset has bled over into other facets of his life like his sales career.
Setting Boundaries
-After having his first child, he realized he needed more flexibility in his schedule and asked to work from 7am-4pm, fully shutting down from 5:15-7:15pm to be with family, and then coming back online to finish.
-By setting these boundaries he was able to be his best in his personal life, which in turn allowed him to be more focused and dedicated while at work.
Single Employer
-Sticking with a single employer is almost unheard of, but Casey put in 20 years at Kforce for a multitude of reasons including loving the company culture, benefits, large accounts, leadership, colleagues, and customers.
Being a Pusher
-It can be difficult to know how to get the best out of your team, but he advises asking questions and really knowing what their goals are so that you can remind them of what they want to accomplish.
-It doesn’t just end at that, be mindful that everyone has bad days, and be able to forgive as well as show that you trust them.
Building Relationships
-Being a good leader and building positive relationships is about making everyone feel like they are a part of the team and giving them the opportunity to try something they haven’t been given the chance to do before.
Diversity and Inclusion
-Diversity and inclusion was a big topic focused on at a leadership event Casey attended and after this discussion made him so much more self-aware. He walked away with a better understanding and perspective of what other people have gone through and his own privilege.
Income and Marriage
-Income as a sales professional isn’t steady. Some years are better than others and that can affect a relationship. But Casey’s wife has always been frugal and they came to the conclusion early on that they were going to always live below their means.
-He advises to never feel like you’ve arrived, because there is always something to be learned.
Therapy and Failure
-You don’t need a podcast to have deep and meaningful discussions. Find the opportunities to have those conversations with people that are going through similar things.
-So many people only talk about their successes, not what they’re scared of or where they’re vulnerable, but in reality talking about those things with someone is what builds a stronger bond. Knowing you have people to turn to for help makes you more resilient.
-Don’t rest on your laurels and always be learning.
Connect with Casey
-Winning the Relationship
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Kasey and Ashleigh have a theory - and they need your help to test it! Do you know any women who have risen to VP of Sales in 5 years or less? Your hosts can think of several men who have done it - but no women or people who identify as LGBTQ! Listen in as they discuss why this may be the case - then reach out and help them!
SHOW NOTES
Male Sales Leadership
-Kasey and Ashleigh can think of a handful of male sales leaders who, within a 5 year timeframe, rose the ranks to a VP level position, but can’t think of a single woman who’s story matches that.
Higher Base and Lower Commission
-Kasey has a colleague who’s trying to push leadership to adopt a higher base and lower commission for all sales roles. There’s less risk associated, so would women be more likely to apply and stay?
Potential vs. Results
-There is a ton of evidence that proves men are more often promoted based on their potential whereas women are promoted based on their results.
-If you look at Sales Hacker’s 35 Most Influential Women in Sales, the average time it took to become a VP was between 12 and 15 years. For most of the women it took between 2 to 3 years to be promoted to a manager or director level role and they stayed at that level for close to 10 years.
Software World
-From the outside, software seems to be less progressive and disciplined when it comes to diversity compared to other older industries. Let us know, how does the software world compare?
Effects
-If it takes women longer to get into leadership positions, there is a cascade effect. Over a woman’s lifetime they’ll make less and there are fewer women at the top advocating for others like them who are just starting their career.
Resources
-Potential vs. Results
-Sales Hacker’s 35 Most Influential Women in Sales
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Sunanda Nair, currently a Senior Account Executive at Privy, talks to Ashleigh and Kasey about her time working for nonprofits, the great management she received at her first sales position, and how to effectively network.
SHOW NOTES
Background
-Currently a Senior Account Executive at Privy, Sunanda fell into sales after working in marketing positions for various public health nonprofits. In search of a better salary and health insurance, she began applying for marketing positions at start-ups and after an interview was made an offer for a sales position.
Leadership
-She credits most of her success in this first sales role to her manager’s leadership style. He saw it as his job to serve his team and make them successful, creating an environment that was open to failure and asking for help.
Networking
-Don’t close yourself off from people or events if they’re not in the audience you currently sell to. If you find someone who you think is interesting, keep talking and asking questions because you never know where that connection could lead months or years down the line.
Nonprofits
-In her roles for public health nonprofits, Sunanda acquired a grit and ability to think on her feet that helped her when she eventually began in sales. Both fields are constantly changing and require you to be able to roll with the punches.
Listen to Your Gut
-Listening to your instinct is something that isn’t usually encouraged in the workplace, but if you see something potentially bad happening, understand that there are better opportunities out there.
Speaking Your Mind
-As a woman, it’s still not uncommon to receive backlash or be looked down upon for speaking your mind, but if you disagree with something really foundational, say it.
Diversity Initiatives
-The conversation around diversity in the workplace is much more active and honest that it was previously, but that also means company’s will simply say that they value diversity and not have anything to prove it. Actions speak louder than words.
Resources
-Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
Connect with Sunanda
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Today Ashleigh and Kasey talk about a key tool in every salespersons toolkit - their voice!
SHOW NOTES
Microphones
-A lot of people take calls on AirPods, don’t. Static, background noise, and pops are much more intense. Instead, get a headset with a designated microphone. Give yourself the chance to be heard clearly.
Pacing
-Try to mirror or match your pace to the pace of the person you’re talking to. One caveat to this is when someone’s trying to rush you, stay steady and measured.
-Pay attention to the pace of your elevator pitch and practice, practice, practice. Make sure it’s solid and paced well so that it’s easy to digest and people take you seriously.
-Taking your time communicates strength and confidence.
Take Care of Your Instrument
-Stay hydrated.
-Pay attention to any ailments like congestion, allergies, sore throat etc. and be sure to soothe them.
-Try drinking tea, lemon, and honey everyday.
Commitment
-Try warming up with tongue twisters, it’ll help to naturally slow you down and be deliberate in how you speak.
-Enunciate fully. Lean in to what you’re saying and how you’re saying it. Mumbling communicates a lack of confidence.
Trying New Things
-Conversations over the phone are naturally more muted and muddled because you lose physicality or body language as a communication channel. Try being a bit over the top to bring that energy into the phone call.
-So many of us communicate through our hands and the nice thing about having a headset is that your hands are then free to move.
-Never do sales calls in a phone booth, allow yourself to make mistakes loudly so that everyone around you can help. If you’re in an environment that doesn’t reward trying and learning from mistakes, it might be time to find a new one.
Resources
-Elizabeth Holmes
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Julia Andrews, the Founder and CEO of The Art of Feminine Selling as well as the Chapter President of the National Association of Women Sales Professionals delves into how she accidentally fell into a sales career, the discrimination she faced, and how she managed to always stay ahead of the game.
SHOW NOTES
Julia’s Background
-Currently the CEO of the Art of Feminine Selling as well as the Chapter President of the NAWSP (National Association of Women Sales Professionals), Julia’s second language is English and she began in sales as a teen selling cutlery door-to-door in order to help her family buy food after they immigrated to the United States.
-After a sale she began making small talk with the couple and the husband handed over his business card, offering her a job at Merrill Lynch.
Discrimination and Learning
-The man who had offered Julia the job had mentioned that he normally would never hire a community college student, let alone someone who had never attended college, however a lot more can be learned by hustling and going out trying to sell than in the university classroom.
-Sales culture might be hyper-competitive, but people love sharing their knowledge, it’s okay to ask for help and even rip off and duplicate what’s working for someone else.
Drive and Determination
-Julia considers herself lucky because of the desperation and need to succeed in sales because nothing else was then competing for her attention and she could focus solely on achieving at work.
-The top people in every field aren’t just the most talented, those people have the balance of talent and hard-work.
Failure
-There are times to make sure everyone is taking things seriously, but it’s extremely important to remind people that sales isn’t such a risk and if you mess up, it’ll all be okay. They’re not going to remember, you’re not going to remember, just keep moving forward.
-Growth comes out of doing what you’re afraid of and the first time doing anything is usually the scariest, but rest assured the more you do something the more competent and confident you’ll become so just dive in.
-When you’ve just started the stakes are low because no one’s really watching you and no one expects much because you haven’t built up a reputation, so fail while it’s still low risk.
Resources
-The Art of Feminine Selling
-NAWSP
-Heart and Sell by Shari Levitin
Connect with Julia
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
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Need to know the ins-and-outs of drinking at work or social events? Ashleigh and Kasey discuss the pros and, often career altering, cons of drinking with co-workers.
SHOW NOTES
What to do When Everyone’s Drinking
-Don’t underestimate the power of a sparkling water with lime.
-There are more people who choose to drink less or not drink at all, so don’t be afraid to say no.
-If you want to partake only a little, wait longer to begin drinking and then once you start, go slowly.
Drunk Decisions
-Some sales organizations have a really aggressive drinking culture, but understand that even if this is the case, it’s never okay to be drunk at a work event. Dumb drunk decisions can follow you the rest of your career.
-Be wary that it isn’t just about what you might do, it’s also about what other people might do to you.
-If you choose to drink, know your pace, how you react to various liquor, and what you’re drinking.
Saying “No”
-Know that you never have to justify choosing not to drink. A company culture that shames not drinking or drinking less is not normal. The idea of being sober by choice is increasingly common, so the chances of you getting unwanted pushback for not drinking is a lot smaller.
Speaking with Execs
-If you’re not comfortable around drinking culture, but that’s the only time you get to speak with executives, try asking them for a slot of time the next day for coffee. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but it’s important that your bosses are able to interact with you on terms that make you feel comfortable and safe.
HR and Reporting
-Be open to talking to your boss or HR when something happens that makes you uncomfortable. There are some situations where reporting makes sense and others where it doesn’t, but absolutely tell someone if something strange occurs.
Definition of a Work Event
-If a co-worker is present, watch yourself. People gossip and if there is anything you’re remotely worried about people knowing about you, don’t share it.
No One Owes You Anything
-Don’t be nosey. It’s not your business to know why someone isn’t drinking.
Buddy System
-Have an ally and watch out for each other. If you see something, say something.
-Ask for Angela. A lot of bars have adopted this method to help you get out of a potentially dangerous situation. Bartenders have also seen it all and can be your best friend, let them know if anything is weird is happening.
-If you have some sort of condition that you carry a form of ID with so that if something happens, responders know right away.
Kasey’s 3 Rules
-Never drink too much.
-Hydrate.
-Look out for your people.
Ashleigh’s 3 Rules
-Know your pace.
-Remember you owe nobody nothing.
-Don’t keep up with the Europeans.
Resources
-UNCrushed
-Alcoholics Anonymous
-Portland AA
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Martin MacArthur, an Account Executive at The Sales Developers, shares how being blind has affected his sales career and how he’s been able to cultivate such a strong network of sales professionals.
SHOW NOTES
Background and Being in Sales
-At the age of 7, Martin was diagnosed with Retinitis Pigmentosa, a disease that leads to loss of sight over time.
-He utilizes a screen reader, however most mainstream sales technology doesn’t work with it. While this puts him at a disadvantage, it has also forced him to focus on establishing strong connections with prospects.
Accessibility and Accommodation
-Accessibility isn’t something that’s often discussed in sales. As a part of his job, Martin attends many local networking events and has learned over time to be very transparent with each venue about the accommodations he requires.
Sales Calls
-Because he has lost one sense, others are heightened, so when he’s speaking to someone, he’s tuning into specific things that can get lost, like minor changes in tonality.
-Martin takes the first few minutes to set the tone of the conversation and build trust by really listening and being curious about the other person. The call then turns from being just another sales pitch, to an actual conversation.
Starting in Sales
-He worked for his parents’ grocery store while he was growing up, then went to university, got into business, and landed a job as a sales development rep at a small company in Ottawa.
Expanding and Maintaining Connection
-Naturally supportive, positive, and sincere, Martin doesn’t care so much about the quantity, but the quality of the connections he’s making. He tries to get to know each, reaching out consistently.
-You don’t need the perfect reason to reach out to someone, just thinking someone is interesting is reason enough.
Resources
Retinitis Pigmentosa
Outbound Sales, No Fluff
Fanatical Prospecting
Connect with Martin
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It’s weird, it’s strange, but at some point we should all learn to push ourselves to take risks and here’s why.
SHOW NOTES
Being the Outsider
-As an outsider on a team, there is a tendency to feel like you will be judged more harshly, for example, a woman feels like she has to meet 100 percent of the qualifications of a job opening, whereas a man will apply if he only meets 60 percent. Don’t wait until you’re sure you’ll knock it out of the park, you’ll miss out on a lot of really exciting opportunities.
Diving In
-Figuring something out as you go can be one of the most valuable experiences and risks that you take in your career. Take Richard Branson’s advice: “If somebody offers you an amazing opportunity but you are not sure you can do it, say yes - then learn how to do it later.”
Trust
-It can be really challenging to believe in yourself, but have faith in what you’re capable of, and don’t forget that you’re surrounded and supported by a network of people that are there to help.
Control, Luck, and Reflecting
-So much of our lives are not in our control, so it’s important to understand and reflect on how much of both your successes and failures are influenced by circumstances you don’t have power over.
Bouncing Back from Failure
-When you’re in a rut, get back to the fundamentals and set yourself up for small, easy wins rather than overwhelming yourself with the big picture.
Faking It
-Despite what a lot of people say, sales is not all instinctual. The best salespeople are the ones who have a great process and are constantly working to improve it.
Resources
-Masters of Scale: Airbnb’s Brian Chesky in Handcrafted
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Jon Selig, a comedy writing coach for sales and business professionals, gives us the rundown on how build better, longer-lasting corporate connections through laughter.
SHOW NOTES
What is Comedy Writing for Sales?
-Jon works with sales and business teams to pinpoint key challenges their prospects face, what the risks are of not addressing those challenges, and how to best turn those into a relatable joke to engage and stand out.
Know Your Audience
-A technology salesman for 12 years, and a standup comedian for 8, Selig’s dealt with all kinds of sales training and all kinds of audiences. The key to nailing your act in both environments, is knowing your audience and relating to them early on by connecting with what they’re struggling with.
-Steer clear of talking about gender, sexual orientation, religion, someone’s culture, and politics. Never speak poorly about marginalized groups, you’ll just look like a jerk, and never out someone’s personal information that was shared in privacy.
Morgue Humor is a Real Thing
-A joke about a bad experience is the sweet spot. Humor has the ability to show your prospect that you understand their problems and pain on such a deep level that you can both commiserate through laughter.
Finding the Confidence to be Funny
-The first step to being funny is expressing yourself. Get your thoughts out in the way that works best for you because the more you do that, the more you can analyze, reflect, and start seeing patterns.
-Test your jokes first by casually working them into conversations with your co-workers. If it falls flat, figure out why.
-Jon records his comedy sets, as a sales rep, you can record your conversations to study later on.
Embrace Failure and Be Resilient
-Don’t let the fear of failure or the terror of saying the wrong thing stop you. It will take a few tries to get the joke smoothed out and even if it doesn’t land, keep trying and practicing. Make it a goal to reduce failure with each iteration.
-It’s okay if they don’t laugh, just continue on like it doesn’t bother you, be resilient, just don’t take the time to explain the joke.
Resources
-Seth Godin - Linchpin: Are You Indispensable?
Connect with Jon
-Website
-Youtube
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/othersideofsales/message
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Whether you want to admit it or not, shoes have the power to change your whole demeanor. So when it comes to the office, are high heels too much, or just right?
SHOW NOTES
Background
-Ashleigh’s apprentice was starting in her first sales position and her boss told her to feel free to dress casually on her first day. She was disappointed because she feels more confident when she’s wearing heels.
What Do We Think?
-Wear the shoes that make you feel the most confident because confidence is everything in sales.
-With that being said, it’s always better to err on the side of formality.
Tips and Tricks
-Either carry or have back up professional and casual attire at the office.
-Don’t wear heels that you can’t walk in. Own what is the appropriate thing for you.
-Ashleigh breaks her shoes up into 3 categories: sitting shoes, standard shoes, and walking shoes.
Work Style and Personal Style
-Have your power shoes for the office, but be sure to draw a line between what you wear in the office, at home, and socially.
-Early on in your career you will have to do some testing to figure out what your office style is and that can take some time.
Where to Find Good Shoes for Work
-Nordstrom Rack
-Kasey’s favorite brands: Cole Haan, Sorel, Vans
-Ashleigh’s favorite brands: Vionic, Naturalizer
Traveling with Shoes
-Always opt for comfortable. You never know what’s going to happen and you don’t want to be miserable at the end of the day.
Resources
-Nordstrom Rack
-Cole Haan
-Sorel
-Vans
-Vionic
-Naturalizer
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Jaime Diglio, leadership coach and President of SomethingNew, talks to us about the benefits of change, being a woman in sales, and how to be an empowering leader.
SHOW NOTES
Selling Through Change
-Jaime’s current work encouraging the embrace of change as something positive builds off of her previous experience shifting the direction of both Gartner’s and Microsoft’s growth and development.
Being a Woman in Sales
-The way men and women think complement each other and bring different valuable perspectives to the workplace, so teams that are a combination of both are stronger.
-It is essential that leaders shift the way they communicate with men and women because they listen, process, and react differently and require different coaching.
Moods and Interpretation
-As a boss, it is crucial to be aware of the mood you present because the people around you notice and it affects them and how they work.
-A 2011 study examined judicial rulings in parole cases, exhibiting that judges were much more lenient at the beginning of the day and right after taking a break. We are all affected by extraneous factors and applying our own interpretation to every situation which is why transparency as a boss is beneficial.
How To Be An Amazing Leader
-Hire people for their strengths that add something new and different to the team.
-Understand what drives each individual.
-Continuously tell your employees that you believe in them.
-Build your network and get a trusted outside perspective to develop your leadership ability.
-Understand what your leadership philosophy is.
Coaching the New Generation and the Importance of Connection
-Technological advancement has transformed training and coaching new hires into a much more detached experience. While a lot of the training process can be more automated, coaching needs to include face to face engagement for better connection.
-The next generation isn’t lazy and entitled, they are hungry for training, they just don’t know how to access it.
-The people are the most important part of a business, in such a saturated market the only way to differentiate yourself is through your people and their ability to create a great customer experience, which will only happen if they have a great model set before them.
Collaborative Learning and Culture Bubbles
-As the leader, announce each of your employee’s strengths and ask them to show that to the rest of the team to foster a culture of collaborative and constant learning, not simply giving away answers.
-If you don’t have a manager that inspires this culture and environment, initiate it.
Dealing With A Hostile Environment at Work
-Build your outside network by connecting to people that you admire, that inspire you, and that believe in the same thing as you.
Resources
-Parole Study
-“The story I am making up…” - Brené Brown
-Quiet Leadership by David Rock
Connect With Jaime
-SomethingNew
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Ashleigh and Kasey talk about how to survive sick days when your paycheck is tied to showing up.
SHOW NOTES
Determining the Necessity of a Sick Day
-Am I in the right state of mind to get anything done?
-Am I contagious? Contagious is generally defined as a fever over 100 degrees and a cough.
Respect your Colleagues
-Sales teams rely on each other and if everybody gets sick, it’s really difficult to make that time up.
-Other people in your office may have conditions that warrant a compromised immune system, so be aware and don’t put their health in jeopardy.
A Sick Day is Necessary, Now What?
-Tell your boss, do not ask for permission, and do not feel the need to justify or apologize. You are guaranteed the right to take a sick day, however whether you or not you will be paid for sick days is up to your employer.
-If you see a doctor, get a sick note just in case.
-Set appropriate expectations for the amount of time needed before you return, it is always better to come back sooner than expected than to need additional time off.
-Communicate with anyone affected by your leave to update them on everything that needs to be covered.
-Be prepared for needing unexpected time off work by having a documented process. This makes life a lot easier in numerous instances that include being sick, going on vacation, or training a new hire.
Taking Time Off Can Be Scary
-It’s easy to feel disposable if everything goes smoothly while you’re away, but rest assured that no one will see it that way, it’s more a sign of you being a great leader.
The Ball Was Dropped
-Do not make excuses, a simple apology and note that something will get done right away will do.
-The Eisenhower Decision Matrix essentially places all activities into one of two categories, important or urgent. Prioritize what is most urgent first and then get to the other important tasks.
Communicating With Your Boss and Colleagues
-You are protected by law from disclosing any information beyond the fact that you are unable to work for medical reasons. The general consensus is that it’s better to disclose less than more.
Getting Back Into the Swing of Things
-Kasey advises saving boring or busy work for the end of your time off to ease your way back into working without taxing yourself.
Resources
-First Opinion
-Teladoc
-MDLIVE
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We talk to Tim Clarke, President & Cofounder of UNCrushed, about his experience in sales and how he’s on a mission to bring awareness to mental health issues in the sales industry.
SHOW NOTES
UNCrushed Background
-Mental illness is an international issue that is surrounded by stigma and usually a topic to be avoided in the workplace environment. UNCrushed is a platform and community for people to share their experiences and create awareness.
Tim’s Story
-Tim delves into the trauma he experienced dealing with mental illness, as well as his unhealthy coping mechanisms, and how work became a way of ignoring the issue.
Suffering in Silence
-Whether it has to do with stigma based on geography, familial values, individual perceptions, or a closed-off work culture, there are so many challenges that make it difficult to speak about mental illness.
Coping and Getting Past It
-Tim not only focused on sobriety, but also on finding a way to love himself, be vulnerable, and create connections as he worked towards recovery.
Cultivating a Safe Space at Work
-Priorities, repercussions for time off, setting boundaries, and the problem with “happy hour culture” are all discussed.
Cultural Shift and Diversity
-Mindfulness and mental health have become major discussions over the past few years.
-No one is alone in their fight against mental illness.
Resources
-Suicide Prevention Lifeline
-AFSP
-UNCrushed
-Brené Brown: The Power of Vulnerability
-Brené Brown: Listening to Shame
-Dan Harris: Ten Percent Happier
-Ten Percent Happier Podcast
-Austin Eubanks: What the Columbine Shooting Taught Me About Pain and Addiction
-The Challenger Customer
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Since we say we're a podcast for the "Non-Sales Bro," it's time to start by defining what that is!
SHOW NOTES
What Does a Sales Bro Look Like?
-Sales bros can be found wearing a vest that is probably from Patagonia, along with a pair of Allbirds and are typically white, male, and a college grad.
How Does a Sales Bro Behave?
-The overarching behavioral characteristic is their selfishness and constant, inane competitiveness. These both result in a negative “quantity over quality” mentality.
Why is This Detrimental?
-This mentality leads to resistance, on the sales bro’s part, to ask for help or listen to others, because they want to keep up the facade of consistently “crushing it” solo. The reality is that sales is a team sport and it can be extremely lucrative to care more about buyer needs.
Sales in the Media
-Sales has been in massive transition, particularly in the past ten years, and the media has yet to catch up. Films like “Glengarry Glen Ross” or “The Wolf of Wall Street” portray the sales bro as the epitome of the sales professional, which isn’t the case.
-Look to films like “The Pursuit of Happyness” or “Tommy Boy” for positive examples.
Are Sales Bros All Bad?
-Every great sales professional likely has a little sales bro in them but is able to balance this with other characteristics, like empathy.
The Importance of Diversity
-There is no one way to sell, and finding your own method is the way to succeed. This is the same when it comes to leadership, as good leaders find the best way to motivate each individual.
Resources
-Patagonia Logo Vest
-Why Workplace Diversity Is So Important
-Key and Peele: Black Republicans
-Glengarry Glen Ross
-The Wolf of Wall Street
-The Pursuit of Happyness
-Tommy Boy
-Corporate Bro Comedy Sketches
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In our inaugural interview, we're thrilled to have Rachel Biers of Bevy Labs.
SHOW NOTES
Upbringing
-Rachel Biers was born in Japan and lived abroad for the majority of her childhood due to her parent’s work - first as journalists with a focus in Asia, then as diplomats. She attributes the importance she places on community, and her ability to adapt quickly, to her upbringing.
Community in the Workplace
-In terms of sense of community, there is a big difference between joining a company and moving up in management. When Rachel began her career in sales at Oracle she was joined by 450 other recent college grads who were going through the same experience. As she moved up in management, however, she found it to be a very lonely job. To counteract this she built relationships not only with her team, but with other departments.
Balancing Professionalism with Camaraderie as a Manager
-It is important that while professional separation exists, there is also the sense that each team member knows that the manager cares about them on a personal level as well. The ability to empathize with and adapt to an employee’s individual needs is a key component to being a strong leader.
Self Improvement and Self Care
-Whether it’s through reading, listening to podcasts, or traveling, aiming for personal growth and development is never a bad idea. The little improvements made everyday add up to create big change.
Being an LGBTQ Person in the Workplace
-Being an LGBTQ person is a big part of Rachel’s identity that she was still working to understand as she entered the professional world. She felt an immense pressure to fit in and hide that portion of herself, which negatively impacted her work. This experience taught her a lot about being an outsider, and helped develop her empathy and listening skills.
-Her advice to managers on creating a safe space is to not assume anything, use gender neutral terms, and instill all of this in the rest of the team. She also advises that anyone contemplating whether or not to be out at work should understand their legal rights, which can be based on location and company policy.
Resources
-Brenè Brown: Dare to Lead
-Chris Voss: Never Split the Difference
-Out in Tech
-Lesbians Who Tech
-PDXWIT
-WIT
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Welcome to the other side of sales! In our first episode we discuss our origin story and what to expect from us as we begin this journey to highlight the "non sales bros" who are pushing the profession forward.
SHOW NOTES
What is Our Origin Story?
-Ashleigh discovered podcasts in late 2018, and in her search for great professional sales podcasts she found the market was almost entirely dominated by white male hosts.
-Kasey had been contacted to be featured in a book composed of interviews from top sales leaders, but as she looked through the list of the other professionals participating, she realized it was practically all white males.
-Ashleigh reached out to Kasey and the rest is history.
What Are We Doing?
-We want to provide a platform for the “non-sales bro”, in other words, the non-traditional sales professionals.
-Half of the podcast will be devoted to interviewing these people that don’t fit the typical sales mold and the other half will be devoted to Ashleigh and Kasey digging into issues that are not typically discussed, publicly.
-This isn’t about providing solutions or answers, but about cultivating a community and an ongoing dialogue.
How Can You Get Involved?
-To share topics you want us to discuss or people you want us to interview, simply fill out our nomination form!
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