Phil is joined by Peter Catapano, of the New York Times, and graphic novelist Jess Ruliffson to discuss Peter's essay on the life and work of cartoonist Gary Leib The Manifesto: Peter Catapano, “I’m Going to Make a Fire”: The Transmogrifications of Gary Leib https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/im-going-to-make-a-fire-the-transmogrifications-of-gary-leib/ The Art: Gary Leib's animation for The Stone https://vimeo.com/148232540 Leib's animations for the Times https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01leib_bio.html Other: Pre-order Peter's forthcoming book, Question Everything https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324091837 Pre-order Jess' forthcoming graphic novel, Invisible Wounds. https://jessruliffson.com/home.html