Financial Fairness Podcast: Recent Episodes
abrdn Financial Fairness Trust
How can we improve financial fairness in the UK? We fund research, campaigning and policy work to tackle financial problems in the UK.
The government has set out new measures to cut benefits and boost employment for disabled people. But will its strategy work? Tom Pollard, Head of Social Policy at the New Economics Foundation and a seasoned commentator joins us to discuss what is proposed and gives his view on whether the measures will be effective.
Mubin speaks to Alison Garnham from Child Poverty Action Group about what can be done to reduce child poverty in the UK. They discuss how child poverty has been reduced in the past and how policy really can reduce child poverty.The Trust has funded the following reports on child poverty:Exploring the lived experiences of childcare for parents on Universal CreditFinancial stress and maternity leaveHow to improve the system for people migrating from legacy benefitsFlexible affordable childcare solutions
Episode 23: Inheritance TaxationMubin speaks to Dan Goss from Demos and David Sturrock from the Institute for Fiscal Studies about their research on inheritance taxation. For more information on inheritance tax you can read the following reports funded by the Trust:Inheritance Tax reliefs: time for reform?Options to repair inheritance taxation in BritainRaising revenue from closing inheritance tax loopholes
Mubin and Carl drill down into what was announced in October’s budget. What does it mean for people's living standards, the British economy, and whether we will see an end to stagnation?The interviewMubin asks Carl Emmerson, Deputy Director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, about the October 2024 Budget.On taxes, the Chancellor raised an extra 40 billion pounds a year. Did she go far enough or did she go too far? And how coherent was it as a tax plan?On fuel duty, it was quite a surprise there was no change. Does Carl think that showed some of the risk averseness that the government has? Carl discusses big tax rises. The Chancellor pledged to no return to austerity. What does this extra tax and borrowing mean for public services?Some departments, like the NHS and overseas aid, are going to be getting 4-5% increases in spending. And that's going to mean a lot less for other departments, particularly given how much the NHS takes up as a percentage of public spending.What's actually happening in terms of growth? What are the changes on employer's National Insurance contributions. Who will be affected and how? Has the government effectively raised taxes on working people? Did the government get it right on the changes made to inheritance tax?Capital gains tax. We saw the rate increase and it was a modest increase. Was that the right level?Will the changes to wealth taxation have any significant impacts on people migrating? Was there really a fiscal black hole of £22 billion?The next fiscal event is going to be the spending review. What are we expecting in relation to that?
With both of the main political parties claiming your pension is not safe with the other, and that they will keep the triple lock, we drill down into what the parties are offering, whether it’s enough for the future and how they will deliver it.For this episode Mubin is joined by David Gauke. David is a British political commentator, solicitor and former politician who was the Member of Parliament for South West Hertfordshire from 2005 to 2019. David has served as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor. He is also a member for the Pensions Review steering group.
As we approach the general election, the political parties will set out their stalls. What will their spending promises be? What might they cut? How will they pay for it all?We speak to Gemma Tetlow about how it all works. What is public spending? How much room is there for change? What are some of the big ticket areas of expenditure?Mubin asks questions about what is driving changes in public spending:To what extent are changes in spending being driven by demographics – for example our aging population, migration?We’ve got some big commitments coming such as the NHS workforce development plan and the childcare commitments. Can you tell us a bit about those and what pressures that’s going to create?Are tax rises inevitable or are tax cuts the answer? What might we see in relation to infrastructure commitments? What are the parties committing to?Is it possible to say what these different approaches mean for living standards?
Guests•Torsten Bell, Resolution Foundation•Clare Moriarty, Citizens AdviceWe discuss how the squeeze on living standards might influence the general election. Guests consider where people are feeling the squeeze, how that has changed over time, and how likely it is to influence the way they vote in the upcoming general election. Mubin asks Claire and Torsten what can be done to improve living standards and they talk about how we could all aim to be a bit more Dutch.Questions include:And what’s driving the stagnation in real incomes?Who’s particularly affected? High inflation has been a key factor in the cost of living crisis, but that’s been tumbling. However, interest rates have been rising. Is the crisis over now?What’s the picture like in countries similar to the UK? Have they been facing the same squeeze on living standards? What measures have the government [and others] brought in to help people weather this period?Will this be the Living Standards election? How concerned are voters by this issue?Where are our political parties promising in relation to living standards? What’s your take on what we’ve been offered. Is it enough? Do we have the money to pay for this? Given the state of the public finances – high debt repayments; tax levels high, but not as high as Europe; existing spending commitments like the NHS workforce plan
What is the state of employment in the UK? How many people are unemployed? Has this gone up or down since the pandemic and is enough being done to get people back into work?Guests•Nita Clarke, Involvement and Participation Association•Tony Wilson, Institute for Employment Studies In this podcast we speak to Nita and Tony about the labour market in the UK. What the post-pandemic labour market recovery has looked like, how the UK is faring compared to other OECD countries and what needs to be done to help people into work.We also ask the experts questions including:Who’s not in paid work and why?And what are the future trends? Is employment growth set to halve? What will an older population mean?What is being done on developing skills and improving the workforce? Where are the political parties offering in relation to improving this provision? How does conditionality work? Does it lead to more people in the workforce? The growth in insecure work. What does this mean in practice and have we seen any recent improvements in employment practice? To what extent can workers, especially those who are low-paid and in insecure work, enforce existing rights? What are the parties proposing to improve rights and reduce insecurity?
Guests: •Arun Advani, University of Warwick•Ian Mulheirn, Resolution FoundationWhat do we mean by wealth? It’s savings and housing but also investments such as shares and crypto-currencies.In this episode, we explore what’s been happening to wealth over the past few decades and how it might affect the next election. Including:Why does the wealth gap and wealth inequalities matter? How important will the issue of wealth be at the next general election? Does wealth taxation come up as an issue in relation to public spending?Have we got the balance right between income taxes and wealth taxes?How can we reduce housing wealth inequality?Tax reliefs and reforms which might help those on lower incomes grow their assets.Why does inheritance tax have so much political salience - and public resistance - when it is paid by such a small fraction of estates? How about an annual or one-off wealth tax? Something you and your colleagues looked at as part of the Wealth Tax Commission – what would that look like and is the concept gaining any traction?Non-dom status. Would the super-rich leave the UK? How much tax do we think it might raise?Might we still see reforms to wealth taxation, even though they aren’t in the manifestos?
Summary Guest: Kate Bell, Assistant General Secretary at the Trades Union Congress.
For many years wages have stagnated, at a time of low inflation people did not feel the hit, but now with prices on all the essentials from pasta to petrol going through the roof workers are feeling the hit. The episode examines the pay gap, and how it has changed over the years, low pay and what can be done to address it.
How do we make pay fair?
Mubin speaks to Kate Bell about pay. What is a fair wage? How has pay changed over time? How do we compare to other countries? And of course, pay is the main factor behind the recent industrial action we have seen across a range of sectors, which we’ll also be touching on.
Questions driving the story
What are the long-term trends relating to pay?
And what impact is this having on living standards? Are there particular groups/populations/sectors affected?
We’ve seen a decline in those on lower to middle incomes getting their fair share – who’s getting more of the share of the pie? And why has that trend occurred? Is this happening globally?
We’re seeing greater reporting by companies in relation to pay ratios and the gender pay gap – is this leading to positive change? Are we seeing more action by shareholders?
What has been the impact of the national living wage? What are some of the gaps the Low Pay Commission still needs to address?
We’ve also seen the living wage movement grow, with some 13,000 employers accredited. What impact has this initiative made?
We often hear it said that higher wages lead to an inflation spiral. How accurate is that?
In this episode we speak to Russell Gunson, Head of Policy and Research at the Robertson Trust, about the Minimum Income Guarantee for Scotland.
The Minimum Income Guarantee may not be a concept many of us are familiar with, it's fairly new and is aiming to improve living standards across the board.
Russell answers questions such as:
What is a Minimum Income Guarantee? How will incomes actually be boosted? What is the combination of activities that are underpinning the Minimum Income Guarantee? How do you set the Minimum Income Guarantee level? Will the Minimum Income Guarantee be different for different groups? Is there a Minimum Income Guarantee in anywhere in the rest of the world? How do we ensure this does not just become about a massively increased social security budget? How would the Minimum Income Guarantee help meet the child poverty targets that the government has set? There is cross party support for a Minimum Income Guarantee, how has government been taking this forward? Will Minimum Income Guarantee replace Universal Credit? How much might a Minimum Income Guarantee cost? How much public support is there for a Minimum Income Guarantee? How does Minimum Income Guarantee differ from a Universal Basic Income?
How to solve the childcare crisisThe government recently announced future changes to childcare which should make it easier for parents to work. We will discuss what those changes are, how they will work and if they go far enough,with Abby Jitendra, from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and Bel Guillaume, from Onward. We ask the following questions: Why does childcare cost so much?Why are childcare workers not paid very well?What government support is available for childcare costs? Why is quality important? What was announced by the government on how support for childcare will change in future in the recent budget? How do we ensure better pay for childcare workers?What's happening on childcare in other countries?The five billion the government is investing, this may not necessarily lead to higher pay, because it's about expanding for amount of provision - isn't there a danger that they may not be able to recruit the necessary workforce for that expansion?Has anyone done any calculation of how many extra workers are needed?And how much of a difference will the government’s changes make to childcare costs? How big an issue is this going to be in the general election?
In this episode we are joined by award-winning money journalist Paul Lewis. He talks to Mubin about his latest book, Money Box. Bearing the same name as the popular Radio 4 programme, which Paul has presented for over two decades, Money Box takes readers through each financial stage of their life. From choosing credit cards and buying your first home, to marriage and will-writing, Money Box has it all covered.Paul discusses people’s experiences of fraud (not-so-fun fact: you are more likely to be defrauded than come across any other crime) and how to prevent falling victim to fraud. He reflects on the cost of living crisis, how people are coping with rising bills and what people are doing to manage their bills. Pensions are also discussed in depth, auto-enrolment, how to ensure you are saving enough for old age and what you can do it you are not.
Mubin talks to Danny about Levelling Up. What is Levelling Up? Why is Britain so unequal? Is Levelling Up working? Danny gives his verdict on all these questions and more.Summary of the discussionWe have huge geographical inequalities across the UK, and that impacts all of us, from our health, living standards, jobs, transport, housing and much more. Levelling Up is the Government’s attempt to try and reduce these gaps, but will it work and why are these inequalities so wide in the UK. Mubin speaks to Danny Dorling, professor of Human Geography at the University of Oxford, who’s written extensively about spatial inequalities. What is levelling up?What it is for the government is an aspiration that the country becomes less divided, isn't the most divided country geographically in all of Europe, and put in practical terms, they're looking at doling out relatively small amounts of money to areas to try to make life less uneven.What are the government’s plans? Well, they've renamed what was the old department for communities and housing, they’ve put the words levelling up into its title. So it's not a new department, it's a rebranding. What's the scale of this money? It's quite large when you put it all together. But it's quite small when you look at the amount that any individual area gets. There are 12 ambitions. Let's have a look at the first one, increasing pay, employment and productivity in all areas of UK, with each one containing a globally competitive city.We've just gone through our biggest reduction of pay since the Napoleonic Wars, bigger than the 1930s, bigger than dozens of all the recessions we’ve had in the last 200 years. So pay has actually dropped in real terms. Employment, apart from large amounts of sickness, we have very, very high rates of employment because you have to work. You can't survive as a single adult on benefits. Productivity is always a bugbear in Britain. But it partly reflects our inequality in pay that somebody has said to be productive if they're paid more. I mean, the second one, raise public investment in research and development outside the southeast by 40%. That's laudable, it's in their power, because a lot of R&D money, particularly for the research councils, is organised by government. But if you look at where the big research centres are, where the centre is looking at gene technology, and so on, it's in London, or Oxford and Cambridge, and outside of there, there is much less, and the amount of spending is so low that raising it by 40% is not necessarily that hard. And we also have some of the lowest research and development spending in all of Europe. So it's, it's from a low base, but, but it's good that they're, recognising this as an issue. Let's go into another one, transport, which is bringing the rest of the country's public transport ‘significantly closer’ - to London standardsIt's about buses. I mean, one problem the government have is that Britain has become remarkably poorer, particularly in the last 12 months, you know, the cost of borrowing is now very, very high. So the kinds of schemes we used to have, you know, new train lines, where HS2 might still happen, but you know, we don't know how far it's going to go. Those schemes become unaffordable. Narrowing the gap of healthy life expectancy between the areas where is lowest and highest. And we've got some massive gaps, not just in terms of life expectancy, but as they highlight here, healthy life expectancy.We've got gaps between neighbourhoods that are 20 years, you can expect to live on average 20 years longer in some of the most affluent local neighbourhoods as opposed to some of the poorest and we haven't had gaps like this since the 1930s. We can actually go back and see that this has happened before, but you have to get to the 30s to see that huge divide.
Guests: Felicia Odamtten, Resolution Foundation, and Steve Webb, former Minister for Pensions.
November 2022
Mubin talks to Felicia and Steve about pensions. How do we make sure we save enough for our pensions? Who has responsibility for making sure people are saving enough, is it government, employers or individuals?
Everything you ever wanted to know about pensions is discussed in this episode, from what the triple lock actually is, to the difference between defined contribution and defined benefit pensions.
Most importantly, we talk about solutions, how can we ensure people have enough in retirement?
How do we eradicate the need for food banks? We are joined by Emma Revie, CEO of the Trussell Trust to discuss food banks.
How do food banks work? What’s driving the increased need for food banks? How can we reduce the need for food banks?
This episode was recorded on Wednesday 27th September
Why are tax cuts going to the highest earners? What does the falling pound mean? How high are interest rates going to go? How are we going to pay for the mini-budget? What does this mean for the cost of living?
In the week when the pound has plunged in value against the dollar, the interest rate the government had to pay on its debt went up, and the Bank of England had to intervene to deal with turmoil on the financial markets, we speak to Alistair Darling, Chair of the abrdn Financial Fairness Trust and former Chancellor about solutions to the cost of living crisis. We had planned this interview some time ago, but recent events in the economy have meant the focus of this episode has changed. Mubin quizzes Alistair on what’s happening right now, as well as longer term cost of living issues.
Alistair gives his frank opinions on the mini-budget, including:
On the OBR not being invited to review the mini-budget: “I can see why they didn't want anyone independent looking at this, because anyone independent would have said, ‘hold on, what on earth is going on here? Who's paying for this?’”
The 45% tax rate cut: “Borrowing money to give people at the top end who don't actually need the money through a tax cut, he [the Chancellor] can't possibly claim that's investment, I think a lot of them will just shove it in the bank.”
“The tax decreases announced last week will disproportionately benefit the super rich, in my view, it is quite wrong to have got rid of the top rate of tax. I believe that if you've got broad shoulders, you’re best placed to meet the cost.”
Who will pay: “We've started on a course, where we don't know how we're going to pay for this giveaway. And I can see all too clearly the risk of the cost falling on the people who are getting precious little at the moment, and who will end up paying for it.”
The ‘tickle-down’ theory: “There's actually very little evidence around which says, if you give people with lots of money, even more money, everybody else benefits from that.”
This short bonus episode discusses the findings of the Financial Fairness Impact Tracker, a regular survey of household finances.
The latest edition of the tracker found that across the UK one-in-six of all households (4.4 million) are now in ‘serious financial difficulties’, compared to one-in-ten (2.8 million) in October 2021 – an additional 1.6 million households.
Mubin speaks to Sharon Collard and Jamie Evans from the Personal Finance Research Centre at the University of Bristol, who carry out the regular analysis of the data, about the trends they are finding.
The tracker is based on a survey we’ve commissioned from YouGov, which examines the finances of nearly six thousand households.
Since the start of the pandemic, we have been working with a team of researchers at Bristol University to track household finances. We wanted to see how people were faring during the turbulent times, and to be able to make policy recommendations based on real-time evidence on what was happening. Something that really surprised us was that there wasn’t a steep decline in financial well-being during the pandemic. Clearly, some people were more affected, especially those excluded from government support, but others saw a boost to their finances. So overall, the numbers in financial difficulty did not significantly rise or fall over the past two years.
However, the latest iteration of the survey shows that things have now taken a sharp downturn. Here with me today are Sharon Collard and Jamie Evans from the Personal Finance Research Centre at the University of Bristol who analyse the results from the financial impact tracker.
Firstly Sharon, can you tell us what you found in the latest survey?
Inflation has sky rocketed, almost daily, headlines outline the difficulties people are encountering in the face of increasing prices. How have we ended up in this situation?
Miatta Fahnbulleh, Chief Executive of the New Economics Foundation, joins Mubin to discuss how inflation got so high.
The UK is facing the most serious cost of living crisis in a generation, but it's those on the lowest incomes who are being hit hardest.
In this episode we look beyond the headlines with Helen Barnard, Director of Research and Policy at Pro Bono Economics and Associate Director of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. Helen is an expert on poverty, inequality and social policy. Her extensive body of written work and regular media contributions have covered poverty, destitution, labour markets, housing and social security.
Mubin and Helen discuss how those on lower incomes are particularly disadvantaged by the cost of living crisis. For more on how the economic system harms people at the bottom, how it was created and how it can be fixed, listen now.
In the UK we have a difficult relationship with gambling. A ‘little flutter on the horses’ or a weekly lotto ticket is a fiercely protected part of our culture. However, policy has not kept up with changes in the gambling industry, particularly the move to online gambling. How do we protect people better from gambling harm?
We speak to Rob Davies, journalist and author of 'Jackpot: How Gambling Conquered Britain' and Matt Zarb-Cousin, campaigner and director of Clean Up Gambling. Mubin talks to them about gambling gets you hooked, how gambling laws have developed and what needs to change.
Problem Gambling
In this episode we explore what gambling is, for example, is cryptocurrency gambling? Trading cryptocurrency isn’t like trading on the stock market, but it’s not traditional gambling either. Rob and Mubin try to unpick the big questions, before getting into the detail of how problem gambling occurs and what can be done about it. Rob explains that when the current gambling laws were introduced, smartphones were not even around. The concept that everyone would have a mini-casino in their back pocket within a decade was alien.
The episode explores the techniques and tricks gambling firms use to get people hooked, looking at research that shows how small changes to games can mean players are more likely to continue to gamble.
Mubin speaks to Matt about his own previous struggles with gambling, and his campaigning to prevent gambling harm. They also discuss GamBan, a product that Matt helped to develop to enable gamblers to control their gambling.
Both guests talk about what government needs to do to protect people from gambling harm and what they hope to see in the upcoming white paper on gambling.
How did we end up with the tax system we have, and how can we make it better? In this episode, we are joined by Paul Johnson from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, one of the UK's leading economists, as we take a look back through the history of taxation. Mubin and Paul discuss everything from Jaffa Cakes to hair powder, as they try to unpick how we’ve ended up with the tax system we have today.
Who is wealthy in today’s Britain? Is wealth fairly distributed? Is wealth fairly taxed? These are some of the questions we are asking in this episode.
Whilst those on lower incomes have found it harder and harder to accumulate savings or assets, people who already have assets such as housing are becoming wealthier. For this episode, we are joined by Torsten Bell from the Resolution Foundation. You may have heard Torsten on the Today Programme, or just about any other news programme, commenting on the fiscal and political issues of the day. We are pleased to have him with us to talk about this important issue, and to be partnering with the Resolution Foundation on a project which looks at wealth in the UK.
About wealth
Wealth has changed in Britain and our tax system has not kept up. The government’s continued focus on taxing workers, who are facing increasing living costs and low wage growth, ignores the ever-increasing (and largely tax-free) value of assets of the wealthy.
We are going to take a closer look at wealth, assets and money. Who has it? Where is the wealth in today’s Britain? Is it fairly distributed and mostly importantly, is it fairly taxed?
Should we be worried about people getting incredibly wealthy? Since the 1980s, wealth in Great Britain has surged from three to nearly seven times our GDP to over seven times. However, tax on wealth has remained flat.
This is not a podcast about increasing taxes. Well, it’s partly about that. But it’s about the complicated picture of wealth in modern Britain. It has changed and the tax system certainly hasn’t kept up.
We look at what it means when inheritance is the only way to become wealthy. If you believe in a society where you should be able to gain wealth through work, it’s not a pretty picture. Where does it leave society when young people can only hope to own a home through inheritance rather than income? What can we do about it? Torsten and Mubin discuss all this, as well as how wealth is measured (fancy curtains don’t cut it), Victorian novels and the merits of camping holidays.
The Wealth Audit
At Financial Fairness we are partnering with Resolution Foundation on a three-year project which looks at wealth in the UK. We produce an annual audit of wealth in the UK and take a deep-dive into areas of wealth where policy change is needed.
It’s not the Sunday Times Rich List, it looks at the whole of the UK population and identifies the wealth of the population as a whole. The make up of the UK economy, how wealth is divided, and the spread of wealth inequality are all covered. This episode touches on the latest findings from the wealth audit, including how the pandemic increased wealth inequality. During the pandemic household wealth for the top 10% increased by £50,000, taking their total wealth to £1.4m per adult. But for the bottom 30% of households it increased by just £86. It’s not just the super-rich who are getting richer.
How did we end up with the social security system we have? How can we make out social security system better? We speak to Alison Garnham, CEO of Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) about social security. Alison has spent many years working as a welfare rights adviser, been a senior lecturer in social policy at the University of North London and has headed up CPAG since 2010 making her ideally placed to take the long view on all things social security.
We speak to Alistair Darling, chair of Financial Fairness and former Chancellor, about the financial response to the Covid-19 pandemic. Discussing the findings of a review of over 200 research reports into the government’s financial handling of the pandemic, Alistair also draws on his own experience and gives his verdict on how well the government handled the financial side of the pandemic.