Managing the Way: Recent Episodes

View Details

This week on the podcast we have Brett Putter. Brett chats with me about all things culture. He is the CEO of Culture Gene and has a large emphasis on making sure people fit in the culture their company creates. It was a great conversation about what this looks like, the best practices of culture, and what to look for when joining a company, or changing your culture from the leadership perspective. He also talks about his books that focus on making culture unique and valuable. Click here for the link.

Find Brett on his website Culture Gene or email him at brett@culturegene.ai

Full transcription below (May contain typos...):
[00:00:00] Brett: [00:00:00] But you couldn't really take one. They can copy it because that would be copying somebody else's culture and that doesn't work like that. You can't copy another company's culture. Your culture is unique to you.

Keerstyn: [00:00:11] Welcome to the podcast, Brett. I am really excited that you're here today. Can you just tell us a bit more about how you got involved in it work and then what you do now?

To really change the world that

NA: [00:00:21] we live in today.

Brett: [00:00:23] Yeah, sure. Thanks, Kristen. It's great to be involved. And thanks for having me. I prior to setting up culture, Jean, I ran an executive search firm for 16 years based out of London and I worked with high growth, early stage companies. And I was lucky enough about five years ago now to work with three companies almost in a row where the leaders had a very clear understanding of the culture of the company.

And so I was asked to find candidates that had specific skills, experiences, et cetera, et cetera. But also I was asked to find candidates [00:01:00] that matched the values of the company. And this was a much harder search to do, but the process and the interviews, and then the resulting impact that the hand the candidates had on the companies was like a wow moment for me.

There was just that much better, and that's where I started really digging deep into company culture. And a year later I started culture, Jean. I interviewed had to speak to 500 companies to interview just over 50 CEOs of high growth companies that had done a very good job of embedding their culture.

I've written two books on the subject now and yeah, we've got a software driven process that we run with companies to help them define embed and manage their culture.

Keerstyn: [00:01:40] Yeah. So I guess one of my first questions would be where was like, what differentiates really good culture from like mediocre culture.

Obviously everyone can say that they have good culture and actually most companies do. But what does that almost defining line of? This is an amazing culture and companies are really thriving from it too. This is a [00:02:00] mediocre culture and they can obviously

NA: [00:02:01] do better.

Brett: [00:02:04] Okay. So there's only the only time.

A good or bad culture is a relevant question is in relation to me or you would, I enjoy working there or not, but within a company, there's no such thing as a good culture. There is only a functional or a dysfunctional culture, a strong or a weak culture. So a strong culture may not be the kind of company I would want to work in.

So for example, the mafia. Have a very strong culture and I wouldn't want to work in it. So it's not good for me, but it is still a very strong, functional culture. Scientology has a strong culture, but I wouldn't want to work in that environment either. So the way to look at culture is it strong and functional?

And what strong means is it's clearly defined it's everybody loves it. It's really embedded into the leadership team, the general [00:03:00] team, the functions and processes of the business and a functional culture means that the way we do things actually accelerates the business. Rather than decelerates the business.

So an example of a dysfunctional culture might be a company where there is a lot of politicking going on and the politics ends up slowing the company down because it's more about me, the individual versus the company. So you can have a strong, dysfunctional culture. Or a weak functional culture and a mix of those.

So my, from my experience that the stronger the culture, the more the leadership team and the CEO and work on it, focus on it. They embed it, they treat it like a business function and the weaker, dysfunctional cultures, the CEOs leave it to develop by default and don't rarely treat it respected in any way.

Keerstyn: [00:03:58] Yeah. That's [00:04:00] thank you for that differential or differentiation. I think that's really good to understand because oftentimes people say I want to be part of a great culture and that's obviously we can't just say you want to be part of a great culture. You need to look more in depth about it. So yeah, I guess what are some of those things that people should be looking for when they're looking for.

For jobs, like how did they see their own personal, like what they want in a culture and how do they define that? And how do they look for that in a company? Just like you have done with multiple

NA: [00:04:31] companies in the past.

Brett: [00:04:33] Yeah. So this actually isn't is is not an easy question to answer, really.

Especially if you're a candidate, because most candidates haven't actually gone through the process of really defining their values. They feel that this may be good or not. And frankly, most companies will have done some of the superficial stuff around the values and mission and vision, but they don't embed it.

But if I was interviewing for a position now I would be asking [00:05:00] these companies, tell me about. Your culture. And I would ask each individual, I interviewed with these questions in exactly the same way and look for consistency. So I'd say, describe your culture. Tell me why you work at this company. If you what's the one thing you could change, if you could change anything in this company and why.

Okay. All your values and mission and vision lived in the company. And the reality is the person you are, who's interviewing you. The person you're talking to will, will be honest in the most cases with you, because they don't want you to join the company. And then you realize they lied. So you can ask these questions.

Maybe not like pretty harmless questions, unless of course the company doesn't have a very strong culture and you can then dig a little bit deeper by asking each person these questions. What I would do now particularly is I'd be asking, what are you [00:06:00] doing around transitioning to remote work or hybrid work?

What are your communication tools look like and how synchronous versus asynchronous is your communication? What does the documentation look like? What are your processes defined? I would be going into this sort of level of detail because if a company isn't transitioning to a hybrid or remote environment they will not have these in place.

Which means that it's much harder for me to do my job if I want to work remotely some of the time or all of the time. And so companies now that are building strong cultures for hybrid environments are the ones who are going to be able to attract the best talent. It used to be campuses and three food and et cetera, et cetera.

Now it's going to be your culture. Tell me how your is in getting enabled me to work.

Keerstyn: [00:06:59] Yeah. Thank [00:07:00] you for that. That's really helpful. And those are solid questions to be asking during those kinda interviews. So my question to you is how do companies who are obviously, we've all been in this remote workspace for a year now give or take a year, which has been crazy.

But companies are really still struggling to do remote work well, and we've seen that time and timeout It's it's not completely obvious at times, but there are times where you sit back and you think, wow, this could have been done much better. Had we been on a campus or had we been in the workspace?

So what would you say to these CEOs or leadership roles that are still trying to make the remote or hybrid per se? A solid create a solid culture in this because it's just extremely difficult to be able to relate to the employees, be able to make sure everyone's on the same page.

That's extremely difficult when you have to do it over a zoom call. So how, what are some advice or some takeaways that you would give these [00:08:00] people to make sure that they're starting to move

NA: [00:08:02] in the right direction?

Brett: [00:08:04] So I my software, I started building my software about 18 months ago and the software was designed for distributed teams or remote workers.

And so about 12 months ago, I started studying these companies just before the pandemic hit actually. So about 13 months now. And I realized that there are certain things that remote companies do. Over and above and over index on, in comparison to typically office space environments. And the reason for that, and the reason for this need to do that is because they didn't have an office to rely on.

A lot of leaders became lazy about their culture or were lazy about their culture because they didn't have to really do that much about it because the office did it for them. The Osmo, SIS, the informal communication, the bumping into people in the [00:09:00] stairwell, the meeting, having coffee, having drinks afterwards, that kind of environment helped your culture develop.

And that culture which was pre COVID is now has now been. Obliterated and turned into a fully remote culture which most people are frankly struggling with, but not realizing that yet because we have what I call productivity and the culture is going to change again. When companies go back to hybrid and leaders are thinking that they can run a business, a hybrid business in the same way.

And it's much harder to run a hybrid business. So the nine best practices that I've found for that remote work companies really over-index on are that they are deliberate about their culture because they have to be, they focus on communication and building a communication architecture. They both structure into it into their environment.

They are very aware of people's wellbeing. They define all processes, even micro processes, [00:10:00] and they make them very apparent. They are anal about documentation. They are very deliberate about adapting, their recruitment process and their onboarding process. They lead through trust and they lead based on outcomes and results.

And these are really the fundamentals of where a business that was pre COVID in an office. The leadership team has to be thinking about these pillars.

NA: [00:10:32] Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:10:33] Thank you for sharing those that's those pillars that are really interesting. And I completely agree with them. There's just a lot. And it might be like, obviously it's overwhelming to have people be remote to not se an end in sight, although you could say we are.

But yeah, I think those are really important. So my question to you is how do leadership decide what's the most important out of those or how do we take a step in the right direction versus trying to tackle the [00:11:00] entire, a

NA: [00:11:00] monster type of

Brett: [00:11:02] thing? It's a lot. It is a lot of work. But what I do with my clients is we actually do a review of.

Those nine best practices inside the company. So what are we doing on documentation? What percentage of our processes are defined? How are we doing on social connection? What's happening now is people are spending a lot of time on zoom. And the last thing that we want to do is do another call on that zoom.

So the reason for that is because we're doing too much synchronous work and our communication architecture is not designed correctly. But I just, I said, I suggest you look at your organization to go on these missions and best practices, where are we? And in most cases, there is a, an area that a couple of areas that companies are doing okay on.

And most other areas, people, companies are struggling and I will make it. What I typically do is I make it the responsibility of the entire organization to start to solve for this as not just the leadership team. But it's the organization. And for example, if you want ideas around social [00:12:00] connection, because the quizzes you're doing and no longer working or the, know, the.

Ideas around drinks on Friday. And everybody's a little bit burnt out by that form. Again, get a group of people who are interested in that form committee and get them to start working with the rest of the team, get them to source ideas and come up with ideas. This is make it the responsibility the leadership team, if they're going to be ultimately they are.

But if they're going to drive ideas for this and they don't work, then the team are going to cross their arms and go. No, we're not interested. Cause you're the leaders and you should know, versus if it's the team responsible, then people will work with the rest of the team. So I recommend setting up a squad or a committee to help solve some of these

NA: [00:12:41] issues.

Keerstyn: [00:12:42] Yeah, I think that you bring up a really good point about that when I, and I've seen time after time that employees really aren't excited about something. If it's coming from leadership and they haven't been talked to or consult with, and then there's just a lack of communication and a lack of.

Excitement around [00:13:00] something versus if the leadership team goes directly to them, I believe Toyota made this a thing at one point. But basically it's going and talking to the actual people, the lowest people in the totem pole and saying, Hey, what do you value? What, how do you, how does this work? How can we make this better for you?

So I think that you bring up a really good point about that. So my question to you is what is the majority of what people struggle with this? Like obviously each company is different, but what are like the top three things that you have seen time after time that people are obviously struggling with?

So maybe some of our podcast, guests are not guests. Listeners are saying, wow, I actually am really not doing well in this department. What are those top three that the majority of companies really do

NA: [00:13:43] struggle

Brett: [00:13:43] with. So most companies ready? You can see the haze on the back of their neck.

Stand up. When I talk about documentation, because the idea of documented, documenting something and then for it to go, and what it typically happens with documentation is somebody writes something and then it dies in a folder somewhere. [00:14:00] And nobody ever looks at Jane. This idea terrifies. Yeah, but actually, if you look at what companies do they give documentation structure.

So there is an owner. Of the documentation that owner gives it an, a cadence of updates. The owner would invite the necessary people into participate and the owner will decide who the audiences is it internal project, internal company, internal team. Is it external? Is it customers? Is it the web.

And so by defining it and by, by giving an owner or giving an individual responsibility for documentation, you end up with a situation where I will write the important documents. I'll define the important processes and write the important documents associated with my process. And I will keep them up to date because they're important to me.

And I will look after them and I will [00:15:00] manage them and I will maintain them because they're important to me. But if you just ask somebody to write a document and dump it in a folder somewhere, and it has nothing to do with them, or really not, it's not important to their work, then it's frustrating. And it's not really that

NA: [00:15:17] useful.

Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:15:21] Thank you for that. That's a good point. I think you're spot on with that. And I really liked how you said almost like baby, the doc, like making, this is your child. Take ownership of it and run with it and make sure it's on the right path, but make sure. It's accessible and available to the people who actually need to be a part of it.

So I really liked that and I agree. Documentation is hard. So I, what'd you say about Having. So what we just talked about having the employee as a part of it, how do you consistently have documentation when the leadership team is trying to do trying to make some rules or new practices per se.

But the [00:16:00] employees are really like the heading it up. Would you say that the leadership team has to write it and then the employees report back? Or would you say the employees are more of that documentation and then they send it to a leadership team? Or what does that

Brett: [00:16:12] look like? No, if it's important to the leadership team, and this is a process that the leadership team feel is important, then the leader, then whoever owns that process, defines the process and writes the documentation.

And it's, so let's say for example, the chief people officer defines the onboarding process or the recruitment process. That's something that they manage. It's something that they run. So they it's their process. And you can't really argue with that. If you're, a mid-level manager going no, I don't want to do it like that.

Too bad. The company works.

NA: [00:16:48] Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:16:48] exactly. They thank you for that. Cause I think that's good to clarify as I like, if it's your thing, you have to own it and rock on and keep on going and make sure that you have a solid foundation or neath. Yeah. [00:17:00] So what are those other two things then that you've seen companies really

NA: [00:17:03] struggle with?

Brett: [00:17:04] Develop trust. Trust is an area that remote companies focus on and I bring up trust because you would think that trust is important to all businesses, but remote, most of the remote companies that I've interviewed or studied. Really over index on it. And to such an extent that they actually see transparency as an asset, because if we are transparent, then we have nothing to hide and most leaders are not transparent.

So going from a situation where I retain the information I need and feed it to the people who needed to being transparent is a really mind-bending process for most leaders. The thing about transparency is if you give transparency, you have trust. And if you have trust, you have psychological safety and Google did a two year research [00:18:00] study called project Aristotle on this.

They sliced and diced all their highest performing teams trying to work on what it was, what combination of things formed a higher performing team and the one consistent thing. With psychological safety where I can, I feel I can be myself. I can make a mistake and not be fired or have my head chopped off for it.

So building trust and building transparency results in psychological safety, which results in high performance.

NA: [00:18:31] Yeah.

Brett: [00:18:34] The third one is around. Transitioning to a synchronous communication because as human beings, we designed for synchronicity, we want this interaction. And even with some of the asynchronous tools that we've got like email, email is not really made for synchronicity.

We treat it like a synchronous tool because that's how we are the remote companies. [00:19:00] Pretty much all of them are, if it is a percentage, anything from a hundred percent. Asynchronous to 70, 80% asynchronous. So they don't hold meetings if they don't have to, they don't. No, they don't do video calls.

If they don't have to, they don't use email. They don't some don't like automatic don't use Slack because they don't want that synchronous situation. The synchronicity requires. Two things for you and I to be in, in this communicating like this in synchronicity, it requires presence. I had to be available at this time and it requires availability.

So presence and availability cost human time. I can't work now while we're doing this. Yeah. So if I have eight hours of meetings, I'm not working, I'm meeting, then I have to work [00:20:00] for another eight hours to catch up on what I didn't do. So that's why synchronicity is such a dangerous space to be. And that's why we are going to see a lot more burnout and a lot more anxiety and stress and mental health issues around the companies that don't well,

NA: [00:20:16] that's really interesting.

Keerstyn: [00:20:18] I'm glad that you mentioned that because I think that's completely realistic. Everyone's had a meeting that could have been an email or everyone, those types of things where you sit there and you think, huh that's not really working as best as what we could make it. So thank you for that.

One question I did have is why do you think that leaders are not as transparent as. What they're assumed to be, you said transparency is an asset, not just a, this is something that we do. Why

NA: [00:20:46] do you think that's the case?

Brett: [00:20:48] I think because we're not it's our leadership models have come from a hierarchical structure and that hierarchical structure was ultimately based [00:21:00] on who had information and who could pass that information down.

So the people on the factory floor did what they were told to do. And then the mid-level managers got enough information to manage them. And so on all the way down the pyramid and the people at the top had the most information. But now this has been flipped around because with the advent of digital communication and the internet, we all have lots of information at our disposal.

And so we can we can insured. Across the company, be able to take action and make decisions, which means we need as much information as possible, which means that we ideally don't need this middle management, these layers of middle management between us and the leadership team, which is the reason why over time, you've seen companies flatten because you then get immediate response times you get much quicker turnaround or much quicker reactivity or adaptability.

And. [00:22:00] We most of our leaders who are, I dunno, let's say 35 plus maybe 40 plus still have that hierarchical mindset. And we'd find companies in a hierarchical manner. And so we're not used to going, okay he has everything you need to know. He has the bank account, how much is in the bank accounts? He has the profit of our business, et cetera, et cetera, and explaining it in the way that people on the ground can go and say, okay, this is why I shouldn't do that.

This is why I should do this. And that transparency is doesn't come easily to us because we feel that it removes our seniority or it removes our ability to make decisions. And that's right. It should because the decisions are best made closest to the call. That's nice. Yeah. So that transparency, see, it doesn't come easily because of how we are designed in terms of power and leadership and [00:23:00] management.

And actually, if you look at how remote companies operate, they are typically much flatter and they are typically designed around individuals or groups of people on the ground, making decisions really quickly. That's interesting information. They need to make

NA: [00:23:16] decisions.

Keerstyn: [00:23:17] Yeah, that's really interesting.

Do you think that we're going to see adverse effects from flattening our companies? So obviously that hierarchy isn't nearly as large, what do you think are going to be the results of that going forward or in the

NA: [00:23:31] next 20

Brett: [00:23:32] years? I think if you look at how remote companies hire, they high foot for what they get lab, for example, hires for a manager of one.

Words, can you manage yourself? Okay. If you can manage yourself, then we trust you to get on with the job we give you. If you don't have the skills experience or knowledge, then we will give it to you. We will help you find it. And you [00:24:00] will have a manager who's there to support you. Is there to create the environment for you to succeed, not to tell you what to do.

Yeah. And so that flattening can work. If you hire the right people for that type of environment, or if you're transitioning to flat, you take away that middle management and just say to people, we know you have ideas, we know you have solutions. Tell us what they are. Let's solve this.

There are a number of companies that have been through this over the years where they've literally taken out the middle management and there's a guy named Ricardo Semler who took over his father's business. And he was pretty young. I can't remember now maybe 20, 21. And he shrunk, he eventually was ousted by, he was the owner of the business, the CEO, and he, I think he shrunk it down from something like 13 or 11 levels of management down to fall.

And ultimately, they said, Tim, we don't need you anymore. You can be the chairman. We're good. We don't need that extra [00:25:00] layer. And so they, and many businesses have been through this over the years. It's not easy for the middle managers to adapt. But these companies end up being much more adaptable and much more agile.

Ultimately if it's successful in that, if that process is successful,

Keerstyn: [00:25:13] Yeah, that's really interesting because a lot of the time people think that they do need that middle manager and that's a really vital role. But obviously that's not necessarily the case and it goes by each company.

Obviously people have to be smart about what they're doing in their own organization, but. You bring up a good point. What are, is that something that people are afraid of though, is losing that middle manager and feeling as though that leadership top tier will be getting more work or like those type of things.

Do you think you're seeing that in the industry?

Brett: [00:25:46] So if it depends on how many layers of middle management there are, but if you've got to stay any big organization and you have a lot of levels of middle management, then. The, I'm talking about, [00:26:00] I'm not talking about a 50% or a hundred percent company.

I'm thinking about the big organizations where you have three or four or five names, some sort of management in between the top and the bottom that you take up. Two of those nibbles of management, all you're doing is you're moving the steps and the time it takes for information to put, to process up and down the chain.

So the leadership team often don't get ended up, the top of the chain don't end up working harder and actually the bottom at the individuals below at the re at the bottom, don't end up working harder. They just end up working smarter because they have

NA: [00:26:33] no information.

Keerstyn: [00:26:34] Yeah. That's good to know.

That's really good to know. I'm glad that you said that And that obviously relates to that communication and making sure that is obviously solid and will go better moving forward. What are some tools that you would recommend companies to use to have a synchronous communication going forward?

Or how do you start going in that right

NA: [00:26:55] direction?

Brett: [00:26:56] So there are a bunch of tools and [00:27:00] solutions that different companies use, but it really depends on what type of company you are. If you are a knowledge working company, or if you're a manufacturing company, there, there are different solutions.

But if you think about the way to think about it is how can we move away from. Typically now previously everything being synchronous. In other words, face-to-face meetings calls responding immediately to email or Slack, et cetera, et cetera. How do we move from that situation? So now doing things using semi synchronous technologies, such as project management or forums or Google docs type where you can work on things asynchronicity over time and moving more towards companies, having handbooks or company manuals where all processes and all documents are in one place.

There's a single source of truth for all the documentation. So how do we move from low permanence [00:28:00] communication to hive high permanence communication? In other words, if I call somebody, unless I, unless somebody takes notes and shares it with the entire company, that's a low permanence because the call is gone.

But if I send somebody a message that is a, an email that they don't have to respond to in the next. Immediately or in the next two days, that email is an asynchronous tool where the documentation associated with that email is hype them. And if we start putting more and more information into our company, handbooks about our processes and our documentation, that becomes high permanence data.

The thought process of how do we move from low permanence synchronous. Communication to hype permanence, asynchronous communication. What tools can we use and what systems can we put in place? So for example, if you hold meetings, And you, and what you typically [00:29:00] happen is everybody jumps onto the zoom call and there is a very poorly written agenda and there is no pre documentation, or pre-work done put in some pre-work into the meeting.

In other words, before the meeting, you all have to have read this documentation and you need to answer these five questions. And so you at least know that people have thought about it. People have answered the questions and they're the meeting is at least two steps forward. By the time you start the meeting and then with regards to meetings, add an element of follow-up and execution against them.

Because if you think about it, the meet, the meeting now happens in a vacuum. Unless you share to the people impacted on that meeting, what needs to happen next? So creating a process for pre-work agenda, working documents, et cetera, et cetera, creating that process. And then post-meeting delivery on that is really, [00:30:00] it's a vital element of what companies need to do.

Keerstyn: [00:30:04] Yeah, thank you for that clarification. Cause I think it's good to take those baby steps and say, okay, so how can we make this slightly better? How, because change is really difficult on people and just going to an employee handbook would be extremely difficult for some people. Some people need that face to face interaction.

So how do we have a meeting? That's a bit more A little more documented or just making sure that everyone's on the same page or being slightly more prepared. Although some people might think it's this massive hurdle that you have to get over it truly isn't, it's actually making your time spent much more valuable.

I think that's good that you mentioned those middle steps to get to that eventually. What we would call like a company handbook or a source of truth, one source of truth. Thank you for that was really helpful. And I think people will value that significantly. Do you want to talk a little bit about your books and what they're about and give a highlight over those that people would be interested in

NA: [00:30:58] reading

Brett: [00:30:58] those?

[00:31:00] Sure. Thanks. , first book is called culture decks, decoded, and. Basically, I was inspired by Reed Hastings original culture deck for Netflix. This if you're, if you, if your audience haven't read this, I highly recommend it. It's a Reed Hastings was onboarding a lot of people weekend and week out.

And as part of that onboarding, he would do a presentation, which was a hundred and twenty-five pages basically explaining the culture of the business. This is so we are a sports team. If you're not performing at excellent level, we will bench, you will work on you. If you don't get back onto excellence, we will find some of the other things in this, in the slide deck, we advise you to go and interview.

At competitors for the same role. And if you work more in the same role, come and talk to us and we'll pay you, they pay top dollar. Yeah. A number of things in the slide deck that were really interesting and inspiring for me. [00:32:00] And I thought, okay let me look at that. As I looked at a sauna, I looked at LinkedIn, I looked at HubSpot hoot suite valve, and I realized that there was a S it was a framework to these decks.

But you couldn't really take one. They can copy it because that would be copying somebody else's culture and that doesn't work like that. You can't copy another company's culture. Your culture is unique to you. So what I did is I took the best slides from the dicks and I created a framework. Around how to think about writing your own culture deck from vision, mission values all the way through to diversity inclusion recruitment, transparency dealing with failure, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And so it's it's a really fun book. It's got an image and my comments as a subject matter experts or a candidates, potential candidates to your company, what Hastings eventually did. So you got so sick and tired of presenting this to people who are hired, but then 50% of those people would leave [00:33:00] after he presented the culture that you decided I'm going to put it online and he put it on on SlideShare and they, it's been written now.

It probably over 20 million times, I haven't checked recently, but it's been downloaded and viewed 20 million times. My second book is called own your culture. How to define embed and manage your company culture. And this really is a, I took the 50 interviews I did, and I crafted a basically how to go through the stages of building a culture from.

Your mission, your vision, your values, or your all the way through to values-based recruitment, onboarding probation, periods, dealing with bad hires or brilliant jerks how to embed your culture. And what I did is I took all the examples of the interviews I'd done and use these actual examples in the book.

So if you can turn to any page and most likely find an example of what a company is doing. To hire in [00:34:00] a remote environment or to do employee reviews or to deal with brilliant jerks and its actual company. Examples of the companies I've interviewed.

Keerstyn: [00:34:12] Interesting. That's awesome. I'm really glad that you mentioned those books.

I think that both are valuable. I'm actually going to go look at them now. Cause I think this sounds awesome. I really liked it if the idea of having the deck though, and it's almost like the best practice deck for Like making sure that your culture is like number one to these people. So I'm going to go look at them and I think that other listeners should go listen, look, or listen to them as well.

So yeah. Thank you for sharing those. So Brett, is there any other places that people can find you as

Brett: [00:34:42] well? Yeah, so people can find me on www dot culture, G E N e.ai. And you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Twitter. I love spending time talking to people so [00:35:00] about their culture. So if people want to talk to me about their culture, More than happy to, my email is Brett at culture, gene.ai, more than happy to have a chat and just shoot the breeze.

I'm a student of the subject and just love to learn about what people are doing and how they're doing

NA: [00:35:16] it.

Keerstyn: [00:35:16] Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. I obviously have learned a ton and we'll be going to a research more about culture. But I would encourage others to do so as well.

And come talk to you if they see

NA: [00:35:30] value,

Brett: [00:35:32] Kristen. Thanks very much. I've enjoyed it. And it's been a pleasure.

Keerstyn: [00:35:35] Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it.

View Details

On our podcast this week we have Dick Hannasch, IFC Professional Coach. Dick not only is known for his humor, but he is also known for getting down to the true problems that your company may face. Dick talks about his style of teaching by focusing on each individual and their needs but also gives good examples of what investing in each party, manager and employee, looks like and how to do it well. ADD LINK

Find Dick on his website!

Full transcription below (may contain typos...):
[00:00:00] Dick: [00:00:00] What got you here? Won't get you there. You need to recognize that every time that you're making a shift, a step up in level, that there are probably some things that you need to do a little bit differently.

Keerstyn: [00:00:10] welcome to the podcast stick. I am so excited that you're here today with us. Do you want to give us a brief background of how you got involved in your work and then what you do now?

Dick: [00:00:19] Sure. I've been with principal financial group in Des Moines, financial services for fortune 500 firm.

I've done training and development my entire career. And back in the late 1990s, I got asked to facilitate a coaching training class to teach coaching skills to other people. And then fast forward, about six or seven years, our company decided that we will offer internal coaching to people who are considered targeted talent.

And a few people got to start in on that coaching work and they decided the program was going so well that they said we should expand this and invite some more people to be coaches. And one of the people said we should invite Dick to do it because he's great at teaching these coaching skills.

And so a person came to me and [00:01:00] said, do you want to help with this? And I said, sure. And then after about two years of doing that, they decided they would send seven or eight of us to coaching training. And we've been doing coaching for individual leaders and also some individual contributors inside the company.

I think for, I think it's 14 years now, all in all. So it's just gotten farther along, more involved since that time.

Keerstyn: [00:01:24] Awesome. So that's quite a different way of doing it. We've often had just business coaches that have been external and then they walk into a company, but you are internal, although you do some external as well.

Correct? That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. So that's really interesting. So what made the company just like start realizing that they did need coaching

Dick: [00:01:42] within. What it really stemmed from was we knew that it's important to grow talent, talented leadership in the organization. And it had been proven for quite some time that men during help people quite a bit, but then also more recent research at that time.

It said, Hey, [00:02:00] coaching is getting to be more involved. It's a lot of people hiring executive coaches, leadership coaches. And so the company said, should we start on an investment in that way? And let's try it out and see how it goes. And so the first group of people that they invited to participate, I think it was only something like eight people all in all and people responded well to that.

And so they said we should probably offer this to more. So it's just become something that's been part of our leadership pipeline or there's I think at our peak, we had eight people doing internal coaching. Each of us taking between six and eight clients per year for an engagement of a three to six to nine months, depending on the individual and their need.

So that's kinda how it came to be. The company just realized this is a good investment. We can do it at a low cost, as long as we get the right people in here. And w if we can identify people who are willing to work with a coach.

Keerstyn: [00:02:50] Absolutely. Absolutely. So what was that first? That it's really interesting when they first initially started that.

What was the first. Group of people where [00:03:00] they like the top leaders in the industry where they, the middle managers,

Dick: [00:03:03] this was middle-management people really. So in a lot of companies that might be like assistant director or department director type role. So below a vice president or assistant vice president level, but everybody in a leadership position, we figured these are people who are still trying to emerge as leadership talent, trying to find their way along.

And so helping them get their feet under them a little bit more round out their leadership skills would be a helpful way to ensure that they're growing and being successful as they're doing it. And so gradually grow them into a larger leadership position.

Keerstyn: [00:03:37] Yeah, absolutely. And what were some of those skills that you were teaching?

Obviously there's so many skills that coaches can teach you today.

Dick: [00:03:44] That's an interesting part about our approach there too. There is some that all of us who were asked to come and do this training, where people who were had a training and development background in some ways. The performance and all of us had been in a leadership role in some way as well.

So starting with that training and [00:04:00] development background, I think we went into it with a mindset that we're going to try to problem solve and help fix a little bit, which is really the antithesis of coaching. We're going to be instructing But over time we figured out, it's really great to ask the questions and get them to discover their own answers.

And if we find out that they have a knowledge gap, a skill gap with our training and development background, we could offer ideas or we could offer to say, let's take off our coaching hat right now. Let's put our training hat or let's introduce a tool or a technique that you can try out with your people, with your team.

And so we wound up going that way. And the types of things that people would want help with might be how can I develop the talent that reports to me? How can I be a more strategic thinker? I got paid to be an executer. I got to my leadership role because I was good at completing projects and you're having an impact, but now I've got to lead people.

And how do I do that differently than what I've done? We've helped people with building their professional presence, helped them even figure out how do I deal with my. Boss or how do I prioritize my [00:05:00] work? So those are some of the problems, but all in all, what we really shifted to is how can we help you grow?

How can we help you become more effective as a leader in and build it based on your values, what you want to accomplish, fit with your personality type. So recognize where does your personality play as a strength for you and where does some aspect of your personality or your values possibly work against you?

So it's going to take you more. More mental energy more time, or you're going to have to be more deliberate about being disciplined and getting yourself to do it. For example, if I'm a, if I'm an executer, I love to execute. I want to get right down to the task right down to the project, but I've moved into a leadership role and now I've got to set and drive strategy for my team.

Then maybe I've got to figure out how do I make sure that I carve out that time? And do the necessary strategic planning. How do I carve out the time so that I tie people or get people connected to that connected to that strategy and then let them execute it so I can keep myself free of those moving parts.

[00:06:00] Keerstyn: [00:05:59] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What are some of those tools that help people figure out what their personality is at a very higher level, so to speak? We don't need

Dick: [00:06:08] to go. Yeah, we've used a few different assessments along the way. Right now what we're using primarily is the Hogan assessment. Hogan offers a personality assessment and you can get actually multiple varieties.

But the one that we use, we look at a person's values because you're. Values will drive your thinking and your thinking will drive your behavior, but things that you highly value you'll tend to do more of or support more, create a culture that lines up with that. We also look at what Hogan calls, the bright side traits.

So how do you approach people? How do you approach work to get things done and to have effective working relationships? And that's how you do things most days. And then Hogan also looks at what they call the dark side. So how do you respond under fatigue, pressure disengagement that might create some friction in your working relationships or might cause you to not carry out your projects?

So we've used that we've used the Gallup StrengthsFinder. We've used Myers-Briggs type indicator. We've also used 360 degree [00:07:00] feedback assessments as well, to get an idea of how are you showing up to the team around you? What do they need from you? What does your leader expect of you? Where might you need to shift along the way?

Keerstyn: [00:07:09] Yeah, absolutely. And how has that been helpful for the people taking these? Has it been really eyeopening for them? Has it, what does, what has that looked like

Dick: [00:07:17] for them? It really depends on the person, as you might be aware for, from thinking about the people that, there are some people who are really pretty clear on how I behave with others.

They know their strengths, they know their weaknesses, they pay attention to what they're doing, what impact they're having. Other people, they just keep pulling forward oblivious to what's going on. Or though they don't pause and think about, is this really helpful or is it not helpful? Their point of view might sometimes be if nobody's complaining, I'm going to just keep doing it.

So with the three 60 or with the Hogan, when people have been unaware, what we often find is they discover some things that they hadn't thought about before they stepped back and they say, Oh, I didn't realize that my behaviors are causing people to see me that way, or think of me that way. [00:08:00] Or they might get a result that says, Oh yeah, this is a part of my work that I struggle with.

This is really hard. I really try to avoid doing it. I'd rather not do it, those sorts of things. And that gives us some insight into, okay, is this an opportunity for us to possibly help you shift your perspective and see it? Maybe not as a burden, but finding an effective way to do it. And so can we introduce a tool, a different way of thinking at it, or is it something where you can even delegate to somebody who's on your team?

Lean on them, rely on them. Because to be an effective leader, you don't have to be great at everything, but if you can figure out how can I get the work done and engage the people around me to do that, that can help you be more effective as a leader as well?

Keerstyn: [00:08:39] Yeah, absolutely. So if, somewhere in order to say they're an employee, they're very solid in their job.

And then they get moved up to a manager because they're in that space. What would you tell them as some advice.

Dick: [00:08:51] Think it comes right out of Marshall Goldsmith's book. What got you here? Won't get you there. You need to recognize that every time that you're making a shift, a step up in level, [00:09:00] that there are probably some things that you need to do a little bit differently.

Sometimes it might be, he needed to do it to a higher degree of skill. More advanced line of thinking. Sometimes it might be there's some work that I need to stop doing. I need to get out of the weeds. I need to leave the execution to somebody else, or it might be, I need to build relationships in a different way.

And so just being aware of what's different, where I'm. Where I've just moved to, and that could be I've moved up in the organization. So I'm in a different level leadership role, or it could be across the business units, lines, business unit lines. Now I'm over in this business unit where I was in this other one.

And maybe that culture within that part of the organization is a little bit different, or maybe the leader of that business unit expects something different to me than my previous leader did. So trying to figure out where am I now and where do I need to get to.

Keerstyn: [00:09:49] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's very valuable in any part of the organization, too, not just coming from an employee standpoint to now being a manager from [00:10:00] being a mentor, to maybe being a director or senior director.

Absolutely. That's huge.

Dick: [00:10:06] Yeah, we do like to try to tie the coaching into those transition points for people as well, because when I've moved you into a new leadership role, new business unit, those are oftentimes when you feel like I'm maybe a little bit out of my element here, and I'm trying to find my way.

So maybe my confidence is down or maybe my competence doesn't feel like it used to. And so people, when they feel that moment where I'm not quite where I want to be, that causes a lot of people to be more open, to coaching and say, Oh, you're here to help me. You can help me with this. Great. Give me that.

It's the people who have been in a role for a long time, who feel like they've mastered it. They've got it down cold and everything. They're the ones that tend to be a little bit more reluctant to engage in coaching. Their philosophy might be, I know what I'm doing. I trust myself. I don't need additional feedback.

I don't need to waste my time with a coach. And we do run into that from time to time within the company where somebody says, this is a great idea, but I didn't [00:11:00] volunteer for it and I don't want to engage. And so we figured out how to quickly disengage from those and go work with the people who do want to work with us as coaches.

Keerstyn: [00:11:08] Yeah. What does your company say when people do say that when they're not

Dick: [00:11:12] interested? Our practice is. If you feel like you're not interested, you don't want to engage you as the coachee who is turning it down. You need to go have the conversation with your leader. We're all in HR, all of us.

We're coaches. We're not going to go have that conversation for you. And we will send that leader a note to say, and your person is chosen to disengage. There'll be talking with you about that. And that is it. And interestingly, I've not had a case where somebody came back later on and said, Oh, now my boss is going to make me go.

I think the bosses realized that if this person doesn't want to engage, that we're probably going to be throwing money away on the effort. And let's spend that time, that energy, that resource on somebody who welcomes that and who will respond to

Keerstyn: [00:11:56] it. Yeah, absolutely. That's key. [00:12:00] I think that people, when they're reluctant to learn and grow struggle to continue to make changes in their life, obviously For sure.

Dick: [00:12:09] I could share one quick anecdote as somebody in that vein. This was about two years ago. Somebody who got asked to take the Hogan assessment as part of the development process for her and then the Hogan assessment, and there was one particular trait that's called adjustment and adjustment is your ability to handle stress and pressure.

Which is a great thing to have in a leadership position, but what can happen is sometimes when we're high in that adjustment trait, we tend to think things are going to be fine. I know what I'm doing. And because of that, we might not ask other people for feedback, or if they offer us feedback, we might brush it off and say, it'll be fine.

I'm doing great. I don't really need this. Yeah, until they develop a reputation as being resistant to feedback. So there's one lady who took the assessment. We gave her feedback reports to review. Before we talked about the [00:13:00] results and asked her, was there anything in your feedback that caused you concern?

And she said, yeah. And this one report, there's a line here that says I might be resistant to feedback. I'm not resistant to feedback. I said, okay. So tell me about a time when you've asked for feedback. She said just last week I finished a project okay. What did you ask him? She said, I asked them, what did you like about what I did on this project?

And there's a little pause and I'm waiting. Is there something more here? And she doesn't offer anything more. And I said, so anything else you asked him? She goes, no. And I said, did you ever think to ask them about what you could do differently to be even better? She said, no. I would never ask that.

And then her eyes got wide and she said, Oh, now I see. Yeah. I thought I always interested in feedback. I'm just interested in praise. And so sometimes we run into those leaders. They just want that praise, that positive stroke. Hey, you did a good job. Keep it up. That sort of thing. But it's the ones who have more of the mindset to say, even if it was good, even if it was good, how could it be better?

[00:14:00] What can I do individually to be a better leader of my team produce better business results. Those are the people that we'd love to work with because they're going to sell fueling. And all we have to do is show up and ask them questions and they'll find their way with a little bit of help from the questioning.

Keerstyn: [00:14:14] Absolutely. That's a great story, especially with the eyeopening understanding of, Oh, I'm not actually looking for feedback, even though I did think I was questioning could be definitely misconstrued and people's head of Oh That's not feedback. That's not appropriate feedback. It's feedback, both good and bad.

That's one thing that we always remember.

Dick: [00:14:36] Yeah. And the question is, does it offer you an opportunity to see things from a different perspective? And if that feedback is valuable, then the question becomes. What are you willing to do with it? Are you going to try to change your behavior? Are you going to continue the way that you've been?

And we advise people, you don't need to change all your behaviors. You don't need to go from a zero to, I want a hundred or 100 from a zero, but what we try to help you do is figure out what are those [00:15:00] situations, where if I show up and behave a little bit differently, I get a little bit better results.

Yeah. So as a leader, I might need to show up sometimes and be more vocal about some things. Sometimes I might need to show up and I might need to be a better listener. Sometimes I might like to focus on my work and not so much on the people relationships, but sometimes I need to figure out who maybe I need to invest some more time in the relationships and get out of my office, get out of my cuber, get in front of some people a little bit more.

So we look for those opportunities to increase that awareness on where do you, where would you benefit from being more effective and how can we get you there?

Keerstyn: [00:15:32] Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a very a good key point there in terms of understanding more about yourself, but then also what you could improve on.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So I thought about something during that, which might be a little, it might be a little off the tune, but have so coaching the coach, how do you do that with them or organizations that you coach here, leaders to be coaches for their team? What does that look like?

[00:16:00] Dick: [00:16:02] I'm going to ask you to rephrase the question. I think I got it, but I'm not quite sure if I'm picking up on the bit that you want to go. I

Keerstyn: [00:16:06] dunno. So how basically, how do you teach your leaders to be coaches for their teams so that they can coach their employees as well?

Dick: [00:16:16] Right internally, we offer a class that we call coaching, bringing out the best in others and in that class.

And it's a space of about 10 hours spread out over five weeks. We introduce them to a coaching model that we developed. It's a very simplified model. Actually, if you go out to coach Inc com, coach Inc is the organization that provided the coaching training does here at principal. And we liked their model, found it very effective, and we realized, Ooh, this is great for us.

We'd like to teach some of these skills, help people with that. And we also looked at the bottle, it said it had too many parts for managers, tongue in cheek. We said, we need to dumb it down a little bit, make it simpler. And so we did that. And so in the training class, what we aim to do is teach those leaders some simple shifts in their mindset [00:17:00] and introduce a simple tool, being our coaching model and a set of coaching questions.

And then we'd try to help them build their skills on the mindset. We'd try to help them understand how do I not be a fixer. If somebody comes to me with an issue, a concern, something like that, how do I ask questions to calm them down, help them get their thoughts together and figure out what do they need to get from this conversation here.

Then after we identify and we call it, clarify the focus after we help them clarify the focus of what they want to get from the conversation, then we help the leaders make their mindset shift on how do I not just jump in and give them the answer. I could tell them how to do this thing, how to fix it right away.

Sometimes the leaders have an approach, right? I say did you try a, did you try B, did you try C? So they go through a checklist or a punch list of things and we teach them, how do you ask questions to find out what have you tried? What have you thought about trying? What have you seen other people do?

Where have you done this in the past? So really take the coaching approach and use some simple questions to open up that conversation. [00:18:00] Because very often what happens then is that person that you're trying to coach recognizes. Oh, there's some additional things that I think might work. And maybe they don't need a fix from the leader.

And then leaders often fall down on the last part. And that's the shift into the accountability part. So after people generate four or five ideas of what they could do, we try to help leaders figure out how do I shift into saying, okay, out of all these things you could do, what is most appealing to you?

What are you going to do? When are you going to do it? What help do you need for me along the way or from somebody else? And when will we talk again? And so we teach that to the leaders. We give them two hours in class. We practice a skill. Everybody takes a turn as a coach or coachee or an observer or multiple times as an observer.

And we send them out after each class session and say, go back to the job, try these things out. If you've not been good at clarifying the focus, work on asking those questions to clarify the focus. If you've been too quick to fix work on those aspects of exploring by asking more questions, if you've not been having the [00:19:00] accountability conversations, work on adding those questions to what you do.

And we tell people grout, try it out. Come back next week. We'll talk about how you did and leaders are amazed at how much better they get just in the space of five weeks. And we hear a lot of things like, Hey, I did it with one of my direct reports. I used it on a project that I'm on. And with the whole project team, of course, we also get the people say, Hey, I did this with my spouse or used it on my kids.

But people find that if I make small changes in my behaviors, in my conversations, That I can get a much better result and I don't have to fix everything for everybody. I wind up with people who are more empowered, more capable, which means my team can perform at a higher level. And I don't have to do as much heavy lifting myself as a leader.

Keerstyn: [00:19:43] Yeah, absolutely. You can use that in any aspect, really in terms of what you're teaching these leaders to do and how to change their personality, but then also change their. Even their language.

Dick: [00:19:55] Yeah. We've had people who are agile scrum team leaders come through the training and they find it [00:20:00] immensely helpful for their scrum discussions.

We've had individual contributors come through who say I'm on a project team, but the project struggles. And they say, Oh, and introduced some of these questions. Let's start using that. The quality of our project team member. Project team meetings, the outcomes for our meetings improved immensely just by bringing some more coaching into it.

So we've been teaching this class now for 10 years. And so we've got, I don't know if it's several hundred coaching advocates out there. They're not all like ACC master certified coaches or anything like that, but they coach enough better that it makes a difference in their work area.

Keerstyn: [00:20:33] Yeah, absolutely.

That's so valuable, especially just learning those few cute key things in order to be able to change and just make the conversation slightly different, that you get better outcomes and better results and faster results for that matter. Yeah.

Dick: [00:20:49] Yeah. Awesome. We have some leaders who say, I want to come back through the class again.

I went through it three or four years ago, but I feel like there's so much more to learn and me say, if you want to come back, you're welcome to come back. [00:21:00] Ah,

Keerstyn: [00:21:00] that's so good too, especially to have that reinforcement to grow them on a deeper level. They already know the concepts, but now they can even dive deeper.

That's really valuable.

Dick: [00:21:10] And naturally we got some good evidence of the success of our program, too. We started off, we did the usual kind of smile sheet at the end of the class, but asking people, did you learn something that you can apply back in your workplace and have you been applying it and seeing results?

So we started seeing some of that already. Which is really a soft measure. But after we had done the class for her, I think four or five years, what we did was we looked internally around we looked at our annual employee opinion survey results, and we have an employee engagement index, which looks at things like does my leader have conversations with me about my development as my leader helped me learn and grow.

Things in that sort of vein. And we found across the organization that the departments where the leaders came through our coaching skills training program scored at a significantly statistically significant higher level than leaders in the [00:22:00] departments who didn't come through the training. Wow.

And we can't say it's all definitely tied to coaching, but there was enough evidence in there to say something is going on in these areas that the leaders are doing something different to engage with their people, they're getting a better result. And so that, that was really a very gratifying thing for us.

And so we've continued to offer the class since that time.

Keerstyn: [00:22:22] Yeah, absolutely. That's huge. A huge for your organization, but then also huge for you guys who are teaching it and implementing it into the organization. That's powerful for sure.

no: [00:22:32] Yeah. Yeah.

Dick: [00:22:34] Yeah. It's a ripple effect thing. You don't know where it stops.

But it is very gratifying to say somebody came away saying, I feel so much more competent and confident as a leader. And then to have that show up in a evaluation results or employee opinion, survey results from somebody that we don't get to talk to, we don't get to see them face to face, but we know that their leaders are getting the benefit and they're, the employees are of giving their testimony to say, yeah, we're seeing something different, something better [00:23:00] here than we used to see.

Keerstyn: [00:23:01] Absolutely. Absolutely. That's awesome. Derek, if people want to work with you, obviously, probably not internally, where can they contact you or get

Dick: [00:23:12] ahold of you? They could certainly find me on LinkedIn. So I'm guessing that this podcast will have my name out there in some way, shape or form, so they could go through that way.

Also I have my own company that I operate called aware and willing.com, so aware and willing.com. And is spelled out as a and D rather than as a ampersand. So you could use that to contact me. There's a form to fill out. You can send that way, but I'd be happy to share. What I know about, here's how we designed our program.

If you want to talk about coaching for you, if you want to talk about anything related to the assessments that we've used, anything in that vein, I'm happy to give you my time where I can.

Keerstyn: [00:23:51] Absolutely. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been really fun. All right, you're welcome.

View Details

This week on our podcast we have Kevin Suboski. Kevin talks about how to create a true leadership team, and it is not what you might think a leadership team looks like. Kevin goes in depth on why a group of managers aren’t just a leadership team, and that there are more traits that we often overlook. Kevin shares how groups of managers often struggle to work together simply because they often have similar personalities. When we create leadership teams that look different through personalities, we find that these teams are more creative, communicate better, and bring more ideas to the table. Click here to hear more about what diverse leadership teams look like from Kevin.

Find Kevin on his website!

Full transcription below (may contain typos...):
Kevin: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] So I think it's more effective to think about. Rather than being one or the other, that you have roles where in those roles you have management moves and leadership moves. There's typically any role where you have authority where you're specific, you're taking accountability for some piece of the organization.

Keerstyn: [00:00:25] Okay. Welcome to the podcast, Kevin. We are so excited to have you here today. Do you want to give us a brief intro of how you got involved in your work and what you do now?

Kevin: [00:00:35] Brief intro. Sure. I'll try to keep it brief. So I started my career in it and I met in my twenties, a venture capitalist. And heard what he did, helping businesses strategically. And I just really fell in love with that idea, really being flying it 50,000 feet with business owners and helping them design their business.

And. [00:01:00] Strategy. And so I began my lifelong push to get to be so that I could do that kind of work. And took me through lots of twists and turns. I started a business in 1994 to, to do it. And so I really. I really took that on as an opportunity to learn, to be a CEO my best. And so I studied in California with an organization called about entrepreneurship innovation and leadership and had coaches for nine years and just really studied on how to be a great CEO and just found that I.

Was less excited about it than I was about business. And so about 14 years ago, I left that business and started focusing on helping entrepreneurs. And so that's the brief answer. I was a brief [00:02:00] enough,

Keerstyn: [00:02:00] that's brief enough. That works. So I guess what were some of those things that led you to want to become a CEO and then where were some of those?

I guess. Expectations that weren't met when you were in that position, but what did that mean when I

was

Kevin: [00:02:16] in the position with my company? Yes. Yeah. So what are some of the things? I think people who are entrepreneurs, there's a certain kind of personality type and. I, creative, visionary a little add, I think get bored easily, all these sorts of characteristics.

I think if you meet an entrepreneur, there's a certain kind of person. And I just found that I loved that kind of person and love being around them. And I couldn't say the same thing about mid-level it managers, I just. And, why do people like one kind of person over another? I don't know.

I just found [00:03:00] that the work that they were doing, the authenticity of entrepreneurs, the raw passion, the dedication to, in my experience, generally, entrepreneurs are really trying to solve some problem in the world. And I love that and I love the integrity of that and authenticity. And so for me, it was much more about designing my life and my work to be more satisfying.

And and so I think the thing that I discovered along the way was just people I want to hang out with and be of service to

Keerstyn: [00:03:36] yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So now you're an EOS implementer. Do you want to explain EOS a bit and just give a brief background and understand what that.

Kevin: [00:03:48] Yeah.

So I want to explain that in the context of how I got involved with EOS, because I have always been much more interested in fundamental distinctions ways of [00:04:00] thinking about, I was always curious, when you look at one leader compared to another, and one of them is more successful, it's how did they think?

What did they what's going on in their mind? And I was always interested in the mental models. Great leaders had. And so how they think. And so that's why I went down the path that I did in terms of studying biology, especially in neurology philosophy and Linda linguistics, studying the fundamentals of human behavior and innovation, entrepreneurship, and leadership.

And so in studying that, it became really potent for me and my business. And that's the kind of, that's the stuff that to this day makes the difference in. And the stuff that I love and what I found was a lot of people. When I would go and talk to them about the things that I'd learned, they'd say that's great, Kevin, those are great ideas, but right.

My hair's on fire. I got stuff to do. Tell me what to do tomorrow. And so what I found was people really struggling with the fundamental blocking and tackling of [00:05:00] business. And that, that's what they really needed help with today. And then as soon as they put the fires out, then we can talk about being great.

But for now we've got to get things going. So EOS entrepreneurial operating system is a set of tools and practices to help people. Who are maybe great at the work that they do, but aren't great at business. Don't have the background, the training, the expertise to run a business, and EOS does a set of principles, tools, and tactics.

It says, just do these things and you'll run your business. Okay.

Keerstyn: [00:05:31] Yeah. So I heard you say that you use science and philosophy and you studied all of those things, but clients were coming to you saying we need to fight these fires now.

Not necessarily. Yeah. In the future. How do you now fight those fires in the moment, but then also apply these higher level things of EOS in the

Kevin: [00:05:51] process. Gotcha. Okay. I know that to be successful as a leader you have to know where you're going. And so I know that [00:06:00] from a sort of fundamental being human kind of perspective, where we are meaning machines we think about the future, what we want to accomplish, and we do that through language. And so the way this shows up in businesses, you have to have a vision for where you're going.

And the problem is people don't necessarily know what that means or how to do it. So with EOS, there's a very specific tool called the vision traction organizer that says just let's break this down for. So forget about these, talking about narrative and linguistics, all that. Thanks, Kevin.

That's really cool. And all, what is my core values? What am I? What's my core focus. What's my ten-year target. Break it down into very understandable set of questions that if you answer those questions, then you will have a vision and you will create an image of the future that will at a very fundamental level mobilize you and to create a future.

And so when I work with people, a lot of what I'm looking at [00:07:00] is if they're if they're trying to succeed in business, I'm going to pay attention to. W why it isn't working for them. And so they're going to look at it and say, it might be I'm I don't have finance, I can't hire a person, whatever.

And I'm going to look at what are they thinking are missing? And so if somebody does, isn't passionate about their work. A lot of times that comes from because they don't know where they want to go in the future. And so I'm going to work with them laying out an image of the future. That is consistent with who they are and that the market will want.

And so by using the tools of Vos, I'm getting them in alignment with themselves in the marketplace, but doing it with a very simple set of tools that they don't have to study for 12 years. Like I did not understand these things. Does that make

Keerstyn: [00:07:49] sense? Yeah, absolutely. Do you have a story about how that has been successfully implemented in an organization that you've worked

Kevin: [00:07:56] with?

So I had, I worked with a [00:08:00] plumbing company that when I was started out with the director, he was trying to figure out what job to take next, because he figured that company wasn't going to be around anymore soon. And so I started working with them and we laid out this image of the future.

And then EOS also talks about how roles and responsibilities through an accountability chart who does what and where. And so we started working on these very fundamental concepts, but in very practical, pragmatic steps that everybody could get an implement and work on. To the point where, when I, when we got to the point where we were complete, a couple of years later, he was actually spending about a third of his time on his boat and saga talk in the Caribbean and [00:09:00] really trying to figure out what to do with his free time, because the business was running so well.

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. I want to be on the boat with them. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:09:12] that's a shift. So obviously then they were planning out how did they work with them? Did they tell their employees everything that was going on? What was the transparency level? Obviously the business was working really well, but what made it so that it was working extremely well in that

system?

Kevin: [00:09:27] I don't think it ever comes down to one thing. So EOS is a system, that's the entrepreneurial operating system. So there's lots of pieces to it and all the pieces contribute and work in concert to change the culture of the organization to change the vision so that everybody knows where you're going and how you're going to get there and really making them just more healthy, functional, cohesive as a team.

So for instance, They had a hard time. Their biggest challenge is that they couldn't hire people. They didn't, [00:10:00] they had a hard time finding, the trades is really tough right now. And one of the things we work on is core values. And it's seems like in a theory, all kinds of concept and it is, but it has very practical, pragmatic consequences in so far as it gets everybody in alignment about who they are.

And so then when they start talking to people, the best people are attracted to a great culture. And so when they start talking to their recruiting, After they'd really resolved a lot of their core values. They were able to recruit better people. They were able to design a program because they were much better at dealing with resolving issues.

They developed a training program to the point now where they have a waiting list of potential clients. So on. So [00:11:00] having that vision. Getting everybody clear on what their role is in executing that vision, coming up with crisp goals and then reflecting on whether you accomplished them and then really moving the culture forward.

So it's, it is a simple set of tools within EOS, but they all do work in concert. And so sometimes it is, if you take any one of them away, it may not come crashing down, but it is going to make it less effective. All of those pieces before I w I had 30 people in my company and I was pretty good about using a lot of effective strategies for running your business, but there were a few key things that I didn't do.

And in reflection, if I'd have had the tools of Vos at the time, things would have gone radically different for me, even though I did. 70% of that stuff. Very well. I missed a couple of key points. Yeah. That was [00:12:00] the whole system. Sadly, I can't give, I can't break it down. There's no silver bullet part of what we tell

Keerstyn: [00:12:04] people.

Absolutely. Absolutely. What were some of those key things that you struggled with and were missing and that EOS provided you? Or

Kevin: [00:12:14] after the fact? Yeah. Great question. I work with the leadership teams of organizations. And I asked them to invite the leadership team. And often it's rare that I find an organization has what I consider a leadership team.

What they have is a bunch of managers and typically managers and leaders don't really work well together. It's just a nature of how we are, we're all going, we've all got her, very ambitious and driven and we've got our ideas how to do things. And so often they don't work well together.

And I had that in my organization. I had managers and I would work with them and I was a facilitative manager. I was very keeping people informed. They had a part of all the decisions, but they didn't really [00:13:00] work together as a team. We all worked as strong, powerful individuals coming together.

What I find over time with the tools and the implementation process as I implement it, that over time that those managers and the CEO and COO, which we call visionary and integrator really become a cohesive, highly functioning team. And that has a profound impact on the organization. And I think if I look back at where I was, I didn't have that great leadership team.

And as part of that, I talked about a visionary and integrator. We are really confused about the function between the CEO and COO that those roles are really. Often poorly executed, defined, and executed. So [00:14:00] if you're the president, you've got a vice president, the way those two people work together. Is often not very effective.

And that was the case in my organization. I worked at it. I had coaches, I had people I had, I was the CEO. I had a COO, but if I'd have known, then if I'd have known about visionary and integrator and how that, and that distinction and how those work together, those are the two things that really would have made a huge difference and would have gone really differently for me.

Keerstyn: [00:14:31] Yeah, absolutely. So you've mentioned during that that managers and leaders don't work well together. Do you want to explain that further and explain what the differences between a manager and a leader and why they don't work well together?

Kevin: [00:14:45] Yeah so I will take a stab at giving you my interpretation as to why would I say.

It's true. What I would say is I'm not saying that because of some theoretical notion, I'm just saying that from [00:15:00] experience when you get a bunch of leaders together, it's often a fight, it's very and the reality is managers and leaders. So the distinction I make between manager and leader, Is a manager controls things, a leader influences people.

And so a manager is much more of a control moving arms and legs of people, whereas a leader as much more heart and soul creating context for people to move into. Regardless of that, someone that's going to be in a role of a manager leader typically are very strong-willed people. They have a perspective and.

If someone else has a different perspective, they're willing to fight for their agenda. And so that's all beautiful as those are, that's a drive that's required for the organization. And the question is, how do you get all of that energy, which you've got multiple [00:16:00] managers in your organization?

How do you get all of that energy and sync and moving forward without having to be this, person is traffic cop that. Yeah. Navigates all the breakdowns and is puts out the fires where they work together. Yeah. Did I answer your question?

Keerstyn: [00:16:18] Yeah, I guess then how, if someone's hearing this and are saying I'm really a manager and I control situations and they just don't know how to get out of it though.

What would you say to that? How could they become a leader instead of a manager?

Kevin: [00:16:31] So I think it's more effective to think about. Rather than being one or the other, that you have roles where in those roles you have management moves and leadership moves. There's typically any role where you have authority where you're specific, you're taking accountability for some piece of the organization.

You're going to be doing both of those. [00:17:00] I think it's useful to recognize where your strengths and weaknesses are. I've never been a strong manager. I've just, but, and I've put all of my time and energy into leadership. And management is about wrestling something to the ground, so to speak, making something happen in spite of all the energies of the universe conspiring against you to accomplish that leadership is much more about inventing a possible future that compels and mobilizes people to act to produce that independently of your management.

So if you're really great at leadership, you really have to do very little managements. And that's part of why I'm, I've been focusing on leadership, perhaps I'm a little. Lazy. I don't really want to do all of that work. So if I just, if I'm really good at painting a picture of a beautiful future, [00:18:00] that's compelling for the people in my organization where they want to produce that future.

And then I give them the tools and the support and the encouragement and help them along the way, and then just get out of their way magic happens, and so to me then that's. So how do you be a great leader? If you want to be a great manager, you study physics and mathematics and material science.

So to speak. If you want to be a great leader, you study philosophy religion biology, you understand the stuff of the heart and soul of people. What makes people, cause if you're going to come up with a vision, that's going to compel people autonomously, then you have to understand what drives people and not, force is a pretty potent driver, but it's exhausting.

It's much easier, love. And so one of the best things I did in my [00:19:00] organization, Is to spend. I spent time with every person in the organization. My job was to understand their ambition. What did they want to accomplish in life? And usually people had a very weak story about that. And if you talk to people, what do you want to accomplish in life?

We all are a little chagrined with how thin our story is about the future that we want to create. And especially, the younger you are, the less likely it is that you have some crystal clear vision of what's possible. You've just come out of college. You've been in the workforce for awhile.

What can you do Kirsten? You don't know yet, whereas someone that's gone before, you can look at the raw material that you are and say, you know what, you'd be great at. You have inclinations, you have desires, you have a super power, there's stuff that you're brilliant at or stuff that you love to do.

And so if you had [00:20:00] somebody that was like working with you saying, what you could do, I've been watching you and you could do this thing and have it. And I just saw this over and over again where I would bring this to people. Wow. You think I could do that? Oh my God. That would be amazing.

If I could do that. I'd say absolutely. You can do that and I'm going to help you get there. And then from then on I've got them in what my old teacher called a wrist lock because anytime I want them to move in a direction, all I have to do is say, Hey, remember how you wanted this in your future?

The thing that you're doing right now is not going to help you get there. If you do these things differently, it's going to help you get there. It's much more potent than if I come to you and I say, look, the stuff you're doing, doesn't serve. Yeah. That's not very potent. If I come to you and I say, look, the stuff you're doing, doesn't serve you people.

It's a a level of. Impact in people's [00:21:00] lives. It's a level of influence on how people behave. That is the return on investment of that time is profound. And then what you do is you build allegiance and Alliance with people who are like, they can't get that from anyone else who, someone that knows them that know something about the world.

But takes the time and paints a picture of the future that works for them and then facilitates the path for them to get there. Oh my God. Who would leave that? And so you get someone who's dedicated anyway. I could go on that. That's it?

Keerstyn: [00:21:35] No, that's awesome. I'm really glad that you dove into that because I completely agree with you when young people are allowed to hear.

Wow. You're really good at XYZ. You should think about doing this. It's much more impactful than throwing a dart at the wall, and hopefully that's where you land. Yeah. And I also agree with you in terms of leadership versus managing leadership is looking at the future [00:22:00] and being excited about something and investing in people as well.

I did have a question about, or with Lou, for you about that. So what are some of the things that you're telling leaders right now during this pandemic during quite a few different shifts in society? What are you saying to them?

Kevin: [00:22:20] Oh, okay, great. Yeah. So you might expect, I'm pretty deep into this right now.

And so this is going to take how much time do we have Kiersten?

Keerstyn: [00:22:29] You can take as

Kevin: [00:22:29] long as you want. So I'm going to do a little bit of a deep dive for you and to, because I think it's important. One of the most important things that I learned in my education and what I studied biology and how people are, is the distinction of mood, which the way that I learned it as much, much deeper and more in a much richer set of distinctions than, Hey, are you in a good mood or a bad mood?

A mood is a biological background helmets. [00:23:00] It's a long-term ungrounded assessment to future situations. So if I if you watch people, you can see the mood that has them, we don't have a mood has us and the mood that you're in dictates the actions that are available to you. So if so panic, so despair is the mood that says bad things are going to happen.

To me, panic is the mood that says bad things are gonna happen to me soon. And so if you're in a mood of panic, your physically, your peripheral vision shrinks your capacity to think in long horizons of time, your capacity to care for another human being, to be empathetic, to feel love. And joy is diminished.

You. And so if I'm going to go talk to a client where we have to do a strategic plan where they're trying to figure out, their one to 10 year plan, I know that they are physically incapable of doing the work because of the mood that they're in. [00:24:00] And so the first thing that I have to do with them is to work on their mood.

So what I see is the whole world is. Is thrown into a mood right now. We are challenged to be in an effective mood and and to me it's life or death situation to a certain degree to become effective, to become more effective at mood management. The reality is we're going to get through this.

There is going to be something past this. And life is going to be great and good. And a lot of these challenges are going to go away. And if we spend the next 18 months living in fear and uncertainty and all the moods that come along with that, then the kind of work that we're going to do in that time is going to be not very good.

And We're working on shifting your mood and mood of passion is the interpretation [00:25:00] that the things that I'm working on are going to produce a great future for myself. And so when you meet people, you can tell that they're in a mood of passion. Passion is a very productive mood. It's very attractive people like to be around that.

And so the question is how do you move from being in a mood of despair into a mood of passion? That to me is huge right now. And that's, and that paying attention to your mood, caring for your mood, doing all those things, to protect your biology and your your spirituality, so to speak is extremely important.

The other thing I would say is it's an, a really important time to anticipate changes in your market. And being prepared and doing the work now to pivot, there are a lot of people that are slowed down right now that can anticipate, at some point they're going to come out of this, but it's going to be a different world in some way.

And there are [00:26:00] going to be people who take advantage of new opportunities. If, and what I see as a lot of people that are being that are in response mode that are coping. That are dealing with the reality that they have. And I think that you need to take 20% of your planning time and anticipate what's that what's the territory to take.

Where are the opportunities in your field? How can you pivot your business? To not only take care of those opportunities too, but to make it fit who you are better. A lot of people are in businesses that they don't love serving people that they don't really care that much about doing things that don't satisfy them.

This is a beautiful time to pivot your business, move it more towards where your heart wants you to be shifted to where your super powers are. Even though people think it's a little weird, whatever that is. Figure out what you want to do, what lights you up and figure out how you can change your business to do more of that.

[00:27:00] So those are the two things that I'm thinking about and talking to people how's that work for you.

Keerstyn: [00:27:06] I'm glad that you said that, and I'm glad that you. At that at the very end said that we should be shifting our businesses to things that we love during this time, because oftentimes people are not loving their job.

They're not happy in their position or they're happy. There's parts of it. That's I don't want to be here to do this today. But yeah. And then also having that mode of passion about the certain a certain job. That's awesome. I'm so glad that you said that took a deep dive into that was really inspiring and helpful to hear, especially during this time of when you're in additions and unknowns.

Kevin: [00:27:43] So I think, we are in a very dangerous time. That to me is beautiful. There are all these, we are in a. There's a lot, that's going to change and there's going to be a lot of really good things that come out of this. And if we pay attention to that, recognize that, how can we steer towards [00:28:00] that if you're not?

So if you want to drive your business towards what you love, can you imagine how hard it is to do that? To have the thought processes, to be able to be biologically able to have those thought processes, if you're fearful and negative emotions stuck in a mood of despair. It's it's impossible to do that.

So those things, two things are that's required. If you're going to pivot your business towards something you love and take opportunity, you can't do it in an ineffective mood.

Keerstyn: [00:28:29] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I just wrote down positive mood equals positive change. Cause I, I think that's,

Kevin: [00:28:38] yeah, I meant I'm right in the middle of creating a couple of courses on this.

So I'm moving part of what I'm doing is taking this opportunity to put some of my work on digital. And so a lot, I had a, I had an in-person course for solo preneurs, helping them do these sorts of things. And so I'm not able [00:29:00] to, I have not been able to meet with my groups, peer groups of solo preneurs. So I've been creating an online virtual version of that.

And so I'm deep in the, so the content creation stage of that. So I'm glad you asked me that's been having fun with it.

Keerstyn: [00:29:17] Absolutely. So obviously they can look at your online courses once they're available, but where else can they find you?

Kevin: [00:29:23] So I have two, two websites because I have two businesses.

And so as I am an EOS implementer and for those, my clients are 10 to have 10 people, that 250 people. And that business is sebaski.com. So it's www.sebaski.com. You can reach me on email@kevinatsebaski.com. That's S U B O S K. I. I also work with solo preneurs and with solo preneurs, I do use the tools of EOS, but it's much more about [00:30:00] consulting with them, advising them, coaching them on how to to design their business in a way that's going to be effective.

And that company is called fastest route. So you can reach, find that at www dot fastest, route one word.ceo. It's not com it's that CEO. .

Keerstyn: [00:30:19] Awesome. Thank you for doing that. I'm really glad that we got to dive in to us and also moods and changes and the workforce, especially today, I'm in this weird changing ever-changing time.

Awesome. Do you have any parting words before we leave today?

Kevin: [00:30:36] Do I have any parting words? I should probably have some parting words should you're sending these parallels in party or so I do want to, I do want to put an emphasis on something. When I work with clients, I see that people are dedicated to. Doing something right. Or how an MBA would tell you to do [00:31:00] it.

I wouldn't just encourage people to really take the time to figure out what you love. What are you passionate about? If you can figure out how to make your business. Fit your passion, the things that matter most to you in the world, serving the people that you love, the most, doing the things that feel good to you.

When you do them, it may take a little while for you to figure out how to make money doing that. But eventually you'll make a lot more money. You'll live a much better life and you'll make a much better impact in the world. And I think that we just don't give ourselves permission to do that. And I just want to give everybody permission and make a passionate plea to please take the time.

Look at who you are, look at what you love. Look at where your heart is sending you. We silence that stuff all the time. We say, why are you [00:32:00] doing that? You don't deserve that. It doesn't matter. Anyway, suck it up. Be a good soldier, all that kind of stuff. And it's yeah, there's some part of that.

That's true. But take some time and find your passions. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That sounds great.

Keerstyn: [00:32:17] Yes, that's awesome. Thank you for saying that. Awesome. Thank you Kevin, for joining us on the podcast today, it was a pleasure to have this conversation and learn more about what you do.

Kevin: [00:32:28] Thank you.

It's been a delight. Thanks Kiersten. I appreciate the opportunity.

Keerstyn: [00:32:32] Absolutely.

View Details

This week we have Tim Lansford, a business coach dedicated to helping people finding their bottom line expectations and then going from there. In business, we often have different expectations circling around the office. For example, take a look at people's expectations about going back to the office post-covid, they are all over the place. Tim explains how he works his clients through getting on the same page with their expectations and moving from there. It can be hard, but also rewarding when your team starts to collaborate through better communication.

Find Tim on:
Linkedin
His website

Full transcription below (may contain typos...):
[00:00:00] Tim: [00:00:00] They don't know where to start, and that's where we come in and help them establish a baseline and then work Program through them where they can increase whatever the different problem or, morale to, to, bad attitudes to whatever's going on in their thing.

Keerstyn: [00:00:13] Welcome to the podcast, Tim. We are so excited to have you here today. Do you want to give us a brief intro and what you do, how you got involved in your work and help, who you helped serve

Tim: [00:00:24] now?

Not a problem. I would love to thanks for having me on today. A little bit about me. I've got a pretty diverse background. Currently I have three companies. I have a webinar and training company where it was a seminar company. It's I call it more webinar company nowadays for the pandemic on, on, but it is an online training. It is a full service training and development company. A lot of my coaching clients and stuff come out of that full service training company through the seminars and webinars that I do. That's where I get a lot of my clients. And through, through trainings and through dealing with my computer consultant company.

So all of that sort of [00:01:00] wrapped into one company. And then I have actually another couple of companies that don't fit anywhere close to that. I have a real estate company, small little boutique real estate company. And then I'm also having a construction company as well. Very diverse people don't think that the construction company and the online training company really good Robin, they always scratch their head when they hear that.

But that's just my three companies got a very diverse background. You name an industry I've pretty much been in it. And over the last 30 years from, I had a small corporate career, I've worked for myself for about 25 years now. And other than that I'd like to have fun and enjoy and walks on the beach and all that good stuff.

So anywhere I'm nowhere close to the beach.

Keerstyn: [00:01:40] Absolutely. So I guess, could you tell us a bit more about that training and development company? What are some of the key things that you discussed during different webinars or seminars for that matter? What does the training, what kind of development are you specifically focusing on those types of things?

Tim: [00:01:57] Yeah, I do quite a bit. I do about 30 different [00:02:00] subjects actually. So it's all wrapped around. One of my companies is called blast seminars, it's business leadership and sales training. So it covers the full gamut of business from all the way into a management training management consulting marketing.

I go down through sales training. Go through all the leadership aspects we would get into personalities, the difficult people, all the, the seminars are out there in the world. We pretty much do all of them. Problem solving you name it. We we put a spin on it in our own way and take care of it.

Keerstyn: [00:02:32] Yeah, that's interesting. So during this weird COVID-19 time pandemic, how has your training shifted through that opposite? I've heard a lot of people are either having a really good experience or not necessarily great one. But what have you guys been doing to help. Move that forward and get people to the right

Tim: [00:02:51] spots.

Technically we I've had a great time with it. I've enjoyed it. To the point where I've got small kids, I've got five-year-old twins and a boy and [00:03:00] girl. So I love it for him. Cause you know I try to schedule my thing where I'd be out on the road two, three days a week on the beginning of the week and maybe two, three days on the end of next week.

So I could spend a lot of time with them and then concentrate on some of my other companies as well. But you know that at this point, where I can just do my. My online trainings and here in my home studio and then walk back out and, lightsaber battle with my kid during a 10 minute break and eat lunch with them.

That's a, that's an awesome thing for me from that standpoint. And I'm just getting a lot done. I, I. I, it's a weird time and that we are we're at with all the pandemic, but for me, it's been awesome. I've been when going through the process of rebranding getting a lot of the stuff done that I did not have the time to do it.

Regrouping, getting organized. Getting a lot of the house projects done, of course, right through my wife or, and all this stuff that she wants me to do, but it's been a great time for business, and I loved it. I was in the process of ramping up more on the online stuff, when the pandemic came about.

So I had a lot of the equipment, a lot of the. My studio set up. [00:04:00] So it was just a natural transition to me to really throw me into it. There's still a lot of learning curves, a lot of stuff I learned in research every day, but I find it I'm finding it awesome right now. So yeah, I'm all about it. So I'm doing, anywhere from three to four webinars online, full day webinars every week.

And it's, I'm staying really busy.

Keerstyn: [00:04:19] Yeah. So those webinars, do you take people through a different topics in them? What are some of

Tim: [00:04:25] those topics? Yeah, it just depends on the client that I'm doing. They go through a catalog or something for what they want to do. And we do from, mom and pop companies.

I do a lot of government training, a lot of military training, a lot of government entities all the way through, fortune 500 companies. You name it. It's not one distinct market. That we really concentrate on it from the training aspect. The consulting and stuff is a little bit, I can have a lot of ties into the construction industry and the national association of home builders and stuff.

So I get a lot of consulting in the construction industry, which ties into a lot of my coaching clients, a lot [00:05:00] of my marketing clients and but you'd be surprised a lot of the coaching clients come from a lot of my training seminars, which has government and Just regular, business, through HR managers and stuff like that, they have a need where they have a problem, problem employee that they want to do some correction on or put them through a course.

And that's where we do it.

Keerstyn: [00:05:17] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So to talk a bit more about the coaching aspect of that business, what are some of those problems and pains that the coaching people are coming to you with and then how do you get them to that? That better spot? What are, what does that look like?

Tim: [00:05:32] Yeah. If it's through one of my HR managers or something, usually it's a problem child it's a bad attitude or something they're having problems with our team. Maybe that team member or that manager has been through a situation where he's lost the trust of his employees or a sneeze being perceived wrong.

Perception's a big word of mine. And then I love, to work through it. And a lot of times if it's. Through the HR manager, it's usually an employee, a bad attitude. And then a lot of the stuff I come from the the [00:06:00] CEO or the executive team. And that's a lot of stuff that comes that I get into a lot of the coaching too.

As far as building the businesses, the front end, the back end going through maybe they'll have a corporate problem. They can't figure out and they want an outside person to come in and look. Look at and, or, I team up with, one of my friends down here to do some surveys and we do a lot of the survey, figure out some of the problems, figure out the internal workings.

So it's a pretty good, pretty well balanced as far as learning where a lot of my clients come from.

Keerstyn: [00:06:30] Yeah, absolutely. Talk to me a little bit more about those surveys. What kind of surveys are you doing to help these people figure out their problems, their pains, all

Tim: [00:06:38] that. It really depends. We do it from anywhere from it.

We do a lot of custom surveys and stuff and it could be anywhere from the employee engagement. It could be a satisfaction. It could be taking the pulse of the company at the time. One of the biggest things on the surveys. Just go through. If you're going to do a survey, make sure you do something in the information and what it does is establish as a baseline.

So you can check out your [00:07:00] employees to to put them against that, from a year, from now two years to see if you're advancing, because a lot of these CEOs and different people, they want to make changes. They don't know where to start, and that's where we come in and help them establish a baseline and then work Program through them where they can increase whatever the different problem or, morale to, to, bad attitudes to whatever's going on in their thing.

And then the company and increase that.

Keerstyn: [00:07:24] Yeah, absolutely. So what are some of the things that if these employees that come to you through an HR manager or a CEO, whatever it may be, if they can't fix that attitude or they're struggling to gain the concepts that they need to be good at their job, what oftentimes happens after that?

Did they continue to work with you or it's just done? Or what does that look like?

Tim: [00:07:44] Yeah, I've had multiple situations like that. A lot of times they'll go through a situation where they'll team up the manager. And put them, with me and say that I've had multiple things. Where are they?

They usually, a lot of times they'll offer the [00:08:00] program. I just had one with a very prominent company, nationwide company, and they basically gave their manager and ultimatum. They would, she was a very demeaning to her. Her team and everything. And they said, you're either going to go through a coaching program with Tim, or we're going to put you in a demotion situation.

And she actually chose to demotion situation over that. So that means that she was probably very unhappy with what our current situation was. So she chose the motion over a simple coaching program. I had a six months layout coaching program that I put together for this company. And. But at the same time I just had one to finish up where he started similar situation.

He had a bad attitude towards his group and he thought he was awesome and they thought he was not awesome. And we went through the process where I've got, I had it at this one. I created like a 13 page survey. I gave it to him. Made him do a survey. And then I did a 13 page survey to all his employees.

And pretty much at that point, you get them both back. You see where the disconnect is, real fast. He thinks he's awesome. And and they [00:09:00] don't know, it comes down to, it could be it could be a personality issue. It could be a, just a working issue or just in this case, he just, he was oblivious.

It was just his personality. He's a very dictatorship and he just, he got a little rubbed wrong with some of the management and HR and CEO and all that stuff. So he's become disgruntled more and more to the point where it started affecting his team and those little things they come out, as if you ask enough questions or do surveys or go through the process.

Keerstyn: [00:09:30] Yeah, absolutely. So I've heard a few different times the concept of becoming a leader from a manager. How do you work with these people to get them from that manager state, to being an actual leader? That's looking forward to having vision for their team and organization.

Tim: [00:09:48] Yeah, it just depends for one, I always tell people that first figure out if this manager really wants to become a leader, cause there's a lot of people that they don't want to be in a management role.

And a lot of the problem that we have in corporate [00:10:00] is. Somebody gets promoted to a leader just because I've been there 20 years, they all, you got the seniority, so we're going to make you the leader, the manager of this group. And that's the worst thing from, that should ever happen.

And, you got to know what. Oh how to deal with that first, if that person wants to go up the level, I always refer it back to, the Maslow cur Maslow's hierarchy of needs. What motivates that person is he motivated by, he wants to pinnacle in the top or does he just want a paycheck to feed his family?

And he doesn't want any of the stress of it. If it gets at a point in a, one of the classes we teach a lot of management classes, even all the way down to staff, to supervisor classes where, staff member gets promoted and all the woes of doing that, haven't, you're now.

In charge of all your buddies and stuff. So there's a lot of aspects to, depending on the situation of the person that you're, that's going through and what they can bring to the table. And, a lot of times we'll go through. If it's from a coaching standpoint, we'll assess where they're at. You can assess where they're at from through a lot of questions, a lot of the surveys, and I'm a big open-ended question person.

It's like when I go through the [00:11:00] coaching process, my first initial meeting is to get to know the person. To figure out one-on-one, you, you don't know. Yeah. If I took you on as a coaching client, this would be our first meeting, getting to know each other and talking, I'd be asking a lot of questions.

Like you're asking me and I would be doing a lot more listening, from that standpoint. And that's what she's wanting to do is get to know the person. And then we go through different things where we could do a personality assessment. We can do some different assessments that are out there to figure out exactly that person, then maybe have their people do some personality assessments or some of the other questions, other assessments, other surveys, to figure out if it's going to be a good fit for one.

And if it is a great fit, but then maybe it's something that we need to work on. And at that point, it's going to identify the weaknesses of this manager to be, and, or this manager. And then we can develop a program based on that.

Keerstyn: [00:11:46] Yeah, absolutely. So I heard in there that you've said that you used some personality assessments for that.

What do you use and how do you assess them

Tim: [00:11:55] while there's a couple of them that are out there? You can go to the free assessment personalities, like [00:12:00] 16, I think it's 16 personalities. A lot of people use that one out there. It's free a personality assessment thing. There's online Myers Briggs out there.

There's the disc training that toll Tony Alexandra he's got the four out there that you can do. So it just really depends on what they're at. I don't have one because we teach all the different ones in all our seminars. So it just really depends on what the flavor of the day is and where I'm at and how, if they're local, if they're across the world, if they're across the world, it might be something I send them.

I might just send them to the 16 personalities cause it's free online and they can kick out a report instantly. It just really depends on the client and the situation. And we can go ahead and do that. I've got some people that are certified, Myers-Briggs personality assessors. So we might be able to do that.

Full-blown if we're going to do their whole group, something like that, I'd want to go a little bit more deep. So I bring one of my assessors in that certified to go through that. And we would do the whole group instead of just the one person.

Keerstyn: [00:12:57] Yeah, absolutely. So it sounds like you're [00:13:00] working with not only the manager, but also the team.

What kind of dynamic does it turn into after the fact of working with them? Is it oftentimes a good dynamic switch? Is culture being changed in it? What does that

Tim: [00:13:12] look like? Yeah, I think it's definitely a good thing. It's just, a lot of times that half our problems and the corporate culture, in corporate world in general, it's just communication.

There's a lack of communication. There's communication difference that we need to work through. And if we can figure out where that lack of communication is and how to bridge that gap, a lot of times, I'll start out with a coaching client. I was like what's going on? And they go, I hate my job.

Okay, great. What do you hate about your job? I hate everything about my job really. I said, do you get a paycheck at that job? Yeah, I got a paycheck. Do you like that? Yeah, I like that. There's one thing you you got benefits. Yeah. And yeah, I like that too. Yeah. And we go through and we can reuse, break it down, down to one or two things that really is pushing their buttons to make them hate their job.

But at the same time, you've got to go through those, that those questions asking where it is and breaking it [00:14:00] down because most people have that big picture. It's the same with working with teams. What's the communication gap. W he's just impossible. What's impossible about it. It's just impossible.

And then we have to break it down. The more you can dive deeper and deeper. That's when you develop a program and it really comes out in the wash at that point.

Keerstyn: [00:14:14] Yeah, that's cool. Oftentimes, what are like the two top things that people realize are the biggest communication errors within a team?

Tim: [00:14:23] I think a lot of it's just personalities, they're speaking the wrong language. And then a lot of times, even go through the process of going through the personalities and making sure that they understand how that just because it's coming out of your mouth, it docent somebody else's that it doesn't make total sense in their ears.

And a lot of times the next one would be going through the situation where I had a thought there, but it just slipped me. But it's one of those things personalities, and then you go through the process where there's something that's it's an attitude or there's a thorn, there's something there that's causing that.

And I get a lot in a lot of attitude problems where they're trying to readjust the attitude of the person, but a lot of times it boils down to just a [00:15:00] simple one thing. It could be a policy in place. It could be something that manager does that rubs the team wrong. And it's just one of those things and he can narrow it down to really personalities and, or what that one thing is.

And, or just a simple communication here somehow.

Keerstyn: [00:15:16] Yeah, absolutely. That's interesting. And oftentimes people might not even realize that it's communication that they're struggling with. They might think it's a million other

Tim: [00:15:26] things. We, we think the words that come out of our mouth make total sense to the other person and yeah.

And a lot of people don't know, common sense is handed out lightly in the world. And it's just, and that's the mentality of a lot of people, but a lot of times you're just speaking the wrong language. You're speaking a language of direct and to the point, and you've got somebody that's a very soft personality and that's.

It's the wrong way to approach them. You gotta teach them from a empowering or empathy standpoint where, you know, in, or what you might have. Yeah. Somebody who's very analytical and you're just telling them, the socializer out there, that's telling them all the good [00:16:00] feelings that they're going to get out of this.

And they need to be thinking more along the lines of that. How am I bringing statistics and stuff to the conversation? So we just speak a lot of different languages, and a lot of in a lot of our seminars, I think I have. One seminar. We go through about 17 levels of communication and different things to bridge a gap from, introverts extroverts to, personality training.

And you'd go through all of these different things. The visual learning, auditory learning, you go through all these, and that really makes a world of difference. Of that person and how they communicate. But a lot of people don't understand all that stuff adds up to how we speak somebody else's language and how we make an impact.

The simple words from interviewing the person all the way to giving feedback to that person. We have to speak where they understand those languages.

Keerstyn: [00:16:43] Yeah, absolutely. So I've heard a few times of the concept of open questions essentially, and you've already mentioned it and oftentimes people don't realize what that is.

Can you give a little bit more depth of how people could coach their team with with open questions?

[00:17:00] Tim: [00:16:59] Yeah. Open-ended questions. Probably one of the biggest things. People aren't using open-ended questions, I always tell people you got one mouth and two years use accordingly, right?

You should be doing more listening than you should be doing a talk. And especially as a coach, you need to be asking a lot of open ended questions. And the more that you can get the other person talk, and then you can get them open enough. For one, it's creating that empathy is creating an empathy from that the other person.

But what it's doing is allowing you get down to the, the root of the problem. And based on the answer that they're giving you on that question that they're talking you can form another question and you can ask them that question, because even if you have the answer, because from a coach standpoint, you don't want to give where you're given.

I tell not even from a coach standpoint, I tell my CEOs that I work out. Biggest advice I could ever give you is to never, ever give specific advice to your people again, because that's the easy way out. So may comes in our office, they asked a direct question. What do we do? We give them a direct answer. I said the biggest thing I could teach you to get better about is ask open ended [00:18:00] questions.

And if you can, if I have the color blue in my head, I can ask enough questions to get you to say the color blue out of your mouth. It's really simple. I can walk you down the path by asking you enough up on the questions, but at that point you can you bridge this communication gap and they can get it in their own terms that get it in their own thought process, their own brain, analytics.

And they're not back in your office here in two hours going what did you mean by when that, when you said this or they're asking the coworker soon as I step outside your office, because they didn't understand a word you said, and that's one of those things you want to do. The more open-ended questions is just keep them open and let the other person talk.

Based on that answer, ask them another open in and you want to keep that conversation going. And it's a lot of people, I teach a lot of execs there. So I teach a lot of my, I mentioned in every training seminar I do. I just had somebody who hit me up from six years ago. I talked to us and she was down in Florida and she found me online from six years ago.

I'm one of my social media accounts. She goes, I don't know why it popped in my [00:19:00] head, but I tried this, you told me six years ago to do this. And I tried it and it's actually changed my leadership ability and in fathomable ways that she could never imagine. And she just want to reach out and tell me, thank you.

So it's one of the things that, everybody's going to do it when they get into the place that they feel like they can do it. But if you ever can speed up that learning process from a coach, And, or just a manager in general, it's asking an open ended question.

Keerstyn: [00:19:26] Yeah, absolutely. So how do you teach that to your clients?

What are some of the ways there, obviously there's some tools that you I'm sure that you

Tim: [00:19:33] yeah. There? It just depends on, a lot of times I'll tell them what an open-ended question is from giving him a list of open-ended questions and we'll do some some, if it's somebody who's a coaching client, We'll do some role play and back and forth and banter and stuff where I'll start having them ask me questions, because it's all about a comfort level.

If you do this and you, you're asking your kids, this and the kids are good about asking us open ended questions right there, they're naturals at it. So you got to become to get the point where you're the [00:20:00] natural and that's what you gotta do from that standpoint. And it's all about role play.

I it's great for all aspects, even, we use a slot in Salesforce, right? The more open-ended questions you're gonna ask. It's going to be great for the, just the sales trainings that we do as well. And it's literally starts out with a list of open-ended questions. I'll give them a list of 25 open ended questions, and you'll find your biggest ones that you like in there.

And then let's play with that as far as figuring out how that really resonates with you, that you can utilize that it makes it like it, your common saying, what's your common voice that you're going to use, which questions that you can feel that you're going to come out of your mouth and feel natural.

Keerstyn: [00:20:35] Yeah, that's cool. I like that concept of getting, giving them the list and having them have the ability to choose what feels comfortable and necessary and their job, for sure. For sure. Do you find that people struggle to have A learning curve with that. Is it quick? Some what does that look like?

Is it quick? Is it hard? Have they come up with Bessel after the first week? Or [00:21:00] are they

Tim: [00:21:01] don't? No it's a Pakistan. Yeah. You definitely have to practice it. And I find that a lot of people are resistant to it. They don't know exactly how to do it. Once they do it and they see the successes out of it.

That's when the eyes open and I do this a lot in my seminars. When I was on the road and stuff I could ask for seminars and I would do it while we were in the class. I tell, Hey, seminar ended at four o'clock. I'm like, Hey, if anybody wants to work through things, please just stay and we'll work through things.

And I told them about this open-ended seminar. I was thinking about this one in van. I was up in North Dakota. And I had 25 people that day. 23 people stayed after four o'clock and we worked on them one-on-one for another two and a half hours. This was one, a lot of, they want to direct answers, but I wouldn't give them direct answers.

And I told them how the I'd mentioned the open-ended question four times that day. And really pounded it in because the trainer were going to repeat until we get it in your head. Absolutely. And we start with this one lady and I started asking her questions. She had a relationship between her and her daughter.

This class was on stress management and everything. [00:22:00] And we went through the process. I asked her from her and her daughter, different open-ended questions. What do they talk about on the drive to school? What are they. Dinner at the kitchen table. Does she have a phone? Does she have a computer in a room, the whole daily thing.

And we got through the process. I asked her about 20 questions, about 15 minutes, and then all of a sudden she just starts bawling and she's crying. She's Oh my God. You're awesome. You're so awesome. Thank you. And the other 20 23, 22 people in the room were like, What just happened there. But they got to see that firsthand, how the open-handed questions worked.

And I explained to him that's how open ended questions are so powerful. I didn't tell her one ounce of advice. All I did is ask her questions because a lot of times people don't take the time to assess themselves. They don't take time to, they're looking for the easy out or the easy answer, right?

How do I lose weight? I want to take this magic pill, right? You can lose weight tomorrow and you can be ready to fit in that dress, drop 50 pounds tomorrow. And that's what they do, but they don't take time to ask themselves the question to really assess what the problem is. If people will take time to assess simply what we [00:23:00] do as coaches take time to assess the problems.

They can find out a lot of that stuff themselves, but they don't, that's why there's a need, that's a need for coaching. That's need for trainers to go through and walk them through this process so they can narrow it down. And that's what we do. And then once you can do that's it, that's easy. That's the first step to correct.

And the thing is to figure out what it is, but I do it by asking them a lot of open-ended question.

Keerstyn: [00:23:23] Yeah, absolutely. And even between teams. So I think that's so vital for. Managers to be able to be coaches to their team and ask those questions to get down to the root of the true issue exist.

Tim: [00:23:36] It's the same thing on managers.

I tell them to have they'd better have be having weekly meetings if you're done with me, because a lot of times they don't have them in their office to all their six month review or their year review. I'm like, why are you not having your office once a week? Saying, Hey, what can I do to help you?

What can you do? What do you do? What are you doing on a daily basis? I can help you do better. And that, what that is just creating that empathy. It's creating that conversation, scrim that one-on-one time that you need with your [00:24:00] people. But so many people make that mistake where all they're too busy and all that stuff, you can take 10 minutes out of your day.

And Paul, somebody in there and have a conversation with somebody and then send them on their way. It's a really simple thing to do.

Keerstyn: [00:24:13] Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm really glad that you said that too, because oftentimes we don't have conversations like that with our team and we don't know actually even going on with their work or their lives or their goals and it's sad, honestly.

Yeah.

Tim: [00:24:27] Our corporate environments changed now today. People want to know that, you have their back that too. You have a relationship with them. I always ask people, can you be friends? With your employees and it's very distinct half almost. I know. And half of them will say yes. And we there's a thing, but there's a fine line there. Even if you're 30% have said, no, I can't be friends with my employees. You've got to get to the point where they feel that you have empathy, they got your back. Do you know them on a one-on-one level? It used to be way back in the way you go to work for this company to work there for 20 years, you retire there, wasn't a relationship.

Didn't need a relationship. If that was just the [00:25:00] norm, but now people, they need that connection a little bit. And then you got to think of them as a manager, how you can do it. One of the big things we teach in in the seminars is just simply to print out their drop description sometimes.

Print out the job description and do a brainstorming, update that job description, just to see what that person does on a daily basis. Cause a lot of managers don't even know what that person, that tasks that they do on a daily basis. And if you go through that process of brainstorming and anytime you can do any kind of brainstorming, it's creating that empathy, it's creating that bond and you do that brainstorming.

And a lot of times you can go through and rewrite those job descriptions and then even go a step farther. I tell my CEOs managers have them initial every line item. Assign the bottom, because me as a manager, I never want to hear the words. I didn't know that was my job responsibility because I failed as a manager at that point.

Yeah. Maybe tell them, if they really didn't know that was their job responsibility and there's no, there's, it's a clear black and white at that point. If I've had you initial all that and we brainstorm everything you do and then sign the bottom, that's our commitment that we're not going to ever have that [00:26:00] conversation that you saying that I didn't know.

That was my job to respond.

Keerstyn: [00:26:03] Yeah. That's really interesting. I never thought about it that way in terms of. Having that open communication about even their job.

Tim: [00:26:11] You got to have consequences and accountability if you want me to get people to do things, yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:26:16] absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for saying that.

That's a great idea for listeners to be able to do, even with the people that they have on right now is going through that list and knowing actually what their people are doing and not necessarily micro-managing, but having a A tab on what's going on in their company and their

Tim: [00:26:32] teams. Yeah.

It makes a world of difference, and you got to and there's it's just the world we live in nowadays. Especially with all this stuff now, there's different things that we're doing now with corporate people that they're saying, how can I engage my people through this pandemic?

Everybody's working at their house. I'm like one of the big things that we're having people do now is everybody's in their home office. I go say go get one thing that resonates to you and show it to the group. So you'll have 20 people on a zoom and you can go grab a stuffed animal or a book [00:27:00] and hold it up and show everybody and then tell everybody why that resonates, why that's important to you.

Cause everybody's in that you can do that about every other week. And they're excited because they found something, Oh, I need that. I should have had that last time. And it's just a good team building exercises and stuff you can do just, in a situation like that.

Keerstyn: [00:27:16] Yeah, that's a great idea. I'm so glad that you mentioned that also full of good ideas.

Shoot. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. If people want to reach out to you more and learn more about these awesome ideas that you have with working with teams or coaching or helping people just become better at asking open-ended questions, where can they find you?

Tim: [00:27:36] Yeah, I go to Timberlands for.com T I M L I N S.

F O R d.com. Tim lands for.com. Email tim@timlancefor.com. Easiest way to get me if you want a phone number, just because the world of phone numbers, I'm still okay with talking on the phone. That's two one four three five six. Nine six six three [00:28:00] (214) 356-9663. And reach out to me on one of those methods.

Like I say we'll get back to your call. You if I'm on the road or doing seminars likely may have good message. And other than that I love people. We like to have fun. That's one of the biggest things. You gotta be able to have fun. This is my passion. This is my purpose is to help people, train people to get people to the next level.

And that's what I strive to do on a daily basis. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:28:23] Awesome. Thank you so much for joining the podcast today. It was fun.

Tim: [00:28:26] Awesome. Thanks for having me on.

View Details

This week we have Monte Wyatt on the podcast to talk about choosing a culture to create and refine during work from home. Monte goes into details about how to do this well. From making consistent efforts to having one on ones to engaging your team through virtual team building. Monte recently also wrote a book titled Pulling Profits out of a Hat. He talks a bit more about the book and what inspired him to write it.

Find Monte on his website!

Full transcription below: (may contain typos)

[00:00:00] Monte: [00:00:00] That, that's a fabulous question because. Leaders of business needs to need to coach their team on how to work through mentally this aspect of it.

And when I say mentally it's getting people to share what's concerning them and too many times managers, business leaders, whatever they. They don't have time for that. We have to make time for what are your concerns right now? And how can I help you through that? That's a big piece of leadership.

Keerstyn: [00:00:29] hi Monte. Welcome to the podcast.

We are so excited to have you here today to learn a bit more. Bit more about what you do and how you got involved in the work. Do you want us, or do you want to give us a little bit of a brief bio intro of how you got involved in your work and what you do

Monte: [00:00:45] now? Sure. I'm a farm boy from Iowa, my dad and my brothers still farm corn soybeans and hogs.

And I actually went to Iowa state and studied agricultural business. And I spent 14 years in agricultural [00:01:00] industry in different positions from sales, training, sales management, marketing management lived in five, six places around the country. The downside of all that is I traveled most of my time.

So in 2004, I said that was enough. And because of my career path that I had in that organization, and some of my ambitions, I chose to be a, an executive leadership coach back in 2004. And so the last 16 years have been focused on helping CEOs and executives, teams bring clarity to how they lead and manage their organizations.

And focus on helping them to think differently, act differently and create greater discipline in their organizations. So how about that as a start? That

Keerstyn: [00:01:46] sounds great. So the first question I have for you are when your clients come to you, obviously they have a few problems. What are those problems that they're experiencing?

There may be more than one. Do you want to just explain a few of those [00:02:00] and those pain points that they're struggling with?

Monte: [00:02:02] Sure. I've, I'll give a couple of examples of clients. I had one that I'll give a couple here. One is they approached me and said, do you help with customer service?

And I said, absolutely, of course. And so I sat down with the CEO and the executive team and dug a little bit deeper into what they were thinking around customer service. And it was actually. It's really much deeper than customer service. And became about their culture. It became about do they have goal setting?

It came about that they've been stagnant in their growth. And so it was a number of things, but they saw it as a surface issue of customer service. And we found a number of ways that we're going to improve that another client They were getting ready to transition the company.

One gentlemen was going to retire as he was leading the company. And another gentleman was moving into that chair. And so they wanted a clear strategy. And so a lot of what I do is I help people create their strategy and [00:03:00] help them implement it. But the strategy encompasses their people side. It encompasses who we are, where we're going and how we will succeed.

Keerstyn: [00:03:10] Yeah, absolutely. So during this COVID-19 thing, what has, is Ben, some of those issues, I guess we could call them that they have experienced to transition to this new, normal, so to speak. And how have you successfully done that?

Monte: [00:03:27] Think every business on the planet is in this place right now where they have to reevaluate their strategy.

And what I mean by that is, what are the products and services that we're offering? And who is the core customer, especially as we're coming out of this and opening up the world. We really have to be more specific on who do we want to be talking to? Who do we want to be interacting with?

And so that we are focused and who is the right audience that want our products or need our products at this point in time. So I'm [00:04:00] focusing every one of my clients and even prospects to, to really rethink what is our strategy of how we're going to win. Because that includes our services or products or core customer and how will we fulfill it?

Because we have to think differently on how we're fulfilling our products and services. It may be more remotely. It may be more carefully. However, we need to look at that. So it's a really rethinking everything in this new world.

Keerstyn: [00:04:27] Yeah, absolutely. And then in terms of that employee engagement side too, is what have you been doing in that realm to really engage those employees?

Get them on a new level of engagement too, because I'm sure that many of them are not used to working from home or being so technologically

Monte: [00:04:45] involved. Yeah, that is an interesting thing. And every business is so different when it comes to the team. But what I'm focusing on again is what is the culture that we're choosing to create through this?

And when I say culture, we choose it [00:05:00] and then we have to change our behaviors to try to really implement it. Right now, communication is probably the biggest thing that every business needs to focus on. Not just communication of how should we be wearing the mask and how do we interact with other people, but communication on what we're doing as a company to ensure that we are sustainable longterm.

And that is communication is so powerful right now in some organizations that's the big challenge for them. And it really doesn't take that much. It just takes some thinking and some some consistency that, that needs to be done regarding communication. So I think that's a big one, but I also believe that.

A company needs to help the employees understand that we care about them during this time. And if a company isn't showing that we care about them and their safety and their health, we're making decisions based on that. That's good. And I impact engagement and let them share their [00:06:00] frustrations.

That doesn't mean their frustrations are wrong. And that doesn't mean they're right, but people need and want to be heard and then we can take their inputs and see how does that help us continue to grow in how we interact and communicate. So I think that's a big part of his listening, communication, communicating, and showing that we care, especially right now.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:06:24] absolutely. So that almost goes into coaching to coaching your team. Not necessarily you, you are coaching because you are a business coach, but also then helping your, the teams understand how to coach, what have you been doing in that realm?

Monte: [00:06:39] That, that's a fabulous question because. Leaders of business needs to need to coach their team on how to work through mentally this aspect of it.

And when I say mentally it's getting people to share what's concerning them and too many times managers, business leaders, whatever they. They [00:07:00] don't have time for that. We have to make time for what are your concerns right now? And how can I help you through that? That's a big piece of leadership.

That's a big piece of coaching others to share. And then now that you've shared that, what can we do about it? What what can. You act on mr. Employee, what can you do that you control? Because we, as business leaders, can't take everything on our shoulders. We have to help our team take ownership to some things.

And that's what the real coaching is about.

Keerstyn: [00:07:30] Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I love the fact that you said that it's not just on the manager to be in control of that. It's also the employee and being able to take responsibility for that. And then also the manager asking the hard questions and listening instead of just simply.

Here's what you have to do. Here's X, Y, and Z plan. It's them formulating a plan so that they are successful in the

Monte: [00:07:54] process. Absolutely. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:07:57] absolutely. So I wanted to [00:08:00] jump into a little bit about your book as well. Can we? Yeah, sure. Awesome. So do you want it, tell us a little bit about the book. Give us a brief overview of what it's about, and we can ask a few more questions about that as

Monte: [00:08:13] well.

Okay. It's interesting. This book is really a culmination of the last 10 years of working with executives, CEOs, their leadership teams, and it's recognizing the discipline that organizations need to have. Now you think about discipline, you think of a person first, what is the discipline that an individual have?

And. To really get an organizational focus of growing the business and revenue and profit and engagement. We need to have organizational discipline. And that's what this book is about. It talks about five disciplines that organizations need to instill to make sure that they create a great business.

And I'm going to define [00:09:00] a great business maybe differently than a lot of people have thought about it. I define a great business as one that sustainable, predictable. Stable consistent and has an emotional connection. Now sustainable means that it's here a long time. The business should outlast everybody.

That's in it. If we're building it correctly, it's predictable. We're doing the right actions so that when we know we do a, B or C, we get more customers. We get a returning customers. It's stable because we have high retention of our team members. We're training them. We're teaching them. We're. Getting great engagement.

It gets consistent. So no matter internally or externally, when something happens, we know what to expect because we have the right processes and we manage the organization and that emotional connection. That's about who we are, what we believe in and how we make an impact on the world. And each [00:10:00] of the five disciplines really drive home some actions to fulfill that definition of a great business.

Keerstyn: [00:10:09] Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. So how so say I'm a business owner and I want to go through those five steps. What are some of those actionable advice that you would give to these business owners?

Monte: [00:10:23] For example, and I mentioned strategy earlier, and so I'll touch on it. Their strategy is one of the five disciplines. And when you have a discipline of strategy there's a number of components. One of the components in clear on what is our opportunity in the marketplace. Meaning, what is the need or want in the market that we are going to fill.

And so that is defining our strategy of how we're going to win by going after that opportunity. Another piece of strategy is how are we scalable [00:11:00] and what I mean by scalable. If we were to grow to a, another market, another geography, another country can we. Pick up what we have here and move it there because we have the systems, the processes, we have to learn how to be scalable in a business.

And for example, I've got a client when we started, they were in two States. Now they're in nine States because we created systems and processes that we could duplicate the business into another geography. And yeah. It is very much a global business today, no matter what you're in, it's a global opportunity.

And so thinking through your strategy of scalability, who is the opportunity and how can we make that fulfilled. By defining that, that stuff to be defining how we're going to win. So that's strategy. And I'm going to say that most organizations that is a big gap is not being clear. We're going after today's revenue and profit, which [00:12:00] we got to have, but we have to think about it.

How do we make this business sustainable? Real CEOs and executive teams need to focus on sustainability.

Keerstyn: [00:12:09] Yeah, absolutely. So a few things that went through my head while you were saying that is moving the business from one spot to the other. And how is that sustainable? What would you say to people who might be moving out of state?

And there are just different culture things, or maybe it's even out of the country. And they're dealing with a few different culture things, and they're a little bit concerned that this might not necessarily be sustainable, say in a different country, different

Monte: [00:12:34] States. And that goes back to the question, what is the opportunity the want or need that we are filling in the marketplace.

And if you are going to duplicate into another state or another country, you do have to do a little market research. You have to understand that marketplace and is that opportunity that we're going to fill. In geography. [00:13:00] One is that opportunity still valid in opera, in that geography number two. And that's the critical thing is we have to understand our markets probably better than ever today, because it is such a global, a world that we live in.

We have to be knowledgeable. We have to understand those markets. Not only to make the best decisions, but maybe one geography has a different approach than a different, another geography, but, or backbone of how we do things is the same. But we have a slightly different approach based on the water.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:13:34] absolutely. I love that. That's awesome. And I'm so glad that you went through those five things. That's. That's very helpful to understand the book and how it walks through. Does it walk through in those five ways? So sustainable, stable, predictable, consistent, and then emotional appeal. Does it go straight through those or does it leap around

Monte: [00:13:53] throughout the book?

I wrote the book as more of a resource guide. So the five [00:14:00] disciplines are actually strategy, business development, people, execution and mission. And so there is a segment on each of those five disciplines that, again, Support that definition of a great business, but it gives specific actions on each, a process on each to follow.

So to create organizational discipline. And like I said, it's more of a resource guide. So if you're working on something for marketing, you pull up the marketing and the. Business development area. So it's a very powerful message. And the titles pulling profits out of a hat.

So there's a little magic theme in it. And the reason I went down that path of magic is. Too many people in the world, success looks like magic because the world doesn't see all the hard work that went in or the hours of pain that went into it. And the magic side of it is, Hey, we need to do that.

Have that discipline every day. So it does look like [00:15:00] magic to our customers that no matter who they interact with, this is the kind of response we will have no matter what happens in the marketplace, we respond to this way and it looks like magic to them, but we have the discipline to ensure that it's it gets done.

Keerstyn: [00:15:18] That's awesome. I love that. That's such a great tech and such a great poll throughout the entire book. That's awesome. That's awesome. Cool. We will definitely put that the title in the show notes for people to be able to access your book. Can you just buy it off Amazon then?

Monte: [00:15:34] You can get it at any one of your favorite bookstores.

It's on Amazon. It's been an airports it's Barnes and noble and every place to buy a book. It's an audio book it's in e-book and so just some powerful things too. It's everywhere because it is something that every organization really needs to think about.

Keerstyn: [00:15:54] Yeah, absolutely.

And then Monte, if anyone wants to get in contact with you about potentially working with [00:16:00] you as a coach or just having a conversation with you, how can they access you?

Monte: [00:16:04] You bet, a couple of different ways you can go to Monte wyatt.com, M O N T E w Y a T t.com or add zeroes now.com. And in both places, you can learn how we help our clients and at add zeros.

Now you'll actually see our global team. We have a global team of facilitators that help businesses go through and implement these disciplines. So we're our objective is to really. Give executive teams the tools to think differently and act differently in today's world. And that's what our facilitators do.

Keerstyn: [00:16:41] Awesome. Awesome. Do you have any final parting words for our audience?

Monte: [00:16:46] Want to say this, that the, I believe the world today needs leadership and management more than ever, and they are two different things. Leadership is creating passionate and focused team members [00:17:00] and management is creating competent and productive team members.

And just because you're in a management role does not mean you're a good leader and leadership is not about position. It's about title and it's about action. So I just want to stress that leadership and management is needed more than ever. And there's some great tools in the book but some great tools of we, we need both areas today that we have to be intentional about to support our business, to support our team.

Keerstyn: [00:17:29] Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for that reminder. That is so important. I agree that it's so important to have leaders and managers in the workforce, not just one or the other. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us Monte. This was fun.

Monte: [00:17:41] You are welcome. I appreciate the opportunity.

View Details

Rob Taylor joined the podcast to talk about the how to fit and fill the right seats in your organization. Not only does this mean that an individual in a role has the skills to do so but it also means the individuals core values are similar to the company’s. This is important for your company, but also for you as a manager. Rob discusses what this looks like and gives applicable answers on how to make sure your people are aligning!

Find Rob on his website!

Full transcription below: (May contain typo's)

[00:00:00] Rob: [00:00:00] So we started looking at, okay, what's the, what are they really good at? What are their strengths? What are their, where else do we have and are structured where we have an opening where we could use their skills set better, their unique abilities

Keerstyn: [00:00:15] welcome to the podcast, Rob Taylor, we are so excited to have you here today. Can you please give us just a brief explanation of what you do, how you got involved in your work, that type of

Rob: [00:00:24] thing.

Sure , I'm Rob Taylor of Taylor management systems. I'm their president, and we're an organization that as an EOS implementer, we help business owners and leaders of companies get what they want from their business. ,whether their dreams, their passions, or their lifelong life term goals, whatever that is passion is, we enable them to.

How the company a lot be aligned , and to achieve those goals, , we complete proven system with simple practical tools that give them their leadership team. Initially what we call vision, [00:01:00] traction and healthy vision, and that their harps on the same page with where they're all going and their plan to get there.

So they're aligned and we get them traction and that they're accountable and disciplined in achieving that vision together. And that they're healthy and therapy cohesive, functional team that actually likes to work together because a lot of times with strong leaders, they struggle to get along. , we worked with that leadership team and we push it down to the system.

So they see the vision being achieved with accountability and discipline with teams that are having fun working together. , that's the high level. , we do other things as well, management systems and coaching and development of leaders and managers. But we do most of that now through us.

That's the system that we see that helps. It's a proven process. It provides focus and alignment. It really helps them execute and achieve that vision better than anything I've ever seen.

Keerstyn: [00:01:56] Yeah. So for our listeners, do you want to explain EOS? , [00:02:00] some people might not know exactly what that is

or all the parts of that are involved in

Rob: [00:02:05] it. Yeah. As an EOS implementer, EOS is an entrepreneurial operating system. Check it out at eosworldwide.com. It's a, and again, it's an operating system that helps companies run their company. It's a proven process. It's simple practical tools. It works. It simply works.

It does provide that focus on alignment. and so to answer your question, Keerstyn, it's a system operating system, which is a great way of, we know about operating systems that are software, if you're the founder of a business, you have this , you're a startup and you're starting to become, that next stage business and you're growing.

You find out that one person, two people, five. 10, the complexity increases dramatically. And the, that dream starts that you start to I'm the energy gets sucked out of that dream, just for dealing with people, issues [00:03:00] and problems and process issues and accountability. And it's a system that helps owners not only run the business, but get what they

Keerstyn: [00:03:09] want.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So then why is your role in that U S implementation?

Rob: [00:03:16] Sure, sure. The target markets are entrepreneurial businesses, teams that are open-minded their growth oriented. Maybe they're frustrated things aren't working, they want help.

So we're providing the answers to those issues, where. My role as an implementer, I used to be called a consultant. I've done a lot of consulting over the years to see, what I felt was good advice. To be listened to. I appreciate it, but not for me. We executed on not implemented quite right.

This is a system that I helped them implement that they use to run the [00:04:00] company, to help them grow and develop as leaders so that they're self sufficient. We're teaching them to fish to use that analogy.

Keerstyn: [00:04:10] Interesting. Okay. So how long is this EOS process laid out us? I'm actually with

Rob: [00:04:15] you? Yeah. my goal, depending on the company is two, two and a half years to have them be, if not sooner, to be self sufficient, I have clients that still want me to keep on with them and help them keep growing.

that they get to a certain point. They hit that ceiling. They want to keep growing. This EOS is designed to help them keep going and growing. But on average companies, two, two and a half years of, quarterly visits. Yeah. Getting them up and going. At some point they can kick off the training wheels if they are so inclined, which hopefully they are at some point and they can do it themselves.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:04:54] absolutely. Absolutely. So you've touched on this already, but what are some of those pain points that they're [00:05:00] experiencing and then how do you get them? Or what are some of those things that they feel after they work with

you?

Rob: [00:05:06] we're dealing with people, mostly we're dealing with, people who are growth oriented and leading and, they have ideas and so we're helping them get aligned or helping them.

Have a clear focus for what is that? Maybe 10 years down the road, somewhere between five in 20 years. What's the longterm goal that big, hairy, audacious goal to use a Jim Collins concept from good to great. And to be focused on that and to. address that plan, get it clear, make sure they are focused on it and make sure they're, by being focused on that, aligned on it, that filters out things that maybe they shouldn't be doing.

So the frustrations that we see up front, the, the people issues, accountability issues, communication issues, [00:06:00] we're driving them to be focused, which helps and time. Address those issues. And we talk about the six key components of a business, which is part of the answer to your question is by being strong, having a strong or I should say a great vision.

If you want to be a great company, to have a great vision, you have to also have great people. You have to have data to help, where you're at and be achieving your goals. You have to be great at solving problem solving. You have to be great at your processes being consistently followed by all.

And you have to have some kind of way of executing on your plans that helps address those issues. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:06:41] absolutely. Do you want to go through those six key components?

Rob: [00:06:45] yeah. So they're the first, which I mentioned vision is that. In that the aligned agreement, the focus on the longterm vision of the company, that's going to be, we're looking at the core values of [00:07:00] the company.

What are the principles by which we've worked together as a company who are the people we need to have in our company? We're looking at the core focus. What does the company do? What does it not do you know, where are they passionate about? Where are they the best app in the world? We look at their 10 year targets or their longterm target.

What's the one thing that big, hairy, audacious goal they want to achieve. We started looking about how what's their strategy for how they go to market, how they sell us their message, getting that succinctly focused on target markets so that they're efficient and effective at communicating what they want or what they do, their value proposition.

We also look at where they want to be at in three years on the way toward that, that big, hairy, audacious goal some 10 years out. So they know they're on targets or on track to achieve that 10 year. Then we start to pull it into the execution part, which is traction. What do they need to do this year, this next [00:08:00] 12 months, what goals and you achieve, and then what do they need to achieve in this next 90 days?

What we call rocks, which is a Stephen Covey concept. So we're helping them with focusing on the next 90 days. And they're getting really good at having a great quarter. That puts them on track to have a really good, great year, which puts them on track to hit their three year, which puts them on track to ultimately achieve what they really want 10 years away.

So that's the vision part. That's a lot in that I know the next key and that vision has to be shared by all throughout the company. that's another key part of that. So that's the first key component. The second is what we call the, the people components. You have to be really strong with the key people component, having great people.

So you need to have the right people and the right seats. And we go through a tool called the accountability chart and the people analyzer to make sure that we have the right people. [00:09:00] we talk about structure first. What are the right seats? What's the right structure for your company to achieve that vision.

And then we put the right people in the right seats. That's a big part of EOS to structure your company to be successful. We then the third key component is the data component having, I think entrepreneurs tend to be passionate about their business and sometimes struggled to be focused on how to make decisions and they don't have the data.

They can end up making bad decisions. So this is to give them an absolute pulse on the business. Week to week over 90 days over a quarter so that they're seeing trending on the activities, the numbers that need to be achieving each week to have a good month to have a good quarter. That's a key component that really helps them be more objective and have a great quarter.

So those are the first three. Then we start looking at, after all of that, we start to see all of our problems in that. [00:10:00] Fourth key component is what we call the issues component. And we're looking at helping leaders and executives, business owners just get really good that making a list of all of the issues, just getting them out of their head, getting them down.

And identifying them. Cause if you and I, or on a leadership team, you may see issues. I don't see vice versa and we both list them. Now we're both aware and we can now work together to solve those issues. There's a process EOS has to help leadership teams quickly deal with identify and solve those issues.

That's what I key a strong leadership team needs to be good at doing as quickly solving issues. Cause we. We tend to discuss the heck out of things. So the fifth key component is what we call process, and that's not the most enjoyable part for [00:11:00] entrepreneurs to focus on the company, but having documented processes that are followed by all helps companies be scalable and helps companies be consistent.

And, so whether you call it quality, you call it customer satisfaction. Whether you call it just being a healthy team, likes to work together, having an agreement on how we do things and making sure everybody's doing the same way, really helps a company hit on all cylinders. And the last is attraction piece.

So imagine all of these components in a wheel. And there's at the top is vision. Where's the company going, looking at it now. And the bottom part, the traction piece is hitting the ground and this getting traction. This is the execution piece, and that is through the focus on the rocks were the most important things to get done in this next 90 days as humans, we tend to be focused on a 30 day window.

You get out past 90 days, we tend to get a little bit eyes glazed over and forget what we talked about. [00:12:00] Maybe six months ago. This 90 day focus really helps us achieve what we need to achieve. Now that's the traction piece. Plus a meeting pulse, having the right pulse of meetings, same Bay st. Time weekly as a leadership team, focusing on what needs to be happening.

Are we on track and solving issues every week? So we're productive and achieving what we want to achieve as a company. So those are the six key components.

Keerstyn: [00:12:31] Awesome. I did have a question about the people part. So what if they, the person is obviously not in the right seat or they are not the right person.

What happens?

Rob: [00:12:46] That's an awkward part of life. Isn't it? And I know you're a company. You have, your products, your service is to help us as leaders and managers work with people in those situations. That's what EOS is setting up. Leaders [00:13:00] and managers to do is to identify that and just, it's confronting the brutal facts.

It's there. We have to deal with it. Maybe it's not always brutal. Sometimes it is, but it's that, if it's the wrong, person's not in the right seat. you're looking at a sign. This is a good, this person that fits our company, but this, the seat they're in this position there and just isn't working out for them.

So we started looking at, okay, what's the, what are they really good at? What are their strengths? What are their, where else do we have and are structured where we have an opening where we could use their skills set better, their unique abilities as I think so Dan Sullivan phrase, I believe that's who that is.

that's one way, if obviously, if we only have. A hundred positions in our company and we have someone who's not in the right seat, then they're struggling. That's where we have to make a tough decision, do we need to let them go? That's hard, especially if they're a good fit for the company, if they're a good [00:14:00] fit for the company, but they're not a good fit for that see that's we struggle.

so at some point you just have to make that tough decision on, Hey, this is all we can afford this. Isn't working out. We've got to get someone else better in that seat to really help us achieve what we need.

Keerstyn: [00:14:14] Absolutely.

Rob: [00:14:16] We don't just do that. we go through a process of having discussion with them, performance reviews, quarterly, if not more, one on ones you can call them, with EOS, we look at, their, their performance and meeting, fulfilling their roles and expectations.

We look at how they are compared to our core values, which I want to come back to. And we look at, What they're achieving, what their, priorities are. Their goals are for this rock, this quarter, what we call rocks? When is, are they on track and are they achieving those things? And is that, that as well as looking at each person and EOS, we try to, we get to the point, we try to have every one in the organization, have a number of some kind [00:15:00] that they're associated with.

They're accountable for helping achieve. if we're a manufacturing company and if I'm on the line, I know as a team, we have so many widgets to produce a week or a month, whatever, that's my number. The point is, if any of those things I'm on track with, and I'm struggling performance wise, we do have a system to help with giving feedback and hopefully read, redirecting them, or giving them feedback, giving them redirect, praising them to help them.

Achieve and grow and start to achieve what we're hoping that they achieve. But after the HR, 30, 60, 90 days, if it's not working yet now, the coaching, if the develop thing, if giving the feedback and all that's not working, I have to make a tough decision. So you, this isn't from my perspective, isn't just, Hey, they're not cutting it.

They're out. It's, there's a process to work with them. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:15:55] absolutely. But you mentioned core values in there, and I did want to put you on that too. [00:16:00] How do you, is there a task that they take to do look at these core values? Is it off of your basis? whether it's StrengthsFinder disc or whatever, it may be.

There's so many out there. How do you figure out those core values and then assess if that's they're fitting in the racy or if they're not, or where they could go in the future?

Rob: [00:16:21] This is a, that's a great question. EOS. This is where see EOS has clarified and simplified this, that it's the people analyzer tool.

That's what EOS has. And it's simply a leadership team initially sitting down and even looking at themselves, if you and I am four, others are on a leadership team. So there are six of us and we identify, Certain core values for our company. We then do a people analyzer to say, looking at each other, how well do we see each of us routinely demonstrating these core values [00:17:00] that people analyze our tool helps us.

Number one, as a leadership team, verify are these the core values of our company. So that's helps establish them, but once they're established it, then helps us hold each other accountable. And we come up with a bar to say, Out of maybe five core values leadership team, while all employees need to achieve a certain level of showing routinely demonstrating the core values, over time.

So it's a people system we're using a people, analyzer, we're have people analyze each other and it's not, nothing. And when you're dealing with people, nothing is perfect, but it helps us to. Assess and get people feedback on here's a core value Kiersten. I do see you routinely demonstrating. Now here's two or three situations, or I do not say you do that.

In fact, I see the opposite. one of our, let's say one of our core values is teamwork working together as teams. [00:18:00] And let's say, you're giving me feedback saying, Rob, you're not want to work with a team. You're a loner. we need to have you and work with a team and helping the team grow and being a part of the team.

And over time, let's say after two and a half months, you've given me that feedback. And I you've been very clear that's super important. It's one of our core values and addition to other core values. I'm just not the right fit for the company. That's usually where you got to make that tough decision to say, Rob, just not fitting in the company.

He's not fitting our core values. We need to find a place where he's probably a better fit, and not, it's not here at our company that usually ends up showing that when someone's not a core values fit, not always, but they tend to really suck the energy out of other people. maybe a bit toxic kind of corrosive.

And by removing that, if I'm that person you remove me from the team or from a company. You tend to see that [00:19:00] relief, Oh, it feels so much better now to not have Rob here. And you put somebody in who is a fit and it just it's again, it's the principles by which we work together. So it's an important thing to have the great people for our company, that federal company, so that we all work together.

It's the right chemistry.

Keerstyn: [00:19:18] Yeah, absolutely. So you've mentioned a little bit, but how long, so when people are implementing this process and they're figuring out a people fair or not, how long does that process normally take to realize, Hey, this isn't the right fit. We've coached them. you've mentioned two or three months, but what on average does that look like?

Rob: [00:19:38] that's a good idea that we coach them too. Make the tough choice, sooner the better, in the early stages of implementing EOS, that there's usually that look and leadership space of here's someone who we know is not a right person for our company. And let's just make the decision now.

then we have the situations [00:20:00] where, someone is an on the fence. And they need to have those discussions too, with the person to give them feedback. So it's not just picking her out. It's let me give you some feedback so we can help you see what we expect from our core values, what even that means what that looks like.

And I'm a little careful of saying we're asking, I see people to change, but sometimes awareness of what's expected. You can change people's behaviors. Too, maybe not so much that they're, they change who they are, but they change how they interact with others. And that's a beautiful thing. When you can develop somebody to, be that challenge of an employee to now be one of your stars.

Keerstyn: [00:20:43] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's just that awareness too of, Oh, I didn't even realize that I was doing that. And now

Rob: [00:20:52] yeah, we snug, we sometimes call it the blind spot, I'm not even aware I'm doing it. You're aware I'm not. And as soon as you shine [00:21:00] the light on and I'm like, Oh my goodness, I need, I did not.

Oh, I feel so bad

Keerstyn: [00:21:05] for the change. Absolutely. Awesome. Robin, thank you so much for going through EOS and what that looks like and how you coach people to be better. is there any links that, our podcast guests can go to reach out more and connect with you?

Rob: [00:21:19] Yeah. so I'm on LinkedIn. So Taylor management systems and also my website tailored management systems.com and yeah, look me up and I love, I just have a passion.

I love helping business owners and leaders. Go on and grow who have those frustrations of, we're status quo is not where we want to be. I just love helping them get on the path to achieving their vision.

Keerstyn: [00:21:43] Awesome. Thank you.

Rob: [00:21:45] Alright, thank you.

View Details

This week on the podcast we are talking to Rachel Johnson. I really enjoyed talking to her specifically about driving vision in organizations. We all have heard the story about the big company planning day that results in a 100 page document of company goals, visions, and plans for the future, but oftentimes this book is not implemented. Rachel gives some advice on how to not only slim that never ending document down, but how to also make it genuinely achievable for you, your company and your employees.

Where to find Rachel:

• Her website

Full transcription below (May contain typos):

[00:00:00] Rachel: [00:00:00] The last probably two or three weeks. I've noticed a lot of individuals reaching out to say, okay, This pandemic kicked me on my butt and I realized I didn't have as much of a handle on my business as I thought I did. So now they're looking for ways to make sure that what, whatever external factors, would help.

Keerstyn: [00:00:27] Welcome to the podcast day, Rachel.

I'm really excited that you're here with us. Do you want to just give me a brief background of how you got involved in your work and then what you do now?

Rachel: [00:00:36] Sure. So I have a non-traditional pathway to business coaching. I was an executive of a nonprofit for a good chunk of my career. And I was also a clinical therapist and we needed to turn that organization around and I hired an EOS implementer.

[00:01:00] So once we started working with the EOS implementer, what I noticed was I had a lot of skillset that really helped us in that leadership team. So it was just one of those things that it untapped. Some potential in me and I started to see myself outside of the box. I had put myself in and so long story short, a few years later, I decided to pursue EOS after I had implemented it.

And then was the integrator in my organization for a little over five years.

Keerstyn: [00:01:36] Cool. That's really interesting. So what were some of those like pain points initially that you were feeling when you did implement it into your nonprofit organization?

Rachel: [00:01:46] So the pain points was really getting the buy-in from my entire leadership team.

So having, you're implementing anything new, especially with the organization, that's been through a significant amount of change already. We had a lot of [00:02:00] turnover in leadership bringing on anything out, there was a lot of skeptic skepticism, and I had to work extra hard to get the buy-in from my leadership team.

And then you also had us talking a lot about raising the bar and that was a scary thought for individuals that, we weren't, we didn't really know what that meant. So all of a sudden there was like a job security along with that. So we had to really define what that meant. And in most cases, Raising the bar increasing our accountability.

And in most of the time, that's what everyone was looking for. The frustration and the lack of morale around the team came from. Inconsistent accountability. So it just took a lot of time. It took a lot of consistency on my part to make sure that I was sticking with it. [00:03:00] And that was tough because like I said, I had a lot of leaders around me that I respect and and they were not on board to begin with.

So I had to be really strong in my conviction with that. Yeah, absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:03:13] So how does that translate now with the teams that you're working with within organizations? What are some of those things that you can take away and then apply them to the organizations that you work with after?

Rachel: [00:03:24] I think my biggest strength in working with them is I can almost feel exactly that apprehension.

So from that very beginning step when I'm just initially. Meeting with clients and the leadership team. I can feel the skepticism. I can feel the apprehension, the anxiety. And I really come from just that relatable source. Like I've been there, I've been in your seats. And so sometimes when you're really calling that out and acknowledging that, your changing the way that you're going to run your business, that is.

[00:04:00] That's not something you take lightly. I understand there's a lot of anxiety in the room and there's probably a lot of people that think I'm full of crap right now. So yeah, some of it out because I had those Frank conversations before, and I think that helps some of my clients, because.

When I'm giving examples, I'm not just giving examples about this perfect entrepreneur that I worked with. I'm giving examples from myself in the mistakes that I made when I was implementing EOS or I'm. Making sure that they understand. I was a leader of an organization that was not doing well.

We're not perfect. We all need a little bit of help. So I think that makes it a little bit more relatable.

Keerstyn: [00:04:50] Yeah, absolutely. I could totally see that being more relatable and then people build your, their trust in you and realize that you've been there before and have walked through the mud, [00:05:00] so to speak.

Absolutely. So what are some of those things that obviously we've talked about the pains, what are some of those things that really get people like? This is actually working. We're excited about this now, and we really want to continue to pursue

Rachel: [00:05:12] EOS. I think right off the bat, the way that people structure their meetings, for example.

So we use something called level 10 meetings, and it's a very specific agenda. It helps drive the accountability. It helps keep that vision at the forefront. And the reason why I think that's the best thing. Cause it really helps you get traction right off the ground. And a lot of organizations and companies, they go through a really long strategic planning process.

And then you have a four or five, six page strategic plan that's sitting on somebody's desk, but how do you actually implement that? What is your day to day look like? So that everyone is driving that vision and there's accountable. So [00:06:00] that level 10 Meeting agenda. And another frustration for teams that I hear in one of my lines is, do you ever feel like you're meeting for the sake of meeting and then you're having another meeting for the sake of meeting and then and that happened.

Or just any, you, and then you ended up talking about the same issue. There's lack of resolution. Nobody's taking that plan of attack. And there's such a frustration with employees because they feel like they spend most of their working time jumping from meeting to meeting and rarely are they solving.

And getting any traction, moving through the weeks. So that level 10 meeting and really showing how all of these moving pieces come together and how you can productively and efficiently spend the time with your team so that you're not constantly putting out fires throughout the week. And it saves a lot, through the week.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:06:59] absolutely. I've [00:07:00] heard one thing of people entrepreneurs said I'd rather not necessarily work on my business, like work in my business, but work on my business. And I think that you're stating that pretty well of working on the business and having it grow versus fighting every fire out every day.

I'm trying to just stay afloat for

Rachel: [00:07:20] sure. And it's hard to pull people out because once you're in the weeds, And you're in that thick, tall grass for so long. It's really hard to pull people out and get them to. The first session that when I work with the leadership teams is what we call focus day.

And that's one of the first things that I have to really get their head around is I want you to almost look at this organization and if you're the board of directors, so you have to pull yourself out, you have to get yourself above the organization. Forget about the emails, forget about the voicemails, forget about all those things that started with this morning.

And that's a, [00:08:00] that's a discipline in and of itself because. Now for a decade or more, sometimes these entrepreneurs are playing the role of admin assistant CEO of, operations manager of sales and marketing. They're really playing every single role and some of them have a hard time letting go.

And so it's just really trying to frame that a bit to get them. Out of that thick, tall grass. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:08:31] absolutely. That's so important. Especially when you start up EOS and get the ball moving. What are some of those things that people struggle with off the bat when they're doing EOS? Whether it's those first initial meetings or not necessarily grabbing hold the reins, but just getting started.

What are some of those things that people might feel initially?

Rachel: [00:08:52] I would say majority of the issues are going to be people issues. So from the very beginning, [00:09:00] it's going to be hard for them to sometimes think who needs to be in the meeting. So if there's some organizations that have this formal structure, they may be have one or two people that they count as, but they don't necessarily count them as leadership team.

So it's working with them to tell them like they don't have to have all of those answers nailed down before they start EOS. There's a reason why the process is what it is. And we work on day one getting that accountability chart laid out. So they have the right structure of their organization before.

Four, they get into the vision building. And that's very purposeful. So I think a lot of it is that people issue. So from the structure of who needs to be in these seats, who do I need to cause my leadership team and they think they need to really hurry and make those decisions to this person isn't going to ever adhere to our core values or this person, there's no way they're going to do a, B and C.

Okay. That's a [00:10:00] significant issue, right? So it's, and sometimes it's just having to, sometimes we say enter the danger zone with them and really push them to say if you're allowing that person to dictate what they will and won't do in your organization, then that's your bar.

And if you're okay with that being your standard, then. EOS isn't going to work for

Keerstyn: [00:10:25] you. Absolutely.

Rachel: [00:10:27] Yeah. You have to be okay with raising that bar and sometimes tough decisions come with raising that bar and raising that standard.

Keerstyn: [00:10:35] Yeah, absolutely. And that's gotta be one of the hardest things to just that hurdle initially of this is more than just an issue within one person.

Absolutely. That's yeah, it's definitely hard for sure. For sure. What are you seeing? Oh, keep on

Rachel: [00:10:50] going. I would just say people issues are always difficult, right? They're not, they're always in the gray area and in most cases, people don't want to deal with that. And that's the ones that we put [00:11:00] band-aids over.

And then all of a sudden our organization is built on duct tape and twine banding. And we need to really secure the foundation of that. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:11:11] absolutely. What are you seeing right now, especially with this like people going back to work and COVID-19 dictating what's happening in the workplace.

What are you seeing right now? What are some of those trends?

Rachel: [00:11:23] Actually the last few weeks, so as you can imagine there for a while, when quarantine was before things were starting to get. Lifted a bit here in Michigan, it was quite quiet. People were just trying to figure out how they're going to reopen what it was going to look if they were able to reopen and really internally getting some of those constraints in place and the guidelines and all of that.

The last probably two or three weeks. I've noticed a lot of individuals reaching out to say, okay, [00:12:00] This pandemic kicked me on my butt and I realized I didn't have as much of a handle on my business as I thought I did. So now they're looking for ways to make sure that what, whatever external factors, would help.

To God, we never in another pandemic again, there's always an external factors, whether it's, why I have a client that most of it's customers GM, if they go on strike or a recession hits or anything. So there's a ton of external factors and I'm hearing from. Quite a few newer people reaching out that they want to feel like they have a better handle on these situations that they normally don't have control over.

Keerstyn: [00:12:49] Yeah, absolutely. Are you finding that those people issues are popping back up again, like what you talked about when they first started dos.

Rachel: [00:12:58] Yes. Yeah, [00:13:00] but I never in a new way. So if accountability was the problem before we have to look at how to still drive accountability with this flexible work schedule.

It goes back to, trust. In your employees and making sure that you have the tools in place so that you don't have to micromanage the accountability is built into the culture of your organization. And it alleviates so much pressure from your leaders that they don't have to spend so much time micromanaging because they're.

Are structures and tools in place that are automatically driving that. And so that's what I try to help them see is that there's not these isolated instances. You have to look at the people issues from a broad perspective, because in a lot of cases, if you're thinking accountability, I'm sure.

It's just not one person that's having an issue with accountability. [00:14:00] Again, pulling out of the weeds, seeing things from a broader perspective. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:14:04] absolutely. What are some of those tools that you would recommend your clients to use to create that accountability in the workplace?

Rachel: [00:14:12] One of the well there's two that are most important in my opinion.

And one of them is what we call rocks, which is really setting your 90 day priorities for the organization. And not only does the company get 90 day rocks. So we say three to seven. So we, less is more. And then every individual gets three to seven priorities for that quarter. And the thing about that level 10 meeting that I had discussed before is that you're checking in on a weekly basis just to simply say if that rock is on track or off track.

So again it's driving in that accountability on a weekly basis. You're not waiting till the end of the quarter to say if something was done or not done, or if it's been worked on if it's not on track, then what's [00:15:00] the issue. Do you need help with something? Is there something a barrier we're going to come up with something as a team?

So I would say really getting that. Whatever your priorities are for that quarter and making sure you're checking in on that on a weekly basis. Again, that alleviate some of that pressure from the supervisor, because you're, as a team you're meeting, you're all checking in on that. And a lot of people, it's hard for them to continue to come to meetings with their peers and be the one that can consistently is saying off-track right.

The other tool is what we call a scorecard. So one of the things we say is, you know what, won't be measured, won't be done. So if you can't measure something, then most likely, you're not saying that it's a priority. So getting the scorecard is simply saying what's a measurable, what's something in our organization that has to be measured.

Who's responsible for [00:16:00] that. So who, again at that meeting is responsible for bringing those numbers. Now there may be a team of people that are responsible for driving that number, but there's one person that's accountable for making sure that's happening. And then there's a goal in mind. So again, every week you're checking in on that and you're making sure you're on track with that and that the goal is being met.

And if it's not being met. You're able to take a proactive stance on that instead of six or 10 months down the road, you realize that you're running at a deficit and now it's, a year later and you had no idea. So those are ways that you're coming to that meeting. You're quickly checking in on numbers and I'm facts and figures.

And everyone has ownership in that, so that there's, that, that weekly accountability.

Keerstyn: [00:16:48] Yeah, absolutely. What are some of those measurables that you are putting on that scorecard?

Rachel: [00:16:54] A lot of times it's going to be related to some sort of revenue some sort of cash flow. [00:17:00] I've had clients that maybe they have a lot of machinery, so they're going to track repair costs cause they want to make sure that's, staying down.

Some people are looking at overtime hours, so it really depends on the individual. Sometimes it's new customers. How many new customers for their specific department? Usually a lot of sales related goals as well. And that's also a way that when the leader starts to delegate and really starts to work on the business, instead of in, they can still feel like they have a pulse of the business because they're looking at, the most important things.

Keerstyn: [00:17:39] Absolutely. And it's all going towards the bottom line too. It's not flimsy metric, so to speak.

Rachel: [00:17:47] And you're coming up with the scorecard as a leadership team. So then you're figuring out as a leadership team, what are the most important? One of the analogies we use is if you were stranded on a desert Island and [00:18:00] you only were able to, make one phone call to get an idea of how your business was running, what are the five to 15 measureables that you would need to know to make sure that everything's running.

Pretty much on track. So that's kinda like within the framework that we try to offer that to the leader so they can start thinking of really what's important to measure in this company.

Keerstyn: [00:18:23] Absolutely. That's really cool. I like that concept of the one phone call thing. That's smart. Yeah. I know that you said that rocks are normally kept a three to seven.

How many measurable should you be having on that scorecard?

Rachel: [00:18:38] Anywhere between five and 15 is what we try to keep it. We say a lot less is more because everything's important. Nothing is being really focused on what you're measuring.

Keerstyn: [00:18:52] Yeah. What are some of those initial hurdles that people have to get over when they're building out

Rachel: [00:18:56] that scorecard?

Yeah, the scorecard is a tough one. They [00:19:00] have to, it's just, especially if they're not used to. Tracking numbers. And that way, so just the, just getting comfortable with that. And then there's always tweaks with thinking that maybe this was the most important thing. And then once you start using it and once you start measuring things then you realize, okay, maybe that wasn't.

What was important. So it takes about one to three months to really nail it down because you just have to start working with it. You have to start putting the numbers in discussing as a leadership team. Is this really what I was hoping for? So it just, it does take some time. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:19:41] Do you find that most of your clients actually change their metrics after that?

One to three months of Oh, this is actually not a great measurable, we should be doing something else.

Rachel: [00:19:52] Not so much after that one to three months, if anything, they may add one or two, if their departments are [00:20:00] expanding sometimes product lines or, things like that. If they're. Trying a new marketing thing.

And they want to look at the analytics of that. Some kind of more specific project related things, but usually after that three month Mark, they have things pretty solidified. And then at that time they have, 12 weeks at a glance. So they're able to look at things proactively and see the trends and patterns so they can start making decisions better, once, once they're able to see those trends and patterns.

Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:20:31] I was just going to ask that, when do they start seeing those results right away? Or does it take a little bit longer than initially expected or?

Rachel: [00:20:41] The results from the scorecard. I think that the leaders start to see a lot and I can speak for myself. I. When I started introducing the scorecard into my organization, I realized a lot of things that I should have realized years before.

Think there's a lot of [00:21:00] that happen once you start tracking certain things good or bad. And then all of a sudden your issues list becomes so much larger. It's just that. Tends to happen too, yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:21:13] absolutely. When you were a leader during your EOS time, what were some of those initial reactions that you had when you did implement that scorecard?

Rachel: [00:21:25] It was just more of like why are we trying to all of a sudden the why? And luckily. I always, I think one of the strengths that I had with my leadership team at the time was that anything that I implemented, whether it was EOS or not it wasn't for no reason. And so it was, there was always, I could explain and I could connect it back to.

No, we're not going to get an increase of funding in this way. Here's an opportunity here, but if [00:22:00] I can't show our need, then we're not going to be able to get here. So I was able to articulate the pathway that to diversifying revenue streams, to increasing, each department because we're able to look at.

Ours was a little bit different. It's a Y WCA. So it's a large nonprofit. But looking at different grant opportunities, I had to be able to say if I wanted to apply for this in two years. So it was always looking term, then what do I need to be tracking now? And that's not always something that my leaders had to worry about.

So I had to juggle with giving them enough information that. They understood what I was asking them. There was a reason and it made sense to them and that they could, we could get some buy-in and they understood there's a bigger picture to this, but not bombarding them with so much grant and [00:23:00] finance information that we thought they needed to retain that.

And it distracted them from what their duties, what you know, worse.

Keerstyn: [00:23:07] Absolutely it's a fine line between looking forward, but then also being in the present.

Rachel: [00:23:12] Yeah, absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:23:13] Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Rachel, if people want to work with you and find out a little bit more about you, where can they go for that?

Rachel: [00:23:22] Yeah. So my website is R M J strategies.com. And so you'll find out a little bit more about me in there. And how to contact me and that's the best way to reach me.

Keerstyn: [00:23:35] Awesome. Sweet sounds good. Do you have any final parting words before we head out for the day?

Rachel: [00:23:43] I think if anything, I would just encourage him and to peop for people to understand, and we put ourselves in boxes a lot.

I'm a really good example of that. I have a business partner. That's a really good example of that. She was a lawyer then [00:24:00] small business owner and I'm now working for a wealth management company. One of the messages. I love to, to tell individuals getting into entrepreneurship or when they're trying to navigate their career is just knowing that you can be that and that.

So you don't whether your degree was in this or you didn't get a degree. You don't have to put yourself into a box and you don't need a specific title. To be considered a leader. And I think that prevents individuals from showcasing some of their leadership skills because they think they haven't attained a certain.

Thing. So that's something I'm really passionate about. I've seen a lot of individuals that have amazing leadership skills and I've seen them put themselves down just because they haven't achieved this title or that title. Just acknowledgement that, and even [00:25:00] for the leader sake is really looking at your people and knowing that.

They may have come in as an entry-level employee at the time, but look for the potential. Cause there's a lot of leadership skills and we box people in as well. Yeah, that would be. My parting words.

Keerstyn: [00:25:19] Thank you so much, Rachel, for joining us today. This was fun.

Rachel: [00:25:23] Yeah, it was

Keerstyn: [00:25:24] fun. Awesome.

View Details

Rebecca joins us today to discuss the challenges HR managers face in the corporate world, how important culture really is and the reality of what HR work looks like. She shares what she loved most about HR and what finally caused her to step away and start a new coaching/consulting career.

Where to find Rebecca:

• Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/rebeccaschabot
• Her website: https://www.blythetalent.com/
• Her other website: https://www.makeworkmorehuman.com/

Transcription below (May contain typos...):
[00:00:00] Rachel: [00:00:00] I've always viewed that our role in HR is really to try to balance that, that. We are there to take care of our employees and to understand their needs and to hear things from their perspective and to really advocate for them at times. And there are times where, you uncover in a situation that it's appropriate to advocate for the leader or for the organization.

And I think our job is to really enter those situations as best as possible. With a balanced view and to get, facts and information, and really hear from both parties and then understand in any given moment who really needs the advocacy and the support and who needs coaching and redirection.

And sometimes it's the employee, but sometimes it's the leader. [00:01:00]

Matt: [00:01:19] Good morning, Rebecca. I'm so glad to have you on the show today and really looking forward to talking to you about your life experience and what you've come from and where you've been. And just for those of you who don't know Rebecca is an agent has been in HR for over 20 years here.

In the area, advising business leaders and coaches and developing people and helping senior leadership really create more positive environments and helping shape that kind of organizational culture and inclusion. And all of the things that we know are key kind of topics these days. And Rebecca's kind of come into a new path.

She's taken a new route in her life right now and has come on as a as a coach [00:02:00] in her life. And I just want to know a lot more about that. Rebecca, first of all, tell me a little bit about herself and your background. Where are you? Where are you from? And

what's

Rachel: [00:02:08] your deal. Yeah. Thanks Matt.

I appreciate you having me on today. So I am a Michigander born and raised and have lived all over the state of Michigan. So I love grand Rapids. It's been my home for almost 20 years. However, it's not where I was born. So I was an import into the region 20 years ago. Back when a time when there wasn't a lot of imports in the region, that's obviously changed over the last number of years.

And I grew up all over the state mid in Northern Michigan, small towns, primarily, and then went to college in Detroit and kicked off my career there and then moved to West Michigan, really to get closer to family. And I love the outdoors. So just a more green space over here, but from a professional standpoint as you said, I've spent a little over 20 years in HR [00:03:00] and really in the generalist side.

So for those of you don't know what any church on those days there. A role where people do all areas of HR, everything from, employee relations comp and benefits leadership development, training, really everything in HR. And that was my career. Just over time, it grew from a position of an individual contributor to certainly leading, a couple of individuals working for me and then gradually to leading a team and more of an organization.

And so that's what I've done and working in a variety of industries, so started in technology and started there for a number of years and then moved into manufacturing. And then more recently in the construction industry. So three hat industry

Matt: [00:03:49] kinda ran the gamut of of industries here for this area, especially I find it interesting that we've talked to before.

HR and some of those things and the correlations between [00:04:00] really the HR side of people development and kind of the coaching type role of people development, because what I've seen and just knowing from what I know, which is very little, and I'd love to hear more about your opinion on it. There's the structure, HR has to have a lot of structure and you've got to make sure that these things are done and that the T's are crossed and the I's are dotted.

And. For the business coverage side and also for the employee. Tell me a little bit about the struggle just faced in the industry, in HR with keeping both of those. I want to keep, the person are really close, but I know I have to protect the organization.

Rachel: [00:04:36] Yeah. Yeah. It's a classic tension in the function.

And I think that my I've always viewed that our role in HR is really to try to balance that, that. We are there to take care of our employees and to understand their needs and to hear things from their perspective and to really advocate for them at times. And there are times where, [00:05:00] you uncover in a situation that it's appropriate to advocate for the leader or for the organization.

And I think our job is to really enter those situations as best as possible. With a balanced view and to get, facts and information, and really hear from both parties and then understand in any given moment who really needs the advocacy and the support and who needs coaching and redirection.

And sometimes it's the employee, but sometimes it's the leader.

Matt: [00:05:28] That's a tough balance. I I can't imagine it. And it just, since that it would be difficult for some people to really do that well. And so I'm just always impressed with with HR directors who have done that successfully.

As long as they have, yeah. Almost have to have that personality piece, but you have to have that structure and some of that critical thinking and some of those things, so kudos to you on that. So question for you, this is the most fun question I ever have. So obviously you're passionate about people.

What took you from this 20 plus [00:06:00] years of HR experience to walk out one day and be like, you know what, I'm gonna do my own thing. I'm going to, I'm going to go into coaching and tell me about that moment. Yeah.

Rachel: [00:06:09] So great question. Would say that, I've worked in large and small organizations.

And as I said earlier, all different kinds of industries, but the thing that I've found pretty universal about my experience and I feel really blessed and thankful to have experienced this in my career. I can honestly say that all the organizations I've worked for really believed that their people were their differentiator.

And as a result, believe that culture really mattered. And that, that was critical to attracting and retaining and developing the best talent. And so I, had the chance to operate within that in a corporate environment. But the reality is in traditional HR, what you often spend a lot of time doing is, firefighting, crisis management.

Policy, [00:07:00] a lot of the stuff that, as you said earlier, has to get done and is necessary and as part of structure and process, but ultimately is not the most enjoyable aspect of your job. And so when I thought about the days where I was excited to go to work, or the days where I would come home, really energized to talk with my husband about my day, It was really always a day where I had come alongside either an individual leader or a group of leaders to help them with their people challenges.

And, over time you start to realize that's really where your passion is, where your love is, where you want to spend the bulk of your time. And, in corporate HR, you. You can only do so much of that. There are times where there's just other things that need to get done. And so I made the choice that I wanted to make a shift and be able to do more of what I love and less of what I didn't.

And so that drove me, making the change. I did good

Matt: [00:07:56] for you. That's a fantastic place to be. It's interesting [00:08:00] looking at it and hearing you speak of it. I've had a similar experience when I got out of corporate and decided to just start coaching and going in and working and walking beside alongside leaders.

And it's a really refreshing exciting experience. Give me a little bit about. Your first cause I know you're just stepping into this. It's new and it's still fresh, but you do have a lot of contacts and relationships. So what do you think your biggest challenges?

Rachel: [00:08:30] I think the biggest maybe issue I'm wrestling with, as I think about going into the space and coaching is really understanding what kind of coaching I want to do.

There is coaching for performance coaching for development. And I also think there's coaching that is often really just about listening and helping the individual come to their own realizations. And I think all of that is beneficial. I also know from my years of [00:09:00] experience that at the end of the day, leaders usually come to you when they're really stuck and jammed up and, sure.

They certainly want you to help them navigate forward. But they're already at their wits end. And I like to use the questions to really understand what's going on, where the person's at, what they've already done, what they're thinking about. But I do think there's a time and a place where, what someone really is looking for is a little bit more advice and direction and not just pure coaching.

And so I think my goal is to really try to blend the two of those together to help someone grow and develop. But also when they're really stuck in jammed up to be able to give them some advice and direction, help them move forward.

Matt: [00:09:39] Yeah. And what a great way to pair that yeah. With your past experience.

I truly believe there's some great coaches out there that just never had that consulting or advice space that they haven't experienced that. So you have really the best of both worlds, because there are definitely moments I know where you had to just advise people to make smart [00:10:00] choices and smart decisions within an organization.

As a director of HR. So it certainly is a perfect fit for you. So let's talk a little bit about your current business. So you're doing that right now. You're starting out and going in that direction, where would let's say there's a leader that needs some help. Why would someone reach out and say, you know what, I need to call her back?

Rachel: [00:10:18] Let me answer that map, but maybe let me go back and add one more thing to it. You were just talking about. I do think that real world experience is a really critical aspect to being an effective coach. Although I've been in the HR world for a number of years, we would often reach out to consultants or other experts to bring them in occasionally on different projects or special initiatives.

And when we did what I was always looking for is consultants or experts who had enough real world experience to really add value. And you can definitely tell when you reach and connect with someone who just doesn't, they haven't been there, they haven't done that. They don't really understand what you're experiencing.

And they're [00:11:00] trying to give advice and counsel from, I really called an outside perspective and sometimes that's healthy in terms of they have. An unbiased view, but if they've never really lived a day in your shoes, I think it's hard to give great advice. And so I do think that my years of experience will help me in industry, will help me give better advice and counsel to my clients

Matt: [00:11:20] very well said. And and certainly not appoint to misc that outside experience really does. Give you qualifications. So I always laugh when I look at a job description it's or this many years experience while yes.

I've had this many years experience, so well, fantastic. Thank you for clarifying that. And back to that piece what where would a leader need to be or what would it be a good reason for a leader to call you?

Rachel: [00:11:42] Yeah. So I work independently and I work with the team of individuals at Blake talent, another local organization here in town, who does HR and leadership consulting.

And so we, have an interest in a desire to support leaders at different life cycles. [00:12:00] So whether that's an emerging or a new leader who is, really just starting to advance in their career and need some guidance and coaching. And how to build a great team and how to navigate some of the dynamics of that.

We're able to come alongside and help those individuals, whether, or if it's a senior or mid-level leader, who's running an organization or a function, or even the business to come alongside them, whether that's to help them with strategic initiatives, as they think about their culture longterm or their talent attraction or retention issues.

Certainly in this day and age, we're all very focused on inclusion. And we recognize that, despite the fact that diversity inclusion has really been around in the industry for years, we're really having to come to a reckoning of recognizing that we are not where we need to be. And we haven't advanced.

As we need to advance in our workplaces. And so coming alongside leaders who are challenged with [00:13:00] that and trying to help them grow and shape their cultures and their leadership teams differently. So a variety of challenges, and then helping individuals who might be making career transitions or, struggling in their role and need some development.

Those are all things we can help with.

Matt: [00:13:16] So true. It's I love that you said that we, maybe we haven't come as far as we think we have, right. Just gosh, it's such a, it's such a, what I think what we feel like is an inclusive world with an underlying non-inclusive foundation that we have lied to ourselves that was built, so it's really not there and we have to work harder to. To do that and to make people really feel genuinely included into every aspect of the business and the life of the company and the life of individuals. Love that you're a lot of your work is in that space and yeah, people need it.

They really need it. So one last thing,

Rachel: [00:13:55] I was just going to say, businesses want to get great business results. Let's be honest about that. [00:14:00] And yet, I think what we continue to forget is that our results really come through our people and our people are going to perform better. They're going to bring their best selves, their best problem, solving their best innovations when they can show up as they are.

And so I think this desire to create an inclusive work environment, isn't just about the fact that it's the right thing to do, but it's also about, getting better business

Matt: [00:14:26] results. I love it. So good. That's a great point. I want to ask you one more thing, tell me a story about a time where you really came in as a coach.

You remember, something in the past that brought you into this space.

Rachel: [00:14:43] Wow. There are so many I would say there probably every day there would be someone in my office with a question, or a challenge that they needed help with. I can, I'll go back to a time where I remember a leader I was working with who [00:15:00] ran a function and, she had been.

More of a technical expert, right? And as many leaders are, they get promoted based on their technical expertise or functional expertise. And she was starting to build a team for really the first time in her career and was struggling with some of what that looks like. One of her first employees is really high performer.

And that's always an easy situation to navigate, or I shouldn't say easy. It's always easier than having someone with difficult performance, but high performers still take a lot of time and energy and you want to invest that time to help them grow. But she was struggling with a performer on her team, and that was really a new challenge for her.

So had never had an individual under her who was not performing well. And wasn't sure what to do. And so we just, I came alongside her from the beginning and to [00:16:00] understand what was going on, what had she already done? What was her kind of goal and hope for that person? And we just plotted a path together on how to navigate that, hoping that we could, correct the performance and the behavior and get things back on track, but also helping her feel confident that if that couldn't happen, that we would be there to help.

Her navigate that process to help ensure that we try to treat him that employee with dignity and respect along the way. And that we can, help things work out in whatever way they were going to work out. But. To help her navigate that. And it took a number of months of doing that to work through that process in the end, the individual did end up leaving the organization.

But I think we had done a really good job of trying to help make that person successful, concluding that it really wasn't a great fit for them. And. No, the leader frequently was just very appreciative of Oh, thank you so much for coming alongside me and [00:17:00] helping me navigate this. And, it was very stressed and overwhelmed.

And so yeah, that's, just one of many, but like I said, almost every day, there's someone in your office asking for advice and counsel and you're helping them navigate tough situations.

Matt: [00:17:16] Yeah. And it sounds to me like it pairs perfectly with. What you want to do really on your own and for black talent and just doing the things of helping leaders navigate waters that maybe they haven't been in.

And I know just from my experiences as well, and I love that you told that story, that sometimes there are just great employees that they get promoted and don't really have the leadership or management skills to. To work with people, right? They're just not there yet. And so having someone to come on beside them and help them navigate that is, is so needed.

So it's

Rachel: [00:17:50] fantastic. We often, I think it's a really common pitfall of leadership is that we promote people with really great technical expertise and we [00:18:00] forget that they need a very different set of tools. To do a job, the job of a leader, and, some organizations do a great job of helping employees investing in the skills.

They need to do that well, but some, it just gets lost in the shuffle, it's a sink or swim. And I've put together leadership programs to help grow those skillsets, but then I've come alongside and helped coach people one-on-one as well.

Matt: [00:18:23] Fantastic. Thank you so much for taking a little bit of time with me today.

I want to give people the opportunity to get ahold of you. Let's talk about your business a little bit, or any links, how would someone get ahold of you? They want to do? Yeah.

Rachel: [00:18:35] Yeah. They can certainly find me on LinkedIn. I'm out there and they can find me there. And then I am, as I said earlier, doing work with talent.

So that's M B L Y T H E talent.com. And you can find us there and then doing work with a human workplace. So that's an organization nationwide that's helping make work more human. And so we host [00:19:00] gatherings, which are really events to help build more connection amongst people in the workplace. And so you can find us there@makeworkmorehuman.com.

Yeah.

Matt: [00:19:12] Fantastic. Thank you so much. Any last parting words for someone who's maybe I'm going to become a coach one day and I'm not really sure. And it seems like a big step. Anything like for somebody like that?

Rachel: [00:19:22] Yeah. I think the, the other thing I would say about coaching is. I think we have this myth about leadership and an experience where that as people grow in their career and advance into further and further senior roles, we believe that they have all the answers and that they encountered everything they need to encounter. They're always going to have the best solutions and know how to navigate all situations. And we put senior leaders on a pedestal. And I think the reality is that we're all just people learning and doing the best we can.

[00:20:00] And ultimately I think, we need to make sure that we support our leaders well, and coaching can be really a great way to do that, to provide some outside perspective, to provide some support. And so I think the chance to offer that to your employees can be really a valuable experience. It helps that individual grow and develop and ultimately helps them to drive better business results.

And so I think, as a coach I look forward to the chance to really just help those leaders feel seen and heard and valued and supported at a really critical point in their career.

Matt: [00:20:36] Yeah, that's a great point at the end. It really ties a bow on the whole discussion is as far as what people think they need, what leaders think they need and putting those leaders up there as the know, all of all things is really sometimes more damaging to them than it is to us and the people around them.

Thank you for that. And thank you for just giving me some time today. I have thoroughly enjoyed it and I look forward to seeing you soon.

[00:21:00] Rachel: [00:21:00] Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me.

View Details

Tim joins us today to talk about how better conversations lead to better relationships, which in turn lead to more engaged employees. Companies and managers who understand and embrace this philosophy will experience better relationship and better culture and ultimately a positive impact to the company bottom line.

Where to find Tim:

• Tim@realretention.com
• www.realretention.com
• Conversational Management Certification coming in February

Transcription below (May contain typos...):
[00:00:00] Tim: [00:00:00] But if you really want your organization to flourish, you have to have better relationships. And if you are going to have better relationships, you have to have better conversations. And that's really what coaching focuses on.

Matt: [00:00:14] Good morning. This is Matt Cunningham and I am with Tim Cosby today on our podcast. And I'm excited to have Tim here with us. Tim is the owner and founder of real retention and as a fantastic coach and author and a speaker and educator. So I've known Tim for quite some time now, and we've just become great friends, as well as just having the opportunity to do some work together.

And I'm excited this morning to have Tim join us. So Tim, welcome and thanks for yeah.

Tim: [00:00:43] Hey, thanks Matt. Thanks for having me on appreciate it. Yeah,

Matt: [00:00:47] absolutely. So one of the things I wanted to start out this morning with is I've known you for a little while now, and I know a little bit about where you came from in your past and career and things like that, but.

Tell the other people what got you into [00:01:00] coaching, what your career path was and how you got where you are today?

Tim: [00:01:04] Yeah. Good question. I've always wanted to help people grow and so throughout my career, I've done some work for some nonprofits. I've been in higher education. I've worked with, teenagers work with college age students and.

All along the way, my focus has been really to help people flourish. So 10 years ago I started a coaching practice because I thought that coaching was really. Probably the most effective way to help people move from where they are to where they want to be. That was in 2010. And what happened through all of that is through that, just the experience of learning, how to coach and coaching people.

I've met people along the way and realize that this coaching approach that. I learned was [00:02:00] something that could easily be transferred to leaders in organizations and having worked for a number of organizations throughout my career. I realized that most of the leaders that I worked with really didn't know how to do this.

And so they, they were more focused on telling and kind of command and control and I'm the expert. And I'll just tell you what to do and that kind of a thing. And I never really felt that was very effective. So along the way, my co-founder and I, Mike McGreevy realized that this approach that we had learned in coaching of helping people to change without telling them what to do was really effective.

With managers, with parents, with teachers, with whoever, it doesn't really matter what you do. This approach was really helpful because it helps you to build better relationships with people. And [00:03:00] that way the people that are in your circle, the influence are more likely to stay around a lot longer. So in 2016, we started I started another company called real retention.

We first started out training people to coach. So we were training professional coaches along the way, which we still do. But we decided let's just focus specifically on organizations and specifically on helping managers. To develop a new way of relating and building relationships with employees so that they could keep their employees longer.

So we just said let's call it real retention. And we're just going to help companies retain their best people. So that was in 2016. And we're still doing that. It's

Matt: [00:03:49] incredible. Thanks for sharing this story. First of all it's incredible to see that something as simplistic as having better relationships might actually help you keep your people.

[00:04:00] I think oftentimes people don't realize how important the value of a relationship is. So as you discovered that as you've gone through the last four years of this this process, what are some of the big aha moments you've had?

Tim: [00:04:12] Yeah, good question. I think one of the biggest things that we realized along the way was that if you want your company to flourish and and grow, and he does if you don't, then I guess there's other things that we could talk about.

But if you really want your organization to flourish, you have to have better relationships. And if you are going to have better relationships, you have to have better conversations. And that's really what coaching focuses on. And so we developed a product called conversational management because we felt that at the end of the day, everything comes back to conversations.

And if we could help leaders, managers, whoever have better conversations with [00:05:00] people to build better relationships and build, trust that at the end of the day everybody was going to win. So that was a huge aha. In fact, what we realized is that what we're doing is really like an operating system.

For engagement in organizations. It's not another program and there's plenty of programs out there for management development and engagement and all those kinds of things. But I think what we're bringing to the table is something deeper than that. It's this operating system upon which every program operates out of.

And that was a really important aha moment. For us, because we realized that what we're doing is really core. Gotcha.

Matt: [00:05:46] Incredible. So this operating system is really the foundation to moving forward and in that relationship structure, in that conversational structure.

Tim: [00:05:54] Yeah. And I think, the whole thing of operating system, maybe 10 years ago didn't make as [00:06:00] much sense as it does now, I've got an iPhone sitting right here in front of me and every once in a while you get these notices that you have to update.

Date your operating system. And what I've realized is that I've got a lot of apps on my phone and on my laptop, I've got a lot of programs, but if I want all of those programs to work well together, I need a really good operating system. And apple and HP and all these other companies are doing there.

They're just creating better operating systems. So everything works better together. That's what we bring to the table.

Matt: [00:06:36] Okay. Wow. Wow. And what kind of success have you seen? When you go into these companies and you're like, Hey, I got an operating system and you need to figure this out. And this is a pretty good thing.

Or, you tell me a little bit more about how that looks and what kind of success you've been.

Tim: [00:06:50] Yeah back in 2016, of course, as things have changed quite a bit since 2016, I feel like it's a completely different [00:07:00] world. Isn't it?

Matt: [00:07:01] Things changed quite a bit since since yesterday. So 2016 was a long time ago.

Tim: [00:07:07] Yeah. Wow. Maybe we can talk about that in a few minutes, but in 2016, what was happening was there were a lot of companies that were experiencing just abnormally high, voluntary turnover. And, every company experiences turnover, and I think a certain percentage of turnover is probably healthy, but we had companies that were coming to us that were having like 140% turnover.

Wow. Or 90% turnover in one of their divisions or something and was just like, wow that's not sustainable over a long period of time. It was like what in the world are you doing? As we started researching all of this, we found. That turnover, as is just a symptom of something else.

And about that operating system, way, way down there. [00:08:00] And what we found was that turnover was a result of disengaged employees. The huge aha moment for us, because we realized that if you really want to solve a problem, you have to deal with the root cause. And if you don't deal with the root cause then it's really not going to matter down the road.

Cause you're not right. Solve your problem. So we found that at the root of this turnover problem and all the other things that companies were struggling with was this disengagement issue. And then we went down even deeper and realized that because we just asked the question why are employees disengaged?

And what we realized is that it was this cause and effect like circular relationship between management practices and organizational culture. In other words, managers need to be doing things every day with their employees, call them [00:09:00] management behaviors or management practices.

And that's what leads to engage the employees. And if managers are doing these. Practices on a daily basis, then it's going to impact the culture and you're going to have a better culture and you really can't separate those two. So we just said at the end of the day, okay. Then if we want to help companies retain their best people, then we have to help them deal with root causes.

So we developed a program that deals with management practices and organizational culture. We just happened to do it through the medium of coaching because we think that coaching is so effective.

Matt: [00:09:41] Fantastic. Fantastic. And what kind of results have you seen in that?

Tim: [00:09:46] We've seen really positive effects and not only positive results, not only from the way we teach and train, which I think is different than maybe a lot of organizations, but also in the [00:10:00] role in the results that we're seeing.

So for example we worked with a college here in the area and they, there. What they call their freshmen retention rate. In other words the number of freshmen that come back at from the end of their freshmen year to the beginning of their sophomore year, that's the freshmen retention rate and their freshmen retention rate.

Was it about 62%. So that meant that almost 40% of freshmen that they had recruited at the end of the year, they left. Man, it costs a lot of money to recruit a college student. All of that work and effort into that. And then at the end of the year they go, eh, I think I'll go somewhere else.

That costs a lot of time and money. So they brought us on and. They said we really want to change our culture. We really want the kind of culture that [00:11:00] empowers people. So we started training people to coach and faculty, students, and staff, and maybe 170 people that we trained over the period of about three and a half years.

But by the time we left our, by the time we finished our main contract with them, their freshmen retention rate had gone from 62% that 82%.

Matt: [00:11:21] Wow.

Tim: [00:11:22] I'm three and a half years. So that saved them. If you want to put a dollar amount on that, I think it was about a little bit over $2 million.

And so along the way, we actually help them to change their culture. So that between the faculty and the staff student leaders, that on campus, they were learning a way to have better conversations, to build better relationships, which actually empowered. People and students stayed longer. So it's yeah, it just made sense.

So we really helped that organization. I think grow another organization came to [00:12:00] us. That was a transportation organization across the United States. They had about 52 terminals. If I remember correctly, And is there a voluntary turnover rate among their terminal managers was about 60%.

And it's that's costing you a lot of money, right? Because if your terminal manager is gone, then all your frontline supervisors, your truck drivers, it really impacts everything. So they were having this problem. They weren't really sure how to solve it. They had tried a few things and through a friend of a friend, we got in front of them and told them our story and said we think that this makes sense because it deals with root causes.

So they said, okay that makes sense to us. So let's give it a try. So we rolled it out and I think we ended up training about 150 leaders there over a period of a couple of years, but within a 11 months. And this was really [00:13:00] surprising to me because I didn't think that it would happen this fast, but within 11 months, their turnover rate had gone from 60% to 19%.

Among third term camp managers. Yeah. That's amazing. It is. And, we saved them over $3 million just in, in 11 months.

Matt: [00:13:20] That's amazing.

Tim: [00:13:22] It was pretty incredible. So companies experience better relationships and better culture, but it also impacts the bottom line.

It does,

Matt: [00:13:31] which is great. The return on investment is is hugely important. And obviously you're creating a value for these businesses not only in their relationships, but also in the bottom line. To help them move forward and to keep the best people. And I think we all know it costs a lot more to lose someone than it does to keep them and try to help them improve and grow.

So I greatly appreciate that story. One of the things I had for you, Tim, I wanted to ask I know you talked a little bit about this coaching thing that you used to. You'd started out training coaches and certifying people and [00:14:00] this sort of led into this process and this understanding of real retention and what that is and the product conversational management.

Tell me a little bit about maybe if someone's out there looking to become a coach or just become a coach is there anything there to help them? Why would they contact real retention?

Tim: [00:14:19] That's a good question. Thank you for asking that what's happened through the years is that we've developed several businesses really?

Because I don't know, it just worked out that way. We started out training professional coaches because we were professional coaches and we wanted to help coaches flourish. So we still train professional coaches. So if somebody is saying, Hey, man, I think I'd like to start a coaching business.

First of all, I'd meet with them and say, are you sure that this is what you want to do? This is, it's not an easy thing to do, so don't step into this lightly. Yeah. Make sure this is what you want to do, but if they do, then we have a certification program. It takes about nine months to a year.

To get through our [00:15:00] certification program and, we help you start a coaching business. So if you've got, if you've got that kind of desire to start a coaching practice, we can help you with that. I think that if you're Person that's thinking about coaching and maybe looking to add another product line to just coaching people.

We're starting of an affiliate program. We found that, real retention makes a lot of sense to people when you say yeah, I work at real retention. We help companies retain their best people. That means a lot to a business owner. So we're looking to expand real retention across the United States.

Matt: [00:15:47] There

Tim: [00:15:48] might be a coach up and, San Francisco or whatever that is looking to add another product line to what they're already doing. We've got conversational management and now we're developing [00:16:00] conversational selling. So we've got a product line and a proven product and it sells, it's been vetted.

Our company's been around for, about five years. And we've trained leaders from, a lot of companies thousands of leaders. We're looking to expand real retention and I help coaches add a product line to what they're already doing.

Matt: [00:16:25] That's fantastic. I know a lot of times coaches will come out and not have a huge line or an understanding, or even what they call their niche and struggling in that.

So I know that can help a lot of coaches that are looking for that. And I know that to, of the product that you have is really genuinely helpful, too. Helping people understand how to be better managers and leaders within their companies and helping their companies grow. So I greatly appreciate you talking about that and just what the what it sounds like, what the proven model is of what the product is and has done for people, with with kind of one more thing in mind. Do you have a story that. That sort of resonates with you [00:17:00] that led you into saying, you know what, 10 years ago, I want to become a coach. Was there, is there a story that kind of put you down that path?

Tim: [00:17:08] I don't know that there was just one thing. I think for me, it was the communicative effect of about 30 years of helping people grow and then realizing that the way that I'd been helping them to grow may not be the best way to help them to grow. In other words, coaching is meeting people where they are and helping them to change without telling them what to do so that they take ownership.

So I think it was that experience of being able to help people. And then realizing that, wow, here's a way to really help people, and I'm not just the expert anymore. It's you know what, I believe that you can solve your own problem and I'm going to help you reach your [00:18:00] own goals, but I'm not going to tell you how to do it because I don't really know.

So I think that's really what. Grabbed me inside and I real, I wished that I would have learned how to coach, when I was back in college, I think it would have probably changed my career, but that's really what I think led me into coaching. And then it really led us into creating these other companies because we realized that this is probably the best way for managers to manage.

Matt: [00:18:28] Absolutely. Yeah, that's great. I think there's a lot of people out there that are listening. That'll relate to that. And consulting or giving advice can oftentimes feel easier. But it takes the responsibility off of the person listening at that point. And so it's certainly as effective understanding that coaching allows people to take ownership, to be more engaged in the conversation, into Process things for themselves and think through the things that maybe they hadn't thought that through thought through before.

And so it's certainly it sounds to me like you [00:19:00] went for a long time and gave a whole bunch of advice and really expert and realized one day, maybe that's not the best approach. And it's really a great story for, to hear for me and for many people out there. So I greatly appreciate that. If if someone needed to get ahold of real retention or Tim Gasby tomorrow how would they go about that?

Tim: [00:19:19] I think pretty easily, Tim, at real retention.com will get me and O or they can just go to real retention.com to our website and contact us all the information is on there. We'd love to have a conversation with you.

Matt: [00:19:34] Fantastic. Any current programs or certifications coming up in the near future?

Tim: [00:19:38] We've got one coming up in February, I believe February 2nd. You can see that on our website for conversational management, we've also developed a new program called conversational selling. And we were basically taking the same coaching approach, this core operating system and applying it [00:20:00] to the whole selling and buying process.

So we're doing our I think we'll be doing our second cohort starting January 26. That's also going to be on the website. So we have several programs coming up. You can go to empowerment coaching network. Dot com and learn more about our coaching certifications. Okay,

Matt: [00:20:20] fantastic. Great. I greatly appreciate your time today and want people to reach out if you have any questions, if if you want to get ahold of him, please feel free to reach out to him.

And I'm sure he can help you out. And thank you for your time today. Any last parting words of wisdom for people listening today, Tim.

Tim: [00:20:38] If you're a manager out there, this is a. This is one of the most difficult times to be a manager. I think managers are really struggling because everything is going virtual and now their their workforce is no longer in the cubicle next to them.

We're down the hall there. Their [00:21:00] house with their kids in the background and still trying to manage a business. So I think the training that we offer in the skills that we provide to managers are extremely helpful, especially now in this. COVID world that we're all living in. So I would encourage managers out there who might be listening to this and maybe looking for a training program for other managers, maybe your HR director, or L and D or talent development, I would say I'd love to talk to you and show you how we could help all of your managers flourish.

Matt: [00:21:40] Perfect. Thank you so much. It sounds like whether you're a coach or an aspiring coach or a manager having better relationships, having better conversations just leads to more engagement and to more relating and understanding how people operate. Thank you so much for your time today and I greatly appreciate it.

And I'll talk to you soon.

Tim: [00:21:59] Good. Thanks. [00:22:00] Ma'am.

View Details

Leslie joins us to talk about the frustrations around poor communication, ineffective conflict management, and how to position oneself to work from strengths and passion. Each of us has our own "superpower" to bring to our workplace. Often these "superpowers" go unnoticed and unrecognized. Leslie shares her mission to help female leaders uncover their brilliance, identify their strengths, and create a roadmap for change in their professional and personal lives.

Where to find Leslie:

• Her Website: www.coachwithleslie.com
• Her Event: https://www.eventbrite.com/x/uncover-your-brilliance-your-road-map-to-your-best-year-ever-in-2021-tickets-132094077943
• Her online course: https://ecademy.nspiredignite.com/courses/the-3-ps-to-mastering-difficult-conversations
  • Now through the end of the year use the coupon code HappyHolidays10 to save 10% off

Transcription below (May contain typos...):

[00:00:00] Leslie: [00:00:00] And I really want to help people maximize their productivity and their focus and work in their area of strength, which I like to call their superpower because when we're working in our super power, it's amazing. And I know from personal experience, when I try to step out of that and do something that is not really a good fit for me, I get myself in trouble.

Matt: [00:00:24] This week on the podcast, we're joined by Leslie . Leslie owns a coaching practice called coach with Leslie. She's, a dynamic speaker and trainer with over 30 years of experience, helping employers solve their trickiest people problems to delivers a message that focuses on helping groups, build trust, reduce conflict, and enhance workplace relationships.

I'm thrilled that today, that we're talking about her new program called uncover your brilliance, which is all about you and stepping into a place where you can find your super power. We're so glad to have you, Leslie.

Leslie, welcome it is good [00:01:00] to see you today. And I'm really excited to spend some time with you and talk through a little bit about who you are. And, so this is the managing the way podcast we are, you're with way point in, we are here today with.

Leslie theater, Enzo. I always try to say that very clearly. Leslie was a, has been a friend of mine for quite some time now. And, I guess going on three or four years, I think, through the chamber of commerce and, support in Jackson, Michigan, and her parents moved her here when she was about four years old.

And now she lives in Wyoming, Michigan with her husband, known as Butch and, their adult daughter lives three miles away, which is really cool. They get to walk every day, which

Leslie: [00:01:41] I think is awesome. Three

Matt: [00:01:44] Oh three to okay. Three miles away. That's right. Three, three miles away. Three tenths of a mile away.

Oh, like right down the road.

Leslie: [00:01:50] Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic.

Matt: [00:01:53] and I know that you started your career, as a payroll clerk, this is fun, a fun fact. it looks like [00:02:00] your original job was located where the Amway grand Plaza is now, correct?

Leslie: [00:02:04] Yes. Obviously they tore down the building to build the towers.

Matt: [00:02:09] Yeah, super cool. And then that kind of led you into HR and some different things and, moves just in that direction. So that's super cool. And I can't believe that. you've lived here a long time and it's really a, it's a great city. So tell me a little bit, I like to know just a little bit share with, with us a little bit about you and what got you where you are today and your career went into HR after that.

It looks like. And yeah. Share with me a little bit about your career path and how you got where you are now.

Leslie: [00:02:39] Sure. So this will date me, but when I first, my first real job was as a payroll clerk for, F Randabel company, 10 texts corporation, and I typed. The payroll checks on a manual typewriter and to use the books, to look up the tax codes for payroll deductions.

And it was [00:03:00] well before computer and automated payroll. So it took me, most of the week to get probably a hundred checks prepared and tightened out for distribution. yeah. it's a whole different world working nowadays, especially like this was stuff of the future and the Jetsons,

Matt: [00:03:18] That's what the Jetsons. Absolutely.

Leslie: [00:03:20] Absolutely. Yeah.

Matt: [00:03:23] Very cool. And so how long have you been doing what you're doing?

Leslie: [00:03:25] I launched my own coaching practice in March. two weeks before the shutdown order came up box you're

Matt: [00:03:34] like, that was the best decision of my life.

Leslie: [00:03:36] It was the best decision of my life because it was a decision that had been planned.

to move forward and that they came and I just pulled the trigger. but I'd done a lot of work, for a long time, very similar work. it's just me right now. Okay. And working with leaders, Help them really be their best. So the name of my particular coaching program [00:04:00] is called uncover your brilliant.

And I really want to help people maximize their productivity and their focus and work in their area of strength, which I like to call their superpower because when we're working in our super power, it's amazing. And I know from personal experience, when I try to step out of that and do something that is not really a good fit for me, I get myself in trouble.

And I can tell you a couple of stories if you want, but I think most people can relate to that. If they've done any kind of professional development, any kind of assessment, I've worked with a number of different assessment tools over the years, U S use a couple in my practice to help people if they don't know what those are to hone in on them.

sure. Really maximize that because to me, that's what it's all about. If I can spend most of my day, 80% of my day. Working in my area of genius, I can serve so many other [00:05:00] people. This is true of anybody. And really move the ball forward as opposed to getting stuck, being anxious, being uncertain, telling myself all kinds of stories that are not true.

Yeah.

Matt: [00:05:14] I think a lot of people can get caught up in that. so I'm curious about two things, really. one. I know your background as HR and you were there a long time. How do you go from this HR people development, people help side to your coaching practice or, you know what you're doing now?

First question. So I'll let you answer that one. And then I have a secondary question.

Leslie: [00:05:37] it's really what I've always done, Matt. I've just done it for my employers in working with people. because if anybody listening to this podcast is in HR, that the call comes or the knock on the door comes and here's my issue.

Here's my problem. Help me solve it. And sometimes people just want to complain. Sometimes they don't want a solution. but more [00:06:00] often than not, people just are not sure what a good next step is. And I felt like I've always been really skilled at helping them uncover that next step and move forward.

Matt: [00:06:12] Fantastic. great answer. And I love the fact that you can't always solve it, right? You can't always fix the things that come into your door, which sort of leads to my second piece. And that is, so you talked a little bit about helping people uncover their super power. So let's uncover that a little bit.

Let's talk about what that might look like in a situation, for someone who doesn't have a clue.

Leslie: [00:06:34] I like to think of it as four different. Elements if you will, or if you, I'm going to try to draw a picture in your mind. So if you think of, a vertical line and that's a pace line, and at the top of that pace is fast and the bottom is slow and we all fall somewhere along that continuum.

And it doesn't mean it's right or wrong and it doesn't mean it's better or best. We just have a preference. [00:07:00] Then you intersect that with a horizontal line that represents our focus. And some people really like to focus on the work or what I call the task, the job, and others like to focus on the people that are involved in the job.

So you end up with four quadrants. So we've got directing, connecting, supporting, and analyzing. So people who have the super power of directing are really focused on moving things forward, making decisions, rallying the troops, if you will. And getting projects accomplished. they want to know high level details and to get decisions made and make things happen.

Connectors on the other hand are again, faster paced, but they're more focused on the people's side. And so they're more interested in who I'm working with and how can we help each other? How can we, have fun? [00:08:00] but B they're enthusiastic they're cheerleaders. They can be accused. this is my super power, of not focusing on the detail.

And it's not that we can't, it's just hard. And

Matt: [00:08:14] I think I'm a connector. I think that's me,

Leslie: [00:08:17] supporters on the other hand are people focused, but they're a little bit slower pace. And focus. Our supporters are really good listeners and they're able to help somebody sort things out. And they're very supportive of other people and really concerned that people are heard and that people have a voice.

And so their supporters and then analyzers, and I have calm Matt to appreciate the analyzers in my life. I know I need catalyzers as much as we are different because. Slower pace, more focused on the task. Really want to dig down into those details and sometimes have their challenges analysis [00:09:00] paralysis, because they read too much information to make a decision, but they are so powerful when it comes to that quality piece and making sure that everything is absolutely right.

before we move forward. So as you can see, if we have a team, all of those elements are important, but when it's on my own, I want to be really clear about what I do well, what my genius is, super power, strength, whatever you want to call it. And then surround myself with people who can come alongside me and help me be the best I can be.

Matt: [00:09:38] That's a really well put the surrounding part, the making sure that you're touching into everything that's out there, all of the pieces, all four quadrants to make sure that you're building a team together.

Leslie: [00:09:47] Yes. And when we ignore one, that's where we get in trouble. So I know that for my, when I try to do things on my own or when I ignore it, I just struggle and really get myself in [00:10:00] trouble.

Matt: [00:10:00] I consider that I can see that for sure. Do would you say there's a lot of companies out there, a lot of maybe teams that are being managed that are going through the day-to-day steps of trying to do self-improvement and people development and all of those things that don't know that what pieces are missing, they don't know that they're missing a certain superpower.

Leslie: [00:10:20] Yeah. I think that's true. or they discount it because they be the leader. Knows where they're strong or feels that they're right. I think that's the other trap we get into is, and when I said there's no better, best, there's no right or wrong. I truly believe that because I need other people that don't have my strengths to help me be the best I can be, but help my team help my organization.

So if a leader ignores that they can really get themselves in trouble. And that's why people leave. When they feel ignored when they feel discounted, when they don't feel like they have [00:11:00] a voice, we lose our best talent.

Matt: [00:11:04] Yeah. And a lot of companies are doing that right now. There are a lot of companies are losing good people, even in the market we're in now, which is crazy.

So the question secondary piece to this, which I was going to ask earlier is when in fact someone realizes they need your help. They're like, this is the help I need. How do they start? Where do they begin?

Leslie: [00:11:24] So they can begin in a couple of places on my website. There's a link to my calendar.

And I always say, let's just schedule a conversation because it's going to be hard for me to know if I'm the right fit for you. And if you're the right fit for me, without having a conversation, Daniel and text messages are great tools, but they're terrible for conversation. And they're terrible for decisions.

Matt: [00:11:50] Yes. Yes. And they're terrible for large capital letters. so how do I know that I need, how do I know that I need your help?

Leslie: [00:11:58] one way might [00:12:00] be on a personal level. I'll talk about as an individual leader, when I feel really frustrated or stuck. I get up in the morning and I don't get up right away.

I hit the snooze two or three times because I'm really dreading the day ahead because it's so fraught with drama and turmoil. And I just, I feel like I'm spinning my wheels. I want to, and from a leader perspective of a team, one is when people are leaving. Turnover is a big side or when I'm not hitting my, making my numbers when their metrics are being met, or if I've had to have a lot of coaching conversations about performance when people are just not performing.

And I know this environment is so challenging right now because we're trying to manage people like this, where we used to manage people face to face, and it's easy to, for a couple of things to happen. It's easy for people to get ignored. And if I feel ignored, I'm not going to do my best [00:13:00] work. If I don't feel hurt, I'm not going to be my best work.

And then it's easy to just discount and get into your own zone. And I'm really busy with my stuff. Why do I need to look at my people's stuff? if you lead a team of people, you've got to be there. You've got to be there on the front lines with them and they have to know you have their back. They have got to trust you.

And that's really when there's no trust things

Matt: [00:13:28] fall apart. It's a huge thing. And I think people are realizing more and more that the trust factor had to be somewhat strong going into this, a working situation where we are, we're all remote now. And you really have to either build that back up if you didn't have it, or try to discover how to redo it because it's.

So difficult to connect when you're not in the same space. And, I think a lot of managers are discovering that. So that's really good information to know that if these things are happening, you [00:14:00] have these three pieces, which is you're dreading the day you're losing people or the team's not connected.

And there's no trust. It's really big to understand that maybe you need to go outside and get a source, like you to come in and help. Help them discover a few things that maybe they didn't know before. Yeah. I love that. I guess the next piece that we do here is really find out a story I want, I'd love to hear a story that you have that catapulted you or pushed you, or drove you to be in this space to want to solve some of these problems and these challenges that managers are facing.

Leslie: [00:14:34] I have a heart for that, what I call mid-level manager. And not that senior people can't use what I do because I believe they can. And not that entry-level or people without, with the responsibility of people I can work, but that mid-level manager gets suites. So they get squeezed from the leaders at the top.

They get squeezed from the people that they're leading. And sometimes they [00:15:00] just don't have a place to turn. how could I tell my boss because they're my boss and I'm certainly not going to tell my subordinate because number one, that really crosses a line and number two, I'm just a burden them with more than they need.

They don't need to be worried about me. So I want to be the space or the place. or the person that individual can use as a sounding board for their own professional development, as well as identify how we can help the team, because I have a really strong team, then I can do the things that I, that my organization needs me to do and really maximize our success.

both as a group, the group I supervise, but then the overall organization. And so can you imagine everybody, it's that whole analogy of everybody rowing in the same direction or we're all pulling forward, whatever visualization visual you want to have. [00:16:00] but it's all getting everybody in alignment.

Matt: [00:16:04] did you have a mid-level manager that kind of threw you into that, or it was a bad experience or were you a mid-level manager that struggled to make those

Leslie: [00:16:11] things happen? Manager was probably me because I lucky, luckily, man, I worked, early in my career. I had a great boss. I'm actually, I've had several, but the first boss I had, in an HR role was really a superior and just super guy.

And then, worked for a woman. And she was great too. And then I had a terrible experience, actually got fired and escorted out of the building. You, Leslie got fired for a long

Matt: [00:16:43] time. You're one of the nicest people I've ever

Leslie: [00:16:45] met. so a couple of things, it was a matter of fit in one case, but the other case, it was a matter of, someone who was not willing or interested.

To listen to other people and, felt they knew it [00:17:00] all. And that, yeah, that didn't work well for me, obviously

Matt: [00:17:03] I can imagine that. I can imagine that it's interesting to look at it from the perspective of someone who's been moved out the door to say, I know that I wasn't the right fit.

And on top of that, the manager wasn't a great fit for me either. So I think a lot of times we look at those situations and we say, I know my super power and I did a great job. I did everything I could do. My manager just didn't work with me as opposed to understanding it's it really is both sides to that coin because the relationship side of trust, is about building relationship.

And if you can't get there, then you're never going to have that connection anyway,

Leslie: [00:17:39] and frankly, they're just some people you're just not meant to be a fit with. And the sooner you can realize that. So anybody that's in the interview process at this point in time are looking at other opportunities.

I think that's a key is really saying, can we work well together? Even though we might be opposite. So I mentioned, [00:18:00] I know I need people who are analyzers in my life because in my last role as a team leader, my, office manager. Was an amazing analyzer. And at first we were on a disconnect because of that.

And I realized quickly that, we've got to pull this together because she can be a key piece to my success. And she was, but utilizing each other's strengths and helping her understand that my style and what we both needed out of the relationship. And I know that not everybody's willing to do that.

And unfortunately, there are people who are, narcissists. and that is, a diagnosable term. I worked with enough mental health professionals in my career to know that as a diagnosis and yeah, unless they're willing to get professional help you better cut your losses and move on sooner rather than

Matt: [00:18:50] later.

Yes, absolutely. I think it's a good story to recognize the people that you do have that you have in the past that are good and bad, right? So there's healthy people for you, [00:19:00] and there are unhealthy people for you. Or you as a worker, I have a question. You brought something up and I would just love to ask your professional opinion on this, in this environment right now, where people are looking for candidates and candidates are applying for positions.

How do you get around not being able to interview, to really sit back and go, gosh, I'd love to just show you my personality or show you something else. Besides a piece of paper, how do you help support

Leslie: [00:19:23] those folks? I think there's two times in life when we need to advocate. And one was when we're in here in a hospital.

I won't tell that story, but the other time is when we're looking for a job. So using social media platforms specifically, LinkedIn can be one way to connect with seek to who do I know that might know that person and how can I get to them to recognize me? How can I get a conversation? How can I get a recommendation?

We know from especially business perspective, because we're both business owners, the likelihood of [00:20:00] someone doing say, Hey, you need to work with Matt or you need to work with Leslie that referral, the chances of closing that business are greater. So like when I'm applying for a job, if someone can say, Hey, I know you're looking for someone who can do this kind of work.

Have you thought about contacting? Because I know their experience. I can recommend them. And when we can have somebody personally recommend us, then we are there that much farther ahead. And right now today with social media, I use LinkedIn for business all the time. I also use Facebook. Those are my two platforms, but there's Twitter, there's Instagram, there's all kinds of ways we can connect with other people and ask for their help and, get an introduction.

Matt: [00:20:49] Good. I love it. I love it. I want to make sure that kind, as we wrap this up, you've made some really amazing points and I love the, just the aspect of what you're doing with your practice. tell me a [00:21:00] little bit more. I want to make sure that people know how to get ahold of you if they want to.

So any links, anything like that you want to share?

Leslie: [00:21:06] So my website is coach with leslie.com. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Facebook. So they can reach out to me any of those ways. If they want to schedule a conversation there, my calendar is on my website. They want to take a look at a couple of things.

They can do that. I've got a couple of programs going on right now that people can enroll in and take advantage of some discounts. So on those are, there are, you can find in one of my events on Eventbrite, uncover your brilliance, a roadmap for making 20, 21 your best year ever. And then I've got, through inspired Academy, the three-piece and mastering the difficult conversation, and there's a 10% off through the end.

Fantastic.

Matt: [00:21:54] You have a lot going on and I love this best year 2021 thing. go ahead and share a little bit more about that. [00:22:00] what's the idea behind that?

Leslie: [00:22:01] it's really about creating a roadmap for success, because I feel like too many people again, if we're waking up every day, hitting that snooze dreading the day, just going through the motions, not sure.

I know 20, 20 through everybody in a tailspin, but I believe as I've talked to people that the people who had a solid plan, maybe everything that they planned on didn't come into fruition. But they had a plan and they could pivot and adjust the people who really suffered were the people who just didn't have any clue about what they wanted, where they were gone.

They was just showing up and going through life. And so my program is really about helping people create that roadmap for success. But once it's created, you have to take action. I think it was will Rogers. Who said, even though you're on the right track, you'll get run over. If you just sit there. So we can't just sit there.

We can't wish we can't hope we have to [00:23:00] take action. So I'm about is that you said earlier maximizing your productivity as well as your focus. So we're going to focus on what you want and then we're going to take action to help you get there. Okay.

Matt: [00:23:12] And when is that? When is that conference coming up?

Leslie: [00:23:13] that starts, it's going to be online.

It's it starts January 7th. And they can find the link to, they can search it that bright. If they want to put that at all. It'll also be put on my website so people can take advantage of it there. And if they enroll between now and December 15th, they get a free session with me and they can save, Some money on the enrollment.

That's fantastic.

Matt: [00:23:35] Yeah. We'll definitely get that out there and make sure that it's on the podcast. I'm really appreciate your time today and I'm so grateful to you and you are such a good friend and I want to know too, do you have a wrap up like a little tidbit piece that sort of ties this thing in a nice bow and makes everybody realize that, you've got a great program and a great,

Leslie: [00:23:53] coaching.

thanks man. I appreciate that. But the one thing that comes to mind is. We are sometimes our [00:24:00] own worst enemy. And if we can just stop and step back. So one of the things I always encouraged people to do is when you're feeling that anxious or where you're feeling stuck, or you're really uncertain, is to take a step back and do some breathing exercises and just focusing on your breath for a few minutes.

And there's a number of ways. There's a number of tools. if people want to go out on YouTube and. Google diaphragmatic breathing. That's a thing they could do, but simply breathing in the color blue and out the color red blue is as a calming effect and red can represent stress. So breathing in calm, breathing out stress, set a timer for 60 seconds or two minutes.

Really just changing your state. And help move you forward. And so you do that two or three times a day, or you do it when you're [00:25:00] feeling anxious and upset or when you're no, you're not taking action and you need to, I love

Matt: [00:25:05] it. Thank you so much. So great to see ya. And, again, Leslie for your Enzo and she owns her company is called coaching with Leslie and the conference coming up in January

Leslie: [00:25:17] is called.

I can cover your brilliance

Matt: [00:25:21] and cover your brilliance. Is there next one coming up and, looking forward to seeing what that's about and hopefully it getting signed up as well. So thank you for your time.

Leslie: [00:25:29] Thank you.

View Details

Heather Marquez joins us to talk about why keeping true to your core values during change is necessary and important for keeping your company on track. Not only is she passionate about making sure teams are on track but also doing change better. Change can be hard and we know that.

Where you can find Heather:

• Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/heathermarquez/
• Her Website: https://actioncoach.com/

Full Transcription below (may contain typos...):

[00:00:00] Heather: [00:00:00] we took the team who was in a lot of conflict and strife. We identified some of the core values that the company had. the values that the team felt were very broken. And we did a 10 week study on those values where we. Talked about those values. And every week, everybody committed to taking particular actions in favor of living out those values more fully.

and that was about three years ago. And to this day they still, every week post one of the values posters in their office and they rotate it every week and that's continues to be a piece of their language [00:01:00]

Keerstyn: [00:01:00] welcome Heather Marquez. do you want to give us a brief bio or intro of how you got into work?

and then what you do now?

Heather: [00:01:09] Sure. so I started my illustrious career as a 16 year old kid in retail, a cashier with a large retailer and, worked in retail for about 25 years, doing a variety of things, including. Leading teams running a $20 million business unit in the last 10 years, I was also in addition to running my store, I'm involved in all of the executive onboarding, all the continuing education for our executives and found that I really had a passion for that.

And so when I decided to make the break from retail, I broke off into creating my own company around leadership development. And then I layered in the business coaching side of things because leadership development is a passion, but it wasn't really utilizing all of my skills [00:02:00] around operations, things like that.

So now I. Work with leaders, business owners and their teams, and help them really maximize the potential of their teams while protecting the vision of their organization and making better decisions to move in the direction of that vision. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:02:19] absolutely. Absolutely. So when your clients come to you, what are some of those things that they are struggling with in terms of whether it's the operation side or the leadership side?

What does that look like?

Heather: [00:02:32] it really comes down to three categories, time team or money, pretty much everything can fall into one of those categories. And that's really where we spend a lot of our time on depending on where they're at with things in their business. Okay.

Keerstyn: [00:02:48] Cool. And then what are some of those things that you bring them to?

Those almost like heaven spots, where they are thriving and not struggling anymore. What are some of those and how do you get them

Heather: [00:02:58] there? [00:03:00] Yeah. one of the things that I love about what I get to do every day is I have a variety of certifications. And resources and tools that I use, to really customize solutions for the business owners I work with.

And although we really start by creating a strong foundation with getting really clear on their vision, where is it that they're going, what do they want out of their company? The ultimate goal is to work towards a commercial profitable enterprise that. Works without them. and so a lot of that is really just digging in and helping them get clear on, for example, we'll take the time aspect, where are they spending their time?

How are they utilizing it? And what are the things that are really requiring their skill versus others. And that tends to lead us quite a bit into the team side of it, because what I often find is there are business owners out there that love what they do, And they love the hands-on part, but the higher [00:04:00] level leading the organization, dealing with the operations isn't necessarily what they went to school for or what they were passionate about.

And so that's out of their comfort zone, first of all. So they tend to go back into the things they're comfortable with, but two, they haven't learned to delegate well enough and in an appropriate manner so that it empowers their team to take things off their plate so that they can really spend time working.

On the business versus in the business. And, at the end of the day, it's really about helping that business owner get back to the reason that they started their business to begin with and then have time for the hobbies that they've probably forgotten they even had. and in time for their family, I don't necessarily think that there's such a thing as the perfect balance.

Between work and life. I think we all have instances where something is required of us. In a manner that we have to spend more time on one versus the other, but it's a matter of having whole life balance. And [00:05:00] when I work with business owners, we really focus on getting them to a place where they can feel good about taking the weekend off and spending it with their family or being done in 40 hours a week.

Versus the belief that a lot of business owners hold of. If I'm not working 60 or 70 hours, then I must not be a good business owner. That's not what it's about. It's about. Tapping into your team and building a team that can help you so that you don't have to be working that. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:05:28] absolutely. Absolutely.

so one thing that I want to jump into is can you talk a little bit more about those certifications and those different tools that you bring to the table in terms of helping these people build up solutions, to be able to have that 40 hour work week and of that 60 hour work week or. being able to spend time with their families.

What does that look

Heather: [00:05:47] like for you? Yeah. part of it starts with an assessment of where they're at, and assessing their team. So I use a lot of assessments around discs, Mo disc motivators, [00:06:00] values, emotional intelligence, those kinds of things. And then we have a really cool tool called the performance gap indicator, where we can measure where an organization is on five.

Nonfinancial key performance indicators. And once we get a level base of where we things out, we can start to hammer out the vision. And part of that is addressing what pops up with the assessments. So if the vision is to have this high performing team, that's getting along and there's reduced conflict, then we go back to the assessments and we start educating the team on things like.

Communication and personality styles. What does that mean to work well together? And how do you communicate in a way that you're heard? it might be having a team that is transitioning from managers to leaders, and there's a lot of different leadership tools that I would use in that case. and one of the things that I do, that's really the most.

Fun I think is we start off doing a planning and strategy [00:07:00] session where we do just a big brain dump. And so I'm a certified mind map instructor and, that's a tool where you can use it for creativity planning, just doing a brain dump, thinking through things. When I'm giving a speech, I plan all of my speeches and workshops using a mind map.

And, that allows us to see everything in the owner's head and then to prioritize all of that and then start to break it down into 90 day sprints or increments so that we can start to tackle those things. So a lot of different tools. But disk mind mapping. my John Maxwell team leadership certification, those are some of the things that I bucket under the solutions part of helping a business owner move from their current state to where they.

Desire to be.

Keerstyn: [00:07:48] Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. That's awesome. You want to tell a story about how a company has gotten to that place of success and how that business owner has benefited from, [00:08:00] these tools and actionable items that you provide them?

Heather: [00:08:05] yeah. Gosh, there's so many different. Pieces for so many different businesses.

so just a couple of examples. I was brought into an organization that had been around for, almost 40 years at that point. And the owner was looking at selling. The company, but he knew that they had some pieces that they really needed to do differently in order to maximize the value of the company.

And part of it was implementing software that they had been paying for six years, but had never gotten to really implement. And take hold. And it was software that right now in their industry is really crucial for the value of the business. And so what we were able to do was create a strategy and an action plan with semantic accountability pieces in it.

And we actually implemented that software in five months. Versus the six years they had been trying and [00:09:00] now it's up and running. It works well. Everybody's embracing it. They're constantly tweaking it and finding ways to make it even better, but they don't even remember what it was like to not have the software now.

And so it was a really cool transition point because this had been a pain point for them. For a really long time. And it was also causing the leader to lose some credibility with the team because they kept saying this is important. Let's do it. And the initiative would break down and fall apart before it really got up and running and they, multiple times.

And so by the end of implementing it got back that credibility for the leader. And then it also added in the valuation of the business. another instance around leadership development. Is, we took a team that had multiple locations, geographical locations. They were a pretty young organization under 10 years, but they had grown exponentially fast.

the concept was really a [00:10:00] really cool concept and it just exploded. And so they just started bringing in people and promoting people. And what the leader eventually identified was that she had a lot of managers, but no leaders. So we took them through a 10 week curriculum on developing their leadership skills.

And by the end of it, the owner of the company said that for the first time, In the history of her organization, her managers were leaders. They were making decisions that were best for the organization. Best for their teams. They respected each other more. They respect their teams, respected them more, and it actually made her life a lot easier because they were so much more empowered to.

Stand up and be the leaders that she knew they were capable of. She just didn't necessarily know how to get them from point a to point B. so it's a lot of things like that. another organization, we actually worked on the values of the organization where we did. [00:11:00] Values-based leadership round tables.

And we took the team who was in a lot of conflict and strife. We identified some of the core values that the company had. the values that the team felt were very broken. And we did a 10 week study on those values where we. Talked about those values. And every week, everybody committed to taking particular actions in favor of living out those values more fully.

and that was about three years ago. And to this day they still, every week post one of the values posters in their office and they rotate it every week and that's continues to be a piece of their language. and that same company. Really exciting for, for me and them, they actually over the last.

Three years of us working together have had their best financial year in collections that they've had in four years. And even going through the current state of COVID-19, we were able to navigate everything in a way that even though [00:12:00] they're there. Client numbers were very down their billing and collections weren't as impacted because we had impacted their processes, in a different way, leading up to that.

And it was so much more efficient for them and they were actually getting paid, and didn't have so much outstanding. So it was really cool to see them reap the benefits of that during the COVID-19 crisis. Absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:12:24] That's awesome. I am very grateful that you just explained those three stories. That was great.

I want to jump into that COVID-19 thing a little bit. So how have you seen the marketplace shift with this? COVID-19 have you seen people go back to their, their, before States of working with you? Or what does that look like for your current client base?

Heather: [00:12:45] wow. That's such a great question.

I don't know that I have a short answer for that, but what I will say is very early on, I realized that with the organizations that I'm, affiliated with the certifications I have, [00:13:00] I realized that I had a lot of tools and resources to help business owners through. This event more successfully than what they would be able to do on their own.

And in total transparency, that was a really heavy weight to carry because I hadn't up until that point understood the depth of my responsibility to be reaching out and supporting business owners. In a more massive way. And so with that, I committed to five hours of pro bono coaching, for non-clients a week, five hours of open office time a week for non-clients or clients to just jump in on a zoom meeting.

and then also doing educational webinars. Free educational webinars, just trying to help businesses see the light at the end of the tunnel, help them initially prepare for what was coming and then help them navigate the waters as they [00:14:00] went, because the goal is to help them be better when they come out of it than they were going into it.

If we don't learn something out of this, then it was really off or not. And so for me, The impact I saw, I had, some business owners that, because they were in those industries that completely closed down, they had no income coming in. And they, we just had to waive their fees because there was still work to be done, even though they were closed.

there were still things to make happen. There were still marketing to be done. There was still. A lot of mindset, stuff and emotion that they needed support working through. So I saw, that hit with. Clients not being able to necessarily pay to work with me at that point. and then I also saw on the flip side, whether they were in that state or still open, there was a need for more conversations, more support, more.

Frequent touches. And so I ended up about doubling my [00:15:00] time with each of my clients and some of them, we just agreed that we were just going to work through it and do the right thing, no matter what. And we pick up the billing once they get open and it was all good. And, for a lot of them, it was really helping them through the emotional and mental.

Struggles because there's a lot of head trash that happens in a situation like we've been going through, but then also taking some of that out of each of the situations and looking at it with logic, looking at it in a planful manner, because I saw businesses go into this, there's the fight flight or freeze response that we're all programmed as human beings to have.

And so some businesses. Just froze. Like they just stopped everything. They froze and nothing changed, and they're probably not going to be reopening other businesses. They took flight and they went home and they buried their head underneath the covers and binged on [00:16:00] Netflix. And then there were those businesses who decided to fight for their business, which was really cool.

But what we saw was they were. Confusing busy-ness with business. So they were getting in a flurry of activity and they were feeling good because they were taking action, but it wasn't necessarily purposeful action. It wasn't the right action. And so there started to be an increased amount of burnout going on with these businesses.

And the important thing that I did with the business owners that I work with is we stepped in and we hit the pause button, And we planned, we created a really strategic plan and talk through all the moving parts so that their time and energy could be focused on the right things. Instead of them feeling like even though they were closed, maybe they were working 50, 60 hours, but it wasn't the stuff that was going to help them when we opened it.

So it's been a really interesting. Time of seeing those shifts in businesses, helping them be really intentional, being that trusted [00:17:00] advisor, sharing educational points with them, helping them think through the strategy. and then, in one case just. Reminding them of all the resources they do have when they get stuck, because there are a lot of resources out there.

we just sometimes get into a different context, much like our kids who are, homeschooling. Now when they're in school, they get that they have all these resources, but you take them out of that environment and you put them at home and they forget that there's such a thing as Google or, a book on the bookshelf that will answer their problems.

They just, all of a sudden glaze over. That's what we saw with some business owners is that different contexts that they were having to live in, made them forget some of the things they had. And so a lot of it was just reminding them that they are resourced and helping connect them with other resources, if need be.

Keerstyn: [00:17:50] Yeah, absolutely. That was a wonderful response. And then the other question I did have about the COVID-19 thing is are you seeing managers coaching their employees to [00:18:00] make them better? oftentimes you're probably working with the higher, the higher up people helping them plan and process what their business is going to look like.

but how are these business owners then going to their employees and helping them understand what the next steps look like for them and how. What does work look like after this? what does that look like for a year clients currently?

Heather: [00:18:23] there's been a lot of conversation with my clients, about their teams.

And part of it is just helping them as leaders understand their roles and responsibilities during this time. So first of all, they have to be great communicators and they have to be positive in their communication. they're the hope dealers right now. And it's up to them to make sure that their teams are.

Going and surviving and thriving through this. So we've talked about a lot of different strategies around, using coaching skills. So asking better questions, digging deeper. There's been a lot of conversations around what it looks like [00:19:00] to work with remote teams. so I have a webinar on virtual leadership.

That, we put together because that's a big thing out there. More people are having to lead in a different way. And when you're in a remote situation, you don't have the ability to see the body language so much. You don't have the day-to-day interaction where you're just walking by somebody and you can just.

Feel that something's a little off, that's all gone. And so we've been encouraging a lot of things. Like what I like to call we care calls, just picking up the phone and calling somebody on your team for no reason, no agenda. Other than to say, how you holding up. What's going on in your life. What can I do for you?

How can I add value? What do you need from me? What resources can I provide for you just being there for them. So lots of those conversations, and then also reminding them that just because they're remote doesn't mean they can't recognize [00:20:00] and making sure that recognition is meaningful, meaning. If somebody likes public recognition, then giving them that recognition on the virtual call in front of the team.

But there are those people who cringe at that. So maybe it's dropping a quick, thank you note in the mail and sending it to them to help them understand that they are valued. Those are really the key components. And then I do work with some of my clients and their leaders teaching them. How do you use coaching skills for their teams?

And through that training, then they're equipped to actually have a better conversation and ask questions versus always directing and there's appropriate times to direct or ask questions. But that in itself is another training that we do in order to help them under stand and identify. When is the right time that they should give direction and when's the right time to ask questions and help people find their own answers.

And it's a really delicate balance as a leader. but it's crucial. And if [00:21:00] you can do it and match your leadership style appropriately. You will raise your employee engagement numbers, better than with, just about anything else. And that is a really important thing to keep in mind right now. So many people are fearful of their jobs, fearful of what's going to happen next.

that. We as leaders have to be responding and acknowledging those fears, and maybe they do get redeployed to a different job or a different job function because we find that it's better in the organization, but if there's a way that we can keep them and we can take good care of them, we really need to make sure that we're exploring all avenues of that as leaders.

So those have been a lot of the conversations. And then again, there's just a lot of. Training that builds those skills because those are all coaching and identifying somebody's skillset. That's all trainable, but it is a skill that requires some knowledge, some training around [00:22:00] to be able to do it well.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:22:02] absolutely. Awesome. Thank you for that. That was really helpful to understand more about what you have been seeing in the workplace. Absolutely awesome. Heather. if people want to get in touch with you, where can they find you currently?

Heather: [00:22:17] So they can visit my website at www dot action coach. Oh, I'm sorry.

My gosh. I was thinking of something else. Www dot Heather Marquez. Dot actioncoach.com and then I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. So they can find me on the social media channels as well. and the company is usually listed under action. Action, coach mine links because action coach is a global organization.

So if they just look up action, coach, you might get a few other things in there. Okay.

Keerstyn: [00:22:53] Sounds good. Thank you so much. This was

Heather: [00:22:55] so fun. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

View Details

Matt joins us on the podcast to talk about why we need to find our 'fits' in our team, position, management skills, and culture. Not only do we foster these to create psychological safety, but we do this so that we actually thrive in our workplace. Matt gives ways to find you fit, what to do with this information, how to embrace your team with this, and so much more.

Where to find Matt:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattley/
His Website: https://flipthescript.io
His Email: matt@flipthesccript.io

Full transcription below: (May contain typos...)

Matt: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] sure. so where companies might struggle with the psychological safety is that the feedback loops that kind of need to be built in, throughout the process, saying, Hey, we're. we're diverse. We can measure that it's a metric, it's a quantitative, but the qualitative piece of how do people feel about it, which is that next step into actual inclusion, which is the bedrock of starting any psychological safety.

Keerstyn: [00:00:52] welcome to the podcast, Matt. We're really excited that you're here today to talk a little bit more about what you do and who you are.

Could you please give just like a brief [00:01:00] intro of what you're involved in these days and how you got involved with

Matt: [00:01:04] it?

Sure. my name's Matt Lee, I've worked, for flip the script, coaching consulting actually own it. we're really focused on helping leaders in transition. it's gained confidence and clarity on what they're doing. so that's both through coaching and consulting. As the name says, organizations working on employee engagement, individuals working on that sense of purpose and alignment with that purpose.

Keerstyn: [00:01:32] Yeah. Interesting. So what are some of those pains that oftentimes your clients come to you with? are they really struggling in the employee engagement side or are they just at a loss for what is the problem? And they're just struggling to get over this weird issue that they don't really know what is

Matt: [00:01:50] yeah.

So on the, organizational side, a lot of it is your. They're coming with the symptoms and they're trying to figure out how can we address these? And a lot [00:02:00] of those symptoms come up with either a high turnover rates. That's a pretty big one. and also just employee engagement. If they actually have those surveys, like the scores are low, we just don't understand.

Sometimes it's a. we just went through a catastrophic event, which could be a positive, catastrophic event, like a product launch went awesome. And now we're in the last two years, three times larger than we were before. We didn't know. We just kept promoting people from within and all of a sudden we're at this point where we've got people in roles that don't necessarily align, or we just had to, we purchased another company.

So it's a merger acquisition, or possibly because of. The market we've shrunk in size, and we're trying to figure out where people fit now because everyone's been wearing multiple hats. And so that's, those are a lot of the symptoms that are pretty common, or just you've been doing it for a long period of time.

And people are looking for either a fresh start or they've lost that sense of their why. so coming in and looking at. Yeah. What are the [00:03:00] PhETs than the forfeits that we normally look for are the fit of job? Is the individual aligned with the role that they're doing a fit of the manager at? Does the person managing, have a good sense of the skills needed to do that in general?

And for the specific person team fit team dynamics and then culture fit, has the organization potentially shifted or is the culture. Implicit and not explicit. And so we're missing some alignment. So that's on the organizational side. That's how it works.

Keerstyn: [00:03:31] Yeah, absolutely. That's really interesting. I'm glad that you mentioned those four fits because I think that's a really vital thing that people don't realize that there could be a miscommunication or a problem between one of those fits and you might fit into one bubble, but you might not fit into another.

What are some of the things that, you kind of prescribe or, help with when it comes to that job fit? What. What are some of those things that you do to get them through that and to get them aligned back with their job and aligned [00:04:00] with their why?

Matt: [00:04:02] Sure. one of the biggest ones that, and I think fairly easy is that finding a tool that has a good behavioral assessment match.

and so if you can get a good behavioral assessment, Job target. and the tool that I use most frequently is predictive index. Cause I think it's just a great framework for talent optimization. but there's others there out there. People use Enneagrams or Myers, Briggs. They can do some of that, work or your five voices.

but if you can make a fit between what the job, as a role needs. And then the individuals who were either in those roles or applying for those roles, that's one of your biggest indicators of job success. Like you can also go cognitive people do wonder like a predictive index also has a cognitive assessments.

It's very similar to wonder. but those are good for jobs success to start out that doesn't move beyond just the job. it doesn't help with the management or the team dynamics. So I really rely on the behavioral [00:05:00] assessment piece. And then when you talk about that why that becomes part of the.

talk the talk and walk the walk and then, make sure you're not walking in circles because I think that third piece is where organizations miss it on culture is figuring out what your culture is, make it explicit. and then on the level of, culture, it's the, the walk, the, walk, the talk, the talk, walk the walk, and then make sure you're walking, not in circles.

And then the talk is making your culture explicit, not implicit. So make sure it's out there and people can find it and read about it. Then making sure that your management is actually living that out. That's walking the walk, and that needs to be something that's done consistently so that people can also see it.

And then having a make sure you're not walking in circles is what are the metrics and measurements. And one of the big ones is. The just employee engagement survey, and you can use a generic ones that come with, packages like predictive index has one, or else you can get very specific to your [00:06:00] specific cultural pillars and align and see what that looks like.

You can work with organizations. I think a fast mirror is one that you can create specific to your particular business engagement surveys.

Keerstyn: [00:06:14] Yeah, absolutely. What should people be looking for in these engagement surveys? I feel like there's 1,000,001 things out there, and you can ask 1,000,001 questions about anything to your employees, but what are some of those specific, either questions or items or even concepts that we really should be asking to our employees?

Matt: [00:06:35] Yeah. And it'll boil back down to the forfeits. that's a good question of engagement of high feel. I understand the direction of the company that might speak to your fit with the culture with the organization. I feel that my voice is heard, or I feel that my position matters in the way the business carries things out.

I feel that I can [00:07:00] take, issues. To my manager to talk about them. And so looking kind of thinking of the forfeits, what are the temperate types of questions that would feel like things are in alignment, and then asking around those.

Keerstyn: [00:07:12] Yeah, that's really interesting. I'm glad that you, the field questions too, because I think those open up a March much larger conversation than just how's it going kind of thing.

what are some of the things that. People in companies should be looking for when it comes to the team fit. so I know that you mentioned culture and then also just simply the job, but the team has a lot of culture within, that is, can be challenging and yeah. What would be your recommendations for those.

Matt: [00:07:43] I would start with psychological safety. That's a big key and my recommendation within that realm, because I think it's pretty actionable is there's the four stages of psychological safety, an organization called leader factor, Timothy R. Clark. Wrote a book called the [00:08:00] four stages of psychological safety that look into that where it's, you start with inclusion safety, then it's learner safety, contributor, safety, and then challenge your safety.

And it's the move from your ability to feel like you're a part of it. And cause I like that you highlighted field because inclusion is a relationship. We both have to create the space for people to feel included and then they also have to feel a safety to accept. That invitation, it's a two-part piece.

So if someone's I don't feel safe except something the invitation, and we're not truly being inclusive, which is the first step. If that's psychological safety, then it's the ability to do. I feel like I can learn in this is a safe place to learn. And then is it a safe place to contribute? And then is it a safe place to challenge the status quo?

Which then can move us into the realm of innovation, which is what's going to be the continued growth of any team or business. So on the team space, which I think is the key unit for psychological safety, because it exists there. It permeates out from there.

Keerstyn: [00:08:58] Yeah. [00:09:00] When you look at teams and companies, where do you feel like they fall down in this psychological safety, cycle?

when I think about it, I might think about like the contribution or even the challenge stage being a really hard one to just simply get over to that innovation. What has been your experience,

Matt: [00:09:16] sure. so where companies might struggle with the psychological safety is that the feedback loops that kind of need to be built in, throughout the process, saying, Hey, we're. we're diverse. We can measure that it's a metric, it's a quantitative, but the qualitative piece of how do people feel about it, which is that next step into actual inclusion, which is the bedrock of starting any psychological safety.

If you don't have the feedback loops built in, that's where people are, we're putting out there, but we're not getting the feedback. And then as you move into learner, Is it actually helping people learn as it's contributor. How do people know? Like how do you define success within your role? How do you define success on your team?

How do we measure that? And how often do we actually give people updates on [00:10:00] that success? Is it once a year on an annual review? Is it once a quarter when the numbers come out for if we've made money or not made money? what, or how do people know as often as possible and the iterative cycle that they're being successful in their contribution?

And then how do you let people know if they challenge the status quo and move forward that's a safe space and that needs to be a lot of culture, similar to culture. It's an accountability of leadership to mirror that and live that out and embody that for people to show that it's okay to challenge, to allow themselves to be challenged.

So it's that feedback loop and creating that space. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:10:37] absolutely. I really liked the, thing that you mentioned about consistently having people know where they are. I think oftentimes companies will come up with their, quarterly numbers or, their annual numbers and then you sit there and you're like, what could we.

Could have done to that number. That actually isn't great. I guess what is some of your ideas around how often should these [00:11:00] numbers be displayed? how should we be doing these feedback loops better? Is that through conversations with a one-on-one with your team with each employee, is that, through team meetings?

I think sometimes companies lack the ability to do that, but then also know how to do that well and perfect professional and productively.

Matt: [00:11:21] Yeah. I'd say the two things that you should be having a weekly check in with each of your direct reports. And if you have more than. I would say, specifically like in a management organizational, like office space.

Seven direct reports. You're stepping beyond your sphere of influence of being intentionally involved with people. And that's just to create the space to listen. And those are mostly just listening sessions of where people at what's happening on the ground, so that you, as the manager and people leader, ideally.

Can make the more tactical strategic decision. So that's part of helping people feel successful is understanding the situation [00:12:00] and then having at the very least one, ideally three or so quantifiable metrics that define success, whether it's collecting information or a particular number that your team drives towards, whether it be revenue driven or production driven and finding ways to make that as efficient as possible to make available.

Pretty much in real time. I would invest a significant amount of effort in my opinion, when I'm doing that, to make that thing almost push button, that was very much worth it to allow people to have that access.

Keerstyn: [00:12:37] Yeah, absolutely. I really liked both of those. And I think that one-on-ones or weekly check-ins are so important, but oftentimes people don't feel like they, are either a value be of, Like the time that you have to put into it is just not there.

Or you don't have that. How, what are some things that you would encourage people to do to start having those [00:13:00] conversations? Is it a 15 minute conversation? What does those weekly check-ins look like?

Matt: [00:13:05] that's a really good question. And it pulls up a really important distinction, I think for a lot of people, especially as you move into management for the first time, because if you think of it, normally what happens is someone's an individual contributor.

They are successful at their individual contributor job. They show some signs of leadership, which is the ability to move people from point a to point B,

but to be successful in their role like, Oh, next step is, this is clearly going to be a manager. so we move into a management role and we lose in that process. The two things, one, the understanding that this skill sets that make us successful as managers are different. Every single time from the skills that made us successful as an individual contributor.

And that second piece is you no longer create direct value as a manager. Your job is to create the environment for other people to multiply their value. And managers can actually be a positive or a negative multiplier, but if you were spending all of your time [00:14:00] doing individual contributor work so that you're creating direct value for the company, and that's why you're too busy to have time to meet with your people.

You're advocating. Your responsibilities as a manager. And sometimes the company actually asks us to do that. They're like, okay, you're a manager of people, but really you're a high level, individual contributor with this extra hat that you wear. I think we need to work with companies. And that's what I do to allow their managers that space, because if you're in a management role and you're spending less than 30% of your time, people managing.

You're really an individual contributor that's being asked to wear a second hat. and so if you're not, if you're doing that would be my first check gut check as a manager. How much of my time, if I'm being honest, do I spend doing individual direct value creation and how much of it do I do creating space and a proper environment for the people who are creating the value?

once you've done that, then I think 15 minute check-ins, Probably or enough, I would schedule them for 20 to 30 [00:15:00] minutes to try and keep them on point. And if you don't need the time, give it yeah. Back. It's really to check in and it's there for the person so that they can tell you what's happening on the ground.

So you can make better tactical and strategic decisions.

Keerstyn: [00:15:11] Yeah. I really like what you said there about first off, the making sure your time and you're prioritizing your time because I think oftentimes we struggled to prioritize. What's actually important. we do the things that are not necessarily.

Easy per se, but, are the closest to, what we believe is important, even though they might be, a want, but not a current need. and then the other thing I really liked what you said there is that, They shouldn't be wearing that individual contributor hat along with the manager hat. and I know that companies oftentimes do that and that can be, it's really challenging.

I'm really glad that you help companies with that. What are some of those things that you do, start doing in companies to help them get away from, the individual contributor with the hat of the manager to, [00:16:00] a manager that helps inspire individual contributors.

Matt: [00:16:05] two of the things are, I think the biggest blocks to start with are that it's recognizing that's what management does.

And it, a quick analogy I just use with people is if you're in your business, you don't go out and say, Hey, we have eight layers of management. The competitor has five layers of management. You should hire us. no one sells the levels of management they have, because it's not a value add. So you need to recognize what is it that about a manager does.

It creates a better space for people to do their work. then you need to know, understand two things. What type of work are people doing then that becomes process efficiency. Management is about status quo, efficiency, structure, standardization. And so how do you help people do their jobs better? in the either providing the tools, providing the knowledge, providing the process.

so figuring out where their gaps to help make things more efficient. So that'll help people be better at producing their work and then to. [00:17:00] How do you understand people? Portion of people management that's where things like behavioral assessments and understanding people's drives and motivators becomes an exceptionally useful tool.

So if you understand that your person likes to receive praise in a particular way, they don't like to be put up on the board. They would just rather have a handwritten thank you note, understanding how people like to be. Taking care of, what they truly value in the work that they do. Those that's what comes through the conversations and getting to know them.

And the behavioral assessments can help speed that process up by giving you a starting point. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:17:36] I really like what you said there. And I think it's really important that people realize that some of their employees might not either a communicate like them or, be accept praise, like thumb or see even work like them.

And I think that's what makes teams really valuable and really important, which is why obviously we have teams. but it can be hard to understand that people are not [00:18:00] identical to us, which can be a big hump. And I'm sure that you experienced that time after time. Absolutely. That's really interesting.

I love that. so I guess that being said the final kind of stage of the forfeits. that we have talked about or the job culture team. How about manager? What would you say about that fit? Yeah,

Matt: [00:18:19] that's a high level idealized future that it will take a long time to get to. We need to create better opportunities for individual contributors to contribute at higher levels that doesn't involve moves into management, in a business, you'll have technical skills and experience. That's your individual contributor work and you'll have people skills and experience.

That's your management level work. I enjoy working with companies that see those as two separate pillars and not a, you go up the individual contributor until you're successful there. And then you move over into management, which is the sensei you've been really great as a sports player at baseball.

So why would you be a really great sports player at [00:19:00] basketball? I get they're both sports. What differences make it still, activities. And so it's asking people to move into almost a totally different realm. And so allowing people to space to recognize. What expertise looks like and these two spaces.

And because sometimes you're. It's not great individual contributors. Oh. While this person isn't really making their numbers on the sales team, I can't move them into, the management because they just haven't proven themselves in the field. They may actually be your best manager because it's a different skill set.

So finding ways to assess management skills versus individual contributor skills, and then creating clear different pathways, allowing people to move in between the two. but yeah, the example on individual contemporary usually have an associate. Let's say analyst than an analyst, senior analyst, and then you're capped, that's it?

You can't go much beyond that. So if you want more influence and more financial freedom in your own pocket book, you got to move into management. what would it look like if you were a liaison that helped two different departments connect in the [00:20:00] work that they're doing, or you own all of the processes within your particular sphere, you could still impact the business at a much higher level.

And so being creative about how we think about individual contributors. It's a big piece and then creating standardized language and cohorts for managers. As they move into management for the first time. that would be, when that's done well, it can revolutionize and transform an organization because I describe it a lot.

Like parenting, you could have a PhD in child psychology. You do not under the psychology of a child as a parent, until you actually have children. It's a very different thing to psychologically, emotionally feel than to like technically study. And management's the same way you can have an MBA from a prestigious organization or university.

When you actually have to move into that role, it's a very different beast. And especially if you think you've got all the experience, it's much harder to be vulnerable, which is an exceptionally important thing to be when you move into that management to be accessible in human. [00:21:00] Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:21:00] absolutely. What are some of those traits that, people might have to embody if they are going into those managerial positions and walking away from that individual contributor position?

Matt: [00:21:12] empathetic listening. Like you need to be more of an active listener. someone who's creating space, being a good at. Moderate moderation like of, between individuals as they're talking through pieces, organization or structure, like thinking about how do you organize a meeting, thinking through the steps process.

Thinking strategic thinking, individual contributors very much live at an operational day-to-day and tactical sort of oversight of day-to-day maybe thinking the next week or month, possibly even quarter that's even a stretch. tactical strategic is where management. You're looking at big pictures, you're looking out, not down.

and so you need to be connected to that with your people, but your view changes in the midst of that. And so that's. I'd say those are the big ones is moving to [00:22:00] strategic thinking, being process oriented and then being a good listener, in the midst of what's going on. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:22:06] absolutely. And how do you teach people how to first off, be a good listener, but then also to get away from those, the nitty gritties of the daily work into that monthly or weekly, even big picture look that you might need as a manager, you do need as a manager.

Matt: [00:22:25] so two ways, one I described before having an actual course within your organization to talk about management and be explicit about the differences between management and individual contributor work. talk about those skill sets and then create space for people to just gain. The first step is awareness.

You need to understand that it's there and then you need to practice it. So you need a practice field where you can do that vulnerability piece.

You guys are not. And then once you get into the environment, living out some of that vulnerability with your people, as you talk it through, one of the other parts is, the [00:23:00] direct coaching working with an individual, specifically on what. It makes them tick as a manager. You could still get some of that from behavioral assessments.

Emotional intelligence is a good one. I also really like looking at curiosity, cause I think that's a big part. As you move into innovation, looking at what are your blockers for being curious. And as you're a manager, you have to be at some level curious about the people you work with. so working with assessments and coaching to help people focus on what, because one thing I'll say about that is.

80% of management is transferable people's skills from one company to another one role to another. So wherever you go, 80% of what management is going to be the same 20% will be unique to your environment. But within that 80%, there's still unique challenges and gifts that each of us has. And so being able to dig deeper into those is where coaching comes in to help you fill out that 80%.

Keerstyn: [00:23:52] Yeah. I really like what you said there, that it is 80% transferable and that once you learn, you can start really [00:24:00] actually making things happen wherever you are. and I know that sometimes companies are a bit, Not necessarily nervous, but just what does a business coach since that's a new concept?

although it is a booming industry currently, how do you help these companies get over that weird hump of, is a business coach actually gonna help us? Or is it just going to be another contractor that is mediocre?

Matt: [00:24:25] Yeah. And I would say if we're in a situation like that, it would just. Test and trial like would you would do in any business, ideally is, looking at it as an investment being clear on what's an ROI for you.

And usually it's a better environment for which people work. looking at things like turnover. if you have a manager that's struggling in a particular aspect of their work. Okay. That's what coaching can help with. let's take that person. And do a six week, 12 week, set of sessions and see where we end up on the back end and let the proof be in the pudding because that's that third piece I mentioned about talk the [00:25:00] talk, walk the walk, and then make sure you're not walking in circles.

you gotta have something that you can come back with an ROI. You have to be able to measure at some level, any business decision. Otherwise, you don't know if it was successful moving forward. So I would just say trial it with, give me your hardest person that you're like, they're just never going to get it and let's see how we do.

That's what I would go.

Keerstyn: [00:25:19] so what are some of the ways that you coach on the day to day? obviously you give these people the tools and the resources, to not only figure out their people, but figure out themselves, but, what is. This coaching look like, is it one-on-one conversations between you and the clients? Is it sitting in a conference room and then how do they go out of that coaching and really actually have a sustainment in their business now with the coaching practices that you give them.

Matt: [00:25:47] No, it's a really great question about a very important distinction, which I would say is between coaching and mentoring. and when you're in these like business coaching and it's actually, I think, a hybrid role and the way I describe [00:26:00] it, is I use an analogy like of a boat in aligning to your true North as a sense of your purpose.

So if life is an ocean, each of us has an identity is our boat. So let's say that our identity that we're talking about is this management role that you're in, A mentor helps you navigate that boat. Like they're like, Hey, I've been in this boat before I can help you be awesome at driving this boat through the ocean.

What a coach does. It says, what is your purpose in having this role? What are you trying to accomplish? What are the things you want to get done? And then how do we align ourselves to that? So the coach access the compass. And so when you're, when I'm doing the one-on-one work, it's mostly about that compass work, when I'm coaching and I'm, once in a while, I'll step into the mentoring piece when I have specific parts to bring.

But what coaching kind of does is create the space for the individual to heat, see and hear themselves based on the feedback from assessments, what they're hearing from their direct reports or their management structure.

act that accountability part as they move forward out of it. And just being curious and present with the individual as they move forward. Because a lot of it is [00:27:00] I say this to companies all the time. It's 95 to 99% of your solutions are already here. They just need to be unlocked. And that's what we need to do is create the space to allow that to happen because your people are already your experts.

We just don't have great feedback mechanisms to unlock that type of information. Coaching is one of those pieces. So in all of these problems, the solution's already inherently there. We just need to find it. So that's what coaching helps us do. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:27:27] absolutely. I love that. I think that's really important and I've love that you, you said that 95% of the solutions already there, they're just not present and people don't realize that they have them on.

So what are some links to, your company and yourselves that people can start unlocking these traits and processes that they need to have in their organizations?

Matt: [00:27:48] Sure. So our website is flip the script.io. so you'll find what services we provide up there. A lot of assessments, the consulting work on organizational structure and leadership, and then the particular [00:28:00] coaching and alignment, and then most active on LinkedIn.

So quite a bit of posting about this. So just search for Matt, lay on LinkedIn, and that's where you'll find me. Awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:28:11] thanks so much for being on the podcast today. I learned a ton and I'm sure that our listeners will also learn a ton. Do you have any closing words or parting words before we, leave today?

Matt: [00:28:22] it's a, people take anything away is focusing on the forfeits. Is it just a clear way of looking at it? And then 95 to 99% of the solutions are already there. Part of what coaching and bringing someone in to do is just to help unlock

Keerstyn: [00:28:35] those. Yeah. Awesome. thanks Matt for joining us today.

it was a lot of fun and I'm glad you came on the podcast.

Matt: [00:28:43] Absolutely enjoyed it. Thanks.

View Details

Matt Cunningham joins me on the podcast to chat about what leading with kindness looks like and how we can do it through conversations that actually produce value. Not only are conversations the key aspect of being a great leader, they also produce understanding for one another. Kindness is the key to these conversations though. Without kindness, we as humans lack empathy for our employees, valueable communication, and relationships that produce far greater results.

Find Matt on:

• His website: https://epickindness.com/
• Email him at: matt@epickindness.com

Full transcription below (may contain typos...):
[00:00:00] Matt: [00:00:00] start with kindness, ask great questions through managing the conversational model. So have that skill based, have that soft skills skillset homed to, to the best that you can.

And finally use a product like Waypoint. So make sure that you are set time and goal and space for these people that you're managing and these team members that you're working with to genuinely find out how they're doing.

Keerstyn: [00:00:24] This week on the podcast, we have Matt Cunningham. He is a business coach. who owns Epic kindness, but she, he is also joining forces with our team here at Waypoint. just start selling way point too. really being an influential person within our team. We're really excited that he's joining us. and so to get to know him better, we decided to do a podcast.

not only does he talk about the benefits of simply just having conversations with your team? He also talks about leading with kindness. And talks about why it's so important as a leader, as a manager, as an [00:01:00] employee. And it was simply just a person. In general, we go through some of those ideas that you might have about leading with kindness and if it's genuinely valuable and if it's the way to go. And I believe it is after I hearing Matt talk a little bit more about it. so yeah, we'll jump right in and. get ready to learn about leading with kindness

welcome to the podcast, Matt. I'm really excited that you're here with us today. some background for all of our listeners, Matt Cunningham. Has just joined us, and is working with us, as a Salway point. he is a business coach, who has been in the industry for about 20 years.

So has a lot of knowledge and background. and, yeah. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you got involved in your work and what you do now?

Matt: [00:01:45] Sure. Sounds good. really for the past 20 years, I have spent time helping people be better communicators. I focused on management, management practices and how people generally just don't oftentimes don't know how to manage [00:02:00] people.

They get promoted and they have not had experience managing others. And there's some challenges that come with that and managing people in general has some challenges. So for the past 20 years, I've been a manager, I've been a leader, I've been a business owner and, I've taken a coaching approach as often as I could.

Which is basically seek to listen, find out what someone's trying to say before you try to understand and help them solve. A lot of managers do that really well. And a lot of people don't. So I, I started, gosh, I started about five years ago. I started a coaching business and I am a professional, executive coach and I help managers kind of work through some of those challenges with their people to help them retain them.

Not only that, but. Also too, to just help them in general, as they communicate and have more conversations and better conversations with their team.

Keerstyn: [00:02:51] Interesting. So what were some of those pains that you saw in the workplace as a manager and as an employee? what were [00:03:00] some of those struggles that managers were going through and, yeah.

why do they need this? The

Matt: [00:03:06] biggest pains I saw in general were. Managers, struggling to connect, right? You have a team you're working hard, everybody's doing their day to day, and there's a struggle to engage. There's a struggle to connect to. There's a struggle to help people feel connected to the team or to the company.

So what I, that's the biggest thing. And then inevitably managers are trying their best. They're working hard. They're going through all these experiences. they're getting promoted. They're in meetings and their team members are leaving.

Keerstyn: [00:03:37] Yeah. And why are they leaving?

Matt: [00:03:41] The number one challenge in the U S right now is employees feeling engaged.

They just don't feel engaged. They don't feel connected to the company. They don't feel connected to their leader or their direct hire their direct manager. And they struggled too. Everything is, looks better somewhere else. And oftentimes I think people don't realize [00:04:00] until they've laughed at the grass really was never greener.

Just looked a little bit better. And, yeah, they. They take off and they run into the same challenges because those connections are happening everywhere or those disconnections as it might be. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:04:13] absolutely. What are some specific things that managers can do to start upping this engagement rate, start retaining their people more, making the grass actually greener versus having it look a certain way, but it not actually being true.

Matt: [00:04:30] I, the number one thing that managers can do is connect, get regularly scheduled, conversations with their team and keep those conversations. It is truly, a struggle for managers to do that because of the schedules because of the day-to-day work. And I know that people get sent to different events or conferences or trainings, and they learn how to communicate better and they learn some great [00:05:00] skills and that is extremely helpful, but they come back to work and the schedule takes back over and they may not be able to use those.

So the number one thing that people can do is just schedule regular touch basis, regular one-on-ones with their team. And find out how they're really doing. And I'd say the second thing that they can do is make sure that they're understanding what a, a great effective conversation looks like.

Managers oftentimes get so busy trying to solve that. They forget that it's just the person sitting next to them, just like them. And there's, you're dealing with the same challenges. And so understanding what good conversation and communication looks like is key.

Keerstyn: [00:05:41] Yeah. And how do you actually have the effective communication?

I know that some people are like, Oh, I'll schedule the one-on-one, but then they go to, and they're like, what do we actually talk about? what are some good questions or good, scenarios that would, play out in these conversations?

Matt: [00:05:58] That's great. That's a great question. [00:06:00] I, the biggest thing that you can possibly do is get yourself some questions lined up that are open-ended questions.

Start your questions with what or how. Make sure that you're really trying to engage and listen to the answers. but really to answer the question, just get a list half, have some things written down and prepare yourself for what that might look like and there's tools out there. It's one of the reasons I, I joined Waypoint.

Wait points tool on helping people connect and really keep their one-on-ones and setting goals and having a slotted time that you're going to meet with them. All those things are extremely valuable to making sure that one-on-one goes well.

Keerstyn: [00:06:41] Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing that you mentioned too, that I really do want to hit on is listening.

I think oftentimes our conversations are, we think that we're listening and then we realize, Oh, I have been talking for the past 20 minutes. And I actually haven't heard a single thing that my employee has said, or I [00:07:00] haven't dug deeper because they said their day is good. And that works for me. What. I guess are some tactics that you would, encourage people to do to actually start listening.

and not just saying that they're listening, but genuinely, making sure it happens.

Matt: [00:07:18] I like to call that reflective listening. It's it's you know, a lot of people talk about repeat back exactly what you heard. And while that might be good to start, there is a point where. You need to ref reflect back on emotion, right?

Reflect back on what was actually said. A lot of people use the word I understand in communication and sometimes it just isn't. People don't feel it's genuine because really how can you truly understand someone else, even if you've had some of the same challenges and gone through some of these same experiences, do you really understand?

So I try to use keywords. Like it makes sense, [00:08:00] that you feel a certain way, or it makes sense that you're frustrated and you tap into the emotion, you tap into the things that you heard. And while you may not understand, it can make sense. So that would be something that I would really start to do.

It's a great starting point, to hear the emotion, to hear the connection and then, and to really listen well, so you have to listen well to hear sometimes those emotions between the

Keerstyn: [00:08:25] lines. Yeah, absolutely. Are there some tools that you can use? So for example, would you encourage people to take notes during meetings or, to.

Make that list and then go back and go through it after the fact or what are some good ways to make sure that you're actually listening? but then proving that you're actually listening to yourself into that individual as well.

Matt: [00:08:53] No, Kiersten it's really interesting because the taking notes or not taking notes truly comes [00:09:00] down to the person's ability to, to recount the story. So I oftentimes don't take notes and I try to just really engage into what's taking place and listen, and go through the process with the person in front of me.

and hopefully recall those things as I hear them, or as they were said and talk about what someone might feel or the experience or the frustrations or the challenge, or even the joy and success. So those are great things there, but if you are the type of person that needs to take notes, then certainly take notes.

just have that conversation first. I have a very good friend who lets me know every time we chat, Hey Matt, I'm going to take notes. if you see my, if you see the top of my head, just remember I'm writing and it's, it clears up conversation that I, that I know.

They're not on their phone or something along those lines. So in, especially in the world, we're in today, it's really easy to get [00:10:00] distracted on a zoom call or on a chat, when you're chatting with someone online. So just communicate those things, share those things. That's, it's a really great, effective way to bring back.

And maybe you're just writing down the key words. So I always try to tag in keywords that you heard. The other tool that I try to use when listening really is try not to be thinking of your answer before the person's finished talking. So the next best thing to say out of your mind, oftentimes can be the worst thing to say.

So try to listen right through it, continue to go into what you're hearing and that will oftentimes give you clarity that you didn't even have. If you'd taken notes.

Keerstyn: [00:10:42] I'm taking notes right now, Matt, don't worry. I'm not on my phone. I'm glad you said that because I think it clears up some of the, those weird things.

Do you have a story about how a manager has, listened or not listened and like the, really the true reason why you wanted to get into this work? [00:11:00] Was it a bad manager? Was it you managing and really struggling with what you were doing?

what was it.

Matt: [00:11:08] my best story I've got two stories. My best story is I worked for a very large company and, had a manager who just never, it just didn't get understanding people. They didn't get that people have challenges in life and events. So everything was targeted and managed from a perspective of a list.

This is the things that you have to do and nothing should affect that list. And there was very little empathy or kindness, and the relationships. there's a point where it begins to wear on you so much that you sit back and say, if you just asked me one or two more questions or just found out a little bit more about what was going on, that maybe you would begin to understand me.

And so I began to look for other work [00:12:00] just because of one person. So in the research I've done over the last number of years. That's and I think, you look at a book, out there called the manager. It was written for a reason. It was written because Gallup did research and found out that people don't typically leave jobs.

They leave people and they typically leave direct their direct hire manager, the direct report. Whether, where they're reporting to. So it's something you sit back and go, okay. So how does that happen? And so for me, I watched somebody get promoted that didn't know how to manage people. And then the work becomes so overwhelming.

they've been hired to manage, and now they're doing the work. It's not really, even their fault. they just get really busy and they continue to not manage people well, because nobody showed them. So that's primarily it. Do I have, some relationships with, have I had some great relationships with really great managers.

I have some really amazing, great relationships with good managers and [00:13:00] you sit back and you realize, they listened. they cared about you. They practice kindness as often as they could. they spent time. Genuinely wanting to know how you're doing. And the more I got that experience, the more I watched that happen, the more you see the people that work for them want to continue to work for them.

So those are the two big keys, I've I left jobs specifically because of bad managers.

Keerstyn: [00:13:29] Yeah, absolutely. That's really interesting. I, so I actually remember my question now. So if, for example, say your employee is coming in and you're trying to be a great leader and have one-on-ones often with them, but it's just like a never ending negative circle.

What do you do?

Matt: [00:13:50] so clarification, is it a negative circle from the employee's standpoint?

Keerstyn: [00:13:54] Okay.

Matt: [00:13:57] I start, I try to be kind and empathize [00:14:00] and see if I can find out the root of the negativity. And I know that sounds really easy. Genuinely, if you started asking some legitimately great questions, you can find some of those things out, tell me a little bit more about what's frustrating. You how's things going in life, just in general. How are things going in life? Just in general? what's your biggest challenge. What's your biggest frustration with the business? Just start asking some great questions, but here's the key to those great questions.

Don't look to solve their problem. It's not a manager's job to make an employee happy to manager's job, to make sure that the employee has the tools and the skills to be happy. At their job. So oftentimes managers will ask some great questions and I'll give you an example. So tell me, what's frustrating you, is it a, is it B, is it C if you can name one [00:15:00] thing and so they'll make the question of, tell me what's frustrating.

You, answerable by opinion. In other words, here's my opinion of what I think it is, as opposed to what I want to hear from you. And the reality is you just want to know what's frustrating them. A lot of managers don't just ask the question and then stop and wait and listen. so that's probably the first thing that I see that happens a lot.

You try to solve it for them. These are the things that I think you should be frustrated about, or that I see that you should be pressured about. So which one of those is it? And it might not be any of those, but once you've planted those things into their mind, You've lost the ability to listen to what they might have on their mind.

So ask the question, let the question, sit and wait for an answer. And so that's one of the first things that I would do. And oftentimes what people will do is they'll begin to actually feel like you, you generally want to know, I want to know what it is. It's frustrating. I want to get to the root cause of your [00:16:00] negative.

Conversations that we continually have. And then also be the person that changes that negative opinion into where that negative, energy into some positive energy, how can it help? What is it that we can do to support you better? What are the things that you think that would help move this into a positive, a more positive direction?

So plant those things in the conversation that'll allow for positivity to come out

Keerstyn: [00:16:29] of it. Yeah, absolutely. I think those are really important things. So like you said before, managers often are just, they aren't equipped with the tools and resources and knowledge. once they're put in that managerial position, which often makes people leave, what are some of the things that you help people with as a business coach?

and how could you help those managers that are just simply not equipped?

Matt: [00:16:56] great question. my biggest thing Pearson is talking to managers [00:17:00] about perspective. First, do you have a perspective of your people? Do you, are you practicing kindness? The greatest managers out there start with kindness and then they manage from that perspective, they manage from a coaching quality conversation.

Great. Open-ended questions perspective, but. They generally are trying to be kind to the people that are working for them. And that goes a long way. So that would be the first thing, which is the reason I have a company called Epic kindness. it's practicing something that we all need more of. And inevitably the people that work for you need more of, it's just the way it is.

And so start there. The second thing I do is. I've gone through courses and trainings and all kinds of different things and have a number of different certifications in communication, but knowing how to manage communication well, conversational management, it's a tool that I use. It's a great product.

And it's a course. That's taught by an amazing [00:18:00] company here in town called real retention. They have a tool that basically helps you really understand how to have a better conversation. And they teach you how to do it. It's a soft skill learning thing. A lot of people that come through the course and have gone through the course, even myself, I had a lot of tools and I thought I asked really good questions.

And I thought, I knew how to walk into a conversation with a team member. And I learned a lot of wonderful skills to teach me that maybe I didn't know as much as I thought and can I do it better? So it's a second thing I do. And then finally, Waypoint is a product that. really shows up in follow through it shows up and you being able to take the kindness and the conversation and the great questions and do it.

There's a lot of people that just there's a lot of managers that are comfortable, more comfortable canceling a conversation or a one-on-one with their employee because something else came up. But that [00:19:00] seems more valuable. But in the longterm, in the long run, it costs them more when an employee leaves than they ever know.

So how do you just continue to be consistent? So that's, those are my three, those are my three points, really, start with kindness, ask great questions through managing the conversational model. So have that skill based, have that soft skills skillset homed to, to the best that you can.

And finally use a product like Waypoint. So make sure that you are set time and goal and space for these people that you're managing and these team members that you're working with to genuinely find out how they're doing.

Keerstyn: [00:19:38] Yeah, I really liked that idea. So one question I had that I don't know, it was a good question or a bad question, but I'm gonna,

Matt: [00:19:46] they're all good questions.

Keerstyn: [00:19:49] Sometimes people have this preconceived notion that, leaders that are kind are just like too soft or, they're just trying to have the need to please, or they're. [00:20:00] They're just trying to be a one man shop and do it all because they're just so kind and so caring. What would you say to that? because obviously we want to get over those humps and the, those preconceived notions, because I agree with you that we all need to lead in kindness.

but oftentimes, the managers that are hardcore and really don't have a lot of emotion behind them will get promoted simply because of their work ethic. What would you say to that?

Matt: [00:20:26] The first thing I'd say, and I don't know who the quotes from, but something along the lines of don't mistake, kindness for weakness.

it's not weakness to be kind it's the right thing, the thing to do, and we all need more of it. And if you just look at the society, the model's proven daily, through anger, if more people were we'd have less anger and hate in the world, and that's just a fact. so the first thing that I would say is, being kind is not being soft on follow through, right?

So set your goals, hold your [00:21:00] team accountable. Do all of those things that, good managers do and good leaders do. And yes, there are plenty of great leaders in the world who aren't kind to, people who get promoted because at the end of the day, you need to be successful. But you can do both and you can have both.

And I would challenge those that think that you can't to try it. I bet they haven't tried it or they haven't tried it maybe from an appropriate standpoint, from understanding tools, having the tools to do it well now, with that being said, I have a philosophy that I came up with a number of years back that's, it's basically this, you need to understand very clearly where kindness intersects kindness and compassion really intersect.

business loss. And once you begin to have, someone on your team, that's truly effecting your business to a loss perspective, then you need to manage that through accountability. And sometimes that doesn't feel kind, which is fine, manage it well, but at least start with the other and see if you [00:22:00] can work through those challenges before you hit that intersection.

Keerstyn: [00:22:04] I really liked how you said that you can do both. I think that's appropriate and really needed. And, people don't realize that you can do both

Matt: [00:22:13] and you can do with it.

Keerstyn: [00:22:15] You can do both and you can try to do both and you can hire Matt Cunningham to help you do both.

Matt: [00:22:22] I'd love to help in any way. But I think to remember remembering that, all along through this conversation, my key point is start with kindness.

If you, if other things happen after that, if you need to get into a more direct conversations and more detailed management, that's a different story, but you can start someplace and start with kindness. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:22:45] absolutely. I love that. Cool. Matt, if there is a, are there any links that people can go to either get in touch with you, find out what you're about, any resources that you may have available to

Matt: [00:22:57] anyone.

Sure. I've got a couple things right now. I'm [00:23:00] still working on some cleanup on some website changes, but, my website is Epic kindness.com. So you can go check that out there that actually started, That earlier this year, I opened this organization to really spread a little bit more kindness through the world.

sell some shirts on there and do some things. we're doing some drives coming up to, to help the homeless. So that's cool, to hand out shirts downtown, in grand Rapids and. So that's one thing they can do, and they can just reach out to me@mattatepickindness.com and ask for a consultation, got a number of people that I've worked with in town, a number of large organizations and small organizations as well.

Typically try to just help people grow their business, grow their team and help them become more encouraging. So I would love to chat with you and feel free to reach out at any time. And, we'll go from there.

Keerstyn: [00:23:50] Awesome. Thanks. do you have any parting words before we leave today?

Matt: [00:23:57] I don't think I do. I think I gave it to you at the end and start with [00:24:00] kindness.

Be a great manager, be a great leader and, get your people to want to follow you. You can make them follow you, but get them to want to follow you. And that starts with kindness.

Keerstyn: [00:24:12] Cool. thanks so much, Matt, for joining me today. I'm glad that we were able to record and, hear a little bit more about kindness and why we need to lead first with it.

Matt: [00:24:20] Thank you. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:24:22] appreciate it.

View Details

Tania joins me on the podcast to talk about her previous career and how it has shaped her to be an EOS implementer. As working in the TV industry she learned a lot that has helped her teach others how to be a quality leader in the workplace. Not only does she talk about specifics in the work place but also how it has helped her in her own career.

Find Tania on Linkedin here!

Full transcription below: (may contain typos)

[00:00:00] Tania: [00:00:00] So using the accountability chart, which is. Looks like an org chart, but functions so much differently because you're structuring around the most important functions of an organization first. So structure first and then defining what does the seat look like? how am I going to hold you accountable?

And then you put a name in the seat. So you've got somebody who has the skills, knowledge, and ability to do an incredible job with excellence and success. [00:01:00]

Keerstyn: [00:01:00] welcome to the podcast, Tanya. I am really excited. You're here today. Can you just give us a brief, understanding and background of how you got involved in your work and then what you do now?

Tania: [00:01:09] Sure. my background is, as a professional EOS implementer and how I got here, was growing up in an entrepreneurial family and I experienced firsthand the highs and the lows of business cycles.

So out of college, I worked in television and after a quick stint in front of the camera, I was drawn to the creativity. Behind the camera. And it led me to start my first business, which was a media production company and like any small business. I was really good at a craft or, producing a product or a service, but not necessarily had a lot of experience running a business.

And I grew the company to the [00:02:00] point of needing to hire a team to help me get it all done. And I was terrified of having a team be reliant on me for their livelihood. It does give me a ton of empathy for business leaders though. So that's good. and knowing about EOS back then would have likely produced different results.

Ultimately, I shut the company down and went to work for a regional insurance and risk management services firm. And I spent 15 minutes there. Or 15 minutes there. That's really funny. That's not very much experiences at

so I spent 15 years there and was instrumental in helping it grow from 10 to over 30 million in revenue and leading marketing innovation and technology teams. It gave me a ton of intelligence and insights into the business side of everything. being an owner and becoming a [00:03:00] member of the leadership team and also the board of directors.

What was there that I actually discovered EOS and EOS stands for entrepreneurial operating system. As a member of the leadership team, I helped build the company's vision, help cascade it throughout. Every level of the organization to help get more traction, which really is discipline, accountability, and execution.

And I became an internal implementer of our EOS systems. Okay. And I had so much passion for the impact that it had on our company and our people. It led me to found growth spark. And for the last year and a half, I've been working full-time to help as many business leaders and their teams get more of what they want out of their

business.

Keerstyn: [00:03:56] Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. I'm really glad that you went through all of that. [00:04:00] Cause that's an interesting take on it, especially that internal implementer. What were some of those things? Did you go through the training to become an implementer or was it just thrown at you or what did that transition look like?

Tania: [00:04:14] The transition. we had used an implementer out of Chicago, Todd smarts, and, he is a master he's Yoda when it comes to this stuff. And, he has a philosophy though that, Graduating EOS companies. So he can bring on more is how he runs his EOS practice. And as we graduated after about two or two and a half years, working with him. Somebody needed to lead our sessions. And so he did a great job at providing me with insights, and tools, techniques, that kind of thing, coached me before each of our sessions [00:05:00] and, between getting that coaching, running our sessions and mostly watching the impact in our company.

It was, all of those things that led me to say, I know that there are more companies out there that. Can use this, that need this, that wanted, that might not even know it exists. yeah, that's, it's a huge passion. I use the words a lot living in my zone of genius, which actually comes from Dan Sullivan's unique ability, concepts of, but, this is me living in my zone of genius when I can help other companies get more of.

What they want, which is often around people process or profit. not always, but, when they start to harness all that human capital energy and move it forward in alignment. And creating an [00:06:00] environment of accountability. It is game-changing and, that's really where I live. Like my best professional life is hearing those stories and watching the impact.

Keerstyn: [00:06:12] Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. I'm glad that you went through those three things to the people, the process, and then the profit too. What are some of those things that you do to help that people side, within the organizations that you work for? Obviously, I'm sure it's a ton because people are the number one, asset of businesses.

But what are some of those things, and tools and processes that you bring them through?

Tania: [00:06:38] one of the biggest is making sure that a company is really clear on what it means to be the right person in the company, which means that they fit the core values and the culture and being in the right seat.

So using the accountability chart, which is. Looks [00:07:00] like an org chart, but functions so much differently because you're structuring around the most important functions of an organization first. So structure first and then defining what does the seat look like? how am I going to hold you accountable?

And then you put a name in the seat. So you've got somebody who has the skills, knowledge, and ability to do an incredible job with excellence and success. So right. People, right seat. That's huge. And there's more to it than that though. that's a bit of a foundation of EOS because when you break down any organization breaks down into six key components and obviously the people component is huge, right?

Because people are your biggest asset, usually your biggest pain in the ass too. So you need to get rid of some of the pain around that. So it also helps create TeamHealth. What we're [00:08:00] striving for is open, honest, cohesive teams. People that can raise their hand and say, I have a problem. We need to solve it.

And also the health piece. I'm a huge Patrick Lencioni fan. And, the reason I bring that up is in his five dysfunctions of a team trust is the foundation of everything and it leads to greater results. So if you can build more team health, you can build more trust and that's, it starts at the highest levels of the company and it cascades down and.

I think the third thing then beyond the people component, the right people, right seats and the team, trust and health. The third thing is creating better leaders and managers within the organization. that old adage of people don't leave companies. They leave managers. So how can we create a better.

[00:09:00] Relationship or environment. And, so helping companies do that as well. And I think that, when you look at it through those three lenses, there's a whole lot of impact that it will have a company.

Keerstyn: [00:09:12] Yeah, absolutely. So EOS starts at the very top. How do those teams immediately feel that impact of creating that better team health within an organization?

Because they're starting at the top and they're obviously going down what. What are some of those initial things that people are feeling when they are in that middle manager or even employee seat,

Tania: [00:09:34] they start to feel better communication. It's like D most disagreements, or, ineffective communication is due to lack of clarity and lack of ability to communicate effectively with.

EOS. And as it cascades throughout the company is the ability for [00:10:00] people to be able to solve issues and communicate the most effectively. and you hear a lot in companies about, I don't feel heard. I don't feel like I know what's going on. nobody tells me anything. communication is lacking. I'm not sure that I trust and when you have a better cadence and a better flow of information, you can resolve a lot of that simply by having better meetings and a better flow of the information and communication.

Keerstyn: [00:10:38] Yeah, absolutely. When, so what is the timeline between starting with that leadership team and then it eventually casts Katie down and down to that more manager, middle manager level and employee level to the point where they're also implementing that's within their team.

Tania: [00:10:57] That's a really good question.

every company is [00:11:00] a little different, some move quickly. Some move more slowly and there's no real right or wrong answer in the proven EOS process. The first three sessions, the first three months, one session a month for three months is spent with the leadership team, getting them good at. Executing, creating an environment of accountability and building out the vision.

So after those first three months, they are ready to communicate the vision and ready to start the process of cascading. It takes the average company about two years. To get really masterful at the execution and depending on the size of the company, cascading it to every level. So average two years, but some companies have done it a lot faster and some companies [00:12:00] take a lot longer and there's no real right or wrong answer.

It's whatever's right for the company.

Keerstyn: [00:12:05] Yeah, absolutely. What are some of those traits of those faster companies, but then also some traits of those slower?

Tania: [00:12:12] The traits that I've seen most are smaller organizations with fewer employees don't have as many levels. I typically coach that, taking it one level at a time is more methodical approach.

But just like the leadership team has about three months of working with me to get good at, the meetings and how everything works. It's going to take that next level. Months to do the same thing. And there it's going to take them a little while to get good, feel confident in order to then not just be part [00:13:00] of a meeting, but then start running their own meeting.

and, and holding people accountable and having the right scorecards in place. And, And being really good at solving issues, creating racks. So there's a lot of moving parts to it. so faster companies, can be, smaller ones, cause they're not as complex, not as many layers if you will.

but then there's also. Companies that are just inherently more nimble they're hungrier. And, people are like that as well. Some people are faster to get started and keep moving. And some people are a little slower, more analytical. They need all the answers and all the details and they have, a little bit more pro faction minded versus progress minded.

maybe that's a little insightful. I think that usually that's, those are some of the biggest keys, either size, or [00:14:00] simply, naturally how a company operates with their ability to change and move.

Keerstyn: [00:14:05] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's interesting too. Everyone's a little bit different. but sometimes it does take much longer to roll out just because of the culture and the organization, how they've grown in the past, and how willing they're going to be to work at it and really strive for success.

Absolutely. Absolutely. That's really interesting. so what are some of those things that you do to help with the process as well? So you first off said people, what's the process look like, then?

Tania: [00:14:34] Do you mean the EOS implementation process or the, like the cascade process?

Keerstyn: [00:14:41] The cascade process. Let's go that route.

Tania: [00:14:45] Okay. Cascading EOS throughout a company really looks, what does done look like? Well done looks like you've got your vision completely built [00:15:00] out. So you know where you're going and how you're going to get there.

You've got in an ideal scenario, a hundred percent of your people are right people, Seats. you've got everyone in your company that is accountable for between one in three measureables. So they know what is a great week look like. They're driving that metric to success, in, an activity-based leading indicator.

Are we on track? So everybody has we call it has a number, everybody's responsible for. Raising their hand, when they need information, they need to give information or there's an issue to solve whatever, slowing them down, ticking them off, getting in their way. The they're following the processes of the company.

So the processes are, think franchise model getting the most important things done the best and right way. if I touch one of those processes, I'm [00:16:00] managed, trained, held accountable for doing it the best and right way every time. and I'm in the right meeting pulse. So if creating the right meeting pulse in an organization will help.

Be the ultimate. Time-saver give people time back in their week because they're great at solving issues. Great at communicating and then great at execution because they're able to go out with clarity and execute on their roles. And then I'm accountable for between one and three rocks every quarter, which are those special projects, the bridges to the future, helping to drive execution toward whatever that big.

Vision is for the entire organization. So driving that in alignment with what the company has set. So that's what does EOS look like? That's what it looks like for every person in the organization.

Keerstyn: [00:16:51] Yeah, absolutely. And then those profits are tied to essentially those rocks of how do we actually get real [00:17:00] results and real metrics out of it too?

Correct.

Tania: [00:17:04] Yeah, profitability is, that exactly what you said and also keeping your eye on the ball and your finger on the pulse of the company. So are we on track for hitting our revenue? what does our receivables look like? Do enough people in the organization understand what drives, not only cashflow, but profitability and.

Processes are certainly a big factor in that, because if you have the right processes that are defined for the most important things that you do, it can create everything from scalability to profitability efficiency. and those are huge drivers and, but it's really hard for an organization that's been highly successful.

[00:18:00] To hit that ceiling of things have gotten complex. It's hard to get everyone to see, where it is that the most important things are to execute on. And, when you don't understand why it's often very difficult to follow the, how EOS helps you to do that, then ultimately if you say, Profit is what we're going to focus on.

And this is how this is why, because profit is not a bad word. It's a great word. Without it. People will see companies will cease to exist. but this is how we're going to do it. And when people understand that it's so much easier to get on that bus.

Keerstyn: [00:18:43] Yeah. And then also connect your why after the fact of I'm doing this because, and actually make it reasonable, but, achievable for sure.

Tania: [00:18:54] Absolutely. getting back to the Patrick Lencioni, I think I mentioned I'm a big fan. I really am [00:19:00] because it cause the statistics that he brings to the table are around, culture will eat strategy for lunch because when you look at all the variables around results, And in which typically encompass profitability, and culture.

And ultimately that's the why a company is going to exist. If you've got great culture, you will keep your people around a lot longer because they get that. Y and they're part of something that's bigger than themselves, and they feel. Very integrally connected with the company and with the vision. And they're more likely to stay, even if a competitor is going to pay them, 30% more to try to get you to come away when you feel that very deep connection to a company and the [00:20:00] mission and the why, you're not as likely to leave. And again, that comes back to that profitability, because it's really expensive to have turnover

Keerstyn: [00:20:10] extremely expensive. Yeah. It's like one of the top, expenses on the people's side of things.

If not the top one. Yeah, absolutely. That I think culture is really ex like extremely valuable, and companies really need to embrace that and figure out what their culture is. Not necessarily on a hundred page, sit on my desk

Tania: [00:20:32] for the rest of the year,

Keerstyn: [00:20:34] way, but on a simple, easy to understand, process driven way that we can now express culture 100% through our entire organization.

Tania: [00:20:47] Yeah, I always, I love to use the analogy of, companies who spend a lot of time creating really amazing strategic plans and whether they're complex and long or [00:21:00] simplified, like in the EOS world, two page strategic plan. What often happens is they stick it on their desk or in a drawer. And at the end of the year they pull it out and they go.

Dust it off.

He didn't get that. Didn't meet this. Didn't want it to do it. We just didn't have time. And so was, she used the year, next year when we get it all done and that's like that's living on hopium right. And there's nothing behind it. That's helping to drive the execution. And when you've got great execution and alignment, you're going to get far better results.

Keerstyn: [00:21:34] Yeah, absolutely. What are some of the tools that you would recommend people to, boost their culture? whether it's EOS or not EOS, what are

Tania: [00:21:42] some of those

first? I think that you've got to have clarity on your culture. What is it? What do you want out of your culture and the behavior of your people? And is it isn't it. And in culture, [00:22:00] and that's pretty subjective, right? Everybody's definition of good is going to be different, but making sure that you've got the right people that fit that culture, because people who don't fit the culture or it's really painful for any team to be around somebody that doesn't fit the culture.

but beyond that clarity piece, it's a ton around intentionality. And what I mean by that is if you're going to do anything from making a decision about how you're going to treat your people, how you're going to treat your clients or how you're going to make huge decisions like going through, a global pandemic, for instance, you've got them to make your decisions intentionally around.

Who are we, what is our culture? And staying aligned with it, the alignment and the intentionality around it is huge because otherwise [00:23:00] you lose a lot of credibility and create damage around your own internal brand by not following it. And, keeping it very close around some of the biggest decisions, even some of the smaller ones, too.

Keerstyn: [00:23:17] Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really valuable what you just said, especially that intention piece and making choices, but then also being transparent with choices too. And having people understand where you are at and what you stand for and how you're going to go about standing for that issue, whether it's a global pandemic or, a small issue within the organization.

Absolutely. Awesome. Tanya, where can people find you? If they're interested in talking to you more in potentially using you as an EOS implementer,

Tania: [00:23:49] I can be found on linked in and my website is achieve big results.com. And [00:24:00] if you see the spelling of my name and realize it is not the easiest name you've ever spelled, but if you Google me, there's a, there's a.

I think I Google pretty well. I actually did the other day and, it's so I should be fairly easy to find.

Keerstyn: [00:24:16] Perfect. Awesome. we will make sure those are in the show notes so that people can find you and spell your name correctly. Do you have any final, Oh, do you have any final remarks or comments?

as a parting words for our listeners.

Tania: [00:24:33] any parting words?

I think one of the biggest challenges I would have for listeners would be around change, so it's okay to change. And. If you were stuck in a place of pain or [00:25:00] frustration, don't sit there too long. Because if you keep doing what you're doing, you're going to keep getting what you're getting. So figure out a way to get something different.

And if you find that difference, is equally painful, then fail fast forward and find something new. That's going to work for you, but don't be afraid of change. It's actually can get you, so much more than what, than what frustration and, complexity. It often stifles and drags you down. So get more.

Keerstyn: [00:25:35] Awesome. thank you so much, Tanya, for joining us on the podcast today, this is fun to learn about culture and the processes and, with people and how profit can change your organization.

Tania: [00:25:45] Yeah. thanks so much for having me. It's been great. I love your

Keerstyn: [00:25:48] podcast. Absolutely. Awesome.

View Details

This week we have Mike Sudyk, Founder and CEO of Waypoint, on the podcast to talk about why DISC is so important to us and our organization! We have not only is DISC part of Waypoint, but use is consistently to make sure that we are playing in our strengths. One valuable piece of information that Mike shared was to have consistent conversations (one on one’s) with your team to continue to work on:

1. Adapting the way you communicate to help your employees better understand what is expected but also to feel empowered to go do their work!

2. Continue to learn how to work together on a deeper level (and be more productive in the process).

3. Consistently invest in relationships that are meaningful to you and your team (because your company cannot survive without a solid team behind you!).

Feel free to check out how Waypoint integrates DISC by clicking this link here!

Full transcription below (may contain typos...):

[00:00:00] Mike: [00:00:00] I was not operating in my true strengths with, the natural style versus the adaptive style. So in my case, I was. Natural style higher D but my adaptive style was lower D because I felt I w had to reserve myself and be like, not be as like driving forceful.

Like I was trying to like, Be more reserved because I didn't want to disrupt too much. Like I didn't want to, I didn't want to offend the people I was working with. And that kind of, I think came from, having bad experiences being too forceful or too Hey, we're going to drive, we're going to do this.

We're going to go in this direction. So you're trying to curb that. And so just the whole notion of a natural versus an adaptive style for me was a good dose of self-awareness to say, Okay. W why do I feel like I have to act that way? and sometimes it's appropriate, but the, what goes along with that is saying, okay, you can't operate in that [00:01:00] forever.

Keerstyn: [00:01:00] Let's speak on the podcast. We have Mike Sudek. He is not only the founder and CEO of Waypoint, but is also my boss and manager. I'm really excited to have him on today because he talks a bit more about disc. And why is a key aspect of Waypoint? he talks about how he. Make sure that, our employees, whether past or current.

employees have fallen into those strengths that, he does not have and the ways that he has really embraced, Embrace. The disc scores that he has and make sure that he is playing in his strengths. So we'll jump right

today in the podcast we have Mike student. He is not only our founder and CEO of Waypoint, which is a sponsor for this podcast, but is also the CEO of ECE group who has been, Creating great software teams for the past 20 years.

So thank you for joining us today, Mike.

Mike: [00:01:58] Kiersten. It's a pleasure to be [00:02:00] interviewed by you and it's great to be on the show.

Keerstyn: [00:02:04] Oh, I'm glad to hear that. so today we're basically going to be talking about disc and, disc profiling disc test, and why it's really important to have, your employees not only tested, but also yourself.

So you can learn a little bit more about yourself and the process, but also be able to, Make sure that your employees are working in their own strength. I've made a subset of questions that Mike hasn't seen yet, that we're going to run through

Mike: [00:02:31] here.

Keerstyn: [00:02:32] all So the first question I have for you, Mike, are what are your desk traits or your strengths rather?

Mike: [00:02:38] So I am, 80 out of a hundred on the D I am 99 out of a hundred on the I 39 S and 32. See, so I definitely skew D and I, I is obviously my strongest, so I'm a people person.

And, so it's interesting when you talk about, testing your team [00:03:00] and I feel You always think people are like you right now. You always think people are going to communicate the way you communicate. and my experience has been, as I've learned to manage people and manage more people and interacted with more people and worked with people that are, maybe my junior and then people that are my senior, you especially become more aware of strengths and, and how people communicate and their disc score.

And. For me, it seems like it's really like on learning. You're unlearning how you communicate because you gravitate towards your natural style and you naturally think that's going to be great for people. So you have to slow down and how you, like you communicate or interact and then say, okay, how is this person gonna hear this?

And me being very like, hi, I'm like quick to want it. I talk about different things. I want to just jump into ideas, move really fast. And for someone that's not like that, it can be very chaotic. And yeah, just like you said, like this question [00:04:00] was what's your disc score and for me.

it's high, but it's realizing that, just realizing that I'm that way is really eye-opening, the self-aware

Keerstyn: [00:04:09] absolutely. my next question rolls into that, but it's were there any surprises that you found while getting your disc score back and if so were, what were they.

Mike: [00:04:20] One of the things that they, they talk about, like an adaptive style, as opposed to a natural style.

And it, one of mine was, I was, I think, a higher, I was not operating in my true strengths with, the natural style versus the adaptive style. So in my case, I was. Natural style higher D but my adaptive style was lower D because I felt I w had to reserve myself and be like, not be as like driving forceful.

Like I was trying to like, Be more reserved because I didn't want to disrupt too much. Like I [00:05:00] didn't want to, I didn't want to offend the people I was working with. And that kind of, I think came from, having bad experiences being too forceful or too Hey, we're going to drive, we're going to do this.

We're going to go in this direction. So you're trying to curb that. And so just the whole notion of a natural versus an adaptive style for me was a good dose of self-awareness to say, Okay. W why do I feel like I have to act that way? and sometimes it's appropriate, but the, what goes along with that is saying, okay, you can't operate in that forever.

there's a detriment to acting outside of your natural style that, you just need to be cognizant of, and to say, Hey, you're going to get burned out, or you're going to be dissatisfied or. Whatever, if you're operating too much out of your natural style.

Keerstyn: [00:05:50] Yeah, absolutely. So what were some of those things that got you back into your natural style in the workplace, or, just in general to get you back to where [00:06:00] your wheelhouse was?

Mike: [00:06:02] I think one of the biggest things is. And so one of the biggest things is surrounding yourself. People that compliment your styles. So you don't want to, I think it's natural to surround yourself with people that operate the same way you do, because there's a natural synergy. As much as I hate that word.

There's a natural synergy with people that, Just are, have the same disc profiles you right there. So you're going to gravitate towards them. You're going to tend to hire people like that. You're going to, you're going to hire, you're going to work with people like that. Your clients might start to look like that in some regard.

And but it's important to. surround yourself with people that have a compliments, a complimentary profile so that they can, interact and do the things that you can't naturally do. So as a leader, you're trying to do everything. You're trying to communicate with everyone and be the.

all things to all people you're going to fail because you're naturally wired a certain way and you're compensating is other ways. so instead [00:07:00] it's learning how to have those people that can bring those other skillsets to the table and that you have a good relationship with them and you can communicate well with them.

In our case, we, my number two, Laurel Verberg is she's much different wiring than me. she's much higher in the S in the C category. but our long term relationship has helped us to be able to communicate those things. So she can buffer that and bring those comments to the table.

And, That's really important and being able to see those. And, it's interesting because we had, someone that worked with us a while ago that, did a lot of media work and I felt like I was, so I was managing her directly and we just wouldn't, we wouldn't, we didn't gel. W we gel, but we didn't.

I felt like she was held back and it was because of like my management style and I didn't really understand why. And. I think it was Laurel, that kind of helped me understand how she, how this gal was wired. [00:08:00] And what I found was she's a highly creative person, but she also had a high level of ownership and she wanted to, own more of the process and kind of the project management and my high D would be driving towards ideas and I'd be bringing things to the table.

And so there would be a natural rub because I would always say, not necessarily go with the direction she had, I'd be like, Hey, I want to do this. I wanna do this. Or constantly throwing new things in the project. And I didn't give her that level of ownership. And. The interesting thing was when I did it went so much better and she did a much better job, obviously, because that was her skills, but she handled things.

And I just got things done at a much better rate than when I was involved, And it was like this blossoming of her and her role that I was not, I was getting in the way of, and it was eye opening to me to be like, wow, That was just [00:09:00] me and my misunderstanding of how she's wired, that was inhibiting her growth, which ultimately made my job easier because I didn't, I wasn't actively involved in a lot of things.

so that was just like hugely eye opening for me. And I think it was interesting because. I had made assumptions about her kind of ma like wiring and how she was communicating that. and then I operated on those assumptions to when. I should have not been doing that. maybe I'm just being confusing and how I'm saying this, but it was very eye opening because I was being introspective of how I was handling the situation.

and then when I changed my behavior, everything changed and I was like, Oh, That was all me getting in the way. Yeah, there you go. So yeah, it was a good learning experience.

Keerstyn: [00:09:50] Yeah. Sounds like it definitely. Absolutely. So you blew through all my questions or some of them,

[00:10:00] so basically some of them were like, what are your employees? Just strengths with that, which I think that you touched on with Laurel and then how do you work those together? how have you empowered there? The strengths in the workplace, which I think you could definitely touch on more of like, how do you empower Laurel to use her strengths in the work that she does and how do you collaborate in that regard?

And, what are some of those ways that you do that?

Mike: [00:10:25] Yeah, that's a good question. I would say the one way that I try to do that is not. Putting my them in a, her or them. And, being the greater number of people that I work with into situations where they're operating outside of their strengths, because that's gonna a, they're not going to be as effective B.

They're not going to be as fulfilled. See, they're just going to get disgruntled or resentful. But if someone is a, high S or, that has a lot of, loyalty would just go along with that. so there might be some underlying, they would [00:11:00] just get the job done because they're.

They're a stable person. they're very hardworking, there. And so you might not even realize, how you're making this person unhappy. And you can't really recover from that really easily. If they're, if it just they're already emotionally over a hump. And so then there that you can't really recover from that.

So I think knowing it on the front end and understanding, In the role that they're in, Hey, what, how are you liking this? where do you feel like your challenges are? What are you dissatisfied with? and having those conversations is really key because then you can have open communication to say, Hey, I don't want to do this.

Or someone doesn't wanna do this, or this isn't fulfilling me. Or, And then you can say, okay, let's get that off your plate. Let's have someone else do it. That's just naturally suited towards that. And, a good example of that specifically with Laurel was like, she doesn't like to do sales, she's I don't want to do outside sales and that wasn't her responsibility, but, and that's not in her skillset, but even if there was a [00:12:00] sales scenario, she was like, I'm happy to come in after we're already talking about a project and to talk to new customers, but I don't want to be that, First interaction, the cold call, that sort of a thing to wear an eye.

That's naturally something that energizes me and fulfills me. And I can know that she's not wired that way, but she might go. So along with that and say, yeah, if we need to do that and I need to step in, she would go along with it. And because she's knows that maybe that's what's needed time, but no, I have to know that's going to be detrimental long-term and so that's really important.

Keerstyn: [00:12:34] Yeah, absolutely. What has been the most difficult thing when it comes to the disc profiles in our organization? yeah. What has been like the biggest hurdle or problem to overcome?

Mike: [00:12:48] That's a good question. Kirson I think at first glance, it doesn't seem like there's a bigger hurdle, right?

Like when you first think about it, you're like, there's not like a big hurdle. It's just doing it or acting in a certain way. I would [00:13:00] say changing bad habits. you might go through a phase where everyone takes a desk profile. If you haven't and you talk about it and maybe you read a book or you, have some initial conversations, but just doing the regular.

Discussions about it and actually doing it and acting on it, day in and day out is different is like the hardest thing to change your natural bent because it's easy. Like it's easy for me to act in the way that I normally act. It's hard for me to pause and say, okay, if someone says something to me that doesn't really, that I don't understand, or it seems off putting or something.

As a leader, you have to say, okay, why is this person saying this? and are they reacting to something? I said, that was not communicating in the style that they communicate in. So that constant analysis of that communication is a hard part. just doing the work and. It's really changing bad habits, I think.

Keerstyn: [00:13:59] Yeah, [00:14:00] absolutely. What are some of those tools to help you get out of the bad habits and start actually implementing and having conversations. And

Mike: [00:14:07] I feel like I have to plug way point here. that, I think the tool is to have regular one-on-ones and meetings with them that are not just project status updates.

A way to do that effectively is Waypoint, which is a tool that we built, for that very reason. And I wish it was more magical than that, but that's pretty much what it is. we, we just started using EOS and that's been a pretty. Great tool in terms of ensuring communications flowing regularly, having a level of accountability, which for a high I person that wants to go in a bunch of different directions, that level of accountability is really key.

it's going to be much more the S's and the C's are going to gravitate towards something like EOS because it's more process-driven knowledge. so I think just, Those systems and habits and are [00:15:00] really the best tools, that's the backbone of good communication, good leadership, that sort of thing.

Keerstyn: [00:15:04] yeah, absolutely. If you had one takeaway for disc or even a strengths finder and other personality system, what would it be and what would be the big highlight you would get

Mike: [00:15:18] that. Disc is great, but it's, there's a bunch of different flavors, there's a bunch of different personality profiles.

And I would say the big takeaway or the big thing for leaders is just to be, self-aware be self-aware of your profile, of how you communicate, how others communicate. because communication is now what you say. It's what the other person hears. and. Self-awareness is not a one and done thing. It's not like you just take the disc profile and you're like, Oh, I'm self-aware, that's great.

Check that box. Let's move on. it's it's understanding day in and day out what you're saying, how you're acting, and what the consequences are. And I'm not [00:16:00] saying that you have to become the other person. it's being aware to say. Okay. I'm Heidi and I'm going to push the organization certain ways, and I'm going to push them to adopt new practices towards someone that's extremely high.

C would never step outside of the comfort zone. maybe they will, but they're going to naturally be risk averse. So you can't be all a bunch of CS, that's going to happen. nothing new that happened. Yeah. But you also can't be a bull in a China shop. you can't be going around and just throwing out processes and say, no, we're gonna go this other way.

So you have to be self-aware enough as a leader to say, I'm willing, I'm going to adapt these practices that are going to help the organization as a whole, but I'm going to appropriately. Leverage my, D or I, or whatever, for the benefit of the organization and as a member of this team.

And so that self-awareness is really key because you can really piss off a lot of people really fast. it doesn't take very much to do that. and then where are you? you [00:17:00] took up your whole team. It's you're nothing without your team.

Keerstyn: [00:17:01] Nope. You're not wrong about that. Cool.

thanks Mike, for having us on, do you have any other last thoughts about disc or strengths or tools or leadership advice for anyone?

Mike: [00:17:15] talk to your team early and often and regular, and to ensure that they share with you your blind spots, because everyone has blind spots. Thanks for your son. it was nice to.

To be interviewed by you on the podcast. So this is the first, yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:17:31] this is a first. Thanks for being a guest on the podcast and sharing insights. I appreciate it, Mike.

Mike: [00:17:40] Boom. Awesome. .

View Details

Connie joins me to chat about goal setting and what we should try to aim for when making goals that will lead to positive metrics. Not only does Connie help us understand what we should be looking for in these goals but also give great examples on how to do make these goals.

Where to find Connie:
Linkedin

Full transcription below (May contain typos):

Connie: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] so they may measure number of client, meetings and instead of a weekly goal, and somebody has to own that number.

It doesn't mean that's the person who has to go do 10 meetings. It could be a sales team of five people, but we're going to look into the eyes of that person when they're on the leadership team. When that number is at met each week. And have a discussion about what went sideways.

Keerstyn: [00:00:43] welcome to the podcast, Connie. I am very excited to have you here today. Connie Schwann is with us and she, is an EOS implementer. do you want to give us a little bit of a better understanding of how you got involved in what you do now and then who you serve currently?

Connie: [00:00:59] about, [00:01:00] actually 13 years ago, I hired an EOS implementer at my last company. I was walking around my company. And my leadership team just kept rolling their eyes at me going, Oh, she'll go away at some point because I knew I wanted something, but I didn't know what I wanted. I, it, I felt unsettled.

we were successful that it wasn't like we were dying on the binary or anything, and we have great team. but something just didn't feel right. And I was invited, by a local business friend, to a workshop. there was a be presented by a gentleman named Mike Payton all about ELs. And I thought, okay, what's the, so I looked up POS found their website and was reading it going, Oh my gosh, this is what I'm looking for.

So I signed myself up and my CFO to go. unbeknownst to her, and this was a person who didn't like going to big meetings and would be so thrilled that I had signed her up. And I announced that on like Monday morning, Hey, guess what we're doing in three weeks? [00:02:00] No doubt. She was so excited. it was awesome.

yeah, that was our guests. But as like what happened? I had an opportunity to do something else that morning. I was requested to be someplace else. And so I sent her by herself, made her even more happy, but she came back from this meeting. So excited and lots of pages of notes. And she said, get this guy in here, you have to meet him.

Now I get what you're looking for. So we hired an implementer. it's about a two year process. And then I ran the company on EOS for another five years after that. And in that period of seven years, Peyton said to me, if you ever get tired of doing what you're doing, call me, I think you'd be a great implementer.

So seven years ago when I closed my company, I thought. What's the next, I decided that I would explore becoming an implementer. And I come from the time when Gino Wickman who wrote traction, which is what dos is based on hand selected everybody that went through his bootcamp. And, so I was [00:03:00] accepted into boutique.

Yep. and I've been doing this for almost seven years now and having a title in my life.

Keerstyn: [00:03:04] Awesome. Awesome. What were some of those things when you were in your organization that you were looking for? What were some of those pain points that you were just like trying to get over and over, and I'm sure that a flavor of the month occasionally came in and you tried it and it didn't work.

What were, what did EOS solve for you that

Connie: [00:03:23] you've been

Keerstyn: [00:03:23] looking for so long?

Connie: [00:03:25] we had never done anything like the star at our core values. and and that's one of the foundational, exercises in EOS, as we help companies implement it is to, and core values are discovered.

They're not something that you get five staff together and put it, lock them in a conference room with a bottle of water as Steven saltines and tell him to come up with the best. They come from the leadership at the top, because core values are it's. Your culture is who you are as a people. and interestingly, when we went through, but I didn't know that at the time I just felt unsettled.

it just didn't feel right. I felt [00:04:00] one of the things we talked with our clients about is this concept of hitting the ceiling. It doesn't feel good. You don't know what's wrong. As I say, it's not as though we were not doing it. Good work. And we were rolling and really liked us. And we like them and we liked each other, just felt, I kept walking around saying we have to do this something different, but I don't know what the difference is.

Yeah. Once I understood what the 16 components of a business is, I could see where we weren't necessarily super strong. So great example is we have a data component that we teach and what we teach that we help our clients identify the activities they do each week to get the results that they want.

And that's a measure of those every single week. we did what every one of my clients do. I would walk in and look at my marketing guy going, how are we doing? Even all of us were on it. Oh yeah. We're at [00:05:00] 110%, of ever here. And I go, Oh, okay. What does that tell you? Okay. As a CEO of a company, it was just as guilty of running on emotions and that hardcore data.

And there's just a million of those kinds of examples. that we did. And, and interestingly, when we discovered our core values, we had some people leave our company because once they understood what it meant to work with us, not for us, but with us, they knew they weren't that person.

Yeah. I see that happen all the time. And one of those people was on my leadership team. That's hard, 19 years.

Keerstyn: [00:05:38] Yeah, that's really hard. And I'm sure a weird transition

Connie: [00:05:41] to yes, it was. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:05:47] Interesting. I really liked what you said about people were just like flying on their emotions and not hard data.

What does, what do your clients feel after the, during that process of let's [00:06:00] get to the hard data, let's try and figure this out. Is it oftentimes. Like a five step hurdle process where they start it and then it's okay. And then they realized that we need to do dive deeper into it.

What are some of those things feeling during that and how do you help them get through that?

Connie: [00:06:17] one of the things that I w we all do this, not just me, but one of the things I always tell every single client when I first meet with them, is that implementing EOS is a journey. And there's never going to be a day where you suddenly wake up and go, ah, We're running we're to ask you to do a lot of things that may sound really silly that a client may look that going, why does she want us to do this?

But it's that repetitiveness. And you get to a point where you clearly understand that we're running our company on EOS. and so when it comes to, the tool for measuring. Getting strong. The data component is all the scorecard and what we've been taught in [00:07:00] business, all our lives is to measure lagging numbers.

And you look at the end of the month, did we hit our sales fall? Did we have a profit, or whatever your measurables are. Okay. The problem with that is it's now the end of the month and what can you do about it? Nothing. And so now you're gonna to wait another month. To see if you hit your sales hole.

So instead, and I always use sales as an example because every company grabs onto this really quick. If they know that they need to have 10 client meetings a week to close a deal, then that's what they should measure. That's a leading indicator. It's there, it's an activity based. Number. And so they may measure number of client, meetings and instead of a weekly goal, and somebody has to own that number.

It doesn't mean that's the person who has to go do 10 meetings. It could be a sales team of five people, [00:08:00] but we're going to look into the eyes of that person when they're on the leadership team. When that number is at met each week. And have a discussion about what went sideways. Okay.

Yeah. it might be, we have to do three proposals a week. We have to, it's just a righty of steps. We actually have a tool that's called getting what you want and we have you decide, what do I want? And maybe it's, 10 new clients a month. What do I have to do to get there? And just keep coming back to all the steps you go through and those become your measureables.

Yeah, most clients either three to six months before they're really in love with their scorecard. Again, we're changing corporate behavior and we're not. We're asking you to look at the leading indicators of what creates the healthier company, because the scorecard related snapshot of how strong your company is right now today.

And so if you miss a number, it's not about accusing anybody of anything, it's not about beating [00:09:00] anybody up, but it's about a leadership team going, okay, what happened? And what could we do this week to get ourselves back on track? Cause if if you fell off track for a week, Maybe there was a good reason, it was Thanksgiving week.

We were close two days. We should be excited that we even ate. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:09:18] absolutely.

Connie: [00:09:21] And then, so you wouldn't spend time worrying about that, but if you were supposed to do 10 and you did two and the next week you did one, wait a minute. Where's our issue here? How do we fix this? It's about making everybody stronger and better.

Keerstyn: [00:09:35] Yeah, absolutely. And it makes it human too. I think that's another big part of this is Leadership team being able to say, okay, what actually happened here versus you're in trouble? I think oftentimes when we think of business, it's. These deadlines with harsh reality is, but in reality, it is very forgiving and open and honest and transparent.

And then also constant feedback. I think that's part of the [00:10:00] process that you're teaching that is fantastic. And,

Connie: [00:10:06] in the grand scheme of things, we're teaching leadership teams to trust each other. Yeah. And interestingly, the minute I bring that up, they go, Oh no, we trust each other.

trust from our perspective is very different than trusting that if I'm late for a meeting, you'll hop on the meeting and start it off for me. You trust is knowing that I can say to my colleague on the leadership team, Elmer, I don't, when this happens, it seems to me that you're doing X and how can we help you get better at that?

That's trust because Elmer then looks at me and goes, Oh, I didn't realize that. apparently yes, here's my issue. Here's what I'm struggling with. What can I do to get better? And because it's not a personal attack, it's helping each other get stronger. We talk about trust from the standpoint of having everybody aligned and all on the same page.

So there's no opportunity for [00:11:00] gaps and. And for dishonesty and infighting and all that stuff that can happen in the company. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:11:07] Absolutely. What are some of those hurdles that, they need to get over to get to that trust, that they need to have they, what does that look like? How long is the process?

Is it, it's very unique for every company I'm sure. Because it would be all for what different paces, but yeah. What are some of those things that they really, those soft things that they really need to. grasp onto and start becoming better.

Connie: [00:11:33] and so actually we start working on trust. The very first session we work with our clients, and back up just a moment here, we work with our clients five days a year, across two years, and then we want them to graduate.

We, because I'm not bringing them answers, they've got the answers, I'm bringing them a set of tools they can use. And I'm facilitating teaching the context. Facilitating the answers into the pools. And we really are [00:12:00] starting on day one, which is called focus day because on that day we helped. One of the things we help them do is create what we call rocks for the next 90 days.

Iraq, no, most of us. And then we, the goal sits for 10 months and then we pull it out of the jar and we go, okay.

Keerstyn: [00:12:20] That was there.

Connie: [00:12:22] Yeah, that was a great idea. So we create this 90 day world, where we come together, review the vision, make sure that we're all on the same page. Identify our priorities for them.

If we're going to hit this goal, what are we, what's critical for us to do these next 90 days, that right then, and there starts establishing trust because, to you and we're going to look to each other on the leadership team ago. here's our, okay. here's a whole list of things that are critical.

And we always talk in the terms of three to seven rocks. Hopefully closer to three than 7:00 AM I? My record is I had a [00:13:00] team come up with 76 critical items for the next 90 days. Guess what guys? You can't get all this? None.

Keerstyn: [00:13:12] No,

Connie: [00:13:13] they were like, Oh, you just don't know us yet. No, I know, but you can't be, we're going to get this down to seven tops, but it takes trust. And it takes me willing to be open and be vulnerable and have a leadership team member, look to somebody else and go Connie, really? You think that's critical? How come?

why do you think that's critical? starting that on day one and every day, the day that we worked together, those five days in a year, we get closer and closer to the team. Being able to look at each other without me prompting them. And saying, Whoa, why is that critical for us? Or why haven't we solved this issue or whatever else is going on, in the discussion.

Does that make sense? Absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:13:57] Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's a really important [00:14:00] distinction for people who are thinking about doing EOS it's, making those priorities quickly, but then also having a questioning mindset to be able to, Support your other colleagues and the side what's extremely valuable in these next 90 days versus what's valuable in the next three years.

It's very different. And it's

Connie: [00:14:21] also a respect. The one that's valuable, three years down, we don't want to lose them. we have a place on one of their documents where all the parking it, they can put it on a list because we don't want to forget it. but this may not be the quarter to work on that.

Yeah. I often use where the company is. Let's say in two years or lease is up and your building. And you're thinking about maybe buying a building, whether it's this one or another one, you don't need to worry about that in the next 90 days, but let's put it on your list of your issues list because it's an opportunity that may, you might want to explore eight months from now or six months from now.

And we don't want to forget [00:15:00] it. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:15:01] absolutely. It keeps it in the back of your mind, but still, you still, and also the other thing too is if you completed your rocks, you could start looking at, your building or whatever other things that you might need to complete that are important,

Connie: [00:15:14] but yeah.

Are your thoughts

all 90 days? Yeah. but, but it's going to take more than a week. And if you're. In early on when people write, watch, they'd write couple simple ones and I don't mean that critically they're learning. And so they often write rots the other done in six weeks and they're related and they'll email me.

She gonna write a new one, the one.

Keerstyn: [00:15:43] yeah, absolutely. So then the racks are supposed to do the whole 90 days and you said,

Connie: [00:15:48] they don't have to take 90 days. Okay. Okay. They might happen. It might get done in 48 days or 60 days. but you've got 90 days to [00:16:00] get it done. If it gives you a little wiggle room, because stuff comes up that we cannot predict.

Keerstyn: [00:16:05] Yeah,

Connie: [00:16:06] who would have predicted we were going to shut down the state of Ohio or three months?

Keerstyn: [00:16:11] No one.

Connie: [00:16:15] So if all of the, so one of my clients is a, is a nonprofit, school K through eight. They, their target market of kids and the, central Ohio who, are, whose families are at or below the poverty level. And so we were having a quarterly session on a Friday that Monday, Ohio closed all schools. And so they had a talk about all of a sudden having to figure out how to do it online and et cetera.

And they were glad they had that the 90 day world. Because again, nobody can predict that the schools in Ohio were going to shut down for. The rest of the year, basically.

Keerstyn: [00:16:54] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, it's important. I guess I've never really thought about it [00:17:00] like that in terms of having that amount of wiggle room to be able to, deal with large, either large or small things that might come up.

yeah.

Connie: [00:17:09] Sure. Yeah, wait a little bit from my colleagues would probably raise their eyebrows if they heard me use that. if you've got something that you think I can get this done in 90 days and you get it done in 84. Okay. I teach my clients once, you know what your rock is.

You need to go back and back to your office. HQ here, do a little project planning. think about what can be done this week and next week, and look at your schedule, et cetera. And, and so if there was something you were going to do next week and all of a sudden, some big monster molder comes rolling down the Hill at you and you have to stop what you're doing and pivot, then it's okay to maybe move your rock out that next step in your rock out another week.

Keerstyn: [00:17:53] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's. Allowing you once again to be human, like I said before. [00:18:00] Okay. Not dealing with that. It's not dealing with perfect, but it's dealing with 'em. Quick and feedback oriented concepts and, yeah. Being able to be a better organization for, not only the world, but for yourself.

absolutely. Yeah. I wanted to touch on, you mentioned that, when you're implementing this, I, we talked about that trust thing you said when we're implementing this, it might seem a little bit silly. Some of the things that people are doing during this initial implementation, what are some of those.

Silly things that people might be like, what are, why are we doing this? Why do we need to do

Connie: [00:18:35] this? So where I hear that the most from the PR client feedback and sometimes pushback, one of the things we teach people as, for the leadership team to have a 90 minute meeting every week to work on their business, they take the pulse of the company, they know what's happening and they solve issues.

And It's called the level 10 meeting. And that meeting has [00:19:00] five characteristics. It's the same day. It's at the same time. It starts on time. It ends on time. And, it's the same agenda and invariably, yeah. Yeah. I've had many a person, not necessarily the entire team, but at least somebody on the team go really.

It's gotta be at the same time. Why they're like, what, who cares? Who cares is because, so what happens in many companies? Not that I ever did this, of course, but, it happens in many companies as leadership team says, yeah, we're going to meet Mondays at eight 30 and at eight 15, somebody says, Hey, can we start at eight 45?

Cause I really got to take the support call. And then eight 45 comes and that person's still on the phone. Everybody's sitting in the conference room bums and then somebody goes, Oh gosh, I was supposed to email somebody. I'll wrap still in the hall. I'm going to go send an email. And now before you notice it's nine 30 and we still haven't started.

And so then we added the agenda gets set during the start of the [00:20:00] meeting. What do we want to talk about today? that's not real focused. And what often happens, and it's not uncommon in that scenario for the sales team and whoever represents sales, a leadership team to not set any appointments on Mondays, let's say because they have no clue when they're going to be available.

Okay. A good use of their time. And so by setting a day and a time and starting in time on ending on time, everybody knows what the expectations. Yeah, am by having a set agenda, the agenda and the topics, and it's standard for every week. It's the same exact agenda for every one of our clients.

Everybody coming into the meeting knows what to expect. And so there's things that have come up during the week. They go, Oh, I got to share this with the team. They know where that's going to go on the agenda. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:20:50] absolutely.

Connie: [00:20:51] And so I've had people go. Rarely we and I, and when I teach that level 10 meeting a [00:21:00] full, I make them sit there and go pull out your scheduler, tell me what day you're going to meet, what time you're going to meet.

and who's going to facilitate the meeting and who's going to bring the paperwork. and invariably, everybody comes back after a few weeks going love level 10 meetings. Yeah, because they know it starts at nine. We're done at 10 30. People can plan their day. they actually get through an agenda and they solve issues and they're now ready to go attack their week.

and yeah, it sounds silly either. We mean the same agenda. We, again, as business people, we were never taught that. We never approached. Most of us never approach it from that way. I'm sure there's somebody out there that came up with the concept of having a set agenda, but that's not something that has,

Keerstyn: [00:21:51] it's not normal.

Connie: [00:21:53] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:21:55] absolutely. Yeah. I really appreciate that. You went through that, especially that time thing. [00:22:00] I totally see where you're coming from with, do we really need to do this again? And it does get pushed back. And, when you said it as a priority, that's really important, valuable, and that also shows that you are putting time into this and, I feel that it's valuable and that's really important to spread to the rest of your organization, especially if you're going to be moving EOS down into the rest of the organization.

Eventually it shows an initial leadership and that's the in building trust and, having constant feedback, I think it rolls into everything. but

Connie: [00:22:35] eventually we'll do

yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:22:36] that's extremely important. Absolutely. Absolutely. Awesome. Connie, if people want to use you as an EOS implementer or, just get in touch with you just to talk about EOS or business or whatever it may be, how can they, come in?

Connie: [00:22:51] So there's a couple of ways. my website is www.pureandthenahyphendirection.com direction has [00:23:00] always hyphenated for me. and there's a contact form on that, website that they can just reach out. they can find me on LinkedIn, reach out to relate then. my email is connie@dashdirection.com.

I am always available to just chat. what about my core values is to help first. And so I many times will spend an hour on a phone or on a zoom call or over a cup of coffee with someone just chatting about what's going on in the company, what they're looking for. And, and I do that very willingly and don't expect anything out of it.

There's no obligation. every, before we work with a leadership team, we do what we call a 90 minute meeting. It's 90 minutes for me to show a leadership team. what it looks like when a company runs on ELs to walk them through the process. So they know if they were to engage with me or any other implementer, we're going to go through the exact same process every time they know what they're getting.

Yeah, there's no question. We actually show them the agendas for all of our sessions [00:24:00] together across the two years. and I actually teach them how to use one of our favorite tools, the vision traction organizer. So even if they never worked with me or anybody else, they've got the script tool they can use.

and again, there's no obligation and it's an opportunity for me to meet them, find out what their challenges are. ELs is hard work implementing us as hard work. I say that to every single prospective customer and most folks come back to me at some point and go, you were right. This, we work hard in our session days.

This is not simple. And so I am always open to a great conversation with somebody. some of the coolest people in the world

Keerstyn: [00:24:39] you do, I'm sure that you do, if they're trying to implement us and they are. Really working towards being a better organization, better people, and it's hard work, but it shows

Connie: [00:24:51] that I offer a variety of ways to achieve that.

and everything gets tailored to the individual client. Awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:24:58] Cool. thank you so much, [00:25:00] Connie, for joining us today. This was a lot of fun to hear about your past and learn how you help people, but more, and, yeah. Thank you so much. I've appreciated that.

Connie: [00:25:09] thank you honor.

That you would have me.

View Details

Dave joins us on the podcast to chat about why it is vital to know how your personality (and others) works so that you can continue too improve your communication skills, your knowledge of yourself, and your ability to grow. He walks us through not only our selves but also our team.

Where to find Dave:- Linkedin
-His Website

Transcription below:[00:00:00] Dave: [00:00:00] it's developing yourself and. And the idea that we can't grow, we can't expect others to grow. We can't expect our team to grow if we don't grow.

Keerstyn: [00:00:36] welcome to the podcast Dave, we are so excited to have you here. Do you want me to just give us a brief, background of how you got involved in your work and then what you do now?

Dave: [00:00:43] Sure. Yeah. so yeah. Thank you for having me. I, I've been in leadership roles for all of my adult life and, and it was probably about 10 years ago or so, where I really started turning a corner and getting more intentional about how to. Lead others [00:01:00] organizations and bring resources to them and got connected to John Maxwell and his leadership group and his team.

and, And so it just, it evolved from there to be able to really go to the next level of helping individuals and teams and organizations to find the success and the results that they're looking for and what I've found and what I've come to believe as you and I were talking before it re it really, my focus really is on the people side of things, of developing people, our greatest appreciable asset.

It doesn't matter what you sell. It doesn't matter what your organization's all about. Doesn't matter where you're located. It doesn't matter how many people you have. The one common denominator is that people are our greatest appreciable asset. And so I have found that to be the sweet spot of my leadership focus is to help individuals and teams and organizations to develop their people.

[00:02:00] Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:02:01] absolutely. So you said about 10 years ago, you became a little more intentional about your leadership. What were some of those things that really struck you when you started to be intentional?

Dave: [00:02:13] Yeah. I, what I found was. a lot of people, I just stumbled into it. Like I said, I've always, you've been involved in leadership in some way, shape or form, but I really got involved with a lot of local businesses through chamber of commerce and what I was finding, it was just this common need that people had to learn and to grow about themselves.

And so I was really looking for. It just seemed that the door was just really opening up to be able to help people in that realm. My focus is, as I said, is not really on strategy. Like I, I'm not really like a business strategist. I'm not great at helping somebody along those lines, as much as it just comes down to the people thing.

I've spent my whole life developing and [00:03:00] working with people. And so that's really where the doors seemed to open up. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:03:05] So what are some of those things that you do to help people get on the road to development? I'm sure at the very beginning, what does that look like?

Dave: [00:03:14] when I, when people ask what I do, in the simplest terms, in three words, it's I speak a train and I coach I'm a speaker trainer and coach.

and so the. the model that I typically use in whatever venue that is or whatever, that, whatever the, the framework of where that speaking training or coaching may develop is I've always used like the baseball diamond analogy, which I really like is the idea like you start off first base is developing the leader within you.

it's developing yourself and. And the idea that we can't grow, we can't expect others to grow. We can't expect our team to grow if we don't grow. So it all begins with ourselves. It's discovery. we do a lot of [00:04:00] stuff with discs, personality profiles to help you figure out what are, where are your strengths?

How are you wired? And then w move that to second base, which is about developing your team. If you can develop yourself, I think you'll be better equipped to develop your team. And so the focus there is how do you take the vision that you have as a leader, as a business, to grow it from me to we, where more people they get it and they understand, and they want to.

They want to go where you're going and that's the team side of things. and when you can develop yourself and you can develop your team, then organizations and companies are really just a collection of teams. It's a team of teams. And so that's the third base is then helping organizations on a wider macro level to develop themselves that way.

and then what I say, th then the home run, of course, Baseball diamond isn't complete without home base. So the home run for [00:05:00] me and my perspective is to help individuals and teams and even organizations and even communities to move beyond success, to significance. And I think to me, that's what home run is when you are then using your gifts and your talents and your abilities and your experiences.

To make a difference beyond yourself. It's not, it goes beyond just making a dollar and it's about making a difference. And, and I think that's something that is, that I have found is just a common thread that I think is just inherently wired in all of us that we all have that want that desire somewhere deep, that we want to make a difference.

It's that legacy talk what's gonna. Outlast me after I'm gone. what difference have I really made? what imprint have I really made on the world? And, that's the, you asked, what's the, where do you start? yeah, that's where you start. I think that's the trajectory around those

Keerstyn: [00:05:57] bases.

Yeah. Yeah, [00:06:00] absolutely. So you mentioned disk in there and I would assume that every part of that uses disc in some way.

Dave: [00:06:07] Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:06:09] Do you want to explain this a little more for our listeners?

Dave: [00:06:13] So yeah, just goes into the, basically it summarizes, everybody puts you into a predominant. We all have.

Different dope elements of our personality, that, how we react to things, how we make decisions, how we respond to pressure, how we deal with other people. And. And so the four parts of that personality go are important for us to understand, what am I a domineering kind of person?

And am I an inspiring kind of person? Am I a little bit more of a steady, I just kinda to keep things happy and moving along. Am I more of a compliant person where I. I like things to be done. And the focus is there. and the truth of the matter is that we are all a combination of all of those, but you [00:07:00] most likely have one or two that are the dominant side.

So it's important for us to understand that about ourselves. So that does come into play in. In base and first base is figuring out, how am I wired? you have to know how you are wired. You have to know yourself. If you want to grow yourself, if you want to grow other people all around you.

And so then the definitely then that moves toward the second base is not just how here's, how I'm wired, but now I've got to find out how are the people around me wired. And that becomes critical when it comes to. One of the number one problems that teams deal with is communication. there's always communication battles, and that always comes up.

And so understanding how do I commute? If I'm a, if I'm a hi, I, hi, inspirational kind of person. And I like to have fun. I like to, I like I'm highly relational. And I'm dealing with somebody who's the opposite of me [00:08:00] and is very like numbers focused and fact focus. And, there's a lot of important factors I have to take into consideration in dealing with them and communicating with them and understanding them.

Keerstyn: [00:08:14] Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's. Fascinating. And sometimes we don't even think about that in terms of going to that person and their mindset, not in our mindset. And oftentimes that's where communication fails.

Dave: [00:08:28] of course it does. I think that's the, when you think about what is the number one rule of communication is.

Or marketing or as a business is it starts with the other people. It starts with them. It starts with your audience, who are you communicating to? What are they thinking and what do they need and where are they coming from? And that's the way it's supposed to be. That's not the way we do it. Yeah. we typically think about what I want and where I'm coming from.

And I want to be understood first [00:09:00] as opposed to trying to understand the other person.

Keerstyn: [00:09:02] Yeah, absolutely. So I think that this is a really interesting thing right now, especially because we're all like in that weird transition of going back to work, or what does the office look like now, or what have you been telling some of your clients, in terms of communication and getting your team on board, what has that all looked like?

Obviously I'm sure it's a little bit different, but. Yeah,

Dave: [00:09:26] yeah, it's been tough because a lot of what we've done has been shut down and, there's a lot of work with manufacturing company and things, the rules have just completely turned upside down and changed about when we can meet and how we can interact.

but before we, during this time, one of the things that we did was we reached out to them with just a simple communication. And it was really along those lines that in times of difficulty like this and times of crisis and times of uncertainty, communication is key. That leaders have to.

[00:10:00] They have to go to the people first and you have to think about the people and show an element of an increased amount of empathy, where, what concerns people have and the fears that they have and the frustrations that they're going through. and that sense of, again, uncertainty about what just what's going on in life right now.

so the coaching that we've done to some of our clients so far has been, has really been along those lines, that this is the time to really go toward your people, move towards your people.

Keerstyn: [00:10:34] Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm even seeing that you have to be a leader, not just a manager of these situations.

the difference between that is drastically, not even close to comparison in a sense. And people are really being shown. Are they a quality leader or not? And that's been something that's been hard for certain companies. What are your thoughts on that?

Dave: [00:10:56] Yeah. Oh yeah. You know what we say that all the time that there is a huge difference [00:11:00] between leadership and management manager leadership is doing the right things.

Management is about typically about doing things, doing the process correctly and reproducing that over and over. And they, they go hand in hand. But they really are both about that, Leadership. But, I remember a few years ago I was working with an organization and they were going through a rough period of transition.

And in talking with the leader who was just really. frozen and there was a lot of uncertainty around what was going on and the troops so to speak were very unsettled. And they, it was like, I use the analogy that they were like in a fog. and when you're in a fog, people are looking for somebody with a flashlight.

They're looking for somebody that will grab their hand and say, here's the way forward. And in the absence of that, Teams really get restless [00:12:00] and they start imploding and they start getting real paranoid and there becomes a real negative, just a sense of, w when there's that lack of clarity, it really wreaks havoc on a team.

So it's critical to be able to be the one leading forward. And it doesn't mean that, all the answers. I've always said that leadership is not, I have all these, the answers, but leadership is we're going to find the answers to get there. There is an answer and we'll find it together and I will lead you through that.

That's the critical nature of, I think, what a great leader does. I think about, The w you do when you're in a torrential downpour, as you're driving down the road and it just starts pouring rain, you have to slow down. You can't just keep going at the same breakneck pace. You have to slow down and sometimes you even have to stop.

And so that's fine, but that's what the leader's job is. And sometimes you slow down, you hit the brakes just a little bit and you say, let's get some clarity and understanding [00:13:00] about what we're doing. You've got to slow down so that you can speed up slow down so that you can eventually move forward.

But yeah, that's a, that's the message that needs to go out to leaders in times of. I say in times of uncertainty, I've said three times, when are we ever not in a time of uncertainty? there's always, we're always uncertain about something, but yeah, but that's, it's, especially in times of crisis in times of severe pain or transition, that leaders need to step up and recognize that people are looking for someone to lead the way

Keerstyn: [00:13:34] forward.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'd completely. I agree with that. But then also back to that communication piece of being transparent and really acknowledging the pains and struggles that people are going through, but also being completely honest in terms of where we are going this far as they know, as far as the employees know that type of thing.

Dave: [00:13:54] Yeah. Yeah. you don't always know, but, but yeah, I think a leader has to be honest. I think somebody needs to step up [00:14:00] and lead the conversation and to go first that way and to say, let's let's find a way forward. I think that's really what being a hope dealer is all about, which I think is what the job of a leader is that you're a dealer in hope and you're helping people see.

That there is a pathway forward. And if it's not this pathway, it's going to be this pathway. And if it's not that pathway, we're going to find a third or fourth or fifth, and we're not going to stop until we find a pathway forward. That's what a leader does. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:14:30] absolutely. Absolutely. I am really glad that we've mentioned that in terms of the manager and leader and how people are transitioning into that in this weird time to say the least

Dave: [00:14:41] it is a weird time.

Keerstyn: [00:14:43] Absolutely. Absolutely. So at the very beginning, you mentioned developing people and we've gone through developing yourself, developing your team, and then developing your organization and company. When you get to that home run, what are companies feeling at the end of that? What. What are some of the things that [00:15:00] they've been saying that have been positive in terms of how their either culture has transformed or their teams have transformed?

What does that look like for them?

Dave: [00:15:09] Yeah. w we did a training for a company and we shared, shared a video of, of a company. And now I can't remember what it was. I shouldn't remember off the top of my head, but I want it, I want to say, I want to say it was Toro, the lawn. On your company or the lawnmower company, all the stuff.

I know they do more than that, but, but they were talking about as a co, they were talking about culture, the culture of the company. and what we shared was just that they had, here's a company that obviously got that our company is not just what we do is. Is we manufacture stuff and we make these things.

We make these products for people for the consumer, but who we are and what we're all about is so much bigger than that. And they, and you could just see it and hear it in their voices, on their faces about how [00:16:00] they we're really understanding that this is more than just the. The mechanics of what we do day to day, that there is a deeper sense as of a greater why.

Simon Sinek always talks about, you're great. your sense of your, why? what is it that you are really all about and the difference in the imprint that you're making on the world? I think that's what people. People are drawn toward that thing. That's inspiring the people to say, Hey, we're not just making a widget here.

We're not just selling a product here. we're really, we're making a difference. And, boy, I think that's rewarding. That's what pushes people to do. Overcome obstacles that get in the way that. That things that would maybe hamstring some lesser company that just would detour them and take them off track.

when you can develop a sense of corporate culture that says we are more than just what we're doing here, I give you an example. just from today, just today, I was just listening to a call and, and the [00:17:00] guy, the leader was, the head of a mortgage company and he was just describing how, what they, and they're only like 10 years old and he was describing how.

When they started this mortgage company, it was in the midst of the mortgage crisis and the financial crisis, a lot of things that were going on and this is just insane, but what they have created was a sense of we're not just, we're not just another or mortgage company. We really are about giving back.

So they give back to. Underprivileged under resources, kids in their community, organizations that are helping kids get a step forward and things. And they have rallied behind that to say, okay, when things are tough, when things are stressful, they keep pointing back to that. They say, yeah, but remember the profit that we make.

is not just, it's not for us only. And of course we get the bet, we're the beneficiaries of that. But ultimately it enables us to make this huge impact in the community. That to me [00:18:00] is a company that is starting to answer that significance question that says we're not just successful, but we're significant.

John Maxwell says, once you taste significance, success will never satisfy. And I think that to me is the, what. Scratches that itch that a lot of us have of that sense of, I want to be a PA I want to be a part of something more than just feeding a company and the bottom line, the bottom, the dollar amount.

And I really want to be a part of making a difference. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:18:33] absolutely. I've heard a few times that millennials are that generation that wants to make a difference, but I would actually have to disagree with that. I think that it's. Literally everyone under the sun who wants to make friends and be out there working for the greater good of who knows whatever they are passionate about

Dave: [00:18:53] a hundred percent, I agree.

I think millennials have really brought it to the forefront and it really [00:19:00] did led the way of saying, without saying the same with their actions, like this is. I'm not going to accept anything less. millennials gotten a bad rap because people see them as they just move from one thing to the next thing, to the next thing.

And not real certain that keeping their options open up. I don't think that's, I don't think that's really what's driving it. I think it's that drive to when they find a place where, what we've found, we've done some research stuff with the Gallup organization, and they've done a lot of study about.

Next generations and that are now a big part of the marketplace. it's no longer they're coming. It's no, they're in leadership now. And they've led the way of saying there's more to life than just a job. And if you can get those, I don't want to just, I don't want to turn on a switch and go to work and then turn off that switch and go home.

I want my life to be integrated that way. I just think that. Frankly, I think that's how we're [00:20:00] wired. I think we're wired that way. And I think the more that you can align those things together and help your team and help the people that you work with as a leader, help them to understand and see a bigger, greater purpose behind what we're doing.

I think that's where you really start to connect. I think you really start to Excel and you find greater results as a result of that.

Keerstyn: [00:20:24] Yeah, absolutely. I would totally have to agree with you there. People are searching for that until they find it. They aren't satisfied for sure. Just like Ron Maxwell quote.

Absolutely. Absolutely. this has been cool. I'm so glad that we went through all of the ideas that you have, but then also just. Life thing is and what the world is transforming into. so Dave, if people want to find you, where are you like located? So obviously LinkedIn is one of them, but where else?

Dave: [00:20:52] Yeah. Yeah. probably the simplest is, Chicago. Our website is Chicago LP for [00:21:00] Chicago leadership partners.com. that's probably the easiest simplest right there. We can jump off from there. And like you said, from LinkedIn reached out to me and, we've. we've got some great, we had some great results of dealing, working with again, individuals and teams and companies to help them to find greater results by increasing the effectiveness of their leadership.

I think that's. I throw one more John Maxwell quote in here where he says everything rises and falls on leadership. And I think that's why I have landed on hitting that as man. That is the center of the Mark, is that we, and we're all leaders, we're all influencers in some way. You may not have a title, but you're still an influencer.

So when you can grow that you can grow your influence, you can grow your effectiveness.

Keerstyn: [00:21:48] Absolutely. Absolutely. thank you so much for joining us today. This isn't fun.

Dave: [00:21:52] Thank you so much.

View Details

What does hiking the Pacific Crest Trail and leadership have to do with one another? A lot actually. Joel Swanson joined us on our podcast recently to chat about what the hike taught him and how his story inspires his clients daily. Not only did he teach us some valuable things like how to trust your people and get through the hard things, but also gives insights on how he teaches this to his clients daily.

Where to find Joel?Linkedin
His Website

Full Transcription below (may contain typo's...):[00:00:00] Joel: [00:00:00] And so I kept going and there was a big trail sign that I came up on the back of and stole anybody parking lot with a trail sign. And I came to the other side of the sign and looked at it and the sign said, and a fuller Ridge. and at that point, when I saw that sign, I realized I'd gone all the way across for Ridge without even realizing it because I was expecting something so much scarier than actually was real.

And I, I remember dropping my pack and kicking a pine cone. I was pretty frustrated with myself and frustrated with the situation, but the, that whole idea of going to gemba and going to see for yourself, Played out a lot throughout that hike.

Keerstyn: [00:00:46] welcome to the podcast, Joel. I'm really excited that you're here today. Can you just give us a brief intro and bio of who you are, what you do and how you got involved in your work?

Joel: [00:00:55] Sure. My name is Joel Swanson and I am in Minneapolis.

[00:01:00] I am married, I've got three kids and I am a certified EOS implementer of doing I've been doing that for about six years and I got into it originally. when a client asked me to implement for them and I didn't know anything about EOS at the time. And so I did some learning and. Did an implementation and it didn't go very well, honestly, but I was really impressed with the system.

And so I decided that was the direction I wanted to go with my career. So I've been consulting for, and working with running small, mid sized businesses for my whole career and, with EOS. That's what I do now. And I love it. Awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:01:40] That's really interesting that a client came to you just randomly and asked you to do that, regardless of if you knew.

I didn't think about it. I'm sure that you had an implementer type personality and that just really helped, boost their ideas of you and, felt comfortable doing that. That's really fast.

Joel: [00:01:55] It was fun. And it was a compliment. Certainly they've

Keerstyn: [00:01:59] been

Joel: [00:01:59] a client for [00:02:00] about 10 years and a few different derivations.

So it was a pretty natural extension for me to do that.

Keerstyn: [00:02:06] Awesome. That's really sweet. I love that. So for listeners, obviously we, me and Joel had a conversation prior to this and we basically are going to be talking about a fight that he did from Mexico to Canada.

That was five months long. And basically how, he now incorporates leadership concepts with his stories from that. so Joel, do you want to just give us a brief. Background and, the why of why you wanted to do this. What made you do this? And then some of the things that have come out of it, because of that.

Joel: [00:02:35] Sure. So the, I hiked a trail called the Pacific crest trail in 2009, and this is a literal hiking trail that goes all the way from the Mexican border to the Canadian border, through Oregon, California, Oregon, and Washington. And. I had been an outdoors person my whole life, but I'd never done it. A lot of backpacking.

And then I [00:03:00] was probably 23 and somebody, I just heard of it and I went okay. And Googled it. And my eyes got really big and I'd heard of the Appalachian trail, which is another long distance hiking trail. The Appalachian trail is some long trail that's out East, somewhere. when I saw that the PCT went all the way from Mexico to Canada, that was something that really captured me.

And so I started looking into it and, had never done backpacking a lot of other outdoor things and camping and stuff, but I've never actually done backpacking. And so I started doing that and learning about that. And, probably seven years later, I guess it would have been, I. I quit my job and went and did that height.

And it took five months from Mexico to Canada. And whenever anybody hears about this, they always ask her a couple questions. And I'll just answer those quick, because these are the ones that you're.

Keerstyn: [00:03:57] Thank

Joel: [00:03:57] you. Yeah. So one, did I carry a [00:04:00] gun? No, guns are heavy. I was, I ever like I did. I said any wild animals.

Yes. but not in a dangerous sense. It wasn't like I got. I scared off grizzly bears or something like that. animals tend to want to stay away from you if you're in the wilderness rather than come to you. Did I go alone? Whether it's the next question everybody asks and the answer is sorta, I started, my dad actually was kinda my backpacking partner and he started with me.

And so we did the first two weeks together, and then he had a, I think it's called a job that he had to go back to. Yeah. And then beyond that, there was a couple of places where there was some things that were legitimately dangerous. And so there's a couple of guys and I, that said, we're going to stick together for this one or two week section.

But after that, other than that, no, I didn't explicitly stay with anybody.

Keerstyn: [00:04:58] That's awesome. Thanks for [00:05:00] answering those because I probably would have asked about those. Absolutely. So what were some of those things that kind of resonated with you after the fact, when you think about leadership and this hike, obviously I'm sure it was the hardest thing.

You've. All I've ever done probably, or one of the hardest things that you've ever done. So what are some of those things that you first think of when you think of leadership, but also this hike and some comparisons between the

Joel: [00:05:26] two? pretty much everything I learned comes from a story that makes me look bad.

so we'll just throw that out right out there. So the thing that amazed me even very early on in that journey was that so much of. The things I was experiencing and learning had direct ties back to business. And for me, I've learned a lot of things in business and most of them have common.

I won't say most I've learned a lot of things in business and many of them have come from my experience in business, [00:06:00] but some of the most important ones haven't come through actually being in business it's came through the experiences that I had hiking that I've really transformed. Who I am as a person.

So there's a few that I like to share, especially the first is really about a concept called goat, gemba and gemba. for those of you who may not know is a Japanese word, that means like a place where the value is created and it's part of lean manufacturing and the Toyota practical problem solving system.

The idea of saying, we're not going to solve this problem by sitting in a conference room, we're going to solve this problem by going and actually looking and seeing what's happening out there. And so go to wherever things manufactured, sit next to the rep who's on the phone, go see for yourself.

And the thing, and pretty early on, this was probably three weeks into the hike. it started in April. And [00:07:00] most of Southern California is desert, but in April, there's a lot of snow and some of the Southern mountains and some going through snow in April, which is weird in a desert going through snow, but there was one place where I got into a town to resupply.

And it was a bunch of hikers who are freaking out about the next section, which is, which was something called fuller Ridge. And. It's going to be dicey and it's going to be scary and you need crampons. And somebody died there last year. and I was pretty terrified. and the people were taking a bus around that section and just skipping it altogether.

Yeah. And I finally convinced this myself to just do this. And so this is one of the sections where I stuck with somebody because I honestly thought this was going to be. Are really scary situation. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:07:53] Yeah.

Joel: [00:07:55] And there are, somebody did die on it the year before. so there's legitimate reasons to be [00:08:00] concerned.

And we got to the section and I'm looking at my map and the next three miles are this part, where is the really scary part where on forage, where everything is, this is where you're going to have problems type of thing. And I'd call them twice ahead of time. And I called my mom and then I called my wife again, kind of thing.

And we were hiking and kept going and I kept expecting like anytime now, the really gnarly, scary part is going to be here. The dangerous part is going to is gonna be here shortly. And at that point I didn't really understand my hiking speed. So I hadn't really no concept of how long it would take to go to three or four miles.

And at some point in the middle of that, I looked ahead and. Kind of way out on the edge of my vision. I saw a straight line and those of you who have spent time in nature know that they're the only straight lines that there are in nature is flat water that's not moving at all other than that [00:09:00] I'm straight line.

So if you're out in the wilderness and you see a straight line and it's not water, it's something man made. And and I was so frustrated and so scared. And I said, how the heck did I get lost way out here? And, so I'm looking at my map. I can't figure it out. And I said, I gotta keep, I gotta keep going.

I know that the minimum, I have to see where this is. And so I kept going and there was a big trail sign that I came up on the back of and stole anybody parking lot with a trail sign. And I came to the other side of the sign and looked at it and the sign said, and a fuller Ridge. and at that point, when I saw that sign, I realized I'd gone all the way across for Ridge without even realizing it because I was expecting something so much scarier than actually was real.

And I, I remember dropping my pack and kicking a pine cone. I was pretty frustrated with myself and frustrated with the situation, [00:10:00] but the, that whole idea of going to gemba and going to see for yourself, Played out a lot throughout that hike. And I, there are other situations where I would hear, Oh, the bridge is out and you're never going to make it.

Or there's no place to resupply in that town. And what I learned was just go see lots of really well intentioned people who are trying to help, who don't have all the right information. And that's the same way in business with go to gemba. That's why they say go to Jamba is yeah, there's lots and lots of information out there and people trying to help, but almost all of it is second hand.

And so in business, not relying on secondhand reports and things, but actually going and seeing for yourself, is a really important thing for a business owner and a leader to understand you've got to have great people, but they're also, there's no substitute for going to see for yourself what's happening and what it is.

And yeah, for me, the biggest [00:11:00] reminder of that, isn't something I learned in lean office training. It's about thinking about fuller Ridge and how I completely missed it because I thought that. There was something scary coming and it wasn't.

Keerstyn: [00:11:14] Yeah, that's fascinating. And I think that's so important to remember what are some of those things that people come to you with in the business world that they are just like, absolutely terrified to do?

like whether that's going to your floor and like actually seeing what's happening or whether that's diving into a specific thing in EOS, what are some of those leadership things that people just. Second hand they're hearing. It's absolutely awful. They're dreading it. They're not looking forward to it, but in reality, it's not walk in the park, no doubt.

but there's ways to have your handheld and make sure to get through it successfully.

Joel: [00:11:52] The biggest thing is dealing with people issues without a doubt, it's scary sometimes to go and look at metrics or [00:12:00] those kinds of things. But the biggest thing is. An underperforming person or a person who is performing well, but doesn't fit the culture and really being afraid to deal with that.

And sometimes the listening to other people comes in the form of other people saying, we can't get rid of Bob because Bob has all this tribal knowledge and we, there's no way we're going to be able to do this without Bob. And so the owner or the leader. The first that person and says, okay, I guess we have to put up with Bob because there's no way we can function without Bob and the leader.

doesn't go look for him or herself to see what's really going on and what this person's actually doing. And yeah, that's by far the biggest thing that I've seen in my business career and especially with my clients is people who are terrified to get rid of somebody. Because of what that'll mean for the company.

And then, we talk about the [00:13:00] 36 hours of paint where you get rid of someone or are you okay? You escort them out the door with your blessing. And do you think that it's going to be terrible and you're in pain for about 36 hours and then it's over, and I had one situation with a client.

Where they had with every single time we were together, they talked about this one employee and all these people issues, and I couldn't get them to do anything about it. And I finally yelled at them and I told them I was going to fire him if they didn't, if they didn't fire, this guy does it. By the time, next time we would get together, either this guy is going to be, he has his act together or he's going to be fired.

And that's what I think that's the only time I've yelled at a client, but it, it's one of those things where it's like, they need to hear this. Yeah. And they were terrified about what it was going to mean. And of course they got rid of him. And what do you know? He really wasn't doing anything and they didn't miss him really at all.

despite all the kind of [00:14:00] posturing he'd done about this role, that he hadn't planned and all the important things he was doing, he really wasn't doing anything substantial and he was doing way more damage than good, but they didn't know that because they didn't go see. And so going to see for yourself, especially with people, issues is really

Keerstyn: [00:14:18] important.

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for sharing that story. That's incredible, honestly, that you were able to find those hidden secrets or hidden ideas from this hike. What are some other things that you learned while doing the hike?

Joel: [00:14:34] the biggest one that's really had the greatest impact on me is. Is the idea of embracing risk with the adventure.

And prior to this hike, I didn't realize this, but I was a very risk averse person. And I tried to portray the image of a risk taker. So in my younger Wilder days, I had dreadlocks and I was snowboarding and, and all that, [00:15:00] just trying to be that and rebel kind of a personality. Yeah. when in reality, what I was doing was working extremely hard to manage all the risks out of my life as much as possible.

And I had no idea that I was truly like that until another situation hiking, where there was the central mountains in California, the high Sierras and the high Sierra is the one place where it can there's some dangerous things because you're going through. Through snowfields. So you're hiking mostly on snow for a couple of weeks, and it's really easy to get lost and it's, you're forwarding frozen rivers and things like that.

So that was a place where I intentionally stayed with a couple of people. But in one part before I hooked up with those other people, I got to the last rail head that where you can possibly get out before going through the, the scary part, which would take a week or two, probably.

[00:16:00] And, somebody, he posted a weather report on the sign there and the weather report essentially said, if you go here, you're, everybody's going to die. And it was a really terrible, scary weather report. And at that exact point, some day hikers came out of the, came out of the forest behind me and walked with a car.

And I said, Can I take her, can I get a ride with you? And they said, yes, I went down out of the mountains and do this. And he'd been in a little town and found a hostel and there was probably a dozen other through hikers there. everybody's sitting around saying, and what are you going to do? Or what are you going to do?

I don't know what you're going to do. And after about a day or two of everybody just asking this question and looking at the weather report every hour, I decided this is ridiculous. And I wanted to go. And so I rallied a group of people and I said, you know what, if we stick together, this could be, there's no doubt that this is going to be scary and there might be some danger, but as long as we commit to stick sticking together on this, [00:17:00] everything will be okay.

And we got to, and I arranged for a ride back up the mountain, which was not easy to do. And so myself and these other three or four people were all sitting outside the hospital, fully packed, fully ready to go about. Five or 10 minutes before a ride was supposed to be there. And another hiker came out and Vince, the other four people to join him on a bus going around the entire high Sierra section.

And I was so pissed, and so scared. And I called my wife to complain. and she listened to me and then very. Very gently said, honey, you tend to want all of the adventure with none of the risks. And yeah, you hear sometimes about people saying they heard something and it was like a punch in the gut.

And that was as close to a punch in the gut from words that I've ever gotten. And she, and I realized, Oh my gosh, my wife is absolutely right. this is who I [00:18:00] am is I want all the adventure. I don't want any of the risks. And that's the way my life has been. Yeah. And, So she encouraged me to go for it by myself.

And I ended up going back up the mountain. And, I remember crying as I was going up because I was terrified and, the guy dropped me off and I started down the scary trail where the weather was supposed to be terrible. And after about a quarter mile, I caught up with a couple of guys that I met.

Earlier in the trip that I really liked. And, I'll never forget it because we were in the mountains, hiking on sand with the snow falling and the sunshine, just crazy things like that happen in the high Sierras. and those are the guys that we decided to stick together for the next couple of weeks and there was risk and there was a couple of times.

Where we did something. And then we of, we said, we're going to pinky swear that we're not going to tell our wives about this one, a couple of things that were like, that [00:19:00] was a little dicey, but there, so there was risk, but there's also, there's no such thing as an adventure without risk and business.

The really the same principle applies as you cannot have. You cannot have a success in business without. Embracing risk, not just putting up with risk, but embracing risk and the best entrepreneurs know that inherently, I did not, but it was something that I learned at that point. And so definitely since then in my career, very much be intentional about not just saying, where is the risk, but how can I embrace the risk?

Along this journey and yeah, you gotta make good decisions and you don't want to be rash and you don't want to be stupid, but the really cool stories don't happen until you step out in faith and embrace the risk. And [00:20:00] a lot of people, I think a lot of people in not a lot of people in business have had to make really risky business decisions.

And so it's harder for people to understand that. And so I think that part of what I really love or have loved about having this experience with this hiking is being able to tell stories in a way that resonates with people that they wouldn't necessarily be able to learn and have it resonate with, if somebody was telling a story about a merger and acquisition that they weren't a part of, because everybody can think about a time when.

They were trying to do something and it was scary and the situation changed under their feet a thing. And so I believe that very strongly that embracing the risk with the adventure is a huge part of success in life. And it's a huge part of success in business and the market rewards, the risk, and [00:21:00] lots of times we are not going to get to our goals.

Without really joining with the risk and accepting it and embracing it as part of what we're doing, knowing that most of the time we'll win, but sometimes we won't and that's okay.

Keerstyn: [00:21:15] Yeah. Have you, what do you do with clients to help them try to embrace this risk? Whether it's a small thing that they need to just start moving that direction, or it's a huge acquisition or merger that they're contemplating and it's.

There's terrifying for them. What are some of those small things that

Joel: [00:21:33] you do to help them? most of the time in what I do with my clients, they don't need to be taught that because the visionary of the company who is typically the entrepreneurial founder, the visionary, somebody that was born understanding this concept.

And so the visionary is the person who is saying, why didn't we do this yesterday? And we should do that acquisition. We should do it. And pushing the team to do more in different and [00:22:00] bigger and better. And so really all I have to do is let off a little bit and let the visionary sell this to the company.

Sometimes I have to pull people along mostly when the, there isn't a really strong, most of the people are a little bit more conservative, more, a little bit more like I was risk averse. And then just pushing them to make a decision and not letting them and talk forever and saying, like making a decision and moving forward is going to be better than making no decision and where people are watching you.

And if you make a decision and you make it the wrong decision and you raise your hand and say, whoops, we screwed up and now we have to change. That will actually increase. Your reputation and your esteem in the eyes of your people. most people, as long as they're open and honest and vulnerable are totally fine with leaders making [00:23:00] mistakes.

What they're not fine with is not having or being what they're not fine with is trying to follow a leader who does not have a plan or is unwilling to make a decision. So a lot of times, that's all I'm doing. If the visionary, if there's not a visionary to push people toward that, I'm pushing them towards saying, you got to just make a decision here.

This isn't just about this decision. This is about what your people are seeing around you. Absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:23:26] I think one of the things that came to mind when you said that too, is failing, is. Actually extremely positive thing in the end, although failing during a hike, it might not be the most positive thing. I'm failing in business and learning from it and growing from it is so incredibly vital and so necessary, especially for an employee to a manager, and understanding that and also supporting it people like you said, when you're more vulnerable and more willing to raise your hand and say, Hey, I messed up, but here's our steps.

To take in the future. So we [00:24:00] don't do this again or make better choices in the future. I think that's so important. And so it makes everyone human too, and people want human. Now. They don't want some fake smile. That's going to somewhat lasts until there's failure and no one owns up to it. And I think you're right on with that.

That's totally right. And I love how you talked about that with your hiking too. That's awesome. And. Extremely important to make sure that you're somewhat taking risks.

Joel: [00:24:30] For sure. Yeah. there are risks everywhere and we've got embracing and we fail and sometimes things go wrong, but usually the consequences of the failure aren't as big as people think they're going to be.

And, but what they learn from it is greater than they think it's going to be. And so I had situations like that hiking as well, where there actually was a failure, or I ran out of food or I got [00:25:00] lost or whatever it was. And it sounds scary if you think about it too much, but if you need to look at well, what's really the worst case scenario here.

The worst case scenario is not that bad. Yeah. And a lot of times in business the same way there are certainly times where you've got to make people have to make a hundred million dollar decisions that are going to change the course of the company or that all affect 500 people and things like that.

But most of the decisions that business leaders need to make the consequences are not that huge. Yeah. Yeah. Way better to embrace the risk and potentially make a mistake and admit that you were wrong and learn from it and increase people's confidence in you. In the meantime. Then try to avoid those things.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Keerstyn: [00:25:45] I am. Thank you for sharing that. That's so important. I think we all need that reminder in whatever we're doing in life, whether it's your job or your personal life. Absolutely. What was the funnest part about this hike? I will, I want to got to dig into that a little bit. Why?

[00:26:00] Yeah. it was the funnest part or the best moment of it.

Joel: [00:26:07] there was. It was really hard.

Keerstyn: [00:26:12] Yeah. I was. I had no doubt about that.

Joel: [00:26:15] I think about backpacking and they think about, Oh, going and looking at mountain views and having campfires and through hiking is different because you're fighting, your enemy is the clock. And if you don't get through the high Sierras in time, or you don't get through the sinus windows in time, or you don't get through the cascades in time, then it snows you out and then you're stuck.

So most of what I did was waking up in the morning, packing up my stuff as fast as I could hiking until I ran out of daylight and then laying down and going to sleep again. the very last night on the trail, I made a campfire just cause I had never done it and I wanted to, so yeah, there's a romantic view of through hiking, to people that have never done it, but it's generally a lot of work and there's not a lot of.

[00:27:00] Those really wonderful experiences. the mountain top experiences are relatively few and far between a couple of the being in the high Sierras and going up and over Mount Whitney, which is 14,000 feet. And yeah, in the middle of the snow is, was really cool. And the people that I was with going up and over Mount Whitney, us in our shorts and our trail runners, some people who had crampons and ice axes.

no, we're just gonna do this. that really fun. The other part that I just loved was, just camping outside. I, in Minnesota where I live, there's usually do, on the ground in the morning. And so if you lay outside to sleep without a shelter, you wake up all wet. when I was hiking, that was very rarely the case.

And so most of the time I didn't even set up a shelter. I just pulled out my sleeping bag and laid down and went to sleep, not with the [00:28:00] stars because there was most of the time there was no clouds or very few clouds. So you could fall asleep, looking at the stars out without any light pollution in a way that you can't do in Minneapolis.

So that was, it's probably the biggest kind of. Overall a repeating, recurring joy that I got out of it was doing that.

Keerstyn: [00:28:23] Absolutely. And what was the hardest thing do you think

Joel: [00:28:29] you can edit out silence. And so I'm going to think a second.

the hardest thing was not giving up when I want to do, I told you that it was, there's a fair amount of through writing. That's kind of drudgery and there's times that it sucks. Like I've lived in Minnesota my whole life and I thought. [00:29:00] I'd seen bad mosquitoes and the sense that it didn't hold a candle to some of the mosquito issues that I found in a few different places or, just being in the extreme heat for day after day.

some of that stuff was really hard and I'd hitchhike into town to resupply and. Eat a whole bunch of food and break a couple of years and then call my wife and say, okay, I'm ready to come home. And she'd be like, no, you are not allowed to quit.

Not quitting when there's a glorious end in sight is a romantic thing, not quitting when there is no glorious end in sight. And it's just more drudgery is really hard and really scary. And that's. That was probably the hardest aspect, but honestly, is the aspect. I think that served me the best in what I do professionally is that grit.

And just being able to say, [00:30:00] I show up every day and I make the same. I make the same difficult, correct decisions over and over and over and over and over and over. And ultimately that one step at a time is what's going to get me to the top of the mountain, not some kind of a radical transformational experience.

Keerstyn: [00:30:16] Absolutely. And I think you stated something that I is really important that you need those people that keep you going and like your wife was that for you. And to say, no, keep on going. You are close and there might not be glorious things at the end of whatever hardships we will face. But to have those people by your side to say, Hey, you got it.

Keep going. You're going to get there. That's so important. Especially in business to have mentors and. Coaches and consultants like yourself. that's so important. Absolutely.

Joel: [00:30:48] Our society is very individualistic and there's this idea that if you're going to be truly successful, you've got to stand on your own, facing the wind and the glory and [00:31:00] dealing with all of the chaos.

And that certainly happens sometimes, but I don't believe that's the way we were created to live. And I don't believe that ultimately that's the way to find joy. I think that the way to find the joy is in working with other people. And so the same, yeah. The same way, like you said, that my wife was at that foundation for me, and there's no way that I could have made it without her, in businesses, a lot of the same way, whether it's a CEO peer group or it's a, an EOS implementer like myself, or it's an executive coach, not trying to do it all on your own.

is really important. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:31:37] absolutely. It's hard to do it on your own. You don't even want to try to do it on your own for sure. And sometimes you have to though, of fight you learn and you grow and you keep on getting support from your people,

Joel: [00:31:48] for sure. Absolutely. Awesome

Keerstyn: [00:31:50] Joel. I'm really glad we had this conversation.

I love learning a little bit about your hike, although I'm sure there are thousands of other stories that you could share. what are [00:32:00] some ways that people could get in contact with you to either talk about your hike or talk to about your us implementation company? Or just to get to know you a little bit better?

Yeah.

Joel: [00:32:09] I am on LinkedIn, Joel Swanson and. My company is mile one. Am I L E O N E. And incidentally, that comes from, from an experience hiking. So if people want to read that story, it's on my website. my website is mile one teams.com and I love to talk about business and I love to talk about hiking and I love to talk about growth and adventures and whatever that looks like.

So I would welcome people to reach out to me, regardless of whether or not they want to talk about. How to embrace the risk with the adventure in their business, or they just want to talk about how to do the cool things outside. Like I love connecting with cool people.

Keerstyn: [00:32:49] Yeah,

Joel: [00:32:50] absolutely. File one and teams.com.

We will put

Keerstyn: [00:32:53] it in the show notes so that people have easy access to that. So any listeners who want to continue to talk to Joel? [00:33:00] Absolutely. thanks for chatting today. I have so many more questions that I want to ask you, but we'll cut it here so that people can reach out to you to do

Joel: [00:33:06] Sounds great.

Thanks for having me on the show. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:33:08] absolutely.

View Details

Mike joins us on the podcast to chat about what it is like being part of a family business and how we can learn to be proactive instead of reactive. As an EOS implementer, he has walked the walk and understands why it can be hard to get to where you need to go, but it is possible to do strategically.

Where can you find Mike?
Linkedin
His website

Full Transcription below (May contain typo's...):
[00:00:00] Mike: [00:00:00] There was, everything was urgent and important all the time or at least that's what it felt like.

We had about seven family members involved, at the time through various points of that journey. So I had three, I had my father three uncles. I had my cousin, my brother, and then ultimately I didn't feel like that was enough. So we hired my wife, in the latter parts of it as if it wasn't complicated enough at that point.

And so there was a lot of blend in mixing of. you have ownership, you have leadership, you have employee, then you have family member. Like all those dynamics were just intermixed. And so you never knew where you were coming from and who you were talking to in the way, it was all intermixed.

And so that created a lot of confusion. In hindsight, when I look back at it, because there were certain assumptions that in our family business, Hey, your family, you're dedicated. You're [00:01:00] gonna, you're gonna be here all hours, day and night. And you're gonna make sure you're opening and closing.

there was like these assumptions that would go on among all of us. And then if certain family members didn't do that, it was like looked down upon, There was no intention of that, of that happening to look down upon it. But that's a feeling like an underlying current that was there.

Keerstyn: [00:01:48] welcome to the podcast, Mike. Kotsis. I am really excited to talk to you today about EOS and entrepreneurship and how you help your people grow. Can you just give us a brief background [00:02:00] of how you got involved in your work and then what you do now?

Mike: [00:02:03] Sure absolutely first, thanks for having me here today.

Excited to be on the podcast and to connect with you and to share the message with, with others. Yeah, so a little bit of, background, for me, I won't go all the way back, but just before becoming an EOS implementer, I was running my family's business, Atlas wholesale food company in Detroit.

So ran it for seven years. my grandfather started, the company came over from Greece and. we're Greeks and what do you do? You get in the food business? and so we, had service specialty items to a Greek town and. family diners around Metro Detroit. And man, I learned about my family and a whole new way.

being a Greek and ethnic family that, there was a lot of screaming and shouting and, I had come from the corporate world before that, and it was just a culture shock. I was wondering like, what the heck did I get myself into? and, I quickly realized like, Hey, they're just, [00:03:00] everybody's excited.

Whether it's something meaningful or not, we would just get really excited. And I just found myself in this place that, that I just knew, we had to get some agreement of where we were going to take the company and how we were going to do that. I didn't know how we were going to do that or what we were going to do at the time.

It just knew we had to agree. And over time we were able to generate that agreement and be able to develop that plan of where we were going to go. And, made some key people changes around the team. And at that time I wish I knew about EOS. I didn't, but it would have helped us to do everything.

We went through so much faster and simpler than the way we did it on our own. But ultimately we grew the company during the last downturn in our economy. Seven two Oh nine timeframe. And, the best part about it was is that we had a team of accountable people in place. We were profitable, we were growing and, just realized at that time that everybody else is going through that same type of thing, whether [00:04:00] you're a family business or not.

And I just felt this calling within me to help others. And I. I didn't know how I was going to do it at the time or what I was going to do. I just started doing it through a Walsh college at the time, had peer groups for family business owners in Southeast Michigan. So this is in the Troy area and I started helping some other, friends and colleagues of mine to navigate through some of the challenges, similar to what I had gone through.

And that's when I had discovered EOS. And I, I realized that was the vehicle that, that I could use to help do instead of sitting down, talking about what we might do, which I felt like we were spending too much time doing, rather than actually doing it. UOS was a framework that, eliminated all that.

what are you going to do? How are you going to do it to actually just doing it and being with the team and helping the facilitate their vision and plan. And so this was a little over nine years ago that I, ultimately made the plunge and became an [00:05:00] EOS implementer and started my own business.

Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:05:03] That's a fascinating background, especially with the family business and the downturn of. The recession basically. And then how you guys got out of that and on a more positive note too, that's very impressive. And, definitely impactful. I'm sure. I think I, you definitely, I'm sure I have a million stories about, how you guys got through that and why EOS would have been a positive.

they that in for sure. For sure. What was some of those things that you struggled with your family business and specifically, was it like one or two things that you could, just talk about and maybe how you guys went through it and then how it would be applicable now with EOS?

Mike: [00:05:43] Yeah, sure. There was, everything was urgent and important all the time or at least that's what it felt like.

We had about seven family members involved, at the time through various points of that journey. So I had three, I had my father three uncles. I had my [00:06:00] cousin, my brother, and then ultimately I didn't feel like that was enough. So we hired my wife, in the latter parts of it as if it wasn't complicated enough at that point.

And so there was a lot of blend in mixing of. you have ownership, you have leadership, you have employee, then you have family member. Like all those dynamics were just intermixed. And so you never knew where you were coming from and who you were talking to in the way, it was all intermixed.

And so that created a lot of confusion. In hindsight, when I look back at it, because there were certain assumptions that in our family business, Hey, your family, you're dedicated. You're gonna, you're gonna be here all hours, day and night. And you're gonna make sure you're opening and closing.

there was like these assumptions that would go on among all of us. And then if certain family members didn't do that, it was like looked down upon, There was no intention of [00:07:00] that, of that happening to look down upon it. But that's a feeling like an underlying current that was there.

And so that made it more challenging. And, just a funny story, just to give you the example of the types of issues that we dealt with. Like we, in an old building on the East side of Detroit, near the city airport and. There, this building was right off of the freeway. It still is still there.

And my cousins running the business today and doing a phenomenal job with it, but just the building itself had different roof leaks that would occur after the winter freeze and thaw every year. so it's like you're chasing all these different patches, this giant flat roof over the warehouse and freezers and all that stuff.

And so then you get a different leak and my brother at the time was, he was interning. It was he's younger. And so he was interning at that time. And so we imagined clearly just said, Hey, can you go fix the roof leak? He's never fixed the roof leak in his life. And, he went up there and, you went up and back a couple of times, and then he's said [00:08:00] roughly fixed, awesome.

And like, how did you do it? he said, I went, I took this bucket of tar and I went up there and, I did run into a little bit of a problem though. He said that, one of the first part when I was fixing it, I, I stepped on a soft patch and I made the hole bigger.

We're like, what are you kidding me? You made the hole bigger. that, how did you fix it? And so what he said is that, he ultimately showed us, he, we took this big olive barrel. So we used to import olives, back in the day in these 50 gallon drums. And he moved the olive barrel. Under the roof leak on the second floor of the offices and funneled a tarp with bungee cords.

So that any drips would, that would come through would go into the. Go to the olive barrel. And, and so Hey, in his mind, it's fixed in her mind. We're like, not fixed, but did we actually fix it? No, we went weeks with an even a month. I think a month went by when would, we would just consciously go in after every rainstorm, even on the weekends to go empty [00:09:00] that olive barrel.

So it wouldn't overflow. And you guess it, and it's only a matter of time that olive barrel. the big storm hit and that thing overflowed and it flooded the office and it leaked down to the first floor and it just created this big mess. And we're like this ridiculous, like the amount of time and energy we put into just patching over this issue, when we could have fixed it the right way, the first time, cause ultimately said, forget this.

We're going to bring in a contractor and go and fix it. And he fixed it for less than 500 bucks. Yeah, less than 500 bucks. And the moral of that story is that, that is the same type of thing that would happen throughout the whole business is that there were all these bandaids, or as all this patchwork that we were doing, because we didn't feel like there was enough time to fix it all.

So you just do what you can in the moment and just hope it shakes out our right. And that, caused us more work, more pain, more money, and more time. until we were able to make [00:10:00] a flip and really start driving alignment, with the leadership team and focus on what was truly most important.

Keerstyn: [00:10:06] Yeah, absolutely. I love that story. I think that's so applicable. And that's so a in parallel with all the issues that might be going on in businesses that we just patch them up and they're wood in the olive barrel. And I hope it lasts for two months or so until it blows up again, for sure. What would, They one of the tools that you would then prescribe to someone who is feeling these type of things with an EOS, what's the number one tool that, you would ultimately say, Hey, this is going to be, where you should start or, this is really gonna help you get aligned or whatever that may be.

Mike: [00:10:42] Yeah. So the number one tool, I think for people to be able to get their heads over and at least start is, through the level 10 meeting. the level 10 meeting is something that's easy to get your head around and start using as an agenda framework every single week [00:11:00] to start. Processing issues as they surface.

if you just use that standalone yeah. Without everything else for a long period of time, you won't get a ton of value from it. But at the beginning, just to start communicating, getting on the same page with what's important and what's not, and helping to align everybody's energy around the same things any given week.

And that's just a great tool way to do that. I remember, when I was running meetings, Early on. I, so I make, I made every mistake that I see my clients making too. I, we didn't start on time on our meetings. We didn't end on time. They just went for a long time. It had a huge, massive agenda.

We never get through everything. And, I would try and I would rope everybody in to try to nail it out. And then we'd all be exhausted. We wouldn't have the clear accountability and action actions coming out of it. And, That level 10 meeting and getting the leadership team's heads around that really eliminates all that [00:12:00] distraction and noise and really helps you to hone and focus and drive everybody's energy forward faster. how I said the most valuable thing in the business is The level 10 meeting, at least as a starting point, I believe that's also true in your family and having, having a weekly family meeting. And so it seems really weird at first, Because people are like, okay, Our family is not a business, right? So we talk about family and family, business and business, but we talk about home life in, if we're putting so much value in the business world of making sure the right people are connected at the right intervals at the right time, with the most meaningful stuff and business supports our life.

In life is more important. Why aren't we doing that in our home life in? And so in our home life, we do a Jill and I do a weekly meeting. And then we do a weekly meeting with our kids too. [00:13:00] And so every week with, I'll talk about. Our kids meeting is that 30 minutes. Once a week, we connect on a, same day, same time, same place, because we all can look forward to that same time and place to do it.

and we check in just like you do in a level 10 meeting with some good news to help get everybody's mindset in the same place. We have rocks in our family, most important priorities that we all agree upon. and we review those to see if we're on track or off track. We also have a habit commitment, a daily habit commitment that we all commit to.

And, it's different for each of us and it changes every quarter, but we say, are we on track with that? So we need any help. and, we do value shout outs. so with our core values are up on our wall in our house. And we, just, this is our opportunity to recognize each other.

So my kids are younger, right? So nine, eight, four, and 20 months. And so the nine and eight year old are the most involved in this whole thing. And [00:14:00] so we recognize each other for demonstrating one of our family values. In the recent week. And when we do, we have these little poof balls that we put into a poof ball jar.

And when that jar fills up, so the top we do a family fun events. We do something cool and exciting as a family together. The only key is that you can, you can't recognize yourself for using one of the values. You have to recognize somebody else for something they did that day or that week.

And that helps us to really live in align with those values and then we process issues. So any issue, any idea that, we want to have friends over, we want to do this, we want this is what we have coming up. We process those together and we do a calendar review just a week out, get everybody's heads in the same place about what's going on over the rest of the week.

Can, over the weekend. And it just aligns everybody so much. No, I'm not going to lie. The first several months of this was excruciating trying to do it with our kids because I would run away, but they look forward [00:15:00] to it now because in their most exciting part of the whole meeting is the calendar review.

They just want to know what's happening, what's coming up and they just get so eager and excited by that. Wow.

Keerstyn: [00:15:08] Awesome. That's so cool. I love that. That's it? I feel like initially it would be a little bit odd just because you have to get over the hurdle of. Of Elton meeting within your family and your parents or your kids.

but I could see that really working and really, getting you all together and being excited about being a family and, being in the same house and what life looks like and how you guys have been going to continue to grow together. That's awesome.

Mike: [00:15:37] Yeah, absolutely. it's been a huge blessing for our family and, And several other friends that we have shared that with two that have adapted, did it for, and their households.

And, it really works. It helps us to communicate. And, it helps us to get in the right frame of mind when we can communicate. because the last piece of that is the why it works is that, most of the time when we're trying to make decisions [00:16:00] in our family life or in our households, is that man, if it's at the end of the day, We're usually pretty exhausted, right?

Maybe your spouse comes in and your spouse is excited and wants to make these decisions. And then, you meet, I'm just checked out. I don't want to make a decision, but we do make a decision. And it's usually not a very good one because we're not in the right place to mind. When you have that.

When we realized that the family meeting ends up. Replacing that we realized that we both bring our energy level up. We both realized like, Hey, we're both getting in the right head space to be able to tackle this stuff. And, and to be able to sort it all out in, and that makes a world of difference that in itself.

Keerstyn: [00:16:41] Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's a really important part of Vos, especially just to get that initial starting base and. Actually having a discussion that's wrapped around concepts, such as issues or, different rocks or goals, you might say that, you actually need to achieve in the 90 days. I think [00:17:00] that's another thing that you mentioned in there that there were so many different ideas and really a lot of excitement around.

A ton of stuff, but you can't spread yourself thin like that. And I think that's sometimes something that a company just doesn't understand. They think that they have enough, a willpower and manpower just to make it happen, but it's, you can only do so much. so you can't wear a thousand hats at once, basically.

Yeah. I think that's a very valuable thing. Absolutely. I would love to talk about the VTO too, and how your organization almost, make shifted a VTO at the time, and now how you help your clients with that. Because I think that it's a really valuable tool with an EOS.

Mike: [00:17:41] Yeah, for sure it drives the alignment and energy, or especially if there's more than one owner, more than one family member and it gets everybody's heads going to one place.

And so that VTO is the vision traction organizer, and that's what really starts aligning at the core. do you share the same core values? Is the business [00:18:00] focused in. The same area from everybody's mindset. Is it really, do you, have you really identified that sweet spot and ultimately are aligned around the big goal that you want.

And then from there, everything works backwards back to the point that today to decide, are we doing the right things that are leading us closer to that are pushing us further away? And what would I find if you don't mind? I want to take a little bit of a personal tangent on this with the, with that VTO, that vision alignment.

What I found in our own lives and in several of my client's lives is that they really have to understand the why they want that big goal. Why do they want it? Over the longterm. It's not about the bunny. It's something bigger than that. And it's something very personal to them. And so I believe every, founder, owner visionary, and ultimately every employee has to be clear on their why and their own [00:19:00] why and their own goals.

personally, professionally all get wrapped into one in the clear you are on your own. Why. And your own goals in life. You can then, speaking from an owner or a visionary or a leadership team member hat, you can then figure you're out. The business goals need to align with that to help you achieve what you want in life.

and that. Wine meant so many people gloss. They get into the business for one reason, and then it just overwhelms us over time is what I find. and then we lose that, that initial Y or that Y changes. And we don't even, we don't even notice it because we're so buried with everything else going on.

We feel this is my thing, and I just have to, and you almost lose your identity. I know I did in running our family business, I. I had didn't have a separation in my mind of whether, me being different from the business was didn't exist at the time because I was so committed [00:20:00] to upholding our family legacy and really helping take that business to the next level, all that, I did whatever it took, whether it's, whether it's talking to the biggest customer or going down to.

our biggest customer to go, to collect a check, create a new contract, or, there'll be plunging toilets, later that day, if whatever it took and so in all that noise, you end up losing. You ended up losing that bigger picture, you lose your own. Why? And so when you're clear on your own, why it helps you to really align the business, why, and then that gets everybody else involved so that they can align with that as well.

Does that make sense?

Keerstyn: [00:20:39] Absolutely. How did you get back to your why?

Mike: [00:20:43] what, what I did is, It was actually at the time, I, in a core reason why I selected to become an EOS implementer was, in there. Yeah. Transition time when I was searching of finding how I could help other businesses and other, other leaders. [00:21:00]

I was searching for the right vehicle or right path. And I didn't know what that was going to be. And I, and through this search, we had so many different options. it was over overwhelming of the past that we could possibly take. And it had dawned on me, don't ask me why it dawned on me.

It dawned on me at one point in this, in the midst of all this noise that. Way back in college, I had written a life plan, play paper in an entrepreneurship class. It was a brand new thing at the university of Michigan at the time. And I pulled it out. It was a 10 page paper. I read it. I was blown away at how many life goals that I had written about in that paper actually came true.

like when I'd be married, How many kids I'd have. there, it was just, it was more mind-boggling and I shared that with my wife and I'm like, this is unreal. We've never done this together. Why have we never done something like this together? And when I was researching becoming an EOS [00:22:00] implementer, the VTO for the business side, I had stumbled upon the family plan template.

And that is a family version of the VTO, that us worldwide has created. And I said to my wife, Jill, we've got to do this. It's a two page template. It's not going to be a 10 page paper, cause, Oh my God, she would not have gone for that. And it just, it helped us to come back and just our own family core values, our family passions.

What is our big goal in life? And then it helped us to develop our dreams list. Like we always would dream about big things that we wanted to do, but actually taking the act and getting them down on paper made them way more real. And we created a three year picture or one year plan and we had family quarterly rocks.

and so when we did that exercise all the sudden yeah. Those opportunities that we were looking at became so much more clear [00:23:00] that we realized that. I was able to immediately say no to a lot of those opportunities because it didn't fit. It didn't fit part of the plan in, and type of life that we wanted to build together.

And then when I had really dug into EOS, I realized that was a path for me in terms of, in my professional path, in our family path, that could be a vehicle from the professional side to help. Satisfy a life of purpose where we're making a meaningful, chronic contribution. It satisfied a life of financial independence that we could be potentially achieved through a lot of hard work and a life of flexibility.

So that. You know that we could be home. I could be present at the time. We had only, we had one child at the time with number two on the way. now we have four and, we wanted to create a path where Jill could be home [00:24:00] full time. That's what we both wanted. And so that we could both, raise our family and be, be home and present together.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:24:07] absolutely. That's awesome. I'm so glad that you shared that and how you got to that realization. That's really cool and really impactful. I'm sure. Especially for you. Absolutely. If you had one piece of advice for a family business, what would

Mike: [00:24:23] you tell them? One piece of advice?

So one piece of advice would be.

To clarify their own passions. And if they don't align it's okay. Life is too short. You don't have to work together. That's ultimately what I realized with my cousin and I and our family business too. He was way more passionate [00:25:00] about the business and God bless him. Thank God he was because he's carried that business to a whole nother level.

And he it, yeah. At his core, he loves that. And I'm doing what I love to do now, too. But if we were forcing each other to stay together, to do that, to take that, that company on a whole nother level in we're both really not committed in our core for the right reasons at the same time, then. then that would have caused way more damage in our relationship and in our extended family.

And that's, it's not worth it. Life's too short. You all have, I believe we have individual gifts, the gifts and talents to use in the clearer. We can be on that and be true to that, the better off we are. And then ultimately the contribution to the world that we make will be.

Keerstyn: [00:25:51] Yeah, absolutely.

Thanks for that. I'm sure that family businesses and businesses alike will be able to, be able to take that away and actually, realize that [00:26:00] they don't have to always be together or, might not align perfectly. Absolutely. Awesome. Mike, is there any place that people can contact you if they want to get in touch with you?

Mike: [00:26:10] Yeah, sure. You can visit my website. It's www.gpsforsmallbusiness.com and my phone number email is all right on the website. Sweet.

Keerstyn: [00:26:23] thank you so much, Mike, for joining us today, this has been fun to hear about your family business and how you got involved in it, and then how you are an EOS implementer now.

Mike: [00:26:32] Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate the time. And it's great connecting with you.

View Details

Justin joins me on the podcast to talk about personal development and the benefits too investing in your self. Not only is he passionate about helping organizations figure out how to invest in their people but is also passionate about helping individuals find what truly gets them excited everyday.

You can find Justin on:
Linkedin
His website
His phone number: (574) 596-6957
His email: justin@justinmaust.com

Transcription below (May contain typos):

[00:00:00] Justin: [00:00:00] You have to own the personal disciplines. Of your personal life daily. if I'm not taking care of my personal self daily, then I can't possibly take care of my team. I'm going to be a little disheveled. I'm going to be a little disorganized. And so own it daily kind of encompasses, clarifying the win, executing the win, celebrating and evaluating your performance and your people and your numbers.

it's refusing to be offended. It's using the simple, direct, respectful communication. It's removing issues daily. All of the own it daily comes into one line called success, loves discipline. [00:01:00]

Keerstyn: [00:01:10] Welcome to the podcast, Justin. I am really excited that you're here today. Do you want to just give us a brief intro of how you got involved in your work and then what you do now for your clients?

Justin: [00:01:20] Yeah. So I was, I've always been like a, an athlete and kind of, as I got out of college, I played a little college basketball, so I've always been a coach personality and just had, I think entrepreneurship in my genes. Cause when I was 23, I'm a, I retired early from college and so I went into Edward Jones.

They offered me an opportunity to pick it office anywhere in the country. And I kinda cut my teeth on really. Building relationships with high performing individuals that had a lot of wealth. And I just had a blast building relationships, but I'd rather have a case of gout than actually do portfolio reviews.

[00:02:00] And After I left Edward Jones, they had offered me a limited partnership. I went into my brother and I started a character and leadership youth mentoring program. And it just exploded. We went from, I think, five volunteers to, 300 coaches is going into public schools impacting. 3000 students a week and we were teaching five core values.

So I was the business guy of that nonprofit. My brother was the curriculum and the coach, the head coach leading the students and the coaches. And that's when I just realized, man, I had a passion to build team and about seven years in to launching that nonprofit called five star life. I just knew I had to get back into the marketplace.

And so I started my own leadership training company in 2012 called entree legacy group. So that's how I got here and what I do on a daily basis. I, any given day, I'm working with, 20 to 30 different. leadership teams and I'm helping them [00:03:00] implement, the entrepreneurial operating system.

I've been doing a lot of keynote speaking. I'm just passionate about teams and I'm passionate about growing

Keerstyn: [00:03:07] things. Awesome. Yeah, that's a great background. That's really cool that you started that nonprofit and really found a passion for coaching people and helping. People and organizations grow.

Absolutely. Awesome. So yeah, one of the things that Justin does, that's really unique, he is he has the six practices for successful leaders. Do you want a quick run through what all seven are? and then we can dive deeper into them.

Justin: [00:03:32] Yeah, so real quick, these seven practices of great leaders, it of came from I'm up.

I'm a really simple guy, Kiersten. And so for me to grab a hold of something, it had to be simple and it had to be repeatable and had to be actionable. so for me, the first three practices are what I would call. blocking and tackling, like it's just foundational practices, every single team and [00:04:00] every single individual needs to apply to their life or their business.

So the first one is clarify the win. Whatever you're doing, you have to clarify it. What do you want? And obviously when I'm working with EOS, we have the vision traction organizer, and there's really eight questions you have to answer. But at the end of the day, you got to clarify the win. What do you want?

And once you know what you want, the second practice is you have to execute, right? And the, when so many people are too busy doing. A hundred different things and they're going like quarter inch deep and they're not executing in the vein, in the activity. That's actually going to get them a result they're just busy and they don't know how to separate effective, active work from the, from the minutia.

And so executing that is huge. The third practices celebrate an event, how you weight the win. So how many teams are starving for. Their boss to recognize [00:05:00] them or their, the department had to recognize their performance. So you've got to celebrate those victories on the same side. On the other side, the coin though, celebrating and evaluating are two sides of that same coin.

If you're a leader that does not know how to evaluate or you don't like confrontation, or you're not willing to put the real numbers in front of people, you can't evaluate failure. And so for me, winning or losing, I want to be evaluating performance. So those are the first three practices. And the last, I think the last four, what I would call.

The emotional IQ practices or the momentum building practices. And this is where, you might have great goals, have great disciplines. Maybe you know how to look at the numbers and face reality, but you suck at dealing with people. And so these four

Keerstyn: [00:05:52] practices

Justin: [00:05:54] are what I call, the first, the fourth practices, USD, our communication uses.

[00:06:00] Simple direct, respectful communication. And then if you're willing to be super direct and very respectful, then you need to also practice five is refuse to be offended. So many cultures are toxic because people get offended in a wedge. It gets built or a brick wall gets built between you and them. And now you're dead to me and I'm not willing to run through a brick wall all for you because you've offended me and I have not gotten.

No for that offense and offense over time erodes the relationship and it creates apathy, bitterness, and people don't understand that offense is a toxic killer. It's the beginning of a toxic culture. The sixth practice is pretty simple. Remove the ripple, every company, every person we have issues, whether they're personal relational issues or whether [00:07:00] they're performance issues or whether they're process issues, but companies are ripe with issues.

Cause we're a bunch of people working together, And the best teams solve issues. And then lastly, Probably my favorite practice is just recognizing you have to own it daily. The turtle wins the race, the, in that little book, the childhood book,

Keerstyn: [00:07:24] a

Justin: [00:07:25] rabbit, because it's this methodical disciplined.

Daily grinding. You've just got to own it daily. And so I've made my line is success, love, discipline. And if you don't love discipline, you will never find the success that you really want. So that kind of wrapped up these seven practices of great leaders.

Keerstyn: [00:07:51] Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad that you walked through those and, dove a little bit deeper into their meeting and what really makes them purposeful.

What [00:08:00] are some of those things that people struggle with when they're trying to walk through these seven different things? what are those hiccups that they first, run into?

Justin: [00:08:09] So the first thing I think a lot of leaders miss, I think that, personal leadership, like my personal life and my business.

We've talked about this earlier Kiersten, but you can't separate a human being. You can't be awesome in business and yeah. really suck in your personal life. if you're being authentic to yourself. You are who you are and it's going to catch up with you somewhere. You're going to have regrets.

I think one of the biggest, what would I say? The biggest misses the leaders is they don't have clarity as to what they really want. So that first practice is clarify the win. Like literally establishing a life purpose, establishing a vision that lights you up personally. And then once you have that vision, you've got to articulate what is my [00:09:00] company's vision?

what am I, what gets me lit up to show up to work every day. And it's gotta be bigger than your freaking product. don't hang your product as your vision. So where do you want to go? How do you want to get there? And Jim Collins calls it your big, hairy, audacious goal. I think Simon Sinek came out with this new book called the infinite game.

And it's this idea when you read Jim Collins and Simon Sinek, they're talking about this vision. That is, you never really achieve it because it's not a finite goal. It's infinite. It never is going to end. And so just personally for me, Man. I want to bless people. I have six words that kind of articulate my purpose.

So I want to bless people. I want to grow companies and I want to fund ministry. And that the key that I want to say here, it doesn't matter. Kiersten, if you think, I think my vision is awesome or not. I'm jacked about it. This is an [00:10:00] internal thing for me, but what I do is I try to help people. Articulate.

What is it that you would wake up every day for the rest of your life running after you've got to get clarity around why you exist your internal fire. What's why your why? So I help companies do that, whether it's an individual or whether it's a business. We've got to help them articulate. What's their why and what is their laser-focused we call it the purpose cause or passion, and then your niche.

What's your niche, what you can invest in the world at. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:10:35] absolutely. Do you have a story about someone who has jumped from not really knowing their purpose to being like on fire about obviously you just said yours, but, I think that'd be cool to hear.

Justin: [00:10:47] I can speak from me personally. when I really grabbed a hold of what I'm going to commit the rest of my life to, it gave me laser focus as to man, I do not [00:11:00] want to miss many days where I'm not on mission.

And so I give myself a lot of grace. There's a lot of error. There's a lot of mistakes, but I'm always holding onto. It's a, it's like a filtering mechanism for a minute, make better decisions in terms of, because of how I'm leading my team, the decisions we make of how we spend money. Is this gonna help me bless people?

Is this going to help me grow the company? Is this gonna help me fund the ministry? And yeah, for me, it's You can tell when someone has a white, hot vision they're excited about. And when someone is trying to create a vision statement that will impress people, one is resonate to your core and it's going to actually affect your decision, making the other one.

Is just going to be weak and even your team members are going to go. Yeah, that sounds like corporate speak.

Keerstyn: [00:11:50] Yeah. No, but you're so right.

Justin: [00:11:52] Wants to be a part of it, a leader's vision when it's just a bunch of corporate speak, like that's not inspiring to me. And [00:12:00] so there's, I don't know. I think it was, Megan element wrote an article and there was these five things that drove people crazy about, Oh, what's drove him crazy about their leaders.

And so I'm gonna read these five things. It's, let me find it, cause I don't wanna, I don't want to mess it up. You're going to have to edit this.

Keerstyn: [00:12:23] I already wrote down the number. Don't worry.

Justin: [00:12:25] so here's the five things. Number one, my boss fails to inspire me. Number two, my boss accepts mediocrity.

Number three, my boss lacks clear vision erection and number four for my boss is unable to collaborate and be a team player. And number five, my boss fails to walk the talk, those five flaws that drive people crazy about their boss. I did some research Reno. I was working with an afterschool program. [00:13:00] And the number one reason high school students drop out of school.

Their response was my teacher failed to inspire me. So you have the two number, one reasons in business. My boss fails to inspire me in school. My teacher failed inspire me. We have an inspiration gap that we are letting. Letting our companies down letting our team members down because we, as leaders, aren't articulating and are living personally, aren't living inspired.

Like we all have a vision that we're running after. And so it's a big deal. You gotta have a vision and it's got to light you

Keerstyn: [00:13:36] up. Yeah. That's a huge deal. I think, especially having a personal vision too, is. really important, in terms of being able to walk into whatever you're doing that and actually being passionate about it, I've heard that, easily over 70% of the workplace is disengaged and that 70% of managers don't even know what their employees are doing simply because they lack that vision and lack that [00:14:00] excitement and inspiration.

Within the workplace and it's, that's a religion.

Justin: [00:14:05] Yeah. Three out of every four employees report that their boss is the worst and most stressful part of their job. This was a survey done by Meghan helmet on inc magazine, 75% of people that work in the workforce say that their boss is the worst, most stressful part of their job.

And Part of what I do with EOS is I'm trying to help bring health to that leadership team because as goes the leadership team, so goes the rest of the org. And honestly, a lot of times leadership teams are more dysfunctional than functional. And they're not trying to do that. They just don't have the right tools.

they're missing, they have a few gaps and so EOS and my passion is to help bridge some of those gaps to get clarity and get alignment and get us all running in the same direction.

Keerstyn: [00:14:52] Yeah, absolutely. That's really important. And I like that quote is I forget who said it, but, you [00:15:00] don't quit your job.

You quit your manager. Sure. And because you're building healthy teams and healthy leadership teams for that matter, you're able to then. Actually have sustainable, employment, sustainable excitement, sustainable vision and, growth because of that's

Justin: [00:15:16] huge, but without the vision, without execution is hallucination.

And so as much as you and I have just talked about the importance of having vision. We both know some people that they're great dreamers, like they have lots of vision, but there's no execution in their backbone. They have no. Daily routines, no disciplines. The team is dysfunctional because they're not accountable.

They're not gaining traction. And it's because they don't have good processes and good work ethic backing that vision. And so that's why practice too is execute on that win and. For [00:16:00] me, I, this is just moment of truth here. So I was, 36 years old and I just got certified with the John Maxwell team as a speaker trainer coach.

And I honestly, I showed up late to one of my kids.

Keerstyn: [00:16:16] No.

Justin: [00:16:17] And I was like, Oh my gosh, I have a procrastination issue. And this is after I achieved some level of success at Edward Jones. I helped launch this five star nonprofit and I'm 36 years old and I answered a Twitter message at one, a 1:00 AM.

And I bought a program. How to overcome procrastination in 21 days because I wasn't executing. And so execute the win is there's so many teams. I think Kiersten, probably the, I have declared war on habitual mediocrity. I hammer this wherever I go [00:17:00] is we're losing, not because of major failures for the most part we're losing because we have accepted habitual mediocrity.

And habitual is just something you do naturally without thinking anymore. It's just a habit, right? What, when your habit is me, the ACQUITY as a leader, as a performer, as a person that gets things done, when you have a low bar of execution, You are not delivering your a game. And so execute the win is about rooting out some of that mediocrity and trying to instill some disciplines in some routines that level up your game as a person and level up your game as a team.

So that's really what execute the win is all about. It's identifying. What are those focused functions that I have to do and I have to stop doing a lot of other things. What do

Keerstyn: [00:17:53] you think is

Justin: [00:17:53] the,

Keerstyn: [00:17:56] what do you think is the hardest part for people to get over that hump? [00:18:00] I have heard a lot of entrepreneurs that do 101 things a day, and they're struggling to figure out the absolute focus of we need to go down this path.

What are some of those hurdles, but then also some wins with that.

Justin: [00:18:14] whatever you think tolerate, you endorse a couple lines that, that I believe people, their lack of awareness in terms of what they're doing. So for me, I recognize it. I was aware that I was procrastinating and I said, I have got to stop this.

So it's the recognition that something's not working. And then it's trying to pinpoint what is it? And so for me, what I did is I literally. Took a journal and I began tracking my reality. I started time tracking everything, and I wanted to see the truth and be careful when you tell yourself that you want to see the truth, cause execute the win.

If you [00:19:00] literally track your whole day and you do this for a month. You will see a lot of room for it improvement. And so I think the biggest hurdle is people either are too busy to become really aware of what the truth is. But what does Jim Rohn say? When the pain to stay the same is greater than the pain to change.

That's when you'll change. So as a leader, my, the pain of my mediocrity, the pain of my procrastination was so great that I'm like, man, I want so badly to get out of that mode. I want to be a different person. I did whatever it took to face the reality. So I started tracking my time in my journal.

I took that procrastination course and it said you should create a daily agenda. And so literally I have probably 20. 25 books, just like this that are filled with, and this is not embarrassing. It's a little anal. I'm just going to tell you that it's anal. [00:20:00] I have journal entry after journal entry. You can see here on my little screen, I create a daily agenda and then I track my reality in real time throughout the day.

To see if I'm owning up to what I thought my best day was. So it's me just executing at the highest level on my good days. But that awareness is how you get to the point of executing when you gotta know where your time is going. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:20:28] Absolutely. That's huge and insightful, and I'm sure that was a harsh reality to face.

And I'm sure that other people might be feeling like they need to do something similar to that, but are just nervous to start because it's going to be a harsh reality to face whether it's a personal or professional, concept. I, and that might be a barrier for people to even get started. Is. Yeah, shoot.

They're going to be hitting the brick wall fast kind of thing.

Justin: [00:20:58] and I do it from sunup [00:21:00] to sundown, so it's not just my work life. It's my whole life. Where's my time going. How much time do I spend surfing on the internet? How much time do I spend scrolling social media? How much time do I spend watching movies?

How much time do I spend doing other people's work? Like during the Workday. So many managers are saying they're overwhelmed and overloaded a lot of times if they actually track their time, it's because they're doing somebody else's job and they've been unwilling to hold them accountable. So part of executing is you got to first master yourself and your performance before you can really start needling in and helping other people own up to their responsibilities.

Keerstyn: [00:21:44] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's really a really important thing too, is you first have to grow personally and really niche that down before you can spread that to the rest of your organization, just like an EOS, you have to work on, the initial team [00:22:00] first and even yourself sometimes, and really say, is this actually in my capabilities before you can spread it to the other parts of the organization?

Justin: [00:22:09] I have a couple business owners and I'm working with their leadership teams and that the owner said, listen, Justin, this is going to be harder on me than probably anybody else. Cause I am, I know where I'm dysfunctional and that's why I need EOS to come in. And so that's me coaching them and, trying to help them navigate themselves.

And then helping implement with the team. There's so many book of the month fads, where a leader throws a book to their team, but the leader doesn't own the book. doesn't master the tools in the book themselves. They just want the team to do it. None of that stuff. It only goes a monkey. See monkey do.

And so those, that leadership team has to master those tools before they can really have transformative impact in the rest of the organization. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:22:57] that's really insightful too. I [00:23:00] agree with you. The book of the month thing is something that all organizations struggle with and everyone has done it at least once that's a thing.

it's not like only one person is doing it in the world. It's pretty much everyone does. And that's impacted.

Justin: [00:23:15] There's a difference though, between like events, challenge people. Process changes people. So you need to put new content in you. If you're going to break through the ceiling, personally, it's good to take in new content, but process is what changes people.

And so right now I'm on a personal journey where I'm going to learn social media and I'm going to. I'm going to get to a level of mastery because there's some vision, there's some dreams that I have. That's going to require me to build a larger platform, but I'm sorry, personally, going through that journey.

And I'm, learning some of those, but the process is what's going on. Change me. So right now I'm in information gathering mode and I'm about to go to another moment, which is [00:24:00] what are the processes I need to put into place that will change the trajectory of all the results that I want. And so you got to put yourself in front of new content, but execute the wind is really about building the processes that change the results.

Keerstyn: [00:24:16] Absolutely. Absolutely. And going back to that seventh, part of the seven steps for success is just owning it daily. I think that walks right into the information and the process of both sides of that. I think that, You do have to take that information initially, but then it's not just information seeking.

It's also, then let's execute this and be the best we can be through this learning. For sure.

Justin: [00:24:42] Yeah. And when you think about this emotional IQ side, there's so many businesses where it's numbers and they'll put numbers before people and I'm sitting here going no, man, if you really want to have legacy building success, you've got to put.

The [00:25:00] business strategy equal to the people's strategy. And I learned this from Bob Chapman and he said, Justin, he goes, Bob Chapman is the, probably I think ranked like the number three CEO in the world, but I brought Bob Chapman into my, I run this big leadership event called lead USA. And he wrote a book called everybody matters.

The extraordinary power of treating your people like family. And Bob said, Justin, he goes, we just have to care. And so when I talk about own it daily, what I mean is you have to own the numbers of your business daily. You have to own the leadership of your business daily. You have to own the culture of your business daily.

And for me it is, there's been a, I literally, I created water bottles. I created a tee shirt for myself.

I created a journal and it all says. Success loves discipline. Cause everybody has these one liners that remind you of who you want to [00:26:00] be. And so daily I have, this is a little embarrassing, but part of own it daily is you have to put truth in front of you daily. And so I have this tool called my war tracker.

It's my weekly action register and I track disciplines. Daily. And this is, this sounds a little anal, but because I'm a visionary idea guy and I'm highly relational, it's easy for me to say, I don't need to own this daily. I got energy and I've got great. I'm great with relationships, but I have to face my own reality.

So I have, these are personal, healthy disciplines for me to be a great leader. I've got to read my Bible 10 minutes a day, six days a week. I've got to have a daily agenda created. First thing in the morning, six days a week, I have exercise four days a week, sleep, seven hours a [00:27:00] day, six days a week.

All those disciplines Kiersten. If I'm off, then I can't bring my a game. So own it. Daily is about trying to what's the difference between a casual athlete and an Olympic athlete. It's their daily agenda. John Maxwell says the secret to your success is found in your daily agenda. And so the people that really want to win, they build a routine around their day.

That is like an Olympics. Kathleen and success loves discipline. I have fallen in love. With discipline. And I know the longterm end game is I'm going to have ridiculous success because I'm owning things daily. And when I don't own them daily, I know that I took a step back. Yeah. So that war tracker for me and my daily agenda, all of that stuff is what really helps me stay focused and execute.

And that's what I [00:28:00] love helping my teams do. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:28:02] So if someone is listening to you, sorry, now, and feels like they need to do this, or they need to just start, where should they start if they, if this feels very overwhelming. And initially a lot is overwhelming. even to start working out can be overwhelming, from a personal perspective or starting a new job or starting an EOS track, what would be the first.

Steph you would recommend them to take to, just start improving their life and, and start proving their personal and professional, growth.

Justin: [00:28:35] That's a really good question. And I'm going to give you a snowflake answer. So meaning, I don't know where your pain point is. So if you're listening to this and you're like, man, I got to take a step.

Number one, give yourself some grace, do not beat yourself up, but just decide where do you want to win most. Like, where are [00:29:00] you most frustrated with your own performance and you need to identify what's the gap. Like where are you today and where do you want to be? And what are you most hungry to achieve?

You've I don't want to just say, there's 29 areas that I suck at. And so let's work on all 29. I'm going to say I could care less. I suck at golf, Kiersten. I suck at gas and I never am going to get good at golf. Cause I don't care about that. So you gotta pick your battles. So I picked procrastination back, 10 years ago, because that was my greatest pain point.

That was what was limiting. So to answer your question, whoever's this thing. If you want to take a step, where do you most want to win? Where are you most freaking tired about your own performance or your team's performance and laser focus on a few, one or two things. And what do you need to do to improve that area?

For me, it was a daily agenda. [00:30:00] If I could master my daily agenda and get up every morning and write that baby, my odds of success, I probably, I miss you. I'm probably 30 to 40% more productive every day that I have a daily agenda still to this day for 10 years, we've got to figure out where do you want to win?

And then you start determining what's right. What's the habit that I need to embed. What's the learning that I need to have. Where do I want to grow?

Keerstyn: [00:30:28] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that you're testimony of the, you just have to continue doing it too. I think some people are looking for that one stop shop where everything gets fixed and it doesn't exist.

Hate to you. It's somewhat you want to be healthy and there's quite a few steps that you need to take, but then you have to be consistent with it, whether it's exercising or eating healthy or getting your vegetables in or taking your vitamin, Problems. Can't just be fixed by an aspirin. It needs to actually have some significant, growth and impact and work into [00:31:00] it.

Absolutely.

Justin: [00:31:00] Yeah. I have discipline for two days and expect to lose all the weight you want to lose. You've got to be, you've got to own your crap daily. You've got to own it. So what are the disciplines you need every day? To longterm sustain the kind of results that you're gonna look back and have no regrets.

How do you eliminate habitual mediocrity? So you, I look back and you're like, Oh my gosh, what a freaking awesome life my team is rocking it because we owned it daily.

Keerstyn: [00:31:31] Yeah, absolutely. What would you say to the people who are the managers that are, starting this up and then also want to spread it to their team, but their team is struggling to really grab a hold of what they should be doing or how they should be doing this or are totally sold on it.

what are your thoughts about that?

Justin: [00:31:50] I would say become obsessed with your personal. Disciplines your personal performance, let your actions speak [00:32:00] louder than your words. Like you need to become a ferocious beast of a performer. and if you're leading that team, once you've really dialed yourself in, then you need to learn how to build systems, to help your team win and get really comfortable.

Just like I told you, I had to face my in reality, I'm looking at my truth. if you're a leader, you've got to help. If your team look at their reality, you've got to put, you've got to, you got to help them celebrate and evaluate their performance. You're going to have difficult conversations, but do it in a simple, direct, respectful way.

But you gotta make every, make sure everybody knows here's the bar. And this is where our performance is. And we guys, we got to figure out a way, so you've got to build some systems. Obviously EOS is a great tool, but there's thousands. There's [00:33:00] probably hundreds of thousands of systems. If you're a manager, you've got to find a system because you need personal systems, but your team to really sustain success.

They need some systems. They need some, some route disciplines and they need to see reality. And I'm going to say on a weekly basis, you should be meeting to show reality to solve issues and to own some of those disciplines. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:33:27] but I think that's important too, that you're actually meeting with them rather than just saying that you're going to do these things and I'm not really having that follow through.

You can't do it without having those hard conversations about where they're at, what they're struggling with and how they can go forward. Absolutely. Absolutely. yeah. So Justin, if anyone wants to have a deeper conversation with you about how they can, Start getting on this road to, not only growing professionally, but personally, where can you be

Justin: [00:33:56] reached so you can, email [00:34:00] me justin@justinmoss.com.

You can friend request me on LinkedIn. and my cell phone number is what most people use is (574) 596-6957. Let me know if I can

Keerstyn: [00:34:15] help. Awesome. Cool. do you have any last words before we, leave this space

Justin: [00:34:21] today? Yeah. Whatever you tolerate, you endorse just literally freaking look at your life.

Look at your team. Look at your company. What are you tolerating that you no longer want to tolerate? I just, if I could say anything is if you really want to win, you've got to face reality. I think John Maxwell is the one that taught me. He said, Justin, everything great is uphill. Everything great is uphill.

And so there's no easy road. There's no quick fixes. You're just gonna have, you have to own [00:35:00] it and fall in love with it discipline, but you got to first get to the point of I'm tired of tolerating, this level of performance in my life or in my team's life. You just got to get to a point where you want to break through the ceiling.

Keerstyn: [00:35:15] Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. thank you so much, Justin, for, being a part of this today. I sure learned a lot and I know our listeners will too

Justin: [00:35:23] Kiersten. You're awesome. Congratulations on doing this thing. I loved your questions. It was fun. Doing life with you for about a 45 minutes.

Keerstyn: [00:35:31] Thank you. Awesome.

View Details

Sherry and Marcia join me on the podcast to chat about the 4 concepts that have helped them get where they are today. Lead to Inspire is now 4 years old and thriving . They chat about their organization, how they help their clients, and what has made their lives better because of their choices as leaders.

Find Sherry and Marcia on:
LinkedIn; Sherry and Marcia
Their Website

Transcription below (May contain typo's....):
Marcia: [00:00:00] I was just thinking about like the one on one coaching.

We do. We often hear that, one of the things that we do on those calls is we challenge their thinking. I think they appreciate getting a different perspective. Sometimes it's nice to have a perspective of somebody that's not involved in the necessary the day to day you're on the team.

But for a leader to be able to say, here's, what's going on and I don't know what I'm missing, help me understand what the other person may be thinking or why they would have done that. And, so Sherry and I like to just challenge their challenge or their thinking as we go.

And, They usually, solve their own problems at that point.

Keerstyn: [00:00:36] welcome to the podcast, Sherry and Marcia. I am really excited to have you both here today to talk a little bit more about what you do, how you help your clients and how you continue to change the workforce.

Sherry: [00:00:46] Absolutely. thanks for having us first off.

Keerstyn: [00:00:48] Yeah, for sure.

Sherry: [00:00:51] So a little background on us, Marsha and I, met in 2001, we were both coming from different organizations and landed on the same sales team.

[00:01:00] We became fast friends and, Truly we're dubbed this dynamic duo, which we didn't really understand at the time we thought it was because we get results and, we move forward and do things well, within our territories. But what we found later in life is really, we have a lot of the same.

Strengths, but we certainly have some gaps. So my opportunities or areas that I need to improve on, Marsha's very strong in. So we just work well together because of that. and it's great to have that, the person next to you, then fast forward we worked at. Sales for 10 years together. And then I worked in business development in a different organizations and, then came back to work together in a startup company, honey, that truly helped us launch our own business lead to inspire, because we're able to sit down across the table and build out training for.

Individuals young leaders were coming to us asking questions. and I think we both vividly remember sitting in a conference [00:02:00] room one day and the light bulb went off for us. It was a successful training on how to have difficult conversations with a lot of young leaders and the room was packed and there was great conversation.

And when they all left the room Marsh and I looked at each other and we went, this was amazing. What if we did this every day? and so that was really the launch to lead to inspire four years ago.

Keerstyn: [00:02:22] Awesome. That's sweet. I love how you guys do been in each other's lives for 10 years. You just connected off and on until this all happened and congrats on your four years too.

That's very exciting. Yeah, absolutely. So we actually have set up a four part podcast because we're celebrating you guys as four years of being in business. So the first thing that we're going to talk about is being intentional and being present. Do you want to just dive into that and, I guess give us the big picture and then we can dive in a little deeper.

Marcia: [00:02:56] Yeah. So I would say Sherry and I always have believed [00:03:00] that, we, and we've said this to each other, like work smarter, not harder, and really believe that we were pretty intentional with the way that we worked and. I think we really have found it when you start a business and there's two of you and you're responsible for all of it, although you're not great at all of it.

You've really got to get intentional about how you spend your time, the projects that you work on. the be present part for us was really important too, because, prior to starting our own business, we were, had always worked in the corporate world and. other people really drove our projects are, the things that we were working on.

And, you get to a point sometimes where you're like, I don't know if that's exactly how I want to spend every day and am I making the impact in the world that I want to? And so this be intentional, be present has been a mantra for us. it goes way beyond just, working smarter, not harder, but it's, really being intentional in all that we

Keerstyn: [00:03:56] do.

Yeah,

Sherry: [00:03:58] absolutely. That it's okay to say [00:04:00] no. I think that was a big issue for me, because we all want to be all things to all people. And so I'll just say yes to everything. And then at the end of the day, you dread having to go to that committee meeting or whatever it is. And I think when we gave ourselves the opportunity to say no to the things that we aren't passionate about, because there are 10 other people go out there who would probably love to be on that committee who really have a passion for it, let them serve their passion and focus it.

it's hard to say no the first time, but then when you realize how freeing it is, and that works in leadership every day, there's some things you can't say no to, but there are other things that truly you can, and it makes a big

Keerstyn: [00:04:38] difference. Yeah. What are the biggest hurdles for your clients when they start.

Saying no, essentially. And being intentional about what their projects are, their passions are. what is the hardest hurdle that they get over? And then what are some of the outcomes that really, are positives after the fact, once they learn how to do it,

Marcia: [00:04:58] I'd say it's a big [00:05:00] mindset shift to, to like Sherry said, give yourself permission to say no, and to really step back and evaluate.

the things that are, yeah, I know are being asked to be with it is to sit on a board or a committee or to take on a project if it's, it doesn't really align with who you are, your goals, your focus, then it is okay to say no, but I think to Sherry's point it. Until you give yourself that permission and until you really start to exercise at it, it's a mindset shift to believe that it's okay to say no.

And to really be intentional about the things that you're saying yes to. And, when you do that, you, everything that you're saying yes to has a lot more, you just get so much more out of it.

Keerstyn: [00:05:43] Yeah. Absolutely. That's really important in my opinion. And it's hard to say no initially, and I've even found that, but, it's also really rewarding in the end and a positive transition for sure.

I'm personally,

Marcia: [00:05:59] it's a [00:06:00] behavioral shift, right in anytime that we're trying to create a new habit or, change a behavior. There's work involved with it. So I think it is that, shifting of mindset and really practicing some of the, ways to be able to say no effectively.

Keerstyn: [00:06:15] Yeah, absolutely.

And I, the thing that I think about too is it's figuring out what you're intentional about as well. So you can have 1,001 things that you believe are part of your, your story or your goals, or. Whatever, but oftentimes that can be overwhelming, especially when you have 1,001 things that you feel is important.

and narrowing that down to a niche is very valuable. Yeah.

Sherry: [00:06:41] think about that. Think about your, to do list. I think that's something we always challenge people with because everybody always says I want better time management. oftentimes it comes down to what. You need to do, and it's being intentional about how impactful you can be in a day.

So if you look at your, to do list, how many things are on there? some people will say, Oh, there's at least [00:07:00] 150 things. we set ourselves up for failure because we try to accomplish that every single day, which we can't do. And we get to the end of the day and we haven't accomplished 150 things.

Then we feel like a failure. And that's unfortunate. So when you can actually be more intentional and prioritize and, figure out those three or four things that you have totally need to get done today, and then you have your other things you can do, if you have time, but then you can feel it successful at the end of the day.

And it just helps drive you into the next day and you become more productive. And I think something, we always challenge our clients with his pick the thing on that priority list that you want to do. You just don't want to do, we all have those things that we like to, push off until last we'll do that first.

you can be a great procrastinator when you don't want to get something when you just don't want to do it. do that first, then you don't have that hanging over your head. It's just, those are ways to work smarter and to accomplish more and to feel better at the end of the day.

Keerstyn: [00:07:58] Yeah,

Marcia: [00:07:58] you really waste a lot of [00:08:00] energy.

worrying about thinking about that thing that you don't want to do, or you're not quite sure how to start and if you would just dive right in, you get on to the next thing and you're not wasting so much time or energy on

Sherry: [00:08:11] it. Yeah. I had one gentleman who said he was a true procrastinator and he ended up removing all of the apps from his phone, like the Facebook or the social media as he removed the games, everything, because he found himself going to those when he didn't want to do the report he had to do or whatever it was.

And that was successful for him. Not everybody can do that or wants to, but that worked for him. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:08:35] That's a good example of how we can get rid of those distractions to make sure that we're. On the right page. The other thing I think about too, is being able to empower your team, especially if you're a manager or a leader to do those other 99 things that you have on your plate, but don't necessarily need to do, you can pass that down.

And I think that goes really well with the second point that you guys have given me is focusing [00:09:00] on solving specific problems for specific people. obviously. it changes day by day and who you're talking to and what specific people you're working with and working for. but I think that's a really important thing.

Do you guys want to go into a little bit more adaptive? What your thoughts around, solving problems for specific people?

Sherry: [00:09:19] We have constantly tried to fine tune what we bring to our clients and who we are as leaders to inspire. overall. And the bottom line for us is we want to invest in people and we love seeing that light bulb moment when we work with people and can help them with something. but I think when you align yourself with the right partner, or the right client and the big piece for us was we could say no to a client if we wanted to, if those values didn't align.

if we go back to our biggest partner, Right now our biggest client, and we've been working together for three years and we do a leadership Academy with them that has continually evolved each of the three years. And obviously this company has grown each of these three years as [00:10:00] well. but Marsha and I could easily lay out.

Here's the 12 month plan. This is everything we're going to do each month. And we certainly know what we're going to do each month, but the topics change. And I think we've gotten so much better at. Listening in our one-on-ones or group calls and really hearing what the leaders are saying is their need at that moment.

And that's what we use then to catapult us into the next webinar. We're going to do what skill they need to work on, what area they need to work on. And that truly is helping us solve problems for them to help them keep at the top of their game and to help them continue

Keerstyn: [00:10:34] to grow. Yeah, absolutely. It's customized solutions for different teams.

Yeah. And that's really important, especially like with the different teams, but then also your own team that you, I think about the different people that are a part of teams and how maybe one is a high D on the disc score, but then the other one is a high ass on the disc score and how drastically different their personalities maybe, and being able to [00:11:00] serve them with the right intentions and the right, Even approach to talking with them.

That's so important. And I'm sure that you guys have plenty of stories about how you have shifted your, your business to make sure to, Serve your clients. in terms of shifting for their exact needs, do you want to share one?

Marcia: [00:11:20] as you were talking, I was just thinking about like the one on one coaching.

We do. We often hear that, one of the things that we do on those calls is we challenge their thinking. I think they appreciate getting a different perspective. Sometimes it's nice to have a perspective of somebody that's not involved in the necessary the day to day you're on the team.

But for a leader to be able to say, here's, what's going on and I don't know what I'm missing, help me understand what the other person may be thinking or why they would have done that. And, so Sherry and I like to just challenge their challenge or their thinking as we go.

And, They usually, solve their own problems at that point. But, it's just nice to be able to talk it

Sherry: [00:11:58] through. [00:12:00] Yeah. I think going back to the disc profile, I think so often we're in those one-on-one or even the group calls, but it usually happens in the one on ones where there's someone maybe they're butting heads with, or, a team member.

they just don't listen to them or they don't in their mind. They don't listen to them and it's really taking it back and. And helping remind them, okay, are approaching them how you want to communicate? Are you really adhering to it? What they need to hear and what they, Are you listening to what they need?

Are you listening to what their needs are so that you can really help them? too often, we look at our communication all from our own perspective and we forget that teammate or that employee, that team member may need to hear something different if we're repeating ourselves constantly. And I think that's something we hear a lot from leaders as well.

I told them four times and I'm done with it. They just don't, and maybe they're putting them on a plan and it's wait a minute, have you looked in the mirror? Is it something that, maybe starts with you, do you need to communicate to them differently? Do [00:13:00] you need to, maybe give them some more hands on training?

Do they really understand why they're doing what they're doing? So it's helping them take, we hear that a lot and it's. that light bulb moment for them because all of a sudden they're realizing, Oh, maybe somebody else isn't hearing what I'm saying. Maybe I need to work on my approach.

So we're all constantly learning and Marsha. And I always say we learned just as much in our coaching calls and in our group sessions is hopefully what the people we're teaching do. and that's what we have to do. Keep growing personally and professionally for sure.

Keerstyn: [00:13:30] Yeah. And the other thing I think about with that is what you're actually asking to.

it's not telling, it's asking questions and actually letting, the person that you're speaking to come up with a solution themselves. I think that's so empowering and so needed in the workplace today. the, for example, if I were to go be told that I need to do X, Y, and Z, I would be, Really?

No, I don't see that on my plate versus if you actually decide that's something you want to do, that's so much more valuable and empowering, [00:14:00] and people actually feel motivated to go do that. Then if it's their idea versus being told, and I think that's something that we all need to think about, and we're all guilty of saying, Hey, don't do this.

But when we empower people to actually create their own decisions and I figure themselves out that's so valuable.

Marcia: [00:14:19] Yeah, we talk a lot about just the value of an engaged team versus an unengaged team. And, engaged people are the ones who are showing up there. there it's often because they're being asked their opinions and their thoughts and how can we approach this differently or that differently.

And they get up wanting to help solve those problems versus just punching the clock and doing their time, which to Sherry. And I seems. Dreadful, We spend too much time at work to not really enjoy what we do. And so to feel like you have a voice, your opinion matters, those things, all help to create a team that's engaged and, enjoy coming to work every day and helping to solve [00:15:00] those problems.

Sherry: [00:15:01] Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:15:01] absolutely. And I think that rolls really well into the third point that you guys have is that mindset is everything. and do you guys want to touch on that a bit more and then we can dive in deeper.

Marcia: [00:15:12] Yeah. So we do feel like mindset is where we sit, start with a lot of the coaching that we do.

mindset really is everything. There's a, every board vote that says where they, you think you will, or you think you won't you'll you're right. I actually use it with my kids a lot as well, but. if you go in or you approach something, anything it's not going to work, it's the impossible, odds are, you're not going to work, whether, but if you approach it with the mindset of, I, I believe we can make this happened.

My, you've got a positive attitude. it's everything. And sometimes with our coaching, it is just challenging somebody on their mindset and being able to see it through a different set eyes and, And helping them show up the next day with a different mindset.

Keerstyn: [00:15:57] Yeah, absolutely. That's so valuable. [00:16:00]

it was just like, it's miserable if you don't think you can do it. I think that's an obvious thing, but it's definitely not. And people struggle with that and, yeah, I totally agree with that. Do you have anything to add Sherry?

Sherry: [00:16:13] I think we go back to the saying a lot. What would you do if you knew you could not fail?

And I think to what Marcia said, it's we so often are the biggest obstacle in our own success because we're afraid to try. And, we'll be the first to admit we learned. And I think a lot of people are, we've learned so much more from our failures than we do our successes, because think about it. If you fail at something, you've taken the chance.

So you've grown personally already. but if you fail at it, you're going to. We do anyway, we, dive into that and figure out exactly what went Ron, how we could do it better. What w what else do we need? and it just helps us learn even more and grow, and it makes whatever project we were working on, even better.

Marsha and I. When we were still in the corporate world, we're tasked with, of aligning the [00:17:00] sand initiative and Marsha really tells the story better than I do, it had failed five times before we got it. So we felt geez, we got the lucky straw and we're never wants to back down from a challenge, but.

In essence, we really dug into it to figure out why did it fail in the past? Because everybody was happy to tell us that. but really then as we approached the training for it, as much, how we approach training today is what's going to be the most beneficial for that team. They need to understand the overall big picture, but they truly need to understand why it's important to them so that they could change their mindset or shift that mindset to know.

Okay. This is a good thing for the company, but it's also going to help me because it was going to save them time. It was going to save the company money. It was going to be better for the client in the long run. and then we trained them. The training was a missing component those other times, and being able to train them, on exactly some role play.

So here are the things that the client's going to say. Here's how you can come back and, react and respond to those, those,

[00:18:00] Marcia: [00:17:59] Objectives,

Sherry: [00:18:01] thank you to those objections. and it, they really didn't skip a beat once they launched it. I think they had a few nerves, but as far as we're aware of that initiative is still continuing and it's still working well.

if you're not willing to do the work and to look at it and say, okay, it's failed five times. It could be a six, but we're not going to let it. You have to do that. That's just how we all grow.

Keerstyn: [00:18:22] Yeah, absolutely. And making sure that your team or your clients feel like it's okay to fail too, and they're not going to be punished.

That is so important. And I can not stress that enough. it, it creates a whole new atmosphere for, or your team or your clients or whoever you're working with to be able to feel okay about taking risk and, actually rewarding from the risk and the end for sure.

Marcia: [00:18:47] Yeah. Yeah. We talk a lot about the magic happens outside of your comfort zone and you just really don't know what you're capable of, unless you push yourself to that limit and beyond.

Keerstyn: [00:18:58] Yeah. I [00:19:00] completely heard that's so valuable. I think that people underestimate that, those concepts alone and, it's so necessary though, especially to be creative and stand out in the workplace and make sure that your team's actually engaged and excited and working towards a goal that's bigger than themselves.

For sure. And I think that really goes into the next point of dream, big work, hard, stay focused and surround yourself with good people think dream big. Obviously we just touched on that a little bit, but do you guys want to hop right into that and give you a rundown of what that means to you guys?

Marcia: [00:19:37] Sure.

Yeah. I think dream big for us, like lead to inspire would have never come to fruition if we just didn't believe in those dreams and. We often joke. We had to convince our husbands to, be on board with us leaving the corporate world and the corporate salaries. But. again, getting out of your comfort zone, dreaming, big, working hard, and obviously there's a lot of hard work that goes into it.

He needs successful business. [00:20:00] staying focused for us. That was one of those things early on that we probably weren't as good at as we have become over the years. We've gotten. probably a lot more focused and that maybe comes back to our initial, let's really be intentional about the projects we take on the customers, clients that we work with and make sure that they align with our strengths and what we can bring to the table for the customer.

and then I think finally the surround yourself with good people. that one is so important. I think oftentimes undervalued. But when you, can show up every day and work with people that you respect that have the same, ethics values, they're wanting the same things, out of life and work that you do, just the alignment happens.

The partnership happens. We, we really believe that when we had worked with, whether it's one on one with the client, a coaching client, or if it's working with an organization to help build their. Leadership team or to help them develop a client experience it's planned to really serve their customers and their clients.

It really comes down to partnerships. We want to make sure that we're partnering [00:21:00] with every person that we work with. It's not just a customer or client, but it's really a true partner.

Keerstyn: [00:21:05] Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really cool that you guys are very intentional about who you are working with and, making sure that they feel valued in the partnership as well.

And, that their ethics are the same. I think that's really important, especially with the whole concept of core values and, Making sure that people are aligned and working towards the same goals. It's really difficult to work towards the same goals when you don't have core values that lineup or that, the ethics that aren't totally a hundred percent the same.

yeah, that's, I love that. That's I love your intention behind, lifted, lead, and, all that. That's sweet.

Sherry: [00:21:48] Or work wherever you're at. and you have to be surrounded by people that, and trust, you don't have to be best friends with everybody, but, and, whoever said, and it's been around for a long time. [00:22:00] hire people smarter than you, have people that, as I said earlier with Marcia and I, people who maybe have different strengths than you don't want little robots of yourself all around the building when you have people that truly, Can add and give to your strengths and you just, that's why Marsha and I worked together well as a team because we can feed off of each other.

We get a project, we just know, we don't have to say, okay, Marsha, you do this and I'll do this. We just know who's going to do what, because that's where our wheelhouse is. and that just makes all the difference in the world when you can find that.

Keerstyn: [00:22:30] Yes, absolutely. You

Marcia: [00:22:33] had talked about disc profiles in that earlier.

And when you think about a team and all the different people that make up a team, one of the things we share a lot is to celebrate the differences because that's what really makes your team stronger. And so often you'll see, UN we think, being competitive isn't necessarily a bad thing, right?

That can be a really positive thing. But if people, really don't celebrate the differences, if it's, if they see that as competition in a bad way or that it [00:23:00] can, really be detrimental to a team and their success. If you really celebrate the, the differences and the different things that people bring to the table and truly try to understand the other person teams work so much better together and get so much more done.

Keerstyn: [00:23:15] Absolutely. Do you have any advice for people who are looking for different team members and they're a little bit like, what do I look for? Do I look for someone who's totally different than me? Or do I look for someone who's very similar? What would be some advice that you would give those people?

Sherry: [00:23:31] When Marsha and I used to do interviews together, I think you bring to the people that maybe are qualified on paper.

Cause that's how we see initially and there's different screening processes, you start with the people who on paper will match what you need. but it's really that interaction you have with. With them at the table. And I think, instantly when we found great teammates, we knew within the first minute of that conversation, that they either would make great teammates or for sure we're gonna, we just liked them.

I think for me another [00:24:00] step in that is to make sure, because this happened to us. We had someone that we actually liked that we were interviewing. And then we had our team do the second round of interviews and they came back and they're like, no, Sometimes people interact differently with the leaders of the team versus their peers.

And, it's, it does two things by having that team interview as well. It helps them to start to build a relationship with that person. So then when they start on the first day, if they are hired, it's not like starting your first day, you've already met your peers. but it's also so giving that team some skin in the game, able to share their voice that goes back to.

To allowing them to have some summit, some input into what goes on day to day and they're the ones working with them. So that truly, I think for me, when I. It's number one, getting that feeling that, yes, this is the right person, but then also having that validation when the team can and move forward and say, yup, this is somebody we want to work

Keerstyn: [00:24:58] with.

Yeah. And I [00:25:00] think

Marcia: [00:25:00] just to add to that a little bit, Sherry is, as an organization, trying to find people that fit your culture, or it could be your team culture. And that's what Sherry was talking about with having the team get involved with those interviews. But, if you're an organization who is looking for other likeminded, good people that align with your values and that there's a lot of things that you can teach somebody, We can teach skills and different things like that. But, if they have to bring that, underlying kind of fit, to the team.

Keerstyn: [00:25:29] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I think that's so important. I think we undervalue that a lot. going back to those core values, but then also I love how Sherry, you said making sure your team is a part of the higher or the, the client onboarding to make sure that they're, They're definitely a fit.

And also there are people that you do want to surround yourself with. That's so valuable. Absolutely. do you guys have anything else to add about today? We went through the four points, but [00:26:00] obviously I would be happy to talk about anything else.

We'll say

Marcia: [00:26:03] you had talked about onboarding, which is something else that we, we really believe in and we talk a lot about the employee experience. so we've been in sales for, the majority of our careers and, really believed that in order to be able to provide a great customer experience, you've got to have team members who've come into your organization and.

And, are proud of where they work. They really enjoy what they do and where they work everyday. yes, we help organizations to build client experience plans, but it really starts with the team and the people first. And, that means having an employee experience, that is top notch. So we do a lot with onboarding.

You'd mentioned that earlier, we do a lot with helping organizations evaluate their onboarding process and. How do we, mentor those new employees and give them a good, idea of what the organization is all about and who they are and that history and the future of where they're going. but then also, the team members who've been around for a number of years, I'm circling [00:27:00] back with them and finding out why did they stay?

there's some stay interviews as a term where you can. Instead of just doing the exit interviews and finding out why your team members are leaving, what keeps them there and making sure that those are things that you continue to build. And, it, again, it comes out it's back to just making sure that team member feels valued and appreciated, and that you're trying to provide a great experience for them when they come into work every day and help build your

Keerstyn: [00:27:24] business.

Yeah, I like the concept of this. They interviews often you hear about the exit interviews and, you want to make sure you're doing those two, but the stay interview is a really interesting concept that I don't think a lot of companies, leverage, especially, when they, their retention is a little bit lower, they or their retention is higher.

And how are your employees being supported for sure. I think one thing that you have to think about is employees, bring in your. clients, their customer is then, with no, no, morale. It's hard to bring in the customers or the clients that you're trying to grab a hold of. So [00:28:00] I totally get there.

Absolutely.

Sherry: [00:28:03] I would piggyback off the client experience or the employee experience. and the fact that feedback is something we hear a lot in our one-on-ones, and. To have a great employee experience. People need to know how they're doing and that they're doing a good job. And sometimes people say, that's what they're paid for.

That's what they need to do. But so often I think there's a lot of insecurity in the workplace because employees just, aren't sure leaders, aren't sure if they're doing a good job or because no one ever gives them that feedback. And that is so important. Just to take that time at all levels of leadership, to be able to give that input, because gosh, when you're, when your employees are excited, they're going to pass that to Marsha's point.

They're going to pass that on to their clients. And if you don't have that positive culture, It's tough and people, there's a lot of job opportunities out there. And if you have good employees, you want them to [00:29:00] stay. And, it just makes a big difference. If you just take a few minutes, even we say, thank you.

it takes two minutes to say things Q or to leave a thank you note. we're big into handwritten. Thank you. Notes, Marsha. I'll be honest. The transparent Marcia's better at it than I am to leave. Thank you notes. okay. But when you do it's amazing. The difference that people feel, Hey, you stayed late.

The other night, I saw that. I took note, here's a $5 Starbucks gift card. it doesn't take a lot to make employees feel valued and that's truly what everybody wants. You want to love what you do. You want to feel valued and like the people you work with. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:29:36] I think

Marcia: [00:29:37] people underestimate that.

there is a huge need for each one of us to feel valued and appreciated whether that's in the workforce at home with our friends, wherever that is in any relationship, it's a human need to feel valued and appreciated. And if leaders remembered that, their teams would be that much stronger because, their team member, their teammates or team members would come in and work that much harder [00:30:00] for them.

And to help them. yeah. when a team member feels valued and appreciated, when they feel like they're on a winning team, when they feel like they're making a difference, they are more engaged and, really they're the ones that help you to, accomplish your goals

Sherry: [00:30:15] and your objectives. And for those who have a hard time with a difficult conversation, because they have to have maybe a conversation about something that's not working, it's much easier when that employee has already had the positive feedback, knowing that they do a good job.

It's a lot easier to hear, Hey, you're doing a great job, but we need to tweak this or we need to do this. it makes a big difference and it makes those conversations easier to have to, because there's a lot of people who won't talk about the elephant in the room because they're. They're uncertain how to do it.

They don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. They just really don't know how to proceed with it. So the, just letting everybody know where they stand in, if they're doing a good job, makes a big difference.

Keerstyn: [00:30:55] Yeah, absolutely. And it helps them know where they stand all the time too. And that's very important.

[00:31:00] Absolutely. Awesome. thank you ladies so much for joining me on the podcast today. If people want to reach out to you or learn more about you, what are some good ways to get in touch or to find out where you guys are?

Marcia: [00:31:16] So we're on social media. We're on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. We have a website which is lead to inspire that net.

And you can leave us a note there you can email us directly at hello at lead to inspire and, dot net. Yep.

Keerstyn: [00:31:34] Yeah, cool. We'll put those in the show notes to make sure that people can access those easily. but thank you so much, ladies. I have loved learning about lead to inspire and, congratulations on the four years coming up.

That's very exciting. And I'm sure that you guys are stoked about that. and, looking forward to continue to serving

Marcia: [00:31:53] people. Yeah. Thanks for having

Keerstyn: [00:31:56] us. Yeah, absolutely.

View Details

Robin Shear joins us on the podcast to talk all about joy. She is a joy coach that focuses on helping people find their passion and happiness in the work place. From figuring out what your passions are too having refreshing moments during the day, it is so important to find what makes you happy and driven in your every day life.

Find Robin on:
Linkedin
Her website

Full transcription below:

[00:00:00] Robin: [00:00:00] But if I'm not feeling like myself, I'm just not really on my game and feeling like my whole normal stuff. I'll take a look at my list of joys. And I'll see, gosh, I haven't moved in a week. I'm sitting at my desk eight hours a day, 12 hours a day and not doing anything. Of course, this is why I feel like this.

Keerstyn: [00:00:36] welcome to the podcast, Robin. I really excited that you're here today to talk a little bit more about what you do. Can you just give us a brief intro of how you got involved in your work and what you do now for your clients?

Robin: [00:00:49] Hi Kiersten. It's so much fun to be here. brief intro basically

Keerstyn: [00:00:53] goes like

Robin: [00:00:53] this. I'm one of those people who would just can't quite fit you're out what I want to be when I grow up. And no, I have changed [00:01:00] careers many times and totally loved each of my callings. And. I got to a point where I realized I've been coaching all along unofficially and several people pointed that out and said, you really ought to check this out.

And finally, the time came when I thought, okay, maybe I should listen to these folks. And I'm so glad that I did, because it really was, allows me to just do what was natural, but in a more constructive way, and just really reach people wherever they are and help them, figure out. What do they want?

let's just slow down a little bit and dream and let's throw some fun into the mix. I feel know the world is just a really demanding, really difficult place and we don't slow down often enough just to dream and have fun and play. So my focus is really joy and helping people live more joyfully while they're doing all this great stuff that they want to do.

Keerstyn: [00:01:55] Yeah, absolutely. What are some of those. Problems that your [00:02:00] clients come to you with that they, obviously they might be overworked or they might not be enjoying their career anymore, but what are some of those bigger issues they, end up having that you help them

Robin: [00:02:11] navigate through? Yeah. you definitely named some big ones.

I work with a lot of people who are very driven. these are people who are all about accomplishing things and doing wonderful things that contribute to the wellbeing of so many others. But what is the common denominator with my clients as they pour into everyone else and do it.

Gladly, willingly, but they don't pour into themselves. they just really, they have a very active to do list and they are never on it, or if they are on their own to do list or at the very bottom. And so often they're, they're ignoring the fact that they have needs too. And that it's, it's their responsibility to meet their needs.

Also just feels good to meet their needs there. So about everybody else. [00:03:00] So a lot of people are burned out. a lot of people really are disconnected with the people that matter the most to them because they are so driven. I have a lot of parents in my network who are very involved in their kids' lives.

they're committed to doing all these things for their kids, but they don't even know them. Because they're so busy serving them. They don't slow down to connect with them. So that's a really common denominator. Yeah. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:03:27] It sounds a lot like even a manager to employee relationship in terms

Robin: [00:03:31] of

Keerstyn: [00:03:32] you, you're serving them and you're helping them grow, but then the relationship aspect is just missing.

So that. that often makes so many issues down the road and, bigger problems than what we have believed for sure.

Robin: [00:03:47] You're still like Kiersten. And think, employers, they do the best that they can, they go to school and they, they implement all these fantastic strategies and those are all well and good.

But what you said, I think really hits the nail on the head. [00:04:00] We want to be known. We want to be in relationship and, we want to feel like our contributions matter and that people get who we are and. I don't think that a lot of managers really appreciate the beauty and just knowing the people on their team on a personal level.

you don't have to hang out with them and yeah. Do life every day after work, but just to know what matters. So the people on your team and who are they as individuals outside of what they're contributing to your organization, those folks who feel known and who feel valued and who feel a sense of joy and happiness at work.

Those are the people who are going to stick with you for the long run. Those are the people who are not going to turn over or call in sick. Those are the people who are going to be productive and really excited to contribute. There's a lot of good. And knowing your team. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:04:52] absolutely. What are some of those, Things that you help people get through.

So obviously they come to you with they're burnt out. They're [00:05:00] not investing in themselves. They're not building relationships with their people. What are some of the strategies that you walk them through in terms of getting back to those relationships and investing in yourself and having emotions are, deeper within

Robin: [00:05:18] kind of thing.

it's such a good question. I think it really has to start with, does this person even understand what joy is? are we confusing, happiness and joy? Which so often is the case. they both make us feel so great. But happiness tends to be very short term and it goes away when the circumstances change.

And what I want to do is cultivate a sense of joy that is lasting, that can withstand whatever garbage life is going to bring, because it's going to happen, right? If you want perfection, you're going to have to wait until later we, this is a broken world and we need to know how to be resilient within this world that we live in.

And I really want my clients from the very beginning to know. What [00:06:00] joy is. And then what brings them joy on a personal level. Cool. And then this is so fascinating because everyone I talked to has such a different list, such a different bunch of answers, and I love the mystery of it. And.

Sometimes, my clients have no idea. They come to me, they are so committed to everybody else. And if I ask them what brings you joy, they cannot answer the question. And so that's what I'm there for, to really help coach them into a place of it's okay. To dream a little. and it's okay to think about yourself sometimes for the very first time, they tend to show up with guilt and it's so interesting because.

No guilt is the emotion that goes hand and hand with wrong. Doing. And there is nothing wrong with slowing things down and meeting your needs. There's nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to feel guilty about. So we do a lot of work around that, and then we really take a look at the different areas of a [00:07:00] person's life, on a scale of one to 10, how would you rate the joy level of your career?

Say, do you jump out of bed just so happy that you get to do what you do. Would you do it for free because you love it so much? Or what about the joy level of your growth and learning? so many of us, when we're in school, we're all about learning. And then when we get into our jobs, we forget.

Yeah, how great it feels to learn just for the fun of it. Things that actually, we want learn, right? Not the stuff at school makes you learn, like what are you learning about? How was that making you the best version of yourself? What number would you say? you would give for that.

And if I asked you that question, what would you say Kiersten?

Keerstyn: [00:07:40] Yeah, that's a hard one. I would probably be at an eight or nine right now, but obviously it's a seven or a five because, things are thrown at, employees and managers and leaders. And that's the hard part of, and like you said, it's happiness versus joy.

I was going to ask you what your definition of joy [00:08:00] is. Specifically.

Robin: [00:08:02] Yeah, that's a great question. And everyone has a different definition and I'll have to tell you, I do not agree with Webster's definition and that's okay. they may be right. And I could be aware of Facebook. What I have found is that joy to me is this inner effervescence for life.

it is a, it's a state of being, it's not a reaction to. What comes at us in life. It's not circumstantial. It's just how we do life. It's how we see things. And joy is lasting and it's a rich, beautiful part of how to do life. I know that I went all over the place with that definition.

How would you define joy? Have you ever thought about it? Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:08:50] that's a hard one. I would agree with you in some of those ways. I think that it's a bigger happiness obviously is short term and [00:09:00] it can also be longterm though. And I think that is exactly what joy is in terms

Robin: [00:09:03] of

Keerstyn: [00:09:04] consistently being excited and motivated and finding happiness and pretty much everything that you do.

for sure. that's a very interesting definition that I'm glad that you said that.

Robin: [00:09:18] because I do,

Keerstyn: [00:09:19] I think that people really struggle with knowing exactly what that actually means. yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So if someone were to come to you just like struggling to find happiness and what they do,

Robin: [00:09:34] and,

Keerstyn: [00:09:35] Just struggling to find joy and like just being drained by pretty much everything in their life, what would be the first thing that you would recommend them to do?

Robin: [00:09:44] the first thing, and this would work very well for anybody listening today is really just to give thought to. As an individual, what brings joy to you and using the definition that I gave, something that's lasting, right? So [00:10:00] let's not rely on things that a hurricane could roll in and wipe out.

Let's look at the things that are still going to be present. So these are usually. Deeper more contemplated types of things. So I, I can get you started. So it might be something like gratitude, a pandemic can roll in and gratitude can not be taken from you. So finding things that you're thankful for actively and expressing gratitude might be a real driver for you.

A real source of joy. Another one. Might be movement, which I'm saying from personal experience, when my body's in motion, I'm a different human and whether it's hitting a punching bag or riding my bike 40 miles, or, just dancing in the kitchen with my cat, but just moving, it just.

It feels good to feel good. And movement is something that really brings joy or relationships. we've talked about the beauty of relationships and these can be, you could pour effort into the really relationships of the people that are in your family. You [00:11:00] can really connect with people that are brand new to you and find commonality.

Find some kind of shared experience that, makes you a lot less different. There's so much goodness in that, it's not, helping someone to just get started, begins with what floats your boat and what are you doing about it? because I can sit here and say all day, that movement makes me feel great.

But if I'm not feeling like myself, I'm just not really on my game and feeling like my whole normal stuff. I'll take a look at my list of joys. And I'll see, gosh, I haven't moved in a week. I'm sitting at my desk eight hours a day, 12 hours a day and not doing anything. Of course, this is why I feel like this.

So having a list, adding to it as things come up and they will and making it visible. Put it on your phone, make it your, like your lock screen so that every time your phone, like you see, Oh gosh, these are the things that bring me joy. And I haven't done anything about any of these [00:12:00] things. I need to write my grandma a letter or whatever it is, but just being mindful of it and making space for these things.

That's the first place. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:12:10] absolutely. that's key, honestly. And I know that I even forget about some of these things like moving or I'm going on a run or cooking or whatever it is. It's hard, especially with this work from home, lifestyle, that's pretty much impacted the entire world. I know that.

it's hard to be able to shift your mind from working to your home life. And what does that all look like and how do we, embrace that and still be joyful and have gratitude around that?

What are some of the things that you have specifically been telling people during this COVID-19 time and working from home and adjusting at rapid fire, so to speak?

Obviously they might be very similar to what you just said, but, we have to adjust somehow. So

Robin: [00:12:58] you're right. And that's such a great [00:13:00] question. And the first thing that I ask people to do is when is the last time you played. Yeah, because think about this, we have gone from like full speed at, an office or a setting somewhere to full speed at home.

And the level of adjustment we have had to make to do that successfully is absolutely tremendous. And it required so much more, I think, than many of us realized. And we didn't. So often leave time to play. And I'm a child at heart, I'm not childish, but I am very childlike. And this idea of seeing life through this lens of awe and wonder, Oh, it's not going anywhere.

I might be middle-aged and have kids in my twenties, but I am like so into playing and I would encourage anybody to be like that. And the word that resonates with me that I've used with all these people who are working from home. Is recess. do you remember what it was like to be in elementary school and during one more history [00:14:00] lesson, watching the clock, just waiting for them or ring, and we just grab our coats and run outside as fast as we could.

Why are we not doing that now? Yeah, the mans that we're under with COVID-19 are so tremendous. If you can set an alarm, that's only five minutes long, it will do wonders for your soul. Go outside and play for five minutes or do something in your house for five minutes. Do it every day for a week. And I guarantee you're going to have a different outlook on the rest of your day.

And you're going to look forward to that bell going off just like an elementary school. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:14:41] absolutely. That's such a great idea too. And just to put a break in your work, I know that I've found that sometimes it's just

Home and work have become one big blob and it's hard to separate yourself. And so that's a great idea to be able to just set time aside to, [00:15:00] play literally or go in your yard or go on a walk around your neighborhood or whatever it might be just to get your mind outside of, your workflow and, Just to refresh yourself for even five minutes or 30 seriously or

Robin: [00:15:15] 30 right.

30 would be so much better, but I didn't think anybody would agree to it. I'd be so happy if they did things right, but just play accomplish nothing. I think that's the thing, whatever. Whatever that period of time looks like for you. You know what feels good? Do that, but do not accomplish anything, intentionally stop accomplishing stuff.

I think we are like nose to the grindstone all the time. Now that we're at home. And like you said, it is. So hard to separate our work life from our personal life. and that is so necessary. We could go on all day about how necessary that is. But if you've got this little five minute window to accomplish nothing, [00:16:00] Your nose better not be to the grindstone during those five minutes, the grindstone doesn't exist.

What is it put on Bruno Mars in the kitchen, or, take your dog for a quick walk or do jumping jacks, or just lay down and look at the clouds and get lost in how incredibly amazing they are. And they've been there all along. And what a gift you've given yourself, just noticing that they exist.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:16:25] absolutely. That's such a good idea. Do you have a story about how someone has really just shifted their mindset has come to you with this just drained mind.

Robin: [00:16:37] What'd you like to share that old man? Come on. How long do you have? Okay, so one of my, one of my clients is working out in Silicon Valley and, being that all my coaching is online.

And as on zoom, like I have the blessing of knowing people in so many times zones. And so I'm in the East coast and she's in the West coast. And. she [00:17:00] is she's in the software world. she's in the space of where health and software come together and it is a very active space. Let's put it like that.

She will never get her to do list checked off. it is just an average, very intense state of being, and, she is taken a toll. There is no question. And she is also working from home. And she has had a real difficult time separating work and home and downtime and play time. And what she has discovered is that here she is.

And in my opinion, one of the most beautiful parts of the United States working so hard, she hasn't even appreciated the fact that there is an ocean. Just blocks from her home. And so she has begun to recognize that being in the presence of the ocean without even being in the water, just being near, it does things for her.

And so she's began to schedule time. Yeah. Just to go and [00:18:00] be on the shore, soak up all that goes with being near the water. And she's taken up surfing, which is its side now. And just having a complete blast, learning how to surf and I'm hearing all these great stories of all the fun that she's having. But what was really interesting was, when we first started to work together, All she could talk about with how burdened she was, how little time she had, all this stuff on her plate, which we can all relate to.

And this concept of me saying take recess was just like, Oh my gosh, I don't have five minutes, but. When she began to try and she began to walk to the ocean and it was like a five minute commitment. She recognized that just doing that made her so much more productive and focused when she got back into home and she got back into doing and software development.

She had so much more to give because she had refilled her joy bucket. She had an empty. Joy bucket. It was all about work. And suddenly she's putting these beach experiences under the [00:19:00] joy bucket and she's realizing, wow, this is like the fuel that I needed. And yeah, the time that she didn't have suddenly became very much so available and these breaks got a little bit longer and a little bit more frequent and she's still got all of her work done.

And then some, because there's research on this and it's so interesting. They say that people who are joyful at work are 12%. More productive. And at first I looked at that and I thought 12%, like I would've thought it would have been so much higher, but then when I was thinking about, okay, if the average person does, let's say 50 tasks in a day, which I'm sure is really on the low side, but for easy math, 12%, you're talking six more things that you're getting done.

So on an average Wednesday, if you normally do 50 things and you're joyful, you have just gotten six of Thursday's things done before Thursday even gets here, simply because you're focusing on joy. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:19:59] that's [00:20:00] huge, especially

Robin: [00:20:01] for the

Keerstyn: [00:20:02] employee engagement perspective of things. you're way more engaged obviously, and you're excited again.

And. you're passionate about your work because you actually feel refreshed and rejuvenated and that's so important to remember. And I think that, especially now, we haven't forgetting that. Yeah. Quite often. I know I have, yeah. The first three months was like, alright, I need to go do this. and even if it's scheduling it on your calendar, like a work task,

Robin: [00:20:32] I think that's

Keerstyn: [00:20:33] a important step to take in order to make sure that it actually happens.

And that. you're actually making a commitment to it. if that's the right stuff to take for you. Absolutely. That's awesome. I'm so glad to hear that she is now thriving and is.

Robin: [00:20:50] Way

Keerstyn: [00:20:50] more joyful and, taking up surfing and doing all these fun things and

Robin: [00:20:56] still getting her job done and loving it. I think it's making her more [00:21:00] resilient and I really think that's what it's about.

the demands don't go anywhere, you know that we still have to do all this stuff. we have more to do it with, we can jump into it with, enthusiasm and, optimism, as opposed to just feeling like we're just dragging tail through the day. It makes such a huge difference and she added yoga.

That's another thing. The scroll was too busy to take five minutes as added surfing beach walks and yoga and is just killing life. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:21:28] I believe it. I believe that for sure. That's awesome. I'm so glad to hear that. And I'm so glad to hear that. she was able to make those steps in the right direction to be able to invest in herself and her mental health and her wellbeing.

Absolutely. That's awesome.

Robin: [00:21:43] Cool. Little bit goes a long way.

Keerstyn: [00:21:45] Yes, absolutely. If, so Robin, if people want to invest in their own life, through you, what are some good ways to, either reach out to you or, get connected to you?

Robin: [00:21:58] Yeah, I so appreciate you [00:22:00] asking I'm working on all kinds of fun things.

It's all part of my world domination plan, and just want to take the world over with joy one person at a time. So

Keerstyn: [00:22:08] the

Robin: [00:22:09] best way to get in on that, there are a couple of things. my website, yeah. Is probably the easiest resource. It is joy to the world, coaching that come. And when people go to joy to the world, coaching.com, if they hang out for a little while, This magical box will appear that will invite them into my free Facebook group.

And that's a place where I interact daily with the members of this group and it's private. And what I love about it is that we've got almost 500 people from around the world who post in the group, what brings them joy today, what they noticed, what they're thankful for. And. It is just so contagious.

Like when I read that a guy in India, I had a beautiful conversation with another person on the street. I'm so blessed by that. And I want to go meet people on his street. You cannot help, but just get sucked [00:23:00] into it and focus on living more joyfully. if they go on my website, they'll get invited into that.

They will also get a couple of posts a month. I've got a blog that I write, That's free. And so a one, one form gets you both the Facebook group and the posts. I'm on LinkedIn. They can connect with me there. I've got courses that I'm developing, a year long program that I'm in the process of putting together.

I just want to make it easy for people. So got lots of coaching programs, but yeah, I just want to know people. Yeah. I want to pour joy into them because I know that they're not going to keep it to themselves. They're going to pour it into other people. Awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:23:36] I am going to go join that Facebook group and do that.

the show notes have the access to that and where to go from there.

Robin: [00:23:44] so yeah. Awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:23:45] Do you have any final thoughts Robin, before we, depart for the day?

Robin: [00:23:49] I think my final thought is to just really encourage people to take a look at this day. You've got this day, you're listening right now.

Take a look at the day that's before [00:24:00] you and ask yourself, when will I play today? Okay, what am I going to do with my five? It's a recess. Put that thing on your phone serve you. You will not regret it. It's an easy one.

Keerstyn: [00:24:16] Awesome. Cool. thank you so much for all of your knowledge around joy and how we can start investing in our personal selves and professional selves in order to be more productive, but also, the merger I fall.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank

Robin: [00:24:30] you for having me. I love being with you today and I just wish you all the best with your podcast. I love what you're doing. I'm still thankful that you're doing what you're doing. Kiersten.

View Details

Jim Immel joins us on the podcast this week to talk about being a middle manager. It can be outright difficult to know exactly how to support your team when you are new to a managerial position, but it can also be incredibly rewarding. Listen in here!

Find Jim on:
His Website!

Transcription below (typos may occur...)
Jim: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] When I was 30 years old, there was a manager that we always said, he really thinks about what have you done lately? Cause it's almost like what you did 10 years ago really didn't matter, but what have you done lately? And the joke became he's actually, he's so forward focused.

It's he doesn't even care what you've done lately. What are you doing tomorrow? And that's the world we're living in. What are you doing tomorrow? What are you doing tomorrow? And What I believe is very effective is take a few minutes and look back before you go forward. Keerstyn: [00:00:58]

welcome to the podcast, Jim. I am really [00:01:00] excited that you're here today to talk a little bit about what you do and who you are and how you help people in the past and the present. do you want to just give us a brief, intro of who you are, what you do and then what your mission

Jim: [00:01:10] is?

Yes. Thank you. what I do today is I'd love to develop those who influence others. How I got here has been a long journey. I came out of college. First job was selling insurance right away. And so I was using what I like to call the people's skills right away. Being able to connect with, Prospects clients and be able to help them meet their goals and objectives.

And over the last 40 years, my business has evolved, but it's always been the same. It's been connecting with people and helping them get what they want. And so what I do today, the last 21 years, I've been introduced as a business coach and primarily working with. small, medium sized businesses that believe that they can get better.

And many [00:02:00] of my clients are looking for how do I transition the business to the people who have helped me build this business? So I get introduced, via succession planning, helping people be able to transition their business to others.

Keerstyn: [00:02:15] Yeah, absolutely. That's really interesting, especially because that transition is oftentimes the younger people, those middle managers that are now meeting the rise up into the executive roles or those type of seats as C-suites spots, what are, what's some advice that you would give those people when they're in that transition phase?

Jim: [00:02:37] it's interesting, there's, when you take a look at the generations and then who is rising up to be leaders, first of all, I look at people in three different ways and they can be all three, but, there's leadership, leading people, there's managing a lot of people are introduced as managers and what they do is they manage processes and.

[00:03:00] Procedures and goals, but really at the end of the day, if you're a good manager, you're also a good leader. You're influencing others and encouraging them to grow, take on more. And then there are top performers. There are people, that are just really good at what they do. And you want to put them in that playground where they're able to do what they do, not necessarily managing other people, but what's interesting is.

Everybody in a small, medium sized business is leading. you show up with a, an attitude every day. You show up with positive or negative emotion, and we all lead by example, people pay attention. And so I just really like to approach it as everybody is in leadership. It's what kind of leadership are you providing?

but the managers, what's very interesting in my practice today and I've shared this with other business coaches, I'm in a network with some other people and I'm [00:04:00] calling it the missing generation because 2008, 2009, a lot of people who would be in those. Upper management positions, went to bigger companies and that's what the security was.

And I'm calling it the missing generation because it's like the upper fifties are transitioning to the 30, 35 year old, sometimes 38. And there's a missing generation, which is a great opportunity for a lot of young people and to work on their skills and leadership abilities. And, there's another generation coming up and I've talked to other people about is a lot of people in their twenties and early thirties that are actually providing, I like to call it leadership from within they're impacting and influencing the company just by their, what if we did this?

Have we ever thought about this? Just the passion that they have as [00:05:00] they approach their work. And so there are a lot of talented young people, when I'm coaching, the business owners are saying, are you paying attention to this person?

Keerstyn: [00:05:09] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What is missing in those? I guess you call it the missing generation.

Is there something that's missing that, we could see in this younger generation that we could help them coach them to,

Jim: [00:05:23] to stair-step real quick and jump over a couple of steps. Yeah. again, I have a practice, I'm not. Coach and a bunch of other coaches, I have a practice, but in my practice, there are a lot of people that have ended up in that. They're now 55 where they're now 50 years old and they were in their prime getting ready to step up.

And then 2008, 2009 came along. And what I'm saying is that there are a lot of people that are staying safe. In those roles, we've always done it this way. No, we tried that back 10 years ago. [00:06:00] there's a little bit of, what I like to call a fixed mindset. There's a book called mindset by Carol Dweck, which is a.

Awesome book for anybody to read. and it talks about the difference between growth and fixed mindsets. And there honestly, there are a lot of people that have that fixed mindset who have found themselves into management roles and they're being safe today. The world is changing fast and there are a lot of creative people, innovative people that your business is competing with.

and so I really try to encourage my clients that are in leadership and management roles to bring that out, get that innovation out, let them know that, it's OK to, strategically go into a new idea. the managers now can help them by asking them questions to develop their critical thinking skills, because there's a.

There's a little bit of a paradox. These people have all this talent, but they've grown up with Google. And 10 [00:07:00] years ago, Google is not a search engine. It's an answer engine. And There's a, one of the things in a lot of my projects, the business owners are saying, how help this youth help this talent develop critical thinking skills.

And so just get into that state of wonderment of what if, I wonder if, and, have the courage to keep moving forward, but that's a big part of the managers. You will influence how much of that you get out of people, or you will. stifle that type of creativity. And what's really interesting is if you don't connect with them, if you don't really know the people you're leading.

And if you're just more about what are we going to do today, and here's the process, boom. If there's a low connection, but there's a high challenge in what they're doing. People can get frustrated. And so it, for the people listening, if you just think about these four [00:08:00] quadrants, if you go from low connection to high connection on the horizontal and then the vertical, if you go to low challenge, high challenge, What we always won is that upper right hand quadrant, which is high connection in high challenge.

The top performers want to be engaged. They do not want to be bored. What happens to a lot of first job people, they get out of college, they get hired, and that there's a low connection with a manager. Maybe the manager has too many people. There's a low challenge because they don't have time to really prepare you for giving you a challenge.

Top performers don't stay in that quarter. That's the board. I am board quadrant when it's low connection, low challenge, their resume is getting updated far quicker than they want. but if it's a low connection in a high challenge, that's where frustration comes [00:09:00] in.

And then the high connection, but a low challenge. they're just, they're just gonna get bored after a while they liked the connection. They'll stay longer at the same point in time. How am I advancing? Where am I going? I have these dreams and these goals. And so here in the Midwest, one of the biggest things that I end up coaching the managers is to provide a.

More of a challenge to people because they're talented and how do you do it? And so I don't know if this happens throughout the country, but definitely in the Midwest. Many of us grew up saying don't be pushy. grandma and mom taught us that. And there's a disconnect in the mind of, I'm pushing them too much.

Yeah, really? What it's about is the manager many times gets uncomfortable making people uncomfortable. let me [00:10:00] ask you a question. When have you grown when you were challenged or have you grown when you were comfortable?

Keerstyn: [00:10:06] When I was challenged and on the foreseen circumstances.

Absolutely. I would agree with you there.

Jim: [00:10:15] Yeah. Yeah. it's interesting is this is that 10 years ago I went to a meeting and the speaker says, write down the three times that, you grew the most, and this was before lunch break. So people are thinking about it. And then after lunch, he says, find the three times when you were challenged, the most.

And nobody had to think about it because there, the answer was already there. And so I'm encouraging a lot of, the managers and business owners to build a better connection. And by the way, some people just aren't naturally wired to build a better connection because it's just, they're facts driven there.

They see the goal, there, their blind spot is they see what has to [00:11:00] happen. So clearly they think it's obvious to other people and it's not. And building a connection, take time, especially early on. When you starting to manage and somebody else's directly reporting to you get to know them. I have way too many stories where I have a 15 minute meeting with somebody and I ended up knowing more than about them than the manager who's been managing them for the last time.

Yeah. There's curiosity. And a few questions. You haven't talked about their hobbies, getting them to talk about

Keerstyn: [00:11:38] things.

Jim: [00:11:39] Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:11:40] Absolutely. Some people would say that, their personal life is almost going into their professional life. What are your thoughts on how that moves is starting to impact organizations, especially because of this work from home thing.

a few other different circumstances in the recent years. what are your thoughts on

Jim: [00:11:57] that? there's this work [00:12:00] from home thing is, has been very interesting, it's really interesting is talking to a few people, but at your age is when they're really loving what they do, because a lot of people can disconnect and reconnect pretty quickly.

Many of them will say, when I'm really busy and I've got things going on at home, I'm at work thinking, I need to get something done at home. And then when I'm at home, I know I got some, get some things done at work, so they could about at home. So there's a home and work thing. We've always had to deal with it.

It's just now physically it's different. and, it's really about, Time management, the managing of your energy, making sure that you're as effective and efficient as possible. And that's really where I think a lot of the managers can help is to help people understand, that a little bit of planning.

Goes a long way. And what's great about your [00:13:00] software and not actually using them myself, but just reviewing it. Is there so much there that your managers can leverage because you're keeping the main thing, you're not getting, here's your 33 items on your to do list, which, by the way, Only 20% of it ever gets done, but 33 items on it.

but it helps you keep the main thing. And I think it's, how you manage your energy and your effort, in eliminating the distractions definitely helps.

Keerstyn: [00:13:36] Yeah, absolutely. What would you tell a middle manager who is trying to really, focus their employee and help them grow, but.

I was working from home and a few new changes have happened in the past few months. What would be one piece of advice that you would give them in that state?

Jim: [00:13:54] So I'll blend this answer in with what I think is a standard regardless. [00:14:00] it's interesting. we're always in, what are we doing next?

And, it's. When I was 30 years old, there was a manager that we always said, he really thinks about what have you done lately? Cause it's almost like what you did 10 years ago really didn't matter, but what have you done lately? And the joke became he's actually, he's so forward focused.

It's he doesn't even care what you've done lately. What are you doing tomorrow? And that's the world we're living in. What are you doing tomorrow? What are you doing tomorrow? And What I believe is very effective is take a few minutes and look back before you go forward. so Kiersten, if I was to ask you just to imagine where you were a year ago, 12 months before COVID and COVID didn't even exist, it wasn't even on our map.

And by the way, weren't those grades at times, 12 months and you're thinking about where you are now. If I were to ask you the question during that 12 months [00:15:00] between now and then as you look back. What would you say are the three things that you've learned about yourself and you've learned about how you can impact others?

where have you grown in the last year?

Keerstyn: [00:15:12] Yeah, absolutely. I definitely had a job transition. I, move a, yeah, I've been in different circumstances that I didn't think I would be in. And, I think that's been a big growth. Perspective, but then yeah, like a good way to look back and think about what you have grown.

Jim: [00:15:32] But and through this COVID thing, that's one of the questions that I've been asking a lot of business owner is who's surprising you, who is, who are you really starting to wetness where here's what I say, where other people are reaching out to them and asking their advice. And in fact, even improving because they are reaching out to this person or that person.

And this is where I'm coming up with the people in the twenties, [00:16:00] because technology is a big part of this. They're much more comfortable, but it has been huge. The number of clients who have just mentioned about how 50, 55 year old people are getting mentored by people in their twenties and their thirties.

And so what is leadership? It's influencing others. and so looking back to why I asked that question, Kiersten is because you know how far you've come in the last year. So what I've done is I've now set you up to get you to believe in yourself, who talks to you more than anybody else. Yourself.

Keerstyn: [00:16:43] Yeah,

Jim: [00:16:44] you do. We all do. We're all thinking, right? What if so, if I'm going to influence you to think about the future, go, I call this, go back before you go forward. It's also a great way to very early on. [00:17:00] If you were to have a new direct report and you want to build a connection, what are you connecting to?

who have they been led by in the past? If, even if it's their first job out of college, they've been managed by other people called mom and dad, coaches,

Keerstyn: [00:17:18] grandma

Jim: [00:17:20] professors. yeah. w who was your, who, what was your favorite class and why? And usually it comes down to the professor or whatever.

So you go back before you go forward. It's also a great way to build a connection. A real connection, instead of saying, what's your favorite color? it's connecting with people. And then now what I would do is do you believe you just went through some things in the last 12 months that were huge.

So it may not be possible to go through that much growth next year. That's those were back on the list. [00:18:00] But you can think bigger because you know how far you've come. Most people when they're thinking about the future are limiting themselves because we don't see the future, but we know the past.

And so now I've built a connection with you. And even if I'm in the Midwest, I can challenge you just so now, imagine it's 12 months from now and I ask you the same question. And what are those three biggest areas of growth? What were the biggest challenges? So some people will say, I want the growth, but I don't want the challenge.

so it's okay. But that would be a good question for you to consider, now they know how far you've gotten in the past. Is that helpful to you to think about the future?

Keerstyn: [00:18:48] Yeah.

Jim: [00:18:50] Yeah, and it's a great way to build a connection very early on. And again, with, your software and you're starting to plug things in, and [00:19:00] that is, so it's also an interesting with the people in their twenties and early thirties.

I asked him what they think about the word accountability. And many of them don't have a real good feel for it because a lot of times they've been managed in the past and accountability meant blame, or it meant, it's somebody, the Monday quarterback looking at the, in the background. So a lot of the middle managers I've been working with is just ask this question.

How do you want to keep score Kiersten? How do you want to keep score? Cause you're I already know you're a growth oriented person you want to keep score. what's interesting is some people have a negative reaction to the word accountability. What's interesting is how many businesses they want to have a culture of winning of competition of outperforming their competition.

They want to keep score, on the weekends, watching sports, they're keeping [00:20:00] score. And that's really what accountability is. And I think that's really what you can keep score of, is using your software.

Keerstyn: [00:20:07] Yeah, absolutely. I really like how you said that too, especially because.

Oftentimes we have metrics that don't really have a whole lot of meaning behind them, but when you really do plug into metrics that actually give you a score that's valuable and consistent. And, w you'll be able to see that's huge and extremely valuable. And I think that's. A lot of the time over looks or, we're measuring things that aren't as valuable as what we, would hope they'd be able to think that they would be.

And I, yeah, I totally agree with you there, for sure.

Jim: [00:20:41] So as you're managing and leading people, is it important that they keep that they set the goals that they establish how you're going to keep score? And it is because they're taking the ownership of that. So when you have a tough time finding a metric, here's a [00:21:00] question that you can ask of the person in this world.

Many times lead to a metric. Kiersten. This is really, it's going to be difficult to measure this. What is the question I can ask you when we meet next month? What is the question? I can ask you to understand how much progress you're making on this. Yeah. So when I asked you to come up with the question, you're owning it and many times it actually will lead you to something you can keep score.

Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:21:37] I like that a lot, especially cause it's consistent. And, they know what's coming and they know what the answer will be hopefully by the next month, cross your fingers and maybe they don't know the full question or the full answer either, but that's an area of growth and coaching your team members.

And yeah, I really liked that. That's a great idea.

Jim: [00:21:57] and you can always give them a heads up that I'm looking forward [00:22:00] to asking you this question three days for whatever would we be?

Keerstyn: [00:22:04] Yeah, absolutely

Jim: [00:22:06] focus on that.

the 80 20 rule works in so many areas, but that's why those monthly goals, 80% of that work on that goal will get done in the last 20% of today's.

but if they know how to keep score and they know how to win, and they know that's what you're looking for here. Here's something else that I think your managers could benefit from. Is when they meet that goal, we can say, great, what's next. like the guy I was kidding about what have you done lately?

What are you doing tomorrow? but lean in show appreciation, but when you show appreciation, if I say, thank you. you might forget even later today, because look at how much information comes at you every single day. And so the whirlwind of the day really dilutes, that feeling of I've been appreciated because [00:23:00] there's always something else going on when your managers are showing appreciation.

If they can think of one or two things that they impact because of it. Even if it's impacting the next person in line to work on the project, you are giving this person a gift. They're not going to start it from being behind. They've got a few days early that they're going to be able to start on their part of the project.

I want to thank you for that. That's good teamwork. You can find the impact and usually it takes 10. 20 seconds at most to include the impact. I love the word impact by the way, because it's an impactful, I'm sorry. It's, I use that a lot more than it affects this, that affects that I like to use impact.

Keerstyn: [00:23:46] Yeah, absolutely. I wouldn't have to agree with you there too. And it makes people feel more valued as well. are they ranked on a deeper level? Absolutely. And appreciation on a deeper level for sure.

Jim: [00:23:58] And so [00:24:00] if it's a big thing, that's obvious to everybody about what the impact is. I think he got a lot of juice out of finding something small because how you're paying attention to the small stuff and your people know you're paying attention to the small stuff that, this is going to impact so-and-so and, You know that person who just completed the project is going well.

Yeah, I guess it does, so it doesn't have to be a big thing. In fact, I would argue that sometimes the smaller things make a bigger difference.

Keerstyn: [00:24:31] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I would have to agree with you there as well. Cause, yeah, I think the smaller things. Make it feel like the bigger things are valuable, but those smaller things are just as valuable if not more valuable because they really show the hard work and dedication behind the big things that have come.

yeah, absolutely.

Jim: [00:24:53] go ahead.

Keerstyn: [00:24:54] Go ahead. All right.

Jim: [00:24:56] back to the mindset, the growth mindset versus [00:25:00] fixed part of what's in that book is a lot of times people who are really smart, And through high school, people are telling them how smart they are and then once they get challenged and they get a B plus for being minus they're thinking they might, that's smart.

have I reached my limit? the growth mindset is don't talk to people about how smart they are or how great this looks. Talk to them about the effort that they put in. Here's what I know is that you had to put in the effort, this is something that was beyond my expectations and I appreciate the effort that you've put into it.

how did, and I might even get curious and say, how did you prepare for this? How did you plan for this? What did you do? again, connection show that you care. Yeah,

Keerstyn: [00:25:48] absolutely. Absolutely. It takes much more effort for some people than others. And I think that's a really appropriate way of saying that, especially if you are a manager with a new employee or, have a few more direct [00:26:00] reports than before it's not everyone's on the same playing field.

and oftentimes our jobs and have different things that we have to do. And, Sally might have to put in so much effort than Sue, but Sally's outcome is not as great as Sue, but really who and not to compare, but to, provide some emphasis on how grateful we are of their work and how they're continuing their growth and how they're investing in themselves.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jim: [00:26:30] Yeah. Just listening to you there reminded me that, Every think about this, every employee has their own brand, you know who to go to, who's going to get it done. Who's dependable who might do it at the last minute. we start to develop this brand and managing UFOs talent, or even somebody, in the final years of their career.

What is their brand, what's the impact they're there [00:27:00] that they're making. A lot of employees have never looked at that. and, for the people that are being led that are towards the end of their career, what's your career captain experience gonna look like, how are you going to transition some of this wisdom to others?

and then. Talk to them about witnessing them, transitioning wisdom to others and they impact, just keep feeding them to encourage them to do more. a lot of it is around effort. it's interesting. I did a lot of coaching in sports, not just, in business and there were kids I could. Show up and put in the effort. They just had a lot of natural talent. And then a few years later they're being passed by,

Keerstyn: [00:27:43] by

Jim: [00:27:43] the runes I put in the effort and it happens in business too.

So it's, that's what the growth mindset is about. And also, being able to take risk and understanding, John Maxwell has a title of a [00:28:00] book, sometimes we. When sometimes we've learned, so looking at what did we learn, is a very valuable and to reflect on as individuals.

Yeah. Reflective learning is a good teacher.

Keerstyn: [00:28:19] Yeah, absolutely. And it definitely helps that growth mindset even more. And, a lot of us, you to really take in all of the learnings rather than just, applying them in the short term memory box,

and get a longterm concept that we actually embrace. And, yeah.

Of success behind. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jim: [00:28:39] one of my favorite clients, when I'm talking about, sometimes we win. Sometimes we learn and something happened in his business and he looked at me and he says, I just want it to be public tuition. I don't want it to be private tuition know it's you still have to manage people.

You still have to encourage in really with the critical thinking skills. I think one of the. [00:29:00] Easiest tips for your managers to use is when people come to you with questions, stop being Google, stop, giving them the answer, ask them what do you think that three or four best options are when you think about what do you think?

The three of us options are? And when I learned this, I thought, you gotta start with the end in mind. what does success look like? But what's interesting when you ask that question, they'll tell you about what they're thinking about. And then you can just say, let's think about that. The end game, a manager and that's now executed.

What are those three biggest benefits that we're going to get out of this?

Keerstyn: [00:29:47] Yeah.

Jim: [00:29:49] And then go back. It's interesting. Then you go back again and say, what are your options? They might change. Yeah. So what you're doing there is you're [00:30:00] coaching them and teaching them, but you're also understanding where they are from a thinking standpoint.

And then still I call this day off the solution. Don't give them the answer again. Just say, let's get together next week. And these are three good options and sell me on which one you think is best. Have them tell you, let them think about it. Don't want them just Google.

Keerstyn: [00:30:28] Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really valuable thing.

And, I think that we often forget that it's sometimes in our minds easier to just say here's the answer. I go on with your day. but oftentimes when we're investing in people and really coaching them, we want to, make sure that they're thinking and they're putting their concepts and ideas behind their thoughts and their goals and their actions.

because then it actually makes it more influential too and helps them [00:31:00] really embrace it and get excited about it and, want to continue to do better for sure.

Jim: [00:31:05] Yeah. it's interesting. And the toughest thing for me to in my coaching is what I'm going to share with you now, because when I asked people, what do you think is best?

And you can feel their passion cause they're selling me on it. and so you're passionate about it and you've got the plan and here I am on the other side and I want to add something so bad. But am I really making it about me because if they're passionate about it, so I've just made this up, but it's what I believe.

It's the lowest common denominator between how good the plan is and the level of passion, because they own it. If I had something, did I just move it from their idea to my idea. And so their passion might go from 90 down to 70%. [00:32:00] But the plan was an 85. I just moved it from 85 plan down to a 70, because I took away that passion.

So many times I'm sitting there going perfect. How do you see getting started? What are you going to do? This is exciting. I just try to build them up and get them to, be excited about executing it because when they're passionate, think about things that you've done. When you're passionate about it, you run into a roadblock.

What do you do? Figure it out.

Keerstyn: [00:32:29] Get through it. Yeah,

Jim: [00:32:30] absolutely. So quick, quit making it about you sometimes. And it is cause I've shared this with so many people. People tell me, boy, that is tough. they're setting their good man. I've got an idea, but it's you're just encouraging them. You are a better leader and manager.

And if you're a leader, you give credit to others, you take responsibility. Okay. So when you make it that when you add something, [00:33:00] are you really making it about you? Are you trying to get the credit shift and that's going to limit your growth? It's going to limit your ability to grow within an organization and impact others.

When you give you get more back, people understand it.

Keerstyn: [00:33:17] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely awesome. Jim. thanks for sharing that with us. I think that was really valuable, especially for managers to put in to their own, ideas. Yeah. Not necessarily taking away their passion or their employee's passion for something that, and making it their thing instead of our thing.

So

Jim: [00:33:36] absolutely. So Marshall Goldsmith, who's written quite a few books. It's a, I'll give him credit because it's, just staying off the solution. and, I've witnessed it now since I learned it from him. And I came up with the lowest common denominator thing, because I think it's true, I'll be the first to.

To admit that I've made it about [00:34:00] me, share an idea that they, okay, why did they do it, in the whole back, but when you're both passionate and you're focused on the same mission, people do want that energy to come from you too. So I don't want. That to be dismissed, but you want, I don't want to overrun them with your energy and your passion because it's, again, the passion paradox you can make people feel like it's about you when you overrun them with your passion.

Okay. So trying to manage that as well. That's a coaching tip. I give a lot of newer, younger managers. Awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:34:37] Yeah. I would have to agree with you there. Energy is a valuable thing and a very positive thing and really productive. but you're right. Passion can be overtaken and misconstrued. Absolutely.

Awesome. Okay. Thanks for sharing with us, Jim. This has been really awesome and I'm really. Happy that we got a chance to have a conversation about middle managers and how they can continue [00:35:00] to impact others in their organizations. If people want to reach out to you, what is a good, where is a good place to do that?

and how can it,

Jim: [00:35:09] yeah, just, email, Jim at I M E L. Associates all spelled out Jim and Emily associates.com.

Keerstyn: [00:35:19] Awesome and sweet. Do you have any, advice for middle managers or leaders alike on how to be the best leader and manager? They can be?

Jim: [00:35:32] So here's one thing I keep in the back of my mind all the time.

It's a phrase that my dad didn't use often, but I remember him using it and care should be a verb. So people should know that you care, they should witness it. And I think some of the tips that I shared with you today is really about caring by not giving them the answers and being able to connect early by asking questions, going deep. [00:36:00]

it's interesting. one of the people I'm coaching now, when I first met her, she talked about I'm a little tired today because we have baseball all weekend and that was hot out and that type of thing. And so what did I do for the first 15 minutes is I got her to talk to me about her kids and the baseball and her husband growing up, playing baseball and all sorts of things.

But I learned so much about her through that process. Immediately, I'm coaching her. What's very interesting is at my age, a lot of times people think there's this big difference between millennials, by the way. I don't believe a lot of what is it? yeah. Yeah. When you invest sometime like I do, that is not an issue when you're investing some time upfront.

Yeah. And, they call it the experience [00:37:00] bias because I'm not experiencing what they experienced, just imagine the technology you have now versus when I was your age. I was showing off a calculator, No, it was, It was totally different, but when you show you care and you connect there isn't this difference.

I've never had a problem with helping coach the youth.

Keerstyn: [00:37:24] Awesome. thank you so much, Jim, for, having a conversation today and, really helping us learn how to invest in our people and how to invest in ourselves and our passions.

Jim: [00:37:34] Okay, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity Keerstyn.

Keerstyn: [00:37:38] Yeah, for sure.

View Details

Sara Stern joins me on the podcast this week to talk about family businesses and how they can tackle EOS as organizations. Sometimes family businesses can be tricky, but they also can be creative and rewarding when using the right EOS tools to tackle their issues.

Links to find Sara:

• Her Website!
• Linkedin

Transcription below (some typos might exist..):

[00:00:00] Sara: [00:00:00] any company that runs on EOS, uses it, meaning, we get really clear about what their core values are and the core values in any company that runs on EOS. Are all about what makes you a unique place to work. And it's when you hire and fire and review and reward and recognize your people according to your core values that builds that culture.

Yeah. My favorite core value that a family business had was that they are seriously silly. That was one of their core values. And it was absolutely true. They were very good at the work they do. And they took it very serious seriously, but they're also completely hilarious goofballs. and that came directly out of the founder of that family business.

There was a third generation or a second generation getting ready to run it. And that came directly out of the personality of the founder of that. And that's one of the things that I think is really amazing when family businesses use EOS is that core values conversation. Isn't some sort of [00:01:00] weird.

Corporate culture, yucky thing it's looking at, who are we? Who have we always been? Who will we always be? And that almost always points back to a founder and the kind of people that dug in to help found that business and the kind of values that person has passed down through generations. That's really fun. Keerstyn: [00:01:56] Welcome to the podcast, Sarah. I am so excited that you're here today.

Do [00:02:00] you want to give us a brief intro of how you got involved in your work and what you do now?

Sara: [00:02:04] Sure. almost 20 years ago, I became a certified coach, back in the days when I would tell people I was a coach and they'd say, Do you coach tennis? what kind of coach are you? So it was very early on in those days.

The, reason I became a coaches because I wanted to have a huge, positive impact in the world. And once upon a time thought that way being a doctor or a teacher or something, and then realized working with business owners is the way that made the most sense for me, that over time turned into doing some work with coaching at target.

With leaders there and their headquarters, and then led to me working with the owners of family businesses. And from there, I became an EOS implementer and for five years have been doing that. And part of that work includes, teaching them. So back to the, being a teacher, I got to do that a little bit, but also coaching [00:03:00] them and facilitating really tough conversations that they have.

And I'm from that is from some new work I'm doing as well. Helping family businesses really understand the big picture of what it takes to have a strong family business, and bring in the advisors that they need. and that business is called the Sage pages.

Keerstyn: [00:03:19] So it's cool. I guess one of the first questions I have is what makes a family business EOS implementer a bit different than just a EOS business implementer?

Sara: [00:03:31] I'd say, I probably going to say it's just two things. I really implement EOS purely. I don't do it differently than any other EOS implementer. I guess the two things that make me probably different is one. I just have a big passion for family business. So that's where I spend my time and energy and marketing and the world I know the most about.

And then I might also say I'm probably a little more strict about, some of the tools. Then [00:04:00] maybe another EOS implementer. I think there's people in the world who think, Oh, it's a family business. We can be okay with it. The entire leadership team being family members, whether or not they're actually skilled, to be in that role.

And I'm probably a little bit. Less okay. With that. Maybe I'm guessing because I really take it seriously that the leadership team should be absolutely the right people in the right seat.

but I think I might bring a little bit more strictness or. Or confidence or stories I'm making the argument that really is the right way to do it for your family business, even though it might hurt feelings.

Keerstyn: [00:04:36] Yeah, absolutely. Do you want to tell one of those stories of why it's important to have different people in different seats instead of just your entire family on the top of the C suite?

Oh my

Sara: [00:04:48] gosh. Do we have all day? Yeah, I'd love to here's one of them, it was a family business. dad was third generation, two sons, two fourth [00:05:00] generation sons. In the business, working in the business, one fourth generation son had no interest in a fourth generation daughter was not interested either.

the kind of running assumption was that one of those sons would run the business. meaning he would sit in that integrator seat, as we started working on their org chart, which we call the accountability charts, it just became really obvious that this other key leader in the business who was not a relative, not a member of the family at all, was the person uniquely skilled to take that role. it ended up being a very deep conversation, with that family member.

Actually being really moved and crying in the session being touched that the family would trust him in this case, him, to run that, to run their business, that had their name on the door. And what also came out of, it was a huge sigh of relief for the next generation members. Who'd grown up their whole [00:06:00] lives.

wondering which one would run the business. And wondering if they were really capable or interested in doing it. So it was a really powerful the day we decided that, and that was now almost three years ago, that business is thriving and the family members are thriving in the positions where they ended up being.

And I will say actually only one of the sons stayed in the business. The other one realized it wasn't the right place for him, but they're all now in careers and in jobs that they're thriving in. And the non family member who's sitting in that key role is also thriving. So absolutely the right choice for them.

Keerstyn: [00:06:38] Yeah, absolutely. So what are some of those things that. Get these family members or just these businesses in general from like we're really struggling. We should talk to an EOS implementer. What are some of those pains that they're feeling? And you mentioned a few already, but on average would I buy?

Sara: [00:06:56] Yeah, I would say most of the ones that come to me [00:07:00] are, the owning generation or the generation that's leading it, which might be first or second or third generation. Coming to realize, Oh my goodness, this next generation of my family wants to come in here and we don't know where they fit. Where should they be?

what should their role be? That's almost always a way a family business, comes to me other times. It might be, Oh, we're just not growing anymore. Profits are struggling. Of course, many businesses profits are struggling right now. it might also be that they've become a flavor of the month business where.

The leadership is like, Oh, read this book and then they try something for a little while and then read another book and we'll try something for a little while. And it's we just have to get focused, pick a direction. And they've heard that, EOS is a really valuable way to

Keerstyn: [00:07:46] absolutely.

Absolutely. That's really interesting. So I guess, Yeah, what's during this COVID thing, what has been some of the issues that family businesses in particular, we've never actually had a family business person [00:08:00] on

Sara: [00:08:00] the hub. So

Keerstyn: [00:08:01] this is a really interesting new topic that I bet a

Sara: [00:08:04] lot

Keerstyn: [00:08:05] dealt with before.

so I guess what are some of those things that people have been dealing with lately that. Shoot. They didn't know it was gonna hit them like a brick two months ago. yeah, sure.

Sara: [00:08:17] I'll share this. I would guess. according to research, two thirds of privately held company, and these are family businesses.

So I bet you do have a lot of family businesses who listen to this podcast, so hello to all of you out there. So glad you're listening and I love that you're out in the world. so here's, one thing, family businesses of course are experiencing the other things, the things other people. Are experiencing, how do we keep our people safe?

for some people, their industries are growing right now, or their businesses growing others, they're shrinking. They might be shrinking, in really big ways or in small ways and figuring out who are the right people, right? So those are a lot of the common things that I'm seeing, but I'll tell you this, historically, a family businesses, it does actually tend to fare [00:09:00] quite well in the challenged, challenging times like this.

And there's been research about why in the world that is, and some of the research is that family businesses tend to have family members who are willing to work for free. So that's one of the reasons family members will come in and pitch in and help when times are really tough. one of the other reasons that research has found is that they tend to have very loyal, .

Employees. there's so many stories of family businesses who've been around for a hundred years or 90, or, or more than a hundred, who, for example, maybe during the great depression didn't, lay people off and then that's just part of their history and then they didn't do it again. at the.com when the.

When the bust happened, they didn't do it in 2008. yeah. And they're trying not to do it again. So they tend to have very loyal employees who stick around for it a long time, and trust the employer and are maybe willing to work fewer hours. so that nobody gets laid off. For example, that's something Marvin windows has done.

They did in 2008. They're [00:10:00] doing it again now. family business there. a pretty famous one, but lots and lots of family businesses take that same

Keerstyn: [00:10:07] approach. Absolutely. Why do you think that is that they are not willing to lay off people? Is that their great culture? Is it the way that they've set up the company?

what

Sara: [00:10:17] I think? there's a couple of reasons. some research has said this in some, it's just Sarah speaking here, but, a couple of the reasons are, and this is why I love working with family businesses. They tend to be looking, they have a very long horizon. Years wise, They're looking at how do I build a business, my grandkids can run, and they're also looking typically they are looking widely in their community, So how can I run a business and serve my community? So the community is still here to support the business. I think when you have those kind of, that kind of a viewpoint and that kind of thing. The horizon, you tend to want to do more creative things like, decrease hours or [00:11:00] work four day weeks versus just chopping, entire positions out of the business.

That's again, a little bit of research and a little bit of, what I see happening, in the kind of conversations I'm having, it doesn't mean family businesses. Don't run. Smart businesses and don't make those hard decisions. I don't want to suggest that. it just means, I think they have a different kind of horizon that causes them to be in a lot of ways, a little more creative, and certainly willing to maybe.

Put off having profits for a year or two in order to continue to maintain their culture and the loyalty. And of course the health of the community that they're in.

Keerstyn: [00:11:38] Yeah, absolutely. So I think culture is a really big part of family businesses. How do you use EOS to build that culture?

Sara: [00:11:47] that's a great question.

So yeah, we use it in the similar ways that any company that runs on EOS, uses it, meaning, we get really clear about what their core values are and the core values [00:12:00] in any company that runs on EOS. Are all about what makes you a unique place to work. And it's when you hire and fire and review and reward and recognize your people according to your core values that builds that culture.

Yeah. My favorite core value that a family business had was that they are seriously silly. That was one of their core values. And it was absolutely true. They were very good at the work they do. And they took it very serious seriously, but they're also completely hilarious goofballs. and that came directly out of the founder of that family business.

There was a third generation or a second generation getting ready to run it. And that came directly out of the personality of the founder of that. And that's one of the things that I think is really amazing when family businesses use EOS is that core values conversation. Isn't some sort of weird.

Corporate culture, yucky thing it's looking at, who are we? Who have we always been? Who will we always be? And that [00:13:00] almost always points back to a founder and the kind of people that dug in to help found that business and the kind of values that person has passed down through generations. That's really fun.

Keerstyn: [00:13:13] That is fun and it's different and it makes it. Not as awkward or uncomfortable. I know that can be a really hard conversation in a long conversation. I remember hearing a story about a man who he went and said, I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this big core value book that was two inches thick and they never opened it once.

But getting away from that and actually having specifics that are not just. X, Y it's bigger than that.

Sara: [00:13:44] So way bigger than that. And it's a, it's also about who have you always been? Who will you always be? but it's also not about picking core values that are stating who you wish you were or who you accidentally are.

and it's not about saying [00:14:00] core values. I hope if a family business in particular has been in business for 80 years, they probably are trustworthy. They probably do have integrity. they probably do take good care of their clients or customers, but we don't want those kinds of core values. We want the core values that specifically say, what is integrity in your business?

Is it, you do the right thing. Is it, you do what you say you'll do. is it that you're so honest, you're willing to lose a client over it, right? That's the kind of stuff that we want to be your core values and then it resonates with employees and it also is incredibly valuable for recruiting, right?

Cause if you say these are our five core values, they'll be at a. now, at a party in the, driving at a gathering in the driveway, and they'll know when they see it person who fits and who would make sense to say, come over here and work with

Keerstyn: [00:14:51] us. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So another question I had is how do you implement EOS when there's a transition from [00:15:00] generation to generation?

What does that look like? Obviously, an EOS, they talk a bit about seats and what the right seat, where the person fits and all that jazz. And I know that you mentioned a little bit, but what if that transition is. Transition is happening in the midst of EOS. It's

Sara: [00:15:15] the perfect time, to have yoga in your business, if you're either in the middle of a transition or one coming soon, the reason I say that is when you have that accountability chart or org chart, it becomes really obvious who it is.

You need to replace the people who are transitioning out and it stops being things that are squishy, Oh, I'll think of one family business here. Instead of saying things like, Oh, they have to be like uncle George, which of course everybody knew what. Being like uncle George was, they actually wrote it down in four bullet points on the accountability chart and it was this, they needed to, create key relationships in the industry.

They needed [00:16:00] to see the future of the industry. That's what uncle George was great at. He could always see the future. He was great at the really big relationships. and three, he cared deeply about the culture of the business and he was all over that. get rid of it. That person, they don't fit with the culture, talking to people about when they should, it didn't fit.

and I'm sorry, I can't remember the fourth thing. But anyway, those were three of the four things that it be like uncle George. That's what it meant. So then they could go out and replace them, the person who was like uncle George, that in that case, that person did happen to be a family member.

But it's not always that, It's not always a family member who replaces them, but it's basically, I like to say EOS gives you your map for how to do that transition inside the

Keerstyn: [00:16:42] business. Yeah, absolutely. And likewise, I guess another question similar to that is what if a non family member is starting to head up the whole

EOS process and they aren't going with what the family really wants. What?

Sara: [00:16:59] Oh [00:17:00] gosh. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:17:00] I have a story about that or how you've accomplished that or. What you've done about that.

Sara: [00:17:09] You know what? I don't have the, an example from a family business. That was my client, but I can tell you about a family business.

I know of, they had a nonfamily president, who was he essentially doing a great job of delivering what the vision had been for the business, maybe a decade ago. Okay. the family business ownership had changed. It had changed from multiple. siblings owning the business to just one sibling owning the business.

And right around that time, they engaged in EOS implementer and started using EOS. And what happened then in that process is the direction of the business. Of course, for one, it became much more clear when it was one owner. Rather than five. So that happened. but [00:18:00] they got much more clear about what the vision is that wanted and what the core values really were.

And whereas before it looked like that president was serving the needs and the desires of the family quite well, it became very obvious once they had a clear vision, traction organizer, and a clear accountability chart that non-family member. Did not make sense. And that person was replaced actually fairly recently.

and it looks like the relationship between ownership and the people, the person running the business will be absolutely aligned now instead of two different roads.

Keerstyn: [00:18:32] Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a hard transition to make in stone. but especially hard when they're not aligned, but you're not quite sure where to go.

Absolutely.

Sara: [00:18:43] Yeah. Really helps. Cause you have to have that conversation of agreeing on this is where we're going and this is what we need to get.

What if they don't

Keerstyn: [00:18:51] the families that an agreement are not on the right path, but the owner is the

Sara: [00:18:57] nozzle for that river. [00:19:00] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. A situation where the family members are done the right paths, but the person running the business is on the right path.

Yeah. that is a supremely. That's the best question I've ever been asked.

That's awesome. that is a really important thing. There's a tool, in EOS that gets no airtime what's well, it doesn't get enough air time. In my opinion, it's called the partnership rules of the game. And what that tool talks about is the importance of the ownership team getting absolutely on the same page about what they want from the business.

It talks about some other things. Like you don't have the right to be employed at the business just because you're an owner and you have to earn your job and stuff. But that's one of the things that talks about is you have to be clear as an ownership group and what you want and what are your expectations.

And you have to be on the same page and you can't take it, your fights that you might be having as owners I'm into the business. and sadly that is a not uncommon thing for the owners [00:20:00] not to be on the same page. And it might be that they're. In complete disagreement and have conflict. what I see that's more as they just don't even have the conversation and they're not even sure what they want.

There's just so focused on the day to day that they're not thinking big picture about what they want as owners. And that can be very tricky if there's this a non-owner non-family member trying to run the business. In, potentially a really productive direction. And then the owners are over on the side, fighting about it, super tricky.

And that's where I think it's really valuable. Some companies use, they implement EOS on their own without bringing in someone from the outside and some are quite effective at it. But certainly if that's an issue, that's where you need that outside person, I would say to help you really have that tough call about where are we really going in this

Keerstyn: [00:20:46] business?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's where implementers come in a fantastic way, our third party, but it doesn't happen necessarily opinion about anything, but rather than

Sara: [00:20:58] exactly.

[00:21:00] Keerstyn: [00:20:59] Absolutely. That's. I'm glad that you said that a little bit more about the, the partnership rule, the game. I've never heard of that concept before AOS and I'd love to learn more about it.

Sara: [00:21:11] Yeah. So there is this awesome part, for any company running on EOS. Especially if they have an implementer and outside person like me, they'll have their leadership team manual and way in the back. So in that manual, all the, notes and stuff, where you take your notes in your sessions, but it also has the EOS toolbox in the back.

And there's 20 tools in that toolbox. There's also a few additional tools and that's where the partnership rules of the game live. I often, talk about the partnership rules of the game, I have a lot of friends who are fiscal priests, which is a long story in and of itself.

And I had one that was asked to come in and do an exorcism. Which was interesting. And that my friend went to the prayer book. So their version of a leadership team annual and under exorcism, it said, see your Bishop or something like that. And there's the separate [00:22:00] book that a Episcopal priest would use, This whole separate book that has the exorcism in it. I think of the partnership rules of the game as this tool over in the separate book where the exorcism would go, that's the whole point of my silly joke. That was long, but anyway, it's like the exorcism.

So it's way in the back. It's one of the additional tools and it just sets the, The rules of engagement, if you will, for owners. And it's all about getting clear on what you want, understanding that you can be fired, understanding that when you're not talking about ownership, but you're in the business.

That integrator is the one who breaks, ties the owner. Can't just come in and push people around and say, I'm the owner. No, it's the integrators running that business on behalf of the owner's needs.

Keerstyn: [00:22:43] Yeah. Interesting. That's cool. Yeah. I think that's something that we need to all know about an EOS, especially if you're implementing it and be able to say that for sure.

I think visionaries oftentimes have grandiose ideas [00:23:00] and integrators help reign those and especially in that. Yeah, absolutely. That's huge.

Sara: [00:23:06] Yes.

Keerstyn: [00:23:08] Cool. thank you for going through that. That was.

Sara: [00:23:11] Yeah, this is I am. I like to talk about the unsung heroes of the EOS toolbox, and that is absolutely at the top of my list and ensemble.

Keerstyn: [00:23:19] Is there another one that you feel are valuable that people might not realize exist

Sara: [00:23:25] or hush? Can I tell you two more,

Keerstyn: [00:23:29] please do

Sara: [00:23:30] unsung heroes of the EOS toolbox. One is called be personal issues, solving session. And it's technically not in the toolbox. What it is a part of what we teach around team health.

And whether you run on EOS or not, whether you're a family business or not, you've probably run into a situation where there's two people. We have so much conflict that they're making hard for everybody else to say what they think, and be truly vulnerable with each other. When you run into [00:24:00] that situation, you use the personal issue solving session.

And what it is let's say the two of us are the people having that conflict. We find a third party to come in and help facilitate the conversation. we both come prepared with what we see as the other person's top three strengths and top three weaknesses. And then we make a list of issues that we're having between each other.

Meat might be ways we, things we don't like about the other person or things we don't agree on. And then we solve those issues. create a set of action items and come back and check in 30 days, it's so valuable to really try to bring health to that relationship. Usually that's all that it takes.

And the two people can stop having toxic conflict every once in a while. One of those people needs to leave the business.

Keerstyn: [00:24:45] Yeah. Interesting. So it's valuable and productive and. Process driven, which is extremely sad.

Sara: [00:24:54] And I'm finding, during COVID-19 of course conflict is [00:25:00] high. and sometimes conflict that hasn't been addressed is coming to the top up and other times there's just brand new conflict and that tool is incredibly valuable in any time.

But particularly now. So that's an unsung hero. the other unsung hero is something we teach when we teach about ethics, which is lead manage and accountability. And it's just how to be a great boss. And a, this is part of being a great leader. We say that being a great boss, being a great leader and a great manager, and it's called the clarity break and it's literally.

All it takes to have a clarity break is a pen and a piece of paper and look out a window and just sit in quiet, put your phone away and let all those thoughts that are running out, running through your head all the time. Come out of that pen onto paper. I'm not easy to do. It's like stretching, you get up and I've heard if you get up and stretch for even like three minutes, it does has all this huge benefit, but it's free.

And it's not hard at all, but people don't do it. The clarity break is like that. It's a huge value and people often [00:26:00] don't take that time. I try to take about 20 minutes, four or five times a week. That's what works for me. Other people might take an hour or two. Other people, maybe every other week, you have to find your right cadence. But there's huge value in that as far as settling your mind and getting more clear, that tends to lead to you being much more confident and clear and direct as a leader. And that's what your team needs from you is for you to be confident and clear and direct.

Keerstyn: [00:26:27] Yeah, thank you for sharing those two. That was

Sara: [00:26:29] awesome.

Keerstyn: [00:26:31] I really liked the clarity break though. That's beneficial for everyone. I think not just leaders and bosses. Everyone. Everyone needs to get their mind. Not rolling. It's nice. The normal ways

Sara: [00:26:45] that we do sell. It's just so powerful it alone to put your phone in another room for 20 minutes or an hour.

Really powerful. Yeah.

Keerstyn: [00:26:54] Awesome. thank you so much, Sarah. This has been really fascinating to hear about us and then tools [00:27:00] within, and also some stories that people might be feeling. if they want to access you in any way. Where can they go to either find more about you, maybe contact you, to work with you potentially?

Sara: [00:27:11] Oh, sure. I would love to hear from anybody happy to have conversations and help anybody who's interested in helping their family business. probably the easiest way to get ahold of me is my website, which is family business. M N like Minnesota family business. M N LinkedIn. I'm Sarah B stern, S as in Sarah, Beth stern.

My name is a sentence and I think that's pretty funny. So you can find me there.

Keerstyn: [00:27:39] Awesome. Sounds good. thank you so much. Do you have any parting words before we, depart from here today?

Sara: [00:27:45] Yes, please take a clarity break. You will not regret it. Please. Please take a clarity break and thanks for that.

No

Keerstyn: [00:27:52] problem. Thanks for coming on.

View Details

Brains are wired to move away from threat and toward reward (but you probably already knew that). Minor 'failing' can be considered a threat and our avoidance often times stunts growth within an organization. From not wanting to start a new project to being okay with processes that don't work, it can be a challenge to get over the barrier to potentially fail. As leaders within our organization, a way that we can create psychological safety is allowing failure within our employees work. Jill Windelspecht joins us on the podcast this week to talk about what it looks like to fail, why it is important to fail, and how we can continue to promote failing to learn within our workplaces.

Find Jill on:
Linkedin
Her website
Her email: jill@talentspecialists.net
Her podcast

View Details

Right now, we as leaders need to be self aware and transparent with our employees. Our people want to see that we are human too and that we aren't perfect but rather learning to become better. Jaime Taets, from Keystone International, joins us on the podcast this week to talk about why we need to show our people that we have emotions and that we can empathize with them not only professionally but also personally.

Find Jaime on:
Linkedin
Her Website
Her Resources

View Details

Having everyone in the organization on the same page can be challenging, especially when change has happened recently. Whether you are trying to initiate change that will shift your organization and team culture or implementing small actionable goals that will help promote growth, it can be hard to know exactly what to do to make sure everyone is on the same page. Dave Feidner joins us on the podcast to talk about how to make sure your team is on the same page to promote healthy and sustainable growth within your organization.

Find Dave on:
His phone: (248)881-9103
Linkedin
Email: dfeidner@crestonesummits.com
His website

View Details

It can be hard to evaluate what to do with your organization when it feels like things might be headed in the wrong direction. You might feel like you are in over your head shambling to duck taping the issues back into place and not continuing your growth. This week on the podcast we have Jason McCullough on to talk about his experience running an organization when it felt like things were falling apart, how they worked towards solving their issues using EOS and how he now helps his clients using EOS. Not only does he share real life examples of what it looked like to run the business, but helps us understand why they were struggling.

Find Jason on:
Linkedin
His Website
His Newsletter

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Leadership tools can be overwhelming. There are so many to choose from yet it can be hard to pick the right ones for the right situation and right personalities. Chris McClure joined us on the podcast recently to talk about tools to use as a leader, which ones to pick, and when to use these tools. He not only goes into depth on what tools would be best for certain situations but who should use what tools!

Find Chris on:
Linkedin
His Website
His Blog

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Sometimes it can be challenging to continue to move your company forward when the leadership team struggles to find a clear direction. This week on the podcast we specifically talk about the role of the entrepreneur (otherwise known as the visionary) and the process person (the integrator), and how each can work together to not only create great ideas but to also create great companies in the process. Doug Andersen walks through each role and how you can support one another whether you are in the integrator or the visionary.

Find Doug at:
His website!
His email: doug@vthadvisors.com
His integrator group
Linkedin

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

It can be hard to be realistic about how your company or team is doing. Often, we are incredibly optimistic about where we stand, which can be detrimental to our culture, growth, and success. Ryan Henry joins us on the podcast to talk about how he realized his companies culture wasn't doing great, how he discovered what was going wrong, how he made the transformative step to change his companies culture with EOS, and how he continues to do this in other organizations as an EOS implementer.

Find Ryan on:
Linkedin
Call: 517-896-2552
Ryan@griptraction.com
Website

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Being an intentional with growth and change, both personally and professionally, can be a hard step to take, but when it comes to intentionally changing your team and company culture it is an important step to take. Scott Abbott joined us recently to discuss what it looks like to always be moving forward to not only have the intention to continue to thrive as organizations but strive for excellence as we grow.

Find Scott on:
Linkedin
His Website
Instagram

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Toby Goldstein joins us on the podcast this week to talk about soft skills. Not only does she believe that they are the most important part of an organization, but she also believes that they can drastically improve your personal and professional life, your organization, and the way that work is done around you.

If you want to learn more about Toby, find her on:

Linkedin
Her Website
Email her at: toby@bitesizeworkshops.net

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

The 7 attributes of agile growth are important, but if we miss one (especially people) we loose the potential we could have. We need to be able to recognize where the cycle is struggling so that we can continue to make great teams and organizations Patrick Frazier, executive coach at Coaching authority joins us to discuss why people matter and the ways that we can improve our business.

As Patrick goes into more depth about how he helps people, consider reaching out to him here:
Linkedin
His website
Text him- MeetCoach to 31996

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Ted Riter walks us through the challenge of change. He helps us understand transparency between employees and managers and how we can continue to cultivate great work through these changes. As COVID-19 continue to bring change, Ted helps us to think about how to prepare and help prepare our people.

Find Ted at:
Linkedin
His website!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Brian Montes joins us on the podcast to discuss what reviews look like, whether it is your annual review, quarterly review, or weekly review, they all have a time and place that should occur.

Brian walks us through what these all look like and how you can use reviews to have a successful team and culture. He also goes into depth about how to measure the success of these reviews, to know that you are not only benefiting yourself but transforming your team with numbers to prove.

Find Brian on:
Linkedin
His Website!
Email him at: brianm@scaleocityworks.com

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Trudy Bourgeois joined us on the podcast to discuss what she has gone through in the corporate world, what she has learned about herself through this, and how she is helping those around her find their true colors.

Find Trudy at:

Trudy's book
Her Linkedin
Her website

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Shahnaz Broucek joined us on the podcast to discuss what people problems look like. From going into a deep dive into people problems to helping us understand some solutions, she hits it all. As she tells some of her personal stories, I hope you find some insights on how to play to our strengths.

Find Shahnaz on:
Linkedin
OptimizeU Website
sbroucek@optimizeu.com

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Jamon Bailey joins us on the podcast to talk about energy. Energy can make us feel and think a certain way, but if we understand how this effects us in work and life we are able to act appropriately in certain situations. Through understanding the types of energy, we are able to get back to  conscience mind and understand how different events might effect us.

Find Jamon on:
Linkedin
His Website!
Instagram
Twitter

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

The SparkTech team joins us on the podcast to discuss how they coach their team! As a business owner, James Woods discusses how he helps his team through listening and feedback to better both the client experience and the employee experience. James and Emily tell stories of how they have learned to be listening coaches in their organization.

Find SparkTech on:
Linkedin
Their Website
James's Linkedin

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Cristina Flores, CEO and Business Coach at Creative Solutions Coaching LLC, joined us on Managing the Way to discuss how she helps leaders get to be a leader focused on their people. Through hiring process, understanding their people, and giving practical advise; she is able to help encourage and grow managers to become better.

Find Cristina on Linkedin to learn more about her!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Deborah Goldstein joins us on the podcast to discuss how our brains work when it comes to our limiting beliefs. She discusses what our limiting beliefs look like and how we can reach for the our goals with confidence. This allows us to have better communication between both our managers and employees as well as having a mindset of growth. She uncovers what two chemicals, cortisol and oxytocin, works in our brains and how we can leverage both to be better leaders.

Find Deborah on:
Linkedin
Her website
Her email: deb@drivenpros.com

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Mary McCarthy Dwyer joins us on the podcast to discuss what she loves: Influence. She runs through the 10 influencer styles and how you might be able to approach situations differently and more effectively with each one. Whether you are using one or a few, Mary dives deep so that we can be intentional about our response to different situations we may face each day.

Find Mary on:
Linkedin
Executive Core's Website

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Barbara Singer joins us on the podcast to discuss her story and how she is constantly learning to evolve in her feedback as well as how she is transforming organizations in their feedback loops. She is passionate about performance feedback as well as redefining what this feedback looks like in businesses moving forward. It was a delight to talk to Barbara during this time.

If you would like to learn more about Barbara, check out the links below to get connected!
Linkedin
Executive Core Website

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

This week we are introducing Vicki Lauter, owner of Strategic Human Insights, to talk about leaders being excellent at leadership. She discusses real life examples that has influenced her work. She also goes through the stages of employment that can influence leaders.

Find Vicki on:
Linkedin
Her website

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Mary Rapaport joins us on the podcast to talk about change. Change can be scary. It often comes with unknowns that we would rather not face. Mary helps us see the 10 ways of change to help our better our understanding of how to tackle change.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

This week we have guest Marissa Levin, author and co-founder of Successful Culture International, to talk about why intentionally building your board of directors and culture needs to be number one on your plate. She discusses about why everyone has a culture, but how to intentionally build a culture promoting success.

Find Marissa on:
Her Website!
Linkedin
Her Podcast!
Her Book: Built to Scale

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Erica Medina Stanulis joins us this week to discuss why nature and work place culture go hand in hand. A unique perspective on the matter, Erica brings a holistic approach to managing people and managing yourself. She tells stories of how she got into her work and how she has transformed her life to transform other's lives.

Find Erica at:

Follow the Sun Website
Linkedin
erica@followthesunflow.com

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

They don't know how to communicate. This can be hard, but it also can be changed. Michele Brown joined us on the podcast recently to discuss a bit more about how she helps her clients communicate and grow through her coaching practice. During the recording she shares stories and lessons that she has found to be some of the greatest challenges but also the greatest rewards in her time as president of IntuAction Coaching.

Find Michele on:
Linkedin
Their Website!
Instagram
Facebook

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Greg and Abbey from AG Collaborative join Mike on the podcast to discuss how their clients have been touched by their work. From understanding the shifts in leadership to understanding how todays tools can effect teams for the better.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

August Turak joins us on the podcast cast to talk about why personal development should be number one on your list for goals for your life. He tells the story of his life and gives us insights as to why we need to continue to develop ourselves to become successful.

Find August at:
His Website!
On Forbes!
Some of his books:
Business Secrets of the Trappist Monks
Brother John

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Greg Clowminzer, Business Coach and Owner of Professional Business Coach and Life Coaching, lets us in on how we need to take a step back from habits and look at who we are to get to the root of issues we face with our employees, friends, loved ones, and strangers.

Take a look at some resources that Greg mentioned:
Linkedin
Give him a call: (760) 930-9604
His website
Books: Invisible Power, Instant Motivation

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Danette High, Leadership Coach at LeadsQ Consulting, goes deep into how one-on-ones and leading out loud. Check out why being intentional in your conversations is key to your success.

Find Danette on:
Linkedin
LeadersQ website

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Sara Canaday, Leadership Keynote Speaker at Sara Canaday & Associates, discusses how often we are a walking to do list. She addresses how we can change this and what steps we need to take to be action driven but reflective.

Find Sara and some resources she offers on:
Linkedin
Her Website
Her free resources

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Jen Dalton, Founder and CEO of BrandMirror, discusses what she personal branding does to change the dynamic and culture of your team. She goes in depth about how understanding who you are and what you're good at can set you up for success in the future.

You can find Jen and her resources on:
Linkedin
BrandMirror Website
Free Resources

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Erica Ballard, Healthy Living Expert and Coach at Erica Ballard Health, gives us some insight of why what you eat is holding you back both at work and home!

Take a look at some of Erica's resources to learn more about her:

Erica's Website
Erica's Linkedin
Erica's real food PDF

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

This week on the podcast we have Bill Schmidt, the CEO of B&B Enterprises. His career started when he opened up a pizza shop in northern Michigan. Through his experiences here, he has been able to change his life and mindset for the better. He believes that everyone should try to live a better life, and gives some insights on how to do this.

Where you can get connected with Bill:
Linkedin
Twitter
Instagram
Email: billschmidt73@gmail.com

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

This week on the podcast we have Jay Hawreluk, CEO and executive consultant at AcuMax Index, to talk about why we need to understand how are people work so that we can coach them in the more efficiently! Jay has created a quick simple test that allows you to understand how you and others work, so that you understand why people act the way they do and how to approach them when conversations need to happen.

Take a look at:

Jay's Linkedin
AcuMax Index
AcuMax free complimentary test!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Dr. Jay Raines, President of Leaders Q, helps us realize what culture is, how to build culture, and provide us with mindset changing questions! One question is: are you emotionally connected to behavior you want to celebrate?

Check out Dr. Jay:
Book a time to talk to Dr. Jay
Website
Linkedin
Instagram

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Regan Walsh, Executive Coach at Regan Walsh, LLC, gives us insights on what people deal with every day: perfection and self doubt. She offers insightful items that can allow us to release our idea of perfection and self, and trust ourselves and others to simply get the task done well. 

See more about what Regan does here:
Linkedin
Website
Free Resources!
Email: regan@reganwalsh.com
Facebook
Instagram

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Dan Coughlin joins us on Managing the way to talk about his career journey in executive coaching as well as the core principles that he believes is key to changing the mindset of his clients. Through his experiences of being in multiple roles of coaching, he is able to provide key insights about how to manage and prioritize your life for the better.

Check out more or contact Dan at:

Email: dan@thecoughlincompany.com
Linkedin

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Karie Miller, an executive coach in Toronto, joins us on the Managing the Way podcast to inform us about what overwhelmed people tend to do, and ways that she helps them over come this!

She discusses the 2 questions she asks leaders struggling to find solid ground, the ways that she helps them through changing their habits and lifestyles, and making sure that ROI is mutually happening!

Check out Karie's:

• Linkedin
• Email: karie@kariemiller.ca
• Website
• Quiz!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Denise Van Eck, speaker at Route Talks, discusses challenges or choices and the way that our brains take these in when it comes to work.  She shows us a frame work that helps us learn where our brains stand on how we work.

Check out more at Waypoint.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Panelists join us at Route Talks to talk about what they think about leadership, organizations, and teams. Matt Jung, Mike Harris, Dr. Brian Cawley, Denise Van Eck, and Beth Kelly join us to help inspire and let us in on how grow their teams through leadership.

Check out more at Waypoint.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Mike Harris joins us at Route Talks, discussing how he has grown as an entrepreneur. From failures to regrets, he helps us learn that we some times just need to do instead of being held up by our ideas and vision.

Check out the video version at Waypoint!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Dr. Brian Cawley and Mike Harris join us on a panel at Route Talks, discussing how managing people may seem fluffy but is valuable for holding a sustainable business.

Check out the video version at Waypoint!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Matt Jung, speaker at Route Talks, discusses how core values have always formed their company. From being a start up, to a growing company, to now a mature business. Check out the video version at Waypoint!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Denise Van Eck, speaker at Route Talks, shows us how pickles and work place culture have a strange similarity. What kind of pickle does your company represent? Check out the video version of this talk at Waypoint!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Dr. Brian Cawley, a speaker at Route Talks, discusses why we need to start creating safe spaces in the work place. With out changes being made, we will continue to sit at 17% engagement in the workplace. Check out how you can start changing your workplace and your people for the better. Check out the video version of this speech at Waypoint!

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Content summarized from the podcast:

-Mike started Work Cited right out of college, bringing together his friends to work for him, which started in his parents basement.

-They have learned they have gone through different stages over the course of hiring people

-"Culture and the people that have worked for us have allowed us to bridge gaps that other companies fall into. When you have the right people and you have the right culture, you can push to 125 percent and step over a gap. While you might not have all the systems and processes, you can get over it, and you can figure it out and make it better and faster, more efficient, as you move forward. We had trust.

-"It was right around 10 people, when we started to realize that, okay, we have to start doing something a little bit different. We can't just grow organically. We're going to bring in some new customers through small acquisition and see where that takes us, et cetera, et cetera. So I'd say it was right around 10, when all of a sudden you don't have the trust. All of a sudden now, you've left a company you've work at for however many years. Now you're going to work for Worksighted, and a bunch of young punks, you know? What do they know about what they're doing? We just didn't have the trust, and so that changed the dynamic, definitely, for the first time."

-"I think it's a humbling experience, when you realize that you've lived in this little microcosm. That's all you know, and so you think everything is great. You bring in people from outside, and all of a sudden you realize ... Like when somebody else shows up on the island, it's like, "Maybe I don't know everything." There was just a huge learning experience that happened at that time."

-If you're going to extend trust to these people to be on your team, then you need to take their input. You need to potentially adapt and change and realize you don't know it all. I definitely thought I knew it all. I'm not going to say I haven't fallen into that trap multiple times, and maybe that's just an entrepreneur trait. "I got this."

-We began to realize, as the years went by and we got bigger and bigger, that you need to coach people. You need to develop people. You need to work with people. Kind of to your point, we really had no process and structure around that. You have this, "Well, don't you just know how to do it?" That's the ultimate trap of the entrepreneur, is that you figure things out. You think that everyone else is going to operate that same way, or that they can do it as fast as you can. The growth and development of people through osmosis, that's like stage one in how companies train and develop people. Susie knows how to do that stuff because she worked alongside Sally for X number of years, and they got trained through osmosis. But that's not very process-driven. That's not very scalable.

-In manufacturing environments, I get asked all the time, "What can manufacturers do? I'm in manufacturing, and I'm fighting for quarters per hour to get employees and things like that." I say, "Build a brand. I don't care what you do. Build a brand, a really strong brand for your company that has a really clear message." I always use the phrase "let them wear the T-shirts." Young workers want to work for a brand that aligns, that says something to the world about who they are.

-[Work Cited Values]: I'm most comfortable dressed as a super hero. I'm a unique piece to the puzzle. I'm focused on today, but I dream about tomorrow. And I scoop my dog's poop. These values, they're values, but they're behaviors. They're things that can get me out of bed in the morning. They're the things that all of our employees exhibit, that help us understand whether or not you're a fit. But we just said it in everyday language. If you look at our values, they're followed up by statements that help with here's what we mean by this. Not just be ethical. Okay, that doesn't really filter anyone out of the dataset. But when you say things like you have to be someone who scoops your dog's poop, it's all about self-responsibility, but also responsibility for other piles of junk that you might find that might not be yours, right?

-We expect our managers to spend time with all their direct reports. They need to have one-on-ones, and they need to do it at a cadence that makes sense. Most weekly touchpoints, but at least biweekly. They have to have a cadence. They have to be communicating regularly.

-The younger workforce, they want to be coached. They want that one on one, personal interaction. They want the personal investment, the investment of time, to help them understand what's the vision

-The executive team, we have our scorecards we look at. It's just red, yellow, green. If it's green, we don't talk about it. If it's red or yellow, then we need to look at that. So that's where we start to see, do we have managers who aren't doing one-on-ones, or aren't spending time with employees? That stuff is super, super critical.

-These Managers need a toolbox in order to manager well.

-If you only talk to somebody once a year and they get off the rails, that's kind of stupid. We for a long time did the same thing. They get off the rails. They don't know it, and you need to bring them back. If you're touching base all the time, not only do you know the things they're working on, the things they're struggling with, and where they need help, and what their objectives are, and you know how to support them, but you're able to address things right away and talk about them right away. It equals a lot less problems.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Content is summarized from the podcast:

-From an early age, Matt always knew he wanted to be an entrepreneur. His dad is an entrepreneur. He ran radio stations, then bought a radio station that ended up not working out for him. But Matt always saw this passion around him.

-Received an accounting degree from Hope College

-He started selling product out of a car at Michigan State University. He was hoping to get into Meijer, a midwest  superstore, but was turned down several times.

-That product [bean bags] ended up turning into the number one selling product at Meijer, which is just awesome.

-Everything was working with the business, but they weren't making a lot of money. But they were able to invest everything back into the business and the business was growing. At that time, they saw this competitor  that was opening up stores in malls. So they did it. "Well, we know this industry better. We know the furniture landscape. We know housewares. We know all these things. Why don't we have our own concept?" Up to that point in time, everything is working. Why wouldn't a retail store work? So, they go gangbusters man. Because why would you just start with one when you can open three? So, they opened three stores.

-What ended up eventually happening was that they were focusing all of their time and effort and funds trying to build up these stores, but lost sight of the core. What happened was one day the bank came to Matt's business partner, George Julius and said, "George, we're thinking about calling the loan unless you sign on it." And he's like, "Well, I'm not going to sign on it." We got ourselves into this mess, we'll get ourselves out of it. Luckily, with time, they were able to convince them, "all right, don't shut us down." They know these stores are losing money. They know how to run this core business. So, They shut down the stores and refocused on the core business, so it was the first time they had ever really we lost money.

-They needed to create a vision statement, mission statement, core values, and start identifying these things. And so, they did what most companies do: have a small core group of leadership team at that time and round table it.

-They created a strategy of 140 pages, but what good was that? If you don't open it up after you create it will it really change culture?

-If you were to look at their one page strategic plan from 2012 to 2019, the one common thing there is simplicity. How can they make it simpler so they can communicate to everybody, not only theirselves but the rest of their team.

-Expect the best, screw the rest

-Comfort Research asked: How can someone submit an idea on how they are going to find a better way to do something?  And how do we make sure that we're not the suggestion box company, that we're not just that company with a little wooden box somewhere in the plant with the little slot on top and someone has the guts to come by and just dropped a suggestion in there? Nothing's ever done with it. It's simple: The Fab award. They will support them with time and money and other resources for the employee to make it happen. It's a $2,500 award. You get half up front because you won. The other half comes when you try to implement, and we're not talking about successful implementation, just how are you trying to find a better way. Did you try something? If it failed, fine. You tried!

-They focus on the three core values, every quarter we're able to go through all three of them and award an employee each month who shows this value.

-To be able to celebrate people like that, that warms my heart in a really big way.

-Culture and core values needs to start at the top.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Content is summarized from the interview:

-Professor at Calvin University

-PhD in Industrial-Organizational Psychology from the University of Akron

-Co-founder and partner of Talent Asset Advisors

-Feedback hasn't changed for a long time. This is really true of a lot of things in management. A lot of what is done today in organizations has been done the same way for 50, 70 even 100 years in some cases. This notion of this annual performance evaluation, performance review, is one of those.

-A big changes that's happened in that is decoupling of the evaluation part, the rating part of performance, and then the feedback part, which is intended to be much more development and future-looking.

• Annual meetings are created to give a numerical rating, but at some point the employee goes into a flight, fight, or freeze mode, and cannot retain any information after that.

• There's some sort of evaluative component that needs to happen, and I'm a pretty big believer about candidness, creating a culture ... If you're going to have trust and have candid conversations that an employee always knows where they stand.

-The estimate right now is about 30% of the Fortune 500 have eliminated their rating process, and that's been over about the last five years that that's happened, so it's a pretty big increase, that's a pretty big trend.

-Rank and yank was the term, and very transparent. I mean, the idea was this candidness, let's you know exactly where you stand, and if you're in the top 20% GE's going to do everything to make your employee experience great, give you the opportunities because we really want to invest in you and we don't want to lose you. The middle 70% would be those employees that are doing their job, they're contributing, they're doing what we're asking them to do to and they're fine as well. And then that bottom 10% would be employees that re not contributing the way they need to the organization, and they'd be give a year notice saying, "You got to get out of that bottom 10% or you're not going to be around next year." It worked for GE for 20 years. GE became extremely successful under that, but what happened is a lot of those managers did great work and they went off. A lot of them became CEOs of other large corporations and they said, "We're going to do things the way we did things back at GE," and tried to impose it on their organizations. And one thing we know about management is best practices is kind of a misnomer. There aren't these things that we can really take from one organization, put it in another organization and expect it to work, because it depends. It depends on the strategy, the culture, the values, all sorts of things. Time and time again this rank and yank system that got implement at dozens of the largest organizations failed, failed miserably. Stirred the pot in terms of people's dissatisfaction with performance evaluation and feedback.

-We've tried for a really long time to train managers to be better feedback providers. There's almost no evidence that it works.

-The feedback sandwich...doesn't work. People are waiting and asking, "What's that critical middle piece that I'm waiting for?" And then again, as soon as they kind of hear it they disconnect and, "I don't really remember what was said at the first, and I didn't even hear what was said at the end, and I don't really know how to improve because I'm just upset about what you said about how poorly i'm doing."

-If we're equipping them to be better feedback seekers and receivers, there's an idea that they're controlling their work life a little bit more, which would create higher levels of autonomy as well.

-Look at the things that a manager does, it's around control, it's around delegation, it's around evaluating and being a judge, when we're saying really what we need them to be is better listeners, understand things and coach more.

-Most organizations think they do have an engaged workforce, and most organizations actually don't have an engaged workforce.

-Employee engagement is a leading indicator of a lot of bad things, of a lot of lagging indicators. Things like reduced revenue, reduced profitability, higher turnover, all lagging indicators. It's already happened. Employee engagement is one of the best leading indicators for us to get on top of it before those bad things happen.

-The only common factors around effective leadership is humility.

-For you to see great increases in the employee experience and employee engagement it's going to have to be trust and psychological safety becomes more and more part of the culture.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.

View Details

Welcome to episode one of Managing the Way! Today we talk to Denise VanEck, owner of Thought Design, about helping teams achieve mental shifts that create lasting change in culture. Denise goes through a wide range of ideas, but all focus on the idea of being safe at the workplace and being able to think outside of the box without being hurt by that.

Content is summarized from the interview:

-Last 35 or plus years of Denise's career has always involved learning, training, workshop, design, coaching. But at the end of the day, it's always been about learning.

‍
- Was Chief Learning Officer for a big financial services company.

‍
-Six years ago, around the time I was turning 50, she decided that she wanted to create a space for people to learn and to learn how to learn

‍
-She works with large teams within organizations. They may start with an executive team and then add layers and layers of people down through the organization, until they are able to achieve some shifts and culture and practices throughout the whole organization. They also work with smaller startup companies and even sometimes some solopreneurs that are part of public programs. Anyone can show up and and learn in community kind of experiences.

‍
-It turns out that when a team finds themselves in the kitchen and creating a dish together, working together, whatever they're doing, there isn't really anything that they do back at work as a team that they can't replicate in the kitchen. They solve problems, they make decisions, they collaborate, they help, they support, they challenge, they give feedback. All the things that we do as part of our work can be replicated in an hour and a half, creating a dish together.

‍
-What Denise is noticing is that for many teams, things that used to work aren't working so well anymore. The world is getting more complex. Work is getting more complex, and teams are struggling. And it isn't necessarily that they're struggling because they're not competent, they're not smart, they're not good at what they do, or they don't like each other. Often, they're struggling because they don't have the tools to keep up with the complexity or the changes that they're facing and how work is getting done.

‍
-The majority of what people do is actually habit, including our thoughts. And if we think the same way we did yesterday, we're going to act the same way we did yesterday. At Thought Design, they create these really unique experiences to help people kind of zoom back out and go, "Oh." And then the design part is they get to redesign new ways of thinking, new ways of acting, new ways of working. And even understanding their work.

‍
-One of the things that our brains are paying the most attention to is certainty. And our brains are working every second of every day to assess how much certainty we have about our experience and how much we need. And so for all of us when we don't have the amount of certainty that we need, our brain takes us into a threat state, and it starts executing all this stuff to help take care of ourself and defend ourself. So what we are experiencing is this urgency. "I need a plan, I need more certainty." And when that happens, maybe some of the bad behaviors start to come out, right? So this is where the brain science can kind of be useful because when we know that, we can actually asses a situation and we can actually dampen some of that response by basically saying, "This is a moment in which this is what I'm certain about and this is what I'm not certain about." And ironically, naming the thing you're not certain about gives you some certainty.

‍
-Psychological safety is knowing that I can bring my voice, I can disagree, I can offer my ideas, I can really be myself. I can take risks, I can fail all of those things in there. I am not going to be hurt; that I can do that, that this is a place where that can be done. We do that for each other. So trust and psychological safety aren't exactly the same thing, but they're all meshed up together. You can't have psychological safety without trust and vice versa.

Managing the Way is sponsored by Waypoint HQ. Waypoint is a breath of fresh air. A solution that enables you to be the manager that people want to work for. It helps you in holding regular, focused, intentional employee one-on-ones that will result in valuable feedback and a forum for coaching your team.