Check out Clerk: https://clerk.dev

Clerks Twitter: @ClerkDev

Colin's Twitter: @tweetsbycolin

---- Transcript ----

00:00.00 developershangout Welcome to developers hangouts podcast where today I have colin colin why don't you introduce yourself, tell people who you are and we'll start hanging out.

00:09.81 Colin Sidoti Sure. Yeah, thanks for having me um my name's Colin I'm the co-founder of clerk and clerk is basically a really easy way to add sign up sign in and user profile pages to your. New application.

00:28.28 developershangout So let's start with I'm quite familiar with clark I've been using clark on and off for for quite a while as you know and and we've collaborated on a few things and when how did you get? How did you guys decide to do clark. Because clerk is very different than any other authentication or authorization system out there. It's it's very simple. It executes well and it's easy. Easy easy to use essentially which is pretty much the opposite of any oruth product out there.

00:57.35 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for the the kind words I think um, you know that was that was on purpose but um to to give you the high level so clark was started by my brother and I Braden. And um, you know we're both the kinds of people that kind of always had a side project. We're working on. Um and I think we just always hated the step of like oh now I need to add sign up and sign into this and like the user profile screen. Normally you wouldn't even do change Password you wouldn't do. And you kind of just cut corners and be like I I just need people to be able to get into my app somehow my app is really the exciting thing. Um, and you're you know you're always kind of embarrassed about it and I think you know just looking at tools like you know stripe checkout I was like why. Why isn't there something like that for a sign up sign in and manage my profile. Um, and so we really started with that premise um had no idea how we were going to do it I learned. A ton of things along the way about like what's actually easy for developers and um, you know what feels like it's too invasive for developers and I think that was really the line we struggled with the most early on um but. You know we had used all of like all zero ourselves. We'd use devise ourselves all the open source libraries and um I think the biggest thing that we really decided to take on ourselves that no 1 else has is session. Management. So. Lot of cases. Um, you know after someone signs in you get this token back from the authentication tool and they're just like okay yeah, like persist this token somehow and then you'll be able to authenticate future requests. And yeah, it's kind of on you to know like oh I should set that in a cookie or should I set it in local storage and what kind of cookie should it be am I introducing any cross-site scripting vulnerabilities and so on um and we decided you know what? like let's just set the cookie for them. Um, we know it should be a secure http only Cookie. We know the gold standard here. Let's just build the gold standard and I think what was really surprising was we did that for signup and sign-in and then we did the user profile page I think most people don't realize that like we're the only ones that really come with.

03:46.30 Colin Sidoti Ah, user profile screen out of the box and a lot of that is actually powered by session management like it would be much harder to do that if we didn't know who the signed in user was um and so it was really cool to see you know, just that simple decision of like I want to take. 3 more steps away from the developer. They shouldn't need to decide how to persist this ended up like unlocking whole product areas for us. Um, yeah I think that's that's kind of the the big highlights I mean we're also very front end focused. We. We very much believe that Frontend developers should be able to work uninhibited ah and they shouldn't need backend developers to integrate a developer tool and so for us, it's like you put a sign-in component on the page and you get a sign-in flow. But user profile component on the page. You get a user profile page. Um, and yeah, driving that developer experience was I think 1 of the great challenges and and also kind of the most fun challenges. We've had.

04:53.52 developershangout Yeah I mean I remember when you were like clerk zero dot whatever before before where we are today with like the v 2 stuff coming along and all that other stuff like I remember I can't even remember how I ended up even finding clark.

05:01.95 Colin Sidoti Um.

05:13.70 developershangout I think it was randomly you know I spent so much time making videos that I'm just like I'll check I'll check these guys out ah'll see how good their product is if it's good I'll make a video which is usually how I do pretty much anything and I remember using it and being like yeah this developer experience is what I've been looking for for the last decade like.

05:30.65 Colin Sidoti Yeah.

05:32.84 developershangout Finally somebody's figured out that nobody wants to do this and nobody wants to do seish management and nobody wants to make a user profile and nobody wants to do this and like yeah, it's very much just like here's a signing component here's a signup component use a profile boom done. Okay, cool I've done authentication now I can go back to actually doing the things I care about and producing a good product and like I just went through that when I built roll your tweet I didn't use clerk for it because you guys didn't have Twitter sign up flow yet and you still don't but when you do I'll just move over it. It won't won't be a big deal.

06:02.42 Colin Sidoti Yeah, have to line up.

06:09.16 developershangout Um, and I had to end up I ended up having to build the sign in flow the sign out flow and the user profile flow and I was like this is such pain like I'd been so spoiled using clerk on like every side project and all project that.

06:19.65 Colin Sidoti Yeah.

06:27.97 developershangout When it came to not using it I was like oh yeah I remember this now I remember the pain and suffering that I had dealt with for the last 10 years

06:29.69 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah. Um, yeah, First of all, really sorry that Twitter's not done yet. We will get to it see you and um, but yeah I think just delivering that moment of like oh wow it like it's it's done because is this.

06:39.33 developershangout Hey.

06:49.70 developershangout Um, right.

06:51.99 Colin Sidoti This is how I always hoped everything else would work and like for some reason it never like yeah that's exactly um, you know we shared the same frustrations trying to use other tools in the past and um I will say we did not think it would be as hard as it proved to be. Like we understand how the other tools ended up making the decisions they made um and like really a huge thanks goes out to our investors in just like letting us patiently find the answer um because i. Could not have imagined I know they could not have imagined that it would take quite so long to land on that on that dx um, but yeah, it was. It was many many months of. Pushing out new version testing developers and them hating it. Ah until we we ultimately found something that that resonated.

07:54.76 developershangout Yeah, and so talking about clark before we move on to more less work things. What what's coming up the pipe. What's next in the pipeline you guys just I know you're on v 2 v 2 stuff is coming or is cup is in Beta right now but like what what's the future. What's what's coming out that.

07:58.97 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

08:07.24 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

08:14.10 Colin Sidoti Yeah I mean so a lot of the rest of this year is really focused on um, improving the developer experience for user management even more and so we're missing some key features Ssr is 1 so ssr with react we don't have.

08:14.27 developershangout People should be looking out for.

08:30.33 developershangout Nothing.

08:33.53 Colin Sidoti Solved very well yet. Um, and then we also want to work with the new server components and that the tech there is is tied hand in hand pretty closely. Um.

08:39.21 developershangout So.

08:48.83 Colin Sidoti And kind of just like additional work on our our documentation I think there are still places where we see people coming through the onboarding funnel and and getting snagged that we want to fix customization is I say the last big thing this year that we want to improve a lot of people do drop the kind. Component on their page and they want to do more design stuff to it than we currently make easy. Um, that's this year and there's not really much left right? Just 2 months. Um, 2022 is all about this shift.

09:17.41 developershangout Yeah, just 2 months no pressure.

09:27.25 Colin Sidoti Into I call it customer management and so right now we do user management but some applications have organizations as their customers and that future set kind of shares a lot of the same qualities as user management where. Developers get to the problem and they're just like why Why isn't this a tool yet and so all of like create an organization invite people to my organization and set different roles and permissions for people. Um. And then ultimately like ah getting into the authorization side of things even more with letting the organization or the user um purchase like subscription plans and exposing to the developer really easily which subscription plan is this user on so you can. More easily gate. Um, you know which features someone has access to where yeah equally excited for the the dx of our of our gate component I Think that's what it's going to be.. It's just going to be gate.

10:24.62 developershangout Man I'm I'm excited for that feature bring me that feature.

10:37.66 developershangout Awesome.

10:40.91 Colin Sidoti And then there's a permission prop and if the user has that permission it renders if not it doesn't um.

10:45.15 developershangout Awesome! Yeah I look forward to that feature because the amount of permissioning I wrote for the strike like I have subscription on Royal tweet that allows you to do certain things if you pay and there's a free tier and the amount of permissioning I wrote that has like. Dependent components depends on what you can see was an absolute pain. It was like the worst part of the whole experience I think.

11:05.59 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, yeah, and I think authorization is such a hot space right now in venture too and it surprises me how few are really tackling it from like the frontend developer perspective.

11:13.67 developershangout Moving.

11:22.20 developershangout Yeah.

11:25.54 Colin Sidoti Um, we do everything in reverse right? Like we we start with what should the react component be named and and build up from there. Um, and yeah I think like if if you've been tracking it all like the zanzibar paper out of Google. It's just like so.

11:30.54 developershangout Right.

11:44.20 Colin Sidoti Divorced I feel like from the things that most developers are are really focused on and so trying to bring some sanity to to that side of the problem as well.

11:52.28 developershangout Awesome! Yeah I look forward to I look forward to 202043 was a good year for you guys? Yeah, you guys had a good good year and I've always been really impressed with with you and Brandon like you've always been super friendly to me and vice versa like we've always chatted and.

11:57.94 Colin Sidoti I Know yeah.

12:11.92 developershangout And and you know bounced ideas off each other etc. Um, so talking outside of clerk when you have you know the spare few hours that you do I'm sure at this point. Um, but what kind of things Do do you like to do in your in your spare time.

12:29.35 Colin Sidoti Yeah, so I'm actually a rowing coach. Um for mit which is maybe surprising I coach the novices. Um, that's kind of my.

12:29.37 developershangout Ah, Jevany hobbies.

12:35.44 developershangout Wow.

12:44.70 Colin Sidoti My break from work in the middle of the day. It adds some structure to my day from 5 to 7 I'm I'm out on the river teaching a few kids how to row boats and um, you know that's that's I think very rewarding great for like mental health. Um. But then not on my own I I like running as well. Um.

13:05.84 developershangout So how how do you get? so before we move on to running because I'm also quite a fan of the run. Um, ah how do you become a rowing coach not just specifically a rowan coach but Roan coach for the novices at mit like how did that happen that's kind of interesting.

13:11.20 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

13:17.89 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, no, it's very silly. Um I as is so I went to mit so that probably helps a little bit. Um and as a senior I had.

13:28.27 developershangout Present.

13:37.11 Colin Sidoti Finished up most of my coursework and I was like I want to try something new. Um, and the rowing team accepted walk ons and so I walked on senior year. Um, and I just loved it like I had a ton of fun. Um, it's it's. I think it's surprising how approachable the sport is like once you can find your way into a boat. Um, like you really can learn it and and take it up pretty easily. But anyway I like to so much that and. Ah, the year after I was still in Boston and um, they let me come on as a novice coach and it's funny like I still can't really teach for I coach the top boats because I was I was on I only have a road for 1 year like there's a lot that I still don't know about the sport.

14:27.48 developershangout Um.

14:34.60 Colin Sidoti Um, but I really like the um you know every year a new set of um students come in and every year I get a little bit better at at coaching them into getting the boat moving. Um. And I like that cyclic pattern I think you don't have that in startups at all right. It's very much like you know up and to the right every year is a different year um and it's nice to have that other side of things. It's just like oh I can get better at this same task 1 by 1 um.

14:56.24 developershangout Um, right? yep.

15:11.89 Colin Sidoti Yeah, that's the short story I guess.

15:12.13 developershangout Awesome! Yeah, you're very that that comment's very true that when when you work in startups and I've worked in a few is that yeah, it's always up and to the right right? that that's it. There's no like going back to the beginning. Um, and yeah I imagine that's quite nice to just.

15:24.89 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

15:31.51 developershangout Have that consistent every year on year I get to do the same thing that I did last year but we're just new people and those people want to learn how to move a boat down a river I assume um, so yeah, so cool. So running is that something you do just.

15:36.58 Colin Sidoti Yeah. Yeah.

15:51.22 developershangout Like randomly throughout the week do you train in particular plans like what? how do you? How do you decide? What? what your runs are going to look like.

15:57.55 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, I'm pretty random. Um everything is more cardio based I think that's also kind of stemming out of my rowing experience. Um I like a. You know a normal run for me is like a 3 mile run around the river in Boston. So if you're at all familiar I guess 3 miles is like the short 1 the normal 1 might be the the 5 mile run. So it's the be you bridge to the longfellow bridge and it's great.

16:17.80 developershangout M.

16:30.90 Colin Sidoti We have lots of bridges and so I can kind of just add a bridge and I a little more distance. Um I Yeah, that's what I do normally I've dabbled a little like I've done a try before I'm really bad at biking.

16:31.74 developershangout Right.

16:49.68 Colin Sidoti Turns out I'm better at swimming than biking which like the only thing I did going into that try was running Um, way better at swimming than biking I'm afraid of going fast apparently on a bike.

17:00.29 developershangout Okay, yeah I could see that like once you get to a certain speed on the bike. It's scary. You've got no print no protection. No, you just got a helmet on and that's it really and if you come off that way. It's gonna hurt a lot. Um.

17:05.64 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I think everyone else is like they get to the apex of the Hill and they're just like oh let's open it up and sprint down and I just want to like sit up. And like take it in a little bit. Ah you know ride the brakes a little bit on the way down. That's that's not the mentality of the of the race by here.

17:25.96 developershangout Yep! nope.

17:33.50 developershangout Apparently not so it sounds like I wouldn't be good at race by the race biking either. Um I have 1 of those like sort of like a peloton but just a different brand. It's cheaper does the same job and yeah, yeah, even on those things like.

17:38.48 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, but.

17:45.70 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

17:51.37 developershangout I see people doing like you know 5 mile hour faster than I am and I'm like I would be scared to tip the bike over because it's stationary and there's no, there's no real like so if I'm going hard I'm going to tip this thing over.

17:57.89 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

18:05.73 developershangout So yeah I don't go much more than like eighteen mile an hour and that's too fast for me. Um, it's very sporadic. Um I use it as like a mental clarity thing. So I power I power lift which is my real passion. Um.

18:08.25 Colin Sidoti Um, what's your running regimen.

18:20.70 Colin Sidoti Um.

18:23.39 developershangout And then I do cardio 3 times a week and it will either be bike or running. Um, so where I live is exactly if I run the exact loop. It's 1 1 mile so I'll do anywhere between 2 five loops and it's like hilly and it's kind of different terrain.

18:33.82 Colin Sidoti New.

18:40.45 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, yeah.

18:42.26 developershangout So it's like a nice workout and I use that for mental clarity more than anything so apart from that I don't do any racing or anything like that I just use it to to clear my head and think about what I want to do next.

18:51.94 Colin Sidoti Yeah I definitely same mindset. It's not so much about the pace. It's just about getting outside and doing it and clearing my head a bit.

19:02.30 developershangout Yeah, because ah you know you know as you know I answered Dms at random times of the day and and messages. So yeah, it's sometimes it's very hard to to have mental clarity when when you basically wake up on and go to bed on. Um.

19:08.87 Colin Sidoti Yes.

19:18.10 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

19:21.20 developershangout So I try and use that time I'll switch my phone to you know do not disturb I put my headphones on and I just let it go Um, which is worked really well for me and I've done it done it for numerous years and I still going So guess it still works. So.

19:35.50 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

19:40.58 developershangout Outside of exercising which is a common theme. Um is there anything that you do to to sort of unwind because being in a startup is it's basically go from the minute you wake up to the minute you go to bed for the most people and especially being a founder and and.

19:41.33 Colin Sidoti Um, and.

20:00.27 developershangout And in that space. Um, how do how do you switch off like at nighttime like how do you turn away from from stuff.

20:01.29 Colin Sidoti Yeah.

20:07.37 Colin Sidoti Yeah I mean so this is gonna be a bad answer because of course I've I turned it into work a little bit. Um, but so we just started this like dinners with builders thing at clerk it I think.

20:19.20 developershangout Um I saw the I saw the Twitter picture.

20:24.21 Colin Sidoti Yeah, and that's really um I think me taking what I do and and ah you know, just inviting more people to it. But yeah I have like this network of like founder friends that. Just go out and grab a drink with and chat whatever um I think that helps a lot just just talking with other people and shared experiences and um, yeah, it's it's so funny with startups because. As much as it is up and to the right. It's also like a very day by day or at least week by week thing or some weeks they're just like what how did everything go wrong this week and other weeks are like wow that went way better than I could have imagined um and kind of experiencing that roller coast here with.

21:03.80 developershangout Okay, so.

21:18.38 Colin Sidoti Some other people is really nice. Um, besides that I'd say ah Netflix and I would say I'm a proud subscriber to like Netflix and hbo and and all of them. Um, but really I have other people's logins. I can't get correct that. Ah.

21:40.80 developershangout Netflix If you're listening. You didn't hear any of that because we all know you get upset when you don't get another fifteen dollars out people. But yes.

21:46.63 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, um, yeah, there's a lot of good a lot of good media out there I Really enjoy watching um like comedians in cars getting coffee. Um, what was the.

22:00.56 developershangout Listen.

22:05.82 Colin Sidoti Right? So to me, there's this trend between comedians and cars getting coffee like free solo the Alex Honold Climbing Yosem movie. Um a show like top Chef. Um, there's a bunch of shows out there. That's really just about like. People at the top of their craft like thinking about their craft rather than just like the craft itself. Um, and I really enjoy like the insight into.

22:30.97 developershangout Yep.

22:40.30 Colin Sidoti You know what they're doing in their day-to-day rather than just like you know Jerry Seinfeld doing standup. We've all seen but like him talking to other comedians and just seeing how you know he can't help it. He's just always on right? He's always.

22:55.86 developershangout Um, yep.

22:59.30 Colin Sidoti In his conversations in that Show. He's always trying to think of the joke um to make and it's just so fun to Watch. Um and I think ah yeah I think of Alex Homel like the same way in that movie. Um, where. Like it really doesn't feel dissimilar to founders to me watching Alex Honold doing Freesol. It's just like this irrational pursuit of something. Um, that brings you joy for whatever reason and. Um, yeah I I Love that kind of media.

23:38.14 developershangout Yeah, we're we're in the same boat. That's almost all of my favorite style of media is that media that looks at people in craft but from a different angle. So yeah, like top Chef or um, there's this. Ah.

23:49.66 Colin Sidoti Yeah.

23:57.35 developershangout Ugly delicious. Have you seen that show? Yes, yes, yeah, or chef where Jon favreau comes in and talks about the show while also doing things like talking to other chefs like that kind of stuff to me is is so interesting I could just watch it all day in some nature.

23:57.47 Colin Sidoti Um, yes, David chang yeah, it's fantastic.

24:05.64 Colin Sidoti Um, have.

24:16.61 developershangout Even like old Anthony Bourdain like his travel show where he just goes to random countries and talks to you know random street food vendors or chefs or whoever and it's just like this in in and you're very right. It's very similar to founders Builders sas.

24:18.60 Colin Sidoti Now.

24:36.70 developershangout Like providers or startups. It's very similar in that nature where it's people at the top of their game talking about similar things but from a different angle And yeah I consume that media quite quite frequently. Um, my.

24:44.47 Colin Sidoti Yeah. Very excited for me. There's a beatles documentary coming out which seems like it's going to be surreal because it's just it's just like they have this footage from 70 or 50 years ago whatever it is and.

24:53.92 developershangout Yes.

25:07.19 Colin Sidoti Yeah I I feel like it's going to bring it's going to like turn the Seventy s into the Instagram era a little bit but we just see like firsts. All was it any different I kind of suspect it like wasn't actually all that different. We just didn't have cameras back then but I don't know I'm really excited to see what it's like.

25:12.26 developershangout Yep yep.

25:19.10 developershangout Yeah, yeah, as a kid that grew up on ah beatles tv like on their movies because they did all those movies and I had a really good friend who was obsessed with like all I grew up I was born in the eighty s like late eighty s.

25:26.85 Colin Sidoti Um.

25:36.68 Colin Sidoti Um.

25:38.53 developershangout Grew up in the ninety s and my friend was obsessed with the like old rock at the time so like the stones beatles all those kinds of things. So I've seen almost every beatles movie that they ever did because he was obsessed and I go to his house and he'd be like oh you haven't seen this 1 yet and he put the vhs in.

25:48.79 Colin Sidoti Um.

25:58.46 developershangout And I'd sit there and watch it and it was just you know they are talent. That's just an easy way to describe them is it doesn't matter what error will be. It could be a hundred years from today and they'd still be talent and I I really love that that so talking about music.

26:02.85 Colin Sidoti Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:11.15 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah. Um, yeah.

26:18.27 developershangout What what? what is your take on music. What what should do you have particularly genres or are you a free flowing kind of guy like what what is your music take.

26:28.16 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah I have maybe a less exciting take than most um now I went to a high school where there was a very big like band. Um, ah, not like. Band like high school band but like a lot of my friends were in like 4 part bands and we had a band night or like band competitions and um so I grew up with just a lot of my friends being involved in that I actually wasn't involved in it. But what's odd is that a lot of my.

26:52.88 developershangout Yep.

27:06.50 Colin Sidoti Music consumption in adulthood is like going to smaller shows like not really big artists as much. Um, just like I think I just enjoy that setting a little more um on the bigger side. So I do like the beatles I also like I love blink when eighty 2 like if if that's my 2 spotify starting points. It's like Beatles in Fliqui eighty two which is very ah Ninety s kid of me I guess.

27:35.61 developershangout Yeah, yeah, right? I guess yeah, pretty much because that's fairly similar to both mine and my wife's like listening like I'll listen to anything but I have very specific like my my dad was into heavy metal because he grew up in like the Seventy s and the 80 s so. Like I grew up with iron maiden and and black sabbath being played at full volume in my house on big speakers. That's what I remember as a kid. Um and then like that that sort of grew into me liking. Um.

27:56.91 Colin Sidoti Um. Um, yeah, that's awesome.

28:10.72 developershangout You know eric clapton and and and and cream and then moving on to blink 1 8 2 and and papa roach and you know all those all those kind of Ninety s bands and then you know Nirvana being being still up there and all that kind of stuff.

28:17.50 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

28:26.71 developershangout And now like yeah, that's basically my my playlists are some sort of rock music or indie music played. Um when I listen to them because I spend most my time consuming podcasts. So I don't listen to that much music anymore. So I consume more podcasts than music these days.

28:36.85 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah, yeah.

28:45.22 Colin Sidoti Fair enough.

28:46.57 developershangout Ah I think I'm a that weird person I because I listen to podcast literally from the minute I start work till I stop unless I'm doing this or or streaming or or you know making videos.

28:56.99 Colin Sidoti Yeah I don't think that's that weird I feel more like the weird 1 in that I ah, first of all I have just a ton of friends that are constantly listening to podcasts. So I I don't think that's um, super odd anymore I think it's yeah, it's just.

29:07.17 developershangout M.

29:16.68 Colin Sidoti More enriching content. So does yeah.

29:19.60 developershangout Right? Yeah, it's but I find it's like listening to short audio books about very specific topics each week. Oh I like to listen to like stuff that's not tech. Um, so that I can enrich the other side of my life.

29:28.30 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

29:36.50 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

29:38.66 developershangout Um, first versus like you know, listening to more tech and consuming more tech I I do that enough I think we all do that enough I don't think I need any more in my life. That's for sure. Um, so this is kind of the end of the show stuff. So.

29:44.46 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

29:55.55 developershangout Tell me about something that you've done recently. Maybe you've gone to a restaurant that you really like in Boston or maybe you've cooked something at home. Um, yeah, anything that you've done recently slash eaton that that's worthy.

30:08.93 Colin Sidoti Um, anything I've done or eaten recently. Um, oh man I I'm gonna be so sad because I'm not gonna be able to come up with anything. Good and then after this,, we're gonna come up with something great. Ah,, let's see done Recently. You know I during the pandemic.

30:44.67 developershangout Yep.

30:44.86 Colin Sidoti Um, my friends in Boston and I have been playing volleyball pretty regularly. Um I think there was like 1 person with experience and she brought a volleyball net and.

30:51.80 developershangout Okay.

31:04.46 Colin Sidoti We just go to the park. Um, there was a while like probably a 3 four month stretch where it was like every weekend. Ah, it's getting cold now. So it's it's slowing down but it was so like I had a rewarding fun like it was just like.

31:09.40 developershangout Um, yep.

31:23.75 Colin Sidoti We're trying something new. Um, you know there was like a day drinking component to it which was fun. Um, just like every Saturday 1 o'clock show up to the field and just like play some volleyball. Um, and you get better. We. We don't play with like the net rule. You canness was burnnet. Um I think a lot of sports have like rules are like more fun to play without to some extent ah except for offsides and soccer like I hate people that play without the offsizes rule like.

31:42.80 developershangout E.

31:50.91 developershangout Yeah I agree with that I'd agree with that.

31:58.23 developershangout Yeah, yeah, that defeats the whole purpose of of that. Um.

32:00.26 Colin Sidoti Like ah yeah, ah, but the net rule of viball is it's quite fun to play without Um, and yeah, that's something I've done that was unexpected. Um and just. It's just been a lot of fun really just added some joy to the pandemic I Honestly still haven't like gotten back into eating indoors I Actually love that more places have takeout now and that it.

32:28.88 developershangout Me the. Me too.

32:38.11 Colin Sidoti We've really normalized takeout more which is just fantastic. Um, because I I don't want to wait in line ever and I also don't like yeah you go to restaurant I was like oh it's an hour and a half wait for brunch like I'll just I'll just do takeout that just seems.

32:43.77 developershangout Yeah I mean.

32:50.58 developershangout Right.

32:53.53 Colin Sidoti Like the clear winning option here. Um yeah I don't know that's that's what I came up with hopefully that's interesting.

32:59.91 developershangout Oh it's there I mean it's definitely interesting I think you know you're probably the second or third person I've had on that said that like during the pandemic friends and I have done x to every week since then. You know and I know that Boston gets really cold because obviously I lived in Connecticut for a while. So I I understand there now it's like November it start to cool down but that's super cool that like you could find something to do during the pandemic which you could still do you know like you could still do safely outside.

33:19.52 Colin Sidoti Um.

33:27.67 Colin Sidoti Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:36.69 developershangout You could still see your friends. You could still disconnect from you know, being on because once the pandemic hit everybody was working all the time because they had nothing better to do and that it's just good to find something that you can tear away from just for a few hours

33:46.27 Colin Sidoti Um, yeah.

33:51.62 Colin Sidoti Um, and that was the biggest thing too because yeah, right when it hit I was just yeah, it was just work every day it was like well what else can I do and the first time I went out for volleyball I was like well this just this is this.

33:59.84 developershangout M.

34:10.17 Colin Sidoti Just changed my life like this is so much better like I needed this a lot what I was doing was not sustainable. Um, so makes sense hope.

34:10.27 developershangout Right? yeah.

34:17.71 developershangout Awesome! So we've so we're basically at the end of the show now. Um I First of all I appreciate you coming on last minute. It was very last minute. You just showed up and here we are um this is your time ah feel free to plug whatever you want. Ah, tell people what they should be doing checking out is their Twitter accounts. They should be following youtube channels all that kind of stuff.

34:44.48 Colin Sidoti Yeah, um, so I guess on the clerk side so work clerk dev on Twitter and I am tweets by colin I think if you want like ah you know company updates the the clerk dev.

35:00.73 developershangout Listen.

35:03.40 Colin Sidoti But there is where to go. You should also just try clerk. Um, we're updating it all the time to make it even better and um, we have Discord I would love to have you there and and help get you going? Um, on. Tweets by colin side I think that's where like that's where I post things that I am like not ready to make the company. Ah the the primary speaker of yet. Um, yeah I think there's maybe more.

35:33.44 developershangout Ah, yep.

35:41.31 Colin Sidoti Like more thoughts about like where I think tech is is going and so there's a lot of like musings about you know like I believe the frontend developer is ah well basically the backend developer is like slowly disappearing and that tools should start targeting the frontend developer. Um, because yeah, like making that role more ah more productive. Um is just going to make it easier and easier to build applications. Um. Yeah, so like things like that and kind of why I believe that come out a lot on on my personal Twitter um, and yeah in terms of other things to plug start a company um or come work for clerk I I think.

36:34.60 developershangout Um, gate.

36:37.00 Colin Sidoti Working at startups is is just incredibly rewarding my advice I think there's a lot of advice out there and like which 1 to join and there are certainly things you can do to like optimize financial output or financial gain. Um, but I think the easiest thing to do is just pick 1 that that you believe in and I enjoy that that's going to be for me. It's always been the most rewarding um and. Yeah I Very much very much want more builders out there. Um, so strong Advocate. Do it use cles to do it. But ah yeah, just get out there.

37:21.75 developershangout Yeah I.

37:27.88 developershangout Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, ah you guys are hiring a Dev Rail right? is that the only where we that's the only role you have now. Ah currently or do you have anything else.

37:32.67 Colin Sidoti Yes I say devro frontend engineers are constantly in demand. Um, and then realistically when twenty twenty 2 hits you're going to see a bigger.

37:44.51 developershangout Nothing.

37:52.83 Colin Sidoti Hiring push as we expand into the organization side of things. Um, but yeah front end and devre are very hard to hire and if if you're in that role. Um, or think you can do it even.

37:55.80 developershangout Cool.

38:12.19 Colin Sidoti Happy to happy to work with you and try to make something work.

38:15.98 developershangout Cool. Awesome! Oh well I appreciate you coming on and hanging out with me. Um I will make sure to drop some show notes with clerk's main page their Twitter account calling Twitter account. Um. And some other stuff that I think are is important such as videos that will show off what clark can do um, but yeah I really appreciate you coming on and we'll see you guys next week for another episode.

38:43.95 Colin Sidoti Um, awesome. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.

38:47.42 developershangout No problem.