The Advancing Women in Sport Podcast: Recent Episodes
Michelle Redfern
There are a lot of statistics in sport. Statistics can give us incredible insights and help to drive high performance, in and out of the sporting arena. But what about the stories behind the statistics? What about the stories of the champions in sport who are working to level the playing field for women and girls in sport?
Storytelling is a powerful way to humanise the statistics, put a face to the challenges and opportunities that women in sport face. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast will tell you those stories behind the statistics and also offer up some powerful and actionable insights to make the changes so desperately needed in sport, and in society.
This is why I have gone further to uncover the stories beneath the stats….
In this episode of the Advancing Women in Sport podcast, I interviewed Suzie Betts, the founder of Boob Armour. Boob Armour is revolutionary protective gear specially designed for women athletes. The idea for Boob Armor was born out of Suzie's personal health scare, which highlighted a significant gap in sports safety for women's breasts. The mission of Boob Armour is to reduce breast injuries and provide women in sports with both protection and confidence. Despite facing industry resistance and challenges in initiating targeted research, Betts is a staunch advocate for gender-specific safety gear. The conversation throws light on the lack of a systemic approach to breast protection in sports, which is supported by research indicating a high prevalence of breast injuries among women athletes. This episode is a call to action for sports administrators and decision-makers to include Boob Armour in safety protocols, emphasising the importance of prioritising women athletes' health and safety. Through Suzie's advocacy, the podcast underscores the urgent need for solutions like Boob Armour. It advocates for a safer, more inclusive sporting environment where women's specific safety needs are acknowledged and addressed.
Resources:
Boob Armour Website: https://www.boobarmour.com.au
Research on Breast Injuries in Sports: https://www.boobarmour.com.au/why-boob-armour/medical-research/
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado-Perez: https://carolinecriadoperez.com/book/invisible-women/
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In my latest episode of the Advancing Women in Sport podcast, I had an energising conversation with Karen Hennessy, the founder of Women's Sport WA. We discussed Karen's journey from Ireland to Australia, her roots in physical education, and her lifelong involvement in various sport. I was so pleased to hear Karen's tireless voluntary advocacy for women's sports. Karen shared insights from her Save the Force campaign and the establishment of Women in Sport WA. We discussed the challenges faced by women in sports administration and the critical need for visibility and representation. Her initiatives, like starting a LinkedIn group and an Instagram account during the pandemic, are geared towards inspiring young girls in sports by providing them with accurate role models. Our conversation also covered the prevailing gender inequality in sports workplaces. It looked towards the future of women and girls in sports, highlighting the global trend of breaking attendance records and increasing visibility. You can find Karen on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-hennessy-7b12b250/ and on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/womeninsportwa/
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Sarah Karlik joins me in this Advancing Women in Sport podcast episode. Sarah, a multi-talented figure in sports, shared her journey, spanning over 25 years, from a young athlete to a respected name in women's soccer.
Our discussion was about Sarah's academic pursuits, particularly her PhD research focused on the experiences of international women's football players. This research coincides with the growing professionalisation and globalisation of women's football. It aims to influence future sports policies and practices.
A significant aspect of our talk was women athletes' challenges, especially concerning earning a living wage and the disparities between men's and women's earnings in sports. Sarah emphasised the importance of networks in supporting athletes' careers locally and globally.
We also explored practical steps for sporting organisations and individuals to support women in sports. This included the importance of gender-inclusive hiring practices and the role of mentorship in advancing women's careers in sports.
Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahkarlik/ and follow her insights on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coaches_digest/
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In this episode of The Advancing Women in Sport podcast, Molina Asthana joins as a guest to discuss her trailblazing career in the legal and sporting industries.
Molina shares her story of growing up in India, where girls' participation in sports was not encouraged. She found inspiration in the Australian sporting culture. She began running and participating in fun runs, which helped her gain confidence, make friends, and find support. Molina emphasises the benefits of sports for women from diverse backgrounds, including a sense of belonging and building self-assurance.
The conversation focuses on several key topics, including Molina's unconventional journey into sports administration and governance, her experiences navigating challenges as a woman of colour in both the legal and sporting sectors and the importance of diversity in leadership. Molina also discusses her advocacy work for women from multicultural backgrounds, highlighting how her initiatives aim to create more inclusive sports communities and opportunities for participation at all levels. Finally, she shares her vision for the future of women in sports, emphasising the importance of continued advocacy, policy change, and the role of allies in achieving gender equality in sports.
Join us to hear Molina's inspiring accomplishments and learn more about her experiences in the legal and sporting industries. Gain insight into why sports are vital for women from diverse backgrounds. You can find Molina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/molina-asthana-gaicd-0922b1104/
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In this episode of the Advancing Women in Sport podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Catherine Ordway, Associate Professor of Sports Management at the University of Canberra. Dr. Ordway, a trailblazer in sports law and advocacy, shared her journey from a young lawyer to a critical influencer in sports integrity, ethics, and leadership. She detailed her instrumental role in establishing Women on Boards. She highlighted the slow yet evolving progress in gender diversity in sports governance. Emphasising the need for practical actions to overcome resistance, Dr Ordway conveyed optimism about the future of women in sports, citing the rise in professionalism and visibility of female athletes. This conversation underscored the significance of male allies in championing gender equality and the collective efforts required to create systemic change in the sports industry. You can find Catherine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherineordway/
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In this episode of the Advancing Women in Sports podcast, I was delighted to chat with Ellen Connor, a pioneering NCCP-certified level one boxing Canada coach and the founder of a non-profit Boxing Club and West Coast Wonder Women. Ellen shared her unique journey, starting with her experiences in the Canadian Navy at 19, where she first encountered the stark realities of gender inequality. This early exposure to a male-dominated environment shaped her resolve to create equitable opportunities for women in sports, particularly boxing.
Ellen's entry into the boxing world began as a means to rebuild her self-confidence after personal challenges. Her first boxing match at 40 was a transformative experience, igniting her passion to advocate for women's opportunities in the sport. She observed how female boxers often fight for reasons beyond competition – seeking empowerment, resilience, and self-affirmation. Recognising the lack of platforms for women in boxing, she established the West Coast Wonder Women, an inclusive event offering a stage for female boxers of all backgrounds and ages.
Ellen's advocacy extends beyond the ring. She emphasises the importance of redefining success in sports, advocating for inclusivity and equality, and challenging the status quo in male-dominated domains. Her efforts reflect a commitment to fostering talent and building a supportive community where women uplift each other. Ellen's story is a testament to the power of women's resilience and her leadership in creating inclusive spaces in sports. You can find Ellen at https://westcoastwonderwomen.net, and on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/westcoastwonderwomenplus/
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In this episode of the Advancing Women in Sport podcast, I talked with Angelica Georgopoulos, a 24-year-old ambitious to become FIFA's first female president. Angelica highlighted the ongoing issues of gender inequality in sports, highlighting the need for better education and increased awareness. Our discussion covered the challenges of gendered language in the workplace, the importance of addressing exclusionary behaviour, and the value of active listening to understand women's experiences in sports. Angelica shared her hands-on approach to dealing with gendered uniform issues at the Strathfield Strikers Football Club, illustrating her commitment to inclusive sports. She also offered practical advice to young women aspiring to leadership roles in sports. She stressed the importance of diversifying leadership within sports administration. You can find Angelica on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angelica-georgopoulos-79313418a/
Link to 5x5 Go Deeper Guide - https://www.advancingwomeninbusinessandsport.com/opt-in-c84da63d-c709-49ef-8c97-def6510ca1e8
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On the latest episode of the Advancing Women in Sport podcast, I spoke with Diana Taylor, a trailblazer as the first female Vice President of the Geelong Football Club. Diana recounted her transition from a young lawyer to a prominent figure in sports administration. A proponent of the quota system, she highlighted the importance of creating distinct pathways for women's leadership positions. Diana emphasised the necessity of a robust support network and maintaining professional poise in the face of adversity. Our discussion also touched upon the responsibility of sports administrators to foster gender-inclusive environments and the usefulness of skills matrices in evaluating team dynamics. Diana's positive outlook is fueled by her experiences at AFLW games, reflecting the increasing enthusiasm and advocacy for women's sports. You can find Diana at dianataylor.com.au, on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianataylorgeelong/ and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dianataylorgeelong/
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In this episode of the Advancing Women in Sport podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Jordan Robinson, a remarkable freelance writer and host in the sports journalism world. Based in Los Angeles, Jordan's contributions have been featured in GQ and Essence, and she co-hosts the engaging podcast ""Queens of the Court"" with Sheryl Swoopes.
My conversation with Jordan explored her journey from a basketball-loving young woman to a prominent voice in sports journalism. Her dedication to highlighting the WNBA and women's sports stems from personal experiences and a deep understanding of the need for representation in sports media.
Jordan's path was challenging; she faced scepticism and pressure to conform to traditional sports narratives. Her determination to spotlight the WNBA and her focus on human stories within sports are inspiring. As a woman of colour, she emphasises the importance of sharing the often-overlooked stories of black women athletes.
We discussed the challenges and triumphs of being a trailblazer in sports media. Jordan's story is a testament to resilience, understanding your own worth, and the significance of a supportive network.
You can find Jordan at https://jordanrobinson.media/
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Welcome to the first episode of Season 3 of the Advancing Women in Sport podcast. Season 3 is Stories of Women Levelling the Playing Field in Sport. This season, I am listening to and learning from women's stories of resilience, advocacy, and leadership, shaping the future of women's sport. From the groundbreaking work of women in sports media like Jordan Robinson, who is altering the narrative to ensure women athletes, particularly from marginalised communities, are visible and heard, to the trailblazers like Diana Taylor and Angelica Georgopoulos, who are breaking into and transforming leadership roles within sports. This season also highlights the essential nature of inclusivity, the ongoing battle against gender inequality, the importance of safety and health initiatives like Boob Armour, and the irreplaceable support networks behind successful women in sport. Each story shared this season offers hope, a call to action, and a testament to the power of women's resilience and strength in sport. Join me as we explore these compelling stories and work together to level the playing field for women in sport.
For more about me and my work, visit MichelleRedfern.com.
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Tarik Bayrakli was a banker and is now an active advocate for respect and social inclusion in sport. Tarik is the Manager of the Victorian Women’s Trust harm prevention sports initiative, Club Respect, and runs a sports adventure camp for at-risk African-Australian teenage girls and boys. In his spare time he plays social-league Futsal, loves hanging out with his 2 kids and laments the poor performance of his beloved Carlton Blues.
Club Respect is a national harm-prevention initiative by the Dugdale Trust for Women & Girls, of which the Victorian Women’s Trust is Trustee. Club Respect aims to eliminate bullying, sexism, racism, abuse or violence from sport through various programs and frameworks.
We discuss how Tarik, as a man, has come to work in the gender equality sector, the barriers he faces when helping sport to dismantle harmful patriarchal attitudes and what his call to action is for all people in sport, especially those with power and influence.
Links and Resources
Tarik Bayrakli LinkedIn
Club Respect
Club Respect: Smart Plays Podcast
The A.W.E.S.O.M.E. Framework
The Victorian Women's Trust
How to Listen to People from Diverse Communities
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You may not be surprised that women athletes receive more online abuse than their male counterparts. However, you may be surprised (and appalled) that women in sport are 2.6 x more likely to receive abuse online than men in sport. With women's sport on an inexorable rise, and with it the profile of women athletes, it is now time to turn our attention to what we do to protect them from harmful online abuse.
Jacqueline Comer, one of the co-founders of Areto Labs, joins me in a discussion about how the worlds of politics, technology, artificial intelligence, and sport collide in a way that benefits women. We discuss why it's so important for sports administrators to take proactive steps to protect their athletes and their communities of fans and, importantly, how they can do that.
Links and Resources
Jacqueline Comer LinkedIn
Areto Labs
The Toxic Cost of Success Report
Our Watch – Doing Nothing Does Harm
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Chloe Dalton decided to take action on gender inequality by using her platform as a triple-code elite athlete. She did that by creating The Female Athlete Project (in her Mum and Dads garage) to shine a light on the positive achievements of women athletes. TFAP has a podcast, social media channels, merch and much more with a lofty goal: to increase the number of people following women's sport.
I loved this conversation because Chloe provides practical advice for any of us who want to positively impact women in sport, as well as a HUGE call to action for sporting administrators around Australia.
About Chloe
Chloe Dalton is a three-code elite athlete, having participated at the top level in AFLW, Basketball and Rugby 7’s. After playing basketball in the WNBL with the Sydney Uni Flames, Chloe transitioned to Rugby, where she debuted for the Australian Rugby 7s team in 2014.
At the Rio 2016 Olympics, Chloe won Gold with the Australian 7s team and was awarded an Order of Australia Medal for Service to Sport. She was also recognised as Australia’s top Rugby 7s player in 2017, winning the Shawn Mackay Medal. Chloe then crossed codes again to Aussie rules, making her debut in 2019 for Carlton in the AFLW. Chloe currently plays AFLW for the GWS Giants and is the founder of The Female Athlete Project – which we’ll talk a lot about today!
Links and resources
The Female Athlete Project
Chloe Dalton
True North Research
Recognition Matters
Honour A Woman
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Matt Hammond works in one of the most patriarchal sectors in sports, the sports betting industry. He is determined to use his privilege as a young, white, straight, cis-gender man to improve not only his organisation and the sector but also to help shift attitudes about women by standing up for women's rights. Matt is a great example of someone who is privileged yet is intentionally and continuously learning about gender equity, putting his learning into action, and then doing some more learning. His key advice? For more male athletes to stand up for equality, for more men to stop and really listen to women and that it’s ok to stuff up, as long as you keep going. Links Matt Hammond LinkedIn Andy Murray Interview Our Watch – Doing Nothing Does Harm Inclusive Leaders Conversation Guide
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Kerry Harris is the founding Chair of Women Onside, a membership group that advocates on behalf of women in football and for women’s football. The organisation commenced in 2017 as a response to the governance issues at Football Australia and FIFA and to ensure that women were part of the discussion and were influencing decisions being made about football (soccer) in Australia. Women Onside have achieved some remarkable outcomes in their comparatively short life, including successfully lobbying for constitutional change that supports gender quality. In addition to sharing how that was achieved, Kerry shares with me how to really get stuck into the patriarchy by changing the system of sport right from the very top. And yes, folks, we talk about quotas and the enablers of a successful quota system to change the system! We also discuss the value of networks and networking when you’re dismantling the boys club, as well as a surprising and delightful fact that I didn’t know about Kerry. Links Kerry Harris LinkedIn Women Onside FIFA Football Australia
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Like many of my other guests, Gen Dohrmann has had a lifetime in and around sport. She is now CEO of Table Tennis Australia and President of Women Sport Australia and has held numerous roles in her career, predominantly in sport. The gold in our interview is the work Gen is doing in her role at Women Sport Australia. Firstly how WSA has proactively taken the role to connect people in sport, across Australia, with each other to share information about how to advance women and girls in sport. Fragmentation is the enemy of change, and fortunately, Gen and the WSA board saw a need to perform this connecting role so that people in sports were not reinventing the wheel when it comes to gender equality in sport. Secondly we talk about the annual WISPPA awards, an outstanding initiative by WSA to showcase women athletes in all their glory, rather than in the sexualized, airbrushed way that women have traditionally been portrayed. We also have a discussion about mentoring and sponsorship, how it has enabled Gen’s career, and how she is now giving back through her volunteer work on the WSA by mentoring those coming after her, and advocating for the mentoring program that WSA runs year in and year out. There is a lot to like about the way Gen thinks and acts at a system level to level the playing field for women and girls in sport. About Gen Gen Dohrmann (nee Simmons) is the President of Women Sport Australia and the CEO of Table Tennis Victoria. With 10 year’s experience working as a sports administrator across a variety of sports, Gen has developed strong skills in the areas of marketing, communication, commercial, digital, event management and participation. With experience working in traditionally male dominated sports of horse-racing and rugby union as well as leading female sports of netball and gymnastics, Gen is well aware of gender inequities in sports which motivated her to get involved with Women Sport Australia (WSA). After completing the WSA Mentoring Program in 2017, Gen joined the Board in the same year and became President in 2020. In the last two years as President of Women Sport Australia, Gen led a voluntary board of 11 directors to increase the organization’s visibility to new heights. This has been achieved through the continued delivery of mentoring programs, running the Women in Sport Photo Action Awards competition, launching a Gender Equity in Sport Pledge, conducting Virtual Roundtables for Women in Sport advocacy groups and partnering with Cadbury to facilitate $150,000 of uniform grants for grassroots clubs across Australia. Links https://www.womensportaustralia.com.au/ https://twitter.com/auswomensport https://twitter.com/gen_dohrmann https://www.facebook.com/womensportaustralia https://www.facebook.com/genevievedohrmann/ https://www.instagram.com/auswomensport https://www.instagram.com/gendohrmann https://www.linkedin.com/company/womensportaustralia https://www.linkedin.com/in/gendohrmann/ Download my Advancing Women in Sport reports here: https://michelleredfern.com/advancing-women-in-sport/ Follow me on Social Media Facebook https://www.facebook.com/AdvancingWomeninBizandSport/
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Tony Hallam has evolved from an auditor to an advocate for women in sport. Tony wears a couple of different hats when it comes to sports. He is a co-owner of the Deakin Melbourne Boomers WNBL (Women's National Basketball League) and is also the Executive Chair of the board. In this episode, we discuss the prevailing challenges that women’s sports face, including a lack of media coverage, chronic underfunding, and low pay, as well as the knock-on effect these issues have on gender equity in sports. We also discuss the terrific story of the Boomers who were saved from extinction by a group of people who now own the club. The documentary Sidelined showcases this journey and demonstrates just how tough and exhilarating women's basketball and the business of women’s sports is. Tony shares his advice for people who want to get started being advocates for women in sport and talks about how important it is to do something if you feel moved to. Links: Tony Hallam LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-hallam-19831715/ The Deakin Melbourne Boomers https://www.melbourneboomers.com.au Sidelined – The fight for equality in women's basketball https://www.sidelineddoc.com/about Adam McKay https://www.undefeater.com.au https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-25/sidelined-melbourne-boomers-fight-for-equality-womens-basketball/101464338 Download my Advancing Women in Sport reports here: https://michelleredfern.com/advancing-women-in-sport/ Follow me on Social Media Facebook https://www.facebook.com/AdvancingWomeninBizandSport/ LinkedIn https://au.linkedin.com/in/michelleredfern Twitter https://twitter.com/RedfernMichelle Instagram https://instagram.com/advancewithmichelle
Adam Bishop has had a long career in sport and became aware, very early in his career about the disparities and discrepancies in terms of access and profile of women and girls in sport in general. Rather than ‘admire the problem’ he decided to take action, whenever and wherever he could. We discuss the matter of fairness, which can get overlooked in the dialogue about advancing women in sports as well as the role that leaders must play when they are in positions of authority and influence. Adam shares how he uses his relationships and plants seeds of thought in others' minds so that he can gain consensus from others about women participating and being more represented in senior roles in sports. Adam also talks about the importance of the system of the sport getting behind gender equality. He calls out the work of Sport & Rec in South Australia as well as the work of the Office of Women Sport & Recreation here in Victoria to make changes to the system that enables sporting administrators to take action to close the gender gap in sport. We also talk about how it takes courage and patience, and you have to use data really well to be an effective ally to women in sports. Adam is a humble leader, who isn’t comfortable being called an ally, but I can guarantee that he absolutely is! About Adam Adam is a dynamic and entrepreneurial senior sports executive with an impressive track record of delivering successful outcomes across the areas of community participation and high-performance sport, and the events industry. Appointed to the CEO role at Athletics South Australia at the age of 25, Adam spent nearly a decade in this position, transforming and growing the business, before accepting an offer to take up the Interim High-Performance Director role at Athletics Australia in late 2017. Following athletics’ highly successful 2018 Commonwealth Games campaign, Adam moved to his current role as General Manager of Growth and Development at Athletics Australia, where he is responsible for overseeing and developing a range of programs to facilitate the growth of athletics in Australia. Adam is also an experienced Non-Executive Director, having served 3 years on the board of a community disability services organization during a period of significant organizational growth and governance reform. Adam holds a Masters's degree in Sports Administration and a Bachelor of Education with majors in physical education and English and is a graduate Fellow of the renowned Governor's Leadership Foundation program. Adam is also a competitive athlete, having won a National Junior 800m title before securing a college athletics scholarship in the USA and later going on to represent Australia at the World University Cross Country Championships. Links: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adabish/ * Office of Women Sport & Recreation Victoria: https://sport.vic.gov.au/our-work/participation/women-and-girls-sport/office-women-sport-and-recreation * Sport & Recreation South Australia: https://www.sportsa.org.au/about/
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Professor Clare Hanlon is focussing on building organisational capacity to encourage more women to advance into leadership roles in sport. Clare discusses how she learns from the sport industry to identify what is working and what is not when it comes to having more women in leadership. Whilst she is a researcher, she is clear that she only wants research that will create change for women and girls. We discuss how important the art of storytelling is in sport and recipients being able to hear and appreciate the key messages as well as being able gain actionable insights. Clare says this is an important factor in her wide-ranging research as she wants it to inform and stimulate action, so she is also focussed on translating research into practices. Clare is determined to eliminate the boundaries for women and girls in sport, and we discuss her critical research and actionable insights about the impact of uniform choices, particularly on pre-teen and teenage girls. This includes a shoutout to some sports organisations who have stepped up in terms of uniform choices so that participation for women and girls, of all ages and walks of life, is not compromised by attire. About Professor Clare Hanlon Clare is passionate to create ‘no boundaries’ for girls and women in sport. In her pursuit Clare translates research into practice and provides advice to international through to local organisations to build community capacity that breaks down barriers and increases opportunities for women and girls as leaders and players in sport. Her global collaboration includes working with colleagues in countries including Canada, USA, South East Asia and the Pacific. Clare has pushed the boundaries for sport uniforms for girls and women, co-led a national roadmap to assist organisations build capacity to embrace women and girls in sport and a national policy framework for women in sport; created a high level women in sport strategy for Sport Australia; was a member on the Victorian Ministerial Inquiry for Women and Girls in Sport and Active Recreation; and advisor for three State/Territory Governments on infrastructure and systems to encourage women and girls in sport. In recognition of creating change, Clare was inducted into the Victorian Women’s Honour Roll (2018), recognised as a Change our Game role model by the Victorian Minister for Sport (2016) and a chapter was dedicated to her in the book Oceania inspirational women: Making a difference in physical education, sport and dance (2016). Currently, Clare is a Director of the Oceania Gymnastics Union, a member of the inaugural Diversity and Inclusion Council of Auscycling; and a Co-Founder of Musical Moments Trust in support of Challenge to help children with cancer. Links * Victoria University Women and Girls in Sport -https://www.vu.edu.au/about-vu/university-profile/sport-at-victoria-university/women-in-sport * Clare Hanlon Victoria University - https://www.vu.edu.au/research/clare-hanlon * Building Capacity of Community Sport Clubs to Increase Female Participation - https://vuir.vu.edu.au/39848/ * Change Our Game - https://changeourgame.vic.gov.au/leadership-centre
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Dr Ryan Storr is a ‘pracademic’ who is determined to move beyond research and reporting on how bad things are for the LGBTQIA+ community in sport. He is the co-founder of Proud2Play which is the peak organisation for LGBT sport in Victoria, Australia and a vocal advocate for enabling people in community sport to become more informed about and connected to diversity and inclusion. Ryan is one of those people who is an activist, agitator and advocate and is very comfortable calling homophobia, vilification, and discrimination out. We talk about how LGBT inclusion has been the ‘poor cousin’ of diversity initiatives, and how homophobia and transphobia has been left to fester in some environments. Ryan shared The Rainbow Roadmap, a fabulous tool to help organisations become rainbow ready and how, in the game I love most, Australian Rules Football, men are benefitting from the inclusion of women in all sorts of surprising ways. This is an interview where you can learn how to create more inclusion in sport for the rainbow community, why inclusion is good business management skills, and how failing to take care of the rainbow community in sport is bad business management. About Dr. Ryan Storr: Ryan is the Co-Founder of Proud 2 Play inc. He completed his Ph.D. from Victoria University in Melbourne in 2017, and his thesis explored how community sports volunteers engage with diversity work. He is a lecturer and Academic Course Advisor at Western Sydney University, and his research focuses on diversity within the sport, with a specific focus on LGBTI+ inclusion in sport. He has led numerous research projects over the past five years, and these have included evaluations and projects which have explored how Australian sports organizations enact and engage with LGBTI+ inclusion. Resources: LinkedIn Proud2Play Creating an LGBTI+ Inclusive Club LGBTI+ Inclusion Checklist for Community Sports Clubs Download my Advancing Women in Sport reports here: https://michelleredfern.com/advancing-women-in-sport/ Follow me on Social Media Facebook https://www.facebook.com/AdvancingWomeninBizandSport/ LinkedIn https://au.linkedin.com/in/michelleredfern Twitter https://twitter.com/RedfernMichelle Instagram https://instagram.com/advancewithmichelle
Moya Dodd is a self-confessed football nut who has had lots of adventures in football. In fact, she has played 3 different codes of the game in her life. Including playing at the highest level for Australia for The Matilda’s, Australia National Football (soccer) team. In our conversation, Moya and I reflect on her career, from the early days when women literally had to fund themselves and fundraise to get to any kind of game through to today, when we are still fighting for equality for women in sport. We discuss how the system of sport changes for the better, for example Title IX in the US and how important quotas are to accelerating representation of women. We also affirm how important it is to have women in all the places where decisions are being made about sport. We also discuss what being a trailblazer feels like, especially under extreme pressure and duress. This is conversation not to miss, because it will give anyone who is serious about smashing the patriarchy in sport a how to guide. About Moya: Moya Dodd is a lawyer, sports administrator and a former vice-captain of Australia’s women’s football team, the Matildas. She played in FIFA’s first ever women’s tournament in 1988. Twenty-five years later, she joined the governing body of FIFA - among the most privileged and male-dominated institutions in the world – as one of the first women in its 108-year history. Resources: • Moya's Website • Moya Dodd Has A Radical Idea For FIFA Reform: Include Women. • FIFA, football, and women: why reform must specify inclusion and investment • FIFA Governance: How Crisis Opened the Door for Gender Equality Reforms Download my Advancing Women in Sport reports here: https://michelleredfern.com/advancing-women-in-sport/ Follow me on Social Media: Facebook https://www.facebook.com/AdvancingWomeninBizandSport/ LinkedIn https://au.linkedin.com/in/michelleredfern Twitter https://twitter.com/RedfernMichelle Instagram https://instagram.com/advancewithmichelle
Welcome to Season 2 of The Advancing Women in Sport podcast. This time, I am lifting my eyes and shifting my focus to the whole system of sport.
I know from the work that I do with clients in both the business and sport areas that it's important to fix systems and remove barriers that prevent women from all walks of life, from all ages and stages, in all sports on and off the field from reaching their potential.
My guests in season two are diverse. They are people of different genders. They're in different geographies, yes, I am going beyond Australia. I am also widening my research and conversations to different parts of the sporting sector.
What season two guests all have in common is that they are agitating, advocating, and activating for gender equality in sport. Like me, they are committing to dismantling the boys club and smashing the patriarchy in sport.
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The finale episode is a live recording of our launch event for the Advancing Women in Sport Podcast, where we had a live audience along with Q&A.
About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experience n sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
Click the links below to listen to a sample of our episodes. To subscribe, simply head to the Lead to Soar page.
Lead to Soar is a podcast for career women looking to advance inside an organization (i.e. working for companies, governments, non-profits). Lead to Soar is hosted and executive produced by Michelle Redfern and Mel Butcher.
Lead to Soar is a production of A Career that Soars!
About Dr Hannah Macdougall Hannah Macdougall is a dual Paralympian and previous World Record Holder, representing Australia in swimming and cycling. She also co-captained the Australian Swimming Team at the 2006 World Championships and the 2008 Paralympic Games.
Hannah has completed a Bachelor of Exercise and Sport Science/ Bachelor of Commerce (Sport Management) at Deakin University and completed a PhD in athlete wellbeing at LaTrobe University.
When she is not training, Hannah is an inclusion advocate, mindfulness, breathwork and wellbeing ‘pracademic’, and Senior Advisor for Community Programs and Campaigns at the Victoria State Emergency Services.
Visibility of Disability in Sport In her interview with Michelle, Hannah talks about the lack of role models and visibility in sport for people living with a disability. As Michelle notes, despite a significant proportion of the population identifying as having a disability, they remain underrepresented in sport and media.
Hannah says people with a disability do not often see themselves represented in sport, and so it becomes a space with which they do not necessarily identify. She says, the more we normalise disability in this space, the more people we will engage in sport and the more perspectives we will gain on what it means to have a disability.
Perceptions About People With A Disability Hannah talks about how people with a disability are perceived, and the misconceptions around their all-around ability. For example, Hannah says there have been times when she has been riding her bike and people will ride past her to say, “It’s great to see you out riding a bike”. Despite the fact that her level of fitness and skill on a bike trumps most, people have had a tendency to view her for her disability rather than for her athletic ability.
However, Hannah says things have changed and progress has been made over her time in elite sport. In particular, Hannah says there has been an attitude shift in the way people perceive and approach disability. For example, she says people used to view athletes with a disability as “cripspirational”— a play on words used to describe someone who is inspiring, not for their ability, but for their disability. Hannah says nowadays athletes are increasingly recognised for their athletic ability, rather than their disability.
The Confidence to Support Athletes With A Disability Hannah also says the appetite for parasports is growing, particularly after gaining momentum through the Tokyo games. With more people being involved, the games and categories are evolving, and regulations are enabling clubs to have the confidence, skills and resources to support people with a disability.
Following the Tokyo games, it also became known that Paralympians do not receive the same financial gains as their Olympic counterparts. In response to public outcry, the Government stepped in, promising that funding will hereon go towards prize money for Paralympians.
As Michelle notes, without an income, athletes cannot fully commit to their sport. Therefore, ensuring athletes are remunerated is a large part of getting them into, and keeping them in sport. Hannah acknowledges some of the work that has already been done in this space, such as the athlete support scheme. The scheme is designed to support athletes, taking into consideration their unique circumstances, and providing a level of funding that aligns with their medal potential. While Hannah admits it has its flaws, she believes it is a major step forward.
The Commercialisation of The Disability Sports Sector Hannah also believes that by tapping into the market of people living with a disability, the disability sports space will attract more revenue. She says organisations can tap into this market when their content, visuals and stories are inclusive of people with disabilities. This said, as Michelle notes, it is not only important for organisations to market to people with a disability, but also to ensure there are practices and facilities that allow them to participate.
In Hannah’s experience, she says organisations are successful in creating a space for people with a disability when they use a strong inclusion approach. According to Hannah, an inclusion approach looks to integrate sports and allow equal access to facilities. It also recognises the efforts and contributions of diverse people through awards and shares their stories through visual content.
Hannah says language is also a big part of creating more inclusive spaces and says it is important to use a “person-first” approach. According to Hannah, this involves referring to people in terms of their strengths, rather than in terms of things like their gender, age or disability. She also believes the language of “we” rather than “I” is key to driving meaningful change.
We Need More Data on Women With a Disability Hannah and Michelle also touch on the lack of data around sport and disability and call upon researchers to focus their efforts in these areas. As Michelle notes, with research comes awareness, and with awareness comes action. With more data, leaders in sport can account for and generate outcomes for people with disabilities in this space.
In closing, Hannah leaves us with words of wisdom about the power of mindfulness in regulating our emotions and increasing psychological flexibility. All in all, she believes the world will be a better place if we can all practice a little more mindfulness.
Call to Action Hannah says we need to normalise people with a disability in the sport space by increasing their representation in media, sharing their stories, and focusing on their strengths. She says organisations have a role in creating a more inclusive space for people with disabilities and can do so by awarding their contribution, allowing equal access to facilities, and using more inclusive language and content.
Michelle also calls for more research into disability and sport so that leaders can make informed decisions and account for people with a disability.
Listen to the interview
About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experience n sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
About Professor Emma Sherry Emma Sherry is a Professor at Swinburne University, specialising in the field of Sport Development, and is Chair of the Department for Management and Marketing in the Swinburne Business School. Emma also sits on the board of Tennis Victoria, for which she held presidency from 2018-20, and now serves as Board Director.
Emma has completed a Bachelor of Arts at the University of Melbourne, and a Masters of Business (Sport Management) and PhD at Deakin University. In 2014, Emma was awarded the Victorian Women’s Governance Scholarship, which led to her completion of the highly esteemed Company Directors course at the Australian Institute of Company Directors.
Emma’s interest in sport research for development and social change has led to her involvement in research projects that work with a variety of national and regional sporting organisations— including Netball Australia, National Rugby League, Australian Football League, Tennis Australia and Hockey Victoria.
The Uneven Playing Field for Parents
In her interview with Michelle, Emma talks about the gendered assumptions that have impacted her experience as a woman in the sport industry. In particular, she talks about the gendered assumptions around parenthood, and the differences between what we expect of women compared to what we expect of men.
Emma says, due to the expectation that a woman will be the primary parent, people often have a narrow view of a young mother’s capacity to work. She says, when she was a young mother, people would assume she would say “no” if offered certain opportunities, such as to attend events or travel for work. Emma says, “I might want to say no, but let me say no […] Don’t just assume.”
While Emma remains well-humoured and believes people are generally well-intentioned, she says it is the “death by a thousand cuts”. The comments, “why doesn’t she want to spend more time with her family?” Or the assumption a gentleman made at an event that she must be the wife of the CEO and not the president of Tennis Victoria. She believes assumptions are often misguided and have at times taken away her agency, particularly when they inform decisions that are made on her behalf.
Emma says it is exhausting and emotionally taxing to be constantly butting up against the culture of work, and believes this is why some women struggle to advance in a career in sport. Emma says, “if it’s hard for me as a straight, white, middle class and well-educated woman, then how the hell are we ever going to get it to work for anyone else?”
Stop Fixing Women Emma says her academic background has helped her to deal with the culture of work, teaching her to locate her personal experience within a much broader structural context. She says, “It’s helped because I understand that the challenges are structural. So, it’s not me… It’s multiple ‘me's’ in multiple infrastructures.” As such, Emma believes it is not about “fixing” or mentoring women, it is about fixing the structures and the systems that prevent women from reaching their potential.
When asked how COVID has impacted women in sport, Emma draws from her own experience, whereby she had to very quickly fall back into juggling work and primary care. In this way, Emma’s story is not unique, as many women, have taken the default position as primary carer due to the stay-at-home order and home-schooling.
According to Emma, before COVID hit the global stage, progress was being made to upend some of the more structural and systemic issues that prevent women from advancing in the industry. She says, “It felt for a long time, in women’s sport, that we’d make an incremental shift, and then it would fall back […] At the start of 2020, it felt like, you know what, I don’t think we can fall back […] And then COVID hit and structural inequality trumps all.”
The Uneven Playing Field in Sports Media Emma uses the example of sports media in the early days of COVID, during which there was virtually no sport taking place around the world. She says, despite there being no sport, media organisations reverted to men’s sport, as this continues to be the default. She says, during this period “the visibility of any sport that wasn’t one of those big football codes or the NBA or something like that, just completely disappeared, let alone the women’s versions of the game.”
Emma says, “People are making those decisions. They’re not accidental, they’re decisions.” She adds, “It’s never going to be fair all of the time, but it shouldn’t be unfair by accident.” She says, leaders must interrogate their decisions and understand what those decisions mean to people. At the very least, leaders can apply a gender lens, which begs the question “how will this decision impact women and girls?”
Emma believes part of the problem is the mindset of scarcity. She says, “It’s that idea that there’s not enough pie […] If women take some pieces of the pie, then men won’t get pie… Well, just make the pie bigger!” In this way, Emma operates out of a mindset of abundance, believing it is important to “create space” for those who will one day succeed us.
Men Taking Action on the Uneven Playing Field In many ways, Emma has been influenced by her predecessors. Emma says, in becoming President of Tennis Victoria, she was the beneficiary of a big process, and that it took a brave chair and CEO, who were both men, to create change. She says, “They did a lot of heavy lifting in a governance and leadership setting, and the previous president made space for me […] He stepped down and said ‘you are the best person, now’s the right time’.”
Likewise, Emma says, “I bring people with me and I know when to get out of their way”. She says “I stick around as long as I am needed and useful, and then I get out. Whether that’s in my day job or bringing people into projects and then sneaking out […] I cannot and will not be able to do all of the things.
Call to Action Emma calls upon leaders to interrogate their decisions and create space for women to genuinely succeed in the sport industry. Emma says people must be willing to engage in self-reflection, both at the individual and organisational level. She says, ask yourself, “What can I do as an individual to make space or have a better understanding of what it’s like to be a woman, or a person with a disability, or a culturally and linguistically diverse person? […] What’s my role in this? And am I one of the reasons that someone else is not able to be their best version of themself?”
“What can I do as an individual to make space or have a better understanding of what it’s like to be a woman, or a person with a disability, or a culturally and linguistically diverse person? […] What’s my role in this? And am I one of the reasons that someone else is not able to be their best version of themself?”
About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experiences in sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
About Allison Dodd Allison Dodd is a seasoned cricket admininistrator and is currently President of the Strathmore Cricket Club. She has played her part in various roles over her time with the club, including Secretary, Committee Member, and Head of Membership. Allison also has over 15 years of senior management experience in various industry sectors, including health and aged care, vocational education, training and the not-for-profit sector.
Being The First Woman in Cricket In her interview with Michelle, Allison talks about her experience as the first female president of the Strathmore Cricket Club and what this has meant for her and the club. At first, Allison dismissed the significance of her being the first female president, though has since come around to realise its importance and how it has influenced the experience of young women and their entry into the club.
As a committee member and now president, Allison has been able to influence key decision-making to be more inclusive of women and girls, and as such, has seen massive transformation in the girls’ game at her club. For example, before Allison joined the committee, there were no girls playing cricket. Now, four years on, young girls are playing and have won their first premiership.
A Voice For Women in Cricket
“I’ve started to acknowledge my role as a role model, not just for the girls, but also the older women around the club.”
As president, Allison serves as a voice for women, providing insight at a senior level into what women need to feel welcomed and comfortable at the club. For example, Allison was able to advise on uniforms when the girls’ team was established at the Strathmore Cricket Club. At first, male committee members had suggested the girls wear pink T-shirts, and while Allison admits they were coming from the right place, she had to explain that the girls “don’t want to stand out […] they just want to be part of the club”.
On the contrary, Allison points out that differential treatment is at times necessary. For example, Allison advised that the girls’ team should wear black pants, rather than the traditional white, for the reason that women menstruate. Allison says, they may wear white pants when they are 18, but while they are just starting out, get them in the door by making them feel comfortable.
Allison also serves as a role model for women at the club, from girls playing the game, to women with participating sons and daughters. To the girls playing, she says, “I was you, you can be me”, and to the mothers she demonstrates the benefits of volunteering as president. She says, “I’ve started to acknowledge my role as a role model, not just for the girls, but also the older women around the club.”
More On Gendered Assumptions However, she also admits being a woman in a male-dominated space comes with its challenges. In particular, Allison has confronted attitudes around gender stereotypes and assumptions around a woman’s capacity to lead. While she has been able to stomp out many of these assumptions, she says it has taken a lot of time and resilience.
Allison says she has had the opportunity to tackle gendered assumptions because she is up there, leading by example and proving otherwise— but for so many women, they may never have the chance to do so. She says, while she is the type of woman who will “cannon-on through a brick wall”, others may find discriminatory attitudes off-putting.
Why Sport is a Great for Women in Business Allison admits a lot of women do not see the appeal in volunteering their time to be president of a sports clubs, though says it certainly comes with its perks. She says, through her participation at the club, she has honed indispensable skills that she has been able to bring into her paid work.
Allison believes her resilience stems from her upbringing, whereby she was heavily involved in sport. She says many of the leadership skills she now uses in her professional life were acquired through her participation in sport. She therefore encourages parents to involve their daughters in sport, just as much as their sons.
Allison also believes the women’s game suffers so long as parents continue to conform to gender norms whereby daughters get dolls and boys get footballs. She says, young boys have an advantage when they learn sports skills at an earlier age than girls. She says it starts in the home, and so families play a huge role in turning the current narrative on its head.
3 Things Women In Sport Need Whether or not you have had an upbringing in sport, there are things you can do as a woman to succeed in this space. Allison suggests three things:
- Women need allies, men and women, to support them and have their back;
- Women need a “PBOM” – a Personal Board of Management – which acts as their mentor and personal sounding board;
- Stick to your strengths and work with others who can do the things you cannot.
Allison also says, “No one’s going to knock on your door, you need to put your hand up”. She says, women need to be heard, they need to talk about their dreams, aspirations and experiences.
What Men In Sport Must Do Allison says men need to open their ears and be prepared to listen to women.
Allison says male leaders must not only listen, but actively go out and ask questions, particularly if there are mostly men across their administration. She says, ask women what they want, whether they are athletes, fans, or mothers attending their children’s events.
Call to Action Allison calls for club leaders, particularly of male-dominated clubs, to go out and ask women what they need to feel included and participate. She says, “If you’ve got a male dominated club, they’ve all got sisters, mums, girlfriend, daughters – go and ask them why they’re not here”.
“I challenge people, the next time you know a family member or friend who has a baby, and it’s a little girl, go and give her a cricket bat. Go and give her a football.”
Allison also touches on the role of parents in raising their daughters, and challenges parents to go against gender norms. Allison says, “I challenge people, the next time you know a family member or friend who has a baby, and it’s a little girl, go and give her a cricket bat. Go and give her a football.”
About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experiences in sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
About Tamatha Harding Tamatha Harding is Head of Tennis Delivery and Culture at Tennis Victoria, and is on the board of Women Sport Australia. She is also a Consultant in Strategy and Project Planning, with more than 20 years of experience in the sport industry to inform programming, development and strategic projects for sporting and non-sporting organisations.
In her time with Tennis Victoria, Tamatha has worked in a variety of roles, including Inclusion Lead, Project Leader of Female Participation, Special Projects Lead, Executive Manager of Community Tennis, and interim CEO.
From 2017-21, Tamatha sat on the Darebin Women’s Advisory Committee, helping to advise Council on gendered issues and barriers to equality for women of diverse backgrounds. From 2008-12 Tamatha was a member of the Women’s Sport Advisory Group, which was set up by VicSport and Sport Recreation Victoria to represent women in sport and increase female participation.
Making it Work for Women's Careers in Sport In her interview with Michelle, Tamatha walks us through her career in sport— from a young woman inspired by another woman in the industry, to becoming a senior leader and role model herself. Tamatha discusses what has worked for her, and what has not, providing important advice to women and leaders on what they can do to make it work for women in the industry.
When it comes to supporting women in the industry, Tamatha highlights the importance of consultation, particularly when it comes to career planning. Tamatha believes, by involving women in conversations around their future with a company or organisation, leaders can avoid making problematic assumptions that are often gendered in nature, including The Motherhood Penalty.
The Motherhood Penalty Tamatha draws from her own experience when she applied for the CEO position at Tennis Victoria. Without success, she received no feedback regarding her application, and so, could only draw from passing comments from those involved in the decision. Tamatha says, certain comments, such as “Don’t worry, your time will come […] You and your partner will probably have a family soon…” indicated to her that the decision may have been influenced by the assumption that she would soon be “settling down” to have children – an assumption underpinned by the fact that she was a young woman in a relationship.
While Tamatha has no doubt the person selected for the role was deserving, and those who made the decision did so without malice, she says she cannot help but believe her gender, including assumptions about her becoming a parent, was a factor in their decision-making.
Don't Assume What Women Want Tamatha says, in order to avoid making assumptions, women must be involved in the conversation, particularly when it comes to forging their own careers. For example, when Tamatha did decide to have children and was on maternity leave, her manager at the time made no assumptions around when/ if she would be returning to work, and in what capacity. Instead, Tamatha and her manager had a conversation about her plans, and how they might fit with the direction of the company.
Tamatha says, it was a win-win for her and the organisation. By having the conversation, she was able to arrange flexible working conditions, and the organisation was able to retain a valuable employee. She is now an example of how flexible working arrangements can work, and flips the notion on its head that senior leaders are required full-time.
Women Belong in All Places Where Decisions Are Made When asked why it is important for women to be in senior-level roles in the industry, Tamatha talks about how women influence outcomes by providing a diverse perspective. She believes an organisation needs “constructive conflict” so as to avoid “groupthink” or “artificial harmony”—diversity among its decision-makers is one way to achieve this.
Tamatha also says, women influence workplace cultures and facilitate an environment in which women may thrive. She says, there is “no point sending a woman to do whatever course if the environment that she's going to come back into is not going to be conducive to her being able to use those skills”. Tamatha says, by having women in leadership, they are able to support and advise other women coming up the ranks.
Women in leadership also become part of a network that subsequently becomes more accessible to women. As Tamatha explains, networks not only offer opportunity, they also provide encouragement for individuals to pursue opportunity. Tamatha uses the example of when she applied for the CEO role— had she not been tapped on the shoulder by a person in her network, she may never have applied. In this way, networks provide support and reaffirm our ability.
Networking Is Working Tamatha says it is important for women to grow their networks beyond their organisations, so as to expand their opportunities for professional development. She says so much of her professional growth has been outside Tennis Victoria, such as through her role on the board of Women’s Sport Australia. Through this, Tamatha has grown her network and learnt from some incredible women in the industry.
**The Importance of Male Allies** When asked what leaders can do right now to achieve gender equality in sport, Tamatha talks about the importance of allies and expresses apprehension around the idea of “male champions of change”. She says leaders “need to ask questions and they need to listen […] They need to come from a position of being an ally, not a champion.” Tamatha explains, the term “champion” indicates superiority, therefore perpetuating the very problem it stands to resolve. She says, “As soon as you say ‘champion’, it means you’re better than me, you’re ahead of me.”
Instead, Tamatha says leaders should view themselves as allies so they may genuinely support women to succeed in this space. She says an ally comes from a place of understanding— they ask questions and want to understand the lived experience of those they are trying to support. In this way, allies avoid making gendered assumptions by bringing women into the conversation
Call to Action Tamatha calls upon leaders to involve women in conversations, particularly when it comes to their future within an organisation. She says never assume, instead ask questions and be prepared to listen. In so doing, leaders show themselves to be allies to women, demonstrating a genuine want for women to succeed in the industry.
About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experiences in sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
About Emily McKie Emily McKie is currently the Women’s Head Coach at the Monbulk Football Netball Club. She is also Project Officer for the Girls on the Move project— a project that serves to increase physical activity among culturally and linguistically diverse girls and young women in Melbourne’s south-east and she hosts The Coaches Diary podcast.
Emily has a background in teaching Sport and Recreation, and completed a Bachelor of Arts at Deakin University, with a Major in Sociology and Minor in Sport and Society.
Early in her career, Emily worked with AFL Victoria as a Game Development Officer and was integral to the development and inauguration of the Eastern Region Girls Football League, which is now home to over 150 junior female football teams.
Gender Roles in Sport Michelle and Emily talk about volunteering in sport and discuss the gendered nature of how roles are often divided. As Michelle notes, women often occupy roles in catering and administration, whereas men more often hold roles that involve decision making and strategic thinking.
As a coach, Emily occupies what is typically a “male” role, and so has enjoyed some of the advantages of working in this space. For Emily, volunteering has led to some incredible opportunities, such as to her work in developing and establishing the Eastern Region Girls Football League (ERGFL). She now has over ten years of coaching experience.
Assumptions About Women Yet, despite her relative advantage and her many years of coaching, Emily admits her experience is generally very different to that of a male coach. Emily uses the example of a time when a fellow male coach proceeded to lecture her on how to coach, despite him having just met her and not knowing her extensive coaching experience.
For Emily, it can be frustrating when people assume that, because she is a woman in coaching, she must not have the level of experience as, say, a man in coaching. What can be even more frustrating is the personal conflict, whereby she wants to address overt gender bias, yet feels it may cause a spectacle.
Emily also feels that, while she has been open to learning different coaching styles and strategies by speaking to and observing the men’s teams, this attitude is not reciprocated by the male coaches. To this, Michelle highlights the benefits clubs miss out on when the men’s and women’s teams do not work collaboratively. Such benefits include shared learning and development, as well as an increased sense of inclusion for women— all of which can ultimately enhance club performance.
Burnout for Women in Sport Emily also discusses what it was like juggling multiple jobs earlier in her career. For many women in sport, this is all too familiar, as limited funding and part-time contracts forces them to work multiple jobs to make a sufficient income. Unfortunately, this can lead to what Emily experienced— burnout.
According to Emily, there were a number of factors that contributed to her burnout. First, due to the seasonality of football, Emily had to work the “gig economy”. For Emily, this entailed working three jobs to survive— she was the ERGFL Coordinator, Game Development Officer at AFL Victoria, and weekend/afterhours Sport Coordinator at Worowa Aboriginal College.
Second, Emily was part of a major development in women’s football, whereby young girls were beginning to not only play football, but could also one day pursue a career playing football. Her role as ERGL Coordinator made her feel a great sense of responsibility, not only to the league, but to women’s football more broadly. She felt immense pressure as, at the time, she felt “if I don’t do it, no one else will.”
Third, due to the nature of football, she felt if she were to turn down a chance to work in football, she may never again have the opportunity. Overwhelmed by a sense of gratitude, she pushed through in an environment that she says can be “very unforgiving”.
While Emily is grateful for the opportunities she has had to work in sport, she admits it can be a double-edged sword when opportunities are provided under organisational requirements to ‘tick a box’ or ‘fill a quota’. Emily says, when organisations do not have a genuine want to address gender inequality, it is obvious and can lead women to feel undervalued and further excluded.
Find Your Allies In saying this, Emily believes if you are a woman and you want to step into leadership, there are people who will genuinely support you. She says it is important to stick by your allies, men and women, and to actively pursue opportunities for professional development. To this, Michelle adds, it is a two-way street; leaders need to find driven, credible and ambitious women, and catapult their careers by inserting them into conversations and opportunities.
When asked what clubs can do to improve, Emily suggests going out and asking women what they want and what their experience has been. She says, “The reason why women drop out of sport is because they don't feel like they belong, or they're being delivered a program that's so basic that they're not leveling up. And you know, you can address that, but you need to ask the question, what's going on?”
Call to Action Emily calls upon leaders to go out and speak to girls and women. She says, ask yourself, “When was the last time you had a conversation with a woman […] in your organisation about what is the best step moving forward? […] When was the last time that you did research into what is actually going on with the experiences that they’re having? And how can you best support that?”
Emily also believes clubs with multiple gender-based teams need to work collaboratively to create opportunities for shared learning and development, and facilitate a club culture that is more inclusive of girls and women.
Michelle also calls upon leaders to get to know how the gig economy prevails for women in sport and the implications of juggling multiple jobs. By doing so, we can ensure that women are thriving, and not just surviving in, or exiting from, their careers in sport.
About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experience n sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
About Shelley Ware: Shelley Ware is a media personality, professional speaker, educator and consultant. Shelley hosts her own Facebook show Ware2Now? and appears regularly on Facebook show Broad Radio. She is also a member of the Outer Sanctum podcast and writer for the Koori Mail.
Shelley is well known for her part in Marngrook, a ground-breaking football program, and as host of webshow Colour of Your Jumper. In 2019, Shelley was named Fujitsu General Football Woman of the Year.
Shelley is also a teacher, hosting workshops on Aboriginal history, culture and art in primary and secondary schools around Australia. She also works as a consultant, teaching and upskilling leaders and educators in Aboriginal history and culture. Shelley is passionate about embedding Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander history and culture in classrooms and the national curriculum.
Call to Action Shelley calls for increasing diversity in media so that our televisions reflect the diversity of our streets. She says leaders must reflect on their own bias and actively seek the truth by uncovering the histories and lived experiences of women and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. By doing so, they may overcome stereotypes and be encouraged to generate more opportunity for diverse people.
Shelley also encourages young women to hone their craft, put themselves out there and find a good mentor. And to mentors, she says, give honest and actionable advice to women and women of colour coming up the ranks.
About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experience n sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
About Dr. Kate O’Halloran Kate is an award-winning journalist, media consultant, and academic, and is currently working for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation as Digital Sport Journalist. In 2019, Kate cofounded Siren, a women in sport collective calling for better coverage of women’s sport and raising the voice of women and marginalised identities in media.
Kate has completed a Bachelor of Arts with Honours in Psychology, as well as a Postgraduate Diploma in Cinema Studies at the University of Melbourne. She also completed a PhD in Gender and Cultural Studies at the University of Sydney.
In 2019, Kate was awarded the VicHealth award for Outstanding Reporting of Women’s Sport, and in 2018 was shortlisted for a Quill Award for Excellence in coverage of Women in Sport. She was also shortlisted for Excellence in Sports Programming at the Community Broadcasting Association of Australia Awards for her radio show and podcast ‘Kick Like a Girl’.
On Gender Discrimination in Sport In her interview with Michelle, Kate walks us through her experience playing sport, moving from boys’ cricket, to girls’ cricket, and going on to become a player for the women’s Victorian squad. Having played amongst boys in her earliest years, Kate observed stark differences in the ways that teams were treated and resourced, as the girls team received poorer facilities, coaching and training, and enjoyed far less prestige.
Kate says it was “a bit of a culture shock”, moving from an environment of privilege that came with more kudos and access to better facilities, to an environment in which girls were deprioritised for training, and forced to play on substandard grounds.
Kate says, when girls and women are not given inadequate grounds to play on, their game suffers. She says, “It breeds a sort of resentment, but also sends a very clear message that [girls and women] are inferior”. She adds,
“You provide us with less quality facilities, resources, investment, et cetera, and that plays out in the end product”.
Unfortunately, Kate’s time playing cricket was cut short after she incurred injury to her back. She says, due to limited resourcing and investment in women’s sport, she received poor medical advice and was forced to give up the game. She says, without the same privileges granted to the men’s team, such as access to medical staff or an income, she was unable to continue playing and at the same time afford regular treatment for her back.
On Gender Inequity in Sports Media Moving from cricket to sport media, Kate says the same inequities apply. Not only is there poorer coverage of women’s sport, women in sport journalism too often have insecure work that is either underpaid or unpaid. Take Kate for example, despite her numerous accolades, at the time of this interview, she did not have a paid and secure job in media.
Kate also talks about her experience as a journalist, and the backlash she has received, particularly when writing about gender inequality. Kate says, “I’ve never been able to write about gender inequality in sport without some form of trollling or harassment. Whether that’s online or in person, or conversations in the pub with men or boys who want to tell me that they’re not interested in women’s sport and no one is, and why do I bother writing about it.” Kate says people will go out of their way to justify and minimise gender inequality.
People will go out of their way to justify and minimise gender inequality.
Kate says, after talking to other women in the industry, it became clear to her that her position was not unique. In response, Kate co-founded Siren—an initiative that serves to diversify the newsroom and support women and people of diverse backgrounds to successfully pursue a career in sport media. Siren aims to increase coverage of women’s sport, and appropriately pay those who contribute.
While Siren is a great initiative that serves to disrupt structural inequality, it relies on the hard work of those who are already on the outskirts of mainstream media. Therefore, as Michelle notes, it is an example of how “the burden of inclusion has been placed on the excluded”.
In response to this, Kate says media organisations also need to be held to account to improve the economic wellbeing and experience of women in the industry. According to Kate, “the most successful initiatives require a public commitment, but also accountability to that commitment.”
Kate uses the example of the Women on Boards initiative, championed by the Office for Women in Sport and Recreation Victoria, that required 40% of positions on boards to be occupied by women. According to Kate, this initiative was able to create dramatic change in an area that has been relatively stagnant in its response to gender inequity. She says it was able to do so through the use of quotas, accountability reporting and by tying in funding to requirements.
Kate believes some sports and organisations are doing better than others. For example, she talks about cricket and the success of the T 20 World Cup final in bringing an audience to women’s cricket— she believes, if it were not for the pandemic and widespread fear of COVID, they would have broken their record for attendance.
We've Come A Long Way ... but For Kate, watching the women’s cricket at the T 20 World Cup was an emotional experience. Not only because she sadly feels she has missed out on a career in cricket, but more positively because women’s cricket has evolved and is now drawing in largescale audiences. In this way, Kate believes we have made genuine strides forward, though admits there is still much more to do.
Call to Action Kate calls for media organisations to commit to 50:50; not only in the representation of women’s sport, but the people producing the content. She says organisations need to hold themselves to account by making their commitment public and acting transparently through accountability reporting.
Michelle also calls for people who are looking to make a difference to turn to non-mainstream media lines, such as Siren, and contribute, whether as a subscriber, writer or investor.
Listen to the Episode About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women’s lived experience n sport. We’re uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
About Lisa Alexander AM Lisa Alexander AM is a former athlete and coach of Australian netball. She played for the Victorian State Netball team from and coached the Australian National netball team from 2011-20. Lisa has also seen gold and silver medal success at the Commonwealth Games and the Netball World Cup, and has seen multiple wins at the Constellation Cup and Quad Series.
Lisa now works as Performance Director and Coach at London Pulse Vitality Netball Superleague UK, leading performance strategy and overseeing player transition from performance pathway to elite.
She also sits on the Victorian Institute of Sport Board, as Performance and Coaching Expert.
On Gender Inequality in Sports In her interview with Michelle, when asked about how she came to realise the problem of gender inequity in sport, Lisa recollects a time when she was playing netball for Victoria and the Australian squad. She says the realisation came to her when she compared her experience playing at an elite level, to the experience of her then partner who played semi-professional football; he was being paid to play in a country football league, whilst Lisa was not being paid to play at, what was then, the highest level in netball.
Lisa says, there continues to be a need for more transparency around pay, particularly for roles that are paid out of taxpayer's money. She also calls for more transparency around the criteria and credentials required for such positions, and endorses the use of quotas and targets in order to progress. Afterall, Lisa says, sport is all about targets and metrics.
Lisa also spoke to the need for more diversity across every level of an organisation. She believes people are innately biased, which is why they tend to hire or promote people who are like them. She says, "We just keep picking people who are the same as the bosses".
Lisa says, exclusive hiring practices causes sporting clubs (and the like) to ignore a large portion of their talent pool, which ultimately has implications for the performance and progress of an organisation. Therefore we must take conscious steps to avoid bias, such as through "blind selections" in hiring, or by increasing diversity on selection panels to provide varying perspectives. In Lisa’s view, we should view diversity, not only as a moral imperative, but as something that should serve to benefit an organisation by and large.
Attitudes to Gender Inequality in Sport Are Changing On a positive note, Lisa spoke about how she believes attitudes are changing towards women in sport coaching. In a discussion off air, Lisa once said she had hoped to one day be known, not for being a woman in sport coaching, but for her expertise in coaching. Lisa is hopeful that we are increasingly recognising women for their work in sport, rather than for simply being a woman in sport.
Her optimism may serve as a beacon of hope for the many women in sport who regularly deal with tokenistic attitudes that overlook their contribution to sport, as the focus tends to be on their status as a woman in sport. As Michelle notes, when women are confronted with these challenges on a regular basis, it is not only exhausting, but can lead women to drop out of sport or leave the industry altogether. When the challenge seems constant and unyielding, 'hope' may just be what many women need to hold strong.
Women Supporting Women in Sport When asked about the tactics women can use to remain resilient, Lisa encourages women to surround themselves with positive networks – particularly in today's world where social media is rife with content and comments designed to discredit or disparage. Lisa says it is important for women to look for messaging that is positive, as opposed to messaging intended to discourage or defame.
Lisa also touches on the role of community sports, and says they should focus on serving the community and representing the diverse members of their communities. She suggests, rather than "ploughing money into player payments," money for community clubs should go towards improving the club. She says more money should go into providing food, training, and more opportunities for professional development for players. “That's what community sport is all about. It's about relationships, connection to the community, serving the community."
All in all, Lisa believes it’s a balance between taking personal steps to remain resilient, such as by surrounding yourself with a supportive network, and making far-reaching structural changes, such as improving transparency in pay and advocating for diversity across the board. She believes that sport is not just a money-making machine, rather it is the glue that binds us as communities and should therefore reflect the people it is supposed to serve.
Call to Action Lisa calls for transparency and equity in pay, particularly in areas of sport paid for out of taxpayer dollars, as well as transparency in the criteria and credentials for positions across the industry. Lisa also promotes targets and suggests community sports redirect funds to support the community and the sport, rather than to hefty player payments.
Listen to the Episode About the Podcast The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger. The Advancing Women in Sport podcast goes beyond the statistics about women in sport so that all of us can become more aware of women's lived experience n sport. We're uncovering the stories beneath the stats….
In this first season, you will be able to hear the stories of women at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
The women interviewed are athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. They identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at the podcast website.
Moving from awareness to action for gender equality in sport is easy to say, and as the latest statistic prove, harder to do
When I started to research how wide the gender gap in sport was, I was very very surprised. I had laboured under the belief that sport was more equal and more inclusive than business. In fact, that theory was going to underpin my (now defunct) doctoral studies on gender equality.
So imagine my surprise when I became aware of the paucity of women in leadership in sport! Surprise turned to awareness, then awareness turned to action. I was and still am determined to close the leadership gender gap in sport.
This is why the Advancing Women in Sport research series and now the Advancing Women in Sport podcast exist. To not only build awareness but to help all of us move that awareness to action so all of us in the sports industry can drive meaningful change for women.
GENDER EQUALITY IN SPORT: FACTS AND DATA Facts and data start useful conversations and useful conversations can turn into action. Data is also a useful way to create the aha moment that I seek in leaders who want to understand how to increase the performance of their organisation through greater diversity and inclusion. Check out these data points about people who work in sport in Australia:
- 58% of SPORTS WORKERS are women
- 11% of BOARD CHAIRS are women
- 12% of CEOs are women
- 29% of BOARD DIRECTORS are women
- 32% of EXECUTIVES are women
- 59% of NON-MANAGERS are women
- 67% of CLERICAL WORKERS are women
- 60% of COMMUNITY WORKERS are women
These statistics about sport speak for themselves. Women are under-represented in leadership in sport. Women are over-represented in non-leadership roles. And, as a result, the gender pay gap in sport yawns widely.
Sport is run and governed largely by men. So what are the men in power doing to address systemic gender inequality in sports leadership?
MEN, POWER AND (IN)ACTION The collective effort to address gender inequality in sport must include men. Because they hold the power to make change! But not enough men are actively engaged or engaging in discussions or taking action on, gender inequality. Not enough men are proactively seeking out ways to level the playing field for women in sport.
Facts about men in sport that my research discovered:
· 63.1% of men in sport agree that gender inequality exists. · 59.5% of men in sport agree that gender inequality in sport is a problem. · 51.3% of men in sport believe their organisation should progress gender equality initiatives. · 86.9% of men in sport believe they have a role to play in creating gender equality. · 29.4% of men believe they are, or will be, disadvantaged due to gender inequality initiatives. Now, you don’t have to be a mathematician to realise that there is a substantial percentage of men who are not yet convinced or indeed, may be against gender equality in sport. But you would also note that there are weirdly contradictory numbers in that data set, ie: 86.9% of men know they have a role to play in creating gender equality. Perplexing, but also consistent with what we already know about the complex and contradictory views that Australia has about women, work and leadership.
Women’s Stories of Gender Equality in Sport The fact that men are not engaging in gender equality in sport is jaw-droppingly obvious to many people, particularly those women who work in the industry. Irrespective of why men are not (currently) engaging, I remain passionately committed to solving the thorny issue of the lack of women in sport and business leadership. I am engaging with men to try to understand then eliminate, the barriers to them not being involved in and actively working towards gender equality. After all, there is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that gender equality initiatives will benefit men. There is also not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that gender inequality is not just a women’s issue.
However, it is important to hear about the lived experience that women in sport have. Because women in sport are not just a statistic. I have interviewed 8 women in sport about their lived experience in my podcast, the Advancing Women in Sport podcast.
Season 1 is called “Not just a Statistic: stories of women in sport from career start to the boardroom.” The 8 interviews, released weekly from 8th March 2022, are with women athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. The women identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. They share their experience in sport, both the good and the bad, with me. They also share what their call to action is for all people in sport to close the leadership gender gap.
So if you want to move from awareness to action for gender equality in sport, you must tune in. You can download the episodes HERE and on all the usual podcast platforms.
Why Sport? My first observations about sport came a long time after I was first involved. Sport has featured consistently throughout my entire life, whether as a little person watching from the side-lines when my parents played or as a young person and adult being involved in various team and individual sports.
As I became older, I moved my involvement in sport back to the side-line, however this time as a contributor not just a spectator. I coached, managed, scored and eventually became an administrator. My roles in sporting administration enabled me to combine my areas of strength and passion, being leadership, business administration and sport.
So, you can see sport has been a part of my life for a long time. But my first observations about sport were about the sheer lack of women in leadership.
The 3 Things I Do for Sport 1. I help to fix the system that prevents women from all walks of life from reaching their full potential. The system is industry and workplaces. I work with boards, CEOs executives, and leaders to move sports workplace gender equality, diversity, and inclusion from conversation to action and to close the leadership gender and inclusion gap in their organization. 2. I help women from all walks of life to navigate the system that is still so fundamentally stacked against them. Through my corporate women’s leadership development programs, my global businesswomen’s network, A Career that Soars, and through my mentoring and advocacy, I aim to be a human GPS to women in sport who want to succeed. 3. I am an advocate for women in sport and I research, advise and consult to the sporting industry about how to close the leadership gender gap in sport.
**Listen to the Episode**
Episode 1: The Advancing Women in Sport Podcast - Invisible Barriers
Women in sport face many invisible barriers. My podcast will highlight some of those barriers and help sporting leaders take action to address them.
I want all of us to know what in the world is going on for women in sport. Because achieving gender equality in sport will create a more prosperous, sustainable, and enjoyable sporting arena for all of us.
Read Full Show Notes and download the paper: https://michelleredfern.com/advancing-women-in-sport/
We know that storytelling is a powerful way to humanize the statistics, put a face to the challenges and opportunities that women in sport face. The need to tell the stories of women in sport and to create a clarion call to action to close the gender gaps in sport has never been stronger.
Our first two Advancing Women in Sport research reports gathered statistics as well as publish our own qualitative and quantitative research on people of all genders in sport. While ours and others statistics provide incredible insights, they often fail to give us any real understanding of people’s lived experience. Which is why, for our third Advancing Women in Sport research report, we have gone further to uncover the stories beneath the stats….
We have decided to leverage one of the most powerful storytelling formats, podcasting, for our third ‘report’. In this limited episode series, you will be able to hear the stories of woman at different career and life stages, from different sporting disciplines and sectors within the very large sports industry about their lived experience in the sporting sector.
Season 1 interviews are with women athletes, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, directors and more. The women we interview identify in many ways and represent the many intersectional communities that sport serves. You can tune in via all the usual podcast services or at our website.
Subscribe now to not miss an episode!