Win(e)d Down Wednesday: Recent Episodes
Hosted by Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett
A contemporary discussion on current workplace issues with a focus on diversity, inclusion, intersectionality, and equity -- best enjoyed with your favorite wind-down beverage. Hosts Jeffery Tobias Halter, gender strategist, and Amanda Hammett, generational talent specialist, create a brave space for much-needed conversations about employee engagement, retention...
Happy New Year! Join your Win(e)d Down Wednesday hosts Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett for a wind-down session on what’s next and what’s on the horizon for the coming year.
Resources: Jeffery Tobias Halter: www.ywomen.biz Amanda Hammett: www.amandahammett.com
To thank you for your support and share some holiday cheer, Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett, invited Atlanta entrepreneurs and mixologists Erika Moore and Raquel Ravenell, aka Whiskey and Rosemary, to create and share a cocktail tutorial. Recipes for delicious mocktails are also available on their social stream. Wishing you a joyous, healthy and happy holiday season. (Reprise)
Resources: Whiskey and Rosemary website: www.whiskeyandrosemary.com/ Worthy cocktail tutorial: https://youtu.be/7oOkQx6sgKs
Diversity, Equity & Inclusion strategist, consultant, and author Lily Zheng reminds us that Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion are outcomes, not intentions. They return to the podcast to brainstorm how to turn our good intentions into action, impact, and measurable outcomes that benefit everyone, especially marginalized groups disadvantaged and disenfranchised by our current systems. In this episode, we discuss identity at work, the expectations of employers and senior leaders – and what each of us can do to impact DEI outcomes.
Resources: Lily Zheng’s website: www.lilyzheng.co Lily’s books: https://lilyzheng.co/home/books/
Companies purport to care about DEI, but when it comes to their commitments on racial equity and gender parity, they often come up short. In their new book, “DEI Deconstructed: Your No-Nonsense Guide to Doing the Work and Doing it Right,” Diversity, Equity & Inclusion strategist and consultant Lily Zheng claims that organizations have been naive in their approach to DEI and discusses the need to center on desired outcomes and accountability to drive real change. Join us for a no-nonsense look at DEI and how to become an effective DEI changemaker.
Resources: Lily Zheng’s website: www.lilyzheng.co Lily’s books: https://lilyzheng.co/home/books/
Why return to normal when we can (and should) go for better? Workplace equity consultant and author Minda Harts returns to the podcast to talk about why we can’t rebuild a better workplace if we’re not anchoring everything in trust. And why transparency is a must. Companies and leaders often talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, but it’s not always demonstrated in ways that are most beneficial to the people in their organizations. Don’t miss this important conversation about pay transparency, stipends for ERG work, and getting back to the core value of trust.
Resources: Minda Harts: www.mindaharts.com
In her third book, “You Are More Than Magic: The Black and Brown Girls’ Guide to Finding Your Voice,” author and workplace equity consultant Minda Harts shares her insights and tools for finding the unique path to success with young readers (and adults). (Hint: Success isn’t magical, but Harts says girls already have all the tools they need to figure out their next best move!) Join us for a conversation about cultivating young allies and helping young people to advocate for themselves through healthy dialogue and courageous listening.
Resources:
Minda Harts: www.mindaharts.com
Minda’s Podcast #SecureTheSeat: www.mindaharts.com/podcast
The number of women advancing in leadership roles isn’t changing. One reason is that a key part of the equation is often missing – men. Many corporate gender initiatives focus on changing women – how to gain confidence, take a seat at the table, negotiate for themselves, and be heard. While these skills are important the underlying structural issues thwarting women’s advancement remain. Building a culture of respect and equal opportunity is not a cause for women to champion alone. Men still dominate leadership roles, control decision-making, and significantly out-earn women. In order to achieve sustainable change and create a culture in which both women and men can excel, men must be a part of the conversation and stand as allies for women. Jeanette Thebeau, Chief Acceleration Officer, of Integrating Women Leaders Foundation, discusses the first nationally-focused study to measure the perceived practice of allyship to women in Corporate America today. Join us for this timely conversation.
Resources:
IWL: https://www.iwlfoundation.org/
IWL Allyship-In-Action Study: https://www.iwlfoundation.org/allyship-in-action-research-study
Most men don’t know that their behavior is less than ideal or supportive of their women co-workers. Understanding what allyship is and living it is foundational to establishing equitable workplaces for women and other marginalized or underrepresented groups in organizations today. Jeanette Thebeau, Chief Acceleration Officer, Integrating Women Leaders Foundation, discusses the first nationally-focused study to measure the perceived practice of allyship to women in Corporate America today. Take this opportunity to learn more about proactive and reactive actions that are at the heart of allyship.
Resources:
IWL: https://www.iwlfoundation.org
IWL Allyship-In-Action Study: https://www.iwlfoundation.org/allyship-in-action-research-study
Each year in November, people and organizations participate in Transgender Awareness Week (and Month) to help raise the visibility of transgender people and address issues members of the community face. Our guest, leadership and empowerment expert and author, Ashley T Brundage, joins us to talk about how you can be an ally to the transgender community. Through a lens of understanding and leveraging our differences, she shares her App of Empowerment along with actionable allyship tips on messaging, creating access points, and our daily communications to help bring people together in safe and secure environments.
Ashley’s website and book: Empowering Differences: www.empoweringdifferences.com
Did you know that 100% of Fortune 100 companies have public commitments to diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) and 76% of Fortune 100 companies have climate plans and goals for 2030? These commitments may have been unthinkable several years ago but today they are a reality. Our guest, Ali Hartman, Head of responsible investment at Tiger Global Impact Ventures, returns to the podcast to talk about environmental, social and governance (ESG). She’s a leading thinker on corporate impact and social change-making. Pour yourself a shrub and join us for a candid discussion about intentions, and actions – and getting the right voices in the room to drive change.
Follow Ali Hartman on Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/alihartman
The world is never going to get less complex than it is right now. Ali Hartman, Head of responsible investment at Tiger Global Impact Ventures, a lifelong change maker who has found her purpose at the intersection of profit and purpose, joins the podcast to discuss creating meaningful, lasting change. Today’s conversation focuses on environmental, social and governance (ESG). If you are ready to be an agent of change this episode is your inspiration and guiding light as Ali shares her tips for building bridges between power and perspective and creating change in scale. Don’t miss part two of this series! Follow Ali on Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/alihartman
National Disability Employment Awareness Month (NDEAM) takes place annually in October. The purpose of NDEAM is to educate about disability employment issues and celebrate the many and varied contributions of America's workers with disabilities. Catarina Rivera, @blindishlatina, disability stigma smasher and consultant, joins the podcast to talk about how leaders and organizations can be more aware and make disability part of the equity equation at work.
Resources:
Catarina Rivera website: www.catarinarivera.com
Free ebook: https://www.catarinarivera.com/freeebook
To celebrate their 50th episode, #WinedDownWednesday co-hosts Amanda Hammett and Jeffery Tobias Halter look ahead to 2023 and discuss DEI trends, quiet quitting, returning to the office, hybrid work, WFH along with the imperative to attract and retain talent. Tune in and wind down.
Resources:
Amanda Hammett: www.amandahammett.com
Jeffery Tobias Halter: www.ywomen.biz
Are you ready to empower your team to leverage their differences to win in the marketplace? While National Coming Out Day was originally geared specifically to the LGBTQ+ community, our guest Ashley T Brundage, empowerment expert and the author of "Empowering Differences," suggests that it is an opportunity to connect and empower all people, especially those who are intersectionally different. She encourages companies to move beyond platitudes to make real commitments and investments in their LGBTQ+ employees, customers, and supply chain. Listen for more details about her research along with tips on leadership actions you can take to empower people to drive change for individuals and organizations.
Resources:
Article: "What Skills do Managers Need?".
Ashley’s website and book: Empowering: www.empoweringdifferences.com
Judy Hoberman, author of “Selling in a Skirt” and “Walking on the Glass Floor,” believes that women want to be treated equally… not identically. In her practice as a sales leadership trainer, consultant and executive leadership expert, she recently surveyed executive women to learn more about women in leadership and what’s going on around them. In addition to sharing the survey findings, Judy also talks about “The Boardroom,” her new initiative for executive women.
Resources: www.judyhoberman.com
“How can I have a life and a career?” This is a common question employees are asking themselves as they seek a more holistic approach to their lives and work in a world forever changed by a global pandemic. For many decades, companies benefited from Boomers who linked their identities to their careers, willingly worked grueling hours and valued logging face time in the office as they climbed the corporate ladder. Gen Z and Millennials, however, are pushing back on traditional workplace expectations and having more conversations about boundaries, true productivity, mental health issues and remote and flexible work. In this episode, Jeffery and Amanda discuss how managers are addressing the hot topic of quiet quitting and figuring out how to best support their organizations’ plans and strategies for 2023. They encourage leaders to listen, evaluate what’s working and what isn’t, and proactively address the stressors impacting their employees with an eye toward workplace transformation and the talent pipeline.
Gender Conversation QuickStarters: https://us10.campaign-archive.com/?u=6dfb2fb28bf146f892e8954ec&id=63511f005f
Reading/ Arianna Huffington: https://thriveglobal.com/stories/arianna-huffington-quiet-quitting-workplace-burnout-crisis/
There isn’t an easy button for creating a gender-equitable workplace. What does it take to get men to participate in women’s leadership and diversity initiatives? Today’s guests agree that it will take leadership and hard work along with a community of allies and advocates to create real, sustainable change. Join us for an unfiltered conversation about advancing women at work. We’re calling this session “beer with the allyship guys” as Amanda Hammett hosts a candid discussion with Jeffery Tobias Halter and returning guests Brad Johnson and David Smith about male engagement and advocacy. Grab a cold one and tune in! You don’t want to miss this extraordinary conversation as these thought leaders grapple with a complex problem, share best practices, and discuss trends. David Smith and Brad Johnson’s website and books: www.workplaceallies.com Jeffery Tobias Halter website and books: www.ywomen.biz
Talking about money is hard. Our guest, Founder & CEO of Artisan Financial Strategies, Meredith Moore, says that it can even be “yucky.” How do we have better conversations about money? Meredith returns to the podcast to talk about the history of women and money and long-held cultural norms around the topic of our finances. Listen to discover why she stresses the importance of financial education and engagement. Don’t miss her tips for establishing a baseline for understanding our finances and improving transparency and communication in our relationships. Join us over a glass of Black Box Pinot Noir as we get real about money.
Resources: www.artisanfsonline.com
Women & Money - A History by Meredith Moore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr0fEXgQYuY
White paper on women, money and power dynamics in relationships. https://artistanfsonline.ck.page/c1315d0290
Parents Guide to Kids and Money: https://artistanfsonline.ck.page/d543769668
Your employees are savvy. They want to see employers’ values and culture ‘baked-in’ to all elements of the employee lifecycle and extended to dealings with customers and vendors. Samantha Pitre Quillen returns to the podcast to detail why performative theatrics are out and why organizations must be genuine as they define foundational values and culture. Tune in for the recipe for the Quillen 5149 (LaCroix, tequila, Sprite), and together let’s look at workplace culture, stress, burnout, and mental wellness in the workplace.
Connect with Samantha: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samantha-pitre-quillen/
In this episode, we pull back the curtain on DEI and delve into the marginalization of the Chief Diversity Officer within many organizations. Tamika Curry Smith returns to Win(e)d Down Wednesday to discuss the paradox many DEI professionals find themselves in today and her insights for taking DEI to the next level organizationally. We’ll also talk about the diversity ‘pipeline problem’ along with the role of leadership in diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. It’s hot outside, and we’re addressing the hot topics inside. Put in your earbuds, and let's get this conversation going.
Connect with Tamika: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamikacurrysmith/
Gender role stereotypes are often learned at a young age. How can we disrupt gender stereotypes in order to create a more equitable world? Michelle Travis returns to the podcast to discuss how gender stereotypes and bias shape gendered education decisions, career paths and conceptions of leadership and how they connect to gendered interactions at work. To help disrupt the formation of these stereotypes, she wrote the children’s book “My Mom Has Two Jobs,” which celebrates working moms for both the unpaid work of parenting and their contributions to the paid-labor force, showing women in a diverse range of career roles. Michelle also shares tips for fathers to help normalize the idea of being a working dad, reminding us that parenting is work and a labor of love for both genders. Pour yourself something refreshing and join this important conversation.
Resources:
About Michelle Travis: https://michelletravis.net
My Mom Has Two Jobs: https://michelletravis.net/my-mom-has-two-jobs/
Fathering Together: https://fatheringtogether.org
Gender Advocacy: https://ywomen.biz/male-advocacy-profile/
Actions for Advocates: https://ywomen.biz/father-of-daughter-initiative/
Men, it’s time to hone your GQ – gender intelligence. Understanding bias in the workplace will help you see how it affects your co-workers. Brad Johnson and David Smith return to the podcast to discuss their book “Good Guys: How Men Can Be Better Allies for Women in the Workplace.” Over hazy IPAs we talk about the role men can play in supporting gender equality, GQ and allyship at home. Listen to learn how to lead loudly and show up as an ally.
Resources: Partnership Audit: Eve Rodsky Fair Play
David and Brad’s books: www.workplaceallies.com
Did you know that the propensity to negotiate is a key factor in helping women stay in the workforce? It’s not just about dollars and pay levels. Consider non-salary requests that will position you for success today and help propel your career forward. Kathryn Valentine returns to Win(e)d Down Wednesday to talk about gender, effective negotiations, and how to position yourself for success. Join us -- we're pairing rosé and Banshee Zinfandel with a discussion on effective negotiation tips for women.
Learn more about what’s negotiable: https://worthmorenegotiations.com
Did you know that 29% of women are the breadwinners in dual-income households? This week, we spend time with financial advisor Meredith Moore talking about women and money. After noticing several trends with her clients, Meredith approached academia for insights and data on personal relationships and money – specifically women breadwinners, income disparity, and decision making. We’ll explore the power dynamics and money along with her insights on how to navigate communications and transparency in your relationship. She also shares her strong recommendation that there are certain things in life that you don’t want to fully delegate to someone else. Don’t miss this important conversation about the essentials of creating a foundation for your financial future over lattes, Black Girl Magic Rosé, and California pinot noir.
Resources: www.artisanfsonline.com
Sometimes it takes a new approach or turns an old idea on its head to allow more people to participate fully at work. Employees often start jobs wildly excited and energetic, but over time they get frazzled and fizzle out. Samantha Pitre Quillen shares her creative and innovative strategies to address workplace stress, burnout, and turnover. Pour yourself something refreshing and join us for a fast-paced session of Win(e)d Down Wednesday with tips to engage and reinvigorate your managers and their teams. We’ll tackle the importance of metrics tied to coaching, mentorship, and promotion and dive into the art of skills building. Connect with Samantha: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samantha-pitre-quillen/
Tamika Curry Smith returns to Win(e)d Down Wednesday to discuss DEI and how organizations can elevate their initiatives to drive action and systemic change. She encourages companies to assess and explore several areas, including their DEI structure and framework. What are the metrics? What about accountability? And most importantly, how do companies extend the responsibility of DEI beyond HR to the whole organization? Tamika asserts that DEI is not an HR-focused strategy, and to be successful, it must reside within the organization with actions taken by every employee. In this blockbuster episode, Tamika shares her insights and strategies for taking DEI to the next level organizationally. Connect with Tamika: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamikacurrysmith/
Disabled people can feel unseen in the workplace. Often they don’t see themselves in the lens of organizational diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. Accessibility is often left out of conversations, initiatives, and planning. Catarina Rivera returns to Win(e)d Down Wednesday to discuss Disability Pride Month and offer suggestions on how to support our colleagues and meet them where they are along with tips for how organizations can better support all team members. Gem alert: Bonus tips for managers on how to run inclusive meetings. Resources: https://www.catarinarivera.com
At the end of the day, it’s all about the people in your organization. Whether it’s the war for talent or the Great Resignation – attracting and retaining talent is mission-critical. Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett discuss how this moment is an opportunity for employee resource groups (ERGs) and business resource groups (BRGs) to tie their initiatives to business outcomes including employee attraction, recruitment and retention. Jeffery shares his tools to help BRG/ERGs write a strategic plan to maximize the impact of their activities (download the BRG/ERG planning tool at ywomen.biz/creating-gender-advocates). Join the hosts as they sip Secret Cellars (OR) Pinot Noir and chamomile tea for this timely conversation.
Resources:
Creating an Integrated Women’s Leadership Strategy Planning Module for Business Resource Groups: https://ywomen.biz/creating-gender-advocates/
Amanda Hammett: https://amandahammett.com
Hazy IPAs set the backdrop for a frank Win(e)d Down Wednesday conversation about workplace gender disparities and why framing it as a women’s issue gives men a pass on being part of the conversation. After learning that women don’t get the same access to mentoring and sponsorship opportunities, Brad Johnson and David Smith set out to better understand what it takes to become excellent mentors to women. Their book, “Athena Rising,” outlines their findings. Pour yourself a cold one and listen to their mentoring dos and don’ts along with tips on finding a mentor.
For more information: www.workplaceallies.com
How do we invite more men into gender equity conversations at work? Michelle Travis suggests using parenthood as an entry point for engagement and allyship. Her research found that when men have daughters, particularly first-born daughters, they tend to become less supportive of traditional gender roles. And they tend to become more supportive of employment discrimination laws, equal pay policies and sexual harassment enforcement. She also found that CEOs who are ‘girl dads’ had real gender equity impacts on their organizations. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn about speaking up and the impact of having a personal stake in an issue. Resources: About Michelle Travis: https://michelletravis.net Fathering Together: https://fatheringtogether.org
"What does authentic leadership look like in the workplace? How do we encourage employees to bring their whole selves to work? Authenticity is a journey and is unique to each of us. In her memoir meets self-help book, Gabrielle Claiborne, co-founder of Transformation Journeys Worldwide, shares her insights into what it took for her to embrace her authenticity as a trans woman, and invites readers to embrace new facets of their unique truths—whatever those look like for them. In this dynamic conversation, Gabrielle outlines steps into your ever-evolving authenticity and tips to connect with your purpose. She also details actions that trans allies and advocates can do right now to foster inclusivity and respectful interactions. Listen today for a portal to living a purposeful life."
How do we create cultures of understanding and belonging for gender-diverse individuals? And what role can each of us play in creating diverse and inclusive workplaces? Gabrielle Claiborne, co-founder of Transformation Journeys Worldwide, works with corporate clients to address the cultural assumptions we all have and develop strategies to create inclusive cultures and workplaces that embrace LGBTQ colleagues–with a focus on trans and gender non-binary people. It’s Pride Month and in light of the anti-transgender legislation that is rolling out locally and nationally now is the time for allies to show up and support their gender-diverse colleagues. The more we show up, the more we elevate conversations, and the more we advocate than collectively we bring visibility to a topic and someone’s lived experience. Get courageous and have uncomfortable conversations–tune in to learn more.
High-achievers this episode is for you. Career coach, author, and host of the podcast, Badass Women at Any Age, Bonnie Marcus returns to discuss her books “The Politics of Promotion: How High-achieving women get ahead and stay ahead” and “Not Done Yet! How Women Over 50 Regain Their Confidence and Claim Workplace Power.” Don’t miss the conversation about gendered ageism, understanding office politics, and navigating organizations today along with tips for new managers to help launch your careers.
Men, are you unsure where to begin or if your involvement is needed (or wanted) to advance women and minorities in the workplace? Tech maverick Eva Helén joins us to talk about her book Women in Tech — A Book for Guys. After discovering that men often tune out during DEI sessions, Eva developed a series of vignettes to share what men are already doing to support women and minorities at work. Her approach allows men to see the range of actions available to them and self-assess their next steps. Tune in to learn the power of the question, “How can I help?” and why it matters when you support your co-workers and colleagues.
Even if you don’t consider yourself a natural-born salesperson, the reality is we’re always selling. Selling ourselves, our ideas and our vision–every day. Leadership and sales training expert Judy Hoberman discusses the importance of selling skills in the climb up the corporate ladder, especially for women. Listen as the dynamic author of “Selling in a Skirt” and “Walking on the Glass Floor” shares her advice for Millennials and Gen Zs who want to fast-track their sales and leadership skills to move ahead. You’ll learn why and how to invest in yourself in this fascinating conversation.
To celebrate Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month, Soon Mee Kim, Chief Diversity, Equity & Inclusion Officer for the Omnicom Public Relations Group, joins us to talk about the role we each can play to enhance diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging in the workplace. We discuss systemic equity, the model minority myth, the bamboo ceiling, the career growth impact of bias and the importance of allyship. Have you ever wondered what to say to colleagues in the wake of a hate crime? Listen for tips to empathize and show that you care. Don’t let silence win!
What assumptions are you making about people with disabilities? What is ableism and how does it impact the workplace? Building an inclusive culture is critical for success in today's marketplace. Our disabled colleagues want to be included and share in organizational goals and outcomes. Catarina Rivera, MSEd, MPH, CPACC, also known as the @BlindishLatina on Instagram, talks about disability, ableism, microaggressions, and other biases that keep people with disabilities out of the workplace or thwart their ability to fully participate. Join us for a candid look at diversity and inclusion–and your role in creating an inclusive culture.
More than 80 percent of women worldwide have experienced gendered ageism in the workplace. Career coach, author and host of the podcast, Badass Women at Any Age, Bonnie Marcus shares findings from her research on gendered ageism --the intersectionality of gender bias and ageism. Given society’s hyper-focus on youth and beauty, older women can face being viewed not only as less attractive but also less competent and valuable than other women, while younger women are viewed as “too green” and incapable of strong leadership. How can organizational leaders understand and address the gendered ageism bias in order to recruit and retain the best talent? Don’t miss this timely discussion.
How can you achieve gender equality in a male-dominated industry? In this episode, tech maverick Eva Helen talks about her book Women in Tech — A Book for Guys, sharing her innovative strategies for bringing the genders together to promote women’s advancement and equality. Many men want to help but don’t know how – or if their involvement would even be welcomed. Others mistakenly believe the diversity issue has been solved, or that women need to act more like men to achieve true equality. Tune in to learn more about Eva’s interviews with 60 male leaders mostly from Silicon Valley, and the actions she suggests men take to support women in the workplace.
On average, American working women earn nearly 20% less than their male counterparts. The numbers are worse when you factor in race and age. This week, Kathryn Valentine answers our questions about the gender pay gap and how we can close it. She encourages us to think more broadly about compensation and outlines a range of actions that organizations, managers, and individuals can take to address disparities. Listen now for an eye-opening episode.
Most companies understand the value of a diverse, equitable and inclusive work environment and its effect on their ability to recruit & retain talent in the current highly competitive environment. It’s an issue that impacts everyone. So, why do so many gender inclusion initiatives focus on changing women, leaving men out of the equation entirely? By creating a category of “women’s issues,” men–often the most powerful stakeholders in organizations–aren’t involved or even aware of the larger impact and aren’t invited to collaborate to create more inclusive workplaces. Guest W. Brad Johnson talks about why and how men have a crucial role to play in promoting equality at work. Don’t miss this frank conversation on male allyship, mentoring, sponsorship along with tips for holding other men accountable.
Gretchen Carlson spoke out and took legal action against a media titan and helped launch the #MeToo movement. She went on to found the nonprofit Lift Our Voices and champion bipartisan legislation to make the workplace a safer place for all. During Women’s History Month, Jeffery and Amanda talk with Gretchen Carlson about how to break the bias in our workplaces to forge a diverse, equitable, and inclusive world.
Gretchen Carlson recently spearheaded the biggest legislative change in labor laws in the past 100 years. It is also the first major piece of legislation in response to the #MeToo movement. Gretchen joins Jeffery and Amanda to discuss the landmark workplace law that forbids companies from forcing sexual harassment and assault claims into arbitration and secrecy – allowing women and men to seek justice in a more equitable way. How will this legislation affect workplace culture going forward? Don’t miss this timely discussion.
What role can each of us play to create and promote a diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplace? Inclusion strategist Ruchika Tulshyan joins Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett to discuss her new book, “Inclusion On Purpose,” and share tips on how to foster a sense of belonging and inclusion at work. Listen for her top tips for managers to #BreakTheBias.
Inclusion starts with you. Yes, you! We each have the power to shift workplace culture. We don’t have to wait — #inclusion starts with *you.” This week on Win(e)d Down Wednesday, Ruchika Tulshyan talks about her new book, “Inclusion On Purpose” and shares actionable ways you can #BreakTheBias in order to create a culture of belonging at work.
Get the show notes for Ruchika Tulshyan: Inclusion is Leadership
Click to Tweet: Listening to an amazing episode on Win(e)d Down Wednesdays featuring @RuchikaTulshyan with your host @AmandaHammett & @JefferyTobiasHalter https://bit.ly/WDWEpisode18
#InclusionisLeadership #Workplace #Diversity #Equity #Intersectionality #WinedDownWednesdays #Podcast
Give Win(e)d Down Wednesdays a review on iTunes!
Shockingly, a recent study found that more than 50 percent of Black employees had a greater sense of belonging during the time they worked from home. We may work at the same place, but often we experience it differently. What does that say about our organizations? We can’t solve what we won’t confront and discuss. How do we create and maintain inclusive cultures across the entire organization? Rather than striving to ‘return to normal, Minda Harts, author of The Memo and Right Within, suggests that we aim to be better. Get the show notes for Making the workplace work for everyone with Minda Harts
Click to Tweet: Listening to an amazing episode on Win(e)d Down Wednesdays featuring @MindaHarts with your host @AmandaHammett & @JefferyTobiasHalter https://bit.ly/WDWEpisode17
#Allyship #Workplace #Diversity #Equity #Intersectionality #WinedDownWednesdays #Podcast
Give Win(e)d Down Wednesdays a review on iTunes!
Really? Many of us consider ourselves to be allies, but do our colleagues agree? When was the last time someone benefited from your allyship? Minda Harts found that more than 70 percent of women of color believed that their managers were not invested in their success. Managing a team takes leadership skills, the ability to handle conflict, and the tools to be an effective coach for people to do their best work. In this episode, Minda talks about the core competencies that leaders need to manage diverse talent so that everyone has an opportunity for a seat at the table and to be successful. Don’t miss this candid segment on the intersection of allyship and leadership and the role each of us can play to forge and promote a diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplace.
Get the show notes for Minda Harts: Do people on your team see you as an ally?
Click to Tweet: Listening to an amazing episode on Win(e)d Down Wednesdays featuring @MindaHarts with your host @AmandaHammett & @JefferyTobiasHalter https://bit.ly/WDWEpisode16
#Allyship #Workplace #Diversity #Equity #Intersectionality #WinedDownWednesdays #Podcast
Give Win(e)d Down Wednesdays a review on iTunes!
During Black History Month we’re looking at the role each of us can play to forge and promote a diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplace. To be successful, organizations need to address diversity, equity, inclusion, and belong. In this episode, Dr. Sheila Robinson, founder Diversity Women Media, suggests that we stop the blame game and take a future-focused approach. Listen for her tips on how to foster a sense of belonging and inclusion and how critical communication is at all levels of the organization. Sheila also discusses her new book, Redefining Your Life D.I.E.T.: Transform How You Look, Feel, and Perform.
In the wake of the murder of George Floyd, Corporate America and people around the globe reacted. Many organizations held town halls, had courageous conversations and sought opportunities to do better and to make a difference. Creating a culture of inclusion with a win/win environment takes leadership. In this segment, Dr. Sheila Robinson, founder Diversity Women Media, encourages companies to define what they are trying to accomplish and explore how they will go about creating change and investing in their people.
Millennials are rising throughout the ranks and moving from individual contributors to front-line people managers and leadership positions. As we celebrate those promotions, Jeffery and Amanda take a look at training and how organizations prepare managers for success and how individuals can set themselves up to succeed in their new roles. Join them for a fast-paced session and lots of insights.
Joann S. Lublin, Pulitzer-winning journalist and the author of Power Moms: How Executive Mothers Navigate Work and Life and “Earning It: Hard-Won Lessons from Trailblazing Women at the Top of the Business World” returns to Win(e)d Down Wednesday to discuss the top two topics she’s tracking for 2022. Listen for her thoughts on employee resource groups and hybrid workplace models. Joann also shares what best-in-class companies are doing to support working parents in order to make working parenthood work. Don’t miss this timely discussion.
Joann S. Lublin, former reporter and editor at The Wall Street Journal and author of Power Moms: How Executive Mothers Navigate Work and Life and “Earning It: Hard-Won Lessons from Trailblazing Women at the Top of the Business World” joins the program to discuss the pressures of working parents and how to create workplaces that work for parents. Joann shares how the workplace is changing and how businesses can successfully retain employees with kids. She also shares her research and tips on how managers can support working parents (and all employees).
Uncorking 2022. Performative DEI, transparency, allyship, and the labor shortage: With no end in sight for the labor shortage, Jeffery and Amanda discuss the topics they are tracking as we enter 2022 – from performative DEI gestures to transparency, allyship, shifting workforce demographics, and talent retention. Over bubbles, they share take-away questions, “How diverse is your leadership?”-- how diverse is your pipeline? Start the new year off with a new habit, Win(e)d Down Wednesdays. ICYMI: Worthy cocktail tutorial: https://youtu.be/7oOkQx6sgKs
This week, over green tea and Coca-Cola Zero Sugar Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett, discuss what front-line leaders and managers can do to advance employee retention. Given the importance of the direct manager on employee engagement and their propensity to stay, Amanda outsides her ‘Stay Framework’ which is based on four C’’s to get your employees to stay: Care, Completed, Challenges, Coaching and the bonus Career Path (downloadable at amandahammett.com/stay). Listen for tips you can implement immediately.
Being a manager is so hard today -- and the Great Resignation has double-down on everyone’s stress and burnout levels. Hosts Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett discuss the role of empathy and share the EVOLVE Model as a tool to help hone your skills. This discussion is ideal for leaders at all levels of the organization. Each of us has a role to play to combat the great resignation. Prep your favorite beverage and join the conversation. Link to the EVOLVE Model: https://ywomen.biz/leading-with-empathy/
In Part II of Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett’s conversation with Tamika Curry Smith and Elba Pareja-Gallagher, two senior executives from the heart of corporate America, they continue the discussion on returning to the office in the wake of Covid. The conversation explores covering, remote work and why, for many women of color, remote work is preferable to returning to the office. Pour your favorite beverage and join the conversation.
For months, the national conversation has revolved around how companies would return to the office in the wake of COVID. This week, Jeffery and Amanda talk with two senior executives from the heart of corporate America, Tamika Curry Smith and Elba Pareja-Gallagher. This episode delves into diversity, equity and inclusion, workplace flexibility, gender, and the impact of COVID. Grab your favorite beverage and join the conversation.
Another 4 million workers left the workforce for the 5th month in a row, Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett catch up on the business and personal impact of the “The Great Resignation”. While there isn’t one reason employees are leaving, business leaders are grappling with how to retain and attract talent. In the episode, your hosts outline the perfect storm of voluntary turnover, social justice and burnout as several of the causes and why it will take more than enhanced perks to stem the tide.
Welcome to Win(e)d Down Wednesdays with gender strategist Jeffery Tobias Halter and generational strategist Amanda Hammett -- a podcast that focuses on diversity, inclusion, intersectionality and equity through the lenses of a Boomer and a Millennial. They delve into DEI topics, examining business implications, talent strategy, and what today’s senior leaders need to know in order to recruit, retain and develop the next generation. In this episode, the hosts continue their conversation about the recent Deloitte Transparency Study. They delve into the findings that highlight the need for accountability to ensure the success of corporate DEI initiatives and how to effectively engage men as allies and advocates. Link for Deloitte Transparency Study - https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/us/Documents/about-deloitte/dei-transparency-report.pdf
Welcome to Win(e)d Down Wednesday with gender strategist Jeffery Tobias Halter and generational strategist Amanda Hammett -- a podcast that focuses on diversity, inclusion, intersectionality and equity through the lenses of a Boomer and a Millennial. In each episode, they delve into DEI topics, examining business implications, talent strategy, and what today’s senior leaders need to know in order to recruit, retain and develop the next generation. This week, they discuss the recent Deloitte Transparency Study and key takeaways regarding millennials, Gen Z, remote work and social justice in the workplace.
Link for Deloitte Transparency Study - https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/us/Documents/about-deloitte/dei-transparency-report.pdf
How are moms coping during the pandemic? For working parents, especially moms, COVID has been the great disrupter. Smriti Rao and Jessie Wei join Win(e)d Down Wednesday hosts Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett for a candid conversation about their experiences at work and at home. Bring your favorite beverage and join the discussion on career transitions, parenting during a pandemic and getting it all done from the kitchen table.
For working parents, especially moms, COVID has been the great disrupter. Smriti Rao, Red Hat, and Jessie Wei, EY, join Win(e)d Down Wednesday hosts Jeffery Tobias Halter and Amanda Hammett for a candid conversation about their experiences at work and at home. In this episode we delve into pandemic parenting, returning to the office, and what working parents want their managers and senior leaders to know. Settle into your chair, pour your favorite beverage and join the conversation. You won’t want to miss a moment of these insights.
Dismantling the glass ceiling has long been talked about as a way to ensure equality for women in the workplace. Although, many companies have discussed its importance, very few companies have made big strides towards that accomplishment. However as millennials and Gen Z's become the largest portions of the workforce in 2020 dismantling the glass ceiling will be a necessity. However, after all of these decades discussing it, how can we actually do it. Turns out, we need to focus our efforts on what McKinsey and LeanIn.org refer to as the "broken rung". Learn more in this episode from Gender Strategist, Jeffery Tobias Halter.
Download the Women + The Broken Rung Whitepaper
CLICK HERE!
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The Transcript - Women + the Broken Rung **Amanda Hammett 0:01**
Hi, my name is Amanda Hammett. And I'm the host of the Next Generation Rockstars Podcast. So today we actually have a special edition for you. For 2020, we decided that we wanted to tackle some of the bigger ideas and concepts in the global workforce and those things that are affecting us every single day that maybe are just below the surface, or maybe things that we just don't think about. So in honor of Women's History Month here in the United States, today's topic is women, particularly women and the intersection of next-generation talents. So my guest today is Jeffrey Tobias Halter. Now, some of you might be a little surprised because to talk about women, I brought in a man and that's very true.
Amanda Hammett 0:47
However, Jeffrey is the president of YWomen and he is a gender strategist. Now Jeffrey didn't just wake up one day and decide, hey, I'm going to be a gender strategist. No, Jeffrey actually led Coca Cola, his early initiatives in the diversity and inclusion world back in the early 2000s. So he has a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge in this area. But Jeffrey and I took it a little bit further, we brought in both of the women of our world for him, next-generation talent for me. And we talked about the broken ROM, which was a term coined by the McKinsey study that they put out in late 2019, in conjunction with the alien organization. And it was a really fascinating study, because all this time, we've been talking about the glass ceiling and breaking the glass ceiling for women. But really, we need to address a parity issue at the very beginning in those early career talent issues. And so, Jeffrey and I spend a lot of time talking about some best practices and things that you can do today to make that happen. So join us take a look at this interview and I would love to hear what you have to say about that. Don't forget to share this and comment below.
Amanda Hammett 2:03
Hi, this is Amanda Hammett. And I'm the host of the Next Generation Rockstars Podcast. Today we have a very special guest. His name is Jeffrey Tobias halter. He is the president of YWomen and he's a gender strategist. Jeffrey, why don't you tell us a little bit about you?
Jeffery Halter 2:20
Yeah. Thanks, Amanda. Thanks for having me on. So basically, my day job focuses on helping companies create an end to end women's leadership strategies, specifically focused on engaging men in the process because we're not going to drive long term systemic change for women without active male engagement.
Amanda Hammett 2:46
Exactly. Perfect. That's amazing. And I love that you're doing that. But I would imagine definitely, you didn't just wake up one day and say a Great idea. I'm going to do something about this. Or maybe you did. Once you tell us a little bit about how did you act doing?
Jeffery Halter 3:02
Yeah, certainly so know if you had told me 20 years ago, this is what I'd be doing. I would have laughed at you. I'm a career sales guy, Procter and Gamble Coca Cola. And in 1999, I was actually doing a staff or patient assignment. I was working in sales training. Before I went back out in the field as a regional vice president. And Coca Cola had a very famous $200 million discrimination lawsuit. We laid off 8000 people. And overnight, I went from working in sales training to leading the diversity education initiative at the company. Now my first reaction was, I'm a straight white guy. What do I know about this diversity thing? What meeting did I not attend to get in charge of this? And then the last thing was, you know, I've got two years' kids, I really need a job. So I'm going to kind of do this diversity thing as long as I can. And so we were charged with training 4000 people in diversity education. now realize it's 2000. And if you've ever seen that episode of the office with the really bad diversity training, this was kind of my project. And I would sit in this program, literally as a hostage and it's my program.
Jeffery Halter 3:53
But I heard stories everyday stories of racism and sexism and homophobia from people that I knew and genuinely respected. And I had what they call a white male epiphany. And a white male epiphany occurs when you realize what white male privilege is, and the world revolves around you. Were always the default, largest number in most meetings. Our voices are always heard. And at that time, I was not ready to be an advocate. I just chose to get curious.
Jeffery Halter 5:07
And so I started having conversations, I would go out and talk to women and African American colleagues and I would say, Hey, I heard this in class. Can you validate? Is this true? And what happens when you have these genuine conversations, you quickly realize that women and other underrepresented groups are having completely different experiences than I'm experiencing as a white male. And so I chose to get more and more curious. Tom Peters had just come out with reimagine it was now 2004 and he was talking about the business case for women. And so this really clicked for me because I had for a time being seen diversity and inclusion kind of a soft HR thing. And what I realized is, in fact, it's a business imperative women buy everything in this country, and yet most sales teams are still made up of men. Women are getting more degrees than men are, whether it's bachelor's, masters, PhDs, Jadis. And so over the course of the last 20 years, I have evolved to a position now where I consult with fortune 500 companies and executive teams and work primarily with men on how to move from not just being an ally. I actually think that term is overused nowadays, I think it's kind of soft. We need to move men to advocacy, because I know you've seen the research that says women are under sponsored and over mentored Well, in my mind, this is the same thing a man mentoring a woman as an ally. I certainly want to congratulate all the men out there who are our allies. We've reached a point in time 2020, where we need advocates, visible vocal men, senior leaders, demonstrating to the organization why this is important.
Amanda Hammett 7:19
I love it. I love that. And I couldn't agree more with everything you said. You're preaching basically to the choir here.
Jeffery Halter 7:27
Of course.
Amanda Hammett 7:28
Let's talk for just a second. You and I have had some conversations today. And Mackenzie recently put out a study they annually put out a study on women in the workplace, partnering with LinkedIn, or I'm sorry Lena, and for quite a while to do this. But the 2019 study was really interesting and you actually pointed out that it would be a very interesting study in my work as well. specifically talking about that in just above the entry-level for Women, then actually I'd like to quote a little something from the intro to this study. So this is lean in 2019 study on women. An increasing number of companies are seeing the value of having more women in leadership, and they're proving that they can make progress on gender diversity. Still, women continue to be underrepresented at every level. To change the numbers, companies need to focus on where the real problem is. We often talk about the quote, the glass ceiling that prevents women from reaching senior leadership positions. In reality, the biggest obstacle that women face is much earlier in the pipeline. At the first step up to manager fixing this quote, broken wrong is the key to achieving parity. Yep. So let's talk about this broken wrong. I think that this is huge and it is something that really we don't hear a whole lot in The vernacular of the DNI space or just in my everyday work. So what is the broken rung mean? Exactly what is...
Jeffery Halter 9:08
You've got to look at this intersectionality of race and women to see really gross underrepresentation. And, and a lot of people might be sitting there thinking, Well, you know, that doesn't happen at my company. McKenzie research is based on 600 multinational companies. So this is very well documented research.
Jeffery Halter 9:08
Yeah, and this is fascinating. The Broken run basically is that first promotion whether that pardons me, individual contributor to senior individual contributor, team member to Team Leader. And what's really fascinating is, most research a lot of the McKenzie research a lot of the lean and research for years is focused on what we would describe as choke points, which we always thought were a director to VP, VP to SVP, SVP, the C suite, right. And what we're finding is and this is the first time they've actually reported on this, the broken rung exists at that first position. And for every 100 men promoted seven Two women are promoted 58 women of color are promoted. And so this isn't just a, a women thing.
Amanda Hammett 10:36
Absolutely.
Jeffery Halter 10:37
And then you have to start to, to unpack what this looks like. Because think about this. Oftentimes, your first promotion in a company comes by another fairly young, possibly not well-trained leader, you know, we tend to focus I know certainly we did a Coca Cola on training directors. And sales leaders and that first level leader gets very little support get very little training. And oh, by the way, in 2020, you know, 10 years ago, that person may be had seven direct reports. Now they probably have 14 because organizations have been flattening, no support, no training. And now we're asking them to make what seems like a pretty routine decision.
Jeffery Halter 11:32
We need to promote someone right into their first job. And yet they've had no training in how to interview unconscious interview to mitigate unconscious bias. Maybe they aren't aware of concepts like diverse slates or more importantly, diverse panels. So slates are ensuring you have, you know, a minimum of one but ideally Two to three candidates who are women are underrepresented groups. Diverse panels are doing the same thing. Because what we're finding is diverse slates don't necessarily work when you as a young female command in your face by three older men. Yeah. And so that's why the interview panel has to also be diverse. And so this one simple thing. Picture this, if we promoted women in their first job at the same rate of men, we would have one more million women move into leadership in the next five years. So we keep thinking this is this huge struggle. And in fact, it starts very early and we can actually do something about it.
Amanda Hammett 12:52
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'd like to circle back to something you just said about those diverse panels and so for those of you who don't aren't aware, Jeffrey is also an author. This is his book. It's called "Why Women" and it is phenomenal. You can see I have maybe left it a little too. But I actually went through and I was thinking about this very thing going into our conversation. And here's something that I've highlighted. I'd like you to talk about it. Many hiring managers often have a preconceived notation of what they're looking for someone who fits their definition of leadership, which is most often based on a traditional mock male model of leadership. I mean, and that is so so interesting because we don't think of it that way. Like this is just leadership. But...
Jeffery Halter 13:45
Yeah, so I'll give you and I can certainly share this with you on your website. So I do a training activity, and I list 30 words associated with management and We asked people to just check off their top 10 words they would associate with managers. She checked them off, no big deal, says what makes a good manager. And then I asked them to put a gender to that word.
Jeffery Halter 14:15
Now, it would be easy to say, you know, these terms are genderless. But I don't let them do that. You've got to pick the first one that pops in your mind. And what we find out is, and this is, this is based on a Google study of 80,000. leaders, and what we find is that two thirds, as many words are associated with men, as with women, the words much stronger things like an analytical risk-taker, assertive, the women words, much softer, much as you would imagine. And then they were asked when you think of a leader, how do you rank the words and instead of two thirds, four-fifths of the words 80% were associated with men, only 20% were associated with women. So this is a great simple exercise. And here's one more caveat on this.
Jeffery Halter 15:18
The New York Times in November of last year did an article and they asked fifth-grade girls to drop pictures of leaders. And literally every little girl drew a picture of a man. And so what it says is this predisposition starts very young. And so it's not just men who are thinking that leaders are men, to women also carry an unconscious bias. So this is just one element of what do we think a leader is? And in my book, I talked about the double bind. dilemma. And this is so critical, particularly for men to understand when you're interviewing women because women face a double bind dilemma. So Amanda, if you're too tough, you know what you're called?
Amanda Hammett 16:15
Yes, I do.
Jeffery Halter 16:16
And if you're too soft, you know what you're called?
Amanda Hammett 16:19
Yeah.
Jeffery Halter 16:20
You're never just right. It's the Goldilocks effect. Men. If you think about a continuum, you know, where assertiveness is at the one end, you know, men can be 90% profanity using pounding the table, you know, aggressive to down a 10%. Quiet, introvert, finance-oriented, but they're still respected as leaders. I don't have research on this, but I believe women fall into about a 45 to 55% narrow band where you know, you're not to a certain If you're not too soft, you're just right. Yes. And so it's a tightrope. It's a huge tightrope, and when we're evaluating talent, or more importantly, the performance reviews leading up to you being promoted, you know, so so assertive is a great word, or aggressive or emotional, you know, women are often called emotional. And that's everything from raising your voice. Oh, by the way, men raise their voice and no one judges them on it.
Jeffery Halter 17:33
Now, many times women are raising their voice because they're not being heard or they're being ignored in a meeting and I interpret that as, you know, oh, she's so emotional about this. Whereas when Ron pounds his fist and and, you know, drops an F-bomb, it's no big deal. And so these little subtle things really factor in and then I'll put one more out there. And it's really a tendency to see ourselves or someone like us in that candidate. This is a huge blind spot for companies that tend to recruit at the same schools. You know, when someone walks in the door, you know, if I went to Georgia Tech and you went to Georgia Tech, Does that just raise you up a notch? You know, in my eyes? Certainly, certainly. Do I, and this is a common one for men.
Jeffery Halter 18:36
You know, do I see myself in you 30 years ago when I was starting out? And so that's much harder for me to look at a young woman and say, Well, you know, gosh, can she really do this. So all of these biases are critical. And so smart companies implement, you know, programmatic elements to eliminate some of these But none of it makes it back down just going full circle down to that first level manager doing the first round of interview. And so I've got one simple solution. One simple solution doesn't cost any money. Every time you have that first level interview, right? I want the managers' manager to just ask a question.
Amanda Hammett 19:24
Okay.
Jeffery Halter 19:25
How many women do you have on the slate? And if the answer is none, then you have a responsibility to look that manager in the eye and say, What are you doing to get some ready? And what are we going to do next time? Because it's just not acceptable, that you don't have any women ready? And oh, by the way, that simple question needs to be asked at every level of leadership because I've seen it in the C suite, where an EDP job comes open and We're sitting in talent review. And Jim puts forward the same three guys he's put up before. And then the CEO never looks at Jim and says, Okay, I'm giving you a pass this time. But what are you doing to get a woman ready? And that simple question is never asked, and it drives me crazy.
Amanda Hammett 20:23
Absolutely. And it's, you are so right, it starts so early. This is actually something that I have ongoing conversations with teams about. So in our company, we do something called the collision course. And it's the collision between leadership and next-gen talent. And there are various points along the way. And this is something that I'm always asking, you know, at these frontline leaders, are they ready? And are they willing to help identify what are you doing to identify these next, next leaders? And the question is always met with deer in the headlights like, you know, no process. And the process that they do have is inherently flawed.
Jeffery Halter 21:04
You know, and being a generational expert, you know, this, you know, I was raised in an era of command and control. You know, in the 90s, it was very easy to be a leader and a manager today. I need to manage Amanda differently than I managed Jim, and Terry, and Monica. And that takes a high degree of skill. And it takes so much more time and so much more investment. But it goes full circle to what do millennials want? What a Gen Z want? They want feedback. They want a challenge. And by the way, they may lead differently than you. Yes. But that's okay. You got to give them a chance. And by the way, they're going to make mistakes. We know we made mistakes, too.
Amanda Hammett 22:01
Yes, it seems like that idea of mistakes. It's just like don't talk about it. Don't talk about it.
Jeffery Halter 22:05
Yeah.
Amanda Hammett 22:06
Absolutely. Yeah. So what would be your suggestion for a company that is just they're really struggling at this first frontline level of preparing women, especially those early in career women to get up to that next to that first level of frontline leadership, what would you suggest to them?
Jeffery Halter 22:26
I think it's important to have programs and processes. You know, this is where HR meets the business. And you've got to have leaders understanding the purpose behind the HR programs and accountability and accountability being the big one. And again, I'll share this with you for your reader or Watchers on the website. But there are 10 things we need to hold leaders accountable in this space. And this is huge. Again. This came out of a McKinsey study delivering through diversity, but it's just as powerful. 86% of companies say they can articulate the business case, but only 16% hold people accountable. And so, you know, I was in sales for 20 years and I had a quota every quarter that if I didn't meet, I would be replaced. We yet we talked about setting goals and metrics for women in leadership and immediately we go, Oh, no, we can't count that we can't track that. We track everything in business, you have to track it. And so it goes back to holding people accountable for some of the things we talked about already. Diverse slates, diverse panels, regrettable losses is a big one. How are you identifying top talent you know, this whole notion of my big point is having a conversation on a weekly, weekly, monthly basis about our differences? And that's as simple as this.
Jeffery Halter 24:16
We all work really hard, but we really don't have time to understand each other. And it goes back to my very first premise around how I came to do this work. And so what I encourage organizations to do, and you can do this at every level, is pull something out of the newspaper, watch a YouTube video, watch a TED talk, and then just talk about it. You know this is we're in the middle of Black History Month, we're going to have Women's History Month, next month, you know, watch a video and then just talk about the concepts. You know, I know we're focused on you know, millennials and women, one of the best things I've ever seen And it's called the American sun. It's a stage play that's now on Netflix. And it stars Kerry Washington. And it's fabulous to show at a team meeting to start a conversation around race. And quite frankly, the things we don't understand about race. But there's great, you know, there are great movies for women, this representation is another one. But they don't have to be big. You know, once a week, the USA Today polls and publishes at least two or three articles on women, or millennials. And so just read the article and talk about it. So that so those are just some of the things I think companies can do.
Amanda Hammett 25:44
Absolutely. I think just opening up those lines of communication is basic first-level stuff that's free, and it can just, it's amazing what it can bring out of it not just seeing people's different perspectives, but also building trust and building those foundational items that you need for a team
Jeffery Halter 26:01
Yeah.
Amanda Hammett 26:01
Absolutely. All right. Well, Jeffrey, this has been really enlightening and eye-opening. Where can my audience find you?
Jeffery Halter 26:10
Yes. So a www.YWomen.biz, the Y being the Y chromosome, pretty easy to manage, and understand. But please go to my website, I have three white papers, I have a free assessment your leaders can take one is quality gender advocate profile, and one is called a male advocate profile. And it has 20 questions that cause you to think about how you become an advocate, but more importantly, the 10 steps and actions you can take to become an activist or an advocate. And so just go out and look around. I've got all kinds of free materials and we'd love to continue this conversation.
Amanda Hammett 26:59
Absolutely. Also, another plug for the book. If you get a copy of this book, you can mark up your own coffee. I like coffee. But again, Jeffery thank you so much for being here for sharing with us and enlightening all of us. Your work is phenomenal. And I am a big fan. So again, thank you to the audience for sharing your time with us. And we look forward to seeing you in the next episode.
Amanda Hammett 27:23
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world. But really share it with your friends with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode, so be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice. And you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
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Season 2 brought leaders from a variety of different industries and company sizes. The one thing they all had in common was their focus on their people. That focus on their employees has made these leaders and these companies some of the fastest growing and best places to work.
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The Transcript - Next Generations Rockstars: Season 2 Wrap Up **[00:00:00.060]**
Welcome to the Next Generations RockstarsHoward Behar podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.
[00:00:14.310]
Hey and welcome to this week's episode of The Next Generation rock stars podcast. So this episode is actually a wrap up of the entire season too. And what an amazing season this was. This season has brought about leaders from all different companies and there have been some big names that we've brought in Howard Behar from Starbucks. There was Horst Schulze who is one of the co-founders of the Ritz Carlton known for their culture known for their customer service. Then there was Fran Katsoudas who is the chief people officer at Cisco Systems globally.
[00:00:50.820]
Matt Schuyler who is the Chief H.R. officer over there. Hilton Hotels again a massive global company. But then there are also people that you may not have heard of before their episode came out. People like. Ben Wright at Velocity global making a huge different difference over there.
[00:00:00.000]
Alan Cherry was the former head of H.R. at Tesla. Now he's at a company called our planet earth and they're doing some amazing work. But then you also have someone like Crystal Khalil at Pausch North America and of course Cassie Buckroyd of Columbia Sportswear. All of those people whether they're a big household name or you know people you might not have heard of before their episode went live. These people are making a difference in their early career talent. And I would venture to guess it's not just their early career talent that they're making a difference for it's really everybody who's lives that they're coming into contact with.
[00:01:49.260]
And the third touching and making a difference on because you know what you source in each and every one of these interviews is that they are creating an environment within their company or a culture within their company or people want to come to work. And when people want to come to work you see a big difference in the type of work that they're doing in the fact that they're giving it their all. They want to innovate. They want to make a difference. They want to be more productive and in the end, companies tend to see increases in productivity profitability.
[00:02:24.630]
You know just a few important things that CEOs like to see on bottom lines. But do you know why they're doing it. It's because these employees feel supported. They feel that their company but more importantly their leader. They feel like they see them as more than just this cog in the big corporate wheel. They feel that their leader and their company sees them holistically as a real person with actual real things going on in their lives. And that's really important. That has made all the difference. Every single one of these leaders is making that difference every single day.
[00:03:05.310]
And I think that is something that each and every one of us can learn from. You know maybe we don't implement everything that my Schuyler at Hilton is implementing across you know a massive global workforce. Maybe it's just we pick out one or two things as lessons learned that we can implement today or maybe you take the lead from someone like Cassie Buckroyd at Columbia Sportswear where she is taking in things and saying OK you know what. This was a great lesson learned. We listened to our employees and this is how we're implementing it.
[00:03:35.630]
You know she's taking in that survey information and then she's taking action and making a real positive change for her employees. So these are just some small things that different companies have done. But what can you do as a leader as an employee of a company maybe as a CEO of a company? What can you do to make a difference for your employees or for your team or maybe your entire company? What are some small things that will have large ripple effects so that the people sitting around you day in and day out know that you see them?
[00:04:13.200]
Not just as someone who gets work done but you see them as somebody who makes a difference you see them as somebody who's human and it has all the emotions and things with being a human that are all involved. We've really seen this massive integration between work and life. It's no longer two separate entities. It really is. An integration. There's no balance to it. It really is integration with all the technology that we've introduced besides cell phones besides email. We really have. Integrated work life and personal life.
[00:04:53.490]
And I feel like that's going to. That trend is going to continue it's only going to become even more integrated as we go along. As more technology is rolled out. So what are you going to do as a leader to stay in front of it? What are you going to do in order to help your employees master that integration? And as a leader what are you going to do for yourself to master that integration.
[00:05:16.090]
So Season 2 was pretty amazing. We had some great guest and I think that you will see season 3 brings about even more amazing guests. Season 3 will be all about young employees so millennials and if we can find some Joneses who are now leading teams maybe for the first time maybe they've been leading teams for a little while now. But we're gonna learn about their lessons learned. What did they learn along the way what was maybe some of the mistakes that they made? And how did their leaders support them how did their company support them as they made that tradition or a transition from individual contributor to leader of a team.
[00:05:57.690]
So looking forward to seeing you in season three of the next generation rock stars that will be launching early 2020. All right see you then.
[00:06:08.920]
So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Next Generations Rockstars: Season 2 Wrap Up appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Employee retention is on the minds of every leader from the C-Suite down. But what if the conversation about #employeeretention is focused on the wrong things? Learn from Fran Katsoudas, Chief People Officer at Cisco Systems as she shares the importance of being more proactive and designing programs that bring out the best in your employees thus making them want to stay and become high performers.
Francine Katsoudas is Executive Vice President and Chief People Officer of Cisco. As the leader of Cisco’s People Strategy and Human Resources Organization, Katsoudas is helping to accelerate Cisco’s transformation through leadership, attracting and retaining the best talent and building a culture of innovation. A major priority for Katsoudas is focusing on how Cisco wins in the talent marketplace while creating a compelling employee experience.
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The Transcript - Building High Performing Teams Welcome to the next generation rock stars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars podcast. I am your host, Amanda Hammett and I am thrilled to have you today. Today's episode is a really special one because I am sharing this episode. It is a joint interview between myself and my husband, Gene Hammett, who is the host of the popular business podcast "Leaders in the Trenches". And together we had the opportunity to sit down in person and interview Fran Katsoudas who is the Chief People Officer at Cisco Systems. Now, one of the most interesting things that came out of this interview and trust me, there were multiple, but just the focus on developing leaders in the way in which Cisco is doing it and trust me, they are doing it in some really innovative and different ways. There were a few stories that Fran shared during this interview that both Gene and I were really taken aback and just awed at how they're approaching developing their leaders. So I think that this is something that each and every leader should think about and take notes from because Fran is, she's a leader, she is a pioneer. She is looking at developing teams. She is looking at developing individuals for 75,000 employees around the globe. And she is doing a fantastic job. So I hope you take lots of notes. And here is Fran Katsoudas with Cisco Systems.
Gene Hammett: 01:43
Hi, this is Gene with leaders in the trenches. And also we have Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: 01:48
Hi, this is Amanda Hammett and this is with the next generation of rock stars.
Gene Hammett: 01:51
If you don't know Amanda's my wife. So, she's been on the podcast before and episode 100 but we have a very special guest today. We have a friend cut us with Cisco. She, I will let her introduce herself because the title is not that hard. It's the chief people officer, which is much easier to say the chief human resources officer. Fran, tell us a little bit about you and who you serve.
Fran Katsoudas: 02:16
Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much. So that my title changed about four years ago and I think that's part of the shift to really focusing on people and experience. And so, I think the people that I serve are all of our employees at Cisco and I take that incredibly seriously. I think it's one of the most amazing jobs. And in my role, I'm helping to hopefully create amazing careers for 75,000 employees.
Gene Hammett: 02:42
I think it's a much better title.
Amanda Hammett: 02:44
I do too. I think that it really reflects the culture that you guys have built at Cisco.
Gene Hammett: 02:51
I, you know, I'm going to let the audience know a little bit more about my research and you too, Fran. The key thing is I study growth companies and I over 300 leaders about what's the most important thing to grow. Is it a customer first or employee first? And 94% of smaller companies will say it's employee first. So I probably know where you are on this, but where do you, where do you rank in that?
Fran Katsoudas: 03:13
Okay. Yeah, you know, this, um, these things go hand in hand. And I, and I think if you asked the question, uh, five or seven years ago, the 94% could be customer first. It could have been, right. I think now all of us realize that when you take care of your people, they take care of the customer and they do the right thing, not only for the customers but for the community as well. And I think that's a little bit of the shift even for large companies like Cisco.
Gene Hammett: 03:38
Well, we're talking to you because you made the list and how many years in a row have you made the great places to work list?
Fran Katsoudas: 03:45
So we've been on the list for 22 years.
Gene Hammett: 03:49
Okay, that's, they put people first.
Amanda Hammett: 03:52
Apparently yes, very much so. I mean, 22 years. That's amazing. And I, has anybody else ever reached that pinnacle?
Fran Katsoudas: 04:00
I do think that there are a few other companies that have. But you know, I'll tell you because I feel it's important to say in 22 years, we've had some really phenomenal years. I think the highest that we've been is number three. And then we had years that were more challenged. And we talked about this the other night. We were at number 90 at one point. And so it's been fascinating for us to be at those numbers and with each year and every level of recognition. I think there was a question around what do we need to do? And sometimes that's been harder and sometimes a little east.
Gene Hammett: 04:36
Well, I want to direct our conversation into a topic that a lot of companies are struggling with it. This is big companies, medium-sized companies, small companies, and that's retaining key employees. So this is, you know, other words retention. Why is retention so important for business today?
Fran Katsoudas: 04:53
Yeah. Cause we know there's nothing better than having amazing people in teams. And so I think we all talk about retention because we don't want to lose that. And especially when you have something that's working, it's just so critical. The other thing that we recognize, there are really unique skills that are out there and from a technology space, skills are changing. Like the life of skill at this moment is becoming shorter and shorter. And so I think that's an element of why we talk about retention.
Amanda Hammett: 05:22
So Fran, in your journey of all of these 22 years on the great places to work list, I would imagine that over the years you guys have put on some key projects to really help you retain that talent and not only retain it, but also rescale it as those skills change.
Fran Katsoudas: 05:40
Yeah. It's interesting because I hesitate a little bit when I think about retention because there's something about that that if you're not careful, you can be on your heels a bit. And so rather than putting in retention programs, what I want to put our amazing programs that allow people to be at their best. And for every employee, they have some very unique things going on at work and at home and there are different paths that we have. And so I feel like our job is to architect these potential paths for people. There was a point probably about seven or eight years ago where I was spending so much time talking about retention and I don't think it was the right dialogue. What I needed to be talking about is how do we help people be at their absolute best? How do we help them work on teams where they feel like their work is having a tremendous impact. So that's a little bit of the shift that we've been through.
Gene Hammett: 06:37
It seems like that's more of a shift from retention is like kind of a reactive to what's going on, whereas you're getting more proactive.
Fran Katsoudas: 06:44
That's what I should have said. Yes,
Amanda Hammett: 06:46
You did. You did. You said that.
Gene Hammett: 06:49
A key question, you just came off the stage great, conversation kind of panel of what Cisco is doing, um, to move forward in the next 22 years. But you mentioned a project and I don't know what it's called, but you ask employees about what do they love and what do they loathe. So how often do you do that and why do you do that?
Fran Katsoudas: 07:10
Yeah, so there's a technology that we put in place. I think it's almost three years ago that Marcus Buckingham created, um, ADP recently acquired this company. And so every week, um, we go on our phones, there's an app that we have and we share our priorities for the week. We share what we loved and what we load from the previous week, and then how we feel about whether or not we're really. Really working in a way that demonstrates our strengths and then the level of value or impact that we think we're having. And it's something that candidly will take me about five minutes. Um, I do it weekly and Chuck Robbins, our CEO reviews my check-in and then he'll provide feedback. And so if you think about it, at its core, what it's doing is it's allowing us to quickly connect on the work. And then there's something a lot more powerful as it's giving chuck insights through what I love around what really fuels me as an employee.
Fran Katsoudas: 08:07
And then what I load, which was those things that drain. And I think as our role as leaders is to really do more of the love and help our employees on the load side of the house.
Amanda Hammett: 08:16
And I will say that I, you know, I've worked with some of your leaders and they have all had that exact same response to, to that APP and to that feedback on a weekly basis and that they really have enjoyed being able to see, okay, where am I missing ball, where can I help my people more? And I think that that's a major cultural just benefit that everybody's enjoyed.
Fran Katsoudas: 08:37
That's so funny Amanda, because um, everyone's different. Right? And so, as a leader, you start to understand your people in different ways. Like there are some members of my team where they rarely put anything in load. So when something is there, I need to get to them. I need a call them, I need to meet him cause I know there's something really heavy for them. So it's kind of fun because as leaders I think you get to know your people and I would never expect that they use at the same way. I think that's wonderful. But we learn a lot.
Gene Hammett: 09:07
It was good. How often do you do it?
Fran Katsoudas: 09:09
I probably do it three out of four weeks, so I will sometimes, if I'm traveling I'll miss a week or if I'm with chuck, but we ask people to do it at least. We try for weekly, at least every other week. And it's just a powerful way for us to connect.
Gene Hammett: 09:26
I want to be clear about this cause for, and you talked about you filling out this and you report to the CEO. Um, but how many thousand people are actually doing this program?
Fran Katsoudas: 09:35
Yes. So we've rolled it out to all employees around the globe. Now I'll tell you the number I, I really, really care about. Um, when we first rolled it out, we were seeing employees enter their information and we could see that in some cases a manager wouldn't read it. And that's pretty heartbreaking. Like, think about it. You go through this, this exercise of putting in your priorities you love and loathe and you're probably like sitting there going, I'm not going to say like, what are they going to say to that? And we worked with our leaders and now that rate is 92%. So 92% of the checkins are red. And we know that for the 8%. Sometimes they're red after the week. but that's really important. I call that the attention rate. And it's a question around our leaders paying attention to our people.
Amanda Hammett: 10:20
Absolutely. And that's one of the biggest things in my work that I see with next generation talent is that they want to have their voices heard. And this is a wonderful, beautiful, almost immediate way to do that.
Gene Hammett: 10:32
I'm going to switch the conversation a little bit. Back to my research. I study fast growing companies and one of the core factors of that has been, um, transparency and the word I actually use because a lot of these fast growing companies or adamant about it and as they use radical transparencies, and that's what you guys said on stage. So what is radical called transparency in terms of leadership?
Fran Katsoudas: 10:55
I think it's sharing what's not working. I think it's sharing those places where you perhaps did something wrong. I think it's just driving an honest discussion sometimes. I think it's actually more about the listening part for us from a senior leadership perspective in January of this year. And it was important to us. We wanted to kick off the year again with, with a signal of what was important to us. We actually shared with all of our employees at a company meeting, we do the monthly, all of the employee relations cases that we've had for the first half of our fiscal year. And we shared with them, you know, cases like cases around bullying and harassment, cases where perhaps I'm, someone felt like they were not being heard. And then we shared with our employees what we had done as a result of those cases. And the response to that, I think will drive more transparency from our employees in their own stories. And it's funny, I've had situations where I'll get out of the elevator and employee will say, Hey, that story that was real. Like I've had that happen to me. And so that's a little bit of what we're really pushing towards. Cause I think when we have that will be better as a company in every way.
Gene Hammett: 12:09
Follow up question. That is a lot of people are interested in transparency and some people are committed. What would you say to those people that are just merely interested?
Fran Katsoudas: 12:17
Well, I get it. I get it because it's hard. It's really hard. And um, we were just on stage with Mark Chandler who is our general counsel at Cisco and he's an amazing partner in that because I think what you have to be willing to do is understand that in some cases, transparency will lead to more conversation and work to be done. But the issues are there. Um, and so I would say that the faster that you can address the issues, the more that you're gonna be able to move on. And so I think we have to move to committed in this regard.
Amanda Hammett: 12:55
So I'd like to switch gears a little bit. Um, something that came up on during that panel was brought up by Amy Chang. Um, but it's something that I've actually seen also in heard from the leadership that I've worked with is the caring, the culture of caring that you have cultivated. But Amy's specifically said it comes from you directly and your team and it trickles down. And I love that. And so I, I'd like to, I'd like to know a little bit more about what benefit do you feel that that's given not only to you and your team, but also overall to your 75,000 employees?
Fran Katsoudas: 13:28
Well, she was very kind. I mean, it really does start with our CEO, Chuck Robbins. I think he's someone that in every engagement you see his passion and caring. Um, and it comes from our employees. And I'm a big believer in this magic of when things happen at the top and then throughout the organization, a lot of times I refer to it as the sandwich. Um, when we were doing work in August, identifying our principles as a company, we went around to, all of our employees around the globe are to focus groups and, um, what came out is they feel that we're a caring company. And so one of our principles is all around how we give of ourselves. I think, you know, my team sets a tone, which I absolutely love and I, and that's something I'm incredibly proud of and I think they do an amazing job. What we work really hard at is how do we connect the business strategy, um, to everything related to culture and people in organization and at the same time be there for one another.
Gene Hammett: 14:36
How do you transform leaders to really think about an increased to caring?
Fran Katsoudas: 14:43
I think leaders need to see it in action. I you know it's really hard. I mean, I think we've all been in situations where perhaps you see someone saying something on the stage and you think, hmm, I don't think that's really how it is. Right? And there's nothing, there's nothing worse than that. Um, and sometimes I feel really fortunate. I, um, I started at Cisco in the contact center. Um, I came in early in career and I answered phones. I remember talking to like 80 customers a day about their technical issues. And I think sometimes when you start at a company at a very entry level, you see so many different types of leaders, um, and you see some really good examples. So the first thing I would say is that leaders have to see it role model at, at every level in the company.
Fran Katsoudas: 15:32
And there can't be an exception and you have to call it when there is, which is incredibly hard. And you have to teach something that we've done recently. It sounds really funny. We've brought actors in to a leadership class and we've had the actors hand an employee a card that says your employee is talking over everyone in a team meeting. Go. And basically you have to have a conversation where you're helping your employee understand that that's going on. And so these are real life experiences. And so we're trying to coach and help and talk through as much as we can and make it real.
Amanda Hammett: 16:08
Awesome.
Gene Hammett: 16:08
That's pretty interesting. I've never heard of...
Amanda Hammett: 16:10
I have literally never heard of that.
Gene Hammett: 16:12
That's bringing actors.
Gene Hammett: 16:24
So let me take this one friend you talked on stage about some work you've done on forming of teams and what makes good teams. I've read some studies from Google as well. I'm sure you've probably read these as well. What can you tell us about best teams?
Fran Katsoudas: 16:44
Yeah, so for us it was really fascinating. We went out to the business about three years ago and we said, identify your best teams. And they identified about 97 teams across the company and we studied the 97 teams and then we studied a control group of 200 teams. And sure enough, we could see a difference. And, and honestly we didn't know if that was going to be the case or not. And so the delta that we saw was in three key areas on the best teams. We could see that employees were playing to their strengths and when employees play to their strengths, there are a lot more creative, there are a lot more productive. So it's pretty amazing for us. The second thing that we saw, and I think this was in the Google study as well, is that on teams where teammates feel like, hey mate, my teammates have my back.
Fran Katsoudas: 17:30
There's a big difference from a safety and trust perspective, that's incredibly important for growth and innovation as well. And then the last thing that we saw is on our best teams teams were aligned on how they were gonna win together. They, they had some shared values as it relates to where they were going. And so those were the three differentiators between the best teams in the control group. And then that became really the philosophy for a lot of what we do from a teams and leaders.
Amanda Hammett: 17:59
I think that, I think that that's really important, especially from my perspective with the young talent, is that finding those good leaders, because that is one of the things that I coach university students to think about is really look for that good first leader. That person that can really help you play to your strengths are figure out what your strengths are. Because coming out of college you may not know exactly what you're good at or you may develop new skills. And being with a leader who can help you do that and can guide you is beautiful. It's wonderful.
Gene Hammett: 18:27
So, Fran, we've been guiding most of these do questions is, is there something that we haven't asked you about that you feel like really would improve the employee experience?
Fran Katsoudas: 18:38
You know, there's something I'll share with you that we're focused on at the moment. And it's something where we're learning a lot and we're developing and there's this, um, there's this belief that we have in something called conscious culture. And the belief set is that when you have a conscious culture, every single employee is a leader within the company. And every single employee's conscious of their role in shaping the company and shaping our culture. There there's three things that we're focused on within this. The first is the environment. This is why, by the way we shared the employee relations cases because we want to have a really honest dialogue around the environment. The second pillar is all about the characteristics and the behaviors. And this is where our principals live. And then the last piece is really around what's your day to day experience. Cause I think if you have amazing principals, but again, your day to day experience is different. That's a big problem. And so for us, that's going to be our focus, but we're doing a lot of experimentation and pilots and we're learning. And it's something that we'll be happy to talk about in the future as well.
Amanda Hammett: 19:47
That's really fantastic.
Gene Hammett: 19:49
Well, we're gonna wrap this up. I one final question. I've heard a lot today, something that I don't hear much in a corporate setting, which is a mindset. I have heard this from my beginnings of becoming a coach. It was like, I guess nine years ago, and I didn't know what it was before that because I was sort of an engineer and I, you know, just get the work done and that's the kind of leader I was. But when I, when I went through this, I realized that the way I was thinking had a huge impact on what I saw and what I did and how I engaged. So what do you do to talk about mindsets and how do you work with your leaders on that?
Fran Katsoudas: 20:30
Yeah, I do think it's incredibly important. You know, one of the things that we do is we talk a lot about servant leadership and I think that's how you start to shift the mindset because basically what you're saying is that as a leader you are in service to the people around you. And that is such a different Lens than get the work done. One of my peers, she did this first and I loved it. Maria Martinez, she showed an org chart and she was at the very bottom of the org chart. And that's a great example of how you start to shift mindset by just signaling no, no, no. Okay. All of the people that I support, they are the important folks in this. And so there are things like that that I think are incredibly important. And then again, yeah, I think just being willing to have conversations that make us think to ask questions that'll make us really pause. I think those are all elements of how you change a mindset.
Gene Hammett: 21:22
So this wraps up a special episode of leaders in the trenches and the next generation rockstars.
Gene Hammett: 21:28
Thank you Fran for being here.
Fran Katsoudas: 21:29
Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: 21:30
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the next generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
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Employee retention is one of the biggest and most expensive problems that companies have. If you have an employee leave before you are ready for them to leave, you know the cost of replacing that person is going to be expensive. Employee retention for some roles can be higher than 50 percent in a 12 month period. My special guest today is Gene Hammett, my husband who is a Speaker, Author, and Host of the Podcast "Growth Think Tank".
In this special episode, we look at employee retention in a fun way. We analyze the five types of workers that are hurting your bottom line. Gene and I share specific types of people that will cause a turnover. We talk about why employee retention matters.
Gene Hammett is a Best-Selling Author, Keynote Speaker, Proven Business Consultant and Founder of Growth Think Tank (formerly know as “Leaders in the Trenches) recognized by Inc.com and Entrepreneur.com for being a top podcast for leaders.
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The Transcript - The 5 Types of Workers Hurting Your Employee Retention [00:00:00.060] **- Amanda**
Welcome to the Next Generation Rock stars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.
[00:00:14.940] - Amanda
So today's episode is gonna be a little bit different than what you're used to seeing from me today. I've partnered with my hubby right here my hubby, my business partner Gene Hammett.
[00:00:25.590] - Gene
Well glad to be here with you. I run a podcast called Growth Think Tank and I work with the founders and leaders of the INC 5000 companies growing fast as one percent of companies in the world.
[00:00:39.510] - Amanda
Absolutely. So we are going to be taking a look at where our work collides and that happens to be in the world of employee retention. So this episode today is talking about the five types of workers who are hurting your employee retention. So follow along with us as we tell some comical stories from our own personal work experience or maybe from some of the companies that we've worked with previously where we talk about each type of the employees and how it's actually hurting your employee retention. But in there we're also going to be offering up a free framework that Gene and I have perfected over the years through our own work as entrepreneurs but also in working with other companies.
[00:01:24.360] - Amanda
And this framework is called the "Stay Framework" and it is super simple. It's something that we use to keep employees happy fulfilled and motivated at work. And let me tell you some of these things are so easy that you can implement them to day and see major major results out of your employees because that's all what we want. We want our employees to be productive. We want them to be efficient. But we also want them to stay. So sign up to get the free stay framework and with it we'll be offering up a free training that we've partnered with a company called Velocity global.
[00:02:01.950] - Amanda
Now velocity global CEO Ben Wright will be on doing this training with us. And Ben actually runs a PEO company which is a employee benefits company. And this is global so companies that are small medium sized that are struggling with those benefit pieces those are pieces that can trip up any company Ben's company velocity global will swoop in and help you fix it.
[00:02:26.400] - Gene
So where do they get that report?
[00:02:27.540] - Amanda
So if you go to AmandaHammett.com/Stay you can download that report to day. All right here's the episode.
[00:02:37.260] - Gene
Employee retention I really love this conversation because it really is one of the biggest things going on in our workforce. What do you think about employee routines.
[00:02:46.200] - Amanda
This is something I hear over and over and over again. Anytime I'm at a conference speaking or if I'm working with employees there are companies they're always saying how can we keep more of our employees.
[00:02:58.680] - Gene
There's a war for talent. You probably feel it because you want to have the best workers You want to have the most talented. You want them to to be a part of the culture and you want to make sure you're very intentional about creating a kind of work experience that makes it so that they really love to come to work. But employee retention is something that a lot of people kind of like it's too fluffy right. Because it's not something that is on the balance sheet or the panel. If you had a number on your financials that said exactly what it's costing you because of employee retention you'd be surprised and you'd pay a lot more attention to it.
[00:03:37.770] - Amanda
Absolutely. The cost of employee retention is staggering. If CFO knew exactly how much this was costing it would change the way that companies around the world would operate because right now employee retention is broken up into so many different buckets whether it's training or management or recruiting cos it's it's all broken up so it's not one specific number. But the thing is that actually according to Gallup they estimate that every single year the cost the American economy over a trillion dollars just in employee turnover.
[00:04:16.290] - Gene
Let me jump in here because that's a big number. Like a trillion is really big. But you know let's talk about it from a sense of what is it costing you right now.
[00:04:25.780] - Amanda
So sure, which is the society for Human Resource Management estimates that it actually costs between one and a half and two times that person's salary in order to replace them. So that is the recruiting cost that is the more soft cost. So like the manager training time getting that person ramped up. But let's be honest a lot of the industries that I work with they have employees that have been there 30-40 years. They are that amount of corporate knowledge that walks out the door. It's going to take years and years and years to replicate that into a new person. So that to you know two times their salary I think is easily done.
[00:05:07.640] - Gene
That's really for knowledge workers. Like if you had someone that was an hourly employee it's going to be less but there still is a cost to to employee return.
[00:05:16.070] - Amanda
Oh absolutely. But even in the hourly space you know there are a lot of situations where you have people that have been there 20, 30, 40 years and so they're taking with them a lot of that knowledge. So it is an ongoing issue.
[00:05:29.750] - Gene
I had a workshop a few weeks ago that you attended and one of the clients in there talked about losing. Things at twenty five employees in one month. Yeah. And I said know what do you think that cost you. He goes I know exactly what it cost me because I had to get temporary workers. These are hourly paid. And it cost him a quarter of a million dollars.
[00:05:49.360] - Amanda
In one month.
[00:05:50.040] - Gene
In one month. So It is costing you a lot of money not really understanding this employee retention. So that's the reason why we put together this episode we've come together. You know I focus on a different set of clients which you've already explained and Amanda has the corporate side of this. But together we've seen this and we want to share with you and make this a little bit fun. So we're going to talk about the five types of workers that are hurting. Your employee retention. So. You're ready.
[00:06:21.050] - Amanda
Your lately. Yeah. That's her. These are some good ones. And we've all seen each of these. Play out in our own careers. So the first one is the micro manager. I mean come on we have all seen this time and time again.
[00:06:36.610] - Gene
I'll be honest I've probably been a micromanager from time to time. It's easy to be a micromanager because if you're an A player if you've done the work before you know exactly what to do and you can actually just tell them and that's the easiest quickest thing for you to do is to tell them the exact steps. Is that right.
[00:06:59.430] - Amanda
Right. But I think a micromanager there's there's more to it. It's standing over. It's like constantly like in their face. What are you doing now what are you doing now. And it gets to the point where the employee can't even do their work because they're so focused on responding to you or answering to you that they end up having to spend a lot more time and anxiety invested in just calming you and dealing with you.
[00:07:23.880] - Gene
This reminds me of a story of one of my clients who you know before he became an entrepreneur was talking about. You know his manager and this this guy was the traditional micromanager. He was hired to do some marketing for the company and the the owner of the company knew a little bit about marketing enough to be dangerous as they say. But he would second guess everything that that was suggested as important or the next steps. And he would you know. Talk about the newsletter and the open rates and why did it happen. And I remember one specific details he was like well I didn't get it and it was back and forth back and forth and he's like Did you check your spam folder.
[00:08:03.540] - Gene
He goes It's not in my spam folder. And then all of a. Guess what it was in the spam folder. So you know there's a lot of different types of managers out there but the micro manager. Probably is one of the worse because you think you're doing the right thing but usually you're not.
[00:08:20.170] - Amanda
Yeah absolutely. So you know I do a lot with the younger employees those under 30 early in career and this is something I hear consistently over and over again is this micromanager and how it's just devastating to your career in a lot of ways. I had a young lady come up to me at a conference recently and she told me about her manager her former manager. She said that he's basically. Had her sit down at the end of the day not during the actual workday but at the end of the day.
[00:08:54.070] - Amanda
And she had to write out everything that she did that entire day broken down into 15 minute increments. Now keep in mind this young lady was not an hourly employee. She was a salaried employee and he expected this to come to his email box no earlier than six 15. Now the office closed at 6:00 but she was not to work on it during the day. And she had to do this every single day. And if she didn't I mean there was consequences the following day. And now I don't think it's going to shock anybody to tell you that she did not last even a year at this company before she was gone and it all had to do with this micromanager.
[00:09:35.080] - Gene
I want to make sure we connect the dots here because the micromanager you may thinking you know how is that hurting retention. Well you may have heard this before. I think it's just so appropriate but people don't leave jobs they leave managers. Absolutely. And we probably all had bad managers that we reported to. That caused us to leave companies. And that is the reason why it's number one in the list. It is probably one of the most common. And it really is something that we wanted to kind of draw you into this because some of the others are gonna be a little bit more maybe even fun to talk about because you when we came together we had a lot of fun putting all these together and just for you.
[00:10:18.760] - Amanda
All right. So the second one is not a micromanager but a clueless boss. Now I want to talk about this from my own personal experience. I had a boss one time and I'm not going to name names. However. Every single day or every single interaction I had with this person I would just sit back and ask myself How in the world did you become a manager. How are you in charge of leading people and not just one or two. I mean 50 or 60 people and I was flabbergasted daily. You remember those days.
[00:10:55.670] - Gene
I do. They were stressful because you cried a lot. But I I've been through this too. I mean mine was a little bit different. I've I respected this manager but the way they showed up had no regard for the company growing and moving forward. It was just a place for them to kind of I was more like a hobby than it was anything else and I say clueless because it really did feel like I'm pushing forward the business harder than the owner of the business was. And it really. Really allowed me to reflect on what kind of boss I wanted to be in this whole thing and I wanted to be the exact opposite.
[00:11:35.380] - Amanda
Absolutely. But I think in that situation I mean she actually had personal shoppers coming in. She had no clue literally what was going on in the day to day.
[00:11:44.860] - Gene
She she said she did but she was just checked out the most of it. You know it's hard to get that kind of work done in a couple of hours. It was a small operation. I grew a lot because I was forced to think self which was good for me because I had that drive but it really is just as clueless bosses is. The people that you really have no respect for.
[00:12:06.970] - Amanda
Yeah.
[00:12:07.270] - Gene
Is that fair?
[00:12:07.880] - Amanda
Absolutely. But in my case I mean he was smart in a certain way. But he would ask questions of me and meetings or of anybody and everybody was just staring at him and you could tell that they were like. Kind of an idiot here and I felt really bad but at the same time I eventually just had to start saying hey this is how it is. This is this is the decisions that we need to be making this is the direction that we need to be taking. And he actually asked me in the exit interview if I had listened to you would would you be leaving. And I said. Probably not.
[00:12:42.150] - Amanda
At least not now.
[00:12:43.290] - Gene
Well I'm thinking about this right now and we could put this together. We we talked about stories that could fit along with it and we we picked two personal stories here because. We thought you could relate to them but also we we left both those jobs so we quit. And that really drives into you know you want to make sure you pay attention to this clueless boss character if you will because it will impact your employee retention.
[00:13:11.910] - Amanda
I will actually say that this particular boss situation that I was talking about the turnover there was enormous. I mean it was a constant churn of employees in and out in and out in and out some roles. Obviously a lot more than others but it was like you you almost got to the point where you didn't want to invest in getting to know somebody new because you knew that they'd be gone within you know six months at the most.
[00:13:39.500] - Gene
Let's hold up here for a second because we're talking about these types of workers that are hurting your employee retention if you want to be a better manager and you want to really create the kind of leadership that people admire then you want to have a simple framework that we've developed over a few years of working with leaders that will help you increase the employee retention. We call it the stay framework.
[00:14:00.770] - Amanda
Absolutely. And this framework is super easy and it's super easy to implement and use every single day with your employees because again at the end of the day you want to keep them. So we have boil this down to one page one simple page you can just easily implement. So sign up and get it below.
[00:14:19.820] - Gene
There is one thing in there that we have seen that almost every manager is leaving out. They don't even know to include it. They're actually opposed to it but the power of this one little thing that's inside there that takes about five minutes is really a game changer when it comes to employee retention.
[00:14:37.580] - Amanda
Absolutely. I mentioned it when I spoke at a conference recently and it was just profound to everybody in that audience. So if you want to get the framework to help you retain your employees be sure to go to AmandaHammett.com/Stay and download that today. All right. So the third type of employee that is chilling your retention. It is the loafer.
[00:15:07.300] - Gene
The loafer is the person we all know that tries to seem like they're working. But they're never really getting anything done.
[00:15:14.380] - Amanda
Yeah. They are doing the bare minimum in order to survive in order to continue to collect that paycheck. And it's really frustrating for everybody else because they're actually having to pick up the slack because you know this person didn't get things done on time or they're wondering around the office drinking coffee and talking to people. And what are they actually doing. What are they actually accomplishing. It's fascinating.
[00:15:38.710] - Gene
Everyone knows that social butterfly. And they seem to never be really doing the work that they're supposed to be doing. I don't know how when a manager sits down with that person that they can actually. You know not just find them on the spot.
[00:15:52.860] - Amanda
I think what it is is a lot of times they're able to hide. They're able to find themselves into situations with managers who are not having these. Constant conversations about what's going on. How can we help you.
[00:16:07.050] - Gene
Well this reminds me of a story that I was involved in the company that went through a merger and you bring over two cultures and they combined together and that happens from time to time. And in this case this this founder was talking about you know bringing over a group of people that just didn't seem to fit and those people were told to to really operate in a different way than what they were used to. And it really taught cause a lot of them to just kind of switch off and so they just collected a paycheck.
[00:16:40.980] - Gene
They showed up day in and day out. They were at the meetings they were supposed to be at. Everything looked from the surface like they were doing what they're supposed to be doing. But we both know the truth. They were just loafing around.
[00:16:52.350] - Amanda
Oh absolutely. I mean you know I have. Plenty of stories about this. You know whether it's my own personal work history or dealing with companies that I've worked with. But one stands out in my mind and this person wandered around drank coffee checked Facebook regularly. I mean constantly was updating Facebook or social media and it was just it was fascinating because everybody knew who this person was and loved it when they stopped by and chatted for a minute. But at the end of the day what did this person actually accomplish. I'm still baffled by that.
[00:17:29.070] - Gene
So we're talking about employee retention. I want to be clear you want the loafer to leave.
[00:17:35.010] - Amanda
I was so frustrated with the loafer.
[00:17:39.860] - Gene
But that's exactly the reason why you need to be tuned into this because. That kind of person that loafer is driving others away if you don't have a high enough standard for the work then others won't take the whole job very seriously and they'll be looking for a place where they can can really be a self starter that can really be appreciated for doing the work and they want to be surrounded by others that are doing the work.
[00:18:05.310] - Amanda
Absolutely I mean this the low four wheel drive away you're eight players. Absolutely. They can't stand to see this. And so you know a players want to work with other players not with loafers. Got to lose the low.
[00:18:22.600] - Gene
All right so let's go into number four because it is this is a fun one. We had to put it in there because it happens from time to time. I think you've had more experience with this.
[00:18:32.930] - Amanda
I have.
[00:18:34.150] - Gene
But the fourth type of employee that is killing your employee retention is the hired. That one person that flies off the handle way too quick. They they really overexaggerate certain things. And I'll be cleared here. You want them to leave too. But you also want to make sure that you're creating a place and employee experience where these people don't exist.
[00:18:58.870] - Amanda
Absolutely. I mean for one in this day and age we need to you know employees sense of safety needs to come. It's paramount to everything else. And in certain situations these hotheads can get pretty extreme and can make you feel unsafe. Now I worked with a certain hothead and we found ourselves always walking on eggshells around this person constantly tiptoeing Oh how is he going to react to this. And you know some situations he would be great. In other situations it would just explode. One day he actually threw a chair in a conference room up against the window it bounced back and almost hit somebody.
[00:19:40.660] - Amanda
But that was actually the day that myself and a few other people decided we were out but cause of this hothead.
[00:19:47.500] - Gene
The one of the number one factors of team success is psychological safety. This comes from the air startle work at Google. It's done with many times over with companies looking at this. So creating a place where this hothead doesn't survive doesn't the last is a really important part of your leadership.
[00:20:07.870] - Amanda
Absolutely. And you know it really is up to the leaders to recognize this kind of behavior and nip it in the bud. Move that person out. This is not something that you want to continue because other people are. Are constantly thinking about. I've got to go. I've got to get out of here. I can't continue to work with this person.
[00:20:30.850] - Gene
All right. Number five I think this one's the hardest two to really get your head around but it is a game changer when you think about this. If you value your culture then this is the type of person that you must let go of. Number five is the toxic superstar. Yes. We we all have probably work with people that have rubbed us the wrong way but they were good at what they did.
[00:20:57.280] - Amanda
Absolutely.
[00:20:58.660] - Gene
I had a client once where we were sitting around with the CEO and the CEO of this small company about 30 people and we were talking about you know give me the name of two people that really give you frustration as a leader.
[00:21:13.780] - Gene
Well, two ladies came up the names came up I won't share the names but one of them cried all the time. And I get it. Like you don't want to have these conversations and it seems to me daily that she was crying and I asked why was she crying. Well that gets us back into number two which is the toxic superstar in this in their world. She was a high performer she was. She was in recruiting. She was really able to do the work of two to three employees.
[00:21:41.470] - Gene
Which is impressive. But if it comes at the cost of her being toxic and driving others away because it was truly what I listed through how many people had she drink driven away it was like four in the last like three four months really a very expensive decision to keep that high performer on.
[00:21:58.900] - Amanda
Absolutely. And not only that. Let's be very clear she was specifically named in exit interviews as this person is the reason I'm leaving.
[00:22:07.660] - Gene
I got I asked details because I was curious about this and there were some expletives that were discussed about how she showed up. There was also the fact that she lied to to get work and she would work extra hours on the weekend to cover this up. This toxic superstar is seducing in the sense that they are performing at a higher level than others but it is at the cost of the culture. You as the leader or a manager has to really make some hard decisions because. It is hurting your employee retention.
[00:22:40.900] - Amanda
Absolutely. And just think about the team or the people in her environment. I mean they are constantly thinking about I've got to get another job. I've got to get out of here because you know this is not an environment that they want to spend eight hours a day and plus. Every single day.
[00:22:59.830] - Gene
So these are the five types of employees that are hurting your employee retention. We went through this. We want to have fun with you because you probably got some of these in your workspace right now.
[00:23:10.760] - Amanda
Absolutely.
[00:23:11.460] - Gene
And I want you to think about this. You. Sit down maybe make a jot a few names down you know where do they fit in this. And are they really hurting the employee experience overall. And are they truly costing people to lead the company.
[00:23:26.410] - Amanda
Absolutely. And I think that when you're really honest about this and you really start thinking about the different people that would fall into these five categories. It might scare you a little bit. Honestly.
[00:23:40.770] - Gene
So you may be thinking about what do you do with all this because this is not our traditional episode where we're interviewing people and this is not your traditional episode where we're giving you the step by step because what we wanted to let you know this we've created through a partnership a training about employee retention and it really is something I'm really proud of. It comes along with the stay framework that we've mentioned that stay framework will help you be a better leader tomorrow. You can literally Download it today and use it in your next conversation and you will see impact right away.
[00:24:13.630] - Amanda
Absolutely, this is something that we have put together through trial and error over the years working with. Our own company working with other companies and really seeing what are these managers and leaders that are the highest performers that have melded together a team that is just trucking along and is just super efficient and really seems to just go at it every single day. What are they doing so what are some of their best practices. So we have pulled them together and let me tell you some of these are ridiculously easy. And it is shocking to me every single day when I see leaders and managers not doing this and then yet they're also complaining I can't keep my people.
[00:24:58.180] - Amanda
Well here is the answer and it is super easy. The Stay framework can be downloaded at AmandaHammett.com/Stay.
[00:25:06.190] - Gene
Well that wraps up this episode really excited to be able to share this work with you to come together with my beautiful wife. I really have a lot of respect for what she's done in the corporate world and really wanted to share something with you because I feel like you could be the leaders that you really wanted to be by understanding these types of employees. But more by getting that stay framework so make sure you go ahead do that.
[00:25:29.350] - Amanda
Absolutely. And of course join us for the free training that we will be doing along with that and we'll be including our partners velocity global. So thank you again for joining us. And we will see you in the next episode.
[00:25:41.250] - Gene
As always lead with courage.
[00:25:43.510] - Amanda
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of The Next Generation rock stars where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case don't keep me a secret. Share this episode with the world but really share it with your friends with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward.
[00:26:24.470] - Amanda
Now of course I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post The 5 Types of Workers Hurting Your Employee Retention appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Our lives our busy and stressful these days. But what if our employers helped us face those things that are stressing us out? Things like #studentloandebt or becoming a #1sttimehomebuyer or finding the right doctor for your new baby? Cassie Buckroyd of Columbia Sportwear is leading the way for companies to take a holistic approach to employee well-being. Cassie knows that employees who are healthy and happy are more productive, efficient, innovative and tend to stay with their employers longer!
Cassie (Romano) Buckroyd is the Manager of Wellness Programs. As the first person to fill the Wellness Program Manager role in 2014, she spent 4 years building a comprehensive, robust corporate initiative focused on holistic wellbeing and employee development through self-care. Her programming is centered on physical, social, financial, career and community health.
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Tweet *Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The Transcript - How Holistic Wellness Programs Can Take the Stress Out of Your Employees Lives [00:00:00.060] - **Amanda Hammett**
Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.
[00:00:14.490] - Amanda Hammett
Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. And today we have an amazing gas. Her name is Cassie Buckroyd and she is with Columbia Sportswear where she is the manager of wellbeing programs. Cassie welcome to the show.
[00:00:29.790] - Cassie Buckroyd
Thanks for having me.
[00:00:31.230] - Amanda Hammett
Wonderful. I'm super excited to talk to you today.You guys are doing some really amazing things you you guys are really meeting your employees where they are in life and in their professional lives. And we're going to dive into that. But before we do much to tell the audience a little bit about you.
[00:00:50.310] - Cassie Buckroyd
Sure. So I am a native Oregonian born and raised near Portland which is where Columbia is headquartered just. In my spare time I enjoy the outdoors which is of course aligned with our brand. So it's great to work at a company like Columbia where I can live my my interest. I've been at Columbia for about five years now where I started as a wellness program manager really a bit of an individual fellow lone lone wolf. I like to call myself I was the first person in that position tasked with building wellness initiatives and kind of determining what that looks like.
[00:01:29.730] - Cassie Buckroyd
And so I've done that over the last five years about a little over a year ago we changed our model of how we look at total rewards and I was then promoted to manager Wellbeing Program. So that includes many of our total rewards programs that would benefit wellness. Leave of absence. And we've got a new H.R. tool digital communications arm that we're building up right now.
[00:01:55.830] - Amanda Hammett
Very cool so just just a couple of things that affect people's lives not busy at all not at all at all. So let's use a little bit about this Total Rewards program.I mean before we turned on the recording you and I were having a little bit of conversation about it. But know tell us about the pillars and tell us all about it.
[00:02:14.370] - Cassie Buckroyd
Yeah it's super exciting. I developed it based on rap and Hadas five elements of well-being which is from Gallup really well research lots of data to support kind of the different components that that factor into an individual's well-being. So we modified them a little bit based on our population and who we are the company. So the five are physical. Social emotional community financial and career. So we really bucket our programs into those five areas. And I think it's important to know also that you know that my team is not running all of these programs.
[00:02:57.180] - Cassie Buckroyd
So for example community is a pillar that we really work a lot with our corporate responsibility team on. They're very active in the outdoor community. There's all kinds of sustainability programs going on that really that are important to employees. So we really work with them on stuff like that. There's a volunteer program and then career is. Things that are tied into compensation and career path as well as learning development and how we're doing performance management and things of that nature. Financial for one K compensation again I mean there's a lot that goes into all of these things and then social emotional.
[00:03:38.070] - Cassie Buckroyd
We're really into kind of. Building community here. Creating those special connections within our employee population and giving people the opportunity to get to know each other outside of the meeting room for example that we have a number of programs that tied to that as well as things like traditional ERP programs and the physical is really kind of where we've got it dialed in. I mean we're we're active brand. We're an active Albany one. Yeah. One of our core values is to enjoy an active life. So you know I walked into a situation where there was already a lot of fitness programs and outdoor excursions and things like that. So that one's been dialed in for a long time but we're really focused on building the other four.
[00:04:17.610] - Amanda Hammett
That's amazing. So I mean you guys have a lot going on but give the audience a little bit of some context here because your your employees are age wise maybe a little bit different than some of my other clients who are on the older side.
[00:04:36.490] - Cassie Buckroyd
Yeah well. Absolutely. I I've been working in corporate wellness for 13 years and have. Before I came to Columbia I was more on the consulting side and program management and so I worked with. I've worked with lots and lots of employers. And the thing that really struck me when I looked at our data was how young our population is and the fact that we have so many of the people who would be considered millennials and our population and now we've got Generation Z coming up. So it's really important to look at kind of the things that appeals that that population and the other thing that I noticed is that because we're younger we are healthier we don't have things like chronic conditions that impact our employees so we want to keep them healthy and we want to look outside of the box of traditional well-being which.
[00:05:26.400] - Cassie Buckroyd
Typically. Includes. The physical aspects of well-being and maybe emotional. And I think that's really what today's workforce is looking for is kind of that holistic view into wellbeing. So including the other pillars are really important the community the financial and the career pathways. And so because our our employees are so much they are younger than than your average workforce. Those are the things that we're really focused on to show value as an employer and attract our barber force.
[00:05:56.490] - Amanda Hammett
Absolutely. Oh gosh. So I have a lot of questions and I'm trying to just dial in school one but let's actually let's share some stories about what you are doing under each of these pillars because you know you mentioned five and obviously you're working with some of the different teams on different things but let's focus in on on some of the ones that would be most important to this younger workforce like oh I don't know the financial piece of it.
[00:06:21.850] - Cassie Buckroyd
Right. I think that's a great example and that's something that we've really been focused on. So. We're financial. We've got our 4 1 k program things that are more traditional. Compensation and things like that bonus all that. So but really today's workforce the younger workforce they're entering with things like student loan debt they're looking at potentially you know buying a home and then, we do. People are pretty focused on the phone game saving for retirement so how are you today. Our workforce is looking at how to how to balance all of that.
[00:06:59.970] - Cassie Buckroyd
So we've got. A lot of resources that we've put in place to help support that. So anything from onsite classes on home buying and retirement planning. And things of that nature to a race a tool that we've put in place where that helps employees prioritize how they're going to pay down their student loan debt and it type in their personal situation into the platform. So really understanding that yeah retirement is important but our workforce. Probably has other things that they are concerned at before they can look at. Putting away money for Fraulein K so paying down the student loan. Debt. Yeah.
[00:07:40.820] - Amanda Hammett
Absolutely. I mean I can tell you from personal experience just traveling across the world and all across the country in this particular case and talking to students or talking to young people. This is a number one concern for them and it's keeping them from you know. Buying a house or being able to move and do the things that they want because they're constantly. It is built into this emotional fear and it manifests itself physically and and it just becomes a nasty spiral. So a great head on and giving them the resources to do that. It actually affects other pillars that you guys talk about. So. Yeah right.
[00:08:22.130] - Cassie Buckroyd
Yeah. And then from our other pillars so one of my favorites his career and we worked really closely with our learning and leadership development team to look at. What. Classes are being offered and how we can tie well-being into the classes. But they've done something really cool where they've worked with our senior leadership team to identify what are the key. Skills that our workforce needs to kind of build for the future to make sure that work for the company of the future that we want to be and I think that the younger workforce are these days are looking for things like that they want to be developed and they want those opportunities to expand their skill set and so the learning and leadership development team has developed or has identified twelve.
[00:09:07.640] - Cassie Buckroyd
Capabilities that they work with our senior leadership team to kind of hone in on and they're now building out their curriculum on these top capabilities so that no one where we're providing opportunities for employees to develop themselves. And then we're also building that workforce that we need for the future. So I think that's a really cool program. And I think it's a good example of how my team. Works functionally with other teams within each hour that are. Impacting employees.
[00:09:37.130] - Amanda Hammett
Yes absolutely. And I think that's really important because some companies they really do silo their their H.R. functions and it's really almost to the detriment of the employee long term right. Circling back though to the to the leadership and development that you just talked about. So these programs are the individuals selected to go into these programs or can they self select like oh I have an interest in X how does that work.
[00:10:07.700] - Cassie Buckroyd
Well there are a number as leader. There are a couple of different programs and so there is a leadership. Program that people are nominated for and it's a year cohort cohort but they go through and they have these capabilities they're woven into the curriculum along with other things that's really meant to develop the leaders here. But then there is I know that the team is developing classes that can be offered ad hoc that people can go in and sign up for. And it really you know they're creating kind of a blueprint that's help people determine where they fit in based on their level and where they're at in their career and the things that they want to develop. And kind of create that. Blueprint or that path. And so people can just select into different classes.
[00:10:52.430] - Amanda Hammett
That's really really cool. I love this. I love everything that you guys are doing. All right. So we talked a little bit about the financial and the career. Let's talk about the the community pillar because that is. Uber. Uber important to the young employees.
[00:11:10.790] - Cassie Buckroyd
Yeah.
[00:11:12.230] - Amanda Hammett
All the time. So how are you guys really taking that in and helping them do that.
[00:11:18.050] - Cassie Buckroyd
Well I think so I mentioned that we have a corporate responsibility team here and they work on things from sustainability. And employees really care about that. So I think in that. Regard making sure that employees are. Aware and we're telling the stories that that team is working on is one component of that. But then we also have a team that focuses on kind of our relationships with different nonprofits that are working on issues that tie into our brand. So environmental issues are national parks things of that nature.
[00:11:54.410] - Cassie Buckroyd
And so again that that's really important to our workforce. We work with one nonprofit and the name is escaping me right now. But recently that team sent out a survey and employees got to give their voice to which environment environmental issues that nonprofit was going to focus on within the next year. So having a voice and and what issues are being worked on is really important. And then we also have volunteer a volunteer program where employees can use hours and long those hours toward volunteering with a nonprofit of their choice or the issue or you know. What have you of their choice. We have 15 hours a year where employees can can do that.
[00:12:42.930] - Amanda Hammett
How many hours so your did you say.
[00:12:44.990] - Cassie Buckroyd
15.
[00:12:46.110] - Amanda Hammett
All right. I mean that's that's a sizable. Well those are paid days so they can take and do any kind of volunteering that they choose. Careful I love that I love companies that do that and that really put their money where their mouth is really there because a lot of times companies are like oh yeah we want you to be involved we want you to volunteer and give to the community but you guys are really actually enabling that to happen because we do. Such busy lives between work and haul. It's hard to really kind of step away from it all and be able to be supported in that way to do that. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for enabling the wonderful.
[00:13:27.040] - Amanda Hammett
All right. So we've talked a lot about some of the different pillars some of the different programs that you guys have going on. And I'm sure that we could sit here all day and talk about other wellness programs that have in motion and but how are you seeing this affect the younger employees. I mean have I know that you guys are just really starting to get this kicked off but right effect.
[00:13:54.800] - Cassie Buckroyd
Know I think we hear stories and things like that from employees who get emails. But I think you know. Is a feeling I suppose and the relationship that we have with employees that they're feeling supported. So for example with our paid parental leave program we just launched that last November. When we launched that it was done in an employee meeting and employees applauded and danced in their chairs and were excited. And so I mean those those types of things mean a lot to employees. And then.
[00:14:31.660] - Cassie Buckroyd
For me it's important to have relationships with with our employees and so I just I mean I get employees walking up to me and telling me how different programs or initiative or what have you affect them personally. So we don't I don't have a lot of data. I do have some. We do surveys every once in a while but it's really those kind of anecdotal qualitative things that we have right now. And I think you know. That.
[00:14:59.760] - Amanda Hammett
You know I love that. So since you brought up parental leave or parental policies let's dive in and because this is a hot topic in the United States. Unfortunately. And so I'd love to hear what you guys offer from the beginning stages of parenting are you just a parenting through to support parents as their children are growing.
[00:15:26.720] - Cassie Buckroyd
Right. Well so, In addition to at the time that we launched our paid parental leave program which offers time off paid time off to all new parents. So men and women. Those who adopt children or obtain legal guardianship as well as birthing parents. There's that and then we put a resource in place with a new program where employees are supported from the from the time that they're planning to have a family. So this platform supports employees through fertility and things of that nature. We've also put some benefits in place to support employees through that and then pregnancy.
[00:16:14.040] - Cassie Buckroyd
And it ties into it's very personally that ties into our benefit programs. And so this platform knows for that specific employee what health plan they're on and direct them directly to the resources for the benefit program that they've enrolled in. That's really useful during pregnancy so that they can look at things like where do I go to get breast or something like that or where can I go if I'm if I'm having you know postpartum depression where do I go for emotional support and things of that nature. And then there's the new parents and so the platform supports new employees on the return to work and integrating that that new family life with their work life and things of that nature.
[00:16:59.600] - Amanda Hammett
Wow. Well I have a feeling that people are going to hear this upswing in applications to. That is that's wonderful support that so many companies aren't offering but it is a struggle for young millennial families that the two. Dual working parents and Something's Got To Give. Yes it's unfortunate. And you've got to meet your employees where they are. We don't live in an economy where you can just dictate. This is how it is. It's just not the world we live in anymore. So all right I applaud you guys for even thinking about and doing something about that. That's really wonderful stuff. And I'm sure the employees appreciate it tremendously.
[00:17:47.070] - Amanda Hammett
OK. All right. So as we have mentioned we could probably talk all day long about those. But do you feel that. And my question I guess is for someone who is looking to start a brand new program a brand new wellness program. Do you have any use for them that they have. Let's say nothing in place or what advice would you give to them.
[00:18:15.550] - Cassie Buckroyd
I will. I'll just talk about how I started here and I really think that if I were to go back and do it again I would do it exactly the same way. Yeah. And so really there are a number of. Wellness corporate wellness oriented organizations out there like Alcoa hero and they have different checklists and kind of assessments that you can measure your organization again. And so I think kind of conducting that initial needs analysis based on you know you can use the pillars of wellness. From wrath and harder and gallop or you can use you know other pillars of illness but really kind of looking at what is there and what is not there and then prioritizing.
[00:18:58.350] - Cassie Buckroyd
So for example when I did this assessment way back when. I mentioned that we had physical health dialed in but I noticed there were some kind of foundational pieces that were missing. Like a good communication strategy a branding and things like that. And so I really kind of started there with kind of our communications and things like that and then built the programs and things of that nature. And I did because we were so dialed in and we have a healthier workforce than what I've seen in the past. I looked at topics that were a little bit outside of the box.
[00:19:36.850] - Cassie Buckroyd
So I remember I launched in that first year with a mindfulness program and financial wellness and things that I really thought our employees would value and kind of latch on to. And so I think that that needs analysis is critical to understand you know who your employee population is what their needs are what you already have in place and what you can leverage as well as who you can collaborate with within your organization. So partnerships have been really critical for me here at Columbia. You know I mentioned our Corporate Responsibility team learning and development and then even our facilities team has been a really critical partner for me and getting our fitness room you know improved and holding events and getting rooms set up for lunch and learns and things like that. And so I really don't know that I would have been able to get things where they've gone without those partnerships.
[00:20:31.610] - Amanda Hammett
And that's wonderful. I love that you have been able to launch these things and get these cross-functional teams these different departments really on your side. Do you have any advice for someone who is looking to start something like that within their own company and how to approach a different department about about forming a partnership.
[00:20:54.780] - Cassie Buckroyd
Yes I do. Actually I think it's pretty. I think it's really critical to listen and a lot of times folks are very engaged. Their wellness is cool it's something that people want to be a part of and they see the value in it. But other times they may not and they might feel like you know you're just adding to their already huge workload. And so I think going in with a curious mentality and really listening to what they're trying to achieve and then figuring out how a wellness initiative could kind of leverage or augment but they're doing. I just I really think a protein with curiosity and listening is critical.
[00:21:39.030] - Amanda Hammett
I think that that's critical in a lot of things. If we see a lot. OK wonderful. Oh yes. This has been just a wealth of knowledge and I really really do appreciate it.
[00:21:52.740] - Amanda Hammett
I mean you've just thrown so much out there and I you're actually kind of thrown out a gauntlet for other companies that need to take a look at this and say how can we do better for our employees. So thank you for setting that standard. I appreciate it. And I know that your employees are doing so well thank you for being on the show.
[00:22:12.510] - Cassie Buckroyd
You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
[00:22:14.160] - Amanda Hammett
Wonderful. And thank you guys for joining us today. And we will see you in the very next episode of The Next Generation Rockstar podcast.
[00:22:21.630] - Amanda Hammett
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of The Next Generation rock stars where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case don't keep me a secret. Share this episode with the world but really share it with your friends with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now of course I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Cassie Buckroyd: How Holistic Wellness Programs Can Take the Stress Out of Your Employees Lives appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Mentoring is something many leaders and companies say they do. Unfortunately, many mentor programs are inefficient and waste time. Crystal Khalil of Porsche Cars North America shares how she is using mentoring to encourage diversity and inclusion of the next generations of talent.
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Crystal Khalil is the Director of Procurement at Porsche Cars North America. She works with PAG Global Procurement to set and implement global strategies in North America. Define and implement local directives. Responsible for all indirect spend including $100MUSD construction of Porsche's new headquarters in Atlanta, GA, Marketing, PR, IT, HR, Logistics, and Financial Services.
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The Transcript - How Mentoring Changes Early in Career Talent Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
Hi and welcome to this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. I have a pretty special interview for you today. I got to interview Crystal Khalil who is the director of procurement for Porsche North America and everybody loves Porsche. They think they're super cool cars, but I personally happen to think that crystal is pretty amazing. She talks a lot about diversity and inclusion and as well as mentoring and the effects that those things have on the next generation of talent. In fact, I actually reached out to a few of Crystal's mentees and they shared with me some really from the heart words about what her mentorship has meant to them personally and professionally. So tune in and learn tons and tons from Amanda Hammett in Porsche North America.
Amanda Hammett: 01:12
Hi and welcome to this episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars podcast. I have a fantastic guest for you today. Her name is Amanda Hammett and she is with Porsche North America. Crystal, welcome to the show.
Crystal Khalil: 01:25
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Amanda Hammett: 01:28
Well, I am so excited to tell you. I just shared with Crystal right before we hit record that I may have been Google sleuthing her, um, before we actually met in person and it was a total accident that we've met. Crystal, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about the list that you were put on?
Crystal Khalil: 01:52
So I was recently selected as one of the top 25 impact women impacting diversity and diversity plus magazine and that was launched at the weekend conference this year. So I'm really excited about that.
Amanda Hammett: 02:06
Yes. So, Crystal and I met at we bank, which is a phenomenal organization and it was funny because when the list came out, before we banked the conference, I actually printed it out, which I never print things. I printed it out and I circle and I watch it, Crystal because she was local to Atlanta as well as major Dixon from Accenture. And I just so happen was introduced to Crystal. I wasn't actually pursuing you, but I was introduced to you regardless. And I was so excited.
Crystal Khalil: 02:41
It worked out perfect.
Amanda Hammett: 02:45
It really, really was. So Crystal, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you?
Crystal Khalil: 02:52
So I have been in procurement and supply chain for over 30 years. Out of those 30 years I've been with Porsche for about 18 years. I am currently the director of procurement for North America. Um, and that's where we do all of the purchasing activities for all of the North American affiliates and subsidiaries of Porsche here in North America. And that's all of the indirect spends. So it's everything on the operational side. We are the customs in Porter Group for North America though we import the vehicles and then get them out to our franchisee-owned dealers in North America. So all of the backend, the logistics, HR, IT, everything you can imagine to make that happen. My team supports those activities.
Amanda Hammett: 03:43
So just a little bit. I mean, not y'all don't do that much. So Crystal, you know, what I'm really excited to talk to you about today is two things, which are major for next-generation talent, the first being diversity and the second being mentoring. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how you see the world of diversity affecting the next generation of talent, whether it's recruiting or developing them. What is it?
Crystal Khalil: 04:17
I say diversity. I, I'm really excited about all of the diversity and inclusion that's, that's happening now. Because I think that as the, as the world changes and, and we're rapidly growing and the demographics are changing, it's important to have the talent in your organization that looks like your customers and you know, that can help give you a different perspective. So I'm really excited about, you know, the efforts here at portion, all the other companies that I'm seeing. I'm reflecting on it being, being intentional about the inclusion of diverse talent. I have for my entire career been the only African American in the room or the only woman in the room. And still to this day, I find myself being the only, you know a diverse person in meetings and in rooms. And I think it's important for them [inaudible] focus on how to make people feel included in those conversations.
Amanda Hammett: 05:18
I agree with that completely because it is one thing to actually be in the room, but it's a completely different thing to feel included in the conversation. And I think that that's something that really we're doing better on diversity, but it is something that inclusion piece is so, so very important.
Crystal Khalil: 05:37
Exactly. And it, and it's a two-way conversation. So one of the things that I expressed to my mentees is inclusion is a two-way conversation. You know, organizations have to make the effort to include you, but you also have to be open to that conversation and you also have to be transparent and allow yourself to be engaged in that conversation.
Amanda Hammett: 06:01
I really love that. I think that's great advice for both sides of that conversation. That's wonderful. So let me ask you this when you're thinking about recruiting or I know that you don't specifically have that role in recruiting, but you do bring people onto your team. So when you're thinking about your team and the dynamics, how big of a, how big of a conversation is diversity? on the day today?
Crystal Khalil: 06:27
So when we we're recruiting, we want to make sure that we have a diverse group of talent and we also, um, we do panel interviews here. So we make sure that also the people, um, that are helping us with the interview process are a diverse group of people so that the talent can see people that look like them in the room as well. So, and you get a diverse perspective.
Amanda Hammett: 06:50
Yes. That's really fantastic. I love that you're able to actually pull in that diverse diversity on the panel because it is so very important, especially for young talent, for them to see someone that they can see themselves in up there. So that's I love that you think that through because so many people would miss that one integral piece. So I love it. I love it. All right. You, you mentioned this just a second ago, but I'd like to circle back to it. You mentioned to you, your mentees. So tell us a little bit about how you see the world of mentoring before we actually deep dive into your mentees for a second.
Crystal Khalil: 07:34
So as I've grown up the corporate ladder and open doors that were perceived to have been close to me or you know, keep through glass ceilings I've always felt that as I opened the door, it's my responsibility to hold that door open and not close it behind me. So I'm very intentional about when I learn something new, sharing it and, and helping others that are coming behind me to, to navigate, but do a lot of mentoring and sponsoring to, to help our young talent and our diverse talent. Find your way in the organization. Just sharing with them. I strive to be the leader that I always want it. And I know that you know, for many years I didn't see anybody above me that looked like me. So it's very important for me to use this platform to help young people coming up in the ranks and help them to understand what it takes to get to the next level.
Amanda Hammett: 08:38
I love that so much. I really, that really touches me. Um, so thank you for doing that on their behalf. So I really want to emphasize for those in the audience who may not know exactly what mentoring is, but would you also share with them like you, how do you see the difference between mentoring and sponsorship?
Crystal Khalil: 09:03
Absolutely. Good question. So for me, mentoring is showing you the way you know, showing you how the gangs are played. Because whether you know it or not, there's always a game being played, right? You're playing or you're being played. So showing them how the game is played and how to navigate the corporate structure is mentoring. Sponsoring is when someone speaks for you when you're not in the room. Monstering is when, when I can say, have you considered this person for this opportunity? Or when you get the tap on the shoulder for an opportunity. So I think you need a sponsor for every new level. Every new level requires a sponsor.
Amanda Hammett: 09:47
Now I would assume, and I may be very wrong and please, please correct, but I would assume that you've probably had some pretty great mentors as well as sponsors throughout your career.
Crystal Khalil: 09:58
Absolutely. I wouldn't be here without the great mentors and sponsors that have helped me along the way. And it has it's cause it's been a challenge, you know, you know, growing myself, learning what is required to get to the next level. Learning the difference between being an individual contributor, a manager, and a leader, you know, and in that growth process, what the sponsors along my way to have challenged me or that have spoken up for me. My current CFO, I'll forever be grateful for him because sponsors a lot of times have to put their own credibility on the line to bring you to the next level. And so I'm so very appreciative of those people in my career and in my life that have stood in the gap for me and given me a hand up.
Amanda Hammett: 10:50
I love it. That's wonderful. And I just want to note something really quickly here. We were originally scheduled to talk, was it last week or the week before, and you were actually asked by your CFO to go represent him at a meeting. And I think that that speaks for you.
Crystal Khalil: 11:07
Yeah, no, I'm so appreciative of those opportunities and of the trust, you know that he has in me.
Amanda Hammett: 11:14
Absolutely. And, and I mean, you sent me the sweetest note like, I'm so sorry. Can we reschedule it? And I was like, girl, please. Absolutely. So you're currently doing a lot of mentoring. I actually at Webank had the opportunity to meet a few of your mentees and they were raving about you. I mean, just raving about you. But I actually went to a few of your current mentees and have them write something for me and I'm not gonna read everything that they said because we'd be here for the rest of the day. Um, but they had a lot to say. And I think that this is really something that's important for everyone to see is that you are pouring into them and they are so incredibly grateful and appreciative and they're sucking it up like sponges and really using it to better their lives.
Amanda Hammett: 12:12
But I'd really just like to read it, just a couple of little comments that I highlighted and pulled out. This is from a young man who's in his late twenties to early thirties, and he says that you have been instrumental in my development as a leader and a team player at Porsche. The lessons you have taught him have carried on past the workplace and have allowed me to be a better husband, friend, and citizen. I mean, come on. That's you. Your care, your enthusiasm, and charismatic nature have made her an important asset to our company. And to my personal network. Wow. I mean I'm like, I'm tearing up. Another, another woman who's in her late thirties, she said, this is no joke. My experience with Crystal has been life-changing. Like she really doesn't need to write anything else, but she does you have some raving fans here.
Amanda Hammett: 13:20
She said working with you has been the best thing that I could've done both for my professional and personal life. She said when she was working with you to Dah, Dah, Dah, I received one of the largest salary increases that I have ever received.
Crystal Khalil: 13:39
Wow.
Amanda Hammett: 13:40
Life-changing. That's life-changing. And she said crystal has been a Godson and it definitely changes the blueprint for women here at Porsche North America. And we celebrate her daily.
Crystal Khalil: 13:51
Oh, come on.
Amanda Hammett: 13:55
I mean like, this is crazy. I mean, crazy good. One last one. This is a woman in her fifties and she says a lot. But one of the things that really stood out was that crystal has pushed me to come out of my comfort zone and what I consider normal. And she's not allowed me to settle for less than. And my professional and personal journey have been easier because of her brilliance, patience and consistent encouragement.
Crystal Khalil: 14:27
Wow. That's overwhelming.
Amanda Hammett: 14:30
Yes. And when you read all of it in, in their entirety, it really will be. But what this says to me is that you care about them and it goes far beyond just a checklist. You care about them and they feel it. And I think that it's obviously changed their lives for the better.
Crystal Khalil: 14:50
That makes me proud and it makes me happy.
Amanda Hammett: 14:54
Yeah. I'm absolute. I mean, and that really is the power of mentoring. That is the kind of difference that a good mentor makes.
Crystal Khalil: 15:04
Yes, yes. And I, and I do, I care deeply about them. I want to see them grow professionally but also like in there, in their personal lives. Because a lot of the lessons that I teach them can be applied to other areas of your life as well. And it's about just being a good person, just doing the right thing every day, being a good person, doing your best. And I love when we have our mentee sessions and I get that Aha moment from them where it's like, and I can tell that they're really processing it. And then they come back and they tell me, Oh, I had this thought and I applied it this way and this is what happened. It just, it makes my heart overjoyed because ultimately, you know, what I always tell them is I want to see you be successful, whether it's here at Porsche or anywhere else in your life. I want you to be happy. I want you to be successful. I want you to grow because growing people grow companies, you know, if you're happy and you're, and you're doing what you love, you will, you will grow the organization, whether it's Porsche somewhere else or you're even your own company. I want them to see happy and successful no matter what it is they decided to do in life.
Amanda Hammett: 16:17
Well, they have gotten that message loud and clear from you. But for the audience here, I think that there's a lot of, I feel like misinformation out there about mentoring, about how to structure it. And there are a thousand different ways you could structure it, but could you walk the audience through how you A pick out mentees and B, how do you structure that time with them?
Crystal Khalil: 16:46
So there's a couple of different ways. So I'm a John Maxwell certified trainer, so I use a lot of dime Maxwell's techniques and my mentoring. And then just everyday life, you know, and, and the lessons that I've learned in the last 30 years do it, you know, doing what I do in procurement and supply chain and just throughout my life. But the mentees tend to select me and it's, and I can't turn anybody down. So I'm like right now I have 32 active mentees here at the organization.
Amanda Hammett: 17:19
When did you work? I mean, we'll do you have time?
Crystal Khalil: 17:23
Everybody else goes home, Huh? What I do, I have 32 and I do, um, I meet with them in groups of 10 to attend to 12. And we have regular scheduled sessions for one hour where we talk about a particular topic. And it's just, it's based on trust, truth, and transparency. And my model is excellence and but my brand will be service excellence and humility. So I, you know, it's, it's focused around service excellence and humility in your everyday life. And so we take a little bite-size chunk of one of those three and we meet for an hour and it's just, I'm transparent with them. I tell them the struggles I've had in my career and how I overcame and, and I allow them to be truthful and what, what, what we say in the room stays in the room. And I'd give them my best advice, but even better, they laugh from one another.
Crystal Khalil: 18:24
So what when it, when I know the class is most successful is when I talk the least amount and they talk the most and they are answering questions for each other and they're having healthy debate and they're collaborating and they've started to become, they, it's, there's like a, a network of them within your organization where they, it's a positive support group. So you know, if they can't, if they can't get me in, they have a pressing issue, they know that they can go to one of my other mentees and they're all on the same page and they're all encouraging and positive and there's nobody that's going to sit there and soak with you. They're going to tell you to get up and do what you need to do and you know they're going to give you positive reinforcement and encouragement to do whatever it is that needs to be done. So I'm really proud of that when I see them together and I see them networking. And the other thing is they come from all areas of the ordinance organization. If some of them come from some of our affiliates and subsidiaries, most of them are very different departments. So it's created a network within. So, you know, whereas they used to be hard workers sitting at their desk just doing their job. Now they're meeting people from other areas of the department and it's helping them to understand where they fit in into the big picture.
Amanda Hammett: 19:40
Oh, that's a beautiful side benefit that I feel like most people probably didn't see coming. I didn't see that coming.
Crystal Khalil: 19:50
Exactly.
Amanda Hammett: 19:51
That's beautiful. I love it. I love it. So I mean if you were to advise a young employee right now, um, outside of, of, of your company that is looking for a mentor, someone that can really give them this kind of guidance, what advice would you give them?
Crystal Khalil: 20:11
Look for people that you admire in, in, um, in leadership and you know, as be gracious enough to ask people to sit down and if you can, if you can have a coffee with them, a 30-minute coffee or something, not a lot of time. And be curious about, you know, how did they get where they are today and, and learn more about them. I've never reached out to someone and asked them could I sit and talk with them and been turned down because people like to talk about themselves. Right? So if you just wanna hey, I just love to, you know, learn more about you and how, how you achieved what you've achieved in your career. And you know, if we can just sit down for a 30-minute coffee and I won't take a lot of your time, but I just wanted to learn about you, people will generally say yes. I've never had anybody tying me down for that. And if you do that with a couple of people, sooner or later you'll start to build connections with people that can become your mentors.
Amanda Hammett: 21:08
Absolutely. I love it. So, um, do you generally think it's a better idea for people to have a mentor inside their company or outside or both? Or what is your advice on that?
Crystal Khalil: 21:22
I would say you should have as many mentors as you can. It's great to have one in the organization because they will help you to understand how to navigate your corporate culture in your organizations, culture, but then also externally because you want to build that network outside of your organization as well. Your network should be three 60, so you'll find people in your church, you'll find people in industry associations, you know, that, that can help you to navigate to the next level. So I would say is, you know, as many mentors as you can find that are willing to invest in, you, don't turn anybody down.
Amanda Hammett: 22:04
I love it so much. So great. Crystal. So you know, you have said so many great things about the world of diversity and inclusion, the world of mentoring. And you know, for me it's all about the young employees. So next generation of talent, whether it's millennials, whether it's Gen z, but what would you say to a young employee who is going to be a leader for the very first time? What advice would you give them?
Crystal Khalil: 22:35
The first thing I would say to them, it is known the difference between a manager and a leader. So more managers maintain systems and processes, right? Leaders are strategic and they look to take the organization to new levels. They're problem solvers. To understand which one do you want to be? You want to be a manager or leader. Leaders are more valuable to the organization. So focus on your leadership skills, your people skills, invest in yourself and never stop learning. You know, really take the time to enhance your knowledge of people skills. Take, you know, if there's training offered by your organization, take full advantage of that. But if it's not, go outside of your organization and get what you need to be the best leader possible.
Amanda Hammett: 23:27
I really don't have anything to add and we have quickly come up to the end of our time. So crystal, I'd like to thank you so much for being on the Next Generation Rockstars podcast, wealth of knowledge, wealth of knowledge. So again, thank you so much.
Crystal Khalil: 23:43
Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: 23:44
Thanks so much. Joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Crystal Khalil: How Mentoring Changes Early in Career Talent appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Developing early career talent is a struggle for most companies. Yet, some leaders, like Tonia Hau, seem to be able to do it with incredible ease. Learn from Tonia as she explains for a simple method for developing early-career employees.
Tonia Carty Hoy is the Marketing Communications Account Director at Communiqué for Chick-fil-A, Inc. She has an amazing experience leading marketing programs and projects in Restaurant communications, project management, and vendor management.
Share the LOVE and TWEET about this episode. *Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to Next Generation Rockstars.*
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The Transcript - Leading Early in Career Talent Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent, well you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
All right, so today's episode of the Next Generation Rockstars podcast has a very special interview. This is actually the leader of two of our gas from season one, two of our rock stars from season one. So today I interviewed Tonia Hau who is an account director at Communique-USA here in the Atlanta, Georgia area. And she talks about how wonderful it can be to be a leader of early in career talent. So everybody on her team has less than five years of business experience, less than five years, and she really pours into them and really develops them and turns them into some amazing employees that will go on to have phenomenal careers. So I hope that you get out your pen, your paper or you take lots of mental notes if you're listening to this while you drive into work because Tonia Hau is going to break it down for you on how to be a phenomenal, authentic and transparent leader for that early in career talent.
Amanda Hammett: 01:16
Hey there and welcome to this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. We have a really fantastic episode with you today. We have Tonia Hau who is with Communique-USA where she is an account director. Welcome to the show Tonia.
Tonia Hau: 01:30
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Amanda Hammett: 01:32
No worries. So I knew I had to talk to Tonia last season. So season one, I interviewed two of her direct reports in the latter part of the season. So if you haven't checked it out, definitely go back, check out that episode. But they raved about their leader, their manager who happens to be Tonia. So Tonia, tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
Tonia Hau: 01:58
Hi, yes, as you mentioned, I'm the account director at Communique-USA. I report to the vice president of client services, Stephanie Thompson, who is a fabulous leader. And models leadership well for me. Um, and she reports to Shawnee Godwin, our CEO, and president. And it's just, I've worked there for five years. It's a wonderful organization to work for. They focus a lot on work-life balance which makes my job a lot easier and more fulfilling. And I have two teenagers. I have one boy in college, she's getting ready to start his sophomore year and I have a daughter who is starting her senior year of high school, very recently engaged and going to be married. So yes.
Amanda Hammett: 02:53
What's going on in your personal life there? That's amazing. That is fantastic. So I just have a lot of questions for you honestly, because I think that when people get a leadership role for them whether it's the first time or it's their first time really managing, you know, early in career, those right out of college employees, they want to pull their hair out, they don't get it. And it really is a test of a lot of things. But empathy, listening, development leadership in general. So really, can you tell the audience a little bit about what is your specific or general ideas around leadership around developing talent? How do you see the world?
Tonia Hau: 03:43
Okay. I mean I was a little bit, not embarrassed, but just take him back that my direct reports have great things to say because it is always hard to know how you're being perceived by your direct report. And it was, they were incredibly generous and kind with their words and it was very humbling and I feel very honored. Honestly. I believe that leadership is not about something that you do, but I believe it's about really who someone is and how they just see the world and how they interact with people. So for me, I don't think it's anything that I'm doing. It's more of just my personality, my character and what I value and how that comes out in my leadership skills. I believe that very important, and being authentic and transparent, I believe you should highlight successes as well as failures.
Tonia Hau: 04:42
And I think the biggest thing that I value that I've valued in leaders above me and I've tried to make the best of leaders that I have had, such as Stephanie, who's a phenomenal leader and I'm trusting over suspicion I think is absolutely crucial. Giving people the benefit of the doubt, allowing people to make mistakes and giving them a safe place to make mistakes. I think that creates a very innovative culture that can try new things and learn from your mistakes. I think that's the only way to grow and be innovative. And so I very much know that my employees know that they can come to me and share with me anything that's going on and just try to be completely open and transparent with them. And I guess the only other thing I think that's really important is just surrounding myself with complementary talent.
Tonia Hau: 05:44
I look to build teams that complement each other with their strengths and their weaknesses. I think it's been very important for me. When I was interviewing my direct report that you interviewed, both of them have strong skillsets in areas that I'm extremely weekend and so I'm embarrassed in the leap does say that because I think that's what builds strong teams. They have, I am more of a big-picture strategic thinker when they have attention to detail like nobody you've ever seen. And so that actually was one of the things I was looking for and building my team because I know that it's essential to have a well-rounded team.
Amanda Hammett: 06:29
Oh, that is so interesting that you say that. But also I'd like to commend you on being incredibly self-aware. I think that that is something that can be missing the time at all levels, at all levels. It does not just say if it's across the board. So I commend you on that. That's really fantastic and I think that it's helped you build an incredible team. So that's great. Now let me get, let me ask you, and not to be rude, how long have you been in the working world, Tonia?
Tonia Hau: 07:04
I have been in the workforce for over 20 years. I took a little bit of time off to be at home with my kids when they were younger. And so then I had to get reestablished back, um, into the work environment. But overall over 20, probably about 25 years.
Amanda Hammett: 07:24
Okay. Perfect. All right. So I would imagine that in that time you have seen a young talent coming to the workforce in different waves. What have you noticed as the biggest influence millennials and Gen z's are bringing into the workforce or have brought into the workforce?
Tonia Hau: 07:44
Well, absolutely. Hands down. I can tell you this, just from having teenagers myself, I know for a fact they could run this house on their knowledge of technology with or without any assistance. So it's definitely the rise in technology being tech-savvy. And I really see how that's influenced our company with the offerings that they bring. Just, you know, assessing that are our software and our offerings and providing suggestions and improvements has been really helpful.
Amanda Hammett: 08:19
That's awesome. So have you, besides the tech, you know, have there been any shifts in, well you did mention the offerings, but you know what has really been the surprise that has come with these shifts? Has it been a positive surprise or negative, anything like that?
Tonia Hau: 08:37
No, I would, I mean, that's just my personality. I always try to look for the positive and I try to always look for learning opportunities. So I definitely think it's been helpful that our leader has provided the work-life balance. I think one thing that's very important to millennials is that their outside passions fuel them. And so I think the work-life balance that we provide is just been an easy actually beneficial for them.
Amanda Hammett: 09:07
Absolutely. And I'd like to say, I mean, just, I know Shawnee personally, I have met Stephanie, I don't even know how many times and hung out with her and they really, they don't just say it, they actually practice that every single day. And I love the rule that you guys have in place as far as answering client emails. What is it like after five or six o'clock? Don't expect a response. And I mean, how many other companies do that?
Amanda Hammett: 09:36
Right? Oh, go ahead.
Tonia Hau: 09:42
Oh, I was just going to say we're very fortunate and well handpicking the clients that work along well with that culture and that embrace that culture and appreciate it. I know a lot of our clients, um, if they're checking emails after or doing work after business hours, that it's predominantly to just get, you know, their inbox cleared out and just so they're not holding things up because they're in meetings all day. So typically they don't expect a response at that time. They're just trying to get things off of their plate. So it's been great.
Amanda Hammett: 10:17
That's awesome. So when you're looking at young talent in particular because you do lead a younger team, you know, what are some of the things that you're looking for? What are some of those foundational pieces that you want someone to come in? They may not have a lot of experience, but what is it that really says, okay, this person's got potential. This person can be a rock star.
Tonia Hau: 10:44
Absolutely. I think, um, you know, at that level we don't expect anyone to know everything or to have all the answers I think, which is hard for anyone, not just millennials. When you go come into a new role and instantly people are trying to prove themselves and show their value that you made the right choice in hiring them, which can really be, I try to sit them down immediately like day one and say, we don't expect you to know everything. We don't expect you to prove yourself or show your value. What you are here to do at this moment is to learn and observe. And so we, I think someone that has rockstar potential that we see a lot is someone who asks a lot of questions, who doesn't pretend to know at all and who is just a great observer, not trying to add value that just, we very much encourage them to observe more in the beginning. And to be proactive. They ask for more work when you're slow to ask for what you need if you don't have the resources that you need to do your job and just not to be afraid to ask a lot of questions. But one thing that is an absolute bonus for sure, it's a positive, encouraging spirit. Someone who just is very enthusiastic who is happy to be there, willing to be there and just willing to help out wherever they can and be a team player.
Amanda Hammett: 12:19
Okay. I love all that and I think it's something [inaudible] okay. That you know, you see a lot of in, in other companies that it's like, oh, it's all about the resume. What's on the resume, what's on the resume? And at this point, they don't have a lot on their resume or at least not a lot that's really applicable. And it's really about getting those specific characteristics as specific traits that are going to translate well into your environment. And it sounds like, you know, you guys are looking for that inquisitive spirit, but also just that like, Hey, I'm going to be proactive. I'm going to go after things, whether it's, you know, in this specific area that is in my job or willing to, you know, spread myself out and help out where needed those are important things. Now, how do you spot that on a resume though?
Tonia Hau: 13:13
I mean, it's tough. I mean, a resume I think is for looking at the skillset and it's in the interview process where you assess the soft skills that are incredibly important. And so that's why it's important to have both really.
Amanda Hammett: 13:27
I agree with that. I do agree with that. So we've already kind of touched on this and maybe you have some other experiences outside of communique. But have you ever felt the pressure from higher-ups at any point in your career to focus more on numbers and metrics and KPIs and less on real people?
Tonia Hau: 13:51
I think that's a common pressure with every business. I don't think anyone, I mean every business focuses on profitability and growth. I think that's important. I mean, that's a common pressure, but again, we're just, I think I'm very fortunate to work a Communique that values people. And the work-life balance, I think as Shawnee mentions her joy economics, it's about making work as enjoyable and happy to go to as it is at home and your personal life. And it's a balancing act, but at get, at the end of the day, we're not, we don't want to sacrifice people or values for money or for profitability. I mean, it's equally important, but I think as a leader, it's just natural to me in the disc assessment of dominant influencers, steadiness and conscientious. I'm an influencer. So it just comes naturally to me to place emphasis on influencing others, openness, and relationships over tasks and profitability. So I do get, I have to get reined in every now and then on, on that. But for me, people always come first.
Amanda Hammett: 15:13
I think that's really, I think that's important. I think that unfortunately, sometimes we do tend to focus too much on the numbers and not enough on the people who drive those numbers. But I understand there's, there's a balance. it's delicate. Right? All right. So I, there was something that you said earlier that I really wanted to, to circle back to if you don't mind. You said trusting over suspicion and giving people a safe, a place to make mistakes. And I think that that's really beautiful and I think that it can be very scary for some leaders to do that. Because it's so, you know, making a mistake. In a lot of instances, people automatically assume that that's a terrible thing. It's a bad idea. I don't, that would reflect badly on me as a leader, you know? What do you have to say about that? What do you, what are your thoughts?
Tonia Hau: 16:09
Well, again it's about the types of mistakes obviously. Um, we prefer smaller mistakes over the larger, more costly mistake. Regardless, I mean, we, none of us are perfect. Everyone is going to make mistakes, especially when you're new in your career and to have an environment that is open to that, that you can come to immediately and say, Hey, I messed this up. I take full ownership. What do I need to do to fix it? In the end, is going to be more beneficial because the sooner I can get in and provide leadership and try to help navigate the process thereafter, the fewer mistakes and the less costly it is in the end. It's the people that work in the environment. And I know because I've worked in that environment and especially when I was younger, I'm trying to cover it up because you're so afraid of your boss finding out or someone finding out and you spend so much time and effort trying to fix it, that sometimes you just make it worse and it just goes down a path that it's almost to the point that you have no choice but a phone up to it. And I just, I think the sooner they feel safer to come to me, the better it is for everyone.
Amanda Hammett: 17:33
So how do you actually help them feel safe in that environment? That they can come to you? I mean, it's one thing to tell people, oh, it's okay to make a mistake, but I think that we've all been in situations before where we've been told sure can make mistakes. Nobody's perfect. Right? But the reality is not, doesn't always match up with that. So how do you make sure that you're direct reports actually feel that, hey, Tonia has got my back no matter what? How do you, how do you do that?
Tonia Hau: 18:05
I mean, I think it's by being authentic and vulnerable with them. I mean I will constantly when sharing examples of mistakes that I've made, whether it's in the past or current, I'm sharing with them, hey, you're not the only one. I've done this. Other people who've done this and just being very transparent about assuring them that they're not the only one that's ever made it, it's not the end of the world.
Amanda Hammett: 18:33
I think that that's really important that you do that. Um, that is the, I see the number one thing that young employees don't see is, you know, bosses that take responsibility or ownership of their own mistakes because then if they, if that is the example that you set one time you're done, you are done with that team because they all decided, okay, I've got to hide my mistakes. I've got to like run from it or whatever. And that's just you're setting yourself out to make it, you know, for a disaster. So I love that you do that.
Amanda Hammett: 19:10
That's really tough. Thank You. Plus I think as a leader it's important for them to know that. I mean, I take responsibility for the team, so I will be the one to step up and take it the responsibility for any mistakes and let them know that that's on me. It's not on necessarily on them every time that they can, you know, share that with me. But I will take the full responsibility for the team and for the mistake if the team isn't on me. So I think for taking the, not really the broad, but just taking the ownership of that and then providing them action steps. Of how to improve, what to do next time, how to make sure that this doesn't happen again. What do we learn from this is incredibly important because to just tell someone they made a mistake, they can just sit and feel bad about themselves, but actually to give them action steps gives them ownership and power and show it shows them to embrace the learning opportunity.
Amanda Hammett: 20:12
I love that because it's, yes, you see a lot of times people and companies talk about learning opportunities, but actually, you know, showcasing that and highlighting it in a positive light versus you're going to get fired light in a world of.
Tonia Hau: 20:30
I mean, and there are mistakes that I, yeah, I can't help or take ownership of. And there have been those opportunities, unfortunately, that I have had to let people go. And that is very unfortunate and it's a very tough, difficult thing for any of us. Of course, no matter how many times you do it, it's still tough.
Amanda Hammett: 20:50
Oh, of course. So let's, let's switch gears a little bit more. Let's, let's get a little away from the [inaudible] failure and mistakes world. Talk a little bit more about educating and developing your people. I mean a lot of your teamwork. Let's talk a little bit first about your team right now. Is it all fresh out of college or what do we look like?
Tonia Hau: 21:15
Right. I think we're very well balanced, but we do have a lot of millennials and early in their career, I wouldn't say fresh out of college, but I would say in the first five years of their career. Yes.
Amanda Hammett: 21:30
I mean, I listen, I think those first five years are a critical mass. Like that is like the toughest, special time. And so I'm really pleased that they have a great leader in you because I think that sets up the rest of their career. So, all right. So let's talk about educating and developing that early in career. Do you know what, what do you see as the benefit first of all, like overall to actually spending that time or those resources developing talent?
Tonia Hau: 22:01
I think it's very crucial to our business. I mean, obviously, sort of cliche to say, but it's the, I mean, the feature is in the future is in their hands. Our future is in their hands. So it's important to develop them. And I start off all of our, one on one meetings by saying, look, I know that it's not likely that you're going to stay with this company for the rest of your life. But I do want to make this a very valuable time for you to learn and grow and I want you to go into your next position, whatever that might be with whatever company that might be saying, Aye. You know, I gained a ton of knowledge and great and honed and on my strengths and weaknesses and was able to use that in my next position. I mean, I think so.
Tonia Hau: 22:57
I said, I tried to take our one-on-ones as a time to less develop you as a person and what can we do to grow you in your career where you are and try to get them to think about their strengths, to think about their weaknesses and then provide action items and action steps to develop them. I think if we don't do that, we're gonna lose great talent. That has a lot of opportunities. I think when you have, you know, any turnover, you risk losing client relationships and losing client business and I mean, and I think it keeps us on our toes as an organization to fine-tune our skills and to grow in our business and grow our opportunities.
Amanda Hammett: 23:45
All right. I couldn't agree with any of that more. Basically. I do have one just quick clarifying question. Uh, how often do you do your one on ones with your team?
Tonia Hau: 23:55
I do them biweekly. Okay. and I mean it doesn't always happen based on, you know, but I at least try to touch base with them once a month.
Amanda Hammett: 24:03
Okay. And then are those usually what, how long?
Tonia Hau: 24:07
30 minutes. 30 such space. Right. And then, you know, and then we'll provide, like, you know, a yearly review, which is a little bit more in-depth than we're meeting.
Amanda Hammett: 24:19
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. But it seems like you cover a fair amount of ground in those 30-minute meetings, which, you know, 30 minutes out of your, you know, every week or every month. Not that much time, but you also are very hands-on with them should they need it. But it seems like you have a very open door, I guess, policy, where they could come to you and them, feel comfortable coming to you even outside of that 30 minutes.
Tonia Hau: 24:50
Yes, absolutely. They texted me all the time.
Amanda Hammett: 24:55
So I'd also like to highlight one thing that you said in that last statement. And it's more at this talks more to the financial ramifications of developing your team or maybe not developing your team, but you actually mentioned the potential for when there's turnover, actually potentially also losing clients. I think that's huge and I don't think that people make that connection enough. So, okay. I'd like to, let's see, are there any other ways that you see how this financially benefits you guys in developing your team? Or is it mainly because you guys are pretty customer-facing? Is it mainly just that piece? Okay.
Tonia Hau: 25:40
I mean, I'm sure there are others. I just that's a big bulk of what we do is I'm nervous and account management. So that is the number one thing that comes to mind. I mean again, not developing talent. Ah, woodwork also, I mean lots of mistakes cost money, it costs clients money. So we try to be very hands-on and provide great, you know, development and mentorship to them to avoid as many client mistakes cause those can come back to bite us as well.
Amanda Hammett: 26:18
Oh goodness. Yes. And I mean your entire team is just client service. I mean that is all you guys do. So that would be, I think the biggest, the biggest piece of that. But I mean obviously you want to build up those skills in case, you know, you eventually have somebody move up into a different room, part of the company or you know, whatever you want them to have built those skills under you, which it sounds they're doing.
Tonia Hau: 26:44
Oh, absolutely. And there's the rare instance. I mean, but it does happen where we've had clients that just fell in love with our talent and our employees and have hired them on. And so then someone that was working for us is now our client. So it's great to have that positive rapport in that relationship already established.
Amanda Hammett: 27:11
That is great. That is great to have. I mean that's, of course, you hate to see them go, but at the same time, you know, you want them to have great careers and it's a logical next step. This is the logical next step.
Tonia Hau: 27:23
Absolutely.
Amanda Hammett: 27:24
So wonderful. All right, so let's, let's circle back a little bit and take a look at something from a different perspective. Tonia, what would advice would you give, I know that you have a son currently in college or, or maybe some of his friends, so let's talk to that to them specifically. What would you tell them to look for in their first boss or their first company? What would be the most important things for them to think about?
Tonia Hau: 27:55
I think they need to focus on, which I think really comes naturally to millennials anyway, is just development and growth opportunities. It's very important in your first career too. Just learn as much as you can and observe as much as you can. And so I think for them to look for those opportunities in companies that invest in their people and invest in that long term growth strategy. They companies that provide great leadership, um, look for ways to build on that. I think for them to identify their strengths and passions. And just again, it's kind of like what we're looking for in employees they should be looking for in companies and leadership or just, you know, positive and enthusiastic people that are happy to be there, that are very knowledgeable that they can learn a lot from.
Amanda Hammett: 28:55
Awesome. All right, so the last question and then I'm going to let you go. What, do you have a favorite leadership book?
Tonia Hau: 29:04
Oh, absolutely. I have two actually that I mean there's a lot that I've read, but too, I have, I'm courageous leadership by bill Hybels is one of my absolute favorites. He talks a lot about vision, creating fuel for leaders, um, and passion for followers. And so I think it's incredibly important for leaders to cast vision and cast it often and frequently. And the other is a next-generation leader by Andy Ali is my other favorite that he talks about the five cs mark and shape women and men for the future, which is courage, clarity, competence, coachability, and character.
Amanda Hammett: 29:58
[inaudible]. Yup, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, fantastic. Well, Tonia, it has been a real pleasure having you on the show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences being that in the trenches like early in career leader. I think this is going to be some great takeaways for the entire audience.
Tonia Hau: 30:18
Oh, thank you so much and thank you so much for having me. It's been a true honor. I appreciate it.
Amanda Hammett: 30:22
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rockstars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Tonia Hau: Leading Early in Career Talent appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Have you ever wondered why some companies can't seem to keep employees while other companies hire employees and then they stick around for years? According to Dee Ann Turner, former head of HR for Chick-Fil-A, it all comes down to selecting talent versus hiring people.
Dee Ann Turner is a Communicator, Consultant, and Coach. She began Dee Ann Turner, LLC after serving 33 years at Chick-fil-A, Inc. An early architect for Chick-fil-A's well-known culture and talent systems, she was Chick-fil-A's first female officer. Most recently, she was Vice President, Sustainability, launching and leading Chick-fil-A's first sustainability strategy. Selected as Chick-fil-A's first female officer, she previously served as the Vice President, Talent/Human Resources, a role she held for nearly 20 years.
Her first book, It’s My Pleasure: The Impact of Extraordinary Talent and a Compelling Culture, reveals the lessons she learned and taught during her long tenure at Chick-fil-A as the company grew from $175M to $10B in revenue.
More info about her: https://www.deeannturner.com/
Share the LOVE and TWEET about this episode. *Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to Next Generation Rockstars.*
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The Transcript - Selecting Talent Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
Hey, good morning and welcome to the next generation rock stars podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hammett, and we have a phenomenal leader for you today. Her name is Dee Ann Turner and Dee Ann used to be with the one and only Chick-Fil-A. Dee Ann, welcome to the show.
Dee Ann Turner: 00:31
Thank you so much. It's really my pleasure to be here, Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: 00:34
Wonderful. Like we have a lot to talk about because of Dee Ann well, I'll actually, why don't you go in and tell us a little bit about you.
Dee Ann Turner: 00:43
Sure. Well, it's quite a story. I did spend 33 years at chip full lie in the majority of that time. My responsibility was to lead talent and human resources and then later social responsibility. And I retired last year. I'd written my first book, it's my pleasure in 2015 and had the opportunity to just start speaking and robbing, consulting and coaching. And so I speak about 50 times a year globally. And I Baker publishing picked up, it's my pleasure and asked me to add content to it. Then we redid the work and it will come out on September the third Az bet on talent. How to create a remarkable culture and win the hearts of customers.
Amanda Hammett: 01:29
Perfect. Perfect. Well, you know, for those from my audience that is not familiar with Chick-Fil-A as a consumer, I will say this Chick-Fil-A is known not only for, you know, fast food, wonderful chicken, but they're known for their service. That is why for people like myself, that's why you go to Chick-Fil-A is because you know the service that's going to be good. You know, the food's going to be good, but it's the service that sets it apart. And I would imagine that you might've had a hand in that being over HR and talent for so long.
Dee Ann Turner: 02:04
I'd like to take credit for that. But there are actually a native so many people and number one is actually the Chick-Fil-A life franchisees themselves. See Chick-Fil-A is now, Oh, I guess about 2,500 franchisees and 10 and a half-billion dollars in sales. When I first went to Chick-Fil-A, I believe that we were at about 175 million in sales with 150 restaurants. But those franchises are totally responsible for selecting their own talent and training them and developing them. And so I think the secret sauce, if you will, of Chick-Fil-A is in the selection of that Franchisee. And that was one of the things I really did. In fact, it was my favorite job at Chick-Fil-A was selecting those franchisees. Now there are about 50,000 people who required each year for 120 opportunities to be a Chick-Fil-A grand chassis. So actually people say it's easier to get into Harvard than it is to become a Chick-Fil-A for the like franchisee.
Amanda Hammett: 03:07
Wow. I had no idea. I mean, I knew it was difficult. I actually know a few franchisees and that the process that they put you through is incredible. But I would like for you to say that stat again. What was that again?
Dee Ann Turner: 03:21
It's about 50,000 inquiries each year of people who would like to become a Chick-Fil-A like franchisees for only about 120 opportunities. And let me take it a little further. Two-thirds of the people who are selected actually come from somewhere within the organization. Most of them have been a Chick-Fil-A team member at some point. So now we're talking only about 35 or 40 that are even available to those apps.
Amanda Hammett: 03:50
That is insane. That is, those are some crazy numbers. So you, you actually just said a few minutes ago that this secret sauce to Chick-Fil-A was really the selection of those franchisees. So I, you know, that's something that we haven't really talked about on this show. Because usually, it's, it's specific to, you know, in house corporate, you know, hires, but this is a little different. So I mean, what makes it so different? What makes it so difficult, but what makes it so special?
Dee Ann Turner: 04:22
Well as I, you know, and of course this was my role a few years back, so I'm, you know, I want to be, I want to be sensitive to the fact that, you know, things maybe even a little different right now, but as it was when I had that role, um, you know, we look for three things when our candidates, and this really came from Truett Cathy, the founder, the first one is character. And he always said character first. And when we talk about character, we're talking about an individual whose values and purpose and mission-aligned with the organization. It doesn't, it doesn't mean it matches perfectly. It just means that they understand what those characteristics are and they're comfortable with that. So, along with the chick-fil-a purpose met mission and values would be one part of the Franchisee selection. And the second part is competency.
Dee Ann Turner: 05:10
And you know, the interesting thing that changed so much over the time I told you that we're not started doing that work. We had 175 million in sales and those were all mall restaurants. You see 86 Chick-Fil-A started opening free-standing locations will over time the volumes of those restaurants have become very complex. And by the way, about 500 of those phones, Chelsea's operating with two restaurants and a dozen or so operate three. So we're talking about, you know, very large, small businesses that these frames, same with these franchise needs or are running. So competency of what was required in 1985 to run a mall restaurant versus what's required in 2019 to run a freestanding restaurant with the kind of average sales that chick like produces. And then, and then to look at people and say, you know what, in a few years, we want them to have the capacity, the competency to actually operate more than one restaurant.
Dee Ann Turner: 06:08
So when we select for competency, it should flight, not just selecting a for what's available right then, but thinking is this the leader that has the capacity to do more later on? And then last week looking at chemistry, you know, how well does the chemistry matched the team, the franchisee market team that they're part of the people that they'll work with at the support center staff. So what we look for and what we look for at Chick-Fil-A is the number one character that matched the organization competency to match the role in chemistry that matches the team. And that's true of Franchisee selection at Chick-Fil-A. It's also true of the support staff.
Amanda Hammett: 06:52
Oh, absolutely. I am very good friends with several people that actually work at, at corporate headquarters and also the process to be hired there has, you know, it really is a long process, but it's also a very rigorous process and you guys have done an incredible job of leading through who's going to be successful. Because everybody I know that comes into work for check for like corporate, they're there for life there and they, they're very proud of that fact. And that's not something that you see a lot in other companies and other corporations in other industries. What do you think it is? what is it in that recruiting and hiring process that really makes you say, okay, this person is going to be a rock star here?
Dee Ann Turner: 07:43
Well, to start with, one of the things that I like to say is I don't hire people. I select talent. And there's a difference when you hire people, you, I think of quantity. Now think about in the restaurant environment, are there enough employees to cover the shift? Are there, you know, do I have enough people in the dining room to have enough people in the back of the house to prepare food? But when I think about selecting talent, it's like do I have the people with the character, competence, and chemistry to fit the organizations the role and the team. And so that first difference is a huge difference. The difference between hiring people and selecting Tamar. And I think the other part, um, and over time, especially with the millennial generation, you know, they want faster decisions and faster opportunities. So cheerful life might adjustment overtime in their selection culture around that.
Dee Ann Turner: 08:33
You know, when I came on board, it wasn't uncommon to take six months to be selected. And now that time has had to shorten. But one of the things that, that chick-fil-a doesn't cut corners on is making sure that it's a match both ways. Making sure that the candidate is not just the best candidate for the job, but that the candidate sees chick-fil-a is the best organization. Yeah. So the selection process includes opportunities not just to evaluate the candidate, but most clearly for the candidate to also evaluate Chick-Fil-A. And while, you know, you made the comment, you said they're there for life and you know, I was there for 33 years, there are 40-year veterans. It's a common thing, but the reality is is that business is changing and generational differences in. So now, you know, as I was particularly, we would say, we'd like longterm decisions.
Dee Ann Turner: 09:24
So we hope that people will be with us longer than what you would expect somebody to be with an organization. But we recognized that things were changing and not necessarily was that a lifetime anymore, but it very well could be. The reason is after the selection of that talent, they just, the way Chick-Fil-A stewards their talent and the opportunities that they have. And you know, every person at the support center, positive development plan, everybody has a budget for their own personal development and then work with their supervisor and in their self-identified needs and like can use those development dollars in all kinds of ways to improve not just as an employee and a leader, but also I'm personally in areas that would help them personally to better develop, to be more effective in their role. And chick-fil-a and franchisees helped the same opportunity is part of their agreement is they're able to use funds for their own development too. So it's an organization that truly believes in lifelong learning, provides those opportunities to steward their talent well. And that has a lot to do. One stay so long.
Amanda Hammett: 10:35
Oh, I would agree. I, as you know, as my friends have always said, you know, that is one of the things that they have enjoyed the most is that they have been encouraged to continue to learn. There's a lot of companies out there that say, Oh yeah, yeah we will, we provide these opportunities. But actually, it is really something that is important. It's in the day to day culture and it's very much encouraged to for everyone to do that. And that is something that is so important, especially for millennials, especially for Gen z employees. They're looking for that investment in them and they're looking to be able to continuously learn and grow and push themselves in different ways. So I love this. You guys are way ahead of the curve. This is wonderful.
Dee Ann Turner: 11:21
Alright. You know, as I said, it's growing constantly and chicken lady continues to add a lot of talent in this area of their business and I'm sure that that will help secure that for the future as well. And you know, part of my work in the last year since retired particularly is traveling around to a lot of other organizations too and seeing some of their remarkable cultures and I continue to find that organizations that are willing to invest, you know, a lot in their selection process and then also in the stewardship that those employees are able to keep them around a lot longer. You know, one of the things that were kind of funny, I'll have to tell you, when I first came to Chick-Fil-A and I started this work, I didn't have a budget for real key item in human resources.
Dee Ann Turner: 12:07
I didn't have a budget for separation. It's amazing. And the reason I did is that the truth, Kathy really getting intend on making any changes. I had a very nice budget for selection and I had a pretty healthy budget for stewardship, but it had no budget for separation because he didn't really believe he believed if we did those other two things, well we really wouldn't have that money. Now, of course, is Chick-Fil-A grew from a, like I said, $175 million when I came there, the 10 and a half billion when I left, we obviously needed that. But to that very day that the selection and stewardship project always outweighed what we, what was invested separation.
Amanda Hammett: 12:51
So let's talk about that all talents. And that is coming out when?
Dee Ann Turner: 12:54
September 3rd.
Amanda Hammett: 12:56
September the third. So for those of you watching or listening is already available to be pre-ordered pretty much everywhere. Correct?
Dee Ann Turner: 13:06
Here, go to my website and get it too.
Amanda Hammett: 13:09
Okay. All right, we'll put a link to that below this interview, but so why was bet on talent so important for you to write? Because writing a book is not easy. It is sometimes a very painful process, but why was it so important for you to write that on top?
Dee Ann Turner: 13:26
You know, the funny thing is is that I wanted to be a writer since I was eight years old. I was a journalism major. My first trip to college and when I got out of school when I realized was two things. One is I didn't have the life experience and anybody was going to read more, read about everything after a drive. And secondly, I could live again. So I took off in a little bit of a different direction, but that love never left me.
Dee Ann Turner: 13:49
And finally in 2014 when two things have happened, the year before my dad had passed away. And in 2014, Truett Cathy passed away and they had really been two significant business mentors in my life. And all of a sudden I started writing down all of these lessons, all of these things that I had learned and principles around growing remarkable culturing around selecting extraordinary talents on started his blog posts. And the next thing I knew I had 16,000 words. I was on my way to a book. And so it came important to me to publish the book for two reasons. One is I didn't want the things that I had learned I didn't want the people that were on that journey with me is on the earth. Those early days of Chick-Fil-A lady learn directly from true it. I didn't want us to ever forget what he taught us. And secondly, all the thousands of people that would come after me, I wanted there to be some record of what we learned because, you know, true, it said people decisions from the most important decisions a leader makes. And Ben on talent is really, the encapsulation of how you make those great people decisions. And I just felt like it was something very, very important that lots of people would benefit from. And so that's why I've written it.
Amanda Hammett: 15:06
That's amazing. Cool. I love, I love that because I think that a lot of times companies can be a little shortsighted when it comes to recruiting. Now I'm a former recruiter, so I understand that what I'm about to say is probably not very popular. But a lot of times it's more about filling a role, filling a role, and they're only looking at that immediate need. And I liked that you guys are Chick-Fil-A specifically focused on the person as in a very holistic way. And not only just the person and what they're capable of then, but where they can go eventually as long as everything, values, and character align that can take you really far, but it's not, but it's gotta be something that you've got to have the vision for. Now let me ask you this. What have you guys found or what have you seen, whether it's a Chick-Fil-A or some of the other companies that you've been working with since you're retired, since your retirement? Have you noticed any financial benefit to really focusing on talent and getting the right talent the first time?
Dee Ann Turner: 16:18
Well, there's not a question about when you talk with other organizations about this too, but that the when you focus on selecting the right talent from the beginning, I mean just the cost savings of what it takes to resect and retraining and so forth with people. So even though it's painful, especially in this full-employment economy, we're all in. I mean, that's everywhere I go to, that's what we're talking about is this cool employment economy. And you know, I'm just, I'm lucky to get a warm body much less, you're talking about this extensive selection process, but in the recruiting process, you know what I encourage employers and companies always be recruiting talent is around you all the time. Don't wait too. You have a role to be recruiting. Recruiting is about relationships and developing those relationships so that when you have that opportunity, it's right there.
Dee Ann Turner: 17:15
You've got that person there, you've built that relationship and they're ready because they have a personal relationship with you. They're willing to make that change. Even in economy, in full employment economy that we're in now. Now think about an executive on work with three years. He was five when I, my role was heavy recruiting. Amanda, what? I loved this executive because a lot of other executives is like, that was my job. You know, go find the people. That's your job. And but he was different. He saw that it was a partnership and that was very much a part of his to always be recruiting. And that guy never had a problem finding talent. In fact, to this day, some of the really outstanding young leaders, I'll see a Chick-Fil-A as this executive selected them and here they are growing and so forth. But it started in relationships, some of them when they were still in high school. And I saw the same thing. I was with a client recently in speaking at their conference and I was watching some of their success stories and you know, they had one of their leaders was very involved in the community and she spent a lot of time developing those relationships and all of her counterparts were talking about how they couldn't find any talent. She has people waiting in line waiting for an opening in her organization.
Amanda Hammett: 18:35
That's an amazing thing to see. But it's, it's also very amazing to me that people want to complain, but they don't want to put in the work to build those relationships, which are so valuable.
Dee Ann Turner: 18:49
Well, wait here that, I mean, you know, when you have a job, you know, you think about all the other roles that people, that leaders have. I mean, and they have this main thing they're being held accountable for in the organization, which is why it's so important that as organizations select leaders, they select people who can be talent, mammals who can attract people who are great. They're not great managers, they're great leaders that people will want to follow. Because they do have other responsibilities. But this is key for their success in those who do it well, know that they know the better talent they select, the easier their job will be. And actually, when they have great talent, they can spend more time on finding work tower.
Amanda Hammett: 19:32
That's true. So let me ask you this, you kind of talked about the new kind of, you know, talked about this just a second ago, but let's say we have a team, young team, millennials, Gen C's, and how do you recognize when you're looking at this team, who has the capability of being a great leader? Is there something that you're looking for when you look out at this group?
Dee Ann Turner: 19:59
Cool. For me, I'm looking for a track record and you know, a strong track record of leadership. Even in the youngest of candidates. I started, I'll tell you a story about this young man. I'm super proud of him. I started recruiting him when he was in the 10th grade to be a Chick-Fil-A support center staff member. Now he was years away from being eligible, but he was well-rounded. He was, I can I sign on the football field. He was the leader, he was a great student. He had ambition and dreams. And so he happened to be a friend of one of my sons and I just developed a relationship with them. Impala. His first year out of Georgia tech when it was a time when jobs were a little bit more scares. But you know, most organizations want freshman interns in there.
Dee Ann Turner: 20:49
They're high, they're selecting, excuse me, junior year. Well, some of them are adding, but we would be selecting juniors and seniors, you know, that could come on board with us afterward. But I was able to convince the group that he would work with that he was just a really exceptional talent. And so he came on board and he worked that summer and did a fabulous job. Went Back to Georgia Tech and the next two summers he spent at ups and Halliburton and we competed to get him that final summer. And he came and he's still there today. He's been there for a number of years now. I want to say maybe he's, I can't say six or seven, but leading in his function, doing a great job, bright future. And you know, that's, that's not uncommon about how to look at talent. It's like, so, you know, he had that leadership track record, that strong character, even for the few responsibilities he had, even as a teenager, he shoulda a lot of competencies there in his relationship strength, the chemistry with other people.
Dee Ann Turner: 21:52
It was really obvious. So if you know what you're looking for in your talent that you're looking for that character competency and chemistry and what the traits are in that, then it's, that is a whole lot easier to identify it. So the first thing you asked me the question, what are you looking for? Well, the first thing I'm looking, I'm looking for is a leadership track record because I know that these people decisions that eventually, even if it's not a leadership role, right then I'm going to need leaders and great source of getting leaders would be from the bitch that I've already created. So I'm trying to bring those walls. The second thing I'm looking for, I'm looking at there for people who are here to serve. Now, I've spent my career in the hospitality and service industry. So obviously that would be part of what I would be looking for is people who are wanting to serve others.
Dee Ann Turner: 22:38
ou never want my sweat to a corporate staff member. Their whole job was to serve chick-fil-a franchisees. Our franchisee's job is pretty obvious. They're serving customers and even their own employees. So I'm looking for people who have a real heart for service was always important to me. I look for people who were showing good judgment and good decision making. You know, we all make mistakes. I've made my full share of course, but when you see a pattern of that is probably not the best talent you could select. So I'm looking for somebody who's made a strong track record of good decisions. Those are some very general things above and beyond what's required for the job. But that's the when I'm looking for the diamond in the rough, so mine doesn't have a lot of experience. Those are the types of things I'm looking for.
Amanda Hammett: 23:28
That's amazing. I love that. And I love that you have this completely laid out. This is your very specific that is I think a skill that a lot of hiring managers at whatever level you may be a need to really develop. Is this being able to say, okay, it's more than just what's on a resume? It's like, it's got to be more than that. I am not a believer in the warm body recruiting process is what I call it. I'm more in they've got to fit your culture and it sounds like you've got that down pat. I love that too.
Dee Ann Turner: 24:03
Warm bodies are just hiring people, but when you find a match that's working talent.
Amanda Hammett: 24:08
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well wonderful. Well, Dan, I have enjoyed this time with you so, so much. We could actually go on for another two or three hours, but I try to be very mindful of my audience members time and effort. Where can you tell everybody where they can find your book? Remind them again when it's going to come out and yeah, let's do that.
Dee Ann Turner: 24:34
Right. Bet on talent. How to create your remarkable culture that wins the hearts of customers will be released on September 3rd is now available for preorder just about anywhere anyone would order books online and it'll be in bookstores on September the third I'll say, visit me at my website, which is at DeeAnn, excuse me, DeeAnnTurner.com. You can order the book directly from retailers off of that one. Also, I might ask your listeners to please follow me, especially on a at Linkedin, at @DeenAnnTurner, on Twitter, at Instagram at the Internet and then finally my Facebook author page. I would love to interact with them there.
Amanda Hammett: 25:16
Perfect. Well, wonderful. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. I hope that you took a tremendous amount of notes and learned a lot from Dee Ann and we will see you in the very next episode.
Amanda Hammett: 25:28
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.
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Mentoring is one of the most effective ways to teach and guide young employees. But what does it really take to be a great mentor? I asked Ralph Barsi, who mentors some of our very own Rockstar guests.
Ralph Barsi is the VP, Global Inside Sales at Tray.io. Ralph Barsi leads the worldwide sales development organization at ServiceNow. Ralph regularly speaks and writes about sales and leadership and is recognized among the top inside sales leaders in the technology industry. He publishes most of his material at https://ralphbarsi.com/show-your-work/.
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The Transcript - Round II: Mentoring for Impact Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
Hey there everybody. My name is Amanda Hammett and today on the next generation rock stars we have round two with Ralph Barsi. Now if you have been following us, you know that Ralph was on a couple of weeks ago and he shared with us just all kinds of knowledge bombs so you need to go back and check that episode out if you missed it. But today we have Ralph Barsi back from service now. Rob, welcome to the show.
Ralph Barsi: 00:38
Thanks, Amanda. It's great to be back. Thanks for having me again. I appreciate it.
Amanda Hammett: 00:41
No worries. Well, I will tell you, Ralph, you are the only person who has been invited back for a ride.
Ralph Barsi: 00:48
Okay, that's awesome.
Amanda Hammett: 00:53
So there was snow there. The whole reason I originally reached out to you was to talk about mentoring because I know a couple of people that you mentor, but we had so much to talk about the last time. We didn't even get to it. So we had to do around two.
Ralph Barsi: 01:08
Here we are. You're right. We had a good conversation last time. So I would encourage any of the viewers today. Go back and take a look at our first conversation before you continue on with this one and a, you know, you'll see how we're picking up where we left off. I'm glad we can talk about mentoring and mentorship. It's an important craft and it's, it's something that I think more people need to take advantage of on both sides, both the mentors and the mentees. So I'm looking forward to getting into it.
Amanda Hammett: 01:33
Awesome. So let's start at a basic level. So how do you define mentoring for yourself?
Ralph Barsi: 01:42
To be a mentor. Well, let's start first an on the mentee side, you know, someone who is a mentee looking for a mentor, someone who wants to level up, they want to improve, uh, in their profession and their craft in life. And they are vulnerable enough to ask for a guide or a coach or a teacher or someone who could shed light and share insights based on their experiences to maybe shine the spotlight in places that the mentees not considering or even thinking about. And so it's a combination of that teacher coach guide in my definition that kind of rolls into what a real mentor is.
Amanda Hammett: 02:28
That's a great, great definition. I love that you started out with the leveling up, but also the teacher-coach guide. I mean I think that word guide I think is really key.
Ralph Barsi: 02:39
Absolutely. You know, it's a, there's a great zen saying, I think it's a zen proverb. You know, when the pupil is ready, the master appears. Yes. And it's the exact same law that states seek and you shall find. So if you really want to level up and you to start finding a guide or teacher or mentor to kind of walk the path with you, they won't appear until you start looking for them. So you have to decide first on your own that you're committed to finding that person or those people and you'll be amazed how they surface, they will show up, the universe will conspire to put them in your path. So it's a super optimistic, positive thing to think about if you really want to go that route.
Amanda Hammett: 03:30
I love it. Yes, you're absolutely correct. Now, I would assume that you have had over the years, some pretty amazing mentors that have really modeled this for you.
Ralph Barsi: 03:43
I have a personally and professionally, I've had mentors that I didn't even ask to have as mentors, people who've just kind of noticed that I was looking to improve in certain areas and they were able to offer some wisdom and knowledge. And I'm pretty open and transparent and candid anyway. So I can always get better on my listening skills and I can always get better on how I hear and accept and apply the feedback that has been super tough for me throughout life and still is. But I think I've improved quite a bit over the last several years. And just hearing people's feedback of me and about me and how I can, you know, turn the dial in certain spots to just be a better person.
Amanda Hammett: 04:36
I think that we could all use that feedback and sometimes it is, it's tough to take and it hurts a little bit.
Ralph Barsi: 04:43
Totally. And a lot of people will say feedback is a gift and, you know, sure. Thank you. I appreciate the gift, but I don't like the gift all the time.
Amanda Hammett: 04:56
You're right. I've had those moments where people feel me, but it's a get back like,
Ralph Barsi: 05:01
oh yeah, it's things a little bit. But so, you know, let's talk about mentoring and let's, let's talk about it, whether it's personal, professional, and maybe you can share too with the audience, you know, tell us about your mentors and your experience with mentoring.
Amanda Hammett: 05:16
Absolutely. You know, it's funny that you mentioned a little while ago that, you know, what was it, the proper, basically when the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear. And that really resonated with me because that has been the case for me, especially the past five, 10 years of my career where I felt like I was in this area and I felt like I had something extra to give, but I didn't, there wasn't really a defined place for me. And so I was really reaching and trying to find that place. How do I start this place? And I was searching and searching and she did, she appeared and she has been a pioneer in her own field. And, and she was like, this is, she really helps me wrap my head around it and it's been a beautiful learning and teaching experience for me. And now I'm just really fortunate that I, you know, she's come to me recently and said, I am so proud of what you have been able to accomplish. And to me, that is like it, you know, the best. Yes, I could have gotten because she's recognized like how, how hard I've had to work to get to where I am.
Ralph Barsi: 06:30
Yeah. It means the world, you know, especially to mentors really care. They really care about you moving the needle in your own life and when you can illustrate that progress and then, you know, you've got the gratitude and the awareness of how far you've come. That just, that means the world to mentors. And that's what it's all about. And it's not uncommon, Amanda, what you mentioned, how, you know, you're just, you're trying to wrap your head around it. You know, you need some help in some areas, but you're not quite sure how to get started. What's step one is et cetera. So many people feel that way. So what's really important for those listening and watching who are just contemplating whether or not they want to take that leap and kind of get into a mentorship relationship, write it out, you know, you, I mean, just spill it all out onto paper and you know, use the concept of beginning with the end in mind.
Ralph Barsi: 07:25
What, what short, mid and long term outcomes are even important to you. And you and I started to talk about this in our last talk, you know, kind of do a thorough self-assessment and identify what those short, mid and long term goals are. And also identify how you define what's short, mid and long term means it means something different to all of us. And I would highly recommend, again, spilling it all out, really writing it all out, what's bothering you, what challenges you're encountering over and over again, what patterns you've identified and what you want to fix. And then boil it down to the essentials so that when you do have those initial conversations with your mentor, it's concise, it's simplified, it's a clear path to where you're trying to get and that's going to help them help you have. So yeah. Otherwise, you're going to experience what both you and I have experienced. You're like, um hmm. I think I need help. I'm just not quite sure where and what. Well, hey, if I were a mentor listening to that, I don't even know where to start either. So, yeah, help me, help you that it's that simple.
Amanda Hammett: 08:39
Absolutely. And you know, one thing that I would add to those, those short, mid and long term goals and really be looking at yourself where you are is being honest with yourself, with where you are. Because it is very easy in today's world to really start to compare. It's like, oh no, you know, I can do this well. And it's like, well, can I, you know, is it world-class or is it, I can get by.
Ralph Barsi: 09:06
What will come from that? Those types of questions and assessments are, you know, perhaps you create smart goals, you know, what are what's the acronym again? Help me. I think it's simple. It's measured. It's actionable. A reasonable or realistic and timely. Yeah. So if you think about those categories when you're writing down your goals and you really you know, make it easy for the two of you to measure your progress, that's a huge step that you could take. Perhaps it becomes a plan on a page. A lot of businesses do this. We do it all over service now. For example, we have a plan on a page with what are top three to five initiatives are and kind of what rolls into accomplishing those initiatives and perhaps one page on yourself and your assessments and your goals is really gonna help the two of you get the conversation started and that's where your mentor can really weigh in and help you kind of tailor it or, you know, frame it up in a more proper way for the two of you to move forward on.
Amanda Hammett: 10:13
I agree. So let me ask you this, and you've kind of touched on this a little bit. Um, but what really as a mentor, what is your role? What is your role?
Ralph Barsi: 10:28
Wow. What a good question. What a broad answer I can give you for that. The way I see it number one, I'm here to listen. I'm here to listen. And ultimately what I'm to do is help you connect the dots to get to where you want to go. Oh yes. You know, and if I see some obstacles that are on your path, I have to help mitigate the obstacles or make the obstacles appear smaller than they are. Because you're so focused on producing high-quality work, moving forward. You have an intensity level of focus. You have a set time that you are going to invest in working towards your goals. And I help you get there. Ultimately the best mentors ask questions, they ask questions so that you, Amanda can arrive at the answer yourself. We don't parachute in and go, hey, look, thanks so much for the smart goals.
Ralph Barsi: 11:32
Here's what you're going to want to do for A, B, C, and d. Instead. We'll ask them, well, why is that an important goal of yours? And if you were to stack rank these top three goals, what would be the first one you'd really want to accomplish versus the last one and why? you know what w w how can you visualize yourself having already accomplished these goals? What type of person would you be like how would you be talking to me if those goals were already accomplished? Who would you pay this forward to? Who would you go help knowing what you don't know yet?
Amanda Hammett: 12:06
Yes.
Ralph Barsi: 12:07
So that's how I see a mentor. That's what mentors do. That's the best mentors do.
Amanda Hammett: 12:11
All right. I would agree with you. I would agree with you. Yeah. And I, you know, another thing that my mentors have done for me is they have challenged my thinking and you know, sometimes there have been times where I've been thinking maybe too small and this one mentor, in particular, she was just like, yeah, you can totally do that. But, and I always knew when she said that I knew like she's about to give me a mental buck kicking. And I knew it was, it wasn't, she really pushed me to be uncomfortable in a lot of ways. And it was, it was a wonderful gift because now I live a lot of my business life in a state of Semyon comfort and that's okay. I've gotten really comfortable with it.
Ralph Barsi: 12:57
Well, that discomfort equals growth is on its way. And, uh, if I were your mentor, for example, I'd want to make sure I kept you accountable on what you said you were going to do. Yeah. And just kept your focus on it. There may be instances where you bring up areas that you're trying to improve in and I might know people in my network that are gonna do a way better job of kind of teasing out the best in you than I would in those areas. So I would broker introductions and make sure that you're, you know, expanding your network and adding value to it at the same time. As we've talked about before, the more value you add, the more valuable you become in the process. And it's just really important to add value even in the smallest of increments.
Amanda Hammett: 13:46
Absolutely. So what I've been seeing a lot lately are companies who have been coming to me to either help them create or tweak or completely revamp an internal mentoring program. And it's always really interesting to see that dynamic within a company. I assume that Sarah's, now, you've kind of alluded to one earlier, I assume that you guys have one. So what do you think is the benefit to a company to have an internal mentoring program?
Ralph Barsi: 14:16
Sure. A great question and yeah, we'll just focus on professional for a minute. Okay. So I read a study recently, now, I read it recently, but the study is probably two years old. And it said that 71% of the fortune 500 companies have formal mentoring programs. So that's a good thing. That's a good thing in that over, you know, two-thirds of them are, are believing in this. And it also means that just through simple Google search, you could start to find the frameworks that these fortune 500 companies are using to drive their mentoring programs. And you can, you know, take pieces or parts of it and create your own mentoring program in your own company. You don't have to be a fortune 500 company to, you know, to drive it. So I have seen it not only in service now, but in the other companies, I've worked with, not only at the macro level where the company offers a program but at the micro-level where, for example, the development of my sale organization, we too have our own mentorship program within the company.
Ralph Barsi: 15:21
The benefits are boundless really. I mean, number one, you've got employees who are engaged. They are, they, they feel like they're in a place where they're celebrated, not tolerated. They feel like their accomplishments are being recognized at the very least by their mentors, right. They feel like it's a place that they can grow and thrive. So, you know, from a company's pulse standpoint, you've got killer retention rates. Yes. And you've got killer promotion rates because you have employees who believe in themselves and are actively working to improve their game. So they're staying in their companies, they're being promoted within their companies, and then ultimately they're paying forward the great experiences they've had with mentors to help others grow in their own. Right. So, I mean, and that's just a couple benefits. It just goes on and on. But I can't emphasize enough the importance of having one in your company or starting one. If there isn't one, maybe that's a sign that you need to I'm light a fire or under yourself and get that mentorship program started. Be that be the one carrying the torch.
Amanda Hammett: 16:35
Absolutely. Well you know, and, and something else is really interesting. I there are some studies out there that actually suggest that not only does the mentee really benefit but the mentor themselves actually benefits and when there is a solid mentorship program in place, actually the mentee is 84% more likely to stay with the company.
Ralph Barsi: 17:00
Yup. I believe that.
Amanda Hammett: 17:01
I'm sorry the mentor is 86% yup. No, I mean the mentor. So the person actually you know, helping and guiding and teaching and coaching, they tend to stick around for those types of things. And that is, that is something that is a beautiful thing that companies are always coming to me like, oh you know, we have this whole between 27 and like 47 how do we fill it? I'm like, let them to let them guide. Let them go actually.
Ralph Barsi: 17:28
Right. There's a great, yeah, there's a great business leader and thought leader out there. His name is Rameet Satie.
Amanda Hammett: 17:35
Oh yes, yes. I follow him.
Ralph Barsi: 17:37
So he's the author of the book. I will teach you to be rich. So his background really stems from finance, personal finance. Anyway, Remeet has written a ton of great content material on mentorship programs. And there's one article I wrote down and the title is why successful people don't want to mentor you. So I suggest you look that one up and read the details behind it. And then another great article he wrote was met my mentor Jay Abraham, who's a marketing master and learn how to find your own mentor. So I would recommend people searching for those two and maybe in show notes, Amanda, we can include links to those articles, but it really offers great tactical advice on how to approach mentors for the first time, how to ask for their time. Another great concept I think about is Simon Sinek golden circle. You know, Willard, the Bullseye is why and then how, and then what, those are some questions you should be asking yourself before approaching a mentor. And if you are a mentor, being approached by a potential mentee, have them answer those questions. Why are you coming to me? How are we going to do this? How's it gonna work? And then what is it going to entail? And I think it's just a great, a beginning, middle end to think about for both parties to really establish a solid long-lasting relationship.
Amanda Hammett: 19:06
Absolutely. So, you know, I would imagine that you know, you're the type of guy that's probably approached to be a mentor a whole lot. And how do you decide who, you can't take them all on it, you just can't? And so is it really when they come to you and they've already got this kind of outline or is it, do you take on the cases where they're just spinning in their head? Or how do you make that decision?
Ralph Barsi: 19:33
It's more the former than the latter. If someone comes to me and they are personal, they are specific and they at least offer a skeleton of what it is they're trying to uh, get out of this relationship. I will absolutely take it into consideration. You also have to think about, we're all crazy busy, so if I can serve and accommodate them through my schedule, then I will absolutely. Even if it's an initial phone call and we decide together that, you know, you might want to talk to Amanda, I'm going to connect you with her. She might be somebody who's going to have the bandwidth and is also going to have the expertise and experience in these specific areas since you called them out. It can probably be a better help than I can. In fact, that recently happened. Somebody reached out to me on Linkedin, asking if I'd consider mentoring them and they're based in Germany.
Ralph Barsi: 20:31
And time zones alone are going to be tough. And then you talk about language barriers and just you don't want things lost in translation. So because they provided some specifics on, you know, what x to y means to them. I've put them in touch with some my leaders and colleagues in Frankfurt and in Munich because I already know that these leaders can bring so much value to the table for this individual and there in Germany. It's just a lot more effective for that person than I could be living in the San Francisco Bay area. So those are two examples. I, you know, the best mentors and even the best mentees are very resourceful mentees are ones that really do their due diligence to find out why do I want to contact Amanda or why do I want to contact Ralph? And in turn, we need to do our due diligence to see, well, what is this person's linkedin profile look like?
Ralph Barsi: 21:28
If I Google this person's name, what will I learn about this person? Some of them, you know, I'll learn nothing. I'll hear crickets chirping because they've done nothing in the marketplace or in their community to add value. And that might be a very good first topic for our first talk, right? You know, hey, you're trying to build your brand. Well, I'm, it's very hard to learn about you. And what it is you bring to the table. Let's start there. And that's usually a pretty good, good talk long answer your question. But those are some components that I consider someones to approach me.
Amanda Hammett: 22:00
Absolutely. Well, I, you know, as I've told you before, I happen to be familiar with a couple of people that you've mentor two people, Nicolette Mullinex and Morgan Jay Ingram, they are both rock stars in their own right.
Ralph Barsi: 22:15
Yes, they are.
Amanda Hammett: 22:16
And Nicolette actually was the one who initially was like, you know, you might want to speak with Ralph. And she told me she'd walked me through how she really approached you because she does not work with you nor Norris Morgan. And it was really in, she seemed to have a very systematic approach to how she, I don't know how it came across to you, but how she went about approaching you to be her mentor and me, you know, she's killing it. So I think she's doing okay.
Ralph Barsi: 22:46
Yes. She and Morgan are both killing it and we'll continue to, they've got that Moxie. Yeah. And they've also got that fire in them that just wants to be better all the time. They hold themselves to very high standards, higher than I can hold them too, or you can hold them to, and there's a lot of their there when you've got a potential mentee who's just got that fire burning. And if you don't help them, they will go find someone else who will. And you just gotta love that. And yeah, Nicolette and Morgan are both rock stars to use your words and there's just, there's no question they're going to continue to be very successful in their career. And what I love is both of them will continue to help others as well. They'll give back and, uh, they'll, they'll impact lives along the way, which is really what it's all about.
Amanda Hammett: 23:34
Absolutely. I mean, Nicoletta's is running a fairly substantial team these days and Morgan has a quite the linkedin following Ricky calves you know, and tricks on, on being a sales rep and, you know, it's, he's just, I'm always amazed at the stuff that he puts out and just the way he looks at things and just his positivity on it just on a day to day basis.
Ralph Barsi: 23:57
Yeah. It's infectious. Yeah. That enthusiasm is infectious. And, you know, as you said, I mean, both Morgan and Nicolette are, they're placing more souls every single day into the community. And those more souls are there to help others. And not everybody will gravitate towards some of those nuggets. A lot of people will and those who do and actually apply what they're learning from, from those too, we'll do a lot of good in the world and that just warms my heart.
Amanda Hammett: 24:29
Absolutely. So will you actually kind of segue into my next question. What really is the benefit for you to become a mentor? How does that benefit you besides warming your heart?
Ralph Barsi: 24:44
Wow, that's a tough question. We're getting a little personal here, which I don't mind, but I have believed for a very long time that that's why I'm here. This is the this is my vocation. You know some people in the professional world see me as a sales development leader. Okay, great. If that's the channel or the vehicle that I'm going to use to impact people in a very positive way, then so be it. But I do feel like that's, that's why I'm on this planet is really to serve others and to lead by example and illustrate what servant leadership really is. Everyone's got their opinions on it. Some people aren't fans of it. Some people think it's a lot of fluff and I'm okay with that. I actually respect everybody's opinion. We all have different experiences and insights and we come from different places in the world.
Ralph Barsi: 25:37
That's okay. As long as you are using your unique strengths and gifts to, uh, make the world a better place, that's, that's really why we're here anyway. So, I dunno if it's, you know, the process of leaving behind a legacy. If I think globally act locally, I'm going to start thinking about my three boys and being a, a great leader by example for them so that they can grow up to be men for others. That's, I'm fine with just that, but if it positively impacts others in the ripple effect, then that's even better. But I hate to break it to you Amanda, but yeah, it's because it just warms my heart.
Amanda Hammett: 26:16
No, and that's, that's perfectly okay. But I mean, you really are, you know, leaving a legacy. You really are creating that, that ripple that will go out. You know, the Morgans of the world, the Nicolette's of the world are, they're taking your teachings and they're spreading that, you know, with their own spin and their own take on it. But they're spreading it and they're touching other people's lives. And I think that you're, you know, not to say you can hang it up, but mission accomplished, like doing that. You're accomplishing your goal with, you know, with what you set out to do in this world. So
Ralph Barsi: 26:48
Thanks, Amanda. I appreciate that about the bed. Candidly, you know, I'm not really the source, I'm simply replicating goodness I've seen from others along my career path and in my life that, you know, just so many different people I've just taken examples from and said, yeah, that's, that's the way to do it. That's the way to rule. And so that's great to hear. And yeah, I want to make sure Nicolette and Morgan see this and I want to make sure that people who don't know who they look them up and even reach out to them and tell them, you know, thank them for the impact that they're making.
Amanda Hammett: 27:22
Absolutely. Yeah. And they both, they both are. And I, cool. I'm Morgan on the show last season. I'm going to have Nicolette on a show next season, so absolutely there people will be hearing from them for sure from this platform. But you know, I want our, you know, wrap this up with just this, you said in the last episode that we did together that players want to play with other a players. The way that I see it is that you are a player because you are not only great at your job, but you're great at developing others to be great at their job, whatever that means to them, whatever that success long term, short term means to them, you're great at it. And we see that in Nicolette, we see that in Morgan and there are others out there just like that. So I, for one like to say thank you. But I would just encourage you to keep on doing what you're doing. I know that you will or you don't have to hear that from me, but thank you. Thank you so much for me and from the world as a whole.
Ralph Barsi: 28:24
Thank you, Amanda. I appreciate that very much.
Amanda Hammett: 28:27
Well, wonderful. Well, thank you guys for being with us and thank Ralph for the impact and the ripple effect that he is having across the world and changing lives every single day. And thank you guys for joining us and we will see you in the very next episode.
Amanda Hammett: 28:42
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.
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When employees are not living up to the expectations you had for them in their role, most companies simply let them go and begin looking to refill the role. But what if you could do something as a leader to turn that employee's performance around? Learn from Malin Ohlsson on how she helped an employee go from being fired to award winning.
Malin Ohlsson is the Operations Manager at IT Garden (Sweden). IT Gården was founded in 1999 and has worked with operations, hosting and cloud solutions since its inception. Their vision is Stressless IT where we deliver the latest technology at a fixed price per user per month. We have over 100 employees, 8 own data centers, Swedish local support and take a great deal of environmental responsibility.
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The Transcript - How Empathy & Understanding Can Change an Employee's Prodcutivity Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
Hi, this is Amanda Hammett and this is Next Generation Rockstars. And today I have a fantastic guest for you. She is joining us from Sweden. Her name is Malin Ohlsson. Malin, welcome to the show.
Malin Ohlsson: 00:26
Thank you for that introduction. I'm working at this small company in South Sweden.
Amanda Hammett: 00:33
Okay. All right.
Malin Ohlsson: 00:35
About 100 employees? And well operation manager during the next six months. I'm also HR. That's a good thing to work in a small company. You can do whatever you want to and a bit more. Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: 00:56
So how did you get the six months of being HR? How did that come about?
Malin Ohlsson: 01:03
Oh, HR manager on the panty leave.
Amanda Hammett: 01:06
Oh, okay.
Malin Ohlsson: 01:06
In fact, I have done it already for six months and we'll do it for another six months.
Amanda Hammett: 01:12
Oh, okay. Well, fantastic. That must be nice to have that lengthy parental leave and in Sweden.
Malin Ohlsson: 01:20
Yeah. It's a very nice benefit. It's all good.
Amanda Hammett: 01:24
Wonderful. I'm a little jealous of that. So. All right, well let's dive in. You've already told us a little bit about you, but what the audience doesn't know is that you know, I'm not a frequent visitor to Sweden. So I actually met you through someone else. I had the good fortune of speaking at a conference, in Europe and severe Spain. And I spoke with a young man who was just a real go-getter and he really impressed me. And his name is Marcus Backstrom. And as I was speaking with Marcus, I asked him, you know, I'm really curious as to who was influential and you're in your career, who has really helped to drive you to where you are today? And that person was you.
Malin Ohlsson: 02:12
That's a great mention because I've only known him for, I think I met him the first time for a year ago. On the training I h M business school. And then he seems, interesting person. He had some challenges around, uh, the most things about the staff. And I think the thing was, I don't hope he mind by that they don't ask the staff, the colleagues what I think, what they want, what they wanted to do if there was satisfied because they don't want to have the answer.
Amanda Hammett: 02:54
Absolutely. And sometimes it's hard to hear the answers from your staff on what they want or what they think.
Malin Ohlsson: 03:01
Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: 03:01
That can be difficult. But it's so important because you can't fix it if you don't.
Malin Ohlsson: 03:06
Yeah. And the only thing that will happen if you don't fix it is that they will leave. They may not the ones that should be okay. The only company, but the high performing. Yes. People, they will leave. Because they can have another job.
Amanda Hammett: 03:26
Absolutely.
Malin Ohlsson: 03:30
So we'll see. That's miss slows now are amazing. He took it from a hard result. No results, both on employee satisfaction and customer satisfaction. He has done a great job.
Amanda Hammett: 03:45
That's wonderful. That means he did the work, he listened to you and he did the work.
Malin Ohlsson: 03:49
You have done lots of work. Yes. So let's talk a little bit about you for just a second. You told us a little bit about what you're doing right now. But I would imagine that in your own career, throughout your entire career, you've witnessed other forms of leadership that are different than your own. How did that, how did those styles of leadership shape who you became as a leader?
Malin Ohlsson: 04:20
I think I have seen both do the less good examples, but what shaped me the most is one of the first managers I had in my first leadership role a long time ago. But what he told me, and it's not due to translated to English, but he told me that always lead according to for these, if I should translate it in, it's like, we always want to be nice to each other. Which decision I ever might take. I always hope to play on my colleagues best. I want to have a nice life in the company or outside the company. And he showed me how you can show concern and hot, but was careful that I was responsible for my development and created my own conditions. You can do that for me. And he was really obvious about that.
Amanda Hammett: 05:23
Oh, that's wonderful. I mean, I think that a lot of leaders sometimes forget that. You know, you're not just, it's not just about producing numbers, it's really about producing the next generation of leaders. It's really about building them up. And sometimes that involves hard lessons to learn, but it's there. It's about treating people. That's what, that's how people want to be treated. That's wonderful. Yeah. So have you ever, I mean, besides this one boss that you just mentioned, have you ever felt pressure from other bosses or superiors in your companies to focus more on numbers and less on being kind to people?
Malin Ohlsson: 06:08
Yes, absolutely. And sometimes I feel less pressure. Even now then we are a company that delivers competency of assessing, which means that we have to recruit people with high skills. Yes, I calmed down. So in this company, I haven't been here for 15 years. Where all this had a focus on employee satisfaction, well, the last maybe four or five years, realize that employee satisfaction is the figure. And since three years ago, this is one of our main goals. We have three main goals for the company and employee satisfaction is one of them. So it's not, it's not only money but had to work hard to prove it at that it will be a difference if we focus on people. And the Swedish cones.
Amanda Hammett: 07:10
Yes, Yeah. I agree with that wholeheartedly actually. So within my own company, we, my other, my other partner, uh, he focuses on studying high performing companies and teams. And the biggest finding that has come out of that research is that they put employees first employees over the customer. And that's the most important thing. Actually 94.1% of all the companies he has the high performing companies that he has, surveyed and you know, research, they have all put employees first.
Malin Ohlsson: 07:49
Can I please get part of that thing?
Amanda Hammett: 07:52
Yes. I'd be happy. I'd be happy to share that research with you. Yeah, that's really good stuff. I mean, there's a lot of other good findings, but that's the one that always out in my head is, I mean because that's not even close. That's a huge number.
Malin Ohlsson: 08:06
Yeah, it is. And I think the, my generation and younger, I think you have a bigger capability to take that information with us and do something with it. I think that the ones, the older generation has a little bit more to struggle with and calling that
Amanda Hammett: 08:29
Well, you know, it's, it's always about changing and, and going, you know, accepting that change is coming whether you want it to or not, it's coming.
Malin Ohlsson: 08:39
So, let's see.
Amanda Hammett: 08:41
So, all right, well since you brought this up, let's, let's dig into this. What is the difference or what is the influence that millennials have brought into a company culture specifically? You know, I know that you guys work through Europe, not just in Sweden.
Malin Ohlsson: 09:00
That's true. I think if I should take it in some of it. So a greater focus on personal development together with work-life balance. I think that's the pressure that they put Sonos as leaders. Yes. This younger generation is a, they're smarter than my generation because they have a much bigger focus on work-life balance. And on the self self-development that's the thing. Accept anything else. So it has changed us a bit from our annual employee surveys and annual goal meetings. Now we do it every month. They have an interview with all employees and we do our surveys every week with want, but every week. Yes. Because feedback, no, don't live very long for this. These guys who, who've grown up now because they used instant feedback.
Amanda Hammett: 10:12
Absolutely. I agree with that completely. And it's interesting how if you're having an issue with just one, it could be something very minor, but if you, if it's not addressed and I fairly, you know, quick manner, it can fester and it can grow and it can spread and it can not only take over the one employee, but it can start to spread to others. Yes. Yes. It's very toxic. And so it's like one bad apple ruins the whole bunch.
Malin Ohlsson: 10:44
Yeah. It's will like that.
Amanda Hammett: 10:47
So yeah, I love that you guys do that once a week. I think that so many companies depend on that one time a year annual survey. And I'm like, that's just not enough.
Malin Ohlsson: 10:58
No, it isn't. We do once a year. A bigger survey.
Amanda Hammett: 11:01
Yes.
Malin Ohlsson: 11:03
Not a lot of questions, but every week we have a question. Yes. How do you feel this week? What was your week? And you have to click four, a four smileys too happy and too sad. And when you click them, your nearest leader get an email. Yes. Sad. He has to get you a hug something...
Amanda Hammett: 11:29
Does he have to give you a hug?
Malin Ohlsson: 11:30
Yes.
Amanda Hammett: 11:32
I love it. Okay.
Malin Ohlsson: 11:36
He wants a cup of coffee.
Amanda Hammett: 11:41
All right. Okay. That's awesome. I love that. I love that. And that's just through an app on your phone, right?
Malin Ohlsson: 11:48
Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: 11:48
Ah, that's great. So as soon as millennials started coming into the workplace, how did that change your own personal leadership style or did it.
Malin Ohlsson: 12:02
I don't know if it changed me so much. It's hard to see, but I find it easier now to open the show, show more heart. I don't think for 10 years ago I should never ever wrote and male for one of my colleagues that they have to give another colleague a hug. I do. It's exactly what it says. I like when things happen fast and quickly and this generation can handle that better than the older generation. In my point of view. They can have the information. So I don't really know how it changed me. Okay. I have to, I have to be a more instant wait as it could for 10 years ago. It's not possible anymore.
Amanda Hammett: 13:02
I see. Yes, you're right. You're correct on that. Now, what about, I happen to know that you are a very big believer in accountability and you know, can you give the, can you give the audience an example of what that really means to you?
Malin Ohlsson: 13:22
I think I have civil examples. We'll see. I believe that that old people want to be the best self and perform well. That's why I had to challenge my colleagues and me all the time. For example, I have a colleague who one role and it didn't work out really well. We almost agreed about that's her and employment should end. But when I realized what she really said between the lines, I realized that she loved people, not it. So, I also taught to be one of our team leaders a couple of days after we had a conversation about ending her employee comment. It's a bit strange, but today she's one of the all-stars.
Amanda Hammett: 14:29
Really?
Malin Ohlsson: 14:30
She, yeah, she is. She had an award from a service desk. Fuel means Sweden and we'll go in the middle of May to Stockholm B. Yeah. An audience about why she was the year support employed. Yeah. She will. She's one of my best, but I listened to her when she spoke to me. I listened to what she said, not between the lines. And that was my mistake. I'm glad that I had had the opportunity to think over it.
Amanda Hammett: 15:17
Right. That's awesome. That is amazing that you know what a turnaround because she was about to leave your company. Yes. And I'm sure, you know, it was, it was upsetting for her and for you, but you recognize that there was something else there that you were, you were missing. And so congratulations to you for, you know, recognizing, but also for taking that risk because a lot of people would not have taken that risk. But congratulations to her. I mean, that's amazing.
Malin Ohlsson: 15:49
That's all. That's my id. All the responsibility. Well, she got an opportunity and she took it. She has done. So I like that.
Amanda Hammett:16:00
I love that. I love that. That's all the please pass along my congratulations.
Malin Ohlsson: 16:07
That's why I love my work.
Amanda Hammett: 16:09
That's amazing. That is great. That is great. And again, I want to recognize that you, you recognize that and you acted on it. A lot of times we see leaders that, you know, they see, okay, somebody is struggling and maybe they, this isn't the place for them, but that's where the thought process ends. They don't think about where else, what other seats do we have that need to be filled that this person has skills for. So wonderful. That's awesome. I just took a couple of months. That's okay.
Amanda Hammett: 16:45
That's okay. All right. So tell me about, um, do you think that I mean, this question almost a no brainer at this point, do you think that your leadership style and your, you know, belief in, you know, accountability for everybody, do you think that that really helps you retain talent?
Malin Ohlsson: 17:05
Yeah, I think, I think so. Yeah. No, I'm convinced about that. I am, they're too lower the garden. I really care about my colleagues. So I think that's one of the thing and I have the courage to asked the unpleasant questions and to listen to answers and do what it takes. So, yes. Thanks. So
Amanda Hammett: 17:30
Very good. That must be what Marcus learned from you.
Malin Ohlsson: 17:35
I will ask him.
Amanda Hammett: 17:41
Well, obviously, I mean, listening to those answers and what's not being said has actually given you an edge to retain top talent and retention of talent is such a massive issue for company role, but it's also a very expensive issue for companies around. Yeah. Yes. That's very good, I love this. So what I'm, you know, mailing, what do you find are the benefits of really focusing on your people and developing your people? What benefits to accompany are there.
Malin Ohlsson: 18:14
Company perspective? It stays longer and I don't know about, um, your country, but here it's, it's very easy to get a new job if you're a good technician. So we were called for ghetto stay and develop to be the best ones. So I think that's the main reason. And we have customer satisfaction that's really high.
Amanda Hammett: 18:46
Yes, absolutely. Well, if you take care of your employees, they will take care of your customers. Absolutely. Yeah. And you are a testament to that as well apparently.
Malin Ohlsson: 18:58
Yeah, I know. It's like that now our board or comments too. So in that way, in the same direction.
Amanda Hammett: 19:08
That's good. Very good. Now what about I, you know, we've talked a little bit about your influence on Marcus, the young man that I met. But what other advice would you give to an early career employee? Somebody who's just starting out, maybe their very first job. What advice would you give them?
Malin Ohlsson: 19:29
Okay. It's a bit hard, I think, believe in yourself and make mistakes. I think that making mistakes is a good, good way of growth. I think if you take responsibility for a mistake, it's a good thing.
Amanda Hammett: 19:49
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.
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If you have ever worked in an environment where you are celebrated and not tolerated, you know it increases your productivity, profitability as well as overall engagement and loyalty to your company. Learn how Ralph Barsi of ServiceNow approaches attracting and retaining early career "A players".
Ralph Barsi is the VP, Global Inside Sales at Tray.io. Ralph Barsi leads the worldwide sales development organization at ServiceNow. Ralph regularly speaks and writes about sales and leadership and is recognized among the top inside sales leaders in the technology industry. He publishes most of his material at https://ralphbarsi.com/show-your-work/.
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The Transcript - Attracting & Developing "A Players" Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
All right, so today's episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars podcast. I interviewed Ralph Barsi of service now out in Silicon Valley and man, he brought it to this interview. So you need to go ahead and just get your pen and notebook ready because you're going to have to take lots of notes. Ralph really believes in developing that early in career college. Uh, and, and he doesn't just believe it and say these things. He actually is doing it in the trenches like day to day. And he gives you some really practical and actionable steps that you as a leader can take and implement within your company today or your team today. And I think that leaders who have been leading, you know, who are brand new leaders, leaders who've been leading for 20, 30 years, I mean, this is some really good stuff that Ralph brings to this interview. And I really hope that you really listen and take it all at.
Amanda Hammett: 01:07
I in fact loved this interview so much that after the interview I asked Ralph like, Hey, can we do around too? I really wanted to talk to him about mentoring. That was the original reason I reached out to him was to talk to him about mentoring because I personally know some of his mentees and they are killer and we'll talk a little bit about them during the interview, but man, we didn't even get to it. I mean we just didn't have time so I expect to hear more from Ralph Barsi just beyond today and I hope you enjoy this interview.
Amanda Hammett: 01:40
All right, welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. I have an amazing guest for you today. His name is Ralph Barsi and he is my service now, so let's all welcome Ralph, welcome to the show.
Ralph Barsi : 01:51
Thank you so much Amanda, how are you today?
Amanda Hammett: 01:53
I am fantastic working on a little bit low level of sleep, but otherwise great.
Ralph Barsi : 01:59
Oh good to hear. Good to hear. Well, I'm looking forward to talking with you.
Amanda Hammett: 02:02
Me Too. So this has been a long time coming. You were actually nominated to be on the show by two people. One was a rock star that I had on season bond Morgan J Ingram, who is if anybody watched the show last season, you know, Morgan knocks it out of the park every day. The second person will actually be on the show next season for season three and her name is Nicola and I don't want to give anything else away about her, but she's awesome.
Ralph Barsi : 02:29
She is.
Amanda Hammett: 02:30
So let's hear a little bit about you Ralph.
Ralph Barsi : 02:34
Sure. Hello everybody. My name is Ralph Barsi. Today on the global sales development leader at service. Now we're a cloud computing company. We're based in silicon valley. We started 2003, 2004. Our focus was on servicing it departments and streamlining the workflow of help desk environments. But over the years we've really evolved into servicing all business units in the enterprise. So essentially our technology digitize those workflows and makes the experience of fulfilling reclass pretty smooth and simple. My job in service now is to oversee roughly 200 what we call atrs or account development reps. They have a two fold objective. Number one is they drive revenue pipeline for the company by booking qualified meetings for our field organization on their second objective is to become our future sales reps for service now. So we really drive a revenue pipeline as well as a talent pipeline. And it's a blast. I've been here just about four years. I started here in Q four of 2015 and it's gone very quickly. As you can imagine. prior to that I have a little over 20 years experience close to 25 now in sales. The first half of my career was spent as an individual contributor, whereas the latter half has really been leading and scaling sales and sales development teams.
Amanda Hammett: 04:08
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, one thing that I know about you in the sales world that I'm actually gathered from, you know, looking at sales organizations and, and associations, but also the people that are really influencing the market, is that when I'm talking to those influencers in particular, those younger influencers, I'm like, well, who are you looking at? Who are you following? Who, who's mentoring you? And low and behold, it is Ralph Barsi.
Ralph Barsi : 04:35
Wow. That's flattering and humbling. Thank you. I hope I'm adding value to the marketplace. I appreciate it.
Amanda Hammett: 04:42
I would say so. I would say so. So, um, so let's talk a little bit about your role and how you see it. Because I would assume, and I'm making an assumption here and let's clear, clarify this for the audience, but particularly when you're driving that talent pipeline for service, now you're looking primarily at early career, correct?
Ralph Barsi : 05:04
Oh, sure. For the most part we have a relatively young group of atrs and when I say on, so if it helps, I'm 48 years old today. And so young to me is between 20 and 30. And that's largely the demographic of our account development reps. They're relatively early in their career as well as that service now. So we feel that, you know, the leaders here, we feel this time is precious and it's finite and it's a, it's a privilege to be able to develop the skills and the competencies and the accusation that these future salespeople and leaders need to succeed. It's quite a project and exercise, but we're blessed and excited to be the ones to do it.
Amanda Hammett: 05:50
Okay. I love this outlook. Because I know that so many people struggle with the attraction of young talent, but also keeping it. I don't, I think that they're missing a few important foundational items. One is really getting that attraction piece correct, but also the people who are leading them, once they're there, they need to be the right people. So let's talk first a little bit about how do you go about attracting the right talent?
Ralph Barsi : 06:22
Sure. So of course, Amanda, there's different levels of talent that we need to attract. And I'm really happy we're talking about the word and the whole concept of attracting. I think a lot of companies and teams who struggle with finding talent are focused on pursuing that talent. They chase people down, they spray and pray their job descriptions all over the internet and they just hope great candidates come in. Instead, they need to reverse that whole process and they need to focus on them. And I don't, I don't usually say that I'm usually talking about focus outward versus inward. This is different when you want to attract top talent, you have to keep in mind that a players want to play for a player. Coaches, yes. And they want to go to environments where they are celebrated, not tolerated, and they want to learn while they're in these companies so that they can add value and be the best versions of themselves in the workplace.
Ralph Barsi : 07:24
So you as a leader, you really need to focus on what's that bad signal that you've just cast into the sky for people to learn more about. You learn more about your team, learn more about your company and your industry. You know, what's your branding effort like whether it be on Linkedin, whether it be out and about in the marketplace. Can we read some of your content? Can we see you on Youtube? Can we learn about you as a leader to make our decision and discern whether or not we even want to apply to a job on your team at your company? And I think a lot of leaders, I don't think I know a lot of leaders really miss that they are out there focusing on their own brand for whatever reason and top talents going elsewhere.
Amanda Hammett: 08:11
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. And one of the other things that I see in, you know, maybe you agree with this, maybe you don't, but a lot of companies especially, and I don't understand this in a sales organization, but they rely on HR completely. Yes. The machine. And I'm like, I don't understand if your numbers depend on the talent, why aren't you driving this process?
Ralph Barsi : 08:35
Exactly. I mean a lot of, I mean a lot of leaders with all due respect are heads down driving the revenue that they're primarily responsible for. And also people have a hard time writing content, being on youtube, appearing on podcasts like this one because there's maybe a, an inherit fear that they're going to be disliked by the marketplace. So a lot of people out there feel that what I'm doing right now is very self-serving. It's all about Ralph Barsi when it's the complete opposite. I'm just trying to shed light and expose the good things that we're doing at service now, particularly in global sales development, in hopes and with an intent that top talent out there is going to say yes, that's the type of team I can add value to and I can also learn from how do I get there?
Amanda Hammett: 09:28
Absolutely. I would agree with that wholeheartedly, but I would like to add that additionally, I think that other leaders can learn from you whether they're in sales or not. I think that this is something that every leader at any level needs to hear.
Ralph Barsi : 09:43
Awesome. That's even better. Great.
Amanda Hammett: 09:46
All right. So let's talk a little bit about, um, you've done the work. You've done the background work that you needed to do to attract that talent into you and you get in this new early-career employee. What happens from there?
Ralph Barsi : 10:03
Sure. So a great question. A lot of it has to happen preemptively before they even come in. So during the recruiting phase, you have to, first of all, think about the job description that you have out there in the first place. You know, what's the size of the job description? It's okay to have a long job description if it's a killer copy, you know, and it's enthusiastic and compelling and informative and has calls to action where someone can't wait to apply. So think about the verbiage you're using. Think about what audiences that, that verbiage will resonate with or not. So be very mindful of the language that you're using. I mean, for example, some companies who are looking for people to come in and just crush quota, that's going to appeal to a much smaller audience than
Ralph Barsi : 10:56
Then words that would say, hey, come here and grow and develop in your career, sharpen your skills and your competencies. Be surrounded by people who have very high standards and want to move the needle from a to B. That's way more exciting and compelling than the former verbiage. So think about that kind of stuff. And then when they do come in the door, hopefully by that point, during that recruiting phase or interviewing phase, you've all really already talked about the well-lit career path that's ahead of them. If they put some skin in the game in this very role, you know, if they, if they really optimize and maximize the time they have in the role they were hired for and really work to master that role, knowing that it's going to carry them forward in their career and more opportunities will surface the better they do in this existing role.
Ralph Barsi : 11:49
You have to have those types of conversations very, very early on. And then of course when they come in the door, you got to teach them, you know, specifically for sales development reps, the average tenure is maybe 15 to 24 months as an SDR, ADR, BDR, whatever you want to call it before they're up and out into hopefully in other business function within your own company, and even if they go elsewhere, leaders have to recognize that, look, everybody on your team today is eventually going to be an alum of your team. So when they go out into the world, whether it's in your company or elsewhere, they're going to be representing you and they're going to be representing your team, your brand, your company up from the time that they worked for you. So you want to put your best foot forward so that they learn enough to go on and pay it forward down the line. And remember you and the time that, that they had on your team and all the great insights they learned and the experiences they had while they were part of your team. And you want those little reflections and rep represent representations of view out into the world doing good versus the opposite.
Amanda Hammett: 13:04
I just have so many questions.
Ralph Barsi : 13:06
It's right. I mean I'd like to talk about it all day. Say you're in dear to my heart. It's really important.
Amanda Hammett: 13:13
I think that this is super, super important. I think that one of the things that really struck me about what you just said was that about really taking in developing that, you know, first time, you know, this is their first job out of college or university or whatever. That is a hard leadership role and a lot of people are not well suited for that role. And I was wondering if you could share with the audience. What kind of characteristics, what traits would you say would be somebody who would make a good leader for someone who is just right out of college or university? This is their first maybe the second job.
Ralph Barsi : 13:52
Someone who would be a good leader would have a fabulous attitude. They're enthusiastic about the work they're doing and life itself. They walk into a room and they light that room up. They don't suck the life out of it. They see the good in everything and you know, they stay in the sunlight that said they're living by very high standards, high standards that they, they themselves set for themselves versus standards I'm going to set or anyone that I work with is going to set a, they work harder on themselves and they do on their job. They are selfless. They are humble. They are teachers and coaches. They love the people that work with them and for them, they see everybody on their team two years out and they picture them as already successful account or successful team leaders or successful business owners five, 10, 15 years from now.
Ralph Barsi: 14:58
And they understand that in this little pocket of time that they have, they've got to give those people the best up from their experiences. You know, their best insights so that those people can, can go on and pay it forward later. It's attributes like that that I look for when I'm hiring leaders. And then there's the flip side. We're running a business, so you have to have an understanding of the outcomes we're after, how we measure our progress against those outcomes, how to be decisive, how to have intestinal fortitude to sit at a conference room table with a bunch of type a executives who also have numbers to hit and understand that there's a many times throughout your day that you must detach from the emotional aspect and the sunshine, beautiful time that we have here. Developing people to get to work and to understand the performance indicators that we're measuring against, et Cetera, on how you're making a contribution to the business. Let's not lose sight of the business side of things as well.
Amanda Hammett: 16:05
Of course, and that's the whole thing that makes everything move and continue. You can't continue to develop people. There's no business that you're putting them into. So...
Ralph Barsi : 16:15
That's right. So I find myself referring more and more to Ray Daleo his principles and what he speaks about in that book and what his philosophy is, is that you have to almost see yourself as well as your business or your team as a machine. And you are an engineer that simply operates that machine gene. And oftentimes that machine's going to break down in certain areas. Certain parts of the antigen are going to become faulty and you have to be able to identify those faults or gaps and you have to build systems that allow you to look at problems as, oh, we've seen this situation before, we have contingency plans in place based on our experience. So we're going to pull a lever a, lever B, Lever C and we'll get through this thing. No problem. Versus completely freaking out at the gap or the fall and going, oh my God, all hell is broken loose. We're going to slide off the rails here at any moment. It's really just having the wherewithal and the understanding of going, okay, this is a quick little recalibration or modulation that we need to make. And we're back on the rails and we're heading north again. It takes leaders like that to be at the helm.
Amanda Hammett: 17:33
I agree with that. I agree with that and we've all had leaders in the past, or at least I'll speak from my own experience where any tiny thing goes wrong and they are just losing their mind. It's like, how did you get in this role? Really?
Ralph Barsi : 17:46
We've all, unfortunately, we've all been, well, most of us have been exposed. Those leaders in, I avoid them and people like that at all costs. All of a sudden, all of a sudden I'm getting blamed and all of a sudden I'm being berated in front of others and it's just, it's such a whack way to lead people and in fact, over my career, I've kept journal notes in a document that I've kept for many, many years now that I add to on a daily basis on what not to do as a leader. So when I've been exposed to crummy leaders, I've written it down like, hey, Barsi don't do this. Don't do that. Approach it this way. Do the opposite and I'll refer back to it more often than not to just remind myself, you know, how, how you're coming across. You've got to be very self-aware of, of the brand and, and how and a persona that you're showing up with on a daily basis. Because whether you like it or not, you are setting an example and people are taking note. Whether they tell you or never tell you, you're setting an example. So set the best one you can.
Amanda Hammett: 18:51
Absolutely. You know, that's funny you brought up self-awareness. I was actually with a sales team just last week and we did a self-awareness exercise where there's like 400 sellers and you know, you, they have different categories of impression. Little Post-it notes that they had to go write one word and their impression of another person. So somebody, they work with, somebody that they know but don't work with directly and then someone they have seen in the halls but don't actually know what is their impression of that person. And it was funny because people were very like, oh, everybody said I was quiet and shy and I'm not at all. And it was just like, well, what, what are you putting out there? Because it's not just the people you work with, it's your clients, it's your higher-ups. It's everybody. What are you putting out there?
Ralph Barsi : 19:37
Yeah, absolutely. And it's that it's duly noted that, you know when you walk into the workplace thinking that everybody knows something that you don't, or everybody carries a little nugget of value that you can learn from and grow from. It just, it completely changes your perspective on the people you work with. You start to see yourself as really a member of a team that you need to make a contribution to and add value to. And it's just, it's a game changer. Once you realize that, that people likely know something that you don't or have gone through something that, that you have it and are just a little wiser than you think they are. Yeah, it definitely makes a difference.
Amanda Hammett: 20:18
It does. So I'd like to switch gears just a little bit and I'd like to talk about, you mentioned this briefly earlier, but I'd like to talk about those career development conversations.
Ralph Barsi: 20:31
Sure.
Amanda Hammett: 20:32
When do you start having them? How often do you have them? What walk us through, what, what that looks like for you.
Ralph Barsi: 20:39
You start having them at the very beginning of the relationship. So for leaders on the front line, for example, with sales reps or sales development reps, it's important to earmark a one on one per month or per quarter. I recommend maybe once a quarter where we actually talk about, you know, personal and professional development. A lot of the other one on one should focus on day to day operation, et Cetera and getting to the goal. But early in the relationship, you know, have the rep do a self-assessment, have them talk about and literally write down, they could share what they'd like or just share excerpts of this exercise because it's personal. But what are your short term, midterm, and long term goals? How do you define short term versus midterm versus long term? Short term could be two to four weeks for some people you know, or they could be six to 12 months.
Ralph Barsi: 21:34
It's important to identify what they mean by short, mid and longterm. Because a lot of sales development reps, six to eight months into the GIG, they're approaching their leaders asking about getting promoted and it's way premature. It's way too early. There's still a lot more development and experience and time that needs to pass in order for them to incubate if you will, and really become masters of the role they're in and add way more value in future roles. So identify what those time frames are and then ask the person in this self-assessment, hey, who do you admire in the world professionally or personally? Who do you want to emulate? Tell us why. What characteristics or attributes to those people illustrate on a regular basis that you want to model that's going to give the leader a really good understanding of, you know, how this person ticks what this person likes, dislikes, what they're trying to accomplish or who they're aspiring to become.
Ralph Barsi: 22:35
Another thing in the assessment is, and there's really, there are four questions. It's like, you know, what are your career aspirations? Short, mid, long. Who Do you admire? Who do you want to emulate? That's number two. Number three is what do you need to learn and work on to get where your going and then lastly, how can our company, how can me, how? How can we, how can I, how can others around you really help you get from here to there and you'll realize more often than not that, like you said, college students coming into the workplace. They have no idea what north is to them or where they want to be in five years or why they want to be there. A lot of people, especially in the sales world, they'll come in and go, I just want to make money. I want to make a ton of money.
Ralph Barsi: 23:21
Okay, well that's a trigger then for the leader to ask. Awesome. That's fabulous. Let's fast forward. Let's say the stars have aligned and you've earned all the money that you want to earn. What are you going to do with it? Now the leader's going to get a really good understanding of is this a person who's trying to care for alien parents? Because if somebody who wants to get married, do they want to invest in properties? Do they want to run their own business someday? Do they want to donate to a charity? And you know, put forward a philanthropic effort to do better in the world. Once they've got that money discussion aside, they can really get to the root cause of why they want the money in the first place, right? So I highly recommend doing those assessments, sharing them very, very early on and then doing, you know, periodically start, stop, continue exercises, Amanda, you need to start doing A, B, C you're not getting out there and networking enough. You're not on the phones enough. You're not falling on your face giving yourself enough experiences where you have to get back up again and dust yourself off. So do that. Here's where I think you need to stop doing. Here's what you need to continue doing because you're awesome at it. Like, let's get after it, let's go get it. And I think discussions like that pretty simple, not that difficult to have they just need to happen and they need to be put on the calendar to happen or they will not take place.
Amanda Hammett: 24:43
I think that that's, that is a really good point. They need to be on the calendar and almost like a standing appointment quarterly or monthly or however you do it. Because they're so easy to get, Oh, you know what, I've got to take care of this. And they're so easy to get pushed aside and then you don't ever do it. But especially in that early career, things are shifting and they're learning so much about themselves as who they want to be as a professional, who they want to be as a person, where they want to go. That that is shifting and changing and evolving quickly, much more quickly than at other points in your career that the leader really needs to be there to kind of develop and guide that. And if you're not doing it, you don't know and you're losing them basically
Ralph Barsi: 25:27
100% oh and keep in mind, as we just talked about, most of the people that are coming into the sales development world are recent graduates. So what does that mean? They have been on a schedule for their entire life. That's like semester-based. You know, they finish a class, it's onto the next class. They get graded in that class and they move forward after one year they go to the next grade. And so they've been on this cadence their entire life and they come into a company and a company is like, oh dude, you're not getting promoted for like two years. That is an unbelievable news to them. And they really have to adapt and you know, recalibrate how they're approaching their day to day work because they're just not used to that. So create an academy so that as soon as they come in, they understand that there are six month time frames where they're going to learn A and they're going to learn B, then they're going to learn C and over those six months timeframes they're going to be graded in this academy, for example, at service now we have a global sales development academy that's broken into guessing what?
Ralph Barsi : 26:34
Six-month chunks and we call it liftoff, launch an orbit, and by the time you're in the final six months or even a six month period after that, you're learning the competencies that are going to make you successful in the next role. So you're learning about the t's and C's of contracts. You're learning negotiation with high-level executives and committees who are making decisions at big companies. You're learning how the legal process works when lawyers red line clauses in a contract and what that means. You're learning about the time that it really takes to close a deal, especially in our world, in the SAS B2B world, selling into the enterprise sales cycles could be two years long. So you have to understand all the components and mechanics of moving a deal over the line. There's a lot of studying that needs to happen, and so we incorporate that into our academy.
Ralph Barsi : 27:33
Secondly, we talked about this at the very beginning of our call today. Mentoring is critical. You have to have a coach or a teacher that's not the direct manager that can have those offline conversations with you. How are things going? Hey, if Amanda shows up like this, don't take it too seriously. This is probably why she's responding like this. Instead, focus on this. So we built a global sales development mentorship program here as well, where we have account executives and solution consultants and people from other business functions volunteering to mentor our Account Development Reps. It's a two-way street. The arts have to put, frankly, more skin in the game because what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it, right? But nonetheless, relationships are created that last way beyond the mentorship program. You make friends in the process and people that you'll probably lean on throughout your career. So it's a joy to watch, but it's so important to share that with other leaders that may not have stuff like that in place in their own organizations.
Amanda Hammett: 28:38
Absolutely. And I think that for some reason I think mentoring programs have, you know, they were put into place for a lot of companies, but they were in a lot of ways I feel over-managed. They were very, they were too systematized and it didn't allow for that organic growth of what that individual needs. And you know, what they can do together as a mentor, mentee. You know, I worked with one company and it was just very like, okay, on this meeting you talk about x on this meeting, you talk about why. And I'm like, but that's not what she needs. So what is your philosophy when you're mentoring someone? Let's say that you want to mentor me and that would be great. And I'm just, what would be your philosophy forgetting that relationship going and how would you judge on what do we need to talk about? What do we need to work on?
Ralph Barsi : 29:29
Sure. We would, you and I would first need to establish, okay, Amanda, how are we going to communicate with one another? Is it going to be like this where we're looking at each other, right? et Cetera, et cetera. How often are we going to communicate? I'm extremely busy. I'm sure you are too. So to avoid and mitigate any, you know, email, tennis back and forth, trying to figure out dates and times when you write to me, be very specific. Yes. Give me multiple-choice questions that I can just tick the box on and we can move forward. Let's see. Be Mindful of your writing. So if you're, if we agree that we're okay with texting one another, again, ask a question in the text so that it evokes a response. Otherwise, it's just information for me to read. When you're emailing me, made sure, you know, just like we tell sales development reps when they're prospecting into big accounts, you know, have a subject line that tells me what this email is about.
Ralph Barsi : 30:36
Make a brief, concise, break up your paragraphs, get into the detail of, of writing. You talked about, hey look, there's a lot of companies out there and I couldn't agree more that systematize this and that. It's very robotic if you will. However, if you really want to elicit that organic relationship, it's okay to preface a form that you're going to send the mentor and the mentee. If you're the owner of a mentorship program and you might want to say, hey, here are some guidelines that we've seen work in the past for people who are having a hard time getting started. You may want to do this, you may want to do that versus do this, do that and let people kind of figure it out on their own. Those are just a couple tips. Again, this is another one we could talk about all day.
Amanda Hammett: 31:22
It is, and unfortunately we are coming to an end of our time and I feel like we need to have a part two for this and start this whole conversation on mentoring because it is such an important part of developing particularly young talent, but I think it's valuable across across the entire employee life cycle. But Ralph, I want to thank you so much. This has been incredibly insightful. I took lots of notes today, but I want to thank you so much for sharing and being willing to share with others you.
Ralph Barsi : 31:54
It's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Amanda. I'm always open to a part two. If you want to pin that on the calendar, we'll make it happen.
Amanda Hammett: 32:03
I'm going to take you off on that. All right, well thank you guys so much for joining us with Ralph Barsi today on the next generation rock stars podcast and we will see you in the very next episode.
Amanda Hammett: 32:14
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret. Share this episode with the, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.
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Long term profitability and viability are not driven by your strategy or your technology. It is driven by your people. If you are looking for long term profitability and viability, take care of your people. Learn from Travis Dommert, Jackson Healthcare on how investing in your people will drive profitability for your company.
Travis Dommert is the Talent Development Executive at Jackson Healthcare. Jackson Healthcare is creating an unparalleled environment where great companies thrive. It fosters companies that are preferred partners and employers of choice, all while doing meaningful work and impacting communities locally as well as around the world.
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The Transcript - How Developing Talent Adds to Your Bottom Line Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
All right. This week's episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars podcast, we talk about developing talent, specifically a lot about developing leaders, and I get this question a lot. I'm always asked, you know why? Why should I spend more money to develop my people? Why should I invest to give them skills so that they can leave me? And I always feel like that's such a short-sided way to see developing your talent because first and foremost, we know that next-generation talent if you're not developing them, they're gonna leave and go somewhere where they can be developed. That is one of the big things that they're looking for, but even further than that is Travis Dommert from Jackson Healthcare shares with us in this particular interview is that it's so important to specifically develop your leaders to really pour into them because they can make or break the employee experience for the rest of your employees. So tune in. I hope you take lots of notes and meet Travis Dommert from Jackson Healthcare.
Amanda Hammett: 01:16
Hey, and welcome to this episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars podcast. I have a super amazing episode today. I have Travis Dommert from Jackson healthcare. Welcome, Travis.
Travis Dommert: 01:28
Hey Amanda. How are you?
Amanda Hammett: 01:30
Doing Super well. So you are in Atlanta and I was looking at all these great places to work lists and I was like, man, I'm going to showcase somebody from Atlanta. And so I reached out to you. So thanks for agreeing to be on the show.
Travis Dommert: 01:4
Oh, it's awesome to be with you. And you're right. It's rare that you find somebody like in your own backyard to talk to that, you know, maybe could, could be a local expert. So, um, I'll do my best.
Amanda Hammett: 01:55
Perfect. Well, I know you're going to do awesome. So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you really quick?
Travis Dommert: 02:01
You know, I think about the different hats that I wear and um, you know, I start the day, each day as a husband. So I've been married for about 17 years, coming up on 18 this year, and then dad a have five kids and so they're all school-aged and life is really full on that side, you know, and then I go to work every day and I get to work at an absolutely amazing place. I'm at Jackson Healthcare, as you said, and I've got a dream job. My responsibility is for talent acquisition and learning and development and it's getting to kind of live out a professional and life passion that I discovered way too late in life. But I'm just glad I found it. Nonetheless, I started out in engineering and ended up working with people but all rooted in the same idea, which is I'd like to know how things work. It's just, I didn't realize until years after business school that I'm learning how people work would be so fascinating.
Amanda Hammett: 02:59
That's a really cool little movement on your career because a lot of people go into engineering thinking, this is my path for life. But that was a very interesting movie made I'm kind of curious, could you tell us a little bit more about what encouraged that move?
Travis Dommert: 03:14
Sure. You know, ultimately it was I think trying to be successful. So I started out in truly hardcore engineering. It was manufacturing engineering and I could say I didn't fall in love with like a machine shop floor. And I thought deep down, like I really, I love cars, I'm passionate about cars and airplanes and so I got to go to work in the design center at Ford Ford Motor Company when I was in college and it was really cool. The only thing that was troubling was I also grew up outside of Dallas, Texas and I thought, I want to live back in the south.
Travis Dommert: 03:50
And they were very candid. They were like, you know, all roads in the auto industry, in the United States, all kinds of left back here. And so that caused me to pause and just think, you know, what else might I be interested in? And at the time it was taking off. So I pursued a career in IT consulting, which eventually led me to implement software and systems and realizing that there were some keys to successful implementations. And namely, it was that it actually had the backing and the buy-in of the user. And if you made the user's life better and you somehow help them succeed, then maybe your software project would work. And if somehow you, even if you had the most amazing software, if what your software did was make our client look or feel dumb, funny how they'd have a really hard time supporting it and learning to use it. And so we started realizing like, wow, people are really at the core of how everything works. How do we get people on board with what we're trying to do? How do we help people grow? And anyway, several career Epiphanes later I ended up working 100% in the people business, which is in staffing and then eventually in HR and development.
Amanda Hammett: 05:01
I love this little journey that you took and I think it was a really important multiple steps along the way. Where you woke up and you saw these little Ahas and then they've all added together. I know that in my career I've had multiple Aha moments as well that have brought me to where I am. So that's fascinating. So in all of this journey that you've taken so far, I would imagine that you have had the experience of multiple different types of leadership. So how did that experience shape your own leadership style?
Travis Dommert: 05:32
That's a really good question. yeah, we actually do an exercise at the kickoff of our leadership program here at Jackson Healthcare and one of those exercises is for people to just think about the best person they ever worked for and write down an adjective or an attribute or a characteristic of that person on a little post-it notes and then we go put them on the wall. But we group them into four areas and is their IQ. And another one is their emotional intelligence or how they made you feel. Another one is their subject matter expertise. And then we've got like the other bucket. If you can't figure out which three of those go into, you put it over there. And Gosh, the first time I did that exercise several years ago, you know, I immediately thought about one person who I worked for who always had a smile, always asked how I was doing.
Travis Dommert: 06:23
Would always thank me, like at the end of every day or every week, like, thanks so much. You know, so glad you're here. And he said it more in probably the first six months I worked for him that every other person I'd ever worked for combined. Wow. And I thought, you know, we went through really hard times. In fact, I worked for him in 2008 as the bottom fell out in the market. And you know, the last thing I would ever do would be to do something that would hurt him. Like I wanted him to be successful. I want it to make the company successful. And anyway, you know, I've, I've experienced a lot of people with other styles. And somewhere the undercurrent was, however, it looked, however, it felt, whether they were charismatic and extroverted or they were quiet and technical, you can tell are they for you or are they for them? And if their thoughts and actions felt like you were there to help them achieve whatever it is they were trying to do, it wasn't as great of a, you know, experience. So anyway, that's really informed a lot of how we do things here throughout our company.
Amanda Hammett: 07:32
I love that experience that you had. I mean, I know that anytime you have experience with a leader who is just like, you feel like a cog in the wheel, they don't make you feel human. The last thing you want to do is give your all. And so this guy obviously showed that he cared about you and he thought that you were important and what you were contributing was important and he made you feel like human. You had that human to human connection that we're all hard wired looking for. Yeah. That is amazing. Yeah. So I'm guessing this is a kind of leader that you would have run through walls for.
Travis Dommert: 08:06
Right, absolutely. And you know, it's interesting that we're talking about next generation leaders. And I think this is really relevant because when I look at the next generation leader is somebody who's relatively early in their career, they haven't had a lot of bosses yet. They haven't had a lot of maybe, career, experience, but most importantly, they haven't gone through a lot of hard times yet. Where a job just stinks.
Amanda Hammett: 08:30
Yes.
Travis Dommert: 08:30
And every job is called a job, you know, for reason. There's work, there are parts of it that are just hard. And if you feel like somebody has for you, it can really change the nature of that really hard thing to something like, this is something that we have to do, I've got to solve this problem as opposed to, this isn't any fun anymore. And I think the best thing for me is to, you know, hit the road. So anyway, I think it makes people incredibly more resilient as well as grateful and ultimately more successful.
Amanda Hammett: 09:02
I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. You know, in my own consulting practice, I have found when I brought in, been brought into a company and I go in and I'll interview people that have left, why did you really leave? Why did you really leave 94% say their boss, direct boss? You can't argue with that number. It's just the way it is.
Travis Dommert: 09:22
Yeah. And that insight is really what's driven the last like two years of my career here at Jackson and I moved from one of our operating businesses into corporate HR and was really looking for, okay, in an internal HR department, what is the number that really matters? Like what is the metric that we're trying to move? And we have a wonderful company and we've got a relatively low turnover for our industry, but nonetheless, we still lose people who we don't want to lose.
Amanda Hammett: 09:50
Of course. Yes.
Travis Dommert: 09:52
And anyway, predominantly they you know, they leave when they either have some falling out or they just don't feel cared for. They're not set up to succeed. And so as we were working on our leadership program, you know, I kind of kick it off this way. I tell people, look, you don't have to be the greatest boss ever. This is good news. As the boss, as the leader, you just have to not suck because if it sucks to work for you, I'm going to, I'm going to look elsewhere. But you need, you do need to know what it's like to be a bad boss. And so a lot of the program, I mean, yes, we want it to be great, But the big thing is like understand how to not be bad.
Amanda Hammett: 10:33
Yeah, absolutely.
Travis Dommert: 10:36
Sometimes it just makes it a little easier. They're like, okay, I don't have to be perfect. I don't have to be the perfect presenter. I don't have to be the most brilliant strategists. So I have to help. I have to have people feel that I care for them. What's, I have to know what it's like to be on the other side of me. And anyway, so a lot of it's about the soft skills.
Amanda Hammett: 10:56
A hundred percent when I'm coaching those young early in careers, I'm always like, look for a good boss. Good bosses will make or break your first job every time. So, okay. Now you already talked a little bit about this, but I really want to deep dive into this a little bit more. Do you ever feel pressure as you've moved up the ranks in HR? Do you ever feel pressure from the board or higher-ups from you to really, hey Travis, don't focus on the people. Focus on the numbers. That's what we need to move. Do you ever get that pressure and how do you respond to it?
Travis Dommert: 11:31
Yeah, I have. I have not had that pressure here because there is a deep end sort of fundamental belief that the people do drive the numbers. That the numbers are a lagging indicator of highly engaged people who are equipped to be successful, who feel appreciated and engaged in their work and who are committed. And, and there's even more beyond that because we, you know, we know research shows that if you want somebody to be highly committed to their work, it's more important that they understand who they are than that they understand who you are. So all the way from the top down, it's about are we helping people really understand who they are, how their job matters. How this, this job and the things that we do impact them, their community. I mean it's very, very missional. And it's very aligned to people.
Travis Dommert: 12:17
That being said, that's why I'm here. I have worked elsewhere where we had a very explicit conversation, with someone who said, make no mistake. You are here to make money. If you cease to make money, you cease to have a purpose. You're also here to make it as much money as I believe you're capable of. So if for some reason I think you're not giving your all, even if you make more than somebody else, that's not good enough. If you are not delivering as much as I think you can, then essentially you're stealing from me. And I was given permission, fire any person that you feel is not giving 100% because that's what he's paying for like a hundred percent of them. And that's if they cashed that check and they don't give 100%, they're stealing fire them. And it was one of those painful realizations that I think we're on a fundamentally different wavelength, you know, so you've worked at communicating through it, you know, tried to really make a business case. And I think a business case can definitely be made if you really, really care about money, care about your people. If you want to make major profits you have to at least at times take a long-term perspective. Gosh, short term thinking and focusing on profit, and not paying attention to what drives it. Yeah. It's so ironic that it can just kill a company. Kills a team.
Amanda Hammett: 13:48
Yes. And you see it all the time. All the time. Now let's talk a little, let's switch gears a little bit and talk about this next generation of talent. Millennials, Gen z, are now matriculating into the workforce. How have you seen them change and influence the workplace?
Travis Dommert: 14:09
So one caveat and my only caveat is that we don't really speak the generational language here. So we don't refer to millennials. We don't refer to Gen z on a daily basis. I absolutely understand that generations are influenced by the context in which they grew up and the stuff their parents were going through when they were young and things like that. So I'm not saying that it's not a real thing. I think there are parts of it that are the real thing, but essentially I would say, young people.
Amanda Hammett: 14:41
Yes, absolutely.
Travis Dommert: 14:43
But 200 years ago, we're still visionary, excited and enthusiastic. Possibly, you know, impatient, young people and anyway.
Amanda Hammett: 14:55
Have on older generations even then.
Travis Dommert: 14:57
That's right. And they want, you know, everybody wondered, are they ever gonna buckle down or are they ever gonna whatever, you know, you fill in the blank.
Amanda Hammett: 15:05
Yeah.
Travis Dommert: 15:05
So, anyway, that being said, do I see value? Do I see an impact of the younger people in our company versus those of us who are now getting a little bit farther along? Absolutely. And it's just, it's energy. It's an absolute demand for authenticity. Yes. Um, because they're so connected because they're so tech-savvy, because they're, I won't say fearless. Some of them are definitely not fearless, but at least more willing to leave because they believe that you're a hypocrite or go online and tell everybody, you know, they can hop on Glassdoor, Yelp, whatever, Facebook, wherever it is, and just say, this place is just full of liars.
Amanda Hammett: 15:51
Yeah, absolutely.
Travis Dommert: 15:52
Then it raises the bar, you know, it raises the bar for behavior, for sticking to your values, for whatever you think you know is right. You better be doing it every day if you screw up. That happens. I mean, we screw up all the time. I screwed up, but it's like, you better be the first one to say, hey, that was my bad. What else? I don't know. I think the other thing is collaborative and so I had a very young team a couple of years ago and it just wasn't acceptable to say, okay, this is what we're going to do. It was like, wait a minute, we haven't talked about that. Can you really help us bring us along? Like where did you come to this decision? Were there conversations behind the scenes? It's funny, I thought behind the scenes sounded so negative and then I started to realize, no, they might use it.
Travis Dommert: 16:41
They may say it like, Hey Travis, we actually had a conversation behind the scenes. And here's what we talked about and here's what we think is the right thing. But even behind the scenes was like somewhat transparent. Like, Hey, we talked about you when you weren't here.
Amanda Hammett: 16:54
Absolutely.
Travis Dommert: 16:55
We're just telling you, you know, we think we've got to slow down and go back and get everybody's input on this. Okay. You know it. And what I found was, Gosh, you take just even a moment, take 10 minutes at the end of a meeting, or five minutes at the front of the meeting or something and be more collaborative. And the changes had a tendency to last and just people would buy in. So people will start telling me why this is really important. I'm like, yeah. All right.
Amanda Hammett: 17:24
Absolutely. Well, I mean, when they're part of the process, they're there. Think more like owners and so there's more responsibility when you're an owner.
Travis Dommert: 17:32
Yup. They're going to buy it.
Amanda Hammett: 17:34
Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about the recruiting process. I know that you are heading up some talent acquisitions. So how are, you know, next generation, how are you guys going after that younger generation in the workforce?
Travis Dommert: 17:48
Yeah, a sort of two-prong strategy. Most of the people who come to work here are through referral and that's fantastic. I'd love that to be everybody. With one exception and that is that, you know, nobody knows everybody. Even though collectively we might, we could definitely miss out on amazing talent and people, you know, they move to places like Atlanta. We have, you know, I'm not a transient city, but we definitely have a flux of new talent who comes in and, um, so anyway, for those folks then we're trying to, you know, be intentional in reaching out digitally. But the number one thing is making sure that people know about what opportunities exist here. That they, that it's easy to refer people. You know, we track our referral metrics probably as closely or more closely than we do, you know, some of our other marketing and recruitment activity.
Travis Dommert: 18:40
So those are probably the two primary channels. Um, and then the other thing you know is actually just doing good. The company has done good for a long, long time, but it was only a few years ago that they actually started, um, capturing videos and sharing stories internally about the amazing things that our associates were doing in the community. And the idea was like, oh, hey everybody, did you know that this team did this? And it was kind of a feel good thing internally. Well that was the very first thing people turned around and they started posting externally.
Amanda Hammett: 19:14
Yes.
Travis Dommert: 19:16
And it's so amazing because it ended up changing really almost our whole brand strategy. It would be much more around market intelligence about what's going on in healthcare, what physicians think. And now it's much more about, it's absolutely missional that Jackson Healthcare is about having a positive impact on people in the world. And how do we improve the lives of everyone we touch. And so when you get to share story after story, now suddenly we have people coming to us saying, I don't care what job it is, I would like to work there because you believe in what I believe in.
Amanda Hammett: 19:50
Absolutely. That is awesome. I love that story. I would love to actually dig some of those videos up and share them myself. That's pretty amazing stuff.
Travis Dommert: 20:00
Yeah, go to our youtube channel. There's a bunch of them out there now. They're awesome.
Amanda Hammett: 20:03
Wonderful. So let's talk a little bit about, the learning and development, because I know through my own experience, through season one of this podcast, all these high performing millennials, they always said, you know, I need to be able to stretch. I need to consistently learn. So how are you guys feeding that need for knowledge?
Travis Dommert: 20:24
Well, yeah, it's pretty insatiable. And that was an interesting fact that I picked up at a seminar event earlier this year was that you know, the number one desire of, and this particular event, they said millennials, but I would say again, next-generation leaders, was learning. So we do that in a number of ways. Traditionally we had like curated curriculum. So we've got classrooms here. Everybody has access to take classes and they are encouraged. They're put on career paths where it's like, okay, these are the six classes that you should take this year and next year in the year after and whatever. And so Jackson Healthcare University helps fill that need internally for our folks. But I was looking, you know, we've maybe offered 30 different classes in the last 10 years and now you look online, it's a massive learning platforms and you realize, okay, there are also thousands more.
Travis Dommert: 21:19
And now, you know, we're trying to tap into that. So for the last two years, we've been developing a partnership with linkedin learning. Have a sense linkedin bought Lynda. Um, and so now that's another channel. We encourage people for more real-time and continuous learning, microlearning. If somebody brings something up in a one-on-one, you know, you're a quick search away from saying, Oh wow, maybe got to watch this. We're using something called tone networks. Um, that's a little bit more focused on women in leadership and development. That's, that's curated for them. And then we also anybody who gets to the point of managing another person, um, it doesn't matter what your age is. Then you're going to go through our leadership program and that's a really awesome immersive experience. And right now we're putting every single leader in our company through this three months program, which has been terrific.
Amanda Hammett: 22:20
That's pretty cool. So what would you say has been the benefit of developing your people?
Travis Dommert: 22:30
I think it's becoming part of the culture. I mean, I think the end benefit that that company would see and that, that we will be measuring, ultimately it's going to impact tenure and it's going to impact performance. But the way it looks is that people are grateful. People are building relationships. They're just more effective day to day. So they spend more time actually delivering value to whoever they work with or for, and they spend less time in conflict. And not surprisingly, we don't actually make anything right. You know, like many companies today, we're a service business, so we build relationships. Most of our learning and training is about, okay, how do you deal with humans? And by the way, you are one, you know, it's messy.
Travis Dommert: 23:23
So I tell people on their very first day of work, you know, it's a matter of minutes. I hope it's hours or days, but it might be minutes before somebody hurts your feelings or worse, you hurt someone's feelings. So what are you going to do then? And the temptation is going to be, I'm going to quit. Like I'm going to get rid of the bad boss or the bad teammate or whatever. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not, that's actually not what you should do. If you really value learning and growing and being a better person, here are some tools, here are some techniques and when you lean into that rocky relationship or those misspoken words and you do it effectively, you end up becoming closer. And so now this person you thought you wanted to get rid of, you actually love them a little bit because you see their words and you know and suddenly you're closer. And so I think the other benefit is people are just closer. Like I see more hugs and tears here than any place ever by far that I've ever been. Somewhere along the way I know that has business value because I know that they're learning the same things to develop relationships and help people outside the company.
Amanda Hammett: 24:33
Yeah. You want to build a community among the people that you work with day in and day out. That's awesome. I love to hear the tears and the laughter and all that good stuff. That's what I listen for when I'm observing at companies. I'm walking around them listening like what are the conversations like? What's the tenor of the conversation? Is there laughter? Are they talking outside of just work talk? And that's one of my judges of like, okay, this is, I know it's weird, but for me it's about building community and are these employees enjoying being together? So yes.
Travis Dommert: 25:07
Yeah. We actually, we joke about there being a tier quota. We don't get enough people crying, you know, we're not doing our jobs. They're just, we're not reaching them. And let's, let's all stop being fake here. We've got to get down to what do you really, really care about? And man, when you get somebody who can't talk, you're like, okay, we got there with you.
Amanda Hammett: 25:30
I love this. I'm the tier quota. Okay.
Travis Dommert: 25:34
Don't let that out.
Amanda Hammett: 25:38
So Travis, what would you give, what piece of advice would you give to a first-time leader? This is their very first time leading people. What would you do to set them up to succeed?
Travis Dommert: 25:49
I would give them the advice we start a lot of our programs with, which is that there may be some of this job as a leader that you like. And there may be some of it that you don't like. There may be days when you feel good on, there may be days that you feel bad. Don't worry about any of that. If you're going to play the role of leader, it's not about you. So don't worry about your style. Don't worry about how you look. Don't worry about what you sound like. It's not about you. If you will look at what do people need from you and you offer that to them. They need encouragement. They need direction, they need support, they need love, they need forgiveness, they need purpose. If you just keep asking yourself whether you've never let anybody or you're really seasoned what does this person need me and try to offer that up. Okay. I think nine times out of 10, you're going to be successful.
Amanda Hammett: 26:51
That is such a fantastic answer and honestly, I can't think of any better way to end this episode. So Travis, thank you so much for joining us today.
Travis Dommert: 26:59
Awesome. Thanks, Amanda.
Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: 27:02
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
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Having skills and experiences listed on a resume doesn't mean that an employee is going to be successful. In our quickly changing market were what was in fact only 6 months ago has changed drastically; resourcefulness is far more important to have.
Kat Cole is the COO and President, North America at FOCUS Brands. Focus Brands is an American company that is an affiliate of the American private equity firm, Roark Capital Group, that currently owns the Schlotzsky's, Carvel, Cinnabon, Moe's Southwest Grill, McAlister's Deli, Auntie Anne's and Jamba brands.
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The Transcript - Why Resourcefulness is Better Than Experience Welcome to the Next Generation Rock Stars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:14
Hi, this is mean to him and it at the millennial translator and today I have a super amazing and just chock full of information interview for you. I had Kat Cole who is the COO and president of North America for focus brands on the show and on the show she talks about so much information that I really think that you need a notebook before you started and on this episode or if you're listening while you commute, you're going to definitely want to come back and listen to this one a second, maybe even a third time because it is just that chock full of information. In fact, she might even want to teach a leadership class for MBA students. It isn't that good. So hope you're tuning in and we will talk to you soon.
Amanda Hammett: 00:54
Hi, this is Amanda Hammett and today we have a very special guest for next-generation rock stars. Her name is Kat Cole and she is the COO and president of North America for focus brands. Now you may not be aware of focus brands, but I know that you know their products, things like Cinnabon and Auntie Anne's and Jamba juice just to name a few. So Kat, welcome to the show.
Kat Cole: 01:17
Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: 01:18
All right, so Kat, tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
Kat Cole: 01:21
Sure. I run a large company called the focus that is a franchise or in license or of some of the world's most famous food franchises from the fun for you indulgent brands like Cinnabon and Carvel to the lunch and dinner brands, kind of more family concepts like Moe's and McAlister's and Schlotzky's all the way to the healthier side of the spectrum with Jamba Juice. I've grown up in this business since or versions of it since I was 17 years old. I started out, uh, as a hostess at Hooter's restaurants. I became a waitress at 18. At 19. I started opening franchises around the world. By 26, I was vice president of the company doing 800 million in revenue, help grow the company around the world, which was an amazing experience. And then left to become president of Cinnabon at the age of 31 and helped turn that company around out of the recession, grew it into a really fantastic global multichannel brand, and then moved up as the company grew and became group president of the licensing division.
Kat Cole: 02:34
And then the role that I've had for the last two years, as president and COO of the company. I am a mom of an 18-month-old. I am almost six months pregnant with my second, married the love of my life several years ago. And so just sort of like many people juggling it all. But part of my role is I manage presidents, the president's report to me in the company. But the way we build businesses is by hiring talent that is, it's seriously multigenerational. And so I get to not only have, I typically am the youngest person in the room at almost every stage of my career, but really get to see and experience and mentor and develop people of all generations and certainly the largest influx of those being a millennial and Gen z and to various positions and levels throughout the company. So excited to cover this topic.
Amanda Hammett: 03:34
That is awesome. I'm so excited. So let's backtrack a little bit on your history real quick. You mentioned opening international franchises at the age of 19. That is an awful lot of responsibility for a 19-year-old and a lot of people would probably be like, that was a crazy decision, but I think it worked out well for Hooters. I think that they made a good call there. But you also open multiple, you know, new franchises in new countries and new cultures. And I would imagine that that did something to your leadership style because you were working with one group one month and then six weeks later, a completely new group. What did that teach you in that process?
Kat Cole: 04:17
What's interesting is when you, when you are traveling to a new place with a new culture and a new team, what you learn very quickly, what I learned very quickly is that I was the only common denominator. And so if things went well consistently, I could probably take some credit for those things going consistently well. But if things were not going well consistently in an area, I probably also needed to take responsibility and realize that likely had something to do with me. And the first time I opened a franchise when I was 19 and I was in Australia certain things went wrong, but a lot went right that certain things went wrong. And I thought, oh, well that's just because the concept is new. Well, that's just because, they don't know. And then the next country I would have a similar observation.
Kat Cole: 05:17
And then the third, you know, on the third country, which was actually also the third continent, I realized, you know, there's probably something I could do differently to create a different outcome. So that was the first thing is that that experience was a brutal yet beautiful leadership mirror that most people don't ever experience because they get comfortable. People learn your style. They say, well, oh, that's just her, right, that she doesn't mean that people learn you and you learn them. And so you can get away with having less than stellar leadership behaviors and communication skills. That's awesome because people give you room. They learned that you're pretty much a good person and so they figure it out. But when you have to be amazing over and over and over again with teams you've never met, it really does sharpen the skills of building trust and communication and giving clear direction and building teams.
Amanda Hammett: 06:15
Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about that idea of building trust because that is something that I see as an underlying issue in almost any company I go into consult with or talk to or anything, is that they take it, they make the assumption that they have it, but they don't always have it. So what does trust look like for you today in a working environment?
Kat Cole: 06:39
You know, I think it's, I don't know that it's changed much over time. Certainly, there are some fundamentals. Yes. One is people feeling safe. Yes. And whether that psychological safety or emotional safety or physical safety, um, but the underlying belief that at a minimum I'm not at risk, you know, that they, that I'm safe is important. And in I think that might be a nuance that is more prominent in today's world than maybe a decade or two decades ago.
Kat Cole: 07:21
And so that's one foundational component. The other is that I understand and can anticipate in general things that are going to happen, set another way. People around me do what they say they're going to do. And so, and that's also connected to psychological safety. Because I believe I'm not putting myself at risk because you've given me evidence that I can depend on or rely on or use the word trust, you or the environment or, or what is said. And so that's the second component. The third is just this element of care. And one of the ways when I was opening stores around the world that I learned to build, to build trust was I would bring donuts and coffee. And that may seem silly and it's not being. It was, it was demonstrating through my actions that I thought of the team, um, first thing in the morning.
Amanda Hammett: 08:27
Yes.
Kat Cole: 08:27
I didn't have to show up and say, hey everyone, I thought of you today, right? I showed up early, I got the restaurant ready, I brought coffee and donuts. That alone says I care about you. I'm thinking of you. I don't want you to be distracted because you're hungry. I want you to be delighted because there's a surprise for you. So all of those things are incredibly important in building trust.
Amanda Hammett: 08:51
Absolutely. And that one small act actually I'm sure, showed your employees, hey, she doesn't just say she cares about me. She actually does. And this is how she demonstrates it. So I think that's wonderful. So why don't you share with the audience your general idea? You don't have to get into the nuts and bolts of it. But the general idea around developing next-generation talent.
Kat Cole: 09:12
I think there are a few pieces that are important in developing next-generation talent. One is being candid with, um, with them to make sure they see and understand any behaviors that they might be displaying that are distracting from their potential. So it's just, it's candor and that helps someone learn lessons sooner than they otherwise would through longer and more painful processes and mistakes. So that's one way I think about developing the next generation of talent. So it's the, what can you do for yourself and then what can I do or what can we do for you? So on the, what can you do, are you self aware? Yeah. And if you're self-aware, are you then also aware of how to address it? So if something you're doing or saying is, is problematic or suboptimal or holding you back or unintentionally distracting from your professionalism, if you acknowledge it, do you know what the counter behaviors are to address it?
Kat Cole: 10:30
So that's a big first step, helping next-generation talent. The second is on the, what can I do, what can we do? So, giving them exposure to many unique learning opportunities, bring them into a piece of a meeting so they can see it and get perspective. Challenge them to do research on other areas of the business that round out their mindset and their perspective around the business. Put them with new teams regularly so that they have to feel, uncomfortable in a productive way because that builds confidence. Yes. So drives learning. And then the third piece is literally giving people a chance not haphazardly. I have a business to run. I have investors and franchisees and I can't randomly stick people in positions, but certainly when I see potential, if I've given them exposure, if they are very self-aware, if they're good learners and they're comfortable with iterating their behaviors, they deserve a shot.
Kat Cole: 11:39
I mean, I was opening restaurants at 19. I was a vice president at 26. A lot of people gave me a chance and you can't remove that piece from the equation. But I was also a calculated risk. They gave me a chance, but I, so many behaviors that suggested that even if I didn't know something, I would have the grit, the resilience, the resourcefulness to figure it out. So when you see people like that, no matter the generation, whether they're much older or much younger, give them a shot because it's better to have someone like that in a role than someone you just think has the experience but isn't resourceful and isn't scrappy and get stuck very easily. And in today's environment with such dynamic shifts happening in every sector, resourcefulness is a far more valued skill than experience, purely because it's really more important to have the right questions than the right answers. Because if you had the right answers for six months ago, they're not right today, most likely. So those are some approaches that I take to developing the next generation of talent.
Amanda Hammett: 12:49
That's amazing. I mean, that's just, I think that that's what every young employee needs to be looking for is a leader who is thinking the way that you're thinking. And I, I appreciate that and I love that. I'd like to pivot just for a quick second. I still speak at the university and college level frequently. Um, and one of the things that I see and hear and experience from them is this anxiety around their career path and having it all figured out. And I would say that your path has been, nontraditional and I love it and I think that it's something that should be celebrated. But I'd like for you to tell our younger listeners about, about your path.
Kat Cole: 13:36
Sure. So one I agree, I do a lot of speaking with colleges and universities and I sense the same thing from men and women. We're a little more with women but I don't know that it's a new dynamic. I'm assuming that people who have sort of matriculated through college and they're nearing graduation I would, no, I dropped out of college when I was 20, but, that they start to feel a lot of pressure for what am I going to turn this education into, especially if they are in premiere or Ivy League schools. And there is a tremendous amount of the perfection paradox being around people. Um, and so, um, so for me, my story as one of many examples out there of non-traditional pads, you know, I grew up as the child of a single parent.
Kat Cole: 14:42
We left my dad, he was an alcoholic. I helped raise my sisters. I was the first person in my family to ever get into college. I was electrical engineering and computer sciences, major psychology of women minor and then, but I had to work to pay for school debt or loans wasn't even a topic. It wasn't even available. I mean I know some people had them, but I didn't have access to it and so I had to work to pay for everything outright. And that was working in restaurants, as a lot of students do. One out of two actually. And so what was unique is that I really was so proud that I was the first person in my family to get into college and I believed I was going to become an attorney, but I was going to get the engineering degrees and then go to law school and become an attorney, maybe a patent attorney or some type of a lawyer for a large corporation.
Kat Cole: 15:38
That was my fuzzy dream that was inspired by, I dunno, television shows, and teachers and things like that. And, but then I started training new employees as a waitress in my home restaurant in Jacksonville, Florida. And then I started traveling to open restaurants and realized I was very good at this kind of complicated thing. Much more easily than others were. And, and so I was 18, I was 19, I was 20, you know, I'm traveling around training teams, hiring employees, training managers, and I, myself had been an employee in those situations. So I had learned from good managers and from bad managers. And I just realized that I was pretty good at it. I didn't think I was perfect. I didn't think I knew everything, but it was obvious that I was naturally good at it. I was fortunate to be put in a situation where I could feel that I did more with less effort than others in this area.
Kat Cole: 16:39
And I think it's important for people to tune in to their energies and to pay attention when they have those moments, no matter what it is, whether it's playing an instrument or being a nanny or you know, working with kids or education or whatever, that you pay attention and you go, wow, I'm, it's not being conceited. It's saying I'm recognizing I'm pretty good at this and I have barely any experience and I love it. Yes. and so that was the feeling I had when I was opening franchises and training employees. And I've got a lot of feedback that also suggested that. And so I leaned into it. I kept saying yes. When the company said, well, you go travel. When they said, well, you go travel to Australia, I'd never been on a plane and I did not have a passport and I had never opened a restaurant in my life.
Kat Cole: 17:28
But I said yes. Not because I thought I wasn't delusional. I didn't think I knew how to do that. I was confident in my ability to ask for help and to take risks. And so I bought my first plane ticket, flew to Miami, stood in line, got a passport, expedited and left a few weeks later to Australia. And I thought it would never happen again. And I made up my classes and then they asked six months later, will you go to the same thing in Central America? And then several months later, will you go do the same thing in South America? And eventually I was leading these teams, not just a member of the teams, but I was also failing college. So I dropped out of college because I was literally failing. I was never there. It wasn't like I wanted to leave college. Right. Mom was very upset.
Kat Cole: 18:11
But I then got a job offer to move to Atlanta and work in the corporate office as a 20-year-old overseeing all employee training. So I said yes to that and I moved up as the company, you know, as the company grew, I grew and joining growing company matters because there is disproportionate opportunities, especially for people who might have less experience. So I moved up. But all through that process of moving up as a young corporate professional, I was volunteering my time for community organizations. I was volunteering my time for industry associations like the National Restaurant Association and the Georgia Restaurant Association. And those things brought me connections, the additional leadership experience in the nonprofit sector, which is an important layer of leadership. And it helped me have confidence because I was dealing with so many different scenarios. At the same time, I was working on fundraising initiatives for the nonprofit that I would come to work and work on training new employees and launching a new menu item.
Kat Cole: 19:14
And it made my skill set very robust, very fast. And that combination of my day job, my nonprofit side hustle, um, really helped round out my skills. And I was a vice president at 26. As I mentioned, the company was doing 800 million in revenue. The CEO passed away. Suddenly the whole executive team almost turned over. We owned an airline. We sold an airline. I mean it was a bananas period. But I was learning and learning. I knew it was my currency and I stayed there and that company for 15 years, but every three years it was like a completely different company. And every two years I had a different job. Yes. So it was, it was perfect for me and it prepared me to be the president of a large enterprise. But there's a lot of things that are non-traditional in there.
Kat Cole: 20:10
And everybody has their paths. And I guess because I, I didn't sit in a college environment waiting until the end with this huge weight of what will I do next? I jumped right into something because I had a compelling alternative. But if you don't have a compelling alternative, stay in school, like finish the degree because it's one of the greatest enablers and privileges in the world. But I had a compelling alternative that happened to come my way to keep opening restaurants around the world. I did later go back and get an MBA. So I have a masters without a bachelor's. It is rare but possible for your executive MBA program. So I have further evidence that I deeply respect higher education, but I also follow my own path and I don't, a lot of people like to say, wow, you're clearly so ambitious. I've never been ambitious. I'm not by the technical or typical sense of the word. I've always been very positive and opportunistic. And so when an opportunity came, I was ready because I was working my ass off and then I jumped in and said yes. So that was a bit more my path. That's not everyone. Some people are big planners and say, I want to be a CEO. And then they work their way back. And that's an amazing way to plan your future as well. Just give yourself the flexibility to make exceptions when opportunities.
Amanda Hammett: 21:30
Yes, I agree. I agree. You know, the one thing that really are the two things I really took away from your story is that you will three, okay? The learning was, was number one for you always, but you are always well willing to take risks, which a lot of people would have shied away from some of those risks that you took. But the third thing is that you might have had some missteps here and there, but you figured it out and you kept on going. And that's important. So that's grit, resilience, it took everything. That's awesome. All right. So Kat, when you think about young talent, so again, millennials, Gen z, what do you really think about their abilities? Because they're in the media. In Corporate America, there's a lot of talk of doom and gloom. It's not what I see and it's not what the numbers are showing me, but what do...
Kat Cole: 22:20
First of all, it's millennials and Gen z, if you put them together, I might have my math wrong, but it's probably close to half of the population. And so I don't know how you could even talk about a group that large as having any defined set of characteristics. Yes. That are any different from hue, like humans. So that's always really interesting. Even the millennial generation alone is so massive that there's clear evidence that um, sort of the younger millennials, that are closer to gen z or the earlier half, uh, and elder millennials to use the fabulous comedian, Eliza's stands up, words elder, millennial, are closer to Gen X. I'm millennial so I'm on the literally, I'm on like some studies, the few studies that include 1978, you know in a millennial. Then I like those cause I get to say I'm a millennial. But I'm a cusper me too and I certainly relate to both. And so that's my first opinion is talking about such a giant swath of the population as, and then trying to define their characteristics is a bit of a fool's errand. What I will say is that, and what has always been true of every next generation coming into the workplace is that they are critical of the generations that have preceded them because they are dealing with the downside effects of whatever their parents and their grandparents as a generation produced. And that's always been true always. And that's not new. And so I don't find it particularly unique or concerning or difficult. I do believe that because Gen z and the younger millennials are true digital natives. I've never known a world without an iPhone at, you know, as even a child or other types of technology have not known a world without the Internet.
Kat Cole: 24:38
They are quite possibly the most resourceful generations, um, that we've seen to date because of the abundant access to information to them. It's just like, of course, I can find that out. Of course, I can research that. In fact, when I meet a younger professional that isn't resourceful, I almost told them to an unfair standard where I'm like, what do you mean send you the link? Google it. Like what, why would you tell? I just had, my husband was telling me a story about a younger person who, you know, was asking for somebody to send a link and they're like, why wouldn't you just Google it? It's so weird to hear a young person asked for that. If it's something a 50-year-old should ask for not a 19-year-old. So they are in general more resourceful. And so the question is how to leverage that. Um, certainly because technology is the first filter. There are other downside effects. Things like low confidence, impostor syndrome because of the Instagram generation and comparing their day to day real life to someones, highlights and posts. So that's very real. It's a very real psychological component and the trade-off for all the upsides. And it, and when I find older generations saying the younger generations or that described them as, what about me, you know, it's all about the that's a bit shaped by the fact that everyone is kind of a celebrity in their own worlds through a social media platforms. And so I just, it is the creation of their environment. And so I'm also not critical of that. I just wonder how to leverage that, how to use that.
Kat Cole: 26:29
So resourcefulness there is a bit of a celebrity, everyone's an influencer in their own way. And so again, how do I, how do I use that? And then yes, there is there does tend to be less experience in deep interpersonal conflict and interpersonal interactions. There aren't the typical coping mechanisms that earlier generations absolutely came about naturally because they did have to deal with everything face to face, voice to voice. And so that's absolutely true. So there are upsides and there are downsides, just like with any generation.
Amanda Hammett: 27:03
Absolutely. That's wonderful. So I would, I would say that you're a rock star. I mean, I'm just going to go out there and say that, but how do you identify someone else who is a rock star or potentially has rock star abilities that maybe have not been uncovered?
Kat Cole: 27:18
I look for grit and resourcefulness. I mean, that is because if someone doesn't have that and they're a rock star right now, they won't be in a different situation. They're just a rock star because they've, um, they, they know the environment so well or everyone, they, they've done one thing incredibly well and there's nothing wrong with that. But if, if the question is what is a rock star? A rock star, it's not someone just being singularly amazing, But rather on the, on the business side, someone who I could put an on four different teams on three different projects and because they know how to ask the right questions, treat people with respect, collaborate, they have the courage to speak out and speak their mind. And these are super translatable. Rockstar attributes that will allow someone to be relatively successful in most scenarios. I don't expect the impossible if anyone, not even of myself.
Kat Cole: 28:24
But certainly, those are the things that I have learned are the hallmarks of someone who could be a rock star. I was just meeting with a team member in our office yesterday who wanted to talk about her career and what she was thinking and what was next for her and truly, and it's such a pleasure when you can give someone this feedback. I said, you I know I could put you in several different situations and maybe even a few different departments and you'd probably be able to figure it out. And that means the world is your banana, you know, you're going to have so many options and that's not the case for people who haven't figured out how to navigate diverse environments. So that's a bit of what I think our rock is, right?
Amanda Hammett: 29:13
That's, that is so right on. Absolutely. I think that's what every leader really needs to be focusing in on is just not looking at the resume, so to speak, but really looking at what are those qualities that this person has. So, all right, so what I have in what I deal with a lot are leaders who come to me and they're frustrated and they are exasperated and they are pulling their hair out. And again, it's back to these, I don't get these kids, these millennials are worst. Bless them when Gen z really hits full force into the workforce for them. But what advice would you give sitting in your office to an older leader who was really struggling in that way with a younger employee?
Kat Cole: 29:56
So I start with the same approach that I would with a younger employee is first, what can you do differently? And then what might they be able to do differently? And so on the, on the look in the mirror, the first conversation is if you are older, gen x or a boomer, you made these kids this way, right? You raised them, they grew up in your environment, you and your people did this. So take credit for the good. Take responsibility for what you don't like. It's the truth. And so I like to start first with empathy. Understand that they've grown up in an era of Columbine and the recession and on the heels of storytelling of nine 11, like they, you know, they're exposed to a lot big corporate enterprises.
Kat Cole: 30:52
I mean the financial crisis. Tumbling their worlds and their parents' world. There is a reason they inherently mistrust and there is a reason that there is a general overwhelming mistrust of larger corporations and more traditional leadership. And so just start there. Like, I get it. And so I have to actually combat that because I can't undo personally as a leader or I will tell this mature leader, let's say they're a baby boomer, you can't undo two decades of programming. You can't. And so you just have to empathize and understand that leads to so many behaviors. It leads to believing that there has to be a better way, which is a positive thing. It leads to them not wanting to hitch their wagon to a company for too long because all things come to an end.
Kat Cole: 31:51
So just understand it's not disloyalty. It's just a belief of the natural cycles of things that they're faster and shorter and they've seen big companies that were prominent in their early years go out of business by the time they're out of college. I'm so all big things don't last. And in fact, they're paying very much attention to why those things don't last and believe that doing things differently will lead to a different result, rightly so, I believe. And so how do you, you know, harness that. So that's my first piece of advice is to take some accountability and have some empathy. The second piece of advice, however, would be now that you have accountability and empathy for them or the behaviors that you're describing how can you educate, inform, support, and develop? So at anytime, I hear older leaders say, well, they just don't understand the business will anything teach them, right?
Kat Cole: 32:52
If they don't understand, you just called out and identified the problem, sit down with them and show them where the breakdown of a dollar goes. [inaudible] but a dollar in sales just come in. What happens to expenses? what is leftover and then where does that need to go and where does it not go that they might think that it goes, use, get them to be on teams where they're dealing with very real problems in the business. So they can't just live in a world of theory. Those are the things that good leaders can do. And so the third is kind of the summary of those two is don't spend too much of your time complaining because then you're not being a great leader. Spend your time doing something about it. And yes, of course. Just like there are boomers and Gen Xers that aren't capable of certain jobs and skills. There are millennials and Gen z years that are not the right fit for certain roles, but don't, don't broad brush, you know, an entire generation or age group. That's foolish. Just as I would never do that to you know, the person who might be asking for the advice.
Amanda Hammett: 33:54
Absolutely. All right. So let's, let's, you mentioned this just a second ago, but let's kind of hone in on it for a second. What have you found to be the benefits of focusing in on developing and educating your team, your workforce?
Kat Cole: 34:09
I mean, development and education do two things. One, it's more and more important to every generation that's younger. So it's a retention tool in and of itself, just ongoing learning and education as a reason to stay somewhere. The second is, of course, you're building capability in your internal team and not having to hire the experts from the outside. That is both a smart financial decision as well as a good cultural decision because you have someone who can grow up within the company and credit the Organization for their learning and development and then demonstrate those the newly honed skills with that learning and development and inside the company to benefit the company. And the third is it just provides perspective and perspective leads to calm, a calm comes across as maturity. Maturity helps counterbalance some of the natural traits that might show up for them as a young person.
Amanda Hammett: 35:06
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Kat Cole: Why Resourcefulness is Better Than Experience appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
As Baby Boomers retirements pick up the pace, companies are now facing questions on building the pipeline of next-generation talent. Learn Kayla Woitkowski of @SAS on how she saw this need within her own company and then spearheaded a drive to create a university recruiting team from scratch.
Kayla Woitkowski is the Sr. Manager, University Outreach and Recruiting at SAS. Leading a team that is responsible for developing, executing & maintaining strategic student outreach, recruitment, and programmatic efforts to meet the demand for hiring the next generation of student and early-career talent at SAS.
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The Transcript - How to Build a University Recruiting Team From Scratch Welcome to the next Generation Rock Stars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:13
Today, I have a great, great conversation. Just share with you. I talked to Kayla Woitkowski who is the head of the university recruiting at SAS in North Carolina and they are a privately owned company but they are consistently on the great place to work list pretty much every single year. And there are about 40 years old and they are a software company and they're doing some really very cool things, but what they're really doing that's really cool is they're using their own social innovation and their own initiatives on data for good to help them recruit students at the university level. So listen in and learn a lot from Kayla Woitkowski as she shares with you how she built an entire university recruiting program from scratch.
Amanda Hammett: 01:01
Welcome, Kayla.
Kayla Woitkowski: 01:03
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Amanda Hammett: 01:06
I'm really, really excited to talk to you, just to get the audience a little context on how I came to be with you today. I was invited as a guest to the great places to Work Conference of 2019. It was awesome. I sat in on a session led by someone from SAS on of social innovation and he was phenomenal and she was showing all these wonderful things and he talked a lot about a program that you guys have called data for good. Which I'm so looking forward to talking to you about and sharing with everybody because I think, but that's how I was, kind of put around to you how I got to you originally and you and I just had a conversation and I thought that you had some really interesting things to share with the audience about university recruiting. So Kayla, why don't you tell us a little bit about you.
Kayla Woitkowski: 02:02
Sure. Wonderful. Well, again, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to share a little bit more about university recruiting. It is, in every way, shape and form. My passion of really a little bit about me is I actually studied human resources and business administration at North Carolina State University and uh, back in college, you know, and setting human resources. I found the field to be incredibly broad. There's so much that you can do in human resources from leadership development to training and development to recruitment's compensation, all the different areas. So, yeah, in college I ended up having quite a few different internships. I was a little crazy and actually had six different internships. I know it's a little crazy, but it was really through those various internships that I kind of tested and tried out different areas of HR and one of my internships back in 2009, which is incredible to think it's been a decade.
Kayla Woitkowski: 02:57
But I was working at BMW down in South Carolina. Yeah, right there off of I 95 probably seen it, hired to be kind of more of the training and development in turn. But I found that the amount of time I was spending doing my actual work, it wasn't enough to fill my day. So I ended up talking to the recruiter that recruited me and said, hey, I have a few extra hours of time. Um, I would love to hear more about this field called university recruiting. So she kind of pulled me over to do some work to help her and it was in that moment. Then I found my passion. I think there is nothing more empowering and inspiring than helping students really find and land that very first job out of college. And really since that point in time since 2009 I've been, now I'm working primarily in the technology field in all aspects of university recruiting.
Kayla Woitkowski: 03:54
So, um, prior to being a SAS I was at a company called Netapp. They do data storage headquartered out in California and spent some time out in the silicon valley helping to do some university recruiting out there. And now has been fast for about five years helping to build and grow our university programs here. So that's a little bit just in brief about kind of the professional side of myself, but personally, I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio and that ended up down here in North Carolina for college. I was a first-generation college student, so scholarships brought me down to North Carolina and allowed me to stay more personally I suppose expecting my first child in September. So I suppose the important pieces about myself.
Amanda Hammett: 04:40
Awesome. Awesome. Well, interestingly enough to note, and this was not planned by any stretch of the imagination, but you actually know a guest from our first season.
Kayla Woitkowski: 04:52
Yeah. Yeah. So it's one of that kind of multiple lines of connection. Honestly, I would be surprised if she even remembers me, but she, I did go to high school the same high school that I did just outside of Cleveland, Ohio. I have an older brother, so she was in the same great as my, as my older brother. And I believe she was very involved in cheerleading along with some of my girlfriends. So yeah, it's a small girl.
Amanda Hammett: 05:17
Yes, absolutely. So for those of you who watched and followed along on season one, that was actually skewed. So she was from the beam, she was just a dynamo. So yeah. All right. Okay. So let's get back to SAS though. You guys actually had a very interesting situation come about. Actually, it's not that unique right now in corporate America. I feel like it's something that more companies need to start addressing and talking, talking about. And I think that you guys have done a really great job of addressing it head on, but you guys found herself in a situation where your workforce was older, a lot older.
Kayla Woitkowski: 05:58
Sure, sure. Yeah. And you're exactly right. I, it's, it's a common problem now, and maybe not a problem, but a business circumstance that's taking place on corporations all across the world with the baby boomer generation. Historically, having been the largest generation in the workplace and obviously now approaching retirement age and starting to kind of vacant positions that it's creating a lot of gaps in skill. It's creating a lot of gaps just in the sheer volume of employees at organizations. And although it is something that every organization is facing to your point at SAS, it was perpetuated because we are very fortunate to have a corporate culture that has been a year over year names as one of the best places to work in the world. And we have an incredibly low turnover rate for the technology industry. And for that reason, a lot of people have spent their entire careers here at Vassar.
Kayla Woitkowski: 06:57
And so now we have the circumstance where we were kind of foreseeing that a large population of our workforce is eligible for retirement and we have this need to really build the next bench of talent that really was going to help take our workforce board into our next 40 40 years for 40 years software or a 40-year-old software company. So at the time that I joined SAS, actually I was coming over, as I mentioned from a company called Netapp there at Netapp. I was one of 11 doing university recruiting. So we had a pretty built out university recruiting function and then came to SAS and quickly observed that there wasn't a university recruiting discipline necessarily and teams. So I saw this as a fantastic opportunity and honestly, just the stars aligned that there was a true business need for us to be proactive about identifying and recruiting strategically the next generation of talent for our organization. And that's, you know, I just came in with a passion and desire to want to build and grow. So we did it. We really took this as an opportunity to build and create a university recruiting team from the ground up. And that was about four years ago, back in 2015 now, four years ago. Actually, that would be four years ago, 2015 in this June. So, mmm. Yeah. So that's how we addressed that problem.
Amanda Hammett: 08:24
Very cool. So tell me about, I assume that when you took this to higher ups and we're building this business case, right? You know, what did that look like? I mean, what were the age ranges that you were facing currently and, and what kind of skills did you know that you were going to have massive losses in?
Kayla Woitkowski: 08:42
Yeah, it really, the way that we approached it with leadership is that one, we already had a fairly substantial intern program that at the time, you know, we, we weren't capitalizing on the talents. So at that time, we were converting to full time in about the mid 30 percent of interns were actually receiving full-time offers. And the industry really tries to target more closely to 60 to 70% of their interns receive the full-time offer opportunities. So really started first with we have a program where we're not seeing the complete return on investment, so we know this talent is strong, we're getting them over the course of an entire 10 to 12 weeks. Why not take this talent, assess their skills and give them full-time opportunities. You're going to get so much more insight and data on these candidates over the course of an internship then you would potentially during an interview process.
Kayla Woitkowski: 09:36
So that was kind of piece one yeah. Was let's capitalize on this intern program that is already in existence. Let's, let's make it bigger. Let's make it more strategic. Let's make an experience for these students, students. And then too, a lot of what we brought to leadership was more so industry benchmarks around what other organizations of our size and in our industry we're doing in terms of the university recruiting at that time given some of the experience out in the bay area, there were some contacts that I was fortunate enough to make during that time that were leading university recruiting programs at the likes of Facebook and Linkedin and Twitter and some other organizations and them were generous enough. You'll find the university recruiting field is very open and people who are willing to give information and you know, benchmarking with them, finding out that, you know, a company like Linkedin and Facebook who has exceptional brand awareness because they're consumer more consumer branded products. They were having university recruiting teams to the size of 35 to 80.
Amanda Hammett: 10:36
Yeah.
Kayla Woitkowski: 10:38
Yeah. That is out there really driving. Their brands on university campuses and, and helping to recruit that top talent. So it was really taking that benchmarketing market data and saying, here's what our competition for talent is doing. If we're doing nothing, we are not securing our future with top talent. So it was more so around the opportunity that was being lost. Maybe not so much at the time around looking at the workforce Democrats graphics in great detail. There's more than we need to be doing more.
Amanda Hammett: 11:11
Absolutely. That's wonderful. I'm really glad that you saw that opportunity and you seized on it. And especially I know that they are as well, that you saw this whole that was very entrepreneurial of you and to address it. So let me ask you, as you guys have started to change the methodology here at and who you're attracting, what changes have you guys had to make internally as well, whether it's through benefits, whether it's through internal coaching, whether it's through whatever, what have been some of the big changes you've had to make culturally as a company?
Kayla Woitkowski: 11:52
Yeah, it's a real question. And one of the major things that we've had to do is I partner very closely with somebody that leads more of the learning and development aspects of human resources. And we have built now very well built out programs that are more for training and enablement. So when these individuals come on board, come day one, we joke and say you're going to go through an entire additional semester of college except it's going to be specific to SAS. So we call these programs our SAS academies, depending on the job that the individuals being hired into this learning and development team has built out. A fantastic curriculum that kind of takes them through every aspect and competency of the role that they're expected to have in order to be successful day one on the job. So it's a matter of if we are trying to kind of fill a skill gap that experienced hires are vacating, we can't expect Scott college students that come out of college and have all the skills to be successful.
Kayla Woitkowski: 12:55
You know, the universities do a fantastic job building a kind of theory. And a lot of times a lot of hands-on practice, but it might not be in our technologies. That may not be the way that we sell our products. It may not be the way that we expect to treat our customers. So a lot of that we need to invest, we need to invest in these students and make sure that they're getting all the skills necessary to be successful. So that has been a huge investment of the organization and has been to create and build out these Sass Academy programs and we've definitely had to completely flip on the backside. The way that we recruit, you know is a typical traditional recruiting model, at least at the time that the team was being built. I mentioned briefly about sex is workplace culture. And we're very fortunate to have kind of the best place to work culture.
Kayla Woitkowski: 13:44
And for a while, there is an organization we were resting on that to be our form of attracting talents here in the local area that it works exceptionally well. But when we're talking about the top talents across the entire nation, we wouldn't show up on university campuses and we'd hear SAS, you know, a semester at sea or a SAS. Yes, shoot SAS shoes as airlines. We were getting all sorts of things people did not know who we were. And when we have a lot of employees that have been here for their entire career and have been here since inception, I think the idea that we needed to brand ourselves as an employer of choice was lost. Some completely flipped on the backside that we need to sell the candidates. We need to be active and engaged and we need to be present and we need to be you know, investing on, in our outreach.
Kayla Woitkowski: 14:40
And so we completely flipped our model instead of what you would call traditionally in the recruiting world, maybe a post and pray where you post a job and pray you to get this out in. We had to our entire, I profess to be more strategic to pick schools that made sense for us to have a plan of how we approached the talent on our camp. On our campuses and I make sure that we had brand recognition and a brand that made sense for our target population. You know, we have paid for daycare here at SAS. We have some so many wonderful benefits, not what this generation cares about, but we do have fantastic programs that help with the young professional network to help build the community of these individuals. We have work that is meaningful. So we had to do a lot of work and understanding what is our value proposition and how can we make sure what we're sharing to the candidates aligns with what they're seeking.
Kayla Woitkowski: 15:37
So while we didn't create these massive benefits shifts than changes in program, what we did is we pulled out the areas of our benefits that made sense for this population and we made sure that we have the right marketing materials, handouts, campaigns, and luckily we have fantastic partners here within SAS that help us in our HR communications and marketing teams that help us build and of what is this messaging so that, you know, our go to market strategy in recruiting these students actually aligns with their desires. And Luckily we had a lot of things in place that does, I'm kind of line up with what this generation was seeking.
Amanda Hammett: 16:13
You know, I'm really glad that you brought that up because the sec actually segues into your data for good initiative that I want to really talk about and talk about as not only a selling point but obviously, it's doing a lot of good around the world. But actually, why don't you take this one?
Kayla Woitkowski: 16:32
Okay. I will do my best. You heard it from the expert at the conference that you were at. So there was no way I will do it, the amount of justice that that Isa would, but. Really at Sas, we are using our analytics products in ways that are really helping humanity and we've been doing this since we were founded in 1976. There's nothing new to what we're doing. Our products are being used to, you know, help, rescue endangered species and track them and make sure that we can't proactive plans so that endangered species are being protected. We have different plans and all across the country that is helping with human trafficking and tracking the incidences and seeing if there are any trends so that we can combat human trafficking in the future. We have different ways that we're helping police forces. I have the right data in place so that if you end up, you know, arresting somebody or pulling them over on the side of the road instead of letting them go connecting databases so that all of the other data sources that could say, no, this person actually needs to be behind bars.
Kayla Woitkowski: 17:43
So that person actually gets to be behind bars and really helping the safety, our communities. And I say that we've been doing this since 1976 because it really is ingrained in everything that we do is analytics. Data analytics is really the power and the driver of a lot of the change that the world needs. See now and in the future. And all we've done is we've started to tell all these stories and we started to tell these stories in a more clear, concise and direct way that we find that we can talk about the ways that we're helping some of the largest banks in the world, you know, fight fraud and look at risk analysis situations. But when we tell those stories, so when we tell those stories that really do talk about saving the lives, um, individuals or, you know, helping to make the world a better place.
Kayla Woitkowski: 18:43
Yes. That not only does that help people wants to use our products more, but more than anything, when you think about recruiting, that's why I love working here is I know that the work that I'm doing, I'm hiring individuals that are working on this meaningful work to make the world a better place. That helps everybody see the bigger picture as to what they're doing. So, you know, the state of for good initiative it's a, it's a campaign but it's a campaign who bring together the stories of what we've always and doing and just being a little bit more intentional about telling all of the ways that our products are doing amazing things around the world.
Amanda Hammett: 19:23
So I will put in the show notes, links to some of the videos that are online that are showcasing the data for good initiative and some of the work that you guys have been doing. But I will tell you from my own personal experience this was my first introduction to what you guys were doing and these videos gave me chill bumps. I mean, whether it was working with the Red Cross during the earthquake in Nepal and how to get resources to help these people and save lives and, and, and continue to help them move further along, down the path that they needed to go so that they could get out of that immediate dangerous situation. It was just you guys pulling together what you already have and just giving it, Hey, red cross, here you go, let me, let me do this for you. And I feel like that's really what humanity incorporation should be doing together is just helping people. What can we use, what we're already doing to help humanity?
Kayla Woitkowski: 20:20
Absolutely. I'd love to tell a quick story that I ended up showcasing or not, but this was one of the first exposures to data forgot that I ended up seeing in working at SAS and now that I'm expecting my own child, even more, Howard Hughes Story. But we have a video internally obviously if it's external too if so I'll send it to you to include in those links. But in short, we actually had an employee who got in front of all the software to tell the story on how she was pregnant with her very first child and she went for her 20-week ultrasound, which is typically where you find out if it's a girl or if it's a boy. And at that ultrasound found out that her child had actually had a stroke, while she was in gestation. So, you know, you can only imagine all the the panic and fear that comes to you as a parent and thinking I was just going to find out the gender and now I have this information that I have, I don't know what to do with.
Kayla Woitkowski: 21:18
And she goes down to tell this story about how, you know, immediately she started testing and got the results when she got the results in the form of lab reports, the lab reports for Britain in SAS, that's programming codes. So this was at Baylor a hospital. Baylor is one of the SAS users. And what these results told her was her plan of what she needed to do immediately. And then day one, once the child was born to ensure that the child was going to be able to take her very first steps. And in the video, she again is onstage in front of all the software developers and she goes on to then have her daughter walk on stage and you know, perfectly happy and healthy and um, you know, you just, you watch this and she's, she's telling the developers that the work that they do matters.
Kayla Woitkowski: 22:13
And if it wasn't for this work that she was doing that she doesn't know if her child would've ever been able to take their very first steps. And I'm, the only reason I can get through it without tiers is that I've seen the video now hundreds of times. But, yeah, it's, that's meaningful work that is working, you know, the software developers every day can think that they're just creating a program or that they're just writing some scripts, but the work that they were doing, I saved this child's future. One of our very own employees. So again, just a matter of finding those stories and telling those stories and making people understand and see the wine, the impact has been what has been so fantastic about this whole kind of data for good initiative. If you will. That's powerful.
Amanda Hammett: 23:03
I mean, I don't even, I think that if everybody could make that tie into what they do, I think that the world would work in a very different way in the workplace would be a very different place to be. But that is so incredibly touching. I mean, I bet every software developer had new fire lit after that.
Kayla Woitkowski: 23:25
Absolutely. How could you not want to work harder when you know that that is the work that you're contributing to?
Amanda Hammett: 23:31
And that is just one story, probably millions that they have a touch that they don't, they're not aware of.
Kayla Woitkowski: 23:38
Absolutely.
Amanda Hammett: 23:39
Okay. Well, let's switch gears before I cry. No, that was a beautiful story and thank you so much for sharing it and that's, that's looking for, um, all right. But again, no go crying, today man. So let's talk a little bit about if a company was looking to start a university recruiting program from scratch. They have nothing much like what you had what advice would you give them and what are some foundational things, pieces that you think that they need?
Kayla Woitkowski: 24:14
Absolutely. And there are, there are some critical components in order to do it right. I would say first executive buy-in is key and it really needs to start from the top. And the reason why that's important is one, you need to think very differently about how you workforce plan in terms of headcount. And this can be very challenging for a lot of corporations. So traditionally for recruitment, you have somebody vacate a role or you identify a business need kind of point in time and then you kind of filled that need. Now some organizations are a little bit more strategic and proactive, but I'll say for probably about 90% of organizations, that's just reality of how you function in order to do university recruiting, right? You have a window of opportunity, especially if you're recruiting for business talent. If you're recruiting for computer science, talent analytics, talent, talent right now where the market is extremely hot and these students have opportunities, a lot of the big four accounting firms, the big things that are really the ones that have moved the needle to a point where students are seeking jobs.
Kayla Woitkowski: 25:17
A lot of times, well in advance, at least the semester before they graduate and that period of time from about September to November prior to graduation. So these are even for those graduating in May, September 10th, November is when students are receiving job offers and when they're accepting job offers. And if you aren't effectively able to plan ahead with your needs and you're not recruiting enough period of time, you are missing out. University recruiting is extremely different in that if you think about it, these students, I think the most recent article I read from USA Today said every computer science student, there's going to be 10 vacant openings for every one computer science student. There's and opportunities that are available for them too. Consider, so how do you make yourself stand out? How, how are you going to be the one in 10 that they select? And especially when you're going up against large consumer brands and you know, not everybody has the right brand recognition as some brains better just kind of in front of students every single day.
Kayla Woitkowski: 26:25
So if you're not, they're at the right period of time and you're not there with the right value proposition for students, you're going to miss out. So it takes pre-planning, it takes executive buy-in, it takes working on the headcount planning in advance. It takes being able to make offers in that period of time and really having a strong employer brand and knowing what is true to you and being able to articulate that to students. So when they are looking at their 10 opportunities in front of them, they genuinely and authentically know what makes your organization unique. And I want to put an emphasis on the word authentically. You know, it's okay if your environment isn't the type that has ping pong tables and pool tables and you know, all of these things that, you know, startups are able to offer. Some of the large tech employers are able to offer it.
Kayla Woitkowski: 27:15
That's okay. And what you have to offer you have to think about what makes you authentically unique and different and then finding the students that truly want what you have to offer. So that's a big piece. Make sure your intern program is solid. I think that is kind of step one. Your intern program is an exceptional way to recruit talent early, keep them engaged and give them an opportunity to get exposure to your culture, to wow them. To really have programming that makes them say that was such a great experience that I don't want to consider other employers. And the great thing is you can have interned as early as we hired them in high school, so we start engaging them before they even go to college. Yeah. And we do find that some of our high school interns stay with us from, you know, their senior year of high school through all four years of college and then they come to our full time and that doesn't even give other employers the opportunity to engage and recruit them.
Kayla Woitkowski: 28:12
So make sure that the intern program is solid. I do want to go back to kind of that outreach component. So how you're actually engaging students on a university campus. So it is so critical. And you know, one thing that I think is a misconception is we're in this era of digital transformation. I feel like you hear it all the time. How are you online? How you present online social media. This Gen z is so connected, they're the connected generation. How are you getting in front of them in the ways that they, they want to genuinely, the right way to get in front of students is still very traditional. To be present on a university campus. Nothing goes further than a handshake to meeting some study face to face, to providing mentorship opportunities to really truly engage students. And you can't do that at 4,500 universities across the United States.
Kayla Woitkowski: 29:10
I think there's 4,500-degree granting institutions across the United States. So pick which schools make sense for you and then go deep, you know, be the employer of choice on that campus because you're there multiple times a semester, you're ascending alumni, you're sending people that are going to represent your culture well and give that face to face connection. It goes a very long way. So I would say those are kind of the key baseline components to be thinking about is what is your outreach strategy? What is your messaging? How is your intern program being and are your executives and is your workforce planning type to a point that you're going to be able to execute when you're building this plan?
Amanda Hammett: 29:49
That's really super solid. I mean that's, I feel like something that someone could easily take and say, okay, we're starting from scratch. We have nothing but this is something we'd like to tackle. But what I thought was most interesting and I think that was most people are going to latch onto is that last piece about the outreach, the in person face to face. And it is so important. Yes, they're very technologically savvy. Yes, they are in their phones all the time. But face to face, human being to human being connection is where it's at. I mean we are hardwired that way. We create that in a neurobiological sense. And if you're just depending on students to read about you on your website or check out your social media presence, that's not getting the job done. That's part of it. And they will definitely check that out probably before you come on campus. But if you're not there face to face and like really impacting them in that way don't wish that...
Kayla Woitkowski: 30:49
Other employers are. And that's what it boils down to. And that's what makes university recruiting so unique is that you know, these students are looking for a job post-graduation and less if they're taking a gap year or something to that effect. They're looking for a job and they have every industry as an option. They have every organization as an option, hundreds and hundreds. You know if your company doesn't have a very profound and unique brand, they're not going and checking your website. You need to be in front of them. So how are you actively engaging? How are you present? How are you in the classroom? How are you at career fairs? How are you doing tech talks, how are you? We'll do interesting things like we'll go into the big open area on a university campus and host a yoga class and then we'll just have our signage there and we'll have students doing yoga on behalf of Sas because you know, health and wellbeing are so important to us as an organization.
Kayla Woitkowski: 31:43
And then that creates a buzz of diverse students in a downward dog over there on the half of Sas. And how are you being creative? How are you approaching students in a very different way?
Amanda Hammett: 31:54
That's excellent. I love that idea. I love that you're reaching out to them in that way. I have one question and this is more of a clarifying question for our audience for someone who is looking to start a program from scratch. Um, you said that November or September to November is when you're making offers. These are for students graduating in May. You've got it. What's the start date projected start date on something like that?
Amanda Hammett: 32:18
Typically, you know postgraduation so it depends if it's a semester schedule or a quarter schedule, but I would say anywhere from May 15th through until June 15th you'll find is pretty average. I will say I'm noticing a lot of the big four global accounting firms moving to September start date. Yes. I think some of that is one to law students, the ability to travel there is a big desire for that now and, and go for it. You know, the world is your oyster. That's the only time you were about to start working for the rest of your life. Might as well take that time. But to, you know, academic calendars vary across the globe. So September is a good midpoint so that you can really get people kind of all graduating at once to start dates in September. That's, that's fairly normal as well.
Amanda Hammett: 33:07
Okay, Perfect. Now I have a question for you. You know, doing what I do, I talk a lot to leadership. I talked to recruiting, I talked to basically everybody about millennials and Gen z and this, that and the other. But there is always that whole media buzz around and that discourse around, Oh, they're this or they're that. In your opinion, what are the big differences you saw university recruiting a millennial versus university recruiting a Gen z? I know we're early in Gen z, but still, what are you seeing?
Kayla Woitkowski: 33:46
Great question if you don't mind. I want to kind of talk briefly about the first part of the question just because I'm super passionate about this. So, I very genuinely feel that's generation is only a small component of what makes somebody who they are. And I took a fantastic training early in my career when I was at net app actually that was the generations in the workplace training and the entire train. And you know, the first half of it was yours, and I'm more serious, typical generations in the workplace. Here's what you know, millennials do, here's what baby boomers do, here's what, you know, gen x experienced. And this is how it shapes their views in life. And it was, you know, kind of just educational now right before lunch, but they had us do, was take a quiz and it was all of these characteristics and factors there is about who you are, how you prefer to receive communications.
Kayla Woitkowski: 34:42
It's a lot of good information. After lunch, what they had us do was plot a sticker into different generations with a certain color. The color was what your true generation was. Most people did not put their color in alignment with their true generation. How was the gen x? Even though I am a millennial and I just, I think that the year that you were born is only going to determine a small factor and there's so much more of that makes somebody who they are so and rants. But that's something that I just feel very, very, very passionately about. So I'm transitioning into kind of differences in what I've seen. I'll say it is fascinating being on university campuses right now in this era of, you know, podcasts. And what we're doing right now is you walk around and it's almost sheer silence because everybody has their ear pods are there.
Kayla Woitkowski: 35:33
Airports or your phones in and they're walking around engaging with content when t four seven and everything that they do. And that was not the case. You know, we're hurting 10 years ago on university campuses. Students were having conversations and yes, there was still some texting while walking and things like that. But just the engagement with constantly having inputs, I'm seeing that come through then to once they enter the workforce and the idea of how to keep somebody engaged in the workplace. And you know, I manage a team of seven and I think everybody on the team outside of maybe two or all, you know, either Gen z or millennial and, you know, I walk into the office, opened the door and I do see, you know, they have their air, their earbuds in and multitasking in their work and it's just, it's fascinating.
Kayla Woitkowski: 36:24
So you know, not to completely contradict what I had said earlier, but there is a little piece that makes employers needing to think a little bit more about their digital strategy. Now, you can't be everything, but I think it needs to be in tandem. You know, what's you're an on-campus presence, what is your digital strategy and kind of marrying the two so that you are connecting with those that are always connected. And there's a lot of fascinating tools that are out there in existence now where you can do some of that. Um, I would say also expectations around what they're seeking is way different. And I would say Gen z, the customization era where everything, they want things to be very specific to what they're seeking. I've never seen students have so much of a plan as they do right now.
Kayla Woitkowski: 37:11
You know, they know specifically what company they want to work for, what industry, what type of role because they're trying to customize an experience that is something that they are kind of striving to do. And that makes it more interesting. There's a lot of times where we have to kind of walk students back out of their idea of perfection, you know, walk them back out of, you know, have you thought about something different? Have you thought about, you know a large organization even though you want to go to a startup, have you thought about, you know, the, the pieces of Silicon Valley, high cost of living, you know, and helping kind of walk them back through kind of rationalizing through their desires for a job. We spend a lot of time with Gen z kind of explaining some of those things where I can't say that we didn't have to do with that with millennials, but we, we certainly have to do that a little bit more. So, um, those are some of the things that I'm seeing. The honestly, I don't see wild major differences between the two other than that connectivity. But in short, that meaningful work component was really important for millennials. Even more important for Gen Z. And making sure companies are authentic and genuine about their value propositions are to the big components I'm seeing.
Amanda Hammett: 38:29
I agree wholeheartedly. Okay. So when you are out there on campuses and you are, you know, recruiting and you're looking at students, how do you identify someone who is a rock star or who has the potential to be a rock star? What shows up for you?
Kayla Woitkowski: 38:46
Yeah, this is another thing. Gosh, you're asking all the questions that I just get excited with passion. Well, we talk about as a team here at SAS is a passion, attitude, and aptitude. When we're looking at students, a lot of times managers are saying they need to have this specific gill. They need to be specialized in open source programming. But then you take a step back and you say, students, what is going to allow them to succeed? Passion, attitude and aptitude. So passion. Are they passionate about the SAS mission? Are they passionate about what we do? Analytics, are they passionate about a thing? You know, you have all experienced those individuals that you meet that you're like, okay, oh right, I can't pull anything out of you. What excites you? Where are you passionate? So looking at that, that passion, the right attitude, willingness to learn, willingness to be coached.
Kayla Woitkowski: 39:43
Oh really? That genuine innate curiosity where they're asking more questions and listening more than they are wanting to share or tell or say what they know. That is a big piece of it as well. And the attitude glass half full can do attitude taking initiative, all of those pieces, all compromise attitude and an aptitude. Aptitude is, yes, maybe a certain set of skills, but we do look for past performance. We do look at how they performed in college. You know, I do think that if they have been involved in student organizations, they're well rounded, they're contributing back to their university. That means that they would come to SAS and hopefully want to contribute, do our culture and our ecosystem just as much as they are at the university and aptitude as well as obviously intellectual aptitude. So all of our interviews here at SAS have what we call a role-based activity where we actually do give them a component of what we'd expect them to do in the job and just see how they do. Instead of just asking behavioral based questions, how would you do something? Actually making them show that they can, they have the aptitude and ability to do the work. So passion, attitude, attitude is what we look at.
Amanda Hammett: 40:59
That's awesome. Okay, so let's talk to our younger audience for just a second. You have a college student and if you could talk to all the college students in the world today and you would give them some advice about how to find the right fit for them. It may not be SAS, it may be somebody else, but what? What do they need to be looking at? What do they need to be focusing on to find that right fit?
Kayla Woitkowski: 41:20
A couple of things and that's a daunting thing. It's so daunting we, it goes back to every industry, every company culture, every job that's out. How do you know what's right for you? A couple of things. One knows your big three. I had a professor back in college who when I was looking at different job opportunities, said Kayla, there are many components of the job and he actually gave us a list of all the students a list who's going to be your manager location. Hey, benefits work culture, working hours. There are a lot of aspects of a job. Do an inventory. What are all those various aspects of the job? And then what are your big three? What are the three things that matter most to you? And if you don't know, because maybe you haven't had an internship or maybe you haven't had the right conversations just yet.
Kayla Woitkowski: 42:16
Find mentors by mentors who are currently in jobs, who can tell you, Here's how working for a bad manager can impact your every single day. Here's how working for an organization that's a very cut throat. We're very lenient and relax. Here's how that could impact how you enjoy your job. Hey, and just work through those and talks to people and figure out what are the three most important criteria. If you want to be super analytical, wait for them, go down the list and actually do a numerical weighting based on what is most important to you. So that one, these job opportunities are flying at you and you're trying to evaluate, you have some sort of criteria to make a decision that's more than just a gut feeling and it's backed by some truth that you have first discovered within yourself. You've made that realization, here is what I want a job, this job matches up, this one doesn't.
Kayla Woitkowski: 43:14
And then it helps you evaluate a little bit more effectively. But I can't emphasize enough the importance of mentors. It was a mentor that helped me switch my major from accounting to HR. Thank God I married an accountant and I could not do what he does every day. So all you accountants out there, I am very impressed by all that you do. It was a mentor that helped steer me into university recruiting. It was a mentor that brought me over to Sas and it was a mentor that just recently helps me decide how I'm going to get a plan. And what I'm gonna do is I'm having my very first child. So mentors can help you through every aspect of your career, get to know you better than you know yourself and maybe make some of these decisions a little bit easier for you as well. Absolutely.
Amanda Hammett: 43:56
Well, I can't think of anything more wonderful to end on than that right there. So thank you so much for being on the show.
Kayla Woitkowski: 44:04
You're very welcome. Thank you, Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: 44:06
All right, everybody tunes in for next week's episode. We've got another fantastic guest. See you then.
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the next generation stars where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rocks star leader and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
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Employee retention is on the minds of every leader from the C-Suite down. But what if the conversation about #employeeretention is focused on the wrong things? Learn from Fran Katsoudas, Chief People Officer at Cisco Systems as she shares the importance of being more proactive and designing programs that bring out the best in your employees thus making them want to stay and become high performers.
Francine Katsoudas is Executive Vice President and Chief People Officer of Cisco. As the leader of Cisco’s People Strategy and Human Resources Organization, Katsoudas is helping to accelerate Cisco’s transformation through leadership, attracting and retaining the best talent and building a culture of innovation. A major priority for Katsoudas is focusing on how Cisco wins in the talent marketplace while creating a compelling employee experience.
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The Transcript - Building High Performing Teams Welcome to the next generation rock stars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Hi and welcome to this week's episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars podcast. I am your host, Amanda Hammett and I am thrilled to have you today. Today's episode is a really special one because I am sharing this episode. It is a joint interview between myself and my husband, Gene Hammett, who is the host of the popular business podcast "Leaders in the Trenches". And together we had the opportunity to sit down in person and interview Fran Katsoudas who is the Chief People Officer at Cisco Systems. Now, one of the most interesting things that came out of this interview and trust me, there were multiple, but just the focus on developing leaders in the way in which Cisco is doing it and trust me, they are doing it in some really innovative and different ways. There were a few stories that Fran shared during this interview that both Gene and I were really taken aback and just awed at how they're approaching developing their leaders. So I think that this is something that each and every leader should think about and take notes from because Fran is, she's a leader, she is a pioneer. She is looking at developing teams. She is looking at developing individuals for 75,000 employees around the globe. And she is doing a fantastic job. So I hope you take lots of notes. And here is Fran Katsoudas with Cisco Systems.
Gene Hammett: 01:43
Hi, this is Gene with leaders in the trenches. And also we have Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: 01:48
Hi, this is Amanda Hammett and this is with the next generation of rock stars.
Gene Hammett: 01:51
If you don't know Amanda's my wife. So, she's been on the podcast before and episode 100 but we have a very special guest today. We have a friend cut us with Cisco. She, I will let her introduce herself because the title is not that hard. It's the chief people officer, which is much easier to say the chief human resources officer. Fran, tell us a little bit about you and who you serve.
Fran Katsoudas: 02:16
Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much. So that my title changed about four years ago and I think that's part of the shift to really focusing on people and experience. And so, I think the people that I serve are all of our employees at Cisco and I take that incredibly seriously. I think it's one of the most amazing jobs. And in my role, I'm helping to hopefully create amazing careers for 75,000 employees.
Gene Hammett: 02:42
I think it's a much better title.
Amanda Hammett: 02:44
I do too. I think that it really reflects the culture that you guys have built at Cisco.
Gene Hammett: 02:51
I, you know, I'm going to let the audience know a little bit more about my research and you too, Fran. The key thing is I study growth companies and I over 300 leaders about what's the most important thing to grow. Is it a customer first or employee first? And 94% of smaller companies will say it's employee first. So I probably know where you are on this, but where do you, where do you rank in that?
Fran Katsoudas: 03:13
Okay. Yeah, you know, this, um, these things go hand in hand. And I, and I think if you asked the question, uh, five or seven years ago, the 94% could be customer first. It could have been, right. I think now all of us realize that when you take care of your people, they take care of the customer and they do the right thing, not only for the customers but for the community as well. And I think that's a little bit of the shift even for large companies like Cisco.
Gene Hammett: 03:38
Well, we're talking to you because you made the list and how many years in a row have you made the great places to work list?
Fran Katsoudas: 03:45
So we've been on the list for 22 years.
Gene Hammett: 03:49
Okay, that's, they put people first.
Amanda Hammett: 03:52
Apparently yes, very much so. I mean, 22 years. That's amazing. And I, has anybody else ever reached that pinnacle?
Fran Katsoudas: 04:00
I do think that there are a few other companies that have. But you know, I'll tell you because I feel it's important to say in 22 years, we've had some really phenomenal years. I think the highest that we've been is number three. And then we had years that were more challenged. And we talked about this the other night. We were at number 90 at one point. And so it's been fascinating for us to be at those numbers and with each year and every level of recognition. I think there was a question around what do we need to do? And sometimes that's been harder and sometimes a little east.
Gene Hammett: 04:36
Well, I want to direct our conversation into a topic that a lot of companies are struggling with it. This is big companies, medium-sized companies, small companies, and that's retaining key employees. So this is, you know, other words retention. Why is retention so important for business today?
Fran Katsoudas: 04:53
Yeah. Cause we know there's nothing better than having amazing people in teams. And so I think we all talk about retention because we don't want to lose that. And especially when you have something that's working, it's just so critical. The other thing that we recognize, there are really unique skills that are out there and from a technology space, skills are changing. Like the life of skill at this moment is becoming shorter and shorter. And so I think that's an element of why we talk about retention.
Amanda Hammett: 05:22
So Fran, in your journey of all of these 22 years on the great places to work list, I would imagine that over the years you guys have put on some key projects to really help you retain that talent and not only retain it, but also rescale it as those skills change.
Fran Katsoudas: 05:40
Yeah. It's interesting because I hesitate a little bit when I think about retention because there's something about that that if you're not careful, you can be on your heels a bit. And so rather than putting in retention programs, what I want to put our amazing programs that allow people to be at their best. And for every employee, they have some very unique things going on at work and at home and there are different paths that we have. And so I feel like our job is to architect these potential paths for people. There was a point probably about seven or eight years ago where I was spending so much time talking about retention and I don't think it was the right dialogue. What I needed to be talking about is how do we help people be at their absolute best? How do we help them work on teams where they feel like their work is having a tremendous impact. So that's a little bit of the shift that we've been through.
Gene Hammett: 06:37
It seems like that's more of a shift from retention is like kind of a reactive to what's going on, whereas you're getting more proactive.
Fran Katsoudas: 06:44
That's what I should have said. Yes,
Amanda Hammett: 06:46
You did. You did. You said that.
Gene Hammett: 06:49
A key question, you just came off the stage great, conversation kind of panel of what Cisco is doing, um, to move forward in the next 22 years. But you mentioned a project and I don't know what it's called, but you ask employees about what do they love and what do they loathe. So how often do you do that and why do you do that?
Fran Katsoudas: 07:10
Yeah, so there's a technology that we put in place. I think it's almost three years ago that Marcus Buckingham created, um, ADP recently acquired this company. And so every week, um, we go on our phones, there's an app that we have and we share our priorities for the week. We share what we loved and what we load from the previous week, and then how we feel about whether or not we're really. Really working in a way that demonstrates our strengths and then the level of value or impact that we think we're having. And it's something that candidly will take me about five minutes. Um, I do it weekly and Chuck Robbins, our CEO reviews my check-in and then he'll provide feedback. And so if you think about it, at its core, what it's doing is it's allowing us to quickly connect on the work. And then there's something a lot more powerful as it's giving chuck insights through what I love around what really fuels me as an employee.
Fran Katsoudas: 08:07
And then what I load, which was those things that drain. And I think as our role as leaders is to really do more of the love and help our employees on the load side of the house.
Amanda Hammett: 08:16
And I will say that I, you know, I've worked with some of your leaders and they have all had that exact same response to, to that APP and to that feedback on a weekly basis and that they really have enjoyed being able to see, okay, where am I missing ball, where can I help my people more? And I think that that's a major cultural just benefit that everybody's enjoyed.
Fran Katsoudas: 08:37
That's so funny Amanda, because um, everyone's different. Right? And so, as a leader, you start to understand your people in different ways. Like there are some members of my team where they rarely put anything in load. So when something is there, I need to get to them. I need a call them, I need to meet him cause I know there's something really heavy for them. So it's kind of fun because as leaders I think you get to know your people and I would never expect that they use at the same way. I think that's wonderful. But we learn a lot.
Gene Hammett: 09:07
It was good. How often do you do it?
Fran Katsoudas: 09:09
I probably do it three out of four weeks, so I will sometimes, if I'm traveling I'll miss a week or if I'm with chuck, but we ask people to do it at least. We try for weekly, at least every other week. And it's just a powerful way for us to connect.
Gene Hammett: 09:26
I want to be clear about this cause for, and you talked about you filling out this and you report to the CEO. Um, but how many thousand people are actually doing this program?
Fran Katsoudas: 09:35
Yes. So we've rolled it out to all employees around the globe. Now I'll tell you the number I, I really, really care about. Um, when we first rolled it out, we were seeing employees enter their information and we could see that in some cases a manager wouldn't read it. And that's pretty heartbreaking. Like, think about it. You go through this, this exercise of putting in your priorities you love and loathe and you're probably like sitting there going, I'm not going to say like, what are they going to say to that? And we worked with our leaders and now that rate is 92%. So 92% of the checkins are red. And we know that for the 8%. Sometimes they're red after the week. but that's really important. I call that the attention rate. And it's a question around our leaders paying attention to our people.
Amanda Hammett: 10:20
Absolutely. And that's one of the biggest things in my work that I see with next generation talent is that they want to have their voices heard. And this is a wonderful, beautiful, almost immediate way to do that.
Gene Hammett: 10:32
I'm going to switch the conversation a little bit. Back to my research. I study fast growing companies and one of the core factors of that has been, um, transparency and the word I actually use because a lot of these fast growing companies or adamant about it and as they use radical transparencies, and that's what you guys said on stage. So what is radical called transparency in terms of leadership?
Fran Katsoudas: 10:55
I think it's sharing what's not working. I think it's sharing those places where you perhaps did something wrong. I think it's just driving an honest discussion sometimes. I think it's actually more about the listening part for us from a senior leadership perspective in January of this year. And it was important to us. We wanted to kick off the year again with, with a signal of what was important to us. We actually shared with all of our employees at a company meeting, we do the monthly, all of the employee relations cases that we've had for the first half of our fiscal year. And we shared with them, you know, cases like cases around bullying and harassment, cases where perhaps I'm, someone felt like they were not being heard. And then we shared with our employees what we had done as a result of those cases. And the response to that, I think will drive more transparency from our employees in their own stories. And it's funny, I've had situations where I'll get out of the elevator and employee will say, Hey, that story that was real. Like I've had that happen to me. And so that's a little bit of what we're really pushing towards. Cause I think when we have that will be better as a company in every way.
Gene Hammett: 12:09
Follow up question. That is a lot of people are interested in transparency and some people are committed. What would you say to those people that are just merely interested?
Fran Katsoudas: 12:17
Well, I get it. I get it because it's hard. It's really hard. And um, we were just on stage with Mark Chandler who is our general counsel at Cisco and he's an amazing partner in that because I think what you have to be willing to do is understand that in some cases, transparency will lead to more conversation and work to be done. But the issues are there. Um, and so I would say that the faster that you can address the issues, the more that you're gonna be able to move on. And so I think we have to move to committed in this regard.
Amanda Hammett: 12:55
So I'd like to switch gears a little bit. Um, something that came up on during that panel was brought up by Amy Chang. Um, but it's something that I've actually seen also in heard from the leadership that I've worked with is the caring, the culture of caring that you have cultivated. But Amy's specifically said it comes from you directly and your team and it trickles down. And I love that. And so I, I'd like to, I'd like to know a little bit more about what benefit do you feel that that's given not only to you and your team, but also overall to your 75,000 employees?
Fran Katsoudas: 13:28
Well, she was very kind. I mean, it really does start with our CEO, Chuck Robbins. I think he's someone that in every engagement you see his passion and caring. Um, and it comes from our employees. And I'm a big believer in this magic of when things happen at the top and then throughout the organization, a lot of times I refer to it as the sandwich. Um, when we were doing work in August, identifying our principles as a company, we went around to, all of our employees around the globe are to focus groups and, um, what came out is they feel that we're a caring company. And so one of our principles is all around how we give of ourselves. I think, you know, my team sets a tone, which I absolutely love and I, and that's something I'm incredibly proud of and I think they do an amazing job. What we work really hard at is how do we connect the business strategy, um, to everything related to culture and people in organization and at the same time be there for one another.
Gene Hammett: 14:36
How do you transform leaders to really think about an increased to caring?
Fran Katsoudas: 14:43
I think leaders need to see it in action. I you know it's really hard. I mean, I think we've all been in situations where perhaps you see someone saying something on the stage and you think, hmm, I don't think that's really how it is. Right? And there's nothing, there's nothing worse than that. Um, and sometimes I feel really fortunate. I, um, I started at Cisco in the contact center. Um, I came in early in career and I answered phones. I remember talking to like 80 customers a day about their technical issues. And I think sometimes when you start at a company at a very entry level, you see so many different types of leaders, um, and you see some really good examples. So the first thing I would say is that leaders have to see it role model at, at every level in the company.
Fran Katsoudas: 15:32
And there can't be an exception and you have to call it when there is, which is incredibly hard. And you have to teach something that we've done recently. It sounds really funny. We've brought actors in to a leadership class and we've had the actors hand an employee a card that says your employee is talking over everyone in a team meeting. Go. And basically you have to have a conversation where you're helping your employee understand that that's going on. And so these are real life experiences. And so we're trying to coach and help and talk through as much as we can and make it real.
Amanda Hammett: 16:08
Awesome.
Gene Hammett: 16:08
That's pretty interesting. I've never heard of...
Amanda Hammett: 16:10
I have literally never heard of that.
Gene Hammett: 16:12
That's bringing actors.
Gene Hammett: 16:24
So let me take this one friend you talked on stage about some work you've done on forming of teams and what makes good teams. I've read some studies from Google as well. I'm sure you've probably read these as well. What can you tell us about best teams?
Fran Katsoudas: 16:44
Yeah, so for us it was really fascinating. We went out to the business about three years ago and we said, identify your best teams. And they identified about 97 teams across the company and we studied the 97 teams and then we studied a control group of 200 teams. And sure enough, we could see a difference. And, and honestly we didn't know if that was going to be the case or not. And so the delta that we saw was in three key areas on the best teams. We could see that employees were playing to their strengths and when employees play to their strengths, there are a lot more creative, there are a lot more productive. So it's pretty amazing for us. The second thing that we saw, and I think this was in the Google study as well, is that on teams where teammates feel like, hey mate, my teammates have my back.
Fran Katsoudas: 17:30
There's a big difference from a safety and trust perspective, that's incredibly important for growth and innovation as well. And then the last thing that we saw is on our best teams teams were aligned on how they were gonna win together. They, they had some shared values as it relates to where they were going. And so those were the three differentiators between the best teams in the control group. And then that became really the philosophy for a lot of what we do from a teams and leaders.
Amanda Hammett: 17:59
I think that, I think that that's really important, especially from my perspective with the young talent, is that finding those good leaders, because that is one of the things that I coach university students to think about is really look for that good first leader. That person that can really help you play to your strengths are figure out what your strengths are. Because coming out of college you may not know exactly what you're good at or you may develop new skills. And being with a leader who can help you do that and can guide you is beautiful. It's wonderful.
Gene Hammett: 18:27
So, Fran, we've been guiding most of these do questions is, is there something that we haven't asked you about that you feel like really would improve the employee experience?
Fran Katsoudas: 18:38
You know, there's something I'll share with you that we're focused on at the moment. And it's something where we're learning a lot and we're developing and there's this, um, there's this belief that we have in something called conscious culture. And the belief set is that when you have a conscious culture, every single employee is a leader within the company. And every single employee's conscious of their role in shaping the company and shaping our culture. There there's three things that we're focused on within this. The first is the environment. This is why, by the way we shared the employee relations cases because we want to have a really honest dialogue around the environment. The second pillar is all about the characteristics and the behaviors. And this is where our principals live. And then the last piece is really around what's your day to day experience. Cause I think if you have amazing principals, but again, your day to day experience is different. That's a big problem. And so for us, that's going to be our focus, but we're doing a lot of experimentation and pilots and we're learning. And it's something that we'll be happy to talk about in the future as well.
Amanda Hammett: 19:47
That's really fantastic.
Gene Hammett: 19:49
Well, we're gonna wrap this up. I one final question. I've heard a lot today, something that I don't hear much in a corporate setting, which is a mindset. I have heard this from my beginnings of becoming a coach. It was like, I guess nine years ago, and I didn't know what it was before that because I was sort of an engineer and I, you know, just get the work done and that's the kind of leader I was. But when I, when I went through this, I realized that the way I was thinking had a huge impact on what I saw and what I did and how I engaged. So what do you do to talk about mindsets and how do you work with your leaders on that?
Fran Katsoudas: 20:30
Yeah, I do think it's incredibly important. You know, one of the things that we do is we talk a lot about servant leadership and I think that's how you start to shift the mindset because basically what you're saying is that as a leader you are in service to the people around you. And that is such a different Lens than get the work done. One of my peers, she did this first and I loved it. Maria Martinez, she showed an org chart and she was at the very bottom of the org chart. And that's a great example of how you start to shift mindset by just signaling no, no, no. Okay. All of the people that I support, they are the important folks in this. And so there are things like that that I think are incredibly important. And then again, yeah, I think just being willing to have conversations that make us think to ask questions that'll make us really pause. I think those are all elements of how you change a mindset.
Gene Hammett: 21:22
So this wraps up a special episode of leaders in the trenches and the next generation rockstars.
Gene Hammett: 21:28
Thank you Fran for being here.
Fran Katsoudas: 21:29
Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: 21:30
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the next generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Fran Katsoudas: Building High Performing Teams appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
How do you manage over 405,000 employees worldwide that represent 5 generations in the workplace? According to Matt Schuyler, CHRO of Hilton, you do it by developing leaders who understand and can bring out the best of everyone, regardless of generation.
Matt Schuyler is Chief Human Resources Officer of Hilton, one of the largest and fastest-growing hospitality companies in the world, with more than 5,500 hotels, resorts and timeshare properties comprising more than 875,000 rooms in 107 countries and territories, serviced by over 410,000 Team Members. Under his leadership, Hilton has been recognized for its exceptional workplace culture, earning the highest honor on the 2019 Fortune Best Companies to Work For® in the U.S. list. In addition, Hilton has been recognized as a World’s Best Workplace and a Great Place to Work in 18 countries.
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The Transcript - Leading 5 Generations in the Workplace Welcome to the Next generation Rock Stars Podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: 00:56
Normally I do my all my interviews via zoom, but we had the opportunity to sit down when I was invited to be a part of the guest's media at the great place to work for 2019 where Hilton hotels were honored as the number one greatest place to work for 2019. So Matt and I had a wonderful conversation about the recruiting and developing, but also about the differences between the five generations that we have in the workplace today. And what does that mean for leadership? How does leadership have to evolve? And really just, you know, what, what do we need to do in order to, to make each and every generation at work happy and productive? So listen in on what Matt has to share with you because he has got some great nuggets to share. Enjoy.
Amanda Hammett: 01:51
All right, so this is Amanda Hammett and I am the host of the next generation rock stars. And I am here today with Matt Schuyler, who is the CHRO of Hilton hotels. Welcome to the show, Matt.
Matt Schuyler: 02:02
Great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Amanda Hammett: 02:04
So, Matt, you have a tremendous honor, and this is actually why I'm sitting down with you because Hilton is the number one greatest place to work in 2019. Is that correct?
Matt Schuyler: 02:14
We are pleased to be ranked and humbled to be ranked number one best company to work for in the US by a great place to work and fortune this cycle.
Amanda Hammett: 02:21
That's amazing. So you and I had a couple of conversations earlier about what I study and that is millennials and Gen z and the whole next generation of talent. So tell us a little bit about what you guys have at Hilton as far as your makeup of generations.
Matt Schuyler: 02:37
Yeah, we are just, right now, passing the 50% mark with respect to millennials in our workforce globally, we have over 405,000 team members under Hilton flags around the world. We track, of course, the demographics associated with that workforce just passing 50% certain parts of the world, though we're well above 50%. In fact, Asia is a great example where we're, 80% millennial in our workforce serving our guests in our Asia Pacific region.
Amanda Hammett: 03:05
That's amazing. So one of the things that I'm really interested in is how this rising generation of millennials has affected the way you recruit and the way that you retain your employees
Matt Schuyler: 03:17
Deeply. In many ways. the way we recruit, the way we engage, the way we retain, the way we motivate and teach have all changed, I think as a result of this generation called millennial who have entered the workplace with technology as a backdrop, high expectations with respect to the impact that they'll make it, the workplace as well as the work they do and with a high demand to learn and grow in their careers, uh, as part of the workforce. So that's, in many ways driven, our programs and initiatives over the past, I'd say four or five years as we start to leverage technology that they've become accustomed to using to help them learn, grow, develop as we've created jobs that we think will be compelling for them for the long run. And as we've worked to engage them in more meaningful ways, in a broader purpose, that we provide to society as a whole and our local communities where we do business.
Amanda Hammett: 04:20
That's amazing. And I know that they really appreciate that. Now let's talk a little bit about retaining them because a lot of what I hear from companies is that millennials are job hoppers. But how do you see that and how have you combated that?
Matt Schuyler: 04:32
Yeah, I understand the sentiment and certainly, I think it's born out of what I mentioned, which is a, there's a deep desire in this generation to Kenny's. You learn, grow, develop, and limited patients. We all live in now the age of service in a moment. And so if I want something this afternoon, I can get it this afternoon. That's different than previous generations. Uh, and so when you lift and shift that to the workplace, if they, this generation of worker, the millennial doesn't see a line of sight to the next opportunity, they will certainly be vocal about it first and foremost. If nothing comes of that vocality they'll choose to leave or move onto something else. Yeah. They will seek out leaders who will help them grow their careers and more meaningful and potentially fast-paced ways. It's not, extreme when you think about it in light of what's happening societally where the world is just moving faster. We have access to so much more information now and so do they internally. I have often said that it used to be that leadership traded on the currency of tenure and that's just not the case any longer because anything, I know technically you can look up in an instant using your mobile device. And so we now believe that leadership must trade on the currency of connecting dots and help to enable the workforce to achieve its objectives and goals. And this resonates with the millennial population. We believe.
Amanda Hammett: 05:55
That was wonderful in the wrapped up very nicely. The question that I was going to ask about how are you helping your leaders to really leverage those millennials?
Matt Schuyler: 06:04
We are just being open and authentic about the fact that for the first time ever, there are five generations in the workplace. Each of those generations has bespoke expectations. But the core underlying tenant of each of those generations interestingly is the same. They want to may have meaningful work. They want to contribute, they want to learn, they want to grow, they want to develop, they want to have some fun. The difference that we see with the millennial generation is just, it's an accelerated expectation set relative to those same goals. They expected faster. They're not willing to wait years and years and years, sometimes decades to achieve those goals. We don't find this to be a bad thing. We think it's helping us sharpen our instrumentation. Yep. And we think it's making us a better employer, which is helping the entire workforce. So this isn't something that we're doing just for millennials. The work that we're doing now to accommodate the new expectations we see in the millennial generation is helping the entire workforce.
Amanda Hammett: 07:00
That is amazing. And every millennial and Gen z is probably going to hear this and a lineup and want to come work at Hilton.
Matt Schuyler: 07:06
We would love that are welcome. We welcome all and we've got great jobs, so we'll look forward to that.
Amanda Hammett: 07:11
Oh, wonderful. Matt, thank you so much for your time. You are amazing and congratulations on your big accomplishment with great places to work.
Matt Schuyler: 07:18
Thanks for the opportunity to share about it. Appreciate it.
Amanda Hammett: 07:21
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the next generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Matt Schuyler: Leading 5 Generations in the Workplace appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Company leaders often fear developing employees only to have them leave. CEO & Founder, Rick Sbrocca takes a different approach to employee development. Rick offers all employees a program he created called "CEO of Your Life" where he encourages employees to not only develop professionally but personally as well.
FREE Download "Fillable CEO of Your Life PDF"
Rick Sbrocca is the Founder & CEO of Spiritus Solutions. After summiting the Fortune 50, Rick became an entrepreneur successfully building multiple companies. Now, having transitioned the core operations of his most recent venture, Rick provides professional services to select clientele.
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The Transcript - Helping Employees Become the CEO of Their Lives Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: Hi, this is Amanda Hammett. I am with Rick Sbrocca today and Rick is one of my leaders who was nominated to be on the show because he is doing a phenomenal job of developing the next generation talent and really leading them up into that, those next levels of their career. So let's welcome Rick to the show. Thanks for being here.
Rick Sbrocca: You Bet. Good Morning Amanda. Thank you for having me on the show.
Amanda Hammett: No worries, no worries. You know, honestly, when I put out the call to have guests on the show, I went to people that I trust and people that I have worked with before clients, all those different people. And Joe Doll, I was really hoping he would nominate you and he did. So I'm so happy to have you.
Rick Sbrocca: Awesome. I'm sorry, I'm happy to be here.
Amanda Hammett: Well good. So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you?
Rick Sbrocca: Sure. So from a business perspective, I started my career after business school, Corporate America, focused on that season for 17 years and had a very successful run to a global leadership position of various business units that were successful. And then my family and I moved from southern California to Northern California to change up our quality of life. And we founded a new company named spirit solutions and it turns co-founded another company named five 11 enterprises and they are focused on helping companies and individuals grow and the high tech space. And that's where we really changed it up. Amanda, when I was in the corporate space working for Fortune 50 companies, the focus was always primarily on the customer as it should be. And when we did our own thing, we decided to conduct an experiment and to make the team members the priorities. So we set a vision statement that put forth, we would create an environment where talents flourish and that was our priority with the values tied to the acronym team for trust, empowerment, accountability and mentoring. So obviously without trust, you can't do anything. We focus very much on empowering them with the right professional development plans and onboarding, holding them accountable through dashboards. And then we're early adopters, leaders in professional mentoring, which really has made the difference in our business. So that's a quick summary of our background and where we're at now.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. I want, you know, I know a little bit about five 11 seasons one we had Denay from five 11 on the show and she was phenomenal. And again, she also was on the show because of Joe Doll. But the way that she talked about the culture and the support that she got a growing professionally, you know, since day one has been, it was something that you, you could just tell was special, not just to her, but just, it's just special and it's different. And I really applaud you and Joe and the whole team over there for, for building this up. He is somebody that probably looking at her resume, she told the story. I mean she was slinging pizza and when she came to work, Joe saw something in her and chat.
Rick Sbrocca: I think the CEO, so he played a major role in that. Yes. You know, our DNA really is predicated upon that vision statement and we took a radical move forward to state that our objective is for the team members to accelerate in all areas of their life. And if we're not doing that in this workspace, then we're failing. Oh, of course, they have to take personal accountability. So that's a very powerful statement and overall, not in all cases, but overall it's, it's been successful. And, and Denay is a perfect example of that. She was delivering pizzas to us on Friday afternoon and we saw really a deep intelligence in her and critical thinking, although her, her IQ hadn't been developed in her confidence. So we took a risk on her and her ascension from pizza delivery person to sales development rep. Now two data analysts really quadrupling her comp is the greatness of the workplace. I mean, that's where we spend most of our time and Harvard Business Review and nailed it where they stated the battlefield is talent, period. It's about recruiting, training, retaining talent.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely.
Rick Sbrocca: So that's our focus.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. That's phenomenal. So let me ask you this. Let's, let's look, take a little look back to your days and the fortune 50 worlds. Um, and I would imagine as you were coming up yourself that you probably witnessed other forms of leadership, other forms of development if you will. And how did that shape own vision for what you wanted in spirit is in 5/11.
Rick Sbrocca: Sure. Thank you. So I was very blessed to have a couple of great mentors that I could go to that taught me how to mature because I always had the talent and the skill, but it was a matter of maturity and managing well to fulfill that, that destiny. So that was, that was the challenge and the solution to the mentors regarding my specific managers and leaders. I saw many examples of what not to do, what to do. And I really break it down into two areas. Either an abundance mentality or a scarcity mentality. And there were those managers that really believed that their team members were infinitely scalable. And if they helped you grow, the tide would rise and everybody would grow with them. And those are the best environments. The opposite of that was scarcity mentality that I've been given this unit of power and control and I'm going to hold onto it very tightly and keep people in their place. And then that limits personal growth and company grows. So those are really the two experiences I had and obviously adopted the if we grow people and surround ourselves with people that are smarter, brighter, better versed in certain areas in ourselves we'll do much better as leaders.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Actually, my company did a study my partner Gene actually works and studies hybrid companies and he focuses on the ink 5,000, and he has studied them significantly and they have all come back and said, it's employee first. We focus on developing employees and they'll take care of the customers 91% of them said that.
Rick Sbrocca: Can't be that.
Amanda Hammett: You can't. Wonderful. So as you were coming up in your own leadership, uh, in, in these fortune 50 companies, did you ever feel pressure from higher-ups or corporate boards or, or anything like that to focus more on the numbers and delivering performance versus, you know, developing your people?
Rick Sbrocca: Yeah, absolutely. At the end of the day it's about the numbers and, and hopefully, the metrics are well balanced. I liked the Drucker institute scoreboard that they keep a card that they keep around financial health, employee health, customer health innovation, and social responsibility. So hopefully the numbers are balanced within that context. I was in the sales marketing channels area, so typically there was a quota and you know, when it got to the end of the quarter, sometimes we had values free moments where we had to focus on getting the number and that's what it was about. And over time, as I became more confident in myself and my own character, I made certain that I was honoring relationships and results and that they are not mutually exclusive. They're jointly exhausted and that has served me well.
Amanda Hammett: Perfect. Now, what about, you know, you've had quite a long career so far but you've seen the influx of millennials, now you're starting to see the influx of Gen z and to the workplace, you know, what influence have they brought into the workplace? What changes have you seen and what do you, what do you predict going forward?
Rick Sbrocca: Sure, great question. So I operate on a universal code regardless of the generational big man. And that is that everybody longs to feel and be significant and that every human being is infinitely scalable. So I start with that precept and from there really seek to be truthful and authentic and real and to listen and then to find the common vision for, for excellence. So without is the foundation. I've discovered that it's more important than ever to be very open-minded and to listen carefully as we started hiring millennials. And that's a very broad age range now. Yes, in 23 and 38 and there's a lot of factors within now regarding the country of origin, socioeconomic factors, gender, creation, diversity, etc. So I don't want to over homogenize them, but I have found them to be absolutely delightful and inspiring.
Rick Sbrocca: They're extremely energetic. They're extremely bright, they're tech-savvy, and they're not settling. They want to change the world for the better. They've been through some economic downturns. They have been through situations where the families have always stayed together and they have great ideas. I think it's a disservice for us to be wrapped up, not us specifically, but the space in this word entitlement. I don't, I don't really see that at all. I see that as a leadership responsibility to teach a process that they would come regarding their, they're great ambitions in there. They're phenomenal energy and work ethic that we would, we would meet that with our wisdom on what's the process look like and teach the process and engage in multigenerational mentoring where we're listening first and then responding and together we're moving the ball forward. So they've taught me to be a much better listener and how to, to work together regarding Gen Z. We're starting to work with them more and more.
Rick Sbrocca: I'm in. This isn't based on scientific research, it's, it's our experience. I'm finding them to be equally high potential in a different way. Seem to be focusing more on a conservative approach of job security and a career path. Mentoring is very important, not quite as radical. If I can use that term about changing the world and changing things that aren't right. They're looking to create a strong, stable career path and lifestyle at 10. Again, we're having to listen very closely to them and understand where they're coming from. Handshake is their professional community. They did a survey, very interesting in the top five. Gen Z is asking for mental health resources at work. So I think that's an important trend you're asking about where I see it going. That's an important trend. Google did a study a few years back entitled Aristotle, and it was about cultural development.
Rick Sbrocca: One of the findings was psychological safety or trust in the workplace. So a couple of the trends that I see and that we're helping to shape our, our number one, what I would call humanistic influencers. So we hear about AI and ml over and over and over and that's awesome. I'm, I'm fully for that. I think it's also going to create info versus reserve funds of humanistic influencers that are important to merge with the rise of A.I For our best overall success. And it goes back to talent. At the end of the day, this is all about talent, so I find that to be very fascinating. The other one that we focused on as we've discussed them and Israeli life-work integration, Apple hired me a while back to talk to them about work-life balance because one of their managers, it's said, this is a quote that the sheer velocity and ambiguity, that business is breaking down our people and it's spilling over into their personal lives.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely good.
Rick Sbrocca: After this work-life balance thing, we found out it was really a myth. You know, there is no work-life balance. It's a series of sprints and recoveries. It's a sprint sprinter, Ethan, and so we've developed our own content around life-work integration and work has certainly crept in through our life. Has it not?
Amanda Hammett: Oh, for sure. For sure.
Rick Sbrocca: Very important. Now that we give equal respect and integrity to live being honored within this new growing, changing, dynamic workspace, what we focus on that very much what we call a complete life victory. We prepare professional development person. This is all voluntary per the team members desire to state their overall goals around getting out of debt. Right. We're in relationships or whatever it may be. And we found that if we can tap into that, because Gallup's found approximately 70% of the people really aren't highly engaged at work. So, you know, that's unacceptable. Why is that? And people are going to have to do certain jobs that they may or may not like, but if you can tie it to their burning passion for moving their life forward, then you have a win-win together. And that's what we see is a major trend and a major differentiator.
Amanda Hammett: Right. Absolutely. Well, you know, I think you've touched on this a little bit, but I'd like for you to be pretty specific right here. you know, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about your program, the CEO of your life program and how that has really affected your, your leadership style. And you know, you've definitely touched on it, but let's, let's be very specific with, with the audience on this.
Rick Sbrocca: Sure, Well, when I was in a corporate position and rising rapidly work was my priority and I was doing an excellent job at work. However, I was not doing an excellent job managing my other priorities in myself by my spirit, my soul, and my body, my family, etc. And through that painful lesson, I learned the importance of what we call complete like victory. So we teach complete lie victory through workshops to our team members. These are off hours and we typically, you're getting 98% attendance. And it's about really maximizing your purpose, your life, and your work together as CEO of your life. That you're accountable. It is a meritocracy. And here's the operative word, Amanda. It's processing. A lot of people are understanding why. Yeah. But they don't know the process to really understand where they're at in life.
Rick Sbrocca: You know, we, I don't want to get too deep into this, but we have heredity and environment, which we can't really control. But then we have our response-ability response table or what we can't control. So we're helping a lot of people just process things even are very focused on them. Speaking with professional counselors to let it go, burn, burn it down, whatever is holding you back, here's your future. And then from there then we can set goals around what we call a life echo system. It's not a balanced wheel, it's an always changing ecosystem. And then we taught them to go through setting goals, plans, resources, and how to actually achieve results. Yeah, that's what the core curriculum is all about. We've put over 400 people through the, through the program, their graduates and I mentor many of them. And for the people that do the work for the people that work the plan, it works. And we've, yeah, we've seen some miraculous transformations from people that were desperate. They've gone to a very high level of earning and that's secondary. That's important. But it's secondary walking in confidence and economic empowerment and feeling significant and then being able to raise a family in a strong manner and then support your community. And so work is vital and were runs on the fuel of talent and it's becoming much broader in the sense of our responsibilities that we're seeing today.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah, I would agree with that.
Rick Sbrocca: Will help that talent stay engaged.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Yeah. So let me ask you this if I understand this correctly, you said that this is something that you offer to your employees' free benefit. And to me, that's a tremendous value. I mean, that's almost something you can't put a number on as far as what that's going to teach them and allow them to set up for themselves if they do the work moving forward for the rest of their lives. I mean, that's, that's tremendous. yeah, that, that is really tremendous. I really don't even have words around that. That's a tremendous benefit beyond the normal salary. And vacation time and health benefits, those things. I mean, that's a tremendous additional benefit that most young people probably aren't aware of or even thinking of like this is a possibility that a company could offer this to me. I'm going to have to figure this out myself. So that's wonderful.
Rick Sbrocca: Yeah, it's, it's, it's our responsibility to meet them where they're at. And especially Gen Z, they're coming in. It's the first generation fully raised on technology and there are some great positives from that. There are also some challenges around maturity and communicating and listening and processing this avalanche of information every day and how to sort it and then how to move to a maturation path. So we're not caught in the Peter Pan Principle. Right. And I think a lot of companies allow their workers to stay in and it, it's not a solid, healthy longterm for the individual or the company.
Amanda Hammett: No, it's, unfortunately, it's not. And it fuels and an additional retention issue for these companies, which is expensive. Exactly. Not to mention productivity and all that good stuff. So it's a machine that feeds itself, so, yeah. All right. Well, what would you, I would imagine that there has been some sort of financial benefit to that you found through developing your employees in this way or are in developing them. And another way that maybe you haven't mentioned it, have you found there to be a direct correlation between their development and the bottom line at the end of the quarter, at the end of the year, things like that?
Rick Sbrocca: Absolutely. There's a, there's a strong specific ROI case around this type of leadership and first and foremost, it relates to the customer experience. Yeah. And we receive incredible feedback from our prospects and customers even when they don't do business with us because our team is engaged, it's energetic and they care. They're not robots making their calls and just trying to hit it hit a quota. And that matters more and more the marketplace has become numb and certain areas because there's been so activity around selling things and we're adopting a very personalized approach to that in a very respectful approach. So the first Roi is in the net promoters scores the NPS scores that are indexing the norm. And I think that's number one. And then number two is in pure profit, our retention rates are of the talent are exponentially better than the benchmark competitors we have and in design in different cities because you know, the cost of training somebody in losing them straight away and on average our team members are attained to a multiple of two to three x her the per the norm.
Amanda Hammett: really?
Rick Sbrocca: Yeah, that'd be perfect. It's huge. And I think the other metric that we don't have is, is the quality of their work while there while they're working to be excited about going to work, doing a great job, which takes a tremendous amount of energy. But the Roi case is absolutely there. And I believe corporations are starting to realize that HR is vital. I know they realize this because I read the human capital trends research and it's important that we accelerate our adoption of, of programs like ours to help the employees succeed, which in turn will help the company succeed.
Amanda Hammett: I couldn't agree with that more. And just going back to your, your client base, I happen to know one of your clients and him, he was actually the reason I was introduced to Joe Dell, to begin with, and he just raved about your, an SDR rep about how good they were and just how vital they were. And he was raving not only to me but to a group of other people about how good they were. And actually, Joe was a little like embarrassed for a moment because he was just going on and on about how great.
Rick Sbrocca: Grateful to hear that.
Amanda Hammett: All right. So let me ask you this. I know that you have millennial children of your own yes. But you also mentor a lot of people as you've mentioned. So if you could only give one piece of advice, just one thing, um, to early career. So somebody who's been in the workforce less than five years if you could give them one piece of advice about their career, what would it be?
Rick Sbrocca: It would be focused on dynamic, personalized learning that they would, they would prioritize that not just through their formal academic experience and their onboarding, but every single day because things are changing that much and there's a technology that can help us through micro learning platforms, etc. But I believe it's very important if I was starting out to focus on that, to dedicate a percentage of the week to formal learning in my space and then more importantly to listen, listen, listen to my team and to also study other companies that are doing well on how they're treating their team members. And I would suggest under this umbrella of active dynamic personalized learning that they would establish multigenerational advisory councils. So they would have team members that they're managing other seasoned wise leaders in the company that would, that would collaborate around what needs to get done. And we've seen great, great, great results in that area. Chip Conley is really a thought leader in this space of multigenerational mentoring. It's, it's so simple yet, I don't know why more companies don't invest in it and do it well, I can tell you some stories that will blow your mind when you go offline. But that's what I would focus on learning but in a very creative dynamic, personalized way that that orchestrates different resources.
Amanda Hammett: Excellent. That's a great, fantastic answer actually. Perfect. Perfect. So I would like to share with the audience something really quickly. Rick has been really generous. He has offered to give me a copy of his CEO of your life program, which is phenomenal. I, he's told you a little bit about it today, but I feel like that's probably just scratching the surface. And in turn, he is actually allowing me to share it with you. So there it is right there on the screen. So if you are interested, we are going to have a link below where you can go ahead and snag a copy for yourself because I don't know if your company is offering anything like this, but if they aren't, you guys need to get in touch with Rick and see about bringing it to your company. Well, Rick, thank you so much.
Amanda Hammett: This has been such a pleasure. You know, I feel like you and I are really in line with a lot of the ways that we see things and I'm just, I'm really, I feel very fortunate to have met you even though it's been through the screen, but still, I feel very much.
Rick Sbrocca: Okay. Take care.
Amanda Hammett: All right. See you guys in the next episode up. Next Generation Rock stars. All right, so I hope that you took lots and lots of notes just like I did during that interview with Rick Sbrocca of the spirit of solutions. Rick shared so much in that short amount of time. I think one of the biggest takeaways though for me was his CEO of your life program and that program, he is just, he's using it to develop his people not just in their professional life but also in their personal lives and so that they can grow very holistically and hopefully eventually that that means long, long term retention.
Amanda Hammett: That means higher levels of productivity, which of course were salts and higher levels of profitability. And Rick has been gracious enough to offer that to me so that I can share it with you guys in this audience of I do hope that you click on the link below and you download the CEO of your life program. But more importantly than just downloading the program, I hope that you actually implement it because implementing the program is where it is all about it. That's where life change happens. That's where the increases in, in your happiness really in your life. That is where it happens. So you've gotta be willing to change to make those big leaps in your life. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Next Generation Rockstars. Keep listening for next week where we will have another phenomenal leader who is helping to develop the next generation of talent. See you then.
Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Rick Sbrocca: Helping Employees Become the CEO of Their Lives appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Employee development pays long term dividends. However, most companies only focus on developing employees at certain levels. Learn how creating a culture where developing employees at ALL levels can change an entire community.
Alan Cherry is the Director of Human Resources at rPlanet Earth. Human Resources Executive with over 25 years of global Human Resources experience gained in Europe, North America, and the Asia Pacific. Serial start-up offender and car guy who loves working in high-technology, automotive and manufacturing industries.
He is also the Senior Director of Human Resources at Tesla Motors. He built the HR and facilities functions from scratch. Today there is a team of 20+ full-time recruiters, global mobility capability, a solid Compensation and Benefits function with expert Employee Relations capabilities and a comprehensive Facilities and Construction department.
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The Transcript - Company Culture is More Than Beer in the Fridge Welcome to the next generation Rock Stars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: Welcome to today's episode up Next Generation Rock Stars. We are featuring Alan Cherry who is the head of HR and a company called rPlanet earth, which is doing some phenomenal things for the environment. I'm really excited for you to hear all about them, but not just the environment as a whole. Actually rPlanet earth is doing some really cool things too in a very disadvantaged part of la where they are based, where their plant is based. Uh, so you'll definitely have to check that out. But one of the things that Alan and I talked about was his experience being in HR for some major startup companies, companies like Tesla just to name one that have really built cultures and he's played a major and pivotal role in building these cultures of working with really smart, talented people.
Amanda Hammett: But also what is that like and how do you find that? So he talks a lot about, about company culture. He talks a lot about some, maybe some red flags for you, younger listeners who are looking at getting a new job or your very first job. But he also talks about leaders and what they need to know and how they need to build their own skillset so that they can really get and retain that top talent and actually how to motivate that talent and keep them moving forward. So check out this episode. I think that you are going to love it. Alan is just a wonderful, wonderful guests. Um, and yeah, to see you at the end.
Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the next generation rockstars. And today I have a super special guest. I have Alan Cherry of our planet earth. Alan, welcome to the show.
Alan Cherry: Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here.
Amanda Hammett: Well, wonderful. Wonderful. So Alan, I have already given a little bit of an intro to you leading into this, but why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Alan Cherry: So I'm a long time a HR professional who's worked been fortunate enough to work for a number of the very smart companies. I've always chosen to follow a product or a passion as I think you just are more motivated when you do that. So I've worked for companies that have been part of fortune's 500 great places to work. I like Greek cultures. I like great people. I like working with smart and talented individuals.
Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. Well wonderful. Don't we all like working with smart and talented in jury trials.
Alan Cherry: Whenever possible. Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: It makes the world a little bit easier. All right. So, since you are in the position of really helping a company shape their culture by bringing in their people, why don't you share with us a little bit about your general ideas around company culture? Like what are you, what are you looking for? What are you looking to shape and learn each time?
Alan Cherry: So I think with company culture there is no magic one that you wave and you have a beautiful culture. I think it's the actions and behaviors of every individual every day that makes the culture. So when you, when you're in a startup, as I have been in many companies and I am here and there's, you know, five guys around the kitchen table talking about what we're interested in, it's at that point that you get them to align with the ideas that building a culture is about finding individuals one by one and telling them a story, getting them to buy into a vision of what we're trying to create. And finding people that share your values, people that share your passion because you, as you grow, you're never going to be in a position where you can totally control the culture. If you think about it, every time you double the amount of people you have, that's half as many people again, who don't share the original culture of the founding five.
Alan Cherry: So you keep doubling the numbers. You have to have people that actually buy into it and are aligned with it and we'll pass it on. So it becomes a kind of self propagating a deal here. And that's what we're looking for. We are hiring individuals with a similar mindset, you know, and it can be as dumb as, you know, people who pick up trash on the way and people who shut the door, people who treat each other respectfully. People who just want to be part of something special.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah.
Alan Cherry: And then elevate their game in order to do that. And that is what builds a culture. It's not about giving free snacks or buying company lunches. That's not the culture at all three, you know? So I think it's a very much down to the individuals that you hire. And if you bring in the right quality, the right talent, they will create the culture for you.
Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. All right. So that's really some interesting things that you had to say about company culture. I love that because I think so many people are wrapped up in this idea of I need to provide ping pong tables and beer in the fridge and things like that. And that's fine if that's what you want, but it's not about that. It's about that.
Alan Cherry: It wasn't that proven in the great crash of 2001 where all these startups and incubators had as you say, pool tables and beer in the fridge and no business, you know, I mean you have to start with a good business plan, a good idea. You have to have individuals that can talk to the story and then people join because they believe in what you're doing and they're passionate about it. That's what makes great business performance. Not beer in the fringe.
Amanda Hammett: I agree wholeheartedly. So let's talk a little bit about your ideas around um, developing and leading next generation talent. I mean you, you spend a lot of time in the trenches and the looking at recruiting and looking at bringing in those people. So what is your idea around that? How do you see that for a company?
Alan Cherry: So the, what we practice here and what we talk about here is that learning and development is available to everyone. It doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what job you do. I work closely with the managers every day to ensure the messaging that's going out to the employees is that everybody can learn, everybody can grow and there are opportunities to build a career plan and to get the development to that you're seeking in order to get a more responsible job and to move on in that way. So, you know, a lot of people only think about exempt professional employees when they think about learning and development. And that's just not there in my mind, the right way to go about it. You know, we have people here who are, you know, Allie Page sweepers and cleaners and we get good retention because we give them an opportunity to learn and grow an opportunity to, you know work up to a forklift driver to go from a forklift driver to a machine operator to go from a machine operator to a supervisor or a lead to get some professional help. In terms of developing your relationship skills, how do you build a team? How do you motivate employees? You know, pretty basic skills, you might argue, but a lot of people, you know, they didn't go to school and didn't go to university like the professional people, but they still want to learn. And I think we, we feed that beast.
Amanda Hammett: Right. Well, I mean just to your point, their eyes on, you know, the differences between people that went to university and that didn't, you know, some of the people that did go to university, they may have learned some of those management and leadership skills, but actually putting them into practice I have found sometimes is a, there seems to be a block there.
Alan Cherry: Absolutely. No, I mean I, some of the worst managers I've seen have been the most educated, you know, so it's, it's not a question that education makes the person and they're all you know, popped out like great managers. They think they're great managers because they've got an MBA. Actually they're horrible managers because they haven't got any of the soft skills that I would value. Yes. I think that management is a, you know, is a contact sport. It's really about getting in close, talking to people, building relationships and coaching them, coaching such an underrated you know, a skill. People tend to think that you're going to do some fancy a, you know, career planning and you're going to talk about sending people on a program. And really 99% of what you learn is on the job day to day, being coached and on and actually understanding the value of what you're doing. It's not about going on a program.
Amanda Hammett: I couldn't agree with that more. I think that that's a really valuable and valid point there. Oh gosh, I have so many things that I, now I'm all like, oh, I need to ask
Alan Cherry: What was interesting. Let's talk about that. The important thing here is to say that, you know, what we're trying to do here and it's the first time for me is to do something very different with a whole range of people that typically a lot of, uh, you know, high tech professional HR people don't really come into contact with, which is that are, you know, that our array of people from the very lowest level, you know, cleaner sweeper kind of person up to the professional leaders and to try and be a beacon in the community for doing things better. You know, we're in a very disadvantaged area here. You know, typically we wouldn't be the kind of company with the kind of jobs that you would see in this area. And so we're trying to prove that it's possible to do the, you know, the holy grail of being successful in business with a great culture that treats people properly and that we believe everybody will respond to that message saying, we're working with the local community association, we're working with homeboy industries who have previously incarcerated people and they just like everybody else want to actually do better. They want to learn and grow and they want to build a career. So we're offering something that's very, very different in this area to a range of people. When we found that the take up, the interest, the passion is there across the board.
Amanda Hammett: I agree. So what I want to point out and for the audience here is that our planet earth is actually located in an area of La that is, you know, disadvantage. It's not the, it's not the, you know, palm tree lined streets that when you think of La that you think of, I mean, this is a very disadvantaged area. This is the socioeconomic area is just
Alan Cherry: Not immigrants. Second generation immigrants who are very close to poverty, a number of people sleeping on the streets. You know, this is, this is, this is not the high tech Silicon Valley areas that you see on the, in the press every day or on the news. But we're fighting a different battle here, but it's one that we've chosen to, to take on one that I believe we're winning.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. So I'd like for you to share with the a little bit more. And you and I had a previous conversation about this and I just, I love what you're doing. Um, so I would like for you guys to share with us, you know, what, what is the whole idea around recruiting? How are you guys going about making a shift in that, in that area? And not just a shift economically in that area, but also in the people that live in that area. How are you affecting?
Alan Cherry: We're basically reaching out to a lot of different people in many different walks of life. And my belief is that there's no one single program that will bring you all the people that you need. So we do work closely with the local community association. We do work with homeboy industries. We put banners on the side of our building. We do all the basic stuff that would, uh, you know, attract hourly pay people who are not looking on, you know, one of the social media sites to find their next position. So that's where we get our kind of a more basic level people. Then we also talk to the a recruitment agents. We have a group of recruitment agents that work very closely with us who have been to the plant to done a tall, they understand our positions, they understand our culture, they know the kind of talent that we're looking for.
Alan Cherry: And then right up to the more senior professionals, the professional engineers, um, and the leadership positions, we work either with agencies or we would post positions ourselves. We run on an interesting website that explains our business, explains after philosophy. And I think that's where the connection comes. And you do find that everybody, you know, from the very lowest level, right the way through. We'll have access to a computer these days. We'll find our website and we'll read what we've written and they'll buy into the vision that we're doing something good for the community. We're doing something good for the environment. It's a job that even if even at the lowest level is satisfying because you understand the vision of the company, you know, removing all the plastic from the oceans and removing plastic from landfill, giving people an opportunity to have end to end closed loop recycling where in essence a used bottle can become a new bottle again is something that will change the way that we recycled plastic and the way we think about plastic. So that's really the vision that we sell and it resonates with people.
Amanda Hammett: And it sounds like it resonates with people at all levels.
Alan Cherry: Yeah. Right across the board you'll find, you know, almost everybody has a story. You know, very often I get some guy comes in, he's going to be a, you know, a machine operator and I'm talking to him about why he's interested and he says, my daughter says we have to do this. And then that's the truth. You know, maybe some of the older people that we have don't quite get it, but certainly their family doesn't, their kids do. And the kids have told them, you should do that. It's really important, and that's really, it's the truth. It is really important. And what we wanted to do in HR is to make it important, not just because of the passion and the vision of the company and the business success, but also because we can be this beacon in the community and we can prove that you don't have to have dirty low paying jobs just because it's a tough area. You can bring a progressive professional environment into this area and be successful in business and give people the opportunities they deserve.
Amanda Hammett: That's amazing. So let me ask you this question. When you're interviewing or when you're looking to bring in someone new at any level and they're considered young talents, so 30 and under, What is it that really stands out to you? Is there a specific character trait? Is there a specific skill set? I don't know that you're looking at that makes you go, that person's going to be a rock star and they're going to be very successful here?
Alan Cherry: Yeah. I think you know, whether it's a millennial or anybody else, there's, there's this, the similar kind of themes that play here. You know, I really liked to talk to somebody that has a plan, somebody that's thoughtful about why they're picking the companies they're working for, why they're picking the managers that they're going to be working closely under. You know, why are they picking this company? Because it has learning and development because it has a good culture because it has a good vision. You know, we're looking for that energy, that passion, that thoughtfulness. And I think they're on a trajectory that you can see all the way through their career. You know, they didn't just do a, this school and this type of education because it was kind of fun. They did it because they thought about it and they knew where it would fit in as part of the building block of their career.
Alan Cherry: And so when they go to take their first or second and the third job, you can see that they're mindful of where they're headed and they're confident of their approach. I also like to see a little humility. You know, one of the biggest things that trips people up is arrogance. You know, people who are, they have a great education. They're definitely on a great trajectory, but they're not right for us if there are arrogant and not right for us if they think just deserved, you know, we want people to still have that little bit of hunger, have that passion, have that burning in their eyes that they're looking for something and they're appreciative of the opportunity. And they know they have to prove themselves.
Amanda Hammett: That's fantastic. I really do agree with that. Arrogance is the downfall of some of the greatest people in the world or, you know, so
Alan Cherry: Let me know if you, if you're comparing cultures, you know, you can see, you know, cultures build and grow and do excellent work at attracting and retaining and making performance. And you can see, uh, you know, other cultures that completely, squash that. And he's normally where you have very strong, very aggressive, you know, arrogant leaders who basically pushed down on the people and they believe poor performance is gained, you know, by the stick rather than the carrot. And it's been pretty well proven that yeah, you can get some short term gains if you Talenti but you're not going to do it long term. People will figure it out and they'll go and work somewhere else. And I think the thing that I'm really thankful for millennials for is that they basically pushed back on that kind of management and background of the company and they've said, no, we're actually, we're not purely, you know, driven by money. We're actually looking for satisfying careers in companies that are trying to make a difference in the environment. We want to do better for the world. And it can be accused of being a little soft, but I don't think that's anything near as bad as being a little too hard. So I'll take a little soft every time. Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: Thank you, Alan Cherry, that was quite an endorsement from you. Um, so let's, let's talk a little bit about this and you, you kind of alluded to this in the last answer that you gave, but I would imagine through your career you've been at multiple startups, you've been at some wonderful companies. But I would imagine that you have witnessed and experienced on your own some other different forms of leadership, different styles of leadership and how did that actually shape your vision of the kind of culture you want it to help create and also your own leadership style?
Alan Cherry: Yeah, I've seen some, I mean, at a certain point you, you turn around in your career maybe when you're like mid career and you think, well now I've worked for four or five companies, I've seen a range of different cultures and management styles and I've seen varying degrees of business success. And you start to, if you're thoughtful, put together, where would I like to work? What would be my perfect company if I had that dream to do whatever I wanted? And you're playing off usually between business success and a great culture. And it's almost as though people tell you those things are binary and you can't have both. I'm a bit of a dreamer and I do believe you can have both. You know, I don't want to work for a great company that's totally unsuccessful, but neither do I want to work for a totally successful company that's miserable to work for.
Alan Cherry: I think you've got to find that happy balance in the middle. And I think with the right leadership and the right employees and the culture that you're building, you know, one employee at a time, then I think you do create that culture that is both a driven, a successful business, successful company with a great culture does treat people well. It doesn't mean you give people an easy ride or a free ride. We're not saying that at all. We're actually saying you're going to get challenged every day. You're going to get pushed to do more. You're gonna get driven to sign up the bigger responsibilities and to do more with your life and your career. But we're not, you know, we're not going to relent at all on that side because that's what leads to great business success. And we're looking for people that stay the course, not people that come in and do nine months and then quit. We want people that will stick with us. We want people that are in this for the long haul and they'll seek, seek out the kind of companies that have that longer term vision and they'll be successful and they'll stay with those companies and they will learn and grow and they will develop much better skills and have more satisfaction.
Amanda Hammett: So let me ask you this, and this just totally popped in my head when you were talking. What is your take on failure at work?
Alan Cherry: So I mean, failure is it, that's like saying, you know, what are your weaknesses? You know what I mean? And we turned weaknesses and we say that there are no weaknesses. There's only development, you know. And this, the same with failure. Failure. Usually a council, it could be business failure or it could be failure of a personal nature and is okay, use good. If you, if you learn from it you can go to a startup. And I've been at a startup that had a great vision. It had a great product, had incredible technology, but it was technology chasing a market and the market didn't really exist. So we were kidding ourselves and telling ourselves how wonderfully clever we are on we're to develop this product, to have this technology, have all these smart people. But really we were diluting ourselves because there was no market there.
Alan Cherry: So the learning was great. You know, you can be as smart as you like. It doesn't matter if there's no market for what you're selling, you'll never be business successful. You know, this is like the difference between if you're old enough to remember Betamax and DHS, you know, in the different a recording systems, you know, Betamax was actually a much better system, technically much better, more advanced than VHS. But it didn't when VHS won because the market wanted achieve the lighter, softer, more available system. And so once again, you know, the learning comes through every time that you have to have alignment with everything that you're doing. So an individual can learn and accompany can learn. And when you choose the place that you work, when you choose the, uh, the company with a product or a technology, you have to ask yourself that question because it will obviously influence everything you do when you get to that company.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So let me ask you this. What would you say has been the biggest influence or shifts that you've seen in the workforce as these younger generations have come on as millennials have come in and now we're starting to see genex come into the workforce? What shifts and changes are you seeing?
Alan Cherry: So I think there is a shift in terms of, as we've kind of alluded to earlier, that, uh, you know, you see the younger people come in and on one hand, one side, they're exactly the same as every other generation. And there's a bunch of really smart ones as a bunch of really hard working ones. There's some people that are still finding their way and there's some people that have given up. And that's the same in every generation. I think the, the millennials and the gen x people have started to shift the world a little in that they're pushing back on some of the accepted ways of working which were very old school where, you know, you have to come in on this hour and you have to leave at that hour. You can't really do anything else unless you come to work. You know, working from home means you're a slacker.
Alan Cherry: I think those notions are changing dramatically where, I don't know what the latest number is, but I think they said something like 60% of people work at home at some time during during the month or the week nowadays. And I think that is a much greater degree of freedom for people. And I think you'll find, not that they will abuse it, but they will actually respect it and perform better because of it. Whether they're able to raise a child, whether they're able to take a job with a longer commute because they don't have to go every day, you know, it gives so much more flexibility to the workforce. Then also we would thank that those new generations for pointing out that you know, satisfying, meaningful work that actually is valuable to the community and the environment and the world is actually a really, really good thing. And people will be so much more passionate and hardworking about it rather than just taking a job that pays well.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah, absolutely. And it's not a, it's not a pipe dream. It actually can be reality.
Alan Cherry: And actually the, once again, the two things come together. If you find something that's really meaningful to you, you work hard at it, you're successful on it. And guess what? The world likes it as well. They buy it and we're all successful. So you can have both sides of the house. It doesn't have to be business success or a great culture. It can be both.
Amanda Hammett: I agree with that. I agree wholeheartedly. So what I see a lot of leaders struggle with is making that connection. They may be at a company, that has a great vision and is doing good in the world, but they're having a hard time making those connections for some of their employees that maybe aren't on the front lines and doing the cool innovative things. They may be, you know, sweeping the floor or you know, doing payroll or something that's maybe not quote unquote exciting and innovative, but they're having a hard time making connection as to why that's important. So what would you say to a leader who's struggling with that?
Alan Cherry: So again, it's really back to the, the fact that it's, you know, talking to the individuals every day in every way. You know, management is not an end of year writing of the review. And I'm a manager, no management does every day in every way. And it's, it's a, it's like gardening, you know, you want, you have to wait and feed every day. You can't just go and do the garden. We do weeding on once a month. It doesn't work like that, you know? And I think that's what good leaders do. Good leaders know. They have to, build a relationship with that. People they have to, you know, before they tell them something, they have to ask some questions. You know, what's going on in your life, where are you today? How are you feeling? You know, because we all live arrange of different lives. You know, where the worker, where the, where the father, where the sun, where whatever, you know, there's tons of different pieces to our world and we don't all show up every day completely brimming with passion. And that's not the reality of it. Sometimes we needed a little pick me up. Sometimes we need you to put an arm around my shoulder. Sometimes I need a little bit of a kick to get me going. You know? And all those things are the right answer at the right time.
Alan Cherry: So I think the good managers, good leaders, they take that responsibility and they explained to people that, you know, they, they look at the bread crumbs and they joined the dots for them to show that, hey, you might be a sweep for today, but do you realize if you did that job really well in three months, you might get the next job, which would be a forklift driver. And then you're taking the bales of used plastic and you're putting them into the recycling so that we can grind them up and we can make them into new plastic structures, which means we don't have to bury them in the ground or throw them in the ocean. That's why it's important.
Alan Cherry: You can make those connections that every level with every different job. And I think the good managers will engage their employees. You know, I mean an engagement and motivation are very different. You know, I can beat you with a stick and tell you you're motivated to do the job, but if I engage you, you do that yourself. You provide the motivation and it's worth three x me motivating you. And that that's where the good managers go. Yeah. Hey, sweeping the streets in whatever is maybe not the most exciting job, but it has a career element to it. Think about the skills that you could learn. You know, we would send, we send our people at that level, they go on English training, so they're going to basically develop their language skills so they can be more effective in the workplace. You know, there are a lot of things you can learn. They come to our toastmasters club and learn how to communicate better. You know? So yeah, maybe the cleaning and sweeping and driving forklifts, but they're still doing some skill building which will be useful in the future.
Amanda Hammett: I love that. And you know, one of the things that I think that Millennials have done a good job as really pushing back on that leadership style. Because when I early in my career join the workforce, I worked for Fortune 50 Company and the leadership style was very much like, you do this because I told you to do this. There was no guiding, there was no coaching, there was no nothing. It was just get it done. I don't care how it happens, just do it. And so now I think that that's one of the things that Millennials have done is they have really pressed that issue and required managers to grow from just get it done to actually empathetic heart more heartlab like we're human to human connecting here at at work and this is what we need to do to accomplish a goal together as a team.
Alan Cherry: Absolutely. If you hire the right people, then a good manager, a good leader would never want to just tell you what to do because the, the, the trick of of leadership is I will tell you what needs to be done. Yes. But you to bring the creativity and the passion and the involvement into how it is done. Yes. And we can discuss the standard to which it will be finished and I think that's where the interest is and the young people that I work with or are so passionate and so hardworking and so enthusiastic about what we're doing and how it is impacting the world. They love coming to work in the morning and doing that whole, whether it's as you say, a payroll manager or a junior engineer or a technician, you see the same responsibility, the same pickup that you get in, in any level of work. And it changes the way we actually get business performance. And I don't think, you know, the old school manager who tells you what to do and tells you how to do it looks over your shoulder every five minutes to get anywhere near the same result that we see.
Amanda Hammett: I love that. So let me ask you this. What advice would you give for any young talent, any young employee or are actually for anybody for that matter, as you're looking at as they're looking at companies that are out there interviewing, they're looking for a new position. Are there any red flags that would just tell them, hey, that that culture is not great, that's going to be toxic. You're not going to be happy. Is there anything that just really stands out to you?
Alan Cherry: It's terrible. I think I, when I teach interview skills and I'm teaching my managers, I say to them, you know, I'll teach you all the skills and then at the end of the day, the most important thing I'm going to teach you is trust your gut. If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't right? Yes. If the person is interviewing you, feels aggressive, feels controlling, discusses this is what you will do. This is how you will do it. You know, it's an automaton speaking, and I think that tells you far more than anything that they've actually told you. You know, the words they can say can mean anything, but the way that they say the relationship, even in an interview, that they build, the messages you got as you walk through the front door, as you talk to the receptionist, as you walk through the offices, as you sat down in the interview room, you're picking up signals all the way along do not ignore those signals. You will know if you're in a good company with good energy, you will know if it's a company that has a vision and a business that interests you, if you don't follow your passion is only going to be a job, right? And then you could be successful but not really successful. It'll never be satisfying and successful and therefore you'll never really get your dream job.
Amanda Hammett: All right. So Alan, what is your favorite leadership book of all time?
Alan Cherry: I didn't really have a favorite, but I liked sacred hoops, um, by Phil Jackson, which I, uh, I know nothing about basketball so I put my arms up there, but I liked the fact that he, he was able to take very strong minded individuals who, uh, extremely, uh, passionate veering into arrogant and basically show them that they would never achieve anything unless they could work with others and collaborate and build a vision together and then go execute. And that's the, an incredible metaphor for business in that you will never achieve anything if you think you're going to do it all on your own. You know, business is a collaborative sport. There is nothing we do here that an individual does completely on their own to be successful. They're always working in a team and they're always part of a successful company.
Amanda Hammett: Wow. I so I have nothing that I can add to that. So thank you very much Alan, for being here.
Alan Cherry: Thank you. It's been pleasure.
Amanda Hammett: Thank you. All right, audience. Thank you guys so much for joining Alan and I and we will see you in the next episode.
Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rock Stars where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
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Rapid growth as a company can be challenging...but growing over 39,000% brings its own set of headaches. Learn from Ben Wright, CEO of Velocity Global on how they only hire 10's.
Ben Wright is the CEO, Founder at Velocity Global, LLC. #4 on the Inc 5000. Proven leader with an exceptionally strong focus on client satisfaction. Significant experience with building and growing organizations, enhancing brand awareness and capturing market share.
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The Transcript - How to Hire Next Generation Rockstars Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett with the Next Generation of Rockstars. And today we have Ben Wright with Velocity Global. Ben, welcome to the show.
Ben Wright: Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: Oh, no problems, no problems. So you are actually a guest on my husband's show. My husband's show, is Leaders in the Trenches, and he really digs in and studies the Inc 5,000 and after he interviewed you, he was like, he needs to be on your show. So tell us a little bit about you, Ben.
Ben Wright: A little bit about me? Oh my gosh. I'll try to keep it to a little bit. Founder, CEO of a company called Velocity Global. We're headquartered based in Denver, Colorado. , blessed, average. Dan said to be on your husband, show leader in the trenches because we, we built a company that's, that's grown really, really quickly. We ended up number four on the Inc 5,000 last year, which is pretty amazing. I'm still kind of have to pinch myself every time I say that. Uh, but we've got a really incredible team. , husband, a father of two kids, Ted and Seven. , and I don't know what else to tell ya that occupies just about all of my time.
Amanda Hammett: Well, that's a lot. I mean, just being a CEO and a founder is a lot, but a CEO and a founder who grew, yeah, 39000% or over 39000% in three years. That's full, that's more than a full-time job. So congratulations to you.
Ben Wright: Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: All right. So wonderful. Wonderful. So a couple of things that I wanted to dig in and get to know about you, is that okay?
Ben Wright: Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: You guys, in order to grow that fast, you've really got to feed a machine, but you've got to have a machine that is made up of phenomenal people. So where do you find these phenomenal people and how do you get them in there to velocity global?
Ben Wright: Yeah. A great question. , any organization, the dad kind of has grown as we have, has to feed that machine with people. We are a technology-enabled service. There's nursing. So that's particularly the case with us. , we're not just a dyed in the wool technology solution that has this incredible scale where you achieve a certain size and then, you know, you can grow, grow, grow, grow, grow without having to add as many people to the organization. , and so han capitals big for us. And so getting a feeding the machine with candidates and the right people and getting the right people on the bus is huge, particularly for an organization like us. , and, and we've, you know, we've taken the approach since day one of the organization. Uh, literally the very first person I hired who is now my COO, Kevin, the name of Rob Crabtree took the approach from day one is that, uh, you know, we want to make sure that we get the very best people in the mix organization.
Ben Wright: And every company can say that. But we took the mantras that we only want to have penned. , and so if, if we are out there and interviewing and talking to people, typically in the last question we asked ourselves is, you know, is this individual attention? Uh, and if not, despite how much we like them, we'll take a pass and we'll wait until we can find that, that that grade standard comes in. We have passed on people who honestly and objectively are probably tens, but may not actually be tens in our system as well. And so there's, there are multiple angles to it. , and, and frankly, I think for us, it as odd as it may sound, it doesn't have all that much to do with your, the very specific details of your professional experience in terms of kind of the exact roles that you served or are Kennedy accomplishments along the way. It's more sore about who you are as a person. , your ability to learn, your ability to analyze information, to assimilate information, to really be a team player. And can I have a sense of where do you want to go in life? That's all been a pretty good, pretty good Gbo for us.
Amanda Hammett: I'm pretty good Gbo. Okay. Wonderful. So when you're putting people through this process, you mentioned it's not all about what's on the rese, which I think is phenomenal. It's, I think it's really more about culture versus specific skill. , so are you guys relying more on the softer skills or those abilities or how do you judge those softer skills? Let's start with that.
Ben Wright: Yeah, great question. So we've got, we've got a whole process that we put people through. And it's interesting. I was, I'm just happy to be on kind of glass door the other day and right notice that a few folks have kind of interviewed and apply with us and it didn't get past that first phone screen and couldn't figure out why the heck we weren't. Yeah. Talking about their rese. And I kind of got a chuckle out of it because that's on purpose and I'm sorry to those folks who applied and didn't get past that bed first round. But we really start out talking about you know, what makes you passionate. What are the thing is that you are most proud of, you know, what are some low points kind of throughout your, and really kind of understanding and painting a picture of almost kind of what it means in a quick 30-minute conversation about what it is to be you in a professional setting?
Ben Wright: And that's where it, that's where you either you're either onto the next round or you're not, uh, beyond then in future rounds we do actually start going into kind of the different roles that you've had over your career. But honestly, we don't focus as much about really the blocking and tackling of what each individual position entails. It's more about what did you learn? How did you work with other people? Uh, you know, how, how did you work with your boss? How were you as a manager? How were you as a peer? When you were in those positions, you know, what did you gain the most satisfaction out of? And, and how does it all kind of weave a tapestry? And too, it's a what it is that you're going to do next and what makes you most passionate. And the perfect situation does, is we have incredibly passionate, incredibly intelligent people, who may not be able to articulate perfectly, but together we can come up with kind of, this is, this is really what this next step looks like for you. And when that fits into what we need as an organization, it's magic.
Amanda Hammett: That's, that's wonderful. I love to hear things like that. I love to hear when, when people bring that whole recruiting process in and make it magic. That's, that's amazing. So, hmm. What about when people are in the recruiting process or in the interviewing process and you're asking them these questions. Yup. Are you relying, and I hate to say this, but are you relying on exactly taking their word for it or are, how are you backing this information up? Let me, let me go about it that way.
Ben Wright: Yes. So, yeah, you know, we, I don't want to, I don't want to give us too much credit in case I, I think there's, there's a lot of people who do some really great things around there through an interview process. And I don't think that we are just completely, you know, off the grid genius in terms of what we do. But we do have a process that is really good about getting down to, okay, this is what you told me, but, but, but, but, but digging deeper, digging deeper, digging deeper, and then repetition, repetition, repetition, right? , I am a firm believer, that we can and should learn as we go through our careers. Right? , and the Times that are the challenging times, I'm the great times. Those are fantastic. And that's what we always want to talk about in the interview.
Ben Wright: Those are easy. Exactly right. But it's the, you know, it's the tough ones where we literally learned the most. And, and that's where you understand someone's character. That's what you understand their metal. And most importantly, that's where you understand them, not only how did they overcome, but what did you then take that to the next know? How did you take that to the next position and the next company? Right? And what are the learnings that you did from there? And my goodness, if you continued to kind of make those kinds of same issues in Saint Mary's, in Sanford stakes, , I hope that you learn at some point, but you're probably not going to be a good fit here, right? And come back when you, you kind of have that, that ability to be able to kind of incorporate and information. And then so, so all of that can of paint that whole picture. One of the final steps is absolutely talking to references and talking to people, , who you've worked with in the past and it's, yes, it's validating the job and the job description of the job requirements, but it's more so validating. Here's what, here's the picture that we think we've kind of painted about this individual and we ride, are we wrong? Help keep us honest on this thing.
Amanda Hammett: That's really, I, I love that you put that kind of care and effort into it. , it seems like, and I could be wrong, but it seems like you guys really take your time through the hiring process. You slow it down.
Ben Wright: Yeah, so yes, we are very, the way I describe it as we are incredibly purposeful and for studios, but we also move fast. So, uh, you know, we, we named ourselves velocity global for a reason. We moved fast in just about everything that we do. Uh, but we are in certain that we kind of purposeful and taking the right amount of time kind of through that process.
Amanda Hammett: I love that. Oh, fantastic. All right. I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. So I know that this is not this first round as a founder and you blew it out of the water. Congratulations on that. But before that, you have various other roles working for other companies. And I would imagine that you have experienced other forms of leadership and how did those shape who you became as a leader?
Ben Wright: Yeah, I often tell the story and, and I don't even know, I'd have to actually go back and do the math again because there's so many. , so take us to the grain of salt. But I think over the first 10 years of my career I worked for seven different companies. Some of that was my, of my own decision making. Some of it was, you know, market forces, like the company, was bought out. I was fired a couple of times, so that was not my choice.
Amanda Hammett: I appreciate the honesty here.
Ben Wright: Was pretty sure it, and I honestly probably deserved it in both cases, but the one where do you learn, right? What are you learning?
Amanda Hammett: You learned something apparently.
Ben Wright: because you tried to be hope. You too. , but I only raise that because you know, seven different companies under the first 10 years. I have lots of different managers, pods of different cultures and it's not how I would've scripted my career by any means. I would have scripted it really, really, definitely. But the silver lining is, it honestly gave me, you know, experience after experience after experience. And I was able to kind of look and view and absorb and say, here's the culture's, here are the themes, here are the personalities. Here's the direction. Here's the strategy that I love and here's the ones that I, that, that I really don't care for. Uh, and don't make sense to me. And honestly,
Ben Wright: In my opinion, that hasn't necessarily led to success in those organizations. Right. These things have held those companies back, these things ever really let those companies shine and grow. And so I really sort of took that collection of experience. You're not just in terms of cultures of organizations, but the leaders themselves. MMM. And there's, you know of them, of this, the seven different companies over the first 10 years, probably 10 or more, you know, bosses or leaders that I worked for in that time, you know, there's, there's probably two or three that really stand out, uh, as amazing. , there's four or five that were pretty middle of the road as far as I'm concerned. And, you know, there's a couple that I hope they, they really continue to grow and evolve as leaders and managers.
Amanda Hammett: So that was a very polite yeah.
Ben Wright: Because I'm certain there's, you know, there's probably somebody out there and maybe say the same thing about me and so I'm just hoping they would offer me that same grace.
Amanda Hammett: That's wonderful. So I am an expert on developing next-generation talent and I noticed just going through your website that you have quite the population of millennials. Do you have any Gen Z's on your staff when your team does
Ben Wright: What's Gen z? What's the oldest?
Amanda Hammett: Gen Z would just be starting to graduate from college. So the oldest would be around 22, 23
Ben Wright: so we do, so we did, we have, I couldn't tell you how many, but we have a handful of folks who are kind of just out of university, , in a handful of folks who are, who are interns with us, who are still at the university level. So, so yes, we're starting to get into that Gen z, but we do have quite a few, quite a few millennials.
Amanda Hammett: What would you say the makeup is of millennials versus everyone else?
Ben Wright: I haven't looked, but my gut says are the average age in our organization is somewhere between 28 and 30. Okay. Guy like me, that's at 42 is really dragging that mean up quite a bit. And there's a few of us there that are, you know, again really kind of do dragon that the dragon that numbers up. For better or for worse. I don't know if I like the fact that I did that, but it's just simply the fact. So you know, quite a bit. I, I would say that the majority of our, uh, of the team of our population is probably in that millennial group.
Amanda Hammett: Wonderful. Yeah. Well, I would imagine in such a fast growth arena, you guys really do need to rely on that millennial talent in particular. I mean across the world globally, it's going to be 75% by the year 2020 or 2025. Excuse me. But I'm glad to see that you guys have already reached that. A lot of the people I work with are already at 90%, so I'm not surprised by that at all. Not at all. So I'm all right. What, what do you think is the difference in the workplace or in the culture of a workplace now versus maybe when you first came in? Cause you're, you're a little, not much, but a little tiny outside of that millennial age range. I mean, just a little like, oh, I'm actually being serious. It, you know, it's more of a flow thing versus a hard date. So,
Ben Wright: Well, listen, when I started my career, we were in cubicles, right? I mean that in and of itself is, is out the door. You know, with us, the velocity global, we not only have a completely open office environment, nobody has, nobody has an assigned desk. , and, and that includes me. I don't have an office. I don't have an assigned desk, you know, we'd float. And it is totally wide open and there's, you know, there's space where you can sit at a desk there space where you can sit in the couches, you can set me at a huddle rooms, you know, it's this incredible use of space, which was so sterile when, when I came out and frankly I hated it, right? I'd go sit in my cubicle and it didn't matter how high the walls were and it felt like they were always ridiculously high.
Ben Wright: You know, you had to poke your head around just to talk to somebody and they're giving me this look like, why are you poking your head around the cubicle, the toxin, you know, the collaboration and the relationships and the bombs kind of bogus. This, you know, the millennial generation is, it is incredible and it's so powerful and I think it's an incredible boon to business because people care about each other. They know each other at a much deeper level that I feel like I did with my colleagues when I started my career. And that leads to it are really a much richer tapestry that allows you to kind of get stuff done. All right in a way you've never been able to do. , you know, and it's funny and it's ironic because we always read this stuff, you know, in the Internet generation and, and phones and social media and know these millennials are going to be able to talk to each other. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's wrong, right? It's absolutely wrong. They are, they have deeper relationships and they communicate at a, at a much deeper level than you, the than I was ever able to do. We get early in my career.
Amanda Hammett: Wow. I, that's a that's quite an accolade that you just threw out, so I appreciate that. That's wonderful. So, all right, let's talk a little bit about developing your employees because as we mentioned, a lot of these are on the younger side. You've got some interns, you've got fresh out of university all the way up the to late thirties, early forties. , what is the development path look like for you guys? Is there a set in stone? Everybody goes through this or is it more individual? How do you guys go about that?
Ben Wright: It's individual. It's very much individual. So what we do at velocity global is we have this thing called an employee development plan. EDP. and while not required, we strongly encourage everybody that goes to the process and its symbol and it's one page and it's, you know, what are my goals? and we encourage people to not think about it from a velocity, global perspective. Think about it in terms of a personal and professional perspective and almost going to take the philosophy where will thing out of the equation, what do I care about, what I want to do short term, medium term or long term. And we know that coming out of the interview process, but then once you're on board, we, we create the CDP together. Yeah. We make sure that we understand what that is and then we updated on a periodic basis because the best that we can understand from employee's perspective about what really makes them tick, really made some h.
Ben Wright: And frankly, what gets them the most passionate and an alliance. And that alignment can change and it should as you go through your career, but, but what aligns with what I want. I really want to do what I really want to accomplish. Okay. We take that and then we take a look at kind of the goals of the business, right? Where are there holes? Where do we need, you know, kind of future leaders, where do we need, you know, where do we need gaps that people are going to have to be able to go in? So it's a run this machine as you say. And then we make that alignment. And it's not, you know, it's never perfect. But the closest it gets to perfect is when both sides are being really radically candid with each other. , and went on the company side.
Ben Wright: We're saying this, here's the honest to God, the truth about what kind of this role in this direction looks like and the demands that entail. And, uh, you know, and this is why I think you can or potentially are not [inaudible] yet ready to do this job. And then on the individual side, you know, it's a two-way street, you know, our colleagues have to be ready and willing to be really open and honest like this is, this is what I want to do. And you know, the conversations that I honestly love the most is when that really doesn't have a current company Lens on it. When they say, you know, in five years' time I really want to go start a not profit or whatever the case may be. Right. Yeah. Perfect. I'm going to be really sad to lose you when that time comes, but now we know and so we can together create this directional flow that will help get you ready for that while at the same time help us accomplish the goals.
Amanda Hammett: Okay. That's amazing. I love that. That's so I'm, I'm almost me, I have so many questions and things I want to say. I love that because I think that so many people are afraid to say, this is my five-year goal, this is 10 years where I want to be, and I know it doesn't align with my company's goals. And so they keep that in and they're like, oh, I want to be a manager. I want to be a director by that point when really that's not what they want. But if you're using that as a, as an ability to not only teach them and to be able to leverage those skills in the meantime, but also prepare them to leave you, that's something you don't, you don't see a lot of. And I love that you guys are doing, I love that you're offering that to, to your employees, because one thing that you probably haven't thought of but that I'm immediately thinking of is the fact creates loyalty too.
Ben Wright: For sure.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. And that's something that I always hear. Millennials aren't loyal employees, their job hoppers, but if they love what they're doing and they know that you're supporting them, of course, they're going to love it and they're going to stay. That's great.
Ben Wright: Yeah, Bingo. Certainly, no surprise. Couldn't have said it any better myself, Amanda. But, uh, that was, yeah, perfectly captured. And you know, you've gotta, you've gotta walk the walk with a philosophy like this. , and what I'm really psyched about it is, you know, in a few weeks we're going to celebrate our five year anniversary as a company. And I believe that we have batted a thousand. We have every single case, , walk the walk as it relates to that, that, you know, we will work with you if you're willing to open up and kind of work with us. And, and we have never, there have never been negative consequences of someone has ever opened up and said, this is my five-year path. Right. And so, so the data has proven, just think about us as an organization that we have shown you can, you can open up right. Not Everybody has the courage to do that. And I get it. And sometimes we come with prior professional baggage, right. And you can't stop that, but all we can do is give, you know, obviously, try to create the right culture and environment ourselves. , and then my hope is that everybody sees that, hey, this is actually a really great way to get people to buy in, to be a part of a team, to remain loyal, but also, you know, create that goodwill and help them get to that next stage in their career, whether it's within this company or not. And so the navy then goes forth and become the leaders that we all hope they'll do.
Amanda Hammett: This is, this is an amazing and beautiful conversation and I'm sad that it's almost over and I don't even know so many other things to ask about. So. All right, we touched on this a little bit, but let's be very specific here. If you had an early in career employee come to you, And I don't know, are they saying, are they going, I don't know, it's up to you. What would be the one piece number one piece of advice that you would give them
Ben Wright: Early in their career employees.
Amanda Hammett: Early in their career? So they've been in the workforce full time, less than five years.
Ben Wright: Okay. So the advice that I would give to them is, and this is, I'm kind of thinking back about my own path is that have a plan, right? Have a plan and work would be, I mean, give your all to that plan, right? Give you all that plan and give your all to whatever it is that you're doing. And you have to do it every single day, right? You really can't, you can't take days off. Don't get me wrong, you need to take days to sharpen your ax. I'm not saying that when you come to work or when you're following that plan, you gotta, you know, you got to suit up and show up every single day when you're doing that and be purposeful about it. , because that's what kind of builds the right habits to get there and have that plan, but yet, don't be so headstrong and you know, heads down about that plan that you miss the incredible opportunities and promises as they come. You know, again, if my own career path is, is any sort of example, there've been a, there's been several instances along the way where opportunities were presented and if I hadn't been paying attention and if I hadn't been willing to take the leap, you know, just like kind of this current, you know, organization that I'm running today, it would have been a very different path. I'm sure it would have been great, but you know, you gotta be willing to take that plunge when the opportunities come.
Amanda Hammett: That's great advice. Very solid. All right, one last question. This is something I'm asking all of the leaders, what is your favorite leadership book?
Ben Wright: My favorite leadership book. And that's tough to only name one, but I think it's probably the five dysfunctions of the team. Okay.
Ben Wright: Ah, yeah, you pull it off the shelve. Yes. Yeah, it was plugged. yeah, it is just, it is so quick. It assembles it. It is so well written. , and into those lessons you just, you just see, you can take with your time and time and time again. It just came up in conversation with some of the executive team yesterday.
Amanda Hammett: Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, this is actually the field guides, so if you haven't gotten nice, try that one out too. I'm writing this down. , well, wonderful. Thank you so much Ben, for being on the show. Thank you for sharing and being honest and really sharing with the world about how awesome the culture is at velocity global, but also about what you guys are building. I think that that's really amazing and important and so thank you for sharing with us.
Ben Wright: Well thank you. It's an honor and we're hiring, so come check it out.
Amanda Hammett: Right. We will link to the hiring page for velocity global, which obviously I think it's a pretty awesome place to be if you make it through the cuts. So thank you again and we'll talk to you soon. It's a pleasure. Thanks so much. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the next generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader. And if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward.
Amanda Hammett: Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
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In a world where "good enough" is the reality, learn how Horst Schulze, Co-Founder of the Ritz-Carlton, goes against the grain seeking out Excellence in each employee.
Schulze's professional life began more than 65 years ago as a server's assistant in a German resort town. Throughout the years he worked for both Hilton Hotels and Hyatt Hotels Corporation before becoming one of the founding members of The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company in 1983. There Mr. Schulze created the operating and service standards that have become world-famous. His principles are both versatile and practical to leaders of every age, career stage, and industry.
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The Transcript - Excellence & Joining the Dream Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent while you are in the right place.
Amanda Hammett: Hi, this is Amanda Hammett and on today's episode of the Next Generation Rock stars, we have Horst Schulze says he is the co-founder of the Ritz-Carlton. Now I think we all know and love the brand of the Ritz-Carlton. They are known for their excellence in everything they do, customer service, their food, their beverages, their rooms, they're beautiful properties, but it's not just excellence in those things. It's excellence all behind the scenes with the people that are there. A Horst actually walks us through how that idea of excellence was really brought into his life as a 14-year-old working as a busboy in a hotel and how he carried that with him and some lessons he learned along the way. But I think what you're really going to walk away from his horse ideas around developing people and learning those lessons and taking them on with you throughout your career. So join us for today's episode and take lots and lots of notes.
Amanda Hammett: Hi, this is Amanda Hammett with the next generation rockstars. And today I have a phenomenal interview for you. I Have Horst Schulze say, ah, he is here with us and he is going to tell us all about his ideas around leadership and developing next-generation talent. Horst, welcome to the show.
Horst Schulze: I'm glad to be here Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: Wonderful. Wonderful. So I know a lot about you because I have this little book right here. Um, but I would imagine our audience may not know a lot about you, so why don't you share with us a little bit about yourself?
Horst Schulze: Well, it really starts when I left home when I was 14 and started working, I bought a hundred miles away, a hundred kilometers away, an awesome busboy in the best talent in the region. That's why a Honda phenomenon, Sabine from home, they're living with the kids in a dorm room and working and learning the business slowly and was quite lucky. That's why I refer to that time. I had a huge mentor at that time when I was very, and it's accessible to information very young. Do you understand? I was 14 and had a huge man that was the Maitre d of the hotel. He impacted my life dramatically.
Horst Schulze: In fact, the first day I met him, he said, now there by other kids who started the same day, no. Yeah, guys don't come to work to just work, come to work to create excellence. And that was kind of impact that mid traumatically throughout my life. Now at that time of went over my head, frankly that's not, and for by on one, what does excellence and washing dishes and dishes and cleaning floors. But however he kept on staying with that theme and he presented himself as a human being of excellence and work workout excellence. So you could sooner or later, after a couple of years working there, I could connect to that very clearly and could, you could feel it, you could see it. And he impacted my life and from down, I've worked in the top hotels in Europe. I mean truly you had that at the very best hotels in Europe and in Switzerland and France.
Horst Schulze: And hold on, hold American Lion, England, Germany. And then I came to the United States in 1964 worked, worked in San Francisco, Chicago, worked for Hilton or for Hilton, Dan Hyatt. And finally, when I worked for hired, I was, I started as a director of food and beverage for a hotel.
Amanda Hammett: Right.
Horst Schulze: They came director of rooms, became a general manager, regional vice president, over 10 hotels, a corporate vice president, 65 hotels. When somebody offered me to come to Atlanta and start a new hotel company, I was not very interested in that because I had my golden handcuffs and everything you want. But they kept on offering me the shop and slowly at Treme start developing what I would do with the new hotel company. That dream started to control my total, totally controlled by the vision. I started the job, gave up my, the handcuff and Arizona, all my friends and everything and moved to Atlanta to start a new hotel company. A year of that coming to Atlanta, we opened our first hotel, which turned out the Ritz-Carlton Bucket, which doesn't exist anymore. But that is the beginning and I live 20 years later, nearly 20 years later and Ritz Carlton had become the leading hotel company in the world. Absolutely. And many countries, four continents. That's my story.
Amanda Hammett: So I will say that when you do think of excellence, so you manage to thread that through the entire, the entire company.
Horst Schulze: Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: Wonderful.
Horst Schulze: I think so as thing, so that was my whole purpose and I have and dismayed with deans and of course I'm new, the project and we all are, are the, are there is salt of influence of many, many people with a, with a major influenced by this gentleman and this gentleman, the Maitre d just hard us think excellence and not work more hours, but while your work, instead of painting a wall, pin the painting and that was kind of his mantra and, and you cannot help it, you're so young. You, you adopt some of it. And of course [inaudible] Ritz Carlton, that was the whole thinking. I could not, I saw him in front of me saying, create excellence.
Amanda Hammett: That's amazing. That's really amazing. How that one story of mentorship has shaped your life and the trajectory. So let's talk a little bit more about that. I would imagine that throughout your career that you've experienced, you know, other forms of leadership besides this one.
Horst Schulze: Yeah, sure.
Amanda Hammett: How did that go into helping your style of leadership that you would go on to develop?
Horst Schulze: Yeah, there are many people who have impacted me that way and I can look, and if you're lucky, you have got people who impact you. If you're lucky, you're dumb. And that's really it because the effect is we are a result of that. And it had some great leaders and I remember that the president of, of Higher Ed who was affable and what was fun was relaxed but didn't compromise who was, it was a friend. Right? But didn't, that didn't mean you compromise. I remember a gentleman by the name of Colgate homes, we'll absolutely be precise, communicated. It showed a future to our own, showed us why we do things, not just for the function of the day, but for results in the future, et Cetera, et cetera. So a lot of impacts. And I had a, a mentor I've been on right after I finished my apprenticeship as a young man and gender men who reminded me to, to, to come to work. Also asked a gentleman to act rides, to behave right, to, to understand your work in a place where a certain amount of certain type of customer comes to trust yourself to those people, et cetera. So different in pumps in different learning moments in life is what formed me. Right or wrong. That's who I am.
Amanda Hammett: Of course, of course. Well, fantastic. Now, especially on as you grew through your career, did you ever feel pressure from your bosses, maybe from a board when you were at the Ritz Carlton or any of those positions that you've held that you really had to focus on numbers and not on really, because the way I see it as you're developing people, did they want you more to focus on numbers and profitability versus just the people will do what they gotta do?
Horst Schulze: Just to curse of today. That curse exists forevermore. And, and what is a serious mistake that is for organizations, but your organization can tell and cannot have it, tell it your organization is pressured by investors, by Wall Street, et Cetera. So look at a dollar. Consequently, the organization measures and identifies success by the dollar, the mansion. There's the headquartered in Chicago and it's a hotel or a business. Doesn't matter what it is. I of course report to hotels or hotel thousand months of eight. How does Chicago headquarter evaluates the leadership in that hotel? Nothing but the bottom line.
Amanda Hammett: That's right.
Horst Schulze: And yet at the same time, if I'm down and the vape, I can really impact on that. But that bottom line by cutting and my services to the customer by not painting anymore, by not cleaning so much for taking the flowers away and so on. Sadly that's the same thing but, but excellence. That's the point about excellence. Excellence concentrates on the things that make money and not under money.
Amanda Hammett: Yes.
Horst Schulze: That is the difference. And that's what I tried to show everybody. Let's concentrate on our product concentrate what the market ones and do that superior to the competition that infects, we'll create money on the end.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely.
Horst Schulze: And that's not how things are measured today.
Amanda Hammett: Unfortunately, you're correct. Yes, absolutely. So Horst what would you say the difference, because how long have you been working since you were 14 so quite a while. What would you say the biggest difference is that millennials have brought into the workplace.
Horst Schulze: You know, that is why in my opinion it's widely understood and I've worked with them. Now mind you, it's not that I'm applying to them. I work with them quite a while. The millennials ask the questions, which we would have liked to ask, but they're afraid to ask this, say the milling and said, what's in it for me? Yeah, we were wondering what's in it for me. We would have liked to know, we would have liked to ask the question of why and the Millennials and says why. And you know, this is kind of fascinating, but because Adam Smith of course, who rode belts of nations 300 years ago, when you wrote another boom of which incidentally was more proud and in that book he studied the human being and he came to the conclusion 300 some years ago, came to the conclusion that human beings cannot relate to all this and direction. Yet what do we do? We give orders and direction. He said, human beings can relate to objective and motive and that's what the animal in its want to know. What's the reasoning, what's the more devoted and what's in it for me? So it really is not new. It's only newly expressed and we're not used to it. I all leadership like me, I'm not used to, we're not used to it. All of a sudden the young person comes in and says, why? So what? What's in it for me? We would have liked to sentencing, the same thing, but we were afraid.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. I agree with that answer wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly.
Horst Schulze: The other things, of course, the medallions, it as a market, as a customer, the millennial, it's, it's really the same thing. They mainly the millennials say, do it my way. [inaudible] do it my way. Nope, you're not your way. No, your way. The businesses way but I wanted my own way and we went also Ribet willing to subordinate two, the producers, what they produced to us missing too, even though we would have liked to have a different the millennials said I take the hamburger, but I won two slices of cucumbers on a sort of one.
Amanda Hammett: Yes.
Horst Schulze: Do it my way. And that's really the differences and you can expand on that, but it's all the same.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. They, they very much appreciate that into individualized attention. Whether it's at work or whether it's as a guest. Absolutely. Exactly.
Horst Schulze: Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: You absolutely. Absolutely. So let me ask, how did this influence millennials coming into the workplace and coming in under you? How did that influence the way that you lead them?
Horst Schulze: Well, I had come to a conclusion much earlier anyway that, eh, I don't want people to come to in my organization to fulfill the function. [inaudible] I want them to join my tree, my objective. In other words, I was almost willing to go higher, join me. And that's what the and then that millennials want to do, but have the knowledge what that chosen. But or because organizations still say, join me and then they say, go to work and, and make the speech about we are a team. [inaudible] we are a team. That is, it is ridiculous team speech. But a team is a group of key people who have a common objective. Yeah. And that's what a millennial wants to know. What's the objective?
Amanda Hammett: Yes.
Horst Schulze: And, but the boss says, we're a team here. No, go to work.
Amanda Hammett: Yes, do what I said.
Horst Schulze: You know the team, unless you on the understand the objective and the motives of the organization, I always believed that because I grew up through the ranks.
Horst Schulze: I want you to know that I was up north. I was afraid to ask, but when I was started and Scott and I met very clear, I want people to join us. I wonder if you have an orientation maybe explained fully who we are, explained our three, invited them that showing the dream and then told him, told them our motive for this dream and connected our motive to death. For example, one the girl you want opportunity, we wanted to be on that. You want to be respected it Cetera, et cetera. So I didn't change my approach. I know that because it was deep in me and, and I said, boss, I look back. That came from, I came from being a busboy. I wrote as weight and as a coconut from this, I have done the work our employees do. I know the pain and I know the pleasure of it.
Amanda Hammett: All right, so you are, what I just heard is that you are a man way before your time.
Horst Schulze: No, I know I don't know what that, yes, I was probably a little bit before everybody, but then when many, I was not the only one. Let's understand that. But it's the course I grew up and I had the right influences. I was influenced by the right people and the head of the ride experience. I didn't fall through the ceiling one day and say, Hey, I liked those hotels. I'm the president of. I had worked myself through it. So I know the pain of the employees and I and it was very good. And some of my leaders in the past told me vaping and gentleman, but never cook home set, you know, employees who wanted to do the job do better work better than the ones that have to do a shop. Absolutely. So it's very symbol. So knowing that I have to look back and say, all right, how do you want to be a child? If you feel part of something you say it all is very simple. I also like the, I read the old philosophers and even our sense people, people in order to be fulfilled in life, have to have the excellence of purpose and belonged to that purpose. So why would I hire employees for the function? I hired them for the purpose and let them feel a part of it. Absolutely.
Amanda Hammett: So let me ask you since you just brought this up, let's, let's talk about this hiring process and the recruiting process. Yeah. I mean if you're hiring them for the dream, how do you communicate that through a job listing or how do you communicate that to them, to a wider audience of potential employees? How do you communicate this?
Horst Schulze: Probably to the listening part of it through the first and interview. Okay. To the first interview by the, and by the way, I'll say clearly I identified the processes clearly in my book how to do that. And uh, it is sort of the first interview, invite them to join an organization. Make it clear. Don't just come here to vogue, come here to join us to function, which you fulfill. I why? Why would I hire people? Trust for the function, right. Did, did come here to fulfill a function for its purpose to accomplish a certain goal, which is if you're creative leader, you determined if that objective, the long-term objective is good for all concerned is my objective, is my train good for the Organization of course. But the investments [inaudible] for the, for the customer, for the employee influence society as a whole. Once I determine this, my objective is good for all concerns. I build my systems so that everybody joins me in that objective. So a hire you for my objective, not the function because you see the chairman which was sitting is fulfilling a function. But I'm hiring human beings. Right? We know since Aristotle wants to be part of something. Yes. So I'm offering that on, of course, I made it very clear The function has to be fulfilled better than the competition fulfills it so that we can accomplish our dream.
Amanda Hammett: Right. Okay, that's wonderful. So let me ask you this. You obviously came up through the ranks starting as a busboy. Um, and, and I feel like I, I'm guessing here, I'm going to put words in your mouth for a second, but I would assume that you got a lot out of that development process. Coming up through the ranks and it has influenced who you've become as a leader, who you've become as, as a co-founder. It's influenced by everything. Yes. What would you say is the benefit today of starting at the bottom, at the busboy, at the whatever and working your way up? What would be, what would you say to someone today to try to a young person trying to tell them, hey, join us in this dream. I need you to start here.
Horst Schulze: Yes. Well, yes, I would show him, show him all have, obviously that is a Korea, no matter on what level you are going to start. It's quite simple. In fact that career [inaudible] it's a guarantee. It's a guarantee that we have a guarantee. Don't you have a current, a career? If you take any trip that you're in, I can give you examples of people that started as a dishwasher. There's one very close by over here. The manager ended in a Marriott over here, but you know in Atlanta. I remember when he was oriented in the first Ritz-Carlton. I was still running that hotel. He was a dishwasher, a refugee from Nairobi.
Amanda Hammett: Really?
Horst Schulze: It was a dishwasher, but what he did is exactly what I met my career. He was a little better than hours. We didn't come five minutes late. He came five minutes early, maybe ask them to do something. He didn't say, why me? He said, I'm happy to thank you for letting me doing et Cetera, and said, Ron, he was excellent in every shop they had soon after. He was excellent as additional sham, the room service manager, ours can. I have them work for me and it became the best room service with them and soon the banquet manager said, can I have them worked for me? Everybody wanted him because he was excellent at what he was doing. That's the story. That's the story. I, that's my story. I wrote as room service that in the Hilton in San Francisco when the cam first United States and I made the decision that I will be the best after I real. After somebody got promoted ahead of me and I realized that person is served at a little bit more than me. I came to work tired in the morning, sometimes five minutes late because I was young, was partying, and then I didn't get a promotion.
Horst Schulze: Now first as thought stupid management by didn't I get the promotion and to every few months. Of course, it taught me a few months to realize the other guy disrupted more. He said when he was told something, he didn't say, why me? Is that I'm happy to, and that's when I made the decision. I will be excellent and average shop category that I will ever have and I've consequently had a career just like eBay, the Manitoba, then the Marriott who was nothing but promote along because in every job he was excellent. He came to work to be excellent and not just fulfill the function. That was his decision. That decision can be made if you're a millennial or not a millennial.
Amanda Hammett: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with that. I'm curious, how old were you when you were passed over for that promotion?
Horst Schulze: 24 I was a room service waiter.
Horst Schulze: It impacted my life. Totally impacted my life. I suddenly now no manual. I wanted that promotion. I didn't get it. Of course I knew it was the best waiter there, technically I was good when I was in a funny book up in the morning, but when you come in, come in every day and they look a little tired and sometimes you lead and the other, the other guys, every morning there are a few minutes early and says front the good morning. And that was a difference. And when I saw it, I saw something beautiful. I looked once I've taught me a few months mind you have called me a few months to overcome my ego, my ego, or in the stem, it's not me. Obviously, in about suddenly, I looked at my hand and there was a key to success. That's from now on. I'm going to create excellence now all of a sudden. And as so in front of me, my first made a deal saying to me, I told you, come to work for excellence. I saw him, I saw it in front of me and I said, this will never ever happen to me again.
Amanda Hammett: And it did. There you go. It was a wonderful learning lesson for you. Sure.
Horst Schulze: Hopefully we all have those lessons or we all have them. But if you recognize them or not, that's the question.
Amanda Hammett: That is the question. That is the thing. You have those opportunities to learn, but do you take it as a learning experience or do you take it as a, Oh, that's, that's not why.
Horst Schulze: Why not be planned? Somebody [inaudible] and player management, which I did for a few months. Of course, something that makes you feel bad that, but it doesn't get you anywhere.
Amanda Hammett: No, it doesn't. It sure doesn't. So wonderful. I'm glad that you have that experience for sure. So, um, I think you've touched on this a little bit, but I want to really hammer this home, especially for our younger audience. What advice would you give an early career employee? Is it coming to work five minutes early or is it?
Horst Schulze: Well, it is so it's the same words. There's nothing different. If you're starting in your career, be excellent and what you're doing standout. I recommend this to my children. I have four daughters. I urge everyone to go to work five minutes earlier, be heavy. When you walked a road, make a decision. It was used to decide. Make a decision that you like to get shot. You know, today, half the people in the, in any given job go to work happy and the others are pretty happy.
Horst Schulze: What is it? It's a decision. It's not a feeling. Control your feelings. Make a decision as a chop protected. Be early, be happy if you have extra roping given, gives you a chance to learn this. Be Excellent today, every day for day. And you will get rewarded. The rewards will come. Oh, it takes much too long before somebody recognizes. I know it takes much longer, but it will be recognized. It will be rewarded. The rewards will come. The reward is in the future. And you're working for the future young people.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. I think that a lot of times it's hard to, I have been guilty of this myself as a young employee. You know, you see the frustration today. That's what you're living in is this today and it's hard. It is hard to look beyond that and say, okay, what it can be in six months.
Horst Schulze: Exactly. So yeah, exactly. And so it's so important to it. I'm, I'm at a point, once I had done the experience and for God's, the message from my first met with excellent, I infect them for years wrote and my on my mirror, their shape in the morning, go to work for excellence. I had to remind myself so that I wouldn't to live away from it. I had to manage myself. We have the manage, we have to be leaders of ourselves first before we are leaders of others and wait to be led by artists. The most important form of leadership is self-leadership. Lead yourself to excellence. Have a vision for yourself and commit yourself to implement the steps that get you there. And I'm focused on it that that is where the pain comes into focus in because you see, you find excuses, you find apologies that make you feel good for a moment but doesn't take you anywhere. The only division takes you somewhere. Have a vision for excellence.
Amanda Hammett: All right, I love that. I love that actually. So you know, if something popped up in my head when you were just talking just now, what would you advise someone who is, when you're looking to promote people, say you're looking to promote somebody to lead a team. What's more important to you that they are a rock star as an individual contributor or they understand they have a better understanding of how to lead people?
Horst Schulze: Well, I have a better understanding of how to lead people. However, contrary to what everybody says it, leadership can be learned. Leadership can be learned. Some people said that porn, it's not true. And there is, I have seen creatively the crib leaders that I touched on earlier, they had all totally different styles. It's not the style leadership is in my opinion, the understanding that the objective of the organization must be of excellence for all concerned.
Horst Schulze: If it lets out one, one of their constituencies, if you, if you will. It's not good leadership. I have to have to think if, if my company here is an objective for my company and if I do that as a, as a leader and set the objective and see something beautiful, it has to be beautiful. It's not something that you can do. It's something you wish to be. I said out before the first Ritz-Carlton, I came here, I took that job because I wanted to create the best hotel company in the world. Yes. That was my dream and when I hired people I said show me for that. There are some of the lovings of us. We don't even have a hotel you're talking about like that. But that's the dream. Once I understand this stream is good for all concerned, I want to underline that it's not a train for you only it's self-constraint.
Horst Schulze: No, it must be good for all concerned and then align your people behind it and hire people for it. Align everybody behind it. That's leadership to see something beautiful and how people on a journey to that destination help them and management is that to do what? To help them to get there but not compromise. You do not compromise. That's because of the moment that compromise if my vision isn't created one and good for Arkansas and soon the moment when a compromise, I'm going against everybody, I can't do that. Done my direction is clearly a set.
Amanda Hammett: That's wonderful. So I actually, I think that we should end on that note because you had so much wonderful, so many wonderful things to say about development and talent and excellence and of course excellent, right?
Horst Schulze: Yeah. In the book, [inaudible] all pretty clear how to go on a kind. Of course, I can not detail everything here, but I think it will be oh of volume for young people particularly.
Amanda Hammett: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you so much for being here.
Horst Schulze: Amanda, great to be with you.
Amanda Hammett: Thank you.
Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rock stars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rock stars show up just for you.
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Being a leader is really about serving others, not managing others. Learn how Howard Behar and Starbucks harnessed servant leadership to become a worldwide juggernaut.
Howard Behar’s career in business spans over 50 years, all in consumer-oriented businesses covering several industries. He retired from Starbucks Coffee after 21 years where he led both the domestic business, as President of North America, and was the founding President of Starbucks International.
Contact Howard at www.howardbehar.com
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The Transcript - Servant Leadership for Next Generation Talent **Amanda Hammett:** Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rock star talent or you are in the right place. So welcome to today's episode of Millennial Rock Stars. We have a really awesome, interesting gas to kick off season two. We have Mr. Howard Behar and you know him from the world of Starbucks. So Howard, welcome to the show.
Howard Behar: Thanks very much. Great to be here.
Amanda Hammett: All right, so Howard, what did you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Howard Behar: Well, I'm not a millennial or from the other millennium. I am, I was born and raised in Seattle and grew up in retailing and pretty much spent my whole life and consumer services or goods. And so, which, you know, made me have to be a people person, whether I liked it or not. I had those instincts early on. And um, when I was in my mid forties, I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life. And I met this young guy named Howard Schultz who was about 10 years younger than I was, is the modern day founder of Starbucks. He actually didn't found the company. He asked me to join Starbucks and then my life changed forever after that and it was an incredible ride. You know, you couldn't, you couldn't have predicted it. It's one of those things, it just happens to you. You know, when you're living the life right now. I can't tell you I enjoyed every day of it are pretty much I did.
Amanda Hammett: That's wonderful. Well, I think how is being a little humble here. You actually, you came in to Starbucks as what the VP of sales and operations and then you eventually helped them. You became the president and you eventually help them become the international Starbucks that we know today. They were a regional chain when you came in, right?
Howard Behar: Yeah, a very small, there were only 28 stores when I started.
Amanda Hammett: Yes.
Howard Behar: There are $50,000, like 28.
Amanda Hammett: There are quite a few. But what I, what I love about Starbucks is so you can go to anyone around the world and they have their own little community built on and to the people that go there along with the Baristas and people working there, it's a small like microcosm of a community and it's fine.
Howard Behar: Right? How many stores? Starbucks as it can only be one. It's the one that you experienced. And if that's not right, right. Yeah. So, you know, big is not an excuse for not being good. You know, to take care of each individual human being one, one customer at a time, one cup at a time.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So you are a big, big believer in the idea of being a servant leader. Now, how does that concept come about for you?
Howard Behar: When I was my early or mid twenties, uh, uh, one of my mentors, my most important mentor, a guy named Jim Johnson, who I still know today, and he in our, he gave me this little booklet called the servant as leader, written by a man named Robert Greenleaf, a little orange pamphlet, more than 50 pages. And so I read that book and I probably read it a hundred times. That began my journey because it put into words the things that I felt mattered in my life. I never had a definition for it, never thought of it. And the context of being servant leadership. Um, and so that began a journey. And from that on, you know, I realized that servant leadership was primarily about learning to lead yourself first. And then once you figure that out, then you learn how to lead others through serving others. Not through managing others, but actually being of service to others.
Howard Behar: The people that you work with, people who report to you or, or those human beings we call customers canceling. Servant leadership at its core is really the understanding that our job is to serve other people and their journeys to accomplish and attain the things that they want in their life. And in so doing, we will get what we want to know. But you can't with the other way around.
Amanda Hammett: Correct. That is, that is very, very true. So, Howard, I would imagine that throughout your career you have witnessed and maybe even bit have experienced other forms of leadership now, how did that actually shape your leadership style?
Howard Behar: Well, you know, all the, all those experiences, you know, you observe your, you participate, you're affected by different leadership styles. And, I was never very good with the autocratic leadership style and I would fight back against those things. I had a guy that you're my boss, and every morning he'd come in and he'd say, hi, a dummy. How you doing?
Amanda Hammett: That's terrible.
Howard Behar: Thought he was being funny.
Amanda Hammett: Right.
Howard Behar: It made me mad. One day came in and he was a big guy who's like six foot four. His name was Irwin Greenwalt. Then I went up to him and I got, I couldn't put my nose in his face, so I put my nose in his chest and I pointed out and I said, Irwin, don't you ever call me a dummy again? You know, a month later I was fired, you know, but you know, it's, you know, it's the way things are, right?
Howard Behar: I needed it. I needed leaders that, uh, the gave me opportunity that, uh, you know, explained what the values and the mission of the organization where, and then sent me on my way and left me alone. Nobody would be harder on, on me than myself if I made a mistake right into something, right. I'd be the first one to admit it. But bosses, it, we're always pointing out what I did wrong versus pointing out the things that I did write really affected me.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah.
Howard Behar: I said, I am never going to be like that. And it's amazing how many bosses are like that. They, they, they think that the way you help people improve is by, uh, pointing out what they do wrong so they can correct. But the way you get people to improve is to have point out the things they do, right?
Howard Behar: Because we all gravitate towards that right? So it was that kind of leader, the kind of leadership that empowered me, that gave me responsibility and accountability and then left me alone. Um, yeah, that really made a difference in my life. And I used to say that before I started at Starbucks and my manager, I said, everybody gets to vote in my organization and their areas of responsibility and areas of expertise, even if sometimes it's not, there is a expertise. And when I got to Starbucks, I kind of, different Frazier said, the person who sweeps the floor should choose the bro and essence. I want her to be the kind of leader that hire great people that, that brought him into the organization properly and then send them on their way and helped him whatever they needed help. And so that's where I blossomed and I felt other people would blossom under the same kind of leadership style I was, I was not good under an autocratic leader. Okay.
Amanda Hammett: I, you know, I really don't think anybody thrives as an employee under that kind of leadership style.
Howard Behar: I don't either. Yeah. I don't either.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah. And that is something that I heard in season one of millennial rock stars. Every single a millennial that was nominated to be on the show, they all mentioned in one form or another that they wanted the, the ability to go in and do their job and not be micromanaged and not, and really to be empowered to do what they were hired to do in the first place. And that's where they grew the most. They may have made mistakes, yes, but they grew under that kind of leadership. So I applaud you for recognizing that at a time when probably it wasn't in vogue, he wasn't cool to do it.
Howard Behar: That was 50 years ago, lobby for the millennials were even thought about
Amanda Hammett: Love it. Now, were you ever pressured by a board or higher ups or at any point in your career to focus more on the numbers and less on the people and what was your response?
Howard Behar: Yeah, that was, there was always that perceived conflict, but I was always, I used to give, you know, say back to them, Hey, wait a minute. You know, there's no inherent conflict between achieving results and treating people well. Right. As a matter of fact, it's the opposite way around. So I said, if you don't like around my results farming, but I need to lead the way I need to leave now. And that happened a lot of times. You know, I wasn't a soft later. I wasn't a person that didn't hold people accountable. I did. I hold myself accountable. I hold others accountable. But again, in a way that put people up, not put people down because that's what I needed. Money.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely.
Howard Behar: That just the way that it was. But that's there all the time. It's amazing how many leaders, how many bosses, you know, think that way. I, I've given hundreds of speeches around the world and how many times people say, well, it's too soft. How do you possibly get results? I said, you, I said, I get it. I said, I'll tell you what. I'm always willing to have a contest with you. What man? Your Organization for a year. And I'll show you what, what, how trading people well gets better results in the way you're doing it.
Amanda Hammett: Has anyone ever taken you up on that?
Howard Behar: Nobody's ever taken me up because they know in their hearts, which, right cause see it's an exact, you know, leadership in organizations. Exactly the same as as relationships and families. Yes. I mean does it really work to come home and tell your wife every day what you, what they did wrong, right or right. It doesn't, does it? No, it does not. Doesn't, doesn't work. Come home yelling and screaming all the time. No it doesn't. Yeah. I used to tell a story about Harris. I used to challenge people. Should I want you to go home tonight, watch on your way home. I want you to buy a really nice bottle of wine. Something that your significant other really liked and then also by two really expensive, right? L glasses. Those are really nice crystal glasses for drinking wine and when you get home, I want you to say, honey, I brought to your favorite wine.
Howard Behar: Come on, let's have a conversation. First of all, she or he will know something's wrong. But because you just did that, let's say you sit down and you pour a nice little sip wine and Annie and you look at and they say, honey, this is your lucky day. This is going to be your annual performance review and you know how to give don some things well and you've done some things wrong and you know how well does that, how well is that going to work as your ass has bounced and out the front door right now? That's not the way relationships work at home or in business.
Amanda Hammett: No, you're absolutely correct. You are absolutely correct. Yeah. So we kind of touched on this before I turned on the recording, but um, in your opinion, what is the difference or what is the influence that millennials have brought into corporate America?
Howard Behar: Well, you know, certainly technology, right? No, they're there a familiarity with, with technology, their understanding of how to use technology, I think has been great. Um, I think, uh, you know, I mean, it's like all new generations, you know, they bring their point of view about the world and where the world is and, and how they think the organization should address the issues in the world. There are much more likely to attach to purpose then I think my generation was, you know, uh, you know, we never talked about purpose. You know, now everything is about purpose. Everything as well about why are we here? Why are we doing what we're doing and are we living up to that purpose? And so I think that's a, that's a big one too. I think one of the things that I think they've brought that I'm not so, I shouldn't say happy about, but, but that I don't subscribe so much to, as this constant focus on the data.
Amanda Hammett: Okay.
Howard Behar: You know, if I had more data, I can make a better decision. You know, there are points in time where you don't need more data. What you need to do is look inside yourself, right? From a human perspective and look at the people that you're serving from a human perspective and say what's good for them. You know at that.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah, I would agree wholeheartedly.
Howard Behar: It's just too much data. Dadda Dadda Dadda Dadda you don't have, your wife comes home one night and says, you know, I'm not happy in my marriage. Do you need any other points of data? That's one point. You just had to listen to your wife. If you listened to your customers, you listen to the people that are working in your organization. You know you get enough data, people get lazy. They want this technology to solve their problems for them. They don't want to spend the time talking to people.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely.
Howard Behar: I grew up with that data. My data, my data came from having a talk one on one to the people I was serving and to the people that worked in the organization. That's how I got my data and it was much more human and it gave me insights that you could never get by asking people questions on a computer.
Amanda Hammett: I agree. I completely agree and it's really interesting. What I've seen is this generation has actually grown up being studied and you know, taking surveys and the test, I mean from day one and it's really interesting. You can hand them a survey to take, they can hand it back to you and then you can ask them verbally the same questions. And they don't always match up because they, they've been taught to take the test. They've been taught to, you know, they're giving you the information they think you want. But in reality, when you're having a actual human to human conversation, sometimes that can change
Howard Behar: And they're looking at somebody. Yeah. They're in their eyes and you see their face sort down, sort out the wheat from the chaff real quickly. You know what's true and what's bullshit. Right. There was an explosion.
Amanda Hammett: And that's okay. That's okay. So, all right. How would you say that millennials really influenced the workplace? Or how did it change your leadership style or, or did it change your leadership style?
Howard Behar: I don't think it really did. Yeah. I've been, I've been managing organizations for 53 years. And you know, through from my own generation to, to, um, you know, millennials, Steven to generation x. You know, and it did because I, I felt that human beings were human beings and, you know, are there some differences? Yeah. But this generation is much more sensitive to input, you know, they, they tend to see all and put his criticism versus helping. So I have found that I have to do it a little bit differently. You know I have to be a lot. I always was gentle, but I found that I had to ask for permission for him to give input more. And once I got permission, then it was clear. And I do that today. And I do that with everybody now, you know? Yeah. Just these generations. I do it with my own generation, you know, permission to coach. I say.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Howard Behar: And that way they, once they say yes, then they kind of open up, you know, or at least there's, they're conscious of where they are. So, you know, I think that's, that's, uh, that's, other than that, you know.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah.
Howard Behar: Hi, just I'm up guy that believes that human beings are human beings and that if I say I love you, you know, people understand that. You know, and if I say I trust you, people understand that and when I don't trust them or I don't love on, they understand that too. And that, you know, so you know, there are there really, you know, and, and it's across, like I said before, it's across cultures. It is, you know, I mean there's much more, a bigger difference across cultures then there is a cross our own culture and the different generations.
Amanda Hammett: Okay.
Amanda Hammett: I would agree. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Howard Behar: You know, you learn to deal with that and then you can deal with anything.
Howard Behar: You know, I, um, one of the things when I am leading groups of company leaders, whether it's from a huge fortune 500 are a small startup, one of the most,
Amanda Hammett: okay
Howard Behar: Common things that I bring up very early on in the conversation is this idea of generational strife is not new. Um, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had over the years that are just like, oh, these millennials, they're the worst. Like how do you do what you do? But actually this idea of generational style strife has been around since the beginning of civilization. Others, a lot of famous quotes from Socrates and Plato complaining about younger generations and their lack of respect for authority. And there was a lack of respect for their elders and, and just being too, you know, too much of everything. And, and I just think that it's really interesting as you, as each youngest generation comes through, they are quote unquote the worst. And I just, I think it's
Howard Behar: true. That's, that's fallacy. They're not that different. I agree. Uh, you know, there are some differences and it's good to be aware of it, but you know, if you ask them, they'll tell you.
Amanda Hammett: Okay.
Howard Behar: But I find it's almost individual by individual. When you take this brush and painted across a broad category of people, you're going to make huge years. If you, if you talked to each individual different, uh, uh, on their own, you know, individually, then you learn.
Amanda Hammett: Okay.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. You've got to learn to lead the people that you're with and what each person responds to you. Because the way I respond to things maybe completely different than the way you respond to things. Exactly. And that, you know, we have different drivers, we have different motivators and a really great leader can recognize those things and give, you know, help you with those.
Howard Behar: Yeah, I agree. Perfect.
Amanda Hammett: Oh, I love it. So now what are the benefits for leaders? What are the benefits to focusing on the individual development and education of your people on your team?
Howard Behar: Well, look at team is made up of a bunch of individuals. Yes, I'll, I'll try to live their lives. You know, I'll be treated with respect, find love or whatever it is and our or per and find purpose in their lives. And unless you, unless you have individual communication, you don't know what those things are. They're not things that they can put down in a questionnaire and get underneath it all. And you know, you need to know about their families of origin. You need to know about, you know, when I interview people or talk to people, I, one of the questions I ask is if they have a brother and sister, I said, what does your brother or sister like a batch of what don't they like about you? Wish you would have become versus what you've become, you know, uh, you know, uh, you know, who's your best friend and why are they best friend and when, when did your best friend disappoints you and what disappointed you in them and when did you disappoint your best friend and what did you do to disappoint your friend?
Howard Behar: And trying to find out who they are, what matters to them. And then once you do that, then then you know, because they, they respond individually to say one thing to one person that reported to me say exactly the same thing to another person. They'd take it completely differently. Yes, yes. So I had when I retired once from Starbucks and when I came back, uh, to, uh, be present in North America, I had still been on the board, but there was a guy that I inherited from a guy that preceded me and he was in charge of strategy for North American retail and his name was Dan. And Dan was one of those kind of guys that he, his office was right next door to me. He was in my office every day over something. He was the most high maintenance guy I've ever worked with my life.
Howard Behar: And some people just couldn't deal with them. Always believed I wanted blonde hair, brown hair. I want a blue eyes, green eyes. I wanted people that thought differently from the other people I wanted. I wanted real diversity is about diversity of thought.
Amanda Hammett: Yes.
Howard Behar: And so I learned to deal with Dan and I figured out what the, you know, that he was, he was a guy that just needed lots of caring, but he was the smartest guy in my team. Abs without a question. He, he could see around corners like nobody else could see. Really. Yeah. He was the guy. He basically saved the food business. It's Starbucks and you know, he wasn't always the most, you know, people would complain that, uh, that he would, that he would break a lot of glass and he did. It wasn't that he didn't care about people but, but that, you know, he was the only dealt 50 cards and the 52 card deck and the two cards he was missing was where these empathy cards.
Howard Behar: Ah, I had to work with them all the time on the empathy. Did I ever get in perfect. Not while he reported it to me, but I still know him today and he really has moved because he focused.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah. That's fantastic.
Howard Behar: Yeah. He really moved. But he did it because he wanted to. So I had lots of different people and they were, they all were different. And I had to know each one individually what motivated them, what they cared about, where their strengths for where their weaknesses were and that helped them. Absolutely. And I'll be all they can be,
Amanda Hammett: That is fantastic. And what's even more fantastic is that he was able to accept the coaching from you, you know?
Howard Behar: Well, if you do, I want, if you can do, you can say anything to anybody as long as this with love in your heart and with caring and people know that you know it. Do they feel it? Yeah. If you constantly are beating people up, they're never going to listen to you. But you know, and nine times out of 10, the conversations we were having were always positive. So I had a lot of rocks on that scale. So when I said, you know, uh, uh, permission to coach, you know, I had ears open and heart open, which is most important.
Amanda Hammett: Yes. Because he was ready to accept whatever coach. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love that. So I'm now in the past and I've watched some other interviews that you've done in the past. Um, you have actually said that Starbucks has a really great recruiting program. Yeah. Now, what do you think really sets it apart? I mean, what, what makes it so special?
Howard Behar: Well, we, we lead with purpose, right? So that, that's the thing we talk about first and, and the truth is our recruiting program is our people. Yes. Right. That's what really works. In the early days, you know, we weren't exactly so people focused, and I coined this phrase that we weren't in the coffee business serving people. We are in the people business serving coffee. Yes. It took us time to really bring that into our organization. But once it was there, then you know, like Jim Collins says, you know, people that didn't fit would inject themselves like a virus, that virus and had started to be that all of the people that fit would start applying. And so our organization became, you know, the, the recruiters and, but it really was about purpose. First. It wasn't about skill sets first. And it was about who the human being was first.
Howard Behar: It wasn't about what their skills were, right or not. Because if you don't get, if you don't get to him inside, right, nothing else will happen. I don't care how smart you are. I don't care how technology technologically fit you are a professional. You are, it doesn't work. And we actually, you know, we made lots of mistakes, bring the wrong people into the organization, but the organization moved 'em out because they realized they didn't fit. And uh, that it was all about, you know, at the end of the day how we treated each other. And the first guiding principle at Starbucks is that we treat each other with respect and dignity. And the last guiding principle was we recognize it. Profitability is essential to our future growth and success. That wasn't the first thing was the last thing. That's what came out of all the guiding principles. Yes, yes.
Amanda Hammett: I agree. You know, one of the things, I started my career as a recruiter at a major fortune 500, and it was just, it was amazing. It was all about the skills, what's on the resume, what's on the resume? And I'm like, but if you can't work on a team, if you don't fit, this doesn't, this isn't going to work. And they're like, no, no, just focus on the skill. Um, and it's amazing because it's still like that today. And I've been in the workforce for years and I'm no longer a recruiter, but when I go in and work with these large companies, it's still very much, well what's on their resume? And I'm like, you don't understand. Like you need to really focus on the individual person, not what's on the skillset, but actually the individual person, how are they going to match? How are they gonna mold skills can be developed, but personality and who they are as a human being, that's, that's already there, that's already developed that determines the success or failure of an organization emotionally and what your culture is, you know, because the culture is a reflection of how you act, not what you say.
Howard Behar: And so if you bring people that don't fit into the organization, then people start to think, oh, that's how I need to behave. And then all of a sudden you get to call it. You don't, you know the culture you thought you had. You don't. And it's, there's no question about it. Focus on the people side first. I look, if you're hiring somebody that needs to be technically proficient and it, or accounting or something like that, fine. That that's their right, right. But at the end of the day, it's do they fit on the team and do they have what I need or can I teach, are they smart enough where I can teach them the skills because there's such a good people. I always hired people first. Yes. Always. You know, and uh, you know, and then, and then, you know, if there was something that they technically are experience that they needed to have.
Howard Behar: But you know, I heard a lot of people that didn't have perceived the resumes skills you wouldn't have, you had said, well, Geez, they don't have the resume that I need, but they had the people skills and I hired them and they fit perfectly and they learned the skills. Yes. Yup. Absolutely. So what career advice, because you know, one of the other things that I do a lot of, or I find myself doing a lot of his coaching and helping, uh, people who are earlier in their career. So what advice would you give for an early career employee? So someone who's fresh out of college. Oh Great. That's a good question. Number one, you got to know who you are, right? What are your, what are your values, right? And define those values and how do they inform the actions and the decisions you make in your life that's bad. And then, you know, right. What, what is your mission in life? Remember, all these things are not written in stone. This is not have to be the rest of your life. You know, they're not, they're not the 10 commandments there things that you can change, but you need to know what, why you're here, or at least an idea of why you're here. You know, I want to work, I want to help people. Right.
Amanda Hammett: Okay.
Howard Behar: You know, and I, I want to serve people that are in need, you know? And that helps guide you. And then you use those things to decide what kind of organization that you want to work in. C, we don't need to, we're not after a job.
Howard Behar: You know, we're trying to build a life. Yeah, we're trying to build a fulfilling life, which work is part of. And so you take your values and you overlay your values over the company's values, the organization's values. You overlay your mission over the company's mission and you'll say to these things, at least on paper, do they fit? Then if I paper they fit, then your work has just started because then what you want to do is go talk to people that work in the company. And the first question you should ask is, I, I've read your mission statement and the company's guiding principles or values statement, where, where do they not, where are they? The actions not in sync with the words. That's a great question cause you see it all the time because it's, it's there everywhere has that everywhere. They, even the wonderful Starbucks that I love dearly has that right. And you better when you've done that, then you better say, are these things I can live with or not live with? And another question you should ask is what are the, what are the, uh, what are the rewards, uh, spoken or the intrinsic rewards and what are the intrinsic penalties that happen when somebody does something well and somebody does something wrong? What happens when you screw something up in this organization?
Howard Behar: Oh, it tells us calibrate this mistakes or do they penalize mistakes? Does the organization shove you often in the noodle land, Netherlands and nobody will eat lunch with you because you made a mistake, you know, or did they all gather around and support you? So how do they act as human beings and you, you want to know the good, the bad and the ugly about any organization you're going to go to work with. And then before you go to work, I would not go to work for an organization that doesn't have you interview with your potential boss and there's lots of that do that. You'd never meet your boss until after you've been hired.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah.
Howard Behar: I would never take a job like that because I don't care how good the organization is, you know, or even sometimes how bad the organization is. If you get the right boss, somebody that respects other people and that you can respect and trust you and you trust stamp the world will be right. I agree.
Amanda Hammett: That is that, that was some fantastic advice right there. That was just like perfection.
Howard Behar: I would walk down the street and look at the person walking down the street or say, God, he's good looking. I'm going to marry that person. You know, you might fall in love because of how they look or something like that. Or maybe the clothes are wearing or you might get, you know, whatever. But you'll want to know more about them once. Yah, absolutely. That's what dating is about. That's what spending time together is about. And you find those things out, find the truth out.
Amanda Hammett: That isn't very, very true. Very true. All right, so similar question and this is our last question. Um, what advice would you give to a first time leader?
Howard Behar: I first time later. Don't take yourself too seriously, right? That uh, you know, on both sides of the ball you're not that good and you're not that bad. Love your people. And I mean love them. Use that word love right. You know, help your people be all they can be and you'll get what you need out of them. And they are read all the books you can get on servant leadership. And I, my, one of my favorites is a book from a gym. Uh, Jim James Autry does servant leadership and then get the daily Drucker. It's a book that, uh, that Peter Drucker, you know, it's all his stuff and he was a practitioner of servant leadership. He was a personal friend of Robert Greenleaf's. And use that as your guide and you know, and be willing to make mistakes and be willing to own up to your mistakes.That's number one, be vulnerable, be authentic. You know, you don't need to be the boss. Yes. You know, you don't need to be the boss. Screw up. Be the first one to raise your hand and say, I am sorry. served me well at home and in the office.
Amanda Hammett: I think that being able to own up to your mistakes is a major thing that people are so afraid of. But it's hard to do. It's so important because it builds trust with your, with your team, especially with millennials, they're very, they to have a little tendency to be distrusting. But if you are authentic and you own up to your mistakes, they see that and they build loyalty with that quicker than anything else.
Howard Behar: The boss who takes the bullets versus dodge the bullets, it will be my will be respected and the people will go to battle for them. If you dodge the bullets and let the bullet hit one of your people, they will. They trust me. They will never go to battle for you. And all you have to do is do that once you've totally broken trust and it takes forever to gain it back.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Howard Behar: And I've seen it happen so many times.
Howard Behar: Oh yes. It, it does. It happens unfortunately very regularly. Well, Mr be hard. Thank you so much for being on the show. This is, uh, been a wonderful, just chock full of great information both for young know next generation of leadership, but also for the current leaders out there who are looking to learn from one of the greats out there. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being on the show and we will.
Howard Behar: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I always late to talk about leadership.
Amanda Hammett: Well fantastic. Well you had so much to share and I appreciate it. Alright, take care. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars where we have discussed all about recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent.
Amanda Hammett: So I'm guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's rock star leader and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret, share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward. Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and you will see the next generation rockstars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post Howard Behar: Servant Leadership for Next Generation Talent appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Gen Z: Welcome to the Workforce! Now that we officially have 5 generations in the workforce, what strategies do we use to keep our multi-generational workforce engaged and productive? Season 2 will look at the leadership of all levels within companies from the Chief Human Resource Officer to a front line manager of early in career talent. What can each of these leaders bring to the table to help you as you navigate this new frontier in the workplace?
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The Transcript - Exploring Leadership Lessons for a Multi-Generational Workforce Welcome to the Next Generation Rockstars podcast. If you are trying to figure out how do you recruit and retain this next generation of rockstar talent? Well, you are in the right place. Alright, welcome, welcome, welcome to Season Two of the Next Generation Rockstars.
Now you heard that right, I didn't say millennial rock stars, I said next-generation rock stars. That is because, over our little break between seasons, we decided to do a whole name-change and rebrand so that we could really, fully welcome in Gen Z into the workforce. So now that Gen Z is here, they are starting to make their own waves on workplace culture, and we're really excited to see how that pans out for everyone. But this is a really interesting time to be in the working culture, to see really how all the generations combine and mix together because we do have five generations at work currently.
We've got Gen Z, we've got millennial, we have got of course Gen X, baby boomers, but we also still have some of the silent generations still there in the workplace and really giving it their all, even at this point in their career.
So, now that we're mixing things up, and now that we are all together, what can we learn from each other, what do we each bring to the table? Now it's really interesting because so far early in 2019, there have been multiple studies that have come up, or surveys of CEOs that have been put out asking CEOs, what are their top three concerns? In every survey so far that I've seen, they have listed recruiting talent and retaining talent as two of their top three concerns. Two of their top three concerns revolve around talent. That has got to tell you something. The war for talent is on, and it has been on for years and years, and years.
Now I know that there are people out there that are predicting a recession is coming, and that is very likely based on the cyclical nature of our economies. But what you should know is that that, when there's good talent on the line, there is always a war for that good talent, recession or not.
So Season Two is really gonna look at the development of talent, the recruitment of talent, and we're gonna be doing that, looking at that from the lens of leaders of young talent. So it is, we've interviewed CHROs, like Matt Schuyler from Hilton, I interviewed the Chief People Officer from Cisco Systems, Fran Katsoudas. I also interviewed the former Head of HR at Tesla, Alan Cherry. Howard Behar from Starbucks, former President of Starbucks, as well as numerous other major leaders in the talent development area. But, I didn't just stop there.
I went back to Season One's rock stars, and I started asking them, or I started really going back and looking, who did they specifically mention as people that have been pivotal in their careers? So, I went back and I gathered some of the leaders that made a big impression on some of Season One's rock stars, and I've got them coming on the show giving wonderful day-to-day in the trenches advice on how did they really go out there and developed rockstar talent? So they're in the trenches with them and they can give you some nuts-and-bolts advice. That, maybe someone from a CHRO perspective can give you a wide-angle view, but they're gonna be able to give you that in the job, day-to-day experience knowledge.
So, I hope that you will join us for the rest of Season Two, we've got a lot of wonderful, wonderful interviews, and trust me you are going to want to listen to each episode a couple of times, because some of these are just so chockfull of knowledge that you just need your notebook to follow along. Another thing that you might want to know is that I am listening, I am reading all of your comments, all of your messages. I was inundated with LinkedIn messages last year, I loved it, keep them coming, I want to read each and every one. And actually, one of the listeners suggested that Season Two examine the leadership of young talent, and I felt that that was a wonderful idea so I took it to heart.
So again, I am listening, I would love to hear what you have to say, and of course always, please subscribe, please share this with your friends, make some comments on your favorite podcast platform of your choice, and we will see you in the rest of Season Two.
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Next Generation Rockstars, where we have discussed all recruiting and retaining that next generation of talent. So I am guessing that you probably learned a tremendous amount from this week's Rockstar leader, and if that is the case, don't keep me a secret. Share this episode with the world, but really share it with your friends, with your colleagues, because they also need to learn how to recruit and retain this next generation of talent, because these skills are crucial to business success moving forward.
Now, of course, I want you to keep up to date every single week as we are dropping each and every episode. So be sure to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform of your choice and you will see the Next Generation Rockstars show up just for you.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post S2-EP1: Exploring Leadership Lessons for a Multi-Generational Workforce appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Millennials are often accused of having zero work ethic. That common misconception drove this young millennial to go out of her way to make sure she was not seen as a "lazy employee". Check out what happens next when she leans into her company's culture.
Delanie Olsen is the Marketing Specialist and Professional Storyteller at **Total Event Resources**. Total Event Resources is a meeting and event planning agency with a reputation for making waves. An Agency provides expert, award-winning strategic, creative, and logistical meeting and event services to clients who want to maximize the value and effectiveness of communicating in a live event environment.
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The Transcript - Breaking Millennial Stereotypes **Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, and this is the Millennial Rockstar podcast. So, today's rockstar is Delanie Olsen, and Delanie is this amazing, creative marketing and brand strategy just go-to juggernaut. And she is very young, only about three years out of college, and she has had a lot of responsibility on her shoulders, and the reason she was given so much responsibility in my opinion, was that she was very aware from the get-go right out of college, that there were all these negative stereotypes around the work ethic of millennials, and she wanted nothing more than to prove that she was nothing like that stereotype. And I think you'll find that her supervisors and all the people within the company that she was with really understood that she was nothing like those millennial stereotypes. So, tune in and find out what Delanie has to share. Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast. All right, today we have a super-duper special rockstar on the show, her name is Delanie Olsen. Delanie, welcome to the show.
Delanie Olsen: Hi there, thank you Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: So, I have to be very honest with you. There are some people in the business world that I absolutely love and adore. And one of them is from OneBridge Technologies, his name is Daryle Johnson. And Daryle was actually one of two people that recommended you to be on this show. So, Delanie, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Delanie Olsen: So I graduated from Butler University in Indianapolis about three years ago now, and my first job out of college was at OneBridge with Daryle. And I was the Marketing Coordinator to start off with and then I got promoted to be Marketing Specialist. And after two years of living, working in Indianapolis, I decided it was time to go home, my whole family lived up in Chicago, so I ended up finding a marketing specialist role with an events company called Total Event Resources in Chicago, and so I just moved up here about three months ago and started this new role.
Amanda Hammett: Very, very cool. So it's a really exciting time of transition in your career, which is awesome. But I happened to know that you learned a lot in your old role.
Delanie Olsen: Yes. OneBridge was very important to me, the people there were out of this world. I remember being so incredibly nervous and thinking that I was just gonna fall flat on my face from day one, and it was the complete opposite of that, and I grew into this marketing professional that I just never thought I would even become five years from now, let alone a year and a half, two years after first starting there.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Well, that is one thing that Eric told me when he and I spoke about you. He actually said that he had taken over that role, and he said, "You know, it's always worrisome "when you're taking on a new role "knowing that you're inheriting some employees. "I was worried going into it, "but after spending like a week with her, "I knew that this was meant to be."
Delanie Olsen: Yes. I was just as worried as he was. I was really close with my first supervisor, and that was the first person that really didn't treat me like a millennial, and I respected that, so I was a little nervous with the change in positions. When Eric came in, it was the same exact thing. He didn't look at me as a different generation than him, or that I wasn't as experienced as him yet. He wanted to know what I was good at, and then he put those abilities to work.
Amanda Hammett: That's great. That's what a good leader does.
Delanie Olsen: Yes.
Amanda Hammett: That's exactly what a good leader does. Well, fantastic. All right, so I know that you are three years into your career, but I would assume that you have hit some bumps along the road already. Could you give us a little background or a little bit of information about those little bumps for you?
Delanie Olsen: Yes, of course. The biggest one was probably, I was thrown into a very, very large project. OneBridge was rebranding. They were originally SmartIT, and then were transitioning over to OneBridge. It was pretty exciting, because I loved brand marketing, I was super passionate about it, and they wanted the marketing department to take on that responsibility, to come up with this rebrand and put it into action, which was great. But during the rebrand, I had a change in supervisors. So I just remember, I was like okay, they're gonna take everything that I've started and it's just gonna get flipped over and turned around because who's gonna trust the girl who's been out of school for a year and a half to finish off an entire company's rebrand? They hadn't found someone else yet to fill my supervisor's position, and I was extremely nervous about it. I remember I went into my first meeting and it was with Kim, the Director of Employee Engagement, it was the exact opposite of that. She took everything, she said, "Okay, let's lay it out. "What have you been doing so far, "what do you want to do moving forward, "and let's make sure that all of your ideas "and plans get executed like you wanted "them to from day one." And I respected that so much because she wasn't looking at my work as my old supervisor's work. She wanted to know, she knew I had a part in it, and that was that. So I got to move forward with it, but the whole process was a bump in the road because it was scary being that young and being given that role. And then Eric eventually did jump in, and that was a breath of fresh air because I had someone else to help me launch this new brand, so he was there for the last three months of it, and all in all, the project lasted a year. It was a lot of work, we had one company we were working on the website with, and I thought I had nailed down and it was going smoothly, and then a month before we were supposed to launch the new brand and the website, they said "We can't get it done until three months from now," and so we just had to roll with it. It was surprising how many people, no matter what generation they were, they knew I didn't have that much experience, they still trusted me because they knew I worked hard and I really appreciated that.
Amanda Hammett: Now, I have a question here. I love your CEO over there, I think she is phenomenal. We've already talked about it, I love Daryle. But you are young. And that is an incredible, I mean the CEO of there, she has built that up to what, like 50 million?
Delanie Olsen: Yes.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah. I mean, that's not a small enterprise over there and they have some incredible clients, and huge, huge enterprise clients, and for them to make this huge transition in branding, naming, business model, I mean that's a lot to put on your shoulders at 23, 24?
Delanie Olsen: Yes, 23-24.
Amanda Hammett: I'm just curious, how did you get it to the point where they trusted you to do that?
Delanie Olsen: Well, that's funny because Daryle always talks. He says, "You were a flip of a switch." I don't know why but I've always had this. Right when I graduated college, I felt like the millennial stereotype was huge at that time and that was the last thing I wanted. I never wanted to be seen as this lazy worker, or I only wanted to be there for perks, or anything like that. And so I was paranoid about that. So I remember for probably like the first six months of working there, I wasn't really myself because I was like, "I gotta be this person." It wasn't because of anyone I was working with and that they made me feel like I couldn't be, it was just that I felt like I needed to be someone because of that millennial stereotype. And then, I don't know what actually changed, and it was even like how I was dressing and everything, I wasn't really showing my personality in my clothes, and I was wearing all black every day, and I was like, "That's not me," and so something changed and I just started to speak up a little bit more and show my personality in the work that I was doing and just in my demeanor every day, I started to, we had to dress business professional every day, and I kept that up but I was still being myself in how I was dressing. People started to notice. I remember my supervisor at the time said, "I follow you on social media, "and I feel like you're acting "more like yourself now to me." And I don't know what it was, but once that happened, I think people started to realize that yes, I am younger but even if when I am being myself I was still a hard worker, I got things done, and I got them done well. So Daryle even says, "There was this one day where you "just came into this meeting," and he's like, "You just blew me away. "You were talking more than you've ever talked, "and you had ideas and you knew that "they needed to be done, and you got them done." So I think it was a good feeling that other people around me besides just people who are higher up in the company saw this in me and trusted me because they would come to me then every day with whatever it was. So then I think people higher up started to see that, "Oh, Delanie's wearing a lot of hats. "She's helping out people in departments "that probably doesn't even have to do with marketing, "but she jumped in to help out." And so I think that that's what really kind of put the trust in me when it came to that, because they were under a time constraint and they saw that I was getting stuff done on a usual basis, so why not trust that I would get it done now, even though I didn't necessarily have someone directly supervising me. And Kim played a huge role in that. She had so much going on, the last thing she needed to worry about was the rebrand of a company, but she made time for me and made time to hear what I had to say and wanted to know why I was doing something a certain way, and I really respected that. So I think that that helped as well, having her by my side to kind of support me, even though it wasn't necessarily her forte.
Amanda Hammett: Right. That's amazing, and it sounds like, and having just bee a third-party spectator to this whole rebrand, it really really sounds like the communication lines were very open in all directions. Sometimes it's just from the top down, but it really sounds like it was coming out from everyone.
Delanie Olsen: They did an amazing job with that. They told me from day one, "If you're questioning "something about the brand and you "were in a meeting and everyone was one way "but you feel another way, come back to us "and re-present it then. "Tell us why it needs to be that way." And so I really appreciated that because again, they let me have a voice and they knew that it was something that I was passionate about and I was good at, so they let me run with it. And they have an open-door policy there and I know that's so cliche and you probably hear that all the time, but they truly mean it. The CEO sat in the Indianapolis office, and he, didn't matter when it was, if he just got a really important call, he just got off of it and he needed to debrief, no, if you needed something, if there was a concern, come into his office and talk to him about it. I think that that was really beneficial too.
Amanda Hammett: That's fantastic. Especially in a time of these major, major transitions, that's really
Delanie Olsen: Yes.
Amanda Hammett: All right, so we've talked over some stumbling blocks and some lessons learned, but let's circle back a little bit further. You graduated from college three years ago, right?
Delanie Olsen: Yes.
Amanda Hammett: Okay. So think back to Delanie three years ago, pre-work Delanie. Did you have this idea in your mind about what corporate America or the working world was gonna be like? And how does that interface with the realities of working the working world?
Delanie Olsen: So, I had this image that it was cubicles and cubicles, and I was gonna sit there all day and you weren't gonna see the sunlight and you got your work done...
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Delanie Olsen: Not that you weren't friends with people, but why would you go out after work with people if you work with them all day? I had that image in my head. I don't know, have you been to the OneBridge office before?
Amanda Hammett: No, I have not.
Delanie Olsen: So, this will change your mindset on everything. I walked into this office, and it's so modern, it's very open and they have collaborative workspaces and they have a huge break room with a ping-pong table, and I walked in there and I was like, where am I interviewing? What is this? And I was so blown away by that and it was funny because my parents, I get out of the interview and I'm telling them all about the office, and my Dad goes, "Well, I don't care about the office. "What about the position? "What about the people?" And I was like, "Oh, you're right." That was bad that I was so concerned about the office, but I think as millennials we kind of have that picture in our head that that's what something's gonna be like, so that really threw me off. But luckily OneBridge doesn't just focus on the perks. They focus on you as an employee first and the perks come second. That is what I've come to love and have looked for in companies, and I know other people appreciate it at OneBridge. So it was different, going into that environment and people said, be like, "How do you get work done? "Like, you guys have a beer fridge." And you know, it's just whatever, but it's there, it's different. They focus on you as an employee and educating you and making sure you are advancing in your career and the perks were just second nature. So I did have a very different thought in my head about what it was all gonna be like, and OneBridge threw all of those out the door. Especially work from home life balance. Sometimes I was like, "Oh, I have a doctor's appointment "and it's an hour across town with traffic, "and then I gotta come back to the office." And they're like, "Well, why don't you just work from home?" And I was like, is that allowed? Can you do that? So that was another one that I kinda had in my head, that you went to work eight to five, and you were there unless your really did have a vacation day and you took it. But they threw that one out the door too. If you were honestly sick or if you just needed to work from home 'cause you needed a different environment, go for it. As long as you're getting your work done and it's done on time, it doesn't matter where you're doing it. I really did appreciate that as well, and that was definitely a change of what was going on in my head when I was interviewing at places.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. That's cool. I mean, I am a big fan of the leadership over there at OneBridge. It obviously is well documented, my love for Daryle.
Delanie Olsen: Oh yes. I get that. There was another actually, I guess he would be a millennial as well, that worked at OneBridge. He's still there, he's in the recruiting department, and he wrote a blog post all about how it's not about the perks. That's great, I love them, I love having the snack bar and all that, but I think he said something like great perks should be the symptom of a great company culture, that they can't be the cause of it. That it's...
Amanda Hammett: I like that.
Delanie Olsen: And yes. I'll have to send you the link to the blog...
Amanda Hammett: You know.
Delanie Olsen: their website. But when he wrote that and obviously it came to me first in marketing, and he's like, "What do you think? 'Cause we just won an award for the best places to work and he's like, "Should this be, should we put this on the site? "Should we put it on social?" And I was like, "Yes." Because I think so many younger kids are now seeing all of these perks in these companies and they want to work there right away. And they're like, "Oh, they have a LaCroix fridge." Oh, well, that's great, but are they gonna treat you right as an employee? So I think it's good to have people who are younger already noticing those things. A company might have all those great perks, but if they're not treating you right as an employee and not wanting you to succeed and advance and become educated even more, then there's no point in taking that job.
Amanda Hammett: I agree, and you would be surprised how often you see that.
Delanie Olsen: Yes, I can imagine. Well, even like I said, OneBridge is, I'm sure people walk into there and they're like, "Yup, I'm in. "I'm done. "I'm walking to work here." But you know, it was a good experience for me to take a step back and say, is this actually gonna be a good company for me to work at?
Amanda Hammett: I agree, I agree. With Karen Cooper at the helm, I don't think you could go wrong.
Delanie Olsen: You can't go wrong, I know. She's amazing.
Amanda Hammett: I want to be Karen Cooper when I grow up.
Delanie Olsen: Oh, yes,agree. And I don't know if I'm attracted to this women-owned companies that are just absolutely killing it, but the new company I'm working at is actually a woman-owned one as well and that really stood out to me. And I feel that now that I had that experience with Karen, and had such a strong relationship, and there was a few other women as well that were higher up at OneBridge that just, they beat all of the stereotypes and they really cared about me and my future, and so when I was moving to Chicago I wanted that again. I was lucky enough to find that again, but it's definitely something that I appreciate in an organization.
Amanda Hammett: That's amazing. I love, love, love, love, love that. So, let's take a look back either at OneBridge or at your current company. Is there anything specific, and we've kinda touched on this already, but is there anything specific that your boss or a mentor has done that keeps you engaged and productive and really wanting to work hard? Besides, let's think outside of that whole rebranding experience.
Delanie Olsen: Yes. I definitely say caring about my passions outside of work. And I know that sounds a little like, oh, well work is work and home is home, and maybe that's a stereotype I had as well when I was first looking for a job, but every mentor that I've had either at OneBridge or I already see it now with my current supervisor at Total Events, is they're asking me questions about well, I have a blog on the side. "So, well, what's going on with that? "Let's see it. "How are things going with that?" And I just truly appreciate that because sometimes you do need to take a step back from work. And sometimes you're so stressed out about something at work that I wasn't getting things done because I was letting it clog my mind, but if I could focus on other things and you kind of relax and then you can go back to something. So I really appreciated it because Eric did a really good job at that. He was always like, "What's going on?" He was excited about things I was doing on the side and I really appreciated that. Even my first supervisor, when I first told her, "Oh, I wanna start this blog," she got me a new jacket and was like, "I want to help your passion for fashion, "and I want you to roll with it." I did not expect that at all, and I really appreciated that because then it made your everyday job that much better because people actually did care about you and cared about you outside of work as well. So I definitely think that that helped because work is a lot, and sometimes you're gonna get worn out and so it's good to take a step back and I really do appreciate that from people. And also Daryle did a really good job of this. Even when I know I might be wrong about something, or if I don't know if the idea's totally there yet, he makes me run with it until it gets to that point where it's like, nope, I need to change gears here. Sometimes you have to see something totally through for all of your creative ideas, and just all of that to come out, and I've had people in my life in internships before to talk to those, where they stop you so quickly. It's, "Ah, nah, we did that before "and it didn't work and we're not gonna "let you go there." But someone could bring a totally different experience to something like that, so Daryle did a really good job with always telling me to fully finish something through. If I have an idea, run with it, and wait until it gets to the total end before I say, "Ah, that was a flop."
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Delanie Olsen: So he did a really good job with that and I 100% appreciate that. And it was funny because I would see that in him, too. He would come to me with some crazy idea and at first I'd be like, "Wait, I don't know if we got time for this. "I don't know if we should keep talking about this." And then he would keep going more and I'd let him keep going, and it would spin out into something amazing, and I'm like, we should have been doing this a year ago. So I think it's good for a mentor, a supervisor, whatever, to really let you take the reins on a project or just something and let you see it through because you teach yourself a lot in that as well.
Amanda Hammett: Yes. You do, you do learn a lot about the process but also about yourself and your skills and all right, that's not where I need to be going or maybe this is something I need to investigate further.
Delanie Olsen: Exactly.
Delanie Olsen: Yeah, absolutely. But you don't find these things out if you're in this little box.
Delanie Olsen: And I've been in that, I feel like I've been in that box with some internships I felt I was just so restricted. And I get, you're an intern and whatever, but I had an internship where it wasn't like that and it was like go for it and that's when I first realized that I wanted to find a company after college that still gave me that freedom.
Amanda Hammett: Very cool, very cool. All right, so we just discussed the perks that you guys have and I know about the beer fridge, Karen and I had discussed it. But what is it about the perks or the culture, or what is it that just keeps you just excited and engaged and wanting to get up every day and let's do this again, let's fix something, let's do this again?
Delanie Olsen: Oh yeah. I again think it's getting to see a project all the way through. I've even seen this now, so I'm not fully immersed yet in my new company. I'm still getting the hang of things, but my supervisor was helping out with an event and it was finally the day of the event and she was there all day. She got there at eight in the morning, was there until five, and the actual main part of the event wasn't starting until 10:00 at night, but she just had a little girl and so she had to get home, and so she asked me, she said, "Can you be there and can you see this through?" And I saw how hard it was for her to not be there, that that project was her baby and she really wanted to see it all through and I remember feeling that way about certain projects, where you're like, I just need to see this through and I wanna see the end of it, and when you get to see all of that it's the best feeling in the world and that's what gets you go back the next day and then do it all over again for another client or another event or whatever it is. So I saw how hard it was for her and so I made sure I was taking videos and photos left and right because I wanted her to still kind of experience it, but I think that that is one way to definitely keep you motivated because everyone loves that feeling of accomplishment. You don't necessarily need to hear it from everyone, like, "Oh, you did such a great job with this." If you just see it with your own eyes that's the best feeling and then that gets me going again and I wanna come up with another idea and see that one through. So, I definitely think just focusing on just wanting to do things from start to finish and just maybe on your own saying I can handle this by myself and then seeing it all the way through. It keeps me motivated at least.
Amanda Hammett: I think that your answer there really circles back to at the beginning when you were talking about you wanted to prove that you were this hard worker. I think that that answer alone because you're like, I have a hard time giving up projects that I wanted to see to fruition. And I think that that's a sign of someone who has poured their heart and soul into something.
Delanie Olsen: Yes, I agree. I think that also goes back to this millennial stereotype too, because it is the not as hard working as some of the older generations and things like that, but honestly I feel like I worked great with some of the older generations, and they never said to me, "Oh, you're a millennial." People might have made jokes here and there when I did something, and I really appreciated that because they wanted to learn things that I knew about that they didn't know about like social media, and I wanted to learn things that I didn't know either from the beginning. I think it's good to kind of have that mix in the workplace as well, it's important. And I've seen some people of the older generation jump on social media. When we had to do a social media branding for the company, they wanted people to try and be more engaging on LinkedIn and things like that. I had people coming up to me, "Well, I already have a LinkedIn, "I want a Twitter now. "I want you to help me out with this, "and I want to recruit candidates through Twitter." I loved that 'cause it didn't make me feel like the millennial who just sits on social media all day, because they actually saw some value out of it and so I think it's good to have that mix in the workplace. I think it's very important because everyone's gonna bring something else to the table.
Amanda Hammett: That is something that I talk about all the time. We each bring strengths and from our generations to the table, and it's just about accepting them and learning from each other. You'd be surprised how many companies I talk to and they're like, "Yeah, we don't hire millennials," and I'm like...
Delanie Olsen: I would not think that.
Amanda Hammett: I don't understand like, literally, how is this going to work for you.
Delanie Olsen: Yes. And I've gotten since I was going through this process of looking for a job, and I actually remember getting this even before I got my job at OneBridge when I was looking for a company. It was the strangest thing, in an interview I'd sit there for 20 minutes and show in my portfolio or talk about all of my hard work and my experience. And then they would ask me the question, "So, as a millennial, what do you think "your work ethic is like?" And I'm like, "I just told you what my work "ethic is like. Just because you put a name "on it doesn't mean I change my work ethic "all of a sudden, I swear it's the "same that I just talked about." So I always found that question to be so strange in an interview. I just kind of defer it back, and I'd say, "Well, you know, I just went over everything, "and I don't think it changes just because "you put a millennial phrase in front of my name." So I definitely find that weird that some companies focus so highly on that when I think it is important to have a mix of different generations.
Amanda Hammett: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, I will tell you that in speaking with Eric and Karen and Daryle, they all will attest to the fact that you have a very, very strong work ethic.
Delanie Olsen: Well, that makes me happy, thank you.
Amanda Hammett: So the next time you need to look for a job, just take this tape I swear, I'm a great hard worker. A CEO and all these other people say that I'm a very hard worker.
Delanie Olsen: I love that. I mean, they were one good company to land after college that is for sure. I definitely lucked out there.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. They're fantastic. Is there anything, you've kind of touched on this but I'd like to dig into this a little bit more, is there anything that you wish that companies knew about recruiting younger employees?
Delanie Olsen: That is a good question. Let me think about this one. Definitely the whole stereotype around the work from home, how millennials are the ones who want to work from home and we've got to start to accommodate for that in our organization. Which I think is great if you are starting to like, maybe like a one day a week, things like that, but I think it's funny 'cause I don't think it just has to do with millennials. As I talk to other people, other generations, even my Dad, he's been starting to work from home at least two days a week, and he is all about it. He is getting more done first of all, because he's probably like me and he talks a lot when he's at work. He loves to socialize. But I don't think that the working from home should be a thing that's connected to millennials because I think it's just a fact that we have so much technology nowadays and a lot of positions, some not so much, but a lot of positions you can work from home now and get all of the same work done just as hard as anyone else. So for a company that's maybe trying to appeal to millennials, don't necessarily just throw those certain things out there 'cause you're like oh they'll grab onto that. I think that goes to anyone. If you're wanting to hire good talent for your organization, everyone feels that way nowadays and with all the technology giving them a little bit of that freedom is a positive thing.
Amanda Hammett: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Delanie Olsen: That's definitely one of them. Just I love the idea of ongoing education. I'm not saying it necessarily needs to be where you have money set aside, because you may not be at that point if you're a smaller company but still wanting to appeal to millennials. But there's a lot of free resources out there so maybe if it is a class on... There was a class on SEO and I was really interested in taking it. It ended up being a free class in but it was at I-30s and it was gonna take me an hour to get there. So I told my supervisor, "Hey, I'm really interested in this "and I think it will be beneficial for us." And she's like, "Get your butt over there." She's like, "That's okay that you're leaving early." She's like, "This is good for us." So, I think ongoing education, I think it's the CEO maybe of Microsoft that said this. I'm not taking credit for this 'cause I love this quote. But he said, "I'm not a know-it-all, I'm a learn-it-all." I love that because I'm definitely not a know-it-all, I have to teach myself things over and over again, I have a terrible memory. So when I heard that, I appreciated that a lot. I think if companies really focus on just that ongoing education because with technology everything changes so quickly especially in the marketing world that I'm in I swear there's something new every day. Just having that ability for my supervisor to say, "Hey, you should go to this workshop. "I know it's during the day, "but it's free, even if it's not in our budget, "and I think that you're gonna learn from it "and I know you'll provide value to the organization." I just started two months ago at this company, and in the first two weeks the CEO sent me an email and was like, "Hey, there's this social media workshop "downtown, I want you to go to this, "I think it's gonna be great, "it's a women-owned organization and "I know you're passionate about that." And I was like, "Oh, I just started here two weeks ago." So I think that ongoing education should be important to millennials but also everyone, so using that kind of as a way to look for that top talent is super important.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. What I see over and over again just in the 20 interviews that I've done for the Rockstars so far, almost everybody that I can think of off the top of my head that I've interviewed thus far has mentioned this need for ongoing learning, this ongoing challenge of what can they learn next? They're not content to just sit in this stationery position day in day out doing the exact same thing. They want that learning because it's challenging to them and it keeps them going and it keeps them wanting to go.
Delanie Olsen: I've had friends who started out as an organization as one position, and as two years pass and they've kind of started to dip their feet into other things and they've got interested in other things, the organizations let them completely switch to a different department. And when I hear that, I love that because again work is kind of lower, life is short and work is lower on that totem pole, and if you know that you're not super happy with something but you love the organization, if they let you kind of flop that quickly to something else and jump into it, I totally respect that. I think that is amazing across the board. And yes it is harder with smaller companies again, but it is probably a little bit easier with the bigger organization but I think that's a really cool trait to have as an organization.
Amanda Hammett: It is. And you hit the nail on the head when you said two years, because that seems to be the magic number, right? In that timeframe we start getting a little antsy, and what can I do to add to my skillset, and yes absolutely.
Delanie Olsen: I do think, give a position or just anything, time because like you said, the two years. I feel like when I've jumped from something, one thing to the other and I didn't give it enough time then I'm mad at myself. Because I'm like what it if was something I would have been passionate about. And that's why internships are always hard for me 'cause I'm like this wasn't enough time.
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Delanie Olsen: How do I know that this isn't... I had an internship at a radio station and I was doing live on air types stuff and I loved it but at the same time I was like, "I don't know if this is me," but then after three months, I was gone. And I was like, I don't really have that opportunity again. So internships are a struggle for me because I was kinda mad that it was, it kinda kept me in that short time period and I didn't know if I fully felt one way or another about it.
Amanda Hammett: Oh, that's hilarious. I've actually never heard anyone say that about an internship, I mean I've talked to thousands of people about internships...
Delanie Olsen: Well, this just shows you how weird I am about that. I had an internship and it wasn't like fully what I thought I was gonna be into but after I was done, they were like, "Hey, you were really good at this. "We need to pull our freelancer because "we're still just really super swamped with clients." And I was in college, I was like this is a good opportunity, in the end I'll know if I really don't like this. And my mom's like, are you sure you want to keep going? And sure enough, after about four more months of that, I knew I didn't want to keep doing that.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. X that one off.
Delanie Olsen: Yes. I think it's a good chance to keep things rolling. But I guess if you know within a week and you're like, oh no, then maybe it is not meant to be.
Amanda Hammett: All right. Well, there you go. Delanie, this has just been an absolute pleasure. I mean, I knew it would be just based on the two people that recommended you and just how phenomenal they are and just the high praises they had for you. But it really has been a pleasure, thank you so much for sharing with me and our audience, thank you. All right everybody. Thank you so much for joining us in this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Be sure and check out the next episodes coming live to you, and we will see you soon. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com the link is below, it's amandahammett.com There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millenials engaged on a day to day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
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For those who are looking to develop millennials, it is important to realize they value their personal lives. This millennial learned through mentorship that service both in his personal and his professional life not only fulfills him both also those around him.
Jarred Morgan, MBA is a Strategy & Change Management Consultant at Expressworks International. He is also the President and CEO at TechnipFMC. Extensive background in exploring the relationships in data and revealing their stories. A trusted resource of organizational leaders in developing and executing change readiness plans, communications strategies, and lessons learned activities. A well-rounded practitioner of OCM strategies, leadership engagement, SMEs and cross-functional teams.
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The Transcript - Learning to Communicate Across Generations **00:05 Amanda:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast.
00:10 Amanda: Hey, and welcome to this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. So in today's podcast, the rockstar we had is Jarred Morgan of ExpressWorks International. And Jarred had, I don't know, so many pieces of great advice throughout the entire interview, but the one thing that really sticks out to me is when he said, "Show up on time, and do what you say you're going to do." And I think that that's fantastic advice. Not only for millennials in the workforce, but for everybody in the workforce. Can you imagine the different world that we would live in if everybody lived by that philosophy? So join me and watch Jarred Morgan as he shares with us even more fantastic information.
00:52 Amanda: Hey there, this is Amanda Hammett. And I'm known as Millennial Translator® because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And today's episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast brings us a very special and hard to get rockstar. Today's rockstar is Jarred Morgan. Jarred, welcome to the show.
01:13 Jarred: Thank you, thank you for having me. And I'm so sorry for the constant follow-ups that we've had, chasing each other down. I take ownership for that.
01:24 Amanda: No sir, no sir, this was... We've had some difficulties getting on each other's schedules but I just chalk it up to we are two busy, in-demand people. How about that?
01:38 Jarred: I will not deny that. If that's what you wanna bestow upon me, for sure.
01:41 Amanda: Absolutely. So the interesting thing about this show is that everybody who is a guest on the show has to be nominated by a coworker, a boss, or somebody who can really vouch for your work ethic, who can vouch for the fact that you are nothing like a millennial stereotype of lazy and entitled. And the interesting thing is, is I put the call out to my network and a gentleman in my network put it out to his network. And that's where you came from, you were actually nominated by, anonymously, by an organization that you are very involved with. So you don't know the person. I don't know who it was either. But tell us a little bit about that organization that nominated you, the Emerging 100.
02:28 Jarred: Thank you to whoever felt me worthy to do so. Emerging 100 of Houston is an auxiliary organization of 100 Black Men of America, originally founded about... Over 60 years ago in New York City. And it was geared toward making sure that there was a pipeline of mentoring from many men of color toward boys of color, and it's since expanded to include young girls as well, and even young adult women. So, through the Collegiate 100 chapters that we have across the nation in various universities, it's over 50-something chapters, I think, for Collegiate. Within Emerging, Emerging is really somewhat new. Ties into the aspect of your show. Millennials. So it tries to grab that 35 through 22 bracket and provide them with an opportunity to fellowship among themselves, drive results within the community and without the heavy-handed oversight of, say, differences in generation. So normally what would have happened is someone would apply to become a part of 100 Black Men of America, but now there is an age limit there. And so it allows us to create our own space and be creative in it, and deliver impact to the community.
04:01 Amanda: That is fantastic, I'm always for delivering impact to the community. Whatever that...
04:07 Jarred: Yeah, yeah. I'm a huge, huge proponent of that for sure.
04:09 Amanda: That is amazing, and I appreciate that. So one of the things that they had to say about you in the nomination form was that you put your money, your time, and your effort into where your mouth is. So you don't just talk, you do. And I think that that's important. That action taking, I think is important. And I would imagine that you don't just have that action taking in your outside, your extracurricular. I would imagine you have that in your career as well. So tell us a little bit about your career, what do you do now, what's going on there?
04:47 Jarred: So let me see, the best phrase for what I do... Management consulting is the more, I guess, accepted term but more specifically in that space among those who know about management consulting, I'm in OCM. So people management, behavioral influence, and corporate communications, internally speaking, are the three main buckets of what I focus my nine-to-five skill set on. I currently work for ExpressWorks International. It's a firm of consultants that are located pretty much all over the globe. But specifically with strongholds in Houston, San Francisco, and the Netherlands, England. But that's who I work for. I enjoy it very much. I have been with this firm for the past five months and it's honestly been transformational to my career.
05:49 Amanda: Transformational is not a word that you hear a whole lot in talking about careers and career paths.
05:57 Jarred: So those who don't like quote unquote "empty phrases" from the corporate world, please forgive me, you'll hear a lot of them as I use them often. But what is perceived as to be empty, I try to provide more impact and context around. So I don't just say things to just say it on an email, I say it out into that there's some way you can say that you can see that word somewhere. So I do apologize that I do have some skills in corporate speak, but not necessarily in a quote unquote corporate do... I'm a doer. Or I strive to be.
06:34 Amanda: I picked that up in your nomination form a little bit. So tell us a little bit about... So you were telling me before, we are on the call that you just turned 33. So again, happy birthday.
06:47 Jarred: Are you sure of my age?
06:51 Amanda: Oh, I'm so sorry, you turned 23. I'm so sorry.
[laughter]
06:54 Jarred: How dare you? Okay.
06:56 Amanda: So you just had a birthday, which means that you've been in the workforce for a little while, you have some years under your belt, you're not just new into the career path, into your career path. Now, tell us a little bit about... Have you found anything that has really worked for you in your career? Whether it's a mantra or a methodology or something in particular. What's worked for you?
07:23 Jarred: Well, it sounds weird and not to be a corporate shrill if you will, but we have a saying here that if you show up on time and do what you say, that's huge. I've even had the examples of whether someone will say, "Hey, if I didn't have everything I needed to have," it's a meeting call, "Is it okay for maybe just cancel it? And wait till I have more of it?" And it's important to show up and do as you said you would do. So if you don't even have that, at least have the response of why you don't have it, what are some of the things you need to, in order to get to it, but still stick to those times. Sticking to those times are huge. It's something that I have previously struggled with because I'm such a fluid thinker. I think, is it left-brain? Left brain is the more creative hemisphere? Or is it right?
08:20 Amanda: I always get it confused.
08:22 Jarred: I should know that and especially if I'm bringing it up. But I am naturally that type of person, and so I've had to get better at being hard stopping to dates and times, but it's a priority struggle in terms of understanding that. Especially when you're in my space of being somewhat of a seasoned rookie, if that makes any sense, right? Like this person who has a little bit more experience under his belt but still has plenty of room for growth. So I would say that that one, one of the quotes that I think I have in my signature is "Service is the rent you pay for the space that you occupy on Earth." And so for all the things that you have been given, an opportunity to work for, an opportunity to go out and get, you have to pay it forward. And it feels good to pay it forward. Usually that energy, I think, trumps any personal achievement.
09:22 Jarred: And I'm willing to test anyone on that theory, but I say those two and maybe one more. Keep it simple, stupid. You gotta keep things very simple. I have a tendency to be very verbose and I've had to learn how to narrow that down. And so a lot of times what I noticed is that people who seem to be a little struggling in their career or in general, is that they don't really keep it simple, they think more is better, but a lot of times in more is less. I get lost in translation, I don't see your main points, I'm confused and now I'm immobilized now. So now I'm paralyzed to do nothing for you. So keep it simple. Don't just throw information to just throw it. Data is just data until you give it context and a story, it's just data. No actual items can come from it. So I would say those are the things that I learned, and probably learned a little of it the hard way in the beginning of my career. But... 'cause I... Audiences matter, who's reading, what you're getting and what are their intentions with that information and everything like that matters. I'm one of those people that, you could throw me in front of an almanac and I can read it all day long. Because I'm a fact information-based person, but there are people who are creative, there are people who are listeners, there are people who are visual, and so you have to really understand your audience in order to communicate effectively. So in a roundabout way, everything in my life has been a...
[laughter]
11:03 Jarred: Everything is an example. Sorry, but yeah, I'm passionate about those three things, I think.
11:10 Amanda: That's awesome.
11:10 Jarred: At least today.
11:11 Amanda: At least today.
11:12 Jarred: At least today.
[laughter]
11:16 Amanda: Let's talk about some of the harder lessons learned, some of the stumbling blocks that you've faced. Because I know that I've had multiple, multiple stumbling blocks in my own career. So tell us, give us an example of one major stumbling block that you faced and how did you overcome it? What did you do?
11:38 Jarred: So it was within the gold program at Johnson and Johnson, where I went after graduating from grad school. So it was my first big boy job, if you will. And on my second rotation, I was put in in a Quality Engineer role. Totally outside of my background, I have no background in bio mix. I have very little understanding of engineering outside, say, some high school training. So a lot of that was foreign to me, and a lot of the jobs in which I was responsible for were older. So older generation. And so I got some lumps when I tried to jump straight into work with a... I could pinpoint who they were, right? I could read that characteristics of baby boomers. What are some of the challenges they face? What are some of their communication styles? I can read that. And so I had some of that when I didn't understand how they viewed me. They saw as me as this millennial. And I don't consider myself a millennial, you know what I mean? In different contexts, I think... When I came out of college, I was called Gen-Y. SO I didn't know where millennial came from. But they see me as that because they're continuously seeing it in marketing feeds, you name it.
13:07 Amanda: Yup, everywhere.
13:08 Jarred: One of the millennials. He's gonna rush to judgement. He's not gonna take your opinion into factoring. He's not going to have an appreciation for what you know or what you've taken time to learn. And he's gonna always need constant gratification and re-affirmation of who he is or what he's doing. All of which of knowing me equally. And so when I finally understood that that was how he they were viewing me, I was able to create an environment where we could have some of that real talk of... Back in my day, those conversations and they were realizing how different I was from what they had perceived was huge. And then from then on, I mean we're talking about week turnaround on stuff that I needed when it was taking three weeks or more. I started to get prioritized and the things that nature. Some of it is just truly human interaction. I'm naturally an introvert. So even though I can crack jokes, I can be social, it's been a learned attribute. So if I can sit at my computer and send emails, the natural side of me will be quite okay with that. That's not how people react, it's not how people move in the world. And so, those lumps, I think, were mostly from a social standpoint: Finding how to hear my own voice in a corporate setting, being okay with that voice, and making sure that that was communicated to others. So it took some time to get there.
14:46 Amanda: Oh, that's cool. Alright. That's a very, very good example. And I think that it's something that I hear a lot of, is millennials, younger millennials, are in a position where they're now managing or depending on older generations, and they're being looked at as this kid. And nobody wants to take the kid seriously, and so how do you manage that? And I think that you managed it beautifully, honestly. I know that it was a learning curve for you, but I feel like you did a good job. So, congratulations.
15:19 Jarred: Oh, thank you. And I think sometimes all learning opportunities will be successful. So sometimes there won't be a good result. Sometimes you might end up being let go, fired, etc., but as long you learned something from all those experiences, it's a lesson learned. It doesn't have to necessarily end with a favorable conclusion that you desire, as long as you learn. That's really the key. So learn from all situations.
15:48 Amanda: I absolutely agree with that whole-heartedly.
15:51 Jarred: I think if I didn't have the support of upper management in different spaces that weren't even in that particular location, if I didn't have their support, I might not have been as confident to take the approach that I took right now. We need to kind of step our faith or step out and trust that what sounded good most likely is good. I needed to hear that comforting support. So I don't understate that by any means because I know it helps me still to this day, is support. Support is important.
16:23 Amanda: Absolutely. I don't think that you get anywhere in the corporate world without support.
16:28 Jarred: Anywhere in the world, really. You should have a champion in each and every thing that you do.
16:34 Amanda: I agree. Absolutely.
16:37 Jarred: Someone who understands your core values, understands you beyond the nice little cards and cut-outs that they give for every generation and every personality. Somebody who really gets you, and that takes time to build. I think a lot of times people don't take the time to build.
16:55 Amanda: I agree. I agree. I think that we sometimes rely too heavily on technology and what it gives to us, but it takes away that human-to-human connection. And we're hard-wired for that. And we need it, and we crave it, and it's... Yeah.
17:11 Jarred: Yeah, I know. Just the other day... I don't think they will see this, anyway, but it was on a group meet where someone's suggesting that they use LinkedIn to find mentors, which I think is smart. But they find their mentor and then say something along the things of, "Be my mentor." How many times has this person seen that? How is what you're doing standing out in a real connection? LinkedIn is an aid. It's not the replacement. So you should be leveraging. "Can we meet for coffee?" And pay for it like a responsible adult and earn the time, earn the face time in front of someone. I think sometimes we just think, "I pinged you. I messaged you. So now we have a relationship." Uh-uh.
[laughter]
18:02 Jarred: That doesn't work in people's dating lives, so why would that work here?
18:08 Amanda: Oh, Jarred, we're gonna be friends, I can just tell.
[laughter]
18:13 Jarred: I look forward to it, Amanda.
[laughter]
18:19 Amanda: Alright. Now you have an interesting educational background. You want to Florida A&M, but then...
18:25 Jarred: AMU. Just had to do that, real quick.
[laughter]
18:28 Amanda: Then we... Not we, you went Shanghai University for your graduate. Did you have any of these preconceived ideas about what work or the working world was gonna be like before you left the confines of the classroom? And what were the differences between the idealized version from college and the reality version?
18:57 Jarred: So I felt like I'm pretty good on paper. I'm a masterful communicator in terms of casual conversation, so then by natural ordained, I would become successful. No. Not at all. And I say the real world was just totally different. It's a constant show me, constant proving yourself. And that's okay, because it keeps you naturally growing. It keeps you energized to develop and push yourself to those limits. So I would say that that was... I thought corporate... I thought I could charm corporate America and, naw!
[laughter]
19:38 Amanda: Naw!
19:39 Jarred: And the funny thing is, if I saw myself now, I would either pull myself to the side or totally disregard the person, 'cause I know what that's like now. So it's like, "No. It's too much fluff and probably not enough substance or something," which wasn't the case, but if you're not cognizant of the those things that you give off, it can impact you in how people feel about you. So I would say that that was it, for me at least. I thought you could charm corporate America and charm yourself into a situation. You say, "Oh, I'm smart, so then people will give me jobs and give me promotions." No, no. You got to work, man. There's no substitute.
20:22 Amanda: It doesn't work that way? Man!
20:25 Jarred: At least not in my world.
[laughter]
20:28 Jarred: Well, I don't know if that's working for you, Amanda. By all means, give us the code? What's the key code?
20:32 Amanda: It did not work that way. It did not work that way at all.
[laughter]
20:37 Amanda: So you've been at a couple of different companies throughout your career and had some different positions. Is there been a boss or a mentor, or maybe through the Emerging 100 program... I know that you guys do some mentoring there. Is there anything that they have done that has helped you stay mentally engaged at work, and productive at work?
21:00 Jarred: Yeah, the brothers that I work with, Emerging 100 Houston, are just as accomplished if not more, in really good stages of the their lives, and the fact that they keep grinding makes me wanna grind, so the fact that they work hard. I see them working hard. I'm like, "Oh, I'm sleeping through lunch. I need to work." So it's just different things like that, that competitive juices and competitive nature, and then as far as boss, two people who really stick out to me, TaKeisha Rayson, who was my long-term director prior to me coming to this new firm. And then the current firm that I'm at, the guy who brought me in. His name is William Mouton. Ooh, he's gonna hurt me.
21:49 Amanda: Yes he is.
21:49 Jarred: William Mouten, William Mouten, who I found in my organization. He's a part of the older version of the organization, and just feeling comfort around finding someone who knew OCM work, organizational change management. Who knew OCM work, was familiar with a lot of the hurdles that I had encountered from corporate America space. Also, being from my same... What would you call it? Affinity group I think is the corporate word. But my racial background, we tend to get treated in monoliths whether it be race, gender, age, you name it, right? So to be around someone who had came out on the other side of that navigation was important. So yeah, I would say those two people are huge in terms of where I am today in the last five years.
22:45 Amanda: That's awesome. I love that, I love that. And I love that it was a... That gave you those learning experiences, and I'm sure that they pushed you sometimes when you didn't wanna be pushed. That's what bosses do.
22:57 Jarred: Yeah, absolutely. And when there are times when I see things my way, and I assume that that must be...
23:08 Amanda: The way.
23:09 Jarred: Forgive me, I'm gonna get very real. The black man, 30-year-old way of viewing it, and then when you see someone else not view it that way you go, "Wait." You say, "Am I missing the connection?" And oftentimes you are. You're missing a perspective that you don't see, and they are wonderful at giving it.
[laughter]
23:28 Jarred: They are some of the best at giving it. So yeah, those two people really stick out in my mind. I'd give them an island if I could.
23:38 Amanda: Alright. Well, if you're giving out islands...
[chuckle]
23:40 Jarred: I don't know if I say it, because we on day one now.
23:46 Amanda: Day one.
[laughter]
23:49 Jarred: Yeah. Baby crawls.
23:51 Amanda: So let me ask you this. Whether this is your current company or maybe one that you've been at in the past, is there anything about the perks or the benefits or maybe even the culture of the company or the subculture of your specific team that it's just helped you to create a sense of loyalty to the company where you're like, "Man, I got to get up. I want to do awesome by this company today"?
24:18 Jarred: It's interesting 'cause I have this conversation with my wife. And it was along the lines of if an opportunity came along and paid me X, Y, and Z, more, would I take it? And the honest answer is, "No," because this company, even in this short timeframe, has done more for my professional growth in wanting to be interested, invested in me than all the companies I've been a part of. And that's not to knock them. Some of them aren't geared or designed in that way, but it's been much more than a learning factory for me. This has been an investment in seeing me five years from now. And I immediately have seen the payback on that. So I would say that this group is really, really interested in the right answer. I've never seen a company really hone in on the right answer, not who, not where it came from, the right answer, the right solution to things.
25:22 Jarred: And so I've been really diving into that, because it's energized me to believe that the right way can win and that we don't have to enter in all these other factors that have nothing to do with the solution. So yeah. I hope I hit the nail on the head in my subgroup or my sub-project team. Absolutely amazing. Very flexible. I'm going to miss them when I no longer have the project, I'm sure. It's just extremely flexible, lighthearted. We're always joking with each other. There's a huge social connection that we share, and I think it helps us get each other's back. Alright? So, it's because we share those commonalities, whether it's... I mean, it's not... We're not the same background-wise by any means, but because we have those social interactions and joke and we do all these other different things, it makes extra work on a Sunday easier. Makes extra work on a Saturday easier. So I would say those are the things that stick out to me at least.
26:33 Amanda: Okay. So I just wanna clear this one, and I just wanna hone in on it for just a second...
26:40 Jarred: No problem.
26:41 Amanda: On that last thing on the subculture of your particular team. You actually mean the human-to-human connection that you have with these people. Correct?
26:52 Jarred: Yeah. Yeah, there's no other way to explain it. Doesn't necessarily always come through the medium of physically being in front of each other. Sometimes it's...
27:06 Amanda: Of course. Not possible. Not possible. Yeah.
27:06 Jarred: Through Skype and joking in that manner. But there's definitely a human aspect, right, that is not relegated to emoticons and memes and GIFs. It's just genuine conversation with two human beings with similar interests.
27:23 Amanda: Two human beings being human beings together. I love it. [laughter]
27:28 Jarred: So is this your anti-social media manifesto?
27:31 Amanda: It is not. It is not. [laughter] No, no. But it's just, it's really interesting. I think that a lot of people... And millennials definitely do this, but if you go in and you notice that other generations have started tending to do this as well, is that they default a lot of times to difficult conversations, or get to know you conversations are done through technology. And I just don't think that it quite builds the same rapport and relationships with it. That's it. I love technology.
28:05 Jarred: No, I think that's fair.
28:07 Amanda: Yeah. I mean, you know. So...
28:09 Jarred: Yeah. But I think, yeah, and I think to which your point is, naturally, human beings will side with the path of least resistance.
28:18 Amanda: Of course.
28:19 Jarred: So if they have an opportunity to turn a difficult conversation into a tweet, a tweet war, then they'd rather do that than actually deal with the ramifications of impacting someone's life.
28:29 Amanda: No. I absolutely agree. And I mean, there's a whole psychological study on exactly what's going on in your brain when you can do it via technology versus face to face. I mean, there's data out there. So alright. So tell me about this. You have a pretty varied background, both professionally and in your extracurricular activities. So tell us what is it that made you stand out in the hiring process? What was it that made your boss... Well, I know that your boss knew you through Emerging 100. But what was it in maybe another role that made your boss say, "Yeah. We gotta call this Jarred guy and get him in here and interview him." What was it about it?
29:16 Jarred: Personal relationship. Personal relationship. Nothing has superseded that. Sure, once the connection is there, you're put in a certain position to where you can sell yourself. You still have to do that, but I'm 100% confident it's the personal relationship. Without question. I mean, because there are the things that come with it that are unintended consequences like I now can have a candid conversation on the dos and don'ts before I go into an interview. If a person doesn't know you, they can't really give that to you in a very comforting way. So yeah. It, literally, the personal relationship took every other aspect to the next level in terms of preparation.
30:04 Amanda: Very good. Yeah, I think that that's fantastic. So tell me a little bit about... I mean you have been through the hiring process with multiple companies. Is there anything you wish companies knew about hiring a younger employee? Is there anything that you think that they should change or anything that you think they do spectacularly well?
30:26 Jarred: Which industry am I talking to right now?
30:27 Amanda: Any industry.
30:29 Jarred: I want to tell them something. No, I'm just kidding. [laughter] What about young people... Get to the point, ask what you want to know. I think, with young people, if you go in a casual format, it's hard to switch to a very serious tone in terms of trying to extract work capabilities or work skills. So ask what you wanna know. You can definitely open with some light stuff but don't allow yourself to stay in that mode. Allow the young person to actually extract their skills and their talents and don't be so hard on things that you find comforting. So you like to do X, Y, and Z, and what you'll tend to do is then take that with you into the interview and anything contrary to that you don't like the person. But it's the contrary that builds the team. It's what they can see that you can't. And so instead of focusing or what is not the same, talk about how magnificent the differences can be, how magnifying the differences can be, what are the things you are missing that you could be adding? 'Cause if you were everything, then you wouldn't be hiring.
[laughter]
31:53 Amanda: Right.
31:55 Jarred: That's an advice to all my baby boomers out there is that you guys can be really deep into your positions, and you tend to have a larger knowledge base in your generation and so I get why you feel it's a superior conclusion to your counterparts, but still there's an opportunity to learn and don't miss out on an opportunity because someone doesn't mirror how you felt you were at 25.
32:32 Amanda: Absolutely. That is some fantastic advice, Jarred, really, really, that is some fantastic advice. And I think that you have actually given a lot of really good advice in this, what, 15-20, I don't know how long we've been on this call, but in this call, but in this very...
32:46 Jarred: Might have been motivated by these other short phone calls of tough love. [laughter] Maybe I was in that mood today, I don't know. You ask me tomorrow and I might tell you a whole different story. [laughter]
33:00 Amanda: I love it, I love it, I love it. Well, Jarred, this, like I said, has been fantastic. Would it be okay with you if I share a link to your LinkedIn profile on the show notes?
33:16 Jarred: Not at all. It's probably the only way they can even find me on social media. I don't even have most of the other mediums.
33:23 Amanda: Well... [laughter]
33:23 Jarred: I was about to name them then I thought that might be press. I don't want to give them unsolicited press.
33:30 Amanda: No, no, let's... We'll stick with LinkedIn to keep it professional, I will include that into the show notes. But otherwise this has been a fantastic interview and I want to thank Jarred Morgan for being on the show. I also want to thank the Emerging 100 of Houston for nominating him to be on the show. And of course I want to thank the audience for checking us out today. So thank you guys so much and I will see you next time. Bye.
33:57 Jarred: Thank you.
33:57 Amanda: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com, the link is below, it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 20: Millennials: Learning to Communicate Across Generations appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
The war for top talent is always going to be fierce. But while some large Fortune 500s are spending millions on recruiting millennials in all the usual places, other companies are finding top talent in unconventional places.
Danae Villarreal is an Enterprise Account Marketing at GitLab Inc. From project planning and source code management to CI/CD and monitoring, GitLab is a complete DevOps platform, delivered as a single application.
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The Transcript - The Power of Mentoring Millennials **00:05 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstar podcast. So in today's episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast, we're gonna hear from Danae Villarreal who's with 511 Enterprises, and Danae shares with us all about the power of mentoring and how one mentor actually found her when she was at her worst early on in her career and how he really has poured into her, and has changed not only the trajectory of her career path, but also the trajectory of her life. So listen in and see what Danae has to share.
00:39 Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Welcome to the show today. I have a really fascinating rockstar with me today. Today's rockstar is Danae Villarreal. Danae, welcome to the show.
[chuckle]
00:55 Danae Villarreal: Thank you, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
01:00 Amanda Hammett: I'm super excited to talk to you. So Danae, tell us a little bit about you.
01:04 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, grew up in Washington, moved to Northern California when I was like 23, did the whole higher education thing. I've been working in sales development for the last year and a half, and I recently started a data analytics program in the San Francisco Bay Area.
01:25 Amanda Hammett: Very cool, very cool. Alright. So I happen to meet your direct boss, I don't know, months ago, at a conference, and he was telling me about the philosophy at your company and all that good stuff, and about his personal hiring philosophy, and so I knew that he was like good people. So I was like, "Oh, do you have any rockstars? And he immediately told me a little bit about you. He didn't tell me your name, that would come later. So, tell us why does your boss, Joe Odell, why does he consider you to be a rockstar?
02:01 Danae Villarreal: That's a great question. [laughter] This is a long story, I hope you're ready.
02:07 Amanda Hammett: I'm ready.
02:10 Danae Villarreal: It was a year and a half ago, a little over a year and a half ago, I was working a pizza job, [chuckle] and kinda went through like a quarter life crisis so I was like not sure what I wanted to do, and that crisis ended up in me getting fired at the pizza job. I spent three months on the couch, trying to figure out what I was gonna do, putting in countless applications, and did everything I could to prepare myself for interviews and everything.
02:41 Danae Villarreal: And just like randomly happened upon a job opening for 511 Enterprises, and I was really not sure of it at first. But I go in for a job shadow, and I meet Joe Odell, and his first reaction to me was, "I looked at your LinkedIn, and I noticed that you have roller derby on there. Is that something you do?" And then I was like, "Yeah," [chuckle] but interview turned into me, inviting him out to my game the following weekend. [chuckle] The thing about roller derby is you can invite people all the time, but most of the time people don't show, and Joe shows up with his whole family that weekend.
03:25 Amanda Hammett: I've met him.
03:25 Danae Villarreal: And I was so impressed. [chuckle] I knew that even if I didn't know exactly if I had what it took to do the whole sales thing, I knew that Joe was someone that I wanted to learn from, and I have been ever since. It's been a year and a half of his mentorship, and it's just completely changed the trajectory of my life. He has championed me like no one else has before. And so, what went for me was a pizza delivery gig. I'm pursuing my dreams because he saw me, and he saw something in me, and believed in me, and has not stopped fighting for me since that day.
04:14 Amanda Hammett: That's an awesome story, and I can totally see him doing all of those things. [laughter] He's just that kind of person.
04:24 Danae Villarreal: Totally.
04:26 Amanda Hammett: So tell us a little bit, I mean, I know that you mentioned you got fired from your pizza job, but tell us a little bit about, in your current role, 'cause you're in a sales development role at 511, tell us a little bit about what has worked for you in your career path and growing, as you have.
04:47 Danae Villarreal: Yeah. So I think that, I personally, I'm in the belief that sales development is probably one of the hardest jobs that is out there.
04:58 Amanda Hammett: I'm out there with you.
[laughter]
05:00 Danae Villarreal: Like we're dealing with rejection every single day, multiple times a day. People hanging up on us, whatever. And I think that for me, the biggest part of my success in the last year and a half has been intentionally pursuing emotional health, choosing to not place my identity completely in the role, like whether or not someone says no to me, and just brushing it off and moving on to the next person and consistently practicing resilience because it's such a practice. Like it's not something that we just have innately within us. Maybe a little bit, but in sales, like you gotta be in that mindset. And so, yeah, I think that that for me has been like the biggest thing, making sure that I'm taking care of myself and just like my, yeah, like my mental attitude in keeping that on board, you know.
06:02 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely, I mean, well there's... And with that resilience there's also a certain level of mental toughness that you've had to develop. And I know that you mentioned taking care of yourself from an emotional level, and that is something that actually Joe and I discussed, is just those roles that you're in, and it's just hard on anybody. And so to make it, and to be successful, you've gotta have those things. So, good for you. Very good for you!
06:30 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, thank you! Yeah...
06:31 Amanda Hammett: No...
06:31 Danae Villarreal: Joe... Also... Sorry...
06:33 Amanda Hammett: Oh, no, please.
06:34 Danae Villarreal: Also has been super helpful for me in that because when I started, I didn't know what I was doing. He has so very graciously led me along the path of asking good questions. And making me actually ask myself like, "What? Like why do I feel so tied to this right now? Am I still gonna be okay if this deal falls through? Am I still gonna be okay and not letting the roller coaster of the sales cycle dictate the way that I feel about who I am or where I'm going? So...
07:09 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Very cool, very cool. So is there anything in this particular job or maybe in a past job that has not worked for you?
07:23 Danae Villarreal: Anything that has not worked for me?
07:25 Amanda Hammett: Mm-hmm.
07:27 Danae Villarreal: Oh, that's a great question. I think that... Like no matter the product or whatever, I've had like... The nature of my business is I've had multiple clients over the last year and half. And so, it's rapidly changing and stuff. But I think that as long as I stay tied to the why. The why of like making people's lives better. No matter what the product is. If I am bringing the value and saying, "Hey, I can make this easier for you. I can take away your headaches, whatever." I think that that has been something that I've needed. And to go back to the question that what hasn't worked for me, has been like getting caught up in the small hiccups that happen within the sales process.
[laughter]
08:27 Danae Villarreal: And like, you know like, it's administrative nightmare sometimes. And so, just really keeping my cool and just remembering why, has been something that, like I've realized that that's something I need on the day-to-day.
08:42 Amanda Hammett: It is, and not just in business, I think. You know?
08:45 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, right.
08:47 Amanda Hammett: So in those times when you feel in your current role where you're stumbling, or you've hit like a roadblock or something like that. What's really helped you through that?
[laughter]
09:03 Danae Villarreal: We're gonna bring back to Joe. [laughter]
[laughter]
09:06 Amanda Hammett: Is this like a long Joe commercial? Is this... [laughter]
09:11 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, this is, this is... [laughter] I've approved this message for Joe Odell. No. I think that mentorship, that has been one of the biggest things is, find people that can tell you what is true about you. No matter where you're at in life, we're all gonna hit those hard times or whatever, those stress, whatever. It's so easy to get caught up in lives. But having people around you that can remind you of who you are and why you're doing what you're doing, and to just kind of reset your baselines, that for me has been one of the biggest things. It was even yesterday. I was like, I had like a thousand things on my plate and I was like, had even a moment where I'm like, I feel like I can't get anything done to the level of excellence I want or whatever. And so I just, I called Joe, and I was like, "Hey, these are the thousand things that are happening right now. Like help."
[laughter]
10:09 Danae Villarreal: And he kinda just like he didn't give me the answers like I kinda wanted him to, but he was like... He just did that thing where he's asking good questions, and like, "What are your priorities right now? Remember who you are!" And just gave me that thing where I could be like, "Okay, reset, breathe, start over again." So that's been just... I don't know, I love having mentorship in my life, so...
10:42 Amanda Hammett: Awesome. That's really a... Yeah, a fantastic mentor is always a game changer and a life changer really. So...
10:50 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, seriously.
10:50 Amanda Hammett: Yeah, good for you. Okay, so... You mentioned a little reality check early on in the interview, but you also mentioned a couple of other things. I'd like to circle back to them if you don't mind.
11:08 Danae Villarreal: Mm-hmm.
11:10 Amanda Hammett: And you didn't specifically lay this out, but you... I do know this about you, is that you left college. Tell us a little bit about that.
11:20 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, totally. [chuckle] So I went to college and studied music when I was... I feel like I was young. It's been five years since I left. And when I started, I had all of these ideas about how I was gonna maybe pursue a career in music. And my thought process was, "I'm gonna go learn all of the basics, and then I'm gonna be a rockstar somewhere." Which is hilarious that I'm now in this podcast, but I was thinking a musical rockstar.
[laughter]
11:58 Amanda Hammett: But you are a rockstar!
[laughter]
12:01 Danae Villarreal: Different kind, different kind. [chuckle] And so, I just realized, one, it was naive for me to pursue that particular educational path because it wasn't gonna really get me to where I wanted to be, and then, two, was even if I finish this thing, I don't wanna be a music teacher, I don't wanna be an opera singer, and so I moved on from there and I moved to Northern California where I really did a lot of soul-searching, and I went to a theology school to really explore my spirituality and what I believed about life, and I learned so much about myself. And, yeah, all along that was where I'm working in restaurants, and I'm delivering pizzas and stuff. And so ultimately I'm grateful for everything that I've done because it's gotten me to where I am today. But had I had the choice, maybe I wouldn't have taken out those student loans.
13:14 Amanda Hammett: Oh, those student loans. Yes, yes, yes. Alright, so we've talked a little bit about Joe, just a little bit. [laughter] But I know that there are some other bosses or coworkers that you work with on a very regular day-to-day basis over at 511. Is there anything that they do, besides Joe, to keep you engaged and motivated and ready to take on that next no that you're gonna inevitably hear?
13:48 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, definitely, so I honestly just... I am so honored to work for 511 because I didn't know the level of... Just like champion thing that I could feel from an employer until I started working for them. So the higher up C-level guys are so encouraging, definitely make a point to meet with us on a regular basis.
14:20 Amanda Hammett: So this is like Chad?
14:23 Danae Villarreal: Like Chad, Nicole, and Rick Sbrocca, they have met with me on multiple occasions, helping me figure out what's the next move. What are my goals for the next year? Where do I wanna be in five years? Where do I wanna end up?
14:37 Amanda Hammett: Awesome!
14:38 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, it's fantastic because even if they know that I'm not gonna end up with 511, they're still investing in me, which I'm like, that's crazy but amazing at the same time.
14:51 Amanda Hammett: It is.
[laughter]
14:55 Danae Villarreal: Gotta love those guys. So for instance, I had been with 511 for a year and I heard about this school in San Francisco called MissionU, around, I don't know, it would've been like 10 months ago, 11 months ago now. And it was a data analytics and business intelligence program. It was gonna pull me away from Redding where the offices and stuff, and I was like, "This seems kinda interesting, it seems like a path I could go down at some point. If anything, it'll enrich my career." And I just applied on a whim, and I got accepted and I found out that they only accept like, they accepted 20 of us and there was 5000 applicants or something...
15:47 Amanda Hammett: Wow!
15:48 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, so I find out, and I'm like, "Hey, Chad, I've got some news... " [laughter] And from the get-go, they were so supportive, they were like, "Yeah, we will do whatever it takes to help you make this happen. If this is the path that you wanna go down, we're gonna help you get there." So I tried to search for jobs, couldn't find anything part-time. People don't hire STRs part-time. I'm not surprised by that. But 511 was like, "Hey, you know what, we don't have remote employees, but we'll keep you on. We'll keep you covered until you get through your program." And it's just been... The level of generosity has just been out of this world. So, yeah, I'm so grateful to everyone, all of them.
16:54 Amanda Hammett: That's amazing.
16:54 Danae Villarreal: And even the other management there have been super great about connecting with me, whether it's through Slack or on phone calls and just staying in touch and keeping me, leaving me feeling like I'm still part of the team, even though I'm not in the office all the time, which is, it's just really valuable.
17:14 Amanda Hammett: That's really, really amazing. I didn't know that about you starting that program and kinda how that all went down. That's really... That's really cool, that they're supporting you in that way. I mean... That's amazing. I just don't have words for that, that's amazing.
17:34 Danae Villarreal:Yeah, yeah, it's, [laughter] it's really hard to find, you know? So it's been good.
17:43 Amanda Hammett: Yeah. I mean, when I met Joe originally, I could tell like the culture there was something that was really interesting to me, doing what I do. That's a lot of what I talk about is building that kind of culture and to see it and to see it the way it's grown organically there, has been really interesting to see from my perspective. But Joe is really nice enough to introduce me to Chad and to Rick, and just to hear them talk about it from their perspective, it's, yeah...
18:19 Danae Villarreal: Yeah...
18:20 Amanda Hammett: You're in a good, good place, [laughter] you know... In a very good place.
18:25 Danae Villarreal: I really am. [chuckle] I like, and it's like not even just the... The management is awesome and everything too. But like... When I started in the 511 like I really found... They're just good at hiring good people, you know, like...
18:44 Amanda Hammett: They are.
18:45 Danae Villarreal: We have such great culture across the board on all of the individual projects and teams. It's just like the best, the cream of the crop. [chuckle] So, anyway...
19:00 Amanda Hammett: Well, I mean and I think that their philosophy is, it's culture over skill. And I think that a lot of other companies should adopt a similar attitude, and that's what it is. Joe told me that first night that I met him, he was just like, "Absolutely, I look at culture. Are you gonna fit within our culture? Are you like, that kind of personality that we're looking for that will do well and succeed?" And he said, you had it. And that's why...
[laughter]
19:27 Amanda Hammett: You were like, "I don't know how I feel about this sales thing and everything," 'cause he knew he could teach you and he, I would imagine, is a wonderful teacher.
19:37 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, definitely.
19:38 Amanda Hammett: Awesome, that's really cool, good for you. Okay, so I'm very curious how you went from, you found this semi-interesting job posting from 511, for a sales role, which you'd never really done before. What is it that made you stand out to Joe? Like how did they pick you for this job shadowing day, how did that happen?
20:05 Danae Villarreal: I think it was the roller derby. [chuckle] To be honest, it was actually a combination of things. So it actually wasn't a job posting. It was a Facebook post that someone, like a friend of a friend had posted that like I know, and I was like... They have said that they were looking for sales people, and I was like, "Does selling pizzas count?" [chuckle] So I was at that point in my job search. And then, yeah, Joe had just said, like... He was just super impressed that I was actively involved in the roller derby league and he thought it showed a lot of grit, and I was like, "Oh, I've never thought of it like that before, that's cool." I'm so sorry...
20:52 Amanda Hammett: That's okay.
20:54 Danae Villarreal: Anyway. And then also, so when I initially had kinda shown a little bit of a hesitation like, "Hey, I need to think about this a little bit." He was like, "Okay." And so I ended up doing a mock call anyway and it was terrible, just like awful. I was so nervous and it was not good and he didn't tell me that that it was bad. And I actually like I just thought about it for a couple of days, and finally I was like, I'm just gonna call him and tell him like, I want this job because I... Like I just felt like, I just felt it. I was like, there is something about this, there is something about this that I need, like just for my life, I guess. And...
21:38 Amanda Hammett: Really?
21:39 Danae Villarreal: And so I, yeah, like I just... Just like, I could tell like you could like Joe is good people, and I was like, "I think I need that." Like I need that more but not right now. And, yeah, so I like called him, left him a voice mail. He gave me a call back, he's like, "Yeah, that voice mail was better than your mock call." So we're gonna give you a job. I was like, "perfect." [chuckle] So I think it was like the grit and like the persistence and the pursuit of it, and like actually getting vulnerable and like... I could've backed down to the fear of rejection and been like, "They'll call me," you know, but I, like very specifically was like, "No, I'm gonna... I have this dude's phone number, I'm gonna call him and I'm gonna let him know that, I think that this is a good fit," and so...
22:31 Amanda Hammett: That's really cool. That's awesome. [laughter] That he said that to you. That's terrible.
[laughter]
22:39 Amanda Hammett: So, speaking to our other companies that watch this and listen. What is it that you wish other companies knew about hiring younger employees? Because I would imagine, you said you spent three months on the couch, you said you put in countless applications, like... What do you wish that they knew? If you could speak directly to all HR people.
[chuckle]
23:00 Danae Villarreal: All the HRs... Yeah, I think... Oh, that's a great question. I probably should have thought about this a little bit more, I'm sorry. I think that like, one of the biggest things is... For me, when I'm looking for a position or when I was looking for a position, the human factor was super important to me. Like, I... I get that the applicant tracking systems are a thing, and they're super efficient and stuff, but it's like, put a recruiter name on there or give me a way to pursue the lead, like give me, like throw me a bone kind of thing, you know. But also, just like, I think that it's really important, if you are trying to attract young talent, I think these days, we all want the same thing, like we wanna be known and we want the people around us to invest in us, but we also wanna invest in the people around us.
24:17 Danae Villarreal: And so, creating that culture and making sure that that's a new place and just making people know that it's available, and it's not just like... I don't think I could ever go to a job and just like clock in and clock out and that would be it.
24:37 Amanda Hammett: Right.
24:37 Danae Villarreal: I do not go for, you know. Life is too short to not connect with people. And so I think that all of those things combined. Like human connection is like where it's at.
24:52 Amanda Hammett: It is. You're absolutely correct.
24:54 Danae Villarreal: And it covers a multiple of sin, like multiple sins, you know, whatever. [laughter] So, yeah.
25:00 Amanda Hammett: Very cool, very cool. I love that. Yeah, no, I could not, could not agree with you more on that one in particular. Okay, fantastic. So I'm gonna put, if you don't mind, I'm gonna put your LinkedIn profile in the show notes, if anybody wants to connect with you. I will have that in there for them to do so. I hope that's okay.
25:21 Danae Villarreal: Yeah, that's great. I love connections.
25:25 Amanda Hammett: But, do what?
25:27 Danae Villarreal: I love connections though...
25:29 Amanda Hammett: Fantastic!
25:29 Danae Villarreal: Even if it's LinkedIn. [laughter]
25:32 Amanda Hammett: There you go, there you go. Well, thank you so much, Danae, for being on the show and thank you, you guys, for watching and we will see you in the next episode.
25:41 Danae Villarreal: Thank you.
25:42 Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below, it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free Millennial Employee Engagement Guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis, because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 19: The Power of Mentoring Millennials appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Bridging the Generational Gap can be tricky under any circumstance, but is especially tricky in the workplace. In order to successfully bridge the generational gap the key to success is to effectively communicate across all generations in order to find common goals and interests.
Mark Owens is a President & CEO at Winston Salem Chamber of Commerce. Greater Winston-Salem Chamber of Commerce is to provide and advocate for the best environment for businesses of all sizes– because when businesses succeed, the community thrives. The Chamber represents nearly 1,200 businesses and organizations, convening the community to work together, create together, learn together, and grow together.
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The Transcript - Millennials: Bridging the Generational Gap **00:05 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast. So in today's episode of the Millennial Rockstar's podcast, we are learning from Mark Owens, who is the President and CEO of the Chamber of Commerce in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. And Mark has some fantastic takeaways that I hope you take some notes on. The biggest one for me was about breaking down the perceptions around the millennial generation. And of course, talking across all generations. Tune in and listen to what Mark has to say.
00:34 Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett. I'm known as the millennial translator® because I help companies attract, retain, and engage rockstar millennial talent. And today's rockstar is Mark Owens. Mark, welcome to the show.
00:47 Mark Owens: Thank you so much for having me Amanda, happy to be here.
00:50 Amanda Hammett: Awesome, awesome. So Mark, why don't you tell the rockstar audience a little bit about you, what makes you a rockstar?
00:58 Mark Owens: Wow, yeah, thank you for that. It's a humble term to use; I appreciate that. 33-year-old CEO of the Chamber of Commerce here in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Born and raised in Charleston, South Carolina and went to Presbyterian College where I interned at a Chamber of Commerce. Never knew what that was until I interned there and here I am couple, a little while after that, in a CEO role of my second Chamber. So it opened a lot of doors and has been a great experience. So my wife and I have a 10 month old, just moved here seven months ago and really are enjoying it. And I don't know really what you would say definitely defines me as a rockstar other than other people thinking that which is very, very, very nice to know, but hopefully, we can change the perception of what a millennial is in the work place, a little.
01:49 Amanda Hammett: That is awesome, and yes let's hope that that's what happens, what comes out of this podcast. But actually, so you were nominated to be on the show by a corporate member of the Chamber, of your local Chamber. Someone from, I'll just go ahead and say someone from John Deere actually nominated you. She thought very highly of you and what you're doing there, so there you go.
02:13 Mark Owens: Thank you, they've been great to get to know and going through some leadership programs with her, and they've been great so that was an honor to be nominated.
02:21 Amanda Hammett: Well very good, very good. So you kinda alluded to this, so let's just dive right in. Tell us a little bit about your career path, and what has worked for you? What has helped you move the needle from intern at a Chamber of Commerce to CEO of a Chamber of Commerce?
02:37 Mark Owens: Yeah, it's been a blessing to be able to go on this ride. As an intern, got to know some people, really wanted to just break down the idea of specifically, when you enter a room to be able to go without any fear and go meet people, but do it in a genuine way. So started as an intern, then in 2008, went into an entry level role in the Greater Greer South Carolina Chamber. Greer's better known as the Home of BMW, North America, as a Director for programs and events. Few years later Director of Business Development, into the VP role, and then eventually the President/CEO role of the Chamber there. And I think really what has been something that's been able to maybe have some success for me is the ability to bridge the gap between generations. I think, really an important factor is being able to know people, communicate with people from all different backgrounds, but in this conversation, generation, specifically. Be able to sit down with members in their 70's of our Chamber and the members in their 20's and find some commonalities. In the Chamber world, everybody has a little bit of that greater good for the business community aspect, and I think that's a part of what millennials like, is being able to get involved and make a difference. And so, really all generations wanna do that, it's just, there's a little possessiveness about their age categories. So we gotta break down some of those walls and build bridges instead, I think.
04:09 Amanda Hammett: I love that. I love the way that you just put that. So, your career trajectory so far has just been, it seems to have been very linear actually, which is sometimes not something that we see a lot of in the millennial generation. But, and things have obviously worked well for you so far. But have there been stumbling blocks along the way?
04:33 Mark Owens: Yeah, of course. It's definitely more linear than the traditional definition is it's just linear. We hated to leave a great community in Greer, in the fall coming to a bigger city in Winston-Salem, a wonderful place that we're thrilled to call home now. But along the way there's been times where I didn't know if this is what I wanted to do. I looked at other opportunities, do I wanna change careers all together? But there's always people, mentors or somebody, and it maybe wasn't even that direct, that maybe a small business, a florist for example, that says, "Hey, you really helped me go from being a home-based business to a brick and mortar with three employees. And what you did in this connection made that difference." And as soon as that gas tank started to dwindle, there's some big story, some situation like that, that fills you back up and recharges you. And so, I would say those have been some of the areas that have been kinda challenging. Also just breaking the perception when I'm interviewing as the youngest person on paper. Sometimes there's a minimum amount of experience needed and I didn't always hit that, but that didn't stop me from trying to go for it. I always thought if I could get in front of somebody, I could show who I really was and what the vision looked like. So, I think those have been some stumbling blocks.
05:58 Mark Owens: I interviewed for the CEO role once in Greer and didn't get it when I wasn't really ready. But I knew that if I didn't go for it, what kind of message was I sending for my future there? And so, the second time it came available, was when I was hired into the CEO role. So, I think that was a story that really challenged me to say, "You know what, I know I may not be ready now, but I gotta show that this is what I want. So, sometimes I tend to be more bold in interviews than any other time, so I guess that came out a little bit.
[laughter]
06:33 Amanda Hammett: I love it. Well, let's hope that you continue that on here today.
06:37 Mark Owens: Okay, perfect.
06:39 Amanda Hammett: So, you kinda mentioned this, but I do wanna take this opportunity to really pull that out. You mentioned having some mentors that have helped you through some of those stumbling blocks earlier on in your career. Can you give us some specific examples about, maybe some advice that these mentors shared with you?
06:58 Mark Owens: Yeah, there's one who has been kinda that retired executive community leader.
07:04 Amanda Hammett: Right.
07:05 Mark Owens: Brought me over to his house, out of an office setting and just was playing pool. And just having a conversation about especially working with a lot of different kind of companies in whatever business people are in. People want things out of you or expect things out of you. He said, what really stuck with me was, "If you know what the person's interest is you're working with, you can read into what they're expecting is the outcome and you can help manage that relationship better." And to know that not everybody wants the same thing, or expects the same thing. So he really taught me that, to treat each interaction and each relationship a little differently and manage those expectations to say, "You don't have to be the same thing to everybody. Some people want you to do this, or some people would love for you to do this." And that was something that's really stuck to me.
08:00 Mark Owens: So every time I get to meet new companies or new people, I kinda say, "What are they looking for? How can I help?" and not try to be a little bit of everything to them, but a lot of something to them and make those connection specifically. So, that was definitely one of those mentor opportunities. The other was just having peers that are on that path, that can sharpen each other and can share that day, where you are the youngest person in the board room, and you don't get the respect or the opportunity to talk maybe, as you thought or your voice wasn't heard, that somebody else is going through that in another community or another job or another setting, and you can bounce those off. So I think there's the mentors that are gone through what we're going through. But I think you can also have mentors that are your peers in a way. That can shape that perception going forward for how you wanna do and handle your business.
08:54 Amanda Hammett: I agree. I think that those are both really fantastic examples. But specifically with your mentor and what he said to you over pool, I think that, that's valuable not only just as a community leader, but actually as a leader within your own office, and managing people, because those tend to make the best leaders. Those are the ones that you remember, those are the ones that help you build your career. And so you're right now helping build other people's careers.
09:21 Mark Owens: Yeah, that's a great point. As a former intern, I was given opportunities to grow, right? And so my biggest thing is to try to give everybody the opportunity. My leadership thought for every week is, "Can I challenge everybody in our office, but can I also make sure they have the tools to be successful and meet those challenges?" And the third is, "Will they feel fulfilled when they leave on Friday afternoon?" If I'm not doing those three things, then I don't think I've been a good leader of the organization or our team. So, everybody has a different motivation. It could be an extra paycheck, it could be an extra day off, it could just be a thank you. Instead of trying to make that across the board, I think what you referenced from my mentor was not just on the business side, but in a leadership role. Knowing what each person needs or what their thoughts are on how to be rewarded and trying to make that happen as best you can, individually.
10:19 Amanda Hammett: I agree. I agree whole-heartedly on all of that. That is fantastic. And what you have laid out for yourself every week for your team, that's a tall order.
10:32 Mark Owens: It really is.
10:34 Amanda Hammett: It really is.
10:36 Mark Owens: It is. I'm not successful every week. And that's okay, but it's good to be challenged. I think if you're not being challenged, then you're not reaching your full potential and people wanna be challenged. But make those challenges unique to each individual so the expectations are the same, but it's really my job to make sure they are successful. And sometimes I'm successful at that and sometimes it takes a couple of weeks. [chuckle] So, the fulfilling part is a little bit easier. We make sure each of our staff members have two hours a week to volunteer in the community wherever they'd like to. Our chamber is really involved in reading to first and second graders to help get our grade level reading up in our community. So that's where for most of our people spend their time; some work for habitat. But that's part of the overall concept of just being fulfilled and millennials want to be involved in the community and a lot of people, I think, feel that millennials aren't as committed or they don't check in at 7:00 and check out at 6:00. There's different needs and aspirations, so we try to give that opportunity to everybody.
11:48 Amanda Hammett: I love that. I love it; I love it. Especially the commitment to two hours a week, that is, that is amazing. I'd love to do that myself.
11:57 Mark Owens: Yeah, it's good.
11:58 Amanda Hammett: So, tell me Mark, a little bit about whether it's where you are now, or where you've been in the past, or even about maybe when you were an intern all those years ago.
12:08 Mark Owens: Yeah.
12:10 Amanda Hammett: Tell me a little bit about, was there anything that, besides the mentor that you've already mentioned, was there anything that a mentor or a boss in particular did for you or gave you that really kept you engaged and motivated, and wanting to wake up every day and serve your community?
12:32 Mark Owens: Yeah, it's happened so many times; I don't know if I can tell you all of them. It's not just been great bosses; it's been community leaders that will invite me to do something or really just give me a little bit of motivation. As a starting out as a 20-year-old, as an intern in college, there's no need for these major companies to really interact with me necessarily, like for a need right then. But they knew that they were investing in the next generation. I think that's something that really stuck with me. So, there are motivations along the way, there were times when my tank was emptying and our boss would say, "Alright, great, you've got the microphone at the next events to give me experience speaking in front of crowds and getting over that hump for professional development," or "Hey, I want you to take my seat on this board instead of me because you need to learn how to do that."
13:27 Mark Owens: Those are opportunities that bosses or other members could have been possessive of their roles and their resume building board credentials. But instead, they saw an opportunity for me to be challenged and step out of a comfort zone and start to create a resume on my own that was able to make a difference at the same time. So, there's been a ton of opportunities to do that and options to get involved, but what I really take away from it all is, there's those really direct times like I just mentioned. There were so many days where a board member of a company may just send an email and say, "I heard you were doing this out in the community, great job, keep it up." And that private message, or that private hand-written note means as much, if not more than the public recognition without a doubt. I mean that, those are the things that I try to write forth notes to people in the community every week. Just something to send out, "Congratulations, saw your name in the paper, heard you're doing this" Just to people I have... Some of them I've never even met, but I think it's just a good way to spread that encouragement around.
14:43 Amanda Hammett: That's amazing. I love it. So, can I ask a very specific question?
14:48 Mark Owens: Yes.
14:48 Amanda Hammett: When you were getting those opportunities to build your own resume from other board members or whomever, were those opportunities you were asking for, or were they seeing some potential in you, and saying, "Hey why don't you take this, you might stumble a little bit, but run with it?"
15:06 Mark Owens: You know, it's probably a little bit of both, but like I told you, what earlier, I tend to be a little more bold in interviews for some reason than I am normally. And, I think there was a time where I mentioned to you that I didn't get the CEO role the first time I applied. And my boss that came in, I sat down with him, he says, "Okay what are your goals?" And I said, "I wanna sit where you're sitting, and I wanna be in your role." It doesn't mean I want you not to succeed, my goal is to help you and our organization succeed, but my goal is to sit in that seat when that times come and you've moved on. So, I think setting that tone of what my goals were, like I am on your team. I am 100% behind this organization, but this is where I wanna be, I think laid out the goals. But I was also you know, something that just being general here, millennials wanna get to the top really fast. It's not that you have to buy your time, you have to show your plan, but you have to be willing to work for it. And that timeline can shrink if you really are committed and working hard for that and show that. So, there definitely were times where I was thrown out there and I stumbled a little bit or I wish I could have paused and restarted the presentation.
16:20 Amanda Hammett: Right.
16:20 Mark Owens: But you learn from those, and as long your audience knows that it's not always gonna be perfect, whatever that group you're talking to is. So you learn from it, and it's built a lot of comfortability over time.
16:31 Amanda Hammett: Excellent, that's fantastic advice. So you mentioned one thing that is a perk, so to speak, in your current office, the two hours a week to volunteer wherever you want in the community. Are there any other things that your current employer, so the Chamber of Commerce in Winston-Salem, or maybe in the past that they've given you, whether it's perks, specific perks or benefits, or anything like that, that have really kept you engaged and kept you thinking, "Yeah, this is the place for me; they care about me."
17:03 Mark Owens: Yeah, this isn't in the handbook or any perk like that. But my second round of interviews was supposed to be, we went home from the hospital with our first child on a Friday night.
17:16 Amanda Hammett: Okay.
17:16 Mark Owens: It was to be in Monday morning. And I called and I said, look I need to be home with my family. And they said "Look, why don't we talk again in three weeks? Your family is the most important."
17:26 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome.
17:27 Mark Owens: Last night I was in an event 'til 11 o'clock for work, and I don't wanna miss out seeing my son at one point of the day. So I didn't get to see him much last night, so I came in a little later this morning after getting to feed him his bottle this morning. So our community is committed to family, and you come in fulfilled and wanting to make a difference and really work hard for an organization that understands that. And so, one of the perks I would say is just the flexibility to work in a flexible way to get it done. But that doesn't always mean you literally punch a clock in and out. These days we can pop up a laptop or do it on your phone or iPad or whatever, anywhere we are. So I'm up at with the little one at 6:00 in the morning doing emails, and then I take a break for a little while. So it's just... That's been really great. I think that's been something that keeps you engaged and doesn't make you feel like you're locked in, but you feel like you have the trust and the flexibility needed to be a great husband, father, and employee of the organization, at the same time.
18:36 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome that they gave you that flexibility to spend those first few weeks with your family without making you feel like you were actually missing out on an opportunity with your career. That can be a really tough choice for a lot of people to make. Do I make this sacrifice for my career or do I make this sacrifice for my family? And I'm glad that they gave you; they took that off the table.
19:00 Mark Owens: Yeah, and I can tell you that was the point where I said I'm really interested, to that's where we need to be. And it was probably the best selling point they ever could have for the community was just showing what they truly cared about. And you know you're going to a board that cares about your family. There's a lot of meaning behind that. So you feel like you're really on the same page and you're doing stuff together, instead of just being an employee; you feel like you're working together. So it was really important for us and it's important for my wife and to know what kinda community we're moving to at the same time.
19:38 Amanda Hammett: Yeah, now so a lot of times when I go in and I talk to organizations, they have these values on the wall, but my question is always, "Well, how do you operationalize that? How do you show that? How do you act that out?" And that is always a perplexing question for people. But they did that for you.
19:55 Mark Owens: They did; they showed it. And it's more than just written on the wall. And so my job is to also make sure that that's translated to our staff here. And then it's really translated... We've 1200 businesses that are members of the Chamber, and we try to instill those values to our members any way we can. And there's so many ways that can happen, and you just have to be flexible. I think if we always are stuck to the letter of the paper and policy then you don't have that human element in there. So we try to find ways to... Our thing is we always try to find a way to say yes. It may be a no to the question being asked, but we'll say yes in a different way. So we just try to make sure it's a place that people feel that they're fulfilled like we talked about.
20:39 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. I love it; I love it. So, okay, is there anything that you wish that companies knew when you were just getting your career started from that intern role to that first next step up, is there anything that you wish the companies and organizations knew about hiring young employees?
20:58 Mark Owens: Yeah, that is... Man that's a great question. That is something that we... I talk about all the time. And I talk about trying when I talk to young people coming out of college or school or I'd say, "Let's try to go break the perception." What I would love for companies to hear is that just because a generation, they work differently doesn't mean that they're not as committed. I think that's the biggest single take away is that, well you can be very committed, very passionate, really wanna make a difference. You just may do it a little differently. One of the things I always run into very small, I take notes on my phone that go right back to my computer, but people think you're texting in a meeting.
21:43 Mark Owens: And you have these scenarios, so sometimes I know I need to take a pen and paper to make sure people don't have a perception, but I think there's also that element of saying, younger people, millennials whatever generation we're talking about, as long as they can have their voice heard. My biggest pet peeve is when an organization says, "We wanna engage a millennial generation or a younger crowd so we're gonna create a sub-committee and put them over in this room." You have to allow individuals a seat at the table to learn, be able to have their voice heard so that they stay engaged, not, "They're gonna create another organization over on the side in our world, and we gotta make sure that that separation doesn't happen." So I would just say, if a company is listening to this, "Just because it's done differently, doesn't mean it's not as good of quality, or as committed to the task."
22:41 Amanda Hammett: I love that; I love it. And you basically say everything that I always say to companies as well. [chuckle] So I love it.
22:47 Mark Owens: They should listen to you. Yeah. Right.
22:50 Amanda Hammett: I agree wholeheartedly. Alright. Well, Mark Owens this has been a really fantastic conversation, and I love your take on everything and I love where you are and where you're moving your entire community of leaders to, that is fantastic. And I think that they made the right choice picking you over there at Winston-Salem.
23:09 Mark Owens: Oh, thank you.
23:10 Amanda Hammett: So if it's okay with you, would it be okay... Oh my gosh, I'm stumbling today. If it's okay with you, could the audience reach out to you on LinkedIn?
23:19 Mark Owens: Yeah, absolutely, would love to connect on LinkedIn. Also, we do some Twitter stuff as well, so I'd love to have either of those platforms, it'd be great to connect. One thing that I know is I always have people making connections for me and giving me time when I was an intern or whatever, so that is a big passion of mine, is finding ways to connect, to give back, but also just to make connections. You never know how you can help and make friendships in this world. We can have digital friendships all over the place, so it's a great thing to do, so I'd love to connect with anybody possible.
23:54 Amanda Hammett: Awesome, well, I will make sure that that happens in the show notes here, and thank you guys for joining us and, of course, thank Mark today from the Winston-Salem Chamber of Commerce. And we will see you guys in the very next episode.
24:07 Mark Owens: Thank you. Thanks Amanda.
24:08 Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstars Podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below it's amandahammett.com, there you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 18: Millennials: Bridging the Generational Gap appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Company culture is a buzzword that is tossed around constantly especially where millennials are concerned. However, creating a culture that attracts and retains millennials is a lot harder than you may think.
Forest Shoults is an Outside Sales Representative at EJ (Promoted). EJ is a company based in East Jordan, Michigan. The company is a manufacturer and distributor of iron construction castings and infrastructure access products worldwide. In 2007 the company was awarded the National Utility Contractors Association Associate of the year award.
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The Transcript - Attracting Millennials with Company Culture **00:05 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast.
00:09 AH: Alright, so today's rockstar is Forest Shoults. Forest works for a company called EJ, which is a family-owned company that you probably have never heard of, but you definitely have benefited from their products, because they create those manhole covers that are so important in city infrastructure, along with a bunch of other things that you definitely need when building a city. So as I mentioned, EJ is a family-owned company, and Forest actually shares with us a pretty funny story about when he was initially interviewing for his job at EJ and how that family culture that they have permeates through all of their employees and was very pivotal to him taking that role. So tune in and check out what Forest has to share.
00:54 AH: Hey there, and welcome to this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Today, we have a very special and young rockstar. We have Forest Shoults. Forest, welcome to the show.
01:06 Forest Shoults: Howdy.
01:08 AH: So Forest, you were nominated. I actually spoke at a conference in Houston, and you were nominated by one of the attendees that I was speaking to from your company. And he was like, "Oh my gosh, I have the perfect person that you need to speak with," and of course, that was you. So tell us a little bit about you, Forest.
01:27 FS: Oh man. Well, man, I am young. I guess you could say as far as in my workplace, I think I am the youngest that I've met so far within the company. We went to a sales meeting back in February, and at the time I was 25, and there was a 10-year margin between me and everyone else, so I was like, "Oh my gosh. What have I gotten into? Much older people around me." But no, I guess a little bit on the personal side, I'm 26 years old now. I was born in Texas, in East Texas, and since then, I have moved I think 13 different times.
02:12 AH: Oh wow!
02:13 FS: So I've lived in multiple different states. I've actually lived in Mexico. When I graduated high school, my dad got the call to go to Mexico to be a missionary, and I had a choice to make whether I was gonna go to college immediately after high school, or whether I was gonna go to Mexico and maybe take a year off to do some non-profit work down there, so I decided to take the plunge and moved to Mexico. I didn't speak any Spanish at all. I walked in there like a clueless gringo. But [chuckle] it worked out. Luckily when we got down there, we were able to connect with some teachers that ended up teaching us Spanish from the most basic kindergarten level Spanish, so I learned Spanish. I got to work with some of the most impoverished people that probably in the world while I was down there. We worked in doing water filtration systems for them down there.
03:18 AH: Oh wow.
03:19 FS: Believe it or not, I actually traveled with a mariachi group in Mexico 'cause I'm a singer, so that was something I did on the side. [chuckle] Not a lot of people pick that up whenever [laughter] I tell them.
03:37 AH: I did not see that on your LinkedIn profile.
03:39 FS: No.
[laughter]
03:40 FS: Yeah. So I was going, "Hey, no profiling. Listen, everybody can do it." But no, so I had a lot of fun while I was in Mexico. Had a lot of adventures while I was down there. It really opened me up as a person. I was, believe it or not, I was much more of a, I guess you could say introverted person, but going to Mexico kind of opened me up, and to the adventure of life, and so I really enjoyed it.
04:05 AH: That's awesome.
04:05 FS: So I kinda made a commitment to myself. I spent a year down there, and then came back to Dallas to go to school, and actually went to music school when I arrived back in Dallas, 'cause I wanted to be a music minister in church, which I have been to this day. I'm a worship pastor and I'm also a youth pastor as well. So I went there then I ended up going to Dallas Baptist University where I got my bachelor's degree in Business Administration, and I kinda cheated because I got a minor in Spanish, even though I already speak fluent Spanish. I just loved it, I wanted to go back through it again. And I worked for Apple for five years while I was in school, which was awesome, 'cause they paid for my tuition, and I got to meet a lot of really cool musicians. The guy that actually produced the song that I wrote, which you should go check out. It's on iTunes and Spotify. It's called "I Love You Back."
04:57 AH: I what?
05:00 FS: It's called, "I love you back."
05:01 AH: Okay. Alright, we'll put a link to that in the show notes for you.
05:04 FS: Awesome, awesome, thank you. I went down and I recorded it in Brazil actually, in Portuguese, and I also have a version of it in Spanish as well.
05:15 AH: Well, aren't you just a surprise.
05:19 FS: Oh man, it has been an adventure. It was fun. That was fun. It was a long process, but after I graduated school, I needed to find a job 'cause music doesn't exactly pay the best. And it can.
05:35 AH: It can.
05:36 FS: Who knows, someday I might break out, and I don't know, become a singer full-time, but for now, I got a job with a company called EJ, East Jordan Iron Works is the name of the company, and believe it or not, they've been in business for 135 years.
05:54 AH: Yes. They've been around for a little while.
05:56 FS: Yes, they know what they're doing.
05:58 AH: They do.
05:58 FS: They've been around, yeah. That's one of the things that kinda attracted me to the company, is that, how in the world could it still be running and family-owned after that long? They must be doing something right. So anyhow, so I came to work for this company and presently, I hold an outside sales representative role, where I cover all the territory from Dallas, Fort Worth, down to the Waco area, out into New Mexico. So I get to see a lot of asphalts, a lot of adventures out there on the road, but I love what I do.
06:36 AH: That's awesome. Sounds awesome.
06:37 FS: That's me, that's me in a nutshell.
06:40 AH: Forest, for those in the audience that don't know what EJ does and sells, can you tell them a little about... Just real quick, what they do or sell.
06:48 FS: Yeah, so East Jordan Iron Works initially, they started out in East Jordan, Michigan. And they cast manhole rings and covers, and as time went on, they kind of developed into... They had a broader range of castings, that they did. So they do valve boxes, valve box covers, they do fire hydrants and valves. So a lot of your infrastructure that you see that goes in before people come in and put houses in, we build a lot of that infrastructure that goes under it. So EJ actually went from being just an American company to... They're now worldwide. So they're all over the world providing infrastructure. And one thing is people are always gonna need sewer, they're always gonna need water.
07:47 AH: Absolutely, I don't think that that's going away any time soon. [laughter] Absolutely.
07:52 FS: Yeah. Lot of job stability in this business.
[laughter]
07:55 AH: Yes, very good, very good. So I know that you mentioned earlier that you've only been out of college and with EJ, for what? Two years? Is that what you said, almost two years?
08:05 FS: Yes, yes, yeah, I graduated in 2016.
08:09 AH: Okay, so, but despite that, you did have five years of work experience at Apple before you graduated from college, which... That was, I'm sure, fantastic experience. So I'm sure at this point you've discovered there are probably some things that have worked for you so far in your career. Can you tell us about one of those things that's worked for you?
08:31 FS: Yes. When I was working at Apple, it was always like this... There were two different types of people that I worked with there. And there were those that saw the position as kind of being like a monotonous, "Oh, I come in every day and I'm the guy that fixes phones and gets yelled at." And then there is the other type, that comes in and it's like, "Dang, you don't know who you're going to meet today or what's gonna happen." This guy came in one time with a computer and it had a bullet hole in it, and somebody had shot a hole through it. And I'm like, "What? Can you explain that? How did that happen?" So...
09:15 AH: I don't think that's gonna get the warranty.
09:17 FS: No, no, it was not covered under the warranty. Now, there was the one that had... There was a snake inside of a computer once. It was dead.
09:28 AH: I don't need to hear that.
09:30 FS: Yeah. That one wasn't covered either. But I think that one thing that's really helped me in my career has been to see every day as an adventure and a learning opportunity. And it's taken away from what could become a monotonous, job situation, which ultimately can become really toxic. A lot of my millennial friends fall into that mistake. And I don't wanna speak too soon about this unless you're gonna ask a question later on about this, but I was actually just mentoring a guy who's close to me, who is working kind of a job that's not really one that you would be... It's valet job and he's like, "Man, I don't have any experience and trying to get into this next position." And I told him, I was like, "Man. Every job that you could have is a gateway to another job at some point." It's a learning opportunity and it's all about how you perceive your job, and how you're gaining experience, and how you perceive what you're learning about your job. 'Cause you're gonna interact with people and that's one of the most crucial aspects of getting a job and developing in a job, anywhere.
10:44 AH: Absolutely.
10:46 FS: So that's one thing that's really worked well for me.
10:48 AH: That's really good. I think that that's a really good outlook to see on things, because you're right, every job has its times where it's a little, can be a little monotonous. And you wonder, What is this really... What is this really doing for me? But to look at it as a learning opportunity, absolutely. When I go and look at my career, I'm a little further down the career path than you are, but when I go back and I look at all of my experiences from day one to today, it's been amazing to see the past three, four, five years, how everything from the first day, has kind of magically collided into this career I now have. So it is what it is, it's a learning experience, it's a great way to look at it. Alright, so with that, having that learning experience, I would imagine that you've also discovered a few things that have not worked for you.
11:41 FS: Oh yeah.
11:42 AH: So to tell us just one of those.
11:45 FS: Okay, so on the same note of what we just talked about.
11:49 AH: Okay. [chuckle]
11:50 FS: Is the flip side. I think that there is a subjective monotony and I think there is an objective monotony.
11:57 AH: Okay.
11:58 FS: I think there's certain types of people that just don't fit in a particular job, because it's... Like I could not be an accountant. That's just, there's no way, and nothing against accountants out there. Honestly, we need you guys, the world would not turn without accountants. But I could not be an accountant. What makes me tick is being able to get up every morning, and I get to go meet new people every day, or I get to see people that I've known, I get to catch up on what's going on. And that could seem daunting to some people. Some people are like, "Wow. You go and you meet new people every single day, and you have to go in and you have to get products specified, and you have to go work deals out and show some prices, and that's kind of intimidating."
12:48 FS: For me, it's an adventure, and I love that stuff. But for me, it's really hard for me to be confined to like a desk and be sitting down, and just answering emails and answering phone calls. So the challenge for me is there is a subjective monotony. I could probably find some sort of adventure out of that, 'cause I had to do that for six to seven months beforehand, and I'll talk about that in a little bit. I don't wanna throw that out of the gun. One thing that I've talked to a lot of millennials about that I mentor, 'cause there's actually a couple of them that I mentor at this point, coming out of college and getting a job, is sometimes you have to suffer the monotony in order to move to the next step.
13:38 AH: Yes.
13:40 FS: It's tough, but you're not gonna get your dream job out of a box. It doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes it can happen, sometimes people get it.
13:50 AH: That's the exception though, it's not the rule.
13:53 FS: Very much so, very much so. Or you could be like my girlfriend who, she's a photographer, and she's very successful now, but it didn't happen overnight. And she works for herself. She had to build her business, she had to build her brand, and it's taken her about a year but now she's got it rolling. But it took a lot of sacrifice. And in my case, I had to go up and live in Oklahoma for six to seven months, in a place I didn't know, with people that I didn't know, and to be honest with you, it wasn't my favorite place to live. There wasn't really anything to do, there was no nightlife, there was no...
14:35 AH: There was no mariachi band to travel with.
14:37 FS: Exactly. There weren't any Spanish speaking people there. I felt away from home. So the challenge for me was balancing that okay, I gotta make this sacrifice to come up here and do this, but with the next step in mind, so thinking like this is just a stepping stone to where I wanna be. Ultimately, this is what I wanna do.
15:03 AH: That's good...
15:04 FS: I just had to, keeping that perspective.
15:06 AH: I like that. I like that you kept that objective in mind, "This is what I have to do now to get to where I want to be." So, how did you recognize that... Okay, you were asked to move to Oklahoma and be there for... How long were you there?
15:22 FS: I was there for eight months.
15:24 AH: Okay, so you were moved to Oklahoma for eight months. You didn't love it, but you did it every single day, and you proved to the higher ups or whoever you had to prove yourself to, that you could make it, and then eventually come home, or come back to Texas anyway?
15:41 FS: Yes.
15:42 AH: Absolutely.
15:46 FS: It was a challenge, it was a challenge. And I wanna add this, I know this is probably not important, in my interview, heading up there to take the position, my car broke down, like 15 minutes away from the interview, like my car committed suicide completely on my way up there. And so I was like, "Is this a sign?" [chuckle] I'm like, "Is this the right thing to do?" But it was. And one of the things that I know is my boss actually came and he picked me up there, and he took me back to the interview, he's like, "Don't worry about it, it's not a problem."
16:17 AH: I need a clarification point here. So you called in before your interview?
16:23 FS: Yes.
16:25 AH: You're unemployed at this point, correct?
16:27 FS: Unemployed, yes. Not an employee.
16:29 AH: And you called him and you say, "Hey, I'm on my way, but my car broke down." How far were you from the office?
16:35 FS: I was probably about 15 minutes away. It wasn't too far down the road but...
16:41 AH: And they came and got you?
16:44 FS: Yes, they did, they did. I was thinking in my mind like, "Well, this is a likely story. He's 15 minutes late for the interview, says it's broken down, of course he is."
16:54 AH: Did he offer or did you ask him to go? I'm just very curious how this came about.
17:00 FS: I didn't ask him. They said, "Hey... " It was actually the branch manager, it wasn't even the lady who was interviewing me at first. The branch manager himself came and picked me up at my car.
17:11 AH: That's amazing, that is not a usual circumstance, I will say that.
17:17 FS: Yeah, no. Lucky me.
[chuckle]
17:19 AH: Alright, so we talked a little bit about you've encountered some stumbling blocks along the way, besides your car, and you've managed to get through those stumbling blocks. But when you're thinking about Forest, who had not worked really a day in his life yet, when you think about the ideas that you had in your head about the workplace, what a career was like, what the working world was like, how is that different from what you're facing now? Or how did those views change? Did you have any reality checks that were like, "Oh yeah, this is not what I was expecting"? Tell us.
18:00 FS: I think my perception of my ability to be able to do the job that I have was not... I didn't have the level of confidence that I could do the job that I have now that I can do the job, now that I'm in it. Does that make sense?
18:16 AH: It does.
18:17 FS: Like beforehand I kind of saw the sales manager position would be really daunting, but rather I think people, especially millennials, underestimate themselves substantially and the abilities that they have. And that kinda goes back to, I think, a perception of your experience with people. Before I didn't see myself as a very social person, but you don't have to be a super extrovert or extremely social person to be successful necessarily. You just have to be... Here's a quote that I can live by and it's really enhanced my work, is, and I don't know the name of the guy. You can maybe look up later "There is no such thing as an interesting person or thing. There only exists an uninterested person."
19:26 AH: Really? I've never heard that. I will look that up though. That's very good.
19:31 FS: It's awesome. It really changes your perspective. It's caused me to on a daily basis, not necessarily see myself as having to be fully the best person that could be in a job at that very moment, but always being in a state of, "How can I learn how? How can I soak up knowledge? How can I improve myself in the position that I'm at now?" and then ultimately be able to pass that on to the next person that may be coming in next. So for me, it's understanding, "Hey, I may not have all the answers, but I can definitely find out and I can definitely learn to the best of my ability. And I think that's one of the biggest things that employers wanna know, is that you are the type of person that's gonna be like a sponge and you're gonna be soaking up and actually learning and not just a conduit for stuff to pass through.
20:33 AH: Absolutely, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. So, tell us a little bit about... You mentioned already the branch manager at EJ right now in the whole interview debacle, but is there anything that your company has in its culture, or in your specific office that is a perk or a benefit or just part of the culture that really keeps you engaged than wanting to do a good job?
21:05 FS: There's a lot at my job that really creates almost like a family environment within the team.
21:13 AH: Okay.
21:14 FS: And I know a lot of companies are scared like, "Okay, we can't get too close, because if we're like a family, then it might be a conflict of interest." What's really cool about my team is that we're not on an individual commission basis, it's a team commission basis. And...
21:34 AH: Interesting.
21:35 FS: We're broken up into different territories, so I cover South Dallas down to Waco out to New Mexico; two of the other salesmen cover the northern part, and we have a technical salesman who helps all of us out whenever we need to go into engineering firms and present for civil engineering firms or present to city engineers or city managers. So we all just work together, as a team, and it just flows. There's no competition between any of us on the team. We talk on a regular basis and we share what's going on. It's one of those things that I feel when I worked at Apple... Well, it wasn't necessarily Apple. I just think it's a millennial thing, that we like to text a lot more, and I'm okay with that. That's a great fast way to communicate. But one thing that I have learned, is the art of having a good phone conversation with these guys, and they're all 20 years older than me. Everybody on my team is, and I'm not kidding, is 20 years older than me. And they know how to have good phone conversations.
22:52 FS: And so I think a lot of people that I know nowadays are kinda like, "Why don't you just text me? Why do you have to call me?" It is a lot of value that happens in having a good phone conversation. So we stay very well connected; that's a perk I think I have, is I feel like I have so much trust built up between my team because we talk on a regular basis, and it's so light-hearted, there's no pressure like, "What have you been doing today?" like, "You've been accomplishing something? You probably sleep... You're a salesman, you probably slept in the day 'til 11 today." That's a perk I think for me. Another perk is we get tuition reimbursement which is awesome. They provide us with a truck, a brand new one every year, obviously it belongs to the company but we get to drive it around. They pay for your gas, pay for your food. So as far as the being taken care of as an employee, I feel like it's a great, great position to be in.
24:00 AH: That's awesome.
24:02 FS: Yeah. Yeah.
24:02 AH: That's awesome. I can definitely tell that there is definitely a spin towards family, just from just the story about the interview and the branch manager coming to get you. I was trying to think when you were telling that story, I had a similar situation happen on my way to an interview when I was young, fresh out of college, and it was not the same end results, let's just say that. [laughter]
24:33 FS: Wow.
24:34 AH: So I called as well, but it was just like, "Alright, well, too bad."
24:40 FS: Sorry. Dang. Their loss, right? Their loss.
24:42 AH: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So it just wasn't meant to be, but I think that that's a really good and positive thing for you. And it seems like the older sales reps are also maybe pouring into you a little bit as far as helping and teaching and guiding because they obviously probably have a little bit more sales experience than you do.
25:02 FS: Oh, and wealth. Some of these guys have been in sales... And just to put some of this into perspective for you, when I say a wealth of knowledge, some of these guys have been working in the same position for... When I say same position, were working for the company for 30 years, 40 years.
25:19 AH: Yeah.
25:20 FS: And that's longer than I've been alive.
25:23 AH: Yes it is. Yes it is.
25:27 FS: Man, I tell them all the time, I'm like, "Man, you know I was not born yet whenever you started working."
25:33 AH: Alright, don't rub it in now. [chuckle] Come on.
25:35 FS: But I respect the knowledge a lot, and that's one of the things... I would say this to millennials, my fellow millennials, whenever you get into a position, don't expect them to always have everything laid out for you. 'Cause I came from Apple where I was a spoiled kid. Apple literally has the best training programs in the world. They will train you so well to do what you need to do. And that's not to say EJ didn't necessarily do that, EJ just does it differently.
26:12 FS: When I came into the position, this is hilarious, so when I came into the inside sales position, I walked in and I was so excited, I was like, "My first day at work." And the office manager said, "Well, there's your desk." And I was like, "That's my desk, okay. What do I do?" And she's like, "Well, you pick up the phone when people call and you write quotes." It wasn't that bland, she helped me, but I kinda felt that way when I first got there, I was like, "Where's my... " When I got to Apple, they took us away from the store to this nice hotel, and they had this very skilled trainer who came, then we did shadowing, reverse-shadowing, and they taught us all these steps of service, and it was very well polished.
27:05 FS: So I got to EJ and I was like, "Man, I'm gonna have to put together just a list of questions and figure out from the people around me, what I need to accomplish, and I need to set goals because I thought to myself, "This is no high school job. This is a big boy job, so I'm gonna have to step up to the plate and probably ask some questions to get trained on how to do this position." So that's exactly what I did and what I realized was, the team around me was super ready to jump in and give me help and advise me, and give advice, and that's how I learned so much, oh my goodness. So, here I am now.
27:57 AH: That's great, that's good to know, good to learn. Okay, so tell us a little bit about this. When you were looking to get your job at EJ, what was it that made you stand out, what was it that made them willing to drive 15 minutes to pick you up when your car broke down before the interview?
28:20 FS: Oh man. I think that... I do speak Spanish. And there is a large customer base that they have... An increasing customer base that needs a Spanish speaker. So that was one thing that really stood out was I'm very multicultural. I can relate to a lot of people, I have been in multiple different countries, and so they really liked the fact that I get along very easily with a very broad range of people. It's just something that comes naturally, and that kinda stemmed from being an Apple as well. When I worked at Apple...
29:00 AH: Oh yeah.
29:00 FS: I helped the President of Mexico, the ex-president Mexico once, Felipe Calderon...
29:04 AH: Really?
29:05 FS: I was like, "Why are you here, without bigger security detail?" [chuckle] But I was glad to help him out myself. But anyhow, I was exposed to a lot of different types of people. And another thing that really stood out that they liked at the position I was at is that I was able to handle escalated situations. Apple actually trains their employees very in-depth. It's like deep psychological stuff. I can say that now that I don't work for them. But they teach you what's called the Apple Steps of Service.
29:45 FS: Alright, I'm gonna try and get this. So, it's, Approach with a warm welcome, that's the A. Probe which is ask questions, position a solution. Listen, and end with a fond farewell. So that was the sales side that I learned, which just literally ingrained this sales process into me. But they had another one that was the three A's which is acknowledge, align, and assure. If you have an angry customer that comes and they're like, "Ah! My phone!" They throw it down. And you say, "Well, yep, that's a broke phone. That looks really bad. Man, I hate to see that your phone broke." And they say, "Yes, and I had these pictures of my wedding that my brother filmed with my iPhone." In the back of your mind you're probably thinking, "Why did you film your wedding with your iPhone and not save this stuff?"
30:47 AH: But you don't say that.
30:49 FS: No, you don't. That's part of the training. You align with the customer, "Man, that iPhone needs to be fixed. We gotta figure out everything we can do." That's part of the assure, you assure them. I think that one of the things that my boss was reassured of was the fact that I had a really extensive history of dealing with really escalated situations and repairing... Kind of my deal at Apple was I was repairing relationships with customers and turning them from demoters into promoters of the company. It was just kind of a mindset that I had whenever dealing with the company's customers. So that was attractive to them. And the fact that I graduated with a business administration degree, I have a focus on marketing was also... I feel like it was attractive to them though, not as important as the other things.
31:47 AH: Right, absolutely. Especially doing what you do, I think it's important to have that skill of being able to assure people and understand where they're coming from. 'Cause city planners, bless them, not always the easiest people to deal with, and they shouldn't be, they should not be.
32:04 FS: No. They can be very moody sometimes. You gotta be careful. [chuckle]
32:09 AH: A lot of things riding on their shoulders. A lot of things are riding on their shoulders so I get it, I get it. Is there anything that you wish companies knew about hiring younger employees? Is there anything you wish that they would do better?
32:26 FS: I wish that companies would dig deeper into searching for more meaningful leadership experiences that millennials have had.
32:36 AH: Give me an example.
32:40 FS: For example, I think that a lot of companies base salaries and pay based off of your... Maybe not as many nowadays but I've seen a couple and I have friends that have had a couple that they get based their pay based off of their education. That's what is their ticket to getting in the door to certain places. Rather than a company taking time to really ask specific honed questions related to leadership experiences and areas where this person might be a champion leader that could be a huge asset to the team that they have. I'll give you an example. There's a guy that I work with that is one of the top salesmen in a global... This company's a global company. And he's one of the top salesmen. The guy never graduated college. And he actually started working in the foundry in one of the finishing crew grinding the castings.
33:42 AH: Really?
33:43 FS: He is one of the greatest people persons that I know as far as relating with customers and generating new sales, being able to get specifications with cities, phenomenal guy. His name is Larry Stinson, I gotta give him a shout-out. He's the guy that's trained me to do what I do. The guy never got a bachelor's degree. Actually, part of the requirements for my job, not knocking EJ at all, I love them, they did a great job, is that you have a bachelor's degree but they made an exception for him. Thank goodness that they did because he's one of the best in the company.
34:23 AH: Alright. I like that, I can get behind that. I can stand behind that. I think that's awesome. Especially now that college is expensive to get through.
34:34 FS: Exactly. I think that's definitely increasingly a problem. I talk to a lot of people nowadays that are... Some very intelligent people. My girlfriend, for example, I'll give you an example with her. She's very smart, but she just didn't have the money to pay for the school that she was going to. So she just decided to start her own business. Now she's making almost as much money as I have or as I'm making right now doing her own thing. I don't know.
35:09 AH: Yeah, I get it, I get it. I also mentor a lot of millennials, younger millennials, and I have one young lady that I've mentored for I don't know, maybe five years now off and on. And she is getting her bachelor's degree because her family thinks that education is very important, but she's paying for everything herself, and it's taken her seven years. She works full time and goes to school full time, but she pays. She's taken no loans, no nothing. She's paid every penny. That's a lot, that's a lot. Anyway, alright, well Forest, this has been fantastic and I think that we've learned a lot of really interesting things, not just about you, but about Apple and about EJ and their family philosophy on the workplace, which is really kinda cool. It's very cool actually, but thank you so much for being on the show. Is it okay if anybody from our audience wants to reach out to you on LinkedIn?
36:11 FS: Certainly, yeah. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions, or you have any questions about EJ, or you just need advice. I'm here.
36:21 AH: You're here? Alright, cool. So I'm gonna include a link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes, but I will also include a link to your song, "I love you back" on iTunes and Spotify. I'll include that as well, but again, thank you so much for being on the show and thank you for tuning in.
36:38 FS: Awesome.
36:39 AH: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below. It's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work, are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 17: Attracting Millennials with Company Culture appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Millennial expectations of the workplace versus the realities are often misaligned. Hear about how 2 millennial rockstars have found a company culture that brings out and develops the best in each of them.
Ashleigh Skuse is a Director of Inside Sales - Enterprise - North America at Veeam Software. While Stephanie Gilbert is the Enterprise Sales Manager - North Central & Southeast at Veeam Software. Veeam Software is a privately held information technology company that develops backup, disaster recovery and intelligent data management software for virtual, physical and multi-cloud infrastructures. The company’s headquarters are in Baar, Switzerland.
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Tweet *Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The Transcript - Developing Millennials as a Corporate Strategy **00:00 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rock Star Podcast.
00:04 Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and I am the host of the Millennial Rock Star Podcast, and if you're looking at this podcast today, you'll notice that things are a little bit different than what you normally see. And they are different for a few reasons.
00:15 Amanda Hammett: First and foremost, you'll see that I am not in my normal studio office, because I am at the office of Veeam Software who employs my two, you heard that, right. Not one but two Millennial Rock Stars.
00:29 Amanda Hammett: So, help me welcome to today's show, Ashleigh Skuse and Stephanie Gilbert, welcome ladies.
00:35 Ashleigh Skuse & Stephanie Gilbert: Thank you for having us.
00:36 Ashleigh Skuse: Glad to be here.
00:37 Amanda Hammett: Awesome, awesome, well I am so excited to have you guys here. I will be very honest with you. When I came up with the idea for the Millennial Rockstar Podcast, you guys were some of the very first people that popped in my mind.
00:48 Ashleigh Skuse: Thank you.
00:49 Amanda Hammett: So, I do not know if you remember, but about a year, a year and a half ago, we met each other. You guys came to an event where I was speaking at a women's leadership networking event, and you guys were just standouts. The entire Veeam community. What did you guys come with, 20 women from Veeam?
01:05 Amanda Hammett: Yeah, about 20 of them.
01:05 Ashleigh Skuse: Yeah 20, 25.
01:07 Amanda Hammett: It was. You guys were standouts, and the community and the engagement that you guys had, as employees, just stood out my mind. I secretly will admit to stalking Veeam online.
[laughter]
01:16 Amanda Hammett: Because I just thought it was so amazing what you guys were doing, so I knew I had to have you. So why don't you guys tell the audience a little about you guys? Let's start with you Steph.
01:26 Stephanie Gilbert: Sure. I was born in Tampa, and from Tampa moved to Roswell, Georgia. Which is right around the corner from the Veeam office here and Alpharetta. I went to Georgia Southern University and studied, well originally studied psychology and then decided that was not going to be my path, and went marketing and business. And from there, went into the clothing industry for about five years, was an inside sales rep for a clothing industry and then moved over to Veeam, and I have been here for about five years.
01:55 Amanda Hammett: That is awesome. Now, what about you Ashleigh?
01:57 Ashleigh Skuse: Yes, so, I am originally from Ohio, I graduated from the The Ohio State University. I actually went to school for Sociology, not because I knew that was a path that I wanted, but I knew I wanted to be in sales, and all I had to do was sell my degree. It didn't really matter what it was in. So I just went for something that I loved and I was passionate about people and the study of people. So why not go through sociology, which I really enjoyed and loved that, but knew sales was were I was going to be. Veeam was actually my first job straight out of college. Only job I interviewed for after college and I have been here ever since. So, eight years last month, with Veeam.
02:27 Amanda Hammett: Wow, okay well, that is awesome. I love both of your stories. So tell me a little bit about... Well, let us take a different approach, today since we are in a different place. So tell me what you love about Veeam?
02:42 Stephanie Gilbert: I love the people. I love the collaboration that we have here. Our executive management team is phenomenal. They take time to sit with you, no matter who you are, I mean you could be fresh out of college in our entry level position or you could be another executive. They take the time and get to know you, get to know your ideas and it's one of those places where everyone has good ideas. And it's just now trying to figure out how we take all those good ideas and execute on them. So, I am just inspired by everyone that works here.
03:15 Amanda Hammett: That's fantastic. What about you?
03:17 Ashleigh Skuse: So people is definitely number one with Veeam, right? I knew for a fact we were going to have the same answer to that question, because it is so true.
[laughter]
03:22 Ashleigh Skuse: But it is absolutely people, but also the innovation, right? Not only with our products and the innovation that we have with the products and making them for exactly what our customers are looking for and need. But also the innovation just as being how we promote people within. How, we really work on the people that we have and their leadership skills and their skills on the phones and their skill on kind of selling our products. And how to work with the different communities that we work for and our alliance partners and our channel partners, so definitely the people and the innovation of Veeam. It is just... Trust me, when I started eight years ago it was not this.
[laughter]
03:52 Ashleigh Skuse: Right, when I started eight years ago we were in a different building. We had, when I walked in my first job out of college, there was no cubes, no phones, nothing.
04:00 Amanda Hammett: Wow.
04:00 Ashleigh Skuse: No laptops. I walked in and I was like... What did I get myself into? Right, but it's all worked we've innovated. We've made it to what we needed it to be to that next level and we just continue to keep taking it to those next levels, and that's just so exciting to be on that train. And I am not getting off that anytime soon.
04:17 Amanda Hammett: That is awesome. So all right, let's back up though. So you actually started at Georgia Southern, and so when you were graduating, take everybody back to...
04:27 Ashleigh Skuse: Oh, boy...
[laughter]
04:27 Amanda Hammett: Take everybody back to Georgia Southern, and give us some ideas about when you were looking at your career, have there been any reality checks from the... Stephanie, that graduated from Georgia Southern, 10 years ago, versus Stephanie today. [laughter] What have been some of the reality checks of what you thought you were going to face in Corporate America.
04:52 Stephanie Gilbert: Let's see here, I am going to make my parents proud with this one now. Reality check, you know when I was graduating college and I think a lot of people that come fresh out of college are like... "Oh, well, I can't wait to get that 80k a year job. I am going to have all this flexibility. Such an adult. I am going to live in this high rise apartment in Downtown Atlanta. It is going to be fabulous and me and my fabulous life." And then getting out, I moved back in with my mom, which was fun.
[laughter]
05:22 Stephanie Gilbert: And then looked over at Monster and that was when Monster was popular and just going through all these things that needed, all these years of experience and I didn't have it, I didn't even know the first place to start. And so that, just having that kind of overwhelming anxiety on how... Where do I even start my career when everything seems like it was in the middle, and that if you didn't have at least five years... If you didn't have at least three years. So where do you get your... Where do you start your professional jump, I guess, if you will?
05:52 Stephanie Gilbert: And so I had worked for a clothing manufacturer, for inside sales and learned a lot of great things from a lot of great people there. And then, making my way over to Veeam. It's been amazing how much I've learned in the last five years, really in the last two years, from being a manager. So yeah, I guess considering expectations versus reality. [laughter] Some of the things I think that I would give to somebody that is about to graduate, is never take any experience for less than what it is. Doesn't matter if it's a $10 an hour job or your dream job and you're making that 80K that I wish I had made out of college. Take every single experience, because it's gonna apply in your future, so...
06:36 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, same question for you, Ashleigh. What's up?
06:42 Ashleigh Skuse: I was just laughing, because...
06:43 Stephanie Gilbert: Take it back to the Ohio State.
[laughter]
06:46 Ashleigh Skuse: I remember when I was a bartender at Texas Roadhouse and what I would tell the bar guests of what I was gonna do. I knew for a fact I wanted to move to Georgia, but I promised my mom I would move home first to look for a job in Ohio. I didn't go on one interview, I didn't even apply anywhere, right? But I was gonna look for a job.
07:02 Stephanie Gilbert: Your mom's not gonna watch this.
[laughter]
07:03 Ashleigh Skuse: No, she knew. We just went shopping and had fun for three months, and then that date hit and I moved to Georgia, and then started looking for a job. But I, like Stephanie, just assumed that I was going to straight out of the gate be this rockstar, making six figures within my first job. Reality hit pretty fast, and luckily, I have... My mother is extremely successful in her career and my brother's also in software as well. And I knew software was what I wanted to get in, so he kind of reality-checked me a little bit, so I had that. But still, it's learning that money is great, and it's definitely what you want and what you wanna strive for, but it's not the key to happiness. The key to happiness is being confident in what you're doing, and in order to be confident in what you're doing is learning from everybody around you. When I was an ISA, which is our entry level position, is where I started out here at Veeam, is... It's a grind. You have to make those cold calls and do all those type of things, and you have to have that mindset where it's only making me better for next year, for tomorrow, for... Looking down the future and knowing that all of that success comes, but you gotta be good at what you do first. And I think that that is something that is very... You're just invincible when you're in college, and you don't realize that it takes a lot of hard work. It's like, "Why don't you wanna pay me this?" "Why would we pay you this?"
[laughter]
08:16 Ashleigh Skuse: "Give me a reason why I should." [laughter]
08:19 Stephanie Gilbert: "I'm so worth it."
08:21 Ashleigh Skuse: Yeah, "I'm so worth it."
08:22 Stephanie Gilbert: But it's harder to see the bigger picture without the experience.
08:25 Ashleigh Skuse: Absolutely.
08:26 Stephanie Gilbert: And that bigger picture comes with it.
08:27 Ashleigh Skuse: Yeah, it comes with that experience, and just... Learning that it was humbling and it took a minute, but once you learn that and you just kinda put that on the back burner and be like, "I'm gonna work my butt off." And one thing that I learned early on in my career and I still try to do it but there's a lot more on my plate now, but it's like, never say, "It's not my job." Just do it. Do it and learn from it and maybe it's not your job per se, but somebody else is looking and watching you do it, and that's something that I think as you grow in your career, the more you do that, the more success that you're gonna have, because you're learning all those different aspects.
08:58 Amanda Hammett: That is a great little nugget there, Ashleigh. Very, very, very good. I love that.
09:03 Stephanie Gilbert: Yeah, I need a nugget.
[laughter]
09:05 Ashleigh Skuse: You'll have one, I'm sure.
09:06 Stephanie Gilbert: Okay. I'll work on my nugget over here.
[laughter]
09:08 Ashleigh Skuse: We'll get you one. We'll get you one, don't you worry.
09:10 Amanda Hammett: All right, so tell us a little bit about... You both had mentioned something about hard work and about learning as you go, and I think that that's something incredibly, incredibly important. So tell us about what were some of those pieces that you learned early on that have made you successful today?
09:27 Ashleigh Skuse: So I think, as cliche as it might sound, attitude is everything. And I've learned that from the time I was... My mother owns a four-million dollar Tupperware franchise, and she's got all of these... It's number one fourth... Number four franchise in North America. And she is just crushing it, but she's always had that attitude. So I learned it from a very young age. Attitude is everything and, if you don't have the right attitude and that mindset... And everyone has off days. Don't get me wrong. We all do. I do, for sure. And that's okay. Just understand that maybe tomorrow... Today you can close the books, but come back with a better attitude tomorrow. And I think that that's one... Don't let the bad days get you down, just make them... It's a lesson in life. Why was it a bad day? What did I do? Was I not prepared enough for my day? Why did I not feel accomplished today? Ask those type of questions and have the right attitude towards that, I think is the huge... Cliche as it is, I think attitude is absolutely everything.
10:17 Amanda Hammett: Sometimes cliches are cliches for a reason.
10:19 Ashleigh Skuse: I know, right?
[laughter]
10:20 Ashleigh Skuse: I didn't make it up.
[laughter]
10:22 Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. Well, what about you?
10:24 Stephanie Gilbert: I had something that I tell my team all the time. Every single day, have a highlight. If there is nothing else, if you are coming in and you are checking a box. "I came in, I woke up, I took a shower, I answered emails, I talked to my co-workers, I made X amount of dials and then I went home." There's... It's yes, you checked a box, you fulfilled your duties of the day, but what did you do that made your job great? What fulfilled you that day? And I think some of that comes from a job that you're passionate about, but even if you're not in the job that you're currently passionate about, if you have that one highlight, you can take that to somebody else and say, "Hey." Share what your highlight was for the day and that might spark something in them, say, "She's gonna be great for this position one day" or "We can prepare her for this" or "Have you thought about X, Y, Z?" Because great leaders should know and be able to identify strengths and where you might fit in the puzzle when you might not even see the puzzle, so...
11:26 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. That's a great point, I love that.
11:29 Stephanie Gilbert: Nugget.
11:30 Amanda Hammett: Nugget, yes!
11:31 Ashleigh Skuse: Yeah, you got one!
[laughter]
11:33 Amanda Hammett: So since you kinda segwayed into this and I think maybe you were just reading my mind... We'll say that, that's one of your skills.
11:40 Stephanie Gilbert: I'm very... Yes, very...
[overlapping conversation]
[laughter]
11:41 Amanda Hammett: So let's switch over a little bit to Veeam. Veeam has this incredible culture, and I'll just brag on you guys as a complete outside third party for just a second. As a company, one of the things that I noticed is that I'm brought into companies all over the world. And they bring me in and I audit them and I watch and I observe and I interview and I survey them and I just break them down. And one of the things that I noticed is that when you guys went to this luncheon, the group of 20 women went to this luncheon that Veeam sent you to. What I noticed is two things. You guys were... Even though you were outside and it was a social event, you guys were playfully picking on each other and it was all playful, it was it all in good fun, and it was... You could tell that the relationships were real, that was the first thing. But the second thing is, I always heard you guys laugh. There was a lot of laughter.
12:33 Amanda Hammett: And so whenever I'm walking around a company and I hear laugher coming from the cubicles, I know that we've got a good team.
12:40 Stephanie Gilbert: Are you sure that's not lunacy?
[laughter]
12:42 Amanda Hammett: There's a different type of laughter. Good point. No, this was fun laughter. And so I just wanted to take a moment and just point that out to you guys, that you guys have a good thing. What is it that Veeam does that keeps you guys productive, engaged, happy, laughing? What is it that they do?
13:03 Stephanie Gilbert: I'd say there's a lot of collaboration. We have a lot of whether it's gonna be a team meeting, whether it's gonna be a meeting of managers, whether it's just popping into somebody's office or their cubicle, bringing up ideas and sharing ideas. We have one of those cultures where it is something with... People wanna talk to each other, and people wanna share something, or they wanna go out together for lunch, or whatnot, but it is like that collaboration that really does bring that sense of community and people here want to... They wanna hang out after work, they wanna travel together, they want to see their ideas come to fruition but hear other's feedback. I would say that here we probably have a little bit of that thick skin. Maybe that's a natural sarcasm that we have, that's probably also part of the laughter.
13:46 Stephanie Gilbert: But we're a company that can handle constructive criticism and appreciates constructive criticism and then applies it. And I think that's probably one of the things that people learn to trust about each other, is that you're always gonna get something from somebody here, and you can trust the people that you're working with.
14:04 Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. I love it, I love it. What about you?
14:06 Ashleigh Skuse: I think it's a very family, it's a Veeam family. Yes, it's a corporation, yes, we're in the corporate world. All of that is true, but especially this office, and we are a Veeam family, we've all been together a lot of us for a very long time, and the new people that we're bringing on, it's not like... It's not a step-sister, it's like, "Hey, come on. Your in here. You are part of our family. Let's dig in, let's get to it." And everyone is out to help. Collaboration is obviously huge, but if you need help, ask, ask anybody. You can ask from a VP to someone sitting right next to you. It doesn't matter, just ask for the help and if they can't provide the help, we're gonna go find the answers for you, and kinda give you that help. So I think the Veeam family has really done a lot. And Veeam I know we're doing even more to make it more fun, make it better here. Having snacks in the break room and getting a better coffee machine, all that kind of stuff is stuff that we are continuing to improve on.
15:00 Ashleigh Skuse: But family is something that you can't buy or make. Family is just... Family is because of the people that you hire and the people that you put in the seats. And I think that we've done a really, really good job at and going out and getting that great talent to keep that whole Veeam family going.
15:13 Amanda Hammett: So, you brought up an interesting point about the family. So those of us who study workplace culture, we actually call it a clan mentality. So you guys are really competitive within each other, pushing that bar, encouraging each other to be better, do better. But anybody come from outside, and you want to attack the clan, no... So that's fantastic. And those teams tend to be the most productive and they tend to be the most cost-effective long term.
15:41 Amanda Hammett: So there you go, didn't know that. All right, so, you guys mentioned a little bit about developing, so let's talk a little bit about that. What is it that... I've loved hearing about the development that Veeam does, but is there anything that has really stsood out to you in particular that was great for your personal development?
16:00 Ashleigh Skuse: Yeah, so last year, we actually both went to a training in Boston, with the CEO and founder of Leading Women and she really taught us how to think... As a female in this industry, you are very, sometimes you are taught show your personality, do this, do that, but really you need to understand the strategic, the business, and the financial acumen of what's going on. It really taught us to think in those different ways and to thinking into the numbers and tag all the great stuff that we already have and put that down and think more like a CEO versus thinking like an individual contributor.
16:32 Ashleigh Skuse: And I think that that has been great for... Great for our careers and really like light bulbs. Like the whole time we were in that training, it was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. All these light bulbs going off and just knowing that, "Oh, I already had this in me. It just took someone to pull it out." And now as a leader, I get to pull it out and not just in females, in males as well. I get to help pull that out now that I can pull it out of myself based off of that training that Veeam sent us to. So I think that that was huge.
16:55 Amanda Hammett: That's huge. What about you?
16:57 Stephanie Gilbert: Well, to piggyback off of Ashleigh, Veeam put in an exorbitant amount of money... Not exorbitant, but you know what I mean. They put in a lot of money for this specific training for us leaders. And I think that when a company puts in a financial... Yeah, a financial... What is that?
17:13 Amanda Hammett: Investment.
17:14 Stephanie Gilbert: Yes, a financial investment in their people, it really makes you feel like you are a part of something and on the cusp of greatness. But for me, I think for my... My biggest development has been, and I know I mentioned it earlier in this process is that we have our VPs that give us an open door policy. No matter who you are. And that has helped me out immensely. Having those larger, bigger picture, strategic conversations, understanding the numbers behind something. I am very detailed, so I can go on and on and on about something but in order to kinda see maybe the bigger picture I was missing some of the numbers. I was missing some of the... What percentage of growth... Where did you make this impact and how did you impact your own business. And so it took me... Having those conversations with somebody like that, especially someone that's numbers-driven, like a VP would be. But to bring that back to my team and make sure that I'm holding people accountable in the right ways. So that's been instrumental in my growth, here.
18:17 Amanda Hammett: You know what, you've mentioned this before, and you have mentioned this before, but I love that they're doing... They're taking the time to do that with you.
18:23 Ashleigh Skuse: Right.
18:24 Amanda Hammett: Because, I mean, not only does that help you develop, but it helps you develop the team as well, below you. So that is fantastic, and that's a good sign of leadership, absolutely. All right, so what is it that your direct bosses, your direct managers are doing to keep you motivated, happy, and engaged?
18:42 Ashleigh Skuse: Challenging.
18:44 Amanda Hammett: Okay.
18:44 Ashleigh Skuse: They bring challenges. I recently just moved over. So I used to run our inside channel and one day they decided, "Hey, Ashleigh we want you to run the Inside Enterprise team." And I was like "Great." [laughter] But giving those brand new things that, outside of my comfort zone, right. Your comfort zone is this big, and there's so many opportunities outside of it. And if someone doesn't push you to go out that comfort zone, you're never gonna do it. And I was very comfortable in what I was doing and I loved my job. I loved what I was doing, I loved my team, I loved all, everything about it. But when I got asked to go out of that comfort zone, it was not an easy decision for me. I went home, I went over to my brother house, I called my mom, I called my father in law, I called everyone, I was like "What should I do?" And they were like, "You'd be stupid not to take this opportunity." And it's totally true. And now my new boss, who is really a mentor. I know your boss is supposed to be your mentor, but you know what I mean, it's kind of inevitable, right.
19:35 Ashleigh Skuse: It's just he challenges, but at the same time, let's run me on business. Run the business, see how it's going, come up with your strategies, and then we'll kind of talk about it together. We'll get through it, we'll run through it. Which I think is very good and it's very... You run this business as long as we hit these numbers, you can continue to run this business and I won't get too far into it, [laughter] if not needed. If we're seeing the successes of it. Which I think is a very... It keeps the morale up, it keeps it... We're not getting hound on. Let me hound on my team, right? We don't need you to come, don't skip level, right? There's not very much skip level going on at Veeam, which I think is very helpful when it comes to keeping the morale up and working with the team. And we've got a great rapport and a great relationship and he brings a new challenge every single day and I think that that's a huge... I like a challenge. I didn't know I liked them back in the day, but I do.
[laughter]
20:21 Ashleigh Skuse: You learn that you like them.
20:22 Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. Well, if you didn't like them you'd be at the wrong place.
20:27 Ashleigh Skuse: This is very true.
[laughter]
20:29 Amanda Hammett: What about you Stephanie?
20:31 Stephanie Gilbert: The projects, Veeam leadership has been really, really good at identifying and delegating projects to people that want them. If you want something that's a little bit outside of your realm, then they'll identify, "Hey you'd be really good at X." And for me, I love finding little ways to motivate our entire sales team, not just my own team, but... End of the quarter push, like that end of quarter, if you're in sales, end of quarter is so stressful. But having some of those just fun things in the office, like games and some internal competitions and things like that, to really keep up people's spirits. I love, I love playing that kind of thing and so...
21:07 Ashleigh Skuse: And she's so good at it. Anytime a party needs to be planned or we need some morale boost, it's like, "Steph, where is she?" [laughter]
21:13 Stephanie Gilbert: It's true. I actually, I planned a human Foosball table out here, in the parking lot, yes.
21:19 Amanda Hammett: Interesting.
21:20 Ashleigh Skuse: You missed it.
[laughter]
21:21 Stephanie Gilbert: It is... It was about 20 feet long, but everyone holds on to the Foosball poll, and they run back and forth and try to kick a soccer ball in. And there were bruises, but we had a really good time, so...
21:32 Ashleigh Skuse: Okay. HR is like looking the other way. [laughter]
21:36 Stephanie Gilbert: They were off that day.
21:38 Amanda Hammett: Awesome.
21:39 Stephanie Gilbert: Waivers are great. [laughter]
21:43 Amanda Hammett: So let me ask you guys this, you guys are now in a position to hire, correct?
21:47 Stephanie Gilbert: Uh-huh.
21:48 Amanda Hammett: So tell me, what is it that stands out to you? Because you guys have a very interesting, fantastic, but interesting culture. So what is it that stands out to you?
21:56 Ashleigh Skuse: Personality, 100%. I am a very firm believer on hiring personalities that will fit within your team. Not that every personality needs to be the same, but I could teach a lot of things. I can't teach someone a personality. That's something that your mama taught you that, right. [laughter] I can't really, that... But I can teach and train and coach too, a lot of the things. Like how to sell our products and how to have conversations with the partners, how to have conversations with the end users and our alliance partners. We can teach all of those things, if you have the right skills. Obviously, now that I'm in the enterprise space, there definitely needs to be a little bit more than personality. You need to know how to have that solution sale and like that kind of stuff. But still, personality is gonna get you very far when it comes to interviewing because it just, it needs to mesh, it needs to fit. I need to know that if I leave tomorrow to go travel to Chicago or do something like that, that all the personalities are working. The team is working together and everyone is getting along, and helping each other. If you don't have a helpful personality and you're not a team player, odds are, I'm not gonna hire you.
[laughter]
22:49 Amanda Hammett: All right, what about you?
22:51 Stephanie Gilbert: Being prepared. Because you can bring so many different things to the table if you're coming up for an interview. So if you're prepared and you know exactly what you're going for, you can spin any kind of situation no matter if you come from the IT industry or if you are just breaking out. You can spin your past into something that's gonna be worthwhile here. So as long as you do the necessary research on that and you're not just like, "Hey here's all the things that I'm great at. I can kick a soccer ball, good for your foosball." [laughter] But it's just knowing who you're going into. It's doing the necessary Google searches and looking at, not just the website but going in and looking at LinkedIn and using all of your resources. Because that's a big thing about working here at Veeam, you have to know... We have so many different resources that if you don't know how to actually leverage resources, then that's not gonna be a fit for them.
23:42 Amanda Hammett: That's fantastic. I love it, I love it, I love it. All right, well, you guys, I think you already know I'm a fan. So I think that you guys are fantastic, but thank you guys so much for being on the show you guys are just... You are rock stars, you are definite definitions of rock stars.
23:55 Ashleigh Skuse: Thank you, you are too. [laughter]
23:56 Amanda Hammett: Thank you.
23:58 Stephanie Gilbert: It's true, after your... After we went to your luncheon. She was like, "I want her to be my mentor too."
[laughter]
24:04 Ashleigh Skuse: How do I get on that?
[laughter]
24:04 Stephanie Gilbert: I was like, I bet's she's got a list of people.
24:06 Ashleigh Skuse: I have like a mad girl crush on you.
24:10 Stephanie Gilbert: We're all like, "Amanda, take us."
[laughter]
24:12 Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar Podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below, it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free, millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis, because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
[pause]
25:06 Amanda Hammett: Well, thank you, I'm blushing, so thank you.
[laughter]
25:09 Amanda Hammett: So thank you very much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar Podcast and we will see you in the next one.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 16: Developing Millennials as a Corporate Strategy appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
As an expert on millennials and the next generation of workers, I am often asked how do you motivate millennials? Many times, the answer is far easier than you think. Millennials are attracted to companies and leaders who value mentorship and empowerment.
Katie Kirschner is a Client-obsessed, Data-led, Results-Oriented Strategy, Marketing + Communications Executive at NCR Corporation. The NCR Corporation, previously known as National Cash Register, and for a brief period known as AT&T Global Information Solutions, is an American technology company that makes self-service kiosks, point-of-sale terminals, automated teller machines, check processing systems, barcode scanners, and business consumables.
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Tweet *Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The Transcript - Motivating Millennial Employees Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the millennial Rockstar podcast.
Amanda Hammett: All right. In today's episode of the millennial rockstars podcast, I got to interview Katie Kirschner, who is with NCR Corporation now. Katie has a. She is just a dynamo of energy and you're going to see that in the interview for sure, but she walks us through her career, which although she's only 32 years old, she has a wealth of experience from corporations all over the world and she's bringing everything she's ever learned right into NCR here in Atlanta, but I think one of the biggest takeaways that I walked away with after this interview was when she talked about the best manager she ever had and how that manager actually empowered her and gave her a voice. So tune in and tell me what you think.
Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett. I'm known as the millennial translator because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And speaking of top millennial talent, I have Katie Kirschner with NCR. Hey Katie. How are Ya?
Katie Kirschner: How's it going?
Amanda Hammett: Well, I'm so excited to have you on. I reached out while back to NCR to one of my contacts there, Christine Bell, nab, and she's like, oh my gosh, I have some one for you to get her coffee, a starbucks gift card for. Fantastic. Fantastic. So Katie, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you?
Katie Kirschner: Um, sure. So, um, I'll tell you a little bit about where I am right now and then I'll talk about how I got there. So, um, I work for NCR Corporation. Um, if anyone is in Atlanta or if you've seen pictures, we have this massive beautiful glass building right off of the main highway that goes through Atlanta. Um, which I'm super excited about. Not just the building but the company itself. So I've been with the company for a little over a year. It's dynamic in nature. So I've actually changed my role already being in the company that I currently lead, brand and marketing shared services, which is basically brand strategy and governance, industry analyst relations, market insights and business intelligence, consumer and buyer persona development and journey mapping and creative services and marketing agency management. So it's quite an eclectic group,
Amanda Hammett: A very collective group.
Katie Kirschner: Funny about that is I'm not just that this role was kind of created within a certain framework that our marketing leader wanted, but also how it fits in with my background and why am I able to kind of navigate and do this very eclectic set of work. So rewind a couple years back because I'm not that old, but I actually started in the restaurant industry and I worked there for about 10 years and I will say I learned so much learning in that industry. I would highly recommend anyone who hasn't worked in the service industry to do so. Um, it's anything from multitasking to dealing with difficult people. People are different when they're hangry. I think we all know that, yes they are. And not only that, but the dynamics of the different age groups that you work with in the restaurant industry. You have career restaurant tours who are there until well into their sixties to teenagers who are just coming out of high school and they're being hostesses. Right? So I learned quite a bit and the dynamics of how to deal with different types of teams and then also the multitasking, the aggressiveness of the entire sort of industry that, where you're in, you have to think on your feet.
Katie Kirschner: It's very stressful. Um, I loved every minute I will say I loved working in the industry. Um, but from there I decided, you know, I was in school at the time. Most people they have a job or they're in school and um, I was actually a musical theater major and I had this great passion for learning about theater and music and I did quite a bit of theater, um, from chorus to a musical theater all the way to dramas on the stage. And then I realized I also had a great knack for languages. So I started learning languages at an early age. So I am Japanese and Irish. Um, so my, my mom and she grew up a little bit in Japan as well, California. US, my grandmother, straight off the boat. Um, my dad has that Irish Lithuanian background. So he's a very eclectic, funky background.
Katie Kirschner: So I grew up in this multinational sort of cultural home, so by nature I wanted to learn different languages. I just thrived on understanding the culture. So because of that I kind of got drawn into well who, who lets you see other countries and kind of learn about cultures and where would language value in that I fell into business. So I changed my major from musical theater to where apparently you'll starve and it's so hard to get into. And I was like, all right, I moved to business and um, I loved it and I kind of, you know, it's just so funny. You, you, you study theater and you realize how much you'll actually use theater and business. But, um, yes, branding, for example, marketing, a form of form of theater, uh, that should be a play by the way. I'm going to get coined for that.
Katie Kirschner: Um, so I started in the business realm and I'm with languages and with travel. So I also love to travel. I think the only way for an individual to truly learn about the culture that you're going to sell into or do you understand? There are two things you've gotta, um, you gotta learn their language and you got to learn their food. I think that's the basis of every culture, but we'll get into that part. So after that, um, I got my bachelor's in Spanish, Italian and a international business from Georgia State University. Loved the panthers. I'm straight into the city and I actually started college when I was 16 years old, so that was, just, won't go into that AP, finished that needed to go to college earlier, decided to do so. But um, after that I was like, okay, well I'm really loving this business aspect and this was during a time where, you know, I think a lot of millennials can identify if you're in the older realm with the millennials, but recession and hard to get jobs and um, you know, where am I going to go next?
Katie Kirschner: So I actually decided to, um, move into my masters right away. So along with my masters, I, um, um, I studied international business and I had a focus on branding and corporate strategy. Okay. So, um, give me one second, just one second. Sorry. There we go. I just have to move. We have, we have a ecofriendly building here at NCR, so if no one's moving in a room, the lights will go out. So sorry about that. Um, another plus for NCR. But, so after I finished my master's in international business, I, um, I did a couple of boutique consulting engagement, so I first lived in Caracas, Venezuela, and I did it associate engagement there. Um, and then I was like, you know, I want to do consulting and I think when you get your masters or you always think of like this amazing life for everyone travels and you get to experience the cultures.
Katie Kirschner: They always, sometimes you think consulting first. Right? And that's, that's what I wanted to do. I also loved corporate strategy, so I was like, I wonder if this whole thing. And so the dean of my business or the dean of our International Business College actually sat me down and he was like, okay, um, you know, what do you, what are your plans for your life? Basically drew a timeline, which was the most valuable thing this gentleman could do. Um, and he just said, you know, do you want to have kids and get married here and, you know, what are your aspirations, what do you want to learn, et cetera. And so I told them all these things and um, I was just everyone and anyone to do that timeline timeline at least a certain amount of your life, you know, your major goals, you know, what do you want out of your life?
Katie Kirschner: And he geared me, he said, well, based off of that actually wouldn't suggest consulting, but everyone needs a basis in operations, every company needs operation. So it would be, it would be so valuable for you to learn that. Um, and just through connections, um, and a job that popped up with a global logistics company, I got placed there. So, um, that was leading strategy slash marketing for the Americas region for um, one of the top three global logistics companies in the world. So huge, massive company. Um, and that was my first, like, I wouldn't say it was like my real job, you know, you consider, you don't have to sit in a restaurant, a real job. I don't know why people don't because it is a real job or you bolting going around Italy and all over these places, but I'm really getting into that corporate world and then having to explore house.
Katie Kirschner: How the real world does what you learned in your masters, you know? Um, started there. Then I decided through that. I actually traveled the world live in a couple different places. Hong Kong is Argentina, Madrid and I met my husband through that who then encouraged me to go back to Europe to live there and I decided not to move with the company I currently was with, which was a German company. We learned a lot of cultural aspects about, um, and this is the funny part. I worked for a German company in America and then I moved to Germany and I got hired by an American company so, and I actually got hired there because they wanted an individual who could translate why American culture doesn't fit everywhere and why the strategies or the marketing they're going to instill won't work in the rest of Europe or in Germany itself was like, that's really interesting.
Katie Kirschner: So, um, got hired there, moved up the ranks to lead, I'm sales and marketing for the region, more marketing focus this time, kind of cool because I could take my strategy aspects and then apply that to implementation strategy. And then from there, um, we got a new CEO while I was in that position and I guess I made an impression on him somehow and so he pulled me to leading marketing and communications globally for the company. So they say, yeah, it was a, it was a big job. Um, and I, man, it was, I was awesome that he has so much faith in me to do that. Um, I mean I was competent at the same time. This is a four point $5,000,000,000 company, 29,000 employees, but the nine countries. And I'm just thinking, okay, I can do this. Like, and I loved, he brought me into the office when he had first asked me whether I wanted to.
Katie Kirschner: First he asked me if I was interested in the position. I was like, yes, please. Like who's not going to interested in someone's telling you, would you like to leave? Marketing Communications globally for the company, and he brings me in. He said, okay, listen, I want to know if you had one fifth of the resources that we have today within marketing communications. What would you do?
Amanda Hammett: And question? Yeah,
Katie Kirschner: it was a great question because yeah, that's a tough one. Um, so I laid out kind of just off the top of my head a plan and I said, well, I think these are the most important areas to focus it based on what I've seen in the field. And that was important. I had been in the field, I'd seen what wasn't and what was working, especially from a European perspective I had gained. I gained quite a network and some of the other regions just because it became you just start to create it because you're creating fields, kind of marketing elements.
Katie Kirschner: Um, so I brought that to the top and I told him what I, what I would cut automatically where we need to focus as a business. I knew our strategy just because that trickle down quite easily. Um, so then he said that was great and I guess he decided to put me in the position, um, and he said the best thing that I did, because I talked to him later about it when I presented it was I didn't come in and tell him, well, the first thing I would do is, you know, build another empire. I would start again and I would try and build my empire. Um, so it wasn't as power focus, it was more where can we get the best result with the small, smallest amount of resources. And it's not to say, well, I would start building resources again, which apparently it was more, Hey, if I have to be scrappy, like I know how to be scrappy.
Katie Kirschner: Um, I've had a job since I was 15 years old and I've, you know, I know how to kind of build things out without having much. So, um, I guess that helps in that scenario. And um, so from there that company actually got acquired and I decided not to stay on with the acquiring company, um, because it would have had to live in a different country than Germany and I didn't want to move, so it was just this perfect kind of time in my life. I said, you know what, I'm ready to come back to the states. I hadn't been in the states about nine years and I wanted to come back to family. Um, so I interviewed for the position at NCR while I was still in Germany. I had 11 interviews, which is pretty insane, but I'm NCR is they like to know that their people are good people, so I can, uh, I can also say that that's a good thing.
Katie Kirschner: Um, yeah. And then I got my first position within, um, like a portfolio sort of marketing role and then um, marketing change and shift a little bit within our company. We're dynamic, um, with, with the technology industry, you, which is just as dynamic. You also have to be dynamic in nature. So then I'm here I am fantastic.
Amanda Hammett: Oh my gosh, you have had all of these like crazy experiences in a relatively short amount of time. I mean, you've probably had a lot of love momentus different occasions in your career that someone would have over the course of like a 20 or 30 year career. Do you know what I'm saying?
Katie Kirschner: Yeah, I do. And that's why people don't believe me when I tell them how old I am, although I try not to tell them how old I am, but I'm actually serious. I've, when I was, when I first started my leading, I'm leading marketing communications for that company. People would first meet me, they would say, I was just wondering like, how, how old are you? And I said, well, I mean, you're, you're more than welcome. Two guests don't ask a woman her age. Uh, although I don't care, you know, I'll tell him that I said I, I, you know, you can guess I have, you know, I have two degrees. I've lived in seven different countries. You know, I'm married. So I was married or getting married at the time. So I'm getting married at the time, part of my degrees is a masters and they would be like, okay, yeah. So you're like, you just like age really well. So you're like 39. Right? And this is like years back. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like even if you said I aged well and then you told me that you thought it was 39, I don't know, I don't know to take that as a compliment or not.
Katie Kirschner: And it's partly because people, I mean you have people our age who we, we've just, we love to learn and we've been ambitious in nature and um, and it's even the aspect of a collectic learning or focused learning, right? I just happen to learn from many different fields and um, and, and fortunate enough to have learned strategy, which is a science that can be applied to any industry, including marketing. Marketing is also the science. So, um, I just think people don't, they don't match the two to think. There's no way that you can have done all that and have been that young. So, um, I, um, yeah,
Amanda Hammett: that's awesome. I mean, that is just an incredible background of information though, and I feel like what I see a lot of times with my rockstar millennials is that they do have what I call a lily pad of experiences. You're here and you're gaining skills and information and you're learning, but then you're ready to move on when you feel like you've mastered it, you're, you're not willing to sit there and just wait, you know, for the next thing to come trickling down to. You want to proactively go after it and so you do more like lily pad hops. Whereas previous generations were more willing to wait and move up wrong by wrong above singular silo and you, you are not singular in your silos.
Katie Kirschner: I don't know if it's even just that. So I would also say it's, it's the mentality that certain generations have. So I hate when I hate. I hate to use the word hate. I dislike when people say, Hey, millennials, you know, our, our company hoppers or career hoppers and that's just. It may be true in some cases, but in other cases it's simply listened. The, the environment that we live in today, so dynamic in nature that were actually pushed to move in different areas and learn different things. I mean if you look at a marketing role today, you might as well be a technology officer like you're meant to know technologies and data and analytics. You can be, you can run down a data and analytics if you want to. So actually if you had come from a marketing role and then you went into a data and analytics role and you had to go to a different company or whatever to learn that that was the force of the whole where consumer technologies and consumers meeting commerce are changing.
Katie Kirschner: So it's not so much that I'm not loyal to this company, to the company, but just for my own nature to do my, my passion better. So not much, but my passion better. I've got to learn x or I've got to know x and I get pulled in a different direction. Yes.
Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. That is, that is amazing. So Katie, with all of this experience that you have, um, I would imagine that there have been some bumps and bruises along the way. There may be some lessons learned along the way. So, you know, what is the one that immediately jumps into your mind?
Katie Kirschner: Oh, so the top one I would say is if there's one thing I've learned, it's to be, I live by this motto and I tell my team I live by this motto as well and it's to be open, honest and transparent. Um, and I've learned that having those two things at the core of the relationships that you have not just personally but also within business is actually proves to be quite fruitful. So I've learned that the hard way. I've had previous bosses who would think that I was competing with them because I'm just that learn, go theater and always throwing out ideas and challenging things. So I play Devil's corporate strategy. I play devil's advocate a lot when you build strategy to do that and a stress test things. And sometimes that wasn't taken as well as you would've liked it to be. And so I realized whenever I present an idea or I'm forcing someone to push themselves to think differently, even if it's my superior, if it's my boss, I need to also first establish that the relationship is. And this is the second thing that I hold core to learning is, um, my sole goal is actually for my peers, my employees, and my managers to be successful.
Katie Kirschner: That is my goal. So when nowhere is there, my goal is for me to be successful or my goal is for me to find success and move up and move on. Because if I hold dear to say, I want my boss to be successful and how can I help my boss be successful, my employees, how can I help them learn, grow and become successful? By default, I've become successful. But if you, if you change your mentality too, it's about you and it's about you becoming successful. You Act differently. Um, so I've, I've learned that from that experience of former boss who thought, you know, I was trying to take the reins and I wanted their job. I realize now I have to be honest and open like right up front and I need to continually be transparent with these individuals to why am I doing these actions, you know, be transparent into how do I think, you know, how can you interact with me and being honest in, in feedback.
Katie Kirschner: Like if I give individual feedback that there's a direct part, open, honest, transparent, and probably direct would be a fourth one. I would love that back to meet, right? Because I can't grow or change develop if it's not that way. So um, bump in a road is, is people tend to think, or I don't want to say people in general, but individuals may think, you know, I need to guard my intelligence or guard that because I will be, I don't want to be indispensable. And it's like, man, if you just knew I'm putting the team members first and your boss first in success, like it's life changing. It's actually a weight off of your chest to always think it has to be about you reaching that next level. You'll get there. You will and much faster if you're helping other people become successful. Much, much better.
Amanda Hammett: Okay. Absolutely. I mean, for every person that you know will maybe not treat you as well, there'll be 20 others that will be like, oh, you know, Katie did this for me and they'll bend over backwards for you and do even more than you could ever ask. Sorry, I just hit my desk. All right. Fantastic. That's awesome. Alright, so we, it feels like 20 minutes ago we talked about Georgia state and going into the working world now. When you were sitting in class at Georgia state or in your master's program, were there, you kind of mentioned that there were some differences in the, what you were learning versus the reality. So tell us a little bit about what was that reality check like for you? Was it a huge wakeup call or did, do you feel like you transitioned easily?
Katie Kirschner: Um, you know, it was, I just actually had lunch with one of my professors recently. Okay. Master's program at Georgia state. And I told him, I said, you know, there's, I think what they teach you in school is foundational. It's things that you, you, you should know going in, like you should know how to do accounting x and that helps you because you have to apply it to y and Z, whatever that is. There are foundational things to know as a basis. I think the wakeup call came from, um, knowing, understanding how politics work. So politics isn't just in politics. Um, so you're like, hey, yeah, these, these processes, this is how they're suppose this is the ideal. I learned that this was the ideal and this is how you build strategy and this is the reason you do it. And you try and, you know, bring a company out of ailment.
Katie Kirschner: And it's like, yes, but there are also, there are targets and goals that are sometimes unseen that you don't realize until you get in there. Right? So, um, you know, I've been in an, I did boutique consulting, so I've also been in companies that are like, yeah, we want this, we want this to be the goal. And you're like, okay, well I've done the research and I've done the data and actually like this is a better goal. Like this would be the ideal because based on where the market's going or whatever it is, and they're like, yeah, yeah, but we want this to be the goal, so we want you to create data and strategy so this should be the goal and you're thinking your head. That doesn't make sense. That goes against everything I learned like shouldn't you? You should look at the balance sheet and you should do the research.
Katie Kirschner: Right? But they understand like that and it may not that it's a malicious thing. It may be they have a different longterm vision of what they want to do with that company. They want to do something completely different or someone's going to retire and that's going to change the direction of where that company is going to go or or whether they're going to set themselves up for sale or whatever it is. So learning that there is a, there are, there's a politics and be underlining initiatives that don't. Don't pop up in your everyday case study when you walk through your master's program. That's probably the biggest, like, Whoa, okay. So it's not, you mean it's not all textbook
Amanda Hammett: thing. I mean those, those people get in there and just mess things up.
Katie Kirschner: Why would you want to do that? That makes no sense. And then, you know, you never know what it's for. But clients always in it.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So let me ask you this, Katie, um, let's talk about, you know, bosses in the past, mentors maybe in the past or maybe currently that you have, um, what are they doing or what have they done to keep you really engaged? Because I mean, you're super dynamic, flat. You're on your own, so they probably don't have to do a whole lot, but you know, what is it that they do that keeps you super passionate and just like out there asking tough questions and getting that feedback. What, what is it that they do for you?
Katie Kirschner: Oh man, some of the best managers I've ever had, I'm truly lived and not just set it but lived empowerment. So example, the managers that would come to me and say, hey, we need to get, we need to get x done, or we have this chat, Alan Cheer, what would you recommend doing? Or what would you do? I said, well, based off Xyz, I would do this. Okay, go like you go and do it, or you, you go figure it out. Or are not that they wouldn't guide along the way, but that they, they felt that they could empower me to make a big decision or to build something that would actually affect anything in the company. You know, I think empowerment to say um, to not micromanage constantly. Like always worried like, oh, what is this? She's too young or she's going to fail because she doesn't know any of it. She hasn't been in the industry for 30 years. I've had two fantastic manager, actually three fantastic merrick managers are just like, they were like, well, what do you think? And um, yeah, well, if that's what you think, let's go with that. You know, it's, it's the simple trust in I think this because of x. and I just see, you know why, and they believe it and they empower you to go and do it and you know, what, you may fail sometimes, like your, your guests or what you decided to do may not work out. But I've had those same managers come back to me like, you know what? Yeah, that didn't work out, you know, that's okay. So what else would you do if it didn't? If they asked me that didn't work. So what do you think was the challenge in that? Why didn't that work out?
Katie Kirschner: And it made you think, okay, well, if this is why it didn't work, then maybe we can try x and, you know, change some things, some elements to get to the right solution to get it to the target. I'm that afraid to fail. And I know that's so overused. Don't be afraid to fail. Um, but you actually have to have management that is also not afraid to fail and afraid for you to fail. Um, and I love that. And I've had some great managers that they empower you and they're not afraid for you to fail. That's awesome. That is, that's really great and that's a great sign of a wonderful manager or leader because I can tell you that it's not always the case. Now there are people who like to control and there are people who, um, you know, they're, they're scared because their team is a reflection of them and at the same time you have managers who are like, Hey, if we fail, we fail together and I'll take the rap just as much as you'll, you know, you'll get the rap.
Amanda Hammett: So that's awesome. That's good. That's good. And that makes the team want to work even harder to make them look good.
Katie Kirschner: Oh yeah.
Amanda Hammett: So, okay, well good. Now what about any kind of perks for any, any of the companies that you've been with current or in the past that you were just like, man, this is nice. I mean, it doesn't have to be, you know, ping pong tables or anything of that nature, but, you know, extra days off or anything that just pops into your mind that a company has offered as far as benefits or perks.
Katie Kirschner: Oh yes. Benefits, um, keeps you engaged and happy at work. I'm probably the worst at this actually. I'll, if I can give one best I'll give to you. So the first one is flexibility and time. So, um, I think the worst thing a company can do, especially in this day days, age and says you need to work from eight to five, you need to be in the opposite and you need to leave at five.
Katie Kirschner: And it's like, okay, well, you know, if you're more flexible and you allow me to get a better work life balance, you're going to get far more productivity out of me. And I currently work for a company that's like that, that's very like, hey, you know, you don't have to. If you live not in the city and you need to drive all the way down here, comment like 10, leave by two. So you miss traffic, you'll finish your day at home. You may wait longer one day and shorter the next day when they strive for results rather than a time clock. That is one of the best benefits that accompany can give. And believe me, you'll get the results if you don't focus on the time clock. And the second thing is, um, I am a workout masochist. So part of my work life balance is being able to go to the gym and uh, I don't want to.
Katie Kirschner: I'm like NCR, so great. Like come work at NCR. I'm basically trying to get talent. So anyone who watches this, I'm basically trying to get down. Okay, video, okay plug. But we have the coolest Jim ever in this, in our building. And the reason I like that is it's a part of the work balance conversation, right? Um, for them to be able to provide that, to focus on health and to make sure, you know, hey, not only are you flexible for when you're in the office and when you're not, we focused on the results, but we also want you to stay healthy while you're here. Um, and have the ability to work out and they give classes. I'm also on great schedules. They have wonderful personal trainers in there as well. So, um, I love the fact that I can come in really early and I can work out and then I can just go straight to my desk or I can on my lunch break, go and work out and, you know, come back up to the office and I like that flexibility. So that's probably the second coop. Cool perk. Let's say.
Amanda Hammett: That's a really cool. I love that. I, I, that's, that's pretty cool. Very cool. So I assume that you don't go straight to your desk from working. We have an awesome locker rooms. I think that your, your coworkers would appreciate.
Katie Kirschner: I'm always like I did where the. Okay, just making sure.
Amanda Hammett: So, um, I, I know that you are obviously not fresh out of college, but is there something that you, is because you are fairly new, you, you were on the job market fairly recently, so you have a good idea about what it's like being out there looking for a job. What is it that companies need to do a better job of when they're looking at getting more rockstar? Millennials like yourself?
Katie Kirschner: Oh man, you know what, my biggest pet peeve and I am relatively new because I was applying when I was in Germany for the job in the US, you know, I know people want to be very extensive in the hiring process. I think that there are a lot of companies out there that make it so difficult even to apply and I want to say like an application is important, but it only says so much about a person and if you're looking, if he, if the job you're hiring for is a copywriter or a communication person, absolutely.
Katie Kirschner: Then you'll probably want, I want you to write an essay about xY, , Z and I know they're there. You need to weed out some, you know, because they probably get thousands of them. And I know this, I hire people as well. We get thousands and thousands of CD's, but truly I'm talking to somebody is a little bit different than having them, you know, go through this massive application process. And um, I think interviews are important. So I actually love that NCR did 11 interviews to hire me, you know, because it gave me a chance to see all the different people in the company and talk to them. Um, the different viewpoints, what each of them would be asking me, but also it gave, and we do this today, like I don't, I'm not the only one who interviews individuals that we hire my team, I actually have my peers interview them, I have my managers, other people in different areas I know that they would engage with because everyone has a different perspective.
Katie Kirschner: So what, you as a hiring manager, you may know what you want and you're like, I have this vision and the insight you get from someone else looking at that person from a different angle is so valuable and you don't get that from an application because you're not. Or an essay that someone wrote because someone who. So I'll give, I'll give a concrete example. I did horribly on my, like I'm just, I'm not a test. I'm not a standardized test taker. And I literally went to um, to admissions, the head of admissions at Georgia state. I don't know if she remembers this, maybe she will. She ever watches this, but I went to her and I said, listen, I know that my score is not good. I'm not good at standardized tests. I said, you could give me any other tests in the world except for a standardized test.
Katie Kirschner: I will replace it. I said, I guarantee you like I am going to be a great asset to this university, that I'm going to do such a great job. And she said, well, let me have you talked to you know, the business. I'm the Dean for our Institute of International Business or whatever it was at that time. He had a different position. I said, okay, and so I sat down and I said, listen, I'm telling and you know, I, I pitched myself, I talked to them, I told him why I would bring value. I told him how, sorry I didn't score well on it. I did all these, you know, different ways to like, do better at it, but I'm telling you like, these are concrete. I said, you know, how long I've worked and you know, why, what I bring as a value, like just verbally being able to say all that.
Katie Kirschner: Um, and I know some people have started doing videos to do that. I've seen that on the Internet, which I think is funny. But, um, I got, I got in based off of that, like for, for going to a business school, which is mostly people look at your scores. I got in strictly off of an interview or two interviews and then telling why my background's mattered. And I love the example of, um, a cat. Cole, I don't know if you've heard of her. She's a, she's an executive here in Atlanta as well for focus brands and she, um, she also, she doesn't have an undergraduate degree, but she wanted to go into a master's program and so for her to say, Hey, I don't need my undergraduate degree to be able to do this program, I think I'll bring value to it. You know, she went to Ted Turner and asked him for a referral and she's like, listen, like I'm telling you, um, I can really bring value to you by me coming to your program. And I think the same is with companies. I'm not saying interview every single person you have to have a lead out, but don't make your application process like the most horrendous thing are people writing 17 essays, et cetera. I don't think them writing 17 essays will let you know how they're going to be in their job. I would rather, and I actually saw Siemens do this. Oh, I said a name of a company I would see a as is where they, you recorded
Katie Kirschner: video and just talk about yourself. And I was like, that's genius, man. I wish more companies would do that because I'd love to watch the video over. Even me as a hiring manager, I'd rather watch a video than read your 17 essays.
Amanda Hammett: All right, so we've already made a disclaimer that this is a hiring firing for instance. So there you go. Okay, that's really cool. And I couldn't agree more. I actually was speaking at a university recently and a lot of the students, it was right before graduation, a lot of the students were talking about the process of getting a job and you know, they were going onto some fantastic companies like oracle and Cisco and I mean huge brand name companies, but they were all complaining about that initial application piece that one of them said it took like three and a half hours to just get through the process and they're like, and then I never heard anything back and it's like that, you know, three hours I'll never get back.
Amanda Hammett: And I'm like, yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. So I mean, it, it, it is, it's painful universally. I think so. Very cool. All right, so Katie, I mean this has been fantastic. I've learned so much. I mean, I literally, I now want to be your friend and then look like we're going to hang out because we both live in Atlanta, but we do have to wrap up. So is there any last nuggets of advice that you would like to give the audience of the millennial rock star podcast?
Katie Kirschner: Wow. Pressure. Um, you own your happiness, so you choose your attitude and you own your happiness. So don't expect a manager to own it for you. Don't expect a friend to own it for you. Um, you own how you choose to approach things and how what you know is your passion, what's going to make you happy, so focus on you, making yourself happy and less about thinking that other people or things are going to do it for you.
Amanda Hammett: Wow. Wise words, I can't say anything else. So thank you so much for joining us, Katie, and thank you for watching. See you next time.
Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial Rockstar podcasts. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at Amanda Hamot Dot Com. The link is below. It's Amanda Hamot Dot Com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis. Because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
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Building a millennial friendly workplace is many times the goal, but rarely done well. Building that kind of environment along with a leadership structure that encourages and empowers millennials to grow is even more difficult. Today Illinois rockstars with Nia Tate's and Katie Rose Postelle.
Nia Tate is a Digital Marketing Project Coordinator while Katie Rose Postelle is a Project Coordinator at Communiqué USA, Inc. As a 15-year, fast-growing community of marketers, Communiqué USA provides flexible marketing and communications services for corporations in need of relief for their overworked and understaffed teams.
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The Transcript - Millennial Friendly Workplace Culture Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the millennial Rockstars podcast.
Katie Rose: Hi, my name's Katie Rose Postelle. We just got to talk on the millennial rock star podcast so you can check it out.
Amanda Hammett: Hey there. I'm known as the millennial translator because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And speaking of top millennial talent today on the millennial Rockstar podcast, we have not one but two Rockstars. Can you see that two rocks are looking at them. They're rock stars. So, um, I will be very, very honest with you. I to be on this show, you've got to be nominated by a boss or a current or former boss or maybe even a coworker. So I know the CEO of communicating USA very well. Shawnee. God One, she is a fantastic woman and I was with Shawnee and her right hand Stephanie one day and I was like, Hey, I need some Illinois rockstars and I want to interview them. And immediately they came up with these two ladies right here. So today we have Nia Tate's and Katie Rose Postelle. Hi Ladies. Well, I am super excited to get to know you guys today and I know that the audience is as well. So Nia, why don't you kick us off, tell us a little bit about you.
Nia Tate: Yeah. So my name is Nia Tate. I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia. I live here. I love it, absolutely love it. But we have enough people. So
Nia Tate: yeah. Uh, I went to Georgia State University, studied marketing, marketing, now we're in the market, so it's really fun just to learn all about the field and especially I communicate.
Amanda Hammett: And what about you, Katie Rose, tell us about you.
Katie Rose: Oh, my journey has been a little more convoluted. I grew up in Orlando, Florida, went to school in Virginia and got my degree in English and have since lived in Georgia as well as Texas and took some time traveling but did not know I would end up in marketing, but I've ended up loving it, especially working with communicate married and have a five-month-old baby girl
Amanda Hammett: and um, right. So I'm going to switch it up and since this is a different interview format, because usually you know, it's just one person. So I'm going to ask you guys to tell us a little bit about your career path. So Katie rose, let's actually start with you. Tell us a little bit about how you went from being an English major in Virginia to working in marketing. No,
Katie Rose: I ended up with an English degree because it was what I enjoyed most and I was in the middle of my junior year and said I should probably declare what I'm going to do exactly. And I love reading and love studying it. So I ended up getting that degree when I moved to Georgia without a job actually because my boyfriend now husband was living here and reached out to a couple of different contacts and just said, hey, these are my credentials. I'm looking for a role. And a friend from childhood actually connected me with Stephanie and the rest is three and a half years of really enjoying just seeing the company grow and learning a lot myself. I never thought I would be in marketing, but I feel like I've grown so much and learned a lot of new things through intentional training as well as through, Oh my goodness, this is a project right now. What can I learn on the fly? And so it's been really exciting.
Amanda Hammett: That's really, really, really, really cool. Alright. So your app, tell us about like you from Georgia state born, raised Atlanta girl too to being where you are now.
Nia Tate: Yeah, so originally when I started college I was actually a nursing major, wanted to be a little different.
Nia Tate: Um, but then when I found out nursing wasn't for me into business and I really fell in love with the marketing classes that I sat in on. So I decided to make a marketing major and then at the time I was working at a fast food chain, just learning about just the culture and everything of that nature. So when I graduated from college is when I really kick, started my marketing career. I'm a law firm so it's really cool to just learn about it there. That ultimately got connected with Stephanie and then connected with Johnny and now here.
Amanda Hammett: And how long have you been at communicating?
Nia Tate: A little bit over a year, so yeah.
Amanda Hammett: Okay. Very cool. And then Katie rose, you said you had been there what? Three.
Katie Rose: Just over three years. Three years, okay.
Amanda Hammett: All right. So very good. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. All right, so I know.
Amanda Hammett: So wait for Nia, be very specific. How long have you been out of college
Nia Tate: for three years. This may for three years.
Amanda Hammett: This may. Katie rose, same time. Five years. Five years. Okay. So you guys are still pretty early in into your career. So I mean compared to myself as an older millennial who is a little more established in her career or let's just say that you know, you, you still have probably been through a couple of bumps and bruises along the road. Right. All right. Well why don't you share this with us? Tell us who wants to go first.
Amanda Hammett: Thanks for being brave, Katie Rather.
Katie Rose: Well, I'm going to be candid to please. I did not have an internship. It wasn't a requirement and so on. This essentially my first full time job when I moved here, it took me a couple of years of traveling and trying to figure out what I wanted to do before I ended up here and not having any corporate experience. A lot of it I feel like I've been learning on the fly. For instance, I called Stephanie before this interview and ask, okay, how do I. what's the proper way and what's acceptable, so I felt like I've been learning corporate behavior little by little as we go.
Amanda Hammett: Well that's. I appreciate your candor and your transparency and I think that our younger listeners, actually I was just at the University of Houston. I think that this is something they would love to hear. Fantastic. What about you, Nia?
Nia Tate: Yeah, I would say it's something that was a huge stumbling block was I'm learning more about different companies, so beforehand I did. When I said I worked for a fast food chain, it was great. Everyone was friendly and bubbly and everyone that we connected with us awesome. And then I graduated and got a real job, quote unquote. It was the complete opposite of everything that I had experienced, which the values and everything was things that aligned with what I believe, which are great. And they always, they always went by those, the different personality types, the dern, um, just professionalism, the manner and everything. They were so serious all the time. So it was completely different for that. I was used to. That was something that I really had to adjust to in that atmosphere.
Amanda Hammett: Okay, that's fair. I think that's really fair and you know, actually, that is something I tend to ask a question on is what kind of reality checks did you have coming out of college and into the corporate world? And I think that you both actually explain that really, really well. So thank you for that. We don't even have to go there unless you have another share, another shared thing that you'd like to your liking. I love it. I love it. I love it. Alright. So I am, I'm a big fan of the leadership at your company. I think that, um, I think that they get a lot of things right as far as the culture is concerned. Um, both the women that I know from there are rockstars. I mean Stephanie is just as sweet and kind and just like, hey, let's just do this and this and this as she can be. And Shawnee is just a mile a minute but at the same time just incredibly centered, which is just fascinating to me. Um, and her story is just, it's just fantastic. So is there anything specific that they do at communicating besides the crazy things that I just talked about as far as the culture there? Or are there specific perks there that, that they have or offer that really make you guys continue to say, Hey, this is the place I want to be every single day.
Nia Tate: Right? We have free parking, free food, and the flexibility to be mobile. One of the things that's really big for me was I love being active in my community. I love pouring into women in my community, but I also love my job. So being able to have the flexibility to be all in at my job and then all in when I leave to go do whatever kind of activity I'd like and to be supported in that was really amazing for me.
Amanda Hammett: That I love. I love that. That's great.
Katie Rose: Building on that, um, communicate has been so intentional with practical boundaries. Like we haven't emailed curfew where clients no should not expect to hear back from us companywide after a certain hour because we want to be fully engaged at work and then fully engaged at home and not trying to be in two places at once and communicate. It's been really good about expressing that can meet that expectation to our clients so that it's not incumbent necessarily upon us to say actually I'm not going to be refined to on weekends and things like that. So I haven't felt supported in that way, that there for us
Amanda Hammett: in our culture today. That is so not the way it is. Um, so I, I love that. And actually Shawnee and I have had a conversation about that in the past, but I'm glad to hear that you say that, but you know, I think it's even more important now that you have a little one at home because it's, you know, you do find yourself, especially at that age, that you're up with them at all unusual hours and sometimes you can't go back to sleep. So it's easy to go and just check your email and I'm glad that I'm glad that that rolls in place. So it just takes it out of the equation.
Nia Tate: Yes.
Amanda Hammett: Good. Good, good. All right. So let's talk a little bit about your direct manager and Tanya and, and what is it that Tanya does that keeps you guys engaged? Or is there any way that she kind of helps you work through problems or. Let's tell us, uh, how great she is.
Katie Rose: Well, I'll start. Hang on. Oh, hang on. She is so good about not just what you're doing a great job. Tanya gets to know you and she encourages you on specific. When we were doing strength a couple of years ago, one of her top strengths is blue, whoa, and it talks about her being able to bring people in to know them individually and she's so good at it, so I feel encouraged often as well as empowered. I've been working on particular projects with Tanya and trying to take some stuff off of her plate as well and just learn from her and she's given me a lot of freedom to be able to work through things and even made a couple mistakes sometimes and then we can learn through that as well and she's just. She's great at empowering us to make us feel like we're able to do these things and learn. Yeah,
Amanda Hammett: I love it. I love it. Okay.
Nia Tate: I completely agree with Tanya is extremely supportive. I will say that oftentimes you will have those moments where you're struggling with the amount of work that you have to do and have someone like Tanya come in and check on you and say like, are you doing? Not from A. I'm watching over your shoulder type view, but a really genuinely caring. How are you? How's life? How's work? How can I help? How can I make things lighter for you? If there's a need, how can I fill that need or have someone fill that need so that you don't feel this way? Um, so just extremely supportive and not only just say it, she actually gets things done. So it's one thing for people to be like, oh yeah, I'll help you. Another thing for them to actually take that action and you can see. So it's really great. It looks on yet
Amanda Hammett: so good to hear. I mean, I, you know, it's funny because a lot of times I do work with executive leadership teams and I'm like, look, the direct leaders are, are so crucial and people are like, oh, but we're going to promote them because of seniority to people that can actually, you know, talk to people and deal with people and treat the people that they're leading human beings. And I feel like in her womb status that she does that in her woundedness.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. That's really, really, really cool. Um, alright. So you guys were both still pretty young in your, in your career. So as we discussed, is there anything that, is there anything that you guys feel that made you stand out in the, in to the hiring manager at communique? What, what was it about your resume? What was it?
Nia Tate: Yeah, for me I'd say, and it's my personality and very friendly and bubbly. I think outside of those factors, my competence competence is key for me at least. Just knowing what it is that you're going in there to do the job that you're going to apply for, etc. So my competence and then also my skills and experience of course, having certain skills that are needed for the position that was originally applying for. And then also having that experience, whether it's um, even if you're still in school and you're interning so everyone doesn't get to intern. My internship had nothing to do with marketing, so it was like, you know, having some kind of though experience working with, um, within that field is a hand up. So I did have a little bit after starting at before starting and communicate. I worked for another job. But um, so that was my initial way in I guess.
Amanda Hammett: Very cool. What about you? Rose,
Katie Rose: one of the things that I think helped was I was interviewing with communicating and with the potential client on the same day and which was not stressful at all and when I was interviewing with the client, they were telling me about some of the editing work that was involved in a project that was supposed to take about half my time and I'm very detail oriented and not having a corporate background. I'm not sure now if this was appropriate, but they were talking through some of the edits and some of the visual things and creatively what they'd be looking for. Can you just bring me a piece right now and I'll walk through it with you and we can work. I'm not sure if that was inappropriate, but they said okay. And they brought over a piece and I talked through this, this town, overseer, this visual and just work through it top to bottom with them and what was supposed to take half of my time on my project turned into my full time job. So I think being detail oriented and perhaps without a filter to know, I think stand out in some way to be able to get on that project.
Amanda Hammett: You don't have a filter. I would just say that we're eager to take on the opportunity. There you go. That's how I would put it. Oh, you didn't know that. Now. Um, is there anything that you wish that companies and in, in did that made it easier for millennials as they're being brought into, into the corporate fold?
Katie Rose: I would talk about timelines and communication, hiring process. It has to be big, but to give at least an outline of what you can expect this process to take x amount of weeks or x amount of months. And this is the person who will contact you by this date with a yes or a no. It's good to know either way.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Any other suggestions? Nia?
Nia Tate: Yeah. Following up, making sure that they know. Because you said with the hiring process, right? Yeah. Just making sure that people know if they didn't get the position, that was a huge one for me because um, you're out there to suck. Wondering, did I get it? Did I not get it? I don't know. I think what would be valuable though, it's when, if you are turned down from a position that companies would tell you somewhat of a y so that you can learn and grow so that you're not repeating the same cycle every time. So I think that would be really good. Yeah,
Amanda Hammett: I totally hear that on that actual, the timeline issue. Early, early in my career I applied for a job and I interviewed for it and then crickets. I heard nothing four months. And so I had completely moved on. I was like, all right, well, you know, I didn't get the job. Um, and then they called me and offered it to me after I had been at a new job for two months and I was like, is this a joke? That was like six months ago. And they're like, well we have like a temporary hiring freeze. And I was like, well, you could have communicated that. So anyway, I did not take the job.
Amanda Hammett: It didn't, it just didn't work out. Anyway. Well, you guys, I mean this has just been really fantastic. I've really enjoyed the dynamic between the two of you. Um, I think I mentioned this to you before, but the audience did not hear this portion of the conversation before, before we started recording, but as soon as I was talking to Shawnee and Stephanie, I communicate and I said, hey, I want to have, have somebody on. They were like these two and we want them to gather even though Nia is in Atlanta and Katie Rose is in Texas. They wanted the two of them together. So they said they made it happen so that they could be together when we did this in your view. So I am super grateful to Shawnee and Stephanie car for you guys for making that happen. But you two are, you guys are pretty spectacular. I must admit. I mean, you guys both have some great personalities and I look forward to seeing some big things out of both of you. So thank you for being on the millennial Rockstar podcast.
Nia & Katie: Thank you for having us, Amanda.
Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial Rockstar podcasts. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at AmandaHammett.com. The link is below. It's AmandaHammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 14: Millennial Friendly Workplace Culture appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Loyalty in the workforce today is almost unheard of...especially among millennial employees. Yet, some companies manage to do it and do it well. For many millennials, company loyalty is where they want to be, but in order to do that...they must feel that the company is loyal to them as well. This particular episode showcases how company loyalty can be built in even the most difficult of life's circumstances.
Erin Welken is a Manager, Business Improvement at John Deere. John Deere is the brand name of Deere & Company, an American corporation that manufactures agricultural, construction, and forestry machinery, diesel engines, drivetrains used in heavy equipment, and lawn care equipment.
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The Transcript - Building Loyalty Among Millennial Employees Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the millennial Rockstar podcast.
Amanda Hammett: Hey, this is Amanda Hammett. I am known as the millennial translator because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent, and my top millennial talent of the day is coming to us from John Deere. Her name is Erin Welken, Erin. Welcome to the show.
Erin Welken: Hi everyone. I'm like Amanda said, my name is Erin Welken. I have been with John Deere and numerous different roles and all different functional areas for the last 10 years, so I'm super excited to be here and to share some of my experience with Amanda. I was honestly really surprised that I met her and she informed me that I was a millennial, so I didn't know that was the case. So now that I am, I guess I'll just embrace that and maybe try to change the perspective a little bit.
Amanda Hammett: Well, that's awesome. That's exactly the whole point of this entire podcast. We can just shut down right now. Perfect. Pointed that out. Awesome. Awesome. Well, I will say that the first time I met you, we were at a woman in manufacturing event and I was just really taken with you and your story and just your poise and just everything. Um, and so I'd love to chat with you all through that. Again, just this time for the audience, but let's, let's get started. Can you, can you give me an idea about, you know, were there any, when you came into the workforce from college, were there any reality checks that you face where you thought, you know, coming out of College, Oh, the working world is going to be this way and then you got there and it was like, nope, not like that at all.
Erin Welken: Yeah. So I think the biggest thing for me was realizing that it's not about what you execute but how you execute it. So I kind of came in and was less of a job that I knew nothing about. And so I was learning and then I gave a list of things that I needed to drastically change, which is super fun because everybody loves change and then I just tried to execute that list and it did not work at all. So that was one of my key takeaways is that it's not so much what I do but how I do it and how I engage people. And so it ended up being a fantastic learning opportunity. But that's been something that's stuck with me for my entire career is that I have got to work with others and I have to have a really compelling why the why is this important, why am I trying to change it? And so as I've kind of built my career, I've built myself on being able to work and collaborate with others.
Amanda Hammett: That's really cool. So the way I would spend that to a company is that this is the way you have built your personal brand within the company. You're like, you're known as a collaborator. You are known to, to build that in to everything that you do. And I think that that is so important, especially the way that the economy is changing and the workplace is changing. That's going to pay dividends for you long term.
Erin Welken: Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: Well very cool. So, um, what is your current role with John Deere?
Erin Welken: So I'm the manager of business process improvement and so my focus areas on supplier quality and I'm actually in the supply management organization, so it's a little bit of, it's actually a role that I was probably given because of the collaboration skills. Um, so the supplier quality lives in one buckets in John Deere and site management has its own bucket. So I support all of our ag and turf business, which is about 80 percent of our suppliers globally for John Deere and help collaborate between our supplier quality organization and our supply management organization.
Amanda Hammett: Wow. That is, um, that sounds like a very small job to do with 80 percent of all of John [inaudible] worldwide business. Okay. All right. So now moving into this role, I mean you said that you probably got this role because of your collaboration experience and all that good stuff.
Amanda Hammett: Did you find in this role or in other roles that there were any sort of stumbling blocks are learning curves that you really, really had to face and, and how did you do that? How did you manage it?
Erin Welken: Yeah, so my background, my degree is in sports medicine and athletic training, so athletic training and duology. I was a premed major. So now I'm in John Deere supply management. So let's talk about learning curves and roadblocks and whatever else you want to talk about. I got a whole dirty for you. So every job I've ever had in John deeres than brand new to me and not what I went to school for. Um, I actually got accepted in medical school, decided to wait a year because I was getting married, started at John Deere and just loved it. Um, so I know you've got questions probably later, but what I loved, but, um, I, I convinced them that I could do safety because I knew about injuries and the factory that I started at had an injury problem and they'd never had a safety person. So they posted for it.
Erin Welken: I'm not sure that they exactly know what they wanted, but I convinced them that I was there girl, because I could do injuries and new ergonomics. I didn't know anything about Osha. I had never worked in a factory. I mean, not that I grew up on a farm farm kid, so I knew about John Deere, but that was the extent of it. So I went from there and then actually became environment health and safety manager. So again, environmental, EPA, all of those calculations totally different. So again, another learning curve. But one thing I've gotten really good at throughout all of my experiences is not being afraid to step up to the challenge. So I know one of my strengths is that I'm actually really good at learning. Like I love the challenge. I love to learn, just throw something at me that I don't understand and I'm going to dive right in and be happy about it and as long as I have the autonomy to kind of make it my own.
Erin Welken: But I did that and then it went into a labor relations role that was focused on like a human psychology. So how can we use like by people make errors and study that and improve our processes with engineering to improve that? Um, so again, something completely different, but it's also shaped how I worked. And from there I went into a operations, basically an operations project manager side is strategic planning for the factory and you just reported to me, did some continuous improvement things, worked with the operations team developing that type of thing and then into lean manufacturing that initially it was us and Canada and ended up supporting a lot of factories even globally.
Amanda Hammett: So. Wow. So is that five or six roles in 10 years?
Erin Welken: You know, I don't know. I've never of probably five or six,
Amanda Hammett: a few. But I mean, I, I love the progression and I think that this is something that we're starting to very commonly see is millennials have this, there's this issue that people are saying, oh, they only stay. They don't even stay two years. It's awful. But what I've heard from you and what I've heard from every other rock star I have interviewed to this point is that they've actually had long tenures at companies, but they have moved, whether it's a lateral move or a slightly, you know, advanced move, but from area to area because they love that learning challenge. Whereas in previous generations you go into a company and you move just up. But millennials tend to move in a very like lily pad from, you know, a frog jumping from lily pad to lily pad. And that's what I've seen with you.
Erin Welken: That's right. Yeah. And one of the things I look at is what are the competencies that I want to gain? So I have a list of here's what I perceive are my strengths, here's what are my weaknesses and here's what I think I'm is untested or unproven at John Deere. So I always picture of people aren't a talent review and they're having a discussion about me, there's going to be people in the room and they're going to say, um, she hasn't demonstrated this. So she hasn't done that. And maybe I have that experience outside of John Deere that tells me that I could do it and I can be good at it, but I might not have had those specific internal experiences. So when I pick or consider next jobs, I mean, there's a lot that I consider about one of the key drivers for me are what are the things that I haven't shown yet, because eventually I want to get to the point that people have enough trust and also build my network as I go through all of these areas.
Erin Welken: But, um, I don't look at job titles, I don't look at pay actually. Um, I really look at it for myself, what am I going to learn from this job? And then how does that ultimately, um, enhanced my ability to be successful in my kind of end future job that I really want. And so what competencies do I think I need? What are my gaps? What can I continue to build? Um, what am I known for, what's my brand? Um, all of that. And it's really kind of helping me be really flexible with what the company needs. Um, I haven't boxed myself in which I think is really good and eventually it should lead to some of the roles that I'm really curious about or that I'd like to achieve in the future.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So I got, I've got to ask at this point, I mean you, you talked about, I mean you seem incredibly self aware about, you know, what are your strengths, but you also mentioned what are your gaps are do you have other people that are giving you input as far as you know, hey Erin, I've noticed, you know, you could use some work on Xyz or those mentors or those bosses who was helping you with this process?
Erin Welken: So I wouldn't say I've been really blessed with informal mentors, so I've had reached out and I was doing my mba. I actually reached out and got a couple of formal mentors in some of the areas that I just wasn't, didn't know anything about like marketing. So what do we do for marketing at John Deere? Okay. I can read about in a book or you can tell me. So I did that, but honestly, just in meetings, I had the opportunity to present quite a bit, you know, on records and different things. And I had some leaders say, hey, you know, I'd like to have a career discussion with you. Or I've reached out and said, you know, I really liked what you said in that meeting or I went to this panel discussion that you were talking about. Would you mind if I set up a 30 minute meeting with you?
Erin Welken: So I've really advocated and in so some people have known me for a couple of years and others maybe saw me present for 10 minutes or maybe talk to me in the hallway for two minutes, you know. But I always go and say, here's my resume, here's who I am. But most importantly, here's what I perceive are my competencies that have gained out of each one of these and here's what I think are my gaps. And I put out there and then they've given me feedback and said, well, this might also be a gap based on your, um, jobs. This might also be a strength or this is one thing that I see about you, and so over time I've had probably four or five of those really in depth discussions with leaders from different functional areas, but I'm initiated it, no, a couple of times offered, but I had to take the step forward and actually do it.
Erin Welken: Um, and I had to go to them very organized so I didn't want to waste their time and I really wanted some good feedback from them and that's really helped. That shifted my thinking from what job do I want next to what competencies do I want to fill? If I wouldn't have had those discussions, I don't know that my brain would have connected the dots to competencies and kind of backing off on that focus on grade levels or job titles or things like that. So those discussions really helped shape some of the decisions that I've made.
Amanda Hammett: Wow. Okay. So I just want to be incredibly clear for our younger employees that are listening. When you say you go into these incredibly organized, break it down for me. What does that mean for tio?
Erin Welken: Um, so I take at least half an hour to an hour and really get what are my three to five he items that I want to get out of this meeting. What are some ways that I could potentially help that person? So what are some of their challenges that they may have in that role? Like what can I offer back kind of to reciprocate to them, you know, so I try to offer that back and then like I said, I just, I sent my resume in advance so at least a week in advance or I put it right in the meeting notice and then I also let them know here's my strengths and weaknesses and some have also some of the jobs that I would consider for a next job and what my ultimate job would be. So if I could pick an ultimate role in might not be the job title, but where do I think I want to go? And then that helps shape the whole conversation for them because they can see where I want to go. It much better informs where my gaps are and gives them an opportunity to give me better feedback,
Amanda Hammett: That is amazing and I love that you're doing that and I love that you're advocating for yourself that a lot of times especially we tend to see this a little more in women than in men, but they're just not willing to speak up and they keep saying, I want to let my work speak for itself, but at the end of the day, it's the person that puts forth the effort and puts forth the, Hey, look at me, you know, this is what I want. Those are the people that tend to get it.
Erin Welken: Yeah.
Amanda Hammett: that's awesome. Um, all right, so I've got, I've got a couple more specific questions about what the inner workings of, of what you do. Is there anything that your current boss or past bosses or coworkers have done that really keeps you engaged and wanting to be productive at work and moving John Deere forward?
Erin Welken: So the biggest thing for me right now, so single mom with two kids, it's flexibility. Just the fact that John Deere is super flexible with me, so I've got a job and they trust me to do it and get it done and I've got some flexibility that I can, you know, go pick up my kids from school if I need to. I don't do it every day, but you know, when I need to, if I've got a babysitter conflict or whatever, I can do that. I don't have to take vacation to do it if I need to, if I do that now I want to make it up after they go to bed. If I need to finish out my day, that's okay. So to me, just being able to, I don't call it work life balance, I call it work life management, but being able to actually manage my life and some weeks it's, you know, 70, 80 hours of work and other weeks if it's a little less than 40, okay.
Erin Welken: In the end it, it has balanced me and that's probably the most important. Um, the other thing is just the environment I think that John Deere creates is really, really positive. So it's a very, um, kind of, I don't know what the right word is, but brought together culture so it's not highly competitive and it's really collaborative. So for me, I always enjoy meeting new people and I almost always have the feeling that we're mutually working towards a common cause and that's awesome. So I don't feel like, so he's going to undercut me. I mean it's, there's been maybe one or two in my, all of my time at John Deere that I've met people that you're like probably wouldn't trust you, but for the most part our leadership and the people that I get to work with are just phenomenal. So having that collaborative where you actually feel like you can make friends is really important to me.
Amanda Hammett: So would you say it's more of like a, almost almost like a family type environment?
Erin Welken: Yep, for sure.
Amanda Hammett: And is that something that you think comes down from the c suite down or is it like your direct leadership or what do you mean?
Erin Welken: Um, you know, I think it really starts from the top of our company to be completely transparent. There isn't a leader in our company that I wouldn't feel comfortable with. I mean just two or three weeks ago I was in the elevator with our presidents of level number two right below the CEO, two presidents. So we're, you know, how's North Carolina, things like that and it's just not weird. And they, they smile and they take the first initiative to say hello and it makes it okay for you to have a conversation and say, you know, even if it's just a nice to meet you as you go down one floor or something like that. But they, I think they do a lot to try to open the door and to give you face time and opportunities to meet with them, which is really nice.
Amanda Hammett: You know what I love that I was, I was just having a conversation with a major corporation recently and we were talking about getting the CEO out there more like with the, with the employees and, and he really was struggling because he was like, I'm, I'm very private. And it's like, well, even when you're in kind like the cafeteria, the Commons area you need, you need to be approachable and so we need to do something to bridge that for you. Um, because you know, it, it counts when it comes to turnover, when employees feel comfortable and when they feel like everybody is working with them, there are more, more likely to be loyal, they're more likely to be engaged and they're more likely to be productive. And that's a bottom line issue right there. So I love that. I love that. I love that a lot actually. So, and what gets me is that, I mean, you're a woman, you're at John Deere and, and you don't typically think of John Deere is this passion of women. But, but you had told me before that you were actually very involved with the, the women Erg Group.
Erin Welken: Yes. Yeah. We have a women in operations erd group, which I'm the vice chair of. It's actually led by a male right now. So we've been rotating that I'm female. But it's really interesting because for us, most of our leaders are male and so we're trying to get women in there, but we've realized that we need to have men as partners with. And so our women in operations group is really focused on trying to understand why women don't want to come into operations. And some of it is, it's very structured. It's not talked about flexibility just a little bit ago that is not typical operations, you know, you've got a production workforce that reports to you and things like that. Um, as women I think we put up a lot of barriers, so a lot of automatic barriers and says I can't because. And as I started talking to women about being an operations or operations jobs, which I think are phenomenal, I started hearing a lot of I can't and nothing drives me more crazy than I can.
Erin Welken: Even if I hear myself say I can't, then that's exactly what I want to do because it drives me crazy. And so the women in operations group has really been great for that. I would erds in general at John Deere are amazing development opportunities. And a good way to build your network. Um, even when we just moved to North Carolina, the first people that I reached out to you, what were the people that I met in women in operations because it, hey, I'm moving right now. I've got a job that travels about 50 percent, which I could do from North Carolina. So that's awesome. I had a boss that was like, you know, you've already got a network. I trust you. Um, we can, we can work with that. That's fine. You can work from there. But in the end we had kind of been working on a transition plan and what's next for me, which is another thing that transparency.
Erin Welken: Um, but I didn't wait for him to figure it out for me. I reached out and just the, hey, no, I move in if you guys know of anything or anyone let me know as I found jobs that were actually posted that looks interesting to me. So again, I took a little change from my traditional path, but hey, this one looks interesting. Who Do I know that knows that hiring manager? And it was my network that I built through our women in operations Erg, found a couple people. I don't know if he got really annoyed or decide I have to hire this girl because no, you know, these people aren't going to forgive me. My friends aren't going to forgive me if I don't know. But that's, that really helped me quite a bit. So the, whatever your passion is, having those Erg groups in that network that you meet, that you went to bed otherwise, that you would have never gotten to work with and then prove yourself to them as lead it, it builds a lot of bridges for you in the future.
Amanda Hammett: Yeah. That is amazing. And I love that you've had all these opportunities because yeah, your network, it speaks volumes about you. Um, alright. Is there anything that um, John Deere, you feel, just the environment that they've created, the culture that they've created, is there way you feel that they're really supporting you and behind you and really encapsulated that family feel for you?
Erin Welken: So. Well, one of the things I've been really lucky to have some amazing bosses. So first and foremost, they focus a lot on development. So I can go, we have a whole John Deere University go and take courses. We have individual development plans that you can get alignment from your manager on what are the things that you want to do, what are the things you want to do to develop yourself that. So just knowing that I have a lot of control over what I do and how I choose to develop myself as the first thing. Um, the second thing is I know that they're having talent are you views, so I know that the concept of you're going to be stuck in any job for five or 10 years is pretty low unless you want to. And there are definitely people that want to, which is fantastic, but just knowing that it is part of a regular cadence and review and you don't know what goes on behind closed doors or who says what, but you know, that people are talking and it gives you the thought that there is an opportunity for you tomove up.
Erin Welken: Um, but I also think it kind of goes with who knows you, you know, so if you've got people in the room and only one person's ever heard of you, yeah, absolutely. It makes a slop. And who wants this person or you know, who could use this doesn't work really well. I think all of the ways that you can, can generate that and build those relationships helps a lot and it would also within John Deere then with the erds and with the different conferences that we have and just different ways to meet people and get out there and get visibility to leadership is huge. I feel like you're part of something important and you feel like you have an opportunity.
Amanda Hammett: Very cool. Now there is something I do want to discuss and I do want to to put out there is that you actually do some really interesting work outside of John Deere, outside of all of your responsibilities with John Deere and your family. You, you actually are doing something else really special. And I'd like for you to share. I'd like for you to share with us what that is.
Erin Welken: So I was widowed at the age of 29, so I had married my best friend who was also my coach and my mentor. Luckily he was like personality opposite of mine, so we matched really well. Um, but he passed away in a car accident unexpectedly and we had, I have two daughters they work for and two at the time, so I was, you know, gone half the time with work and really career focused and I had to put the brakes on and try to understand who am I now and what, you know, what's really going to work and how do I do this. And so, um, on the career side it was a, you talked about learning curves and I could talk about that, but you know, how do you build resilience, how do you reshape your career and understand how to be a single mom when you were in a, a household, all of that stuff.
Erin Welken: It took a little while and I'm forever grateful to John Deere for all of the help that they gave me, which is another. I'm, I was really loyal before, but I think it even went up more, not just because of how amazing may were in the challenges that I had, but anyways, fast forward a little while and I realized that my biggest fear for my kids was their ability to have a good education, um, with me trying to work and trying to do everything. It just knew I couldn't be super woman. So how, how was I going to help them get an education so they can be successful and I'm lucky that I do have a good job, but not everybody does. In fact, I'm over 40 percent of widows under the age of 45, live in poverty, less people that have kids. So you thinking about those kids now I lost a parent, now they're in poverty when maybe they weren't before and we're expecting them to study and do well.
Erin Welken: So I just felt like there was a huge opportunity for these kids to fall through the gap. And so I created the young living foundation and what I do is work to bridge the gap for kids in there and meet their educational needs. Whatever age they are, so it's pretty exciting. It's really my passion to do that. And then to help fund that. I do some speaking around planning for the unexpected and even resilience at work and things like that. Basically talk about anything if you will give me a donation to help these kids. So, um, so that's what I do and that's really my fun thing and I schedule it early mornings before work and at lunchtime and after work and make it work. But at the same point John Deere is also really supportive of that. So volunteering in the community and getting out to the schools and things like that are all things that they very, very actively support through a number of different programs. And so, um, I really appreciate that. And we have a John your foundation that provides donations through multiple different avenues. Nails provide matches for us. So we feel like no matter what your passion is, you can make a difference in Dundee was there to help you.
Amanda Hammett: That's amazing. I love that. I, I do, I. That was one of the things that I was so taken with when I met you was just that, I mean that is, that is something that for a lot of people is such a scary thing, but you, you made it through that and obviously you had a wonderful support system, but you're like, you know what, not only did this happen to me, but I recognize this could happen to others and how can I help? And that's amazing. I mean, that's, I think what we're all here to do in one shape way or another. Well, fantastic. Well, Erin, is it okay if our audience wants to reach out to you on Linkedin?
Erin Welken: I would love it.
Amanda Hammett: Perfect and perfect. Well, is it also a, would it, would it be okay with you in the show notes if I also include maybe a link to your foundation?
Erin Welken: That'd be awesome as well. Yes.
Amanda Hammett: Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial rock star podcast and Aaron, thank you so much for being on with us and for being a rockstar. Of course. Thank you guys again and we will see you in the very next episode. Bye. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial Rockstar podcasts. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at AmandaHammett.com. The link is below. It's AmandaHammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 13: Building Loyalty Among Millennial Employees appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
How do you motivate millennial employees? That is a question I get all the time. Fortunately, this episode goes into detail about motivating millennial employees. Guest, Morgan J. Ingram is such a motivated millennial that he created a youtube video that shared the tips he used to get himself promoted. That video would eventually lead him to get a job offer out of the blue!
Morgan J Ingram is an Empowering Sales Teams To Become Prospecting Rockstars @JBarrows and the Host of #TheSDRChronicles. Check out his LinkedIn Profile here >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/morganjingram/
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Tweet *Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The Transcript - Motivating Millennial Employees **00:05 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Hey, good morning. This is Amanda Hammett. I'm known as the Millennial Translator®, because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And today's super millennial rockstar is Morgan J Ingram. Morgan, welcome to the show.
00:25 Morgan J. Ingram: Happy to be here.
00:26 AH: Hey, alright. So, Morgan here is a millennial rockstar through and through from the word go. I met you one time and you just like, blew my socks off. Just I was sitting in the back of the room and you were actually on a panel discussion, that's how you were the stand-out of this panel discussion. So Morgan is actually with JBarrows Sales Training and he is the Director of Sales Execution and Evolution. Did I get that right?
00:54 MI: You got it, you got it!
[laughter]
00:56 MI: You've got it. Congrats!
[laughter]
00:57 AH: I totally thought I was gonna butcher that, but okay.
[laughter]
01:01 AH: Alright, so Morgan. Tell us a little bit about you. What makes you a rockstar?
01:06 MI: Well, that's a very loaded question in itself. I would probably say it's my consistency to do what I need to do on a daily basis. I feel like that's what the summation of how I've gotten to the point where I'm at today. It really is just a lot of things that I've just done that a lot of people would never really know about, and if they asked, then I probably would tell them, but there's so much behind the scenes work that comes into getting to this level of just consistency. So I would definitely say it's just my intrinsic motivation and my drive, which stems from a lot of different things, and then also just showing up every single day, knowing that, "Hey, these are things I have to do, even though I may not like doing them sometimes."
01:43 AH: Oh that... And don't we all? We all have those things that we have to do all the time that we just don't love, but we gotta do it, man. You gotta bite the bullet.
01:51 MI: You have to do it.
01:52 AH: Alright. So you've touched a little bit on this, but I really wanna dig into this. What is it that's really, you have found has worked for you in your career path so far? 'Cause I know you're very early into your career path, correct?
02:06 MI: Yeah, yeah.
[laughter]
02:09 MI: So I gotta ask a question on top of that, so...
[laughter]
02:12 MI: But no, because it's like what exactly is that what the question is? Is it what's helped me out this year, last year, when I first started out, when I was in college? 'Cause there's all different types of answers for that one.
02:23 AH: Absolutely, so that's a fair question. So here's the thing that the audience probably doesn't know about you, is that you are a massive reader. And not only are you a massive reader, but you also take what you read and you actually implement which I think actually makes you different. So tell us a little bit about what's working for you right now, and then we'll backtrack in just a second and talk about what really, at the very beginning when you were leaving college and going into your career, what actually set you up to succeed. What's working for you now?
02:54 MI: So right now, there's two things. One is my attention to detail and my process and organization. That's one thing that I really have struggled with a lot in the past, 'cause I don't really... I don't too much care for it. I just wanna do what I need to do, but I've realized that now there's so many different things I have to hit that I can't do them without any organization or process. So I'd probably say that's probably led to a lot more of my success, and then also leveraging different factors to get things done. So I have different people that I could talk to to give me advice. So I have a personal trainer, and so he'll tell me like, "Hey, these are things you need to do." 'Cause for me to go figure all that stuff out, I could figure it out, but that's a lot of time for me to figure out workouts and then figure out like, "Okay, what do I need to eat? How do I need to continuously have a lot of energy?" I could go look that up, but that's a lot of time. So I have someone who helps me out with that.
03:43 MI: I also have... I go look at different types of content and I can aggregate it with maybe some people may help me out with that, like, "Hey, look. This is how you break down this content," with different tools that maybe I don't actively know where they're at, but I always ask for help. I feel like that's one big thing that's helped me out a lot, is just that number two point, finding people who can help you out with certain things that are gonna basically help you moving forward 'cause you're not spending a lot of time doing things that don't matter, and also asking people for help who've already done it. So for example, I just had an Amazon Alexa Skill drop. I wanted to do that for a while, but me going to figure out how to develop it would have been a disaster. So I had a friend who develops Alexa Skills and I was like, "Alright, I got the content. Just help me out." So we developed the skill, and it's things of that nature, like trying to figure out all different types of things on how I can focus on the things that matter the most, and then find people who can help me with things that would take me a long time to figure out who already know the answer. So I think those two things help me out a lot.
04:41 AH: Absolutely, and I think that that goes in nicely with your t-shirt that you're wearing today, "Staying Focused." Yeah, 'cause man, you gotta focus on what you're good at, and let your other people that you know, you gotta leverage their skills and let them do what they're good at, like your friend with the Alexa Skill.
04:54 MI: Yeah, exactly.
04:56 AH: And we're gonna actually put a link to your Alexa Skill in the show notes, so that other people can experience it as well.
05:03 MI: For sure.
05:03 AH: Alright, so let's backtrack then, and say this is what you are doing now that's been helpful, but what was actually, when you were leaving college, so... And how long ago was that? Not very long.
05:16 MI: Three years ago.
[laughter]
05:17 AH: Alright, three years ago, Morgan is leaving college. What was it that set you up for success in those last days of college into your very first six, nine months into the working world?
05:30 MI: I think it's because I just got really crazy. And so, what... [chuckle] This is what this means. Everyone's like, "What the heck does that mean?"
[laughter]
05:36 MI: So, what it means is that I just started doing everything that I thought I could do. So I just started going out there and executing. And I feel like that's what set me apart from everybody else. Everybody else was waiting or had a job, and they didn't feel like they could do anything. I just told myself, "I don't care what anyone says. I'm gonna do some crazy stuff, and we're gonna see what happens." So that came to creating content. Periscope back in the day, live streaming, did a ton of that, going to different conferences and just soaking information from the speakers, just trying to do public speaking, like reading tons of books that I probably didn't have the knowledge going in to reading those books that I could actually absorb that information.
06:15 AH: Right.
06:16 MI: And then just reading, like you mentioned, I read a ton of books, and just like if it said, "Do this," I would go do it. I never questioned the author or the video and I feel like that's... A lot of people do that. A lot of people question the author, a lot of people question the video that they're watching and then they don't execute. But my thing was like, they're talking about something they have more success than me, so like... And I don't have anything right now, so I might as well take action on it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but if it does, it puts me ahead of everybody else. I was willing to not listen to everybody and just do my own thing, which has cultivated to where I'm at today, but I think that's a lot... I think that's hard for a lot of people to move past the... I like to call it the... Not the fans, but the audience. This goes back to sports, a lot of people don't understand how hard it is to be an athlete, especially at a college and pro level. I've never been at that level, but I know hard it is 'cause I've friends who are in the... Both those levels and the work that they put in is way more work than most people realize, it's not easy as most people think.
07:11 AH: Oh yeah.
07:12 MI: And so, but you also have to realize that those people who are in the stands are gonna say certain things because they're not in the playing field. So I think it's the same thing applies to when you wanna go do something, for me. There was a lot of people in the audience who were like, "Oh, that doesn't make sense. I don't get it," da, da, da. But I had a vision and I knew if I just executed, eventually some things would pan out and they'd work, and so that's where... That's where I stand today.
07:32 AH: Absolutely, I couldn't agree with that more. There's so many times where in my career, people have been like, "Why are you doing that? That's ridiculous." But for me, the path didn't always make sense to other people and it was never exactly linear, but it was just little bits of pieces of information and experience all along the way, that has built to where I am today. So it's been incredible. So yeah, absolutely do that, do that, 100%.
08:00 MI: Exactly.
08:01 AH: Fantastic. Alright, so, Morgan, you mentioned this just a second ago. You found out something, like you watched a video or you read a book and you tried things. And that's what I love, is that you are trying things and you're putting things out there. But you also mentioned that there were some things that maybe didn't work. So give us an example, what did not work for you? Not that it wouldn't work for someone else but maybe what didn't work for you?
08:27 MI: So when I started a company in college, hosting video game tournaments on college campuses, I found myself as a CEO. I had no idea what that even meant, but I thought it'd be cool, so that's why I did it. I was like, "Let's just try it, like I don't know what's gonna happen." So I didn't have any funding advisors, mentors, board of directors, nothing. It was just me. And so obviously, when things started to scale and work, people wanted to join the team, and I feel like biggest mistake that I had is I wasn't a good leader back then. I got people to buy in the vision, that was very easy for me to do. But I did not let people do what they did best. So if someone did something and I didn't like it, I'd be like, "No, okay, I'm gonna take over this now. You go do something else". And so it eventually got to the point where I was doing everything and I was complaining about it, but I wasn't giving people the chance to actually do the things that I told them to do, because I wanted everything to be perfect, 'cause I used to be a perfectionist. But I'm not like that anymore, but I used to like, every single thing had to be perfect, or I'm upset, and I'm stressed out about it, which is probably one of my biggest drawbacks, 'cause I want everything to work according to how I see it.
09:33 AH: Course. I mean, I think that's... That's human nature, Morgan, I know. [chuckle]
09:37 MI: No. Most people aren't like that. Most people are like, "Whatever." Me, it's... It's more deep than people realize. It gets like, these are not to the T of how I mapped them out, then I'm upset and that's how it used to be, but I had to get over that, so. Yeah so that was a big mistake. I think another thing is going to networking events and immediately trying to push my business card on people. I tried to do that initially 'cause I was like, I'm... Especially when I was in college, I was like, I'm at these things, I'm at these events, and I'm the only person in college here for the most part, so I feel like the only way people are gonna recognize who I was is if I immediately push my card on them. But at the end of the day it doesn't really work, it's... The big thing is building the relationship, and now what I do is I don't even pull out my business card until, unless someone asks or I'm leaving and I didn't get contact information, then yeah, I'll ask. But for the most part, I build that relationship first to feel like the reason I can ask for that business card, that next step or whatever we're trying to do moving forward. So really those are things I definitely made mistakes on. I think those things can mess you up drastically because if you keep doing those things over and over again, it's gonna affect you in the long run and people won't wanna work with you and then people don't wanna connect with you.
10:41 AH: Oh, I agree with you whole-heartedly. I actually... So I created a training series for college and early career people. And one of the big things is we talk about is in-person networking, and not just throwing your cards out, to actually build that relationship, have a conversation and create a reason to follow up with people. Just a reason why they would wanna follow up with you. And it's just, it's amazing, I still see adults well into their career just coming up and just throwing cards and I'm like, "I'm gonna remember you, but it's not gonna be for anything good."
11:19 MI: There's another big thing too. This is what I had to realize really quick, which I don't have this anymore, but I used to watch videos and I used to read books, and because I can absorb information so well I would started mimicking that person. So I would start saying stuff that they say, and I would start having the verbiage and the attitude and the tone that they have. So, like my... So, making videos or making any content, I used to write and do videos like other people.
11:42 AH: Right.
11:42 MI: Because I didn't know my own style yet. And I feel like that's so... That's really dangerous, because obviously, people are gonna see you as that person and you're not gonna be able to reach the real level that you're supposed to reach. So that's one thing I had to completely flush out. All the stuff I do now is completely innate and originality of who I am as a person, but before I watched those videos I was like, "Oh that's amazing!" And I'll like have this same attitude and approach as it.
12:05 AH: Wow.
12:06 MI: And looking back on it, it's kind of bad, but you're gonna have to move past that point. I think a lot of... That stops a lot of people from going forward.
12:12 AH: Yeah, I think that's a big deal, because you actually... So, I want brag on Morgan for just a second. He's not bragging on him, this is me. But Morgan actually has a video series that comes out through LinkedIn called "The SDR Chronicles." And he goes in and he talks about various things that he does as an inside sales rep to build up these different skills and trying new things. And I don't know how often you put them out, but I see them on LinkedIn quite a bit.
12:44 MI: So I did... When I first started it was four to five months every single day I did it, and then... [laughter] Guys, I'm crazy, guys. [laughter] And then after that I slowed down because there was a... I got promoted and I had a different initiative. So I only do it... I only do it weekly now, because there's lots going on now. But it's every single week something's coming out.
13:04 AH: That's awesome, and it's fantastic information and it's just little bits and pieces, and sometimes a lot of times in those roles in particular, if you can just tweak things in just the tiniest way, it makes all the difference in the world.
13:17 MI: Right, exactly.
13:18 AH: That's fantastic, that's fantastic. Alright, so we might've touched on this before, but I want to really like dig in, especially for a younger audience member. Were there any major reality checks that you faced moving from college into the working world? Like the way that you saw how your career was gonna be, and then you got into the real world and you were like, "Oh that's not how that is."
13:44 MI: So for me, there was not a lot of blindside-ness. And all... This is the reason why it wasn't a blindsided as most people are, is because I had informational interviews almost every single day for the most part, or almost every single week from my... Yeah, from like my spring semester of my freshman year all the way to senior year.
14:06 AH: Oh, wow.
14:07 MI: So what that means for people who don't know what I'm talking about, is it's when you reach out to someone that you want to talk to, and you say, "Hey, can I get 15 to 20 minutes to just talk to you about your job?" And then you have questions before that. So the very first personal development book I ever read, my mom gave it to me and it was called "How to Get Your Dream Job" by Pete Leibman. The book is still out there. I'm pretty sure Amanda will put it in the show notes, so you guys can go read that, but it has templates in there of how to reach out to high-level executive people, to get 15, 20 minutes of their time. So, for those of you who are like, "Oh, this doesn't work, Morgan." It does work. So these are the people I talked to, and I still have no idea why they even answered the e-mail [chuckle] but they answered. So the owner of Atlanta Hawks, the General Manager of Fox Sports South, the Vice President of Sales at the NBA, and the President and the owner of the college football Hall Sports Of Fame. And there's a ton of other... There's tons of other people I connected with along the way because they were like... They introduced me to other people, but the reason I say that is because they gave me so much advice on how to be successful and so much advice on how to start my career that when I got in my first job, I knew exactly what I needed to do. I knew the steps I needed to take, I just needed to execute. If I didn't do it, it would be on my own.
15:15 MI: And they said, "Hey look, we're gonna give you this information... " And part of the reason why I create content was like, "If you don't share the information that we're giving to you, this conversation is a waste. We're actually going to be really upset with you." So I was like, "Okay, I don't want these people to be upset with me, I want to be able to give out advice here," so that's why I create a lot of content. 'Cause I have just been given so much knowledge from people who were way more successful than me, at this current point in their careers, and that's how I got myself in... That's how I, when I got in there. And I think the biggest piece of advice for a lot of people is that you have to talk to everyone in your organization, and you just have to be willing. What are those extra projects that people don't want to do that you can take on? And that's what I did when I got to Terminus, I just... I knew... I talked to every single person, CEO, CTO, co-founders, all the directors and the executives. Obviously, this was start-up so it's different for most people, but what I'm saying is that you have to take the initiative to go talk to those people and figure out what they want, and then just execute, and then do something outside of work that's gonna catapult you to where you want to go. So that's just kind of the advice I got before I even started any job.
16:15 AH: That's amazing. That is amazing. Good for you. Good for you for, again, reading those books...
16:21 MI: Reading the books.
16:22 AH: Executing on implementing what is suggested.
16:26 MI: Yep.
16:26 AH: Because, again, I think that that puts you in like the five percentile. Only 5% of people will do that, I think. That's crazy. Good for you, good for you. So is there anything, either at your current company right now, which is JBarrows Sales Training, or a previous company, is there anything that they have done that keeps you motivated and engaged and wanting to be productive? I mean today, we're talking, it's 8:00 AM on a rainy, rainy Monday.
[laughter]
16:52 AH: What is it that drives you to jump out of bed and be like, "Hey let's... Let's do some sales today!"
16:58 MI: Yeah. [laughter] So, for me there's nothing, honestly, anybody can do externally to motivate me any more than I'm already motivated right now.
17:06 AH: Yes.
17:07 MI: My internal motivation is just off the charts. So...
17:10 AH: It is.
[laughter]
17:10 MI: But the thing is, it's not going to be like that for most people. And I 100% understand that. So the answer to your question, like, straight up, is like, no, there's not much anyone can really do to motivate me anymore. I know my goals, I know what what I can do. It's really up to me to figure out where I'm at if I'm not motivated sometimes. I would say, from... The biggest thing for me, though, is when people allow me to just do my thing. And that means that if I have an idea, they let me execute on that idea. Now there are some ideas I have that are really not that smart, and people have to talk me out of doing them because they're like, "That's actually," either, "Too much energy and time and you're thinking way too complicated about it," or like, "That's just not a good idea at this moment. Let's revisit it." But I would say a good amount of the time, John, who's the CEO, he allows me to do a lot of creative things moving forward.
18:00 MI: So like the Alexa Skill that I just dropped. He was the person that I was like, "Hey, look, let's drop an Alexa Skill, I can figure it out." And he was like, "Yeah, go ahead and do it." Most... Many, most managers, most leaders, most CEOs would not allow you to do something like that, 'cause it's like, "Oh, that's not what we're focused on right now." But he was like, "No, that's actually something that we can focus on and I want you to go ahead and figure that out and do it." So there's a lot of ideas that I have that he allows me to do, and that makes me more motivated to be more creative, 'cause what ends up happening is that if you have a lot of creative ideas and people keep shutting you down, you're not gonna share those ideas anymore, and you're probably gonna go execute it by yourself, which can cause conflict internally with the organization that you're at. So I'm just really fortunate that I have someone who allows me to continuously do that. For me, again, it's intrinsic motivation, so there again, there's not a lot that people can be like, "Oh, Morgan, we're gonna give you this," like, I'd be like, "Okay, cool." Like, it doesn't matter to me 'cause that's not what I'm motivated on, I don't need that.
18:51 AH: Right. You know, you said something really interesting and I just wanna commend your boss. I don't know him, but I just wanna commend him from here, in that he saw something in you and he saw that you are an innovator and that you see the world a little bit different and that you're willing to think outside the box, and he's continuing to encourage you. A lot of times, what I see is the opposite. It's like, "Oh, we want these millennials because they're innovative thinkers," but then they want to form-fit them into a box and then they wonder why they're not innovative or why they're leaving and becoming innovative somewhere else, and it's like, "Really? Is this your question?" [chuckle] So yeah, I'm just super thrilled to hear that not only did he see that in you, but he's allowing you the bandwidth to do that. That's fantastic.
19:41 MI: Yeah.
19:42 AH: Because if he didn't, I mean you'd just go somewhere else and do it.
[laughter]
19:46 MI: Yeah, probably so.
19:47 AH: I mean, I'm just... I'm being real. He knows what he's got and he's protecting it, basically, in a lot of ways. He's giving you the runway.
19:57 MI: Yeah.
19:57 AH: And that's fantastic, I love that. I love that, that's what good bosses do.
20:01 MI: Yeah 100%.
20:02 AH: Alright, so what is it that actually made you stand out to your current boss when you were... When this position opened that you're in currently, what was it that made you stand out in the application?
20:16 MI: Yeah, so he can tell you, he'll tell you himself if you ever get a chance to meet him. He did not want to hire anyone. He actually... This was a thing that he did not want to do at all. He didn't wanna do it.
20:26 AH: Wow.
20:27 MI: So it's kind of intriguing, 'cause I wasn't actively trying to go work with John Barrows, so it wasn't even on my radar. Like, I tell loads of people I'd probably still be at Terminus today if John hadn't reached out to me, I'd still be doing my thing, 'cause I really enjoyed working there and I had a lot of great friends there, and it was a great environment to be a part of. So, yeah, this wasn't something that... He didn't send a application out, there was no interviews, we didn't... It wasn't even really an interview process, it was just like, "Do you wanna do this or not, and how can we make this work?" This was like no... There was no resume, there was no interview, it was just trying to figure out how we're gonna make this work, 'cause there's so many factors that go into this 'cause it's a completely different career path. So big thing that stood out to him was that I was consistent, one, so he didn't... He doesn't have to worry about my work ethic, 'cause he just saw that I kept showing up and showing up, showing up. But big thing was a video that he found through YouTube. So he found me, there was a video when I got promoted, so it was February 1st of last year, and it was a video of me explaining, "Here are the five things that I did to get promoted, and this is what everyone else can do to accelerate their career."
21:29 MI: So, I did this video, and it's a pretty lengthy video but it's probably one of my most watched videos because it's just, I go into detail of like how this actually all came to be. And so he watched that video, it really resonated with him 'cause he has core values, and the things I was talking about aligned with his core values. So he was like, "I guess I might have to hire this kid. I might have to go talk to him." So we ran into each other at a conference, we had a conversation about it, and it all came down to be like, this is a good opportunity for both of us, and that's what happened.
22:00 AH: That's amazing. I mean, you got him to go from, "I don't wanna hire anybody," to, "I gotta hire this kid."
22:07 MI: Yeah. That's pretty... That's how it all panned out. [chuckle]
22:10 AH: That's awesome. I actually... I want to include a link to that YouTube video that you just referenced on the five things you did to get promoted. I think that that would be... I think that'd be good for everyone to see.
22:21 MI: Yeah. Yeah.
22:21 AH: Fantastic. Oh, that's awesome. That is fantastic. Now, since you are on the younger side of the... In the work world, in the working world, what is it that you wish companies knew about hiring younger employees?
22:38 MI: I think it goes back to what I talked about with what I just said with John, I think people just need to understand that there's a lot of great ideas out there and you need to flesh those out and figure out which ones are good and which ones are bad. Again, not every single idea that I say is gonna be great. I know that, there's some terrible ideas that I've come... That I was like, "Oh, this is amazing," and it's like, "No, that's not." So you've to, as a leader, you have to be able to shift it out, but I think you have to allow people to have that voice, have that vision, because, again, what ends up happening is that there's always gonna be someone who's gonna allow that person to do what they really wanna do, and then that person's gonna leave your organization. And then you're like, "What happened?" It's like, "Well, you should have been paying attention to what's going on." So I think you just have to soak in what they're saying, take it in stride, and then figure out how you can empower them.
23:17 MI: And then a big thing is that everyone just wants to feel like they're wanted. That's really just a big thing with the younger workforce, they want to be able to have a voice, and when that voice is heard, they're... Someone's actually taking action on what they're saying, or they're being allowed to do whatever gratifies them at the end of the day. I don't know what that is, but there always is that one thing that they wanna do. Maybe that is a part of the workplace, but it's really not at the same time. I think you just have to be able to let people do what they need to do and not pigeonhole them to one thing.
23:47 AH: Absolutely. Absolutely. Not put them in that little box and keep them there.
23:50 MI: Yeah, no, that's not what you need to do. [chuckle]
23:53 AH: Yeah, absolutely, fantastic. Well, Morgan, I just wanna say thank you so much for being on the show today. You've included a bunch of fantastic little nuggets of information, and for those of you guys watching the video today, we're gonna be including in the show notes everything that Morgan had referenced, whether it's the Alexa Skill or the YouTube video that got him his current job.
24:17 MI: Yeah.
24:18 AH: Or even, I think he mentioned a book about how to get your dream job. We're gonna link over to that as well. So Morgan, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for being on the show and thank you guys for watching and we'll see you next time. Bye.
24:32 MI: See you guys.
24:33 AH: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below. It's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis. Because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
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Every company realizes the importance and impact of the millennial generation. And every company wants to hire ROCKSTAR millennials. But at the end of the day, is your workplace culture truly one in which millennials can be successful?
Rakhi Voria is a Director at IBM Global Digital Sales | Forbes Contributor | Speaker ~ Passionate about advancing women & millennials in the biz. She manages a team that is responsible for the strategy, implementation, and revenue of the Digital Development Representative sales function globally. These are digitally enabled sellers that drive client engagement, deal progression, and closure of select deals.
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The Transcript - Where Passion Meets Drive Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the millennial Rockstar podcast.
Amanda Hammett: All right, so today's Rockstar is rocky for from Microsoft, and the thing that you're going to notice right off the bat with rocky is that she's incredibly intelligent, articulate, and passionate, and one of the things that Microsoft has done for her is that they've given her a platform in which, which to share her passions, which happened to be women and millennials. So tune in and see what rocky has to share with us today. Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and today's episode of the Millennial Rock Star podcast has a very special guest because this is Rakhi Voria on the rock star podcast. Rocky, welcome to the show.
Rakhi Voria: Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Amanda Hammett: Awesome. So Rakhi actually is coming to us from Microsoft's headquarters in Seattle right now, correct?
Rakhi Voria: Correct.
Amanda Hammett: All right, so you're actually at home and not traveling the world like normal.
Rakhi Voria: Yeah, for once.
Amanda Hammett: Wonderful. So Rocky, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about what makes you a rockstar.
Rakhi Voria:Sure. Okay. Well, a little bit about me and my background. I grew up in Colorado, went to Colorado College, and then I went to the University of Oxford for graduate school and it was there actually that I came in contact with a Microsoft recruiter and now I'm working at Microsoft for six years. So I'm like many millennials. I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to do after school. All I knew was that I had an interest in business and what I loved about Microsoft was that it offered so many options and experiences. I mean, there were product spanning across consumer and enterprise. There were offices all over the world, there were jobs in every business function imaginable. And so as someone starting off fresh in the working world, all of those options and experiences were just different possibilities for me, which was really exciting. Um, so I've been at Microsoft, as I said now for six years, I've worked on three different teams.
Rakhi Voria: I started in a licensing role, then I moved to a business development role supporting the financing organization. Um, and today I'm a chief of staff to our corporate vice president of inside sales, which has been a lot of fun because it's an exciting part of the company. It's pretty much a brand new organization. I was one of the first employees two years ago and now we have 1800 people globally across eight different sales center, so it's been an amazing experience for me as someone who's relatively new to the workforce to be part of building something new and having the chance to see all the nuts and bolts of running a business.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. That's been a really major build that you guys have done and I've been really impressed kind of watching from the outside what you've done. So on top of everything else that you're doing at Microsoft, you also have some side hustles that you're doing, so why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
Rakhi Voria: Yes. In addition to my day, I'm. The first is I coach here, the women at Microsoft board, which is basically our company wide women's organization here, which is focused around attracting, advancing and retaining women. I'm super passionate about advancing women in business. It's been a common theme throughout my life. I grew up with my single mom. I spent time in India during my undergraduate, um, researching on women's empowerment for my college thesis. I wrote my master's dissertation on Female Employment Policies in China and India. So basically leading women at Microsoft has been a great way for me to continue exercising that passion internally at Microsoft, but it's also given me a really great platform to create connections across different companies to help move the needle for women. So that's the first one. My second side hustle, I guess as I write regular articles for Forbes, I'm, I'm a member of the Forbes Business Development Council. And so as part of that I provide some quotes and expertise on sales and business development topics and I also have the opportunity to write my own articles. So if you look up you'll see that they're primarily focused on actually tips for millennials and for women. And so it's been a lot of fun. I encourage people to read and comment and share.
Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely. I actually, I shared one of your latest articles about why more women need to get into sales on my linkedin profile and I had, uh, several young women that I mentor or that I've met throughout the years, reach out to me and say, Hey, can we talk about this? And I'm like, yes we can. So thank you for spring that conversation. That's awesome. So, all right, you walked us through kind of high level your background. So tell us a little bit about what's worked for you throughout your career so far.
Rakhi Voria: I would say that there are probably three specific things that come to mind here. I think number one, one of the first things that's worked for me is I work for a company that doesn't require me to leave my passions at home. You just heard a little bit about what some of those are. It's a advancing women and millennials. It's writing and as you heard, I've found ways to be able to do those things in addition to my day job, both inside and outside of Microsoft. And I've also had managers who have supported these efforts and I think that's something that's really important to millennials because unlike previous generations who wanted work life balance and the separation, millennials actually want work life integration. We want to bring our whole self to work. We want to have personal relationships with our coworkers. We want to share our passions in the workplace.
Rakhi Voria: So I think it's really important for companies to find ways to foster an environment that's really conducive to that. Um, the second thing that I would say is, um, I think what's worked well for me is I haven't been shy to kind of leverage my unique qualities and use them to my advantage when I first entered the workforce. Actually, there were certain people who told me, you know, maybe you should hide your age to gain credibility, um, you know, act like a man because technology is such a male dominated field. And I sort of asked myself why, what's so bad about being younger? What's so bad about being a woman? I mean, I think, in fact, those qualities actually have helped me contribute even more at work. Um, so I, I think that, you know, as a millennial who's relatively new to the workforce, I actually offer a really fresh perspective that allows me to change the business and look at things differently and that's what I've done over the past six years at Microsoft.
Rakhi Voria: In fact, we actually started a cross generation mentoring program which we proactively pair of millennials, what senior leaders for this very reason and we've all heard the statistics that millennials are going to make up 50 percent of the workforce in the next two years. So I think it's about time we start to really understand what are some of the millennials strengths around being well connected and tech savvy and energetic. And then I guess the last thing that I would say that's worked well for me. I think it's all about being really proactive in learning the jobs that I've had. Networking, building my brand. I think in my first year at Microsoft I did probably a hundred different informational meetings with people, so probably one to two meetings with different people every week. And I just wanted to learn more about what do they do on a day to day basis and what's their background and walk me through your career development and not only did I learn from those meetings, but um, it really helped me get a chance to meet with a lot of different people across different parts of the company in the world. And those are relationships that I've definitely leveraged as I've sort of continued in my career path. So I always encourage people that I mentor, um, be really proactive and get out there because it's super easy to stay siloed within your organization. But it's way better for the long run if you kind of take the initiative.
Amanda Hammett: That's great. Well, I can just speak from my experience with you is that you have, you and I have been involved with the same organization that's international and you have leverage that and you are incredibly networked within that organization. And when I first came into it everybody was like, Oh, have you met rocky? And I'm like, I haven't, but I. But your, your reputation preceded you things. So, um, obviously you talked a lot about some things that have worked for you. I would imagine there might have been a bumper to in the road so far these six years in. Tell us about that.
Rakhi Voria: Definitely. Um, you know, I would have to say that I think what hasn't worked for me actually is saying yes to everything. So millennials we're known for seizing opportunities, right? So I would definitely say that I was like that earlier on in my career and I still am. But back then I would say yes to everything. If there was a stretch project and the organization, I would raise my hand for that. Uh, if the team needed volunteers for a special assignment, I will raise my hand for that. So I was just super eager I think, and I wanted to get involved in everything so I could learn as much as I could and be someone who was known to be willing to do anything to help contribute to them. And then I suddenly saw myself getting pulled into everything and I got some really good coaching for my manager at the time, about a year working into Microsoft and he told me, look Rakhi, when you're doing a good job, everybody is gonna want you to help and to be on your team like you've proven yourself now you get to decide what you take on the really strategic about the give get.
Rakhi Voria: And you know, if someone asks you to do something it's okay to first say, what am I going to get out of this? Or at least think through it. Right? So this coaching is something that I am so thankful for it. I think about it even today because you know, he was right. I mean now I'm not, I'm not saying if you're a millennial, 60 days into role, if your manager asks you to do something you should say, what am I going to get out of it? I mean, you definitely need to use your judgment, but I think his principal, right? And I wish I had kind of learned that a little bit earlier because you know, it would help me be a little bit more focused and understand where I was spending my time and put it in the right efforts.
Amanda Hammett: Oh, that is such good advice. I mean, I think that there are some people further along in their careers that could use that advice. So. Fantastic. Alright. So you mentioned a little bit about this particular manager and how he, he saw you potentially struggling a little bit and so he helped you through that. Were there other, any, any other mentors or managers that you've had that have helped you or have done anything in particular that really keeps you engaged and motivated and ready to wake up every day regardless of what country you're in saying, all right, let's, let's move Microsoft forward.
Rakhi Voria: I mean, as it relates to your question around mentors, for me, I've definitely surrounded myself with a really solid set of mentors. I kind of have a board of advisors that I call them, consists of a mix of people. Of course it's my formal manager, but then it's also a set of executives across the company who I look to for career advice or peers that I looked to for on the job advice or some days it's my mom who grew up in a very different world and started her own business or a friend and a completely different industry to provide just a completely new and different perspective. So I can't stress the importance of having all of these people, I guess, in your inner circle to guide, provide counsel as you navigate through some of the stumbling blocks. Um, one thing in particular actually that's been really valuable to me over the past year is having a formal executive coach.
Rakhi Voria: So about a year ago, um, Microsoft invested in me having an external coach. So this is a professional who is trained in coaching. I'm emerging and senior leaders and it's made a pretty impact I'd say on me because my coach has so much experience just helping people negotiate, communicate at the highest level. So, um, you know, since working with her I've been promoted, I've moved into people manager role and I think part of it it's just she's really helped me have the right conversations with my manager in order to make these things happen and you know, it's great to have a variety of mentors in your life that this is actually the first time I've had a formal like external coach and it's been really valuable to have someone with an outside perspective and also the formal training to help me navigate through some of these issues and challenges.
Amanda Hammett: That is fantastic. I have a bunch of questions that I'm just like, oh, which one do I go to first? Okay. So let me, let me circle back for a second before I go to your executive coach. Let me circle back to your board of advisors that you mentioned a few obvious people like your mom and, and, and people like that. Um, but what about the people within your, within Microsoft that are senior leaders, how did you approach them to walk us through what that looked like and how did you put this together?
Rakhi Voria: Yeah, definitely. I mean I would say that I just sort of reached out to people really if there's a funny story that my first boss always likes to tell, he's like rocky's not afraid to ask anybody for time because when I was at Microsoft when my first week I actually ran into our chief marketing officer, like literally physically ran out into each other, walking out of the bathroom, just randomly struck up a conversation. He was extremely kind and welcoming, knowing that it was my first week at the company and at the end of it, you know, he kind of said, well, if you want to chat about anything or need any advice, feel free to reach out any time. And I'm sure that was just sort of like a nice blanket thing that he says to anyone. But I said, well, he offered me his time, so why don't I just reach out to him?
Rakhi Voria: So I did. I sent him a note and I said, you know, thanks so much for the quick chat. I would love to pick your brain. As I'm new to the company. I want to learn a little bit more about how I can make an immediate impact and get your coaching since you've navigated well through your career. Would you mind if I grab 30 minutes of your time? And he said absolutely. Yeah. And I think it's just, it's a funny story because I mean like wide eyed millennial. I didn't even think like, oh, this guy is our chief marketing officer. He's totally out of reach. I just thought, you know, this is someone who's clearly spent some time, I'm investing in others and it sounds like he's open to a conversation. So why not seize the opportunity? And I think that's one of the things that I've just sort of done along the way as I mentioned, being proactive. I mean, um, it, it definitely, I've definitely noticed there are a lot of people at Microsoft who are very willing to give you their time and people outside of Microsoft to all you have to do is ask. And I don't think I've ever been told no to a meeting. So I've really encouraged. A lot of people just don't be afraid. Take the risk, ask them for a meeting if they say no, whatever, they're probably not going to remember you anyways, but at least you tried.
Amanda Hammett: That is such great advice. I that. I love that. I love that. I, I do hear a lot, especially when I'm on college campuses and I'm talking to students about, hey, you know, why don't you set up some informational interviews, you know, as you're, as you're getting going, oh, I don't know. I don't know, and I'm like, you need to this, this will help you. I promise. So I thank you. I'm gonna. Take that, snip it out. Not going to send it to me.
Rakhi Voria: Absolutely.
Amanda Hammett: So tell us a little bit about the culture within. I'm Microsoft, I'm obviously everybody hears all the stories and reads the articles, but tell us a little bit about the culture within Microsoft as a whole, but also I'd like to hear a little bit about the, the interesting culture or subculture that your particular team has.
Rakhi Voria: Definitely think there are a couple of. There are a couple things that probably come to mind here. For me, as I think about Microsoft first, Microsoft is a really great job of reminding me that what we're doing is truly changing the world and that's really important to me and most millennials because we really want to make a difference. There was a recent study by a group called the intelligent group. They focus on youth preferences and it showed that 64 percent of millennials say it's a priority to make the world a better place. So, um, it's definitely something that I thought about is I was exploring company is straight after graduate school and I wanted to work at a company that was changing the world and I saw that Microsoft was technology. So I think it's really important for companies to, to really tie their mission, I guess, to societal contribution and for managers to constantly remind millennials that the work that they're doing actually ties to something that is making a difference.
Rakhi Voria: So that's one of the things I've really enjoyed about Microsoft. I think the other thing I would say is, is really variety that I think has kept me engaged. Um, as I mentioned earlier, I targeted a job at a company like Microsoft because I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do and Microsoft offered a plethora of options and experiences and uh, when I first started here I very quickly threw out the idea of a career ladder and I instead focused on gaining a set of skills and experiences that I think would set me up for the long run. Um, and so as I mentioned, I've been able to differentiate my experiences by having rules and sales and business development and finance and I've sort of almost been able to create kind of like a liberal arts experience for myself here at Microsoft and sort of a portfolio career I guess.
Rakhi Voria: But you know, millennials, a lot of people refer to us as the job hopping generation. And I think just having this type of environment where variety is offered is really important to us because we want to take on new challenges. We sometimes want to take on horizontal challenges but still grow vertically at the same time. And Microsoft has done a great job of kind of allowing me to do that. And it's really interesting because I think as I think about some of the previous generations, a lot of people just sort of chose a career path and they work their way up, but that's not really of interest to most millennials, I'd say. I think we'd want to differentiate our experiences, we want to try new things, develop new skills, and Microsoft has really fostered a culture. I've been able to do all of those things.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So talk a little bit now about your particular team and what you guys have built.
Rakhi Voria: Yeah. So inside sales, as I mentioned, it's a brand new organization at Microsoft. Um, much of our workforce is actually millennial. Much of our workforce is also senior, so we have a pretty diverse mix of people all over the world. Uh, I think what's unique about inside sales actually is that 70 percent of our organization was hired as externally. Um, so we had just an amazing opportunity to really build a culture from scratch by taking all of these experiences from people who have worked at some of the best companies in the industry, bringing them here, taking some talent who have been at Microsoft for a long time and then thinking through like, what do we want to do with all of that and how are we going to build the right culture? And um, fortunately I work for a leader who's really passionate about this topic as well.
Rakhi Voria: And so, um, we spend a lot of time thinking through how are we making inside sales the best place to work and grow. And we have a lot of people related initiatives, many of which I actually lead myself. So I started a group called the people first ambassadors where we have basically different inside sellers and managers all over the world who are representing the voice of inside sales. And like I said, just making it a better place to work and grow by developing different initiatives and plans and programs and offering different perks and experiences. But it's been really amazing because I think I'm,
Rakhi Voria: I think it could have gone one of two ways. Um, you know, you hire all these people and you don't give them the right infrastructure. Support may not pan out as you would have liked, but I've had the chance to go to all eight of our sales centers over the past six to eight months and I can definitely say that the culture is the same everywhere. And I think part of that it's just really intentional about it, which is exciting,
Amanda Hammett: but is that, is very exciting. You know, one of the things that I would love for you to share, and this is, um, for other companies that are looking to build, even if it's not inside sales, another, a new division or they're looking to start their culture over from scratch. One of the things that I really appreciated is that you guys had a major focus on diversity and even when you were told, oh no, that can't be done. You guys didn't take no for an answer. So can you walk us through a little bit of that?
Rakhi Voria: Yes, absolutely. So, um, you know, obviously when you're hiring 1800 people at scale, there are tradeoffs that you used. Supposedly captive diversity was not one of them. For us, it's, it's really important and I think there were challenges definitely along the way. I mean, but our goal was to have 50 diversity within inside sales. Now we're not there 100 percent across the globe, but there actually are places like in Asia where more than 50 percent is email as an example. And Asia in particular is actually a really challenging place to hire talent for tech and that are female. And so we've been really proud of some of the work that we've done and the culture that we foster. But I think part of that is just pushing her to have, have that conversation. I mean, I think there were definitely times, as you said, where people said, well, the talent pool isn't there, and the reality is it is there.
Rakhi Voria: We just have to make more of an effort and there are things that you need to do in order to do that. So specifically for women as an example, we've all heard the statistics that, uh, you know, I think it was by IBM, they did a report a few years ago, they said that women only apply for the job when they meet 100 percent of the qualifications, whereas men apply for the job when they think they meet 60 percent. And so we need to be really thoughtful about the language that we're using in job descriptions. Even for inside sales team. I mean, you know, do we want to use words like Hungary and competitive and, and things like that, or do we want to use kind of a more softer language that my cater to more women. Um, so those are the things that we've had to be really thoughtful about just to widen the pool as much as possible and push our hr teams to lead to this outcome.
Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. I love that story. That's one of my favorite stories because not only did you guys hit enormous numbers and just hiring over a very short amount of time, but you guys did it in a very thoughtful way, which is usually okay. So I, I'm perfectly appreciate that. Um, so for our younger audience members, is there anything that you think made you stand out in the applicant pool back six years ago when you're fresh out of grads? What was it about you that made you a rockstar on, on resume paper?
Rakhi Voria: I think part of it was just demonstrating a track record of success. I mean the reality is most millennials are not going to have the previous experience that employers are looking for. So I think we instead just need to show that our past experience, whatever it may be, whether it was sports, whether it was internships, whatever, that all of those results were actually the same regardless of what the task was at hand, that we were able to demonstrate success, see things through. And I think that's what I did. I mean I had never worked at a major tech company, but I had some great internships across various industries. I performed well academically. I want full rights to school. I mean, I think all of those things kind of collectively, hopefully showed Microsoft that I was someone who was willing to learn who had somewhat of an aptitude to be successful. Um, provided I was given the right training and skills development opportunities. So yeah, that's what I. Fantastic.
Amanda Hammett: So is there anything that you wish other companies knew about hiring millennials? Is there anything that you, you hear complaints about or is there anything you just, you just wish the thing new?
Rakhi Voria: Yeah. You know, I think the first one I would say is don't underestimate the importance of giving some of your younger millennial employees flexibility. Millennials really want flexibility in how, where and when we work. I mean there was actually a really great millennial study that Deloitte put out last year which shows that 75 percent of millennials, they want the ability to work from home or somewhere other than the office and they think that that's where they can unleash more creativity. And the study actually found that in most markets, worklife balance came before career progression when evaluating job opportunities. So we shouldn't underestimate how important a flexible lifestyle is for this generation. I think the other thing that I might add is like, we hear a lot about these whole employee perks and I think that's a really funny topic because people always say all millennials, they want Free Food and candy and bean bags and nap pods.
Rakhi Voria: Otherwise they're not going to be happy. And I think those things are all great, but there's actually no formal data that shows that's enough to retain your millennial employees. Right? And I think it's kind of a generalization that's been driven by movies like the internship and stuff like that. And um, for me, the number one thing that I've seen personally as a millennial and then also through a lot of our millennial workforce here at Microsoft is they want to have differentiated experiences, which I talked about a little bit ago, but I think companies that win with millennials are those that offer experiences. So, um, as an example, the topic of how millennials are approaching business travel has become really prevalent recently. So I'm, you know, I'm definitely one of those people, but in that same deloitte study, actually it said that 78 percent of millennials intentionally carve out personal time during a business trip. I do that myself. I mean, I think in the five continents and 20 countries over the past time that I've been at Microsoft, but um, I'm always looking to turn those business vacations into workstations I guess, because I think it makes my trips more balanced and memorable. Um, so I think those are some, some things that a lot of people probably don't really know about when they think about millennials, but I would encourage people to look at that. Deloitte study actually their whole. Yeah,
Amanda Hammett: that is a great study. That was actually one of my, one of my favorites. Um, so. All right. Is there anything, just one last thing, is there anything that you think that you wish the company did to make it make the hiring process easier for millennials in particular?
Rakhi Voria: here are two things that come to mind for this. The first one was what I mentioned earlier, it's just being more cognizant of the language that's used on job descriptions. Most job descriptions say that you need two to five years of experience, even jobs that are targeted actually toward university and graduate higher. Say this for some reason. I think it's just standard verbiage that's often included, but a lot of people take those job requirements quite literally and they hold themselves back unfortunately because they don't think they'll be considered. And as I mentioned earlier, women in particular have that issue. So you compound, you know, being a woman and being a millennial, that's a whole pool of really great talent that you might miss out on if you're not being thoughtful about the language and the job descriptions. The second thing that I would mention is, um, you know, I would love to see more bigger company is targeting smaller schools actually as they think about university hires.
Rakhi Voria: Unfortunately, a lot of the big companies like the big tech firms, procter and gamble and Mckinsey, et Cetera, they target some of the tier one school. So Basically Ivy Leagues and Great Liberal Arts Colleges including the college that I went to for Undergrad that unfortunately those students don't really get access to some of those top tier companies. And so I, uh, it's a conversation I've even had internally with some of our Microsoft hr teams because I think we needed to be a little bit more open minded and thoughtful about how we're recruiting so that we're not missing out on a great talent pool.
Amanda Hammett: I agree. I could not agree with that more. I love it. I also went to a small liberal arts college. I hear you. I completely hear you. And I have those conversations a lot as well with company. So. Well rocky, this has been fantastic. I mean you are just, I mean I already knew you were a rock star, but now everyone else will get to see that you're a rockstar. So thank you so much for being here and thank you so much for bringing so much knowledge and passion to this interview.
Rakhi Voria: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at AmandaHammett.com. The link is below. It's AmandaHammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 11: Millennials: Where Passion Meets Drive appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
How do you create loyalty among millennial employees? And why are millennials not automatically loyal employees? Disloyal and lacking empathy are two ways millennials are often described. However, after meeting Maria O. Banjo you may need to revisit those descriptions. Maria is a DeKalb Co Elder Abuse prosecutor. Which means she spends all day, every day building and trying cases against people prey on the most vulnerable members of our society the elderly. However, you will see it is not just the need to protect others that keeps Maria up every day engaged and fighting for what is right. Maria’s boss has figured out a formula for keeping her employees in fighting form….and it is easier than you think!
Maria O. Banjo is a Victim-Centered Prosecutor, Former Public Defender, Criminal Justice Reform Advocate. She is recognized for demonstrating a natural aptitude for advocating on behalf of the voiceless, as well as for providing team leadership, driving performance, program improvement, and quality initiatives, I have a verifiable history of contributing directly to organizational growth and efficiency throughout my career.
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The Transcript - Creating Loyalty Among Millennial Employees **00:05 Amanda Hammett:** Alright, in today's episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast, I have the fortune of interviewing rockstar Maria Banjo, who happens to be an assistant district attorney here in Atlanta, Georgia. Now, the wonderful thing about Maria is that she is incredibly passionate about helping other people. And you're going to see that passion really truly come through in the interview. And one of the things that you need to know about Maria is that she is smart and she's collaborative, and she uses that to help out some of the oldest and sometimes most vulnerable citizens, the elderly.
00:38 Amanda Hammett: Now, one of my big takeaways from this interview with Maria, was that Maria has this incredible sense of loyalty to her boss. Now her boss actually works specifically in order to develop that loyalty not just with Maria, but among all of the employees in the District Attorney's office. And man, that loyalty really shows with Maria. Join in and see what she has to say.
01:02 Amanda Hammett: Hey there, this is Amanda Hammett. I'm known as the Millennial Translator®, because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And today we have a very special millennial rockstar on the Millennial Rockstars podcast. We have Maria Banjo. Maria, welcome to the show.
01:19 Maria Banjo: Thank you.
01:21 Amanda Hammett: Alright. So what you guys don't know is you're looking at Maria and she looks very nice, and very kind. But man, you get her in a courtroom, and not so much.
[laughter]
01:34 Amanda Hammett: Maria is an assistant district attorney for a major county in the Atlanta area. So, yeah, a little scary, right?
01:42 Maria Banjo: You know, I do what I can.
01:45 Amanda Hammett: Well, alright, so tell us about your current role in the District Attorney's office.
01:50 Maria Banjo: Well, I am currently in the Elder Abuse Unit, so I prosecute cases against elders and those adults who are also disabled. And so, we basically investigate the case from beginning to end, including trial.
02:08 Amanda Hammett: Nice, nice, nice. Okay, fantastic. Now, Maria is a very special rockstar to me, mainly because she and I attended the same college, and not at the same time because one of us is older.
[laughter]
02:25 Amanda Hammett: But I had the pleasure of meeting Maria at an alumni event, and it was just amazing. Your passion came through, you're just... Your knowledge and just general, just, "This is how it is, this is what we're gonna do," and just your command of a room in that alumni event, this all came out. [chuckle] It was amazing to see.
02:46 Maria Banjo: Well, thank you. Thank you, thank you. All I can do is be me. And I think that's what everyone should really try to do, Be yourself.
03:00 Amanda Hammett: That's very, very true. Okay, so tell the audience a little bit about... Because you've had a really interesting career since you left law school. So, tell the audience a little bit about your career path. How did you get from college undergrad to your current role as Assistant District Attorney?
03:21 Maria Banjo: Well, let's see here. So, I knew early on I wanted to be a lawyer. Decided I wanted to help people, and the way I wanted to do it was by being a lawyer. And so after my time at Agnes Scott, I went to John Marshall Law School. That was a very difficult process because I ended up having a really low score for the LSAT. As a result I applied, I think to 15 law schools and only got into one. And I thank God everyday that I ended up at John Marshall Law School in Chicago 'cause it ended up being one of the top 10 schools for legal writing, and as well for trial advocacy. And so, I graduated in January of '09 in the midst of the recession, which was very difficult for a lot of us attorneys. So, as a result, I ended up opening my own law firm. I grew up, my parents owned a business, so I always had entrepreneurial spirit.
04:24 Maria Banjo: And so I figured if there isn't a job out there, I'll create one for myself, and so that's what I did. And I had my law firm for a year, and then I was still looking for a job. And what I did was I opened up Google Map, the map of Georgia, found all the counties, and started going one by one to each county and applying to the jobs. And my goal was to apply to all 159 counties in Georgia for a public defender job.
04:57 Maria Banjo: And so eventually I got an offer, or an interview in Covington, Georgia. I didn't realize it was just in the Covington Highway in Stone Mountain. There are two Covingtons. When I opened my GPS I realized it was a little further east. [chuckle] So, anyways, I got there, and at the time I had a semi-fancy vehicle, so what I did was I hid it, I parked two or three blocks down the road 'cause I didn't want anyone to see the kind of vehicle I was driving and make an assumption about how much I needed the job and what kind of work I would do.
05:42 Maria Banjo: And so for me, I got hired before I even made it back to Sandy Springs, I got a call from them giving me an offer, and I took it. I spent about three years over there, three and a half years, and I ended up defending those charged with serious felony crimes including murder. And then it got to a point where I got too comfortable, I was like, "I wanna try something new, challenge myself." And so I was like, "I wanna switch sides." And so, I had my current... Or my boss then, was helping me with my job search. I asked him a few times to make some phone calls into the offices that I was interviewing, go in through the back. In addition, the prosecutor that I was working against, she specifically wrote me a letter of recommendation.
06:36 Amanda Hammett: Wow.
06:36 Maria Banjo: She sent me a recommendation letter saying that they should hire me. And as a result of that, I ended up getting hired as a prosecutor in metro Atlanta area.
06:50 Amanda Hammett: Awesome.
06:52 Maria Banjo: And honestly, I would say, throughout my legal career so far, it's the things that you can't really put to paper that make people wanna speak on your behalf, as far as your ethics and your loyalty, and the kind of person you are. And with the legal field, it's very small, and one of my early mentors said, "All you have is your good name," and that is so true. And so, I work hard to keep that good name untarnished.
07:31 Amanda Hammett: Well, I can't imagine you ever doing anything that would tarnish that name.
[chuckle]
07:38 Amanda Hammett: Alright. So Maria, tell us a little bit about... You walked us through your career path, and so how long have you actually been practicing law?
07:47 Maria Banjo: Almost 10 years now.
07:49 Amanda Hammett: Okay, so just a little bit of time.
07:50 Maria Banjo: Just a little bit of time.
07:52 Amanda Hammett: A little bit of time.
07:52 Maria Banjo: Just a skosh. Just a skosh.
07:55 Amanda Hammett: So, tell me a little bit about, I know that there's obviously been some ups and downs, I mean with any career there's ups and downs. Tell us a little bit about what things have worked or have not worked for you in your career so far?
08:11 Maria Banjo: I would say, maintaining the status quo..what's always worked. I think a lot of times, whether it's in private sector or especially in government, sometimes people like to... Or they get too comfortable in what has always been. Things has always been doesn't mean that you continue. I discovered early on that I can't help myself but fix things. No matter where I'm placed, I'm like an issue spotter. 'Cause I like to do things and make things more efficient, but to that end, also that doesn't... That rubs some people the wrong way.
09:07 Amanda Hammett: Okay. Absolutely.
09:09 Maria Banjo: For sure. But I think I'm not being afraid to speak up when things don't make sense. But it's not an easy thing to do, for sure, but I think trying to maintain any kind of status quo or shrinking yourself... Shrinking yourself is something that I think, especially women or younger people discount their own experiences and what they can bring to the table. So I think doing things like that is not... One, it's not helpful to you personally, but also it's not beneficial to your boss. Because they're looking for talent and they're looking hopefully for you to be able to push them forward.
09:58 Amanda Hammett: Right. I would agree with that wholeheartedly. And that's one thing that I think that we see a lot of, is a lot of times I'll talk to organizations or teams or divisions and they're like, "We want innovation." "Innovation", that is the buzzword of the day, but then when they bring people in that are supposed to be innovative thinkers, they wanna put them into a box.
10:19 Maria Banjo: Right.
10:21 Amanda Hammett: That's not how innovation works.
10:22 Maria Banjo: No.
10:23 Amanda Hammett: Innovation is, you gotta have the rough edges and you gotta deal with them because from those rough edges, you get these crazy ideas that you can take to the bank.
10:34 Maria Banjo: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think having brainstorming sessions that are unfiltered... My coworkers know that I will have off the wall ideas and with those ideas, and I know that some of them aren't practical. But you have to shoot big and see what you can do, instead of starting out small and already saying no.
11:00 Amanda Hammett: Yep.
11:01 Maria Banjo: Yeah.
11:02 Amanda Hammett: I agree with that. Absolutely. Now, tell us a little bit about, and you've told us a little bit about what doesn't work for you, or what has not worked for you in your career. Can you tell us a little bit about a specific stumbling block that you've had?
11:26 Maria Banjo: There are a lot. I would say there are a lot of stumbling blocks, and it comes in the form of... When you're a trial lawyer, you have the judge, you have 12 jurors, you have the defense counsel, you may have an audience, you have the clerk's office, you have the bailiffs, right?
11:46 Amanda Hammett: Okay.
11:47 Maria Banjo: These are various organizations that are judging you every day. And so, as a lawyer it's virtually impossible to know the answer to everything or anticipate everything. Sometimes you will forget things, but unlike other jobs where if you forget something that happens, silo or whatever, so various times that I have, whether I've forgotten a key witness or forgotten how to swear someone in. The very first time I had a motion, this was six months into my new job, four months into my new job. And I had four motions scheduled, motions to suppress, and I had my head elected official or appointed official, at my table.
12:36 Maria Banjo: And I got up to get my first witness ever, ever, ever, ever. And the judge was like, "Ms Banjo, you gonna swear in your witness?" "Judge, I don't know how to do that, I don't know those words to swear in." And so, he swore in my witness. Next case, 20 minutes later. "Ms Banjo, you gonna swear in your witness?" I went, "Judge, between the first time and the second... Now I still don't."
[chuckle]
13:11 Maria Banjo: Third time my boss had to write it out, on the table, and I ended up reading it. The very next day, one of my clients called the office, "I want a real lawyer," you know, blahzay blah blahzay blah. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm about to get fired. I really don't know this basic stuff." And I ended up winning one of the most difficult hearings that day, and then because of my performance on that particular day, I got a promotion two months later to do the drug, guns and alcohol cases because of my legal analysis. And the judge in that courtroom fell in love with me, 'cause he saw how I just kept going forward. I may not know something, and you may feel personally embarrassed, but I did not let define me, and so... But, it just took me that one day. After that day, I knew how to swear in a witness. [chuckle]
14:10 Amanda Hammett: You can probably do it in your sleep now, right? [chuckle]
14:13 Maria Banjo: Yeah. So things like that happen all the time where you're really going to look crazy. That's what I call looking crazy. So I always prepare to make sure that Maria does not look crazy.
[laughter]
14:27 Maria Banjo: But those times when you do look crazy, it's important to really take full responsibility, your failures, and then learn from it. Because I will tell you there are some people out there who will say, "Well you know, in other counties, 90% of them, the bailiff will always swear in the witness." Your boss should have told you that and prepared you for the hearing. That could have been true, right? But, at the time, you as a lawyer, you know every single courtroom is gonna be different. You need to do your homework. I should've asked, "Hey, what do I need to do? Are you guys gonna swear in the witness or do I need to do that?", beforehand.
15:06 Maria Banjo: So I think in any situation there's always gonna be someone to scapegoat. But relying on other people when you can take ownership of your own learning, is the way to avoid. And that goes into what I always say, you need to create your own standard for yourself. So it doesn't matter what kind of boss or supervisor comes in, your standard will always exceed anyone else's standards, and you're not going to have to shift it based on where you are. If that makes sense?
15:45 Amanda Hammett: No, it makes complete and total sense. I think that's probably a type A personality rule right there. [chuckle]
15:53 Maria Banjo: Maybe. Maybe.
15:56 Amanda Hammett: But one of the things that I really love that you pointed out in that story and I really wanna emphasize it for just a second, is the fact that you took responsibility for your not knowing, for your mistake, whatever, and you were embarrassed and you totally admit that. But you did not let it stop you, you did not let it affect your performance for your... In that courtroom, and to protect the people of the county.
16:26 Maria Banjo: Absolutely. Absolutely.
16:27 Amanda Hammett: As a resident, I appreciate that.
[chuckle]
16:32 Maria Banjo: Well, you're welcome. I think people have this idea about lawyers and you being self-centered, but there's a lot of folks out there like myself, who put people first, and so no matter how I'm feeling, I'm having a good, bad or whatever day, I need to make sure I preserve, whether it's a defendant I'm defending or victim I'm trying to be an advocate for. And so getting into, I know I'm segueing into other things, but getting into fights with opposing counsel, act in an unprofessional manner with the judge, whomever, is not beneficial. One, it looks bad on you, looks bad on your boss, and it doesn't move the ball further down for your case or anyone in the future.
17:24 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, 'cause at the end of the day, you've already said this, the legal field is a very small field, and you're seeing these judges all the time, you're seeing these opposing counsel all the time, and you have to work with them, sometimes in opposition, all the time.
17:43 Maria Banjo: All the time. Yeah, for sure. And I think there's a lot of principles that you can really apply in other industries. Because the legal field is so contentious, you would assume that we are constantly working with people on opposite sides, but being able to find a middle ground where both parties can be somehow happy, I think is a skill that it would be applicable to other fields and industries.
18:20 Amanda Hammett: I would agree with that wholeheartedly. So Maria, let me ask you something. Being a millennial, millennials are known for their collaboration abilities. Do you find that that's been helpful for you in this field doing what you do, having to constantly pull in people from opposing sides?
18:38 Maria Banjo: Yes, yes, I'm a major collaborator. When I deal with a case, I have a victim advocate, I have an investigator, and they have their own things that they're focusing on. I have my own role. There's a lot of vintage ways of doing things where the attorney is hierarchically up high, and I can do all these things, I don't really need you to do this. And I think it works to the detriment of the victim, and really the citizens. So I make sure I stay in my lane. I can do a lot of great things, but I know that there are skill sets from other people. And so whenever I'm doing something, even if it's purely legal, I ask my victim advocate, "Hey, what do you think about this? Does this makes sense? Does it make common sense or not?"
19:40 Maria Banjo: My investigator... And honestly, I've had a few of them say, "I've never been asked to give an opinion on this," and I'm like, "Well, you are an ordinary individual, right?" Sometimes we can get in ourself and really heady and use all this verbose terms and think we're just super smart, when we're trying to talk to real people, and so they have... Being able to appreciate the different things that people can give makes collaborating very useful, 'cause I don't know what they know, I don't know how they're gonna be hearing the information and receiving it. And so, through collaboration, they've saved me from looking crazy, multiple times, multiple times.
20:25 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. That's awesome.
20:26 Maria Banjo: Collaboration is key, it really is, with anything. And instead of... People have titles in organizations, whether IT professional, that we have in our organization or what have you, but no matter what someone's position is, they have an opinion on what it is you're doing. And so I think just bouncing things off of people from different aspects is really helpful.
20:57 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. That's really good advice, I think. So let me ask you this, you've been the assistant district attorney now for how long, three years?
21:12 Maria Banjo: I was a solicitor general downstairs doing misdemeanor cases for about three years, and then I moved up here in January of 2016, and then promoted nine months later to the Elder Abuse Unit.
21:25 Amanda Hammett: Okay, alight. So a little over two years, you've been there.
21:28 Maria Banjo: Yes.
21:30 Amanda Hammett: Now, what is it that your current boss or maybe a previous boss has done that really keeps you motivated and engaged and wanting to every day, wake up, come into the office and help the citizens of DeKalb County?
21:48 Maria Banjo: I think at the end of the day, my bosses have earned my loyalty...to do things throughout. I would say, most importantly, asking what I care about, asking how they can make me happier at the current job, what upcoming issues you're seeing in the current job. Investing in me, viewing my personal success as their success. So in my current office, there's this thing called "boomerang," right? Someone will work here or work for her for a few years, and they will have to move on. She will do what she can to help you get a new job, but they always come back. People boomerang back, 'cause... And it also is, there's a certain level of self-awareness. One job can't be your everything. It'd be a situation where you need to learn a particular skill set or hone a particular skill set, and you're able to do it in a different office. And once you have done that, then you can proceed to a different position that you're looking for.
23:17 Maria Banjo: So I can tell you right now, 10 people that have boomeranged back to work for my current boss. And I mean, I'm lucky, beyond lucky, to work for her. To give you an example, she had recommended me recently, a few months ago, for this leadership academy, sent me an email, "Hey, are you interested? You should apply." I applied, I found out two weeks ago, I got into the WIN List 2018 Leadership Academy, and they... Thank you. They train women to run for office or work on local campaigns.
24:00 Maria Banjo: And so just yesterday, we had a little reception. And I have three young women on my current campaign that I'm managing. One goes to Clark Atlanta University, one to John Marshall Law School. One's about to graduate in May in law school, and the other one is a 2.0. I invited them as well as one of their mothers to come, and they were my guests yesterday, and were so inspired by the women and they were just elated. And I learned that from my current boss, because she's in circles that I can never get into.
24:43 Maria Banjo: There are opportunities that will come to her that won't come to me, but if she has an opportunity to give me an extra seat at a table or an opportunity, she is going to pass it along. And so, but for me asking these young women to come with me, they would never have been at this golf course eating this food, meeting these people. And so, investing in your employees' happiness. With globalization, as well as the internet, employees have options, and I think employers need to accept and know that. Employees have options, very good options.
25:29 Maria Banjo: So it's not enough to just win an employee over once you hire them, you continue to invest in their future and see that when they're happy, they're more productive. When they feel like they're personally growing, it's beneficial to your bottomline. It's not a short-term, you're not gonna see how your money or profits tomorrow, but it will definitely help you out in the long run. That's what I think.
26:03 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. No, and I love that your boss is invested in you, and has one long-term loyalty with you through just small investments of time and effort and energy. It wasn't necessarily big investments of money.
26:21 Maria Banjo: No, no.
26:22 Amanda Hammett: Maybe it was just like, "Hey, I see this opportunity. I think it would be great for Maria. Let's pass it along." And I love that. I love that you've been the beneficiary of that, but I love that she's doing it. And I think that that's something that millennials, they want and they desire, and a lot of companies get, or organizations as a whole, get all caught up in like, "Oh, how much is this gonna cost me?" Well, it cost your boss, what, 10 minutes?
26:52 Maria Banjo: Right. And most people don't realize there's a lot of perks that are really either inexpensive or free, that you can do to encourage or make a connection. I always start thinking about, "Do you like your employees?" I think that's important to ask yourself, "Do you like your employees?" If you don't like your employees, you need to figure out who you're hiring, and what kind of environment and culture you have at your office, 'cause that could detrimentally affect the productivity. So I think it's a two-way street.
27:29 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely.
27:30 Maria Banjo: When my boss first took office last year, the employees who weren't used to her kinda leadership. What to do? She would, my boss would send emails like, "Hey, the first five people get free tickets, or can join me for this." And I'm telling people, "This is not a setup." [chuckle] It's not a trick question. This is real. I gotta... [laughter] But that's the thing, a lot... And I would say it's not a... It's unfortunate that people are surprised when the boss is asking you to come for lunch, or to come after work, saying, "That's not really work-related." But I, well I said, "You got to, it's a two-way street, people need to get to know one another, and people are going to help people they like." It's not just about money, 'cause you can get that anywhere.
28:31 Amanda Hammett: No, absolutely, I love that. And I love that your boss has invested in finding people that she likes, and has... And you like her in return. And so, I'm guessing, I'm gonna do some math here, but I'm guessing she likes you, you like her.
28:47 Maria Banjo: Right.
28:47 Amanda Hammett: And you have already said that you are very loyal to her, which means you would go above and beyond, above and beyond that 40 hours, above and beyond what's actually laid out in that job description.
29:00 Maria Banjo: Absolutely.
29:01 Amanda Hammett: You're gonna be way up here, when it comes to getting what needs to be done, done.
29:07 Maria Banjo: Absolutely. I think becoming the person that your boss can turn to in a crisis, is very important. And you can only be that person when you've demonstrated the ability to go above and beyond. Because you're willing to roll up your sleeves, do what's needed, try to fix a problem before they even think it's a problem. It's always, always going above and beyond. I've heard people say, "Well, that's not my job description. I need to do this, I need to do that." And you have to do things that are within reason.
29:47 Maria Banjo: I firmly believe in a good work-life balance. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a very hard worker, but I also really enjoy my personal time. In order to do that, you have to be really organized and you have to really prioritize, but by going above and beyond, you're willing to do that when you work for a boss you like, when you work for a boss who respects your opinion and is invested in your success.
30:21 Amanda Hammett: Right. I heard some really good millennial buzzwords there, in that last piece. I heard you feel heard, and I heard that you feel loyalty and going above and beyond, and I feel like there's a third thing that I'm dropped out of.
30:39 Maria Banjo: I can't remember.
30:42 Amanda Hammett: Well, regardless, you had some good quality millennial buzzwords. But that's the thing, you are a rockstar at what you do. Above and beyond, you are not a stereotypical millennial. You are this literal, legal rockstar. Legally, you are. [chuckle] And so...
31:00 Maria Banjo: Thanks.
31:01 Amanda Hammett: But your boss has done a really good job, has really done a good service, not only for you, but also for the entire county, because you guys are protecting us in a lot of ways. So by her pouring into you, and I'm assuming it's not just you in your office, it's a bunch of other people. She's like that with all of you...
31:20 Maria Banjo: A bunch of other people.
31:22 Amanda Hammett: Yeah. As much as I love you, Maria, I don't think that you're her teacher's pet.
[laughter]
31:27 Maria Banjo: No.
31:29 Amanda Hammett: I'm sure that attention is paid to other assistant district attorneys in that office, I assume.
31:38 Maria Banjo: Yes. Oh, yes, oh, yes. You're absolutely right, absolutely right. And I know, I think trainings as well is super, super important. I can't say how many times people are like, "Oh, my God, I've never been to a training. I'm just a legal assistant," or, "I'm just a secretary. What could... " There's always personal development training. Whether it's Word, whether it's Excel, whether it's you wanna learn how to manage people. We're asked, "Okay, within five years, where do you wanna be in the beginning of the year?" And it doesn't matter if where you wanna be in five years is not in this office, 'cause wherever you're gonna be, it's gonna look and reflect well on my supervisor and my boss.
32:24 Maria Banjo: So that discussion, honestly asking... I kinda think of how it was before, when you have people working for you for 30 years, and they didn't go anywhere so you don't have to really ask, "What do you like?" Because, well, there weren't options. There wasn't the internet where you can find another job that's going to actually make you happy.
32:45 Amanda Hammett: Right.
32:45 Maria Banjo: Right? So this is the... Where we are now, and I think that you can no longer ignore the personal desires of your employee.
32:56 Amanda Hammett: Yeah, no, I agree with that. And I think a lot is to be said with how connected we are. It used to be, you would walk out the office 5:00, 6:00, whatever it is, you'd shut your door, and there was the physical disconnect. But with technology, there is no physical disconnect from the office. You have to actually make that conscious choice. There's no door to shut, 'cause your boss can ping you in the middle of the night on your cellphone or call you in the middle of the night on your phone or email you, or whatever. And so you have to make that choice. And it's a really important decision to make. What was that? What was that? [chuckle]
33:34 Maria Banjo: I was gonna say, you would say your boss can call you in the middle of the night or whatever, whatever. I've never gotten a crazy... A work-related call at an inappropriate time. I'm friends with a lot of my supervisors, and if it's after 7:00 or 8:00, it's another personal issue, like a personal text message or call, not work-related. And I think that goes to respect, again.
34:04 Amanda Hammett: I agree.
34:05 Maria Banjo: Respect of my time. I think it would be awkward for me to get something, a message or whatever, from my boss after 6:00, that's work-related, unless it's something super, super pressing, emergency, urgency. And just wanna know something right there and then doesn't mean you're gonna take... Yeah, that was just, I could not...
34:30 Amanda Hammett: Oh, no. I agree, I agree. When my son was little, I had a boss who, I had to call in sick because my son was sick, I had to take him to the doctor that day, and he called and emailed me while I was sitting in the pediatrician's office. And he knew what was going on. This wasn't a surprise. And it wasn't an emergency on his end. He was just like, "Hey, I needed to know this." And I'm like, "Are you kidding? Is this for real?" [chuckle]
34:58 Maria Banjo: Right, right. Usually, with my boss, you have to fight with her to stay in the office. If something happens personally, she's aware of it, you're virtually pushed out, like literally, "Get out."
35:12 Amanda Hammett: Oh, wow. That's nice.
35:14 Maria Banjo: Yeah. Having that work-life balance is like... Don't even call it work-life balance, it's just being reasonable.
35:22 Amanda Hammett: It is.
35:24 Maria Banjo: Reasonable and caring and nice and stuff. That's why people are trying to flock here, honestly.
35:33 Amanda Hammett: Yeah. It sounds like a fantastic place to be, honestly. If she is that caring about her employees and about their life outside of work, she knows that eventually... I'm sure this is not why she's doing it, she sounds like just a wonderful person, but she knows eventually that productivity and everything will come back to her benefit.
35:55 Maria Banjo: Totally. Totally.
35:56 Amanda Hammett: I'm not saying that that's why she's doing it, but... [chuckle]
36:00 Maria Banjo: Of course. And that's kind of, when things go left and you're put in a bind, and being able to have people available in time of need is really about how you live your life, and that's kind of what happens when you are this kind of a person, and that's what I try to do, is making sure that you continue to be there for people when... 'Cause a lot of times, you have something that someone else doesn't have, and you're able to just give it to them really easily, as far as price or connection, or what have you, and that people remember those things. People remember those small things that you think, "Oh, it's just an email," or whatever, but it really means a lot to someone else.
36:48 Amanda Hammett: It does, it does. No, you're 1000% right. When your employees like you as a person, they're far more likely, the statistics are just through the roof, they're far more likely to stay long-term. I wanna say it's close to 86% or something like that.
37:03 Maria Banjo: Right.
37:03 Amanda Hammett: It's unbelievable. Alright, Maria, how can our... Can our audience get in touch with you through LinkedIn, if they wanted to connect with you further?
37:14 Maria Banjo: Of course.
37:15 Amanda Hammett: Alright. Perfect, perfect, perfect. Well, we are going to wrap up. Maria and I could probably stay here and talk and you guys would get bored at some point, I'm sure. [chuckle] But thank you guys so much for joining us today on The Millennial Rockstar podcast. And thank you so much to Maria Banjo of the DeKalb County Assistant District Attorney. Thank you.
37:39 Maria Banjo: Thank you.
37:41 Amanda Hammett: Alright, everybody, thank you so much for joining us in this episode and we will see you in the next one. Have a good one. Bye.
37:47 Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below. It's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis, because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 10: Creating Loyalty Among Millennial Employees appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Hiring Millennials is not like hiring employees from other generations. All too often companies wait until they are desperate to fill a position before they begin to seriously recruit for it. By then, they are willing to accept the first person whose resume says they fulfill that need. But if you are hiring millennials, they want and expect more than just a job. They want a career with a company that is a cultural fit.
J.W. Kiser, MBA is a Senior Commercial Officer and First Senior Vice President of New People's Bank. The Bank offers savings, loans, deposits, cards, mortgages, checking accounts, certificates of deposit, money market, commercial lending, and online banking services. New Peoples Bank operates in the States of Virginia and Tennessee.
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The Transcript - The Longterm Value of Hiring Millennials Right the 1st Time **00:01 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Hey and welcome to this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Today's Rockstar is JW Kiser, who happens to be the chief loan officer for New Peoples Bank. And one of the things that I took away from the conversation with JW was the importance of hiring right the first time. And JW actually gets into some really interesting things where he talks about how it may cost you a little bit more upfront but it's so worth it in end, so check out what JW has to say.
00:37 Amanda Hammett: Hey there, this is Amanda Hammett, I'm known as The Millennial Translator® because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent and today on the Millennial Rockstars podcast we have JW. JW, welcome to the show.
00:51 JW Kiser: Hey, thanks for having me.
00:53 Amanda Hammett: Alright, so JW, you were actually nominated by someone that I know from my personal life, she and I attended college together and let me tell you, she has been someone who has always, always impressed me, so when I reached out to her and asked for a nomination and you were the immediate first person that she was like...
01:13 JW Kiser: Wow.
01:14 Amanda Hammett: This is who it is. I was like, "Alright, I've got to have him on the show." So tell us a little bit about you JW?
01:20 JW Kiser: A little bit about me. Well, first I may question that person that nominated me but it's very flattering and I greatly appreciate that. Now, and so a little bit about me, I live in Abingdon, Virginia, and I've got a beautiful wife and our 10-year-old daughter and I work for a great company called New Peoples Bank and and I'm a Senior Commercial Loan Officer so I think my exact title is Chief Commercial Banking Officer. But I think in banking, they give you these really long titles so they can pay you less, but, you know, that's what it's about.
[chuckle]
01:52 Amanda Hammett: Fantastic, fantastic. Alright, so you and I discussed this a little bit before we turned on the recording but you are an older millennial, correct?
02:04 JW Kiser: Thank you for reminding me, but yes. I'm in the '80 birth date I think.
02:09 Amanda Hammett: Yes, yes, yes, yes, so you're right at the top end of the age range, which has given you a good bit of work experience correct?
02:18 JW Kiser: That's right.
02:18 Amanda Hammett: Okay, fantastic. So tell us a little bit about your career path. How did you get to being that Commercial Bank Officer?
02:27 JW Kiser: Let's see. Like a lot of kids I went to college and as I was getting ready to leave I wasn't a 100% sure what I wanted to be and I think I wanted to be a pharmaceutical guy at one time and I saw my buddy and I had a few friends that did that and there was nothing like running around in the car and playing golf all day and selling drugs and making lots of money but at the end those jobs were pretty hard to get then and so then I thought of being a stock broker and I realized I didn't wanna do that. But kind of how I ended up in banking, a gentleman that I really looked up to that was one of my instructors, a guy by the name of Dr. Steve Bourne, he was an advisor for a local bank and he asked me if I would have some interest and go on and talk to those guys and they were trying to hire somebody that was fresh, that didn't have any preconceived notions on banking or any good habits or bad habits 'cause I didn't have any good habits either since I wasn't a banker but they wanted somebody they could train and kinda run around the bank and bring it up the way that they wanted to.
03:30 JW Kiser: And so I started there, and from there, I worked in Princeton, West Virginia, for a little bit and moved to Wytheville. We had a bank in Wytheville that was struggling and I was just a young kid at the time but they kinda gave me a chance. And so I went to Wytheville and had a really good run working at that bank and although I had some success at that location, and then there was another guy in town who would later become my future boss, a guy by the name of Jim Grubbs. At that time, it was just me and Jim that really loaned money in Wytheville and he said, "Hey, you know, rather than us beat each other up all the time, why don't we just work it out." So again, I kinda ended up in another bank and from there I moved to Abingdon to fix another bank and when I left there I moved to another bank to fix it and ended up here in New Peoples.
04:20 Amanda Hammett: So really what I just heard is that your title should be bank fixer.
04:24 JW Kiser: It actually should be bank janitor, but yeah.
[chuckle]
04:27 Amanda Hammett: Fantastic, fantastic. So in all of that time, I would assume that you have learned some lessons about yourself, about how you work best and just things that you figured out over the years. So tell us a little bit about what you have figured out for yourself that works really well for your work style or your work environment, things like that?
04:52 JW Kiser: Probably the thing that works best for me is to really be open and honest with everybody you do business with and that's very generic but it's very sincere. I heard a phrase one time that was called under-promise and over-achieve. It's always important to be... Whether you're trying to deliver to a new client or get a new relationship to say what you're gonna do and do what you say. So for me that's probably the biggest lesson that I've learned and the one trait that I still hold close to my heart. And just good communication and being able to deliver.
05:34 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. So does that translate not just to the client world but also internally to fellow bank employees?
05:43 JW Kiser: Sure, yeah. I think my employees have heard me say, you know, I kinda wear everything on my sleeve and what you see is what you get. I'm very truthful and very honest.
05:55 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome.
05:56 JW Kiser: And to the point, I'll be the first one to pat you on the back and tell you go have dinner on the company and I'll be the first one to kick you in the rear and give you a coaching lesson. So, but I think that's what people want. I know that that's what I want as an employee, and the millennial employee. And I just want good clear direction and great goals, and to be held accountable to those goals and have great things said about me, when I deliver and coaching when I don't.
06:26 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely, well, I think that that last phrase, the coaching when you don't, I mean that's one of the things that I work with a lot of companies on is this idea of radical transparency and you actually exhibit that. You may not exactly call it that, but you're the first person to admit to, "Oh, I messed up."
06:42 JW Kiser: Yeah.
06:43 Amanda Hammett: And I think that's important for a boss, for an employee, but also for a boss just show their employees, "Hey, I mess up, too." So it makes them more comfortable that like when they mess up, that they can come to you and say, "Hey, help me fix this."
06:57 JW Kiser: Yeah, it's way better than trying to cover it up. I mean...
07:00 Amanda Hammett: Oh yeah. [chuckle]
07:01 JW Kiser: You don't wanna go that route.
[chuckle]
07:01 Amanda Hammett: And it's a lot easier.
07:02 JW Kiser: Not in what we do especially so.
[chuckle]
07:04 Amanda Hammett: Yes. It's a lot easier to fix when you goof up before you start messing it up worse.
07:09 JW Kiser: That's exactly right.
07:11 Amanda Hammett: Alright, well, so with all of those wonderful things that you've learned about yourself, I would assume that there's also some things that you've learned that haven't worked so well for you. So any kind of stumbling blocks that you've seen throughout your career, any life lessons, we'll call them that you've learned over the years.
07:28 JW Kiser: Well, since we're talking about age, we'll probably hit that one to age. When I was... Even though I'm a younger millennial, when I was younger in my career, or older millennial when I younger in my career, doing what I do, it was hard to get that first shot. I mean, you're trying to loan a guy a million bucks or five million bucks or whatever it is, and you're a 27-year-old kid that, thought you knew a lot, and I thought I was a great banker, and delivered great service, but yeah that was probably the first part. It was tough to crack in to doing some of those bigger deals, with a little older generation that maybe they had a preconceived notion about the millennials. I'm not sure, but...
08:10 JW Kiser: So that was probably my stumbling block one and it's from a life lesson standpoint the thing that I've learned that's been most true and held true to this day is, surround yourself with great people. Take the time to hire the right person. And pay that person what they're worth. I mean it's, at the end of the day, that investment, I see so many people, and I see it even happen in our organization sometimes. It happens everywhere. We look at that other $10,000 that you're gonna have to pay in salary, and we go just a little bit lower and your return is so much better hiring the right person the first time and hiring a person that has the experience and the qualifications that you wanna see in an employee, even if it costs a little more upfront.
09:01 Amanda Hammett: No, I... Listen, I am a former recruiter. [chuckle]
09:04 JW Kiser: Okay.
09:05 Amanda Hammett: I know you are preaching to the choir here, I get it. I think that that's so important is to slow down in that process and actually pay people what they're worth, not just browbeat them on dollars.
09:20 JW Kiser: Yeah, that's a lesson that I've learned. I mean, when I was younger, I probably fell into that trap some and would hire, I don't wanna say the first person but the first person that I thought would be right, instead of waiting for the person that I knew was right. And the turnover is more. You gotta spend more training. It's not the way we go. And so that's, by far, the strongest lesson that I've learned. And we have a great team and I've been able to build a great team at this organization and surround myself with great people. And so...
09:51 Amanda Hammett: Okay, but yeah, I know. I mean that is a wonderful, wonderful lesson that you've learned. And unfortunately, I see companies making that mistake over and over again, and they just... They're like, "Well, we don't understand why we have high turnover." And I was like, "Really, you know." So...
10:07 JW Kiser: If you want greatness, don't hire average.
10:10 Amanda Hammett: Yes, yes, yes, that is fantastic. Yes, that is perfect. So let me ask you... Let's go back to college JW for just a second, so let's think about you getting ready to graduate, and you said that when you were leaving college, you weren't exactly sure what you wanted to do, you had a few things that you were interested in. When you were thinking about you, back in the day, and the way that you saw corporate America before you experienced it or the working world or the real world before you actually experienced it, did you... Do you remember hitting any major stumbling blocks or reality checks as you moved and transitioned into the real world?
10:53 JW Kiser: Yeah, yeah, you know. When you say that, I'm smiling, you know. When I went to college, I mean I did pretty well in college. Made mostly A's, made a B or two here and there, and when I thought that I graduated, I thought people would just be dying to hire me. I thought that, here's a guy that did great in college and... At least I think I can talk to anybody. And I thought I would just roll out and people would have their checkbook and just be dying to drag me over. I'm being a little sarcastic, but that's not really the way it worked. And you kinda gotta earn your way regardless of what it is. It doesn't matter if you're laying bricks for a living or you're in the business world, you gotta earn your way. And so, I can remember my first salary, starting out, I wanna... I was like, "Man... " I just thought it'd be different. So yeah, that was probably my first stumbling block was trying to find my way into the real world and what it meant to have a W2 versus what you thought your W2 would say.
[chuckle]
11:56 Amanda Hammett: Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. I very much remember getting that very first paycheck and thinking, "Well, where did all my money go?" [chuckle]
12:05 JW Kiser: Where's the other half at? They took half. They took half of virtually nothing but... Yeah, so that was probably my big stumbling block. I thought that they just be lined up out the door and I'd have no problem getting a job and paying out the wazoo. But you gotta earn it, you gotta earn it.
12:22 Amanda Hammett: Well, yeah. That's the tough reality a lot of us face, leaving college, for sure. So, let's talk about you throughout your entire career because you have mentioned one or two people thus far that have kind of given you an edge throughout the years. But when you're looking back, were there any bosses, current or former, or mentors, or anyone like that that really helped you stay engaged, stay productive, even on those days where you're just like, "Man, I cannot go back in and face this today."
13:00 JW Kiser: Sure. I've had so many wonderful mentors, just kind of starting there. Even I can remember when I grew up. I was just a kid and I played golf every day. That's what I did, and lived in this little small town and my dad would drop me off at the crack of daylight and then he'd pick me up at dark. But there was so many people there that I looked up to, and I played golf with a lot of grown men that kinda took me under their wing and kinda taught me how to be a man, and be responsible and be polite. And so, it even goes back that far. And my dad was a phenomenal father. He was very demanding and wanted me to do great and be successful in life, and be respectful. So even back to the early days, yeah, I have a ton of mentors and I literally couldn't name them all. Probably my first and best mentor was a guy by the name of Mori Williams. Now, Mori actually works at our bank. When I got out of college, Mori was my first boss.
14:00 Amanda Hammett: Really?
14:00 JW Kiser: And in banking you have, usually before you go start a new branch like you see these big nice million dollar branches were, usually before that you go in and you do what they call loan production office, which is basically, you send a lender over there and he tries to beat up some loans before you open your branch because the branch is so expensive you want some loans to help offset some of those bills. So we were getting ready to build a new branch, and they put Mori and myself and his assistant in this little tiny house over in Princeton, West Virginia. It was this little house office. And our offices were so close that, me just being a young guy straight out of college, I could listen to Mori's conversations, as bad as that was. But by listening to how Mori talked and interacted with people, I really learned how to talk to people. Even when he was in a bad mood that morning, when he picked up that phone, he was smiling. And it was all about them.
14:54 JW Kiser: So even though we were in a super tiny office and bathroom was beside everybody's offices, which is a different story, but it was great to be able to hear those conversations that he had. And he would take me on a lot of joint calls, and so he was my first mentor that really taught me how to interact in business. I knew how to interact with people, 'cause I'd had mentors my whole life, growing up with people that demanded respect, but he was the first one to be able to convey that to a business, for certain.
15:27 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. I wouldn't think of it as like eavesdropping, but really, that was a wonderful growing and learning experience for you to have, especially at that critical juncture of your career.
15:38 JW Kiser: It was. Yeah, and now Mori works with us. We parted ways years ago, and he went to a different bank, and I went to a different bank, and he joined our team, our commercial team, about three or four months ago.
15:51 Amanda Hammett: Really? Oh that's just a wonderful circle.
15:54 JW Kiser: It's amazing how people come back. Yeah.
15:55 Amanda Hammett: That is fantastic. Have you ever shared with them about kind of the impact that the listening in on those conversations has had on you in your career?
16:04 JW Kiser: Probably some. I probably never divulged that I was eavesdropping on every conversation he ever had. But I assume if he was gonna talk to his wife, he'd shut the door, but just a small office.
16:15 Amanda Hammett: Well, you'll have to forward him a copy of this, this podcast.
16:18 JW Kiser: There we go.
[chuckle]
16:19 Amanda Hammett: So is there anything at any of the banks or any of the organizations you've worked with or been a part of that they gave as far as perks or benefits, or even just the culture within those organizations that has really made you say, "Man, these are my people. This is where I wanna be. This is where I need to be."
16:43 JW Kiser: Yeah. I've been very, very fortunate. I worked at two or three organizations, I guess about three organizations and they've all really believed in education. And they believed in investing in people. And for me, I've always wanted to continue to grow, and I read a lot. And I went back to school and got my MBA and all that stuff. And in banking, there's so much to learn, and you learn every day, and I'm sure it's like that in every field, it's just this is the one that I know. So I've always had great employers that were willing to invest in me.
17:19 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome.
17:19 JW Kiser: And I wouldn't work somewhere that wasn't willing to invest in me. I saw a post on Facebook one time, that said, "What happens if we invest in this employee and they leave?"
17:35 Amanda Hammett: Yep.
17:36 JW Kiser: Well, what happens if you don't invest in them and they stay? You know, it's worse. So I've always had great employers that believed in education and training people right, and doing things the right way, and I've been very fortunate there. Perks, I've never had a boss that micromanaged me. And, yeah, I know, it's hard to believe. It is hard to believe.
18:00 Amanda Hammett: I can't believe that. [chuckle]
18:03 JW Kiser: Back to probably my first real... I mean, not my real job, but my first real challenge was when I was at First Bank, and I went to run an organ... A new branch... Or an old branch that was losing a bunch of money. I had a boss by the name of Jim Grubbs, and Jim kinda sent me down there, and he said, "Hey, I don't care how you do it, I just want you to make money." And it was losing a bunch of money, and he didn't call me every week, wanting to know what my seven-step plan was, and he wanted to look at the numbers.
18:35 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome.
18:39 JW Kiser: That's very important. And even my current bank president, he's the same way. He don't care if I work 60 hours or 40 hours, or if I leave here at three o'clock and go play golf. It's... Did you do your job? Did you deliver on the results that we agreed that you'd deliver on? And I think that's what millennials want. I know that's what I want. I don't wanna be micromanaged. I've had times in my career where I've worked 80 hours a week, and I don't wanna do it. I wanna have a healthy work-life balance, and at the end of the day, I'll do what it takes to deliver. Sometimes that is 80 hours, but sometimes it's 30.
19:17 Amanda Hammett: Yeah. JW, that was very millennial of you to say that.
19:21 JW Kiser: Oh, thank you. Thank you.
19:23 Amanda Hammett: That work-life balance idea, that's something that I hear a lot of complaining about is like older generations sometimes just don't get that. But of course, we were the ones that introduced the concept of being a workaholic.
19:37 JW Kiser: Yeah.
19:38 Amanda Hammett: So I guess that's probably why. So when you're looking at hiring a young employee, is there anything in your mind that will stand out, whether it's in a resume, whether it's in the interview process, is there anything that really stands out in your mind that says, "This person is going to be a rockstar. This person, like I gotta have this person."
20:03 JW Kiser: I want somebody that's confident. First and foremost, I tell everyone the same thing that, I hire you for this, what we're doing right here. I hire you... If you can communicate, that's kind of the part one of what we do. If you have great conversation with great people and ask for business, you'll be very successful. But the second part of that is, I want somebody that's driven and I want somebody that's not driven by dollars. Dollars are the worst motivator ever. If you give somebody some dollars, it's very short-term performance driven. It's not what people think it is. So I want someone that, first and foremost, can communicate. And then second, the success that they wanna have comes from within, not an external reward.
20:51 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome, but I love that. I love that a lot. So is there anything... Is there anything else that you think that organizations need to know about hiring millennials, whether they're the younger millennials or the older millennials like yourself.
21:06 JW Kiser: Yeah, thanks for reminding me again.
21:08 Amanda Hammett: You're so welcome.
21:10 JW Kiser: You know, I do think millennials are a little different generation, and it's no different than what I do or what you do. If you go to one organization or another one, you've gotta kinda tailor your pitch a little. It's the same if I'm going to see a farmer, or if I'm gonna see a 30-million-dollar customer, you gotta change a little bit, and you gotta have some flexibility. And I think millennials probably demand that more than ever. I mean, I don't think that they're... I'm not saying previous generations are just cookie cutter. I'm not saying that, but I think they want some flexibility. I think the perks that they want are a little different. So to me, when I try to hire someone that's younger, I wanna figure out what their hot button is.
21:56 Amanda Hammett: Yeah.
21:56 JW Kiser: What do they want the most out of this? Is it... Do they value the vacation, do they value the dollars, do they value a Country Club membership? What is it?
22:07 Amanda Hammett: And how do you find that out JW?
22:08 JW Kiser: You gotta ask great questions. It's no different than... If you'll talk to someone, and you get somebody talking about themselves, they'll love to keep going. So you ask great questions, and don't be afraid to ask those questions. So, I think you figure out what the hot button is and you play that card. Because ultimately, that's what's gonna drive their decision, and make them happy and content with where they're gonna work.
22:34 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. That is fantastic advice. And I think that that's something every leader needs to hear. At the end of the day, we're all hiring, we're all looking for that next person that's gonna help us push to the next level. But you gotta hire right to do that.
22:50 JW Kiser: That's right.
22:51 Amanda Hammett: Well, fantastic. Well, thank you so much, JW, for being on the Millennial Rockstar podcast. Is it okay if our audience wants to reach out to you on LinkedIn?
23:01 JW Kiser: Sure, that'd be great.
23:02 Amanda Hammett: Fantastic. Well, I will share a link to JW's LinkedIn profile in the show notes. But thank you guys for joining us today on the Millennial Rockstar podcast, and we will see you next time. Bye.
23:14 JW Kiser: Thank you. Bye.
23:16 Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below, it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free Millennial Employee Engagement Guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis, because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 09: The Longterm Value of Hiring Millennials Right the 1st Time appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Millennials as a generation of kids grew up hearing they could do anything they set their minds to. Now they are questioning that ability. Now millennials are facing the Impostor Syndrome especially at work and it is affecting their career growth and trajectory. Meet a millennial rockstar who has successfully used mentors and colleagues to help her battle the Impostor Syndrome.
Janet Regal Hart is a Sr. Manager, Product Management at Amazon. Amazon.com, Inc., is an American multinational technology company based in Seattle, Washington, that focuses on e-commerce, cloud computing, digital streaming, and artificial intelligence. It is considered one of the Big Four technology companies along with Google, Apple, and Facebook.
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The Transcript - Fighting the Millennial Imposter Syndrome for Career Growth **00:01 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, and this is the Millennial Rockstars Podcast.
00:05 Amanda Hammett: All right, so in this episode of the Millennial Rockstars Podcast, we are going to meet a rockstar, Janet Hart, who's coming to us from Amazon. And so Janet actually shares with us a story about one of her early, early mentors and how he actually helped her to learn to tie her outcomes to financial results for the company and how that has made all the difference in her career. And then she also gets pretty vulnerable, and shares with us the story about how despite all the successes she has seen throughout her career, how she still, to this day, sometimes struggles with the impostor syndrome. So tune in and listen to what Janet Hart has to share.
00:43 Amanda Hammett: Hey there, this is Amanda Hammett. I am known as the millennial translator® because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And speaking of top millennial talent, today, we have Janet Hart, who comes to us from Amazon. Janet, thanks for coming on the show.
01:00 Janet Hart: Hi, it's nice to be talking with you today.
01:04 Amanda Hammett: Well, great, great. So here's the thing, this show is all about you have to be nominated to be on the show and you have to be nominated by a former boss or a former co-worker, or a current boss or co-worker, and you were nominated by somebody that I actually respect and admire tremendously. She could not say enough good things about you. Let's just put it that way.
[laughter]
01:30 Amanda Hammett: Now, tell us a little bit, Janet, about your career.
01:33 Janet Hart: Well, so I started my career in 2001, at a company called Blackbaud, in Charleston, South Carolina, and I was there until about 2014. In my 13 years there, I had seven different positions and so I moved every two to three years roughly to a different part of the company. So I started working with third-party resellers and then I moved into a year where all I did was data analysis on sales performance metrics, diving deep into really interesting things. And then that prepared me to lead the global operating plan development and the regular operations of the sales work, did that for a few years, and moved into marketing. Learned a lot there, really focused on marketing automation, which was emerging at the time.
02:29 Amanda Hammett: Cool.
02:30 Janet Hart: Yeah, actually I really had a good time in that position, because we had put out some very large, and this was roughly like 2011-12. So we were looking towards 2020 as like, "What is our big goal for 2020 and how are we gonna get there?" And I thought we're not gonna get to this goal of acquiring customers if we're gonna call every single person individually, we need a better way to reach our market and a better way to talk to them with personalized messages. And so we... I led my team and we brought in marketing automation to Blackbaud for the first time and it has become an engine for them, which is super exciting. For me, even though I'm not doing that anymore, it's had a lasting impact. So I did that for a few years. And then, I moved on to a role where I was the director of operational excellence and led a major project for back office transformation.
03:23 Amanda Hammett: Cool.
03:24 Janet Hart: Where I had been on sales and marketing, then I moved to like, well, how do we iron it all out so that a customer and a contract comes in at the front of the business and goes all the way through to recognition smoothly. So that was...
03:38 Amanda Hammett: Wow.
03:38 Janet Hart: Yeah, the last thing that I did there. And then I was at a point where I was ready to do something new, take on a new challenge and I had to ask myself some tough questions: Do I wanna take on a new position here? 'Cause there was still more for me to learn. Or, do I wanna go and try to tackle a challenge at a different company and get a different perspective and way of thinking of things? And that's what I did. And so I ended up joining Amazon in the create space division here in Charleston and I'm a senior product manager and I have a team of product managers and I find it really fun work, very customer-focused like working backwards from opportunities to develop solutions and the work is very different than what I was used to before. The mental model is different in that you know... I just, I think it's been fun, so like that's the nutshell.
04:39 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome. I mean you've had a really fascinating career. And one thing that I really wanna point out to our listeners who are leaders of millennials is that you mentioned, and this is something I've seen consistently. You mentioned that every two to three years, you were ready for a new challenge. But the fact of the matter is, is you stayed put at one company for 13 years, and millennials do not have a reputation for being long-term employees, when actually that is, that's false.
05:15 Janet Hart: Yeah, I think I was lucky at Blackbaud to have good leaders that I worked with, who recognized that I needed that change, and that I was flexible enough to be able to move to different competencies or functions in the company, learn about them, figure out what could be improved, or what needed to be started and didn't exist, like tackle something. So I think that that is one of my sort of super powers is being flexible, because I bend, I can bend in a lot of different directions, but I don't break easily, so I'm really up to kind of a variety of challenges. And I had one mentor there who I was lucky to work for twice. He helped me think about my career differently. I think in a way, we were of different generations, and so a little bit of friction and frustration that we had when we had career development conversations, is he was like, "Well, what do you wanna do long term? What do you wanna do in 10 years?" I was like, "I don't know." I really can't think that far in advance. I'm much better at saying this is what I don't wanna do or this challenge seems interesting, and maybe only thinking three years in advance. And so he's like, "Alright, well, then, we're just gonna put you on this tour of different parts of the company."
[laughter]
06:45 Janet Hart: And he really helped me think about the skills that I was gaining with every job. And I think at one point, he had a finance background. He used an example of, there are multiple different types of accounting, or tax or parts of financing. You can specialize in one part, but it's really still accounting, and so what do you wanna add and build to your skill set? And his concept was, "You could do it again, but it doesn't make your check mark any darker, really." So...
07:17 Amanda Hammett: I love that.
07:21 Janet Hart: Yeah, think about the breadth of what you wanna learn and survey opportunities from that lens.
07:27 Amanda Hammett: I love that he was very aware of that. And do you mind me asking what generation he was from?
07:33 Janet Hart: I think he is in his mid-50s now.
07:38 Amanda Hammett: Okay, alright.
07:39 Janet Hart: Probably a baby boomer, I think.
07:40 Amanda Hammett: Yeah, so I love that he said that about the check mark not being any darker because previous generations, they always thought of their career is very much a ladder and it's always the upward movement. But millennials really look at their career, I consider it more of a lily pad, so jump laterally to laterally. And you're picking up skills along the way, and yes, you're moving up a little bit, but not these one wrung after the other. So I love that, and I've never heard the check-mark thing so...
[laughter]
08:13 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome.
08:14 Janet Hart: He has really stuck with me, and I have said it to more than one person on my team, and it helped me provide coaching guidance to other people like, "Well, what do you really wanna get out of it? Let's think about the components of the job, and not just could you do it every day, but what is gonna be the outcome and benefit to you." So yeah.
08:32 Amanda Hammett: That's so fascinating. So let me ask you this. You mentioned a little bit about your mentor, and I would like to circle back to him or maybe another one a little bit later, but let's talk a little bit about your career and what kind of stumbling blocks have you seen and what... How did you get through them?
08:55 Janet Hart: Yeah. I would say learning, there's always... When you take on something new, there's always a learning dip, and so it's like you go down a little bit and you have to climb back out of that dip. I think that one of the things that I've learned is the importance of perseverance and tenacity and continuing to push through some of those things. Where you have road blocks it's in many of my jobs, it's been about solving something or building something, and so every setback is I have taken the approach of, "Alright, well what are the new conditions? How does that change my thought process, and how can I adapt to that?" And that's something that has really served me well, especially as I've grown in my career, because it's never a hard no, or a total dead end. There's usually a way out or around something. You just gotta be persistent. So that's been a good thing for me. I would say a personal stumbling block, probably has to do with self-confidence, and I have seen other people who have been a little bit more aggressive in pursuing their next career step, going maybe bigger and higher instead of my of zig-zag approach. And I think we talked about this with some of my co-workers on my current team, is that I think it's called the impostor syndrome.
10:30 Amanda Hammett: Oh yeah.
[overlapping conversation]
10:32 Janet Hart: Yeah, and so one of the women in our office went to the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Technology, so Grace Hopper was a pioneer of tech. They have this conference annually, and she attended a session about the impostor syndrome. And she came back to our office, and she's like, "It has a name." She's like, "Everyone, it has a name." And so you could see collective sighs around the room. We're all like, "Yes, okay. We all suffer from this," and it was a great moment for everyone to say, "What do you mean? You do? I never would have thought that you would have self-doubt, or be super hyper-critical of your own work in that way, because it's amazing." So we unofficially formed this network just to be able to talk about it and it was really nice. But I'm still working through that stumbling block.
11:25 Amanda Hammett: Well, honestly, it is something that I have struggled with, and I'm sure that men face this as well, and I know that they do. But I feel like women face it at much higher rates and are a lot more self-critical of themselves. That was... Sorry. But what have you guys since within your team, you have noticed this and you've discussed it, or do you find yourself calling each other out saying, "Hey that was awesome. Don't worry about that," or what are you guys doing about it?
11:57 Janet Hart: We do. So we haven't developed a really formal mechanism to address it yet, but... You know, little things, like in written and email communication when people say, "For what it's worth, this is my opinion," just being able to recognize that even that is a confession to someone else that your opinion's not valid. So it's small stuff like that, that maybe you don't realize is in there. And so, I will say, the woman to the conference, she's like, "You guys should all just read your communications, write them, read them and look for these trigger words, and try to remove them." And it's interesting.
12:37 Amanda Hammett: It is.
12:39 Janet Hart: Surprising.
12:40 Amanda Hammett: Actually, on this same very topic, I interviewed someone earlier this week and she is a sales leader and she's managing a team and one of the things that she had to learn early in her career is to stop apologizing. And she's like, "I teach that and I coach that to new sales reps all the time." She's like, "There's obviously a time and a place where you do need to apologize," but she's like, "You're walking down the hall and somebody's looking on their phone and not paying attention, they bump into you, you don't need to apologize for that." She gave three or four other examples and I was like, "I do that, I do that." [chuckle] So, yeah, I love it. That's fantastic, that is really fantastic. So you mentioned earlier and I'd like to revisit your mentor or another mentor or boss. So is there anything that your boss, current boss, old boss, mentor, co-workers have done that have really kept you engaged and productive and wanting to just keep driving forward?
13:42 Janet Hart: Yeah, so I will say the mentor that I mentioned previously, he was very good about helping me understand the connection of my work to the long-term impact on the business. So not only was I able to learn and add skills but also demonstrated proof and evidence of additional incremental revenue I was able to drive or cost savings and efficiency, and really being able to quantify things.
14:11 Amanda Hammett: That is fantastic.
14:12 Janet Hart: Yeah, and so everything I am doing, it does matter and here's how. Here's how we can show that. So that's what has been really important to me, I really love to see that my work at the end impacts the customer or the company ideally both to the mutual benefit. And I'll say something else that I think is important in my current team is really flexibility. Understanding that life is more integrated with work. And so, sometimes you have appointments with children, and you're taking care of that, but then you're getting online whenever you can. You're getting the work done, and that is what matters more than clocking in at particular times. That's one thing, and then I'll also say, more importantly than that is really safety, to be able to experiment and fail at things and really try and grow. Everything doesn't need to be studied until you know it's going to be perfect before you do it. Some things we should probably just go ahead and do it and see what happens. And so I think that that's a great culture where you can learn, and you might have some positive surprises that you if you had studied further wouldn't get. I'd say just to recap, like tying my work to impact, flexibility of schedule, and safety to experiment and fail, or really succeed.
15:43 Amanda Hammett: That's awesome, I love companies that really encourage that failure piece because, honestly, that is something that millennials did not grow up with in their educational experience, and our culture just didn't support that, that thought process. But now, in order to be successful, in order to innovate, we've got to do that and you guys are the kings and queens of innovation over there. So [chuckle] you gotta expect this is... You're gonna have some great successes and you're gonna have some failures, and that's okay.
16:17 Janet Hart: Yeah.
16:18 Amanda Hammett: I love it.
16:19 Janet Hart: Yeah, failure's scary, it's not fun, but you don't learn, really, if you don't try.
16:26 Amanda Hammett: No, yeah, you're absolutely correct. Alright, I gotta ask. You've worked for some really fantastic companies and you've had multiple jobs, especially at Blackbaud. When you were going through that interview process for any of those positions, do you feel like there was anything in particular about you or a way that you talked about yourself or anything, your resume, whatever, is there anything that really made you stand out to a hiring manager?
17:00 Janet Hart: Oh, that's interesting. I'll say at one point now, because I've had so many different positions. On the plus side, I think people look at me and they're like, "Wow she could do a lot of different things." Someone on my team last year said, called me a Swiss Army knife. Like, "I can ask Janet just about anything and if she doesn't have that deep experience, she knows someone who does." So in a way, I think that that helps me stand out, but on the other hand, I think it can also make it difficult for hiring managers to know exactly how they should use me. It's not as clear that I've had a 15-year career in marketing, therefore I'm gonna go run a demand generation program. There are pros and cons, I think, of my background, but more pros.
17:50 Amanda Hammett: Yeah, I would think so. I would say so, yes.
[chuckle]
17:55 Janet Hart: I think, too, as I mentioned, tying my performance to impacts, those are all on my resume. And I think that that helps. And then I can easily sort of peel the onion back and talk about those, like what was the context of the situation, what did I do, how did it work out, you sort of present the full picture of the accomplishment.
18:16 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely, I think that there's... Especially in those of us that have careers that are more squishy like mine where there's no hard and fast numbers, I think being able to tie numbers and events to what you have brought to the table is phenomenal, and that is something... I've noticed when I sit down with CEOs and I say I bring out dollars and cents, their eyes and their brains start thinking in a completely different direction. They might have seen me in one way but now they're like, "Oh, okay, this is what we need." So, I love that. I love that your mentor really taught you to do that, that is something I feel that's gonna serve you well.
19:00 Janet Hart: Yeah, I don't think it was his quote originally, but he said it often, what gets measured is what gets managed.
19:05 Amanda Hammett: Yes.
19:06 Janet Hart: And so that was drilled in.
[laughter]
19:11 Janet Hart: Never forget that.
[laughter]
19:14 Amanda Hammett: Were you repeating it in your sleep, was it like that?
[laughter]
19:17 Janet Hart: Yeah, I say these things to my daughter.
[laughter]
19:22 Amanda Hammett: I love it.
19:23 Janet Hart: Yes.
19:23 Amanda Hammett: Awesome. Okay, so now, is there anything... You are on the older side of the millennial generation. Is there anything that you're seeing now that you're bringing in new younger employees, is there anything that you wish that they knew as they're starting out their careers?
19:47 Janet Hart: Now that's an interesting question. I think it almost depends on where they are starting their careers, like if they're starting their careers in a role that allows them to have project work and kind of get to a point where they can demonstrate some of that impact versus someone who's starting more in like a frontline role like in customer service for example. I guess I would say no matter what your job is, there's probably opportunity to improve it. And so, being curious about how things work or how things could work in representing that to your leadership team like, "Hey, I identified something, I think this could be better. Here's how I think it could be better." Those are the kinds of things that I think will get associates noticed. It's like someone with some initiative, drive, curiosity, and who wants to add that value. It's more than just coming in and doing the job. Those are the things that I would recommend.
20:49 Amanda Hammett: That's I think really awesome advice, really, really awesome advice. Actually, I'm getting ready to go talk at a university and they always ask me questions just like that and so I think that that was a perfect answer.
21:04 Janet Hart: Okay.
[laughter]
21:05 Amanda Hammett: Perfect, I might borrow from you.
[laughter]
21:07 Janet Hart: Sure.
21:08 Amanda Hammett: I'll totally give you credit.
21:09 Janet Hart: Yeah, no worries.
[laughter]
21:11 Amanda Hammett: Well, wonderful, wonderful, Janet. Well, we're gonna wrap up, but if anybody from the audience wanted to reach out to you on LinkedIn, would that be okay with you?
21:19 Janet Hart: Yeah, definitely.
21:21 Amanda Hammett: Perfect, perfect. Well, I will include your LinkedIn profile link into the show notes and otherwise I thank you guys so much for joining us for another episode of Millennial Rockstars, and of course with our lovely rock star today, Janet Hart. Thank you so much.
21:38 Janet Hart: Thank you.
21:39 Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar Podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below, it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis, because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 08: Fighting the Millennial Imposter Syndrome for Career Growth appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
How do you hire millennial rockstars? Every company goes into the hiring process hoping to find a millennial rockstar. Unfortunately, most of the time they simply find someone who can do the job. But what if the aim became more to find the "right" person instead of any person? In this episode, you'll learn about how this millennial's manager knew she was hiring a millennial rockstar.
Danny Schneider is a National Inside Sales Supervisor, 3PL at Saia Inc. Saia is an American trucking company, or a less than truckload trucking company, that originated in Houma, Louisiana in 1924. With original operation occurring in Louisiana and Texas for the first fifty years, expansion came after 1980 when coverage began reaching into more states within the South.
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The Transcript - How to Hire a Millennial Rockstar **00:02 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast.
00:06 AH: Today on the Millennial Rockstars podcasts I interviewed Danny Schneider. And Danny is a rockstar. And this episode talks a lot about how do you spot that rockstar before you even hire them? Now, funny thing is, Danny was nominated by Jamie Salter who I interviewed a few episodes back. But she knew when she saw his resume and when she met him for the first time that he was going to be a rockstar even though he was A, still in college and B, guess what? Danny had zero work experience. But Jamie knew he was gonna be a rockstar, and guess what? She was right. So, tune in and check out this episode with Danny and you can learn how to spot a rockstar for yourself.
00:51 AH: Hey there, this is Amanda Hammett. I am known as The Millennial Translator® because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And today, you're with us on the Millennial Rockstar podcast. And today's rockstar is Danny Schneider. Welcome to the show, Danny.
01:06 Danny Schneider: Thank you Amanda. Thank you for having me.
01:09 AH: I am super excited to talk to you. The person that actually nominated you is really awesome and she's a really awesome Rockstar Millennial herself. So, Danny tell us a little bit about you.
01:22 DS: Well, don't tell her that too much. It's just between me and you. [chuckle] Like you mentioned or I don't know if you did actually, so I work for Saia LTL Freight. I have been working here for over two years now, actually. I graduated from Western Carolina University and was hired by that person that you talked about Jamie Salter. She brought me on to her team and little work experience actually, pretty much no work experience. And I've been working with Saia ever since. And I had a couple of promotions along the way and yeah, really enjoyed my time here. Been kind of a brief career but just getting started.
02:03 AH: That's awesome, that's awesome. Well, Jamie had nothing but just high praises to sing about you. So, when she started talking about you I was like, "Alright, I've got to have him on the show as well." Alright, so tell us a little bit about your background. You mentioned that you are a fairly recent to the career. Tell us a little bit about what... You're in sales so tell us a little bit about how you went from college into sales?
02:27 DS: Yeah, so it's an interesting transition. So, like I mentioned little work experience that's really throughout my life. I was actually an athlete for the majority of my life, throughout high school I played three sports. And then I got to college and played collegiate baseball. So, that essentially in itself a lot of college athletes out there then, they know that's pretty much a full-time job. So, did that for four years and had a great time. But then it was the shoulder kind of blew out a little bit and it was time to move on to the, I guess real world you could say.
03:00 AH: Okay.
03:01 DS: So, I was fortunate enough to get in contact with Jamie and Saia, actually the summer before I graduated. And we had spoken about an opportunity that didn't go through actually. They had filled the slots out by the time I interviewed so that was actually my first little rejection. But it came around and by the time I graduated I got back in contact with Jamie and her... And then also the manager there, Mike Basso. They brought me on board and that transition from going to no work experience at all to come into the corporate lifestyle and I'm working in sales. It was different. I didn't know what to expect. But I actually quickly found, Amanda, that a lot of my traits and things that I've picked up in sports translated over and translated over into sales.
03:57 AH: What exactly were those? What do you think really helped?
04:00 DS: I can say definitely this is a combination of just how I am and then what I've gathered from sports. But competitiveness is definitely number one. Especially in sales you wanna be the most competitive person there. You want to win and that's really what I try to bring every day. It gives you a lot of tools in college baseball specifically, preparation, understanding really what work goes into being successful, trying to do more than the person you're competing against. So those are some of the top two things that I've taken away. There's other thing, teamwork. That's also extremely important. Being able to be coachable which mostly cause...
04:44 AH: That's a good one.
04:45 DS: Yeah, I think that's been real big for me coming into the work space and like I said a little experience so try to be as big of a sponge as possible.
04:55 AH: That's awesome. That's great. And I really think that that coachability takes... Will take any employee really really far even employees that maybe don't have that natural knack or talent for whatever the role is. That ability to take in coaching not take it personally and just say, "Okay, how can I improve?" That is one of the main things that I look for when I go into a company and say, "Okay, these are kind of the skill sets you need to be looking for in the interview process." That is in the top five.
05:23 DS: Yeah. No, I've found that to be extremely helpful. I mean in my industry there's people of a lot of different ages and actually most people I deal with have been in the industry probably as long as I've been alive. But what I've found is that you've never been around too much as to kind of learn new things. We have our annual conferences or whether it's gonna someone fairly new like me or someone that's been around and for 30 years, you can always learn new things and taking criticism or taking coaching the right way can definitely translate in a good, in a positive manner.
05:57 AH: I agree. I couldn't agree more. So let's talk about... We talked a little bit about what things have worked for you so far and granted you're pretty young in your career, which is awesome. That you're already... Have some rockstar status, but have you found that there's certain things that just have not worked for you in your career? Whether it's just certain work styles, management styles anything like that.
06:27 DS: As far as management styles go, I haven't run into that quite yet.
06:32 AH: Good for you.
06:32 DS: And no that's not just 'cause Jamie is probably listening or other managers are probably listening [laughter] but going back to the sports back, you're used to different coaching, different management styles so you adapt to that and again you try to take the positives out of that. Really, I guess the road block that I would say that I've run into alludes to what I was talking about earlier is dealing with people with experience and overcoming the thoughts of, "Okay. You have inexperience, you're young." That type of deal, "You really don't know what you're talking about," or, "I might be better suited off with someone that's been working in this industry a lot longer." Something along those lines. That's something kind of how I struggle or not struggle, but I run into with my customers versus more internally and adjusting the corporate or the work lifestyle.
07:27 AH: Okay, I mean that's totally fair. And to be completely honest with you, I am way more advanced in my career than you are and I still run into that.
07:38 DS: Exactly. And I hear that with my direct manager right now. I think he's technically a millennial, as well, but one of the olders I guess you could say, but he ran into that in his career and that was something he had to overcome. And I've gotten that objection quite a bunch... A bunch of times. So it's something I'm still learning to work with something I really can't control, and to be honest, but just finding other ways to work with customers and get them to understand that. I'm in my role for a reason, and the position I was given people are trusting me to do the job. So if we can move past it, let's go for it.
08:20 AH: Awesome, awesome, alright. So let's go back to Danny in college and Danny thinking about going into the working world and into the real world when you go back and you think about that time and the way that you envisioned corporate America or the working world, is there a difference between the way you envisioned it and the reality of the working world, and what was that difference?
08:50 DS: So the main thing is going from a college, college student, a college athlete on the demand for it. So, like I alluded to playing college baseball was a full-time job I feel like and it required a lot of hours, but really getting up doing your 8:00 to 5:00 or even later getting... Some days I'm here 11-12 hours in this office kind of that demanding and being able to function and get in the zone and work that long that was something that honestly, I was not really... I didn't know how I would handle it. Again, I felt pretty confident in myself at first, because of my background and just maybe more of my personality, but that was one of the things that I had reserves about is just, "Hey, can I get to work and be functional by 8 O'clock?" That type of deal. And then also just stepping into an industry like freight which I had no experience in, had no family or anything like that in the freight industry and learning everything that I can. Obviously, there's so much out there with this industry that I could be in it for years and years, and I'll still be learning things.
10:05 AH: Yep.
10:06 DS: But specifically to this industry is understanding what I'm selling, understanding how I can best help my customers and turn it around into something that'll be... That'll work out for my company and their company. So it was all brand new to me. So kind of a long answer short, just everything was new Amanda and I had to get used to that and any time you do something new, I guess, inside, whether you admit it or not there's reserves or you're gonna have some questions but it's 'cause overcoming this.
10:40 AH: Okay, that's awesome, alright. Now let's talk a little bit about your boss.
10:45 DS: Okay.
10:45 AH: Or your old boss Jamie.
10:48 DS: Okay.
10:49 AH: Feel free to just go there about them. [laughter]
10:51 DS: Oh I'll be honest.
10:55 AH: Is there anything that your current boss, your old boss Jamie or maybe a mentor has really done to keep you engaged to keep you productive and to keep you driving forward? Because sales can be, it can be rough.
11:10 DS: Yeah.
11:11 AH: And so is there anything that they've done that really has helped you just keep going?
11:16 DS: Yeah, I'll go on both. I'll talk about former management, Jamie and then a gentleman by then name of Mike Basso that I referred to earlier. Talk about what they did. They got me to where I am and then what my current manager does.
11:30 AH: Okay.
11:30 DS: So as far as Jamie goes and Mike goes. I think what helped me the most was just a belief, like I told you, I've showed him a resume and it said it, sports essentially. And then I could turn that into an interview, but having the thought of alright we see that you're worth this investment, and bringing you on board you know we're size a billion and a half dollar company, so it's a big corporation. There are a lot of plans here, but to trust in me like that and not just, "Hey, we're gonna bring you on board." But continuing, as I was working there, as I had questions, and I ran into things, both Mike and Jamie did a great job of believing me. And then the position that I'm in currently, which is a national account representative, I went from the sales development side, and then I took a brief little project promotion type deal, and then when Jamie was the head of the department for a little bit, I was stuck is because the project had run out and I had done a fairly successful job as a sales development rep, so Jamie approached me as far as this position. It had been something that was open. And some of the executives at our company here, really wanted to push this position as something that could be important for our company.
12:53 DS: So Jamie approached me, and I really hadn't thought of applying for this and said, "I really think you should take a look at this. I really think you'd be a good fit. You've done a good job and other things." So it really was her approaching me and then realizing, "You know what? Yeah, I can work with some of these companies that are doing millions of dollars of revenue a year. I can take this step." And so having that confidence in me, I think from a coaching, from a management standpoint, that is definitely something that's worked and so with my current management, we've... Jamie, of course has gotten another opportunity and isn't with Saia, but I have someone in here that worked with Jamie. He's been around the industry for a while, and then we also have a new director in town.
13:43 DS: So I have two bosses I say I work closely with. But from that standpoint, well works for me and I enjoy challenge. Competitiveness, like I referred to earlier, they're always willing to lay down a challenge and it's while I may... I had a great year last year. And while they're praising me for that it's like, "What are we gonna do in 2018? We have goals and gotta step it up a little bit." So it's a contrast of throwing those challenges at me and knowing that I can take those in stride and be coachable in what I have to do to hit my numbers, but that's something that I really enjoy, is not over-hitting on it where it's, you need to be at this number, if not, there's some pressure on it, but great job last year. Now how are we gonna turn this into more? How are we gonna grow more, get more rep? But, and the same goes with this current management that Jamie had with me, is the belief in me, giving me different capabilities and being flexible with my position, letting me do things that will help me out. That's along the lines.
14:57 AH: Okay, that's really cool. So would you say that your current management, they're putting out these challenges to you and really appealing to that competitive nature within you, but are they also helping you along the way, or is it just like, "Hey this is what it is, go for it." Or are they giving you that...
15:16 DS: Oh no doubt. Yeah, no doubt. There's help along the ways, and I'm glad you're bringing that up 'cause again, that's something that can go towards your last question. The manager that worked with Jake more directly, he has more experience and he's becoming more hands-on my accounts. If I ever need to bring someone in on conference calling. I'm trying to maybe close the deal, just to have the manager on the phone or have the manager on the call. That presence can go a long way, so Jake's very hands-on with that. And then any time I really have a question, like I said, coming brand new into the industry, the more you're in freight, the more you realize you don't know. [laughter] So just being open to advising on what I need to know mainly about the industry, mainly about experiences that they have had in the past. I think that's something that really helps me out.
16:15 AH: Perfect. That's awesome. That's really good. So is there anything that Saia as a company, or the culture within your team, is there anything that they do, whether it's perks, whether it's benefits or it's just that team culture that they do that really helps you to create the sense of loyalty to Saia and to your team?
16:38 DS: Yeah, well it's the fact that you have the opportunity. Like I mentioned, it's a very large company and they've been around for over 90 years and still growing pretty fast, actually. A lot of expansion here lately, so it's the fact that you have that opportunity to grow. There are endless possibilities. Right now I'm in sales. I started off in the sales development role in inside sales, an entry level job, but there's a ton of different directions that I'm able to go.
17:11 AH: Okay.
17:11 DS: My particular position, is the only one within our company. We have over 9000 employees, and I have the only national account representative position that works with just third-party logistics companies. I have that, and so it gives me the flexibility while I'm in a corporate office with four floors of Saia members to individualize my role. So I get to do things my way. I get to bring new ideas to the table and help expand on that. And Saia again, for an old large company which you don't normally see, they have the flexibility to say, "Yeah, that makes sense. That would actually help us out," whatever it might be. You can do it on the environment.
17:57 DS: Within my department they really do a good job as far as keeping everyone engaged, setting goals for everyone. It's not just me they're challenging. We're bringing on new position, always thinking of new ideas, different ways to service our customers. And so that really keeps everyone on their toes, I guess you could say. And the demographic that they've gone after in the past is more recent out of college, or into the mid-to-late '20s type deal. So a lot of millennials in my department as well and inside sales specifically is an extremely part... Or extremely big part of what we have going forward in 2018.
18:43 AH: That's awesome.
18:44 DS: Yeah.
18:45 AH: That's really cool. So you mentioned something. I'd like to circle back to it in this last question. You mentioned something when you have an idea, you bring a new idea to the table, they're like, "Alright, let's go for it." So do you find that they are very open and willing to not only take new ideas and run with them but also to help you brainstorm and think outside the box? Are they willing to think outside the box?
19:09 DS: Yeah. I think if... From my perspective, 'cause if I bring it to my direct manager, and a lot of times it might mean getting something approved, getting something... Investing a little bit more money. Like, for instance, this new laptop I was telling you a little earlier about, things like that. But they do as long as it makes sense, as long as I can present it. And the fact is, "Hey, you know, I'd really think this would good for me or this would be nice to have," or something like that. If I can present it in a fact of, "This is the return that we're gonna get as a company, and this is what I see helping us improve or the benefits to Saia as a company and to me and my numbers," that's something they're very receptive to.
19:57 AH: Alright. So as long as you can build the business case, they're willing to back you up?
20:01 DS: Yeah, it goes like that as far internally and with my customers. 'Cause if I'm just sitting here saying, "Hey, we can get you a little better price, or we can get you in the ball park," that's really not gonna give me a ton. Or it's not really gonna go a long ways. You wanna show what the value is, the... Your people all the time talk about ROI, things like that, but it goes internally and externally, as well.
20:23 AH: I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. Alright, so you've touched on a few of these things, but I want you to spell them out. And Jamie and I actually had an offline conversation about this before when she nominated you. So I already know what you are...
20:39 DS: Alright. [laughter]
20:41 AH: But what is it that you think made you stand out? Because you admittedly came into the workforce with a resume that was basically I was a college athlete with no work experience, whatsoever. But Jamie, from my understanding, like knew immediately you were a rockstar, and she was determined to get you on her team. What was it that made you stand out? What do you think?
21:06 DS: I joke with her too, 'cause like I said, the first time we talked she rejected me. So then she came back and asked me to be on board. And it's like, "Is she gonna just bring me in again and tell me no?" So I always joke with her about that, and she'll tell me she is like, "I really wanted to have you. I really wanted to have you." But I can really say, Amanda, what sets me apart, and I think I briefly mentioned this earlier, is the work that I wanna put in, the work as far as learning my position, learning my industry, working for my customers. This is not really an 8:00 to 5:00 job. And that's what I brought to the table as far as my athlete background. I know how to outwork my competition. That's something you don't just show up whether it's baseball, whether it's your job, whatever it is, you don't just show up and outperform someone. You have to put in the work.
22:01 DS: So whether, like I said, just being willing or willing to invest in myself, in my career, that's something that Jamie and Mike Basso really installed in me. But the hard work, working sometimes till 10 o'clock at night, not just, I'm not here working for 16 hours a day or whatever it might be... But I really need to get this proposal in on time, or I really need to check the statistics for one of my customers to see how we've been doing as far as the service goes so I'm prepared for that 8:00 AM call. That is really something that I can really advocate for myself is I'm gonna outwork anyone.
22:47 AH: Okay. That's perfect. And so what do you think it was on your resume that really stood out that Jamie was like, "I need to call this guy out of all the hundreds of other resumes." What was it?
23:00 DS: Yeah. I don't know if it was something on my resume, but the fact that what Jamie was looking for as far as in inside sales and my first conversation was over the phone and what the job they're looking for me. It was essentially cold-calling, a lot of over-the-phone stuff. So it's how I sounded to customers, how I was able to speak. Being confident, I think that's another big trait that comes into play, whether you're new to an industry and a job or not, but to have the confidence in yourself to know that you can get the job done. I think that's something that Jamie would have picked up on right away. And that's another reason she would have had me come right back in for the interview. I know the second interview process was very, very short because it was Jamie getting me back in here and it's like, "I liked what I saw in the summer. We didn't have room, but now we do. Please, we would like to have you come on board." And again, the confidence and knowing my abilities and trying to grow as a salesman, grow as a professional, that's something I think Jamie would have picked up on.
24:08 AH: Alright, so is there anything that you wish... And I don't know how many other companies you interviewed with, at any point, but is there anything that you wish that companies knew about the interview process, and hiring younger employees?
24:25 DS: So I did not really get to interview with too many other companies.
24:29 AH: Okay.
24:30 DS: To be honest I was... It was like a week after I graduated.
24:34 AH: Okay.
24:34 DS: I got fortunate there.
24:35 AH: You did [laughter] You got...
24:36 DS: Yeah I know and two and a half years later on going on three years, it's worked out. But something I think just to not overlook you look down, you see that like I said, you see the lack of experience, you see someone's maybe inability or someone's inexperience in a particular industry, not just a job but to not overlook someone kind of their characteristics as far as who they are and what they're willing to do. And you can kinda tell, 'cause I've actually had the ability to interview people to come work for Saia so the ability to sit on the other side of that chair. But when someone says, "No, I'm willing to work hard." You can take that in stride but when they can tell you, "I know that preparation goes into this, I know that sometimes I'm gonna have to work longer or do more than what's expected of me." You don't wanna just be at status quo, you don't wanna be at goal, you wanna be above goal.
25:39 DS: So the ability to judge a person and how far they're willing to go, and what they're willing to do. I really hope that that's something that companies aren't overlooking because otherwise, if you're looking at someone's experience, you're looking at a resume you're really just looking for something to wow you before the interview then that's not gonna work too much, but and I'm sure most companies aren't that way. And like I said, my own experience, maybe coming here as far as how much I've interviewed, it's mainly been internally with Saia, but just trying to judge a person's character more than their actual profession.
26:21 AH: Alright, at the end of the day, when you're hiring young employees who are fresh out of college, they're not gonna have a ton of experience they might have a bunch of part-time jobs or they might have a bunch of internships, but you know...
26:35 DS: Yeah.
26:36 AH: What are you gathering from that?
26:38 DS: Like I technically had an internship in college. It was through one of my senior classes it was one of those deals but that didn't define me too much as far as my professional life.
26:51 AH: Absolutely, absolutely, well, fantastic Danny, this has been really awesome. And I think that this will give a lot of really great insight into... For other companies when they're looking at hiring millennial rockstars themselves. So Danny is it okay if our audience wants to reach out to you on LinkedIn.
27:07 DS: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Connect with me, ask me any questions. More than willing to talk and meet new people.
27:13 AH: Fantastic, well I will include a link to your profile in the show notes for the show. Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Millennial Rockstars and Danny Schneider thank you so much for being on it.
27:25 DS: No thank you Amanda, I appreciate it.
27:27 AH: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstars podcast if you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below, it's amandahammett.com there you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis, because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
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Mentoring Millennials is regarded in corporate America as a "nice" thing to do, but often is overlooked in the controlled chaos. However for millennials, mentorship is a way to help them translate what they learned in college into real world experience. But the benefits of mentoring millennials does not end there. Studies have proven that mentors who are 86% more engaged in their own role within the company.
Jordan Strait Donovan is a Business Support Analyst at Valvoline Inc. Valvoline Inc. (NYSE: VVV) is a leading worldwide marketer and supplier of premium branded lubricants and automotive services, with sales in more than 140 countries. Established in 1866, the company’s heritage spans more than 150 years, during which it has developed powerful brand recognition across multiple product and service channels. Valvoline ranks as the No. 3 passenger car motor oil brand in the DIY market by volume.
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The Transcript - The Value of Millennial Mentorship **00:00 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, and this is the Millennial Rockstars podcast. Alright, in today's episode, I have Jordan Donovan, from Valvoline, and she's gonna break some major millennial moulds right up front, because she has been at Valvoline since the day she graduated from college, 13 years ago. So I want you to listen in and find out how Jordan learned to step up and make herself known instead of just waiting and hoping that her hard work was gonna get her the recognition that she deserves. Join us in the episode.
00:31 Amanda Hammett: Hey there, this is Amanda Hammett, The Millennial Translator®. Thank you so much for joining us today. We actually have someone also from Valvoline. This is Jordan Donovan. Jordan, how are you today?
00:43 Jordan Donovan: I'm good, thanks for letting me call in.
00:45 Amanda Hammett: Oh you're so welcome, thanks for coming in. So tell us a little bit about you, Jordan.
00:52 Jordan Donovan: I have been working for Valvoline for about 13 years in a variety of roles. I'm a Lexington, Kentucky native, so I've pretty much been here since high school, and college, just a short 20 minutes away.
01:05 Amanda Hammett: Oh, nice.
01:06 Jordan Donovan: Yes, I'm a mom to a five-year old little girl and three-year old little boy.
01:10 Amanda Hammett: Oh, fun, fun, fun, fun. So, alright, I know that you've done a variety of things since you've been at Valvoline. Tell us about that very first role transitioning out of college in the classroom into the real world, so to speak. What was that like? What was that first role, and what was that like for you?
01:36 Jordan Donovan: Well, when I left college, I came over to Valvoline and started working in customer service. And my father had also worked for the company so I kind of got my foot in the door to get some jobs, and just some good experience working in customer service learning how to deal with conflict management and problem solving. So it was a very good experience. I worked for there about a year and then was able to be promoted into some additional roles.
02:04 Amanda Hammett: That's really, really cool. I love that you did the customer service route because I think that a lot of times people come in and they're like, "Oh I don't wanna do customer service, that's not cool," or not whatever, but I really think that customer service gives you a good broad view of the company in general, but also dealing with the general public. Because end of the day, you gotta do it. You know, you've gotta...
02:27 Jordan Donovan: Right. [laughter]
02:27 Amanda Hammett: Deal with the general public. So that's really, really, really cool. So now you've been again with Valvoline for quite a while. The national average or millennials are often made fun of for job hopping. 13 years is not exactly what I would consider job hopping though.
02:47 Jordan Donovan: That's true.
02:47 Amanda Hammett: So you've [laughter] been there a little while. Have you had any stumbling blocks so far in your career, in those 13 years?
02:58 Jordan Donovan: If you look at my resume, most of the jobs I was in for about three years before I moved on. Some of those, I definitely think, gave me the skill sets that I was able to use for future roles, but I think some of my mentality for the first few years was my work will be my track record and they'll see that and promote me. But the last probably, couple of years, as I've built some mentor relationships, they've been teaching me, you gotta own your career, you gotta get out there, put your foot in the door and try to get a head above everyone. So having mentors, I think has definitely helped me with some of the stumbling blocks that I faced in prior years just because I have champions now who are bringing my name to the table in some discussions and giving me project work or working with my current supervisors to just showcase some of my skills. So that's probably helped me in the last few years where in past, I probably was like, "I'll just work really hard, and they'll promote me eventually." That didn't always work, I think.
04:00 Amanda Hammett: Oh, that's wonderful. I'm sorry you had to go through that experience of not figuring that out, but I'm so glad that you did figure out this getting a mentor. I think mentorship is one of the things that I advocate most for. I think, that is incredibly important on both sides of the table, whether you're the mentor or the mentee. But tell me, Jordon, how did you get this first mentor? Tell me how that came about.
04:25 Jordan Donovan: So my boss in a former role, she kinda moved into a different role, and we started a mentor program here. So we kinda kicked off a pilot program, and they matched people up with skill sets. So one of the things I wanted to work on was command skills. Just being able to present in front of an audience and have confidence. And there was only one person that also checked that as a strength. So we got paired up and just through conversations, they helped provide a little bit of feedback on opportunities I could work on for my command skills. It's always a work in progress for me, but I definitely think they've helped strengthen that skill set.
05:03 Amanda Hammett: That is amazing. I love that you knew this about yourself, and that you did something about... To further that skill, regardless of the fear because I know that the thought of presenting in front of people is scary to most people. I do it a lot, so it's different for me but most people, it's a major fear. And I'm glad that you attacked it head on. That's really cool. And I think that that's really good for your career as well. Have you noticed a difference now in your growing comfort level with giving presentations in front of people, have you noticed a difference? And I don't really know the right word I'm trying to use here, but have you noticed a difference in how you feel like you're perceived by other people, especially the people above you?
05:52 Jordan Donovan: Yes, and I think just kind of owning my work and presenting it too. Where, probably in past years, I'm like, "I'll do this presentation. I'll do this analysis, and I'll hand it off." I've been trying to take those opportunities to say, "Can I go present that? Can I have that experience?" And I probably stumbled through several of them, but I think as I said, I'm getting better and more confident with each one. So continuing to volunteer for those opportunities when they arise.
06:18 Amanda Hammett: And there is no substitute for that face time because a lot of times when people above you, when they're thinking about a presentation, even if it was a group effort, they tend to remember the person that actually presented it; whether they did none of the work or all of the work, that's the person that they most associate. It's that's facial recognition, and they have put that face with that group. So good for you for stepping up and for going forward with that. Now, have you had any other relationships with mentors, or is it just this one?
06:50 Jordan Donovan: So like I said, this year, I sat with my mentor and I was like, "I kinda wanna branch across. I thought maybe I'd like some marketing or some digital experience in my next five to 10-year career plan." So about a year ago, I added an additional mentor in the marketing department. So she's director of one of our brands. So we meet quarterly. We've been busy. There's been a lot of changes going on this year, so we probably haven't met as regular. And then, I added in a VP as well. So we were gonna meet quarterly, twice a year. We were gonna try to meet occasionally. He ended up leaving the company, so I'm kind of searching for that again. But just getting their feedback, how they kinda navigated their career paths, some stumbling blocks they may have had to watch out, and just getting their feedback on things they may have learned from that I can use to my advantage.
07:37 Amanda Hammett: Absolutely. I think that that is... I think that you're doing it; that's fantastic. The feedback that you're willing to take, and just putting yourself out there in new and different roles; that's serious growth, and that's where a lot of things start. So I feel like women in particular tend to be a little more, "Oh, I'm gonna let my work speak for itself." And although you might be the best person at this particular job, sometimes it's the person that puts themself out there that is the one that gets the promotion or the one that gets the recognition. So good for you. Good for you for doing that. I love it. So now... Is there anything that... We've talked about the mentors. Is there anything that a particular boss in the past, and in your various roles, or maybe even a co-worker has done that really keeps you engaged, or keeps you really wanting to get out there and do good work for Valvoline?
08:38 Jordan Donovan: I've been fortunate that I've had great leaders in most of my roles, and as I've kind of made efficiencies and processes and had additional bandwidth, I can reach out to them to say, "You know, I'd really like to cross-train on a different product line, or pick up some project work." So they've always been open to that. Our company is great; they do tuition reimbursement. So I had worked here about a year, and I decided I'd like to go back to school and they paid for my MBA. So they're amazing about those opportunities. And then, most jobs, there's been certifications or skillsets that we can do. So I did my... When I worked in pricing, I became a certified pricing manager. When I was in supply chain, I worked on my APICS certification. And then right now, we've been having some negotiations, looking for opportunities to certify some product line management. So they're always willing, I feel like to go the extra mile to train us to be more proficient in our job.
09:31 Amanda Hammett: That's really cool. Now, besides the additional training, and continuing education, and the tuition reimbursement, that's fantastic.
[laughter]
09:40 Amanda Hammett: Is there anything else that you can think of that Valvoline offers, as far as benefits or perks that has just been... That makes you feel like, "Hey, they see me as a human. They want me to do my best." Is there anything...
09:56 Jordan Donovan: Well, like I said, if you look at my resume, I've been here 13 years. They typically promote within, when possible, so I feel like that's kind of a leg up over external candidates. The tuition reimbursement. We're heavily involved in the community; we do the Habitat builds every year, the Big Brothers Big Sisters. They offered a SOAR programs. So I did a shortened version of the SOAR women's leadership training. And then, through our women's networking program here, I've been able to attend several conferences for Women Leading Kentucky, and so forth. So just to network with women outside the organization. So just trading stories and successes, so that's been good too.
10:36 Amanda Hammett: Oh, actually, that's how I came into Valvoline, was through your women's group. So it's a great little group. Not little, actually, it's not little at all. [chuckle] But it's wonderful. You guys do a lot of really fantastic things at Valvoline as far as just building company loyalty to the company with the employees, and things like that. I noticed that when I was walking around that you could just see a sense of people were happy to be there. That's not always the case.
11:08 Jordan Donovan: Our new building is fabulous. So it's very modern and high-tech, so I think everyone's loving that too. [chuckle]
11:15 Amanda Hammett: It is. It is quite beautiful. It's quite beautiful actually. So now, is there anything that... Obviously, you've been there a little while, but is there anything as an older millennial that we...
[chuckle]
11:31 Amanda Hammett: Is there anything that you wish that the younger millennials or even up-and-coming Gen Z, is there anything that you wish that they knew as they were matriculating into the workforce?
11:40 Jordan Donovan: I think, just take opportunities, volunteer for things. When you come in, just have an open mind and a good positive attitude. I think that's gotten me pretty far. I think I'm easy to work with, I think people can approach me for questions, and if I don't know the answer, I can try to help them, or navigate them to someone who might. And like I said, probably three of my five roles here have been brand new to Valvoline, so no script was written, but I was willing to walk in and develop that so it was a learning together with my manager. But just being open to that.
12:15 Amanda Hammett: And this is totally kinda plays into that. But did failure and just trying to figure things out as you went along because if it was completely new and there was no script, there probably were some things that didn't work out so well, right?
12:31 Jordan Donovan: Right. So I guess I kind of developed that playbook by trial and elimination. So there's definitely things I learned from to avoid and you make mistakes as you're learning. They were new jobs so I think people were a little bit more open-minded, but it has, like I said, developed me and strengthened me for future roles just having that learning curve, I guess.
12:53 Amanda Hammett: I love it. I love it. I love when you're in and you have an opportunity to actually fail and sometimes that's the most freeing thing because you're like, "Alright. Well, that didn't work, so let's just get up and brush ourselves off and keep going." So gotta do it.
13:06 Jordan Donovan: Yes.
13:08 Amanda Hammett: That's fantastic. Well, is there anything that you wish that companies did that made the hiring process a little bit better? But let me actually change that up a little bit. The hiring process as you guys are bringing in new people, how it affects you. Is there anything that you wish that Valvoline, for instance, knew about that, how that affects you as a clerk?
13:38 Jordan Donovan: I think for us, just in some of the interview process, some of ours can be formal, they're more panel interviews. So I think sometimes we've been steering those away and point even more towards looking at their skill set, looking at their work experience or their past experiences if they're an internal candidate and just trying to leverage that more than just how they might interview or how they may look on a resume, how they work in real life situations.
14:05 Amanda Hammett: Right. And you guys do so much internal promotion, which is just phenomenal. I love it. So very cool.
14:14 Jordan Donovan: And for millennials, I think we have so many coming in. I laugh, I used to be the young one here and I'm like, "Now, I've been replaced by this whole new generation coming in." But I feel like they have so much insight and new ideas and they're just like a fresh breath to some... A lot of us have been here several years, so I think they can offer some unique perspective. I also laugh because I feel like so many of them that have these awesome internships they've had and this higher education. They come with so much to the table from the beginning.
14:43 Amanda Hammett: Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. [chuckle] Later today I have a meeting, there's a university here in Atlanta that is doing a study on women entrepreneurs, and they reached out to me wanting me to be one of their study subjects and I was like, "Oh." And I was expecting this was like a graduate study. No, this is a first semester freshmen students. [laughter] I was like, "Okay." Well we'll just...
15:14 Jordan Donovan: Like I'll look at some resumes of who we've interviewed. And I'm like, "They have amazing experiences already."
15:20 Amanda Hammett: Yeah. Absolutely. It is amazing some of the things that they're doing before they even get into the workforce, so it's just what can they do once they get there?
15:31 Jordan Donovan: Right. Yes.
15:33 Amanda Hammett: Wonderful. Well, Jordan, I really appreciate all of your insights. I love that you have had all this wonderful longevity at Valvoline. Very much breaking a stereotypical millennial mold there. So thank you, thank you, thank you for that and thank you for sharing with our audience about all of your experience and the ups and downs, and the not so fun parts of growing in your career. I love it. Is it okay if our audience reaches out to you on LinkedIn?
16:05 Jordan Donovan: Yes, I would love that.
16:06 Amanda Hammett: Well, perfect. I will put a link to your LinkedIn account in the show notes, but otherwise Jordan, it has been my pleasure. Thank you.
16:14 Jordan Donovan: Thank you so much. [chuckle]
16:16 Amanda Hammett: Bye. Thank you.
16:17 Jordan Donovan: Bye.
16:19 Amanda Hammett: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below; it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free Millennial Employee Engagement Guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 06: The Value of Millennial Mentorship appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Mentoring Millennials is now more important than ever. The fate of our economy is focused on the transfer of knowledge from older generations to the millennial and gen z generations. That transfer of knowledge can easily be passed from Baby Boomers and Gen X'ers through mentoring millennials and Gen Z's. A good mentor relationship is a major foundational step to the long term success of our next generations.
Anna Burkhart Turner is a Product Leader at Ultimate Software. She has experienced product management leader with expertise in building market-leading HCM products and growing strong product teams.
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The Transcript - Why Early Career Mentoring is Critical to Long Term Success for Millennials **00:01 Amanda Hammett:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstars Podcast.
Hey and welcome to this episode of the Millennial Rockstar Podcast. Today's rock star is Anna Turner, who's in product development for a technology company. Now this is a super fantastic interview that I really, really enjoyed, because one of the best stories that Anna shared with us was about a mentor that she had early on in her career, and actually the lessons that that mentor taught her are still lessons that Anna uses today in her career. Now, not only that, but there is... She also shares with us a story about a boss who came later, who showed Anna an incredible sense of grace and flexibility when Anna really needed it the most. You see, Anna at the time was a mom to two young kids under the age of two and we all know when you're trying to deal with two kids under the age of two, you're basically just trying to survive. So Anna tells us all about that, what that time was like for her in her career and how her boss used that opportunity to instill a sense of loyalty in Anna. I can't wait for you to hear all about it.
01:06 AH: My name is Amanda Hammett, I am known as the millennial translator®, because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And today, speaking of top millennial talent on the Millennial Rockstar Podcast, we have Anna Turner. Anna, welcome to the show.
01:21 Anna Turner: Thanks Amanda for having me.
01:23 AH: I'm so excited to talk to you. Anna, why don't you just get us started, tell us a little bit about you.
01:29 AT: Sure. So, I'm Anna Turner. I work for an HR technology company, and I have been in software for my entire career, so I've been in high tech and have been in a role called product management and our role is really to figure out what types of things we want to build, new features, new products and to make that happen.
01:51 AH: That's really kind of an important but awesome role all at the same time. So tell us a little bit about how you... How did this come about, I mean when you were in college did you say, "Man, I wanna develop software".
02:06 AT: No, I did not. I, coming out of college knew that I wanted to move to Charleston, South Carolina, which is where I live now and at that time, the company that I was looking at, I was thinking about going into sales back then. The company here that I was looking at was called Blackbaud and it is software for nonprofits and that was my first job. So I actually ended up going into HR as a recruiter and while I was in HR as a recruiter doing college recruiting, so we hired about 80 to 100 new college grads every year to come work for our company as software engineers, or sales people, or consultants, I had an opportunity to learn about what product management was and why it's an important role in software and fell in love with the idea of working in that job and eventually got an opportunity to start as a junior person in that department.
03:00 AH: That's really cool. Now was that also with Blackbaud?
03:02 AT: Yes.
03:03 AH: Awesome, awesome. Now, I will tell you that of course to be on the show, you have to be nominated by someone that you have worked for or with or maybe someone you've been in a vendor relationship with. But the person that nominated you actually was from your days in Blackbaud and she is somebody that I respect tremendously but she... She had so many great things to say about you. I couldn't even... I think you would be embarrassed if I sat here and listed them out for you. [chuckle] But I just, I loved what she had to say about you and just the fact that you are so detail-oriented and that you were just a real... You just get in there and figure it out.
03:45 AT: Well, thank you. Yeah, that person, Maree McMinn is absolutely amazing. She was a huge mentor for me when I moved into that role, it was my first time in product management. She is a rock star herself and pretty brilliant and so she was amazing because she kinda took me under her wing and led me through that role. But she also took the time to sit down with me and teach me things. She's a pricing expert, she's been doing it forever, she's unbelievable and she actually took the time to sit down and explain with me why she did things the way she did, and taught me some of her methodologies and I absolutely loved that. It was a huge growth opportunity for me, to be able to learn from someone like her and for her to stop and spend time with me to teach me. And I still use a lot of the things that she taught me, even today, which now a decade later from that job, and I still use what she taught me.
04:42 AH: That is awesome. I'm gonna have to make sure that she sees this when it comes out, because she is, she is a rock star completely, totally. And now let me... You mentioned this a little bit about... She took you under her wing and she mentored you a little bit. Was that something that she had to do or was it just something she chose to do on her own?
05:03 AT: She absolutely chose to do and I think saw an opportunity to help me. I mean, honestly, it was my first time in that role, it was kinda the first time I was seeing just some of the things that you see at work, like how to navigate, how to meet with executives, how to do different things, and she had done that. We were also good friends, so it wasn't just that, but she was really pretty amazing and pretty critical for me early in my career.
05:36 AH: Oh, that's awesome, I love it. Now, I would assume that... How long have you been out of college and in the professional world?
05:43 AT: About 15 years.
05:45 AH: A little while. Okay, so I would assume that there have been maybe a few stumbling blocks along the way. Have there been any stumbling blocks or we'll call them learning curves that you've had to face so far and tell us about those.
06:03 AT: Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of those...
[laughter]
06:08 AH: Just one.
06:11 AT: Yeah, always learning, right? I had an opportunity about, now it's been almost about two years ago where the start-up that I had been at for six years, I was at that point, the Vice President of Product Management and we decided it was time to sell the company, and so I had lots of stumbling blocks during that process 'cause I had never been through it. It was incredibly challenging. I had to do things that were outside of my role, outside of my skillset, that were way above what I thought I could do and I had a lot of moments where thank goodness for some of the other amazing people I got to work with that they kind of stopped me and said, "Okay, you need to take a breath, you need to take a walk, you can do this, right, you've got this. And we're gonna get through it together." So a lot of times, I think it was actually me but the people around me that rallied around me to help me get across the finish line. That's how we did it.
07:13 AT: And that I really appreciate those people, whether it's me standing up in front of an entire executive team giving a technical overview, I'm not an engineer by trade, so that's quite a stretch. And for them to think that I know what I'm talking about, enough to buy our company, things like that were really hard. But I had people meeting with me after hours and on the weekends, trying to get me ready, so I'd be okay to do that. It was because of those people that I got across those stumbling blocks but a lot of it was actually kind of me.
07:45 AH: Okay, very good, very good. I love it when a good collaborative team effort comes together to pull everybody across the finish line. I mean, you see that in the best of scenarios. So I love, I love to hear that, that's great. Alright, now, let's switch gears just a tiny bit and we kinda touched on this, but I really wanna dive deep and this is more specific for our younger fresh out of college audience. You mentioned earlier that when you came out of college, you were looking originally to go into sales, but you didn't end up going into sales. So, were there any major reality checks that you faced coming fresh out of college and into the professional world? What you thought was working was gonna be like versus what it was actually like?
08:37 AT: Yes. I think for me coming straight out of school, I had amazing professors that definitely built all of us up that we could do anything, and the types of things looking back, that I was applying for coming out of college were definitely not jobs, I was equipped or able to do from a requirement standpoint, right? Coming out with a marketing degree I believed I could lead an entire marketing department. Well, that actually I have a marketing degree and could work in a marketing department, but probably not lead an entire team of people. And so I think for me over the years, especially coming straight out, I kinda had... It was a struggle of trying to reset that. Okay, this is a process. Just because I have gone to school doesn't mean that I actually have the expertise I need to do some of these jobs and I should be taking every opportunity to learn and that experience does matter and that it is, it is important to have not only the soft skills and degree but also the experience that comes with it.
09:46 AH: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Well, we see that all the time, all the time. So okay, fantastic. Now, is there anything that your current boss or former boss or maybe even a mentor outside of Marie, is there anything that they're doing or have done in the past that really has kept you engaged and kept you motivated and kept you being productive?
10:10 AT: Yeah, I think for me, a lot of the people that I've worked for, that I have really wanted to go above and beyond for, I think a big piece has been that they have embraced and respected me, not only at work, but outside of work. So I had a amazing woman that I worked for named Kay Lucas, and she also had been through the stages that I was in at that point in time when I worked for her. My two children, who are now four and six, right? They were 15 months and a brand new baby. She always was really respectful about flexibility and very supportive and also kind of knew the struggles that I was going through. So that for me, just the grace that she gave me during that time in my life when things are really hard made me want to do whatever she needed, I would go to the ends of the earth for her because of how she treated me and took care of me during those kind of times where I needed a little extra grace.
11:19 AH: Oh [chuckle] yes, any time you have one child under two, much less two kids under two, you need a tremendous amount 'cause you're not sleeping and you're just trying to get through the day.
11:32 AT: Yes. So I think that's one. And then the other was just... I love when the people that I have worked with or that have been mentored me have given me opportunities to do things that are stretches, that maybe it's to come present to the executive team on something, and to actually have me present, and it might be a little rocky right but to give me that opportunity for growth. That's the other thing that Kay not only did but lots of people that I've worked for and it's so helpful as I'm trying to grow, to have those opportunities and I try to do the same thing for my team now.
12:10 AH: That's awesome. That's really, really, really awesome. So now you do have a team, and so you're in the position where you are doing the hiring. Is there anything that really makes an applicant stand out to you that makes you say, "Alright, this person is going to be a rock star."
12:28 AT: Yeah, I think a lot of it is soft skills for sure, how they interact with people, references, and a lot of it is hunger to learn. I look for people who are always wanting to learn. They don't think they're done.
12:48 AH: That's awesome. Now, when you say soft skills, what exactly do you mean?
12:54 AT: Yeah, so, in what we do in my group right there is a lot of managing up. You might be reporting out to executives. There is gonna be a lot of negotiation. There's a lot of partnership across different departments in our company, and so you have to be someone who can kinda navigate all of that, and a lot of that is the soft skills that come with it.
13:19 AH: Absolutely, absolutely, and that's something that I hear a lot of is that there is a real need for soft skills that come out of college and they're prepared with hard skills, but their soft skills tend to be a little less or a little more shaky, I guess.
13:34 AT: Yes.
13:34 AH: Okay, fantastic. Alright, so is there anything that you wish that younger employees knew, as they were going through the hiring process?
13:45 AT: That's a really good question. [chuckle] I think one of the things that is really important is to see everything as an opportunity. It might not be the exact job coming out with your degree that... Your dream job, that it might take you 15, 20 years to have that perfect dream job. But that every step along the way is a learning opportunity and you have to embrace it and see it as that and that even those very first jobs they matter so much to who you're gonna be and what you do and what you learn and to not lose sight on that, even if it's not your dream job right out of the gate, that's okay.
14:26 AH: Right. I'm so glad that you said that and you put it in such a beautiful way that I literally just wanna put that on an Instagram. [laughter] Because it is something... When I speak in colleges and universities still today, it's just like, "Well that's not my dream job" and it's like, "Wow, your dream job is not necessarily gonna come right now." [chuckle] I don't care what your professors or career services says.
14:55 AT: Exactly.
14:56 AH: Yeah. Alright, now is there anything that you think employees or employers, or companies in particular, is there anything that you think that they need to do to make it easier or better for the younger employees as they're coming through, as they're matriculating through the entire system?
15:21 AT: Yes, I think there's definitely, and even if it's not at the employer level things that managers can do. One of the things they can do is spend time with their team, just understanding what is that career goal that that person is trying to work towards, and then being able to write as assignments or projects come up. As a manager, you can do a much better job of helping people get where they're trying to go just by knowing that and sometimes people don't ask "What are you trying to do? What's your end game?
15:54 AH: Right.
15:56 AT: "How do I make sure that I'm helping you on that journey during your time with me"? So I think that's one thing, helping managers see how they can do that. I think for employers overall, one of the things that has been really important for me that I have really cherished and valued is flexibility. So in my current role, I work from home 75% of the time, which is a lot. At other companies I've been from home at least one day a week. Having flexibility with things from a corporate standpoint of PTO, unlimited PTO. I've had, at several companies, that's really, really nice as well. So I think some of those things that just really help you manage what you need to for who you are at work and who you are at home is the same person is really something that goes a long way for especially young working moms like me, that really does matter a lot.
16:54 AH: It's funny. You are out of all the people that I've interviewed so far, I think almost all of them have mentioned that flexibility piece. Almost every single one, especially the working moms, it's a challenge for sure, for sure. Fantastic. Well, Anna, thank you so much. I mean, this has been just bits and pieces that are just something to sink your teeth into, which I love. So is it okay if anybody in our audience wants to reach out to you on LinkedIn?
17:25 AT: Absolutely.
17:27 AH: Fantastic. Well, I will include a link to your profile in the show notes. But Anna, thank you so much and thank you guys for joining us for another episode of The Millennial Rockstar podcast. See you next time, bye.
17:41 AT: Bye. Thanks, Amanda.
17:44 AH: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of The Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on Millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com. The link is below, it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis. Because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 05: Why Early Career Mentoring is Critical to Long Term Success for Millennials appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Communicating with millennials is the key to success on any team. Learning to communicate with millennials and all other generations take special skills. This Millennial Rockstar, Caterina Malerba has built her career on making herself the go-to person for everything from team communications, to project management, problem solving and everything in between.
Caterina Malerba is a Program Manager at Cisco. Cisco Systems, Inc. is an American multinational technology conglomerate headquartered in San Jose, California, in the center of Silicon Valley. Cisco develops, manufactures and sells networking hardware, telecommunications equipment and other high-technology services and products.
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The Transcript - Why Communication is KEY to Building a Strong Millennial Team **AMANDA HAMMETT:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett and this is the Millennial Rockstar podcast. Join us with this rock star, Caterina Malerba, where she shares with us why communication is key, especially when you're dealing with teams. And how leadership can actually use communication to build trust and loyalty among us millennial employees. Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, I am the Millennial Translator because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And on today's episode of the Millennial Rockstar Podcast, we have Caterina Malerba!
Caterina, welcome to the show!
CATERINA MALBERA:Thank you! I'm so excited to be here, thank you!
AMANDA HAMMETT: Fantastic! So, Caterina works for a super-high-tech company that you have all heard of, I am totally sure, but Caterina, tell us a little bit about your role right now.
CATERINA MALBERA: Sure, so as you mentioned I work for a large IT company as a project manager in the virtual sales, I support the Americas, which include Canada, Latin, and the US. I've been with this particular company for just over three years, and... every day is a new challenge, and I'm so excited to be in virtual sales, where it's the digital motion, a lot of millennials and a lot of... Creative space to see, y'know, all great things that are coming out of it.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome, that's awesome. I think that you're in a really, really interesting, cool, but fast- moving space.
CATERINA MALBERA: It really is. Every day is something new, and, y'know, new direction, it's just really cool to be close to that pulse.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Very, very, very cool. So tell us a little bit about your career path. How did you get from where you are, 'cause how long have you been out of college?
CATERINA MALBERA: So University... so I'm located in Canada, where, it's been, oh my gosh. Is it approaching 20 years? Almost 20 years. You're aging me.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Oh, I'm so sorry.
CATERINA MALBERA: That's okay. So I started actually in the banking industry, doing account management, and I realized that I really loved, although I loved the client interaction, I liked the behind-the-scenes, putting projects together and moving things along, and it really, but the sales experience really did help me sort of see things start to finish. From there, I just progressed into a services-based industry for a family-run business, which I got to really experience different areas of a corporation that maybe you don't get to in a larger business. And I got to wear a lot of hats, and I really learned quite a bit there. I was there for seven years, and you really just, you learn the ins and outs of how a business runs, and that brought me to my current company. And I've been a project manager now for over ten years, three years with the current one, and it's just been, I've had three roles in three years. And it's, every... You bring the same skill set to it, but it's just a different way to approach things, and different projects, and every day is a great day. For me anyway.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome, that's awesome. So tell us a little bit about some of the stumbling blocks, because I would imagine that going from banking to this smaller family-run business to this huge juggernaut that you're with now, I mean, there have been probably some ups and downs. So can you give us some examples of some of the stumbling blocks you faced?
CATERINA MALBERA: For sure. I mean, I look at... So, I never say no, that's sort of my thing. I don't say no to any opportunity. Which, sometimes you get ahead of it, or you just don't have the skill set, or the know-how, which I didn't in certain situations. So you really do either fall flat on your face, or you learn from it, and it works. So, those are the stumbling blocks, kind of knowing when to say no, or be like, can I find out more information? But I just always want to learn, and always want to be involved in things. And I just feel like from those experiences is when I learn the most.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Right.
CATERINA MALBERA: When y'know, things didn't go right, and you'll never make that mistake again. I look at it as learning experiences, not really stumbling blocks, but...
AMANDA HAMMETT: Right.
CATERINA MALBERA: I mean, my workload is high! But it's good.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome, yeah, I have uh, I know your boss, as you know. And yes, he did have some, I actually saw him at an event yesterday, when we were in Houston, and he had just praises for you. Just about--
- Oh! Thank you! He's--
AMANDA HAMMETT: Just about, you are just like, go gogo, all the time.
CATERINA MALBERA: Yeah, and he, y'know, just to fan-girl for a minute, I do work for Sylvain Tremblay, and Yong Kim. And they're both, there's fire drills feels like every, every other day, and we've got a few hours to complete it on time, and they really just taught me, sometimes even though you don't know everything, just pull in who you need to do it, and we just get the job done. I've learned so much from them in just under a year of being with this team. He just, he's just hilarious the way that he can just picture it, and you learn so much, and he presents on four slides, but he's got 80 in back-up. He knows that it could go any other way, and those are just experiences that I learned so much from, and it really prepares me for the next fire drill that we usually get every day.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome, I can totally see him doing that.
CATERINA MALBERA: Yep. He, I mean we, that's just how we approach things. And it serves us well, I have to say. And I've learned so much from him. Cuz it really, the conversation never stays on track. It always veers to the left or the right, and it's good to have those back-ups.
AMANDA HAMMETT: No, absolutely, and that's the thing that we mentioned earlier, that you're in this incredibly fast-moving space, and you don't really know what direction it's going from one day to the next, I mean you guys are leaders in that field, by far, but it's still up to you guys to chart the part for everyone else to follow.
CATERINA MALBERA: I mean we hope so right? It's exciting. It's exciting to be like that, and like I said, I don't like to say no to anything, because you just never know where that path will lead you.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Yeah.
CATERINA MALBERA: So it's really, really cool.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Very cool, very cool! Well since we brought up your boss, your bosses, tell us a little bit about what your bosses current, or maybe in the past, do in order to keep you motivated, to keep you productive, because you do have an incredibly heavy workload. I mean, I know just from knowing what your team does and accomplishes, and who your leadership is, I know that that workload is just through the roof. So tell us a little bit about what they do to keep you productive, to keep you engaged, and to keep you waking up going, yay!
CATERINA MALBERA: For sure. So I've been pretty lucky working for this company and working throughout my career, I've had great managers and leaders that, that I have worked for, I did start at the current company working for Jason Bedinger, and I only worked with him for a few months but he, in those few months he kept me engaged, gave me creative, a little bit of creative space to make a work stream of my own and sort of take off with that. So I really learned a lot. Working with Sylvain and Yong, they do that and more. They really just... They let you just go out and do what you need to do to come back, and then we work together and they have different perspectives on it, and it's just something, that sense of purpose?
AMANDA HAMMETT: Right.
CATERINA MALBERA: That keeps me engaged, and knowing that what I'm doing counts to move the needle, or tell the story, or whatever it may be. And that's what I love about them, it's not a check a box, it's not a "okay, "give me this data, but I'm just gonna file it," it's really keeping me engaged and, I mean, if that's not there for me, it's not a self-motivator. If my work is not, doesn't have a purpose, it just isn't self-motivating. So that's what they do to sort of wake me up in the morning and keep me up at night!
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome.
CATERINA MALBERA: Whichever way you'll go, yeah.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That is so true, I can totally see that. I've mentioned this to you before, but I'm gonna tell you this, and actually, your boss, Sylvain and I were on a panel together a couple days ago in Houston and I actually said this out loud, and I think he was a little embarrassed, but I'm gonna say it again because it embarrassed him. But when I first met him months and months and months ago, I really got the impression in having conversations with him that he viewed his success through the successes of his team and their individual successes and them being proud of those successes. Now, I didn't get the impression that it was all about his ego, it was more about the team and how it made the team members individually feel, because at the end of the day, we all know that's gonna turn around and make the team even more productive.
CATERINA MALBERA: Absolutely.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Yeah. So it's just--
CATERINA MALBERA: I mean, this team, I've seen opportunities where they've passed up because they're just not ready to leave under his leadership and see where he's gonna take the work direction.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Wow.
CATERINA MALBERA: So, it really is a testament to him, whether he knows it or not, he is really a great leader, and he does invest in his people. And we want, in turn, to do right for him. Everything we're doing is to make him look good.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Absolutely.
CATERINA MALBERA: And working for Yong as well, who is his Chief of Staff, you really see that camaraderie and that collaboration, and it's really just great to see when everyone's on the same team. And working toward the same goal. So yeah, definitely fans of both of them.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome. Well, I got to hear a lot about Yong on this trip as well, so I'd love to meet him in person too.
CATERINA MALBERA: Yeah! Oh great, yeah, we're setting it up.
AMANDA HAMMETT: So tell me a little bit about, is there anything as far as company perks, or anything that your current company or one in the past has done, that makes you think, man, that makes me feel special, that really makes me feel good, is there anything you can think of?
CATERINA MALBERA: Um, for sure! I mean, the company does have global give-back days. They let us volunteer for causes that are near and dear to our hearts and they pay for you to go to that. Like, they give you the time off, and they pay for you to go to that, or they match it, which is, for a large corporation that is global, they have no relation to where I personally am at London, Ontario, but it's just a great thing to see that it sort of comes home, and that's a great perk for me. Personally, I get to work from home, just because of my location to the hub. And that to me is really important, at this stage in my career, just that I'm able to be home and get to pick up my kids, but also I'm working. Just to have that ability to do that and still do my job, for me is, loyalty right there.
AMANDA HAMMETT: So you mentioned a few big buzzwords in the millennial world. You mentioned loyalty, which, y'know, millennials are often accused of not having. But you also mentioned, you didn't use the word, but you mentioned the ability for flexibility and some work-life balance.
CATERINA MALBERA: Absolutely.
AMANDA HAMMETT: I mean that is, just for me, that is amazing that you have that opportunity, but it is so, so important especially as we change as a society to, everybody's pretty much a dual-working family these days, and you have kids, they have needs and wants!
CATERINA MALBERA: Yep, and it proves that you don't have to be seen in an office working the traditional nine to five to be able to do your job. And I think that has a lot to do with the trust that my team and my managers and leaders have in me, and they know that I'm not sitting here in front of a TV doing that, that's what-- or going to the gym, that is the traditional mindset but you really do, it's almost like, you just make the most of the time that you can sit in front of the laptop and you get things done. And then you also have that family balance, so.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome.
CATERINA MALBERA: Balance, I am still working on, admittedly, I mean I would love to just sit here and do all the work, we're getting there.
AMANDA HAMMETT: It's always a work in progress.
CATERINA MALBERA: Yep. Yep. There are times I'm still up at the late hours. But it's also a passion project for me. I love, it really is, the loyalty comes from the engagement and from my leaders and from my team, and it doesn't feel like work for me. So.
AMANDA HAMMETT: So you actually mentioned a little something I'd like to touch on, and it's a little skew off of something, but you mentioned that they have trust in you. They trust that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. And obviously, they can see what you're producing, and things like that. But I feel like trust in a team is super important. And that's something I talk a lot about, and spend a lot of time with people helping them develop, but you guys have it. What do you think was that, what do you think it is, that has really helped that along for your entire team?
CATERINA MALBERA: Communication. Absolutely. If there's a lack of communication, or you're not collaborating well, then things tend to be disjointed, and it just doesn't work, and I feel that when... Even when you're on different views, or whatever it may be, you leave them at the door, and you just kind of collaborate and come to a mutual project conclusion, or whatever it may be. And that, I think, in turn, builds trust. If you didn't have that, I have worked on project teams in the past where the communication level was low, and things were just disjointed, and it just didn't work. Everyone is busy, but we really do need to communicate, and also you do need that time together as a team. We're pretty lucky, we get to meet at least once quarterly, and really bond and have closed-doors planning sessions, and it really, just having that trust level amongst each other, we really do work together, even though teams are so sporadic, some in Latin America, some up here in Canada, and some throughout the US. So just being able to come together regularly, and work together, but then in the interim, having that open channel.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Awesome.
CATERINA MALBERA: Regardless of how that may be.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Right, awesome. So since you guys are all spread out, do you guys do like a lot of video chatting, or how do you guys do that, handle that?
CATERINA MALBERA: Absolutely, yep. Video chatting or calling, there is Jabber, I'm a caller. I love to pick up the phone.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Very un-millennial of you…..
CATERINA MALBERA: I know, I know! Sometimes to type, I'm like, ugh! Just one more word, but I do love that facial interaction, as soon as I call someone it is on video, which is nice. Just to be able to see that. And sometimes you need that, to go beyond written word, is to have that emotional connection that you can, you can communicate on things.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Absolutely! We are hard-wired as human beings to create that human connection, and sometimes you just don't get it in email, or any kind of instant messaging.
CATERINA MALBERA: No. Absolutely. Especially, y'know, it's a pet peeve of mine when you're working through a session or whatever and someone answers, "K." Like oh my gosh, what does that mean? So yeah, so communication is absolutely key beyond the K.
AMANDA HAMMETT: I'm gonna write that down.
CATERINA MALBERA: It is so true! It is beyond, it just makes me laugh every time.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Okay. Is there anything-- that is hilarious. Is there anything that you wish that companies knew about hiring younger employees?
CATERINA MALBERA: For sure. Definitely give them the benefit of the doubt. Let individuals prove what they're worth beyond, you know, as stereotypes. Give them the creative space to own a work stream. Don't make it so prescriptive, definitely give general guidelines of what's expected but let them own it. I feel that a lot of times people have different ways of approaching things, but when you're pigeonholed into just doing it one way, it really stifles you, and that's when you tend to lose top talent, at least that's what my experience has been. So definitely just give them a little bit of rope. Let them make things their own. And you'd be surprised, I mean, I've been able to work on different projects with-- the same projects, but different teams, and it's the same milestones. And the way some people approach it is unbelievable. It's just like, oh my gosh, that's really great. We get to the same outcome, just different ways, and it's really, really great to see.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's awesome. I so love that, I so love that. Perfect, well, this has been a fantastic discussion, thank you Caterina, thank you so much.
CATERINA MALBERA: Thank you!
AMANDA HAMMETT: If possible for our audience, if they wanted to reach out to you on LinkedIn, would that be possible?
CATERINA MALBERA: Absolutely.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Okay, perfect! Well, I will include the link to Caterina's LinkedIn profile in the show notes, but thank you so much for being on the show, Caterina, and thank you to our audience! And we will see you in the very next episode. Bye!
CATERINA MALBERA: Thanks, everyone, thanks Amanda.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials, get some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com, the link is below, it's amandahammett.com, there you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day-to-day basis! Because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 04: Why Communication is KEY to Building a Strong Millennial Team appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Career Growth as a millennial can be frustrating and tough. Not to mention, millennials have a reputation for avoiding face-to-face conversations. Millennial Rockstar, Rachel Gerrald shares with us how she used face-to-face conversations to get more opportunities and career growth.
Rachel Gerrald is the Internal Auditor at Valvoline. Valvoline Inc. (NYSE: VVV) is a leading worldwide marketer and supplier of premium branded lubricants and automotive services, with sales in more than 140 countries. Established in 1866, the company’s heritage spans more than 150 years, during which it has developed powerful brand recognition across multiple product and service channels. Valvoline ranks as the No. 3 passenger car motor oil brand in the DIY market by volume.
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The Transcript - Moving Your Career Forward Through Face to Face Conversations **AMANDA HAMMETT:**Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, and this is the Millennial Rockstar Podcast. Hey, welcome to this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. Today we have Rachel Gerrald who is an internal auditor at Valvoline, and although she's only three years into her career, she actually walks us through the importance of face-to-face conversations and how that can really move your career forward. So watch up and see what she has to say. Hey there, my name is Amanda Hammett, I am known as the Millennial Translator, because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top Millennial talent and speaking of top Millennial talent, today I am talking to Rachel, who is coming to us from Valvoline headquarters. Hey Rachel, thanks for coming on Millennial Rockstars.
RACHEL GERRALD:Thank you for having me.
AMANDA HAMMETT:Awesome, awesome. So Rachel, tell me a little bit about you and your career.
RACHEL GERRALD:So I'm a Buckeye, graduated from Ohio State, and started here in April 2015, so I've been in audit now for going on three years. Got a finance degree. Yeah, that about sums me up as far as my background
AMANDA HAMMETT:Awesome, awesome. Now Rachel, did you always know you wanted to go into finance, was that always the plan?
RACHEL GERRALD:I knew that I wanted to go into business just because I've always liked math and been good at that. I watched my dad go through business and he's been successful and kind of see that lifestyle so I knew it was either accounting or finance and when I got into the classes, I thought, finance is a lot more fun because you can put a lot more creativity and assumptions around that and it's about the future, not the past, right. So I really enjoyed that aspect of it.
AMANDA HAMMETT:That's awesome, I love it. I love that. So you know, I know that you are fairly new to the working world, I mean what, three years?
RACHEL GERRALD:Yep.
AMANDA HAMMETT: So is there, have there been any moments thus far or let's start with this…
What has been the biggest difference between what you thought about the workforce versus the reality that you have found now that you're in the workforce?
RACHEL GERRALD:I don't know that I had any preconceived notions as far as what it would be like. I would say for me in college I was a very serious student and I basically treated it like a nine to five job and told myself I'm going to be in the library studying if I'm not in class
AMANDA HAMMETT: Wow
RACHEL GERRALD:So I kind of transitioned very well through that. Yeah, I studied a lot, I graduated top five of my class.
AMANDA HAMMETT:And Ohio State's not small.
RACHEL GERRALD:No, it's not, it's not. So I kind of took that approach which translated well to the working world and I have to say I like the working world a lot better than school just because you get to see those real-life impacts that your work makes.
AMANDA HAMMETT:Wow, I love that. So tell me about what the process was like for you when you were leaving Ohio State and you were looking for that first job coming right out of college. Were there specific things that you were looking for, were there things that you were like I definitely know that this is not for me? Walk me through that.
RACHEL GERRALD: Well audit is like one of the best places to start and I would definitely recommend it to anybody who's coming straight out of college because you get just a whole lot of experience to a lot of areas of the business, so coming in with no experience other than the classroom, I was able to get a really broad view of this company, through stocks testing is where I started but I've also worked on projects ranging from supply chain and procurement all the way through finance and accounting. So audit was something that I was definitely interested in just because it gives you a very well rounded view.
AMANDA HAMMETT:That's really cool, that's so cool. Now what about, have there been any stumbling blocks thus far in your career, just things that you've had to deal with?
RACHEL GERRALD: I would say just, I think it's normal for everybody, you have to take charge of your own career, right, nobody's going to open those doors for you necessarily so you,
AMANDA HAMMETT:They don't do that?
RACHEL GERRALD:No! But I mean that's the same as it was growing up and in school but I think not everybody realizes that if you're interested in something or you want to learn more about something, you have to take that initiative and reach out and so I've done that. I've also come across areas where I need more challenge and I don't feel necessarily like I'm being challenged as much as I should be and I could grow more so that's something where you have to have that conversation and say I'm eager and willing to take on more responsibility and if you don't raise your hand, you'll never get that chance.
AMANDA HAMMETT:So Rachel, walk me through that conversation. So who do you have it with? Kind of set the scene for me, tell me about that, I love it.
RACHEL GERRALD:Well it's basically you asking for more opportunity with your boss and kind of weaving that into conversations because you don't want to come out and say hey, I want X, Y, Z and say I have some availability or I'm really interested in this side of the business, I'd like to work on a project here, I'd like to work on a new area because I've done this and I know it really well and I'm ready for something new. So basically, I just brought it up and we have trimester reviews here, brought it up then and said, you know, I really like my work here but I'm very interested in this one particular area and I feel like now's the time, I'm ready for some more challenge and responsibility and I'd love it if you could help me with that and help me grow my career.
AMANDA HAMMETT:So Rachel, I want you to emphasize this point. You said it but you just glossed over it, I want you to spell this out. Are these conversations in person?
RACHEL GERRALD:Oh, absolutely, 100% yeah. That's the way you have to do it and I'm probably not like most Millennials as far as that's concerned because I am somebody who doesn't really like to hide behind the email and the IM, I like to go talk to people.
But I think that's also part of audit because we're the auditors so we really have to work on that relationship and the only way you can really do that is by going and talking to people.
AMANDA HAMMETT:Okay, yeah, I think that's really great. One of the things that I see a lot is that Millennials who are ready and want to move forward, they work it into an email or
RACHEL GERRALD:No, no, no
AMANDA HAMMETT:Or some sort of electronic conversation and I'm like
RACHEL GERRALD: Right
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's, this is where eye to eye contact is really important. You need to show that you are ready for that responsibility and that comes through building that sense of trust.
RACHEL GERRALD:Right, I 100% agree with that, yeah.
AMANDA HAMMETT:Okay, I love it. I love it and I love that you're taking charge and really not waiting for someone else because I speak to a lot of people and they're like well, I want my work to speak for itself and I said I get that. It's good that you want to do good work but sometimes you have to point it out, hey, boss, you got 12 other people you're managing, I just want to make sure that you know that I'm ready to move on
RACHEL GERRALD:Right
AMANDA HAMMETT:Do you think I'm ready, what am I missing.
RACHEL GERRALD:And I think they appreciate that honesty too and transparency, like I'm a super transparent person so if I feel like hey, I would love to take on this added responsibility and I'd love your support in that, I have no problem saying that and I think they appreciate that too.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Perfect, perfect. Oh, gosh, you're awesome. I just want you to know
RACHEL GERRALD:Thank you
AMANDA HAMMETT: I think you're awesome So, let's talk a little bit about your boss, again. So is there anything that your boss or maybe I know that you work in a group or any of your coworkers or maybe you have a mentor or an advocate within Valvoline, is there anything that they're doing specifically that really keeps you engaged and motivated and wanting to get out of bed in the morning and audit some different departments?
RACHEL GERRALD:I think communication is a big part and having those checkpoint meetings with them and having that two-way communication as far as what's going on. Training is also something that Valvoline's really supportive of which I think is awesome. So I recently got my CIA, which sounds really cool but it's Certified Internal Auditor. So I took three tests to become certified for that. And Valvoline was supporting me 100%.
AMANDA HAMMETT:Cool.
RACHEL GERRALD:And then they also have continued training through not only for audit but also, they bring in people who talk to us about MBA programs and if we'd be interested in that, so there are definitely opportunities for continuing education here which I really like that.
AMANDA HAMMETT:That's awesome. Now I know that Valvoline has some different employee resource groups and things like that, is there anything that Valvoline is doing, whether it's perks or benefits, specifically you've mentioned a little bit about some further development, charity work opportunities, is there anything that they're doing specifically, Valvoline itself, like hey, I am gaining a sense of loyalty to this company because I feel a connection based on where they are and where I am going.
RACHEL GERRALD: Yeah, well Valvoline has a really strong culture and I think the people here really are what make it special. And Valvoline's always been a supporter in giving back. We have an employee giving campaign that I've been involved in, we do that every year. This year for the new headquarter building we actually have like a community celebration where we had a yard sale for all the things that we had from our old office building, and then we opened up our brand-new building to the public so I was one of the tour guides who was able to learn some cool facts about our building and give tours which is really cool.
AMANDA HAMMETT:That is cool.
RACHEL GERRALD:We've also done things like Habitat for Humanity as a group which is a great team-building opportunity so that's definitely a plus of working with Valvoline.
AMANDA HAMMETT:Absolutely, yeah. You guys have done a really nice job and it just, it's just a really friendly environment. I noticed there's not, everybody was just walking around with smiles on their faces, I was watching people just kind of walk by that desk in the front and I was waiting on someone towards the end of the afternoon and you know usually towards the end of the afternoon, you've hit that two o'clock slump feeling, but nobody looked just down and out, they were really kind of walking around, smiling, laughing about different stuff and I loved that, I thought it was cool.
RACHEL GERRALD:It's a really strong culture and I think too now that we've spun off from Ashland, that everybody has that energized feeling that good things are happening for Valvoline, the future's bright so we're all excited to be part of it.
AMANDA HAMMETT:That's commercial worthy, Rachel.
RACHEL GERRALD: Well it's true, I think you can see that, you saw it when you were here and that's the attitude.
AMANDA HAMMETT:I definitely felt it, it was, yeah, it was very much, palpable, so very good. I love it. Alright, so tell our audience here is there anything that in your mind or maybe your boss has told you since that really made you stand out in the applicant pool or in the interview pool when you were going through the process to join Valvoline?
RACHEL GERRALD: Right. I think what really stood out the most coming straight out of college is just my strong academic record. I graduated with a 3.9, which is not easy. And just hard work ethic and willingness and eagerness to learn and contribute everything I can to be part of the team. So I think that goes a long way.
AMANDA HAMMETT: I think that you might be right on that teamwork and collaboration
RACHEL GERRALD:Right
AMANDA HAMMETT:That's great. Now is there anything that you wish, I don't know this for a fact, but I assume that you did interview with other companies before you chose Valvoline. So I would imagine that you were probably courted by other companies with some attractive offers and perks, but is there anything that you wish that companies knew about hiring younger employees?
RACHEL GERRALD:I wish that we could kind of challenge the stereotypes of Millennials as far as, there's a negative connotation, I don't really understand why, because I think we're all just individual people. I know when you were here you mentioned something about you heard that Millennials don't make eye contact. Well, that's never really been a problem for me. So I think those stereotypes you really have to challenge them by being different from that stereotype. I wish that in the hiring process it could go a little faster because sometimes it can take a whole lot of time. I know that's like ideal world,
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's not a generational thing.
RACHEL GERRALD:No, that's just overarching, I know.But, I'm losing my train of thought here, but I did have another point that I wanted to,
AMANDA HAMMETT: Sorry, I interrupted.
RACHEL GERRALD:No, that's okay. Your question was on hiring, was there anything different. Probably just also recognizing that even though you don't have a lot of experience, somebody has to take a chance on you and allow you to grow and have that experience. So Will, who hired me, took a chance on me and I really appreciate that because you do come in with not a whole lot of experience but I do they should also recognize that you still have perspective and you still have things that you can add from the classroom and from your personal experience. So I think because a lot of the time the younger people get, well you don't have any experience, but nobody will give you experience. So that's kind of challenging. Yeah.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Okay, excellent, I think those are all really great points. And you kind of touched on this a little bit with the shorter hiring process. But is there anything that you wish that companies did to make the hiring process easier or better, besides shortening it?
RACHEL GERRALD:Besides the time? I think Valvoline could do a good job of recruiting further out. They do a good job recruiting here in Kentucky and UK, but I didn't see anything when I was at Ohio State, so I think that getting in front of those college students in career fairs and things like that is really important because that kind of sets the tone and gets you in their mind. So and that's what, all my interviews pretty much came out from contacting somebody at a career fair who I talked to so I think that's a really good way to meet good people.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Fantastic, I think that's great. Alright, well fantastic. Rachel, that is really all I have for you and that was awesome. You are actually a rockstar.
RACHEL GERRALD: Thank you, that's sweet of you to say.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Phenomenal and I really appreciate you being here and I'm just so impressed. I know that you are all of 25 years old but I am super impressed.
RACHEL GERRALD: Well thank you, thank you for having me. I appreciate it and I think what you're doing here is really cool.
AMANDA HAMMETT:Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar Podcast. If you are looking for even more information on Millennials and some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com, the link is below, it's amandahammett.com. There you can download a free Millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those Millennials engaged on a day to day basis. Because we all know that Millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 03: Moving Your Career Forward Through Face to Face Conversations appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Educating millennials doesn't end once they leave college and head into the workforce. Their quest for knowledge is unrivaled. But how do employers harness the quest for knowledge and educating millennials to their benefit? Millennial Rockstar, Cindy Hancock, shares with us how she went from having a masters in Chemistry to leading an operations team for a fast growing startup.
Cindy Hancock is the Revenue Systems Manager at SalesLoft. SalesLoft is a sales engagement platform. The company was founded in September 2011. Though its original product offering focused on sales development, the company has since expanded its platform to offer functionality for the entire sales organization.
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The Transcript - Millennials: the Quest for Learning & Making an Impact **AMANDA HAMMETT:** Hey, this is Amanda Hammett, and this is the Millennial Rockstar podcast. Alright, good morning, this is Amanda Hammett, I am known as the millennial translator because I help companies attract, retain, and engage top millennial talent. And today we are on millennial rockstars, and we are with the very talented rockstar Cynthia Hancock, who is with SalesLoft. Cynthia, welcome to the show.
CINDY HANCOCK: Hi, thank you, good morning. Thank you for having me.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Oh, good morning, good morning. As you know, we are only having rockstars on that have been nominated by someone who can vouch for their rockstar status. So, I'm curious, Cynthia, I really love and value the person that nominated you. What makes you a rockstar?
CINDY HANCOCK: a hard question. It's, I'm actually not a person that likes to brag, so. But I think one of the things for me is I have this hunger for knowledge. And it's like, what can I do to grow, and constantly permeates what's that next step, how can I level up? And then actually doing it. So, when I stared at SalesLoft, I just came in as a support hire, and my mindset at the time was like, let me just get in the door of this great company, and then I can grow from there. The opportunities and potential is endless, so let me just take it and run with it and let me just prove myself. So, I was the first hire in the support team.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Awesome.
CINDY HANCOCK: Helped scale that out, and then I ended up managing that team. Within like the first year that I was there.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Really?
CINDY HANCOCK: Yeah, yeah. And then I took a little time off because I got pregnant and I had a baby, and that was really exciting, big accomplishment there.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Yeah!
CINDY HANCOCK: And I came back and I was the first, I wouldn't say hire because I wasn't like re-hired, but I moved into the first operations role at SalesLoft. And then we helped started scaling that team out, and now I am managing that team now as well.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Wow.
CINDY HANCOCK: So, very exciting.
AMANDA HAMMETT: How long have you been at SalesLoft?
CINDY HANCOCK: It will be three years in the beginning of February.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Coming up. Alright, so you've been there three years, you've had multiple roles, which is amazing. So, what is your current role today?
CINDY HANCOCK: Right now, I'm heading up the revenue operations and systems team.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Okay, fantastic. And remind me again, where did you start?
CINDY HANCOCK: In support, technical support.
AMANDA HAMMETT: And you started out, I think it's really interesting and I want this for younger listeners to note, you started out in a support role, and you just wanted to get your foot in the door, that's what you said.
CINDY HANCOCK: Yep, yep.
AMANDA HAMMETT: I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. Since we're talking about that, is there anything that was really different for you as far as reality versus expectation when you were coming into the work force?
CINDY HANCOCK: You know for me, I was having, it was a big change for me. So, I have, I'm trained traditionally as a chemist. I have my masters in Chemistry, and so for me, my expectations were not maybe as high as maybe typical millennials when they are maybe looking for a new job once they come out of college. Mainly just because I knew I didn't have any background in SAAS, and this was a new field for me, so I was just trying to figure out what I could learn and then go from there. But I did, and I still do have a lot of ambition, and so that's, I think, where it's taken me, to where I am now.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's amazing. I love that you can really tell that your quest for always learning, how you can tell that that has really played a major role, so good for you, that's fantastic. Now, so, let's talk a little bit about that because you did say that you have a masters in Chemistry. Did you just at some point figure out that was just not going to work for you, or tell me a little bit about that, what made you make that transition away from Chemistry? becauseobviously, there was a love there if you went all the way through getting a masters in Chemistry.
CINDY HANCOCK: Right.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Tell me about what happened.
CINDY HANCOCK: Sure, so actually, it's you know, growing up I always figured I'd be a doctor, or some kind of medical professional. And actually, a lot of that is just family upbringing, and you know.
There's the expectation there for that. And then one day it just was like a light bulb and I realized I needed to do what was there for what I wanted to do, not what was expected of me.
And what would make me happier, and I realized the lifestyle of a chemist was not something I was enjoying. It's really long hours, on your feet, doing lots of testing, very repetitive, you could be doing research your whole life working on a pharmaceutical or something like that, and you could potentially not see it to fruition. Just because how long it takes, you know, it could take 15, 20 years for something to go to market, just because of rigorous testing and things like that. So for me, it's like, I still wanted to make that huge impact, and still be innovative, because what I was working on at that time was very innovative with cancer tags. But what can I do that's more fast paced? And that's where technology came in.
With software, and I was like, where can I go, a startup, where I know I can learn a ton, have huge opportunities, as well as make a huge impact and actually have a voice.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's fantastic. And I think that that really encapsulates a lot of millennial ideals, is being somewhere where you can make an impact and have a voice. I mean, that is what you hear a lot.
Let's talk about this, I mean you mentioned it, but there might be some other things that you want to add in. Have there been any stumbling blocks or learning curves that you found in your career? And what did you do to get through them?
CINDY HANCOCK: Sure. One of the first things, especially right when I started at SalesLoft just because I was trying so hard to prove myself that I was almost too heads down. And not making or building those relationships that I needed to within the company. And so my boss at that time came to me and was like, Cindy, you're doing amazing work. Like your throughput is through the roof, but definitely come up for air, you know? I don't want you to burn out. If you do want to build those relationships I will help you, because I know you do. And so I started to do that. I started asking people to go out for lunch, and for coffee, learning about what they do, so I can learn more about the business. And then just, once I looked up more, there were more opportunities, just because I had those relationships, and a lot of my success here at SalesLoft definitely has to do with saying yes more and then building a strong network of advocates that I have now with the senior lead team. Which has been amazing.
AMANDA HAMMETT: So do you see as a SalesLoft, I know that you guys are doing a lot of hiring these days.
CINDY HANCOCK: Yes.
AMANDA HAMMETT: You guys are growing, which is fantastic.
CINDY HANCOCK: Like crazy, yeah.
AMANDA HAMMETT: But do you see that other millennials also have this issue with building relationships at all?
CINDY HANCOCK: A little bit. A little bit, I think they need to just be told a little bit more, or not even told, they just need more feedback. They really enjoy that feedback, and that's, they, I don't know. That's a really good question.
I mean, what I see a lot is that a lot of times they're very comfortable making those relationships with people closer to their age, but when it comes to senior management, they want their voice heard but they just don't have those more social skills, or softer skills, so, you know, how to start an actual conversation that doesn't require email, like a face to face. And I think sometimes they struggle with that is kind of what I see.
Right, that is a really good point. So, that is something that I do see, actually. I hired a new person recently, and that was one of their things is building relationships has been difficult with senior people in the company. And it's not only just building the relationships but it's how they talk, almost. Like not being, like learning how to be tactful, a little bit, you know. Because millennials are like, just so easily just say what's on their mind, and not have that filter. And not think about like how those professional relationships can be a little bit different, especially knowing who their audience is.
You know, maybe it's an older audience, more senior audience with a lot of experience, and is used to being talked to a certain way, or something like that. So that is something I have seen.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Yeah, yeah. I love that you said knowing your audience. That is huge. Yeah, I work with a lot of, coaching and mentoring a lot of millennials, and it is a lot of, hey, let's talk about eye contact, let's talk about how important it is, don't just send everything in text messaging, and addressing your audience, knowing who they are, and that's the way you go about it. So that's perfect point. Perfect, perfect point. So, I know that SalesLoft is fantastic. Is there anything, benefits, or perks, or anything at SalesLoft in particular that they're doing that you think is awesome about creating a sense of loyalty, a sense of community, how do they foster that?With their employees?
CINDY HANCOCK: Right. Well first thing for me specifically, SalesLoft is a performance based culture, and not based on seniority or how long you've been there, anything like that. So I've only been here for three years, and most people who have been here have been here for shorter, but you know. If they do well, SalesLoft has this great mindset of promoting from within, or even just letting you move to different departments.
AMANDA HAMMETT: So more like a lateral move?
CINDY HANCOCK: Exactly, exactly.
Which is really great, so if you come in, like support, like I did, and want to go to operations, or if you come in, you're like implementations and training, and want to go into products, we have people who've done that and it's very common here. You know, you really get to learn, feel what you really like, and then explore it, so it's just really cool. Very flexible when it comes to work and home life. Which I think is really important, especially if you have a family.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Which you do, yeah.
CINDY HANCOCK: Yes, exactly. My boss that I have now has this huge thing for this culture of learning. So it's right up my alley. So professional development, SalesLoft has a whole, we have a budget specifically for everyone for a professional development, so that's amazing. And we have just really exceptional people here, so you want to work with them. Especially with our interview process, like you get to meet so many of them. And that's really a testament to our core values. Because if they align with yours, you just want to be here with these people and learn from them, and learn from each other, it's really amazing.
AMANDA HAMMETT: That's really cool. Do you mind if I ask a little bit more about the professional development? Do you guys get to pick out, you know you said there's a budget for everyone in particular. Do you guys get to pick out what it is that you want to develop, or is there like a talent and development team that's like, okay, Cindy, this is kind of where we're pathing you. These are the skills we need you to learn, or are you free to make those choices on your own?
CINDY HANCOCK: You're actually pretty free to just make your choices on your own. So they could range from books you want to buy that you want to read, to getting certifications, to going to a conference.
And paying for travel and room and board and everything. And as long as you can provide some kind of relevancy of how it can improve your day to day with the work that you do, it's usually not an issue. So it's just great, yeah.
AMANDA HAMMETT: I love that, I love that they're investing in their people, that is the most important, important thing. So let's talk specifically about your boss. Either your current boss, an old boss, a mentor, you mentioned advocates before. Is there anything, anyone, at any point in the past has done that really has kept you engaged, at work? And wanting to produce good work?
CINDY HANCOCK: Right, right. So definitely with Erin, she's just amazing at being transparent. Any questions that I have about anything, she's like yeah, this is what it is. And you know, that way I can make my decisions a lot easier because I know what she's thinking, I know what everyone else is thinking. And a lot of the senior leadership is like that, they're not hiding things or anything like that so there's a lot of really clear transparency in regard to vision, or just things you just want clarity on. So that's really great. And just like expectations in general. And so that's really good. The other thing is because we are so open, and we have a really good trusting environment, which is of course really important, is feedback. I'm always looking for feedback and I know a lot of millennials do, and they give it very freely here. And it's, whenever you're asking for advice, sometimes it could be for yourself, it could be looked at as maybe like weakness, or you feel maybe self-conscious about it, because you have to ask, but it's really a sign of strength here. And people really, and you know, I mean, to be honest, people love it when you ask them for feedback and for advice, because it's almost like an ego stroke, right?
AMANDA HAMMETT: Well yeah, and it's a sign that they trust you and they value your opinion, and so absolutely.
CINDY HANCOCK: So, you know, I definitely would tell millennials do it more, if you want to grow, that's the best way.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Yeah. Someone said something to me a long time ago that feedback is a gift. And whether it's good feedback or bad feedback, it's still a gift, and it gives you something. Whether it's something to better yourself or maybe not.
CINDY HANCOCK: Exactly, exactly.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Maybe to distance yourself from, I don't know. But I love that, I love, I know Erin is incredibly transparent, you can just see that about her the moment you meet her. But I think it's really valuable that the entire team is very transparent, and they put it out there because I think that that makes you as you're looking to continue on your career trajectory, it makes your decisions a lot easier because there's nothing clouding. You know exactly what you have to face. So, I love that, I love that. So is there anything that, I get a lot, I talk to companies from all industries, all sizes, and one thing that really bothers me that I hear is that sometimes companies say, you know what, we don't hire millennials.
And I'm like, first I'm a little stunned. Well the first few times I heard that. But then I'm like, you know, should we go ahead and schedule when you're going to close your business?
You're not going to have a choice! You know, 2025 they're expecting millennials to be 75% of the work force, so what are you going to do then?
CINDY HANCOCK: Exactly.
AMANDA HAMMETT: So is there anything that you wish companies outside of SalesLoft or even within SalesLoft, is there anything that you wish that they knew about hiring younger employees?
CINDY HANCOCK: Yeah, that's an amazing question. And I was thinking about this and I think it really came down to kind of this idea of entitlement versus ambition.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Ooh, do tell.
CINDY HANCOCK: Yeah. So millennials, they are taught to shoot for the stars and land in the clouds. Sometimes when I come to an interview and they do that, and they're like, yeah, I'm ready for that VP position. And you're like, hold up for a second. This doesn't quite work that way. But that's I think where you can, actually as for the company or a hiring manager, that's where you can see I think the opportunity in them.
CINDY HANCOCK: Is they have this, yes, you need to, meter their expectations, even though they are very high. But it's focusing on setting those expectations, setting clear goals and getting to them, getting them to that next level, and you know you can do that because they have the ambition to do it. You know? As a hiring manger now, I would choose ambition over complacency anytime, right? No one wants just the status quo.
AMANDA HAMMETT: No, especially not now, especially not as the economy is changing and shifting. And in a place like SalesLoft.
CINDY HANCOCK: Right, exactly.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Complacency will kill you. All the time. Okay, so is there anything in the hiring process that companies have that you wish was easier, or better, or just different?
CINDY HANCOCK: Yeah, this is, I'm not sure if this is so much in the millennial view.
This is more I think in general, especially in technology spaces, how can we take bias out of the interview process? You know, there's not enough women in senior leadership. And SalesLoft is trying very hard with, we sponsor a lot of senior leadership events, and we have a women's leadership training that I'm actually going through right now.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Awesome.
CINDY HANCOCK: Sponsored by SalesLoft. And so just you know, what can we do to take out that bias on the front end? So that we're not, and it doesn't necessarily have to even just deal with women, but you know, races or anything.
Or you have just everyone has their own bias just based on their upbringings and how they think, just different things like how people dress, or what their makeup looks like, and things like that. So how can we get rid of that as much as possible? That is my big thing personally. Just more in general is SalesLoft does a really good job in the interview process of doing peer interviews and culture interviews and just making sure they are not only the right fit for the company, but also, they are a right fit for your team. Because each team has a little bit of their--
Kind of like subculture.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Yes, absolutely! Absolutely!
CINDY HANCOCK: Right, so this has been really great, and not only for us as a company to hire the right people, but also for that person to really get to know the people at the company to make sure it's a right fit for them as well.
AMANDA HAMMETT: A thousand percent. I love the way that you phrased that and you put that because each team does have its own subculture in particular. I mean, I loved all of it but that is just something that a lot of companies I think miss the mark on. They think, oh, you've got these skills on your resume, so check check check, you're good.
No no no no no, you could have great skills, but if you don't fit with your team, that whole team can tank in a very short amount of time, and you see it happen all the time, and they're like, what happened?
Well. So, that's awesome. Cindy, thank you so much. I really really appreciate all of your wonderful insights and sharing with us what makes you a rockstar, I know that you're too humble to say that, so I will say it for you.
CINDY HANCOCK: Well thank you so much for having me, I really enjoyed this.
AMANDA HAMMETT: You're so welcome. Is there any way that people could reach out to you through LinkedIn, are you comfortable with that?
CINDY HANCOCK: Absolutely. Yeah, reach out to me in LinkedIn, message me, connect with me.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthiabrownhancock/
I would love to connect, yeah.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Alright, perfect. Well I will include your LinkedIn link in show notes and with this interview, but otherwise, Cindy, again, thank you so much. This has been Cynthia Hancock with SalesLoft. Thank you so much.
CINDY HANCOCK: Thank you, have a great day, bye.
AMANDA HAMMETT: Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast. If you are looking for even more information on millennials, get some free resources, visit my website at amandahammett.com, the link is below, it's amandahammett.com, there you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those millennials engaged on a day to day basis. Because we all know that millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 02: Millennials: the Quest for Learning and Making an Impact appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.
Understanding Millennials seems to be a difficult mountain to climb for many people. Millennials are often seen as lazy and entitled employees, But what if you could meet millennial employees who are NOTHING like the stereotype? What if you could meet millennial employees who are smart, motivated, productive and engaged every single day at work. And what if, those rockstars could help you with understanding the millennials in your own life?
Welcome to the Millennial Rockstars podcast where we interview millennials who are absolute rockstars at work. This podcast is for company leaders who are looking to understand the mystifying millennial generation. You will hear directly from the rockstars that every company wants to hire on exactly what attracts them and keeps them working hard every single day.
Share the LOVE and TWEET about this episode. *Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to Millennial Rockstars.*
Tweet *Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The Transcript - Understanding Millennials Hey there and welcome to the Millennial rockstars podcast this is season 1 episode 1, and I just wanted to give you this quick little episode to introduce you to the show so, My name is Amanda Hammett, and I'm known as the millennial translator because I help companies attract retain and engage top millennial talent.
But on the millennial side, I help them to develop the communication and leadership skills that are going to be necessary because whether you're ready for this or not Millennials will be leading corporate America in the not-too-distant future and our job is to help sure make sure that they're ready for that.
So my philosophy when I'm working with large fortune 500 or a small you know medium-size small to medium-sized business is that if you do not understand Millennials there's no way that you can lead them, and you definitely can't keep them and that is a really expensive problem to have in fact I think that the turnover of millennial employees if not showed up as a line item on P&L statements I think that there would be a lot of CFOs that went that are having heart attacks across the country.
So, that's one of the main reasons why I put together this podcast because there's a lot of misinformation out there about the millennial generation especially when it comes to Millennials as employees so this particular ass this particular podcast is going to be all about focusing on How do you attract Millennials how do you retain Millennials and of course how do you keep them engaged and productive at work.
So, season one is where I have gotten Millennials from all different industries all different job types and I've interviewed them and asked those questions now in order to be a guest on the show you had to be nominated you had to be nominated by a boss or a co-worker who can actually vouch for the fact that you are awesome at your job and a rock star every single day and basically you are nothing like the stereotypical millennial so you can't be lazy you can't be entitled and you can't think that you know more than everybody else that's just not the kind of person that we wanted on this show. So, when I started pitching this idea for doing this show I had a lot of people ask me Amanda are you actually gonna be able to find Millennials who are not you know lazy and entitled but surprisingly actually not surprisingly to me but I had a ton of people that were nominated and I actually just didn't have time to interview every single one of them but I want to don't worry there are going to be more seasons coming forward but this first season is 20 rock stars who are from all different age ranges of the Millennial spectrum. So you have some Millennials who have been in the workforce for 15 years or so and then you have Millennials who are fresh out of college and only been working for two or three years and everybody in between but some of the consistent themes showed up over and over and over again and again I'm a big believer in the fact that if you don't understand Millennials you can't lead them and you definitely can't keep them.
So I thought that some of my takeaways might be really helpful for you so one of the big things that you're gonna hear pretty much in every single episode is that Millennials have this consistent need for continuous learning they want to always be learning. They want to consistently be challenged what I heard from several different interviews was that you know once they've been in a role for two years or so they're really ready to take on a new challenge. So, whether that's you know a stretch project or maybe that's doing a lateral move you know they want to consistently be challenged they want to continue to use their mind and work their mind.
They don't want to just show up and collect a paycheck which is I think what we often think about with Millennials now the second big takeaway that I learned or that I saw over and over again was that Millennials really want to be treated as human beings so I know Millennials are known as snowflakes but you know this is really more about being treated as a human as an individual, as a person, which we all really want at the end of the day.
Corporate America sometimes has or in the past several decades has gotten this reputation for being a little bit cold and you know treating everybody as their a cog in this larger corporate wheel but Millennials really do want to make their mark on their team and on the company as a whole but they want to do it as an individual they want to be an individual contributor to an even larger team so that's really where this humanistic idea comes in where they really do want to be treated like an individual.
Now another interesting point about this is the is technology and how technology has done some great things for productivity and efficiency and has really brought us together in ways that you know we've never been able to do before but it's also allowed us to miss out on some of those human aspects of work you know that that human to human connection and as human beings were actually hardwired to want and desire that human to human connection and Millennials they're just asking for that. So, the third thing that I really saw a loud and clear in season one was that coupled with the first two so continuous learning and being treated as individuals or human beings Millennials actually can be some of the most loyal employees that you'll ever see and you're gonna see that in multiple interviews here multiple.
There's one lady who walks us through a deeply personal experience in her life and how her company which is a very conservative company really came through for her and she actually used the phrase that she would run through walls for them it's an amazing thing and that's an extreme example but there are many many others where you know bosses and company leaders showed grace and real true leadership to these Millennials and that loyalty it's coming through because when you have a millennial who is a loyal employee they're gonna be incredibly hard-working and incredibly profitable for you your team and the company as a whole.
So, join us for season one of the Millennial rock stars caste I think you're going to get a ton out of it don't forget to share it on your favorite your favorite podcast platform we are out there for basically everything that you can find a podcast on and if you have questions let us know so tune in for this episode learned from the Millennials themselves and we'll see you in season 2.
Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the Millennial Rockstar podcast if you are looking for even more information on Millennials and some free resources visit my website at www.AmandaHammett.com
There you can download a free millennial employee engagement guide that will give you all kinds of tips and tricks on how to keep those Millennials engaged on a day to day basis because we all know that Millennials who are happy at work are more productive at work.
*Disclaimer: This transcript was created using YouTube’s translator tool and that may mean that some of the words, grammar, and typos come from a misinterpretation of the video.*
The post 01: Understanding Millennials appeared first on Amanda Hammett | The Millennial Translator.