This time our guest is designer Germans Ermičs. We talk about borders between art and design, and business side of design practice.

M: Glad to see you in such form after 11 years. Our previous video interview was 11 years ago. We had the “Naked Conversations”, and there are few things that will be interesting to look back on. Back then you were strictly a graphic designer. You made the layout for Veto Magazine. When I think about you, what jumps out to me is what has happened in your work and career during the past eleven years since we last spoke. You worked in one design branch and now you work in another design branch which is borderline art and architecture. How do you look at your decade? How has it changed you in the design sense? How did you see it then and how do you see the design now?

G: Ten years ago I had just graduated from the Design Academy. I tried to find myself and understand what I like, what I’m capable of and what direction should I take. Even back then I said that I want to step away from graphic design in order to apply what I learned in the Design Academy, work with materials and forms, think about interior, design objects etc... That was still at fantasy level, none of it was actualized since it was the very beginning. Back then I said it out loud, while still not quite believing and seeing it. After Riga, I went back to Amsterdam to work at various design studious to get a sense of how business is built, how to work with clients, since all my previous experience was very local and among friends, it concerned small orders and graphic design. I had no experience with being within a structure. It was very important, so that in three years I could leave and create my own studio. At that moment you take a huge risk, cut off everything and start to focus on what you’d like to do, without really knowing what that is. It was a really cool moment of uncertainty. I was stuck between several directions, and what helped me was the Design Academy network and being in Netherlands, because I studied there, and I was drawn in by the community, where I still remain now.

M: What do you think about the comment that your latest work is a zone between several branches – art, design and architecture? What is design and art to you and where do you see yourself in all that?

G: As I said, at the beginning I was stuck between several directions. I tried to understand if I could be an industrial designer and work with companies, create products and be technical. At that moment all directions were still a possibility, however my skills were limited. I learned that my strengths are working with materials and conceptual project planning that are borderline art, design, installations. It’s a separate niche, a whole market that exists between art and design – sculptural design. Designers and artists work with relatively industrial objects and furniture, but they are created as unique and sculptural objects, which I find very interesting, because it allows you to find your signature style and material and express yourself. They are usable objects, but they serve as decoration next to works of art. The niche that I work in is very interesting to me, it allows me to freely work in various scales. It can be a small object, an installation. You just adapt it to your signature and type of work. It also creates a demand for you. New projects, new challenges that enable you to grow. For example, if I create something small, I’m often struck by what kind of people are attracted by that. When working with architects or interior designers, you get involved in projects and provided with new contexts. In that sense, the work that I do daily varies quite a lot. All the things you mentioned – architecture, interior design or object design, it mostly applies to how I work with materials.

M: It means that the difference between industrial design and your design work is that the product is not mass produced.

G: Yes, they mostly are limited-amount objects, gallery objects come in limited amount of eight or twelve. It depends on the object. But mostly they exist as unique objects. It can be a site-specific installation or something really unique, specially made for a specific project or client.

M: It means that the design object you create cannot be purchased in physical or online shops, but you can buy it in a gallery, or you can order it as a special piece of art.

G: Yes, I work with galleries and architects in specific projects, and I cooperate with brands in projects of various scale. Those are not easily accessible products, but the internet is huge and people find you in the most interesting ways, starting from Pinterest, Facebook and Instagram etc. By the way, it’s an interesting moment – the way people stumble upon your work, how they initiate communication with you.

M: What are some of the most interesting situations?

G: Back in 2015, I wasn’t using Instagram professionally, but I used it to show my friends where I am and what I eat. There was a work that I was showing in Milan, and people from New York Times had taken a photo and posted it in one of their design pages. That same day I got a call from a designer in New York, and she asked me how much my works cost. I was like, how do you know what I’m showing here and how did you find me? I just couldn’t believe that it could happen so fast. It was the very beginning and that’s when I understood it really works that way. I believe in physical contact between people and communication, when you are present, you meet people and create a relationship of sorts. It doesn’t happen quickly and it’s how I have made the most interesting contacts, by being there and showing my work, by contacting people year after year, by meeting in various events. The design and art scene isn’t very big, it consists of the same events in the calendar, people only travel and meet. I definitely advise new designers to try to break out of the internet and the borders of their country.

M: As a standard, you would think design is something where you have a client or a task, but art is your self-expression based on your own initiative. Like you said, you work in-between these two things. Can you tell me about your process, where you begin with your own initiative, which more resembles art, but also involves a client? How do you set your boundaries regarding what is design and what is art?

G: For about a year there has been a momentum where you just work according to the developed formula or ideas. Or there are people who come to you with specific requests or they want to develop something with you. At the very beginning, you, of course, don’t have a problem to solve, in the best case scenario you can create a problem and then try to solve it. That was the interesting moment when I began to work, you invent something and you have no idea if anyone will be interested in it. Whether after the exhibition you will be broke and looking for a job or you’ll be able to continue and survive until the next year. I got very lucky after the first year, when in 2015 I showed my first collection in Milan. That’s when I thought that either everything is about to happen or I will come home and look for a job. At that moment you start with a clean idea and materials in order to introduce yourself.

M: You said that after the studies you were interested how business is built in the design sector where there are design studios with individual models. Can you outline the business model in your situation? In art there’s one way how art is monetized. In standard studios you fulfil incoming orders. Your work consists partially of your own initiative, where you develop new ideas, create demand and then get orders. How do you structurize the creative side of business?

G: At the very beginning, when I started my design practice, I made several important decisions. One of these decisions was that I will focus only on the design work. In Netherlands it’s a common practice that many designers are also the craftsmen, they find unique material compositions and forms, they work, they produce, they have people who make these things. I made a decision that I don’t want to do that. Not because I found it difficult or bad, but I just understood that I would rather focus solely on the design work and look for manufacturers and craftsmen to cooperate with in the execution of these orders. When it comes to business, the set-up is as follows: you have collections that are given to galleries and presented. That part is sold and exhibited and it’s an investment that the gallery makes. There are daily tasks. Since the material I work with is quite unique, I have the opportunity to use it very diversely. We have more simple money jobs and then we have gallery jobs. It’s a balance between these two things, which allows me to invest in the works I create on my own initiative, where you just invest and see if it works. It works well for PR. At the end of the day, you only have as many hours as you have. You can’t do everything. You want to have an interesting job. It’s not always about money, but it’s essential that you’re able to support your business.

M: What do you do from the creative business side in order to be sure that after two, three years someone will come and invite you to collaborate on a project?

G: Well said about the two, three years. It always takes quite a lot of time. You create something that seems interesting to you and maybe to someone else, then usually comes a media wave, Instagram explodes, but the monetization doesn’t happen so fast. I experienced it in 2017 with the first chair I made. The media coverage was great, but the projects, the selling and buying doesn’t just happen – you have to work hard on that. You mentioned exhibitions, I’ve always thought it’s essential that people meet you and see your work. I’ve also always paid attention to having excellent photos that you can show on media and internet. At the end your work mostly exists on the internet. Exhibitions take place for a month, two months. The exhibition is seen by a few hundred people, but the rest will exist on the internet, and I think it’s very important. I try to actively participate in exhibitions. Of course, there have been much less of those for almost two years. I work with media. Every now and then I try to create new projects. It’s important to surface now and then and show you’re still there. As with the romantic idea of being a designer and managing a studio, your daily work actually involves sitting down while you write e-mails and call people, and that’s the truth. And then there a few hours at the evening when you can draw and think with a clear head about some cool ideas. It’s mostly a communication that you continue to initiate, develop and renew in all sorts of ways.

M: You are currently trying to get into a new material, into new branches. One way would be to start working with glass, get really deep into that and become a great expert in respect of one material, however you have now chosen to take up a completely new material and evolve yourself with this one and then the next one. What is your thinking behind this diversification of materials instead of getting deep into one material?

G: I have gone quite far with glass and I still find it interesting, surprising and challenging. Things will always differ from project to project, but I have always stressed that I’m not a glass designer or artist, it’s a phase that I’m currently working in. I’m mostly interested in colour; work with colour as an idea, as a form. Now, getting into natural stone, I’m interested in the natural pattern of stone and the tangible texture I can create. In general, the idea is exactly the same as with colour. The colour is what we see spread out flat or on the screen and I work towards proving the colour with form in clear glass. Now I’m thinking about marble, which is always smooth, perfectly polished. How to accentuate the natural beauty with texture. It’s once again turning 2D into 3D.

M: You mentioned the chair you created in 2017, right?

G: Yes.

M: It has physically appeared in one or two exhibitions, and then it’s in a few photos you have taken. The photo of the chair is more alive than the actual chair. More people have sat in it with eyes than sat physically. It’s interesting how important one photo can be, and it resonates for so many years and to more people than the physical product.

G: It was a major surprise to me. Of course, I made sure from the start that there’s a good photo. The photo itself takes work. My chair being there is one thing, but it’s not the chair – it’s a photo. Without knowing these things and the possible effect, we did everything in good conscience. I’m still very surprised at how much power is held in one photo that is still in rotation, keeps getting published. It already has been published numerous times, yet every month I still get press kit requests for publishing in this and that magazine.

M: Your chair was recently purchased by the Museum of Decorative Arts and Design of Latvia, which basically is a small, but significant moment in the sense that it has become an icon in the context of Latvia and bridges the gap between design and art, by receiving recognition from the local art. It’s cool even though we’re a small country. What do you think about your starting point being Latvia? Now you live in Amsterdam, you mostly work in Amsterdam. What does it mean to your contact network and clients that you’re from Riga or Amsterdam? Do you feel it resonating when you tell about where you have come from?

G: At least in my case, at the moment it’s not important where you are from. Where you live now is what might help you, if you are closer to things. The art and design radar not always reaches us, but if you’re in Amsterdam, you’re in the centre of things. It’s not a megapolis, but still is an easily reachable and understandable place. If I were in Riga, I might think it’s too unattainable. It’s not just about Latvia. My Finnish friend, who is a great photographer that I work with, also thinks that if he were in Finland, he would be unreachable for jobs and contacts in Europe and that he would be just too far physically.

M: What I really like about your niche in-between design and art is that this branch pushes you to package your art. If we consider your chair as a piece of art, and you have called yourself an artist in interviews. It pushes you to package the art professionally, making it understandable and readable to the audience.

G: It mostly pushes you to communicate differently. You’re aware of your audience, who is interested in you, who is your buyer, where will the contact take place. It makes you think about how you will communicate. I see it changing rapidly. When I graduated from school we understood nothing, we were just glad to finish school and have the final exhibition. Years later I attend the same graduate exhibition and they all have a professional set-up. They are ready to talk to the media. They have an Instagram account for their project, a special website. They have prepared so many things that I became aware of only years later. That is changing. Maybe it’s a generational thing. I definitely wasn’t like that when I finished school, and now I’m amazed by how evolved the modern youth is.

Germans Ermičs
http://germansermics.com/

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