Evolving Prisons: Recent Episodes
Kaigan Carrie
On this podcast I interview people from around the world who have experience of working or being incarcerated in prison. We discuss the challenges faced by both prison staff and incarcerated individuals, and ways we can improve prisons so they become places of growth and transformation. Studies have shown that prison officers are likely to die much younger than the general population and that they are at higher risk of heart problems, divorce, PTSD, depression and suicide, and 95% of incarcerated people will be released one day, so improving prisons benefits everybody.
This is episode 6 of a special 6-part series exploring the mental toll frontline professionals carry as they do vital work to protect all of us.
Sean McCallum is a crisis intervention and trauma consultant, and a watch manager in the UK fire service where he's served for 23 years. In this episode, Sean shares his view on why some experiences are traumatic for some individuals but not others, what might cause flashbacks and rumination, and how sleep - or lack there of - can shape how we process trauma.
Sean is not a clinician. His perspective comes from a person-centred metapsychological approach.
Connect with Kaigan Carrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is episode 5 of a special 6-part series exploring the mental toll frontline professionals carry as they do vital work to protect all of us.
Lea Vaughan was a Hazardous Area Response Team paramedic and one of only three medics to treat victims inside the arena during the Manchester Arena bombing in 2017 - the largest casualty she'd ever faced. In this episode, Lea reflects on the night of the attack and the lasting psychological impact. She speaks about the lack of support she received afterwards and the unexpected public backlash she faced, including death threats, as a visible face of the ambulance service.
Connect with Kaigan Carrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is episode 4 of a special 6-part series exploring the mental toll frontline professionals carry as they do vital work to protect all of us.
Craig Wylde became a prison officer in 2006. Just four years later, at the age of 28, he was stabbed by a prisoner and left with life-changing injuries that forced his medical retirement. In this episode, Craig speaks about the attack and the long, painful process of coming to terms with a new reality. He speaks about the mental toll of the trauma and how, at his lowest point, he contemplated taking his own life.
Connect with Kaigan Carrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is episode 3 of a special 6-part series exploring the mental toll frontline professionals carry as they do vital work to protect all of us.
Philip Ingram MBE joined the British Army in 1984 and served until 2010, leaving as a colonel. In this episode, he reflects on several difficult moments during his career, particularly his time during the Iraq war in Basra. He speaks about the trauma of losing a close friend, of having to read autopsy reports of soldiers who died, and witnessing distressing images of a helicopter being shot down. He shares the ways in which his mental health was impacted, to the point he carried a suicide kit around with him for years.
Connect with Kaigan Carrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is episode 2 of a special 6-part series exploring the mental toll frontline professionals carry as they do vital work to protect all of us.
Wayne Campbell joined the police service in Northern Ireland in 2004 and spent much of his career as a detective, including overseeing the family liaison response for some of the country’s most devastating incidents - from homicides and fatal road accidents to mass casualty events. In this episode, Wayne tells us about two of the most defining and harrowing experiences of his career: being attacked by a loyalist terrorist group, and flying to America to tell a mother that her daughter had taken her own life after being targeted online by a man later convicted of child sexual abuse offences.
Connect with Kaigan Carrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is episode 1 of a special 6-part series exploring the mental toll frontline professionals carry as they do vital work to protect all of us.
James Bull has been a firefighter for 25 years. In 2017, he made the brave decision to speak publicly about his experience of PTSD - a step that led to a three-year journey with a documentary film crew, capturing the mental health realities of the emergency services. In this episode, James tell us about two of the most psychologically difficult incidents of his career: a fatal road accident where he feared one of the casualties was his brother, and attending an incident that involved his own mum’s death. He reflects on how the job has shaped and changed him, and what it’s like to carry the toll of this job with him.
Connect with Kaigan Carrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Ray and Vi Donovan's son, Chris, was murdered in 2001. They made the extraordinary decision to meet all three of his killers through restorative justice. They tell us about the heartbreak of losing Chris, navigating the justice system and how it felt meeting each of the three boys responsible.
Explore the work Ray and Vi are doing through the Chris Donovan Trust.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is the 100th episode of the podcast! Thank you for listening and supporting these conversations.
Sarah Ellis is a barrister and forensic criminologist with a particular interest and specialism in coercive control, stalking and homicide. She explains the concept of the homicide timeline and how coercive control can escalate over time. Why is coercive control still so often misunderstood or overlooked? What needs to change in the way we intervene? And why do perpetrators of coercive control rarely change?
Learn more about the homicide timeline here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Rob McKeon has sat on the parole board in England & Wales since 2012. He's reviewed the cases of over 5,000 prisoners, making decisions on whether they are ready to be released, including those convicted of murder, serious violence and sexual offences. We discuss the biggest signs that a prisoner might be ready to re-enter society, how some prisoners try to sabotage each other’s chances of release, and the emotional weight of making decisions that can change lives forever.
You can purchase a copy of Rob's book, Parole, here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Will Potter is an award winning investigative journalist and author. He delivered a Ted talk about secret prisons in America which received millions of views. We chat about these prisons, called communication management units, how Will was able to enter one and the psychological toll that his work as a journalist has taken on him.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Dr Shahed Yousaf is a GP who works in prison and with the homeless community in England. How is healthcare adapted to reach those without a fixed address? How does he navigate working with imprisoned patients who'd be better served in a mental health facility? What are some of the most surprising things he's seen in prison? And what personal toll has prison work taken on him?
You can buy a copy of Dr Yousaf's book, Stitched Up, here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Paul Cosgrove is a former investment banker who later became a prison officer. He tells us about his experiences working with prisoners convicted of financial crimes, the attitude some of these individuals had towards their crimes, some of the most challenging things Paul has had to deal with and how transitioning from investment banking to prison work changed his views on materialism and success.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Recorded live, this episode features two prison officers who have worked in one of the UK's first community custody units for women. They share their experiences of transitioning from a male high-security prison in Scotland to working in a facility built on the belief that women should be imprisoned in more trauma-informed, community-like conditions. We speak about the contrasts between working in these vastly different establishments, their views on staff corruption, some of the difficult things they've both had to deal with, and how the job has changed them.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Ian West served 35 years in the prison service in England, working in ten prisons and governing four. He tells us about the special secure unit of HMP Belmarsh where he worked with some of the highest-risk prisoners in the country, the difficulties of changing the thinking of some elderly prisoners and what it was like to govern a prison through the Covid-19 pandemic.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Dr Rebecca Myers was a forensic and prison psychologist in England treating prisoners who had committed sexual offences. She is also the author of the book, Inside Job. Of the individuals in society who admit to being sexually attracted to children, why do some people give in to those sexual compulsions when so many others don't? How does she measure success in this line of work? And how does working with people convicted of sexual offences impact staff?
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Craig Gottschalk was a wildlife biologist who went on to work in prisons for 12 years, first as a prison officer and finally as assistant director. He is now assistant ombudsman, investigating complaints from people in prison. Craig shares the signs to look out for before somebody becomes violent, taught to him from his days as a biologist. He tells us about an encounter with a former prisoner who threatened to kill Craig and his family, and how a chance meeting in a grocery store showed Craig that he was literally saving lives in prison.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Email me: evolvingprisons@outlook.com
Luke Mitchell is serving a prison sentence in Scotland for the murder of Jodi Jones. He claims he is innocent and numerous documentaries have aired questioning his guilt. Why do some people think he is innocent? How do the media remain respectful of Jodi's family when reporting on these matters? And how might prison be for Luke, since he doesn't accept he committed this crime? I speak with Naomi Channell, a TV producer and independent true crime podcaster, about her deep-dive into this case on her podcast.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Roughly 20,000 children in Scotland experience parental imprisonment each year. But what unique challenges do families of imprisoned individuals face? How do they navigate the emotional and practical realities of life during the Christmas season? I chat with Professor Nancy Loucks OBE, Chief Executive of Families Outside, to explore how the impact of imprisonment extends far beyond the individual behind bars and affects the lives of those left outside.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia, USA, was one of the most famous prisons in the world. How did the prison function in the 19th century and beyond? And how was Christmas celebrated there throughout the centuries? We chat to Damon McCool, the Senior Manager of Programme Development there now that the prison is a tourist site, to find out.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Anne Okkels Birk grew up on the grounds of a prison in Denmark as her dad was a prison governor. She went on to work for the prison service and is now a criminologist. She shares what this experience was like growing up, some of the challenges Danish prisons face, why sending prisoners to Kosovo isn't a good idea and lessons we can learn from the Holocaust and other genocides.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Email me: evolvingprisons@outlook.com
Photo Credit for Anne's picture in the cover art: Bent Dahl Jensen, Café Exit
This is a teaser of my full conversation with Leroy Pearson, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here for £3 ($3.85) to listen to the full conversation and all monthly bonus episodes.
Leroy worked as a prison officer in 3 prisons in England. He shares the ways in which his mum going to prison when he was at school shaped his behaviour as an officer, the barriers he faced as a result of his entire immediate family having criminal convictions, and the challenges he had as an ethnic minority prison officer.
Connect with Leroy
Instagram: @talkwithbiggz
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Email me: evolvingprisons@outlook.com
Justin Jones has worked in corrections in America for 47 years and was Director of the Oklahoma Department of Corrections for 8 years. During this time he witnessed 28 executions of people on death row. Who is there when the execution takes place? How did watching these impact him, particularly since he doesn’t believe in the death penalty? How did he get access to the drug required when pharmaceutical companies weren’t providing it? And if it isn’t a medical professional or prison staff member who administers the lethal injection, then who is it?
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Email me: evolvingprisons@outlook.com
I took the podcast to HMP Shrewsbury to interview former prison officer Graham, who has 38 years' experience in the job. He spent many years working at Shrewsbury, a prison that is said to be one of the most haunted in the world. What was it like to work here? How has prison work changed over the decades? CEO of the site, Joel, joins us to share paranormal experiences that have occurred within the prison.
Become a member of Evolving Prisons to watch the video version of this episode on YouTube, or watch from Tuesday when it's available to all listeners.
Video and photo credit: Ice Eye Media
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Email me: evolvingprisons@outlook.com
This is a 10-minute teaser of my full conversation with Dr Kathryn Whiteley, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here for £3 ($3.85) to listen to the full conversation and all monthly bonus episodes.
Dr Kathryn Whiteley has interviewed hundreds of women who've killed and are serving life or life without parole sentences in America, Australia and Ireland. She shares some stories that have stuck with her, how some of the women feel about their crimes and helps to humanise them by giving them a voice to share their life stories.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Email me: evolvingprisons@outlook.com
Dr Whiteley's podcast - Self-Identities: Conversations with convicted women
Dr Whiteley's documentary - Until We Have Faces: Women serving life
Dr Amanda Brown was a GP in a leafy suburb for 20 years before going to work in prison, despite not knowing doctors even worked in prisons. She spent 19 years working with both male and female prisoners, and foreign nationals. Dr Brown is also the author of The Prison Doctor book series. She shares some highs and lows with us, including traumatic experiences that will stay with her forever, and tells us why working in a prison has shifted her values.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Email me: evolvingprisons@outlook.com
Tarmi A'Vard is the wife of a prison officer. She talks about how it feels to see her husband, Chris, changed by the job. He was hospitalised on numerous occasions after attacks by prisoners and Tarmi shares the toll the job has taken on their marriage and social life. She also tells us about their difficult road ahead as Chris tries to recover from his experiences.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is a 10-minute teaser of my full conversation with Professor Ashely Rubin, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here for £3 ($3.85) to listen to the full conversation and all monthly bonus episodes.
How were women treated in prison in America in the early years at a time before they were considered citizens? Why has Alcatraz prison left such a legacy? And why is America's prison system the way it is, when their early plans were to move away from a penal system that brutalises to a more reformative system? Professor Ashley Rubin studies the history of prisons in America and answers these questions for us.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Portia Louder served five years in prison for mortgage fraud. She was imprisoned 14 hours from her husband and children in a federal prison. She was allowed 8 weeks at home before starting her sentence and she tells us about this experience. Portia shares how she navigated seeing her family only once a year and the challenges she's faced reintegrating back into the family unit upon release from prison.
Portia has written a book, Born to be Brave, which you can buy here.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Andy Laidlaw spent 26 years in the prison service in England, starting as a prison officer and finishing as a deputy prison governor. He tells us about his experiences as a hostage negotiator, how to minimise staff corruption and what working in a prison has taught him about life.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is a 10-minute teaser of my full conversation with Steve Tafka, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here for £3 ($3.85) to listen to the full conversation and all monthly bonus episodes.
What do you do when a prisoner draws an unnerving picture during class? And how does it impact you when the first thing you see while interviewing for a job in prison is a traumatising event? Steve Tafka was an art teacher in prisons in England for three years and shares some eye-opening experiences with us.
You can buy a copy of Steve's book, The Art of Crime, here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Dr Ben Cave is one of the UK’s leading forensic psychiatrists. He has 35 years of experience, including as a prison psychiatrist and a consultant in secure and general mental health units. He is also the author of What We Fear Most. We discuss misconceptions around mental illness, the fact the Mental Health Act does not apply in prison, and the risk of being a forensic psychiatrist where Dr Cave had a security system linked to the police installed in his home.
Buy a copy of Dr Cave's book, What We Fear Most, here.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Jason worked as a prison officer in both mainstream and sex offender prisons. He tells us about the mental health toll the job takes, whereby three of his colleagues took their own lives. He also talks about how management seeing prison officers as a number can contribute to them feeling undervalued and lacking self-worth, and he shares personal experiences he had of this during his time as an officer.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is a 10-minute teaser of my full conversation with Oscar Castro, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here for £3 ($3.85) to listen to the full conversation and all monthly bonus episodes.
Oscar Castro was on his third trip to Latin America to smuggle heroin back to America when he was caught at a hotel in Ecuador. He subsequently served 7 years in prison there. What's it like to spend time in a prison where you have to buy your cell and can get access to almost anything, as long as you pay the guards enough money? Is this still punishment? And how does Oscar feel for his part in contributing to the devastating impact drugs have?
Oscar Castro's links
YouTube: @globalockdownoscarcastro
Instagram: @globallockdown
TikTok: @globalockdown
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Jamie Morgan Kane spent 34 years in prison in America after walking into his home and finding a deceased man there who his wife had poisoned. Jamie was taken from the UK to America illegally as a baby and he shares how it felt re-adjusting to life in the UK at age 64, when he was deported after release from prison, despite spending almost all of his life overseas. He also tells us how it felt to do things he loved again, after being unable to do them for 34 years during his prison sentence.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Recently, the BBC aired a documentary about Andrew Malkinson, an individual from England who was wrongfully convicted of rape and spent 17 years in prison, until he was released in December 2020. Danny Barrs is the Chair of Promoting Prisoners Maintaining Innocence. Danny chats about majority verdicts in jury cases, how it can be difficult for innocent people to progress through prison and the difficulty they can face in obtaining compensation from the state upon their release from prison.
Learn more about the BBC documentary here or watch it on BBC iPlayer.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is a 20-minute teaser of my full conversation with Cage and Andreea, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here for $3.85 (£3) to listen to the full conversation and all monthly bonus episodes.
Cage is currently serving a 50 year prison sentence in Texas for aggravated robbery while his wife, Andreea, lives in London. They met in 2020 when Andreea wrote to Cage through writeaprisoner.com. They talk about how their relationship developed and how they maintain it despite the obvious barriers, the stigma attached to meeting and marrying someone in prison and their plans for the future, despite Cage only being 12 years into his sentence.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Chelsea Cameron wrote an open letter to her drug-addicted parents in 2017, thanking them for teaching her that life isn't all sunshine and rainbows. She shares the letter with us and tells us about the stigma of growing up with drug-addicted parents, whether prison helped her dad, and the issue with drugs in Scottish prisons, where 1 in 10 prisoners say they had never touched drugs before their imprisonment but started using them while inside.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
William Noguera spent 40 years on death row at San Quentin Prison for a murder he committed at age 18. Last year he was taken off death row but he is still in prison. He chats to us from his prison cell, telling us how a day on death row looked, how it felt to be given an execution date, how he feels about potentially being released one day into a society he hasn't been in for 41 years and how he has stayed disciplined to write books, host podcasts and create art while on death row.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons for £3 per month here.
William's links
Website
Podcast
YouTube
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is a 20-minute teaser of my full conversation with Rob Parkes, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here for $3.85 (£3) to listen to the full conversation and all monthly bonus episodes.
Rob Parkes was married to Victoria Breeden. Victoria is now serving a 9 year prison sentence for conspiracy to murder Rob. Rob speaks about being the victim of coercive control, how Victoria's second husband, Wayne, set fire to Rob's car while he was sleeping and how he discovered that Victoria was trying to hire somebody to kill him. Victoria is up for parole soon and Rob talks about his feelings towards this and whether he thinks prison will rehabilitate someone like her.
You can buy a copy of Rob's book here. Rob's story also featured on 24 hours in police custody.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Carl Scott joined a gang at 13 years old and subsequently spent 8 and a half years in prison. He was a victim of a knife attack which almost killed him. Carl chats about how a life of crime leaves you always looking over your shoulder, how prison might seem like a holiday camp but that loss of control is the real punishment, and how he lost his best friend to knife crime, who sadly died in his arms. Carl is now a knife crime ambassador.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons here.
Carl's links
Website
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
This is a 20-minute teaser of my full conversation with Gen Glaister, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here to listen to the full discussion and all monthly bonus episodes.
Gen was a prison officer in England and had been eager to become one since age 15. She talks about the difficulty of comprehending how some people can be so gentle and kind but also be a human trafficker, how she'd try to educate prisoners convicted of rape that wearing protection doesn't mean it isn't rape and the worry of losing the ability to feel compassion at all after witnessing so much trauma in prison.
You can order a copy of Gen's book, The Prison Officer, here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Why do prisons in California and Texas have so many gangs? Why didn't they exist prior to the 1950s? What happens to somebody who leaves the prison gang? How much influence do prison gangs have over people on the streets? I sat down with Professor David Skarbek who has published extensively on this topic. His book, The Social Order of the Underworld: How Prison Gangs Govern the American Penal System, can be bought here.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Marc Conway has served 10 prison sentences, stuck in the revolving door of crime until his final prison sentence in HMP Grendon, a therapeutic prison in England, made him think about why he'd been behaving the way he had. Marc discusses growing up with a distrust of police and how he feels that the government needs to do more to improve equality in our society.
Subscribe to monthly bonus episodes of Evolving Prisons here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Lee Davies was a prison officer in England and was imprisoned in May 2010 for taking contraband, namely mobile phones and cannabis, into prison for prisoners. Lee tells us how he started taking contraband in, how he got caught, ways to limit corrupt staff taking contraband into prisons and the impact that corrupt staff have on the prison service.
A monthly bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is released every month and you can subscribe to listen to them here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: Kaigan Carrie
Bruce Perham is a social worker and therapist in Melbourne, Australia. He has provided counselling and debriefing to prison officers after traumatic incidents for many years. We hear ways in which the job takes its toll on prison officers, including hearing about an officer who was beaten, leaving him with a brain and spinal injury and unable to work, and another officer recounts the impact of finding prisoners who have taken their own life.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is released every month. You can subscribe to listen to these bonus episodes for £2.99 a month here.
Connect with Bruce Perham at Let's Talk Differently.
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Brianna Ghey, age 16, was murdered in England in February 2023 in a premeditated stabbing attack by two 15 year olds, Scarlett and Eddie. The court decided the offence was primarily motivated by sadistic tendencies. They were sentenced last week to life imprisonment with a minimum term of 22 years and 20 years respectively. I sat down with one of the UK's most respected forensic psychologists, Dr Naomi Murphy, who has 25 years experience working with violent and sexually violent offenders, to ask some questions like:
- How might the risk they pose change as their brains mature?
- Would Scarlett watching violence on the dark web have contributed to her decision to murder Brianna?
- What impact might naming the killers have?
- What might adult prison be like for them by the time they get there?
- How do we better support the staff who are caring for people who have committed such heinous crimes?
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is released every month and these episodes don't appear on the main page. You can subscribe to listen to these bonus episodes for £2.99 a month here.
Dr Murphy's links
Locked Up Living podcast
Octopus Psychology
Evolving Prisons links
Website
This is a 20-minute teaser of my full conversation with Vanessa Frake, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here to listen to the full discussion and all monthly bonus episodes.
Vanessa Frake worked for the prison service in England for 27 years and was awarded an MBE in 2012 for her work. Vanessa shares her biggest regret in her career where a prisoner escaped while on escort and a prison officer took their own life. We chat about riots and assaults, corrupt prison officers and the difficulty of fitting into society when you've spent your entire career behind bars.
Order a copy of Vanessa's book here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Why do so many people have a fascination with serial killers? What's it like to meet one? How do serial killers justify their crimes? Can they be rehabilitated or is prison merely for their containment? Dr Scott Bonn answers these questions and more. He is a criminologist, author of 'why we love serial killers' and he provides expert commentary for high profile true crime TV shows.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is also released each month. You can view and listen to the bonus episodes by subscribing here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Dr Scott Bonn's links
Website
Tour tickets
Why we love serial killers book
Tony Attwood has 25 years of lived experience with addiction and crime. Peter Ross was a judge who sentenced him to a period of imprisonment and subsequently to a rehabilitation treatment centre. Tony later founded Hope and Vision Communities with Peter, providing people with a home to stay at after they successfully leave addiction treatment services. This is a remarkable story of two individuals on opposing sides of the criminal justice system coming together to help society.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is also released each month. You can view and listen to the bonus episodes by subscribing here.
Learn more about Hope and Vision Communities.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
George Bannister served time in prison in England for an attempted robbery on a post office to fund his drug addiction. He talks about learning the value of karma, respect and gratitude in prison, and how connection is key to a life free from addiction.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is also released each month. You can only view and listen to the bonus episodes by subscribing here.
You can connect with George Bannister here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Joe Arvidson is a criminologist and desistance advocate from the United States of America. Joe shares with us how he feels the media portrays a narrow view of corrections, and how prison can cause more harm than good. He also shares the importance of self-regulation, identity, resilience and social support in desistance.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is also released each month. You can only view and listen to the bonus episodes by subscribing here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Joe's podcast, The Criminologist.
Alex McClintock was a prison officer at HMP Perth in Scotland for 19 years and he featured on Channel 4's Banged Up. Alex shares how his mental health declined to the point he had a breakdown and intended to take his own life. He tells us how his PTSD manifests itself, we discuss how prison officers can look after their wellbeing and we chat about the Banged Up TV show experience.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is also released each month. You can subscribe to listen to the monthly bonus episodes for £2.99 here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
This is a 20-minute teaser of my full conversation with Alex South, released as this month's bonus episode. Subscribe here to listen to the full discussion and all monthly bonus episodes.
Alex is the author of the incredible book, Behind These Doors. She worked for the prison service in England for 10 years in HMP Whitemoor, HMP Belmarsh and HMP Wormwood Scrubs. We talk about the impossible task of keeping on top of the contraband entering some prisons, the violence that occurs in prison, the dangers of Spice and drug psychosis, and the detrimental impact prison can have on people where prisoners and staff are taking their own lives.
Buy a copy of Alex's book here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Clare Pearson spent almost 22 years working in prisons in England. She governed 4 public prisons and was the director of a private prison. Clare also appeared as the governor on Channel 4's TV series 'Banged Up'. We chat about the difference between working in a male and female prison and how Clare's leadership style varied across each, the time a prisoner assaulted her and she required surgery for a double jaw fracture, and how close to real prison life the Banged Up TV show was.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is also released each month. You can subscribe to listen to the monthly bonus episodes for £2.99 here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Why is there a high risk of suicide in Vantaa Prison in Finland? What values are needed to be a good prison officer? Do some prison staff join the service with a power complex or does the job create this within them? Minna Liukkonen works in Vantaa Prison, Finland's largest prison. She recruits, inducts and mentors new prison officers.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is released every month and these episodes don't appear on the main page. You can subscribe to listen to these bonus episodes for £2.99 a month here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @kaigancarrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Professor Francis Pakes has spent the last decade researching prisons in some Nordic countries, including Iceland. He spent a week as a quasi-prisoner in two open prisons there to better understand life in prison in Iceland. We discuss how he felt going into prison, some of the experiences he had as a quasi-prisoner there and how vastly different the culture inside prison is in Iceland, where prison officers would sometimes bring their dogs or children to work.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is released every month and these episodes don't appear on the main page. You can subscribe to listen to these bonus episodes for £2.99 a month here.
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Anni Karnaranta is Governor (also known as Head of Unit) at Hämeenlinna Prison in Finland, a smart prison for women. We discuss Anni's 17 years in the prison service and the many different areas staff can train in, including becoming a lawyer which Anni also did. We discuss what crimes people tend to go to prison for in Finland, how staff combat the problem with drugs coming into the prisons and what a smart prison actually is.
One bonus episode of Evolving Prisons is released every month and these episodes don't appear on the main page. You can subscribe to listen to these bonus episodes for £2.99 a month here.Evolving Prisons linksLinkedIn: kaigancarrieInstagram: @evolvingprisonsWebsite: evolvingprisons.com
Jackie Dunn's son Lucas began an 18 year prison sentence in March 2022 for DUI manslaughter in Florida, USA. Jackie and I discuss the circumstances surrounding his conviction, whether him doing an 18 year sentence is really better for society than him doing the alternative which was a 10 year sentence with a lifetime of educating about the dangers of DUIs, how two people can commit very similar crimes but get very different prison sentences and how somebody can get a 30 year prison sentence for stealing DVDs.
Jackie's non-profit, Data4Change
Evolving Prisons links
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Or you can email me at evolvingprisons@outlook.com
Dom Kelly is a former prison officer within Northern Ireland and now works in forensic psychology services within the same service. He shares his experiences of working with political and sexual offenders, and details the stark differences between working with these two groups. We also discuss the dangers prison officers have faced in Northern Ireland over the years. Dom has also been involved in prison research for more than 10 years and shares some of his research into prison officer wellbeing and boundary violations between prison officers and prisoners.
Evolving Prisons links
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
LinkedIn: kaigancarrie
Website: evolvingprisons.com
Lucy Letby, age 33, was convicted last week of murdering 7 babies and attempting to murder 6 more while working as a nurse on the Neonatal Unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital in England. I sat down with one of the UK's most respected forensic psychologists, Dr Naomi Murphy, who has 25 years experience working with violent and sexually violent offenders, to ask some questions like:
- How can a cold, callous killer also be described by some as gentle, kind and timid?
- What could her motive have been?
- How do prison staff manage to separate their potential personal feelings about Lucy Letby from their professional duty to care for her and protect her?
- Can somebody like Lucy Letby ever be rehabilitated?
Dr Murphy's links
Locked Up Living podcast
Octopus Psychology
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Joshua Holi went to prison in the United States for attempted murder after shooting his sister's ex-boyfriend. We discuss how Joshua began a life of drug dealing after getting a $700 fine, spending 13 months on the run after shooting his sister's ex-boyfriend and his time in prison. Through Joshua's warm and positive energy, this conversation challenges preconceived notions about people who have committed crime.
Connect with Joshua on instagram: @know_vember
Evolving Prisons links
Instagram: @evolvingprisons
Website
Jesse Crosson went to prison just after his 18th birthday. He was sentenced to 32 years in prison for committing a robbery and a separate, non-fatal shooting. Jesse shares how he turned his life around in prison, how he was unexpectedly released after serving 19 years, and the difficulty of reintegrating back into society after spending more than half of his life in prison.
Jesse's website
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Louise Ashton spent five years in prisons in England for conspiracy to supply Class A drugs. She shares her story of how she met and married a man involved in drug dealing, before she was arrested. She discusses her time in prison, maintaining contact with her incarcerated husband, and the prevalence of inappropriate relationships between prison officers and prisoners. Louise highlights the importance of education for prisoners and the impact of the Proceeds of Crime Act now she is out of prison. She also shares her efforts to discourage young people in Liverpool, UK, from romanticising prison.
Timestamps
[01:27] How Louise came to be charged with conspiracy to supply Class A drugs
[09:35] Louise was arrested but her ex-husband fled the country
[10:40] Maintaining her relationship with her ex-husband while they were both in prison
[14:45] How Louise felt being sentenced to 10 years in prison
[19:24] What prison was like
[23:11] Prison wealth disparities
[29:19] Relationships between prison officers and prisoners
[37:06] The Proceeds of Crime Act
[44:44] What Louise thinks we need to change to make prisons a
place of growth
Evolving Prisons links
Website
The views and opinions of the guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views of opinions of the host.
In this episode, Sam and I discuss inderminate prison sentences in England and Wales. These prisoners are on sentences called Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP sentences). These sentences came into effect in 2005 to detain offenders, who committed serious crimes and posed a significant risk of harm to the public, in prison until they no longer posed a risk. However, many people who have committed crimes without a violent element have been given this sentence. Some IPP prisoners have been in prison for decades, despite being given a two year tariff they had to serve in prison. There are just under 3000 people are still in prison on IPP sentences today. We discuss the psychological impacts of IPP sentences and the self-harm risk they pose, how - once released - licence conditions can leave them living half a life. This is an important episode about a prison sentence that has been coined ‘a stain on the British justice system’.
Timestamps
[02:14] What is an IPP sentence and why is it used?
[04:58] Why were people who were convicted of minor offences given this sentence?
[07:15] Why IPP prisoners are being sent back to prison without being convicted of a further crime
[13:44] The psychological impacts of IPP sentences and how this impacts parole
[25:16] How someone convicted of murder can be released from prison earlier than someone who stole a mobile phone
[27:07] Government’s plan to deal with IPP prisoners
[32:02] What happens to IPP prisoners whose mental health has suffered to the point they aren’t safe in the community?
You can listen to Sam's podcast on IPP sentences here
Evolving Prisons links
Website
The views and opinions of the guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Paul Bridges is a volunteer at Amnesty International UK and is Chair of the Anti-Death Penalty Project. The purpose of the project is to raise awareness about the death penalty with Amnesty members, the public and politicians. In this episode, Paul shares arguments for and against the death penalty with us, but debunks the 'for' arguments with facts and stats. For example, did you know it actually costs more to have someone on death row than to imprison them for life? We discuss cases in the UK and US where innocent people have been given the death penalty and have later been found to be innocent, though sometimes after they've been executed. We discuss the inhumanity of the death penalty and different methods used to execute people. Paul also tells us about some of the psychological impacts the death penalty has on the people on death row, executioners themselves and on victims' families.
Timestamps
[1.02] How the Anti Death-Penalty Project began and why Paul got involved
[4:44] Arguments for and against the death penalty
[12:53] Why do countries with the death penalty tend to have higher crime?
[14:36] Some cases where innocent people have been given the death penalty in the UK and US
[16:28] How many countries use the death penalty?
[19:10] Methods used in execution and how they can go wrong
[22:45] Psychological impacts of the death penalty
[28:00] Do victims’ families want the death penalty?
[32:50] Death row syndrome
[35:45] What do we do with people who are incapable of change?
You can learn more about Amnesty's death penalty work here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website
The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Ian Gunn was a Governor in four prisons in Scotland over a 22 year period. He worked with male prisoners, female prisoners and in a prison which held only sex offenders. He shares some of the lessons he learned during his service, from how to respond when sex offenders tell him they're innocent, to being taken to court by a prisoner for staff opening his confidential mail. Ian shares some of the stark differences between working with male and female prisoners, tells us about a hostage taking situation which lasted almost 20 hours in HMP Aberdeen and why a 'tough on crime' approach doesn't work. Ian also shares that prison officers are often overlooked and deserve more recognition for the work they do.
Timestamps
[01:21] How Ian joined the Scottish Prison Service directly as a Governor
[07:57] The first time Ian realised people aren’t in prison to be punished
[11:45] Ian shares some differences between working with male and female prisoners
[21:43] Ian shares about a hostage situation that occurred in HMP Aberdeen
[28:00] One of the biggest challenges Ian dealt with as a Governor
[38:33] Why a ‘tough on crime’ approach doesn’t work for most people in prison
[42:14] Working at HMP Peterhead, which at the time held convicted sex offenders
[52:25] Some misconceptions about prison governors
[57:57] How prison changed Ian’s personality
[59:56] What can we do to improve prison officer wellbeing?
You can connect with Ian here.
Evolving Prisons links
Website
The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Elizabeth Franklin-Best has been a Criminal Defense Lawyer in the United States of America for over 20 years. Elizabeth shares some misconceptions about criminal defense lawyers and recounts one of her most challenging death penalty cases where it appears the prosecutor was excluding jurors based on race. She shares why she finds death penalty cases particularly difficult and why she feels that executing people does not add any value to society. We discuss the importance of considering somebody’s background when sentencing them and whether lengthy prison sentences actually work. We talk about how to make prisons safer for prison staff and incarcerated people, and how people often age out of crime. We also discuss private prisons and what the purpose of prison actually is.
Timestamps
[01:05] Elizabeth shares why she became a criminal defense lawyer
[02:32] Misconceptions people have about criminal defense lawyers
[03:45] One of the most challenging death penalty cases Elizabeth has dealt with
[08:01] Why Elizabeth feels death penalty cases are particularly difficult
[12:30] The importance of understanding someone’s background when sentencing them
[14:05] Whether there is a difference in the types of people given the death penalty compared to other clients Elizabeth has dealt with
[15:15] Executing somebody does not achieve any valuable societal goal
[20:50] South Carolina is particularly punitive on crime and how this might impact recidivism rates
[23:55] Prison Litigation Reform Act 1996 and Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act 1996
[31:35] What can we do to make prisons safer for prison staff and prisoners?
[37:30] People can commit horrific crimes and still become a safe citizen as they age
[39:35] Private prisons
[41:58] What is the job of a prison?
[43:55] How can we improve prisons?
[46:20] How do we improve conditions for prison staff?
Connect with Elizabeth Franklin-Best
Connect with me:
Website
The views and opinions expressed by the guests on Evolving Prisons are not the views or opinions of the host
Former prison officers, Ella and Harriet, speak about the difficulty of working in a prison system that often causes harm to prisoners. They share their stories of joining the service with hopes of making a difference, only to discover a reality that was far different than what they expected. They discuss the challenges of working in a system where rehabilitative work is often prevented, and where prison officers are exposed to dangerous substances like New Psychoactive Substances (NPS). Ella and Harriet speak about the difficulty of caring for your wellbeing while working as a prison officer, and inadequate training within the prison system. They also discuss their current work through the company they created, Glass House Theatre, where they share stories about prison and the criminal justice system with their audience to bring awareness to worlds that are often repressed and unseen.
Timestamps
[09:00] The impacts of NPS drug Spice on prison officers
[14:00] The difficulty of caring for your wellbeing as a prison officer
[22:45] Difficulties of working in prison when you wish the system didn't exist
[29:17] Injustices in prison
[37:37] Trans people in prison
[40:30] Prison officer training
[48:00] Prison abolition
Connect with Ella and Harriet
Glass House Theatre website
Connect with me:
Website
The views and opinions expressed by the guests on Evolving Prisons are not the views or opinions of the host
In this episode, I am joined by Dean Williams, the former Executive Director of the Colorado Department of Corrections and Commissioner of Corrections in Alaska. Dean talks about the preventable deaths in custody that happened in Alaska before he took over which cemented his decision to take over the role, and the reforms he made towards a more humane prison system. He also shares why Colorado had a 50% recidivism rate despite having a corrections budget of $1 billion. Dean tells us about a work programme that he created for prisoners which was abolished after one prisoner escaped and stole his employer's car, and the effects of the statement, ‘if we make prisons a hell hole, then people won’t want to come back.’
Timestamps
[00:13] Dean Williams’s background information
[01:58] How and why Dean ended up taking over Alaska
[08:16] What went wrong in Larry’s case that caused his death in custody
[14:02] What reforms Dean put in place in prisons in Alaska
[21:18] The use of lethal force in prisons
[26:16] Why the recidivism rate in Colorado was 50% despite having a budget of $1 billion
[31:00] The reforms that Dean made to reduce the recidivism rate in Colorado
[43:20] Dean’s current role of helping leaders around the world to be better
[48:02] The effects of the believe, ‘If we make prisons a hell hole, then people won’t want to go back.’
Connect with Dean Williams
Connect with me:
Website
The views and opinions expressed by the guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host
Andy West talks about the power of teaching Philosophy in prison. Drawing on his personal experiences, Andy shares how teaching Philosophy to prisoners can help with their personal growth and emotional wellbeing. He discusses how he became aware of prisons from a very young age, as his father, brother and uncle all served time in prison. We also explore the importance of creating an environment conducive to growth and change, and the struggles of prison officers in navigating the differing worlds of prison and the outside world.
Andy's book - The Life Inside: A Memoir of Prison, Family and Philosophy
Evolving Prisons links
Website
The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
One of California Innocence Project's (CIP) missions is to free wrongfully convicted people from prison. Did you know that research suggests around 80,000 innocent people are in prison in the United States? Claudia and Sydnie are both Senior Staff Attorney Fellows at CIP. They share stories with us about people CIP have helped to free from prison and how they were wrongfully convicted, they tell us the main reasons why people are wrongfully convicted in the United States and they share what it feels like when they aren't able to free people who say they're innocent.
California Innocence Project link
Website
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by the guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Martin Lockett is a substance abuse counsellor, author, public speaker, and advocate for reducing driving under the influence fatalities. He spent 17.5 years in prison for a driving under the influence fatality that claimed two lives and severely injured another. In an impassioned vow to his victims’ families and friends at his sentencing, Martin decided to devote the rest of his life to honouring his victims’ legacies by helping others who struggle with substance abuse. In this episode we discuss the circumstances leading up to Martin's crime, the death of both of his parents while he was in prison, battling against becoming institutionalised inside and prison as a deterrent. Martin has published two books and was released from prison two years ago. He continues his mission and message by helping those in need of counselling for mental health and substance use disorders. He also shares his powerful story across the USA.
Martin's links
Website
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by the guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Laura Bevan is the Prisoner and Family Service Manager at Prisoners Abroad. Prisoners Abroad is a human rights and welfare charity providing humanitarian aid, advice and emotional support to people affected by overseas imprisonment. They assist British citizens during their incarceration, when they return to the UK and need access to resettlement services, and they support their family and friends throughout the trauma. In this episode, we discuss the incredible work Prisoners Abroad does and Laura shares some stories of people they’ve helped.
Prisoners Abroad Website
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by all guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Mike Oulton has spent 15 years in prison in Mexico and Canada. He was a career criminal but his positive outlook on life and growth has enabled him to break free from a life of crime. Mike talks about first being arrested at the age of 10. He tells us about his 10 year prison sentence in Mexico for drug smuggling, and his imprisonment in Canada thereafter. He shares some prison rules that we can all implement in our own lives and gives us tips for how we can live a happier life.
Mike's links
Website
Podcast
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by all guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Megan is a social worker in Florida, USA. She shares her experience of working in a prison there to improve the wellbeing of incarcerated people and how she felt the work she was doing wasn't supported by the staff within the prison. Megan also tells us about recidivism in Florida and the '3 strikes and your out rule' which can see people spend their entire life in prison, even if they haven't committed a crime in many decades. She also shares how lack of quality nutrition and medical care in prison can cause problems for individuals, and society as a whole, when that person is released from prison.
Megan's links
Website
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by all guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
Anthony Stephen Malone has a very varied career history. Among many things, he is a former paratrooper, special advisor and CIA agent. In this episode he speaks about the time he spent 3 years working undercover in a prison in Afghanistan and the 4 year prison sentence he served in prisons in England. Anthony tells us about some of the problems facing prisons in England today, he compares English prisons to some prisons he’s visited overseas and he talks about the importance of improving conditions for prison staff.
Anthony's links
Website
Evolving Prisons links
Website
Please note that the views and opinions expressed by all guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast are not the views or opinions of the host.
David served two prison sentences in England for burglary which stemmed from using drugs and gambling. His second time in prison transformed his life as he discovered growth-orientated activities, including the power of sport. In prison, he ran a marathon and decided he would paddle the longest lakes in the UK when he was released. He is now a 7x SUP World Record holder. In this episode he speaks about the human need he was trying to meet while taking drugs and gambling, what happened in prison to change his life, the incredible SUP World Records he has broken and hopes to break in 2023, plus his plans for the future.
David's links
Website
Evolving Prisons links
Sally Taylor is the Chief Executive of Koestler Arts, a prison arts charity. They aim to help prisoners, and other detained individuals, lead more positive lives by motivating them to participate in the arts. They currently have their annual exhibition on in Southbank London until 18 December 2022 which showcases work created by people in prison or other places of detention. The exhibition is presented by hosts who have lived experience of being in prison. Sally tells us about the exhibition, some stories about how the Koestler Arts have positively impact the lives of many people and she shares a wonderful poem with us written by an entrant to the Koestler Awards. You can learn more about Koestler Arts here. Connect with me on Instagram @evolvingprisons
Tommy had a methamphetamine addiction and served time in prison in Auckland, New Zealand. He went on to study for a degree in Criminology and work for an organisation which aims to transform the criminal justice system in New Zealand. In this episode he speaks about his addiction and using drugs to make him feel better internally. He explains how he felt his personality was stripped away from him in prison and the lack of access to rehabilitation opportunities. Tommy also shares that two police officers caught him in possession of drugs, but treated it as a health issue rather than criminalising him. You can connect with Tommy here or listen to his podcast here.
Anthony Pierre went from earning $40,000 a month as a real estate investor in the USA, to serving a 6 year prison sentence for drug charges and only earning $20 a month in prison. Anthony speaks about the importance of mindset in turning your life around. He explains that, because many people around him used drugs, he didn’t see them as being particularly bad, not the way somebody who has never been exposed to drugs might. It wasn’t until he was in prison that he realised how much the people around you can shape and influence your behaviour. Anthony became an ordained minister in prison. He also started delivering classes to fellow prisoners on the importance of moral ethics and always doing the right thing, and how to create a successful business post release from prison. You can learn more about Anthony's business here or connect with him on social media here.
Jolyn was living a happy life with her husband and spending a lot of her time travelling, as she was able to work on her business from anywhere. Jolyn’s life dramatically changed when she got a phone call from her son to say he had been arrested and was facing life in prison. Jolyn speaks about navigating the criminal justice system, how she dealt with changing relationships when her son was incarcerated, the stigma attached to having a loved one in prison, and support groups available for families of people in prison. We also discuss Jolyn's book 'Trauma Recovery'. You can contact Jolyn and learn more about the support groups and her book here.
Follow me on Instagram @evolvingprisons
Dr Craig Waleed is an educator and counsellor. He is currently working as a Campaign Manager to end the use of long term solitary confinement in North Carolina. He holds a master’s degree and a PhD, and he also spent 8 years in prison in New York for attempted murder in the second degree. In this episode Craig shares with us that he was subjected to abuse growing up. He speaks about prison and how dehumanising it can be, including his two 30 day stays in solitary confinement. We also speak about how, when a person leaves prison, their debt to society should be paid, however it often isn’t, as people with convictions can face discrimination post release. Craig has written a book called 'Prison to Promise: A Chronicle of Healing and Transformation' which you can purchase here.
Follow me on instagram @evolvingprisons
To celebrate 20 amazing guests on the Evolving Prisons podcast I thought we'd do a different episode where I am interviewed about my recent research into prison officer training in Scotland and Norway. I am interviewed by Rob Hosking, former police officer and also my partner, who often gets roped into prison related things for me! I completed a Masters by Research degree and this research is what made up that degree. I spent two years part-time deep diving into prison officer literature, conducting interviews and focus groups with prison officers, line managers and governors in Scotland and Norway. I then wrote a 30,000 word thesis on the literature which exists, and my findings in relation to prison officer training in Scotland and Norway, and the extent to which this enables prison officers to impact the lives of prisoners. You can read my thesis here.
Jason Tremblay has worked as a prison officer in Alberta and Saskatchewan, Canada, however he has been off work for several years having been diagnosed with PTSD. He shares his story of becoming a prison officer and some of the events he has experienced which he thinks has contributed to his PTSD. He also tells us about how difficult it can be to live with PTSD. Jason tells us about the River Valley Resilience Retreat (RVRR) he attends in Saskatchewan. RVRR is a place where public safety personnel who are finding it difficult to cope can go to rest and recharge among their peers. You can find out more about it here.
To learn a little bit more about PTSD you can read this factsheet from the Mental Health Foundation or this one from Mind.
Sara Lee has worked as a musician in prisons since 1984 and in 1995 she was asked to form the Irene Taylor Trust which delivers music projects in prisons and in the community. Sara speaks about the beginning of her career working in HMP Wormwood Scrubs playing music for people in prison and the positive effect this had on not only them, but the staff too. She tells us about how the arts were called upon during the Covid-19 pandemic to help alleviate the difficulties people in prison were facing by being in their cell around 23 hours per day. She shares about her experiences of working in America and Norway, and the integration of music in prisons over there. Sara also talks about the many benefits of music for people in prison and how she wishes more funding and importance was placed on this. You can learn more about the work of the Irene Taylor Trust here.
Natasha founded Unlocked Graduates in 2016. It aims to encourage university graduates to work as a prison officer in England for two years, while gaining a masters degree. They are challenged to create new ideas around improving the way prisons work. Today, Natasha speaks about why she founded Unlocked Graduates and what the programme entails. Max is a prison officer and he discusses how he decided to join Unlocked Graduates after they attended his university and his Reticular Activating System started seeing them everywhere. Max shares his experience of being a prison officer and of the Unlocked Graduates programme. You can learn more about Unlocked Graduates here.
Peter Sage is a motivational speaker, international serial entrepreneur and an expert on human behaviour. He is a 6 time Tedx speaker and has shared the stage with Sir Richard Branson and Elon Musk. He is also the recipient of the BrandLaureate Award and was named one of the greatest leaders and entrepreneurs by Inspiring Leadership Now.
In 2017, Peter served a 6 month prison sentence for contempt of court. He was the only civil prisoner serving a sentence inside HMP Pentonville, statistically the most violent prison in the UK at the time, despite him never being charged with or convicted of a crime. In this episode we speak about the incredible work Peter did in prison to help fellow incarcerated individuals, including creating a 'new prisoner welcome booklet', which is now being used in many prisons around the world. We also speak about how he remained positive in such a negative place, the importance of raising one's consciousness in prison and not just their level of education, and his book 'The Inside Track' which contains 11 letters he wrote to his coaching group while in prison. Peter won a Koestler Award for the work he did in prison.
You can get a copy of Peter's book, The Inside Track, here
Sinem Bozkurt was a prison officer in England for a year and a half before she was caught taking contraband into prison for an incarcerated person. She then went on to serve a prison sentence. Sinem speaks about her time as an officer, what was going on in her life that contributed to her taking in contraband and her time serving a sentence. We discuss whether the training equips officers to do the job expected of them, whether prison is a necessary punishment for some offences and how three people can be convicted of similar offences yet get very different outcomes.
You can read the article Sinem wrote about her experience here: 'Absent Voices: Experiencing Prison Life from Both Sides of the Fence - A Turkish Female's Perspective'
William Young is a Correctional Officer in Nebraska, USA and has been in this work since 2005. He also has a business called Just Corrections where he aims to bring awareness to the emotional and psychological dangers of correctional work. In this episode, William speaks about the impact being a Correctional Officer can have on your physical and mental health, and your life outside of work. We discuss his book, 'The Nothing That Never Happened', where William shares experiences that happen in prison that officers don’t think are a big deal but can actually cause trauma to them. We also discuss why we believe Correctional Officers should be seen in the same light as the police force, the fire service and the health service.
You can purchase a copy of William's book here.
Paul is an international consultant on penal reform and has been doing this work since 1997. He has worked for United Nations agencies and reform groups. Today he shares with us his experience of working in countries such as Uganda, Lebanon and Nigeria. Paul discusses the issues their prisons face such as lack of resources for rehabilitation efforts, lack of food for incarcerated people and sometimes difficulties in knowing where staff’s next paycheck is coming from. However, it’s clear from what Paul shares that these countries are doing their best to make a positive difference in the lives of their incarcerated population.
Tom Eberhardt has 26 years' experience working in different prisons in Norway, from being a prison officer to a governor and working within other management positions within the Norwegian Correctional Service. He was the governor of Bastøy Prison for six years until 2020. Bastøy prison is a low-security prison on Bastøy Island around 75km away from Oslo. The prison houses people who are sentenced for things such as murder and rape, among other things. Tom speaks about what sets Bastøy prison apart from other prisons and he discusses the work he currently does with Amend in the United States, a programme which intends to transform American prisons into places of rehabilitation like Norway does, rather than punishment.
Eddie has spent a total of 20 years in prisons in England for different offences but hasn’t committed a crime in over 16 years now. Eddie now does work in some prisons in England. In this episode he speaks about the impact of the new psychoactive substances (NPS) in prison known as Spice, the importance of utilising people with lived experience in prisons and the importance of education in prison. Eddie shares about how he feels education is not as readily available as it was when he was inside and the impact this can have on people in prison. Eddie was diagnosed within education in prison of having dyslexia at the age of 30. This was a turning point for him and he worries there will be individuals in prison who are dyslexic but not diagnosed, and the impact this can have on them. Eddie uses his love for art and digital creation to share his story of abuse, addiction and criminality in the hope he can help people who have had similar experiences to him. You can see some of the work that Eddie now does here.
Paul Boggie had a heroin addiction for seven years and managed to overcome this addiction almost eighteen years ago. He went on to work for the Scots Guard and protect the Queen. Paul now goes into prisons and educates people in prison and prison officers about addiction and mental health. He speaks about his addiction, his work in prison and about the book he published in 2020 called Heroin to Hero. He also created an audio version of the book which was recorded by people in prison and prison officers. All of the proceeds of this book go to homelessness in Scotland and you can buy a copy here: Heroin to Hero
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Naman Jawaid spent time in prison in England for fraud which he tells us stems from a gambling addiction he developed. Naman speaks about his experience of prison and his difficulty of accessing help for his addiction in prison, leading us to discuss prison meeting two of its main aims of deterrence and rehabilitation. He also speaks about the people he met and how even though a person might have done a horrific thing they can still be good people, causing us to think about the harm of labelling people as the crime they have committed.
Arne Nilsen is a psychotherapist in Norway. He spent time working at Bastøy Prison as a psychotherapist and as a governor. He also has experience of working as an international advisor to prison services in different countries. Today he speaks about his time working at Bastøy and about the importance of respect and responsibility for people in prison. He discusses the 12 step change wheel he has developed for how we can transform prisons from static security to dynamic places of change and growth to better aid rehabilitation.
Arne's chapter 'How to Transform a Static Security Prison into a Dynamic Organism for Change and Growth' can be found in 'The Routledge Handbook of the Philosophy and Science of Punishment' from 2020. ISBN: 9780429507212
Halden prison has been featured in the media as the world’s most humane prison. Are is the governor of Halden and Tonje is the training supervisor, responsible for supporting new recruits throughout their training. They discuss the work that is happening in Halden and how it differs from some other prisons in Norway. They speak about the impact for both people in prison and prison staff of more humane prison conditions. They also discuss prison officer training in Norway and how this has evolved over time.
Fritzi is a prison reform activist in the USA and founder of Compassion Prison Project (CPP). CPP's mission is to transform prisons in the USA and internationally into places of healing and education, so that the most traumatised people in our society can be cared for and supported. This is done through projects with incarcerated individuals and prison staff around adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) and trauma-informed practice. At least 98% of incarcerated people have at least one ACE and often they don't realise that they are frequently in fight or flight mode. The impact this has on them can be devastating and can lead to further sanctions being placed on them in prison. The life expectancy of prison officers is only 59 years old and a lot of that can be attributed to the traumatic events they deal with regularly. Fritzi's work is so important and is desperately needed in prisons around the world.
Brian has an abundance of knowledge and experience when it comes to prisons, having spent his entire career working in corrections in Missouri, USA. The majority of his time was spent working at Ozark Correctional Center, which is a dedicated drug treatment facility for incarcerated people with addictions. Brian was the warden for the last 7 years of his career in Ozark before he retired last year.
On this episode he speaks about what sets a treatment facility apart from other prisons and explains how the therapeutic community model works. Brian discusses how this type of facility can really help transform the lives of incarcerated individuals with addictions. Particularly when previously incarcerated individuals who were on the programme in Ozark, come back and actually teach the programme to people currently in prison. This can help show them that they too can turn their lives around.
Dr David Honeywell is an academic and an author. He has also spent a number of years in and out of prison. David said that access to education and looking inwards helped him address his offending behaviour, rather than prison itself. He speaks about how desisting from crime isn’t a linear path and he feels it’s an ongoing journey of policing himself to ensure he continues to desist from crime. David shares his story in the hope of inspiring others to see that even when you’re at rock bottom and others have lost faith in you, you can still find the strength to turn your life around.
www.evolvingprisons.com
Rick's experience of the criminal justice system spans four decades and he is a recognised leader in prison reform. He was appointed Executive Director of the Colorado Department of Corrections in 2013, after his predecessor was assassinated by an individual who was released into the community directly from solitary confinement. Many reforms around the use of solitary confinement occurred during Rick's tenure, after he spent time in solitary confinement himself. In this episode he speaks about the use of solitary confinement and the reforms that have been made.
www.evolvingprisons.com
Dr Lukas Carey spent one year in prison for commissions he received while working for local government in Victoria, Australia. He is also a teacher, coach and academic. Lukas talks about the difficulties experienced before, during and after imprisonment. He also talks about the struggles people with convictions face when trying to obtain employment post release from prison, regardless of how experienced they are in the field they're applying to. As employment is considered to be one of the things that prevent an individual from committing further crime after release, this is a discussion worth sharing.
www.evolvingprisons.com
John seeks to reduce loneliness and social isolation in prisons in England by holding poetry workshops, telling stories through music or simply having conversations. John didn't know much about prisons until he started working in them several years ago. He feels that if he had the knowledge he has about prisons now, when he was young, his number one career choice would have been to be a prison officer. In this episode he shares a poem written by a person in prison, talks about IPP sentences and more.
www.evolvingprisons.com
Brian has 28 years' experience working in corrections in the United States. For 14 of these years he worked as a warden overseeing entire prison establishments. Brian founded Social Profit Corrections this year with a vision to transform American prisons into places of reform, rather than punishment. Today we talk about the root cause of the challenges in corrections in America and how Brian believes we can change this to improve the system for the people who live and work there.
www.evolvingprisons.com
Listen to this short introduction about why I decided to create this podcast and what you can expect from it.