Mel C: They would always put my clinical skills in the morning cuz that's when I perform better. So I work with the and I say, Look, this is my problem. This is when I focus best. I struggle to learn at the best of times, but I am very capable as you know. Can you please do this to maximize my learning? If you give me this clinical skills class, that is really important for my learning.

If you put me in the afternoon, I'm just gonna sit there and be a good, go and be quiet. But I'm not gonna take anything in.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Hello? Hello. Welcome to Beyond ADHD, a Physician's Perspective. I am Dr. Deanna Mecado Mage. I'm a family medicine physician practicing in rural Texas. I used to be hindered by my adhd, but I now see it as a gift that helps me show up as the person I was always meant to be, both in my work and in my personal life in the past.

Two years, I've come to realize that unlearning some of my beliefs and some of my habits, I'm excited to share all these skills.

Well, hello. Hello. I am so excited today to have a very cool guest on our podcast and uh, her name is Melissa Carlin and she is from first Australia. She's actually a third year medical student, so it's so cool for us to correlate our time zone differences. Likely she figured it out for me. That's not my sort of genius.

I would show up at the wrong time , but I am so happy that she's here and I'm gonna let her tell us a little bit about herself and, uh, how we met. Mel C: Hi Diana. Thanks so much for having me on here. This is really interesting. It's really cool. Um, yeah, so where did we meet? We met, I made a, a Facebook group, um, for doctors and medical students with adhd.

Um, and we met on there. Um, I noticed you'd post some, uh, A couple of posts that were quite interesting about some courses and things that you do. Um, and then you, you got in touch with me and that was really cool. So, um, yeah, so I made that group just, uh, I noticed there was a lot of, uh, medical students and doctors with adhd, but they don't tell anybody about it.

They, same with their depression and anxiety. They keep it a big secret. Especially, I don't know what it's like anywhere else in the world, but especially here in Australia, uh, there's still a lot of stigma.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yes. You know, that's so important that you created a safe. Place for people to come and join in a community that like-minded people could correlate and relate with each other because like you said, unfortunately there's still a lot of stigma and this is why I do this podcast and this is why now I'm like talking to anybody who would hear me about like changing the way that ADHD is perceived cause like we forget that.

What we're thinking really influences how we show up in, in the world, right? Like, if we're thinking this is the worst thing ever, or we're thinking, Oh, this is fascinating, I wonder like what, what it could help me in or whatever, right? Like it could just make a difference on how you then show up. Um, you know, in 2016, they.

Did a research or they did like a survey of medical students and they asked them, in the us they asked them like, how many had di uh, diagnosis of adhd and like, interestingly enough, like one third of the class had it. Yeah. So like, and, and so I'm pretty sure it's. Under, like reported and under. Absolutely.

And probably likely undertreated, you know, And so

Mel C: we've done this thing in Australia, so wa I think worldwide, uh, at Perth where I am for some reason, it's got the highest rate of a ADHD diagnosis and treatment, highest rate of Dexamphetamine prescription and. I literally saw a post on Facebook yesterday saying that it had risen by 20,000 prescriptions this year, uh, since five years ago.

But they always report it as a bad thing. Yeah. And they always report it, and then you'll see in the comments like, Oh, it's over prescribed all these addicts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Nobody's reporting how much the cholesterol prescriptions have gone up this year. Why do you care about add, Why do you need to post that?

And, and, and, um, rev everybody up in the public who has no idea. But yeah, back, back to what I was saying before, um, Uh, when I started med school. So I've had it since childhood and uh, always got my accommodations and I sat my first exam in first year medical school in, uh, the special accommodations room where I have my isolated exams cuz I'm well aware of my accommodations.

So I sat there, there was one other student, I don't know if they had add. Um, but yeah, so I was there on my own and, and then, That was his first semester. And then at the very end of the year when we sat the last lot of exams, all of a sudden there was 10 extra people there. They all, um, all had d ADHD all their life.

And they finally, I think med school finally had very successful people. They managed to get through their degrees and everything. Med school seems to unmask it and it's, it's impossible for them to. The demand, you know what it's like, The demand is a lot higher. It's a lot different. Uh, you've gotta recall a lot of information.

You've gotta be very, very, uh, uh, strict in your study rating. You can't just cram anymore. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, it unmasks a lot. But the sad thing is, and, and I have this battle with the kids in, I call them kids because I'm like the oldest one in the med school, um, , I'm their three, they're all in their early twenties.

Uh, the same thing with the depression. So many of them suffer. And you know, it comes with the intelligence. I'm a big. Believer that the adhd, the depression, the anxiety, whether you have one or the other, it comes with high intelligence. You can't be that smart and have your brain not be broken. . Yeah. You know, like that stress of being smart all your life and overthinking everything, it puts that cortisol up and I just think that serotonin regulation stuffs up and um, yeah, massive stigma.

A lot of students and a lot of doctors, they're scared that if they disclose. Um, that it's gonna impact them. I mean, you don't have to go around telling people, but uh, they're worried if they put it on paper that somehow ara our governing body will, uh, not give them a job. But, uh, a lot of people who I know who do, do disclose it cause it is illegal if you don't.

Um, I remember my mate, he's got bad depression. When he went and got his internship, they called him in. For his paperwork and they like did their physical medical exam or whatever, just to check that your health can fit before you start work or give them their jabs and they just said, Oh, you've got depression, are you medicated?

Yep. Cool. No worries. Have a nice life. Like they really didn't care. They just wanna make sure that you're medicated, that you've got it under control and they don't care. But there's this massive stigma and so many people struggle with it. So I made this group. I made this group mainly actually for people trying to get into.

So I've made a separate group now because half the people in that group on Facebook were, um, pre-medical students trying to get in. And so it took me 10 years, get school, 10 years. I sat out entrance exam 12 times, had three interviews. And the reason for that was purely because aa, the people who, um, who organized entrance exam, their external body, they refused to give me my extra.

For 10 years. So my fr this girl and I, we kept seeing each other every year at the special, the, the special people who sat the special under accommodations. We only got like five minutes extra. We kept seeing each other year after year, after year, after year. And about after 10 years we're like, we should really know each other's name by now.

And I went up to her and I'm like, We've gotta do something. She was really hesitant about it. Um, and. She gave me her number anyway, and I chatted to her. Eventually we got a, a lawyer to write a letter to remind them you need to give these people their accommodations. And by that time we had just given up.

We had just given up. We, we didn't even study that year. And uh, we finally got 50% extra time. So if it's an hour, we get an extra 30 minutes. Um, split the exam over two days cause it's an hour exam. So my medication wasn't gonna last that. And, uh, we, after spending 10 years on the 50th percentile, we both jumped up to the top 15%.

So I made this group to help people as well, who are just kicking a dead horse because I knew I was smart, I knew, you know, I'm not stupid if, if I'm never gonna be a singer, Diana, I can't sing. I would love to be, but it's never gonna happen for me. I'm not ignorant. I'm not gonna like try and achieve something that I can't achieve, but I had good marks.

I was smart. I know I was cut out for it. If you let me sit the GA set for as long as I could do it, I will always get the answers right. So it wasn't, you know, I stopped telling people after the third year that I was trying to get into medicine. I used to just lie and say, Oh yeah, I'm sticking with teaching.

You know, Um, I've given up. I've given up. Cause it was just, it was just heartbreaking every year, after year, after year. So, uh,

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: but that also speaks to the persistence of somebody with adhd. Like when you. Are aligned with what you feel is your calling, like nothing's gonna stop you, even though to the normal, I don't wanna say normal, because I'm all of a sudden we're calling us abnormal.

But to other people that don't have ADHD like they might have. Maybe they might have tried three times, four times and then they're like, Okay, this is not for me. That's right.

Mel C: They give up. They give up. Yeah. And it's very competitive. Even if you are a standard student, you don't have adhd. You these days, especially in Australia, it's so competitive.

You do have to sit it several times just to, cuz it expires every couple of years. So you have to renew it. Yeah. And it's just like a $500 exam. It's just a big extortion thing. Um, but you can't give up. But then unfortunately with the adhd, It's even harder. And a lot of people will fail it without the extra time, especially if they're not diagnosed.

Especially if they don't know how to write their letter to get their time and asa say the exam, people say, Sorry, we only give you five minutes. Too bad and so sad. Um, that's all we gonna give you. And people will say, Oh, okay. They don't realize, they can say, Actually no. Give me my time. I'm entitled to this.

And you're breaking the law if you don't. Right. Um, and they will give up and, and I appreciate you saying it shows my persistence and yes it does. But both my friend and I, we say to each other, we are the only two people in the world who understand each other. And we are the only two people in the world who will know what each other went through.

Because we both went through it together. We both went through it for 10 years. And it destroyed us. It really did destroy us. It really, it destroyed our families. It destroyed we. We both have genetic depression and anxiety anyway, but it definitely made it a lot worse. And, um, but,

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: but look about how you now get to tell the story, though.

Like you didn't give up

Mel C: on your memory. I get to help people. I've helped so many people get in, but you know, every now and then, like now that we're in medicine, it's been three years, Even the other day we messaged each other and we said, Thank God we don't have to sit that exam again. And we'll lament.

Lament on how much suffering we did go through. It really was the worst time of my life. Yeah. I spent thousands on courses, tutoring courses with my adhd. I need silence at home to study, so I was always yelling and arguing with my family. No speaking. No, we can't go out. No, you can't have visitors over because you interrupt my study.

I need every second to do well in this exam and I need every second to get a good GPA for this last uni unit I'm doing. And it. Destroyed our lives. And when we both got in, we actually, for the first six months, we both really were confused. We were both . No, it was really sad. We couldn't enjoy it. We couldn't enjoy it for, I've coped a lot better.

She doesn't mind me saying this. She knows who she is and she doesn't write me saying this. I've coped a lot better, but it was really much harder for her. Um, I sort of, Not more resilient, but uh, more accepting and I get on with it and she had a harder time with it as well. She was screwed over a little bit longer than me.

And, um, it was really hard because we suffered for so long and we were treated so badly for so long, and we fought for so long to prove, yes, I deserve this. Yes, I am good enough and you won't let me in for 10 years. In an unfair situation wasn't like, Just give up. You're too dumb. We knew we could do it, and we both get high distinctions in med school now, you know, and for the it, it caused a lot of damage, psychologically posttraumatic stress properly.

We couldn't enjoy it because it was such a fight for so long. And then we finally got in, it was like, I finally, that battle was finally over. You know, it really, it really took a toll that we weren't expecting. I cried for 30 minutes, not because I was excited. I got in and I recorded it too. Was meant stop crying.

It was meant for 30, 30 minutes over how tired I was.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. No, I mean that's so important that you're speaking about this cause the people that don't have a ADHD do not understand this part. Like they don't understand why you're so, they could probably label you a stubborn, why she's so stubborn. She should know better.

She could be go do X, Y, and Z. I'm pretty sure she could get. 10 times what she's gonna get as a doctor. Why is she going doing to do that? Mel C: Right. And also, people dunno. You as well. People dunno. You like, like I said, I know I'm not gonna be a singer. I'm never gonna try and be one. Do you know? So when you are telling family and friends, people who know you're smart, but when you tell them, Oh, I failed the exam.

Oh well, not failed. Oh, I didn't get an interview. Are you gonna, I'm gonna try again. I'm gonna try. You sound like a loser. You sound like their mind. They're like, Oh, you should really, Are you trying to get into medicine? GE should really give up. Like what? You know, obviously you're not good.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Stop trying

Mel C: and was thinking.

In my Italian background, it's

couldn't't get in, didn't get in it. Justand, how much? Ha. Yeah.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: And I think that was so smart of you to stop telling people, like, sometimes we do have to keep our dreams to ourselves until we are already living it, because otherwise there's, we each have a little bit of a doubt in ourselves, even though we, we don't wanna say it, we have it like it's human brain to like, wanna keep you safe and not wanna make you feel like you're ridicule yourself or whatever.

Right? But, But when you have a little bit of doubt and then you have other people like amplify that

Mel C: doubt, like absolutely is not helpful and it makes you feel stupid. And then I had, best thing was that I had my friend with me and we were both doing it so we could both say it was happening to both of us.

The, the exam people were screwing over both of us, and we were both trying to get in and it was the system. But before I met, And I used to tell the same story over and over and it was just me. It just sound when it's just one person standing alone, it just sounds like you are the problem. So it's really great when you have someone going through the same thing so you can prove to other people, actually it's not just me.

I'm not a dumb loser who can't get in and I just don't know when to take a hin. Um, this is a proper problem. Yeah. So it was helpful, but I still stopped telling people cuz I just couldn't. I hated explaining myself. I hated explaining why I hadn't told any of my friends at that point in my life that I did have ADHD since I got into med school.

Now I tell everybody I don't care anymore because, you know, I just don't. Well, here's the

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: difference. I think like you are now speaking from a healed wound, like you're now are able to tell your story because

Mel C: you, you.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Are past the story in the sense that you're not reliving it every single day anymore, luckily, because you are now where you always were meant to be.

But like you said, it's the system that was preventing you from you, showing you so. So this is the paradox of the high achiever with adhd, that, like you said, you are smart, you know, but. The system does not allow you to show how smart you are because they don't give you the time for you to process what you need to.

Yeah. And then, and that's where. Had you understood that, okay, maybe I just needed a little bit extra time. Maybe I just needed a timing and maybe I just needed to speak out loud to somebody instead of just me reading this over and over so I can try to make sense of what it means. Right? Yeah. So that's where like if you don't understand that ADHD could be your superpower, because you're gonna be the one who's now thinking outside the box and able.

Um, share your journey. Then it, like you said, it looks like you're the only one with a problem. Cause everybody else isn't in that needed to be in and I'm not in, so it must be me.

Mel C: Right. And then, and then the other thing that annoys me is there's a few 80 HG people out there who did make it through the system and they sat it in the big room with everybody else understanding conditions and they managed to get in.

It's usually the engineers. Yeah. And you just like, God, it, you're making us look bad. Like Yeah. They manage, they just got that math brain and they managed to get in. But um, you know, but I have come from a different place. Like I'm very empowered now. Um, I remember in high school they used to, Oh, do we have to give you a separate room?

Oh, and they used to stick me in with everyone else. By the time everybody else left the room, my actual time was over. You know, and I never used to fight for it, but, you know, we we're, we are trying to fight at the moment to get an alternative entry pathway because over here we've got an alternative entry pathway for our indigenous Australians who have lower education, lower mortality.

There's a lot of disadvantage from, you know, their stolen generation and, and things like that. So we try and, Assist them to, you know, beat the barriers that they faced in their life. And people who live rurally get extra bonus points to their application. So what we're trying to do is have something similar like that for people with a learning disability.

Like three or four spots a year in the med cohort dedicated to those people who can bypass the exam. But you know, not just let anybody in. You still have to have a good GPA from your other degree. You still have to have good reference. You still have to do well in the interview. Um, I don't want a free pass for anybody If you've got a adhd, but you're stupid.

Too bad. Like I don't want you in bed, like you just, you're not getting a free pass. Like I'm, that standards still there, just cause you're disabled. I don't believe in token. Token bonuses. Free passes in life. But, um,

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: what, what do you think, Sorry, to good job. What do you think ha was helpful? Like as you were studying through those tests or like even now in med school?

Like what has been the most helpful for

Mel C: you? Well, obviously my medication, without my medication, my life doesn't exist. From very young. Absolutely. There is no way in hell I would be here if I was not medicated. Absolutely not. Impossible. I don't e I'd probably be in jail, , uh, or, or hit by a bus crossing the road because I'm so away with the berries.

Um, absolutely. But I, because that's just a part of my life, I don't often think of that as a tool, but, but it is because I, I manage, it's a daily thing that I manage every. I decide when I'm gonna take it, when the best time to my life revolves around my medication, pretty much. And, uh, it's actually really hard because I've been on it so long.

I'm at a higher dose and um, when I'm on placement now, all my peers come home and study after placement. They go, they leave at 3, 4, 5 o'clock and then they come home and study. I can't do that because when I get home, I'm done with made bad's gone. I can't say,

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: So why? Why can't they give you like a long acting and then like a short

Mel C: acting?

I've done all of that. I've done all of that, and then I'm tired. You know, even when I am medicated come through, my brain just doesn't work. You know, so I've done all of that. But what I do now, I work very closely with the uni and I'm really, really lucky. And I know this is not a thing in other universities, but my, my university Notre Dame, they are, it's a Catholic private uni.

They are very, um, very caring, very big on their pastoral care. Um, to the point that when people were in lockdown, they were bringing food, shopping to their house. And, uh, taking the people who they didn't want them to travel back home, they said, Please stay back in case you can't get back. I think they took them out bowling or something.

They were asking them what are their interests so they could keep them occupied during the Christmas holidays. Like what med school does that, you know, um, I've got their phone numbers in my phone twenty four seven. I can call the, the, the associate dean who can, you can't call deans. So my uni's very, very good and I work with them closely.

They will put me at placements very close to home. They will. So my travel time is cut, so then when I have an early day, I can rush home and still get a good time in studying. Um, sometimes like when I'm on a GP placement will arrange my schedule so that I have two full days instead of four half days, so that I can use that time of the two other days to study at home.

So, Working very closely with the uni has been a very big help and I'm very, very fortunate that they are so accommodating. They will put, if I have a, last year when we were at, when it was still theory preclinical, we would have a clinical skills and then we'd have some boring lectures in the afternoon.

Um, medicated or I don't listen to lectures very well. Uh, so they would always put me as a preference through my learning access plan. We have a special plan at uni for people like me. They would always put my clinical skills in the morning, cuz that's when I perform better. So I work with the EDI and I say, Look, this is my problem.

This is when I focus best. I struggle to learn it the best of times, but I am very capable as you know. Can you please do this to maximize my learning? If you give me this clinical skills class, that is really important for my learning. If you put me in the afternoon, I'm just gonna sit there and be a good, go and be quiet, but I'm not gonna take anything in.

So can we maximize my learning? Make sure you put me in the morning classes. And so for the last three years, that's what they've been. And it's very simple and easy for them to do. Usually it's all random anyway, the way they allocate the students. So the people who do it, the ladies who do it, they know me, They take my name, they put me in the first group, and it's, And it's just that simple, but that little simple strategy or accommodation.

Makes a massive difference to my learning massively because if it wasn't for that, I would struggle because there are times when we have a lab at night when the professors finish work and there is no choice because the labs have been at night for the last 10 years , and I enjoyed those labs, but I really struggled to get a lot out of them.

I'd take my tablets like right before that. But as an ex, you know, but then I wouldn't fall asleep that night. So, yeah. But you know, little things like that with my study was really hard initially. Um, as another strategy I had to abandon years of, a years of how I used to study. Medicine is very different, so always fronting up to lectures.

I realize very quick, quickly, if I watch lectures, I'm not learning. My learning style doesn't work. Last year I didn't watch a single lecture and I did better than I did the year before when I was watching lectures. So you really, with adhd, especially med school, you've really gotta reevaluate your learning style every single day, week to week.

Is this working for me? Do I need to abandon it? And again, like you said, being adhc a little bit stubborn sometimes, so it's hard to let go of something that you are comfortable with that has worked for you in the past. This doesn't work anymore. You know.

Yeah.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Let, let me point out some of these nuggets that you just said in case the Audi, you said so many wonderful ones that you have figured out and have optimized your, your, your life in these last three years.

One, like you just said, the environment now are so much. If you're in an environment where they appreciate you, where they see you as, you as your gift, and they flourish that and. Really support you. Like you said, they, they brought you food and it's like you said, it's the little things of knowing when you function best.

Like you work best in the morning, some people work best in the afternoon, some people are night hours. Like they just, that's how they are. Right? And so you understand yourself and then you communicate that to them. Now you have a way higher like chance that it actually. Being in your favor because you spoke out loud what you needed.

Mel C: Right. And then yeah, but before you go on, also for anybody listening, um, don't forget, I have the advantage that legally I can request it. And, and I have that medical support behind me from my doctor saying, Please support this student because everybody says I'm a night hour. Why can't I be in that morning class?

Well, because you can cope. I can. You know, so you've gotta remember that I have that, that benefit that cause of my condition. I get that, that privilege.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yes. But here's the thing, like you, you're correct. Thank you for pointing that out. But even people that have the diagnosis and even that people who their doctor could easily write this letter, like they don't speak up, they don't advocate, they

Mel C: don't, Oh yes, absolutely.

You have to be empowered. And there's lots of people in my class, they just struggle because they don't wanna tell the med school. And I'm like, Can't you see what I'm getting? Look how supportive they are to me. They're not penalizing me. Yeah, but you are still scared.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: And struggling. Yeah. And, and that's the thing, like in, in Texas, like every state is different, but in Texas, like when we apply for a medical license, like you said earlier, they want to know, do you have, do you have a mental condition that could affect like the patients, right?

Yes. And so, so if you say, uh, yes and. But you don't put that you're medicated, then obviously you're in trouble. If you say yes or, or, or you say no because you're medicated and your mind is not a condition or it's not like a liability, then you're okay. Right? And so there's, there's no right way or wrong way of doing it.

But the point is that, It is those type of questions that can get, keep people from seeking help or like you just said, asking, uh, for the things that by law they are entitled to have, so that they could have a supportive environment if, if need be. Right? And now, don't get me wrong there, because of it, there's still some people that don't understand it and they don't want to like, Acknowledge that you have ADHD because you got diagnosed later on and you're, you didn't get diagnosed when you were a kid, and you're like, Well, you must not have it.

And it's like, what? Like we did a neuropsych test that was 10 hours. They said, I have it how I not have it. Right. And so it's just so important that. You realize that whether it's at a school, whether, whether it's in your marriage, whether it's a relationship, whether it's your job, if you're in an environment does not, that does not like accept you for all your strengths.

Exactly, and for all your like sometimes not so much strength, right? Like timeliness, then it can get you into trouble because you can keep trying to do the best that you can, but you're not playing in a level field because they're not helping you to thrive in that environment. So it doesn't matter how much you try, you're never really gonna succeed.

But if you're in an environment where they do see all your greatness, oh my God, do you like, do you

Mel C: flourish? Yeah, they're, they're really good like that. They, but they're like that, like you said, they do it with everyone. You don't have to have adc. So they're so good to the parents. In our cohort, we have so many parents who have just had babies.

In fact, our dean the other day said, Any girls here, if you have a baby, best to have it in med school because we'll support you and it'll be easier for you to have a baby now than when you get a job in internship. Cause then by the time you get to internship, your kid will be four. So have a baby now girls.

Because, we'll, we'll change all your placements around. We'll let you bring your baby to class. You can breastfeed when you want. Bring it to the exec. Like, and they'll put them in different classes so they can pick up their kids on time. They don't care if they're half an hour late cuz they know the parents work harder than everybody else.

Yeah. So unless, but, But there's some people who don't reach out to the med school cause they don't wanna be a hassle. And the other parents are having a good time and these ones are struggling. And nearly having car accidents rushing or neglecting their kids, not taking 'em to school when they can and struggling because they just won't speak out.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, whether you have ADHD or not, nobody can read your mind. , absolutely nobody can. So, Absolutely. So you need to be able to voice out loud what it is you need. And yes, it might happen that you get it, or for all you know, you get something if it better that you wouldn't even expect to get, but, But if you don't even say it, then there's no way, like you already told yourself

Mel C: No.

And especially in med school and in this career. It is stressful. It is so high demanding. You're dealing with such deep, complex topics, sometimes really sad stuff, really confronting things, and the sheer amount of work. And in our med school, we're only aiming for passes. Passes competent. They really strongly encourage you.

We don't want you to get high distinctions. We don't want you to get. Just pass, please just pass his competence. And even with that mentality, you know, it's really easy in this field to to get very, very low and in a very dark place. And with that high intelligence group of people, you just at such a risk of depression and so many people break down and burn out.

And unless you're on top of it from the very beginning, it's. It's just gonna be so hard. It's just, it's, you need to look after yourself from the first day of med school

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: and, and you need to speak up about it because when you do, it normalizes it. Right. And, and it doesn't make it be a thing like the more that you just realize you're human and Exactly.

You have basic needs. Exactly. Then from there, like it's just such a different environment. I, I'm so glad that you have such a, such a supportive environment in terms of if they wanna be parenting.

Mel C: I'm not, and it breaks my heart because. We are a standalone uni. It is very unique to Notre Dame and I think even I'm not, we've got two campuses, one here in the West coast and one in the east coast.

Um, and they, they work together as uni. Their ethos is the same and it was the same in my other degrees at this uni. But you know, there's other uni's med schools in per that are not the same. There's no phone number to call. You can't call some. You can email people and then that'll go to somebody else or somebody else, but there's, nobody can go to, um, you know, the, They don't care about your timetable.

They don't care about your extra time. They don't, you know, I've got people who have contacted me on Facebook. Who their uni refuses to give them their extra time for their exams, for their, their ADHD or their learning disability, or they are flag in them or making, making a scene about it, or they're not giving them time off to go get their double mastectomy for their cancer.

And, um, well just little simple things. I, I, I, I, I'm, we're so privileged at and looked after at Notre Dame that sometimes I, uh, I hear little things from other people and I'm like, Why wouldn't the you help you with that? What? And then I realize, Oh, actually, now that I think about it, I guess that is a big ask, but we're so used to it that it's normal for us.

It's, and, and I feel so bad because I see other people at other you struggle with, with very basic things, um, that our uni just supports us with. I mean, Above and beyond. I mean, support is support, but then to bring you your shopping because you've got nobody else because you're from the eastern states.

And studying here, I mean, that's pretty nice. .

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is like, I mean, not too long ago, even here, like anything, if you don't fit a certain mold, you, you don't have the opportunity to even come into the school. Right. And then once you are in the school, like you have to try to, um, Stay put so that you don't like flunk out, but you don't realize, like you said, that not everybody's journey is the same, whether you are studying, you know, in Australia or you're studying in in Egypt, or whether you're studying in Brazil or, or in the us.

Like even in the US there's 50 states and they're in, even in Texas there's like eight, nine medical schools. And like you said, they each have their own unique culture. And way of doing things right, and so, I think at the end of the day, it doesn't matter where you study, like any physician that has gone through what you have to go through to like understands there's so many layers.

So you really have to be doing it for the right reason because like you said, the amount of work that goes into it, like I,

Mel C: it can, I tell people when people say I wanna do medicine and I know no. People used to tell me, other doctors used to tell me when I was trying to get in, they're like, run. Run far, far.

You know, I was earning $450 a day as a, as a substitute teacher, and I loved it. I loved it. And I still go during the holiday when we are on holidays, I go and pick up a few days. I used to finish at three o'clock. I had zero responsibilities. It was, I did a great job as a substitute. I just didn't do like coloring in games and stuff, like I worked hard with the.

It was easy. It was so easy. It was an easy job for me. I didn't have to think hard at all to to be a good teacher, and I was home by three, sometimes two 30, $450 a day, and. Why have I chosen this life, Diana? Why have I done this to myself? And I tell people there are easy at less you and I used to tell people I would do this job even if it only paid 30 grand a year for the rest of my life.

That's how much I want to do it now that I'm in med school. I'm a little bit, and I'm older and I know how much money means nowadays to, to survive well, but, um, I would, I still, I still love it. I still wanna do it, but I tell people, unless you are obsessed with it and it's your calling, do something else.

Yeah. Because it, I saw a sticker and it said, Medic, I'm a doctor or destroying my life to save your.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Well, Well, this is why we want to do coaching because we have to change that model. We have to change the fact that we have been taught or brainwashed or whatever led to believe that. The patient is the most important person in the room.

Like it really has to begin with you are the most important person in the room because if your mind is right, then you show up so much better to take care of them because you've slept, because you're not angry, because you're not thinking of 10,000 other things that you being human need to think about.

And then you feel guilty that you didn't do X, Y, and Z, right? And so that's why it's so important to understand that. You do finish that. You can decide how you want to practice medicine. Maybe you wanna practice part-time, maybe you want to do that plus be like, uh, somebody who gives speeches or somebody who Exactly right.

You could do whatever. Right. Like

Mel C: that's the benefit. And that's what I like about it. Like, I could do anything after this. I don't have to practice, you know, I can do so much. I can just go back to the uni and teach. It's such a great job in, in that regard that it just opens. Opportunities everywhere. Look how many doctors go into politics.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Exactly. Yeah. And so that's how then you, through your journey, even though, like you said, it was a very long one and painful one as you were going through it, like it's still opened so many doors for all those people behind you that you shown them that. Look what I did. If I was given the right opportunity, how many people could you give the right opportunity for me thereafter, Right?

And so, yeah, I mean, you don't realize probably how much of an impact you did for your school and for everybody around you and for the this Facebook group that you now have where you are fostering the possibility, right? Because we all need just a little bit of hope, a little bit of possibility of what

Mel C: if.

Yeah, I told one I remember last year after semester had finished. I went and picked up a couple of days relief at his high school and someone said something and uh, one of the kids said something and I said, Oh, don't worry, Miss Carlin has adhd. I said, Haven't I told you my story, boys and girls? And they all know that I'm in medical school.

And I told 'em the short version of my story and two girls came up to me and they were like, Oh wow, Miss Cull, I have dyslexia. And that was just so inspiring and I've been thinking that all my life, like I'm just gonna be stuck doing nothing because everything's really hard for me, but really inspired me.

And the other day, some kid cakes, um, somebody bumped into me. And they were like, Oh, I met you a couple of years ago and because of you, I did this, this, and this, and got the help that I, and I, and I fought for this and now I'm studying this. And I was like, Oh, that's awesome. Really. Like I really, um, you know, and even the other, again, the other day I went to get mask tested.

We have to get mass tested to get the right mask for when we were on placement. And the girl who was, uh, doing the masks, Testing the masks for everybody. She's got adhd, she's a nurse, she's trying to get into med school. Just from chatting. I spent an hour chatting with her and now she's just started med school, so, um, Or about to, about to.

Yeah. And, uh, she had no idea how to get her extra time, stuff like that. So, Yeah.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: So sharing your stories really does make a difference. Like it, they, they really do matter and they really do do that ripple effect, right? Other can feed themselves in you. So tell me, what do you hope to do in the next three years?

Like for

Mel C: fun In my personal life? Yeah. Ah, well, I dunno if you know, but I, uh, I'm an avid gardener. And I enter into competitions and stuff. And so I, this year I've neglected my garden. I've neglected all of that, so I really wanna get back into that next year. And I've also got a little YouTube channel where we go around filming all little, Cuz I'm Italian.

We go around filming all little Italian migrants in their garden. Um, and have quite a big following on that, so I'd love to do that. But the, the, the big thing that I wanna start doing, but again, it's a little bit tricky and even this, this, you know, I'm, I'm doing this with you, but this is even a bit risky for me because I think, Oh, somebody searches my name on YouTube, you know, But then I think, Oh, the chances of it are low could impact my job.

I always have to take that in consideration. But so next year or the year after, as soon as I qualify, what I really wanna do is I wanna make a series of videos, um, listing this sort of advice, giving these sorts of talks. Another one on depression anxiety, which I'm a big advocate for. So that's something I'm really looking forward to and dying to do.

I got little scripts written ready to go, but again, because of the stigma, I have to wait. I have to wait until I graduate. And get a job that's

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: just around the corner  Mel C: before I make, before I risk it. Do you know what I mean? Like that's how bad a society I have to wait to help people and plan it just in case impacts me.

But I am to that because I give these, I give this conversation and speech to so many people that. I'm getting tired of saying no over and over so I could refer to a video. So that's something that I really wanna do, an actual little project that, um, and start making these videos with little instructions.

Um, to help other people. So, but why don't you

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: just start recording them cause they're fresh in your mind, but you don't have to release them or say like, you have ready when you're ready to go because you know, like you said, this is something that comes to you so easily, so might as well. Like

Mel C: That's a good point.

Yeah. Why am I waiting? Cause I'm gonna get older, so at least in the videos, I'll be three years younger.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Hey, you never know. This could be like underground, like secret, like, you know, stuff that you could share with only your most pristi clients, right? .

Mel C: So, yeah, that's something I'm really looking forward to.

I'm really looking for. And also, once I graduate and I will be a doctor, then I have. That authority to make some of these comments. You know, I can go online and say, if you are depressed, you need to take your tablets every day. And these are some tablets that you could take. Like I could say that if I put my dad who's a pharmacist in the video, but I can't do it without someone of authority because what authority do I have as a medical student?

But then I think people go online and make videos to not take medications. But I guess I'm held under a different jurisdiction. Yeah,

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: but you could say like medications work. You don't have to say which one you like. And you could say, and you could also say like, medications are one of the tools you can do X, Y, and Z.

Right. And at the end of the day, you're advocating for a better them. That's what you're advocating for. I,

Mel C: It's not, but again,

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: yeah, all you're saying is. Look, what are you, what kind of life are you trying to get to? Like, whatever you've been doing, you need to up level those systems cuz they're not gonna get you there.

Like you're probably stuck in X, Y, and Z, which is normal. We all can get stuck. But the difference between somebody who stays there or he keeps moving is if they sometimes reach out for help. Mm-hmm. and, and that's it. Right? And, and then you can say, you know, And then later on you could be like, And I work here.

Come see me, .

Mel C: Yep. That's it. Yep.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Start writing your book, girl, so you can sell your book. It's coming.

Okay, so where can people find you? What if they wanna send you an email or they wanna reach you to on your Facebook? Or where can they

Mel C: find. Uh, they can find me on that. Uh, our Facebook group, uh, which is doctors and medical students with adhd. Uh, we can always, uh, whack my email down somewhere if you want.

It's just melissa carlin hotmail.com. Uh, yeah. Or I suppose you could find me on Facebook. You could find me on Facebook. You can't miss it. Um, flick me a message. I'm very, I'm very, very happy to help anybody. I've got so many people who message me and often they just need a little instruction. Or who do I need to see at my uni?

Or my uni's giving me a hard time, or what do I need to say to get my time? Or, I'm worried about disclosing this. What should I do? Or, How do you,

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: all those topics start doing you little videos like you said, so that you don't have to keep telling them over and over, you're like, Here's my link. Here's this link, here's this link.

And you know, you could, like you said, you have a YouTube channel, you can put 'em there and draft them, and then when you're, Yeah. Or you could give them the link to the private thing that only they can see if you're worried about

Mel C: X, Y, and Z. True. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: That's a good idea. So let's, So you know, we have a D and we have wondering attention.

So let's say somebody just zoomed back in right now and they're like, Oh, what is the takeaway point? What would the challenge from  Mel C: is

ad is a gift. And a challenge that doesn't quite fit into this world, but can fit into this world. Um, and the biggest thing that I would tell anybody is do not give up. Do not waste your time, uh, arguing with the system and saying it should be like this. Society's not gonna change for you. You have to make it work for.

So forget about what it should be and work with what you've got. Make it work. Don't give up on your plans and your dreams. Know what your challenges are and what you need to to succeed in life. And then try and implement those things as much as you can. And when people try and make excuses to not give you what you need within reason, um, don't back down.

Because oftentimes these systems are just a bit lazy or they try to save money, um, and you just need to fight a little bit harder. Don't accept the first answer they give you if it, if it doesn't suit your needs, you need to succeed. Just as important as everybody. It's not a little bit more .

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yes, there you have it.

You are just as important. Actually, no, you are the most important person. So you do need to advocate for yourself. And like I always say, ADHD is a gift, but you just have to know how to unwrap it because if you don't, it can get us into trouble. Like she said, we. Spend some money that we don't have or end up in jail using some types of stuff, but we shouldn't be on.

Cause your brain is asking you for dopamine, so important for you to advocate for yourself. And if the answer you get is not the one you wanted, what lesson did you learn so that you can go back and get what

Mel C: you need? And I think the other big important takeaway is you are not the only one you would not believe.

How many doctors have adhd? Walk into any ed department and you'll struggle to find someone without it.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Yeah, and again, it's because we, we are following her path. I haven't met anybody who has ADHD that is doing something that is not in alignment with themselves. So that's why it's so important that you do you, like she said, and then let the rest happen as it's gonna

Mel C: happen.

Yep. That's it. That's it. Don't give up. Don't think you're unusual. Don't be ashamed. Don't be afraid of asking for. You're not the only one. It's just unfortunate that in this, uh, industry, people will keep it a little bit on the low down. Um, and hopefully you can contribute to just casually opening that window up and, and normalizing it.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: This is what this podcast is about, and this is why I'm like so passionate about, you know, going to speak up in private places but in public places, anywhere, so that people can see if they have a loved one or themselves that have something they can support you instead of, uh, hindering

Mel C: you. Yeah. And also I love to show people that this is the face of a d d.

Here are two doctors or our one nearly a doctor. This is the face of adhd. It's not the crazy kid on the couch, on the news jumping with a knife that you always see. We are just normal people who get a little bit distracted. Yeah.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Who keeps things interesting? .

Mel C: Yeah. Like this is the face of D It is not a bad thing to have adhd.

It's not, you're not some weirdo, some troubled problem child. This is, this is normal. You are, you are just a normal, Well, I dunno if I'm normal, but

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: extraordinary. .

Mel C: Yeah. It's uh, It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's a very common condition. And, uh, yeah, you are not, you're not, um, in some special category where you're on the outskirts of society or you're a weirdo or you're never gonna make it. I mean, I have five degrees, this is my fifth degree. So parents watching this, your child can do extraordinary things.

Just give them the support they.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Exactly. Thank you so much for Well, thank you, Diana. Spend your time. As you know, time is our most valuable asset, and your story really does matter, and I really hope it inspires most of us who think, Oh, well, I'm gonna give after the first time. No, to keep trying. If this is.

In your path. Keep trying. Thank you. And ask for help because others, before you will tell you what worked and didn't work, but at the end of the day, you

Mel C: will figure it out. Yeah. Fight for, fight for what you want and once you accept that, you're gonna have to fight a little bit. Your life will be a a lot easier.

You just gotta stand on your ground and and go for it.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Well thank you again so much for coming.  Mel C: Thank you so much, dad. I really appreciate it. It's great fun.

Dr. Diana Mercado-Marmarosh: Thank you for spending your time with me. I really believe that time is your most valuable asset. Please subscribe to the podcast. Share with your colleagues and don't forget to check out my website@adhdlivecoach.com where you can find out about my upcoming coaching group classes, as well as free master classes and other exciting events that are happening.