The Church Renewal Podcast: Recent Episodes
Flourish Coaching
The Church Renewal Podcast is a conversation for church leaders eager to see our churches refreshed by the gospel. The only fully sufficient reason that today dawned is that Jesus is yet gathering a people and using the church to do it. Come and join us as we dig into the ways Jesus is renewing his church.
Start here if you’ve ever wondered why church renewal efforts stall even when the plan looks solid. We trace a quieter, deeper path: personal differentiation rooted in rest in Christ, and how that inner work can transform the emotional climate of a whole congregation. Across a season’s worth of conversations, we unpack the tools, the cautions, and the hope that come with applying family systems wisdom alongside gospel-centered formation.
We share practical resources leaders can trust, from Emotionally Healthy Spirituality and Emotionally Healthy Relationships to Christian introductions to Bowen family systems that make patterns of anxiety and triangulation visible without turning people into projects. You’ll hear why these tools are descriptive rather than prescriptive, and how they serve the larger work of discipleship: defining yourself clearly, staying connected without control, and leading with a calm, non-anxious presence. Two core ideas keep surfacing. First, complementarity: when you change, the system shifts. Second, contagion: anxiety spreads, but so does differentiation and rest. Ground your identity in Christ, and watch how meetings, conflicts, and ministries find a steadier rhythm.
We also pull back the curtain on Flourish Coaching—what coaching is and isn’t, why so much of our current work focuses on transitional pastoring, and how churches can navigate liminal seasons with courage and clarity. Looking ahead, we preview a forthcoming book and season five’s focus on communal spiritual discernment shaped by Acts 15 and the wisdom language of James. Think pastor searches, vision work, and complex decisions approached with shared prayer, humility, and Spirit-led wisdom that is pure, peaceable, and open to reason.
If you’re ready to move from managing crises to shepherding culture, this conversation will give you a path and the posture to walk it. Subscribe, share with a fellow leader, and leave a review with one question you want us to explore next. Your curiosity helps shape what comes next.
Resources
Peter Scazzero, Emotionally Healthy Spirituality
Peter Scazzero & Geri Scazzero, Emotionally Healthy Spirituality Workbook + Streaming Video
Peter Scazzero & Geri Scazzero, Emotionally Healthy Relationships Workbook (Expanded Edition)
Roberta M. Gilbert, The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory
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If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
We trace the journey from anxious reactivity to settled assurance by rooting leadership and congregational life in the Father’s love. Through gospel clarity, lament, and emotionally mature practices, we show how calm spreads through leaders who act as circuit breakers for fear.
• anxiety defined as systemic reactivity and loss of perspective
• gospel as resource for differentiation, hope and endurance
• catastrophising, control grabs and scapegoating named and resisted
• God moves first: cross-centered assurance and presence
• practices for a non-anxious presence and family-of-origin work
• matching intensity, lament and attachment-aware care
• leaders transmitting assurance rather than anxiety
• signs of health: waiting, rest, patience and clearer mission
Thanks for listening to the Church Renewal Podcast from Flourish Coaching. For more information, go to our website, flourishcoaching.org, or send an email to info at flourishcoaching.org. You can also connect with us on Facebook, X, and YouTube. We appreciate when you like, subscribe, rate, or review our show whenever you're listening.
Helpful Resources
- Edwin H. Friedman – A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
- Jack Shitama – Anxious Church, Anxious People
- Revelation 2–3– Jesus’ discipline and care for local congregations
- Matthew 6:25–34– Jesus teaches that anxiety is answered by trusting the Father
- Romans 8:32– the cross assures us God will care for us
- Psalm 27:13–14– waiting on the Lord with courage and hope
- Romans 1–Revelation 4– God’s fatherly care expressed in his ongoing correction and encouragement to the church
Defining Terms
Anxiety – fear that the future is at great risk, generating reactive behavior
Catastrophization – assuming the worst possible future outcome
Scapegoating – locating the cause of internal anxiety in an external person
Non-Anxious Presence – choosing calm, grounded behavior despite feeling anxious internally
Differentiation – holding personal convictions while remaining relationally connected
Attachment Intensity Matching – meeting another’s emotional intensity to help them regulate
Reactivity – immediate emotional response driven by fear or discomfort
Responsiveness – thoughtful, grounded engagement shaped by the gospel Rest – the settled confidence that God is Father, provider, and protector
Support the show
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If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
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Change rarely fails because the plan is bad; it fails because anxious systems push back. We dive into the emotional mechanics of resistance—sabotage, cutoff, and the way fear shrinks a congregation’s imagination—and we explore how a well-differentiated leader can stay calm, connected, and faithful without caving to togetherness pressure. Show how you can respond without becoming reactive or rigid.
We describe the roles sabotage often takes in congregations: the Fan, the Expert, the Investor , the Docent , the Observer , the Reporter, the Peacemaker, and the Opposition . Not as personal betrayals, instead we frame them as grief responses to loss. Abuse requires distance; difficulty requires endurance. Reconciliation remains the aim.
Underneath it all sits imagination. Identity in Christ steadies the soul—if we’re not at stake, we can risk hard conversations. Expect resistance, recognize the patterns, and walk toward others with truth and love.
Resources for you!
- Peter Block – Flawless Consulting
- Roberta M. Gilbert – The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory
- Tod Bolsinger – Tempered Resilience
John 1:11 – Jesus rejected by his own, grounding the experience of sabotage
Matthew 28:18–20 – the Great Commission as the church’s core calling
2 Corinthians 5:18–20 – ministry of reconciliation as the church’s identity
1 Corinthians 3:21–23 – identity secured in belonging to Christ
1 Peter 4:12–13 – suffering as participation in Christ
Acts 5:41 – rejoicing to suffer for Christ’s name
Luke 10:25–37 – Good Samaritan as costly, risky love in action
1 John 4:7–11 – God’s love empowering our love for others
Definitions:
Sabotage – emotional resistance arising when systems feel threatened by change
Projection – attributing one’s internal emotional distress to another person
Triangulation – redirecting tension between two people onto a third
Cutoff – emotional distancing or severing connection to avoid discomfort
Boundary Setting – defining personal limits without severing relationship
Togetherness Pressure – system-driven push to maintain sameness and avoid change
Differentiation – holding one’s values while staying relationally connected
Support the show
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If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
We explore why pastoral transitions heighten anxiety and how those moments expose deeper issues of trust, communication, and power. With Dr. Ken Quick, we walk through systems thinking, corporate repentance, and practical steps boards can take to rebuild health and prepare for mission.
• defining anxiety as a systemic response in congregations
• tracing mistrust to specific historic breaches and naming them
• hearing criticism as a bid for care, not dishonor
• family systems framing for board reactions and presence
• power vacuums and the drift to pastor‑dominated models
• false comfort of quick hires versus deep repair
• the waiting place and dismantling unhealthy dependencies
• gospel‑centered repentance and non‑anxious leadership
• corporate discipline from Jesus and letters to churches
• three priorities for boards heading into transition
Resources
- Pete Scazzero – Emotionally Healthy Spirituality
- Pete Scazzero – Emotionally Healthy Relationships
- Roberta M. Gilbert – The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory
- Edwin H. Friedman – A Failure of Nerve
- Edwin H. Friedman – Generation to Generation
- Dr. Kenneth Quick – https://www.amazon.com/Eighth-Letter-Exploring-Churches-Discovering/dp/B08NDXBC1ZThe Eighth Letter
- Dr. Seuss – Oh, The Places You’ll Go!
Revelation 3:19 – Jesus disciplines those He loves.
Luke 22:31–32 – Satan demands to sift, but Christ intercedes.
Genesis 2:15 – Cultivate and keep the garden.
James 1:5 – Wisdom asked in humility.
James 3:17 – Wisdom from above described.
James 4:1 – Passions at war causing conflict.
We appreciate when you like, subscribe, rate, or review our show whenever you're listening
If you have questions or a need, we’d love to hear from you. For more information, go to our website, flourishcoaching.org, or send an email to info@flourishcoaching.org
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
What if the pastor everyone blames isn’t the problem at all? We pull back the curtain on how church systems—not just personalities—shape culture, power, and discipleship. With guest Dave Miles, we explore how a non-anxious presence, rooted in the gospel, helps leaders see beneath the surface, disrupt unhealthy homeostasis, and guide congregations from being “right” toward being reconciled.
We start by naming a familiar pattern: a prideful, inward culture that prizes correctness over love and leaves leaders burned out. Dave shares field-tested insights on reading anxiety in the room, refusing to overfunction, and creating space for real responsibility. We dig into governance where dysfunction often hides—unclear roles, strong personalities that shut down dissent, and “safe” hires who keep systems stuck. You’ll hear practical counsel on accepting resignations without drama, re-vetting boards, and choosing self-differentiated, grace-filled leaders who can hold ground without hostility.
Together, we connect family systems theory with robust biblical theology. Identity in Christ enables differentiation without defensiveness; Paul’s counsel to a tribal Corinth offers a gospel map for modern factions. We talk genograms, emotionally healthy discipleship, and diagnostics that mirror truth back to churches. The goal isn’t therapy for its own sake—it’s discipleship that forms people who confess, forgive, and act with integrity. As anxiety lowers, churches regain an outward focus, engage non-Christians without coming unglued, and make hard calls with clarity and compassion.
If you lead through transition, face a reactive board, or simply want a healthier pathway for your team, this conversation gives language, tools, and hope to move forward. Subscribe, share this with a fellow leader who needs courage today, and leave a review to help more churches find a way toward calm, clarity, and mission.
RESOURCES
- Edwin H. Friedman, Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue
- Ron Richardson, Creating a Healthier Church
- Tim Keller, The Prodigal God
- Tim Keller, The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness
- Peter Scazzero, Emotionally Healthy Spirituality
- Peter Scazzero, Emotionally Healthy Relationships
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
What if the “problem person” isn’t the problem at all? We sit down with Dr. Dave Miles of Vital Church to unpack how Family Systems Theory reveals the hidden dynamics that keep churches anxious, reactive, and stuck—and how non‑anxious leadership creates room for real change. Dave traces a formative interim pastorate that ended in a blowup, the Friedman books that reframed his perspective, and the moment he realized visible conflicts are often symptoms of deeper patterns layered into a church’s history.
Across the conversation, we challenge the myth that sameness equals intimacy, showing why forced uniformity breeds anxiety and shallow community. Dave shares a vivid story about a congregation’s outrage over the word “auditorium” and how calm listening, a sincere apology, and a steady biblical frame lowered the temperature while naming the true attachment issues beneath the surface. We explore practical tools for diagnosis: building a church timeline on the wall, color-coding celebrations and wounds, and capturing lessons learned so the congregation uncovers its actual values. When people see what they truly reward with time and money, ownership grows—and so does the will to change.
Expect sabotage when systems shift. We map out how to recognize reactivity, avoid triangulation, and hold steady to mission through ministry outcomes tailored to each church. Then we point toward a sacred assembly—public confession around specific systemic misalignments—as a catalytic moment for humility, unity, and forward momentum. Along the way, we wrestle with corporate responsibility in a hyper‑individual age and make the case that renewal is ultimately spiritual formation: leaders managing themselves under Christ, staying connected while telling the truth, and guiding people from denial to discipleship.
If your church keeps circling the same conflicts, this conversation offers a path: diagnose patterns, lower anxiety, name reality, and move together toward mission. Subscribe, share this episode with your leadership team, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—what pattern do you think your church needs to name next?
Resources
- Edwin H. Friedman, A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
- Ron Richardson, Creating a Healthier Church
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
We trace how discernment and differentiation work together to form courage, humility, and psychological safety in church leadership. Acts 15 becomes a live case study for speaking with clarity without control and for resisting isolation while staying close to the relational line.
• rejecting the “Me and Jesus” shortcut to wisdom
• Acts 15 as a model for community discernment
• reactivity versus adaptivity in tense conversations
• psychological safety that invites quiet voices
• courage for truth telling without control
• differentiation without isolation and the one-anothers
• accountability for pastors and dominant leaders
• practical cues for better meetings and decisions
Resources
- Pete Scazzero – Emotionally Healthy Spirituality
- Edwin H. Friedman – A Failure of Nerve
- Edwin H. Friedman – Generation to Generation
- Murray Bowen – Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
- Amy C. Edmondson – The Fearless Organization
- Brené Brown – Daring Greatly
- Brad Paisley – Me and Jesus (song)
- Dr. Kenneth R. Quick – The Eighth Letter
Differentiation – Living with clarity about your identity, values, and calling while remaining connected without being controlled.
Discernment – Humbly seeking the Spirit’s wisdom together, beyond mere decision-making.
Reactivity – Anxious, emotional pushback that manipulates or dominates.
Adaptivity – Withdrawing or yielding your voice out of insecurity or fear.
Psychological Safety – A relational environment where people can speak honestly without fear of threat.
Trialogue – A relational awareness in which two people engage while attending prayerfully to the Spirit’s presence.
Isolation – Withdrawal from relational closeness and accountability, often mistaken for differentiation.
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
What if the missing link in your leadership isn’t a new strategy but a deeper way of being? We open up the connection between differentiation and discernment, showing how identity, humility, and the Spirit’s guidance shape leaders who can face pressure without losing soul or mission. Rather than treating them as competing ideas, we weave them together as one spiritual practice grounded in Scripture and tested in real church life.
We start with differentiation as Jesus and Paul lived it: knowing who you are. Then we pivot to discernment—not as a decision hack, but as a communal pursuit of wisdom from above. We explore how elder teams and congregations can pray, debate , and listen together until they can say, “It seemed good to the Spirit and to us.”
If you’re a pastor, elder, or lay leader longing for Spirit-led clarity without the noise, this conversation offers a path forward—biblically rooted, relationally honest, and designed for real churches. Subscribe, share with your team, and leave a review with one practice your church uses to listen for God together.
Resources
- Pete Scazzero – Emotionally Healthy Spirituality
- Edwin H. Friedman – A Failure of Nerve
- Edwin H. Friedman – Generation to Generation
- Murray Bowen – Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
- Amy C. Edmondson – The Fearless Organization
- Brené Brown – Daring Greatly
- Brad Paisley – Me and Jesus (song)
- Dr. Kenneth R. Quick – The Eighth Letter
Differentiation – Living with clarity about your identity, values, and calling while remaining connected without being controlled.
Discernment – Humbly seeking the Spirit’s wisdom together, beyond mere decision-making.
Reactivity – Anxious, emotional pushback that manipulates or dominates.
Adaptivity – Withdrawing or yielding your voice out of insecurity or fear.
Psychological Safety – A relational environment where people can speak honestly without fear of threat.
Trialogue – A relational awareness in which two people engage while attending prayerfully to the Spirit’s presence.
Isolation – Withdrawal from relational closeness and accountability, often mistaken for differentiation.
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
A slammed Bible, a 2 a.m. email, and a congregation holding its breath—our fictional case study feels uncomfortably real because the patterns are everywhere. We walk through a pastor’s unraveling and a church’s long memory, tracing how chronic anxiety, low trust, and an aversion to critique grow into a culture where secrets linger and leadership freezes. Using family systems theory, we map the difference between the thing, the emotion, and the reaction to that emotion, then show how differentiation helps a leader stay present, speak clearly, and stop striving for acceptance through outcomes.
We dig into the pastor’s family story—authoritarian father, unspoken grief, cutoff siblings—and how attachment wounds often turn gifted leaders into reactors under stress. Then we widen the lens to the church’s history: a golden era without transparency, mishandled allegations, and decisions that eroded credibility. You’ll hear practical steps for change: multi-perspective narrative gathering, clear and open processes, predictable communication rhythms, and prioritization that targets what truly moves the needle on trust. We also explore the culture shift from guilt-innocence to shame-honor, explaining why messages of forgiveness must be paired with robust language of adoption and belonging to calm anxious systems.
This is a masterclass in non-anxious leadership: own your part without self-protection, invite accountability without fear, and lead at a humane pace that respects people’s real lives. Whether you’re a pastor, elder, or lay leader, you’ll leave with a framework to diagnose reactivity, resist scapegoating, and rebuild trust one transparent step at a time. If this conversation equips you or someone you serve, share it with your team, subscribe for future case studies, and leave a review to help others find the show.
Some Useful Links:
- Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) – official denominational site
- Vital Church Ministry – church consulting and revitalization
- The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness: The Path to True Christian Joy - Tim Keller
- Created for Connection: The “Hold Me Tight” Guide for Christian Couples (Sue Johnson & Kenneth Sanderfer)
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
Change exposes what a church feels before it reveals what a church thinks. We dive into the emotional life of congregations—why two churches with the same theology can react in opposite ways—and how leaders can read reactivity, lower anxiety, and guide people toward gospel health. Drawing from family systems theory, we unpack complementarity, the pursuer‑withdrawer dance, and the pitfalls of fusion and cutoff. Then we connect those insights to pastoral practice: using the GRACE analysis to name grief and celebrate hope, taking a true morale pulse, and choosing presence over pressure when resistance surfaces.
You’ll hear concrete ways to shape Sunday spaces that actually calm the room: normalizing lament, embracing purposeful silence, and preaching texts that dignify sorrow without surrendering to it. In the boardroom, we talk psychological safety, honest check‑ins, and inviting staff and lay leaders to share the “intel” you need to steward the system well. We also face the hard truth Friedman warned about: unhealthy systems often expel healthy leaders to preserve the status quo. Rather than fight or flee, we show how differentiated leadership stays connected, refuses to mirror anxiety, and keeps moving toward people with the most powerful question in conflict: “Help me understand.”
If you’re navigating sabotage, chronic resistance, or the slow freeze of a stuck culture, this conversation will help you discern process from content, apply grace and truth without flinching, and keep your eyes fixed on the aim: a secure people sent on mission. Listen, share with your team, and tell us where you’re seeing reactivity and how you’re responding. If this helped you, subscribe and leave a review so more leaders can find it.
Resources for you
- “The GRACE Analysis” - The Church Renewal Podcast S3 E24
- Ken Quick Pt 1 of 3 CRP S3.5 E3
Ken Quick Pt 2 of 3 CRP S3.5 E2
Ken Quick Pt 3 of 3 CRP S3.5 E1 - Ephesians 4:11 - 16 “grow up into Christ who is the head” , ESV
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If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
Happy New Year!!!
Once again, our regularly scheduled program is going delayed by 1 day to give you another little break to close out 2025 and get your feet settled strong for the start of 2026.
We'll be back tomorrow morning @ 7 AM with the next episode. But for today, go rest, chat, write, ponder, reflect, and plan for a year full of God's provision, guidance, and love. Remember, He is at work through you to love a world that does not yet worship Him. Walk with Jesus in your ambassadorship today, tomorrow and this year!
Cheers!
M & J
PS,
If you want to check out Daily Gains 90, Jeremy's personal podcast, please click the link below.
https://open.spotify.com/show/5VxbcUSqkgwFzVHNZe4VhB?si=Canwrj8STGi2eXSVRy0ltA
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
We look at how invisible loyalties and family ledgers shape leaders, congregations, and the way power moves through a church. Ken Quick helps us trade loyalty demands for faithfulness, trace generational wounds, and move from fixing problems to healing a body.
• invisible ledgers of owing and being owed
• family of origin shaping leadership reactions
• church origin stories imprinting power dynamics
• loyalty vs faithfulness as a guiding frame
• fair expectations that are clear and agreed
• hiring swings and scapegoating after conflict
• shifting from problem-fixing to wound-healing
• tracing pain across generations with hope
• reordering priorities under God for courage
We appreciate when you like, subscribe, rate, or review our show whenever you're listening
Resources for you
- Ken Quick – Healing the Heart of Your Church, The 8th Letter
- Stephen R. Covey – The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
- Edwin H. Friedman – Generation to Generation
- Edwin H. Friedman – A Failure of Nerve
- Murray Bowen – Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
- Peter Scazzero – Emotionally Healthy Relationships
- Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagy – Between Give and Take, Invisible Loyalties
Exodus 20:5 – Generational patterns affecting later generations.
Matthew 18:15–17 – Addressing issues directly and relationally.
Galatians 6:1–2 – Bearing one another’s burdens as part of healing.
1 Corinthians 12:12–27 – The church as a body, not a machine or business.
Ephesians 4:15–16 – Growth and healing of the body through truth and love.
Terms
Family of Origin – The family system in which a person is raised and first learns values, roles, and emotional patterns.
Projection – Attributing unresolved family-of-origin dynamics onto present relationships, including onto God.
Knee-Jerk Hiring – Swinging from one leadership extreme to another in reaction to past dysfunction.
Scapegoating – Assigning blame
Support the show
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If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
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Merry, Merry Christmas, to all of you, the best podcast audience and group of friends we could hope for. We pray that the grace of Jesus would be overflowing to you where ever you are today, and with whomever you are celebrating.
We will be back tomorrow morning @ 7 AM with our regularly scheduled program. But for today, we simply want to say thanks for being a part of this journey, courageously invest in the lives of the people around you wherever God has planted you, and grow in trust of the unfailing goodness and the overwhelming power of the love of God towards you in Christ Jesus.
Warmly,
M & J
Warmly,
M & J
Support the show
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Hidden forces decide how we relate long before we name them. We sat down with Dr. Ken Quick to unpack Ivan Nagy’s “invisible loyalties,” a family systems lens that explains why churches so often feel like they’re living under unspoken contracts. Think of relationships as ledgers with credits and debits: gifts given, support expected, bids for connection that get received or ignored. When those ledgers are healthy, gratitude sets the tone. When they’re distorted, quiet debts become leverage and unity gets confused with silence.
We trace how family-of-origin patterns shape staff culture, elder dynamics, and the Sunday-morning hallway. You’ll hear why a congregant’s critique is often a bid for relationship, how historical hurts pre-load new leaders with negative balance, and where transactional leadership harms trust. We also wrestle with loyalty’s darker side: the “church princess” no one confronts, the blackballing that punishes honest staff, and the narcissistic demand for allegiance that corrodes discipleship.
Resources
- Ivan Boszormenyi-Nagy – Invisible Loyalties
- Edwin H. Friedman – Generation to Generation
- Edwin H. Friedman – A Failure of Nerve
- Murray Bowen – Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
- Chuck DeGroat – When Narcissism Comes to Church
Exodus 20:12 – Honoring parents as a lifelong relational obligation.
Romans 13:8 – Owing nothing except love.
John 13:34–35 – Love as the identifying mark of Christian community.
Definitions
Invisible Loyalties – Nagy’s concept that family and relational systems carry intergenerational obligations and debts.
Relational Ledger – The internal accounting of credits and debits that shapes expectations and reactions in relationships.
Loyalty – A patterned sense of owed allegiance within a system; can be healthy or distorted into obligation or coercion.
Family Systems Theory – A framework understanding individuals through emotional patterns and roles within their relational systems.
Family of Origin – The system in which one first learns relational roles, values, and patterns.
Honor–Shame / Owing Dynamics – Cultural and relational expectations of gratitude, obligation, and allegiance inherited across generations.
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Power is always present in a church—on paper and in the room—and it’s either fueling discipleship and mission or feeding anxiety and control. We pull back the curtain on how leadership structures, unofficial influencers, and unspoken loyalties shape the emotional process of a congregation far more than most content disputes ever will.
Matt and Jeremy map out the difference between pastor-dominated and elder-dominated cultures and the healthier “first among equals” posture that allows an eldership to lead with clarity and humility. We talk plainly about matriarchs and patriarchs, the costs of suppressing gifts (including women’s gifts in complementarian settings), and why comfort often masquerades as conviction. Then we introduce nine biblical cultural dynamics—the Great Commission, love of God and neighbor, gospel centrality, means of grace, biblical membership and leadership, transformation, and reformation—as a practical diagnostic for renewal. Along the way, we name golden calves, worship wars, and the post‑pandemic reality of disengagement that strains volunteer pipelines and raises system-wide anxiety.
Family Systems Theory gives us tools to spot triangles, avoid being triangulated, and lead as a non‑anxious presence. We distinguish content from process so leaders don’t waste energy “winning” arguments while losing relationships and mission. Drawing from Philippians and Acts 15, we model a path of humility, direct communication, and prayerful discernment that recenters a congregation on Jesus, lowers reactivity, and reopens space for evangelism and discipleship. If your church is stuck in chronic conflict, drifting from mission, or beholden to unofficial power brokers, this conversation offers language, frameworks, and next steps to realign power with purpose and move forward together.
If this resonates, subscribe and share with a ministry friend. Leave a review to help more pastors and elders find practical help for church health and mission.
References
- Edwin H. Friedman, Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue (foundation for the “process vs. content,” “anxiety is contagious,” and “circuit breaker” ideas.
- Family Systems Theory (Bowen) — differentiation, triangles, anxiety contagion
- 1 Peter 5:7
- Philippians 2:1–11
- Acts 15
- Matthew 11:28–30
- Luke 9:23
- The Democratization of American Christianity by Nathan O. Hatch
- “Comfort Is the Hidden Idol of Americans”, Matt Bohling
Support the show
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If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
When does a church’s passion for truth quietly turn into pressure to conform? We take an honest look at the difference between unity and uniformity, drawing from Romans 14, family systems thinking, and years of practical ministry to show why love and conscience create a stronger body than social sameness ever could. Instead of settling every debatable matter by decree, we explore how Paul invites believers to be fully convinced before the Lord while refusing contempt and judgment—an approach that requires more courage, empathy, and spiritual dependence than quick-fix rules.
We get practical about “surrounding togetherness pressure,” the subtle group dynamics that push everyone to align on third- and fourth-tier issues. From politics and schooling choices to secondary doctrinal distinctives, we surface the flashpoints that regularly divide otherwise aligned Christians. Then we re-center on what must be uniform—Christ’s person and work, repentance and faith, core orthodoxy—and where principled freedom should prevail. Along the way, we confront identity anxiety, the urge to build extra fences for safety, and the temptation to play Holy Spirit in one another’s lives.
Differentiation becomes the throughline: hold your convictions, stay emotionally connected, and dignify the other’s agency without ceding first things. That’s not isolation; it’s the soil where trust grows and real discipleship happens. If Jesus said the world would know us by our love, not our sameness, then healthy churches must cultivate cultures where conscience is honored, mercy governs disputes, and delegated authority stays within biblical limits. Listen to be refreshed in gospel proportion, equipped with language for triage, and encouraged to build communities where unity thrives without erasing difference.
If this conversation helps you lead or love your church better, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so others can find the show. Your feedback helps more leaders pursue gospel‑shaped community.
Resources
- Jack Shitama, Anxious Church, Anxious People “differentiation” language used in family systems context;
- Romans 14(conscience, disputable matters
- Ephesians 4:4–6 “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”
- Ephesians 2:14 dividing wall of hostility
- Matthew 22:37–40 greatest commandment
- Matthew 23:23 tithing mint and cumin; weightier matters
- Luke 14:5 and Matthew 12:11 ox in a ditch on Sabbath
- Matthew 22:1–14 wedding garment parable
Support the show
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What if the real problem isn’t the conflict you can see, but the quiet anxiety beneath it—fed by image management, blame, and good things loved too much? We go straight to the heart of church renewal: why gospel-centered repentance, not better tactics, restores trust, lowers system anxiety, and makes space for the Spirit’s comfort.
We start where Scripture starts, tracing the first blame shift in Eden and contrasting it with David’s Godward confession. Then we get practical about what repentance really is: not just “I’m sorry I yelled,” but naming the deeper idol—control, nostalgia, efficiency, even a beloved hymn—that felt at risk. When leaders admit fault and point to Jesus, authority strengthens, not shrinks. Psychological safety grows; truth can be spoken without fear; mission outranks image. Along the way, we unpack the difference between content, context, and container, and why mistaking containers for the gospel keeps churches tense and brittle.
You’ll hear concrete steps for pastors and elders to build a repentance culture: invite outside perspective, return to sidelined truth-tellers, confess first in leadership meetings, and teach people how to identify heart idols. Expect a tone that is playful yet serious, honest about grief, and hopeful about what God can do with a humble people. If you’re longing for a calmer church, truer leadership, and fewer scapegoats, this conversation offers language, frameworks, and courage to begin.
If this resonated, share it with your team, subscribe for more church renewal conversations, and leave a review to help other leaders find it.
Resources
- Genesis 3 – Adam and Eve’s blame-shifting in the Garden
- Psalm 51 – “Against You and You only have I sinned”
- 2 Corinthians 1:3-4 – God of all comfort
- Jeremiah 3 – Call to return; “broken cisterns” imagery continues into
- Jeremiah 2:13
- Galatians 5:22-23 – Fruit of the Spirit
- Romans 1:21-23 – Idolatry: exchanging the glory of God for created things
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Matt and Jeremy hope that you have a very joyful and connected and Happy Thanksgiving. We are going to be with our families today, pressing to connection, and maybe even against some togetherness pressures. But always mindful of where we end, and the other person begins. (I couldn't resist -... Man, there are potential differentiation jokes everywhere!)
We are going to air the episode that would have gone live today - tomorrow. Please look for it on Friday the 28th (2025) as it's a really good one. For now, Turn us off, and go delight in your friendships, family, and invest in the relationships that God has blessed you with.
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Leadership under pressure isn’t about having the sharpest argument—it’s about holding steady when anxiety spikes. We sit down with Dan Werthman to explore how family systems theory helps pastors lead with presence instead of panic, especially when shame, polarization, and perpetual urgency try to set the agenda. Dan shares a vivid case of an overfunctioning lead pastor and the underfunctioning culture that followed, showing how accurate naming, sabbatical rhythms, and clear responsibility can reset a team toward health.
Together we unpack triangles and the subtle ways pastors get pulled into conflicts they don’t own. Dan’s distinction is freeing: ministry requires entering triangles, but being triangulated happens when we abandon emotional neutrality to win approval or avoid disappointment. We walk through practical tools—preparation, pausing, and reflection—that help leaders notice physiological cues (tight stomach, racing thoughts), slow the fight-flight-freeze response, and re-engage with clarity. Along the way, we connect insights from Friedman, Gilbert, Shitama, and Steinke to a deeply Christian center: love God, love your neighbor, and refuse to confuse enablement with care.
If you’ve felt the weight of “live monkeys” dropped on your desk, or watched your yes become everyone else’s habit, this conversation offers a path back to thoughtful, Christ-centered leadership. You’ll hear language for overfunctioning, frameworks for emotional neutrality, and ways to ground hard conversations in presence rather than pressure—so your church can mature, not just manage. If this resonates, share it with a fellow leader, subscribe for more, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your voice helps more pastors lead with calm in anxious times.
References
- Edwin H. Friedman — Generation to Generation (triangles & family systems in congregations)
- The Bowen Center — “Triangles”
- Pete Scazzero — Emotionally Healthy Relationships (clarifying expectations tool)
“Clarify Expectations” overview - John & Julie Gottman — Bids for Connection
- The 10 Minute Bible Hour
- Jack Shitama — The Non-Anxious Leader Podcast
Anxious Church, Anxious People - Luke 17:3–4
Matthew 5:23–24
Matthew 18:15–17
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Ever wondered why the same church conflict keeps showing up with different names? We sit down with intentional interim pastor and certified Christian conciliator Dan Werthman to unpack how family systems theory, shame awareness, and differentiation can turn anxious reactivity into steady, compassionate leadership.
Dan’s path—from Air Force JAG and civil litigation to the pulpit and peacemaking—gives him a rare lens on church transitions. He explains why process matters more than content, how triggers formed in our families of origin hijack ministry moments, and why pastors must do their own work before trying to “fix” a congregation. We explore practical tools: mapping genograms to see multigenerational patterns, refusing triangles, slowing urgency, and using calm, clear statements that lower anxiety without losing conviction.
Across the conversation, we lean into the hard truth that forgiveness often
We truly see the stories that shaped our parents and ourselves. Dan describes how curiosity-based conversations, guided by a coach, deepened compassion and shifted his leadership presence. If you’re navigating a transition, leading a conflicted team, or simply tired of repeating the same reactive patterns, this episode offers a grounded path forward: more clarity, more connection, and a church culture that breathes instead of bracing.
If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who leads under pressure, and leave a rating or review to help more pastors find practical tools for renewal.
Resources
- Ronald W. Richardson, Becoming a Healthier Pastor
- Roberta M. Gilbert, The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory
- Edwin H. Friedman, Generation to Generation. info.gottman.com
- Jack Shitama,
- Anxious Church, Anxious People
- If You Met My Family, You’d Understand
- The Non-Anxious Leader Podcast
- The Bowen Center for the Study of the Family.
- Peacemaker Ministries / The Peacemaker (Ken Sande)
- John and Julie Gottman, Fight Right
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Matt and Jeremy explore triangulation as one of the most common relational patterns in families and churches, often forming unconsciously as a way of managing anxiety or tension.
• Triangles are the most stable relational form, which is why they're so common and hard to escape
• Unhealthy triangulation occurs when two people talk about a third party not present with the goal of enlisting help
• Systems will focus energy on protecting their weakest parts at the expense of their strongest parts
• Pastors and leaders often get triangulated when people bring them "monkeys" (problems) that aren't theirs to solve
• Differentiation allows leaders to stay emotionally present while refusing to take responsibility for others' issues
• Recognizing when you're being triangulated helps you respond with "What do you think you should do about that?"
• The goal isn't to solve people's problems but to help them mature in handling their own challenges
• Breaking free from triangulation may disappoint people but ultimately creates healthier church systems
Whether you're a pastor, church leader, or simply someone who wants healthier relationships, this episode offers transformative insights for recognizing and resisting unhealthy triangles. Subscribe to the Church Renewal Podcast for more wisdom on creating healthier church systems where maturity can flourish.
Resources
- Edwin H. Friedman Generation to Generation (triangles & family systems in congregations)
- The Bowen Center “Triangles” (concept overview)
- Pete Scazzero Emotionally Healthy Relationships
- (clarifying expectations tool)
- (“Clarify Expectations” overview:
- John & Julie Gottman Bids for Connection (how to notice/respond to bids)
- The 10 Minute Bible Hour (podcast Jeremy referenced)
- Jack Shitama — The Non-Anxious Leader Podcast (story about staying non-anxious / not catching the “Christmas Eve” complaint ball)
(Book often paired with this topic: — - Scripture passages cited on going directly to a brother/sister (not triangulating):
Luke 17:3–4
Matthew 5:23–24
Matthew 18:15–17
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We explore how anxiety moves through church systems and why leaders must act as circuit breakers who stay connected, calm, and clear under pressure. We ground the practice in biblical images of shepherding, trust, and identity secured in Christ rather than outcomes.
• herding and the identified patient masking deeper issues
• positive and negative feedback loops shaping reactions
• anxiety flowing up and down between pastors and congregations
• circuit breaker leadership that absorbs anxiety without transmitting it
• the difference between calm connection and dismissive detachment
• practical examples of amplifying versus regulating fear
• rooting non‑anxious presence in trust in God and clear identity
• rhythms of prayer, reflection, and measured response that steady culture
We appreciate when you like, subscribe, rate, or review our show whenever you're listening
Resource A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix — Edwin
- A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix — Edwin H. Friedman. ChurchPublishing.org
- Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety Jack Shitama. Amazon
- Confessional document
– Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 8 “Of Christ the Mediator.” EPCEW - Biblical Passages we talked about
- Psalm 23.
- Daniel 3 (Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego).
- Matthew 3–4 (Baptism of Jesus; Temptation in the wilderness).
- Matthew 14:22–33 (Jesus walks on the water).
- Galatians 6:2, 6:5 (bear one another’s burdens; each will bear his own load).
- 1 Peter 5:7 (casting your anxieties on him).
- Joshua 1:9 (be strong and courageous).
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Leaders carry family baggage—patterns of conflict avoidance, expectations and wounds—into their ministry. Family of origin dynamics shape leadership instincts, blind spots and identity formation in ways that affect entire church systems.
• Reactivity vs. responsiveness: How our limbic system triggers fight/flight/freeze responses learned in childhood
• Understanding the transformation process between input and output in our responses
• Biblical examples like David show how unresolved family patterns resurface and magnify in leadership contexts
• Unconscious blind spots in leadership that stem from family dynamics
• Practical tools like genograms and timelines help identify patterns across generations
• The goal isn't blaming the past but understanding how it shapes present behaviors
• Reflection on past and present is necessary for the future to be different
• Even stable families have dysfunctional patterns that influence leadership
Ready to understand what shaped you so you can lead more effectively? Listen now and take your first step toward greater leadership clarity and health.
Resources
- Peter Scazzero — Emotionally Healthy Discipleship
- Milan & Kay Yerkovich — How We Love
References
- David & Bathsheba; Absalom’s Rebellion 2 Samuel 11–19
- Psalm 51 David’s prayer of repentance after his confrontation with Nathan.
- Genesis & the Patriarchs — Abraham, Isaac, Jacob: recurring family sins (lying, favoritism, rivalry) passed down generationally.
- King Solomon & Rehoboam 1 Kings 11–12: inherited patterns of idolatry and pride leading to division.
Key Concepts
- Family of Origin Work
The process of identifying patterns, wounds, and formative experiences in one’s family history that continue to influence present behavior and leadership. -
Reactivity vs. Responsiveness
- Reactivity: automatic, limbic, defensive “fight/flight/freeze” responses shaped by past wounds.
- Responsiveness: thoughtful, Spirit-guided engagement filtered through identity in Christ.
- Genogram
A multi-generational family map that includes names and dates, AND also patterns of relationships, trauma, conflict, addictions, divorces, and other significant events. - Life Timeline
A personal history tool that charts formative experiences and events across a lifetime to identify recurring patterns. - Blind Spots
Habits or dysfunctions inherited or internalized unconsciously that remain hidden until confronted.
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Jack Shitama joins us for part two of our conversation on family systems theory, exploring how Christian leaders can move from understanding differentiation to living it out in practice.
• Tracing Jack's journey from discovering Friedman's concept of "non-anxious presence" to making these ideas accessible through his books
• How the gospel uniquely empowers Christians to differentiate despite the costs
• Understanding Jesus as the ultimate model of self-differentiation and non-anxious presence
• Moving from insight to practice through preparation, pausing in difficult moments, and reflection
• Building habits of self-regulation through regular reflection and "think time"
• Navigating the challenges of shame-honor dynamics in contemporary culture
• The critical importance of loving other Christians with whom we disagree
Whether you're navigating church conflict, family dynamics, or personal growth, this episode delivers practical wisdom for developing the habits that transform anxiety into presence. Listen now to discover how preparation, pausing, and reflection can help you express your values clearly while maintaining meaningful connection with others.
Resources
- Part 1: Special Guest Jack Shitama: Learning to lead in anxious systems
- Friedman, A Failure of Nerve — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1596272791
- Herrington, Taylor & Creech, The Leader’s Journey — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1119535298 Amazon
- Patterson et al., Crucial Conversations — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1260474186 Amazon
- Bradberry & Greaves, Emotional Intelligence 2.0 — https://www.amazon.com/dp/0974320625 Amazon
- Ken Sande — Relational Wisdom 360 — https://rw360.org/ Relational Wisdom Institute
- Positive Intelligence (Shirzad Chamine) — https://www.positiveintelligence.com/ Positive Intelligence
- Steinke, Uproar: Calm Leadership in Anxious Times — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1506458559 Amazon
- The Non-Anxious Leader (podcast) — https://thenonanxiousleader.com/podcast-episode-300-pain-and-responsibility/ The Nonanxious Leader
- The Non-Anxious Leader (site) — https://thenonanxiousleader.com/
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Jack Shitama brings clarity and wisdom to family systems theory in this transformative conversation about leadership, anxiety, and healthy church relationships. Drawing from decades of experience as a pastor, author, and coach, Jack breaks down complex concepts into accessible insights that can revolutionize how ministry leaders approach challenging situations.
The conversation begins with Jack sharing his personal journey into family systems thinking. His encounter with Edwin Friedman's work "Generation to Generation" opened his eyes to seeing congregational dynamics through a different lens—one that helped him stop taking things personally and instead view difficult behaviors as expressions of anxiety rather than personal attacks.
At the heart of the discussion is the concept of differentiation—knowing where you end and others begin, or as Jack puts it, "being a self and allowing others to be the same." This crucial leadership capacity creates healthy emotional space that enables others to mature.
Well talk about:
-
people-pleasing pastors who tend toward adaptivity (giving in without standing up for themselves) rather than traditional reactivity (becoming defensive or aggressive).
-
Navigating criticism, recognizing sabotage, and responding as a non-anxious presence
Resources
- Friedman, Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue — https://www.amazon.com/dp/0896213417 Amazon
- “Genogram” overview — https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-genogram-5186652 EdrawMax
- Jack Shitama (Author)
- Anxious Church, Anxious People — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1732009317 Amazon
- If You Met My Family, You’d Understand — https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60376266-if-you-met-my-family-you-d-understand Amazon
- Everyone Loves a Non-Anxious Presence — https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/56761973-everyone-loves-a-non-anxious-presence Amazon
- The Non-Anxious Leader (Website) (Podcast)
- Lencioni, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team — https://www.amazon.com/dp/0787960756
- Boszormenyi-Nagy & Spark, Invisible Loyalties — https://www.amazon.com/dp/0876681765
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Matt and Jeremy explore the concept of differentiation from outcome, revealing how pastors can remain faithful without tying their identity to ministry results. This liberating approach helps church leaders break free from unhealthy patterns of control or disappointment.
• Differentiation typically applies to relationships with people, but many leaders need to differentiate from outcomes as well
• Approximately 75% of pastors are externally driven (people-pleasers), while 25% are internally driven by goals and outcomes
• Both types of pastors can become "fused" to outcomes, making their identity dependent on things they cannot control
• Satan attacks leaders by suggesting failure means rejection by God
• The parable of talents illustrates the importance of faithfulness rather than control of outcomes
• Community spiritual discernment requires holding decisions open-handedly
• Jesus modeled "intentional faithfulness" in Gethsemane by submitting to the Father's will
• Leaders are called to be intentionally faithful with what they've been given—nothing more, nothing less
Whether you're struggling with control issues, battling disappointment, or simply seeking a healthier approach to ministry, this conversation provides practical wisdom for releasing outcomes to God while remaining faithful to your calling.
Resources
- Edwin H. Friedman — A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix Book link
References
- Parable of the Talents Matthew 25:14–30
- King Saul’s Unlawful Sacrifice 1 Samuel 13:8–14
- The Golden Calf Exodus 32
- Jesus in Gethsemane Matthew 26:36–46
- James’ Teaching James 4:13–15
- Paul’s Reminder Philippians 2:12–13
Key Concepts
- Differentiation from Outcome
Distinguishing personal identity and value from the results of one’s leadership or goals. A recognition neither success or failure confer identity or value. - Fusion to Outcomes
When one’s identity is tied to whether goals succeed (control) or whether people are pleased (people-pleasing). - Control vs. Trust
The false response to failed outcomes is to seize control; the faithful response is to entrust results to God. - Intentional Faithfulness
The responsibility of Christian leaders is not to guarantee outcomes, but to faithfully steward what God has given — their gifts, opportunities, and people.
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Systems naturally strive for equilibrium, but when that equilibrium is dysfunctional, it fiercely resists healthy change. We explore the foundational concepts of family systems theory and how they apply to church leadership.
• Differentiation comes from biology – distinct cells that touch and connect while maintaining their unique identity
• Common errors include never approaching the line (emotional cutoff), stepping over the line into others' space (control), or failing to push back when boundaries are crossed
• A non-anxious presence means responding calmly despite feeling internal anxiety
• Differentiation requires understanding your identity in Christ deeply enough to resist togetherness pressure
• Leaders who differentiate create space for others to mature, though it often creates discomfort
• The gospel enables us to "afford to differentiate" because our identity is secure in Christ
• Differentiated leadership evokes different responses: attraction, repulsion, or sabotage
Books / Authors Mentioned
- Edwin H. Friedman — A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
Link (Amazon) - Jack Shitama — Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety
Link (Amazon) - Jack Shitama — If You Met My Family, You’d Understand: A Family Systems Primer
Link (Amazon)
Non-Anxious Leader site (audio, resources) - Timothy Keller — The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness
Link (Amazon) - Curt Thompson — The Soul of Shame
(Amazon)
Organizations / Resources
- Vital Church Ministry — Organization specializing in interim pastoring and church diagnostics, founded by Dr. Dave Miles (previous CRP guest).
Link
Key Biblical References / Themes
- Paul to Timothy: “I know whom I have believed…” (2 Timothy 1:12)
- Moses interceding for Israel after the golden calf incident (Exodus 32).
- Pilate’s trial of Jesus: “I find no fault in him…” yet yielding to pressure (John 18–19).
- Identity and acceptance in Christ: “This is my Son…with whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17; 17:5)
Notes & Definitions — CRP S4E04
Differentiation
- The ability to remain connected to others while holding onto one’s own goals and values.
- Staying present in relationship without caving to “togetherness pressure” or withdrawing in fear.
Cutoff
- A response to relational anxiety where a person distances or detaches completely.
- “I can’t bear the tension, so I leave (emotionally or physically).”
Over-Functioning / Under-Functioning
- Over-functioning: Doing for others what they should do for themselves.
- Under-functioning: Avoiding responsibility and relying on others to take over.
- These are re
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Church systems automatically resist change even when transformation is desperately needed, creating a tension between healthy spirit-led renewal and our natural tendency to maintain familiar patterns. Recognizing how this dynamic plays out in congregations requires understanding both family systems theory and biblical principles for healthy church life.
• Churches function as systems that naturally seek homeostasis (stability)
• Systems theory originated in production studies before being applied to human organizations
• Healthy systems maintain an appropriate set point, while unhealthy ones stabilize around dysfunction
• Jesus' letters in Revelation show His desire for churches to change when their set points are misaligned
• "All change is loss" - people experience even positive changes as something to grieve
• Leaders must focus on emotional processes, not just biblical content
• Process vs. content is crucial - people resist change emotionally even when they agree intellectually
• Triangulation occurs when anxiety enters relationships and a third party is brought in
• Sabotage happens when systems resist leadership-initiated change
• Strategic patience is essential for leaders guiding congregations through necessary transitions
Resources & Materials from CRP S4E3
- Frederick Winslow Taylor – The Principles of Scientific Management (1911)
Foundational work in systems/production theory that influenced organizational and later family systems thinking.
Read free online (Project Gutenberg) -
Edwin H. Friedman
- Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue
Amazon link -
- A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
Amazon link
- A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
-
Jack Shitama
-
Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety
Amazon link -
- If You Met My Family, You’d Understand: A Guide to Family Systems Theory for Clergy and Church Leaders
Amazon link
- If You Met My Family, You’d Understand: A Guide to Family Systems Theory for Clergy and Church Leaders
-
- The Non-Anxious Leader Podcast (Jack reads the book in episodes ~50–60)
Podcast site
- The Non-Anxious Leader Podcast (Jack reads the book in episodes ~50–60)
- Roberta M. Gilbert – Extraordinary Relationships: A New Way of Thinking About Human Interactions
Introduction to Bowen Family Systems Theory’s eight core concepts.
Amazon link - Peter Block – Flawless Consulting: A Guide to Getting Your Expertise Used
Includes key chapters on understanding and navigating resistance.
Amazon link - Murray Bowen – Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
Foundational collection of Bowen’s papers, including his concepts of differentiation, homeostasis, triangles, and emotional process.
Amazon link
- Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue
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Churches, like families, instinctively resist change even when it's healthy because systems naturally seek stability—even dysfunctional stability.
• Family systems theory provides powerful insights for understanding church dynamics
• Western individualism misses our design for relationship and community
• Eastern collectivism correctly values community but can suppress healthy differentiation
• Jesus modeled perfect differentiation—maintaining values while staying connected
• Identity and acceptance cannot be self-manufactured but must be received
• When we try to work for acceptance rather than receive it, we create dysfunction
• The gospel uniquely addresses fear, guilt, and shame in church systems
• Church renewal requires addressing processes, not just content
• Self-differentiation means maintaining values while staying emotionally connected
• Healthy churches reflect both biblical authority and biblical acceptance
If you'd like to learn more about church renewal through a family systems approach, visit flourishcoaching.org or email info@flourishcoaching.org. We appreciate when you like, subscribe, rate or review our show, and please share this episode with someone who might benefit!
- The Bible (Luke’s genealogy)
Luke 3:23–38 — “…Adam, the son of God”
Read on Bible Gateway - C.S. Lewis – The Great Divorce
Analogy of hell as isolation and distance.
Amazon link | Free text at Internet Archive - Ron Rhodes – The Complete Guide to Christian Denominations
Reference to denominational history (Puritans → Congregationalists → Unitarian Universalists).
Amazon link -
Edwin H. Friedman
- Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue
Amazon link -
- A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
Amazon link
- A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
- R. Robert Creech – Family Systems and Congregational Life: A Leadership Model for Church Leaders
(Connected to the “Jesus as the most differentiated person” discussion, recurring theme across early episodes.)
Publisher link - Peter Scazzero – Emotionally Healthy Spirituality
Referenced in discussion of love as the true mark of maturity.
Amazon link
- Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue
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Dysfunction in churches stems from humanity's fallen nature and our propensity to break relationships with God, ourselves, and others. The gospel provides the only pathway to healing these fractured relationships and restoring healthy church systems.
• Most congregations function like extended families, making family systems theory applicable to church settings
• Family systems theory observes human behavior but doesn't provide solutions—only the gospel can truly heal
• The Trinity models perfect differentiated relationships—distinct persons in complete harmony
• Dysfunction originates in the fall and manifests in fear, guilt, and shame
• Satan uses a "pincer move"—suggesting God isn't trustworthy, then condemning us when we act independently
• Jesus demonstrates perfect differentiation by maintaining his identity while connecting with others
• Over-functioning (controlling) and under-functioning (abdicating responsibility) create unhealthy church dynamics
• The gospel restores our relationship with God, which then flows outward to heal relationships with ourselves and others
We invite you to join us for this season as we unpack family systems theory and its application to church renewal. Share this episode with friends and subscribe for more insights on building healthy church relationships.
Episode 1 Resources
Books & Authors
- Murray Bowen – Family Systems Theory (originating model of relational systems).
- Edwin H. Friedman – Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue (applies Bowen’s observations to congregations)
(Wikipedia, Guilford Press) - Edwin H. Friedman – A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix
(Amazon) - Michael Reeves – Delighting in the Trinity (helps articulate relational Trinitarian foundations for differentiation)
(Ligonier Ministries) - Jack Shitama – If You Met My Family, You’d Understand (family systems insights and personal story)
(Amazon)
Articles / Papers
- Robert Creech – Jesus and Differentiation of Self (Amazon).
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Only 24 hours left until season 4 of the church renewal podcast goes live. If you are ready to discover keys that will unlock patterns of communications disfunction relationship challenges mistrust apathy and reactivity join us tomorrow as we jump with both feet into the deep end. We are going to unpack family systems theory, and connect it to the theology and practical ministry application for you and your(dysfunctional) church.
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In edition to unpacking family systems theory, we are going to talk with several guests who have extensive personal and professional knowledge and experience working with leaders and churches to identify and correct church trauma. Heres a sneak peek at a few of our guests.
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Is a discussion on family systems theory more than just a psychological exercise? Absolutely! This season we're gonna unpack concepts of differentiation triangulation, scapegoating, and more from both the sociological and the theological perspective to help you be able to identify and move towards solutions in your personal leadership and in your church body.
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The Church Renewal Podcast is about to drop Season 4 on September 4th.
This season Jeremy and Matt will unpack the many ways that Family Systems Theory is beneficial to diagnosing church and church leadership dysfunction and congregational pain.
Save the date and join us for what we are sure will be an eye opening and tremendously useful season.
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Pastor Chris Bowen opens up about his journey stepping into a church marked by what he calls "congregational trauma" and how pastoral coaching through Flourish became a lifeline for both him and his congregation. When mentors advised him to find support as he began at New Covenant Fellowship, Chris sought someone who understood his denominational context and could provide both personal care and strategic guidance.
The conversation reveals the profound value of having a trusted partner when navigating church renewal. "Matt was someone where I could speak in confidence about ministry challenges, life challenges, personal challenges," Chris explains, highlighting how coaching created a safe space before he had built complete trust with his session. This pastoral dimension of coaching—where Matt functioned as "a shepherd to the shepherd"—emerges as perhaps the most significant benefit.
Beyond personal support, Matt introduced frameworks like the church life cycle model, facilitated session discussions about strategic priorities, and helped process difficult decisions necessary for moving forward. The results after two years speak volumes: improved metrics across both external measures like attendance and internal health indicators like staff culture and elder alignment.
What stands out most is Chris's genuine surprise at how well the renewal journey has progressed, rediscovering the joy of ministry in what he calls a "ministry sweet spot." His candid advice to other pastors considering similar transitions cuts to the heart of effective leadership: "Don't believe the lie that you're stronger than you really are." For church leaders walking through challenging seasons, this conversation offers both practical wisdom and renewed hope for the journey ahead.
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Matt and Jeremy continue their conversation with Dr. Dave Miles Founder of Vital Church Ministry and explore what Dave calls "the unholy trinity" plaguing many churches: idolatry, conflict, and power. With the warmth of pastors rather than clinical consultants, they unpack how these issues repeatedly surface in struggling congregations.
Dave shares a story that perfectly captures church idolatry—an elder deeply troubled by a moved pulpit on Easter Sunday—illustrating how physical objects and traditions often become more sacred than the mission itself. Beyond this unholy trinity, Dave explains two additional challenges: "hypostatic disunion" (when institutional structures overshadow vision) and theological drift into mere moralism. This shift toward practical, self-help Christianity has created what he calls "shallow spirituality" in many American churches.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn toward family systems theory, exploring how transitional pastors must maintain a non-anxious presence while facilitating difficult changes. When leaders question long-established patterns, anxiety naturally rises within congregations, requiring both compassion and courage to address effectively. Dave emphasizes that their approach isn't about organizational reengineering but shepherding people "for whom Christ died."
Looking to the future, they candidly discuss the sobering reality of 15,000 churches closing annually and 50% of pastors retiring within five years. This "winnowing" process, while painful, reflects Jesus' warnings in Revelation about removing lampstands from unfaithful churches. Yet amid these challenges, the conversation concludes with profound hope—reminding listeners that the Father's invitation always remains: "Turn back to me because I love you and I have all of my riches waiting for you."
Listen to the first Part of our discussion
Listen to the second part of our conversation
Learn more about Vital Church Ministry and get help for your congregation.
Ready to explore church renewal in your context? Connect with us at flourishcoaching.org or email info@flourishcoaching.org to discover how our team can help your ministry flourish wherever God has called you.
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What if your church's struggles aren't really about what they appear to be? In this thought-provoking second installment with Dr. Dave Miles Founder of Vital Church, we dive deep into the hidden emotional dynamics shaping church health and decline.
The conversation reveals a startling truth: beneath the surface of most church conflicts lie unaddressed emotional processes and unexamined patterns that Family Systems Theory helps uncover. "What looks like the problem is never the problem, ever," Dave shares, explaining how many church interventions fail because they never address root causes. When leaders bring unprocessed baggage from their families of origin into church leadership, reactive patterns emerge that resist true transformation.
The statistics are sobering—15,000 churches expected to close this year alone (that's 50 churches daily), another 15,000 unable to afford full-time pastors, and 25% of all American pastors retiring by 2030. But numbers tell only part of the story. The real crisis is one of identity and purpose, as churches have "lost the plot" of what it means to be Christ's body in the world. Drawing from Matthew 16, we explore how the church exists not for itself but as a blessing to all nations—a mission often obscured by institutional thinking.
Perhaps most poignant is our exploration of what people truly seek in church communities: love, acceptance, and belonging. Yet tragically, many find more genuine welcome in secular spaces than in congregations claiming to represent Christ's unconditional love. When churches misunderstand God's grace, they often extend the same conditional acceptance they believe God offers them—directly contradicting the gospel message. Join us for this challenging conversation about becoming non-anxious presences who can help churches rediscover their true calling.
Listen to the first part of our conversation with Dave
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Dr. Dave Miles has spent 31 years walking into church buildings where hope is dwindling, relationships are fractured, and the future seems uncertain. As founder of Vital Church Ministry, he's dedicated his career to being a spiritual first responder for congregations in crisis.
Growing up in Detroit's fundamentalist church scene, Dave found his faith truly blossomed through small group Bible study that "let the Bible speak for itself." This experience planted seeds for his future ministry, creating a passion for discovery-based discipleship approaches that would later shape his organization's DNA.
After completing doctoral work at Fuller Seminary focused on intentional interim ministry, Dave pioneered approaches to help churches navigate periods of transition. Unlike some early practitioners who took confrontational approaches to church intervention, Dave developed a methodology centered on spiritual discernment—what he describes as "seeking to know what the Spirit is saying to the church" and then facilitating movement in that direction.
What makes Dave's perspective particularly valuable is his observation of how American Christianity has transformed over three decades. When he began his work in the early 1990s, the United States was experiencing what he calls "the last gasps of Christendom"—a time when cultural Christianity still provided enough framework that evangelism could happen relatively quickly. Today's landscape requires churches to think like missionaries in a foreign land, prepared for "hours and hours of conversation" with people who lack basic Christian understanding.
The most profound challenge Dave encounters isn't just helping churches solve immediate leadership or structural problems. It's addressing a fundamental identity crisis where believers have never embraced their missionary calling as "ambassadors for Christ." His work involves not just diagnostic intervention but reorienting entire congregations toward this biblical identity that feels surprisingly new to many.
Ready to see your church move from survival to revival? Learn how intentional interim leadership might be the turning point your congregation needsLearn more about Vital Church Ministry at their website: www.vitalchurchministry.org . We HIGHLY recommend them!. You can also visit flourishcoaching.org to start the conversation about renewal.
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A church in crisis. A pastor who suddenly departed. Deep divisions over COVID and politics. This intimate conversation with Bill Scionella, ruling elder at Columbia Presbyterian Church, reveals the powerful journey of a congregation that found its way back from the brink through humility, assessment, and intentional leadership development.
When Columbia Presbyterian's pastor took a sabbatical and never returned in 2021, the leadership faced overwhelming challenges. Drawing from his experience with Baltimore Antioch Leadership Movement, Scionella recommended Flourish Coaching to guide their renewal process. What follows is a masterclass in church restoration that began not with quick fixes but with a profound elder retreat on pride and humility.
The comprehensive health assessment Flourish conducted uncovered seven critical areas needing attention, including the revelation that "elders weren't trusted because they weren't known" – a direct result of the previous pastor's leadership style. Rather than rushing to replace their pastor, Columbia Presbyterian took two years to heal, understand their community, and clarify their vision before conducting a methodical pastoral search.
The results speak volumes: within one year of installing their new pastor (remarkably, the first applicant who had previously interned at the church), attendance grew from under 200 to 275, giving increased by 25%, and most importantly, relationships were restored. As Bill reflects, "We did not hire Flourish to choose a pastor for us. We hired them to equip us to choose a pastor, and they couldn't have done it better."
Whether you're a church leader navigating crisis or simply seeking to strengthen your congregation's health, this episode offers invaluable wisdom on patience, diagnostic clarity, and the delicate balance between business principles and spiritual discernment in church leadership. Subscribe now to hear more stories of church renewal and practical guidance for flourishing wherever God has called you.
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Dr. Tom Harris, President of Interim Pastor Ministries returns for the final installment of our three-part conversation, delivering powerful insights into the universal challenges facing churches in transition. Drawing from decades of experience, Tom identifies two critical weaknesses that consistently plague congregations: inadequate leadership development and the abandonment of evangelism.
The leadership development crisis stems from a theological education system that fails to equip pastors with mentorship skills. Tom shares a compelling story of a pastor who transformed his church through intentional leadership development—hosting weekly mentorship breakfasts with emerging leaders over decades. This systematic approach created a rich pipeline of capable leaders who strengthened every aspect of church ministry. Without such intentionality, churches remain perpetually understaffed with qualified leaders who understand their mission.
Perhaps most alarming is Tom's sobering assessment of the pastoral recruitment crisis. Where theological schools once had 100 candidates for every church opening, that pipeline has diminished drastically. With 50% of current pastors retiring within five years across some denominations, we're approaching a leadership vacuum that threatens church sustainability. Youth ministry positions already go unfilled, signaling deeper problems upstream in ministerial calling and preparation.
Tom introduces his book outlining eight strategic actions churches can take to thrive during transitions, emphasizing that churches who complete intentional transition work become significantly more attractive to the shrinking pool of pastoral candidates. Despite these challenges, the conversation concludes with hope—reminding listeners that Jesus deeply loves his bride, even in her brokenness, and continues calling and equipping leaders to guide her forward. Connect with Interim Pastor Ministry at interimpastors.com or reach out to Flourish Coaching to discover how strategic transitional leadership can transform your church's transition into an opportunity for renewed mission and growth.
Part 1 of our conversation with Dr. Harris
Part 2 of our conversation with Tom
"Soaring Between Pastors: 8 Actions to Thrive During A Pastoral Transition" by Dr. Tom Harris
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What happens in the critical space between pastors can determine a church's future trajectory for years to come. Dr. Tom Harris President of Interim Pastor Ministries joins us to unpack why rushing to fill a pastoral vacancy might be the biggest mistake churches make during transitions.
Harris offers a compelling perspective on church identity, explaining how congregations often operate from the "imprint" of their previous pastor rather than discovering who they truly are. "Churches need to identify their true identity, not an inherited form or template," he shares, making a powerful case for intentional evaluation periods before launching into pastor searches.
Both Flourish Coaching and IPM approach transitions through structured processes that build congregational self-awareness. What makes these approaches powerful is their focus on first understanding history and present reality, then clarifying identity and direction, before searching for leadership that aligns with established vision. Churches that invest in this work find themselves making more successful pastoral matches and experiencing greater ministry continuity.
The conversation also reveals concerning trends in pastoral leadership, including decreased availability of energetic interim pastors post-COVID and fewer pastors entering ministry in key age demographics. These challenges highlight the growing importance of organizations that specialize in guiding churches through transitions effectively. How might your church benefit from a strategic approach to pastoral transition? The answers in this episode could transform how you view this critical season of ministry.
"Soaring Between Pastors: 8 Actions to Thrive During A Pastoral Transition" by Dr. Tom Harris
Moberg's Intentionality Grid resource
Part 1 of our conversation with Dr. Harris
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Dr. Tom Harris, President of Interim Pastor Ministries, brings three decades of hard-won wisdom to this conversation about the critical role of transitional leadership in churches experiencing pastoral change. With refreshing candor, Tom shares how he stumbled into interim ministry when interviewing for a permanent position at a struggling congregation. Recognizing their deeper needs for healing before welcoming another permanent pastor, Tom offered himself as an interim solution—launching a career that would span nine churches across America before assuming leadership of IPM.
Founded in 1990 by six denominational leaders who recognized that Sunday pulpit supply wasn't enough for churches in transition, Interim Pastor Ministries has grown to serve congregations across twenty different denominational traditions. The organization specializes in matching seasoned pastors with churches navigating the challenging waters between pastoral leadership.
What makes this conversation particularly valuable is Tom's insight into the counterintuitive nature of pastoral transitions. While most churches rush to find a replacement as quickly as possible, Tom explains why this often compounds existing problems. "Churches kick the can down the road," he observes, "and it ends up in the new pastor's yard." This powerful metaphor captures the essence of transitional ministry—creating space for congregations to address underlying issues rather than expecting the next pastor to magically solve them.
Tom also notes a concerning trend: churches today seem increasingly conflicted and resistant to honest self-evaluation. Yet he remains hopeful, sharing stories of congregations that finally embraced necessary change after years of struggle. The conversation illuminates how even healthy churches benefit from taking time between pastors to discover their true identity apart from their previous leader's imprint.
Moberg's Intentionality Grid resource
Interim Pastors Ministries is a great resource for church going through transition. Please reach out to them if you have a need.
Ready to learn how your church might benefit from intentional interim ministry? This episode offers practical wisdom for church leaders facing transition and insights for pastors called to this unique ministry field. Connect with us at flourishcoaching.org to continue the conversation about church renewal and transitional leadership.
"Soaring Between Pastors: 8 Actions to Thrive During A Pastoral Transition" by Dr. Tom Harris
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Navigating a pastoral transition represents one of the most pivotal moments in a church's life. When Grace Point Church in Pennsylvania faced this challenge, they discovered that the path forward wasn't something they needed to forge alone.
Steve, former elder board chairman and search committee leader, shares the vulnerable journey of realizing that despite having experienced leaders with corporate hiring backgrounds, pastoral transitions require a fundamentally different approach. "That realization that this is a task too big for us, that we had to just trust the Lord was going to deliver and that the Lord was preparing for us" became the cornerstone of their process.
The conversation reveals how a structured, biblically-grounded approach transformed potential anxiety and division into unity and confidence. Steve candidly discusses the initial reluctance some felt about seeking outside help, and how that perspective shifted dramatically once they committed to the process. "Don't try to do it alone. That route is a minefield," he cautions other churches facing similar transitions.
Perhaps most surprisingly, Grace Point discovered that their professional, thoughtful approach attracted pastoral candidates they initially thought were "beyond what we had envisioned we would be able to bring." The careful attention to church health assessment, congregational preparation, and systematic evaluation created an environment where both the church and potential pastors could clearly discern God's leading.
Whether you're a church leader currently navigating transition or simply want to prepare wisely for the future, this conversation offers practical insights on stewarding these pivotal seasons with wisdom, prayer, and outside perspective. Connect with us at flourishcoaching.org to learn more about how our team can support your church through leadership transitions and beyond.
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Dr. Ken Quick of Blessing Point Ministry continues his conversation with Matt and Jeremy about how Jesus speaks to His church as a corporate body and why many congregations struggle to hear Him. The powerful story of a ninth-grade girl in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania whose whispered insight resonated with an entire congregation demonstrates how God often speaks through the most humble members. Part 1 of this conversation. Listen to Part 2. Dr. Q.'s books and resources.
Books that will help you:
The 8th Letter
Healing the Heart of Your Church
• Churches often experience "corporate resonance" when Jesus speaks—everyone knows they've heard from Him
• Modern church culture has trained leaders to listen individually but not corporately as Christ's body
• Many churches are "misshapen" because they only recognize and utilize certain spiritual gifts
• Current church leaders must sometimes take responsibility for historical wounds in their congregation
• Church board burnout is often a symptom of deeper spiritual dysfunction
• Learning to listen as a corporate body requires courage to face uncomfortable truths
• Churches must cultivate spaces where every member's spiritual gift can be expressed and heard
• The delusion affecting many churches today may be a form of divine discipline for not listening
For tools to assess your church's health and begin a journey toward wholeness, visit BlessingPoint.org where you'll find free resources including a simple 10-minute church health assessment.
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The Church Renewal Podcast explores how congregations can address their corporate history and discipline in the second part of our discussion with Dr. Ken Quick of Blessing Point Ministries. Churches often resist examining painful history, but Christ's love demands honest confrontation with the past to experience true renewal. Listen to Part 1 here.
The 8th Letterhttps://www.amazon.com/Eighth-Letter-Exploring-Churches-Discovering/dp/B08NDXBC1Z by Dr. Ken Quick.
• Churches exist as corporate bodies, not just collections of individuals, subject to Christ's discipline
• Jesus disciplines congregations he loves, sometimes removing their "lampstands" when they fail to address sin
• Biblical examples like David and the Gibeonites show God holds communities accountable for historical wrongs
• Sacred or solemn assemblies provide a biblical model for churches to corporately address sin and hear from God
• Structural changes (new constitutions, leadership models) fail to solve spiritual problems without addressing root causes
• Effective church renewal requires humbly listening to "the Lord of the church" rather than applying quick fixes
• Churches must take responsibility for their history, including reconciling with wounded former members and pastors
• The renewal process should involve the entire congregation in listening to the Spirit's guidance
Find infö on all of Dr. Quicks books.
Flourish exists to set ministry leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors or churches feel stuck, our team of coaches refresh their hope in the gospel and help them clarify their strategy. For more information, visit flourishcoaching.org or email info@flourishcoaching.org.
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Dr. Ken Quick of Blessing Point Ministries joins us to discuss how Jesus speaks to churches corporately, not just to individuals, and how addressing a congregation's painful past can lead to healing and renewal.
The 8th Letterhttps://www.amazon.com/Eighth-Letter-Exploring-Churches-Discovering/dp/B08NDXBC1Z by Dr. Ken Quick
• Churches often don't realize Jesus has a corporate message for them as a community
• The letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2-3 provide a model for how Jesus continues to speak to congregations today
• The "Eighth Letter" model helps churches discern what Jesus would say to their congregation
• Corporate healing requires examining church history, identifying "hinge moments" where decisions created lasting impacts
• Blessing Point's three-month process includes historical examination, a retreat, and a solemn assembly
• Churches that take corporate responsibility for past failures experience remarkable healing
• Congregations must often "go back" to address unresolved histories before they can move forward effectively
• Spiritual gifts help believers understand God's perspective on various issues affecting the church
Books by Dr. Ken Quick
To learn more about Flourish Coaching's resources for ministry leaders and churches feeling stuck, visit flourishcoaching.org or email info@flourishcoaching.org
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Season 3.5 drops tomorrow. That means in less than 24 hours, you’ll hear the conversations that wouldn’t stay quiet. Church renewal isn’t just an idea—it’s a process, and we’re still in it with you. Get ready for insights, challenges, and maybe even a few surprises. Season 3.5 starts Thursday, April 3. Make sure you’re subscribed, and we’ll see you there
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We’re back. Season 3.5 of The Church Renewal Podcast launches this Thursday. This isn’t a new season—it’s an unfinished one. We’re picking up the conversations that were too big to leave behind. If you care about the future of your church, you don’t want to miss what’s coming. Join us Thursday, April 3, as we dive back in. Be sure you’re subscribed wherever you listen to podcasts.
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"Some of the best conversations happen after the episode ends. That’s why Season 3.5 exists—to bring you the insights we couldn’t leave behind. This time, we’re sitting down with church revitalization leaders like Tom Harris from Interim Pastor Ministries, Ken Quick from Blessing Point Ministries, and Dave Miles from Vital Church Ministry. Plus, you’ll hear firsthand stories from pastors who’ve walked through transition with Flourish Coaching. It’s wisdom, experience, and real-life renewal—coming your way. Season 3.5 starts Thursday, April 3. Make sure you're subscribed
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You know that feeling when you finish a great conversation… but later, you realize there was so much more to say? That’s exactly what happened when we wrapped up Season 3 of The Church Renewal Podcast. So, we’re back for a mid-season release—Season 3.5! Because let’s be honest, we left some big conversations on the table, and it’s time to pick them back up. What’s coming? More hard questions, more real talk, and more of the practical insight you need to lead your church through renewal. It all starts Thursday, April 3. Don’t miss it.
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Hey! It’s me again. Are you wondering what the future of the Church Renewal Podcast is? What ideas and topics are still out there waiting to be explored. Well, we wanted to scratch that itch for you and bring you a quick update on where we are going from here. As we look ahead to season 4 of the Church Renewal Podcast our sincere prayer is that you and your pastor and your church would be encouraged and strengthened by our conversations, and our labors for you. Sola Dei Gloria.
Curious about the dynamics that can truly transform church leadership? Imagine unlocking the mysteries of family systems theory and how it could revolutionize the way you lead. In our eagerly anticipated Season 4 of the Church Renewal Podcast, Jer and I are thrilled to bring you on a journey through these groundbreaking concepts, promising insights not just for pastors, but for entire church communities. Our friendship, forged just six months ago, has fueled a collaborative passion to explore this topic, and we're eager to share the wealth of knowledge that’s waiting to bolster your ministry.
As we transition from last season's focus on transitional pastoring, we reflect on its success and the valuable connections made. Now, we're charting a new course, spotlighting family systems theory and its profound implications for church leadership. Our conversations will draw from a rich tapestry of literature, aimed at empowering you and challenging the status quo of pastoral leadership. This season, we invite you to shape our discussions with your questions and insights, ensuring that our journey together is as impactful as possible. Join us as we endeavor to provide the support and inspiration you seek in navigating the complexities of ministry.
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We are jumping back into your podcast feed to bring you a bonus episode, cuz we love you. Today I sit down with Matt Bohling to ask him If Flourish Coaches work with churches outside of the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA). Spoiler alert, if your church is not a PCA church, and you are going to need a new lead pastor, we want to work with you to help you through your transition. But, even with that spoiler alert, I still want you listen to this bonus episode.
What if the journey to finding a new pastor could be seamless, respectful, and perfectly aligned with your church's unique beliefs? Join us for this special bonus episode where we welcome Matt Boling from Flourish Coaches. Matt shares his insightful approach to facilitating pastoral transitions, ensuring that churches from all denominations—whether PCA, EPC, or evangelical free—find a perfect fit for their community. Through thoughtful, candid conversations, Matt reveals how Flourish Coaches navigate the complexities of theological differences, placing transitional pastors who resonate with the host church's doctrine while honoring their distinct theological convictions.
Explore the nuanced world of transitional pastorship as Matt clarifies Flourish's dedication to respect and collaboration. Whether discussing dispensationalism or handling the complementarian views within the EPC, Matt explains how Flourish provides the freedom for churches and pastors to opt out if the doctrinal fit isn't ideal. This episode sheds light on Flourish's commitment to restoring churches to biblical health, offering a tailored, inclusive approach to pastoral transitions that champions the individuality of each church while paving the way toward a thriving future.
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I bet you were not expecting another bonus episode from your favorite two Flourish voices were you? That’s okay, we’re full of surprises! Today we are giving you a big picture, yet short conversation. We are talking about why the transition period is so critical for the life of the church. It might seem obvious, but like I said, we’re full of surprises. So, thanks for joining us again for this bonus chat. Cheers!
Are transitional periods in churches the key to future success or a ticking time bomb waiting to explode? Join us for a compelling conversation as we, Jeremy Seferati and Matthew Bolling, unpack the critical nature of these often-overlooked times between long-term pastors. With insights drawn from cultural touchstones and biblical stories, we highlight how anxiety and grief can lead to rushed decisions that undermine the next pastor's ministry. We promise you'll walk away with a deeper understanding of why patience and intentionality are not just virtues but necessities during these pivotal moments.
But that's not all; we'll also guide you on how to connect with Flourish Coaching for ongoing support and inspiration. Discover the importance of engaging with our podcast to spread the word and unlock the potential for growth within your church community. A special thanks goes out to Bay Ridge Christian Church for their warm hospitality and the talented musicians who bring our show to life with licensed music. Produced in collaboration with Flourish Coaching, our mission remains steadfast: to equip and inspire churches to fulfill their divine calling with confidence and clarity.
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Surprise! I’m back with another bonus episode from Flourish Coaching. This conversation between me and Matt is a bit more retrospective and historical. As the Executive Director of Flourish Coaching, Matt Bohling’s personal story and life experience have a deep shaping impact on our ministry. Today I’m sitting down with Matt to hear where and how the idea for Flourish and the coaching playbook came from. And, if you haven’t gotten enough of us yet, you should really listen to Matt tell his personal ministry story from season 1 of the Church Renewal Podcast. We have links to those episodes in the notes below. Enjoy!
What happens when a marine scientist, business analyst, and pastor combines his skillset to revitalize churches? Join us for a compelling conversation with Matt, the executive director and founding member of Flourish Coaching, as he shares his fascinating journey from the ocean depths to the pulpit. Discover how Matt's unique background and passion for process creation led to the development of innovative tools like the Pastor Search model and church health assessment, specifically designed to fill gaps in church support systems, particularly within the PCA. This episode uncovers the origins of Flourish Coaching, from its inception in 2014 to its official incorporation in 2015, and Matt's relentless pursuit of helping churches achieve missionary success and stave off decline.
Walk with us through the evolution of Flourish Coaching's philosophy, sparked by an unexpected client suggestion. Matt reflects on the serendipitous integration of their three core processes into a unified approach that aids churches during transitional periods. Drawing from his formative years with a diagnostician father and his diverse professional experiences, Matt shares insights into the challenges and triumphs of church revitalization. From grappling with church growth questions in his early ministry days to assisting both emerging and established congregations, Matt's story is a testament to innovation and dedication. Tune in to learn how these experiences have shaped Flourish Coaching's mission and philosophy, transforming the landscape of church support.
Some links to help you:
- IPM (Interim Pastor Ministry)
- Vital Church
- Matt’s Story: Part 1 (The Church Renewal Podcast Season 1)
- Matt's Story: Part 2 (The Church Renewal Podcast)
- “Jesus Score Card”
- Missional Mindset
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Today we are going to take a second look at the broader church transitioning field and I’m going to ask Matt about the specifics that distinguish Flourish coaches from other organizations that work in this same space. You might be surprised by some of our conversation today. If you did not catch the first part of this conversation you’ll find it linked below in the episode notes.
Don't forget to share this stuff with your friends. Won't you please help us get the word out today?
Unlock the secrets of effective church transitions with insights from Jeremy Cifarotti and Matthew Bolling of Flourish Coaching. Discover how these leaders, along with their colleagues at Interim Pastor Ministries and Vital Church, are transforming the landscape of church renewal. Together, they form a collaborative network that meets the high demand for transitional pastors, each organization bringing its unique strengths to the table. From IPM’s Evangelical Free Church roots to Vital Church’s ties with the Christian Missionary Alliance, hear how these groups complement each other in their mission to support diverse denominations in times of change.
As we wrap up Season 3 of the Church Renewal Podcast, a heartfelt thanks goes out to our loyal listeners whose engagement has fueled our discussions. Reflect on the powerful stories and questions shared, and gear up for more inspiring content in Season 4. We invite you to engage with us on our Facebook page to continue the conversation and share your own experiences of church life and transition. Remember, as you listen, that the collective journey is about more than transitions—it's about the enduring promise that Jesus is actively gathering His people through the church. Join us as we continue this journey of renewal and growth.
No more fun links.
Thanks for spending season 3 with us. We had a blast, and you're being here made it extra special.
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Today we are talking about next steps. How can your church get involved with Flourish Coaching? What is the process for partnering with Flourish Coaching either for consulting, or for obtaining a transitional pastor? We are going to talk through this process in today’s episode, and as always, if you want to know more, or if you want to start this conversation you can go to flourish coaching.org or send us an e-mail at info@flourishcoaching.org.
Can church renewal truly transform your congregation? Discover the intricate journey of church revitalization and partnership with Flourish Coaching, where the path to renewal is paved with thoughtful strategy and meaningful connections. Whether you're a church leader seeking guidance or inspired to become a transitional pastor, this episode promises to illuminate the vital steps for engaging in this transformative work. We offer a roadmap for aspiring transitional pastors, from initial conversations to training and evaluations, ensuring they're well-prepared for the challenges ahead. Churches will learn how to pinpoint their unique needs and find a pastor that aligns perfectly with their mission.
Join us as we navigate the logistics of pairing churches with the right transitional pastors, delving into background assessments, needs evaluations, and the art of making successful matches. We also shed light on the contractual and financial agreements that underpin these partnerships, with Flourish at the helm as the employer. Our mission at Flourish Coaching goes beyond just placement; it’s about reigniting hope and clarifying strategies for ministry leaders. Listen in to understand how we support pastors and congregations in feeling unstuck, reconnecting with their calling, and reigniting their faith journey. Share this episode with those who might find it valuable and become part of the powerful process of church renewal.
More fun links:
- Visit our website
- Send us your questions to: info@flourishcoaching.org
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
You’ve probably never heard of a GRACE analysis. This tool developed by Ken Preddy provides a structure that you can use to develop a clearer picture of the most important areas in your church to address. More than just identifying pain points, the GRACE analysis looks at the whole life of your church and gives you an intentional way to move forward towards growth. Today, Matt is going to break down this idea for us and show us how Flourish leverages this type of analysis to support your church.
Discover the transformative power of grace analysis with us on the Church Renewal Podcast, where Ken Priddy's innovative tool sheds light on the emotional dynamics within churches. Joined by our insightful guest, Matt Bolling, we explore how understanding and addressing emotions like grief, reconciliation, and excitement can lead to healthier church environments. Learn how grace analysis provides a framework to tackle emotional challenges, particularly during transitions such as the departure of a long-term pastor, and the crucial role transitional pastors play in facilitating mourning and reconciliation. Through engaging stories, Matt highlights the pitfalls of poor communication, illustrating how distrust can arise within a congregation and how these issues can be rectified for a more cohesive community.
We also dive into the intersection of SWOT analysis with grace analysis, emphasizing the importance of transparency in confronting past issues, such as moral failures, to promote true healing. By bringing these issues to light, we foster trust and genuine transformation within the church. As we approach the final episode of our series, we're filled with gratitude for your support and excited to continue empowering churches through strategic insights and hope. Engage with us on social media, share our journey, and let’s prepare to conclude this chapter with renewed dedication to serving our community.
Links to help you along your way:Please e-mail us with your questions: info@flourishcoaching.org
- “GRACE Analysis” Ken Priddy
- "Sacred Assembly"
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
Okay, As we come to the end of the third season of the Church Renewal Podcast we have talked a lot about the ministry of Flourish Coaching. But what about the wider field of church transition? Are there other organizations that work in this specialized area? Who are they? What are the similarities and distinctions between them? And what, if any, is the relationship between them? Join us today as we look at the broader field of church transitioning.
Could a transitional pastor be the key to revitalizing your church? Discover how these unique leaders, much like the Apostle Paul, are specially equipped to guide congregations through crucial periods of change. This episode uncovers the vital role transitional pastors play in steering churches away from decline and towards a future filled with spiritual vitality. By understanding their unique calling and skill set, you'll learn the importance of having someone who can effectively lay a solid foundation during interim periods and ensure the church remains faithful to Jesus' mission.
We'll also explore the distinct advantages of short-term pastoral oversight, where transitional pastors can address structural and spiritual issues head-on, free from the constraints of long-term job security. By comparing these pastors to contractors who assess the health of a home, we emphasize how their outsider's perspective can usher in improvements that make churches more welcoming and vibrant. Join us as we highlight the significance of having leaders who possess genuine shepherding hearts and are committed to fostering gospel-centered communities, making a lasting impact on both the congregation and its surrounding community.
Some links we think you'll find helpful:
- Please send questions to: info@flourishcoaching.org
- The Intentionality Grid
- IPM (Interim Pastor Ministry)
- Read more about being “PEG”ed -
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
We have already heard a "horror story
about when the transition process fails. And, as I said in the last episode, we are intentionally doing a little bit of recovery and restoring. In that vein, we are talking about a Hallowed Story today. Matt and I will discuss one stand-out win that a church experienced as they worked with a Flourish Coach through their process of transitioning to a new lead pastor. Enjoy!
Can a church truly transform in just two years? Discover how one church community harnessed the power of structured coaching and spiritual guidance to achieve remarkable growth and transformation. Join hosts Jeremy and Matt as they uncover uplifting success stories in church leadership transitions. From a large church's unexpected victory in swiftly securing a new lead pastor within six months to another congregation's profound journey of spiritual renewal, this episode reveals the extraordinary possibilities when structured processes meet divine inspiration.
Listen in as Matt shares insights from his work with a large church navigating the pastoral search process, illustrating the impact of identifying specific needs and creating a robust church profile. You'll also hear about a two-year transformative journey, inspired by biblical principles and the “Five Dysfunctions of a Team,” which helped a church overcome societal challenges and foster accountability, driven by the Holy Spirit's role in genuine growth. As they wrap up, Jeremy and Matt reflect on the heartfelt rewards and challenges of coaching churches through these life-changing experiences, offering listeners valuable lessons in handling complex church dynamics.
More fun and helpful links for you!
- Visit our website
- Share the podcast with someone
- Read the FAQ's
- Check out our Blog
- Follow us on Facebook
- Check out our YouTube channel
- Connect with Matt
- Connect with Jeremy
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
We’ve dealt with a lot of heavy issues so far in season three. So, as we come around the final bend, we are going to take a breather and recover a little. We are going to start by talking about the “Sacred Assembly” If you haven’t heard of this concept, or even if you have, we’re glad you’re listening now. Join us as we discuss the power and kindness of God’s grace that we can experience as individuals and as a church in a sacred assembly.
Can the ancient practice of Sacred Assembly transform modern church communities? Discover how this Old Testament tradition can be a powerful catalyst for healing, reconciliation, and spiritual growth within your congregation. As we unravel the narrative of Ezra 10, we reveal how structured gatherings for public confession and re-covenanting with God can mend fractured relationships and address unrepentant sins. Whether you're a church leader or a member, learn how embracing these practices can prepare your church for a future strengthened by unity and collective healing.
As we journey further, we tackle the nuances of overcoming fear and nurturing gospel security in relationships. Explore the delicate art of sincere apologies and repairing trust, and gain insights into how humility and clear communication can resolve misunderstandings. By acknowledging how others experience our actions, we unlock personal growth and a deeper understanding of gospel grace. Finally, stand firm on the unyielding promises of faith as we guide you toward a more fulfilled spiritual journey. Don't miss out on connecting with us and sharing these enriching discussions with those who might benefit from this transformative message.
More helpful links for you!
- “Healing the Heart of Your Church”, Ken Quick
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
This is the third and final installment of “The Humanity” deep-dive. We have already looked at the personal impact to the transitional pastor and his wife. Today we are going to consider the family and kids of the pastor. There are some unique experiences and stressors that our kids face, as they make their own transition into full adulthood. In many ways, having a father who is a transitional pastor is similar to having a military father who is on deployment. We care about our pastors and their families and we want to make sure that they are well cared for. The first two parts of this mini-series are linked below in the episode description if you have’t listened to them yet, you should.
Balancing the demands of ministry with family life can feel like a tightrope walk, especially when your role involves constant change. Join us as Matt and Jeremy share their personal stories of navigating family life as transitional pastors, offering insights and strategies that resonate deeply with anyone juggling similar responsibilities. Through candid conversations, we explore the unique challenges faced by families, particularly children, when a parent frequently moves due to pastoral obligations, drawing parallels with the experiences of military families. Discover how prioritizing family, respecting the hierarchy of callings, and maintaining strong marital bonds through regular date nights can create a resilient family unit despite the demands of pastoral work.
As transitional pastors constantly on the move, the struggle to stay connected with family is real. Delve into the importance of being present and supportive parents to adult children, even when work requires frequent travel. Hear firsthand feedback from children about the value of quality time and the efforts made to strengthen family connections. We also highlight the role of Flourish in supporting family dynamics for ministry leaders, tackling complex family situations, and staying grounded in our foundational roles as faithful disciples, loving spouses, and dedicated parents. Tune in for a heartfelt discussion with practical strategies to help ministry leaders and their families thrive amidst the chaotic beauty of transitional pastoring.
More fun links to follow for help:
- The Humanity - Part 1
- The Humanity - Part 2
-
- “Margin”, Richard Swenson
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
In today's episode we are bringing you the second half of the “Vetted, Trained, Coached” mini-series. We are going to pick up our conversation about the work that Flourish does as a ministry to train and prepare their coaches to be effective in guiding your church to a healthy landing point. If you haven’t listened to part one you’ll find it linked in the episode description. Go give it a listen and if you’re interested in becoming a coach with flourish, we want to hear from you.
What if the key to guiding a church through challenging transitions lies not just in training, but in the art of effective coaching? Join us as we unravel the intricacies of our rigorous training process for transitional pastors at Flourish Coaching, crafted in partnership with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC). You'll discover how a day-and-a-half classroom training serves as the bedrock for preparing pastors to navigate periods of change, leveraging decades of research and best practices. With our unique approach, we ensure only the most adept leaders are at the helm, supported by ongoing training and critical evaluations, so they're always ready to lead churches to healthier futures.
In this engaging episode, we also explore the subtle yet significant differences between training and coaching, especially when dealing with long sales cycles in pastoral placements. Learn why rest between assignments is crucial and how we tailor our coaching to meet the individual needs of pastors. With an eye on the future, we're considering transitioning to cohort-based coaching to further enhance personalized support. We even recommend transformative resources like "Crucial Conversations" and "Who Stole My Church," which aid transitional pastors in steering congregations through resistance to change. Tune in for an insightful exploration into how we equip transitional pastors to be more effective in their vital roles.
More fun links for your aid!
- “Who Stole My Church?”, Gordan MacDonald
- Vital Church training
- Ken Moberg Intentionality Grid
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
What happens when a church health assessment falls on deaf ears, leading to an unexpected closure? Matt, our guest, shares his poignant journey through the trials of unsuccessful church transitions, offering a candid look at what went wrong and what could have been done differently. Listen as we shed light on the importance of cultivating an attitude of openness and being attuned to the Spirit's guidance, while also understanding how a lack of proper vetting and resistance to change led to missed opportunities for growth. Matt's insights encourage us to remain non-anxious and depersonalize our interactions, fostering a constructive environment for engagement and development.
We dive deep into the intricate world of church vision using family systems theory, exploring how detaching one's self-concept from the outcome is pivotal. Hear a cautionary tale of a church that lost its way due to an unclear focus, illustrating the need for tailored, community-specific goals. With lessons learned from both failures and triumphs, this episode offers valuable guidance for churches striving to survive and thrive. Whether you're navigating your own faith community's transition or simply curious about the dynamics of church growth, this conversation promises to offer thought-provoking takeaways.
More links to help you:
- “Body Aches”, Ken Quick
- “Healing the Heart of Your Church”, Ken Quick
- “The Eighth Letter”, Ken Quick
- “If You Met My Family You’d Understand”, Jack Shitama
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
Ever wondered how power dynamics shape the health of your church community? Join us as we explore the complexities that arise when certain individuals or families hold sway over church decisions, potentially disrupting harmony within leadership structures. We'll discuss the importance of establishing clear authority lines and fostering unity between elder and deacon boards to ensure that the church environment remains vibrant and harmonious. Our personal experiences shed light on the challenges faced by church leaders and the necessity of wise and gracious exercise of authority.
Shifting gears, we tackle the concept of "first among equals" in pastoral leadership. What happens when a pastor transitions from being a singular leader to an equal among elders? Learn how structured meetings, inspired by Pat Lencioni's "Death by Meeting," can help maintain healthy power dynamics by addressing business, shepherding, and vision discussions. Authority, ultimately derived from God, plays a crucial role in guiding church leadership, ensuring decisions are made with wisdom and integrity.
In times of pastoral transition, the balance of power becomes even more critical. Discover how unaddressed power imbalances can hinder incoming pastors and lead to unresolved issues, or "monkeys," on their backs. By drawing on family systems theory and sharing personal anecdotes, we emphasize the significance of setting boundaries and managing expectations. Through these insights, we reaffirm the gospel's role in correcting power dynamics and remind ourselves of the importance of trusting in divine wisdom and guidance.
Back in part 4 of the “will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor mini series we briefly mentioned the impact of power dynamics in your church. Today we are going to get down and dirty with this topic. Power dynamics are real and felt by everyone. When stewarded well they allow a church to thrive, and when stewarded poorly they leave a trail of wreckage in their wake. Yet, as important a topic as this is, it is one that is rarely discussed in our churches, and it is one area where most of us will benefit from just a little more personal growth.
Links to help you!
- "The 5 Dysfunctions of a Team”, Patrick Lencioni
- “If You Met My Family You’d Understand”, Jack Shitama
- “Death By Meeting”, Patrick Lencioni
- "Crucial Conversations", Joseph Grenny
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
Today we are bringing you Part 2 of our three part mini series called “The Humanity” where we look at the impact and cost to the life of the transitional pastor and his family. If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet you can find it in the episode description below. In part 2 we are going to look at the impact borne by the wife of the transitional pastor. These women are noteworthy and deserving of honor as they lend their often invisible strength to your church. To them we say a deeply felt, Thank you.
What happens when the often-unseen challenges of pastors' wives take center stage? Join us to discover the emotional and relational costs these remarkable women bear as they support their husbands through the turbulent waters of church renewal. From managing family life at home to relocating for the sake of a transitioning congregation, these wives play crucial roles that are seldom acknowledged. We shed light on their experiences and explore how they balance their personal lives while deeply engaging in church matters, highlighting the profound impact their relational intuition has on the ministry work of their husbands.
Explore the reality of geographical bachelorhood, where transitional pastors navigate the complexities of living apart from their spouses. Drawing on our experiences in recruiting and coaching, we stress the importance of maintaining healthy marriages to ensure pastoral success. Insightful feedback from pastors' wives underscores the significance of family dynamics in the effectiveness of ministry work. Moreover, we dive into the mission of Flourish, a program dedicated to renewing hope and refining strategies for ministry leaders. Tune in to learn how we empower pastors and churches to thrive and how you can join this supportive journey.
More Links to help you =)
- “Minister Out of Your Marriage”, Pete Scazzero (Blog or EVideo Podcast)
- "Minister Out of Your Marriage", Pete Scazzero (Article)
- The Humanity, Part 1
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
In today’s episode we are bringing you the first part of a a two-part mini series called, “Vetted, Trained Coached”. In this deep-dive we are going to unpack the process that all Flourish Coaches go through in order to be ready and able to guide your congregation through the transition process to find your next lead pastor. If you are interested in finding out more, or in talking with us about becoming a transition pastor with Flourish Coaching we want to talk to you. Shoot us an e-mail at info@flourishcoaching.org and we’ll connect.
Helpful link!
- “A Failure of Nerve”, Edwin Friedman
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
In today’s episode we are bringing you the first part of a a two-part mini series called, “Vetted, Trained Coached”. In this deep-dive we are going to unpack the process that all Flourish Coaches go through in order to be ready and able to guide your congregation through the transition process to find your next lead pastor. If you are interested in finding out more, or in talking with us about becoming a transition pastor with Flourish Coaching we want to talk to you. Shoot us an e-mail at info@flourishcoaching.org and we’ll connect.
What happens when a pastor steps into a church at a critical juncture, tasked with guiding it through transformative times? We open our mini-series, "The Humanity," with an invitation to explore the unique role of transitional pastors, individuals who blend adaptability with seasoned wisdom to steer congregations through pivotal changes. Our conversation promises to unearth the motivations and challenges these pastors face, sharing the wealth of experience gathered from over 15 years in diverse church settings. The task is demanding, yet deeply rewarding, with a significant personal cost that impacts both the pastor and their family.
Ever wondered about the personal sacrifices that come with such a role? We uncover the intense demands of being a transitional pastor, which include working 50 to 55 hours a week and mastering the art of quick adaptation to new environments. The spiritual journey is intricate, requiring a deep dependency on God and the embracing of personal weaknesses as strengths. Our discussion underscores the necessity of continuous growth and learning, with a strong emphasis on the importance of proper training and preparation for those who wish to embark on this challenging, yet fulfilling ministry path.
The relational costs and potential for burnout are significant, and we offer a candid exploration of these challenges. Through insights into managing work-life balance, setting firm boundaries, and ensuring time for rest, we provide practical strategies for maintaining personal well-being. Transitional pastors must be selective, focusing on key processes to effectively navigate churches through their transitional phases. We invite you to join us in understanding these complex dynamics and the pivotal role transitional pastors play in shaping the future of their congregations.
Helpful link!
- “A Failure of Nerve”, Edwin Friedman
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
We have already discussed the first and second phases of a church in transition. The first phase: "The Church Health Assessment" and the second phase, “What is Envisioning” are linked in the episode description below. If you haven’t listened to these episodes stop here and go listen to them first then come back here. Welcome back! Ok, I’m just assuming that you did stop and listen to the other episodes. So, with that as the foundation, today Matt and I will sit down to talk about the final phase in the transition process, “The Pastoral Search”. In this phase we are answering the question, “In light of who God has called us to be, who can take us where we are going.”
What qualities truly define the right leader for a church in transition? Explore this challenging question with us on the Church Renewal Podcast as we uncover the secrets to a successful pastoral search. Promising invaluable insights, Matt and I discuss how to craft pastor profiles that align with the unique needs of your congregation, even if that means embracing unconventional traits. We highlight how previous stages, such as church health assessments and envisioning, play a pivotal role in identifying a pastor whose strengths and passions match the church's divine calling. Plus, we recommend Chuck DeGroote's "When Narcissism Comes to Church" as a critical resource for reflection and growth among pastors and elder boards.
Our conversation takes a thoughtful turn as we discuss the role of transitional pastors, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and avoiding conflicts of interest. Transitional pastors must work against biases and ensure their role remains temporary, avoiding the temptation to guide the search towards someone similar to themselves. We delve into the extent of their involvement with the pastor search committee, which hinges on the committee's openness to input. To further explore these dynamics, we express interest in forming a working group, inviting ongoing dialogue among practitioners. Join us as we navigate these crucial aspects of church renewal and leadership transition.
More Links to help you!
- The Pastor Search Process
- “Temporary Shepherds”, Roger S. Nicholson
- Chuck Degroat Resources
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
So far in Season three we’ve talked a lot about the theoretical reasons for using a transitional pastor, but we haven’t really discussed what the Transitional Pastor is actually doing. So, today, I’m sitting down with Matt to ask him to dive into the details of the job description, tasks, responsibilities and the day-to-day activities of your transitional pastor.
Discover the transformative journey of church transitions with Matt Bolling, Executive Director of Flourish Coaching, on the Church Renewal Podcast. Unpack the multifaceted role of a transitional pastor, expertly navigating the trio of preaching, care, and process to ensure a seamless shift from one pastor to the next. We'll unravel the complexities of orchestrating Sunday services, the delicate art of congregational care in a leadership void, and the strategic blueprint required for an effective pastoral transition. Whether you're part of a small congregation or a large parish, gain insights into how transitional pastors divide their time and the unique challenges they face.
Explore the dynamics of change management within churches as we address the often-daunting task of accepting church health assessments and fostering a readiness for change. Matt Bolling sheds light on the delicate balance transitional pastors must maintain, leveraging their strengths while acknowledging historical challenges. We dive into the critical question of recognizing the value of transitional leadership and the Spirit's role in fostering humility. Step into the empowering realm of Flourish Coaching, where ministry leaders find renewed hope in the gospel and clarity in their mission, all contributing to thriving church communities. Listen in and equip yourself with the strategies needed to embrace church growth and transformation.
More links to help you:
- “Body Aches”, Ken Quick
- “When Narcissism Comes to Church”, Chuck DeGroat
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
Here’s an obvious question; If I need a new lead pastor, won’t using a transitional pastor slow down the process of finding the next guy to hire? If you were not thinking about this question, I bet you are now. So, we are going to try to answer it today. If, as we are talking, you have other questions that you want answered, please drop us an e-mail to info@flourishcoaching.org after you listen to today’s hoq.
What if a transitional pastor could actually accelerate the process of hiring a new lead pastor? Join us as we discuss this compelling question with our insightful guest, Matt, on the Church Renewal Podcast. We unravel the benefits and challenges of appointing a transitional pastor, addressing the widespread concern of it potentially slowing down the timeline. Matt sheds light on how the preliminary steps, like church health assessments and envisioning, might initially seem cumbersome but ultimately foster a smoother and more effective search process. Our discussion reveals that while the transitional period might span 15 to 24 months, it lays a robust foundation for attracting top-tier candidates and minimizes the risk of future transitions, ensuring a stable path forward for congregations.
Beyond the immediate topic, we also reflect on our mission at Flourish—empowering ministry leaders to navigate their challenges with renewed hope and strategic clarity. We share how our dedicated team supports churches that feel stuck, guiding them to address core issues and envision a healthier future. We extend our gratitude to Bay Ridge Christian Church for their support in making this episode possible and invite listeners to connect with us through our platforms. Share this episode with others who might benefit from our insights and join us in fostering church renewal.
More tools to help:
- “Going slow to go fast” Cultivating Leadership
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
Today Matt and I are discussing the productive years of a pastor. Just like a church has a normal life cycle, a pastor also has a ministry life cycle. Knowing where you, as a pastor, or where your pastor is in his cycle will not only help you to plan for the future, it will also help you better understand why your church is the way it is right now, and show you how you can more fully engage all of the members of your church in the ministry that God has called you to.
Have you ever wondered when a pastor hits their peak years of ministry? Join us on the Church Renewal Podcast as we unravel Tom Rainer's intriguing research that reveals pastors reach their most productive years between years 7 and 15. But why do so many never get to experience these golden years? We explore the concept of the "berry basket" from Carl George to explain how trust and support in the congregation build over time, and discuss the pivotal role of transitional pastors and the crucial need for patience and relational equity in church leadership.
Discover how longer tenures of pastors correlate with healthier congregations as we highlight the adverse effects of frequent pastoral turnover. We also emphasize continuous pastoral development and coaching with insights from Pete Scazzaro. By comparing modern-day challenges with Biblical metaphors, we underscore the importance of fostering growth and developing future leaders. Flourish Coaching's mission to empower ministry leaders through strategic renewal is also spotlighted, offering fresh hope and vision for those in need. Tune in for a comprehensive conversation aimed at elevating church leadership and spiritual vitality.
Links for You:
- Tom Rainer Podcast
- "Berry Baskets", Carl George (Article)
"Berry Baskets" , Carl George (podcast) - “Generations”, Jean M. Twenge
- “The Anxious Generation”, Jonathan Haidt
- Pete Scazzero (Emotional Healthy)
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
This is the last in the 4-part deep-dive, called, “Will My church need a transitional pastor?” In this final installment we are going to look at some much more difficult and painful situations that you need to be aware of. Gross moral failure or betrayal; The last pastor leaving under duress. Tragedy within the congregation; Back-biting and bitterness in the church, and; A church controlled by a small group of families rather than the leaders. As you listen , think about your church; are we describing your church? If so, and if you would like to talk to us more about the process of doing your own internal deep-dive, we want to help you. After you finish this episode send us an e-mail so we can talk with you.
Can a church truly heal from a lead pastor's gross moral failure or betrayal? What happens when gossip and control by a small group of families start tearing a congregation apart? Join us in this compelling episode of the Church Renewal Podcast, where we confront these painful realities head-on. Learn how transitional pastors can bring the power of the gospel and the Holy Spirit to bear on these deep-seated issues, offering a pathway to healing and unity for the church body. We also unpack the underlying causes of backbiting and gossip, often rooted in leadership failures, and the essential steps for addressing these problems to restore the health of the congregation.
Power dynamics within church leadership can be complex and fraught with challenges. This episode sheds light on the biblical model of authority, flowing from Jesus through ordained leaders to the congregation, and the complications that arise when members attempt to wield influence without holding ordained positions. We discuss how transitional pastors play a crucial role in navigating these dynamics, especially in scenarios where a pastor leaves under duress due to personal emergencies or internal conflicts. By resolving these issues before introducing a new pastor, the church can ensure a smoother transition and maintain its leadership structure's integrity.
Transitional pastors are indispensable during crises, from moral failures to severe splits over contentious events. With their specialized training and extensive experience, they guide churches through the grieving and healing processes often overlooked by many institutions. This episode explores the critical importance of these mechanisms for processing loss and pain, setting the stage for future discussions on the tools and processes transitional pastors use to aid struggling congregations. Tune in to discover how you can support your church through its most difficult times and ensure it flourishes in its God-given mission.
Links for your assistance:
- The Freedom of Self Forgetfulness, TimothyKeller (Amazon)
- The Freedom of Self Forgetfulness, Timothy Keller (PDF)
- The Freedom of Self Forgetfulness, Timothy Keller (sermon audio)
- Vital Church Ministries
- Part 1: Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor?
- Part 2: Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor?
- Part 3: Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor?
Support the show
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
If you'd like to support the work of Flourish Coaching you can click here to make a donation.
Connect with Jeremy to discuss podcasting.
If you have never thought about your church as having a life cycle, or if you think that the whole idea is unbiblical I hope that today’s episode challenges you to re-visit this topic. We have already mentioned the church life cycle and the phases of Incline, Recline and Decline; Today I’m going to ask Matt to unpack this concept for us. And, if, as you listen, you are wondering if your church is in decline, and what can be done about it, we want to help you find answers. There’s good news, just because your congregation is in recline or decline does not mean that it’s time to blow out the candles and use the pews for fire wood.
Can a church break free from the traditional life cycle of incline, recline, and decline? On this episode of the Church Renewal Podcast from Flourish Coaching, we tackle this provocative question head-on, examining the concept of the church life cycle through a biblical perspective. Join Matt as he dives deep into how churches can self-evaluate and recognize their current phase, drawing lessons from the New Testament churches, particularly Corinth. We explore Jesus’ heartfelt letters in Revelation as a powerful tool for assessing a church's spiritual health and guiding it toward repentance and revitalization.
Discover how Flourish Coaching equips churches to embrace growth and renewal, especially during times of decline. We shed light on the critical roles of humility and repentance, offering practical steps for congregations to align with their mission of gathering people for Jesus. With resources like Ken Pretty’s insightful article on the church life cycle and Ken Quick’s "The Eighth Letter," this episode provides the guidance you need. We also delve into how Flourish Coaching empowers ministry leaders to rejuvenate their mission with gospel-centered strategies. Don’t miss this enriching discussion designed to inspire and invigorate your church’s journey.
Helping Links:
- 12 Challenges Churches Face, Mark Dever
- The Eighth Letter, KenQuick
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This is the third part in the “Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor?” Deep-dive. Today we will discuss some more signs you can look for in your church. A church in ‘Recline” or “Decline”; Physical improvements are all over 10 years old; Disagreement among the elders over the mission or vision of the church, and; Loss of trust n, or on-going complaints about the leaders. As you listen , think about your church; are we describing your church? If so, and if you would like to talk to us more about the process of doing your own internal deep-dive, we want to help you. After you finish this episode send us an e-mail so we can talk with you.
Could your church be unknowingly heading towards decline? Discover the essential signs that indicate when your church might benefit from a transitional pastor in our latest episode of the Church Renewal Podcast from Flourish Coaching. We break down Ken Pretty's church life cycle, which spans 40-50 years and includes phases of incline, recline, and decline. Learn how to identify if your church is in a vibrant incline phase or if it’s slipping into the dangerous territory of recline and decline. We reveal how churches in the latter phases may need to reassess their leadership and strategies to rekindle their growth and mission.
Uncover the transformative power of a transitional pastor during times of uncertainty and division within your church. In the second part of our conversation, we explore the unique advantages of having a transitional pastor who, without long-term ambitions, can guide the congregation to rediscover their collective mission and vision. This process not only fosters a unified identity but also makes your church more appealing to potential new pastors. Plus, we delve into how the application of the Gospel and grace by a transitional pastor can promote healing and unity, bringing both leadership and congregation together in humility and love. Join us for a compelling discussion that could be the key to renewing your church’s future.
Links to help you:
- Ken Predy- The Church Life Cycle
- Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor? Part 1
- Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor? Part 2
https://www.buzzsprout.com/765722/episodes/15646233-will-my-church-need-a-transitional-pastor-part-2
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The second phase for a church in transition is “Envisioning” After completing a Church Health Assessment and answering the questions, “Where have we been?” And, “Where are we now?”, it is necessary to answer two more questions, “Who are we?” And, “Where are we going?” This is the phase we call “Envisioning”, This is what we are going to unpack in today’s episode. We invite you to think about your own congregation as we talk, and consider how your church would answer these questions. If you haven’t listened to the episode, “The Church Health Assessment” you should do so now. You’ll find a link in the episode description below.
What if you could truly understand your church's identity and future direction? Discover the transformative power of aligning your church's mission with the heartbeats of its congregants. We unravel the complexities faced by commuter churches resistant to local engagement and older congregations yearning to rediscover their missionary zeal. You'll gain insights into shifting from surface-level mission statements to deep, actionable insights using demographic studies and a survey of 33 biblical values to reveal what your congregation genuinely cherishes.
We take a closer look at how understanding and measuring both current and aspirational values can shape a church’s trajectory. By sharing real-life examples like a wealthy Northern Virginia church that formed meaningful connections through tutoring programs, we illustrate how aligning with your church’s true values can lead to genuine, Christ-like discipleship. This isn’t about marketing; it’s about fostering real relationships that reflect the work of the Spirit in the hearts of your community.
The episode also dives into merging self-knowledge with community needs to answer the pivotal question, "Where are we going?" From understanding your church's unique gifts and spiritual toolbox to conducting interviews with local leaders, we provide practical tools for effective community engagement. Learn how to identify and bridge gaps within your community, supported by inspiring examples of churches that have successfully partnered with local schools and leaders. Plus, Flourish Coaching reveals how to empower church leaders with renewed hope and strategic clarity, liberating them to be effective in their divine callings. Join us on this journey of church renewal and rediscover your path forward.
Helpful Links:
- Church Renewal Podcast S2E1: The Church Life Cycle
- The Envisioning Process
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This is part 2 of our 4-part mini-series “Will my church need a transitional Pastor?” In today’s episode, Matt and I will look at some caution signs to be aware of that might surprise you: Being a “commuter” church; A church with financial challenges, and; Differing ideas about what to look for in the next lead pastor. As you listen , think about your church; are we describing your church? If so, and if you would like to talk to us more about the process of doing your own internal deep-dive, we want to help you. After you finish this episode send us an e-mail so we can talk with you.
Is your church making a difference in its own neighborhood? This episode of our mini-series "Will my Church Need a Transitional Pastor?" tackles the often-overlooked issue of commuter churches and their impact on community engagement. We examine what it means for a church when most congregants live more than 10 minutes away from its premises and the unique challenges this poses. Highlighting the significance of local outreach, we discuss why it's vital for a church to be actively involved in its immediate surroundings and not just focus on members' personal neighborhoods. Our conversation stresses the importance of assessing whether a church's absence would be felt in its community, emphasizing the call to share the gospel with those nearby.
We also dive into the crucial process of identifying specific needs when searching for a new pastor during a transitional period. With the help of a transitional pastor, congregations can navigate this challenging time with clarity and unity. We explore how their expertise and objectivity enable them to guide a church through understanding the traits needed in their next leader, and how even financial difficulties can be addressed through revitalization efforts. Lastly, we provide ways to engage with Flourish Coaching and our podcast, encouraging listeners to connect, share, and participate in the ongoing conversation about church renewal.
Some helpful links for you!
- Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor? Part 1
- Flourish Coaching FAQ's
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Today Matt and I will talk about how to assess the health of your church. The first step that Flourish coaches lead a church through is the Church Health Assessment. This is a crucial stage of investigation and intentional critique of the church’s past and present designed to allow your church to identify areas of weakness and build confidently in the place where God has planted you.
Curious to know how your church's history impacts its current health? Join us as we unpack the essentials of a church health assessment. We'll guide you through the process, similar to a medical check-up, that helps identify hidden weaknesses and untapped opportunities for growth. Learn from real-world examples, like a church struggling post-founder departure, to understand the vital role of clear communication and informed decision-making in fostering a thriving church community.
Discover the transformative power of owning your church's story . We'll discuss how humility and a willingness to confront past issues are essential for genuine renewal. Stay connected with Flourish Coaching and our vibrant podcast community, and let's equip your church to flourish wherever God has called you.
Here are some links we think you'll find helpful:
- The gospel shaped leader
- Church Health Assessment
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This season we are going to do some mini series on specific topics. Today’s episode is part 1 of a 4 part series called, “Will My Church Need a Transitional Pastor”. Over the next three weeks we will release the rest of this deep-dive. The bulk of this content comes from the FAQ’s that you can find on our website. This deep dive will look at specific caution signs that churches may have that indicate that they will be benefitted by using a transitional pastor. The caution signs we will look at today are: The length of tenure of the last pastor; An out of date ministry audit; Denominational change, and: pastoral “churn”.As you listen , think about your church; are we describing your church? If so, and if you would like to talk to us more about the process of doing your own internal deep-dive, we want to help you. After you finish this episode send us an e-mail so we can talk with you.
Could your church benefit from a transitional pastor after a long-term leader steps down? Join us as we explore the vital role of transitional pastors in helping congregations redefine themselves and move forward with renewed energy. We discuss the importance of this transitional period, not just for churches in distress but also for those that are healthy and looking to ensure their future vitality. Discover why this strategic step is essential for fostering a strong church identity and continued growth.
Many churches had to rethink their ministries during the COVID-19 pandemic. We delve into the importance of conducting regular ministry audits to ensure that church activities align with the mission of making disciples as outlined in the Great Commission. Drawing from insights in "Simple Church" by Tom Rainer and Eric Geiger, we share practical steps on how to assess and realign ministries for greater effectiveness. Learn how to determine if your church programs have clarity, focus, and measurable progress in fulfilling your mission.
Ministry challenges are inevitable, but how can churches address them effectively? We discuss the necessity of evaluating and potentially discontinuing unfruitful programs while honoring past efforts. Viewing ministry through a missionary lens, we emphasize the significance of outreach and adapting methods to better fulfill the Great Commission. Additionally, we tackle the issue of "Pastor Churn" and the benefits of stable, long-term leadership for church health. Tune in for strategies to navigate these critical moments in your church's journey.
Here are some links that we think will help you:
- Simple Church
- Made Disciple-
- Flourish Coaching FAQ's
- The Church Renewal Podcast Season 1, Ep. 18: The missional Mindset
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I’m guessing that the second biggest question you have about transitional pastors is ‘how much do I have to spend?’ Well, today that is exactly what matt and I are going to break down. Are you ready to uncover the true cost of church renewal? Join us as we unpack the financial aspects of hiring transitional pastors on this episode of the Church Renewal Podcast from Flourish Coaching. You’ll gain a clear understanding of the expenses involved, including the baseline cost for small churches and the additional expenses for larger congregations. We’ll also share our unique approach that allows churches to utilize our process expertise independently, making it a cost-effective option for many.
What’s stopping more churches from leveraging the benefits of transitional pastors? We'll explore the barriers, from financial concerns to resistance to change, and discuss why these hurdles persist in today's changing landscape of church ministry. With insights on the importance of a 15 to 24-month timeframe for effective church health assessments and pastor searches, this episode provides a practical framework for navigating church transitions successfully.
Navigating a transitional phase within your church can be daunting, but it doesn’t have to be. We’ll guide you through the essential steps and questions to consider, emphasizing the importance of a gospel-centered transition process. Discover how experienced transitional pastors can reinvigorate your church and prepare it to share the gospel with the community. Plus, learn about Flourish Coaching's mission to empower ministry leaders and revitalize their hope in the gospel. Don’t miss this opportunity to gain valuable insights and strategies for effective church transitions.
Here are some links that we think will help you:- The 5 Questions
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After a 4 year break the Church Renewal Podcast is back for it’s third season where we are going to unpack all of the questions you’ve ever had about Transitional Pastors. In this first episode of season three we are starting with the biggest questions: What is a transitional pastor? Why do they exist? What do they do? Why should churches consider using a transitional pastor?
Could your church benefit from a transitional pastor, even if everything seems to be running smoothly? Discover the critical role these leaders play in guiding churches through the often-turbulent period between long-term pastors in our third season opener. We dissect the differences between 'temporary,' 'interim,' and 'transitional,' offering compelling insights into why addressing underlying issues is essential for a prosperous future. With an engaging medical analogy, we highlight the dangers of ignoring church health problems, stressing the importance of transitional pastors in safeguarding both the congregation and the incoming pastor.
We also tackle the pressing issue of pastoral tenure, arguing why the average five-year stint in America isn't enough for churches to thrive. Learn why extending a pastor's tenure to a decade can foster deeper relationships and more effective ministry. By understanding the emotional and operational turmoil frequent transitions can cause, we emphasize the need for congregations to be introspective and seek Jesus' guidance before settling on a new long-term pastor. Additionally, we introduce Flourish's mission to support ministry leaders, inviting listeners to connect with us for guidance and to share their stories.
Here are some links that we think will be helpful to you:
- Church Health Stats -
- The 5 Questions -
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Only 1 week to go before the launch of the Church Renewal Podcast from Flourish Coaching.
Pastor and Coach Matt Bohling will sit down with Pastor and host Jeremy Cefaratti to peel back the layers of the Transitional Pastor cake to see exactly how this incredible confectionary delight is made.
This season is for pastors, elders, deacons, ministry leaders, small group leaders and anyone else who is invested in the health and vitality of your church. So, tell a friend and join us in one week!
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All of the greatest movies in history have had a trilogy. Now, the Church Renewal Podcast joins the pantheon of historic presentations such as Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Mission Impossible, The Matrix, Toy Story, Superman, Honey I Shrunk the Kids, and Spy Kids. Well, maybe that's not so impressive.
What it is: 2 bite-sized episodes each week starting September 10th and running through December. Flourish Coach's Executive Director, Matthew Bohling, will join host Jeremy Cefaratti to answer all of the questions about Transitional Pastors that you have likely never asked. If you're a part of a church, or a leader in a church, then this season is for you. Our goal is to give you the information you need to lead your church well.
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The Church Renewal Podcast will start on September 10th with Season 3. Tell your church, your leaders, and your friends to tune in as we unpack all things Transitional Pastor this season.
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After hiatus, the Church Renewal Podcast is returning for Season 3! This season will present the Transitional Pastor. What is a transitional Pastor? Join us for the next three months to find out more. Season 3 will begin September 10th.
Support the Show.
Please connect with us at our Website, Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube.
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In this episode we wrap up season two of the Church Renewal Podcast with a conversation about leading change. Managerial Courage and leading change are building blocks of church renewal. Join Matt Bohling as he discusses the steps and experience of leading change.
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Jeff and his wife planted Hope City Church in a community in need, with the help of a legacy church, and are seeking the renewal of the city. Featured in Gordon Penfold's Book, "Restart Churches" Jeff's story and passion are evident. Listen and enjoy!
Have a story to share? Reach out to Flourish. We want to feature stories of renewal, replanting, and revitalization.
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Flourish Coach Matt Bohling joins us on the podcast today to describe the strategic planning your church can do. Have you tried to do a strategic plan? Are you wary of it? Do you want help? Contact Flourish, we'd love to talk to you about it.
Resources on Strategic Planning curated by Flourish.
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Erik McDaniel, a PCA Pastor in Eastern, TN shares his story of going to a small church, learning the culture and community, and capitalizing on the doors God opens to revitalize a local church. Erik's church, Grace PCA, showed a willingness and openness to be transformed and renewed - a key component of church renewal.
Erik works with Flourish Coach Matt Bohling. Learn more about Flourish, find us on Facebook, or contact us today.
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Matt Bohling, Flourish Director, joins us to talk about planning your work and managing your time. If you can't lead yourself you'll struggle to lead your church.
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Mike Khandjian is a PCA Pastor who has lead renewal and revitalization in multiple churches. Listen in to this interview as he talks church health, pastoral health, and his book "A Sometimes Stumbling Life."
Get Mike's Book on Amazon.
Checkout this interview with Mike on the "I Heart the PCA" Podcast.
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What are the specific skills and needs that must be met for Church Renewal? What is Jesus' Scorecard for your church? Join us as we dig in to the ways that Jesus is renewing His Church.
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What does it mean for Christians to make joy a priority? In times like these, and in every day life, Christians are free to pursue joy intentionally. Flourish Coach Wes White talks about the pursuit of joy on today's episode of the Church Renewal Podcast.
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Find us online to connect.
Today on the podcast, we discuss the Theory of Church Renewal. What are the important questions to ask? What is the nest best step? Join us as we dig in to the theory of how Jesus renews His Church.
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Today, we speak with Gordon Penfold of Turn Around Pastors and author of the new book "Restart Churches." Gordon's wealth of experience as a pastor and church consultant comes to bear in his examination of churches that hit the restart button and recover gospel mission for their community.
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In today's episode, we talk about five foundational assumptions that we believe every church should have in place before they begin an intentional renewal journey.
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Today's topic is a question - Why don't I have time for anything? Pastors ask themselves this often, and it always seems like there is more to do, and less of you. Today on the podcast, we explore time crunch, getting some control of your schedule, and the life of ministry.
We'd love to encourage you with the gospel. Connect with Flourish and let us spend some time strengthening you and your ministry: http://www.FlourishCoaching.org/Contact
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Pastors can only give away what they've got; and whatever they've got, that's what they give away. And, that's why it's so important that church renewal begins with personal gospel renewal for pastors! In this episode Matt talks about the ways that the gospel speaks to the life of ministry, giving gospel encouragement to the folks called to lead renewal in their churches.
We'd love to encourage you with the gospel. Connect with Flourish and let us spend some time strengthening you and your ministry.
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This week on the #ChurchRenewalPod, Pastor Mike Horrigan joins us for a discussion of leading major ministry shifts. Mike's church "burned the ships" changed community and found new missional life embedded in a public school ministry.
Are you struggling to make the major ministry shift you know you need to make? Reach out to Flourish and we'd love to talk to you about it. http://www.flourishcoaching.org/contact
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http://www.churchrenewalpodcast.org
Last season, we defined Church Renewal and looked at the various aspects and characteristics of a renewed church. This season, we will begin to look at the building blocks of Church Renewal - what are some of the key concepts and ideas that Pastors need to have in mind at the begin the process of renewing their church?
In this episode, Matt and Allan will look into the life cycle of a church to help you identify what phase your church is in the natural ebb and flow of church life before you begin the process of renewal.
The Church Life Cycle by Ken Priddy (pdf)
If you would like to reach out, you can always find us at http://www.flourishcoaching.org
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Listen in to our season one wrap up. Paul Hahn, of Mission to North America joins us to talk about a vision for church renewal. This episode was also shared as a seminar for the PCA Virtual Seminars in light of their postponed General Assembly. Look for new episodes from Flourish Coaching in August.
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Jeph Guinan of the Alabama Church Planting Network writes, "If renewal were to happen, what would it look like?" Join us for this conversation about Church Renewal. Do you have questions for the Flourish team? Reach out to us online or on Facebook.
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During these strange times politics are dividing churches more than ever before. How does the church, how does the gospel, cut between political tribes and unify the local church? Pastor Matt Koerber, City Reformed PCA, joins us to talk about uniting the church around the mission of God's kingdom in the midst of political tension. Matt's church in the university center of Pittsburgh, PA is no stranger to these kinds of divides. Join our conversation and let's dig into the ways that Jesus is renewing his church.
The Church Renewal Podcast is a ministry of Flourish Coaching. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish coaches come alongside them to renew their hope I the gospel and help them clarify their strategy.
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Are you having trouble gettin your leaders on board with your renewal and revitalization efforts? Flourish Coach Matt Bohling discusses getting your leaders on board with gospel renewal efforts in your local ministry.
Flourish exists to set ministry leaders free with the gospel to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish coaches come along side them, renewing their hope in the gospel and helping to clarify their strategy. Contact Flourish to learn more.
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In our Renewal Stories series we feature the voices of pastors on the front line of church renewal. Robbie Schmidtberger, a PCA pastor, is replanting a church in West Chester, PA. He tells the story of conflicts within the former congregation, the partnership with an existing congregation, and the fruit of God's movement through this replanting effort.
Flourish exists to set ministry leaders free with the gospel to be effective wherever God has called them. When ministry leaders are stuck, Flourish coaches come alongside them to renew their hope in the gospel and help them clarify their strategy. Contact Flourish if you're feeling stuck. Connect with us on Facebook to join the conversation about church renewal.
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Flourish hosts a livestream discussion of the importance of pastoral mental and emotional health. Flourish Director Matt Bohling leads this timely discussion. Are you taking care of your mental and emotional health? Do you have good resources, pastor? Listen in to this discussion and let us know what you think.
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Chris Vogel and NextGen Pastors are equipping new ministry leaders and seasoned pastors through mentored co-horts. Seminary does a good job with theological education and some practical theology like preaching and counseling. But what about the soft-skills of pastoral ministry? Are you a pastor in need of on going education and mentoring? Chris's story and practical advice might be used by God to bless you and your ministry.
Learn more about Flourish's resources at FlourishCoaching.org, or find us on Facebook.
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PCA Church Planter Kevin Bigelow, of Christ Church - Beaches in Jacksonville Florida and Flourish Director Matt Bohling discuss the missional opportunity and equipping the church for mission during social distancing.
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Flourish Coach Tom Cox discusses small church strategies in social distancing with Flourish Director Matt Bohling.
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"They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." Acts 2:42
This is the last installment of our episodes working through Flourish's definition of church renewal. In church renewal we seek to bring people into deeper and more meaningful encounters with God's word, prayer, and the sacraments of the church. These basic tools of discipleship become more meaningful and drive us toward mission when our churches are renewed by the gospel.
Tell us about your churches engagement with the word and prayer. Or reach out and connect with a coach to begin more holistic discipleship in your church. Connect with Flourish onFacebook, Twitter, or on the web.The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope in the gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
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Flourish Coaching is excited to welcome Ted Powers of the Midwest Alliance - PCA to the podcast. Ted directed church planting for the PCA's Mission to North America before focusing his work on the midwest region of the PCA. Ted discusses the nexus of church planting and renewal for our audience in the Renewal Voices episode.
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The conclusion of our conversation with the Presbyterian Church in America's national coordinator for Mission to North America Paul Hahn on the importance of church renewal and church planting.
Paul is a founding member of the Flourish Coaching team and have gone on to run the church planting, missional partnerships, and church revitalization arm of the PCA.
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"But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him." John 4:23
Part 2 of our discussion on worship and church renewal. What does worship look and feel like in your church? Is there a spirit of joy in the room? Are people engaged? Are they blessed by it? Is it transformative? Church renewal means renewing joy and reverence in worship.
In this episode we continue to work through our definition of church renewal:
"Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences ... a new joy and reverence in worship..."
Tell us about worship in your church. Or reach out and connect with a coach to begin more holistic discipleship in your church. Connect with Flourish onFacebook, Twitter, or on the web.The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope in the gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
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Renewal Voices is a series of bonus episodes where Flourish Coaching features the voices of thought leaders and pastors who God is using to affect renewal across the church.
This week, we feature Paul Hahn, Coordinator of the PCA's Mission to North America. MNA catalyzes church planting, church renewal, and missions of mercy and justice to North America for the nearly 2,000 congregations and missions of the PCA.
Paul is a founder of Flourish coaching, along with Executive Director Matt Bohling.
Is there a voice you would like us to feature in Renewal Voices? Contact Flourish on the web, Facebook, or Twitter. We're eager to advance the conversation about church renewal across the bride of Christ.
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During the season of social distancing, Flourish is providing weekly livestream discussions on pertinent topics. We're republishing these discussions in our podcast stream for you.
This episode features Matt Bohling discussing strategies for effective pastoral transition in the midst of social distancing.
Are you trying to lead pastoral transition in this season? Would you like a coach to bounce ideas off of? Contact Flourish on the web, Facebook, or Twitter.
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"But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him." John 4:23
What does worship look and feel like in your church? Is there a spirit of joy in the room? Are people engaged? Are they blessed by it? Is it transformative? Church renewal means renewing joy and reverence in worship.
In this episode we continue to work through our definition of church renewal:
"Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences ... a new joy and reverence in worship..."
Tell us about worship in your church. Or reach out and connect with a coach to begin more holistic discipleship in your church. Connect with Flourish onFacebook, Twitter, or on the web.The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope in the gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
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How are you leading your church in the midst of social distancing and the Covid-19 pandemic? How are you promoting social cohesion? Flourish coaches Scott Lowe and Matt Bohling discuss strategies and hope for social cohesion in the midst of social distancing.
Learn more about Flourish Coaching online, on the blog, or on Facebook for more resources on pastoral leadership and church renewal.
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"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." 1 Peter 2:9
Does your church possess an institutional mindset, relying on historic cultural assumptions about the place of the church in the society? Or do you have the missionary mindset? Does your church see itself as a missionary community sent with the gospel of Jesus to the community in which you live, serve, and worship?
In this episode we continue to work through our definition of church renewal:
"Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences ... a new curiosity to know God, the self, and the world; a new awareness to the missionary opportunity around them ..."
Tell us about your discipleship process in your church. Or reach out and connect with a coach to begin more holistic discipleship in your church. Connect with Flourish onFacebook, Twitter, or on the web.The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope in the gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
Resources Mentioned:
Redeemer Church Planting ManualGoogle Folder of Resources from Flourish5 Ways to Meet Your Community's Needs (from Flourish Envisioning materials)
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On this week’s episode of the podcast, we take a question via social media. Kirk, pastor in West Virginia, asks "What are some helpful resources for leading renewal and revitalization?"
Check out the Church Renewal Blog for links, articles, and resources. Contact Flourish to talk to a coach about renewal and revitalization in your ministry. Interact with us on Twitter or Facebook to get your questions and comments into the podcast.
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On this week’s episode of the podcast, we take a question via social media. Dan from Pittsburgh asks "what are the criteria to determine whether a church needs to be revitalized?
Check out the Church Renewal Blog for links, articles, and resources. Contact Flourish to talk to a coach about renewal and revitalization in your ministry. Interact with us on Twitter or Facebook to get your questions and comments into the podcast.
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On this week’s episode of the podcast, we take a question via social media. Kirk, a pastor in West Virginia, asks "What can you tell me about the Evangelical Presbyterian Church's Go Center?" We jump off that to talk more broadly about how denominations are trying to effect renewal and revitalization.
Check out the Church Renewal Blog for links, articles, and resources. Contact Flourish to talk to a coach about renewal and revitalization in your ministry. Interact with us on Twitter or Facebook to get your questions and comments into the podcast.
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"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20
What does a "made disciple" look like in your church? Have you thought about it? How are the ministries and programs of your moving people along toward being a "made disciple" of Jesus?
In this episode we continue to work through our definition of church renewal:
"Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences ... holistic discipleship."
Tell us about your discipleship process in your church. Or reach out and connect with a coach to begin more holistic discipleship in your church. Connect with Flourish onFacebook, Twitter, or on the web.The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope in the gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
Resources Mentioned
Jeff Vanderstelt - "Gospel Fluency" and "Saturate"
Perimeter Church - "The Journey" and "12 Key Elements of Missional Discipleship"
Redeemer Presbyterian Church - "Catalyst Class"
Matt's Church's "Made Disciple"
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Are you confident in your church's missionary evangelism? Are you a pastor struggling to engage your church in evangelism? Are you a church member who would like to see more
"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20In this episode we continue to work through our definition of church renewal:
"Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences a ... passion to share the good news"Do you want to get off the evangelism plateau? Need help getting started? Connect with Flourish onFacebook, Twitter, or on the web.The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope in the gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
Resources Mentioned
The Gospel Comes with a Housekey, Rosaria ButterfieldA Meal with Jesus, Tim ChesterThe Gospel and Personal Evangelism, Mark DeverTell the Truth, Will MetzgerLet the Nations be Glad, John PiperTom Wood Essay on Evangelism in Church Planting
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Flourish Coaching exists to set ministry leaders free with the gopsel to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches feel stuck, our coaches renew their hope and help them gain strategic clarity.
Our Renewal Stories series features pastors and renewal leaders personal journey toward leading change and vitality in their church. We hope you're encouraged by our occasional renewal stories.
This episode features Flourish Director Matt Bohling sharing his personal journey toward church renewal. It is part two of two. Find part one here.
Tell us your renewal story. Reach out on the Facebook, Twitter, or the web.
Support the show (https://mygiving.secure.force.com/GXDonateNow?id=a0U0H00000XyE4IUAV)
The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope int he gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
“And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.” Acts 2:24 ESV
We continue working through our definition of Church Renewal in this episode:
Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences ... a new prayerfulness ...Jesus says, "apart from me, you can do nothing," in John 15. Your prayer life will tell you if you believe Jesus or not. Are you praying after you're done praying? Are you and your church praying for unbelievers, by name, and believing that Jesus will work in the hearts and lives of the lost?
Tell us about your practice of prayer for the kingdom. Do you want a new experience of prayer? Connect with Flourish onFacebook, Twitter, or on the web**.
Resources Mentioned**
Prayer, by Timothy Keller
The Valley of Vision (collection of prayer inspired by the Puritans)
John Smed, Prayer Current
Video: Prayer that Brings Down the Glory of God, Archie Parrish
A Simple Way to Pray (Kindle), Archie Parrish
"What is Kingdom-Focused Prayer" (Ligonier Ministries Blog), Archie Parrish
A Praying Life (Book) and (Website), Paul Miller
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Flourish Coaching exists to set ministry leaders free with the gopsel to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches feel stuck, our coaches renew their hope and help them gain strategic clarity.
Our Renewal Stories series features pastors and renewal leaders personal journey toward leading change and vitality in their church. We hope you're encouraged by our occasional renewal stories.
This episode features Flourish Director Matt Bohling sharing his personal journey toward church renewal. It is part one of two.
Tell us your renewal story. Reach out on the Facebook, Twitter, or the web.
Support the show (https://mygiving.secure.force.com/GXDonateNow?id=a0U0H00000XyE4IUAV)
The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope int he gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8 (ESV)
We continue working through our definition of Church Renewal in this episode:
Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences a new awareness of their sin and need for God’s grace;their privileges as ambassadors of the kingdom and as sons and daughters of God; a new appreciation for their place as they anticipate the kingdom of God coming and reaching that place; a new prayerfulness and passion to share the good news; holistic discipleship; a new curiosity to know God, the self, and the world; a new awareness to the missionary opportunity around them; a new joy and reverence in worship; a new personal commitment to the means of grace.If your church disappeared would your neighborhood miss you? Churches are renewed when they recover a sense of place, and the sense that Jesus is bringing his kingdom to bear on that place. Join us as we explore the idea of sense of place in church renewal.
Tell us about your place (zip code, school district, neighborhood) by connecting with Flourish on Facebook, Twitter, or on the web.
Resources Mentioned:Demographic Tools: City-Data, Mission Insight
The Apostolic Congregation, George Hunter
Redeemer Church Planting Manual (GoodReads review, out of print)
Center Church, Tim Keller
The Tangible Kingdom, Hugh Halter and Matt Smay
Videos:
Tangible Kingdom Workshop
Center Church Workshop
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Renewal Voices is a series of bonus episodes where Flourish Coaching features the voices of thought leaders and pastors who God is using to affect renewal across the church.
This week, we feature Harry Reeder, pastor of Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham, AL. Reeder is the author of Embers of a Flame. His revitalization ministry includes the book, a conference, and coaching.
Reeder calls pastors to remember what God has done, repent of their past wrongs, and recover biblical principles for their church. "The Pastor Evangelist" influenced Reeder's early thinking.
Is there a voice you feel we should feature in Renewal Voices? Contact Flourish on the web, Facebook, or Twitter. We're eager to advance the conversation about church renewal across the bride of Christ.
Support the show (https://mygiving.secure.force.com/GXDonateNow?id=a0U0H00000XyE4IUAV)
The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope int he gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 24:14
We continue working through our definition of Church Renewal in this episode:
Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences a new awareness of their sin and need for God’s grace;their privileges as ambassadors of the kingdom and as sons and daughters of God; a new appreciation for their place as they anticipate the kingdom of God coming and reaching that place; a new prayerfulness and passion to share the good news; holistic discipleship; a new curiosity to know God, the self, and the world; a new awareness to the missionary opportunity around them; a new joy and reverence in worship; a new personal commitment to the means of grace.Does your church have a "sense of place" - that where your congregation's location is a mission field and that there's missionary work to do right there? We exposit our commonly used phrase "the one, fully sufficient reason that this day dawned" as it applies to a local congregation. Is your church a missionary tactical force to your neighborhood?
Contact Flourish on our site, or reach out to on Facebook or Twitter to engage the conversation about church renewal and the doctrine of adoption. Stop in on the Church Renewal Blog for extra content on the relationship between adoption and renewal.
Resources RecommendedThe Celtic Way of Evangelism, George Hunter
God Seeks People to Worship Him, John Piper
How to Plead for Unbelievers, John Piper
My Prayer to God is that they Might Be Saved, John Piper
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On this week’s episode of the podcast, we take a question via social media. Robbie, a church replanter himself, asks "what is the difference between church renewal and revitalization? Where does replanting come into that?"
In the episode we recommend Thom Rainer's Revitalize and Replant Podcast.
Check out the Church Renewal Blog for links, articles, and resources. Contact Flourish to talk to a coach about renewal and revitalization in your ministry. Interact with us on Twitter or Facebook to get your questions and comments into the podcast.
Support the show (https://mygiving.secure.force.com/GXDonateNow?id=a0U0H00000XyE4IUAV)
The Church Renewal Podcast is a production of Flourish Coaching. Flourish exists to set leaders free to be effective wherever God has called them. When pastors and churches get stuck, Flourish Coaches renew their hope int he gospel and help them gain strategic clarity.
Galatians 4:4-7 (ESV) "But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God."
We continue working through our definition of Church Renewal in this episode:
Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences a new awareness of their sin and need for God’s grace; their privileges as ambassadors of the kingdom and as sons and daughters of God; a new appreciation for their place as they anticipate the kingdom of God coming and reaching that place; a new prayerfulness and passion to share the good news; holistic discipleship; a new curiosity to know God, the self, and the world; a new awareness to the missionary opportunity around them; a new joy and reverence in worship; a new personal commitment to the means of grace.How does it shape a group of people when they, together, are taken with the idea that God has adopted them into his family? When our identity comes from our adoption in Christ, we don't stand or fall on our own merit, we rest in Christ. What would that look like for you and your church? Contact Flourish on our site, or reach out to on Facebook or Twitter to engage the conversation about church renewal and the doctrine of adoption. Stop in on the Church Renewal Blog for extra content on the relationship between adoption and renewal.
Resources mentioned this episode:Adopted for Life, Russell Moore
Adoption, by Russell Moore
You Are Special, Max Lucado
The Great Gilly Hopkins, Katherine Peterson
General Resources from Serge
Gospel Identity, Serge
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Episode 4: The Embassy MindsetChurch Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences a new awareness of their sin and need for God’s grace; their privileges as ambassadors of the kingdom and as sons and daughters of God; a new appreciation for their place as they anticipate the kingdom of God coming and reaching that place; a new prayerfulness and passion to share the good news; holistic discipleship; a new curiosity to know God, the self, and the world; a new awareness to the missionary opportunity around them; a new joy and reverence in worship; a new personal commitment to the means of grace.
In order to renew a church, her members have to recover their identity as privileged ambassadors of King Jesus. If our hope in our old cultural clout - or just doing better than the church down the road - we won’t experience the joy of being on mission with Jesus. If our hope is in Jesus, we can confidently engage our communities with gospel, like ambassadors in a foreign land.Contact Flourishand tell us how your church is, or is struggling, to connect with your community as ambassadors of Jesus. Connect with us onTwitterandFacebook.
Recommended Resources:The Apostolic Congregation, by George HunterGrowing God’s Church, by Gary MackintoshMoving Off the Evangelism Plateau from Turnaround PastorsEvangelism & Outreach by Tim Challies
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On this week’s episode of the podcast, we take a question via social media. Rick asks why we’re talking about renewal/revitalization, and what do we mean by “the church.” Is renewal just for dying churches? Is it just local congregations that need a refresh of their mission and vision?
Check out the Church Renewal Blog for links, articles, and resources. Contact Flourish to talk to a coach about renewal and revitalization in your ministry. Interact with us on Twitter or Facebook to get your questions and comments into the podcast.
Support the show (https://mygiving.secure.force.com/GXDonateNow?id=a0U0H00000XyE4IUAV)
On Flourish's Church Renewal Podcast, we're exploring this definition of church renewal:
Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences a new awareness of their sin and need for God’s grace; their privileges as ambassadors of the kingdom and as sons and daughters of God; a new appreciation for their place as they anticipate the kingdom of God coming and reaching that place; a new prayerfulness and passion to share the good news; holistic discipleship; a new curiosity to know God, the self, and the world; a new awareness to the missionary opportunity around them; a new joy and reverence in worship; a new personal commitment to the means of grace.
We'd love to dig into the ways that Jesus is renewing your church. Contact us or find us on Facebook, Twitter, or the Church Renewal Blog.
Recommended Resources:Embers to a Flame, by Harry ReederAspects of a Healthy, Church by Don Macnair and Esther MeekOutgrowing the Ingrown Church, by Jack MillerRespectable Sins and Transforming Grace, both by Jerry BridgesFifty Fruits of PrideOutreach vs. Evangelism by Tim ChalliesProud vs. Broken People by Nick Batzig
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Should dying churches be left on the vine? Is renewal just for struggling churches? How do we begin the process of church revitalization?
On Flourish's Church Renewal Podcast, we're exploring this definition of church renewal:
Church Renewal is the process by which a person or church body experiences a new awareness of their sin and need for God’s grace; their privileges as ambassadors of the kingdom and as sons and daughters of God; a new appreciation for their place as they anticipate the kingdom of God coming and reaching that place; a new prayerfulness and passion to share the good news; holistic discipleship; a new curiosity to know God, the self, and the world; a new awareness to the missionary opportunity around them; a new joy and reverence in worship; a new personal commitment to the means of grace.Each week we'll explore a different aspect of this definition and talk about the ways that Jesus is renewing his church. We do it because there's only one fully sufficient reason that today dawned: Jesus is still gathering a people to himself and he's using the church to do it.
We'd love to dig into the ways that Jesus is renewing your church. Contact us or find us on Facebook, Twitter, or the Church Renewal Blog.
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