Beyond The Pale: Recent Episodes
Steve Hackman
Beyond the Pale is a subversively sincere exploration of God, faith, life and culture hosted by former pastors and missionaries Steve & Tammy Hackman. It's a podcast for that person who finds more fulfillment in the journey than in the destination and doesn't mind coloring outside the lines a bit! Join us each week as we travel on pilgrimage together. We'll ask questions, question answers, and open a bottle of wine with you as we do. (Not a particularly good wine mind you, just one Tammy says we can afford)
Singer-songwriter, guitarist, and didgeridoo player Scott Darlow uses his music to advocate for First Nations Aboriginal community in Australia. On today's episode he shares about the opportunities he has had to perform in schools, prisons, and concert venues across the world bringing a message of Hope to combat the cynicism and tribalism of today's society. Along the way he shares how his message is shaped by the teachings of Jesus and as well as some of his experience living in Hong Kong as a child.
Go Beyond the Pale with Scott Darlow!
Author and documentarian Alan O'Hashi shares with Steve & Tammy highlights from his book Beyond Heart Mountain including the impact the internment of Japanese - Americans during WW2 had on his family and the Japanese community in the American West. Along the way, we discuss Alan's experiences living in an intentional community and the advantages and challenges that come from that. Go Beyond the Pale with Alan O'Hashi! Find Beyond Heart Mountain here Alan's YouTube channel can be found here
Author & speaker Keith Giles returns to discuss with Steve & Tammy his new book Sola Mysterium: Celebrating the Beautiful Uncertainty of Everything.If God is a Being that transcends imagination, how we can learn to embrace mystery of Christ. Along the way, Keith shares how Charismatics can understand their experiences, re-wiring your mind for "gratitude", and why it's often scientists, and not theologians, who convey a sense of wonder of the Universe.
Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles!Episode Index
1:16 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
11:30 - That time when we “know” everything
12:20 - Intro to “Sola Mysterium”
15:59 - What to do with our “charismatic” experiences?
22:44 - “Everyone is hypnotised on a daily basis”
28:30 - Blurring the line between natural & supernatural
34:44 - Why quantum physics scientists are starting to sound like theologians
42:02 - Why “Sola Mysterium”
43: 56 - Can we “rewire” our brain toward gratitude?
52:59 - J.J. Abrams & his Mystery Box
57:40 - The wonder found in Creation
Find out more about Keith's books, classes, and content here: https://www.bk2sq1.com/aboutme
Keith Giles returns to the podcast to discuss with Steve & Tammy his final book in the seven part "un" series Jesus Unarmed: How the Prince of Peace Disarms our Violence.Along the way Keith also explains where American Christians get their fascination with "redemptive violence", why Evangelicals should re-think their "End Times" theology, and what God really meant when he said we should "be Holy as he is Holy".
Go Beyond the Pale with Keith GilesEpisode Index
1:51 - Intro discussion with Steve and Tammy
12:31 - Conversation with Keith begins
16:02 - “All my heroes carried guns”
23:10 - Did Jesus ever use violence?
31:04 - It’s hard to introduce Jesus to Christians
44:18 - Re thinking the “End Times”
49:19 - How to really be “Holy as God is Holy”
Brian Zahnd returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book When Everything Is On Fire and how despite a season of doubt and deconstruction a stronger, more confident faith is possible when it is grounded in the beauty of Christ. Along the way Brian discusses pilgrimage, contemplation, and how his journey on the Camino de Santiago inspired the book.
Go Beyond the Pale with Brian ZahndEpisode Index
2:06 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
11:06 - Conversation with Brian begins
13:04 - Brian and Peri share about about pilgrimage
24:26 - Talking all things Camino de Santiago
30:00 - Brian discusses his new book “When Everything is on Fire”
34:46 - Deconstructing and renovating our faith
37:25 - Beauty will Save the World
51:50 - Notre Dame is on Fire
1:02:34 - Christians of the future
Simon Rammaci has been active in sharing with Christians that to follow Christ is to be a peacemaker. He discusses with Beyond the Pale his work with various groups including the Christian Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament to help promote non-violent alternatives in today's increasingly volatile world. Along the way Simon shares a bit of his faith journey which led him from his homeland of Italy to working with various churches in the U.K.
Go Beyond the Pale with Simon Ramacci! Episode Index
1:20 - Intro with Steve
3:34 - Conversation with Simon Ramacci begins
4:03 - From Italy to the U.K.
9:33 - Orthopraxy vs. Orthodoxy
16:45 - Discovering a theology of non-violence
36:57 - Helping Christians to see the Christ Way of non-violence
Simon Rammaci has been active in sharing with Christians that to follow Christ is to be a peacemaker. He discusses with Beyond the Pale his work with various groups including the Christian Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament to help promote non-violent alternatives in today's increasingly volatile world. Along the way Simon shares a bit of his faith journey which led him from his homeland of Italy to working with various churches in the U.K.
Go Beyond the Pale with Simon Ramacci! Episode Index
1:20 - Intro with Steve
3:34 - Conversation with Simon Ramacci begins
4:03 - From Italy to the U.K.
9:33 - Orthopraxy vs. Orthodoxy
16:45 - Discovering a theology of non-violence
36:57 - Helping Christians to see the Christ Way of non-violence
University Professor and former bassist for the Christian punk band "Undercover" Ojo Taylor returns to discuss a recent blog post he wrote as he turned 65.
Getting older ain't easy but Ojo reflects on the benefits that ageing brings including wisdom, perspective, and an understanding of what's really important in life. And of course with his very public transition from Christian musician to atheism we go on frequent tangents discussing God, faith, the nature of belief, and morality without religion...among other things!
Go Beyond the Pale with Ojo Taylor!5:23 - Conversation begins
10:23 - When "friends" unfriend over belief differences
15:57 - Discussing ageing, mortality, and stages of life
16:32 - The benefits of therapy
24:48 - Comparing ourselves to others
25:52 - With age, "Time" becomes our currency
44:56 - No longer trying to "save the world for Jesus"
53:10 - Discussing morality without religion
Hannah Land is an Occupational Therapist and administrator for the online community Progressing Church. She joins Beyond the Pale to discuss the how theology can be employed to address the personal suffering and trauma experienced by many. Along the way she opens up about her own experience with sexual abuse as well as sharing some of the life giving understanding of Christ that have helped her and others on their journey. We also touch on spiritual deconstruction and the process of engaging with others.
Go Beyond the Pale with Hannah Land!Episode Index
1:08 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
9:00 - Conversation with Hannah begins
10:47 - What is trauma theology?
18:00 - Hannah shares her personal experience
20:39 - Jesus & the trauma he experienced
32:41 - Spiritual Deconstruction- Is it just a "white people" thing?
42:40 - When is it OK to provoke other people?
The release of Denis Villeneuve's much anticipated adaption of Frank Herbert's "Dune" has drawn the inevitable comparisons to the David Lynch's 1984 adaption. On today's special episode I sit down with movie critic James Marsh to do a deep dive into who really did it better; Dune 1984 or Dune 2021
Episode Index
3:20 - Paul Atreides (Kyle Maclachlan vs. Timothy Chalamet)
8:24- Do we have a bias for the 1984 Dune film
10:40 - Duke Leto (Jurgen Prochnow vs. Oscar Issacs)
15:80- Lady Jessica (Francesca Annis vs. Rebecca Ferguson)
17:11- Baron Harkonnen (Kenneth McMillan vs. Stellan Skarsgard
26:16- Supporting Cast 1984 vs Supporting Cast 2021
35:29- Faithfulness to the book 1984 vs 2021
42:28- Film Score (Toto vs. Hans Zimmer)
46:00- Final comparisons Dune 1984 vs Dune 2021
Steve Barker joined us back in Episode 41 to talk about Re-Thinking Church and now comes to my rescue to help spare me of the boredom of a mandated 14 days isolation in a Hong Kong hotel room. Along the way we discuss the COVID situation, my confirmation in the Anglican church, and making the Christian faith practical in the world around us.
Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Barker!
Episode Index
1:23 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
8:37 - Conversation with Steve Barker begins
9:00 - The effects of quarantine isolation
15:15 - When do we just learn to live with Covid?
22:00 - Traveling Internationally during Covid is expensive
29:32 - Joining the Anglican church
38:19 - Musing on the need for "church"
48:26 - Practical applications of Christianity vs. "Finding God's Will for my Life"
Our Camino Tales series continues as we sit down with our pilgrim friend Diarmuid O'Reiley to discuss some of our shared adventures together on the Camino de Santiago. Along the way Diarmuid shares a bit of his faith journey, the Lord's Prayer in Gaelic, as well as some political thoughts including an Irish perspective on America's fascination with Donald Trump. My son Gabriel who walked our 2015 with Diarmuid also joins us in the interview.
Go Beyond the Pale with Diarmuid O'Reilly!
Episode Guide
1:10- (Intro) Steve in Covid quarantine
8:57 - Conversation begins & Guinness is opened
10:40- Talking Camino De Santiago
22:05- The Lord’s Prayer in Gaelic
23:01- Going from Catholic to Charismatic
32:31- An Irish perspective on Donald Trump
44:20- When the truth loses it’s currency
49:32- Reminiscing Camino times with Diarmuid
50:35- Taking Communion on the Camino de Santiago
1:01:01: Pilgrim friends on the Camino
Keith Giles returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book Jesus Unforsaken in which he argues the real Good News of Jesus has been replaced in much of today's church with a toxic message originating with John Calvin in the 1500s. Keith explains why its crucial to return to the historic Christ-centered view of the cross that sets people free from sin and unveils a God of love who would rather die than live without us.
Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles!
Episode Index:
1:34- Intro with Steve
5:02- Conversation with Keith begins
8:06- Catching up with Keith since our last podcast together
12:53- What is "atonement" and why it's important
22:21- "To realise God is NOT a monster"
32:12- Alisa Childers and "progressive Christians"
33:56- Discussing a recent history of Christian "boogymen"
37:37- Labels and how followers of Jesus might identify themselves
42:26- Peace Catalyst podcast and building bridges with the Muslim community
52:45- How to choose the path that leads to peace with others
South China Morning Post and RTHK Radio 3 movie critic James Marsh sits down with Steve for their annual Academy Awards predictions. Along the way we discuss the the nominees in the major categories, who we think WILL win vs. who SHOULD win, and why Brian Cox played a better Hannibal Lector than Anthony Hopkins.
Go Beyond the Pale with James Marsh!
Episode Index:
1:13- Steve’s Intro
4:28- Interview begins / Small Talk
10:14- Best Actress in a Supporting Role
21:02- Best Actor in a Supporting Role
31:05- Best Actress in a Leading Role
38:10- Best Actor in a Lead Role
41:44 - (Tangent) Anthony Hopkins vs. Brian Cox as Hannibal Lector
46:44 - Best Actor discussion resumes
54:28- Best Director
1:10:39 - Best Picture
On today's episode Steve sits down with two of his good friends who are nominal Trump voters to help better understand why Christians seem fascinated with conspiracy theories and why they tend to fuel them rather than extinguish them. Along the way we discuss Donald Trump, the Epoch Times, and how Christians can be conditioned into toxic patterns.
Episode Index:
2:17- Intro with Steve
12:16- Was Portland destroyed by Black Lives Matter?
14:10- What does the "main stream media" report on?
21:35- What's on the horizon in "conspiracy land"?
33:24- Refusing a peaceful transfer of power brings violence
41:38- The trusty Epoch Times?
51:50- The habit to defend our Christian "tribe"
55:24- Why Christians struggle to believe Biden can do good
1:05:40- What we think about God matters
David Morgan joins us to discuss University of Chicago Political Science professor Eric Oliver's new book "Enchanted America: How Intuition & Reason Divide Our Politics". Along the way David helps explain why many Americans are increasingly embracing bizarre conspiracy theories in an attempt to make sense of a complicated and changing world.
Go Beyond the Pale with David Morgan!
Episode Index:
1:25- Intro with Steve
7:07- Conversation with David begins
9:40- Why Americans are not divided by ideology but by thinking styles
17:00- Why the brain creates mental shortcuts to explain the world
28:28- Can you be a rationalist & believe in the Bible?
34:44- How people respond when they feel judged
47:30- Fragile masculinity leads to even more bizarre behaviour
57:28- Conspiracy theories are a reaction to fear
Filmmakers David & Kathi Peters sit down with Steve & Tammy to discuss their new documentary Postcards from Babylon which takes aim at the growing Christian Nationalism within American Evangelicalism. Along the way they share about the impact of Donald Trump on the church, filming Brian & Peri Zahnd while on the Camino de Santiago, and the film's timely message of the Hope still to be found in embracing the Way Jesus proclaimed.
Go Beyond the Pale with David & Kathi Peters!
Episode Index:
1:38 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
10:35 - Conversation with David & Kathi begins
11:06- Growing up in the centre of Evangelical Christianity
20:29 - “In my house you couldn’t be a Christian and a Democrat”
31:12 - The “Postcards from Babylon” documentary
34:46 - Filming with Brian & Peri Zahnd on the Camino de Santiago
45:01- Tammy shares how the film moved her to tears
50:16- Filming Walter Brueggemann
54:55- Postcards from Babylon reminds the viewer there is hope
Pilgrim Bruce Ayling sits down with Steve to chat about their 2015 journey on the Camino de Santiago. Along the way Bruce shares how his pilgrimage in Spain helped him to understand his Christian faith in a deeper way.
Go Beyond the Pale with Bruce Ayling!Episode index
1:40- Intro with Steve & Tammy
7:40- Conversation with Bruce begins
13:33- Learning to see God as a Father
26:44 - Doing the Camino in segments
30:33- Highlight of Bruce's Camino de Santiago
40:04- Future "bucket list" pilgrimages
Author Paul Ellis returns to talk about his new book "The Silent Queen" and why the church needs women to find their voice. Along the way Paul shares historically how we got to this place of sanctioned gender discrimination in the church and what God's original plan was and can still be.
Go Beyond the Pale with Paul Ellis
Episode Index:
1:14 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
10:30 - Discussion with Paul begins
15:45 - Background to "The Silent Queen"
24:20- How Aristotle and Plato's sexist ideas infected the early church
27:25 - We think we're not sexist, but we are
38:15 - Tammy explains why women remain silent in the church
48:30 Paul explains why we can often support sex discrimination in the church wrongly believing it's God's plan
On today's episode Steve has a conversation an old friend, Steve Bowens, on issues surrounding race issues in America and specifically the Black Lives Matter movement Along the way Steve, who is an African-American educator from Colorado, also shares how his Christian faith has shaped him not only in his approach to race relations but in all areas of his life's journey.
Go Beyond the Pale with Steve Bowens
Episode Index
1:35 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
12:24 - Conversation with Steve Bowens begins
18:35 - Steve shares his Christian faith journey
27:10 - When the church gets partisan
35:24 - Discussing Black Lives Matter
50:00 - Positive ways forward in race relations
Dave Griffiths and Rob Grayson return to Beyond the Pale to discuss what a healthy deconstruction and eventual reconstruction in faith might look like. Along the way we discuss Creeds, politics, racism, gender inequality, and why Christianity seems the one area where its OK to NOT grow up!
Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Rob Grayson & Dave Griffiths!
Episode Index:
1:20- Introduction with Steve & Tammy
5:25- Conversation begins
12:05- Race & Gender in 2020
14:46- Defining modernity and “post”- modernity
22:59- Do Creeds create a static world view?
33:45- Detaching our faith from politics
45:38- Is what you believe proven by how you live?
1:02:00- When Christians learn to grow up
My brother Andrew returns during a hot elections season to talk about the two subjects you aren't suppose to talk about in polite conversation; politics and religion.
Along the way we discuss abortion, nationalism, and spell Trump holds over many American Christians.
Get Ready To Go Beyond The Pale with Andrew Hackman!
Steve was interviewed on Hong Kong's Radio 3 "Morning Brew" show to discuss his 1,100 mile Via Francigenapilgrimage and the upcoming memoir chronicling the journey!
Actor Jason Tobin who stars in the hit TV show Warrior sits down with Steve & Tammy to share his acting journey; the highs, the lows, the frustrations, the lucky breaks, and the perseverance that helped get him to where he is now.
Along the way Jason shares what it was like to grow up in Hong Kong, the power of a teacher to inspire, his love of Story, and even our mutual desire to see Hong Kong's airport renamed Bruce Lee International.
Go Beyond the Pale with Jason Tobin!
Episode Index:
8:14: Conversation with Jason begins
8:36- Stories from the set of the TV series Warrior
26:40: The Bruce Lee connection to Warrior
28:18: Working with The Fast & The Furious director Justin Lin
32:29: Growing up in Hong Kong
34:12- The power of an inspiring teacher
39:12- Moving to Los Angeles at 18
44:00- Starting at the bottom: Being an "Extra"
52:52- When your dreams imprison you
54:30- Love of martial arts
1:00:50- Becoming a filmmaker
1:12:13- Jason's belief in the power of story
Long time friend Kit Tso shares a meal with Steve & Tammy and with the help of a little Scotch and Irish whiskey discuss faith, humanity, God, and the advantages of bringing "reason" into one's spiritual journey.
Along the way Kit shares some funny anecdotes of riding a motorcycle from London to Belfast!
Go Beyond the Pale with Kit Tso!
Episode Index:
3:40 Conversation with Kit starts
11:32 Driving a motorcycle to Belfast
25:04 What do we really believe?
38:46 Processing Faith
43:00 Circular or linear spiritual path?
53:00 Applying reason in faith
1:00:20 Connecting faith to real life
Gary Brightman is a Hong Kong based writer and filmmaker who shares his story of turning some of the dreams into realities. Dreams like moving to Hong Kong, attending film school, making documentaries, and finally opening Vibe, the coolest used book and vinyl record store in the city.
Go Beyond the Pale with Gary Brightman!
Episode Index:
1:33- (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss staycation in Hong Kong
8:28- Conversation with Gary Brightman begins
15:00- Gary is “bit” by the Hong Kong bug
19:42- Paying the bills vs. following your dream
21:08 - Going to film school
28:56- Opening a book and music store
31:02- “Vibe” as a community space
Vernon Pitout is an entrepreneur and business coach who has been a friend of Steve & Tammy for many years. On today's episode they reminisce on their spiritual journeys, discuss the pros and cons of leaders with a vision, and explore some of the challenges the church faces in the 21st century.
Go Beyond the Pale with Vernon Pitout!
Episode Index:
1:30- (Intro) Steve & Tammy reminisce over the church they started 25 years ago as well as how to deal with the crazy of a polarised world. 21:24- Conversation with Vernon begins
24:48- Doing Good in Church but questions arise
35:38- Thoughts on Worship
43:16- God deals with everyone individually
50:53- Understanding real Freedom
1:04:04- The Pros and Cons of Visionary Leadership
Lori Marty has had a long journey. Growing up in a Pentecostal home she went on to become a missionary to Pakistan and eventually a Vice President at Word Entertainment, one of the largest Christian music companies in the world. However it was these experiences, along with others she shares that forced her to seriously re-examine her faith. In the process she traded her "certainty" in for "ambiguity" and has become much happier and content in the process.
Go Beyond the Pale with Lori Marty!
Episode Index:
1:50- (Intro) Tammy discusses dealing with depression and mood
17:57- Conversation with Lori begins
19:18- Decluttering house
25:28- Evangelicalism: Weird…but Safe
29:14- How Lori inspired Steve to become a missionary
32:49- Experimenting with Calvinism
39:51- Positive Church community
47:23- Being taught not to trust non-Christian “experts”
50:50- Loving family who love Trump
56:52- Being a Vice President at Word Music
59:54- Why working with Christians can make you question Christianity
Kevin Miller is a screenwriter and filmmaker whose works encompass a number of documentaries including "Expelled" with Ben Stein and the film "Hellbound" which examined various Christian perspectives on the notions of hell. On today’s episode Kevin shares with Steve & Tammy about his faith Journey as well as his newly released documentary J.E.S.U.S.A which examines the roots of Christianity's age old alliance with nationalism, violence , and Empire.
Go Beyond the Pale with Kevin Miller!
Episode Index
1:42- (Intro with Steve & Tammy)
10:23- Kevin shares his faith journey background
20:47- How Kevin got into filmmaking
28:26- “Hellbound” and what’s the point of the Gospel with no hell
36:17- Kevin’s new film J.E.S.U.S.A. reminds Steve why he is still a Christian
47:23- Christian non-violence and the problems it presents
1:01:54 - Christianity’s entanglement with Empire from Constantine to America
Alia Eyres holds a Juris Doctorate from the Georgetown University Law Centre and a Bachelor of Arts in International Affairs from the George Washington University, where she was also a member of the NCAA Division 1 Women’s Rowing Team. She shares with Steve & Tammy her journey that led her out of the world of corporate law to become the director of Mother's Choice, a Hong Kong based charity bringing hope and new stories to vulnerable teenage mothers and families across the city.
Along the way Alia shares about the racism she encountered growing up as a “mixed race” child, how kindness and hospitality were instilled in her by her parents, as well as how her faith in Christ has sustained her through life’s challenges.
Go Beyond the Pale with Alia Eyres!
Episode Index:
:35 (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the effects of the COVID-19 virus
15:27- Conversation with Alia Eyres begins
21:51- Mother’s Choice
23:17- Coming from a mixed race, faith, culture family
30:02- Learning Hospitality, Generosity, and Kindness from a young age
40:45- Leaving law to lead Mother’s Choice
47:57- Alia learns that God is better than she ever thought possible
Sara Morano is a world traveller and ultra marathoner who just happened to run into Steve on the 1,100 mile Via Francigena pilgrimage from Canterbury to Rome. Sara shares her journey on the ancient pilgrimage as well as the stories of reaching the top of the Alps with Steve.
Along the way she shares about training as an ultra marathoner!
Go Beyond the Pale with Sara Morano
Episode Index:
1:11 - (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the Via Francigena, the Coronavirus, and spiritual deconstruction
26:29- Conversation with Sara begins
29:29- Running the Comrades Marathon in South Africa
37:06- Making room reservations on the Via Francigena
42:25- Sara reaches the top of the Alps with Steve
54:05- Miracles on the Via Francigena
South China Morning Post and RTHK film critic James Marsh sits down with Steve for our annual Oscar predictions show. That's right we take a short break from our usual show format questioning Life, the Universe, and Everything (whose answer we all know is "42") to discuss the best films and performances of 2019. James will give his predictions on who will be taking home the gold at the 2020 Academy Awards as well as some thoughts on those that got snubbed along the way.
Go Beyond the Pale with James Marsh!
Episode Index:
5:06- Predict Best Supporting Actor
Tom Hanks, "A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood"
Anthony Hopkins, "The Two Popes"
Al Pacino, "The Irishman"
Joe Pesci, "The Irishman"
Brad Pitt, "Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood"
20:06 Predict Best Supporting Actress
Kathy Bates, "Richard Jewell"
Laura Dern, "Marriage Story"
Scarlett Johansson, "Jojo Rabbit"
Florence Pugh, "Little Women"
Margot Robbie, "Bombshell"
36:34- Predict Best Actress
Cynthia Erivo, "Harriet"
Scarlett Johansson, "Marriage Story"
Saoirse Ronan, "Little Women"
Renée Zellweger, "Judy"
Charlize Theron, "Bombshell"
44:02- Predict Best Actor
Antonio Banderas, "Pain and Glory"
Leonardo DiCaprio, "Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood"
Adam Driver, "Marriage Story"
Joaquin Phoenix, "Joker"
Jonathan Pryce, "The Two Popes"
59:24- Predict Best Director
Martin Scorsese, "The Irishman"
Quentin Tarantino, "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood"
Bong Joon-ho, "Parasite"
Sam Mendes, "1917"
Todd Phillips, "Joker"
1:17:21- Predict Best Picture
"Ford v Ferrari"
"The Irishman"
"Jojo Rabbit"
"Joker"
"Little Women"
"Once Upon a Time...in Hollywood"
"Marriage Story"
"Parasite"
"1917"
We start 2020 unplugged! Thats right, no guest, no interview...just Steve & Tammy talking about what they are hoping to do holistically, fiscally, and all around emotionally for the new year...and the new decade! Along the way we discuss minimalism, healthy eating, and yes, even Tiny Houses!
Go Beyond the Pale in 2020 with Steve & Tammy!
In this special holiday bonus episode of Beyond the Pale Steve journeys to the land of Israel and interviews some of his International travel companions about highlight experiences from their time in the Holy Land.
Go Beyond the Pale in Israel!
Episode Index:
00:17- Steve (USA)
6:46- Danny (Israel)
15:01- Ryan (UK)
19:30- Christina (UK)
25:19- Georgina (New Zealand)
27: 58- Kaze (Hong Kong)
In this episode we catch up with Ojo Taylor, formerly of the Christian punk band Undercover. Join us as we discuss pretty much everything from sin and ethics, to whether America can still be the bulwark of stability it has been in the past. Along the way Ojo questions whether Christians should be promoting a God that requires a blood sacrifice in order to forgive....and other hot button topics.
Go Beyond the Pale with Ojo Taylor!
Episode Index:
1:13- “(Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss how to love people radically even when its hard
21:47- Talk with Ojo Taylor begins
22:22- When your country goes off the rails
32:28- How Ojo’s friends have reacted to his “de-conversion”
37:06- Evolving beyond the “Volcano god”
40:01- Should we fear or embrace “secularisation?”
53: 30- Ethics & Sin
1:07:19- Some hope for America
1:16:32- When Christian musicians lose their prophetic voice
Educator and Bible teacher Jonathan Mellen shares how adversity has shaped his attitude and approach to life. Along the way he shares his story of being a "missionary kid" whose Christian faith now continues to grow in ways he hadn't expected
Go Beyond the Pale with Jonathan Mellen!
Episode Index:
1:03- (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss Rob Bell, why Jesus wants to save Christians, and how to see the whole human race as family
21:10- Conversation with Jonathan begins
24:28- How Jonathan first came to Hong Kong
43:04 - How our faith matures
47:20 - Authenticity in Christianity
50:01 - Suffering and Glory
58:56- What is the church for?
Author, teacher, and monastery preacher Brad Jersak joins us to discuss his new book and how Christianity can recapture a more "Christ-like" identity. Along the way Brad shares his own journey and the struggles that have shaped his understanding that God is always loving and on our side.
Go Beyond the Pale with Brad Jersak!
Episode Index:
1:05 - (Intro) Steve and Tammy discuss faith, weight loss, and the Rugby World Cup
18:08- Brad Jersak shares his story
28:19- Bad atonement theory is not the Gospel
36:49- Brad’s dark night of the soul
43:07- Learning from people rather than “targeting” them
46:34- Discussing Brad’s new book “A More Christ-like Way”
48:47- “Christians” vs. “Christ-followers”
57:08- Brad shares with Tammy some steps to help her develop a contemplative faith without jettisoning the Holy Spirit
1:06:17 Brad contemplates walking the Camino de Santiago
1:07:22- A more Christ-like Way is inclusive
Beyond the Pale celebrates it's 100th episode by sharing the journey of David Hayward aka "the Naked Pastor". David is a former pastor turned cartoonist whose satire and critique of Christian culture has helped many Christians around the world re-think what following Jesus might actually look like. Along the way David shares his own story that we know will inspire you on yours.
Go Beyond the Pale with David Hayward!
Episode Index:
1:04- Intro with Steve and Tammy on the 100th episode
16:40- Conversation with David begins
21:16- David's journey
35:30- Exploring beyond the church's "invisible line"
49:30- Developing spiritual health when "deconstructing"
54:16- The Church still has so much to give
Australian Brett Moore is an International lawyer who shares his journey of being involved with the Christian Charismatic movement, leaving the legal world for a time to attend Fuller Seminary, and eventually finding his faith land in the Episcopal (Anglican) Church. Along the way Brett opens up about his own experiences of being a victim as a young boy in the sex abuse scandals rocking the Church recently.
Go Beyond the Pale with Brett Moore
Episode Index:
1:00 - (Intro) Steve and Tammy answer a listener’s questions
24:48 - Conversation with Brett begins
30:28 - More flexible theologically getting older
38:10 - Entering and (mostly) leaving Charismatic Christianity
54:40- Good and Bad ways of relating to God
1:14:05 - Church Life in '90s Hong Kong
1:31:20 - Trying to balance Bible scripture and experience
1:53:25 - Brett opens up about his own experiences being abused as a child in the church
Emily Eldridge is an International artist whose murals and illustration work have taken her to places as far away as Hong Kong, Barcelona, and Berlin. She shares with Steve & Tammy some of the struggles as well as the joy that has come from following her artistic passion. Along the way Emily discusses her faith and how that has shaped her on the journey.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Emily Eldridge!
In Part 2 of our talk pastor and author Derek Vreeland discusses what it means to "Practice Resurrection", how his own faith has matured over the years, and then gives some advice to Christians who are deconstructing their beliefs. Along the way Derek shares three books that has helped shape his faith on the journey!
Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Derek Vreeland!
Episode Index:
1:20 (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss podcasts, Hong Kong, and CBD oil
14:48: What it means to “Practice Resurrection”
20:48: Untangling the “knots” of Reformed Theology
24:54: Faith turning from “water” to “wine”
32:30: Advice for “deconstructing” Christians
43:20: 3 books and authors who have shaped Derek Vreeland
Pastor Derek Vreeland joins us to discuss his new book "By the Way" where he unpacks the idea of discipleship and shares some things he's learned on his journey that could help you "Follow Jesus"
Go Beyond the Pale with Derek Vreeland!
Episode Index:
1:21 - (Intro) Steve & Tammy share a bit on the Old Testament and how to navigate it
15:49 - Interview with Derek begins
21:26- Derek’s journey
29:46 - Bringing Critical thinking and experience together
34:52 - Charismatic experience and meeting Brian Zahnd
46:40- The draw of liturgy on charismatics and evangelicals
49: 40- Forming discipleship habits
53:14 - Forming prayer habits
What happens when patriotism runs amok? When it goes from something good and positive into something twisted and a little weird. My brother Andrew Hackman explains "fetish" patriotism and why its not helping a world that could use a little help right now.
Go Beyond the Pale with Andrew Hackman!
Episode Index:
1:48: (Intro) Tammy’s Birthday at our favorite restaurant
18:28 - (Interview Begins) What is Fetish Patriotism?
24:00 - “Loving your country like an adult and not a 4 yr old”
31:02 - The problem with Christian Nationalism
44:12 - Combating Tribalism
48:48 - Not being “offended” is good for your health
My brother Andrew returns to the show to discuss a number of topics including social media, faith, and how "loving your enemy" works even if you don't believe in God. Along the way we'll also talk about how to engage those weird, uncomfortable Bible bits.
Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Andrew Hackman!
Episode index:
2:05 (Intro) Steve and Tammy discuss the impact of social media
20:20 Interview begins
25:17 “I’m an Atheist”
30:40 Engaging with people on Facebook
38:00: Ignoring those uncomfortable Bible bits
48:29: Thinking and Overthinking
1:10:48 A faith without agenda
Tony Bottagaro is an award winning playwright, author, filmmaker, and speaker who serves as Special Advisor on National and International Affairs to the Chamber of the Americas. Tony shares with Steve & Tammy how the message of God's Love has shaped his journey and given him the opportunity to address the United Nations, officials at the Pentagon, and even have an audience with the Pope.
Go Beyond the Pale with Tony Bottagaro!
Show Index:
1:36 (Intro) Steve & Tammy share a live report from the Philippines
12:23- Interview with Tony begins
15:13- Planting a Seed of Love
25:55- Meeting the Pope
29:59- Pushing people to “convert” just pushes people away
37:20- Tony and Steve share anecdotes about their friendship
46:47- The power of an act of kindness
52:12- Faith communities also need to hear the message of God’s love
In Part 2 of our interview, Kristian Holmes shares his ongoing journey as he and his wife forge a new path of relationship with God outside the normal church structures. Along the way we discuss the Holy Spirit, embracing Mystery, and why you can't "un-see" what you have seen.
Go Beyond the Pale with Kristian Holmes!
Episode Index:
1:07 (Intro) Steve & Tammy talk about how Richard Rohr’s “The Universal Christ”
22:18: Interview begins- Experiences with God
29:26- “Same issues, different churches”
36:23- Forging a new way of doing Life
56:26- You can’t “unsee” once you have seen
Kristian Holmes shares of his journey that took him out of a trajectory towards senior church leadership. When an understanding of what Christ had done unraveled his grace vs. law paradigm, he and his wife had no choice but to blaze a new trail outside the church structure and the security, financial stability, and identity it had provided. Along the way they discover a God way bigger than they originally known.
Go Beyond the Pale with Kristian Holmes!
Show Notes:
2:15 (Intro) Steve & Tammy talk about what prayer looks like for them
27:27: Talking the Camino de Santiago
35:48: Kristian describes his spiritual journey
39:19: Introduced to “Universalism”
41:08: Kristian becomes “Born Again”…again
51:45: …but Fundamentalism doesn’t like to let go
58:50: How to connect with God outside of the church structure
Brian Zahnd returns to share with us topics from his new book Postcards from Babylon: The Church in American Exile. Along the way Brian discusses why so many American Christians have traded "the Way of Jesus" for religious nationalism as well as explaining to Tammy what "the Satan" actually is.
Go Beyond the Pale with Brian Zahnd!
Show Notes:
1:42: (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the sudden passing of Rachel Held Evans
16:00: Why the Jesus Movement Generation has embraced religious nationalism
20:44 Playing the “Jesus Card” in refuting religious nationalism
25:02 Liberating Jesus from “the Red, White, and Blue”
29:47 Front lines of Christianity: San Francisco or the Bible Belt?
36:36 What is “the Satan”?
Brian and Peri Zahnd return to share with us their pilgrimage on the Camino Portuguese; the 160 mile adventure running through Portugal and ending at the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela in Spain.
Along the way they share stories we hope will inspire you to perhaps walk your own Camino one day.
Go Beyond the Pale with Brian & Peri Zahnd!
Efren Gonzalez is a travel vlogger and filmmaker whose Youtube videos chronicling his journeys have been an inspiration and valuable resource for those planning their own pilgrimage. On today's episode Efren shares some "tales from the trail" including his most recent adventure across Europe on the Via Francigena.
Go Beyond the Pale with Efren Gonzalez!
Author, blogger, and podcast host Keith Giles shares a journey that led him away from the traditional church pulpit to planting a house church that gave away ALL money collected to the poor. No salaries, no building, not even for the Sunday morning coffee and donuts. Along the way Keith discusses Biblical inerrancy, Hell, and how he became co-host of the popular podcast Heretic Happy Hour.
Go Beyond the Pale with Keith Giles!
Show Index:
2:50 (Intro) Tammy has a bit of a rant
13:00 How Keith and his wife met
15:35 Keith’s spiritual journey begins
24:11 The Rapture and fear of being “Left Behind”
31:27 Orthodoxy vs orthopraxy
35:45: When a pastor starts to question
43:27: Beyond the “Emergent Church”
49:00: Making sense of the Bible
59:40: Starting a House Church
1:03:00: Heretic Happy Hour
Tammy and I traveled to England to attend the "Progressing Church" weekend as members of the online community gathered at St Luke’s Anglican in the city of Bournemouth. Over meals, music, poetry and talks we encouraged one another in our faith in Christ. Rob Grayson, one of the admins for "Progressing Church" sits down to unpack the weekend with us.
Along the way we discuss how a Christian might engage in politics, deconstructing faith, spiritual cliches, and navigating social media in a civil way.
Journey Beyond the Pale with Rob Grayson!
Maybe its because we are both Americans but in Pt 2 of our talk with Jon Bryant we discuss the polarising intersection of faith and politics in America today and whether Jesus can provide a "third way" to navigate between Democrat, Republican, Liberal, or Conservative.
Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Jon Bryant!
Show Index:
1:30: Intro with Steve & Tammy
20:28 Our decisions can create a lot of damage
25:25: Racism under the surface
35:18 Living up to America’s ideals
39:34 Having grace for those we disagree with
57:56 Jon shares with Tammy “Your journey isn’t over”
Jon Bryant shares his journey from an early Christian faith wrapped up in fundamentalism towards a walk with God having a lot more grace for himself and others. Along the way Jon discusses Christian schools, rugby, and why the Bible isn't always age appropriate.
Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Jon Bryant!
In Part 2 of our talk with lawyer, educator, and filmmaker Marylou Verberne we talk about the challenges facing the church today in face of a renewed expectation of transparency and accountability. Does the church need a #metoo movement to stem chronic abuse and manipulation?
Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Marylou Verberne!
Marylou Verberne is in many ways a Renaissance woman. She is skilled in just so many fields including law, education, and the dramatic arts including creating powerful performance art that have wowed audiences at International Fringe festivals in her native Australia . In Part 1 of our conversation Marylou shares about her early Christian experiences including the challenges she had adapting to Evangelical Christian culture and working for the church.
Get Ready to Go Beyond the Pale with Marylou Verberne
Episode index:
1:03- Intro with Steve & Tam (Guest intro and holiday happenings)
19:00- Marylou begins her story
25:50 - Challenges adapting to church culture
33:20- Doing a “church” performance at a “fringe festival”
44:20 - When a church fires you
53:50- Foundational "cracks" within the modern church
Tammy and I are joined by my brother Andrew who is back for a special Christmas episode of Beyond the Pale. As a former Evangelical Christian turned atheist Andy gives some of his thought provoking perspectives on the holiday season. And can you have a family holiday discussion without the conversation turning political? Join us as we spend a little (ok, a lot of) time analysing Evangelical Christianity's fascination and support for all things Donald Trump!
Get Ready to go Beyond the Pale with Andrew Hackman
Episode Index:
1:20 - Intro
5:20 - Politics and Trump
30:18 - Christianity without Fear
39:15 - "I was a missionary, I can't afford to retire"
44:20 - "Can We Finally Talk About Christmas?"
Live from the Britons Protection pub in Manchester England we continue our talk with Steve Priest and follow his journey in finding God not "out there" but in community with other people. Along the way we discuss the impact of Peter Rollin's Wake Festivals and the dynamics produced when we form Temporary Autonomous Zones!
Get Ready to go Beyond the Pale with Steve Priest!
Episode Index
1:28 Intro- Steve & Tammy discuss the Clockenflap Music Festival
21:37: Live from the Britons Protection pub in Manchester England
22:38: Steve talks about connecting at Greenbelt Music Festival
34:45: “God” is in everything that lives
38:08: Engaging with Peter Rollins and the Wake Festival
41:28: The dynamics of Temporary Autonomous Zones (TAZ)
1:01: (Bonus) Original recorded Pt 2 with Steve Priest
What happens when you sincerely look for God...and He doesn't show? When you seek but don't find and knock and no one answers? Steve Priest shares his journey of looking to have a relationship with God he perceived others to have but couldn't seem to experience himself. What starts as a journey of frustration becomes much more alive as Steve begins to see God manifest through relationships with friends and interactions with the community.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Steve Priest!
1:44 Intro- There are no coincidences / the Camino provides
15:15 - Meeting at Pete Rollins “Wake” event
24:53 - Steve’s Journey
29:59- When everyone else feels God but you don’t
32:32- When you can’t change people, start something new
42:22- Taking responsibility for our decisions and morality
Steve shares with Tammy as well as friends Mark & Christine Cattanach about his recent pilgrimage walking 1000 miles from Canterbury England to Rome Italy. Along the way he tells the stories of good people, changed hearts, and a few lessons learned. Also what it is like to trust in "the Camino to provide".
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Steve & Tammy!
From Covent Garden in Central London I continue my conversation with theologian and philosopher Barry Taylor. Barry delves into how culture shapes our beliefs and faith...and even shares how the difference between C.S. Lewis' "Narnia" and J.K. Rowling's "Harry Potter" is reflected in the changing theology and culture of our times.
Get Ready to Go Beyond The Pale With Barry Taylor!**
Episode Index:
1:02 Intro with Steve & Tammy
15:00 Church, Culture, and Belief
21:08 Does the world need Christianity to have morality?
33:23 Narnia or Harry Potter
40:00 “If you get rid of hell, you have to get rid of heaven”
46:39 Differences between Europe and the United States
Barry Taylor has come a long way since travelling backstage with the rock band AC / DC. Since those early days touring his journey has taken him from arena concerts, to exploring philosophy, encountering Christianity, becoming a church leader, and finally to a place where "something doesn't feel right".
Barry then unpacks how his faith deconstruction has led him to a place where enjoys walking the line between the sacred and the profane, atheism and theism, and inviting others to join along for the ride.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Barry Taylor
Show Index:
2:40 Intro with Steve & Tammy
16:10 Do our religious “ghosts” ever really go away?
24:59 Barry shares his Journey
37:04 Considering Christianity…and sex!
41:36 Christianity and “something doesn’t feel right”
49:15 Barry unpacks why nothing has changed in the church for 25 years
Singer - Songwriter Tom Read returns to Beyond the Pale to share the story behind his new record "Lament" and how that emotion has expressed itself in his Christian journey recently. We also chat with Tom about the recent Royal Wedding as well as an anecdote or two from his recent performance live for HRH Queen Elizabeth ll.
Get Ready to go Beyond the Pale with Tom Read!
Episode Index:
1:19 (Intro) Steve gives a short Via Francigena update from the top of the Alps in Switzerland
7:37 The Royal wedding and the impact of Rev Michael Curry
12:00 Tom shares about performing live before Queen Elizabeth
16:23 Openness and transparency
18:19 “Lament” and the “Dead Things to Life” video
24:23 The Journey continues
37:33 Seeing the “bigger picture” in life, faith, and God
Steve gives a short update while on his "Via Francigena" 1,000 mile pilgrimage while passing through the Montreal Jazz Festival in Switzerland.
Adam Benner returns to Beyond the Pale to talk about what the Kingdom of God is and what it means for followers of Christ today in the here and now. Is it just a place where God rules in the "here after"? To what degree does it have ramifications for followers of Christ in this life?
Steve also gives an update as he walks the 1000 mile "Via Francigena" from Canterbury England to Rome!
Ever thought of taking a trip to Burning Man; that week long event in experimental community that takes place in the Black Rock Desert every summer? Our friend Natalie Chan shares her adventures at Burning Man 2017 and explains it's focus on "radical inclusion", "self -reliance", and "self -expression"!
Get Ready to go Beyond the Pale with Natalie Chan at Burning Man!
We continue our talk with entrepreneur Natalie Chan as she shares her journey establishing OWN Academy and the challenges she has faced confronting rigid structures and mindsets. Her successes as well as her setbacks will be an inspiration to you on your own life journey.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Natalie Chan!
Show Notes:
1:04 Steve’s Intro
5:26 Challenging set structures
14:10 Diversity and New Perspectives
17: 34 Pushing through to achieve your goal
29:40 Overcoming setbacks
Natalie Chan is an educator and entrepreneur who is helping to rethink and reshape new ways of learning for the 21st century. She shares her story of entering the corporate world only to then see a different path leading her to addressing areas of justice and the betterment of society through new educational paradigms.
Go Beyond the Pale with Natalie Chan!
Episode Index:
1:12 Intro to episode with Steve & Tammy
9:50: What pulls us away from what we are used to?
17:00- Natalie’s story begins
28:00 - Opening our mind to other cultures
35:00- Entering the corporate world
36:40- Creating opportunity despite rejection
49:36- How do we learn?
In Episode 71 Christine & Mark continue their story and share about Christine's new position as an "Intergenerational Missioner" for the Anglican Church. How she seeks to connect various generations with each other and the church has implications for all of us in an increasingly changing society.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Mark & Christine Cattenach
Show Index:
00;20 Intro with Steve & Tammy
17:05- Investing resources in people
28:18 Becoming a “Missioner”
38:00 Gungor & The Big Church Day Out
Steve travels to London England on today's episode to sit down with Mark and Christine Cattanach as they share how and why they took a break from church. Their story of hitting the pause button to find their bearings and reflect will be an inspiration on your own journey. Get ready to go beyond the Pale with Mark & Christine Cattanach
Show index:
1:20 - Intro with Steve & Tammy
12:12 - How going to church became a challenge
26:36 - What God wants or what we want?
39:13- Finding church in different places
45:12- Held hostage to “Words from God”?
RTHK Radio 3 film critic James Marsh sits down with Steve to discuss this year's Oscar race, review the Best Picture nominees, and give his predictions of what films will be taking home the gold at the 90th Annual Academy Awards.
Show index:
9:00- Best Supporting Actor
20:50- Best Supporting Actress
35:57- Best Actor
49:08- Best Actress
1:04:00- Best Director
1:15:44- Best Picture
Padraig O' Tuama is a poet, storyteller, musician, and leader of the peace and reconciliation community called Corrymeela in Belfast Northern Ireland. Padraig discusses with Steve his journey as he navigates culture, faith, sexual orientation, and even his understanding of God with a religious structure often at odds. He shares the stories of how he learned to do so in a way that that brought peace to himself and those around him. Go Beyond the Pale with Padraig O'Tuama
Episode Index:
1:07 (intro) Tammy reads selected sections and poetry from Padraig’s book “In the Shelter”
15:12- Growing up Catholic in Ireland
19:54 - Being Catholic in an Evangelical surrounding
34:43 - Living in Community
39:19- Faith & Sexual Orientation
45:35- The Devil? Who is he?
55:05- The Corrymeela Community
1:00:34- “Blessed are the Peacemakers…”
Youth Pastor Rich Kifer, a previous guest on Beyond the Pale, asked if he could chat with me by phone to discuss some questions as he deconstructs, and attempts to reconstruct, his faith. He kindly allowed me to record our conversation as I suggested it might help others who are also processing their faith. Along the way Rich and I discuss hell, suffering, Biblical violence, and some bad church experiences. I even share about the time the church board shut down my high school dance. Yes, Footloose is not just a movie for me.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Rich Kifer
Show Index:
0:53 (Intro) Steve in London England
9:30- Why I can't be an atheist
13:05- Bible Literalism?
24:45- Deconstructing Hell & Salvation
35:30 - Changing "how" we believe rather than "what" we believe
47:09 On Suffering
1:09:28- Reconstruction
Martin Daniel, Beyond the Pale's "geek" correspondent, sits down with Steve & Tammy to discuss and review the latest installment in the Star Wars franchise; The Last Jedi. Does the return of Luke Skywalker live up to the hype? Or does the film fail to deliver?
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Martin Daniel!
Steve & Tammy podcast from Hoi An Vietnam on where their faith journey has gone recently and how they are increasingly looking to living in "the now". When we spend our energy looking to the horizon we can overlook they people, needs, and even opportunities that are right in front of us.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Steve & Tammy in Vietnam!
Show Notes:
4:46- Greetings from Vietnam
9:18- How our journey has changed and "living in the now"
14:55- Tammy shares on learning to judge others (and herself) less
24:20- Being freed from appeasing the "monster" God
Award winning author Paul Ellis talks to Steve & Tammy about his new book A.D. 70. Unlike the anxiety produced by many books on prophecy and the fear of being "left behind", AD 70 offers a hopeful and "good news" alternative to the "last days." Drawing on an in-depth study of the scripture alongside forgotten lessons from history Paul reinterprets the dark tales of vengeance and judgement through the lens of grace.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Paul Ellis
Show Notes:
4:42 - (intro) Talking pilgrimage walks with Paul
10:24- Paul explains why the year AD 70 was so important
17:41- Why a Grace author writes a book on the "End Times"
22:34- Talking the Rapture and the Return of Christ
32:08- The "wrath" of God probably ain't what you think.
Paul Ellis has impacted and inspired tens of thousands across the world with the message of God's unconditional love for them through his award winning books as well as his Escape to Reality blog. On today's episode Paul shares with Steve & Tammy the journey he has walked and the insights into God and Life he has learned along the way.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Paul Ellis!
Show Notes:
4:50- (Intro) Walking across Europe & Tammy’s new dogs
8:17- Paul’s early life
12:50- Paul’s story arriving in Hong Kong
15:44- From university professor to pastor
19:47- Introduced to Grace
28:54- Why Christians mix Jesus & The Law
40:11- Escape to Reality
47:00- Why some Christians struggle with a God without conditions
Tre Cates shares how he initially became involved with, and then went on to be the Chief Operations officer for, the Savory Institute; a group that is literally saving the planet! Tre then explains how the holistic management and regenerative practices he has seen implemented through the Savory Institute has helped him understand how those same practices could be applied in business and work environments around the globe.
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Tre Cates!
Show Index:
2:10 (into) Tammy talks about a new love of philosophy and asking questions
12:50- How Tre got involved with the Savory Institute and and what they do there
30:36- How a system seeking short term benefits have brought long term consequences
39:22- How a "regenerative" system needs to replace an "industrial" system
51:19- Unleashing the full potential of people
Steve sits down with Tre Cates to talk about the journey he has been on for the last twenty years. Tre has gone from being church planter to a successful entrepreneur of a tech company, and ultimately to becoming Chief Operating officer for the Savory Institute, which, if you are NOT one of the over 4 million people who have watched Allan Savory’s 2013 TED Talk, the Savory Institute is an organisation, that is saving the planet….literally!
Tre has traveled to 6 continents and worked in 35 different countries for the Savory Institute consulting with organisations and government officials on applying regenerative holistic practices to land management that is making Earth that had been reduced to desert- green and arable again.
Tre sat down with me to share the journey of how he got to where he is now, as well as how the regenerative applications and practices they are learning to apply to the Earth can be applied to churches, businesses, governments and humanity as a whole….pretty much wherever 2 or more are gathered….well, you get the point Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Tre Cates.
Show Notes:
2:40 (Intro) Tammy shares about how the family used Steve’s trip away to sneak two new puppies into the house
18:56: Tre shares his passion of seeing people’s lives transformed into who they were created to be
20:33: Tre questions “the system” from early on
27:50: Why church models are not sustainable
29:26: Embracing a decentralised “non-event” based community
42:42: Tre shares how his journey led him to ask “What was I put here for and how can I fulfill that purpose”
46:19 “Beautiful examples of creation in it’s complexity”
48:52: “We can have community, we can have real impact, we can serve people and you don’t need an organisation to do that”
Steve & Tammy continue their talk with Brian Zahnd as they unpack his new book "Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God." Brian shares with us pilgrims why Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross was NOT a payment to God and how thinking it is has been skewing Christians view of the Father for years.
From there we move to chatting about hell and while Jesus did speak a fair bit about hell, Brian suggests what he was referring to was not an after life torture chamber but rather the consequences (aka, the hell) we unleash on ourselves and the world around us when we fail to walk in the Way of Love Christ came to demonstrate
We wrap our time with Brian as he shares a bit on what the Book of Revelation is really trying to tell us…and it wasn’t what we were told in church growing up
Get ready to go beyond the pale with Brian Zahnd
Show Index
2:10 (Intro) Tammy shares how fear had crept into her faith
16:50 What if Jesus spoke to the U.S. Congress?
24:16 Was Jesus’ death a payment to God for our sins?
29:44 What is Hell?
31:50 “If you can’t preach the gospel without mentioning heaven or hell, you can’t preach the gospel”
41:36 What the Book of Revelation is trying to tell us
Brian Zahnd returns to Beyond the Pale to discuss his new book "Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God". As one of the leading voices in the church today Brian takes aim at Christian's endorsement of fear, violence, and nationalism reminding us that our God looks like Jesus and ONLY Jesus. Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Brian Zahnd.
Show Index
2:06 (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss the effect “fear” theology has had on their faith
14:48 Brian shares an update from their Camino pilgrimage in Spain a year out
28:54 How the Jesus Movement generation became the political “Christian Right”
34:00 Brian shares how he “woke up” into a new understanding in Christ
39:20 How the “fear” theology of Jack Chick cartoon tracts still impact the evangelical church today
41:45 When Christians see Jesus not as a teacher but simply a cog in God’s atonement process
We continue our discussion with Rebekah Pine and hear more of her journey as a young Christian living in Egypt and Jordan. Now a wife and mother of three young children Rebekah goes on to explain how her work in the Middle-East isn't over as she returns to Jordan to work with refugees fleeing the Syrian civil war.
Show Index:
1:57 (Intro) Steve & Tammy discuss “The Shack”
13:19 Rebekah shares what it was like being a Christian with a Muslim roommate
26:24 Life as a Syrian refugee in Jordan today
39:57 Having the support of family and church to return to Jordan
43:42 Rebekah shares some last thoughts and hope for the refugee situation in the middle-east
Rebekah Pine shares her journey of being a student of Middle East studies living in Egypt and Jordan and how years later, now a wife and mother of three children, feels a draw by God to return to Jordan to help alleviate the suffering of refugees fleeing from the Syrian civil war. Along the way Rebekah shares how her own faith was enriched and deepened as she navigated a Muslim world.
Show Notes:
2:30- (Intro) Steve & Tammy muse about Shakespeare
17:19- Rebekah shares how she first got interested in the Middle East
22:57- Moving to Egypt
26:10- Encountering the Muslim faith for the first time
42:10 - Having a humility in our understanding of God
43:14- Dialogue with Muslim friends
47:24- Rebekah shares anecdotes of being a female Hong Kong Chinese in the Middle East
50:52- Moving to Jordan
Part two of our talk with journalist and science writer Nury Vittachi continues to explore the tension between faith and science. Along the way Nury shares about the power of forgiveness as well as some of the positive attributes faith in general, and Christianity specifically, bring to the world around us.
Show Notes:
1:33 (Intro) Steve and Tammy discuss cynicism towards Christianity and their own struggles at times with it
10:39 Nury shares how his interest in science first began
13:00 Creating a space beyond “Atheist vs. Theist”
27:58 Why young people are leaving church
35:39 Christianity and why its what's on the inside that counts
Journalist, author, and science writer Nury Vittachi joins Steve & Tammy to discuss the faith / science divide and shares with them how he navigates between those two worlds. Along the way Nury shares some childhood memories with famed author Arthur C. Clarke, whether the universe is indeed "conscience", and explains how the building blocks for reality is made up of ideas.
Join us as we travel Beyond the Pale with Nury Vittachi!
Show Notes:
1:54- Intro Steve and Tammy discuss a Facebook post on “worship”
16:38- Nury shares his background
19:50- “Materialist” vs. Quantum Physics
23:28- Can science be “mystical”?
34:40- Asimov, Sagan, and religion
37:01- Nury shares personal stories with Arthur C. Clarke
47:42- The moment God did “something”
This week we continue our talk with long time youth pastor Rich Kifer. Rich shares some of the wisdom he has learned, sometimes the hard way, as his spiritual journey has taken a number of twists and turns through the years. Along the way we discuss some of the litmus tests Christians tend to judge orthodox purity, the state of Christian and faith based movies, as well as advice Rich has for young people who feel they have a “call to ministry”
Get ready to go Beyond the Pale with Rich Kifer
Show Notes:
1:31 Intro- Steve & Tammy discuss Chinese Sichuan food and American politics
19:58- Discussing “Christian Movies”
29:36- Rethinking “salvation”
33:41- Turning “Good News” into “Terrible News”
40:51- Why do we “obey” Christ?
1:03:54- Advice for young people going into ministry
Long time youth pastor Rich Kifer has seen a lot of changes in Christianity during his years of ministry. In today's episode Rich shares with Steve his journey which has caused him to reevaluate some aspects of his belief that has ultimately led to a better life and a better faith Journey with us Beyond the Pale with Rich Kifer
Show Index
1:45- Steve & Tammy discuss Robe Bell's new book "What is the Bible"?
12:40- Rich shares how "not" knowing is ok
22:14- Rock and Roll ain't Christian
31:19- Why the next generation is apathetic to faith
43:39- Running a Christian Halloween "Haunted House"
52:28- Anger at what the church is doing to the next generation
Sceptic David Young, who has been a friend to this podcast and frequent guest, tragically passed away this past April after a months long battle with ALS. Steve had the opportunity for a final conversation with David at his home, sitting on his balcony, covering a range of topics including politics, movies, living life with a terminal illness, and why he refuses to give potential employers his CV. Journey with us as we pilgrimage Beyond the Pale one last time with David Young. Enjoy!
For many Americans, nationalism and patriotism are as much a part of their Christianity as any teaching of Christ. But does God see America as "exceptional" in the same way Americans do? Which flag do we really fly higher? When does our allegiance to earthly countries put us at odds with God's Country. Former pastor Giles Parker explores these questions with Steve & Tammy on this weeks episode.
Show Index
13:14- Road to Emmaus
24:25- Erasing Boundaries
27:00- "I love America...but..."
36:21- Using Jesus for political agendas
51:20- Who is in God's Kingdom?
Giles Parker returns to the show to help us wrestle with the tension of reconciling belief with experiences. What happens when they don't line up? Have we replaced critical thinking with learning to handle and dismiss the ideas we don't want to entertain? Join us with Giles as we head out Beyond the Pale.
In Part 2 of our discussion with C. Allen Ries, Allen discusses the idea of Biblical inerrancy and how Christians may be better equipped viewing the Bible through a more progressive lens. Along the way Allen shares how he has replaced "knowing" with "seeking" and how we would all be better off learning to view others through the eyes of God
Show Index
9:45- Examining Biblical inerrancy
20:46- Allen shares why he still believes in God
24:06- "Seeking" vs "Knowing"
27:12- Are Christian Creeds exclusive?
33:45- Seeing others through the "Imago Dei" (Image of God)
C. Allen Ries is a Christian music minister who shares his story coming to terms with a sexual orientation at odds with the faith he grew up with. Allen's initial struggles as well as the peace he ultimately finds is sure to be an inspiration for you on your journey. Along the way Allen also shares how as a "white guy" he found himself working primarily in African - American churches.
Show Index
9:58- Allen & Steve share their shared church history
13:03- "White guy" in a "Black church"
23:12- First cracks in the "belief" wall emerge
28:26- A painful divorce leads to more questions
31:30- "wrestling" with sexual orientation
36:04- Allen finds peace with God and himself
Filmmaker Mitch Birks & resident Beyond the Pale "Geek Corespondent" Martin Daniel join Steve to discuss and review the new film Wonder Woman. Along the way they detour into the recent X-Men movie Loganbefore they explore the themes of God, religion, ice cream, and existential crisis found in Wonder Woman.
Part 2 of our conversation with Cornel and Rensia Marais. Hear them share what it is like to test their belief system and question the very premises they had arranged their lives around.
Show Index
12:35- Experiencing rejection when you question
20:51- Taking a "break" from God
29:25- A faith healer questions faith healing
43:36- Renisa shares her journey into doubt and discovery
Former "grace preacher" Cornel Marais along with his wife Rensia share with Steve & Tammy their journey into Christian ministry...and back out again. With both honesty and humour Cornel & Rensia share their ups and downs as they attempt to figure out God, church, and life...
Show Index
9:40- Church 3 times a week???
14:06- Faith Healing Days
26:34- In the Grace Camp
31:04- "Entering the Rabbit Hole"
37:15- Pagan Christianity?
40:47- Closing the ministry
A second live update from Spain as Steve & Tammy journey on the 500 mile pilgrimage, the Camino de Santiago!
Steve & Tammy give a short update of their month long pilgrimage across Spain on the Camino de Santiago. Included is their exhausting first day as well as catching up with some Camino friends from Ireland that leads to an outdoor Irish sing-a-long.
Steve continues his interview with Ojo Taylor from the punk band Undercover. Along the way they explore more of Ojo's experiences coming out of the Christian faith while navigating the legacy of having been a voice and catalyst for people's faith within Christianity.
Show Notes
17:05- Fans discover Ojo has left the faith
22:20- Applying reason and logic to life
32:46- Is everyone who loves born of God?
47:26- Ojo on "belief systems"
Ojo Taylor, bassist, keyboardist, and vocalist for the renown Christian punk band "Undercover" shares with Steve the journey he has travelled from being a voice within Christianity to the chance encounter that forced him to question, and ultimately abandon, his faith. Along the way Steve suggests he has, perhaps, become more "Christ-like" in the process.
Show Index:
10:15- A Catholic Childhood
18:47- "Undercover" begins
28:47- More Christian as an "Atheist"?
30:00- Christian "tribalism"
49:02- The encounter that changed everything
Steve & Tammy celebrate Beyond the Pale's first year exploring life and faith through the lens of pilgrimage. Along the way the look at the highlights of 2016 as well as what 2017 has in store. The episode is a reminder that Beyond the Pale is a resource for those who see faith as a journey and a reminder that you are not alone.
Steve Barker tells us how theology and even "loving God" can become exhausting and what we can do about it. Along the way Steve suggests I view Matthew 5 "the old American way" and we close the show by discussing The Shack.
Show Index
9:15- Matthew 5 "the old American way"
13:05- Theology that is exhausting
25:35- "Loving Jesus" can be exhausting as well
29:40- Fear as a tool for control
33:44- How shame keeps us in line
36:24- Discussing The Shack
Former church pastor Steve Barker sits down with Steve & Tammy to share how he left the "Sunday morning church" in order to find church in the life and people around him.
Show Index
5:50- God's "clear" Biblical model?
11:15- How "no manipulation" changed everything
17:58- It's all about relationship
21:03- The current system ain't so bad
29:28- Tammy's thoughts on leaving church
37:22- Releasing control
40:59- New thoughts on "grace"
RTHK Radio 3 film critic James Marsh sits down with Steve to discuss this year's Oscar race, review the Best Picture nominees, and give his predictions of what films will be taking home the gold at the 89th Annual Academy Awards.
Show Index
8:06- Arrival
18:14- Fences
21:16 Hacksaw Ridge
25:37- Hell or High Water
30:50- Hidden Figures
36:11- La La Land
42:56- Lion
50:45- Manchester by the Sea
1:03:41- Moonlight
1:11:05- Best Actor
1:12:45- Best Actress
1:16:51- Best Supporting Actor
1:18:35- Best Supporting Actress
1:21:25- Best Director
Part 2 of our conversation with Dave Griffiths has Steve & Tammy discussing what Christians are actually basing their faith on and what effect that has on the church today. We also examine the challenges and risks faced by those pioneer ministers who are wanting to step out and be part of this new frontier of church in the 21st Century however "Being the Change" sometimes comes with a price.
Show Notes
6:30- What are Christians basing their faith on?
12:40- Is there a generational change happening?
18:00- The risks of ministers wanting to be part of the change
22:30- The church is going to need leaders with day jobs