Pualena discusses the best tips and tricks for course creators with none other than the owner and CEO of LifterLMS, Chris Badgett. Pualena asks the questions any course creator is dying to know. What is the best software to start with? How can you get a course successfully out to market? What are the essential strategies for promoting your courses and bringing in continuous business? Chris Badgett answers all with added tips, building blocks and more.
They dive into the beginnings of Chris's career and how he went from working with sled dogs to running a highly successful business. Chris discusses his balance of life with a booming tech company and how he keeps his sanity through it all. Pua picks his brain on the different types of innovative platforms, the most user-friendly platforms and the best options for experts who want endless resources. Find out what's essential for course creation, strategy vs. tools, the four types of courses and what three variables to look for when creating pricing for your courses. Finally, Chris expresses why he’s passionate about his business and how a clear concept can help you grow.
About Chris Badgett
Chris Badgett started his career in the dog sled industry and slowly made his way up to the tech business. Chris started his own company in September 2014 called LifterLMS. He is also the co-founder of Organic Life Guru as of 2013. Now he helps educate entrepreneurs on how to create, launch, and scale high-value online training platforms from the WordPress websites that they own and control.
Resources discussed in this episode:
--
Contact Pua Pakele | RBL Media:
Contact Chris Badgett | Lifter LMS:
--
Transcript:
Chris 0:00
That would be my advice. And a lot of people get the tools too early. But that's okay. I mean, if you've already bought some tools, and you're kind of messing around, that's cool, but slow down and get the strategy, right. And figure out who you're helping and how.
Pualena 0:13
Amazing, well, Chris, thank you so much for being here today. I cannot wait to geek out with you on all of this course creation, course platform juiciness. So, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for being here.
Chris 0:28
Thanks for having me, Pua. This is my favourite topic. I can go on and on about it. So, I'm excited to see where this conversation leads.
Pualena 0:35
Me too, oh, my gosh, I like I can't wait. I need you to just jump in and give us all of the juiciness. How did you get into this world?
Chris 0:47
Wow. It's a big question. It actually started in Alaska. So, I used to not be a technology person. I actually used to live up on a glacier. And I managed a helicopter-supported sled dog tour business in southeast Alaska. And I did that for about 10 years. And during that time, I learned about leadership because I had a team of like 30 people, couple 100 dogs, working logistics, pretty, complex stuff. I learned how to how, to like run a business and stuff. So, I was learning a lot about leadership. And then also, I started studying marketing. And I wanted to start writing about it and blogging about leadership. So, I bought my first domain name, it was called Outdoor Leadership Secrets. And I had, I've found a YouTube video, I installed WordPress. And I learned WordPress. And just fast forward the story. The quick version is after I left Alaska, I started a website development agency, building it building on top of WordPress. I also am very entrepreneurial, and I wanted to do some online courses. So, I started partnering with my wife, with other experts in the organic gardening and permaculture niche. So, we started doing courses then I started blogging about that, how I did it with WordPress, and then all these people wanted to like hire me to build that kind of site. And then they wanted a tool that didn't exist in WordPress, so I built it in 2014. That's the birth of Lifter LMS or learning management system plugin for WordPress. So, that is the quick course creator software entrepreneur story.
Pualena 2:30
Oh my gosh, I love it. It almost feels like, like a lot of people go from working in tech, to totally unplugging and going and doing something like living in Alaska and working with sled dogs. You went the opposite way.
Chris 2:44
I did, you know when I was, I was on the glacier. And I also my boss at the time, I helped him train for the Iditarod sled dog race. And people would come up to the, his tour business in the summer. And they would often say, Man, I wish I had done what you've done when I was younger. So, when I was younger I did that, I did I've done a ton of climbing, mountaineering, travelling around the country travelling around the world. But as I got older, I became more of a homebody, I had my, my daughters, and yeah, I kind of went the other way into tech. But I live in an organic farm, I keep bees. I am very much like into nature. So, I'm either kind of all online or completely off my house powered by solar panels. So, I'm very much connected to nature. And it's really how I stay sane in all of this.
Pualena 3:31
You might be my favourite human. It’s so awesome. I have a lot of questions. Okay, I will try to keep them of course, specific. But I would like to dig into organic farming if we have time. So, I am so, so sort of fascinated by the idea that you created LMS software, and specifically for WordPress, because that tends to be so much of a pain point for people that it has pushed them to move off of WordPress and onto, you know, course creation platforms. And that's sort of my experience personally and most of my clients. So, I would love to hear, sort of why people maybe should choose to stay on WordPress and utilize your software versus going to a course creation platform.
Chris 4:26
I think it goes both ways. So, there's a lot of different types of course creators and situations out there. And if I were to just at a high level, let's say compare Lifter LMS which is on WordPress, and then Kajabi a popular hosted platform. Kajabi is gonna give you more ease of use Lifter and WordPress is gonna give you way more features, flexibility, power, but it's harder to drive and you can get yourself into trouble. So, a lot of the people that buy our software are actually people who build old sites for clients and agencies and stuff like that, that they've been in WordPress for a long time. But there's also the DIY person, there's a certain type of person, now I see people all the time go from, oh, they hate WordPress, and they leave or they end up feeling trapped on the hosted platform. And they come to WordPress, it goes both ways. So, I think what makes WordPress a fit is for people that they kind of, kind of fall in love or get addicted with the technology a little bit. And they're okay with like troubleshooting and, you know, installing all these tools made by different companies, and in some way, in a kind of a sadistic way, they have fun with that. That's like the perfect person and for WordPress, and then also, they're also able to create a lot of content like the way a course creator needs to. So, but yeah, it goes both ways. I mean, Kajabi, think if a teachable, podia, these are all great hosted platforms. There's just that WordPress professional out there. And then the DIY person who just loves to kind of nerd out in the tech that ends up on the WordPress side.
Pualena 6:07
I love it. I think I completely agree with you. I think WordPress, those are the two platforms I build on WordPress and Kajabi, primarily so and they're, they're so incredibly different. And there's like, what really breaks my heart is, and I'm so glad I met you, is when people have a WordPress site that they've either invested quite a bit of money with a developer or designer. And they really love it, but they are moving because they are, they're moving into the core space, maybe they've been trying to integrate the two for a while and they just want it to be in one place. And you know, hosting courses on WordPress, probably if people don't know about you, is really kind of clunky and cumbersome. And there's a lot of like, integrations with multiple platforms, but they don't want to let go of that site. And it's just not the same. If you recreate it elsewhere. It really isn't. And I love that WordPress is so customizable, it's open source, there's like an infinite number of resources and plugins, and you can make it do whatever you want. And these other builders, they're very user friendly, as you said, but they're very limited, they're very simple. So, I love that you're giving people the option to stay where they're at, where they're comfortable, you know where they've invested already, rather than having to reinvest again. So, I'd love to sort of dive into what your platform and your software provides, for course creators that we can't find elsewhere.
Chris 7:37
Sure, so in the early days of Lifter LMS, this is like 2013 14, what people would do in WordPress, which kind of gave it the stigma of, oh, it's hard to do courses or membership sites, is they would get like a membership plugin, and then they get this other plugin for progress tracking, and they would get this other plugin that does some kind of video thing. And this other plugin to do gamification if they wanted things to pop up, or certificates or whatever. So, what, what we did from the beginning is like, we're going to be an all-in-one solution. So, we built our own e-commerce system, we build the LMS system, the reporting, the courses, the membership protection, the gamification, the achievement badges, certificates, it's all Lifter. And we give 80% of it away for free and our free plugin, that's our contribution. And you mentioned open source and, and that whole community, but then we monetize with some premium features and integrations. So, some premium features might be social learning, like if you want to have like a Facebook, like group on your website, some of our premium add-ons, if you want to sell your course at scale, and the organization likes to large group, like a school or government or a business where there's kind of this management layer, where people need to get their employees or students taking courses and kind of keep tabs on their analytics. That's an example. Premium add-on we have called groups. Any pricing models possible. So, our E-commerce integrations, like for taking the money through Stripe or PayPal? You know, that's, those are premium add-ons. So, there's a lot there's a lot you can do. There's like, you know, when I look at e-learning, there's, there's like 12 different main use cases, you know, the course creator and the coach is just one of those. So, like if you want to build like a course marketplace like Udemy, or you want to have a business where you're just trying to train the employees, you're not trying to sell anything or you want to lock it down from the public. There's all kinds of different ways to kind of flex the tool to, to the use case you want to do but that's kind of at a high level. What, what Lifter is and what it's all about?
Pualena 9:52
Yeah, I love that so much. It sounds like you just listed off a few features and it already kind of fills so many gaps of other both WordPress plugins and other full course platforms. It's, it's really cool to be talking to somebody who is invested in the innovation of this software. And it's not necessarily a ginormous company that needs to go through all of these hoops to get a feature launched.
Chris 10:20
Yeah, and it's, this is a nuanced, like you mentioned. And I mentioned Lifters kind of all in one. Kajabi is an example of kind of all on one like the websites included and some of the email features. But we're both there's also nuance, we're both like, not all on one, like, if you're using WordPress and Lifter, well, you gotta get website hosting, and you're probably gonna want a CRM, like Active Campaign, or ConvertKit, or MailChimp or something and integrate those together. Whereas, Kajabi or teachable or whoever has their limitations, you know, and the reality is, I think most of us work with Zapier. So, you can always get wherever you need to go. So, at the end of the day, we're not as different as it sounds, in some ways. So, what I'm saying is, there is no true all-in-one. Most people, most online entrepreneurs need a handful of tools made by different companies to run their businesses. And maybe the what categories or tools you need are slightly different. On the hosted platform versus WordPress, still a mix of tools, you'd need to run a business, which when you create information products selling all over the world and stuff like that, it's no small miracle that you can kind of use like 10 tools or so to create this online business, it's really pretty amazing what you can do. So, there's a, there's a reward for that complexity and that learning curve.
Pualena 11:45
Absolutely. And I think as business owners and entrepreneurs, problem-solving, and sort of that, like the adrenaline rush of solving like little puzzles, and that's in our DNA. So, and I love what you said also, about, like, there's, there is a platform for every need. And a lot of times people, so I do, you know, web designing, course design, and I'll jump on consultations with people who don't have courses yet. And they don't even, some of them have no digital space at all, you know, they might have some, like, I spoke with somebody who has a, like a LinkedIn bio page in their Instagram, and that's their website, and no email manager, nothing. There, they're thriving, and they're just operating off of a very lean system. And they're just looking to grow and sort of scale their business at this point. And they were like, just tell me what platform I need. I was like, you know, on my end, the, I can build on different platforms. It's a matter of what you need now and almost more importantly, what you will need in the near, the near future. But there's, you know, I can't necessarily say that every entrepreneur, every business owner, or every course creator, should be on X, Y & Z platform, right? It's sort of what do you need for your business? And what do you, what role are you going to play in this?
Chris 13:16
Yeah, and I, I would say that a lot of people focus too much on the tools, like, it's really the strategy that matters and where you're going and what your requirements are, and not even necessarily what you want, but what your target market needs. Like, there's all this strategic stuff that has to happen. And, you know, when we first launched Lifter LMS, as an example, we had a high-end WordPress agency that, you know, we kind of bootstrap the product out of, and even when we launched Lifter, we did it on LeadPages, which is like a hosted website builder, because we needed to validate the product, that there was a market for this. So, we didn't like build this crazy, elaborate thing. It's a work, it's a work in progress over time. So, yeah, I think sometimes it's a big problem in our industry, we call it failure to launch where people get all these tools, and they get all this training. And maybe they even start like making some content. But it's really easy to get in the weeds and end up days, months, years down the road without launching and my heart goes out to that. I think that's really one of the reasons why podcasts like yours are super valuable to help people get there through those, those key ideas to kind of remove those roadblocks and help people get clarity before they get too busy in the tech and the tools and the marketing and everything else.
Pualena 14:36
Absolutely. It's like the person who's like, I want to be a runner and so they buy the running shoes. They buy the running outfit, they buy the running programs. What do you need to be a runner? You just need to run.
Chris 14:51
Yeah. Or even not.
Pualena 14:54
Right, exactly. Right. Totally. Yeah, I love that and it's so, It's very easy to get lost in the information that's out there. And you can google like, what should my course platform be and great way to not actually move forward and take action?
Chris 15:14
Yeah, and that's a problem. There's a lot of magic bullets out there, whether it's courses, platforms, or marketing tools or strategy for selling courses, there are no magic bullets. So, it's really like an integrated approach. And I think what people really need is that like, minimalist guide to help them, you know, kind of get moving, get started, avoid the big pitfalls. And you can always introduce complexity later, but go as minimal as possible. That's one of the problems people have with WordPress is, especially when they fall in love with it. Next thing you know, there's like 100 plugins on the site. You can, you can launch a whole online course business with WordPress, and Lifter, and one, one Lifter LMS payment gateway, two plugins and you're done. Like I was, start there. You don't need the 100, 100 stuff.
Pualena 16:06
Yeah, for sure. So, let's say somebody's listening to this, and they're like, Okay, this is exactly the episode I needed to hear I am, I'm all in, I'm ready to start. What is your guidance for people, if they're just sort of, they're just signing up for Lifter LMS? They don't have anything quite yet. Like, what would be the minimal, minimally viable sort of path for them to get a course out to market?
Chris 16:33
That's awesome. We actually have a course in our academy on our software site, called the course plan challenge. And it's like a five-day, one-hour-a-day process to go from zero to having a plan which removes all the chaos, not all of it but. And just to go over briefly what happens on those five days. One is really about getting, getting your headspace, right. So, making the creative space in your life to be able to make the commitment, then there's about choosing your avatar getting really focused on them, not you making money online or doing what you want to do, but the avatar, then we get into how to like design a curriculum around the result that your avatar wants through a proven simple teaching framework. Even if you've never had a background in teaching or instructional design, as it's called. And then we go over how to think about making sure your students have the highest odds of success, not just from your content, but by designing a support system. So, that your course will actually work. And that's pretty much it. So, there's a lot of areas in there where people hang up, or they skip, like if you don't know who your avatar is, if you're just trying to make money online, or if you haven't made the space in your life to, like I'm broadcasting to you this is like a tiny house cabin I built in the backyard. It's like my podcast work on my business area, like I have the space. And I know not everybody can do that. But you got to at least carve out the time at the kitchen counter to make the commitment. Like that's, that's step one. But yeah, I could go on and on. That would be my advice. And a lot of people get the tools too early. But that's okay. I mean, if you've already bought some tools, and you're kind of messing around, that's cool, but slow down and get the strategy right, and figure out who you're helping and how.
Pualena 18:27
That is gold. And that's available through like, once you download the Lifter LMS plugin, you get access to those trainings.
Chris 18:37
Yeah, there's links to it inside of Lifter LMS and stuff like that. I've just been around this challenge for a long time, people try to get started and we have other resources as well. Another one is about how to get your first 10 enrollments. There's nothing more disheartening than, you know, launching and especially if you don't have any background in marketing or something like that, to get that. So, we have some resources for that. We've been in this industry for over a decade. You know, I've got a podcast of 400 episodes, about course creation called LMS Cast. So, go check it out, I interview a lot of successful course creators. So, there's start to see the patterns of what works and that kind of thing. So, check out LMS Cast as well.
Pualena 19:17
Brilliant. I love what you said also about how the intention for creating the course is really important, right? It's so common now for people to say, I just want some passive income and I heard courses are the way to do that. Like, well, sort of true, but, so, you know, understanding like what your expertise is and having that passion to share it I think is a really key component to just wanting to serve people and with the right marketing, the right messaging, the right promotion, the money, the money will come.
Chris 19:55
Yeah, absolutely.
Pualena 19:57
Do you have any sort of thoughts on the promotion process. Some people are, the people are always asking, should I do like a fixed cart, open cart close? Should I have this be a recurring thing? Should I have a membership versus like a fixed payment model? What? Let's geek out on that a little bit. What are your thoughts there?
Chris 20:19
Well, the first thing is to try to validate before, like marketing should come in the front a little bit, you know, make sure you have an offer, you can set like a course start date in the future, even if you haven't created all this stuff yet, work on your sales page for your offer and try to pre-sell it. That's, that's advice. Number one. The other thing that you can do is you can actually your first version of the course if you create it live with a group of people, it's not going to be perfect, but that way you have the feedback loop open with real human beings. So, instead of just making all these assumptions on what people need, the live group will let you know where they get stuck, where they need more clarification, or if what you're teaching doesn't land, or where it lands well. And all that feedback is super helpful. Those people then become like your early testimonials, word of mouth, referral, and so on, affiliates, even potentially, I also am a big believer in just moving the free line. Like I mentioned earlier, we give away most of our software for free. I think every course creator should have a free course as a lead magnet, or even just take some of the best lessons in the course, make it free. So, the best marketing is a good product. So, make it available, not just everything behind a paywall. I'm a big content marketing guy, ie. for 400 podcast episodes, we have over 1000 videos on our YouTube channel. But I know that sounds like a lot. And that's overwhelming for a lot of people. I do see people do well with paid, paid media ad, you know, ads through different platforms. The other one is just partnerships. So, like the first courses I did in organic gardening and permaculture. I’m the tech guy and the marketing guy, my wife has a background in conservation-based agriculture. And we were working on the project together. And we just went to Amazon and we, we did a Google search for permaculture, found the best-selling author in the world. His name is Toby Hemenway on it. And we got in touch with Toby, and he was recording a live workshop. It was like hey, can we come film it, will partner with you, did that over and over again, travelled to different countries and filmed these live workshops that many in that industry had not really come online yet. So, by partnering and not doing it all by yourself, sometimes that's a big unlock. That is a trend I see with some of the most successful course creators is there's often like more than one person doing stuff. Or it's like a partnership like that three-way partnership I was talking about with the expert, the technologists and the like subject matter expert. So, there's, so like, even if something like WordPress scares you as an example, there's a lot of course creators who like, I don't want to log in to it or anything, but I just want all the stuff I can get with that. Or maybe you're on Kajabi. And that's cool. And you hire like a professional film crew and editing. Now then there's the dilemma of well, I need to have sales first. So, everybody needs to figure out how to bootstrap, if you don't have outside resources. I still see people selling courses on Gumroad with like a little PDF downloads with like a link to some like videos or even a Google document as like a course. If your content and your method is really good. It can be super simple. So, I'm kind of rambling, but I'm just throwing some ideas on getting your early customers and how to think about partnerships as well.
Pualena 23:48
Yeah, you said some incredible things. It's funny Gumroad. That's where we launched our first product. So, I had a business partner, and we, it was probably 2014. And I remember we had this, we had a podcast, and we had all these dreams of having the podcast, you know, we would get sponsors and we'd have all these downloads, and we'd make tons of money just having a podcast. And then maybe four months into it. We're like, well, that didn't pan out quite right. Like why are we making money? Oh, yeah, there's nothing that we're selling. So, we created this PDF, and we sold it on Gumroad for like 9.99, great platform, super simple. It works great. But what I loved so much about what you said is and you almost like glossed over it as if it was like unimportant and it was so epic. Pre-selling your course. It's, it's like, you know, what, do people find the message valuable enough to buy? Do they believe in you and that you're going to deliver? What a great way to hold yourself accountable to actually completing the course because people have already bought it. That's tons of people get hung up there. They're like, I want a course. And then they start creating it. And then they create, like 30% of the content. And then life happens, and they never finish it. One of my favourite strategies, what's the word for actually, keeping up with your course creation schedule is, even if it's not going to be like content that's dripped. When the course is done. Let's say you do a six-week content calendar, bring people in at when you're done creating, like week two, or three and drip the content out weekly. So, they're sort of chasing you. And yeah, I think that was, that's just such a brilliant way for people to understand that, yes, people will buy this, and I better get my butt in gear and get it created.
Chris 25:44
I got another tip just to throw out there. There's four, like main types of courses. And sometimes this helps people get unblocked in the beginning. One is, like you mentioned, a, like a six-week program or something like that. This is, that's kind of like a learning process. Like, by the end of this six weeks, you'll be able to do X, we're gonna go on this journey. There's other course types, like around behaviour change. So, if you're going to, like help somebody, you know, go from, become a runner from being out of shape, or whatever, or quit a bad habit or something like that. Then there's the, what I call case study courses, where you learn by just studying the proven models of what works like from stories. The most dangerous type, of course, which most course creators end up making, and it causes a lot of problems is what I call a resource course. So, I'm an expert in beekeeping, I'm just going to make everything I know and kind of create a library of good beekeeping advice or ideas or how-to’s, those can get overwhelming, they can get hard to finish, they can be hard to consume. And the last type, of course, is a hybrid, where you mix and match some of those elements. So, if you're just starting out, I like to recommend, if you can, based on your subject matter, is to do a learner process course. Because that's just it's just more straightforward. If we're going to, you know, learn how to run our first marathon or weave a basket, or I don't know, find the love of our life, or whatever it is like, you have to, it forces the course creator to have a clear end result. And then milestones and steps along the way to get that result for a specific type of person.
Pualena 27:26
For sure, I'm so glad that you identified and differentiated those because I think sometimes it gets a little bit fuzzy in our heads. And for a lot of people who are–
Chris 27:35
It’s called the experts, experts curse, that's so common.
Pualena 27:40
Totally. And I, I love also that you said that, when we, when our goal is to just get our expertise out on paper, or courses, we end up sort of like word vomiting, and like laundry listing all of these things that we know. And it's nobody's fault. Like, that's just sort of the trap that we fall in. And there's no journey. Right? It's just like, here's all the things that I know about, and you'll find them useful. So, here. And I love that you put emphasis on the transformation, the outcome, the end result, not only is that what people want to buy, but it's so good for your, for your marketing message and sort of getting people to understand what it is that they're actually putting their money into. Yeah, brilliant. Oh, my gosh, I love it. So, if we're creating a course, regardless of sort of what the, the course structure, we decide, as we put that together, we're also thinking about price point, payment options, do we want to have this as a sort of product that people are going to buy and own? Is this going to be more of a membership model? What are your thoughts on how people can differentiate between those two? And a lot of, I have a lot of clients who come to me, they're like, I want a membership. And then they give me a course outline. And I'm like, okay, once people are opted into the membership, and they get access to this content, what's keeping them there? You know, how are they going to continue to get value if you want to continue to collect money from them? So, what are your thoughts on that? And sort of what guidance would you, would you give people for that decision?
Chris 29:30
I have a lot of thoughts. So, on our website, actually just lf lms.com There's a course and membership pricing calculator that you can find around the blog and the podcast.
Pualena 29:38
You've thought of everything.
Chris 29:40
Basically, I've been in this industry for a while. I'll go ahead and tell you listening right now how to, where the price comes from, is three variables. The first is the perceived value of the result that you're promising. So, if I'm going to help you find your soulmate, pretty high value. If I'm going to help you to become like a six-figure, small business owner or something pretty high value. If I'm going to help you declutter your home, pretty valuable, but not, depending on it also depends on the person. So, but different transformations have different perceived value, then there's the target market's willingness to pay. So, if you're a new parent, if it's for new parents, their budget may be a little strapped, if it's for successful entrepreneurs looking to go from six to seven figures, or whatever it is, they may have more budget. Different target markets literally have different financial resources on average. So, you have to be real about that. Even if, you know you're targeting young parents or something like that, you just, even though it might be really valuable, like they did, most of them just can't pay for that. And then the third one is the level of support you provide. So, I was in a coaching program, that I paid like five figures for, pretty expensive, but the main person was like they're involved helping with the business. But if you look at like masterclass, you can learn comedy from Steve Martin or, or learn how to DJ from a famous DJ, but these people are not going to help you mix your song or tell your jokes. So, one of the ways we can differentiate is the level of access to you, the creator personally, or and if you're bigger, like your team or your support system. So, those are the three axes. And then when it comes to like whether I want to create a course, or a membership site, or coaching program, or whatever you want to call this learning opportunity. Recurring revenue sounds great. But to do that, you have to do recurring value. So, my advice is usually for a new person to start with like a small course, a mini course, there's these different types of creators. So, just to put the main models out there, some people make this like, epic course. And they relaunch it every year, or twice a year or whatever. And it just, it just keeps getting better and better every year. That's like kind of like the epic course those are cool. But I recommend kind of building into that, if that's what you want to do. Other entrepreneurs kind of have, like, the they get bored, the serial entrepreneur that they're better off creating a membership site, and then with lots of little courses in it. So, there's, you're nodding your head, maybe you're kind of like that person, I don't know. But then the other thing is like, you can create a membership site and then bring in like I was talking about guest instructors, or that you do partnerships with and you pay them for their time, or you get on the content with them, however, you want to do it. So, those are kind of the different models. But to create recurring revenue, you really have to either be launching new programs, or continuously updating the thing that you have, or providing ongoing support and coaching. So, that's, that's the way I like to think about it. And my, my pro tip for you out there is, the easiest way to add recurring revenue, if you're just doing a one-off course, is to just add something like a office hours, where once a month, once a week, once every two weeks, you jump on a zoom. It's one too many, it's group, and you timebox it to a certain amount of time. And that's the easiest way to add recurring value. And it'll also tell you a lot about your market, because they're going to be asking you questions about where you're stuck. So, the next time you redo your course or do another one, you know exactly what problems you need to fix.
Pualena 33:32
Yeah, it's brilliant. It's, you want recurring revenue, provide recurring value? It's as easy as that, right? Well, easy. Yeah, I love that. I think that it's, we often get very wrapped up in what's possible and what other people are doing. Oh, Amy Porterfield is doing this. I should do that, too. James Wedmore, does it like this, right? And it's that, there's also like, I always caution people to compare themselves or to model after these huge, huge names in the industry, because I think they can get away with things that we can't, at this point, right? Like, their name is behind it. They've got years and years and years and big teams behind what they do. And I love your advice. Start small and build from there, instead of shooting for this big epic thing that we may get too overwhelmed with and then never finish it. Or what if, we if we go the other way? I love when people have like a series of small, as you said, sort of small offers and then you can bundle them and sell them as a package. So yeah, you are full of great advice. I’m going to ask you like 100 more questions. And I should also remember to ask how people can opt into your podcast, get involved with what you're doing and you shared a lot of incredible resources. And I'm curious if you have any paid courses or memberships, or anything that, that people can opt into as well.
Chris 35:09
I'm mostly a software guy with Lifter LMS. But we do have an Academy with some resources, many courses around different topics. So go to lifterlms.com and our podcast LMS Cast, it's just crossing 400 episodes, as of this recording, we're actually redoing the site, site right now. So, hopefully, it looks good when you, when you hear this, and it goes out. But yeah, there's some resources there. And that's an interview show. So, I interview experts, you know, I provide software for building courses, and membership sites and E-commerce components on WordPress. But I was constantly hit with all these questions about marketing or about instructional design, or these inner game issues and impostor syndrome and all these things. So, my solution to that, I believe that you should put your customer at the centre of your business, not the product. And when we do that, I'm like, alright, I'm helping them with this tool, the software, but they need help with all this other stuff, too. So, that's when the podcast was born. So, if you like listening to podcasts, there's also a YouTube version or whatever, check out LMS Cast.
Pualena 36:17
Amazing that is, so, I love so much that you are, you created this software. And you are also the person who is getting resources out there talking to clients, talking to other experts and bringing really this like holistic approach to course creation, rather than just pushing to sell your software, right, it's so much more than that, it's so much bigger than just a software sale, it is providing a service and a community for people to understand exactly how to get their product to market. And I think it's, you know, anybody that has the desire to create an online course, and that actually does it, they have to have that inner passion for what they're teaching. It's, you won't succeed without that. And to be able to connect with somebody like you who truly just has their back, you know, yes, you're providing this great platform for people to actually provide the, the content and great resources on how to price your course, which is like pricing is the most mind-bending thing for entrepreneurs, no matter what you sell. Delivery, strategies, and even you know, putting a course outline together that makes sense that retains their client that provides a transformation. I love that you provide as much of these other resources as possible to complement the product that you sell. So, thank you for doing that.
Chris 37:50
Yeah, my life mission is my company mission, which is to lift up others through education. And that's what's so, the big opportunity for course creators and entrepreneurs too, is education and entrepreneurship is really how we send out positive ripples into the world and change the lives of others in positive ways. So, that's what keeps me going. And I know it keeps a lot of course creators going as well as other entrepreneurs.
Pualena 38:14
Yeah. Incredible. Thank you so much for all that you do, for creating this space. How can I support you? How can our audience connect with you? Aside from, from visiting the website? Is there any other call to action that you want to share today?
Chris 38:31
I would just say you can find me on Twitter, I believe the person that's closest to the customer wins. So, we optimize for conversations over conversions. And you know what, everything works out fine on them on the other end of all that, so? If any? If you ever want to connect, you can find me on Twitter @chrisbadgett. That's where I'm the most active. But yeah, that's it.
Pualena 38:52
Brilliant. Well, thank you so so much. This was absolutely incredible. I hope people got tons of value from this. And yeah, let's stay in touch. I can't wait to hear how LifterLMS evolves. And I'm excited to explore the platform myself.
Chris 39:04
Thanks, Pua.