It might seem obvious to most of us that when you put cleanser on to wash your face, you rinse it off before you moisturise.

But when Kiwi duo, Two Dudes Skincare, road-tested their products they found some men needed a bit more help with the basics… and that by getting men more into skincare routines there are wider well-being gains to be had too.

One of the two dudes, Tomas Tappin, joined Tova O'Brien on Thursday morning to discuss how their business concept came about.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.