The Burning Issue: Recent Episodes
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Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector.
Presented by Luke Walsh, the editor of endswasteandbioenergy.com, the show interviews leading figures in the energy recovery sector and aims to investigate where the sector is now and where does it go from here.
Luke became interested in waste management while working on a bin lorry one summer in Essex. The team he was with collected commercial waste and dumped it in a huge landfill in Pitsea, with no attempt to sort or recycle it.
Looking out over the landfill Luke thought this was the wrong approach and started writing about environmental issues and reporting on the energy-from-waste sector, which he believes is the best solution for waste that can’t be recycled. But is this still the case?
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Enfinium's director of external affairs and strategic policy Karl Smyth about building carbon capture at the UK’s largest EfW site
This episode focuses on:
- Developing a CCS pilot at the Ferrybridge EfW site next month
- What comes next after the permitting pause and expected strategic review of EfW capacity
- With a general election due will a change of government increase focus on the waste sector
- UK ETS will “encourage innovation around contracting”
- Two more EfW plants expected operational next year
- How a total of six EfW facilities is “probably” enough for the company
- Why carbon capture is like squeezing a double decker bus through a small pipe network
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks ESA executive director Jacob Hayler as the development and future of the UK’s energy-from-waste sector is thrown into the air by the government’s controversial block on new environmental permits.
This episode focuses on:
- Could an EfW moratorium be in Labour’s general election manifesto
- “Political interference” in the permitting process
- Should DEFRA minister Steve Barclay resign?
- Government has spread investor concern over the entire permitting process
- Industry has a “perception that there is a lack of coordination and joined up and clarity” with the current government
- EA struggling with lack of funds and “too many constraints”
- Concerns including EfW in the UK ETS will lead to “carbon tourism or leakage”
Hayler joined the ESA from the city in 2005 as an economist, and has worked to develop market-focused policies that combine environmental and economic sustainability. He also has responsibility at the trade body for policy relating to finance, tax, carbon management, contracts and of course EfW.
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Gallagher partner Ian Lester.
This podcast covers:
- Why insurers won’t be covering the permitting process anymore
- Operational plants unable to find insurance
- Understanding the risks around carbon capture
- Finding a box of hand grenades dumped in waste
- SAF projects are “receiving a lot of interest”
- Fires in Netherlands and US have concerned insurers covering the sector
- How council can cover facilities as PFI deals end.
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Waste Knot Energy’s CEO Ian Jones.
This episode focuses on:
- Developing a new market for waste-derived pellets
- Exporting pellets from the UK for the first time
- Why the government needs to provide a framework for the EA and other departments “to be more successful”
- How biogas could reduce WKE’s CO2 footprint to “almost zero”
- Why more businesses will enter the waste-to-pellet market
- Investors need to know the era of rapid payback on waste projects has ended
- Could power stations like Drax run on waste?
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to OCO managing director Graham Cooper. This episode focuses on:
- What goes into producing limestone aggregate
- Using “expensive carbon intensive and non-renewable materials is an outdated view”
- Landfilling APCr through derogations needs to be “looked at”
- Pushing the business beyond the UK
- How does OCO’s carbon capture and utilisation (CCU) technology work?
- The long-standing link between the aggregates and waste industries
- Expanding current facilities and opening news one
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to KEW Technology and Circular Fuels’ head of sustainability, ESG and policy. This episode focuses on:
- Why KEW is out in the market now after years of technology development
- How the company is changing industry views on gasification technology
- Growing from a team of ten to 100
- The waste sector needs a “unified voice” over lack of clarity around UK ETS
- Is the waste sector doing enough to encourage people from all backgrounds to join it?
- Working with Suez and future collaborations
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Sikla’s head of sales for the UK, Ireland, Oceania and North America, Harry Starke.
This episode focuses on:
- If Germany and France have 100+ EfWs each why shouldn’t the UK?
- What is was like working on the the troubled “three + one” EfW and biomass projects
- Why developers need to take steel measurements seriously
- Dealing with EPC and other contractors on an EfW build
- Pipework “is what you see all around” EfW plants.
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to the current president of Chartered Institution of Wastes Management (CIWM) and former group head of sustainability at Viridor Dan Cooke.
This episode focuses on:
- The UK is developing “world-class regulation”
- Emissions trading scheme and the impact it will have
- How Viridor moved from landfill to EfW and what happened in between
- There are still capacity gaps for merchant plants to come in
- How data and AI will support the waste sector
Alongside his CIWM role Cooke is currently head of protected and historic landscapes at Cornwall Council.
Cooke’s career in the waste and resources sector spans three decades and takes in roles in local government, environmental charity and the private sector. He served 21 years with Viridor, holding roles including group head of sustainability, director of regulatory affairs and director of external affairs.
He is an environmental (ESG), communications and landscapes professional with over 35 years’ experience in the recycling/waste management, water and landscapes sectors (working across private companies, public authorities and charities). Cooke has also held previous roles with Tidy Britain Group/Environmental Campaigns, and Coventry City Council.
Previously he served as chair of the Waste Management Industry Training and Advisory Board (WAMITAB); director of Viridor Credits Environmental Ltd (an independent charity distributing grants of £5-8M/yr via the Landfill Communities Fund); and trustee of the Carymoor Environmental Trust.
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EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to the outspoken National Association of Waste Disposal Officers (NAWDO) secretary and City of Westminster’s waste and recycling manager Jarno Stet
This episode focuses on:
- Social media and does it still have a place for professionals
- How Westminister developed a waste collection fleet powered on the waste it collects
- Will producing hydrogen from waste be the next big thing
- Criticism of local authority waste contracting processes are “cheap”
- Is the UK reaching EfW capacity and should Europe work together more to share capacity.
Stet, who is also a member of the Chartered Institute of Waste Management, specialises in local authority waste management.
As the current secretary of the NAWDO, Stet works to support the interests of local authorities when it comes to waste processing.
Stet is also waste and recycling manager for local authority Westminster City Council, overseeing waste management for about 250,000 residents, 34,000 businesses and about one million daily commuters and tourists.
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For the first episode of series three, the Burning Issue podcast returns to the waste exports market to discover if 2023’s increase in tonnages would continue
EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Geminor country manager UK Oliver Caunce about being the largest exporter of waste from the UK, how the company got to that position, and how it hopes to stay there as its rivals evolve.
This episode also focuses on:
- 2023’s rise in UK waste exports
- costs have increased for SRF production, driving a swing to RDF
- how to cope with new taxes focused on the biogenic content of baled waste
- will waste management rise up the political agenda?
- Geminor’s involvement in the development of chemical processes for hard-to-recycle plastics
Norway-headquartered Geminor has facilities and offices in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the UK, Germany, Poland, France and Italy, and employs around 100 professionals and experts in total.
The company’s subsidiaries mainly deal with the treatment and handling of refuse-derived fuel and solid-recovered fuel production, as well as processing waste wood, paper, cardboard, plastic, hazardous waste and other streams.
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The Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In the final episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to Christopher Philpot, senior associate at Trowers & Hamlins LLP.
Philpot shines a light on the legal action that has followed several high-profile failures involving gasification-equipped energy-from-waste plants mainly designed to process refuse-derived fuel.
This episode focuses on:
- Why a higher percentage of EfW deals have ended up in court when compared with similar industries
- Challenges waste-gasification plants have faced in getting through commissioning and then meeting contractual outputs.
- Major problems with the systems designed to move fuel through plants into the gasifier
- How to avoid the pitfalls other in the sector have fallen into
- And why you should “love your contracts”
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this eighth episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to Hattie Parke as she takes on a new role as director of climate at the government-owned public-private partnership unit known as Local Partnerships. Parke has experienced the EfW sector before at consultancy Eunomia, which is the secretariat of the RDF Industry Group and is still active in it now.
The episode focuses on:
- Opportunities and problems for the EfW sector as long term PFI deals end
- Why 25 year contracts are “probably” a thing of the past
- What local authorities need to do now to get the best value for taxpayers
- Staying on top of a changing policy environment
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this seventh episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to Marr Contracting managing director Simon Marr , chair of the RDF Industry Group and managing director of Totus Environmental.
The episode focuses on:
- In the UK Marr is bidding on “a lot of work… getting involved in early planning of some major projects”
- More lawyers are involved in EfW contracts, “which is never helpful”
- Using renewable diesel-powered cranes to lower carbon emissions of builds
- Is the UK a graveyard for EPC contractors?
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this sixth episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to Andy Jones, chair of the RDF Industry Group and managing director of Totus Environmental.
The episode focuses on:
- Why there is no reason to ban the legitimate export of waste
- Waste exporters “sympathetic” to the EA’s current plight, but improvements to the TFS process are needed “quickly”
- Could the UK start to import waste?
- Is the UK already over capacity in terms of EfW plants?
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this fifth episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to Tim Rotheray, director of ESG and external affairs at Viridor.
The episode focuses on:
- Forecasting a ban on nitrous oxide and Runcorn’s CCS bid getting backing
- What else the company could be interested in buying after several EfW projects and Norway-based Quantafuel
- Why the Beddington EfW needs to expand as “there's not enough capacity to treat the residual waste generated in the area”
- How interest around in the circular economy, waste, and recycling is “really growing in a very positive way”
- Potential impact of the UK’s Electricity Generator Levy (EGL) on Viridor
- Ramping up Viridor’s first plastic-recycling facility in Avonmouth
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this fourth episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to Selin Murat of Carbon8 on the developing market for carbon capture.
The episode focuses on:
- The UK’s expanding EfW network currently emits about 11Mt/yr of CO2, which is “huge problem to deal with”
- A drive towards utilising residues from EfW is coming both for economic reasons and to reduce the environmental burden on landfill
- A slower economy is an “opportunity rather than a concern” as pushing more funding towards new technologies and clean energy solutions can create “thousands of new jobs and significantly lift economic growth”
- Carbon8 uses a recognized method that sequesters CO2 permanently.
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this third episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to John Ahern of Indaver with a focus on the company’s work in Ireland and its relatively recent expansion into the UK.
The episode focuses on:
- The Rivenhall EfW’s ongoing planning work
- Getting the company’s first UK-based facility operational
- Plans for carbon capture
- Biogas-production remains on the cards if food-waste policies back it
- And why the UK is one of the “good place” to operate in term of planning policies
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this second episode of series two, the Burning Issue speaks to Dr Ella Stengler, the managing director of the Confederation of European Waste-to-Energy Plants (CEWEP).
The trade body is the umbrella association of the operators of energy-from-waste plants, representing about 410 plants from 23 countries. In total, these plants make up more than 80% of Europe’s overall energy recovery capacity.
The episode focuses on:
- Why development of the EU’s Taxonomy and ETS revisions are of concern to EfW plant owners
- The EU landfill directive’s implementation “is very poor in many regions” and needs more ambition from policymakers
- NGOs opposed to CCUS are like NIMBYs against EfW plants
- Why high power prices make EfW-to-hydrogen production less attractive
- And what is was like starting out and being the only woman in high-level meetings
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
This episode also focuses on:
- Scotland was heading for “massive over capacity” by the end of this decade
- No more EfW plants to should be built in the UK after this decade
- Peel should have waited before pulling plans for its plastics-to-hydrogen plant
- EfW plants should be shut or have carbon capture by the 2040s
- And why the EU and UK are right to start moving EfW plant into ETS schemes
For this Christmas special and sixth episode the Burning Issue podcast looks at how a local authority-owned EfW facility has been able to hand back profits to councils at a time of belt tightening in public services
EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to the councillor Clyde Loakes chair of the North London Waste Authority (NLWA) on how its current EfW plant is paying off and how development of its new facility is coming on.
This episode also focuses on:
- How the NLWA was able to hand back £4.8m
- Why landfill is not an option for non-recyclable waste in north London
- How the congested North Circular is the biggest source of air pollution in the area, not a well-regulated and modern EfW plant, which is also developing carbon capture
- Why compulsory recycling needs to come in to support waste separation
- And how 85% of waste could be recycled, but residents and industry need to do more to support local authorities.
This episode was recorded before the government confirmed details of its Electricity Generator Levy and before the tragic news of a worker who died on the site of the new EfW plant’s build.
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
For the fifth episode EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to the MVV’s managing director Paul Carey.
The Podcast is about the people as well as the energy recovery sector and Paul also spoke about his work on Owen’s law (please see https://owens-law.co.uk/) , which he launched with his family after his son’s preventable death from an allergic reaction to restaurant meal.
This episode also focuses on:
- MVV’s plans for EfWs in Medworth, Bournemouth and another one at an undisclosed location
- Why some local authorities are pursuing “a waste of energy solution” to their refuse
- Carbon capture plans with MVV’s Kent-based biomass plant’s neighbour Enfinium
- And why politicians are “running scared of the lobbyists”
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Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
For the fourth episode EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to the United Kingdom Without Incineration Network, better known as UKWIN.
This episode focuses on the other side from the businesses and local authorities which deal with waste and speaks to those opposed to more UK-based energy-from-waste plants
- Whether CCS is the new gasification
- Landfill is bad, but UKWIN say “incineration is worse”
- The ongoing push for an English moratorium on energy recovery
- Does the UK have more operational and under construction capacity then genuinely residual waste to burn?
Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
In this third episode, EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Tidy Planet MD Simon Webb about the market for small-scale EfW plants.
This podcast covers:
- Why Brexit means more waste has to be incinerated from EU-to-UK flights and how small scale plants can help
- “Significant difference” for permitting of small plants that can be done in 6–9 nine months as opposed to up two years for larger facilities
- How smaller EfW plants have benefits over larger facilities to divert waste from landfill
- Small plants can help with the UK’s desperate need for energy
- Wales’ moratorium allows for smaller plants, but not in Scotland where the SWIP system is not used.
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Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
For the second episode EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Andusia director Mark Terrell. This episode focuses on what happens to waste that can be processed for energy recovery in the UK and why there is demand from other facilities in Europe for it.
This podcast covers:
- The future of waste exports
- A look at policy decision in the UK and abroad concerning waste imports and exports
- What the waste sector can do to improve stagnating recycling rates are ever to rise
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Every fortnight the Burning Issue looks at different elements of the energy recovery sector, taking the starting point that while energy recovery has moved some waste out of landfill, where does the sector go from here?
This month for the first episode EWB editor Luke Walsh talks to Suez’s Dr Adam Read about the “new Suez” business, working with an ever changing UK government and why those opposing energy recovery have the “moral high ground”.
This podcast covers:
- Why moratoriums on EfW in Scotland and Wales won’t work as “they're not self-sufficient in the truest sense”
- What the UK’s future capacity looks like and why the sector need to be “totally honest and transparent” about sites that may or may not be built
- How long will it be until UK-based EfW sites are fitted with carbon capture technology
- And why it is consumers and not energy recovery who need to change if stagnating recycling rates are ever to rise
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