Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler: Recent Episodes
Richard Ostler
Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard Ostler (twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler; FB: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5; IG: instagram.com/papa_ostler/) and am a native of Salt Lake City.
I am the author of "Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) and Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints)
I am the author of two recent Ensign articles on ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin and ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use
I have degrees from the University of Utah and Brigham Young University (business). I married my best friend and eternal companion Sheila Juergens of Houston, Texas in 1990 and we are the parents of six children and several grandchildren and live near Cottonwood High School in Salt Lake City. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
The name ‘Papa Ostler’ resulting from being introduced to Twitter by my High School age son Matt in 2010. I wanted the high school age youth to know I wasn’t their age as I interacted with them … hence the name Papa Ostler.
I served as a YSA Bishop in the West Valley City/Magna area of Salt Lake (released in 2016) and met some of the finest people I will ever know. In addition to meeting with wonderful active members of my Ward, I reached out and connected via social media (mostly via the private messaging features of FB and Twitter) with many of our inactive members and their non-member friends. Over time, many felt comfortable meeting with me and sharing their stories. Through hundreds of interviews and ‘listening to understand’, I was able to ‘see’ the church from the eyes of those on the outside. Many feel the church is their ‘spiritual home’ but feel uncomfortable attending for a variety of reasons such as work-in-progress testimonies, concerns about church history, feeling unworthy because of past or current sin, don't fit the cultural mold, role of women, are LGBTQ and/or feel God's LGBTQ childen should be more welcomed in our congregations, etc.
This podcast is designed to 'Have a Conversation' about some of the more complicated issues in our church to help all of us 'listen, learn and love' so we can minister in a more effective way to all of Heavenly Father’s children.
Most podcasts will be from our LDS LGBTQ friends to give them voice so we can better understand their road, touch their cross, learn from them, and minister to them as directed by President M. Russell Ballard when he said "We need to listen to and understand what our LGBT brothers and sisters are feeling and experiencing. Certainly, we must do better than we have done in the past so that all members feel they have a spiritual home where their brothers and sisters love them and where they have a place to worship and serve the Lord(Nov 2017 BYU Devotional)." Some podcasts will be from LGBTQ allies sharing their experiences and how to be helpful.
Other podcasts will be from guests talking about other complicated topics such as mental health, returning from a mission early, overcoming sin, and faith challenges.
Are podcast are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening.
With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ richard@ostlergroup.com I will respond to your e-mails
My friend Tucker Boyle (married father of five, PhD in Leadership Studies, went through a faith crisis/transition) joins us to share his story including: - How his doctoral research into church history led to a faith crisis - The pain of that road (emotional, physical, not belonging) - How the whole process changed him to be more kind, compassionate and supportive of others - Discussion of going from “melody” to “dissonance” to “harmony” - Why he won’t go back—so grateful for his faith transition—so much more equipped to help others - Why he started “Harmony Road Retreats”—a safe place for people in a faith crisis/faith transition/faith journey - Being a safe person as a YSA Bishop, Institute/Seminary teacher and doing much work to help others walking a difficult road - Helping people understand how they can calm their nervous system during times of transitionIf you are in a faith crisis/transition or want to have more insights to help others, please listen to/share Tucker’s podcast.Links:Instagram: @harmony_road_retreatsHarmony Road Retreats website: https://www.harmonyroadretreats.com/Email: harmonyroadretreats@gmail.com
My friend Carlos Toledo (age 28, communications strategist, accomplished businessman, community advocate, son of prominent Brazilian church leaders) joins us to share his remarkable story:Navigating being attracted to men—outed at age 14/15—unique storyHow therapy (not conversation therapy) helped himDecision to serve a mission—totally out to priesthood leadersImportance of being impowered—step into it—owning your storyMoving to Utah and being a LGBTQ community leaderBurnout a few years ago—needing to rebuild—super powerfulDifference between being queer in Brazil and USAGetting through anger You are a good man, Carlos. Honored to have you on the podcast. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Carlos on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/carlos.toledo.19.98 Carlos on Instagram: @thecarlostoledo
My friend Dr. Seth Bott (PhD in Music Arts and Organ Performance, Director of Music, late 30s, Choir Master and Organist at St. James Episcopal Church, organ instructor, frequent performer in LDS spaces like education week) joins us to share his powerful story: Growing up in Castle Dale, Utah—dream of being a Tabernacle Organist Knowing he was gay—never going to tell anyone—believe just being gay was a sin until an Elder Holland talk Great mission, great experience at BYU (undergraduate and graduate degrees). Dream of being a Tabernacle Organist on track Friends getting married, not able to make it with a girl, desired companionship, finally started to come out Positive coming out experiences with family—including very tender experience with his Dad Dating men, being in an 11-year relationship which ended, his current partner Michael (super good relationship) Finding new dreams—not going to be a Tabernacle Organist Respect for LDS Church and respect for all paths that LGB Latter-day Saints walk Going back to his childhood ward in Castle Dale with his boyfriend for his parents’ homecoming and performing a musical number during the service. Love and acceptance for both of them—a little slice of Zion. Thank you, Seth, for being on the podcast. Respect for all your accomplished in your life with music, teaching and leading with love—like Jesus does. You are a good man and are doing so much to make this world a better place. Links: Seth’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/seth.bott.5 Seth’s IG: @sethgbott Church News Article about Seth: https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-faith/2024/09/18/organ-virtuoso-series-concert-2024-salt-lake-tabernacle-organ-seth-bott/ Seth's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@sethbottmusic780
My friends Jeremy Kerrigan (gay, on episode 761, chiropractor) and Sara Kerrigan (straight, teacher, mother of 5) joins us to share their story: Why their marriage ended—the right outcome for both of them Why they remain best friends—and why their communication, honesty and vulnerability is even better now How we can better support couples that divorce including more listening, curiosity, and less advice How we can do a better job of not choosing sides in some divorce situations How their values remain the same—even though their beliefs have changed—super powerful perspective Supporting their kids (oldest is on a mission) This is not an episode advocating for divorce. However, this is a reality for some couples. Jeremy and Sara bravely share their story helping us to see what kind of a relationship is possible after divorce in some situations. Their journey is a beautiful love story. Thank you, Jeremy, and Sara, for being on the podcast. Your story is so needed in our community. You two are remarkable people. Links: Jeremy on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drkerrigan Sara on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ctrsara Jeremy on IG: @jeremykerriganaz Sara on IG: ctrsara
My friend Chris Bissett (lives in Raymond, Alberta Canada, married father of 5, serving in Bishopric) joins us to share his story including:Realizing he is gay before his mission—learning how to balance his faith and his sexuality alone and dealing with the shame. Navigating things in the church that were helpful and some other things that were hurtful “Rage praying” and getting an answer “God was OK with me being gay” Coming out to his wife Becky in the first year of their marriage—wanted to be honest and have a relationship on trustWhile his wife is very supportive, he recognized he didn’t give her a choice, learning that a marriage of love needs to be built on truth (authenticity) and choice. Helpful meeting and getting great advice with Elder Holland early in their marriage Eventually couldn’t keep being gay on the “back burner”—needed to come out more openly Taking away the shame—living with confidence How he moved from seeing being gay as a “sacrifice” to moving toward “consecration” and using being himself as a gay member to build Zion His powerful Wayfare Article called “Light in a Watery Darkness, Finding a Way with Consecrated Identity” (see show notes). Chris shares a super insightful story with unique insights and perspectives—all coming from a place of no-shame, integrity, and confidence. I learned so much from Chris. If you are an LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, Chris’s story will help you. And Chris’s story will help you if you are looking to better understand and support our LGBTQ friends.You are a good man, Chris. Honored to have you on the podcast!Links:Wayfare article: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/wilt-thou-suffer-that-we-shall-crossFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/chrisbissett
are now economically or otherwise out of reach for many members How happiness should not be used as measuring stick of evidence of gospel truth Problems with the “prosperity gospel” How feeling happy is not a choice for many Latter-day Saints—and they shouldn’t feel judged for this or told to just be “more happy” How to find peace and opportunity after failure and unwanted disruption Finding perspective in Nephi’s story on how to move forward in the face of societal collapse Why she stays in the Church How affordability is a major reality for younger Latter-day Saints Natalie is one of the “wisest and most original thinkers” in our community “tackling the profound question of what constitutes the good life.” If you want to find more peace, hope, and acceptance in your life (and become better at helping others), please read Natalie’s book. Links: Natalie’s book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H64LBW2BNatalie’s website: https://www.nataliebrown.com/Natalie’s IG: @nataliebrownwriter Launch Event: July 30th, 6 pm-7:30 pm, Compass Gallery, 250 W, Center Street #101, Provo, UT 84601. RSVP here: https://www.thecompassgallery.com/event-details/after-happiness-book-launch-with-natalie-brown
My friend Rich Cope (early 50s, father of four) join us to share his brave, vulnerable, and honest story in hopes of helping others: Growing up in Utah County and not fitting the mold/expectations for a man Great insights about broadening the definition of masculinity Processing his attractions to men in a vacuum—with no outside support/understanding Serving a mission and learning God loves him and will always be with him Trying to make it work with a woman—be told it will all work out Getting married—good marriage—why that marriage eventually ended Being closeted and being a dad to a gay son (who was out, authentic, and accepted himself) Decision to come out to his wife and then more broadly (lots of acceptance) Powerful testimony on how God loves all of His children—gay or straight Advice for younger LGBTQ folks This was another deeply moving podcast from my friend Rich Cope—who is so vulnerable, real, and honest—all attributes of masculinity. This podcast will help you in you are LGBTQ and help the rest of us better love/accept ourselves, know God’s love for us, and how to better love/support our LGBTQ friends. You are a good man, Rich. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: @richcoperealtor
My friend Michael Soto (mid-40s, transitioned 20+ years ago, bridge builder including being invited by the Church to attend two Temple open houses, powerful story) joins us to share: Feeling he is a boy since his earliest memories Feeling hopeless Learning he is transgender—realized there was a path for him—for the first time had hope How much transitioning has helped him in all aspects of his life (emotionally, spiritually, career, etc) Powerful story of how his father accepted and supported him Powerful story of how his mother—caring for Micheal after top surgery—fully accepted him Advice to parents who have a child experiencing gender dysphoria I share some thoughts about: Seeing our transgender friends in the parable of the Good Samaritan Importance of proximity—get to know transgender people from them—not from load/fear-based voices How the comparison to being “car sick” helped me to understand gender dysphoria/need to transition Thank you, Michael, for being on the podcast. You are a good man—one of my heroes. Thanks for all you are doing in our world to improve the lives of LGBTQ. Thanks for your great heart, love for everyone, and your discipleship. Links: Equality Arizona: https://www.equalityarizona.org/ Michael Soto on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michaelscsoto Michael Soto in IG: @michaelsantiagocsoto
My friend Brent Edwards (active LDS, lives in Joplin Missouri, married) joins us to share his story in hopes that is helps other bisexual Latter-day Saints to not feel alone, don’t have shame, and that God loves them. Brent shares: Pre-mission experiences around being attracted to boys Serving a mission (belated confession to his Mission President—great experience) Getting married—30+ years of not feeling bi-sexual How being bi-sexual gradually became something he needed to address—came out to his wife (good experience) and then his church community Learning how to deal with being bi-sexual in a more healthy way How Brent and his wife concluded he needed to tell his story Powerful spiritual experiences—experience that help other queer Latter-day Saints know God loves them Thank you, Brent, for being on the podcast. Your brave and unique story will help others. Thank you for your courage. You are a good man. Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brent.edwards.71066700 Instagram: @brentedwards505 E-mail: brentedwards@ymail.com
My friend Scott Mena (lives in Deltona Florida, mid-30s) joins us to share his amazing story: * Growing up closeted in a world and shame—being gay meant AIDS * Hiding and trying to change * Gaining a testimony * Coming out to his mom and Bishop * Working to solve pornography use * His friend Mickeal * Serving a mission to Denver (positive experience) * Going to Pulse (before the massacre in 2016) * Working through suicidal thoughts * Coming out publicly and getting involved with LGBTQ community (PFLAG, etc) * Living between two worlds (LDS community and LGBTQ community) * Being “Mr. DeLand Pride”, being a drag entertainer, Ward Mission Leader * Help start Volusia Gathering and how it helped his dad * Final testimony Thank you, Scott, for being on the podcast. You story is super powerful and hopeful. You are a great man who was walked a difficult road with courage, faith, and hope. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scottymena/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/scottmenaactor YouTube Channel info - https://www.youtube.com/@scottythetheaterguy Website - http://www.scottmena.com Extra info - https://linktr.ee/thetheaterguy
My friend Alisha Anderson (graduate degrees in Environmental Humanities and Masters of Fine Arts, Artist, Writer, Adjunct Professor, mid-30s), joins us to share her queer story center around four main themes: Love is easy when it's based on sameness. The true test of love is difference. Time is one of God’s greatest tools. I've come to believe in a God who does not wish to sacrifice me, but grow me. We need each other—in both our suffering and our joy. As part of these themes, Alisha shares unique and powerful insights are deeply moving—and even after 900+ episodes are unique. Insights that I believe will help other queer Latter-day Saints find hope as they bravely move forward—and insights that help allies/parents better support/love our queer friends. Thank you, Alisha, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you! You are so emotional/spiritual/intellectually mature and thoughtful. You are a gift to our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Instagram: @_a_anderson Website: alishaanderson.org
My friend and mentor Robert A. Rees (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees), age 90, who loved and supported his gay/lesbian members while serving as a singles ward bishop in Los Angeles from 1986-1992, joins us talk about his new book called “Imagining and Reimaging the Restoration”. Bob talks about how Joseph Smith creative mind allowed him to imagine the impossible leading to the first vision and subsequent revelations—and how we should continue to use his example to imagine and reimagine what is possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Super powerful imagery. Bob also talks about: Why he is a “Matthew 25 Latter-day Saint and Christian”Why is heart is broken for our LGBTQ friendsWhy he stays in the Church Bob (along with Carol Lynn Pearson, Greg Prince, William Bradshaw, and others) are some of the earliest and most impactful LGBTQ allies. Their brave work and helped so many of our LGBTQ friends and has given new allies (like me) vision to join their LGBTQ ally discipleship. Thank you, Bob, for all your many contributions over many decades. You are a treasure to our community and beyond. Honored to have you on the podcast. You also give vision of what is possible at age 90! Links: Bob’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958824X Bob’s Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees
My friend and mentor Kim Puzey (age 75) lives in Oregon, joins us to share his story: * Growing up in a blue-color world Dad dying at age 12 Friends dying at age 17 Surprise decision to serve an LDS mission 50 years of Church service—but a feeling that he worshipped the Church and callings Less active, “steeple chaser” looking for the beauty in all faiths Stroke—going from age 45 to age 75 In some of the most moving segments of any podcast, Kim shares powerful stories of ministering to “the one” including: * Why Walmart is sacred to me The Chicago L Importance of names Waitresses are angels Workers in the fields I was so moved listening to Kim’s discipleship focused on “the one” with powerful stories of making a difference in people’s lives—the core of our discipleship at followers of Jesus. Thank you Kim of being on the podcast. Thank you for your example to me over these many years. You are a good man. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links : Kim on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kim.b.puzey
This episode is a re-release of Episode 385 with Bob Rees (orginally released in 2019). See Episode 913 for his newest episode.Episode 385: Dr. Bob Rees, Educator, Writer, Disciple, LGBTQ AllyMy friend Bob Rees joins us to share principles and insights to bring our families and congregations together. Bob, who holds a PhD and is the Visiting Professor and Director of Mormon Studies at Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley (see his Wikipedia page for more info en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees), was a Bishop in a Los Angeles singles ward from 1986-1992 and created a safe place for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.Bob has been an LGBTQ ally for four decades with a “long-view” perspective that his helpful, hopeful, and insightful for other Latter-day Saints.Bob is co-author of the “Family Acceptance Project “(article #7 at www.listenlearnandlove.org/articles) an important document to keep Latter-day Saint families with LGBTQ children united, together and strong. Bob shares deeply moving stories of his work with his LGBTQ friends and asks this question when confronted with a situation “what is the most loving thing I can do”?. Bob also talks about Matthew 25 and the doctrine behind this chapter to reach out and love everyone.I encourage everyone to listen to Bob’s podcast—you will be moved and have more principals to help and support others—and better love like our Savior.Thank you Bob for being on the podcast and your six decades of service to bring others to Christ, feel His love, and bring us together as the same human family.
My friend Eric Chaffey (talented organist and director, grew up in Oregon/Northern California, lives in Salt Lake City) joins us to share some of this story including: Realizing his was gay during his teenage years (in the 80s).Incredible supportive dadBeing a sexual assault survivorWhile at the MTC, telling Priesthood Leadership about being sexually assaulted which ended his mission (medical release) and put him in conversion therapy (super painful part of his story)Conversion therapy counselor shifted from conversation therapy to helping his heal from sexual abuseWhile active in the Church, he is often frustrated and discourage about the lack of support for LGBTQ membersVery helpful community in his local ward Eric takes us back into a time we the church and society believe being gay was a choose and when there was no/little support. It’s heartbreaking to hear these stories. Yet with all the headwind Eric has faced, he bravely moves forward with courage and grace. Thank you Eric for being on the podcast. You are good man. Your story will help others. Links: Eric’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/echaffey
Sextortion Experience: https://noescaperoom.org/ International Protection Alliance Web Site: protectall.org International Protection Alliance Venmo: @protect_all Jake’s email to request more information or invite a trainer: jacob@protectall.org International Protection Alliance Instagram: @intl.protect.all Facebook: www.facebook.com/ipa.protectall Jake’s Utah Clinical Practice: healingandhopeutah.com Jake’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-ostler-492716116 Jake’s earlier episode (792): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-792-jacob-ostler-lcsw-therapist-founder-international/id1347971725?i=1000677732364
My inspiring friends McArthur Kirishna and Anne Pimentel (authors, BYU grads, advocates for women and others on the margins) join us to talk about the new book (available on Substack—see show notes) which interviews Latter-day Saint women (some famous, some less so) across the world who have great wisdom to help all of us. Each chapter of the book is a post as part of The Women on the Stand Substack. Examples include: Ask the Matriarch: Golden NuggetsAsk the Matriarch: When Life is HardAsk the Matriarch: Personal RevelationAnd many others. I believe we need to elevate the voices/vision/insights of women to improve our Church to better create Zion. I continue to learn so much from McArthur and Anne on what I can do to accomplish this goal. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast and check out their Substack. Thank you McArthur and Anne. You two are awesome and give me hope. Links: Ask the Matriarch Substack: womenonthestand.substack.com/ Women Quotes: https://ldswomenproject.com/resources/statements/www.reliefsocietywomen.com/blog/spiritual-strength/quotes/www.instagram.com/quotesbychurchofjesuschristwom/ Chieko N. Okazaki October 1995 talk: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1995/10/a-living-network “Changemakers: Women Who Boldly Built Zion” book at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560855185 Or, it's also available at Deseret Book www.deseretbook.com/product/6085124.html McArthur IG: @mcarthurkrishna_creates McArthur FB: www.facebook.com/mcarthur.mcarthurfreeranger Heavenly Mother Matters IG: @heavenlymothermatters Anne IG: @the.vision.beautiful Anne's IG and Podcast @andyetwebelieve (podcast by the same name)
My friend Hunter Knott (UVU grad in computer science, RM) joins us to share his story growing up and starting to hear stuff about gay people (during his high school years), going on a mission (at the start of COVID, getting reassigned), and then after his mission starting to consider “he might not be straight”. Hunter talks about starting to come to terms with his sexual orientation in 2022 with a powerful journey entrée—the shock he felt—and the answer of comfort. Hunter talks about enrolling in the UVU LGBT Institute class and how helpful/spiritually uplifting it is to connect with other LGBTQ members walking this road. Hunter frames this class as the “restoration of His LGBTQ people”. Hunter talks about coming out to his parents (great experience) and his family—including his parents attending Gather. Hunter also talks about the parallels between black Latter-day Saints before 1978 and the current plight of LGBTQ members—super insightful. Hunter talks about dating women and not being able to make that work—and then dating men including his first kiss and involving his family in his dating. Hunter talks about his current steady boyfriend Will and the love/peace he is finding in his life and hopes for their future together—including feeling “called” to continue to attend church as a same-sex married couple. Thank you Hunter for being on the podcast. You are a bright, articulate, faithful, and brave man—walking a difficult road with integrity, courage, and conviction. You are a good man. You give me hope. I encourage everyone to listen/share Hunter’s podcast. Links: Facebook: facebook.com/hunter.knott.2025 Instagram: @hunter_p_knott/
, to help those reconstruct a thoughtful, intentional life outside of the Church—and an invitation to bring the good of their faith tradition along the way. In doing this, Madison is not dismissing the pain and anger that many who leave the Church feel. Rather, he offers letters on familiar topics showing how to navigate a new world with healthy principles, perspective, healing, and good decision-making. Neither Madison nor I are inviting people to leave the Church—but leaving is a reality for some. If this is your reality or others who you love and want to support, I encourage you to read/share Madison’s book. You are a good man, Madison. Glad to have you on the podcast. I learned a lot from you. You work is needed in our community. Links: Madison’s book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GVGS28KP Instagram Acct: @mddanielsbooks
OsPaZu, a self-taught author from Chile, shares his powerful journey of faith, same-sex attraction, and returning to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after more than 20 years away. In this moving conversation, OsPaZu talks about serving a mission in Argentina, struggling to find his place in the Church, and eventually stepping away for over two decades. Through difficult experiences, personal challenges, and moments of deep spiritual searching, he came to discover that Jesus Christ had never stopped loving him. Today, OsPaZu is an active member of the Church, serves as a Sunday School teacher, and openly shares his experience to help others feel less alone. He emphasizes that every person’s journey is different, but that those who experience same-sex attraction face real challenges and experiences, and that there is hope, belonging, and peace through Jesus Christ. OsPaZu also discusses his books, “Just As I Am, I Returned to Christ” (English) and “Tal Como Soy, Regresé a Cristo” (Spanish), heartfelt memoirs written from personal experience—not as perfect literary works, but as honest stories of faith, struggle, repentance, service, and hope. This is a powerful conversation about vulnerability, discipleship, and discovering that Christ never leaves us, even when we feel far from Him. Links: Book available on Amazon in paperback and Kindle e-book format Instagram: @OsPaZu Email: ospazu2026@outlook.com
My friend Blake Muir (age 33, Utah State Grad, Utah State Employee) joins us to share his unique story in creative way—sharing lyrics of songs to frame individual chapters of his story—super powerful and deeply moving. Blake talks about realizing he might be gay in middle school—leading to everything he knew how to do to not be gay. The resulting shame and self-loathing leading to a suicide attempt in high school. Blake talks about finding some hope as the Church was moving to more understanding while preparing for his mission. Blake talks about his mission and then returning home and trying to date women. Blake talks about the complicated road working with Church leaders (some really helpful, some harmful) and ultimately concluding the Church was complicating his relationship with Heavenly Father and seeing his way forward. Blake—who hasn’t 100% closed the door on the Church—talks about learning to “allow God to love me as a queer man” and “didn’t want to lose his queerness”—something he sees as a divine attribute. Blake talks (and thanks) his supportive parents. Thank you Blake for being on the podcast. I was so moved by your story. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Respect. You story will help so many. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode. It will help all of us better support queer people in our lives. Links: Blake’s Instagram: @muir_blake Blake’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blakw.muir
My friend Jeanette Griggs (mid 40’s, engaged to her future wife, decades of faithful service) joins us to bravely share her story about her long road to understand and accept her sexual orientation. Jeanette writes about this in her new book named: “Be True: From Orthodoxy to Authenticity—The Journey Wasn’t Straight” Jeanette shares about growing up in Idaho where everyone was a Church member and anything said about gay/lesbian people was around the “addiction/heinous” worldview. Jeanette talks about getting new perspective in college but then turning to church teachings/talks/actions with more devotion than ever because of her deep-seated conclusion that she was broken. Jeanette talks about later learning this was religious scrupulosity—and that she is not broken. Jeanette talks about falling in love with a woman and how that relationship became a complicated decade of her life because of the Church Education System, the lack of space for LGBTQ members within the Church, and her efforts to reconcile her lifelong faith with reality. She talks about caring for that woman through a terminal illness and mourning her passing. Jeanette concludes with finding her fiancée and the joy, health of the relationship, and the peace she has in her life now. Jeanette’s book includes journal entries and letters to her younger self—super powerful—as she takes us into the complex/painful/difficult road she walked. Thank you Jeanette’s for writing this book and being on the podcast. You are a good soul. I invite everyone to read/share her book. Jeanette’s book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GP1V9F8S Jeanett’s Facebook: jeanette.griggs.5 Jeanett’s Instagram @grigjean
My friend Becca Moore—who had a strong testimony—bravely shares the difficult road she faces as a transgender Latter-day Saint. Being transgender and living authentically has been healing and liberating for Becca—the challenge/pain is not being accepted/supported by the Church or her family. Becca (age 61, four children, 9 grandchildren, RM from South Korea Seoul West mission, grew up in Sandy UT, BYU grad, career in banking) shares the negative impact of the Church’s August 2024 transgender restrictions (see https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2024/08/24/new-lds-church-policies/) causing her to feel unsafe at Church and exposing her and other transgender members to humiliation and abuse. Becca talks about being able to attend Relief Society and how that all changed with the new restrictions and other difficult experiences. It is heartbreaking to hear. We both talk about problems with far-right political ideology that has demonized transgender folks—the same heartbreaking historical pattern repeating itself with gay/lesbian folks, blacks, Native Americans, Jews, etc. We talk about Christ’s teaching and gospel principles that show us how to love and support our transgender friends. We talk about the need as a church/society to live up to Elder Rasband’s invitation to support our transgender friends: “Elder Ronald A. Rasband taught that people who experience transgender feelings need to be encircled in the arms of their Savior and know they are loved. So often the Lord calls on us; He expects us to be His welcoming, loving arms. We need to encourage their friends to do the same” (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender/supporting) Thank you Becca for being on the podcast and sharing your honest story. Our lack of support for you is heartbreaking. I hope we can all listen to your story and then consider what we can do in our circle of influence to follow Christ's example to love and support those on the margins like our dear transgender and non-binary friends. You are super brave to share your story. You give me hope.
My friend Sid Bassett (married father of four, retired business executive, licensed clinical mental health councilor) and his wife Stephanie recently returned for being mission leaders of the Hawaii Laie Mission (2022-2025). Sid joins us to talk about his new podcast called “Return Missionary Next Chapters” which shares inspiring, honest stories of life after the mission. Through candid, vulnerable, and deeply human conversations with returned missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the show explores how mission service and cumulative life experiences shape faith, identity, and the direction of both the chapters already lived and those still being written. These are stories for anyone navigating the questions, growth, and hope that come after the name tag comes off. Sid also shares some of his unique life experiences including retiring as a business executive and then—completely out of left field—going back to school and became a clinical health counselor and how that experience helped him as a Mission President with over 650 missionaries. Please check out Sid’s new podcast and share it with others—really powerful episodes covering topics that help all of us. The work Sid is doing is so needed in our community. Thank you my lifelong friend Sid for being on the podcast and all you are doing to help others. Sid’s Podcast: https://rmnextchapters.com/ from here you can follow and link to your favorite podcasting platform. Sid’s IG account: @rmnextchapters Sid’s e-mail: sid@rmnextchapters.com
Jenn Zingmark joins us to share her deeply personal journey through divorce, faith, healing, and rebuilding. Jenn is an active Latter-day Saint, wife, mother of five, grandmother of four, certified life coach, podcast host, and founder of Find the Joy with Jenn. Jenn shares her experience of marrying in the temple, becoming a young mother, and eventually facing the heartbreaking reality that her marriage would not survive despite years of effort. She discusses the spiritual wrestle that accompanied her decision to divorce, the personal revelation that guided her through that difficult season, and the challenges of navigating divorce within Latter-day Saint culture. Jenn also shares how she rebuilt her life after divorce, remarried, blended two families together, and discovered that God still had a plan for her future, even when life looked very different from what she had originally envisioned. Today, Jenn helps men and women navigate divorce through coaching, online resources, workshops, and her Faith Filled Divorce program. Drawing from both personal experience and years of coaching others, she shares practical insights and gospel-centered principles for healing, finding peace, rebuilding faith, and moving forward after divorce. Jenn also discusses ways Church members, leaders, family, and friends can better support those experiencing divorce with greater compassion, understanding, and hope. Whether you are personally navigating divorce, considering divorce, supporting a loved one through divorce, or simply seeking to better understand this often misunderstood experience, this conversation offers valuable perspective, encouragement, and hope. For more resources, visit Jenn's website and podcast using the links below. Links: Jenn's Website: https://www.findthejoywithjenn.com/Find the Joy with Jenn Podcast: https://www.findthejoywithjenn.com/joy-in-the-journey-podcastFaith Filled Divorce: https://www.findthejoywithjenn.com/program-details
Why would I have an excommunicated gay former Mormon on the podcast? Well, I’ve learned that my excommunicated friends are usually good people—often doing the best they can with complex circumstances—children of the same Heavenly Parents and my spirit brother/sister. I learned a lot from Steven. Steven is not in the space “of burn it all down” and “everyone should leave the church”. He gives grace to me for being in the Church and I’m returning that grace. His story is powerful and helps me consider what I can do to better love and support my LGBTQ friends. When we know better, we do better. My friend Steven Mark Trier (age 58, adopted, excommunicated in 1992) joins us to share his story. Steven (a talented pianist, composer, and producer), takes us back to a time when there were few resources and limited understanding for gay Latter-day Saints. Steven talks about being gay and doing all he could to not be gay including service a mission “to be straight” and considering castration. Steven talks about accepting himself as God made me. Steven talks about how hard it was to leave the Mormon church—all the community that he enjoyed—and the chance to share his musical talents. Steven talks about how that was all necessary as he felt he needed to be “in-charge of his own destiny” and be authentic. Steven talks about “why would a God who made me as I am send me to hell for being me” Steven talks about navigating his relationship with a narcissist father and a supportive mother and eventually reuniting with his biological mother. Steven talks about complex mental health challenges and how he now has found stability, peace, and love in his life (including being with his parter for the last 8 years). Thank you Steven for being on the podcast. You are a survivor and a remarkable man. I wish we could have better loved and supported you as a young gay Mormon. I’m sorry for all the needless pain. You are a good man. You story give other hope. Links: Steven’s book: https://aureusmediadesign.com/excommunication/
My friend Amie Steele talks about her powerful new Substack (see show notes) sharing their journey (along with her husband Randy) to love and support their gay son Hunter, his decision to date men, and falling in love with Jake, and their wedding in 2025. Amie talks about walking this road with Hunter and her personal revelation to love and support Hunter and Jake. She talks about the beauty of their marriage and “by the fruits you shall know them”—and how this outcome brings them and the Steele family joy, peace, and love. Amie talks about her work as a high school special education teacher and the need for “Individual Education Plan” for her students—and how the Church’s one-size-fits-all approach to marriage doesn’t have a plan/place for our gay/lesbian members (unless they feel called to be celibate or in a mixed-orientation marriage)—and is super painful for their family. She also talks about how she “can’t put this on a shelf” and wait for more understanding—as Hunter needed to get on with his life—and their family needed to love/support him. Amie then talks about her son Presley who is gay and their conversation leading up to the podcast giving Amie permission to share about Presley. She talks about how much easier it is to accept that Presley is gay and know how to love and support him because of the road she has walked with Hunter. This podcast and Amie’s Substack are super powerful. If you want to learn how to better love/support the queer people in your lives (or may come into your lives), please read/share Amie’s Substack and this podcast. Thank you Amie for being on the podcast. You and Randy have a beautiful family. Your two gay sons Hunter and Presley are good men with a wonderful future. Thanks for all you are doing to help us building Zion. Links: Substack: https://amiesteele.substack.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amie.j.steele Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amie_steele_/ Episode 626: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-626-hunter-steele-gay-byu-student-and-amie-steele-supportive-lds-mother
My friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019.In this episode, Greg talks about the future—and what might be possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Greg talks about the process for other significant changes in our church and also shares thoughts on doctrine vs policy vs teachings. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families.Links:Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB
My friends, Jeff McLean (same-sex marriage, nationally known performer, vocal coach, author), Michael McLean (famous LDS songwriter, composer, playwright) and Jeff’s friend Dr. Brad Reedy (Co-Founder and Chief Clinical Officer) join us to talk about their new book: “Stay in the Room: How a Gay Son and A Mormon Father Found Themselves and Each Other” In the podcast, they talk about how “Stay in the Room” tells the true story of a boy raised in Heber City, Utah, in the shadow of Mormonism and the rising AIDS crisis of the 1980s. The son of Michael McLean-Mormonism's answer to Billy Joel, Jeff sang his father's songs on stages nationwide. But behind the curtain, he struggled to reconcile his faith with his identity. After serving a Mormon mission, entering a brief marriage to his husband, and battling an addiction to crystal meth, Jeff finally found solid ground-and the courage to come home. But before healing could begin, he had to confront the two people he feared had lost him for good: his parents. Told through three voices, “Stay in the Room” is a moving, multi-perspective memoir. Jeff shares how he discovered a life where he could be fully himself and still feel the love of God. Michael recounts how the Spirit led him to stay present through his son's pain, refusing to let go. And therapist Dr. Brad Reedy offers powerful insight for families navigating the tension between faith, identity, and unconditional love. This is one of the best episodes we’ve ever recorded.. Please listen and share this episode and buy their book. Great insights on how to love and support people we love in our lives. Thank you Jeff, Michael, and Brad for being on the podcast. Links: Stay in the Room Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1969935057
My friend Kelsey Well (who was on Episode 815) joins us to update her story. Kelsey (former EFY counselor and seminary teacher, active Latter-day Saint)—who broke off an engagement to a man realizing it wasn’t right which she talked about in her prior episode—talks about falling in love with Christina and their upcoming marriage. Kelsey also shares their desire to remain active members of their ward. In this episode Kelsey talks about: Her relationship with God and the Church What her relationship with her fiancé has shaped the way she sees faith, love, and her future. Navigating the pressure she sometimes feels from either side to “pick a line”—either leave the Church or deny part of herself How being an active LGBTQ Latter-day Saint looks like. What she wishes church members better understood about LGBTQ people who choose to stay active in the Church. What she says to someone who feels they have to choose between being loved by God and being fully themselves. Kelsey talks about how they plan to stay connect to the Temple that they love. Once married—and no longer having recommends—they talk about to being in the temple waiting room and doing family history. Thank you Kelsey for your courage to move forward in the path that you feel is right for you. I honor your personal revelation, will walk with you, and leave judgement to our Savior as His perfect understanding. I hope and pray you and Christina are warmly received in your ward—and you feel a deep sense of belonging as you worship. Links: Instagram: @kelswayan Episode 815: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-815-kelsey-wells-mid-20s-child-of-god-gay/id1347971725?i=1000698209691 Email: behappi208@gmail.com
In one of our bravest, raw, and most vulnerable episodes, my friend Rod Gardner (married father of 5, lives in Northern Utah, dentist, age 60) shares his story/new book called “Second Change Again: A Dentist’s Journey from Professional Success to Prison, Addiction, and Ultimate Redemption”. Rod shares how drugs became a coping mechanism to deal/escape with the anxiety/scrupulosity he experiences as a teenager. He talks about putting this all behind him for his mission and the first part of his marriage—and then how the cycle came back to escape/deal with the stress of dental school. Rod talks about how that cycle repeated itself—getting worse and worse—until almost all hope was lost. Rod talks about kneeling in prayer in the 5-person jail cell—at the end of his rope—and how that was the beginning of hope/peace which led to sustained recovery (back with his wife Jill, family, regained his dental license and practice, rebaptized). I will never forget Rod talking about praying in the jail cell (and the inmates that ended up joining him). Rod concludes the podcast talking about his love and support for his queer son Kaden and his partner—the first time they came to the home—and his how his heart was full of love, a big hug, and support for both of them. Rod talks about his mighty change of heart from his earlier years to where is his now to love all of God’s children. Super powerful podcast. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode and read Rod’s book. If you are in a tough spot—feeling alone and losing hope—please listen and share Rod’s podcast/book. Thank you Rod for your courage to share your story. You give all of us more hope and help us better understand God’s love for each of us. You are a good man. Links: Rod’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rod.gardner.509 Rod’s IG: @ rodneyg21 Rod’s E-mail: rodneytgardner@yahoo.com
My friend Wilson Privado (BYU Master’s Degree in school psychology, BYU-Idaho undergrad, RM Salt Lake City Mission, Queer, Age 29) joins us to share his story. Wilson talks about pushing down his same-sex attraction before his mission, during his mission and after his mission—and trying to make it work with a girl. Wilson eventually concluded—as he couldn’t make it work with a woman—“no happy ending for me” with led to sadness and depression. Wilson talks about a powerful experience in the Temple seeing a rainbow on his hand—and the personal revelation that his Heavenly Parents love him including his queer identity—and how that brought him so much peace and removed shame. Wilson then talks about “teach me with I need to know about myself” and how having “the test isn’t having same-sex attraction, but will you stay with the Savior”. Wilson talks about the UVU LGBTQ Institute class and associated activities (around 100) and how helpful that is to Wilson to feel belonging, support, and staying close to Jesus. Wilson concludes with a personal message to closeted LGBTQ youth. Thank you Wilson for being on the podcast. You are a good man—with many gifts to life and help others. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Links: Instagram @wilsonprvado
My friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019.In this episode, Greg talks the legal efforts of the Church to stop same-sex marriage starting in Hawaii (1990), Proposition 22 (2000) and Proposition 8 (2008) in California, and other efforts—and the “Unintended Consequences” along the way. Greg takes us behind the screens to understand the Church role in and arguments against same-sex marriage—arguments that end up not being empirically defendable. Stung and surprised by the backlash against the Church for its role in Proposition 8, Greg shares the stories of reconciliation between both groups—and how that led to the Church’s support for LGBTQ+ non-discrimination protections in Utah regarding housing and employment (SB296 in 2015). Greg talks about the Church support in 2023 for the Respect for Marriage Act—sending a General Authority Seventy for the signing of the bill at the White House.I believe it is important to understand the church’s efforts against same sex marriage—and its ultimate support 32 years later for the Respect for Marriage Act. It helps me understand the needless pain for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families largely driven by the culture and fearmongering of the day—and to also open our hearts and minds to future efforts to better support them. It also causes me to consider targeted groups today—like our LDS transgender friends—and not wanting to fall in the same pattern. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families.Links:Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZBChurch’s support for Respect for Marriage Act: https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2022/12/13/23508214/church-releases-statement-amended-u-s-respect-for-marriage-act-signing/
My friend Amy Thelin (who grew up in Virginia, served in Tahiti Papeete Mission, taught at the Missionary Training Center, and graduated from Brigham Young University) joins us to share her story. Amy reflects on the deeply spiritual experiences that led her to become active in the Church and serve a mission, motivated by her desire to help others feel the love of Christ.Amy also talks about returning home from her mission, transferring to BYU, earning a degree in Human Development, and later teaching at the MTC.She then shares what it was like to finally “take her sexuality off the shelf” and begin honestly addressing it after years of keeping herself busy to avoid it. Through prayer, scripture study, temple attendance, and personal revelation, Amy came to feel peace about her path forward—including the feeling that “dating girls is good for you.” She talks about falling in love with Melanie and the excitement surrounding their upcoming wedding in June 2026.Amy also discusses navigating these experiences while attending BYU, including both meaningful and difficult moments, as well as the grief she feels in not being able to fully participate in the Church. Amy and Melanie share their hope of finding ward leaders and church communities where they can feel loved, accepted, spiritually safe, and connected to Jesus Christ—a simple hope to “just be OK to be here.”Thank you, Amy, for being on the podcast and for the many lives you have blessed and will continue to bless. I hope for better days ahead for queer members of the Church—days where they can feel loved, accepted, needed, and valued. You are awesome, and you have a beautiful life ahead of you.Links:
My friend Dilyn Eyerly (student at Utah Valley University, age 31, RM, active LDS) joins us to share her story. Dilyn talks about growing up and realizing she was not straight and navigating that with herself, her family and the Church. Dilyn talks about her decision to serve a mission and the suicidal ideation she dealt with and how she was able to finish her mission. Dilyn talks about “Godly Anger” and coming out “fine I’m Bi”—and how coming out (“letting people in”) helped her and her journey with the Church. Dilyn talks about not going to Church but attending the UVU LGBTQ Institute class—and how that class (and all the supportive Institute Teachers)—eventually created a desire to go back to Church and the Temple—including telling her Bishop and Stake President “I’m a Bisexual Queer Woman and I’m done hiding, especially at Church.” Thank you Dilyn for your courage to come on the podcast and share your story. You are super brave and courageous. I learned so much from you story on how to better love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. You helpful me further realize that fulling owning one’s identity and having supportive people in one’s life can be the road back to the Church. You are awesome. And I wish the UVU LGBTQ Institute class could scale church-wide so more could have the love, understanding, help connecting to God/Jesus, support that are in the class. Thank you for all the UVU Institute teachers who are supporting queer Latter-day Saints. Links: Dilyn’s Instagram: @dilyndidwhat
My friend Chad Call (late 30s, gay, former business/event executive, bridge builder) joins us to share his story. Chad talks about growing up in Kaysville Utah, serving a mission, being active in his YSA Ward, stepping away from the Church, coming out as gay and making his way forward. Chad talks about his supportive parents (Lisa and Jeff—Jeff was my missionary companion in England) and all they are doing to keep their family together including being on the front row of the Utah Pride Parade. This is a beautiful family love story—and an example on how to keep family relationship strong and healthy—even with people on different paths and different beliefs. Chad then talks about the Utah Pride Center—what the organization does—and how we can support them. Chad helped me better understand all the good that Utah Pride Center has done in our community and continued need role they provide. Please consider donating to Utah Pride Center (see show notes) and/or attending Utah Pride on June 6-7, 2026. Thank you Chad for being on the podcast. You are a good man and doing life-saving work in our community. Links: Utah Pride Donation: https://utahpridecenter.org/donate
igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==Gracelyn's recorded music: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gracelyn+wilkinson
My friend Javier “VJ” Aguilar (RM, from Mexico/Texas, Age 25, Current BYU Student) joins us to share his story. Javier talks about his journey to understand his sexual orientation and come out to family in a culture that is very different from the United States. Javier talks about the difficult conversations with his parents raised in a culture where this is compared to additions that can be “cured”. Javier—who has grace and loves his parents—talks about his journey to accept/love himself, find hope during deep depression, and find support.Once Javier removed the shame and accepted himself, he talks about his desire to help others—from a deep place of love. He talks about leading the Rexburg Pride parade and also start a podcast. The podcast focus is queer LDS stories where English is a second language. Javier talks about their work to name the podcast—finally ending up with “One More Seat at the Table”. Love this name! Please listen/share this podcast and connect with Javier’s podcast (see show notes). Thank you Javier to being on the podcast. You are brave and your work (along with your friends) is so needed in our community. Links:Javier’s Instagram: @vj_ag00Podcast on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/un-lugar-m%C3%A1s-en-la-mesa/id1821754247Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/25J076HVloGCw7PADv10v5?si=DEm_xgz7SNq2V1zMXpFV4w
My friend Stephanie (early 50s, active LDS) joins us to bravely share her story: Abuse survivor, early traumaAttempted suicide survivorDisfellowshippedUnderstanding and solving addictionsSame-sex attractionJourney being active, not active, and now active in the ChurchDeep testimony of the Book of Mormon and God Stephanie frames her life story in music albums she has produced: “We Were Light Once Weren’t We”“Whisper To The Trees”“Still True”“The Long Way Home”The Mountain Moved (single)” Stephanie is one of our bravest guests—bravely sharing her story to help others walking difficult roads—and giving us all better insights to help others. Thank you Stephanie for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Links: Aurora Driftworks Albums: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3YsYnjjb1z6RkNqSQAkyJS?si=beygMf0gT0OyaFMCfHltOw Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/mx/artist/aurora-driftworks/1865623115 Aurora Driftworks on YouTube: https://music.youtube.com/channel/UCJz02CqrcO0QfPKf4j_DZpA
Note: In this episode, Emily talks about being blind. In her prior episode (877), Emily talked about being a Lesbian My friend Emily Groves (student at Boise State University, doubling in bio and computer science, active LDS) joins us to share her story. This is a physical disability—not a intellection one About her disability Two approaches to disability (medical and social) The treatment of disabled people (Pity, Honor, Incompetence)The templeDisability isolationDisability vs sexual orientationCure cultureTips of interacting with disabled people Thank you Emily—I learned so much from you! I encourage everyone to listen and share this podcast to better support our disabled friends and family members. Honored to have you on the podcast, Emily. You are a remarkable person! Links: Emily’s e-mail: emilygroves00@gmail.com
My friend Greg Price (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019.In this episode, Greg talks the history of the Church approach to homosexuality—going from the behavior model (it’s a choice) to mostly the biological model (it’s not a choice). Greg’s book documents when the Church started talking about this (1960’s), what was said, the impact, and how we have gradually moved to where we are today. Greg talks about these painful chapters (including when just identifying as gay would get your excommunicated and expelled for Church schools). To understand the road our LGBTQ members and their families are walking, I believe it is important to understand where we have come from—which is sobering as we learn the reality of early days and the impact of LGBTQ members and their families. Further, I think it helps our minds and hearts be open to the need to continue to bring more understand and support—as I feel we are not at the finish line as we work to expand the boarders of Zion.Episode Two will focus on the Church LGBTQ legal efforts (starting with Hawaii in the 1990s) to where we are today. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families.Links:Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB
start_radio=1Daniel's bio page: https://www.danielcartermusic.com/bioDaniel’s earlier podcast (episode 299): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-299-daniel-carter-lds-composer-and-music-department-employee-same-sex-marriageDevan’s inspiration for the hymn: https://devanjensen.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-ago-within-garden.htmlDevan’s earlier podcast (episode 446): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-446-devan-jensen-latter-day-saint-media-and-publishing-association Devan’s upcoming Latter-day Saints in Publishing, Media and the Arts conference (Oct 15-17, 2026): https://ldspma.org/2026-ldspma-conference/ (use discount LISTENLEARNLOVE26 for a 20% discount)
My friend Jeff Strong (married father of five, grandfather, former mission president, retired senior executive consumer goods) join us to talk about his new book. Jeff introduces his book with the story of his son Cale leaving the MTC and then leaving the Church—and Jeff’s desire to better understand. Jeff’s book (with a forward from Steve Young) focuses on:Conducting the largest LDS focused study on disaffiliation (20,000 respondents + interviews)About 40% of those that were active in 2000 have left the church 25 years laterThe “four patterns” that emerge from the data—super insightfulImportance of culture—needs to nourish and create belonging—and how we can do better“It isn’t about lower standards; it’s about more love”Framing of the tension—four areasPowerful story of reconciliation with his son CaleJeff’s book is so needed in our community—bringing the data forward and then framing it a way that gives us tools and insights to do better. I encourage everyone to read and share this book—and consider what we can do better to create the culture/belonging that Jeff’s talks about in his book.Thank you Jeff for writing this book and being on the podcast. You are making a huge difference for good in our community.Links:Jeff’s website: www.tornbyjeffstrong.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61588509745251Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tornbyjeffstrong/Steve Young’s Root talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMJkBbTqB0
My friend Duane Jennings (gay, same-sex marriage, mid-60’s, RM from South Africa, Affirmation Leader for 15+ years, author “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones”) joins us to share his story including: · Journey to understand and accept his sexuality· Serving a mission· Anger and asking God about his sexuality “Told it is OK”· Got involved in Affirmation “Help people spiritually heal”· Been with his husband for 20+ years.· Friends most of the “September Six”—Lavina Fiending Anderson (died in Oct 2023) edited his book· “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones” Vol 1 and Vol 2 maybe the most comprehensive analysis of all things LDS/LGBTQ through 2016· How to get a copy of Duane’s book Thank you Duane for being on the podcast and especially for all your work over a few decades to bring more understanding and support for our LGBTQ friends. You’ve made a huge difference for good. Honored to have you on the podcast. You are a good man. Links: Duane’s e-mail: UtahSoulforce@aol.com. Duane’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/duane.jennings.2016Duane’s Book Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LatterdaySteppingStones/
My friend Eli McCann (lawyer, University of Utah Law School adjunct professor, Equality Utah and The Road Home board member, married to husband Skylar, father) joins us to talk about his new book published called “We’ve Thankful for the Moisture, A Gay Guy's Guide to Mormon Faith, Family and Fruit Preservation” Thank you Eli for being on the podcast and sharing about your new book—which is a reflective book—along with some humor—on our unique Mormon culture. I encourage everyone to listen to Eli’s podcast and check out his book. Thank you to our friends at The Salt Lake Tribune and Signature Books for making this book possible. Thank you Eli for all your good work in our community to build bridges and help others. Your work brings a smile to my face. You are a beautiful family.Links: Eli’s Book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Were-Thankful-Moisture-Mormon-Preservation/dp/B0GLSLKYRM
My friend Josh Otani (Master’s Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from Utah State University and a Bachelor’s in Psychology with a minor in Family Life from Brigham Young University; active LDS) joins us to talk about: How to build a healthier tools and perspectives about the sexual part of ourselves Untangling shame from our sexual part—not something that needs to be “covered up” It’s beautiful, inherent, and life giving Thoughts are part of our experience—be curious—not your identity Agency is after our thoughts—act within our value system Working through betrayal trauma (ourselves and our role to help others) Developing “safety and security” in a marriage comes at a price—the price of being vulnerable Discussion of how to create a culture of vulnerability* Being a peacemaker—fresh perspectiveThis is a super powerful episode to talk sexual shame and how to develop better tools and perspectives to do better. I wish I had listened to a podcast like this a long time ago—before becoming a parent and in my church assignments. I could have done such a better job to help reduce shame and a much more positive perspective on their road to recovery.Thank you Josh for being on the podcast. You are doing much good in our community. You give me hope.Links:For anyone who would like to connect, feel free to reach out or schedule a 20-minute consultation through the following:Website: https://bigvalleytherapy.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bigvalleytherapy/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@big.valley.therapy?lang=enFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61578825803249Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/porn-addiction-betrayal-trauma-josh-otani-sandy-ut/1252682If you’re a church leader, please don’t hesitate to reach out if you’d like me to come speak with you personally or present to a group (youth, Elders Quorum, etc.).
My friends Andy and Stephanie (LDS parents of 4; living in Vancouver, Washington) join us to share their story. Andy starts with the talk he gave in Church using the line “other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation” from the Family Proclamation to talk about how to better love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. It is a powerful talk—one of the best I’ve heard on addressing this important topic—using church leader quotes, Christ teachings, and church resources. Andy received only positive feedback on the talk. Stephanie and Andy then have a discussion around the process to write the talk and things they are doing to be allies in their circle of influence (including starting a local gathering group) to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and those who love them. If you are looking to talk about this subject (in church, family, etc) please listen to and share Andy’s talk. It will give you tools, insights, and church quotes to talk about this subject. And if you are LGBTQ, I believe Andy’s talk and the work Andy and Stephanie are doing will give you hope. Thank you Andy and Stephanie for being on the podcast and all you are doing to create Zion. You give us all hope. Links: Lift and Love Gathering Groups: https://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings Life and Love Gather Conference (Nov 2026): https://www.liftandlove.org/gather Church Resources You May Not Know About Podcast with Barry Donakey, All Out in the Open S7 E48:https://youtu.be/7Nqs3mk5ZyY?si=-DjlM449wWbSOX6K
Note: In this episode, Emily talks about being lesbian. In a future episode, Emily talks about being blindMy friend Emily Groves (student of Boise State University, doubling in bio and computer science, active LDS) joins us to share her story. Journey to understand and accept being lesbian Break from religion Coming back to religion—super powerful experience with God confirm she is lesbian * Coming out to her Patriarch prior to her Patriarchal blessing (positive experience) Coming out to others—possible family reactions * How her feelings about the church vacillate—but trying hard to make it work—loves being in the Church Work to find/accept her path and grace for others choosing a different path * Probably will marry a woman someday Open to serving a mission, open to getting endowed—and thoughts around these two decisionsThank you Emily for your courage to share your story. You are awesome—and wise beyond your years. Honored to have you on the podcast. You story and insights help all of us better love, understand and support others. You have a great life ahead of you!Links:Emily’s e-mail: emilygroves00@gmail.com
- UVU institute class for queer members—super helpful in her journey Parents became great allies Started dating girls—everything clicked Wants to “find a girl who would share my same desire to maintain a relationship with Heavenly Father and works to becoming more Christlike” Helpful advice received from others* Hopes for the futureThank you Gabby for your courage to share your story. I learned so much from you. Your brave/honest/vulnerable story will help others believe God loves them and find more hope. You are awesome. You have a great life ahead of you!Links:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gabrielle.rich.73 Instagram: @richgabrielle
My friend Magnum Davis (High School Senior/Utah County, out to family/friends for over 3 years) joins us to bravely share his story: Painful Jr. High Experience—always being asked if he was gay Mom’s support during these years Starting to come out in early High School years—“felt freeing” Coming out to entire family—“each time I told someone, I grew” Great family support over the years Believing can’t be gay and Mormon—initially felt like he had to choose one Dating boys—keeping communication open with parents Difficult Bishop experiences—but giving grace Breaking point—“I had to break for God to build me into something better” Seeing and working through deep rooted shame—helpful therapists Love conquers everything Love he feels from his Heavenly Parents and his Savior* “Being gay is a spiritual gift”Thank you Magnum—one of our youngest guests—for being on the podcast to share your story. Respect for your courage to share your story out of a desire to help other feel hope. Your story helps so many. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Links:Instagram: @magnummiles
C6:36) * Personal revelation * Feeling his best path forward is to marry a man and build a life/family together with Christ as the foundation Thank you Soren for being on the podcast to share your story. You are brave. Thank you for helping so many people come unto Christ during your mission and for the many lives you blessed. Love your testimony/love of Christ and how He wants to help all of us. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Honored to have you on the podcast.Links: Instagram: @sojonie1 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/soren.nielsen.632826
My friends Kade Smith (age 38, lives in San Diego, married to husband Chris for 9 years) and Terri Smith (LDS married mother of 4 sons) join us to share their story. I’ve been friends with the Smith family as we lived together in the same Sandy neighborhood from about 1993-1998. Sheila and I love the Smith family. Kade shares: * Coming out at Age 18 * Moving in San Francisco and being groomed into an abuse relationship. Was vulnerable and need validation * Becoming HIV positive—told his Mom * Going “all in” with the gay community—needed belonging * Abuse, drug and alcohol addiction—suicidal, called Mom from his balcony—drive back to Salt Lake City * Long road to sobriety—being “loved back to life” * Role of Heavenly Father and Kade’s Savior Jesus Christ to help him * Importance of the Word of Wisdom * Belonging withing the sober community * Helping others. Moving forward Terri shares: * Challenges of parenting an adult child with drug/alcohol challenges * Always loving and believing in Kade * Being there for his drive back to Salt Lake City * Love of Kade’s husband Chris—“our family would not be complete without Chris” * “I love you Kade, and am proud of your life” This is a super powerful story of Kade’s long journey to be sober and do the hard work necessary to get to this point. It is a story of survival, resilience, hope, turning to God, and courage. It is also a powerful story of a mother’s love for her dear son. Doing this podcast together is super powerful—a beautiful family love story. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Thank you Kade and Terri for your courage to share your story. It will help so many!
My friend Laurie Reese (married mother of five, one grandchild, active LDS) joins us to share her story based on a recent talk she gave in her Ward: * Story of her son Landon and her daughter Hallee coming out as gay Hallee’s marriage ended. Mother of one. Now engaged to her girlfriend Laurie’s support for her gay children Loneliness as some people pull away and don’t know what to say Melissa Inouye’s book “Sacred Struggle” and sitting in the back seat on the road to Piha Teaching of Jesus to love those on the margins“Easier to put others in a group and then label them in a certain way and set them aside and dismiss their pain and needs” We don’t need to use Satan’s tactics (take away agency) to accomplish God’s plan Questions I ask myself as I better try to follow Jesus Landon’s difficult seminary experience—how we can do better* Church leader quotes about diversity and doing better * Story of selling a home and heart dropped as a gay couple came to look at the home—and now hoping her gay children will be loved as they move into their own homes This is a super powerful episode with Laurie being honest about the pain and challenges of raising gay children—not because they are gay—but because of the lack of support and understanding for these wonderful children. If you have queer children (or want to be better prepared to raise your future queer kiddos), please listen and share this episode. And if you want better tools to love our queer friends and their families, please listen/share this episode. Thank you Laurie for being on the podcast. I was so moved with your story and spiritual insights. Thanks for all you are doing to build Zion and help everyone feel loved and a sense of belonging. Links: https://www.facebook.com/laurie.v.reese Laurie.v.reese@gmail.com
My friend Candice Bithell (married mother of three, active LDS) joins us to share her story: Candice’s backstoryBones (her transgender son) coming out at age 13/14Parable of the Lost Coin as her spiritual lensPowerful insights into the Lost Coin Parable to support BonesDifficult experiences on Bones journey—anger, self-harm, etc…Love as the foundation of her approach to support Bones“My love is bigger than your gender”Attending Pride Events—including bringing glowsticks—powerful experience of love and acceptanceClose and loving family—beautiful family love storyThis is one of the best podcasts we’ve done for providing insights (both doctrinally and from a parent’s perspective) into loving and supporting a transgender child. If you are looking to better understand and support the transgender people in your life, please listen and share this podcast. Thank you, Candice, for being on the podcast and all you are doing to help us all better love and support the transgender people in our lives. You have a beautiful family. Links: Candice’s Wayfare Article: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/glowsticks-and-parables Candice’s Substack: https://substack.com/@cbithell
My friend Douglas Williams (President of the Real OCD Club and the Un Alone Club at BYU; dual-major at BYU, RM, MTC Teacher) joins us to share his journey with OCD and scrupulosity: Understanding, managing, and accepting intrusive thoughts—not a sign of worthiness Thoughts don’t have anything to do with our character Undiagnosed scrupulosity entering mission field (repeated confessions to Stake President) Difficult start to mission, medication, things got better (still misdiagnosed) Coming home from mission, going off medication, and crashing Finally got a correct diagnosis—path to healing Importance of Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy Ego-syntonic thoughts (line up with values) and ego-dystonic thoughts (don’t line up with values)—super powerful distinction Invitation to join the Real OCD Club at BYU (focused on OCD) Invitation to join Un-Alone Club at BYU (focused on solving porn use) If you are working to understand and navigate OCD in yourself or help others, Douglas’ podcast will help you. Douglas—who has a gift of great communication—does an excellent job of helping us all better understand OCD/Scrupulosity and how to solve these mental health challenges. Links: Real OCD Club at BYU on Instagram: @readocdblub Un Alone Club at BYU on Instagram: @un.alone.byu
My friend Gracee Purcell (BYU Psychology Grad, President of RaYnbow Collective, Activist, Engaged to be Married) joins us to share her story at BYU: Why she choose BYU Advice for other queer people considering Church-owned schools Roommates (mostly positive) Interactions with BYU administration Interactions with BYU professors Work of “RaYnbow Collective” to support queer BYU students Insights on the concept of “Safe Places” Thank you, Gracee, for being on the podcast and all your bridge building work to make this world a better place. You are doing so much good in our community and have a great life ahead of you. Congrats on your recent engagement. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Links: RaYnbow Collective Instagram: @raynbow.collective
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988 My friend Bruce Butcher (late 50s, married father of three, active LDS) joins us in a powerful episode to share the following: Loving and accepting people in his life who are no longer in the Church “We don’t punish a man for his beliefs” Losing his wonderful son Taylor to suicide in June 2024 Taylor’s prayer “bless the sick and sad, help us to be the best versions of ourselves” Painful doctrine the Church used to teach about suicide—led to no hope Love of a mother is the most powerful force on earth Love of our Heavenly Mother is the most powerful force in heaven—she isn’t going to cut off any of Her children Excluding people is not Christ’s doctrine David Archuleta—“I’m still a fan” Being a cafeteria Mormon My apology to my LGBTQ friends I deeply loved listening to and learning from Bruce. If you are looking for more hope in your life, be more like Jesus, and love/accept people walking different roads, please listen to and share Bruce’s podcast. Thank you, Bruce, for being on the podcast. You are a good man—helping so many. I’m so sorry your good son Taylor is gone. Love Taylor's heart as reflected in the words of his prayer.
My friend Heather Sorensen (married mother of 4; grandmother of 14, early morning seminary teacher), joins us to share her story of losing her daughter Hannah in a traffic accident at age 15 in 2013. Heather talks about the initial and continued grief of her death and how she is navigating both holding her grief and her testimony of being with Hannah again. Heather talks about a dream she had before Hannah was born and that feeling returning during Hannah’s death. She also talks about losing her son Richard at birth. Heather talks about not being active in the Church for twenty years and her journey to return to the church and the importance of creating her identity rooted in Jesus Christ and invites us to do the same. Heather talks about her son Zachary’s cancer diagnosis during home MTC, fear she would lose another child, and Zachary’s recovery and serving a mission. Heather talks about why she decided to write a book about Hannah—called Dandelion Blessings—which is Hannah’s nickname. If you are looking for a genuine/honest story of intense grief—and finding hope/peace to move forward—please listen and share Heather’s podcast and book. Thank you, Heather, for your courage and vulnerability to be on the podcast. You are helping so many! Links: Dandelion Blessings (at Amazon): https://a.co/d/0eK9OYGy
My friend Eliza Riggs (age 22, RM/Orem Utah, UVU Student) joins us to share her story including: Great Parents, Queer Friendly Home Came out first to her Heavenly Parents—positive experience Felt lots of pressure to fit in the Church as a Bishop’s daughter, wasn’t working, difficult chapter Joined girl’s high school wrestling team—“saved my life” Youth conference and surprising thought to serve a mission Mom buying her rainbow sheets before coming out to her Being called to Orem, Utah (initial disappointment—but then powerful revelation) Great experience coming out to her Mission President Coming out to her parents—super positive Her queer identity is celebrated in heaven Thank you, Eliza, for your courage to share your story which will help so many. You are awesome. Honored to have you on the podcast. Encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Links: Eliza’s Instagram: @elizariggs31
I was invited to be on my friend Tate Arnold’s show (Over___Soul) to share my story. I’ve posted that show as Episode 864 on our platform so you could listen here. Thank you, Tate, for letting me be on your show. You are a good man doing great work! Please check out and follow Tate on Instagram @Over___Soul
In one of our most important episodes, David joins us to talk about his new book “Devout—Losing My Faith to Find Myself”. In this episode, David talks about his journey with God to find his path forward as a queer Mormon considering suicide—a path that led David to separate himself from the Church—taking God with him—and live authentically. David gives excellent advice to younger queer people and parents to better support queer kids. I conclude with some of my thoughts on continuing to love and support those that leave our Church (not making them the hero on day for staying in the church and the villain the next day for leaving) and thanking David for his many years of service in the Church and the countless lives he has blessed. Thank you, David, for being on our podcast and your courage to continue to share your story. You are one of my heroes—you continue to help so many find hope in their lives. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode and consider what we can do to better support our queer friends. Links: David’s New Book “Devout”: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FJJGJSB6 David’s Book Event in SLC on Feb 24th, 2026: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/david-archuleta-devout-tickets-1981202876135?aff=oddtdtcreator#location David’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/davidarchuleta/ David’s Instagram @davidarchieDavid’s TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@davidarchie David’s Twitter: x.com/DavidArchie David’s YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UC75d1FNP1qR0lCY1usRKQEw
with incredible insights into how to love and support others. If you are looking to find more peace and hope in your life, please listen to Tate's podcast and connect with his work-work that is so needed in our community. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this podcast.Thank you, Tate, for being on the podcast. You are a good man and give me hope for the future!Links:Tate's Instagram Account: @Over____Soul Tate’s YouTube: https://youtube.com/@tateoversoul?si=9qq2CSPf81im35Nc Tate on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3nskaZAhU39wHS7MHCGhM0?si=hXFVo9UbQ4-dLRAaLTMSHw
My friend Rev. Jamie White (Pastor at First Presbyterian Church of Salt Lake City, theological/pastoral education from Vanguard University and Princeton Seminary, married mother of three) joins us to share her story including: * Being raped at age 18, becoming pregnant, keeping her child—now her eldest son/recently married Feeling her life was ruined. No hope. Deep anger. Could have killed her abuser Writing letters to her unborn son The support that saved her; parents and faith community, and her mom's tough advice Therapist jolting comment: “This tragedy must become your greatest treasure.” Initial anger at this comment—but became true. Hard work to find peace and forgiveness—loving your enemies. * Finding her husband Dave—and building a life together. Creating space in her congregation for diversity rather than uniformity, tough work but worth it* Acceptance and love of queer members of her congregation—including the story of a thriving transgender member. If you are looking for hope/healing from difficult experiences (or better tools to help others), please listen and share this episode. Jamie brings a rare combination from her academic background, profession experience, love of Jesus, and her personal story of being a rape survivor to authentically help each of us overcome difficult experiences and find more hope, peace, healing and forgiveness. This is a super powerful podcast. I encourage everyone to listen and share with others. Links: Paster Jamie White Bio: https://www.fpcslc.org/staffFaith Matters/One America Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLO12ykbCUFirst Presbyterian Church Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@fpcslc
My friend Dr. Ben Bailey (PhD from BYU in Psychology currently working at UVU as a Mental Health Therapist) joins us to talk about things close to his heart and work as a therapist to bring more hope and understanding, reduce divisiveness, and bring us together as the same human family including: Nonviolent Communication (NVC) as a framework to become a better peacemaker Moving from judgmental thinking into a language of feelings and needs Understanding differences in others by understanding their needs How to talk across difference with people who have different opinions than us about the rights of LGBTQ individuals Distinguishing empathy from agreement (understanding someone does not require endorsing their beliefs) Prioritizing safety before connection A more compassion focused approach to understanding pornography use Normalizing and having a better approach to doubtThank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you on how to feel better about ourselves and bring us together as the same human family. I also appreciate your work as a therapist and all you are doing to love, help, and give hope to others.Links: NVC Book: https://nonviolentcommunication.com/product/nvc/ Center For Nonviolent Communication: https://www.cnvc.org/ The Return of the Prodigal Son: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/122877/the-return-of-the-prodigal-son-by-henri-jm-nouwen/ My Music Links: https://linktr.ee/benbaileymusic
My friends Rhonda Monson (married mother of three, recently returned senior missionary, LGBTQIA ally, therapist, life coach, and retreat facilitator) and Dakota Moses (gay, age 30, married to his husband Tyree for 8+ years, deeply spiritual) join us to share their story. Dakota starts and shares with us his journey being gay and LDS (and out before the age of 12) to his parents and his local leaders. Dakota talks about how he was not “permitted to be himself, or even be” and painful church experiences along the way. Dakota talks about doing everything he could to serve a mission but how that dream eventually shifted—and the deep spiritual impressions along the way. Rhonda (whose former husband is gay) talks about her love and support of Dakota and how she is both an active Latter-day Saint and loves the LGBTQIA people in her life. She talks about her wonderful son Dakota and his husband Tyree and her love of them, the good men they are, and keeping the family circle together. They talk about a new podcast they have started together called “I’ll Walk With You”. Please check out and share their podcast. Thank you, Rhonda and Dakota, for being on the podcast. You two inspire me. Thanks for making this world a better place. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: I’ll Walk With You Podcast: https://illwalkwithyou.buzzsprout.com/2572731 Rhonda’s Therapy Practice: https://yourjourneyservices.com/
This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Gordon Laws joins us to talk about supporting Dave and Kimi Martin when they lost their transgender son Levi to suicide in Dec 2022. Gordon talks about Levi—a bright, capable, curious young man—and the difficult journey he walked having Swyer Syndrome and being transgender. Gordon talks about the valiant efforts of Dave and Kimi to support their son. Gordon talks about the immediate days after Levi died and his role to minister to the Martin family—including writing his obituary and eulogy. Gordon talks about ministering principles to support others in their time of crisis/need—principles that help us all do better. Gordon talks about how the Savior ministers to those on the margins and invites us to better understand, love, and support transgender people. Thank you, Gordon for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Levi’s Eulogy: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqI2JAKpZWJ/ Sanctuary Documentary: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Levi’s Obituary: https://www.d-mfh.com/obituary/Levi-Martin Episode 631 (David and Kimi Martin): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-sonGordon's Irrentum Article (fictional story of Levi's premortal interview with God): https://irreantum.associationmormonletters.org/_20-1-i-can-take-or-leave-it/
My friend Stephanie Roach—who is married mother of two special needs children age 24 (daughter) and age 22 (son)—joins us to share how we can better support friends and family members with specific needs. In the episode, Stephanie talks about the following: 1. Historical treatment of individuals with special needs2. Geraldo Rivera’s documentary3. Improved laws and understanding—often led by special needs folks4. Utah Parent Center—great resource5. Insights and examples on how we can do better6. Suggestions from her daughter I learned so much from Stephanie about how to better support the special needs people in my life—I wish I had listened to this episode decades ago. Stephanie is also the person who suggested the name of our podcast “Listen, Learn and Love” about 8 years ago. I will be forever grateful to Stephanie for her help. Thank you, Stephanie, for coming on the podcast. Your family is awesome. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Links: Utah Parent Center: https://utahparentcenter.org/
My friend Alex Cutini joins us to share his story: Alex Cutini grew up Catholic in Brazil, sensing early on that he was different from the other boys. At 18, his search for meaning led him to join the LDS Church, serve a mission a year later in Porto Alegre, Brazil, and eventually move to the United States to graduate from BYU-Idaho. Beneath the surface, the strain of hiding who he was grew into profound depression and moments of suicidal ideation. Coming out meant stepping away from the church and facing the heartbreak of family members who struggled to accept him. Yet alongside that pain came grace: a deep, enduring love with his husband Matt, now married for ten years, and unexpected, unwavering support from his mission president and the missionary and family who baptized him. As both of their families slowly learned how to love more fully, Alex found his way forward—toward healing, purpose, and ultimately becoming the CEO of Encircle, where his story now helps save lives. Alex then shares the story of Encircle, now serving communities through five locations across Utah. He honors Stephenie Larsen’s original vision and courage in founding Encircle, and explains how that vision has grown into a lifeline for queer youth and their families. Encircle provides affirming clinical therapy, currently accepting new clients, alongside a wide range of free programs and services designed to create safety, connection, and hope. Together, these offerings reflect a simple but powerful mission: to ensure no young person or family has to navigate identity, mental health, or belonging alone. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we’ve ever done. Alex’s coming-out story is profoundly moving as he shares his journey from shame to self-love and acceptance—traveling from darkness, depression, and little hope to light, happiness, and a deeper capacity to help others. I wish everyone—straight or queer—could hear his story. The principles and insights he shares have the power to help us all. Thank you, Alex, for being on the podcast and for your extraordinary work at Encircle. You are making a tremendous difference for good in our community, and you are one of my heroes. And to everyone involved with Encircle—thank you. I am deeply supportive of your lifesaving work.Links:Alex’s Instagram: @alexcutiniAlex's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcutini/Encircle's Instagram: @encircletogetherEncircle: https://encircletogether.org/
My friend Amy Watkins Jensen (teacher, writer, active LDS, founder of “Women on the Stand”) join us to share her story including: Growing up Mormon in Chicago Mission to Argentina—first awareness of gendered imbalance Brother coming out as gay Carol Lynn Pearson’s living room Y/W LGBTQ service project Backstory starting “Women on the Stand” Area Presidency ending practice, heartache, letter writing President Oak’s recent invitation on the need to do better Best practicesAny shares powerful and important principles behind the movement (which isn’t asking for doctrinal changes) including: Aligning of practices with our doctrine (which is divine equality)* Respectfully relentlessIf you are looking to better support Latter-day Saint women, please listen to this podcast and connect with Amy’s work. As Amy teaches “It will help us come closer to the divine equality that is our doctrine—and part of our beautiful theology—allowing us to thrive”.Thank you, Amy, for your great work. You are making a difference. I learned so much from you—you give me hope!Links:Best practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xuxe0qF_naSVfF3FifQzvv9AAQeHdzD5LU-AaZ_mlws/edit?usp=drivesdk Hope for Future practices link:https://docs.google.com/document/d/19RuApg_1a-GGZYERHhvVRjI23IKPI3ooAdjUHE-gZAs/edit?usp=sharingInstagram account: @womenonthestandSubstack: https://womenonthestand.substack.com/
Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leaveMy friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) join us to discuss: * Understanding/supporting your spouse that left the church Understanding/supporting your spouse that stays in the church What helps couple stay strong Shares values over shared beliefs The Gottman Method A,C,T,S Andy’s work is more than theoretical—as he talks “in-real-life” about how this works in their marriage with examples of how he supports his wife and three daughters in their church attendance (including giving a talk at a daughter’s baptism) and the peace he has found with people he loves holding different beliefs. Andy mentions the work of Allan and Kattie Mount and their podcast “Marriage on a Tightrope”. Thank you, Andy, for bringing your clinical expertise and own personal journey to help those in a mixed-faith marriage. I learned so much from you and appreciate your voice and healing work in our community. You are a good man—glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy Twitter:@andynewmanlpc Epsiode One:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-846-andy-newman-episode-one/id1347971725?i=1000734877746
My friend Rebecca Mullen (lives in Colorado, master certified life coach) joins us to talk about her work of healing including: * Becoming an LGBTQ ally in her younger years Removing shame and providing healing Helping everyone to be their authentic selves Loving people that Churches don’t always love/accept Principles for managing marriage conflict* Importance and application of loveIf you are looking for insights/perspectives to heal and bring people closer together, Rebecca’s work will help you. Thank you, my friend Rebecca, for being on the podcast—your great heart—and all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family.Links:Rebecca’s web site (you can find her contact info, life coach work, podcast and book here): https://RebeccaMullenCoaching.com/Outdoor Therapist episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/episode-736-zak-hazlett-the-outdoor-therapist/id1347971725?i=1000645256176
contact info: https://katiesearle.com/Chad Ford's Earlier Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-847-dr-chad-ford-new-book-seventy-times-seven/id1347971725?i=1000735977230
My friend Isaac Durfey (who was on episode 833) joins us to update listeners on his journey including: * Parent leaving on a mission What happened to help him stopping “hating himself for being gay” Importance of new beginnings Friends like Jake and Joe Sharp (who were on episode 811) Feeling about the Family Proclamation Hope for the future Love of the LDS Church and the support/love he receives Thank you, my friend Isaac, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. Links: Episode 833: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-833-isaac-durfey-black-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000710494050 Episode 811: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-811-jake-and-joe-sharp-lost-brother-sam-to/id1347971725?i=1000691741343
where we are reminded to get back to the basics of what Jesus was all about.” If you are looking for a book to put into action Jesus’s teachings to bless/help/heal others (and ourselves), please listen to this podcast and read/share Russ’s powerful book. Thank you, Russ, for helping us move “beyond belief” to make the teachings of Jesus’s actionable to bless others.Links:Russ’s book at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRPTF1B8Russ’s e-mail: russ.hinckley@gmail.com
My friend Dr. Chad Ford (Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Utah State University, prior director of McKay Center at BYU-Hawaii, expert of conflict resolution, PhD Georgetown University, joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book “Seventy Times Seven: Jesus’s Path to Conflict Transformation”. Amazon reviews mention “one of the best they’ve read about Jesus, how it inspires readers to embrace compassion, encourages reflection and discussion, and practical application”. Chad talks about the “Gospel of Reconciliation” using the teachings and example of Jesus to apply to our lives. In the podcast he talks about principals to reduce tension and increase understand between current Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints—and also to manage political tension within our congregations. Chad also talks about REPAIR (inaugural event in October 2025) bringing together world-class peacemakers to help attendees have better skills to navigate conflict. If you are looking to be a more effective peacemaker and disciple of Christ, I encourage you to listen to this episode, read Chad’s book, and share his work with others. Chad brings his academic training, decades of experience, and insights into Jesus’s teachings to help us all better navigate conflict. I learned so much listening to Chad—and am deeply inspired. Thank you, Chad, for your much needed work in our community. Links: Chad’s weekly newsletter: chadford.substack.com Chad’s new book Seventy Times Seven: amzn.to/439uaY9 Chad’s book on conflict Dangerous Love: amzn.to/4oLGFkQ More information on Repair: waymakers.substack.com
Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leaveMy friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) joins for a series of episodes. In this episode, Andy talks about “the shame train” during his youth including:Porn, substance use, and working with his church leaders Shame around the “addiction label”, restrictions (temple trips), and falsely seeing himself as a “terrible addict” How porn/substance use was more about self-medicating from the shame and trauma than a desire to displease God How his worth become dependent on church leaders All the people who helped him along the way Andy then talks about his road to be an LGBTQ ally: * Started in high school in Iowa with proximity to queer people Felt he had to choose the Church over queer people Powerful post-mission experience giving a blessing to a queer student at BYU-I Fully taking on the ally role following the pulse nightclub shooting Staying in the church as an ally* What led him to eventually leave the ChurchAndy also talks about why he isn’t trying to get other people to leave the Church—but trying to build bridges of understanding. In the next episode, will talk about his mixed-faith marriage (Andy’s wife is active LDS) and how they have a beautiful/supportive marriage—including Andy attending church.Thank you, my friend Andy, for being on the podcast and your great heart and clinical skills to help heal others and bring us together as the same human family. You are a good man and friend.Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy
: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/articles/confronting-mens-violence-against-women-and-girls-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/
My friend Autumn McAlpin (co-director and mother of two queer sons) and Vienna Boyes (co-director, mid 20s, queer) join us to share their stories and also their new feature length documentary called “Sanctuary”. Sanctuary—a must see—is a powerful documentary telling stories at the intersection of being a Latter-day Saint (and other Christian faiths) and being LGBTQ. I watched Sanctuary and was deeply moved hearing powerful stories/projects/efforts of queer people, parents, allies, and local church leaders. I learned so much and was deeply moved. I encourage everyone to watch Sanctuary (see show notes) and share with others. The film will be going on a screening tour in early 2026 before being released on streamers -- please follow the film's website and Instagram for screening announcements. Thank you, Autumn, and Vienna—and everyone involved with the documentary. You are making a huge difference in our community! Links: Sanctuary Web Site: https://sanctuarydoc.com/Sanctuary Instagram: @sanctuarydocfilmVienna's Instagram: @indigothestudioAutumn's Instagram: @autumnmcalpinSpencer’s Song: https://open.spotify.com/track/2qKXdi4mxZ0rXGoxJ6jlCF
My friend Bryson Lind (active gay Latter-day Saint, mid 30’s) joins us to discuss his new therapy practice in Utah (Aletheia Counseling) and important topics he helps clients (LGBTQ and straight) solve including: Overcoming unwanted behaviors Reconstructing a relationship with the Divine Honoring everyone’s path Trusting our Light of Christ/Inner Compass Navigating relationships with parents and leaders Developing self-confidence and patienceIf you are looking for a therapist (or insights from a therapist to help you—or to be a better ally for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints), this is a must listen podcast. Bryson’s brings his lived experience, clinical training, and 5 years of clinical practice together to offer powerful solutions and principles. I was so moved listening to Bryson and so grateful to have him back on the podcast.Thank you, Bryson. You are a good man doing great work in our community.Links:Bryson’s e-mail: bryson@aletheiacounselingtherapy.comBryson’s Work Phone: 385-442-9721Bryson’s earlier podcast: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-588-bryson-lind-rm-byu-grad-gay-clinical-mental-health-counselorBryson’s Psychology Today profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/bryson-garrett-lind-provo-ut/1090307
My friend Rob Metalf (married father of two, age 33) joins us to share his journey with his mental health (OCD/anxiety) and his physical health (Ankylosing spondylitis—or AS). Rob (guitar player and songwriter) has formed a band (TOWN!) and is releasing an album (The Road Trip) that captures many of his life experiences. The first song (Forever—see show notes) is a song about his anxiety. In the podcast, Rob talks about other songs that on the album talking about important and sensitive subjects (suicide, relationship with the Church, Alzheimer's).In the podcast, Rob shares his journey with AS (undiagnosed for a long time) and how it took him from an avid outdoorsman to—on his worse days—bedridden. Rob talks about his journey to find a diagnosis and the right medication to get him in a better spot—and all the people that helped him along the way. Rob is honest about feeling angry/abandon by God and how we can better support people with long-term health challenges.Rob is one of my heroes. He is a survivor and now using his gifts to help others through sharing his story and his music. I encourage you to listen to and share this podcast and his music. Thank you, Rob, for being on the podcast. You are a good man.Links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/5B6F6RaBY79SLmTIZvOzLs?si=495f1a71eacd480e&nd=1&dlsi=cc0b82d21bb24d6eApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/forever/1826704391?i=1826704454Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abandcalledtown/
Talk given in our YSA Ward on the character of our Heavenly Parents and Jesus—and how that brings us peace, healing, and hope. Focused on seven concepts: 1) Our Heavenly Parents love all Their children2) We have to believe/know we are acceptable to God. That we are created as intended. That no one is a mistake3) Zion isn’t sameness4) Jesus loves to forgive5) Whole and complete now6) Don’t feel you are behind7) Throw out the dating checklist Links: Seven Tips for Overcoming Porn Use: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use How the Savior’s Healing Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin
My friends Aaron and Julie Bujnowski (married parents of two; living North of Dallas, Texas, active Latter-day Saints) join us to talk about their new book “Navigating to Jesus: A Journey of Faith.” In this important 10-chapter book, Aaron and Julie share many of their own difficult/wounding experiences (both in and out of the Church), and their path forward to healing and staying in the Church is Jesus. Thank you, Aaron and Julie, for opening up your hearts in writing this needed book and being on the podcast. I am grateful for your courage to talk about some of your difficult life experiences, and “navigating to Jesus” is the answer. I encourage everyone to check out your book! Links: Amazon: https://a.co/d/cUw0Y09 Cedar Fort: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/navigating-to-jesus-a-journey-of-faith?sca_ref=2861413.ytmX5gv94t Instagram: @navigatingtojesus Earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 647): soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-647-aaron-and-julie-bujnowski-new-book-discovering-your-temple-insights
My friend Jessica Frew (life coach, former husband is gay and still “part of the family”, married mother of three) joins us to share her story of her husband coming out as gay and that marriage ending—and still staying close as they co-parent their daughter. Jessica also talks about her important new book called “Shove Your Shoulds” which focuses on healthier boundaries, improved self-image, and deeper acceptance of ourselves and others. Jessica writes the book from her own experiences and from her work as a life coach. I am grateful for Jessica’s voice on acceptance and understanding in our community—and encourage everyone to check out her new book (currently in presale—release date of Sept 12, 2025). Thank you, Jessica, for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Links: Book website: https://shoveyourshoulds.com/Jessica on Instagram: @heyjessicafrewJessica’s podcast (Husband In Law): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/husband-in-law/id1464470280Jessica’s earlier episode on Listen, Learn, and Love (episode 217): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-217-jessica-and-matt-frew-active-lds-and-steve-stoddard-jessicas-gay-former-husband
My friend Darren Parry (Shoshone Leader, Adjust Professor at Utah State and University of Utah, Author) joins us to talk about his new book called “Tending the Sacred: How Indigenous Wisdom will Save the World” which talks about values from the lens of our Indigenous friends to help understand and solve today’s problems. Darren talks about his own history (including his ancestors) using real life examples on how “Indigenous Wisdom” helps see and solve problems bringing us together as the same human family. I am deeply moved by Darren’s insights/soft heart and work to build bridges. I’m honored to have served as Darren’s companion during our missions in England 45 years ago as I had the chance to see Darren’s love for the people of England (and love for me—his new junior companion). I encourage everyone to reach Darren’s book—for timeless values to help bring us together. Thank you to our friends at BCC Press for publishing Darren’s book. Thank you, Darren, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our world! Links: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1961471248 Darren’s FB: https://www.facebook.com/darren.parry.7
My friends McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel (authors, BYU grads, advocates for those on the margins) join us to talk about their important new book (at Deseret Book and Amazon) called “Changemakers: Women Who Bolding Built Zion”The podcast/book covers important topics:How revelation is “scattered”How women led changing the Church Institution with Primary and Relief SocietyHow most of the change we can impact is in our local area around cultureAnne’s racial awakening—and her desire to help people of other races feel belongingThe “Back Yard Principle”Supporting those who leave the churchWhy McArthur and Anne (knowing all the complicated issues) stay in the ChurchWhy McArthur hopes the Church her daughters are raised in is different than the Church she was raised in—and how we should embrace changeImportance of personal authorityIf you are looking to improve church culture to better create Zion so more feel welcome, I encourage you to read/share this book. It has real-life stories and perspectives/principles to help each of us. I wish I had read a book like this a long time ago. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others.Thank you, McArthur and Anne, for your needed work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast!Links:Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560855185Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/6085124.htmlMcArthur IG: @mcarthurkrishna_createsMcArthur FB: www.facebook.com/mcarthur.mcarthurfreerangerHeavenly Mother Matters IG: @heavenlymothermattersAnne IG: @the.vision.beautifulJames Jones Online Course: btbacademy.thinkific.com/courses/lds-anti-racism-101-abandoning-attitudes-and-actions-of-prejudice Chapter on How We Should Treat People Who Leave the Church: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zkupzyte3lqqtxla6q9y1/Chapter-4-How-Should-We-Treat-Those-Who-Leave-the-Church.pdf?rlkey=w00hdkyywo5m9dyg1uwscqbxm&dl=0
My friends Shirley Washenko (sexual abuse survivor/advocate) and Sage Williams (MSc, RN, long-time advocate) joins us to talk about their new, groundbreaking and needed book (published by Deseret Book) called “Healing after Sexual Abuse, A Latter-day Saint Perspective”.The book has these powerful chapters:1) Establishing Identity2) Uncovering Wounds3) Embracing Agency4) Differentiating Healing Journeys5) Responding to Anger with Integrity6) The Core: Connection7) It Takes “an Angel” to Speak the Truth8) Grief: Linking, Past Present, and Future9) Forgiveness in a New Light10) The Healing JourneyThis is one of the finest podcasts we’ve done on healing after sexual abuse. Shirley and Sage (from their respective experiences) bring new, impactful, and practical insights to help heal from sexual abuse. The book will help sexual abuse survivors and also the rest of us as we learn better tools to help them.I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast, read the book—and share with others.Thank you, Shirley and Sage, for your life-saving work to bring hope and healing. You are two of my heroes. Honored to have you on the podcast!Links:Web Site: www.healingaftersexualabuse.com/Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/P6078641.htmlAmazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1639934219
My friends Ashli Carnicelli, Trina Caudle, and McArthur Krishna join us to talk about their new book “Mother in Heaven: A Gospel Topics Essay Study Guide.” The book is exactly what the title says: a study guide for the Church's Gospel Topics essay on Heavenly Mother. The book authors talk about the spiritual benefits in our lives of learning about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother and why She matters. This book is aligned with official Church statements and teachings about the doctrine of Heavenly Mother. The authors hope that it helps people seeking our Mother in Heaven to spiritually connect with Her so She is real, intentional, and active in our lives and in Church conversations. Thank you, Ashli, Trina and McArthur, for your needed work. I was deeply moved by your insights and good hearts. I encourage everyone to read this book. Links: Mother in Heaven Study Guide: www.amazon.com/dp/1734228725 Cherish 1: The Joy of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1948218879 Cherish 2: The Love of Our Mother in Heaven: www.amazon.com/dp/1734228733 A Girl's Guide to Heavenly Mother: www.deseretbook.com/product/5258047.html A Boy's Guide to Heavenly Mother: www.deseretbook.com/product/5258052.html Combined IG account: @heavenlymothermattersPersonal IG accounts: @ashlicarnicelli @libraryhouseediting @mcarthurkrishna_creates Library House Editing page with links to the gospel topics essay footnotes and some other resources: https://libraryhouseediting.com/?page_id=741
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Isaac Durfey (lives in Utah County, Age 34, Adopted, Active Latter-day Saint) bravely joins us to share his story which includes: * Being bullied Being suicidal Working through pornography Convicted of being a sex offender and spending 4.5 years in prison Leaving prison—what he learned, why he isn’t going back, finding hope Accepting he is gay—but doesn’t define him Talented musician Great/supportive parents Role of friends to help him feel he is loved and needed Great YSA Wards* Hopes for his future including the Melchizedek Priesthood and Temple Endowment Thank you, Isaac, for your courage to come on the podcast and share your story—stories like yours help others find hope. Thanks for helping all understand our Heavenly Parents love all of us and how the Gospel of Jesus Christ gives hope, heals and helps us move forward. You are a good man. Links: Isaac on Instagram: @durfsmurf25
My friend Lilly MacKenzie (who was on Episode 765) joins us to update listeners on her journey—including her spiritual journey (which includes more about her purpose, her belief in the Church, and her mission to help others).Lilly also talks about how the August 2024 transgender handbooks updates negatively impacted her—and how/why she continues to be a deeply committed and believing Latter-day Saint. She also talks about the support/support groups that help her. And she talks about how her emotional health is so much better since transitioning.Thank you, Lilly, for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are helping so many. Links:June 2025 Gather Conference: www.gather-conference.com/Lilly’s earlier episode (765): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-765-lilly-mackenzie-transgender-latter-day/id1347971725?i=1000661805297
My friend Aiden Kelly (he/him, trans man, age 23, future in theatre) and my friend Annalee Kelly (married mother of 4, RM, active LDS, from Idaho Falls) join us to share their story. Aiden starts and talks about: * Immense pain of gender dysphoria Writing in his journal—and sharing that journal entry with his mother as a way to come out as a boy Knowing sharing his pain with others would be key to getting help and making his future possible How hormone treatment and top surgery ended the pain and have him hope Parents support Glad he is alive. Has hope and a future. Advice to others who are suicidal/have no hope. Annalee then shares about: * The long-term hatred Aiden had for his body (hair pulling, pounding on his chest, etc) Asking advice from his Bishop (good experience) Had to put Aiden’s life ahead of my original dreams/hopes Generally positive ward and family support Starting Open Arms of Idaho Pain of the August 2024 transgender handbook policy update “Aiden is a masterpiece”* Aiden’s Father support Aiden is one of my heroes—a brave, talented, a good man—with a wonderful future. I’m glad you are alive Aiden and thank you for your courage to share your story. You give hope to others. And thank you Annalee for helping us know we can love and support our LGBTQ friends and family—and how that is part of responsibility as Latter-day Saints and followers of Jesus. Thank you for all the work you and your team is doing in the Idaho Falls area to bring more love and understanding. You are all some of my heroes. You are a beautiful family. And your story will help so many. Links: Open Arms of Idaho: openarmsidaho.org/ Open Arms of Idaho Instagram: @openarmsidaho Open Arms of Idaho Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089047401155
My friend Nikki Andreasky (BYU-I grad, lives in AZ, they/them) joins us to share their story including: * Long-term gender dysphoria/chest dysphoria—and prayerful decision to have top surgery Love of the temple Learning of the handbook changes (Aug 2024) for transgender members weeks before the surgery leading to feelings of “being stabbed in the gut”, “betrayed” and “really hurt” Meeting with local leaders Proceeding with the top surgery—feelings of gender euphoriaPain of not being able to attend the temple and no chance of temple sealing How North Star gave them a spiritual boost Why they stay in the Church* Supportive mothers—grandma’s scriptures Nikki is one of my heroes—for their spiritual/emotional maturity and navigating an incredible complex road as a non-binary Latter-day Saint. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode so we can better understand, love and support non-binary/transgender Latter-day Saints. I believe they are needed members of the Body of Christ. Thank you for being on the podcast, Nikki. You are awesome. Links: North Star Voices of Hope: www.northstarsaints.org/voh-nikki-2022 Earlier Listen Learn and Love Podcast: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-320-lynsie-andreasky-active-lds-asexual-aromantic-and-gender-queer/sets Nikki’s Tic Tok: www.tiktok.com/@scattering_sunshine?_t=ZT-8w1g82Dlqsl&_r=1 Nikki’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/share/16HB8rwVrQ/?mibextid=wwXIfr
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Jenn Curtis (late 40s, lives in California, experiences same-sex attraction) joins us to share her powerful story out of a desire to help others including: * Sexual assault survivor which led to unhealthy coping behaviors and immense shame Falsely concluding “God is disappointed in me” Falsely concluding (at age 17) that death would be a better option Feeling unlovable and that “no one could love the real me” Finding more hope—but two subsequent decades of living in a “form of internal hell” Powerful spiritual experience where God told her she is a “bullfighter” Honest about sexual orientation with God, herself, and husband Helpful friends—part of the process to remove shame As friends loved/accepted her, Jenn considered “I might be lovable—and God may love me too” My story is a “beautiful love story” Finding joy Powerful EFY experience* North StarThis is a super-powerful, spiritual, and vulnerable podcast providing principles to help us better understand God’s love, how shame has no place in the Gospel, and how Jesus helps heal us. If you are in a hard spot, please listen to Jenn’s story. It will give you more hope. And if you are looking to better support our SSA/LGBTQ friends, please listen and share Jenn’s podcast.Thank you for being on the podcast, Jenn! You are so brave—you are bullfighter—and your courage is helping so many!Links: youtube.com/@LatterdayWomenWarriorshttps://www.northstarsaints.org/voh-jennwww.youtube.com/@TheApocrypharules www.northstarsaints.org/voices-of-hope-profilesNorth Star: www.northstarsaints.org/Jenn’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007513065761
My friend Sharlee Mullins Glenn (noted author, former adjunct faculty at BYU, committed Latter-day Saint, married mother of 5, founder and former Executive Director of MWEG) joins us to talk about her important and groundbreaking new book, an expansive epic poem full of imagination and possibilities, centering the feminine divine.In the words of Fiona Givens, Sharlee’s epic poem “is an ambitious and beautiful rendering of Latter-day Saint beliefs and yearnings regarding the feminine divine, the ethos of existence, and the centrality of agency, relationships and love.”Some of the ideas Sharlee shared include:1) Her book is fiction--a blending of theology, science, and imagination2) It is an offering of imagination, and does not purport to set forth doctrine3) Imagination is a spiritual gift and reflects God's divine nature4)The inclusion of the feminine divine was driven by two burning questions: a. Where are the women in the grand, ancient story of our beginnings, and b. What good is a doctrine if we never speak of it or seek greater light and knowledge concerning it? 5) Her hope is that her "offering of imagination" will prompt others to examine the boundaries of their own paradigms and consider new possibilities6) Heavenly Mother “will be unveiled again” This is a unique and insightful podcast focused on a book (which is a beautiful poem) that is a reimagining of the entire scope of existence, centering the feminine divine and the preeminence of love. I learned so much from Sharlee and encourage our listeners to read her book and share it with others. Links: Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1961471205/Barnes and Noble: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1147162041
My friend Sara Sumsion (RM, Age 30, YSA ward leader, getting a master’s degree in marriage and family therapy) joins us to share her unique story. Sara starts with her good father’s decision to leave the Church and her initial judgements about his decision. She then shares her difficult mission experience including spiritual abuse that nearly broke her and led to her considering leaving the Church. Sara talks about finding the grey and her intentional decision to stay in the Church, her reconstructed testimony, and her desire to help others find hope and healing. Sara talks about her road to become a vocal LGBTQ Ally including her Instagram post of her non-binary friend. Sara talks about helping everyone feel welcome in their YSA ward and also practicing boundaries/good communication when interacting with less active members. Sara concludes with her Mother’s Day lesson including a focus on Heavenly Mother and helping all women feel good and welcome (regardless of their current status or feelings regarding motherhood). If you are working to stay in the Church, Sara’s journey may help you. And if you are looking for more insights about how to teach/organize a positive meeting on Mother’s Day, Sara suggestions may help you. And if you are looking to create a safer place in your Ward, Sara’s story may help you. Thank you, Sara, for your work to create Zion. I learned so much from you. You give me hope for the future of our Church and world. I see the example of Jesus reflected in your ministry. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sara.sumsion IG: @sar_assumption/
My dear friends, Susan Hinckley and Cynthia Winward, (co-founders of the “At Last She Said It Project” which includes their groundbreaking podcast—with over 200 episodes and 2+ million downloads) join us to talk about their new book. Their book (published by Signature Books) invites readers to consider new perspectives, be open to changing our minds, and how growth can be uncomfortable—and how this leads to helping more fellow Latter-day Saints feel valued, welcome and how to have more belonging. The book helps us better understand patriarchy within the church and how this can cause pain for both women and men—and what we can do in our area of influence to improve. The book also addresses many other topics within the church to help us build Zion including: DisciplingObedienceFearRepentanceWorthinessCynthia's Personal Essay: “Works for Me”Susan's Personal Essay: “Metamorphosis”Speaking UpWhy I Wear a Cross I’ve learned so much from these two good women about better ministering to others. I wish their podcast and book existed decades ago—it would have helped me be a better husband, father, church member—and better lift (versus sometimes add) to the burdens of others. I encourage everyone to read/share their book. Thank you, Susan and Cynthia. You two are awesome. Links: Book and podcast: atlastshesaidit.org/
My friend Elder Jax Smith (multi-racial, from Highland Utah, Age 25) joins us to bravely share his story: Middle school: “My personal hell”Coming out to older siblingsSuicidal ideation, hospitalization, “choosing to stay”Decision to serve a mission/called to Alabama BirminghamReason for ending his mission and leaving the ChurchRole of good people (like Elder Jenkins) to help him return to ChurchDifficult YSA experience attending with his boyfriend—left the Church for a second timeFocusing on Jesus and attending Baptist ChurchBishop’s (also his uncle) invitation to attend his YSA WardCalling that led him to full activity, becoming a temple worker, and going back on a missionOthers (like Elder Wright and Brother Monson) that helped him accept himself and feel like he belongedNavigating church generated pain/trauma/difficult experiencesPowerful testimony of Jesus Christ and His power to heal This is another super powerful/brave podcast from a remarkable Latter-day Saint. Thank you Elder Jax Smith for being on the podcast. You are a remarkable disciple of Christ, and your story helps others walking difficult roads—and it helps the rest of us have more insights to help everyone feel like the belong and better create Zion. You are a good man! Links: Jax Smith Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556810127958Jax Smith Instagram: @smith_3_55_
My friend Leon Crandell (lives in Snowflake AZ, cosmetologist, Brazil RM) joins us to bravely share his story: Survivor of sexual abuseTurning to substance abuse to deal with/escape the shame of sexual abuseLater abused by a doctor on his mission—and the shame of wondering why meConcluding being a victim of sexual abuse isn’t why he is gayGetting married (married for 27 years) and not really addressing his sexual orientationGradually opening up to his wife—and their road to stay in their marriage and the ChurchFinding community of others walking this roadAsking Heavenly Father “What do you think of me”? Super helpfulPowerful (and healing) experience in a conversation with JesusKurt Francom’s impactful book “Is God Disappointed in Me”Hope instead of shame/fear This is a super powerful, vulnerable, and insightful podcast to help listeners see the role of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ to help us find more hope/peace in our lives—and how our unique differences help us reach others—helping to create Zion. You are super brave Leon. Your courage to be honest gives hope to others. You are a good man! Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Leon’s podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/coming-untwo-christ/id1752406845Leon’s webpage: cominguntwochrist.com/Leon on Facebook: www.facebook.com/leon.crandellLeon on Instagram: @cominguntwochristKurt Francom’s book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CT67RS86Dr Robinson: www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9jO9iMbm5U
My friend Darice (married mother of four including a transgender daughter, Gather Conference Director) joins us to share her story including:1) Proximity to LGBTQ people—seeing their goodness/gifts/kindness 2) Being uncomfortable with the 2015 policy statements—"didn’t align with my spiritual integrity” 3) Being called as Stake Relief Society President and her work to help everyone feel loved and that they belong—including having a Stake inclusion specialist 4) Supporting her transgender daughter and her upcoming marriage to her non-binary partner 5) Living in “complexity” and how that gives her more perspective/tools to help others 6) Getting involved with Gather 7) Upcoming Gather Conference on June 27-28, 2025 Thank you, Darice, for your work to bless so many lives. I encourage everyone to listen to Darice’s story and attend Gather. Thank you for all your work (and many others with Gather) to build Zion and help everyone feel loved and welcome.Links: Gather Conference: thegatherconference.regfox.com/gather-conference-worldwide-2025Gather Conference Registration: thegatherconference.regfox.com/gather-conference-worldwide-2025Lift and Love Support Groups: www.liftandlove.org/meetingDarice on Instagram: @dariceauston
My friend Helen Anderson (Lives in Utah County, BYU Grad, Mother of 4, LGBTQ Ally) joins us to share her story:· Exposure to gay people in the 70’s and 80’s—becoming supportive· Carol Lynn Pearson’s book· Documentary called “TransMormon” and how it helped prepare her· Journey to love, see, understand, and accept her transgender daughter· Pronouns· OK to cry· High school graduation (great experience)· University of Utah welcome/housing (great experience)· Have a transgender/non-binary child is not a sad tragedy—but can become a beautiful family love storyHelen also talks about her new variety show called “Dear Mom: Celebrating Mothers of LGBTQIA+ Children” on May 10th (see show notes for more information). Thank you, Helen, for your courage to come on the podcast and share your beautiful family love story. I’m grateful for your voice and experiences to help us better support the transgender people in our lives—for they are wonderful. Links:Variety Show on May 10th, 2025: https://www.werehereutah.com/dearmom Helen on Instagram: @helenandersoncomedy
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 * My friend Lucas Batista (grew up in Brazil, lived in Spain, RM/Chile) joins us to share his story including:1) Growing up knowing he was like his gay mom (and all the negative comments about gay people)2) Shame and “always wearing a mask”3) Temple helping him feel less shame—never felt rejected by God4) Great mission experience in Chile—came out to both Mission Presidents5) Suicidal ideation after his mission—role of friends to give hope—including one who said “It’s OK—I will be with you to the end”6) Letter to “future me”7) Not broken, coming on the podcast to reduce shame and give others hopeThank you, Lucas, for your courage to come on the podcast and share your unique story. You are super brave. You story will help others to feel less shame, more acceptance, and hope for the future. You are a good man who has bless many lives. Our church and world are a better place with Lucas Batista part of it! Links: Lucas on Instagram: @luccabattisttaLucas on Facebook: facebook.com/lucas.silvabatista.14Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Lyric Kinard (lives in Raleigh, married mother of 5 including queer kids, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to share her story around creating support groups and an invitation to attend Gather Southeast (in Raleigh, NC) on Sept 20, 2025). Lyric talks about: Principles for starting a support groupEngaging local leadersImportance of speaking up and having a second witnessCreating safe spaces at churchGather SoutheastWhy she wears her transgender scarf to ChurchBeing like Jesus Thank you, Lyric, for being on the podcast and all your work (along with many others in your area) to help LGBTQ Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, loved and needed. It is people like you that give me hope. You are making a huge difference for good. Links: Gather Southeast: www.gathersoutheast.com/Gather Southeast Newsletter: www.gathersoutheast.com/f/gather-se-newsletterGather Southeast Instagram: www.instagram.com/gather_southeast/Gather Southeast Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61563441041765Lyric’s e-mail: lyric@lyrickinard.comResource Files at “Supporting LGBTQ Latter-day Saints”: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend McKay Mayes (from Wyoming, London South RM, Age 29, Lives/Works in Utah County) joins us to share his story including:Always believing/hoping he would be fixed and be straightGreat mission experience—but still gayNot fitting the typical gay stereotypeDating and trying to make it work with a woman—wanted to follow God’s plan—super painful not finding a way to make that possibleFeeling “left behind” as straight friends got marriedFor six years, committed to being single in line with the Church’s celibate guidance—leading to the darkest/most painful moments of McKay’s lifeNew prayers (instead of “fix me”)Finding hope, acceptance of being gay, and purpose in his new pathRelationship with the Church and hopes for changesFirst coming out experience (super helpful) I continue to be amazed by the brave/mature/thoughtful people who share their stories on the podcast—with McKay joining that group—and his desire to give hope to others walking a similar road.Thank you, McKay, for all you have done to bless/help the lives of others (mission, EFY counselor, etc) and continue to do so with your courage to be out/honest and be on the podcast to give hope to others. You are a good man with a great life ahead of you!Links: McKay on Instagram: @mckay_mayes McKay on Facebook: www.facebook.com/mckay.mayes.7Obsolete vs current teachings: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mxcr5fo9rxl29by4wvc9q/Obsolete-and-Current-Teachings-LGBTQ.docx?rlkey=e1dbc3iffua4nwwscpg911uzw&dl=0
My friend Barbara Higinbotham (married mother of 5 living children including a non-binary child, transgender daughter, and gay son; early 60s; recently returned in early 2025 from serving a senior mission with her husband Dan). Barbara shares: Assumptions should be challenged, being uncomfortable leads to growthBeing LGBTQ doesn’t make someone a predatorWhy she chooses to honor the new names (Ben and Heather) and her non-binary child and transgender daughter including updated Christmas stockingsFocus on the temple (current temple workers) and our Savior to find revelation, hope, and peace—and anchoring in the gospel of Jesus Christ.Trusting/believing her childrenWe are not better church members by distancing ourselves from the LGBTQ people in our livesProcessing unkind comments in Church and on social mediaManaging grief with changing expectations Thank you, Barbara, for being on the podcast. I wish I could have listened to you 10-20 years ago—your insights would have helped to be a better disciple of Christ. I encourage everyone to listen/share this episode, as we work to “hasting the work” by “gathering Isreal”—which includes our LGBTQ friend, family and church members. Links: Barbara on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/barbara.morrellhiginbotham
My friend my friend Cort Watson (construction management major/BYI-Idaho, from Tremonton, Arcadia CA RM, former FSY counselor) joins us to bravely share his story including:Navigating feeling different, not sure believed in Church, deciding to serve a missionComing out first to his junior companion and then his Mission President (both good experiences)Processing pain (and subsequent anger to God) about being gayDeep spiritual experiences (and role of the temple) to “thank God for making me this way”Being gay is part of the God’s plan for me and not a punishmentCome out on social media in 2024 to help othersBeing laser focus on Christ to provide hope, help and healingRole of the temple to feel God’s love and directionLife at BYI-Idaho as a gay student (positive experience)Thank you, Cort, for your courage to share your story with others. Your courage/vulnerability helps others that they too are loved by God and needed in our church community. Thanks for helping us build Zion. You are a good man. Links: Cort on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cortland.watson.96 Cort on Instagram: @wat.cort_ Cort’s e-mail: cort.watson27@gmail.com
My friend Eric Hales (a highly recommended therapist, gay, mid-30s, former Latter-day Saint, licensed in Utah, Idaho, Nevada, and Virginia) joins us to talk about his work supporting the queer and Latter-day Saint community. Eric starts by sharing some of his story and then talks about key concepts that promote healing, including: Creating safetyHealing from woundsSelf-compassionAddressing shame-based trauma and C-PTSDWhat to look for in a therapistUnderstanding and addressing numbing behaviors This is one of the finest and most insightful podcasts we’ve done with a therapist. I learned so much from Eric. If you want to better understand how a therapist can help you (or others), want better tools to support others, or are queer and looking for more hope, self-love, and healing, please listen to Eric’s podcast and share it with others. This is the kind of episode I wish I had heard before becoming a parent and a local church leader. When we know better, we do better. Thank you, Eric, for being on the podcast and for your work to help others find hope, healing, and peace. Your work is so needed in our community. Links: Eric’s e-mail: ericjhales@gmail.com Eric’s practice: https://meetmonarch.com/therapist/eric-jeffrey-hales-lcsw-murray-ut More about Eric: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/eric-hales-murray-ut/936761Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Kelsey Wells (RM, from Idaho, lives in Utah County, former EFY counselor and seminary teacher, active in her ward) joins us to bravely share her story. Kelsey starts with coming out to her mother (senior year of high school) and the good/difficult experiences—including how not talking about it brings shame. Kelsey talks about wanting to service a mission but putting that on pause because she realized she was not doing that for the right reasons. Kelsey shares what changed and how she ended up serving. Kelsey bravely talks about getting engaged to a man and how that engagement ended a few weeks before the wedding. Kelsey talks about ignoring red flags because of her desire to get married and have a family. Kelsey talks about being in the Temple and a sealer sharing some thoughts that gave her clarity and courage to end the engagement. Kelsey talks about not wanting to be alive—but finding hope in Christ, therapy and the Questions From the Closet podcast. Kelsey also talks about “fear is where Satan thrives”. Kelsey talks about why she stays a member of the Church, joy in being a EFY councilor and teaching seminary, and helping others find hope. Thank you Kelsey for being on the podcast. You are so emotionally and spiritually mature. You are also so brave. You being open helps others walking this road and helps us better create Zion. Links: Instagram: Instagram: @kelswayan Email: behappi208@gmail.com Current Teaching versus Obsolete Teachings: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mxcr5fo9rxl29by4wvc9q/Obsolete-and-Current-Teachings-LGBTQ.docx?rlkey=e1dbc3iffua4nwwscpg911uzw&dl=0
My friend Marley Orton (married mother of three, mid-50s, Utah County, real estate broker/hair stylist, RM) joins us to share her story of love and acceptance of her non-binary child CC. Marley starts with the pregnancy of this child knowing it was twins and having that confirmed via ultrasound. However, that changed with “Vanishing Twin Syndrome” where she ended up with one child.Marley talks about CC being sensitive, focused on those left out, sweet and a great sibling to their younger brother Zac. Marley talks about CC coming out as pansexual at age 16 and the body dysphoria they felt and feeling ostracized—especially at church. Marley talks about—with the help of a great therapist—CC understanding the identity that resonated with them: non-binary—and how CC's mental health and hope for the future improved with the process of transitioning.Marley talks about discovering “Chimera Twin Syndrome” and how this could bring a more scientific understanding to CC being non-binary. Marley talks about being the mother of three wonderful children—all whom have stepped away from the church—and what they are doing in their family to stay close together and love each other. Marley talks about how we can improve church culture—including being open to new perspectives so that more feel loved, welcomed, and needed.I learned so much from Marley. If you are open to learning more to support queer Latter-day Saints and improve church culture, I encourage you to listen to Marley’s podcast and share it with others. Thank you, Marley, for being on the podcast! And thank you CC for the great person you are and allowing your story to be shared.Links: E-mail: marleysellshomes@gmail.com.Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marley.ortonInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/marley.orton/
My friend Matt Higinbotham (RM from Tempe Arizona, returned Feb 2024, from Utah County, BYU student) joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Matt talks about his early years figuring out his sexuality and his journey to realize (and then accept) he is gay. Matt talks about the role of prayer, scripture study, and temple attendance to help feel God’s love, acceptance, hope for his future and the desire to serve/help others (a big reason he did the podcast).Matt talks about his desire to serve a mission and how that hope eventually became a reality—all while being open with his church leaders about his sexual orientation. Matt talks about the positive and painful experience of being gay and on a mission. Some the negative ones were around gay jokes (missionaries and members) and some of the positive ones were where being open about being gay allowing him to help others know they too could feel God’s love, and acceptance. Matt talks about how navigating a variety of experience (including Church leader talks that were painful), being an EFY counselor (and teaching the Family Proclamation), seeing the Y lit up in pride colors, unfairness (compared to straight members) of being gay (and not having a path to have a marriage and still fully participate in the Church). I learned so much from Matt—a thoughtful, spiritually mature, deeply insightful, and remarkable man. You are a good man Matt with a wonderful future. Thank you for blessing so many people on your mission and doing this podcast which will give others hope—and help us better love and support each other as we build Zion. Links: Matt on Facebook: www.facebook.com/matthew.higinbotham.5 Matt on IG: @matthiggy134 Matt’s e-mail: matt.higgy234@gmail.com
My friend Trevor Schoeny (RM from Lubbock Texas, returned Dec 2024, from Virgina/DC, BYU student, Age 23) joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Trevor starts with realizing he is gay and then coming out to his parents after his senior year (positive experience). Trevor talks about stepping away from the Church (which helped him eventually come back to the Church) and his brave (and somewhat surprising) decision to serve a mission (and walk back into a place of trauma)—because he wanted to help others heal from pain and find love. Trevor (who reads scriptures throughout the podcast) talks about all the things he learned and taught on his mission including: Fear has no place in the Gospel His crucible moment when he decided to stay on his mission No one should feel they are not celestial material Importance of vulnerability* Finding our story in the scriptures I was so moved listening to and learning from Trevor—a great man who was been through the “winepress” representing the difficult road of a queer Latter-day Saint—and his ability to help others find hope, belonging and peace. You are a man of great courage. You are a good man, Trevor. I’m honored to have you on the podcast. Everyone in the Church needs to hear like Trevor as we build Zion. Please listen and share this episode. Links: Trevor on FB: https://www.facebook.com/trevorschoeny Trevor on IG: https://www.instagram.com/trevorschoeny/ Trevor’s e-mail: trevor@schoeny.com
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 *My friends Jake and Joe Sharp (identical twins, age 24, from Mesa Arizona, RMs) join us to talk about their life work to help others choose to stay, turn to positive coping behaviors, finding hope and the role of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal from pain. Jake and Joe start with the story of losing their younger brother Sam to suicide at age 16 while they were on their missions. They talk about the goodness of Sam—as well as the difficult mental health challenges (OCD, toxic perfection, etc) that Sam faced, and all their family was doing to help him find hope. They talk about the heartbreaking pain, anger, and guilt they faced—and how Christ and therapy has helped them heal. They talk about unhealthy coping behaviors to deal with the pain (pornography use and overeating) and how they learned better tools/behaviors helping to be in a better place. They talk about shame and how that is Satan’s greatest tool to separate us from the love of our Heavenly Parents and the Savior—and how shame has no place in the gospel of Jesus Christ. They talk about the importance of vulnerability, therapy, fitness, doing a “forgive fast” for ourselves, we are not broken, and our Savior to give hope/peace. If you are suicidal, Jake and Joe’s story will help you. We all invite you to stay. If you are working through grief of losing someone to suicide, their story will help you. If you are working to solve porn use (or better tools to help others), their story will help you. Thank you, Jake and Joe, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. Thank you for your courage to talk about these subjects to give others hope. You are good men doing many hope/healing in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Jake and Joe’s Instagram and TikTok: @jdoufit Their Mom’s Podcast (Pam Sharp): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fight-hard-love-much/id1615231547
My friend Dr. Matthew L Harris (Historian, Colorado State University) joins us to talk about his powerful new book called “Second-Class Saints: Black Mormons and the Struggle for Racial Equality”— a fifteen-year labor of love. In Matt’s book (which was a powerful read for me), he draws on never-before-seen private papers of LDS apostles and church presidents—including Spencer W. Kimball to help us understand the complexity of ending the ban—something that President Kimball considered long before becoming Church President. Matt talks about why the ban started, who started it, how it became official doctrine for decades, and what shifted to cause church leaders to end the ban. Matt also talks about why ending the ban didn’t end racist teachings about black people—how all those prior teachings have now been refuted—but still might exists in our culture. Matt discusses key questions like was the ban doctrine or policy? Was it “just not time yet to end the ban”? And other important questions. Matt also talks about the importance of proximity by senior church leaders to those hurt by the ban and how those stories/experience changed hearts and were key to considering lifting it. Matt also shares insights on possible parallels to the priesthood ban and the experience of LGB Latter-day Saints who may also feel like “second-class saints”. I learned so much from Matt’s book and loved having him on the podcast. I encourage everyone to read his book and then consider what each of us can do to better support those of the margins. Links: Matt’s book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/019769571X Matt’s webpage: https://matthewlharris.org/
My friend Richard Hanks (mid 60s, retired business executive, active Latter-day Saint/former Mission President) joins us to talk about his biography of his father Elder Marion D. Hanks (beloved general authority—called at age 31—who lived from 1921-2011) in his book called “To Be a Friend of Christ: The Life of Marion D. Hanks.” Richard talks about his father’s unique approach to the gospel and his work—focused on following Christ—advocating for: increasing the church's humanitarian efforts, Christian service by full-time missionaries, acceptance of those on the fringes, the creation of singles wards, combining High Priests and Elders quorums, adapting garments to local climates, civil marriage before sealings, a kinder and more merciful approach to repentance, and a strong/vocal desire to end the priesthood ban—all while being deeply committed to the Church and supportive of its leaders. Richard talks about key areas of his father’s ministry including “aggressive Christianity versus aggressive proselytizing”; “souls versus statistics ”; and “this is the only true church/others are wrong" versus "The more excellent way.” He further talks about his father’s work to focus the mission of the Church on Christ, bring the Christus to Temple Square, teaching faith over dogma and certitudes, and principles to help those with legitimate concerns stay in the Church. I was always aware of and grateful for the ministry of Elder Hanks, but it wasn’t until becoming familiar with Richard’s book about his father, that I realized how unique, progressive, and needed was his ministry in the Church, all he accomplished, and the many lives he blessed being laser focused on helping people "Come unto Christ."If you are looking for hope for the future of the Church and how your contributions are needed, I encourage you to read Richard’s book. Thank you, Richard, for making this book possible, and for your work to create Zion.Links:Richard’s book at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560854723Contacting Richard: RichDHanks@gmail.com
My friend Hailey Kynaston (Anaheim California RM, BYU-I marriage and family studies major, grew up in Davis County) bravely joins us to share her story. Hailey starts with her journey coming to terms with her sexual orientation during her high school years, dating girls secretly, as well as dating boys. Hailey talks about her journey to attend her YSA ward, working to gain a testimony and ultimately serving a successful mission. Hailey talks about the transformative experiences on her mission that helped her develop a deeper relationship with Christ, find more hope/peace, and clarity about her future—including keeping her covenants and hopes to marry a man in the temple. Hailey shares her post-mission coming out post (super powerful—with a focus on her primary identity as a daughter of loving Heavenly Parents—insights about our Savior—and hopes for her future). Hailey talks about the support she feels at North Star and its upcoming conference (Feb 27 – March 1st) and the YSA group she is leading. We both invite you to consider attending North Star this year (see show notes for more information). Thank you, Hailey, for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story. You are brave and courageous—and you being open helps so many. Links: Hailey’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/hailey.kynaston.33 Hailey’s Instagram: @hailey_kyn Hailey’s e-mail: haileykyn22@gmail.com North Star Conference: northstarconference.org
My friend Candice Clark (mother of 5, lives in Iowa City, Iowa) joins us to share her story of her journey to love, understand, and accept her queer kids—and the blessings of using their preferred pronouns. Candice is open about the sometimes choppy road to using preferred pronouns—but talks about how that brought improved relationships and more love, open communication, and genuine family unity and understanding. She shares ten messages a queer person might hear when we use their pronouns:You know yourself better than I know you.I would rather change the way I speak about you than hurt you repeatedly.Your sense of safety is important to me.Your identity is real and should be acknowledged.I want to teach everyone around me to respect you.Being uncomfortable is fine if I avoid being offensive.I can hear you talking and I am really listening.Being who you truly are is not an inconvenience to me.I would prefer if you kept being honest with me.I am an ally, a friend, and someone you can trust.Candice talks about her journey to encourage extended family to also use preferred pronouns—a journey that has been very difficult at times and required Candice to extend skills of grace, listening, and bridge building. Candice talks about how it is a journey worth undertaking. Candice talks about her podcast “No Empty Chairs: For Moms Whose Kids Don’t Come to Church,” becoming a life coach, and her role in and the purpose of the Facebook group “Bridges: Support for Latter-day Saint Parents of Adult Children”. If you are looking for a real-world story of better supporting the queer people in your life, please listen to Candice’s podcast and connect with her resources. Thank you, Candice, for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Your work is so needed in our community! Links: Candice’s web page: candiceclarkcoaching.com/ Candice’s FB Page: www.facebook.com/candiceclarkcoaching Candice’s Podcast: candiceclarkcoaching.com/?page_id=78 Bridges FB Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1139458306236720 FB Group for LDS Parents with LGBTQ children: www.facebook.com/groups/WalkWithYouLDSParentsOfLGBTQ
My friends Emilie Call (married mother of 4) and Ashlie Sanders (married mother of 3) join us to talk about their podcast they founded, and co-host called “That’s Church Podcast” which builds bridges of understanding to other faiths (and people of no faith) and to better support people within our own faith (such as LGBTQ folks). They also share their personal stories navigating complicated topics in our faith and how their work has helped them stay in our Church. Emilie and Ashlie talk about the next event at Compass Gallery in Provo, Utah on March 8th(National Women’s Day)—speakers and purpose-an awesome event that I encourage you to attend. Also, Ashlie talks about the IG account (@the_nuanced_mormon) to explore diverse spiritual journeys. If you are looking for two thoughtful voices in our faith community doing much needed bridge-building work, please listen to this episode and connect with their podcast and consider attending their event on March 8th Thank you, Emilie and Ashlie, for being on the podcast. You two give me hope. Links : That’s Church Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thats-church/id1711856369 That’s Church IG account: @thatschurchpodcast A That’s Church Experience - Divine Feminine & Women Empowerment tickets: tinyurl.com/empower2025
My friend Liberty Hansen (age 20, lives in Spanish Fork Utah, Richmond Virginia RM) joins us to share her story of returning home from her mission after two months because of a desire to improve our culture to help others walking this road. Liberty talks about how much she loved missionary work—but suffered from panic attacks and feelings of suicide—and feelings of drowning. She talks about difficult experience on her mission where she didn’t feel safe or supported. An exception to that was one of her companions—still a dear friend—and all this companion did to help her. Liberty talks about coming home and the support she received from her family and ward. She talks about how she handled the airport, her first week back in the Ward, her homecoming talk and the good/not helpful comments. Liberty also talks about why she stays in the church—even though she feels so level of being let down by the Church. Liberty talks about a new Instagram account she started (see show notes) where other early release missionaries share their stories. If you are an early release missionary or working to better support someone walking this road, please listed to Liberty’s story and connect with her Instagram. Thank you, Liberty, for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are awesome. Links: Liberty’s Instagram: @finding.the.purpose
My friend Hayden Clark (age 30, married, father of one, lives in Mesa Arizona, former Utah Dixie State University football player, Phoenix firefighter and paramedic, stake high councilor), joins us to share his journey to understand and solve his porn use. Hayden talks about his early exposure to porn (age 7) and how this became a coping mechanism to deal with life. Hayden talks about not opening up to his wife about his porn use before their marriage—but finally having the courage to talk about this once married. Once Hayden opened up to his wife about his porn use, that opened the door to do the needed work to solve it. Hayden talks about therapists (including Sara Brewer’s program) which helped him understand his porn use was really a coping mechanism (or “buffer”) to deal with/escape the challenges of life. With that reframing, Hayden talks about the things he did to improve himself to be closer to sobriety. In addition to good therapy, Hayden also talks about the role of The Atonement of Jesus Christ and how reading the Book of Mormon helped him. Hayden also talks about why his wife and him started a podcast, why he is talking about this at church (including his high council talks)—all because of his desire to help others. If you are working to end porn use (or other unwanted coping behaviors like overeating, drugs/alcohol, caffeine, excessive social media use, etc) please listen to Hayden’s story. It will help you. And if you are looking to help others, Hayden’s story will help you better help others. Thank you, Hayden, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. Respect. You are helping so many! Links: Hayden and his wife Dylan‘s podcast called: This Is Livin’ : podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-is-livin/id1770163904 Sara Brewer: centerforovercoming.com/ Other Richard Ostler solving porn podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/solving-porn-useRichard Ostler chapter on solving porn: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nrfb3jzluzrj2sp8ihrfo/Chapter-4-Ending-Pornography-Use.-Listen-Learn-and-Love-Improving-Latter-day-Saint-Culture.pdf?rlkey=dqxcrtvxcmu6u3ppkig3kh82p&dl=0
My friends Clint and Melinda Mueller (live in Litchfield Park, Arizona; BYU grads; forensic engineering business owners) join us to share their story of having two gay sons (four sons total, sons #2 and #3 are gay—age 29 and 26 respectively—both returned missionaries). Clint talks about the long road (started in 2016) when their first son came out—and all the changed perspective needed to better support their sons (going from “not on my watch will I have a gay son” to loving/supporting them). Clint talks about deeply spiritual experiences (including talking with other gay people in his life) that helped him do better. Melinda talks about personal revelation including “your job is to love them; my job is to save them.” Clint and Melinda talk about the shock of when their second son came out following his mission—and how they were better equipped to love and support him. Clint also shares what they are doing in their LDS circle to help local leaders/members better support LGBTQ members. If you are an LDS parent new to the road of having a queer child (or be better prepared for this possibility), or a local leader, please listen to the Mueller’s story. It is a powerful story of growth, pain, honest communication, keeping the family circle together, and creating a beautiful family love story. Thank you, Clint and Melinda, for being on the podcast and giving us better tools/gospel insights to support the LGBTQ people in our lives. Links: Clint/Melinda Mueller’s e-mail: muellakites@muellakites.com
My friends Dr. Ben Schilaty, Clare Dalton, and Liz Macdonald join us to talk about the rebranding of the powerful podcast “Questions From The Closet” to “All Out in the Open.” They share how the expanded scope includes once-a-month hosts including Iese Wilson focusing on international queer Latter-day Saints, Clare Dalton on how the scriptures provide principles to help queer Latter-day Saints, Liz Macdonald and Michael Soto talking about community building, and Ben Schilaty and Charlie Bird talking about how to be more open with ourselves and others. They also talk about the Gather/All Arizona conference in Mesa (March 29, 2025), the Gatherings monthly scripture curriculum, the annual Gather Conference in Provo (June 26-28, 2025), and a new conference called Belong (a conference for queer youth and youth allies—born out of the successful Gather track at the 2024 conference). If you want to feel hope in the LDS/LGBTQ space, please listen to this episode and (more importantly) listen to “All Out in the Open” podcast. Ben, Clare, and Liz are doing such great work and represent the hundreds of people in this space working to “expand the borders” of Zion where more feel loved, needed, and true belonging. Their principled approach gives us all better ideas on what we can do in our circle of influence to better support queer Latter-day Saints. Thank you, Ben, Clare, Liz for being on the podcast and all your great work! Links: All Out in the Open Podcast: alloutintheopen.org/ Gather curriculum: gather-conference.com/gatherings Gather Arizona March 29, 2025: www.allarizona.org/conferences (registration not live yet) Belong Youth Conference June 26-28, 2025:www.belongyouthconference.org to receive registration info as it becomes available. Follow @belongyouthconf on Instagram. Gather June 26-28, 2025: www.gather-conference.com/ (registration not live yet)
My friend Paul Peterson (married father of 3, lives in Arkansas, Master’s in Marriage and Family Therapy from Valdosta State University, owns/runs his own practice) joins us to talk about how we can know we are whole/perfect now and we are always loved by God—and tools to absolutely accept this. Paul talks about how this helps us to “become”—not from a feeling of shame/brokenness—but from a position of strength, fully understanding our identity as a beloved child of God. Paul brings his personal experience, academic training, theological understanding, and professional experience to make this a reality in our lives. I was deeply moved (and calmed) listening to Paul. I encourage everyone to check out this episode and read Paul’s book—I believe it will help you and give you more tools to help others. Thank you, Paul, for being on the podcast and your much needed work in our community. It is good people like you that give me hope. Links: Paul’s website: www.paulwpeterson.com/ Paul’s book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0DN5TY2C4
My friend Oakley Roberts (from Payson Utah, RM from Liberia Africa) joins us to share his story. Oakley talks about knowing he was different since age 12, his high school life (including his mantra “if they wanted to be in my life, they were welcome”) and coming out a bisexual over the phone to his sister while on his mission (later coming out as gay to his mother). Oakley talks about the curse/punishment he felt from God for being gay—and the pain/shame of that initial conclusion. Oakley talks about reaching out to people for help and how coming out and being authentic improved his feelings about himself. Oakley talks about the powerful spiritual experience in the canyon east of Cedar City while in college with the personal revelation that Oakley’s sexual orientation (like all of Oakley’s attributes) are divine in nature and Oakley is created as intended—a 180 degree shift from this earlier feelings about being cursed. Oakley talks about his visit with his Bishop (super helpful) and his supportive mother (“I trust you Oakley” and “whoever you bring home, I will accept them”). I am so impressed with Oakley—his spiritual maturity, his emotionally resilience, and his deep acceptance of who he is—all at age 21. You have a great life ahead of you Oakley and you will continue to give hope to others and help them feel God’s love. Honored to have you on the podcast. You are a good man. Links: Gather/Lift and Love: www.liftandlove.org/ FB group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Oakley’s Instagram: @_oakleyroberts
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 * My friend Kyle Dunshee (age 30, married father with new baby, suicide survivor) joins us to share his journey with mental health. Kyle starts with his journey with severe OCD/anxiety which led to a suicide attempt at age 10. Kyle talks about his great parents getting him help—including being institutionalized (helpful experience). Kyle also talks about self-harm and gives insights on why people engage in this behavior and how it is able to put this behind him. Kyle talks a Book of Mormon scripture story that gave him hope and his decision to serve a mission—but the painful/angry experience when he was denied this opportunity. Kyle talks about his pain, anger at the institutional Church, and the deeply spiritual experience in an empty movie theatre watching an R rated movie—a powerful experience where he felt the love of God and a desire to become more active in the Church. Kyle talks about why he decided to resubmit his mission papers and his call to serve in Portland Oregon. Kyle talks about how his mental health is on ongoing part of his life—and why it is (at times) a beautiful struggle. Kyle’s story is in his new book called “At the Bottom of Bountiful” (see show notes). I was so impressed with Kyle’s courage and vulnerability to share his story. It is a powerful story that helps others walking a similar road with mental health issues and those with difficult church experiences who want to stay in the church. I encourage everyone to listen to Kyle’s podcast and read his book so we have more insights to help ourselves and our friends/family working with mental health issues. You are a good man, Kyle. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Kyle’s book on Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0DQ8Z9RHH Grandpa Thomas Rogers Obituary: www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/thomas-rogers-obituary?id=55427103 Kyra Dunshee Podcast: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-293-krista-mortensen-and-kyra-dunshee-sisters-when-your-child-leaves-the-church
My friend long-time friend Dusty Bee (late 30s, RM, father of two sons/divorced, was in a same-sex marriage/excommunicated/now divorced, DJ/business owner, lives in Idaho) joins us to share his unique and powerful story. Dusty talks about knowing he was gay/different around 10, serving a mission (asking God to make him straight), marrying a women (while closeted), marrying to a man (married about 6 years—a marriage Dusty doesn’t regret and into a family he loves), being excommunicated (very painful experience), and then his decision (with a powerful spiritual experience on the Rome temple grounds) to get rebaptized (working with the same Stake President and their reconciliation after the difficult excommunication). Yes, Dusty is still gay—and talks about how he accepts/love himself, why he believes in the Church, how we can better support LGBTQ members, and the character of our Heavenly Parents—including Their deep love for ALL Their children. Dusty is not asking couples in same-sex marriages to follow his path—but rather the importance of helping LGBTQ members to write their own story (without agenda) and walking with them—leaving all judgement to our Savior. Dusty is one of the finest people I know. He has done a great job walking a nearly impossible road and his story helps other queer Latter-day Saints to find hope/perspective in their future—and parents/allies/local church leaders looking for insights on how to better love, understand, and support. I’m honored to have Dusty on the podcast. I encourage everyone to listen to and share his story and we work to expand the borders of Zion so more feel welcome and a deep feeling of belonging—as I believe we are a better people with our LGBTQ members with us.Links: Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Episode 797: Dr. Daniel Parkinson, Mentor to LDS Parents with LGBTQ Kids, New Book by Richard Ostler
My friend Nathan Kitchen (father of five, RM, dentist, mid-50s, in a same-sex marriage, author, powerful/thoughtful/mature voice in the queer LDS space) joins us to share some of this story and talk about his new book called “The Boughs of Love: Navigating the Queer Latter-day Saint Experience During an Ongoing Restoration.” Nathan talks about some of his personal story (including following church leader counsel as a gay Latter-day Saint young man to marry a woman) and how that marriage eventually ended. Nathan—who holds a deep belief in our Heavenly Parents—talks about scripture stories and gospel principles he used to navigate his life and how those apply to helping younger queer Latter-day Saints write their own story from a queer centric/Christ centered perspective. Nathan talks about why he wrote the book (“to cast hope”) to help queer Latter-day Saints and allies. Nathan also talks about the role of Affirmation and its worldwide efforts to help queer Latter-day Saints find their joy in the places that feel safe and healthy for them. Nathan also addresses other topics like the 2019 reversal of the November 2015 policy statements, cautions about gaslighting, how to heal/move on from pain/anger towards the Church, and offers advice for new allies. Thank you, Nathan, for being on the podcast and for your mature/thoughtful voice. I continue to learn from you. Thanks for all you are doing to bring us together as a part of the same human family. Nathan’s book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1961471159 Nathan’s book a BCC Press in their catalogue section: https://www.bccpress.org Affirmation: affirmation.org
My friend Tyler Bastian joins us to talk about Roots High School (located on a 5-acre farm)—a charter school for students who need a different experience—and may have fallen through the cracks. Tyler talks about why he started the school in 2015, its focus, their mission statement around “we love you”, and what they are doing in a unique and powerful way to help each student feel purpose and belonging. Tyler also talks about the role of farm animals in the education process, how it helps individual students, and how the farm environment brings down potential barriers between groups. Tyler also talks about we love others “not by words—but how we treat them”. Tyler also shares career advice for those who may not feel comfortable in a more traditional career path—by sharing his own story find his way to start a chapter school. Thank you, Tyler, for being on the podcast and all you are doing to give student more hope, purpose, and a feeling of belonging. I’m grateful for your work—and everyone at Roots High School—and honored to have you on the podcast. Root High School: https://www.rootshigh.org/ "Everything is Incredible" https://youtu.be/oqZ56-RMbNc?si=lkoMVhvGYvMbN29L "When I Need a Friend" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgkE23j_8Ss
My friend Emma Westwood (married mother of 5, nurse at Primary Children's Hospital, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about her gay little brother Collin Russell who died of an accidental overdose at the age of 23 in 2018. Emma talks about Collin coming out to her while a junior in high school and the difficult road he faced full of shame—which led to addictions to cope with the pain/shame—which led to his death by an accidental overdose on December 26th, 2018. Emma talks about her immensely gifted brother—full of light and hope—but how the shame/self-loathing of his sexual orientation dimmed his feelings about himself/his future. Emma talks about the decision that she and her husband Isaac made to name the Encircle Home in Heber City after Collin—now called The Collin Russell Home—and the positive role of Encircle to provide hope, connection, and a safe place for LGBTQ+ youth. And a wish that Collin has something like Encircle in his life. Emma (and her mother Laurie in an Instagram message) talk about the importance of helping our LGBTQ friends to have no shame for their sexual orientation and/or gender identity and how we should view every child of Heavenly Parents created as intended, with great worth, and needed members of society. Thank you, Emma, for being on the podcast and continuing to honor the good name and memory of your brother Collin. I am so sorry he is gone. I hope your story helps LGBTQ+ youth have more hope in their future and helps the rest of us to a better job of loving and supporting. Links: Emma’s Encircle Tribute to Collin: encircletogether.org/heber/collin-russell Collin Russell Encircle Tribute Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMi1VwVHLdo Encircle: encircletogether.org/Collin's Obituary: www.serenityfhs.com/obituaries/Collin-Russell-2/#!/Obituary Emma Westwood on Instagram: @emmathejoy
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Chloe Siegfried (she/her, gay, age 27, Salt Lake City native, deep belief in God/prayer) joins us to share her story of growing up LDS, coming out as gay, and then turning to alcohol and being in unhealthy relationships—partly to deal with her pain. Chloe talks about multiple suicide attempts, inpatient stays, and dark days. Chloe talks about prayer—one of the constants in her life and how she was finally able to stay sober on January 1st, 2023. It is a beautiful story of courage, prayer, family support and learning self-love. Chloe also talks about finding Ashlon and the beauty and health of that relationship and decided to get marriage in October of 2024. Chloe talks about her family support-including her younger brother Cole (the first person she came out to) officiating at the wedding. Chloe talks about her current work in a recover center helping others. Chloe is doing the podcast to talk to her younger self—and anyone else who is considering suicide who is full of pain, unable to love themselves and/or seeing no light at the end of the tunnel. Chloe is able to authentically say “it does get better”. In join with Chloe and plead with you to stay. If you are in a tough place or looking for a story to help others, please listen to Chloe’s story and share with others. Thank you for being on the podcast Chloe. You are a remarkable and brave woman. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Chloe’s Instagram: @chlo.siegfried Picture mentioned in the podcast of man considering jumping: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ts7u8ilxoh2f6kyhiw6h9/Man-Considering-Jumping.jpg?rlkey=uijx4mlrqz8oe0m9re5w39z66&dl=0
Our son Jake Ostler (Undergraduate Degree in Psychology, Master’s Degree in Social Work, Certificate in anti-human trafficking, LCSW, working with sexual violence survivors in over 10 different countries since 2016) joins us to talk about his new non-profit called International Protection Alliance (protectall.org/). Jacob also serves on the Board of the Utah Social Work Association. Jake, who is looking for donations and supporters for his new non-profit, talks about why he co-founded it, its mission (to stop online sexual exploitation and support survivors), and how you can help. Jake also talks about the myths and facts of sex trafficking and what parents can do to better help their kids to be safe. While you can’t donate to our podcast, I am inviting you to listen to this podcast and consider donating to Jake’s non-profit International Protection Alliance. I deeply believe in the work Jake is doing and his skills (clinical, organizational, financial) to run an effective non-profit with a mission to combat online sexual exploitation and help survivors heal—something that is so needed in our world. Thank you, Jake, for being on the podcast. Your parents deeply believe in you and the work you are doing. Honored that more can hear of your efforts. Jake welcomes any ideas for how you'd like to support the mission. Please reach out if you have ideas or want to be updated as they continue working and growing Links: Jake’s e-mail: jacob@protectall.org International Protection Alliance web stie: protectall.org International Protection Alliance Instagram: @intl.protect.all Facebook: www.facebook.com/ipa.protectall Jake’s Utah Clinical Practice: healingandhopeutah.com Jake’s LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-ostler-492716116
My friend Oliver Black (RM, UVU student, grew up in Utah County) joins us to share his story with gender dysphoria and how we can help trans/non-binary Latter-day Saints feel more welcome. Oliver delayed his transition so he could serve a mission (Montana—great experience—wanted to serve to help others), but has now been fully transitioned for over three years. He talks about the positive experiences in his mission and the role of spiritual promptings when coming out while in the field. Oliver then talks about the love/support he's received from his parents and local wards—and the spiritual peace he feels. He also discusses the difficult road transgender Latter-day Saints walk and what we can do to better support them. In this regard, Oliver has written “7 Ways Local Church Leaders Can Make Church Safe for Transgender Members” (link in show notes). This labor of love suggests ways (given the new handbook changes in Aug 2024) to help transgender members feel more safe, accepted, loved, and needed. He answers tender questions I felt impressed to ask him, giving answers that were deeply insightful and moving. Thank you, Oliver, for being on the podcast and helping us better understand that our Heavenly Parents' love all Their children. You are a good man with immense emotional/spiritual/intellectual maturity—gifts that you are using to help us create Zion and bless others. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Oliver’s “7 Ways Local Church Leaders Can Make Church Safe for Transgender Members” document: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j2r794h1v7zoodghc9h8x/Supporting-Trans-Members-Oliver-Black-Nov-2024.pdf?rlkey=exlksuqeqbux4hxwk9xi1bgwx&dl=0 Oliver’s editing website/writing portfolio: https://oliveraeblack.wixsite.com/about
My friend and mentor Pastor Stan Mitchell (familiar with and friend to Latter-day Saints) joins us to share his story of his changed heart/perspective about LGBTQ people that occurred during his ministry at Grace Point Church in Nashville. Stan (who attended Latter-day Saint services as a youth causing him to reframe his view of Jesus from vengeful to loving) talks about teachings of Jesus to love/support/accept LGBTQ folks—accept/validate their pain—and be open to what we can do better to support these good folks. Stan talks about his work with Christian parents who deeply love their queer kids, their Christian beliefs, and want what is best for their kids. He offers suggestions on how to navigate this road. Stan also talks directly to our queer friends to help them feel more love, acceptance, and hope for their future—and a plea for those considering suicide to stay. Stan brings his strong theological insights, soft heart, and 1000’s of visits with people walking this road to help others. Thank you, Stan, for your work in many faith traditions to help us better love and support our queer friends. You work has helped me. Thank you for being on the podcast. Links: Stan Mitchell’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/stan.mitchell.58
My friend Ben Higinbotham (mid-30s, BYU grad, non-binary, gay, active LDS, RM, they/he/she) joins us to share their story of self-acceptance and personal growth. Ben talks about their lifelong journey on this road of being gay and not feeling like they fit as a girl—including personal revelation, coming out to others, their strong relationship with God and finding peace/hope in their life. Ben also talks about shame—and how rather than curing them of their queerness, God is curing them of their shame. They talk about using the new name of Ben—including the backstory of the importance of that name. Ben talks about how being gay and/or non-binary is not a sin—but transitioning (even social transitioning) removes some church privileges, which can be difficult. Ben talks about how they are navigating that road and still participating in the Church. Ben loves Jesus and is trying to be more like Him—they strongly believe that it is possible to be both queer and Christian. Ben shares their love and musical testimony of Jesus through their arrangement of the hymn Amazing Grace. Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I was so impressed with your spiritual maturity, deep acceptance, and love for all people. I loved hearing some of the personal revelation you are receiving included how much God loves all his children. Thank you for the courage to share your story and help us better create Zion. You are awesome and our church community is better with you part of it. Links where people can find connection with LGBTQ+ people and allies: https://www.liftandlove.orghttps://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings
My friend Dr Tyler Johnson (former YSA Bishop, oncologist, clinical assistant professor at Stanford University) joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book called “When Church is Hard”. Tyler talks about how different testimony types (“I know”, “I believe”, “I hope”, etc) actually are a good thing—helps us extend the tent of Zion and bring more people to Christ. He also talks about how not every Latter-day Saint will have a “I know” testimony and how that person shouldn’t feel like a second-class citizen—but a valued/needed member of our community. In the second part of the book, Tyler also talks about supporting those (and us) when God is silent. In the third part of the book, Tyler shares better ministering skills to support those with church generated pain or the pain they see in others. He talks about what do we do (in ourselves and helping others) when our “hearts breaks at Church”. Tyler talks about specific examples and the importance of validating pain—and how pain is a good thing as it should create attention to a problem—which is exactly what our body is signaling with physical pain. If you are looking for a book to help you (or better help others) navigating difficult church experiences, please read Tyler’s book. It is a book I wish I had read decades ago before becoming a parent or having church leadership callings. Thank you, Tyler, for your great work in our community. You are someone who I deeply admire and respect. Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/product/6020541.html Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1639931821 Episode 591: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-589-tyler-johnson-navigating-complicated-church-topics-extended-the-tent-of-zion
Trigger warning: This episode mentions suicide. If you are experiencing suicidal thoughts and are in need of support, please reach out for help by calling 988. We care and we want you to be safe. My friend, Colette Dalton (she/her) is a queer licensed clinical social worker and certified sex therapist. Colette was my guest on an episode in 2021, so she catches us up on her journey in healing from trauma and living with depression and describes her more recent experiences with finding what she terms as "Queer Joy." Colette also talks about her work with clients at Hearten House in downtown Salt Lake City; she specializes in experiential therapy, reuniting the mind and body, which is particularly important for many queer individuals with LDS backgrounds, due to high rates of internalized homophobia. Colette also meets with clients virtually throughout Utah, Arizona, and Idaho. Colette teaches us about a fantastic, free, resource for queer individuals and allies that she has recently developed, called The Queer Joy Summit (Nov 17-19). The Queer Joy Summit brings together over 20 speakers over 3 days to talk about how they experience queer joy and how you can experience more queer joy in your life, as well. Details for how you can register for the summit are included below. I am grateful to Colette for her courage, and for the important role that her experience and expertise bring to many who are in need of support and kindness at vulnerable times in their lives. Links: Queer Joy Summit: queerjoysummit.comHearten House: heartenhouse.com Trevor Project and the study they did about queer kids not thinking they'll make it to 35: www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/perceived-life-expectancy-and-life-purpose-in-lgbtq-young-people/ Dr. Brené Brown on Joy: It's Terrifying | SuperSoul Sunday | Oprah Winfrey Network: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKV0BWSPfOw The power of vulnerability | Brené Brown | TED: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o
My friend Laurie Lee Hall (convert, former Director of LDS Temple Design and Construction, former Stake President, in her early 60s) joins us to share her story. Laurie Lee talks about her lifelong journey to manage her gender dysphoria and eventually “live as the woman I am”. Laurie Lee talks about the impossible choices she faced in this journey as a successful 20-year Church employee (the last part in the physical facilities department—one of her last projects being the expanded Provo MTC) and serving as a Stake President. That led to Laurie Lee’s Church employment ending and losing her Church membership. Laurie Lee talks about continuing (for a time) to participate in a new ward and being accepted in Relief Society—and the joy/belonging she felt. She talks about “living as Laurie Lee and the peace it brings me”, the new August 2024 handbook changes restricting transgender members, concerns about a “surveillance culture”—all of which are covered (and more) in her new book. Laurie Lee also talks about two meetings she and I shared around 2016/17 when I was trying to become a better ally by listening to my LGBTQ friends. Thank you, Laurie Lee, for being on the podcast, writing your book, bringing beauty to Latter-day Saint buildings/temples, choosing to stay alive, continuing to make the world a better place, and doing the best you can with impossible choices. This world is a better place because of Laurie Lee Hall. If you are looking to better understand/support our transgender friends, please listen to this episode and read her book. Thank you, Laurie Lee, for being on the podcast. You are awesome! Links:Amazon (kindle and book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DHY2YJ6C Signature Books: https://www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/dictates-of-conscience
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 * My friend Hunter Howell (Bio Medical Science Major, New Mexico/Farmington RM, Suicide Survivor) joins us to share his story. Hunter talks about his pre-mission years navigating his same-sex attraction, completing a mission (including falling in love with a companion), and being a BYU-Idaho student. At BYU-Idaho, Hunter faced the most difficult chapter in his life recognizing he wasn’t going to be able to marry a woman—leading to a suicide attempt—which led to a therapist that gave tools for Hunter to find hope in his future. Hunter talks about his deep relationship with his Heavenly Father and Savior and their love of/support for Hunter. Hunter gives honest advice to queer Latter-day Saints considering a mission and/or attending BYU-Idaho. If you are looking for hope, please listen to Hunter story. Thank you, Hunter, for being on the podcast, for how you are, and for your ability to bless/help others. This world is a better place with you part of it. Links: Hunter’s e-mail: Hdmhowell@gmail.com The Trevor Project: www.thetrevorproject.org Facebook Group to Minister to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Heather Prinz (lives in Fayetteville Arkansas, Speech Pathologist, Sexual Assault Survivor: Dr. Broadbent OBGYN lawsuit) bravely joins us to share her story. Heather talks about her sexual assault under the guise of medical care, discovering she was one of hundreds of other victims, and her journey through trauma and healing. Heather talks about how she felt at the time of the assault, her inability to accept what had happened, how the assault negatively impacted her life over the following 15 years, and her road (with the help of great therapy) to find healing. Heather also talks about her decision to come out publicly after 2 years as an anonymous 'Jane Doe' in the ongoing civil lawsuit against Dr. Broadbent and the community of support this group of survivors developed throughout their attempts to prevent this from happening to others. If you are a victim of sexual abuse or want better tools to help others, please listen to Heather’s podcast. Thank you, Heather, for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story—which will help so many. Links: @thatsnothealthcare - survivors' advocacy Instagram@heather.prinz - individual Instagram
My friend David Smurthwaite (married father of 4, gender expansive, active Latter-day Saints) joins us to share ideas on ministering to anyone struggling with the updated Church transgender policies. David starts with a brief recap of his own story (including talking to his Bishop at age 11 and opening up to his wife Marisa about 8 years ago). David then talks about the new policies—and what we can do to bear, mourn, and comfort each other given these difficult circumstances. David then answers questions (Resources/support groups, Should I come out?, Honoring personal revelation, etc).If you want to gain insight into someone (or yourself) experiencing a gender journey, please listen to David’s story and perspective. He offers powerful insights thanks to a deep understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and a long view of being on the road to discovering divine identity. Thank you, David, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. Thank you for all your contributions to our community. You give me hope and better tools to understand, love and support my transgender/non-binary friends. Links: David’s e-mail: dave.smurthwaite@gmail.com David’s Instagram: @davidsmurthwaite_writer David’s Instagram post on handbook changes: www.instagram.com/p/C_R83ooxkNE/ Church’s Transgender Guiding Principles PDF: assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/1d/76/1d76991533df11efbaeeeeeeac1ed7e66fbf94a7/general_handbook_guiding_principles_for_local_leaders.pdf Episode 254: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-254-david-smurthwaite-married-father-of-4-former-bishop-gender-dysphoria Life and Love Support Groups: www.liftandlove.org/meeting Monica Phillps on Facebook: www.facebook.com/monica.phillips.3597
My friend Dr. Kristine Coons (active Latter-day Saint, Internal Medicine Physician, came out to her wife in 2014, was on episode 699) joins us to share her journey/insights. Kristine brings a unique and needed perspective with her medical expertise in understanding gender dysphoria and the nuance of defining gender/biological sex—along with her own experience being transgender. Kristine also talks about how the new transgender policies negatively impact her (and many other transgender Latter-day Saints) causing her to feel demeaned and a second-class citizen—something Kristine doesn’t feel in the other circles where Kristine serves. If you are transgender—of are looking for insights to better support/mourn with our transgender friends—our hope is Kristine’s story will help you. Thank you, Kristine, for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Links: Kristine’s PowerPoint: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kg25yhqw5e0gqh7zf95bd/Listen-Learn-and-Love-Podcast-9-19-2024-Kristine-Coons-Podcast-Link.pdf?rlkey=z7ekmdp759yfwot2ui35h199f&dl=0 Kristine’s “Variations of Sexual Development Doc”: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/p1m6f6tby85xdqx7nrdbc/Variations-of-Sexual-Development-Kristine-Coons-Podcast-Link.pdf?rlkey=nnqsadgn3fl5fefiqj57wus29&dl=0 Kristine’s “History of Biological Sex Definitions”: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1rbi4brjroeo3qejhwrny/History-of-Biologic-Sex-Definitions-Kristine-Coons-Podcast-Link.pdf?rlkey=ritt2zucgp3ek7uwwl458ckq9&dl=0 Church’s Transgender Guiding Principles PDF: assets.churchofjesuschrist.org/1d/76/1d76991533df11efbaeeeeeeac1ed7e66fbf94a7/general_handbook_guiding_principles_for_local_leaders.pdf Kristine’s prior podcast (699): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-699-kristine-coons-transgender-and-her-wife/id1347971725?i=1000628774947
Exponent II has played an essential role in creating a shared, safe space for women and gender minorities connected to the Church to explore and express the impacts of "isms" in Church culture. It began in the Boston area as a quarterly newspaper in 1974 by friends who had met and worked on projects together in the Relief Society, and today it continues to provide that space, both physically and digitally. For example, when Exponent II was first created, the idea that someone might adhere to gospel principles and Church policies AND feminism was incredibly radical. Katie and Heather have undertaken a Herculean task in creating this commemoration of Exponent II's founding in their new book, Fifty Years of Exponent II, that includes the history of the organization and an anthology of selected works from the quarterly publication and blog. Heather and Katie describe the rich content of this compilation and share examples from their book that shed light on some of the challenges inherent in the task. They also talk about the ongoing need for Latter-Day Saints have to safe community both within and outside of the Church, noting the importance of not just feminism, but the impacts that ableism, ageism, racism, anti-queer sentiment, and ethnocentricity can have on members and their loved ones. I am grateful to Katie and Heather for their dedication to such a great cause and for their willingness to share their stories with us on this podcast. As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). Links:Fifty Years of Exponent II: www.amazon.com/Fifty-Years-Exponent-Katie-Ludlow/dp/1560854774 Exponent Blog on Instagram: @exponentII_mag Katie Rich on Instagram: @KatieLudlowRich
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Z Blanchard, (lived in Utah, Costa Rica, San Diego and Ecuador; Argentina RM; attending UVU in Utah; age 21) joins us to share his story as a bisexual member of the Church of Jesus Christ out of his heartfelt desire to give hope to others. Z (youngest of four siblings, with three older sisters) begins by giving insights into what it was like to grow up with the cognitive dissonance of being attracted to men while remaining very active in the church of Jesus Christ. While he loved (and continues to love) the gospel, he gives insights into struggles such as the constant pressure to come out to his loved ones, internalized homophobia, and self-hate, as he threw himself into efforts to be free from these stressors. Z talks about trying to make it work with a girl and feeling totally broken as the reality of his sexual orientation started to kick-in. This confusion, along with the outset of the global pandemic, led him to a place of hopelessness with no light at the end of the tunnel. He shares about the things that helped him stay alive both physically and spiritually during these difficult years (including great family experiences) where church/the proclamation on the family/some conference talks became nearly unbearable. He also talks about hitting an extremely low point which led him to seek therapy from Jill Freestone, a close friend and life coach, who gave Z tools and insights to find hope. One of these insights was into the Divine Nature and character of Heavenly Mother, a doctrine that caused him to observe, “if there is a more expansive understanding of God, then maybe there is a more expansive understanding of me”. Z talks about why he didn’t leave the church, but rather decided to serve a mission after coming out because of his testimony of loving Heavenly Parents and Jesus Christ’s power to heal. He shares some painful and beautiful experiences while serving in Argentina (including coming out to a few companions—with one companion giving him a powerful affirming Christmas gift—a story you won’t want to miss). Z is one of the most spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually mature persons I’ve met. He understands the Gospel of Jesus Christ and how that gives hope to others. Z’s story is more than the story of a queer Latter-Day Saint, it is a story of human resilience and the influence God can and will have on our lives. If you are queer or straight, his story will help you find more peace and hope in your life. Please listen and share this podcast with others, it could be exactly what another person is needing right now. Thank you, Z, for being on the podcast. The world is a better place with you in it. You have a great life ahead of you full of giving hope to others. Links: Z’s YouTube coming out video (English): https://youtu.be/xr87N0AvbHc?si=cxRqkiCxpQ-6vETz Z’s YouTube coming out video (Spanish): https://youtu.be/LrJI5CV1Ato?si=ya_Q6EztmB0Ecoub Z’s Instagram: @tegaaaaaanFacebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This episode is dedicated to the loving memory of JeNeal Nichol Miller, who passed away on Pioneer Day this year. She inspired everyone she knew to be nonjudgmental and Christlike. She was a true ally and is deeply missed. This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Tonya Baker Miller (married mother of four, active LDS, Founder/Clinical Director of Cottonwood Counseling and Coaching) joins us to talk about supporting transgender/non-binary Latter-day Saints. Tonya has more than ten years of experience as a therapist working with transgender individuals, and also has transgender friends and family members about whom she cares deeply. Tonya talks about gospel principles, provides clinical perspectives, and offers ideas to help us better understand and support our transgender friends. Tonya addresses questions such as: “Is this a phase?”, “Is being transgender a disorder?”, “Is there a ‘cause,’ or do some people just ‘come with this?’”, and “What is intersectionality? And why are there so many transgender people also on the autism spectrum?” Tonya also talks about how complex transgenderism is. For example, the medical/clinical angle tends to utilize the disease model to characterize many challenges that transgender individuals encounter. Socially, there is so much judgment (political, religious, etc.) around transgenderism that we risk getting lost in abstraction and losing focus on ways we can show love and help each individual meet their day-to-day needs. She describes ways that we can support our transgender friends as they navigate this incredibly nuanced and misunderstood space. I am so grateful for Tonya and her work to support transgender Latter-day Saints and their families. I learn so much from her and grateful to have her on the podcast. I hope that you listen to this episode and gain more understanding/vocabulary/tools to better love/support our transgender/non-binary friends. On a personal note, I am grateful for Tonya for being a guest host of this podcast and writing a chapter in my third book about healing from Church-generated trauma (see show notes). You are awesome Tonya! Links: JeNeal Miller’s Obituary: www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/name/jeneal-miller-obituary?id=55698595 Tonya’s clinical practice: www.cottonwood.care Tonya’s Chapter from my third book, Building The Good Ship Zion (Chapter 3: Ministering to Those With Church-Generated Trauma): www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9fvz6iy4k75nwp5tpupi9/Chapter-3-Ministering-to-Those-with-Church-Generated-Pain-or-Trauma.pdf?rlkey=zahycun2wv27opaq7l7s5y8qf&dl=0 Tonya’s earlier episode on this podcast (# 501) on healing from Church-generated trauma: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-501-tonya-baker-miller-healing-from-church-trauma-strong-lds-families “Tonya’s Story,” (about supporting her son, Andy, during the time he was coming out as gay), from Gospel Library: JeNeal Miller’s Obituary: www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/name/jeneal-miller-obituary?id=55698595 Tonya’s clinical practice: www.cottonwood.care Tonya’s Chapter from my third book, Building The Good Ship Zion (Chapter 3: Ministering to Those With Church-Generated Trauma): www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9fvz6iy4k75nwp5tpupi9/Chapter-3-Ministering-to-Those-with-Church-Generated-Pain-or-Trauma.pdf?rlkey=zahycun2wv27opaq7l7s5y8qf&dl=0 Tonya’s earlier episode on this podcast (# 501) on healing from Church-generated trauma: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-501-tonya-baker-miller-healing-from-church/id1347971725?i=1000550041715 “Tonya’s Story,” (about supporting her son, Andy, during the time he was coming out as gay), from Gospel Library: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/videos/tonyas-story Instagram: @tbird1490 Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100011381891072
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Caysen Crum (New Hampshire RM, Southern Utah University Grad, HXP Guide, Further Physician, Minersville Utah) joins us to share his story of doing everything he could to be “Mr. perfect and straight” (including serving a perfectly obedient mission, dating women, excelling at sports/academics) and how that eventually led to depression and suicidal ideation. Caysen talks of his love for everyone else—but how he had no love for himself. Caysen talks about hitting rock bottom with his decision to end his life and how a grandmother changed that decision. Caysen then talks about therapy (super helpful to end his internalized homophobia) and then powerful spiritual experiences while in Africa on an HXP trip including deep confirmation that God made Caysen gay—and that is a good thing allowing Caysen life mission of blessing others to be possible. Caysen also talks about how shame has no place in our lives and how it is eliminated “by the Atonement of Jesus Christ” and good therapy. Cayson talks about helpful people along the way (his YSA Bishop, therapist, camp counselor and others). It is hard to put into words how powerful Caysen’s story is—how he teaches of loving Heavenly Parents and our role of the Savior—and his journey to accept being gay. I was brought to tears a few times by the spiritual maturity, doctrinal insights. and goodness of Caysen. Our world and church are better off with people like Caysen part of it. If you are figuring out your sexual orientation/gender identity, need more Jesus/hope in your life, or want to better support queer Latter-day Saints, please listen to Caysen’s powerful story. You are a good man, Caysen. Thank you for being on the podcast. Links: Caysen’s Lift and Love story on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/C_QlDVIPkdJ/?igsh=MXJ3cTVjdjJvdnlkNQ%3D%3D Cayson’s IG: @caysencrumFacebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Ben Bernards (lives in Sacramento, RM, current Bishopric member, author, podcaster, EFY speaker, early 40s) joins us to share their family story. This story started with three children — a daughter and then two sons — but now continues with 3 daughters, as both of their sons are transgender. Ben talks about how he and his wife Megan are navigating this road to support their transgender and cisgender children, with powerful insights for anyone looking to support someone who is transgender Ben shares deeply spiritual experiences and powerful insights when each daughter came out at different stages in their lives, and the surprising feelings of calm and peace they felt each time. Ben talks about their goal to preserve the family relationships and walk with their transgender daughters—and also deeply spiritual experiences on how much our Heavenly Parents love Ben’s daughters—and how everyone is created in their image. Ben talks about how being “safe person” for them gave them courage to come out, when they were scared to do so. Ben talks about open ended questions like “how long have you felt this way” and “how best can I support you” to keep the conversation going. Ben also talks about grief/loss of changing family expectations—including the lives he once imagined as a father of two sons. Ben talks about the need for community of other LDS parents with transgender children. Ben continues with how the recent handbook changes (Aug 2024) negatively impact transgender Latter-day Saints and how the “border drawn in a new location and how his transgender daughters are now outside”. My heart aches as I see the painful impact of these handbook changes on LDS families with transgender members. Thank you, Ben (and your whole family), for sharing your story. It is a beautiful family love story. Thank you for giving all insights on how to better understand, see, and support our transgender/non-binary friends. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Dr Julia Bernards Episode 664: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-664-dr-julia-bernards-byu-dissertation-on-transgender/id1347971725?i=1000619444998 Gallup Poll on LGBTQ+ identification by generation: https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx Poll at BYU finding 13% of population were queer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history#cite_note-Survey-3
Michelle and Steve Shaw are the parents of four children, three of whom have been diagnosed with neurological disabilities, ranging from ADHD to anomalies in the brain. They are active members of the Church and live in the Seattle area; Michelle serves in her Stake Primary Presidency and Steve serves on the Stake High Council. Michelle is also a special education teacher, and teacher of the blind and visually impaired, so she brings additional perspective to the issues that members with disabilities face as they try to integrate with Church culture. I am grateful to Michelle and Steve, and vicariously to their children, for having the courage to start having conversations about ways that we can make sure that each member of the Church, regardless of their varying capacities, feels safe and seen in the Church setting. Michelle and Steve talk about starting their family and having all of the hopes that many of us have at that stage of life. They describe having certain assumptions about the role that the Church would play in the lives of their children; they anticipated their kids enjoying primary and youth programs, and having a sense of safety and belonging that a ward family might provide. They also talk about their growing disappointment, as they have watched their children struggle in many of the settings and programs that the Church provides for children and youth. Michelle and Steve know that other members of the Church have good intentions, and that no one intends harm towards their children; they also know the heartache that accompanies watching their kids feel misunderstood, or “othered” by well-meaning members. They describe what it is like for them to grapple with the paradox of belonging to our family-centered Church, while also knowing that their family cannot always fully participate due to limitations in the flexibility of Church culture and assumptions others make about their kids. Michelle and Steve describe ways that they believe Church culture can improve so that no one feels “othered” and so that all of us can enjoy worshipping together. As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care).
My friend Rylee (he/they) joins us to share their story. Rylee (married father of 7, mid-40’s. RM, believing/active LDS, IT professional) talks about their feelings of gender dysphoria from their earliest memories. Rylee (who is doing the podcast to give others hope walking this road) talks about their journey of self-discovery, navigating faith and identity, lessons learned and hopes for the future. Rylee talks about things they are doing within the new transgender handbook policies to stay temple-worthy and to fully participate in the Church. At the same time, Rylee talks about the sacrifice to make this possible and also how the handbook can cause transgender members to feel like second class citizens. Rylee and I talk about how gender dysphoria is a recognized/established health issue with guidelines to feel better—and how staying fully active in the church takes some of those guidelines off the table. Rylee also talks about how his gender dysphoria is the bottom of the iceberg—but was presenting with depression and anxiety (top of the iceberg stuff that is easier to see) and how he needed to recognize/address gender dysphoria to improve his mental health. Rylee talks about his work to take shame out of his life for never fitting into the cultural expectations for a man—and his firm testimony that he is created as intended by our Heavenly Parents and this “is a beautiful part of who I am” that doesn’t need fixing in the resurrection. If you have feelings of gender dysphoria (or looking to better support transgender/non-binary Latter-day Saint), please listen to Rylee and their deeply insightful and spiritual journey. Thank you, Rylee, for your courage to be on the podcast. I was so moved listening to your story. You are so brave. We need good people like you in our Church and society. You help us to expand the boarders of Zion so more feel welcome, needed, and belonging. Links: Rylee’s email: rylee.burn@icloud.com
My friend John Crane (lives in Austin TX, grew up in Oregon/Washington, Sweden RM 1966-68, married a woman, has 4 kids and many grandkids, divorced, been with husband Thom for over 35 years, no longer LDS), joins us to share his story being gay and a deep believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. John starts with his growing up years and finding his spiritual home in the Church and then serving a successful mission in Sweden. John talks about getting married to a woman (being more of a “church assignment”) and having 4 kids. John talks about that marriage ending and deciding to date men (which led to being excommunicated—John fulfilled a church assignment the night before). John talks about painful/messy experiences dating men (and being in unhealthy relationships) and continue to pray to God for direction. John talks about finding his husband Thom (also a RM) being the answer to his prayers (and Thom’s prayers) and how they built a life—and beautiful love story—together. John—a deeply emotional and spiritual man—talks about his love of Heavenly Father, the Savior, the Gospel of Jesus Christ and scriptures and the many deeply spiritual experiences that are part of his journey (including baptizing his Dad). John talks about his husband Thom and their deep love and companionship (and being there for each other as they get older) and Thom’s dedicated temple family history work and his support of his kids/grandchildren who have/will serve missions. I’m so grateful for John’s courage to be on the podcast and share his story and his insights into the character of God/our Savior and their constant role in our lives. You are a good man, John. Your story will help so many. Links: John’s e-mail: john144@gmail.com The inspiration for John’s e-mail: John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
My friend Guillermo Lemus (age 30, BYU grad student, BYU-Idaho grad, married, RM) joins us to share his multi-year journey to process the complicated aspects of our Church and find a way to remain a member of the Church. In sharing his story, Guillermo normalizes a faith crisis/expansion (including all the pain one feels on this road) and what he (and other did) to help/support him. Guillermo uses the model of the “Garden/Fall/Redemption” to frame up a faith expansion in a positive and on-shaming way. Guillermo shares a beautiful poem (“Lord of the 4th Watch—see show notes) and also talks about self-love. If you are in faith expansion and want to find a way to authentically stay in the Church, Guillermo story will help you (it helps me!). And if you are looking to better support our good members walking this road, Guillermo story/insights will help you better support others. Thank you, Guillermo, for being on the podcast. You represent everything good about our Church and world. You are a good man and friend. Your story will help so many. Links: Guillermo’s IG: @glemoose and @edens_exodus Twitter: @GELemus13 Richard Ostler’s chapter 10 (from his book Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture) on Ministering to Those With Questions: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tvlalac35zozq8625hc4r/Chapter-10-Ministering-To-Those-With-Questions.-Listen-Learn-and-Love-Improving-Latter-day-Saint-Culture.pdf?rlkey=e2fdmkkwwa3pu80n33ighncix&dl=0
My friend and mentor Bryce Cook (married, father of 6 children/7 grandchildren) joins us to talk about how he and his wife Sara navigated the road of having two gay sons (which started in 2003 when their son Trevor came out as gay). Bryce talks about how his worldview of gay people dramatically changed upon learning his good/talented/spiritual son is gay. Bryce talks about Trevor “wanting companionship” just like he saw with his parents (Trevor married his husband Ben in 2023). Their third son Tanner also came out as gay after he saw how his family responded to Trevor’s coming out. Bryce talks about deep spiritual promptings that he and Sara needed to do something with the knowledge they gained and not be silent, which led to the formation of All Arizona in 2012. Bryce talks about how their home became a safe place for queer Latter-day Saints and the resulting spiritual/sacred experiences that followed—and how the annual All Arizona conferences provided support/community to LGBTQ members and education/understanding for their family members and church leaders. Bryce talks about the promptings he received to write about this topic, which became a groundbreaking widely-circulated essay called “What Do We Know of God’s Will For His LGBT Children? An Examination of the LDS Church’s Position on Homosexuality (see show notes). This essay (which has helped me better understand this issue) is powerful and brings more insight/understanding (and possibilities) for queer Latter-day Saints and those who support them. Thank you, Bryce and Sara (and your wonderful family) for teaching how to better love and support. Your story is a beautiful family love story. I encourage everyone to listen to Bryce’s podcast and read his essay—I believe you will have better tools to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Bryce’s essay: mormonlgbtquestions.com/ All Arizona: www.allarizona.org/ Bryce/Sara’s earlier podcast (episode 116): soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-116-bryce-and-sara-cook-active-lds-6-children-including-two-gay-sons
Trigger Warning. This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call, test, chat 988 My friend Seth Price (Canadian, Age 20, Service Missionary) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about dealing with and then accepting being called on a service mission (finished July 2024) when he always wanted to serve a proselyting mission. Seth talks about learning how to accept his circumstances because of his desire to serve Christ and help others come unto Christ and feel His love and acceptance. Seth talks about how he learned “he is not meant to fit the mold” and how that allows him to help love and support others—and help them find Christ. Seth talks about his journey to accept being gay through middle school and high school (including times when he went back in the closet given the reactions of others). Seth talks about his hopes for the future and his love of our Savior. Seth also talks about his brother Kaleb who died of suicide in 2022 and how he is navigating losing his brother. I am so impressed with the spiritual maturity of Seth, his commitment to doing good, and his love of everyone (Seth’s Facebook profile says “God has never met a person He did not love”). It is people like Seth that give me hope for the future of our Church and society. Thank you, Seth, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friend Lori LeVar Pierce (grew up in the South, BA and MBA from BYU, corporate executive, married mother of three, teacher, lives in Columbus, Mississippi) joins us to introduce listeners to Exponent II—which is celebrating its 50th anniversary. Lori talks about the purpose of Exponent II (including a quarterly magazine, a blog, annual retreat) as it supports Mormon women and gender minorities. Lori also shares insights for other Latter-day Saints who are navigating the sometimes-complex road of career, family, marriage, and church participation—including where women’s voices sometimes are not fully sought after or valued. Lori also talks about how to best support her three children—all of which are queer—including a transgender (they/them) child, and two bisexual children. I was so moved with Lori’s perspective and principals to help other parents support their queer kids. This family story is a beautiful love story. Thank you, Lori, for being on the podcast. Your mature and thoughtful voice and perspective is needed. I learned so much from you. I’m grateful for your work (and many others) at Exponent II as we work to expand the borders of Zion where more feel welcome, needed and a greater sense of belonging. I encourage everyone to listen to this episode and check out Exponent II. Links: Exponent II: exponentii.org/ Exponent II fundraiser: exponentii.org/support/ Subscribe to the Exponent II Magazine: exponentii.org/product/subscription/ Lori’s e-mail: board@exponentii.org Lori’s blog post mentioned in the podcast: exponentii.org/blog/guest-post-what-i-wanted-to-say-today-in-testimony-meeting/ Candice Wendt blog post mentioned in the podcast: exponentii.org/blog/guest-post-the-insidious-exchange-of-community-for-covenants/
My friends Jessica Salter and Jett Atwood (gay Latter-day Saint women in a same-sex marriage, attend and believe in Church) join us to share their stories. Jett & Jessie (who were married on June 15, 2024) talk about their supportive ward in Utah County (including their bishopric attending their reception) and being so fortunate to have many in their ward “catch” them. Jett (who is older than Jessie; Washington DC South RM, gifted cartoonist) talks about her journey to accept that her sexual orientation is part of her divine nature. Jessie (mother of 3 kids, former adjunct professor at BYU) also talks about accepting her sexual orientation and how they found each other. Both women talk about their supportive ward, principles to better support queer Latter-day Saints, the resurrection, focusing on what is in their control, their love of the church, and the beauty of their marriage and family. Thank you, Jessie and Jett, for sharing your story. You are two wonderful women—doing much to bless and help others. I’m glad the two of you found each other. Links: Instagram account: @headedtonineveh
My friends Sarah and Jeff Case (mixed-orientation marriage, active LDS, two queer kids) join us to update listeners on their story, share principles to keep families together, and the new Gather for Youth (ages 14-18) at the Gather Conference (Sept 13-14th, 2024). Sarah (middle school teacher, straight) and Jeff (clinical psychologist, gay) talk about a “process versus outcome” perspective to raising kids, focusing on preserving the relationship, and finding peace when children step away from the Church. Sarah and Jeff also talk about the new Gather for Youth (purpose, focus, who is invited, scope of activities, etc) that is for queer youth (and their friends/allies) to help them feel loved, supported and hopeful. I was so moved listening to Sarah and Jeff (a beautiful family love story) and hearing about Gather for Youth (so excited for this group)—and all the many insights to help better support queer Latter-day Saints and their families as we work to better create Zion. Thank you, Sarah and Jeff, for your needed work in our community—you two are two of my heroes! You are doing so much good. I encourage everyone to listen to your story and to learn more about Gather for Youth. Links: Gather 2024 Registration: gatherconference.regfox.com/2024-gather-conference More about Gather for Youth: liftandlove.org/gatheryouth Jeff’s 2023 Gather Presentation: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XSbxq1iFvs Jeff Case e-mail: rjeffreycase@gmail.com Sarah Case e-mail: musicmomsarah@gmail.com Gather Instagram: @gatherconf Jeff Case Prior Podcast: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-86-dr-jeff-case-phd-in-clinical-psychology-from-byu-active-lds-understanding-suicide Jeff and Sarah Case Prior Podcast: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-92-jeff-and-sarah-case-married-parents-of-three-active-lds-mixed-orientation-marriage
My friend Brenden Krogh (age 25, grew up in Grantsville/Mona Utah, Lives in St George, Active LDS, RM) joins us to share his story. Brenden talks about his journey to understand and accept being gay and the role of his Heavenly Parents and the Savior in this process—including personal revelation that he is created as intended and he should feel no shame for being gay. Brenden talks about his supportive family (so many powerful examples), church leaders/members, and friends to love, accept, and support him. Brenden talks about how their love and support helped him to do the same. Brenden talks about personal revelation through music, church talks, and scriptures to hear God’s love/voice in his life. He talks about a YSA Ward that made the focus not to get married—but to help everyone come unto Christ. Brenden talks about the helpful things people do/say when he opens up about the complexity of his situation. If you are a queer Latter-day Saint wondering how our Heavenly Parents feel about you and the ability of the Savior to walk with you, please listen to this podcast. It will help you better love/accept yourself and find hope in your future. And if you are a parent, friend, or ally—this podcast will give you more tools to support queer Latter-day Saints. Thank you, Brenden, for being how you are and for your courage to share your story. You are brave. You are a good man, and we are so fortunate to have your insights to help us all better come unto Christ. Your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Brenden’s Facebook: www.facebook.com/brenden.krogh Brenden’s Instagram: @brenden_krogh24601 Charlie Bird’s “Without the Mask” book: www.amazon.com/dp/1629727849 Charlie Bird’s “Expanding the Boarders of Zion” book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSMNB3G7 Brenden’s coming out post on Facebook: www.facebook.com/brenden.krogh/posts/pfbid02qZhfHE1NhQZAaiQ6Wo3dcbyydwBkLv1RjYb33nB7xcrVAkWqUhMFWief3XcvJdMPl Gather Conference (Sept 2024) Registration: gatherconference.regfox.com/2024-gather-conference
This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Sarah and Josh Sabey, who run For Little Saints (@forlittlesaints). Sarah and Josh share the experiences they've had in creating their newest publication, "The Book of Mormon Storybook." Sarah and Josh talk about wishing that they had a way to share the scriptures with their children that would help them connect more deeply. They recognized that the more traditional way of storytelling from the scriptures, which has often been based on teaching sequences of events or memorizing names and places, can omit some of the more relatable, human, elements of the stories. Sarah and Josh highlight some specific examples from the Book of Mormon that follow character arcs. This way of looking at people, or Peoples, in the Book of Mormon ensures that we do not define them by one story, or one single moment in their history. Taking the long view, or being able to zoom in and then zoom out, can provide perspectives about spiritual growth, and emphasize real ways that people can change. They discuss the importance of moving away from polarization, towards peace. I am grateful for Sarah and Josh, and the inspired work they are doing to help all of us connect more deeply through thoughtful storytelling. Stories connect us. Christ taught with stories during His earthly ministry, and those stories can still connect us to Him. Stories can instruct and heal us. In fact, "Listen, Learn and Love" was founded on the principle that all stories can serve as important connecting points. They can bridge gaps of understanding and provide pathways to love and peace. Sarah and Josh are also filmmakers and have published earlier books. The link for their Instagram is found below. As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). Links: @forlittlesaints
My friend Lilly MacKenzie (3rd year BYU student) joins us to share her story. Lilly talks about her journey (starting in her early years) realizing she was different and gradually developing the vocabulary, understanding, and person insights to realize she is transgender. Lilly talks about how she feels so much better being her authentic self. Lilly talks about all that BYU is doing to support transgender students (she is having a good experience) and all her ward/church leaders are doing to support her (also a good experience). Lilly talks about her love of and belief in the temple—even though she currently can’t attend. I was so impressed listening to and learning from Lilly—and better realize the importance of hearing multiple stories from our transgender friends. They are Israel, need to be gathered with our kind comments, and help us create Zion. Thank you, Lilly, for being on the podcast. You are very brave. You help others walking this road and the rest of us wanting to do better. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Church’s transgender web site: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender Richard Ostler’s transgender/non-binary podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts
My friend Austin Peterson (Ghana RM, BYU Grad, FSY Leader, Gather Event Coordinator) joins us to share his story. Austin starts with his journey to accept being gay and gradually coming out (including as a Bishopric member during his testimony). Austin talks about the good experiences and the painful experiences being open in his Latter-day Saint community. Austin talks his work as an FSY Leader and the principles to help Latter-day Saint youth feel needed and belonging. Austin talks about his decision to step away from the Church—following his experiences over several years of being hurt, being on the edge of the next hurt, drain of minority stress, wondering who in the congregation has said hurtful things, and finding Sunday as being his most draining day. I realize some of our best members step away and honor their decision with love and support. Austin—full of desire to help queer youth—talks about the upcoming Gather conference (Sept 2024) and the new Youth Track (Gather for Youth) and what the team hope to accomplish. Austin—who understands this group well—is doing much good to give this group more hope. Austin is one of the finest guests we’ve had on the podcast. I’m grateful for his years of service in the Church and his continue service to bless others. I’m honored to have Austin on the podcast and so grateful for his needed work in our community. You are a good man, Austin. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Austin’s Lift and Love Story: https://www.facebook.com/story.php/?story_fbid=833564522137674&id=100064524019287 Austin’s 2023 Gather Presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI2nIrvKduA&t=255s&pp=ygUhZ2F0aGVyIGNvbmZlcmVuY2UgYXVzdGluIHBldGVyc29u Gather 2024 Registration: https://gatherconference.regfox.com/2024-gather-conference Gatherings Information: https://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings E-mail contact: GatherForYouth@gmail.com
My friend Spencer Smith (age 31, ER attending pharmacist, BYU grad, active LDS) join us to share his story. Spencer (oldest of five; grew up in Sacramento) talks his journey to accept his sexual orientation and coming out to others. Spencer talks about not being able to make dating work with women and managing the sometimes painful cultural expectations to date and marry. Spencer talks about deciding that is not going to work for him (or her) and gradually coming out to others (including a very good experience with his brother and then later with his family). Spencer talks about his decision to attend Gather in 2023 (felt a lot of anxiety beforehand) and how that transforming experience helped him understand that he can be both gay and a Latter-day Saint. Spencer ended up volunteering at Gather and talks about the importance of support and community. Spencer talks about the joy of having his mother attend with him and all the conversations that shared experience created. Spencer talks about feeling impressed to start a “Gatherings” in his area and how this helps create support for LGBTQ members/allies in local areas—scalable to help so many. I am so impressed with Spencer who is in such a good spot (his best self) to make the rest of his life possible—in a thoughtful and intentional way. I was also impressed with Spencer’s family and their love and support on his journey. If you are a queer Latter-day Saint, ally, parent, or local leader—I encourage you to listen to Spencer story. You are a good man, Spencer. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Spencer’s Lift and Love story: liftandlove.org/stories/spencer-smith Gather 2024 Registration: gatherconference.regfox.com/2024-gather-conference Spencer’s Instagram: @spencerdavidsmith Gatherings Directory: liftandlove.org/groups
My friends Todd and Tanya Hughes (live in Ventura County CA, married for 29 years, recently divorced, still best friends) join us to share their story. Todd (who recently turned 50) shares his background growing up gay in the church, and all the shame and self-hate that came with that. Todd and Tanya met on their missions and ended up getting married, after Todd told her he was gay during their courtship. Todd talks about how church teachings have evolved and how raising a queer and transgender son helped Todd learn that he is an intentionally created gay Son of God, and that God loves all of him. Over the past few years, that has led Todd and Tanya to a decision to end their marriage—but remain friends (including still sitting on the same church pew together). Tanya and Todd talk about their beautiful marriage, parenting a transgender son, and how they continue to help/support each other. Both Tanya and Todd have insights to support spouses of mixed-orientation marriages and better support/love/understand those whose marriages end. Tanya talks about how she still has hope for her “eternal family” and how it just has been reconfigured. Todd (who still actively serves in the church) talks about his intentions to date and then marry a man and participate as much as possible in the Church. Neither Todd nor Tanya are inviting others to a similar path—just bravely sharing their story in hopes to help others walking a similar road and to help all of us better love our fellow Latter-day Saints. Thank you, Todd and Tanya, for being on the podcast. You are two remarkable, courageous, and faithful Latter-day Saints. Your courage to share your story helps so many. Todd’s e-mail: thousandoaksgathering@gmail.com Social media:IG (Todd): @todd.hughes.in.caIG (Tanya): @tanyainsocal Latest Church Teachings: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/same-sex-attraction Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988 My friend Jeremy Kerrigan (LDS convert, married father of 5, Arizona native, Chiropractor, photographer) joins us to share his story. Jeremy talks about being aware of this same-sex attraction most of his life but not fully addressing it until he came out to his wife in late 2023 (good experience). Once that box was open, Jeremy talks about his journey of deconstructing and then reconstructing his life going forward. Much of that included dark days of depression, anxiety and considering suicide. Jeremy also shares all his efforts (and other good people in his life) to help him find hope again and to better understand who he was created to be. Jeremy talks about getting in a healthier space with hope, peace, and also receiving powerful personal revelation that “God loves gay Jeremy.” Jeremy talks about fully accepting himself and how that takes away shame and allows him to be authentic. Jeremy talks about how we are all created in the “image of God.” Jeremy talks about his future and how he is purposefully going slow and becoming his best self before making major decisions. Jeremy also talks about his podcast called “The Empowerful Health Podcast” (see show notes). Thank you, Jeremy, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You give hope for others walking a similar road and those who are suicidal—and provides principals and perspectives to better love, see, and support each other. You are a good man. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Jeremy’s Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/empowerful-health/id1649852833 Jeremy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremykerriganaz/ Jeremy Kerrigan E-mail: jskerrigan@gmail.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988 My friend Jeremy Kerrigan (LDS convert, married father of 5, Arizona native, Chiropractor, photographer) joins us to share his story. Jeremy talks about being aware of this same-sex attraction most of his life but not fully addressing it until he came out to his wife in late 2023 (good experience). Once that box was open, Jeremy talks about his journey of deconstructing and then reconstructing his life going forward. Much of that included dark days of depression, anxiety and considering suicide. Jeremy also shares all his efforts (and other good people in his life) to help him find hope again and to better understand who he was created to be. Jeremy talks about getting in a healthier space with hope, peace, and also receiving powerful personal revelation that “God loves gay Jeremy.” Jeremy talks about fully accepting himself and how that takes away shame and allows him to be authentic. Jeremy talks about how we are all created in the “image of God.” Jeremy talks about his future and how he is purposefully going slow and becoming his best self before making major decisions. Jeremy also talks about his podcast called “The Empowerful Health Podcast” (see show notes). Thank you, Jeremy, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You give hope for others walking a similar road and those who are suicidal—and provides principals and perspectives to better love, see, and support each other. You are a good man. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Jeremy’s Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/empowerful-health/id1649852833 Jeremy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremykerriganaz/ Jeremy Kerrigan E-mail: jskerrigan@gmail.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: /www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988 My friend Glen Bass (father of two, lives in Utah County, left church 2018, rebaptized 2024, divorced after 15 years of marriage) joins us to share his story. Glen talks about his early years figuring out he is not 100% heterosexual. Glen talks about his mission and being disfellowshipped for falling in love with his companion/physical relationship. Glen talks about navigating the pain/shame/humiliation of that experience and the positive people in his life that kept him going. Glen talks about returning to full fellowship and finding his wife (including opening up about his SSA during their courtship). Glen talks about how that married ultimately ended (still on good terms) and how he is moving forward. Glen talks about leaving shame, self-loathing and finding peace, joy and happiness in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and his decision to be rebaptized in March 2024. Glen also shares a powerful insight while suicidal on the impact of his possible suicide on his daughter—one of the most powerful segments of any podcast we’ve done. Glen talks about how to forgive the Church/Church culture for painful experiences consistent with his desire to move forward in the Church. I was so moved by the maturity, courage, vulnerability, hope and perspective in Glen’s story. Honored to have him on the podcast. You are a good man my friend Glen!
My friend Dr. Kerry Spencer Pray (lives in Maryland, Associate Professor at Sevenson University, married to her wife Heather, mother of two, taught at BYU for 15 years, no longer practicing Mormon) joins us to share her story. Dr. Pray talks about her prior marriage to her former husband (they both are gay), why that marriage ended (they are on good terms), and how she found hope and happiness as she made her way forward. Dr. Pray talks about the importance of writing your own story outside of the expectations of others—and how each queer story is unique, needed, and valued. Dr. Pray talks about when she came out there were almost no stories of gay Latter-day Saint women and the importance of stories which led to her most recent book call “The Book of Queer Mormon Joy” which contains about 30 queer stories—focusing on how these individuals are finding joy. I’m grateful for Dr. Pray bravely sharing some of her story and also her work as editor of this new book—and all her work in our broad community to bring more understanding and support. Thank you Dr. Pray—so glad to have you on the podcast! Links: The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Signature Books: www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/the-book-of-queer-mormon-joy The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560854707 I Spoke To You in Silence at Amazon: hwww.amazon.com/dp/164769079X Dr. Pray Twitter: @Swilua Dr Pray on Instagram: @Swilua_
This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Jaci Wightman, who shares her compelling story of recovery from dependence on food, and on sugar in particular. Jaci describes the ways that she felt prepared and guided in her journey, which began with her learning that sugar addiction is very real. Jaci talks about being resistant to this idea for years before allowing herself to trust that the Lord was guiding her to the relief she so badly needed from her dependence. Jaci also provides insights into why her reliance on food developed, and how healing from her dependence has had nothing to do with dieting or attaining a certain body shape or size. I am grateful for Jaci's courage and for the hopeful perspective she brings to this topic. Jaci discusses the societal trends and pressures that influence so many people negatively and shares ideas for approaching and dismantling the shame that often interferes with our ability to see ourselves as God does. Jaci talks about feeling called to teach others about sugar addiction and to support them in their own healing. I feel very hopeful that this podcast will be a springboard that can help us examine our own attitudes, and associated behaviors, not only about food and body image, but also about other compulsions that we may turn to, instead of to the Savior, for help and comfort. I am glad there are people like Jaci, who not only have the experience, but also the expertise, to help all of us be more mindful and aware around this topic. Jaci's website and other social media links are shared below. Of note, Jaci was also interviewed in Episode 706 (link in show notes) As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). Links for Jaci's digital platform are below: Jaci’s YouTube channel: youtube.com/@jaciwightman?si=Haekg_Ziz0X_GDN_ Jaci’s website: jaciwightman.com/ Jaci’s earlier podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-706-jaci-wightman-new-book-ignited/id1347971725?i=1000631042858
My friend Haymitch St. Stephen (BYU degree, Stanford graduate degree, mid 30s, SLC native, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about his new book called “Friend of the Devil: A Story of Mental Health, Mistakes, and Self-Forgiveness”. This book is the story of Haymitch’s lifelong friend Cameron White, who—at age 17 in 2007—was the drunken driver of a car that killed four members of a Salt Lake City family (Michelle Williams and her unborn baby, her son Ben, and daughter Anna). Michelle’s husband Chris Willams (and a son) survived the accident. Chris wrote about this experience in his book called “Let It Go”. Haymitch, working closely with Cameron White for 6 years, writes the book with insights from Cameron’s perspective of his long journey to find peace, hope, and self-forgiveness. It is a powerful story realizing the life-altering/shattering impact on the Williams family, spending time in jail, meeting Chris, and working to find hope and self-forgiveness—even when he doesn’t feel he deserves it. Haymitch, a gifted creative writer and mindful/spiritual big thinker, masterfully weaves in teachings from others (Jesus, Lisa Miller, Thomas McConkie, Adam Miller) to this real-life story to create hope, peace and healing for everyone that seeks to forgive themselves. It is a book that is helpful to all of us to find peace and joy in the realities of an often wounding world. I was so moved reading this book and listening to Haymitch. This is a powerful book that I encourage everyone to read. Thank you Haymitch (and Chris and Cameron) for sharing this story to help bring us together as the same human family. Links: Order Haymitch’s book: www.stillpoint.life Learn about the June 7, 2024 book launch event: www.stillpoint.life Contact Haymitch: www.stillpoint.life Chris Williams “Let It Go” book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1609071271
My friend Hannah Russell (married mother of three, PhD, lives in Cincinnati, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to share her story of being asexual out of a desire to help others not feel alone. Hannah starts realizing she is different and falsely concluding “I am not a divine child of Heavenly Parents” because I don’t have any sexual interest. Hannah talks about how being asexual is a real thing and there isn’t some backstory “confusing” Hannah to falsely make this conclusion. Hannah talks about learning more about herself at BYU and dating. Hannah is very brave—and without shame—in sharing her feelings about not wanting to be sexually intimate. Hannah talks about getting on with her life (after a broken off engagement) and getting her PhD in Pathobiology and Molecular Medicine. Hannah talks about meeting her husband John and opening up to him about being asexual and how they navigated that road together and decided to get married and start a family. Hannah talks about how their marriage—a beautiful love story—is based on communication and consent. I learned so much from Hannah story about how to better understand and support my asexual friends, and principles to create a stronger marriage and family. Thank you, Hannah, for your courage to share your story so others don’t feel alone and all are welcome and needed as we create Zion. You are awesome! Links: Hannah’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hannah.russell.1428 Facebook Group to Better Support LGBTQ Latter-Day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friends Kate Kendrick (she/her) and her non-binary child Morgan (they/them) join us to share their story. Kate, who is no longer active LDS, joins us to talk about her journey to become an LGBTQ ally and then fully love and accept her sixteen-year-old non-binary/pansexual child who goes by the pseudonym "Morgan." (who is age 16). It is a beautiful family love story. Kate offers helpful principles and perspective for parents to love and support their queer children. Kate also talks about her decision to no longer participate in the Church and what we can do to build bridges of understanding between those in the Church and those who have left the Church. Kate is not asking other people to leave the Church—rather, she is suggesting what we can do to bring both parties together as members of the same human family. Morgan, who is wise beyond their years, talks about what gives them hope and shares their advice to queer people who have less more. struggle with those who don't accept their sexuality/gender identity and/or are feeling suicidal. Thank you, Kate and Morgan, for being on the podcast. Your story helps us learn how to better support others. Links: TikTok Page: @Midlife Exmo Momma -- Please note that, though Kate truly makes an effort to build bridges between members and former members of the Church, some content may not feel appropriate for those seeking to build their testimony of the Church. Please use discretion when watching her videos.
My good brother David (author of “Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question”) joins us to talk about his new book which gives readers a gospel-based framework and tools to navigate the increasingly polarized and contentious landscape of modern society. In the podcast, David talks about why he wrote the book, who is the audience, and how he hopes it helps us better come together as the same human family. David talks in a practical way of the skills and approaches to eliminate contention and become peacemakers. If you are feeling tensions of conflict with family, friends, fellow church members—or want to better ministering tools to bring people together, I invite you to read/share David’s book. It is a serious book needed in a divisive time—packed with the latest information from the finest minds, research, and scriptural/church leader insights to help heal our divides. Thank you, Dave, for all your great work in our community to bring us together. Links: Dave’s book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958774X Dave’s book on Amazon (Kindle): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZ4R7S2T Dave’s book at Kofford Books: https://gregkofford.com/products/healing-our-divides Dave’s e-mail: healingourdivides@gmail.com
My friend Arthur Wiseman (who returned from his successful mission in Gilbert Arizona in Dec of 2023, plans to become a therapist, and returned to live in Arizona) shares his mission experience. Arthur (who knew he was gay since age 6 and planned to tell no one) shares what it was like starting his mission and feeling spiritual promptings (many times during his mission) to open up about being gay because of a desire to help others find hope and Christ in their lives. Arthur talks about a variety of wonderful, spiritual, and sometimes painful experiences only possible because he was open. Arthur talks about developing a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and making Christ the center of his life. He talks about the personal revelation he is receiving. Arthur also talks about how being vulnerable allowed him to be a safe place for his companions to open up about their lives—providing beautiful insights on how to better minister to each other. Arthur talks about his supportive companions and what they proactively did to show their support. This is a powerful podcast from a brave and faithful gay Latter-day Saint. Arthur (and all those allies who support him) give me hope for the future as we work to build Zion. Thank you for being on the podcast Authur. Honored that more can hear your story. You are a good man. Links: Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555422532064 Instagram: @arthur.w.wiseman Facebook Group mentioned in the podcast: https://www.facebook.com/groups/706348281603277Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988Guest host Tonya Miller interviews Kyle Jones, M.D., who talks about his most recent book, “When All Hope Seems Lost: A Gospel Perspective on Mental Illness in Youth,” which will be released later this month. Kyle is a Family Practice physician who works primarily with neurodivergent individuals and their families. He is active in the Church, and he and his wife are the parents of four children. Kyle shares his story of first being diagnosed with mental illness as a student, with significant worsening during his medical residency. This is the topic of his first book: “Fallible: A Memoir of a Young Physician’s Struggle with Mental Illness.” He talks about noticing mood disorder symptoms when he was a teenager, but not realizing that he was dealing with mental illness at the time. The cumulative effects of the stress he experienced as a medical student and resident led him to eventually learn that he was living with anxiety and depression, for which he still takes medication and participates in therapy. Kyle describes ways that he started to share his story with other physicians and learned that he was not as alone as he feared. From there, he has continued to develop opportunities for providing outreach and education about mental illness, especially for members of the Church. He began to realize that there are not many resources about mental illness for youth in the Church, along with ongoing myths and stigma about the relation of mental illness to the gospel, which led him to write this book. Kyle describes the complexities that youth in the Church face, and ways that specific gospel principles can help them heal, even when, in some cases, there is no “cure” for what they are dealing with. He shares stories of teens who have worked though challenges with mental illness that he interviewed for his book. He also interviewed mental health professionals who work with teens and talks about some of the insights they provide. Kyle refers to what he calls the “Broken Record” messages of the gospel that can bolster youth who fear they have done something “wrong” to “cause” their mental illness. They are: 1) Jesus loves you, no matter what, 2) Mental illness is not your fault, and 3) There are people here to help. I am very grateful for Kyle’s willingness to share his story and perspectives around ways that principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ can ground and empower youth if they are experiencing mental illness while simultaneously navigating the complexities of life. As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). Links for Kyle’s books and other resources are found below.www.kylebradfordjones.comFacebook, Twitter, and Instagram: @kbjones11 Previous books: www.amazon.com/stores/Kyle-Bradford-Jones/author/B082WKSNYY?When All Hope Seems Lost: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CYCXFVB9
My friend Jashon Ray Fabia (Age 33, single, LDS, RM, BYU-H grad in Psychology and Music, finishing Master's in Music Therapy) bravely shares his story as a queer Filipino Latter-day Saint (our first guest from the Philippines) and his new book (see show notes). Jashon shares the shame he felt which continued until he came out to himself in his mid-20’s and others allowing Jashon to feel authentic and reduce/eliminate shame. It is a brave story of working through suicidal ideation to find hope and peace. Jashon talks about his focus on service to help other marginalized group, future projects and hopes for other queer Filipinos. Jashon concludes with reconciliation with his parents including grace with family members along this journey. Thank you, Jashon, for being on the podcast, writing your book, and sharing your story to give hope to others. You are a good man doing much healing in our world. Glad to have you on the podcast. Links: Jashon’s book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218917 Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 My friend Erik Thompson (Age 40, single, active LDS, RM) bravely shares his story with a heart full of desire to give others hope. Erik vulnerable and bravely talks about: Being a survivor of sexual abuse at age 13.Spiritual OCD (Scrupulosity).Porn and masturbation.Coming home from his mission (after a suicide attempt) at 9 months.Need for love and belonging.Becoming sexually active—in unsafe situations—drug use—and more suicidal ideation.Healing words from a senior Church leader including the “Savior is thrilled with you” and returning to Church activity.You are here to love.Upcoming NorthStar Conference. Erik can authentically teach the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal us from pain and to help us repent because Erik has the courage to share his story—helping us all understand that we too can find hope in our story—even the most difficult times of our lives. Part of Erik’s story is on the Church’s YouTube channel (see show notes). Thank you, Erik, for being on the podcast. You are one of my new heroes. Your story will help so many. You are a good man. Links: Erik’s Church YouTube: youtu.be/7avoFnympIg?si=vEBk7_YX709HGqfM NorthStar Conference: allevents.in/salt%20lake%20city/2024-north-star-conference/10000761893222137 Erik’s e-mail: erikguy@gmail.com Erik’s cell: 202-595-4747 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@etpiano83?_t=8lNeC55a9hC&_r=1 Scrupulosity Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/depression-mental-illness-podcasts Richard Ostler Free Chapter Links: Ending Porn Use: www.dropbox.com/s/w2ex40l4se85wku/Chapter%204%20Ending%20Pornography%20Use.%20%20Listen%20Learn%20and%20Love%2C%20Improving%20Latter-day%20Saint%20Culture.pdf?dl=0 Hope Filled Repentance: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1lo38ejspdzwfxngaaotm/Chapter-5-Hope-Filled-Repentance.-Listen-Learn-and-Love-Improving-Lattter-day-Saint-Culture.pdf?rlkey=18kd8tqtmls60b14y7ilc1f2i&dl=0 Overcoming Scrupulosity: www.dropbox.com/s/i314vw5im0khzia/Chapter%207%20Overcoming%20Scrupulosity%20%28Religious%20ODC%29.pdf?dl=0
My friends Cameo and Cooper Johnson (LDS parents of 4 children, live in Flagstaff AZ, Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioners) join us to share their story from the perspective of both LDS parents of a queer daughter (RM, engaged to another RM woman) and their professional work specializing in supporting LDS LGBTQ individuals and families. In the episode, the Johnsons bring unique and helpful perspectives from their experience as parents and also work as mental health practitioners that help all of us. Some of the topics covered by the Johnsons include: 1. Why they are excited and supportive of their daughter’s same-sex marriage.2. Why they stay members of the Church.3. What gives them hope and peace for their “eternal family”.4. What gives them hope for the future of the Church.5. The difference between core values and core beliefs.6. How to better see and support families who fit “outside of the idealized version”.7. The parable of the Good Samaritan.8. How personal growth often occurs “when we look inward and check ourselves.” This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done as the Johnsons bring their clinical experience and parental experience to help us better love and support our queer family members and friends. I encourage you to listen to this episode and share it with others. Thank you, Cameo and Cooper Johnson, for being on the podcast and your work to help bring us together as the same human family. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Cameo Johnson, PMHNPPonderosa Psychiatryhttps://www.ponderosapsychiatry.com/info@ponderosapsychiatry.comPsychology Today Profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/profile/737606 Cooper Johnson, PMHNPAdvanced Mental Health and Wellnesshttps://advancedmhw.com/support@advancedmhw.comPsychology Today Profile: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/psychiatrists/advanced-mental-health-wellness-williams-az/441627
My friend Nate Miller (grew up in Davis County, lives in Salt Lake County, Philippines RM, U of U graduation, no longer attending church) joins us to share his story. Nate starts with reading a powerful journal entry/letter during his mission that shares his journey (since age 6) of navigating being different and eventually realizing he is gay. Nate is so vulnerable, honest—with a gift of words to share his journey. I was so moved with Nate’s courage to be so honest—which helps us better understand what it is like to be alone figuring out one’s sexual orientation—and gives us insights what we can do to improve our culture to better support our queer friends. Nate talks about finding hope about his future and his family’s unconditional love and support. Nate also talks about advice he would give to his younger self “who was listening five years ago”. Like many of our episodes, I continue to be moved by brave people willing to share their stories out of love to help others find hope in their lives. I was also moved by Nate’s family and their words of unconditional love and support—this is a beautiful family love story. This is also a good podcast on principles to keep the family circle together and strong when a family member steps away from the church. Thank you, Nate, for your courage to be on the podcast. You are a good man—your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you. All my love and respect to you and the Miller family.Links: Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Nate Miler on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nate.miller.129142Nate Miller on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsnertme/
My friend James Smart (RM, age 20, from Rexburg Idaho, Santa Rosa CA missionary, at BYU) joins us to bravely share his story. James starts with reading his powerful and well-written coming out post sharing his story growing up knowing he was different, dealing with shame and associated coping mechanisms, deciding to serve a mission, and finding great healing and hope on his mission. It is a deeply authentic story of being honest, vulnerable, finding God, and finding peace that James is exactly who God created and wants him to be. We then discuss his coming out post and his future. I was so moved listening to James and his courage to be open and his ability to help others find God, remove shame, and find hope in their lives. I was also moved by James spiritual maturity and understanding of core gospel principles to navigate his future. If you are a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, a parent of a queer child, an ally, or a local leader—I encourage you to listen to James’ story and share it with others. Thank you, James, for being on the podcast. You are a good man and will continue to bless many lives. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: James Google Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yK07P9h3mNY9YxdzYhmmHRdAW7uyaH1TWAUbIikPhcw/edit?fbclid=IwAR38ebW2wd3DbxKLYhGNoHc3Y4xl1Qs5xxnH3g2Twb09_pYQpGZduTYdB34 James’ e-mail: jimmydsmart@gmail.com James’ cell: 208-390-7722 James’ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100020344095709 James’ Instagram: @james.d.smart
This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” Tonya interviews Dr. Cameron Staley, Ph.D., who talks about his most recent book: “Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher.” Cameron is a clinical psychologist who is currently working in private practice. He is an active member of the Church, and he and his wife have 4 children. Cameron talks about his research, discovering that unwanted pornography viewing may be more of a compulsion rather than an addiction. The implications of this led him to create self-directed programs including “Life After Pornography” and the “Life After Pornography Coach” app, based on research supported treatments for reducing compulsive pornography viewing. Cameron talks about how he hopes his book will help shift views around sexuality and its intersection with religion. He also describes his experiences navigating his psychology training while maintaining his religious beliefs, even at times when these two spaces seemed to be incompatible. He talks about recognizing the benefits that both of these perspectives bring to informing our understanding of sexuality and mental health. He has seen the challenges associated with working through gender and sexual identity issues, pornography concerns, and shares ideas about how working through these experiences can exist while also growing our testimonies and efforts in being disciples of Jesus Christ. Cameron also describes how his work as a psychologist has helped him develop a greater love towards God, his “neighbors,” and himself, and shares examples of ways that diversity enriches our opportunities to develop Christlike love. I am grateful to Cameron for his expertise, as well as his openminded and openhearted approach to teaching us more about these topics. You can learn more about his counseling services and free resources on his website, listed below. As a side note, I’m focusing on stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care). Richard 'Papa' Ostler Links: www.cameronstaley.com https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CTSPNGSD https://www.lifeafterpornography.com/sales-page33509805 https://getyourmarriageon.com/life-after-pornography-coach/
Warning: This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Jacob Guy (RM, age 23, Senior at Weber State, shared his story on Episode 613) joins us to talk about his new book “The Scorpion Unit” a story that Jacob hopes will help people considering suicide. In the podcast, Jacob talks about why he wrote the book, who he hopes will read it, and what how he hopes it will help people. Jacob shares his plans for future books. Jacob also talks about his road as a gay Latter-day Saint, what he is learning, how he is feeling about his future, and how people help him (please listen to Episode 613 for more of his story). I honored to have Jacob back on the podcast to connect listeners with his new book. I encourage everyone to read/share Jacob’s book and consider what we can do to better support our LGBTQ friends and family members. You are a good man, Jacob. So talented. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Jacob’s Book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CWXMS923 Jacob’s earlier podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-613-jacob-guy-age-22-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000599213707
This episode is guest-hosted by my friend, Tonya Miller. Tonya was on episode 501 and wrote the third chapter in my most recent book, called “Ministering To Those With Church-Generated Pain or Trauma.” Tonya interviews Stacie Proctor, who joins us to talk about her life as a mom, wife, business executive, and active member of the Church, who also lives with bipolar disorder. Stacie was diagnosed in her twenties, when she experienced an episode of psychosis that resulted in her being hospitalized. Stacie describes these events, and others associated with it, that set the stage for a fundamental shift in her worldview and testimony. She gives us a glimpse into what she learned about acceptance of limitations, and ways that this can lead to heightened perspectives and deep peace that would have been unimaginable had she not gone through the frightening experiences surrounding her diagnosis. She talks about a period of time during which she knew she needed to take some space from full activity in the Church, and discusses the stigma associated with mental illness that still often exists within LDS culture. Stacie describes the ways she has been able to reconcile this fact with her faith, and how this paved the way for her to return to active participation in the Church with a renewed sense of identity and purpose. Stacie is very dedicated to the process of fostering community connections, not just within the Church, but also within families, government, and business, and has developed a variety of platforms to promote these ideas. For example, she is the founder and CEO of Gathrd, and is currently serving as Mrs. Vineyard, Utah; she utilizes these positions as way to spread her message: “It Takes a Village: Restoring Community & Connection Through Collaboration”. Stacie also talks about motherhood and ways that living with mental health challenges can impact those she loves most. I am so grateful for Stacie and her willingness to talk about these subjects. It takes a lot of courage to give voice to mental health issues, especially when we dialogue about them as lived experiences, rather than in an academic way. Most people agree that mental health is an important topic but still find it an incredibly uncomfortable thing to talk about. Stacie’s story is brave and compelling, and I am grateful for her willingness to be candid about topics that can be confusing. I believe listeners will feel more hopeful about whatever they are facing after listening to Stacie’s story. As a side note, I am focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care).
My friend Dale Schafer (California Convert, Adelaide Australia ’79-81 RM, Twice Excommunicated, Lives with his husband in Hudson Valley, NY) joins us to share his story his life as a gay Latter-day Saint. Dale starts with his childhood of feeling like an outcast/not belonging because of his sexual attraction to men. Dale talks about his conversation story followed by his desire to serve a mission (good experience). Dale talks about trying to be honest/live with integrity as he did his best to move forward (came out to mom, mission president, BYU counseling center, broke off an engagement, and his bishop). Dale talks about being excommunicated but then rebaptized while at Utah State and then moving to Boston where he stepped away from the Church—but always felt it was his spiritual home. Dale talks about these years including becoming HIV+ and how his testimony kept him alive. Dale talks about finding his husband (been together for over twenty years) and also attending his local LDS branch (positive experiences with branch president and missionaries). Dale talks about being excommunicated for the second time when the November 2015 policy and how he wishes that had turned out differently. Dale talks about his deep testimony of the Church, God’s love, his wish to take to sacrament—all with a personal feeling this will all work out and “follow me, and all will be well.”. I wish I could include more of Dale’s story shared on the podcast in this brief description. I was so moved listening to Dale’s story and grateful for his courage to share it with our listeners. You are a good man, Dale. All my love and support. Your story will help so many! Links: Dale’s e-mail: daleschafer@gmail.com Dale’s Instagram: @daleschafer
My friend Scott Gover (late 40’s, lives north of London, left church in his 20’s, returned 18 years later, active for last 11 years) joins us to share his story. Scott starts with his growing up years having a deep testimony of the Church and also realizing his was gay. After many unanswered prayers to change his sexual orientation, Scott concluded “I was so evil, that I was beyond God’s love and the atonement” and was going to end up somewhere between “outer darkness and the telestial kingdom.” It’s heartbreaking to hear Scott’s conclusions—which are logical conclusions for a closeted gay Latter-day Saint. Scott talks about eventually leaving the Church for 18 years—even with a testimony of the Church all those years. Scott talks talking to Elder Murdock and Cuche and deeply spiritual experience including Elder Murdock’s testimony that led Scott back into the Church. Scott talks about a disciplinary council (positive experience) that returned him to full fellowship, a Stake that put him to work (Elder Quorum President, High Councilor, etc), and a loving a supportive Ward family including his lifelong friend Lillian. It is a beautiful story of belonging and creating Zion. Scott talks about living “without all the answers” for queer people in the Church and his hope for more light and understanding. Scott talks about his Stake Conference talk (see show notes) being led by the Spirit to talk about being a gay Latter-day Saint—and all the positive/supportive comments he received. I was so moved listening to Scott. His spiritual maturity, his ability to survive his early years, his journey out and then back into the Church, his support system, and all the good he is going to help others feel God’s love and the healing powerful of the Atonement. Scott is helping expand the boarders of Zion and bring more hope, unity, and healing." Links: Stake Conference Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsM3SvNqFTs&t=3660s E-mail: uther2006@yahoo.co.uk Blog: http://www.thebookofgrover.co.uk/ Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This episode is guest-hosted by my friend Steven Kapp Perry from the “In Good Faith” podcast. He interviews John Gustav-Wrathall (a dear friend and mentor) who appeared in an early episode—Episode 49—which we’ll link to below. John shares some of his earliest spiritual experiences, which gave him a solid faith in God, and then describes his journey of listening to and following the clear promptings of the Spirit, even when that inspiration surprised him and was not what he was expecting. That included a life-saving impression to step away from the church for a time, and then, surprisingly, a call to return to it.We’ll also hear how John’s patience in certain painful situations at church later led to growth and change in the very people who had caused that distress. Thanks, John, for your courage to continue to share your story. I learn so much from you. Links: Episode 49: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-49-john-gustav-wrathall-same-sex-marriage-affirmation-executive-director Link to Emmaus Ministry: http://www.emmauslgbtq.org Link to the In Good Faith podcast: http://www.byuradio.org/ingoodfaith Link to Episode 586: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-586-steven-kapp-perry-gay-latter-day-saint-byu-employee-israel-tour-director
My friend Jacob Troxel (who recorded this podcast three weeks after his successful mission in Canada Edmonton) joins us to bravely share his experiences as a gay Latter-day Saint and one of the first openly gay missionaries in the Church (which is noted on his Facebook profile). Jacob (who grew up in Camarillo) talks about realizing he might be different around age 12 and then came out to his Bishop and parents at age 16. Jacob talks about how he probably wouldn’t have stayed in the Church without the loving first response from his Bishop. Jacob talks about a powerful spiritual experience where his belief in God shifted from “having a testimony that He doesn’t love someone like me—to God is perfectly loving and loves me.” That is the anchor knowledge that has given Jacob peace as a gay Latter-day Saint and his burning desire to serve a mission so others could know that important gospel truth. Jacob takes us on his mission and shares the both the difficult experiences and the positive ones—ones where lives were changed. Jacob talks about the importance of proximity with stories of how companions did a “180” to full love, understand and support Jacob. These stories give me hope. Jacob also talks about how investigators and members concluded from Jacob’s example that “if there is room for Elder Troxel in the Church, maybe there is room for me.” Jacob is honest the positive experiences—made possible because he was open—and how those were matched by deeply wounding experiences which reminds me of Zechariah 13:6 “…. wounded in the house of my friends.” Jacob talks about boundaries, being honest with his pain, and finding grace for others. Jacob talks about his supportive parents as he makes his way forward. This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done as I was so moved listening to Jacob—a very mature soul. If you are considering a mission, on a mission or want to better support queer Latter-day Saints, this podcast will help you. Thank you, Jacob, for your serve in Canada and helping many feel the love of God and a home in our restored Church. Thank you for your courage to serve—you are a trailblazer for others who will walk this road. Thank you for helping us expanding the boarders of Zion so more feel welcome, understood, and needed in our Church and beyond. You have a great life ahead of you! Lists: Jacob’s e-mail: jacobrtroxel@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/jacob.troxel.18 Instagram: www.instagram.com/jacobrtroxel/Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-Day Saint FB Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Lindsey Sais joins us to share her powerful story. Lindsey (early 40s, married for 5 years to her wife Connie, lives in Raleigh NC) joins us to bravely share her story of being divorced at age 23, coming out as gay that same year, working through addiction, being an ex-felon, and suicidal ideation. Lindsey talks about how addiction is not a moral failure—but rather a human reality from taking drugs/alcohol—which often starts to escape pain. Lindsey shares the process she took (along with God’s help) to become sober on Feb 13, 2013—it is a moving story that gives hope to others. Lindsey talks about how Christ’s love/atonement is not earned—it is just there for all of us—and how she accesses that love in her darkest days to feel hope and healing. Lindsey shared many lessons, perspectives, and insights for those in dark places to find a way forward—and the positive role of her parents on this long road. Lindsey talks about finding her soulmate in her wife Connie and how that relationship (based on trust, communication, and loyalty) has helped her become a better person and have more stability. Lindsey, who had her Latter-day Saint membership withdrawn in 2022, talks about her constant testimony of the Church and attending her supportive Ward. Thank you, Lindsey, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story which helps so many find hope, healing, and peace. Honored to have you on the podcast and feel such a strong Sprit as you share your story. Links: Lindsay on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/palomas.gris https://www.instagram.com/kantyoudigitLift and Love Story: https://www.instagram.com/p/CVA-1laBcnh/?igsh=MWc2NXNxM2hrcmQ3eA%3D%3DMinistering to LGBTQ Latter-Day Saint FB Group: Ministering Resources to support LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints
My friends Josh and Jen Rollins (married for 26 years, parents of 5, live in Riverton Utah, active LDS) share their story of their middle child Aiden coming out as gay, then their oldest children Jace coming out as gay and later transgender, and then their second-oldest Chelsea coming out as bisexual. Josh (who was serving as Bishop during much of this time) and Jen share how their family went from fitting the perfect Latter-day Saint mold to where they are today—a beautiful family united in their love for each other and creating space for the lived experiences of each family member. Jen and Josh are honest that their journey has been difficult as their LGBTQ kids didn’t find it possible to find a place in the Church—and how they needed to reconstruct their hopes/dreams. Jen and Josh talk about their constant reliance of prayer and direction from Heavenly Parents. Jen and Josh talk about how having LGBTQ kids isn’t a “trial”—because their kids are great human beings doing much good in the world—that there is nothing wrong or that needs to be fixed with their sexual orientation/gender identity—but rather the “trial” is for their LGBTQ kids to find a place in the Church full of hope, support and understanding. I was so moved listening to Jen and Josh—two wonderful parents who have been on this road for 5+ years. If you are a new to the blessing of being a parent (or family member/ally) to a LGBTQ child, please listen to this episode—it will give you insights to walk your road and love your LGBTQ loved one. Jen and Josh conclude on why they stay members of the Church. Thank you, Jen and Josh, for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. Links: Jan 2024 Leading Saints Story: leadingsaints.org/the-portrait-of-an-lbgtq-family-he-is-at-the-helm/April 2021 Lift and Love Profile: www.instagram.com/p/COQIkF3h2ku/?img_index=1Nov 2020 Human Stories Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/77-human-stories-jessica-and-josh-rollins/id1468623842?i=1000500809211Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-Day Saint FB Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Lily Prisbrey—who recently returned from both a proselyting mission (Philippines) and a service mission (Utah). She joins us to give her farewell talk. In this talk, Lily bravely talks about:Her journey with scrupulosity and faith-related guilt.Finding a loving, accepting, and NOT “ever-disappointed” God.Finding God in the Filipino people.Finding God through a Mission President who listened to doubts without judging and supported Lily’s decision to end her proselyting mission early.Finding God through failure.Inviting others to serve missions who don’t fit the mold.Lily concludes her talk with her powerful testimony of a loving God with 1 John 4: “God is love” and these words: “I am not a black and white, fit the mold, perfect kind of person. But I served as a missionary—and I hope that through what I’ve shared today—you all can see that if I can be a missionary, you can too”. We conclude with a discussion about her talk. Lily brings powerful insights into how to help everyone feel loved, accepted, and that there is room them. Lily is so brave and vulnerable—a sign of strength and discipleship that pattens how to help others feel welcome, safe, and needed. Thank you for being on the podcast Lily. I was so moved by your homecoming talk. Honored to provide a platform where more can hear your inspiring message. Links: Lily’s homecoming talk: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/to9a1bqw6btrihsj7dd67/Lily-Prisbrey-Homecoming-Talk-Feb-2024.pdf?rlkey=80xppy4jibj9np2kwjhyfob6e&dl=0
My friend Zak Hazlett (Masters Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from BYU) joins us from his home in Moab, Utah to talk about his life mission to bring more kindness, love, understanding into our community. Zak (who grew up running rivers in Southern Utah) talks about merging this love of the outdoors and his desire to help others into a career as a therapist and relationship coach—which is captured in his fast-growing Instagram Account called @the_outdoor_therapist.In the podcast, Zak talks about how to better love and accept ourselves, love others, learn to forgive ourselves/others, find hope/healing and be a better people. Zak also talks about working as a student therapist in the BYU Comprehensive Clinic—where he had many visits with queer BYU students. He talks about what he learned, how to better listen, how we don’t always have the answer, how his heart changed, and how he loves this group of people. I was deeply moved listening to Zak—his great heart—his work—and his ability to communicate principles in an effective and practical way to bless others/help ourselves. Zak represents a rising generation focused on love, understanding, inclusion and healing. Zak—and thousands more like him—give me hope for the future. Honored to have you on the podcast. I encourage everyone to listen to the episode and follow your Instagram account. Links: Zak’s Instagram Account: @the_outdoor_therapist
Our friend Ben Schilaty (who recently turned 40 and is co-host with Charlie Bird on the Questions from the Closet podcast) joins us to talk about his decision to date men, his commitment to our Church and the gospel of Jesus Christ, his decision to leave BYU (on good terms) and start his career as a therapist (Ben has a Masters in this field) focusing of helping LGBTQ folks and their families in Utah. Ben also talks about the new Gatherings groups using the Book of Mormon/Come Follow Me to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Ben concluded with his latest insights from the Book of Mormon. As usual, I was deeply moved listening to Ben’s latest thoughts on his personal life, his career, what we can do to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and his scriptural insights to create Zion. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this podcast. Thank you Ben for all your efforts to create more understanding, unity and hope. Honored to have you on the podcast and count you as a friend! Links: Ben’s Nov 2023 Blog: https://www.benschilaty.com/post/up-to-date Ben’s e-mail: benschilatytherapy@gmail.comBen's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1629728535Questions from the Closet Podcast: questionsfromthecloset.com Gatherings Web Site: https://gather-conference.com/gatherings LDS Ministering Resources Site: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/counseling-resources/same-sex-attraction
My British friends Sam and Jen Norton (married parents of four, living near London England) join us to talk about their work to help younger Latter-day Saints feel welcome, needed and that they belong—allowing them to bring their individuality to help build Zion and access the Atonement of Jesus Christ to bring healing to themselves and others. Sam and Jen take the gospel of Jesus Christ and —in a unique way—turn that into action with the London FSY events over the past two years—which included 500+ youth from over 95 nationalities. With the help of their dedicated team of forward-thinking youth leaders, they talk about these events that created a safe and welcoming place for the youth to feel welcome and needed so they could come unto Christ in their way and access His healing. Sam and Jen then talk about Sam’s new book (with Jen writing the foreword and conclusion) where Sam talks about how to put gospel principles into action so that more of our younger members feel welcome and that their contributions/insight/vision help us grow the Church and strengthen Zion. If you are working to create a safer and more welcoming culture in your area of influence (church assignment and/or family), I encourage you to read this book and listen to this podcast. It is one of the finest we’ve done. Thank you, Sam and Jen, for all your brave/trailblazing work in our Church. Thank you for helping us expand the borders of Zion. Links: New Book: “Come as You Are: Creating Space for the Rising Generation to Come Unto Christ”: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462146392 New Book Instagram Account: https://www.instagram.com/cayasayhello/ E-Mail: cayasayhello@gmail.com London FSY Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/fsylondon/
My friend Kurt Francom (founder and executive director of Leading Saints) joins us to talk about his new book called “Is God Disappointed In Me? Removing Shame From A Gospel of Grace”. In the podcast, Kurt (who has done 100s and 100s of interviews with local Latter-day Saint leaders) talks about why he wrote the book, the need for this type of book, and what he hopes it helps accomplish. I agree with Kurt that shame has no place in the Gospel and grateful for Kurt putting his years of learning into a book to help our Latter-day Saint community. I encourage everyone to read and share Kurt’s book. Thank you for being on the podcast Kurt and all your needed work to help create Zion. Links: Kurt’s Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CT67RS86 Leading Saints: https://leadingsaints.org/
My friend Camille McConnell (married LDS mother of 5 who was on episode 292) joins us to talk about her new book called “Let the Angels Carry You: Coping & Connecting When Loved Ones Pass On." In the podcast, Camille talks about how to connect with our loved ones who have died and have them be part of our lives. She also talks about how to find hope, peace, and purpose following the tragic and sudden loss of a child or someone close to us. Camille also talks about what we can do to better support those dealing with grief—and how simple platitudes like “he is in a better place” are not helpful. I learned so much from Camille’s insights. If you are dealing with grief or want better insights/tools to help others, please check out this podcast and buy Camille’s book. Thank you for being on the podcast Camille (and I felt Wesley with us) and all your great/needed work in our community. Links: Camille’s book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Let-Angels-Carry-You-Connecting/dp/B0CQK4PYCS Camille’s earlier episode on this platform: https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-292-jeff-and-camille-mcconnell-son-wesley-age-3-died-in-a-chocking-accident Camile's website: ConnectwithCamille.com
Trigger Warning: This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 * In this solo episode, I talk about the focus of the podcast going forward, the Allegory of the Olive Tree/Vineyard (Jacob 5) and how it applies to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, and a personal update. Thank you for all your support of our podcast. Love, Richard Links: Richard Ostler e-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com Bio: papaostler.com Facebook Support Group for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Spencer King (Sapporo Japan RM): https://www.spencerking.link/
My friend Jana Spangler (Certified Integral Profession Coach at Symmetry Solutions, alumnus of The Living School, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about stages of faith using Brian McLaren’s 4-stage model of simplicity, complexity, perplexity, and harmony. This is a powerful model to understand the various roads Latter-day Saints are walking. Jana—a sought-after speaker, presenter, retreat leader and podcast guest on this subject—has many years of experience in this space from both her personal journey, professional work, and academic experience to give Latter-day Saints tools and vocabulary to understand a faith transition within themselves and provide better support to others. Jana is someone I consider an expert in this field for Latter-day Saints. Her work helped me in my own journey during my faith transition as I desired to stay a committed Latter-day Saint and needed more tools, principals, and perspective. Thank you, Jana, for your wonderful/needed work in our community to bring us together, reduce tension, and help us be more united. Links: Symmetry Solutions: symmetrypath.com/ Brian McLaren Book “Faith after Doubt”: brianmclaren.net/ Jana’s Faith Matter’s Podcast: faithmatters.org/faith-journey-101-a-conversation-with-jana-spangler/ Jana’s At She Said It Podcast: atlastshesaidit.org/episode-134-what-about-religious-trauma/ Church’s New Resources on Listening: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/helping-others-with-their-questions/03-listen-with-humility Other New Church Resource supporting those with question: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/life/church-and-gospel-questions
Trigger Warning: This episode talks about electroshock therapy and suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friend Adam joins us to share his story of coming out in the early 90’s in a church where we generally believed that “something had gone wrong” with someone having same-sex attraction that could be identified and then ‘fixed” through conversation therapy and in the case of Adam (and others) electroshock therapy—and increased spiritual practices (prayer, fasting, church attendance). Adam shares his heart wrenching story of wanting to be a “good Mormon boy” and doing anything asked of him over a 5-year period to be straight and root out the “deviant nature” of his same-sex attraction. Adam takes us back to the 70s/80s/90s to what was being written in BYU publications and said by church leaders about homosexuals. Adam talks about how we "can’t heal without addressing the past”. Adam talks about his plans for suicide, delaying those plans for one day, and then leaving the Church for a more understanding/supportive environment. Adam talks about how his suicidal ideation ended in his new environment. Adam talks about finding his husband and their nearly 24 years together. Adam talks about how he “always had a testimony” and spiritual impressions to go back to church a few years ago (Adam is no longer a member). He talks about his loving/accepting Bishop and ward. He talks about how he loves his husband and the goodness of their marriage and also how the LDS church is his spiritual home. Adam (who spent two months writing his story for the podcast) gives us insights into the crushing pain/shame of conversation/electroshock therapy. I was brought to tears several times during the podcast. I was also brought to tears with Adam’s courage to walk back into an LDS chapel. I was deeply impressed with the delicate line Adam walked in the podcast of being true to his story/pain and also showing grace to church leaders/others. Adam's story brings helps us understand where we once were as a Church, the progress we have made, and help us all consider how to better love, validate, heal, and support our LGBTQ friends. It also helps us understand our past so we can talk about, learn, not make the same mistakes, and heal from our past. Thank you, Adam, for being alive, building a life with your husband, keeping God in your life, and sharing your story. Your story helps parents, allies, and local leaders—"when we know better, we do better” (Dr. Brene Brown). It also helps younger LGBTQ Latter-day Saints as they make their way forward. You are a good man. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: scholarsarchive.byu.edu/irp/vol19/iss1/ archive.org/stream/McBrideThesisElectroshockTherapy/McBride%20thesis%20electroshock%20therapy_djvu.txt Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Ben and Rebecca Lesue (parents of nine, recently moved from SW Missouri to Monument Valley Utah, non-binary/queer child) join us to share their story. They start with their journey to understand LGBTQ Latter-day Saints following Rebecca’s brother coming out as gay. They then share the story of their own child coming out as queer/non-binary then stepping away from the Church. Rebecca talks about learning “her job is not to cause them to turn out a certain way” but to “love and nurture”. Ben and Rebecca then talk about the 5th Sunday lesson they gave in their Ward about faith transitions. They talk about models of faith including simplicity, complexity, and harmony. Ben talks about how he learned his own “faith crisis” is normal, healthy, and positive. He talks about the work of Jared Halverson (LDS Institute Teacher) to normalize faith transitions. Ben and Rebecca talk about how fear and doubt are not opposites of faith—but part of developing a stronger and more sustainable faith. Ben and Rebecca discuss how this whole process has strengthened their marriage and their relationship with God, enabled more love for others, and facilitated sustainable membership in the Church. The Lesue story is a beautiful and powerful family love story. I was so moved listening to and learning from them. If you have a family member who is queer and/or are going through a faith transition and desire to stay in the Church, their story will help you. Thank you, Ben and Rebecca, for being on the podcast and your work to bring us together and create Zion. Links: Lift and Love Story: www.liftandlove.org/stories/the-lesue-family 5th Sunday Lesson: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2u3jqnqfei7qbsunw2pr5/5th-Sunday-Lesson-Ben-Lesue-Podcast.docx?rlkey=3kc6xwv7tyhnf7htxatway50m&dl=0 Facebook group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com
My friend Clare Dalton (who shared her story as a gay Latter-day Saint on episode 583) joins us to announce the exciting news of a companion curriculum from Gather and Lift+Love to help LGBTQ+ individuals and families see themselves in the 2024 Come, Follow Me study of the Book of Mormon. Clare talks about the accessibility of this program (which includes a downloadable monthly .pdf) designed to add additional content to Come, Follow Me that helps teachers, local leaders, LGBTQ+ families, allies, and people holding or wanting to start LGBTQ+ support groups, bring to life principles and insights from the Book of Mormon to support LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints. Clare shares her goal: “I want everyone to see themselves in the scriptures” and the importance of representation. If you are looking for Christ-centered/Church-supportive content to better support LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints as part of our study of the Book of Mormon in 2024, please check out this podcast and download/share these .pdf guides. Thank you, Clare, and everyone involved. There is such a need for this kind of content as we work to create Zion and gather LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints (who have been unfortunately “scattered” as we talk about in this episode). Links: Gather Lessons (GATHERings):gather-conference.com/gatherings Gather Conference Videos:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJagCCAaE-MHHZgkrMyrG4g Clare Dalton, earlier podcast:podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-583-clare-dalton-gay-latter-day-saint-seminary/id1347971725?i=1000585581110 Instagram weekly content and live videos will be available through:@gatherconf@liftandloveorg@clare.ify.it
My friends Liz Giles (from Yakima Washington, RM, BYU Grad) and Ryan Giles (from South Jordan Utah, RM, BYU Grad) join us to share their story. Liz and Ryan start with becoming friends at BYU, accidentally falling in love, and then* figuring out their sexualities. Ryan states, “You don’t fall in love with a girl unless you are wired for girls.” Liz talks about her decision to serve a mission and coming to terms with her sexuality during that time. Both Ryan and Liz served faithful and honorable missions.After Liz returned from her mission, Ryan and Liz share how they navigated their close friendship while at BYU, decide to begin dating a year later, and get married in 2021. They talk about the options they explored as queer Latter-day Saints and the personal revelation they received to walk a fourth option—being in a same-sex marriage and continuing to participate in Church (as much as they are allowed to).They talk about the love and support they are receiving from many church members. They also talk about their fears and what we can do as Latter-day Saints to lower their fears/anxiety so church attendance can continue and provide the hope/peace that worshiping Jesus brings.They finish with talking about a new Instagram account they started called The Forth Option @the.fourth.option and the need to give grace/support for queer Latter-day Saints and former Latter-day Saints walking other roads.Thank you, Liz and Ryan, for being on the podcast. You are a wonderful couple. I learned so much from you. Glad more are hearing your story. Liz and Ryan’ Instagram Account: @the.fourth.option Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.comFacebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Andrew Davis (age 31, self-employed, active LDS, same-sex attraction, podcast host) joins us to bravely share his story. Andrew (who is a son of my awesome mission companion Jamison Davis) courageously talks about his growing up years navigating his attraction to men, porn use, anxiety, and fear—and his prayers for this all to be taken from him. Andrew talks about how his relationship with God and the Savior helped him find peace and hope in his life—including that his SSA attraction/thoughts are not a sin—but acting on them is. Andrew talks about his plans to live a covenant keeping life, how his primary label is a child of God, and his plans to marry a woman in the Temple. Andrews talks about the need for more stories of Latter-day Saints with SSA who have conservative views and are living lives within Church teachings—and the need to better support these members. This led to Andrew starting a podcast called “Sons of God: Conservative Views on Faith & Same-Sex Attraction.” I was deeply moved listening to Andrew and this commitment to the Gospel, faith, self-awareness and finding peace on a very difficult road. You are a good man Andrew—thank you for your courage to share your story—it helps reduce shame, gives hopes, and helps more feel belonging. Your work is helping so many! Links: Facebook page: www.facebook.com/sonsofgodpodcast Email: contact.sonsofgodpodcast@gmail.com Linktree: linktr.ee/sonsofgodpodcastRichard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Trigger Warning: This podcast discusses suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My brave friend Jessy Markowitz joins us from Las Vegas to share her story. Jessy starts with the realities of her life resulting in immense pain and, at times, loss of hope. Jessy talks about her father’s death at age 4, being sexually assaulted, and then her brother Dennis’ death from suicide in Feb 2017. Jessy was very close to Dennis and talks about the pain of his death. Jessy, now a married mother, talks about feeling so much darkness and lack of hope in her life following Dennis’ death. Jessy talks about the deeply spiritual experiences that led her to Jesus and to membership in the Church (and later her husband). Jessy talks about the dramatic contrast between her life without Jesus and her life now with Jesus, the Church, and the healing power of His atonement. It is a remarkable story that gives hope to everyone. Jessy talks about her love of the temple (including her husband Mitch doing the proxy work for her brother and father). Jessy concludes with her testimony of the Church, Jesus, BYU-Pathways, and her plans to write a book. I was so moved listening to Jessy’s powerful story and testimony. Thank you, Jessy, to being on the podcast and your work to help everyone feel the love, peace, and hope of Jesus. You are a remarkable woman and help make this world a better place. Links: Instagram: @mychallengehisstrength E-mail: markowitzjess@gmail.com Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com
My friend Dallin Patton (from Tucson, Kansas Wichita Mission RM, Senior in Social Work at Utah State University) joins us to bravely share his story. Dallin discusses the years before his mission (navigating his identity, some conversion therapy, and mostly putting it in a “box at the back of his head”). These were difficult years for Dallin. Dallin talks about his decision to serve a mission (spent most of his time in Wichita, Kansas) and often being filled with anxiety that someone would discover his sexual orientation. Dallin talks about how his mission was both incredibly hard and amazing—and how the anxiety and depression led to him coming home after about 17 months of service. Dallin then talks about attending Utah State and dating women as that was his “only hope for a normal life” and “being gay was like a death sentence”. After not being able to make it work with a woman, Dallin talks about how he moved out of the dark space to more light and hope including personal revelation stating “Dallin you are gay and that is OK”. Dallin talks about starting a chapter of the “Queer Christian Initiative” at Utah State and the need for safe spaces for those that are queer and Christians. Dallin concludes talking about how his emotional health and hope for the future “has never been better”. If you are queer and trying to find hope, Dallin’s story will help you. If you are a parent, friend and/or ally to queer Latter-day Saints, Dallin’s story will help you. Thank you, Dallin, for being on the podcast. You are a great man with a wonderful future. This world is a better place with Dallin Patton in it! Links: Dallin Patton’s IG: @dallin.pattonRichard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friends Margaret Olsen Hemming and Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh (who was on Episode 710) join us to talk about their latest (and final) volume of “The Book of Mormon for the Least of These, Volume 3: Helaman-Moroni.” Margaret and Fatimah share some of the behind-the-scenes story of working together to write these books, their personal journeys with the Book of Mormon, and what they hope to accomplish with their books. Their work helps us read the book from a social justice perspective that speaks to issues of racism, sexism, immigrations, refugees, and socioeconomic inequality—and then consider what we can do in our circle of influence to be better disciples of Christ. I was so moved listening to these inspiring scholars, authors, theologians, and disciples. I will be using their books as I study the Book of Mormon in 2024 and look for things I need to change in my world view to better love, see, and support those walking a harder road. Thank you, Margaret and Fatimah, for your wonderful work. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Book of Mormon for the Least of These (published by my friends at BCC Press): Volume 1: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218232 Volume 2: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218585 Volume 3: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218992
My friend Sofia Jones (from Bakersfield California, joined Church in March 2021, mid-20s) join us to share her story. Sofia (who grew up Christian) talks about changing her initial assumptions about Latter-day Saints and being willing to meet with the missionaries, read the Book of Mormon, and be baptized. It is a beautiful conversation story with insights on the added gospel understanding unique to our restored Church—which brings peace, hope and perspective. Sofia then talks about being willing to consider her sexual orientation and how her YSA Ward is a safe place to be LGBTQ—including her ward member Adam Garrett (episode 508) who shared helpful insights. Sofia talks about how she never considered that being LGBTQ would be OK to God and compatible with being a Christian. She talks about her journey to find acceptance within herself—and the role of personal revelation—of being asexual and a lesbian. Sofia talks about how “God still loves you and God is still for you”. This is a wonderful podcast for someone considering joining the Church (or trying to stay in) and/or someone trying to find peace/acceptance with their sexual orientation or gender identity. Thank you, Sofia, for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are a wonderful disciple of Christ Our Church and world are a better place because of you. You have a great life ahead of you! Links:Sofia's Instagram: @sofiamjones Richard Ostler books/bio/etc.: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Dr. Heidi Hastings joins us to talk about her research around betrayal trauma for women in marriages (largely around a husband’s pornography use) She is married, LDS, mother of 4, lives in Frisco, Texas, sex and marriage researcher/educator, teaches Family Stress and Coping for BYU-Idaho online, Master’s and Ph.D. degrees in Human Development and Family Studies from Texas Woman’s University. Dr. Hastings vulnerably shares some of her own story, as well as her research, which includes a model she developed as part of her Ph.D. dissertation called “Stages of Betray of Self-Development.” The five stages (innocence, crisis, aftermath, healing, and transformation) are so helpful to those walking the road of betrayal trauma and those working to help them. Dr. Hastings concludes with important takeaways, including the role of God, how Jesus is “relief,” women need women to heal, the need for couples to communicate about pornography and sexuality, and the unhelpful role of shame in keeping pornography use “underground.” This is one of the most helpful, insightful, and powerful podcasts we’ve done on seeing, understanding, and solving betrayal trauma and how it is possible to move forward with peace, hope, and healing. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast for the insights and principles Dr. Hastings shares that can help each of us have better/more healthy relationships. It also provides tools and ideas to help others in our areas of responsibility. Thank you, Dr. Hastings, for your groundbreaking work, which is so needed in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast!Richard "Papa" Ostler Links: Dr. Hastings' email: dr.heidihastings@gmail.com Jesus is Relief talk based on her research: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjfGurwMl9g Google Form for submitting your story to help influence the direction of Dr Hastings' new book: https://forms.gle/Ffkg6h483ewzptBK8 Mood Log exercise to help change distressing thought patterns (see https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/s6cdjhdoumzqijgx198ur/Mood-logs-Dr-Hastings-Podcast.doc?rlkey=35zxda71dwbqh5065kxrd6hei&dl=0). For details about how to implement this form, check out the full book, When Panic Attacks by D. D. Burns (2006).
My friend Meagan Skidmore (lives in Dallas, LDS parent of a transgender son, life coach, podcaster) joins us to talk about her 4+ year journey of parenting a LGBTQ kiddo. Meagan, in one of the most heartfelt podcasts we’ve done, talks about what parents can do to support their LGBTQ child and what parents can do to take care of themselves. Meagan talks about her own journey to educate herself, separate political rhetoric from facts, being curious, practical ways to listen better, importance of stories, mourning, and personal revelations from God. This is a beautiful family love story. If you are looking for the voice of a thoughtful and seasoned parent in this space, I encourage you to listen to Meagan’s podcast and check out her work. I learned so much from Meagan. Thank you, Meagan, for being on the podcast and all your heartfelt work to bring more understanding, love and support. You are making a huge difference for good in our community! Links: Meagan Skidmore Web Page: meaganskidmorecoaching.com/ Meagan’s Life and Love Story: liftandlove.org/stories/the-meagan-skidmore-story Podcast: Beyond the Shadow of Doubt™: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-shadow-of-doubt/id1641584986 Social Media:Instagram: instagram.com/meaganskidmorecoachingFacebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064267982984TikTok: tiktok.com/@meaganskidmorecoachingLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/meaganskidmore Additional podcast interviews where I share my story, starting with most recent: 10/26/23 Become a Trauma Informed Coach podcast, episode #53: More inclusivity for the LGBTQIA+ community with Meagan Skidmore (lindsaypoelmancoaching.com/blog/episode53) 08/01/23 Latter-day Life Coach Directory podcast, episode #136: Real connection through vulnerability with Meagan Skidmore (ldslifecoaches.com/episode/136-real-connection-through-vulnerability-with-meagan-skidmore/) 03/21/23, Not Your Mama's RS podcast: Choose Love: parenting children who are LGBTQ+ with Meagan Skidmore (podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/annie-carter/episodes/Choose-Love-Parenting-Children-who-are-LGBQT-e20s9dt/a-a95on4s) 12/13/22 Latter-day Life Coach Directory podcast, episode #103: Faith-filled questioning with Meagan Skidmore (ldslifecoaches.com/episode/103-faith-filled-questioning-with-meagan-skidmore/) 02/24/22 Coaching Your Family Relationships podcast, episode #37:Love and peace with your LGBTQ+ child with Meagan Skidmore(podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/love-and-peace-with-your-lgbtq-child-with-meagan-skidmore/id1575423161?i=1000552084613)
My friends Katherine and Jeff Wise (parents of six sons and one daughter, living in the Bay Area ) invite us into the sacred space of their tender story of their youngest son Talmage coming out as gay at age 17 in 2013. Katherine and Jeff (who was serving as a Bishop at the time) talk about their fears, reactions, things they wish they did better, how to find resources, and the personal revelation they received to love and support Talmage. It is a beautiful family love story. They update us on Talmage’s life (he has a wonderful boyfriend and is living his best self in New York) and their continued love for Talmage and his partner Matt. They talk about how they don’t have fears of “empty chairs” in the next life. Katherine and Jeff talk about doing a one-time fireside in their home in March, 2015, focused on supporting LGBTQ members and how that led to The Hearth—a monthly gathering in the Wise home that continues today. They talk about the importance of creating a community of support and love where we can share in each other’s journeys. Katherine and Jeff talk about why they stay active members of the Church—even with the pain of the “dark corner” of this space within our Church. It’s a moving part of their story seeing the aggregate good of the Church while living with the reality of the pain of many LGBTQ members and their families. This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done with parents of an LGBTQ child. Katherine and Jeff have been on this road for 10 years and have mature insights, principles, and perspective to share with others. They also have the long-view of improvements being made over the past ten years—while acknowledging we still have much work to do. This is also an excellent podcast for anyone considering putting together a support group in their area of influence. Thank you, Katherine and Jeff, for opening your hearts and sharing your beautiful family story! Links: The Hearth: www.ldshearth.org/ Elder Daines Conference Talk: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/10/13daines Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Sean Stansberry (living in New Bern, North Carolina; college student, joined the Church in April 2021) joins us to share his story. Sean starts with joining the church during coronavirus and getting baptized 2.5 weeks later. Sean talks about receiving the priesthood, blessing the sacrament, and attending the temple and being part of young men’s and the youth group for a few months before switching to elders quorum/adult sunday school. Sean talks about the blessing in his life from Church membership. Sean continues with His love of the temple and receiving his endowment and the peace and no-judgment that is part of his temple experience. Sean talks about coming out publicly on social media and in church being SSA and how that was with both positive and difficult experiences at Church in his home ward and his local YSA branch and some experiences that he has had with his church leaders both present and past church leaders. Sean talks about how he navigates the difficult experiences and why he stays a member of the church. Sean concludes with his plans to serve a mission and attending the temple and how the spirit is his constant companion. Thank you, Sean, for being on the podcast. I was so moved hearing your story of courage and faith. You are brave. You are a good man and make this world a better place. Thank you for being on the podcast! Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sean.stansberryy Instagram: https://instagram.com/fypsean Twitter: twitter.com/fypseanRichard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.comFacebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Seth Larson (BYU grad, Bolivia RM, active Latter-day Saint) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about trying to date women in hopes of making the typical path work in the Church and his desire to have a family and fully participate in the Church. Seth talks about feeling suicidal and “sub-par” because of being gay and not being able to make that path work—and shares honest journal entrees with his feelings. Seth talks about being open with his parents and therapist leading to his decision to date men. Seth talks about going slow, being intentional, and involving family/friends/his Bishop in the journey. Seth talks about feeling (for the first time) warm, safe, and secure. Seth talks about how his hope increased and anxiety decreased as he opened his heart/mind to this path. Seth talks about how church and the temple became triggering for him and what his Bishop did to validate these feelings and minister to him. Seth talks about why he is currently in the Church—but not sure of his long-term future. Seth talks about the character of God and Jesus—and how Christ is not “waiting for us to turn around” before helping us. Thank you, Seth, for your courage to share your story in hopes of helping others. I learned so much from you. I encourage allies to listen to this podcast and then consider what we can do in our circle of influence to better support queer Latter-day Saints. And I encourage queer Latter-day Saints to listen to Seth’s story to gain insights and principles to write your story with Christ. You are a good man, Seth. You have blessed many lives with your many gifts—something I believe will continue your entire life. This world is a better place with you (and all my queer friends) part of it. Links:Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.comFacebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Meka Reed (baptized with her husband in October 2020, Lives in Ohio) joins us to talk about her conversation story and her new book called “My Dot Matters: Rediscovering Faith by Realizing Self-Worth”. Meka starts with her life being defined by suicidal ideation and being in the psych ward—and how they all changed when she read the Book of Mormon for the first time. That led to her attending church and getting baptized (and married) on the same day on October 10, 2020. Meka talks about how she still has mental health challenges—but suicide ideation has ended as the Gospel of Jesus Christ has provided healing, hope and purpose. Meka then talks about the spiritual impressions to write and book and the process to get it published. This is a powerful book about finding worth and meaning—and how that happened for Meka in her conversation to the Church. Thank you Meka for being on the podcast. I was so moved hearing your story. You are brave and strong—and helping many others find hope and purpose! Links: Meka’s New Book: https://mydotmatters.com/
My friend Drew Young (married father of two, author, certified life coach) joins us to talk about his powerful new book called “Wonderful Counselor: A God Who Will Help Us Through Our Darkest Times”. Drew talks about how his own life experiences (his molding years) have helped him understand the limitless role of Christ in our lives to be our “Counselor” to “take our hand and lead us.” Drew talks about how Jesus wants us to be seen, heard, healed, and understood. I was so moved listening to Drew share insights about Jesus and his power/desire to help us. The book has short chapters (twenty-one), using Drew’s own experiences, to help us such as “Jesus Counsels Those Who Feel Crushed”, “Jesus Counsels Those Who Need a Miracle”, and “Jesus Counsels Those who Feel It’s Too Late.” If you want to better understand Jesus and his power to heal, bring peace and hope, I encourage you to check out Drew’s latest book. Thank you Drew for being on the podcast. You are a good man doing much good in our world! Links: Drew’s Newest Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462145019 Drew’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mrdrewyoung1 Drew’s Instagram: @mrdrewbyoung Drew’s e-mail: youngbandrew@gmail.com
My friend Kevin Ahlstrom (married father, mid-30’s, active LDS, attorney living in Southern California) joins us to talk about his journey to understand and love his two gay brothers Kyle and Keith. Kevin talks about his earlier years and learning to put aside past conclusions by listening to queer people and then be in a better position to understand, love and support. Kevin talks about seeing healthy, happy same-sex relationships—and how those relationships can thrive just like straight relationships. Kevin talks about the importance of helping queer people not feel shame for who they are, how this isn’t a disability or something that needs to be endured, and what we can do to better support our queer family members. Kevin talks about how our job is to love and not judge. Kevin also talks about his own faith crisis where he and his wife decided to leave the church over this issue—but then decided to stay. Kevin talks about ten ideas he received on what he can do in his circle of influence to support queer members as part of his decision to stay. Kevin also talks about honoring, loving, and supporting those who do step away from the Church. Kevin also talks authentically about why he doesn’t currently hold a temple recommend—but continues to participate/serve in his Ward which he loves and wants to be part of. This was one of the best podcasts we’ve done with a straight family member sharing how to love and support queer family members. It should also be a helpful podcast for LGBTQ members to hear an ally’s voice of love, understanding and support. It is also an excellent podcast for those in a faith crisis over this issue but want to find a way to stay in the Church. Thank you, Kevin, for being on the podcast and being so honest with your thoughts on this tender topic and your relationship with the Church. I was so moved listening to you. Your story will help so many. Links:Kevin’s Facebook post from 2021: www.facebook.com/kevin.ahlstrom.1/posts/pfbid0WJfasUtS3M6sdaa6K4MiLkzQ9qHE7UK5BquQWgLBAEcoJ1Gyy8X3fT8zGYPL58BWl Elder Daines Oct 2023 Conference talk: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/10/13daines?lang=eng Char Ahlstrom (Kevin’s mom) podcast from 2022: soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-581-char-ahlstrom-lds-mother-of-6-two-gay-sonsRichard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Marcus Bowers (BYU grad, two master’s degrees, never married/straight, early release missionary, once suicidal, Iraq veteran) joins us to bravely share his story. Marcus starts with coming home from his mission after two weeks (because of his emotional health) and feeling his path was not to return to full time missionary service and how we can better support early release missionaries. Marcus then talks about getting on with his life (education, military, and his profession) and his journey with mental health issues which culminated in suicidal ideation leading to a stay in a psychiatric ward. Marcus talks about the importance of normalizing mental health struggles, so people feel safe opening up and getting help. Marcus shares what he’d say to his younger self and others feeling suicidal.Marcus then talks about why he stays in the church and resources he used to navigate his own faith crises. Marcus talks about his service in his mid-singles ward and how we can “break the mold” to help all of God’s children feel welcome, needed, valued, and included. Marcus talks how he feels whole, not broken, while still being a work in progress — and not waiting to be married.Thank you, Marcus, for being on the podcast. You are so brave. You are a remarkable man doing much good in our church community and society. Your story helps others. Thank you for your courage to be on the podcast. Links:Marcus on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wanderer.eternalMarcus on Instagram: @marcussmusingsMarcus’ email: bowers.marcus@gmail.comRichard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com
My friend Madison Frederick (in her early 70s) joins us to talk about her new and important book about narcissism. Madison talks about her story to identity being in a narcissistic relationship (father and former husband) and her journey to understand the controlling behavior and the negative impact on her and the relationship. In the book (which took 5 years to write) Madison also talks about learning to undue her behaviors such as enabling and co-dependency. She also talks about gaslighting and how this manipulation is not part of healthy relationship. I was so impressed with Madison’s courage and vulnerability to share her story with a deep desire to help others. I encourage everyone who wants to improve relationships and learn how “being whole and complete” comes from within, to check out Madison’s book. Thank you, Madison, for being on the podcast! Links: Madison’s Book: https://linktr.ee/madisonf1234 Website: www.madisonfrederick.com/ Email: mfrederick2244@aol.com Phone: 385-415-3403
My friend Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh (PhD in Mass Communication, Master’s degree in Public Communication, Master of Divinity from Duke, Married Mother of Four, LDS Author, Grew Up LDS/RM) joins us to share insights about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fatimah (co-author of “The Book of Mormon for the Least of These” a three-volume series; and her new book “Love Memory: A Memoir & A Practice” edited by Marci McPhee) talks about her own story growing up to in a multi-ethnic/culture/religious family and her personal journey in the LDS Church and her “soft separation from the Church” leading to her current role as a Baptist Pastor. Fatimah, who is respectful of the Church, talks about God’s love for all God's children, seeing a social justice charge in our scriptures, and the need to bring those on the margins into full inclusion. Fatimah gives advice for younger people including “being the greatest explorer of your life” and how she, as a clergy member, has a responsibility to learn, grow, apologize, and “do no harm.” On a personal note, Dr Salleh gave a sermon (see show notes) in 2015 called “Theology From the Margins” that gave me the theological perspective and doctrinal foundation to become an ally for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. It was transforming for me as she spoke about the Canaanite woman, not reading the scriptures with the lens of “who is in and who is out”, seeing and using privilege, and being an ally. Thank you, Rev. Dr. Fatimah Salleh, for being on the podcast and your life work to help people find the love of God, bring the human family together, heal each other, and find Jesus. You are a great human doing much good in our world. Links: The Book of Mormon For the Least of These/Volume 1: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218232 The Book of Mormon For the Least of These/Volume 2: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218585 The Book of Mormon For the Least of These/Volume 3: Available Q4 2023 Love Memory: A Memoir & A Practice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFDB372B 2015 Sunstone Speech: https://sunstone.org/2015-theology-from-the-margins-conference-keynote-speech-by-fatimah-salleh/
My friend Jake Yates joins us to bravely share his story. Jake (mid 30’s, RM, father of two, recently divorced, in same-sex relationship, respectful of and believes in the Church) joins us to share his story. Jake starts with the early years (growing up in Sandy, Utah) realizing he was different. Those feelings continued through high school and his mission. Jake, to “prove” he wasn’t gay, was unkind to LGBTQ+ individuals so he wouldn’t be “discovered". Jake talks about returning home from his mission and getting married and then being called to church leadership assignments but feeling two-faced because of his sexual orientation—which led to suicidal ideation. That road continued for many years (including being saved from suicide by his then wife). Jake talks about personal revelation, journaling, scripture study, and his poor emotional health—leading him to come out to his wife (good experience) and then his Bishop (while serving as his counselor; also a good experience) and then his Stake President (also a good experience). These are deeply moving stories of being with someone in one of their most vulnerable moments. Jake talks about his path forward which led to eventually separating from his wife, how they are co-parenting their two sons, and his continued respect for his ex-wife (including his hope for her future). Jake talks about finding his “Knight in Shining Armor” and their healthy/strong relationship and staying connected to Heavenly Father, Jesus and gospel principles. In the closing segment Jake gives thoughtful advice for other LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints. Jake isn’t trying to have others follow his path, but speaks to principles and perspectives to “write your own story” based on personal revelation, going slow, and being intentional. Thank you, Jake, for being on the podcast. You are brave to share your story. I’m glad you are alive and moving forward in your life. You are a good man and father. I hope your story helps us better understand and support LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints and also helps LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints in their path forward. Links:Jake Yates Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jake.yates.37 Jake’s e-mail: jacobryates@icloud.com Jake Yates Instagram: @jyate15 Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Brooke Booth (no longer participating LDS, husband is active LDS, married mother of four, RM, BYU Grad, Lawyer) joins us to talk about her work to help couples navigate being in a mixed-faith marriage. Brooke’s work is not to pull people out of the LDS church—but rather to use principles, practices, insights, and her own lived experiences to help marriages remain strong, healthy, supportive and thrive. I was deeply moved by Brooke and her work. I’m grateful for all the wonderful work/service she gave for many years in our Church—and her current work to support couples in mixed-faith marriages. If you are in a mixed-faith married, working to help others, or want to improve relationships, I encourage you to listen to Brooke’s podcast and connect with her work. I was so impressed with Brooke’s maturity, honoring/supporting everyone’s journey, and her work to strengthen relationships. Thank you, Brooke, for being on the podcast. You are a good soul. Links: Brooke’s website: BrookeBroothCoaching.com Brooke’s e-mail: mormoncouples.com@gmail.com Marriage on a Tight Rope FB Group: www.facebook.com/groups/marriageonatightrope Mormon Mixed Faith Marriage FB Group: www.facebook.com/groups/148132815874583 Richard Ostler Books (Chapter 4 of Book 3 discussed in the podcast): www.papaostler.com
My friends Tami Carson (married mother of 7, active LDS, employee at Utah Foster Care) and Marshall Shearer (married transgender man, foster parent, adopted 5 children) joins us to talk about Utah Foster Care and LGBTQ youth. Marshall starts with his story of being a transgender man and his journey to love and accept himself. Marshall then talks about the decision with his wife to become foster parents and eventually adopt 5 children—two are LGBTQ. Marshall talks about the principles of strong parenting which included the ability to nurture, care, stability, and open communication. We talk about how LGBTQ parents are just as effective parents as straight parents. Tami shares her story of parenting a LGBTQ child and how initial fear led to love and support including this line “after fear love is all that is left”. Tami talks about how she loves and supports her friend Marshall and his ability to be an effective employee at Utah Foster Care and a wonderful parent. This is a beautiful story inviting us (including people like me) to put aside past assumptions and be open to better understanding how LGBTQ people can and are successful parents, members of our community and all-around wonderful people. We conclude with a discussion about the need for and process of becoming foster parents. Thank you, Tami and Marshall, for your work to bring us together in unity to help meet our community need to provide safe and healthy home for children in foster care. Links: Utah Foster Care: www.utahfostercare.org Utah Foster Care LGBTQ Info: www.utahforstercare.org/lgbtq Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Support Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Jaci Wightman (married mother of 7, LDS author, faith-based wellness coach) joins us to talk about her new book called “Ignited”. The book is a call to anyone who’s ever felt dead inside or empty or restless or numb or just feels like their inner flame has blown out. The book looks at the powerful solutions that are found in the scriptures to heal these feelings. In the podcast, Jaci talks about moving beyond a ‘check-list’ approach to a more principled approach to find peace, eternal life, and hope now. Jaci takes a doctrinally sound approach sharing what she has learned from the scriptures to “ignite” gospel teachings into her life now. It is a beautiful and practical approach for all of us to have more hope and peace now—anchored in our relationship with Jesus and knowledge we are divine children of Heavenly Parents. I was so moved listening to Jaci. I encourage everyone to check out her book and her website. Thank you Jaci for all the good you are doing in our community! Links: Jaci’s book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFYFG53P Jaci’s website: www.jaciwightman.com Jaci’s Instagram: www.instagram.com/jaciwightman/
Trigger Warning: This episode talks about the realities of sex trafficking My friend Tyler Schwab (early 30’s, Wyoming Native, RM from Dominican Republic, Human Trafficking Training from Vanguard University, MBA degree) joins us to talk about answering the call (after returning home from his mission) to return to Latin America and work to solve sex trafficking. Tyler talks about selling everything he owned and returning to the Dominican Republic and his journey over the past decade to prevent, recover, prosecute perpetrator, and empower survivors. It is a deeply personal story to “answer the call” to make a difference. Tyler also talks about his own spiritual journey to find peace that includes being angry at times at God for the pain of the survivors and the horrific deeds of the perpetrators—and seeing God’s hand at times in providing hope and healing to survivors. Tyler talks about staring Libertas International, its mission, and how you can donate to help make a difference. I was deeply moved listening to Tyler—a dear family friend. I am so grateful for brave people answering the call to make a difference in our world in unique and needed ways. Thank you, Tyler, for being on the podcast and all the good work you (and many others) are doing to rescue survivors and prosecute perpetrators. Links: Libertas International: https://libertasinternational.org/ Tyler Schwab e-mail: tyler@libertasinternational.org Instagram: @libertasinternational Cowboy State Daily Article: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/06/18/cowboy-state-people-tyler-schwab-of-afton-wyoming-dedicates-life-to-rescuing-sex-trafficked-girls/
My friend Mason Jones (Age 19, Preparing for an LDS Mission) joins us to share his journey with Limerence—a mental health issue. Mason describes his own journey with Limerence as an “an absolute infatuation with another person—so much more than a crush. It's an obsession over them. My mood became completely dependent on their every slight reaction.”In the podcast, Mason bravely shares his story including having a normal crush on a girl at age 17—which transformed into Limerence—and how Mason didn’t understand what was happening to him. After Mason bravely shares his own story, he talks about his path to healing which included both learning more about Limerence and the healing power of the Savior.I was deeply moved by the courage of Mason to share his story and how I can better understand and support those with Limerence. Thank you, Mason, for sharing your story. It helps reduce needless suffering in others and brings more awareness and understanding. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Richard Ostler books: www.papaostler.com Index of podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend David (not his real name) joins us to share his story. David starts with section 1 of his story (age 7-17) realizing he was gay at age 7 and (after hearing inappropriate conversations) turned to porn to learn more—which led to constant porn use. David talks the shame of porn, how it was a coping mechanism, and then opening up to his bishop and parents. David continues with section 2 of his story (age 18-22) which includes going away to college and some dating of men—one of which turned into a sexual assault situation that lasted many months and led David to falsely conclude “life is not worth living” leading to plans for his suicide. David talks about, at the last moment, reaching out to a friend who saved him. David also talks about a reaching out to the Title 9 Office that believed him and got him out of the situation. David also shares how his Bishop didn’t believe him and how we can do better. David talks about his mission (good experience, ended with Covid) and then going back to school. David finishes with section 3 of this story (age 23-26) which includes getting married to a man—a marriage which neither were really ready for and how/why it ended in divorce. David talks about what he has learned and how that marriage has made him a better man. We conclude the podcast with questions and David’s thoughtful answers. If you are in a dark place because of porn use, being a sexual assault victim, not being straight or in a bad relationship—thinking all is lost—David’s story will help you. It is a story of faith, courage, honestly, feeling God’s love, and looking forward. You are a good man, David. Thanks for being brave and sharing your story which helps others. Thank you for being on the podcast! Links: Richard Ostler books/bio/etc: www.papaostler.com Index of Podcasts: https://listenlearnandlove.org/podcastsFacebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend, Dr. Debra Theobald McClendon, joins us to talk about her new book: “Freedom from Scrupulosity: Reclaiming Your Religious Experience from Anxiety and OCD”—a powerful book focused on a comprehensive examination of religious and moral scrupulosity, with a focus on treatment.In the podcast, Dr. McClendon (active LDS, licensed psychologist, Ensign/LDS living author, speaker at Education Week and BYU Women’s Conference) gives an overview of her new book covering anxiety, scrupulosity, gospel principles/church talks that apply to this space, and clinical insights to bring more understanding and healing. She talks about how scrupulosity is not a spiritual weakness or a moral failing, but rather a mental health issue. Dr. McClendon shares powerful excerpts from the book, including stories of people with scrupulosity (all client quotes are shared with permission). These stories may speak to you--that you are not alone--and give you hope for a better quality of life and a vision for how to move forward to be able to find peace and joy in your religious worship. We conclude the podcast with advice to parents and local leaders. We discuss the practical issue of how to find a therapist. I also share some of our family story with scrupulosity and the people (including Dr McClendon) that were the answer to our prayers. If you are working to understand and solve anxiety/scrupulosity (or want better tools to help others), please listen to this podcast, check out Dr. McClendon’s website (which links other resources, as well), and read her book. It is the path to understanding and healing. Thank you, Dr. McClendon for being on the podcast. Your work is so needed in our community. And thank you for blessing the Ostler family. Links: Dr McClendon website: debramcclendon.com Book link on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1950304426 Book link on Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/freedom-from-scrupulosity
My friends Aubrey and Tim Chaves (Executive Board Members, Faith Matters) join us to talk about Restore—a two-day gathering from that brings together the best minds exploring the biggest questions as we look forward to the Restoration’s third century. In this episode, Aubry and Tim talk the vision of Restore, who is participating, who they hope will attend, and how they hope it improves our community. I loved attending Restore in 2022 and encourage you to consider attending Restore in 2023. They also answer some of the Q&A being received about the upcoming conference. Thank you, Aubrey and Tim (and everyone at Faith Matters), for the wonderful, needed, and trailblazing-work you are doing in our community. Sign Up Link: whova.com/web/667GlbD30IYx4fWzV%40jSGudaevaDiHN0XpuE0f9A1t0%3D/ 20% Discount Code: LISTEN Faith Matters: faithmatters.org/
My friend Christina Judd (married mother of three, active LDS) joins us to talk about her new book “All We Can Do: A Fresh View of God, Ourselves, and the World”. Christina talks about “the bottom falling out of her life” even though she was doing all the right things as a Latter-day Saint. She talks about having to develop new, more sustainable spiritual tools versus her earlier “check-list” approach. She talks about accepting President Nelson’s challenge to study the scriptures, looking for references to Christ and “Hear Him.” Christina talks about how the scriptures gave her new insights to be honest, authentic, and vulnerable in our prayers. She talks about loving Heavenly Parents and a Savior who are always there to help us and complete us. I was so moved listening to Christina and her personal story of finding hope, peace, and a new framework for moving forward as a Latter-day Saint. I am so glad she put this together in a new book, to help all of us find and come closer to Jesus Christ in stillness and rest. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast and checkout her book. Thank you, Christina, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you! Links: Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B0CGKVG67B/ Richard Ostler Books: www.papaostler.com
My friends Dr. Kristine Coons (Internal Medicine Physician, RM) and her wife Laura (mother of four, BYU grad) join us from Hawaii where they are celebrating their 20th wedding anniversary to share their remarkable story. Kristine talks about her long-term gender dysphoria and coming out her wife in 2014. They talk about their “lifeline” of communication and the gospel to help them stay committed in their marriage and to navigate this road. Laura talks about supporting her wife as she transitioned and saw first-hand their improvement in her life. They both talk about how they are and continue to be soulmates. Their story is a beautiful love story. Kristine talks about digging into the science of gender dysphoria and discovering through genetics that she has congenital hypogonadotripic hypogonadism (CHH) and how they helps explain how she feels. Kristine also shares her suicidal plans and how she got help (including calling the suicide crisis line) and how she is now in a much better place. This is a powerful podcast to better see, understand, and support transgender Latter-day Saints. I was so moved listening to Kristine and Laura. “When we know better, we do better.” Thank you, Kristine and Laura, for being on the podcast. You two are awesome and are helping us better create Zion. Links: 60 Minutes Episode: youtu.be/1Rw2cfXxnwE?si=nLrYzMuIUVjHjv_j Kristine’s YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@KristineCoons?si=akQ7hjSfchtJtcKN More about CHH: www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/genotes/knowledge-hub/congenital-hypogonadotropic-hypogonadism/ Latter-day Stonecathers FB Post: www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid031CaN5MDFdpANwe2sgv1CG1gg4a5gioRqEFQT5ucgkiH93X3yRJ7NNjqYzRG7SVaAl&id=100091855963860 Other Trans Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcastsLDS Church Website: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgenderMinistering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Richard Ostler Books: www.papaostler.com
My friend Jessi Duncan (married mother of four, wife of Bradon Duncan Episode 687, lives in Arkansas, court appointed advocate for foster children, RM) joins us to share her story. Jessi talks about her journey as a black Latter-day Saint and the racism that is still present in church culture and broader society. She gives specific examples, how we need to own/teach our past to “understand the darkness”, and ways we can do better. She talks about how this is part of President Nelson’s charge to “to lead out in abandoning attitudes and actions of prejudice.” Jessi also talks about being the straight partner in a mixed-orientation marriage (he husband Bradon is gay and came out to her after 13 years of marriage in 2020). She talks about the pain of her road and the ministering principle of “ongoing conversations” of these important and tender topics. She talks about her Bishop and Stake President (very helpful). Jessi has some “mic drop” comments like:Listening is how we keep the second great commandment.Hope changes our capacity to endure.Scripture study should be uncomfortable—challenging us to change. Jessi also talks about losing their son Ben to leukemia at age 4. Jessi concludes with a powerful poem. You can get a copy of the poem via the link in the show notes. Jessi’s story and insights provides some of the best principles to better create Zion and gather Israel. Jessi—in an effective way—invites us to be uncomfortable leading us to personal growth to better see, understand, support and love others. I was so moved listening to Jessi. Felt I was listening to of the accomplished theologians of our day. Thank you, Jessi, for being on the podcast. You story will help so many. You are one of my new heroes! Links: Poem: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f7eyptn7pzw23ww96ifkh/It-s-not-your-job-to-hurt-For-Episode-698.docx?rlkey=9grn9x0vehu4dusrwzltmcsdg&dl=0 Richard Ostler Books: www.papaostler.com Index of Podcasts: https://listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My dear friend (and former YSA) Tyler Shaw (RM, active Latter-day Saint, works for the Church) joins us to share his unexpected life reality of being single. Tyler talks about returning from his mission and believed his life plan was to get married around age 24-25, have children, and then be done having children around age 30. Well, that is not how life is turning out for Tyler. Tyler talks about how he is managing a life different than he expected. It is a story of courage, faith, and temple attendance to see the big picture. It is also a story of not looking backwards with regret or the unhealthy road of “what is wrong with me”. If your life has unexpected twists and turns and it not exactly as you imaged it in your younger years, Tyler’s story will help you. Tyler has this ability to create grace for ourselves, continue to work to improve, and temple attendance to be reminded of the big picture to find peace and perspective in our current journey. Honored to have you on the podcast Tyler. You are a good man and friend. Your story will help so many. Links: Richard Ostler’s books: https://www.papaostler.com/Index of podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend Chris Rich (married mother of three, husband and all three children stepped away from the Church, grew up in SLC, lives in Western Massachusetts, professional life coach) joins us to share her story. Chris talks learning to process the emotions (worried, angry, disappointment, resentment, and grief) of having family members leave the church and learning how to get through those emotions to find peace. Chris talks about the constant thought of “this isn’t what I signed up for” but learning to get past that perspective into a more healthy and sustainable mindset.Chris talks about her efforts to get her husband back to church—but then deciding “my job is to love, Jesus job is to save”. She talks about moving beyond “the only way to be happy is if my husband comes back to church.” Chris also talks about “clean pain” and “dirty pain” and how dirty pain can result in getting stuck (like a hamster wheel) and how to move beyond that pain. Chris talks about loving and supporting her family now. Seeing the good in their lives and contributions to society. Chris talks about how “fear is a hard emotion to parent from” and her end goal now with her family is “connection”. This is one of the best podcasts we’ve done to find peace, hope, and love when family members leave the church. I was so moved listening to Chris’s insights—including gospel insights, scriptures, talks and the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Thank you, Chris, for being on the podcast. I hope your episode is shared far and wide. Your work is so needed in our community. Thank you for being on our podcast—you are awesome!Links:a)Chris Rich’s coaching site: https://www.chrisrichcoaching.com/b)Chris’s podcast (The Mixed Faith Relationship Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mixed-faith-relationship-podcast/id1627333149c)Elder Uchtdorf talk: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2011/11/general-relief-society-meeting/forget-me-not?lang=engd) Richard Ostler Books: papaostler.com e) Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My dear friends Matt and Heather Robertson (married 30 years, three children) join us to share their story of family unity, love, and respect for all family members in the various Church paths they are walking. Matt and Heather talk about Matt’s long journey which eventually led to Matt no longer participating in the Church and then resigning in October 2022. Matt and Heather (who still attends and holds a calling) talk about how they learned to talk about difficult subjects, listen, hold space for different perspectives/conclusions/experiences, and be united in their love for each other and their children. It is a beautiful love story based on principles of love, respect, communication, and grace.
Heather talks about how her dreams/hopes for her family changed as her husband and all three children (two of which are LGBTQ) have stepped away from the church—and how she finds peace and hope. They talk about “let heaven take care of heaven, we will have no empty chairs now”.
Matt talks about a wonderful local Bishop—who was curious, listened, and validated his feelings. It is a wonderful ministering insight into preserving the relationship—even if a ward member steps away or resigns. Matt is clear he is not inviting others to take his path—just sharing his story. Part of that story is a desire expressed in his resignation letter to his Bishop to stay involved with the ward community and help as needed. Matt feels that support as he is often asked to help (such as substituting playing the piano in primary).
This one of the most powerful podcasts about how a mixed-faith marriage can and does work—and how Matt and Heather have learned new skills to make their marriage even stronger. If you are in a family where some are not participating in the Church and want to preserve the family relationship and have “no empty chairs” this podcast will help you. But it takes work on both those staying in the church and those stepping away.
Thank you, Matt and Heather. I was so moved hearing you share your story. Your story will help so many. Honored to have you on the podcast.
Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Books: papaostler.com
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
This episode is the launch of my new book called “Listen, Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion”. The “Good Ship Zion” represents The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and all the good it can bring into our lives. But not everyone feels welcome and secure in the boat. Instead of putting the responsibility on others to get comfortable—or to figuratively stop rocking the boat—we can all work in our circles of influence to improve the Good Ship Zion for everyone, as we journey together to the safe harbor of God’s presence. Chapters:Loving members who are “foyer sitters”Is it okay to turn down a calling?Ministering to those with church-generated pain or traumaHow should we treat those who leave the Church?Supporting members dealing with deathBetter support for single Latter-day SaintsSupporting couples in their decisions about children. Much of the content of the book are Latter-day Saints sharing these perspectives. They are some of my heroes. I encourage everyone to read the book and share it with others. And please leave a review on Amazon and Deseret Book (there in a month or two). All my love, Richard Book Link: amazon.com/dp/1462145280 Stockton Powers Memorial Scholarship: standingforstockton.com/
My friend Adam Maughan (from Avon Utah, Indy RM, not active in the Church, conversion therapy survivor) joins us to bravely share his story. Adam starts with realizing he was attracted to men prior to his mission but believed exercising his faith through increased religious behaviors would make him straight and acceptable to God. However once on his mission, it became apparent to Adam that his feelings for men had not gone away. He felt that God was displeased with him, and that his sexuality was to blame for difficulties he and his companions faced in their work. That false conclusion (along with the reality of being gay) led Adam to a dark spot resulting in coming home from his mission to a loving and supportive family. Adam talks about how his road got darker after difficult church experiences, conversion therapy, and missing the community/safety of Church. That led Adam to suicidal ideation/plans resulting in an inpatient stay at UNI at the University of Utah. This experience became a turning point as the Maughan family met at the hospital and talked about Adam’s future, including their support if he dated men/stepped away from the Church. Their constant love and support gave Adam hope for his future and helped him move out of his mental health crisis. Adam talks about stepping away from the Church (super painful to leave a community he felt so much connection to) and keeping God in his life. Adam talks about making his way to the University of Tennessee where he is pursuing a PhD in Counseling Psychology. As part of his dissertation, Adam is doing research on Latter-day Saint Allies who live in Utah (see show notes for the link). I was so moved listening to Adam as he navigated being gay and wanting so badly to belong and serve in our church. I was also moved how Adam found hope and healing in his life—a story that helps others in a dark place. And so much respect for Adam for working towards a PhD because of his goal to bring hope and healing to others—and to reduce divisiveness. You are a good man, Adam. A warrior. A survivor. This world is a better place with you here. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Learn more or sign up to participate in Adam’s Dissertation Study at: https://tiny.utk.edu/LDSAlliesFHE Facebook Group link: https://instagram.com/fheforall_cachevalley?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==Previous study by Dr. Lesli Allen on LDS Parents of LGBTQ+ Youth: https://www-proquest-com.utk.idm.oclc.org/docview/2596920889?pq-origsite=gscholar&fromopenview=trueAdam’s email: amaughan@vols.utk.edu
Episode 692: Brian Pedersen, Gay Former Latter-day Saint, Atheist Turned Christian by Richard Ostler
Our family friend Zach Tucker (age 26, Russia RM, University of Utah Finance Grad, Current MBA Student at University of Minnesota) joins us to share his story. Zach (who is no longer active in the Church and plans to marry a man) shares his journey to accept his sexual orientation (mostly after his mission) and eventually come out to family and friends (lots of love and support). Zach talks in-depth about coming out to others (a close girlfriend) and then his family (via a group video) which led to a dinner around his mother Pam’s table. Zach talks about the love, good questions, and family support he received that night (which continues today). Zach talks about supporting his active LDS mother Pam as she finds joy in the Church and the family's love and support as Zach moves forward in the path he feels is best for him. Zach talks about his family’s unity and love—even with differences. It is a beautiful family love story that follows the principle taught by Elder Quentin Cook in his October 2020 General Conference Talk: “Unity and diversity are not opposites. We can achieve greater unity as we foster an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for diversity.” Zach then talks about the group he was the most nervous to come out to—his “sports-loving, jock, republican, straight” friends that he considers as brothers —his boys that he grew up with—boys that he hopes being gay doesn’t change their friendship and brotherhood. Zach talks about the positive experience coming out to his bros and their love, support, humor, and interest in Zach. I was happy to hear these specific examples and wish I could go back in time and say the same for a couple of my high school classmates who came out as gay. Zach talks about being “guided by love” for others in everything he is doing and invites others to do the same. I was so moved listening to Zach and honored to have him on the podcast. You are a good man Zach—loved by so many—and someone who has blessed many lives. Your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you. Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperbackAmazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend Dave Higham joins us from his home on Vancouver Island, British Columbia to share his story. Dave (in his mid-50’s) shares this story of losing his church membership while serving as a Bishop, in hopes of helping others who have lost their membership and are working to have their membership restored.
Dave talks about the shame and embarrassment of losing his Church membership and the possible impact on other’s testimonies—and how he is finding peace. Dave talks about friends that reach out with “how can I help”, how he is staying close to his Heavenly Father and Jesus, how he can still feel Their love and the Spirit, and what he is doing to strengthen his testimony.
Dave also talks about the sometimes-difficult experiences and how we can better minister to and support someone who has lost their membership.
Dave talks about the blog he has started and the support group that starts in September 2023 for others who have lost their church membership—and the need to have community for those walking this road to give hope, support, and perspective. Dave also talks about the “fellowship of the forgiven” of those who have been through a repentance process that brought them closer to Christ - and their important work in this space.
I was so moved listening to Dave. Dave doesn’t diminish the consequences of his decision—but is now focused on doing his best to learn, grow and move forward—something I believe is at the core of repentance. Dave also has a deep desire to help others through his experience—which includes being on this podcast and starting his blog (see show notes).
Thank you, Dave, for being brave and your courage to be on the podcast. You are a good man and continue to bless others.
Links:
Blog: https://onesheep.blog/
Instagram: @OneSheep.blog
My friend Christi Davis (married mother of seven, certified life coach, author, podcaster, lives in Gilbert Arizona) join us to talk about her new book called “The Power of a Faithful Mother: Parenting in the Latter Days with a Faith-Filled Mindset.
Christi shares some of her own story including her husband Jeff stepping away from the Church and how they worked to maintain a strong and healthy marriage (Jeff has since returned to the Church). So many wonderful principles and insights to maintain a strong marriage with different beliefs.
Christi also talks about having children who are no longer participating in the church and the advice she gives her clients to help ease their pain, find peace today and hope for tomorrow, not feel like a failure, and not compare outcomes to other Latter-day Saint families.
I wrote down so many unique and helpful insights from Christi and she brings her own story, clinical training, and gospel insights to help others. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and check out Christi’s work. I was deeply moved by Christi—her words will help you find more peace now and more hope for the future.
Thank you, Christi, for being on the podcast and your personal ministry to help others.
Links:
Christi’s book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0C9KM8TMY
Christi’s website and podcast: christidaviscoaching.com
Facebook support group for LDS parents with children no longer participating: www.facebook.com/groups/1139458306236720
My friend Dan Neumann (Pediatrician, age 36, married father of 2, RM, lives in Roy Utah, no longer active in the church) joins us to share his powerful story. Dan talks about growing up in Elgin, IL, being very active in the Church, and knowing he was attracted to boys — but always expecting it would go away. Dan talks about silently suffering during these years with depression and suicidal ideation, while trying to compensate by being an overachiever.
Dan talks about how, because of his same sex attractions, his relationship with God struggled greatly. He felt that God is “not pleased with me”, that he “never could measure up”, that “God is mad at me”, and that he “never felt acceptable to God." Dan asks, “if I hate who I am, how can God love who I am?” These are sobering insights into how the things we say about queer people deeply affect how they feel about themselves as well as how they believe God must feel about them. Dan talks about the work he is doing to take away shame, to be honest and authentic, and to move forward in his life.
Dan also talks about being open about his sexual orientation while dating women, including with his wife, Anna, as they were dating. Dan talks about being very active in the Church during med school and residency in Chicago and in the first few years in his pediatric practice in Utah, but eventually deciding (about 2 years ago) to no longer be active. He was open and transparent with his Bishop who reacted positively and has a very good relationship and ongoing communication with Dan. Dan talks about supporting his wife and kids in being active in the Church, and he also accepted a calling as a ward choir pianist.
If you are feelings shame about your sexual orientation or gender identity, please listen to Dan’s story. It will help you. And if you are looking to better support queer Latter-day Saints, Dan’s story will open your heart to how we can do better. No one should feel shame for who they are. We need to learn to proactively say kind things about queer Latter-day Saints.
You are a good man Dan. Respect for concurrently navigating your sexual orientation, getting through medical school/becoming a pediatrician, and starting a family. You are one of my new heroes. Thanks for all you do to make this world a better place.
Links:
Dan’s e-mail: dneumann87@gmail.com
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend Braden Duncan (married father of 4, Active LDS, Therapist, Lives in Arkansas, age 40) joins us the share his remarkable story. Braden talks about growing up in Midway Utah and coming out to his Bishop (good experience and the good advice he received).
Braden then talks about the “wise counsel” he wishes he been given before entering into his mixed-orientation marriage to his wife Jessi. He talks about how not talking about it before they married took away Jessi’s right to make a more informed decision. Braden and Jessi are now working hard to increase the strength and health of their marriage.
Braden talks about his OCD and how this was more of a coping mechanism to have control while not addressing to the core which was his sexuality.
In one of the most moving segments of any podcast, Braden shares what he has learned about the character of God and Jesus and their “passionate love”, “complete trust, and “underserved forgiveness”. The God that Braden describes is the God that I believe in—the God that loves us and wants us to feel hope, peace, and their grace. This isn’t theoretical for Braden—but personal from the hard work done to know and worship this God.
Bradon also talks about the loss of their son Ben to leukemia and how he is learning to “hold onto your faith in a new way” and what we can do to better support families dealing with death.
This is a powerful podcast that will help all Latter-day Saints. Thank you Bradon for your courage to share your story. You are brave. You are a good man!
Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
In this episode, I do a solo podcast for Latter-day Saints who want to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints in their area of influence.
Links:
Stockton Powers Memorial Scholarship: www.standingforstockton.com/
Elder Rasband Quote: www.thechurchnews.com/2021/9/1/23218781/elder-rasband-finding-answers-to-questions-california-institute-devotional
Link to Books: listenlearnandlove.org/books
Steve Young Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1639930310
Facebook Group Ministering Resources to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Chapter on Pride (Chapter 5, False Statement 9): listenlearnandlove.org/embracing-lgbtq-latterday-saints
My friends Lila and Gina Ellsworth join us to share their story. Lila (Film major at the University of Utah, plays on the women’s hockey team, from Gilbert AZ) shares her journey trying to understand her sexual orientation—a journey that started in middle school. Lila talks about praying on how to navigate this road, turning to podcasts to hear other stories, coming out to a friend and then her mother Gina. She also shares her original journal entries to help us understand her road to love and accept herself.
Lila talks about all the pain and shame for her feelings—feelings she has no control over and how others helped her feel normal.
Lila talks about coming out to her mother and how her mother’s loves and supports Lila—and her heart of love seeing “all the pain Lila is feeling.” Gina shares the suicidal feelings that Lila was experiencing and her heartache and love for her.
Lila then talks about a coming out to her dad Matt and his support and then extended family (with her seminary teacher helping her on the letter).
I am so grateful for Lila’s courage to be open about her orientation and to share her story on the podcast—her story will give others hope in their journey. I’m grateful for Gina for also being on the podcast and her insights for LDS parents on how to love, understand, and support their queer children.
This is a beautiful family love story—love the Ellsworth family—sharing your story helps so many.
Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend Edward Leavitt (mid-30’s, lives and works in Saint George Utah, RM, Recently Out) joins us to bravely share his story. Edward talks about growing up in Southern Utah and his journey to figure out his sexual orientation after not being able to make things work with a woman following his mission. Edwards talks about dark days filled with shame, self-harm, suicidal ideation, and hating himself.
Edward talks about his relationship with his Heavenly Father and Jesus and how that allowed him to accept himself and conclude that his is loved and his life is worth living and “choosing to stay.” Edwards also talks about helping things along the way that have him hope and support.
Edward bravely talks about finding out he is HIV positive and how that news led him to come out to his family (via a text he reads on the podcast) and his families support (including a text Edwards reads from his Dad on the podcast). It is a powerful family love story of coming together to love and support each other. Edward talks about how his family relationships are central to his happiness and hope for his future.
Edward also talks about HIV and reducing the stigma around it and how we can have people in our lives that are HIV positive. I learned much about HIV listening to Edward.
Edward concludes with his relationship with his Heavenly Father and Jesus—and how he is glad he is gay—and is hope for the future and peace for today.
Thank you, Edward, for being on the podcast. You are brave. Your story gives perspective, hope and insights for others. You are a good man.
Links:
Church Suicide Prevention Video on “Why I Stay”: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2018-01-0150-suicide-prevention-choose-to-stay
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend Sue Robbins (in her 60’s, military career, moved to Utah 2004) joins us to share her story. Sue talks about knowing at a young age something was different about her—and while those feelings existed there was no understanding in society about how she felt.
Sue talks about gradually coming out to herself and others and “transitioned to living life authentically as a woman in 2014.” Sue then talks about her bridge building work in Utah (on various boards and organizations) to bring more understanding of and support to transgender people—including her work with our state legislature.
Sue also talks about how being transgender is not a mental illness but a medical issue and should be treated as such (just like other medical issues like a broken arm or illness). Sue talks about the role of therapists and principles to find the right one to help someone who is transgender.
Sue is a steady voice in this space and has been on this road for a long time. She has chosen to stay away from the vitriol and unhelpful rhetoric—and instead build bridge of understanding.
If you are looking to better understand and support our transgender friends, I encourage you to listen to Sue’s story. I encourage all of us to learn about transgender people from listening to many of their stories—and not from spaces of fear or political rhetoric.
Thank you Sue for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Thanks for your great work in our community!
Links:
Sue’s website: sueinut.com/
Sue’s Twitter: twitter.com/srobbins31
Other Trans Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts
LDS Church Website: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Julie Rose joins us to talk about BYUradio’s show (and now podcast) called “Top of Mind”. It is a production that talks about tough topics (such as politics, social issues) in a nuanced, respectful way. The show is not out to change your mind—but to “lower the temperature” and model how to talk about important subjects to keep us unified as Latter-day Saints.
Julie (a season journalism veteran with over has a 20+-year of work—including stints in California and Charlotte, NC) brings her thoughtful voice to “Top of Mind” to help us be curious, informed, engaged, and willing to learn.
Julie also shares some of her own story as a Latter-day Saint (in her late 40s, never married, serving as the YW president in her ward) and what she does to stay engaged in the Church and what we can do to help everyone feel a sense of belonging.
I am deeply moved by the efforts of Julie, and everyone involved in the “Top of Mind” podcast and encourage everyone to check it out. Not only are the topics excellent, but the respectful approach helps us model how to discuss sensitive topics in our circles. I am also deeply moved by Julie’s personal story.
Thank you, Julie, for being on the podcast and all you do to create Zion.
Links:
Top of Mind of podcast: https://www.byuradio.org/topofmind (or just look for Top of Mind with Julie Rose on any podcast app!)
First Presidency letter: https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2023/6/6/23751117/first-presidency-letter-emphasizes-participation-in-elections-reaffirms-political-neutrality
Letter published in The Boston Globe by The Abortion Talks participants: https://www.feminist.com/resources/artspeech/genwom/talkingwith.html
The Abortion Talks film: https://abortiontalks.com/
Top of Mind episode about The Abortion Talks: www.byuradio.org/top-of-mind-how-to-talk-about-abortion
My friends, this is one of the most unique and powerful podcasts we’ve ever done. I encourage ward councils, local leaders, and families to listen to this podcast to better understand how to love and support our LGBTQ neighbors and friends—and really anyone different than us.
Dan Link, Kristin Sokol, and Miki Eberhart join in this episode to share a remarkable story of a ward family who learn to love and then truly show up for two gay dads in their very homogenous Herriman neighborhood. It’s a story of love, tragedy and how the power of friendship and the spirit of fellowship moved everyone closer to the Savior.
Dan talks about growing up in the Church, serving a mission (in the 70’s), but never feeling accepted or normal as a gay Latter-day Saint. He shares his story about finding the love of his life in Ryan and building a life and family together.
Hear their story about being invited to the Ward Trunk-or-Treat in Herriman, Utah. This event, led to Dan and Ryan being curious about what attending church would be like.
Dan shares the journey with health challenges his husband Ryan faced and the unwavering ward love and support they received in that time, including seven months of meals that were delivered while Ryan was in the hospital during 2020. Ryan passed away on July 25, 2021, and the ward continued to rally around them, fully participating in Ryan’s Celebration Of Life in the local ward building.
Dan talks about his loving Bishop who asked him to serve as the Ward Librarian and how it led to a full return to church activity. Dan talks about doing the Temple proxy work for Ryan (including baptizing their son for Ryan). Dan talks about his continued love for Ryan and how much he misses him and feels peace and hope for their ability to be together again.
Miki Eberhardt, a Stake Relief Society President in another Herriman Utah Stake, heard this story from her friend Kristin Sokol who is in Dan’s ward. After hearing about this modern miracle, Miki felt impressed to share Dan’s story in her series of Ward Conference talks.
She talks about how loving our neighbor is easy when we believe the same things, cheer for the same sports teams—but counts that only as preschool discipleship. Real discipleship is when we figure out how to love our neighbor when they are nothing like us.
Kristin Sokol, Dan’s longtime friend and neighbor, talks firsthand about how this miracle unfolded in her homogenous Herriman neighborhood and ward family and her love for the Link Family.
Thank you, Dan, Miki, and Kristin, for being on the podcast. You are all awesome!
Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
In one of our most moving episodes, my friend Tiffany joins us to share her story for the first time on a public platform.
Tiffany talks about her extremely difficult journey to find joy in the Church and in her life throughout many life events that made her question herself, her faith, and even a belief in God.
She discusses some of the traumatic events in her life, including multiple sexual assaults, racism, generational trauma, homelessness and alcoholism that broke her spirit and any faith in the Church, the priesthood and leaders.
A huge advocate of therapy, Tiffany tells how beloved therapists helped her come to terms with her past and helped her look forward to an unlimited future and learn how to love herself as God does. Through therapy, beloved friends (especially queer ones- in and out of the Church), trusted church members and life changing missionaries, Tiffany has now been able to find hope, love and acceptance in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Tiffany also talks of what can only be described as miraculous personal moments with Apostles of the Lord that prove how much our Heavenly Father loves his children and is aware of our personal heartaches and wants to heal us.
If you are working to see, understand and solve trauma in your life (including trauma resulting from difficult church experiences), Tiffany’s story with help you. If you want to better support those who are survivors of trauma, Tiffany’s story will help you.
Thank you, Tiffany, for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are courageous. You are one of the best examples of the “wounded healer” I know.
My friends Brandon and Elizabeth Cardenaz (mid 30s, active LDS, married 12 years, 4 children with twins on the way) join us to share their story. Brandon talks about growing up in conservative communities with unkind and unhelpful things said about gay people and learning to separate that from the gospel of Jesus Christ. Brandon talks about how there were really no resources for a gay Latter-day Saint and doing the best he could to make his way forward concurrent with feelings a deep shame for his sexual orientation.
Brandon talks about his decision to serve a mission and his deep testimony of our restored Church. Brandon talks about returning how from his mission and dating women. Brandon talks about coming out to his girlfriend (now his wife Elizabeth) as gay and her prayer to Heavenly Father on if she should marry Brandon. Elizabeth shares her answer to prayer to marry Brandon.
Brandon and talk about an “intervention” to call off their marriage—the day before their temple marriage—as some family members became aware of Brandon’s sexual orientation. They share their decision to get married and how we should learn to honor individual personal revelation. They share how they later reconciled with these family members.
This is a powerful podcast from a couple in a wonderful, sustainable, and healthy marriage—with a foundation of honestly, communication, and deep peace/no shame around Brandon’s sexuality. It is story that provides principles to help strengthen other marriages.
Thank you, Brandon, and Elizabeth, for being on the podcast. I was deeply moved listening to your story. You are both so brave. You have a beautiful family, and your story will help so many!
Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend @ashley.c.dyer (active LDS RM, nurse, author, living in Boston) joins us to talk about her new book called “Women at the Well: Mini Devotionals for Women of Faith” that covers a range of important questions, like:
- Am I truly enough just as I am?
- Is there a way to make scripture study more fun?
- How do I navigate a faith crisis?
- What is grace?
- Is it possible to share the gospel without feeling awkward?
- How do I feel the Lord’s love in times of trial?
Ashley shares some of her own story growing through “faith transformations” and principles to help others walking this beautiful road. She also talks about her love of and support for our LGBTQ friends including her cousin Matt Easton. She shared her experience visiting Matt before DC Pride and then finding herself in the Grand Marshall car with Matt and feeling the “most unconditional love (she) had ever experienced.”
I was deeply moved listening to Ashley—her maturity, her service in our world, her new book, her ability to lift others, and her hope of the future of our Church and world. I encourage everyone to check out Ashley’s podcast and her new book.
Links:
Ashely’s IG account @ashley.c.dyer
Ashely’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462145795
My friend Dr. Brian Willoughby (PhD in Family Social Science from University of Minnesota, LDS Convert, Noted Researcher and BYU Professor) joins us to talk about understanding and solving porn use.
Dr. Willoughby (a frequent speaker on this subject) talks about what the research is teaching us about porn use and insights/principles to solve it. This is a unique podcast on this subject because Dr. Willoughby brings understanding from his own research (and other research) to better understand this important subject and practical principles/insights to end porn use.
If you are working to understand and solve your own porn use, please listen to this podcast. It will help you. And if you are a parent or local leader desiring better tools to help others, this podcast will help you. I wish I had heard a podcast like many years ago—before being a parent or before church assignments.
Thank you, Dr. Willoughby, for your needed work in our community.
Links:
Dr. Willoughby BYU Web Site: https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/brian-willoughby
Dr. Willoughby August 2023 Liahona Article: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2023/08/05-finding-hope-and-love-when-battling-pornography
Richard Ostler chapter on Pornography (see chapter 4): https://www.listenlearnandlove.org/improving-latter-day-saint-culture
My friend Shannon Sears (age 51, out in 2022, father of three, lifelong church member with decades of church service, divorced, no longer active LDS) joins us to share his story. Shannon hopes that sharing his story will “help younger queer people see themselves as God sees them.”
Shannon talks about how he felt not only broken, but “irreparably broken” and how he “never really thought of himself as gay—just terribly flawed”. Shannon shares 35 years of feeling this way (from being a young teen until the age of 50) and the immense and inescapable shame he felt for being gay (even though he was trying to be perfectly obedient). Shannon talks about how the shame kept him from feeling joy and peace in his life and falsely believed that God couldn’t love him.
Shannon talks about feeling suicidal and close to acting on that plan—but praying to God and asking how God felt about him and receiving a powerful answer “I love you. I never intended to fix you. You are not broken. They may not want you, but you are Mine.” Shannon talks about the peace and acceptance this brought him—and how the shame disappeared—giving Shannon hope for his future. He talks about his continued desire to be a disciple of Christ, and how he feels he is better able to do that with his whole heart now.
Shannon talks about coming out to his wife (he refers to her as the best woman he knows) and his children, and deciding to end his marriage. Shannon acknowledges the pain for his wife and children and trying to do the best he can, continuing his love for, and relationship with them and moving forward with his own life. He offers some thoughts on what helped him—and what didn't—from those around him during this difficult journey.
This is a powerful episode to hear the story of Shannon—35 years in the closet navigating his sexual orientation—and all the things that were difficult in his journey—things that we no longer teach or say (hopefully) as when we “know better, we do better.”. If you are LGBTQ this podcast will help you write your own story. And for the rest it helps us better know how to love, understand and better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Thank you, Shannon, for being on the podcast. You are a good man. Your story will help so many.
Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
My friend Jessop Oliver (age 25, starting a Master’s Program at Duke, Active LDS, RM, plans to marry a man) joins us to share his story. Jessop talks about growing up in Davis County (oldest of three) in a solid and loving family. Jessop bravely shares how porn use started out of curiosity because of his same-sex attraction. Jessop talks about being “proud of overcoming porn but lost with his sexuality” during his high school years.
Jessop talks about how his “gay panic” led him to be a people pleaser, then later an overachiever, thinking he “couldn’t be rejected if I’m good at everything.” Jessop talks about his mission to Chile (great experience) and the spiritual foundation it gave him. Jessop talks about starting at Utah State and realizing he still had same-sex attraction and bravely opening up to his YSA Bishop (great experience). He talks about how this Bishop “loved me when I couldn’t love myself”.
Jessop talks about dating women (short-lived relationships) and being faced with the reality of being gay and LDS. He talks about coming out to family and friends and the positive support he is receiving. Jessop talks about spiritual/positive experiences coming out, including a time when he was prompted to come out at a fireside.
Jessop talks about why he started to date men, went back to date women, and then concluded that his path is going to be date men with the hopes of finding a husband with the same values/spiritual framework as him. Jessop talks about moving to Duke and coming out as gay in his YSA Ward during testimony meeting (he is now in the EQ Presidency) and the support he is receiving and his gratitude for the chance to serve.
Jessop also talks about the reality of his road—knowing he will not be able to fully participate in the Church but wanting to stay connected with the Church and have a strong relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. He talks about the people God placed in his life, and having an eternal perspective. He also encourages people to take time to listen to the perspectives of the people around them.
Thank you, Jessop, for sharing your story. You are so brave. You have such a mature and solid foundation to chart the rest of your life. Thank you for being on the podcast. Your story helps others.
My long-time friend Gregory Layton (RM, Former Student Body President at Dixie State University, MBA University of Utah, early 30s, single) joins us to share his journey with crippling anxiety and scrupulosity. Gregory shares how “for the last five years of my life, I lived in a mental torture prison called scrupulosity”.
Gregory talks about how this is a mental health issue and not a spiritual weakness and needs to be solved experts in this area and the right kind of therapy. Gregory talks about how he turned to increased religious behaviors (6-10 hour per day in the temple, listening to multiple conference talks, etc) is his determination to end his intrusive thoughts and feelings of not being square with God. All this with a pure and humble desire to hear the Holy Ghost so he could make the right decisions in his life—but all of this only adding to his anxiety and scrupulosity—causing Gregory to feel worse and suicidal at times.
Gregory talks about only when he framed this as a mental illness, did he get the help he needed. Gregory talks about how he is such a better and more sustainable place—and able to live with uncertainly—and also peace that the core of Gregory is good, and God will continue to guide him.
This is a powerful and brave podcast for someone I deeply admire and respect. Hearing his story only increases my love, admiration, and respect for Gregory. If you are working to see, understand, and/or solve scrupulosity, Gregory’s story will help you. And if you have a loved one on this road, Gregory’s story will give you insights on how to better help them.
Thank you, Gregory, for being on the podcast. You are a good man with a bright future.
Links:
Dr. Debra McClendon: https://debramcclendon.com/
Podcast on Scrupulosity: https://listenlearnandlove.org/depression-mental-illness-podcasts (see 575, 557, 542, 493, 360, 336, 258, 240, 204, 199, 191)
Richard Ostler Chapter (from Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture) on Scrupulosity: www.dropbox.com/s/i314vw5im0khzia/Chapter%207%20Overcoming%20Scrupulosity%20%28Religious%20ODC%29.pdf?dl=0
My friend Landon Phillips and his parents Monica and James Phillips join us to update listeners on Landon’s journey (check out Episode 230 for their earlier podcast). Landon talks about getting, as a Christmas gift from his parents, a full genome sequencing kit. Landon, who was assigned female at birth but who transitioned over 5 years ago, got his results in June and learned that he is genetically male with XY chromosomes. The family discusses the impact of receiving these DNA results.
Landon doesn’t want his story to invalidate the stories of transgender men who don’t have XY chromosomes. Landon—so thoughtfully—writes about this in his Facebook post (see show notes).
Monica and James share their experience parenting a transgender child—principles that are super helpful for any parent. Monica and James talk about their North Star presentation and the things they are sharing with both parents and local leaders to better support transgender Latter-day Saints.
This is a super powerful podcast. The Phillips family are trailblazers in this space and their story helps all of us better see, understand, love and support our transgender friends.
,Thank you Landon, Monica, and James for being on the podcast and your great work in our community!
Links:
Landon’s DNA Facebook post: www.facebook.com/landon.phillips.3386585/posts/pfbid02CC17be7CS6cHgzbLFr1bejAtGogrECZH415gLzWjS7BhdGCSEJvdj8zKfDzz6cm8l
Gender Curious podcast (hosted by Landon and Michael Soto): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gender-curious/id1676327715
Dave and Kimi Martin Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son-levi/id1347971725?i=1000607948078
Dr Julia Bernards Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-664-dr-julia-bernards-byu-dissertation-on-transgender/id1347971725?i=1000619444998
LDS Church’s transgender page: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender?lang=eng
North Star International Conference Index https://www.northstarsaints.org/conference-keynote-index (this link will be updated as 2023 conference sessions become available for purchase.)
My friend Laurel Greathouse (RM, same-gender attraction, early 30s) joins us to share her story. Laurel talks about her decision to serve a mission (San Diego, California) and coming home twice for health reasons. She shares what was helpful and not helpful as an early release missionary.
Laurel then talks about leaving the Church and dating women for about 4 years. She then talks about spiritual impressions and people showing pure love that led her to reconnect with God, her true hopes and the Church. It is a remarkable story.
If you are wondering if there is a way back for you—or if you are wondering about better insights to help a friend or family member—Laurel’s story will help you.
Thank you for being on the podcast Laurel. You are very brave and courageous to share your story. You story will help so many!
Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints?variant_id=189035-paperback
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
Richelle begins by sharing some of the observations of her childhood and how these no doubt trying experiences helped to shape her life and strengthen her personal testimony as well as develop a strong relationship with the Savior—her experience and her journey have helped her to just “trust in the Lord” seek to find joy in your life and accept that all will be made right in the end.
Richelle shares how she came to know that her long held feelings needed not be a source of shame and that embracing her gender dysphoria only fully surfaced after the unraveling of her marriage of 25 years. She talks about the peace and joy she feels being honest about her gender identity and helps us better understand how to support her and others on their unique path.
She talks about attending her local ward and regaining trust with her priesthood leaders as everyone tries to do their best to love and support her—including some very positive experiences with her relief society sisters.
Richelle talks about how some voices in society today seek to brand trans people as sexual perverts out to target their children. With deep emotion, Richelle talks about how painful that is to hear as in her sincere desire to embrace womanhood she only wants to nurture and defend children.
We conclude with reading from the Church’s web page about loving and supporting transgender Latter-day Saints—and emphasize how the Church’s web site contains none of the politically charged statements otherwise being shouted out in the public arena. Richelle encourages us to remember the second greatest commandment and to be willing to get to know the individual just as the Savior knows us individually.
Thank you, Richelle, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You are a wonderful woman with a great life ahead of you!
Links:
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Dr. Chelom Leavitt (JD from BYU Law School; Masters in Marriage, Family and Human Development BYU; PhD in Human Development and Family Studies Penn State) joins us to talk about research in sexual function, sexual mindfulness and the connection between sex and relationship well-being.
Dr Leavitt—who teaches on this subject in the BYU School of Family Life and is a married mother of nine—talks about the research and this subject and how to teach it to improve sexual mindlessness in marriage—resulting in stronger marriages. She also talks about how it is Satan (not our Heavenly Father) that introduces shame into this subject and how/why talking about it is important in our marriages and talking about sex with our children.
I learned so much listening to Dr. Leavitt—principles and insights I wish I had heard earlier in my life which would have given me better tools as a husband, father, and in my YSA service. Dr. Leavitt is doing groundbreaking work in our community and beyond and I encourage everyone to check out her podcast and her work.
Thank you, Dr. Leavitt, for being on the podcast and your needed work.
Links:
Bio: chelomleavitt.com/
Podcast: chelomleavitt.com/podcasts/
BYU Page: fhssfaculty.byu.edu/directory/chelom-leavitt
Sexual Wholeness in Marriage: amazon.com//dp/B00IIE0UR8/
A Better Way to Teach Your Kids about Sex: amazon.com/dp/B07FT7BNRV
Psychology Today Page: psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/chelom-e-leavitt-jd-phd
My friend Andrew White (age 29, finishing up dental school, living in the Kansas City area) starts with knowing he was attracted to the same gender around age 5 and recognizing he was gay around 15. Andrew talks about the events that led him to join the Church at age 15 (including a powerful dream) and then doing everything to ‘become straight’ including being active in the Church (becoming an Elder, going to BYU, temple endowment, and serving a mission)—all with the hope of “rewarded with being straight” and also wanting to help others feel the love of God and our Savior.
Andrew then talks about the super difficult and painful church experiences on his mission and then at BYU which causes so much pain/trauma that Andrew felt his only path to healing was to resign from the Church in 2016. The things Andrew experienced on his mission and BYU are heartbreaking—church generated trauma is real for some members of our Church and something I’ve learned to validate even if I haven’t experienced it directly.
Andrew then talks about his life out of the Church (very good experience) and then his spiritual promptings to return to the Church which happened with his rebaptism on June 10, 2023 by his lifelong friend Michael. Andrew bears a strong testimony of God’s love for all of His children and the need for inclusion and diversity as we create Zion.
This is one of the most powerful podcasts we’ve done. I learned so much from Andrew about hope, healing, grace, and forgiveness. I’m grateful to so many in Andrew’s circle (friends, father and stepmom, allies, local church leaders and general authorities) who love and support Andrew—and see his great heart and needed contributions to build Zion.
Andrew talks about a healing visit to the BYU Honor Code office and how that positive experience helped “over-write the trauma.”. Andrew concludes how he has gone from wanting to be “rewarded with being straight” to the “blessing of being gay.”
Thank you, Andew, for being on the podcast. You are so brave. Honored to have you on the podcast. Your story will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friend Nigel Bull (who joined the Church at age 16, left, rebaptized at age 40, currently not active) joins us to share some of his story (complicated at times) as a gay Latter-day Saint. Nigel takes us back to like what it was to be gay in the '80's in the Church. Some of his story is painful to hear--but it helps us understand the realities of the road Nigel was walking.
Nigel also shares his health challenges which led to being in a wheel chair starting in his late '20s and also being HIV positive and the unknows about that illness in the '80s.
Nigel, who was suicidal at times, gives advice for others who are thinking of suicide to reach out (in the United States call/text/chat 988) and also "love yourself and believe in yourself."
Nigel is one of my heroes for his courage to do his best to navigate being a Latter-day Saint and gay during a time with less understanding and support. You are a good man Nigel. I'm glad you are alive and all the people you have helped along the way. Glad to have you on the podcast!
My friends Bekki Hood and Emily Cushing joins us to talk about their new book (published by Deseret Book in May 2023) about 23 remarkable Latter-day Saint women called “She Did: Ordinary Women, Extraordinary Faith.”
Bekki and Emily share some of their own stories (education, careers) and the reasons for writing this book—which highlights the stories of 23 women. Most of these women are largely unknown to a broad Latter-say Saint audience—but typify the faithfulness of millions of Latter-day Saint women. Hearing their stories helps us develop courage and faith—and better vision to write our own stories.
A few of the woman may be familiar to readers such as Aurelia Spencer Rogers (founded the Primary program); Irene Corbett (died on the Titanic, and subject of Elder Cook’s “The Songs They Could Not Sign 2011 Conference Talk); and Chieko Okazaki (former Relief Society General Presidency). The book shares more about these remarkable women including interviews with surviving family members.
I encourage everyone (men and women) to read this book and share it with others. It helps give vision—especially to younger Latter-day Saints—on ways to serve and bless others.
Thank you, Bekki and Emily, for being on the podcast and writing this book.
Links:
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1639931325
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/she-did?variant_id=201624-paperback
Instagram Account: @shedidbook
Elder Cook’s Talk: site.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/the-songs-they-could-not-sing?lang=eng
My friend Dan McClellan (married father of three, active LDS, @maklelan) joins us to share his story how his long academic road (two masters and a PhD) has opened unexpected doors for him to bring his biblical expertise and pastoral heart to bless others. Dan talks about how scripture should not be weaponized and how good scholarship helps us reduce vitriol and bring us together.
Dan shares how he started a TikTok account in 2021 and how his work has grown to a major social presence on all platforms. Dan talks about how we should also use scripture teachings to help the marginalized and how they do not support identity politics. I was deeply moved listening to Dan and his fact based/scriptural approach to help us to better.
Thank you, Dan, for being on the podcast and for your needed voice in our community and beyond.
Links:
TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@maklelan
Instagram: @maklelan
Twitter: @maklelan
Facebook: www.facebook.com/daniel.o.mcclellan
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@maklelan
Podcast (Data over Dogma): podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/data-over-dogma/id1681418502
Dan McClellan bio: danielomcclellan.wordpress.com/about/
My friend Dr. Julia Bernards (LDS married mother of 4, PhD from BYU, LMFT) joins us to talk about her 2022 BYU Dissertation called “This Whole Journey was Sacred: Latter-day Saint Parents’ Process in Coming to Accept a Transgender Child.”
In her groundbreaking dissertation Julia shares the key findings of the research as well as a brief history of gender diversity, key terms to understand, perspectives on identity, grief and resiliency, and her research methodology (analyzing data from over a hundred LDS parents with a transgender child). She includes lots of quotes from parents as well as recommendations for clinicians.
Julia's findings focus on the facets and stages of the family journey to love, accept and support a transgender child leading to peace and a strong family relationship. It is a journey that is not linear; it is unique to each family—but Julia frames this up in a way that provides hope, perspective, and principles to navigate this road.
This is not just research for Julia as Julia and her husband Sam are parents of a transgender daughter, Emma. They bring their story as parents—combined with the research—to provide valuable insights.
I was deeply moved listening to Julia. If you are a parent, local leader, or interested Latter-day Saint, I encourage you to listen to this podcast. It will help you understand and better support transgender Latter-day Saints. And if you are transgender, I believe this podcast will help you in our journey.
Thank you, Julia, for your life-saving work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast!
Links:
Dr. Julia Bernard’s Dissertation: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10818&context=etd
Transgender Podcasts at Listen Learn and Love (includes Episode 631 from Dave and Kimi Martin): https://listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts
My friend Marci McPhee (active LDS, now single, mother of six, grandmother of sixteen, writer & editor) joins us to talk about life lessons learned since joining the Church at age 16, being single after two temple marriages (with a cancellation of sealing between), raising a stepfamily in a duplex, her career in higher education, and now editor to folks like Steve Young, Fatimah Salleh, David Ostler, & two of my three books.
Marci is dear personal friend, remarkable person, and gifted editor. Her personal story is powerful. It is one of the finest examples of “write your own story with Christ.” I encourage everyone to listen to Marci’s podcast—it will help you find peace, hope, and perspective in your life.
You can connect with Marci at marcimcpheewriter.com
My friend Ashly Stone (married mother of two) joins us to share her remarkable journey of battling additions (which included heroin and jail time) and her journey to recovery. It is a remarkable story of courage, faith and “surrendering”. A key part of Ashly’s recover was her path to reconnect with the Church and access the healing power and hope of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Ashly shares powerful concepts like “I decided to create the person I wanted to be”, and “let your past empower you”. Ashly’s personal story is powerful and give others hope that they can pull out of very difficult and sometimes near hopeless situations. For more on Ashly’s story, check out the first episode on her podcast and also her episode on the All-In podcast.
Ashly then talks about the podcast she hosts and founded called “Come Back Podcast” which is stories of people who have returned to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (we production help from her friend Lauren Rose). This remarkable podcast, which is gaining significant traction in our community, has powerful and vulnerable stories of people who have returned.
Thank you, Ashly, for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You and your husband Jesse are doing much good in our community. I encourage everyone to hear your story and connect with your podcast.
Links:
Come Back Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-back-podcast/id1641798510
Ashly Stone e-mail: ashly.comebackpodcast@gmail.com
Ashly’s episode on All-In Podcast: https://www.ldsliving.com/all-in/ashly-stone-the-power-of-the-comeback
My friends Jacob Rugh, Michael Wood and Grace Soelberg (all from the Department of Sociology at BYU) join us to talk about their new peer-reviewed and scholarly published research to better understanding the experience of Black Latter-day Saints.
The research article is called “Making Space Behind the Veil: Black Agency within a Predominantly White Religion” in the Journal of Scientific Study of Religion (see show notes to access the article).
In the podcast Jacob, Michael and Grace give powerful insights and examples to better understand the experience of Black Latter-day Saints—including the concept of W.E.B. Du Bois’s concept of ‘twoness.’ They also talk about why they embarked on this groundbreaking research effort and their hopes on how the findings can help improve the experience and better value the contributions of Black Latter-day Saints.
I was so moved listening to these three authors. The principles and insights help me new tools and perspectives to help better create Zion, see and address racism within myself, and the work we still need to do in our community.
I encourage everyone to listen to his episode and check out their research. Thank you, Jacob, Michael, and Grace, for your needed voice in our community!
Links:
Article in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jssr.12854
Pre-print open access PDF version of our article (no subscription required): https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7693&context=facpub
My friend Melissa Dalton-Bradford (married mother of four raised over 30 years across nine countries; author of books, articles and poetry; public speaker; MA in Comparative Literature from BYU; co-founder of two non-profits—TSOSrefugees and Mormon Women for Ethical Government), joins us during her trip from her home in Germany to Utah to talk about loss, grief, and living onward.
That’s actually the title of one of her books: On Loss and Living Onward: Collected Voices for the Grieving and Those Who Would Mourn With Them.
She spoke freely about her family’s experience with traumatic loss, and took us through some vital points from her writing. The book takes readers through the death of her son Parker in a drowning accident in 2007 at age 18 and her family’s efforts at finding hope, healing, and peace.
The book in organized in five sections: Life at Death; Love at Death; Living After Death; Learning From Death; and Life, Love and Light Over Death.
Melissa is open, raw, honest, vulnerable, and courageous as she shares her immense pain and truths she and her family have learned on this 16-year journey she willingly shares with others.
With phrases like “The land of grief”, “death is the great educator”, and “we bond on our broken edges,” Melissa gets at the core of why suffering is also the mortar of true community. She also suggests things we should do and should not do to help someone grieving—powerful lists I hope we discuss openly across our faith community to grow into individuals and a people who can fulfill the core covenant of bearing burdens, mourning, comforting, and being witnesses of God’s presence.
I was so deeply moved listening to Melissa. This is a powerful podcast that I encourage all of us to listen to and share with others. It will help you if you are in any sort of grief right now, and it will help all of us who will be walking this road in the future—either in your own grief or walking alongside someone else’s grief.
Thank you, Melissa, for your great work in our community. Your voice is so needed. It is an honor to have you in our home and on the podcast.
Links:
On Loss and Living Onward: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1938301927
Global Mom: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZK9S4F3
Let Me Tell You My Story: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1641700491
Parker’s Obituary: https://www.deseret.com/2007/7/27/19758849/obituary-parker-fairbourne-bradford
More on Parker’s Legacy: https://www.thechurchnews.com/2007/12/15/23232276/young-mans-death-impacts-many-lives
My friends Don and Jenny Hong (married parents of 4) and their gay son Isaac (age 30, RM, has boyfriend) join us to share their family story. Isaac starts with his story of coming out to his parents about 8 years ago following his successful mission and doing everything he knew to be straight. Jenny and Don then share their journey to love and support their gay son and his long-term boyfriend Brock. It’s been a journey for the Hong family with some ups and downs—but a beautiful family love story with a foundation in love, curiosity, listening and honest communication.
Don (a former Bishop) then shares a talk he gave (that has since gone viral) called "The Gift of Doubt: How doubt and a gay son brought me closer to God." It is a powerful talk based on Brother Jared Halverson’s stages of faith. Don’s talk hits on a key need in our Church community to normalize doubt and learn to develop new models and perspectives to make our way forward as Latter-day Saints.
If you are a parent of a queer child or a child who has chosen to step away from the church, please listen to this podcast. Don and Jenny advice/story/principles will help you.
If you are in a faith journey (or helping others deciding to stay or step away) and are looking for new tools/perspectives, Don’s talk will help you. Faith journeys are ever evolving and different for everyone, and the Hong family is continually learning to drop unhealthy expectations and better focus on loving and listening to each other.
And if you are a queer Latter-day Saint, Isaac’s honest/powerful story will give you hope.
Thank you, Don, Jenny and Isaac, for being on the podcast. You are helping so many!
Links:
Don’s Talk: www.facebook.com/don.hong.56/posts/6563223063728507
Index of Podcasts: listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Patrick Risk (who was most recently on Episode 297) joins us to talk about his new book “One Day at a Time: Daily Hope for Those Navigating Their Own Path of Healing.” Patrick bravely shares his own life story (including being a survival of sexual abuse, having an eating disorder, and being gay) to bring practical advice and insights for those looking to find peace, healing, and hope.
Patrick talks about going from “what if to what now” and going from “victim to victor.”
If you are dealing with the complexities of a difficult mortal world and want an authentic voice to give you principles to find peace and hope, please listen to this podcast and read Patricks’ powerful book.
Patrick will help you feel God’s love, understand that you are not alone, and that you are strong enough to overcome any obstacles that you face. Thank you, Patrick, for being on the podcast and for your remarkable life ministry to bless others. You are a great man.
Links:
Patrick’s book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1312789522
Brightness of Hope Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/384339915547209
Worldwide Unified Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/534352464165662
My friend Jon Rogers (Washington DC RM, recently divorced, attending church, has boyfriend) joins us to share his story. Jon talks about his foundational principles of faith, trust, and patience to guide his life. Jon talks about knowing he was gay but never accepting or believing his he was gay until a deeply spiritual experience about two years ago that helped to better understand how our Heavenly Father feels about him. That led Jon to come out to his wife and then his parents and his two teenage daughters. Jon talks about why his marriage ultimately ended and how he is making his way forward “doing the best I can.”
Jon talks about why he continues to attend church (often with his boyfriend Nate), the importance of personal revelation, and grace.
I’m grateful for Jon’s courage to share his story. Hearing his story helps us better understand and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and also gives LGBTQ Latter-day Saints principles and perspectives as they write their story.
Thank you, Jon, for being on the podcast and your courage/vulnerability to share your story. Let’s follow your example and give ourselves and others grace that “we are doing the best we can.”
Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Samuel Benson (2023 BYU grad, Boston RM, staff writer for the Deseret News), join us to talk more about his powerful BYU commencement speech call “Our Place in Zion”. Samuel (Sociology and Spanish major, pursuing a career in journalism, and author of an upcoming book about Latter-day Saint immigration) talks about creating Zion.
A Zion where all belong. A Zion which is “one of diversity and of peace, one of everlasting joy”. A “Zion defines itself in terms of inclusion, a mission to allow all to find belonging.” Samuel expands on his thoughtful speech with more insights, leader quotes, principles, and examples from the life of Christ to help everyone feel they belong. A Zion with differences and diversity—but unified.
I was deeply moved by Samuel’s insights. Samuel talks these big idea concepts and brings them into practical application to “lift where we stand.” Samuel concludes with his testimony and how he navigates the complicated issues to always be “led back” to the core of his testimony and be “tethered there.”
I encourage everyone to listen to Samuel’s speech and his podcast to better create Zion. Thank you, Samuel, for being on the podcast and your great work in our community.
Podcast Links:
Samuel’s speech on YouTube: https://speeches.byu.edu/speakers/samuel-b-benson/
Script of Samuel’s speech: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/samuel-b-benson/our-place-in-zion/
Wayfare Magazine article: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/a-zion-for-all-of-us
My friend Jeff Andersen (married father of three, active LDS) joins us to share his story to become an LGBTQ+ Ally and start his Instagram account @latter.day.stonecatchers . Jeff starts with his own journey in the Church through “reconstruction and expansion”—which has occurred twice through Jeff's journey, including once within the last few years—and why he remains a committed Latter-day Saint.
Jeff then talks about a spiritual impression to learn about queer Latter-day Saints which led to a transforming experience a few years ago in his Ward. I was deeply moved hearing this experience.
Jeff concludes with his reading of Isaiah 1:17, which he felt specifically and strongly as a spiritual call direct from his Heavenly Parents to be an ally to queer Latter-day Saints and start his Instagram account, podcast, and YouTube channel.
I was deeply moved listening to Jeff’s story. Jeff has a gift of understanding our doctrine and practically applying it to help people walking a more complicated road. If you are (or want to be an ally), please listen to Jeff's story. And if you are a local leader, parent of a queer child, or a queer Latter-day Saint, Jeff’s work/voice will help you feel God’s love, the hope of our Savior, and more peace in your life as well as help you bring these things to others.
Thank you, Jeff, for being on the podcast and your work to create Zion.
Podcast Links:
Instagram: @latter.day.stonecatchers
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100091855963860
Latter-day Stonecatchers Podcast (all platforms) & YouTube Channel: linktr.ee/latter.day.stonecatchers
Elder Uchtdorf Quote: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/charity-is-core-of-the-gospel-president-uchtdorf-tells-inner-city-missionaries
Elder Renlund Quote: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2021/04/25renlund?lang=eng
My friend Kaleb Cox joins us to share his journey to better understand and support our LGBTQ friends. Kaleb talks about how his Dad’s speech in June 2016 following the killing of 49 patrons at the Pulse club in Orlando (a gay nightclub) moved him to reconsider his assumptions about queer people (https://www.ksl.com/article/40209267/lt-gov-cox-speaks-at-vigil-for-orlando-my-heart-has-changed).
Kaleb talks about his missing and serving in Tahiti (good experience) but then Covid hit in March 2020, and he had to leave and was eventually reassigned to Farmington, New Mexico. Kaleb talks about the culture of his mission that was difficult at times and didn’t reflect Jesus. Kaleb talks about how he navigated this, served, helped people along the way, and successfully completed his mission. I was deeply moved hearing more about Kaleb’s courage in the face of serious headwinds (Covid, difficult culture, etc) to serve because of his desire to help lift the hands of others.
Kaleb then talks about his post-mission adjustment and then finding his home at SUU (Southern Utah University) where he is a psychology major and has many friends—including his queer friends. Kaleb talks about his love and support of his queer friends and “seeing life through their eyes”.
I was deeply moved listening to Kaleb who represent the best of the future—people focused on helping others---especially those walking the most difficult roads.
Thank you, Kaleb, for being on the podcast. You are a good man. Love and admire you and your wonderful family!
Podcast Links:
Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Cole Conner joins us to share his remarkable story. Cole talks about being bullied and realizing his same-sex-attraction. Cole talks about coming out to his parents/bishop and finding support—but also feeling some anger towards the Church. That led to Cole leaving the Church, returning to the Church, again leaving the Church and returning again.
Cole talks about his life outside the Church being involved in the LGBTQ community—and why he couldn’t find sustained happiness. Cole talks about the constant love he feels from his Heavenly Father and Savior and their foundational role to give him hope and perspective. Cole also talks about working through two periods of being suicidal.
Cole talks about finding sustained peace and joy in the Church and why his spiritual identity is straight. He talks about his hopes for the future including marrying a woman and having a family.
Each story we share on this platform is unique and valid. I was deeply moved listening to Cole’s story and his journey. The gospel principles in Cole’s story help each of us find hope, peace, and the role of our Heavenly Parents and Savior in our lives.
Thank you, Cole, for being on the podcast. You are a remarkable man. Your story will help so many!
Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Dr. Julie Fraumeni-McBride (married LDS mother of six children) joins us from her home in Temecula, CA to talk about helping women solve porn use. Julie (who got her PhD in Education and Disabilities Studies and now is a Researcher and Education Program designer at the Steadfast Institute) helps us understand the latest research to end porn use. Julie talks about why the addiction/recovery model is not supported by the latest research—while the ACT model is. Julie also talks about framing porn as a reliance and not an addiction. She talks about helping people deconstruct the shame around porn and how that is a key step to ending porn use. Julie also talks about how parents need to be the “trusted experts” for their children regarding topics around human sexuality—included why this is important, how to do this, and how normalizing these types of conversations is important and doesn’t lead to more curiosity. I was deeply moved by Julie’s insights as a researcher and program designer. I’m grateful for Julie’s voice using facts to give us more tools to solve porn use. If you are working to end porn use (male or female) or what to help others, this will be one of the most helpful podcasts for you. Thank you, Julie, for all your needed work in our community and beyond. Podcast Links: The Steadfast Institute: https://www.thesteadfastinstitute.org/ Dr. Fraumeni-McBride’s Instagram Page: @drfraumenimcbride The Steadfast Institute Instagram Page: @thesteadfastinstitute Researchers mentioned: Brian Willougby https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/brian-willoughbyNathan Leonhardt https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/nathan-leonhardtChelom Leavitt https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/chelom-leavittDean Busby https://fhssfaculty.byu.edu/directory/dean-busbyJason Carroll https://familylife.byu.edu/directory/jason-carroll
My friend Josh Sabey (married father of two, noted documentary filmmaker) joins us to talk about his new book called “Ali, The Iraqi”. It is a story (both factual and fictional) of a 16 year old Iraqi exchange student named Ali moving to the United States and staying with Josh and his family. When Ali runs away from the program, it takes some Mormons, a Non-denominational Christian, and an Atheist to help Ali survive and reconnect with his Muslim faith.
On the podcast, Josh shares stories from the book that show the sustaining power of love and faith—even across different religions. It’s a powerful story about reducing divineness, finding common ground, and loving/supporting each other.
I encourage everyone to check out Josh’s book.
Links:
Josh's book is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218844
As a bonus, here is an essay Josh recently had published in Wayfare Magazine: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/god-and-onions
Personal website is: https://www.joshuasabey.com/
My friend Michele Portlock (married mother of 4) joins us to share her story. Michele talks about parenting neurodivergent children (e.g. ADHD, Autism) which led her to go back to college to get a Masters Degree in special education and start an LLC called Navigating the Spectrum—which also includes a podcast. Michele brings her experience as a parent, academic training, and professional work to bring more tools and understanding to “better show up” for neurodivergent children. I learned so much listening to Michele. Michele also talks about her gay daughter Brielle who recently graduated college. She talks about working through autism, anxiety, and dark times around her sexual orientation—to now a thriving daughter who is doing much good in the world with her college work and her plans for a PhD. Michele talks about the correlation between neurodivergent children and not being straight—but she clearly points out that being neurodivergent is a diagnosis while not being straight is who people are. And ending being neurodivergent doesn’t change someone sexual orientation/gender identity. Michele also talks about the journey to love and support her daughter Brielle as she has stepped away from the Church and rebuilding their relationship in new and thoughtful ways. Thank you, Michele, for being on the podcast and your wonderful work in our community. I encourage all parents (even without neurodivergent children) to listen to this podcast to learn how we can better love and support others. Podcast Links: Website: www.micheleportlock.com Instagram: @navigating.the.spectrum
My friend Debra Coe (active LDS mother of 5) and longtime LGBTQ Ally joins us to share the latest research on Gen Z (the loneliest generation), their mental health and what we can do to help them feel needed and a clear feeling of belonging. This is the focus of her latest Op-Ed in the Deseret News in March 2023 (see show notes for link). Debra talks what we can do to be a “trusted adult” and what we can do to help people feel like they matter—in both our congregations and ward families. Debra shares some family story with her gay son Lincoln (who came out and married his husband Robert in 2017). She talks about how their family and congregation navigated this (part of their beautiful family love story). If you are looking for research, insights, and practical examples about creating belonging in your family and/or congregation, I encourage you to listen to this episode and share it with others. Thank you, Debra, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our community to save lives and bring us together. Podcast Links: Debra’s Deseret News Op-Ed: https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2023/3/20/23645047/religion-belonging-gen-z-mental-health Sheep Story: https://www.facebook.com/debra.coe/posts/10158288638770838 Earlier Episode on Our Podcast (Episode 16): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-16-don-and-debra-coe-parents-of-a-wonderful-gay-son
My friends Richard Turley and Barbara Jones Brown, noted Latter-day Saint historians, join us to talk about their powerful new book about the Mountain Meadows Massacre of an Arkansas wagon train in 1857. Through their extensive research, they answer questions about why it happened, who was responsible, Bigham Young’s understanding/involvement, descendants of victims stories/interactions, and reconciliation. I was deeply moved—sometimes to tears—learning about this tragic part of Latter-day Saint history. Understanding and owning our history is key to reconciliation and ensuring the same cycle of fear and extremism isn’t repeated. I am so grateful for Rick and Barbara and their work to write this history, connect with the descendants of the victims, and help heal hearts. This book is both a thoughtful academic book and a powerful story of pain, heartache, tragedy, and reconciliation. I encourage everyone to read this book and listen to this podcast. Thank you Rick and Barbara for being on the podcast and your much-needed work in our community. Podcast links:Vengeance is Mine: The Mountain Meadows Massacre and Its Aftermath: www.amazon.com/dp/0195397851 Massacre at Mountain Meadows (earlier book): www.amazon.com/dp/0199747563 E-mail: mmmreconciliation@gmail.com
My friends Aaron and Julie Bujnowski (married parents of two; living North of Dallas, Texas), join us to talk about their love of the Temple and its ability to connect us with Jesus and personal revelation, which led to writing a book called “Discovering Your Temple Insights.” The book is different than most Latter-day Saint books about the Temple. As one reader called it, “Come follow me for the Temple.” In the podcast, Aaron and Julie (who both grew up in Nashville, Tennessee) share what they have learned during years of temple attendance and provide practical steps to make the Temple more real in our lives in terms of both the blessings of keeping covenants but also the ability to receive insights and personal revelation inside and outside the Lord’s house. I love the Temple and am grateful for Aaron and Julie bringing forth this excellent book—really a working guide—to make the Temple more real in our lives. Please check out their podcast and book---I believe it will bless your life. Thank you, Aaron, and Julie, for your thoughtful and needed work. Podcast Link: Discovering Your Temple Insights: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462144756 Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/discovering-your-temple-insights
My friend Ben Ferney (Australia Sydney RM, Former Weber State LDS Institute President, and Weber State Student Body President) joins us to share his story. Ben talks about the hope and happiness that is ahead for LGBTQ people. He talks about trying to date women and dodging questions about his apparent lack of interest in dating. After a brake up, Ben concluded she was the last girl he would date. That led Ben to come out to his family and friends (very positive support). Ben then talks about his decision to date men and doing that with God and his family’s involvement with intention and with boundaries. Ben talks about finding Calvin Smith (Episode 432, https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-432-calvin-smith-rm-byu-grad-gay-active-lds-plans-to-marry-a-man) last year and falling in love and their decision to be married in July of 2023. Ben and Calvin (who shared some thoughts on the podcast) talk about their active LDS family support (including being present for the engagement) and their desire to stay church-attending Latter-day Saints. Ben talks about his relationship with God, Jesus, his love of the Church, and desire to continue to help and lift others. Ben talks about his desire to build a life together with Calvin, have a family, and participate in the Church as much as they are allowed. I was moved by the maturity of Ben and Calvin. I encourage everyone (allies, parents, local leaders, queer Latter-day Saints) to listen to their story. It’s a story about courage, being intentional, going slow, showing grace to others on different paths, and keeping God in their lives. Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. Congrats on your upcoming wedding. Your story will help so many. Podcast Links:Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saintsAmazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jim Kasen (active LDS, mid 60’s, Same Sex Attraction) shares his story of his deep religious conversion/conviction; his anxiety; and his same sex attraction. Jim talks about how his Savior has been his constant rock in navigating the realities of his life including navigating difficult church experiences around his sexual orientation and why he stays a member of the Church. Jim has written a new book called “To Belong to Him” which I encourage everyone to read. In the book, Jim talks about the practical application of his relationship with the Savior as the foundation of his faith—and his way to move forward as a committed Latter-day Saint. The principles in Jim’s book apply to all of us. Jim’s book/story is a life of faith, courage, hope, and grace. I encourage everyone to listen to Jim’s podcast and read his book. Thank you, Jim, for all your work in our community as a clinical social worker, as the director of BYU University Relations, and as a kind and generous disciple of Christ. Podcast Links: Jim’s Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXTSC82N NorthStar June Conference: https://www.northstarsaints.org/2023-north-star-conference To Begin Again by Naomi Levy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0345413830Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Skyler Sorensen joins us to talk about his new book called “Exclude Not Thyself: Thriving as a Covenant-Keeping, Gay Latter-day Saint”. In the podcast Skyler talks about why he wrote the book, principals to love LGBTQ Latter-day Saints in a faith-centered way, and some of his story including finding his wife Amanda and starting a family (a beautiful love story).Skyler also talks about his podcast called “Sit Down with Sky and Amanda” and his upcoming breakout session at NorthStar (June 15-18, 2023). I was deeply moved listening to Sky share his story. I encourage everyone to check out his new book and podcast. Thank you Sky for being on the podcast and your good work in our community. You are a good man. Glad to have you on the podcast. Podcast Links: Skyler’s book (preorder): Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXBFQ3VV Cedar Fort: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/exclude-not-thyself-how-to-thrive-as-a-covenant-keeping-gay-latter-day-saint Skyler’s Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sit-down-with-sky-and-amanda/id1574970502Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Noted Latter-day Saint authors McArthur Krishna and Bethany Brady Spalding (who have co-authored 7 LDS books) join us to talk about their latest book called “In the Image of our Heavenly Parents: A Couples Guide to Creating a More Divine Marriage.” Celebrating restoration theology of Heavenly Parents, this guidebook offers twelve principles for creating more divine marriages–filled with prophetic counsel, professional expertise, and practices for partnership. Focusing on one principle a month, couples can embark on a year-long journey to create a marriage in the image of our Heavenly Parents–an equal partnership that is collaborative, committed to growth, mutually-empowering, and full of joy! The book includes contributors from LDS therapists Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-File, Dr Julie Hanks, Dr. Ty Mansfield, and Geoff and Judy Steurer. I was deeply moved listening to McArthur and Bethany learning about their ground-breaking book based on our doctrine of equality in marriages. At the end of the podcast, they also shared advice to Latter-day Saint women struggling to find their place in the Church—this is a powerful bonus segment. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and check out their book. Podcast Links: In order to make this vital tool as accessible as possible, we are offering a $10 discount on the ebook. At D Street press, please use code PAPA10. If finances prohobit your purchase, please email howdy@dstreetpress.com and we will work it out! https://dstreetpress.myshopify.com/products/a-couples-guide-to-creating-a-more-divine-marriage Otherwise, it’s available on Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/099860528X McArthur Krishna and Bethany Brady Spalding are the co-authors of the best-selling Deseret Book series, Girls Who Choose God and Guides to Heavenly Mother. They’ve spent the past decade writing books together–almost always living on different continents and always having a wild story to tell.
My friend Loren G. Dalton (former LDS Mission President) joins us to talk about his new book called “You ARE Receiving Revelation - Now Act on It”. In the podcast, Loren shares both the theology of this doctrine and practical application (including powerful stories) to make this real in our lives. Brother Dalton spoke on this subject at an Ensign College devotional (see link below). I encourage everyone to check out Brother Dalton’s book. When you do, you will find that I am one of the book endorsements at the front of his book. So many people struggle with either believing they aren't getting revelation or in learning how to better recognize it when it comes. I believe this book will help each of us better see, understand, and apply personal revelation in our lives, in addition to helping us learn how to recognize and avoid promptings from the adversary. If you have been struggling to find a great Mother's Day gift, this book could be your answer! Thank you, Loren, for your great work in our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Podcast Links: Ensign College Devotional: https://www.ensign.edu/devotionals/loren-dalton Amazon Book link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462145132 (Note: Brother Dalton's book is also available at Cedar Fort, Deseret Book, Seagull Book, Barnes & Noble and other fine sellers). Brother Dalton's e-mail: Loren@HeavensBings.com
My friends Ashli Carnicelli, Trina Caudle, and McArthur Krishna join us to talk about their new book “Cherish: the Joy of Our Mother in Heaven.” The book is organized around the Gospel Topics essay on Heavenly Mother. The book authors talk about why they wrote the book, their thoughtful and moving feelings about Heavenly Mother, and the spiritual benefits in our lives of having a Heavenly Mother. This book is supportive of the Church, leaders, and our doctrine. It is a book to help make the doctrine of our Heavenly Mother real, intentional, and active in our lives—and in Church conversations. Thank you, Ashli, Trina and McArthur, for your needed work. I was deeply moved by your insights and good hearts. I encourage everyone to read this book. Podcast Links: Amazon link for CHERISH: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1948218879 A Couple's Guide to Creating a More Divine Marriage (eBook): https://dstreetpress.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/a-couples-guide-to-creating-a-more-divine-marriage A Girl's Guide to Heavenly Mother: https://deseretbook.com/p/girls-guide-to-heavenly-mother?variant_id=194661-hardcover A Boy's Guide to Heavenly Mother: https://deseretbook.com/p/boys-guide-to-heavenly-mother?variant_id=194660-hardcover Faith Matters video for Mother's Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&app=desktop&v=LTxLR_swmcY Ashli’s newsletter: https://pearlsoflight.substack.com/ Combined IG account @cherisheddoctrine Personal IG accounts: @ashlicarncelli @libraryhouseediting @mcarthurkrishna_creates
My friend Richie Steadman (active LDS, podcaster, DJ, great human) joins us to share some of his story. Richie talks about how life, following his successful mission in Cleveland, took some unexpected turns which included Richie being out of the Church for several years. Richie is open about that and how he navigated not only the mistakes he made but painful church experiences around those mistakes that didn’t feel like Jesus. Richie also talks about his many interests and how we found his way to a steady career—a story that is very helpful for younger Latter-day Saints whose career interests may not fit into the nice tidy box of Church culture expectations. Richie also shares the backstory of starting The Cultural Hall Podcast twelve years ago—one of the very first Latter-day Saint themed podcast that is approaching 700 episodes. A podcast that is doing much good in our community. He also talks about his work professionally to help other podcasters get their efforts off the ground. Thank you, my friend Richie, for being on the podcast and all your good work. Podcast Links (feel free to add more): The Cultural Hall Podcast: https://www.theculturalhallpodcast.com/
My friend Emily Evans (UVU grad, San Antonio/Austin, RM, plans to marry her girlfriend) joins us to share her story. Emily talks about her years prior to her mission trying to figure out her sexuality. Part of that journey was being in a relationship with her boyfriend and also falling in love with a female friend. Emily talks about the difference in these experiences helping to clarify her sexuality. She talks about the support from both her straight boyfriend and her straight female friend and how they were both open to this conversation. During this time Emily came out to some friends and family (good experience). Emily then talks about her decision to serve a mission and her desire to live a life of celibacy. She talks about her positive mission experience and glad she served. Emily then talks about life after her mission and rethinking her plans to be celibate and instead consider dating women. Emily talks about falling in love and hopes for their upcoming wedding. Emily talks about her love and support for her LDS family and their love and support to Emily. It is a good example of keeping the family circle together in our differences. I also share some of my thoughts on how I hope we treat people who separate themselves from the Church and how I hope they treat us in return. The Evans family is a wonderful example of this. Thank you, Emily, for sharing your story. You have a wonderful life ahead of you. Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Thomas Auseuga joins us from Brisbane, Australia (my first LGBTQ guest from Australia) to share his story. Thomas (who is in his 20's and served a mission in the Philippines) talks about realizing he was different around age 12 and then processing that alone until he came out as gay to his mother at age 16. Thomas talks about believing he was the only Latter-day Saint with these feelings and concluding he was a bad person. He talks about all the gay jokes and rhetoric that led to immense—and deserved—shame. Thomas talks about his young adult years and then coming out again to his mother at age 22 before his mission—including why being gay was not discussed during the six years since coming out at age 16. Thomas talks about how his relationship with Heavenly Father and his Savior is crucial to his journey.Thomas talks about his mission (good experience), returning home, and his efforts to find a girl and get married. Thomas talks about the anxiety of dating and being reminded of not being unable to connect with women—leading to shame, discouragement and feeling broken. Thomas talks about coming out to friends and family and then his brave decision to come out publicly in February 2023—one of the very first openly queer Latter-day Saints in Australia.Thomas, who is still an active Latter-day Saint, talks about what he has learned, how he can help others (he is currently a Student Social Worker at University), what he would say to his younger self, and his hopes for the future. I was so impressed listening to Thomas. He is so brave to be out in a place with few examples or role models. Thank you, Thomas, for being on the podcast and for your example of courage, faith, and hope. You are a remarkable man and doing much good in our Church and beyond. Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Dr. Jordon and Liz Sharp (LDS parents of five children) join us from St George, Utah to share their story of hope and healing. Jordon (VP of Marketing at Utah Tech University) and Liz (Registered Hospice Nurse) share their unexpected journey as a traditional LDS family who experienced everything from trauma, confusion, and loss to miracles, enlightenment, and overwhelming joy as they became a LDS/LQBTQ family through their gay son Sam (who turns 18 in 2023 and is the oldest). Jordon and Liz start their experience when Jordon served as a Bishop to a closeted gay young woman in their ward who attempted suicide and they were the first-responders on the scene; but describe how this terrible situation helped them more fully understand our Heavenly Parents love for all their children. It’s a powerful part of their story. Jordon and Liz then talk about the text they received years later from their then 13-year-old-son Sam letting them know he is gay. They intimately and powerfully share their roadmap of making mistakes, learning, loving, healing, and ultimately understanding this isn’t a phase or mistake, but a unique, meaningful, and wonderful part of their lives. They talk about how Sam is thriving because of the love he feels from family and friends—and his great heart, maturity, and soul. They talk about how they wish every parent could have a Sam. It is a beautiful family love story. Jordon and Liz shared their thoughts in a viral Facebook post (see show notes for link) about Sam, our LGBTQ brothers and sisters, and what we can do to be better. It’s a beautiful Facebook post that I encourage us as a Latter-day Saint community to read and discuss how we can do better. Thank you, Jordon and Liz, for being on the podcast. I was deeply moved listening to you—it is a sacred place to hear your story. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this podcast. Their story helps better Gather Israel and create Zion. Podcast Link: Facebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/jordon.sharp/posts/pfbid02SUkPEQbASdBW47pSi368meXdTHWbRLAw9U7op31SKLC29H16ayVeyGyxnjSKQejjl Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Thomas Swain joins us from New Zealand to share his story. Thomas (who grew up in England) joins us to share his story. Thomas starts with knowing at an early age he had feelings for someone of the same gender but put that away and moved forward. Thomas talks about his wonderful mission experience (West Indies 2006-2008), teaching at the New Zealand MTC for 5 years and working for church media productions. These were deeply spiritual times for Thomas which also allowed him to put this attract to men on the shelf. After the MTC assignment, Thomas talks about the 10+ years working to marry a woman and how all those relationships ended. That filled Thomas with the pain of not being able to fall in love and move to his next step as a Latter-day Saint and also knowing he left behind women thinking the breakup might have been their fault. That led Thomas to some of his darkest days with feelings of suicidal ideation. Concurrent with not being able to fall in love with a women, Thomas did many things to serve in our Church including starting missiongeek.net (600K visitors to help prepare missionaries, now offline); executive producer in 2020 global youth theme video “Go and Do” with over 4 million views. Link: https://youtu.be/zeGC8lS20d8 He also helped with FSYs and YSA events around the Pacific. During these experiences Thomas worked with many senior Church leaders. After not feeling able to marry a woman, Thomas stopped dating for several years. Thomas then shares how he starts to date men a couple of years ago, and how that has brought him much joy, peace and hope into his life. Thomas and his boyfriend attend Church and are met with love and kindness from ward members. Thomas also has supportive parents who have come to love and accept their son. Thomas talks about his love of and hopes for the Church and for more kindness/acceptance of LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. I was deeply moved listening to Thomas and his spiritual and emotional maturity. Thank you Thomas for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You are vulnerable and very brave. You story will help so many as we work to expand the boarders of Zion. You can reach Thomas at: e-mail: Thomas Swain (thomasleviswain@gmail.com) IG: @themissiongeek Facebook: facebook.com/thomascarte Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Aubrey Dabel joins us to share bravely share her story hopes others do not feel alone. Aubrey starts her story in High School (Southern Oregon) realizing she is attracted to girls and unexpectedly falling in love. That led Aubrey to a lot of shame and self-loathing. Aubrey talks turning to her Heavenly Father and Temple attendance to find peace and hope. She also talks about her supportive parents. Aubrey talks about her mission—both positive and some negative experiences. Aubrey is pleased with her service and feels love and support from her mission family. Aubrey talks about balancing her relationship with the Church and honoring her sexuality. She talks about people that have been helpful in her life sitting with her and validating the complexity of her path forward. Aubrey talks about her hopes and the importance of being vulnerable. She concludes the podcast with her powerful testimony. Thank you for being on the podcast Aubrey. You are brave. You are courageous. Your story will help so many. Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Sarah Carter (active LDS, mother of three, Masters of Social Work) shares her journey growing up with abuse and trauma—and her story of not fitting the mold of a typical LDS youth. Sarah talks about how that abuse and trauma was tied to her three marriages that ended. After those marriages, Sarah looked inward with new clarity about the work she needed to do to heal and overcome over 20 years of trauma. Sarah knew that with good therapy, hard work and the Savior, she could break the cycle of trauma. Sarah also talks about her wonderful younger brother Daniel who died by suicide in 2014 at the age of 28. It is a tribute to him and his good heart—and turning to unhelpful coping mechanisms to deal with the pain and reality of his life. Sarah is now a LCSW and runs her own practice (see the show notes). Because of her own personal story, academic training, and clinical work, Sarah is able to help others. If you are in a tough spot and looking for hope, Sarah’s story will help you. Thank you Sarah for your courage. You are helping so many. Podcast Links: Daniel’s Facebook Post:So I had a great time and feel like my testimony is growing because I am putting time in listening to Conference, and reading my scriptures. Also I am taking the missionary discussions. The missionaries that come over are so awesome!! I am learning soooo much. And I am feeling more happy than I have in years!!!! So, I gotta start my CNA or some trade soon, still trying to decide what I can do, then I can be self dependent and put myself through school. I only have one semester I need to finish up to get my Associates degree. Well, im just happy my life is back on track. It feels very good. I took a detour there for a while but Im proud of myself for having the Willpower to say no more and pull myself out of the situation I was in. Very Painful, and hard, Love you, I am becoming very optimistic about life, where a while ago I was Depressed and kinda--apathetic? I guess there is Light at the end of the tunnel!!! I am glad to be the Genuine Daniel I am today!!!! Heart and Soul Wellness Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-80Rj978I&t=3sDaniel’s Tribute: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fQ0eiqh5fAaiPTQvDXvrrnWZ6ywTteoU/view
My friend Julie Cluff joins us from her home in Tennessee to share the story of being the driver of the vehicle, when she fell asleep, resulting in a rollover car accident that claimed the lives of her 10-year-old daughter Carrie and her 8-year-old son David. The accident happened on Mother’s Day in 2007. It is a parent’s worst nightmare. Julie bravely shares her story of grief/darkness and then her path to find peace and hope. It is a powerful story. Julie talks about the book she wrote in 2020 called “Miracles in the Darkness: Building a Life after Loss”, her work as a grief coach and trainer, and podcaster. If you are in grief¸ Julie’s podcast will help you. She talks about therapy, Jesus, her husband, friends, and the work she did personally to find hope and peace after unimaginable loss. And you might feel impressed to read her book and/or become a grief coach to help others. Thank you, Julie, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our community and beyond. Podcast links: Main Web Site: https://buildalifeafterloss.com/ Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462137520 Instagram: @buildalifeafterloss
My friend Stephen Monsen (Richfield Utah native, Wichita Kansas RM) joins us to bravely share his story. Stephen divides his story into four parts: The early years: Figuring out at age 17 he is gay and the immense shame her felt about his attractions. College freshman year: Intense loneliness, depression, some self-harm and coming out to this Bishop (good experience). Stephen talks about how his second semester was much better and turning in his mission papers: Mission: Stephen talks about his mission experience including serving others, companion experiences, improving his relationship with Heavenly Father, and coming out to his Mission President (good experience). He also talks about how the mission helped him accept being gay. Post Mission: Coming out to family (good experience), working with Heavenly Father to figure out his future, wand what he would know say to his 17-year-old self. I was deeply moved listening to Stephen and his deep maturity, his courage, and his desire to help others. I am so glad I felt impressed to reach out to Stephen to share his story. If you are LGBTQ or working to better support a LGBTQ friend or family member, this episode will help you. Thank you, Stephen, for sharing your story. It will help so many. You have a great life ahead of you. Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Trigger Warning: This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 My friends Dave and Kimi Martin join us to talk about their transgender son Levi who died of suicide in December of 2022 at the age of 17. Dave and Kimi (active LDS, Parents of 7, Live in Massachusetts) share their story of the journey to understand and then support their son. They do this to honor Levi and also to invite us to do better. They talk about their bright, intelligent son Levi—and their joint efforts to understand the cause of his emotional challenges which was finally understood to be being transgender. Even with that understanding they talk about how Levi—turning 18—was “terrified of how society treats transgender persons.” The Martins talk about the principle of “proximity” and the need to listen to and understand people different than how that helps us better love and support them. They talk about the heartache of losing a child, hopes on how we can do better to support queer people, and gratitude for the many acts/messages of support. I encourage everyone to listen to the Martin’s story and share it with friends. Discuss it as families and ward/stake councils. Consider what we can do to follow the example of Jesus to better support those marginalized by society. Their story and Levi’s life helps us better see, understand, love, and support transgender people. Thank you, Dave and Kimi, for being on the podcast and sharing your story. On behalf of all of our listeners, thank you. And we love the Martin family. Podcast links: Facebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/dmartinine/posts/pfbid013xyRvZFBTaXeEarY1RK3RTAhZKVjh4kxhDyWDbN1A56MKNz3RkCXkU1dUj6aS2ml Obituary: https://www.tributearchive.com/obituaries/26743430/levi-martin Eulogy: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NTKWqxgZBamE5hnuh7XhcKm2WyMUjs_B/view?fbclid=IwAR1AtQiPUIoheXLQ9PIk-TS2TaQvoucim3Ww-P3JDf7ZxzfiQSCxj-cD32I Gordon Laws: Irreantum Article: https://irreantum.associationmormonletters.org/_20-1-i-can-take-or-leave-it/ Evan Smith’s Crossroads: https://www.gayldscrossroads.org/
My friend McKenna Goodrich joins us via Zoom from her home in Georgia to bravely share her story in hopes of helping others. McKenna talks about coming out to herself knowing she was different and then coming out to others. McKenna talks her personal relationship with Jesus and love from her Heavenly Father that is helping her on her journey. McKenna (whose Mom Alicia Hall was on Episode 596) talks about the experiences that led her to understand she is lesbian how that, along with being a beloved daughter of God, is part of her identity—both being good things. McKenna talks about her patriarchal blessing, why she is a member of the Church, why she hopes to serve and mission, and her hopes for the future. McKenna is a member of Gen Z of which 19.7% identify as LGBTQ (Gallup). Thank you, McKenna, for being on the podcast. You are so brave. You being open gives hope to other queer Latter-day Saints and helps all of us consider who to better support our queer friends. Thank you for your courage. You have a great life ahead of you! Podcast Links: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saintsAmazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Emily Robinson Adams (married mother of three, appellate attorney) join us to talk about her new book called “Divine Quietness: Fining Meaning When Heaven is Silent”. In the book, Emily bravely shares her journey with prayers met with silence. She talks about why a loving God would not answer her prayers. Emily shares her experience—which occurred over a couple of years—to deconstruct and then reconstruct her belief in and relationship with God using a completely new framework. She talks about the books, practices, analogies and perspectives that helps her reconstruct her relationship with God. I was deeply moved listening to Emily. If you are wondering if God is there and/or why your prayers do not feel like they are being answered, Emily’s book will help you. It is not just theory—it includes her own powerful and vulnerable story. Emily’s book will also help you better help others. Thank you, Emily, for writing this book and being on the podcast. Your voice is so needed in our community. This book is a must-read. Podcast links: Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/divine-quietness Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZ2CZFJH
My friends Allison Dayton (founder of Lift and Love) and Ben Schilaty (co-host of Questions From The Closet and Author) join us to talk about a new LDS/LGBTQ event called “Gather: Christ-centered support for Latter-day Saint LGBTQ individuals and those who love them”. The conference is on Sept 15th and 16th, 2023 at Utah Valley Convention Center, Provo, Utah. Allison and Ben talk about why they (and others) decided to do the conference, who is invited, goals, logistics, speakers, and their personal hopes for the conference. I was deeply moved listening to Allison and Ben as they shared some of their story and the hopes for this conference. I encourage everyone to attend this conference and invite others. It will help you. And help all of us better create Zion. Podcast Links: Gather: https://gather-conference.com/ Lift and Love: https://www.liftandlove.org/ Questions From The Closet: https://questionsfromthecloset.com/ Ben Schilaty’s Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08PNM4GFC
My friend Mary Alice Hatch (married mother of 2) joins us from her home in San Clemente, California to share her story. Mary Alice talks about her son coming home from his mission early after receiving personal revelation it was the right thing to do. She talks about her support of her son and honoring his personal revelation and the need for our culture to do the same. This experience of seeing first-hand how the culture can be damaging for some Latter-day Saints, inspired Mary Alice to start a podcast call “What Now” which focused on how to improve the experience for Latter-day Saints. It is a powerful and needed podcast in our community. Mary Alice also talks about what her Relief Society Presidency is doing to create a safe culture for members to feel safe opening up about the realities of their lives so we can better heal and support others. She talks about how “people don’t connect to perfection but to vulnerability”. Mary Alice offers ideas on what we can do in our circle of influence to improve our culture. Thank you, Mary Alice, for being on the podcast and your great work in our community. I encourage everyone to check out Mary Allice’s podcast. Podcast links: What Now Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-now/id1474476293 Mary Alice Instagram: @podcastwhatnow Elder Holland’s Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iEjWlwoi7A Richard Ostler’s chapter on supporting early release missionaries: https://www.dropbox.com/s/14w6jnbyia6e7dc/Chapter%208%20Variations%20in%20Missionary%20Service.pdf?dl=0
My friends Hunter Steele (Age 24, BYU Journalism Major, Kennewick Washington RM) and his mother Amie Steele (married mother of three) join us to share their story. Hunter starts with his story growing up in Nephi, Utah (student body president of his high school) trying to reconcile his sexual orientation in a very heteronormative environment. Hunter talks about his mission (good experience) and then returning home realizing he was still attracted to men. Hunter talks about doing all things “with God” in his journey which led him to come out to his therapist and parents (both good experiences). Hunter then talks about why he came out publicly. This is a powerful—Spirit led—story. Amie shares her story of Hunter coming out to her (she didn’t ever suspect he was gay) and he journey to love and support Hunter. She talks about relying to Christ, prayer ,and scripture study to navigate this road. They share coming out to extended family and friends and the support and love they are receiving. This is one of the finest podcasts we’ve done—especially to have both a parent and her son who is gay jointly sharing their story. I was deeply moved listening to Hunter and Amie and believe their story will help you. I encourage you to listen to this podcast and share it with others. Their story will help so many. Thank you, Hunter and Amie, for sharing your story! Podcast links: Hunter’s coming out post: https://www.instagram.com/p/CkWe6RxyV_l/ Hunter’s Instagram reel with his journal entry: https://www.instagram.com/p/CotP2HNj33w/Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jared Jones (married father of 4) joins us from his home near Boston to share their family story. Jared starts with their family story with both spouses having successful careers (Jared has MBA and business career, his wife is an anesthesiologist) and then Jared’s deep impression to become a stay-at-home dad. Jared talks about that road and how Latter-day Saint culture can better support all family types. Jared then talks about their autistic son—giving us insights into the realities of raising a autistic child and how we can improve their experience, and the experience of others with disabilities at church. Jared then talks about their oldest son—who is transgender. Jared talks about how supporting that son with this transitioning has helped his going from being suicidal to having hope. It’s a beautiful family love story. Thank you, Jared, for sharing your story. I was deeply moved. Hearing your story invites us all to consider what we can do as Latter-day Saints to better support all families—not just those that neatly fit the culture mold/expectations.
My friend Mitchell Harris (any/all) joins us to share their story as a pansexual non-binary Latter-day Saint. Mitchell is a committed Latter-day Saint, served a mission in Mexico City, and is a Math Education major at BYU. Mitchell talks about their early experience and realizing they are queer and their decision to come out in 2019. Mitchell talks about Transmedicalism (something new to me) and how some non-binary/trans people (like Mitchell) do not experience long-term gender dysphoria—yet are trans/non-binary. Mitchell also talks about Church doctrines that help them maintain faith in Christ and why they are a member of the Church. I learned so much from Mitchell. They helped me consider the things I can do in my circle of influence to improve the experience of queer members. The “Body of Christ” is strengthened by having people like Mitchell in it and their contributions. Thank you, Mitchell, for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. You can find Mitchell on Twitter at @mormonpan
My friend Katherine Herrmann (divorced, father of 7) joins us to talk about her newly published book called “TransLucent: How I put off my natural man and found a spiritual woman” which is focused on her life experiences as an active Latter-day Saint. In the podcast, Katherine shares how she was compelled to write the book and why it’s important. The book explores a twofold journey of understanding her gender identity as a woman, but also as a daughter of God. Learning to overcome her natural man through social and medical transition, but more importantly with obedience, trusting God, following spiritual promptings, and always staying on the covenant path.The book covers her early years, marriage, family, and divorce. A mixture of experiences with Priesthood leadership. Her years giving hugs at General Conference. How she came to bear her testimony in over 40 wards in 3 years. Getting involved in BYU Women’s Conference and as a volunteer for Time Out For Women. Entering the LDS Singles scene attempting to find love again at church dances and firesides. And the riveting conclusion of when she miraculously did.I encourage listeners to listen to Katherine’s story. I was deeply moved listening to Katherine—it’s a story that helps us better support each other and extend the stakes of Zion.Thank you, Katherine, for being on the podcast. Your work is so needed in our community.Podcast Links:Apple Books: https://books.apple.com/us/book/id6445496533Amazon Kindle & Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSW8S76XTranslucent Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089654260941E-Mail: translucent@andhalfatime.com
My friend Madi Davis (Age 19, BYU Student, Pre-Business) courageously shares her journey with pornography use that started at age 13. Madi (who is the first woman on our podcast talking about her own porn use) shares about how this came into her life and the immense shame she encountered, which was further magnified as this is framed as a male problem. She shares feeling as though she is the only one, and finally bravely talking to her Bishop and feeling the power of the atonement in her life. Madi talks about powerful principles and concepts that have helped her understand and solve her porn use—a framework that is much more effective than we have used in the past. Madi also talks about why she is talking about this, how she hopes her future husband will respond, and what she wishes her younger self understood. Madi is brave—bringing this important subject into the light where we can talk about it and work together to solve it. If you are a parent, local leader or working to solve porn use, Madi’s podcast will help you. This is one of the very best podcasts we've done on this subject. Thank you Madi for being on the podcast. You are brave. You are a warrior. Your work is so needed. You are helping so many. Podcast Links: Madi's Email: sistersonthefrontlines@gmail.com Madi’s podcast: https://rss.com/podcasts/sistersonthefrontlines/?listen-on=true Madi’s IG account https://www.instagram.com/sistersonthefrontlines/ Richard Ostler Liahona Article: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use?lang=engRichard Ostler Chapter on Solving Porn Use: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2ex40l4se85wku/Chapter%204%20Ending%20Pornography%20Use.%20%20Listen%20Learn%20and%20Love%2C%20Improving%20Latter-day%20Saint%20Culture.pdf?dl=0 Richard Ostler Chapter on Repentance: https://www.dropbox.com/s/beou6wikby3rox0/Chapter%205%20Hope-Filled%20Repentance.%20%20%20Listen%20Learn%20and%20Love%2C%20Improving%20Lattter-day%20Saint%20Culture.pdf?dl=0
My friend Paul Reeve (active Latter-day Saint, Simmons Chair of Mormon Studies at University of Utah, author, married father of six) joins us to talk about his new book (published by Deseret Book) called “Let’s Talk about Race and Priesthood.” This book (forward written by Darius A. Gray) shares the historical facts and personal stories around this important topic. Paul has divided the book into three sections: Phase One: Universal Priesthood and TemplesPhase Two: Segregated Priesthood and TemplesPhase Three: A Return to Racial Inclusivity Paul talks about why this book is needed, how racism still is a challenge in our Church, how understanding our history—even the difficult chapters—is essential to healing and coming together to create Zion. In addition to the historical facts, Paul humanizes this topic by sharing stories of black Latter-day Saints impacted by priesthood and temple restrictions. I believe it is the responsibility of Latter-day Saints to know our history. I encourage all of us to read Paul’s book and reflect on what we can do in our circle to better support black Latter-day Saints and root our racism—following the charge extended by President Nelson. Deseret Book writes about this series of books: “Each is written by a trusted, faithful scholar who thoroughly explains the topic including key issues to consider. Designed for people who have sincere questions and are seeking answers, the series provides access to some of the best thinking in the Church.” Thank you for Paul for your life work to help us understand this issue—and bring to light the heroic and often painful stories of black Latter-day Saints. Podcast Links: Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/let-s-talk-about-race-and-priesthood Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1639931198 Black Latter-day Saint database: www.CenturyOfBlackMormons.org Paul Reeve bio: https://faculty.utah.edu/u0033169-W._PAUL_REEVE/hm/index.hml
Dr. Melissa Inouye, someone I deeply admire and respect, joins us to talk about a new book she and Kate Holbook (who died in August 2022) edited called “Every Needful Thing: Essays on the Life of the Mind and the Heart.” The book is a collection of twenty-two essays from accomplished academic and professional Latter-day Saint women. Melissa talks about why she and Kate decided to create this book, why this book is needed, and who is the audience. Melissa talks about gospel principles of belonging, learning, extending the stakes of Zion, and the systematic societal imbalances that work against us hearing and valuing women’s stories. The book is published by Deseret Book and BYU Maxwell Institute. Melissa also talks about how the School of the Prophets is a living framework for the restoration and how D&C 88 is bases for this book. Melissa also shares some of her personal story from a feeling in High School of being drawn to academia—and how that became a reality of her life—a story that gives perspective and hope to others starting their journey. Melissa also talks directly to those working to stay in the Church who have honest concerns about historical and/or current issues. This was a powerful part of the podcast. I encourage all Latter-day Saints to listen to this podcast and read this book. It helps us create Zion. Thank you, Melissa, Kate, and all the Latter-day Saint women, involved in the book and all your combined efforts throughout our Church. Your work is needed and appreciated. Podcast Links Kate Holbrook’s obituary: https://www.larkinmortuary.com/obituary/view/kate-holbrook--94/ Book Links:Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/every-needful-thingAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1639931260 Crossings: A Bald Asian American Latter-day Saint Woman Scholar's Ventures Through Life, Death, Cancer, and Motherhood: https://www.amazon.com//dp/194439480X
My friend Taylor Smith (married father of 5, active LDS, born in Canada, lives in Maryland) joins us to share an extended version of a talk he gave in Church back in September 2022 about his journey to better see, mourn and support those in our Church who may have a harder road to walk (women, black members, LGBTQ members, those with honest questions, etc). Taylor talks about how in recent years he has experienced a paradigm shift that has allowed him to more genuinely love and support these individuals—amongst some wrestling’s of his own—while he stays a committed Latter-day Saint. Taylor shares quotes from church leaders, scriptures, and gospel principles about how we can better create Zion—and move from saying theoretically that there is a place for everyone in the church, towards actually creating that place in reality. He becomes emotional at times when he shares some of his experiences of listening and sitting with the pain of those walking a harder road. It is hard to put into a podcast description the power for Taylor’s message. All I can say is, if you are working through a faith crisis, looking to create more space in our congregations, looking to create Zion, or looking to better support marginalized Latter-day Saints, please listen to Taylor’s powerful talk. I was deeply moved. Thank you, Taylor and your wife Judy, for all the good you are both doing in our church community. Thank you for your willingness to be vulnerable and helping to better love, understand and support others. You are making a difference. If you would like to contact Taylor, his e-mail address is tayandjudysmith@gmail.com Podcast Links:Taylor’s talk via DropBox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s89wap1atvfyfox/Taylor%20Smith%20LL%26L%20Podcast%20-%202.25.23.pdf?dl=0
I asked my friends at HXP (formerly HEFY) to come on the podcast and introduce this non-profit providing Latter-day Saint youth trips around the world. We joined by: Amy Antonelli: CEOKelsi Christensen: Chief Innovations OfficerHannes Du Randt: Program Designer/Trip Leader The HXP teams introduces HXP, its worldwide trips (288 scheduled for the Summer of 2023; almost all full), the needs for parent builders, its goals and hopes. The team goes on to talk about the hopes to positively impact youth (95% are Latter-day Saint Youth and all Trip Leaders are active Latter-day Saints) to feel God’s love for them and other people around the world—as the engage in sustainable and impactful humanitarian projects. They talk about sign up for 2024 trips (enrollment opens in early November 2023). Each HXP members share some of their story including Amy finding worth/value/perspective as a single Latter-day Saints, Kelsi serving a mission in Brazil, a people she loved, and connecting with the Japanese people she hoped to serve, and Hannes (a dear family friend) his conversion story (that happened in the same room we record podcasts). If you are an LDS parent looking for a uniquely positive experience for your youth (ages 14-16 for domestic trips; 16-19 for international trips), please check out this podcast and HXP. And if you are looking to build your faith by hearing others experiences, Amy, Kelsi and Hannes will inspire you. Thank you, Amy, Kelsi, Hannes and everyone at HXP for your much needed work in our world. Links mentioned: HXP: https://www.humanitarianxp.org/ Hannes’ Conversation Story (Episode 7): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-7-hannes-du-randt-mormon-conversation-story
My friend (and former YSA) joins us to bravely talk about the pain and trauma experienced as a nanny in Germany. Emily later returned to Germany and served in the same area—and had a chance encounter with those responsible for her pain/trauma and talks about feelings of God’s love for them. However, feeling God’s love for them and forgiveness, didn’t fully resolve the trauma as Emily was still rejecting herself. Emily bravely shares her journey to see, address, and solve trauma. It’s a remarkable story. A story that will help others working to solve trauma and those wanting to help them. Thank you, Emily, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I wish I had understood the principles and concepts you shared much earlier. Thank you your courage to be on the podcast. You are awesome! Links mentioned in the podcast: Emily Coaching Business: www.growwithzoella.com
My friend Geri Broadbent joins us to share the story of her husband Dan who died at age 43 after an 6-year battle cancer. Geri talks about the years (some during COVID) of his cancer treatments and his passing in December of 2021. She talks about the things she did to find hope and support during his battle and after his passing. She talks about the courage of her husband Dad and how she found to best support him. She talks about things family and friends did that were helpful—and how we can do better. She talks about life after Dan including Church (Geri in an active Latter-day Saint), therapy, finding hope and healing, and supporting her four children. If you have lost your spouse or a loved one—or are looking to better support someone walking this road, I encourage you to listen to Geri’s story. She is vulnerable, brave, real, insightful—with unique insights to find hope and healing. Thank you, Geri, for being on the podcast. You did a great job of honoring your good husband Dan and bringing more understanding for support people dealing with the death of a loved one. You voice is so needed in our community. Links mentioned in the podcast: Geri’s Instagram Account: https://www.instagram.com/dan_beats_cancer/ Dan’s obituary: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/name/daniel-broadbent-obituary?id=31800935
My friend Bonnie Young (active Latter-day Saint, LMFT, married mother of two) joins us to talk about her groundbreaking new book, "Sex Educated: Letters from a Latter-day Saint Therapist to Her Younger Self." While Bonnie wrote this book mainly for Latter-day Saint women who desire to maturely and compassionately reflect on their own sexual journeys, it can also be used as a tool and resource for parents, Latter-day Saint couples, fathers of daughters, and for younger Latter-day Saints who are searching for faith-based and research-backed sexual education. Each chapter of the book is a letter that Bonnie writes to her younger self, and each letter has a different focus. The contents of the letters explore the importance of learning about sex, the goodness of sex, consent, modesty and maturation, the centrality of women's sexual development and experiences, healing from sexual shame, and more. I was deeply moved listening to Bonnie’s insights about the important and sensitive topic— I wish I had a book like this during my growing up years. I encourage listeners to check out Bonnie’s book. When we know better, we do better. Thank you, Bonnie, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our community. Links mentioned: Bonnie’s book: https://a.co/d/eAX5Loj Bonnie Young Counseling: www.bonnieyoungcounseling.com Azure Counseling: https://www.azurecounseling.com/
My friend Emma Edwins (Masters Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy; Licensed Clinical Counselor, who was on Episode 598) joins us to update her story. Emma, a convert and active Latter-day Saint, shares answers to questions she is receiving. Emma talks about a thoughtful and balanced approach to supporting others who experience gender dysphoria and are considering transitioning. Emma also talks about making this conversation about listening, understanding and being open to learning—and not fear based narratives. If you are looking to better understand and support transgender Latter-day Saints, Emma’s story will help you. And if you have feelings of gender dysphoria, Emma’s insights will help you. Thank you, Emma, for being on the podcast. You are a remarkable woman doing much good in many circles. You are helping us create Zion. Honored to have you on the podcast! Podcast links: Emma’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMcGpe-zLbY Emma’s email: storiesoflatterdayfaith@gmail.com Emma’s other podcast (Episode 598): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-598-emma-edwins-convert-transgender-latter/id1347971725?i=1000591219814 Richard Ostler solo podcast on this topic (Episode 601): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-601-conversation-with-my-trans-friends-and/id1347971725?i=1000591977601 Church transgender web site: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender
My friend Jacob Guy, (RM, FSY Counselor, Weber State Student) joins us to share his story. Jacob talks about his spiritual journey and temple attendance to come out to himself and others about 18 months ago. That included breaking off a serious relationship with a woman. Jacob shares a powerful visual analogy of being locked out of the house of happy married straight people and not having a key to open the door—one of the most powerful examples I’ve heard. Jacob talks about his rock-solid relationship with Jesus and how He is helping him find hope and peace concurrently with the unknowns of his future. Jacob reads from his from his scriptures to share some of his favorite stories of Jesus and the principles Jesus teaching that apply to all of our lives. I was deeply moved hearing Jacob’s courageous, no-shame, spiritually mature story—including deep peace and acceptance of his sexual orientation. If you are in the process of coming out (even to yourself), Jacob’s story will help you. If you are out, I believe Jacob’s story will help you. And if you are looking to better understand and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, Jacob’s story will help you. Thank you for being on the podcast Jacob. You are a good man. Links mentioned in the podcast: Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Richard Ostler Book: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Trigger Warning: Sexual Assault My friend Sherry Cassel bravely shares her story of being a survivor of sexual assault (from infancy until after her mission) and ongoing verbal and physical assault well into adulthood. Further, Sherry talks about how she became sexually active after her mission (partly because it was the only way she had been programed to feel loved) and having three children out of wedlock from three different men. Sherry talks about her love for these wonderful children. Sherry talks about being diagnosed with Complex PTSD and her road to dealing, accepting, and working to solve her mental health issues resulting from long-term trauma. Sherry talks about the beautiful relationship she has with her children (two with temple marriages and the third a member of the LGBTQ+ community who is navigating well in life through their own mental illness journey). She also talks about her patriarchal blessing and the importance of that blessing into her eternal destiny and also finding peace that some of her mortal dreams will not happen. If you are a survivor of past/current abuse, Sherry’s powerful podcast will help you. And if you are looking for better support and understand abuse survivors, Sherry’s insights will help you. And if you are just looking for a story or courage, faith and forgiveness, Sherry’s story will inspire you. Thank you, Sherry, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You are brave. You are free from shame. You are one of my new heroes. Your story will help so many!Links mentioned in the podcast: Sherry’s Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/momto4xo Richard Ostler Repentance Chapter: https://www.dropbox.com/s/beou6wikby3rox0/Chapter%205%20Hope-Filled%20Repentance.%20%20%20Listen%20Learn%20and%20Love%2C%20Improving%20Lattter-day%20Saint%20Culture.pdf?dl=0 Elder Kearon General Conference Talk:https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2022/04/24kearon Steve Young’s Book:https://www.amazon.com/dp/1639930310
My friend Bonnie Lyman (active LDS, life coach, lives in Spokane, two of five children not participating in the Church) joins us to share her story. Bonnie (who is her 70’s and has been on this road for more than two decades) shares her story of finding peace and hope—and love for all her family. Bonnie has powerful gospel insights to find joy, peace, love for all her kids and how her dreams for her eternal family have not changed. I was deeply moved by Bonnie and her maturity to deal with the complexities of life and still find peace, love and hope. She is in a remarkable place of peace—and her story will help all of us find the same. If you have people you love choosing different paths, I invite you to listen to this podcast and connect with Bonnie and her work. Thank you, Bonnie, for being on the podcast. I was deeply moved hearing your story. You voice and work in so needed in our community! Links mentioned in the podcast: Bonnie’s life coach web site: https://www.bonnielyman.com/ Facebook Group for LDS Parents with children on different paths: https://www.facebook.com/groups/BridgesLDSParents Liahona Article: You Love, He Saves:https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/07/you-love-he-saves
My friend Kali Olsen (RM, BYU-I student, married to a man) shares her story as a bisexual Latter-day Saint. Kali talks about her journey to understand and then accept her sexual orientation. Kali also shares coming out to her fiancé McKay and his support (they were married in April 2022). Kali goes on to discuss why she decided to come out more broadly on social media to help support other LGBTQ people. Kali then talks about how we can do better as Latter-day Saints to support our LGBTQ members and create a safe space for people of all political parties. If you are an LGBTQ Latter-day Saint or want to know how to support them better, I encourage you to listen to Kali’s podcast. Great job Kali! Your story will help so many. Thank you for your courage to be on the podcast. Links mentioned in the podcast: Kali’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kali.crawford.7/ Kali’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kali.j.olsen/Kali’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/kalic_justine
My friend Chris Kimball (married father of three, grandfather of eleven, and as he says, a 'retired' bishop, a 'retired' professor, and a 'retired' lawyer) joins us to share his unique Latter-day Saint journey. Chris shares some of his personal story which includes deciding more than 25 years ago to no longer sit for worthiness interviews and as a result to not hold a temple recommend, and nevertheless stay a participating member of the Church. Chris shares why he doesn’t hold a recommend and some of how he stays in the Church. The long journey has led to Chris writing a book called “Living on the Inside of the Edge: A Survival Guide”. The purpose of the book is to help other Latter-day Saints in a faith transition/faith crisis who have a goal to stay in the Church. The book would also be helpful for local leaders and parents who are looking for new tools/perspectives to help those in a faith crisis/transition who are working to find an authentic way to stay in the Church. That said, Chris informs listeners the book is not agenda based, not arguing for staying nor arguing for leaving, but supportive of people in their individual journeys. I was deeply moved listening to Chris and his long view of being on this road. I believe this podcast and his book will help you if you are in a faith transition or if you want to better understand and support those walking this road. Thank you, Chris, for your much needed work in our community. I hope your book is read far and wide!Links mentioned in the podcast:Chris’s book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/194821878XWaters of Mormon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/366835446735927
My friend Zach and Darcy Spafford (who were on Episode 376) join us to talk about solving pornography use as a couple. Zach talks about opening up to his wife about his pornography use and how they worked together to address and solve it. It is a powerful story that helps others walking this road find hope and healing. Both Zach and Darcy share insights, principles, and strategies to address, and solve porn use and thrive as a couple. Zach and Darcy now help other couples who are struggling with unwanted porn as their full-time business—which is much needed in our community. I encourage everyone working to solve porn use or wanting to help others, to listen to this podcast. I learned so much from Zach and Darcy and their experience. Thank you, Zach and Darcy, for your courage to be in this space to help others. You are making a difference for good in our community. Links mentioned in the podcast: Podcast: Thrive Beyond Pornography https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thrive-beyond-pornography-formerly-the-self-mastery/id1482319107Website: www.zachspafford.com E-mail: zach@zachspafford.com, darcy@zachspafford.comMy Ensign article on this subject: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use
My friend Will Edgel (who was on Episode 78 recorded nearly four years ago) joins us to update listeners on his life journey and his professional work as a gay man’s wellness coach. Will talks about having a boyfriend and also being an active Latter-day Saint and how he is navigating this road. Will then talks about his professional work as a wellness coach to release shame and help individuals move forward in their lives in a healthy and balanced way. Will shares many excellent insights that I believe helps our listeners. Concepts like: “life is much better on the other side of shame”, “differences between decisions and choices”, and finding worth and peace through “self validation”. If you are a queer Latter-day Saint, I believe the principles and perspective Will shares will help you. And if you are looking for community and wellness resources, you might check out willedgel.com Thank you will for being on the podcast and your good work to bring hope and healing. Your voice and work is needed Links mentioned in the podcast: www.willedgel.com Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Susan Siddoway (active LDS, married, mother of 6 and grandmother to 13) shared story of her daughter Holly who left the church, identified as bisexual, struggled with addiction, was single and pregnant and died at age 33 in 2019. Susan shares gospel principles, doctrinal insights and church leader statements that strengthened her love and support for her daughter. She talks of the light and knowledge that came to her about Holly’s journey here on earth, how she was so much more than someone who left the church and had addictions. She saw Holly as a beloved child of Heavenly Parents, who was serving and helping others. Susan tells of the many people who lined up to speak to her after Holly’s funeral services, telling about the light she had been to them and how she blessed their lives. She speaks of the heartbreaking decision Holly made to place her baby for adoption. Her strong feeling that a gay couple should adopt. The wonderful relationship Susan and her family have with these two wonderful married women who adopted their granddaughter. It is a beautiful family love story. If you are looking for peace and hope because your children have left the church, Susan’s story will help you. She has been on this road for 15 years and has the long-view to bring you hope, peace, perspective and to not feel like you are a failure as an LDS parent. I was deeply touched listening to Susan share her story. I believe you will be too. Thank you Susan for being on the podcast. You are brave. Your story will help many. Links:Holly’s Obituary:https://www.wheelermortuaries.com/obituary/Holly-Siddoway Facebook Group of LDS Parent with Children No Longer Attending:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1139458306236720
My friend Zach Davis (married father of three, graduate of BYU and Harvard Divinity School) joins us to talk about Wayfare—a new magazine launched by Faith Matters in late 2022. Zach talks about the purpose of and vision for the magazine and how it is a community effort and how individuals can get involved in producing content for Wayfare. Zach also talks about Faith Matters—its purpose and vision and plans for second Restore in October of 2023 (Zach shares the actual dates and location in the podcast). Zach also shares some of his personal story to find his career path and principles and perspectives to help others make their way forward. I was deeply moved hearing more of Zach’s story. Thank you, Zach, for being on the podcast. Your personal story and work at Faith Matters is blessing many. And thank you to everyone involved at Faith Matters for your much needed work in our community. Links mentioned: Wayfare Magazine: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/Faith Matters: https://faithmatters.org/
My friend Tammy Hill (Adjunct Faculty BYU, LMFT, Noted Speaker and Author, married mother of 12 in a blended family with her husband Jeff) joins us to talk about her groundbreaking new book for Latter-day Saints called “Replenish: Creating Sexual Fulfillment in Marriage, A Guide for LDS Couples”. In the podcast Tammy talks about how the book “is the answer for anyone who has been frustrated by information that is either too vague, too academic, too spiritual, or too pornographic. Providing accurate information and practical application—all within a gospel framework—the book is the perfect guide for couples who desire a fulfilling sexual relationship that replenishes them with the joy, unity, and oneness that love Heavenly Parents intended.” In the podcast Tammy vulnerably shares some of her own story, why she decided to write the book, what she hopes it will accomplish, and who should read the book. I had several ‘light-bulb’ moments as I heard Tammy’s concepts to bring a more positive and proactive framework into sexual intimacy. I encourage everyone (both single and married) to listen to the podcast and check out Tammy’s book. It will help you and, if you are a parent, give you better skills to teach your children about sex. Thank you, Tammy, for being on the podcast and your good work! Podcast Links: Tammy Hills Web Site: https://www.tammyhill.com/ (you can purchase the book here) Amazon Link for Book Purchase: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1611661781 (Tammy encourages you to rate/review) Instagram: @tammy_hill_lmft
My friend Valerie Barton (active Latter-day Saint, in her 40s, married for 6 years) bravely shares her story believing her worth and purpose were in being married and having children—and having neither happen for nearly two decades. Valerie talks about things being typical and normal though her youth—but then things becoming more difficult during her 20s as she tried to move forward not being married. She talks about decided to attend college, receive her endowment and serving a mission—but still struggling with her purpose and value as a single Latter-day Saint and why our can create this in women. Valerie bravely shares the pain of being on her road—in a Church focused on the nuclear family. Valerie shares how she shifted her worth to be on things in her control—to being a daughter of Heavenly Parents and empowerment to chart her own course. If you are a single Latter-day or working to better support single Latter-day Saints, Valerie story and insights will help you. I wish I had heard the things Valerie teaches before my YSA assignment Valerie also talks about personal revelation to not accept an engagement proposal in her 30’s—even though she wanted to be married sharing insights from Moses 3:17. Valerie then talks about finding her soulmate Dennis and being married at 39 and 37, respectively. Valerie then shifts and talks about the challenges of not being able to have children including 5 miscarriages and then a disrupted adoption. Valerie shares things that were helpful and not helpful during these difficult and painful experiences. Valerie and Dennis were able to adopt and have a 3-year-old daughter. If you are “always waiting” to feel complete (either later in this life or the next life), Valerie’s story will help you to feel complete now. This is was one of the most helpful stories I’ve heard for those that are single and without children to find peace, hope and value today. And if you are looking to find more peace in your life or have more tools to help others, Valerie’s story will help you. Thank you for being on the podcast Valerie. You are very brave. On behalf of all our listeners, thank you for being you! You are awesome and your story will help so many!
My friend Carol Lynn Pearson joins us to talk about the subject of love in five of the books she has written. These books are:Good-bye, I Love You (1986)No More Goodbyes (2007)I’ll Walk with You (2020)Finding Mother God (2020)The Love Map (2022)To order personally autographed copies of these books or see a complete list of Carol Lynn’s work, please visit: https://carollynnpearson.com/The first two groundbreaking books are about how to better love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. In the first book, Carol Lynn talks about loving and supporting her husband Gerald who died of AIDS in 1984. In the second book, Carol Lynn shares stories of LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. I read both books many years ago which were key for me to learn how to better support my LGBTQ friends.Carol Lynn also talks about the other three important books. I was deeply moved learning about these books, including the important role of Heavenly Mother in our lives. All of Carol Lynn life work is focused on the teachings of Jesus to bring us together in love and support as the same human family. I encourage everyone to listen this podcast and connect with her work.On behalf of all our listeners, thank you Carol Lynn for your life work. Honored to have you on the podcast.Links mentioned in the podcast:Carol Lynn Pearson Website: https://carollynnpearson.com/Faith Matters Podcast Finding Mother God: https://faithmatters.org/finding-mother-god-carol-lynn-pearson/Faith Matters Podcast The Love Map: https://faithmatters.org/the-love-map-a-conversation-with-carol-lynn-pearson/Carol Lynn’s Talk ($50 for all talks) at Faith Matters Retore on Restoring of Mother Tongue: https://faithmatters.thinkific.com/courses/restore
This is a solo podcast where I talk about why someone feels transgender, how to understand and best support them, and church resources. I also talk to those who experience gender dysphonia and principles for making thoughtful and informed decisions. My hope and prayer is this episode will bring more support to and understanding of our transgender friends—and better bring us together as the same human family. Links mentioned in the podcast:Church’s web site: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/transgender Deseret New Article: https://www.deseret.com/faith/2022/4/27/23034223/latter-day-saint-leaders-lgbt-advocates-common-ground-washington-dc-temple-faith-religious-liberty Listen Learn and Love Transgender Podcast List: https://listenlearnandlove.org/transgender-and-more-podcasts Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: Deseret Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints and Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143 Questions from the Closet Episode on Gender Dysphoria: https://questionsfromthecloset.com/episode/?s=3&e=17
My friend Josh Yordy joins us to bravely share his story. Josh talks about how mental health challenges ended his mission early and the positive support he received from his mission therapist, mission leaders, parents, and leaders back home in Flagstaff, Arizona. If you have returned home early or are supporting someone walking this road, Josh’s story will help you. Once home, Josh decided to address his sexual orientation, which he had avoided his whole life prior. Part of his journey was serving in the Los Angeles temple for six months in early 2022. Working with a therapist, being in the Temple, and a personal relationship with Heavenly Father helped Josh to accept being queer/bi-sexual in a positive, healthy, and authentic way. Josh talks about how he is navigating his road with both a testimony and being a queer Latter-day Saint. Josh is coming from a place of peace, confidence, faith, and hope—instead of shame and fear. I was deeply moved listening to the spiritual maturity of this 20-year-old man. If you are a queer Latter-day Saint looking for a steady voice of hope, please listen to this podcast. I believe it will help you. And if you are looking to better support queer Latter-day Saints, Josh’s insights and experiences will help. Thank you, Josh, for being you. Thank you for your courage to share you story which will help so many. You make this world a better place. Links mentioned in the podcast: Josh’s Instagram @jdyofficial Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Sara Brewer, certified life coach, shares powerful insights to end porn use. Sara talks about the “roots” of porn use and a framework to address these roots in a hopeful and positive way to end porn use. I became aware of Sara after several mentioned to me how Sara helped them end porn use (including Koji Aoki who told his story on episode 544). Sara is part of a growing group of experts in this field who are bring a completely new paradigm to understand and solve porn use. I wish I had known the things Sara teaches before my YSA assignment—it would have given me more tools to help others. If you are looking to end porn use or help others, please listen to this podcast, and connect with Sara work (see links below). Thank you, Sara, for being on the podcast and your great work in our community. Links mentioned in the podcast: Sara’s web site: https://www.sarabrewer.com/ Sara’s Instagram: @sarabrewercoachingCheck out my new book that has a chapter (chapter 4) about solving pornography: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Emma Edwins (Masters Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy; Licensed Clinical Counselor) shares her remarkable story. Emma starts with her decision to join the Church while in college in Colorado. Emma then talks about why she left the church (for about ten years) and then talks about addressing her gender dysphoria—which led Emma to legally, socially, and medically transition to a woman. Emma talks about how much happier she is since transitioning—and how she longed to return to the Church. Emma, who lives in St. Paul Minneapolis, talks about her decision to go back to Church and the warm welcome she is receiving from her Ward, including attending Relief Society. Emma talks about why she decided to go back to Church and her testimony of our restored doctrine. Emma also talks about the challenges transgender Latter-day Saints face—including her desire to attend the temple, which is currently not possible. Emma has a You Tube channel called Stories of Latter-day Faith (see link below) which features conversion stories of people joining the Church. Please reach out to Emma if you’d like to share your conversion story. Thank you, Emma, for being on the podcast. You are a remarkable woman doing much good in many circles. Honored to have you on the podcast! You Tube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMcGpe-zLbY Email address is: storiesoflatterdayfaith@gmail.comInstagram: @the_mindful_mormon Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Jay Griffith (married father of 3) joins us to share his story of why he stays a Latter-day Saint, how he manages the complexity of being in the church, and why he loves/supports/respects his family and friends who are no longer Latter-day Saints, and lives without fear for their salvation. Jay also briefly talks about his monthly gathering, ThinkAgain-FaithAgain (begun nearly 10 years ago), and his association with Faith Matters. Jay is one of the most spiritual and thoughtful people I know. Jay’s insights and life story give all of us ideas about how to see each other as God sees us. Thank you, Jay, for being on the podcast. Honored to call you friend. Links mentioned in the podcast: ThinkAgain-FaithAgain: https://www.thinkagain-faithagain.life/ Faith Matters: https://faithmatters.org/ Jay welcomes direct contact with any who have questions or would just like to be listened to and walked with. You can reach him at jaygriffith4@gmail.com Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Alicia Hall (lives in Georgia, with husband & five children) joins us to share how she is using gospel principals and parenting skills to walk with and support her 17-year-old lesbian daughter McKenna (who came out at age 15). Alicia focuses on what we can do as parents to operate from a position of trust, love, acceptance—instead of a position fear, shame and looking backward in self-doubt. All this helping us as parents be in a better position to love and support an LGBTQ child. If you are a parent with a LGBTQ child—or want to be prepared to parent a LGBTQ child—please listen to this podcast. It is one of the very best we’ve done as Alicia combines her experience as a parent, life coach, and the gospel insights. Thank you, Alicia, for being on the podcast. I learned so much. Your voice and work are so need in our community.You can find Alicia on Facebook at @aliciahallcoaching or Instagram at @alliciahallcoaching Links mentioned in the podcast: Alicia’s web site: https://aliciahallcoaching.com/ Directory of LDS Life Coaches: https://ldslifecoaches.com/ Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Autumn McAlpin (married mother of 5) shares the story of her 17-year-old son, Gavin, walking into her bedroom at 3:00 am telling her and her husband and he that “he is gay, leaving the church, and really struggling with depression… like, really.” A lot has happened since that night two and a half years ago—which Autumn shares on the podcast and in her new book to support Gavin. It is a beautiful and powerful family love story. Autumn, a noted author and filmmaker, decided to write a book about their experience. In November 2022, that book, But Jesus: A Conversation, was published by Pink Umbrella Books with Gavin’s permission (see below for Amazon book link). Autumn talks about the book in the podcast, and all proceeds from sales will be donated to life-saving therapy programs for LGBTQ+ at Encircle and Flourish Therapy. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and read Autumn’s book. I have read it—it is a powerful family story of how we can do better so support families with LGBTQ members. I wish I had read a book like this decades ago. Autumn is also involved with Lift & Love, where she writes most of the IG family profile stories (link below). I encourage you to check out Lift & Love. Thank you for being on the podcast Autumn. I was deeply moved hearing your story. I encourage everyone to read Autumn’s impactful book. Links: Autumn’s book called “But Jesus: A Conversation”: https://www.amazon.com/But-Jesus-Conversation-Autumn-McAlpin/dp/194959825X Lift and Love: https://www.liftandlove.org/
In this episode, my friend Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife (Ph.D. in Counseling Psychology, active LDS) joins us to share details of her professional journey. She tells us more about her time at BYU and how she shifted from following cultural expectations to following her heart and talents, which led to her earning her Master’s Degree, followed by a Ph.D., and eventually, opening her own practice. She shares how her work has grown past her original hopes and expectations and talks about why she decided to stay a Latter-day Saint. Her story is a powerful one and will inspire younger (and even older!) Latter-day Saints to pursue their passions and believe in their potential. Dr. Finlayson-Fife also shares insights about creating healthy boundaries, and how those boundaries can help us maintain a healthier relationship with the Church. She also shares ways that we can create more belonging at church—so that more will feel welcome, included, and needed as we create Zion. I was deeply moved by this conversation and appreciated Dr. Finlayson-Fife's perspective and insights on these important topics. She is someone who loves and embraces our theology and also someone with extensive professional experience as a therapist, coach, and educator. I wish I had listened to a podcast like this decades ago! Thank you, Jennifer, for being on the podcast and for the important work you do in our community—you are making a huge difference! You can learn more about Dr. Finlayson-Fife at https://www.finlayson-fife.com/
My friend Brian Paul (married, father of 4, active LDS) joins us to share the story of his older brother Boyd dying by suicide at the age of 25 in 1989. It tells a powerful story of hope and the far-reaching promises of the atonement and the power to redeem. Brian, who is about 7 years younger than Boyd, talks about his love for his brother. Boyd changed a few years after returning home from his mission when he went down a difficult road trying to reconcile his sexual orientation. Feeling rejected by God for not helping him overcome same gender attraction, difficulty in achieving ideal relationships with other gay men, being fired by his employer, and not being fully accepted and understood by family, led to Boyd taking his own life by jumping off the William Howard Taft Bridge in Feb 1989. Brian talks about his journey to understand and love his brother including a powerful spiritual experience walking on the William Howard Taft Bridge in 2014 with his daughter, that reflects the infinite power of the atonement and our hope in Christ. Brian also talks about his mother’s Stake Conference talk about her gay son and her knowledge from her Heavenly Father with these words “I have him. He is not lost.” If you have lost someone to suicide, please listen to this podcast. Brian does a wonderful job of sharing their family story—a beautiful family love story. Thank you, Brian, for being on the podcast to help us better support each other, give powerful insights into the plan of salvation, and see us all as the same human family. Link mentioned in the podcast: YouTube tribute video for Boyd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkuQ4YAYqwg Facebook Post about Boyd: https://www.facebook.com/brian.paul.7106/posts/pfbid026WVw8vuZSLpg9kGXXtF6rupsPvJJ3Pj3s7psvsRWe1ivP6BUZXxpGM7GLXSjCF1Bl Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friends Jeralee Renshaw and Peter Ryan (active Latter-day Saints) talk about a facebook group called Waters of Mormon for Latter-day Saints who need a safe place to process complicated church topics (history, current issues, or difficult experiences). Members of the group are working to stay engaged with the Church. Jeralee and Peter (two of the moderators of the group) talk about vetting criteria to be able to join the group (including being familiar with the Gospel Topic Essays), group mission, and rules of the group. They also share some of about their story navigating difficult topics and why they stay members of the Church. I joined this group in 2016 during my mini-faith crisis and it was key for me to reconstruct a sustainable framework to remain an active member of the Church. If you are working to stay in the Church and also looking for a safe place to process complicated church topics, please listen to this podcast. It will help you decide if this group would be helpful for you. And you are welcome to share this podcast with others who you feel might benefit from joining the group. Thank you, Jeralee and Peter,—and the rest of the moderation team—for your much needed work in our community. Links mentioned in the podcast: Waters of Mormon Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/366835446735927Gospel Topic Essays: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/essays
My friend Tyler Johnson (married father of 3, active LDS, Oncologist and Assistant Professor Stanford Medical School), joins us to talk about principles that can help build a long-term foundation to remain in the Church and process the complicated topics (history, prophetic infallibility, imperfect members, etc) Tyler shares his upbring where his father didn’t create a fairly-tale type narrative of our church history—but on honest discussion about the warts that are part of the beautiful restoration of the gospel. Because of this, Tyler didn’t ever have to deconstruct and then reconstruct—it has always been about construction. For Tyler (and I believe many others) this is a more sustainable framework to move forward as a Latter-day Saint. He also talks about the love present in his home that help form his feelings about his Heavenly Parents and their love for all of us. It also created a safe environment to process honest questions. Tyler shares his vision for what each of us can to in our area of influence to “Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes” (Isaiah 54:2). He talks we can follow the example of Jesus—who brought the tent of the gospel to everyone—and how we can look to do that in our areas of stewardship. You can read more about Tyler’s work and insights in this BYU article: https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/a-teachers-plea/ If you are processing the warts of the restoration or current issues—or helping others—please listen to this podcast. This is one of the very best episodes we’ve done on this subject, and I was deeply moved by Tyler insights, principles and gospel perspectives. Thank you, Tyler, for being on the podcast and all your good work in many circles to improve the lives of others!
My friend Lynn Patten (married mother of 4, active LDS, RM) shares her journey through depression that started when she was on her mission. Lynn talks about how Church became a difficult place for her, mainly because she could no longer feel the Spirit—but how she worked to continue to be an active Latter-day Saint by learning how to hear God’s voice again. Lynn shares how she connects with the Spirit in different ways and how she has found spiritual healing amidst her mental illness and wrote a book called “Hear Him: How to Hear the Spirit When You Suffer From Depression” The book is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BJC9QJWR If you are working to understand and manage mental illness, or know someone who is, please listen to Lynn’s podcast, and read her book. I believe it will help you. Thank you, Lynn, for being on the podcast and your good work in our community.
My friends Joni and Phil Broderick (parents of four) and their gay son Kyle (recent BYU graduate) join us from their home in Virginia to share their story. Kyle talks about his journey to address and resolve being gay and LDS which reached a crossroads on his mission in Africa where he decided to end his mission and return home. Kyle’s parents learned—in a jolting message—that their son was gay and coming home from his mission. Kyle talks about his experiences at BYU (some good and some difficult) and deciding to step away from the Church. Joni and Phil talk about being on the receiving side of Kyle’s message and how they navigated this new reality. They talk about their path to learn how to support Kyle and address their fears—which included reading books, listening to podcasts, and prayer. Joni talks about coming to Utah to attend a NorthStar conference and learning as she arrived in Utah that Kyle was participating in a rally at BYU regarding the honor code changes. Joni talks about her decision to make signs and then attend that rally with Kyle which was covered by the Salt Lake Tribune (link in the show notes). This was a deeply spiritual experience for her. Joni and Phil talk about their personal revelation for their family and what we can do as a church to better support LGBTQ families. This is a powerful and moving podcast. If you are parents (with or without a queer child) please listen to this podcast. If you are a local leader, please listen to this podcast. It will help you be better parents and/or local leaders. And if you are a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, I believe this will help you. Thank you, Joni, Phil and Kyle, for sharing your story. It is a beautiful family love story that will help so many! Links mentioned in the podcast: https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2020/03/06/hundreds-byu-students/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CiiE17trsfW/ https://deseretbook.com/p/love-boldly-embracing-your-lgbtq-loved-ones-and-your-faith Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Bryson Lind (early 30s, Active LDS, Single, Undergrad in Psychology, Masters in Mental Health Counseling) joins us to share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Bryson talks about the growing up years, his mission, and returning to college. Bryson talks about feeing “monstrous and dark” inside because of his feelings towards men in spite of giving everything on his mission. He talks about coming out to a Bishop and BYU-I (not a good experience) and then being suicidal and the positive/lifesaving experience coming out to his Bishop at Utah State Bryson talks about many positive experiences at BYU (community, professors, friends, and committees) and his supportive YSA leaders during his graduate work in Denver. Bryson also talks about, in a deeply moving segment, reconstructing his relationship with Heavenly Father including “the person you think I am, isn’t the person I am.” Bryson talks about his clinical work at the Marriage and Family Clinic in Spanish Fork (link in the show notes) focusing on LDS LGBTQ. Thank you, Bryson, for being on the podcast. Your story is powerful. I encourage everyone to listen. And if you are looking for a therapist, please consider reaching out to Bryson. Links mentioned in the podcast: https://www.marriageandfamilyclinicutah.com/about-1bryson@themarriageandfamilyclinic.com
My friend Al Carraway (who was on Episode 114, convert, married mother of 3) joins us to talk about her two new #1 Amazon Best Seller books called: My Dear Little One: https://www.amazon.com/My-Dear-Little-One-Carraway/dp/1462143636/ Finding Yourself in the New Testament: https://www.amazon.com/Yourself-Testament-Spiritually-Uplifting-Carraway/dp/146214361X Al shares her insights into our Heavenly Parents and Jesus and Their role in our lives to love, support, and help us. She talks about Their character and ability to bless our lives. Al talks about “More Jesus” is the path to healing and bring us together. I encourage everyone to check out this podcast and read/share Al’s new book. It will help you feel the love and support of Jesus in your life. I was deeply moved listening to Al and her fresh insights and perspectives to help all of us. Thank you Al for your wonderful and needed work in our community. You can find more about Al at www.alcarraway.com
My friend Steven Kapp Perry (host on Classical89.org and the “In Good Faith” podcast, married father of four, songwriter, and playwright) joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Steve shares being out for decades to his dear wife Johanne and then recently deciding to come out more broadly to family and close friends. Steve talks about how he has navigated painful church experiences, found his worth/stability in his relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus, and his love for his wife Johanne. Steve talks about how we can do better (within our doctrine) to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and reminds us these good members are in our ward/family circles citing a recent BYU survey where 13% of students indicated they are something “other than straight”.Steve talks about the March 2023 Tour of Israel he is directing for LGBTQ folks and their families, friends, and allies. I encourage you to check this out (see link in show notes).Thank you, Steve for being on the podcast and all you are doing to create Zion. Links mentioned in the podcast:Link to the March 2023 Tour of Israelhttps://www.mmetours.com/index.php/holy-lands/371-2023-celebrate-the-holy-land-tour-with-steven-kapp-perry-and-friendsLink to Classical 89http://www.classical89.orgLink to the In Good Faith podcasthttp://www.byuradio.org/ingoodfaithLink to "From Cumorah's Hill"https://janicekappperry.com/?action=catalog&node=skp&id=26&phpsessid=f435cfaa42cee34c5f47cad65d700f6fBYU LGBTQ Student Research/13%https://universe.byu.edu/2021/03/11/recent-survey-finds-nearly-1000-byu-student-survey-respondents-identify-as-lgbtq/Current Teachings vs Obsolete Teachings: https://meghandecker.com/resources-1/blog-post-title-one-2kxet Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Karl Beckstrand (single, active LDS writer in his mid-50s) shares his story about being exposed to gay sex at a young age and contending for years between God’s will and how he was relating with others. He learned that nothing takes God by surprise, that God can empower us to live our most fulfilling lives, and that everything can be consecrated to our joy—now and forever. Karl discovered that God won’t take our social needs away, but he can help us meet them in profound and lasting ways. This is a great resource for anyone with questions about faith and LGBTQIA topics. Karl shares more in his book called More Than 2 Paths: Biblical Secrets to Living Your Most Fulfilling LGBTQIA Life. Thank you, Karl, for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. Thanks for your courage to share it. I encourage others to listen to this episode and read your book. Karl will be signing books Saturday, Nov. 19 (2-5 p.m.) at Marissa's Books & Gifts located 3302 S. 900 E., Salt Lake City, Utah Links mentioned in the podcast: More Than 2 Paths: https://www.amazon.com/More-Than-Paths-Biblical-Fulfilling-ebook/dp/B0B5B89PTS Abundant Paths: https://www.amazon.com/Abundant-Paths-Thinking-Fulfilling-Relationships/dp/1951599187 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Suzanne Stott (mother to ten adopted children, in her 70’s, active Latter-day Saints) shares her lifelong service to marginalized groups of people (homeless, incarcerated, refugees, queer, etc) as an active Latter-day Saint. Suzanne was the Grand Marshall of the Utah Pride Parade in 2022. Suzanne talks about following her heart to reach out to those walking a more difficult road and work to improve their lives. He also talks about her testimony of our restored gospel and her prayers for changes in our Church. She talks about her has navigated multiple faith crisis over the years. If you are looking for a season and mature voice navigating complicated issues in our Church around social issues (race, women, queer), please listen to Suzanne’s story. And if you feel drawn to make a difference in our community, please listen to Suzanne’s story—she will give you gospel principles to figure out how best to do this in your unique way. It is an honor to have you on the podcast Suzanne. Thank you for the many ways you bless lives in our community. Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Clare Dalton joins us to bravely share her story. Clare grew up and lives in Arizona, served as a missionary in the Spain Barcelona Mission, earned a Linguistics degree from the University of Arizona, and now teaches high school seminary as a CES employee.Clare talks about her decision to come out in this public Facebook post in October of 2021:https://www.facebook.com/clare.dalton.71/posts/pfbid02QKAncqLVxmKc4fWAfiZkYc86pdzZMJoykaU2FZH94qkvNMBbKL1ej1SofXMgYoa6lClare talks about her testimony of the love of our Heavenly Parents and the role of the Savior in our lives. Clare talks about principles to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and create belonging. Some of the subjects Clare discusses are how silence sends a loud message, making choices out of faith vs. fear, creating Zion, caring more about truth than gossip, and creating safe spaces.This is a powerful podcast. Clare is a pioneer in a space that hasn’t been walked.If you are a queer Latter-day Saint or someone who wants to better support our queer members, please listen to this podcast. And if you want to better connect with our doctrine of loving Heavenly Parents and a Savior who walk with us, please listen to this podcast.Thank you, Clare, for being on the podcast. You are very courageous. Our Church and world are a better place with you and all your talents to bless others.Links mentioned in the podcast:Clare's podcast on Questions from the Closet:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/am-i-needed/id1504990147?i=1000582275449 Church resources for ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints:https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/counseling-resources/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saintsAmazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773 Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Sister Nancy Smith, who is in her 7th year serving in the California Anaheim Mission, shares her story. Nancy (married mother of 4 children, 13 grandchildren, and 4 great-grand children) talks about her own mental health journey during her early years of marriage and her path to healing. Nancy talks about her work to help and support full-time missionaries in her mission with their emotional health. It is a wonderful insight into the vast network of seasoned Latter-day Saints working to support full-time Latter-day Saint missionaries. If you are working to solve mental illness or help others, Nancy's podcast will help you. Thank you, Nancy for your much needed work. Links referenced in the podcast: https://nimh.nih.gov (National Institute of Mental Health) National Institute of Mental Health Resource Center (866-615-6464)(Monday through Friday 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. ET) Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services National Helpline (800-662-4357) https://medlineplus.gov Suicide and Crisis Hotline 988 The Power of Stillness: Mindful Living for Latter-day Saints (Deseret Book) https://calm.com (Calm app for meditation and mindfulness) Please Check Out My New Book (Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture; link below which has a chapter on this subject) Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-loveAmazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Char Ahlstrom (active LDS, Married Mother of 6, Grandmother of 6, Convert) shares her story of having three of her six children leave the church.
Char and her husband Tom raised their six children teaching the gospel and serving in their Long Beach Ward and Stake—with hope their children would stay active members of the church and raise their children in the Church.
But things turned out differently as Char shares having her 4th child (Kyle) come out as gay. Then her 6th child (Keith) also came out as gay. Both Kyle and Keith have stepped away from the Church and are in long-term relationships with men. Char also had another son and daughter-in-law out of the Church.
Char, who has been on this road for many years, has helpful insights for parents new to this road. She shares going from fear to peace—and from loving to accepting to action. Char talks about how prayer, scripture study, being open to learning, temple attendance and the atonement of Jesus Christ has given her personal revelation, tools, and peace.
If you are looking for a seasoned voice to help you as a parent with children now longer participating in the Church, Char’s story will help you. And if you are looking for gospel principles to find more peace in your life and bless others, Char’s insights will help you.
Thank you for your courage and vulnerability to be on the podcast. You are a remarkable woman. Your family story is a beautiful love story.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
This is a solo podcast for my friend wanting to repent and for parents/local leaders/friends looking to better help them. It is based on Chapter 5 called “Hope-Filled Repentance” from my book “Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture”.
I hope and pray this podcast is helpful to you.
All my love, Richard
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Richard Ostler Book: Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love and Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
Richard Ostler Ensign Article: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin?lang=eng
My friend Dr. Ryan Gottfredson (active LDS, married father of two, leadership and management professor at the College of Business and Economics at California State University-Fullerton) joins us to talk about his Leading Saints article called “The Root Cause for Why Members Leave the Church and What Leaders Can Do About It”.
In this article Ryan shares facts about why people leave the Church and what ministering tools we can use to help people who want to find a way to stay be able to stay.
Ryan brings his professional work into this space discussing adults development stages and how a “faith crisis” should be framed in a positive way as growth and “vertical development”. Ryan opens up about some of his difficult experiences and how he has able to move forward.
This is a powerful podcast. I learned so much.
If you are in a “faith crisis” please listen to his podcast. If you are a Latter-day Saint and want better ministering tools to help you fellow Latter-day Saints with honest questions and to better create Zion, please listen to Ryan’s insights. I believe it will help you.
Thank you, Ryan, for being on the podcast and your needed work in our community!
Podcast Links:
Leading Saints Article: https://leadingsaints.org/the-root-cause-for-why-members-leave-the-church-what-leaders-can-do-about-it/
Ryan’s New Book “The Elevated Leaders”: https://www.amazon.com/Elevated-Leader-Leadership-Vertical-Development/dp/1631958917
Ryan’s Web Site (also where you can contact him): https://ryangottfredson.com/
Please Check Out My New Book (Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture; Chapter 10 talks about this subject) Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Crystal Bowman (active LDS, Mother of six, Marriage and Family Therapist) joins us to share some thoughts on how to talk to our kids about sex from a shame-free approach. The podcast provides new perspectives and helpful tools to begin to talk about sex in an age-appropriate way to be intentional and normalize these conversations in our homes. Crystal teaches this is not a one-time conversation—but an ongoing dialogue with our children that continues as they age up into adulthood.
If you are looking for better tools to teach sex education in your home, please listen to Crystal’s insights. It will help you. If you are a local leader wanting to improve your ability to talk about and teach on this subject, this podcast will help you. I wish I had listened to a podcast like this 30 years ago. When we know better, we do better.
Thank you, Crystal, for your needed voice and work in our community. I encourage everyone to listen and share this podcast.
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Crystal’s e-mail: crystalbowmanmft@gmail.com
Crystal’s webpage: http://crystalbowman.net; https://www.arizonafamilyinstitute.com/CrystalBowmanMASLAMFT
Crystal's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063576522561
LDS Church lesson manual: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/help-for-parents/lessons-for-teaching-children/sexual-intimacy
My friend Amberly June Bean (gay, active LDS, married mother of one; late 20’s) joins us to bravely share her story. Amberly, who grew up in Idaho Falls, talks about knowing she was gay and eventually coming out to her mother (good experience). She talks about the shame and suicidal ideation she felt during this time and not wanting to disappoint her Heavenly Parents by being gay.
Amberly talks about the good experience of serving a mission (Nashville, Tennessee) which included coming out to her Mission President.
Amberly talks about not participating in the Church for a time and dating women after her mission—but then returning to the church. Amberly, in an unexpected turn, talks about falling in love and marrying her husband, Kendall. Amberly talks about why she decided to come out more broadly via this podcast and her work with Lift and Love to help with support groups for queer youth.
Thank you Amberly for being on the podcast. You are brave and awesome. Your story will help so many.Links mentioned in the podcast:
Lift and Love: https://www.liftandlove.org/
Amberly Bean Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theamberlyjb/
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Liz Kazandzhy (married mother of 3, active LDS, podcaster) joins us to talk about her new book focused on helping us better unlock the power of the Holy Ghost to have more spiritual experiences, make better decisions, and feel more hope.
Liz (taking each letter of the alphabet) shares how the Holy Ghost can help and guide us. She also shares some personal stories, including working through depression, anxiety, and self-doubt.
If you are looking for better tools to unwrap the power of the Holy Ghost, I encourage you to listen to this episode and check out her book.
Thank you, Liz, for your wonderful work in our community!
Links mentioned in the podcast:
The Holy Ghost from A to Z: https://www.amazon.com/Holy-Ghost-What-Spirit-Can/dp/1462142745/ or https://deseretbook.com/p/the-holy-ghost-from-a-to-z Liz’s Podcast: https://ldsbooknook.com/
Liz’s Website: https://lizkazandzhy.com/
Liz’s Podcast Interview on The Cultural Hall: https://www.theculturalhallpodcast.com/2022/09/11/liz-kazandhy-ep-626-the-cultural-hall/
My friend Cassidy Lundgren (married mother of four, active LDS) joins us to talk about her three-decade journey dealing with OCD (especially scrupulosity subset) and depression. Cassidy starts with her high school and college years never feeling good enough and being sad all the time—and incorrectly believing that more religious commitment was the key to solve her challenges. Cassidy’s shares how this continued into her college and married years until she was diagnosed with scrupulosity which helped her understand her challenges were not a spiritual weakness but a mental health issue. This was a compete paradigm shift for Cassidy. She gave herself permission to do Church on her terms and develop boundaries on how best to move forward as a committed Latter-day Saint.
Cassidy also shares her journey with depression and how she continues to deal with that challenge. Cassidy is very open and brave about her sadness, fears, manifestations of her scrupulosity. It is her hope that her vulnerability will help others walking a similar road.
Thank you, Cassidy, for being on the podcast. You are very brave. Your story will help so many!
Like to book (The Doubting Disease) mentioned in the podcast: https://www.amazon.com/Doubting-Disease-Scrupulosity-Compulsions-Integration/dp/0809135531
Please Check Out My New Book (Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture; link below which has a chapter on this subject)
Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Nathan McLaughlin joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint and recent returned missionary (returned home in August of 2022).
Nathan starts the podcast with his years leading up to his mission, why he decided to stay in the church, organize a rally at BYU-I to support LGBTQ students, and then his decision to serve a mission. Nathan then talks about his mission which including coming out to individual people at times during his mission. Nathan then shares his spirit-led decision to come out as gay publicly on Facebook. I believe Nathan is the first Latter-day Saint missionary to come out publicly while serving.
Here is a link to Nathan’s Facebook post. https://www.facebook.com/natemaklocklin/posts/187097709829160
Nathan talks about reactions from members, missionaries, and investigators to his Facebook post (mostly positive) and how it allowed him to be more authentic and a more effective missionary.
If you are queer and thinking about a mission, Nathan’s podcast will help you. If you are looking to better understand and support queer Latter-day Saints, Nathan’s podcast will help you.
Thank Nathan for being on the podcast and your courage to be you. Respect. Our church and world are a better place with you in it. Thank you for your discipleship.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Kory Koontz (married father of 5) joins us to share his story in the hopes that his journey in life will help others. Kory bravely talks about figuring out his sexuality (he is bisexual), serving a mission, getting married and divorced, feeling suicidal, staying active in the Church, dealing with pornography, getting remarried, working through bipolar 2 and using God-given talents. Kory is very brave and vulnerable in sharing his story—which he is doing in hopes that is will help others. Thank you, Kory, for being on the podcast and your gospel insights to bring hope and healing.
My friend Jaci Wightman (married mother of 7, certified wellness coach) joins us to talk about her new book “Aren’t You Tired: Embracing the Lord’s Call to Enter His Rest”. Jaci write how this book focuses “on how worldly worries, juggling Church responsibilities, and managing societal expectations, many Latter-day Saints are tired. They are weary from constantly striving to work hard enough, be good enough, feel worthy enough. But it is important to remember that the Lord has promised us His rest, not only in the next life, but in this one. All we have to do is stop striving alone for a moment and reach for our Savior's outstretched hand.”
Further, Jaci talks about “how we need to leave behind our performance-based paradigm and embrace a grace-filled, new covenant mentality.” She also talks about the love of our Heavenly Parents and Their desire to be involved in our lives on our worst days and our best days. And how that love is not earned—but given to us by grace as Their children.
This is a wonderful podcast that I encourage everyone to listen as Jaci’s gospel-based principles that will help you find peace, hope and more grace for yourself and others.
Thank you Jaci for being on the podcast and your great work!
Podcast links: Jaci’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Arent-Tired-Embracing-Lords-Enter/dp/1462143415
Jaci’s website: https://jaciwightman.com/
Jeralee Renshaw and David Ostler join us to talk about a Facebook support group for LDS parents who have adult children not participating in the Church.
Jeralee and David share their own experience with some of their children leaving the church, the need to community for parents walking this road, what they have learned from other parents, what is helpful, and their goals for their families.
If you are an LDS parent with adult children not participating in the Church, this podcast will help you find peace, hope, healing, and a way forward. I encourage you to listen to this podcast and share it with others. I was deeply moved by the insights shared by Jeralee and David—and I believe you will too.
Thank you, Jeralee and David, for you much needed work in our community.
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Bridges Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1139458306236720
David Ostler Bridges Book: https://www.amazon.com/Bridges-Ministering-Those-Who-Question/dp/1589587596/
LDS Living Article: https://www.ldsliving.com/6-tips-for-parents-of-adult-children-who-dont-believe-in-the-church/s/90940
Ensign Article (Krista Mortensen): https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/07/you-love-he-saves?lang=eng
My friend, Elder Shane Carpenter, joins us as a full-time missionary from the California, Anaheim Mission of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to share his story as an openly gay missionary. Elder Carpenter states he wanted to be "my authentic self so I could become something better,” and be in a better position to help people come unto Christ. His podcast episode, with approval from his Mission Leaders, was recorded in the final days of his successful mission.
Elder Carpenter talks about coming out to and receiving support from his parents (Diane and Scott Carpenter), Bishop, and Stake President before leaving to serve as well as during his mission experience. He then shares about his supportive Mission Leaders who asked Elder Carpenter to conduct 2 mission trainings surrounding his experience as a gay Latter-day Saint—including 2 unprecedented mission--wide Q&As focused on teaching and loving our LGBTQ+ friends.
Elder Carpenter talks about his supportive companions, becoming a trainer, and success helping people come unto Christ through our Restored Gospel. You can read more about his experience becoming a trainer with this Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/imnotashaned/posts/684923212526060
This is a great podcast for all LGBTQ+ members considering a mission as well as all those wishing to better support LGBTQ+ missionaries and church members. All involved in this story are helping to create Zion—where we are unified in our needed difference to help more come unto Christ.
Thank you, Elder Carpenter, for your courage—you are a true disciple of Christ—you are also a warrior and a pioneer. All involved in this story are helping to pave the way for future LGBTQ+ missionaries. Thanks for helping all of our Heavenly Parents’ children feel they are loved and needed.
My friend Anne Easton (active LDS mother of four) and Malcolm Easton (age 29, web development, same-sex relationship) join us to share their story. The podcast starts with Anne’s talk in her Latter-day Saint congregation about her gay son Malcolm and what we can do to better support our LGBTQ family members. It is a powerful and needed talk. Anne also talks about all the subsequent needed conversations that resulted from her talk. It is a beautiful example of better creating Zion. Malcolm talks about deciding to attend church that day and the healing experience it was for him to hear his mother talk about him in such a positive way and the kind responses from ward members. Malcolm then shares his story including dealing with the anger and pain he felt towards the Church and how he got over that anger and is now in a place of greater peace. He talks about his loving and supportive family and how that has helped him move forward. He also shares his hope for more peace and understanding in the world and his kind thoughts back towards the church of his youth. It is a remarkable segment of grace. If you are looking for a ‘real-life’ family love story, please listen to this podcast. Anne and Malcolm—in a very real way—help bring us together as the same human family. Thank you, Anne and Malcolm, for being on the podcast. Honored to provide a platform for more to hear your story.
My friends Aubrey and Tim Chaves join us to talk about “Restore: A Faith Matters Gathering” on October 7-8 in Salt Lake City. In this episode they talk about the purpose of the conference, who is speaking, who is performing, and who is invited to this groundbreaking inaugural event.
For more information and to register, please go to https://faithmatters.regfox.com/restore
Also, Faith Matters is offering a discount to Listen, Learn and Love listeners. Please enter LISTEN when registering.
Thank you to everyone at Faith Matters for your efforts to make this conference possible and all the good you are doing in our community.
I encourage everyone to check out this event, consider attending, and share it with others. I plan to be there with you.
Our long-time family friend Ben Delmoe (married father of three, active LDS, age 31) joins us to share his story with OCD. Ben starts with how undiagnosed OCD ended his MTC experience causing him to return home. After 13 months, Ben returned and completed his mission pushing through OCD without full understanding of his mental illness.
Ben shares several examples of how he coped with OCD—without having the tools (exposure response therapy)—to fully learn how to live with OCD.
Ben, who has been married for over 7 years, talks about how he realized a couple of years ago that he needed to fully address his OCD (instead of pushing through) and how that led him on a path of understanding and healing. It’s a brave and remarkable story. And a beautiful love story with his dear wife Anny.
If you feel you might have OCD and dealing with it by seeking reassurance, please listen to Ben’s story. It is ERP—not constant reassurance—that is the path to healing and moving forward. And if you are working to help others, please listen to Ben’s story.
In the podcast, Ben encourages you to also listen to Noah Walker’s podcast (episode 557).
Thank you, Ben, for sharing your story. Respect. It will help so many.
This is a solo podcast for my younger unmarried LGBTQ Latter-day Saints friends—including a segment for transgender Latter-day Saints. This recaps the general principles and advice I give to younger unmarried LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. I hope and pray this is helpful. Much love, Richard
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Facebook Group to Minster to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Elder Rasband quote on doctine: https://www.thechurchnews.com/2021/9/1/23218781/elder-rasband-finding-answers-to-questions-california-institute-devotional
Richard Ostler’s LGBTQ Book: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints and amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Free download of Chapter 7 about Ministering to LGBTQ Latter-day Saint from Richard Ostler's LGBTQ book: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tpa24d5exiabd5/Chapter%207%2C%20Ministering%20To%20LGBTQ%20Latter-Day%20Saints.pdf?dl=0
My friend Suzette Ward Halterman (relationship and couples coach specializing in LDS mixed-faith marriages) joins us to talk about how to keep marriages and families strong and together when different perspectives and beliefs enter the relationship.
Suzette shares how those differences can be a good thing as it deepens emotional connection to create a better relationship.
If you are in relationships which started out with sameness, but now have differences—please listen to this podcast. Suzette (who has a Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy) has tools to help you. And if you want to help others, please listen to this podcast.
I learned much listening to Suzette and believe you will find nuggets in the podcast to help you. Thank you Suzette for being on the podast and your good work.
You can find Suzette on Instagram @suzettehalterman and at suzettehaltermancoaching.com
Please Check Out My New Book called "Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture" Chapter 10 is on Ministering to those with questions
My friend Shawn Moon (noted writer, business leader and community member) joins us to talk about his new book called Learning Leadership From the Scriptures: 12 Practices for Building Leadership Effectiveness Based on Timeless and Eternal Principles.
The book is available at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Leadership-Scriptures-Effectiveness-Principles/dp/1462142931/
Shawn talks about how to apply principles of leadership in our personal life (chapters 5-8); in our family (chapters 9-12) and in our calling (chapters 13-16). Shawn also talks about how Jesus is the perfect leader.
I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and read his book. It will give you new insights into gospel principles to help you in your life and in your circle of influence.
My high school friend Mark “Mini” Morgan joins us to talk about his journey into and then out of addiction. Mark bravely shared his story in this June 8, 2022, Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/mark.morgan.5439/posts/pfbid02ToW5aoKvuKzohpyCMd2CJqhgd3jXWGGu11AmEGWFVJigTxmocEGLueZByd6FjjHil
In this post Mark writes: “21 years ago, today my life was at rock bottom. Arrested for a second time with a whopping .62 cents to my name and homeless. Estrangement and despair come to mind. Divorce, heartbreak, disappointments, and darkness all seemed relevant back then. Today, I am a person in long term recovery.”
Mark is now in a good place and works Valley Behavior Health as a licensed substance use disorder counselor. In his work, Mark is able to help others to recovery.
If you are working to address and solve addiction, Mark’s story will help you. And if you are working to help others, perhaps Mark’s insights will be helpful.
Thank you Mark for being on the podcast. You have my continued love, support and respect. Just like during our high school days, you continue to bring light, unity, connection, and hope.
My friend Jody England Hansen (married mother of three, active Latter-day Saint) shares her story growing up in family that valued critical thinking, activism, looking out for the most marginalized and moving forward with the complexities/beauties of being a Latter-day Saints.
Jody also shares insights about her father, Eugene England, who was one of the most influential Latter-day Saints in our lifetime. Two biographies about Eugene England were published in 2021:
Eugene England: A Mormon Liberal by Kristine Haglund: https://www.amazon.com/Eugene-England-Liberal-Introductions-Thought/dp/0252086007 Stretching the Heavens: The Life of Eugene England and the Crisis of Modern Mormonism by Terryl Givens: https://www.amazon.com/Stretching-Heavens-Eugene-England-Mormonism/dp/B09NMQ43M3/
You can read more about Eugene England and his work at https://www.eugeneengland.org/
If you are looking for tools to move forward as a Latter-day Saint with the dissonance/paradox that can be part of your journey, please listen to Jody’s insights. She has a long view of being on this road and has remarkable insights to help you.
Thank you, Jody, for being on the podcast. Your soft heart, gospel insights, and love for all of our Heavenly Parents’ children is deeply moving to me. Thank you for your beautiful life ministry.
My friends Tyler Lefevor, Cynthia and Paul Winward join us to share about and invite listeners to the church leader sessions at Affirmation’s International Conference (attend in-person or virtual). If you register, you view and discuss the church leader sessions later as each session is recorded.
Here are links mentioned in the podcast:
Affirmation conference overview: https://affirmation.org/events/55412/ Affirmation signup (free for church leaders): https://affirmation.org/event-registration/?eventid=55412 Tyler Lefevor church leader survey: https://usu.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1ZhMEAFxcoHFvrE At Last She Said It Podcast: https://atlastshesaidit.org/
Thank you, Tyler, Cynthia, Paul and all involved in Affirmation to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
My friend David joins us to share his journey as a life-long Democrat. David isn’t on the podcast to recruit for new Democrats, but rather to help create space in our congregations for different political perspectives to be welcomed and valued.
David, who has been on this road his whole life, has the long view for younger liberal Latter-day Saints looking for voices and their needed perspectives. David shares his own journey (including a commitment to civil rights for over 35 years and putting politics aside during his church service) and suggestions for younger Latter-day Saints in their sometimes-difficult journey about where we are as a Church on issues close to their hearts.
If you are a politically liberal Latter-day Saint, David’s podcast will help you. If you are not a liberal Latter-day Saint, perhaps David’s podcast will also help you and give you added tools and insights to help create Zion—where we bring our differences together so our “hearts are knit together as one.”
Thank you, David, for being on the podcast. Your words and insights helped me. Thank you for all your work in many circles.
My friend David Butler joins us to talk about the beautiful doctrine of our restored Church and how it applied to our lives. David also shares a gospel principles framework to manage the complexities of life’s questions. David also shares how our Heavenly Father will always be there to help and support us and the role of Jesus in our lives.
If you are looking for a steady gospel voice to give you hope, perspective and more tools to make you way forward as a Latter-day Saint please listen to this episode. And if you want more tools to help others, David’s insights will help you.
And please check out David Butler and Emily Belle Freeman’s Come Follow Me YouTube/Podcast called “Don’t Miss This” at dontmissthisstudy.com. And please follow David on Instagram @mrdavebutter for inspirational and hopeful messages.
Thank you, Dave, for your needed and wonderful work in our Latter-day Saint community. You are blessing many lives!
My friend Preston Jenkins (who was on Episode 237) joins us to talk about his new book, “This Boy and His Mother: Healing from Trauma as a Gay Latter-day Saint.” The book talks about how Preston found hope and healing through Christ after sexual and emotional abuse during his mission. The abuse resulted in PTSD and would be triggered by things related to The Church (such as reading scriptures). Preston talks about how he and his mother addressed, worked through, and solved this trauma with guiding help from the Godhead.
If you have experienced church-generated pain and/or trauma, this book and podcast will help you. For Preston, this isn’t theoretical, but a real-life application of the doctrine of Christ and therapy to heal. Preston has a powerful understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal our hearts and souls and his story will help you.
Preston is joined on the podcast with his new bride, Taryn (married January 2022). They talk about their beautiful and authentic love story, being open and honest about everything in their lives, and answer typical questions they receive as a couple in a mixed-orientation marriage. I was deeply moved to hear their story.
Please listen to this podcast. It will help you and give you better tools to help others. It is a real-life application of the doctrine of Christ.
Thank you, Preston and Taryn, for being on the podcast. Thank you for your courage, faith, and vulnerability. You two are awesome. Thanks for helping so many by sharing your story.
Links:
Paperback or Kindle Book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B57V2P14/ Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/B0BB3DZ7BM/?source_code=AUDFPWS0223189MWT-BK-ACX0-319794&ref=acx_bty_BK_ACX0_319794_rh_us
Cover artist’s Instagram: @hymalayah (Hyrum Thompson) Cover artist’s website: society6.com/hymalayahart
Sit Down with Sky and Preston Instagram: @Sitdownwithsky Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sit-down-with-sky-preston/id1574970502
You can reach Preston at: thisisprestonjenkins@gmail.com
My friend Noah Walker (age 20, active LDS, college student) shares his story with OCD with a focus on some of the “taboo” subsets including harm OCD and pedophilic OCD. Noah talks about egosyntonic (line up with values) and egodystonic (don’t line up with values)—a critical difference in understanding these subsets.
Noah also talks about this path to hope and healing—and how he pulled out of feeling suicidal. Noah also talks about Alma’s seed experiment and how this applies to his journey. Noah concludes with seeing God’s hand in the whole process.
If you are working to understand and solve OCD, Noah’s podcast will help you. If you want better tools to help others, Noah’s story and insight will help you.
Thank you, Noah, for sharing your story. It will help so many. You are a good man.
My friend Dr. Matthew Wickman (BYU Professor of English and Founding Director, Emeritus, of the BYU Humanities Center) joins us to talk about his new book called “Life to the Whole Being, The Spiritual Memoir of a Literature Professor”.
The great book (published by the BYU Maxwell Institute) is available at: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Whole-Being-Spiritual-Literature/dp/0842500618/
In the podcast, Dr. Wickman tells us why he wrote the book, who is hopes will read it and how he hopes it will help readers.
If you are in a faith crisis, wondering where God is in the complexities of mortality, want to develop more faith and/or want better tools to help others, this book/podcast will help you. If you have loved ones no longer in the Church, this podcast will help you feel more peace. I was deeply moved during the podcast with Dr. Wickman’s wonderful insights and soft heart. I feel more peace and have more hope.
Thank you, Matt, for being on the podcast and your great and needed work in our faith community. I encourage everyone to read your book.
My friend Renee Davis (married mother of two, CPA, lives in Knoxville TN) joins us to share her story.
Renee starts with her remarkable conversation story into the Church about 30 years ago—with many people in her life against her decision. Renee also talks about her Patriarchal blessing helping her to better understand her future.
Renee shares being kind and supportive to gay people in her life and their impact for good in society and in her life. At the end of the podcast, she shares a deeply moving song her friend Levi wrote called “Stained Glass Window”.
Renee has felt like a “fringe member” and is also someone who at times is a “foyer sitter”. But as we listen to Renee’s story, I believe we are hearing from someone deeply committed to the Gospel and being like Jesus.
If you feel like a “fringe member” who may not belong at Church, please listen to Renee’s story. It will help you. And if you want to do a better job of helping everyone feel welcome, needed, and have a sense of belonging in our Church, please listen to Renee’s story.
Thank you, Renee, for being on the podcast. You are a remarkable woman blessing many lives!
My friend Gene Grant (late 60s, served two missions, married father of four, former Mayor, Attorney ) shares his sometimes-painful journey as a liberal Latter-day Saint.
Gene has the long view of being on this road and has seen a lot of positive change and improvements. He has also had some very difficult experiences—including the threat (after his second mission) of having his temple privileges removed.
If you are a liberal Latter-day Saint looking for tools, perspectives, and reasons to stay in the Church—this podcast will help you. And if you are a conservative leader/member looking to build Zion where we are stronger using our diversity to bless and lift others, this podcast will help you.
This is not a podcast to change your political views—rather Gene sharing his 5 decades of experience to help us better love, see and support each other as Latter-day Saints working to Gather Israel and build Zion.
Thank you, Gene, for being on the podcast. Your story personally blessed and help me and will do the same for many others!
My friend Scott Baldwin (BYU Professor, Clinical Psychology, Married Father of 5) shares the experience of his mission in 1997 ending after 8 days. Scott talks about the shame and sadness he felt leaving the MTC and not completing a mission.
Now 25 years from that experience, Scott shares insights, principles, and perspectives to help other early-release missionaries feel hope in the moment and for their future. Scott’s wife Autumn joins us to share why she married Scott and loves this part of his journey because of the his gifts and Christlike attributes to help others.
If you are an early-release missionary, this podcast will help you as Scott has the long-view of this road. And if you are a local leader, parent or friend, please listen to this podcast to help the current (or future) early-release missionaries in your circle.
Thank you, Scott, for sharing your story—along with your academic and clinical insights into this space. Combining all those perspectives helps us better support early-release missionaries. Honored to have you on the podcast!
References:
Dr. Burden-Stelly resilience quote is at: https://twitter.com/blackleftaf/status/1539737405091110912
Dr. Scott Baldwin’s clinical practice is at: https://scott-baldwin.clientsecure.me
Please Check Out My New Book (Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture; link below) which has a chapter on this subject
Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Deeanna (divorced, mother of 4, active LDS) joins us to share growing up in a rural community in the 1990s with her dear best friend/boyfriend Ryan. It is a beautiful high school romance—but one that Ryan seemed to know wouldn’t work long-term and Deeanna came to understand and accept. Deeanna talks about Ryan’s support during High School and her mission—but how they started to separate when Ryan stepped away from the Church. Deeanna talks about learning Ryan was gay and how their relationship stayed strong as they got on with their respective lives. It is a beautiful love story—one that is very different than Deeanna envisioned in High School. Deeanna shares her Facebook post when she learned that Ryan died. The podcast concludes with Deeanna’s talk at Ryan's graveside service. Thank you, Deeanna, for being on the podcast. Your story honors Ryan and helps bring us together as the same human family.
My friend Justin Traasdahl (Ukraine RM, BYU Grad) joins us to bravely share his story. Justin starts with opening up at age 13 to his parents about possibly being gay which led to a long and painful road with conversion therapy that lasted around 15 years. Justin’s hope in sharing his story helps “change hearts and trajectories”.
Around age 29, Justin went to a new LDS therapist who told him “Justin, you know reparative therapy doesn’t work, right?” Justin shares questioning conversion therapy along the way —that this is who he is—but needed to hear this from a different therapist.
Justin shares the pain, trauma and betrayal of conversion/reparative therapy and his road to healing and hope. It is a remarkable story of courage. One of the reasons Justin agreed to do this podcast is to help younger queer youth and parents avoid this type of therapy which is still legal in some states.
Justin, who is no longer an active Latter-day Saint, talks about his hope for the future that includes sharing his life with his future husband. In a closing segment Justin talks to his 13-year-old self using language very different than conversion therapy. It is a beautiful segment on how I feel our Heavenly Parents see all Their children.
Thank you, Justin, for being on the podcast. Sharing your story helps us all do better, and you are “changing hearts and trajectories”. You are a great man and have a wonderful life ahead of you.
My friend Kathryn Sonntag joins us to talk about her new book called “The Mother Tree: Discovering the Love and Wisdom of Our Divine Mother” (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09XG49WH8/) published by our friends at https://faithmatters.org/.
Kathryn (active LDS, mother of two, MLA in landscape architecture and environmental planning) shares her spiritual insights about “The Mother Tree” and the hope, perspective and meaning this brings into her life. I was deeply moved listening to and learning from Kathryn. Her voice and insights are so needing in our community to better create Zion which includes Mother Earth and the Divine Mother.
I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and read Kathryn’s book. Thank you, Kathryn, for being on the podcast. I hope we continue to hear your insights and perspectives—you are a wonderful gift to our faith community to bring more hope, understanding and healing.
You can read more about Kathryn at https://www.kathrynknightsonntag.com/
My friend Heidi Bartle (Active LDS, Mother of 5, BYU Grad) shares her story of waves of unexplained sadness which led to a diagnosis of depression and a further diagnosis in 2012 of bipolar. With the encouragement of a therapist, Heidi opened up to her children (ages 5 – 15 at the time) about her mental illness. That helped reduce the shame and sigma and normalized having a mental illness (just like having an allergy or asthma).
That led to Heidi to write a groundbreaking children’s book called “When Mommy Feels Sad: A Mother’s Journey Through Depression” which is at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/When-Mommy-Feels-Sad-Depression/dp/1638859787
If you are a parent with a mental illness, Heidi’s book and this podcast will help you. If you have someone in your life with a mental illness, Heidi’s insights will help you. There are so many wonderful segments in the podcast including the ending about deliverance being both a process along the way and a final event.
You are one of my new heroes Heidi. Thanks for your courage to share your story. You are giving hope and better tools to so many.
My friend Joe Horton shares the story of falling in love in 1978 with his wife Ann concurrent with her MS diagnosis. Joe talks about healing blessings, advice to not marry someone with MS, and his personal revelation to marry Ann. It is a beautiful and deeply moving love story.
Joe (who was President/CEO of Primary Children’s Hospital from 1994-2007 and currently is Professor in the MHA Program at the David Eccles School of Business) talks about the deep rewards and challenges of the road they jointly walked together. That road included having two children (Matt and Drew), Ann eventually needing a wheelchair, managing providing care, Ann blessing so many, and Ann’s passing on April 15, 2021. You can read Ann’s obituary here: https://www.larkinmortuary.com/obituary/view/margaret-ann-horton-13
Joe’s life is very different than he imagined on the flight home from Rome Italy in 1975 after a successful LDS mission. However, Joe shares how he wouldn’t trade this life for the life he once imagined.
Joe ends the podcast with nine life lessons he has learned from the experience. The principles in these life lessons are foundational and can help all of us navigate the realities of mortality.
I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast. It will help you have more hope. It will help you better see our Heavenly Parents love for all their children during our difficult mortal journey. It will also help you help others as they walk complicated roads.
Thank you, Joe, for being on the podcast. Your story honors Ann. I’m glad more are hearing about your wonderful wife and the many lives that are better because of her. Thank you for your courage and faith and all the lives that are better because of you.
My friend Allison Dayton (Active LDS, Mother of Three Including a Gay Son) joins us to share her latest thoughts on the intersection of being LDS and LGBTQ. Allison has been on this road for 4 decades with her gay brother Preston (who died in 2017) and her gay son Jake (currently at BYU) and has a unique and needed perspective.
Allison started Lift and Love (check out liftandlove.org and @liftandlove on IG) which is a support group for LDS parents with LGBTQ kids. It also helps give local leaders more tools to better support LGBTQ youth. Life and Love also has a series of support groups (mentioned in the podcast) that is so needed and expanding. Life and Love is identity supportive and church supportive.
I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and connect with Lift and Love. It will help you as a parent, local leader or LGBTQ member. Thank you, Allison, for your great work.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Evie Jimenez (BYU Student, RM, Age 21) joins us to bravely talk about her eating disorder (anorexia nervosa). She discusses personal daily battles with the disorder since her diagnosis at age 11 and the difficulty of those years on a personal, family, and social level. Evie then talks about her road to hope and healing (family support, accepting her disorder, therapy, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ). She offers honest and vulnerable stories about the mental dialogue of her disorder including counting calories in the sacrament bread.
Evie is now in recovery. She is looking forward to finishing her education at BYU and a career helping others recover from eating disorders.
If you are working to solve an eating disorder or help others, please listen to this podcast. Evie’s story will help you. Thank you Evie for being on the podcast. You are brave and courageous. I was deeply moved hearing your story!
Please Check Out My New Book (Improving Latter-day Saint Culture; link below)
Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Lauren Harrigian (who was on Episode 540) joins us to answer questions and give more insights following her original podcast episode. Thank you, Lauren, for being on the podcast and share more about your journey. You are awesome.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Koji Aoki (Age 27, RM, Married, Grad School) joins us to talk about his 10+ year journey to understand and then solve his porn use. Koji (who is a long-time family friend) talks about how his porn use started, how it became a habit and then how he stopped using porn to serve a mission (Lima, Peru North). Yes, Koji got clean for his mission but lacked the tools to see and solve the root of his porn use.
Koji talks about life after his mission and how porn came back into his life as a copying mechanism which led to immense feelings of shame. Those feelings a shame and depression led to an attempted suicide that allowed Koji to fully open up to his parents and get more help. It also led to direct revelation in a powerful moment of “you are enough”.
Koji (who has completed two full iron man triathlons including Kona, HI) talks about connecting with Sara Brewer (https://www.sarabrewer.com/) and the added tools and insights that allowed Koji to end porn use. Koji also talks how he is grateful for this whole journey because of the added Christlike attribute to help others. Koji, married in September 2021, talks about opening up to his now wife Kenley on the second date about his porn use and how they navigated that road together.
This is one of the finest podcasts we’ve done to end porn use. If you are working to end porn use, looking to avoid it in the first place, or looking for better tools to help others—please listen to this podcast.
Thank you, my friend Koji, for being on the podcast. Respect. Thanks for bringing light and hope too so many! You can reach Koji at k10aoki@gmail.com.
My friend Shawn Tucker (Humanities Professor Elon University, Married Father of 4, Active LDS) joins us to talk about his new book about humility. The book explores qualities like devotion to God, meekness, vulnerability, seeing your weakness, respect, modesty, friendship. The book gives practical insights into what it means to be humble in your relationship with God and with others.
I learned so much listening to Shawn’s insights about humility. It helps me see some of my blind spots and want to do better. It helps me find more peace in my life to be normal—and finding joy in being normal.
Please check out the book at: https://www.amazon.com/Humility-Practical-Approach-Shawn-Tucker-ebook/dp/B09ML7BQNM
Thank you, Dr. Tucker, for being on the podcast and your insights and gifts to help us become a more Zion like people.
My friend Autumn Brooke White bravely shares her 20+ year journey with undiagnosed scrupulosity. Autumn (now in her late 30s) shares the intrusive thoughts about worthiness that have been part of her life since her teenage years. Autumn talks about how she best navigated walking this road alone—not feeling safe to open up to others or realizing this was not a spiritual weakness.
Autumn then shares, about two years ago, opening up to others (friends, Bishop) which led to a therapist with an understanding of scrupulosity resulting in an accurate diagnosis and a relatively short path to healing.
If you are having thoughts of unworthiness, it may not be a spiritual weakness—it may be scrupulosity (or spiritual OCD) which attacks that is most precious to you. Listening to this podcast will help you. And if you want to be prepared to help others in your circle that have undiagnosed scrupulosity, this podcast will give you tools to see it in others and get them help. No one should live 20 years with undiagnosed scrupulosity.
Thank you, Autumn, for being on the podcast. Great job. You are brave and courageous. Your story will help so many.
Please Check Out My New Book called "Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture". Link Below. Chapter 7 is about Scrupulocity
Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Nicole Herway (LCSW, Mother of Two, Divorced Survivor of Intimate Partner Abuse, Active LDS) bravely shares her own story to help others. She is not doing this to speak poorly of her former spouse, but to increase knowledge and awareness of abusive patterns and debunk myths.
In the podcast Nicole debunks 8 myths using her own story, academic knowledge, and front-line clinical experience.
If you feel you might be in an abusive relationship, please listen to this podcast. It will help you. If you suspect someone you love is in an abuse relationship, please listen to this podcast. And if you are a local church leader, please listen as it will give you better tools to help others.
Thank you, Nicole, for being on the podcast. I learned so much. I encourage everyone to listen to this powerful episode.
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Nicole’s web site: https://www.herwaycounseling.com/
Power and Control Wheel and Equality Wheel: https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wheel-gallery/
Sister Aileen H. Clyde Quote (starting with “If charity is not ….): https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1991/11/charity-suffereth-long
Elder Kearon April 2022: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2022/04/24kearon
Elder Hollard April 2021: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2021/04/23holland
Please Check Out My New Book (Improving Latter-day Saint Culture; link below)
Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Lauren Harrigian (early 30s, living in AZ, Mental Health Therapist) share her journey to transition and then later connect with and join the Church. Lauren talks about why transitioning helped her be her ‘full-self’ leading to more happiness and peace. Lauren then talks about why she joined the Church to find more peace and feel God’s love. She also talks about the love and support she is receiving as a member of the Church in her Ward and Relief Society.
This is a great podcast to understanding our transgender friends and how to love/support a transgender Latter-day. It also gives us insights on how we are stronger with our transgender members and how they too a part of the “Gathering of Israel” and help us create Zion.
Thank you, Lauren for being on the podcast. You are awesome.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Trigger Warning: Podcast talks about Suicide. If you are suicidal please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255
My friend Troy Gagon (age 52, Married Father of 7, Active LDS) bravely shares his long journey to understand and solve pornography—including the effectiveness of the ACT (Acceptance, Commitment, Therapy) approach.
Troy also talks about his 17-year-old son Terik who died by suicide in Feb 2015 (you can read more about Terik at www.terikgagon.com). Troy talks about how his family is healing and finding hope, things we can do to better support families who have lost on to suicide, and hopeful thoughts to those who are suicidal.
If you are working to solve pornography, please listen to this podcast. Troy’s insights will help you.
And if you have lost a family member to suicide, Troy’s perspective and gospel insights will help you.
You can reach Troy at T.s.gagon@gmail.com or 801-836-5733.
Thank you, Troy for your courage to share your story. Respect.
Please Check Out My New Book (Improving Latter-day Saint Culture; link below) that discusses solving pornography—and helping those with scrupulosity and mental health challenges
Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Michael Finch bravely shares his story. Michael talks about realizing at BYU that he is gay before his mission, resulting in feelings of “my life is over”. At that time, Michael ignored this realization, and he served a successful mission in New York City speaking Mandarin Chinese.
Michael talks about returning home and trying to move forward with his life including coming out as gay (positive experience). However, suicidal ideation (which has been part of Michael’s story since before his mission) continued until Michael’s suicide attempt in March 2021.
Michael bravely shares more about that experience, what he has learned and why he decided to openly share about his suicide attempt to help others.
A year after his suicide attempt, Michael made this Instagram post in March 2022 (www.instagram.com/p/CbgRYONvJMEG2Y9pKxDA2u7r272D-WqoTy-EZk0/).
If you are feeling suicidal or what to help others, please listen to Michael’s podcast. He helps us understand why someone considers suicide and how best to help them. I learned so much listening to Michael.
If you are suicidal, please call 800-273-8255
Thank you, Michael, for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story. Respect. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤️ https://www.listenlearnandlove.org/gay-lesbian-same-sex-podcasts https://listenlearnandlove.org/suicide-podcasts
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Taylor Niebergall (active LDS, Married Mother of Two) joins us to talk about her podcast focus on building bridges between those in the Church and those who have left the Church.
Taylor talks about why she started the podcast, the purpose and her hopes to build more understanding between these two groups of people.
You can check out Taylor’s podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-bridges/id1585596531. The article she wrote can be found here, http://the-after-eden-project.com/ and you can follow the Building bridges Facebook page here https://www.facebook.com/Building-Bridges-podcast-101942785569497/ or Taylor’s personal account here https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008387117636
You can also check out my brother David Ostler’s book referenced in the podcast at: https://bridgeslds.com/about-author/
Thank you Taylor for being on the your good work to bring us together as the same human family.
Check out my book on improving Latter-day Saint Culutre
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love
My friend Sadi Rogers (age 32, EMT, mother of 3) shares her story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Sadi talks about growing up in Arizona, realizing she has romantic feelings for women, being honest with her Bishop and eventually marrying a man.
Sadi talks about the goodness of that marriage (lasted 11 years) which eventually ended. Sadi then talks about her desire to be single and fully participate in the Church. That changed when Sadi met and then fell in love with her now wife Quinn Kelly—including personal revelation this was her path.
While I invite everyone to follow Church teachings, I share stories of LGBTQ Latter-day Saints on their own unique paths to help us better support others. Neither Sadi or I are inviting others to follow Sadi’s path—but we are inviting us to come together as the same human family to love and support each other and leave judgement to our Savior and His perfect understanding.
Thank you for your courage to be on the podcast Sadi and share your story. You are a wonderful person doing much good in this world. I’m glad you have Quinn in your life. You both have my love and support.
For more stories of LGBTQ Latter-day Saint women, please check out Meghan Decker’s book (referenced in the podcast) at https://meghandecker.com/tender-leaves-of-hope
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Ashely Smith (Married Mother of Six, Active LDS, Mayor of Cañon City, Colorado) shares the story of raising and supporting their gay son Kyle.
This podcast is based on the excellent article that Ashley wrote for LDS Living in June 2022 (https://www.ldsliving.com/what-can-you-say-when-a-family-member-comes-out-as-gay-7-ideas-from-a-latter-day-saint-mom/s/10712).
This is a powerful podcast. I encourage everyone to read the LDS Living article and listen to the podcast and then consider what you can do in your circle of influence to improve our understanding of and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Thank you, Ashley for being on the podcast and writing this LDS Living article. You are doing wonderful work in many areas to bless and help others.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Marie Cook (Active LDS, Age 28, Married Mother, Temple Square RM) bravely shares her story growing up in a home with a narcissistic mother. Marie discusses how she gradually realized her unhealthy upbringing and how these behaviors were becoming part of how she treated others.
Following a painful breakup, Marie (with the help of friends) walked into BYU-Idaho counseling center to begin her road to healing and to break the cycle in her future family. It is a remarkable story of courage to change her trajectory and now help others.
Marie, who is a certified recovery coach, shares helpful tips on her Instagram account @marieelliscook
If you are in a relationship with someone who is narcissistic, this podcast will help you. If you want insights to help others in a narcissistic relationship, this podcast will help you.
And if you have narcissistic tendencies, this podcast will help you. Thank you, Marie, for your courage to share your story.
My friend Isabelle Wheeler (age 23, UVU student, RM) bravely shares their journey as a nonbinary Latter-day Saint. Isabelle talks about their early life, college, serving a mission (Fort Lauderdale, FL), and their experiences following their mission.
If you are nonbinary or transgender, Isabelle’s insights and experience will help you. If you are a parent or local leader trying to better support nonbinary or transgender Latter-day Saints, Isabelle’s story will help you.
Thank you, Isabelle for your courage to be on the podcast. I was deeply moved hearing your experiences and gospel insights. You are remarkable and our Church is better with you as a member.
Links mentioned in the podcast:
Deseret News Article: https://www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2022/6/7/23157031/1-in-20-young-adults-identify-as-transgender-or-nonbinary-pew-survey-finds-pew-research-lgbtq
LGBTQ Workshop Panel with Trans and Nonbinary Students: June 15th, Utah Valley University Institute, 7 pm, 785 College Dr, Orem, UT 84058
Chapter 8 from Richard Ostler’s Book: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uz9qjy1dq5fox7c/Chapter%208%2C%20Transgender%20Latter-day%20Saints.pdf?dl=0
Great podcast from Questions for the Closet on Gender Dysphoria: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-is-gender-dysphoria/id1504990147?i=1000565502494
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Teresa Myers (BYU grad, RM, Recently Married, Active LDS) shares her story as a bisexual Latter-day Saint. Teresa starts with difficult years (including suicidal ideation) that has a component in her sexual orientation. Teresa talks about her decision come out to others, importance of therapy and her decision to share her story to help others.
Teresa talks about exploring all possible roads and then feeling personal revelation that her path forward was to marry a man and fully participating in the Church. Teresa talks about opening up to her husband Corbin during the dating process and how that ended up strengthening their relationship and developed a better foundation for honestly, vulnerability and community. Their story is a wonderful love story.
If you are a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, please listen to Teresa’s story. It will help you. If you are a parent of someone wanting to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, Teresa’s insights will help you.
Thank you, Teresa for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story. You are strong and brave and you being honest gives hope to others.
Links mentioned in the podcast:
LDS Living Article: https://www.ldsliving.com/what-can-you-say-when-a-family-member-comes-out-as-gay-7-ideas-from-a-latter-day-saint-mom/s/10712
Meghan Decker Book: https://meghandecker.com/tender-leaves-of-hope
Richard Ostler Faith Matters Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/114-are-we-listening-learning-and-loving-a/id1307757928?i=1000561389883
My friend Taryn Hiatt, Area Director Utah/Nevada American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, joins us to talk about suicide prevention.
Taryn (who has been working in this space for over 20 years after her father Terry who died by suicide in 2002) talks about the various organizations available to those considering suicide, those working to prevent suicide, and support for suicide loss survivors. Taryn has great insights into the scope of these organizations and how they all work together for the common goal of suicide prevention.
Taryn also shares her own journey as a survivor of being sexually assaulted and suicide attempts. For Taryn this isn’t theoretical—rather since she is walking this road—Taryn has real-life and practical insights to give hope and healing. Taryn talks about the “dark night of the soul” and finding hope that dawn will come. Her story is deeply moving and will help you.
She also talks about how to better support our LGBTQ friends.
If you are considering suicide or working to help others, please listen to this podcast. Taryn’s insights will help you.
Thank you, Taryn, for being on the podcast and all your great work in our community to saves lives and bring more understanding. You are a hero to me and many others!
Here are resources mentioned in the podcast:
Suicide Prevention Hot Line: 1-800-273-8255 Trans Suicide Hot Line: (877) 565-8860 or translifeline.org/hotline/
Trevor Project: 866-488-7386 Or www.thetrevorproject.org/
David Archuleta Love Loud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooh6otPKmzE
June 24th LGBTQ Suicide Prevention Event at University of Utah: https://utlgbtq.attendease.com/
Link to support a loved one after an attempt: https://afsp.org/when-a-loved-one-has-made-an-attempt/ and this recording youtu.be/ouHshCnh_Yw and www.namiut.org/resources/mentoring
Link to support you after your attempt and coming home: https://healthcare.utah.edu/hmhi/programs/crisis-diversion/
My friend Christian Judd shares the story of his brother Bryan who died by suicide in April of 2010. I became aware of Christian and his good work and message around this topic with these tweets:
https://twitter.com/christianmjudd/status/1513174782723846145
https://twitter.com/christianmjudd/status/1513583004785917957
Dr. Judd, who is a board certified psychiatric and mental health nurse practitioner, shares insights on how to help individuals navigate when someone close has died by suicide. He also provides insight for those who have considered suicide.
Here are three suicide prevention numbers. Please reach out for help if you are having suicidal thoughts:
Huntsman Mental Health Institute Crisis line (Utah residents): 1-801-587-3000 National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 1-800-273-8255 The Trevor Project: 1-212-695-8650
Here is a link to the David Archuleta Love Loud video mentioned in the podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooh6otPKmzE
If you are having thoughts of suicide or have lost someone to suicide, Christian’s insights may help you. Thank you Christian for being on the podcast and all your good work. You are a good man and friend.
Also, check out Christian’s podcast called Social Hall Sports Podcast (mostly about sports) at https://linktr.ee/socialhallpod
And check out a chapter from my new book on mental health (chapter 6) at: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Craig Jones (active LDS, married to his wife Jodi for 36 years, age 58, parents of three) joins us via Zoom from Edmonton, Canada to talk about his life-changing traumatic brain injury that occurred about ten years ago.
Craig talks about being in a coma, rehab and then working to heal and move forward. Craig is full of hope and a positive attitude—even with his life permanently changed.
If your mortal life has been forever changed because of medical issue in your life or a loved one, this podcast will help you. Thank you, Craig for being on the podcast. You are your wife Jodi are awesome.
My friend Chandler Rogers (New York City RM, Married, Age 24, BYU Grad) bravely shares his journey with overcoming pornography. Chandler talks about how it came into his life about 10 years ago, opening us to his Bishop and his Mother, leaving on his mission but still having slip-ups and opening up to his mission president, finishing his successful mission, coming home and opening up to his future wife Jade, how they navigated that reality and getting married.
Chandler talks about the new app, Relay, he developed to help others working to solve unwanted porn use. The app makes it easy to form a strong support system and find healthy accountability and deeper connection for healing. You learn more about it at www.joinrelay.app.
If you are working to end porn use or want to help others, please listen to this podcast. It will give you new insights and tools. And if you are trying to figure out how/when to open up to your significant other about your porn use, please listen to this podcast. Chandler's insights will help you.
Thank you, Chandler, for being on the podcast and your courage to be honest, real, vulnerable—and help us understand how the Savior feels about us and will help us. Respect. Your story gives hope to others.
And please check out the Relay App at www.joinrelay.app
Check out my new book that has a chapter (chapter 4) about solving pornography: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Jonathan Decker (active LDS, married father of 5, licensed marriage and family therapist) joins us to share his testimony which includes how he handles complicated aspects of church history and challenging current issues. It is beautiful testimony that includes the realities of difficult issues in our Church.
I became aware of Jonathan when I read this testimony that was shared broadly on social media and asked him to be on the podcast. Here is a link to that testimony: https://www.facebook.com/JonoDecker/posts/10159801545877937
If you are in a faith crisis, trying to reconcile complicated issues, or helping others; please read Jonathan’s testimony and listen to this podcast. It will help you. For some, it might be the sustainable framework to remain in the Church—and I’ve learned that many in a faith crisis do want to find an authentic way to stay in the Church.
You can read Jonathan's "Ask a Latter-day Saint Therapist" articles for LDS Living here: https://www.ldsliving.com/jonathan-decker
You can also check out Jonathan's YouTube channels mentioned in the podcast: Cinema Therapy - https://www.youtube.com/c/cinematherapysolutions Mended Light - https://www.youtube.com/c/MendedLight Personal channel with Jonathan's performances for BYU's Divine Comedy - https://www.youtube.com/c/JonathanDecker
Thank you, Jonathan, for being on the podcast. I was deeply moved listening to you and your insights into better living the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and read/share it along with your Facebook post.
Please Check Out My Two Books At
Amazon (LGBTQ): amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Amazon (Culture): amazon.com/dp/1462139566
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friends Angela Hughey (Co-founder and President, One Community of Arizona, gay) and Michael Soto (Chief Executive Officer of Equality Arizona, transgender man) join us to talk about the LDS supported LGBTQ legislation in Mesa, Arizona that was passed in 2021.
Elder Neil L. Anderson, in his April 2022 Conference Talk titled Following Jesus: Being a Peacemaker, mentioned this effort (www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2022/04/15andersen).
Thank you to the many Mesa area Church members who worked to get this legislation passed including Mayor John Giles and Councilwomen Julie Spilsbury.
Angela and Michael talk about scaling this effort to a become a nationwide law in the “Equality and Fairness For All Americans” effort. They invite you to join this effort by June 24th at www.equalityandfairness.com/.
Angela and Michael also talk about being invited and joining senior LDS Church leaders for the open houses for both the Mesa Arizona and Washington DC Temple open houses. They talk about the tender and positive interactions with senior leaders of the Church.
This experience was covered by Tad Walch for the Deseret News (www.deseret.com/faith/2022/4/27/23034223/latter-day-saint-leaders-lgbt-advocates-common-ground-washington-dc-temple-faith-religious-liberty).
Accompanying Angela and Michael to DC were James and Monica Phillips (LDS Parents of 2 LGBTQ children), Lynette and Cory Braddock (LDS parents of transgender daughter) and Abram and Ashley Ellsworth (LDS allies)
This is a remarkable story that I hope all Latter-day Saints listen to and then act on impressions on how to work in each of our circles of influence to build bridges on all types of issues that could divide us. This isn’t theory—this is how to take the doctrine of Christ to love and apply to bring us together as the same human family.
I also encourage everyone to go to www.equalityandfairness.com on consider joining this effort.
Thank you, Angela and Michael, for your great work. Honored to have you on the podcast.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Ben Lee (Harvard Law Grad, Age 27) shares the story of feeling deep spiritual impressions to write a book during the rigors of law school to address his own journey to look inward to see pride and work to reduce pride to lift the burdens of others and find more long-term peace. Ben talks about the importance of Christ’s own example of humility and showing grace and love to everyone.
This remarkable book is called Pride and Paradox: Exploring Christlike Humility and the Struggle to Defeat Pride and can be found at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WQVK19X
This is a serious book. I am deeply impressed with Ben’s insights and honest reflections to help us create Zion.
I encourage everyone to read and share Ben’s book. Thank you, Ben for being on the podcast and your needed voice to help bring us together as the same human family.
My friend Devorah Stucki (graduates May 2022 in Bioinformatics at the age of 19) joins us to share her story. Devorah focus on two main parts of her story. The first part is becoming aware she is lesbian by the end of High School and the second part is her experience at BYU.
Devorah talks honestly about the challenges of being queer at a BYU student. As we hear difficult experiences, it is a chance for us how we can improve things for queer Latter-day Saints in our circle of influence.
Devorah also talks about her decision to come out publicly and her advice to queer student consider or at BYU.
Thank you, Devorah for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story. You’ve accomplished much in your short life and have a great life ahead of you.
Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤️ https://listenlearnandlove.org/gay-lesbian-same-sex-podcasts
Podcast Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-524-devorah-stucki-queer-byu-student/id1347971725?i=1000560196752
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend, Dr. Cameron Staley who is a clinical psychologist and was on Episode 345, joins us to share new insights and tools to understand and solve pornography use. Dr. Staley (active Latter-day Saint) discusses the four main reasons some struggle with pornography use and how ACT helps reduce/solve pornography viewing.
If you are working to end pornography use or to help others, please listen to this podcast. I promise this podcast and ACT will help you. Thank you, Dr. Staley, for developing more tools and instilling hope and insights to help good people solve pornography use. Your work is so needed.
The resources mentioned in the podcast are:
Dr. Staley provides online counseling services to residents of Utah and Idaho. You can schedule counseling, check out the Life After Series Podcast, interviews, research, and free trainings on his website: https://cameronstaleyphd.wordpress.com/ or follow him @thelifeafterseries
Life After Pornography online program: https://www.lifeafterpornography.com/sales-page33509805
Life After Pornography Coach app: https://getyourmarriageon.com/life-after-pornography-coach/
Richard Ostler Book: amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friends, Andrea Neahusan (married mother of 6) and Amber Ayres (married mother of 5) bravely share their story of sexual, verbal, and emotional abuse by their father throughout their childhood. Their father’s severe manipulation kept the sisters from talking about the abuse the whole time. It wasn’t until Andrea was 19 that she finally revealed their secret to her Bishop and police got involved. They talk about the residual effects of their depression, anger, and PTSD from the abuse.
After 25 years of living in a safe environment, Andrea and Amber now feel compelled to share the patterns of healing which included therapy, boundaries, and prayerful experiences that allowed the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal their immense pain. Their hope is that their experiences will help others with traumatic pasts to know that healing and peace are possible.
If you are a survivor of any abuse or trauma and seek hope for your future, please listen to Andrea and Amber. If you feel the pain from the realities of a broken and mortal world, please listen. If you are supporting a friend or family member working through the effects of abuse or trauma, please listen. Their insights into the healing power of Christ’s Atonement are eye opening!
Trigger Warning If any listeners need to avoid the triggers of semi-explicit details of abuse, please skip the first half, and instead join us for the last half to hear about their miraculous, but difficult road to healing and forgiveness. This isn’t just theoretical for Andrea and Amber—but a very real, lived experience.
Thank you, Andrea and Amber, for your courage to share your story. Respect from all of us. This is one of our finest podcasts.
To connect with Andrea and Amber on social media:
Website: http://www.tendermerciesmightymiracles.com Instagram: @tendermerciesmightymiracles Facebook: Tender Mercies Mighty Miracles Email: tendermerciesmightymiracles@gmail.com
My friends Brent Ebmeyer and Sarrah Groves join us to share some of their story including the role of the Savior in our lives. Brent and Sarrah (leaders at North Star) talk about the upcoming North Star conference—including its goals, who is invited and the role of North Star to help us come unto Christ. The theme of this year’s conference is "One in Christ" based on Galatians 3:28. I encourage everyone to attend. You can learn more about North Star and register for the upcoming conference (in-person and virtual) at northstarlds.org. Thank you, Brent and Sarrah, for your courage to share some of your story and for all the great work you and the rest of the team are doing at North Star. I was deeply moved hearing you speak and the gospel principles you shared to help us in our lives.
My friend Ciera Clayton bravely shares her story. Ciera talks about her love of and testimony of the Church, coming out, and trying to navigate her sexuality. Ciera talks about dating women and getting married and having a son. Ciera talks about that marriage ending but being on good terms with her former wife.
Ciera talks about trying to date men and why that doesn’t work for her and why she returned to the Church.
Thank you, Ciera for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story. Every queer LDS story is unique and different, and it helps us to hear a variety of stories to help better support our LGBTQ members.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Clark Barrow (RM, Active LDS, Age 24, Married) bravely shares his journey with self-harm. Clark (who was on episode 398 with his siblings supporting their gay father Alec) talks about returning home from his mission to Utica, New York after 9 months with a knee injury. Clark talks about the anxiety of being home and how that experience led to significant anxiety and stress about when/if to return to his mission. That led Clark to finding a coping mechanism to numb the pain in self-harm. Clark talks about the shame and stigma around self-harm.
Clark returned to Utica, New York and served for another 9 months before the stress/anxiety of the mission led Clark to turn to his copying mechanism of self-harm. Clark, showing great courage, opened up to his companion and Mission President which resulting in Clark returning home.
Clark talks about being an early release missionary (twice) and what we can do to better support these good missionaries. Clark also talks about what led him to finally open up and get help with self-harm and begin his recovery. Clark is sharing his story to reduce the shame and stigma around self-harm to help others.
Clark’s wife Tegan shares her thoughts about self-harm and how they love and support each other—and the importance of being open and honest during the dating process (which helps create a foundation of trust and vulnerability that is one of the keys to a successful marriage).
Thank you, Clark and Tegan, for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. Thank you for your courage and voice of hope!
Please check out my new book that has a chapter about mental health and early-release missionaries: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love or amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Susie White (married mother of 4, early 50’s) shares her journey with PMDD (Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder) and PME (Premenstrual Exacerbation) which is very different that Premenstrual syndrome (PMS). Susie, by bravely sharing her story, helps us understand what this is; how it impacts mental health and can lead to suicidal ideation; how it is not a spiritual weakness; how it is diagnosed; and how to get help.
Please check out www.IAPMD.org for more information.
Susie mentions Christina Bohn Rudd who died from suicide with PMDD (the obituary of this remarkable women can be read at: https://www.columbiatribune.com/obituaries/pclm0093521) and the work for her mother Marybeth to bring more understanding. Her obituary includes this section:
Christina suffered from premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD), which can become more serious the longer it is undiagnosed and untreated. We feel compelled to share the importance of seeking help for premenstrual disorders. Many women and AFAB individuals are misdiagnosed and struggle to get appropriate help for many years. For information on PMDD, and if you would like to donate in lieu of flowers, please visit IAPMD.org.
Susie, a committed Latter-day Saint, also talks about how we can improve our culture to better support women and their families. Susie’s husband Tim also joins us to give insights about how men can support their spouses with PMDD.
Thank you, Susie for being on the podcast and for bringing light and understanding to PMDD and PME. You are doing live-saving work!
Please check out my new book that has a chapter about mental health: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love or amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Brandon Galli joins us to share his remarkable story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Brandon, who grew up in Draper Utah and is 21 years-old, talks about acting on the impressions he has received that led him to come out, take a job with Disney in Florida, and then attend school at BYU-Hawaii. Brandon talks about his great parents and what they are doing to support him.
Brandon talks about the positive experience he had a Disney and then at BYU-Hawaii including excellent experiences with administrators, faculty, and other students. Brandon talks about how BYU-Hawaii is helping to create Zion and gather Israel—for Israel includes LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Brandon is mature, spiritual, deeply authentic with a self-confidence about who he is and his life mission that is remarkable and helps all of us. Thank you, Brandon for being on the podcast along with your wonderful and helpful insights. You are great man with a wonderful future.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Eli McCann (age 37, Ukraine RM, Lawyer, Married Skylar in 2019) shares his journey. Eli starts with the pre-mission years, his Ukraine mission (good experience), and his journey following his mission where he was forced to finally face the reality of being gay and how that looks at a Latter-day Saint. Eli shares the terror and anxiety he felt during these years which led to Eli coming out in late 2013 (age 29) and concluding his best path forward is a committed same-sex marriage where we could build/share his life with someone.
Eli also talks about his love of Ukraine and the fundraiser that he organized (along with many others) in March 2022 to help raise over $150,000 for the people of Ukraine. Thank you for your continued efforts to bless lives in Ukraine.
Thank you, Eli for being on the podcast. Your story helps us see each other as members of the same human family and principles that help us love, honor and support everyone on their respective paths—where we have unity in diversity. You are a really good man with many wonderful gifts to bless and help others.
You can find Eli on FB, Instagram (@eliwmccann) and Twitter (@elimccann). You can also check out his work mentioned in the podcast at https://www.itjustgetsstranger.com/author/elimccann/ and http://itjustgetsstranger.com
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Dr. Ryan Anderson (Ph.D., married father of 4, active LDS, was on episode 443) talking about his groundbreaking book “The Choice to Leave Abuse” which is available at Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09PGKFY59) and Deseret Book (later in April 2022).
The book for local leaders, parents and individuals to recognize and then help others (or yourself) out of abusing relationships. It is based on gospel principles and teachings.
I encourage everyone to read this book and connect with Ryan’s work. I wish I had read this book before my YSA assignment. You can reach Ryan at randerson@telos.org or at his Facebook page @TheChoicetoLeaveAbuse
You can also listen to a free audio recording (www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZfoF6ubukY) of the first chapter of the book at The Choice to Leave Abuse YouTube Channel (www.youtube.com/channel/UC1dNDxmRw3VJL4J3FpcfSDQ.
Thank you, Ryan for being on the podcast and your great work.
My brother and friend David Ostler; Author of Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question which is available at Deseret Book (https://deseretbook.com/p/bridges-ministering-to-those-who-question?variant_id=181882-paperback) and Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958726X); join us to talk about a new chapter in his book.
This new chapter discusses how marriages can stay together—and even thrive—when one spouse chooses to step away from the Church. The gospel bases principals in this chapter also apply when an adult child steps away from the Church.
This chapter is free to download at bridgeslds.com and will be included in a future edition of his book. There is also a free guide to download at this site to help leaders talk in the councils and presidencies about how to minister to those who question.
We all have people in our lives who have stepped away from the Church. David’s book and new chapter help us keep the family circle together and preserve the relationship—even with people we love not participating in the Church.
David’s book also helps us better understand the reasons who someone leaves the Church—perhaps understanding these reasons (and discussing this at Church and in our families) helps some stay as we develop better ministering tools. David’s research points out that most in a faith transition do want to find a way to authentically stay in the Church.
David also talks about “Circles” and how this program helps develop better communication tools to have meaningful discussions with those who believe differently. David has led over 20 of these Circles and I encourage you to check this out and possible participate (via Zoom). You can learn more at bridgeslds.com
Thank you, my good brother for your efforts to “heal our divide” and create Zion.
My friend joins us via Zoom to share her story as a gay Latter-day Saint in this anonymous podcast. My friend shares her story to come out to herself, to others, to her parents on this deeply spiritual journey. She talks about the IG account she started @to_all_the_latterday_gays and the associated blog.
My friend talks about how her relationship with her Heavenly Father helped her accept being gay and is key to removing shame and bringing peace.
This is an excellent podcast from one of my youngest guests who insights, maturity and perspective well beyond her years. I encourage everyone to listen to this powerful podcast.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Meghan Decker joins to talk about her new book (released on April 10, 2022) called “Tender Leaves of Hope. Finding Belonging as a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint Women.” The book is at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462143288/ (paper-back and kindle with audiobook coming soon).
Meghan (my friend from High School) shared her story as a gay Latter-day Saint in Episode 473. Meghan and her husband David (who recently moved to Provo, Utah) are the parents of 5 daughters and 15 grandchildren.
In this podcast, Meghan talks about why she wrote the book, why it includes the stories of many other LGBTQ women on their respective paths, and how to honor and support people on their respective paths.
Meghan, who is the mother of a queer daughter in a same-sex marriage, shares gospel parenting principles to support LGBTQ children as they make their way forward and to learn to “let go of my agenda for my child.” Meghan also has wonderful and practical insights to help LGBTQ Latter-day Saints feel welcome and a sense of belonging in our congregations.
The book is for every Latter-day Saint. It will help you as a parent, as a local leader, if you are LGBTQ and if you want to do better at “gathering Israel”.
You are also invited to attend an event on April 12th at 7 pm in Provo Utah where Meghan will be speaking about her new book (see for complete details: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/tender-leaves-of-hope-tickets-267902572807)
You can contact Meghan at www.meghandecker.com
Thank you, Meghan for being on the podcast. You are doing great and needed work to bring us together. I encourage everyone to read your book!
My friend David Bingham (Age 60, Gay Latter-day Saint, Creative Director) shares his remarkable story. David talks about why he left the Church in 1980, his life outside the Church, deeply spiritual experiences, and his journey to return to the Church including receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood and his Endowment.
David talks about what he has learned, the wonderful people who love him and support him, his supportive Bishop and Ward, feeling he would be celibate but then dating a wonderful man who is also a devout member of the Church.
Thank you, David for being on the podcast and the courage to share your story. I was deeply moved learning of God’s hand in your life and your great heart and courageous decisions. Your story will help so many. On behalf of all our listeners, thank you!
If you'd like to reach David, please message him on Facebook Messenger (www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1475074077)
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend David Shill (RM Italy, 3rd-Year BYU Student, AZ native) joins us to share his story as a queer Latter-day Saint and someone who is very involved in the intersection of being at BYU as a queer student. He is co-founder of Cougar Pride Center (IG / FB @cougarpridecenter), an LGBTQ+ resource center for BYU students, and will soon be stepping into the role of Resource Advisor, which he discusses in today’s episode. Please consider following Cougar Pride Center on social media and donating by using the link in their bio. This will help connect more LGBTQ+ students to the resources they need.
David talks about BYU’s recently released (March 2022) “Report of the Campus Climate Survey on Sexual Assault” (see https://t.co/CI8AKoMIv5). There is a subset of questions (see page 6) regarding the experience of LGBTQ+ BYU students (compared to straight students) that is eye-opening and helpful to improve the experience for BYU LGBTQ+ students. David shares insights on this survey and suggestions—all supportive of church doctrine—to help us do better. I encourage everyone to read this report, which could be used to discuss this topic in our circles of influence.
David also offers suggestions to queer Latter-day Saints considering BYU and for parents and allies to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
David is a remarkable man with great insights on being a queer Latter-day Saint and how to better create Zion and gather Israel—for Israel includes queer Latter-day Saints. You can connect with David on Facebook (facebook.com/davidrshill/); on IG @davidrshill; and on Twitter @davidrshill.
Thank you, David, for being on the podcast and for your insights to help us do better.
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Clayton Rasmussen (Age 21, New York City RM) talks about figuring out his sexual orientation during Junior High and High School and then serving a mission. Clayton talks about his successful mission (including effectively using social media during Covid). Clayton talks about coming out to this mother and father after serving 18 months and then his Mission President (very positive experiences). Clayton talks about what led him to come out and they joy/love he felt afterwards. Clayton also shares some difficult mission experiences.
Not long after being home from his mission Clayton came out in this FB post: https://www.facebook.com/clayton.rasmussen.376/posts/575332603885993
Clayton decided to attend BYU—knowing that it can be a difficult place for queer Latter-day Saints. Clayton is out to all his roommates (good support) and have excellent family and friend support.
Clayton is involved in RaYnbow Collective (on IG @raynbow.collective) at BYU and talks about the groups work for support queer BYU students.
Thank you Clayton for being on the podcast. The world is a better place with you here and your contributions to make Zion. You are a good man!
Please Check Out My LGBTQ Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Adam Garrett (RM, BYU Grad, Physician Assistant, Active LDS) shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Adam came out publicly in June 2021 via this FB post: https://www.facebook.com/agarrett93/posts/10220746190700360
Adam talks about what he is learning, personal revelation he is receiving, scriptures and Church leader quotes that are helpful. Adam also shares great insights on the difference between shame and guilt and how to find hope and purpose.
Adam talks about the possible roads he can choose as a gay Latter-day Saint and how to best support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Adam includes helpful suggestions to allies—and for all of us to better come together to create Zion, and help to make sure everyone feels like they belong in an LDS congregation.
Thank you Adam for being on the podcast. Even after 500 episodes, I continue to be struck with additional insights that LGBTQ Latter-day Saints have about the gospel of Jesus Christ and how to better bring us together as the same human family. Your podcast will help many. You are a good man with a wonderful future.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Alexa Norton bravely shares the story the sudden and tragic death of her father while skiing in May 2017 (https://www.serenityfhs.com/obituaries/Daryl-Norton-2/).
Alexa is sharing her story to help others working through trauma and grief.
Alexa shares about the actual experience, what she’s learned, validating grief, finding people that relate, the importance of reaching out and dreams.
If you are dealing with the death of a loved one, Alexa’s story will help you. If you want more insights on how to help others walking this brutal road, Alexa’s insights will help you help others.
Please check out Alexa’s IG account @griefshine for her blog and other resources to others.
Thank you, Alexa for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story. I was glad to learn more about your good father Daryl—what a wonderful man—your effort honor him. Thank you for your efforts to bring hope and healing. You and Kohlmann are a wonderful couple.
Please check out my new book that talks about improving our culture: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love or amazon.com/dp/1462139566
This episode launches “Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture.” The book is available at Amazon amazon.com/dp/1462139566 (paperback and kindle) and Deseret Book (late March).
The purpose of the book is to improve our culture so more are able to connect with and benefit from our restored doctrine—and the healing and hope it brings into their lives. The chapters are:
Chapter 1: Improving our culture to be nonjudgmental and more loving Chapter 2: Measuring progress by coming to Christ, not callings Chapter 3: Women in the Church (written by Susan Hinckley and Cynthia Winward) Chapter 4: Ending pornography use Chapter 5: Hope-filled repentance Chapter 6: Creating better understanding of mental illness and suicide Chapter 7: Overcoming scrupulosity (religious OCD) Chapter 8: Variations in missionary service Chapter 9: Manifest love – even in politics (written by David L. Cook) Chapter 10: Ministering to those with questions
Your can read the introduction at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2aho5uzn6uin2k/Listen%20Learn%20and%20Love%2C%20Improving%20Latter-day%20Saint%20Culture%20Released%20March%202022.pdf?dl=0
Thank you for all who made this book possible—I hope it helps us better create Zion.
My friend Smith Alley braving shares his 5-year experience with pornography—why it started, why he didn’t tell anyone, and what finally helped him stop, and why he is sharing this story. Smith also helps us understand the role of our Savior and His atonement, his parents, why we need to see ourselves as enough now.
Smith talks to those who are suicidal to give them hope and perspective. Please stay my friends.
Smith talks about deciding to talk about his pornography use which has led to speaking to 1000s and 1000s across the United States and to start a non-profit (https://www.livelifebigger.org/) and a company called PROTECHT (https://www.protechtstrong.com/) with a goal to kids all over the world.
You can connect with Smith on IG at @live.life.bigger and @protechtstrong
Thank you, Smith for being on the podcast and your life-saving work. I was deeply moved hearing your story. You are doing great work to bring hope, healing and better tools and understanding to help others.
Please check out my new book that has a chapter about solving pornography: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love or amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friends Dr. Tyler Lefevor (Utah State Professor) and Sam Skidmore (Utah State PhD Student) join us to talk about their new research to help Ward/Stake Leaders better support their LGBTQ members.
If you are interested in learning more about Tyler and Sam’s research, you can find more at www.4optionssurvey.com or www.lgbtqmormonresearch.com. Tyler and Sam have also put out a one-page handout of “best practices” for ward and stake councils in ministering to LGBTQ+ members that you can find at usu.box.com/s/vpjyc7pl1yfolcm66olic0k746mytv89. They are currently recruiting LGBTQ+ Latter-day Saints to be part of a 10-year study to understand how gender, sexuality, and faith impact health over time, which you can learn more at www.4optionssurvey.com. They are also looking to share what they have learned about ministering to LGBTQ+ members with ward and stake councils, which you can learn more about at lgbtqmormonresearch.com/participate-in-research/.
I wish I had read their research before a gay Latter-day Saint walked into my office in 2014 to share his story. It would have helped me better lift his burden versus possible add to his burdens because of my lack of training.
I encourage local leaders, parents and all church members to listen to this episode and connect with their research (https://usu.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0wZctI2sKCGVhhs) It will help you to better minister to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints—giving them more support, understanding and hope. When we know better, we do better.
Thank you, Tyler and Sam for your great work. Look forward to learning more from both of you!
My friend Jaxon George (chemistry student at Dixie State University, RM) bravely shares his story. Jaxon starts with his childhood including a brother with Spina Bifida and Lincoln logs. Jaxon then opens up about gay pornography use in his youth and realizing he is gay (Jaxon points out that pornography use didn’t make him gay).
In High School, Jaxon worked tirelessly (swim team, college classes, etc.) to kind of escape and/or overcompensate for the realities of his life. That dissonance led Jaxon to consider suicide during high school.
Jaxon shares how he was able to get out of that dark spot and find hope and purpose in his life along with the love and hope he felt from his Heavenly Father and Savior. Jaxon talks about starting to come out in High School (mostly positive experience), helping to ease the dissonance as he became authentic.
Jaxon talks about the role of poetry and authentic connection with men to help end his pornography use.
Jaxon talks about his decision to serve a mission, his mission in Japan being cut short by COVID, and his hope and plans for the future.
If you are in a dark place—if you feel no one is like you or walking a similar road—if you feel suicidal, please listen to this podcast. Jaxon’s story—based on gospel principles—will help you!
Thank you, Jaxon for your courage to be on the podcast. Respect for being real, honest and vulnerable. Your story will help many. You have a great life ahead of you.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Dr Terryl Givens (Senior Research Fellow at Maxwell Institute at BYU) joins us to talk about his new book “The Door of Faith”. Here is a description of the book: “In The Doors of Faith, Terryl Givens teaches that the surest route to a meaningful and enduring faith is a “witting” understanding of Jesus Christ and His gospel. Givens bears a strong personal witness of many unique aspects of the restored gospel, demonstrating that the Restoration provides us with the most morally compelling, intellectually satisfying, and aesthetically appealing account of the universe and each person’s place within it. He shows that such knowledge is a powerful catalyst to a more profound appreciation of Jesus Christ’s love, grace, and Atonement.”
Brother Givens also talks about the importance of President Russel M. Ballard’s CES talk and the shift in how we teach the gospel and answer questions (see www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/article/evening-with-a-general-authority/2016/02/the-opportunities-and-responsibilities-of-ces-teachers-in-the-21st-century )
Thank you for being on the podcast Brother Givens and all your contributions to help us build Zion—and better understand the power and expansive potential of our restored doctrine to create Zion and bring more hope and healing.
The book is available at www.amazon.com/Doors-Faith-Terryl-Givens/dp/0842500553; and deseretbook.com/p/doors-of-faith-maxwell-institute-ppr)
My friend Tonya Baker Miller (Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Active LDS, Married Mother of 4) joins us to share insights and principles to heal (and help others) who have experienced church/leader pain/trauma. She explores the possibility that what we often refer to as "faith crisis" could more accurately be framed as "trust crises", and talks about academic differences between faith and trust.
She also has helpful insights on how the family can be a safe and healing place when trust in the Church is damaged. And how to keep the family full of hope, support and understanding even if some members of the family are not participating in the Church.
Tonya’s story of the being the mother of a gay son is on the Church’s web site. There is a video about the family, and essays written by Tonya, her son Andy, and their bishop at the time. The video and essays were included in the original "Mormon and Gay" website that was released in 2016 and can be found at:
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/videos/tonyas-story www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/videos/andys-story www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/videos/robins-story
Andy was also interviewed on this podcast last year; his episode is #382.
I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast. So full of insights, stories and scripture to help bring us together and improve the culture and discussion in our congregations. Thank you Tonya for being on the podcast and your great work!
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
Please check out my new book about improving LDS culture: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love or amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Alexander Solis La Torre (Worldwide Unified Co-founder, RM, active LDS, senior BYU student) joins us to share powerful and thoughtful insights on fostering belonging and creating safe spaces in our congregations.
This podcast is an expanded version of the devotional Alexander gave on High Five Live: “A LONGING FOR BELONGING: Keys to Building a Safe Community & Becoming a Safe Person” (see https://www.facebook.com/HiFiveLive/videos/419121603010367), which is one of the finest sermons on this topic I’ve ever heard.
Alexander is a co-founder and admin of Worldwide Unified, the interfaith Facebook group that gathered more than half a million people from 32 religions and 99 countries in one week to fast in April 2020, following President Nelson’s invitation in General Conference (check out https://www.facebook.com/groups/534352464165662).
If you want to improve the culture of your congregation to be a safe place for everyone, please listen to this podcast. Alexander has gospel-based principles and insights that help accomplish this goal. And if you don’t feel you belong, Alexander—who also feels this way at times—will help you and give you more hope.
If you’d like to read Alexander’s notes from the podcast, please this Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0ha2ke1aol4eoo/A%20Longing%20for%20Belonging%20by%20Alexander%20Solis%20La%20Torre%20Episode%20500.pdf?dl=0
Thank you, Alexander, for being on the podcast and all your great work in our Church to teach out how to build safe places so that more people feel like they are needed and belong.
My friend Iese Wilson (RM, Age 28, Graduating BYU-H) bravely shares his story. Iese starts with reaching out to the President of BYU-Hawaii to share his story as a gay student and the resulting positive meeting (along with others from BYU-H administration) that occurred.
Iese also talks about the many closeted BYU-H students who have reached out to him and shares about the complexity of coming another country/culture and being LGBTQ in The Church.
Iese also talks about his supportive Bishop and Stake President which led to a packed Stake Fireside about supporting LGBTQ Latter-day Saints (where Becky, Scott, and their son Xian Mackintosh spoke).
This led to Iese’s story being shared in the official BYU-Hawaii magazine (https://issuu.com/kealakai/docs/whole.nobleeds/48).
Iese then shares his story of coming out to himself, friends, family and in a Church talk; the things he is learning; the personal revelation he is receiving, and thoughts about his future. Thank you Iese for being on the podcast and all your great work to build harmony, create Zion and bring us together as the same human family.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Brooke Anderson (RM, Masters student at BYU, Author) shares her story. Brooke talks about her journey to understand and then accept her sexual orientation (which included a annulled marriage).
Brooke talks about working through anger with God and the Church and why she remains a committed and believing member of the Church. She also talks about why she is sharing her sexual orientation with others including her book “Through My Lens” available at Barns and Noble (https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/through-my-lens-brooke-anderson/1140786213)
Brooke talks about helpful friends and ward members who have supported her in her journey and what we can do to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints as we work to create Zion.
Thank you Brooke for being on the podcast and your courage to share you story. You are awesome and our world better place with you and your contributions. I encourage everyone to check out this episode and Brooke’s book.
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friends Brittany and Maeve Sechrist (married with three children) share their story with Maeve coming out to Brittany as transgender in July of 2021. Maeve shares feeling gender dysphoria for many years and what led her to finally come out to her wife.
Brittany shares her reaction and subsequent journey to love, learn and support Maeve and how their marriage is strong, healthy and full of hope.
Brittany and Maeve share the things they are learning, commitment to the Church, personal revelation, expectations for allies, and hope for their future. Their story is a beautiful love story.
If you want to learn about and better support transgender Latter-day Saints, please listen to this podcast. It helped me and I believe will help you. If you are transgender and need hope for your future, this podcast will help you.
Thank you Brittany and Maeve for being on the podcast and the courage to share your story. Great job my friends!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Rebecca Snedegar (Active LDS, RM, Mother) bravely shares her story of her 7 year marriage ending when her husband Ammon came out as gay. Rebecca talks about both the pain of having her marriage end and compassion for her husband (who was always faithful) as they both concluded their best paths forward were to separate.
Rebecca (who remains friends with her former husband and his family) talks about how her testimony of the Church remains strong and growing, how she is handling the divorce, the role of therapy and her hopes for the future.
Rebecca also talks about The Current Bush (talk by Hugh B Brown https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/1973/01/the-currant-bush?lang=eng) and how this process is helping her be stronger and grow in ways that are part of her mortal plan.
If you are going through a divorce (or wanting to help someone on this road), please listen to Rebecca’s podcast. She has wonderful and helpful insights. And if you are wondering where God is during a divorce (or not saving a marriage), Rebecca’s insights will help you.
Thank you Rebecca for being on the podcast and your insights to keep us together as the same human family.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Brandon Kellogg joins us to talk about his new book “Honorably Excused” (available at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P8LY87Y/).
Brandon talks about his own journey to serve a mission (check out Episode 266 for more of his story) and how we should create more support and understanding for Latter-day Saints who feel their path is to not serve a mission.
I encourage everyone to check out this episode and Brandon’s book.
Thank you Brandon for being on the podcast and your insights to improve our culture so more feel welcome, a feeling of belonging and needed.
My friend Justice Burt shares his story of coming out as gay in middle school (which was a generally positive experience), being atheist/agnostic during middle/school early high school, and then his journey to join the Church. It is a unique and remarkable story.
Justice talks about being gay and how he originally felt that was not compatible to being in a Christian religion. Justice talks about his friends and their love and support that gradually created a shift in Justice to be open to learning more. That eventually led to Justice’s baptism in December 2019. It is a powerful conversation story.
Justice also shares, during the isolation of COVID, the experience of falling back into bad habits and coming close to leaving the Church altogether. Despite that, Justice talks about how he was always able to feel the Spirit and how he has been able to return to full activity in the Church. Justice closes with his “queer testimony”.
Thank you Justice for being on the podcast. You are a great man with tremendous courage to be honest, open and authentic. Respect. You story will help so many and you have a great life ahead of you!
My friend Taylor Kerby (active LDS, Two Masters Degrees, PhD candidate) talks about his new book called “Scrupulous: My Obsessive Compulsion for God” which is at Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Scrupulous-My-Obsessive-Compulsion-God-ebook/dp/B09NFLLPMD).
In the podcast Taylor bravely talks about his own journey with Scrupulosity discussing what it is, how it put him in a difficult place, and what he did to overcome it.
Taylor, who has a Masters Degree in Religion from Clairmont, goes further to talk about what we can do to help more Latter-days Saints feel at home, create Zions, and feel good enough in our congregations—and what we can do to better create Zions. I was deeply moved by Taylor’s insights into our restored doctrine and Christ’s teachings—and how to apply those in our own lives and the loves of others to bring hope and healing.
I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast and read Taylor’s book. Taylor has wonderful and helping insights. I learned much listening to him.
Episode 492: Ginger Price, Resigned from Church, Positive Experience Sharing Her Journey with Stake Presidency/Bishops
My friend Ginger McKnight Price (married mother of four, RM) shares her journey with serving a mission (good experience) and then the events that led her to resign from the Church in 2018. Ginger is open, vulnerable and honest.
She is not asking others to leave or not believe in the Church but shares the pain of having her faith shift and losing her community and a sense of belonging.
Ginger talks about a social media post of an active Latter-day Saint saying kind things about those who leave the church that led to a friendship of understanding. Ginger then moved to from Alaska to Utah and was surprised to learn she was moving into the stake boundaries of this Latter-day Saint, Ed Hegemann who is serving as Stake President and is the Utah State Institute Director.
President Heggeman invited Ginger to share her experience with the entire Stake Presidency and 8 Bishops. Ginger later wrote: “For the first time in twenty years, my perception of Mormon men shifted for the better. As I shared my story and answered questions, I felt nothing but a strong sense of love and genuine interest in how these men could do better at loving and treating others who are, or have experienced, a loss of belief in Mormonism.” She adds “I hoped for, but wasn’t quite sure just how cathartic and healing this hour and a half experience would be. The cleansing that come was absolutely purifying”.
See Ginger’s post on this experience here: https://www.facebook.com/ginger.mcknightprice/posts/10160234772359575
Thank you President Hegmann for your leadership, ability to listen, and making this healing experience possible.
Thank you Ginger for being on the podcast and having the courage to share your experience. Your story helps Church members better minister to those with questions about their faith or step away from the Church. You are strong, honest, vulnerable and have a great heart full of love and grace. You continue to make the world a better place and help bring us together as the same human family.
My friend Dr. Lacey (she/her; married mother of two) shares her story as a queer Latter-day Saint. Lacey talks about growing up as a Latter-day Saint and remaining a practicing member of the Church, following her impressions to change her career path (which includes getting a masters degree and PhD in marriage and family therapy), finding her husband Evan (who loves and supports Lacey), coming out as queer, and then opening a queer clinical practice for queer client.
Dr. Lacey also shared helpful insights for Latter-day Saint parents raising LGBTQIA+ children and the role therapists (practicing ethical therapy) have in helping their children find their best path forward.
If you are LGBTQIA+ or a parent of an LGBTQIA+ child, please listen to this podcast. Dr. Lacey has wonderful insights and experiences to help us all do better. You can reach Dr. Lacey at https://www.celebratetherapy.org or lacey@celebratetherapy.org. You can also find a directory of Queer Mormon Therapists online at https://www.queermormontherapists.com.
Thank you for being on the podcast Dr. Bagley and your good work (as well as everyone at Celebrate Therapy) to help bring more understanding and hope.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Jackson Jensen (age 22, RM from Lubbock Texas) shares his story. Jackson starts bravely sharing his story being a survivor of sexual abuse at age 8. Jackson, with a prompting from the Spirit, at age 16 told his family about his sexual abuse and how freeing and helpful it was to finally open up about this traumatic experience.
Concurrent with telling his family about this sexual abuse, Jackson is privately working to understand his sexual orientation. The journey continued during his mission in Texas. Jackson shares his conclusion that being gay is not because he was sexually abused. There are two different parts of Jackson’s story. This is consistent with other stories shared in my book (Chapter 3/False Statement 3; link below)
Jackson also shares what he is learning and why is come out publicly in March 2021 (see https://www.facebook.com/jackson.jensen.12/posts/3335259683242812) and his hopes for the future.
You can connect with Jackson on Instagram @jacksonterral and Facebook (www.facebook.com/jackson.jensen.12)
Thank you Jackson for the courage to share you story. Respect. You are a good man, doing good things with your God-given talents and doing much to make this world a better place.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
n this episode, Benée and Heidi share their experience to help us better understand the resources available in Utah to help those struggling with suicide ideation. In particular, they explore resources that can help faith climates develop a culture of safety, help-seeking and hope. Research shows that talking about suicide reduces stigma and risk associated with suicide ideation. QPR Training in faith settings is a great way to help others understand their role in suicide prevention, especially how to have these crucial and needed conversations in our congregations and families.
Benée and Heidi and also share practical insights for all of us to help those who are considering suicide and for those who are currently experiencing suicide ideation. If you have lost a loved one to suicide, know your not alone and hear some tips on how to cope.
Please listen to this podcast. I learned so much from these two remarkable women. We need to have these conversations and be unified in our efforts to better support those who are considering suicide.
Resources mentioned in this podcast can be found on the following websites:
NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness ttps://www.namiut.org/)
NAMI Utah’s Peer Mentor Line: 801-323-9900 Monday-Friday 9 am-4 pm Live On Utah (https://liveonutah.org/)
LiveOn: Finding a mental health professional Search for treatment and services at the SAMHSA Treatment directory – https://findtreatment.samhsa.gov/ or https://findtreatment.gov/
Psychology Today – find a therapist, treatment, etc. Sort resources by zip code, race, ethnicity, mental or substance use need, and more. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us
Suicide Prevention for Faith Leaders: (https://liveonutah.org/faith/)
Utah Suicide Prevention Coalition: If you are interested in joining the Utah Suicide Prevention Coalition, which meets on the 2nd Monday every other month beginning January 10th from 1 pm-2:30 via Zoom. If interested, reach out to me via email to be added to our email list. (https://liveonutah.org/contact/)
QPR Training (https://liveonutah.org/resources/trainings/), (https://www.namiut.org/our-programs/for-families-caregivers/qpr-suicide-prevention-training)
Utah Prevention Coalition Association: www.utahprevention.org
Grief Support: Caring Connections support groups
My friend Spencer H. shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Spencer talks about the difficult and dark times—especially in his early twenties—trying to date women and reconcile the complexity of his life.
Spencer talks about opening up to his parents and siblings and how they walked together with him on his journey. Their guidance and encouragement helped him seek personal revelation for his path forward which led to hope, a strong relationship with God, and clarity. Spencer is in a great place emotionally and spiritually and full of hope for his future—a future that includes plans to marry a man and stay close to Heavenly Father and Christ.
Spencer has great insights about using gospel principles to seek personal revelation and managing the paradoxes of being gay and a Latter-day Saint. You can also check out Spencer's blog https://soyouremormonandgay.blogspot.com/2021/01/spencers-story.html)
Thank you Spencer for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. And thanks to your wonderful family. You have a great life ahead of you!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Jonathan Rogers (Married father of two) joins us from his home in Georgia to share some of his story. Jonathan starts by bravely sharing working through worthiness issues in his teens which put him in a dark place feeling outside of God’s love and full of shame. Jonathan talks about the love, kindness and compassion he would give to his younger self to eliminate needless shame and self-loathing.
Jonathan talks about his road to listen to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their often painful experiences. Jonathan talks about his love for our LGBTQ friends and what we can do to better support them.
Jonathan talks about his faith-crisis and how he is navigating being an active Latter-day Saint and holding space for everyone on their respective paths.
Jonathan, who is a moderator of Mormons Building Bridges, is working hard to building bridges and bring more understanding to see everyone as members of the same human family.
Thank you Jonathan for being on the podcast and all your great work to bring hope and healing. You are a good man and friend.
My friend bj Nelson (RM, active LDS, married with 4 children and 14 grandchildren) shares her story of over fifty years of gender dysphoria. bj shares the decision to finally come out to her wife Donna in April 2017 and her time in the closet “expired”.
bj talks about the role of Encircle to provide hope and healing.
bj talks about the personal revelation she is receiving from her Heavenly Father and how she believes He loves all of her—and how bj would not longer choose a different road.
bj talks about her supportive wife, their love story and how they are walking this road together.
bj talks about a supportive ward and being welcome in Relief Society.
bj has a long view (over fifty years) of being transgender and has insights, suggestions and principles to help other transgender Latter-day Saints (and their families).
If you’d like to learn more about transgender Latter-day Saints, how to be more supportive, and how to value their contributions, please listen to bj’s story. bj and her story is helping us better create Zion.
Thank you bj for being on the podcast and sharing your story.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Dr. Susan Madsen (married mother of four and two grandchildren) joins us to talk about her new book called “A Future Only God Can See For You: A Guide for Teen and Young Adult Women and Preparing to Lead” (https://www.amazon.com/Future-Only-God-Can-See/dp/1462140521).
This is an important book for LDS women to see and act on their God given potential and mission to lead. Susan shares insights from her own journey as a Latter-day Saint women following her impressions ‘to not stay in the box’ on her path when led her to a doctorate degree, being a college professor, author, worldwide speaker, and the Founding Director of the Utah Women and Leadership Project (https://www.usu.edu/uwlp/).
If you are a Latter-day Saint women and want to increase your hope and vision, please read this book. If you are male and want to better amplify the voices and use the gifts of women to build Zion, please read this book. It will help all of us do better.
Thank you Susan for being on the podcast and your great work. You are making a difference for good in so many areas.
My friend Frasier Perez, who grew up in Temecula California, shares his story of being an early release missionary from the McAllen, Texas mission. Frasier, during his first transfer, shares realizing he was experiencing something different than normal homesickness as this emotional health declined which led to thoughts of suicide. Frasier bravely opened up with those thoughts to his mission leaders, companion, and family which led to the help he needed and deserved.
During his second transfer, once things didn’t improve, Frasier returned home.
Frasier talks about what people in his circle did to help him feel welcome and loved and offers suggestions on what we can do to improve our culture to be more loving and accepting.
Frasier has deep peace that he did all that he could do and is square with God. Frasier is now looking forward focusing on his bright future and sharing his story to give hope and more understanding.
Thank you Frasier for sharing your story. It will help so many. Great job my friend
Please check out my new book that has a chapter about supporting early-release missionaries: deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-love or amazon.com/dp/1462139566
My friend Barry Donakey (BYU Senior, BYU English/Spanish Studies Major) shares his story. Barry (who graduated from Timpanogos High School in 2016) talks about “when did you know,” managing expectations for a heteronormative marriage, and coming out to family and friends (great support).
Barry talks about the need to improve Church culture to talk about supporting LGBTQ members and hearing their stories in church-supported settings. Barry shares his experience with the LGBTQ+ & Allies workshop series at the Utah Valley University (UVU) LDS Institute and how this can be scaled into our local areas of influence.
Barry shares insights and principles from the scriptures that give him direction and hope for his future and also how he manages the frustrations he feels at times as a gay Latter-day Saint who is also fully active in the Church.
Thank you Barry for being you and for your insights to help us better create Zion. You are a good man and your voice and perspective is so needed and helpful. Thank you for being on the podcast.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Jaime Clemmer, married mother of 4, joins us via Zoom from her home in Virginia to share the story their 10-year-old son Sawyer’s sudden death that started with a seizure at school.
Jaime talks about her book (at Deseret Book and Amazon) called Heartbroken, But Not Broken (www.amazon.com/Heartbroken-but-Broken-Jaime-Clemmer/dp/1462140165/ or deseretbook.com/p/heartbroken-but-not-broken)
Jaime writes: “We live in a culture that seldom speaks opening about grief. In some instances, we are even embarrassed to show our sorrow. Why are we ashamed to cry? Why do we feel that sharing sadness in unacceptable? How can we effectively mourn with those who mourn if no one is willing to share their heartache?”
We need to improve Latter-day Saint culture about how we handle grief and trauma. Jaimie is helping us to do this so we can better love and support each other. Please listen to this podcast—I learned so much from Jaimie. Please read and share her book.
You can learn more about Jaime and Sawyer at https://www.heartbrokenbutnotbroken.com/
Thank you Jaime for being on the podcast. You are helping so many. And we are all so sorry that Sawyer is gone.
My friend Gretchen Norman Evans (married mother of one, active LDS) shares the story losing her dear brother Jacob Norman to suicide while he attended BYU in May of 2019. She continues by sharing the story of losing her dear sister Alanna Norman Koons and her twin 18-month old daughters Ruby and June in a car crash in July of 2019.
Gretchen and her family (a strong, open and very close family) are living with immense pain of the reality of losing so many family members.
Gretchen shares thoughts on why someone becomes suicidal and what we can do to help them—along with insights to help family members when a someone completes suicide. Gretchen also has important and helpful ideas on how to grieve, how to allow others to grieve, and how to improve our Church culture to allow people to grieve, be real and help them heal.
Gretchen bravely shares how she is feeling, what she is learning, what she is doing to be in a safe and sustainable place and how she is finding hope for the future.
If you have lost of family member and are dealing with immense pain, Gretchen’s insights will help you. If you want to help others dealing with loss, Gretchen’s perspectives will help you.
I felt we were on sacred ground as we recorded this podcast. Thank you Gretchen for having the courage to share your story. It honors all your family and helps us do better. You are helping so many.
My friend Steve Haworth, who joined the church in Sept 2020 at age 41, shares his story. Steve, who came out at age 17, has been looking for a church that provides the best path for Steve’s desire to find a home as a gay believer in Heavenly Father and Jesus.
Steve shares his positive experience with his missionaries (told them he was gay early in the teaching process), why our restored doctrine resonates with him, how he is navigating being gay and LDS, and how we can better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Steve has started a website at http://www.zionlgbtq.net to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Thank you Steve for being on the podcast and sharing your remarkable and faith building story. You are helping us build Zion. Your story and ministry is helping many!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Pedro Munoz, age 35, joins us from his home in Colombia to share his remarkable story. Pedro shares knowing he was attracted to men during his teenage years, trying to date girls, and feeling broken and damaged. During this difficult years where Pedro worried if he really was gay he would be forced to live his life on the street in this life and in hell in the next life.
Pedro talks about finding hope through his relationship with Heavenly Father and then finding the missionaries at age 24 where he gained a testimony of unique and hopeful doctrine that came through the restoration (especially the plan of salvation that have him purpose).
A year after his baptism, Pedro served a mission in Mexico (great experience).
Following his mission, Pedro shares moving to BYU-Idaho and trying to date women. That led to more feelings of being damaged and broken all while being active in the Church and attending the Temple weekly. Pedro talks about surviving a suicide attempt and then getting the clinical help that allowed him to be more honest with himself and others about his sexuality.
Pedro, then talks about moving back to Colombia and feelings that he would resign his church membership. However, Pedro felt impressed to give his local Ward a try and is having a good experience including coming out to his current Bishop (very good experience).
Pedro does a remarkable job on sharing his experience which includes consistently reaching out to his Heavenly Father for a path forward when he felt there was no way forward.
If you are LGBTQ and want more hope for your future, please listen to Pedro’s story. It will help you. If you an ally and want to better support our LGBTQ friends, Pedro story will give you insights.
Thank you my friend Pedro for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You are a great man, human and the world is a better place with you in it. Thank you for sharing your story!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group below.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend and podcast host Brock Bevell (married active Latter-day Saint) shares his long journey to end his pornography and opioid addictions. Brock, a retired Mesa Arizona Police Officer, shares how pornography use and then opioid use came into his life. Brock then shares the hard work (along with Christ) to put these addictions behind him. Brock is honest, direct, candid with his story --- which is full of hope and real-life principles to help others.
Brock hosts a podcast called Chase the Vase (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chase-the-vase/id1543306831) with stories of others putting addictions behind them. Brock (along with Max Hall and Blu Robinson) co-host Agents of Recovery podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-agents-of-recovery-podcast/id1550462911). Please check out these podcasts.
You can connect with Brock on IG at https://www.instagram.com/brockbevell/ and on FB at https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014854295625. To learn more about Brock’s approach to killing your pornography addiction, check out www.striplingwarriorchallenge.com.
If you are working to solve a porn or opioid addiction and may have lost hope, please listen to Brock’s podcast. He will give you tools and vision to move forward. If you are a parent of local leader working to help others, Brock’s podcast/work with help you.
Thank you Brock for being on the podcast and your life mission to help others through your story. Respect for being you and your great work.
My friend Shayla Slaymaker (Lawyer, Married, Age 29) shares her story about losing both her brothers to suicide. Her younger brother Chance died by suicide at age 14 in 2013, and her older brother Travis died by suicide at age 26 in 2016.
Shayla, who has been on this immensely painful road for 8 years, is sharing her story in hopes of helping others who have lost a loved one to suicide. Shayla is also sharing her story to give hope and more tools/perspective for those who are struggling and may be considering suicide.
If you have lost a loved one to suicide, are suicidal, or want to help someone who has lost a loved one to suicide, please listen to this podcast. It will give you tools, perspectives and ideas to help.
Thank you Shayla for your courage to share your story and be on the podcast. You are helping so many!
My friend Eli Wood shares his story for the first time publicly. Eli talks about growing up in an active Idaho LDS family and navigating his way as a gay Latter-day Saint. Eli talks about being happy but knowing he was different from other boys. Eli, who is currently a flight attendant, talks about trying to date girls and the emotional challenges of that road.
Eli talks about his time at BYU-Idaho, including great experiences and very difficult experiences (hearing difficult experiences helps us do better). Here he learned part of the reason why he wasn't meant to serve a proselytizing mission and how God will use you where you are to accomplish your life mission. Eli talks about his deep, helpful and meaningful relationship with his Heavenly Parents and the personal revelation and hope he is receiving. Eli, who is planning on being a marriage and family therapist, talks about his hopes for the future and how we can better come together as the same human family.
This is a powerful podcast. If you are an LGBTQ Latter-day Saint looking for hope, Eli's story will help you! If you are a parent or local leader, Eli's insights will help you--when we know better we do better.
Thank you Eli for being on the podcast. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Stephanie Povey (married mother of three daughters and two granddaughters) joins us to share her story. Stephanie starts with her own childhood and not fitting the cultural norms while growing up in a small Utah town. She was called a "tomboy" because she wanted to take part in activities that were considered only for boys. Being told she couldn't and shouldn't want to, led to feelings of shame and not belonging. Stephanie reveals some of her personal "anchoring experiences" that allowed her to find her way forward. She is sharing her story in her upcoming book entitled, "You Can't Play, You're a Girl".
Stephanie goes on to tell the story of her gay daughter Hannah, who came out to her six years ago at age16 who now at age 22 has a steady girlfriend. Stephanie talks about what she is learning, the personal growth she has experienced and insights of being a parent of a gay daughter. She and her husband Reed are deeply committed to both the church and keeping their family circle strong and together.
Stephanie has shared her story on her sister Tammy Hill's website who is a LFMT at https://www.tammyhill.com/responding-to-your-childs-coming-out/
If you are a parents of a LGBTQ child, please listen to this podcast. Stephanie’s message will fill your heart with peace and hope. This podcast will also help you better love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and be a better disciple of Christ.
Thank you Stephanie for being on the podcast and your steady/faith filled voice. The Povey family is awesome.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Wes Haws shares his story. Wes talks about coming out as gay after serving a mission to his future wife. They decided to get married and that marriage lasted 11 years. During these years, Wes survived a brutal attached in Ethiopia which resulted in difficult health and financial challenges. Wes rebuilt his career and now owns Blue Zoon (https://bluezoo.us/). Wes also talks about finding a way to move forward and the work he has done (including therapy) to accept and love himself.
Wes talks about how/why his married ended and his subsequent excommunication (positive and loving experience for Wes). Wes talks about his hopes for the future and his respect and support for all path that LGBTQ Latter-day Saints take. Wes also talks about being your best personal self before deciding the best path if you are LGBTQ and LDS.
Thank you for being on the podcast Wes. I think it helps LGBTQ Latter-day Saints to hear a variety of stories. I invite each LGBTQ Latter-day Saint to write their own story—and hearing a variety of stories provides principles and insights to better write your story.
You are a good man Wes doing your best on a complicated road. Thanks for sharing your story. It helps bring us together as the same human family.
My friend Meghan Decker(from High School) shares her story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Meghan and her husband David are the parents of 5 daughters and 15 grandchildren. Meghan is active in the Church and is a wonderful marriage.
Meghan shares her journey to come out to herself and then her husband and family in her 50’s. Meghan talks about how coming out reduced shame, helped her be authentic and improved her emotional health.
Meghan shares how her marriage works, why she decided to come out, her family response, and her relationship with the Church.
Meghan wrote Reaching for Hope: An LDS Perspective on Recovering from Depression 22 years ago. She is releasing a new book in April 2022 called Tender Leaves of Hope: Finding Belonging as LGBTQ Latter-day Saint Women, which shares her experience as a gay women in the Church and also includes insights from 40 other gay or bisexual LDS women. You can find her website at meghandecker.com
Meghan's story is unique because of her long-view of so many aspects of being LDS and LGBTQ, including being grounded in her relationship with her Heavenly Father and the Savior.
If you are LGBTQ, Meghan’s insights will help you. If you are looking to be a better LDS parent or local leader, Meghan’s insights and observation will help you. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this podcast. Also, check out Megan’s insightful talk at the North Star Fireside on "Peace in Christ" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM4dXybUAaY
Thank you Meghan for being on the podcast. Your work is helping so many. Honored to call you friend.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Peter Fillerup (age 31, RM, Architectural & Interior Designer), shares his story. Upon returning home from his successful mission in Los Angeles, Peter spent about ten years trying to date women. Peter talks ‘waiting for the attraction to happen’ and concludes with feeling ‘I’m screwed up”.
In late 2020, Peter started to consider he is gay. That journey involved his family, personal revelation, and deep reflection. Peter shares his story of coming out in 2021 and how much better he feels in all aspects of his life. He no longer feels “screwed up” and has a better relationship with his Heavenly Parents.
This is a deeply moving and insightful podcast. Peter’s story will help so many. You are a good man Peter and I’m honored to have you.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Colby Majors (mid 30’s, convert, RM, going through a divorce, father of one) shares his journey. Colby talks about knowing he was gay in his teenage years, joining the Church at age 17 and serving a mission, and then getting married. Colby talks about why, after 15 years of marriage, he felt he needed to finally come out as gay to his wife and family. That reality has led Colby and his wife to separate and are headed to a divorce
Colby talks about his love for his Heavenly Parents and the Savior in his life as he moved forward. Colby talks about doing his best to be honest and make the best decisions possible as a gay Latter-say Saint. Colby story (like many LGBTQ Latter-day Saints) is still unfolding. But Colby has hopes for his future and have wonderful insights to help other LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and to help keep us together as the same human family.
Thank you my friend Colby for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You are brave and courageous. Hearing your story helps us better understand and support each other.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Want to develop church-supported LGBTQ activities in your local area? Please join our FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143
My friend Dr. Mark White (active Latter-day Saint, Director, MFT Doctoral Programs, Department of Marriage and Family Sciences, Northcentral University [NCU]) joins us to talk about a research study designed to better understand the experience of current/former LGBTQ Latter-day Saints).
Dr. White is joined by the other members of the research team, Dr. Beth Patrick (Associate Professor of Marriage and Family Sciences at NCU) and Tyra Williams (PhD student in Marriage and Family Therapy). Beth (lesbian/queer identified) and Tyra (queer identified) share some of their journey and how they are navigating their faith communities with wonderful insights. All three talk about the purpose and scope of the study.
If you are LGBTQ and a current/former Latter-day Saint, I encourage you to spend 30-40 minutes to complete the online research project at MyCoreTruths.org (anonymous) and please share this link with others. Good research helps us know how to better meet the needs of our LGBTQ friends.
Thank you Mark, Beth and Tyra for being on the podcast and your great work.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Joseph Stith (active LDS, Convert, Former Marine, RM from Houston, Former President of Northstar, early 60s) shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Joseph talks about his healing journey with his Savior that first started with a desire to change his sexual orientation and later changed to accepting his sexual orientation. Joseph shares knowing he was gay while serving in the military and throughout his mission, his marriage and during his service as a Bishop. Joseph shares the deeply spiritual road resulting in eventually fully coming out to himself and then his dear wife. It is a deeply moving and powerful story centered on the Savior and the Temple that ultimately strengthened his marriage and his discipleship. If you are a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint or someone wanting to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, I believe you will enjoy this podcast. Joseph, having traveled this road for decades, has the long-view to help others new to this road. Thank you Joseph for being on the podcast and your unique life mission to bring hope and healing to others. Honored to have you on the podcast.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Joey Sheppard and Dr. Sarah Coyne talk about their new research project to better understand how church culture impacts LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Their qualitative research (interviews) is open for new participants who are 1) 18 and older; 2)LGBTQ+; 3) Current or former Latter-day Saints. The goal of the research (supported by BYU) is to better understand how to improve the experience for LGBTQ members in our Church.
You can learn more about the research project in their flyer posted here or by emailing LGBTQ.BYUstudy@gmail.com
Take the survey to see if you qualify: https://byu.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6SDF8GLegAWyOBU
Joey (who is genderqueer) and Sarah share helpful insights to better minister to and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Thank you, Joey and Sarah, for being on the podcast and your groundbreaking work. Your voices and work are very needed. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Spencer Cottle joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Spencer, who grew up in Williamsburg Virginia, talks about coming out in 2018 to his bishop and parents (good experience) prior to his successful mission to Madagascar.
Once home from his mission, Spencer talks about needing to face and address the realities of figuring out his future as a gay Latter-day Saint. That led to deeply spiritual experience that Spencer shares on the podcast and feelings about his best path forward.
Spencer, who sang in the BYU Choir at October General Conference, also talks about the excellent support he is receiving from parents, family and roommates.
Thank you Spencer for being on the podcast. You are a remarkable talented man with a wonderful future. Thank you for sharing your story and helpful insights to help bring us together. You have a great life ahead of you!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Scott and Molly Hixson (married for 28 years, parents of five children, and one grandchild) join us to share their story. About 15 years ago, Scott came out to Molly with his same-sex attraction.
Scott and Molly talk about the things they did during the last 15 years to keep their marriage together. The effort significantly accelerated over the past year as they did the hard work needed to bring their marriage into a very healthy and sustainable place. Their story is a beautiful love story.
Scott and Molly talk about the personal revelation they received on why to share their story in a broad way to give hope, perspective and healing for others.
If you are looking to improve your marriage (straight or mixed-orientation), or improve your relationships with others, please listen to this podcast. They share helpful and valuable insights. If you are looking to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints or are LGBTQ, this podcast will help you.
Thank you Scott and Molly for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Spencer Thompson joins us to talk about his insightful recent Liahona Article which talks about his journey from shame to joy.
Here is a link to the article: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2021/10/digital-only/same-sex-attraction-and-my-journey-from-shame-to-joy?lang=eng)
Spencer, a married father of four, has some of the most unique, practical and helpful insights into the role of the Savior and His Atonement to bring hope and healing. I learn so much listening to Spencer and his honest and thoughtful insights. Spencer also talks about the valuable role of therapy, importance of being vulnerable and how to better minister to each other.
Spencer gave two keynotes at NorthStar (Spencer is the current President https://www.northstarlds.org/) that are two of the finest talks I’ve heard about how the Savior wants to take on our burdens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zPYSoDk1kQ) and how to better trust in God (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjL35kZaHA).
I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast. It will give you better tools to find more hope and healing—and to better serve others.
Thank you Spencer for being on the podcast and your unique life mission to help others.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Patrick Mason and David Pulsipher join us to talk about their new book called Proclaim Peace: The Restoration's Answer to an Age of Conflict that is co-published with the Maxwell Institute's Living Faith series and Deseret Book.
Here is a description of the book: Proclaim Peace is an extended meditation on what it means to follow the Prince of Peace in a world of violence. The book seeks not to promote any particular ideology, but rather to invite readers, especially the rising generation, to reflect seriously on the interpersonal, ethical, and social dimensions of Christian discipleship. As such, it represents a spiritual journey by two believing scholars of peace—a journey of scriptural exegesis and hermeneutics that breathe new life into familiar and beloved Restoration texts.
Patrick and David talk about the unique doctrine in our restored Church that helps us lead with peace both within our Church and the world and how this implementing this doctrine is so needed to reduce divisiveness and help build Zion.
You can learn more about Patrick here (https://history.usu.edu/faculty/faculty-directory/patrick-mason) and David Pulsipher here (https://www.byui.edu/devotionals/david-pulsipher)
You can order the book here https://deseretbook.com/p/proclaim-peace-a-restoration-approach-for-times-of-contention-maxwell-institute?variant_id=194870-paperback
Thank you Patrick and David for your work to reduce divisions and bring us together as the same human family.
My friend Tim Wright (RM from Spain, Age 29, Utah State Graduate) shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saints. Tim, who grew up in Morgan Utah, shares what led him to come out in May of 2021 and why coming out significantly improved his relationship with his Heavenly Father and his family. Tim, who is active in his LDS Ward, shares why he feels so much happier and a greater sense of belonging since coming out.
If you are working through anger at God and/or wondering if it is time for you to come out, please listen to Tim’s story as he uses gospel principles and personal revelation to make his way forward full of hope.
Thank you Tim for being on the podcast. You are a great man. Your story will help so many.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Cheryl Hill shares her remarkable journey to be rebaptized into the Church in 2017 after nearly 30 years out of the Church. Cheryl talks about her relationship with Jesus which led her back into the Church in Georgia through many miraculous experience and incredible Church members.
Cheryl is joined by her therapist, Jennifer Kuck, from Georgia (who flew to Utah for the podcast) and shares insights into Cheryl’s courage to deal with the pain/trauma of prior Church experiences that needed to be addressed to help Cheryl come back into the Church.
Cheryl, who moved to Utah, is joined by her current Bishop, Nate Manning, who talks about helping Cheryl feel loved and welcome in the Ward. Bishop Manning and Cheryl talk about returning to the Temple and all the friends who supported Cheryl that day.
This is a remarkable story of Cheryl's courage to rejoin the Church and the many people who love, believe in, and support Cheryl.
Thank you Cheryl for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Your story will help so many. Keep being you. We all love you!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Chad Cannon (married father of four, active LDS, age 45) join us from near Idaho Falls to share his story. Chad talks about his 30 year journey with pornography use and how the 12-step addiction recovery program (focused on the Savior) was is path to hope and healing. Chad also shares insights into being the father of two LGBTQ children and also battling a life and death illness with leukemia.
If you need hope in your life to end pornography use, please listen to Chad’s story and the role of our Savior and His atonement. Chad also had helpful insights in raising LGBTQ kids and also dealing with a serous illness.
Thank you Chad for being on the podcast and sharing your story as you story will help so many.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jason Conforto, producer at Avalanche Studios, talks about why he and director, Dave Lindsay, decided to produce the documentary film Dog Valley, about the brutal murder of Gordon Church in Millard County, Utah in 1988. Jason shares the role his friend, Chad Anderson, played in researching and bringing this story to Avalanche Studios and producing the film with them.
The movie honors the life of Gordon Church and brings awareness to his horrific death. It opens the door to what we can do to better support our fellow LGBTQ friends and create positive messages.
Jason, who is an active LDS father with a gay son, also talks about how much better things are for his son 30+ years later and how much he loves and supports his son.
You can purchase the film at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/dog-valley/id1582528103
Or you can find more information about the film at dogvalleymovie.com or Avalanche-studios.com
Thank you Jason for being on the podcast. Thank you to Chad Anderson, Dave Lindsay, the Millard County Sheriff Department, Avalanche Studios, and everyone who put this needed documentary together to honor Gordon Church.
Facebook links: https://www.facebook.com/Dog-Valley-101075248315548 https://www.facebook.com/AvalancheStudios https://www.facebook.com/jason.conforto.1/
My friend Brenna Hoffman (married mother of new baby boy) shares her story of not belonging and never fully feeling accepted in Latter-day Saint culture. This feeling along with a negative experience in the temple and life-long questions led Brenna to conclude that her path was to leave the Church.
Brenna shares her story, and talks about support from her convert husband (in a master’s program at BYU), family and friends, feeling accepted in non-LDS congregations and her spiritual impressions to return to the Church. Brenna has been sharing her experiences on social media, in testimony meeting in her BYU Ward, and in her community and has been met with love and support. She also talks about creating safe spaces and unity in our congregations so everyone can feel like they have a place in the Church.
If you are trying to find a way to stay in the Church or are looking for better tools to help others, please listen to Brenna’s story. It is powerful, vulnerable and full of insights to help us better come together.
You can find Brenna on Instagram at @brennabelieves where she shares insights and spiritual thoughts on faith crises, how to support those in a faith crisis, and thoughts about church culture.
Thank you for being on the podcast Brenna. You are awesome!
My friend Becky Edwards joins us to talk about her run for U.S. Senate. Becky, who served 10 years in the Utah House of Representatives, talks about why she is running, past legislative successes, the importance of listening, and principles to bring us together. Becky also talks about the story of her yellow couch—now a key element of her campaign.
I start the podcast with our family connection to Becky and John Edwards. During their recent missionary service in Samoa, Becky became the answer to our family prayers for our missionary son Ben who served in Samoa in 2019-2020.
Thank you Becky for being on the podcast and sharing your vision for Utah. Thanks for sharing why you are running and the values you believe will help bring us together and reduce divisiveness.
Please check out Becky’s campaign at www.BeckyForUtah.com or follow her on social media @BeckyForUtah
My friend Dylan Stegall (Age 23, Texan, RM for Chile Santiago East) shares his journey as gay Latter-day Saint. Dylan talks about being aware of this part about him before his mission but staying really busy/productive and kind of pushing it down. Dylan talks about his successful and enjoyable mission.
Dylan talks about trying to date woman at BYU-Idaho and how he gradually came to feel that is not his path. Dylan shares starting to come out to others and then a deeply spiritual experience where Dylan has God how he felt about Dylan’s sexual orientation.
That powerful experience let Dylan to come out in this Facebook post in August of 2021 https://www.facebook.com/dylan.stegall.3/posts/1199150057217305.
Dylan talks about what is it like to be out at BYU-Idaho (mostly good experiences) and what BYU-Idaho is doing to including calling a chief inclusion officer (see https://byuicomm.org/byuiscroll/6-months-as-chief-inclusion-officer/). BYU-Idaho had a booth at the Rexburg Pride this past Summer (https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/06/rexburg-pride-celebrate-unity-event-considered-huge-success-within-the-community/).
Dylan has co-founded a non profit called Teton Light to help fund scholarships for LGBTQ BYU-Idaho students (check out tetonlight.org).
Thank you for being on the podcast Dylan. You story bring hope and perspective for others. Respect for sharing your story and all the good work you have done to be in a good place. You are a good friend and I’m honored to have you on the podcast!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Garrett and Sallie Ferguson, married parents of 4 kids, join us from the Dallas area to share their story. They first shared in 2013 as part of the Voices of Hope project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s36K2ilFsnY.
They give us an update on their lives since 2013 and what they are doing to bring more understanding to LGBTQ/SSA Latter-day Saints through their co-work as managers of the Voices of Hope project. That project has recently expanded into a podcast as part of North Star (see northstarlds.org).
Thank you for being on the podcast Garrett and Sallie and all the great work you are doing to bring us together and increase understanding.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jakob Schramm (Age 23, RM from the Mexico Monterrey West Mission, Mechanical Engineering at University of Utah and Utah Valley University) shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jakob talks the journey to understand and accept this part of himself and then the thoughtful and methodical process to figure out his best path forward.
Jakob talks about working through two suicidal times of his life and how he is now in a much better place thanks to the support he is receiving from others. Jakob is honest about his relationship with the LDS Church and is not yet sure how to reconcile his membership in the Church and his sexuality, though he still maintains a relationship with God.
Thank you for being on the podcast Jakob. You are a good man doing your best to find your best path forward. Thanks for being you and all the good you bring into this world.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jamison Manwaring (RM from Eastern Canada, Business Owner, Age 40) shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jamison talks about his efforts to make deals with God to not be gay during his closeted years growing up in Idaho Falls and coming out to his Mission President who listened without judgement. Jamison talks about difficult and painful years in his 20’s and early 30’s trying to find a way to find a way forward in a healthy and sustainable way as he navigated his sexuality and faith.
Jamison talks about working for Goldman Sachs in New York and how the supportive culture for its LGBTQ employees to helped Jamison better accept himself and come out in a more extended way in 2013 on Facebook (www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Thj42lMf4).
Jamison is now a business owner in the Phoenix area (https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2020/07/17/valley-exec-went-from-wall-street-to-main-street.html)
Jamison talks about dating men and why he feels that is the best path forward for him. Jamison talks about his relationship with the Church and how he supports those who are members of and find joy in the Church. In short, Jamison is extending grace (and inviting us to do the same) by being supportive of everyone’s individual life paths and seeing/honoring the joy that people are finding in their individual paths.
Jamison’s dear mother Sue (8 children, 27 grandchildren and 8 great grandchildren) joins us on the podcast to share advice for Latter-day Saint parents with LGBTQ children.
Thank you Jamison for being on the podcast. You bring hope and healing and teach principles in a practical way to bring us together as the same human family.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Ed Axley (married father of four, business owner, RM from Costa Rica) share the unique aspects of our restored doctrine that led to his baptism into the Church at age 18. Ed also shares four insightful ways to respond when people open with their life situations. Ed concludes with helping each of us see ourselves as beloved children of Heavenly Parents and to never feel shame or less of ourselves—even in our worst moments.
Thank you Ed for being on the podcast. You bring hope, wonderful perspective and a love for all of Heavenly Parents children.
My friend Andrea Lystrup is a licensed marriage and family therapist joining us to share insights on several important topics including 1) creating Zion within our Church; 2) tools to better love each other; 3) how to balance the tension between law and love; 4) working through pain when something said at Church is hurtful; 5) how to get through trauma/pain which is interfering with your relationship with God and ability to access your spirituality; and 6) advice for LDS couples in mixed-faith marriage.
Thank you Andrea for being on the podcast. I was deeply moved by your insights and expertise to help bring us together and help/heal ourselves and others. You are doing great and needed work.
Your can connect with Andrea at https://www.andrealystrup.com/ and Instagram @askandreamft
My friend Marcus Hayden, age 19 and preparing for a mission, shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Marcus starts with the excellent talk he gave in his BYU YSA Ward this summer based on Elder Gong’s talk “Room in the Inn” (https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2021/04/16gong?lang=eng). Marcus does a great job of taking the principles from Elder Gong’s talk and applying them in real-life situations in our congregations.
Marcus then shares his story coming out at age 13 to his parents, at age 14 to his Bishop and out to a broader circle after he graduated from High School. Marcus talks about the excellent support he is receiving from his parents, community, friends and local leaders.
Marcus then talks about his decision to serve a mission and why being gay is a good thing as a missionary representing the Savior to help others come unto Christ through our restored Church.
Thank you Marcus for being on the podcast. You have a beautiful and unique life mission to help others. You are going to be a great missionary.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Liv Mendoza Haynes, who spoke with the Relief Society General Presidency at BYU Women’s Conference, shares her story.
Liv (who is a convert, RM, Lawyer, Young Woman’s President and expectant mother), shares her journey which included coming out as queer church-wide at Women’s Conference in April 2021 as part of the Relief Society goal to help everyone belong (see https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2021-04-29/byu-womens-conference-relief-society-a-safe-place-belonging-211785 and https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/04/29/help-all-women-including/).
Liv talks about being queer and why they label works for her, advice to other queer/LGBTQ women, advice to parents of LGBTQ children, supporting all types of marriages, better sitting with people in their pain, how to better mourn, develop compassion on not judge.
Liv also explains why being queer is not a problem. She believes this is how her Heavenly Parents intended for her to be created. It is a beautiful part of her identity. The problem is the reaction of others and how we can improve and better create Zion following the invitation of the Relief Society General Presidency.
Thank you Liv for being on the podcast. You and your husband Matthew are awesome. Your story is helping so many. Keep being you!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Colette Dalton (Masters of Social Work from BYU, worked for the Church, now therapist at Symmentry Solutions) share her journey as a gay/queer Latter-day Saints. Colette shares her journey to understand her sexual orientation, navigating being queer and a Church employee and her work as a therapist.
If you are a queer women or parent of a queer daughter, Colette’s insights will help you. And if you are someone who wants to better understand queer Latter-day Saints to help them move forward, or someone working though suicidal ideation, or wanting to strengthen your relationships, Colette’s insights will help you.
Thank you Colette for being on the podcast. Your good heart, story and clinical experience helps so many
My friend Kendall Harward (Ghana, West Africa RM) bravely shares his story. Kendall talks about life before his mission pushing down this aspect of his essence, talking to his Bishop, and going on his mission believing feelings of being gay was a phase that ended. Kendall bravely talks about realizing being gay was still part of him during his mission and how he navigated the complexity of his situation including overwhelming shame for his feelings.
Kendall talks about returning home hoping he would marry a woman and fulfill his hope for a family and life within the Church. Kendall talks about dating women and how he feels that is not going to be his path. He talks about dating men, going through the church repentance process, and his recent positive of loving experience with his Bishop and Stake President and his desire to stay connected to his local ward.
Kendall also talks about the need for self-care and how seeing a therapist and taking care of himself is needed and not selfish and invites everyone to talk care of themselves.
Thank you Kendall for being on the podcast. You are brave and courageous. Talking about this tender subject removes shame and helps others walking a similar road to feel hope and better connect with our Heavenly Parents and the Savior. You are a great man. This world is a better place with you here.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Stuart Barrett (RM from Nebraska, age 26) bravely shared his experience being disfellowshipped in a Facebook post (see https://www.facebook.com/1344601875/posts/10225731849786709/) and returned to full Church activity.
Stuart talks about why he is open about this chapter of his life, why he is a better person for going through the process, efforts to reduce shame and desire to give hope to others.
If you want to go through the repentance process or help others, please listen to Stuart’s podcast. He is brave, honest, vulnerable and authentic. His story will help you. Also, if you are suicidal, Stuart has insights that will give you more hope and desire to stay.
Thank you Stuart for being on the podcast. Respect. Your facebook post and doing the podcast helps 100s and 100s.
My friend Devan Jensen, president of the Latter-day Saint Publishing and Media Association (ldspma.org), joins us to introduce the organization and invite listeners to their upcoming conference at BYU October 7-9, 2021. The association is for Latter-day Saints in publishing or media or independently sharing content through blogs, podcasts, or social media (membership is free). Those who join can network or find resources to help efforts to reach a wider audience (such as writing a book, developing a podcast, better using social media, etc).
On the podcast, Devan talks about the organization’s purpose and the upcoming conference (student discount code of Student2021 and all others code of Friend2021; good through September 30). Devan also shares principles and insights to find common ground.
If you are a Latter-day Saint developing content, please listen to this podcast and check out this organization. They are providing a needed resource. Thank you, Devan, for being on the podcast and for all your great work!
In this solo episode following the events at BYU on August 23rd, I share thoughts for my LGBTQ Latter-day Saints friends, thoughts about my friend Matt Easton, thoughts for fellow Latter-day Saints who are LGBTQ allies, thoughts for local leaders wanting to talk about supporting LGBTQ Latter-day Saints in their local areas, and insights for those in a faith crisis who want to stay in the Church.
In the podcast I reference a Questions from the Closet episode (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-do-i-do-if-im-hurt-by-something-a-church-leader-says/id1504990147?i=1000532985270), David Archuleta (https://www.instagram.com/p/CTFK5tsDXbD/, Facebook group for active Latter-day Saints working to implement church supported LGBTQ discussions/activities in their area (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143) and a chapter about getting through a faith-crisis from my upcoming book (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rei464khsydwdsb/Chapter%2010%20Ministering%20To%20Those%20With%20Questions.pdf?dl=0)
I hope this podcast helps better bring us together as the Body of Christ and create Zion. Love, Richard Ostler
My friend Mindi Holmgren and Justin Holmgren join us to share about the sudden death of their husband/brother at age 35. Corey, who drowned in the community swimming pool on January 19th 2019, was a Military Chaplain and LMFT working at Lifestar in Murray, Utah who helped hundreds during his lifetime. Mindi and Corey are the parents of four—with their last child born 6 weeks after Corey’s death.
Mindi and Justin share about Corey’s life work (which one of Corey’s clients, Tate LeBaron spoke about in Episode 422), how to help those with a sudden and tragic family death, what to say and not to say, and how they are making their way forward. They also talk about how their testimony has deepened and their thoughts about the plan of salvation to bring hope and the Atonement of Jesus Christ to help bring healing. They also talk about how there is sometimes no answers and how to live with faith during mortality.
The Holmgren family has started a non-profit organization in Corey’s name. Check it out at coreyholmgren.org. If you are interested in donating to their cause, you can do so right on their website or through Venmo at @chmemfund.
If you are dealing with a sudden and tragic family death, want to help others, or want your faith strengthened, please listen to this podcast. It is powerful and moving. It is sacred ground to listen to and witness this family story.
You can reach Mindi on IG at @focusingoneternity and Justin on IG or Twitter at @justinholmgren. Thank you Mindi and Justin for being on the podcast and sharing your story. Great job. It honors Corey and gives us better insights to help others.
My friend Ryan Anderson (LDS married father of 4, Ph.D. in Medical Family Therapy from East Carolina University) talks about helping those in abusive relationships and also tools to help local Church leaders better meet the needs of those who bravely open up about being victims of abuse.
Ryan offers this free webinar https://academy.cedarfort.com/course/religion-and-abuse. Ryan has a book from Cedar Fort on this subject coming out in Q1 2022.
If you are in an abusive relationship, want to help others, or are a local Church leader, please listen to this podcast. I found it very helpful with many great principles to help all of us have better tools in our relationships. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast.
Thank you Ryan for being on the podcast and all your great work. You can contact Ryan at: randerson@telos.org
My friend @noah7hanson on IG shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Noah talks about life in High School, and his successful mission (came out to Heavenly Father at the end of his mission).
Noah also talks about dating women, getting engaged, and then receiving strong personal revelation to end that engagement and come out to his now ex-fiancé as gay. That put Noah in a very difficult and dark space. Noah eventually felt his best path forward was to date men and stay in the Church.
Noah met Marshall Day (Atlanta, Georgia RM, Graduate from Utah State) about two years ago, and talks about how that relationship has strengthened his faith in his Heavenly Father and the Savior. Noah and Marshall attend Church each week and hope to participate as much as possible in the Church, and raise a family centered on Christ and His gospel.
Thank you Noah for being on the podcast and sharing your story. It will help so many. Glad to meet you and Marshall. You two have great lives ahead of you.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Kim Siever zooms us from Lethbridge, Alberta, to share his story. Kim, who is Canadian, served a mission in Utah and is now an independent journalist.
He tells us his lifelong journey to understand his sexual orientation after being convinced for over 40 years that he was straight. He also shares how the Spirt helped him understand this part of him, and he came out as queer to his wife, family, and friends only last year.
Kim came out to his Latter-day Saint congregation during a Fast and Testimony Meeting in early August and explains why he felt impressed to do that and the reaction of ward members. Kim feels no shame in being both queer and a Latter-day Saint and sees them as two parts of the same identity.
Kim’s podcast is very insightful, and I hope it will help us understand there are LGBTQ Latter-day Saints of all ages and how we can better support them as we try to create a feeling of belonging within the church. Thank you for being on the podcast, Kim. Respect for sharing your story that helps all of us better come together as the Body of Christ. Great job!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Truman (Toronto Canada RM, JD from Harvard Law School) and Brae (New Mexico RM, MHR/MBA from Utah State) join us to share their story as gay Latter-day Saints.
Brae and Truman talk about growing up knowing they were gay, serving missions, coming out and eventually starting to date men. Truman talks about having his church membership withdrawn by the Church in March 2020. Brae is still a member. They both talk about their plans to continue attending Church and participate as much as possible and their strong belief in Heavenly Parents and Christ.
They talk about their wedding on June 12, 2021 in Twin Falls and the support of their active LDS families. Brae and Truman are not asking others to follow their path, but share why they feel this is the right path for them and the happiness in their lives.
Elder Cook in his October 2020 talk said: “We can be an oasis of unity and celebrate diversity. Unity and diversity are not opposites. We can achieve greater unity as we foster an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for diversity.” I believe this story helps us become more unified as the same human family and better love and support each other.
Thank you Truman and Brae for being on the podcast and the courage to share your story. You story will help so many better understand and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and how to better bring us together. You can connect with Brae and Truman on IG @braeandtru.
Note: *Brae references a book in the podcast, and wants to note that he strongly disagrees with its premise that homosexuality can be prevented
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Geoffrey Pears (Masters in Accounting from BYU, RM from the Philippines) joins us to share the talk he gave in his YSA Ward in Houston about his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. It is a deeply moving, honest and vulnerable talk.
Geoffrey does a great job taking us into the life of a gay member of the Church. I am glad that his Bishop and ward leadership helped to create Zion by asking Geoffrey to give this powerful talk.
You can listen to Geoffrey’s talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLg0ZaKRNEI or read it here: https://bit.ly/3lqgC5u
I encourage everyone to listen and share this powerful podcast. Thank you for being on the podcast Geoffrey and for all your wondering insights to help us better support our LGBTQ members and come together as the same human family.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jordan Jackson (who shared his story in episode 246) joins us to talk about his new LGBTQ resource guide, LGBTQUT.com.
Jordan talks about how the guide helps connect LGBTQ individuals, parents with LGBTQ children, and allies to resources in Utah—something Jordan wishes he had 4 years ago when we came out.
Please listen to this podcast and check out LGBTQUT.com.
Thank you Jordan for being on the podcast and all the good you do to bring us together.
My friend Devin Wilde (Scotland Ireland RM, SLC Native) bravely shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Devin talks about growing up knowing he was gay from a very young age. Devin also talks about his mental health and pornography use during his pre-mission years and how he stop pornography use after a visit with his Bishop.
Devin talks about his mission and then leaving his mission after about 17 months and returning home because of infield transgressions. He talks about the despair he felt, the shame, the anger at God --- and then how he was able to find peace and hope. Devin talks about dating men and eventually losing temple privileges. But he talks about great priesthood leaders who love him, create no shame, and working with him in a positive way that is helping Devin stay in the Church (currently working towards regaining temple privileges). Devin also talks about the great role of his mom and siblings in his life.
Devin, with the help of his life coach Todd Sylvester (a dear friend) is helping Devin to “own your story or your story will own you” and how to not “be ruled by fear”.
If you want to find hope as a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, please listen to Devin’s podcast. Thank you Devin for being on the podcast. Your courage to be so honest and vulnerable. It helps so many. Respect. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friend Kurt Nielsen (who was episode 147) updates us on his journey and insights as a gay Latter-day Saint. Kurt, who is active in the Church, shares insights on what we can do to better create Zion by seeing and involving our LGBTQ members.
Kurt also talks about the need to belong and how some considering separating themselves from the Church are not having a belief crisis but a belonging crisis.
Kurt is very good with words and stories from his own life to help us better understand. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast.
Thank you my friend Kurt for all the good you do. You are one of my heroes and a wonderful human, family man and disciple of Christ.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773Episode
My friend Will Sintyl, who grew up in Haiti and has lived in Utah for the last 4 years, shares his story. Will, who recently graduated from High School, shares coming out to family and friends as bisexual.
Will talks about knowing he was bisexual for many years, why he needed to come out and his hopes for the future. Will also talks about how his relationship with the Church is even stronger since coming out.
You can find Will on Instagram @will_sintyl
Thanks for being on the podcast Will! You are a great man with a wonderful future!
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Our good family friends Mason Dimond and Luke Davenport join us to share their stories. Luke updates us on his service mission that ends in late July—thank you for your service Elder Davenport! Please listen to Episode 228 for more of Luke’s story.
Mason, in one of the bravest moments on our podcast, shares what led him to come home from his mission after 5 weeks. Mason, who left for his mission in July 2019, talks about being at the Mexico MTC and his emotional health deteriorating to a very unsustainable place.
Mason, with no history of mental health issues, found himself in uncharted waters and bravely did what he needed to do—go home and heal. Mason talks about the process to leave the Mexico MTC and the feelings of failure as he returned home. Mason, who has been home nearly two years, talks about the steps he took (and the help of others like his good family and friens like Luke Davenport) to be in a much better place.
Mason also talks about why he still has a strong testimony of the Church and is looking forward to his upcoming temple marriage.
If you are an early release missionary or anyone working through mental health challenges, please listen to Mason’s story. He will give you hope that things are going to be OK. And, if you want to better understand why some incredible faithful and committed Latter-day Saints return home from their mission early, please listen to Mason’s story.
Thank you Mason and Luke for being on the podcast. Your story will help so many. Respect my friends!
My friend Blake Hogge shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Blake shares knowing his was “different” before his successful mission to Tampa, Florida (Haitian Creole), decided to stop dating women, developing his very successful wedding photographer business (check out @blakehogge on IG), coming out to friends and family, starting to date men, and staying close to his Heavenly Father.
Blake has a remarkable story that helps all of us better understand and support each other—and keep us together as the same human family. I was deeply moved by his good spirit, support of all people on their respective paths and wonderful insights.
Thank you Blake for being on the podcast. You are helping so many with your profession and sharing your story. You have a great life ahead of you.
Please Check Out My Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Calvin Smith (RM from Mozambique and Swaziland, BYU Grad in Teaching Social Sciences) bravely shares his story as a gay Latter-Day Saint.
Calvin talks about his younger years, great mission experience, realizing marrying a woman isn’t going to be possible, becoming suicidal with the complexities of his situation, good family and friends, and finding hope and healing.
Calvin talks about dating men and has great insights for others on this road. He also talks about his excellent relationship with his Heavenly Parents and the Savior and the personal revelation he is receiving for his best path forward. Calvin also talks about wanting to participate in the Church as much as the church will allow even if his church membership is withdrawn.
Thank you Calvin for courage to share your story and help us know how to better understand and support our LGBTQ members. You have great spiritual insights, maturity and a desire to help others. You have a great life ahead of you and this podcast will help so many. Thank you for sharing your story.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Raini Stock (RM from Colorado Springs and getting her Master’s in school counseling from Idaho State University), shares her journey to stay a member of our Church. Raini shares the challenges she faced after her mission while at school at BYU-Idaho and not fitting in or feeling a sense of belong at times in our Church. Raini shares being uncomfortable about garment wearing (not from a religious issues, but a practical challenge) and also her mental health challenges.
Raini shares how she found Rosemary Card and Dr Julie Hanks and how these two committed Latter-day Saints helps Raini to know there are people like her in the church—who are needed and helping others in wonderful and unique ways.
If you don’t feel like you fit the mold, are uncomfortable about some aspects of our church, or have had a difficult leader experience, please listen to Raini’s story. She will help you to feel not alone and give you hope for your future.
Raini has also started a podcast called Young Flirty and Not Thriving (available now on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and Podbean). Check out @youngflirtyandnotthriving on IG for updates.
My friend Lincoln Bagley bravely shares his unique mission (Peru, home for a year, Utah, Peru and Colorado) which covered three years from his call to returning home in May 2021.
Lincoln talks about being sent home from his mission because of prior worthiness and a difficult experience his Mission President, feeling his was going to leave the church because “could not measure up”, being home for a year where he grieved and then healed, serving again about being assigned to Utah where he got treatment for scrupulosity, going to Peru and then reassigned to Colorado when Peru closed with Covid.
Lincoln talks about healing from a difficult leader experience, deconstructing and then reconstructing his testimony, why he stays a member of the Church, the unique way he served the people of Colorado and his outreach to marginalized members of the Church. You can read more of Lincoln’s story here:
https://www.facebook.com/100044382798931/posts/215979476558144/
https://www.facebook.com/100044382798931/posts/277993347023423/
I’m grateful for Lincoln for the courage to share his story and all the good he did on his mission. It is people like Lincoln that give me hope for the future our Church and world.
Thank you Lincoln for being on the podcast and for being you!
My friend, Dr. Christy Kane who has a PhD in clinical psychology, joins us to talk about her new book Fractured Souls and Splintered Memories: Unlocking the Boxes of Trauma (https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-Souls-Splintered-Memories-Unlocking/dp/1462140327). Dr Kane’s book and clinical practice is focused on improving our mental health including identifying and working through trauma.
In the podcast, Dr. Kane talks about why therapy is important, how we can talk about mental health in a more effective way, what is trauma and how we can help others to heal.
If you want better insights and tools to solve the trauma in your life and help others, please read Dr Kane’s book and listen to this podcast. Her insights were very helpful to me and I believe will help you. Thank you Dr, Kane for being on the podcast and all your great work. You can connect with Dr Kane at drchristykane.com and on Instagram @dr.christykane
My friends Loren (PhD in Counseling Psychology from BYU) and Anne (Master in Marriage and Family Therapy from BYU) share their story. Loren, who knew he was not straight from an early age, shares his journey of self-discovery and understanding and why he identifies as Queer—a recent development—and the personal revelation that led him to accepting that label for himself. Loren and Anne also discuss falling in love and their decision to get married and Loren being open about his orientation—describing being able to “show up as my full authentic self”.
Loren, who is a licensed psychologist at Washington State University, also talks about his identical twin brother who is gay and married to a man. Loren shares about how close he is with his twin and how strong their relationship is, but also helps us understand that his story is different from his brother's story and how we shouldn’t try to complete other’s stories—but create space for the uniqueness of each story.
If you want to better understand your own story as a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint or better understand others, please listen to this podcast. Loren and Anne offer wonderful and unique insights —merging their personal stories and profession insights to help bring more understanding.
Loren is also the author of this excellent article about the creation and use of identity labels, written while he was at BYU: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1554&context=irp
Thank you Loren and Anne for being on the podcast. You two are awesome!
My friend Blaire Ostler joins us to talk about her new book called Queer Mormon Theology (https://www.amazon.com/Queer-Mormon-Theology-Blaire-Ostler/dp/1948218410). Blaire has wonderful insights into how to understand, see and support Queer Latter-day Saints. One of my favorite sections is 15 ways to be more inclusive for our queer friends.
Thank you Blare for being on the podcast and all your good work to bring us together. You can check out Blaire’s other podcasts on our platform at 396, 335, and 24.
My friend Dashiell Miner joins us to better see and love all of God’s children. Dashiell, who is at BYU studying microbiology working towards being medical doctor in oncology, shares four topics:
1) Surviving brain surgery at age 9 and having a life-long hearing disability. Dashiell talks about how this shaped his life to have more empathy and understanding for others
2) Dashiell’s talk in this Ward about serving at San Quentin State Prison and getting to know Tommy, sharing deeply spiritual experiences, and the other ‘men in blue’ living there. In this deeply moving talk, Dashiell helps us see others as our Heavenly Parents see them.
3) Dashiell’s home environment and the topics, discussions and principles taught by his parents Tom and Julia and how that upbringing has positively impacted his life and his ability to help others. Dashiell bravely opens up about a faith crisis following his mission in Oklahoma City and why he stays a committed Latter-day Saint.
4) Dashiell’s ongoing efforts to be a better LGBTQ ally.
This was a deeply moving and spiritual podcast. Thank you Dashiell being on the podcast and your insights to bring us together using the doctrine of Christ --- and your insights to bring hope and healing. You give me hope for the future of the world.
My friend Chauncy Brinton (in his early 40’s, Army Psychologist, Doctorate from James Madison University) bravely and vulnerably shares his journey so he can help others. Chauncy talks about unwanted sexual behaviors—compulsive masturbation and gay pornography use—and why this happened in his life and his path to healing. Now in his 40’s, Chauncy has connected many of the dots to understand why this came into his life and how to move beyond unwanted sexual behaviors.
Chauncy helps us understand he never decided to do "evil stuff” one day to displease God—but rather how these behaviors (still sins) came into his life at an early age and how the shame and low self-worth kept him isolated in this cycle.
Chauncy also talks about navigating being gay and doing his best to understand this part about him and make his way forward. Though currently married, he and his wife are not sure what their future relationship will look like. They are seeking to trust in the Lord, that he will guide them to do what is best. Chauncy is out to family, Bishop, and ward (he is active and holds callings).
If unwanted sexual behaviors are part of your life (gay or straight) or you want to help someone, please listen to Chauncy’s story. He is so honest, brave and vulnerable. His honesty and courage helps others who feel alone find hope and healing and helps others better understand how the Atonement of Jesus Christ applies to them.
Thank you Chancy being on the podcast. You are one of my new heroes. And thank you for your military service and your professional work to help others.
My friend Bryce Johnson joins us to share his story. Bryce is an active Latter-day Saint and is honest that he doesn’t know exactly his future. He shares he could marry a man or marry a woman—and is looking for is people in his life that love, support and accept him. That are not telling him how to live his life—but walking with him in his journey.
Bryce shares coming out to his parents at age 12, serving a mission, and life after his mission. Bryce talks about difficult and positive church experiences and learning to rely on his Heavenly Parents for direction and the Savior (and therapy) to heal.
If you are not sure of your future as an LGBTQ Latter-day Saint (or someone working to help someone on this road), please listen to Bryce’s story. It will help you.
Thank you for being on the podcast Bryce. You are a great man with a wonderful future!
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Karim Lazarus (age 50, living in Baltimore) vulnerably shares his life story. Karim shares growing up in a single-parent home, being sexually abused (which he shares did not make him gay), finding his home in a military high school in Virginia and attending the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs where he joined the Church. That led to Karim, after one year in the Church, courageously serving a mission in the France Bordeaux Mission under President Neil L. Anderson which was a great experience. After his mission, Karim returned to Academy but had some difficult church experiences that ultimately led to him step away.
From 2003 through 2019, Karim was not active in the Church and was in relationships with men—including a deeply fulfilling relationship that ended a couple years ago. Karim always maintained an excellent relationship with Heavenly Father and our Savior and felt their love and acceptance. Karim, even while out of the Church, read conference talks and was aware of general Church direction---especially on LGBTQ issues.
Over the past few years, Karim sensed a better tone from the Church towards its LGBTQ members and felt a desire to return to the Church. He eventually reached out to his Bishop in Baltimore and told him his life story. His Bishop responded with no shame--but rather with love, compassion and acceptance. Karim now holds a temple recommend and has Stake and Ward callings.
Thank you Karim for the being on the podcast and sharing your story. Respect for being so vulnerable and honest. Thanks for your military service. Your story will help so many.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Tate LeBaron (active LDS, in his late 20s) shares the day four years ago when he almost died by suicide and what helped him out of that hopeless and dark place.
Tate starts the podcast by reading a Facebook post from May 2021 (https://www.facebook.com/tate.lebaron/posts/10159058075777432).
Tate also bravely shares about this battle with pornography and how that came into his life and what steps he took to remove it from his life.
If you are working to solve porn, feel you have no worth, are suicidal and have feel everyone would be better off with out you, PLEASE listen to the podcast. Tate has been there. He can give you hope, tools, and feel the love from our Heavenly Parents to move forward in your life and have hope that your best days are ahead of you.
You are also welcome to read my Ensign article about solving pornography (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use).
Thank you Tate for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story which is helping so many have hope for their future. You can reach Tate at wavesofawareness@outlook.com
My friend Daryl Austin is a journalist based in Utah. His work has appeared in National Geographic, The Atlantic, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today and The New York Times. On the podcast, Daryl talks about several of his articles to help us better understand social issues, reduce divisiveness and the reasons to celebrate our differences.
Here are links to the articles discussed:
Deseret News: www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/5/28/22457992/disneys-wokeness-beats-wickedness-conservative-christian-boycott
The Washington Post: www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/06/06/uss-indianapolis-mcvay-hashimoto/
NBC News: www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/george-floyd-s-death-has-be-tipping-point-white-people-ncna1229181
The Atlantic: www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/03/psychology-of-silent-treatment-abuse/618411/ You can connect with Daryl on Twitter at @darylaustinUT
Thank you Daryl for being on the podcast and your national voice to brings stories forward to help us be better. You are doing important and needed work!
My friend Josh Pedersen, who came out as gay at 21 following his successful LDS mission in England, talks about his Kickstarter where you can pre-order his new booked called “OUT, NOT IN!” Josh, who is a full time Professor of Design, wrote the book to help LGBTQ people struggling to find their voice come out, and also to their families and close friends to gain a more empathetic understanding. It is a reminder that LOVE - between parent and child, best friends, and family friends is the greatest gift of all. No sides, just love.
You can find "OUT, NOT IN!", at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joshpedersen/out-not-in-an-illustrated-lgbtq-book. Or by going to his Instagram @joshpedersen and using the link in his bio. To make this book a reality, they need to make their goal by July 6th. I encourage everyone to pre-order a copy and donate to this worthy and needed cause, not only will you be getting a copy of the book you'll be helping get 2 copies into libraries and public schools in Utah.
Thank you Josh for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You are a great man, with a huge heart, and a mission to help heal and bring us together.
My friend Drew Young (who was on episodes 276 and 325) joins us to talk about his new book called “Stand Guard at the Door of Your Mind” which is available for pre-order at Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Stand-Guard-Door-Your-Mind/dp/B0933GP1RY/). In the book Drew discusses many topics including suicide, porn, mental heath and bullying.
In our podcast Drew opens up and enduring multi years of bullying and the pain this created in his life. Drew invites us a parents and local leaders to teach that bullying is wrong and to active condemn it when we see bullying occurring. If you are currently being bullied or have been bullied, Drew’s story will help you.
Drew also does mental health/porn/life coaching and would love to help you or a loved one. If you’d like to connect with Drew you can find him on Facebook at facebook.com/mrdrewyoung1 and IG @mrdrewbyoung
Thank you Drew for being on the podcast and your life work to help and heal others. You are a great man with a wonderful family—a hero to me and many others!
My friends Bree and Kit share their story as a couple with Bree’s gender incongruence/gender dysphoria. Bree talks about the shame, guilt and fear of 40+ years dealing with this and then eventually coming out to Kit. Kit and Bree talk about how their marriage is now even stronger and how they are moving forward. Bree talks about what it is like to deal with gender incongruence and the relief, healing of being more authentic. Bree talks about remaining an active Latter-day Saint and a recent Stake Leader Training where Bree spoke about being transgender and how to better minister to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Bree is on the Board at NorthStar (see https://www.northstarlds.org/bree-bruce) and talks about the healing role of NorthStar.
Thank you Bree and Kit for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You help all of us to better understand that gender incongruence is real and how we can better support—and better see the contribution of transgender Latter-day Saints.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Dallas Campbell shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. I became aware of Dallas from his moving Instagram coming out post www.instagram.com/tv/CNTnG5thfbW
Dallas talks about knowing he is gay from a young age, some difficult times in high school, serving a wonderful mission in Guatemala, testimony of the Gospel, trying to date women, and receiving personal revelation he needed to come out.
Dallas talks about what helped him to finally come out; the great support he is receiving from family, friends and Ward members; advice for those who are closeted; and his feelings about his future. Dallas also talks about his strong relationship with his Heavenly Father and the Savior to bring hope and healing.
Thank you for being on the podcast Dallas. Your story is needed and moving. Thank you for being a light and bringing hope to others. You are a great man with a bright future. You can reach Dallas on IG @dallasmcampbell
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Connor Berg (grew up in South Weber, Served a mission in the Jacksonville Florida Mission, currently at Utah State) shares his journey. Connor talks about growing up and learning he is gay in a world that makes it difficult to be gay. That led to years of shame, self-harm and depression. Connor eventually came out to his family (very supportive) which led to a path of therapy, hope and healing. Connor talks about dating a boy during his senior year and then deciding to serve a mission. Connor talks about his mission and better learning how to receive personal revelation and bring others to Christ.
Connor talks about returning from his mission and trying to navigate his future. He talks about dating men, feeling hope and peace, and now feeling open to remaining single or possibly marrying a woman. Connor helps us understand how to seek for personal revelation and honor other’s personal revelation. This is one of the best podcasts I’ve done on the power and importance of personal revelation and honoring each LGBTQ Latter-day Saint’s journey.
If you are in a dark place as a LGBTQ Latter-day Saints (or really in any way), please listen to Connor. He will give you hope for your future and help you know of your Heavenly Parents love for you. Thank you Connor for being on the podcast. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
Please Check Out My New Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Dason and Taylor join us to share principles about how to keep relationships together when one goes through a faith crisis/transition. Dason and Taylor were friends growing up in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada and both served missions. After they both got married and started families, they lost contact until Dason’s Facebook post in 2019 about this faith transition. Taylor reached out to Dason with a desire to validate Dason's experiences/concerns, as well as share how he (Taylor) had reconciled some of the complex issues he had also encountered with church history/doctrines. After some bumps in the road and honest communication, they learned to accept and support each other in their respective journeys without an agenda to pull one to their way of seeing things. They report how their friendship is now closer than ever. I believe our Heavenly Parents are pleased when we find ways to reduce divisiveness, stop pointing fingers, and love (instead of judge) others. Where we learn to “achieve greater unity as we foster an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for diversity” and “unity and diversity are not opposites” as taught by Elder Quentin Cook in October 2020 General Conference. Dason and Taylor teach us how to do this in a real-life situation. Dason and Taylor are also admins in the Facebook Group called “The Restoration Table” (https://www.facebook.com/groups/720024265292786 where current and former church members are working together to better understand and support each other (see Episode 414 for more). Thank you Dason and Taylor for being on the podcast and your good work to bring us together
My friend Tony Fieldson, who was on Episode 359, shares 10 keys for responding to your loved one’s questions or faith transition (see Tony’s video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm3visvgAFk).
Tony also talks about The Restoration Table Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/720024265292786) and its goals to implement these 10 keys among its members (comprised of active Latter-day Saints, to those unsure about their future, to former Latter-day Saints). No one in this group is trying to pull others to their place--rather working to create more understanding and find common ground.
Thank you Tony for your great work to bring more understanding, reduce fear and bring more understanding. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast.
My friend Bo Buchi (masters degree, licensed clinical therapist) talks about his role as a therapist to help clients use the Gospel of Jesus Christ to improve their lives (including ending pornography use and living the law of chastity). Bo also talks about listening to the right voices (our leaders, scriptures) to make the hard decisions to improve our lives. Bo explains the psychological principle of dissonance and how it relates to the Gospel and healing from spiritual illness.
In addition to this podcast to help solve porn, please listen to episode 347 where Bo and Hayden Paul talk about Bo’s role as his therapist to end porn use.
Thank you Bo for being on the podcast and your bold voice of truth in a confusing/noisy world. You are helping many. You can reach Bo at BoBuchiMHC@gmail.com or CobaltCounselor.com
My friend Tom Fairholm (who recently graduated from BYU with degrees in music composition and Russian) shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Tom, who has deep testimony of loving Heavenly Parents, the Savior, the Book of Mormon, talks about coming out to his parents in his teens (good experience), serving a mission, trying to make dating women work, and coming out more broadly earlier this year.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Tom wrote a very thoughtful medium article (https://humanparts.medium.com/of-power-and-of-love-and-of-a-sound-mind-150289b5b41f) which has great insights and thoughtful suggestions going forward. Tom discusses the article on the podcast.
Tom concludes with a piano musical number that he composed for the podcast. You can hear more of his music at https://soundcloud.com/tom-fairholm.
Thank you Tom for being on the podcast and sharing some of your journey. You are a very gifted man contributing to our church and community in wonderful ways. You are bringing hope, healing and better understanding to many. This world is a better place with you in it.
My friends Elin and Randy Dastrup join us to talk about Randy’s life-long battle of feeling broken and having no worth. This partly resulted from being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. Randy (who served a mission in Puerto Rico) talks about his battles with pornography and having an affair.
Elin and Randy share the moment Randy told Elin about the affair, how they kept their marriage together, and the role of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and give hope. They recognize some marriages end, but share how their marriage survived and is now thriving – party because Randy finally addressed and solved his feelings of brokenness and having no worth.
Elin wrote a novel based on the experience (see https://www.amazon.com/Its-Always-Been-Elin-Dastrup-ebook/dp/B08ND6YF7Z/) and there is additional information on the book's Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/noblesonofgod. They discuss the novel and how one family uses the Light of Christ to show compassion and humility to conquer the trials of pornography and infidelity.
Please listen to this podcast and read their book to better understand how to apply the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives, work through difficult situations, and find more hope.
Thank you Elin and Randy for being on the podcast. You two are two of my new heroes!
In anticipation of the upcoming North Star Conference, on June 10th-13th, my friends Ty Mansfield and Jeff Bennion join us to share their story of the founding of North Star—how and why it all started. They share the goals, vision, and mission of North Star, as well as address some common misconceptions about North Star. Ty and Jeff also share some of their personal stories as Latter-day Saints navigating the intersections of sexuality and faith and their personal paths forward.
You can learn more about North Star at NorthStarLDS.org register for the June conference at NorthStarLDS.org/Conference2021.
I am deeply supportive of North Star—I encourage everyone to check out this organization and consider attending the conference. Please check out this LDS living article with Stephen Nelson's experience and testimony at last year's conference https://www.ldsliving.com/-Just-believe-The-unwritten-story-of-the-fourth-member-of-GENTRI-the-gentlemen-trio/s/93473
Thank you, Ty and Jeff, for being on the podcast and for your wonderful and needed work to better love and support our LGBTQ+ members and their families.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Jordan and Adam share their journey as gay Latter-day Saints. Jordan and Adam served missions, completed college, have strong careers, have been together for three years and now feel their path is to get married. While we all understand their path is outside the doctrine of our Church, this episode is about how to come together in our differences as the same human family, reduce divisiveness, and show love and support.
They also talk about raising Adam’s six-year old son from his former marriage, their hopes for the future, their strong relationship with Heavenly Father, their respect for the LDS church, and their good relationship with their LDS parents.
Thank you Jordan and Adam for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You are good men with a wonderful future. Your story gives insights and teaches principles to bring us together to better love and support each other.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jed Alldredge shares his story about being the parent of a gay son, Jeffrey Alldredge (episode 270). Jeffrey came out at age 12 to his parents Jed and Starlyn—which is over 15 years ago. Jed has been on this road for a longtime and has wonderful insights into being the parent of a gay son. Like all families, there are some difficult moments and some great moments.
The Alldredge family story is really a beautiful love story of coming together, having honest and vulnerable conversation, and supporting each other. If you are a parent of a LGBTQ child, I believe Jed has insights that will help you.
Thank you Jed and Starlyn for raising such a fine son in Jeffrey and all your children. Thanks Jed for coming on the podcast.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend David (gay) and Ann (straight) Rickey share their journey. David, who kept the shame of his sexual orientation to himself for over 40 years, decided the time was right to come out to Ann in 2012 while serving as a Bishop in Nevada. Ann and David talk about the difficult and painful days that followed—but the joy, happiness and peace that is now in their marriage and lives. It is a beautiful love story. They also talk about the wonderful support from their adult children. Ann talks about how she would not change anything about David—including his sexual orientation because she doesn’t see this as something that is broken and needs to be fixed.
David and Ann recently returned from serving a mission in Hawaii and now live in Draper Utah.
If you want insights into how to better live the gospel and support others, please listen to this podcast. It will inspire you. You can read more about David’s story here https://tinyurl.com/2ft65ffm and Ann’s story here https://tinyurl.com/y9ktwsrh
Thank you David and Ann for the courage to be on the podcast. You are two of my new heroes—and for your work to help teach us how to be more loving and inclusive.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Tanner Robinson joins us to share his story. Tanner (age 24, active LDS, and working on a Doctor of Audiology) starts with his mission in Taiwan and returning home early because of fibromyalgia. Tanner then shares his journey to understand and be at peace with his sexual orientation as a bisexual Latter-day Saint. I have made many incorrect assumptions about those who are bisexual—so I’m grateful that Tanner (and others who have been on the podcast) are willing to step forward and share their story to help us better understand so we can better support.
Tanner also has great insights into the love of our Heavenly Parents, personal revelation, and reducing shame. Tanner is in a great place and has a wonderful life ahead of him.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Emerson Fersch, recently released as Stake President in the California Long Beach East Stake, talks about ‘creating Zion’ in his stake where everyone felt welcome, loved and needed. That included a significant outreach to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints in his stake—as well as working to make sure other groups who often feel on the margins feel a sense of belonging.
Emerson also talks about his conversion story to the Church and falling in love with his dear wife Darcy (they now live in Cedar City, Utah) and their joint efforts to connect more with the blessings of the Gospel.
If you are a local leader looking for real-life experiences to honor President Ballard’s challenge in April 2021 conference to create a greater feeling of belonging, please listen to this podcast. It will inspire you. Our prayer is that ideas will come into your mind/heart to better ‘create Zion’ in your area of stewardship. You can reach Emerson at emerson.fersch@outlook.com
Thank you Emerson for being on the podcast and your great work. You are a hero to me and 100s of others.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend David Woods (early 60’s) and his niece Bekah Clements (married mother of three, HR Director) share their story. David (who served a mission in Switzerland) talks about being gay in Utah, moving away from Utah and leaving the Church, developing a successful multi-faceted career, returning to the Church after being out for several decades, moving back to Utah (where he is currently serving as a temple worker and ward clerk). It’s a moving and remarkable story.
David talks about the difficult road of being gay and LDS and how he did his best to move forward. Bekah talks about her uncle David and how we can better support and love family members regardless of their church activity. This podcast is a beautiful love story.
David and I learn—in real time during the podcast—that we crossed paths over 30 years ago.
Bekah, who is a Relief Society teacher in her ward, shares this powerful statement about the need for everyone in our congregations.
"For our boat to swing in unison we need you if you have gay or straight children. We need working women and full-time homemakers. We need women with children, those coping with the pain of infertility, and those that will not have children in this life. We need you if you are married, single, divorced, or widowed. We need those who are depressed, those who deal with crippling anxiety as well as those who can lift the burden of those in the pit of despair. We want those who have a temple recommend, those that have never had a recommend, and those who are working to get to a place where they can renew their recommend. We need introverts just as much as we need extroverts in this boat. Those with strong testimonies, wavering testimonies, and those who have never gained a testimony belong in our boat. There is a seat in the boat for converts, investigators, and those who come from pioneer stock. We need those dealing with crippling illnesses as much as we need those in perfect health. We need women of all colors, ethnicities, sexual orientations, and political affiliations. If you can fight the fight we need you as much as those who can make peace. We need those whose husbands struggle with pornography addiction. We need you if you are overweight or stick thin. If you are suffering with substance abuse or can be the support system for someone who is, we need you on our team. We need those that cook and bake as well as those who support Door Dash. We need you if your husband is a righteous active priesthood holder, an inactive priesthood holder, or does not hold the priesthood at all. We need those with a million dollars in the bank and those who are living paycheck to paycheck. We need those who want to be in the boat as well as those who don’t. (from her FB post: https://www.facebook.com/rebekah.w.clements/posts/10158824393103810)
Thank you David and Bekah for being on the podcast. You are two of my heroes! Your insights bring us healing and together as the same human family.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Kristen Reber (active LDS, married mother of three) joins us to talk about her early release from her mission 10 years ago. Kristen talks about the myriad of feelings that accompanied that experience including anger, pain, relief, and feelings of failure and frustrations with that experience. Several years after her early return, Kristen, realizing others are walking the same road, wrote a book and started a podcast on this subject (both are called Early Homecoming). Kristen has great insights to help others walking this road find hope for the future and belonging in our congregations.
Her book is available in paperback, ebook, or audiobook on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Early-Homecoming-Resource-Early-Returned-Missionaries/dp/B08NWHZP36/
You can also buy it in paperback at Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/early-homecoming-a-resource-for-early-returned-missionaries-their-church-leaders-and-family
You can listen to her podcast anywhere you like to listen to podcasts, or by visiting her website at: kristenreber.com/podcast
You can also contact her via her website or on her social media sites: Facebook: facebook.com/kristenreber or facebook.com/earlyhomecoming Instagram: @author_kristenreber
Thank you Kristen for your great work to help love, show compassion for, and give support for early release missionaries.
My friend Sharla Goettl joins us to talk about her outstanding new book called “Spiritual Resilience: Leading Our Youth to Go and Do”. This wonderful book is for LDS parents and will give you added tools, learned from Nephi's teenage years, to help guide your own children.
The book is available at Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08T8L88TV or from Sharla’s web site at www.sharlagoettl.com.
Thanks for being on the podcast Sharla. You are awesome. Thanks for your work to help our youth build a strong foundation.
My long-time friend Michael Broadhead joins us to share his journey being gay and raised LDS. Michael is joined by his husband Michael Massoni (they have been together for 25 years and married for 7 years). They both work for Southwest Airlines and live in Phoenix.
Michael shares doing his best to navigate being gay, trying to find his way in the LDS Church, working through tough situations and finding a way forward. Michael, who is no longer in the LDS Church, has great insights on how to bring us together as the same human family, find common ground and reduce divisiveness, and principles to keep families together. In this podcast we discovered that in an event whereby we ran into each other decades ago, we were both affected by our fears of each other.
Thank you Michael for being on the podcast. This world is a better place because of the contributions of you and your husband Michael.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jeanie Edwards (active LDS, married mother of three, teacher in Princeton NJ) and Sean Edwards (RM, Married to Matt, School Administrator in Utah) share their family story. Sean and Jeanie share Sean’s coming out at age 17, serving a mission, trying to date women, dating men and eventually getting married to Matt (also a RM) 2 years ago. Sean shares his deep love for his Heavenly Father and the Savior and the support he is receiving from his family, friends, and school community.
Jeanie, who has been on this road for 15 years, shares insights as a deeply committed Latter-day Saint and mother on raising a LGBTQ child including how we can do better.
Thank you Jeanie and Sean for being on the podcast. Your family story is a beautiful family love story and will help many.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Jeffrey Scott Parsons (late 30’s, RM, talented signer, dancer and actor) shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jeff shares positive and difficult Church experiences, why he stays in the Church and attends his Ward, his hopes for the future, and how congregations can work with LGBTQ Latter-day Saints to be stronger and enjoy a better sense of belonging.
Jeff also has wonderful insights for other LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Thank you for being on the podcast Jeff. You are a great man—a true warrior—using your many God given talents to bring light and hope into the world.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Alec and Irene Barrow’s (episode 397) children join us to talk about their love for their gay father (who is a seminary teacher in Utah) and their parents wonderful marriage. Their children are Amalia and her husband TJ, Ben and his wife McKaela, Clark and his finance Tegan, Caroline and Elizabeth.
The Barrow kids love their gay father Alec and straight mother Irene and are proud to be their children—their family story is a beautiful love story. They are not embarrassed to have a gay father—but rather see their father as one of their heroes—They are proud of their parents marriage and are glad their story is being heard in a broader way.
They share how having parents in a mixed orientation marriage has helped them to understand and teach the Gospel and Jesus Christ. They are glad their parents are sharing their story to help better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and bring us together as the same human family.
The Barrow kids have powerful and needed insights on how to love, value and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast (and episode 397 with Alec and Irene). It will help all of us better support LGBTQ members of our families and congregations.
Thank you Barrow family for all your great work to teach and live the gospel of Jesus Christ.
For More Stories, Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friends Alec and Irene Barrow (married 30 years, 5 kids) talk about Alec being a gay Latter-day Saint. Alec, who has done everything he knows to not be gay, eventually came to accept this part of himself and is now being given space in his Stake and his Church employment to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint—which is deeply healing for Alec and helps us have better tools to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Alec talks about how both his testimony of our Church and being gay are part of his core identity. Both Irene and Alec talk about how “hiding” and “shame” disconnect us and the need to be real, open and honest—and how that creates connection which better helps us help and heal each other. Their marriage is a beautiful love story.
This is a deeply moving podcast to help better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and bring us together as the same human family. Thank you Alec and Irene for being on the podcast. You are two of my heroes and you sharing your story will help thousands.
Please note that their children/spouses are the next episode (398) to share their love and support for their parents.
For More Stories, Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Blaire (married mother of three) is a philosopher specialized in queer studies. She joins us on the podcast to teach about intersex variances and her own intersex journey. Blaire (no relation) does a great job of teaching the facts while also sharing her story.
For me, learning more about intersex variances helps me better understand the road that some walk and how to better support them.
You can check out Blaire’s other podcast episodes on this platform at 335 and 24.
Thanks for being on the podcast Blaire and all your work to bring us together as the same human family. You can connect with Blaire at BlaireOstler.com
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Liz Macdonald (UVU psychology graduate, married mother of three, lives in SLC) shares research from her capstone project on “Exploring the Impact of Parents’ Religious Rigidity on Young Adults Disaffiliating from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’.
Liz (who does not attend Church) is not trying to pull people out of the Church—but rather shares principals and concepts that can bring LDS families together where there are different levels of belief.
I believe our Heavenly Parents are pleased when families stay strong, there in open communication and we see and value the contributions of everyone.
Liz can be reached at lizymacd@gmail.com or parentfromtheinsideout.com. Thanks for being on the podcast Liz. You are doing needed work!
My friend Kate Mower (PhD candidate, University of California Riverside) brings together all the different aspects of their life into a deeply moving and spiritual podcast.
Kate talks about stepping away from the Church at age 17, their suicide attempt at age 19, their path to healing, their education pursuits (including three degrees from the University of Utah), their insights in Eastern Europe History and a deeply spiritual experience resulting in their return to the LDS Church. They also share their experience with bipolar II disorder, PTSD and anxiety. Kate has learned not to feel shame for any of their experiences or attributes—instead they see a wonderful child of Heavenly Parents.
If you don’t feel you belong, are suicidal, or feel shame, please listen to Kate’s story. They will inspire you and give you more hope. Thanks for being on the podcast Kate. You are awesome and bringing much light and goodness into the world.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Rachel Grant (Spain RM, BYU Philosophy Major, Digital Media Manager at Saints Unscripted) shares how we can improve Church culture around asking and answering questions. She teaches how questions need to be normalized in our families and church settings and are part of our journey to understand our religion—and how we should not fear if we or others have sincere questions.
Rachel shares about her own faith crises processing complicated Church topics and why she stays a committed Latter-day Saint. She looks at this a ‘step forward’ versus a ‘step backward’.
If you are working to stay in the Church or help others stay in the Church, please listen to Rachel’s insights. And you can check out Rachel (and the team she works with) good work with Saints Unscripted at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2LBmYIOq6Eu_ZC14i_YkIg
Thanks for being on the podcast Rachel. You are awesome.
Warren Bittner joins us to share his experiences of living as a gay Latter-day Saint through more than 60 years. In 1976, as a teenager, he found himself in the office of the Presiding Bishop of the Church to get help for being gay, where he was put in contact with a list created by President Spencer W Kimball, which if followed would make him no longer gay. The list changed the direction of his life in surprising ways.
Recently, Warren started Sons of Sacrifice. The Sons of Sacrifice training program is for men with same-sex attraction who want to keep their covenants with God, especially of a sexual nature, and remain active members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (see: http://sonsofsacrifice.org)
Warren shares one of the most honest and vulnerable stories ever shared on the podcast. One behalf of all of our listeners, thank you Warren for the courage to share your story. It helps all of know better know how to come together as the same human family.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend TJ Thomas (age 29, RM, Active LDS, BYU and USC Grad, Therapist) shares his journey as a bisexual Latter-day Saint. TJ shares the peace he has felt since accepting his sexual orientation and sharing this part of him with trusted friends and family. Further, TJ shares how his relationship with Heavenly Father and personal revelation has improved since coming out.
You can connect with TJ on Instagram @tjcounseling.
Thank you TJ for being on the podcast and your courage to share your story. Each story is unique and different and you are helping us to better understand the road bisexual Latter-day Saints walk. You are a great man with a wonderful life ahead of you!
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Madison Scholes Belnap (active LDS, married mother of two, Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor) shares her journey to relearn Intuitive Eating, reject diet culture expectations, and heal her relationship with food and her body. Her story is deeply transformative and inspiring. Madison’s insights will help you (and help others) have better tools for making peace with food.
You can learn more about and connect with Madison at https://www.intuitiveeating.org/author/madisonbelnap/
Thank you for being on the podcast Madison. You are courageous, strong, brave, insightful—and your story will help so many.
My friend Jordan Jasmer joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jordan shares coming out to his Mission President (positive experience) and his parents (positive experience). Jordan shares getting engaged to a woman (Jordan told her he was gay early in the relationship) and how that engagement eventually ended. They remain friends.
That experience took Jordan into the most difficult emotional space of his life, filled with self-harm and thoughts of suicide, wondering how he was going find hope and stay an active Latter-day Saint.
Jordan shares dating men and how that has brought him more peace and emotional stability. Jordan talks about his hope to marry a man (who also wants to attend the LDS Church).
You can watch Jordan’s videos at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4wcZ4L0mpkrCiVkrgbbNcg. His goal with these videos are to help form bridges between the LGBTQ community and the LDS church, raise suicide awareness and to bring more perspective to those wanting to understand those who stand in these shoes a little more.
Thanks for being on the podcast Jordan. You have a great life ahead of you.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Warren Osborn (married father of six and award-winning Utah entrepreneur) bravely shares his 4 year journey with ALS (Lou Gehrig’s disease). Warren, who has been open with his story on Facebook and Instagram, shares all he and his wife Tricia have done to treat this disease. It’s a remarkable story.
Warren has shares insights on how to deal with the realities of a potentially fatal disease and advice for others who are on the same road.
Thank you Warren for being on the podcast. You are a hero to me and so many. You are walking this road with courage, grace, determination and honestly. You continue to be an inspiration to many.
My friend Brian bravely shares his journey with pornography which started at age 11 and is now largely solved. Brian shares all he has learned in his journey and the role of Dr. Cameron Staley (Episode 345) and the Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) approach as part of the Life After Pornography Program (check out their website https://www.lifeafterpornography.com/ or their Instagram/Facebook @thelifeafterseries) to finally be in a much better place.
If you want to better understand why you use pornography and have more mindful and compassionate tools to resolve it, please listen to this podcast. Also, please listen if you want to help others.
You can also check out my October 2020 Ensign article https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use
Thank you Brian for bravely sharing your story. It takes the shame out of the equation and allows more to find hope and healing. You are one of my new heroes.
My friend Aly Grunander (active LDS, Married, Age 21) shares her journey starting her mission in New Zealand full of hope and determination and having those dreams crushed with serious emotional health challenges leading to her coming home. Aly, who had no history of emotional health challenges before her mission, talks about that dark time in her life and the shame around her mental health and coming home.
Aly shares her road to healing and Heavenly Father carefully guiding her life. Aly is bravely sharing her story to bring hope to others.
Aly is joined by her husband Keaton. Keaton shares why he feel in love with Aly and is glad he is married to her—and why Keaton sees these difficult chapters in Aly’s life in a positive way that has brought them closer together as a couple with unique tools to help others.
Thank you Aly and Keaton for being on the podcast and your courage to talk about your journey. You are a great couple with a wonderful future!
My friend Bob Rees joins us to share principles and insights to bring our families and congregations together. Bob, who holds a PhD and is the Visiting Professor and Director of Mormon Studies at Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley (see his Wikipedia page for more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees), was a Bishop in a Los Angeles singles ward from 1986-1992 and created a safe place for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Bob has been an LGBTQ ally for four decades with a “long-view” perspective that his helpful, hopeful, and insightful for other Latter-day Saints.
Bob is co-author of the “Family Acceptance Project “(article #7 at https://www.listenlearnandlove.org/articles) an important document to keep Latter-day Saint families with LGBTQ children united, together and strong. Bob shares deeply moving stories of his work with his LGBTQ friends and asks this question when confronted with a situation “what is the most loving thing I can do”?. Bob also talks about Matthew 25 and the doctrine behind this chapter to reach out and love everyone.
I encourage everyone to listen to Bob’s podcast—you will be moved and have more principals to help and support others—and better love like our Savior.
Thank you Bob for being on the podcast and your six decades of service to bring others to Christ, feel His love, and bring us together as the same human family.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Gretchen Seamons (active LDS, RM, married mother of 4 and one grandchild) is working on her PhD in Clinical Psychology and as part of her dissertation wants to interview early release missionaries who came home because of anxiety related issues.
If are an early release missionary (under the age of 30) for anxiety related issues and want to explore being part of her needed research, please contact Gretchen at gseamons@saybrook.edu
Thank you Gretchen for this important work and for your efforts to better understand/solve anxiety and help our missionaries. It was great to have you and your husband Brett on the podcast.
My friend Clark Morley (age 27, applying to grad school, high school teacher), shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Clark shares not accepting this part about him until he realized that he was not going to be able to marry a woman. This sent Clark, for the first time in his life, in to a world without hope and feelings of suicide.
Clark talks about the need to find hope which led him to come out to his parents and family—who have been loving and supportive. Clark talks about his decision to date men and stay involved in the Church and his hopes for the future.
If you are an LGBTQ Latter-day Saint or a parent/local leader wanting to better understand, please listen to Clark’s powerful story. I was deeply moved and I believe you will also be moved.
Thanks for being on the podcast Clark. You are a great man with a wonderful life ahead of you!
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Andy Miller (Uruguay RM, Westminster Graduate, Mid-Twenties, Works in the Airline Industry) shares his journey as a gay Latter-Day Saint.
Some of you may remember Andy's story from the Mormon and Gay website released by the church a few years ago (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/videos/tonyas-story?lang=eng).
Andy shares coming out to his parents Tonya and Dylan before his mission, his mission in Uruguay, dealing with his emotional health, and finding his way through life since. Andy shares his hopes to stay as active as possible in the Church and marry a man. Andy talks about the support of his parents and Stake President who are “walking with him” as he makes his way forward.
Thank you for being on the podcast my friend Andy. You are a great man with a wonderful future. Thanks for the courage to share your story. Glad you have people in your life that love you, see you, and believe in you.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Tom Christofferson joins us to talk about his new book which invites readers to learn more deeply about the Lord’s supernal gift of charity and shows how understanding that gift can change our very discipleship.
We also talk more generally about Tom’s experiences with his former partner, his family, the local church leaders who have influenced him, and his hopes for our young LGBTQ members and their parents.
If you want to better follow Christ’s example and better live His teachings, I encourage you to read and share Tom’s excellent book which is available at:
Deseret Book (https://deseretbook.com/p/a-better-heart) or
Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Better-Heart-Impact-Christs-Pure-ebook/dp/B08MJ3HPZ6)
Thank you Tom for being on the podcast and your life ministry to bring us together as the same human family.
Richard 'Papa' Ostler https://listenlearnandlove.org/lds-authors https://listenlearnandlove.org/gay-lesbian-same-sex-podcasts
My friend Rosie Card joins us to talk about improving the experience for those attending the temple for the first time with her new online book called “House of Light: Your Guide to the Temple”.
Rosie’s book “takes you by the hand” to understand the various stops starting at the recommend desk til leaving the temple. Rosie also, which is consistent with latest Church teachings, talks about understanding and preparing for the five covenants made during the temple and to more fulling engage in the spiritual aspects of the temple.
I wish I had Rosie’s book while serving as a YSA Bishop and for my own children’s temple preparation.
You can purchase the book (digital download only) at https://qnoor.com/collections/temple-goods/products/house-of-light-your-guide-to-the-temple
Rosie also shares her feelings and insights into Heavenly Mother and Her role in her (and our) lives and why Rosie is a committed Latter-day Saint. You can find Rosie on Instagram @Q.Noor and @rosiecard
Thanks for being on the podcast Rosie. You are awesome and have a beautiful and unique life mission. Keep being you!
My friend Jocelyn Fowler (active LDS, married mother of three) joins us to share you journey with multiple mental health challenges. All this resulted a deep dark period of time about 2 years ago with feelings of hopelessness, suicidality and, because of emotional triggers, a decreased connection to her Church community.
Jocelyn shares her journey to find hope and healing through an accurate diagnosis, better coping skills, Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), Exposure Response Prevention (ERP), a supportive husband, and developing better boundaries.
If you are in a dark spot or want to help others in a dark spot, please listen to Jocelyn vulnerable and powerful story. Thank you for being on the podcast Jocelyn. You are awesome and your story is helping a lot of others!
My friend Serena Jamison shares her journey as a transgender women. Serena is in her early 40’s, a convert to the Church, married with four children. She talks about her long-term journey with gender dysphoria and finally accepting herself in November 2019 as transgender. Serena helps us better understand our transgender friends and how their experience is real, authentic and often difficult (but necessary) in their journey to self-acceptance.
Serena's current project is to interview transgender people to hear their voices and she posts these interviews at https://vopserena.medium.com . She can be reached via social media at @SerenaNoelle_ on Twitter, lcbtradesolution@gmail.com by email, and https://www.facebook.com/serena.jamison.22/.
Thank you Serena for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Our church and world is a better place because of you and your contributions.
Richard "Papa" Ostler
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Wendi Jagerson, married mother of two and one grandson, bravely shares her journey with complicated life challenges that started after her successful mission in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area. Wendi starts with her journey with Bipolar II Disorder which was diagnosed in 1994. Wendi talks about how it eventually became very difficult to leave her own home and how she wasn't able to enjoy church or social contact for several years. Wendi talks about her journey to find hope and healing.
Wendi continues with her husband John opening up about his unbelief in 2012 (he is an atheist) and her two adult children also leaving the Church. Wendi talks about how she loves and admires John and how she is keeping the family circle strong and together, while leaving all this at the Savior’s feet. It is a remarkable love story including the birth of their grandson.
Wendi also shares about her MS diagnosis in 2013.
Wendi’s life is very different than she envisioned flying home from her mission in 1994. But Wendi’s story, like many of our stories, is about the realities of mortality—and how to find hope and healing living with those realities—and the role of therapists, medication, friends, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ to give perspective to move forward.
If you are in a tough spot, please listen to Wendi's story. It will give you hope and better tools to move forward. Thank you Wendi for the courage to share your story. You and your family are awesome.
My friends Darcy and Zach Spafford, active LDS and parents of 8, join us to talk about Zach’s 25-year journey to solve porn. Darcy and Zach, who has been clean for 5+ years and serves in his Bishopric, share how they solved unwanted pornography use in their marriage and how they help others do the same.
If you would like to learn more about them and their journey check them out at the resources below. The Self Mastery Podcast ttps://self-mastery-podcast.captivate.fm/listen Instagram https://www.instagram.com/zachspafford.selfmasterycoach/ Website https://www.zachspafford.com/ Free Roadmap download https://www.zachspafford.com/roadmap
Thank you for being on the podcast and your great efforts to give hope and healing to others!
My friends Sam and Autumn Duke, married parents of 3, share growing up with families affected by addiction, mental illness, and suicide. Autumn’s father Klair died in 2003 from alcoholism and addiction. Sam’s mother Jeannie died of suicide in 2019 after 2 decades of severe depression. Sam and Autumn love their parents deeply. They discuss how the Gospel of Jesus Christ helps them to see their parents the way our Heavenly Parents see them. They share their thoughts on the divine worth of every person, and the love, compassion, and hope they have for their parents and families.
They speak directly to suicide and the impact it has had on their lives. If you are suicidal please call the suicide prevention hotline 1-800-273-8255. If you prefer not to call you can also text HOME to 741741 to connect with a Crisis Counselor.
I became aware of Autumn with her wonderful post: https://www.facebook.com/autumn.nielson/posts/10157673692127314. You can also follow her on Instagram where she shares similar thoughts: @autumnduke
If you feel that you or your family is imperfect and aren’t sure you fit the mold for LDS families, please listen to Sam and Autumn. They have great insights on how to help us all come together as the same human family with the healing and unity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The two conference talks referenced in the podcast are from Elder Gay https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/taking-upon-ourselves-the-name-of-jesus-christ and Elder James R. Rasband https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/13rasband
Thank you for being on the podcast Sam and Autumn. You two are awesome. Thanks for your great work to bring us together and create more understanding.
My friends Nate and Elena share their powerful conversation stories, finding each other at BYU after serving missions, and building a wonderful family together over the next two decades.
Nate and Elena share the complexity of having their two oldest children step away from the Church—including their transgender son Glen who they love and support. Nate and Elena, like many other LDS parents of LGBTQ children, are in a middle of a faith-crisis trying to figure out how their children fit into the Church that they love and support.
Nate and Elena are honest, vulnerable, and faithful as they process these complex issues. Their story is still unfolding (like many stories)—but their insights and work to keep the family circle together is inspiring. I hope and pray our Church is able to receive further light and understanding so that more of our LGBTQ members (and their families) feel a greater sense of belonging—increasing the chance they will feel their path is to stay in our Church and partake of its unique and healing doctrine.
Thank you Nate and Elena for being on the podcast. You two represented the best and brightest of our faith. You inspired me and will inspire our listeners!
My friend Audrey Chugg (RM, BYU Grad in Public Health)joins us to talk about identifying and then solving her eating disorder. If you have an eating disorder and want to find hope and tools for recovery, please listen to Audrey's story. If you want to develop a family culture with positive messages about food and body image, please listen to Audrey’s insights. And if you want to help others walking this road, please listen. Thank you for being on the podcast Audrey! You are brave and courageous. Your story will help so many!
My friend Ben Schilaty joins us to talk about his new book from Deseret Book called “A Walk in My Shoes: Questions I'm Often Asked as a Gay Latter-day Saint.” https://deseretbook.com/p/walk-in-my-shoes-questions-im-often-asked-as-a-gay-latterday-saint. Ben also talks about his podcast with Charlie Bird called “Questions from the Closet” https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/questions-from-the-closet/id1504990147
I encourage every Latter-day Saint to read Ben’s book which helps bring us together as the same human family. I also encourage you to listen to Ben and Charlie’s podcast. Great information to better understand and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Thanks for being on the podcast, Ben. You are a great man doing wonderful things. The world is a better place with you in it.
My friend Bradley Talbot, Winnipeg Canada RM and former EFY teacher, shares his story as a gay Latter-Day Saint. Bradley talks about his desire to stay in the Church, close with God, marry a man, and together raise a family having family night, attending Church and reading the Book of Mormon. Bradley is graduating in Psychology and hopes for a career in criminal psychology.
Bradley is the founder of Color the Campus at BYU (see @colorthecampus on IG) to help bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Thank you Bradley for sharing your story. It helps us come together as the same human family and better support each other. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Thanks for helping to make our world a better place.
Please Check Out My New Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend, Carson Perez, joins us to share his remarkable story. Carson begins by reading his spiritual journey, which includes being raised Pentecostal and embracing the Restored Gospel in July 1996, resigning from the LDS Church a year later, being involved with other faith traditions, including earning his Master of Divinity at Yale Divinity School and nearly becoming an Episcopal priest, and being rebaptized back into the LDS Church in August 2019. He shares his love for his partner, Alex, and how they support each other and help each other to be their best, authentic selves. Carson shares how he is actively following Christ and living with integrity, and being supported by his local ward and stake, in San Francisco, California. This episode ends with Carson's personal prayer for LGBTQ understanding.
Carson talks about the unique aspects of our Church that are the foundation for his testimony of and commitment to the Church, and how it helps him come unto Christ. He also discusses feeling welcome and needed in his faith community, the Sunset Ward. Carson shares the evolution of his spiritual journey, from a rigid worldview to an expansive, living faith, and his full acceptance of his homosexuality and the important role that LGBTQ people have in building Zion. He invites everyone to unconditionally love and to effectively support LGBTQ people in every ward, around the world. Carson concludes with the powerful truth that Heavenly Father loves this part about him and that Carson is not a mistake—but created as intended.
Carson describes Emmaus LGBTQ Ministry (a Church-affirming and LGBTQ-affirming LDS ministry) and invites our listeners to join this group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/emmauslgbtq. Emmaus's website is https://www.emmauslgbtq.org/. He is currently writing a book on LDS daily meditations that he hopes will be published eventually. Please reach out to Carson at carson@emmauslgbtq.org, with your questions or comments.
If you are LGBTQ and want to feel hope, and that the world is better with you here, please listen to Carson’s story. If you want to do a better job of helping our LGBTQ members feel welcome and needed, please listen to Carson’s story.
You are a great man, Carson. I was deeply moved and felt a powerful spirit listening to your story. On behalf of all of our listeners, thank you, Carson, for sharing your story.
Please Check Out My New Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My dear friends Cynthia Winward and Susan Hinckley join me to talk about their new podcast At Last She Said It (https://atlastshesaidit.org/), a project aimed at amplifying the voices of LDS women, helping them feel valued and heard, and creating a safe space to share their feelings and experiences.
Cynthia and Susan are active Latter-day Saint women, and we talk about the goals for their podcast, why they feel it is needed, feedback from their listeners, and ideas for improving women's church experiences.
This is a great podcast for LDS women. However, it is also a good podcast for LDS men to better understand women's experiences, and appreciate the contributions they bring to our local congregations.
I encourage all our listeners to subscribe to and share their podcast. It’s awesome. Thanks, Cynthia and Susan, for being on the podcast and all your great work!
Kent Griffiths and Nancy Ayre, a father/daughter team (and dear friends), join with us to share their valuable experience and insights.
Dr. Kent Griffiths earned his Masters and Doctorate of Social Work at the University of Utah and has been a clinical therapist in the Salt Lake area for over 45 years.
Nancy Ayre lives in The Woodlands, Texas with her husband and family, and is the mother and bonus mom of six children. She is currently working on her Masters of Social Work at the University of Houston.
This dynamic duo share insights posted on Riverside Chats (see their blog Riverside Chats: Reflections on life between a therapist and his daughter at riverside-chats.com and their new Facebook page @riverchats), with topics that include essential keys to healthy relationships and good communication, managing toxic relationships, and ways to decrease the suffering of others.
Kent and Nancy also share the tragic yet hope-filled journey they've travelled with their beloved son and brother, Scott, who died by suicide in 2017. They have lived and continue to live through their worst nightmare and share valuable insights on how to help other families walking this road—including how to find a measure of peace and healing along the way.
My friend Patrick Mason (Leonard J. Arrington Chair of Mormon History and Culture at Utah State University and author of “Planted: Belief and Belonging in an Age of Doubt”) joins us to talk about his new book “Restoration: God’s Call to the 21st Century World” available at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Restoration-Gods-Call-21st-Century-World/dp/1953677045.
If you want to be inspired about our future, please read this book and listen to this podcast.
Here is more about the book:
The Restoration began in the spring of 1820, when Joseph Smith saw God the Father and Jesus Christ in a grove of trees in upstate New York. Joseph had questions, and Jesus had answers.
That was two hundred years ago. As the Restoration enters its third century, the world has new questions. A loving God has answers. In Restoration, scholar and author Patrick Mason reflects on what it means for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to participate in the ongoing Restoration. Every generation must rediscover the gospel anew, and this book breathes new life into well-worn terms and phrases. What does it mean to restore Israel ? How can a church with less than one percent of the world s population be true ? What baggage have we picked up these past two centuries, and how do we move forward with confidence, relevance, and impact? The Restoration was intended to bless all of our Heavenly Parents children, especially the marginalized and vulnerable among us. This book will inspire and challenge you to rethink, recommit, and respond to God s call to the 21st-century world.
Thank you for being on the podcast Patrick and your efforts to being to life our the restoration.
My friend McKay Bryson joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. I became aware of McKay as he was a guest on Ben Schilaty’s and Charlie Bird’s podcast called “Questions From the Closet”.
McKay was on Episode 37 which I encourage all to listen to and share https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/is-there-a-place-for-me-in-the-church/id1504990147?i=1000501822009
McKay, who served a mission to Thailand and is graduating in Information Systems, shares coming out in May 2019—and what led him to this decision. McKay has wonderful, powerful, and unique insights into the life of a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint and how to get better love and support our LGBTQ friends on the unique and difficult road they walk. If you are LGBTQ or what to better understanding and support our LGBTQ members, please listen to and share McKay’s podcast.
Thanks for being on the podcast McKay. I was deeply moved by your spiritual maturity, goodness, doctrinal insights and your good heart to help and bless others. You have a great life ahead of you.
Please Check Out My New Book At: Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Ryan Michael Painter joins us to talk about his new book called “The Unexpected Son” which talks about his gay LDS father Michael, who was the first AIDS death in Utah when Michael was 7, and his LDS mother Patti. The book is at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Unexpected-Son-Ryan-Michael-Painter/dp/1735051209
Michael, in his 40s, talks about his love for both his father and mother (who were divorced shortly after Michael’s birth but remained friends) and how is has found peace with the complexity of his family situation. It is a beautiful story of love as captured by this review on Amazon:
“This book is truly a testament of love. I was particularly moved by Patti’s narrative. There are so many times during this story when anger, fear, or resentment would have been the natural reaction. Instead, this is a story of love, compassion, and charity during the most challenging of circumstances. Lessons we could all learn from. Ryan Painter has artfully told his family’s story. He has managed to balance the heavy significant subject matter with more lighthearted antidotes to keep the pace from feeling weighted.”
I became aware of Ryan and his book from this excellent story from Peggy Fletcher Stack https://www.sltrib.com/artsliving/2020/11/29/different-type-ghost/
Thank you my friend Ryan for being on the podcast and teaching us how to better love and support everyone. I encourage everyone to read your book and listen to this podcast.
My friend Valerie Nicole Green shares her 50 year journey with gender dysphoria leading to transitioning over the past few years. Valerie, who is a widow with 5 children and 6 grandchildren, talks about how her local congregation is helping her feel welcome and loved.
Valerie is one of the founders and co-chairs of Emmas LGBTQ Ministry (check out: https://www.facebook.com/groups/emmauslgbtq) a place for Latter-day LGBTQ members and allies.
If you are transgender or a parent of a transgender or non-binary child, please listen to this podcast. It will help you! If you are one of my transgender friends, this podcast will also help you along your path and know that our Heavenly Parents love you and will give your personal revelation.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Laurie Rodriguez (mother of 3, two of which identify as LGBQ) and Dr. Mary Elizabeth Wilde (integrative pediatrician, mother of 8) talk about how to support LGBTQ family members. These two sisters have unique and powerful insights from different perspectives: Laurie with a direct and personal one as a mother with LGBTQ children, and Mary with a professional/clinical one as a pediatrician who supports families.
If you are a parent, friend or local leader and want to better understand the research and personal stories on how to help LGBTQ family members, please listen to this podcast. It will give you better tools to improve LGBTQ emotional health and keep the family circle together.
You can learn more about Dr. Wilde at https://drmarywilde.com or connect with her on IG @drmarywilde.
Connect with Laurie Rodriguez through the Chicago Affirmation Chapter at https://www.facebook.com/AffimationChicagoChapter/ or at laurie.illions@gmail.com
Other resources mentioned: • The Family Acceptance Project at https://familyproject.sfsu.edu/publications or https://www.listenlearnandlove.org/articles (article #7)
• Debra Oaks Coe’s article https://www.ldsliving.com/Preventing-Youth-Suicide-in-Our-Wards-and-Families/s/88081 Debra Oaks Coe quotes Brene Brown from these sources: Huffington Post, updated December 6, 2017, “Brene Brown On Why Courage, Vulnerability and Authenticity Have to Be Practiced” Psychology Today, Aug. 2012. “Connect To Thrive – Social Connection Improves Health, Well-Being & Longevity” by Emma M Seppala Ph.D. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/feeling-it/201208/connect-thrive Brene Brown, Daring Greatly, p. 140 Penguin Group US
• Sara Hughes-Zabawa (whose work is mentioned at [28:00]) can be found at https://sarahugheszabawa.com.
My friend Jake Berry, Joined by his friend Nic Quilter, shares his life story. Jake starts with having Cerebral Palsy since birth, difficult situations, setbacks, positive experiences and receiving personal revelation. This is the first time I’ve listened to someone with Cerebral Palsy and I learned so much.
Jake talks about being inactive until moving to Arizona and being fellowshipped by the missionaries, a dear aunt and wonderful ward members like Nic leading to full activity and a call to serve a full-time mission to Upstate New York.
Jake bravely talks about a spiritual prompting to open up to his Mission President about his past which led to his mission ending after 12 months. I was deeply moved as Jake shared this part of his story.
Jake talks having Cerebral Palsy and being LGBTQ and his desire to feel loved, accepted and a feeling of belonging when people know these aspects of his essence. Aspects that Jake looks as a blessing and hopes that others will accept and support --- and not pull away from him.
I was deeply moved as this good man bravely opened up his heart to be vulnerable with myself, our friend Nic and the listeners. I am filled with love, support and compassion for Jake --- someone who is a hero to me!
Thanks for being on the podcast Jake. This world is a better place with you here. Thanks for helping us feel hope and God’s love.
Please Check Out My New Book At:
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Rebekah Clark (married mother of 3) shares her journey with OCD. Rebekah, in her 30’s, has been walking this road since age 6. Rebekah talks about the many OCDs that are or have been part of her life including checking, scrupulosity, relationship and "just right" OCD. She shares learning about these OCDs, the impact in her life, and working with a therapist to solve them. Rebekah also talks her husband’s wonderful support and how she now looks at her emotional health challenges as a “super power” to connect with and help others.
If you’d like to reach Rebekah, please e-mail her at rebekahdsc@yahoo.com or on FB at https://www.facebook.com/rebekah.d.clark
Thank you Rebekah for being on the podcast. You are brave, strong and courageous. Thank you for sharing your story. It will help so many!
Addendum to the episode from Rebekah: I realized that I should have explained that the "no reassurance thing" only applies in a situation where a trained therapist is helping the patient through ERP on that particular topic. In my case when I was eleven and struggling with scrupulosity I think my Mom probably did the right thing to reassure me because we were not yet working with a therapist. Not reassuring causes a HUGE increase in anxiety so understanding when and how to go about that would really need to be led by a therapist. And ERP tackles one compulsion at a time, starting with the easier ones and moving up so the therapist might have a family member stop reassuring on one subject but continue as normal on another subject. Also, it would really be best if the person with OCD knew in advance that the family member wouldn't be reassuring them on that topic. And I wish I had said it a little differently on the podcast - instead of saying, "You'll just have to learn to live with the uncertainty," you can say, "I love you so much and you know I can't answer that question but I'm right here with you." So even when the person with OCD is working on ERP and you can't reassure them of a specific thing, you can still reassure them of your love and you can still reassure them that you understand what they are doing is extremely difficult and brave. And that is helpful reassurance as they tackle this very difficult task of fighting the OCD.
My friend Tony Fieldson (married father of two, active LDS) joins us to talk about his miraculous conversion story, and of his work to build bridges of understanding between members of the church and critics of the church. His goal is not to convert everyone to the Church or to demonize critics—but to bring us together as the same human family in respectful conversations. Tony is honest about his own mini-faith crisis and why he nevertheless stays a believing and committed Latter-day Saint.
Tony's work is consistent with Elder Cook’s statement from the October 2019 General Conference: “Unity and diversity are not opposites. We can achieve greater unity as we foster an atmosphere of inclusion and respect for diversity.”
Please check out Tony’s YouTube channel, The Restoration Table, at: https://youtube.com/channel/UCviVDh4U9YNFNOiFA1sitXA and his Restoration Table Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/720024265292786. You can also find Tony on FB at https://www.facebook.com/tony.fieldson
My friend Andrea Forsythe bravely shares her story that includes a mental breakdown (or "break open" as she likes to call it), caused from mental health challenges exacerbated by continuously ‘hustling for worth’ as a woman in the church. Andrea talks about the path to heal from the pain and also how this pain/heartache has brought an awareness and desire to see, validate, and serve marginalized groups in our Church and society. Andrea has powerful insights on how we all can do better.
Andrea, who hopes for changing in our church, stays a committed Latter-day Saint. You can connect with Andrea on Facebook at www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=660393956 or Instagram @andreasitterudforsythe.
Thank you Andrea for being on the podcast. You are awesome and courageous. Our Church and society is better off with people like you in it bringing us together as the same human family!
My friend Adam Baker (Masters degree as a Physicians Assistant from Idaho State University)shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Adam talks about life before his successful mission in Wisconsin (including being hyper-religion to overcome being gay), getting a degree at BYU-Idaho, and starting to come out to roommates and family members. Adam talks about learning to accept this part of himself (partly by working with great therapists like Cameron Staley) as a gift from God, eliminating shame---which helped him stop the suicidal ideation that was part of his journey for a few years.
Adam has a strong relationship with his Heavenly Father and the Savior. Adam also has a testimony that Jesus is at the head of our Church. Adam shares his hope to marry a man, have a family, desire to fully participate in and contribute to the Church he loves and supports.
You can find Adam on IG @adambakeridaho Thanks for being on the podcast Adam. You are a great man. Our Church and world are better with you part of it. You have a great life ahead of you!
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Thomas McConkie joins us to talk about his new online course called “Transformations of Faith”—a contemporary expression of timeless Wisdom as understood through the lens of the Restored Gospel. The course was jointly developed by two non-profits: Faith Matters (https://faithmatters.org/) and Lower Lights (https://lowerlightswisdom.org/)
In the podcast Thomas explains why he developed the course, who the course is for, the nature of the content, and how it brings hope and healing. He even walks us through some practices in the conversation!
I encourage our listeners to enroll in this course. It will give you tools to better activate the possibilities of our gospel (especially around healing and finding peace) in your life.
Please go to transformationsoffaith.org to learn more or enroll. Use the discount code HOLIDAYS for 25% off.
Thank you, our friend Thomas, for being on the podcast and your unique and needed life work to bring hope, healing, love, peace and unity.
My friends Fiona and Terryl join us to introduce their new book “All Things New: Rethinking Sin, Salvation, and Everything in Between”. Fiona and Terryl authored three other books: The God Who Weeps, The Christ Who Heals, and The Crucible of Doubt.
This book talks about our beautiful restored doctrine and how to better apply it in our lives to heal our woundedness, have more hopeful view of the future, power of Heavenly Parents whose love is unconditional, and how to better love everyone.
I encourage all our listeners to buy this book and listen to this podcast. I promise you it will give you more peace, hope, and better use the Atonement of Jesus to heal from the woundedness that we all experience as part of mortality.
The book is available at Deseret Book (https://deseretbook.com/p/all-things-new-rethinking-sin-salvation-and-everything-in-between) and Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/All-Things-New-Rethinking-Everything/dp/1953677029)
Thanks for being on the podcast and for your important work to bring hope, healing and unity.
My friend Adam Brulotte joins us to share his remarkable story. Adam’s story includes coming out as gay to his parents, his remarkable conversion story to the LDS Church, and then his journey as a gay member of the Church which includes supportive leaders, members and friends. Adam looks at being gay as a gift from God and something neither God or Adam are ashamed of.
Adam’s leaders not only listened to and learned from Adam, but put him to work in the Church. Adam has served in many callings including his current calling as the First Counselor in his Branch Presidency. Adam has a feeling of belonging that all Latter-day Saints should feel in their congregations.
Thank you for being on the podcast Adam. Your story will help so many. You are a great man and wonderful member of the Church.
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Al Carraway joins us from her new home in upstate New York. Al, who was on Episode 114, talks about her new book “Wildly Optimistic” and several recent powerful and vulnerable blog posts.
If you want to find hope during difficult times, please listen to this podcast. Al has great insights to help all of us grow closer to our Heavenly Father, better support each other, and find strength during difficult experiences.
Al is one of my personal heroes. I encourage everyone to read her book and blogs which can be found at: https://alcarraway.com/. On behalf of all of us, thank you Al for your beautiful life mission to bring others to Christ through our restored Church.
My friend Jace Ure, age 15, joins us to share their journey as a non-binary Latter-day Saint. Jace is joined by their parents Kerin and Aimee, deeply committed Latter-day Saints, who share how they are supporting Jace—who are new on this road and Jace came out only three months ago.
This is a great podcast of “living your religion” when faced with unique family situations—resulting in the Ure family coming together in a beautiful way. It’s really a love story.
If you are parents of a LGBTQ child, please listen to this podcast. It will give you tools and insights to better support your child. If you are LGBTQ, it will give you hope.
Thank you Ure family for being on the podcast. I was deeply moved hearing your story. You are all awesome
My friend Ashley Rankin (Registered Nurse) joins us to share her two year marriage that ended in divorce about two years ago. Ashley shares why she felt the marriage was the right decision in the beginning, the progression of how things started to change, and how it ended a few months before their second anniversary.
Ashley shares the pain and trauma that resulted from both her marriage and divorce process. She also shares a few lessons she has learned on her road to healing in the two years since her divorce.
If you are in a dark place and need someone who can give you tools to find hope and a way forward, please listen to Ashley's podcast. You can reach out to her with any questions, or if you need support, on facebook or Instagram (@ashley__rankin). Ashley is brave, courageous, and strong with a deep understanding of her relationship with her Heavenly Parents and the role the Savior and His Atonement play in grief, healing, and finding hope after hardship.
Episode 350: Jordan Stuart, Age 30, Married Father of Three, Faith Crisis by Richard Ostler
My friend Jon Gossett joins us to talk about his efforts to prevent suicide and the organization he started lifesworthlivingfoundation.net
If you are suicidal or want to help others, please listen to this podcast with Jon, check out his organization and his podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lifes-worth-living-foundation-podcast/id1503178918
Thank you for being on the podcast my good friend Jon and you efforts to save lives. You are making a huge difference for good.
Hayden Paul (episode 328 and 340) returns with his former therapist Bo Buchi CMHC to talk about Bo’s clinical expertise to help solve Hayden’s porn use.
Bo (active LDS, masters degree, licensed clinical therapist) has great insights to help others solve porn. These two men talk about practical clinical tools and the power of our Savior Jesus Christ to end porn use.
To solve porn takes a team effort. Please listen to this podcast to gain additional insights from a clinical therapist to end porn use or help others. Hayden can be reached at hayden@istandatthedoor.com; and Bo at BoBuchiMHC@gmail.com or CobaltCounselor.com
You can also check out my October Ensign article on solving porn: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use
Thank you Hayden and Bo for all your great work to help others solve porn use. This is a powerful podcast that will help many
My friend Anthony Sweat, artist and associate professor of Church history and doctrine at BYU, joins us to talk about his new book “Repicturing the Restoration”. This wonderful book is twenty-five paintings that portray previously unpictured Restoration scenes, coupled with historical and artistic explanations.
It includes The First Visions, Jane Neyman and the First Baptism for the Dead, The Chamber of Father Whitmer, Joseph and William Fight and Forgive, and (my favorite) The Ordination of Q. Walker Lewis.
If you’d like to increase your faith of and testimony in the Restoration, please read this book and share it with others. It is available at deseretbook.com/p/rsc-repicturing-the-restoration-new-art-to-expand-our-understanding?variant_id=188197-hardcover or www.amazon.com/Repicturing-Restoration-New-Expand-Understanding/dp/1944394982
You can follow Brother Sweat on IG @brotheranthonysweat and check out his work at anthonysweat.com/.
Thank you for being on the podcast Brother Sweat and your unique life ministry to help others unto Christ though our restored Church.
My friend Cameron Staley (active LDS) is a clinical psychologist living in Idaho helping others with mental health concerns including unwanted pornography viewing.
If you want to end unwanted pornography use or better help others, PLEASE listen to this podcast. Cameron has unique research-based insights to help others solve this concern.
More on his online self-directed program for pornography can be found here at Life After Pornography (https://www.lifeafterpornography.com/).
Please check out his TEDx talk on Changing the Narrative Around the Addiction Story (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNGg5SMcyhI) and his Facebook page The Life After Series (https://www.facebook.com/thelifeafterseries) with additional resources for mental health and pornography concerns.
Also check out his Book of Mormon novel In The Hands of the Gadiantons (https://www.amazon.com/Hands-Gadiantons-Cameron-Staley/dp/1524411566/).
You can also check out my Ensign article at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use
Thank you for being on the podcast Cameron. I was deeply moved with the insights you shared to help others end pornography. You bring fresh perspective with new and helpful tools to end porn use in the lives of our great Latter-day Saints friends walking this road.
My friend Abby Weidmer joins us to share her journey with emotional health (relationship OCD and scrupulosity). Abby first dealt with this on her mission about 10 years ago in the Belgium Netherlands mission and then again when she got engaged to her husband Kevin. Abby has learned so much as she faced this head-on and managing it on this difficult road.
Abby felt impressed to start a blog to share her story (thesoulofthings.com). Please check it out! You can also contact her about sharing your story on this blog. And you can follow Abby on Instagram @the.soulofthings.
Thank you Abby for being on the podcast and bravely sharing your story. You are brave, courageous—and that helps others!
My friends Miranda McQuarrie, Brooke Taylor, Katelyn Garcia and Derek Baker (all BYU students with OCD) join us to talk about their various forms of OCD (including scrupulosity, relationship OCD, harm OCD, pedophilia OCD, sexual orientation OCD, and existential OCD). They are brave and courageous as they share their stories.
To help others, they started The Real OCD Club which can be found on Instagram @realocdbyu and Facebook at www.facebook.com/Real-OCD-BYU-111644527368656
You can read Derek’s Ensign article at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2019/09/young-adults/my-battle-with-religious-ocd
If you suffer from OCD, wonder if you may have it, or want to help others who suffer, please listen to their podcast and connect with the club. They want you to know that they are not professionals and they are not trained therapists. They just want to offer help and resources as support to those who want to learn more and to those who are struggling. You can reach Miranda on Facebook at “Miranda McQuarrie”, Brooke at @brookie_tay on Instagram, Katelyn @katelyncgarcia on Instagram, and Derek @dkbaker8 on Instagram.
Thanks for being on the podcast. All four of you are awesome. Your needed work is helping many.
My dear friend Greg and Krista Evans join to talk about their wonderful son Luke (https://www.hamptongentry.com/obituary/luke-evans). They talk about his brutal journey with his emotional health, how everyone fought to keep him alive, and how his mental illness led to his passing.
Greg and Krista are PROUD of Luke as he bravely fought his illness and share more about the accomplished young man. Krista blogs about Luke at https://evansdailygriefing.blogspot.com/. I encourage everyone to read her powerful blogs.
Thank you Greg and Krista for being on the podcast (and Luke as we felt your presence) and the courage to share your story as it helps all of us. You two are brave and courageous and have wonderful insights that are helping others.
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Hayden (episode 328) returns with his dear wife Savannah to talk to other couples working to solve pornography. Savannah has great insights for a partner working to solve pornography including how she handled Hayden's slip-up once they were engaged.
Dozen have reached out to Hayden and Savannah since Episode 328, and they started their own podcast to help other couples. Please see www.istandatthedoor.com.
If you want to solve pornography in your own life, help someone else, or navigate a relationship where one is working to solve pornography, please listen to this episode. Hayden and Savannah have hope-filed/non-shaming insights through the Atonement of Jesus Christ to help others.
Dear friends, please have hope you can put this behind you. You are one day closer. Check out my October Ensign article at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography
Thank you Hayden and Savannah for being on the podcast. You two are awesome. You can reach Hayden at hayden@istandatthedoor.com and Savannah at savannahstowell@gmail.com
Dina Alexander, noted LDS author and speaker, joins us to talk about her organization called Education and Empower Kids (https://educateempowerkids.org/). Dina talks about the books she has written on how to teach your children about sex and avoiding pornography in healthy and non-shaming ways.
Dina has series of books on these topics that are age appropriate with workbooks to help parents have these important discussions.
If you are a parent, grandparent or a local leader who wants better tools to teach about sex and tools to help others solve pornography, please listened to Dina’s remarkable insights.
Please check out https://educateempowerkids.org/ to connect with Dina and for a list of her books and other resources.
Thank you my friend Dina for being on the podcast. Your work is so needed.
Sam Bird (RM from Bolivia and Columbia, BYU Business Student, age 21) talks about supporting and learning from his older brother Charlie. Sam recounts, on their Mount Kilimanjaro hike, where Charlie came out as gay. Sam shares the story from his perspective—it’s a beautiful story of too close brothers staying close. How nothing changed.
Sam shares what he has learned, advice to other family members, insights into Christ’s teaching to ‘Love One Another’, and his love/respect for Charlie.
If you are a family member with an LGBTQ sibling, please listen to Sam’s podcast. He will give you insights and better tools to support, love and accept your LGBTQ family members.
Thank you for being on the podcast Sam. Both you and Charlie are great men and give me hope for the future of our Church and society.
Please read Charlie’s book at https://deseretbook.com/p/without-the-mask-coming-out-and-coming-into-gods-light-ppr and listen to Charlie and Ben’s podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/questions-from-the-closet/id1504990147
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Bryce Larsen, Utah State grad with career in marketing, shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Bryce shares his hopes that his mission (which he loved and blessed many) would make him straight. After returning, Bryce released that he is gay and gradually has come to a place of acceptance. Bryce shares his beautiful coming out letter from May 2018 to his family (and how they responded with love and support).
Bryce feels his path is to find a life partner and plans to marry a man, stay close with his Heavenly Parents and his family. Bryce’s 2020 New Year’s resolution is be to authentic and being on the podcast is part of that commitment
Thank you for being on the podcast Bryce. You are a great man, full of love and kindness for everyone, and with a great life ahead of you. Honored to have you on the podcast.
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Dr. Debra Theobald McClendon, a psychologist who specializes in treating those with Religious OCD (Scrupulosity), joins us to answer questions about scrupulosity that were gathered from social media prior to the podcast.
This is a great episode to better understand scrupulosity and help others who may be dealing with it—from one of the top experts in the Latter-day Saint community on this topic.
In the podcast we talk about some available resources, such as her new online course with 6 hours of video lecture that covers scrupulosity research and treatment. Please see all of these resources at debramcclendon.com.
Dr. McClendon is the author of two Ensign articles, covering anxiety and scrupulosity. For a good foundational introduction to our podcast topic check out: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2019/09/young-adults/understanding-scrupulosity-religious-ocd
In addition, Dr. McClendon and her husband, Richard J. McClendon, have co-authored a book on strengthening marriage: "Commitment to the Covenant: Strengthening the Me, We, and Thee of Marriage." Dr. McClendon has previously taught as an adjunct faculty member at both Brigham Young University and Utah Valley University.
On a personal note, Dr. McClendon enjoys working-out, reading, mountain views, doing puzzles, reading to her kiddos, sitting on the deck in the evening with her hubby, and eating spicy garden salsa and dark chocolate with mint (but not together).
Check out her online courses and other resources at debramcclendon.com.
Thank you for being on the podcast Dr. McClendon and all you to do help and heal others!
My friend Blaire Ostler (no relation) updated our listeners to help us better understand our bisexual and non binary friends. The first part of the podcast is educational to help us understand the labels people use to describe their identities and orientations. Labels matter. And using labels is key to helping our LGBTQ friends feel loved and accepted.
The second part of the podcast is Blaire bravely sharing her experiences as a Latter-day Saint—including difficult experiences and some recent hopeful experiences. If you want to better help LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and honor our leaders charge to be more inclusive, please listen to Blaire share her experience. I wish I knew the things Blaire taught many years ago. It would have helped me better minister and support all of our Heavenly Parents children.
You can reach Blaire (and read more of her excellent work) at blaireostler.com
Thank you for being on the podcast my friend Blaire. You are awesome!
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Colby Lowe (RM, Age 26) share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. I became aware of Colby when I read his excellent coming out post on November 29, 2016. Here is a link to that post: https://www.facebook.com/colby.lowe1/posts/10154146718078494. Colby talks about his relationship with the Church (not currently fully participating), his excellent relationship with his Heavenly Father, and his mother Cindy.
Colby also talks about his health include colon cancer, lymph node cancer and Crohn’s. Colby talks about the differences between cancer (that needs to be carved out) and being gay (that is part of his essence). This is an important distinction and Colby has firsthand insights and personal revelation and he knows both roads.
If you’d like to help towards Colby medical expenses, here is his GoFundMe: https://gf.me/u/y5ks4z
Thanks for being on the podcast Colby. I was deeply toughed by you and your strong spirit and goodness. You are a great man and are one of my heroes. Thank you for bringing hope and healing to so many others.
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Luke Romney (gay) and Madi Hawes (ally), both freshman at BYU, share starting an Instagram account supporting BYU queer freshman (who will be the class of 2024). Luke shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint who grew up in SLC and wants to go to divinity school with a focus on environmental humanities. Madi, who grew up in Tacoma, Washington and wants to be a pediatrician, shares her story to be an ally to this group who walks a difficult road. I was deeply moved and impressed with Luke and Madi. Two great human beings with strong relationships with their Heavenly Parents and a desire to serve others. They are wonderful and courageous and are honoring their baptism covenants with their IG to bear, mourn and comfort. Honored to have them on the podcast.
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Reed and Amber Blackburn share losing their daughter Tessa who was stillborn on May 16, 2018. They learned she was going to be stillborn during a checkup around 35 weeks.
Reed and Amber talk openly about the tragedy of losing a child, a few days with Tessa before the funeral, and how they are healing and moving forward on this brutal road.
If you have lost a child, want to help someone who has lost a child, or just want to be inspired, please listen to this podcast. Reed (who is a seminary teacher at Cottonwood High in SLC) and Amber are two of my heroes and have great insight on how to help others.
Thank you Reed and Amber for sharing your story. You two are awesome
My long-time friend Doug Cartwright shares his remarkable journey to identity and solve trauma, overcome feelings of being suicidal, finding spirituality, and self-love. Doug is brutally honest about his own story including being survivor of sexual assault, defined by being overweight, an early-release missionary, his Dad’s death, and trying to find happiness through financial success. All this led to a period of time where Doug because suicidal and worked hard to address and resolve difficult issues leading him to a great place and the ability to help others.
Doug has developed a program to help you learn to love yourself and find your purpose as you navigate big life changes. He has compiled all the very best tools and techniques he discovered while taking 2 years off his life and traveling the world seeking spirituality and God. For our listeners he has never offered it this low before with a 65% discount. If you are suicidal or need better tools to find peace and self-love, please consider Doug’s course. www.thedailyshifts.com/LLL you can also download his app “ The Daily Shifts” in the apple App Store . He also responds to every DM on Instagram, you can follow him @Doug_Cartwright. Doug’s efforts were key to Braden Orgill ending his feelings of suicide (Episode 326).
Thank you Doug for being on the podcast. You are a great man and friend. Thank you for your needed efforts.
My friend Jake Young (currently studying Entrepreneurship at BYU), shares reasons why he believes and wants to stay in our Church and things he disagrees with and hopes will change. Jake represents many of our Gen Z members with a world view on fairness, equality and reaching out those on the margins—and see where their faith communities sometimes stumble in these areas.
Jake is deeply spiritual and student of the scriptures and is serious about his spiritual journey and loving everyone. I believe he represents the future of our Church and society. I was deeply moved listening to this good man honestly share his feelings and insights into the doctrine of Christ to love and support everyone.
I believe we need to do a better job to make space for the men and women like Jake Young in our Church. Good members who do not agree with some aspects of our history and some of our current positions—but have testimonies of our restored doctrine. And doing much to honor their baptism covenants to sit with and lift the burdens of others.
You can find Jake on IG at @jakeballa5.
Thank you for being on the podcast Jake. You are wise, thoughtful, kind, and with a spiritual maturity that is remarkable for a man you age. Keep being you. The world needs people like you.
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Hayden and Sydney join us to share their feelings about helping and serving marginalized groups of people. Hayden, who had Ben Schilaty as his EFY counselor and is now taking his BYU class, shares his journey to better support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints.
Hayden and Sydney have wonderful insights into how we can improve our culture to help everyone feel more welcome, valued, and loved. They also talk about Bryan Stevenson’s (author of "Just Mercy") speech at BYU gave them better principals to support others. Bryan’s four principals are: Find ways to get more proximate to those who are neglected and living in the margins. Change the narratives underneath the policy issues we grapple with. Stay hopeful Be willing to do things that are uncomfortable and inconvenient. Source: https://news.byu.edu/news/byu-forum-creating-justice
Thank you Hayden and Sydney for being on the podcast helping us better help others feel welcome, understood, and needed in LDS congregations and society.
My friend Hayden Paul (age 24, married, United States Marine) shares his story with pornography. Hayden, who started viewing porn at age 13, shares using daily before his mission, being free from pornography during his mission to Budapest Hungry, but then relapsing soon after his mission.
Hayden’s YSA Stake President, Jordan Clements, developed a ‘modified addiction recovery’ which was key to ending Hayden’s porn use. Hayden spoke in his YSA Stake Conference about this topic and each Elder Quorum. Hayden has become a key mentor to help others solve pornography.
Hayden’s story is in this Church News article: https://www.thechurchnews.com/members/2020-02-18/pornography-addiction-family-history-indexing-healing-blessings-174645
I’ve had hundreds of interviews with YSA’s about porn and several podcasts on this topic. However, Hayden’s insights, tools, analogies, and use of the Atonement of Jesus Christ bring a unique and fresh perspective to this topic. You can reach Hayden at hrpaul@me.com
Please listen to this podcast on solving porn. If will help you as a parent, local church leader or someone who wants to solve porn.
Please also check out my October Ensign Article on this topic (page 72 or https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use).
Thank you Hayden for being on the podcast and for the great work you and President Clements did in the Murray YSA Stake. You have a great life mission to bring hope, better tools and belief others can end pornography use.
My friend Valerie Payne (RM from Peru, Masters in Social Work from BYU) joins us to talk about ‘finding unity through seeking understanding, connection, healing, and love’. Valerie is practicing this in her life with her podcast ( https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/finding-unity/id1498082517) and her private clinical practice (https://www.valeriepaynetherapy.com/). Please check out and follow Valerie on Instagram at @finding.unity
Thank you Valerie for being on the podcast and all your great work to heal divisions and bring us together as the same human family!
My long-time friend Braden Orgill (Active LDS, RM, Age 26, Married) shares what led up to him considering suicide, self harming, and how he was able to pull himself out of that dark space---which started with a conversation with a mutual friend Doug Cartwright.
Braden, who is now a Keto Lifestyle Coach (check out https://ketowithbraden.com/), had great insights into ‘you are enough’, ‘own your own story’ and ‘finding peace and joy now’. Braden also shares falling in love with his wife Emily and how that relationship is built on trust, vulnerability, honestly and common goals---a beautiful love story.
You can find Braden on twitter at @bradenorgill and IG @bradenorgill and FB at facebook.com/braden.orgill
Thanks for being on the podcast Braden. You have a unique life mission to bring hope and healing to others. Thanks for having the courage to share your story.
My friend Drew Young, author of “The Meaning of Your Mission” (amazon.com/Meaning-Your-Mission-Lessons-Principles/dp/1462138063/) which we discuss on Episode 276, joins us to share his experience with pornography based on his brave Facebook post https://www.facebook.com/mrdrewyoung1/posts/2954728144653099.
I deeply admire and respect Drew for openly discussing his experience with pornography. Not only does this help him, but it allows Drew to help so many to remove the shame and stigma of pornography (one of the first steps to solving it).
We also discuss my recent Ensign article (October YSA Digital version) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use
If you want to solve pornography or help others, please listen to this podcast. Thank you Drew for being on the podcast and all your great work to help others feel the hope and healing of our Savior. Please follow Drew’s great comment and insights on FB www.facebook.com/mrdrewyoung1 and IG @mrdrewbyoung
My friend Ashely, age 19 and headed on her mission in December to Poland, shares about improving Latter-day Saint culture. To do this, Ashley bravely started @certain.woman on Instagram (please follow this excellent account).
Ashley talks about how to improve our culture around better valuing women, better approaches to resolving sexual sin, improved insights into pornography use, kind insights into our LGBTQ members, and creating a loving framework for those working through questions.
Ashely is brave for creating a platform for these much needed discussions. Thank you Ashley for being on the podcast and all your great work to help us better come unto Christ and meet these needs of Latter-day Saints walking a more difficult road. You will be a great missionary!
My friends Parker and Alex (RMs from Nova Scotia and SLC/Fiji, respectively) share their journey as gay Latter-Day Saints. Alex and Parker shares coming to terms with their sexual orientation, working through dark chapters, and finding hope through their relationship with Heavenly Parents and the Savior.
Alex and Parker found each other about 5 years ago and were married on July 11th, 2020 in Alex’s backyard with Parker’s father Jack officiating (Jack who is active LDS shared his story in Episode 313).
Alex and Parker are two great men doing the best they can in their lives. They are committed to each other, deeply spiritual and giving back to the community. They are leaders in Peculiar and its mission to 'inspire and empower parents and families to unconditionally love and embrace their LGBTQ+ children.”
You can learn more about Peculiar at https://thepeculiar.org and https://www.facebook.com/groups/293513151325005.
You can connect with Parker and Alex on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/guaconmysock_/ (Parker) — https://www.instagram.com/alex.v.hone/ (Alex) — https://www.instagram.com/hadley.hone/ (couples account)
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
Luke and Andrew were members of the Corner Canyon State Championship basketball team (2019) during the time that Luke came out as gay (Luke was also the Student Body President). Andrew (who is leaving on his LDS mission in October to Belgium) and Luke (who is dating men and attending the University of Utah) talk about how they continue to be best friends. Nothing change. How they honor and support each other --- even with different feelings on some issues.
I talk about Luke and Andrew on page 270 in my book (https://www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773) and how, when I was in high school, I withdrew from the gay people and wish I could go back and be like Andrew.
I believe these two men are using Christ teachings and His example to show love and support to each other and come together as the same human family. And how to reduce division and divisiveness that I don’t believe are part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Luke and Andrew are two outstanding men who have great lives ahead of them. Thanks for being on the podcast. Your example will help many.
Please check out my new Book
Deseret Book: www.deseretbook.com/p/listen-learn-and-love-embracing-lgbtq-latter-day-saints
Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1462135773
My friend Mike Gregson bravely shares his life story. Mike, who turns 40 in late 2020, is married and has three kids. Mike shares difficult chapters starting with High School in Salt Lake where Mike went from a key member of the basketball team with good grades, to leaving the basketball team, poor grades, depression, alcohol and marijuana. Mike talks about how reading the Book of Mormon and then prayer changed his life and opened the door to serving a successful mission in Indiana.
Mike returned from his mission on cloud 9 but after a divorce found himself outside the Church living the club screen leading to significant challenges including jail time. Mike shares, while finishing plans for his suicide hating himself, feeling God’s love for him. He talks about realizing his worth and value --- even in the middle of overwhelming issues. Feeling God’s love transformed Mike and led him out of this darkness and in a great spot in a wonderful marriage, active LDS and using his story to help others.
Mike started a podcast call “Come Towards Delight” (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/come-towards-delight/id1514528066). Please check out his podcast. If you’d like to reach Mike, please e-mail him at cometowardsdelight@gmail.com.
Mike concludes this episode with an apology to LGBTQ people. His apology (starts at 1 hour 24 minutes) is deeply moving and I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast and his heartfelt apology.
If you want to know you are still worthy of God’s love or want others to understating this, please listen to Mike’s story. It is deeply moving and compelling. One of the most powerful stories I’ve ever heard.
You are one of my heroes Mike. Thanks for being on the podcast. You bring hope and healing to others.
My friend Lynsie calls in from BYU-Idaho (Lynsie is studying vocal performance at BYU-Idaho and hopes to be in the Tabernacle Choir someday) to share her journey. Lynsie has great insights on her sexual orientation, gender identity and hopes for the future. Lynise, who is also autistic and has a service dog, share insights of her love for our Church.
Here is a link to Lynsie’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO8UE1J9dtxFCtdUxQ_7RHA
Thanks for being on the podcast Lynsie. You are brave, courageous and wonderful. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friend David Morgan, PhD from BYU, shares helping people understand and cope with mental health issues through the lens of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. David has written four books, written dozens of articles for LDS Living and part of virtual fireside with Onward Productions.
If you want better tools to manage/solve your own mental health issues or to better help others, please listen to this podcast. David brings his academic experience, 20 years of private practice, and his understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to give us better tools/understanding.
You can learn more about David (books, articles) at https://ldspsychologist.com/. You can also follow David on Facebook at facebook.com/davidtmorganphd and Instagram @ldspsychologist
Thank you for being on the podcast David and your life mission to bring hope and healing.
My friend Emily Tomkinson joins us from the Seattle area to share her story. Emily grew up active LDS in Provo, served a mission, and was active until about age 30. Since that time, Emily has stepped away from the Church and is now married to her wife Jess and is the stepmom of boy/girl twins. Emily and Jess hold Family Night every Monday.
Emily bravely shares her journey surviving a suicide attempt and coming to terms with her sexual orientation. Emily is in a great place emotionally and also close with her LDS family.
This is a great podcast for finding common ground in our differences, keeping the family circle together, honoring personal agency and seeing good in others. Thank you for being on the podcast Emily. You are a wonderful and needed member of the human family.
My friend Jenny Richards (married mother of 4, classically trained pianist and composer with an undergraduate and master’s degree from Juilliard in New York) joins us to share and honor the life of her dear younger sister Emilee who died in January 2019. Emilee identified as a nonbinary lesbian. Emilee held a degree in psychology from Westminster and a master’s in neuropsychology from the University of Oregon and is a beautiful person. Jenny shares insights into Emiliee’s journey to help us better meet the needs of our LGBTQ friends. Jenny also brings to life Emiliee’s gifts, contributions and work to help us improve as a society.
Jenny is passionate about both our Church and doing better to meet the needs of LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. I encourage everyone to listen to her story to hear her ‘tender heart insights’ on how we can do better.
At the end of the podcast is a primary song that Jenny wrote to honor Emilee. The sheet music to the song can be download free at https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9rpmymbwzp0kqm/He%20Knows%20Me%20Jenny%20Richards%20Podcast.pdf?dl=0. You can also learn more about Jenny at www.jennyrichardsmusic.com and her YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTVo_m6JthrqG_V8FpsfZCQ and connect with Jenny on Instagram at @jennylovesnate
Thanks for being on the podcast Jenny and all you are doing to help our LGBTQ friends feel needed, valued and included.
My friend Andy Proctor, author of “Live Your Mission” for RM’s (amazon.com//dp/B018HLL5VQ), shares his own faith crisis/transition which ended with him staying a committed member of the Church. Because of Andy’s life experiences including his wife’s experience with mental illness, his education, and his professional work in positive psychology, he is uniquely qualified to help others who feel they “are alone and don’t know what to do.” Andy believes in building heaven starting now and helps others experience the “good life regardless of uncertainty” using research-based tools and your spiritual heritage to help you build a good life.
You can find Andy and his work at morehappylife.co and on IG at https://www.instagram.com/morehappylife/ and on FB at https://www.facebook.com/MoreHappyLifeCo. If you are going through hard times or want to help others, please listen to Andy’s podcast, "More Happy Life" and connect with his work. Andy brings hope, healing and peace. Thanks for being on the podcast Andy. You are a great man and friend.
My friend Meggan Chappell joins us to share her story. Meggan, in her early 30’s, shares her story of coming to terms with her sexual orientation around age 30 which led to dark thoughts of suicide. Meggan worked through those dark times and felt her path forward is a same-sex relationship. Meggan and her girlfriend Janise have been together for three years. Meggan, who was an active Latter-day Saint and is respectful to the Church, shares staying close to her Heavenly Parents and the Savior.
Thanks for being on the podcast Meggan. We are the same human family. You have a great life ahead of you. Thanks for doing your best to navigate a complicated road.
My friend Leland Wilson shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Leland left the Church (and Southern Utah) around 1983 (in his late teens). Leland lived a successful life as a floral designer and had a same-sex partner for 15+ years. Leland returned to Southern Utah in 2017 and ultimately returned to full activity in the Church.
Thank you my friend Leland for being on podcast. Glad you are alive. Thank you for sharing your journey. Your story will help others. You are a good man
My friend Jack Hadley (Entrepreneur, Adjunct Professor at BYU) shares his journey with his gay son Parker. Jack and Betina are the parents of five children and eight grandchildren. Parker, age 27 and a RM from Nova Scotia, was married in July of 2020 to his husband Alex with Jack officiating. Jack talks about how he is happy for Parker and is supportive of his decision.
Jack wrote the following essay which I encourage our listeners to read. It reflect the honest feelings and good heart of a committed Latter-day Saint doing his best maintain a strong family. You can read the essay here: https://www.jackhadley.com/faith-hope-charity-and-my-sons-marriage/
Thanks for being on the podcast Jack and helping us better understand who we can support family members in same-sex marriages, our church and how to keep the family circle strong and together.
My friend Alexander Baxter, RM, BYU Graduate and Grad Student at UC Davis, joins us to share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. I became aware of Alexander via his Twitter profile (@pionqueer47) with the words “Gay and Elder Quorum President – I guess its possible”. Alexander’s Bishop and Stake President knew he was gay before extending the call to serve as the Elders Quorum President.
Alexander shares his journey, including how he realized he way probably gay during his mission (Tacoma, Washington) and how he came to accept this part of himself at BYU. Alexander has a unique family situation (which he talks about on the podcast) and reports supportive parents.
I encourage everyone to listen to Alexander’s story on the podcast and his blog at alexanderbaxterblog.blogspot.com. Thanks for being on the podcast Alexander. You are a great man with a wonderful future
My friend Pam Lyman, active LDS and married mother of 4 boys, talks about raising a family with a son with Angelman Syndrome (https://www.angelman.org/) Pam and Matt's son Conrad who is 18 was diagnosed at 15 months with this family changing illness. Pam, who has been on this road for 16+ years, has wonderful insights for other families raising a child with a life-changing illness and what we can do better to support and sustain families walking this road.
Thank you for being on the podcast Pam. You and your family are awesome and I deeply admire and respect you all. Your story will help so many.
Note: Angelman Syndrome was discovered in 1965, not in 1985 as is mentioned in the podcast.
My friend Kurt Francom joins us to talk about Leader Saints’ upcoming virtual summit for local LDS leaders be better prepared to minister to LGBT Latter-day Saints. The summit starts on September with the over 20 pre-recorded seminars released (about two per day). Some of the presenters are Spencer Thompson, Travis Steward, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Ty Mansfield, Jeff Case, Becky Borden, Blake Fisher, Ben Schilaty, Chelsea Chipman, and Becky and Scott Mackintosh.
I encourage everyone to sign up for the summit. For free registration and for more details, please see https://leadingsaints.org/lgbt
Thank you Kurt for all your needed work at Leaders Saints and on the Board at NorthStar.
My friend Miles Selman, age 23 who served a mission in Portugal, shares his journey with long-term gender dysphoria. That dysphoria (or incongruence) led to a failed suicide attempt about a year after his mission and led to needing to transition to deal with/manage the gender dysphoria. In December 2019, Miles identified as a transgender man and took on he/him pronouns.
Miles has both a deep testimony of our restored Church and a conformation from his Heavenly Parents that he is male. He doesn’t want to live without either of those truths and is moving forward the best way he knows how as a transgender Latter-day Saint.
Miles also identifies as a homoromantic asexual and explains that for our listeners.
Thanks for being on the podcast Miles. You are strong and courageous. Thanks for your service in Portugal and your future contributions help others to Christ through our restored Church. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friend Jeff Derricott joins us to share his story. Jeff, who came out to his parents before his mission, shares trying everything to fall in love and marry a woman. In late 2018, Jeff’s world came crashing down as he realized that path was not within his control. Facing feelings of lost hope and some thoughts of suicide, Jeff shares his story to find hope and a path forward.
For Jeff, that path of hope and healing includes a deep relationship with his Heavenly Parents, relying on the Atonement, a network of family and friends, and working towards a monogamous same-sex marriage.
I encourage everyone to listen to Jeff’s story to develop better empathy for our LGBTQ members. He is a great man doing his best to walk a complicated road. Jeff reports his family, friends and Church leaders are excellent. Jeff (and our LBTQ members) deserve our love and support.
My friend Julie Lee, host of the I See You podcast, joins us to talk about her new book I See You: How Compassion and Connection Save Lives. Julie is married with two kids and active LDS. She shares insights about black and white thinking, how to "see" others with compassion and connection, and finding healing through Jesus, therapy and medication. Her mission is to bring us together as a human family.
I encourage everyone to read her book published by our friends at Cedar Fort. Please go to julieleespeaks.com to order her book and listen to her podcast series.
Thank you Julie for being on the podcast. Your healing voice is so needed.
Lou Jarvis, my long-time friend from our missions in England, joins us to talk about his business career. Lou, a business owner in Arizona, experienced financial success until 2008. Lou then bravely shares his story of making several major financial errors that led to Lou losing just about everything and total despair in an empty condo in Irvine, California in 2010.
Lou talks about the cycle of looking back, ruminating, and wishing he could re-do several decisions and how he still gets triggered about these decisions even though he is very blessed.
If you are living in a cycle of regret for decisions you’ve made that really can’t get undone, please listen to Lou’s podcast. He is honest and vulnerable and has insights to help all us of look forward.
Thanks for being on the podcast, Lou. You are a great man, friend and someone I deeply admire and respect.
My friend Chris D’Arcy, age 42, joins me from England to share his story. Chris, who has known he is gay from age 10-11, talks about his decision to join the Church in October of 2016 and the wonderful missionaries (Elders Cade Cloward and Spencer Dennis) who research and the shared with him the Church’s teachings on being gay. Those honest and thoughtful missionaries helped Chris gain a firm testimony of our restored Church.
Chris was active in the Church for about for about three years. During that time Chris received his endowments (and did 147 baptisms in one day) and served faithfully in many callings. However, Chris had some painful experiences in his local ward family that resulted in him setting away from the Church. Hearing these experiences can help us to not make the same mistakes and ensure that all members feel welcome and needed in our congregations.
Chris, who has a good relationship with his Stake President, still believes in the Church and is open to the possibility that he will return to the Church down the road.
Thank you for being on the podcast Chris. You are a good man. I do hope one day you are able to return to our Church. We need you!
My friend Chad Ford, active LDS, joins us to talk about his new book “Dangerous Love: Transforming Fear and Conflict at Home, at Work and the World" (see https://dangerouslovebook.com/). Chad, an expert in conflict resolution, talks in his book and the podcast about Christ-based principals to reduce the divisiveness and conflict in our families and communities through love. Chad’s gives us insights and tools to bring better unity and understanding.
Chad is the Director of the McKay Center at BYU-Hawaii and is a sports journalist with ESPN.
Thank you for being on the podcast Chad and your much needed work to bring us together as the Body of Christ and help heal families and our communities. I encourage everyone to check out this podcast and Chad’s book. You can follow Chad on Twitter at https://twitter.com/chadmichaelford and https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider; Facebook at @chadmichaelford; and Instagram @dangerouslovebook
My friend Devin Bourne shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Devin, age 32 and an RM who served in San Jose CA, shares finding his path which includes ruling out a life of celibacy, marrying a woman, suicide and leaving the Church. Devin has both a deep testimony of our restored Church and that being gay is part of his divine essence---and it not willing to give up either.
Devin is not inviting others to follow his path, but is asking for others to respect/support his decision as we walks a road only our LGBTQ members fully understand. Devin reports supportive Bishops that have created space for Devin to feel welcome and needed in his ward family.
Thank you for being on the podcast Devin. You are a great man with a wonderful future serving others in our Church and community as an Emergency Room doctor.
My friend Charlie Bird, former BYU Cosmo, joins us to talk about his new book published by Deseret Book called “Without the Mask” which can be ordered at: https://deseretbook.com/p/without-the-mask-coming-out-and-coming-into-gods-light-ppr?variant_id=186572-paperback. I encourage everyone to read and share his book. His book helps all of us better see/use the contributions of LGBTQ Latter-day Saints in at Church, in our families and society. Charlie is back at BYU working on a master in social work.
I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast (and if interested Charlie’s easier podcast which is episode 96). Charlie has great insights for all of us.
I also encourage everyone to listen to the great podcast that Charlie and Ben Schilaty started called “Questions from the Closet” https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/questions-from-the-closet/id1504990147.
Thank you for being on the podcast Charlie. You are a great man with a unique and beautiful life mission.
My friend Daniel Carter joins us to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Daniel served a mission to England in the late 70’s and then worked for the Church in its Music Department for 27 years until his retirement in 2016. In that assignment, Daniel blessed many lives managing the Church’s worldwide production of sheet music. Daniel, a gifted composer, contributed a song in our Hymn Book (As Now We Take the Sacrament, p.169) and two songs in the Children’s Hymn Book.
Daniel shares about his failed suicide attempt in 2005 which led to a deep period of helpful reflection, rebuilding and reconnected with the Beloved. Daniel has very helpful and hopeful insights for others who are suicidal and want to find a path to healing and hope.
Daniel shares about this path to find his husband Gale Frandsen … and their marriage in late 2016. Daniel and Gale have a combined 6 children and 16 grandchildren. Daniel, who has stepped away from the Church, honors everyone’s path and is not asking others to leave the Church. He shares insights and principles that can keep us together as families and communities even with differences --- something I believe our Heavenly Parents want us to learn to do.
You can read more about Daniel on his blog at https://www.danielcartermusic.com/blog. Thanks for being on the podcast Daniel. Much love, respect and admiration for you as you walk a unique road and thanks for your contributions to make this world a better place.
My dear friends Jill and Esther Brown join us to talk about their dear son/brother Luke who died by suicide in January 2020 at age 31. Both active LDS, they are living their worst nightmare and the void of Luke being gone.
They talk about Luke. The great man that he is and all the good he did for others. They give wonderful tribute to Luke and insights into his kindness, love for others and core goodness. They also talk about their brutal and difficult road and how things will never be the same.
The also talk directly to the “people like Luke” out there who are silently suffering and not opening up for family and/or friends and the foundation they started called The Lucas Terrill Kitchen Foundation (see Instagram at live4yourluke)
If you have lost a family member to suicide, want to help someone on this road, or are suicidal please listen to this podcast. Jill and Esther (two brave and courageous women) will give you hope, perspective and a desire to better connect with our Savior.
Thanks for being on the podcast Jill and Esther and your courage to share your story. You two are awesome.
My friend Patrick Risk, who was on episode 172, joins us to update our listeners on his life story. As always, Patrick is honest and vulnerable with his life story with includes a sexual abuse, anorexia, a divorce and being gay. Patrick feels (and I agree) that we heal and help each other when we are vulnerable, open and honest with our stories. Because Patrick is open, hundreds have reached out to Patrick feeling safe which allows Patrick to help them.
Patrick started a Facebook Group called https://www.facebook.com/groups/BrightnessOfHope/ Which I encourage everyone to join.
Thank you for being on the podcast Patrick. You have so many insights to help everyone feel welcome, loved and accepted in our congregations. You are an incredible human being with a unique life mission to bring hope and healing to others.
My friend Tyler Lefevor joins us to share his story as a queer Latter-day Saint. Tyler, who is no longer a Church member but is supportive of those who stay in the Church, shares his journey which includes serving a mission, dating women and serving as an EQ President. Tyler, in his late 20s, ultimately felt his ‘best life path’ was to be with a man and is engaged to be married.
Tyler got a psychology degree at BYU and then his doctorate from the University of Miami. Tyler completed a year-long internship at the counseling center at BYU, a year-long post-doc at Stanford, and three years as an assistant professor at Rhodes College. Tyler also is a practicing counseling physiologist where he maintains a teletherapy practice in Utah.
Tyler has teamed with Ty Mansfield, Lee Beckstead, Ron Schow, Christopher Rosik, and Marybeth Raynes on a 10-year study of current/former LDS LGBTQ/SSA members. If you are LGBTQ/SSA, I encourage you to enroll in the study (can be anonymous) at 4optionssurvey.com
Tyler is a bridge builder. He is not trying to lead others out of the Church but to help find common ground in the intersection of LDS and LGBTQ/SSA. I encourage everyone to listen to Tyler’s podcast and how we can find more common ground and less divisiveness as we are all members of the same human family. Thanks for being on the podcast Tyler. You are a great man with a wonderful life mission.
My friend Mishelle Kehoe, in her last year at BYU, shares the trauma from her sexual assault in 2016.This trauma ultimately postponed her mission, something she had been eagerly looking forward to. Mishelle talks about her anger toward God for having something out of her control cause her to postpone her mission. Mishelle shares the road to healing from the trauma of this experience and resolving her anger through what she calls the “trifecta of the Savior, therapy and family/friends.”
Mishelle also shares her journey with her eating disorder (binge eating disorder) and how this almost postponed her mission again. However, Mishelle felt impressed to serve and was able to overcome her eating disorder during her mission in New Zealand. Mishelle helps us to understand the pain, frustration and the difficult road those with eating disorders walk and the trifecta role of the Savior, therapy and family/friends to overcome her eating disorder.
Thank you Mishelle for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story which will help so many to find hope and healing through the insights you provide. You are a strong, brave and courageous human being with a unique life mission to help others. Thanks for being on the podcast!
My friend Mallory Tingey (married mother of three, active LDS, in her early 30s) joins us to talk about being a victim of child sex abuse from three step-brothers. Mallory, age 12 at the time, had no tools or framework to process the abuse and felt it was her fault.
Mallory talks about her 20 year road to healing (which is not fully complete) as she had unprocessed trauma for many years. She started an Instagram account @worthmorethanshame to share her story.
If you are a victim/survivor of sexual abuse or want better tools to help others heal, please listen to the insights Mallory shares. I learned so much listening to her story. She is walking a brutal road and often our innocent comments and church culture adds to the burdens of sexual abuse victims. The education that Mallory provides helps us to better.
You are one of my new heroes Mallory. Thanks for being one the podcast. Thanks for having the courage to share your story and the many insights you offer to help others.
My friends Krista Mortensen (mother of 6) and Kyra Dunshee (mother of 10), both active LDS with decades of Church service, talk about how to keep the family circle together and strong when a child leaves the Church.
I become aware of Krista from her July 2020 Ensign Article called “You Love, He Saves” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/07/you-love-he-saves. Krista shares more of the story behind this excellent article and her efforts to be honest about their family situation instead of putting up the ‘perfect family’ image.
Kyra also has adult children who have left the Church and shares valuable insights into the role of an LDS parent in this situation and the need to make our wards and families safer for having real and honest conversations. Kyra has found my brother David Ostler’s book called Bridges: Ministering To Those Who Question extremely helpful and has placed dozens of copies (available at Deseret Book and Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Bridges-Ministering-Those-Who-Question/dp/158958726X).
If you are active LDS and have children who have left the Church or want to be better prepared for this possibility, please listen to these insightful women. They share principals and thoughts into the Atonement of Jesus Christ that bring hope, peace, more understanding. The help us replace fear and heartache with love and peace.
Thank you Krista and Kyra for being on the podcast. You two are two of my new heroes. Your message is so needed. Your Ensign article and this podcast will help thousands.
My friends Jeff and Camille McConnell share the tragic story of their son Wesley dying in a choking accident on Memorial Day in 2018. Jeff and Camille, active LDS and parents of 5 children ages 1-11, share how their worst nightmare because reality. Now 2 years from that horrible day, Jeff and Camille share their insights to overcome anger, grief, pain, and feelings of what they might have done differently to find hope, peace and healing.
If you have lost of loved one or want to help others walking this road, please listen to Jeff and Camille’s insights. I was deeply moved by the things they shared and insights into the Atonement of Jesus Christ to find hope and healing. I was also deeply moved by their thoughts to keep Wesley integrated into their families lives.
Please check out Camille’s blog at sweetwesleyswarriors.com for more of her story.
Thanks for being on the podcast Jeff and Camille. You are bringing hope and healing to so many!
My friends, Evan and Cheryl Smith, join us to share their journey supporting their gay son, Weston. Evan and Cheryl, who live near Plymouth, Massachusetts and have given decades of service to the Church, share their story, which includes a new navigable e-book that Evan wrote available at gayldscrossroads.org.
Their story includes their journey to love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their support for Weston who feels his path is to marry a man---a decision that came during his LDS mission. Included in the podcast is a difficult experience they had with a General Authority, which gives us all insights into pitfalls to avoid when ministering to LDS parents with LGBTQ children.
The Smith family is one of the finest families I know. I encourage everyone to listen to their podcast and read their book at gayldscrossroads.org. It will help you better support families with LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, give hope for the future, and help keep the family circle together.
My friend Jenie Hunter joins us to share their family experience over the last 8 years with their wonderful gay son Nicholas. The podcast is an expanded discussion of this outstanding blog post by Jenie in June 2020: https://www-jeniehuntercoaching-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.jeniehuntercoaching.com/amp/unconditional-love
If you are a parent or someone who wants to know better how to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints, please listen to Jenie’s podcast and read her blog post. She has remarkable insights on how to navigate this ‘long curvy road’. If you are LDS and LGBTQ, this podcast may give you hope and insights to better see/navigate your future.
Jenie is a certified life coach and can help you ‘stop feeling pain about your child’s choices’. Please see her web site at https://www.jeniehuntercoaching.com/. Or e-mail her at jeniehuntercoaching@gmail.com
Thank you for being on the podcast Jenie. You and your husband John are doing such a great job supporting Nicholas and using these life lessons to help and support others. Thank you Nicholas for the good man you are and your contributions to society.
My lifelong friend Mark Matheson joins us to share life lessons learned and insights from the Book of Mormon. Mark, who has been divorced and also lost a wife/son in a car accident, knows much about adversity and has great insights into how to overcome life’s challenges. Mark, now in his early 60’s, life has turned out far different than he anticipated. Yet Mark’s commitment to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and serving others has allowed him to work through and overcome these adversities, have joy in his life, and increased tools to help others.
Mark posts frequently about the Book of Mormon on Facebook at facebook.com/ScriptureAnalyst-218544918795870/ and facebook.com/ConferenceAnalyst-293462621248276/ and Instagram at instagram.com/scriptureanalyst/ and instagram.com/conferenceanalyst/ Please follow these pages of Mark’s helpful insights.
You can see the video of a talk he gave at BYU Hawaii entitled: "Make God your Business Partner." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZED4UgyRXD4
Thank you Mark for being on the podcast. You are a great man and friend and continue to help so many.
My friend Tré Smith joins us to share his story as a Black Latter-day Saint. Tré talks about his decision to become fully active in the Church and the role of his wonderful YSA Bishop (now Stake President Kevin Gifford). Tré talks about learning to forgive the drunk driver that killed his younger brother and broke the heart of his good father. Tré talks about his wonderful wife Rachel and her love and support since their high school days.
Tré talks about his support of Black Lives Matter and shares helpful insights into life as a black man. Tré, who married a white woman, talks about the goodness and strength of their marriage and the excellent support and love from both families as they were married and started their lives together. Yea, they are an interracial couple, but they just see themselves as two of God’s equal children who fell in love with each other and are building their lives and family together.
Tré also talks about the values his is teaching his players at Cyprus High and his lifelong dream to be the head basketball coach at Cyprus High.
Thank you for being on the podcast my friend Tré. Much love and respect for you. The great man that you are and the exemplary life you are living and your contributions back to society.
My friend Matt Smith joins me to share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. I became aware of Matt with his coming out post titled ‘If you are gay, don’t throw it all way” that talked about his journey and overcoming suicide thoughts. The post is filled with hundreds of kind comments. https://www.facebook.com/matthew.smith.1293/posts/2992903347429656
Matt shares his path to be the very best gay Latter-day Saint he can be. For Matt, that includes his desire marry a man and participate in the Church as much as he can. Matt has helpful insights into the unique and difficult road LGBTQ Latter-day Saints walk, their near impossible choices and what we can do to provide hope and healing.
I encourage everyone to listen to Matt’s story. Each story is unique, valid and worthy of love and support. Thanks for being on the podcast Matt. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friend Diahan joins us to talk about her work to understand the DNA industry and interpret DNA results. Diahan, a noted author and national speaker, is a leading expert in her field addresses key questions that result from DNA results such as new family relationships. Diahan also talks about DNA and LGBTQ families.
Please check out Diahan’s company web site at https://www.yourdnaguide.com or FB page at https://www.facebook.com/YourDNAGuide
You can reach Diahan at guide@yourDNAguide.com
Thanks for being on the podcast Diahan and all your great work!
My friend Dr. Taylor Petrey, who as a doctorate in New Testament and early Christianity from Harvard Divinity School and is a tenured professor at Kalamazoo College in Michigan, joins me to talk about his new book. Taylor’s book talks about the Church’s history with marriage (interracial marriages, role of woman, etc) and how that has evolved over the decades as part of the on-going restoration. Taylor’s academic work is helpful to me as a committed Latter-day Saint to understand our history and see patterns of continuing revelation that give me hope that we will continue to find more ways to better meet the needs of LGBTQ Latter-day Saints who walk a difficult road.
I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast and read Taylor’s book (https://uncpress.org/book/9781469656229/tabernacles-of-clay/). Thank you Taylor for being on the podcast and all your great work to help us come together better as the Body of Christ.
My friend Bryan Baggaley, married father of 8, shares about his recently released book on the Brother of Jared. Bryan, an engineer by trade, shares his decision to write the book and then key insights from the ministry of the Brother of Jared and how those apply to our lives.
I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast and buy Brother Baggaley’s book (https://www.amazon.com/Building-Faith-Like-Brother-Jared/dp/1462137563 or https://www.cedarfort.com/collections/book-of-mormon/products/building-faith-like-the-brother-of-jared). It will give you insights for your life and to help others.
Thanks for being on the podcast Bryan and your great efforts to help us understand the mission and live of the Brother of Jared.
My friend Rebekah Hatch (BYU Psychology student, RM, married) joins us to talk about her initiative called the Abnormal Family Project, which uses art to bring a voice to families that don’t fit the traditional family stereotype that is strongly endorsed in the LDS culture. These families can include those who experience racial diversity, adoption, divorce, death, LGBTQ, immigration, poverty, etc. Rebekah has experienced the stigmatization directed towards nontraditional families as her parents divorced when she was seven years old.
Rebekah’s project can be found here https://www.facebook.com/theabnormfamproject/. The central idea of this project is to utilize art as a nonthreatening form of communication to illustrate and better understand these family experiences by both reducing stigma and increasing empathy towards these families. These pieces will be edited together into a published book of art that shares stories of all marginalized family types. Submissions are due by December 31, 2020, and can be done through this link: https://forms.gle/kHVKd1FwReEqKq5d6.
Thank you Rebekah for your needed work to help all LDS families feel welcome in our congregations and society. Honored to have you on the podcast. You are doing needed work!
My friend Steve and Jamie Smith (active LDS and parents of 5 kids), share their journey with Steve’s drug addiction. Steve talks about why he is an addict, how he got on this road, how he finally found recovery and how he is moving forward. Jamie shares powerful insights about her road to recovery as the wife of an addict.
Steve and Jamie are open with their story in their Ward, families and other circles. They both share insights into the role of shame to keep us from talking the necessary steps to be honest, vulnerable which are key steps to recovery.
If you are an addict or working to help someone solve an addiction, please listen to this podcast. If you want to improve your marriage, have a better relationship with the Savior, or feel more peace in your life, please listen to this podcast. It was transforming for me and I think it will be for you.
You can follow Jamie on IG at @fromtheheartofrecovery
Thank you Steve and Jamie. You are two of my new heroes. Thank you for continuing to share your story!
My friend Tom Muench, married father of three, bravely shares his nearly two decade journey with pornography and his journey with same-sex attraction. Tom reached out to me with the impression that more people need to hear stories of those still trying to solve this challenge to give them hope and perspective. Here is part of his e-mail:
“My object for reaching out is not to say that recovery isn't possible but to share in the pain of those who are still struggling despite their efforts. I've listened to your podcast hoping to hear from someone that is still struggling. At times in my pain I've felt frustrated that the only people we seem to hear from are those who have had a story to tell of healing. It's amazing to hear of other's stories of healing and I need that but I also need to hear from someone who is willing to go into the pain I'm feeling right now. Then it hit me. Maybe I will have to be that person. When prompted to reach out I kept thinking that maybe one day when I'm "clean" again or "sober" for so long then I will contact Richard, THEN I will have a story to tell. I have a story to share now.”
Tom’s pornography has cost him jobs, temple attendance and nearly his marriage. He has been close to suicide. Yet, Tom bravely moved forward trying his best to solve his addiction – which is an ongoing battle. Tom talks about feeling God’s love, hope and influence now. How support groups, a wonderful wife and others are helping him.
If you are in the ‘middle of the battle’ and need to hear hope from someone else on the same road, please listen to Tom’s podcast. He has a very tender and good heart, a love of God, a deep commitment to his marriage and the Church and a desire to help others. Since he knows this road, he has great insights to help others.
You are a great man Tom. Honored to meet you. You are going to put this behind you. And you are helping a lot of others along the way.
My friend Brooke Brady joins me to share her multi-year journey with brutal emotional health challenges. These challenges started during her mission in Bolivia and have continued during the three years since her successful mission. Brooke shares, because of her emotional health, feeling God’s love and the Spirit---but also a few powerful experience to help her know God is there, is aware of her difficult road, and loves her.
Brooke shares getting genetic testing in Nov 2019 and how the results have helped get her the right medication to help her feel better and have more hope. Brooke also shares about her wonderful YSA Bishop, Brian Stauffer, and how a short tithing settlement interview turned into a transforming ministering visit. I’m glad for the service of men like Bishop Stauffer.
Thanks for being on the podcast Brooke. Your story will help thousands. You are awesome. I encourage everyone looking for more hope to listen and share Brooke’s podcast.
My friend Paul Reeve (active LDS, Professor of Mormon Studies at the University of Utah, expert on Race and Latter-day Saint History) shares his insights into racism within LDS history, stories of Black Latter-day Saints, and what we can do to eliminate racism in our own lives and better support Black Latter-day Saints.
Paul’s insights were recently covered by the Daily Universe at BYU: https://universe.byu.edu/2020/06/03/lisis-384-final/. Paul mentions the Church’s Race and the Priesthood Essay which is approved by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve and can be found here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood
He is Project Manager and General Editor of a digital database, Century of Black Mormons, designed to name and identify all known Black Mormons baptized into the faith between 1830 and 1930. The database is now live at CenturyofBlackMormons.org.
I encourage all Latter-day Saints who want to better help and support Black Latter-day Saints to read Paul’s book (https://www.amazon.com/Religion-Different-Color-Struggle-Whiteness/dp/019067413X/) and listen to this podcast.
Thank you Paul for your discipleship to help us better honor our doctrine of “All Alike Unto God” and help us see, support and embrace Black Latter-day Saints.
My friend James McGraw (married father of two, RM) shares his journey to become an LGBTQ ally. It started at UVU as a psychology student where he got to know many LGBTQ students and included serving with the Special Assistant to the President for Inclusion on a number of diversity related projects. Later James younger brother came out as gay and James says “I love my brother, It’s just that simple.”
James is a Clinical Psychology Doctoral Student at Bowling Green in Ohio and would like to eventually return to Utah as Professor of Psychology. As part of his research, he has started a project for current/former LGBTQ individuals examining the experiences of faith, family, and mental health. To participate please go to: https://bgsu.az1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_ex5QujR3ilSSM8B?fbclid=IwAR1Pp2OrkHoSuGSMTbXEaQ2EUTve-rk48aOZ5b2RVnXRWlSwZyq_SlQaee8
James also recently spoke in his Stake about how to better meet the needs of LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and shares those thoughts on the podcast.
Thank you James for being on the podcast and your efforts to embrace, understand, support and amplify LGBTQ voices. You are a great man with a unique and needed life ministry. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast and if you are LGBTQ enroll in James’ study.
My friend Drew Young (active LDS, age 24, married) shares his story as an early release missionary in his new book called “The Meaning of Your Mission: Lessons and Principals to Know You Are Enough.”
Drew talks about the anxiety and depression that led to ending his mission after 62 days and the dark 18 months that followed. Drew eventually found hope and healing and is releasing a book to share his story.
Drew’s book, with a forward from Hank Smith and published by Cedar Fort, is now available for preorder from drewbyoung.com
If emotional health challenges are part of your journey or you want to help someone walking this road, please listen to this podcast and read Drew’s book. I learned so much listening to Drew’s insights and perspectives—some that brought tears to my eyes as I realize Drew’s unique life mission to help others.
My friend Eric shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Eric, who is active in the Church and in college working towards a career in social work, shares his nearly three decade journey on this road. In addition to great insights into life as a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, Eric shares how he worked to forgive his abusive father (who has died) and their reconciliation from each side of the veil.
Thank you for being on the podcast Eric. You have a kind and gentle heart and insights into how to use the Atonement of Jesus Christ to forgive others and heal so we can move forward. You are a great man and have a wonderful life ahead of you. This world is a better place with you here!
My friend Tim Ringgold shares his life mission and profession to solve addictions, bring hope and healing through music.
Tim, who is not a member of the LDS Church, also shares his thoughts on supporting his bisexual daughter and deeply spiritual experiences about his daughter who passed away.
If you have an addiction or want to help someone solve an addiction, please listen to this podcast. Tim has new insights and tools that I wish I knew before my YSA assignment. You can learn more about Tim at www.timringgold.com and receive a free gift at this web site.
Kayla, Emily and Charlotte are the co-founders of Seeking Heavenly Mother (https://seekingheavenlymother.com/). These three women, all LDS Returned Missionaries who are attending or have graduated from BYU, have great insights about our Heavenly Mother. They answer these questions:
What is the Church’s position on Heavenly Mother? Why does Heavenly Mother matter? Why did they start the Seeking Heavenly Mother project? What is the positive impact of more discussion about Heavenly Mother? What can we do as individuals?
This was a transformative podcast for me. I learned so much with several light bulb experiences. I encourage all our listeners to listen to and share this podcast. It will help you have a better relationship with our Heavenly Parents, find more hope and healing, and help others come unto Christ.
Thank you Kayla, Emily and Charlotte for you beautiful and unique life mission. You are three of my new heroes.
My friend Dalton Bradford joins us to share his love and support for our LGBTQ friends. Dalton, who is graduating in Middle East Studies and Arabic, is serious about LGBTQ issues as he plans to live in the Middle East working to improve rights for LGBTQ people living in that region. Dalton, who has lived in 8 different countries, also shares how he is navigating his LDS faith and also shares about his emotional health.
Dalton is joined by his girlfriend Shelby Huey, RM and MTC Teacher. Shelby, who wasn’t planning on being on the podcast, offers wonderful insights during podcast on our LGBTQ friends, faith and managing emotional health issues.
If you want to have hope for the future, gain new insights into our LGBTQ friends, navigate LDS faith issues or better understand mental health, please listen to these two graduating BYU students. Thanks to both of you for being on the podcast. You are two of my new heroes. You stories, goodness, and service have and will help so many.
My friend Cassidy Jensen shares her brutally painful journey following being raped while a student at BYU Law School in 2019. Cassidy, who is now married and practicing Family Law in California, shares shattered dreams, shame, trauma, losing trust in God and the road to healing. Cassidy shares some of her experience at her blog: https://weallhavelight.com/ including her powerful victim impact statement at https://weallhavelight.com/blog-1/alettertomyrapist
If you need to heal from trauma/crushed dreams or want to help someone heal, please listen to Cassidy’s story. Cassidy is strong, brave, powerful and full of insights to help others.
Thank you for the courage to be on the podcast Cassidy. You are one of our heroes.
My friend Jeffrey Alldredge joins us to share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint, Jeffrey, who grew up in Saint George Utah, came out to his parents at age 12. He served an mission and returned home and married his long-time girlfriend Cassandra. It is a beautiful love story. Jeffrey has been and continues to be completely open to Cassie about everything.
Jeffrey has wonderful insights into life as a gay Latter-day Saint, the role of helpful family and Church leaders. He has great insights dealing with shame, painful comments, difficult situations, dark days, and the role of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and give hope.
Thanks for having the courage to share your story on the podcast my friend Jeffrey. Our world and Church are better off with you here. Thanks for your goodness and your insights that will help others. You and Cassie (and your two sons) are a beautiful family.
My friend Davis Amis joins us to share his testimony and mission experiences from his service in Benin, West Africa. Davis also shares his decision to wait a year after High School graduation to serve a mission and why that was the right decision for him.
Davis, who attends Westminster College where he is a member of the golf team, has great insights into the good people in Benin and Togo and the beautiful doctrine in our Restored Church. Thank you Davis for being on the podcast, your goodness, testimony and faithful service.
My friend Emma Mecham bravely shares her 5 year journey with depression. It all started with a voice at the conclusion of a church assignment that said ‘You know Emma, maybe you're not as good as you thought you were.” That voice, which is not how Heavenly Father feels about Emma, led to self-harm and deep depression.
Emma takes about how she fought and is overcoming depression with the help of family, therapists, church leaders and friends. She also talks about how the Atonement of Jesus Christ provides her hope and healing. Thanks for being on the podcast Emma. You are a hero to all of us for your courageous work to manage and solve depression. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friend Cody Swensen shares his remarkable journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Cody, who works in HR for a Utah County company, recently came out publicly on Facebook and IG receiving hundreds of loving and supportive comments.
Cody talks about his two decade journey to come to terms with his sexual orientation. Many people have helped Cody along the way including a wonderful BYU therapists, family and friends. Cody talks about overcoming depression, self-loathing, shame, his excellent relationship with Heavenly Father, and why he stays a committed member of the Church.
If you are LDS and LGBTQ and are looking for hope and healing, please listen to this podcast. If you want to better understand the journey of a LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, please listen to Cody’s story. Cody is one of my new heroes. This world is a better place with people like Cody in it. Thanks for being on the podcast Cody—I learned so much from you
My friend Brandon Kellogg (age 26, RM, married) joins us to talk about his parent’s divorce during his teenage years. Brandon talks about the pain of the divorce, anger, frustration and lost dreams. Brandon then talks about forgiveness, recovery and the wonderful relationship he has with both parents.
If you are looking to overcome a grudge or broken relationship, Brandon’s podcast may be helpful.
Thank you for being on the podcast Brandon. You are a great man and friend
My friend Kevin Kloosterman joins us to share his story as an LGBTQ Ally for the past 9 years. Kevin, who is a married father of three, former Bishop, and current mental health therapist, has great insights on how to be an effective ally and active Latter-day Saint. Kevin also has wonderful insights and helpful thoughts for our LGBTQ members as they walk a difficult road.
Thank for being on the podcast my friend. You are a wonderful mentor to me, example of a Christlike disciple, and bring hope and healing to many.
My friend Colby, age 29 and a soon-to-be Resident Physician in Neurology, shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Colby discusses coming to terms with his sexual orientation and his OCD and to separate these two aspects of his life. Colby, who served a mission in Calgary Canada, talks about his efforts to stay engaged in the Church, close with God, date men and his excellent family support. Colby attends his YSA Ward where he came out (and received great support) during a recent testimony on fast Sunday.
Thank you for being on the podcast Colby. You are doing a great job navigating a complex road as a gay Latter-day Saint. Thanks for the courage to share your story and all the good you are doing in society. You have a great life ahead of you and will continue to help so many.
My friend Linnette, in the 50’s and mother of a teenage son, shares her journey. Linnette served a mission, then spent about 20 years outside of the church, including 8 years in same-sex committed relationship. Linnette shares her journey to return to the church—and the people who helped her including a wonderful sister and priesthood leaders. Linnette shares her love of the Temple, our Savior and serving others. You can read more of Linnette’s remarkable journey here bluedolphinlight.com. Thank you for being on the podcast Linnette. You are awesome. Thanks for the courage to share your remarkable story.
My nephew and friend Richie Ostler joins me to talk about dealing with life challenges and changing expectations.
One area of changing expectations is his mission where he was assigned to Quito, Ecuador but then served in Minneapolis, Minnesota (for 6 months) before eventually serving in Quito Ecuador. Because of COVID-19, Richie returned home after about a year in Ecuador. Richie had many experiences helping people come to Christ through our restored Church. Richie’s faithful mission was much different than his original expectations—but he served diligently and has great insights for others with changed mission expectations.
Another area of life challenges is his mother Ann’s death 6 years ago when Richie was 13 year old. Richie talks about Ann’s example and continue role for good in his life. Richie also shares being a missionary and receiving the devastating news in Feb 2020 that his five-year-old nephew Sammy Glauser died in an tragic accident. Richie has great insights in the role of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal from difficult earthly experiences.
Thanks for being on the podcast Richie. You are wise beyond your years and your insights will help many.
My friend Paul Hoybjerg, active LDS/BYU Law School graduate, joins us to talk about protecting our children from sexaul abuse. Paul is an attorney in California and advocates for victims of abuse and negligence. From his legal work and life experiences, he has wonderful insights for parents and those who have experienced abuse.
Paul talks about how abusers will groom and isolate their victims, groups that are at risk, warning signs, available resources, and how to heal from abuse.
If you are a parent, this podcast will give you better tools and insights to protect your children and have better communication skills so children will open up if they if they are in unhealthy situations.
Thanks for being on the podcast Paul and your great work to help protect our children. This podcast will help so many. If you have any additional questions for Paul, you can email him at abuseattorney@gmail.com.
My friend Matt, in his 30’s and a financial planner, share his story as a gay Latter-day Saints. Matt, who grew up in New Jersey and served a mission in Houston Texas, shares his journey going from shame around his sexual orientation to being at peace this is who his is—and what makes his needed life mission possible. Matt doesn’t look in the mirror and see someone who is broken—but a beloved son of God.
Matt talks about choosing to live the Gospel, focusing on God and not Church culture, temple attendance, accepting other’s paths, behavior versus heart, and how being gay isn’t a trial. A frequent theme of this podcast is eliminating shame around sexual orientation.
Thanks for being on the podcast Matt. I learned so much listening to your story. You are a great man, with a pure heart and an ability to love and help others. Thanks for sharing your story—it will help so many. You can also listen to Matt’s story on this North Star video: https://www.northstarlds.org/voh-profile-matt
My friend Jared Halverson, finishing up a PHD in American Religious History from Vanderbilt University Divinity School, joins me to talk about how to help Latter-day Saints with honest questions. I became aware of Jared from these excellent LDS Living Videos: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=518222565797021 and https://www.facebook.com/LDSLiving/videos/222190582197378/
If you have questions about the Church or want better tools to help those with questions, please listen and share this podcast. Brother Halverson helps us understand that questions are positive steps in developing our faith and testimony.
Thank you for being on the podcast, Jared. I was personally deeply touched by the things you shared and your insights into our restored Church. You have a beautiful and unique ministry to help in improve our culture to normalize asking questions and help more of our wonderful members have better tools to stay in our Church.
My friend Jessica joins us to talk about her journey with Scrupulosity and Relationship OCD. While serving in the Albuquerque, New Mexico mission, Jessica worked through several difficult episodes with Scrupulosity. She has great insights to help others.
Jessica also has Relationship OCD and give us helpful insights to better understand and manage it. You can learn more about this at https://ocdla.com/
Thanks for being on the podcast Jessica. You are brave, faithful and courageous. You story and insights will help so many!
My friend Hannah Larson (active LDS, RM, Graduating from BYU in June 2020) joins us to talk about spiritual impressions to start the Humans of BYU Instagram account (@humansofbyu). This account brings voice to BYU students who walk a difficult and unique road. It is part of Hannah’s vision of helping us learn to be vulnerable and authentic so we can better love each other.
The stories on this account are awesome and I encourage everyone to follow this account. Thank you for being on the podcast Hannah. You are helping us come together as Latter-day Saints to better love and support each other.
My friend Nic Quilter joins us to share his thoughts and insights about our LGBTQ+ members. I became aware of Nic from his excellent essay which I encourage everyone to read: https://medium.com/@quiknilter/climbing-trees-and-other-things-youre-not-supposed-to-do-bd720255a49a Thanks for being on the podcast Nic. It is members like you that give me so much hope for the future of our Church and society. Keep using you awesome gifts to help and bless others. Glad and honored to count you as a friend.
My friend Cory Wolfenbarger (married father of six, former Bishop) shares his journey being an early release missionary from Russia because of his emotional health. Cory ended up finishing his mission in Seattle. Cory is joined on the podcast by his two sons.
Holden, age 21, was serving in Nicaragua when political unrest forces out all the missionaries. Holden finished in Long Beach, California.
Elder Mac Wolfenbarger just returned from Vietnam because the coronavirus pandemic. Still a set-apart missionary, Elder Wolfenbarger shares insights and gospel principals that keeps him grounded in this middle of many unknown.
Great podcast for any missionary, local leader, or family dealing with changing missionary expectations with the coronavirus pandemic. Thanks you for being on the podcast and your great insights to help others walking this road.
My friend David Smurthwaite, in his early 40’s and active LDS, joins us to share is multiple-decade journey with gender dysphoria. David helps us understand that gender dysphoria is real and shares his journey working closely with Heavenly Father, his good wife Marisa, and therapists to understand and manage it.
David is no longer living with the shame allowing him to have better relationships with everyone, better emotional health and a better relationship with Heavenly Father. David shared his story on this blog post to help others: : https://medium.com/one-truth/we-are-all-queer-disciples-of-christ-6257e07a3da9?source=friends_link&sk=acb1c7c7d60835e50058362722484083
Thank you my friend David for being on the podcast and sharing your story. You are a great man helping us all better understand Latter-day Saints with gender dysphoria. Your story will heal and give hope to many.
Episode 253: Quiana Chase Gines, Active LDS, Married, Gender Dysphoria and Bisexual by Richard Ostler
My friend Alex Versey joins us to share his story. Alex talks about his father’s Brian’s death in a car accident when he was 3 years old and his mother’s Jana remarriage and her strong testimony of the Church.
Alex, a returned missionary from Fresno California and a former EQ President, talks about being a gay Latter-day Saint. Alex has great insights into other all of us as he walks this road. Thanks for being on the podcast, Alex. You are a great man and a wonderful disciple of Christ.
My friend Megan Goates joins us to share the joys and challenges of raising three sons on the autism spectrum. Her oldest son is ‘typically developing’ and preparing for a mission. The focus of the podcast is on her second son, Jack age 15, who is non-verbal and in a group home. Megan shares the personal revelation that led to that decision and the spiritual goodness of Jack.
If you are raising a child like Jack or want to better support someone, please listen to the insights, experiences, personal revelation, and role of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, that Megan and her husband Jeff are receiving.
My friend Brittney Herman bravely shares her story surviving multiple sexual assaults. Brittney, who did nothing wrong, has great insights to help others walking this road to heal, and hope and move forward. Brittney started a nonprofit called “We Will” (wewillorg.com) to help sexual assault survivors. You can also following Brittney’s work on Instagram @we.will.organization and on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/we.will.organization/
Brittney has great insights working through trauma, being angry at Heavenly Father and connecting with Heavenly Mother, role of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, solving shame, and realizing she didn’t do anything wrong. Brittney also the importance of parents teaching their kids consent, coercion and refusal skills.
Thanks for being on the podcast Brittney. You are one of my new heroes. You bravely sharing your story is giving hope and healing to so many.
My friend Bob Burggraff joins us to share his story. Bob and his dear wife Inma are the parents of 4 children and one grandchild. Bob has experience gender dysphoria his whole life and it has been a painful and difficult road.
Bob talks about what he is doing to cope with his dysphoria and why he now considers himself detrains. Bob honored all the paths those who are transgender walk and ask that people honor his path.
I’ve learned that gender dysphoria is real. These good people are not being deceived or making this up. I’ve also learned that each story is unique and I’m so grateful for Bob’s courage to share his story.
Bob also has a podcast called “Faith and Gender” at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/faith-and-gender/id1498053947. Thanks for being on the podcast Bob. You and Inma are awesome!
My friend Dennis Schleicher joins me to update our listeners on his service, journey and work. Dennis (who joined us on Episode 108) is now a LDS literary agent, talks about his firesides, his work in his EQ Presidency and North Star. Dennis also shares answers he get to common question from other Latter-day Saints.
You can buy Dennis’ book at: https://www.amazon.com/He-Nuts-Become-Member-Church/dp/1462135714
Thanks for being on the podcast my friend Dennis. You have a beautiful and unique life mission to help many unto Christ.
My friend Kerri Scott bravely shares the story of her 2-month affair that resulted in a child. Kerri shares telling her husband Troy, going through Church discipline, how her marriage ultimately survived, and how Troy accepted this child as his own.
This is a story about pain, redemption, forgiveness, communication, friends and family, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ to forgive and heal broken hearts.
Thank you Kerri for sharing your story. It gives us all hope and better insights into the Atonement. You are Troy are two of my new heroes. Thanks for being on the podcast.
My friend Jordan shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jordan shares growing up, doing his best to stay in the Church, and helping other LGBTQ people. Jordan is on the executive committee at The Utah Hearth (https://www.facebook.com/groups/320445228673183/) and is launching (end of 2020) lgbtqut.com as a central place for Utah resources.
Thanks for being on the podcast Jordan. You are a great man, helping many, and with a wonderful future.
My friend Deborah Schone shares her story of raising her gay son Hunter. Deborah is joined by her mother (and Hunter’s grandmother) Catherine Pedersen. Hunter, who came out to Deborah in the 9th grade, and Deborah and her husband Steve have been walking this road for the last nine years. It is a beautiful story as Hunter is close with his family. Deborah and Catherine have great insights and advice for others.
Hunter, who has stepped away from the church, is a great man doing wonderful things in his life including getting a PHD in neuroscience at University College London. Check out his ted talk on Alzheimer’s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARd2cpdZpjI).
Deborah recently posted a pride flag at her home and shares her thoughts on why she did this as an active LDS parent. Great insights. You can read her IG post @gr8fulmom9
Thanks for being on the podcast, Deborah and Catherine. You are great examples of family, service and discipleship. Thanks for your insights on keeping the family together as you support your good son and grandson Hunter.
My friend Rebekah Westover (active LDS, married mother of 3) shares her journey to become a LGBTQ Ally. It started by doing a photo shoot of a same-sex couple (her cousin Marc Galbraith and Nick Burton) in 2013 at the Salt Flats. Spending a day with these two good men changed Rebekah’s heart. That shoot became the focus of an article at the Park City Magazine (see https://www.parkcitymag.com/weddings/2013/09/men-in-black-marc-galbraith-nick-burton-grooms-portraits-at-the-salt-flats).
Since that time, Rebekah has done work for Encircle and other same-sex couples. Rebekah shares her thoughts on our LGBTQ friends, their gift and contributions. She also talks about her role as an ally including wearing a rainbow bracelet to Church.
Thanks for being on the podcast Rebekah and your insights to love and support all of God’s children. Your insights helps us to better come together as the same human family.
My friends Skyler and Amanda share their story. The first part of the podcast is Skyler coming out as gay to Amanda while they were dating. That brought them closer together and they were married in the Provo City Center Temple in March 2018. They have a beautiful, authentic and wonderful marriage.
The second part of the podcast is the birth of their beautiful son Milo at 24.5 weeks. They share having Milo for 24 days until his sudden death on Aug 25, 2019. Skyler and Amanda bravely share the story of losing their beautiful son, how they are grieving and what helpful things we can do/say to those grieving. I felt Milo with us.”
Thank you for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you and your story will give hope, healing and better understanding to our listeners. The three of you are awesome.
My friends Grace Soleberg (Black Latter-day Saint) and Faith Williams (Grace’s friend and ally) talk about being black at BYU. I became aware of Grace following her tweet after painful experience at the Black Immigration Panel at BYU in early February where racist questions were submitted (https://twitter.com/SoelbergGrace/status/1225607906092974081).
This experience helped me to realize how much more work we have to do as the Body of Christ to help Black Latter-day Saints feel welcome and that racism exists today. Faith (a RM from Argentina) shares wonderful insights into the problem and what we need to do better.
Thank you Grace and Faith for being on the podcast. You two are awesome. You have a unique and beautiful life mission to help us to better.
My friend Seth Cannon joins us to bravely share his story. Seth, who grew up in Medford Oregon and has a great family, shares his journey with difficult emotional health issues which led to a suicide attempt during his junior year in high school. At the time, Seth falsely believe his suicide who end the burden he was creating for others. Seth talks about how his OCD/Scrupulosity led to a feeling of not measuring up and the need to engage in self harm to ‘even the judgement bar’.
Seth also shares his desire to service a mission, being voice for the voiceless, helping us better understand those with emotional challenges, and how BYU can be tough place if you are not a returned missionary.
Thank you Seth for your courage to share your story on the podcast. You are brave, strong and full of goodness. Your story will help so many!
My friend Noah Kelsch joins us to share his journey with OCD, Anxiety, and Scrupulosity. Noah, who is getting a degree in Marriage and Family Studies with plans to be a therapist, talks about how scrupulosity was first manifested while getting ready for his mission, then on his mission, and more recently while a student at BYU-I. Noah did not know this was scrupulosity until his therapist diagnosed him in 2019.
Please listen as Noah bravely shares his journey. His insights, perspectives, and experiences will help you if you have scrupulosity or simply want to help others.
Also, check out Noah’s podcast, "Survive and Thrive: From Courtship to Marriage," at: https://surviveandthrive.buzzsprout.com/. It can also be found on most podcast streaming platforms.
My friend Kris Irvin (who identifies as transmasculine non-binary and asexual) shares their journey as a queer Latter-day Saint. It’s beautiful story. I love the story Kris shared when speaking in Church, the Bishopric member introduced Kris using they/them pronouns.
We are all the same human family and I’m grateful for amazing people like Kris who are doing so much good in their family, church circle, for other queer Latter-day Saints, and in society. I’m a better person for knowing Kris.
Thank you for being on the podcast Kris. You are awesome. You can follow Kris on Twitter at @krisis86
My friend Jenny Hahn (active LDS) shares her unlikely journey to homeschool her children. As I listened to Jenny, I realized many of the myths and biases I held about homeschooling were wrong. I realized this is the right decision for the Hahn family and many other wonderful families. I realize I need to set aside my past assumptions to bring us together as the same human family.
Jenny shares the personal revelation she received as a mother to homeschool her kids, how her kids are thriving, how she honors and support families in the public school system and how she hopes this no longer divides families in our wards and communities.
Thank you Jenny for being on the podcast.
My friend Preston Jenkins, who is the missionary Elder Holland spoke about in his conference talk ‘Behold Thy Mother’ (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2015/10/behold-thy-mother) shares his story with our listeners. In 2010, Preston came home from his mission because of the emotional and sexual abuse that he endured at the hands of another missionary. Church-generated trauma can be one of the most difficult types of trauma to overcome because it originates from a place that should be safe and healing.
Preston shares how, over the following five years, he overcame the PTSD that resulted from his mission. He talks about his visit with Elder Holland that was key to his moving forward as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints－a ministering home-run by Elder Holland. Preston also shares how wonderful a job his parents, Cheri and Trent, siblings, and other family and friends did to help him navigate this complicated road and ultimately heal, putting his trauma behind him by coming to know Jesus Christ and His ability to heal his broken heart.
In 2015, acting on a spiritual prompting, Preston left to finish his mission, assigned to Atlanta, Georgia. Then as "Elder Jenkins," Preston watched the October General Conference in the chapel of his assigned area when Elder Holland spoke about him and his mother. Elder Holland’s talk opened the door for Elder Jenkins to share his experiences with many others, helping them to develop a relationship with Jesus Christ and learn of His Atonement so they, too, could heal.
After completing his mission in Atlanta, Preston taught at the MTC for just shy of 3 years and remains an active member of the Church. Preston also shared his story through a North Star - Voices of Hope video (https://www.northstarlds.org/voh-preston). There is also a book manuscript currently being considered by a publisher that details his journey.
If you have a wounded heart or want to help others heal their hearts, please listen to this podcast. Preston's story helped me. I think it will help you. Thank you for being on the podcast, Preston. You are a great man with a beautiful and unique life mission to give hope to and heal others.
My friend Curtis Anderson (active LDS, married father of two, former YSA Bishop) shares his journey to better understand and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. It’s a powerful story. Curtis has great perspectives on how to faithfully deal with the complex historical and current issues of our Church.
Curtis also updated our listeners on Encircle, a LGBTQ+ family and youth resource center (https://encircletogether.org/)
Thanks for being on the podcast Curtis. You and your wife Margie are awesome!
My friend Jill (married mother of 6 children and 4 grandchildren) shares about her son Hunter coming out as gay at age 17 (about 8 years ago). Jill talks about supporting Hunter, getting involved in Mama Dragons, and being an admin for a Facebook group for LDS parents with LGBTQ children (https://www.facebook.com/groups/840081769339272/).
Jill has wonderful insights LDS parents with LGBTQ children and for those who want to better support those walking this road.
Jill is host of a new podcast called Human Stories where LGBTQ people share their stories. Please check out that podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/human-stories-with-jill-hazard-rowe/id1468623842
Thanks for being on the podcast Jill. Thanks for your example of family, Christlike service, amplifying other’s voices, and saving lives.
My friends Todd Barney (Bishop), Cathryn Tucker (RS President) and Jeralee Renshaw (RS Teacher) of the Alpine 12th Ward talk about Bishop Barney’s question to the Ward Counsel "Is our Ward a safe place for everyone?" That opened up a series of events around inward reflection, individual ministry and classroom discussions to help more members feel like they belong.
Hearing this question my brother David Ostler said: "Is this ward a safe place for everyone", is a profound understanding of what it means to become like Jesus. I wonder if all of us could find ways to introduce this question in any of our comments in class, in a prayer, in a talk, in a lesson. I think that because of its profound simplicity, it could change a culture. Might require multiple times, but it feels true. It feels right. It is right."
Thanks for being on the podcast and sharing your efforts to create an accepting and loving Ward so more can come unto Christ through our restored Church. You are all doing a great work!
Episode 233: Cory and Lynette Braddock, Active LDS, Parents of a Transgender Daughter by Richard Ostler
Episode 232: Max Terry, BYU Student, Helping BYU Students in Faith Crisis by Richard Ostler
My friends Dr. Debra McClendon and Dr. Richard McClendon (both with PHD’s, active LDS, authors, church speakers) talk about their marriage book called “Commitment to the Covenant: Strengthening the Me, We, and Thee of Marriage.” Their book and this podcast have excellent insights into strengthening all marriages. I encourage all our readers (single/married, or in roles to help others) to read this book as it will help improve relationships.
“In recent decades, prophets have repeatedly emphasized how a strong marriage and family is the basis of a robust society; they have counseled and warned of the many modern obstacles that can erode a healthy family life. This book draws on inspiring personal stories, research from sociology and psychology, and teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ to present key principles that, when applied, will help a marriage thrive. The authors use three broad content areas the things we each need to do personally to improve our marriage (me), the things we need to do together as a couple to strengthen our marital relationship (we), and ways we can more fully involve God in our marriage relationship (Thee). This three-part approach is both theoretical and practical and will help guide readers to a successful and happy marriage.”
The book can be picked up at Deseret Book, Seagull Book, Barnes and Noble, or at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Commitment-Covenant-Strengthening-Thee-Marriage/dp/1944394311/. They also maintain a Facebook page at: https://www.facebook.com/DebraRichardMcClendon/
Thank you for being on the podcast. It gave me fresh and helpful insights. I encourage everyone to check out their book and this podcast.
My friends James, Monica and Landon Phillips (all active LDS) join me to share the story of Landon's journey as a transgender Latter-day Saint. Landon shares his experience with gender-dysphoria and coming out to his parents before his mission, serving a mission (including coming out to a wonderful mission president), and transitioning. Landon continues to be active in his Ward, is accepted and has an excellent relationship with Ward leadership.
James and Monica share navigating this road as Landon’s parents, receiving personal revelation, advice for other parents and their testimonies of our restored Church.
My friends Travis and Brenda Sibley (active LDS, Travis is the Bishop in his Ward) bravely share the story of their son Jake’s passing last summer. They talk about Jake’s amazing life and ability to helping others. They share the mental mindset that led him down this road. They talk about the his beautiful funeral where they both spoke. They share how they are moving forward and beginning to heal and messages of hope for others that are considering suicide.
Please learn more about Jake at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtnFoPIaKIyVnTegAvpwYGA which has Jake’s music videos, a slide show from his funeral and other memories of Jake. Also check out Jake’s tweet sharing more about his story and reconnecting with God at https://twitter.com/Paper_Parachute/status/1035404473970188288.
Thank you Travis and Brenda for sharing your story and honoring to your good son Jake. May you all continue to feel Heavenly Father’s love and the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and bring hope.
My friend and neighbor Luke Davenport shares his journey with long-term and debilitating OCD. Luke, who is age 19, has been battling this mental illness—a plague in his life—since age 3. Luke bravely explains this illness, how it can be solved, the life session learns and how he is helping others. He shares the positive roll of his parents and therapists.
While Luke would love to follow many of his friends and serve a teaching mission, he realizes this is not a possible at this time. So Luke, one of the first in our area, has decided to serve a service mission (call opened on Jan 28th) as he understands this is equal and needed service in the sight of Heavenly Father and our Savior.
Luke wants to help others who are not able to service teaching missions, to serve a service mission and to help normalize this type of service as needed and equal to help people come unto Christ.
Thanks for being on the podcast, Luke. You are one of my heroes. And a hero to many others.
My friend Brayden McFadden (active LDS, EFY Counselor, BYU Student) shares his journey coming home from his mission in Alaska after 6 weeks because of his emotional health. Brayden pre-mission life including successfully doing hard things (Texas high school football, early morning seminary). But that firm foundation and spiritual preparation (including a year playing football at BYU) couldn’t prevent what happened on his mission from occurring and he needed to return home.
Brayden talks about what happened, great family support, why church became difficult and why he almost left, why/how he stayed in the church, and how he ultimately healed. Brayden is sharing his story (including his EFY students) to help and support others. I became aware of Brayden’s story because of the IG account 2humansofbyu.
Thanks for being on the podcast Brayden. You are a strong, faithful and brave man. You will give home and heal many.
My friend Patrick Patterson joins us from Waycross Georgia to update our listeners (see episode 39 for his first podcast) on his journey as a gay Latter-Say Saint. Patrick talks about reconciling his sexuality and his faith and how coming out in his Ward and helped his relationship with others and better come unto Christ. He also shares why he chose to stay in member of the Church when he recently considering stepping away.
Thanks for being on the podcast Patrick. You have a great spirit and life mission.
My friends Alex and Thomas (both RMs, BYU Grads and gay Latter-day Saints) share their journey coming out, serving missions, dating women and eventually finding each other. They are getting married in June 2020. They talk about their good family support, strong testimonies of the Church, staying close to God and attending their local Ward where their Bishop is helping them feel welcome.
Great podcast about honoring each other's decisions, finding common group, a loving Bishop and good family support. Thanks for being on the podcast Alex and Thomas. You are doing good things and have a great life together.
My friends Jeff and Holly Fowler (active LDS, parents of 4, former Bishop) join me with their gay son Alec and his husband Blake. Alec and Blake were married in June of 2019. Jeff and Holly talk about supporting Alec and Blake, the wedding, keeping the family circle together, and open and honest communication. Alec and Blake share coming out to friends and family and the excellent relationship they have with both families. Thanks to all of you for being on the podcast. This is a beautiful family love story. Thanks for all your example of goodness, kindness, communication, grace and keeping family relationships strong and healthy.
My friends David and Kathleen Cook, who presided over the Chile Santiago South Mission from 2013-2016, join me to talk about Service Missions. The Cooks are currently serving as Service Mission Leaders in the upstate NY area. David’s prior service includes Area 70 and Stake President. Kathleen’s prior service included Relief Society President, Young Women President and Public Affairs Director for New York.
They are the parents of 4 children and 6 grandchildren.
They have wonderful insights on how to help parents, local leaders, and future missionaries understand Service Missions and Teaching Missions. They share the importance and equality of both types of missions. How both types of service bring people to the Savior and follow His example. They have suggestions how to overcome some of the cultural hurdles to help everyone see both types of missions as needed, equal and serving like the Savior served.
Thanks for being on the podcast Brother and Sister Cook and all you do to serve and lift others. I am very excited about the new Service Mission opportunities (for more information, see https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/callings/missionary/church-service-missionary).
My friend B Winward shares her journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. B is from Utah County, served a mission in Guatemala, is graduating from UVU with a degree in Leadership, and as made humanitarian trips all over the world.
B talks about coming out to herself as gay, overcoming self-harm, coming out to others including her family and current YSA Ward, and her strong testimony of the gospel. B is strong and courageous. You will enjoy listening to her story. Thanks for being on the podcast B. You are awesome. Thanks for bravely sharing some of your journey. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friends LaShawn Williams and James Jones join me to share their lives as Black Latter-day Saints. LaShawn has a Doctorate in Education, is an Assistant Professor at Utah Valley University, has a clinical practice (https://drlashawn.com/), and is a mother of three James served a mission in South Africa, has a degree in Psychology, lives in Boston with a career in music and acting, is a Temple worker and co-host with Derek Knox of the podcast Beyond the Block (https://beyondtheblockpodcast.com/).
They share their journey as Black Latter-day Saints, how they process the complicated issues in our church, how we can do better ministering to our Black members and help more Blacks join our church, the doctrine to Christ to minister to those on the margins, and why they stay committed members.
Thank you LaShawn and James. I learned so much listening to your insights and perspectives. You two are awesome. Thank you for your discipleship to help more come unto Christ through our restored Church.
Our friend, our children’s doctor and ward member, bravely shares his own journey with plans for his suicide. Joe talks about what led up to his plan, why he ultimately choose to live, and his advice to help others not die by suicide.
We may think that someone with a wonderful career (Residency at Duke, 30+ years at a successful Pediatrician, President of the Utah Medical Association) and great family (wonderful wife, five children and 13 grandchildren) would consider suicide. But this was part of Joe’s life and the reality for many of our friends and neighbors.
Please listen to Joe’s story. It will help you if you are suicidal to give you more tools and hope. It will help you help others. Thank you my dear friend for having the courage to share your story. You continue to be someone I deeply admire. If you’d like to contact Joe, please e-mail him at jgcramermd@yahoo.com
My friends, the Marcroft family, share their journey with Quinn their transgender daughter. We start with Quinn sharing her story of coming out, working through difficult emotional issues, stepping away from the church and now living in Portland with her partner. Quinn is a CNA and wants to become a nurse because she wants to help others. Quinn’s story gives so much hope, understand and perspective to anyone who is willing to learn about our transgender friends.
We then hear from Rob and Kyndel, Quinn’s parents who are active Latter-day Saints. They have great insights into raising a transgender daughter and how they are keeping the family circle together in love and support. This family is strong and supportive of each other. It’s a beautiful family love story.
Thanks to all three of you for being on the podcast. You are all awesome.
Our family friend Dr Aaron Wilson, Doctorate of Education BYU and Principal of Granite Park Junior High, joins us to talk about his new podcast. It is called America’s Principal (see http://www.americasprincipal.org/) and is resource for parents with the goal to provide information and resources that will make it easier for parents to navigate the public education system and raise their children. Two of his episodes to date talk about LGBTQ (episode 7 and 15).
Thank you for your great work Aaron wo to make schools safer and more productive … especially for our marginalized populations. I encourage everyone to listen to your podcast.
Episode 217: Jessica and Matt Frew (Active LDS) and Steve Stoddard (Jessica’s gay former husband). by Richard Ostler
I wanted to give you, our listeners, an update on a few topics. I will talk about my LGBTQ POV, upcoming book (fall 2020), podcast history and future, my testimony, church service and additional thoughts. Thank you for joining me and your efforts to make this podcast possible.
My friend Daniela Mera-Pray, age 24 and living in Mexico, shares her journey with her faith crisis. Daniela faith crisis ended with her still believing in our restored Church and staying a committed member. Daniela has great insights to help others in a faith crisis and those ministering to them.
Daniela found community in the Facebook Group Called Uplift Community of Faith (https://www.facebook.com/groups/UpliftCOF/). I encourage anyone in a faith crisis who wants to find a way to stay in our Church to check out this group. Daniela and my friend Leo Winegar are moderators in this group.
Thanks for being on the podcast Daniela. You are awesome. It is wonderful members like you that give me hope for the future.
My friends (and ward members) Mike and Tamie Snarr join me to give the talks they shared in our Ward about ‘sharing the light of Christ’, thoughts on guilt free missionary work, and keeping the family circle together when a child steps away.
Thanks for being on the podcast Mike and Tamie. You two are awesome. Thanks for helping us be better disciples of Christ.
My friend Doug Richens joins me talk about impact of crime and incarceration of individuals, families and communities. Doug, who works for the Church as Sr. Manager in the Priesthood of Family Department, share important work being done in the Church in this area.
While this podcast focuses on incarceration, Doug shares wonderful principals of ministering and insights into the excellent work being done at the Church do meeting the needs of marginalized groups.
Thanks for being on the podcast Doug and all your great work. I was deeply touched and educated by the things your shared.
My friend Darren Bush, a Bishop in Madison Wisconsin, talks about making his ward safe for everyone, helping his ward members focus on Christ, creating an atmosphere that's safe and unconditional loving, so when Ward members need spiritual guidance, they'll feel comfortable knowing he will "judge without being judgmental." Thanks for being on the podcast my friend Darren and all you are doing to help people truly understand the Atonement and come unto Christ through our restored Church.
My friend Jacob Graf shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Jacob feels his path is find a husband and have a family. Jacob is respectful of the church and grateful for the spiritual foundation it provides and his continued relationship with his Heavenly Parents. Jacob and is close to his wonderful and supportive family. Jacob acknowledges he is choosing a path outside the teachings of our church which I sustain and support, and as a fellow human is worthy our support and understanding as he makes his way forward.
Jacob, who is out as gay at work, has a leadership role at Divvy located in Utah County and talks about the positive environment for fellow LGBTQ employees. I’m glad to hear this is a non-issue at Divvy and realize how far we have come as a society.
Thanks for being the podcast, Jacob and sharing your story. You have a great life ahead of you.
My friend Valerie Loveless (active LDS and mother of 3) joins me to talk about the joys and challenges of getting married young, being a ‘stay at home mom’, having a miscarriage and wanting to join the work force. Valerie has wonderful and honest insights to help others.
Valerie talks about the book she wrote ‘Enduring Promises of the Heart’ (https://www.amazon.com/Enduring-Promises-Heart-Valerie-Loveless/dp/1462123074) and her work at Cedar Fort Publishing including their new podcast called ‘Cedar Fort Publishing and Media: Behind the Scenes Podcast’ (https://www.cedarfort.com/pages/cedar-fort-publishing-and-media-behind-the-scenes-podcast)
Thanks for being on the podcast Valerie and thanks for all the good work you and my friend at Cedar Fort Publishing are doing to help others.
My friend Daniel joins me in Philadelphia to share his journey converting to the Church and then serving a mission. Daniel’s emotional health deteriorated on his mission leading to thoughts of suicide and self-harm. Daniel returned to Philadelphia after 9 months. During the next nine months , Daniel’s emotional health further deteriorated with constants thoughts on suicide and self-harm.
Daniel is doing much better and shares how he was able to ‘walk out of this desert’ because of therapy, medication, great friends and local leaders. If you are suicidal or want to help someone, please listen as Daniel bravely shares his story. Daniel also shares why he stays a committed member of the Church.
Thanks for being on the podcast Daniel. You are one of my personal heroes. You have a great life ahead of you!
My friends Kyle and Reece Jacobsen (RMs from Moscow Russia and Ventura California, respectively) share their journey as gay Latter-day Saints. They eventually felt their path was a same-sex marriage and stepped away from the Church. They are respectful of the Church and are please it works for others.
They share how their active LDS families navigated this road and the great support they had at their wedding and going forward. They are both close with their families which is consistent with Church teachings to keep the family circle together. Great job to Kyle’s parents Hugh and Margaret and Reece’s parents Kent and Marilyn.
Thanks for being on the podcast Kyle and Reece and your contributions to society. You are good men who are worthy of our support and friendship as you make your way forward.
My friend Mayor Jon Pike shares his thoughts about our LGBTQ friends including a former missionary companion and a cousin. As mayor of St. George, Jon shares his desire to ‘be the Mayor for everyone’. With that charge, he shares learning about LGBTQ member of his community and what he and his team is doing to meet their needs. He talks about allowing pride flags during this summer pride festival and the community discussion that followed. Jon shared some thoughts in his FB post on Sept 17th: https://www.facebook.com/jon.pike.988/posts/10214245372195049
Thanks for being on the podcast Mayor Pike and all the good you are doing in our community to create a feeling of love, respect and inclusiveness.
My friend Stephen Lambert shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Stephen got married and together they raised 5 children. Stephen came out to his former wife 6 years ago and their marriage ended. Stephen no longer participates/believes in the Church but is respectful and glad it works for others.
Stephen has great insights on mixed-orientations marriages (many do work) our single members considering a mixed-orientation marriage. Stephen also has helpful insights into how to better minister to our LGBTQ members.
As Director of Pride of Southern Utah, Stephen manages the St. George Pride Festival (3rd week of September) in its 4th year with over 3,000 attending. Stephen talks about this ‘family friendly’ event and how it is helping to bring the community together and help our LGBTQ community members.
Thanks for being on the podcast Stephen and all the great work you are doing.
My friend Dr. Tim Hollingshead shares his story of being a YSA Bishop (St George area) helping the YSAs overcome porn. Tim went on a deep dive realizing that he lacked all the tools needed to meet his YSA needs. After Tim was released he started freein13.com to help people escape the trap of pornography.
If you are working to solve porn or are trying to help others, please listen to this podcast and go to freein13.com. This is an inspired program to help solve this challenge. I wish I had these resources during my YSA assignment.
Thanks for being on the podcast Tim and all your great work to help and bless others.
My friends David (Psychology major at BYU) and Jordyn (Dental Hygienist major at UVU) share their journey with scrupulosity. Since they are walking this road, they have great insights to help others. The have started an Instagram account about their story @scrupcrew (please follow to learn more).
Thanks for being on the podcast and bravely sharing your story. You two are awesome and are helping so many!
My friends John and Jenny Dye share their work with the #LightTheWorld initiative (including the new elements announced for 2019), John’s work on the Mormon and Gay web site (https://mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org/) and Jenny’s great podcast called Mormon News Report (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mormon-news-report-podcast/id1258689254).
Wonderful efforts to help us Come unto Christ through our restored Church.
Thanks for being on the podcast John and Jenny. You two are awesome!
My friend Marian Bergin, age 84 in December, shares her insights of being a parent of two gay sons and a grandmother of a gay grandchild. Marian (who was a social worker) has great insights into how being LGBTQ is not a choice and what LDS parents can do to ensure healthy choices for their LGBTQ children.
Marian expresses her wish for an event that she believes could improve the culture of our Church for our LGBTQ members and what we can do to improve the culture of the Church for our LGBTQ members.
Thanks for being on the podcast, Marian. It was an honor to hear your story and your multiple decade perspective on this topic. Thanks for all the ways you service to help our Church and society do better. You are one of my new heroes.
My friends Brett and Becky Barney, who drove from Nebraska, share their experiences related to Brett's same-sex attraction. Both in their 50’s and married for 32 years, Brett shares why he decided to come out to Becky about 3.5 years ago and how their marriage is stronger than ever. It is a beautiful love story. Brett (EQ President) and Becky (RS Presidency) talk about why they publicly share their story in their Stake and with friends and their deep commitment to our restored Church.
You will enjoy this podcast as Brett and Becky have great insights into successful marriages, role of loving Heavenly Parents and the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and talking about sensitive subjects in a faithful way.
Thanks for being on the podcast. You two are awesome. Brett can be reached at obsequious.dictaphone@gmail.com and Becky at beckyslittlebakery@gmail.com
My friend Kyle Friant bravely shares his story growing up in central Utah, serving a mission in Bulgaria (coming home after 8 months), being home, going back out and serving in Pittsburg (coming home after 3 months), confronting being gay, and almost leaving the church. Kyle, who wrote 20 resignation letters but never sent them in, takes about why he decided to come back to Church and is now a committed member. It’s a remarkable story.
Thanks for being on the podcast Kyle. You are one of my new heroes. You have a great life ahead of you and will do so much good in our church and society to help others.
My friends Tim and Aubrey Chaves (parents of 4 children) talk about their faith crisis/transition and why they stay active LDS. It’s a beautiful story. They also share creating a feeling of belonging at church, their role with Faith Matters (check out https://faithmatters.org/), wonderful gifts of a faith crisis and conclude with Tim’s journey with scrupulosity.
If you are in a faith crisis and want to stay in the Church (or are helping others stay), please listen to this podcast. Tim and Aubrey have incredible insights and a wonderful testimony of our beautiful restored doctrine. You can read from Tim at https://timchaves.com/.
Thanks for being on the podcast, Tim and Aubrey. You two are awesome and give me hope for the future of our Church and society. Thanks for all you are doing to bless and help others.
My friend, Dillan Conrad, active LDS, straight LGBTQ ally, and married father of two boys, bravely shares his personal story of being a man who has never enjoyed "typical male things" and who has spent many years coming to terms with his negative self body image.
Dillan also shares about serving as a full time missionary in Houston, TX. He tells of “rescuing the one” with Catharine who he stayed in contact with after his mission and spoke at her funeral.
Thanks for being on the podcast Dillan. Our church is better off with you as a member. Best wishes to you, your wife and your family.
My friend Mike Ramsey, married father of 4, joins us to talk about his new book published by Cedar Fort called ‘My Dad’s a Muslim, My Mom’s a Lesbian, and I’m a Latter-day Saint’. You can purchase the book at: https://mikeramsey.org/book-my-dads-a-muslim-my-moms-a-lesbian-and-im-a-latter-day-saint/. It will also be purchased as Deseret Book, Seagull Book or Amazon.
Mike shares growing up without a father in his life and a lesbian mother. Mike became active in the Church, served a mission, and along with his life Hilary, are raising a family. Mike shares staying close to his mother Janet and her life partner Tina. It’s a beautiful love story of navigating complicated family dynamics to keep the family circle together.
If you have LGBTQ people in your life, would like to minister to them, or are LGBTQ, I encourage you to read Mike’s book. Wonderful insights and gospel principals.
My friend Sister Ganel-Lyn Condie (author of 7 books and over 800 speaking engagements) joins us to talk about her ‘Come Follow Me’ YouTube series (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa4odUWX7xWihiuGD4OujAQ), ‘Why I Stay’ (in the Church, Marriage and Body), her new podcast call ‘The Reconnect Podcast’ (https://www.facebook.com/thereconnectpodcast/) and insights in our millennial members.
Thanks for being on the podcast Ganel-Lyn and all your great work to bring hope to some many through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
My friend Annette Tidball joins us to talk about her new book ‘Fly Again’ (on Amazon) about the tragic death of her husband Brian in their mid-30’s following 10 years of marriage with 4 kids at home. Check out her book at: https://www.amazon.ca/FLY-AGAIN-Want-You-Live-ebook/dp/B07ZPSWPMT/
Annette has wonderful insights to help others dealing with a tragic death and what we can do to minister to those on this road. Annette also talks about why she decided to write this book which I encourage our listeners to read.
Thanks for being on the podcast Annette for bravely sharing your journey. We appreciate your courage, faith, and example.
My friend Jimmy Rex (business owner, life coach, mentor, friend to many) shares his life story. Jimmy shares his church story including his mission in Mexico, staying active in the church, dating in and out of the church, but then gradually stepping away.
He talks about what we could have done better to perhaps help him stay. Jimmy is supportive of the Church and is pleased that it is working for others. Yea, I’m sad when someone steps away but I also want to keep them in my circle and see their contributions to society.
Jimmy is moving forward in his life in remarkable ways and shares some of his hope-filled and non-shaming thoughts to help others. Thanks for being on the podcast Jimmy. You a great man doing remarkable things.
My friend Scott Braithwaite discusses stages of faith (Fowler model) and suicide (Joyner model). Scott presented both at BYU Education Week. Great podcast to help minister for those in a faith crisis/transition to help those who are suicidal. Also a great podcast if you are in a faith crisis or are suicidal. I wish I had known some of the things Scott shares before my YSA service.
Scott has a unique perspective/voice on both topics from his clinical training (PhD is Clinical Psychology), pastoral ministry (recently served as a Bishop) and clinical practice. You can read more at: https://fhssfaculty.byu.edu/FacultyPage/srb37
Thank you for being on the podcast Scott and your service to help so many work through complicated topics and bring people to Christ.
My friend Brother Emmett Claren calls in from California to share his journey as a transgender man. Emmett shares the long-term gender dysphoria he felt from a young age and the accompanied feelings of depressions leading to suicide attempts. Emmett shares serving as a sister missionary (Salt Lake City) and then starting to transition after the mission while at BYU-Idaho. Emmett shares his experience with supportive priesthood leaders as he went through the social, legal and medical stages of transition.
Emmett shares how he is in a much better plan emotionally and spiritually, has a great relationship with his family, and his Heavenly Parents. Great podcast to learn about our transgender Latter-day Saints.
Thank you my friend and brother Emmett for being on the podcast and sharing your journey.
My friend Dr. McClendon, licensed psychologist and frequent speaker at Education Week, joins us to talk about two articles she has written for the Ensign on anxiety and scrupulosity.
Anxiety: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2019/04/young-adults/discerning-your-feelings-anxiety-or-the-spirit
Scrupulosity: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2019/09/young-adults/understanding-scrupulosity-religious-ocd
Scrupulosity, or religious OCD, is something every LDS parent and local leader should understand. Instead of OCD that manifests itself in something like hand washing, it is spiritual OCD that manifests itself in toxic/tormenting guilt, continued confessions, feelings of never being worthy, loss of the spirit, and such. Like other mental illnesses, it needs to be treated by someone with expertise in this area. It can’t be solved with increased religious behaviors because it is not a spiritual weakness.
I wish I understood scrupulosity before my YSA assignment. It would have helped me better meet the needs of some of my YSAs. I encourage parents, local leaders and those of you that feel anxiety interferes with your ability to feel the Spirit or feel you are always unworthy to listen to this podcast.
Thank you, Dr. McClendon, for your great work and being on the podcast. I’m glad the Ensign published your articles.
If you’d like to contact Dr. McClendon to speak on anxiety or scrupulosity (which I encourage), you can contact her at: dtmcclendon@yahoo.com. You can also check out www.debramcclendon.com for more information.
Also, Debra and her husband Richard have written the book: ‘Commitment to the Covenant: Strengthening the Me, We, and Thee of Marriage.’ It is available at Deseret Book: https://deseretbook.com/p/rsc-commitment-to-the-covenant?variant_id=157152-hardcover. It is also available on the Amazon and Barnes and Noble websites. Please check out their book. They give presentations on marriage at Education Week and may also be available to speak for your group.
My dear friends Joe and Amy Pierson (married 27 years, parents of 6 children and 1 grandchild) bravely share the story of Joe’s 20+ year addiction to pornography.
Yes, it almost ended their marriage. And pornography ends some marriages.
Through hard work, the Savior’s help and a deeply spiritual experience feeling God’s love, Joe has been free of pornography for nearly three years. It’s a brutal road of shame and dishonesty resulting in significant emotional pain (betrayal trauma) for Amy. It is also a beautiful love story of Joe and Amy struggling, but determined to keep their marriage together, with 12-step programs, learning to surrender, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
When I served as a YSA Bishop, many of the wonderful YSA’s were working to solve this problem. I wish I had heard Joe and Amy’s story back then. It would have given me additional tools to help others overcome pornography. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast. It will help you help others. If you are working to overcome pornography, this podcast will give you more tools and hope.
Here are a couple of lines of wisdom from Amy and Joe:
My worth is set. Everything else is experience Repentance from sin is not the same of recovery from addiction The 12-steps are the Atonement of Jesus Christ in action Forgiveness and trust are two different things.
Amy and Joe are heroes to me (and my others) for bravely sharing their story. Stories like these are so needed. They are available to speak in Ward/Stake events. We have plenty of messages of ‘stay away from pornography’. I agree with this message. But we need more stories of people actually walking this road as they authentically help others.
Thanks for being on the podcast Joe and Amy. You two are awesome.
My friend Thomas Richins shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint growing up in Joplin Missouri, serving a mission in Brazil, battling depression, coming out as gay to his family and a few close friends and then more broadly on this Facebook post https://www.facebook.com/thomas.richins.9/posts/1085974584945350 Thomas talks about great family support and his strong relationship with Heavenly Father and our Savior. Thanks for sharing your story, Thomas. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
My friend Andrea Sorensen, a convert to the LDS Church, shares her journey with her parents addictions (Dad with Alcohol and Mother with Opioids). Andrea’s mother Debbie died from her addictions in June 2018. Andrea is on a mission to eliminate the shame around addictions so people be more likely to solve this challenge. She has so many helpful and thoughtful insights. I wish I had heard someone like Andrea before my YSA service.
If you are working to solve an addiction (drugs, porn, etc) or are trying to help others, please listen (and share) this podcast. Thank you Andrea for your great work. To have Andrea speak at your Stake, Ward or event, email andreajeanbooking@gmail.com or follow along on her journey to share hope on Instagram @andreajeansorensen or on her blog at www.andreajeansorensen.com You can also find her on Facebook at www.facebook.com/andreajeansorensen.
Thanks for being on the podcast Andrea. You are giving hope and healing to so many!
My friend Tyler Barber shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Tyler talks about being less active but then returning to full activity and served a mission in Paris France. Tyler talks about knowing he is gay since age 12 and how he is navigating this road. Tyler came out to friends and family about 2 years ago. Tyler no longer participates in the Church but is respectful of those who love the Church and want to stay.
Tyler is part of a peer mentor ship program entitled the ACES at SUU which is a campus group helping all students feel welcome. He talks about the good work that Eric Kirby is doing at SUU (Assistant Vice President, SUU and guest on episode 38).
Tyler shares insights and principles that keep us together even in our differences. Tyler talks to those who are considering suicide and has helpful insights to help them stay. Tyler has started a blog at mytaboolife.worldpress.com.
Thanks for being on the podcast Tyler. You are doing great things and have a wonderful life ahead of you!
My friend Jeralee Renshaw, married mother of four and nine grandchildren, shares her journey of a life of Church service. All was going well until about eight years, when their oldest son came to them and described his deconstruction of belief in the LDS Church. A journey which eventually took his family out of the Church. That kind of rocked her world. Jeralee shares how she navigating this road which led her to better understand the facts of our church history and the need to share those openly and honestly in a faithful way. Jeralee and her husband continue to be active in the Church and have a great relationship with all their children. There are no empty seats around their table.
Jeralee talks about how her Ward leadership is making sure their ward is a safe place for everyone. She shares valuable and important insights to make this happen including her recent RS lesson and the positive impact all these efforts are having on their Ward.
Jeralee and my older brother David started a support group for LDS parents who have adult children that have stepped away. This group can be found at https://www.facebook.com/groups/BridgesLDSParents/
Thanks for being on the podcast, Jeralee. You voice, perspective and insight into the Gospel of Jesus Christ are so need to help more stay and keep families close if one steps away.
My friend Kathryn and Tyler McDonald, parents of two girls, join us to share Kathryn’s journey with her eating disorder. Kathryn bravely shares her story bulimia and anorexia with inpatient treatment and a relapse after some big life changes. She is able to connect the dots that this isn’t really about foot but about more complex ‘bottom of the iceberg’ issues. Kathryn takes the shame out of an eating disorder which increases the ability to solve this. She talks about the beautiful people she has met along the way and her ability to have more empathy and understanding for others on a difficult road.
She shares opening up while dating to her future husband Tyler (now an oral surgeon in Wenatchee, WA) about her eating disorder and his ‘home-run’ response. This section is one of the highlights of the podcast.
Please listen to this podcast if you have an eating disorder or want to help someone on this road. Thank you Kathryn and Tyler for being on the podcast. You two are awesome and will continue to help and heal a lot of people.
My friend Karl Malchut joins us to tell his story. Karl talks about growing up gay in a religious family, leaving that faith and joining the LDS Church and now being Jewish. Karl talks about being grateful for his time in the Church. Karl talks about his life being gay, insights learned and hopes for the future.
Karl also shares his role as President of the Affirmation Chicago and his goals to bring more understanding between our LGBTQ member and the LDS Church. Affirmation Chicago has a Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/AffimationChicagoChapter/. At that page you can check out their next event on October 26th.
Thanks for being on the podcast Karl. You are a good man and friend.
My friend Sarah Bowers shares her journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Sarah, who lives in California and is in her late 20s, earned a degree in International Studies and wants to get a Masters in Social Work. Sarah shares her thoughts about her future, strong relationship with Heavenly Parents, coming out to her parents and her relationship with her YSA Bishop.
Sarah shares how she would like to share her life with a woman. While I wouldn’t invite anyone down a road outside the doctrine of our Church that I sustain and support, I think it is important to hear stories of how to keep the family circle together and the good work Sarah and her YSA Bishop are doing to stay connected. Thanks for being on the podcast, Sarah. You have a great life ahead of you.
My friend Trevor Searle shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. He talks about always wanting to do the right thing (including serving a mission, marrying a woman and having a family).
Trevor talks about how his sexual orientation never changed, which led him to conclude he is a 'monster' and should die. Trevor talks about his near suicide and Heavenly Father answering his prayer that he shared in this moving post: https://www.facebook.com/trevor.searle.33/posts/%2010219274388241319
Yes, I’m sad when a marriage ends. Yes, there is so much pain for all involved. Yes, I’m sad when someone steps away from our Church. But that is the reality of some situations and we can all agree that suicide is the worst outcome. I’ve learned to not pass judgement when a marriage ends as I can never fully understand the complexities of each situation.
Neither Trevor or me believe/hope other mixed-orientation marriages will fail. This is only Trevor's story. I've done many podcasts of thriving and successful mixed-orientation marriages (http://www.listenlearnandlove.org/mixed-orientation-marriage-podcasts). They are beautiful love stories.
I feel confident Trevor will continue to be a great Dad to his two children, will continue to bless many people through his nursing career, and give hope to others who are considering suicide. I’m glad Trevor chose to stay. Be like Trevor. Please stay.
My friend Lark Galley bravely shares the story of her 19 year old son who died by suicide. She is now living her worst nightmare. Lark, like others, is openly and passionately talking about this subject to help solve this tragic problem in our community and help heal the hearts of those impacted.
Here is a link to Christian’s obituary: https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/saltlaketribune/obituary.aspx?n=christian-galley&pid=191899632&fhid=4550
Thank you Lark for having the courage to share your story. You have powerful and helpful insights. Thanks for being on the podcast.
My friend Caleb Jones share wonderful insights into the Gospel of Jesus Christ, faith transitions, serving others, and why he stays a committed Latter-day Saint. Caleb also talks about the LGBT FHE that has started in his Stake. Great podcast for those who are in a faith transition and want to remain LDS and for those looking for added insights into Christ teachings.
Caleb also discusses Elder Uchtdorf’s powerful 2015 talk about ministering https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-uchtdorf-transcript-salt-lake-inner-city-mission. We encourage everyone to read this talk.
Thanks for being on the podcast Caleb. I wish all of us could be in your Sunday School class. Thanks for your insights and discipleship.
My friends Xian Mackintosh and Karson Phippen share they journey as gay Latter-day Saints. Both served missions (Detroit and Philippines, respectively) and are moving forward in their lives. Xian has a Master in Social Work and Karson is looking forward to Medical School. They share staying close to Heavenly Father and the great support they are receiving from family and friends especially for their wedding in August 2019.
Xian and his parents Scott and Becky Mackintosh joined me on Episode 173 to share the family story and Becky’s new book called ‘Love Boldly: Embracing your LGBTQ Loved Ones and Your Faith’. I encourage everyone to read this book (available of Deseret Book, Seagull Book and Amazon).
Yes, their path is outside the doctrine of our church that I sustain and support. But these good men are still worthy of friendship and support as they use their agency to choose their path. I hope and believe their marriage succeeds. I love these words from Becky Mackintosh from their Church video realizing her son was stepping way: ‘I should be curled up in a ball, crying and thinking, “What’s happened to my eternal family?” Once you let it go, I’m laying this on the Savior’s feet, it feels like this big load is lifted, and you do have a peace (https://mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org/videos?id=11549365994538963301).
Thank you Xian and Karson for sharing some of your story. You two have great lives ahead of you.
My friend Mikal Bitter, age 21 working on a Master’s at Utah State in HR, shares his life story. He talks about coming to terms with being gay, excellent family support, moving forward in his life, respect for the LDS church and hopes/dreams for the future. Thanks for sharing your story, Mikal. Great podcast for helping to keep the family together. Thanks for being on the podcast Mikal. You are a good man and have a great life ahead of you.
My friend Travis and Margaret Steward, active LDS, parents of 6 children, Mission President in Houston from 2005-2008, share their story with Travis coming out as gay to his wife in 2014 and then more broadly to trusted friends and family members.
Travis bravely shares the 40+ years of shame and self-loathing being in the closet as a gay Latter-day Saint and how this shame is now gone. Travis shares how he now has a much deeper relationship with Christ and sees himself worthy of God’s love.
They both share how they are navigating this road. Their marriage is real, authentic and a beautiful love story.
Travis and Margaret have wonderful insights on the Gospel of Jesus Christ and how we can better minister to all of God’s children.
As I recorded this podcast, I felt I was on sacred ground as this great couple shared their journey and insights. Often with tears in all our eyes. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast as you will gain valuable insights to be better disciples of Christ and the road our LGBTQ members walk.
Thank you Travis and Margaret for sharing your story. You two are awesome. Thanks for blessing 1000s. We love both of you!
My friend Leanne Tressler (mother of 7 children) joins us to talk about her journey ‘living her worst nightmare’ with her husband Spencer (age 39, died Oct 2015) and her old son Kaden (age 16, died April 2019) both completing suicide. Leanne has been sharing valuable lessons and insights on her Facebook page. Check out these posts:
https://www.facebook.com/leanne.paynetressler/posts/10157779753572022
https://www.facebook.com/leanne.paynetressler/posts/10157659894277022
Please listen to his podcast. Leanne has remarkable things to say.
It will give you more hope to stay. It will give you more tools to help others. It will help all of us talk openly about suicide so we can better solve this tragedy in our community. I’m grateful for Brother Reed Blackburn (Seminary Teacher at Cottonwood High and a cousin to Leanne) for facilitating this podcast.
Leanne: We love you and your family. Thank you for the courage to share your story
My friend Ray shares her journey as bisexual Latter-day Saint. She served a mission in Florida (came out to her Bishop and Stake President before serving). Ray also came out to her Mission President and companions. It’s a wonderful story and Ray has excellent insights for queer Latter-day Saints … especially those who are considering serving missions. Ray is at BYU with a strong testimony of our Restored Church and a unique life mission to reach and help others to Christ through our Restored Church.
Thanks for being on the podcast, Ray. You are awesome.
My friends Paul and Shannon share their journey with Paul being an extrovert and Shannon being an introvert. Shannon, mother of four and professional coach, shares how being an introvert can make her experience with the church culture difficult. She shares brave and thoughtful insights. She is now at peace being an introvert and shares her unique ability to reach and lift others in ways that are different that typical Latter-day Saints.
Paul, who serves as EQ President in his Heber City Ward, shares the strength of their marriage and how these differences bring them together, help better serve others, and help them raise their four children. Paul is on IG at @ltldrmmrboy and Shannon is on IG at @sci_tri.
To learn more about our introvert brothers and sisters, please read: QUIET: The power of introverts in a world that can’t stop talking
Thank you for sharing your journey. You two are awesome. I learned so much from both of you and now better understand the unique road our introverted members of our Church walk and their unique contributions.
My dear friends Becky and Scott Mackintosh (active LDS, Recent YSA Bishop) join me on the podcast with their wonderful son Xian (recently married to his husband Karson). Xian offered a wonderful prayer before we recorded and I hope you feel the spirit of love and understanding.
The Mackintosh family is featured on this church produced video from 2017 https://mormonandgay.churchofjesuschrist.org/videos?id=11549365994538963301⟨=eng
This good family talks about Christ’s doctrine and principals to keep the family circle together even when one member chooses a path outside our doctrine.
This story is part of Becky’s Mackintosh’s new book (release date Sept 10th) called ‘Love Boldly: Embracing Your LGBTQ Loved Ones and Your Faith.” Available at available at Deseret Book. Seagull Book, Barnes & Noble and Amazon
Here is the Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Love-Boldly-Embracing-LGBTQ-Loved/dp/1462135943/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1VUB1O66X9WW1&keywords=becky+mackintosh&qid=1566589126
I encourage everyone to buy this book and share it with your family, friends and local ward leaders.
Thanks for being on the podcast Becky, Scott and Xian. You are all awesome.
My friend Patrick Risk joins me to update us on his journey (earlier podcast is episode 45). Patrick, who is a survivor of sexual abuse (age 6-12) from male cousin, bravely shares his journey of his marriage (fall of 2018) being annulled, coming to terms with his same-sex attraction and moving forward in this life.
Patrick talks about trying to end the ‘what if’ cycle on how his life would be different without the sexual abuse and moving forward with a ‘what now’ framework.
Patrick works for the Church (meetinghouse facilities), volunteers with suicide crisis text line, and is working with elected official to get more funding for global poverty initiatives.
Patrick is a hero to me for having the courage to share his story. He is strong, vulnerable, and courageous. Patrick knows the ‘desert’ of pain that comes from the trauma that occurs in our life, often outside of our control (and 100% not our fault), and how to use the Atonement and doctrine of Jesus Christ to heal and move forward. Patrick now has a unique life mission to lead others out of their ‘deserts’ with his ability to give hope and point them to Christ.
Thanks for having the guts and courage to be on the podcast, Patrick. It was deeply spiritual experience for me and will be for our listeners. You are a great man, one of my heroes and have a wonderful future.
My friend Amber Richardson, BYU graduate in theater, bravely shares her journey as a survivor of childhood sexual assault. Amber started a podcast called ‘On Sovereign Wings,’ so that other women could share their stories of reclaiming their power after sexual assault. Amber has great insights into the difficulty our members on this road encounter, and how to help them heal and have more hope. Amber knows this desert and hopes to help others find their way out as she makes her own journey into wholeness. Amber is working on a book called ‘Woman, Crowned’ (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1000901601/woman-crowned) dedicated to the queens in our scriptures. Amber talks about one of these queens, Bathsheba, with thoughtful and remarkable insights in this episode.
My friends Kirk Richard and Allison Dayton (both active LDS) join me to talk about Kirk’s painting and its message for our LGBTQ members. Allison gave this painting to her gay son Jake for Christmas in 2018 and shares how their family is navigating this road. It’s a beautiful family love story. Allison also talks about her new organization called Lift and Love (check it out on IG at @liftandloveorg).
Kirk talks about why he did this painting including the 7 perfect sides. Kirk also shares the doctrine of Christ behind this painting and helpful insights about our LGBTQ members as Kirk has friends on this road. We also talk about the ‘signal’ the painting sends to our LGBTQ members that you are safe person. Sister Alyssa Edwards, a High School Seminary Teacher, has this painting hanging in her seminary office (see Episode 165).
Thanks for being on the podcast. The two of you are awesome.
My friend RJ joins me to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. RJ served a mission in Bolivia, graduated from Utah State and served as an EQ President. RJ then stepped away from the church for about 8 months. RJ received a scholarship to ASU (Speech-Language Pathology) and decided to give his new Tempe YSA Ward a chance in the Fall of 2018. RJ shares the two things that needed to happen (which did occur) that week for him to become active in the Ward.
RJ shares meeting Bishop and Sister Steele during the mingle, coming out as gay, and then meeting with Bishop Steele later that day. RJ loves this good couple and their ability to help RJ feel needed and welcome.
RJ shares about Bishop Steele’s prayer for someone with music talents to join the Ward and extending a call to RJ to serve as the Ward Music Chair in answer to that prayer. RJ gave a powerful talk in his YSA ward about the doctrine of Christ to love everyone and shared some of his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Link to talk: https://www.dropbox.com/s/55zqjvvp7ppo9xx/RJ%20Risueno%20Talk.pdf?dl=0
RJ finishes the podcast performing on the piano ‘Beautiful Savior’ arranged by Jason Tonoili.
My friend Michael Secrist joins us to share his 20 + year journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Michael starts with the Stake Conference talk he gave in the Long Beach East Stake on Saturday, January 19th 2019 where he came out as gay to the whole Stake. I was at this Stake Conference and it was a deeply moving experience. After the meeting, there was an hour long line to greet him.
Michael then shares more of his journey including some wonderful experiences and some very difficult experiences. Currently, Michael serves on the Stake Public Affairs Committee in his Stake and shares the work of many to help everyone in the Stake feel welcome and included. The Stake vision is ‘Creating Zion’.
Michael mentions church counseling resources available to local leaders at (sign with your LDS account to see if you have access): counselingresources.churchofjesuschrist.org.
Thanks for being on the podcast my dear friend Michael. You are a great man and friend. It is an honor for me to facilitate thousands hearing your story. You are healing many people (both professionally and by sharing your journey as a gay Latter-day Saint).
My brother David Ostler joins us to talk about this new book ‘Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question’ (available at Deseret Book, Gregg Kofford Books and Amazon). Dave shares why her wrote the book, findings, implications and what we can do differently. Please see Dave’s page at https://www.bridgeslds.com/. Dave shares how members who question need three key things: 1) Trust 2) Belonging and 3) Meaning.
This book (currently #1 in Mormonism at Amazon) gives better pastoral tools for parents and local leaders to meet the spiritual needs of their members with honest questions. This book also helps those with questions and desire to stay members of our Church.
I encourage everyone to read his book (search ‘David Ostler’) at Deseret Book, Amazon or Kofford Books and share it with family members and local leaders.
Thank you Dave for being on the podcast and helping our Church better minister to our members who have sincere questions.
My friends Marsha and Aiden Aizumi share their 20 year journey with Aiden being a transgender man. It is a beautiful love story of learning, growing, listening and now sharing their story. Marsha and Aiden (who are not LDS) spoke at the CCEJ interfaith breakfast in 2018 that was sponsored by President and Sister Fersch (Stake President of the Long Beach East Stake). It was here the Fersch’s first heard the Aizumi’s story. President and Sister Fersch were so moved that they invited them to speak to the leadership of their Stake to help better meet the needs of the Stake’s LGBTQ members.
This is a great podcast to better understand and support our transgender friends and the unique road this walk as we keep our families together.
Marsha and Aiden received great support from PFLAG (https://pflag.org/) and wrote a book called “Two Spirits, One Heart’ https://www.amazon.com/Two-Spirits-One-Heart-Transgender/dp/1936833182/ref=asc_df_1936833182
Thanks for being on the podcast Aiden and Marsha. You two are awesome. It is a beautiful love story of how we better love and support each other.
My friend Sister Alyssa Edwards joins us to talk about issues facing our High School LDS members and her deep testimony of our Restored Church. Alyssa shares her journey as an early release missionary (which gives her added skills to connect with her students), discussions with her students about LGBTQ, role of women, overcoming sin and faith crisis. Alyssa gives wonderful insights in how to meet these students where they are and point them towards the hope and healing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
To show she is safe for her LGBTQ students (and really all her students) to open up if needed, she has a copy of J. Kirk Richard’s painting ‘Jesus Said Love Everyone’ hanging in her office. This painting was originally commissioned by our family friend Allison Dayton as a Christmas gift for her gay son Jake.
Thanks for being on the podcast Alyssa. You are awesome. Thanks for sharing your voice and all you are doing to bring the hope of the Gospel of Jesus Christ into the lives of others
Elder Callister joins us to talk about his book ‘A Case For The Book of Mormon’. See: https://deseretbook.com/p/a-case-for-the-book-of-mormon?variant_id=171322-hardcover. Elder Callister shares wonderful insights about the truthfulness of this book, answers to critics and the restored doctrine it teaches. I’m grateful to my wife Sheila who gave me a copy of the book which I enjoyed reading.
This book is a key part of my testimony of the truthfulness of our Restored Church, the Prophet Joseph Smith and its ability to bring me to Christ. Thank you Elder Callister for being on the podcast and your decades of ministry to bring people to Christ through our Restored Church.
My longtime friend Ryan Kelly (active LDS, married, mid-30’s) shares the story of receiving deep promptings following Elder Cook’s Oct 2011 talk about those who died in the Titanic (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/the-songs-they-could-not-sing?lang=eng) to find and then tell the story of his great-uncle Jerry Kelly who died in World War II age 20. Jerry (who was Senior Class President at Granite High in 1942) left no posterity to share his story. Ryan accepted this ‘calling’ and has spent hundreds of hours piecing together Jerry’s story which was clearly led by Jerry on the other side of the veil.
It is a deeply spiritual story. Jerry’s story was published in this Ensign article https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/02/young-adults/loving-those-who-have-gone-before-us?lang=eng and is part of this book published by Ken Evans who is the son of Don Evans one of Jerry’s fellow LDS pilots. This remarkable book can be found at https://www.amazon.com/MISSING-World-Friendships-Courage-Survival/dp/1732370206.
Thank you Ryan for bring Jerry’s story to life. It’s almost like he was there as we recorded the podcast. Thanks for your example of the importance of Temple and Family History and the resulting blessings in our lives as our hearts turn to those who have left.
My friend Scott Osmond bravely shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Scott, who lives in Long Beach and has his own financial systems consulting business, shares growing up as a gay Latter-day Saint and staying active until his early 30’s. It was a difficult road and Scott courageously did the best he could. For the last 18 years, Scott has not been active in the Church until his Stake President Emerson Fersch and his Bishop Jeff Perry knocked on his door one Sunday morning in January 2019. Scott shares how President Fersch wanted to hear his full story including the pain of being gay and LDS. President Fersch invited Scott to speak in the Long Beach East Stake Conference in June 2019 and share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Scott and another gay member of the Stake, Michael Secrist, have conducted leadership trainings and also started LGBTQ FHE and LGBTQ Allies night. This is all part of President Fersch’s vision to create ‘Zion’ in his Stake.
Thank you to Jonna Feeman Comstock who connected me with your story and many others who love and support Scott.
You are a great man, Scott. It was an honor to hear your story. Thanks for being alive. Thanks for keeping the door open that maybe there is a place for you in our Church and that your voice is needed to help us become the Body of Christ we need to become. You are one of my heroes.
My friend Trey shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. We start with growing up in San Diego and coming out to his family (good experience), church leaders and friends. Like all my LGBTQ friends, it’s a difficult road. Trey shares going to BYU Idaho and coming out to his five roommates (good experience and they sincerely wanted to understand Trey’s experience). Trey is transferring to the University of Utah. Trey shares thoughts on ending stereotypes about our LGBTQ friends.
Trey shares his belief in the Church, positive experience at EFY, his desire to stay close to God and also to find a husband to share his life with. Thanks Trey for sharing your journey. You are a good man with a wonderful life ahead of you.
My friend Shelby Hintze shares her insights into a number of topics including being disabled, how to better value women’s voices at church, what she tried to accomplish as a YSA RS President and her role as a producer at KSL (Doug Wright show at 9 am Sunday).
There are so many incredible nuggets of ‘Shelby Wisdom’ shared to help us better meet the needs of all of God’s children. I encourage everyone to listen to the podcast and connect with Shelby on Twitter @ShelbyHintze. Thanks for being on the podcast Shelby. You are awesome.
My friend Luke Warnock bravely shares his journey of coming to terms with his sexual orientation during his time at Corner Canyon (High School in Salt Lake City area) while serving as SBO President and a starting member of the State Championship Basketball team. Luke shares coming out to close friends, his family and eventually broadly at Corner Canyon. It’s a remarkable and courageous story. Luke talks about the great support he is receiving from the Corner Canyon community and his hopes for the future including becoming a therapist so he can help people.
Luke first shared his story on Jill Hazard Rowe’s podcast called Human Stories (see https://www.spreaker.com/show/human-stories-with-jill-hazard-rowe). Check out this great podcast. Luke can be found on IG at luke.war
Thank you Luke for the courage to share your story. You are a great man. Your story will help so many as you give vision and hope. You have a great life ahead of you. Thanks for being on the podcast.
Our family friend Carlos Barbagelata shares his journey moving forward in life as a gay man. Carlos came out at age 14 to friends and family and has received amazing support. Carlos went on to the University of Utah where he earned an undergraduate degree and a Master’s degree (Health Promotion and Education). He now works for IHC. Carlos also was at concert during the Las Vegas mass shooting and shares that horrible experience.
You are a good man and friend, Carlos. Thanks for having the courage to share some of your journey. Our society is better off with you in it and all the contributions you are making. Thanks for being on the podcast.
My friend Thomas McConkie shares his story stepping away from the LDS faith for about 20 years (age 13 – 32) and then returning. While away Thomas lived around the world and developed a deep spirituality as he connected with and learned from the good in other faiths. About 7 years ago while in Salt Lake City, Thomas shares spiritual experiences that led him back into the LDS faith.
Thomas started a nonprofit called Lower Lights to heal and bring hope to others. Check out: https://lowerlightsslc.org/
On a personal note when I went through my mini-faith crisis while serving as a YSA Bishop, Thomas’ book was one of the three books that I read that helped get through that time (which I’m now glad occurred) helping me to stay a committed member of the Church. Thomas’ book is at: https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Wirthlin-McConkie/e/B0164TIIJK%3Fref
Thank you for being on the podcast, Thomas. You have a unique and beautiful life ministry. Bringing all your experiences, gifts and insights to bring hope and healing to others.
My friend Rebecca Buffington (living in the Atlanta area) shares her journey in a ‘mixed-faith marriage’. Jeb (a RM) and Rebecca were married 20 years ago in the Mount Timpanogos Temple. 5 years into their marriage with two young children, Jeb told Rebecca he no longer believed. They have been on this road for the last 15 years. Jed still doesn’t believe. Rebecca shares valuable lessons to keep their marriage together based on personal revelation and common goals. The principals she teaches and the insights she’s learned help marriages grow stronger. It’s not been easy. But it is a beautiful love story. I felt such a great spirit as Rebecca shared her story and love of her family.
This is a podcast that teaches principals to keep us together even in our differences. Thank you Rebecca for being on the podcast. You and your family are awesome.
My friends Madi (bisexual) and Miles (straight) share their journey as active Latter-day Saints. They talk about their journey to love and accept all of Heavenly Father’s children as taught by Christ. Madi also bravely shares her journey as a bisexual Latter-day Saint coming out to her husband during the first year of their marriage and how this has brought them closer together. It’s a deeply touching story of honesty, vulnerability, and real communication resulting in a healthy marriage with a strong foundation. This podcast will be very helpful for couples where one member is LGBTQ and for all of us to better understand couples walking this road. Thanks you Madi and Miles for sharing your story. I will never forget the visual of your holding hands and lovingly looking into each other’s eyes during the podcast. You two are living a beautiful love story and have a great life ahead of you! On behalf of all of our listeners, thank you for sharing your story.
Dale and Unhui Larsen, who have been married 42 years, have 4 children and 11 grandchildren, share their story. It is a love story. It’s a story of personal revelation. It starts with Dale and Unhui falling in love, starting a family and then Dale shares how he almost left that marriage and two little kids but receiving personal revelation to stay. Over the next 25 years, Dale and Unhui raised their family and served in the Church. When Dale’s Stake Presidency assignment ended in 2009 after the normal length of service, he felt impressed to address and resolve being gay. They jointly worked to receive ‘more light and understanding’ and share this journey. Many of their answers were received by personal revelation and Temple attendance. They also share helpful interactions with their Stake President and a brief visit with Elder Cook of the Twelve.
In 2012 Dale bravely came out as gay to his Stake as part of a 10 Stake LGBTQ training. Unhui shares personal revelation into why they are walking this road together as part of Heavenly Father’s plan. Dale shares how the ‘last piece of shame’ left him with the personal revelation he recently received on why his is Gay and how this is part of Heavenly Father’s plan. You can read more of Dale’s story at https://www.facebook.com/dale.larsen.12/posts/2343976465633848 and a tribute to his good wife Unhui at https://www.facebook.com/dale.larsen.12/posts/2344890708875757
This is a deeply moving and helpful podcast for everyone. Thank you Dale and Unhui for sharing your journey. You two are awesome. Your story will give hope and helpful insights for our LGBTQ members and those who want to support, love and see their goodness.
My friends Tekulve and James share their journey as Black Latter-day Saints. We start with Tekulve sharing his recent experience as a Payson Temple worker where we was released (and then reinstated) because of his hair style (locs). Tekulve and James felt impressed to share this story as an important ‘inflection point’ where we can look inward as a people to see how we can do better with this FB post that went viral https://www.facebook.com/james.c.jones.31/posts/10105074268611999. They share how they process our prior teachings about Black Latter-day Saints and their feelings of racism and imperfections of Church Leaders. They can talk about these subjects as deeply faithful and committed Latter-day Saints as they developed the ability to see the different between doctrine and culture and create space/perspective for imperfect leaders. They also have great spiritual maturity because of the need to develop a deep personal relationship with Heavenly Father and not always rely on the Institutional Church to provides answers to every question. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast to better understand our Black Latter-day Saints. The difficult road they walk and their unique gifts and contributions. Thank you Tekulve and James for being on the podcast. You two are great men, wonderful disciples, and needed members in our Restored Church. We need you to become the Church God wants us to become.
My friend Megan Lagerberg bravely shares her journey with infertility. It’s a difficult road emotionally, physically, and financially. Megan shares how she and her husband Todd have navigated a road of various unsuccessful treatments and their eventual success with IVF. After 3 years of treatments, they finally had a daughter (they now have two daughters). Megan shares her journey of feeling broken, depressed and attending church while working to overcome being angry with Heavenly Father. Megan’s story can help all of us overcome difficult things that are not our fault and tell us how to move forward in faith and hope.”
My friend David Doyle calls in from the Tampa Florida area to share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. It a beautiful and sometimes difficult story. David talks about the years before his mission, the years after his mission until age 40, and then coming out to his Ward/Stake leadership and family. David shares some of the wonderful things his Stake President has done to help LGBTQ members feel welcome. David also shares his positive interaction Elder Joaquin E. Costa (see https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/159164583009/so-do-you-remember-the-guy-in-yesterdays-general)
David is one of my new heroes for all his is doing to Come Unto Christ and navigate a very difficult road. David has very helpful insights that will give our LGBTQ members hope and help all of us better minister to our LGBTQ members. At 1:17 David has some helpful insights into Temple Recommend Question #7.
Thanks for sharing your journey David. You are a great man and I’m glad to have you on the podcast.
My friend Maggie Slighte (in her early 50’s) shares some of her life story growing up having been sexually abused at a very young age. About 6 years ago, Maggie found and joined the Church which has brought her great spiritual healing. She is now has a calling as a Temple and Family History consultant in her Ward. Maggie shares her journey with ‘complex PTSD’ including the therapy she continues to receive. She also talks about doing starting to do Temple work for her abuser (who has passed away). You can read more about Maggie at sistermaggie.com and maggieslighte.com. You are awesome Maggie. You are a hero to me for surviving a brutal road and being willing to share your life experiences which helps us follow your example to heal and find hope. Thanks for being on the podcast.
My friend Kelleen Potter shares her journey of her oldest son coming out as gay at age 14 (about 8 years ago) and her third child coming out as transgender who identifies as female (about 4 years ago). Kelleen also has a son on a LDS mission and two younger daughters. Kelleen shares finding resources, therapists (including Lisa Hansen) and community with Mama Dragons. Kelleen talks about why both of her LGBT children have stepped away from the Church and why she is at peace with that decision.
Kelleen shares the story of the Heber City Pride flags (https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900074800/lgbt-pride-flags-heber-city-utah-spark-controversy-support.html) and how she feels that has helped her community. Thank you Allison Belnap for your efforts. We also discuss Ben Schilaty’s latest blog post (https://benschilaty.blogspot.com/2019/07/pride-is-opposite-of-shame.html) about the importance of Pride Month. It think it is important to listen to our LGBTQ friends on why Pride Month is needed.
Thank you for being on the podcast, Kelleen. You are awesome and you are doing great work.
My friend Briant Carter bravely shares his story as a gay Latter-day Saint who has been navigating this road for approximately 50 years. Briant, who has served in Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies, has only recently been able to set aside the shame for being gay including feelings of not being equal, broken, and less worthy. He now knows how to love himself and see himself as a wonderful son of Heavenly Parents. It’s a remarkable journey. Briant’s story will be helpful for our younger LGBTQ members to feel at peace with their sexual orientation and to stay close with our Heavenly Parents as they make their way forward. I was also struck with the good men in Briant’s life that asked him to serve creating a sense of belonging that we all need and receiving a Priesthood Blessing from his Elder Quorum President in preparation for this podcast. You are a great man Briant. I felt a wonderful spirit as you shared your story. Thanks for your goodness, value, worth and courage to share some of your journey with us.
My friend Kurt Nielsen calls in from Yorba Linda California to bravely share his story as a gay Latter-day Saint. Kurt has come out to his dear wife Mary, three children and some trusted friends. Kurt has been following deep impressions his whole life and now feels called to share his story more broadly.
Kurt shares his journey as a gay man growing up in Northern Utah, serving a mission, getting married and having a family. Unlike our younger LGBTQ members who have some support networks, Kurt really had very little (until the last few years) causing him to develop a deep relationship with Heavenly Father and the subsequent personal revelation he received.
Listening to Kurt’s story will help our LGBTQ members (especially from the perspective of someone who had been on this road for several decades), families with LGBTQ members, and local leaders looking to minister to our LGBTQ members. Kurt tells the story of helping his own Stake President to see how this issue needed to be addressed and then it subsequently was with an excellent talk from his Stake President in Stake Conference where he asked members of the congregation to raise their hand if they had an LGBTQ person in their life (almost all hands were raised). Yes, this is a topic that affects all Latter-day Saints. Kurt talks about the wonderful work being done in the neighboring Long Beach East Stake.
Thank you for joining us on the podcast and having the courage to share your story. You are a great man. Thank you for helping me be a better disciple of Christ.
My friend Heidi Tucker shares her story of having her world rocked when her wonderful son Austin come home from his mission early. Heidi had to go deep with Heavenly Father and the Savior to deal and come to peace with this difficult situation. This journey led to personal revelation to write a book called ‘Finding Hope in the Journey.’ Heidi’s book is designed to give hope when difficult things happen in our lives of which many are outside of our control. She shares principles and perspectives to give us all better tools.
Heidi is now a frequent speaker at LDS events (over 100 events) and has written a second book called ‘Servie’s Song.’ Heidi’s books can be found at Deseret Book, Amazon or at her website https://www.thepickledsunflower.com/. You can also reach Heidi through this website.
Thank you Heidi for bravely sharing some of your family story. The principals and perspective you teach as part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ are helping all of us have more hope, perspective and healing. Thanks for being on the podcast and all your great work!
My former missionary companion shares the story of his people, the Northwest Band of the Shoshone Nation. This group of Native Americans lived in Utah when Brigham Young arrived and their tribal leader Sagwitch visited with Brigham Young. This group helped the first Mormon settlers in the Cache valley but then most of their tribe was massacred in the Bear River Massacre in 1863. This was the largest massacre of Native Americans in history (around 400-450). Sagwitch later converted to the LDS Church.
Darren’s mission is to bring voice to his people. The good they did. The injustices they received. How they converted to the LDS Church. Darren has been working with LDS Church leaders (close friendship with Bishop Causse) and Utah Government Leaders (Governor Herbert and Lt Governor Cox) to raise funds for a permanent facility at the site of the massacre. You can learn more at or donate at https://boaogoi.org/ Here is a recent article from the Deseret News: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900031109/shoshone-nation-hopes-new-center-at-massacre-site-draws-sacred-feeling.html
Thanks Darren for being an awesome senior companion in England in 1980 and, more importantly, the wonderful work you are doing for your people.
My friend Jana Spangler, married mother of 3, talks about how to understand and minister to those in a faith transition and in a mix-faith marriage. Jana also talks about Fowler’s stages of faith a framework to help all of us better understand our differences and create common group.
Jana, a Life Coach, shared these insights recently at North Star (a LDS LGBTQ support organization) and a Ward fireside.
This will be a very helpful podcast for those looking for added insights and tools to minister to those in a faith crisis or transition, those in a faith transition and those who find themselves in a mixed-faith marriage. Jana can be reached at https://www.symmetrysols.com/jana-spangler
Thanks for being on the podcast Jana. Your work brings more understanding and helps keeps us together. You are awesome.
My friend Adam Durfee talks about his career in digital marketing including starting a digital ad agency, being named social media innovator of the year, and leaving his agency to teach at BYU to help students be better digital marketers. Adam also advises the Church on its digital marketing efforts. Yes, Adam (married) is a Professor at BYU at the age of 30.
But most of the podcast is Adam sharing insights into our LGBTQ siblings, bringing voice to our talented women (his favorite topic), and his insights into the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Adam talks about how he creates an accepting culture in his class and on social media so that students (including those not in his class) know they can open up about difficult issues they are confronting. Thank you Adam for sharing some of your insights. You are a rare combination of great business skills and strong pastoral skills helping to lift so many. Thanks for being on the podcast. You can find Adam on Twitter, IG and Facebook @AdamDurfee
Episode 142: Nelson Lee, Active LDS, RM, Solving OCD, Anxiety and Depression by Richard Ostler
My friends Allan and Kattie Mount share their journey of both being active LDS (both Barcelona Spain RMs) and then in Allan have a faith transition in 2017 that led him out of the church. In spite of his best efforts and wonder local leaders, Allan is no longer able to believe. Allan and Katie bravely share how they are navigating this space. Allan no longer attends on Sunday, but helps gets the kids ready for Church and participates with his EQ in service projects as he loves his church community. He is not trying to draw others out of the Church. Kattie serves at the Ward Primary President.
Allan and Kattie started a podcast called ‘Marriage on a Tight Rope’ focused on mixed-faith marriages and how to keep those marriages together. See https://marriageonatightrope.org/about/ for more information.
Thanks for being on the podcast Allan and Kattie. You two are awesome and doing a much needed work to keep families together.
My friend Roxanne Kennedy bravely shares her story of a 20 year marriage to a pornography addict (the marriage ended about 4 years ago). It’s a deeply touching story of how she turned to Heavenly Father for guidance and the atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and give hope. Showing great courage, vulnerability and acting on Heavenly Father’s impressions, she wrote a book called “Cutting Ties. Healing from Betrayal Trauma as the Spouse of an Addict.” See her web site to order the book and more info: http://cuttingties.com/
As a former single ward Bishop who conducted 100s of interviews about porn, I wish I had heard from Roxanne before I was called to have better principals, spiritual insights and role of experts to help my ward members. I encourage parents of children, local leaders, spouses and people working to solve porn to listen to this podcast and read her book. I promise it will increase your insights and give you better tools to help people in this space.
Thank you Roxanne for your courage to share your journey and insights. You are one of the most remarkable persons I have ever met. You voice is helping so many.
My dear friends Ken, Sue and Hank Hansen share their family story. Ken and Sue (a convert) have served the Church their whole lives outside of Utah (Illinois, Connecticut and New York). They talk about making their Wards loving and inclusive. Ken and Sue talk about the pain of the November 2015 Policy Statements and how that almost broke their testimonies but how they remain committed members. Ken and Sue now live in Utah and share the differences in Ward culture.
Ken, Sue and Hank share the story of Hank coming out as gay at age 16 (a student at the University of Utah) and how they are navigating that road with Hank stepping away from active church attendance. They share principals to keep the family circle together even with different feelings about our Restored Church. Instead of ignoring these complex topics, there is open communication and discussion helping to create real connection and deeply family ties. There are no ‘elephants in the room’ at the Hansen home.
Thanks to all three of you for being on the podcast. This podcast will be particularly helpful for active LDS parents who have adult children who have stepped away. Each of you are remarkable, thoughtful and deeply spiritual. Honored to have you on the podcast!
My friends Willy and Kristy Donahoo, who don’t have any immediate LGBTQ family members, share their story of becoming LGBTQ allies. It started with Willy’s talk in Church (Sept 2015) about owning the ‘visitors welcome’ message at our buildings when he mentioned the need to welcome our gay friends. Willy and Kristy then connected with Encircle (they serve on their advisory board). They talk about the need to proactively ‘act’ to be accepting versus a passive statement of acceptance.
In April 2019 Willy and Kristy, wanting to act, purchased 60 pride flags for their neighborhood in Sandy, Utah. They share the remarkable story of encouraging their neighbors (thru social media, letter writing and door-to-door visits) to consider displaying a flag until all 60 flags were claimed and displayed starting on May 27th. Click here for a copy of their letter: https://www.dropbox.com/s/030qh99n2js98sr/Pride%202019%20Neighborhood%20Flag%20Letter%20FINAL_Redacted.pdf?dl=0 and the Mr. Rogers quote: https://www.dropbox.com/s/68tw2n80o077t2d/Mr.%20Rodgers%20Unique.pdf?dl=0 It’s a really cool story.
This resulted in Mama Dragons, a group of mothers of LGBTQ children, posting a picture and story on Facebook about the flags https://www.facebook.com/mamadragons/posts/2265960243502364 that went viral including KSL running a story https://www.ksl.com/article/46565141/each-person-is-accepted-unconditionally-sandy-neighborhood-lines-streets-with-rainbow-flags-for-pride-week .But what happened once the flags were up in their neighborhood is the real story. Willy and Kristy share some of these deeply touching and healing stories that occurred as these much needed conversations finally happened. Several of these brought tears to my eyes and hearts were healed and authentic connections made.
Willy and Kristy invite you to consider doing this in your neighborhood next year. Thanks Willy and Kristy for being on the podcast and your discipleship. You two are awesome.
My good friend Amelia Hepworth (age 22 and in a serious relationship with her friend Greg) calls in from Kansas City, Kansas to bravely share some of her story. Amelia has bravely dealt with and mostly solved her eating disorder (anorexia) including a deeply spiritual experience at the Kansas City Temple giving her the courage to seek treatment. Amelia talks about how her eating disorder is not a sign of weakness or spiritual deficit, but a mental illness that needs clinically trained people to help solve.
Amelia also talks about being a bi-sexual Latter-day Saint and opening up to Greg before they even started dating. She talks about her close relationship with Greg and their hopes for the future. You are a wonderful and courageous woman, Amelia. I was so touched by your courage, strength and faith. Thanks for being on the podcast!
My friends Ian and Gareth Calk (brothers) share the journey as Latter-day Saints navigating their faith. Ian has gone through a faith crisis and is currently active LDS. Gareth has stepped away. While neither brother is inviting others to follow their path, I believe it is helpful to hear their story so we can better understand why some of our members step away giving us better insights to minister to them. I believe the Good Shepherd knows His sheep well enough to know why one left and where to find them. Yes, I think this increases the chances someone will return if the person ministering to them understand the full story behind their journey.
Ian explains what a faith crisis is like in this article: https://iancalk.blogspot.com/2019/06/understanding-crisis-of-faith-for-those.html
Ian co-founded (with his friends Jenn Mack and Andrew Sturgess) RISE, an LDS LGBTQ support group in Atlanta. https://www.facebook.com/Rise-Atlanta-LGBT-Mormons-and-Allies-162728337716159/ Ian has spent countless hours getting to know our LGBTQ friends through private interviews which has been transforming to him. RISE meets every other month in a different LDS member home in the Atlanta area usually hearing from one of our LDS LGBTQ members.
Thank you Ian and Gareth for sharing your journey. Honored to have you on the podcast. You two are great friends.
My friend Kurt Francom, married father of 2, former Bishop and Stake Presidency member, joins me to share insights into effective local leadership. In 2010 Kurt founded Leading Saints (https://leadingsaints.org/) a non-profit to provide additional tools for local leaders including podcasts and virtual summits. This list of guests is impressive (Anthony Sweet, Tom Christofferson, Patrick Mason, Bruce and Marie Hafen and my brother Dave Ostler). The tag line of Leading Saints is ‘Be a Leader, Not a Calling’.
Kurt has great insights into ministering to those who have a more difficult road to stay active Latter-day Saints. I learned so much from Kurt’s insights. Thank you Kurt for your wonderful ministry to help people come unto Christ through our Restored Church
Our family friend Matt Easton shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Matt came out as gay during his BYU Valedictorian Speech at BYU for the College of Family, Home, and Social Sciences. Since that speech on April 29th, Matt has been features in thousands of stories and done hundreds of interviews including appearing on the Ellen DeGeneres show on May 6th. We are honored to call Matt a close family friend particularly our daughter Emily who is a fellow BYU Student.
Glad to have you on the podcast Matt to share a longer version of your story. You give hope to so many. You are a great man, friend, and have a wonderful future!
My friends Dallon Smith and Taylor Winget share their journey serving missions (Chile and Argentina, respectively), coming out as gay, graduating from college (Utah State and BYU respectively), starting to date, now getting married (Aug 2019) and continuing to attend church as best they can.
They were featured by ABC4 last April https://www.abc4.com/…/same-sex-couple-choosing-…/1903886065.
Dallon and Taylor share how their active and wonderful LDS families are supporting them in their upcoming marriage to keep the family circle together in love, support and understanding.
In sharing their story, I am not inviting anyone to follow a path outside the doctrine of our church. I invite everyone to stay. However, I feel it is important to humanize stories of those who choose to different road so we can keep the family circle together and show support as each LGBTQ person decides their best path as they move forward. This podcast may also be helpful for LDS parents who have a child going into a same-sex marriage and how to navigate this road.
Thanks for being on the podcast Dallon and Taylor! You two are great and I look forward to your future and the wonderful contributions you two will make in society.
Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ listenlearnandlove.org papaostler.com
My friend Kate Toronto joins us to talk about stepping into the space of active LDS and understanding/supporting our LGBTQ friends when she felt impressed to do her thesis on this subject as part of earning a Master’s Degree in Psychology in Education from Columbia University in New York. As part of her thesis, she conducted research with 450 LGBTQ Latter-day Saints (mix of active/not active). She shares her findings, conclusions and pastoral implications for our LDS LGBTQ members. Kate successfully defended her dissertation and graduates in late May 2019.
Kate has unique and fresh insights into the difficult road our LGBTQ friends walk and things we can do to minister to them and lighted their road. I was deeply moved by Kate’s insights and her good heart and have more hope that we are moving in the right direction to both lift the burdens of our LGBTQ members and embrace their contributions to help us become the Body of Christ.
My friend Clare Marshall calls in from Warrington, England (one of my mission areas) to share her journey as an active Latter-day Saint and supporter of our LGBTQ+ friends. Clare, a life-long member in her 20’s, talks about a transgender ward member and her friendship with a transgender man during her youth, her mission in Frankfurt Germany, returning from her mission to study a masters in MSc Art Psychotherapy and final completing her dissertation and training year at a LGBT Health Centre before taking on a full time role at LGBT Foundation located in Manchester, England.
Clare helps us understand how following the Gospel of Jesus Christ encourages us to reach out to those who have a more difficult road in mortality like our LGBTQ+ friends and how we can help lift their burdens. Clare shares helpful insights to our transgender and non-binary friends. Thank you Clare for being on the podcast. You are awesome and doing a great work!
My friend Brett Hales shares his life story of growing in Magna, serving a mission in Alaska, marrying Cindy Ulrich (37 years ago), raising 5 kids (all married with 7 grandchildren), serving as a Bishop (sharing very tender stories involving priesthood blessings), being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis and serving on the Murray City Council. Brett also shares his thoughts about our LGBTQ friends and people of other faiths and seeing the goodness in everyone.
My friend David Daniels bravely shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint knowing he was gay in his teens, telling no one, serving a successful mission in Puerto Rico, marrying a woman which ended in divorce after 5 years, leaving the church for about 13 years and then returning in 2013 where he is an active member in good standing. It’s a brave and courageous story with a very supportive family.
Thank you David for sharing your story. You are a great man with a wonderful life ahead of you!
My friend Tember Harward shares his story growing up in California in a part member family but not going to church, becoming aware of his orientation in High School and then several years with same-sex partners and not connected to any religion. Tember that shares the journey home. Deeply spiritual experiences leading to his baptism into the Church (by his father), serving a mission, becoming a Temple worker, believing he would be alone, but then falling in love with his wife Tefany and the joy of being a father. Thank you Tember for sharing your story. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
My friend Nathan Winters, a committed Latter-day Saint, shares the difficult road of being an early release missionary. Nathan has been brutally stretched with things outside of his control and has turned to his Heavenly Father and the healing power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It’s a remarkable story of courage, faith and navigating complicated territory. Nathan has a very supportive family and wonderful Mission President. I believe the unique lessons that Nathan is learning will help him become the man, future husband and father, and disciple of Christ that God needs him to become. He will have a unique ability to reach and help others.
Nathan shares great insights on how to minister to our early release missionaries on the podcast and here: https://medium.com/@najwinters/what-early-returned-missionaries-want-you-to-know-b9ef9ef80e83 and his homecoming talk here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ixq132vfscemh9/Nathan%27s%20Homecoming%20Talk.pdf?dl=0
Thanks for sharing some of your journey, Nathan. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
Episode 126: Kyle Manwaring, Gay Latter-day Saint, Recent BYU Graduation, RM by Richard Ostler
My friend Erik Kokkonen shares his journey growing up in Hawaii, knowing he was gay in his teens, coming out to parents and his Bishop, serving a mission in New York, Med School in Hawaii, Residency in Springfield Illinois (with a wonderful Stake President) and then starting his dermatology practice in Salem Oregon. Erik has never stepped away from the Church (it has been very difficult at times) and has never (until recently) talked openly about being gay.
However, that all changed in his Oregon Ward as Erik listened to Brother Eric Huntsman’s BYU Devotional (Aug 2018 https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/eric-d-huntsman_hard-sayings-and-safe-spaces-making-room-for-both-struggle-and-faith/) and heard kind things said about LGBTQ people and read Tom Christofferson’s book https://deseretbook.com/p/cd-that-we-may-be-one?gclid=&variant_id=155907-paperback.
Erik sent the talk to his Bishop who ended up using it as an EQ lesson. Erik then came out to his whole EQ during the lesson and felt love, understanding and support. Erik later come out to his whole ward during a sacrament meeting talk and has recently been called into the Elder Quorum Presidency.
Thank you Erik for sharing your story. You are a great man, doing wonderful things and are changing hearts. Honored to have you on the podcast.
My friends Adam and Kelly Sandberg share their story of difficult home lives growing up, meeting each other in Arizona when Kelly was single with 3 kids and in the adult entertainment industry and Adam in a heavy metal rock band, falling in love and getting married. The odds were stacked against them, but they have been married for 22 years and are doing great.
About 16 years ago, they went to visit the Christmas lights on the Mesa Temple Grounds and Adam describes a deeply spiritual experience which opened the door for their baptism into the Church. They have been sealed as a family and are active Temple attenders. They talk about their love for the church but also how the culture at times has been difficult for them. Adam and Kelly share the stories behind several of their tattoos.
They also talk about their love of their LGBTQ friends and all they do to love, sit with, be friends and support them and how that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They talk about the church service project one of their daughters did for a drag queen show and talk about these good children or God.
I was deeply touched having you two on the podcast. You are a great couple doing wonderful things. Honored to call your friends.
My friend Nathan Smith shares his journey growing up in Texas, learning all the messy church history in his youth, working with FairMormon to answer questions, serving in the California Fresno Mission with Cathy and Larry Gelwix as his Mission President, not really ‘fitting in’ during his successful mission where he reached people no one else could reach, becoming less active because of ‘social alienation,’ and now starting to attend Church again.
Nathan wrote this post about his mission. It is helpful for me to read a post like this to help me understand how to help unique and needed members in our church feel they belong.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10215415221908778&id=1084156888
Nathan is a unique and needed member of the Church. He has a deep understanding of our doctrine, Christ, and world religions. His blog can be found at: nathansmithbooks.com and his twitter is at: @NateSmithSNF. One of the most helpful parts of the podcast is his great relationship with his Mission President Larry Gelwix. Instead of requiring Nathan to become a ‘round peg’ so he could fit in, he embraced and valued Nathan’s ‘square peg’ Christlike attributes and gifts and used them to personally be teachable and help others come unto Christ. I hope all of us can become the kind of leaders the Gelwix’s are for some many of our members.
Thanks for sharing your journey, Nathan. You are a great man with a wonderful future. I hope you find your way to stay in our Church. We need you. You can help us become the Body of Christ that we need to become.
My friend Sarah Kemp shares her journey coming out gay on her mission to her companion and Mission President (good experience), graduating from BYU, finishing medical school in Michigan, starting residency in Texas as part of her path to become a trauma surgeon. Sarah shares her personal revelation that her mortal mission as a gay child of Heavenly Parents is not to get married, and have children but use her divine gifts and attributes to bless others through her medical career. It is not plan B because getting married didn’t work out. It is plan A. She also shares her journey as a gay Latter-day Saint and how her love for the temple and the peace that she finds there help to keep her a fully believing and committed member.
Thank you Sarah for sharing some of your journey. You are awesome and have a great life ahead of you. Honored to have met you!
My friends Eric and Heidi Swapp bravely share the story of their dear son Cory who died by suicide at age 16 in 2015. Following his suicide, Heidi has stepped into the space of talking about suicide in an open, authentic and helpful way so that we can do better. Eric and Heidi have beautiful insights into how to help others. However, it is a brutal road to be parents of a child who has died this way as mortality will never be the same.
Turning to our Heavenly Father and our Savior, they share deep spiritual experiences that have given them hope, vision, perspective and healing. They are able to take these experience to bring hope and healing to many others. In their pain, they have an ability to help others. You two are awesome, have a wonderful family and are helping so many. Thanks for being on the podcast.
More about Cory can be found at https://www.heidiswapp.com/my-heart-corys-story/. Heidi can be reached at: https://www.heidiswapp.com/. Heidi’s podcast is at: http://elevatepodcasting.com/light_the_fight/
My dear friend Lee Liston shares his journey serving a mission in the Philippines, returning home and being in our YSA Ward, his journey as a little person including being on the TLC TV show My Little Life (https://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/my-little-life/), commitment to personal fitness (/www.instagram.com/lee_liston), and why staying active in the Church has been difficult. I put on my former ‘YSA Bishop Hat’ and gently offer up some suggestions to Lee to consider to possibly return to full activity and some thoughts about his future. It’s a vulnerable, honest and real podcast. Lee is also part of this FB post about labels that was picked up by LDS Living for a story https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10214214874518955 Thank you Lee for the chance to catch up and for sharing some of your journey. You are a great man and friend. Love you, brother.
My friend Vance Bryce shares his journey growing up in The Gila Valley Arizona, serving a mission, opening up to his Mission President about being a victim of sexual abuse, coming out as gay which Vance teaches is not a result of his abuse, finishing college at BYU, staying active LDS, wonderful family, and great insights into life as a gay Latter-day Saint.
Vance has taught me to much about the road our LGBTQ friends walk, how to lift their burdens, and great insights into the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Vance shares some of his favorite scriptures included D&C 93:1 and Isaiah 56. Thanks for being on the podcast Vance. You are a great man and friend.
My dear friend Bob Verstege (in his early 60’s) shares his remarkable life story joining the church at age 14, serving a mission in Chicago, breaking off an engagement to a women knowing he is gay, finding his husband Jay (also a RM and a world renowned cardiologist) and spending 25 years together. Bob also shared the tender story of Jay dying from Alzheimer’s, caring for him all those years, being at his bedside during his passing and their close relationship with Heavenly Father. It’s a beautiful love story. After Jay died, Bob continued to feel impressions from Heavenly Father including to return to the Church where he is a member in good standing and serves as the Ward Clerk in his ward.
Bob wanted to add a few comments below that he had run out of time to say.
"Strength lies in differences, not in similarities." Stephen R. Covey
I want listeners to know this is my journey and path I took, it isn't a path or an example that people should emulate or feel that I'm dictating to others. I appreciate and respect everyone's journey. Though I'm a big advocate for the Church and the blessings that come along with it, I do realize there's paths that are joyful, satisfying and spiritual without being a member. I'm grateful for anyone that receives love, joy and peace through other avenues.
Another point I would like to make is when you listen to the podcast, I would have you focus on the teachings of Christ, because that is who I tried to emulate and the others who were involved tried to emulate Christ's teachings as well - we tried to show empathy, charity and love for each other. One of my favorite scriptures is 2 Nephi 32:3.
Lastly, I brief recognition for some others; my former bishop in Linwood, Bishop Darrin Bird, a great servant of the Lord. The wonderful brothers and sisters of Fountain Hills and Linwood wards, who support and love me.
Then a special appreciation for two cherished friends, Brother Jorgensen and Brother Dean. They became my first friends as I return to the church. Each of them loved, supported and encouraged me. Even though they had no stewardship over me, and they personally don't understand my story, they allowed me to share with them without their judgement. I look at them as an example of faithful members of the church who inspire me to do better, much love to them both.
"Love is the security for which children weep, the yearning of youth, the adhesive that binds marriage, and the lubricant that prevents devastating friction in the home; it is the peace of old age, the sunlight of hope shining through death...Love, like faith, is a gift of God. It is also the most enduring and most powerful virtue." Gordon B. Hinckley
Thank you Bob for sharing your journey. It brings honor to your good husband Jay and helps us better understand a loving Heavenly Father.
My friends Eric and Liz Macdonald share their family story of their son Matthew coming out as gay following his mission in Mexico, navigating that road with he was at BYU, their personal revelation that Eric and Liz received as they stayed close to Heavenly Father to get direction on how to love and support their son. It is a very tender and powerful story. They also talk about the difficult road our LDS LGBTQ members and principals that apply if one steps away to keep the family circle together.
They also talk about their positive interactions with their ward, local leaders and a visiting authority during a recent Stake Conference. I encourage parents and local leaders to listen to their story to get better ministerial insights. Thanks for sharing your story. You are all awesome.
My friends Bryce and Sara Cook share their journey of having their oldest son Trevor come out as gay in 2011, learning all they could about how to parent a gay child, helping to organize All Arizona (www.allarizona.org) to provide support for families with LGBTQ members and broadly sharing their story to help others. Later their youngest son Tanner also came out as gay.
Bryce and Sara share their deep spiritual journey to understand how best to support their sons and keep the family together. Bryce also talks about spiritual prompting to write an essay on his thoughts and observations on our LGBTQ members (www.mormonlgbtquestions.com). It’s a deeply touching story.
Bryce and Sara were some of the earliest Latter-Day Saints I connected with as I wanted to learn more about this space and felt listening to parents stories would help me. Thank you Bryce and Sara for sharing your journey with your wonderful gay sons Trevor and Tanner.
My friend Dr. Julie Hanks, married mother of 4 and 2 grandchildren, brings decades of clinical therapy expertise and first-hand experience to share insights to better understand and minister to those with a fixed-faith marriage and those in a faith crisis. Julie also has great insights into how women feel in our church and how to improve their overall experience. I encourage everyone to listen to this podcast for better insights on how to bear, mourn and comfort helping us all better come unto Christ.
Everyone’s friend Al Carraway shares her journey to join the Church, strong testimony of the Book of Mormon, moving to Utah, work thru difficult challenges, becoming the author of the best-selling book “More Than the Tattooed Mormon”, and “Cheers to Eternity”, getting married to her best friend Ben, and pointing everyone to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Check out her website for more info https://alcarraway.com/ Thank you for coming on the podcast Sister Carraway. You are awesome. Thanks for bringing hope and healing to everyone.
My friends Mark and Emily share their family story raising 5 sons including their 16 year old son Samuel who is gay. They share the story of Samuel coming out as gay, the difficult road he is on (including being bullied), and personal revelation regarding their wonderful son Samuel. Emily talks about the community she found at ‘I’ll Walk With You (LDS parent group with LGBTQ children https://www.facebook.com/groups/WalkWithYouLDSParentsOfLGBTQ/) and Mark shares the talk he gave in Church in early 2019 about the doctrine of Christ and how it is applied to our LGBTQ family members (his talk is at https://www.facebook.com/emily.e.nelson.92/posts/10219436843341822)
Thank you Mark and Emily for sharing your story. It will help so many parents of LGBTQ family members know how to navigate this road using the doctrine of family and of Christ. You are all awesome.
Bryan (age 33, married with 3 kids) and Lawrence (age 60, father of 4 kids) share their family story with Lawrence coming out as gay in his 30’s, their marriage ending, Lawrence leaving the church and maintaining ties with his children. Bryan (age 10 when his father came out) talks about how their relationship has evolved over the past 20+ years and how they are close. Bryan (with a Masters in Film) produced a short film talking about their father and son relationship (see https://www.longhaulfilm.com/). It’s a wonderful story of keeping the family circle together.
My friend Ed shares a beautiful and unique story of courageously joining the church in Rhode Island after exploring multiple religions in 2008, serving mission in California in 2009 to 2011, attending Southern Virginia University, resigned from the Church in 2016, finding a wonderful partner (still together after 4 years), attending grad school at Emerson College, and now starting to attend his local LDS congregation because of his deep belief in the Church. It’s a unique story of Ed’s person revelation of his belief in both the Church and his relationship with his partner. Thank you Ed for sharing your story. It doesn’t fit into a nice-tidy box. But I love how you are doing the best you can to stay close and be guided by God. Honored to have you share your story!
My friend Zach Bloxham shares his journey coming home from a successful mission and then dealing with significant curveballs (divorce, not being accepted into Utah law schools, moving out of state to attend law school and being separated from his daughter). Zach later returned to Utah, remarried a wonderful woman and has another child, passed the bar and remains an active Latter-day Saint. Zach has great emotional and spiritual maturity wrestling with complex life events that is helpful or others navigating complex situations. He also has no shame for these difficult life events. I encourage everyone to follow Zach on Twitter (@zblox ) where he strikes a wonderful balance of standing for the teachings of our Restored Church and creating more understanding for those who are struggling to stay or have stepped away. I believe it is members like Zach that are helping more of our members find their spiritual home in our Church and reduce tensions both within the Church and with those who leave. Thanks Zach for sharing your journey. Respect. Appreciate your courage to be honest and vulnerable. I encourage everyone to listen to Zach’s podcast.
My friend Dennis shares his life story including life as a gay man (including appearances of Larry King Live and Sally Jessy Raphel), joining the Church in 2017, and now serving as the Ward Mission Leader and helping missionaries church wide on LGBTQ issues. Dennis’ book ‘Is He Nuts, Why a Gay Man Would Become a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ’ is being released by church book publisher Cedar Fort in August 2019. I encourage everyone to read his book (for more information go to www.DennisSchleicher.net).
Thank you Dennis for sharing your story. You are one of the most courageous persons I know. Thanks for blessing 1000s
My friend Bryan Young shares his journey losing a daughter to brain cancer after medical outcomes and priesthood blessings indicating she would survive. It is a faith promoting journey to wrestle with complicated circumstances to understand God’s plan and using the Temple and prayer to understand.
Bryan is a frequent fireside speaker and author of ‘Meant for Heaven, A Little Girl’s Journey to Paradise https://deseretbook.com/p/meant-for-heaven-a-little-girls-journey-to-paradise?variant_id=150506-paperback
Bryan’s story is very helpful when the hoped for outcome doesn’t occur which is part of our journey in mortality. Bryan also shares helpful insights about our LGBTQ brothers and sisters. Thank you, Bryan for being on the podcast. You story brought many tears to my eyes and increased understanding of the importance of coming unto Christ.
Lance and Tiffany Sweeten share their journey having their oldest child come out as transgender at age 16, navigating this road (new name, pronouns, seeing her leave the church and find a husband who they love as part of the family). Gwen talks about her gender dysphoria, difficult years and how much better she is emotionally now that she has come out and living her ‘truth’.
Lance and Tiffany share how church attendance increasingly become difficult and how they ‘had one step out the door’ until a critical conversation with their Bishop where he ‘just listened’. That was followed up with another meeting with their Bishop and Stake President where they ‘just listened’. The Stake President felt inspiration to have the Sweeten help the Stake with better tools to minister to its LGBTQ members. Lance and Tiffany were asked to share their experience and testimony in the Stake Bishops Training. They were also asked to do the same in the Stake Leadership training for High Counselors and Auxiliary Presidents.
Lance & Tiffany were asked by their Bishop to lead and conduct the September 2018 5th Sunday lesson of Loving and Accepting God’s LGBTQ children (which included several other guest speakers including their Bishop and Stake President). It was an amazing 2-hour experience. Finally, Lance & Tiffany were also asked to speak in the Adult session of Stake Conference and share their experiences.
Thanks to their loving Bishop and Stake President who “just listened”, they are no longer ‘one step out the door’ and stay fully committed members.
Lance & Tiffany continue to work with their Bishop & Stake President with finding ways to help LGBTQ members and families in their Ward and Stake.
My friend Craig Newsome shares a remarkable story growing up in New Zealand, gay, being part of several different religions, leaving all religion, dealing with drugs, alcohol, porn and sex partly as a way to escape and deal with all the pain, and then finding his way into our Restored Church. It is a remarkable story of God’s love for all his children and the truthfulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and its ability to heal and give hope. Craig is joined by Elder Alan Thacker who, along with his wife, served as senior missionaries and came to know and love Craig (who is out as gay to everyone in his Ward and Stake as is a needed and valued member).
Thank you for sharing your story Craig. It gives all of us more hope and better understanding. You are a great man.
Mikel tells the story of waking up one night and discovered his 16 year old son watching gay porn. If you are a parent, what would you do in that moment? If you were Joe, how would you feel knowing your Dad just found out this about you? Well, it is beautiful parental moment as Mikel and Wendy handled this situation with love which led to more family unity and understanding. Mikel and Joe share that experience as well as their family journey to come to terms with Joe being gay. Joe later come out to his entire early morning seminary class, served a mission and remains an active Latter-day Saint.
Joe shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint, his strong relationship with Heavenly Father, feels no shame for being gay, and his hopes for the future. Joe is one of the most spiritually mature and gifted men I have met. I often feel that the LGBTQ people I meet are some of Heavenly Father’s most valiant pre-mortal spirits and Joe is one of those spirits. Please listen to the podcast to learn gain wonderful parental insights and how a family grew and became closer by having a gay son.
My friend Tiffany shares the story of growing up in a home with a mother with mental illness (Dissociative identity disorder), bravely sharing this with her Mission President and his inspired response, writing a book called ‘Mother Had a Secret (https://deseretbook.com/p/mother-had-secret-tiffany-fletcher-75034?variant_id=24241-ebook) and now working on a shortfilm to bring more understanding to this topic (you can donate to the shortfilm at @SaltDance via Venmo). Tiffany, a frequent speaker on the Ward/Stake level and Women’s Conferences, has wonderful insights into the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and bring hope. Thank you for sharing some of your journey. You are awesome and your voice is helping so many.
My friend Tiffany shares the story of growing up in a home with a mother with mental illness (Dissociative identity disorder), bravely sharing this with her Mission President and his inspired response, writing a book called ‘Mother Had a Secret (https://deseretbook.com/p/mother-had-secret-tiffany-fletcher-75034?variant_id=24241-ebook) and now working on a shortfilm to bring more understanding to this topic (you can donate to the shortfilm at @SaltDance via Venmo). Tiffany, a frequent speaker on the Ward/Stake level and Women’s Conferences, has wonderful insights into the Atonement of Jesus Christ to heal and bring hope. Thank you for sharing some of your journey. You are awesome and your voice is helping so many.
I attended a LDS Family Service leadership training meeting about ministering to our LGBTQ members where Ben Schilaty was the speaker. I wish everyone in the Church could have attended this meeting. Ben joins us on the podcast (not in an official Church capacity) to share what he taught at this meeting and to answer the questions that were asked. I encourage all my LDS friends to listen to the podcast and encourage you to share it with your local leaders. You are a great man Ben. Thanks for your helpful insights for all of us to become better disciples of Christ.
My friend Williamson Sintyl shares his story of being trapped and freed in the Haiti earthquake, becoming a Latter-day Saint, serving a mission, getting married (Sharla and Williamson are expecting their second son), and dedicating his life to bringing hope and vision to the people of Haiti. To accomplish this, Williamson started Arise, Project for Humanity (see https://www.ariseprojectforhumanity.com).
Thank you for sharing your story, Williamson. You are a man of great courage and vision. It is someone like you that gives me hope for the future. You are making a huge difference for good in the lives of many and are a wonderful disciple of Christ.
My friend Jane Clayson Johnson shares her journey with clinical depression following a successful career as an American journalist at KSL-TV, ABC News, CBS News and now on the nationally syndicated NPR program On Point. Hers is a remarkable and brave story and is part of her new book published by Deseret Book called ‘Silent Souls Weeping’ (https://deseretbook.com/p/silent-souls-weeping-depression-sharing-stories-finding-hope?variant_id=168585-hardcover).
Jane shares the story behind writing the book and her goals to bring voice to others on this road, eliminate stigma around mental illness, overcome toxic perfectionism and bring hope to those who are suicidal. Jane offers guidance for families and local church congregations about how to talk about this mental illness so we can better help others.
I encourage everyone to listen to Jane’s story and insights and to read her book, Silent Souls Weeping so that we can better ‘mourn, bear and comfort’ our dear friends dealing with depression. Thank you Jane for sharing your journey and bringing voice to this important topic and hope to those living with depression. You are awesome!
My friend Kayden Carlos bravely shares his story of using/dealing drugs from age 12-18, feelings God’s hand and mercy in his life, finally ending this road because of a desire to serve a mission which happened with his call in 2014 to Baltimore, MD. Kayden shares about the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to save us and heal us. He bears testimony of a loving and merciful Heavenly Father. Kayden is joined by his wife Alexis who talks about why she married someone with such a difficult past and blessings, gifts and perspectives that are part of Kayden’s life that blesses their marriage and future family.
I first became aware of Kayden with this story from November 2016. Look at the joy in Kayden’s mom Julie with the return of her son. Thank you Kayden for sharing your story. You bring healing, hope and perspective to our listeners. You and Alexis have great lives ahead of you!
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865668341/Meet-a-former-heroin-addict-dealer-who-is-now-a-returned-LDS-missionary.html
My friend Arianna (Utah State University Graduate in degree in English) joins me to share her insights into the life of Christ and how to apply His teachings in our lives. I became aware of Arianna in January of 2018 with some of her insightful and thoughtful tweets (@AriWRees) about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you Arianna for joining us. It is people like you that give me hope in the future. You are remarkable and I’m glad you are a member of our Church. I think you will enjoy the podcast.
My friend Ryan Reese shares his journey to remain active LDS in spite of significant curveballs (near death sickness, a difficult mission experience, several difficult girlfriend breakups, and not really enjoying the culture of YSA Wards). Ryan is focusing on the things he can control such as his career, education (finishing up a MBA), fitness and his relationship with Heavenly Father. He is trying to leave the rest at the Savior feet with trust things will work out and believes one day he will walk hand-in-hand with his fiancée to his Temple marriage.
You are a good friend Ryan. Glad to have you on the podcast. You story will help many others.
My friend Charlie Bird gives an in-depth interview following coming out as gay in his Deseret News Op-ed (link below). He answers many questions such as why did he come out, why is coming out important, when did he know he was gay, how did his wonderful family react, LGBTQ resources at BYU, life as Cosmo, how can LDS members show support, and how does he balance being gay and being LDS.
I encourage all Latter-day Saints to listen to Charlie’s story to know how to better support our LDS LGBTQ members. Thank you Charlie for sharing your story. You are a great man with a depth of spiritual maturity and insights that is helpful for all of us to become better disciples of Christ. You have blessed 1000s and will continue to bless 1000s more. You a great life ahead of you!
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900057600/guest-opinion-everyone-loved-me-as-cosmo-the-cougar-but-would-they-love-who-i-was-behind-the-mask-byu-lgbt-gay.html
My friend Julie Lee, host of the podcast ‘I See You’, bravely tells her story of growing up in a family with mental illness, how this became part of her life, and how she has bravely confronted it. Julie is strong, courageous and remarkable. Her story (and the outreach she is doing) is helping so many others and giving them more hope, realistic expectations, and healing. Thank you Julie for sharing your story. It will help so many!
My friend Jenny Mathews shares the story of her father coming out as gay when she was 16 (and the oldest of 5), her parents’ marriage ending, seeing pain in both parents, staying close to both her wonderful mother and father.
In particular, Jenny talks about how she navigated her relationship with her father (who is now out of the church), how their relationship is now strong and stable, how her father is involved with her siblings and a wonderful grandfather to her children.
It’s a wonderful story of a family doing the best they can to keep the family circle together and see the good in everyone. Thank you Jenny for sharing this story. It will help so many!
Jackson, Connor and Zeke Richards (children of Royal and Elissa Richards/Episode 54) grew up in our Ward and are three outstanding men who have all served missions and doing great things in their lives. Jackson (age 29/med school) and Zeke (age 23/future med school) talk about how the family navigated their brother Connor (age 28/working toward Law School) coming out as gay, dating men and his same-sex marriage in Feb 2019 to Jan (finishing an undergraduate degree in psychology).
Jackson and Zeke share both their strong testimonies of the Church and their support of their brother Conner as he made his way forward in his life. It’s a beautiful story of using the Gospel as a framework for navigating this complicated space.
We’ve been in the same Ward for 20 years and our family (and so many others) are indebted to the Richards family for their example of service, goodness and lifting others. I think you will enjoy the podcast.
My friends Sarah and Jeff Case share their beautiful, healthy and wonderful marriage with our listeners. It is a beautiful love story. This podcast has foundational principals that will help all marriages. Thank you Sarah and Jeff for sharing your journey. You two are wonderful. For Jeff’s insights into better understanding suicide, please listen to episode 86.
My friend Gaven (a key member of our local High School baseball team) bravely shares the story of his wonderful mother Kathy’s passing and speaking at her funeral. His talk is remarkable. He honors Kathy, her good heart, her legacy and their family. He also talks directly to those with darkness ‘that feels our head’. He invites people to stay and shares how our ‘house is so, so cold’. He gives hope and perspective to those that are suicidal. Please stay one more day.
Gaven also shares how we are all just people and we need to see the potential of everyone. How we should not compare ourselves with others. How we need to learn to be vulnerable and confront pain so we can overcome it How we can overcome loneliness, anxiety and low self-worth. Thank you Gaven for sharing your insights, thoughts and perspective. You are wise beyond your years. You words lifted me and will do the same for our listeners. Thanks for being on the podcast.
Becky and Bennett Borden share their story of being active LDS, stepping away from the church and being in same-sex relationships, their lifelong friendship, having their respective same-sex relationships end, falling in love, being rebaptized on the same day and getting married.
Becky and Bennett have a wonderful marriage and are dear friends. The Bordens share helpful insights on the things they learned while away from the Church, how their LDS families helped and hindered during this time, why they decided to come back, how they fell in love, and helpful local leaders in those initial conversations as they considered returning. It’s a helpful podcast for our LGBTQ members, for others looking for betting insights on how to better minister, and the love of Heavenly Father for all His children.
Becky and Bennett also talk about North Star which is a wonderful organization helping our Latter-day Saint LGBTQ members, including dispelling myths about North Star. We encourage you to check out its upcoming conference on March 15-16 in SLC. See www.northstarlds.org/conference
Thank you Becky and Bennett. You two are awesome!
My friend Michael Birkeland (actor from Singles Ward, RM, Hometeachers), bravely shares his story into alcohol and drugs following his mission, feeling God’s love helping him come out of that dark world, a dear friend Nate Keller bringing Michael back to church and being rebaptized. Michael knows the ‘desert’ of drugs/alcohol and now that he is out of that desert, he has helpful and hopeful insights to lead others out of that desert. I deeply admire Michael’s willingness, vulnerability and courage to share his story as it will help so many. You are a great man Michael. Glad to call you friend.
My friend Kwaku, joined by his friend and fellow BYU student Sarah Wright, shares his remarkable journey to join the church in Houston, make his way to BYU, being involved with 3 Mormons (now called Saints Unscripted at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2LBmYIOq6Eu_ZC14i_YkIg), kind insights for our LGBTQ members, and hopes for the future. You are a great man Kwaku. You are helping many come unto Christ through our Restored Church.
My friend, Sunny, in her 40s, shares her journey to come out to her family as a gay/queer Latter-day Saint. As part of this process, Sunny has been working closely with her Stake Leadership in Idaho to develop a better and more inclusive culture for LDS LGBTQ members. What is happening is wonderful. Sunny also shares coming out to her children. Adam, age 18 and preparing for a mission, shares his thoughts on having a gay/queer mother and how their relationship is now stronger than ever. It’s a beautiful story of vulnerability, honesty, and coming closer together. I also believe these experiences will help Adam be an unusually effective missionary and help many come unto Christ. Thank you Sunny and Adam for bravely sharing your journey. You two are pioneers and your story will help many other families navigate this road.
My friend Jeff Case (married father of three) shares insights into why some people are suicidal and how to help them. Jeff talks about the three components of the Joiner model and how those apply to our LDS LGBTQ members. Jeff draws on his academic and clinical expertise (practicing full-time for the past 12 years) for very helpful and lifesaving insights. I encourage parents and local leaders to listen to this podcast. Thank your Jeff for sharing your expertise and insights.
My friend Jillyan Adams bravely shares her story coming out as gay at BYU, trying to date men, considering a road of celibacy, and eventually into a same-sex marriage. Neither Jillyan or I are inviting others down a path outside of the teaching of our Church, but I believe it is helpful to hear her story. Brigham Young taught: “I wish to urge upon the Saints … to understand men and women as they are, and not understand them as you are.’ Jillyan talks about her Latter-day Saint family navigated this road and attended the marriage. Yes Jillyan understands she can’t fully participate in the Church, but still attends family events and is supportive of her friends in the church. Thank you Jillyan for sharing your story. You have a good life ahead of you!
My friend Landon Larsen shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint growing up in Idaho, serving a mission, earning a degree from Boise State in construction management, going less active, recently returning to full activity concurrently with coming out more broadly to family and friends. Landon talks about how he is doing much better since coming out and have much more meaningful and healthier relationships with his family and friends. Thank you, Landon for sharing your journey. You are a great man, loved by many, and with a wonderful future. Respect.
My friend Devin Rios shares his journey as a queer Latter-day Saint. Devin talks about his decision to serve a mission, coming home after six months because of a belated confession, active in his ward, breaking the law of chastity resulting in being excommunicated, the love and support he felt during his disciplinary council, his continued love of the Church and close relationship to his family. Devin is keeping the door open to being re-baptized and having a temple marriage. Thanks for sharing story Devin. You are a very good man staying close to God who loves you.
My friend Brittney Collado shares her journey with chronic depression, her wonderful family and working to be at peace with this road. Brittney shares how some of the things said at church can be painful and add to her burden. Brittney loves our Church and shares helpful insights to lift the burden of those who are chronically depressed. More of Brittney’s story can be found at http://www.muchmorepreciousthangold.com/. Thank for your having the courage to share your story, Brittney. You are awesome and helping so many others. Respect.
Tanner shares his journey to want to understand the difficult road of our LGBTQ members, turning to FB to connect with our LGBTQ members, meeting Dallin Steele to learn from a gay Latter-day Saint. They share their great friendship and how Tanner has learned and gain so much respect from our LGBTQ members. Tanner (with Dallin’s help) produced a video from the Outcasted channel where Tanner talks about his road to better understand and our LGBTQ friends. Check out the video at: https://www.facebook.com/UsOutcasted/videos/370500233747718/.
These good men are showing us the future. Instead of separating ourselves from those that are different, we can find common ground following the example Jesus. And we learn that having people in our lives that are different helps us become a better disciple of Christ. Respect to both of you!
My friends Tina and Brandon Jenson share their journey with Brandon coming out 5 years ago as transgender after 14 years of marriage and how they are navigating that road, keeping their family together and staying active in the Church. It’s a brave and courageous story where they have both stretched to rely on personal revelation, clinic experts and each other. You can read more here: http://mytransmormonlife.blogspot.com. Thank you for sharing your story. You two are awesome!
My friend Brian Spittler shares his journey growing up as a bisexual Latter-day Saint of overcoming shame and coming out to his dear wife Ali, which strengthened their marriage. Brian is bravely sharing his story so others can understand the difficult road of our bisexual Latter-day Saint friends and be a voice of hope and healing for closeted bisexual members. Thank you Brian for sharing your story. I learned so much. You have my admiration love and respect. You and your wife are awesome. This is a beautiful love story.
My friend Will Edgel shares his journey being in a same-sex relationship, ending that relationship, returning to the Church, wonderful Priesthood leaders, serving a Mission, doing a voices of hope video (ldsvoicesofhope.org/voices/will/), having a strong relationship with our Savior, and eventually hopes to marry a woman and have a family. These experiences have organically led him to empower other people to explore and share their stories through his business called ELIX-Life stories (www.elixlifestories.com). Thank you Will for sharing your story as it will help so many. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
My friend Stacey Harkey shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint. Stacey came out in December 2018 with this FB post https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10104722886604359&id=17829724 that went viral and was followed up by an LDS Living Article. In the podcast Stacey shares his journey, personal revelation from God, coming out to close friends and family, helpful insights for our younger LDS LGBTQ members and hopes for the future. Stacey is strong and courageous. I am inspired by listening to his story. Thank you Stacey. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
My friend Rebecca Moore shares her career aspirations at NASA, a wonderful talk she gave about Fasting, insights into Rebekah from the Old Testament, and life as a bi-sexual Latter-day Saint.
Rebecca is strong, faithful, unique, courageous with wonderful insights about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is people like Rebecca that give me hope in the future of our Church and world. I think you will enjoy her podcast.
My friend Alex Boye shares his story of joining the Church while living in England, significant hardship, serving a mission, building a foundation on Christ, using his God-given musical gifts to bless others, his latest song and video called ‘Bend Not Break (https://youtu.be/0o1T_y81_DU) to give hope to those who are suicidal, and inspiring thoughts for our dear LGBTQ friends. Thanks Alex for your efforts to lift, give hope and heal others. May God continue to sustain you in your unique and wonderful ministry. We all love you!
My friend Matthew Wilkinson shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint coming to terms with his sexual orientation as a teenager growing up in England, serving a mission, his kind and loving Mission Presidents (Robert and Pat Preston), coming out to his wonderful parents and family members, graduating from BYU in Geospatial Intelligence, and his desire to be a University Professor. While Matthew has deep admiration for the Church and isn’t trying to pull people out of the Church, he shares why he is stepping away. I believe hearing Matthew’s story helps us come together to better love, support and minster to all of God’s children. Thanks for sharing your story, Matthew. You are a great man with a wonderful future.
My friend Daniele D’Apuzzo shares his journey of his girlfriend calling off their engagement leading to heartbreaking pain and deep reflection. Daniel wrote a book about this experience to share how he healed with gives hope to others (including our friends who are suicidal). I’ve read his book and it has great insights to heal from pain thru the love of God and the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Daniel’s book can be found at: https://www.amazon.com/Rising-Broken-Wings-Secure-Uncertainties-ebook/dp/B07JJZH7XT/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1546213364&sr=1-1 Daniel has a level of maturity and depth of insights well beyond his years. I believe you will enjoy this podcast and encourage you to read his book.
My friend John Gustav-Wrathall introduces us to Affirmation, a support organization of our LDS LGBTQ friends. I’m personally supportive of Affirmation and its mission to help our LDS LGBTQ friends. You can learn more about affirmation at https://affirmation.org/. You can also listen to John’s personal journey as a gay Latter-day Saint in Episode 49.
My friend Eric Huntsman talks about his new book ‘Becoming the Beloved Disciple: Coming unto Christ through the Gospel of John’ and his August 2017 BYU devotional ‘Hard Sayings and Safe Spaces: Making Room for Struggle as Well as Faith’, his love of Jesus, and our members. Many of my BYU Friends have mentioned how Brother Huntsman is bringing them closer to Christ and finding hope as they navigate complicated topics. I think you will enjoy the podcast
Episode 69: My Stake Conference Talk About Helping Our Dear Members in a Faith Crisis by Richard Ostler
My friend Stanley Alvey, my youngest guest yet, bravely shares his journey coming out to his parents Duke and Jessica Alvey at age 16. Their wonderful support. How coming out to his parents has strengthened their relationship and brought the whole family closer. Stanley shares his deep testimony of our Heavenly Father, the Savior and our Church. He also talks about the difficult road he faces trying to reconcile his love for the church and desire to stay a member in good standing and his sexual orientation. You are a strong and courageous man Stanley with a spiritual maturity well beyond your years. You have a great life ahead of you. Thanks for the courage to share some of your journey.
My dear friends Ricardo and Elizabeth Rosas share their journey in a mixed-orientation marriage. They first shared their story in late 2016 on the Church’s ‘Mormon and Gay Website’ at https://mormonandgay.lds.org/articles/ricardos-story and https://mormonandgay.lds.org/articles/elizabeths-story
It’s a beautiful story that can help all marriages grow stronger with principals of honestly, vulnerability, trust, common goals with a foundation in the Savior.
This podcast is particularly helpful for those in a mixed-orientation marriage with the goal of making those marriages be successful and for those looking to help those walking this road.
Thank you Ricardo and Elizabeth for sharing your story. You two are awesome!
My friend Sam Skidmore shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint coming to terms with his sexual orientation as a teenager, coming out to his Mission President, teaching at the MTC, coming out to others while at BYU, graduating in Psychology, desire to get a PHD in Counseling Psychology so he can teach at a University and also have a private practice for LGBTQ+ people. Sam also shares how he is at a crossroads as a gay Latter-day Saint and is having a hard time seeing how he can stay a single man his whole life. Thank you Sam for sharing your journey. Sam’s blog can be found at: samskidmore.blogspot.com
My friend Spencer Fluhman talks about the Maxwell Institute, how seeing good in other faiths helps us appreciate the restored truths in our Church, ministering to those in a faith crisis and helping thoughts for our LGBTQ Saints. Many of my BYU friends have mentioned to me the personal ministry of Brother Fluhman and how he is helping them navigate complicated topics. I think you will enjoy the podcast.
My friend Harper (along with her dear friend Sophie Huff) tell the story of her mission (successfully competed) having PTSD because of traumatic and difficult experiences on her mission. Harper bravely shares what happened, how she coped, the isolation and difficult feelings she felt, and how she managed to complete her mission. She also shares how she is coping with PTSD today and remaining a faithful member even with this difficult mission experience which was outside of her control. You are strong and courageous Harper. One of the bravest persons I’ve ever met. You story will help so many others address, deal with, and solve difficult church situations that are difficult through no fault of their own and how our Savior can heal us.
My dear friend Susan Hinckley shares her lifelong wrestle with our church and why she stays an active member. It’s a remarkable story. I believe Susan’s multi-decade journey to stay will help others (especially our younger members) know there are others on this path that have processed complicated issues and have found a way to authentically stay. Susan also talks about teaching Relief Society for the past 5 years, and her efforts to create a culture to process complicated topics in a faithful way. Thank you, Susan for sharing your story. You are awesome and helping many to Christ.
My friend Todd Sylvester shares his story overcoming addictions and plans for suicide following a successful basketball career (including taking State at Brighton High). He talks about how a great friend and Bishop who gave him hope and path to find Christ through our restored church. Todd, now married with 4 children and one grandchild, has spent his life helping other overcome addictions. If you want to feel hope and inspired, please listen to this podcast. Thank you Todd. You are a great man and friend. You are bringing hope and healing so many!
My friend Kim Pearson share his journey as a married father of three children one of which is his gay 18 year old son. Kim shares the journey of his son coming out at age 13, finding safe places for him (such as joining the Bridging Voices, The Portland GSA Youth Choir), and supporting him in his decision to not be an active Latter-day Saint. Kim is doing a great job keeping his family together and navigating this complex space in our Church. Thank you my friend Kim for sharing your story!
My long-time friend Jake Watts (married father of two young children) discusses his own faith journey following his mission and how he stays a believing and committed Latter-day Saint. Jake has wonderful insights into how to help our members in a faith crisis/journey in a positive and thoughtful way. His thoughts will also help those who are trying to help others in a faith journey. Jake also shares insights into how he and his wife are teaching the more complicated issues to their children. Thank you, Jake for sharing your story. Its great families like you and Chelsie that give me hope for the future!
Chuck shares the story of how he initiated and led the first ever community float project (that included people of all backgrounds) for the Days of ’47 Parade. Regina shares her perspective on how the float project gave the community a chance to build something beautiful together. After the Days of 47 Parade, both Chuck and Regina spoke in their local Ward about this community effort. They share their Christlike talks in our podcast. Thank you Chuck and Regina. You two are awesome!
Colin Hanson shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint coming out to friends following his successful mission in Brazil including his close friends from the 7th grade Travis and MacKenzie Tiner (married three years ago, active Latter-day Saints). The three of them share this journey together. Very helpful insights on how a friendship can be strengthened and how Travis and MacKenzie are providing much needed support to Colin and how Colin is now in a much healthier places as trusted friends know about his sexual orientation. Did Travis and MacKenzie always suspect that Colin was gay? Well, listen and find out! Thanks Colin for sharing your journey. You are a great man with a wonderful life ahead of you. Thank you Travis and MacKenzie for you love and support of Colin. You all give me hope on how we are learning to do a better job as Latter-day Saints supporting all of God’s children.
My good friend Dallin shares his journey coming out to family, friends and a FB post (April 2018 https://www.facebook.com/Pheonix123/posts/10215909544042280). He talks about staying close to Heavenly Father and getting personal revelation. He talks about the helpful things friends, family and two Bishops have done for him. He also gives us insights into our transgender friends. Thank you Dallin for sharing your story. You are a great man! Dallin’s blog can be found here:
Erika Munson, a straight married Latter-day Saint, shares her journey of marching in a Utah Pride parade in 2012 which led to founding of Mormons Building Bridges. Erika has great Christlike principals for active Latter-day Saints to step into this space of supporting God’s LGBTQ children. She also shares helpful insights about our LGBTQ friends. Thank you Erika for sharing your story. You are awesome!
Our family friend Jake Lee, a bridge builder, talks about respect for those in a different political party, empathy of our LGBTQ friends, his own emotional health and how that is helping him touch the cross of others, and concludes with his strong testimony of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thanks Jake for sharing your journey. You are a great man. Sister Ostler and I love you and your wonderful family.
Our dear family friends, Royal and Elissa Richards, share their family story of raising three great sons who all served missions and who are all married. Their middle son Conner is gay and was married earlier this year to his husband Jan.
Royal and Elissa will talk about how are navigating this road, supporting and loving their dear son Conner, keeping the family circle together and helpful Ward support (including some vulnerable and helpful Elder Quorum discussions, and a shower hosted by the RS President).
Their story helps all of us show Christlike principals to better love, support and respect others.
My friend, Jodie Palmer, is a mother, educator, coach, and bridge builder. She is also gay and in a mixed orientation marriage (MOM). Her passion is spreading empathy and dialogue as the universal guides to navigating conflict without losing connection. Thank you, Jodie, for sharing your journey, as well as helpful insights in navigating complex and difficult issues. You are wonderful and a beloved daughter of Heavenly Parents, and I’m glad to call you friend!
After 15 years of marriage, Brigit and Ann Pack share their story of Ann transitioning from male to female and why they have stayed married over the past 5 years since that transition. They have helpful insights for us to better understand, support and love God’s transgender children. Brigit is the Chair of the Board of North Star and Ann is involved in Affirmation. They introduce these organizations to help us understand how each organization helps our Latter-day Saint LGBTQ members.
My friend Austin Hodges share his story of knowing he was gay around age 12, coming out to friends, family and church leaders, being suicidal, serving a mission, being diagnosed with MS and coming home after a year, dating men including going through and finishing church discipline, holding a temple recommend, being suicidal including having a plan but being saved, having a new boyfriend where they are keeping the law of chastity so Austin can stay in full fellowship. Thank you Austin for sharing your story. You are a remarkable and courageous man.
My friend Brian Tipton share his story of knowing he was gay at age 11, coming out his sister, Bishop and family. Brian then shares stepping away from the church, dating men including two serious relationships, feeling impressed to return to the Church, the difficulty of ending a relationship, role of the Savior and the Book of Mormon, a loving Bishop, a loving family and now serving in the Temple. Thank you Brian for sharing your story. You are a remarkable and courageous man.
My friend John Gustav-Wrathall shares his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint who served a mission, resigned from the church, staying close to God, finding his husband, returning to church and staying in his same-sex marriage. Thank you John for sharing your story. You are a great man and honored to call you friend.
My friends Grayson and Neca (both Latter-day Saints) share their journey to comes to term with Grayson’s gender identity being male, affirming that gender and the road they shared together with Grayson’s social, legal and medical transition. Great podcast to learn more about our transgender friends and how to understand, respect and support them. Thank you Grayson and Neca for sharing your journey. You two are awesome.
My dear friend Vickie Walker tells the story of her husband Jeffrey being killed and 16 year old son injured in the Trolley Square 2007 shooting, starting Circle the Wagons (circle-the-wagons.org) for survivors to heal, having two gays RM sons who have both stepped away and have partners, supporting and serving God’s LGBTQ children and doing all this as a Latter-day Saint. Vickie is one of the bravest, most loving and Christlike people that I know. Thanks for sharing your story!
My friend Tarik LaCour shares his journey to join the restored Church of Jesus Christ and serve a mission in Alabama. Tarik shares how he processes the messy and complicated history of our church, imperfections of our inspired leaders, and how he maintains a strong testimony. He shares some of his favorite doctrines and why he is a committed member. It is people like Tarik that give me hope in the future of the Church and the world. Thank you, Tarik for sharing your story. You are a great man.
My friend Patrick Risk bravely shares his story as a survivor of sexual abuse as a child, confronting his perpetrator, healing and now helping so many others. Patrick gives hope and healing to other survivors and also has insights for everyone on how to support, understand and help victims of sexual abuse. You are a brave man, Patrick. Respect. You and your wife have a great life together! Patrick: You are a great man. You inspire me and inspire many others!
My friend Bryan Mortensen shares his journey leaving the MTC after 5 days, returning to serve a service mission, and then finishing his mission in the Texas Lubbock mission. Bryan has great insights for our early release missionaries, for family and local leaders to best support them and for all of us to better support those on the margins of our Church. Thank you Bryan for sharing your story as it is helping so many. You are a great man and are helping our Restored Church work for more of our members.
My dear friend Chad Curtis bravely shares his story of being an victim on a sexual assault before his mission, coming to terms with his sexual orientation after his mission, concluding his sexual orientation is not a result of the sexual assault, a loving and helpful Bishop, dating his future wife and jointly walking into a mixed-orientation marriage. Thank you Chad for sharing your story. I hope our listeners feel your courage, vulnerability and pure spirit. Your story helps all of us better understand.
My dear friend John Martinez shared his journey to join the Mormon church, processing Prop 8 as a new convert, falling in love, being inactive, almost resigning, receiving his Endowment and doing Temple work for relatives, and his hopes for the future. Thank you John for sharing your story. You are a great man.
My friend Jerry Chong shares his conversation story, coming out as gay, and the LGBTQ sensitivity training he does for the Stakes in Calgary, Canada. Thank you Jerry for sharing your journey so we can all better understand. You are awesome.
My dear friend Mormon Brother from twitter (https://twitter.com/SGAMormon) shares his journey as a gay active Mormon. Listening to this podcast and following him on twitter will help all of us better understand God’s LGBTQ children.
My dear friend Patrick Patterson shares he journey to join the Church in August of 2015 and come out as gay in April 2017. Patrick is an Elder in his Ward and serves as the Assistant Ward Mission Leader. Patrick is a remarkable man. I think you will enjoy hearing his story.
My friend Eric Kirby shares his journey to love, understand and support God’s LGBTQ children and how that is part of his Mormon beliefs. I became aware of Eric when I saw this Tweet on June 3, 2018 at the beginning of Pride Month https://twitter.com/ericmkirby/status/1003458251059417089. Eric helps us understand how active Mormons can show love, support and respect for God’s LGBTQ children. Please listen as Eric shares his journey.
Lisa Hansen, PhD, LMFT, is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and clinical director of Flourish Counseling Services, PLLC (with an office at Encircle). She has conducted approximately 4,000 LGBTQ therapy sessions. Lisa shares her insights and expertise on our transgender friends to help families, local leaders and our trans friends navigate this road. Thank you, Lisa! You are awesome!
My friend Taylor Christensen (active Mormon, RM, age 24) shares how he maintained his testimony in our Restored Church knowing all the complicated and messy topics in our history. I believe it is members like Taylor that are part of the future. Instead of avoiding these topics, Taylor has learned about and wrestled with these difficult topics. He maintains a strong testimony and can now ‘go there’ with others giving them vision and tools to stay. Taylor also has great empathy and understanding for those who step away. Thank you Taylor for sharing your story.
My friend Dexter Beach (from my home Stake) shared his journey as an early release missionary and shares how best to support these great members. Dexter talks about what questions to ask and what questions are less helpful. Dexter is one of the finest men I know and has a great life ahead of him. This podcast is based on his June 20, 2018 Facebook post that deeply touched me https://www.facebook.com/DexterTheStudBeach/posts/2478839285474915
My friend Gail, calling in from the Netherlands, shares valuable insights into how to help others dealing with suicide following decades of clinical visits and the suicide of her dear husband Jon after a life-time of mental illness.
Our close friends Doyle, Kathy and Chelsi Jenkins’ son and brother Riley died by suicide in 2010 at the age of 19. They share faith promoting lessons and insights about God’s love for all of us as they bravely share their family journey which helps all us of better minister and understand.
Sheila and I served with Doyle and Kathy in our YSA assignment and Chesli was a member of the Ward. We love and admire the Jenkins family ... one of the finest families we know .... and all they have taught us about love, family and Christlike service.
Active Mormon Millennial, Author, Temple Dress Store Founder, and former Model, Rosemary Card shares her Christlike insights and life experiences to help others. People like Rosie Card are the future of our Church and the World.
Honored to have my friend Jana Riess, noted author and Mormon convert, discuss her research findings on why some of our men, women and our millennials are leaving the church. It is part of her forthcoming book ‘The Next Mormons being released in March 2019 from Oxford University Press. To minister to those that might step away or have stepped away, we need to understand the reasons. Jana provides the research and helpful insight to reach, understand and minister. Thank you Jana for your important work.
Podcast focusing on helping the boys/men in our church develop self-worth and being ‘worthy’ by developing Christlike attributes, honoring their covenants, and being good husbands and fathers. Instead of their self-worth and feelings of being ‘worthy’ defined by their church leadership callings.
Laura Root, in her 40’s, bravely shares her journey as a single gay Mormon woman which eventually led her into a same-sex marriage. She continues to attend her Idaho Ward where she has attended for 16 years and where she once served as the Relief Society President. Laura is no longer able to participate fully in Mormonism. While Laura is living outside of the doctrine of our church she is not living outside of the circle of humanity to extend our love and kindness. Thank you Laura for sharing your story to help us understand how to minister, support and honor our LDS LGBTQ members living outside the doctrine of our church.
Ganel-Lyn Condie noted LDS speaker and author, who just released her 6th book called ‘You are More Than Enough, You Are MAGNIFICIENT”, shares valuable insights to see ourselves as beloved children of Heavenly Parents. She also talks about suicide, being kind to LGBTQ people, how to navigate faith changes within our families, and making our church more inclusive and accepting. Thank you Ganel-Lyn for all you are doing to bless others and help us come unto Christ.
Lisa Hansen, PhD, LMFT, is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and clinical director of Flourish Counseling Services, PLLC (with an office at Encircle). She has conducted approximately 4,000 LGBTQ therapy sessions. Lisa shares her insights and expertise to help families, local leaders and LGBTQ people navigate this road. Thank you, Lisa! You are awesome!
Alyson and George talk about their dear gay son Stockton who died in June 2016 at the age of 17. In bravely continuing to share their story, they teach all of us (parents, local leaders, community) how to better minister to and support our beautiful LGBTQ brothers and sisters (and really everyone). I deeply love and admire Alyson and George. They are two of the strongest and more Christlike people I know and are blessing hundreds.
Want to be a better disciple of Christ and better minister? Please listen ❤️
standingforstockton ❤️
ichooselove ❤️
Peter is a gay Mormon and Blair is a bisexual Mormon. At April 2018 General Conference, they held signs ‘hug a gay Mormon’ and ‘hug a bisexual Mormon’. Peter and Blair share their story for our listeners so we can better understand and support our LGBTQ members. Thank you, Peter and Blair. You two are awesome!
Podcast describing my LGBTQ viewpoint from the perspective of a faithful and believing Mormon. Based on this Facebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10214519759580891
My good friend Jaxon Washburn, age 19 helps us understand our younger members. Jaxon is currently at Arizona State University working on a degree in Religious Studies and is preparing to serve a mission. He is deeply connected to many religions and shares his testimony and belief in our Restored Church. Jaxon talks about our younger members and addresses common traits, relevant data, difficult issues, how church leaders can better reach this group, and his experience. I believe people like Jaxon represents the future of our Church and I have great faith in and hope for the future as I listen to and learn from our younger members.
Cynthia Winward helps us better understand woman’s voices in the church so we can do a better job of hearing this voices, seeing things from other perspectives, so our Restored Church can work for more of our members. Thank you, Cynthia. You are strong, capable and a great example for me and so many.
Cruz Soto shares his journey from the streets of California into the Mormon Church. I was honored to be Cruz’s YSA Bishop and see this journey first-hand. Listening to Cruz’s story will help us better minister to all our members. Cruz is joined by his dear wife Kelsi Soto. Podcast based on this Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10209368305477758
Richard Ostler Presentation at Utah State University on Tuesday, April 25th on how to show kindness, love, compassion and respect to God’s LGBTQ Children. Church owned LDS Living wrote the following article based on this presentation. http://www.ldsliving.com/-You-Can-Be-an-LGBT-Ally-and-a-Faithful-Member-of-the-Church-Says-Former-YSA-Bishop/s/88315
Ellis Ivory (former Mission President) and Brent Brown (former Missionary) tell the story of holding an all-mission conference in 1979 in this historic 12th Century Church. Brent Brown and his wife Mona return in 2016 and learned of a fundraiser to ‘save the bell tower’. Brent talks about ‘returning the favor’ of 37 years ago and organized a fundraiser among these missionaries. In 2017, President and Sister Ulrich went to Hawkshead to present a check for $20,000 and share all the door-opening experiences that followed.
David Ostler (my good brother) as his dear wife Rachelle are active members of the church living in Virginia. Dave has served as a Mission President, Stake President and currently as Service Missionaries. As part of that assignment, they reached out to members who no longer attend to better understand the ‘why’ behind why they left. On this podcast, Dave will discuss how we can better minister to those who are struggling or who have stepped away and a new web site called stakeandwardresources.com he designed to help local leaders better address this topic.
Don and Debra, active members of the church, share their family journey to love and accept their gay son Lincoln and his husband Robert. The Coes give helpful advice for parents, local leaders and LGBTQ people. The Coes talk about how most of their local Mormon community supported/attended the wedding reception for this same-sex couple ... in the same way ‘we’d support a straight couple.’ The Coes also share a tender reconciliation between their son Marshall and Lincoln/Robert on Mother’s day a week before Marshall suddenly passed away and their work to prevent LGBTQ suicides.
Join us as my good friend Chris Gallagher shares his life journey growing up in the Bay Area, serving a mission to Uruguay, BYU, leadership role at USGA at BYU, transferring to the University of Utah and starting to date men. Hearing Chris’s story ... even if some of it is outside of the doctrine of our Church ... helps us to better understand our LGBTQ brothers and sisters. Thank you Chris for bravely sharing your story.
I'd like to share some my thoughts on this question from the perspective of a deeply believing and committed member. These are my thoughts only. I do not speak for the Church. Perhaps my thoughts will be helpful to both our members and those doing Temple recommend interviews.
Thoughts on this topic from the perspective of a former YSA Bishop. Based on this Facebook Post
https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10213596025968128
If we look closer, these are two very different roads. This podcast addresses these differences so we can all better minister to our LGBTQ members. The podcast is based on this Facebook post from June 2017 https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10211776675765510
Podcast on finding your companion based on my our experience to find my wife and from working with many during my YSA assignment. Based on this Facebook post https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10211905609468772
Ben currently attends BYU where he is getting his Master's in Social Work and teaches Spanish. Ben shares his journey coming to terms with his sexual orientation, coming out to his friends at BYU, staying active in the Church and broadly sharing his life story as a Gay Mormon.
This podcast discusses cultural judging in our Mormon culture and how we can do better to help everyone feel like they belong. It is based on a Facebook post from May 2017 that went viral with over 10,000 shares. See www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10211600652005026
Jena bravely share her story as gay woman who is active in the LDS church. Jena and her husband are the parents of 3 children and she owns her own practice as a Life Coach, focusing on LGBT individuals and/or their families. Thank you Jena for the courage to share your story. You are awesome! You are helping us to better understand God’s LGBTQ children.
In 2010, Hannes (age 13) and his family arrived in Utah from South Africa.
Hannes joined the Church in 2014 and then served mission for our Savior Jesus Christ to Chicago. His story is one of most faith promoting and sacred experiences of my life. Be prepared to be uplifted.
Hannes is joined on this podcast with his friends Matt Ostler, Braxton Chipman and Tom Garbett who talk about his conversion story.
We love and admire you Hannes and your wonderful family,
Sincerely, The Ostler Family ❤️
What I teach about pornography after serving as a YSA Bishop. This podcast is for good men and women courageously trying to solve a porn problem and others trying to help them. This podcast is based on this Facebook post https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10210699039265271
Paul currently serves as an LDS Bishop of his local Ward in Riverton Utah. On January 28, 2018 Bishop and Sister Augenstein held a meeting in their LDS Ward Building where LGBTQ people and family members spoke. They share their journey to listen, learn and love God’s LGBTQ which led to having LGBTQ people their home and the meeting in their Ward to talk about LGBTQ.
LDS Living wrote about this meeting: http://www.ldsliving.com/Inactive-Gay-Mormon-Shares-Powerful-Insights-After-Attending-Church-for-the-First-Time-in-Years/s/87741
Facebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10213797070994128
On Feb 15, 2018, John’s story went viral in LDS circles as Church owned LDS Living published ‘You are My People: Inactive Gay Mormon Shares Powerful Insights After Attending Church for the First Time in Years.' We will hear John share his journey as a gay Latter-day Saint man, some of his highs and lows, and his experience attending church on January 28, 2018 which led to the LDS Living article. Thank you John for helping us to listen, learn and love. More at www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10213797070994128
Need to feel forgiven following sin? Need to have hope you can become clean again? Want to help others working through sin? Please listen to this podcast based on impressions from Heavenly Father after hundreds of interviews during my YSA service. Podcast based on this post: www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10209802682896922
Richard ‘Papa’ Ostler talks about an LDS ‘faith crisis’ including his own ‘mini-faith crisis’ while serving as a YSA Bishop. Richard remains a deeply committed Latter-day Saint He shares principals to help others through their own faith crisis and how we can better understand and support the good members of our church struggling with their faith. Podcast based on this post: www.facebook.com/richard.ostler.5/posts/10213734628273099
Episode 1 introduces the podcast and talks about our purpose, scope and goals. Richard Oster also shares some LGBTQ thoughts.