Matt Drance of Apple Outsider and Bookhouse talks with Guy and Rene about working at and with Apple, the unsung heroes of software,the difference between marketing and developer-driven management, how to get started, and twiddling the PS4 bits.

Show notes * Apple Outsider * Bookhouse Software * iOS Recipes: Tips and Tricks for Awesome iPhone and iPad Apps * Khan Academy * Stanford iOS courses on iTunes U

Guests * Matt Drance (@drance) of Apple Outsider and Bookhouse Software

Hosts * Guy English (@gte) of Kicking Bear * Rene Ritchie (@reneritchie) of iMore.com

Feedback Yell at us via the Twitter accounts above (or the same names on ADN). Loudly.