with Jeff Dorchen follows the interview.Check out Philips book here: https://thenewpress.org/books/the-great-white-hoax/?v=eb65bcceaa5fHelp keep This Is Hell! completely listener supported and access bonus episodes by subscribing to our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thisishellPlease rate and review This Is Hell! wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps the show ascend the algorithm to reach new listeners.