Credits:
Music Track Title: Everybody Loves a Catastrophe; Licence type: Standard Licence; Artist: Twirl; Composer: Neal Busby & Huguette Arsenault (SOCAN); Publisher: Lynne Publishing (PRS - CAE#: 541626758)
Logo Artist: Avril Orloff; Outsidethelines.ca
Transcript:
Welcome to the podcast. Risk is the new kale. Each episode I talk with folks who have figured out how to extract opportunity from risk. As someone who has spent a career controlling risk, I want to know those who embrace it. Risk is the new kale. Good for you, hard to take.
I'm curious whether we make different risk decisions about choices in our career when we're in our 40s or 50s then we do when we're 19. I guess one thought is that we have a lot of lived experience and so by the time we're in the middle of our careers, maybe we are more reflective. We have more things that we worry about and so our tradeoff decisions take longer. And when we're 19, everything is possible and the world is right at our feet. That's one potential outcome, but maybe we actually have exactly the same risk tolerance when we're 19 that we do when we're 40 or 50, it's a question of our values and just what we want out of life. Hey I want to welcome Zoe to the podcast. Risk is the new kale Zoe. Thank you for joining me today. Thanks for having me so Zoe is 19, a student and an international model. And she is represented by deja Vu model management. Hi, everyone. So great to have you with us, Zoe. I wanted to ask you some questions just because you're really seeing opportunity and this is a career. Hmm. You're weighing, you know, what are the risks and the rewards for this kind of career. So what is it that you you hope for from doing modeling at this point in your life? I hope for the opportunity just to travel and like meet new people around the world like growing up in a small town you get definitely can be isolating, so I'm excited to just explore and meet new people and hopefully get jobs and. Just have fun honestly. Yeah, that's so great. Good for you. You have such an open attitude. You're just like, OK, this is going to be a learning experience. I'm just like wanna go there and have fun and ignoring the experience like while I'm there right? And maybe you can describe where where are you gonna go? I'm going to Shanghai, China. So it's definitely a big jump from a small town to like the third largest city in the world. So
it's gonna be really exciting. I guess the thing I would be interested in knowing from you is what surprised you about modeling so far. Anyone can just do it and I think you need to put a lot of effort into actually get to where you want to be at. And for me like this took. Two years for me to get signed like internationally like I worked hard like I went to lots of conventions, did a lot of photo shoots and did like tried to do free work just to get signed internationally. So when you get to be my age and you look back on your career. What? What advice do you think you would have for the 19 year old self? I think my advice would be to be open minded and like. Open to new experiences, because definitely it's a culture shock from Canada to China and there's going to be differences. And also I just want to take risks and not let other peoples like perception of me or what I'm doing make me insecure and make me not want to do it. I just want to live my life to the fullest without letting other people affect what I do. I hope they my age Zoe remembers what? She told herself when she was 19. That's so great, yeah? What do you think of risk as the new kale as a podcast title? I love it. I love it so much. I actually was talking while we were eating dinner and we were eating kale and really excellent. And we were talking like. I think the only way to move forward in life is to take risks. And let yourself be vulnerable in front of other people. And if you don't do that, then you're going to be stuck in one place for like the rest of your life. And that's like kale, like you have to be healthy
and you have to better yourself in different ways. How do you know what is the right amount of risk when you think about decisions in your life, you've you're in school right now. And university. You have these really great friends and you've made a decision about what people are in your life like. How do you kind of think about trade offs and taking risks. I feel like everyone has this different perception of risk, like my like. Biggest risk could be someone's like smallest risk. You know, like it's also, it's all different. I just like wanted like not cave into my insecurities, not be insecure and be scared of like what people will say to me and so that's something I'm working on so. Because you're right, everybody does have different risk tolerance, yeah? Big risk for me is like jumping off a plane. And like skydiving, you know. But also a big risk for me is like putting myself out there. Maybe like in relationships or but like when you think about it. What's the worst thing that could happen from rejection? Exactly like who knows what goes on inside someone else's mind, right? Like the decisions that they're making. Maybe there's something going on that's deeply impactful for them and they just can't be in the present with you at that moment. Yeah, exactly. You can never like understand what another person is going through, so like someone else's reaction towards something like you do like it's all like in their hands. Kind of like I'm not gonna take something that someone said personally to me because maybe they're going through something that I don't know about and they're just putting their anger like I feel like there's a lot of people in the world that need to learn that lesson. Do you have a personal mantra? I don't know, I'm me and my friends are really into like manifesting and like we go on manifest drives. So like
it's like it sounds kind of cringe but it's just like we go and we just like talk about what we want. Like we already have it instead of like like wishing for it. We kind of like put our mindset to like we already have this and we're working towards it really well. How did you come up with that? Where did you learn that? Well my friend she's really into manifestations so like she. And I got me into it and then yesterday was like February
but may be different priorities at this particular time in life. Yeah, I think like everyone right now everyone I'm talking to. Has like different things going on, it's not like when I was in high school where we all kind of had similar issues or similar thoughts about. I know high school things you know now it's like real life stuff that everyone's kind of like and all at different. Everyone's at a different point in their journey too, right? I guess that's the thing about 19 is you're an adult and your lives are starting to diverge and you may have very similar values because you all grew up in the same place and you're still friends. But as you say, there's different life circumstances, so you're kind of bringing maybe a different lens to each one of those. OK, I'm pretty sure when I was 19 I could not articulate a difference in a risk tolerance decision between me and my friends. I'm sure I could have said that they made different choices and I would have described those, but to have the language that I think young adults have today and. Maybe that part of what we've gone through in the last couple of years where we've actually had open conversations about the tradeoff between what society needs and what individuals must do or not do. Given that we've come through a pandemic. Perhaps some of that ability to describe opportunity through risk has now become just part of everyday language and very interesting, but also heartening to know that people are able to look into another person's decisions and perhaps way. A tolerance difference or a life timing, decision, difference and just allow that to be held by the other person without passing judgment. I think that's great. What's the riskiest thing you've ever done in your life? I think a big
risk for me was like when I decided to leave like the university I was going to, I think that was a big thing in my life because it wasn't just about my feelings. I was like scared about other people's like thoughts on it and I didn't want them to think about oh she left because she like couldn't do the school work or she couldn't do it like that was like a really vague like stressor for me when I left. And yet you overcame that. Yeah, like you were like, no, I need to make the right call for myself and I'm so happy I did. Because like once I realized like I was like, I don't really care what other people are saying and if they do have an opinion like they don't know my experience. And. I'm doing like the exact same things, just like in a different area. That's because now I like have this big opportunity to like go to China and also study feel like end up falling in your right path instead of. Being unhappy, I guess totally. I totally agree with you. I I over my lifetime, I've kind of had to weigh big decisions. And I've sort of said, OK, let's just pretend I've made that decision. Do I feel relief or do I feel stress? And if my body actually relaxed when I sort of believed I had already made the decision, I was like, Oh well, that's obvious. That's the decision I have to make. Like it's kind of worth it, like moving on and some like you can't make everything single thing in your life perfect. You know there's this mantra in the technical world that not everything can be important or nothing is. And I feel like you already live that it's like, OK, this is an all important. I'm going to actually concentrate on the stuff that is and I'm not going to sweat over all the details. Eventually there's a point where you have to call it, and that probably happens in modeling too, right? You're going to go to a lot of go sees, and sometimes you're going to be picked, and sometimes you're not. So do you have a sense of how you're going to? Just sort of not sweat it. I
just keep like I keep having like this doubt in my mind that's like like did they make a mistake like are they needing to fix someone else like I don't know like. Yeah, that's imposter syndrome. Nice yeah. So like I keep having that, but then I have to keep like telling myself like I was chosen for a reason like this agency has a belief in me that I can. Get jobs and get work there and let they see me working in China so I have to go in with confidence because if you don't. Build yourself up with confidence and you go in insecure like that person isn't going to want to. Hire you like life. I feel like it's 90% confidence even if you don't even have it. Like fake it till you make it type of thing you know.
You know another question that I have for you. Zoe is. You're planning on traveling overseas. You have two to three month contract that is being tied up in a really big city that you haven't been to before. I just curious to understand what risks do you see in traveling overseas to model? Well, I have like a lot of trust in my agency that I'm going there with. I definitely am like more nervous because I feel like I'm a little naive like I never lock my door like when I leave my house. You have to have your guard up, maybe in a different sort of way. Yeah, I think Clyde burgard up and just like more like mindful that you don't know like every single person in this town so you don't really have like a trust with that person. I feel like I need to be more like protective of myself. But honestly, like not trying to like get myself too scared. I don't think I have to be scared of like every situation. So I definitely think I'll have my guard up. It's just I need to remember like once I adapt to living there I can't like. Compare it to a small town because it's not the same. Free out. You seem very dialed in on that. Umm?
I think that there are so many people who are in kind of public roles like the one you're talking about, particularly creative roles where, yeah, you have to. How you present is the thing that you bring in the moment, and you kind of protect the squishy part of you like I'm going to protect that. But you can be both right. You can have both. You can feel nervous or have a squishy bit inside and then still project this amazing confidence. Some of the most confident people when you see them. They're not the people that. Like they knew, like have like this perfect image of like I feel like the most perfect people are like. OK with themselves and how they are and. They just like to move on with life, so yeah.
I'm really curious about how a photo shoot. Works like maybe you can just describe the process. What do you do to prepare what happens during a photo shoot? Well, to prepare for a photoshoot, it probably takes about like an hour and a half and then you get your makeup done, which can take from like 15 minutes. If you're in a rush to like minutes. And then the stylist has to pick out an outfit for you which can take like 30 minutes like up to 30 minutes. And then they'll photoshoot process is actually like way quicker than like 5 minutes to maybe like 25 minutes. And when you are ready to have the photos done, I'm assuming that. The photographer like, whether it's in a studio or outside. They give you some instructions like how do they typically like what? What's your interaction with them? Because they're kind of the creative in partnership with you, really, they usually pick like the location. But if you like work with the photographer more and more like there's one photographer I've worked with like a lot and I remember like my first photo shoot she gave me like the entire like. Time gave me direction and what to do. And then you kind of adapt to her style. Like over time. So then you kind of already know when you go into the photoshoot. You know you sort of see it on television and you think, OK, this is. You know how a photographer will speak to somebody to try and get different angles, and I've had my picture taken obviously for corporate headshots and stuff, and and that. The question that I asked the photographer was taking my pictures last time was, you know, I'm assuming all the best shots happen early in the photo shoot. And
he goes no, the best shots you know, kind of. The winners are at the end. Is that your experience? I feel like yeah, the first like couple minutes is like you just getting it comfortable in front of the camera and then once they start giving you pointers like chin down or like move your head to the side a bit more like that's one of the best photos come out. When you're relaxed, yeah. Nice. I'm interested in the fact that as an industry, modeling has really changed its center of gravity, so. So a model that you and I both know who's worked in the business for. 35 years when she was starting out and she was your age. The models from Canada went to Europe. And obviously the industry is really changed and so models from Canada are going to Asia. I guess that's where most of the work is. What do you understand to be going on in the industry, given that you're on the West Coast, here in Canada and you're heading across the ocean? Well, I definitely think from. Like the modeling industry has like been way more diverse in the last like 10 years than it has been like before. So I think with that. Europe is still like a really hot spot for modeling, but now like places like Mexico are even growing like a lot because like I'll have a agency that I went to and I went to a convention talking about how much the market has like exploded there and like people still have like doubts like going there, but there's like a lot of opportunities so I think with Asia that's like kind of the same thing. It's always like been like a little bit of a hot spot, but now it's like growing way more and go because like. Now with COVID 2, a lot of like buyers that I think in the country
would go to different places. Now we're like kind of relying on their like designers and their own countries and now every like Big city in the world or like big country is kind of like popping off. My question to Zoe is. If you could fix. Something on the planet? Doesn't have to be like the whole planet, just one thing. What would it be? Like especially like now in like Canada or like all over the world there's like this big divide and hate towards like one another like I know people are like losing friendships over like things that are going on in the world and I just wish like like my magical power would be like. There was more like acceptance and like. I guess with social media now it's really easy to put out opinions, other people to see it, and then it built. It gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I just wish that I know everyone was understanding of everyone. Well, you put that intention out into the world. Let's manifest it together, yeah.
OK, final question for you. So Zoe I would like to know. What is the tiniest thing that you know that makes the biggest difference in your life? I think like small acts of kindness from other people like and seeing like other people do, that for me makes me want to do that for like other people. When someone compliments you about your kindness or like you're giving or something like that like that makes you also feel good about yourself, you don't even realize you're doing it.
You can follow Zoe on Instagram. Zoey Elizabeth Baxter, her agency is deja vu modeling.
Welcome to the podcast. Risk is the new kale. Each episode I talk with folks who have figured out how to extract opportunity from risk. As someone who has spent a career controlling risk, I want to know those who embrace it. Risk is the new kale. Good for you, hard to take.
I'm curious whether we make different risk decisions about choices in our career when we're in our 40s or 50s then we do when we're 19. I guess one thought is that we have a lot of lived experience and so by the time we're in the middle of our careers, maybe we are more reflective. We have more things that we worry about and so our tradeoff decisions take longer. And when we're 19, everything is possible and the world is right at our feet. That's one potential outcome, but maybe we actually have exactly the same risk tolerance when we're 19 that we do when we're 40 or 50, it's a question of our values and just what we want out of life. Hey I want to welcome Zoe to the podcast. Risk is the new kale Zoe. Thank you for joining me today. Thanks for having me so Zoe is 19, a student and an international model. And she is represented by deja Vu model management. Hi, everyone. So great to have you with us, Zoe. I wanted to ask you some questions just because you're really seeing opportunity and this is a career. Hmm. You're weighing, you know, what are the risks and the rewards for this kind of career. So what is it that you you hope for from doing modeling at this point in your life? I hope for the opportunity just to travel and like meet new people around the world like growing up in a small town you get definitely can be isolating, so I'm excited to just explore and meet new people and hopefully get jobs and. Just have fun honestly. Yeah, that's so great. Good for you. You have such an open attitude. You're just like, OK, this is going to be a learning experience. I'm just like wanna go there and have fun and ignoring the experience like while I'm there right? And maybe you can describe where where are you gonna go? I'm going to Shanghai, China. So it's definitely a big jump from a small town to like the third largest city in the world. So
it's gonna be really exciting. I guess the thing I would be interested in knowing from you is what surprised you about modeling so far. Anyone can just do it and I think you need to put a lot of effort into actually get to where you want to be at. And for me like this took. Two years for me to get signed like internationally like I worked hard like I went to lots of conventions, did a lot of photo shoots and did like tried to do free work just to get signed internationally. So when you get to be my age and you look back on your career. What? What advice do you think you would have for the 19 year old self? I think my advice would be to be open minded and like. Open to new experiences, because definitely it's a culture shock from Canada to China and there's going to be differences. And also I just want to take risks and not let other peoples like perception of me or what I'm doing make me insecure and make me not want to do it. I just want to live my life to the fullest without letting other people affect what I do. I hope they my age Zoe remembers what? She told herself when she was 19. That's so great, yeah? What do you think of risk as the new kale as a podcast title? I love it. I love it so much. I actually was talking while we were eating dinner and we were eating kale and really excellent. And we were talking like. I think the only way to move forward in life is to take risks. And let yourself be vulnerable in front of other people. And if you don't do that, then you're going to be stuck in one place for like the rest of your life. And that's like kale, like you have to be healthy
and you have to better yourself in different ways. How do you know what is the right amount of risk when you think about decisions in your life, you've you're in school right now. And university. You have these really great friends and you've made a decision about what people are in your life like. How do you kind of think about trade offs and taking risks. I feel like everyone has this different perception of risk, like my like. Biggest risk could be someone's like smallest risk. You know, like it's also, it's all different. I just like wanted like not cave into my insecurities, not be insecure and be scared of like what people will say to me and so that's something I'm working on so. Because you're right, everybody does have different risk tolerance, yeah? Big risk for me is like jumping off a plane. And like skydiving, you know. But also a big risk for me is like putting myself out there. Maybe like in relationships or but like when you think about it. What's the worst thing that could happen from rejection? Exactly like who knows what goes on inside someone else's mind, right? Like the decisions that they're making. Maybe there's something going on that's deeply impactful for them and they just can't be in the present with you at that moment. Yeah, exactly. You can never like understand what another person is going through, so like someone else's reaction towards something like you do like it's all like in their hands. Kind of like I'm not gonna take something that someone said personally to me because maybe they're going through something that I don't know about and they're just putting their anger like I feel like there's a lot of people in the world that need to learn that lesson. Do you have a personal mantra? I don't know, I'm me and my friends are really into like manifesting and like we go on manifest drives. So like
it's like it sounds kind of cringe but it's just like we go and we just like talk about what we want. Like we already have it instead of like like wishing for it. We kind of like put our mindset to like we already have this and we're working towards it really well. How did you come up with that? Where did you learn that? Well my friend she's really into manifestations so like she. And I got me into it and then yesterday was like February
but may be different priorities at this particular time in life. Yeah, I think like everyone right now everyone I'm talking to. Has like different things going on, it's not like when I was in high school where we all kind of had similar issues or similar thoughts about. I know high school things you know now it's like real life stuff that everyone's kind of like and all at different. Everyone's at a different point in their journey too, right? I guess that's the thing about 19 is you're an adult and your lives are starting to diverge and you may have very similar values because you all grew up in the same place and you're still friends. But as you say, there's different life circumstances, so you're kind of bringing maybe a different lens to each one of those. OK, I'm pretty sure when I was 19 I could not articulate a difference in a risk tolerance decision between me and my friends. I'm sure I could have said that they made different choices and I would have described those, but to have the language that I think young adults have today and. Maybe that part of what we've gone through in the last couple of years where we've actually had open conversations about the tradeoff between what society needs and what individuals must do or not do. Given that we've come through a pandemic. Perhaps some of that ability to describe opportunity through risk has now become just part of everyday language and very interesting, but also heartening to know that people are able to look into another person's decisions and perhaps way. A tolerance difference or a life timing, decision, difference and just allow that to be held by the other person without passing judgment. I think that's great. What's the riskiest thing you've ever done in your life? I think a big
risk for me was like when I decided to leave like the university I was going to, I think that was a big thing in my life because it wasn't just about my feelings. I was like scared about other people's like thoughts on it and I didn't want them to think about oh she left because she like couldn't do the school work or she couldn't do it like that was like a really vague like stressor for me when I left. And yet you overcame that. Yeah, like you were like, no, I need to make the right call for myself and I'm so happy I did. Because like once I realized like I was like, I don't really care what other people are saying and if they do have an opinion like they don't know my experience. And. I'm doing like the exact same things, just like in a different area. That's because now I like have this big opportunity to like go to China and also study feel like end up falling in your right path instead of. Being unhappy, I guess totally. I totally agree with you. I I over my lifetime, I've kind of had to weigh big decisions. And I've sort of said, OK, let's just pretend I've made that decision. Do I feel relief or do I feel stress? And if my body actually relaxed when I sort of believed I had already made the decision, I was like, Oh well, that's obvious. That's the decision I have to make. Like it's kind of worth it, like moving on and some like you can't make everything single thing in your life perfect. You know there's this mantra in the technical world that not everything can be important or nothing is. And I feel like you already live that it's like, OK, this is an all important. I'm going to actually concentrate on the stuff that is and I'm not going to sweat over all the details. Eventually there's a point where you have to call it, and that probably happens in modeling too, right? You're going to go to a lot of go sees, and sometimes you're going to be picked, and sometimes you're not. So do you have a sense of how you're going to? Just sort of not sweat it. I
just keep like I keep having like this doubt in my mind that's like like did they make a mistake like are they needing to fix someone else like I don't know like. Yeah, that's imposter syndrome. Nice yeah. So like I keep having that, but then I have to keep like telling myself like I was chosen for a reason like this agency has a belief in me that I can. Get jobs and get work there and let they see me working in China so I have to go in with confidence because if you don't. Build yourself up with confidence and you go in insecure like that person isn't going to want to. Hire you like life. I feel like it's 90% confidence even if you don't even have it. Like fake it till you make it type of thing you know.
You know another question that I have for you. Zoe is. You're planning on traveling overseas. You have two to three month contract that is being tied up in a really big city that you haven't been to before. I just curious to understand what risks do you see in traveling overseas to model? Well, I have like a lot of trust in my agency that I'm going there with. I definitely am like more nervous because I feel like I'm a little naive like I never lock my door like when I leave my house. You have to have your guard up, maybe in a different sort of way. Yeah, I think Clyde burgard up and just like more like mindful that you don't know like every single person in this town so you don't really have like a trust with that person. I feel like I need to be more like protective of myself. But honestly, like not trying to like get myself too scared. I don't think I have to be scared of like every situation. So I definitely think I'll have my guard up. It's just I need to remember like once I adapt to living there I can't like. Compare it to a small town because it's not the same. Free out. You seem very dialed in on that. Umm?
I think that there are so many people who are in kind of public roles like the one you're talking about, particularly creative roles where, yeah, you have to. How you present is the thing that you bring in the moment, and you kind of protect the squishy part of you like I'm going to protect that. But you can be both right. You can have both. You can feel nervous or have a squishy bit inside and then still project this amazing confidence. Some of the most confident people when you see them. They're not the people that. Like they knew, like have like this perfect image of like I feel like the most perfect people are like. OK with themselves and how they are and. They just like to move on with life, so yeah.
I'm really curious about how a photo shoot. Works like maybe you can just describe the process. What do you do to prepare what happens during a photo shoot? Well, to prepare for a photoshoot, it probably takes about like an hour and a half and then you get your makeup done, which can take from like 15 minutes. If you're in a rush to like minutes. And then the stylist has to pick out an outfit for you which can take like 30 minutes like up to 30 minutes. And then they'll photoshoot process is actually like way quicker than like 5 minutes to maybe like 25 minutes. And when you are ready to have the photos done, I'm assuming that. The photographer like, whether it's in a studio or outside. They give you some instructions like how do they typically like what? What's your interaction with them? Because they're kind of the creative in partnership with you, really, they usually pick like the location. But if you like work with the photographer more and more like there's one photographer I've worked with like a lot and I remember like my first photo shoot she gave me like the entire like. Time gave me direction and what to do. And then you kind of adapt to her style. Like over time. So then you kind of already know when you go into the photoshoot. You know you sort of see it on television and you think, OK, this is. You know how a photographer will speak to somebody to try and get different angles, and I've had my picture taken obviously for corporate headshots and stuff, and and that. The question that I asked the photographer was taking my pictures last time was, you know, I'm assuming all the best shots happen early in the photo shoot. And
he goes no, the best shots you know, kind of. The winners are at the end. Is that your experience? I feel like yeah, the first like couple minutes is like you just getting it comfortable in front of the camera and then once they start giving you pointers like chin down or like move your head to the side a bit more like that's one of the best photos come out. When you're relaxed, yeah. Nice. I'm interested in the fact that as an industry, modeling has really changed its center of gravity, so. So a model that you and I both know who's worked in the business for. 35 years when she was starting out and she was your age. The models from Canada went to Europe. And obviously the industry is really changed and so models from Canada are going to Asia. I guess that's where most of the work is. What do you understand to be going on in the industry, given that you're on the West Coast, here in Canada and you're heading across the ocean? Well, I definitely think from. Like the modeling industry has like been way more diverse in the last like 10 years than it has been like before. So I think with that. Europe is still like a really hot spot for modeling, but now like places like Mexico are even growing like a lot because like I'll have a agency that I went to and I went to a convention talking about how much the market has like exploded there and like people still have like doubts like going there, but there's like a lot of opportunities so I think with Asia that's like kind of the same thing. It's always like been like a little bit of a hot spot, but now it's like growing way more and go because like. Now with COVID 2, a lot of like buyers that I think in the country
would go to different places. Now we're like kind of relying on their like designers and their own countries and now every like Big city in the world or like big country is kind of like popping off. My question to Zoe is. If you could fix. Something on the planet? Doesn't have to be like the whole planet, just one thing. What would it be? Like especially like now in like Canada or like all over the world there's like this big divide and hate towards like one another like I know people are like losing friendships over like things that are going on in the world and I just wish like like my magical power would be like. There was more like acceptance and like. I guess with social media now it's really easy to put out opinions, other people to see it, and then it built. It gets bigger and bigger and bigger. I just wish that I know everyone was understanding of everyone. Well, you put that intention out into the world. Let's manifest it together, yeah.
OK, final question for you. So Zoe I would like to know. What is the tiniest thing that you know that makes the biggest difference in your life? I think like small acts of kindness from other people like and seeing like other people do, that for me makes me want to do that for like other people. When someone compliments you about your kindness or like you're giving or something like that like that makes you also feel good about yourself, you don't even realize you're doing it.
You can follow Zoe on Instagram. Zoey Elizabeth Baxter, her agency is deja vu modeling.