The Zeitcast with Jonathan Martin: Recent Episodes
Jonathan Martin
The Zeitcast is a daily podcast that aims to speak to the spirit of the moment we are in. Exploring the intersections of spirituality and pop culture/news/film/music, Jonathan Martin and guests speak to the spirit of the times with equal parts wonder and irreverence.
One of my favorite conversations on or off mic with anybody any time--it is pure joy to welcome adrienne maree brown--an absolute force of a writer/public intellectual/creative genius, one of the thinkers who energizes me most, and makes me feel most hopeful about the future. This conversation has everything: from Kendrick (and the constructive implications of Drake being "called in!"), to the Neverending Story, to what it means for her to be "steeped in God/steeped in the holy," her journey from a conservative evangelical upbringing to the wide open spaces she is in now, to the essential soul to soul recognition we can have that transcends the boundaries of mere words, and how she finds a way to remain tender in a time that feels anything, but. In a moment that feels bleak for many of our friends, her clear-eyed assessment of this apocalyptic time--and yet absolute fearlessness about it, is oxygen, an invitation to the kind of "long time" she finds in nature and her own connection to a larger story. I was especially excited to talk to her too, about how her work in her brilliant new book Loving Corrections has helped me find language for naming our need for acknowledging harm and making amends, without the moralistic baggage that religious versions of those ideas sometimes carry.
You may know her from books like Emergent Strategy, Pleasure Activism, We Will Not Cancel Us, or from her hilarious and poignant IG posts, or have heard her in conversation with folks we love like Glennon Doyle and Krista Tippett. She is "growing a garden of healing ideas. Informed by decades of movement facilitation, somatics, science fiction scholarship and doula work." However you know her, I hope you know her or get to know her better, and contend with her critical witness . What a gift this stunning conversation is! It has been a minute from my brief holiday/winter term hibernation, but we are back with a bang, with a lot more goodness to come in the days ahead...I know you will find this as life-giving as I did!
What was supposed to be a conversation about Advent, turned into the kind of surprise that Advent portends—where the strange wonderful thing that you didn’t know that you needed, just kind of happens to you out of nowhere. A vulnerable conversation between friends still not entirely sure what they want to be when they grow up about aging, creativity, what we want to do with what we still have left in the tank, the second half of life….and yes, ultimately, Advent too. We hope you enjoy this minor Christmas miracle of a conversation with our friend Scott Erickson, an artist, author, and performance speaker who is creating a visual vocabulary for the spiritual journey.
Today is our first full on TYPECAST! Answering questions submitted via our website, and this first round of questions is FANTASTIC. Really all questions about life on the "other side"/reconstruction today--after loss of faith/trauma/shift in faith, how do you approach Scripture now? How might the text become re-enchanted again? How do you find a new community, exactly? Oh, and in the evolving landscape of Pentecostalism, are there actually inclusive communities out there? We get into all of this and more!
Yes we did simply mash up the respective titles of BZ and Jonathan's Advent books, lol! Some things just go together, like Batman and Robin, peanut butter and jelly, Laurel and Hardy--as much as they both love Advent, how could it be too soon for another collab?! In a conversation that will absolutely get you in the Advent spirit, Brian and Jonathan explore Advent themes of hope, waiting, and the significance of the church calendar. They talk about how the harsh realities of the little town of Bethlehem shape the contours of the story, then and now, and why we need more Mary in our lives. They emphasize the non-prescriptive nature of Advent as a time to wait for God to act, not for us to "act right"/do more. They also talk about the tension between longing as Advent is a time to fully acknowledge the ways the world is not yet made right, and yet also how it is a time to make space for joy. Oh and course, they also talk about Nick Cave and Bob Dylan.
Both Brian's book The Anticipated Christ and Jonathan's The Book of Waiting, are available now!
Whatever it is, you’re waiting on, however long you’ve been waiting…Advent is for you. Here is a jarring, startling word that summons us to wake up, pay attention…to be alert. We talk about the apocalyptic nature of Advent, and the danger of religious certainty. Also, some practical things you can do to incorporate Advent into your own spiritual practice!
Oh come let us wait for him…together.
Rolling Stone said that "Brandan Robertson is spreading the good news of an inclusive, modern gospel.” Jonathan has known Brandan all the way since he was still a student at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago over ten years ago, so what a gift to have this full circle conversation! Brandan and Jonathan talk about why the language of sin still matters despite the misuse, what it means to build bridges in such a polarizing time, and the stubborn persistence of Advent hope against the backdrop of so much chaos in the world. Brandan shares vulnerably about his theological journey from fundamentalism, to being broken open by figures like Richard Rohr, to the recent experience of having a parishioner tell him that he didn't think it was okay for him to be a gay pastor. Brandan also talks about how he deals pastorally and theologically with some of the "clobber texts" that are used against LGBTQ+ inclusion.
Brandan is the author of True Inclusion: Creating Communities of Radical Embrace, and known as the "TikTok Pastor" for his inclusive theological content, reaching over 280,000 followers online. He currently serves as the Pastor of Sunnyside Reformed Church in New York City.
There's a new U2 album (kind of, the shadow album that is How to Re-assemble an atomic bomb), so as you might imagine...Jonathan is in a state! It's a whole situation. Also, Cobra Kai, pop culture round up (What We Do in the Shadows, The Bulwark podcast), and The Book of Waiting
"Prophetic" and "pastoral" rarely go together...but they do in Rev. CeCe Jones Davis, which is why THIS is the two weeks later, spiritual postmortem of the election you need in your life! CeCe and Jonathan discuss the challenges of navigating relationships in a divided world and the role of racism and LGBTQIA issues in political discourse. CeCe emphasizes the importance of understanding fear as a driving force in politics, and vulnerably shares why she both decided NOT to vote in this year's presidential election---and then, why she changed her mind. They discuss the challenges of staying engaged with current events while maintaining personal well-being, the significance of accountability in one's vocation, and the necessity of humor in the face of adversity. Cece shares her experiences and insights on how to balance the heaviness of social justice work with the need for personal joy and connection with family. The dialogue culminates in a reflection on maintaining a steadiness of soul amidst turbulence, advocating for a proactive yet patient approach to spiritual engagement.
The systems and structures and institutions that have held us up are crumbling. There’s no need to bury our heads in the sand. Things do come to an end. But other folks have lived through such perilous times. In fact, some of the texts that folks have told us are all about the future, are actually now in the rear view window of history. We can look at how folks have lived in such times before, to know where and how to stand now. We can learn what is to not be paralyzed by the chaos, but bear witness—to not overthink it, but trust the creativity of the Spirit to give us what to say when we are called on the carpet.
You can’t bear the weight of the world on your shoulders, friend…the only thing you can bear, is to bear witness.
What on earth does it mean to worship in a time like this!? What does it mean to worship when it feels like the world (and maybe even the church) is ambiguous to you, or even against you? Why is it that some of our neighbors feel a unique kind of grief this election season? How are current political realities connected to larger spiritual realities--and how do we differentiate between these principalities and powers, and our neighbors? Oh and hey, for those of you are involved in any kind of ministry--how would you begin to LEAD a church or community in worship, when there are deep idealogical and political division?
After a truly stunning time of worship with Lan Davis Wilson, I was scarcely able to speak coherently yet--but very grateful for this beautiful conversation coming right out of the fire of that experience!
I don't really have the words to name the electricity, joy and pain that we felt in the room at Gobin Church during this time of prayer through song with Rev. Lan Davis Wilson. I'd rather you feel it for yourself--feel it through your headphones, feel it through your car stereo, feel it through a tiny phone or a laptop. It is an absolute lightning bolt of Holy Ghost power, wrapping up all heartbreak, rage and stubborn hope into an hour that quite literally, left every single one of us sitting in stunned silence when it was over. There is so much room in these songs...room, for ALL OF IT.
If you are trying to figure out what role worship has in your life, in your work of faithful resistance; if you are sad or happy or completely ambiguous, if you need comfort or if you need fuel for the fire, if you have a pulse or breath at all...this is for you. Personally, I can tell you I wept through just about every moment of this. Drink it up, let the music nourish you, and if you feel so inclined, send it to somebody who needs this kind of soulful encouragement in their life right now. Warmly, Jonathan
Rev. Benjamin Kremer joins us for a very special Zeitcast, in which he and Jonathan rank the five Bible verses that are the most misused right now, and what's wrong with the whole Trump/King David thing! Along the way, they also talk about the ongoing critique of the prophets over against the kings in the Hebrew Bible, how Jesus fits into that critique, and why it is that even the most liberating texts can be used in the most oppressive ways; as well as what's really going on with Romans 13, and why they are passionate about the essential message of the Book of Revelation (despite all the ways it has been used for harm). This is lively, fire-breathing conversation that will challenge your mind, and hopefully renew your soul!
Well this turned into a WHOLE THING! I don’t know quite how to capture the way that Jarrod McKenna sharing from his own experience preaching in Perth, Australia (13 hours ahead of Greencastle, Indiana) and my experience in rural Indiana turned into a stunningly coherent vision—with Jarrod doing a revolutionary riff on three trees of Scripture, and my rediscovery of the story of the widow’s offering in Mark’s gospel as a source of liberation. But boy, you’ve gotta hear it.
We desperately need clarity right now in this deeply Christian work of resistance, but we aren’t going to have it so long as we still have planks in our eyes—and Jarrod beautifully helps us see where the planks are, inviting us into a place where God can renew our vision (for ourselves & others) in a way that makes transformation possible.
We are committed to trying to bring the wisest guides we know to help you navigate this very particular moment--and Dr. Drew G.I. Hart is one of the clearest, most insightful prophetic voices we know! Such a tender, pastoral soul, who speaks with such clarity and fierce prophetic fire. In this conversation, Jonathan and Dr. Hart discuss the role of black church as a resource for engagement and resistance, the unique intersection of anabaptist and black church tradition that Dr. Hart occupies, and the challenge of disentangling faith from toxic political identities. They critique the notion of Christianity as a kind of centrism, over against the radical alternative that is Jesus/the way of Jesus--which must be lived out as public prophetic witness. They also discuss the ways that realistically a kind of prosperity theology is baked into the very bones of America. It's a clear critique, but also ultimately a hopeful, constructive, energizing conversation--without calling us to simply bury our collective heads in the sand.
In this post-election breakdown, Jonathan and Jarrod discuss the highlights the need for prophetic voices, particularly from the Black church, in advocating for social change and justice. They address the challenges of navigating spirituality and activism, the significance of community support, and the necessity of both prayer and action in the face of adversity.
Then Jonathan explores the narrative of the Hebrew prophet Elisha from 2 Kings 6 as a framework to explore themes of fear and divine perspective on this current political moment. He emphasizes the importance of seeing beyond immediate circumstances, recognizing the divine presence in our lives, and understanding that our freedom is interconnected with the freedom of others. The story of Elisha illumines for us the call not to stand in the ambivalent middle, but the vulnerable in-between, revealing the power of self-giving, self-sacrificial love--the kind of love that can liberate both the oppressed and the oppressors.
This is another emergency election edition of the Zeitcast--because I cannot sit on this conversation for five seconds knowing how central immigration is to the choices Americans are making this week--and how central immigration will continue to be long after this week is over. Zeke Hernandez' book The Truth about Immigration is a REVELATION. I wish I could buy one for every single one of you, I wish it were required reading for every person in public life who is providing any commentary around immigration at all.
We have all heard rhetoric about immigrants either as victims in need of our saving or of villains that we are in need of saving from. What if the truth is "that immigrants are net positives contributors to everything that makes a society successful?" The truth is that most of us have vague assumptions based on anecdotal stories we've heard or read about immigrants. But data/facts are not partisan, and this should not ultimately be a partisan issue. What if the story the facts actually tell are that we are actually SAFER with more immigration than with less? It is true that we have a deeply broken immigration system in the U.S., and spoiler alert--neither party on the whole is addressing the foundational issues that underwrite the problem. But how much closer could we get to the truth about such things, if we had the resources to sort fact from fiction?
Perhaps the most buried truth of them all, is that even with real problems around illegal immigration, whether immigrants are legal or illegal they STILL contribute overwhelmingly positively to the U.S. economy, categorically. Professor Hernandez helps us reckon with the empirical data surrounding immigration, reframing immigration as a matter of self-interest, rather than around either fear or charity.
This is a deeply important conversation for every citizen, but especially for people of faith. We wrangle honestly with the tough questions, en route to the truth that on some level we are always circling around--that all hope is local, and the way we can make a difference here ultimately will be made in real life in our real communities with real neighbors. But in order to love our neighbors, surely we must first stop believing lies about them, and bearing false witness against them? I humbly ask that you share this one broadly, and shout it from the housetops if you can.
This conversation is pure exhilaration! Dr. Andrew Newberg is a neuroscientist, the pioneer of "neurotheology," and one of the world’s leading researchers exploring the relationship between neuroscience and spirituality. His research includes taking brain scans of people in prayer, meditation, rituals, and trance states, in an attempt to better understand the nature of religious and spiritual experiences. His books include the recent Sex, God and the Brain, How God Changes the Brain, and Neurotheology: How Science can Enlighten Us About Spirituality.
In this engaging conversation, Dr. Newberg discusses the intricate relationship between brain function, spirituality, and sexuality. He explores how various mental states, including religious experiences and sexual intimacy, activate different areas of the brain. The dialogue delves into Newberg's journey from neuroscience to neurotheology, and the role of rituals and myths in shaping beliefs--emphasizing the need for an integrated approach to understanding spirituality and its impact on human experience.
Along the way, Dr. Newberg and Jonathan Martin explore the connection between sex and speaking in tongues (!), how liturgical practices may be similar to experiences of ecstatic prayer, the vulnerability that can lead us into transformation (and danger), and the evolutionary roots of social hierarchies. The conversation also explores the impact of belief systems on political polarization, and the role of algorithms in shaping our perspectives.
Finally, they reflect on the neurological effects of various spiritual practices, and the importance of finding personal paths to connection and understanding. A revolutionary conversation with one of our great minds--who also turns out to be super warm, engaging, open and curious--we think this is one of our most exciting Zeitcasts yet, and hope it will be as revelatory and wonder-inducing for you, as it has been for us!
During this time that I know is very high stakes and thus can be high anxiety for some of us, I specifically wanted to post a couple of resources that would be good for your SOUL--for those moments when you need a bit of shelter from the storm.
The conversation I just had with Carlos Rodriguez is monumental, and I hope you will watch/listen to that one if you have not already...but he also preached SUCH a clarifying word for our friends at Simplicity Church (highly recommended if you are ever near Edmond, OK), that I know I needed to hear. Hence the title, "clarity, not certainty." What a mantra for the moment we are in!
I especially love it because Carlos speaks not only with great passion, but great humility, taking us on a vulnerable journey with him, rather than calling us up to join him on some kind of mountaintop. He shares his own personal road to identity, family, and belonging, reflecting on his experiences of therapy, and sharing the transformative journey of founding The Happy Givers NGO. It is a brave and beautiful call for action, repentance, and a commitment to serving others, particularly in the context of systemic issues faced by marginalized communities.
What a tremendous human and friend--I hope this sermon speaks to your soul as much as it did mine.
Warmly, Jonathan
During this high intensity, and for many of us, high anxiety moment, I felt like I specifically needed to post some resources this week that might provide a sense of soul, solace and refuge in the midst of all the chaos. To love the world is to engage it for the sake of social change; but you also need to stop for gas--you know?
So this one is an actual bona fide sermon to our wonderful friends at Simplicity Church in Emond, OK; a little break in the format from what we've been doing. It's a sermon from the beautiful and sometimes baffling ancient wisdom book known as Job, one of those universal meta stories that seems to run beneath all the rest of our stories. It's a wild ride--for Job, as it's a wild ride for us to be in these bodies, in this world, in this time and space, being human and being alive/being awake.
Here you will find some tongue in cheek mischief-making dunking on the Book of Proverbs (hey it's great; and I believe it's mysteriously inspired by the Spirit and all the things...and also hot take decisively NOT the "wisest book in the Bible," get out of here with that, LOL! It's a broad critique of how perhaps most of our theology in America is in fact prosperity theology (whether or not you are in or outside of the church). It's a tribute to the late great Gustavo Guterriez. It's a challenge to move beyond the confines of reward/punishment and merit/demerit, to run free into the wide open fields (which also happen to be WILD open fields). As I heard some Irish guy say it one time, "blessings not just for the ones who kneel, luckily."
Sincerely,
Jonathan
r. Andrew Whitehead (author of American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel & Threatens the Church and Taking America Back for God) is America's leading expert on Christian nationalism--so we couldn't think of a better guest to help us put the wildness of this election in a broader context! Andrew and Jonathan explore the complex intersections of Christian nationalism, race, and politics in the current American landscape, the threats posed by authoritarianism, and the potential for changing minds through empathy and storytelling. They also discuss how Christian nationalism predisposes individuals to support dictatorial leaders. This is an absolutely critical conversation to help keep us sane in the days ahead!
You've heard a lot about Puerto Rico lately--what a time to talk our friend Carlos Rodriguez (founder of the Happy Givers NGO and Author of Drop the Stones), on his final ministry trip to America! The gloves are off, the inhibitions are down, and the fire is falling. In this barnburner of a conversation, Carlos and Jonathan explore their parallel journeys within the Pentecostal/charismatic church, to whatever it is they are doing now--how they have grown and shifted theologically, and what it means to go from being the young upstarts, to the generational shift of becoming "elders" themselves.
This is our deepest dive conversation yet into the horrors unfolding in Gaza (from Carlos' unique perspective as a Puerto Rican living in a colony), as they talk about how to support Palestinian Christians/Palestinians in general--while taking seriously the fact that both Jewish and Palestinian people exist on the margins in America. Carlos and Jonathan talk about the narrative of who is most oppressed shifts as the world evolves and changes, and how Christians must shift accordingly. Provocatively in this election season, they talk about how America's choice for President effects some of our friends domestically in profound ways...while the policy options the candidates represent may not appear all that different to some of our friends internationally. This conversation is wide open, unfiltered, and most of all, an undomesticated invitation to follow the Spirit out of a world driven by profit, into community and human connection!
This is a time full of anxiety for many of us...maybe an ideal time to revisit prayer? In this vulnerable, funny, wide open conversation, Jonathan and Savannah talk about their current experience of prayer, the value of liturgy in prayer vs. spontaneity, the role of visuals in prayer, and how they are finding a sense of connection with the divine, now. Jonathan talks about the way ADHD affects the way he communicates to God (and everyone else), and reflects on Savannah's "non-angsty way" of thinking about prayer. They also talk about how perfectly natural it is to simultaneously pray while wondering whether or not any of it is true at all; the moments that ground them again in wonder, and the reason we need the physical embodied presence of real people in our lives, to make the presence of God tangible.
In this conversation, Dr. Jared Stacy and Jonathan Martin explore misinformation, disinformation and white evangelicalism. Dr. Stacy shares his very personal journey of leaving pastoral work in the wake of seeing his own community embrace propaganda and disinformation in the aftermath of January 6th. In his work as a theologian and ethicist, he has been on a long journey to understand the way white evangelicalism has been hijacked by MAGA ideology. They explore questions of race, power and privilege, and the need for ongoing work of discernment in a digital age.
What you are about to see is a wild and sacred thing. Without hyperbole, I truly believe your life is about to change to watch/hear this. The conversation started really happening before we intended to really start recording, so you are dropped right into the thick of it because that is just how it actually happened, no intro. Also you aren't ready...for the HIGHLY UNLIKELY DUET, LOL!
If this moves you to the core as it did me, I hope you will consider sharing this one...I believe in everything that happened/is happening here so hard, I want to go door-to-door with this. Multiple times Russ Taff prefaced something with, “I’ve never told this before…,” & this whole time had THAT energy. The words in my head driving away were “dripping with God.” “Don’t meet your heroes,” you say? How about recording with your hero for 2.5 hours in a revelatory, startling conversation, equal parts laughter & tears?
Fierce & tender + brute force & frailty + Holy Ghost power has always been Russ Taff’s sound. He’s the greatest gospel singer of all-time (it’s not close), precisely because there is a whole story within the sound, terror & ecstatic joy, agony & freedom, death & resurrection—all in one electric current. Now, he tells the stories between the notes.
We talked about how songs like “we will stand” and “praise the Lord” AND the cover from his forthcoming album of The National’s “Demons” (“when I walk into a room I do not light it up…I stay down with my demons”) all come from the same place; & about what it meant to grow up in the home of an alcoholic Pentecostal preacher, born into all that thunder. We talked about addiction & relapse. We talked about the day a pastor dying of cancer, eerily a spitting image of his father, held Russ’ head to his chest, stroked his hair, & spoke the blessing over a weathered son that his father couldn’t give, while he sobbed away the weight of years.
I glimpsed the way he represents other fathers now, literally giving that same blessing now to beaten down children of the church who never imagined they’d get that tenderness, authenticity & affirmation—and was almost crushed by the holiness of it.
You’ll think I’m just talking that talk until you watch/hear this. It’s devastating, annihilating, will take you apart & put you back together again. I’m not telling you this conversation will be a thing; it IS a thing. Bono-like rock & roll swagger & Father Rohr-like humility…I mean come on, it’s Russ freaking Taff.
--Jonathan Martin
Jonathan Martin shares an original piece of short fiction, "God loves monsters." Through the fictional narrative of a boy named Jake, we are provoked to take a look at the monsters we see in the mirror, and the monsters we see in the world. What does it change for us, if God doesn't have an adversarial relationship with the monsters? What would we do with the kind of God who makes monsters into pets...and maybe even, friends?
From Jake's story, you are invited to reflect on your own story, and obscure texts about ancient monsters in the Hebrew Bible. You may find that the spookiest thing about this monster story shared a little before Halloween, is that you might actually find yourself in it.
In this heartfelt episode of the Zeitcast Jonathan and Kingston share thoughts on God, heaven, and the importance of kindness in navigating disagreements. They also talk about the 'sad box' as a place to process hard feelings, and how God touches Kingston sometimes when he is sad.
Jonathan Martin explores the themes of suffering, divine guidance, and the significance of smallness through the lens of the Book of Job. In a world in which so much of our technology tells us "you're really, really big;" the message embedded in nature itself that "you are really, really small" is a liberating word. Sometimes your problems don't get smaller, until you do. While we are assigned infinite worth, destinies don't sit on our shoulders. Ultimately this is an invitation to trust in the goodness of God, and stop having to be in charge...yielding to the voice that tells you, "you don't have to carry it anymore."
In this episode, Jonathan Martin reflects on recent conversations that have deeply impacted him, emphasizing the importance of understanding the nature of evil, the power of faith, and the need to resist fear, with love. He discusses the distinction between the sound of God and the sound of accusation, encouraging listeners to embrace their identity as beloved and to build communities of hope amidst chaos--"an ark of hope."
Because this is the Zeitcast...he does this through recapping his experience of watching the film The First Omen, finding in it a far too on the nose description of the way the Church has capitulated to evil in our time--choosing the way of fear over the way of faith.
It feels impossible to overstate just how strongly we feel about this one. In an especially vulnerable conversation, Lauren Barnett and Jonathan Martin talk death, disinformation, and revival. In the wake of the recent loss of Lauren's mother, we are invited to consider that the stakes of how we discern/commute/transmit information, may ACTUALLY be life and death. This conversation wanders onto very sacred ground...and yet is somehow, really, really funny!?
Lauren shares from her experience of grief, honoring the legacy of her mother, while calling into question the impact of alt media on mental health and spirituality, the emotional toll of civic engagement, and the role of algorithms in creating division--particularly how they affect our elders. Along the way, they talk about Lauren's experience coming up in Jonathan's youth group (better known now as Steph Curry's youth group, ha) and later the church he led; as well as her crucial work with the Expectations Project, the challenges facing public education, and the pervasive influence of misinformation and Christian nationalism.
What more could you ask from one conversation? Seriously, we think to watch/hear this one...is to be altered.
In this conversation, Brian Zahnd and Jonathan Martin explore the intersection of faith, misinformation, and political engagement within Christianity. They discuss the implications of eschatology on Christian belief, and the importance of love and compassion in political discourse. Zahnd emphasizes the need for a more profound understanding of the cross and God's nature, while also addressing the challenges of racism during a volatile election season. The conversation culminates in a reflection on how eschatology shapes the narrative of faith, and the call for Christians to embody joy and love amidst societal challenges. Along the way, they talk about reinterpreting Revelation, their own personal conversion experiences, and rethinking of hell and salvation. Ultimately, they emphasize the importance of scaffolding during/after the deconstruction process, and the need for a deeper experience of faith that transcends destructive dogmas.
This is truly overhearing an intimate conversation between friends. We are especially grateful that Brian gave us an exclusive inside peek to some of the writing he's working on now, that hasn't been shared anywhere else before now!
Reality has never felt stranger, and the response for many of us then is to grasp desperately for something or someone to hold on to. But it is precisely that desire for control, that can lead us to some really dark places.
Today's Zeitcast contrasts different spiritual approaches, advocating for a faith that encourages curiosity and compassion rather than certainty and outrage. We consider the role of knowledge in spirituality, the struggle for certainty in uncertain times, and the paradox of holding on versus letting go. Ultimately, this is an invitation to surrender control and trust in a reality larger than themselves.
What is evil, and how does evil work in the world? “The prince of the power of the air” in the Christian New Testament, “Ha-Satan” (the accuser) in the Hebrew Bible, give us crucial glimpses into the nature of evil. How do we tell the difference between truth & lies, between fact and fiction? OH, and for those of us who are trying to figure out how to escape beliefs and ideas that have been toxic for us-how do we find enough scaffolding to make sure we don’t just now get caught up in something worse?!
We explore the overwhelming nature of misinformation and disinformation in today's society, particularly in the context of the upcoming election. We delve into the concept of evil, drawing connections between ancient texts and modern experiences of self-destruction and identity crises. The discussion highlights the power of accusation and scapegoating, the struggle for self-identity amidst external influences, and the quest for truth in a chaotic world filled with conflicting voices. We also talk about identity, and the journey of deconstruction and reconstruction of faith. Ultimately we advocate for the need for spiritual scaffolding to support personal growth and understanding, ultimately leading to the realization of one's identity as God's beloved.
On this week's four weeks for Friday: the debut of Typecast (!), where I respond to listener questions; a rundown of what I am watching, listening to, and reading this week (including: the new Netflix film It's What's Inside, revisiting Stephen King's Storm of the Century, Coldplay's Moon Music, The Bulwark conversation with Timothy Snyder this week on "the Politics of Impotence," Slow Burn's great new season on "The Rise of Fox News," and a searing new piece in the Atlantic, "Seventy Miles in the Darien Gap," by Cailtin Dickerson. Let me know what you are into this week in the comments!
This week's Typecast is a response to Mike Skinner, who asked me: "from your personal and pastoral experience, what are two or three theological truths that are commonly shared with folks who are struggling to find and hold onto hope that are both overrated and underrated in their power and ability to help and encourage?" Such a great (multi-part) question! I will look forward to reading more of yours!
Who told you the middle was the right place to be? Was it God? Does it feel holy to be a little above the fray, a little detached? It is one thing to see the world from an aerial point of view (like say, we saw in our reflections on Revelation), but another thing to see the world from out the window from a private plane. Today we challenge the notion of "middle ground," advocating instead for a deeper understanding of grace and truth. This is an invitation to recognize one's position of power and shatter the illusion of powerlessness, urging listeners to embrace vulnerability and take action in the prophetic in-between space. Along the way, we talk U2's Bullet the Blue Sky, racially charged rhetoric in the Trump era, faithful politics, the prophet Elisha, and Jonathan's theological mentor, Stanley Hauerwas
This is a very personal journey of faith, exploring themes of judgment, relationships, and sexuality, and ultimately an invitation to trust the transformative power of God's love.
John Wesley preached in fields, so this is in the water where I come from. From a really sacred experience out at the Ames' farm in Fillmore, Indiana for Ethan's Legacy Project, comes a sermon about how we might theologically grap with the heaviest things--divorce, death, and suicide--in light of God revealed in Christ who is always available to the vulnerable. Raw, provocative, and inclusive of everything from abortion to finding life on the other side of dying, this is a sweeping talk...and a tender invitation to allow your own wounds to become a source of healing for the people around you.
It's Friday, and we are live on the Zeicast...let's go! Today: 1) a short new piece 2) The Vice Presidential Debate between Governor Tim Walz and J.D. Vance 3) pop culture corner, featuring two new franchises on HBO/Max--The Penguin and Salem's Lot 4) state of the podcast, and what's coming next--announcing the Typecast!
Even when our traditions may look externally very different, the shape of our journeys of finding faith (and losing...and maybe finding again), are remarkably similar! In this conversation, Will James shares vulnerably about his experience through the Seventh-Day Adventist. They delve deep into the teachings of Ellen White, the nature of truth, the relationship between scientific understanding and belief systems, the significance of the Sabbath, and the impact of parenting on belief systems. They also touch on the evolution of understanding God, the importance of community, and the journey of self-discovery as they navigate their spiritual paths. It's a wild ride, and a very particular account of a faith journey...that we somehow think might yet somehow sound a whole lot like your own.
In this conversation, Amy Hawk and Jonathan Martin discuss disillusionment with evangelicalism, in the context of widespread Trump support. Amy shares her personal spiritual journey, the impact of the quest for political power on faith, and the metaphor of Judas' betrayal as it relates to the church's alignment with Trump. The conversation emphasizes the importance of integrity and truth in faith, and the need for Christians to (in the language of New Testament scripture) "discern the spirits" influencing their beliefs and actions.
Have you been intimidated by the Book of Revelation? Or terrorized or traumatized by it? Does it seem to be within the realm of some sort of strange "expertise" that you either don't feel like you have, or wouldn't want to have given the takes people have on all of this? While not comprehensive, this is my absolute best shot at giving you some handles on how this apocalyptic book functions, what it's about, and how it connects to the world we are living in now. It may challenge you; but hopefully it might also make you feel like you are getting Revelation "back" as the source of hope and healing it was intended to be (albeit a strange comforter at times. We explore the complexities and profound themes of the Book of Revelation, emphasizing its relevance and accessibility. We consider the importance of understanding Revelation through the lens of Jesus Christ as He appears in the gospels, the implications of misinterpretation, and the significance of key symbols and narratives within the text. Ultimately I argue for a perspective on Revelation as a story of hope, healing, and the final triumph of love over violence...a story you are called to participate in. The end of Revelation is the "end" of Scripture, the conclusion of all the other "revelations"--mercy triumphs over judgment.
"Turn or burn." There may be some turns we need to make, but what if even those who turn...still burn?
In this conversation, Jonathan Martin explores the themes of transformation, judgment, and the nature of God through the lens of the Christian gospel. He challenges the notion of 'turn or burn' by emphasizing that everyone will experience a form of burning, which can lead to purification and renewal. Martin discusses the weight of responsibility towards vulnerable individuals, and the healing nature of God's fire. He invites listeners to embrace the transformative journey of faith, recognizing the need for introspection and the acceptance of truth as a path to spiritual growth.
In this episode of the Zeitcast, we explore the art of listening to one's life as a spiritual practice--being present to the everyday moments that shape our existence, and the divine messages that can be found within them. You can learn how to connect your own experiences, both with each other, and to the broader story that is the communion of saints, integrating faith with the richesof culture and community. This conversation culminates in a prayerful invitation to recognize the grace in our lives, and to actively listen to the stories they tell. Takeaways: Listening to your life is essential for spiritual growth. All moments in life are significant and filled with grace. Holiness is about integration and wholeness, not perfection. God communicates through our everyday experiences. The communion of saints provides support and inspiration. Personal experiences shape our understanding of the divine. We have the authority to interpret our own lives. Listening to our lives can reveal deeper truths. Finding joy and playfulness in our spiritual practices is important.
Whether you are new to prayer, or trying to figure out where prayer fits into your life now… here are some basic practices that work for me. Let’s not just talk about it…let’s pray!
Welcome to the very first Zeitcast live: daily reflections! the questions we are afraid to ask, the questions we don't ask simply because we are no longer curious; J.D. Vance, Haitian immigrants, and Springfield, OH; NC Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, and a little reflection on my time at The Atlantic Fest, a remarkable show with our friend Brittney Spencer...and a very unexpected Kings of Leon concert! #thezeitcast #theology #spirituality #christianity #christian #Jesus #jdvance #trump #donaldtrump #trumpism #election2024 #brittneyspencer #markrobinson #kingsofleon #TAF24
Savannah Locke joins Jonathan for a vulnerable and hilarious conversation, drawing insights from Dietrich Bonhoeffer's "After 10 Years," and discuss how faith demands that we trust others and work towards a better future. (Also, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Perry Stone, and Eric Metaxas may or may not catch some strays) We explore the challenge of navigating contrasting communities and the importance of seeing the goodness in people despite political differences. There are some really poignant moments here, from Savannah talking about forgiving Donald Trump, to her experience of witnessing a suicide--illuminating the way that proximity to death and evil, clarifies and simplifies things. Ultimately, this is an invitation to build bridges to the future, whether or not we get to the future ourselves, as call to Christian witness (but it's also just a really, really good time!).
In this conversation, Jonathan and Nicole talk about the current election cycle, Kamala Harris, JD Vance, and childless cat ladies! They explore themes of political strategy, hope and joy, disinformation, anti-intellectualism, and the co-opting of religious groups. Ultimately, the conversation explores the dangers of Christian nationalism and the need for followers of Jesus to engage responsibly in the world. They emphasize the need for a deeper grounding in the way of Jesus, which is characterized by self-sacrifice, love, and humility--encouraging Christians to resist the culture war mentality, and instead focus on loving their neighbors and advocating for the vulnerable.
kamalaharris #jdvance #donaldtrump #election2024 #theology #spirituality #christianity #christian #fascism #christiannationalism #republican #democrat #progressivechristian #progressivechristianity
Exploring fear, punishment, and the concept of hell faith and moral development. Also the connection between rock and roll and Pentecostal worship, highlighting the shared energy and ecstasy…and the lives of Jerry Lee Lewis and Jimmy Swaggart—two famous cousins who both grappled with “hellfire” in their own ways. How do fear-based beliefs contribute to destructive behavior, and affect moral development and the ability to love others. Basically another day in the office 🤣 #theology #christianity #spirituality #jerryleelewis #jimmyswaggart #hell #judgement #eschatology #pentecostal #jesus
A word to the spiritual “undecideds.” It’s confusing to know how to navigate conflicting narratives around religion, eschatology, antisemitism, and the horror that’s happening to our Palestinian siblings. What might it look like to clear your head of all the scripts that tell you how the world must become, so you actually begin to take responsibility for the world you are helping to create? #israel #palestine #theology #eschatology #christianity #jesus #spirituality #thezeitcast #margaretgaines #interfaith #pentecostal #pentecostaltheology
As DePauw’s historic Mendenhall lecture comes from within the Christian tradition, we believe this is a crucial time for faith communities to reflect critically about how theology shapes the way we actually live in the world. This one-night symposium will explore the phenomenon of Christian nationalism, particularly in American history and culture. Some of the questions we will consider include: How is Christian nationalism defined and invoked in our public discourse? What is the role of Christian nationalism in public life and polity right now (deep into an election year)? Is Christian nationalism primarily a theological identity, or a political one? How does Christian nationalism challenge the ideal of pluralistic democracy? How are people drawn to Christian nationalism, and how do those who are not talk across the divide? How do questions of race and ethnicity factor into the conversation? Andre Henry is an award-winning singer-songwriter, the bestselling author of All the White Friends I Couldn’t Keep, a trusted global voice on nonviolent struggle for social progress, a creative truthteller, and a “tomorrow-maker.” Brian Zahnd is the founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri; and the author of eleven books, including Sinners In the Hands of a Loving God, When Everything’s on Fire, and The Wood Between the Worlds. Pamela Cooper-White, MDiv, PhD, LCPC is the Christiane Brooks Johnson Professor Emerita of Psychology and Religion and Dean Emerita, Union Theological Seminary, New York, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of New York, and a licensed psychotherapist. She is an award-winning author, most recently of The Psychology of Christian Nationalism: Why People Are Drawn In and How to Talk Across the Divide. Andrew L. Whitehead, PhD, is an Associate Professor of Sociology and Director of the Association of Religion Data Archives at the Center for the Study of Religion and American Culture at IUPUI, and one of the foremost scholars of Christian nationalism in the United States. He is the author of American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel and Threatens the Church, and lead author of Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States—along with Samuel Perry. is an associate professor of sociology and co-director of the Association of Religion Data Archives.
A cheeky title...a life-changing conversation, between an Imam and a Pastor on virtually everything that matters.
I'll tell you what I truly do believe: absolutely everything around you and in you can change, in just 40 days.
At the intersection of love and death...the formal start of our Lenten series, "you can do anything for 40 days."
It's not just showing us about how Jesus the man is divine...this is the revelation for us of what it is to be human.
An invitation to come out of the storm, into the rhythms that sustain your soul...into a deeper, more authentic way of living.
Ben Katt discusses his beautiful new book, 'The Way Home.' We talk about his experiences of mystical moments, the importance of paying attention to them, and the universal aspects of the journey to wholeness--including the excruciating but necessary path of death and resurrection.
Instantly one of our favorite all-time podcasts, our daughter Kaitlyn comes on for a vulnerable, far-reaching conversation about everything from pageants to the highs and lows of her experience with Christian school in Oklahoma, her passion for women's incarceration issues, and navigating what to believe now. We talk about how fear never ultimately motivates us to meaningful change, but how scary it is to rebuild your life and faith with a new engine when fear is no longer the primary driver.
One of our all-time favorite Zeitcast guests, Dr. C.E.W. Green wrote the foreword to The Book of Waiting: Reflections on Advent & Christmas. His perspective and insight not only helped shape the book in final form, here he once again illuminates something new about virtually everything that matters!
In this conversation, Jonathan and Nicole discuss the inspiration behind Jonathan's book on Advent and the timing of its release. They explore the importance of waiting and longing, and how to navigate cynicism and despair. They also discuss finding God in small moments and witnessing holiness in the midst of chaos. The conversation highlights the personal and universal nature of Advent and the power of real relationships, surrender and resistance, and the sound of God. He emphasizes the importance of bearing witness, welcoming the judgment of God, and discerning when to say yes or no. Overall, the conversation explores the intersection of personal and global longing, the significance of Advent practices, and the liberation that comes from embracing truth and responsibility. We discuss embracing regret and growth, reflecting on past hurts, moving forward and living new life, bringing healing and freedom, the liberating power of truth, living with fierce humility, having nothing to hide or defend, the fierceness and tenderness of saints, and their first sit-down as a couple.TakeawaysThe Christian story is meant to pull all our levers, connecting us to a story that is bigger, older, and more future-oriented than ourselves.There is a collective waiting and longing for the restoration and reconciliation of all things, both on a large scale and in our personal lives.Advent calls us to consecrate the time of waiting and longing, recognizing it as a sacrament and an opportunity for reconciliation in broken relationships.The longing for justice in the world and the longing for reconciliation in personal relationships are interconnected and should not be abandoned or prioritized over one another.The sound of God is one of liberation, tenderness, and freedom, and it transcends the harsh, constrictive, and coercive voices that claim to speak for God. Regret is a natural part of life, and it's important to acknowledge and learn from it.Reflecting on past hurts and the harm we may have caused others is necessary for growth and healing.Moving forward and living new life requires honest self-reflection and dealing with our own issues.Bringing healing and freedom to others requires a combination of fierce honesty and humility.The liberating power of truth can set us free and create a context for growth and transformation.Living with fierce humility means being open to feedback and constantly seeking truth.Having nothing to hide or defend allows for a more authentic and beautiful way of living.The saints embody both fierceness and tenderness, and they serve as role models for living a truthful and humble life.As a couple, Jonathan and his wife have a unique dynamic of learning from each other and asking questions.This conversation is just the beginning of many more discussions to come.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Background03:36 The Inspiration Behind the Book06:36 Publishing the Book10:31 The Timing of the Book Release13:05 The Importance of Waiting and Longing16:17 The Presence of God in the Midst of Waiting18:18 Navigating Cynicism and Despair20:15 The Tension of Advent21:38 Viewing Waiting and Longing as Sacrament25:35 Finding God in Small Moments28:13 Navigating Tensions in Communities30:06 Witnessing Holiness in the Midst of Chaos36:16 The Power of the Table39:58 The Importance of Real Relationships46:59 The Personal and Universal Nature of Advent49:37 Revelation Language and Longing50:18 Waiting and Longing for Restoration51:10 Longing for Reconciliation in Relationships52:02 The Intersection of Personal and Global Longing53:01 Advent as a Time for Naming the Unnameable53:29 Advent as a Space for Waiting and Longing54:02 Discovering Advent Practices54:57 The Importance of Waiting and Longing55:25 The Command to Wait and Tarry56:06 The Danger of Focusing on the Past56:34 Reliving and Reenacting the Story57:44 Intentional Waiting and Longing58:11 Witness and the Power of Smallness58:37 The Sound of God01:00:53 Surrender and Resistance01:02:10 Bearing Witness and Authenticity01:03:07 The Judgment of God01:03:53 Welcoming the Judgment of God01:05:48 Discerning When to Say Yes or No01:11:56 The Sound of God01:19:28 The Sound of God and Self-Righteousness01:21:07 Welcoming the Judgment of God01:23:54 Saying Yes to Judgment and Truth01:27:00 Personal Journey and Marriage01:32:26 Life in Two Places and Protecting Loved Ones01:38:01 Living with Depth and Liberation01:40:12 Embracing Regret and Growth01:41:11 Reflecting on Past Hurts01:42:00 Moving Forward and Living New Life01:43:19 Bringing Healing and Freedom01:44:59 The Liberating Power of Truth01:46:36 Living with Fierce Humility01:47:32 Nothing to Hide or Defend01:49:03 The Fierceness and Tenderness of Saints01:50:26 First Sit-Down as a Couple01:51:38 Asking Questions and Learning
“The world is the Lord’s, and everything in it.” “For God so loved the world…” “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.” So…which is it? A sermon on interpretation, that could open up how you see “the world” differently. #theology #spirituality #christianity #jesus #theworld #bible #scripture #interpretationShow less
What communion is, why it matters, who it is for...who is qualified for it. This is everything I most deeply believe about the mystery of the table, and why I still believe this is the invitation that changes everything.
How do we know the voice of God, apart from all the other voices? Artificial intelligence can duplicate our speech patterns where those even who know us the best wouldn’t be able to distinguish the sound. Yet Jesus says, “my sheep know my voice.”
What in your life has ever worked out exactly the way that you've planned it? On this seven mile journey, maybe a seven day journey, or maybe it feels like you start this road all over again every seven minutes...we explore the pattern of the mystery that sustains us.
An Easter sermon for people who feel like they have carried your Jesus off. Like Eli with Hannah in the First Testament, "the priests" may have seen your grief as disruption, intoxication, disorderliness. But Jesus sees your weeping for what it is.
Y’all know how it is…sometimes you just get so wound up you have to go to preach at a graveyard after midnight! Perfectly normal behavior. My soul was seriously so agitated and electrified by the witness of Justin Jones & Justin Pearson last night, I got dressed and preached a Good Friday sermon to a captive audience at Brick Chapel Cemetery. If y’all don’t amen me, the owls and wild dogs already did.
I’m not trying to do something gimmicky or clever. Where I come from when you hear good preaching, you stand up and let the preacher know they are blessing you. Yesterday we all got to bear witness. I don’t claim to be a great preacher, but I know it when I hear it.
Bonus: on the road to Emmaus, the not yet revealed resurrected One explained how his death fit into “what the prophets had spoken.” I know we have a crisis of authority, where many of you don’t know who to believe/what voices to trust. My philosophy here is simple: I listen to the what the prophets have spoken. I’m not listening to the pundits. I’m not listening to the commentators. I’m listening to the prophets.
Hear me out: America has one primary prophetic tradition that has consistently provided a counter witness capable of transforming culture. I’m not saying it’s the only one. It’s the primary one-one that continues to speak a word that can wake the dead. It starts with “black” and ends with “church.” I’m not interested in philosophy lectures from Jordan Peterson when the strategist who shaped MLK Rev. Jim Lawson is still alive. I’m not interested in following that rabbit hole of videos out of morbid curiosity so long as there’s a Cornel West talk or @otismossiii sermon I haven’t heard. I wish 60 Minutes spent more time on Fannie Lou Hamer than Marjorie Taylor Greene.
I know the sound of God when I hear it, and I listen when I hear that sound. I’ve heard your guy, and they didn’t speak a word that made dry bones dance. The difference between these prophets and the others is that when they all show up on Mt. Carmel and they cry out—fire falls.
On this Maundy Thursday Zeitcast, we talk about why it matters to believe that the character of the God who washed the feet of the disciples is the same as the God who died on the cross--and how what we believe about the death of Jesus matters for how we live.
Special guest Mimi Edou joins us to talk about Ramadan, fasting, plus reflections from Jonathan on interfaith work, and Shusaku Endo's Silence!
I don’t know quite what to tell you about this, since we had not felt anything or said anything quite like what we felt and said before. What I can say, is that the story God is telling about you, may be very different from the story they tell about you. And if they can’t tell the truth about the woman in John 4, WELL…also: hear us freak out at our real-time encouragement from John P. Kee :)
Whether it's behind the bar at The Whisk or behind the pulpit, if the right Reverend Joel Everson is pouring...trust me, it's only going to be the good stuff!!! My instant favorite sermon on the woman at the well, this Women's History Month.
If you find yourself in a place of "deep darkness," a place so dark not even "your word is a light unto my feet"...if you feel far from home, don't know how to get back, don't know where home is, feel trapped inside the nightmare you can't wake up from...this one is for you.
MEAAAANNN...by God, GENE!!! On this Zeitcast, we are talking about how people can think they are culture-free, but everybody else is shaped by "the culture," inglorious ways of defining the "glory of God," how it's possible to take Revelation literally but not the Sermon on the Mount (!?), the relationship between Jesus and Paul, "the world," "the flesh," and Shusaku Endo's epic novel, Silence. WOOOOO!!!
Do you speak--to any size crowd, behind a podium, or behind a screen? Our daughter Kaitlyn is competing for Miss Teen Oklahoma, so I've been talking to her about speaking--which got me thinking more broadly about the handful of things I most deeply believe about public speaking: as art, as magic, as an opportunity to break something human inside of someone else. Whatever kind of speaking you do or are interested in doing, I hope you find something helpful here! Why for me it's all about relaxing into the moment, avoiding over-hyping yourself to the point of over-shooting the landing, why being hyper aware of your surroundings generally trumps even great content, being vulnerable without over-sharing, and my current mantra: VARY YOUR TONE!
We can't speak the truth about faith, without speaking the truth about our bodies--without speaking the truth about our trauma. Whether you are dealing with your own trauma or someone else's (chances are pretty high you are dealing with both!), this episode will hopefully speak the language of your spirit.
Does theology exist to set boundaries and parameters for how we think/speak about God--or blow them up?
What is the difference between finding Jesus, losing religion, finding crystals or tarot cards, or coming into money? Apparently sometimes...not all that much.
It does seem like a bit of missed opportunity not to just call this "a rabbi, an imam, and two pastors walk into a bar," even though we weren't in a bar! I am so excited to introduce you to my wonderful spiritual friends and colleagues, and I love the vulnerability at the heart of this conversation--where we all talk about something unique our tradition brings to the table...but also something we have struggled with within our own respective traditions!
Okay maybe not all that hot, but spicy for me?! Why I think Christians oftentimes overstate the case in making the first testament sound incomplete, when in fact everything we need (from mercy and justice to death and resurrection) was all THERE even before Jesus…and also how strange it is to hear people wrangle with the “problematic” things in the Bible—who love Game of Thrones? It’s all in how you read, and it is illiteracy perhaps rather than any texts that is ultimately killing us.
Jonathan Puddle and I co-interviewed Brad Jersak about his latest book, Out of the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction. We reflected on the historical precedence of faith deconstruction, observing that it is both a current move of God in our time as well as an ancient tradition of idol smashing. We discussed the harm we can do to others in our deconstruction journey, and how deconstruction can liberate from toxicity while also being incredibly painful and destabilizing. We talk about the importance of not replacing one form of fundamentalism with another, and moving from alienation to communion. Brad left us with a ton of practical tools on how you can connect with God and feel God’s love, right now, wherever and whoever you are.
The band is back together again, y'all! Our favorite theologian here at the Zeitcast has a new book out for Lent, and it's a wonderful companion for this and any other season. Join us on the Lenten journey!
a more intimate conversation between friends about how the relationship between faith and action
Can you hear the sound of God? We sure did at the historic Mendenhall lecture, in which Rev. CeCe Jones Davis and Antoinette Jones tell the story not only of Julius Jones, but a universal story--the Christ story. From Gobin UMC, and the campus of DePauw University
In this special two-part Zeitcast from the campus of DePauw University and Gobin United Methodist Church, part one of two probing, powerful lectures on the kind of faith that is literally dealing death in America--and the kind of faith that is creating resistance. With Otis Moss III and Shane Claiborne
On this Martin Luther King Day, we revisit one of our favorite conversations with one of America’s most needed prophetic voices—Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III, pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, who just released a brand new book which we highly recommend—Dancing in the Darkness: Spiritual Lessons for Turbulent Times. He is a preacher, poet, activist, author and filmmaker with an eye toward justice and equality, as evidenced through the gospel of Jesus Christ. Dr. Moss preaches a theology of liberation rooted in a Black Spirituality of love and justice. His passion for African American culture and history combined with a deep appreciation for jazz and hip hop, have culminated in a unique message of hope and healing through a jazz narrative on American democracy. Dr. Moss was identified by the Baylor University George W. Truett Theological Seminary as one of the 12 most effective preachers in the English language in 2018.
For Yom Kippur, experience the first of an all-new iteration of the Zeitcast that will speak to anybody who has left one place/sense of identity, but doesn’t know who or what they are becoming yet…featuring a wise guide you need to know, Rabbi Sandy Eisenberg Sasso! #yomkippur
depauwuniversity #spirituality
Therapist/spiritual director Tony Caldwell helps us navigate the complex soul space, of when and why we have to leave certain spaces, when the story/script we have been given becomes too constricting.
Live from the Table OKC, passing along a treasure I received from a wise guide in my life, Dr. Rickie Moore--a word that "you are closer than you think."
On the preachiest podcast ever...if you "have no choice," then "choosing" God is never truly possible.
The only road you’ve got, is the road you’re on now. So whether you’re a word of faither naming it & claiming it, or a new ager making all the right affirmations, denial is only going to take you so far. The holy path, the sacred path, doesn’t entail pretending, but rather attending to where you actually are.
theroadawayfromgod is out today, wherever books are sold!
Okay so maybe you didn't exactly ask me for a "master class" on preaching, but if I was asked to do one...and only had about an hour to do it...this is everything I would say. And of course I would take an extra ten minutes, because I am, in fact, a preacher.
Vulnerability! Social commentary! Wild non-expert riffing! All the things to love or hate about this podcast, winding around to reflection on ADHD and Christian spirituality.
Recorded immediately after the shooting at a hospital in Tulsa, OK tonight. The gods that we worship are "free" in all the wrong ways--and unfortunately when we believe in a deity that does whatever they want, we tend to "go and do likewise." What if this idea of freedom isn't the whole story, and these questions about "rights" aren't the best questions? "In New York freedom looks like/too many choices."--U2
A provocative, heartfelt talk on gun violence and idolatry, and how progressive culture is unable to give a thoroughgoing account of evil. Also, maybe the clearest example ever of JUST HOW NICHE this podcast really is!
Can you imagine what it would be like to try to preach some kind of sermon the morning after you get married? Well this is what it sounds like when I do it. A very vulnerable, tender, real life resurrection story...as the road continues, through the city beneath the sea!
Leaving home isn't easy. In this deeply personal talk, Jonathan delves into the age-old question: CAN you ever really come home again? The start of the Road Away from God book tour, with our good friend Brian Zahnd, from St. Joseph, MO.
how God doesn't fill our "need" for certainty, how God's response to our doubt isn't to overwhelm our senses so that there is no alternative but to believe, the crucifixion of Jack Sparrow and Iron Man, how Scripture de-stabilizes us in a way that makes trust necessary rather than making us sure.
Jonathan's Dad makes his long-awaited first appearance on the Zeitcast...on his 76th birthday!!! We talk about how he's changed, what he would do differently, and what it looks like to love and be loved in relationship with people who don't see the world the same way we do.
Lent is not a demand for hungry people to go more hungry, or lonely people to become more isolated. It’s an invitation to make room, where we are a little too full. There are some things we cannot see, some things we cannot hear, some things we will not consider—until we are hungry. What would it mean for you to not live in denial of the hunger, but follow it wherever the hunger might lead you? That is the invitation of Lent.
With a title that descriptive, what more is there to know here?! 🤣 Prophecy, eschatology, politics, the end of days, and a really authentic talk of faith and spirituality from the inside...this is all of those things. It's a crazy time in the world, and thus a crazy time in ourselves.
Follow Cece Jones-Davis at www.cecejonesdavis.com and @cecejonesdavis on IG, FB and Twitter.
Recommended reading by Cece:
Red Lip Theology: For Church Girls Who've Considered Tithing to the Beauty Supply Store When Sunday Morning Isn't Enough by Candice Marie Benbow-https://www.amazon.com/dp/059323846X/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_ZB90YNYJ5ZKZ6GWCTQ5M
Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World--and How to Repair It All by Lisa Sharon Harper-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1587435276/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_dl_Q3J351FJWP4VFZPC0A81
Find Seasons 1-2 of The Zeitcast on Apple, Spotify, or any of your favorite podcasts platforms.
The Zeitcast in Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuadudley/2019/08/28/new-daily-podcast-the-zeitcast-explores-the-intersection-between-faith-and-culture/?sh=2703956e2a64
We have no paid sponsors or affiliates and are so grateful to our supporters on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/sonofapreacherman/
Website/blog- http://www.jonathanmartinwords.com/Instagram-https.//instagram.com/jonathanamartin
The Zeitcast on Instagram- https.//instagram.com/thezeitcast
Twitter- https://twitter.com/theboyonthebike
Pre-order my new book, The Road Away From God: How Love Finds Us Even as We Walk Away https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540902161/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_ZC4CPC0FG41DKHW13ETV
I'll be in a city near you this spring for The Road Away from God book tour! Contact me via email for bookings/signings, or visit my website.
WHO AM I:
I’m Jonathan, a son of a preacher man from the South now living in Oklahoma. My personality tends to match my frame, which is to say I feel everything big—which you hear in how I talk about spirituality, books, bourbon, basketball, or my not-so-big Havanese dog Stella. I currently share my life and loves through the Zeitcast, and with my community at The Table OKC. I’ve written a few books: The Road Away from God, How to Survive a Shipwreck, & Prototype. If you would like to help me carve out space for vulnerable, soulful conversations about how faith intersects with everything else…come along.
GET IN TOUCH:
I'd love to chat with you! The best way to get a response is to email me at jonathan@thezeticast.com. If you don't hear back, email nicole@thezeticast.com and she'll give me a friendly nudge.
***Please rate, review, subscribe, and share! It really helps us in the algorithms as we want to keep putting out regular content for you. I so appreciate you all!
In this episode with Will James, we talk about that one time I met Kobe Bryant at the White House (well, and Samuel L. Jackson!), our desire to see LeBron & the Lakers pull it together for one more chip—especially with Russ, trouble in Brooklyn with the Nets…and the very real possibility of a Ben Simmons/James Harden trade! Yes, Zeitcast hot takes, finally!!! Also, enjoying some delicious Barrell Seagrass.
Our friend Will James drops by to talk about the Joe Rogan/Spotify controversy, why black history isn' slavery, and have some Rossville Union Barrel Proof Rye!
According to Jeremiah, the prophetic task is to “pluck up & pull down, destroy & overthrow, to build & plant"--so there’s evidently a lot of destructive work that has to happen to make space for something new! “Tearing down & plucking up” isn’t just being “negative,” especially when you are creating space for new life to bloom. But how do we do this, without being swept up into the mob religion that is simply cynicism & suspicion?
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode of the Zeitcast features Matthew Paul Turner co-author of the recent book What is God Like. Here’s a note from Jonathan. “I can’t tell you what a soul-stirring, hope-building, heart-rending conversation I had with William Paul Turner focusing in on this was new book with the late @rachelheldevans is a gift that people of any & every age need, & I cannot recommend it highly enough. Thank you for this exquisite book and conversation—I am so much richer for them both.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode features Jonathan’s sermon, On blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
This sober text haunted me much of my life. What would it mean to commit the unpardonable sin? What could I do that would be so bad that not even God would forgive it? Now I’m convinced that this text is even more haunting than ever, & it does even strike a kind of fear in me—but not in the way it used to. How can we keep from becoming the kinds of people who “saw off the very branch on which we are sitting?”
When people are seen as being too inclusive and expansive in proclaiming God’s love, they are often accused of having it upside down—of calling evil good. But in this passage, it’s opposite of that: people see clear goodness, kindness, and beauty, and still label it evil. Why is it so dangerous to call good, evil? Who puts their own soul in danger—the ones who sees no limit to the mercy of God, or the one who denies the image of God in their neighbor? Controversially, we dare to claim that the truest and deepest danger is not in who we exclude. And that whatever harm we might do in keeping our people from the community of God (and attempt to do what cannot be done—keep them them from the One who inaugurated this new community), is not nearly as great as the harm we do to ourselves when we refuse to recognize the goodness in plain sight in front of us.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a sermon given by Jonathan at the Table OKC service on Trinity Sunday. This profound message delivered on one of Jonathans favorite days in the Traditional Church Calendar addresses the beauty of building something. The God revealed as Trinity is always creating something new. Jonathan centers on the question, “If joining in this divine flow means building something, what are you being called to build?”
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Kurt Willems. Kurt Kurt Willems (MDiv, MA) is the founding pastor of Pangea Church. Also a writer, blogger, podcaster and speaker, he maintains the resource website Theology Curator, which is also the name of the podcast he hosts (formerly called, The Paulcast). Kurt is passionate about taking dense ideas and communicating them in ways that are empowering for people in all walks of life. He holds a master of divinity degree from Fresno Pacific Biblical Seminary and a master's degree in comparative religion from the University of Washington. His wife, Lauren, is a special education teacher. They have two young daughters.
In the episode Jonathan and Kurt spend time discussing Kurt’s book, Echoing Hope: How the Humanity of Jesus Redeems our Pain, which Jonathan endorsed.
This is a wonderful conversation focusing on reclaiming a robust understating of the humanity of Jesus and how that can inform us particularly during challenging times.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In a culture of perpetual outrage, the story of Jesus cleansing the temple is a provocative one in multiple directions. How do we discern what is and what is not worth being outraged over? What does the passion/"anger" of God look like, and when is anger justified? Is God's anger ever violent? Is it our job to "tone police" anybody else's anger? And when we see the heat of God over injustice in a text like this one, should it matter that we are, in fact, well...not Jesus?
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
The episode features a sermon given by Jonathan at The Table OKC. In this message Jonathan invites us to trust the spirit and go on this lenten journey- knowing that if the spirit is leading it will always be headed toward resurrection.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode is taken from the first Table OKC Sunday celebration of black history month of 2021. Cece Jones Davis and Jonathan share in a fascinating, provocative conversation on black identity and Christian identity... featuring a devastating reading of James Baldwin by Table leader and friend Will James. We celebrate black history month liturgically not just to honor folks in our own community, but because the Jesus story & the Christian story itself is not intelligible apart from the black story.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode features a beautiful conversation with Fr. James Martin. Fr. Martin is a Jesuit priest, spiritual director and New York Times best selling artist.
In this conversation Jonathan and Fr. Martin discuss his new book, Learning To Pray- A Guide For Everyone. He and Jonathan speak about misconceptions regarding prayer and why prayer can seem so daunting.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode is taken from the recent Table OKC Sunday service and features Jonathan as he shares the regarding the Lectionary Gospel text.
In this message Jonathan proclaims the power of Love as a libertative force causing those who have been stifled, restricted, oppressed, or hindered to be free to find their voice! This message includes an incredible prayer near the conclusion of the episode modeled after Jesus invitation to the man in the Gospel story to be set free.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
We’re sharing this episode Jonathan recorded with our great friends at Inverse podcast. They spend some time discussing the inauguration- what it means for the US and the rest of the world as we continue to focus on following in the way of Jesus.
This episode is taken from The Table OKC Sunday service honoring Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and features Jonathan as he shares the beautiful story of Samuel from the Jewish text.
In this message Jonathan shows the through line of the prophets- connecting the voice of God that spoke to the prophet Samuel, to the calling of Dr. King as a prophet and preacher to America, to us. As insignificant as we might feel, that same Voice is still speaking and inviting us to respond today.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode is taken from Jonathan message given on IG Live, January 6th, 2021.
Jonathan shares a heartfelt message regarding the truth of the Gospel and the reality of something else masquerading as gospel, american folk religion. Jonathan speaks with spirit driven clarity, naming the dangers of white american evangelicalism, while inviting us into something deeper, richer, wider, and higher, the way of Jesus.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode is taken from The Table OKC service and features Jonathan he shares the Lectionary text from the Gospel of Luke.
This sermon felt so incredibly special that we knew we needed to share it as soon as possible.
In this message Jonathan walks us through the beauty of Mary’s story as found in Luke’s Gospel. Within it we find the depth and beauty of trust. Jonathan shares powerfully regarding the true meaning of submission, breaking it away from the toxicity many of us have seen and experienced, as gives an invitation to surrender as a form of resistance.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s special episode features portions of the worship service from The Table OKC. The Table is joined by dear friend Brittney Spencer. Brittney is an artist, psalmist, and songwriter based in Nashville Tn. Her work with the Common Hymnal Family has brought much due attention to her incredible songwriting gift.
In this episode Brittney discusses her approach to songwriting, theology, and shares a few of her songs including,”God Is Not Abusive” and “Sorrys Don’t Work No More”.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with return guest and close friend of the Zeitcast, Cece Jones Davis.
Cece is a singer, reverend, activist, and advocate for social change. Many of you know her through her advocacy work on the Justice for Julius campaign.
In this conversation Jonathan and Cece have a post election discussion, including where does the American Church go from here?
This is a powerful conversation and one we know will speak to many of the things we are all feeling right now.
Please take time to get involved in the Justice for Julius campaign. Your voice matters!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Jarrod McKenna that initially aired on Instagram live and was just TOO GOOD to not share with the Zeitcast family.
Most of you are familiar with our good friend Jarrod. He is the co-host of Inverse Podcast, a preacher, peace activist, and close personal friend of Jonathan’s.
They were having a chat and decided to give us a peek into their discussion around the recent US election and the events that have followed.
The conversation was absolutely full of fire in the way we have grown to expect when these two get together.
We know you will enjoy it! And if you haven’t yet, please make sure to go subscribe to Inverse Podcast with Jarrod McKenna and Dr. Drew Hart.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today we’re sharing a conversation with close friend and return guest, Stephanie Tait. In this episode Jonathan and Stephanie discuss social media, finding healthy boundaries to care for your soul and what it means to no be defined by what you produce.
Stephanie is a writer and speaker serving at the crossroads of joy & pain. She is a regular guest on the Zeitcast, always bringing clarity, vulnerability, and grace in these difficult moments.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode is a special pre-election bonus!
In this conversation, taken from a Sunday morning sermon, Jonathan and Joel discuss the Lectionary Gospel text from the Gospel of Matthew; diving into the implications for how we order our life, our community, and our world.
This sermon felt very special and we immediately knew we needed to get it into your hands as soon as possible!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features our friend, Karla Mendoza.
In this conversation, taken from Instagram Live, Karla shares her experience as an undocumented immigrant to the United States, what it has meant to be a DACA recipient in white evangelical spaces, and navigating the spiritual trauma she has endured.
We encourage you to follow Karla on social media and support her much needed work.
This is a special conversation full of gut wrentching vulnerability, difficult truths, and unabashed hope. We know it will resinate with the Zeitcast community.
Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/sonofapreacherman/
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Jarrod McKenna that initially aired on Instagram live and was just TOO GOOD to not share with the Zeitcast family.
Most of you are familiar with our good friend Jarrod. He is the co-host of Inverse Podcast, a preacher, peace activist, and close personal friend of Jonathan’s. One night while discussing a recent interview given by Rick Joyner, the leader of Morning Star Ministries, Jonathan and Jarrod caught fire. They decided to go live on Instagram to share some thoughts regarding the dangerous nature of Joyner’s statement, as well as give an invitation to what a Jesus centered ethic might look like in this particular context.
The conversation was absolutely teeming with life and the fire that often happens when these two get together.
We know you will enjoy it! And if you haven’t yet, please make sure to go subscribe to Inverse Podcast with Jarrod McKenna and Dr. Drew Hart.
Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/sonofapreacherman/
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation recorded around a table, among friends. During Jonathan’s visit to Indiana we had the opportunity chat about MANY things. We decided to turn on a mic and share a conversation with our friends, The Zeitcast Community! This discussion felt really special.
In the episode we discuss the need for intentional refilling practices particularly when we feel so disconnected from our faith community.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode of The Zeitcast features part 2 of our conversation with our friend, Ally Henny. Ally is a writer and speaker who centers on race, racial reconciliation, culture, and identity.
In part 2 of our conversation with Ally, we discuss the role of the Black Witness of the Church. Ally tells the story of her journey within the American Christian tradition and we briefly dive into Ally’s take on Kanye for President.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In today’s episode of The Zeitcast we sit down with our friend, Ally Henny. Ally is a writer and speaker who centers on race, racial reconciliation, culture, and identity.
In part 1 of our conversation with Ally, we discuss the role of the Black Witness of the Church. Ally gives her perspective on police brutality and systemic racism in America including why she calls this “the re-mix.” And we talk about how we care for our souls in a social media age.
Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/sonofapreacherman/
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Jonathan and Joel taken from a special service celebrating the 60th anniversary of Dr. King’s visit to Gobin Memorial United Methodist Church in Greencastle Indiana.
Jonathan was invited to share at this event to commemorate the gathering of the school of the prophets led by Dr. King in 1960. We discuss the importance of this event and the need for prophetic voices in this moment.
Below is the link to Dr. King’s sermon recorded on September 5, 1960.
https://youtu.be/U-An0Muqlg4
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
This episode is taken from The Table OKC service and features Jonathan and Joel as they discuss the Lectionary text from the Epistles, Romans 13.
This sermon felt so incredibly special that we knew we needed to share it as soon as possible.
In this conversation we discuss the implication of the greatest commandment, love your neighbor as yourself, and the negative ramification of the rising pushback on this posture and priority of love.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza.
Dr. Robyn is an activist-scholar, and travels the country doing activist theology, while continuing to write for both the academy and the public square. Whether speaking to faith communities, universities, or communities, writing for HuffPost or Religion Dispatches, Dr. Robyn uses tools learned in both academy and activism to stand in the hybrid space of faith communities, academy, and movements for justice curating activist scholarship with deep intention of bridging with difference.
In this conversation Dr. Robyn and shares regarding their book Activist Theology and the incredible ways that this perspective frames a robust theology lived out in real life. This is a way of doing theology that is itself active and transformative.
We know you will love this beautiful conversation.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a sermon taken from the Table OKC’s IG Live service. In this message Jonathan speaks to the feelings that so many of us are wrestling with today- including the evil that seems to be so pervasive in this moment and the hope that animates our perseverance.
In a season where conspiracy theories have made their way into mainstream news and Christian pulpits, this is a sober reminder of the role of the Church.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Jonathan and fellow OKC Pastor, Larry Crudup.
Larry serves as Pastor at Tabernacle Baptist Church of Oklahoma City. He is a graduate of Belmont University with an M.Div from Perkins School of theology. He is currently pursuing a Ph.D in interdisciplinary studies with a concentration in Ethical and Creative leadership from Union Institute and University in Cincinnati, OH.
Jonathan and Larry discuss the need for community in this difficult and isolating season. Pastor Larry shares his vision for following in the way of Jesus as it relates to social justice, in a moment with so many competing agendas.
There are too many good moments to list in this rich and hopeful conversation. We know it will challenge and encourage you to continue to press ahead with a vision for a better future.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode of the Zeitcast features a sermon from Jonathan given on Sunday at The Table OKC.
In this timely message Jonathan shares beautifully accessing both 2 different texts from the Lectionary in admonishing us to hold onto the dreams God has given us. This poetic application of the text rings so true for the present moment, where so many are feeling despondent, worn down, and grasping for hope.
This poignant message hold the tension of hope for the weary and oppressed and a necessary critique of the systems that would seek to rob them. God is the God of the dreamer.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a sermon Jonathan shared recently during The Table OKC’s IG Live service. In this message he expounds on Paul’s text in Romans and brings clarity to the misconception of separation from God.
This message is profoundly important for the world in this moment where so many feel alone, isolated and even rejected.
Nothing can separate us from the Love of God.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features part 2 of a discussion, or sermon if you will, that was recorded for the church that Joel serves in Indiana. We felt these conversations were just too good to not share with you!
In this episode Jonathan moves into the text of Matthew 6, as he grounds Jesus’ invitation to not be anxious in the context of our own lives. This conversation is full of tenderness, practical wisdom, and a little bit of mischief.
We think you’ll love it!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation, or sermon if you will, that was recorded for the church that Joel serves in Indiana. We felt these conversations were just too good to not share with you!
In this episode Jonathan share how the Sermon on The Mount informs him both theologically and practically as he breaks down his approach to this beautiful text.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In today’s episode we’re bring you a wonderful conversation with Fr. Kenneth Tanner. In it, he and Jonathan discuss the pandemic. Specifically, what it is teaching us about ourself, our community and our nation? They discuss the nature of God found in Jesus. As well as a beautiful invitation to embrace the emotions that comes as part of your human experience.
Fr. Tanner is pastor at Church of The Holy Redeemer in Rochester Hill , Michigan. He is a writer and regular contributor to numerous websites and publications including the Huffington Post and Sojourners.
We know you will enjoy this beautiful conversation.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In today’s episode of the Zeitcast Jonathan is joined by Producer Joel Everson as they sit down with Marlena Graves to discuss her new book, The Way Up Is Down. In this conversation we hear Marlena’s story from her childhood love for silence and creation to her adulthood appreciation of a more ecumenical faith, this episode is full of beauty and truth. We know you will enjoy it!
Marlena received her M.Div. from Northeastern Seminary in Rochester, New York and his pursuing her PhD in American Culture Studies at Bowling Green State University in Bowling Green, OH where she is researching the influence American culture has on Evangelicals’ view of immigration, race, and poverty. Since 2015, she has been an adjunct professor at Winebrenner Seminary in the areas of discipleship and spiritual formation. She has written for a wide variety of venues like Christianity Today’s Her.meneutics Blog (now CT Women),Womenleaders.com, and Our Daily Bread. Marlena is a former member and board member of the Redbud Writers Guild. Currently she is a board member of Evangelicals 4 Justice, works in partnership with Freedom Road, and also belongs to INK: A Creative Collective. As a Puerto-Rican influenced by many streams of the faith, she feels as if she dwells on the borderlands of Evangelicalism.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features Jonathan Merritt. In this conversation they discuss the current moment we’re in as a nation- including how to care for your soul in the midst of it. Jonathan shares with tenderness and honestly the real struggle of interacting with family who might feel very differently about the world that you do. This is a special and much needed conversation that we know you’ll enjoy!
Jonathan Merritt is one of America’s most trusted and popular writers on religion, culture, and politics. He is an award-winning contributor for The Atlantic, contributing editor for The Week, andis author of several critically-acclaimed books including Learning to Speak God from Scratch.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In today’s episode of the Zeitcast we join Jonathan and Dr. Wil Gafney as they discuss her work around Jewish Midrash, particularly as it informs us in the Way of Jesus.
Dr. Gafney is a Professor of Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas. She is an Episcopal priest canonically resident in the Diocese of Pennsylvania and a former Chaplin in the AME Zion Church.
This is a beautiful conversation full of life and insight. We know you will enjoy what Dr. Gafney shares as she invites us all to sit at our Mother’s table.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
We’re back! After taking a few days off from releasing new episodes today's conversation is certainly worth the wait. Jonathan sits down with Laura Jean Truman for one of the most beautiful conversations we’ve had yet!
Laura Jean is an Atlanta based Writer, Itinerant Chaplin, and self described “amateur mystic.”
This is wonderful conversation full of tenderness, deep introspection, and just the right amount of restlessness.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
We are so excited to share today’s episode with Cindy Wang Brandt. Cindy is an author, podcaster, and speaker. Her book, Parenting Forward: How to Raise Children with Justice, Mercy and Kindness, was published in February 2019. She’s the founder of popular facebook group, Raising Children Unfundamentalist.
In this episode Jonathan and Cindy discuss finding hope in this age of despair- what it means to raise our children un-fundamentalist- and how we can continue to grow, without letting go of the beauty that holds us all together.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation between Jonathan and CeCe Jones Davis, previously recorded during a Sunday service at The Table OKC. CeCe is the Teaching Pastor, Activist, and leading voice for criminal justice reform and social justice.
This is a deep and meaningful conversation discussing the tension of this particular moment, including how we deal with difficult conversations with our friends and family, and how we care for our own souls in this heartbreaking time.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Jesiah Hansen. Jesiah talks about growing up as a mission and Pastor’s kid in Mexico and how this informed his faith journey. Additionally, he and Jonathan discuss deconstructing faith while in the public sphere and the pitfalls of professional Christianity.
This conversation is wonderfully tender and full of life and grace. We know you will enjoy it!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a conversation with Jonathan and first time guest, Kathy Khang. Kathy is a speaker, journalist, and author of 2 books including Raise Your Voice- Why We Stay Silent When We Should Speak Up which is a powerful call to use our voices―whether in print, artistic, or social media form.
Jonathan and Kathy discuss what it means to speak out particularly in spaces where certain voices seems to be muffled or even excluded all-together.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s episode features a powerful conversation with Hillary McBride. Hillary is a therapist, speaker, author, and host of the Liturgists Podcast.
Jonathan and Hillary discuss discerning healthy rhythms for our life beyond simple labels like “right” and wrong”. They dive deep into the damaging impact and trauma that can be caused by over saturation of social media- and even get into the difficult and often painful relationships, with friends and family, who hold vastly different views than we do. This is profound conversation that we believe will help provide some tools to navigate this particular moment we are facing. Thank you for listening!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In today’s episode Jonathan talks with David Hayward or as most of you will know him – The Naked Pastor. David is famous for his fantastic and provocative cartoons found circulating social media all the time. He also leads an incredible community for people who are deconstructing their faith and need to do so in a safe place with other people. In this episode David shares regarding his upbringing and journey through various Christian faith traditions and the toxic church culture he encountered that caused him to leave Pastoral ministry for something altogether different.
This is a wonderful conversation full of grace and honesty. We know you’ll love it!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
We are always thrilled to have the opportunity to introduce you to new voices. Today on the Zeitcast we have the privilege of introducing you to LaToshia Everson.
This episode is a talk that Latoshia gave last Sunday at the church when she and her husband Joel serve as Pastor. If that name sounds familiar, Joel also works as the producer here at the Zeitcast!
In this intense moment of shaking, where systems are being confronted, Latoshia speaks with a prophetic precision-both full of critique of the systems and structures that MUST be confronted and equally full of invitation to participate in the cause of justice.
She is able to bring the vulnerability of her story alongside the needed clarity of information illuminating a path for us in the way of Jesus to stand with the oppressed and cry out for change, both in our hearts and in our systems.
In addition to serving in Pastorship, Latoshia is the Associate Director in the Student Engagement Office at DePauw University, where she also received her Batchlors of Arts degree in Communication. She is dedicated to the cause of racial injustice and black liberation through policy change.
We know you’ll love this special Saturday episode of the Zeitcast!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
We are hurting. We are angry. We are confused. We are exhausted.... yet we sense a wind blowing, we feel a fire burning somewhere deep within.
Today's episode of the Zeitcast features a special service with The Table OKC, perviously aired on IG Live. In this episode you will hear from Cece Jones Davis, Malika Cox, and Jonathan Martin as we wrestle with this moment and cry out for justice to run like a river. We also feature a song from our close friends at the Common Hymnal community called Rose Pedals, written by the incredible Dee Wilson.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In today’s episode of the Zeitcast Jonathan sits down with guest Dr. Alexander Shaia as they discuss Alexander’s book Heart and Mind- The Four Gospel Journey For Radical Transformation. In this fresh lens, each gospel account is more than a telling of Jesus' life and words. Each is the story of a practice in response to a the journey of life. And these four gospels are more than the sum of their parts. The four in the sequence of their ancient reading cycle form a telling of the universal journey of growth, transformation and love.
Dr. Shaia was born and raised as part of a Lebanese community in Birmingham, Alabama. He attended Notre Dame University where he received a degree in Cultural Anthropology. Next came a Master’s in Counseling Education, a Master’s in Religious Education, a graduate certificate in Pastoral Psychotherapy, and a Ph.D in Clinical Psychology.
He is the author of several books including the soon to be re-issued Radical Transformation- The Four Gospel Journey of the Heart and Mind.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Today’s special episode features portions of the worship service from The Table OKC record on IG Live. The Table is joined by dear friend and artist Brittney Spencer. Brittney is an artist, psalmist, and songwriter based in Nashville Tn. Her work with the Common Hymnal Family has brought much due attention to her incredible songwriting gift. During the service she shares her song “God Is Not Abusive.”
This is followed by an impactful homily from Jonathan on the topic of finding our inner voice and authority in the midst of external chaos. In this moment when we are overwhelmed by external voices, all vying for our attention, Jonathan affirms that the real, experiential, inner authority of the Spirit has never been more important and has always been with you.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In this episode Jonathan sits down for another round with Dr. Jerome Lubbe. Dr. Jerome is the founder of Thrive Neuro Health and Thrive NeuroTheology and Whole Identity- A Brain Based Enneagram.
For Dr. Jerome neuroscience and the Enneagram are two pieces of the same puzzle and they serve a powerful function when paired together. He completely reshapes the traditional understanding of how the Enneagram works with your whole being, pushing far past the boundaries of your “type” or the constant question “what is my number?”
In this fascinating conversation Jonathan and Dr. Jerome discuss The Enneagram, whole health, how our image of God can shape our anthropology and our psychology, AND propose a hilarious idea for a satirical Enneagram podcast with pets!
Dr. Jerome’s new book, The Brain Based Enneagram- You Are Not A Number, is out today!
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
On today’s episode of the Zeitcast we have a conversation with Jonathan and Anna Jane Joyner. Anna Jane is a Climate Change and Environmental Activist who works tirelessly to bring awareness to bridge the gap between climate science and those in Evangelical circles, many who deny the evidence of Climate Change. She is the host of No Place Like Home podcast and founder of the Good Energy Project. In this episode Anna discusses the crisis we are facing around climate change as well as the hard questions around being in relationship with those from differing views.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
Jen Hatmaker is an author of several books including NY Times bestsellers For The Love and Of Mess and Moxy. She hosts the award winning For The Love Podcast and regularly found speaking through the United States. Her bookclub The Jen Hatmaker Bookclub reaches thousands of women who believe good books are everything and stories still matter.
In today’s special 100th episode, Jonathan talks with her about her new book Fierce, Free and Full of Fire- The Guide To Being Glorious You. They talk life, community, social media, cancel culture, and what it means to go on the journey with your whole self. We could not think of a better conversation to celebrate this monumental centennial episode.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
On today’s Zeitcast, we sit down with world class Pentecostal scholar Dr. Cheryl Bridges Johns to talk about “benevolent patriarchy,” the difference between how men and women might experience the second half of life journey, integrating the feminine nature of God, and the quest for spiritual freedom.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In this crossover event with the InVerse podcast, our beloved Australian mate Jarrod McKenna returns as we interview theologian, author and activist Drew G.I. Hart about his important text, Trouble I’ve Seen—an absolutely crucial book on race and the Church. This Monday night, May 18th, we will begin a 9-week course on the book, and we’d love for you to join us! check out Jonathan or Jarrod’s Instagram or Facebook to sign up now.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
On today’s Zeitcast with returning guest Stephanie Tait, Jonathan and Stephanie discuss the unique moment we’re in, traversing through a global pandemic, what it really means to DO Church, and how listening to the voices of marginalized people can help lead us forward. This is a vital conversation for us in this season of time, full of life, joy, pain, and reality- we know you’ll love this special conversation.
Stephanie is an Author, speaker, disability advocate, and trauma survivor. Stephanie has harnessed her experience, writing her intimate understanding of pain into messages that foster healing within the Kingdom of God. Her commitment to equity, justice, honesty, and the theology of suffering make hers a vitally refreshing viewpoint in an industry often overrun with relentlessly positive affirmations. Her book ,The View from Rock Bottom is available everywhere fine books are sold.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
What does the book of Exodus, and particularly the women of Exodus, have to do with us today? Is there something from these stories we can apply to our lives today?
On today’s Zeitcast with Kelley Nikondeha we discuss her new book Defiant:What The Women Of Exodus Teach Us about Freedom.
Kelley describers herself as a practical theologian shaped by education and experience, by rhetoric and theology, by the luminous beaches of the California coast and the vibrant rhythms of Burundian drummers. She serves as the theologian-in-residence for SheLoves Magazine. As the co-director of Communities of Hope in Burundi, Kelley works to shape the theological foundation and push for deep congruence between our Biblical thinking and development practices..
In this Episode Kelley and Jonathan discuss how the women of Exodus invite us in a beautiful pattern for finding our identity, addressing patriarchy, and finding liberation in the midst of empirical oppression. Kelley beautifully weaves together the similarities and connection to the word we live in today. Join us for this beautiful and empowering episode.
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Edited and produced by Joel Everson
In this special episode Jonathan sits down for a powerful conversation with returning guest Malika Cox to discuss how to find truth in the age of conspiracy theories. Malika is the Pastor of Justice and Spiritual Formation at The Table OKC.
Malika has a deep background working with churches and non-profits specifically in regards to justice and advocacy. She specializes in peacemaking and reconciliation.
Originally recorded as an Instagram live chat, we could not think of someone with whom we’d rather discuss this timely and weighty topic. Malika has a wonderful ability to bring a fresh energetic energy to this topic, while holding the necessary tenderness for so many impacted by the seriousness of this moment and all it holds. We know you will love this Table Chat episode as such as we did.
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Join us for part 2 of Jonathan’s conversation with Rachel Held Evans recorded from her home in Dayton Tennessee last February.
*Producers Note-
We offer these episodes with a sense of tentative reverence. Tentative because they are so special, close, and tender. This is a glimpse into Jonathan and Rachel’s relationship, which is so much more than “content.” Reverence because these conversations feel just as vital, poignant, and brimming with the hope that Rachel exuded as the day they were recorded. This was a sacred moment, and we desire to treat it as such. As we listen together, we pray it meets you where you are, and helps you along the journey-as Rachel always did
Today is the one year anniversary of when my friend Rachel Held Evans left this world and joined the great cloud of witnesses. Today’s episode, previously aired on the Son Of A Preacher Man Podcast, is from February of last year when I went to see her and Dan and the kids at their home in Dayton, TN just before I moved from Nashville to OKC; and spent the most magical day there.
Rachel did the same thing for me that she did for so many of us: created space. People who were not a people, became a people. I like to say it is like all these disparate characters written into some southern gothic novel, and she actually did “write us in”—into the gospel story her very life embodied. And that circle is ever widening, ever expanding, even now. We found that we didn’t need to leave The Story, just to reclaim it from the forces who said we had no place in it. Rachel wrestled for that reclaiming…for all of us. She wouldn’t let anybody take Jesus from her, take her Bible from her. She didn’t run away from the angry religious mob, nor from difficult texts. She was willing to fight for her faith; she was willing to fight for all of us.
And I am so grateful. I literally see her legacy playing out every single day in my own community, in the lives of people who decided to keep the faith—and in some cases decided not to take their lives—because of Rachel Held Evans. She did all of this without institutional support, without some pre-existent platform, using only the tools of impossible curiosity, fierceness, empathy, and a blue collar commitment to the craft of writing we creatives often lack. And with these, she literally created a space that actually did not exist before. -Jonathan Martin
*Producers Note-
We offer these episodes with a sense of tentative reverence. Tentative because they are so special, close, and tender. This is a glimpse into Jonathan and Rachel’s relationship, which is so much more than “content.” Reverence because these conversations feel just as vital, poignant, and brimming with the hope that Rachel exuded as the day they were recorded. This was a sacred moment, and we desire to treat it as such. As we listen together, we pray it meets you where you are, and helps you along the journey-as Rachel always did
Reba Rambo’s classic album Confessions is being rereleased today, on its 40th anniversary! She’s lived such an operatic life—the daughter of gospel legend Dottie Rambo, she was first known from her years in the Singing Rambos, before carving out a career as a best-selling solo artist, going on to earn 4 Grammy nominations & win a Dove award. Confessions is her most vulnerable record, & also felt like the perfect title for this episode—as this is an especially vulnerable conversation, as she talks about reinventing after divorce, how we find God in our broken places, finding her voice again. We also debut an unreleased song she co-wrote with Jonathan, “At this table we say grace.”
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Welcome to Season 2! Jonathan sits down for a powerful conversation with film Producer Scott Budnick. Scott is known for his work on the Hangover Franchise and most recently the devastatingly beautiful film, Just Mercy. Scott shares regarding his journey and work regarding criminal justice reform and racial equality.
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Jonathan gives you 15 films that he truly loves to help you survive the quarantine. Not a pretentious list of all respectable movies, mind you, these are the films he most loves from the gut, and watches most often. Let us know yours!
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What if sometimes you have to lose your faith in order to find it? What if sometimes you have to leave the temple/institution/Jerusalem, in order to get to Jesus? What if God walks with you, even on the road away from God?
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A combustible exchange that Jonathan has described as one of his immediate favorite conversations with anybody on or off a podcast, there is so much heat on this one it almost feels like it needs a warning label! Speaking openly about the false prophets of our time during this "revelation of the real," but also the ways in which all of us are having to grapple with our essential human frailty, being forced to acknowledge we have really never been in control of our lives. And yet "the truth shall set you free," and there's nothing but liberation in this fiery conversation between friends!
The Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III, pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and one of America’s great preachers, returns to the Zeitcast to talk about this tenuous moment as “a season of revealing,” where we are collectively experiencing the severe grace of having to see ourselves and our nation as we truly are. We talk about where he’s still finding joy in the midst of this time, as well as our need to “vaccinate ourselves from the spiritual virus of lack of empathy, predatory self-interest, and privilege,” the viruses that affect the heart.
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Resurrection is not an edict or summons, but an invitation to know the open secret humming beneath all created things—DEATH IS NOT THE END.
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There is grace this Holy Saturday, for all kinds of in-between spaces.
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The Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis is the Senior Minister at Middle Church in New York City. In this special Holy Week conversation, we talk with her about how to approach Easter weekend during the pandemic, how death is a part of life, the connection between insurrection and resurrection, and share in a very special time of communion together.
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The message of Good Friday is that things aren't going to end well—things just end. Violence will always run its course, hope bloodied. Today reminds us that death has the last word, on all of us. The message of Easter is that the last word isn't the final one.
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Lance Rodman, Operations Pastor at The Table in OKC, can't remember a time when he did not know about Jesus. But he did not always know the love of Jesus in a firsthand, experiential way—until he walked the long road of coming out, in the context of a conservative church environment. Yet his story is not just one of theological shift, but of integration: blessing the people and places that he came from, and refusing to exclude the people who even excluded him. A powerful, provocative, paradigm-burning, and bridge-building episode!
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How do you take care of YOU during the crisis around COVID-19? How do you take care of your own soul? And what do you do as issues come up with people you are quarantined with in close quarters for long periods of time? How can we love ourselves & others well, in a time of such heightened anxiety? Jungian psychotherapist Tony Caldwell returns to the Zeitcast to help us deal with issues of mental, emotional, and relational health in a time of crisis.
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With the world on pause, it’s a perfect time to read great books! Today Jonathan reflects on the books that have most shaped his life and theology.
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Platinum-selling songwriter John Mark McMillan returns to the Zeitcast, and we talk about finding hope and re-enchantment in an apocalyptic time, the potential grace of the world resetting itself, building bridges between the language of science and faith, and finding that we don’t have to leave the particularity of Jesus in order to find a story big enough to encompass all things.
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In part two of our especially vulnerable conversation with Mike McHargue, we dive deep into the content of his brilliant, forthcoming new book. We talk about the science of shame, “how shame produces hiding, not wholeness,” how we attempt to navigate a culture of perpetual outrage, and how our constant connection to cell phones is reshaping our brains, and the connection between that dependence and depression.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
We couldn’t think of anybody better to help us break down all the news surrounding COVID-19 than Mike McHargue, aka Science Mike. He helps us process the news we are hearing intellectually and emotionally, sorting through what we have heard from the administration this week, and giving those of us who are people of faith resources to reflect on what our moral imperative is to respond to what is happening in the world. Part 1 of 2.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Can you trust yourself? Can you trust your deepest desires? On today’s Zeitcast, we talk with Glennon Doyle about her new book, “Untamed”. She is the author of the #1 NY Times bestseller “Love Warrior”, as well as the NY Times bestseller "Carry On, Warrior”. An activist, speaker, and thought leader, she is also the founder and president of Together Rising, an all-women led nonprofit organization that has revolutionized grassroots philanthropy—raising over $20 million for women, families, and children in crisis, with a most frequent donation of $25. Glennon was named among the Oprah Winfrey Network’s inaugural group as one of one hundred “awakened leaders who are using their voices and talent to elevate humanity.” She lives in Florida with her wife and three children.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
With the world as we have known it shutting down, as in any time of pain, disorientation, conflict, trauma…we veer back toward bad ideas about God and how the universe works. As they asked Jesus, “Who sinned, this man or his parents?” The truth is, what is happening now is an invitation to abandon all such toxic ideas about God and the world God created, and to step into a different way of seeing.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
The conversation between Jesus and the woman at the well is the longest recorded conversation between him and anyone in the New Testament. Her whole story is, “I met a man who told me everything I had ever done.” And yet—this was good news! In a time when so many folks feel cut off, isolated, unknown…I hope the fact that you are fully seen and fully known could seem like good news to you, too.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Hell, judgement, inclusion…these are some of the thorniest issues in Christian tradition, and we couldn’t think of a better guide than Brad Jersak. In this episode, Brad explains why he’s hopeful that God will reconcile all people, but does not identify as a universalist, what’s wrong with the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, and much, much, more!
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
On today’s episode, Jonathan talks all about COVID-19. There are all these wonderful Scriptures telling us not to be afraid, but does that mean we are being unfaithful if we are in a time like this? What is responding out of “fear” vs. responding in “faith?” Plus, straight talk on the idea that the Coronavirus is a media hoax, and Jonathan shares frustration that vulnerable people connected to our own community have no access to testing.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Why did Jesus have to die? What do we make of a word like “atonement,” or of the prophet Isaiah’s phrase, “stricken by God?” Is the notion that Jesus died as a substitute to take on his Abba’s wrath for us really the most faithful way to speak about the cross? We explore all these questions and more in what also turned out to be a deeply prayerful, immersive experience of the love of God led by our friend Dr. Brad Jersak.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
You may feel like you are in a wilderness of your own choosing, or that some evil force has coerced you there. But it is in fact the Spirit that draws us out into the wilderness, over and over again. We never graduate from it. We never escape it. When we get here, we are always confronted with the same temptations: to resolve the tension prematurely, “take the Bible literally” (turning timeless truth into trivial bumper stickers), or sell our soul for influence. But there aren’t just devils waiting for us in the wilderness—there are angels waiting to minister to us, too.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
In this special edition of the Zeitcast, Malika Cox and Jordan Jackson join us to present a unique presentation of the story of God, the story of the garden—your story, all of our stories. There is a choice we all must make between two trees, one of toxic religion, and one of freedom.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
We spend much of our lives in relative darkness. But then there are these moments of illumination, where we are really able to see—where the world lights up. And when we catch a glimpse of who God is, we are able to see who we truly are and are called to be. Today’s Zeitcast is about those moments of transfiguration, where we see something of Jesus, God’s beloved, who comes to reveal our own belovedness to us.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
How is is that Jesus can simultaneously bring such consolation, and yet so much pain? How is that he can seem to simultaneously break our hearts, and mend them? How is it that the way of Jesus can both bring people together, and yet be so divisive? The old prophet says to Mary the mother of Jesus, “a sword will pierce your own soul, too,” and that’s what today’s Zeitcast is about.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
When I was a kid, I remember hearing that Catholics “still have Jesus on the cross.” Well the Apostle Paul certainly believes in the resurrection of Christ, but he also says he decided to know nothing but “Christ crucified.” Even as people with the hope of resurrection, could it make all the difference in the world in what kind of religion we have based on whether or not our faith is actually centered/oriented around the crucifixion/the crucified one?
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
This episode is exactly what it sounds like. In part two of our conversation with theologians Dr. Chris Green & Dr. Robby Waddell, we simply talk about...Jesus! Who he is, what he means to us now, what he means for the moment we are in. A beautiful, deeply personal conversation about the “non-anxious presence” that is always with us.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
It has been often said that the interpreters of John’s apocalypse are even stranger than the visions & creatures he saw. Many people are understandably put off by the book of Revelation. But on today’s Zeitcast, we are bringing in two theological heavy hitters, Dr. Robby Waddell & Dr. Chris Green both of Southeastern University, to help us recover the New Testament’s most enigmatic book.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
IS ANYONE THIRSTY!? In this powerful talk from Carlos Rodriguez live from the Table in OKC, we encounter the undignified, primal yell of Jesus, and are invited to move from frustration into invitation.
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Author, provocative preacher, and Happy NPO founder Carlos Rodriguez returns to the Zeitcast for a live conversation with Jonathan in Oklahoma City. We talk about how to know when it’s time to leave your faith community, whether or not short-term “missions” trips can still be helpful, and get a deeply personal glimpse into the beauty and the challenges of his work on the ground rebuilding homes in Puerto Rico.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Whether or not you are fully convinced that you are loved makes all the difference in the world for the kind of person you will become. God's scandalous proclamation over you, no matter who you are or what you have done (or not done!), is that you are a BELOVED daughter, a BELOVED son, in whom God is WELL PLEASED. We get into the heart of belovedness as our most essential identity, detouring along the way to talk about Russell Westbrook's return to OKC, the Thunder, and Kevin Durant's insecurity as a case study for when we forget what God says about us.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
On MLK day, not just as national holiday but a liturgical holy-day, we are invited to consider the life, death, & witness of one the Church's saints and what implications it has for our lives today. In this episode, we explore the connection between MLK and John the Baptist, and get a short treatment on how to read the book of Revelation responsibly.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Recorded on location at John Mark’s home studio in Charlotte, NC, this episode is full of exclusive content on his forthcoming new album, out in February! He announces the title of the record, we talk about what it meant for him to turn 40 last week, the sonic surprises of the new album, his attempt to build bridges in a polarizing age, and how he’s found such a joyful sound in such a heavy time. Oh and also—the world premiere of John Mark’s new single, “Juggernaut” featured here in its entirety at the end of the episode!
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
In our first installment of the Zeitcast Down Under, we join our mate Jarrod McKenna in Perth—co-founder of First Home Project, co-founder of Love Makes a Way movement, Founding CEO of Common Grace Australia, & award-winning peace activist—for a conversation on why decolonization & not just deconstruction is necessary. In a sprawling, moving dialogue, we explore the “pig powers & dog domination” in Jesus’ time & our own, & reflect on a powerful experience we had with Noongar elder Uncle Tom Elder.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Jonathan decided to take his computer and microphone to St. Louis Cathedral in the heart of downtown New Orleans in the middle of night, hit record, and just see what would happen. And well…hear you go!
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Recorded on location backstage from Anjelah Johnson’s green room at the Criterion in Oklahoma City, just before performing a brilliant stand-up set to a full house. From her professional beginning as a cheerleader for the Oakland Raiders, she moved to Los Angeles to pursue her dream of acting, where she became an internet sensation with her viral video “Nail Salon.” From there to her stint on MAD tv, to the creation of her “Bon Qui Qui” character and subsequent Bon Qui Qui albums and tours, to her many stand up specials, comedy tours, and regular film and tv work...her career has been a wild ride! But the story of her soul is an equally fascinating one. In this especially vulnerable conversation, we talk about just how exhausting “deconstructing” faith can really be, finding God and new community in the middle, and the hope of transformation on the other side.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
So many of us are on a faith journey. But if your faith has shifted—what does prayer mean to you, now? What does your practice of prayer look like? Does prayer actually change anything? On today’s Zeitcast, we explore prayer on the other side of deconstruction.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
A meditation from Jonathan inviting you to be who you are, and who you have always been.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
The Rev. J.A. Martin makes his first appearance on the Zeitcast to talk to us about the evils of Halloween & the devilvision from Hellywood, & Jonathan talks about his top ten favorite scary movies.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
On today’s Zeitcast, Malika, Cece, and Jonathan guest lecture for St. Stephen’s University’s Institute Religion for Peace and Justice on “Jesus and Justice in the 21st Century.” This is a foundational conversation on how Scripture shapes our understanding of justice, retributive justice vs. restorative justice, the dangers of the prosperity gospel, and the bombing of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Oklahoma (as recently featured on HBO’s new Watchmen series).
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
On today’s Zeitcast, journalist and author Cathleen Falsani joins us to talk about her new project, The End of Hunger. Jonathan joined contributors like Brad Paisley, Amy Grant, Bill First, Mike McHargue, Jeffrey Sachs, and others in this important new book. We talk about just how possible it is to eliminate hunger in the world by 2030, and what you can do to help. Plus since Cathleen knows Bono, frequently writes for U2, and like Jonathan is a super fan, we of course make time to talk about the really important stuff like her favorite U2 albums, and most handsome Bono looks.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Our definitive episode on all things Julius Jones, our friend who has been on death row in Oklahoma for 20 years. In this high stakes conversation, Cece Jones-Davis takes us deeply into his story from on the ground here locally, while Shane Claiborne helps us connect his story into a larger story of life and death in America. Together, they make an urgent appeal for you to get involved, and help us see how our own voices can make a difference.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
From Gobin United Methodist Church at DePauw University. On today’s Zeitcast, the tables are turned & Jonathan is the one answering the questions! This is a very candid conversation on living in the in-between, & on the relationship of faith, nationalism & social justice. Jonathan talks openly about the awkwardness & possibilities of living at these tensions/intersections, & how his own journey has shaped his faith & work.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
A sermon preached at Harvest House Church in Greencastle, IN. Shame is always destructive, never accomplishes anything good, & should be given no place in your life, certainly not in your faith. But humiliation, friends...that’s the door to absolutely everything. Shame will strip your soul of things you actually do need. Humiliation will strip your ego of everything you don’t. Jesus washes Peter’s feet. This act does not shame him. It is tender, vulnerable. But it absolutely humiliates him. No wonder Jesus says if you don’t let me do this, you have no part with me. Humiliation is the path of salvation.
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Shane Claiborne returns to the podcast for a conversation with the family of Julius Jones, who is currently on death row in Oklahoma. The last recourse in his case is clemency, which was filed for just this week! We talk with Julius’ mom, Madeline, and sister, Antoinette, about how we can all help, as well as new voices that are joining the chorus of people seeking justice for Julius—including none other than Kim Kardashian West!
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Does God have an Enneagram number!? If so, what would it be!? What is the relationship of the Enneagram to the Trinity? We explore all of these questions in part two of our fascinating conversation with Dr. Jerome Lubbe on neurology and the Enneagram, plus reflect on how neurology can help us understand “deconstruction/reconstruction” in context of faith.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
For Dr. Jerome, neuroscience and the Enneagram are two pieces of the same puzzle, and they serve a powerful function when paired together. Today he introduces us to his unparalleled, science-based method to view our identity through a truly unique model: the brain-based Enneagram. He reshapes our understanding of the Enneagram to a Whole-Identity Profile instead of a single-number personality “type,” expanding our capacity for growth and health in a multitude of directions. This is an hour full of practical wisdom from the author of the very first book on the neuroscience of the Enneagram!
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
People of faith right now are largely experiencing the disorientation, alienation, and isolation of a season of “exile.” What would it mean to actually live well in a time of exile—to actually flourish? What it would mean not just to survive, but to thrive, in the midst of such pain and complexity? In this sermon preached from The Table in Oklahoma City, we turn to the prophet Jeremiah for answers to these very pressing, very current questions.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Mark Charles is running as an Independent Candidate for President of the United States to build a nation where—for the first time—‘We the People’ truly means ALL the people. He is the author of the forthcoming book Unsettling Truths: The Ongoing, Dehumanizing Legacy of the Doctrine of Discovery. We talk about the doctrine of discovery, how the choice America faced in the presidential election of 2016 was actually between explicit racism & implicit racism, & how he, as a former pastor, navigates questions of both Native & Christian identity.
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When Brandt Jean, younger brother of Botham Jean, hugged his brother’s killer Amber Guyger, it became a viral sensation—and a powerful symbol for many of forgiveness. On today’s Zeitcast, we asked the brilliant writer, speaker, singer-songwriter Andre Henry to take us deeper not just into the story, but the story we tell about the story. Along the way we talk broader themes of forgiveness, justice, grace, cancel culture, Ellen and George W. Bush, and more!
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Author, speaker, disability advocate, and trauma survivor Stephanie Tait slices through the assumptions of the prosperity gospel that underwrite so many of our unhealthy ideas about faith. We talk about her gorgeous new book, The View from Rock Bottom, how she came to find God in her own pain, and ableism in the Church.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
In this candid, beautiful conversation, Jonathan shares two stories about how Rob altered his life. At the heart of it is this question: what do you really want? What might it mean for you to allow yourself to want…what you really want? What if it is possible that the desires you have in your deepest, truest self are not in opposition to God, but precisely where the Spirit stirs in you? If you are in a place of discernment, trying to find your own wonder or your joy—confronting these questions honestly just might change your life, too.
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Lisa Sharon Harper, founder and President of Freedom Road and author of The Very Good Gospel, is one of the most important voices in the Church today. With devastating clarity, she shows us how the “gospel” many of us have been given is actually not good news at all. In this absolutely essential Zeitcast, she gives us revelatory theological perspective on race, Christianity, and most especially—the brown Jesus who was crucified by empire. Provocatively, she explains how walking away from Jesus in the name of being “woke” is actually to demonstrate white supremacy, rejecting the liberating faith of oppressed people.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Author & activist Shane Claiborne worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta & founded the Simple Way in Philadelphia. His many books include The Irresistible Revolution, Jesus for President, Executing Grace, & his latest, Beating Guns. In this special episode of the Zeitcast, we are on location with Shane at the Red Letter Revival in Goldsboro, NC—outside his solar-powered skoolie (a school bus converted into a tiny house!). We talk about the ways in which the language of evangelical faith has been co-opted in the era of Trump, the need for a counter witness (& an outright revival!), how the way of Jesus is in fact narrow, the need for the power of the Spirit in justice work, & how his faith has explicitly motivated him to organize on the issues of gun violence & the death penalty.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus is not just about the world to come, but coming to see the world as it is from a different point of view. There is in fact a "great chasm between us." But trapped within the matrix, most of us are blissfully unaware of the world as it really is. This provocative message is an invitation to a different kind of seeing. 1
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Sara Miles’ Take This Bread is one of Jonathan’s all-time favorite books. Today on the Zeitcast, he talks with her about the difference the Eucharist makes, & how the table continues to shape her own life.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Since we believe the release of David Bentley Hart’s That All Shall be Saved is a significant event, we felt like it deserved a significant review! And who better to do it than these two distinguished professors and our dear friends, Chris Green, professor of theology at Southeastern University (and author of Surprised by God, The End is Music, Sanctifying Interpretation, & Toward a Pentecostal Theology of the Lord’s Supper) and Brad Jersak (Her Gates Will Never Be Shut, A More Christlike God, A More Christlike Way, IN: Incarnation & Inclusion, Abba & Lamb). We share our thoughts on Hart’s book, eternal conscious torment, inclusion, whether or not the language of universalism is helpful, and much more!
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Real-time reflection on the developing story of Trump, the whistleblower, and talk of impeachment—connecting authoritarian tendencies in the White House to authoritarian tendencies in the Church (“honor culture,” Jerry Falwell Jr., etc.). Authority structures are shaking. Are the winds of change against God, or are the winds of change the breath of God?
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One of the greatest theologians our time, David Bentley Hart is an Eastern Orthodox Scholar of religion & a philosopher, writer, & cultural commentator. He joins us to talk about his new book, That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, & Universal Salvation—out today! We talk about atonement, hell, Calvinism, and how what we believe about the character of God affects everything.
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Live from New Orleans–How do we love our neighbors who vote differently than we do?! In this highly politicized, polarized time, where we have unprecedented access to what our neighbors actually think about politics than we ever have before–finding a way to love "THEM" is no small thing! Is it even possible for people anymore to have deep ideological disagreement, and yet still maintain relationship with each other?
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As a Jungian psychotherapist and devout Christian, Tony Caldwell brings critical perspective to religious trauma, spiritual abuse, depression and suicide in faith communities. Why is it that the places that ought to be the safest things to talk about the things we hide in the dark, are often the least safe? How do we recognize religious trauma & spiritual abuse in ourselves & others? And why is that even those of us with a deep practice of our faith, still need a good therapist?
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Where have you felt wanted? When have you felt delighted in? Could it be that any time you have brushed up against desire or delight--you brushed up against God? From a sermon preached at the Table in Oklahoma City, OK.
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Recorded on location backstage at Chesapeake Arena in OKC after a Hillsong United show, the world renown songwriter and worship leader sits down for an intimate conversation. Admitting he never felt a sense of “calling” or “purpose” himself, Joel Houston talks about trusting God to make a story of our lives; the painful, liberating business of becoming aware, and the hope and beauty he found at rock bottom.
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Who killed Jesus? In the Christian story, it’s not God the Father who killed Jesus—it’s us. God isn’t the murderer of the Son—God is the one on the cross. Recorded on location in his home in Houston, TX, we talk with singer & comedian Mark Lowry, known for his years with Gaither Vocal Band & his classic song, “Mary Did You Know.”
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Juanita Rasmus is a speaker, writer, spiritual director and contemplative. She co-pastors St. John’s United Methodist Church in downtown Houston with her husband Rudy, one of the most culturally diverse churches in America. She also co-founded Bread of Life, Inc, which has changed the landscape of downtown Houston with an array of services to families in peril, & transformative services for homeless individuals. Juanita most recently teamed up with Tina Knowles Lawson and Beyoncé to help forty thousand flood victims recover in the wake of Hurricane Harvey in Houston. In today’s paradigm-shifting episode, we talk with her about when your image of God becomes too small, the story of two prodigal sons, and why God wants you to throw yourself a party.
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The brilliant writer and preacher Sarah Bessey talks with Jonathan about her forthcoming book, Miracles & Other Reasonable Things, charismatic experiences of God on the other side of “deconstruction,” when miracles don’t come, the loss of our friend Rachel Held Evans, and Evolving Faith.
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In this episode, Jonathan grapples with the repercussions of a joke he told that was hurtful to a Native American listener, breaking him open to the insidious language of white supremacy against indigenous people.
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Part two of our conversation with Brian Zahnd is a provocative critique of nationalism. We talk about whether or not America should be considered analogous to ancient Israel…or ancient Babylon? Zahnd challenges us to think of America as four things: a nation, a culture, an empire, & a religion.
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Pastor/poet/prophet/Dylanologist Brian Zahnd is one of the sharpest, most incisive, prophetic voices speaking to religion and culture today. Part one of our conversation with the author of Postcards from Babylon, Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God, Farewell to Mars, Beauty Will Save the World, and Unconditional covers his origin story, his own journey from “water to wine.”
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The Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III is the pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, the author of Blue Note Preaching in a Post-Soul World, and one of America’s greatest preachers. Recorded on location at Trinity, this is an extraordinary conversation about the sound of God, preaching as jazz, Trinity’s tradition of being “unashamedly black & unapologetically Christian,” and how the Jesus of the gospels summons us to work for justice in the world today.
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In this sweeping conversation with one of our favorite theologians, Brad Jersak, we talk about it all—from constructive alternatives to all the “deconstruction” talk, to a critique of Richard Rohr’s Universal Christ, to the big question of who’s in and who’s out? Are there limits to the love of God? Is it possible to speak of the universality of God’s love, without minimizing the particularity of Jesus?
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
From finding faith, to becoming disillusioned with church, to founding a new faith community, the journey of activist, peacemaker, and pastor Malika Cox is almost allegorical for so many of our own. Her very story is an invitation for us to discover the power of a decolonized faith.
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Liturgist & Writer Aaron Niequist is a guide for those of us looking for a deeper, more integrated faith. On today’s Zeitcast, Aaron shows us how a practice-based faith can help us get caught up in “the eternal current,” and the power of liturgy to alter the shape of our real lives.
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There has to be plucking up, pulling down, destruction, and overthrow before there is building and planting. In this intimate talk with The Table OKC's core (just before our fall launch), we reflect on 1619, and how we might discern God in the shaking that all of us feel.
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Jesus said he came not to bring peace, but a sword. We live in a divisive time, and we know that division is painful. But if there is a kind of division that Jesus brings—does that mean that there could actually be a blessing in division?!
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
What do you do when your people reject you? What about when you are trying to live out the implications of your faith in the world, and they say you are “too political?” One of the most dynamic faith leaders in the world today, Founder of the Happy NPO, writer & speaker Carlos Rodriguez isn’t just talking the talk, he’s doing the work in Puerto Rico. But here, he’s bringing us the words that we desperately need!
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Since we talked briefly in yesterday’s podcast about hell and judgement, we thought it might be helpful to highlight this extraordinary conversation with theologian Brad Jersak, the most listened to episode ever from the Son of a Preacher Man podcast.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
In light of the recent high profile stories of evangelicals going through significant faith shifts, Jonathan offers his own take (and, his take on the hot takes!)
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Leeland Mooring (of the band Leeland) has written songs that are sung all over the world—like “Lion and the Lamb,” “Where you Are,” “Way Maker,” and “Carried to the Table.“ From Open Skies Netherlands, Jonathan talks with Leeland about where the melodies come from, the mystery of how particular art can only be created in particular places, and what it means to listen to your own life.
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In a world in which there is so much false advertising, here is something that is PRECISELY what it sounds like it would be. Yes, in this conversation with London singer/songwriter Lucy Grimble, there is also talk of miracles and the like. But our hope is that you will all walk away talking about “crab hands.”
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
In this special episode of the Zeitcast, Jonathan visits poet & theologian, Pádraig Ó Tuama, at his home in Belfast for an intimate conversation on the story that God is, & the stories that our lives tell. Plus, he shares an extraordinary new poem with us, “behold the lamb of God.”
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Drawing from his work on “the troubles” in his own country of Northern Ireland, as well as his extensive study of the conflicts in South Africa and Israel/Palestine, Jonny Clark is uniquely qualified to speak to the violence of the age and the vocation of peacemaking. This episode is a special crossover episode with Jonny’s own podcast, Guardians of the Flame—which we highly recommend checking out!
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Visit Jonathan's Website: http://www.jonathanmartinwords.com/
Watch The Zeitcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHzTuNKhTK-AZjfmkxQiww
Guardians of the Flame: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/guardians-of-the-flame-podcast/id1440911722
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Recorded live from the green room at the Open Skies festival in Northern Ireland, Jonathan talks with Singer/Songwriter Pat Barrett, founder of House Fires and the writer of some of our most powerful current worship songs, including "Good, Good Father." We talk about creativity, the revolution around the theology of the character of God, and the power of music to shape us theologically in ways that nothing else can.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Is the God we worship abusive and narcissistic? Or is the relationship he desires with us one of mutual reciprocity and delight? Jonathan talks to Amanda Cook on encountering the goodness of a self-giving God who makes room for us to bring our whole, unfractured selves to him.
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Edited and produced by Reese Black
Right off a plane and sleep deprived, Jonathan shares vulnerable reflections on the liminal (in-between) space from Northern Ireland—drawing from his own experiences of encountering God in Ireland’s “thin places.” If you are in transition and trying to hear the voice of God, or just find yourself—this episode is for you.
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There are many terrors in the world right now. But many people believe in a god who is more terrible, still. In this provocative episode, we go hard into how we see God, and what it means for how we live our real lives in the world.
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As we celebrate the life and legacy of the great Toni Morrison, we take time to remember her first novel, The Bluest Eye, and talk about how it illumines both the cross of Jesus, and the ways in which we still may be trying to crucify others.
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In this wide open conversation, our dear friend (and Teaching Pastor at the Table) Cece Jones Davis joins us to talk about everything heavy happening in America right now. What is a discerning, theological response to the recent mass shootings? How are guns connected to white nationalism/white supremacy? And what do words have to do with it? All of this, plus talking King Saul and President Trump, on today’s Zeitcast.
Visit Cece's website: https://www.cecejonesdavis.com/
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We're celebrating the launch of the Zeitcast with a concert and interview with Andy Squyres! Jonathan talks to songwriter Andy Squyres about the deeper themes behind his music — both of pain and worship. Andy performs songs from his next coming album.
Listen to Andy Squyres on Apple Music and Spotify:https://music.apple.com/us/artist/andy-squyres/284184794
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1zs56l8qWxeDZ5aBAulSJU?si=CChfJ7gsSPyF1xJb6r2rkw
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Edited and produced by Reese Black.
In today's Friday Four, presidential candidates, the "Word of Faith" movement, and Once Upon a Time In Hollywood all collide for a nuanced critique of spirituality and popular culture.
Tara Isabella Burton in the Washington Post: “The self-centered religion shared by Marianne Williamson and President Trump:” (the conviction you can shape the world with your mind is an American tradition) https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/08/01/self-centered-religion-shared-by-marianne-williamson-president-trump/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6fbe1791f77
Alison Wilmore for BuzzFeed, A History of Women in Tarantino Movies: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alisonwillmore/quentin-tarantino-women-margot-robbie-once-upon-time
Caitlin Flanagan, Tarantino's Most Transgressive Film: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/tarantinos-most-transgressive-film/595309/
"Faith" by Bon Iver on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/3mZHmZahGKJwP0GDtWaOq8?si=jLGmGhujToG9L72NOPe72g
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Thanks for listening to the very first episode of The Zeitcast! Today Jonathan reflects on his past, finds himself in unusual cultural intersections, and gives his best Ric Flair impersonation.
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Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/OI-lscSVIBg
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Edited and produced by Reese Black