Wazel Brothers Build: Recent Episodes

Brandon Waselnuk, Adam Waselnuk

Two brothers have honest conversations about how they are building businesses on the internet.

Brandon is the Co-Founder of usecodex.com, a dev tool that makes sharing code context easy. Adam is the Co-Founder of legendkeeper.com, a SaaS app for collaborative worldbuilding.

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  • Adam has joined the team at LegendKeeper
  • Adam published his thought process on finding a team on his blog.
  • Summary of Adam's thought process of why he wanted to find a team. His story so far.
  • Why Adam did not join Codex
  • Worldbuilding software is highly competitive within the TTRPG software niche.
  • The big jumps in business maturity Adam has to go through now. Feelings of overwhelm.
  • The importance of taking a step back to look at the big picture. The shift to LegendKeeper was not driven by daily pain.
  • The effect on Brandon of moving to Vancouver.
  • Brandon has joined Y Combinator to accelerate Codex
  • Recent IndieHackers podcast gives some insight into what YC is actually like.
  • The importance of peer pressure.
  • Brandon's take on YC so far.
  • The magic of deadlines when you have a great team.
  • Adam's first ever Angel Investment. The joy of placing asymmetric bets.
  • Stats on how likely you are to succeed as an angel investor.
  • The scary truth of B2C odds when focusing on profit.
  • SaaS has benchmarks which are useful.
  • Quantitative VS Qualitative definitions of Product-Market Fit.
  • Differences in milestones for VC-track VS boostrap companies.
  • Subtleties of retention.
  • The LK business impressions so far.
  • Brandon's Request: Make the recipes of the worldbuilders in LegendKeeper and film it on YouTube.

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  • Certain laws restrict what you can say about fundraising.
  • Fundraising is going really well. Brandon gives it a score of 13/10.
  • Line tracking in VSCode gets tricky when the file is in an 'edited' state.
  • Waiting list of 20 teams for Codex.
  • Comparing the fintech whitepaper that Dignified created with the one that Accenture created.
  • The rationale for creating an in-depth whitepaper on fintech.
  • How to leverage a whitepaper when Dignified has moved past its original goal.
  • The "reverse pyramid" content strategy.
  • Considering the Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering as a content pillar.
  • Trust signals matter. "Badges are unreasonably effective" in marketplaces.
  • "Dignified" the agency is a brand that Brandon has built up but now they are shifting all their energy to Codex. How do you make a decision to let go of that kind of asset?
  • The compounding effect of focusing in one market as a solo founder. This makes it hard to consider projects in other markets - even when they are promising.
  • The difficulty of starting at 0 with no audience or distribution.
  • The power of building relationships in a market. How it helped launch the Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering.
  • Why so many technical founders make dev tools.
  • The big vision of Codex.
  • Adam is heads down on building a Town generator for Here Be Taverns
  • Adam writing a couple guest posts to promote the guide.
  • Breakdown of the launch of the Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering.
  • When all was said and done, the guide was not as well received as Here Be Taverns.
  • Considering who the addressable market is for the Guide vs HBT.
  • What the data suggests about reader behaviour on the guide.
  • Starting to think about marketing strategy for Sword & Source products. Sales for HBT have slowed down significantly.
  • The same old problem: lots of good ideas and not enough time to do them all.
  • A "66 days of marketing" build in public stunt.
  • How fun it would be to hire for Sword & Source.
  • A breakdown of the Traction framework for creating a marketing strategy.
  • Detailed deep dive and Brandon's take on what Adam should do for his marketing strategy.

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Show notes* Closing out agency work was surprisingly hard because of the demand for talent. * Pushing to ship a VS Code extension for Codex to gain early traction from a waitlist * Basic Job to be Done for Codex * Fitting into customers current tooling seems important for Codex * The expectation for real time communication when sharing context at work * VS Code's liveshare mode * Fundraising went above expectations but Brandon needs to show at least 1 big customer using Codex in production * VCs are worried about being able to sell to developer market because devs are skeptical about products * Adam concerned Brandon will get lots of usage data within his 1 month of runway. Optimistic about getting installs. * What happens if Brandon runs out of runway? He will still push forward on Codex * Adam officially made his first sale and now has revenue in his business. * Successfully launched Here Be Taverns Premium with only 1 generator. 2 remain to be built. * Review of launch email, pricing, and discount * Sales tip: give people a chance to make the purchase decision before launch day * Time spent on clarifying the early-access nature of the premium sale * Ask for the sale * Review of sales numbers so far * The joy of decoupling time from income * Adam is extremely optimistic because sales keep trickling in even though he has not done a full launch or started real marketing * Next steps for Here Be Taverns * Always test in production!! Adam's rule for when to rollback. * The power of chat ops * User count on Here Be Taverns far exceeds sales count (97 vs 15). Tons of potential for next group of customers. * Brandon breaks down Adam's email where he described possible future features for Here Be Taverns * Brandon says "I told you so" again * Brandon seems impressed with Adam's numbers * Comparing Here Be Taverns to other consumer products like videogames * Shoutout to Ben Barbersmith for helping Adam set a higher launch price * Trying to understand the value of Here Be Taverns. * The business model for D&D Beyond. * Adam's theory about price anchors for Here Be Taverns and how it helps him charge more. Comparison to price anchors for iphone games. * Leader in generators is donjon * Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering Launched!!

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  • Focus on building new generators for Here Be Taverns Premium
  • Adam's process is design and build at the same time
  • Adam's approach to interlinking products together and how his projects drive traffic to each other
  • Emotion driven development
  • Heraldry generator
  • The potential for GPT-3 for Here Be Taverns
  • Can AI do visual design?
  • Decisions that needs to be made: When should I launch the premium pass?
  • Adam's rationale for his prices
  • Launching sooner so that you don't sit on value you've created
  • Using the D&D core books as a price anchor
  • Launch discount strategies
  • Think of your business goals and how your prices reflect them
  • Adam's wish to make Sword & Source a premiumish brand that differentiates on quality
  • Buying power in RPG industry
  • The Sandi Metz approach to giving away products
  • Software products can still learn a lot from retailers
  • The lameness of the gaming industry business models built around microtransactions
  • Brandon's advice to buy a trophy when you make your first sale
  • Quick update on Codex fundraise
  • Focusing on the most important type of risk when pitching
  • The chicken and egg problem of fundraising

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  • Finding the ideal customer for Codex
  • Tier 1 funds are interested in Codex which surprises Brandon. He assumed he needed to play a long game but got invited to pitch.
  • Founders used to need investors. Now investors need founders.
  • What's the one thing Brandon can't screw up in the pitch meeting.
  • Brandon discusses mistakes he made in a pitch recently.
  • Adam grills Brandon on the question: What's your mission? What connects the big vision to his current tactics.
  • Adam is focused on premium offering for Here Be Taverns
  • Adam's main pricing decision is focused around "what is simplest?".
  • Adam's new shortened workday schedule: Fast to desk, focus on one thing, end at 1pm. Surprisingly, shortening his hours has increased his output.
  • Brandon shares his typical work rhythm.
  • Adam asks Brandon to workshop the actual roll-out plan for Here Be Taverns Premium. He is not certain when he should ship and how that might affect price point.
  • Potential customers are already telling Adam they are interested in premium. Putting an email signup on a coming soon page was very effective for validation and new subscribers

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  • Fundraising update on Codex
  • πŸŽ‰ Brandon is structuring an LOI (Letter of Intent) for Codex.
  • Adam is back in his groove. Discusses a slump he has been in recently.
  • Alpha readers have delivered their feedback on The Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering
  • Adam reviews the launch phases for the guide and his rationale.
  • Adam walks through his current build of the Guide.
  • Plan for scaling the guide to other game systems IF the project has traction.
  • Brandon advertises the Holloway guides again.
  • The surprising quality of the alpha readers and what they taught Adam.
  • Musing on a spin-off project for Game Master "Case Studies".
  • Adam shares how his reflection on the need to ship fast lead him to his next idea for revenue. Realizes the potential for Here Be Taverns
  • Walks through his idea to add a premium offering to Here Be Taverns.
  • The complexity of user login and payments. Lot's of people selling products around just that problem. Adam was approached by tons of people in Twitter DMs.
  • Adam sidesteps all the work and complexity by deciding to just ship a password to access the site.

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  • Clearing the creativity faucet as a metaphor for writing from David Perell
  • How to improve at writing
    • Writing prompts
    • Writing every day
  • Creative writing VS Business writing
  • Brandon's experience using a pre-written adventure module for our D&D game
  • Adam is learning about "adventure writing" which is a unique format that combines game design, utility, and creative writing
  • Adam started an "Adventure Reading Club" to learn more about the format
  • Product Managers should take more notes to practice writing
  • Writing skills matter a lot if you want to be effective within an organization. Especially if you have manager in your title.
  • Product Managers are needed at scale, not at the beginning
  • Telling people to "get better at writing" is bad advice because it is not actionable.
  • How Adam actually became a better writer:
    • Writing every day
    • Running everything through a self-edit round in hemingwayapp.com
    • Separate the writing and editing phase. Don't do them at the same time.
    • Separate the writing and editing phase by at least one day if you are working on something substantial.
    • Business writing should be strong by being concise and clear. You want maximum impact for minimum word count.
  • Brandon has 3 real teams using Codex
  • Derek Sivers on present VS future focused people
  • Sequence of moving across the country and launching Codex seemed off
  • Future focused people have a hard time estimating the amount of mental energy things in the present will require
  • You have to understand attention management in order to improve time management
  • Adam underestimated how much attention his projects with freelancers would take
  • Brandon believes he made the right choice to ship sooner even though he was moving
  • Rough timeline of the next month for Codex
  • The way raising money while building really works
  • The raising process explains why so many founders flocked to silicon valley
  • The Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering has completed Alpha phase
  • Tightening up the intended audience will lead to a more effective guide
  • Write useful books by Rob Fitzpatrick
  • Applying product thinking to book writing
  • Holloway makes awesome books
  • Adam really wants you to just ship sooner. Big question: "How did he not internalize this even after a career at Shopify?"
  • Code Quality Challenge by Ben Orenstein
  • Cargo culting home feeds
  • Dev anxiety around Pull Requests
  • Our companies are too small for OKRs. Do or do not.

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  • Brandon's caffeine intake cycle and the dangers of caffeine intake.
  • Opportunity for a business focused on decaf?
  • "The brightest flame burns quickest"
  • Adam's death-consciousness
  • What is a life well lived?
  • Putting in too many hours is a bad strategy when you do knowledge work
  • Consider the review process when you need to launch on a platform like the Google App store
  • 🎊 Codex is now available in the chrome store!
  • Brandon's favourite Codex feature: "Request context"
  • Capturing an engineer's reply to questions is a differentiator for Codex
  • Using documentation to systemize and scale your time
  • Adam still has concerned about the level of abstraction Codex is focused on
  • Context in code should focus on the 'unexpected moments'
  • Most important next step for Codex: have teams use it so they can hone in on ideal customer
  • The Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering is going out to alpha readers
  • Adam will use Google Docs for the alpha review so that he doesn't have to ask people to sign up for Notion
  • After alpha review the guide will be an 'open beta'. It will be soft launched so that Adam can see more new GMs try it before pouring on marketing efforts.
  • Adam discusses his biggest realization of entrepreneurship: Ship often
  • Adam seriously doubts people's ability to understand and change complex systems
  • Reflection on how waiting to ship the guide was a failure
  • Example of shipping fast: Free Fantasy Stock Art built with airtable.
  • Chess is a useful example for clarifying just how impossible it is for you to understand every variable in business.
  • Adam is learning to trust himself more as a founder in the gaming space
  • Adam keeps almost falling into the trap of going after something big and ambitious.
  • Project HearthQuest
  • "I can help people sooner by starting smaller" - Adam
  • The pain of having a big vision but sharing a small, scrappy piece with the world and hearing the feedback.

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  • Learning SEO by trying Moz
  • Marketing is hard when you don't have a product or service to focus energy towards. SEO as a focused practice can't start yet.
  • Chris Gimmer on SEO
  • RPG Twitter trends: giveaways, support each other threads, etc.
  • Adam would rather have a smaller number of engaged fans then a huge follower count as a vanity metric
  • Positive sum thinking in agencies
  • Agencies are being acquired for talent acquisition
  • War for talent in tech
  • Debate on how hiring process should work
  • How to negotiate: Whoever has more information wins
  • Brandon stumps Adam with his favourite interview question: "In the last 24 hours what was the most interesting thing you did that isn't related to work?"
  • The science of behaviour change. Motivation comes first, but how can you change it?
  • It's easier to run away from pain, than run towards a goal

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  • Moving is very distracting
  • Codex has a landing page. Adam critiques it on air.
  • Brandon got slammed on his pitch deck. Walks through some of the highlights.
  • Us Canadians should brag more.
  • Brandon explains how to set up a fund raise. Adam understands about 60% of it.
  • How much Brandon wants to raise for Codex. Secures a commitment for his "first cheque".
  • Adam does not think working alone is his ideal scenario. Has been thinking a lot about how to work with others.
  • Feelings of frustration at how slow things move when you are the only person building.
  • Hack Day with Brandon and Adam on a new project idea for Sword & Source. Further proof that working with a partner makes Adam go faster.
  • Warning: Avoid fundraising unless you are in a position of strength. Have a product with traction.
  • When fundraising you need to do it before you have any revenue OR after you have solid revenue. Raising when you just started getting revenue won't work.
  • Venture Deals by Brad Feld is the only book you'll ever need to buy for fund raising.

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  • Brandon is moving to Vancouver
  • Quiet vs busy seasons in agency work
  • Process for booking customer discovery calls
  • The importance of building a network
  • Is Adam actually wise?
  • Finding the benefits of life challenges
  • Engineering teams are ahead in async work patterns
  • Figma as an example of adopting Engineering tooling in design teams
  • How to do cold outreach and why you should
  • RPG marketplaces and Adam's plan to research them and produce content
  • Being a better client for freelancers
  • Adam's tendency to give people tasks that are too open-ended
  • Questioning the mantra of being problem focused when validating projects

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  • Lessons from being a performer: Embracing the fear of the stage
  • Codex customer development
  • How Tuple acquired enterprise customers by focusing on developers
  • The ideal path to selling Codex
  • Progress on The Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering.
  • Adam thinking about secondary projects to work on when guide work is blocked.
  • Chief Adventure Experience Officer
  • How to do early releases of the guide when quality is a core concern
  • Adam is not thinking about the guide in terms of MVP because he is overconfident about what the product should because
  • The effort required for editing a piece of serious longform writing
  • Potential release phases for the guide and positioning as a 'beta'
  • Adam ranting about his dislike of instant chat customer support
  • Building the guide: Should Adam build or buy?
  • Testing out riverside.fm to record the podcast
  • Brandon is moving to Vancouver
  • Adam made his first dollar on the internet

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  • Using Secfi to invest in stock options at private companies.
  • Scott Adams the creator of Dilbert and his tactics for making Dilbert a smash hit.
  • Hard to find good resources on investing.
  • Brandon explains /r/wallstreetbets and GameStop saga to Adam.
  • Here Be Taverns launch analysis with numbers.
  • Adam still doesn't understand Twitter for Sword & Source.
  • Adam started Sword & Source partly because he saw so many indecipherable tools in that market.
  • Making deliberate time to prepare for launch was the key to success. Building your own checklist is the fastest path if you know your audience.
  • Given the success of the Here Be Taverns launch, should Adam invest more in it?
  • How might Adam monetize Here Be Taverns?
  • The unique power of tabletop roleplaying games.
  • Brandon working towards the first release of Codex.
  • Shiba interlude.
  • What features will be tablestakes in 5 years from now?

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  • Brandon's new project: Codex - context sharing for developers
  • When to raise venture capital rather than bootstrap
  • How do you decide to focus on a product when you run a service agency?
  • Applying The Mom Test
  • Should you ask people to "click to tweet"?
  • How to get more reviews for your products
  • Adam focusing on launching Here Be Taverns - random tavern generator for RPGs
  • Happiness as a function of expectation setting
  • Setting goals are valuable to help you focus efforts in the right places
  • Adam not impressed with launch checklists you find on the internet such as Startup Growth Kit
  • Adam discussing his launch prep
  • Knowing your audience and market can help you make for a great launch checklist
  • Planning launch in advance allows you to do work ahead of time that can be scheduled
  • The power of social media if you hit a tipping point of people talking. Thunderclap (now gone)
  • The challenge of community marketing when you don't have time to invest in them
  • Adam is really excited to read Traction once he decides what product to focus on
  • Potential of advertising in game stores
  • Communities as a traction channel and performance marketing

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  • How we ship wbb.fm every week
  • Deciding not to launch a Sword & Source podcast... yet
  • The risk of recurring content commitments
  • How long it takes to make an episode of Null to Zero podcast
  • How much time should you spend on marketing? Should you be marketing products that are themselves marketing products?
  • Adam may be short-selling his next project Here Be Taverns. It is launching Jan.22.
  • The power of twitch streamers as top of funnel in the games industry.
  • LoreCraft Twitch channel.
  • [23:00] Adam asks Brandon to walk through all his upcoming project ideas and help him evaluate risk.
  • Adam's custom idea validation template.
  • Discussion of Lean Canvas
  • [32:00] Adam runs through every idea on his shortlist
  • Project: "Actual Play" highlight reel
  • Project: Ebook for Dev Managers
  • Project: PlayByPost engine for keeping people engaged with the game
  • Project: RPG Character Graveyard
  • Project: Print on Demand Cards
  • Project: Stock Art Site for RPGs
  • We love Unsplash

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  • Tabata workout
  • Not being able to start a meditation practice.
  • Mindfulness in every day life.
  • Parenting as a form of rapid, painful, personal growth.
  • Brandon's year in review vs Adam's
  • Personal data that no one else has as a unique selling point.
  • Adam wants to do more favours. Brandon wants to do less. What gives?
  • Brandon's paused project focused on the creator economy.
  • Adam considers focusing on learning marketing so he can teach it to RPG creators.
  • The challenge of identifying your ideal customer and the benefits of doing so.
  • Branding discussion. Adam struggles to figure out messaging as he widens the scope of who could be his customer.
  • All the types of RPG creators.
  • Tactics for better understanding and targetting customers.
  • Using tools to learn more about your audience such as Clearbit or the Facebook lookalike tool. Adam's distrust of Facebook.
  • Revenue streams for howtogm.guide
  • Adam's plan to walk a mile in the shoes of RPG creators in order to build better empathy, product, and content marketing.
  • Noah Kagan, the CEO of AppSumo made $1000 in 24 hours starting a beef jerky business.
  • Sexy marketing disciplines VS useful ones.
  • Tech industry's obsession with data-driven marketing. The trap that created for Brandon when he was building Tattoo Hero.
  • MrBeast giveaways and the island giveaway
  • There is a community of marketers who can distract you with their interesting antics and personalities.

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  • Adam's Year in Review
  • Brandon's Year in Review
  • You can't pass on wisdom. You need to experience some pains.
  • 0 to 1 VS incremental improvement.
  • Zero to One by Peter Thiel
  • Why you should not go 0 to 1 as a bootstrapper.
  • Good business models for bootstrappers.
  • CEO = Chief Everything Officer.
  • The challenges in RPGs as a bootstrapper.
  • The advantages to being in an early market.
  • Defining what rich looks like.
  • How to optimize for income in the tech industry.
  • "Clarify what you value most before starting a business" sounds like good advice but is not actually easy.
  • Adam noticing his own values shift over time.
  • Is Adam's move to entrepreneurship just a midlife crisis?
  • The pendulum swing between adventure and security.
  • Brandon's potential merger.
  • Early stage entrepreneurship is like dating.
  • The endgame of entrepreneurship.
  • Invest in yourself.
  • Entrepreneurship as an asset in the job market.
  • How Adam creates his areas of focus and why he avoids setting concrete goals.
  • How to build new habits by optimizing for making them attainable.
  • Brandon's quest for better cooking.

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  • Adam's Year in Review
  • Brandon's Year in Review
  • Year In Review template on yearcompass.com
  • Adam pushes Brandon to write his year in review and keep it raw
  • The power of having a high baseline for your emotional state
  • How Brandon improved his emotional baseline using Cognitive Behavioural Therapy
  • How Brandon became a lot better at sales
  • The answer to anything that matters is usually simple: consistent work
  • Personal finance
  • Bitcoin and libertarians
  • Failing at social media
  • Tell your clients to cut features
  • Quick review of Q4 Sword & Source projects build times
  • Thinking smaller by imagining different formats
  • Idea validation advice: "Sell it before you build it" is not super helpful. Adam is looking for more tactics.
  • How to explore and validate without an MVP
  • Selling an idea based on trust with your audience
  • The potential for personal CRMs

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  • Struggling with burnout
  • How to be productive as a knowledge worker
  • The power of the subconscious mind
  • Priming the subsconscious mind with the Josh Waitzkin approach https://tim.blog/2016/03/23/josh-waitzkin-the-prodigy-returns/
  • Lucid dreaming
  • Adam's interest moving away from coding
  • The value of writing to accelerate your career
  • Tactics for improving your writing
  • Adam's idea to build a digital graveyard. How will he justify trying it?
  • Buying pixels to raise money for charity
  • Adam noticing the trap of over-analysis and assuming he knows too much.
  • Building a personal lean canvas
  • Thinking smaller to build a portfolio of experiments
  • Digital art giveaway experiment

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  • Highlights
    • Work, Studies, Profession
    • Relaxation, Hobbies, Creativity
    • Friends, Community
    • Health, Fitness
    • Intellectual
    • Emotional, Spiritual
    • Finances
    • Personal life and family
    • Belongings (Home, Objects)
    • Bucket List
  • Lessons learned
    • Intentionally designing my life with Amanda shielded our family
    • I am here to serve TTRPG creators
    • Being a better writer is mostly about being interesting
    • I thrive in uncertainty
    • Inspiration, constraints, and NoCode leads to remarkable results
    • Focus on social media was bad for my business but great for relationships
    • Make new habits attainable rather than optimal
    • I’m a great people lead
    • When building a new API, start with infrastructure
    • We are bad at evaluating risk and lean on culture to guide us
    • Leverage your personal monopoly
    • Career advancement is about who you know
    • It’s hard to predict ROI in the early stages. You should take more shots and diversify.
  • Intentions for 2021
    • Process over goals
    • Collaborate. Collaborate. Collaborate.
    • More, cheaper tests
    • Ask for money
    • Learn NoCode tools
    • Stop worrying about social media and become a teacher
    • Leave space for inspiration and reflection
    • Build trust and dialogue with my audience
    • Intentional information consumption
    • Triple down on writing
    • Triple down on mythology
    • Recommit to longsword fighting
    • Improve family spending habits
    • Continue to hike and exercise
    • Continue with piano
    • Continue studying marketing
    • Build more with family

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  • Marketing community by Corey Haines: https://www.swipefiles.co/
  • The substack model
  • Designing the ideal bootstrapped business by Jason Cohen
  • MicroConf community
  • Adam should obviously join Microconf community
  • Dave Gehardt Community
  • Patio11
  • Art of Product Podcast and Ben (@r00k)
  • OnDeck fellowships - reach out to Erik and ask about agencies
  • Adam seriously thinking about finding a CoFounder. How would you do that?
  • Shane Parrish of Farnham street
  • Great by Choice

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  • Check out the awesome guides at julian.com
  • The Quickstart Guide to Game Mastering
  • Game mastering as a deep craft.
  • Founders should learn to be an RPG Game Master
  • SPI Podcast mentioned by Brandon
  • Todd Tresider is a financial mentor
  • Brandon's spreadsheet for hypothesis testing
  • Talk to Adam Waselnuk on Twitter about Game Mastering

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In this episode, us Wazel Brothers discuss Vasectomies and World of Warcraft for the first 10 minutes. Feel free to jump to minute 10 if you want to skip past that and get straight to business. We then dive into proposal writing, benefits and drawbacks of value-based pricing, and how Adam is exploring and meeting people in the RPG industry by building things on the internet.

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Agency masterminds. Ratchety marketing engines. Communities are distractions. Signs of early adopters.

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KP is the Program Director of the @beondeck No-Code Fellowship.

Brandon Chu wrote The Black Box of Product Management.