Notice That: Recent Episodes
Jen Savage and Melissa Sundwall
Why Does EMDR Work? A Dive into Network Neuroscience and the Brain’s Healing Potential
Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) has transformed trauma therapy, but an age-old question lingers: How does it actually work?
For decades, the EMDR community has debated this question. Early theories focused on specific brain structures—the hippocampus for memory, the amygdala for fear, the prefrontal cortex for executive control. This modular perspective helped us make sense of a complex process. But neuroscience has evolved, and so has our understanding.
In Episode 2 of this mini series, Bridger and Jen explore a paradigm shift—from modular to network neuroscience—and how this broader lens reshapes the way we think about trauma, healing, and EMDR.
From Modules to Networks: A Shift in Understanding the Brain
Traditionally, neuroscience taught us that individual brain regions had specific jobs. The amygdala processes fear. The hippocampus handles memory. The prefrontal cortex regulates impulses.
This modular view isn’t wrong—it’s just incomplete.
In reality, the brain functions as a dynamic, interconnected system of networks. Modern neuroscience shows us that even when one area specializes in a task, it does so within a web of relationships. Trauma doesn’t just impact a single region; it disrupts the collaboration between networks.
This is where network neuroscience comes in. Instead of asking which part of the brain?, we ask:
- Which networks are interacting?
- How are they integrating—or failing to integrate—under stress?
- How does EMDR facilitate re-integration?
Meet the Big Three: Core Brain Networks in Trauma and Healing
Research in network neuroscience highlights three large-scale networks that play a crucial role in both trauma and recovery:
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Salience Network (SN)
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Function: Detects and filters what’s important—internal sensations, external stimuli, emotional cues—and decides what deserves attention.
- Trauma Impact: Becomes hypervigilant or shut down, tagging even neutral cues as threats.
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In EMDR: Helps shift between the past (default mode) and present (executive control).
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Default Mode Network (DMN)
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Function: Self-reflection, autobiographical memory, mentalizing (“Who am I? What happened to me?”).
- Trauma Impact: Loops in shame, rumination, and “frozen” identity narratives.
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In EMDR: Holds the story of the traumatic experience and the meanings made from it.
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Central Executive Network (CEN)
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Function: Working memory, decision-making, regulating attention.
- Trauma Impact: Goes offline in overwhelm, leaving clients unable to think clearly or plan.
- In EMDR: Critical for top-down regulation of subcortical processes.
These networks don’t operate in isolation—they’re in constant conversation. Trauma disrupts that conversation, leading to disintegration. Healing requires restoring their collaborative flow.
How EMDR Works in the Brain: Beyond the Protocol
During EMDR, when a traumatic memory is activated (Phase 3) and bilateral stimulation (BLS) is applied, something remarkable happens:
- The SN flags the traumatic memory as salient—“Pay attention. This matters.”
- The DMN pulls up self-referential meaning—“This means I’m unsafe/useless/etc.”
- The CEN is invited back online through dual attention tasks, helping the client hold both the memory and the present moment in awareness.
This isn’t just a mechanical process. It’s a forced redistribution of cognitive resources that breaks the brain out of its trauma-locked loop.
As Bridger explains:
“It’s like unpacking an avalanche—slowly taking out the debris so the mountain can reorganize.”
The goal isn’t just to desensitize distress. It’s to help the networks regain their natural flow—so that the body and mind no longer behave as if the trauma is still happening.
The Role of Working Memory Theory
Working Memory Theory suggests that when we overload the brain’s working memory—by recalling the traumatic memory while engaging in a second task like BLS—the vividness and emotional charge of the memory fade.
This theory helps explain why EMDR works, but it’s not the whole story.
- Strength: Shows how “dual attention” can disrupt trauma loops.
- Limitation: Doesn’t account for why some clients feel worse after sessions or why deeper transformation requires relational safety.
This is why Beyond Healing integrates working memory theory within a larger, network-based, relational perspective.
Why Therapists Should Care About Neuroscience
Some may wonder: Why bother with all this neuroscience? Isn’t it enough to follow the EMDR protocol?
Here’s why it matters:
Understanding networks builds confidence in the method.
It empowers therapists to adjust their interventions with intention.
It helps clinicians see why attunement and resourcing aren’t optional—they’re essential to reintegration.
As Jen reflects in the episode:
“This shifts us from memorizing a protocol to creatively, relationally helping clients heal.”
Key Takeaways for Clinicians
- EMDR works by regulating relationships between the SN, DMN, and CEN.
- BLS is more than eye movements—it’s a physiological regulator.
- Attunement and relational safety are as critical as technical precision.
- Neuroscience doesn’t limit creativity—it expands it. The post EMDR and the Brain’s Networks: A Conversation about Modern Neuroscience first appeared on Notice That.
The post EMDR and the Brain’s Networks: A Conversation about Modern Neuroscience appeared first on Notice That.
EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) has transformed the way clinicians approach trauma. But what exactly makes it so effective? Is it the bilateral stimulation? The eight-phase protocol? Or is there something deeper at play in the brain?
In this blog post, we unpack one of the leading theories behind EMDR’s effectiveness: working memory taxation. Drawing from neuroscience, clinical research, and therapist experience, we explore how EMDR works by engaging specific brain systems and redistributing attention and memory resources. This post is ideal for clinicians, students, and curious learners who want to understand the science behind EMDR in clear, accessible terms.
What is Working Memory, and Why Does It Matter in Trauma Therapy?Working memory is your brain’s ability to hold and manipulate information over short periods of time. It’s the mental workspace where you solve problems, remember a phone number long enough to dial it, or pay attention while taking notes.
In the context of trauma, working memory becomes critical because:
- Traumatic memories often dominate attention.
- When the brain is flooded with fear or shame, it struggles to stay in the present.
- Engaging working memory during trauma recall may disrupt the brain’s typical response pattern.
This is the heart of working memory theory in EMDR: if a client holds a traumatic image in mind while simultaneously completing a working memory task (like tracking a moving object), the emotional vividness of the memory is reduced.
“It’s not just distraction—it’s reconsolidation. You’re using one part of the brain to loosen the grip of another.”
Research supports this. Studies by Van den Hout, Engelhard, and others (2012) show that taxing working memory reduces the emotional intensity and vividness of traumatic memories.
Understanding the Brain: From Modules to NetworksEarly neuroscience often focused on modular thinking:
- Fear = amygdala
- Memory = hippocampus
- Attention = prefrontal cortex
While useful, this model doesn’t explain why trauma affects everything at once.
Enter network neuroscience, a more recent and comprehensive model. Instead of isolated parts, brain functions are distributed across large-scale systems called intrinsic connectivity networks. These networks regulate everything from thought and memory to emotion and attention.
Among the most important are:
- Default Mode Network (DMN) – self-reflection, autobiographical memory
- Salience Network (SN) – threat detection, switching between networks
- Central Executive Network (CEN) – working memory, decision-making
When trauma occurs, these networks lose synchrony. Clients may:
- Loop in shame (DMN)
- Feel hypervigilant or numb (SN)
- Struggle to think clearly (CEN)
What EMDR Is Doing in the BrainDuring EMDR, when a distressing memory is activated:
- The Salience Network (SN) flags it as important.
- The Default Mode Network (DMN) brings up self-referential associations.
- The Central Executive Network (CEN) tries to stay present.
Dual attention tasks, such as bilateral stimulation, tax the CEN, anchoring the client in the present moment. This reduces the cognitive resources available to the DMN, weakening the emotional grip of the memory. Meanwhile, the SN helps orchestrate the shift between past and present.
“The SN becomes the conductor, coordinating two orchestras: past (DMN) and present (CEN).”
Memory Reconsolidation in EMDRNeuroscience shows that memories are not fixed. According to Nader et al. (2000), a memory becomes labile (changeable) when it is reactivated. If, during that reactivation, new information is introduced, the memory can be reconsolidated in a less distressing form.
EMDR leverages this by:
- Activating the memory (DMN)
- Providing a new experience (CEN + therapeutic presence)
- Re-tagging the emotional salience (SN)
It’s not that the memory disappears. It’s that the brain knows how to relate to it differently.
Critiquing Working Memory Theory: What It Gets Right and What It MissesWhat It Gets Right:
- Working memory tasks disrupt trauma memory vividness.
- Bilateral stimulation engages attention and reduces fear.
- Dual-task interference is measurable and repeatable in lab settings.
What It Misses:
- EMDR is not a mechanical task. Relationship matters.
- Trauma isn’t just about intensity—it’s about meaning.
- The SN requires emotional safety to flag experiences as worth integrating.
“The working memory load softens the emotional punch, but it’s the network reconnection—guided by safety and co-regulation—that allows transformation.”
Clinical Takeaways: How to Use This Understanding in Practice When you slow down and attune to your client, you’re helping their Salience Network reclassify experience from threat to meaning. * When you invite parts to speak, you’re engaging DMN + SN. * When you use BLS while grounding*, you’re co-activating CEN + SN.
By working relationally with the client, you’re helping the brain do what it was always meant to do: integrate.
Want More? Episode 2 of the series explores large-scale brain systems and how EMDR creates reconnection across networks. * Upcoming episodes dive into AI-supported EMDR and EMDR 2.0* with Dr. Suzy Matthijssen.
Further Reading: Van den Hout, M., & Engelhard, I. (2012). How does EMDR work? Journal of Experimental Psychopathology. * Nader, K., Schafe, G. E., & LeDoux, J. E. (2000). Fear memories require protein synthesis in the amygdala for reconsolidation after retrieval. Nature. * Chamberlin, E. (2019). The Network Balance Model of Trauma and Resolution. * Siegel, D. J. (2020). The Developing Mind: How Relationships and the Brain Interact to Shape Who We Are.*
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Why Does EMDR Work? Exploring Working Memory, Bilateral Stimulation, and the Science of Change first appeared on Notice That.
The post Why Does EMDR Work? Exploring Working Memory, Bilateral Stimulation, and the Science of Change appeared first on Notice That.
Human First: A Conversation with The EMDR Coach, Dana Carretta SteinWhat If the Therapist Was the Most Powerful Intervention in EMDR?
Reclaiming the Human Thread in Trauma Therapy
In the world of EMDR therapy, conversations about techniques, protocols, and procedures often dominate the training space. But what if something even more powerful has been quietly present all along? What if the most transformative tool in EMDR isn’t the protocol—it’s the presence of the therapist?
In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, we sat down with Dana Carretta Stein—EMDR therapist, consultant, and creator of @the_emdr_coach—to talk about something we believe is foundational but too often overlooked: the humanness of the therapist.
What started as a conversation about social media quickly became a deep dive into identity, presence, and the profound responsibility we carry as healing professionals. Together, we explored the tension between objectivity and authenticity, protocol and personhood—and how returning to our full humanity may be the very thing that deepens healing for everyone in the room.
The Therapist Is Not a Blank Slate
Why Authenticity Isn’t a Liability
From the earliest days of graduate training, many of us were taught to strive for neutrality. Keep your personal life out of the room. Don’t display family photos. Don’t self-disclose. Don’t “do therapy on your friends.” While some of this advice is meant to protect boundaries, it also sends a subtler message: your full self does not belong here.
Dana, a deeply relational therapist and group practice owner, pushes back on that message with both clarity and warmth. She shares openly about the exhaustion of compartmentalization and the healing power of being “unavoidably authentic” in the therapy room.
“Clients don’t need a perfect therapist,” Dana reminds us. “They need a human one.”
This doesn’t mean we flood the space with our stories or blur boundaries. It means we let ourselves be present—not as clinical instruments, but as nervous systems, as parents, as people with real emotions, histories, and insight.
Intersubjectivity Is Powerful—And Necessary
Relational Healing Requires a Relational Presence
One of the core themes of this episode is the reclaiming of intersubjectivity—the idea that therapy is not just something we do to a client, but something we co-create with them. The standard EMDR model often emphasizes staying out of the way, trusting the protocol, and avoiding contamination of the client’s process.
But what happens when we over-apply that detachment? What do we lose when we forget that transformation often happens between us, not just within them?
We explore this together by naming what we see in our own work:
- Therapists who dissociate behind the script
- Clients who learn to “perform” EMDR without truly connecting
- Sessions that feel technically correct but relationally sterile
Instead, we offer a vision of EMDR that is alive with presence. One where therapist and client are both brave enough to be real.
Countertransference Isn’t the Problem—Disconnection Is
Why Your “Stuff” Belongs in the Room (with Reflection)
Dana names something many of us intuitively feel but rarely say: the therapist’s unresolved material will show up in the work. The question is not whether it appears, but whether we recognize it, reflect on it, and take care of it somewhere outside the session.
In this episode, we talk about the difference between:
- Reflexive self-disclosure and intentional vulnerability
- Hidden agendas and clean attunement
- Transference reenactments and relational repair
Bridger names this beautifully: “What brought us into this field is often the same strategy we re-enact during the work itself.” Without awareness, this strategy can hijack the process. But with reflection, it becomes a strength—a superpower, as Dana says.
Human First, Then Therapist
Why Presence Is the Foundation of Conceptualization
When Dana trains therapists in her practice, she begins with one simple phrase:
“Human first. Then be a therapist.”
This isn’t just good advice for preventing burnout. It’s a core principle of case conceptualization. The more connected we are to our own internal world, the more intuitively and compassionately we can understand our clients.
From this lens, the therapist’s body isn’t a neutral container—it’s an instrument of resonance.
The therapeutic relationship isn’t a backdrop—it’s the medium through which healing travels.
This conversation reaffirms what many therapists long to hear:
You are not too much. Your humanness is not in the way. It is the way.
Want to Go Deeper?
If this conversation sparked something in you—if you’ve ever felt unsure how to bring your full self into EMDR therapy, or if you’re craving a framework that honors both person and protocol—we’d love to invite you into further learning:
The SIP Training
Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) is our signature approach to relational, neurodevelopmentally-informed EMDR therapy. It helps therapists move beyond rigid techniques into real-time attunement, case conceptualization, and presence.
If you want to understand what’s really happening in the space between you and your client—and how to work with it—this training is for you.
EMDR Certification Program
Already trained in EMDR but feeling stuck in the structure? Our certification program is a mentorship-rich, community-based path to reclaiming your confidence and creativity as an EMDR therapist.
We focus on real-world application, reflective consultation, and helping you become the therapist you were always meant to be.
Free Resource: Exploring Your Humanness in Therapy
Want to start now? Comment the word “mirror” on any of our social media posts and we’ll send you a free download of our chapter:A Window and a Mirror: Somatic Integration and Processing for Case Conceptualization. It’s a practical, reflective guide to help you see how your own story shows up in the therapy room—and how to make it your greatest asset.
Takeaways for Your Practice
Here are a few questions to carry with you this week:
- What parts of yourself feel most at home in the therapy room? Which ones still feel left out?
- How does your own nervous system shape the intersubjective field?
- Are you hiding behind the protocol—or letting it support your presence?
- What would change if you trusted your intuition just a little more?
The relational thread of therapy is not a liability to manage—it’s the fabric that holds the work together. When we remember this, the work becomes less about what we do, and more about who we are when we do it.
Let’s keep walking that path. Together.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Human First: A Conversation with Dana Carretta Stein first appeared on Notice That.
The post Human First: A Conversation with Dana Carretta Stein appeared first on Notice That.
“To be a culturally competent therapist is to be a human first—curious, aware, humble, and willing to grow.”
In this powerful episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Jen Savage sits down with EMDR therapist, author, and cultural competence advocate Mark Nickerson, LICSW for a rich and timely conversation about what it really means to bring cultural responsiveness into our clinical work.
This episode invites clinicians to think beyond checkboxes and intake forms—and to reflect on how their personal stories, social identities, and cultural histories shape the therapy they provide. Together, Jen and Mark explore how EMDR can help process both internalized oppression and social bias, and how the work of healing requires an ongoing willingness to look inward.
“Cultural humility isn’t an add-on—it’s at the heart of any real change.”
— Mark Nickerson, LICSW
Why This Conversation MattersTherapists often long to be affirming, inclusive, and aware—but aren’t sure where to begin. Mark’s insights offer both practical steps and deep philosophical grounding. His perspective is shaped by decades of clinical work, social advocacy, and a commitment to human rights.
He shares stories from early workshops where EMDR was used to process two core themes:
- A memory of being excluded or discriminated against
- A memory of holding bias or participating in exclusion
In both cases, EMDR offered clarity, healing, and increased self-awareness—making space for deeper empathy and greater readiness to grow.
Featured Topics:* What it means to do your own cultural work as a therapist * How identity, privilege, and power dynamics shape the therapy process * Using EMDR to target internalized oppression and social bias * Legacy trauma, intergenerational pain, and cultural narratives * How cultural humility invites us into lifelong self-examination * Why EMDR is well-suited to address culturally based trauma—when practiced with awareness
About the BookMark is the editor and contributing author of the seminal book
Cultural Competence and Healing Culturally Based Trauma with EMDR Therapy (2nd ed., 2023).
Spanning more than 400 pages, the book includes seven chapters by Mark and 20 more by authors with diverse identities, backgrounds, and clinical expertise. It addresses racial trauma, immigration and asylum seeking, social class, systemic oppression, and cultural adaptations of EMDR around the world.
Whether you read it cover-to-cover or use it as a chapter-by-chapter resource, it’s an essential tool for therapists seeking to deepen their work.
Learn more about the book and Mark’s work at: markinickerson.com
Want to Go Even Deeper?If this conversation stirred something in you—if you’re beginning to ask how your own story shows up in the therapy room—consider exploring the Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) framework.
SIP isn’t a replacement for EMDR. It’s a lens that helps therapists explore the worldview they bring into their work. It asks:
- Why do I respond this way in session?
- What does safety mean to me?
- What am I unconsciously avoiding?
SIP helps therapists do their own work—by mapping how our nervous systems, identities, and histories shape our therapeutic presence.
Want to explore it for yourself?
Comment “mirror” on our Instagram page or visit connectbeyondhealing.com and search “SIP” to receive a free PDF chapter on the SIP model.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR, Cultural Humility, and Doing Your Own Work: Conversation with Mark Nickerson first appeared on Notice That.
The post EMDR, Cultural Humility, and Doing Your Own Work: Conversation with Mark Nickerson appeared first on Notice That.
Is EMDR Too Insular?: A Conversation with Derek FarrellWhat happens when a visionary academic, a few decades of lived EMDR experience, and a global perspective meet a pair of U.S.-based EMDR trainers hungry for evolution?
You get a conversation that challenges everything we take for granted about training, research, and the future of trauma therapy.
In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, we had the immense honor of sitting down with Dr. Derek Farrell—clinical psychologist, international EMDR leader, Trauma Aid Europe president, and editor of the forthcoming Oxford Handbook of EMDR. His voice is rare in our community: one that spans the trenches of EMDR practice, the architecture of academic programs, and the politics of international research.
And he’s not afraid to say what others only whisper.
“EMDR is very, very good at talking to itself,” Farrell told us. “But it would be very useful to be more friendly with other organizations.”
Farrell sees the echo chamber. He names the structural gaps. And he points toward the opportunities we’re missing if we don’t open up.
The Missed Opportunities of a Siloed ModelSince his first training with Francine Shapiro in the 1990s, Farrell has witnessed the evolution of EMDR from fringe to globally recognized treatment. But he’s also watched how the field’s franchise-style model has limited its ability to join the larger scientific conversation.
“If you look at the ISTSS annual conference, how many papers are based on EMDR? Very few,” he noted. “And that’s a missed opportunity, because they’re one of the major political players in informing health policy.”
Farrell urges the EMDR community to step out of self-reinforcing training cycles and into more robust, interdisciplinary partnerships—particularly with academic institutions and trauma researchers in CBT and related fields.
“We have to stop being so insular. If we don’t, we’ll lose space to something else. The future won’t be in our hands—it’ll move on.”
The Case for Academic IntegrationFarrell isn’t calling for the abolition of professional trainings—but he’s asking us to see their limits. Especially in countries where trauma prevalence is high and mental health infrastructure is limited, the standard credentialing pipeline simply isn’t realistic—or ethical.
“You can’t make decisions in first-world economies about how third-world health systems should deliver care,” he said, referencing his trauma capacity work in Iraq. “They don’t have 10 years to wait for an indigenous EMDR trainer.”
In one particularly poignant story, Farrell described how a UK university removed EMDR from its trauma curriculum entirely because their two course leaders—both widely published psychologists—weren’t credentialed EMDR trainers. The credentialing system, he argued, had failed the field.
“That would’ve been an amazing opportunity to bring EMDR into mainstream trauma psychology. And we missed it.”
Credentialing Is Not the Enemy—But It Can’t Be the Only PathDespite his critiques, Farrell is no enemy of credentialing. In fact, he sees it as critical for clinician protection and client safety.
“If a client is choosing between two EMDR therapists—one credentialed and one not—they will always choose the credentialed one,” he said. “And they should.”
But he’s clear: our current model doesn’t serve the spectrum of learners, educators, and clients. We need both professional and academic pathways. We need to distinguish between basic attendance and demonstrated competence. And we need to stop pretending that a seven-day training is equivalent to a psychotherapy education.
“The contradiction is we call it a basic training, but we also say EMDR is a powerful therapy,” he told us. “Those two things don’t go together.”
What About the Protocol? Isn’t That Enough?In the trenches, EMDR therapists often cling to the eight-phase protocol as a kind of life raft. But Farrell challenged us to see it differently.
“The protocol is highly forgiving,” he said. “We miss bits out, we forget the VOC or the negative cognition, and the client still processes. That’s the magic of it. But we need to teach people not just the steps—but why and how to break the rules wisely.”
Farrell encourages trainers and educators to move beyond memorization and into meaning—especially when the bulk of clients are not single-incident trauma survivors.
“We’re teaching to a model that doesn’t reflect the reality of most people’s caseloads,” he said. “It’s no wonder there’s burnout and drop-out after level one.”
So… Where Do We Go From Here?Farrell’s parting thoughts were both sobering and deeply hopeful.
“We need to get the AIP model into undergrad. Into graduate programs. Into social work and psychology and counseling degrees. Because when students understand that model, EMDR is no longer a leap. It’s a natural next step.”
He’s also spearheading a massive academic effort to support that very integration: The Oxford Handbook of EMDR, set to release later this year.
“We’ve built it as a robust, evidence-based academic text,” he shared. “Forty-five chapters. Past, present, and future. It will be the most definitive handbook we’ve had.”
Farrell’s message to the EMDR community? The time is now. To break out of silos. To let go of professional tribalism. To prioritize accessibility and integrity over exclusivity.
“Francine always said the future is in our hands. But if we’re not careful, it won’t be.”
The post Is EMDR Too Insular?: A Conversation with Derek Farrell first appeared on Notice That.
The post Is EMDR Too Insular?: A Conversation with Derek Farrell appeared first on Notice That.
What if EMDR Was a Truly Somatic Therapy?In the world of EMDR therapy, conversations about somatics are becoming more and more common. But what if somatics wasn’t just a helpful layer to add onto EMDR? What if it was the foundation? What if we could reimagine EMDR as a truly somatic therapy—one that centers the body as the primary source of healing, rather than just another variable to account for?
In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Melissa, Bridger, and Jen gathered to reflect on their first EMDR Basic Training as trainers through Beyond Healing Institute—and to introduce a new series that dares to ask big, paradigm-shifting questions about the nature of trauma and the future of EMDR.
Launching Something New: The First Beyond Healing EMDR Training
After two years of planning and waiting for approval, the team finally launched their EMDR Basic Training—and it exceeded expectations. What struck them most was how natural the experience felt. The structure of the training emphasized spaciousness, human connection, and honoring the therapist as a vital part of the therapeutic process. Participants left not just informed, but embodied—ready to bring the work into their practice with confidence and clarity.
For Melissa, this experience prompted deeper questions about the nature of EMDR itself—questions that have been simmering for years: What would it mean to practice EMDR from a truly somatic orientation? What would change if we made the body—not the memory—the primary focus?
Trauma as the Disallowance of Natural Expression
One of the core ideas introduced in this episode is a somatic definition of trauma:
Trauma is a moment when the body is disallowed its natural response.
Whether through physical restraint, anesthesia, shaming, fear, or relational danger, the body’s innate need to express gets halted. What remains is energy that no longer has a context—a charge without a story. That disoriented energy gets stored in the body and, over time, leads to patterns of dissociation, confusion, and eventually depression.
From this lens, trauma work is about recontextualizing that energy—giving it back its story—and then addressing the fear (or phobia) that originally caused it to be repressed. Healing, then, becomes about both remembering and reclaiming what the body lost access to.
Suppression, Repression, and Depression: A Somatic Venn Diagram
The team explored the difference between suppression and repression, noting that these terms are often used interchangeably but reflect very different processes. Suppression is a conscious decision to hold something back—functional, temporary, and often socially necessary. Repression, on the other hand, is unconscious and usually the result of overwhelming trauma.
Chronic repression, over time, often leads to depression—what Melissa described as a loss of access to the body’s vital energy. This devitalization shows up as apathy, confusion, loss of identity, and disconnection from wants, needs, and affect. The work of trauma healing becomes a process of revitalization—not just regulation.
Moving Beyond Regulation
One of the major themes of this episode is the critique of the current cultural obsession with “nervous system regulation.” While regulation is a helpful part of the process, it is far from the whole picture. Melissa invites us to ask:
Why are we so afraid of activation? Why do we associate calmness with healing, and intensity with danger?
From a somatic lens, regulation is not about minimizing activation—it’s about supporting the body in accurately responding to the environment. That means we need to move beyond the dichotomy of regulated = good and dysregulated = bad. Sometimes, yelling, shaking, crying, or expressing intense emotion is the most accurate and necessary response a body can have.
Rewriting the Protocol: Why EMDR Isn’t Somatic (Yet)
Despite its growing popularity, EMDR in its standard form is not a somatic therapy. As Melissa puts it bluntly:
“The only thing somatic about the standard protocol is one question: ‘Where do you feel that in your body?’”
Even the body scan at the end of Phase 6 is often used to check if the client is “done,” rather than to deeply listen to the body’s story. Somatics, in its truest form, isn’t about control or compliance. It’s about contact. Real, honest, present-moment contact with the body as it is—not as we want it to be.
The team explored how preparation in somatically-focused EMDR would look radically different. Rather than beginning with calmness and containment, it might begin with something more raw and real:
“Welcome to your body. How does it feel to be here? What sensations do you notice? Can you feel your aliveness?”
Preparing the Body for Healing
In this series, the team will continue to explore how trauma healing changes when we lead with the body. Upcoming episodes will dive into:
- The concept of affect phobia—why we’re so afraid of feeling, and how to titrate our way back into sensation.
- The somatic preparation phase—how to support clients in making safe, loving contact with their bodies before jumping into memory work.
- The reclamation of sensation and affect—how we guide clients back into vitality in ways that feel empowering, not destabilizing.
And most importantly: how to do all of this without losing the humanity, play, and relational connection that makes healing possible
Want to Learn More?
If this episode sparked something in you—whether a question, a memory, or a deep resonance—we want to invite you into further learning. Beyond Healing Institute’s EMDR Basic Training is infused with this somatic lens, and there are three opportunities to join us in 2025:
May 15–17 | Springfield, Missouri (Live + Zoom)
August 7–9 | Springfield, Missouri (Live + Zoom)
November 13–15 | Springfield, Missouri (Live + Zoom)
You can learn more and register at connectbeyondhealing.com
Takeaways for Your Practice
Here are a few reflections you might carry with you into your clinical work:
- Reconsider what it means to “regulate.” Is calmness the goal—or is presence?
- Invite the body into the process—not as a data point, but as a guide.
- Be curious about what was disallowed. What energy, affect, or expression was blocked—and why?
- Give clients permission to rediscover themselves. Vitality can be confusing at first. Let there be room for exploration, play, and gentle messiness.
The somatic turn in EMDR isn’t a rejection of the protocol—it’s a reimagining of what’s possible when we bring the whole human into the room. Including ourselves.
What stood out to you from this conversation? How are you thinking about trauma, the body, and EMDR differently? Drop a comment or reach out—we’d love to keep this dialogue going.
The post What if EMDR Was a Truly Somatic Therapy? first appeared on Notice That.
The post What if EMDR Was a Truly Somatic Therapy? appeared first on Notice That.
In the world of EMDR therapy, it’s easy to get caught up in technique—perfecting protocols, refining scripts, and ensuring procedural accuracy. But what happens when we step beyond protocol and start seeing the therapeutic process as an intersubjective experience—one that includes not just our clients but ourselves as well?
In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, we had the opportunity to sit down with Jenniffer Wellerwhite, LCSW, and Nicole Deems, LMFT, both clinicians and EMDR consultants who have been immersed in the work of Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) for several years. Their journey through EMDR, SIP, and case conceptualization offers a powerful insight into how these frameworks can revolutionize the way we think about therapy—not just for our clients, but for our own growth and development as therapists.
Case Conceptualization: More Than Treatment PlanningOne of the core themes of this conversation was rethinking case conceptualization. Traditionally, case conceptualization has been viewed as a tool for treatment planning—a structured way to organize symptoms, identify target memories, and plan interventions. But Jenniffer and Nicole emphasize that it’s so much more than that.
“Case conceptualization is not just about treatment planning—it’s about every facet of the therapeutic process, including our own professional development.”
At its core, case conceptualization is about making meaning—understanding how a client’s strategies, symptoms, and relational patterns are expressions of their life experiences. SIP provides a language and framework for recognizing these patterns in a way that humanizes them rather than reducing them to clinical formulations.
Instead of seeing symptoms as pathology, SIP invites us to view them as adaptive strategies—deeply ingrained responses that once served a purpose. When we shift from problem-solving mode to meaning-making mode, we create space for clients to understand themselves in a new and profoundly validating way.
The Language of Strategy: Reframing “Symptoms”A major takeaway from this discussion was the importance of language in therapy. Words shape perception. The way we describe a client’s experiences directly impacts how they interpret themselves.
Jenniffer and Nicole shared how SIP has changed the way they talk about “triggers” and “maladaptive behaviors”—terms that can sometimes feel pathologizing. Instead, they use the word “strategy.”
“Being able to neutralize language around being ‘triggered’ and instead frame it as a strategy is incredibly softening for clients. It shifts the focus from ‘something is wrong with me’ to ‘this is how I learned to survive.’”
This subtle shift can be transformative. When a client moves from feeling shame about their symptoms to seeing them as intelligent, adaptive responses to past experiences, they can begin to approach their healing with compassion instead of self-judgment.
Even more powerful? When clients themselves adopt this language.
“I love when clients start using the word ‘strategy’ themselves—when they say things like, ‘Oh, I think this is just my system’s strategy to keep me safe.’ That’s when you know a shift is happening.”
The Intersubjective Space: Healing Through RelationshipA core principle of SIP is the intersubjective space—the relational field between therapist and client where healing occurs.
In traditional EMDR, the therapist’s role is often viewed as directive: administering the protocol, tracking the client’s responses, and moving them through the phases of treatment. While this structure is necessary, Jenniffer and Nicole spoke to the depth that is added when we integrate the relational component.
“At first, EMDR felt too prescriptive to me. When I found SIP, I realized it was giving language to what I was already doing—bringing in the human, relational, and nuanced aspects of therapy.”
When we understand the intersubjective space, we become aware of what’s happening between us and our clients in real time—the subtle shifts, the unspoken communication, the moments of connection or disconnection. Instead of simply “delivering” EMDR, we learn to co-create the experience with our clients.
This is especially important when working with complex trauma, where the wound itself is often relational. Healing doesn’t come from following a script—it comes from the experience of being truly seen and understood.
“Disconfirming experiences happen in the intersubjective space. Clients don’t just hear new information—they feel something different in the relationship with us, and that’s what changes them.”
Building Community Through Shared LanguageOne of the most exciting aspects of SIP isn’t just its impact on client work—it’s how it has helped build a professional community.
Jenniffer and Nicole shared how their shared language has transformed the way they collaborate—from peer supervision to case consultation to even co-facilitating trainings.
“We can reduce barriers in our field by building shared language. Even if our sessions look different, we can come together with the same foundational understanding.”
This vision has led them to expand SIP training in South Carolina, where they are working to bring together clinicians who want to connect through this framework and build ongoing consultation communities.
Takeaways for Your PracticeSo, what can you take from this conversation and start using in your own work?
- Reframe symptoms as strategies – Instead of seeing client behaviors as “problems,” recognize them as adaptive strategies that have helped them survive.
- Use shared language to enhance therapy – Introduce terms like strategy, intersubjective space, and system activation to help clients better understand their experiences.
- Recognize the role of relationship in EMDR – Protocols are important, but healing happens in the relational space. Stay attuned to what’s unfolding between you and your client.
- Build community around case conceptualization – Having a shared framework makes consultation richer, deepens professional relationships, and combats burnout.
Upcoming Opportunities to Learn MoreIf this resonates with you, there are some exciting opportunities to engage further:
EMDR Canada Conference (March 2025 – Vancouver, BC)We’re thrilled to be presenting Breaking the Relational Enactment: Mapping the Cycle of Repression, where we’ll explore how unconscious cycles keep clients stuck and how we can interrupt these patterns in EMDR therapy.
SIP Training in South Carolina (May 2025 – Hybrid Option Available)Jenniffer and Nicole are hosting an in-person SIP Level 1 Training, where you can dive deep into this framework and connect with a growing community of therapists integrating these concepts.
EMDRIA Conference Proposal (Fall 2025 – Pending Approval!)We’ve submitted our proposal for Enactment-Focused EMDR: Targeting the Space Between Attachment Wounds. This presentation will focus on how attachment wounds shape enactments in therapy and how EMDR can be used to target the space between those wounds, helping clients break free from unconscious relational patterns.
If you’re interested in learning more about these trainings, upcoming events, or getting involved in consultation, check out Beyond Healing Institute.
SIP, EMDR, and case conceptualization are more than clinical tools—they are invitations into deeper understanding, connection, and transformation. Whether you’re a new therapist or a seasoned clinician, there is always room to refine the way we make meaning of our work.
What are your takeaways from this? How has case conceptualization shaped your clinical journey? Drop a comment and let’s keep the conversation going!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Beyond Protocol: EMDR, Case Conceptualization, and the Power of Shared Language first appeared on Notice That.
The post Beyond Protocol: EMDR, Case Conceptualization, and the Power of Shared Language appeared first on Notice That.
Somatic Experiencing and EMDR: Interview with Amanda Johnson and Rachel CagleBridging EMDR and Somatic Experiencing: A Conversation with Amanda Johnson & Rachel Cagle
Curious about how EMDR and Somatic Experiencing can work together? In this episode of Notice That, we explore the integration of these two modalities, the challenges and rewards of blending them, and how they can enhance trauma therapy. Tune in to hear Amanda Johnson and Rachel Cagle share their insights and experiences with Jen.
Listen to the Full Episode: Somatic Experiencing and EMDR: Interview with Amanda Johnson and Rachel Cagle
Why Blend EMDR and Somatic Experiencing?
Many trauma therapists are trained in both EMDR and SE but struggle with how to integrate them effectively. EMDR provides a structured, protocol-driven approach to trauma reprocessing, while SE is a more fluid, intuitive method focused on tracking bodily sensations and releasing stored survival energy. Despite their differences, these modalities share a common goal: helping clients process trauma in a way that feels safe and regulated for their nervous system.
Our guests, Amanda Johnson, LCSW, and Rachel Cagle, LPC, share their journeys into both EMDR and SE and how they’ve learned to blend them in practice.
Amanda: “I had a profound personal experience with a therapist who integrated EMDR and somatic work. That moment changed everything for me—I realized there was so much more happening in my body than I had been aware of.”
Rachel: “Talk therapy alone felt like it was missing something. When I started receiving somatic therapy as a client, it shifted something internally for me. I knew I wanted to bring that into my work with clients.”
Where EMDR and SE Complement Each Other
Throughout the episode, Amanda and Rachel highlight specific ways that SE can enhance EMDR, particularly for clients who struggle with embodiment.
Pendulation and Titration: SE emphasizes moving between activation and regulation, mirroring EMDR’s use of dual attention and calm place resourcing. “In SE, we learn to gently introduce activation, pendulate back to safety, and slowly build the nervous system’s capacity for intensity,” Rachel explains.
Tracking the Body’s Cues: EMDR often includes body scans, but SE provides a deeper framework for understanding bodily signals. Amanda describes how SE helps her notice micro-movements in clients—like subtle shifts in breath or posture—that offer valuable information for the healing process.
Expanding Affect Tolerance Before Reprocessing: One of the biggest mistakes therapists make in EMDR is pushing into reprocessing before a client has the affect tolerance to stay with activation. SE teaches clinicians how to gradually increase that tolerance, making EMDR more effective. “If a system doesn’t yet know how to process and release activation, it’s too early for trauma processing,” Amanda explains.
Challenges in Integration
Despite their synergy, integrating these approaches can be tricky. Amanda shares a formative experience early in her training where she presented an EMDR case at a Peter Levine case consultation.
Amanda: “I had just finished my EMDR training and had worked with a client using a single-episode trauma approach. When I described this in the consultation, I felt like I had made a huge mistake—like EMDR wasn’t supposed to be used for this client’s complex trauma history. That moment really threw me. I actually put EMDR on the shelf for a while because I wasn’t sure how to reconcile the two approaches.”
For Rachel, the challenge has been introducing SE concepts to long-term EMDR clients.
Rachel: “With newer clients, I can naturally integrate both approaches from the beginning, but with established clients, I sometimes have to introduce SE more explicitly. It can feel like I’m asking them to do something totally different, and that takes some adjusting.”
Do Therapists Need Formal SE Training to Work Somatically?
If you’re an EMDR therapist who wants to bring in more somatic awareness but isn’t sure if full SE training is the right path, Amanda and Rachel suggest exploring:
Polyvagal Theory: Learning about nervous system states can significantly enhance your EMDR work.
Shorter Somatic Trainings: Many organizations offer introductory somatic courses that are less intensive than full SE certification.
Personal Somatic Work: One of the best ways to integrate somatics into your practice is to experience it yourself. “If we’re asking our clients to engage with their bodies in this way, we should be doing that work, too,” Amanda emphasizes.
Final Thoughts: An Ongoing Integration
Blending EMDR and SE isn’t about choosing one over the other—it’s about allowing both to influence the way we show up with clients. As Amanda puts it:
“EMDR gave me the coloring book—the structure and framework—but SE taught me how to color outside the lines in a way that makes sense for each client.”
For therapists who feel torn between structured and fluid approaches, Rachel offers this encouragement:
“Everything doesn’t have to fit neatly into a model. The best therapy is relational, responsive, and flexible. Give yourself permission to integrate what works for you.”
Connect with Amanda & Rachel
If you’re interested in learning more about integrating EMDR and SE, Amanda and Rachel both offer consultation:
Amanda Johnson, LCSW – amandajohnsonlcsw.com
Rachel Cagle, LPC – Connect via Beyond Healing
What are your thoughts on blending EMDR and SE? Have you tried integrating somatic approaches into your trauma work? Let us know in the comments below!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Somatic Experiencing and EMDR: Interview with Amanda Johnson and Rachel Cagle first appeared on Notice That.
The post Somatic Experiencing and EMDR: Interview with Amanda Johnson and Rachel Cagle appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger sit down with Kristine Mark-Griffin for a discussion on working with children using EMDR. Christine is the founder of EMDR for Kids. She is an EMDRIA approved Consultant & advanced trainer. She is the author of the award winning EMDR Workbook for Kids and is the lead trainer at EMDR for Kids. Christine’s professional experience has included working in non-profit, child welfare, juvenile justice, community mental health, school-based mental health and higher education settings. Working in these various settings over the years has deepened her knowledge and understanding of complex trauma but has also exposed her to some of the most beautiful stories of healing and resilience. Christine is also a perinatal mental health certified therapist and loves working with expecting and new mamas! She provides a variety of EMDR consultation services & training and welcomes EMDR clinicians to join her offerings below!
If you are a therapist who is interested in working towards EMDR certification or becoming a Consultant-in-training (CIT) with Christine, please complete the
All EMDR therapists are welcome to join monthly drop-in EMDR consultation groups.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR with Kids: Interview with Christine Mark-Griffin first appeared on Notice That.
The post EMDR with Kids: Interview with Christine Mark-Griffin appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen, Melissa, and Bridger talk about their relationship over the past five years in starting Beyond Healing and embracing authenticity and humanness through it all.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Beyond is Evolving!: Shifts and Refocusing first appeared on Notice That.
The post Beyond is Evolving!: Shifts and Refocusing appeared first on Notice That.
Happy New Year! Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger talk about some super exciting things coming in 2025 including a new podcast setup, conference presentations, a new EMDR Basic Training, and so much more!
The post Happy New Year! first appeared on Notice That.
The post Happy New Year! appeared first on Notice That.
In this exciting episode, we sit down with Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel, the creators of Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy. Combining the transformative power of EMDR with the therapeutic benefits of ketamine, this innovative modality is expanding the possibilities for trauma healing and mental wellness.
Danielle and Michele, co-founders of the Ketamine-Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute, share insights into the neurobiology behind this approach, the development of their EMDRIA-approved advanced training, and the results of their 2024 pilot study demonstrating significant reductions in PTSD symptoms.
Tune in to explore:
- How Ketamine-Assisted EMDR was developed.
- The unique synergy between EMDR and ketamine therapy.
- Key considerations for clinicians interested in integrating this modality into their practice.
Whether you’re an EMDR therapist or someone passionate about cutting-edge trauma therapies, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won’t want to miss.
Learn more about their work at ketamineassistedemdr.com.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy: Interview with Danielle Ciccone & Michele Topel first appeared on Notice That.
The post Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy: Interview with Danielle Ciccone & Michele Topel appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger’s conversation with Sandra Paulsen. Yes, THE Sandra Paulsen. The author of some of your favorite books for trauma related dissociation treatment and several popular EMDR texts. Some of her work includes When There Are no Words, Looking Through the Eyes of Trauma and Dissociation, Neurobiology and Treatment of Traumatic Dissociation, and her most recent works, We’re Listening Body, and Indigenous Trauma and Dissociation. — For those of you who don’t know Sandra, she is a clinical and consulting psychologist who has used EMDR and ego state therapy to help many trauma survivors heal for over thirty years. She uses the early trauma approach of EMDR in combination with somatic methods, an intuitive understanding of traumatic reenactment experience, and ego state work to transform and repair trauma held in implicit memory. In this conversation, Sandra shares about her experience in developing NEST, N – E – S – T – an integrated and systematic means to identify and address obstacles to the therapeutic repair of the effects of trauma. “N” represents the neuroaffective foundations of our understanding and treatment of trauma, including the Early Trauma approach of EMDR. These foundations are inspired by the seminal contributions of Panksepp, Porges, Schore, and many more. Additionally, Sandra uses technologies such as LENS Neurofeedback, TouchPoints, and AlphaStim where indicated to assist in healing work. “E” stands for the emphasis on Embodiment that emerges from utilizing somatic therapeutic interventions to repair somatic dissociation and other bodily and energetic holdings that result from trauma in infancy and beyond. “S” represents the system of ego states, which she addresses with Ego State Therapy, seeking to mitigate the protective functions of those states that interfere with working with other hurt child aspects of the self that were disowned for survival. Subsequently, we mediate internal conflicts and orient forsaken aspects of self to present circumstances and more. “T” signifies that the approach is a therapy consistent with the core reparative process of Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy. Sandra is known for her integration of the above therapies in a systematic way tailored to the needs of the individual. Sandra has many resources available for therapists as well as some workshops on NEST so if you’re interested, head over to paulsenpsychology.com to find out more. Before we dive into the episode, we just wanted to share a few of the upcoming training opportunities happening in the institute. Relevant to this episode actually, Jen and I will be doing another SIP II training in Healing the Fragmented self where we connect the basic principles of SIP including the venn diagram and intersubjectivity into how the self is formed throughout development and how it can become fragmented into self states. We also have a couple more workshops that we’re doing in January which includes Offering Healing Intensives, where Jen and I will share our approach to setting up and facilitating EMDR retreats as well as intensives in EMDR therapy. Then Melissa will be doing a workshop on nature based resourcing where she will introduce you to a way of using nature-based resources during Phase 2 of EMDR therapy, focusing on fostering a secure attachment to the natural world. Participants will explore how the four elements—earth, water, fire, and air—can be integrated into therapeutic practice to provide grounding, safety, and connection for clients. If you’re interested in any or all of these things, head over to our website at connectbeyondhealing.com and click on the for therapists tab.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR, Ego-States, and Neurobiology – Interview with Sandra Paulsen first appeared on Notice That.
The post EMDR, Ego-States, and Neurobiology – Interview with Sandra Paulsen appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger’s discussion on ending therapy. This conversation is a part of Notice That’s Back to Basics series where the hosts work through Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures, now in its third edition.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Ending Therapy: How do You Know? first appeared on Notice That.
The post Ending Therapy: How do You Know? appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger discuss Reevaluation in the standard 8-phase protocol of EMDR, as well as the three pronged protocol embedded in the adaptive information processing (AIP) model. This conversation is a part of the Back to Basics series where the hosts of Notice That are reading through Francine Shapiro’s eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures (3rd ed.).
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Reevaluation and the Three Pronged Protocol first appeared on Notice That.
The post Reevaluation and the Three Pronged Protocol appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger’s conversation with Roy Kiessling about the EMDR processing continuum.
In this conversation, Roy shares about the differences between EMD, EMDr, and EMDR processing where unrestricted and full network processing is the goal. Many clinicians struggle in working with clients who are quick to dysregulate or experience various forms of dissociation and abreaction to the EMDR process; the EMDR continuum can be such a faithful guide in working to support clients where they are and where they want to be.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post The EMDR Continuum: Interview with Roy Kiessling first appeared on Notice That.
The post The EMDR Continuum: Interview with Roy Kiessling appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Melissa’s conversation with Roy Kiessling. Roy is an EMDRIA-certified trainer and the founder of EMDR Consulting. Trained in EMDR in 1995, Roy grew professionally as one of Francine Shapiro’s training facilitators (1997-2001), then as a senior trainer for her humanitarian organization (2001-2013), and finally as a senior trainer for Francine’s EMDR Institute (2006-2013).
Through EMDR Consulting, Roy Kiessling and his team of trainers and coaches have conducted hundreds of EMDRIA-Approved basic EMDR trainings, educated over 10,000 clinicians in the Belief Focused Neurological Approach to EMDR, and taught innovative approaches including extended resourcing and neurological target planning and processing, using his EMDR Processing Continuum: EMD^, EMDr, EMDR.
Jen and Melissa got to have this first conversation with Roy to learn a bit about Roy’s journey as well as what he sees as the issues of our time in the EMDR world. In our second conversation, Jen and I got to sit down with Roy to dive a bit deeper into the EMDR Processing Continuum that fluidly attunes the EMDR process to the individuals we’re working with through EMD, EMDr, and EMDR so look for that in forthcoming releases if you’re interested.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR Now, Then, and Tomorrow: Interview with Roy Kiessling first appeared on Notice That.
The post EMDR Now, Then, and Tomorrow: Interview with Roy Kiessling appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger’s conversation with Michael Bowers, the Executive Director of EMDRIA. We got to meet Michael at the EMDRIA summit this last spring in Seattle and were so delighted when he agreed to come on the podcast and share a bit about himself as well as what he sees as the present and future of EMDR. In this conversation, we got to talk with Michael about a wide range of EMDR’s history, the tension and gifts of EMDR’s growth over the years, and the present and future vision for EMDR as advocated for and led by EMDRIA. Michael shared a wealth of insight and perspective into the world of EMDRIA as well as how to stay connected beyond attending trainings and conferences by joining the EMDRIA Online Community, privately hosted on EMDRIA’s website. I’ve spent a couple hours already exploring this page with nearly 17,000 EMDR clinician members, and there are a ton of resources available and free to use. If you’re interested to learn more about joining the community, head over to EMDRIA’s website and search “community”, or in your favorite browser, just type in “EMDRIA Community” and it’ll take you right to it.
Also, don’t forget to check out the EMDRIA Library for access to EMDR related research articles, blog posts, resources, trainings, continuing education opportunities, and so much more!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Unlocking EMDR’s Potential: A Deep Dive with EMDRIA’s Michael Bowers on Building Community, Advocacy, and Excellence first appeared on Notice That.
The post Unlocking EMDR’s Potential: A Deep Dive with EMDRIA’s Michael Bowers on Building Community, Advocacy, and Excellence appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to Jen and Bridger reflect on their experience of being therapists when life happens!
The post Fly On the Wall: Jen and Bridger’s Summer first appeared on Notice That.
The post Fly On the Wall: Jen and Bridger’s Summer appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear an interview with Noelle Lynn, therapist, advocate, and researcher specializing in the treatment of ADHD. To learn more about Noelle and the work she’s doing, you can find her at EMDRforADHD.com and ADHDcenterofwestmichigan.com. Noelle is also working on a book entitled The EMDR for ADHD Treatment Manual so keep your eyes peeled for its anticipated release. Additionally, check out the ADHD screener from the World Health Organization and consider what benefit it could bring to your practice.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR for ADHD: Interview with Noelle Lynn first appeared on Notice That.
The post EMDR for ADHD: Interview with Noelle Lynn appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger reflect on the work they’ve been doing to support couples and families in their EMDR journey. Throughout this episode, the hosts incorporate the Cycle of Repression into the conversation. This model of attachment rupture and repair empowers clients to discover safety in connection by understanding how we fall back on learned strategies to avoid threats and seek safety when we feel unseen. Whether it’s doom scrolling, substance use, intimate partner violence, or infidelity, this cycle helps us bring compassionate understanding to our therapy clients. Let’s embrace authenticity and healing together!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR for Couples and Families appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Melissa and Bridger discuss installation, body scan, and closure within the context of phases 5-7 of EMDR’s standard 8-phase protocol. This conversation is a part of the Back to Basics series where the hosts of Notice That work through Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures.
The post Installation, Body Scan, and Closure: Phases 5-7 of EMDR Therapy appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger discuss the purpose and function of desensitization and reprocessing in EMDR Therapy. This conversation is a part of the Back to Basics season where the hosts of Notice That are working through Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Phase Four: The Purpose and Function of Desensitization and Reprocessing in EMDR Therapy appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen, Melissa, and Bridger dive in to a conversation about Phase Four of the standard 8-phase EMDR protocol. This conversation is a part of the Back to Basics series where the Notice That crew is walking through Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy (3rd ed.). If you haven’t been following along, take a scroll back through the podcast library to catch up!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Introduction to Phase Four: Desensitization, Reprocessing, Body Scan, and Installation appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in as Jen and Bridger pick back up in the Back to Basics season with chapter five of Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy (3rd ed.).
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC
- Our Website
- Contact us about retreats and thera
- Contact us about training and consultation
- Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here!
- Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:
- Patreon
- Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That!
- Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to!
- Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients
- Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students
- Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today!
- Donate here!
- 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram
Credits
Executive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Assessment, Cognitions, Sensations, and Meaning in EMDR Therapy appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear a special release from the Notice That Podcast. This episode concludes the winter special series on the EMDR Supplement, a 12 hour EMDRIA Advanced course designed to encourage and empower clinicians in their practice and embodiment of EMDR therapy.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Future Template, Floatback, and Ego State Work in EMDR Therapy: From the EMDR Supplement appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear a special release from the Notice That podcast and The EMDR Supplement. Within this episode, you’ll be able to dive into the function and purpose of each of these phases, with a specific focus on how you can be intentional with your case conceptualization approach to make the most of these crucial phases in EMDR therapy. While you will hear the phases described broadly within the context of the standard 8 phases of EMDR, you’ll also here discussion of the three channels of processing, interweaves, managing dissociation during processing, closing a complete vs. incomplete session, and how to adapt the treatment plan and approach after reprocessing.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Assessment, Reprocessing, Closure, and Reevaluation with EMDR: From the EMDR Supplement appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear a special release from the Notice That team as they share from The EMDR Supplement, an EMDRIA approved advanced training for EMDR Therapists.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Case Conceptualization for EMDR Therapy: From the EMDR Supplement appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear the hosts of Notice That as they share material from The EMDR Supplement, an EMDRIA approved Advanced Training designed for EMDR Certification and advanced applications.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Resourcing & Preparation for Reprocessing with EMDR Therapy: From the EMDR Supplement appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear a special release from the Notice That team. In this small series of podcast episodes, you’ll get access to The EMDR Supplement, an EMDRIA advances training hosted at Beyond Healing Institute.
The post What is EMDR?: From the EMDR Supplement appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen, Melissa, and Bridger pick back up their discussion of Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy, now in it’s third edition. In this episode, the hosts dive into the first part of chapter five in their discussion on Phase Two: Preparation and Assessment.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Phase Two: Preparation for Reprocessing Target Memories appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen, Melissa, and Bridger pick back up on their journey through Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy, now in it’s third edition.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Treatment Planning with EMDR: Where Do We Start? appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Melissa, Jen, and Bridger process through their experience of living and practicing in the EMDR world.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Fly on the Wall – Life in the EMDR World appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Melissa and Bridger dive in to discuss therapeutic intensity in EMDR therapy. For the client and therapist both, EMDR offers a window into powerful autonomic and characterological change.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR and Therapeutic Intensity – For the Client and Therapist appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger’s conversation on self development and fragmentation as well the healing journey. Building on the fundamental principles of SIP I, the second training in SIP applies these principles to understanding the development of the self and the natural process of dissociation and ego fragmentation throughout the lifespan. SIP II: Healing the Fragmented Self and Complex Trauma presents a synthesis of developmental lifespan theory, internal family systems (IFS), ego state theory, and structural dissociation in a non-linear developmental timeline wherein dissociation and ego fragmentation can be visually illustrated and conceptualized. Intersubjectivity is then layered onto this visual illustration to help clinicians understand and visualize what it’s like for the therapist to meet and work with the client and vice versa, thus further deepening the therapeutic bond, increasing connection on treatment approach and progress, and deshaming the experience and path out of trauma.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Healing the Fragmented Self – Self Development and Complex Trauma appeared first on Notice That.
What is Somatic Integration and Processing?Listen in to hear Jen and Melissa present to a small group on the basics of Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP). SIP is an interpersonal neurobiology based conceptualization tool that uses psychodynamic neurodevelopmental theory, adaptive information processing (AIP) and memory reconsolidation, and nervous system informed somatic psychology to assist clinicians in their ability to understand, interpret, and utilize diagnostic bio/psycho/social/cultural information about their clients. Tools presented within SIP I help to illustrate this diagnostic information in a structurally concentric scaffolded framework that can be used for tracking session goals and therapeutic targets, maneuvering through any processing issues through understanding their psychodynamic origins, and it can even be used to track an entire therapeutic process from start to finish.
For more information, head over to connectbeyondhealing.com and click the “For Therapists” tab.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post What is Somatic Integration and Processing? appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen, Melissa, and Bridger pick back up their journey through Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy (3rd ed.). In this episode, the hosts begin in chapter four of the book, Client History.
Narrative SummarySo, we’re returning to Francie Shapiro’s foundational EMDR textbook, resuming from where we previously concluded Chapter Three in our last recording, resulting in a two-month gap. However, we’re now starting Chapter Four, titled “Phase One: Client History.” This is our focus for today’s discussion, at least in part. It’s unlikely that we’ll cover the entire chapter. Similar to our previous episodes, our approach involves acknowledging segments of the text while also incorporating our interpretations, modifications, and insights derived from our experience with EMDR. Additionally, we aim to integrate significant updates and advancements in the field of traumatology that weren’t available when the text was originally written, especially regarding safety considerations. This includes incorporating the wisdom and research accumulated since then, offering a broader understanding of what we now know compared to the time of the book’s publication.
How do we get started with EMDR?
When we graduate from basic training, there’s an overflow of information swirling in our minds—everything from the comprehensive book content presented through PowerPoint slides by our instructors to the influx of clinical hours with our clients. It becomes a daunting task to figure out where to even begin. Within the framework of EMDR’s basic training, the main takeaway often seems to be the directive to simply start applying it in practice. The instructions suggest initiating EMDR with clients we’re already working with or taking on new clients specifically for EMDR therapy. However, this approach can be quite confusing and unclear.
I’m relieved that we have this space to dissect and methodically explore what it truly entails to begin EMDR therapy with someone, especially during Phase One, which focuses on the client’s history. The concept of client history encompasses a wide spectrum of possibilities, ranging from inheriting extensive documentation containing previous clinical notes, additional diagnoses, and medication histories, to the gradual establishment of a personal connection and rapport with the client. It’s like merging these two aspects together—a union of sorts.
I’m currently recollecting whether we’ve discussed this particular aspect on this podcast or in various other forums. We’ve pondered over whether Phases One and Two follow as linear a progression as the other phases outlined in the methodology. In reality, the experience of these two phases doesn’t always unfold in such a linear fashion. In practice, Phases One and Two tend to blend together. Relationship-building occurs both through the process of gathering history and by experiencing resources together, all while preparing the client for what EMDR therapy entails.
The complexity of each case dictates that we can’t rigidly stick to a fixed sequence of collecting a complete history before initiating preparation, or vice versa. Sometimes, we might delve into preparation before even delving deeply into the client’s history. The intricacies of these phases are vast and varied.
One aspect that often causes confusion is labeling all the stages as “phases,” which implies they’re markedly distinct from one another. Consider the process involved in conducting a phase three assessment—a discrete worksheet with a set of questions—as compared to the intricate nature of something like gathering a client’s history, which might unfold gradually over several years. An assessment worksheet, if done efficiently, might only take a couple of minutes. By categorizing them under the same term, it creates an impression for clinicians that these phases should somehow be similar experientially, when in reality, they’re not. It’s akin to equating a marriage with the specific moment of exchanging wedding vows. While they are connected, it’s challenging to discuss them as if they offer the same experience.
When attempting to discuss these phases, visual aids and representations have been helpful due to their complexity. I view the initial two phases as broad, expansive, and extended experiences over time, whereas the subsequent phases are more defined, almost black and white in some respects. Mentally distinguishing between these two sets of experiences can be beneficial—recognizing that phases one and two are not necessarily tied to a particular target, while phases three through seven involve precise and intentional work on specific memories or processing channels. They entail working discreetly within a memory or series of memories before zooming out to grasp the larger ongoing process.
There’s an assumption in the language of a phased treatment approach that each phase exhibits consistency, even concerning our relationship with time. However, attempting to treat an assessment phase as identical to preparation or history-taking phases would lead to significant oversights and force an overly objective approach.
As both of you were discussing the overarching categories of phase one and two, I found it interesting because within these categories, they encompass specific, even target-specific elements, yet they go beyond that. These phases are notably broad, fluid, and relational. For instance, consider a technique like the “float back” method, a particular tool used in history-taking that directs us toward the specific target we’re about to work on. It involves a step-by-step process or specific resourcing for a particular schema or realm before diving into the work. While these phases can contain these specific components, they transcend mere specificity. They unfold over an extended period, more like a continuous process.
One way to visualize this intertwining is to perceive phases one and two as the foundational bedrock upon which everything else in the therapy process rests. They remain constant and ever-present, requiring continuous attention and additions. Nothing in the therapeutic journey moves forward without this foundational support. This understanding offers a more grounded perspective on what we aim to accomplish in these initial phases—they form the groundwork for the entire therapeutic experience. Therefore, it’s crucial to invest as much time as necessary in building and nurturing this foundation.
Sometimes there’s a discussion about switching phase one and phase two, which may hold some truth. However, it might be more accurate to consider them as ongoing and concurrent processes. Even when we used to discuss switching between the two, the intention was to emphasize their essential parallel nature rather than strictly adhering to a numerical sequence. Placing client history before preparation seems somewhat restrictive to me. It creates a funnel-like structure rather than acknowledging the intricate complexity inherent in the therapeutic relationship. This approach might understate one of the fundamental catalysts for change in EMDR—the profound relationship between the therapist and the client. When we refer to phases one and two, it signifies establishing the broader context within which the entire therapeutic journey will unfold. These phases form the foundational base upon which the therapeutic relationship thrives and develops.
When do we modify the basic protocol?
Okay, so we’ve discussed this topic before, and I’m revisiting instances where we’ve imagined conversations with Francine posthumously, considering what she might say now that she couldn’t express back then. There are moments while reading these chapters where I feel she hinted at critical caveats to the broader discussion. Usually, it revolves around the need to modify the basic protocol in cases involving complex presentations, severe abuse, dissociation, etc. However, this is conveyed in a way that suggests, to me at least, that modification might not be the norm. The underlying premise of the book seems to emphasize adhering to the standard protocol without alterations. Yet, there are chapters and references hinting that modifications might indeed be necessary and offering guidance for such situations.
In light of current knowledge and research in the field, a necessary update to this understanding is that modification is more common than originally conveyed. These small cautionary statements, such as the one found towards the bottom of page 87, where she mentions considering clients with severe abuse backgrounds before proceeding with treatment, leave therapists in a challenging position. Therapists regularly encounter severe abuse situations and need more than just a suggestion to carefully consider before proceeding. There’s a need for guidance on what consideration entails, what factors to consider, and what alternate paths to take. These situations raise numerous questions that demand more detailed guidance.
A general update that we should emphasize is the recognition that regular modifications are not a deviation but rather a common aspect of EMDR practice. Even for clients who might seem suited for a straightforward standard experience, certain modifications can benefit both the client and the therapist, hence warranting their implementation.
From personal experience, the absence of explicit acknowledgment for modifications in the basic training material can lead to feelings of inadequacy or questioning one’s ability, especially when working with challenging populations. Acknowledging and starting from the premise that modifications are commonplace because of our individual and nuanced humanity is vital. We are attempting to tailor a standardized approach to fit the unique individuals we treat.
There’s a stark contrast between the textbook’s categorical, objective language and the nuanced, humanized approach needed in practice. The textbook lists various domains to assess for client readiness in a quantitative, evidence-based manner. However, it lacks the emphasis on humanizing these standards in clinical work. The basic training might convey these standards as rigid requirements for doing EMDR, yet it’s crucial to realize that humanizing the approach and considering the individuality of each client is what breathes life into this otherwise objective and reductionist methodology.
I’ve come to grasp the reasoning behind why basic training is structured the way it is, particularly as we’re engaged in writing our own training. Condensing everything we’ve learned and experienced over more than a decade into a mere five days, though it might seem like an extensive training, makes it implausible to comprehend all components thoroughly until one has actually utilized the most fundamental aspects. It’s akin to a student in grad school—grasping something as intricate as complex dissociation is beyond their reach when they’re still in the initial phases of learning basic helping skills.
Reflecting on this perspective, the primary takeaway I hope listeners glean from this discussion is not that they must comprehend every nuanced adaptation or creative approach immediately, but rather, to recognize the potential within themselves to do so over time. Trusting both their instincts and the protocol, seeing these elements merge alongside their clinical skills and natural intuition, can lead to something truly remarkable. They needn’t feel restricted or as though they lack permission to make these adaptations.
There’s a quote by Picasso that I’ve been using quite frequently—it’s become somewhat of a motto for us, especially in certification groups. The quote is “learn the rules like a master so you can break them like an artist.” While the “break them like an artist” part may seem more appealing, I stress the importance of living by the first part of the quote. It’s about dedicating oneself to understanding the rules, not because rules are to be followed without question, but because they provide a foundation. They’re the framework upon which our practice stands. Before we venture into the artistic freedom of breaking these rules, there’s a crucial need to deeply comprehend them. They offer us support, clarity, and stability as therapists.
Long before embracing the flamboyance of rule-breaking, there’s an initial phase dedicated to understanding these rules. However, part of comprehending these rules involves recognizing when they might not fit a particular situation or client. This is where the conversation initially fell short in terms of nuanced understanding. The asterisk indicating exceptions or nuances is often missing in the portrayal of EMDR, even in books like this one. The caveats we’ve discussed thus far appear towards the end of paragraphs, rather than prominently at the beginning and end of chapters.
For me personally, it’s about acknowledging, before delving into the objective, left-brained material of EMDR, that this approach requires a relational connection and an understanding that it evolves uniquely for each client. It needs to resonate with the therapist’s genuine feelings and authenticity. Once we establish this relational connection, we can transition into the more technical aspects, exploring how these rules resonate and apply to each therapist and their clients, facilitating a deeper understanding and effective application of the modality.
Assessing for Reprocessing Readiness
We’ve affectionately renamed many aspects of EMDR within our approach, and we’ve done the same with what’s commonly referred to as the traditional readiness checklist. We’ve termed it as “assessment for reprocessing readiness.” The adjustment we’re making internally is that when we talk about readiness, we’re not indicating readiness for preparation and resourcing, as everyone is generally prepared for that phase. Even in severe and acute cases, that’s the starting point. What we’re truly examining in terms of risk and readiness is whether individuals are prepared for the work required in phases three and four. This involves selecting a specific target, activating it intentionally, and aiming to reprocess and alleviate distress related to that target. The shift in perspective here is different from the conventional teaching, where the danger lies in assessing readiness solely for EMDR as a whole. This can result in people missing out on the assistance offered in other phases because they might be deemed not ready for phase four. This holds significant importance in practical application.
If we view EMDR as more than just a tool or intervention, then indeed, assessing this type of readiness might be appropriate. However, when we consider EMDR’s objectives from a nervous system-informed perspective, it’s not about whether clients are suitable for healing, but rather, do they possess the necessary components for the targeted processing that occurs in phases three and beyond. We have a general list of considerations that we take into account. Some are straightforward, while others require more nuanced examination. However, it’s essential to underscore that these considerations are not disqualifiers but rather elements for assessment. For instance, we consider past mental health diagnoses, current medications, physical health conditions, overall life stability, safety within the clinical relationship, internal and external resources available to the clients, risk factors like suicidal ideation, and the degree of known dissociation. However, known dissociation shouldn’t be assumed as fully comprehensive from an initial assessment. Oftentimes, new manifestations or expressions might emerge as we progress through the subsequent phases.
It’s the collective evaluation of these factors that provides a sense of readiness, but it’s not a simple checkbox. It’s more analogous to determining how much acceleration we apply—how swiftly or deeply we move into the subsequent phases or what preparatory steps might be necessary beforehand. It’s not about a hard switch; rather, it’s about gauging how fast and how deeply we can proceed at a particular moment.
To humanize our approach, we utilize various indicators to gauge a client’s capacity to connect with their internal experiences and effectively delve into a memory or a specific moment from their past that holds present relevance. This isn’t something objectively quantifiable, but we aim to understand if they’re prepared in their current life circumstances to address the issues they’ve brought to work on. It might require us to identify necessary resources to establish, perhaps forming a support team or determining who they’ll engage with outside our sessions, individuals who support and foster their healing journey. Additionally, it involves safeguarding the vulnerability that emerges during our work together. It’s about their ability to navigate emotions internally and engage in the processes expected in EMDR—letting a memory surface, feeling its impact in the body, opening the reconsolidation window, and ideally achieving reprocessing. These assumptions within the EMDR process often lack sufficient discussion or nuanced exploration.
There’s a list in the text that I’d like to discuss from a slightly different perspective. Francine highlighted the necessity for clients to tolerate high vulnerability, lack of control, intense physical sensations, and complete honesty with the therapist to proceed with reprocessing. However, approaching it in such a stringent manner seems impractical for most individuals—it feels almost intolerable just articulating it. Especially at the initial stages, presenting these requirements might dissuade anyone from considering EMDR or engaging in a therapeutic relationship.
I understand the intent behind each of these requirements, yet what’s important to soften about this approach is that they aren’t disqualifiers. Instead of viewing them as all-or-nothing prerequisites, we can explore the strategies clients employ when these conditions aren’t fully present. For instance, if they struggle with high vulnerability, they might resort to humor, laughter, or avoidance. Identifying these strategies allows us to work alongside them, either preceding the processing or concurrently with it. Take sarcasm or humor in vulnerable moments as an example—it doesn’t necessarily halt the process but signifies a coping strategy that requires acknowledgment. Similarly, verbal processing amid intensity could be observed as a strategy to manage discomfort. It’s an area where we’ve adopted a more flexible stance, recognizing these factors as vital for holistic processing without considering them as definitive disqualifiers. There are numerous adaptations and modifications available to honor each of these elements while proceeding with therapy.
Recognizing these strategies provides a great illustration of how extensive and thorough history taking provides valuable hints and cues for modifications. Let me share an example that I encounter frequently with my client demographic. Sometimes, I let go of the expectation to completely clear a target, aiming for a perfect zero. For instance, there are cases where the client can manage various emotions but hasn’t yet experienced and processed big expressions of rage or intense anger. I’m currently working with three clients who’ve revisited previous targets because they’re now ready to confront and express their rage about those experiences. We’ve prepared for this, taking careful steps to access their rage and create a safe space for them to express it. For one client, we’re planning a session in a nearby wooded area because they feel unable to express rage in the office. It’s an adjustment we’re making based on the thorough history taking that indicates readiness for many emotions but a significant difficulty with anger. So, we’re addressing what we can and planning to revisit when the situation shifts. We’ve been using preparation techniques like Ego State work, resourcing, and more to prepare for expressing rage while continuing phase four processing on emotions like shame and anxiety. This is just one example of the modifications we’re exploring.
The discussion about modifications is crucial. Although we won’t delve deeply into the exhaustive list of modifications, subsequent chapters will consistently intertwine this theme throughout. It’s about considering modifications based on the relationship, historical understanding, and the progress made in the preparation phase. We need to reconnect with our intuitive understanding, emphasizing that modifications are context-driven and don’t necessarily demand referring to specific guidelines or lists.
I often find in consultations that I end up asking more questions than the consultees do. That’s because I don’t know their clients as well as they do. The key to modifications lies in developing a sensitivity toward ourselves and our clients’ needs. It’s a therapist-dependent process too, considering what therapeutic skills and methods resonate with us and align with our comfort and expertise. Basic training traditionally provides a list of possible interweaves, but there’s a vast array of modifications that are as diverse as the populations we work with.
To provide an overview of potential modifications for those wondering what these might entail, they could encompass a variety of strategies. For instance, revisiting the preparation phase and crafting unique and inventive resources tailored to each client’s needs. It might involve altering the sequence of targets, opting for a less emotionally charged target or exploring a different aspect of memory networks in some way. Take interweaves for instance, interweaves, which involve incorporating content or process-based interweaves. Yet, what I consider most crucial is emphasizing the therapeutic relationship. This involves creating a secure and attuned environment that caters to the depth of material we’re addressing, molded by each client’s individual attachment experiences.
The modifications also extend to how we select and sequence targets, allowing ourselves to imagine targeting distressing material through unconventional avenues apart from explicit memories. Sometimes, it’s impractical or unnecessary to focus solely on explicit memories that represent what we seek to change. For instance, when dealing with conditions like DID or severe dissociation, it’s entirely possible to engage in EMDR. It’s about knowing how to target sensations, dreams, or fragmented flashbacks, even when their reality is uncertain. Navigating these unconventional targets within memory networks marks a significant modification when explicit memory retrieval isn’t feasible.
What do modifications look like?
Personally, I favor symbolic targeting in certain situations and often integrate it between traditional preparation and the explicit memory-focused phases. This phase of symbolic processing offers tremendous learning opportunities, although I don’t use it universally. It aligns with what feels right for my practice and benefits the therapeutic process. Broadening our perception of what constitutes a target is a fundamental modification zone in EMDR practice.
My primary method involves reprocessing trauma through resourcing, using resource building as a gateway to access the trauma network. This concept may require further elaboration, and we’ll likely discuss how to implement this approach later. Essentially, we have two choices: we can directly target a specific memory for processing, or we can enter through resourcing, allowing it to organically unfold. An example might involve ego state work, focusing on unmet developmental needs within certain parts and resourcing to address those needs rather than immediately delving into the trauma memory itself.
For me, this approach stands as the most common modification, although it’s challenging to precisely categorize. Essentially, it’s about exercising patience in allowing the relational aspect of the process to evolve. I acknowledge that each client’s ability to experience vulnerability, lack of control, physical sensations, etc., particularly in the presence of another person, is distinct. Hence, I ground the anchor of our work in the understanding that this process will take time to deepen and unfold. It’s not about expecting clients to pour out everything or conform to what I’m doing; it’s about experiencing and discovering together, fostering post-traumatic growth, resilience, and authenticity.
Similar to your method, Jen, I employ a consistent resourcing process that guides how I approach, work within, and exit from targets—it’s about resourcing consistently. Moreover, I aim to extend these resources into the client’s external world. While this might not be an initial modification, I’m always considering how to apply these resources presently and in the future, not just focused on looking back at the past.
Indeed, discussing modifications could take a significant amount of time because no amount of documentation can encompass all potential modifications. Yet, my intention is for individuals to feel liberated to engage differently with their clients, fostering a more collaborative and creative environment in these interactions. I advocate for broadening our definitions and approaches to EMDR beyond what manuals dictate, urging therapists to be fully present in understanding what we aim to achieve and finding innovative ways to accomplish it together. While scripts can be helpful, I encourage the confidence to improvise and create together in the therapeutic process, recognizing that doing so constitutes good therapy.
The book delves into various domains like neurological impairment, epilepsy, eye problems, drug and alcohol abuse, particularly on pages 90 and 91. For me, there’s a specific way of interpreting these categories that’s crucial. I often get asked if EMDR can be done with individuals having conditions like a traumatic brain injury (TBI) or other neurological disorders, seen as potential hindrances to EMDR. I focus on three key aspects irrespective of the specific condition. Firstly, I assess their ability to detect sensations internally and externally. Secondly, I look at how they regulate their emotions, observing their responses when they’re highly aroused or hypo aroused. Lastly, I consider their access to internal processing, whether it’s related to memory or emotions. Evaluating these components patiently guides how I modify and tailor the process for the client based on where they stand concerning these three aspects.
Collaborative common sense plays a role here. For medical concerns, I advocate a collaborative common-sense approach: ask the client how they feel about trying EMDR given the situation, and seek clearance from a doctor if needed. For instance, in the case of pregnancy, it’s essential to consider the client’s feelings, my own feelings, and obtain approval from their doctor. If everyone agrees, then we proceed; if not, then we don’t. However, for some non-medical matters, common sense might not offer a clear-cut yes or no. In such cases, it’s about trying it out together, taking a cautious step-by-step approach, assessing how the client feels during a bit of processing, and deciding together whether to continue.
Rigidly adhering to a binary approach, as if there’s an EMDR rulebook from above to follow, doesn’t align with my collaborative practice. I encourage therapists to work collaboratively with clients, conduct experiments, and gather their own data to determine what works best for them. It’s about being flexible, experimental, and running trials to truly understand if EMDR is suitable for their clients’ specific situations.
There’s a particular case where a client had heart arrhythmia, and both the therapist and the doctor were worried about any physical exertion triggering irregular heartbeats. This concern raised a dilemma as seeking therapy was potentially distressing, leaving them with no viable help. The restrictive standards posed a challenge. However, through a careful, sensitive assessment, we managed to understand the situation better and establish protocols for handling potential issues. We ensured a plan was in place should anything untoward happen during therapy, with a clear agreement to halt EMDR if needed, with both client and therapist feeling comfortable and attuned to each other before starting.
Considering all these factors, the main takeaway is that EMDR is a relational process that unfolds over time. While the basic protocol serves as a solid foundation, it’s not rigidly adhered to; instead, it’s about being adaptive and creative. Being a good EMDR clinician involves employing your creativity to tailor the process to each client’s needs. There isn’t a comprehensive list of interweaves that cover every scenario, so it’s crucial to permit yourself to incorporate your creativity in therapy sessions and collaborate with the client to find what works best for them. It’s absolutely okay if certain techniques or resources don’t yield the expected results; it’s all part of the learning process for both the therapist and the client. We’re not hastening to confront distressing experiences, but we’re also not shying away from them due to potential risks, acknowledging that there are implications to consider in the process.
TranscriptBridger
0:01:43
We’re back.
Jen
0:01:44
We’re back, finally.
Bridger
0:01:46
The three of us.
Melissa
0:01:47
Where have we been?
Bridger
0:01:48
Where have we been? I’m sure a lot of you are wondering that. Where have you been? Two months and no episode? What is this? How rude, we’ve left him hanging.
Jen
0:01:58
Has anyone reached out? I haven’t gotten any like, messages about it…
Melissa
0:02:01
Oh there’s been plenty of conversations. Yes.
Jen
0:02:04
OK.
Bridger
0:02:05
Melissa’s in the know on people wanting more.
Melissa
0:02:08
Like, is everybody OK? I’ve had, you know, loving comments. Just curiosity.
Bridger
0:02:13
Just curiosity.
Jen
0:02:15
Well, maybe we should give our listeners a little bit of context as to why…One reason why…
Bridger
0:02:22
Yes, one reason why.
Jen
0:02:23
There’s been multiple reasons why if we’re going to be real about it, but one really big, special, adorable, cute, snuggly reason why we’ve been gone.
Bridger
0:02:34
There’s another human in the world now…
Jen
0:02:35
A little Bridger.
Bridger
0:02:36
… and that’s very cool.
Bridger
0:02:37
A little, well, a little Olivia. I don’t know. A little Bridger Olivia.
Jen
0:02:41
Yeah.
Bridger
0:02:42
She’s a girl. So, I don’t know. Bridger? I don’t know.
Bridger
0:02:45
I don’t know. But yes, there is a now nine pound, two ounce, small human with no teeth living in my house named Goldie Rose Falkenstien. And so that’s very cool. But it has been a journey. We got COVID in the hospital, which was not what we expected. We had an open plan as far as how we were going to give birth, but that wasn’t on it.
Melissa
0:03:15
In all of the creative renditions of how will birth go, you forgot to put code on it.
Bridger
0:03:22
Didn’t even think about that. Yeah, so perhaps we should have, I can hear many voices in my head saying, you should have thought of that, that’s why you don’t go to hospitals. Okay, well, I’m not trying to get into this whole thing right now. We had a lovely experience. We’re good. Yes, we had a lovely experience aside from getting COVID. But about a week after we brought her home, everybody kind of got back to normal, whatever that means now.
Jen
0:03:53
Yeah, a new normal.
Bridger
0:03:53
A new normal… I was talking with Caleb and the best metaphor or analogy I can use is that I feel like I’m a resident now of two parallel universes that I’m perpetually late to transport between. Like I’m just, I like show up to the one I’m supposed to be in quote unquote, and it’s like I’m late and I have to like orient to where I am. And then at some point I’m like sucked back into the other one of work. And yeah, it feels very disorienting and when you time travel sleep is a bad thing I guess so… really not getting much of that… can’t afford it.
Jen
0:04:33
Bridger, that visualization explains some of the facial expressions that you’ve jumped onto zoom with
Bridger
0:04:43
yeah exactly
Jen
0:04:42
you just look like really disoriented…
Bridger
0:04:45
yeah because I’m like where am I? What time is it?
Melissa
0:04:48
What meeting am I in?
Bridger
0:04:49
what version of myself was I just before this?
Jen
0:04:53
Yeah.
Bridger
0:04:53
It’s very disorienting… and I thankfully have so much, like so many people have been really understanding from clients and consultees. It’s interesting to work with so many people internationally because they’re like, so you’re like off for like a while, right?
Melissa
0:05:10
Oh, yeah.
Bridger
0:05:11
Like, no. There is no governmental support for this.
Melissa
0:05:17
Yes.
Jen
0:05:20
So wild.
Bridger
0:05:22
It’s been interesting, but she is lovely and beautiful and wonderful. She makes amazing faces. Her eyebrows are unbelievable.
Jen
0:05:34
Well, if you ended up making a photo of her, the cover image for this episode, I wouldn’t be opposed to that. I think there’s a few questioners out there that would be thrilled to see her face.
Bridger
0:05:46
There is one that isn’t particularly like cute because her face is like so scrunched, but she’s given the peace sign. That’s my favorite photo of her. And it was caught perfectly where it looks like very intentional, like peace sign.
Melissa
0:05:58
Yeah, I have one like that of a Nora at about a month old. She was doing the thinker face right. She had this serious like, you know, hand on chin like there’s something very, very serious happening in there.
Bridger
0:06:12
There’s another picture of Goldie where she’s laying down and she’s like, posing like she’s like full on like arms crossed one hand up like just so beautiful.
Melissa
0:06:23
The serene baby pose.
Bridger
0:06:25
Serene baby. Yeah, that’s what it would be called if it were curated. Serene baby.
Melissa
0:06:31
Well, it’s an excellent reason that we have been delinquent in episodes.
Bridger
0:06:36
And I have to say, like, I have definitely missed you guys in this space. I miss you guys just in general, but like in this space as well. This is my first episode, like recorded being back. And it’s just a different space that no other social space offers where we just get to kind of dive in and have fun and know that we’re speaking about something really important and that hopefully a lot of people will benefit from and we’ll get a lot out of it too just in this time together. So I’m really excited to be back.
Jen
0:07:11
Glad to have you back and for us to be back too. Melissa and I were, didn’t tend to our recording as well as we could have maybe with…
Melissa
0:07:22
We’ve been using our time very well though, I promise.
Jen
0:07:24
Yes we have.
Melissa
0:07:25
We’re busy.
Bridger
0:07:26
So we’re back…
Melissa
0:07:29
We are.
Bridger
0:07:30
… into Francie Shapiro’s EMDR seminal textbook… and we’re picking up where we left off, which we finished chapter three in our last recording, so you’ll see a two month gap there, but we’re right back to where we were starting chapter four, entitled Phase One, Client History. That’s what we’re gonna talk about today, in part, at least. I don’t think we’re gonna get through the chapter, but.
Melissa
0:07:59
We’re gonna get through at least half of it. That’s our goal.
Bridger
0:08:01
That’s our commitment. We’re going to try.
Melissa
0:08:03
Yeah, yeah.
Jen
0:08:05
And I think similar to our other episodes, we’re looking to follow that same process of acknowledging pieces of the text. There’s going to be much more than what we get to speak to, but then also offering some of our own interpretation or modifications or insight that we have found through experience of EMDR to kind of fold into some of the material that’s in the text.
Melissa
0:08:32
Along with some pretty important kind of updates to the way it was written back then and all the intervening wisdom and research of the field as a whole. What we know now that we didn’t know in terms of safety and updates to traumatology that are very relevant for these spaces.
Melissa
0:08:53
So where do you guys want to begin? How do we get started with EMDR?
Bridger
0:08:57
Yeah, I think that is a great place to begin. And speaking to my time traveling self, this is helpful for me as well, just getting back into this conversation of… I feel like when we leave basic training, there’s so much in our head, like, you know, this whole book in whatever PowerPoint form it was presented from the presenters and now we’ve got all this clinical hours going on and the clients that we’re seeing, where do you begin? I think within EMDR’s basic training, like what you leave with is that, well, we just start doing it. We start with clients that we’re already seeing or, you know, we take on new clients and start doing EMDR. I think a lot of that is really muddy. So I’m glad that we have this space to kind of parse out and go segmented or just kind of patiently through what it means to start EMDR with somebody. But in phase one, when it says client history, I think there’s a large spectrum of what that could look like from just inheriting a bunch of documentation that has long histories on it, previous clinical notes, additional diagnoses, medications, whatever. And then you’ve got your personal relational connection being built with your client. So it’s like a wedding of the two.
Jen
0:10:23
I’m trying to remember right now if we’ve spoken to this on this podcast, we’ve talked about it in so many other places, but I think maybe it’s been on here too, just our conceptualization of “are phase one and two as linear as the other phases?”, or can we really acknowledge, like, the, the real life experience of those experience of those 2 phases is not necessarily like as linear as what it’s written as. And so practically speaking, phase one and two kind of flow, ebb and flow together. And like relationship is being built through history taking and relationship is being built through experiencing resources together and preparing them for what does EMDR even look like and what does that mean. And so depending on the complexity of the case, we can’t say we’re going to collect a full history before we start preparation, or maybe we start with preparing before we even ask any history. There’s so many nuances to those two phases.
Melissa
0:11:25
I think one thing that I think is pretty confusing is the fact that we call them all phases gives this feeling that they’re remarkably different. You know, the process of doing a phase three assessment, which is a very discrete worksheet with a set of questions, and this is what we’re doing, is vastly different to the complex nature of something like a history-taking phase, which could roll out over years, where an assessment worksheet, if done well, is a two-minute experience, right? So even calling them the same thing creates a sensation for our clinicians that somehow they should be kind of similar to each other experientially and they’re not. It’s sort of like if you were to say that a marriage is the same thing as the moment of wedding vows. Well, I mean, I guess sort of, but like you can barely talk about the two as if you’re having the same experience, and yet they’re very linked to each other, right? They’re in the same category of marital experience, right? Things that we do is marry people, but it’s not real useful, I think, to label them as if they’re the same kind of thing. And so when we try to talk about these, and you know, we’ve been working on like creating images and visuals to try to represent this in some way, because it is complex. I think that imagining the first two phases as these very kind of broad and wide open experiential encounters that we have over long lengths of time, and the later phases are much more discrete and black and white in some ways. And so just to kind of mentally separate those two and say these are very different experiences that we’re gonna have.
Bridger
0:13:14
Yeah, the way I think about it is that phase one and two aren’t necessarily specific to a target, whereas the later you go, you know, phase three and on, with some, you know, reevaluation bringing us back to the larger picture, but those phases three through seven, you’re working very, very discreetly in a memory likely or a series of memories, a channel of processing, like you’re doing some very specific and intentional work and then zooming back out into this larger unfolding process that’s kind of just continually going. I love, Melissa, you just noting that one of the assumptions even in the language of a phasic treatment approach is an assumed consistency across each of these phases, even in our relationship to time. Like if assessment phase is going to be the same as our preparation or our history taking phase, you’re gonna be in a world of hurt. You’re gonna miss so many things and have to objectify. Yeah.
Jen
0:14:20
You know, as you were saying that, both of you talking about the broad categories of phase one and two, it’s interesting because they each hold some pretty specific, even target specific pieces, but they’re more than that. So they are very broad, fluid, relational, but then there’s like to identify like a say float back technique, for instance, is a specific history taking tool that gets us to the target we’re going to be working on. And it is more of a step-by-step process or specific, like, target resourcing. We know what schema we’re working on. We know what target realm we’re going to be in. Let’s do specific resourcing for that before moving in. So I think they each can hold those specific components, but it’s also so much more broad than that. And it is something that unfolds over a long span of time.
Melissa
0:15:19
I think that like one sort of image that we could use to imagine it together is that phase one and phase two are a foundation that everything else sits on, and they’re always there, and we’re always tending to them. You know, they’re constantly getting added to. We don’t do anything without that foundation underneath us. And I think that that sort of creates a more situated feeling of what we’re actually trying to achieve in those first two phases of this is the foundation we’re going to be on for the rest of this experience. And so we’re going to have to tend to it with that kind of thoughtfulness and carefulness and spend as much time there as we need to in order to really get that foundation well-laid. So, you know, sometimes we talk about switching phase one and phase two, which I think is probably more true than not, but also I think it’s maybe even better to say we do them both together and forever.
Bridger
0:16:21
Yes, yes, that is, yeah, I think that’s, even when we used to use the language of switching, I think that’s what we always meant, is that we see these things as occurring so importantly in tandem that to delineate numerically points us in a direction that we don’t need to go. That client history coming before preparation, it feels very “funnely” to me, as opposed to acknowledging or embracing the complexity that is in the relationship and under emphasizing one of the causal mechanisms of change in EMDR, which is the relationship between the therapist and the client. Like that to me is where when we say one and two, we’re meaning we’re establishing the context that this whole thing is going to unfold. Just like you said, Melissa, the foundation on which we stand and the relationship being such a such a primary part of that.
Melissa
0:17:17
Yeah, absolutely. So I feel like maybe I have a relatively good bridge into maybe our next point. Do we feel ready?
Bridger
0:17:26
I’m in.
Melissa
0:17:28
Okay, so I know that we have said this before and so I’m hearkening back to moments where we have posthumously had a conversation with Francine about what maybe she would have said now that she didn’t get to say back then. And so we’re going to do that again. Because I like… several times since I’m reading these chapters, I have this feeling of like, oh, she said it like she said that really important caveat to the big conversation. And usually it’s something around the concept of you’re going to have to make modifications to this basic protocol in the case of things like complex presentations and serious abuse and, you know,
Bridger
0:18:13
dissociation…
Melissa
0:18:14
dissociation, this and that. But it’s always done in this way that at least to me, it has this feeling of, but it’s more common that you’re not going to have to modify, right? Because that’s what the whole book is about, is the not modifying. And then there are some chapters in the back, and there’s a lot of allusions forward to, you know, you’re going to have to modify sometimes, and here’s what to do if that happens. And so I think the update that we would want to make, and I think based on, you know, what we know now and where research is in the field, is that actually modification is more common than not. And so these little caveats that she tends to make, like, you know, there’s one towards the bottom of page 87, where she says, clients with severe abuse background should be given careful consideration before proceeding with treatment…. Please say more, Francine. Because, like, this is the world that therapists live in, is severe abuse situations. Like, we need a lot more than, before you proceed with treatment, give it careful consideration. Like, how do we carefully consider? What are we considering? And when we do consider, what should we do instead? Like, there’s so many questions, right? And so I think that one of the general updates that we would make is that we want everyone to really feel that if you’re having to modify regularly… exactly. You know, this is where we’re all at, is realizing that a pure basic protocol is going to be less common than having to make some modifications. The other thing that I think is true is that even for clients that could benefit from just a very straightforward basic experience, there are some modifications that are potentially beneficial for everybody. And they’re really supportive to both client and therapist, so maybe we should just go ahead and do them.
Jen
0:20:03
Yeah, I would say in my experience that feels so true. And having a template from a basic training that doesn’t necessarily speak to that explicitly leaves you feeling like, “am I doing something wrong?” Or feeling like, gosh, “I must just work with the hardest population ever that’s barely ever going to be able to be able to use EMDR”. So I love just like starting from that point of the reason it’s going to be modified regularly is because we’re all individual nuanced humans. Like it’s, we’re taking something standard and trying to say, how do we make this fit the person that we’re trying to treat.
Bridger
0:20:49
Yeah, there’s a lot of writing, a lot of research on this idea of humanizing theory and intervention. And that to me is what we’re speaking to or how I understand it. Because if you look at the textbook, it comes across very categorical, objective, even listing out different domains that you should assess to determine client readiness. That language is very quantitative, like very evidence-based quote-unquote. And what I mean by that isn’t necessarily that it isn’t at all related to if you don’t do these things you’re not doing EMDR. But it’s saying in the way EMDR was developed to satisfy evidence-based assessment standards, it had to be explained in these very specific categories. Like when you say client readiness, what do you mean? And when you list out stability, life supports, general physical health, office consultations, like all this stuff, it comes across, I think, in a basic training to somebody who doesn’t know that, “oh, you’re gonna humanize all of this in your work”. It comes across as, these are these standards, and if you don’t do these things, you’re not doing EMDR. And so I think that’s a really intentional process of bringing your humanity and the humanity of your client into this thing and making it come alive, what was really objective and like reductionary.
Jen
0:22:23
And I feel like I am understanding why the basic training is taught the way it is more now than ever, like as we’re working to write ourselves on this. The impossibility of fitting all that we’ve learned and experienced through now more than a decade of doing this into five days, which is like a really long training, but into five days, it’s there’s no…
Bridger
0:22:51
Impossibly short.
Jen
0:22:52
And it’s impossible to understand all of the components until you have yet used the most basic components. Like you can’t quite get it. Like a student in grad school, there’s no way they’re going to fully be able to understand something as advanced as complex dissociation when they’re first learning, you know, basic helping skills. And so I think when we look at it like that, Melissa, you and I were just talking about this this morning of like the biggest thing I hope listeners take from this as they’re hearing it is not that you have to know all of those ways of nuancing it, all of the ways of adapting it and making it this creative process, but just know that you can. And that over time and trusting your instinct along with trusting the protocol, seeing those two come together and all of the clinical skills that you have and the human instinct that you have, that will become something that is really beautiful. any kind of changing as though they don’t have permission to make those modifications.
Melissa
0:24:04
I know that I’ve been using this quote and kind of constantly, maybe it’s like our quote for the year, the Picasso quote of learn the rules like a master so you can break them like an artist. And I was talking to I think it was a certification group recently, which certification is really where the “break the rules like an artist” part comes in. Yeah. But really, really considering that when I say that, I think people hear me emphasizing the “break the rules like an artist” because frankly that’s the sexier portion of the quote. But I actually live my life in deep dedication to the first part of the quote… you know, that we all are devoted to the rules, not because we think that rules are made to follow but because there’s some wisdom in the rules that give us a firm foundation. Right. They are the skeleton of what we’re doing. And as long as we understand them that way, they give us tremendous support and clarity and solidity and all things that we need as therapists. So well before we’re in the, you know, flamboyant lifestyle of breaking them like an artist, there is this need to study and commit to knowing the why of the rules, so that you also know when the rule isn’t helping, why it makes sense. Because those are the moments where then we need to learn a new rule and break that first rule artistically and creatively with our clients so that it can actually work for them and they can benefit. And so in the initial learning of EMDR, it really is a time for the rules. But part of the rules includes knowing when the rule doesn’t apply. and I think that’s where the original conversation just didn’t know how to nuance enough.
Bridger
0:25:54
I think it’s that asterisk that is missing a lot of times in the way EMDR is described, even in this book. Those caveats that we’ve talked about thus far come at the end of paragraphs, not at the beginning and end of chapters. To me, that’s the, again, my standards don’t mean anything to Francine. She is who she is. But for me, just naming that before we get into any of the objective left brain material of learning this stuff, I want you to just connect with it relationally and understand that this is going to take on a life of its own and needs to be individualized to the clients that you see and the different feelings and authenticity that you yourself as the therapist have. Once we get to connect on that, now let’s transition into this, you know, left brain. Here’s the specific rules, quote-unquote, of EMDR. How do those feel to you? What does that look like for your client? What’s coming up then as you start to as you start to apply this modality?
Melissa
0:27:10
Yeah. So speaking of the more left-brain rules, do you guys want to hop over to the actual readiness checklist and have a peek at that?
Bridger
0:27:17
Let’s do it.
Melissa
0:27:20
Okay. So we have lovingly, we rename a lot of things and we’ve done it to this too. So what we call the traditional readiness checklist, we call it assessment for reprocessing readiness because I think one of the first kind of internal adjustments we can make is that when we’re talking about readiness, we’re not talking about readiness for preparation and resourcing. Everybody is ready for that phase, right? That’s what we do in the most severe and acute cases. So when we’re talking about risk and readiness, we’re really looking at risk and readiness around are they ready to do the work of phase three and phase four where we’re selecting a specific target, we’re intentionally activating it for the express intention of trying to reprocess and clear the distress there. Are they ready for that? Can they tolerate that particular part of the EMDR process? And that’s a bit of a shift from the way that it’s usually taught, because the danger of imagining that we’re assessing readiness just for EMDR as a whole is that there’s a lot of people that miss out on help of the other phases, just because we are assessing them out as not ready for phase four.
Jen
0:28:29
Yeah, that feels so, so important to me in the actual application. If we’re talking about EMDR being more than just a tool or an intervention, like if you’re going to use it in that way, then then, yes, that might be we’re assessing that kind of readiness. But if we’re talking about really understanding what EMDR is attempting to do from a, you know, nervous system informed perspective and be able to say like, gosh, even the roots of memory consolidation and all that we’ll get into in that to come. This is not about clients “are you a fit for healing or not?” It’s do they have what they need? Do they have access to the components that are really necessary for this targeted processing, which is what comes in in that phase three and on.
Melissa
0:29:25
So we, you know, have a general list of things that we like to consider. So I’m going to just kind of say these, and then we can talk about whatever stands out to us. Some of them are obvious and then some need a little more nuancing. But things that probably need to be considered are things like, you know, what diagnoses are they coming in with, whether we agree with them or not. The fact that they’re coming in with them means something.
Bridger
0:29:52
Did you, Melissa, did you already read the second half of that qualifier for the assessment?
Melissa
0:29:59
No, I was going to read it and then say that, but we can do that first.
Bridger
0:30:02
Okay. Yeah for me, it’s just an important thing because even the assumptions that we’ve spoken to in the traditional sense of assessing readiness, you’re looking for disqualification… and that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about considerations based on Assessment; there is no disqualifying in the way we’re conceptualizing what’s to come, like what you’re about to read.
Melissa
0:30:27
Yeah, yeah, so with that in mind, that these are things that we consider, but none of them are disqualifiers. We consider past mental health diagnoses. We consider what are the medications that they’re currently on, any physical and medical situations that they’re experiencing. Another big one that we consider is just the general life stability, like how intense and stressful is their current life, whether it’s connected to past trauma or not, what’s up in their day to day is a big consideration of how they’re going to do in a phase three and phase four process. Another thing that we really spend a lot of time highlighting is the level of safety and rapport in the clinical relationship. How much can our relationship hold and contain is really going to influence the kind of material that we can tackle together and have that go well and be successful. Internal and external resources for the clients, some of these they’re going to come in with already, others we’re considering what might we be able to develop and how quickly might those actually be developed for them. Definitely considering kind of the normal risk factors like suicidal ideation plans, attempts, and things like that. And then the last one is the degree of known dissociation, which I use that language very deliberately because we will initially assess for dissociation whether we’re doing it relationally, whether we’re using the DES or something else, but never assume that after you go through that process, you have a perfectly clear and accurate picture of what dissociation may be present for the client. Oftentimes, as we move into those other phases, we find new manifestations or other expressions of dissociation that maybe we didn’t catch initially. But the degree of known dissociation, does the client know that they do that? What are we observing? What are their family members and other practitioners observed? all of that is going to be considered. And it’s kind of in the big constellation and collection of all those factors that we get the sense of how ready we are. But it’s not a box that we check. It’s not like the light turns from red to green. It’s more like how much gas do we put on the accelerator, right? Like how quickly are we going to move into those deeper phases, or what might we need to do ahead of time to get ready for that. So it’s not a hard switch. It’s really a feeling for how fast can we go and how deep can we go at this point.
Bridger
0:33:05
For me, in a way of humanizing this for myself, I use these different indicators as a means of understanding how able is this client to connect with their internal experience and work meaningfully in a memory or in a specific moment or experience from the past as it is currently relevant. Again, that’s not something that you can objectively assess for. But I’m looking for, are you in a situation in life where you’re ready to work on some of the things that you’re coming to work on? Because there might need to be some things that and this is part of the consideration element, but there might need to be some things that we name as needed resources to create now, even if that’s a care team, like who are you going to go out into the world and be with in this way that is open to and encouraging of your healing process and how do we protect the work and the vulnerability that we’re going to unfold in our time together and within that process can you work internally with emotions and actually do what we hope EMDR does in letting a memory wake up and feel in the body and actually be able to open that reconsolidation window and hopefully achieve reprocessing. Because those are assumptions in the EMDR process that I don’t think we talk about enough, or give space for nuance with.
Jen
0:34:51
I would like to read a little list that is in the text and talk about how we maybe look at it slightly differently. And Melissa, you and I got to have a conversation on this already, but Francine had acknowledged for clients to be able to move forward with reprocessing, there must be a tolerance for experiencing high levels of vulnerability, lack of control, and high levels of physical sensation or any type of physical sensation that’s associated with the targeted memory, and then the ability to completely tell the truth about their experience with the therapist. And when we looked at that list, it was like, okay, that that would disqualify like 97% of all human beings, right? Like that list feels intolerable to my body, as I say it. And And especially to do that, starting out, we’re talking about the earliest phase. Maybe you first meet a client and say, I have to be willing to feel high levels of vulnerability with you, lack of control, complete honesty about what I’m experiencing, and be open to any physical sensation from my trauma. No, thank you.
Bridger
0:36:22
Jen, you don’t give that as like an assessment to people and say unless you answer yes to all those things you don’t see them?
Jen
0:36:32
Who would want to do EMDR?
Bridger
0:36:35
Who would want to be in relationship with someone else period?
Jen
0:36: 39
Yes! Well and I guess I think I get what she’s looking for in each one of these. I really do. But what I want to just like soften about all of it is it’s not, as you guys already mentioned, disqualifying. And then also, what if we look at each one of these and say, instead of it either has to exist or not exist, what are the strategies the clients are using when that doesn’t exist yet? So if they can’t tolerate high levels of vulnerability, what’s showing up in that? Is it humor? Is it laughter? Is it some avoidance? Is it, you know, like, what’s the strategy that shows up when it feels like maybe they’re not quite ready for the high levels of vulnerability? And how do we work with it instead? And it might be we work with it before we proceed, or it might be we work with it alongside the process. And we kind of partner, I’m gonna use the example of sarcasm or humor in vulnerable moments. That doesn’t mean we can’t move forward with it, but it says that might be a strategy or talking, verbal processing, I see that all the time between sets. They can’t tolerate the intensity, so they start talking about it, maybe we work with it. Maybe we allow that alongside the processing while we stay aware of it. So I think that’s kind of an area that we’ve softened a lot to say, like, hey, those are important factors to really be able to holistically process something. But they’re not disqualifiers, and there’s so many modifications that we can make to really honor each one of those.
Melissa
0:38:27
Yeah, I think that’s such a good example of how history taking and really thorough and relational history taking, then gives us a lot of hints and clues about how to do modification. So just as like a brief example of a version of this that I feel like I encounter kind of constantly with the types of clients that I tend to work with, is there’s often the modification of I let go of trying to, quote unquote, clear a target, as in get a perfect zero. There’s some situations where I really push for zeros, and also their history and what, you know, we’ve discovered together, they can tolerate a lot of different emotions, but they have yet to have an experience where they can actually tolerate big anger, big expressions of rage. Things like “I hate him”, right? Like we’re not there yet. But we could do a lot, right? We could work with the fear, we could work with anxiety, we could work with shame, we could work with so much. But I’m not going to expect it to get totally clear because I know that there’s a pretty big affect phobia around rage, and we’re just not there. So I can think of three clients off the top of my head, where we’re currently in a phase of revisiting targets that we’ve already done in the past, because they’re ready to rage about it. We have we have done that work that careful process of like accessing their rage and getting them ready to tap into that and speak it and feel it with me in the room, right. And I you know, I have somebody we’re getting ready to go to a town nearby to be in 60 acres of woods, because she’s told me, I can’t do rage here in your office. Right. So we’re going to modify protocol and go into the woods because that’s where we’re at. So we’re going to revisit a target that she knows she needs to do that with. And that’s a modification we made based on this really like careful and thorough history taking that says, OK, we’re pretty good, but I can’t touch anger. I just am not there yet. So let’s do what we can and come back when that has shifted somehow. And we’ve been resourcing and doing Ego State and doing all kinds of prep to get ready for rage the whole time, but we’re still doing phase four processing on shame, anxiety, etc. Just an example. So I’m sure that people are curious in general about modifications, because that’s, that’s the part that like, we keep hinting at, of like, we’re going to have to modify, be ready to modify. And so I don’t think that we’re going to go into a ton of detail about all the different modifications. But I think in all of the subsequent chapters, we’re going to weave that in and throughout this conversation about, like, how might we modify? about some of this based on our relationship, the history taking that we’ve done, and how preparation has gone.
Bridger
0:41:39
Yeah, this is a moment where we need to swing back into the right brain and connect a little bit where we just said that this is going to need to be modified. There are considerations to be made. That doesn’t mean flip to page 94 for the exhaustive list of modifications and considerations. Like, we just need to take a second, that’s why I said like swing over to the right brain, that doesn’t mean, oh, go over to this other spreadsheet. It means tune in to yourself and to the client and really think and feel from the bottom up about what is going on in my, in the sense I’m making or the meaning that we’re making together of this assessment process because that’s going to hold the key for whatever modification and consideration you need to make with your client. I’m not going to be able to tell you that as a consultant because it’s your client and you’re you. I don’t know them, you know them. That’s one of the hallmarks for me that I consistently hear in consultation is that I ask more questions than the consultee does and that’s because I have no idea what you’re experiencing. I can go off of templates that I’ve experienced and try and make projective identifications of you know here’s where it might be coming from and sometimes we’re correct. We have a whole case conceptualization model that helps with that. But the whole purpose to me is tuning or cultivating a posture of sensitivity toward ourselves and our clients. That’s where we’re going to find the modifications.
Melissa
0:43:26
Yeah. I think it’s also therapist dependent. Like, you know, considering what other things are you well versed in? What other kinds of, you know, therapeutic skills do you have and ways of working do you enjoy that feel good in your body? And that element gets to count, right? So traditionally in basic training, we’re given a list of possible interweaves, but there isn’t really an extended conversation about these are really just possibilities and really a drop in the bucket of possibilities. And so, I mean, that’s what you’re highlighting Bridger is that it’s not, oh, I’m going to need an interweave. No, the modifications could be as diverse as the populations that we work with.
Jen
0:44:10
Yeah, and to give some like general categories of modifications in case anyone’s like, what does that even mean? Like, what could that possibly be? Yeah, it can be going back into preparation and really uniquely and creatively preparing and offering resources for that client. It might be around changing your sequence of targets, selecting a lower impact target or a different memory network or kind of changing that process in some way. Melissa, you mentioned interweaves, determining interweaves that could be brought in and utilized either content interweaves or process interweaves. And then even to me, the most important one is really leaning into the therapeutic relationship. When modifications need to be made, how do we really lean into that and start to build security, safety, attunement to the degree that is needed for the type of material that we’re working on, and it is needed based on their own attachment experiences. And that will look so different from client to client. I have some clients that like me, like coming to me, but literally really don’t care that much that I think they’re important and that I care about them. They have humans in their life that give them that message. And then I have others that like wait for that hour every week to feel that I care about them. And it is so important to them and their work. And so that is, you know, uniquely, uniquely shows up for each client.
Melissa
0:45:50
I think the other modification in that realm of target selection and sequencing is letting ourselves imagine how we could target distressing material through a different door than an explicit memory. It’s just not always essential or even possible to get an explicit memory that’s going to be a great representative of what we’re trying to change. You know, for instance, there’s a lot of conversation around like, can you do EMDR with DID? Can you do EMDR with heavy dissociation? And my answer to that is absolutely. Do you know how to target things that aren’t there an explicit story form? Do you know how to target? sensation and dreams and fragments of Flashbacks when the client doesn’t even know if they’re real or not, right? Do you do you feel comfortable navigating the murky waters of targets that don’t look like the usual targets? And if we know how to do that, we can work with all kinds of stuff. But that’s one of the big modifications that we make when there’s something funky happening within the memory networks themselves, and we can’t get explicit memory in the same way. I mean, honestly, I have a preference for that kind of symbolic targeting, like I will almost choose to do it if I have an option, because I actually find it tremendously beneficial at certain stages in treatment. And one of the spots that I use it is between what we would call traditional preparation and resourcing and traditional phase three and phase four of explicit memory. I like to go through a phase of kind of symbolic processing because I feel like we learn a lot. But that’s a modification. And I have my reasons for doing it. And I don’t do it with every client and I do it with a lot. It also feels good to my body. I think that gets to count. And so I think in that realm of targeting things, like broadening our definition and understanding of what gets to count as a target is one of the big modification zones.
Melissa
0:47:52
I’m curious, can you guys think of what are your most common modifications? I really want to say mods because I have a weird gaming history. This phrase keeps coming over my head. So now that I said it, I won’t have to say it again, but just everyone can join me if that’s happening in your head, if you’re a gamer out there.
Jen
0:48:18
I think mine is reprocessing trauma through resourcing. So letting resourcing be the door into the trauma network. And that’s a whole long explanation, and I’m sure we’ll get to a point of explaining in some ways of how to do that. But we can either select the memory we’re working on and really go straight at it and very direct targeted processing, open that memory network directly, or we can start in through an avenue of resourcing and allow that to kind of come alive. An example of this could even be like some ego state work, like building and the developmental needs meeting strategies of identifying the parts that have a need that wasn’t met and resourcing it to get that need met. We may not start in identifying the trauma memories where their needs weren’t met, but we’re working on having that part get its needs met. So that is probably my most common modification.
Bridger
0:49:30
It’s hard to even label it, but for me it’s the patience given to the relational unfolding of this process, knowing that, you know, those things that you listed, Jen, from the textbook about ability to experience high levels of vulnerability, lack of control, physical sensation, etc. That all of that is potentially unique in the client’s experience in the presence of another person. And so for me, what I just ground as the anchor for the work that we’re going to do is that this is going to take time to deepen and unfold and we’ll get better at connecting, we’ll get better at making meaning together of what we’re doing in session, and that I don’t expect you to just come in and spill your guts all over the place and just be fine with whatever I’m gonna do and say, because ultimately I’m not here to fix you. We’re here to experience something together and find a more authentic expression of yourself in time as it is now, having lived through what you have, using and discovering post-traumatic growth and that resourcing that can create resilience and grit and all of these things that we wanna see in our clients, that that’s discovered relationally. I use, very similar to you, Jen, a very thorough and consistent resourcing process. That’s for me how I get into targets and work in targets and get out of targets. It’s resourcing all the time. And then generalizing those resources out into the world. That for me, while it’s not a modification that I make on the front end, it’s definitely something I’m thinking about in the later stages of I always wanna be able to link, how can we make use of this today? How can we make use of this in what you’re experiencing now and what you might be wanting to do moving forward, not just looking backwards?
Melissa
0:51:54
I feel like we could talk about different modifications for a very long time.
Bridger
0:51:59
Yeah, because there is no amount of paper that can hold like all the modifications, no spreadsheet cells.
Melissa
0:52:03
You know, we could talk for an hour about each one of what we’ve said and you know, give examples of details of how that looks. But I think my hope is that people feel be set free a little bit to be with their clients differently in how this unfolds and more collaborative and creative in those encounters of what gets to count as EMDR. And really broadening definitions and ways of doing this so that we’re not so attached to what a manual is telling us to do. And we can be really present to what is, you know, what are we trying to do? And then what is the way that we could accomplish this together as two humans in this moment? And if we have a script that could be helpful for that, please use it. They’re great. But if we don’t, could we make it up? Right. Could we, you know, create together on the fly and know how to do that with confidence and with full permission that that is good therapy, that we have to do that.
Bridger
0:53:15
Yeah, there’s, and I’m just looking through what I’ve written in the margins of the textbook, but there’s several of these domains that the book goes through, like on page 90 and 91, neurological impairment, epilepsy, eye problems, drug and alcohol abuse. The posture in which you interpret these categories and what’s written there is really important to me. I get a question a lot of, you know, within a TBI, for example, like, can you do EMDR with a, you know, with a person who has a TBI or who has a neurological disorder, some limitation that they see and have detected through their assessment up front that they’re seeing as this could be a big problem for us doing EMDR. And for me, I talk about three components that it doesn’t matter what you put into the scene. I’m looking for these three components. Do they have ability to detect sensation internally and externally? That’s number one. And what does that look like for them? Number two is how do they regulate their affect? So when they get hyper aroused, what does that look like? When they get hypo aroused, what does that look like? Is there any fluidity in there? And then the third is access to internal processing. That could be memory, that could be feeling, I know what I’m feeling, et cetera. But if those three things, if we can be patient in our assessment of those three things, it doesn’t matter what impairment, injury, addiction, whatever, we’re going to learn how to modify and augment our process to suit the client because of where they’re showing up on those three things. And that’s just me personally, of what I’m looking for.
Melissa
0:55:06
I also think there’s a common sense element to this. I would like to identify this as collaborative common sense. If there’s like some sort of medical thing going on and you’re wondering can we do EMDR with this medical thing going on, right? The common sense, the collaborative common sense is ask the client how they feel, right, about trying EMDR given this consideration and then common sense is get clearance from a doctor. If this, you know, if this thing is under the purview of a medical professional in any way, like it’s just safer to check. Can we do it with pregnancy? Does the client feel safe too? Do I feel safe too? And does their doctor say yes? That’s common sense. If everybody says yes, then yes, right? If anybody says no, then no. And I think we can keep this simpler for ourselves. Same thing with a TBI. Do they want to try? Do I want to try? And does the doctor say yes? And there’s some things that are not medical and common sense is not a yes or no. It’s well, let’s try and see. Right? Take a breath. Yeah, feel it out. Well, we’ll toe dip in, we’ll try a little processing, see how you feel, and then we’ll decide together, right? So this rigid binary is if there’s like an EMDR God in the sky that’s judging us and determining if we’re doing it right. And you know, get that out of the room and be collaborative with your client and run experiments and get your own data on whether or not this is going to work for them.
Bridger
0:56:34
Yeah. Yeah. There’s so much nuance because I’m thinking of a client that or a consultee that was working with a client of theirs heart arrhythmia and was really concerned and had the doctor was very concerned that they can’t do any physical exertion because it could throw their their heart rate into an irregularity and the doctor had reservations about them going to therapy because it could be potentially distressing and the the consultee was like well that puts them in in an impossible scenario where they don’t have any way of seeking help at all. Like, you know, the standards, yeah, the standards that were put there were so limiting. But in, again, that careful, feel it out assessment, we were able to learn like, what’s really going on and what are we going to do if anything starts to happen? Like, how are we gonna know, similar to like the raise your hand, let’s stop EMDR, like with the client’s consent and we both feel good and attuned to one another, we know how it’s gonna go when we start this whole thing, that’s what to me I’m really looking for.
Melissa
0:57:50
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I think with all those considerations in mind, like what we really want everybody to kind of take away from this is, this is a relational unfolding, right? We’re meant to be creative and adaptive. The basic protocol is meant to be the sturdy skeleton that we rely on, but not that we feel devoted to and nothing else. Right. And that in order to be a good EMDR clinician, we do have to use our own creative skill. Right. There is no exhaustive interweave list that is going to give you everything you need to adapt to all the different situations with your clients. So give yourself permission. And even beyond that, make it an imperative that you are including your own creativity in the room and be collaborative with your client to figure out what’s going to work for them. And it is OK to try and have it not work. Like nothing went wrong. If you try and interweave and it flops. Or if you try a resource and it’s kind of meh, right? Like you didn’t hurt the client by giving them a container that they’re never going to use again. You learned something, right? You and your client learned that that’s not their jam, which means don’t rely on that. If it didn’t click for them, move on to something else. Keep developing resources until you find something that really feels resonant and personal and powerful and all of that process is incredibly potent for their healing overall. We’re not rushing to face horror but neither are we afraid of it just because there’s potential risks and implications to consider. Yes. How’s that feel for a rousing summary of the conversation?
Bridger
0:59:28
A rousing summary and go and do EMDR.
Melissa
0:59:38
Oh my preachy side occasionally comes out. I hope everybody’s okay with it.
Bridger
0:59:39
It was good. I felt encouraged. I felt uplifted. I feel uplifted and empowered.
Melissa
0:59:44
I will not use it as an alter call.
Bridger
0:59:47
Yes. As always, stay in tune with the website. Our course calendar is going to have all kinds of ways to stay involved. We’ve got several free things coming up as well with our, what is SIP? I don’t have the dates in front of me for what that is. Does one of you have that?
Jen
1:00:06
That’s October 5th.
Melissa
1:00:08
Mm-hmm.
Bridger
1:00:09
Do you have the time?
Jen
1:00:10
It’s 1:30 to 2:30 Central Time on Zoom. And you can find that on the website, but also if you’re part of the Beyond Healing community, that will be listed there. It’s just a space to come and hear Melissa and I say all the things of what is SIP, how does case conceptualization influence your practice, and then you guys get to ask questions about it to see if it’s something that you feel like you’d be interested in.
Melissa
1:00:40
Yeah, so you can come to that free event and you know we’ll help you determine if the full training feels like the right next step for you. And you guys have another one coming up for those that have already taken one and you’re dabbling in the idea of doing some of our advanced trainings. There’s an option on the website for that as well. You’ll be getting an email about it so that’s coming. Yes, and then if you guys are feeling, you know tantalized about learning the “how to break the rules like an artist”, Beyond’s approach the EMDR. That’s right. Our continual options for that are EMDR certification. All three of us offer cohorts for that consistently. So you can get on our website and look at continuing education. And we have each of our dates listed for the rest of the year. So you’ll be able to see those and into 24, too. So you can start planning your calendar for next year. And for those of you that have already certified and you’re wondering about next steps and how to continue your learning, another great option is to become a consultant. Doing consultation work is a great way to diversify. You don’t have to want to be a trainer. You don’t have to want to even do certification. There’s lots of different reasons why being a consultant can add to your work in a really way.
Bridger
1:01:56
And grow you as a clinician and the learning in general, like, you know, you get access to so many different cases and being able to walk with people through the EMDR certification process. Yeah, amazing.
Melissa
1:02:14
Yeah, so we run those cohorts consistently. If you’re interested in those, you can send us an email through the website, or if you’re on the community, you can send me or Jen or Bridger an email through there and we’ll let you know about what’s coming up. We would love to have you in any or all of those.
Bridger
1:02:32
That’s right.
Melissa
1:02:33
All right, guys, thanks for being with us today.
Bridger
1:02:36
Take care.
…
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Phase One: Getting Grounded in History Taking with EMDR appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Melissa and Bridger finish chapter three in Francine Shapiro's Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing Therapy (3rd ed.).
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Listen in to hear Melissa's conversation with Danielle Ciccone as they reflect on their experience of the Psychedelic Science conference of 2023 in Denver Colorado.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger pick back up on the Back to Basics season as they dive into chapter three of Francine Shapiro's Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Thearpy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures (3rd ed.).
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Listen in to hear Jen and Melissa continue working through Francine Shapiro's seminal Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures. In this episode, the hosts of Notice That pick back up in chapter two, talking about Adaptive Information Processing.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Listen in to hear Jen and Melissa talk with the hosts of the Evidence Based Therapist Podcast as the two podcasts from Think Beyond join forces to dive into information processing in the brain. This episode is a commentary on the 2nd chapter of Francine Shapiro’s seminal introduction to EMDR entitled, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures. Notice That will continue their Back to Basics journey through the book but we wanted to share this episode as a means of organizing our experience of AIP as a foundational theory of EMDR.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Adaptive Information Processing (AIP) and the Brain – Interview with Caleb Boston & Bridger Falkenstien appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear the hosts finish up chapter one of Francine Shapiro’s seminal text in EMDR Therapy, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures. We would love for you to follow along with us so please find your way to a copy of the book if you can and join the conversation!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post EMDR is Not an Intervention appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to here Bridger’s interview with therapist, community developer, and author, Rotem Brayer. This discussion features a sneak peak into Rotem’s most recent book entitled The Art and Science of EMDR: Helping Clinicians Bridge the Path from Protocol to Practice.
Here’s an excerpt from the back of the book:
The EMDR model is linear―real EMDR is not.
Therapists who are trained in EMDR can facilitate healing in the most profound ways. But successful treatment requires more than following a rigid script or a protocol. It requires bringing both the art and science of EMDR into the therapy room.
In The Art and Science of EMDR, clinicians will learn how to do just that. Grounded in the principles of neurobiology and the science of deliberate practice, this book teaches both new and seasoned EMDR clinicians how to apply the phase-based model of EMDR in a more holistic way. Instead of conceptualizing EMDR in an inflexible and linear manner, clinicians will learn how to adapt the protocol to each client’s needs while maintaining authenticity to the model (and to who they are as therapists and humans).
Whether you are an EMDR trainer, consultant, or practitioner, this user-friendly guide will help you:
- Understand a client’s presenting problems through the lens of neuroscience
- Identify and overcome common mistakes during preparation and resourcing
- Individualize a client’s inner resources
- Develop regular mindfulness habits that improve client outcomes
- Stay in control of the protocol while bringing more flexibility to the assessment phase
- Set the groundwork for effective processing and learn when and how to intervene
- Bring the principles of deliberate practice to EMDR trainings and consultations
You can order Rotem’s book on Amazon or pretty much wherever you get your books!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post The Art and Science of EMDR: Helping Clinicians Bridge the Path from Protocol to Practice appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger talk reflect back on their first experiences as newly trained EMDR clinicians. In this episode, Jen and Bridger also talk about the importance of case conceptualization and ongoing professional development training. If you’re interested to find out about the training opportunities at Beyond Healing Institute, check out the course calendar here!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and thera * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post First Time Using EMDR appeared first on Notice That.
What do we do as EMDR Therapists with new research? How should we protect the fidelity of EMDR while honoring and integrating new discoveries from the relational neurosciences? Listen in to hear Melissa and Bridger’s discussion with Bruce Ecker about the revolutionizing science of Memory Reconsolidation that can help us address symptoms and strategies of those we work with at the root.
Bruce has also work with the Coherence Psychology Institute to offer a 2-hour webinar entitled “Understanding Memory Reconsolidation for Enhanced EMDR Effectiveness”. Here’s an excerpt about the webinar from their website:
“The result of successful EMDR therapy is transformational change. In this webinar, Bruce Ecker defines the observable, verifiable features of transformational therapeutic change and presents the well-established empirical evidence that the fundamental mechanism of such change is the brain’s innate process of memory reconsolidation.
How EMDR in particular induces the memory reconsolidation process will be mapped out and shown in a video of an EMDR session. Webinar viewers will understand how memory reconsolidation underlies, rather than challenges, the AIP model of how EMDR works. That’s why familiarity with the brain’s reconsolidation requirements can guide EMDR practitioners to make target choices and craft cognitive interweaves that successfully produce transformational change with enhanced efficiency and consistency”
Click here for registration information!
Here are a few links to Bruce’s work:
Book: Depth Oriented Brief Therapy: How to Be Brief When You Were Trained to Be Deep and Vice Versa
Book: Unlocking the Emotional Brain: Eliminating Symptoms at Their Roots Using Memory Reconsolidation
Article: Memory Reconsolidation and the Crisis of Mechanism in Psychotherapy
Article: How the Science of Memory Reconsolidation Advances the Effectiveness and Unification of Psychotherapy
Article: Understanding Memory Reconsolidation
Article: Memory Reconsolidation Understood and Misunderstood
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and therapy * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstien
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstien
Podcast Producer: Bridger Falkenstien
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
The post Feeling What We Remember – Interview with Bruce Ecker appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Melissa and Jen continue their exploration of the first chapter of Francine Shapiro’s seminal text, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures, now in it’s third edition. We would love for you to follow along with us so please find your way to a copy of the book if you can and join the conversation!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and therapy * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstein
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstein
Filmographer: Tyler Wassam
Podcast Producer: Jamie Eggert
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
Show Notes: Jordan Murray-Harper
The post Designed to Heal and Be Well: Adaptive Information Processing & EMDR appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Melissa, Jen, and Bridger’s first episode in the new Back to Basics season on Notice That. This episode includes reflection on the first half of chapter one in Francine Shapiro’s Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy (3rd ed). We would love for you to join along so if you’re able, please check out Francine’s landmark publication and join us here at Notice That.
Here’s a link to Francine’s text on Amazon, we encourage you to get a copy of the book wherever you feel comfortable:
Additionally, we mentioned a few articles in the episode that we’d like to share with you.
Here’s Peter Lang’s Imagery in Therapy: An Information Processing Analysis of Fear
Here’s Gordon Bower’s Mood and Memory
Here’s Joseph Wolpe’s Psychotherapy by Reciprocal Inhibition
We would love for you to give your feedback on the episodes by joining us on Beyond Healing Community
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and therapy * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstein
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstein
Filmographer: Tyler Wassam
Podcast Producer: Jamie Eggert
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
Show Notes: Jordan Murray-Harper
The post Back to Basics – Season Introduction appeared first on Notice That.
Show Notes
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger’s conversation with Jackie Flynn about using Polyvagal theory and EMDR when working with kids. This episode initially appeared on the Notice That podcast in February of 2022.
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and therapy * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstein
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstein
Filmographer: Tyler Wassam
Podcast Producer: Jamie Eggert
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
Show Notes: Jordan Murray-Harper
The post Polyvagal Theory and EMDR with Kids – Interview with Jackie Flynn – Winter Repost appeared first on Notice That.
Happy holidays from Beyond! This is a repost of our episode on working with Ego states using EMDR. We are so grateful for your continued listening and support of the Notice That podcast and we can’t wait to share our Back to the Basics season coming in February. Stay tuned!
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and therapy * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstein
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstein
Filmographer: Tyler Wassam
Podcast Producer: Jamie Eggert
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
Show Notes: Jordan Murray-Harper
The post Ego State Work and Interacting with Parts – Winter Repost appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Melissa and Jen’s conversation with Jamie Marich about dissociation and EMDR.
For more information about Jamie’s work and how to contact them, take a look at her wonderful websites:
https://www.drjamiemarich.com/
https://www.redefinetherapyreading.com/
https://www.traumamadesimple.com/
https://www.instituteforcreativemindfulness.com
Did you know? After full completion of Beyond Healing Institute’s Somatic Integration and Processing training, each participant can receive 21 NBCC hours.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and therapy * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstein
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstein
Filmographer: Tyler Wassam
Podcast Producer: Jamie Eggert
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
Show Notes: Jordan Murray-Harper
The post Dissociation Made Simple – Interview with Jamie Marich appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger’s discussion with Annie Monaco and Nicole Wolasz where they discuss the ins and outs of working with teens and their families using EMDR. To learn more about the work Annie and Nicole are doing in the world, here’s a bit of information from Annie:Trauma Institute and Child Trauma Institute TrainingsI am a faculty member of the Trauma Institute and Child Trauma Institute. I provide trainings in the following: EMDR and Progressive Counting. Descriptions can be found on the Trauma Institute website at childtrauma.com. I provide workshop trainings locally, nationally, internationally and virtually.
EMDR Basic Training in EMDR TrainingEMDRIA-Approved training in EMDR Therapy. This course is the complete basic training and includes the required consultation. 40 CE’s are included.
For more information, contact me or see the Trauma Institute/Child Trauma Institute EMDR Basic Training description.
- Pre-Approval from me is necessary prior to registering
- All dates are mandatory. You must attend all hours of the training.
- The course is designed for you to learn and practice in between modules.
- You must have an active caseload to take the course.
- Most participants have 3 years or more clinical experience before taking this advanced level trauma-treatment course.
- EMDR trainings conducted virtually as well. I can conduct EMDR trainings in your state or country.
Progressive Countinghttp://www.childtrauma.com/training/pc/With Nicole Wolasz, LCSWR, we offer this extensive trauma therapy training locally and nationally. This is a hands-on clinical skills training for working with children and teens that have been exposed to significant trauma or loss. This in-depth extended training will cover impact of trauma and loss, identification and assessment of traumatized individuals, working with parents and other caregivers to help traumatized kids, practicing scripted interventions that directly helping clients to manage their symptoms. Therapists will also learn to resolve trauma/loss memories via Progressive Counting (PC).
Past Trainings* Virtual Trainings conducted 2020 to present * In person trainings from 2015 to present * Child & Adolescent Trauma Training (PC included): St. Lucia, assisted Dr. Greenwald. * Child and Adolescent Trauma Training for Case Managers: Certificate Program for the Child Welfare Training Academy (CWTA) in Washington, DC. July to September 2014. * Child Trauma Institute Certificate Program. Co-facilitated with Nicole Wolasz (2012) * Child Trauma Institute extended training: (3 years) Catholic Charities. Co-facilitated with Jerry Kelly and Ann Beckley-Forest (2010 to 2013). * Child Trauma Institute extended training: (2 years) Child & Family Services (2010 to 2011) * Progressive Counting Trainings are held every year. Integrating Play Therapy and EMDRWith Ann Beckley-Forest, LCSW, RPT-S, we offer integration of Play therapy and EMDR Therapy. We offer these trainings locally, nationally, and in Asia (China and Singapore). Our book was released during September 2020 EMDR with Children in the Play Therapy Room: An integrated Approach.
Visit the Playful EMDR website to view and purchase the book
Attachment and Dissociation WorkshopsWorkshops on the topics of Attachment and Dissociation in Children and Adults are on the upcoming trainings page. The workshop includes many attachment interventions as well as ways to manage dissociation. We offer these trainings virtually, locally and nationally.
Dealing with Challenging Clients: Why Don’t They Just Get Over It?This workshop is based on the Strategies for Trauma Awareness & Resilience (STAR) program through the Center for Justice and Peacebuilding through the Eastern Mennonite University. I am a STAR Level 2 trainer and I provide these experiential workshops locally and nationally with Sue Klassen, MA in conflict transformation with an emphasis on Restorative Justice. These trainings are for human service professionals and para-professionals such as mediators, lawyers, clergy, human service workers and anyone working with potentially traumatized individuals.
In the experiential training you can learn the following:
- Common responses to trauma: emotional, cognitive, physical, spiritual, behavioral
- Transforming trauma: breaking the cycles of victimhood & violence
- Trauma intervention for individuals, communities, and societies
- Self-care for leaders and caregivers
- Restorative justice as a response to trauma—reconciling victims and offenders
Learn more on the STAR website.
Managing Dissociative Symptoms Using Soothing and Grounding ToolsWith Nicole Wolasz, LCSWR, we offer this training locally and nationally. This training provides an opportunity for staff and clinicians working with children, adolescents and young adults to increase their confidence in talking to clients about trauma, identifying dissociative symptoms, and to effectively manage these symptoms through creative and play-based soothing and grounding tools.
This workshop will provide scripts, demonstration video’s, and photo images of varied ways of using the techniques. Participants will also practice a variety of the 30 soothing and grounding tools.
Trauma Informed Trainings for Schools, Agencies and OrganizationsI provide trauma trainings to many schools, agencies, and organizations in the area and out of state. Trainings range from 3 hours to a full day.
Contact BHC* Our Website * Contact us about retreats and therapy * Contact us about training and consultation * Request to join the Beyond Healing Community here! * Check out the EMDR Supplement and other resources here!
Think Beyond Podcasts:* Patreon * Don’t forget to check out the past two seasons of Notice That! * Evidence-Based Therapist – where we read so you don’t have to! * Beyond Trauma – geared towards clients * Burnt Out Educator – An interview-style podcast for educators and students * Patreon
Support a Child with a Donation Today! Donate here! * 100% of the proceeds donated to the Burntout Educator will provide high quality therapy for a child in the public school system*.
Connect with us on social media: Facebook & Instagram CreditsExecutive Directors: Jennifer and Ryan Savage, Melissa Bentinnedi, Bridger Falkenstein
Hosts: Jennifer Savage, Melissa Benintendi, and Bridger Falkenstein
Filmographer: Tyler Wassam
Podcast Producer: Jamie Eggert
Original Music Composers: Bridger Falkenstein and Caleb Boston
Show Notes: Jordan Murray-Harper
The post EMDR with Teens and Families – Interview with Annie Monaco and Nicole Wolasz appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger's discussion with Annie Monaco and Nicole Wolasz where they discuss the ins and outs of working with teens and their families using EMDR.
To learn more about the work Annie and Nicole are doing in the world, here's a bit of information from Annie:
Trauma Institute and Child Trauma Institute Trainings
I am a faculty member of the Trauma Institute and Child Trauma Institute. I provide trainings in the following: EMDR and Progressive Counting. Descriptions can be found on the Trauma Institute website at childtrauma.com. I provide workshop trainings locally, nationally, internationally and virtually.
EMDR Basic Training in EMDR Training
EMDRIA-Approved training in EMDR Therapy. This course is the complete basic training and includes the required consultation. 40 CE’s are included.
For more information, contact me or see the Trauma Institute/Child Trauma Institute EMDR Basic Training description.
- Pre-Approval from me is necessary prior to registering
- All dates are mandatory. You must attend all hours of the training.
- The course is designed for you to learn and practice in between modules.
- You must have an active caseload to take the course.
- Most participants have 3 years or more clinical experience before taking this advanced level trauma-treatment course.
- EMDR trainings conducted virtually as well. I can conduct EMDR trainings in your state or country.
Progressive Counting
http://www.childtrauma.com/training/pc/
With Nicole Wolasz, LCSWR, we offer this extensive trauma therapy training locally and nationally. This is a hands-on clinical skills training for working with children and teens that have been exposed to significant trauma or loss. This in-depth extended training will cover impact of trauma and loss, identification and assessment of traumatized individuals, working with parents and other caregivers to help traumatized kids, practicing scripted interventions that directly helping clients to manage their symptoms. Therapists will also learn to resolve trauma/loss memories via Progressive Counting (PC).
Past Trainings
- Virtual Trainings conducted 2020 to present
- In person trainings from 2015 to present
- Child & Adolescent Trauma Training (PC included): St. Lucia, assisted Dr. Greenwald.
- Child and Adolescent Trauma Training for Case Managers: Certificate Program for the Child Welfare Training Academy (CWTA) in Washington, DC. July to September 2014.
- Child Trauma Institute Certificate Program. Co-facilitated with Nicole Wolasz (2012)
- Child Trauma Institute extended training: (3 years) Catholic Charities. Co-facilitated with Jerry Kelly and Ann Beckley-Forest (2010 to 2013).
- Child Trauma Institute extended training: (2 years) Child & Family Services (2010 to 2011)
- Progressive Counting Trainings are held every year.
Integrating Play Therapy and EMDR
With Ann Beckley-Forest, LCSW, RPT-S, we offer integration of Play therapy and EMDR Therapy. We offer these trainings locally, nationally, and in Asia (China and Singapore). Our book was released during September 2020 EMDR with Children in the Play Therapy Room: An integrated Approach.
Visit the Playful EMDR website to view and purchase the book
Attachment and Dissociation Workshops
Workshops on the topics of Attachment and Dissociation in Children and Adults are on the upcoming trainings page. The workshop includes many attachment interventions as well as ways to manage dissociation. We offer these trainings virtually, locally and nationally.
Dealing with Challenging Clients: Why Don’t They Just Get Over It?
This workshop is based on the Strategies for Trauma Awareness & Resilience (STAR) program through the Center for Justice and Peacebuilding through the Eastern Mennonite University. I am a STAR Level 2 trainer and I provide these experiential workshops locally and nationally with Sue Klassen, MA in conflict transformation with an emphasis on Restorative Justice. These trainings are for human service professionals and para-professionals such as mediators, lawyers, clergy, human service workers and anyone working with potentially traumatized individuals.
In the experiential training you can learn the following:
- Common responses to trauma: emotional, cognitive, physical, spiritual, behavioral
- Transforming trauma: breaking the cycles of victimhood & violence
- Trauma intervention for individuals, communities, and societies
- Self-care for leaders and caregivers
- Restorative justice as a response to trauma—reconciling victims and offenders
Learn more on the STAR website.
Managing Dissociative Symptoms Using Soothing and Grounding Tools
With Nicole Wolasz, LCSWR, we offer this training locally and nationally. This training provides an opportunity for staff and clinicians working with children, adolescents and young adults to increase their confidence in talking to clients about trauma, identifying dissociative symptoms, and to effectively manage these symptoms through creative and play-based soothing and grounding tools.
This workshop will provide scripts, demonstration video’s, and photo images of varied ways of using the techniques. Participants will also practice a variety of the 30 soothing and grounding tools.
Trauma Informed Trainings for Schools, Agencies and Organizations
I provide trauma trainings to many schools, agencies, and organizations in the area and out of state. Trainings range from 3 hours to a full day.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The post Every Memory Deserves Respect (EMDR): Interview with Deborah Korn and Michael Bowman appeared first on Notice That.
Listen in to hear Jen's interview with Deborah Korn and Michael Baldwin as they discuss the relationship between therapist and client in EMDR and talk about their new book entitled "Every Memory Deserves Respect: EMDR, the Proven Trauma Therapy with Power to Heal". You can find this book by searching its title in your favorite search engine. For more information on the book, here's the description presented on the back of the book:
An introduction to EMDR, a proven trauma therapy with the power to heal, cowritten by a world-renowned therapist and a patient who experienced transformative relief through EMDR therapy.
Trauma is a part of life.
You or someone you care about has probably experienced trauma, whether “big-T” trauma, such as emotional, physical, or sexual abuse or the more common but no less significant “little-t” trauma that can result from divorce, job loss, painful childhood experiences, or any situation where you felt worthless, afraid, or powerless. Untreated trauma can lead to long lasting effects such as depression, anxiety, PTSD, and difficulties maintaining intimate relationships.
But the good news is that we can heal—and it doesn’t have to take a lifetime. EMDR (which stands for Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) is a unique type of psychotherapy proven to help people recover from trauma and improve the quality of their lives.
Cowritten by a patient who experienced transformative relief from trauma through EMDR therapy, and a world-renowned psychologist who explains exactly how and why EMDR works, Every Memory Deserves Respect provides clear information while offering inspiration and hope.
Through compelling science, personal stories, and powerful photographic images, we learn how trauma is stored in the brain and body, continuing to cause pain and suffering, and how EMDR frees us by repatterning our thinking and emotional reactions. It explains why talk therapy has only a limited impact on trauma recovery, describes what to expect from gentle and targeted EMDR therapy, and offers guidance on how to find a therapist who is just right for you.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Listen in to hear Melissa and Bridger from Beyond talk about the process of professional development as professional healers and EMDR Therapists.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Fly on the wall
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The post Interview with Ann Beckley Forest and Annie Monoco appeared first on Notice That.
This week Jen interviews Ann Beckley Forest and Annie Monoco
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Melissa interviews Beth Segaloff about working somatically in EMDR.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The post Working Somatically with EMDR: Interview with Beth Segaloff appeared first on Notice That.
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A resource for containing distressing material that can be used to manage stress as it comes up during daily life. It can also be used for containing memories or material that comes up during reprocessing that isn’t ready to be processed.
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