The Overthinkers: Recent Episodes
Rachel Mercer & Shann Biglione
From big strategy questions to everyday marketing life realities, The Overthinkers is a weekly, 20 min conversation between two ex-marketing strategists: Rachel Mercer (@rachelmercer - co-founder and CXO at Proto) and Shann Biglione (@LeShann - co-founder and Head of Product at Kelp). It is for those who like to (over)think about our strategic planning, with delightful guests occasionally joining Rachel and Shann for extended discussions. Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Soundcloud.
Views represented and reflected are individually held and are not representative of Rachel and Shann's companies.
With the demise of the cookie monster and the supreme reign of a few internet giants, a lot of brands placed their bets on building first party data. Is that really the way of the future, and can brands sustainably grow without a strong 1st party data strategy anymore?
“You’re Dead In 18 Months Or Less” - Scott Galloway's ominous predictions for CMOs last week brought about a slight disturbance in the force. In this episode, we discuss the argument made against CMOs as we know them, as well as arguments for their possible redemption.
As global consciousness of the world's climate challenges rises, the role of advertising is being increasingly scrutinized. With large fossil fuel companies still using our services to project a greener image, the reality is that decades of deception have made them questionable clients to support. In an effort to stop the support provided by advertising to the industry, Clean Creatives has been ramping up efforts to pledge our industry to move away from those contracts. Joe Cole tells answers our tough questions and shares how the initiatives has succeeded from idea to a massive movement that is now permeating the industry.
Social Media platforms are often put on the map by (young) generations, but ageing with them seems to prove a difficult exercise. Does that generational gap make it harder, and what might allow them more trans-generational success?
Strategic planning inevitably requires the ability to rationalize information, but does great strategy require the ability to think creatively about it?
If you had to launch an agency from scratch today, how would you do it? What strategy or approach would you use? How would you stand out from competitors? Would you try to stay small and niche, or try to create the next WPP? This week's question is courtesy of listener Ian Barnard.
On the heels of Twitter's catastrophic rebranding, we are joined by Co:Collective's Snr Strategy Director, Jessica Lehmann Ash, to discuss not only what went wrong there, but how and when to potentially get it right. Rebranding (or even renaming) should never be taken lightly, often costing valuable equity to companies, but as you'll hear on this episode, it doesn't mean there aren't valuable moments to go through the exercise.
Brand, performance, social, programmatic, CRM, influencer, sponsoring, media, creative... There is a myriad of specialties in the world of advertising, and marketers are increasingly expected to be able to navigate any of them. Is it possible for them to be good at both the long and the short of it?
Threads has taken the world of social media by storm last week, growing in ways we'd never seen before. To discuss the platform's launch, its impact on marketers (and on Meta's product teams!), we're joined by Grace Freeman, Strategy Director and social media expert at Barbarian. The chance to share our hopes and fears for a platform that is breaking all sorts of records.
Barbie has been taking the film industry by storm - and the marketing community has noticed! This week we're joined by Moshe Isaacian, Brand Strategist, to talk about what's great about this campaign, and how it may rekindle a flame that has been somewhat lost in entertainment marketing.
A couple of years ago, Freakonomics discussed research that show zero to negative correlation between advertising and market effects. Apparently, marketers have been wasting all this money for nothing. During this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss the merits of the findings, and whether it approached the question in a way that does (or does not) capture the value of advertising for brands.
Between the loud voices of our industry and the stress of being judged for what you say, finding your voice on public forums can be intimidating for younger marketers. We're joined by John Lyons, Business Director at Gasp! to discuss how new voices can emerge, whether it be on their own or the support of more seasoned marketers.
We often talk about strategy and creative, yet client services are often the ones running the show and taking the top leadership position. To discuss what it takes to be an account leader, and whether it's right for them to take those business leadership roles, we are joined by Marina Biglione, Managing Director at Ogilvy NY.
As talent ebbs and flows in incestuous fashion between agencies that are increasingly large in size and geographic footprint, establishing an agency culture seems like a rare oddity. How are agency cultures established, and how can they be built in this day and age?
The debate over acquisition vs loyalty has rocked the marketing industry over the past 10 years. While loyalty is everywhere, how it is managed has raised a lot of question. But as we see the rise of digital ecosystems, are the rules changing?
For a while, subscription models were all the rage. Now, ad-supported is making a comeback. Is one better than the other, and what considerations should businesses take before going for one or the other (or, both)?
Generative AI is this year's buzzword. But unlike those who preceded it, the applications are wide and many, capturing a lot of people's imagination. This week, we discuss how the technology might change the way we work and do business in the world of advertising.
Advertising is increasingly a young person's game. Are the hardships of parenting one of the reasons why? And could advertising agencies approach this differently? Rachel and Shann share their thoughts as two new parents facing the reality of mother and fatherhood.
Bud Light experienced pretty severe backlash after putting the face of influencer Dylan Mulvaney on its cans (and on TikTok). As the brand tried to explore its new identity away from what it called "fratty humor", did they make a strategic mistake or were they just not prepared enough for what happened afterwards?
Snake oil salesmen, grifters, poseurs... There doesn't seem to be a shortage of people abusing our aspiration for what's shiny and new and our disdain for what's established ("everything has changed! Listen to my miracle solution!"). Is that really an issue in marketing, and are we, as a profession, more prone to it?
Twitter Blue has not been the success Elon Musk needed to defend the value of the social media giant - at least not yet. What has been plaguing it, and does it have a path forward?
We know how important business transformation is in consulting circles - it's on everyone's lips and every 10K filling. Considering how much change happens around us, it seems it would be a natural state of being, and yet, most times it's just a failure. Why is it so hard to transform when change is the norm?Note: apologies for Shann's audio track, it seems something went a little wrong during the recording!
Every now and then, we see agencies having years of success with a client. And yet, inevitably, one day the client calls a competitive pitch. Is that a fair practice? And even if it is, is it a situation where the client has more to lose than to gain?
Whether it's working on a category you don't consume nor like, or doing tasks that aren't your cup of tea, is it still possible to be good at what you do? And is it even advisable?
If ChatGPT can write better than a copywriter, are people going to lose their jobs? Or is AI going to be the new standard for mediocrity, bringing a golden age where we strive for more? This week we wonder how much AI will impact our jobs, in the short and long term.
Attention has (finally?) become a key topic in advertising over the last few years, inserting itself in the media debates around viewability. But before we start trading it, what exactly is attention, and is it really necessary for advertising to work? We're joined by Pranav Yadav, CEO of Neuro-Insights, who shares his perspective from the vantage point of neuro science and what happens in the brain.
Authenticity seems to be on every CMO's lips. Apparently the new kids on the consumer block are obsessed with it. But is it really possible for a brand to be authentic? And is it even part of the contemporary brand's must haves? Let us overthink this!
We like to think our work is pretty harmless, but what if marketing was only a form of propaganda, not the other way around? Does that make us more likely to do bad things? Is it harder to do right? Classic overthinking episode this week!
Strategists are often introverts, and meetings can be harder to navigate - especially those large sessions with countless stakeholders. Are there ways to better stand out and say the right thing, at the right time?
Almost 3 years into the pandemic, we've had plenty of opportunity to shift our work to a remote approach. Clearly strategic planning has not ended, but does remote work make it harder, or less effective? Does it reduce the role of the planner in the process, or does it reinforce it?
Of all practices in the boardroom, marketing tends to be one of the most opinionated about other people's work. With constant commentary on what is or isn't good marketing, it's not uncommon for passionate opinions to turn into aggressive (sometimes even abusive) takes. Is that specific to marketing? And what's driving it? People being assholes or natural dynamic of a very public output?This week, as Rachel takes on her new mommy duties, we're delighted to welcome Vanessa Toro as co-host of the podcast!
Joined by Farrah Bostic and Adam Pierno, co-hosts of In The Demo, a podcast that looks at how cohorts of people are best researched, understood and addressed, we discussed the failures of the demographic segmentation and how to build marketing plans for more meaningful audience groups.
The tech industry, which has come to dominate most of ad spends, has been facing some headwinds lately. Does that mean the tech Goliaths' struggle is good news for all the advertising Davids? Or could they take them in their swirl?
Some organisations have clear marketing guidelines and principles, others just go with the flow. Which ones are more likely to have an edge?
While still limited to its ice cream division, the decision to take a breather from purpose in favor of product superiority signals that cracks are showing in the purpose marketing chapel. Does it mean the edifice is coming down? Or simply that Unilever and co went a little too far?
Are all strategy just replicas of existing ones? Is it even a necessary objective of strategy to be original in and of itself? And if not, does that mean the job of strategy could be easily automated?
With layoffs sending shockwaves in the tech sector, what does that signal for the marketing industry? Are we likely to see problems, or could this be a welcome reprieve after years of those companies draining the talent pool?
Twitter and Facebook experiencing headwinds, calls to rein in their effect on mental health, declines in ad spend... It's a rough patch for social media platforms. But does that mean we're witnessing its downfall, as someone have claimed? Or is it more of a correction?
A lot of people make the switch from one side to the other. In this episode, Rachel and Shann share their experience working across both sides of the pond - and touch on the blending of in-house agencies.
Free speech or advertising, Elon's gonna have to choose. Considering he first started with an open letter to advertisers, he seems to care, but is he the right person to fix it?
Long working hours are often the norm in ad agencies - not that they're unique in that regard, but one thing people often describe after leaving them is a greater ease to balance things out. Can agencies get better at this - and should they?
It's very fanciful for agencies to introduce themselves to the world with a flashy "planning framework" of their own concoction. But as we basically keep relabelling the same principles over and over, is there really much worth in trying to create their own?
With the recent passing of legendary ad-man and founder Dan Wieden, Rachel and Shann ask themselves what it would take for a contemporary ad-person to leave a mark as big as the likes of Widen and Kennedy did - and whether there even is someone with that profile right now. A chance to discuss how those kinds of legacies are created, and if they're even that necessary in the first place.
Big milestones today: The Overthinkers turns 3 with this 150th episode, and marks its 200,000 listens to date. To celebrate, we bring the man that we pretty much owe this podcast to, Mark Pollard. Not only did he introduce us, he also inspired us to make our own thing. And this will be the topic this week - at some point all of us ask ourselves what life is like beyond the work we do in ad agencies. During this hour, we went pretty deep and personal about our fears, our joys, our stresses, and our achievements as the three of us took forks in our careers. This obviously comes from three strategists, but probably reflects a wider sentiment across other specialties. Thanks again for listening for all those years, and if you're new, welcome!
Understanding culture - whether to fit in or to define it - is a fairly common exercise in strategic planning. What does that cover? What are the pitfalls? And is it really an obligation to succeed?
Business leaders often struggle to embrace complexity, and certainly have a fear of uncertainty. In this episode, Steve McCrone tells us more about how embracing those could be turned into strategic advantage.
Is paid advertising the mark of unremarkable brands? Or is it an essential step to grow into a big brand?
Words and opinion play an important part in strategy, and it's not uncommon to see strategists writing, recording or presenting their thinking. Many famed strategists are regular contributors, and would qualify as thought leaders. But does that mean thought leadership is part of the job description?
Some accounts are infamous for making it hard to attract or retain talent. In many instances, broken relationships between those and their agencies can lead to job dissatisfaction, burn out etc. Does this mean clients have a responsibility to play in talent retention - and thus should they be held accountable for it?
We've all heard the statement: "we launched without spending on marketing!". And yet you have plenty of marketing activities - just no paid advertising. Marketers equating marketing with advertising media spend is unnerving. But where does it come from, and how can we put an end to this?
We're getting close to raise cycles, so this week we're discussing our recommendations to better get the promotion you think you deserve!
Economics are rarely part of the marketing curriculum. And yet economics inevitably play a role in how the markets we operate in behave. Does that mean marketers should be well tuned to economics (macro or micro)? And if yes, what kind of sources can they tap into to familiarise themselves with economic dynamics?
Access to employee salaries, review of profits, constant pitching, threats to lose an account, looking down on agency staff... There is a long list of realities that seem to have placed agencies at the bottom of the marketing food chain. And in the process, have we lost what made our voices heard?
CMOs are supposed to be at the top of our industry... but are they always? This week we're joined by Seth Matlins, Managing Director at Forbes CMO Network, to discuss whether CMOs have been pushed out of the top leadership of companies - and if they have, how can they reclaim a seat at the big decision making table? Seth's unique perspective as an ex-marketer himself and now interacting daily with CMOs as part of Forbes' CMO Network gave us a lot to think about and provides inspiration for marketers of all levels.
Brace yourselves! Recessions are rarely good news for marketers. So what to expect as an industry and personally? And should it really be that way, or are there means to "make the most" of a recession?
It's an oft-repeated trope: deep down the strategist is a frustrated creative wanabee. But is that really so common? Or could it be an expression of the tighter relationship between strategy and creative?
We take a question from listener Lexie Perez this week. Creative testing has been the bane of many creatives' existence. Too soon, too biased, too incomplete, too limiting, too vanilla... At the same time, for many companies millions of dollars are at stake, and few would want to take stabs in the dark. So is creative testing (and pre-testing in particular) harmful for great creativity?
Audience definition is a core part of marketing. Unfortunately, in too many cases marketers end up with a poorly or outright wrong definition of their "target". A chance to address the problems with personas, over targeting, and the general lack of actionability behind most targeting exercises.
Sometimes, getting a budget out of a client is like pulling teeth. "Tell us a great idea, and we'll find the budget", we're often told. But in reality, budgets are rarely coming out of thin air, and play an important role in framing what's really possible. Does that mean they're an essential - if not the most important part of the brief?
Recessions have a tendency to burst bubbles. And while the jury's still out, there sure has been a lot of hype around the future of the metaverse or Web3. This week, Rachel and Shann are joined by Zoe Scaman, founder of Bodacious and co-founder of Marc Cuban Experiments (MCX), to discuss whether there is more to the hype, and how companies might separate the wheat from the chaff.
Today, listener Matt Jukes asks us whether the legacy agency structures (suits&creatives, art directors & copywriters etc) was holding back creative work. As ever it likely depends, but coming on the heels of a very inspiring episode with the folks at Maximum Effort, we definitely think it's a question worth discussing.
When Ryan Reynolds got into the world of advertising with Maximum Effort, a whirlwind of exciting campaigns started to pop - starting with his own Aviation and Mint Mobile ventures, or working with client brands like Peloton (recently reacting to the death of Big in record time). We're joined by two brilliant strategists at the heart of the company, James Toney and John Deschner who tell us more about what it's like to work on big ideas that can be executed in 48 hours, how it pays off, and what it takes to deliver them - with or without Ryan Reynolds in the mix.
Let's face it, most of marketing is pretty mediocre. There's a reason people decide it is worth blocking altogether when they have the chance or technical resources. But why is that? Is it a lack of ambition? Guts? Or maybe a remnant of something that might have worked in the past?
Agencies' business model has often been debated, but rarely agreed upon. Is it even possible "radically" change it when virtually everything has been tested yet? This week, Rachel and Shann share their thoughts as agency co-founder and ex-agency people.
Unusual question? Well, apparently it's not an unusual assumption. Sometimes it's even a lamentation from clients: "how come do the people who work for me agency side are paid more than I am?"
In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss whether this thinking has merit, what may be driving it, and also where it may be taking the service industry.
Ad tracking has become one of the most common tools of "modern advertising". But as regulators start legislating more and more against it (and some big tech companies taking stances "protecting" us from it), one has to wonder, what will happen to the advertising industry? Do we go back to the bright ages of creativity? Do small businesses lose a key competitive advantage? Is it all a storm in a teacup anyway and we end up simply using contextual targeting?
While TV isn't dead (at least not yet), there has been a clear trend towards a diminishing inventory and massive changes in watching behaviors. With advertising being so heavily reliant (at least historically) on TV advertising, could that industry survive it, or are we headed towards mostly performance based advertising?
Strategy might be too important to be left to the strategist. Does a "strategist" need them to champion - or even to formulate - it? Or is that more of a shared responsibility anyway? And if not, what would that say about the future of strategy as a profession?
Portfolio schools have proven effective at giving many people the chance to learn practical (and sellable) skills that made them ready to join advertising teams. But in light of the news that Creative Circus will be closing at the end of the year, we asked ourselves whether those curriculums were still relevant, or whether this may be the first domino to fall?
Innovation is on most corporations' agenda, but not on many's list of achievements. This week, we're joined by three exceptional innovation leaders to discuss how companies can better foster a culture of innovation: - Lan Guo, User Research Manager, Business Messaging @ Meta - Mary Catherine Plunkett, Sr Director Customer Success Design @ Autodesk - Leslie Llado Social Enterprise Lead @ Splash International, an NGO designing child-focused water, sanitation, hygiene, & menstrual health solutions in Asia & Africa.
Purpose (the "making society better" kind) has been hailed as a great booster for business. While the practice is likely valuable, do we really see difference between brands that have a strong purpose and those that do not? In this episode, we talk about the way purpose influences reputation, perception, and maybe business results.
Subscription revenues is the new black in the world of business. Investors love them and tend to highly reward companies that can demonstrate not just revenues, but recurring revenues. Subscription markets even follow different loyalty patterns than repertoire markets. But is that really the future of business, and aren't there inherent limits to the model?
Strong leaders/founders can often shape the future of brands - Steve Jobs and Apple, Elon Musk and Tesla etc. In recent years, we've also seen the explosion of major content creators and influencers able to give brands some wings. Is this becoming the new playbook? And with a media world fragmenting and revolving more and more around people, should we expect it to be essential for brands building?
This week we're joined by the lovely Kim Mackenzie, founder of Ladies Who Strategize, a marketing strategist community specifically for women and non-binaries. In the episode, she tells us why she created it after years spent in New-Zealand, the spirit behind her community, what makes is so great and what she wants to see in the future.
On the heels of the Coinbase turmoil that made some waves this week, we ask ourselves what has led us to this position where agencies struggle to get credit for their work - and often struggle to even be seen as a valuable actor in the advertising industry?
Celebrities and advertising have been a love story for as long as most of us can remember. And as Superbowl kicked off, it is clear the trend is not reducing. But do celebrities really make brands stronger? Or is their use just a creative cop-out for when a brand doesn't really have an idea?
Today we're joined by Tattiana Bamba, Comms Strategy Director at Droga5, to talk about comms / connections planning. A chance to discuss what it does and what it doesn't do, as well as what it takes to be a comms planner and what it takes to be good at it. Whether you're eyeing a shit into comms planning or a veteran, we promise you won't miss the chance to hear what Tattiana has to say about it!
Over the last 5 years we've seen a growing trend celebrating "contrarianism". In this episode, we discuss whether this has a positive impact on the industry, whether it's reserved to a certain group of people, and the overall role of critique in moving us forward.
Hint: it's not behind a computer screen. This week, we're delighted to bring you 3 brilliant people from Nonfiction, Lindsey Wehking, Gunny Scarfo and Ben Zeidler. They tell us about their unique approach(es) to getting to more insightful truths, from spending time actually meeting people to making them comfortable to answer unexpected questions. First and foremost, theirs is a call to get out of the cage we're all putting ourselves into so that we can get to the questions that really matter.
Web 3 has been a buzzword of 2021, and as trends read are being rolled out, will no doubt be a feature of many outlooks. But is too early for brands to look at it, and will it really matter to marketers in the long term? To discuss this topic, we're joined by "technology meets brands" expert Nilesh Ashra, founder at Pragmatic Futurism and ex Director of Creative Technology at W+K.
It's pretty common for brands to use fear in their marketing to motivate purchase. Recently for example, we've seen Apple selling their watch on the premise it can save your life, when in fact 99.999% of use cases are not related to those events. Is there a fine line, or even a line at all that marketers can cross?
Off-the-cuff reactions happening within hours (sometimes minute) of pop culture unfolding are often celebrated in marketing circles. But are those "sparks of genius" really sustainable, or even meaningful to brands'?
NFTs have been making the corporate headlines lately, with the likes of Nike and Adidas taking big swings. Is this the beginning of the grand "mainstreamization", or just peak bubble?
Every strategist is familiar with the importance of "the deck". Often, the expectation is that the strategy is basically only expressed in slideware. Is that a good or a bad thing for strategic planning, and are there ways for us to make the most of those softwares without being enslaved to them?
Marketers have a core task of growing a company's market. Our mindset is always one about getting more value. But is that an aspiration the world needs? This week we're joined by Katie Dreke, ex-Nike / Droga5 / W+K, and independent consultant helping brands figure out how to survive longer term challenges.
Explosion of the number of channels, huge diversification of skillsets, slow death of effectiveness measures... A lot has been said about marketing being harder than ever, but is that true? Are we not simply "tactifying" our profession while forgetting the enduring fundamentals?
At some point in one's career, you'll be lucky enough to help mentor someone else. In this episode, Rachel and Shann share their experience and approach to mentoring others as they try to navigate the next phases of their career.
Award season is very fond of breakthrough campaigns. But somehow, those are very rarely followed by similarly inspiring ideas. They come and go, and what was the talk of town ends up catching dust on shelves. Why is that? Are marketers lying about their effectiveness? Incapable of striking gold twice? Or endlessly chasing the new?
Facebook's recent announcement they would now be known as Meta has certainly raised a few eyebrows. Is that a strategy to get past Facebook's flailing brand, and if so, can it succeed?
Getting the right client brief can be really hard. A recent study showed that 90% of agencies were not being briefed properly. So outside of a better template (where most companies seem to start), what do we think makes a brief good?
Purpose made the headlines (again) this week, with new research supporting the effectiveness of some purpose driven advertising. But even if sometimes purpose can work, can marketers generally serve a purpose beyond driving sales or profits?
According to a few, the years of advertising as we know it are counted. But even if the most likely outcome is that such predictions are wrong, it doesn't mean that working in advertising is as safe a career path as it might have once been.
"It's marketing." Three words that are usually used to describe something that is not worthy of anyone's time, misleading, if not even manipulating. What went wrong?
Big day for The Overthinkers! This is our 100th episode, can you believe it?! To celebrate, we take a stroll through some of the people that have (and still) inspire us in the marketing industry. People that are worth following, or at least paying attention to.
Well well well... This topic has been on the back of our minds for a little while. Our industry seems to be making progress, but for many it still rings hollow, and the mountain to climb still discouraging.
The client agency relationship is often a love-hate relationship. In this episode, Rachel and Shann explore how clients can set that relationship up for success and extract as much value as possible from their agency partners.
Strategy can be a central part of the pitch process, but what are the best contributions? And how rewarding (or unrewarding) can they be?
Having to deal with underperformers is a reality for all leaders at some point in their career. What approaches work best, and how can the event be used as a constructive step for the talent in question?
Sometimes things like they're too much (or too little) and the dream of just dropping everything is a temptation many people in corporations go through. Can this be overcome, and could it even be used to your advantage?
Innovation is generally a good thing to stay ahead of the game, but in many instances it can have perverse effects on a business. This week, Rachel and Shann explore some of the things they have seen hurting businesses, from using the wrong KPIs to generate draining clutter for both your teams and your customers.
Most modern marketing is obsessed with data, and "data-driven" marketing has often been pegged as the future of our industry (and generally, still is). But there have been many voices clashing with this certainty that being data-driven was the only way forward for our practice. As a matter of fact, could this be the hill on which marketing loses one of its superpowers?
In the last two decades we've seen a huge acceleration of the number of specialists in marketing, to the point where being a generalist is often described as a "master of none". This has been a problem because we often end up with siloed views and practitioners that fail to understand how their field inserts itself in the grand scheme of things. The question is whether being a generalist is still possible, or even valued?
Founding a business is equally scary and hypnotic. In this episode, Rachel and Shann share their impressions after starting new companies, and what it's been like pivoting from head of strategy type positions.
Very special guest this week with JP Castlin, self-proclaimed strategy nerd and one of the most interesting voices in our community. The question that got us started led us to discuss many big tickets, from the definition of strategy to the ways complexity limits the potential of strategic planning, and even talking about the similarities with evolutionary theory.
Since the mobile phone, we haven't had much in the way of hardware tech that has transformed the way we interact with the world. As a matter of fact, it's kinda hard to imagine we're going to see something as disruptive anytime soon. In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss what technologies they see potentially impacting experience design, and what excites them about these. Tune in for an unusual episode of The Overthinkers, taking a little bit of a science-fiction tangent.
Clearly having a purely objective strategy is an impossible task, but it does beg the question - what role can objectivity play in strategic planning, and what benefits are there from its subjective counterpoint?
Consumer segmentation can be a dangerous exercise - get it wrong and your strategy could completely fall apart, going after the wrong kinds of consumers or simply impractical. Coupled with digital means of targeting, and it can also lead businesses to buying against the wrong people in media. This week, we're joined by Anil Malhotra from ad-tech company Bango, exploring the virtues (and limits) of purchase based segmentations.
As we see the accelerated decline of linear TV leadership, leading voices of our industry are quick to equate that with the decline of brands, unable to access the means through which they were built. Is that really happening? And isn't there a case for that reality to actually reinforce the brands able to stand out?
Somewhat ironic question for a podcast called The Overthinkers... But often a real issue for strategists, who can easily get trapped in always wanting to add nuance to their thinking - sometimes at the cost of action. In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss how they try to stay in control of it, and how they try to manage it with others.
Let's be honest, the daily grind doesn't often feel like a massive win. Dealing with failure is something most of us have to learn to do at some point in our careers, and it can easily bleed into our overall happiness. So what can we do to better deal with those feelings, and how can we stay upbeat when all goes to shit?
Getting the right talent is critical for an agency business. But it seems incredibly harder for them to attract and retain talent. In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss whether agencies can pay and reward their talent in a way that is competitive and attractive, but also some of the ways in which they could be a more talent centric approach to the way their do their business.
Strategists tend to love their processes. Some even use them (wrongly) to define their work in the guise of "frameworks". Meanwhile, others tend to avoid them like the pest, preferring more chaotic and unstructured approaches. Of course the answer often lies in the middle, but how do we define this middle, and what should strategists keep in mind to make the most of them, without becoming slave to them?
Pitches are the daily life of agencies. While the world of media tends to see longer term contracts, many creative and activation pitches are on a project by project basis. Is that a healthy practice for the advertising industry? Does anyone profit from it more? Or does everybody lose in the long term?
This week we're joined by the awesome Minjae Ormes, CMO at Visible (part of Verizon) and one of the hottest telco brands in the US, to discuss the way a company's culture can influence its marketing department. A chance to discuss the ways in which the culture of the business can make or break its marketing output, some of the models we look up to, and what Minjae has brought to influence one of the largest companies in the world!
CX planning has become very fancy in advertising circles, but is often badly used or even misunderstood. This week, Rachel tells us more about how she sees the role of strategy to deliver better customer experiences.
Often debated, decried or revered, but rarely tenured. That's the reality of CMO, a job many of us aspire to as the ultimate goal, but one that is often hard to navigate. In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss the traits they think define the best CMOs, as well as some of the realities they have to contend with.
Coming at a problem with a sharp point of view can be daunting. Between the egos of the people you work for and your own insecurities, overcoming that can require leaps of faith and efforts that are hard or discouraging. Likewise, we have to establish the role of leaders to set a culture that welcomes points of view, and what it means to delegate.
It's part of the recurring questions our community loves to ask. Sat between "what is an insight?" and "what is strategy?", we've recently had a resurgence of debates surrounding the difference between planning and strategy. In this episode, we explore why it is we are so enamoured with it, and explore potential implications, whether you're a junior or senior strategist - and even as a client!
A slightly more personal than usual episode this week, where Rachel and Shann share some of the things they've fucked in their careers and what they've learned from it. As the self-aware, introspective superstar Rachel is, she did the the honours, while Shann was playing catch up trying to dig out all the wrongs he'd done.
Brands are often accused of putting glitter on a shit product. But is it really that simple? Are brands able to excuse poor quality? And vice versa, could a bad brand sink a good product?
Community Marketing has long been pegged to represent the future of how marketing would operate, promising brands the ability to get their fans and followers do the bidding. But in the past decade, we've seen both an evolution and a recognition of what community marketing can (or cannot) deliver for brands. To discuss its future, we're joined by Christina Garnett, one of the more insightful voices of the social media industry.
In-housing is a very common strategic shift for clients nowadays, and often seen as a risk to agencies. While it does have downsides in terms of immediate ownership and revenues, it's not necessarily a negative step for the ecosystem. In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss the good, the bad and the maybe sometimes ugly aspects of in-housing marketing services.
This week we're joined by one of the industry's best straight shooters, Derek Walker, to discuss his perspective on whether the quality of our industry's work has gone done or up (hint: Derek is not mincing words). A great opportunity to hear from a veteran who has seen it all, and to discuss pretty openly the dynamics at play, from client agency relationships to the growth of specialist shops, of holding companies and the focus on profit making.
We're beyond delighted to welcome Murray Calder this week, ex strategist from Edinburgh with experiences both client and agency side. As an integrator by heart, Murray joined us to discuss the ways in which media and creative (two worlds often pitted against one another) can work better together.
Let's be honest, we all love to be rewarded. But between the number of disciplines in major awards and the proliferation of xx over/under xx, the sheer volume over awards is skyrocketing. Is there still any value in them? Or are we all a bit too cynical for our own good?
Emotions have been at the heart of successful marketing for decades, and a strategy greatly popularized in the last decade by the work of Binet & Field. This week, we're joined by the brilliant Claire Strickett from adam&eveDDB to bring a grounded view on the importance of emotions. A chance to better define what we mean by emotions, and put to rest some of the many misconceptions peddled in our industry.
With Superbowl about to capture advertisers' attention (and purses), we discussed the current state - and worth of tentpole events for brands. Admittedly, this year is particularly special as the world still struggles with the pandemic, but is it even worth brands' attention to sponsor and participate in those tentpole media moments, or does it distract them from finding more ownable moments?
Over the last 30 years the agency business has seen some intense consolidation with holding company models. As our industry is coping with a second crisis a mere decade after the last one, do independent shops stand a chance or are they facing increasingly difficult odds to survive? Both Rachel and Shann started in independent agencies, and Rachel is even now launching her own, so clearly they both have hopes the independent spirit will prevail. But is it still the opportunity it once represented?
We're delighted to Welcome Nicki Sprinz, MD of Ustwo in London, a design studio famous for also producing mobile best-selling game Monument Valley and led with a very strong sense of purpose and values. Now, we're not talking of brand purpose here, but about what genuinely happens on the inside, and how it shows on the outside! The chance to hear about ways to build teams and cultures, but also to reflect on Ustwo's unique path to success around the world.
Note: apologies for the poor sound quality, we encountered some issues when recording Nicki's track. We tried to fix it but were not able to resolve it during the interview.
We have all some lines we wouldn't want our employer to cross. Sometimes, those lines are very public. If you want to change it, should you join the company that crosses them, or "fight" it from the outside?
To start off the new year, new you, we took a listener question from John Burke, asking ourselves when a strategist can feel their job is done. As we discuss in this episode, we believe there is a lot more to it than just the brief!
It's often hard for strategist to let others run their course. Put two strategists on a project, and you're likely to see two diverging views of how to get there. So how do you find ways to not only delegate, but also inspire others' thinking? And how to handle it when what you get is not what you think is right?
This will be our last episode for the year, as we take a break. Wishing you all happy holidays and see you in the new year!
This year certainly has taken its toll on many of us, often taking some to the point of exhaustion. In this episode, Rachel and Shann share their own experience, sometimes dealing with debilitating burnouts, what has helped them and what to do when the signs are showing.
This week, Rachel and Shann reflect on what has defined the better leaders in their careers, as well as the good, the bad and the not so pretty of their own trajectories as team leaders.
This week we are joined by the awesome Lara O'Reilley, Media and Advertising Editor at Business Insider, and started the discussion with a very loaded question: considering how much the trade press is a representation of our industry, is it acting more as a source of truth that calls out the bullshit, or a source of hype that perpetuates it? A chance to also discuss how to get yourself spotted by editors, and whether there is a space for more opinionated coverage of our industry!
Facing the reality of one's own mediocrity can sometimes be daunting, if not crippling. But caught between honesty and imposter syndrome, dealing with it head on can be a useful way to mature in your career. Sometimes it can mean working it out and getting ready to learn again, others it may simply mean realising imperfection is not a fatal flaw - just a normal one.
It's a recurring theme that if we were really good at what we do, we probably wouldn't be working in advertising - let alone in an ad agency. And so it's not unusual to hear the refrain that the best creatives tend to pursue a career in the arts, whereas less talented ones would go into advertising. So what two strategists have to say about it? Is it fair to the talent of ad creatives? Or is it just another example of our industry's inferiority complex?
Advocates of brand purpose often treat as a given that brands should take a stance on cultural crises and the debates that stem from them. Sometimes brands are even blamed for not taking a more active voice. But is it really their place, and will brands really make that much of a difference? This week, Rachel and Shann discuss why it's important for marketers to keep track of what's happening in society, but might always be obligatory to be "part of the conversation".
While this topic exudes scents of false dichotomy, it is also the opportunity to reflect on the balance between ambitions that might sometimes be in conflicts. Ultimately, marketers are both in the business of delivering the right message and delivering the right now. So sure, a combination of the two is best, but if you were to choose, which would you pick?
There is no denying the essential role of creativity in marketing. But there has been a lot of talk about the struggling health of creative shops over the last decade. Industry veterans like Martin Sorrell seem pretty convinced the future doesn't even require much of what used to define them in the past. Meanwhile, media agencies have been playing a bigger role in driving communications plans, often at a good intersection of data, media partnerships and production. But is there really a dynamic benefiting media over creative? And would that even be beneficial to our industry?
There has been a lot of discussion about long term brand build and short term activation in the last few years. We've engineered our thinking around this opposition where one does a specific job the other doesn't deliver, or at least not as well. This week, we explore if performance marketing (search, e-commerce, programmatic etc.) can be a good vehicle to build a brand, and if yes how?
We're seeing a lot of products popping up with pretty polished brand identities and that try to fast track the value of their branding. This week, we are joined by Ana Andjelic, strategy executive and author of “The Business of Aspiration”, to discuss (and sometimes even debate a little!) what makes a brand a strong asset to a business.
Many big names in our industry are professing the death of brands. Their value is, in their opinion, waning with the crash of mass broadcast, hurt by the easy access to reviews, and a general direction towards the product more than the brand. This week, Rachel and Shann discuss why brands are more likely here to stay.
The recruitment and promotion process in advertising tends to reward outlandish claims. Sometimes, fitting in the narrative of the moment can help fast forward one's ambitions. But is that really a requirement? Is there a role for honesty and provocations that go against the accepted norms?
Agencies like to remind the world they're a talent business. But as competition for talents gets fierce, are they really set up to win the best? Rachel and Shann share their unfiltered views on what's happening to our business, and whether agencies can still retain, or even attract, talents.
Being able to provide direction is an essential skill for strategists. But it's at least as important to know when and how to let go - whether it's for other functions to take over, or while supervising someone else's work. In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss how they develop a more hands off approach to their work sometimes, even when it feels hard to let go.
This has been a difficult year for junior recruitment in agencies, and we know some will struggle to get their foot through the door. Regardless, if strategic planning is something you'd like to start your career with, there are many questions worth asking yourself, from whether it's right to start there to whether you're working in the right environment for you to enjoy it. In this episode, Rachel and Shann share their personal journeys, which neither actually started in strategy!
Today we are joined with the phenomenal Bennett D. Bennett, writer/strategist/principal at Aerialist and co-igniter of 600 And Rising. In this episode, we discuss the importance of having a sustainable media diet for brands, one that rewards those who bring depth and not just click hacks, a particularly important discussion at a time where context makes a big comeback on the media scene.
Creative testing has long been a thing a lot of ad folks love to hate. The practice has certainly made massive contributions to the industry, but as always, when a method becomes a dogma, it's bound to become a problem. This week, Rachel and Shann discuss not if but how creative testing get in the way of great ideas, all the while being a valuable and important part of our process?
Somehow, strategy has become a very fragmented practice, with digital strategists, brand planners, comms planners, social strategists etc. This week, we take a question we've seen on Fishbowl (yes...), and discussed whether it was a possible (maybe even natural) fit for a digital strategist to become a "strat planner".
Although we take it for granted, the separation of media and creativity is actually still a somewhat recent structure in the history of advertising. As we see the lines between the two getting very blurry again, is there value in reuniting the two? And should strategy in particular be more integrated?
We're delighted to welcome Alexandra Jamieson and Bob Gower to discuss a massive challenge most of us have to deal with on a daily basis. Alex and Bob bring their years of expertise in organizational design and executive coaching to explain some of the discoveries they've made to get the most out of organization. In this episode, we talk a lot about creating safe spaces, taking the time to understand each other's personal context and aspirations, and some of the toxic behaviors we have ourselves been guilty of in our careers. To know more about their approach, you can pre-order their book "Radical Alignment: How to Have Game-Changing Conversations That Will Transform Your Business and Your Life" coming August 11 on https://radicalalignmentbook.com.
Faris Yakob likes to remind us that the pursuit of strategy is to turn uncertainty into risk. In our efforts to manage risks, we can oftentimes get caught up in an endeavour to find the optimal solution and direction, as if there was one right way competing with a lot of sub-optimal - or even wrong - directions. The question often isn't wether it's achievable but whether this ambition can have perverse side effects.
Bonus episode this week, recorded a few months ago when Tom and Mark joined us around our little microphone. The occasion to talk about what happens when you feel like you're reached your peak in ad land, something many of us have to think about. For many, peaking is impossible, while for others it can be a blessing allowing them to pivot to other things.
Working in the service industry means you don't always get to choose who you work for - or at least who your business works for. Equally, we may feel unable to express things publicly in fear of response, or simple respect for the colleagues we work with. Sometimes, it can be a dilemma, one that has no doubt been felt even more strongly in the last few weeks for some. Are there ways to navigate this better? Does your outlook change with experience? And when it really is difficult, is it better to keep fighting another day or to move on with thunderous statements?
Oh boy, do strategists love their frameworks. We love using them, writing them, sharing them and even evangelising them. But do we really need them to write good strategy? What value do they bring to a team, and to an organisation? What makes a framework a good framework? And what happens when we don't use them?
Workoholism is often seen as something worth celebrating. "She worked the three weekends in a row on this, it shows her commitment!" It is particularly true in the United States, where the idea of "hustling" is often associated with merit. In this episode, Rachel and Shann share their own journeys, how they have identified it in their careers, and some suggestions for talent, leaders and clients to make sure they inspire a culture of effectiveness that doesn't come at the price of people's balance.
We welcome the awesome Thas Naseemuddeen, CEO at Omelet in Los Angeles, to discuss her progression from Chief Strategist to Chief Executive. What is it like to switch responsibilities? Is it more stressful, and why? What does she love about it? How does she leave space for the strategy leads to define the strategic vision? Tune it to listen to one of the most inspiring strategists in the ad industry!
Disclaimer: this episode was recorded prior to recent events and while it doesn't address some of themes that have grabbed recent headlines, Thas is a perfect reminder that we are a more vibrant and exciting industry when we embrace and promote the diversity of our talents.
Today we take a bit more time than usual to reflect on some of the things we have seen, heard and sometimes learned over the last 2 weeks.
We are joined by Cole Habersham, account manager at Droga 5 and contributing writer for ADCOLOR, to discuss the tragic events and escalation of the last few days in America. As we all face the reality that the message Black Lives Matter is as important as ever, we explain what's happening, how it may impact some of our friends and colleagues, but also the reality that we all have a role to play to make things better - as friends, colleagues, corporations and brands.
This week we are joined by special guest Zoe Scaman, a brilliant London based strategist trained in ad agencies and who is now working for Oscar winning filmmaker Ridley Scott's Creative Group. The occasion to find out more about what it's like working in the star studded entertainment industry, what skills she was able to transfer there, but also what she thinks the ad industry could learn from the entertainment world - among many other questions!
Because strategist don't really produce anything that is tangibly seen by the consumers, it is sometimes heard that there is a tendency for strategists do work in their own bubble. This can of course be a problem both in terms of collaboration with other teams, but also because strategists are tasked with helping understand the reality of consumers and the world they live in. Is the issue really that common, are there sometimes good reasons behind it, and how can strategists get down from their ivory tower if they ever get stuck up there?
A lot of people have a bit more free time, or at least the chance to think about other things to do on the side. This week, we discuss why we think the fact the internet is already filled with opinions doesn't mean you shouldn't be more vocal about yours - especially if you're a strategist! And we take this as a chance to share a little bit more about our story and how we decided to record this podcast in the first place.
This week we bring special guest and digital transformation expert Ana Milicevic to discuss whether ad agencies may or may not be the place to look for digital transformation services. During this extended episode, we also touched on what kind of businesses were harder to transform, if we could see some big differences in capabilities across regions, and even whether it was still right to talk about digital transformation in a business world where everything already has a digital flavour?
Rob Campbell recently made the provocation that he "would rather understand the culture of a category than know the behaviours of the category". This week, Rachel and Shann discussed how much they agreed (or disagreed) with that statement. Is there really such a hierarchy in the kind of insight we use? Are creative and media planners impacted the same? And is the role of planning meant to be so centred on culture?
A few weeks into the crisis, brands have started responding en force. While marketers are all walking a fine line, are they going too far, or landing on the so obvious they become trite and undifferentiated? And are they cutting budgets with a machete when they should be cutting with a scalpel?
There's hardly anything more satisfying than bitching about awards - and Cannes in particular. But as Cannes is being cancelled and the industry is now being given what so many wished for, are there reasons to lament the absence of our top award show for the year?
This week we step a little bit outside of the COVID19 grind, with Rachel and Shann discussing how a strategy team can improve its relationship with other specialists, from account to creative. They talk about the importance of empathy to understand others' perspective, the fine line between providing direction and directing others, and some advice on how to handle issues when things get personal.
This week we are joined by special guest Rosie Yakob, co-founder of Genius Steals, to talk about the likely impact of the COVID crisis on our industry and our jobs. A chance to think of the coming months and beyond, from new ways of working to the stressful reckoning of a slowdown, and even some hopes for a bright future.
A week into confinement in New York, Rachel and Shann discuss how their job as advertising strategists has been impacted so far, between client questions, big brand problems to answer and personal realities of working from home.
This was also the first recording from a distance, so please excuse us for some of the sound mishaps, and the slight delay in getting this episode live. Take care and stay safe!
Most of us walk into advertising careers with very little training in soft skills. Considering how important these can be in corporate environment, what should we be taught early on, but aren't?
This week we take a listener question from Ashwin, who as a creative asked us if it was possible to switch careers to strategy. In this episode we discuss our own journeys (Rachel coming from creative, Shann from account), the requirements to make the switch, but also the limits one has to consider. And if you are able to combine skills, it may be a good idea to make that your superpower?
This week we have a special (and longer) episode with two of our favorite people, Mark Pollard and Tom Goodwin, discussing our respective experiences as introverts in an industry where collaboration is essential.
This week we discussed what in our eyes defines good talents, often looking for traits that make them interesting both as a strategist but also as a person. But the onus is also on us to not only find them, but more importantly attract them. With the explosion of professional social networks it's become increasingly easy to spot some of the more visible ones, but what can we do ourselves to burst our bubble and go find the amazing talents that might not always the most visible to us?
Personalisation has become the name of the game in most marketing boardrooms, often discussed as the inevitable future paradigm of our industry. But as with every shiny new toys, it's never a bad idea to ask ourselves how far can we go, but also how far should we go?
Today we're joined by the awesome Mark Pollard, guru of Sweathead and inspiration to many strategists in our industry, to discuss the age old question whether strategists should come up with creative ideas themselves. In it, we explore what is an idea, why strategy is inherently creative, but also the boundaries we should keep in mind when engaging with creatives and their responsibility to carry the project through the finish line.
Agencies are often said to have lost some of their edge, stuck between forever pitches and increasingly powerful media partners. In their effort to avoid hurting anybody, it can sometimes be difficult for them to express sharp opinions publicly, and by extension difficult for their employees - especially the contrarian ones. Is it possible for them to retain that edge and can we, as employees, play a role in retaining it?
Plenty of successful advertising professionals do not have academic marketing training. But while studying it is clearly not compulsory in order do well, are there good reasons to get a college degree for it? Rachel and Shann discuss their own experience and whether it's right to consider academic studies as dispensable.
The lack of fulfilment at work is one of the most common complaints we hear from strategists. Reflecting on our own experience as well as many of the stories (and recommendations) we have heard over the years, we ask ourselves what steps one can take when fulfilment becomes a source of intense dissatisfaction. And yes, whether it can really be achieved...
As the new year begins, many of you will be thinking about life changes, so we're starting with a light topic for those of you that are thinking of moving to (or away from!) New York. Armed with experiences spanning across multiple countries and states, Rachel and Shann give you their honest opinion on whether the city that never sleeps is a good place to be as a marketing strategist. It's also a good opportunity to discuss the differences in strategic practice across different countries. Happy New Year!
With Nike recently pulling out, some brands are asking themselves (again) whether Amazon is the right place for them. Despite the e-commerce giant's prowess, the reality is that it's not always easy to deliver the desired experience, and Amazon themselves tend to compete directly with the very brands they want to attract. So, friend or foe?
A lot of advertisers are being celebrated for their unorthodox stunts, whether Burger King going after McDonald's, or very recently Aviation Gin laughing in Peloton's face. Is this something we should celebrate, or are we just judging within our own ad bubble?
Some planners like to trust their instinct and look for validations, others tend to trust the data first and then look for strategies to build on it. And since it's not really a dichotomy, many do a bit of both depending on the situation. This week, we explore the value in each approach and whether there might be different leanings towards validation or inspiration depending on different types of planners.
t's notorious there aren't a lot of people over the age of 45 in advertising agencies outside of management. Why is this the case? Is it really an inevitable ageist truth? Aren't we missing out as an industry? Rachel and Shann discuss their experience and point of view, well aware that their own clock might be ticking.
This week we're discussing a listener question, and explore what's next in your career as a strategist if your goal isn't necessarily to become head of department, and what other professional lives there could be for you out there.
This week Rachel and Shann discuss one of the most heated (but also hated) topics in marketing circles: the need (or lack thereof) for a brand to serve a higher purpose. And while the answer might not be as black and white as some would hope, this episode explores the potential, but also the limits, of what many marketers have taken for a new paradigm.
This week we discuss what it takes to grow into your career as a strategist, a question asked by one of our listeners, Meghan Sheperd. We cover the different stages of your career, the importance of thinking horizontally, and share some of our experiences growing up as strategists ourselves.
Rachel and Shann discuss the preparedness (or lack thereof) of the advertising industry to deal with mental health issues at work. And since this is close to their hearts, they share a little bit about their personal journey, both as sufferers and team leaders.
In this episode, Shann and Rachel explore the question: does great planning need a consumer insight? The nuance, of course, is specifically when and were "insight" is applied.
In this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss the personal challenges and ethical decisions they and others have confronted when working in advertising.
What happens when the world of a brand gets fragmented into multiple massive markets? Local planning takes the front seat! In this episode Rachel and Shann tell you why they think local is where the magic is increasingly happening, and how the role of global and regional brand planners is shifting.
Rachel and Shann discuss why they wanted to get into advertising, whether it's still an interesting career path, and debating the value of agencies for career growth.
In this first episode, Rachel and Shann discuss the client relationship, whether the client is always right, and how to handle it when they're not.