Best Hire Ever: Recent Episodes
Kris Dunn
BEST HIRE EVER is a podcast that explores a simple truth - there’s nothing that drives success at your company like making a great hire. Make your BEST HIRE EVER, and suddenly you sleep better, work less nights and weekends, and you might even start being talked about as that guy or gal that’s just naturally a great developer of talent. Of course, making great hires is incredibly hard, which is why this podcast exists.
Join TA Leader Kris Dunn as he digs into the topic of hiring top talent with undeniably talented corporate leaders, recruiters and candidates. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, and you’ll learn the hard lessons others learned as they developed their approach to make their BEST HIRE EVER.
In Episode 60 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Jessica Lee, SVP of Global Talent Development at Marriott International, as they break down an episode of one of their favorite streaming shows (The Bear), with the episode in question focused 100% on JOB SEARCH.
Jessica and KD talk about the arc of the series and their reflections on how hard job search can be for candidates (especially after a long period of stability), how the episode made them feel, and what meaningful work actually means in life. They close strong with observations on how it can all be made better with just a little bit of compassion as we interact and try and help candidates in the process. Episode link below!
Episode linked here
-----------Jessica Lee
Jessica Lee
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 58 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tyler Weeks, VP of Talent Analytics at Marriott International, and they conduct a TA/Recruiting analytics draft, pro sports style, including the following:
- Tyler's dream of measuring employer brand equity
- KD's goal of extending TA Analytics to the selection skills of the hiring manager
- Tyler's audacious claim that better responsiveness is needed to land great candidates
- A cool discussion on sources and why your best sources from a raw numbers perspective may mean nothing
- A shared taste for funnel metrics mixed with hiring manager psychology
Come for the recruiting data talk, stay for the Tyler's recommendations of whether a Chris Farley/Tommy Boy print is appropriate for KD's workspace.
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---------Tyler Weeks
Tyler Weeks on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 57 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Shaunda Zilich, People Brand Leader at Marriott International, on the best way to build a modern employment brand at your company. Among the topics discussed:
--Why she calls it People Brand, not Employment Brand
--The 3 big components to building a modern employment brand, regardless of the size of your company
--The best way to maximize use of your employment brand in the field (toolkits and what should be included in those)
--If you're just gettting started out and don't have a stand alone department for people brand, what type of skills you should be looking for in your normal TA or HR hires to help get your people brand off the ground.
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---------Shaunda Zilich
Shaunda Zilich on LinkedIn
Marriott International Careers
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 56 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Mike Fitzsimmons (CEO and founder of Crosschq) about all things related to QUALITY OF HIRE. The conversation centers around the link/correlation of some common hiring elements we naturally think are linked to great quality of hire – referrals, interviews, assessments and more.
Turns out, things aren't what we think they are.
Mike breaks down with the Crosschq research says about each of these big areas (spoiler alert – the link of each to quality of hire isn’t what we think it is) and then lays out the reality – that every organization is unique and must chart their own path related to components of quality of hire that matter most to their workforce and industry.
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---------Mike Fitzsimmons
Mike Fitzsimmons on LinkedIn
Crosschq
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 55 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tim Sackett (TA industry analyst, HRU Tech, The Tim Sackett Project) about his new book, "The Talent Fix, Volume 2" (click link to view and order), Musings between KD and the artist known as Sackadaumus including the following:
--2:15 - Did the world need The Talent Fix, Volume 2? As sequels go, is this The Empire Strikes Back or Weekend At Bernie's 2?
--3:55 - KD hates Zombie Movies. Enough to make sure the lights are on during World War Z. --9:34 - Tim Sacket give you his elevator pitch for why you should by "The Talent Fix, Volume 2", available for pre-order now, shipping 4/19. --12:11 - Why aren't there more books on recruiting out there? --14:20 - What are the 2 biggest Recruiting truths that carry over into Tim's second book? --17:22 - Why Tim added riskier topics to Volume 2 --25:50 - Why aren't more leadership teams globally supportive of great TA/Recruiting? --27:50 - When leaders want to fix TA, what do they wish they had more of? --32:45 - The time when people came after Tim about his description of the mediocre/lazy recruiter. Please subscribe, rate and review (Apple) and follow (Spotify) to get the latest delivered to you. Click here if you don't see the player on this page.
---------Tim Sackett
Tim Sackett on LinkedIn
HRU Tech
The Tim Sackett Project
Preorder "The Talent Fix, Volume 2"
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 54 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks to Pillar CEO Mark Simpson on all things AI in the space of Talent Acquisition, including the following nuggets:
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How COVID created critical mass related to remote interviewing that gave rise to a company like Pillar.hr.
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Why the first job of any recruiting AI should be to give time back to the recruiter or hiring manager via automated interview summaries, making collection of interview feedback easier, etc.
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Why the right AI can help a hiring manager understand when they are talking too much among other awareness items (can you guess what the target benchmark is for a hiring manager vs a candidate talking in an interview?) - a great piece of feedback almost no hiring manager gets today.
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How AI can measure candidate sentiment in an interview (do they hate you? i kid... sort of), leading to helping the hiring manager get better at interviewing.
These are just a few of the things Mark and KD talked about. Take a listen and check out Pillar.ai when you get a chance. This is a tech company creating AI tools that really matter to TA and recruiting departments looking to get better.
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------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
-----------Mark Simpson
Mark Simpson on LinkedIn
Pillar.hr Website
In Episode 53 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn goes solo for 12 minutes of goodness and talks about Three Positive Vibes Hiring Managers Can Give Candidates (to get better info) including the following:
- Off the top, compliment something in their background 2. Be demonstrative in saying you really like something they said or described 3. Use the “you’re good at this” intro to a behavioral interview question to loosen up follow up responses Make the candidate feel great and you get better info!!
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------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 52 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tyler Weeks, VP of Talent Analytics at Marriott International, about all things related to the the state of Talent Anlytics in the corporate world (and his life in the world of data), including the following:
- What it is like being a talent analytics leader at a F200 company
- The best thing about Tyler's job
- The most challenging thing about Tyler's job
- Where does TA usually fall short related to how they view TA Analytics
- What are the biggest areas of opportunity in TA related to the coming wave of AI
Come for the data talk, stay for the KD's review of Tyler's workspace, which includes fine art and pull up bars - both aspirational signs of greatness. :)
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---------Andrew Flowers
Tyler Weeks on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 51 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Andrew Flowers, Labor Economist for job programmatic provider Appcast, about all things related to the 2024 job market, including the following:
--Current probablity of a 2024 Recession as seen through labor stats,
--The interaction between unemployment, labor market participation, and quick quits,
--Did we have a recession in the techonology space in 2023, and
--Trends in job posting volume (it's down) and what it means for 2024.
This conversation includes the story of how Andrew's time at the the Federal Reserve made him into one of the world's most approachable economists. Pure gold.
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---------Andrew Flowers
Andrew Flowers on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 50 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Sarah D'Angelo, Director of University Recruiting at Marriott International, in a wide ranging discussion about the state of campus recruiting, including the following:
--How campus recruiting is recovering from the COVID era,
--What students are looking for in employers in 2024 (spolier alert - it's changed!), and
--How smart university recruiting teams can listen, engage, and get the best talent that fits their needs.
Sarah breaks down the rebuild from the lost year of 2020 in campus recruiting, and along the way shares her strategy to ensure she serves students as a leader representing Marriott International. A great conversation, be sure to check it out!
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---------Sarah D'Angelo
Sarah D'Angelo on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 49 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tim Sackett (TA industry analyst, HRU Tech, The Tim Sackett Project) on the Three Big TA Tech Trends for 2024. Tim shares what he learned in 2023 HR Tech conference season and outlines the biggest trends for 2024, including the following:
--AI and LLMs as they apply to Talent Acquisition
--The Skills Revolution
--CRM
Tim and KD break each area down and talk about what they love about each trend, the challenges they see.
Come for the broad trends, stay for jaded discussion of whether each trend is more vapor than real for 2024.
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---------Tim Sackett
Tim Sackett on LinkedIn
HRU Tech
The Tim Sackett Project
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
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In Episode 48 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tim Sackett (TA industry analyst, HRU Tech, The Tim Sackett Project) on the 5 Biggest TA/Recruiting Questions to Answer in a Post-Pandemic World. We're well over a year since recruiting ramped back up in April 2021, and it looks like this is the new normal and the old environment is not coming back.
That means we've got some things to figure out. KD and Tim each bring their 5 biggest things and react in real time since they didn't share with each other beforehand. Among the topics covered:
--Does your tech stack need to change?
--What’s a good recruiter in a post-pandemic world?
--Is the candidate expectation of immediate response fair?
--How can we limit quick quits by being better recruiters?
--Are we ready to use AI in selection?
--How do we get more candidates to recruit?
--Will Indeed ever be replaced in the top of the funnel market?
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---------Tim Sackett
Tim Sackett on LinkedIn
HRU Tech
Fistful of Talent
The Tim Sackett Project
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 47 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Phil North (VP of Customer Experience at Kinetix) on the challenges of disagreeing and resolving subsequent conflict (or perceived conflict) on REMOTE TEAMS, where visual cues and informal, in-person connection is rare. From a new hire perspective, this is a big topic to properly onboard and not lose a new hire to the "quick quit" trend that's happening more often in a tight labor market.
In their conversation, Phil and KD hit the following:
- The tools available to remote teams to resolve conflict – text, voice calls, more Zoom or MS Teams calls.
- How quickly to go back/reach out once you battled with someone.
- The potential for setting rules for how tension reduction can happen on remote teams.
- Does the teammate feel the same way? How do you know?
- The danger of letting it roll for days without attempting to resolve it/.
- Phil's love for Mini-Coopers and ability to spin life situations from a Mini-Cooper lens.
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---------Phil North
Phil North on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 46 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Eric Torigian (CHRO at SitusAMC) on building sustainable organizations as a company grows from 1,000 to 8,000 employees in a a matter of months, not years. Along the way, they talk about the need to flush out "pocket vetos" (change blockers) and to be "brief, brilliant and gone" as an advisor to the business.
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---------Eric Torigian
Eric Torigian on LinkedIn
SitusAMC
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 45 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tim Sackett (HRU Tech, Fistful of Talent, The Tim Sackett Project), as Tim shares some of his experiences with alternative paths into a career in recruiting, including a former Pastor who turned out to be a great recruiter.
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---------Tim Sackett
Tim Sackett on LinkedIn
HRU Tech
Fistful of Talent
The Tim Sackett Project
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 44 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Kamal Janardhan, (General Manager, Microsoft Viva Insights, Microsoft 365) about the MyAnalytics platform that's routinely sending individual reports on wellness, productivity, collaboration and more to your employees. Kris and Kamal discuss the intent of these analytic reports, as well as what the future could hold for increasing productivity, innovation and wellness in your organization through this platform.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:20 - Kris describes to Kamal how he got introduced to the Wellness report of MyAnalytics.
5:55 - Kamal talks about what's most interesting to her in the aggregate about how the USA works based on the trove of Microsoft data.
8:15 - Kris asks Kamal what tools are available – both now and in the future – for managers of teams to be progressive coaches based on how their teams are working.
9:15 - Kamal talks about the differences she is seeing across industry and geographies in the US related to how we work.
22:00 - Kamal talks about what she's most excited about related to the future of workplace analytics. What’s the future hold? What other data analysis can we expect?
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
---------Kamal Janardhan
Kamal Janardhan on Linkedin
Microsoft Viva
In Episode 43 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn does Office Hours and answers a listener mail question that's causing pain everywhere in the world of recruiting: "How Do I Get My Recruiters to Consistently Use Our ATS?"
Along the way, KD hits on the following considerations when trying to improve how recruiters use your ATS:
4:50 - Making tough decisions about what you actually want your recruiters to record in the ATS.
8:00 - Becoming more like a Sales team and ensuring you can report on your recruiting funnel for each req your team works.
11:50 - How consistent reporting is key to recruiter adoption of your ATS.
17:30 - Why spending time and resources ($) on how sourced candidates from other databases get into the ATS is a gift you have to give your recruiters to get them to use your system.
19:08 - Audits, performance management tie-ins and more to measure ATS adoption across your recruiters.
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------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 42 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn does Office Hours and answers a listener mail question that's causing pain everywhere in the world of recruiting: "How Do I Get Candidates To Stop Ghosting My Recruiters?"
Dawn Burke, VP of Talent Consulting at Kinetix sits in for reflection on KD's advice. Problems are solved. We laugh, we cry. We learn. OK, it's not that serious, but we discuss. In and out in 15 minutes. KD believes that you shouldn't try to stop ghosting, the key is TO MAKE CANDIDATES WHO ARE GOING GHOST YOU DO IT FASTER AND EARLIER IN THE PROCESS.
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------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
------------Dawn Burke
Dawn Burke on LinkedIn
In Episode 41 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn does Office Hours and answers a listener mail question that's as old as recruiting itself: "How Do I Get a Hiring Leader Who Doesn't Understand Recruiting Off My Back?"
Dawn Burke, VP of Talent Consulting at Kinetix sits in for reflection on KD's advice. Problems are solved. We laugh, we cry. We learn. OK, it's not that serious, but we discuss. In and out in 15 minutes.
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------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
------------Dawn Burke
Dawn Burke on LinkedIn
In Episode 40 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tim Sackett (HRU Tech, Fistful of Talent, The Tim Sackett Project) on best practices when hiring recruiters at your company. Tim and Kris talk through the following topics of note when it comes to "recruiting recruiters":
- The whole remote/hybrid/in office question when it comes to hiring recruiters.
- Why your approach to the career level of the recruiter profile you seek and training provided probably dictates what you can do in office vs. remote-based recruiters.
- What’s the market like right now for hiring a recruiiter? (it might be better than many report)
- Candidate Slotting (what type of recruiter works for you) and Pay Models for Recruiters.
- Referral Programs – Do they really work when you’re trying to recruit recruiters?
- The value of Assessments and what we like/need in recruiter candidates
- Funnel stats from KD's recent search.
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------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
---------Tim Sackett
Tim Sackett on LinkedIn
HRU Tech
Fistful of Talent
The Tim Sackett Project
In Episode 39 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Cameron Corder, CEO of the Cleveland County YMCA (NC) on the art of recruiting great talent for a mission-based organization. Cam and Kris discuss recruiting strategies for non-profits in competing with the rest of the world for talent, and what the for-profit world can learn from his 25 years of attracting great people to the YMCA mission.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:30 - Cam walks through his background at the YMCA and mission of the Y that most people aren’t aware enough of.
6:00 - In his 25 years at the YMCA, what has Cam learned about recruiting for a mission-based non-profit like the YMCA?
10:50 - What’s Cam's sweet spot in messaging on the opportunity to come to a non-profit and serve a mission? How does he translate that messaging into getting hires that you might not otherwise get? It turns out that the biggest draw is the track record of people development who went on to the next thing from his Y organization.
16:10 - Is the mission-based message a big part of retention? Does it become part of why people stay? Cam talks about the network of the Y and the diversity inside the Y being representative of the community it serves.
20:35 - What can the corporate world learn from the Y related to having a cause/mission as part of their identity and using that to recruit more effectively? Cam and KD talk about the need for companies without an obvious mission to create service missions for the communities they serve.
24:55 - Cam talks about how he's used the tag "BHE" as a broad recognition that someone's a great hire rather than say Best Hire Ever - which feels limited to one person. BHE as a recognition program!
---------Cameron Corder
Cameron Corder on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 38 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tim Sackett (HRU Tech, Fistful of Talent, The Tim Sackett Project) on the concept and value of attempting to create scarcity around your open jobs and working for your company. KD and Tim explore the best way to create this vibe of scarcity when you're not Google, Apple or any other premiere brand and you have 100s of open jobs.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:33 - KD and Tim intro the concept of scarcity based on a Fistful of Talent Tim did. What is scarcity in your open jobs and how can you create that feeling when candidates look at your open jobs? How do we make them want to work with us more?
5:30 - KD and Tim talk about the impact of the online world to application volume - candidates have the ability to apply for anything anywhere, but what if they didn't? What if the only way you could get a job was via referral from a current employee?
7:45 - Tim starts breaking down some of this ideas - idea number one, wait for it... Pay way about the market to stand out. KD and Tim talk about what the right % over the market rate is to create a form of demand and scarcity.
12:05 - Idea #2 in creating demand/scarcity is to offer something as a company no one else will match. Tim goes big and says "we're going to pay for college for your kids".
15:50 - Tim talks about investing in relocating talent to the extent they're locked in for the long term with a company.
17:40 - Tim and KD talk about the messaging we send as companies related to what it really takes to be successful at a company - and how that creates scarcity because some people opt out, but the messaging/reality makes some people want it more.
20:45- KD notes that total transparency related to who you would work for (your new manager) and what makes them tick as a manager as a great marketing tool.
---------Tim Sackett
Tim Sackett on LinkedIn
HRU Tech
Fistful of Talent
The Tim Sackett Project
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 37 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Mike Miller, Director of Talent Acquisition at Chipotle, about all things recruiting at one of the most interesting brands in America, with specific focus on recruiting for a purpose-driven company.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:25 - Mike talks about his interesting path with energetic brands before landing at Chipotle.
4:20 – Make sure you are aligning yourself with brands that are additive to what you want to do.
Five quick hitters with Mike:
7:30 - Go-to order at Chipotle for Mike.
9:47 - Must have TA Tech that Mike would fight not to lose.
11:48 - Hidden gem (can be anything) that folks coming to Nashville have to see that most tourists won’t find.
13:27 - Thing Mike misses most about LA.
15:44 - 3 words that describe Mike’s recruiting life at Chipotle!
And some bigger themes with Mike:
16:57 - Mike describes how he determines whether a candidate for his team will fight/advocate for what they believe.
19:55 – Mike describes his philosophy on follow-up questions in interviewing to get to real value and insight into the candidate.
21:40 - KD asks Mike about the concept of a Purpose-driven life at Chipotle. How does that help Chipotle get more than their share of great talent at Chipotle?
25:28 - KD and Mike talk about the meaning of “safe” and how that comes with accountability on the employee side as well!
32:15 - How has the TA strategy changed as a result of the pandemic? What changes will stick once we get to the new normal, and what will go away?
39:10 – Mike and KD discuss the Chipotle Debt Free Degrees program. Mike shares the incredible traction you’re getting with the program.
44:12– KD asks Mike for his favorite interview question when you’re interviewing someone for your team.
---------Mike Miller
Mike Miller on LinkedIn
Chipotle Careers
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 36 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Shuba Gopal about what's going on in the world of people analytics. Transitioning 5 years ago from the world of cancer research, Shuba shares what people analytics should look like for any CHRO or Talent Acquisition leader and also breaks down the current state of DEI and Gender Pay Equity analytics as well.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:45 - Shuba didn't start on the people analytics side of the business, so KD asks her to break down her days in Cancer research and why she was interested in People Analytics.
6:30 - KD asks Shuba to describe how HR has better data than in Cancer research. Crazy but true - People Data is better than cancer research data!
10:40 - Shuba gives her advice to HR leaders on the best way to get started with people analytics - providing the top 3 areas she would focus a new HR leader to dig into.
19:45 - KD asks Shuba to provide a similar top 3 list for analytical focus on the recruiting side of the house. What are the top 3 areas she would focus a TA/recruiting leader on to turn around a struggling recruiting function?
28:03 - KD and Shuba talk about how data can be used to convert more leaders to understand the importance of DEI. What’s a way data can be used to convert people to the mission of recruiting all types of people in the average American company?
32:58 - Shuba talks about her work in the area of gender Pay equity, and give observations on some things she's learned about pay equity that are broadly true across the US. KD and Shuba also talk about the at times controversial adjustment of salaries for experience and time in the workforce prior to discussing gaps.
---------Shuba Gopal
Shuba Gopal on LinkedIn
Shuba at the Wharton People Analytics Conference
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 35 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Chris Stanzione, longtime TA leader across multiple industries about the challenges and best practices of hiring knowledge workers in consulting, tech and more. Chris talks about what elevated TA/Recruiting looks like in the consulting/tech space as well as where to look for great project ROI as a TA/Recruiting leader. The answers Chris gives for "If TA/Recruiting were a movie, which one would it be" as well as "most important tool in TA" is worth the listen alone!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
4:25 - Why did Chris get into TA? What’s made him stay?
6:55 - What does elevated TA look like to Chris in the intellectual capital/consultant/tech recruiting world?
9:30 - What does Chris believe the most important change/project a TA leader should look to make/do to get great ROI in support of a intellectual capital/consultant/tech recruiting business?
13:00 - KD asks Chris the tough questions - If TA were a movie which would it be?
16:45 - Chris talks about how the last year impacted the talent supply in the intellectual capital/consultant/tech recruiting segment?
27:30 - TA Tech – what’s the one tool you can’t live without as a TA leader? Chris goes off the grid and focuses on "sense of humor" as the best tool!
30:00 - KD flips the question and asks Chris for the most important tool a recruiter in the intellectual capital/consultant/tech recruiting space can have. Chris points out curiosity as the key!
---------Chris Stanzione
Chris Stanzione on LinkedIn
360 Agile Talent
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 34 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with John Nykolaiszyn · Director, Business Career Services at FIU Business, on the current state and art of campus recruiting. John and Kris discuss a wide range of topics, including choices employers have to make when creating campus recruiting programs, what college students are looking for in 2021 and more. A great show with an expert in his field!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
4:30 - John breaks down his background, which includes great experience in corporate and agency recruiting before him landing in Career Services at FIU - a background that uniquely prepared him for his role at FIU.
9:37 - John shares with Kris what employers looking to establish a relationship with a career services function at a distinguished school like FIU need to do to get long term results from the relationship.
12:54 - Kris asks John what the biggest mistake employers new to the campus recruiting scene make. What’s a trap that employers with less experience in this world might fall into?
21:31 - Kris asks John if there’s a slotting process that employers need to consider when they think about where they should spend the campus recruiting time they have? Based on their relative position in the marketplace, should they go where they have the best chances for success? Kris asks John to describe what that would look like for him if he was leading the employer-side of this?
29:00 - Kids, man. KD asks John for the biggest change that employers need to know with a new grad hiring in 2021 that is dramatically even from 5 years ago?
39:10 - KD and John talk more about the kids. Where are kids better from a career prep perspective than they were 5 years ago? Are there any areas that have slipped?
45:35 - KD asks John for the % of parents that are helicoptering?
---------John Nykolaiszyn
John Nykolaiszyn on LinkedIn
Florida International University
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 33 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with long time sales leader Karlie Jessop (Big Health, ADP, Xerox) about the art of hiring great sales talent. KD and Karlie talk about her growing up in the classic Xerox sales organization and her style as a sales leader when it comes to hiring.
Karlie also breaks down what she thinks has changed in sales hiring during and post-COVID, hiring virtually rather than bringing candidates in, as well as her favorite interview question when it comes to sales interviews. Great stuff from one of KD's favorite sales leaders!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
3:40 - Kris and Karlie talk about her background, including being a sales pro and sales leader at Xerox, ADP and more. Unbelievable training grounds for sales pro and sales leaders. Karlie talks about how it all came together in her career. 14:05 - Karlie's in a new industry – mental health – and talks about how does building a salesforce for this business differs from what she's done in the past. 20:05 - Karlie talks about her experience building great sales teams as a sales leader – regardless of the industry, what’s the same and what’s changed related to finding, attracting and landing great sales talent? 25:53 - KD asks Karlie how being a woman leader helps her in her role as a sales leader? What barriers does that present?
34:00 - Karlie and KD talk about high-end sales candidates – what’s changed during and coming off COVID related to what they are looking for? If a sales pro is gainfully employed, does she think they’re harder to get to make a move coming off the pandemic? 37:03 - What's Karlie's favorite interview question when interviewing sales candidates? 41:10 How did Karlie change her interviewing style and onboarding focus as a result of this unique pandemic theme?
46:35 - Karlie tells KD about her best hire ever! ---------Karlie Jessop
Karlie Jessop on LinkedIn
Big Health
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 32 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn runs down the recent blowout vote by Amazon employees to say "No" to union representation at the company's Bessemer, AL Distribution Center.
KD talks a bit about the media coverage, POTUS endorsements and more that negatively piled on Amazon, then provides 10 things to know about organizing in general and specific notes of interest on the Amazon vote and how monumental the "No" delivered by employees actually was.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
3:45 - KD starts with some basics of how union organizing works.
5:22 - KD discusses the fact that the union organizing process at the Amazon DC had a lot of friends on the left, including POTUS, most mainstream media, Hollywood and more.
7:58 - KD talks a bit more about the organizing process that a union follows to get to an employee vote to give you more context.
9:50 - KD talks about the fact that most unions want 50-70% of employees to sign authorization cards before presenting to the NLRB because they understand many of the cards will be signed under duress and employee will flip back to the company side.
11:18 - Coverage of the fact that most organizing campaigns never get to a vote is because employees who don’t care for union representation get wind of the secret card signings going on and report it to the company in question.
12:20 - KD covers the voting results. The union got absolutely crushed in this thing.
16:00 - Amazon was helped by expanding the number of voters in the election. This is called defining and expanding the “unit” in any union election.
21:00 - It’s obvious that the employees at the Amazon DC voted in a way that suggests for many, working for Amazon is one of the best jobs they’ve had related to pay, benefits, etc.
23:15 - After this result, the Biden administration and the media will push the narrative that employees were influenced in an unethical way by Amazon and will use that as a narrative to push through new laws and NLRB rules. Don’t believe it, remember “FOE”
25:52 - To really blow your mind, KD covers the act that this election was held 100% by mail-in voting due to COVID and what opportunity that provides for a union attempting to organize. Still, they got 16%, which speaks volumes on the intent and wishes of the Amazon employee base at the Bessemer Distribution Center.
In Episode 31 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks to HR leader Reggie Stover (Cleveland Clinic, GE, Pepsi) and digs in on Reggie's views of building TA/Recruiting, building relationships as an HR leader with leadership team peers and the impact of L&D and being good at Onboarding toward retention. KD calls the upset for Reggie's daughter in the NCAA Women's tourney (look it up!!) and Reggie shares his top two picks for the NBA Championship in 2021.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
Quick Hits with Reggie:
3:15--Reggies's favorite thing about Cleveland – non-sports related.
5:09--What was the dominant force that made Reggie switch from an early sales career into talent/HR? We all fell into it! Reggie shares a mentor that helped him see a potential career in the world of HR.
9:18--KD asks Reggie to share the biggest thing he learned in the Army that he still uses today in his HR career? #listening skills
12:20--KD asks the tough questions! Including asking Reggie to name the last streaming series he and Mrs. Stover agreed to watch together? "The Office" FTW!
13:51--Reggie has three kids who hoop (two in college and one in HS) -- When 2 of 3 or all 3 of his kids are playing basketball at the same time, how does he decide who to watch live? KD called Reggie's daughter getting the upset in the NCAA's! (Wright State over Arkansas!)
And five bigger HR and Recruiting themes:
17:23--KD notes that Reggie has an unbelievable background as a CHRO – and he still believes “Talent Still Wins”. Why is that still a mantra for him?
24:58--Reggie shares what is usually the biggest challenge for him as a CHRO when he's joined a company and has to figure out what’s going on in recruiting/Talent Acquisition?
30:22- KD asks Reggie for the key for a CHRO to become an informal executive coach – not only for the CEO, but for their peers across the leadership team?
37:03--Reggie has worked for some great brands with decent L&D budgets. In his experience, what type of people development spend has the great ROI? Why is that?
42:26--KD asks reggie to describe his view of the most important activity that can occur in the onboarding process? How can you make sure that happens in a sustainable way as a CHRO?
47:27--KD and Reggie can't help themselves and end the pod by talking about their top two favorites to win the championship in the NBA this year!
SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:
---------Reggie Stover
Reggie Stover on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 30 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks to Kinetix CEO Shannon Russo about being a woman founder and the complexities of women rising in the business world. With the backdrop of Women's History Month, Shannon shares her story and compares and contrasts what she experienced coming up as a Wall Street analyst vs what women experience in 2021. Spoiler alert - it's complicated!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
3:00 - Shannon gives the listeners a rundown of her background - more finance than HR or recruiting, but all TA and recruiting since founding Kinetix in 2004.
9:10 - KD asks Shannon how she made it in a male dominated world? Shannon shares she never thought about it that way, and that might be a key. Shannon talks about how she was raised, growing up around brothers (note she has a sister who's a firefighter)
17:28 - KD asks Shannon to describe how it's harder for career-oriented women today than when she was starting out? How’s it easier?
22:03 - Shannon shares her nuggets of wisdom for women who want to become business leaders in today’s world?
29:09 - KD asks Shannon to describe her style related to mentoring women in today’s business world. Shannon thinks it's easier for her as a woman to mentor than it is for men in 2021. Shannon focuses mentees on not being the victim and also the danger of imposter's syndrome sneaking into the heads of women she coaches.
31:49 - KD asks Shannon how men can be better related to being an advocate for women in the workplace. Shannon focuses on men being a coach and staying engaged as an advocate for women in the workplace.
33:44 - Shannon finishes the following sentence: To really arrive in today’s business world, women need to ____________________. 40:06 - Shannon talks about the family DNA - she's a woman founder and her sister was a firefighter. How did that happen? Shannon points to athletics as key. 41.21 - KD asks Shannon for the best piece of work advice she's given her college-age daughter to prepare her for the world of work. SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:
---------Shannon Russo
Shannon Russon on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 29 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks to long time friend Doug Dean, CHRO of Children's of Alabama. Doug and KD have a deep conversation about his views of how recruiting, the workplace and leadership has changed during the pandemic, as well as what the future might hold in each area. Auburn football is also discussed! (of course)
So many great thoughts from Doug in this one. If you're looking for an HR leader that seamlessly navigates being strategic and accessible at the same time, Doug is your match!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
Quick Hitters:
7:30- What's Doug Dean's Favorite HR Tech? Either for himself or for his HR team? Rewards and recognition is on Doug's mind!
9:05 - Over/Under – 5 years for the new Auburn Football Coach? Doug says the glass is half full! (note - both Doug and KD are season ticket holders at Auburn)
12:58 - KD asks Doug for his thoughts on the keys to achieving a high vaccination rate in an employee population?
16:10 - Doug confirms how many times the pandemic rescheduled his daughter’s wedding. Yikes!
19:45 - Weirdest workplace moment during the Pandemic that made Doug understand the gravity of the situation during COVID.
Deeper Dives:
22:40 - KD asks Doug for his view of candidate movement post-recession vs post-COVID – how will a candidate's willingness to change employers be the same, how will it be different? Doug and KD discuss the tradeoffs of lower turnover AND lower movement overall across the best candidates.
29:09 - Doug and KD discuss what’s changed about recruiting during COVID. Are candidates looking for something different once they hear, “All Clear?” Purpose of work is discussed.
32:58 - KD asks Doug for deep thoughts… What has changed forever inside our workplaces as a result of COVID? Doug discusses his view of tradeoffs of doing virtual work with his leadership team - what works and what doesn't.
37:14 - Doug and KD flip that question and discuss what we are collectively over-interpreting related to the impacts of the pandemic on the world of work?
40:30 - Doug shares the shifts in leadership styles or approaches that are called for - in order not to lose effectiveness in our digital/ virtual or post-COVID world. Doug breaks down the need for leaders at all levels to evolve from the "one size fits all" world view and redefine the definition of fairness post-COVID.
43:28 - KD closes it out by asking Doug who is his BEST HIRE EVER? Doug talks about the collective profile of his leadership team, but also talks about the BEST HIRE HE DID NOT MAKE!!
SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:
---------Doug Dean
Doug Dean on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 28 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Trent Cotton, a longtime star in the TA/Recruiting arena, about his new TA leadership role at Bureau Veritas Group. KD digs in to Trent's background and his unique approach to running a TA department via Agile principles, which he calls "Sprint Recruiting."
Lots to learn from in this one! Trent is a star and someone that is unafraid to challenge conventional wisdom as needed.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
Quick Hitters:
1:25 - Trent describes his new role at Bureau Veritas Group and why he made the move to the new company. If you're not scared, it's probably not challenging you!
5:47 - Trent talks about the Hardest thing about taking a new TA leadership role in the middle of a pandemic – that we wouldn't expect. He had to learn a new organization's norms related to COVID - for a company that prides itself on safety services.
7:40 - KD asks Trent for a movie that’s on all the time that reminds him of his life in TA. He goes with "The Greatest Showman!" KD loves it and thinks Trent wants to be Hugh Jackman!
10:32 - Trent shares his opinion of the lowest hanging fruit that is available to most TA leaders when they take a new job. He uses his experience in Sales to focus on getting to know the business leaders and the business model in his new company.
12:32 - Does Trent still have cable? No - he cut it in 2012! He tracks his streaming bill and spend 35% of the old bill. KD checks for shared passwords.
13:30 - Trent shares one thing he didn’t expect when he joined BV that made his TA life easier. BV and the leadership was hungry for new ideas and vision, didn't limit him to what existed. KD asks Trent if he knew it would be this wide open when he interviewed - he didn't, so he's pleasantly surprised.
Deeper Dives
15:30 - KD and Trent talk about his approach to TA and Recruiting and how he merged Agile techniques with recruiting.
17:11 - Trent breaks down the overarching philosophy called SPRINT RECRUITING, telling us what it is and how it works.
18:45 - Trent shares the four steps to his approach to recruiting. He sounds a lot like a software development Director!
20:40: Trent's a new TA leader, and one of the things he believes is that everything can’t be a priority. KD asks Trent to share his point system to force hiring managers to pick priorities and think about this in a different way.
28:00 - Trent and KD talk about a 2-week sprint and why that makes sense for recruiting teams - don't report or measure too much, or too little.
28:52 - Trent and KD talk about feedback agreements – what’s a best practice in getting the other side (hiring leaders) to commit? How does Trent get that buy-in? How does his team hold them accountable when they don’t live up to their end?
36:35 - KD asks Trent to share the details on his book, Sprint Recruiting - order it here!!
38:21 The Close: Who is Trent's BEST HIRE EVER? He names real names and it happened 17 years ago!
SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:
---------Trent Cotton
Trent Cotton on LinkedIn
Trent's New Book - Sprint Recruiting
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 27 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with the amazing Stephanie Lilak (CHRO of Dunkin' Brands) on variety of topics, including her favorite interview questions, how she works to make sure Dunkin' gets the talent it needs, what she learned in her first year as a CHRO (that nobody told her) and more.
Steph and Kris share their favorite HR phrases and Steph shares the common characteristics of the people she considers her BEST HIRES EVER. A great episode!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
Steph and KD hit some rapid fire items:
4:00 - Stephanie shares her favorite interview question - "6 words that describe you" and "6 words others use to describe you" and interviews KD live. KD does...sort of OK.
5:50 - Stephanie shares what she's after when she asks those questions (speed, attention to detail, views of others about you) and shares where at times, it goes a bit dark if candidates struggle.
8:17 - Stephanie shares he "go-to" drink at Dunkin'.
9:03 - KD asks Stephanie for her favorite movie that reminds you how crazy her life in HR can be.
10:10 - KD asks Stephanie for the stage in the recruiting funnel in her career that always seems to need attention (apply, source, screen, hiring manager interview, make a selection, offer, hire).
12:49 - SL names the Boston sports team she's adopted since she's moved from General Mills in the Midwest… Spoiler alert - it's not the Patriots. KD talks about his love for the movie, "The Town"...
Deeper Dives:
17:30 - Change – what a career at General Mills, then the move to Dunkin'. What did Stephanie learn about herself the first year in as a CHRO? Anything she had to relearn since she had the great career at one company for so long? Deep thoughts here - it's lonely being a CHRO, and Stephanie didn't fully realize that until she was in the seat.
24:38 - KD asks Stephanie to comment on the key to making sure a company like DD gets its fair share of talent in the recruiting world? Lots of discussion about employment brand here - how does it contribute to the recruiting success, the "activation of employment brand" at Dunkin', both internally and externally by the tagline "Fueled by You."
30:55 - KD and Stephanie talk about COVID, company culture and the workplace. What are some things that are on her mind mind related to how her HR function and the company itself will morph as we (hopefully) get to the post-COVID period? We discuss the saying, "Life is a Bell Curve", at length here!
39:07 - Close: Who is Stephanie Lilak's BEST HIRE EVER and why? There's been twelve of them (!!), and she has a list that defines what it takes to reach that designation. Smart.
SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:
---------Stephanie Lilak
Stephanie Lilak on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 26 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Michael Cardman, Legal Editor at XpertHR, on the Department of Labor's (DOL) recent employer-friendly rule/guidance related to the classification of Independent Contractors in the American workforce.
Passed at the end of the Trump administration, Michael and Kris discuss the rule as announced on 1/6/21 and run through the 5-Factor Test when testing whether an individual qualifies as an independent contractor.
KD and Michael also cover the announcement by the Biden administration on intent to freeze this and other agency guidance not fully deployed in the USA and what this state of flux means to employers.
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---------Michael Cardman
Michael Cardman on LinkedIn
XpertHR
DOL 1/6/21 Guidance on Independent Contractors
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 25 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Tim Sackett about how Bonus Plan information drives candidate behavior and a recruiter's ability to close the candidate. Tim talks about catching a baby shark in Florida and KD whips up a Lifetime Movie script that could be about Tim Sackett, a double murder, and the baby killer shark he threw back into the gulf of Mexico.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:45 - Tim starts talking about catching a baby shark.
2:35 - KD starts pitching a Lifetime movie about Tim throwing the shark back into the ocean. It includes Tim going to prison after throwing the shark back, Mrs. Sackett getting him out of prison with DNA evidence, then finding himself in the ocean on a boogie board and the Shark comes back as an adult, circles Tim, but doesn't attack him. The movie is called, "Second Chance". LOL
6:30 - Tim and KD pivot and start talking about Bonus Objectives, and how they influence professional grade and leadership candidates. Do candidates care? What are they looking for? Tim breaks down the more savvy the candidate is, the more they care and want to talk about it before accepting the offer.
8:20 - KD and Tim talk about the difference between asking the bonus % (example, 20%) and asking what the bonus is actually based on. Tim says that savvy recruiters provide confidence that it's going to pay out without being super specific.
11:00 - Tim talks about what type of candidate really digs in and wants ALL the information behind the bonus percentage. The more passive and the more senior the candidate is and doesn't need a job, the more questions they're gong to ask.
14:15 - Tim and KD talk about type of Bonus Objectives that candidates hate - anything black and white, and anything that's based on revenue targets or other things they can't control. Shitty targets = unknown bonus payout.
17:50 - Tim talks about great candidates liking and not being afraid of specific revenue targets, as long as they are in charge and it's a internal locus of control.
21:20 - KD talks about the type of bonus objectives candidates love to see - it's the ones they get to write! MBOs for the win!
25:34 - KD and Tim talk about a new Microsoft bonus objective - INTEGRITY. It sounds great, but Tim and KD talk about how hard it is to measure actual integrity - because you don't know there's an issue with integrity until it's gone.
31:30 - Tim and KD talk about the weirdest bonus objectives they've ever had.
SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:
---------Tim Sackett
Tim Sackett on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 24 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Blake Babcock about the pros and cons of using a confidential recruiting search prior to making a move on an underperforming team member. Blake and KD discuss optics, when to use and not use confidential search, as well as the challenges with the process and more.
Blake and KD bookend the serious part of the convo with memories of a Disrupt HR event with a lot of drunk people and a conversation about college football and how Ohio State can't keep players and staff members from getting Covid. Good times!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
2:00 - Blake and KD talk about when they met - at a 2016 Disrupt HR event in Cleveland that had a bunch of alcohol flowing and slightly intoxicated presenters started using the F bomb in awkward ways.
8:15 - KD and Blake start the conversation about how confidential search has a bad rap and while it shouldn't be used a lot, could be used a bit more than it is.
11:25 - When’s the right time and the wrong time to use a confidential search? Blake and KD discuss. Blake adds to KD's thoughts, framing up confidential search as a great way to dip your toe in the water and figure out what the market is without fully committing. Candidate background, cost and client sticker shock are discussed!
16:30 - Blake and KD talk about confidential search being used as a counter to managing expectations for team members that think they could be the next leader, but aren't ready. Spoiler: The whole thing is complicated.
23:25 - KD and Blake talk about communications to candidates in a confidential search, when to disclose the client/company and more.
26:40 - What should you expect to pay for confidential search? Turns out if you want quality, you should expect to pay something up front.
29:12 - KD can't help but talk about confidential search by comparing the Auburn coaching search vs the Texas coaching search. #decisiveness vs #victim
36:17 - Ohio State can't get their shit together with COVID. BB and KD laugh about it and break down.
SHOW NOTES AND RESOURCES:
------------Blake Babcock
Blake Babcock on LinkedIn
Staffing Solutions Enterprises
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 23 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with former HR exec and workplace expert Laurie Ruettimann, digging into her past and present views on work, the state of HR and being a professional worker in America. Laurie and KD discuss her new book (out 1/12/21, click to view) called Betting On You, which digs into the power of putting yourself first to find career success and happiness.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:30: Stage banter with KD and LR.
3:40: Laurie and KD talk about the roller coaster of 2020 and the need for a workplace/career/relationship reset. We're looking to drop the fear and get reengaged.
5:50: KD outlines Laurie's past as an HR pro and a shitstirrer via the blog PunkRockHR.com, which was incredible. Laurie digs into the reinvention of what she spends her time working on and how the transition happened.
16:40 - Laurie and KD dig into the book. What's up with the title? Where did the idea come from? Why is this important to her?
19:50 - KD asks Laurie to talk deeper about the concept of well-being and self care, which he acknowledges career professionals generally discount.
25:00 - Laurie and KD talk about the problems career professionals have disconnecting from work and all the issues that result from failure to take time for themselves.
33:30 - Laurie talks about the big concepts in the book - take care of you, the ability of slackers to be more productive when working and more. Burnout is discussed as well.
36:25 - Laurie talks about the fact that everyone who's good/great has been fired once, and the lessons learned from that.
40:00 - Laurie talks about the ability to ask being key in any negotiation or scenario at work. KD pitches in with what he's learned related to leverage and using it proactively.
42:00 - Laurie outlines the concept of professional distance at work, which protects you from being disappointed by bad stuff at work.
Order the book here!
In Episode 22 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with California resident (born and bred) news editor and professor John Hollon about the defeat of Proposition 16 in the November 2020 election, which would have allowed the reinstatement of affirmative action style quotas and preferences in public hiring, contracting and education in California. Voters in the Golden state rejected it by a margin of 57% to 43%, even though proponents of the bill outspent the opposition by a margin of 16/1.
John and Kris have a wide ranging conversation about the bill, including John's rundown of the history of such legislation in the state and his reaction as a California resident. The conversation then turns to an examination of California's multicultural makeup and the fact it is a preview of the future version of America - and what we can learn about multicultural attitudes towards Affirmative Action and the impact of those diverse views to corporate DEI programs today and in the future.
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RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------John Hollon
John Hollon on Linkedin
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 21 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks with Rob Kelly of OnGig to do a deep dive into OnGig's recent ATS (applicant tracking system) Market Share report. Focused primary on surveying enterprise-level companies, there's a ton of gold in the findings as Kris and Rob talk about the current state of the ATS market and compare and contrast what's happened in ATS-land since 2018. Spoiler alert - a LOT has changed.
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RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------OnGig and Rob Kelly
OnGig
OnGig ATS Market Share Report
Rob Kelly on Linkedin
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 20 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn breaks down the 2020 Recruiter Nation Survey from Jobvite with Kelly Lavin (SVP of Talent at Jobvite) and Tim Sackett. The survey is a leading piece of research on how recruiters are feeling and working annually, and this year's release speaks volumes about how recruiters are feeling in the middle of COVID. Serious stuff as well as recruiters use of IG and TikTok, as well as recruiter turn-offs when viewing candidates on social.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
2:40 - Kelly talks about her love for the HR Capitalist blog, etc. Kris wants to hear more. Tim doesn't.
5:10 - Kelly breaks down the reason for the Recruiter Nation Survey - the reason for it, what is is and why it is important.
6:48 - KD talks about the survey size and the MARGIN OF ERROR - in a shoutout to an election year.
7:30 - The gang talks about the biggest downwards shifts in where recruiters are no longer spending their time and money during COVID (pipelining, time to hire, employer brand, candidate experience and increasing retention rate). Wow. So much honesty in 2020.
13:55 - The gang talks about the upwards shifts in time spent and investment (managing layoffs and diversity hiring). Kelly, KD and Tim wonder why the focus on diversity hiring didn't trend upward more. Lots of honesty in the report from recruiters.
17:45 - Kelly, Tim and Kris talk about what the survey says about video interviewing and where recruiters think candidates struggle with video interviews. 95% of recruiters think they are good at viewing interviewing. Tim thinks most of the recruiters think they are good at it because they've never been on the candidate side in a video interview. Kelly breaks down the issues with eye contact in a video interview.
24:30 - Tim talks about where recruiters are spending their time via the survey - social media and LinkedIn. Tim hates it. He rightfully points to the candidate database and referrals as where the hires are.
25:55 - KD mocks the uptick in use of Instagram and TikTok for recruiter purposes. Kelly learns about how KD gets the best TikTok videos in next to no time spent. Kelly and Tim lead a real conversation about how TikTok might be used in a smart way by TA teams.
28:43 - KD leads a conversation from the survey results about biggest "recruiter turnoffs" when viewing a candidate on social media (skin shots, use of pot and of course - spelling errors. LOL). Stalk much?
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Kelly Lavin, Jobvite and Tim Sackett
Kelly Lavin on Linkedin
Jobvite
The 2020 Recruiter Nation Survey
Tim Sackett on Linkedin
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 19 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Corey Burns, Director of Recruiting and Development at General RV Center, about what it's like to recruit for a business that is booming (not struggling) during COVID-19.
Corey and KD discuss Corey's dual title of recruiting and development, how high end and entry level candidate pools have morphed during the aftermath of COVID, hiring manager behavior during COVID searches and more.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
2:00 - KD asks Corey about his dual role in recruiting and learning and development - Corey explains the connection.
4:35 - Corey breaks down the RV business, why it's blowing up during COVID, what that means for recruiting and more.
7:14 - KD asks Corey about the experience of going into a pandemic-flavored recession as an employer with lots of open jobs - what's the candidate pool like and what are the challenges?
10:00 - Corey talks about the fact that jobs under 50K have become harder, while jobs above 50K are easier to fill. KD and Corey talk about the reasons for this reality and the trends in the under 50K candidate pool.
13:00 - KD asks Corey to comment on what he noticed about candidate behavior once they had applied or were sourced - what was important to those candidates? Corey talks about the increase in candidates wanting to know how the company treated employees during COVID, what their plan was, etc.
19:30 - Corey talks about changes to the recruiting process to deal with the smaller available pipeline during COVID, specifically a bigger focus on the referral program.
24:10 - KD asks Corey about Hiring Manager behavior during COVID - why hiring managers might behave like they did in the past recession, expecting an endless supply of candidates due to increasing unemployment rates.
28:30 - KD asks Corey to think about the RV space and make a recommendation on what RV he would put the Dunn family in if he was a sales pro at General RV Center.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Corey Burns
Corey Burns on Linkedin
General RV Center
Corey Burns on Fistful of Talent
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 18 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Joel Cheesman, founder of Poach and Ratedly (as well as a co-host of the aptly-named Chad and Cheese Podcast) about the addition of Diversity Ratings on the Glassdoor platform.
Joel and KD discuss the new rating and what it means for company reputation, the complicated relationship between Indeed and Glassdoor and how smart EB/Marketing/HR/TA pros can use the DEI focus to grow and protect their careers in a recession.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
1:25 - Joel breaks down his work at Poach and Ratedly. Poach follows employee sentiment and tells you when to reach out to great talent at a company that's thinking about jumping. Ratedly aggregates review sites so you can track what's being said about your company without logging into 15 review sites.
4:40 - Joel covers and outlines new Glassdoor ratings in the area of DEI and Diversity. Are you ready for your employees to rate your company on diversity? Sure you are...
8:30 - KD and Joel talk about the number of ratings needed at a company for the diversity rating to appear - a disadvantage for SMBs.
9:30 - KD breaks down big company current DEI ratings on Glassdoor and Joel reacts. It's complicated.
12:05 - Joel breaks down the complicated relationship between Indeed and Glassdoor, which are owned by the same PE firm. The companies had a 28% drop in revenue during the COVID period.
14:50 - Joel and KD talk about who has more leverage in the world of HR and TA - Glassdoor or Indeed.
16:40 - KD asks Joel about the potential to show Glassdoor ratings on the Indeed platform, etc.
19:20 - Joel breaks down the challenge specifically for Employment Brand and marketing pros during the downturn, and how DEI branding presents an opportunity for them to survive in a pandemic flavored recession.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Joel Cheesman
Poach.ai
Ratedly
The Chad and Cheese Podcast
Joel Cheesman on LinkedIn
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 17 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Kenny Nguyen, CEO and co-founder of ThreeSixtyEight, on the power of leaders who run businesses going ALL IN to invest their time, money and resources back into the communities they live in. Kenny shares his story of why he's ALL IN to helping Baton Rouge be everything it can be and why Kenny's business pursuits always intersect with making Baton Rouge as good as it can be.
Along the way, KD and Kenny talk about how leaders at all types of companies can become more involved in the cities they live in and the benefits of doing so.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS: 2:17 – Kenny and KD start with the normal stuff – where Kenny grew up, went to college and what happened when he got out of college – why did he stay in Baton Rouge?
10:20 – Kenny breaks down the term “Cajun Asian” for KD, and talks about being an underdog as an entrepreneur.
12:20 – Kenny talks about when he knew he was not only going to stay in Baton Rouge, but he was going ALL IN on Baton Rouge?
13:56 – KD and Kenny talk about his triple play going on related to his investment in Baton Rouge – he started a business, invested in a restaurant and even did to a conference series called “Assembly Required” where he brings in speakers to BR to raise the talent level in his city.
18:55 – KD asks Kenny on what he gets by being so focused on Baton Rouge. They discuss what’s in it for him, and the synergies he has seen by having so much of his life tied up in his local community.
20:45 – Kenny shares his advice for executives who want to get more involved in their local communities. He recommends a book, “Wealth: Is it Worth It” by the founder of Chik-fil-A.
23:10 - KD asks Kenny whether he has tried other things related to community involvement that didn't work. Kenny shares great stories on projects that didn't work, including one called "Stance!"
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Kenny Nguyen
Kenny Nguyen on LinkedIn
KennyNguyen.com
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 16 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Jason Lauritsen on the always hot topic of Faking it at Work vs Being Authentic at Work. Jason and KD discuss what being authentic really means as a candidate and an employee, the risks and rewards of being authentic, and the zombie-like existence of those who choose a life of faking it at work (whether by choice or via tough economic circumstances).
KD and Jason also discuss building teams as a hiring manager on the recruiting trail via authenticity.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 1:43 - Jason and KD talk about his current focus - speaker, writer and consultant in the world of HR and healthy workplaces, and he's currently ramping up online courses for that domain. He's also learning the harmonica, KD actively envisions him breaking the harmonica out is pocket and jamming with a house band. Which. Is. Awesome. 4:00 - Jason and KD set the stage by talking about a post he did this month on being authentic at work vs faking it. Jason reacts to someone who encouraged people to fake it at work, defines his view of being authentic in the workplace and why it's so valuable. 10:35 - Why do people feel compelled to fake it in the recruiting process or the workplace? Jason and KD chop it up. 12:13 - KD and Jason talk about how average level opportunities go down when you're authentic, but the intensity of opportunity across what remains goes exponentially up. 15:27 - Jason and KD carve up definitions of fake it, fake it until you make it, being authentic and more related to the workplace. Turns out being authentic isn't just letting your freak flag fly, it's hard work and intentional, and protects relationships rather than destroying them. 23:40 - Jason and KD talk about being authentic on the recruiting trail, breaking down what it means for candidates and hiring managers. How does it differ from employees already working for a company? Jason/KD discuss. Along the way, Jason and KD discuss the expert definition of being authentic, as well as some of the greatest advantages and risks to anyone in the workplace who focuses on being authentic. RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
Jason Lauritsen on Linkedin
Jason Lauritsen.com
Jason's article on Authenticity vs Faking It at Work
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 15 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Siadhal Magos, co-founder of Metaview, on using a data-driven approach to make Hiring Manager interviews more effective. Siadhal and KD talk about how voice to text transcription of interviews can enable AI, giving Hiring Managers feedback on their effectiveness and improving an organization's selection process over time.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
2:00 - KD asks Siadhal (based in London) to set up what Metaview does with transcription and analysis, which is the basis for some of the great data observations on hiring manager interviews Siadhal will share.
6:49 - Siadhal and KD talk about his experience at Uber, where he built and led product teams in a period when the company grew from 7,000 to 17,000 people in under two years and learned a lot about where organizations struggle with interviewing.
12:00 - Siadhal breaks down what the data says about where hiring managers struggle the most in interviews related to getting the info they need.
19:33 - KD and Siadhal talk about what is a good goal for interviewer speaking time (vs candidate "air"/speaking time).
25:33 - Siadhal talks about what the data says related to the sweet spot for the right number of questions in an interview.
29:15 - Siadhal breaks down Metaview learnings for follow up question count - what's the floor and the ceiling for follow ups from Hiring Managers?
34:00 - KD and Siadhal discuss where companies struggle most post-interview when it’s time to make the hire/don’t hire or go/no-go decision?
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
Siadhal Magos on Linkedin
Metaview
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 14 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Leah Daniels, SVP of Strategy at Appcast, to discuss recent research into Apply Rates and Cost Per Application on the recruiting trail, with traditional trends contrasted with post-COVID data and a discussion of what comes next. Leah and KD use the recent Appcast report covering 45 million job clicks and 3 million applies to find the most interesting trend lines to help you figure out what comes next in 2020 and 2021!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:29 – KD welcomes Leah Daniels from Appcast. Leah describes how programmatic serves as a natural aggregator of recruiting trends and can provide a great basis to determine what works, what doesn’t, and how to get better candidates with better ROI.
6:10 – Leah talks a bit about her career including research, strategy and data-focused roles at Zoom Info prior to joining the team at Appcast.
8:45 – KD and Leah intro the research she recently released, the 2020 Midyear Recruitment Marketing Benchmark Report, including 3 millions applies and 45 million clicks – enough data to be super meaningful.
10:15 – Leah breaks down the value of data-driven recruiting with specific impacts to the post-COVID recruiting scene, the CARES Act, etc.
12:05 – KD and Leah break down the need to take data and be Agile in your recruiting practice. Leah talks about the agility needed during the COVID period – noting that increasing bids generally didn’t work during COVID, but other strategies such as adjusting job titles was surprisingly effective. Leah breaks down the opportunity in job titles to increase apply rates – including hourly rate, shift, notes on “hiring right now”, etc – in times like the COVID crisis.
19:20 – Leah and KD discuss the concept of “hunkering down”, when great candidates are hesitant to make a move in recessions – which increases the pressure on employers and recruiters to attract great talent that already has a decent job.
23:15- Leah discusses the value of making sure you post your jobs on the right day of the week (generally Monday as most cost effective and Tuesday as highest apply rate) to increase Apply Rate and reduce Cost Per Apply. Generally speaking, people are more engaged in applying early in the week.
25:20 – Leah discusses why candidate search and apply becomes more expensive on weekends.
27:45 – Leah breaks down the need to look at your apply process from a mobile-first perspective.
29:45 – KD wants to know why HR pros are the most active profession in applying for jobs during the COVID crisis! Leah gives a HR-friendly answer!
33:50 – KD and Leah discuss what the data shows recruiters can do to improve their results – day of the week of posting, job titles, opening lines in description.
35:10 – Leah breaks down the Glassdoor rating that is needed to acquire candidates at an affordable rate – companies with good Glassdoor ratings have lower CPC and cost per application.
40:10 – KD asks Leah (who lives in Boston) to fully commit to Cam Newton! She does, but refuses to abandon Tom Brady!
In Episode 13 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Kinetix HR Consultant, Jennifer Hoffer, about the nuances and positives of facilitating leadership training classes virtually using Zoom – the awkward moments, the tools available, the power of live skill practice via Zoom breakout rooms, ability to engage, etc.
They discuss initial expectations in needing to adapt to the times and switch from live training to facilitating on a virtual platform and being pleasantly surprised with some of the advantages of virtual training.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
2:50 – The Power of Names – KD and Jenn discuss that her kid might be either an Avenger or a Navy Seal when he grows up because his name is bad@$$.
10:35 – Brace yourselves. Kris and Jenn discuss why using the Breakout Rooms in Zoom for discussion and skill practice are actually better than live training. (Gasp)
12:10 – Did you know the Zoom Breakout Rooms have multiple features you can customize for your training groups? Kris and Jenn talk about manually or automatically assigning participants to groups, controlling the time, “ask for help” features, etc.
15:00 – Kris talks about the power of using a “cheat sheet” or job-aid for your skill practice framework via Zoom and how managers can benefit from this in live conversations with employees going forward.
18:46 – Zoom, this one’s for you. Kris and Jenn have a wish list for you to make virtual training via your platform even better.
23:35 – Finally, you can only pick one – live or virtual. You’ll be surprised what they choose.
27:30 - KD and Jenn talk about the need for more product development on the "general session" or "full class" environment to compliment some of training advantages of Zoom Breakout rooms.
In Episode 12 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Phil North (VP of People at Handled) and John Hollon (Managing Editor at Fuel 50, Sr. Writer at Fistful of Talent) about AB-5 and Prop 22, battling laws and upcoming votes on the classification of contractors in California, their impact on hot gig economy apps like Uber and Lyft and the potential spread of similar employment law across the US.
This is one of the best breakdowns you'll find of what's going on, so check the timestamps for what interests you most below and get in the know!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
2:09 - John Hollon provides the best breakdown you'll find of AB5 (Assembly Bill 5) in California (passed 1/1/2020). John breaks down the 3-point test related to what constitutes an employee or contractor in California (while KD interjects and does commentary), talks about the sponsors of the bill and the broad impact to the gig economy.
12:00 - Phil North (HR Leader at Handled) talks about being a VP of People and the impact of AB5 building a W2/1099 workforce in California and beyond. He talks about his experience learning the gig economy by becoming an Uber driver and how his company navigated AB5 to do business in California. KD and Phil talk about how HR leaders can get costs down in this environment via technology and moving to viewing employment on a fractional basis.
24:00 - John, who lives in California, talks about Proposition 22 (on the ballot in November and funded by $100M in Uber and Lyft money), which looks to prevent drivers from being classified as employees but does nothing to help other professions covered by AB5. John talks about the 30 lawsuits currently pending in California, the reaction of Uber and Lyft to the bill, as well as pre-emptive strikes by a host of other states to make sure AB5 can't spread to their workforces.
29:36 - The team talks about how companies and some prominent business leaders are leaving California as a result of items like AB5. KD also talks about how his son automatically got the impact of AB5 on a host of gig economy apps after a brief conversation.
40:00 - Phil does his best Gary V and says that regardless of the outcome of Prop 22 and potential spread of AB5 type of stuff, business leaders will find a way. KD agrees and John shares the opinion that cooler heads will prevail, but it's complicated given the other challenges in California.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------ Phil North and John Hollon
Phil North on LinkedIn
John Hollon on LinkedIn
John's AB5 post on Fistful of Talent
AB5 on Wikipedia
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 10 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with EVP and CHRO John Whitaker about executive onboarding - where it works, where it goes wrong and what new leaders need to think about as they enter a new organization. Along the way, they discuss a condition called "Imposter's Syndrome" and provide their hot takes on the best way out of the funk. John shares his experiences onboarding into companies as a new leader and tells KD what he's learned.
If you want to hear more from John, go subscribe at HRHardball.com, read Whit’s back catalog on FOT, and look for the HRHardball podcast debuting October 1st!”
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
2:10 - John and KD start by talking about Texas A&M (John) and Auburn (KD) football, the pandemic, et al. John shares that his road trip to Auburn was better than the one he took to Tuscaloosa (Alabama).
4:20 - John talks about his recent move from Sage to National Partners in Healthcare as an HR Leader, how the pandemic encouraged the move.
6:05 - KD and John talk about not knowing the language in a new industry, and John shares the fact he had his own slang he was throwing around to new teammates.
8:25 - Topic is being an incoming new leader at an organization – what do coming leaders generally mess up related to this? John and KD talk about where they feel like they've failed before? Announcing presence with authority is discussed.
13:00 - What the heck is “Imposter Syndrome” when it comes to new leaders? We talk about how it impacts women, men, etc.
19:50 - John and KD talk about what type of new leader doesn't feel imposter syndrome.
24:00 - KD and John discuss Imposter Syndrome at lower levels in the organization, good movement in companies on asking individuals to Lean In and learned roles in gender and beyond.
26:55 - What are the coping mechanisms for imposter syndrome? John tells the story of challenges he's faced from direct reports early in new roles, etc. John and KD discuss the agendas of people who come to you first, share their opinions about others, etc.
30:00 - John and KD discuss two profile new leaders meet in new roles - the "The Quiet One" and the "Apple Polisher."
38:00 - John and KD discuss whether onboarding for a new leader is necessary, or whether it's better for a new leader to figure it out on their own. "That's what the money is for" is discussed.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
John Whitaker on LinkedIn
HR Hardball (John's Site)
John's Writing on FOT
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 10 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Holland Dombeck McCue of Delta Air Lines about her career path as a Millennial with Maximum Drive & Ambition in the workplace. The conversation includes talk about Holland being one of KD's best hires ever at Kinetix, as well as the source of Holland's drive and ambition in the way she was raised and how she evaluates drive and ambition in others when evaluating candidates.
Millennials are good! Worth the listen alone for the story of how Holland got her second job at Walgreens as a 16 year old!
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:20 - KD makes Holland blush from praise from the jump!
2:00 - Holland shares how she and KD got connected in 2010 for her first job in marketing. Holland was too "quirky" for a Kinetix client, but the Kinetix recruiter in question flipped her to KD and the rest is history.
4:30 - Kris shares that Holland was probably the most focused young professional he’s ever seen related to drive and execution. Holland talks about what other people have told her related to her ambition, as well as the challenges of being a woman with drive in the workplace.
6:40 - Holland talks about her career arc from Kinetix to Cox Communications to Delta Airlines. #ATL
9:13 - Holland talks about where her drive and ability to execute comes from - was it Nature vs Nurture? Holland talks about how she was raised and exposed to at a young age. We discuss.
12:00 - Holland describes her first real job - a front desk at a dance studio. Holland talks about how she got the job and how she "lost" the job.
13:35 - Holland talks about how she got her second job at 16 - walking into Walgreens and demanding a job, noting that she wasn't impressed with the customer service at the location! #assertivenessInCandidates
15:30 - Coming out of recession as a college grand (something that many are going through now) – there wasn’t a job to found in what you wanted to do – so Holland went to work in retail in addition to doing the only internship she could find. Holland talks about that experience and what was on her mind as she was in that environment as a new grad.
22:00 - KD and Holland talk about societal views of being highly assertive - both as a young professional and as a woman.
25:10 - Holland talks about preferences for managers and the importance of being in the room as a young professional to learn to lead.
26:00 - KD and Holland talk about how she evaluates drive, initiative and execution in candidates for a job on her team. What are the markers she looks for and the responses to her questions that tells her someone is going to execute, own and perform at a high level?
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
Holland Dombeck McCue on Linkedin
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 9 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Katrina Kibben, CEO and Founder of Three Ears Media, on the value of great job postings and marketing materials, especially in a pandemic-flavored recession. Katrina and KD break down the elements of a job posting that generate results and talk about influencing candidates through great writing copy across all job marketing materials. Along the way, they talk about being a candidate in a pandemic/recession.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:05 - "What up, KD?"
1:30 - KD is a ray of sunshine as he delivers the Q2 GDP numbers and connects it to great job postings.
2:52 - A bit about the artist known as Katrina and Three Ears Media.
5:15 - KD wants to know about the the decision for Katrina to specialize and go DEEEEEEEEEEP in the job posting/job attraction space – why?
9:30 - What are 3 things people can improve on related to their job postings? Katrina breaks down the problems with 1) content being way too long, 2) bad intakes lead to bad content (buzzwords), and 3) Guessing and winging it. Katrina goes deep in each area and drops incredible knowledge.
16:10 - KD asks Katrina for the most challenging personas across hiring managers. A story about Missouri is part of the magic!
19:30 - KD focuses on what he views as the the pandemic/recession dilemma. You’re a hiring manager and need great talent. How do you convince people that your company will make it through and they can jump from where they are and be OK at the company you’re a part of? Katrina acknowledges the challenge but talks about people who have great jobs that are looking for more.
22:25 - Katrina and KD talk about the isolation via the Pandemic creating time to complement career paths with talented people.
24:00 - Katrina gets technical and breaks down the "Human About Us" portion of a job posting as being the place to create confidence in your company. Don't cut and past a press release. Talk about where you're at right now. Acknowledge the past, talk honestly about the bounce back, etc. #transparency
29:00 - KD asks Katrina how hiring managers can make candidates believe in them as a candidate.
35:10 - Katrina and KD wrap it up with WNBA talk.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Katrina Kibben
Katrina Kibben on Linkedin
Three Ears Media
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 8 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Jessica Lee, VP of Global Brand Talent at Marriott International, about growing up in a household with immigrant parents from South Korea. Jessica and Kris discuss her memories of growing up in that household related to themes of work and achievement, building to how that upbringing influenced her own career and choices on how she raises her own children.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
2:00 - Is it Jessica, JLee or JL? Not Jess or Jessie, BTW.
3:00 - KD talks about the pressure for college admissions, first jobs, etc. on today's young workers. KD points out that Jessica has done great things, but did not have a master plan at 22 or 23 years old. JLee agrees and talks about going on a date in DC with a guy who wanted to know her 5-year plan.
6:15 - Jessica describes growing up in a household with immigrant parents from South Korea. She talks about being a 1.5 or 2nd generation American. Jlee also talks about her first memories related to work and her parents.
8:35 - KD asks Jessica about her parent's desire to "create something" and whether they communicated that vision. JLee talks about the contrast between her parent's approach and her own relationship with her children.
10:45 - Jlee talks about her siblings, their achievements from a career perspective and her role as the youngest in a household with Korean heritage.
14:23 - JLee talks about what she sees in herself related to work based on her memories of being raised by immigrant parents. JLee talks about while expectations were high, there was an expectation/reality that they had to figure things out on their own, which is a cornerstone of who she is professionally.
17:45 - KD challenges JLee to find a single trait to attribute to one her parents and she comes up with a great one - her mother's attention to details and how everything communicates something specific to the outside world - appearance, communication, running a meeting, etc.
23:40 - Jessica talks about the connection of how she was raised to how she's trying to raise her own kids. She talks about the positive impact of having no safety net on her and her husband and struggling with how much her kids should be forced to struggle. JLee also talks about her parent's expectation of a professional career vs how she wants to influence her kids related to career choice. KD asks about what her 2nd generation Korean peers are doing related to safety nets for their children.
30:00 - Jessica talks about how mental illness in her family (peaking in her high school years) also influenced how she was raised and how she views the world, as well as the impact of losing her father when she was 20. All of it combined to provide her with drive and initiative, as well as her worldview. KD asks JLee if the mental illness didn't exist if she would still have the same drive from a career perspective.
35:00 - JLee shares info from her executive coaching sessions. SCOOP! KD and JLee talk about how having a limited safety net build self-awareness and urgency.
39:15 - KD is back to JLee as a parent! How is she going to weave all of it together - background, experiences and more - to get the best possible outcome for her kids? JLee talks about the balance between "stacking the deck" vs forcing them to bootstrap in life.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Jessica Lee
Jessica Lee
The HR Famous Podcast
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 7 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Kathy Rapp of hrQ on the changing landscape of hiring HR Leaders and Pros in a Post-COVID World. Kathy and Kris talk about the current state of the HR job market, what skills are in demand, where HR might have fallen short inside companies and what it all means for the HR job market moving forward.
Spoiler alert - Generalists are in increasing demand as staff size contracts and HR leaders face a wide ranging set of new demands.
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SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
“Only when the tide goes out do you discover who’s been swimming naked”.
--Warren Buffett (also used by Kathy Rapp)
1:55 - Kathy shares her career path through big company HR to something more entrepreneur in hrQ, which she breaks down related to how they serve the HR community.
4:35 - Then onto the current situation – what’s the current state of hiring for professional grade HR pros and leaders at the moment? Kathy talks about HR leaders taking on more, as well as organizations upgrading their HR Talent as a result of the new challenges.
7:00 - Kathy and KD talk about her writing at Fistful of Talent, and the origin story of how she started at FOT over a decade ago. It all started with a Def Leppard post.
11:00 - KD also asks about Kathy's creativity and willing to take risks and the impact it has had in her HR career. Kathy talks about her need for a right/left brain balance.
12:40 - Kathy and KD discuss the many misses HR functions experienced related to employee and internal communications during the COVID lockdown period.
14:30 - Kathy shares other areas where the bar has been raised for HR in a post-COVID worlds beyond comms - including Risk Management and DEI.
15:05 - Kathy and KD give their definition of "HR Generalist" and other titles (hint, it's a lifestyle rather than a career level). Kathy talks about the HRBP title, "people" designations, etc.
18:25 - Kathy and KD dig into what’s going on in the marketplace related to HR generalist vs specialist. The market is placing a premium on Generalist skills, and CHROs are rebuilding teams around the Generalist skill set. Kathy and KD talk about how long this vibe will last.
21:00 - Kathy talks about the need for HR pros to lead the conversation about "what's next". KR takes a shot at talking about "having a seat at the table" or "being strategic". Discussion follows related to what is needed vs flavor of the month rules the conversation.
22:50 - Kathy and KD talks about how HR candidates seeking employment need to modify their approach to land a job in this market. Building networks, create a personal board of advisors and staying mentally/physically strong.
27:00 - Kathy riffs on her best hire ever. She won't give KD a name, but gives us one of her secrets to hiring great people in her career.
29:36 - A true talent spotter, Kathy ranks the 3 distinct lineups of Van Halen.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Kathy Rapp
Kathy Rapp on LinkedIn
hrQ
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 6 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn chats with Matt Cowell of QuantHub on how to make great data and analytic hires for your organization. Matt and KD dig into the three different levels of hiring for data fluency in your organization and what's important with each type of hire. KD takes one for the team and asks all the basic questions you've been avoiding because you don't want to look like you don't get it.
Give this episode a listen and you'll be able to talk shop with the geeks, ranging from descriptive to prescriptive analytics, DATA LAKES (wtf) and have a sense for the ongoing education needed to keep the data savants you're lucky enough to hire for your organization happy and yes - retained.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:50 - How do you pronounce data? Matt shares that Kris had it right!! Major W right off the bat for KD.
3:10 - Definition of QuantHub – What does the company do? They figure out if you analytic and data hires know what they are talking about, and they help upskill them once they are in the door.
4:55 - Matt talks to KD about being data fluent in an organization? What does that mean? Matt breaks down descriptive analytics (what just happened) vs predictive/prescriptive analytics. Turns out the lower level is just as important as the higher level.
7:20 - KD asks matt to define the difference between 3 analytic/data jobs in the modern organization - Functional Analyst, Data engineer, AI Specialist. Let’s talk about those roles a bit.
12:35 - Matt gets cornered and has to describe what a DATA LAKE is, driven by tools that can do self discovery of data sets.
17:20 - Matt talks about relevant examples of A.I. in the HR and Recruiting worlds, focusing on video interviewing, as well as text and chat recruiting.
19:50 - Matt talks about natural language processing vs simple voice commands and the link to the concept of A.I.
21:20 - KD talks about what he's learned from Matt to deal with buzzwords on intake calls related what's required in the data job family.
26:30 - Matt talks about the need to use tools like QuantHub to upskill FTEs in your organization - especially since there aren't enough candidates to go around.
29:00 - KD and Matt talk about traditional training vs the concept of shorter cycle training that is curated from the web.
32:35 - KD challenges Matt as a data geek to give him his favorite analytics data points from basketball and baseball. He points to 3pt shooting and its impact on PPP in hoops, and launch angle and its impact on home runs and KOs in baseball.
RESOURCES AND SHOW NOTES:
------------Matt Cowell
QuantHub
Matt Cowell on Linkedin
------------Kris Dunn
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
In Episode 5 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn connects with Lance Haun (Starr Conspiracy, ERE, Former HR Pro) to talk about why hiring at least one great writer for your team makes incredible sense as a leader – regardless of your functional area or line of business. Lance and KD chop it up about how to spot, find and engage a candidate with writing skills in your hiring process, and how professionals looking to leverage their writing skills for career gain can get noticed.
Never satisfied with one great topic, KD and Lance also explore the Haun family’s history of sustainable meat and how Lance’s dad sees an explosion of business at his butcher shop when things like COVID hit the American marketplace.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:35 - KD starts by calling Lance Haun a killer writer. Lance blushes and begs off and calls his writing history a humbling experience.
2:04 - KD breaks down Lance. HR pro at the start, starting one of the first HR blogs, then becomes a professional writer in our space at ERE and Starr Conspiracy. Lance describes when he knew writing was his differentiator.
7:30 - Lance talks about “social proof” as being the addictive side of writing. Translation – reactions to your writing are good.
9:05: Lance and KD talk about the need for great talent to have writing skills. Lance talks about learning styles still including and being influenced by the written word. KD balks and says he thought that the world was being changed forever by video. #joking
12:55 – What’s the best way for a leader to test and confirm that someone can add value as a writer on their team? Lance recommends communicating more than normal via email as a test – long email threads. In addition, getting into someone’s process of creating written work product is key to understand their approach to the craft.
16:00 – Lance talks about knowing who the communicators are in your workplace and how that can help drive internal mobility in your company.
19:30 – KD talks about why all leaders – even if they are great writers – need to hire for writing skills so that leader can become an editor rather than a production writer. #delegate
20:00 – Lance and KD talk about the right way to show your writing skills as a candidate. Maximizing your LinkedIn profile and presence is the path of least resistance and greatest reach for most professionals.
24:00 – Lance and KD talk about negative bias that may exist towards professionals who share their thoughts via blogs, LinkedIn and social. Being vocal and sharing your thoughts may limit overall opportunity, but you’ll be a candidate of choice for many of the companies and hiring managers that remain.
28:30 – Lance talks about his dad, the butcher shop and how his dad’s business has gone up during the COVID crisis. KD thinks Lance could be the Gary V of meat. Lance talks about surprising his dad by running Facebook ads to drive traffic to the shop during normal times. Haunsmeats.com
SHOW NOTES:
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
Lance Haun on LinkedIn
Lance Haun on Twitter
Haun’s Meats in Walla Walla WA!
Welcome to Best Hire Ever, the podcast about hiring top talent with undeniably talented corporate leaders, recruiters and candidates hosted by Kris Dunn, Kinetix CHRO and partner (Founder of Fistful of Talent, The HR Capitalist and author of The 9 Faces of HR) Today KD interviews friend and mentor Harry Joiner to talk about how great candidates look on LinkedIn vs. their resume.
1:45: KD starts the episode by introducing Harry and talking about his origin story with his first eCommerce search.
5:15: KD and Harry talk about the recruiter grind, Harry discusses his personal journey and how long it took for him to go out on his own as a specialty headhunter in his 40s.
12:45: KD and Harry discuss the concept of the resume simply being in place to generate a LinkedIn search when it comes to candidates involved in high end searches
15:45: Harry discuss what happens when he’s on call with private equity types for a major search and presents resumes – they all start looking up the candidate online and the connections they have for on LinkedIn.
18:00: Harry says, resumes aren’t dead, yet. You can still include more insider information on resumes that can’t be promoted on LinkedIn but Harry says candidates need to be more specific on their skills in their LinkedIn Bio
19:50: KD and Harry talk about the dangers of listing your side hustles on LinkedIn, but how you can list those skills in another way.
22:05: Harry breaks down the concept of Price’s law of Economics, which basically means that the square root of any candidate pool in any industry is generating 50% or more of the value.
28:35: KD and Harry discuss the need for focus and identity in high end candidates, how overlap with positions can hurt them and make them look like less than the idea candidate.
Resources:
Kinetix
Harry Joiner on LinkedIn
Ecommerce Recruiter
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
KD's Book - The 9 Faces of HR
Welcome to Best Hire Ever, the podcast about hiring top talent with undeniably talented corporate leaders, recruiters and candidates hosted by Kris Dunn, Kinetix CHRO and partner (Founder of Fistful of Talent, The HR Capitalist and author of The 9 Faces of HR) Today KD interviews Liz Desio, a resident of NYC and HR Pro. They talk about Liz’s personal experience with a COVID-19 lay-off, writing, and HR.
1:08: KD introduces Liz, HR Pro and Candidate! KD gives some backstory on how they were introduced and why she’s on BHE
4:45: Liz takes us through her career. UVA grad, move to Brooklyn, hustling, getting hired in first HR job (hard knock life), getting out, getting a really good job in HR and then hitting COVID.
14:33: Liz’s take on being a new manager and the challenges she faced dealing with imposter’s syndrome.
16:05: KD asks Liz to share the story of getting laid off during Covid – You can check out her article here: https://medium.com/@lizdesio/making-peace-with-getting-laid-off-9bead164c43a
25:33: KD then pivots to reflective Liz, the one that wrote the post comparing herself to an early character on The Wire who gets killed off in season 1 - https://medium.com/@lizdesio/when-trying-to-switch-career-fields-makes-you-feel-like-dangelo-from-the-wire-4102c0bded99
33:48: KD and Liz discuss his take that recruiting prepares you to be an HR Generalist better than most.
40:15: KD asks Liz what your dream job is in HR. They discuss.
Kinetix
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
KD's Book - The 9 Faces of HR
Liz Desio on Medium
Liz Desio on LinkedIn
On the second episode of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn talks to Connie Costigan, VP of Communications and Brand Advocacy at Saba Software, about her key in making great hires - the ownership mindset. Connie and KD discuss the challenges of identifying hires with the ability to create and display total ownership as part of the interviewing process.
Related topics discovered and discussed include "storming and norming" and "Connie time", which is really just KD trying to poke fun at Connie and throw her off her game. Connie has none of it, and deflects KD's attempts to disrupt like the communications leader she is!
Deep cuts on this podcast include early lessons from hiring L's, as well as how Connie goes deep in her interviews to uncover ownership markers and the ying/yang nature of humility and ownership mindset as candidates navigate any interview process.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
1:30 - KD intros the podcast by gushing about Connie's management style and team - Connie does the "aw shucks" thing.
6:20 - Buzzword alert!! Connie talks about Storming and norming. KD loves it and is going to use it daily.
8:40 - Connie talks about what she learned from early hiring stumbles.
16:00 - Connie tells the story of a past CEO taking her down (for growth!) related to thinking she had to be the smartest person in the room.
16:45 - Connie breaks down her formula for her Best Hires Ever - seeking candidates who are 1) experts in what they do, 2) having humility as part of a team, and 3) THE KEY - having an ownership mindset where they get things done in fluid, ever-changing environment with limited hand-holding.
16:45- KD and Connie talk about hiring subject matter experts who know more than you do as a manager.
17:45 - Connie breaks down the need for humility as part of team as part of her formula for making a great hire. KD and Connie have a conversation around the fact that interviewing is a balancing act for candidates - they really have to talk about all the great things they do, but do it in a way that doesn't seem ego-filled. Connie breaks down the markers for humility as part of an interview process - balancing the fact they did great individual things, but had to have other people involved to get it done.
21:30 - Connie and KD break down ownership mindset - Connie breaks down her specific view of what it is, how to identify it, etc. Connie talks about the need to maintain visibility as a leader to what others are doing. Gold standard for ownership mindset - "I don't have to tell you what to do or how to do it.'
23:00 - Connie talks about the markers you'll hear in an interview that indicate someone has an ownership mindset. KD points out that this is all full of peril for anyone who's interviewing with Connie.
2538- Connie and KD talk about behavioral assessment markers that show someone has an ownership mindset. Cognitive/assertiveness/rules orientation. They end up talking about how they use manuals (spoiler - they don't)
28:50 - Connie talks about the need for people with an ownership mindset also being creators in your company.
Best Hire Ever with Kris Dunn gets kicked off with this mini-episode describing what the podcast is about, who he'll talk to and why it matters. Start here if you want the Jerry McGuire-like mission statement from KD.
Resources:
The HR Capitalist
Fistful of Talent
Kinetix
Boss Leadership Training Series
Kris Dunn on LinkedIn
Kris Dunn on Twitter
Kris Dunn on Instagram
KD's Book - The 9 Faces of HR