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Dr. Sunberg highlighted the overarching biblical (prescriptive and descriptive) texts supporting women’s shared leadership such as: Genesis 1:26–30, and Galatians 3:28, and Romans 16:1–16. These texts are the “rings that rule overall rings” to use a JRR Tolkien image. Even more, throughout Scripture we see, the power of the Holy Spirit empowering, guiding, encouraging women leaders. Paul’s Gospel vision clearly includes women as part of the Great Commission, to share Jesus with the entire world. Phoebe’s leadership cited in Romans 16:1–2 implemented Paul’s vision. Paul’s vision of church planting takes shape and flourishes beside his female workers, like Junia, Phoebe, and Priscilla. While many Christians tend to gloss over these details, they are crucial in planting, serving, and leading churches today.

Carla addressed “the sociology of Scripture” which includes both biblical manhood and biblical womanhood as partners in the Gospel, not adversaries. Supremely, Proverbs 31 celebrates God’s ideal or vision for woman—one of gift-based ministry and service not limited by gender. Referencing Dr. Ben Witherington, biblical patriarchy, is an exegete without clothes.

Citing an extensive history noting the steady growth of women leaders/pastors in the Wesleyan Holiness church that began initially with only 2% women, to now 20% of clergy are women in the Church of the Nazarenewhich Carla is a member. Carla and discussed meeting this year, in person for the first time, during the recent Wesleyan Holiness Women Clergy Conference held in Minneapolis. This event aimed at supporting women clergy and CBE was invited to join in to support their inter-racial, international women’s leadership which parallels that of CBE’s ministry.

We ended by discussing the needs women clergy have for flexibility given all they manage in their lives. women need support for the many responsibilities of being a Christian mother, wife, pastor, scholar, etc. Often these women are a minority serving beside men who have centuries of traditions supporting male-leaders. We ended in prayer. This was indeed an information, wisdom, holiness packed podcast!!

Books Carla has contributed to:

Viewing the whole sweep of scripture, Carla edited the book: Faithful to the Call, Women in Ministry.She wrote,The Christian Life: A Nazarene Perspective and Why Holiness?: The Transformational Message That Unites Us and Teach us to Pray: What We can Learn from Scripture.

Carla coauthored, Reclaiming Eve: The Identity and Calling of Women in the Kingdom of God; Color: God’s Intention for Diversity; The Cappadocian Mothers: Deification Exemplified in the Writings of Basil, Gregory and Gregory; Uncommon Virtues: Seven Saints Who shaped our Faith; Reflecting the Image: Our Call to Mirror Christ to the World, andPulling Back the Curtain on the Former Soviet Union.

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On this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Dr. Preston Sprinkle to discuss his new book, "From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership." A deeply committed Christian, husband, and father, Preston Sprinkle said his career has focused on serving the church as a scholar. As such, he approaches questions concerning faith and life through a deep dive exegetical analysis of the related biblical passages and related historical contexts. For many years, as a complementarian, Preston read the key passages (1 Timothy 2:11–15, 1 Corinthians 14:34–36, and Ephesians 5:21–33) at face value—through a plain reading of the text which, seemingly, supports male leadership in church and the home. Yet, over time, he noticed how the Greek syntax in these passages was complex. Attending more carefully, he began to focus on single words in the text like “silent.” This practice was quite fruitful in helping him realize how women were not silent in Scripture contra 1 Corinthians 14:34–36. This seeming inconsistency evoked questions around what NT women were talking about. Clearly, they had a voice. In fact, leading Bible women were far from silent. God called and gifted women to speak as prophets, judges, warriors, and diplomats. Women were Christ’s disciples, and women served beside Paul as deacons, apostles, church planters, and his coworkers. Romans 16 abounds with the voices of women, slaves, and non-Jews—aligning with the welcome of women as Gospel agents (Gal. 3:28). Stunningly, women’s voices were heard in Corinth, as they prayed and prophesied in the church (1 Cor. 11:5), raising questions about the meaning of 1 Corinthians 14:34–36. Other passages in 1 Corinthians, such as 1 Corinthians 7:4-5, 1 Corinthians 11:7, and 1 Corinthians 11, challenged Preston as a complementarian because:

• Wives and husbands have authority over each other’s bodies: 1 Cor. 7:4–5
• Women prayed and prophesied: 1 Cor. 11:5.
• Women “… have authority over her own head, because of the angels:” 1 Cor. 11:10.
• Woman and man are interdependent: 1 Cor. 11:11–12.

Preston cited as a helpful resource, Gregory Dawe’s works on head metaphors in Ephesians, The Body in Question: Metaphor and Meaning in the Interpretation of Ephesians 5:21–33 (Biblical Interpretation Series, 30)

Turning to 1 Timothy 2:11–12, Preston points to the extreme use of authority (authentein) Paul evokes in this passage that mirrors the unilateral, domineering authority of slave owners over their slaves as it demeaned slaves ontologically as lesser humans for a lesser purpose. It was a devaluation Jesus challenged in Matthew 20:25–28: “Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Summing it up, Preston suggests that three complex, poorly translated texts cannot overturn the “wide ocean of women leaders in Scripture.” Which is why he cautions against silencing women based on a plain reading of the Bible. Add to this the many women scholars he admired even before becoming an egalitarian. Women like Drs. Linda Belleville Sandra Ritcher, Lynn Cohick, Cynthia Westfall, and others are deeply regarded and highly respected throughout the Christian world. We add Preston to the list of egalitarian scholars and leaders, thanking him for his very insightful work throughout this podcast and in his newest book,From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership,available in CBE’s bookstore. Enjoy!

00:56 Welcome and Guest Intro

02:59 Preston’s Journey Shift

04:56 Deep Dive Research Process

06:31 Key Textual Turning Points

11:04 Women Scholars and Influences

13:24 Feedback and Early Critiques

19:51 Jesus Centered Vision for Women

21:46 Conference Invitation Chicago 2026

24:39 Hopes for the Book

25:33 When Egalitarianism Gets Real

26:45 Why Change Takes Time

30:37 Texts of Terror Overview

31:06 Women Silent in Church

33:29 Marriage and Household Codes

35:18 Authority in 1 Timothy

37:32 Hardest Passage 1 Corinthians 11

40:24 Mutuality in Paul

42:07 Conference Invite and Thanks

43:29 Closing Prayer and Support

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On this episode of Mutuality Matters: Women and Words, Host Dr. Mimi Haddad interviewed Rev. Dr. Ingrid Faro. Ingrid described her challenging childhood and young married life as one of abuse, both psychologically and physically. Her early church experience was equally difficult, as women were to be seen but not heard. In her family of origins, she felt invisible and unimportant. She was terrified of her mother and had no real relationship with her dad. Ingrid was struggling to figure out who she is and even wondered if it was safe to think her thoughts. She also wanted out of the church because, as Ingrid describes, she so wanted God to be fair, but life didn’t seem to be fair.

Ingrid shared how her first husband (a preacher and NT scholar) was unfaithful to her. He was also violent and broke her nose, landing her in the ER, where she told the attending doctors that she had an “accident,” but they were unconvinced. These and other experiences led to her struggle with the question of “theodicy,” whether God is just and good. Ingrid wondered if she could ever really trust God. This led to an exploration of God theologically. She became acquainted with and greatly admires the scholarship of the OT scholar Dr. Abraham Joshua Heschel. A passion for the OT was part of her journey.

Her second husband nurtured honest, even blunt communication, or as Brené Brown says, “clarity is kindness.” As Ingrid studied Scripture, she encountered many bold women who henceforward served as her role models! In them she found a sense of release, or as she said, “I didn’t know the weight that was on my shoulders until it was lifted off me.” Ingrid began to see God’s clear anointing on women which began with the Apostle Paul. Ingrid began to sense a calling to an academic study of Scripture, which gave her pause. She was given opportunities to say what was on her heart but felt conflicted. Then she asked herself, “Can I stand before God and say, ‘I can’t.’” She had to distinguish between a fear of people and a fear of God.

Yet the biblical “texts of terror” that appeared to silence women were very limited compared the many, many texts that welcomed their wisdom, voice and leadership. Consider Paul’s texts that seem to silence women (1 Cor. 14:34–36, 1 Tim. 2:11–15, Eph. 5:22&FF) compared to the many women Paul celebrates as co-leaders with him in preaching the gospel and leading churches, like those cited in Romans 16. More recently, Ingrid has considered the challenge of abuse in the church one of the most pressing challenges the church must address. She sometimes feels that the church is one of the most abusive places women encounter. Yet this was certainly an issue noted in Genesis 2. Here Ingrid notes the challenge of Bible translation as too often Genesis 2:18 is translated “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” The Hebrew word for “helper,” is ezer, which means “a strong rescue,” as Dave Freedman notes. “Helper” fails to describe the true meaning of ezer.

Ingrid also points to the work of Katharine Bushnell who redeems Eve by observing that she was the first person to have faith and hope in God’s promises. She also points to the following authors who have inspired her own scholarship and faith: Karen Swallow Prior, Carol L. Meyers, Edith Deen, Sandra Ritcher, Cynthia Long Westfall, and also biblical models like Abraham and Sarah.

For many years, Ingrid taught OT and has recently published the book, Redeeming Eden: How Women in the Bible Advance the Story of Salvation. Ingrid will lead a keynote and workshop at CBE’s conference this summer in Chicago, where she will also receive CBE’s Lifetime Achievement Award.

Guest Bio:
Bio: Revd. Dr. Ingrid Faro is an ordained minister and currently serves as interim president and professor of Old Testament at Northern Seminary in Chicago. She previously served as dean of academic affairs, dean of theology at the Scandinavian School of Theology, and director of master’s programs at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, where she also taught Hebrew and Old Testament. She is an international speaker and the author of Redeeming Eden: How Women in the Bible Advance the Story of Salvation with Joyce Koo Dalrymple, Demystifying Evil, co-author of Honest Answers, Evil in Genesis, co-author of forthcoming As We Forgive: A Biblical Theology of Forgiveness, as well as articles, chapters, and reviews. Prior to her work in theological education, Ingrid was an entrepreneur and president of an insurance consulting group serving one-thousand agents in thirty-five states for twenty years. Ingrid has two children and four grandchildren.

Related Resources:

Healing from Hierarchy: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/mutuality-healing-from-hierarchy/

Silent No More: Exposing Abuse Among Evangelicals: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/silent-no-more-exposing-abuse-among-evangelicals/

Her Silence Screams: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/her-silence-screams/

When Religion Hurts: How Complementarian Churches Harm Women: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/when-religion-hurts-how-complementarian-churches-hurt/

0:00 Called to Seminary

01:25 Meet Ingrid Faro

03:37 From Trauma to Theology

06:25 Studying Evil in Genesis

08:36 Why Theodicy Matters

10:31 Patriarchy and Abuse

16:56 Finding Freedom and Voice

19:31 Leading at Northern Seminary

23:17 What Did I Tell You?

26:29 Women in Theology Today

28:21 Chicago Conference Invite

29:23 Reading the Clobber Passages

31:16 Scholars Correcting Exegesis

34:04 Trauma Abuse and the Church

35:37 Genesis Reframing Creation

40:03 Women as Full Image Bearers

42:47 Old Testament Women with Voice

46:29 Key Stories Sarah Hannah Ruth

51:20 Future of Women in Ministry

54:58 Global Impact and Closing Prayer

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In this podcast, Rev. Dr. Michael F. Bird explores the crucial sociological context that often influences human interpretation of Scripture along with the complexities involved in reading passages from Paul who is considered both the ally of both egalitarians and complementarians. Spending significant time on Paul’s reference to Phoebe (Romans 16:1–2) as deacon in the church of Cenchrea. Too often we allow Paul’s passages that appear to silence women for all time (1 Timothy 2:11-15, Ephesians 5:22&FF and 1 Corinthians 14:34–36 ) overlooking the many women speaking, teaching and leading in the OT and NT, especially beside Paul and throughout Church History.

Mike considers the impact of sin on God’s original design for women and men in Gen 1:26–31. Because of sin, the mutuality enjoyed by women and men deteriorates into the male rule noted in Gen 3:16.

Supremely, Mike notes the victories of Christ in conquering sin on Calvary, along with the many passages in the New Testament that speak of the ontological mutuality and equal service of women and men, such as Proverbs 31, Galatians 3:28 but also a passage heavily cited by the Abolitionists that reads: “From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands,” Acts 17:26. Read full chapter.

Mike masterfully integrates biblical theology, church history, theology, and culture as he explores key topics impacting women, marriage, and service. His sense of humor, use of metaphor and his experiences working in the church and academy brings keen insights into the egalitarian conversation today. We hope you enjoy this episode with Dr. Mike Bird, a dear friend of CBE.

Guest Bio: The Rev. Dr. Michael F. Bird:

Mike is Deputy Principal and Lecturer in New Testament at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia. He is an Anglican priest and is married with four children. He is the author of several books including the awarding winning The Gospel of the Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesusand with N.T. Wright, The New Testament in its World.

Books published by Michael F. Bird:

• Whispers of Revolution: Jesus and the Coming King.
• Romans: Greek-English Interlinear Paraphrase Study Notes

Books published by N.T. Wright and Michael F. Bird:

• The New Testament in Its World: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of First Christians.
• Jesus and the Powers: Christian Political Witness in an Age of Totalitarian Terro and Dysfunctional Democracies.
• The New Testament in Its World Workbook: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of the First Christians.
• The New Testament You Never Knew Bible Study Guide: Exploring the Context, Purpose, and Meaning of the Story of God.
• The New Testament in Its World: An Introduction to the History, Literature, and Theology of the First Christians.
• The Gospel of the Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus, by N.T. Wright and Michael F. Bird.

Related Resources:
The Invasion of the Homoians: Trinity and Gender, Again!

Fretting Over Phoebe

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, host Dr. Mimi Haddad continues her interview with guest Dr. Joel B. Green, an expert on the Gospel of Luke, about the portrayal of women in Luke's writings. Together they explore how these depictions challenge traditional gender roles and the importance of translation choices in understanding biblical messages about authority and equality. Dr. Green highlights the radical nature of Jesus' teachings and shares insights on how women in early Christianity were active participants in ministry.

00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters
00:26 Exploring the Gospel's View on Women
01:31 Mary: A Prototypical Disciple
04:03 Women in Luke's Gospel
06:20 Men and Women in Luke's World
13:02 The Role of Women in Early Christianity
14:42 Challenges in Complementarian Contexts
21:13 Translation Issues in Key Biblical Passages
29:47 Favorite Women-Friendly Bible Translations
34:36 Concluding Thoughts and Prayer

Guest Bio

Joel B. Green joined Fuller’s faculty in 2007 and has served several administrative posts: associate dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies (2008–2016, 2019–present), dean of the School of Theology (2014–2018), and provost (2016–2018). Prior to coming to Fuller, Dr. Green served for ten years at Asbury Theological Seminary as professor of New Testament interpretation, as dean of the School of Theology, and as provost. Previous faculty and academic-administrative appointments include the American Baptist Seminary of the West / Graduate Theological Union (1992–1997) and New College for Advanced Christian Studies Berkeley (1985–1992).

Green has written or edited some 55 books, including 8 that have won awards: Connections: A Lectionary Commentary for Preaching and Worship, Year C, Volume 1, Advent through Epiphany (with Thomas Long, Luke Powery, and Cynthia Rigby, 2018), Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (2nd ed., 2013), Common English Bible Study Bible (2013), Dictionary of Scripture and Ethics (2011), In Search of the Soul: Four Views of the Mind-Body Problem (2nd ed., 2010), Introducing the New Testament: Its Literature and Theology (with Paul J. Achtemeier and Marianne Meye Thompson, 2001), The Gospel of Luke (1997), and Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (with Scot McKnight, 1992). Among his recent publications are Discovering Luke (2021), Luke as Narrative Theologian (2020), Conversion in Luke-Acts: Divine Initiative, Human Cognition, and the People of God (2015), Why Salvation? (2013), and The World of the New Testament: Cultural, Social and Historical Contexts (with Lee Martin McDonald, 2013).

He is the editor of the New International Commentary on the New Testament, as well as the Two Horizons New Testament Commentary, and serves on the editorial boards of the Journal of Theological Interpretation, Theology and Science, and Science and Christian Belief. Green has been elected to membership in both Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas (SNTS) and the International Society for Science and Religion (ISSR).

Related Resources

Teach us, Mary: The Authority of Women Teachers in the Church in Light of the Magnificat (Luke 1:46–55): https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/teach-us-mary/

The Significance of Three Narrative Parallels of Men and Women in Luke 1, John 3–4, and Acts 9:
https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/raised-obscurity-narratival-and-theological-study-characterization-women-luke-acts/

Whose Wife Will She Be? A Feminist Interpretation of Luke 20:27–38:
https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/whose-wife-will-she-be-feminist-interpretation/

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, Dr. Joel B. Green joins the conversation to discuss the importance of Bible translation and interpretation, emphasizing the inclusion of women in the process. Dr. Green, a seasoned Bible scholar and faculty administrator, shares his extensive career and insights on the subject. He underscores the necessity of diverse perspectives in translation teams, discusses common biases in Bible translations, and offers advice on how English readers can detect and overcome these biases. The episode also delves into the significance of various successful Bible translations, the training of translators, and the impact of denominational and gender diversity on the integrity of translations.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:38 Meet Dr. Joel Green

02:22 Joel Green's Academic Journey

05:38 Challenges in Bible Scholarship

06:48 The Importance of Women in Bible Translation

12:23 Overcoming Translation Bias

19:38 Training and Selecting Bible Translators

27:13 Successful Bible Translations

34:38 Conclusion and Call to Action

Guest Bio

Joel B. Green joined Fuller’s faculty in 2007 and has served several administrative posts: associate dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies (2008–2016, 2019–present), dean of the School of Theology (2014–2018), and provost (2016–2018). Prior to coming to Fuller, Dr. Green served for ten years at Asbury Theological Seminary as professor of New Testament interpretation, as dean of the School of Theology, and as provost. Previous faculty and academic-administrative appointments include the American Baptist Seminary of the West / Graduate Theological Union (1992–1997) and New College for Advanced Christian Studies Berkeley (1985–1992).

Green has written or edited some 55 books, including 8 that have won awards: Connections: A Lectionary Commentary for Preaching and Worship, Year C, Volume 1, Advent through Epiphany (with Thomas Long, Luke Powery, and Cynthia Rigby, 2018), Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (2nd ed., 2013), Common English Bible Study Bible (2013), Dictionary of Scripture and Ethics (2011), In Search of the Soul: Four Views of the Mind-Body Problem (2nd ed., 2010), Introducing the New Testament: Its Literature and Theology (with Paul J. Achtemeier and Marianne Meye Thompson, 2001), The Gospel of Luke (1997), and Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (with Scot McKnight, 1992). Among his recent publications are Discovering Luke (2021), Luke as Narrative Theologian (2020), Conversion in Luke-Acts: Divine Initiative, Human Cognition, and the People of God (2015), Why Salvation? (2013), and The World of the New Testament: Cultural, Social and Historical Contexts (with Lee Martin McDonald, 2013).

He is the editor of the New International Commentary on the New Testament, as well as the Two Horizons New Testament Commentary, and serves on the editorial boards of the Journal of Theological Interpretation, Theology and Science, and Science and Christian Belief. Green has been elected to membership in both Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas (SNTS) and the International Society for Science and Religion (ISSR).

Green has 12 years of pastoral ministry experience.

Related Resources

Intersectionality: Words Matter! Freedom through Lectionary and Bible Translation with Rev. Dr. Wilda C. Gafney: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/intersectionality-words-matter/

Women and Words: Comparing Bible Translations with Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer:
https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-comparing-bible-translations/

Women and Words: Exploring Women’s Biblical Equality Through Bible Translation with Dr. Roy Ciampa

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-exploring-womens-biblical-equality-through-bible-translation/

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of the Mutuality Matters podcast from CBE International, hosts Mimi and Charel speak with Dr. Jeannine Brown who discusses the pressing need to interpret the Biblical text of 1 Peter 3:1–7 within its first-century Greco-Roman context. Dr. Brown emphasizes the importance of understanding the cultural and historical background behind the passages on submission, particularly 1 Peter 3:1–7. She explores how Peter's household codes provide agency to often marginalized groups like wives and slaves, contrary to the hierarchical norms of the time. The conversation underscores the relevance today of recognizing and respecting context while interpreting Biblical texts—an essential factor for both scholars and modern readers.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:02 Exploring the Context of Submission in 1 Peter

00:49 Welcome and Introductions

01:33 Reading and Analyzing 1 Peter 3:1-7

02:57 Cultural Background and Interpretation

03:37 Household Codes in the Greco-Roman World

07:24 Missional Moments and Divided Households

08:20 Challenges for Christian Wives in the First Century

10:03 Slavery and Moral Agency in 1 Peter

11:28 Understanding Peter's Use of Household Codes

16:50 Modern Interpretations and Misconceptions

27:46 The Role of Headings in Biblical Interpretation

30:15 Instructions for Husbands in 1 Peter 3:7

36:30 Exploring Social and Physical Vulnerability

37:19 Interpreting 'Weaker Vessel' in Context

38:02 Challenging Traditional Views on Gender Roles

40:18 Co-Heirs and Inheritance in Early Christianity

41:50 Family Metaphors in 1 Peter

43:37 Egalitarian Impulses in the New Testament

45:28 Household Codes and Their Implications

50:08 Suffering for Good and Loyalty to Jesus

52:47 Translation Challenges and Responsibilities

58:01 Applying 1 Peter in Modern Contexts

01:04:03 Conclusion and Further Resources

Guest Bio: Dr. Jeannine Brown

Jeannine Brown is professor of New Testament at Bethel Seminary and Program Director of Bethel Seminary’s Online programs. Jeannine received in MA from Bethel Seminary, Saint Paul, MN. and her PhD from Luther seminary, Saint Paul, MN. Dr. Brown has taught at Bethel Seminary for over 20 years. She teaches in the areas of New Testament, Greek, hermeneutics, and integration.

Dr. Brown has focused much of her research and writing on the Gospels, hermeneutics, and interdisciplinary integration. In addition to a book on biblical hermeneutics (Scripture as Communication, now in second edition) and two books on integration, she has published three commentaries on Matthew's Gospel and one on Philippians (Tyndale NT series). She is a member of the NIV translation team and is an editor for the NIV Study Bible, revised edition (2020). Her current writing projects include a commentary 1 Peter (NICNT) and book on themes in 1 Peter. Jeannine’s other published works include: Scripture as Communication (2021, 2007); The Gospels as Stories (2020); Relational Integration of Psychology and Christian Theology (2018); Becoming Whole and Holy: An Integrative Conversation about Christian Formation(2011); Embedded Genres in the New Testament: Understanding Their Impact for Interpretation and three commentaries on the Gospel of Matthew (2018, 2015, 2012). Jeannine Brown co-edited the second edition of Jesus and the Gospels (2013). She has published numerous journal articles and book essays on the Gospels of Matthew and John, 1 Peter, and topics of hermeneutics. Some of these have been published in Journal of Biblical Literature, New Testament Studies, Catholic Biblical Quarterly, and Horizons in Biblical Theology. Jeannine thoroughly enjoys teaching in churches and ministries on the topics of Bible interpretation and the New Testament. She is married to Tim Brown, singer-songwriter, and has two adult daughters.

Story Notes

Today’s podcast focused on 1 Pet 3:1–7. In the NIV it reads:

"Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear. Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers."

Exploring the cultural background, Jeannine suggests that Peter is calling Christians to display behaviors that reflect Christ even as male dominance was a given. Jeannine explained that in the first century, Roman interest in well-organized households should mirror a well-organized Rome. Roman citizens were to live harmoniously within a well-organized Roman household. Where the passage makes a surprising move is in the call for husbands to have empathy for their wives with a consequence: that God will hear their prayers. Further Christian wives should view themselves beyond the cultural standard of female beauty. As the passage states: it’s not the adorning of women’s outer selves but their inner lives of faith in God. Doing right, and with faith that does not give into fear given God is ultimately in control. This passage is countercultural in its emphasis on Christian faith and the development of a peaceful inner life both of which acknowledge God’s supremacy versus that of emperor’s.

This passage calls both husbands and wives to do what is right: to be brave, to have faith in God who rules over all of Rome’s emperors, verse 7, to live within a culture with very differing values that offend Christian moral life. In this passage there is a tension in negotiating life lived in a culture at odds with Christian values, supremely concerning the divinity Jesus, or that of an emperor. While Jesus died on a Roman cross, even so, the passage evokes faith and courage in Christian households. The passage is helpful to missionaries in similar circumstances. How to live with courage and faith, elevating the gospel with behavior more often than words in a culture that exploited slaves and women.

Turning to 1 Peter 3:7 that reads:

"Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers."

The Petrine texts lean into sibling language, especially that of children, which overall is very egalitarian in the cultural context of first century. Further, the language of “father” was not very much present in NT as it was in 1st century non-Christian texts. God’s children in Christ were to face each other in humility and this very egalitarian impulse in relating to one another. God is father, but in Christ we’re all siblings. Women and men are co-heirs is throughout NT. Leadership structure are notes but not ones in the NT.

The whole Petrine text is a significant challenge to the top-down rule from emperor as God down throughout the household structure which was central. Given what Peter is doing with family metaphors—of believers as children / siblings who are to love earnestly as family love each other, and as the elders are a group too much have wisdom but must lead by example. These impulses, leader on top, and wife below: this does simplify decisions, but this is not the texture of Peter. As he thinks of his context, and the household code, it is not a prescription but a triage—a pathway for healing top-down leadership. It’s what Christians do in an emergency. Emergency advice to the Christian community so it can survive. It’s about survival for the most vulnerable. The thrust of text is a call to attentiveness to the most vulnerable. In light of Tom Holland’s book—Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World—in brutal detail reveals the cruelty of Rome. In thinking of our next, the advice is that even if you suffer for doing good, you are blessed. And take comfort in that truth and knowledge that even those who slanders you, remain loyal to Christ, if you suffer as Jesus did, you will also share in his glory.

In fascinating detail, Jeannine describes the history of Bible translation and the canonical review that follows. For the NIV team, on which she contributes, their voting policy requires a 75% majority in approving translation choices. Thus, the team must make a compelling case to change something, so for 1 Peter, and the NT generally, it’s always wise to examine and read many translations to see differences.

In considering the backdrop in which the text arises, submission is not a new requirement. What is new for this culture is to ask that all behavior must be Christ-like. While believers are clearly frightened by opposition to Christian faith, the text calls them to act in ways that others will recognize their soul-allegiance to Christ. Win others over to Christ not out of fear but confident behavior that imitates Christ’s live. Jeannine recommends entering the text with a disciplined imagination that brings implications of texts to life then and now. Idolatry is key issue underlining the concerns in this text which encourages faith and living life not with words but by example.

Jeannine points listeners to the following resources:

• Nijay Gupta’s book, Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught and Ministered in the Early Church.
• Listen to Jeannine Brown’s Hayward Lectures at Acadia Divinity College

Jeannie will resume this conversation in subsequent episodes of Women and Worlds: Exploring the Difficult Passages.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by Mimi Haddad and produced by CBE International, guest Mayra Ugalde addresses the importance of women's leadership and service in the church, as guided by biblical teachings. She emphasizes the necessity of obedience to Jesus over cultural obstacles and discusses the significance of both Old and New Testament scriptures in supporting women’s roles in ministry. The episode also explores the impact of failed interpretations and translation errors on women's roles in religious contexts. Additionally, it underscores the importance of personal biblical study and the need for Bible translations accessible to all languages and cultures. The conversation encourages women to fulfill their God-given purpose without fear of societal judgment.

00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks00:23 Encouragement for Women in Ministry00:56 Challenges in Biblical Interpretation03:24 Biblical Support for Women's Leadership03:49 The Importance of Service and Obedience08:29 Recommendations for Bible Translations11:53 Women in Scripture and Mission12:31 Transformation Through Biblical Teachings22:39 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell

Related Resources

Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1
Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 2
Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 3
Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 4

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Kim talks to Rt. Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango about the East Africa Revival Movement that began in 1927 and is still reverberating through East Africa today. Begun by two people praying for true faith in the Anglican church, the movement grew among laypeople to denominations across East Africa, challenging patriarchy, tribalism, and racism. Because one priest oversaw six or seven churches, women empowered by the spirit preached, shared their testimonies and lead their churches. They dressed in white to mark their new way of living, and today a few of these very elderly women still challenge and influence church leadership today. At the time of the revival, Kenya’s practice of polygamy was at an all-time high, yet these believers lived monogamous, egalitarian marriages. They sent their daughters to school in addition to their sons, and the changed the fabric of society. Today, the leaders against government corruption and tribal sectarianism have their roots in the East Africa Revival Movement.

Guest Bio 
Right Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango is the first woman in the history of the Anglican Church in Kenya to be elected as bishop. She serves as senior lecturer and dean of students at St. Paul’s University in Limuru, Kenya. She earned a PhD from the University of Wales, as well as a Master of Theology from the Asian Center for Theological Studies and Mission in Seoul, South Korea, and a bachelor's degree from St. Paul’s University, Limuru. She is the author of Gender and Development: A History of Women’s Education in Kenya.

CBE Resources: Women's History Month: The African Face of Global Evangelicalism by Mimi Haddad https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/womens-history-month-the-african-face-of-global-evangelicalism/

by Emily Onyango:

Read: The Negative Consequences of Dowry Payment on Women and Society https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/negative-consequences-dowry-payment-women-and-society/

Watch: Working Towards Mutuality as a Mark of Christian Identity: A Case of the Work of the African Church for Biblical Equality https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/working-towards-mutuality-mark-christian-identity-case-work-african-church/

Listen: The Challenge of Gender Based Violence in Kenya and the Response of the Church https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/challenge-gender-based-violence-kenya-and-response-church/

The Challenge of the Resurgence of Negative Aspects of African Cultural Practices Among Christians in Kenya https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/challenge-resurgence-negative-aspects-african-cultural-practices-among/

Global Impact: The Work of Service Not Power in the Anglican Church of Kenya with Rt Rev Dr Emily Onyango https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/global-impact-work-service-not-power-anglican-church-kenya-rt-rev-dr-emily-onyango/

Disclaimer : The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, interviews Mayra Ugalde who delves into the significant role women played in Paul's ministry and offers insights into commonly misunderstood biblical passages used to limit women's roles in church and society. The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding the cultural context of scripture, the equality in Christ beyond gender, and the mutual submission in Christian marriage. Various translations of key texts like Ephesians 5 and Genesis 3:16 are compared to highlight biases and interpretations. The episode concludes with a call to read the Bible holistically to grasp its true message of equality and mutuality in Christ.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:35 The Importance of Bible Translations

02:53 Women in the Bible: Lessons from Mark

03:54 Jesus' Acceptance of Women's Offerings

08:01 Encouragement for Women in Ministry

09:38 Women as Witnesses and Apostles

15:40 Addressing Difficult Bible Passages

24:46 Equality in Christ

25:37 Phoebe and Women Leaders in the Early Church

28:42 Biblical Texts on Marriage and Mutual Submission

39:36 Interpreting Genesis 3:16

43:17 The Role of Sin and Grace in the Bible

46:21 The Church as a Demonstration of God's Kingdom

48:35 Conclusion and Call to Action

Related Resources

Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1 https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-from-oppression-to-empowerment-women-in-scripture/

Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 2

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-the-intersection-of-culture-and-bible-translation/

Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 3

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/women-and-words-the-intersection-of-culture-and-bible-translation-part-3/

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Kim talks to Dr. Carmen Joy Imes about the women of Exodus. Dr. Imes brings her deep knowledge of Exodus to the average Christian audience, explaining how the structure and literary parallels of Exodus to show how the women are the rescuers of Moses, who then rescues the Hebrews. She provides the details of the midwives’ spiritual work of saving lives. She demonstrates how Pharaoh’s daughter displayed God’s character as she sees Moses’ misery, heard his cry, and took pity on him. She explains the Hebrew that illustrates how Miriam took a stand at the river to address Pharaoh’s daughter just as Moses later took a stand to address Pharaoh. And she explains how Zipporah literally saved Moses’ life as he decided which people group he belonged. Amidst these detailed portrayals of the Exodus women, Dr. Imes also points out the narrator’s use of humor to depict the bumbling and nameless Pharaoh.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:02 Exploring the Role of Zipporah in Exodus

01:04 Meet Dr. Carmen Joy IMEs

02:06 The Mystery of Exodus 4:24-25

03:26 Theological and Structural Significance of Zipporah

14:33 The Role of Women in the Early Chapters of Exodus

21:49 Elevating Women in Scripture

22:00 A Word from CBE

22:37 The Women of Exodus: Zipporah, Pua, and Shiphrah

22:52 The Story of Moses' Birth and the Women Who Saved Him

32:07 Moses' Identity and His Encounter with God

39:37 Closing Thoughts and Resources

41:20 Final Remarks and How to Stay Connected

Guest Bio 

Dr. Carmen Joy Imes is associate professor of Old Testament at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University, in Southern California. She is the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters, Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters, and the forthcoming Becoming God's Family: Why the Church Still Matters. Carmen has a YouTube channel where she releases weekly Torah Tuesday videos and you can find her writing on various websites, including Christianity Today, The Well, and The Politics of Scripture blog. Carmen is passionate about equipping the church to engage the Old Testament well and to see its relevance for the Christian life.

Find Dr. Carmen Imes at:

X: @carmenjoyimes

Bluesky: @carmenjoyimes.bsky.social

YouTube – Torah Tuesday: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6bwfe08fufzGaY2YImWQK12Ye7VX15X2

Resources Mentioned in the Interview:

Becoming God's Family: Why the Church Still Matters

Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters

Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters

Every Woman’s Bible published by Tyndale

Other CBE Resources:

Defiant: What the Women of Exodus Teach Us About Freedom by Kelley Nikondeha.

“Rational and Emotional Faith” by Megan Greulich in Mutuality

“Who’s Who? Biblical Models of Women in Leadership” by Gracy Ying May in Priscilla Papers

“Black is Blessed: A Study of Black/African Women and Men in Scripture” by Catherine Clark Kroeger in Priscilla Papers

“Defiant: What the Women of Exodus Teach us about Freedom” by Mary Lou Wiley a Book Review on Defiant

Women in Scripture and Mission: Zipporah by Kimberly Dickson

Women in Scripture and Mission: Miriam by Kimberly Dickson

Women in Scritpure and History: Puah and Shiphrah by Kimberly Dickson

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, the focus is on the significance of Bible translation and its impact on women's lives worldwide, especially in Latin America. Special guest Maya Ugalde, honorary director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica, shares her extensive experience in Bible publishing and distribution. The discussion covers the importance of diverse translation teams, avoiding biases, and the role of traditional translations in fostering a deeper connection with God.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

01:19 Welcoming Our Esteemed Guest: Maya

02:48 The Importance of Diverse Translation Teams

05:49 Overcoming Bias in Bible Translations

10:38 Successful Bible Translations: A Global Perspective

16:42 The Role of Traditional Language in Bible Reading

28:46 The Spirit in the Text: Engaging with God's Word

31:00 Critical Thinking in Bible Translations

35:37 Conclusion and Future Discussions

Guest Bio

Mayra currently serves as Honorary Director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica, where she serves in different areas of the publishing, promoting, and distribution of the Bible all over Costa Rica for more of 43 years. Mayra also serves on the Publishing Committee for the United Bible Society where she participates in developing and publishing different study Bibles and specifically in the developing of the Bible for Latin American women that’s called The Women in the Bible and also a Bible for adult women that was called The Bible I Adore.

Mayra has an MBA in Administration, and a postgraduate degree in Bible. She publishes articles in national newspapers and nowadays writes devotionals and blogs leading readers to interact with the Bible.

Related Resources

Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1

Women and Words: The Intersection of Culture and Bible Translation with Mayra Ugalde: Part 2

How American Evangelicalism Has Been Weaponized Against Women

IJM’s Fight Against Gender-Based Violence in Latin America with Brad Twedt

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Kim talks to Rev Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt about Mary Magdalene. She discusses the Biblical witness of Mary Magdalene, and what happened historically to Mary so that she came to be understood as a prostitute. She also discusses the meaning of Apostle and why the Eastern and Western churches remember Mary Magdalene as an apostle to the apostles.

Bio 

Rev. Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt is the Franklin S. Dyrness professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Wheaton College. She is an award-winning author, fellow in the Royal Historical Society, and ordained teaching elder in the Presbyterian church. Her latest books are Know the Theologians (Zondervan, 2024), a finalist in the 2024 CT Book Awards for Popular Theology, and The Mary We Forgot (Brazos, 2024). She and her husband co-founded McNuttshell Ministries that seeks to serve as a bridge between the church and academy.

Find Rev, Dr Jennifer McNutt

• Substack: The McNuttshell https://substack.com/@jenniferpowellmcnutt
• Contact: https://jenniferpowellmcnutt.com
• McNuttshell Ministries: https://mcnuttshellministries.com

Scripture References

• Woman identified as “Sinner Woman” that gets conflated with Mary Magdalene: Luke 7
• Highlighting women with Jesus, part of his ministry, traveling with Jesus: Luke Chapter 8:1-3
• Scriptural definition of Apostles: 1 Cor 15, 1 John 1,
• Mary’s Message and Being Sent: John 20, Matthew 28, Luke 23-24, Acts 1

Other Resources Mentioned in Interview:

Scholars who have investigated Roman system of patronage: Lynn Cohick, Amy Brown Hughs, Susan Highland

CBE Resources:

• Book Review of Jennifer Powell McNutt’s, The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostle Teaches the Church Today by Kimberly Dickson
• Women in Scripture and History: Mary Magdalene by Kimberly Dickson
• To learn about the Middle Eastern culture and its impact on the movements of men versus women and children, see: “God’s Word to Middle Eastern Women,” by Kevin Zabihi in Mutuality, October 20, 2021.
• “Christ is Risen: The Nonsense of a Hysterical Woman,” by Chesna Hinkley in Mutuality April 15, 2020.
• “Frequently Asked Questions about Mary Magdalene,” by Lidija Novakovic in Prisicilla Papers, June 5, 2006.

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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This episode of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by CBE International, features an in-depth discussion with Mayra Ugalde, the Honorary Director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica. Mayra shares her perspective on growing up in a Latin family with traditional gender roles and delves into the complexities of Bible translation. She emphasizes the importance of diverse translation teams to avoid bias and promote a holistic understanding of Scripture. The episode also touches on the historical and cultural contexts in biblical narratives and highlights the significant roles women have played in both the Old and New Testaments. Through shared expertise, listeners are encouraged to engage with the Bible personally and critically, guided by the Holy Spirit and informed by a community of believers.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

01:29 Welcome and Guest Introduction

03:05 Complexities of Bible Translation

05:42 Diverse Perspectives in Translation

11:22 The Role of Commentaries in Bible Reading

14:38 Women and the Bible: Cultural Contexts

20:29 Women Leaders in Christianity

30:00 Boaz and Ruth: A Cultural Example

35:16 Conclusion and Future Episodes

Guest Bio

Mayra currently serves as Honorary Director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica, where she serves in different areas of the publishing, promoting, and distribution of the Bible all over Costa Rica for more of 43 years. Mayra also serves on the Publishing Committee for the United Bible Society where she participates in developing and publishing different study Bibles and specifically in the developing of the Bible for Latin American women that’s called The Women in the Bible and also a Bible for adult women that was called The Bible I Adore.

Mayra has an MBA in Administration, and a postgraduate degree in Bible. She publishes articles in national newspapers and nowadays writes devotionals and blogs leading readers to interact with the Bible.

Related Resources

Women and Words: From Oppression to Empowerment with Mayra Ugalde: Part 1

How American Evangelicalism Has Been Weaponized Against Women

IJM’s Fight Against Gender-Based Violence in Latin America with Brad Twedt

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, we’re joined by Rev. Dr. Emily McGowin, professor of theology at Wheaton College and author of the new book Households of Faith, to discuss the theology of family.

Guest Bio

The Rev. Dr. Emily McGowin is associate professor of theology atWheaton College. She is also a priest and canon theologian in the Anglican diocese ofChurches for the Sake of Others (C4SO). Her latest book,Households of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God is now available for pre-order from IVP. Dr. McGowin earned a Ph.D. in theology from the University of Dayton, M.Div. from Baylor University’s Truett Seminary, and a B.A. in biblical studies from Criswell College. She has been teaching theology in university, high school, and local church settings for almost 20 years. She is married to Ron and they have three teen children. Together they enjoy exploring forest preserves
and playingDungeons & Dragons.

• Follow Emily on Facebook, Instagram, and X
• Visit Emily’s Website
• Buy a copy of Households of Faith

Related Resources

Mutuality Matters: A Theology of Family + An Apocalyptic Advent

How One Church Is Growing Toward Full Biblical Mutuality

Culture, Gender, and the Family

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:02 Cultural Background and Personal Story

01:33 Guest Introduction: Mayra Ugalde

03:24 Mayra's Experience with the Bible

07:22 Impact of the Bible on Women's Lives

13:41 Challenges and Misinterpretations

16:40 Mayra's Work and Contributions

21:38 Jesus's View of Women

24:02 Translation vs. Interpretation

43:49 God's Maternal Love

52:11 Conclusion and Resources

Speaking as a Christian born, raised and in the Latin culture where she continues to work, Mayra explores the complex influence and tension between Bible translation and culture, including Bible culture. Mayra observes how often culture and church tradition have more influence than one’s one reading of Scripture. Mayra briefly explores the history of Christianity in Latin America with the influence of the Catholic church. It wasn’t until 1966 that the dominant religion opened opportunities for lay people to read Scripture, on their own. At this time, the British and Foreign Bible Society distributed these throughout Latin America. As people began to read the Bible, they began to change some of their perspectives.

Mayra’s mother believed her daughters should serve their brothers. Mayra’s father treated her brothers as kings. Her father said women should have and raise children. Life’s work was defined by gender. Mayra met a man who did not believe girls and women should read the Bible without a man in the room. Reading scripture for herself, Mayra found Sheerah’s story (1 Chron. 7:20–24) empowering Though Sheerah’s father was disgraced by having a daughter, Scripture notes that her name means “At least one woman”; and this one daughter--Sheerah brought honor to her family and nation by building two large, strategic, and successful cities. While people believe that God’s word says negative things about females, if read well, Scripture challenges gender bias by honoring women like Sheerah as strong rescuers.

Throughout her career, Mayra noticed how Bible translations and commentaries teams were produced by scholars holding to a single perspective. From this she learned the importance of including scholars that honor the authority of Scripture yet hold diverse perspectives on key issues. Mayra reminds us that the Holy Spirit guides us as we read Scripture. This is especially true and crucial for women who too often are told by pastors what the Scripture says about women. But by reading the text themselves, the Spirit can liberate women from cultural, church and denominational gender bias. Women in the Church have to read the Bible for themselves to hear the Lord speaking to them because the pastors are not God, as Paul said about the people from Berea, in Acts 17:11 “... Day after day they studied the Scriptures to see if these things were true.”

It is fascinating how Jesus interpreted Scripture, introducing woman as the “daughter of Abraham” at a time when women were not considered equal heirs with the “sons of Abraham.” Luke’s Gospel is very clear about the welcome Jesus gave to women.

Mayra discusses the importance of understanding Bible translation as a science. Skilled translators understand Bible culture and realize that Scripture was written by about 40 authors over 1,200 years. In lapses of time like this, there were vast changes in the culture; in languages; and in the people’s views. The Bible is a collection of books of many authors from many differing cultures, many of whom did not know each other. It’s important to understand the unique culture of each text we read and to understand what is applicable for us today.

Consider the story of Vashti (Esther 1.15-20) as it honors how Vashti challenged the cultural expectation that a wife obeys their husband in everything even as he asks her to do something morally reprehensible. Vashti resisted evil. Her expectation was that her husband would behave as Paul notes in Ephesians 5:25-33.

When you read the Bible, you need to recognize the historical and cultural context of the text, as every culture upholds good and permits evil. Mayra considers the story of Hagar and Gen 1:26–27 (woman is created in God’s image); Gal 3:26–30 that being clothed in Christ is our highest identity regardless of race, class or gender; that Jesus found women who suffered (in Samaria and Syrophoenicia) and he freed and gave women respect, dignity and empowerment.

Mayra explored the Motherly Love of God as it heals the church, especially women. God’s Motherly Love is noted in:

• Gen. 3:8–21 when God sewed clothes (like a mother) for Adam and Eve, after they sinned and were naked and afraid. God does not abandon his son and daughter after they sin but sends them his maternal love. God loves us from his depth, from the bottom of his heart. God has maternal love for his creation, and for the human being.
• In Hosea 11:3–4 Like a mother, God took Israel by the arm and taught them to walk. But they would not admit that I was the one who had healed them. 4 I led them with kindness and with love, not with ropes. I held them close to me; I bent down to feed them.
• Deut. 32:11 God, like a mother bird, swooping down to catch it’s young
• Isaiah 49:15 God, like a mother, cannot forget the child she bore, fed and nursed with her own body. Even if a mother forgets her child, God cannot not forget God’s children.

Guest Bio

Mayra Ugalde currently serves as Honorary Director of the Bible Society of Costa Rica, where serve in different areas of the Publishing, Promoting and Distribution of the Bible in all over the country, for more of 43 years. Also serves in the Publishing Committee for the all American Continent in the United Bible Society, where participate in the developing and publishing different study Bibles and specifically in the developing of Bible with helps for the women for Latin America that’s call “The Women in the Bible” and also a Bible with helps for the women in the adult time that was call “The Bible I Adore”. Mayra has an MBA in Administration, and Postgraduate in Bible, publish articles in national newspapers and nowadays writes devotionals and blogs leading readers to interact with the Bible.

Other CBE Resources

God as Motherly Father and Fatherly Mother

Three (Faulty) Objections to Feminine Language for God

Why Mothers Matter as much as Fathers in Shaping Our Perception of God

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Married couple Kelsey and Dane Schuett are together…a lot. Not only do they serve on the same church staff team, but they also serve alongside one another in mission with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. Most importantly, they are co-parenting their young son Leo. In this episode, hosts Rob and Layla are joined by Dane and Kelsey who invite listeners into their theological journeys, the joys and struggles of partnering together, and their vision for an egalitarian community where “people get our best, not our must.”

Guest Bios

Kelsey and Dane Schuett are campus staff ministers with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship at UC Santa Barbara and Santa Barbara City College. They are also pastors at New Life Church Santa Barbara. Kelsey and Dane live here in Santa Barbara, CA, with their one-year-old son, Leo. They both love coffee, the beach, sit-coms, our InterVarsity students, music and worship, and our awesome faith community!

Kelsey Schuett’s sermon: https://nlcsb.org/media/r9fsvmv/advent-week-2

Related Resources
Leading Together in Christ: A Biblical View of Authority

Leading Together: Lessons From Sharing Leadership in Ministry and Marriage

Women and Men Leading Together: “Exchanging a Muzzle for a Microphone” with Rici and Phil Skei

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This episode is a part of a segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society. In this special two-part interview, we’re joined by Zachary C. Wagner, director of programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians and author of Non-Toxic Masculinity, to discuss the role unhelpful views of masculinity impact how women and men function together.

Guest Bio

Zachary Wagner is a writer, researcher, and ordained minister––thinker of thoughts and feeler of feelings who lives in Chicagoland. He is pursuing a DPhil (PhD) in New Testament studies at Keble College, University of Oxford. He also serves as the director of Programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians, where he co-hosts the CPT Podcast. His research interests include economics in the ancient world, divine wages in Second Temple Judaism and early Christianity, Pauline epistles, the Gospel of Matthew, and New Testament masculinities. His first book, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality, was published in 2023 with Intervarsity Press. Zach’s other writing interests include evangelical and “post-vangelical” Christian discipleship, theological formation, and speaking against church-based abuse.

• Buy Zachary’s book, Non-Toxic Masculinity
• Follow Zachary on Instagram and X
• Read “Broken Masculinity” on the Center for Pastor Theologians

Related Resources

New Voices: Non-Toxic Masculinity with Zachary Wagner

Let God Reign: Ditching the Umbrellas of Hierarchy

Let’s Stop Talking about Masculinity and Start Talking about Discipleship

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In the second episode, Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer to explore key ways Scripture goes against the grain of culture. While some scholars uphold Bible cultural as the moral standard, Aída encouraged readers to begin in the New Testament. For example, in the story of Martha and Mary (Luke 10:38-42), Martha was anxious that Mary would help her serve the disciples a meal. But Jesus said, “Martha, Martha … You are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed—or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.” Jesus reversed women’s priorities from domestic spheres to theological spheres: learn God’s truth. Paul also said, in 1 Tim 2:11, “A woman should learn in quietness (silence) and full submission.” Insisting on women’s silence was/is a to call women to learn as the theological scholars (Rabbis) did at the time of Christ, in silence—with rapt focus. Aída believes we need more scholarly reflection on women and silence in Scripture.

Aída ends with a warning to always view people as created in God’s image and considers passages also embrace the shared dignity and agency of women. Reflecting on the marginalization for Native Americans who were accused of and punished for alleged idol worship, by white colonizes who believed they were given the US given as theocracy, Aída and her husband William David Spencer address both topic in a powerful article titled, Calling on God or Colonial Oppression.

Aída addresses the leadership of women in the early church, with a focus on context. Whereas women’s leadership in Ephesus was different from women in other contexts, like women planting churches like Lydia in Greece.

Aída ends by reflecting on Helen Barrett Montgomery (1861-1934) was elected the first president of national Woman’s American Baptist Foreign Mission Society. She was also elected the first president (and woman) of an American denomination, the Northern Baptist Convention in 1920. She’s also the first woman to translate the New Testament in 1924. Her translation of Roman 16:1-3—interpreted Pheobe as a “minister” and “overseer,” yet it has taken so very long for other translators to see the same biblical truth (in 1843). Barrett Montgonery’s The New Testament in Modern English was republished in 1952, and translated Romans 16:1-2: “I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a minister of the church at Cenchreae. I beg you to give her a Christian welcome, as the saints should, and to assist her in any matter in which she may have need of you. for she herself has been made an overseer to many people, including myself.” Prostateo, the verb meaning to be leader or ruler of, hold office, authority for providing, regent (Liddell & Scott’s classical dictionary).

Guest Bio
Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer, Ph.D., Th.M., M.Div., is Senior Professor of New Testament at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, S. Hamilton, MA. Born and reared in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, she has served as community organizer, minister, and educator in a variety of urban and suburban settings. She has over 200 publications, including 20 books, among these are commentaries of James, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, and 2 Corinthians and books encouraging women in leadership, such as Beyond the Curse: Women Called to Ministry, Global Voices on Biblical Equality, Christian Egalitarian Leadership, The Goddess Revival: A Biblical Response to Goddess Spirituality, Marriage at the Crossroads, and the novel Cave of Little Faces. An ordained Presbyterian minister, she is married to the Rev. Dr. William David Spencer. Their blog is entitled Applying Biblical Truths Today. They have one adult son, Stephen.

Related Resources

Creating Gender-Accurate Bible Translations

Video: Gender-Accurate Bible Translation Panel

Presumption, Bias, and Gender Accuracy in Bible Translation

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In this episode, Kim talks to Dr. Boaz Johnson about the Indian scholar and activist Pandita Ramabai. Through this interview we hear both about Dr. Johnson’s own background growing up in India and how the writings of Pandita Ramabai influenced his own faith. As the interview unfolds, we follow the progression of Ramabai’s own life from being an orphaned Hindu whose father secretly taught her the Hindu religious scriptures to becoming a Christian challenging and re-translating the poor bible translations. Always a rule breaker, Pandita Ramabai left a legacy of how to stand for the truth of God’s word.

Guest Bio 

Rev. Boaz Johnson (PhD, Trinity International University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is a professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at North Park University in Chicago, IL. His writing has appeared in publications such as Christianity Today and The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society.

Resources by Dr. Boaz Johnson

Mutuality Matters podcast: Women and Words: Women Pioneers in Bible Translation with Dr. Boaz Johnson

Mutuality Magazine: Pandita Ramabai's Legacy: How Gender Conscious Bible Translation Impacts Christian Ministry

CBE International Conference Audios:

Pandita Ramabai: India and the Pandemic, Plague, Plight of Women with Boaz Johnson at the 2020 CBE International Conference

Male, Female, Slave, and Free in the Context of a Pandemic: In the Thought of Katharine Bushnell at the 2022 CBE International Conference

Related Resources

Words Matter: How a Corrected Bible Translation Transformed a Community by Kimberly Dickson

The Theological Quest of an Indian Woman: Dogma, Doubts, and Debates in Pandita Ramabai’s Early Christian Life

Caste and Gender in India: The Bakht Singh Assemblies and Egalitarianism

Radio: Women in Scripture and Mission

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society. In this special two-part interview, we’re joined by Zachary C. Wagner, director of programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians and author of Non-Toxic Masculinity, to discuss the role unhelpful views of masculinity impact how women and men function together.

Guest Bio

Zachary Wagner is a writer, researcher, and ordained minister––thinker of thoughts and feeler of feelings who lives in Chicagoland. He is pursuing a DPhil (PhD) in New Testament studies at Keble College, University of Oxford. He also serves as the director of Programs for the Center for Pastor Theologians, where he co-hosts the CPT Podcast. His research interests include economics in the ancient world, divine wages in Second Temple Judaism and early Christianity, Pauline epistles, the Gospel of Matthew, and New Testament masculinities. His first book, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality, was published in 2023 with Intervarsity Press. Zach’s other writing interests include evangelical and “post-vangelical” Christian discipleship, theological formation, and speaking against church-based abuse.

• Buy Zachary’s book, Non-Toxic Masculinity
• Follow Zachary on Instagram and X
• Read “Broken Masculinity” on the Center for Pastor Theologians

Related Resources

New Voices: Non-Toxic Masculinity with Zachary Wagner

Jesus’ Vision for Masculinity: The (Actual) Best A Man Can Get

My Kingdom for A World of Such Men: 3 Hallmarks of Healthy Masculinity

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In the first episode, host Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer to discuss Bible translation. Aída considers the different goals of translation teams from translations focused on a word for word translation; to meaning for meaning; to thought for thought and those that are a paraphrase. Each translation team from the NRSV, to the NIV, KJV and the ESV elevate their priorities in ways that are often helpful. In addressing the complexities of Bible translation, Aída gave the following helpful insight. She said:

• Translators are caught between rendering Form vs. meaning. A “formal translation”/formal-equivalence/literal/word for word/linguistic= Translation tries to preserve form (syntax and sentence structure) of the original to convey meaning. The emphasis is the original text, E.g. NRSV, NAS. It Allows the reader to interpret.
• A “dynamic-equivalence”/functional-equivalence/cultural =Translation expresses the original meaning in the natural form of the receptor language. The receptor language is emphasized. Translators seek equivalence in meaning or thought for thought translation, E.g., TEV, NEB. It does more interpretation for readers.
• A “paraphrase”=A freely rendered restatement (of another translation) of the author’s thoughts in different words. But it is not a commentary, e.g. Living Bible, The Message.

Aída cited those who contribute to the ESV team, noting their commitment to male-authority. She also expressed her preference for the NRSV assessing how the different translations render the crucial text 1 Tim 2:4–5—as it explains the work of Christ. She said:

1. “who desires all people (anthrōpōs) to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men (anthrōpōs), the man (anthrōpōs) Christ Jesus,” ESV
2. “who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,” NIV
3. “who wants all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, (NASB)
4. “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (KJV)
5. “who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, (NRSVupdated)+ CEB
6. “God wants everyone to be saved and to know the whole truth, which is, There is only one God, and Christ Jesus is the only one who can bring us to God. Jesus was truly human. (CEV)-a dynamic equivalent
7. “Our Creator longs to set all people free and guide them into the full understanding of the truth. For there is only one Great Spirit, and only one who can bring the Great Spirit and human beings together in peace. That one is Creator Sets Free (Jesus) the Chosen One, who is himself human.” (First Nations Version)
8. “Our Savior God wants all humans to be saved and to come into knowledge of truth. For God is one, one is also a mediator between God and humans, human Christ Jesus, the One having given himself as a ransom on behalf of all” (ABS). 1 Timothy NCCS ABS 48-51

For clarity on confusing passages that seem to diminish the dignity, value and agency of women or minorities, Aída recommends Bible translation teams comprised of men and women who do not unite in their preference for male-leadership as the ESV translation team does. Aída also celebrated the diversity of opinion on the NIV translation team which is led by expert Bible translators who differ on their view on women’s leadership. It’s always better to move beyond a single narrative on key issues.

Aída discussed the NT and OT texts that challenge 3 New Testament passages (1 Tim. 2:11-15; Eph. 5:21-23) which routinely eclipse the many passages that demonstrate women’s leadership, like Acts 2:2-21; Gal. 3:28 and passages that demonstrate the leadership of Huldah and Deborah.

Aída ends by emphasizing the oneness of man and woman, cited in Genesis 1:26-30 as both were called to rule over the world together, in a world without sin. Paul picks this up in Galatians 3:28, we are clothed in Christ—a purple robe, our true identity.

In considering marriage, specifically in Eph. 5. Aída explained that Ephesians 5:18-21 is one sentence in Greek, with 2 main ideas:

“And do not get yourself intoxicated with an intoxicating substance, in which is wild living, but be filled with the Spirit.

What does it mean to be filled with the Spirit?

Paul then uses 5 participles to describe what it means to be filled with the Spirit:

1. “speaking to one another in psalm and hymns and spiritual songs,
2. Singing
3. Making melody in your heart to the Lord
4. Thanking always for all in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to Father- God
5. Submitting yourselves to one another in fear/respect of Christ.”

Verse 22 has no verb in the best Greek manuscripts: “the women…to own husbands as to the Lord…”

Aída will return next month to address Bible translation as it has been used to further abuse and ethnic prejudice rather than human flourishing.

Guest Bio

Rev. Dr. Aída Besançon Spencer, Ph.D., Th.M., M.Div., is senior professor of New Testament at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, S. Hamilton, MA. Born and reared in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, she has served as community organizer, minister, and educator in a variety of urban and suburban settings. She has over 200 publications, including 20 books, among these are commentaries of James, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, and 2 Corinthians and books encouraging women in leadership, such as Beyond the Curse: Women Called to Ministry, Global Voices on Biblical Equality, Christian Egalitarian Leadership, The Goddess Revival: A Biblical Response to Goddess Spirituality, Marriage at the Crossroads, and the novel, Cave of Little Faces. An ordained Presbyterian minister, she is married to the Rev. Dr. William David Spencer. Their blog is entitled Applying Biblical Truths Today. They have one adult son, Stephen.

Related Resources

Creating Gender-Accurate Bible Translations

Video: Gender-Accurate Bible Translation Panel

Presumption, Bias, and Gender Accuracy in Bible Translation

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Kim talks to Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall. Dr. Westfall shares her background, providing context that helps explain her interest in the New Testament and Paul. Her mentors, service, analytical mind and questions led her into digging into the New Testament and Paul, and women’s sexuality. She provides excellent context and interpretations of Paul’s difficult passages. She specifically focuses on how Paul instructs the church to honor the traditionally discarded women with the Ancient Corinthain symbol of honorable women, the head covering.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters Podcast

00:24 Meet Dr. Cynthia Westfall

01:07 Cynthia's Journey to Faith and Scholarship

03:19 Struggles with Traditional Interpretations

07:07 Embracing Egalitarianism

15:01 Paul's Subversion of Cultural Norms

19:51 Introduction to the Topic

20:26 Traditional Interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11

21:22 Questioning Traditional Views

23:10 Alternate Interpretations Based on Veiling History

24:38 Cultural Significance of Veiling

26:55 Paul's True Intentions

28:54 Implications for Women in the Church

34:51 Order in Worship Services

37:17 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Guest Bio 

Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall is associate professor of New Testament and has been at McMaster Divinity College since 2005, teaching courses in New Testament with a specialization in the book of Hebrews, Greek exegesis, biblical interpretation, intertextuality, women in ministry, biblical social justice and welcoming the other, courses which are devoted to a commitment to transformation by God’s word through its application to all aspects of life and ministry. Dr. Westfall has a constellation of research interests that are focused on issues concerned with the New Testament and its interpretation with contemporary methodologies and its translation. She places a special focus on texts and issues that have been traditionally overlooked. She has a priority of mentoring academic and professional students as well as others. Her ministry experience includes campus ministry, ministry to the urban community, support of the immigrant community in the US and Canada and the support of women pursuing God’s call on their lives.

She currently serves on the board of Canadian Baptist Missions (CBM). She has served as chair of the board of Wentworth Baptist Church in Hamilton, ON, and continues to serve the church is various ways including preaching, consulting and serving as a delegate as well as speaking and teaching in the churches, organizations and assembly of the Canadian Baptists of Ontario and Quebec (CBOQ).

Dr. Cynthia Long Westfall is professor of New Testament at McMaster Divinity College in Canada. 

Resources by Dr. Westfall

Cynthia Long Westfall. Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle’s Vision for Men and Women in Christ (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic). 2016.

Mutuality Matters podcast: Redeeming Paul - Part 1, Redeeming Paul - Part 2

Mutuality Magazine: Difficult Passages in the Bible and How to Understand Them

Priscilla Papers: On Developing a Consistent Hermeneutical Approach to the Application of General Scriptures

CBE International Conference Audios:

Paul and Gender: Highlights and Bombshells

The Symbol of the Veil in the Ancient Near East and Today: Subjugation or Honor - Part 1

The Symbol of the Veil in the Ancient Near East and Today: Subjugation or Honor? Part 2

In Church or at Home? What is 1 Timothy 2:8-15 Really About?

Answering Those Who Ask: Moving from Defense to a Breakthrough

Relevant Resources

Roy Ciampa was mentioned in the interview explaining the educational level of women in the New Testament Church his podcast interview with Dr. Mimi Hadad in Women and Words: Marriage in the Greco-Roman World in Translation with Dr. Rogy Ciampa

Dr. Westfall references Kenneth Baily’s book about women in the Middle East. See Cynthia Long Westfall’s review of his book: Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes

Veil Bound or Veiled Beauty? By Kay Blevins Calabrese

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Todd and Tara Korpi sit down with Dr. Camden Morgante to discuss her new book, Recovering from Purity Culture. The conversation explores the impact of purity culture on both men and women, the myths propagated by purity teachings, and practical steps for healing and recovery. Dr. Morgante shares her personal journey and professional insights as a psychologist, offering valuable guidance for individuals and couples striving for a healthier understanding of sexuality and spirituality.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:19 Welcome and Guest Introduction

01:13 Dr. Camden Morgante's Background

13:41 Impact on Women Raised in Purity Culture

16:55 Support CBE International

17:23 Impact on Men Raised in Purity Culture

24:41 Techniques for Healing from Shame-Based Sexuality

27:03 Purity Culture's Impact on Church Leadership

Bio

Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed psychologist with nearly 15 years of experience as a therapist and college professor. She owns a private therapy practice focusing on women’s issues, relationships, sexuality, trauma, and spirituality, and is a frequent speaker. Dr. Camden’s mission is to help Christians heal their faith from toxic beliefs. She is the author of Recovering from Purity Culture. Dr. Camden lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with her husband and their daughter and son.

• Recovering From Purity Culture
• Visit www.drcamden.com
• Follow Camden Morgante on Facebook and Instagram

Related Resources
5 Purity Culture Myths and Why They Are False Promises
My Body Kept Score: What Purity Culture Didn’t Know about Trauma

7 Lies That Purity Culture Teaches Women

Promises, Promises: Questioning the Protection of Purity Culture

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad and Dr. Hélène Dallaire engage in a rich discussion on women's roles in biblical scholarship, the challenges faced in male-dominated fields, the impact of flawed Bible translations on women, and the crucial need for translating Scripture accurately to empower women. They explore stories of women overcoming barriers, the significance of mentoring in leadership, and the broader cultural implications of hierarchical teachings.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:02 Breaking Gender Norms in Academia

01:28 Impact of Bible Translations on Women

05:06 The Role of Faith Communities in Addressing Abuse

05:52 Reinterpreting “Helper” in Genesis

11:08 Challenges and Progress for Women in Ministry

18:23 Mentorship and Leadership Development

25:23 Future of Bible Translation and Women's Roles

29:51 Concluding Thoughts and Encouragement

33:01 Closing Remarks and Farewell

Dr. Hélène Dallaire earned a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies at Hebrew Union College. At Denver Seminary, Hélène is the Earl S. Kalland Professor OT and Semitic Languages and chairs the OT Department. She has served as Associate Pastor at Word Faith Christian Center in Vancouver and Oakville Canada. Hélène has published widely, with titles such as:

• The Baker Illustrated Study Bible
• Apollos OT Commentary Series by IVP

Dr. Dallaire has published articles and chapters in:

• “Gender Issues and the Role of Women in Joshua,” In Formation and Interpretation of Old Testament Literature. Leiden, Brill
• “Women: Let’s Use Our Voices – Psalm 68:12;” “Daughter of Zion/Jerusalem – Zephaniah 3:14-17;” and “A Woman in a Basket – Zechariah 5,” in Every Woman’s Bible, Tyndale; A review of
• Carol Meyer’s, Rediscovering Eve: Ancient Israelite Women in Context (Oxford) in the Journal of the Evangelical Study of the Old Testament
• “Women in the OT: A Legacy to Build On” for Denver Seminary’s Engage Magazine.

Hélène teaches courses on Women in the Old Testament, the Ancient Near East, and Women’s Leadership for the Association of Theological Schools, and with a CBE chapter locally. She serves on the board of the CBE Denver Chapter. Hélène received a 2024 CBE Lifetime Achievement Award.

Related Resources

An Update on CBE’s Translation Project

Words Matter: How a Corrected Translation Transformed a Community

Correcting Caricatures: Women and Bible Translation

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by Dr. Joy Qualls, professor at Biola University and author of God Forgive us for Being Women, to discuss the barriers women face in egalitarian settings to fully walking out their call.

Guest Bio

Joy Qualls is a nationally recognized writer and speaker.  Joy currently serves as an Associate Professor of Communication Studies and Associate Dean in the Division of Communication at Biola University. Joy writes and speaks on effective communication, leadership, and who we are as images bearers of Christ.  Joy has a passion for the local church and serving the body of Christ through teaching and consultation.  Joy is married to Kevin (a Licensed Professional Counselor) and together they teach on healthy relationships including marriage and parenting.  They are parents to Blakeley and Soren.

Joy is the author of “God Forgive Us For Being Women: Rhetoric, Theology and the Pentecostal Tradition” (Wipf and Stock, 2018) and is featured in several publications including Influence Magazine, The Table, and Biola Magazine as well as an author in several edited volumes.  Joy has been the featured speaker for local church services and events as well as a sought after as a conference speaker and communication consultant.

Follow Joy Qualls on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook

Related Resources

• God Forgive us for Being Women
• New Voices: Pastors’ Wives and Medieval Religion with Dr. Beth Allison Barr
• Uncovering and Dismantling Barriers for Women Pastors
• Resolving Five Complementarian Protests to Priscilla the Pastor-Teacher

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, “Women and Words: Bible Translation and Why it Matters,” Dr. Helene Dallaire, who holds a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies and serves as the Earl S. Callen Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages at Denver Seminary. This episode touches on the most mistranslated verse in Scripture, prophetesses in the Old and New Testament, Genesis 1 and 2, and more!

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

01:00 Biblical Texts and Women's Roles

02:44 Cultural Context and Scripture

06:21 Ethical Systems in the Bible

09:52 Women in Biblical History

11:27 Translation Issues and Gender

15:22 Prophets and Prophetesses

28:04 Biblical Equality in Creation

35:59 Conclusion and Resources

Guest Bio
Dr. Hélène Dallaire is our guest today. Hélène earned a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies at Hebrew Union College. At Denver Seminary, Hélène is the Earl S. Kalland Professor OT and Semitic Languages and chairs the OT Department. She has served as Associate Pastor at Word Faith Christian Center in Vancouver and Oakville Canada. Hélène has published widely, with titles such as:

The Baker Illustrated Study Bible

Apollos OT Commentary Series by IVP

Dr. Dallaire has published articles and chapters in:

“Gender Issues and the Role of Women in Joshua,” In Formation and Interpretation of Old Testament Literature. Leiden, Brill

“Women: Let’s Use Our Voices - Psalm 68:12;” “Daughter of Zion/Jerusalem – Zephaniah 3:14-17;” and “A Woman in a Basket – Zechariah 5,” in Every Woman’s Bible, Tyndale

A review of Carol Meyer’s, Rediscovering Eve: Ancient Israelite Women in Context (Oxford) in the Journal of the Evangelical Study of the Old Testament

“Women in the OT: A Legacy to Build On” for Denver Seminary’s Engage

Magazine

Hélène teaches courses on Women in the Old Testament, the Ancient Near East, and Women’s Leadership for the Association of Theological Schools, and with a CBE chapter locally. She serves on the board of the CBE Denver Chapter. Hélène received a 2024 CBE Lifetime Achievement Award.

Related Resources

Presumption, Bias, and Gender Accuracy in Bible Translation

A Familiar Picture: An Update on CBE's Translation Project

The Central Role of Old Testament Prophetesses with Hélène Dallaire

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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What could it look like to build an egalitarian culture in our churches and organizations? In this episode, Rev. Lisa Johnson, executive director of leadership formation for the ECO denomination, joins Layla and Rob to discuss culture change through proactively inviting women into leadership, doggedly pursuing the 30 percent rule, and being intentional about representation. Beyond her many practical exhortations, listeners will be compelled by Lisa’s description of a culture marked by God’s “irresistible vision” for women and men partnering together in ministry.

Guest Bio

“Rev. Lisa Johnson grew up in Orange County, CA and received her BA in Communication Studies at Westmont College. She received her MDiv at Princeton Seminary and was ordained in 1999. She has ministered at five different churches in New Jersey, Santa Barbara, Orange County, and San Diego as an associate pastor. She now serves as the Executive Director of Leadership Formation for ECO and the Director of Mentored Ministry for FIT. Lisa has a passion for teaching, discipleship, leadership development, and spiritual formation, and loves serving ECO churches in this capacity. She lives in San Diego (Coronado), CA with her husband and has two young adult children, Ellie and Luke.” See more at https://eco-pres.org/staff.

Mentioned in this episode: Better Together: How Women and Men Can Heal the Divide and Work Together to Transform the Future

Related Resources

Video: Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive

Complementarianism Exists in Egalitarian Organizations and Churches Because of Patriarchy

Retreating from Retreats: An Egalitarian Vision for Church Conferences

Seven Egalitarian Leaders Reflect on the Movement’s Past, Present, and Future

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by Amy and Rob Dixon who have co-authored the children’s book Penny Preaches and joined us to discuss their book and raising children to empower women.

Guest Bios

Amy Dixon is the author of three picture books––Maurice the Unbeastly, Sophie’s Animal Parade, and Marathon Mouse––as well as a middle-grade novel. When she’s not writing, she is editing and marketing other people’s books. She writes from her home in Clovis, California, where she lives on a steady diet of popcorn and coffee.

Rob Dixon is the author of Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships. In addition to serving on InterVarsity staff for more than twenty-six years, Rob teaches at Fuller Theological Seminary and Fresno Pacific University. In his free time, Rob enjoys pickleball, long runs, and cheering for the LA Dodgers.

Related Resources

• Penny Preaches
• Side by Side theme of the Mutuality Matters podcast with Rob Dixon and Layla Van Gerpen
• The First Woman Who Preached to You
• “It’s a Shame You’re a Girl”: Becoming the Sort of Woman Who Wants to Preach
• Mutuality Matters: Why Didn’t God Make Me a Boy so I Could be a Preacher?

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Mimi Haddad and Kim Dickson interview Dr. Salim Munayer about his work on reconciliation in the Holy Lands. During the first half of the interview, he describes the steps involved in difficult reconciliations. In the second half of the interview, he discusses Jesus’s counter-cultural inclusion of women and their necessary inclusion in creating a lasting peace in the world.

Guest Bio
Salim J. Munayer is executive director and founder of Musalaha Ministry of Reconciliation, which has been bringing Israelis and Palestinian together since 1990 and creating a forum for reconciliation. Salim is a Palestinian-Israeli born in Lod as one of six children and received his BA from Tel Aviv University in History and Geography, his MA from Fuller Theological Seminary, graduate studies in New Testament from Pepperdine University and his PhD from the Oxford Center of Mission Studies in the UK. His doctoral dissertation was written on “The Ethnic Identity of Palestinian Arab Christian Adolescents in Israel.” He has published several books on reconciliation, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and Christians in Israel and the Palestinian authority, his most recent work is Through My Enemy’s Eyes: Envisioning Reconciliation in Israel-Palestine, co-authored with Lisa Loden. Salim served as academic dean of the Bethlehem Bible College from 1989 to 2008 and is a professor at the college. He is also an adjunct professor at Fuller Theological Seminary and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Salim is married to Kay, founder of the Daylight Project, a charity that advocates for social justice among the marginalized in Palestinian and Israeli society. She is also a contributing writer on Another’s Voice, a blog by women providing hopeful perspectives in the midst of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Together they have four adult sons, Jack, Daniel, John, and Sam.

Other Resources

Dr. Salim Munayer began Musalaha: A Vision of Reconciliation

Erica Chenoweth was referenced in this interview. Foreign Policy has recognized Chenoweth as one of the top scholars addressing nonviolent resistance and wrote: Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict.

To learn more about Christianity in the Holy Lands listen to the Mutuality Matters Global Impact Interview with Grace Al-Zoughbi

Like Dr. Munayer describing seeing his own struggles in scripture, read Grace Al-Zoughbi’s Mutuality article: God's Surprising Hesed: Reading Ruth as a Palestinian Woman

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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In this episode, Dr. Hélène Dallaire joins the discussion on biblical translation biases and the importance of accurately reflecting women in Scripture. The conversation covers how English readers can detect biases, the significance of diverse translation teams, and the dangers of relying on one translation alone. Dr. Dallaire emphasizes the need for critical examination of key passages on women, men, and marriage, advocating for interpretations that reflect women’s biblical equality. She shares insights from her course material about women in the ancient Near East to deepen understanding of biblical women. The episode encourages listeners to use multiple translations and engage with egalitarian resources to enhance their comprehension of Scripture.

Guest Bio
Dr. Hélène Dallaire is our guest today. Hélène earned a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies at Hebrew Union College. At Denver Seminary, Hélène is the Earl S. Kalland Professor OT and Semitic Languages and chairs the OT Department. She has served as Associate Pastor at Word Faith Christian Center in Vancouver and Oakville Canada. Hélène has published widely, with titles such as:

• The Baker Illustrated Study Bible
• Apollos OT Commentary Series by IVP
• Dr. Dallaire has published articles and chapters in:
• “Gender Issues and the Role of Women in Joshua,” In Formation and Interpretation of Old Testament Literature. Leiden, Brill
• “Women: Let’s Use Our Voices - Psalm 68:12;” “Daughter of Zion/Jerusalem – Zephaniah 3:14-17;” and “A Woman in a Basket – Zechariah 5,” in Every Woman’s Bible, Tyndale
• A review of Carol Meyer’s, Rediscovering Eve: Ancient Israelite Women in Context (Oxford) in the Journal of the Evangelical Study of the Old Testament
• “Women in the OT: A Legacy to Build On” for Denver Seminary’s Engage Magazine

Hélène teaches courses on Women in the Old Testament, the Ancient Near East, and Women’s Leadership for the Association of Theological Schools, and with a CBE chapter locally. She serves on the board of the CBE Denver Chapter. Hélène received a 2024 CBE Lifetime Achievement Award.

Related Resources

Presumption and Bias in Bible Translation
Why We Need to Correct for Patriarchal Bias in Bible Translations
Women and Words: Translation Bias and How to Read the Bible Well with Dr. Roy Ciampa

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Christy Mesaros-Winckles traces women’s ordination and leadership in the Free Methodist Church. Highlighting three women evangelists, and a key ally in their efforts to attain ordination, Mesaros-Winckles traces shift of the Free Methodist Church from very inclusive to exclusive. Mesaros-Winckles speaks to the power of the messages people absorbed as society shifted, specifically in the context of a strong anti-suffragist movement. These messages slowed the egalitarian movement, silencing women and ordination until 1974.

Bio 

Dr. Christy Mesaros-Winckles is an associate professor in the Communication Arts & Sciences Department at Adrian College. She has a doctorate degree in Communication Studies from Bowling Green State University and is a two-time graduate of Spring Arbor University, where she completed both her Bachelor of Arts in communication and her Master of Arts in communication studies/professional writing. The author of several academic book chapters and peer-reviewed research articles, she strives to make her research accessible to a wider audience through her blog Free Methodist Feminist.

Resources Referenced

Silenced: The Forgotten Story of Progressive Era Free Methodist Women by Christy Mesaros-Winckles

Ordaining Women (1893) by Benjamin Titus Roberts

Book Review by Kimberly Dickson: "Silenced: The Forgotten Story of Progressive Era Free Methodist Women," Priscilla Papers, Summer 2024.

Related Resources from CBE
Video: Silence, Women, and the Church with Aida Besancon Spencer (Spanish)
Book Review: Voices Long Silenced: Women Biblical Interpreters through the Centuries Complicity and Silence: How Lament Could Lead Us Toward a Better Place

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by the Rev. Dr. Heather Matthews, program manager for the Doctor of Ministry program at Wheaton College Graduate School and author of Confronting Sexism in the Church to talk about a theology of antisexism and creating environments where women and men lead in interdependence and mutuality.

Bios:

The Rev. Dr. Heather Matthews is the Doctor of Ministry program manager at Wheaton College Graduate School. Dr. Matthews has also worked as a pastor, church planter, non-profit leader, and global worker for over twenty years.

Heather has a DMin from Fuller Seminary, an MA in Educational Ministry and an MA in Counseling Ministry from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, and a BS in Biomedical Engineering from Northwestern University in Evanston, IL.

Heather’s area of expertise is women in church leadership. She is the author of Confronting Sexism in the Church: How We Got Here and What We Can Do About It (IVP 2024).

Heather’s broad range of personal and professional experience allows her to teach and consult on topics including abuse and trauma; gender and sexuality; healthy Christian leadership; church planting and pastoral ministry; marriage and divorce; betrayal and pornography; social and racial justice issues, cross-cultural issues, and local and global mission.

Heather has four children and lives in the Chicago suburbs.

Resources by Dr. Heather Matthews:

Confronting Sexism in the Church

Heathermatthews.com

Related CBE Resources:

The Perfect Storm: Recovering from Shipwreck in Structural Sexism
The Pink Mic: A Token of Sexism in Churches

Groanings of a New Creation: Racism and Sexism in the World Church

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, “Women in Words: Bible Translation and Why it Matters,” Dr. Helene Dallaire, who holds a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies and serves as the Earl S. Callen Professor of Old Testament and Semitic Languages at Denver Seminary, shares insights on the complexities of Bible translation, the importance of cultural sensitivity, and women in biblical scholarship. She highlights examples from her work in Israel, the Philippines, and with various Bible translation organizations, and emphasizes the need for diverse perspectives in translation teams to avoid biases and achieve accurate translations. The episode touches on the universality of biblical messages and the unique challenges faced by women in different cultural contexts.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:40 Introducing Dr. Hélène Dallaire

02:37 Hélène's Journey into Bible Translation

07:30 Experiences in Bible Translation

19:48 Complexities and Challenges in Translation

27:13 Addressing Bias in Bible Translation

Guest Bio
Dr. Hélène Dallaire is our guest today. Hélène earned a PhD in Hebraic and Cognate Studies at Hebrew Union College. At Denver Seminary, Hélène is the Earl S. Kalland Professor OT and Semitic Languages and chairs the OT Department. She has served as Associate Pastor at Word Faith Christian Center in Vancouver and Oakville Canada. Hélène has published widely, with titles such as:

• The Baker Illustrated Study Bible
• Apollos OT Commentary Series by IVP
• Dr. Dallaire has published articles and chapters in:
• “Gender Issues and the Role of Women in Joshua,” In Formation and Interpretation of Old Testament Literature. Leiden, Brill
• “Women: Let’s Use Our Voices - Psalm 68:12;” “Daughter of Zion/Jerusalem – Zephaniah 3:14-17;” and “A Woman in a Basket – Zechariah 5,” in Every Woman’s Bible, Tyndale
• A review of Carol Meyer’s, Rediscovering Eve: Ancient Israelite Women in Context (Oxford) in the Journal of the Evangelical Study of the Old Testament
• “Women in the OT: A Legacy to Build On” for Denver Seminary’s Engage Magazine

Hélène teaches courses on Women in the Old Testament, the Ancient Near East, and Women’s Leadership for the Association of Theological Schools, and with a CBE chapter locally. She serves on the board of the CBE Denver Chapter. Hélène received a 2024 CBE Lifetime Achievement Award.

Related Resources

Presumption and Bias in Bible Translation
Why We Need to Correct for Patriarchal Bias in Bible Translations
Women and Words: Translation Bias and How to Read the Bible Well with Dr. Roy Ciampa

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This episode is a part of the Home, Church, and World theme of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this episode we discuss dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society. We’re joined by Dr. Mark Chironna, who is a Pentecostal bishop, semiotician, and founding pastor of Church on the Living Edge in Longwood, Florida. Dr. Mark Chironna describes how the church is strengthened as a result of women and men leading in mutuality rather than headship.

00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters

00:31 Introduction to Headship Theology

01:06 Interview with Dr. Mark Sharona

02:01 Debunking Headship Theology

02:36 Historical and Cultural Context

07:03 Women in Ministry: Personal Experiences

09:44 The Role of Women in Church History

13:17 Theological Reflections on Women’s Biblical Equality

26:48 Practical Steps for Church Leadership

30:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Bios: [Source]

Mark Chironna serves as a bishop in the International Communion of Charismatic Churches, and the presiding bishop of a network of related pastors and churches, as well as the founder and bishop protector of the Order of St. Maximus, a religious order in the tradition of the many orders that have existed in church history. He has pioneered local churches in Raleigh, North Carolina, as well as Longwood, Florida, where he currently serves as overseer of the Church on the Living Edge. 

He has been involved in the proclamation of the Gospel for almost five decades now, internationally. His academic training includes an undergraduate degree in Music Education and Performance, while minoring in Religion from Wagner University; a Master of Arts in Psychology from Saybrook University; a Doctor of Ministry in Applied Semiotics and Futures Studies from George Fox University; and a Doctor of Philosophy in Pentecostal Theology from University of Birmingham, UK. In addition, he is a board certified coach with over 20,000 hours of coaching and coach-mentoring experience, spanning almost three decades.

Follow Mark on X or Facebook.

Read Mark’s latest book On the Edge of Hope.

Related Resources

Pentecostal Women Leaders: The Interplay of Egalitarian Theology, Feminism, and Pentecostalism

Headship Madness: An Introduction to “Headship” (Part 1)
Home, Church, and World: What is Headship Theology? Part 1 with Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams
Home, Church, and World: What is Headship Theology? Part 2 with Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters the discussion focuses on how Bible translation can impact understanding and implementation of biblical equality. The episode explores the complexities translators face working with Hebrew, Greek, and other languages, and the importance of context in interpreting passages that have historically been used to limit women's roles. It highlights the need for study Bibles that provide contextual notes and alternative interpretations to promote humanizing and empowering readings of the Bible. The guest speaker emphasizes the role of cultural understanding and interactive Bible studies in uncovering deeper nuances in Scripture. 00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters00:27 Journey to Bible Translation Expertise02:29 Challenges in Translating Biblical Texts07:20 Supporting Women's Leadership Through Scripture13:27 Impact of Failed Bible Translations20:33 The Role of Women in Bible Study and Translation24:23 Future of Bible Translations and Women's Biblical Equality27:49 Concluding Thoughts on Bible Translation and Equality Guest BioRev. Dr. Marlon Winedt, a theologian, philosopher, and Bible translator, earned his BA in Theology/Philosophy from the University of Steubenville, Ohio (magna cum laude 1985) and his Drs-MA in Philosophy (cum laude) from the University of Tilburg (1988). He completed post-graduate work in Bible translation and linguistics (1996, 2001), earning a PhD in Bible Translation (1999), all at the Free University of Amsterdam. Engaged in Bible translation for 35 years, he contributed to the Common Language Papiamentu Bible and serves as a Bible Translation Consultant for the United Bible Societies, mentoring teams across the Caribbean and the Americas. He also trains translation consultants worldwide. Marlon, a pastor, radio host, and columnist, contributes to academic and popular discourse in various languages, with his fields of interests being, among others, biblical languages, Greco-Roman world, Performance Criticism and Creolistics. He resides with his wife Sandra on Curaçao, engaging in diverse international teaching roles. The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Kim Dickson talks with Dr. Nijay Gupta about the New Testament women he highlights in his Book Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church. Women who are little known to the average contemporary Christian come alive as Nijay discusses the world in which these remarkable women lived, served, and suffered on behalf of Jesus. Nijay describes the importance of letter carriers in the Roman world and the significance of Paul choosing Phoebe for this important work. He also discusses the translation and theological issues that hid Junia’s apostleship as a woman.

Bio 

Dr. Nijay K. Gupta is professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. He has written or edited over twenty books including A Beginner's Guide to New Testament Studies, Paul and the Language of Faith, and the award-winning and bestselling Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church. Gupta is also co-editor of the Dictionary of Paul and His Letters, and he is a senior translator for the New Living Translation. 

Related Resources:

Find Nijay Gupta at his blog.

Resources mentioned in Interview

Nijay Gupta, Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and MInistered in the Early Church, (Downers Grove, Il: IVP Academic, 2023).

Paul and First-Century Letter Writing: Secretaries, Composition and Collection Paperback – October 22, 2004 by E. Randolph Richards

More CBE Resources with Nijay Gupta

Book Review: Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church by Brianna Cortez

Mutuality Matters podcast: New Voices: Women and Authority in the Early Church with Dr. Nijay Gupta

Galilee's Got Talent: How the Arts Empower Women

Teach us, Mary: The Authority of Women Teachers in the Church in Light of the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55)

Mutuality Blog/Magazine: Why Deborah Makes All the Difference

Learn more about women in scripture and Christian history at ministrywomen.org.

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests that do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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This episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology—dynamics of power, authority, and gender, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by Petra and Garry Scott, leaders of the ministry The Road to Jerusalem. In this episode they discuss headship in ministry and marriage, as well as navigating the complexities of headship theology as African American leaders.

Bios: [Source]

Petra Scott, President and CEO of The Road to Jerusalem: Petra Scott embraced her call to exposing the body of believers to the significance of One New Humanity in 2004. She experienced a deep revelation of the significance of the Jewish Culture of Jesus and how understanding this can enhance the faith expression of believers. She believes that demonstrations between Jews & Gentiles can change homes, communities, and the WORLD.

Petra has experience in both the private and public sectors as a teacher, life coach, pastor, and consultant. She desires to see the philanthropic side of TRTJ flourish too something that will impact the kingdom. In addition to her passion for ministry Petra is a wife and mom, she has three children Darius, Devorah, and Isaac. She is the author of Intimacy: Unlearning Religion, Embracing God.

Garry Scott, VP of Community Engagement of The Road to Jerusalem: Garry Scott has a passion and call to those who have been forgotten in society. He knows what it’s like to grow up in poverty and become a causality of the streets. Garry has devoted his life to helping those who are hard to reach and outcasted. In addition to his work with The Road to Jerusalem he works as a Northside Community Center Coordinator in Jacksonville, FL. His desire is to see lives transformed and violence cease at the Lord’s Table.

Related Resources:

Intersectionality: Messages of Hope: Preaching and Mental Health in the Black Church with Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson

Celebrating Black Women Leaders in Church and Society

Mrs. Coretta Scott King: The Enduring Legacy of a Black Woman Leader

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Rev. Dr. Marlon Winedt shows how the biblical narratives often oppose oppressive cultural practices. Examples include Mary and Mary who are portrayed as disciples. Jesus does not scold them for sitting at his feet versus feeding the disciples. Further, throughout Scripture, women are often subjects and not objects of leadership and discipleship. Consider Priscilla and Aquila, cited 6 times in the NT—texts in which Priscilla precedes her husband 4 of the 6 references according to the earliest, most reliable manuscripts. Later translations were altered in accommodating to patriarchal expectations by moving Aquila ahead of Priscilla.

Other places that minimize women’s agency and voice include the preponderance of masculine pronouns and words like “brother.” In such cases it’s important to observe not only inconsistencies but also patterns that demean women like using feminine words to align women with negative qualities whereas masculine language represents positive characteristics. Or when Paul tells us we are all adopted as “sons,” which is legal language. Even so, translations work to preserve the legal notion that salvation is universal which always includes women. Other examples include words used to accurately translate Eve as ezer, meaning a worthy, strong partner versus a lowly assistant, a subordinate or subservient helper… making clear that ezer is most often used for God’s rescue!

Marlon also considered the significant calling women had as church planters and as custodians of language, culture, and faith. In his region—the Caribbean—women led missionary activity—a leadership often not permitted in their northern context. In the Caribbean, the culture is also more pragmatic and women enjoy many roles denied them in the north. What is more, in the Caribbean, the narratives of Scripture have far greater weight than proclamation texts, here again elevating women often included in the narratives of the Bible.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:38 Meet Marlon Winedt: Scholar and Translator

02:24 Exploring Biblical Women and Cultural Contexts

06:07 Translation Challenges and Gender Bias

10:09 The Importance of Inclusive Language

16:21 CBE Conference and Translation Efforts

21:06 Global Perspectives on Women in Leadership

28:51 Concluding Thoughts and Future Episodes

Bio

Rev. Dr. Marlon Winedt, a theologian, philosopher, and Bible translator, earned his BA in Theology/Philosophy from the University of Steubenville, Ohio (magna cum laude 1985) and his Drs-MA in Philosophy (cum laude) from the University of Tilburg (1988). He completed post-graduate work in Bible translation and linguistics (1996, 2001), earning a PhD in Bible Translation (1999), all at the Free University of Amsterdam. Engaged in Bible translation for 35 years, he contributed to the Common Language Papiamentu Bible and serves as a Bible Translation Consultant for the United Bible Societies, mentoring teams across the Caribbean and the Americas. He also trains translation consultants worldwide. Marlon, a pastor, radio host, and columnist, contributes to academic and popular discourse in various languages, with his fields of interests being, among others, biblical languages, Greco-Roman world, Performance Criticism and Creolistics. He resides with his wife Sandra on Curaçao, engaging in diverse international teaching roles.

Related Resources

Unveiling Old Testament Women with Accurate Translation

She’s Not a Whore: Pejorative Language and Translation Bias in Ezekiel 16

Vindicating the Vixens: How We View Bible Women Shapes Our Response to #MeToo

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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What could it look like for leaders to help their people embrace and embody a robust egalitarian conviction? “Emerging egalitarian” Dr. Jeff Liou, InterVarsity’s National Director of Theological Formation, joins Layla and Rob to reflect on his own journey with egalitarianism, and he offers a compelling picture of a theological formation process marked by humility, curiosity, deep community, and thoughtful encounters with difference.

00:00 Introduction

00:54 Guest Introduction: Jeff Liou's Background

05:17 Discussion on Egalitarian Theological Formation

15:18 Practical Advice for Egalitarian Leadership

22:03 Final Thoughts and Resources

Bio

Dr. Jeff Ming Liou is the National Director of Theological Formation for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA. He is also an affiliate assistant professor of Christian ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, CA, where he received his Ph.D. in Theology and Culture.  Jeff co-authored a book with Robert Chao Romero called Christianity and Critical Race Theory. Additionally, Liou has written papers on race and justice, Asian American Christianity, theological ethics, and political theology. Ordained in the Christian Reformed Church of North America, Liou has served as a campus minister, pastor, and university chaplain. 

Related Resources

Jeff’s podcast.

Jeff’s book.

Jeff references the four quadrant quiz he created, click here to take. The quiz will ask for your email, but promises to not use it to contact you.

8 Ways The Church Can Advance Egalitarian Theology
Does Egalitarian Theology Have Anything To Say To People of Color?

Becoming Egalitarian: Reconciling Experience with Scripture

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Tara and Todd Korpi welcome Pastors Mark and Michelle Benson, co-lead pastors from Dothan Assembly in Alabama. Mark and Michelle share their journey of co-pastoring, highlighting the biblical call for gender equality in leadership. They discuss the challenges and growth experienced in their ministry, the importance of recognizing each other's strengths, and navigating environments resistant to female leadership. The episode emphasizes the significance of knowing one’s calling, maintaining humility, and fostering strong, supportive relationships in ministry. Listeners also gain insights on how co-leadership can positively influence church culture and leadership practices.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:24 Hosts' Banter and Jingle Discussion

01:36 Introducing Special Guests: Mark and Michelle Benson

03:37 Journey to Co-Pastoring

08:58 Challenges and Triumphs in Ministry

13:17 Navigating Co-Leadership

31:33 Encouragement for Listeners

33:50 Conclusion and Resources

Bios
Pastors Mark and Michele have been lead pastors of Dothan First Assembly of God since 2016 after serving at The Rock Family Worship Center based out of Huntsville, Alabama for over ten years. Their passion is to make a difference in the lives of others by showing them the love of Jesus Christ. Pastors Mark and Michele have three children; Taylor, Griffin, and Camryn.

Related Resources

Women and Men Leading Together: Co-Pastoring While Married
Women and Men Leading Together: “Exchanging a Muzzle for a Microphone” with Rici and Phil Skei
How to Find a Church that Empowers Women

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, host Mimi Haddad welcomes Dr. Marlon Winedt, a seasoned Bible translator, theologian, and philosopher. Dr. Winedt shares his vast experience in Bible translation, particularly his work with the Common Language Papiamintu Bible and assisting translation teams across the Caribbean and the Americas. He discusses the joys of translating the Bible into local languages, enhancing their prestige and accessibility. Dr. Winedt also delves into the complexities and cultural nuances involved in translation, the ethical responsibilities of translators, and how new translations can influence the understanding and application of biblical texts, especially regarding topics like women's roles and intercultural communication within the church and society.

00:00 Introduction to Mutuality Matters

00:25 Meet Dr. Marlon Winedt

01:54 The Joys of Bible Translation

03:50 Challenges in Translation

07:41 Cultural Misunderstandings

10:53 Translation Choices and Their Impact

15:59 Addressing Bias in Translations

22:24 Ensuring Clarity and Overcoming Bias

30:07 Rediscovering Women's Stories in History

30:52 Exploring Bible Translations

32:23 The Complexity of Translation

37:03 Monolingualism vs. Multilingualism

42:38 Translation and Gender Issues

47:39 Insights on Women in Scripture

52:27 Marriage and Family in Translation

57:03 Conclusion

Bio

Rev. Dr. Marlon Winedt, a theologian, philosopher, and Bible translator, earned his BA in Theology/Philosophy from the University of Steubenville, Ohio (magna cum laude 1985) and his Drs-MA in Philosophy (cum laude) from the University of Tilburg (1988). He completed post-graduate work in Bible translation and linguistics (1996, 2001), earning a PhD in Bible Translation (1999), all at the Free University of Amsterdam. Engaged in Bible translation for 35 years, he contributed to the Common Language Papiamentu Bible and serves as a Bible Translation Consultant for the United Bible Societies, mentoring teams across the Caribbean and the Americas. He also trains translation consultants worldwide. Marlon, a pastor, radio host, and columnist, contributes to academic and popular discourse in various languages, with his fields of interests being, among others, biblical languages, Greco-Roman world, Performance Criticism and Creolistics. He resides with his wife Sandra on Curaçao, engaging in diverse international teaching roles.

Related Resources
Women and Words: Exploring Women’s Biblical Equality Through Bible Translation with Dr. Roy Ciampa
Women and Words: Why Are There So Many Bible Translations? With Dr. Jeffrey Miller
eLearning: Beyond Bias: Aligning towards God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This second installment of a two-part episode is a part of a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. We’re joined by Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams, two biblical teachers who have written extensively on women and the church. In this episode, Andrew and Terran discuss the concept of the 'tiebreaker rule' in marriage and argue for a mutualist perspective that emphasizes equal partnership over hierarchy. They talk about Junia as an apostle in Romans 16:7 and dispel common misconceptions about Paul's views on women, underscoring his empowerment of women leaders in the early church.

00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters: Exploring Gender Equality in Leadership

00:34 Debunking the Tiebreaker Rule in Marriage

01:15 Mutualism in Practice: Real-Life Marriage Dynamics

04:21 Scriptural Insights on Mutual Decision-Making

05:05 Junia's Role and Women's Leadership in the Early Church

11:14 Paul's Example: Empowering Women in Ministry

14:32 Final Thoughts: Encouragement for Men and Women in Leadership

19:26 Connecting with the Speakers and Further Resources

20:59 Closing Remarks and Invitation to Support CBE International

Bios

Andrew Bartlett QC is based in London and is a highly rated international arbitrator with a wide range of experience in dispute resolution in numerous locations. He has a BA in Theology (University of Gloucestershire) and has served as an elder and a churchwarden in various churches. He is the author of Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts.

Terran Williams is a seasoned pastor, church planter, and Bible teacher to skeptics and believers alike. He authored Biblica’s Reach4Life youth Bible, with a print of three million copies in 30 languages, What’s so Amazing about Scripture, and How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy.

Related Resources

How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy

Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts

Andrew and Terran’s “Response to Mike Winger”

Terranwilliams.com

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosted by CBE International, Dr. Roy Ciampa discusses the significance of Bible translation and its impact on women worldwide. As a seasoned Bible translator and professor, Dr. Ciampa highlights how translations can shape perceptions of gender roles, stressing the importance of considering cultural contexts to avoid perpetuating patriarchal interpretations. He delves into the challenges of domesticating and foreignizing translations, the misinterpretation of biblical texts regarding women, and how translations might better honor women's roles in biblical texts and today’s context. The episode also explores the influence of English Bible translations globally, particularly concerning women's leadership and addressing abuse. Dr. Ciampa expresses his hope for future translations to more fully recognize women's worth and contributions, in alignment with an egalitarian view of scripture that sees men and women as equal in authority and leadership in all spheres of life.

00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters

00:31 Introducing Dr. Roy Ciampa: A Scholar's Journey

04:17 The Impact of Bible Translation on Gender and Race

08:24 Exploring the Greco-Roman Context of Biblical Texts

15:35 The Challenge of Domesticating and Foreignizing Translations

20:56 Elevating Women's Stories in Scripture and History

33:31 Dreams for Future Bible Translations and Women's Roles

35:08 Closing Thoughts and Resources

Bio
Dr. Ciampa has authored numerous scholarly essays on NT themes, especially on the interpretation of the Old Testament within the New Testament, but also on issues more directly related to Bible translation (including articles that address translation issues in Acts 17:11 and 1 Corinthians 7:1 that became footnotes in the CSB. He is also that author of a book on The Presence and Function of Scripture in Gal 1 and 2, and co-author with Brian Rosner of the Pillar Commentary on 1 Corinthians. Roy is an ordained minister.

Related Resources
Women and Words: Exploring Women’s Biblical Equality Through Bible Translation with Dr. Roy Ciampa
How the New Testament Turned Marriage in the Ancient World on Its “Head”
A Religion of “Women and Children”? A Christian Woman’s Place in the Greco-Roman World Before AD 300

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This two-part episode is the first in a new segment of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by Tara and Todd Korpi. In this segment we discuss headship theology––dynamics of power, authority, and women and men, and how they function in Christian homes, the local church and society as a whole. We’re joined by Andrew Bartlett and Terran Williams, two biblical teachers who have written extensively on women and the church. They provide exceptional insight in this interview, allowing us to establish a strong foundation for understanding what headship theology is and how to think biblically about it.

Bios

Andrew Bartlett KC is based in London and is a highly rated international arbitrator with a wide range of experience in dispute resolution in numerous locations. He has a BA in Theology (University of Gloucestershire) and has served as an elder and a churchwarden in various churches. He is the author of Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts.

Terran Williams is a seasoned pastor, church planter, and Bible teacher to skeptics and believers alike. He authored Biblica’s Reach4Life youth Bible, with a print of three million copies in 30 languages, What’s so Amazing about Scripture, and How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy.

Related Resource

How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy

Men and Women in Christ: Fresh Light From Biblical Texts

Andrew and Terran’s “Response to Mike Winger”

Terranwilliams.com

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This episode begins with news! Layla and Rob’s podcast thread is changing, from a solitary focus on how mixed-gender ministry partnerships work in the field to a wider discussion about how egalitarians can practically engage not just interpersonal dynamics, but systems, theology, culture, and more. And the best guests to talk about this shift? Layla and Rob! Join the hosts as they answer listener-generated questions about podcasting as a medium, what they’ve learned along the way, their own history as partners, and what their hopes are for the church going forward.

00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters: Embracing Egalitarian Convictions

00:46 Shifting Focus: Broadening the Conversation Beyond Ministry Partnerships

01:56 Celebrating Our Journey: A Self-Interview on Mixed Gender Partnerships

05:24 Listener Q&A: Insights and Anecdotes from Behind the Scenes

09:06 Challenges and Opportunities: Learning from Our Podcasting Experience

20:51 Reflecting on Partnership: Our Personal Journey and Future Hopes

28:46 Gratitude and Goodbyes: Wrapping Up the Podcast Thread

Bios:

Layla Van Gerpen has served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship for over twenty years in California and Nevada. She also serves on the preaching team at her church, Midtown Vineyard. She is passionate about developing leaders, especially around areas of race and gender. As a Lebanese/Japanese daughter of immigrants, Layla grew up with a deep love for hospitality, cross-cultural relationships, and advocacy work. Together with her husband, Daniel, they find joy raising their two boys, Everett and Grant.

Rob Dixon lives in central California with his wife Amy and their four children, and works as a campus minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. He earned a Doctor of Intercultural Studies degree at Fuller Theological Seminary, where he focused on discerning the attributes of flourishing mixed-gender ministry partnerships. Rob is the author of Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships. In his free time, Rob roots for the Dodgers, teaches at Fresno Pacific University, and plays as much pickleball as possible. Find him online at drrobdixon.com.

Related Resources:

Women and Men Leading Together: The Value of Shared Partnerships from a Gen. Z Perspective with Tim Bushra

Women and Men Leading Together: “Call Her What She Is” with Maddie Cummings and Brooke Pland

Women and Men Leading Together: The Journey to Mutuality with Kim and Andrew Feil

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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This episode of the Mutuality Matters podcast, hosted by CBE International, features Dr. Roy Ciampa, the S. Lewis and N. W. Armstrong Professor of Religion at Samford University in Birmingham, Alabama. Dr. Ciampa discusses the significance of Bible translation in promoting women’s biblical equality, his background as a missionary, professor, and Bible translator, and the process translation teams undergo to resolve translation challenges. Highlights include the impact of Western translations like the NIV and ESV on global Bible translation, specific New Testament passages supporting women's shared leadership, and common translation issues facing the church today. Dr. Ciampa also addresses translation choices related to female and male relationships in Scripture. The episode emphasizes CBE's mission of advocating for equal authority and leadership of women and men in the home, church, and world through biblical scholarship and translation.

00:00 Welcome to Mutuality Matters

00:31 Introducing Dr. Roy Ciampa: A Renowned Bible Translator

00:54 Dr. Ciampa's Journey in Bible Translation and Scholarship

04:36 The Conservative Nature of Bible Translation

06:46 The Influence of Western Translations on Global Bible Translation Efforts

19:52 Navigating Translation Challenges: From Legal Issues to Cultural Contexts

23:55 Addressing Translation Issues Affecting Women in Scripture

29:41 Exploring Key New Testament Passages on Women's Leadership

41:51 Supporting CBE International and Mutuality Matters

Guest Bio

Dr. Ciampa has authored numerous scholarly essays on NT themes, especially on the interpretation of the Old Testament within the New Testament, but also on issues more directly related to Bible translation (including articles that address translation issues in Acts 17:11 and 1 Corinthians 7:1 that became footnotes in the CSB. He is also that author of a book on The Presence and Function of Scripture in Gal 1 and 2, and co-author with Brian Rosner of the Pillar Commentary on 1 Corinthians. Roy is an ordained minister.

Related Resources

CBE’s eLearning Course: Beyond Bias: Aligning towards God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation

CBE’s Bible Translation Project: Creating Gender-Accurate Bible Translations

Correcting Caricatures: Women and Bible Translation

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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Sit down this week with hosts Angela and Liz as they chat with Rev. Dwayne Jackson. Rev. Jackson shares his expertise about working with the Reformed Church of America and how the stories from his fellow sisters in ministry catapulted his everyday practice of mutuality. He also describes his love for those at the margins and his pastoral position as he pastors alongside his wife as equals. Tune in and hear not only his story but HER story as well!

Guest Bio

Born and raised as a son of the Mott Haven Reformed Church Dwayne Jackson served in the role of deacon then as an elder where he worked with the finance committee, youth ministry, Sunday school, Christian education, choir, and men’s ministry. His educational accomplishments include a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from New York Institute of Technology with a Minor in Computer Science, and a Master of Divinity from New Brunswick Theological Seminary. Dwayne was invited to serve as a Student Pastor of the First Reformed Church of Astoria, following his ordination in January of 2000 he accepted the call to continue as their Minister of Word and Sacrament where he remained until June of 2017.

In the community of Astoria and Long Island City, Queens Rev. Jackson served as the Clergy Liaison for the local police command. His work involves mediation between members of the community and helping them to build a peaceful relationship that will benefit both the local citizens and the patrol officers, where mutual respect is fostered. He provided spiritual guidance and assistance for the members of the Astoria Senior Citizen’s Center and mentoring for young children, teens and young adults at the community center.

Rev. Jackson has been a part of the African American / Black Council in a number of capacities. He served the RCA as the Coordinator of Social Witness and Social Justice and served on the RCA Commission for Women. In 2021 Rev. Jackson was elected into the position of VP of the General Synod of the Reformed Church in America and concluded his service as President from 2022 to 2023

Serving as Co-Pastor of the Second Reformed Church of Hackensack along with the Rev. Anna M. Jackson, Rev. Dwayne Jackson has promised to dedicate his life to preaching and teaching the un-compromised Word of God to all the people of God and making Disciples for Christ.

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Kim Dickson and Amber Burgess interview Dr. Karen H. Jobes about Esther. As a lifetime teaching professor, Dr. Jobes skillfully explains the academic complexities of Esther in a way that brings her listeners along to understand the significance of Esther’s story in the broader canon. She describes how Mordechai’s challenge to Esther that she is in her position “for such a time as this,” causes Esther to come into her own, fulfilling who God had created her to be. Dr. Jobes demonstrates how Mordechai and Esther work in mutuality, both submitting in obedience to one another’s authority. She completes the interview highlighting how the text of Esther demonstrates the scriptural redemptive pattern of bringing life from death.

Bio 

Karen H. Jobes is the Gerald F. Hawthorne Professor Emerita of New Testament Greek and Exegesis at Wheaton College and Graduate School (Illinois).  She earned her doctorate in Biblical Hermeneutics at Westminster Theological Seminary (Philadelphia, 1995) and has served as a tenured professor at Westmont College (Santa Barbara, CA, 1996–2005) and at Wheaton (2005–2015). She was a translator on the NIV Committee for Bible Translation for many years and is the author of several books and many journal articles. Her research specialty has been the Septuagint as a literary and exegetical background for New Testament interpretation. Jobes is a member of Oreland Evangelical Presbyterian Church and serves as an elder on Session there.

Other Resources

Contact Dr. Karen Jobes at karen.jobes@wheaton.edu

Books Referenced in Interview:

Karen H. Jobes, Esther: The NIV Application Commentary from Biblical text . . . to contemporary life.

Karen H. Jobes, The Alpha-Text of Esther: In Character and Relationship to the Masoretic Text, SBL Dissertation Series 153.

Michael V. Fox, Character & Ideology in the Book of Esther: Second Edition with a New Postscript on a Decade of Esther Scholarship.

Summary of Karen Jobes as the first woman Evangelical Theological Society (ETS) woman president in: Making Room for Women: 2023 ETS Annual Meeting Recap by Kimberly Dickson

More CBE Resources on Esther

Women in Scripture and Mission: Esther

More Than a Pretty Face

More Than a Beautiful Body: Star Wars, Beauty Standards, and the Imago Dei
Power Brokers: Vashti, Mordecai, and Esther
Women Leaders Navigate the Patriarchal Systems of Family and Church: Young Lee Hertig
Esther: When God Calls for Disobedience
Character Counts
Calling all Deborah’s, Esther’s and Junias

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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Dr. Ciampa explores the complexity of Bible translation, through his experiences both as a translator and professor of Bible translation, working beside translation teams worldwide. He considers both challenges and opportunities facing translation teams given the limited resources of translators in the majority world in contrast to the wealth of the minority world and its capacity, therefore, to influence translation teams worldwide as they depend on translations produced by the majority world and those widely available to teams/communities without a translation in their mother tongue. Small translation teams depend on larger, well-funded teams in the West and hence their influence worldwide. Bible translations can be (and are) commissioned by individuals who share a particular theological view of male-authority, e.g. the ESV. Other teams rely on consultants who provide an additional layer of oversight and diversity.

As women are now receiving the same education as men, women are joining Bible translation teams and serve as consultants more and more, especially in the majority world. Roy observes that minimizing translation bias was the result not only of diverse translation teams but also accessibility to a variety of translations in one’s mother tongue. Roy also points out “reading” the Bible well plays a critical role in grasping the full thrust of Scripture as a primary means of guarding against translator bias.

Finally, Roy explores how one language, e.g. Portuguese is spoken very differently in various regions around the world. He considers the importance of including more paratextual information explaining the background and significance of many of the passages that have impacted women or that could more positively impact women should be a priority. Increasing the number and roles of women in the translation work would help not only in helping teams pay closer attention to these issues, but also in helping the teams understand how the translation or interpretation of these passages impacts the lived experience of their mothers, sisters, daughters, and other women today, leading to a greater prioritization of this issue.

Guest Bio:
Dr. Roy Ciampa: is the S. Louis and Ann W. Armstrong Professor of Religion and Chair of the Religion Department at Samford University. Roy served the Nida Institute for Biblical for the American Bible Society providing advanced professional development in biblical studies, Bible translation and Scripture engagement to leaders in that area of scholarship worldwide. He also served as Professor of New Testament and chaired the Division of Biblical Studies at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary where he continues to provide leadership for their Doctor of Ministry track in Bible Translation. Before that, Roy was a missionary professor of biblical studies in Portugal and served as a translator for the Portuguese Bible Society’s contemporary Portuguese translation of Scripture.

Dr. Ciampa has authored numerous scholarly essays on NT themes, especially on the interpretation of the Old Testament within the New Testament, but also on issues more directly related to Bible translation (including articles that address translation issues in Acts 17:11 and 1 Corinthians 7:1 that became footnotes in the CSB. He is also that author of a book on The Presence and Function of Scripture in Gal 1 and 2, and co-author with Brian Rosner of the Pillar Commentary on 1 Corinthians. Roy is an ordained minister.

Related Resources:
eLearning: Beyond Bias: Aligning Toward God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation
Why We Need to Correct for Patriarchal Bias in Bible Translations

Presumption and Bias in Bible Translation

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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Listeners are in for a treat as veteran host, Dr. Angela is interviewed by new co-host, Rev. Liz Testa. As Liz got to know Angela and listened to past episodes, she realized the wealth of insight sitting behind the mic that people needed to hear about. You don’t want to miss hearing Angela share how she got involved with CBE (hint, it connects with her doctoral work), what led to the creation of this podcast, and highlights of her most intriguing learnings from her guests along the way. Most importantly, hearing Angela’s vision of intersectionality as part of God’s reconciling work in the world is a true inspiration. You will leave this episode with fresh ideas for creating healthy, compassionate spaces of inclusion and equity in your context... and most likely a desire to go back and relisten to a previous episode or two!

Learn more about Dr. Angela's Streams in the Wasteland mentioned in the podcast at https://www.streamsinthewasteland.org/.

Bios

Rev. Dr. Angela Ravin-Anderson, a native Texan, is an ordained minister with a true passion for seeing the people of God become an authentic expression of God’s love in the world. Dr. Ravin-Anderson created the Streams in the Wasteland Leadership Institute, a training program to equip and prepare transformational Christian leaders, especially women, based on their unique personalities, passions, and spiritual gifts to minister to the marginalized. She is also a facilitator for Project C.U.R.A.T.E., a faith-based initiative to bring about racial reconciliation and social justice reform within the Christian community. Dr. Ravin-Anderson is an adjunct professor at Abilene Christian University within the Bible Department teaching courses in Old and New Testament Studies, Christian Leadership, and Spiritual Formation. At Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church where she serves as part of the clergy team, she gives leadership to the Social Justice ministry and develops curriculum for adult Christian education and discipleship training programs. She holds a BA in Behavioral Science from Rice University, an MBA and MHA from the University of Houston-Clearlake, received her Master of Divinity degree, Summa Cum Laude from Houston Graduate School of Theology, and her Doctor of Ministry in the area of Pastoral and Missional Church Leadership from the same seminary.

Rev. Elizabeth (Liz) Testa, raised bi-culturally in New York and Spain, is a pastor, speaker, creative visionary, and community builder who is passionate about encouraging people to embrace their gifts and usher in a vision of God’s reign as women and men of all backgrounds serve together, freely and fully. She currently serves the Reformed Church in America as the ministry executive for Women’s Transformation and Leadership and Equity-Based Hospitality. In this capacity, she helps the RCA pursue a vision for the full inclusion of women’s gifts, influence, and leadership in all areas of the church and equips faith communities to develop equitable, hospitable practices that build and strengthen the body of Christ for mission in the world. Liz is the founder and host of the Lavish Hope: Stories of Resilience and Overcoming, a podcast that engages fresh perspectives from women and people of color. Rev. Testa holds a BFA (magna cum laude) from Syracuse University, and an MDiv from the Drew Theological School, where she was the John Heston Willey awardee for excellence in Pulpit Oratory and Manner. Her first career was as a professional actress and spokesperson, and she delights at how God uses those experiences to enhance her calling in ministry. Rev. Testa is currently a doctoral student in transformational preaching at New Brunswick Theological Seminary, NJ.

Learn more about Dr. Ravin-Anderson and Rev. Testa’s passions and projects:

Streams in the Wasteland

Project C.U.R.A.T.E.

RCA Women’s Transformation and Leadership and Equity-Based Hospitality

Lavish Hope Podcast

Related Resources

Intersectionality: The Narratives that Shaped Us with New Co-Host Rev. Liz Testa

Intersectionality: Diversity as God’s Design: A Conversation with Rev. Michelle D. Williams – Part One

Intersectionality: Words Matter! Freedom through Lectionary and Bible Translation with Rev. Dr. Wilda C. Gafney

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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Host Dr. Mimi Haddad continues her conversation with Dr. Diphus Chemorion, a member of CBE’s Bible translation Old Testament team. Dr. Chemorion states that the goal of CBE’s Gender Accurate Bible translation (GAB) is accuracy related to the dignity and agency of women and men. The team has worked to elevate what has been downplayed through a clear process of deliberation, reading of needed source material, and prayer. When the team disagrees, even in heated conversations, they agree to and practice a discipline of prayer and sleep after a disagreement, and come together to land on a good decision, trusting the Holy Spirit to lead them. And, the Spirit has done just that. Dr. Chemorion says working with the GAB team is his favorite translation team he has yet to experience.

An expert in Old Testament, Dr. Chemorion explored the translation process and decisions made in texts from Genesis chapters 1-3, Job 2:9, Numbers 7:4, and more.

Guest Bio:

Dr. Diphus Chosefu Chemorion is an ordained Minister of the Reformed Church of East Africa (RCEA). He earned his BA in Social Work from the University of Nairobi and a Bachelor of Divinity from St Paul’s University. He also holds a Master of Theology from Emory University (Candler School of Theology) and a Doctor of Theology from Stellenbosch University in South Africa. Rev. Prof. Chemorion has served as an associate professor of Old Testament and dean of faculty of theology at St. Paul’s University in Limuru, Kenya. He is also the RCEA Synod professor of theology. Dr. Chemorion has been active in CBE as a speaker and Bible translator.

Resources by Dr. Chemorion:

• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is author of Community Participation in Scripture Version Design: An Experiment in Translating Jonah into Sabaot and Introduction to Christian Worldview: Meaning, Origins and Perspectives.
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-editor of Contested Space: Ethnicity and Religion in Kenya
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-author of The Quest for Gender Equity in Leadership, Published by House of Prisca and Aquila
• Human Dignity: Interrogating Biblical and Cultural Perspectives on the Creation Mandate in Genesis 1–3

Works Cited:

• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is author of Community Participation in Scripture Version Design: An Experiment in Translating Jonah into Sabaot and Introduction to Christian Worldview: Meaning, Origins and Perspectives.
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-editor of Contested Space: Ethnicity and Religion in Kenya
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-author of The Quest for Gender Equity in Leadership, Published by House of Prisca and Aquila
• Human Dignity: Interrogating Biblical and Cultural Perspectives on the Creation Mandate in Genesis 1–3

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Pastor Scott Sinner might have “stumbled onto” the idea of mixed-gender ministry partnership, but now he and his colleagues at Green Valley Community Church in Placerville, California, operate out of a place of deep conviction. In this episode, Pastor Sinner and Pastor Bekah Townsend tell Layla and Rob how they live out shared leadership with an emphasis on a clear vision, a foundation of trust, and a commitment to engage one another with vulnerability and grace. Come learn from Scott and Bekah as they tell us how they “pick up the weight together!”

Guest Bios:

Rebekah Townsend

Rebekah Townsend joined the pastor team at Green Valley Community Church in August of 2022. She preaches at weekend services and oversees their Next Gen. ministry. For the last twenty-three years, she served in a variety of ministry roles in many different places, but her passion has been the same. She is dedicated to helping people come to know Jesus. Bekah has been married to her husband Ryan for almost twenty years and they have three amazing kids. They enjoy traveling and going on adventures together as a family.

Scott Sinner

Actively leading and teaching in the church for over thirty-four years, Scott communicates God’s word through an interactive fun, storytelling style. He is passionate about the local church and believes that when it works right, it can change the world. Scott has been married to his wife Kellie for over thirty-four years, they have two beautiful daughters, two great son-in-laws, and one magnificent grandbaby. When not recovering from some injury, Scott enjoys playing basketball and golf. Growing up in the Bay Area has made the Sinner family avid Raider fans — proof that God has a sense of humor.

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Other Resources:
Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships

(Men & Women Leading Together) Creating Safe and Thriving Mixed-Gender Partnerships

Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Communities

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Host Dr. Mimi Haddad meets with Dr. Diphus Chemorion, a member of CBE’s Bible translation Old Testament team. Dr. Diphus Chemorion clearly and methodically describes the process of Bible translation primarily as communication versus theological exposition. The task of translation teams is to aim at biblical clarity in addressing their specific and intended audience. Bible readers can learn more about the translation priorities of each translation team by carefully reading and attending to the preface and footnotes in all Bibles where translation teams disclose their objectives, goals, and intended audience.

Dr. Chemorion states that the goal of CBE’s Gender Accurate Bible translation (GAB) is accuracy related to the dignity and agency of women and men. The team has worked to elevate what has been downplayed through a clear process of deliberation, reading of needed source material, and prayer. When the team disagrees, even in heated conversations, they agree to and practice a discipline of prayer and sleep after a disagreement, and come together to land on a good decision, trusting the Holy Spirit to lead them. And, the Spirit has done just that. Dr. Chemorion says working with the GAB team is his favorite translation team he has yet to experience.

An expert in Old Testament, Dr. Chemorion explored the translation process and decisions made in texts from Genesis 1–3, Job 2:9, Numbers 7:4, and more.

Resources by Dr. Diphus Chemorion:

• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is author of Community Participation in Scripture Version Design: An Experiment in Translating Jonah into Sabaot and Introduction to Christian Worldview: Meaning, Origins and Perspectives.
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-editor of Contested Space: Ethnicity and Religion in Kenya
• Dr. Diphus Chemorion is co-author of The Quest for Gender Equity in Leadership, Published by House of Prisca and Aquila
• Human Dignity: Interrogating Biblical and Cultural Perspectives on the Creation Mandate in Genesis 1–3

Works cited:

• God’s Word to Women, by Katharine Bushnell, MD.
• Other resources on or by Katharine Bushnell, MD can be found at godswordtowomen.org.
• More information on Katharine Bushnell
• Dr. Christiane Nord
• Books by Dr. Christiane Nord

Guest: Dr. Diphus Chosefu Chemorion is an ordained Minister of the Reformed Church of East Africa (RCEA). He earned his BA in Social Work from the University of Nairobi and a Bachelor of Divinity from St Paul’s University. He also holds a Master of Theology from Emory University (Candler School of Theology) and a Doctor of Theology from Stellenbosch University in South Africa. Rev. Prof. Chemorion has served as an associate professor of Old Testament and dean of faculty of theology at St Paul’s University, Limuru- Kenya. He is also the RCEA Synod professor of theology. Dr. Chemorion has been active in CBE as a speaker and Bible translator.

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In this episode, hosts Mimi and Kim discuss CBE’s partnership with Rev. Herbert Mazonde as he works to restore the church to the heart of God with women and men working in partnership and mutuality. The team experienced some technical issues throughout the episode with Rev. Herbert’s audio, but even through the barriers of technology and distance, Rev. Herbert shows just how powerfully God is moving through CBE’s partners in Africa to make a significant impact for women and men, especially regarding gender-based violence and child marriage.

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Guest Bio 

Herbert Mazonde is an ordained senior reverend at Harvest House International Church in Birundu, Zimbabwe. He is an experienced church planter, having planted fourteen churches since 2006. But his true passion is the establishment of healthy marriages to serve as an epicenter of human-development that can transform underpriveleged and downtrodden communities. This passion and interest has led him to counsel marriages in over eighteen countries as well as become founder and director of the Courtship and Marriage Foundation. He is married to Rev. Thando and they have one daughter and two sons.

Other Resources:

Learn more about CBE’s Partners in East Africa: Partnering in Africa - CBE International 

Listen to “A Lie Long Planted: Unearthing the Deep Roots of Gender Based Injustice” by Medad Birungi 

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Deborah Asio who oversees CBE’s East Africa partnerships  

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Emily Onyango to better understand the East African situation for girls and women. 

Listen to Terran Williams on patriarchy in South Africa: (New Voices) How Complementarianism Just Makes No Sense with Terran Williams | Mutuality Matters (podbean.com) 

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Building on part one, Dr. Boaz Johnson considers how women throughout the Old Testament are characterized by strength (Chayil in Hebrew). Part of women’s strength is the result of much suffering, like Job’s wife who becomes the mother of seven boys and three girls. The girls are named but not the boys. Consider the Song of Songs, the Shulamite woman was also a shepherdess who experienced much pain but also and exhibited even more strength. Consider Ruth who is considered a Proverbs 31 woman. She is also a foreign woman who had much to overcome including much pain. Consider Esther, also portrayed as a Proverbs 31 woman. She too faced unbearable circumstances, but God was faithful and evident in her strength. It is by passing through much suffering that we are made rich with insights and intimacy with God, particularly noted in the Psalms of lament.
Consider Psalms 22:1 “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning?” These are the 7 last words of Jesus on the cross. Scholars note that while dying on the cross, Jesus was singing Psalm 22-23 which are songs of hope! The translation team came to the conclusion that this is not a cry of despair. It’s not a question but a statement that God will not forsake those in pain and who are suffering. Psalm 22: 9-10 was translated by the team as: “You are the one who drew me from the womb. You made me safe at my mother’s breast. Upon you I was cast from my birth. You have been my God from my mother’s womb.” In this passage, God is portrayed both as the father and also as mother. Remember, that while Christ was dying on the cross, the disciples ran away and hide behind locked doors. But the women remained with him, listening to Christ sing as he died. These words were preserved by the women as they remained vigilant with their dying Lord.
Throughout the podcast, Boaz expresses his delight in hearing the voices and insights of the women scholars on CBE’s translation team. The power of their collective wisdom will definitely bring much healing to our world overall, and to the future of Bible translation teams going forward. Thanks be to God!
Guest Bio: Dr. Boaz Johnson, PhD
Dr. Rev. Boaz Johnson (PhD, Trinity International University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is a professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at North Park University in Chicago, IL. His writing has appeared in publications such as Priscilla Papers, Mutuality, Christianity Today, and The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society. Boaz is a member of CBE’s translation team and a sought-after speaker. As an Old Testament scholar, Boaz has served on CBE’s Bible Translation Team from the very beginning. See CBE’s website for more resources from Boaz.

References
Women of Strength, in Hebrew—Chayil
Who is a Virtuous Woman?
Correcting Caricatures: Women and Bible Translation
Finding “The Proverbs 31 Woman”
Psalm 22 NIV
Books by Dr. Boaz Johnson
The Marys of the Bible: The Original #METOO Movement

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Mimi and Kim discuss CBE’s partnership with SheLearns in Uganda, East Africa, with the founder and director, Fred Sebaggala. Fred discusses the practical hardships and discrimination that women and girls face in Uganda and how the biblical message from Genesis through Galatians provides girls with the self-esteem to dream and pursue their goals. 

Guest Bio:
Fred Sebaggala is the founder and director of SheLearns, an organization designed to empower the girls. Observing his own mother’s difficulties as she ensured the education of all her children, while she was an uneducated, single woman inspired Fred to change the situation for future girls and families.  SheLearns holds seminars, works with groups of boys and girls, and partners with churches and communities to change the realities for girls regarding their education, rights, and justice. Additionally, SheLearns addresses girls’ practical barriers preventing them from education by providing reusable sanitary pads so that girls can attend school. CBE International has partnered with SheLearns and their work in Uganda for the past six years. 

Other Resources:

Visit the website of SheLearns to gain a deeper understanding of their work: SheLearns  

Learn more about CBE’s Partners in East Africa: Partnering in Africa - CBE International 

Listen to “A Lie Long Planted: Unearthing the Deep Roots of Gender Based Injustice” by Medad Birungi 

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Deborah Asio who oversees CBE’s East Africa partnerships  

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Emily Onyango to better understand the East African situation for girls and women. 

Listen to Terran Williams on patriarchy in South Africa: (New Voices) How Complementarianism Just Makes No Sense with Terran Williams | Mutuality Matters (podbean.com) 

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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Dr. Boaz Johnson explores women Bible translators such as Pandita Ramabai (1858-1922) who, as a child, memorized thousands of Sanskrit texts. After coming to faith as a Christian, Pandita mastered the ancient languages and produced a Bible in Marathi—a very popular dialect in India. The work was completed on her compound called Mukti—meaning salvation. In all of history, there was never a translation of Scripture like Pandita’s that was entirely the work of women: from translation to printing, binding, and distribution. Pandita’s work inspired a contemporary of hers, Katharine Bushnell, MD (1855-1946). A medical doctor, missionary, and anti-trafficking activist, Bushnell encountered prostituted girls in India and elsewhere in the world. Bushnell was convinced that poor Bible translations were part of the cause since they portrayed women as inferior to men. Both women, Ramabai and Bushnell, did significant work to expose and upend the demeaning of women noted in failed Bible translations, a topic Dr. Boaz Johnson addresses throughout the podcast. Another woman mentioned was Frances E. Siewert (1881-1997). Holding academic degrees such as Litt. B., B.D., M.A., Litt. D., Siewert is credited as the visionary who initiated the Amplified Bible.
Dr. Boaz Johnson expressed enormous appreciation for the team he works beside especially the women Bible translators from countries outside the US. Their scholarly expertise, coupled with their experiences as women from varied ethnicities and cultural backgrounds brings fresh perspectives to their translation decisions. One example was their decision to translate Ezer Kenegdo in Genesis 2:18 as “one who walks ahead of the other” in a posture of defense and protection. Ezer Kenegdo a phrase most often used of God’s rescue of Israel. This is also how God describes woman in Genesis 2:18: one who protects and defends the man. Dr. Boaz Johnson then connects the characteristic of women’s defensive protection noted in other biblical women like Ruth, the Proverbs 31 woman, and the wife of Job.
The episode ends by considering the women who suffer, the Mary’s of Scripture who through pain and trials become wise, strong, and prophetic leaders.
Guest Bio: Dr. Boaz Johnson, PhD
Dr. Rev. Boaz Johnson (PhD, Trinity International University and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is a professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at North Park University in Chicago, Illinois. His writing has appeared in publications such as Priscilla Papers, Mutuality, Christianity Today, and The Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society. Boaz is a member of CBE’s translation team and a sought-after speaker. As an Old Testament scholar, Boaz has served on CBE’s Bible Translation Team from the very beginning. View his bio and authored CBE resources on CBE’s website.

Other Related Reading and Resources
Pandita Ramabai
Pandita Ramabai’s Legacy: How Gender-Conscious Bible Translation Impacts Christian Ministry
Pandita Ramabai, Social Reformer and Bible Translator
Katharine Bushnell
Workshop Highlight: “Male, Female, Slave, and Free in the Context of a Pandemic: In the Thought of Katharine Bushnell
What Katharine Bushnell Still Has to Teach Us Today
Ezer Kenegdo (Gen 2:18) Woman as protector and defender
Genesis 2:18, NIV
What to Say If Someone Says Women Are to Be Men’s Helpers
Short Answers to Challenging Texts: Genesis 1–3
Books by Dr. Boaz Johnson
The Mary’s of the Bible
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In this episode, Layla and Rob sit down with InterVarsity colleagues Brooke Pland and Maddie Cummings to get a sense of Gen. Z’s perspective on women and men partnering together in ministry. These two women offer prophetic words to the church about representation, getting rid of gender-based leadership roles, and the importance of using the right job titles. If you have Gen. Z Christians in your life or faith community, this episode is a must-listen!

Bios
Maddie Cummings loves Jesus and joyfully serves in campus ministry with InterVarsity at CSU Channel Islands. She loves coffee and is a barista — her go-to is an oat milk cappuccino. She holds a degree in Global Studies and is always looking for ways to immerse herself and learn from other cultures. She would say she’s a socially introverted, emotionally self-aware, and funny gal! She’s quick-witted, blunt (maybe too often…), and a Swiftie. She hopes to make the world a better place by holding space for people to engage with Jesus in the hard things of the world!

Brooke Pland is a campus staff minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA,
serving within the Greek InterVarsity branch. For the last several years, she has worked with the fraternity & sorority community at her alma mater, U.C. Santa Barbara, where
she studied communication, French, and journalism and from which she is an Alpha
Chi Omega alumna. She is passionate about empowering women in leadership in all
spheres of influence, especially in the church.

Other Reading
Pink Mirror: The ‘Barbie’ Movie’s Wry Reminders of Inequality 
 
Women and Men Leading Together: The Value of Shared Partnerships from a Gen. Z Perspective with Tim Bushra

How to Teach Mutuality to the Next Generation

Disclaimer 
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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Show Notes 

Did you know that CBE reviews books before recommending them in the CBE bookstore? Did you know CBE has created its own books and resources that are available? In this final episode with hosts Blake and Erin, CBE’s manager of learning resources and international projects comes on the podcast to tell you about her favorite books and what to be on the lookout for that will be new to the bookstore. While Erin and Blake take their final bow, we want listeners to know that the podcast and interviews with authors will be continuing as Mutuality Matters Podcast continues to bring you fresh and valuable content.

Bio 

Elizabeth Beyer has worked at CBE since 2008 and currently serves as the manager of learning resources and international projects. She is also a writer and editor, most recently of Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities. If you have a question for Liz about the bookstore or book reviews, you can reach her at ebeyer@cbeinternational.org.

Other Reading  

Women, Abuse, and the Bible: How Scripture Can Be Used to Hurt or Healby Catherine Clark Kroeger and James R. Beck

God’s Word to Women by Katharine Bushnell

Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities

Paul through Mediterranean Eyes: Cultural Studies in 1 Corinthiansby Kenneth E. Bailey

Discovering Biblical Equality: Biblical, Theological, Cultural, and Practical Perspectives (3rd Edition)

Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle’s Vision for Men and Women in Christby Cynthia Long Westfall

Buried Talents: Overcoming Gendered Socialization to Answer God’s Callby Susan Harris Howell

Are Women Human? Astute and Witty Essays on the Role of Women in Societyby Dorothy L. Sayers

Nobody’s Mother: Artemis of the Ephesians in Antiquity and the New Testamentby Sandra L. Glahn

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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Referring to the Genesis passages from Part 1, Havilah addresses the challenges of using all masculine for God, noting it’s impact on women and girls by assessing Genesis 2:18: “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” Woman is too often described as “man’s helper or assistant.” But a more faithful treatment of the text would be woman as man’s “perfect comrade.”

Even more important, we tend to focus on God’s maleness, versus God as a motherly father, or God as fatherly Mother. An unfaithful and overuse of masculine language for God leaves women and girls wondering if they are, by comparison, somehow inferior. Sermons too often imply that God is more male than female with problematic outcomes. More attention is needed to focus on the feminine characteristics of God.

Consider Isaiah 42:14 (citing God): “For a long time I have kept silent, I have been quiet and held myself back. But now, like a woman in childbirth, I cry out, I gasp and pant.” And, if women preached more, these texts would come up and balance the preponderance of masculine language for God. This would be affirming to women and that God is beyond gender and uses both masculine and feminine images.

Havilah discussed some of her favorite passages like: Judges 4:4ff focused on Deborah. “Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time.” CBE’s proposed translation of this verse is one you won’t want to miss! Deborah is a woman of flame! She goes on top of the mountain to signal the army to charge. She’s a leader, prophet, and a fiery woman. She an unstoppable leader. She is “high voltage!”

The Deuteronomy 22 text was also discussed as it describes the rape of a woman which the translations “soften” what actually happened. It is very vital to make vivid and real the facts: calling out the fact she was raped. NIV also takes this posture, but we make it more clear throughout the text that the real issue is sexual assault.

We discussed Exodus 21:10 as the text addresses a man who takes another wife again softening the experiences of the woman. But our translation brings out the power of the text to reveal with greater empathy the woman as well as the man in the text.

We end with a discussion on “strength” or chayil in Hebrew in the book of Ruth. Chayil, Havilah points out, refers not only to strength but as status in the community. Boaz is described throughout the book of Ruth as a man of status or respect. And in Chapter 3, Boaz speaks to Ruth telling her she is a chayil a woman of strength. This is astonishing because as a Moabite, she was not even permitted to enter the community of Israel. They were viewed as an incestuous people. Yet Boaz calls Ruth chayil one who is outstanding in the community even as she reached out to him in the cover of night. But because she did so as a loyal daughter-in-law, who worked to protect and preserve the life of her mother-in-law (Naomi), she too deserves the status of chayil.

Havilah ends her discussion with the Proverbs 31 woman as a leader a chayil.

Guest Bio:

Dr. Havilah Dharamraj currently serves as academic editor of CBE’s award-winning academic journal, Priscilla Papers.She is a Langham Scholar and has for years pioneered a better biblical understanding of women in Scripture. Currently Havilah heads CBE’s chapter in India. She holds aPhD in Old Testament, from the University of Durham, UK. Her research interests are Old Testament and Comparative Literature. She is faculty at the South Asia Institute for Advanced Christian Studies, India. With an interest in biblical narrative, she encourages the use of storytelling in the pulpit. She is author of various articles, commentaries, and monographs, as well as an editor of the South Asia Bible Commentary (Zondervan, 2015) and the forthcoming South Asia Study Bible. Havilah writes and speaks for CBE. She received CBE’s Lifetime Achievement award in 2019.

Havilah Dharamraj’s Publications

Books: Authored and co-authored

• Altogether Lovely: A Thematic and intertextual Reading of the song of Songs
• Ruth: A Pastoral and Contextual Commentary (Asia Bible Commentary
• A Prophet Like Moses?: A Narrative—Theological Reading of Elijah Stories
• Five Views of Christ in the Old Testament: Genre, Authorial Intent, and the Nature of Scripture (Counterpoints: Bible and Theology)
• Challenging Tradition: Innovation in Advanced Theological Education (ICETE Series)
• South Asia Bible Commentary: A One-Volume Commentary on the Whole Bible

Havilah Dharamraj’s Articles

• Published by CBE International

Havilah Dharamraj’s CBE YouTube Lectures:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kzDLLnVRh8

Disclaimer: 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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Rev. Angela Ravin-Anderson welcomes new co-host, Rev. Liz Testa, and together they reflect on intersectionality and why it’s an important aspect of what shapes them as women, believers, and leaders. Angela and Liz reflect on their faith journeys and some of the narratives within their home or early development that shaped them, as well as how they have experienced being at the intersection of race, gender, and religion and navigated through the challenges and opportunities. Their lively conversation concludes with honest sharing about how God has called them to show up in the midst of the complexities of today’s world, and how they believe God is desiring women in general, and them in particular, to show up and make a positive, lasting impact.

Bios
Rev. Dr. Angela Ravin-Anderson, a native Texan, is an ordained minister with a true passion for seeing the people of God become an authentic expression of God’s love in the world. Dr. Ravin-Anderson created the Streams in the Wasteland Leadership Institute, a training program to equip and prepare transformational Christian leaders, especially women, based on their unique personalities, passions, and spiritual gifts to minister to the marginalized. She is also a facilitator for Project C.U.R.A.T.E., a faith-based initiative to bring about racial reconciliation and social justice reform within the Christian community. Dr. Ravin-Anderson is an adjunct professor at Abilene Christian University within the Bible Department teaching courses in Old and New Testament Studies, Christian Leadership, and Spiritual Formation. At Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church where she serves as part of the clergy team, she gives leadership to the Social Justice ministry and develops curriculum for adult Christian education and discipleship training programs. She holds a BA in Behavioral Science from Rice University, an MBA and MHA from the University of Houston-Clearlake, received her Master of Divinity degree, Summa Cum Laude from Houston Graduate School of Theology, and her Doctor of Ministry in the area of Pastoral and Missional Church Leadership from the same seminary.
Rev. Elizabeth (Liz) Testa, raised bi-culturally in New York and Spain, is a pastor, speaker, creative visionary, and community builder who is passionate about encouraging people to embrace their gifts and usher in a vision of God’s reign as women and men of all backgrounds serve together, freely and fully. She currently serves the Reformed Church in America as the ministry executive for Women’s Transformation and Leadership and Equity-Based Hospitality. In this capacity, she helps the RCA pursue a vision for the full inclusion of women’s gifts, influence, and leadership in all areas of the church and equips faith communities to develop equitable, hospitable practices that build and strengthen the body of Christ for mission in the world. Liz is the founder and host of the Lavish Hope: Stories of Resilience and Overcoming, a podcast that engages fresh perspectives from women and people of color. Rev. Testa holds a BFA (magna cum laude) from Syracuse University, and an MDiv from the Drew Theological School, where she was the John Heston Willey awardee for excellence in Pulpit Oratory and Manner. Her first career was as a professional actress and spokesperson, and she delights at how God uses those experiences to enhance her calling in ministry. Rev. Testa is currently a doctoral student in transformational preaching at New Brunswick Theological Seminary, NJ.
Learn more about Dr. Ravin-Anderson and Rev. Testa’s passions and projects:
Streams in the Wasteland
Project C.U.R.A.T.E.
RCA Women’s Transformation and Leadership and Equity-Based Hospitality
Lavish Hope Podcast

Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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Show Notes
Are women saved through childbearing? Blake and Erin tackle one of the stickiest passages concerning women in the New Testament with scholar, Sandra Glahn. In her forthcoming book: Nobody’s Mother, Glahn tackles this passage from 1 Timothy and the context that informs it. You can find the book in CBE’s Bookstore.

Bio
Sandra L. Glahn (PhD, University of Texas at Dallas) has authored or edited more than twenty books, including Vindicating the Vixens, Earl Grey with Ephesians, Sanctified Sexuality (coeditor), and Sexual Intimacy in Marriage (coauthor). This episode is about her forthcoming book from IVP Academic: Nobody’s Mother: Artemis of the Ephesians in Antiquity and the New Testament.

Other Resources 

Artemis of the Ephesians and the Ramifications for How We Read 1 Timothy: Sandra Glahn

How to Understand 1 Timothy 2? Context, Context, Context Andrew Bartlett

Paul’s Concern for Ephesus: A Survey of 1 Timothy 2:8–15


Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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In part one of “Translating the Old Testament with Dr. Havilah Dharamraj,” Havilah discusses not only her work leading CBE’s Old Testament translation team, but also their methodology, priorities, and examples of both. Significant examples cited include:

Psalm 68:11, “The Lord announces the word, and the women who proclaim it are a mighty throng.” Havilah and the team propose a far more faithful translation in English as: “The Lord speaks good news, and a great multitude of women broadcast it.” She mentions women in Scripture who broadcast the good news such as Mary Magdalene, John 20:11–18.

Considering the crucial issue of women’s inheritance, Havilah addresses Numbers 27:4 (correction from episode citing Num. 26:4): “Take a census of the men twenty years of age or older, as the LORD has commanded Moses.” And these were the Israelites who came out of the land of Egypt…” This passage has been the basis for women gaining inheritance rights the world over, especially today.

Next, we explored Genesis chapters 1–3. Especially Genesis 2:23 and Genesis 2:24 (correction from episode citing Genesis 1:23–24) to consider whether these passages suggest woman is derivative of man and therefore lesser? Too often that is how the passage is interpreted. But the team opted not for “bone of my bone, but “my own flesh and blood.” A far better “sense” translation because it speaks directly to the highest kinship relationships in the ancient world and today as well. When Adam first meets Eve and recognizes her as his own flesh and blood, the text immediately moves to: Thus, the husband detach from his kinship relations—his parents to attach to his wife, this now is the strongest bond—new kinship relation of marriage (Genesis 2:24). Hence, this text, when interpreted well, is quite subversive and gives women protection from alignment with the husband’s clan where women are often vulnerable and without support.

With power and wisdom, Havilah traces the pattern of chaos and disruption sin inaugurates into the sinless world. Sin disrupts the nature and relations of the serpent, the man and woman. The snake lost its locomotion, the man must labor to grow food, and the woman experiences pain in childbirth. Further, sin distorts/fractures not only the nature of life, but also the relationships between man and woman who no longer live in mutuality or oneness. In a sinful world, the man now rules over the woman who desires what was once their life of mutuality. Listen for more on these crucial passages.

Please join us for Part 2 on October 6 as Havilah discusses the impact of better transitions on issues such as feminine language for God, sexual abuse cited in Scripture, and women of strength in Ruth. Join us next month as “Women & Words: Why Bible Translations Matter” brings better ways of interpreting the Hebrew Bible.

Guest Bio:

Dr. Havilah Dharamraj currently serves as academic editor of CBE’s award-winning academic journal, Priscilla Papers.She is a Langham Scholar and has for years pioneered a better biblical understanding of women in Scripture. Currently Havilah heads CBE’s chapter in India. She holds aPhD in Old Testament, from the University of Durham, UK. Her research interests are Old Testament and Comparative Literature. She is faculty at the South Asia Institute for Advanced Christian Studies, India. With an interest in biblical narrative, she encourages the use of storytelling in the pulpit. She is author of various articles, commentaries, and monographs, as well as an editor of the South Asia Bible Commentary (Zondervan, 2015) and the forthcoming South Asia Study Bible. Havilah writes and speaks for CBE. She received CBE’s Lifetime Achievement award in 2019.

Havilah Dharamraj’s Publications

Books: Authored and co-authored

• Altogether Lovely: A Thematic and intertextual Reading of the song of Songs
• Ruth: A Pastoral and Contextual Commentary (Asia Bible Commentary
• A Prophet Like Moses?: A Narrative—Theological Reading of Elijah Stories
• Five Views of Christ in the Old Testament: Genre, Authorial Intent, and the Nature of Scripture (Counterpoints: Bible and Theology)
• Challenging Tradition: Innovation in Advanced Theological Education (ICETE Series)
• South Asia Bible Commentary: A One-Volume Commentary on the Whole Bible

Havilah Dharamraj’s Articles

• Published by CBE International

Havilah Dharamraj’s CBE YouTube Lectures:

• Revisiting Eden Genesis 2 as a Description from Below of the Creation Story
• Reading Ruth from South Asia

Disclaimer: 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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In this episode Mimi and Kim interview Stephanie Midthun of Courage Worldwide about their healing homes for girls rescued out of Sex Trafficking, both in the USA and in Tanzania. She discusses the root causes that make girls vulnerable to sex trafficking, as well as the healing girls experience that break the cycle of exploitation, causing a transformative ripple effect in the larger community. 

Trigger Warning: This episode contains details of trauma, sexual assault, rape, and abuse. Listener discretion is advised.  

Guest Bio 

Stephanie Midthun is trained in both Bible and music, serving as a music director for twenty-five years. In 2008 when Stephanie Midthun heard about the intense fight against human trafficking in her own backyard of Sacramento, she began writing music and leading concerts that benefited the fight against sex trafficking with Courage Worldwide who was opening safe houses for girls rescued out of sex trafficking in California and Kilimanjaro, Tanzania.  She eventually joined Courage Worldwide’s staff, and in 2017, after raising three boys, she and her husband took over as Executive Directors of Courage Worldwide Tanzania.  Since that time, the work in Tanzania has exploded from four residents and five staff at Courage House to sixty residents and children, fifty-five staff, two safe houses in the Kilimanjaro region, and a safe house in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, opening May 2023.  She is now the Courage Worldwide regional director of East Africa. 

Contact Information 

Email: Stephanie Midthun at s.midthun@courageworldwide.org 

Learn More  

Courage Worldwide Tanzania 

Other Resources  

Learn more about Courage Worldwide Tanzania. 

Read about the link between porn and sex trafficking in Porn's Complicity in Abuse by Mimi Haddad or listen to Pornography for Profit: The Link to Sex Trafficking by Sandra Morgan. 

Read about how to recognize and do something about human trafficking in The Selling and Buying of Souls (Part 1) and The Selling and Buying of Souls (Part 2) by Sherry Schwartz. 

Leveraging Mujerista and Womanist Theologies for Ministry Among Victims and Survivors of Sex Trafficking by Valerie Geer. 

Why Men Who Oppose Trafficking Must Fight Patriarchy by Rebecca Kotz. 

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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What does it mean to belong? How do we dismantle toxic systems and create equity in our missional spaces? Hosts Blake and Erin talk with Eeva Simard and Beth Birmingham about their practical book on organizational leadership and gender equality: Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive. Be sure to pick up your copy at the CBE bookstore and visit The Christian Alliance for Inclusive Development to follow their work.

Guest Bios:  Beth Birmingham is a professor, leadership consultant, author, speaker and facilitator/steering committee member for The Christian Alliance for Inclusive Development. She’s spent twenty-five years developing leaders for and serving in global development organizations, work that has taken her to over thirty countries. Beth is a member of the Wheaton Consortium for Development, Gender, and Christianity. Beth holds a PhD in leadership and change from Antioch University, and an MBA in international economic development from Eastern University.

Eeva Sallinen Simard is project director of World Relief’s SCOPE project that works in Haiti, Kenya, Malawi, and South Sudan to support health outcomes for mothers and babies. She has worked with nonprofits for ten years and is committed to excellence in management, communication, and employee wellbeing. Eeva is an advisor for the Wheaton Consortium for Development, Gender, and Christianity and a steering committee member of The Christian Alliance for Inclusive Development. Eeva holds an MS in international politics from the University of Helsinki and an MBA from John Hopkins University.

Together they co-authored Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive (IVP, 2022).

Other Resources:

Global Impact: Religious Gatekeeping and Egalitarian Leadership with Dr. Beth Birmingham

Speakers Highlight: Beth Birmingham and Eeva Sallinen Simard

Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive | Eeva Sallinen Simard and Beth Birmingham

Disclaimer: 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

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Dr. Philip B. Payne is a key member of CBE’s Bible Translation Team. He was active and instrumental from the very start! During episodes one and two, Mimi and Phil explore the important translation decisions of the New Testament team on difficult texts such as 1 Timothy 2:11–15, 3:1–12; Ephesians 5:21–33; 1 Corinthians 11:2–16; 1 Peter 2:18, and more! Phil brings in conversations from the first century and explains some of the complexities to the whole translation process as it impacts the lives of girls, women, and their communities worldwide.

Guest Bio: Philip B. Payne (Ph.D. University of Cambridge) has taught New Testament in colleges like the University of Cambridge, Trinity Evangelical Theological Seminary, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, Bethel Seminary, and Fuller Theological Seminary. He is an expert on women in the Bible and Codex Vaticanus. His books include Man and Woman, One in Christ, Why Can’t Women Do That? and The Bible vs. Biblical Womanhood: How God’s Word Consistently Affirms Gender Equality. He and his wife Nancy were missionaries in Japan. Their three children and six grandchildren all love the Lord.

Resources by Dr. Philip B. Payne:

CBE resources by Philip B. Payne

Follow @philipbpayne on Twitter!

Click to visit a list of resources by Dr. Philip B. Payne.

The Christian Post articles by Philip B. Payne:

• Can women be pastors? What I discovered during 50 years of research.
• Does 1 Timothy 2:12-15 prohibit women from teaching or having authority over men?
• Does I Corinthians say women have to cover their heads?
• What Ephesians 5really teaches about husband-wife submission
• Mutual submission in 1 Peter 3:1-7: Husband submit to wife?
• Is the 'order of creation' male authority Bible argument valid?

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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Wendy Wilson, mission advisor for the Development of Women for Missio Nexus, is convinced that women and men are designed for full and equal partnership in ministry, and it shows! In this episode, Wendy challenges the church to awaken to that vision, and she provides one way to get there: safe, experiential spaces to talk about the theology and practice of mixed-gender ministry partnership. Listen and be inspired—as Wendy notes, change is happening!

Guest Bio:

Having served in various capacities in leadership training ministry since 1984, Wendy’s great joy is envisioning and equipping women to participate fully in living out their design in the Image of God and in the grand calling of the Great Commission. With a BBA from Texas A&M University and an MABS from Dallas Theological Seminary, Wendy has led inter-mission and inter-confessional mentoring and equipping efforts for 30+ years, having lived and traveled abroad for many of those years. After serving for twenty-eight years with a pastoral training mission, with a focus on engaging women with shepherding gifts, she has served since 2012 as the mission advisor for Development of Women to the Missio Nexus network of mission agencies, and as the founder and executive director of the collaborative Women’s Development Track.

More info on Missio Nexus and Wendy’s ministry:

Missio Nexus

Women's Development Track

Other Resources:

CBE eLearning Course: Beyond Bias: Aligning towards God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation

The Ministry of Women in the New Testament: Reclaiming the Biblical Vision for Church Leadership

How to Teach Mutuality to the Next Generation

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

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What are the messages the church sends to girls and women about modesty, sex, emotions, and self, producing as they grow up? Blake and Erin talk with Sheila Gregoire about her book: She Deserves Better: Raising Girls to Resist Toxic Teachings on Sex, Self, And Speaking Up. This discussion unpacks the damage being done and how we combat it to raise women and girls and our churches to love Jesus without the toxic culture that is breaking them down.

Bio 

Sheila Wray Gregoire is the face behind BareMarriage.com, and a sought-after speaker, podcast host, and author. Sheila is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. She lives in Ontario, Canada, with her husband. They have two adult daughters and two grandbabies. She is an award-winning author of nine books, including The Great Sex Rescue and She Deserves Better: Raising Girls to Resist Toxic Teachings on Sex, Self, And Speaking Up.

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Other Reading  

The Good News About Sex After Marriage: You Can Still Say “No”

What I Wish the Church Had Told My Husband and Me About Sex and Consent

We Need to Talk to Our Kids About Sexism at School: 4 Talking Points for Parents

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Guest bio: Philip B. Payne (Ph.D. University of Cambridge) has taught New Testament in colleges like University of Cambridge, Trinity Evangelical Theological Seminary, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, Bethel Seminary, and Fuller Theological Seminary. He is an expert on women in the Bible and Codex Vaticanus. His books include Man and Woman, One in Christ; Why Can’t Women Do That? and (forthcoming April 4, 2023 PBP delete this since it is already available) The Bible vs. Biblical Womanhood: How God’s Word Consistently Affirms Gender Equality. He and his wife Nancy were missionaries in Japan. Their three children and six grandchildren all love the Lord.

Phil is a key member of CBE’s Bible Translation Team. He was active and instrumental from the very start. During episode one and two, Phil explores the important translation decisions the New Testament Team on vexatious texts such as 1 Timothy 2:11-15, 1 Timothy 3: 1-12, Ephesians 5:21-33; 1 Corinthians 11: 2-16, 1 Peter 2:18 and more! Phil brings in conversations from the first century and explains some of the complexities to the whole translation process as it impacts the lives of girls, women, and their communities worldwide. Please join us.

Resources by Phil Payne:

• See Phil Payne’s bio: https://www.cbeinternational.org/person/philip-b-payne/
• For a list of resources by Phil visit: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?Ntt=Philip+Payne&N=0&Ntk=keywords&action=Search&Ne=0&event=ESRCG&nav_search=1&cms=1&ps_exit=RETURN%7Clegacy&ps_domain=cbeinternational
• CBE website a German translation of my Priscilla Papers 29, 1 (2015) article, “The Bible Teaches the Equal Standing of Man and Woman.” Hans-Jörg Ronsdorf is planning to add to it my Odyssey and How important is this? and publish it in German.

• I just learned that Gospel and Modern China (website: http://gospelchina.cn/magazine) will also be publishing this article in Mandarin Chinese (which is already on the CBE website) and requests other articles by me.

• Cynthia Long Westfall and I both presented at the Symposium on Women in Leadership and received enthusiastic responses in Boise Idaho, and I had the joy of sitting with my mother, who will be 99 in October, and my three brothers at the Twin Lakes Bible Conference in Aptos, CA last month, where I presented three seminars on women in church leadership, all well-attended and well-received. Two people said they were so pleased that I could sit with my wife. I wish you could have heard Mom laugh when she learned about it. She is still sharp as a tack and understood my seminar very well.

• The Christian Post has in the past two months published seven op-ed articles on specific passages or ideas on this topic and has asked for more:
• https://www.pbpayne.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/CP-3-31-2023-Can-women-be-pastors-What-I-discovered-during-50-years-of-research.pdf
• https://www.christianpost.com/voices/does-1-timothy-212-15-prohibit-women-having-authority-over-men.html

• https://www.christianpost.com/voices/does-i-corinthians-say-women-have-to-cover-their-heads.html

• https://www.christianpost.com/voices/does-the-bible-teach-male-headship.html

• https://www.christianpost.com/voices/what-ephesians-5-really-means-about-husband-wife-submission.html
• https://www.christianpost.com/voices/mutual-submission-in-1-peter-31-7-husband-submit-to-wife.html
• https://www.christianpost.com/voices/is-the-order-of-creation-male-authority-bible-argument-valid.html
• Follow @philipbpayne on Twitter

Thanks for joining CBE’s Podcast Mutuality Matters: Women & Words: Why Bible Translation Matters!

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Show Notes 

Both complementarians and egalitarians have cited the doctrine of the imago Dei in the early chapters of Genesis as a cornerstone for their theology on women and men. Blake and Erin talk with Dr. Lucy Peppiatt about her book: The Imago Dei: Humanity Made in the Image of God. In this discussion, Dr. Peppiatt skillfully breaks down complex theological arguments often weaponized against women, such as the eternal subordination of Christ and 1 Corinthians 11:7–9. Be sure to pick up the book (and others by Peppiatt) at the CBE bookstore and visit her college’s website for free resources that link to the podcast discussion and her books: https://wtctheology.org.uk/lucy-peppiatt/

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Bio 

Author and instructor, Dr. Lucy Peppiatt has been Principal of WTC (Westminster Theological Centre) since 2013. She teaches courses in Christian doctrine and spiritual formation. She holds bachelor’s degrees in both English and Theology. She completed her MA in systematic theology at King’s College, London, and her PhD through the University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand. Lucy’s research interests are Christ and the Spirit, charismatic theology, theological anthropology, discipleship, 1 Corinthians, and women in the Bible. Lucy is part of Crossnet Anglican Church in Bristol. She is married to Nick Crawley, and they have four sons and four daughters-in-law. She is the author of several books such as Rediscovering Scripture's Vision for Women: Fresh Perspectives on Disputed Texts, Women and Worship at Corinth, Unveiling Paul’s Women: Making Sense of 1 Corinthians 11:2–16, and The Imago Dei: Humanity Made in the Image of God.

Other Reading  

Short Show Notes (Short version for Margaret) 

Both complementarians and egalitarians have cited the doctrine of the imago Dei in the early chapters of Genesis as a cornerstone for their theology on women and men. Blake and Erin talk with Dr. Lucy Peppiatt about her book, The Imago Dei: Humanity Made in the Image of God.

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Show Notes

Have you ever wondered why there are so many different Bible translations? And which Bible translation is the “best” translation to use? On this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad and Dr. Jeffrey Miller answer these questions and discuss the two major theories of Bible translation: formal equivalence (word-for-word) and functional equivalence (phrase-for-phrase). Jeff also gives some fascinating insights into which theory they used and when in CBE’s Bible translation project!

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Jeff Miller is editor of CBE’s academic journal, Priscilla Papers. He holds bachelor’s degrees in pastoral ministry and church music, an MDiv, and a PhD in biblical interpretation. Since 1999 he has taught biblical studies at Milligan University in eastern Tennessee. He is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and has published articles in journals such as The Bible Translator, Leaven, Restoration Quarterly, and Stone-Campbell Journal and CBE’s Mutuality. He and his wife Dana have two adult daughters and five grandchildren. For a list of resources by Jeff, visit CBE’s website here.

Resources Cited

• Journals

• Priscilla Papers

• The Bible Translator

• Books:

• God’s Word to Women, by Katharine Bushnell

• New Testament for Everyone: Complete Eighteen-Volume Set, by N.T. Wright

• Bible Translations cited during the Show:

• The King James Bible

• The Wycliffe Bible

• The Tyndale Bible

• Common English Bible: (CEB)

• Contemporary English Version (CEV)
• The NET Bible (NET)
• New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

• The New International Bible (NIV)

• The New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Bible Passages Cited

• Matthew 4:17: “From that time on Jesus began to preach, ‘Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.’” CEB
• Proverbs 31:23: “Her husband is known in the gates, When he sits among the elders of the land.” NASB

• Proverbs 31:31: “Give her the product of her hands, And let her works praise her in the gates.” NASB

• Luke 13:18-21: “So He was saying, “What is the kingdom of God like, and to what shall I compare it? It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and threw into his own garden; and it grew and became a tree, and the birds of the sky nested in its branches.” And again He said, “To what shall I compare the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three sata of flour until it was all leavened.” CEB

Other Resources

• E-learning Courses:

• Beyond Bias: Aligning Toward God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation

• Videos

• Gender Language in Bible Translation: From KJV to NIV

• Video: Gender-Accurate Bible Translation Panel

• Mutuality Matters Podcast

• Intersectionality: Words Matter! Freedom through Lectionary and Bible Translation with Rev. Dr. Wilda C. Gafney

• Mutuality Magazine

• “Presumption and Bias in Bible Translation”

• “Gender Accuracy in Bible Translation”

• “The New NIV 2011”

• Mutuality Blog:

• Correcting Caricatures: Women and Bible Translation

• Resources on Formal vs. Functional Equivalence:

• “What Are the Major Theories of Bible Translation?”

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Show Notes

In this episode, Mimi and Kim interview Brad Twedt of International Justice Mission (IJM). Brad explains IJM’s work to address violence against women and children in the machismo culture of Central and South America. IJM works with the police departments, prosecutors, departments of justice, and local community anti-violence advocates to change the culture of violence against women. As they face powerful forces, they find that reliance on God in praise, supplication, and lament gives them the strength in their work.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Brad Twedt serves as executive vice president, global people support, at International Justice Mission (IJM). IJM is a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting people in poverty from slavery and other forms of violence. A lawyer by training, Brad started his service at IJM as a volunteer Legal Fellow in Kampala, Uganda, and Guatemala City, Guatemala. He then stepped into over a decade of leadership in IJM’s Latin America region. He led IJM’s program aimed at violence against women and children in Central America as Guatemala country director and as Northern Triangle regional vice president. Brad and his wife, ReJean, returned to the US in 2022 after residing in Guatemala City for nearly eleven years. Brad received his JD from the Columbia University School of Law and joined IJM after a legal career in both New York City and Chicago.

Contact Information

IJM Website: https://www.ijm.org/our-work

Brad Twedt: btwedt@ijm.org

Resources

Books Referenced in Interview by Gary Haugen:

Good News About Injustice: A Witness of Courage in a Hurting World

The Locust Effect: Why the End of Poverty Requires the End of Violence

Book Review: Is There Any Good News About Injustice? By Victoria Peterson-Hilleque

Mutuality Matters podcast referenced in Closing: (Intersectionality) Hope & Justice-Dismantling and Reconciling through the Psalms with Dr. Gabby Cudjoe-Wilkes

Books by and about Katherine Bushnell referenced in closing:

God’s Word to Women by Katharine Bushnell

Daughters of Deliverance by Lorry Lutz

The Queen’s Daughters by Lorry Lutz

Read about the link between poverty and violence against women: Why Does Injustice Against Women Abound?

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Show Notes 

Why is history critical for how we understand theology? Author, professor, and historian Dr. Beth Allison Barr discusses her two new, forthcoming projects with Erin and Blake. Listeners get a front-row sneak peek into why the rise of the “pastor's wife” role affected women’s ordination and why medieval history needs to be rediscovered by Protestants for the sake of women and men in our churches.

Bio 

Beth Allison Barr is the James Vardaman Professor of History at Baylor University. She earned her PhD in Medieval History from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and is the bestselling author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth. She is also a pastor’s wife and mom of two great kids. She is currently working on two new publications: Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: The History of How Marriage (Not Ordination) Became Women’s Pathway to Ministry and Losing Our Medieval Religion: The Cost of Forgetting History for White Evangelical Christians.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Other Reading  

The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth

A Medieval Makeover: Women’s Roles Before and After the Reformation

The Pastoral Care of Women in Late Medieval England (Gender in the Middle Ages)

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Show Notes

On this episode of Mutuality Matters, Dr. Mimi Haddad introduces the newest podcast thread, “Women and Words: Why Bible Translation Matters” with guest, Dr. Jeffrey Miller. Jeff gives listeners a window into the world of Bible translation and interpretation, and shares about CBE’s gender-accurate Bible translation team, their struggles, successes, and surprises. Learn about how you can support CBE’s Bible translation team here.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Jeff Miller is editor of CBE’s academic journal, Priscilla Papers.He holds bachelor’s degrees in pastoral ministry and church music, an MDiv, and a PhD in biblical interpretation. Since 1999 he has taught biblical studies at Milligan University in eastern Tennessee. He is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and has published articles in journals such as The Bible Translator, Leaven, Restoration Quarterly, and Stone-Campbell Journaland CBE’s Mutuality. He and his wife Dana have two adult daughters and two grandchildren. For a list of resources by Jeff, visit CBE’s website here.

Resources Cited

• Journals
• Priscilla Papers
• The Bible Translator
• Books:
• God’s Word to Women, by Katharine Bushnell
• Bible Translations cited during the Show:
• Common English Bible: (CEB)
• Contemporary English Version(CEV)
• The NET Bible (NET)
• New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

Bible Passages Cited

• Genesis 2:18: The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable (ezer knegdo) for him.” NIV
• Mark 5:25:  And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. NIV
• Hebrews 11:11: And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she considered him faithful who had made the promise. NIV
• Colossians 4:1: “Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.” NIV
• 1 Timothy 2: 11-15: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. NIV
• Isaiah 3:12: Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. My people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path. NIV
• Ephesians 5:33: “However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.” NIV

Other Resources

Video: Gender-Accurate Bible Translation Panel

Beyond Bias: Aligning towards God’s Vision for Women and Men in Bible Translation

Intersectionality: Words Matter! Freedom through Lectionary and Bible Translation with Rev. Dr. Wilda C. Gafney

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Show Notes

This month, Layla and Rob are joined by married co-pastors (and co-parents!) Rici and Phil Skei. Two themes emerged from the conversation. First, Rici shares her testimony of God speaking to her (while driving on the freeway!) about there being no limits on her ministry leadership. Second, the Skeis paint a compelling picture of joyful role flexibility, both in ministry and in the home.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Phil and Rici Skei are both natives of Fresno, California. They serve as co-pastors of On Ramps Covenant Church in their downtown Fresno neighborhood. In addition to pastoring alongside Rici, Phil works as the assistant director of planning and development for the City of Fresno where he oversees the development of affordable housing and homeless response. Phil received his bachelor of science degree from CSU Fresno, and his Master of Divinity degree from the Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary (Fresno, California). Rici holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and master's degree in education – both from Fresno Pacific University, as well as a master's degree in Christian Formation from North Park Theological Seminary. They are both ordained ministers with the Evangelical Covenant Church and are contributing authors to Out of Nazareth: Christ-Centered Civic Transformation in Unlikely Places. Additionally, Rici published, Let the People Worship, a 40-Day Devotional which is being used throughout the Country as a way to develop and invest in both English-speaking and Spanish-speaking worship leaders and praise teams. Rici and Phil have been married since 2001 and are the proud parents of two beautiful daughters.

Listeners can reach Phil and Rici Skei at:

Phil-Rici Skei on Facebook

@philskei on Twitter

@riciskei, @teamskei and @onrampschurch on Instagram

Other Resources:

My Ordination Story: A Calling Affirmed

Building Confidence in Your Calling: Overcoming the Inner Critic

No More Doubt: How I Finally Embraced My Ministry Calling

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Show Notes 

How would a marriage partnership shift when one person contracts a chronic illness? How should we address complementarian standards of gender roles in the home when considering the limits of our spouses? In the Spring 2023 issue of Mutuality Magazine, grief counselor and professor, Kailey Bradley writes about these topics and then joins Erin and Blake for a conversation about Ableism, gender roles, and the interdependency of the gospel.

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Bio 

Kailey earned her bachelor of arts from Mount Vernon Nazarene University in 2012 and finished her master's in clinical mental health counseling at Ashland Theological Seminary in 2015. Kailey has a background in hospice work and feels that companioning and advocating for grievers is her life’s passion. She is a counselor at Refuge Counseling and specializes in working with individuals of all ages, with special interest and care given to children’s bereavement, complicated grief, perinatal loss, and chronic illness. Kailey has completed training at the center for loss and life transition and is a licensed clinical thanatologist. Kailey is also an adjunct professor at Ashland Theological Seminary where she teaches grief and crisis counseling courses. She recently contributed an article to the Spring 2023 Issue of Mutuality Magazine titled, “Caregiving & Gender Equity in Interabled Relationships.”

You can contact Kailey in the following ways:

Kailey@allrefuge.com

allrefuge.com

Related Resources

Caregiving and Gender Equity in Interabled Relationships

In Sickness, Never Health: A Mutual Marriage

Persevering with the Woman Who Bled for Twelve Years

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Show Notes

In this episode, Mimi and Kim continue their conversation with Dr. Vandana Kant. Inspired by the example of Jesus as shepherd, she and her team creatively seek out the sick, hurting, and shunned women to provide transformative love, care, and value. After years of work that began in the 1990s with Dr. Aletta Bell, they are now beginning to see significant changes in the surrounding community.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio:

Dr. Vandana Kant, in addition to her medical degree, has a master’s in public health (MPH). For the past fifteen years she has been the project director for community health and development projects in North India.

Contact Information

Email: vandana@eha-health.org

Learn More

A video about Dr. Vandana Kant https://youtu.be/DqxNg9Cd3Aw

Emmanuel Hospital Association: https://eha-health.org/

Duncan Hospital: https://duncanhospital-eha.org/

India’s Invisible Girl Project: https://invisiblegirlproject.org/

Other Resources:
Part One: Global Impact: Women’s Health and Status in North India with Dr. Vandana Kant

Helping Christians Set Trends for Oppressed Women in India: Ellen Alexander and Beulah Wood

Woman in India: Her Choices, Struggles, and Destinations: Finny Philip

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Show Notes

In this episode, Mimi and Kim interview Dr. Vandana Kant who describes the health outcomes of cultures that favor males. Inspired by the example of Jesus as shepherd, she and her team creatively seek out the sick, hurting, and shunned women to provide transformative love, care, and value. After years of work that began in the 1990s with Dr. Aletta Bell, they are now beginning to see significant changes in the surrounding community for girls and women.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Dr. Vandana Kant, in addition to her medical degree, has a master’s in public health (MPH). For the past fifteen years she has been the project director for community health and development projects in North India.

Contact Information

Email: vandana@eha-health.org

Learn More

A video about Dr. Vandana Kant https://youtu.be/DqxNg9Cd3Aw

Emmanuel Hospital Association: https://eha-health.org/

Duncan Hospital: https://duncanhospital-eha.org/

India’s Invisible Girl Project: https://invisiblegirlproject.org/

Other Resources

Read about the condition for women in India by Beulah Wood in A Theology of the Generations

Listen to Helping Christians Set Trends for Oppressed Women in India: Ellen Alexander and Beulah Wood

Listen to our Mutuality Matters Podcast Interview with Dr Bell - Founder of Raxaul Community Health & Development Project

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Show Notes:

Enjoying the podcast? Take our survey and help shape the future of Mutuality Matters! Go to cbe.today/podsurvey.

This month, Rev. Elaine May joins Layla and Rob to share a hopeful vision for shared leadership in the context of God’s mission. Along the way, she shares a compelling list of practical tips, including emotional health and self-leadership, “gospel humility,” creating leadership pipelines that develop women into leaders, and intentionally modeling fruitful partnerships for the next generation.

Bio:

Rev. Elaine May is a ministry consultant with the Christian Reformed Church in North America. Elaine's consultation work focuses on the development of leaders who partner with God in his redemptive mission. She is graduating from Fuller Theological Seminary with her Doctor of Ministry in Lifelong Leadership Development this Spring. Elaine and her husband Greg have four emerging adults. The family's home base is in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

To connect with Elaine, go to crcna.org/womensleadership.

On Facebook: Elaine Van Til May

Other Resources:

The Experiences of Women in Church and Denominational Leadership

Audio: Creating a Paradigm Shift in Denominational Practice

5 Definitive Signs A Church Is Invested In Women

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Show Notes

When considering the call of Christ on every believer's life, Rev. Stephanie Wilkins condenses it down simply to showing up to love God and others well. She and Angela explore how an ethos rooted in Christ’s love for us propels Rev. Stephanie as an activist and an educator to show up in a broken world and bring forth positive change. Going into the public sphere as a “first responder” of moral agency follows the path of Jesus to go where the needs are greatest. Doing what Jesus did, this practical theologian will inspire you to show up to love.

Enjoying the podcast? Take our survey and help shape the future of Mutuality Matters! Go to cbe.today/podsurvey.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Rev. Wilkins transitioned from educating children to a second career working to serve God through ministry when she answered her call in 2013. She graduated from Southern Methodist University Perkins School of Theology in 2018 with a Master of Arts in Ministry. She was ordained as a United Methodist Deacon in 2021. She is currently working on her Doctorate in Ministry at United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio. Rev. Stephanie works in the area of Social Justice and Community Engagement. She is one of the Associate Pastors of St. John’s Downtown. She has been involved in organizing the Poor People’s Campaign, Black Voters Matter, Pure Justice (a criminal justice reform advocacy group), and the Houston Society for Change. Rev. Wilkins sees her call as one that follows the example of Christ. “Jesus was what I would call a “first responder;” Jesus went where the trouble was, and that is what I am called to do.” She believes in the scripture found in Matthew 25 which reads, “Whatever you did to the least of these my brothers and sisters, you did it to me.” To be on the side of the oppressed and to work to alleviate suffering is her call and she strives to answer it daily.

Other Reading

Educator and Visionary: A Profile of Mary McLeod Bethune

Righteous Love: Making Space for Love Among Black Women

Great Love: Reflections on Jesus’s Inclusion of the Unnamed Woman

Means of Contacting

wecllc2007@gmail.com

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Show Notes 

What does purity culture have to do with toxic masculinity? Author Zachary Wagner talks about his forthcoming book with Erin and Blake, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality. They discuss how both women and men are dehumanized by purity culture and toxic masculinity, and how Jesus and the gospel restores them both. Enjoying the podcast? Take our survey and help shape the future of Mutuality Matters! Go to cbe.today/podsurvey.

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Bio 

Zachary Wagner is editorial director for the Center for Pastor Theologians. He is currently pursuing a PhD in New Testament at the University of Oxford. He lives in Oxford, England, with his wife and three children. He is the author of a new book coming out in April 2023 titled, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality. 

Related Resources

My Kingdom for a World of Such Men: 3 Hallmarks of Healthy Masculinity

The Tears of Men: The Emotional Masculinity of Jesus and Saint Francis

Jesus’ Vision for Masculinity: The (Actual) Best A Man Can Get

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Show Notes

In this episode, hosts Mimi and Kim continue their discussion with Dr. Beth Birmingham who explores egalitarian leadership in Christian humanitarian organizations. Birmingham gives clear insight into the day-to-day operations of Christian NGOs and reveals that their attempts at cultural sensitivity can lead to ignoring harmful patriarchal norms and gatekeeping women from leadership.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Dr. Beth Birmingham is an author, speaker, and chief facilitator for The Christian Alliance for Inclusive Development. As a previous full-time professor at Eastern University, she’s spent 25 years developing leaders for and serving in global development organizations, work that has taken her to over 30 countries. She is the co-author of Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive (IVP, 2022) and past publications on NGO Partnerships, including Shared Strength (Compassion Press, 2010). Beth is a member of the Wheaton Consortium for Development, Gender, and Christianity. Beth holds a PhD in Leadership and Change from Antioch University, and an MBA in International Economic Development from Eastern University.

Contact Information

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbirmingham

Email: Beth@the-christianalliance.org

Learn More about Dr. Birmingham

https://www.cbeinternational.org/person/beth-birmingham/

https://www.eastern.edu/beth-birmingham

https://www.ivpress.com/beth-birmingham

https://www.tearfundusa.org/beth_birmingham

Resources

Read Dr. Beth Birmingham’s book, Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive.

Read a preview to Beth’s CBE International 2022 Conference Presentation, Speaker Highlight: Beth Birmingham and Eeva Sallinen Simard.

Watch Beth’s CBE International 2022 Conference Presentation,Video: Creating Cultures of Belonging: Creating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive.

Listen to our Mutuality Matters Podcast Interview with Ron and Arbutus Sider.

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Show Notes

This month Layla and Rob chat with Amy and Mac Smith, married campus ministers. The Smiths help us think through the nitty gritty details of partnership in ministry and in marriage. How do they make it work? They’re super intentional! Listeners will be inspired (and challenged!) by their example of abundant communication, working through power differentials, being purposeful with modeling, taking gifting seriously, and even resolving conflict publicly!

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Amy and Mac Smith have been on staff with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship for twenty-five years. Amy is a regional ministry director for InterVarsity in the Rocky Mountain Region and Mac is a senior area ministry director for InterVarsity in Northern Utah. Amy and Mac spent nine years leading ministry in Reno, Nevada, where they built one of the largest InterVarsity chapters in the country and saw hundreds of students come to faith and developed many students into lifelong Christian leaders. In 2007 they moved to Utah where at the time there was just a handful of students on two campuses and now fifteen years later there are over 400 students involved with InterVarsity from every campus in the state of Utah.  Amy and Mac live in Ogden, Utah, with their two boys—Gabe, 17, and Hudson, 14.

If listeners would like to connect…

Mac’s email: mac.smith@intervarsity.org

Amy’s email: amy.smith@intervarsity.org

Related Resources

Strategies for an Equal Marriage in the Midst of Unequal Career Demands

Women and Men Leading Together: Living as the Beloved Community with Drs. Quentin and Cindy Kinnison

Leading Together: Lessons from Sharing Leadership in Ministry and Marriage

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Show Notes

If you say that you follow Jesus, then your life should reflect the teachings of Jesus. Angela and Dr. Susan K. Williams Smith discuss how the teachings of Jesus stood diametrically opposed to doctrines that support empire-building and oppressive power structures. Instead, we are called to love each other and to tend to the least of these within our society. The call to be a Christian is a call to a radical lifestyle that is not always popular but does usher in the reign of Christ on earth.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Dr. Susan K. Williams Smith is an ordained minister, musician, writer, and activist living in Columbus, Ohio. She has written for the Washington Post and Huffington Post, as well as on her blog, Candid Observations. She currently serves as one of the tri-chairs for the Ohio Poor People’s Campaign: A National Call for Moral Revival. She also serves as national scribe for the African American Ministers’ Leadership Council (AAMLC), communications consultant for the Samuel DeWitt Proctor Conference, and is the founder of Crazy Faith Ministries. She is a graduate of Occidental College and Yale Divinity School and earned a DMin from United Theological Seminary. Her previous book, Crazy Faith: Ordinary People, Extraordinary Lives, was published by Judson Press.

Means of Contacting

Susan@sdpconference.info

crazyfaithministries.org

https://www.facebook.com/CandidObserver

Twitter: @cassady2euca

chapel@howard.edu

Related Reading:

Womanist Liberation for All We Are Our Foremothers’ Wildest Dream

Women in Scripture and Mission: Sojourner Truth Audio: Recovering History: Antebellum Evangelical Feminist Voices in the Condemnation of Slavery

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Show Notes 

Did women hold positions of authority in the early church? Dr. Nijay Gupta talks with hosts Erin and Blake about his forthcoming book, Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church. Be sure to pick up Dr. Gupta’s book on March 14 and visit his blog, Crux Sola, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/cruxsola/ or follow him on Twitter @NijayKGupta or listen to his podcast: Slow Theology.

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Bio 

Nijay K. Gupta (PhD, New Testament, University of Durham) is a professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary. Previously, he was a professor of New Testament at Portland Seminary, where he also oversaw the master's thesis program and advised doctoral students. He is the author of the book Tell Her Story, Worship That Makes Sense to Paul, and Prepare, Succeed, Advance: A Guidebook for Getting a PhD in Biblical Studies and Beyond along with Bible commentaries and over a dozen academic articles in theological journals. 

Related Resources  

Teach Us, Mary: The Authority of Women Teachers in the Church in Light of the Magnificat (Luke 1:46–55)

Why Deborah Makes All the Difference

Tell Her Story: How Women Led, Taught, and Ministered in the Early Church

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Show Notes

In this episode, hosts Mimi and Kim interview Dr. Beth Birmingham who explores egalitarian leadership in Christian humanitarian organizations, discussing how their cultural, theological, and organizational perspectives often determine their commitment to egalitarian leadership. Birmingham combines a straight-forward analysis with personal faith and on-the-ground mentoring of women and men to provide a powerful lens into human flourishing in the nonprofit world.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Dr. Beth Birmingham is an author, speaker, and chief facilitator for The Christian Alliance for Inclusive Development. As a previous full-time professor at Eastern University, she’s spent 25 years developing leaders for and serving in global development organizations, work that has taken her to over 30 countries. She is the co-author of Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive (IVP, 2022) and past publications on NGO Partnerships, including Shared Strength (Compassion Press, 2010). Beth is a member of the Wheaton Consortium for Development, Gender, and Christianity. Beth holds a PhD in Leadership and Change from Antioch University, and an MBA in International Economic Development from Eastern University.

Contact Information

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethbirmingham

Email: Beth@the-christianalliance.org

Learn More about Dr. Birmingham

https://www.cbeinternational.org/person/beth-birmingham/

https://www.eastern.edu/beth-birmingham

https://www.ivpress.com/beth-birmingham

https://www.tearfundusa.org/beth_birmingham

Resources

Read Dr. Beth Birmingham’s book, Creating Cultures of Belonging: Cultivating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive.

Read a preview to Beth’s CBE International 2022 Conference Presentation, Speaker Highlight: Beth Birmingham and Eeva Sallinen Simard.

Watch Beth’s CBE International 2022 Conference Presentation,Video: Creating Cultures of Belonging: Creating Organizations Where Women and Men Thrive.

Listen to our Mutuality Matters Podcast Interview with Ron and Arbutus Sider.

View Details

Show Notes

In this episode, Layla and Rob sit down with Rev. Dr. Erin Moniz and Father Matthew Aughtry to learn about their unique ministry partnership. During the week, Matthew works for Erin, but on the weekend the reverse is true! You’ll enjoy hearing Erin and Matthew talk about how a deep and vital friendship, an open-handed view of power, and a healthy dose of communication make their partnership thrive.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Filmmaker, priest, and chaplain. Before helping plant All Saints, Fr. Matthew Aughtry served the ACNA at Christ Church Waco and ACNA/C4SO at Resurrection Los Angeles. He works for Baylor University as a chaplain overseeing ministry to artists and working to foster a deeper imagination for God’s kingdom through various artistic mediums. He is also a Brehm Scholar in theology and film at Fuller Theological Seminary. He is married to Kathryn and they have two children, Ethan and Lucy Mae. On some weekends they can be found exploring Texas and beyond in their pop-up camper.

Deacon Erin Moniz loves to disciple and create content for emerging adults. As a chaplain at Baylor University, she is active in spiritual formation, mentoring, discipleship, and programming for young adults. She is the co-host for the Mutuality Matters podcast and a trained conciliator. She and her husband, Michael, were married in 2005 and ever since, have been blessed to care for young people and live out the testimony of God's sanctifying work in relationships. When they are not narrating the inner monologue of their two cats, Erin and Michael love to hike, camp, watch movies, and partake of local fare with friends. Find Erin on social media @erinfmoniz, and her personal website is erinfmoniz.com. Sign up for her newsletter on her site!

Learn more about Erin and Matthew and their church ministry by following @allsaintswaco on Instagram.

Other Reading

Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships

Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Communities

(Men & Women Leading Together) Creating Safe and Thriving Mixed-Gender Partnerships

The Unavoidable Link Between Patriarchal Theology and Spiritual Abuse

Theological Malpractice Stands Culpable in Sexual Abuse: Mitch Randall

Kingdom-Based Diversity: Embracing the Priesthood of All Believers

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, host Angela visits with Dr. Gabby Cudjoe-Wilkes to discuss how a justice imagination is necessary for people of color and everyone involved in the work of social justice as they navigate the daily realities that come with living in America. Gabby delves into how the Psalms provide a perfect expression of hope rooted and grounded in the faithfulness of God despite one’s current circumstances. She describes hope as an act of resistance as we imagine a future that aligns with God’s vision of kingdom life in this earthly realm.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Dr. Gabby Cudjoe-Wilkes is a pastor, leader, innovation strategist and author. She is a strategist by training and is the founding-co lead pastor of The Double Love Experience Church in Brooklyn, New York. Her work has been featured in Essence, Forbes, and The New York Times. She is the co-author of Psalms for Black Lives: Reflections for the Work of Liberation. Dr. Gabby holds a doctorate from Duke University, a master of divinity from Yale University, a master of arts from NYU, and a bachelor’s degree from Hampton University. She is the vice president of the Yale Divinity School Alumni Board and a member of the Morehouse College MLK Board of Preachers. Dr. Gabby is a proud member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority incorporated and is committed to the work of love and justice.

Connect with Dr. Gabby Cudjoe-Wilkes:

www.gabbycudjoewilkes.com

@PastorGabbyCWilkes (IG) & @GabbyCWilkes (Twitter).

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Show Notes 

What are the implications of assigning the male gender to God? If God isn’t male, then why do we call God “Father”? Blake & Erin speak with Dr. Amy Peeler about her new book, Women and the Gender of God. Listen as they discuss the significance of the incarnation, Mary, the Mother of Jesus, and much more! You can pick up her book here. Follow her on social media at @albpeeler and visit her website to learn more: https://amypeeler.com/

Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Bio 

Amy Peeler is associate professor of New Testament at Wheaton College and associate rector at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Geneva, Illinois. She is the author of You Are My Son: The Family of God in the Epistle to the Hebrews and the coauthor, with Patrick Gray, of Hebrews: An Introduction and Study Guide. Most recently, Dr. Peeler published her book Women and the Gender of God.

Other Reading   Imagining a Feminine God: Gendered Imagery in the Bible - CBE International

Vindicating the Vixens: Revisiting Sexualized, Vilified, and Marginalized Women of the Bible: Sandra Glahn: 9780825444135 - CBE International with Christianbook.com

Icons of Christ: A Biblical and Systematic Theology for Women's Ordination

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Show Notes

In this episode, Mimi and Kim discuss CBE’s partnerships in East Africa with Deborah Asio. Deborah, as CBE’s liaison and a partner herself, reveals how highlighting the women of Scripture as powerful examples inspires women and men in East Africa to champion equality and mutuality for the flourishing of all. This work takes on the practical challenges of women’s economics and illiteracy that enables abuse in a patriarchal society, by providing menstruation kits to girls so they can attend school, and by training up male champions of women’s equality.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Deborah Asio is an organizational development professional with NGO experience who oversees CBE’s Africa partner projects. Deborah represents CBE and actively looks for opportunities to expand CBE’s social impact with new partners. Deborah holds workshops to train pastors, gives reproductive health talks to build girls’ agency as made in God’s image, provides Bible-based psychosocial support to women in refugee camps, and conducts male ally/champion classes so they can become Bible-inspired change agents to advocate with other men to end injustices for girls and women.

Other Reading

CBE’s Still Side-by-Side, available in many languagesLearn more about CBE’s Partners in East Africa: Partnering in Africa - CBE International

Listen to “A Lie Long Planted: Unearthing the Deep Roots of Gender Based Injustice” by Medad Birungi

Listen to Mutuality Matters podcast interview with Emily Onyango to better understand the East African situation for girls and women.

Listen to Terran Williams on patriarchy in South Africa: (New Voices) How Complementarianism Just Makes No Sense with Terran Williams | Mutuality Matters (podbean.com)

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Show Notes

This month, Layla and Rob sit down with one of their favorite preachers, Beth Eckloff-Paz. Drawing on her eighteen years of ministry experience, Beth clearly describes the challenges she’s faced as a woman in ministry, she lays out a clear picture of what partnerships look like, and she casts a vision for how “the fullness of God is present in the both/and” of women and men partnering together. You’ll love learning from this bold and courageous leader!

Bio

Beth Eckloff-Paz has dedicated her life to mobilizing the next generation of leaders to live out the gospel and join God’s mission of justice and righteousness. She is currently pastoring college students and young adults at Lake Avenue Church in Pasadena, California.

Beth is a passionate communicator of the gospel and preaches at conferences and churches across the United States and internationally. She graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary with a Master of Divinity. During her time at Fuller, she received the 2018 Hooper–Keefe Preaching Award and the prestigious Parish Pulpit Fellowship (2019-2020) where she lived internationally in Guatemala and Albania. Beth also co-directs the PreacHER Academy, an online, synchronous, seminary-level learning experience. For more information and to apply for the next cohort, click here.

Beth has traveled to over thirty countries and served as a North American delegate for the Lausanne 2016 Younger Leaders Movement (YLG 2016). She enjoys coffee, gardening succulents, boxing, and reading. With eighteen years of full-time ministry experience, she continues to cultivate and build the kingdom of God with joy. See more of Beth’s story and listen to one of her sermons HERE.

Reach out to Beth at bethpaz.com or on Instagram @sojournerpaz

Other Reading

Better Together by Danielle Strickland

Together in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships

Leading Together: Lessons From Sharing Leadership in Ministry and Marriage

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Show Notes

Most would agree that organizational performance is often a reflection of the quality of leadership guiding the organization. Well, the same is true for ministry. Dr. Jeanne Porter King sits with host Angela and shares the importance of leadership in ecclesial spaces. Together, they explore how the spiritual gift of leading is manifested by both women and men, how race and gender impact the way believers show up as leaders, and the ways by which the gift of leadership can and should be developed.

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Bio

Dr. Jeanne Porter King is an author, business leader, inspirational teacher, speaker, ministry leader, and board-certified coach. She is the founder and president of TransPorter Group, Inc., a consulting practice specializing in leadership development, and diversity, equity, and inclusion strategy and training. Dr. Jeanne has developed leadership programs and has trained and coached leaders in twenty different countries. She also serves as the executive pastor of Christ Community Church in South Holland, Illinois.

Contact Information

Instagram: @drjeanneporterking

Twitter: @drjeannepking

Website: www.drjeanneporterking.com

Resources

Inspiring the Leader Within

https://jeanneporterking.com

The Paradox of Power: 7 Leadership Strategies in the Age of #ChurchToo How Can Churches Encourage Women Leaders?

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Disclaimer The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.  Show Notes CBE International’s Mutuality Magazine Winter Issue tackles the topic of Jesus and Women. To help us think deeply about this and how it affects our discipleship and reading of Scripture, Dr. Lynn Cohick comes on the podcast to talk with Erin and Blake. Bio Dr. Cohick presently serves as Provost and Dean of Academic Affairs of Northern Seminary in Lisle, Illinois. She teaches New Testament and is leading the development of DMin and MA programs in women's studies, and the Women's Center for Leadership at Northern Seminary. She has her bachelor’s degree from Messiah College, and a Ph.D. in New Testament and Christian Origins from the University of Pennsylvania. After 18 years as professor of New Testament and Biblical Studies at Wheaton College she accepted the invitation to join Denver Seminary as their Provost / Dean. Dr. Cohick has also taught at Messiah College and Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology. She is the author of Christian Women in the Patristic World: Their Influence, Authority, and Legacy in the Second Through Fifth Centuries, as well as Women in the World of the Earliest Christians, and commentaries on Phillipians and Ephesians among many other articles and publications. She contributed a chapter about Jesus and the Samaritan woman in Vindicating the Vixens: Revisiting Sexualized, Vilified, and Marginalized Women in the Bible. She enjoys preaching from the Bible, teaching on matters pertaining to women’s ministry, and exploring issues pertaining to the historical relationship between Jews and Christians.

Other Reading  Vindicating the Vixens: Revisiting Sexualized, Vilified, and Marginalized Women in the Bible.Christian Women in the Patristic World: Their Influence, Authority, and Legacy in the Second Through Fifth CenturiesThe Samaritan Woman's Story: Reconsidering John 4 After #ChurchTooCenter for Women and Leadership at Northern SeminaryAlabaster Jar Podcast

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In this second episode in a two-part interview of Mutuality Matters (Global Impact), Frankie Quirke explains how she became involved in Tearfund’s work with gender and equality and how it grew to include programs designed to minimize sexual and gender-based violence. She speaks of new initiatives and horizons that more fully include the whole family by sharing stories from the field that illustrate the work.

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Bio:

Francesca Quirke is Tearfund's sexual and gender-based violence program manager. Franky is passionate about the church championing gender justice and has been supporting Tearfund's work on preventing sexual and gender-based violence for seven years. Tearfund's “Transforming Masculinities” approach engages faith leaders and faith communities to shift harmful gender norms and create new equitable relationships and practices and is now being run in over seventeen countries. Francesca lives in Brighton in the UK and holds a masters in gender and international development from the London School of Economics and Political Science.  

Other Reading & Resources

1. Created To Thrive: Created Abuse-Gree Faith Communities, edited by Elizabeth Beyer.
2. CBE’s Ideas have Consequences Conference Recordings
3. The Headship of Men and the Abuse of Women: Are They Related in Any Way? By Kevin Giles
4. Tearfund podcast: Faith in Development-Season 2: Gender and Protection

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Disclaimer 

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers. 

Show Notes 

Join us this week on Mutuality Matters Rev. Tim Breen helps us consider how continual “one-degree adjustments” cultivate a culture of mutuality in the church. Tim also shares his personal journey toward egalitarianism, as well as helpful reflections on Scripture.    

Bio 

Rev. Tim Breen serves as the lead pastor of First Reformed Church in Orange City, a position he has held since 2010. Tim received his bachelor's from Northwestern College and his Master of Divinity from Western Theological Seminary. His ministry interests are preaching, church growth, intercultural learning, and staff and church administration. On Saturdays, you can find him cheering on his beloved Michigan Wolverines. 

Find Tim at www.telosblog.com, follow him at @tsbreen on Twitter.   

Other Reading  

3 Practical Changes Churches Can Make To Empower Women - CBE International 

How A Pastor and A Church Changed Their Stance on Women in Ministry - CBE International 

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Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Show Notes

As disciples striving to reflect the true nature of God through Christ, we must have courage to be different than most people in the world, including how we deal with racism. Michelle T. Sanchez, author of the newly released book, Color-Courageous Discipleship: Follow Jesus, Dismantle Racism, and Build Beloved Community, shares with Angela her belief that it is impossible to separate race, discipleship, and our relationship with God. Listen in as they discuss both the theological foundation for her assertion and the practical implications for how we live "color-courageously" daily, choosing to see color so that we can dismantle racism, pursue equity, and build beloved community.

To receive a sneak peek of Color-Courageous Discipleship: Follow Jesus, Dismantle Racism, and Build Beloved Community (first chapter) and God’s Beloved Community: A Picture Book (first few pages) text “courage” to 44144. Doing this will also subscribe you to receive more information and updates from Michelle T. Sanchez.

Bio

Michelle T. Sanchez, MDiv, ThM, is the senior discipleship and evangelism leader of the Evangelical Covenant Church, a vibrant multiethnic denomination of more than 875 congregations. Michelle completed seminary degrees at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary and spiritual direction training at Boston College. She is a conference speaker and a columnist with Outreach magazine. Michelle has enjoyed engaging with colorful cultures in over thirty countries and territories around the world. She and her husband, Mickey, live with their children in the Chicago area.

Other Reading and Resources:

“Color-Courageous Biblical Equality” at CBE’s 2022 International Conference in Atlanta, Georgia (Video)

Color-Courageous Discipleship: Follow Jesus, Dismantle Racism, and Build Beloved Community by Michelle T. Sanchez

Learn more about Michelle at https://michelletsanchez.com/

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Disclaimer

The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

Show Notes

Why are there not as many women ministers? Dr. Susan Harris Howell talks with hosts Blake and Erin about her work on the socialization of women and men. There are several variables that contribute to the diminishing of women, such as the gendered language we use daily without thought. In this episode, we learn what these variables are and how we can counter their effects. Be sure to pick up Dr. Howell’s book, “Buried Talents” at the CBE bookstore and visit her website to learn more: https://www.susanharrishowell.com/

Bio

Dr. Susan Harris Howell is a writer, speaker, and professor of Psychology, based in Central Kentucky. After graduating from Campbellsville College, she went on to the University of Louisville for her graduate work, receiving a Master of Education with an emphasis in marriage and family counseling and a Doctor of Education with an emphasis in counseling and development. She worked as a therapist before beginning her teaching career. She has written extensively on the topic of biblical gender equality. Dr. Howell teaches classes on gender studies and integrating faith and psychology at Campbellsville University in Kentucky. She is the author of Buried Talents: Overcoming Gendered Socialization to Answer God’s Call, as well as a number of articles about the importance of following our own gifts and calling rather than letting others dictate to us which pursuits are appropriate for women and men.

Other Reading

Buried Talents by Susan Harris Howell

The Desk: Four Lessons to Help Women Tackle the Impossible by Susan Harris Howell

No Longer Male and Female: Why Do We Still Separate by Gender in Church? by Vanessa Bickle

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Disclaimer  The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.    Show Notes  In this first episode of a two-part interview on Mutuality Matters, “Global Impact” thread, Frankie Quirke explains how Tearfund’s work grew to include programs designed to minimize sexual and gender-based violence in the home, church, and community.  Tearfund’s community-centered approach reduced the stigma experienced by survivors of rape and helped to make their churches places of safety and healing.  Furthermore, in a community atmosphere, it addressed poor theology that held men as superior to women, reflecting on sin and God’s intention for flourishing humanity in relationship with God, one another, and creation.  Bio  Francesca Quirke is Tearfund's sexual and gender-based violence program manager.   Franky is passionate about the church championing gender justice and has been supporting Tearfund's work on preventing sexual and gender-based violence for seven years. Tearfund's Transforming Masculinities approach engages faith leaders and faith communities to shift harmful gender norms and create new equitable relationships and practices and is now being run in over seventeen countries. Francesca lives in Brighton in the UK and holds a master's degree in gender and international development from the London School of Economics and Political Science.     Other Reading & Resources   1. Created To Thrive: Created Abuse-Gree Faith Communities, edited by Elizabeth Beyer.   2. CBE’s “Ideas have Consequences” Conference Recordings  3. The Headship of Men and the Abuse of Women: Are They Related in Any Way? By Kevin Giles   4. Tearfund podcast: Faith in Development-Season 2: Gender and Protection  

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In this special episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Layla and Rob interview three gender violence experts to learn how individuals and churches can be intentional about building safe and thriving mixed-gender ministry partnerships. Topics include the language of domestic violence, himpathy, why men batter, and practical steps for accountability and prevention in churches. Listen to this conversation that truly spanned the world, from Australia to the US to Great Britain, and learn how to prevent domestic violence within your community. Created to Thrive contributors highlighted in this episode are Natalie Collins, Chuck Derry, and Nicola (Nicky) Lock.

Guest Bios

• Natalie Collins is a gender justice specialist working with a number of organizations in the UK. Natalie speaks and writes on understanding and ending gender injustice nationally and internationally. Learn more at https://www.nataliecollins.info/

• Chuck Derry has been involved in efforts to end men’s violence against women since 1983. In 1994, he co-founded the Gender Violence Institute in Clearwater, Minnesota, an organization that among other things offers training on the dynamics of domestic violence. Reach Chuck at gvi@frontiernet.net.

• Nicola (Nicky) Lock serves as a course coordinator and lecturer in pastoral counseling at St. Mark's National Theological Center in Barton, Australia. Nicky has over 25 years of experience as a counselor, therapist, and educator. Find Nicky on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Other Reading

Created to Thrive

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The opinions expressed in CBE’s Mutuality Matters’ podcast are those of its hosts or guests and do not purport to reflect the opinions or views of CBE International or its members or chapters worldwide. The designations employed in this podcast and the presentation of content therein do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of CBE concerning the legal status of any country, area or territory or of its authorities, or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers.

In acknowledgment of October being Domestic Violence Awareness month, this special episode of Mutuality Matters features a panel of Created to Thrive contributors who sit down with host Angela and share their thoughts about how the church can help people find healing from the trauma of domestic violence by creating safe spaces for women and families. As leaders, we have an opportunity to preach, teach and model healthy relationships between women and men grounded in respect and mutuality that honors the image of God reflected by both. Guests on today’s episode include Dr. Antoinette Alvarado, Dr. Jeanne Porter-King, and Rev. Johnrice Newton.

Bio

Rev. Johnrice Newton, a trained RN chaplain, is the founder and president of Tapestry Ministries, Inc., a nonprofit organization that offers a myriad of programs and services including providing emergency resources for women affected by domestic abuse. She published her book in 2016 titled Healing Voices: Women of Faith Who Survived Abuse Speak Out, Volume 1.

Dr. Jeanne Porter King is the founder and president of TransPorter Group Inc., a consulting practice that specializes in leadership development, diversity and inclusion training, process facilitation, and influence coaching. She has authored many books including Influence Starts with “I”: A Woman’s Guide to Unleashing the Power of Leading from Within, and Effective Change Around You.

Dr. Antoinette Alvarado is the co-pastor of Grace Church International, founder and executive director of My Sister’s Keeper Foundation for Women, and president of Targeted Living Coaching & Consulting, LLC. A dynamic preacher, teacher, and workshop presenter, she is also the author of Run and Not be Weary: The Pursuit of Purpose and Destiny among several other titles.

Other Reading:

Created to Thrive: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/created-thrive-cultivating-abuse-free-communities/9781939971906/pd/971900?event=ESRCG

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Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussions on details pertaining to domestic violence. Listener discretion is advised. 

In this episode, hosts Erin and Blake talk with contributing authors, Rebecca Kotz and Annette Oltmans, about their chapters in the new CBE International publication, Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Communities. They discuss how forms of abuse are covert and easy to dismiss while also helping us understand how we can help and not be a fresh source of harm to victims of abuse. Leaders, friends, and those wanting to address abuse will learn a great deal from this episode.  

Be sure to pick up a copy of Created to Thrive and to connect with these other resources from our podcast guests: www.rebeccakotz.com and https://themendproject.com/.  

If you are experiencing domestic violence and would like help, contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. 

Bios: 

Rebecca Kotz is an advocate, speaker, community organizer, activist, liberation educator, consultant, and writer on sexual politics and feminism. She has worked at various social change and antiviolence organizations in Minnesota. She founded and facilitates a program for convicted male offenders, Men Accountable for Sexual Exploitation. She is currently finishing her master’s degree in social justice at Prescott College in Arizona. Find more of her work at www.rebeccakotz.com 

Annette Oltmans (Founder and chairman of the board of directors of the M3ND Project) is a philanthropist and passionate human rights advocate. She is a survivor. Annette’s personal experiences of recovery and extensive field research into the topics of Original Abuse and Double Abuse® ignited Annette’s passion to found The M3ND Project in 2016. She conceptualized the term Double Abuse® naming the behaviors causing complex trauma (CPTSD) to victim survivors. In addition to this work, she serves on the board of Pepperdine University’s Boone Center for the Family and is a trustee of Northrise University in Zambia. Her writing on the topics of abuse, domestic violence, and bullying, has been published in AACC, Teen Vogue, OC Register, and other publications. 

Other Reading:  

“Are We Continuing to Sideline Women in Conversations about Abuse?” by Katherine Spearing 

“He Made Her Play the Harlot: Judges 19 through the Lens of Domestic Abuse” by Evelyn Sweerts-Vermeulen 

“Monica of Hippo: Influential Church Mother and Domestic Abuse Survivor” by Olivia Brokaw 

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On this week’s episode, hosts Mimi and Kim meet with Pauline Hassan Burkey to discuss her journey towards belonging as an immigrant to the United States. As a small child she, her mother, and her baby brother made the journey from a Kenyan refugee camp to San Diego, California, where she first learned to relate to the various cultures in which she was immersed. She also reflects on her mother breaking the Sudanese cultural codes around a woman’s place. Despite criticism from the women in her community, she served as an advocate and community organizer for her refugee community in San Diego, often the only woman serving among all men. Her mother modeled for Pauline how women can be whomever they are meant to be.

Bio: Pauline is the daughter of South-Sudanese refugees who resettled in the United States in 1994. She grew up in City Heights, a densely populated and vibrant community of immigrants and refugees in East San Diego. She studied Interpersonal and Organizational Communications and Journalism at Azusa Pacific University. She’s worked with refugee and immigrant communities, then moved to fund programs across sub-Saharan Africa. In 2016, she and her husband moved to Rwanda to continue working in international development. She is back in the United States and works as a program manager for PICO California, the largest multi-faith community organizing non-profit in California. Pauline married her college sweetheart Kenny. They currently live in Sacramento and recently welcomed their first child.

Other Reading: 

Which Women Matter to God by Jill Lin https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/which-women-matter-god

Advocating for Equality Among the Marginalized by Nell Green

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/audio/advocating-equality-among-marginalized

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This month on the “Women and Men Leading Together” thread, hosts Layla and Rob speak with Bette Dickinson, an artist, and author who paints a beautiful picture of women and men partnering together in ministry, and of a church that listens to both the mother and father voices of God. Come learn from Bette as she exhorts us to systemic change, intentionally developing women, male advocacy, and elevating the stories of women.

Bio:

Bette Dickinson is a prophetic artist, writer, and speaker who invites audiences to connect with God through visual parables of the spiritual journey in her ministry Awakening the Soul. Bette earned her MDiv with an emphasis in pastoral studies and has worked with ministries like InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, World Vision, Infinitum, and Kensington Church to awaken the soul through beauty and wonder. Bette and her husband live in Traverse City, Michigan, with their two boys.

Further Reading:

Making Room in Advent by Bette Dickinson

https://www.ivpress.com/making-room-in-advent

More from Bette Dickinson: https://collegiateministries.intervarsity.org/profile/bette-dickinson

To subscribe to Bette’s newsletter and receive a copy of her painting of Mary’s Magnificat along with an audio reflection, text justice to 33777.

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On this episode of Mutuality Matters, host Angela sits down with Dr. Yolanda Pierce, dean of Howard University School of Divinity, and author of In My Grandmother’s House: Black Women, Faith, and the Stories We Inherit. Pierce lifts the role of church mothers in the Black church tradition, centering their experiences as they both taught and protected her so that as a Black woman she would survive in this world. Through them, she learned about, “The Divine who has been showing up at the kitchen tables of Black women for a long time.” Listen and learn how a grandmother’s theology carries wisdom strong enough for future generations. Disclaimer: sexual abuse and trauma are mentioned in this episode. Listener discretion is advised.

Further Reading:

In My Grandmother’s House Black Women, Faith, and the Stories We Inherit: https://www.amazon.com/My-Grandmothers-House-Stories-Inherit/dp/1506464718?tag=mochaglobal10-20&ascsubtag=srctok-b63e47f7a51c4734&btn_ref=srctok-b63e47f7a51c4734

Hell Without Fires: Slavery, Christianity, and the Antebellum Spiritual Narrative (History of African American Religions) https://www.amazon.com/Hell-Without-Fires-Christianity-African-American/dp/0813068592/ref=sr_1_1?crid=16ODZ9ZE394DV&keywords=Hell+without+Fires&qid=1663891253&s=books&sprefix=hell+without+fires%2Cstripbooks%2C92&sr=1-1’

Bio:

Yolanda Pierce is a professor and dean of Howard University School of Divinity. She is a scholar of African American religious history, womanist theology, race, and religion, as well as a public theologian, activist, and commentator. Pierce served as the founding director of the Center for the Study of African American Religious Life at the National Museum of African American History & Culture. Her writings have appeared in Time, Sojourners, and The Christian Century, and she is the author of the book Hell Without Fires. Pierce lives in Washington, D.C.

Web: yolandapierce.com

Twitter: @YNPierce

Facebook: /ynpierce

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On this week’s episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Blake and Erin bring on guest and author, Mallory Ellington, to talk about the fall issue of Mutuality Magazine, “The Problem of Porn: Women, Men, Intimacy, and the Church.” With Erin and Mallory both contributing articles to this issue, the three discuss pornography, patriarchy, and other orbiting topics that are addressed in the magazine. This episode mentions issues of porn addiction, sexual violence, and struggles with sexual sin. Listener discretion is advised.

Get a digital copy of the magazine here: https://www.cbeinternational.org/publication/mutuality-blog-magazine/current-print-issue

Bio 

Mallory Ellington is currently working as a prison GED instructor at Walker State Prison. She received her master of theological studies from Asbury Theological Seminary. She writes about the theology of the body, spiritual anthropology, and other topics that interest her. In her spare time, she loves sharing a cup of coffee with friends and chipping away at her ever-growing reading list.

Other Resources: “Women Are People, Too” by Mallory Ellington

“Preaching Porneia” by Matthew Norman

“Is This Safe to Drink? Thoughts on Our Thirst for Intimacy” by Erin Moniz

Read more from Mallory Ellington: https://www.malloryellington.com/

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On this episode of Mutuality Matters, hosts Mimi and Kim speak with Dr. Médine Moussounga Keener, coauthor of Impossible Love: The True Story of African Civil War, Miracles, Hope Against All Odds, Reconciliation for Africa, and Loved: Women Who Found Hope and Healing in Jesus. Médine believes that the Spirit of the Lord is at work in the world, and for those of us sensitive to the Spirit’s work, she shares how God can work in us to free people from oppression seen in sexism, racism, and classism. She illustrates the truth of these claims through stories from her own lived experience as a war refugee and scholar, as well as from her research and reflections shared by her many friends around the world.

Bio:

Dr. Médine Moussounga Keener (PhD, University of Paris) explores her life as a war-refugee, translator, scholar, author, and wife. Passionate about serving abused women in Africa, especially women at risk. Originally from Congo Brazzaville, Médine lived as a war refugee for eighteen months and worked as a translator first in Brazzaville and later in the US. Addressing her experiences of war and reconciliation, Médine has published articles in Dictionary of African Christian Biography, Africa Study Bible, and other articles on women in Africa. Medine coauthored with her husband, Dr. Craig S. Keener, Impossible Love: The True Story of an African Civil War, Miracles and Hope Against All Odds, a story of her war experience and her romance with her husband Craig. They also coauthored Reconciliation for Africa, a booklet on ethnic reconciliation currently used in many African countries. With Sue Russell, Médine co-authored Loved: Women Who Found Hope and Healing in Jesus.  

Other Reading

Mary Slessor of Calabar: Biography of a Christian Woman; A Scottish Presbyterian Missionary in Africa by W.P. Livingstone

Exclusion and Embrace: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation by Miroslav Volf

About William Shepherd: Among Kings: The Amazing Adventures of the Congo’s African American Livingstone and the Courageous People who Toppled King Leopold II by Joey O’Connor

Learn more about Hulda:

https://www.cbeinternational.org/content/women-scripture-and-mission#hulda

“Women Prophets in the Old Testament,” Priscilla Papers, by Christine Marchetti, April 29, 2018. https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/priscilla-papers-academic-journal/women-prophets-old-testament

“What is this Woman Doing Preaching in My Bible?” in Mutuality by Sara Ronnevik, October 13, 2014. https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/what-woman-doing-preaching-my-bible

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This month on the “Women and Men Leading Together” thread, Rob and Layla speak with Sarah Cowan Johnson, ministry leader, and recently published author of Teach Your Children Well. From navigating unconscious biases to dealing with miss-titling, from egalitarian parenting to The X-Files, Sarah sheds light on what flourishing mixed-gender partnerships look like, both in the context of ministry and in the home!

Bio:

Sarah Cowan Johnson is a ministry trainer, consultant, and coach who works with church planters, pastors, and ministry leaders across the United States. She leads seminars for parents on family discipleship to help their children walk in the way of Jesus. She served with the Evangelical Covenant Church as an executive pastor and previously was a staff trainer and an area director for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. She is the cohost of The People of the Way podcast. Her book, Teach Your Children Well, was published this month by InterVarsity Press, and she and her husband have two sons and live in Providence. Find more from Sarah at her website, sarahcowanjohnson.com.

Other Reading

The Spiritually Vibrant Home, by Don Everts

Call Me Mother in Anglican Compass by Tish Harrison Warren

“Parenting as Partners” by Kathy Nesper

“Created for Life Together: Partnerships Between Men and Women Are Part of God’s Design” by Ruth Haley Barton

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In this episode, host Angela sits down with Rev. Dr. Wilda Gafney, Bible scholar, episcopal priest and the Right Rev. Sam B. Hulsey Professor of Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas. They discuss the importance of gender expansive Bible translation, which incorporates contextual consideration and raises the presence of women and feminine imagery that have been traditionally overlooked or underrepresented. Focusing on her latest work, A Women’s Lectionary for the Whole Church: Year W, she discusses how using gender expansive language enriches the reading, hearing, and application of the Biblical text. This lectionary also focuses on using explicit feminine God-language as a means of expanding our view and understanding of God. Words matter because they have the power to create or eliminate barriers to inclusion.  

Guest Bio:   Womanist biblical scholar, Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney is the Right Rev. Sam B. Hulsey Professor of Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas. She is the author of Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to Women of the Torah and of the Throne, a commentary on Nahum, Habakkuk, and Zephaniah in the Wisdom series; Daughters of Miriam: Women Prophets in Ancient Israel; and co-editor of The Peoples’ Bible and The Peoples’ Companion to the Bible. She is the author of a Women’s Lectionary for the Whole Church and translator of its biblical selections; the first two volumes, Year A and W (a standalone volume) were published in August. Volumes B and C are due in 2023 and 2024. She is currently writing a second volume of Womanist Midrash focusing on women in the Prophets. 

Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney can be followed at www.wilgafney.com.  

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wil.gafney    

Twitter: @WilGafney 

Resources:  

A Women’s Lectionary for the Whole Church: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/womens-lectionary-the-whole-church-year/9781640651623/pd/65162X?event=ESRCG 

Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to the Women of the Torah and the Throne: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/womanist-midrash-reintroduction-women-torah-throne/wilda-gafney/9780664239039/pd/239039?event=ESRCG 

“She Is in Bitter Distress”: A Womanist Ethic of Advocacy: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/she-bitter-distress-womanist-ethic-advocacy 

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Women in higher education must navigate a world that is not regularly friendly to them as mothers or as experts in their disciplines. When these professionals are in Christian universities, there are problems that emerge which require greater scrutiny of claims to be “family-friendly,” and how we treat female professors. Dr. Deshonna Collier-Goubil is the co-editor for Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy, which is a multi-authored collection from Christian women in higher-ed. Enjoy learning about why this book and these intersections are important for women and those of us who operate outside of higher-ed. Christians have an opportunity to re-shape cultural spaces that do not prioritize Christian values and learning from these contributors is a significant start.

Pick up your copy of Power Women here: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/power-women-stories-motherhood-faith-academy/9780830853069/pd/853069?event=ESRCG

Bio 

Dr. Deshonna Collier-Goubil, is the interim dean for the School of Behavioral and Applied Sciences at Azusa Pacific University. She has a holistic perspective of the criminal justice system, those who interact with the system (victims, offenders, communities), and the challenges the criminal justice system faces in today’s rapidly changing climate. Collier encourages her students to think critically and ethically about the criminal justice system, challenging them to study the system from differing perspectives while maintaining a core principle of integrating their faith with their career goals. Her research interests include race and crime, gender and crime, and prisoner re-entry. She has a PhD from Howard University in Sociology with a Concentration in Criminology, Race, Class, & Gender Relations. Her dissertation is titled, “A Spatial Analysis of the Effects of Neighborhood Deprivation and Foreclosures on Domestic Violence.” She has also served as a fellow for the National Institute of Justice and the College Board as a Social Justice Fellow. She is a co-editor of the book, Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy.

Other Reading: 

Power Women: Stories of Motherhood, Faith, and the Academy

Nancy Wang Yuen and Deshonna Collier-Goubil, eds.

“Watershed Moments? Reexamining the Barriers Facing Women in the US and UK Church” by Katie Christine Gaddini

“The Workaholic Mom?” by Susan Harris Howell

“Brokering Peace: Egalitarian Theology Meets the ‘Mommy Wars’” by Sa

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Scott Arbeiter brings enormous wisdom to our conversation on the global impact of egalitarian theology and human flourishing. From Scott’s examination of theological and social obstacles to his critique of organizational leadership and Jesus-style methods of evangelism, he vividly presented the ways that patriarchal practices can be dismantled through the lens of human flourishing. He provided powerful examples of practices that foster human flourishing by beginning with valuing girls and women as God’s image bearers! Like the United Nations Concept Note: 2021 Room 5, Scott also embraces people of faith as essential advocates of women’s equality in creating a safer and more just world. In concluding, Scott addressed abuse among Christians, a topic he addresses in his foreword to Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities.

Trigger Warning: This episode mentions circumstances of abuse and infant death.

Bio: Scott Arbeiter has served in some truly inspiring leadership positions, including seventeen years as a partner with Arthur Anderson to Lead Pastor Elmbrook Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and acted is the former president of World Relief, an international Christian nonprofit organization that empowers the local church to serve the most vulnerable. Scott has also served on World Relief’s board of directors for nearly a decade. In August 2021 he retired as World Relief’s president.

Reading and Resources:

Elizabeth Beyer, editor. Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities. CBE International: 2021.

Learn more about world relief at https://worldrelief.org/.

Listen to the audio of Nell Green: “Advocating for Equality Among the Marginalized”

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On this episode of Mutuality Matters: Women & Men Leading Together, hosts Layla and Rob learn from Drs. Quentin and Cindy Kinnison. Listen as the Kinnisons share how they have overcome barriers on their journeys toward a conviction that power is meant to be shared between women and men. They give us a window into what flourishing mixed-gender ministry partnerships can look like in academia and cast a vision for living as the beloved community of God.  

Bio  

Dr. Quentin Kinnison is an Associate Professor of Christian Ministry & Leadership and the Program Director for Christian Ministry & Leadership at Fresno Pacific University 

Dr. Cynthia Kinnison is Adjunct Faculty and the Christian Ministry & Leadership Internship Supervisor at Fresno Pacific University 

Other Reading:     How to Use Male Privilege to Create Space and Opportunities for Women in Churches:  https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/how-use-male-privilege-create-space-and-opportunities 

Created for Community and Mutuality: Created for Community and Mutuality | CBE (cbeinternational.org) 

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Angela visits with Dr. Christy Woodbury-Moore, assistant professor of spiritual formation at Memphis Theological Seminary, as they discuss the responsibility of those with a seat at the table to embrace and include others. They also discuss how embracing one's personal narrative further empowers one to stand in such places to be vehicles of justice, restoration, and wholeness. So, come have a seat at the table and listen in!

Bio:

Rev. Dr. Christy S. Woodbury-Moore is a native of Jackson, Mississippi. She attended Tuskegee University where she graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering. She also holds an MBA from the University of Minnesota-Carlson School of Management. Rev. Dr. Woodbury-Moore received a Master of Divinity degree and holds a Doctor of Ministry degree from Virginia Union University with a focus on the unique experiences of African American women. She currently serves as the assistant professor of spiritual formation and the director of supervised ministry at Memphis Theological Seminary.

Dr. Woodbury-Moore has a heart for African American women and the black community. Her dissertation, titled, “Give Me My Stuff: In Defense of Black Womanhood,” is a womanist exploration of the ways black women’s voices and experiences have been minimized in an effort to empower them to see the value in their own stories. She also serves on the board of Equity for Women in the Church, an ecumenical organization advocating for the representation of women’s key leadership roles in the church.

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In his new book, How God Sees Women, author and pastor, Terran Williams gives an extensive guide to navigating complementarian arguments against the inclusion of women. In this episode, Blake and Erin give listeners a preview of why this complementarian-turned-mutualist pastor is a wonderful resource for how Scripture and Christ see and empower women. Listen as he shares how complementarianism deeply impacts women in his own context of South Africa and all over the world and why that needs to change. You can find his book here: https://www.amazon.com/How-God-Sees-Women-Patriarchy/dp/B09QF82C23

Bio

After a decade of leading the preaching team and sermon content creation of a vibrant church, as it grew into the thousands, Terran Williams has now taken full time to writing books and creating video journeys to serve the wider church and world. He authored Biblica’s Reach4Life youth bible—with a print of two million in 30 languages. A seasoned church planter, he also created an intensive two-year church planter course that rolled out in the US, the UK and South Africa. Avid surfer, father of five and coffee-lover, his other passion is, for skeptics and believers alike, building a bridge from God’s Word to your world. 

Other Reading:

How God Sees Women by Terran Williams: https://www.amazon.com/How-God-Sees-Women-Patriarchy/dp/B09QF82C23

Men and Women in Christ: Adjudicating the Complementarian-Egalitarian Debate by Andrew Bartlett: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/women-christ-adjudicating-complementarian-egalitarian-debate/andrew-bartlett/9781783599172/pd/599172?event=ESRCN|M

Spoiling the Beautiful Difference by Ian Paul and Andrew Bartlett: https://www.psephizo.com/biblical-studies/spoiling-the-beautiful-difference/

Book Review on How God Sees Women: The End of Patriarchy: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/book-review/how-god-sees-women-end-patriarchy

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This week on the Global Impact thread, hosts Mimi and Kim speak with Prabu Deepan, Tearfund’s Regional Director for Asia, who has over fourteen years of experience confronting Gender-Based Violence (GBV), HIV, and more. Listen as Prabu shares his own story of abuse as an ethnic minority youth and how his journey is bringing others to light. Learn about the statistical outcomes of decreasing Gender-Based Violence (GBV) throughout Asia and of the many stories of men and youth. Prabu has seen transformed through the model of Jesus Christ. Significantly for Prabu, what is most needed in upending GBV are leaders who model the transformation they teach as Jesus did!   

Guest Bio: Prabu Deepan is Tearfund's regional director for Asia, leading holistic relief and development across Asia. He has over fourteen years of experience on issues like HIV, gender, and Gender-Based Violence, especially with youth and community mobilization. Leading Tearfund’s gender and protection globally as a gender specialist, Prabu co-created their evidence-based transforming masculinities intervention in twelve countries with related resources in ten languages! Prabu has been part of a UN multi-country study on men and violence in Asia and the Pacific. Prabu addressed the impact of Christian patriarchy at a recent CBE Event. 

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:     Exploring the Humanitarian Impacts of Theological Patriarchy: https://youtu.be/fGW3OgvoDZU 

Other Resources:  

Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities: https://www.cbeinternational.org/content/created-thrive 

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Join hosts Layla and Rob as they speak with Matt and Bekah Meyer as they share about their partnership as a married couple on staff with InterVarsity Link serving in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina. The Meyers invite us into the dynamics of working in a patriarchal, cross-cultural context while holding an egalitarian conviction. How do they make that work practically? Listen to find out! 

Bio 

Matt and Bekah Meyer have been partnering together in ministry as a married couple for more than 10 years. Currently, they serve with InterVarsity Link in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, where they are raising their two amazing daughters, Hannah and Junia. In addition, Matt is a second-year PhD student in New Testament at the University of Aberdeen. 

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In this week’s episode, host Angela continues her visit with Rev. Michelle D. Williams, co-author of Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations. They discuss how the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion fits into God’s divine plan for reconciliation. Learn as Michelle shares practical insights on how to care for yourself in the midst of bridge-building. Rev. Williams can be reached at https://www.shalomconsultants.com/ or www.diversity-playbook.com.   

Bio 

Rev. Michelle D. Williams, MTS, CDE, is a writer, speaker, preacher, and entrepreneur. For over 20 years Rev. Williams has worked with people during some of the most formative and stressful seasons of life. Beginning as a social worker with at-risk populations; serving as a pastor walking through life's transitions; working as an advisor/mentor to undergraduate college students (Anderson University); navigating tumultuous racial/cultural conflicts, and most recently as a dean at a graduate seminary (Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary). Having served in various pastoral ministry roles, Rev. Michelle appreciates the legacy of Godly women and men in her family that have richly impacted her life and ministry. Whether it is within a church setting or within the hallowed halls of academia, shepherding people, programs, and policies requires wisdom and grace. These two attributes are the cornerstone of Michelle’s leadership approach. Rev. Williams is co-author of "Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations." She is a Certified Diversity Executive and CEO of Shalom Consultants 

Further Reading:    The Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations:  Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations: Michelle R. Loyd-Paige, Michelle D. Williams: 9781684263714 - CBE International with Christianbook.com    Confronting Wonder Women Syndrome: Female Pastors and the Pandemic: Confronting Wonder Woman Syndrome: Female Pastors and the Pandemic | CBE (cbeinternational.org)    How to Build Bridges: 4 Strategies for Reconciliation: How to Build Bridges: 4 Strategies for Racial Reconciliation | CBE (cbeinternational.org)    Women in Ministry, Reclaim Your Time!: Women in Ministry, Reclaim Your Time! | CBE (cbeinternational.org)    Who Is Pulling Your Strings? Wisdom for Clergy and Leaders:  Who Is Pulling Your Strings? Wisdom for Women Clergy and Leaders | CBE (cbeinternational.org)    On Being an Ally:   Beyond Hashtag Activism: Compressive Justice in a Complicated Age: Beyond Hashtag Activism: Comprehensive Justice in a Complicated Age | CBE (cbeinternational.org) 

Speaking of Justice: 10 Terms Christian Gender Justice Advocates Should Know: Speaking of Justice: 10 Terms Christian Gender Justice Advocates Should Know | CBE (cbeinternational.org) 

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On this week’s podcast, hosts Erin and Blake give a sneak peak of CBE’s upcoming conference, “Exploring the Fullness of Galatians 3:28”, and the summer issue of Mutuality Magazine. Listen as they give their initial thoughts on the issue that addresses topics such as, do egalitarians take Galatians 3:28 too far and cheapen the Gospel? How does Galatians 3:28 shape our identity as adopted children of God? And much more! 

Read the Issue Digitally at CBE’s Website: https://www.cbeinternational.org/publication/mutuality-blog-magazine/current-print-issue 

Conference Website: https://www.cbeinternational.org/content/cbes-2022-international-conference 

Keynotes and Workshops: https://www.cbeinternational.org/content/conference-speakers 

Conference Scholarships: https://www.cbeinternational.org/content/conference-scholarships 

Conference Sponsorships: https://www.cbeinternational.org/content/sponsors-and-exhibitors 

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On this week’s podcast, hosts Mimi & Kim speak with Katherine Marshall, a distinguished humanitarian. Katherine’s vast humanitarian experience worldwide infuses wisdom into conversations on the complex puzzles of religion as it hinders or furthers women’s equality and human flourishing. Marshall cites personal stories and those from the field to illustrate, from her perspective, the ways humanitarians handle faith and faith actors in raising the status of women and girls which improves life for their entire community.

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In this episode, hosts Layla and Rob talk with Rev. Liz Testa, coordinator for Women’s Transformation and Leadership with the Reformed Church of America (RCA), who shares her own experiences building mutual partnerships between women and men. She gives practical insight into the struggles churches currently face and offers biblical advice for how women and men in church leadership can move forward together towards unity. Listen as she casts an inspiring vision for churches welcoming everyone to the table and celebrating the diversity of gifts that God has placed in a community.

Bio

REV. ELIZABETH (LIZ) TESTA, M.DIV is a pastor, ministry executive, community builder and sister in Christ, who is passionate about biblical hospitality, multi-cultural worship arts and encouraging others to embrace their God-given gifts and callings. Since 2014, she has served the Reformed Church in America (RCA) as the visionary leader for Women’s Transformation and Leadership and Equity-Based Hospitality. Liz and her team encourage, equip, and empower women of all backgrounds and callings, and equip diverse faith communities to do the same and intentionally create healthy environments where mixed-gender ministry partnerships can flourish and thrive. 

Prior to joining the RCA, Rev. Testa spent 12 years on staff at Marble Collegiate Church in NYC. Her first career was as a professional actress and spokesperson, and she delights at how God uses those experiences to enhance her calling in ministry. Rev. Testa holds a BFA in Drama from Syracuse University and an M.Div from Drew Theological School in Madison, NJ.  She is on the Board of Trustees of New Brunswick Theological Seminary and the South Orange/Maplewood Community Coalition on Race. Raised bi-culturally in New York and Spain, Liz loves travel, international cuisines and culture, and is a natural bridge builder across diverse contexts. Her family includes her husband of 25 years, Nick, a NYC high school teacher and daughters Sofia, a psychology student at University of London, Goldsmith’s College and Juliette, a high school junior and softball player. 

For more info, contact women@rca.org

Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Building God’s Church Together Bible Study: https://learn.faithward.org/courses/building-gods-church-together-bible-study

She is Called: Women of the Bible Study Series: https://www.faithward.org/women-of-the-bible-study-series/

Lavish Hope Podcast: https://www.faithward.org/lavish-hope-podcast/

Other Reading:

As you’ll hear in the episode, Liz exhorts men to “do their work” on their gender brokenness and uncovering their unconscious biases. We’ll recommend these resources:

• Man Enough by Nate Pyle

• Malestrom by Carolyn Custis James

• Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes du Mez

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In this week’s episode, host Angela visits with Rev. Michelle D. Williams, co-author of Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations. They discuss how the work of diversity, equity, and inclusion fits into God’s divine plan for reconciliation. Learn as Michelle shares her own experience within the church as a daughter and a survivor, and how God used painful experiences to shape her into someone who leads others into the diverse body of Christ. Rev. Williams can be reached at https://www.shalomconsultants.com/ or www.diversity-playbook.com.   

Bio 

Rev. Michelle D. Williams, MTS, CDE, is a writer, speaker, preacher, and entrepreneur. For over 20 years Rev. Williams has worked with people during some of the most formative and stressful seasons of life. Beginning as a social worker with at-risk populations; serving as a pastor walking through life's transitions; working as an advisor/mentor to undergraduate college students (Anderson University); navigating tumultuous racial/cultural conflicts, and most recently as a dean at a graduate seminary (Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary). Having served in various pastoral ministry roles, Rev. Michelle appreciates the legacy of Godly women and men in her family that have richly impacted her life and ministry. Whether it is within a church setting or within the hallowed halls of academia, shepherding people, programs, and policies requires wisdom and grace. These two attributes are the cornerstone of Michelle’s leadership approach. Rev. Williams is co-author of "Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations." She is a Certified Diversity Executive and CEO of Shalom Consultants 

Further Reading:    The Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations:   Diversity Playbook: Recommendations and Guidance for Christian Organizations: Michelle R. Loyd-Paige, Michelle D. Williams: 9781684263714 - CBE International with Christianbook.com    Confronting Wonder Women Syndrome: Female Pastors and the Pandemic: Confronting Wonder Woman Syndrome: Female Pastors and the Pandemic | CBE (cbeinternational.org)    How to Build Bridges: 4 Strategies for Reconciliation: How to Build Bridges: 4 Strategies for Racial Reconciliation | CBE (cbeinternational.org)    Women in Ministry, Reclaim Your Time!: Women in Ministry, Reclaim Your Time! | CBE (cbeinternational.org)    Who Is Pulling Your Strings? Wisdom for Clergy and Leaders:  Who Is Pulling Your Strings? Wisdom for Women Clergy and Leaders | CBE (cbeinternational.org)   

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When was the last time you read a book that told your story through the personal story of the author? Add in biblical scholarship, intersectionality, decolonization, history, and current events and you have Kat Armas’ book, Abuelita Faith. In this episode, Blake and Erin have a lively discussion with Kat Armas about the “protagonistas” in Scripture, history, and Armas’ own family who help us see a God who loves us and is revealed through the lived theology of women of color, indigenous voices, and cultural diversity.

Be sure to check out Abuelita Faith: What Women on the Margins Teach Us about Wisdom, Persistence, and Strength (just released in Spanish!)

Follow her on social media: @kat_armas

Subscribe to her newsletter from her website: https://katarmas.com/

Listen to her podcast, The Protagonistas: https://katarmas.com/theprotagonistaspodcast

Bio

Kat Armas is a Cuban American writer and podcaster from Miami, FL. She holds a dual MDiv and MAT from Fuller Theological Seminary, where she was awarded the Frederick Buechner Award for Excellence in Writing, and is currently pursuing a ThM at Vanderbilt Divinity School. https://www.cbeinternational.org/persons/kat-armas

Her first book, Abuelita Faith: What Women on the Margins Teach Us About Wisdom, Persistence and Strength, sits at the intersection of women, decolonialism, the Bible, and Cuban identity. She also explores these topics and more on her podcast, The Protagonistas, which centers the voices of Black, Indigenous, and other women of color in theological spaces.

Other Reading:

YHWH and Marginalization: Israel’s Widows and Abuelita Theology: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/priscilla-papers-academic-journal/yhwh-and-marginalization-israels-widows-and

3 Simple Rules for Egalitarian Couples: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/3-simple-rules-egalitarian-couples

Priscilla and Aquila Model Marriage: “More Accurately”: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/priscilla-and-aquila-model-marriage-more-accurately

Is Complementarian Interpretation of 1 Corinthians 14 Consistent with Practice?: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/complementarian-interpretation-1-corinthians-14-consistent

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This week on the Global Impact Thread, hosts Mimi and Kim interview Dr. Aletta Bell about her lifelong medical work in North India.  They discuss the unique opportunities that allowed her to become one of four women in her medical school graduating class of 60, and her Arabia experiences that revealed the need for women to provide medical care to Muslim women. You will hear about how she established a hospital in North India, passed leadership onto Indian Christians of the newly formed Emmanuel Hospital Association, began a pioneering work of Community Health and Development to reach the root causes of disease in North India, and inspired others to follow in her footsteps. 

Within the interview you will hear references to:  

Emmanuel Hospital Association https://eha-health.org/  

Vellore Christian Medical College https://www.cmch-vellore.edu/, and 

Dr. Ida Scudder’s Biography in Dr. Ida by Dorothy Clarke Wilson     

Dr. Aletta Bell, a Canadian, has devoted her life to medical work in North India.  One of four women in her medical class of sixty, she identified a healthcare gap for Muslim women. In 1964 she established a women and children’s hospital in rural North India, in an underserved Muslim population. Later she handed the hospital over to Emmanuel Hospital Association (EHA), where she continued to serve in leadership roles. Now, in her 80’s, she is sharing her life stories, with a biography soon to be released. 

Other Reading: 

Listen to this podcast to more fully understand the health issues of women in “India: Public Health and Women’s Equality in the Church” https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/audio/global-impact-public-health-and-womens-equality-church

Read about other brave women doctors who overcame serious life obstacles to learn and serve others in “Our Heritage Part 4”: https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/our-heritage-part-4 

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In this episode, hosts Layla and Rob speak with Kim and Andrew Feil about their journeys to mutuality. In-laws Kim and Andrew Feil have each been on a journey of understanding the Bible’s message of gender equality through a combination of deep Bible study and lived experience. More than that, their journeys have intertwined together in a compelling way. Listen as they tell Layla and Rob about those journeys, the struggles they faced, and where they ended up. Don’t miss the end of the episode, where Andrew and Kim share prophetic words about how the church needs to change to better reflect God’s heart for equality.

Kim Feil resides in Fresno, California, and she actually loves living there! She is the mother of two children and the wife to an amazing guy for almost 13 years. Kim is passionate about the empowerment of women and seeing them become who God created them to be. Her daytime job is working at the local community hospital as a lactation specialist. She is also a volunteer, working with survivors of human trafficking.

Email: kimberlyruth.feil@gmail.com

Andrew Feil is a father of four boys and is married to Denise Feil. Andrew is the current Associate Director at Every Neighborhood Partnership which seeks to connect churches to serving at elementary schools in one of California's most challenged districts. Andrew is a former Missions Pastor at The Well Community Church and has a master’s in Social and Civic Entrepreneurship from Bakke Graduate University.

Twitter: @andrewsfeil

Email: andrew@everyneighborhood.org

Other Reading

• Jesus Feminist by Sarah Bessy: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/jesus-feminist-sarah-bessey/9781476717258/pd/717258?event=ESRCG

• The Blue Parakeet by Scot McKnight: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/parakeet-rethinking-read-bible-second-edition/scot-mcknight/9780310538929/pd/538929?event=ESRCQ

• How I Changed My Mind About Women in Leadership by Alan F. Johnson (Ed.) https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/leadership-compelling-prominent-evangelicals-unabridged-audiobook/9780310577478/pd/DA14789-CP?event=ESRCG

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters, Angela chats with Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson, the John Hines Assistant Professor of Preaching at the Seminary of the Southwest in Austin, TX. Dr. Robinson shares her current research in mental health and bible interpretation, particularly in light of the traumatic psychological impact of the COVID pandemic within the Black community and the Black church.

Disclaimer: This episode discusses instances of depression and suicide. If you are thinking about harming yourself or taking your own life, we encourage you to reach out to someone – a friend, a church, or a family member. You can also call 1-800-273-8255 at any time to speak with a trained counselor.

Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson is a millennial Womanist homiletician and justice advocate who answered her call to ministry at the age of thirteen. Dominique earned a Bachelor of Arts in Government from Georgetown University, a Master of Divinity and a Master of Theology both from Candler School of Theology. She earned a Doctor of Ministry degree from Columbia Theological Seminary in Gospel and Culture. Her dissertation, "iHomiletic™: Preaching that Clicks," is a groundbreaking research and consulting service to assist faith leaders with developing impactful ministry that employs technology and social media linguistics. She currently is a Ph.D. student at Christian Theological Seminary in the African American Preaching and Sacred Rhetoric Ph.D. program.

Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson is the John Hines Assistant Professor of Preaching at the Seminary of the Southwest in Austin, TX.

Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson is an ordained itinerant elder in the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church and a member of the illustrious Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated.

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Do you ever read Old Testament passages about women and wonder if God is truly for women? Are all the Bible commentaries you find written by men? Hosts Erin and Blake sit down with Dr. Lissa Wray Beal and discuss her articles and commentaries and how they are redeeming the stories of and bringing the women of the Old Testament to their important place in the biblical narrative. In this episode, we touch on: the topic of lament in the women of Jeremiah; what we get wrong about Ruth and Naomi; and the fascinating story of the five daughters of Zelophehad. If you’ve ever avoided the Old Testament because of how it seems to portray women, then this episode is for you!

Bio

Rev. Dr. Lissa M. Wray Beal is a Professor of Old Testament at Providence Theological Seminary, where she has taught since 2004. She is also a priest in the Diocese of Rupert’s Land in the Anglican Church of Canada, serving as an honorary assistant in a local parish. Dr. Wray Beal completed a BTh at Northwest Bible College and an MDiv at Taylor Seminary (both in Edmonton) before completing her PhD at the Toronto School of Theology at Wycliffe College.

Dr. Wray Beal’s work focuses on Joshua - Kings, Jeremiah and the Psalter, exploring their literary, historical and theological dimensions. She teaches the Old Testament as a witness to God’s character, and as preparatory for Christ.

Look for these upcoming projects:

• Jeremiah. Baker Commentary on the Old Testament: Prophets. Under Contract.

• The Book of Ruth in The Bible in God's World Commentary. Cascade Publishing. Under Contract.

• 1-2 Samuel. Baker Commentary on the Old Testament: Historical Books. Under Contract

Other Reading

• "'Call for the Mourning Women': Women's Songs of Lament in Jeremiah" for Evangelicals and Women Section of the Evangelical Theological Society Annual Meeting, November 2021.

• The Story of God Bible Commentary: Joshua

• The Bible in God’s Word (Series)

• Center for the Study of Bible and Violence

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Listen to hosts, Mimi and Kim as they interview Rt. Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango in the Global Impact thread. Emily’s deep humility and focus on leadership as service versus power was profoundly evident in her life and vocation. Modeling herself after her Sunday School teacher, Emily remains deeply committed to girls, women, and youth. Emily models the confidence of Christian women, which she also celebrates in the women leaders of the East African Revivals in her book, Gender and Development: A History of Women’s Education in Kenya.

As Bishop in her community, Emily takes on the role of grandparents who nurture youth spiritually, socially, educationally, and economically. She reminds her community that while they lack economic wealth, God has given them great joy in their relationships.

Emily discusses her joy both in serving beside the male bishops, but especially in in serving with the second woman bishop Rt. Rev. Rose Okeno ordained shortly after Emily. She speaks of their sister alliance that gently reminds their brother bishops they are now joined by sister bishops in God’s work.

Bio

Last year Rt. Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango was ordained as the first woman bishop in the Anglican Church of Kenya. She serves as senior lecturer and dean of students at St. Paul’s University in Limuru, Kenya. She earned a PhD from the University of Wales, a ThM from the Asian Center for Theological Studies and Mission in Seoul, South Korea, and a BD from St. Paul’s University, Limuru. She is the author of Gender and Development: A History of Women’s Education in Kenya

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In this episode, we are joined by our friend Eddy Ekmekji. Eddy serves as a pastor in Southern California and he helps us think about how to guide a community through the disciple-making process. If you’re in a faith community where your egalitarian conviction can struggle to be expressed fully, this is the episode for you!

Bio:

Eddy Ekmekji has served with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship since 1998, ministering in a variety of roles and on a diversity of campuses. Currently, he is the Regional Ministry Director in Greater Los Angeles. In addition to the work with InterVarsity, Eddy also serves part-time as the lead pastor of As You Are Missionary Church in Reseda, CA. 

Eddy is married to Rhoda, and dad to Layla (16), Marco (14), and Liam (9). He loves roasting his own coffee beans, making his own hot sauce, and coaching a local BU14 soccer team. You can find him on twitter, @eddyekmekji.

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In this episode, part 1 of Angela’s discussion with Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson, Dr. Robinson shares her firsthand experiences with intersectionality in her own ministry journey, which started when she was 13 years old. She discusses her childhood, being brought up in a church founded and pastored by her grandmother. She also details her decision to leave her family’s church as a teenager in search of her own theology and beliefs.

Bio

The Rev. Dr. Dominique A. Robinson, is a millennial, Womanist preacher and justice advocate who answered her call to ministry at the age of 13. Dominique earned her Bachelor of Arts in Government from Georgetown University, a Master of Divinity, and a Master of Theology both from Candler School of Theology. She earned a Doctor of Ministry degree from Columbia Theological Seminary in Gospel and Culture. Her dissertation, "iHomiletic™: Preaching that Clicks," is a groundbreaking research and consulting service to assist faith leaders with developing impactful ministry that employs technology and social media linguistics. She currently is a doctoral student at Christian Theological Seminary in the African American Preaching and Sacred Rhetoric Ph.D. program.

Dr. Robinson is the John Hines Assistant Professor of Preaching at the Seminary of the Southwest in Austin, TX. She is an ordained itinerant elder in the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church and a member of the illustrious Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated.

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In this episode, Erin & Blake discuss the latest issue of Mutuality Magazine that is all about motherhood. This is a very special issue with many contributing authors that tackle a range of topics related to motherhood. Don’t let the topic fool you! This issue AND this episode are not just for mothers (and Blake and Erin will tell you why). You might be surprised with our guest author on this episode, but you won’t want to miss out on what they have to say.

BIO

Blake Dean serves as community outreach and communications manager for The Davies Shelters in Rome, GA. In this role, he actively promotes, engages, and educates the community about the immediate needs of their most vulnerable neighbors, while encouraging them to give self-sacrificially for the just futures of those in poverty. He is passionate about gender theology, justice, poverty relief, and the church catholic. He received his Bachelor's of Arts in Religion & Philosophy from Berry College and intends to continue his education in the coming years.

Blake is co-host of CBE International’s Mutuality Matters podcast segment, “New Voices: The Latest Conversation on an Age-Old Struggle.”

Further Reading and Resources:

“Motherhood” in Mutuality Magazine: https://www.cbeinternational.org/publication/mutuality-blog-magazine/current-print-issue

S2 E7: Gender Can’t Capture God (Podcast episode with Natalie Carnes): https://mutualitymatters.podbean.com/e/s2-e6-gender-cant-capture-god/

Motherhood: A Confession by Natalie Carnes: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/motherhood-a-confession-natalie-carnes/9781503608313/pd/608311?event=ESRCG

Scars Across Humanity: Understanding and Overcoming Violence against Women by Elaine Storkey: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/across-humanity-understanding-overcoming-violence-against/elaine-storkey/9780830852048/pd/852048?event=ESRCG

Holding Up Half the Sky by Graham Joseph Hill: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/holding-up-half-the-sky/graham-hill/9781532686122/pd/686121?event=ESRCG

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In this episode of Mutuality Matters Grace Al-Zoughbi celebrates how God inspired her calling as a theologian not only by the support she received from her loving Christian parents, but also through her church community and via her husband’s affirmation. She describes the living faith of her Christian community in Palestine, one that stands in continuity with the early Christians. As a theologian and professor, Grace has a deep passion to recover and celebrate the contributions of Christian women leaders throughout history, particularly in her region of the world. Moreover, Grace has a profound commitment for women students from the Arab world in whom she sees enormous strength of character, vision, and promise—God's gifts for a better future for the church and region. Working to see their gifts welcomed not only the church, but also the academy, Grace serves her community with joy, irenic engagement, and a deep commitment to serve Christian women through church life and academic leadership. We give thanks for Grace and her powerful life of faith and passion for Christian women.

Grace Al-Zoughbi earned a B.A. in Biblical Studies from Bethlehem Bible College; an M.A. (with Merit) in Theology from the London School of Theology. Grace is completing a PhD with the London School of Theology with a concentration on the theological education and leadership of Arab women in the Middle East. Grace is the first woman to serve as a Lecturer in Theological Education at the Arab Baptist Theological Seminary. Married to Rev. Michael Arteen, together they share a passion and calling to advance the work of Christ in the Middle East, having served in different capacities in the US, England, Europe and Asia. Grace will speak at CBE’s August 5-7, 2022 Conference in Atlanta as together we Explore the Fullness of Gal 3:28.

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In this episode of Women and Men Leading Together: Stories from the Field, Rob and Layla sit down with Tim Bushra, InterVarsity campus staff in Santa Barbara, CA. Listen as Tim brings a prophetic word about how Gen Z is thinking about women and men in ministry partnerships! 

Further Reading through CBE: 

How to Teach Mutuality to the Next Generation https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/how-teach-mutuality-next-generation 

Seven Egalitarian Leaders Reflect on the Movement’s Past, Present, and Future 

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/seven-egalitarian-leaders-reflect-movements-past-present 

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This week on the Intersectionality thread, host Angela interviews Dr. Kwok Pui Lan on her co-authored book with Joerg Rieger, Occupy Religion: Theology of the Multitude. Kwok discusses the occupy movement and how the multitude refers to the 99%. She emphasizes how the Bible heavily discusses the poor, those in poverty, and how this is central to biblical teaching. Other topics included economic inequity in the world today, holistic restoration, restorative justice, and post-colonialism.

Other Reading:

Occupy Religion: Theology of the Multitude: https://www.amazon.com/Occupy-Religion-Theology-Multitude-Modern/dp/1442217928

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This week on the New Voices thread, hosts Erin and Blake interview Dr. Diane Langberg on her new book, Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church. They discuss how power is a gift from God that should not be exploited, misused, or used for personal benefit. Power from God was given to us “to be like (God) and to produce fruit that looks like him.” Dr. Langberg discusses the work she does with trauma victims, how it is an invitation to the sufferings of Christ, and how we need to examine ourselves regarding deceptive power.

Other Reading:

Are We Continuing to Sideline Women in Conversations About Abuse? https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/are-we-continuing-sideline-women-conversations-about-abuse

The Psalm of Vengeance, the God Who Listens, and How I Learned to Forgive My Mother’s Abuser

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/priscilla-papers-academic-journal/psalm-vengeance-god-who-listens-and-how-i

Women’s Equality and How Churches Respond to Abuse

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/womens-equality-and-how-churches-respond-abuse

Her Twitter account: @dianelangberg

Her website: https://www.dianelangberg.com/

Links to her books

• Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church: https://cbeinternational.christianbook.com/redeeming-power-understanding-authority-abuse-church/diane-langberg/9781587434389/pd/43438X?event=ESRCN
• Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores

https://www.amazon.com.au/Suffering-Heart-God-Destroys-Restores/dp/1942572026#:~:text=Her%20answer%20carefully%20explained%20in%20Suffering%20and%20the,their%20traumatic%20suffering%20through%20talking%2C%20tears%2C%20and%20time.

• On the Threshold of Hope: Opening the Door to Healing for Survivors of Sexual Abuse

https://www.amazon.com.au/Threshold-Hope-Opening-Healing-Survivors/dp/0842343628/ref=sr_1_1?crid=QVR2DT2WL99R&keywords=On+the+Threshold+of+Hope%3A+Opening+the+Door+to+Healing+for+Survivors+of+Sexual+Abuse&qid=1644525107&s=books&sprefix=on+the+threshold+of+hope+opening+the+door+to+healing+for+survivors+of+sexual+abuse+%2Cstripbooks%2C76&sr=1-1

• Counseling Survivors of Sexual Abuse

https://www.amazon.com.au/Counseling-Survivors-Sexual-Abuse-Langberg/dp/0842304878/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2C6FFZARC8VD2&keywords=Counseling+Survivors+of+Sexual+Abuse&qid=1644525241&s=books&sprefix=counseling+survivors+of+sexual+abuse+%2Cstripbooks%2C79&sr=1-2

• Counsel for Pastors’ Wives

https://www.amazon.com.au/Counsel-Pastors-Wives-Diane-Langberg-ebook/dp/B004M18LWC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1TQ8Z6YV9IYBW&keywords=Counsel+for+Pastors%E2%80%99+Wives&qid=1644525284&s=books&sprefix=counsel+for+pastors+wives+%2Cstripbooks%2C80&sr=1-1

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This week on the Global Impact thread, hosts Mimi and Kim interview Dr. Beatrice Ambauen-Berger about her work in fistula repair in rural Bangladesh. They discuss how the neglect and low status of women leads to birthing disasters and disease, and more specifically fistulas. This disease is marked by ongoing incontinence, causing women further neglect as they are ostracized from community and family. Join us in hearing Beatrice and her team’s work to bring redemptive healing that shouts of Jesus’ countercultural approach to healing such women.   

To learn more about her work, see: 

Dr. Beatrice explains fistulas on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpyqzkCJQL4 

Aljazeera documentary featuring Dr. Beatrice: https://www.aljazeera.com/program/101-east/2016/1/17/too-young-to-wed-child-marriage-in-bangladesh 

Follow the work of Lamb Hospital in Bangladesh at: LAMBproject.org 

Reach the main donor for fistulas: womenshope.ch  

Reach Dr. Beatrice Ambuen-Berger at: bea.ambauen@gmail.com 

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This week on the Women & Men thread, hosts Rob and Layla talk with Pastors Neely McQueen and Pat Swanson about their co-leadership, mixed-gender model for a healthy ministry partnership. Neely and Pat discuss how they came to agreement to co-apply for their church’s Lead Pastor position, and how they dreamed and planned together for their new partnership. They share how their co-leadership model is a gift to their congregation and how having a woman and a man serving together in co-leadership roles brings healing and causes restorative, redemptive work within the church. 

Other topics included the different challenges Neely and Pat had to overcome as they entered their new partnership. They gave tips on how to be successful with their leadership model and provided their dreams for the future of the church and women and men working together in ministry.

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This week on the Intersectionality thread, host Angela talks with Rev. Dr. Teresa L. Fry Brown about sounding the certain trumpet in the key of F—for female. She shares that prophetic preaching is based in God’s great love for all humanity and calls us all into right relationship with each other. It is not a black thing or a white thing but a love thing. She also shares from her book, Delivering the Sermon: Voice, Body and Animation in Proclamation.

Other topics included the need for soul care and time with God in prayer and self-examination for every preacher as part of their preparation and delivering of the Word of God in an impactful transformative manner.

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This week on the New Voices thread, hosts Blake and Erin speak with Tiffany Bluhm about her book Prey Tell: Why We Silence Women Who Tell the Truth and How Everyone Can Speak Up.The conversation ranges from discussing cultures that perpetuate the silencing of women, Tiffany’s own experiences, and how we can move towards healthier spaces. 

To keep up with Tiffany’s work, make sure to follow her on Twitter and Instagram @tiffanybluhm, listen to her podcast Why Tho and pick up a copy of Prey Tell. 

Related Reading: 

“Are We Continuing to Sideline Women in Conversations about Abuse?” 

“Men Still Need to Talk about the Difficulties Women Still Face”  

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This week on the Global Impact thread of Mutuality Matters, hosts Mimi and Kim interview Amanda Jackson, director of the Women’s Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) and recipient of CBE’s 2021 Lifetime Achievement Award. In this candid conversation, Amanda offers Christian women leaders strategies for facing hurdles preventing them from using their gifts based in her own experience, she shares stories of faith and expertise in reading Scripture in with new insights that support women’s leadership, she suggests very practical ways men can serve as allies to women, and finally, Amanda offers us strategies for preventing violence and abuse. You won’t want to miss this opportunity to learn from Amanda’s numerous and varied experiences and expertise!

Things mentioned in this episode:

Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an exercise in Hope by Dr. Esau McCaulley, IVP 2020 (book)

Women’s Commission of the World Evangelical Alliance (WEA) (organization)

RISE in Strength (organization)

A news article about the christian network to end abuse (news article)

Learn more about CBE and the work we do!

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In this episode of Women and Men Leading Together: Stories from the Field, hosts Layla and Rob sit down with Lisa Rodriguez-Watson, National Director of Missio Alliance. You won’t find a more honest and real assessment of the challenges and benefits of pursuing mixed-gender ministry partnerships, and Lisa’s passion for partnership should not be missed! 

To continue learning from Lisa, find her on Twitter and Instagram @LRodWatson, and for more on the ministry of Missio Alliance, see www.missioalliance.org. 

Read CBE articles published in partnership with Missio Alliance: 

Biblical Equality and the Letters of Paul 

9 Ridiculously Practical Ways for Male Leaders to Empower Female Leaders in the Church 

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This week on the Intersectionality thread, host Angela Ravin-Anderson talks with Rev. Dr. Carolyn Ann Knight about her personal experience of being called by God to preach over 40 years ago. This preacher, pastor, and professor highlights how she has navigated points of collision throughout her journey in ministry and pastoral leadership. Angela and Dr. Knight also discuss the importance of role models and mentors in our lives who helped open doors and advised her along the way. Let’s listen and learn! 

Related Reading: The Freedom-Faith of Rev. Dr. Prathia Hall Wynn Reforming Mentor Relationships by Rereading Genesis 1–3 CBE Articles on Women's Leadership, Mentoring, and Vocation

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This week on the New Voices thread: The latest issue of Mutuality magazine just dropped and Blake and Erin have the inside scoop! In this episode, our hosts share their thoughts on the articles, providing an overview of the issue’s content. As a special treat, Blake and Erin do a spotlight segment with Deirdre “Jonese” Austin about her article. Enjoy this special segment and interview and then go read the winter issue of Mutuality magazine.

And don’t forget to follow the work of Deirdre Jonese Austin!

Read more CBE articles by Dierdre “Jonese” Austin:

The Freedom-Faith of Rev. Dr. Prathia Hall Wynn

What I Wish You Knew About Black Women in Ministry: An Open Letter

In the “Can we Man It Up?” episode, Erin and Blake interview Dr. William G. Witt, author of Icons of Christ: A Biblical and Systematic Theology for Women’s Ordination.

Pre-order CBE’s latest book, Created to Thrive: Cultivating Abuse-Free Faith Communities, and get a bundle of free perks!

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This week on the Global Impact Thread, hosts Mimi Haddad and Kim Dickson get to sit down with long-time CBE friends and influential world changers Ron and Arbutus Sider in their backyard (with Kim calling in via Zoom). They talk about the progress of positive change for women that Arbutus notes in her reflections from the time she was a young girl to today. Central to this discussion is their own change as a couple from patriarchy to mutuality. Arbutus’s reflections on Ron’s cancer and how that requires changes reflects the wider issue of how different seasons require changing roles. We also discuss Ron’s work with the Evangelicals for Social Action, and the impact of his many books on the Christian world.  

Within the interview you will hear references to:   

Leymah Gbowee, Mighty Be Our Powers: How Sisterhood, Prayer, and Sex Changed a Nation at War – A Memoir. 

Ron Sider, Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger 

Ron Sider, Good News and Good Works 

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This week on the Men and Women Leading Together thread: “When women and men have flourishing partnerships in ministry, we do our best work, our most effective work for the kingdom.” Melodie Marske serves as a regional ministry director for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA, and in this episode, she joins Layla and Rob to share her perspective on mixed-gender partnerships as a single woman who has served in ministry for more than 30 years. Our conversation was full of encouraging stories and a compelling vision for partnership, you won’t want to miss this interview!  

To continue learning from Melodie, find her on Facebook @melodie.marske 

CBE's free online library hosts dozens of articles on singleness from an egalitarian perspective, singleness and ministry, and much more. Check them out here. 

And read the "Singleness: Family, Identity, and Service Beyond Marriage" issue of Mutuality magazine. 

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This week on the Intersectionality thread, host Angela Ravin-Anderson speaks with Dr. Irie Lynne Sessions about why Dr. Session is a womanist theologian, how womanist theology liberates everyone, the joys and challenges of being a Black woman in pastoral leadership, the specific insights Black women have to offer the church, biblical interpretations that can help free men and women of all races, ethnicities, and classes live into their God-given calling and gifts, and more!  

You can follow Dr. Session on Twitter @revdririe. 

Check out these Mutuality magazine issues from CBE:  

Learning Lament, Building Empathy, and Joining our Sisters at the Intersection of Race and Gender  

Womanist Theology: Unraveling the Double Bind of Racism and Sexism  

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Show notes:  

This week on the New Voices thread, hosts Blake and Erin speak with Dr. Stephanie Buckhanon Crowder about her book When Momma Speaks: The Bible and Motherhood from a Womanist Perspective. The conversation ranges from defining womanism, exploring the complexities of motherhood, to hearing Dr. Crowder discuss a few of the Old Testament mothers she engages in her book.  

To keep up with Stephanie’s work, make sure to follow her on Twitter @stepbcrowder and pick up a copy of When Momma Speaks! 

Related Reading: 

CBE's review ofWhen Momma Speaks 

"Womanist Theology: Unraveling the Double Bind of Racism and Sexism," the Autumn 2020 issue of Mutuality magazine 

“Why Womanist Theology Is Vital to Me” by David Hart 

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This week on the Global Impact thread, Mimi interviews her co-host Kim Dickson, a public health worker and egalitarian activist. They discuss Kim’s experiences as a Christian public health worker and specifically her time serving in India, exploring the ways the good news of Jesus for women changed communities. In this episode you’ll hear many stories, including one about four young women who had believed God created them to be “feebleminded,” and through Bible study and conversation, learned that instead God created them to be capable, strong daughters of God, created in God’s image. 

Within the interview, Kim and Mimi reference Half the Sky by Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn.  

Read more from CBE: In the “Freedom to Flourish” issue of Mutuality magazine, theologians, humanitarians, pastors, and social justice advocates explore connections between what we believe about women and how that impacts the way we empower women around the world.  

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This week on the Women and Men Leading Together thread: What do mixed-gender partnerships look like when you’re married...to your ministry partner?!? Layla and Rob learn from Jeff and April Fiet, married co-pastors of First Presbyterian Church in Scottsbluff, NE. Putting their 14 years of co-leading to work, the Fiets provide a long and helpful litany of practical tips for joyful and sustainable ministry partnerships between spouses.

Here’s how to connect with the Fiets:

• Jeff’s Twitter handle is @jeffreyfiet
• April’s handle for Instagram and Twitter is @aprilfiet, and her website is aprilfiet.com. Sign up for her newsletter, At the Table with April Fiet, here, and April’s book, The Sacred Pulse: Holy Rhythms for Overwhelmed Souls, is coming in December from Broadleaf Books.

Read April's story in herarticle, "Life by Committee," for CBE's Mutuality magazine.

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This week on the Intersectionality thread, Angela sits down with Old Testament scholar Rev. Dr. Renita Weems to talk about how Christians can widen the metaphorical table of Bible interpretation to examine biases, face difficult passages, and be formed by different perspectives. Dr. Weems discusses how race and gender and class represent multiple systems that interrogate our context and should challenge us as we read the Bible in community with one another. As Dr. Weems warns us, "Always remember interpretation is about power and those with power determine which interpretation becomes the dominate one.”

Resources mentioned in the conversation:

Scarred by Struggle, Transformed by Hope by Joan D. Chittister and Franciscan Media

Check out these Mutuality magazine issues from CBE:

Learning Lament, Building Empathy, and Joining our Sisters at the Intersection of Race and Gender

Womanist Theology: Unraveling the Double Bind of Racism and Sexism

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This week on the New Voices thread: He’s an author, practitioner, AND one of our very own co-hosts for this podcast—Dr. Rob Dixon! It was our joy to get a chance to sit down with Rob and talk about a book you will want to buy not only for yourself but for everyone you know in ministry. Together in Ministry is one of those books that will not only change the way we think about women and men working together in ministry but it shows us how. Enjoy this interview and then go follow Rob and listen to the episodes he produces with his co-host, Layla Ven Gerpen.

Find Rob at drrobdixon.com on Twitter at @robfdixon.

PurchaseTogether in Ministry: Women and Men in Flourishing Partnerships here and Mary Kate Morris’ Making Room for Leadership here.

Read more by Rob Dixon on CBE International’s website:

Raising Up Allies: A Standardized Pathway for Developing Men into Allies to Women

Jesus' Vision for Masculinity: The (Actual) Best A Man Can Get

The Way God Intends It: Men And Women As Gospel Partners

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This week we’re so excited to finally introduce you to the new and improved Mutuality Matters podcast! We’re now officially a part of CBE International! In this episode, you’ll get to meet the new hosts who are joining the team and learn more about what this means for the podcast going forward. The group had a great time recording this podcast, and we hope you’ll have a great time listening! We also hope you’ll stick around, as we’ll be dropping podcasts on the following topics WEEKLY! 

Global Impact: Egalitarian Activism and Human Flourishing with Dr. Mimi Haddad and Kim Dickson 

Intersectionality: Where Race, Gender, and Religion Collide with Rev. Dr. Angela Ravin-Anderson

Women & Men Leading Together: Stories from the Field with Dr. Rob Dixon and Layla Van Gerpen 

New Voices: The Latest Conversation on an Age-Old Struggle with Rev. Dr. Erin Moniz and Blake Dean! 

Visit cbeinternational.org for more resources on egalitarianism and mutuality in the church, world, and home! Follow the CBE on Facebook and Twitter. 

You can support the new Mutuality Matters podcast by giving securely online here.

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THE DAY HAS FINALLY ARRIVED! Erin & Blake have some BIG NEWS about the future of the podcast.

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Mutuality Matters went on a ROAD TRIP to Birmingham Alabama to attend the first ever Women in Ministry Conference from the Center for Women in Ministry at Beeson Divinity School! If that were not awesome enough, we have a special guest who helps co-host this episode with us. We are excited to share about our time at this wonderful conference and we hope you check out Beeson, the Center for WIM, and the great work Kristen Padilla is doing!

We had some technical difficulties on this one but opted to release it anyway because the content is so important. Thanks for your patience.

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Poverty. When poverty is a variable, a number of other power deficits and abuses can follow. In this episode, Blake & Erin go through the stats, locally and globally, to show how poverty disproportionately affects women. So many categories of gender and justice start with the prevalence of poverty. We hope this episode is sobering but also inspiring. Our hosts provide their own tips and call to action so that we can all work towards a biblical imperative to care for the "least of these as unto me."

Books:

Scars Across Humanity - Elaine Storkey

Half the Sky - Kristof and WuDunn

Evicted - Matthew Desmond

Spending and Orgs:

Thriftbooks

Bookshop.org

Preemptive Love

Mercy House

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Southern Baptist megachurch - Saddleback Church & Portland Non-Denom church - Imago Dei, both switched over to ordaining and affirming the full participation of women in church leadership. LOTS of opinions being thrown around the interwebs over this one so Blake & Erin tell you what Tish Harrison Warren, Al Mohler, and CBE International (among others) have to contribute. This episode gives an overview of church denominations, church history, ecclesiology, and how our theology is (and is NOT) shaped by the culture. This one gets wild as Blake and Erin (in the same room since 2019) riff their high energy hot takes on these current events. Enjoy!

People and Stuff We Mention That You Should Check Out:

Podcasts: Annie & Eddie Keep Talking, That Sounds Fun Podcast, The New Activist

Imago Dei Portland video on policy change

Tish Harrison Warren (@Tish_H_Warren), Christianity Today article

William (Bill) Witt book

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If you have never heard of her, you are about to be informally introduced to one of the many unsung heroines of church history - Katharine Bushnell. Her story is our story and we think you will love learning about her and the early years of suffrage that came out of the Christian faith.

And while you are checking out Katharine Bushnell, you should also get acquainted with:

• Susan B. Anthony
• Sojourner Truth
• Frances Willard
• Hildegard of Bingen
• Teresa of Avila
• Julian of Norwich
• Macrina
• Saint Monica
• Perpetua and Felicity

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It's been a minute, but Blake and Erin are back with a NEW EPISODE! Blake interviews our very own Erin Moniz on the eve of her finished doctoral thesis - "Created to Connect: Recapturing a Gospel Understanding of Intimacy for Emerging Adults in a College Setting."

Erin discusses the basis of her research and she and Blake discuss the implications for gender theology and christology. We want to thank all of our loyal listeners during our hiatus. We promise we have some cool, new things on the horizon. So stay tuned for more content and enjoy our first two seasons!

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Join hosts Blake & Erin for an opportunity we couldn't pass up with Dr. Mimi Hadid.

Dr. Mimi Haddad is president and CEO of CBE International. She is a graduate of the University of Colorado and Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary (Summa Cum Laude). She holds a PhD in historical theology from the University of Durham, England. Palmer Theological Seminary of Eastern University awarded Mimi an Honorary Doctorate of Divinity in 2013.

Haddad is part of the leadership of Evangelicals for Justice. She is a founding member and leader of the Evangelicals and Gender Study Group at the Evangelical Theological Society. Haddad is an award-winning author and has written more than one hundred academic and popular articles and blogs. Haddad is an adjunct assistant professor of historical theology at Fuller Theological Seminary and Zinzendorf School of Doctoral Studies. Mimi has taught for colleges and seminaries around the world. She currently serves as a gender consultant for World Vision International, World Relief, and Beyond Borders. Mimi and her husband, Dale, live in Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota.

Check out CBE International for more resources!

Mimi's book recs:

Caste: The Origins of our Discontents

Unleader: Surprising Qualities of a Valuable Leader

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Join hosts Erin Moniz and Blake Dean as they reminisce on this season of stories and lessons! They walk through some of the best moments and most memorable guests. If you're caught up on every episode, this will be a sweet finale for you. Or, if you're not caught up, get a glimpse on the episodes to look forward to as you binge the season. Either way, we won't judge. Your podcast listening experience is up to you.

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Yes, we really do talk about advent and the apocalypse. It is 2020, after all.

Join hosts Blake and Erin and their guest Dr. Emily McGowin as they discuss what family really means for our gender theology and what advent can look like this year. 

Dr. Emily H. McGowin serves as Assistant Professor of Theology at Wheaton College and as a priest and Canon Theologian in the ACNA diocese of Churches for the Sake of Others (C4SO). She specializes in the study of lived religion and what it offers the work of theology. Her first book  was published by Fortress Press in 2018: Quivering Families: The Quiverfull Movement and Evangelical Theology of the Family. Her Ph.D. in theology is from the University of Dayton. She has an M.Div. from Truett Seminary at Baylor University, and a B.A. in biblical studies from Criswell College. She is married to Ron and we have three children. You can follow her on Twitter: @emilymcgowin. For her most recent project, she is serving as the editor for a new series tentatively titled The Fullness of Time: A Journey Through the ChurchYear which will include many diverse authors and theologians. The first two books in the series will release in Winter 2022 from Intervarsity Press.

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After a so many episodes of Blake referencing her work, Dr. Cynthia Westfall is finally a guest on the show!

Join hosts Blake and Erin and guest Dr. Cynthia Westfall in their discussion about those verses that are always brought into question around gender theology. The conversation is so good, we had to break it into TWO parts!

Cynthia Long Westfall, PhD, is assistant professor of New Testament at McMaster Divinity College in Hamilton, Ontario. She is the author of Discourse Analysis of the Letter to the Hebrews: The Relation­ship Between Form and Meaning (T. & T. Clark, 2006), and Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle's Vision for Men and Women in Christ(Baker Academic, 2016) and has been part of an urban mission to the inner city in Denver for more than twenty years. For the last five years, she has also been involved in urban ministry in the Greater Toronto area.

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After a so many episodes of Blake referencing her work, Dr. Cynthia Westfall is finally a guest on the show!

Join hosts Blake and Erin and guest Dr. Cynthia Westfall in their discussion about those verses that are always brought into question around gender theology. The conversation is so good, we had to break it into TWO parts!

Cynthia Long Westfall, PhD, is assistant professor of New Testament at McMaster Divinity College in Hamilton, Ontario. She is the author of Discourse Analysis of the Letter to the Hebrews: The Relation­ship Between Form and Meaning (T. & T. Clark, 2006), and Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle's Vision for Men and Women in Christ(Baker Academic, 2016) and has been part of an urban mission to the inner city in Denver for more than twenty years. For the last five years, she has also been involved in urban ministry in the Greater Toronto area.

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In this episode, the hosts and their guest, Eugene Hung, not only touch on Marvel's Agents of Shield and church youth group camp culture, but also unpack the "Man Box." The conversation also turns to intersectionality and gender-based violence, as Eugene walks through his story and our theology on these pressing issues.

Eugene Hung is an advocate, educator, and writer. His blog, Feminist Asian Dad, is the main hub for his writings but you can also find his columns, and articles in AsianceMagazine.com, FindingBalance.com, HuffPost, The Mary Sue, Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Christians for Biblical Equality, 8Asians, Thick Dumpling Skin, Catalytic Women, and the National Park Service. In addition to being a freelance writer, Hung is also a public speaker on women’s rights, masculinity, and relationship and sexual violence prevention. Previously, he worked as an educator at the University of California, Irvine in the Campus Assault Resources and Education (CARE) office. Before that, he was on the paid staff of the nonprofit Man Up Campaign as a movement organizer and digital communications manager. And before even that, he served for more than 12 years as a church minister. Eugene holds a Th.M. degree in leadership, a B.A. in math and political science, and he is state-certified to serve as a sexual assault victim advocate.

He lives with his wife and two daughters in Southern California. Eugene states: “My experiences with my girls and my advocacy on their behalf provide the fodder for my commentary on parenting, gender, feminism, race, and culture.”

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Erin, Blake, and their guest Nicole Foster tackle a lot in this episode, touching on all things race, woman leadership, and marriage. Buckle up for an episode that is sure to make you laugh along with the conversation while planting some new thoughts, just like it did for our hosts. 

Nicole Foster is an educator from Dallas TX. She works at a high school for at-risk teens and founded “Lady Life;” a mentoring program for young women in her school. She also travels as a professor of Old Testament through Richmond Bible Institute and is currently the founder and minister of Hippie Theologian - an online community of public theology; giving voice to theological issues that concern society at large. She has her Bacholers in History from Southern Methodist University and her Masters of Divinity from Redeemer Seminary. She is currently a doctoral candidate at Trinity School for Ministry where she studies the theological culture of online religious forums such as Hippie Theologian.

Find her on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube too!

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"They assume Christians lead natural lives."

If you have been listening for awhile now, you may catch a couple callbacks in this episode, as Erin and Blake discuss singleness with their guest Dr. Christina Hitchcock. The three take a deep dive into what singleness means in the church and what it means for gender theology.

Christina Hitchcock has her PhD from University of Aberdeen. She is a professor of theology at the University of Sioux Falls in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, where she has taught for more than fifteen years. Her current research focuses on the intersection of theology and culture. She is the author of The Significance of Singleness which came out in 2018 from Baker Publishing.

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From Hamilton analysis to discussing the gender of God, the conversation between hosts Erin and Blake and Dr. Natalie Carnes covers topics we've all wanted to talk with a theologian about.

Natalie is a constructive theologian who reflects on traditional theological topics through somewhat less traditional themes, like images, iconoclasm, beauty, gender, and childhood. For this work, she draws on literary and visual works as sites of theological reflection, and her interest in doing so takes her into questions of religious knowledge and authority. What are the possibilities and limitations of different theological genres? Her third book, forthcoming spring 2020, is a theological narrative entitled Motherhood: A Confession. It mirrors the structure and themes of Augustine's Confessions to offer a different story that reflects on different flesh as to consider what it means to be human in the face of the divine.

Currently, she is working on a new project, co-authored with Matthew Whelan, that explores intersections of poverty, aesthetics, luxury, and art. In it, they pursue the question: What is the place of art in a world of poverty and suffering?

Natalie lives in Waco with her husband and three children. Visit her site!

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In this episode, host Erin has a conversation with Sandra Van Opstal that challenges some of the narratives about diversity, inclusion, and unity.

Sandra is a second-generation Latina and a pastor at Grace and Peace Community on the west-side of Chicago. She is a preacher, liturgist and activist who is re-imagining the intersection of worship and justice.

In her fifteen years with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Sandra mobilized thousands of college students for God’s mission of reconciliation and justice in the world. Sandra served as Director of Worship for the Urbana Missions Conference, Chicago Urban Program Director, Latino National Leadership Team (LaFe), and Northwestern University Team leader (Multiethnic fellowship).

Sandra’s influence has also reached many others through her leadership and preaching on topics such of worship and formation, justice, racial identity and reconciliation, and global mission. She has been featured at Wheaton College, North Park University, The Justice Conference, Evangelical Covenant conferences, Willow Creek Association conferences, and various churches. Sandra serves as a board member for Evangelicals for Justice and the Christian Community Development Association. Sandra was also the Worship Director for the IFES World Assemblyin Mexico 2015, Lausanne Younger Leaders Gathering in Jarkarta 2016 and Global Gathering in South Africa 2018. She is also the Executive director and Co-founder of Chasing Justice

In addition to her ministry experience, Sandra holds a Masters of Divinity from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Illinois and has been published in multiple journals. She has authored God’s Graffiti Devotional, Still Evangelical, The Mission of Worship and The Next Worship.

In this episode, Erin quotes from the book Prophetic Lament, which is also highly recommended.

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"Jesus spends a lot of time telling men to get over themselves."

Join hosts Erin and Blake and their special guest Carrie A. Miles as they walk through the often-overlooked sociological and anthropological context of gender in the Bible. It's no small task, but with the help of some useful analogies like from Les Misérables and Pride & Prejudice and the insightful stories from Carrie's' work, the hosts and guests have crafted quite the conversation that answers a lot of questions.

Carrie A. Miles is the author of The Redemption of Love: Rescuing Marriage and Sexuality from the Economics of a Fallen World , New Man, New Woman, New Life and Face-to-Face. As executive director of Empower International Ministries, Carrie travels throughout Africa and India, helping Christian leaders discover the biblical message of what God intended us to be to each other when He created us as male and female, and how we can reclaim His redemptive purpose in our lives. She holds a doctorate in social and organizational psychology (University of Chicago) and is a non-resident scholar at the Institute for the Studies of Religion at Baylor University in Texas.

Learn more about Carrie Miles here: http://www.carriemiles.com

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In this episode, Erin and Blake interview Dr. William G. Witt, and they tackle some of the classic arguments you have been waiting for, like passages like 2nd Timothy 2. Naturally, the hosts and guest also share personal stories about gender roles and gender theology.  

Dr. William G. Witt is an Associate Professor of Systematic Theology and Ethics at Trinity School for Ministry in Ambridge, PA. He has his BA, from Rockmont College, an MA from St. Thomas Seminary, and a PhD from the University of Notre Dame. His research interests are historical and contemporary theology; the relation between Medieval and Reformation theology; spiritual theology and the history of Christian spirituality; theological methodology; philosophical theology, especially, the transformation of classical epistemology and metaphysics by the uniquely Christian doctrines of creation, incarnation, and grace. He is the author of the recently published: Icons of Christ: A biblical systematic theology for Women’s Ordination slated to be released on Oct 30th 2020. Check out his site here: http://willgwitt.org 

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They say never meet your heroes, but Erin did! And she was not disappointed! In this episode, Erin and Blake have a conversation with author and theologian, Carolyn Custis James. They touch on topics such as the biblical themes in Frozen 2, the story of Ruth, and the theology of the "blessed alliance."

Carolyn Custis James is an award winning author who thinks deeply about what it means to be a female follower of Jesus in a postmodern world. Her speaking and writing ministry is dedicated to addressing the deeper needs and issues confronting both women and men as they endeavor to extend God’s kingdom together in a messy and complicated world. Carolyn is an adjunct faculty member at Missio Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and a consulting editor for Zondervan’s Exegetical Commentary Series on the New Testament. She speaks regularly at church conferences, colleges, and for other Christian organizations both in the US and abroad and is a guest lecturer at various theological seminaries.

Find her work on her website: https://carolyncustisjames.com and follow her on Twitter at @carolynezer.

Pick up any one or more of her incredible books!

• Finding God in the Margins: The Book of Ruth (2018)
• Malestrom: Manhood Swept into the Currents of a Changing World (2015)
• Half the Church: Recapturing God’s Global Vision for Women(2011)
• The Gospel of Ruth: Loving God Enough to Break the Rules (2008)
• Understanding Purpose(2006)
• Lost Women of the Bible: The Women We Thought We Knew (2005)
• When Life and Beliefs Collide: How Knowing God Makes a Difference (2001)

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In episode two of season two, Erin and Blake have a conversation with Kristen Padilla about theology of vocation and finding their calling while understanding the complex nature of women's leadership in the church. Padilla, who once thought the only way for her to be in ministry was to apply to be a pastor's wife, is currently the marketing and communications director for Beeson Divinity School. Her first book Now That I’m Called: A Guide for Women Discerning a Call to Ministry was released in 2018.

Support & Follow Kristen!

• Buy her book here
• Follow her on Instagram: @kristenrpadilla; Twitter: @kristenpadilla; and Facebook: @kristenpadilla
• Check out her website to stay up to date with her new projects

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Blake and Erin are back in action! This season we are excited to focus our episodes on the "classic" arguments from Scripture and culture about men and women in marriage, the church, and society. In this introductory episode, Blake & Erin give you a preview into what you can expect and who you can expect this season. These discussions are so big, we knew we'd need some help. So we asked our smart friends to join us and you won't want to miss out on this A-List cast of guests.

And be sure to listen to the podcast all the way to the end for a #BIGANNOUNCEMENT about a new feature we are introducing to our podcast fam. Welcome to #Season2!

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In this final episode of season one, Blake and Erin talk with a Dr. Jordan Rowan Fannin, a theology professor at Berry College. Not only is she on first-name basis with Flannery O'Connor (unbeknownst to O'Conner), Dr. Rowan Fannin has a lot to share about teaching feminism and theology and what she personally has learned through this experience. 

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An alumni of Berry College and of the Chaplain's Office, Adam Hubert joins Blake and Erin to discuss biblical manhood, race, decolonization, and Adam's own journey. Adam is now a teacher and coach in Greensboro, North Carolina. Follow Adam on Twitter at @_aHuby

Recommendations in this episode:

Pass the Mic Podcast

Truth's Table Podcast

Esau McCaulley's Reading While Black

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When both Erin & Blake tear up during an interview, you KNOW it's gonna be good! We are so thrilled to introduce our listeners to local hero, Stacie Marshall. Blake and Erin pepper her with questions about her life journey as a college minister and understanding of gender theology. Marshall has been influential on the campus Blake and Erin live on, and her story illustrates how gender theology can change a life. 

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NEW SERIES! We have been very excited about bringing on some of our friends who are formative in our own journey's with gender theology.

First up is Rev. Dr. Jonathan Huggins! He is the Chaplain of Berry College, a church history scholar, and priest in the ACNA. Besides being the BOSS (of both Blake and Erin), he is a champion for cooperative ministry between men and women.

Show Notes:

N.T. Wright's article with Christians for Biblical Equality

Lucy Peppiatt's books: Rediscovering Scripture's Vision for Women and Women and Worship at Corinth

Connect:

Twitter: @mutualitymatter

Instagram: @mutuality_matters

Facebook: @mutualitymatter

Website: mutualitymatters.podbean.com

Hosts:

Blake: blakewdean (FB, Instagram)

Erin: efaithmo (FB, Twitter, Instagram)

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Today, Blake and Erin wrap up our series on Dating! We've been taking your questions throughout the series (thanks!) and so this episode covers a lot of territory. We hope you enjoyed this series and that you benefited from these topics! Keep sending us your thoughts and questions.

Some resources for you from this episode:

Documentary: "Over 18" (available on Amazon Prime)

Article: "Consuming Ecstasy: Representations of Male and Female Orgasm in Mainstream Pornography"

Book: Carolyn Custis James' "When Life and Beliefs Collide"

Connect:

Twitter: @mutualitymatter

Instagram: @mutuality_matters

Facebook: @mutualitymatter

Website: mutualitymatters.podbean.com

Hosts:

Blake: blakewdean (FB, Instagram)

Erin: efaithmo (FB, Twitter, Instagram)

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In this episode, Blake and Erin talk about singleness and what this means for dating, friendship, and gender theology. We would love to hear from our listeners for upcoming episodes, so find us on social media @mutuality_matters to engage with us!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

https://anglicanpastor.com/how-to-provide-the-sacrament-of-family-to-single-people/

https://spiritualfriendship.org/author/wahill/

http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-significance-of-singleness/389841

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In the second installment of the series on dating, Rev. Erin Moniz and Blake Dean discuss purity culture and hook up culture and how this impacts dating and gender theology. 

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Blake and Erin start off a series on dating and what it has to do with gender theology. In this foundation episode, they tackle subjects such as what dating is, the purpose of marriage, and the classic "Christian dating rules." 

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In this episode, Blake and Erin discuss the books that shaped their theology.    Blake's Books: Paul, Women, and Wives by Craig Keener The Hidden History of Women's Ordination by Gary Macy (Podcast) Seminary Dropout 157- Tish Harrison Warren & Jonathan Warren: A Biblical, Historical, and Pastoral Defense of Women in Ministry Paul and Gender by Cynthia Westfall   Erin's Books: Lost Women of the Bible, Gospel of Ruth, Half the Church, When Life and Beliefs Collide, Malestrom by Carolyn Custis James Jesus Feminist by Sarah Bessey Half the Sky by Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn The Case for Female Deacons by Jamin Hubiner Are Women Human? by Dorothy Sayers   Erin also highly recommends the fantastic resource, Christians for Biblical Equality International.

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Why "Mutuality?" Why do we use this word for our podcast and is it biblical? Blake and Erin deep dive into the importance of terms while discussing gender theology.

Be sure to check out Cynthia Westfall's Paul and Gender: Reclaiming the Apostle's Vision for Men and Women in Christ

and Carolyn Custis James' Half the Church: Recapturing God's Global Vision for Women.

Ephesians5 #1Corinthians7 #BlessedAlliance #Submission #CynthiaWestfall #CarolynCustisJames #egalitarian #gendertheology

Blake is reading: Ta-Nehisi Coates' The Water Dancer

Erin is watching The Highlander series

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Happy Advent! In this special episode, Blake and Erin reflect on the season of advent by discussing the controversial and beautiful subject of Mary the mother of Jesus. Important note: Mary DID know (according to Luke 1). While this episode incorporates heavy amounts of Scripture and historical context, Rev. Erin Moniz can't not reference Lost Women of the Bible by Carolyn Custis James.

What Blake is listening to: Josh Garrels "The Light Came Down"

Music Credit: Hope and Doubt composed and recorded by Jenny and Tyler (All rights reserved. Somers Music Inc.)

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Welcome! Thank you for joining our conversation where Rev. Erin Moniz and Blake Dean introduce this new podcast. In this catalyst episode Blake and Erin explain the vision behind this podcast as well as defining some key terms that will be used in future episodes. Subscribe and follow us on social media to get the latest episodes and updates!

Key words: Christianity, feminism, faith, complimentarian, egalitarian, mutuality, gender theology