Data & Dev with Jon and Mel: Recent Episodes
Data & Dev with Jon and Mel
Two friends from elementary school kick off this tech podcast (because we need another one), aimed primarily at career changers seeking to level up quickly in the field of tech, but in the midst of the responsibilities of adult life.
Jon is an academic turned start-up guy with Data Science expertise.
Melissa is a mid-life career changer, pursuing a second career as a Software Engineer first via a Bootcamp and currently as a CS Master's student at UPenn.
Headed your way:
Tech concepts explained so a 10-year-old can understand and lots of lame analogies.
S3E1:
Asking the hard questions.
In this episode we touch on all of the following.
Business context:
using AI to replicate a business.
aiding project management workflows
Chain of thought techniques with LLMs
AI taking jobs
Risks of automation
Lawyer big oops using ChatGPT
AI to complete tasks:
Robot burger flippers
Robotics to take over more dangerous jobs to protect people
Prompt Engineering
New Roles that will develop as a result of technological advancements
If lower level jobs are automated, where do teenagers go for teenage jobs?
Speed of technological advancements
ChatGPT & writing code
Throwback - hardware restrictions on original NES
You can also find us on YouTube
--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/data-and-dev/message
What to expect from Season 3 of Data and Dev!
--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/data-and-dev/message
A follow-up on our previous compilation, our season 2 guests share more advice on working in the tech industry as well as some role specific advice.
You can also leave us a voice message with feedback on this, or any of our episodes here.
The voiced you here in order:
Brenda Moss
Kexin Xie
Nikhil Maddirala
Tim Chung Emily Morgan Mat Fournier Rocco Basalmo
Vic Vijayakumar
Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/data-and-dev/message
Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/data-and-dev/message
Hear from our season 2 guests on advice for just starting out and what they wish they knew when starting their career in tech.
You can also leave us a voice message with feedback on this, or any of our episodes here.
The voiced you here in order:
Brenda Moss
Daniel Vassallo
Emily Morgan
Mat Fournier
Nikhil Maddirala
Rocco Basalmo
Tim Chung
Vic Vijayakumar
Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/data-and-dev/message
If you work in tech long enough, you will eventually break prod, drop a database, have a major work miscommunication, or any number of other mistakes that feel horrific at the moment but provide you with stories to share that elicit both laughter and horror from your hearer.
Our season 2 guests share some of their worst work mistakes in this compilation episode.
Leave us a voice message with your feedback.
Enjoy hearing from:
Emily Morgan
Daniel Vassallo
Mat Fournier
Nikhil Maddirala
Vic Vijayakumar
Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/data-and-dev/message
Hear our Season 2 guests answer the question, 'Advice for handling interview nerves.'
This compilation episode recaps those prior conversations in the following order:
Daniel Vassallo
Mat Fournier
Brenda Moss
Kexin Xie
Nikhil Maddirala
Rocco Basalmo
Vic Vijayakumar
Trish Do
Tim Chung
Emily Morgan
Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/data-and-dev/message
To cap off Season 2, Jon and I spoke to what many might consider a tech success story. Daniel Vassallo is no stranger to tech Twitter, but in case he is a new name to you, Daniel is a former Amazon Software Engineer who now makes a living with a portfolio of small bets. He made his way to Seattle by way of Ireland, working for 7 years at Amazon before leaving the corporate world for the freedom of self-employment. I (Melissa) love Daniel's story, largely because I long to replicate his portfolio of small bets approach to work.
This was a wonderful conversation. I appreciate Daniel's transparency and authenticity. Have a listen to hear:
- Daniel's path into amazon
- Correspondence college, long before remote schooling was a thing
- The interview process
- Navigating coding challenges over the phone -- these were pre-Zoom/Skype/Facetime days!
- Moving from Ireland to Seattle
- How his role and job scope changed over time
- Salary numbers over time
- The process of self-reflection through his time at Amazon
- Leaving amazon to pursue a portfolio of small bets
Whether your goal is to work in tech for 30 years, or grind for 5 with an eye on early retirement, Daniel is worth a follow. The best place to connect is on Twitter
--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Kexin's story is a great demonstration that sometimes building a career in tech is more about seeing and taking the opportunities placed before you rather than having a pre-planned series of steps to follow. In this episode we talked about:
- Intro and College in Australia
- Freelancer
- Learning in Industry
- Machine Learning at scale
- Distributed Computing
- Hiring for Distributed Computing roles
- Culture: China, Australia, USA
- Role of Software Architect
- Advice on finding the first role
- Closing Questions
You can find and follow Kexin on LinkedIn, Twitter and Github
--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Get to know your podcast hosts. After interviewing a dozen or so amazing technologists, Jon and I figured it might be good to interview each other! We flip the script, and ask each other questions about how we got into tech. Hands down, being the interviewer is far easier than being the interviewee.
Tune in for:
Jon
College and getting into ML
Microsoft, Krux, and Salesforce
Leading ML at Spectrum Labs
Closing Questions for Jon
Mel
From Wharton to MCIT
Flexibility in contracting in industry
Finding your own path and pace
Closing questions
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Nikhil pursued a career in Product Management through the route of an MBA. In this conversation we talk about whether an MBA is required for a PM career, traits that make for a good PM, and more. Listen in to hear:
Life at Adobe
Role of Product Manager
Squashing Bugs vs New Features
PM/Eng org structure
Decision making
Traits for a PM
Is an MBA required?
Interview advice
Product Manager vs. Project Manager
What does a PM career path look like?
Connect with Nikhil via LinkedIn
Notes from Nikhil on Compensation:
"Couple of notes on the compensation figures. Firstly, the numbers on levels.fyi are heavily skewed towards SF Bay Area where salaries are much higher than the rest of the USA. Secondly, these numbers refer to total compensation, which includes both fixed compensation (i.e. base salary) and variable compensation (i.e. bonus and equity). With each increasing level of seniority, variable compensation accounts for a larger percentage of total compensation. At my level at Meta variable comp is roughly 40% of my total comp, at the manager level it is roughly 60%, and at the director level and above variable comp is 80%+ of total comp. Variable compensation varies significantly based on individual performance, the company's performance, and overall stock market performance. For example, in the first half of 2022 Meta's stock value dropped by over 50%, leading to a significant decrease in employee compensation across the board."
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Rocco started his career in the game industry. He shares the good, and the bad, of that area of tech, his experience as an entrepreneur, and how he ended up at Meta. In this episode we cover:
Started in gaming
Moved to CA
Gliffy, diagraming software
Imposter Syndrome, life-long learning
His company, simmer.io
Working at Meta
How you 'fit' with a company
Connect with Rocco via LinkedIn or his personal website
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Brenda has taken a circuitous route into Software Engineering. She served her country in the Air Force before leaving active duty to be at home with her children. She eventually chose to re-enter the workforce via Software and opted to pursue a Master's degree to that end. Brenda's story is a great one. Tune in to hear:
-
ROTC route into the Air Force.
-
Life as a Space Operations Officer in the air force
-
Leaving active duty and going reserves to raise children
-
Recruiting role with Air Force Academy and ROTC
-
Funding undergraduate studies with ROTC
-
Re-entering the workforce - thought process and plan
-
Deciding where to gain a software education
-
Penn MCIT program
-
Strengths and weaknesses of the MCIT program
-
Resources for military folks to get into tech
-
MSSA program
-
The job hunt
-
Life as a new Microsoft engineer
-
Onboarding
-
Imposter syndrome
Connect with Brenda via LinkedIn
Learn about the MSSA program Brenda talked about.
And find a Vets In Tech group near you!
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
We chat with Gatsby recruiter, Trish Do, and gain some insider info on the tech recruiting process.
You can connect with Trish on LinkedIn
Show Highlights:
- Transition from education to tech recruiting
- Potential pitfalls in the initial screen
- What is the recruiter looking for in that initial screening?
- The importance of knowing your personal values and goals in evaluating potential companies and roles
- Advice to excel in the technical screen
- Mistakes made after receiving an offer
- Handling the “what salary are you looking for?” question
- What question should you always ask in the initial phone screen?
- Red flags to look out for
If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review or share with a friend!
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
This was a great conversation with Vic Vijayakumar. We covered MANY topics, including:
- Importance of hobbies outside of work
- Job titles across companies
- What “good” onboarding looks like for a Junior Engineer
- How Vic got into programming
- Computer Engineering vs. Computer Science as a major
- Gaining an intuition about code
- Looking at Software engineering less as “the tech industry” and more about using technology to help enable people to do the things they want to do
- Helping researchers communicate about their work
- Picking a language that is most appropriate for the job at hand
- How to get up to speed in a new language
- Skills gained in the early years of a career
- How learning on the side can help one’s career
- Compensation over Vic’s career
- Manager vs. IC role
- Founding Engineer role
- Handling interview nerves
- Talking in interviews
- Work mistake - causing email spam
- Importance of networking through meetups, or even Reddit
- Ways to test whether software engineering is for you
You can find Vic on his own webpage as well as on Twitter and LinkedIn.
Take a listen to Vic's podcast here.
We talked about finding salary data at Levels.fyi
And "trying out" programming, which you can do at Codecademy.
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Prety early into Tim's professional career, he opted to change directions. He enrolled in a Master's program and ended up in Data Science.
In this episode we talk about:
- Tim's background as a business major and his first role as a software implementation consultant role
- The epiphany that led to a desire for a more data-specific role
- Misconceptions of what a career in tech would look like
- Accessibility of learning today
- Choosing where to study to make the shift into data science
- MCIT and Georgia Tech programs
- Finding that first role in Data Science
- Gatekeeping in Data Science
- Data Science at Ad Astra
- Career goals
- Tools used for the job
You can follow Tim on LinkedIn
Check out the programs Tim mentioned:
Master of Science in Analytics @ Georgia Tech
MCIT @ UPenn
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
This was another great conversation. I know I say that every time, but it seems to always be true.
Emily and I (Melissa) crossed paths 5 years ago at Flatiron School. Our careers have taken different trajectory paths since then and this conversation was a chance to both catch up as well as to get her full story of going from English Professor to Frontend Engineer.
We cover:
- Choosing the route of academia
- Work as a college English professor
- “Trying out” programming
- Flatiron Bootcamp
- First role at Pendo
- Onboarding as a brand new engineer
- The Bootcamp path
- Growing from an entry-level frontend engineer to a senior engineer
- The value of meetups and forming relationships within the industry
Two great places to "try it out" are:
Codecademy
LaunchSchool
To follow Emily's GoodReads recommendations, head here.
Connect with Emily on LinkedIn
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
This was a great conversation with a former Geological Engineer turned Software Developer. Mat is a Canadian who recently took advantage of the shift to remote work. He's enjoying the good life with a slower pace of life, outside of the city. Mat talks about his background in his former career. The impetus to make a switch. Going back to school for Data Science before landing on Software. Mat found his niche in the Scala community and makes his living writing mostly functional code.
You can connect with Mat on Twitter at @mat4nier
Here's the article Mat references: The Rent Versus Buy of Career Growth
Mat' was featured in "Real" Engineering vs. Software Development
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
We're back for Season 2. Here is what's coming...
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
We covered quite a bit in Season 1. For some "Go Deeper" resource suggestions for each topic, check the notes below.
Episode 1: How email travels
- Differences between POP3 and IMAP - GeeksforGeeks
- SMTP or IMAP: What’s the Difference? Bonus: What is POP3?
Episode 2: OSI model. Internet
- Network Engineer Specialization: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/computer-communications
- The first course is relevant here: https://www.coursera.org/learn/fundamentals-network-communications?specialization=computer-communications
- GeeksforGeeks article: Layers of OSI Model - GeeksforGeeks
- Cloudflare: What is the OSI Model? | Cloudflare
- Youtube Series: Network Fundamentals by Network Direction channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNwEVYkx2Kk&list=PLDQaRcbiSnqF5U8ffMgZzS7fq1rHUI3Q8
- Computer Networking book
Episode 3 & 4; Interview with Marwan Fayed (Cloudflare)
- Marwan Fayed Twitter
- Marwan research
- Marwan Cloudflare blog
- Computerphile TLS video
- Wikipedia has a good write up
- Cloudflare write up
Episode 5: TCP/IP
- Cloudflare - article
- FreeCodeCamp - article
- Coursera specialization
- Book: TCP/IP Illustrated
Episodes 6 & 7: Interview with Aaron Blum and Raphael Poss (Cockroach Labs)
- Cockroach Labs University
- Aaron
- Raphael
- NoStarchPress: has many great books
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Show Notes
Security is about tradeoffs
Security is a business decision
Product and Security persons need to understand each other. The correct solution depends on understanding how a user is interacting with your platform
New risks in cloud databases
Traffic to databases is now over the internet
Users care about confidentiality and predictability
New role: database programmers now need to build security controls.
Reliability concerns are security concerns
Any potential malfunction is a security concern
Support engineers: new dimensions. How much access do they need to provide the needed support vs. how much access is a customer comfortable providing to receive that support
Entryways into security route
-
If not already working in security domain: find anything security adjacent
-
exploit exercises
Step out of your comfort zone
Software engineers are not coming with a security background. The way to bridge this gap is from an analysis mentality.
Ask ‘what if…’
Program defensively. Expect errors and program to handle those errors
Records of truth vs. support systems. Technologies that are used on their own vs support other technologies
Location of data concerns
Sharding
Location agnostic: Serverless
Raphael on how to develop, find and create opportunities to a security path
Learn more about our guests.
Cockroach Labs:
Aaron Blum:
Previous interview: Database Security Capabilities of CockroachDB
Raphael Poss
Writings
Personal webpage
Capture the flag:
CTF 101
AT&T Capture the flag
Books:
No Starch Press
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
What's on the agenda!?
- Intro
- Databases security focuses on warehouse data, keep save and available. (Aaron)
- How did Aaron get into security
- What does a security career trajectory look like
- What does Aaron do at security
- The joys of ‘beeper duty'
- Generalist vs. Specialist approach to tech
- Formal degree vs. self study for a career in security
- The importance of deep understanding
- The “tinkerers mind"
- White route and black route options for self study
- What is your background: both Aaron and Raphael
- High level of software vulnerabilities that leak information
- Decisions taken when creating software often have unintended
- Happy path doesn't lead to happily ever after
- Solution oriented approach vs. analytic approach
- Three skills needed for analytic approach
- Ticket driven work
Learn more about our guests. Cockroach Labs
Aaron * Previous interview: Database Security Capabilities of CockroachDB * LinkedIn
Raphael * LinkedIn * Writings * Personal webpage
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Jon and Mel talk about what TCP and IP are. How they work. And why they are important.
Show notes:
Intro
Traffic rules and Internet rules
Terms du jour: 3-way handshake, encapsulation, in order delivery, reliability, flow control
What does TCP stand for and what is its job?
What does IP stand for and what is its job?
Lego masterpieces to send data over internet
Furniture Manufacturer analogy
How does 3-way handshake work?
How does TCP ensures reliable and in-order delivery
IP - what it does and how it does it?
IP utilizes encapsulation
Routing tables
Road trips and Internet routing
TCP/IP have survived since the beginning of the internet
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Tune in for the second half of our interview with Marwan! You won't be disappointed.
Show notes:
The resilience of TCP/IP - how have they survived this long?
The evolving of TCP/IP
About the IP layer
-
addressing
-
routing and forwarding
-
but no guarantee
UDP - “best effort"
TCP layer
-
reliability / guaranteed delivery
-
flow control
-
congestion control
TCP fairness
TCP & congestion control in streaming video
About Marwan
Professional mistake: looking for shortcuts
Advice to someone just starting in tech
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Our first interview of the season.
The accomplished and ever so humble, Marwan Fayed, joins us today.
Find him at St. Andrews or at Cloudflare.
Timstamps:
0:00 - Intro
1:56 - Interview; Marwan Introduction
2:16 - Role at Cloudflare
4:25 - Community Broadband ISP
5:56 - Industry vs. Academia
7:08 - Day to Day at current role
8:56 - What does an industry lab look like?
10:45 - Security and Privacy research prioritized at Cloudflare
11:31 - What is TLS 1.3
14:26 - Research at Cloudflare
15:09 - Oblivious DNS over HTTPS (ODOH)
17:56 - More on privacy
21:51 - Where does a research idea come from
23:41 - Humility matters in research
25:37 - 2 guiding principles of research
26:11 - Marwan’s lightbulb moment
30:31 - Overlap between reserach and business
31:21 - Community Broadband ISP
33:56 - “No one gets fired for hiring IBM”
36:21 - Backhaul internet
41:06 - Biggest challenges were people, not technology
43:25 - Goodbye
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Jon and Mel dive into the question of the day: "When I open the weather app on my phone, how do today's weather get my screen, and where did it come from?
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:18 - Question of the day
1:48 - Defining the endpoints? Client and Server
2:43 - Mental picture for information traveling across internet: Skateboard ramp. Swimming pool
5:00 - Defining some terms: client and server
5:36 - Defining request and response
6:28 - Everything is binary
7:53 - Application Layer
8:55 - Physical layer
10:33 - Defining a 'session’
11:00 - Transport layer. TCP
12:00 - Network layer. IP.
12:44 - Each layer is distinct and independent
14:05 - What type of requests can I make?
16:55 - Looking at the POST and GET requests
18:00 - Packets
20:45 - TCP & IP roles
21:40 - Each device has its own IP address
22:40 - Review of the path of a request from client to server
23:40 - Short hops along the path
25:30 - More about packets and network layers
26:30 - Encapsulation
29:00 - Terms for the data at different network layers
29:45 - Real-time routing
31:20 - Internet travel is like note passing in class
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Question for the day: "When I send an email, how does that email get from my email to yours?”
Timestamps
0:00 - Intro
0:35 - Post office analogy
2:20 - Post office to email connection
3:10 - Computer 'client' and ‘server’
4:05 - Addressing an email
9:00 - Email messages get broken up into packets
13:35 - DNS: Turning an email address into an IP address
16:00 - DNS servers; the phone book of the internet
20:30 - SMTP server; local post office. Email journey is email server to email server.
25:45 - Role of MTA
29:30 - Gateways: "highway” part of the information super highway.
31:10 - How SMTP deals with lost information
33:20 - There is no umpire for the internet
34:38 - Recap and preview for Episode 2
Terms you will hear and learn include:
Router, gateway, MTA, IP addresses, DNS, Client and Server, Packets
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message
Two friends from elementary school kick off this tech podcast (because we need another one), aimed primarily at career changers seeking to level up quickly in the field of tech, but in the midst of the responsibilities of adult life.
Jon is an academic turned start-up guy with Data Science expertise.
Melissa is a mid-life career changer, pursuing a second career as a Software Engineer first via a Bootcamp and currently as a CS Master's student at UPenn.
Headed your way:
Tech concepts explained so a 10-year-old can understand and lots of lame analogies.
Learn from analogy and learn from experts.
We pair the theoretical with the practical as we have about how these topics are thought about in industry.
I can't wait!
Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/data-and-dev/message