with Jeff Dorchen follows the interview.Check out William and Ben's book here: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/william-d-hartung/the-trillion-dollar-war-machine/9781645030638/Help keep This Is Hell! completely listener supported and access bonus episodes by subscribing to our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thisishellPlease rate and review This Is Hell! wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps the show ascend the algorithm to reach new listeners.