Venus Rising: Recent Episodes
Kallie Fell
Venus Rising builds on the work of the Center for Bioethics and Culture in the space of fertility, infertility, high-tech baby making and women's reproductive health.
We sit down and chat with experts, authors, medical professionals, egg and sperm donors, as well as surrogates, and of course, women themselves, with their personal and often heart wrenching stories. Our guests include a wide-range of voices, even those we often have major disagreements with in the spirit of public conversation, robust discussion, education, and always, trying to challenge us all to think beyond the masses.
Today I am thrilled to virtually sit down with writer, feminist and freelance journalist Milli Hill. Milli is the author of bestselling Positive Birth Book (2017), Give Birth like a Feminist (2019) and a book for pre-teen girls, titled My Period (2021). From 2012 to 2021 she founded and ran the Positive Birth Movement, a global network of antenatal discussion groups aimed at improving birth and giving women better access to support and information.
As a journalist since 2013 Milli has written for many publications including Telegraph, Guardian, Independent, Mother&Baby, to name a few, and she has appeared on BBC Radio talkradio, LBC and many other leading podcasts. In recent times Milli has become interested in ‘cancel culture’ and had her own experiences of this phenomenon. As you’ll hear on today’s show, Milli has a passion for reframing the narrative around women’s bodies and as a writer about female biology, she is curious about the current misinformation about sex and gender and the implications of shifts in word definitions for women’s rights.
You can find Milli and her work at https://www.millihill.co.uk
Twitter @millihill
Instagram @milli.hill
Abel Garcia joins us on Venus Rising to share his story as a male detransitioner. Abel changed his name, took estrogen, and went under the knife for "top" surgery. Facing many roadblocks, Abel has worked hard to detransition and is now sharing his story with hopes to help minimize the number of people who will be harmed by the claim that it is possible to change sex.
Abel is active on Instagram, twitter and YouTube under the handle @officialabelg.
Earlier this year, a woman named Jennie reached out to us with the hopes of warning others before they, like her, are swept up in the assisted reproduction vortex. Jennie and her husband spent seven years facing the heartbreak of infertility before their son was born at the very beginning of the global pandemic in March of 2020. Jennie and her husband went through 3 grueling rounds of IUIs and 1 round of IVF in order to conceive their son and in hindsight, Jennie now realizes the moral and ethical compromises that she made, resulting in 29 frozen embryos. Jennie wishes that she would have been more educated on ethical ways to do IVF before jumping on the fertility rollercoaster, and while she is so thankful for her son, her and her husband are now faced with the ethical ramifications of having so many frozen embryos.
Today I have the pleasure of having freelance writer and journalist, Meghan Murphy on the show. Meghan has a master's degree in the department of Gender, Sexuality, and Women’s Studies at Simon Fraser University, and has been writing about feminism since 2010. Known for going against the grain, she was the first to publish a critique of Slutwalk, back in 2011, and was one of the only popular feminist bloggers to publicly articulate both a radical feminist and socialist position against the sex industry. Meghan’s critiques of third wave feminism, burlesque, self-objectification in selfies, gender identity politics, and choice feminism have brought both acclaim and attacks, but most of all recognition as a writer who isn’t afraid to say something different, despite what progressive and mainstream media deem to be the party line. Meghan has spoken around the world about the issue of gender identity legislation and women’s rights, including at the Canadian Senate and Scottish Parliament. Meghan was also featured in our documentary film Trans mission: What’s the Rush to Reassign Gender.
Most recently, Meghan is the is the founder and editor of Feminist Current, Canada’s leading feminist website where you can find a unique perspective on gender, women’s rights and many other issues that are often underrepresented or misrepresented by mainstream, progressive, and feminist media sources. Currently, Meghan is working on a book project of her own, which takes a critical look at third wave feminism. Today we talk with Meghan about her work and her views related to trans ideology and feminism.
Find Meghan here: https://meghanmurphy.ca
Find her work on Twitter:
@thesamedrugs_
@FeministCurrent
Find her on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq-04S1vzWPy3G8omi0wVvA
Venus Rising exists to challenge listeners to think beyond the masses, especially as it pertains to women’s health. It is with that goal in mind that today we welcome, Gerda, a 27-year-old woman from Poland, who started to identify as trans at the age of 14 and began the process of social transition at 19 and medical transition at 21. After 8 years of living as a transman, she came to the conclusion that the majority of her 'gender dysphoria' was a mixture of her psychological trauma and normal teen angst. Detransition helped her to change her life for the better and she’s here today to share her story.
Welcome back to another wonderful season of Venus Rising. Can you believe we are in season 4? This season starts off with a bang as we interview Genevieve Gluck, feminist essayist and co-founder of the pro-woman news and opinion site Reduxx. Prior to starting Reduxx, Genevieve has contributed work to Feminist Current and was published in the anthology Spinning and Weaving: Radical Feminist for the 21st Century. Genevieve hosts her own podcast called Women's Voices, which features interviews with women's rights activists, readings from feminist texts, and conversations about current events. Today we talk about her amazing new opinion site as well as the work she’s done to reveal the disturbing roots of transgender ideology. Please be aware that this content might be triggering for some listeners.
You can read more and sign up for her newsletter at reduxx.info. If you like to support pro-woman, pro-child safeguarding journalism you can purchase merchandise that does just that at https://reduxxmerch.info.
If you’ve been following our show for some time, you know we like to have guests from around the globe. Today we welcome a very special guest all the way from the United Kingdom, going by his Twitter handle TullipR. Tullip R is here to share his story as a male detransitioner. Fom the ages of 26 to 34 TullipR lived as a trans woman, including hormone therapy and full genital surgery in 2018. TullipR is active on twitter and in running the detrans males group that started just this year.
Follow our guest @TullipR on Twitter
Resources:
Llife Detransitions @LifeDetrans
@Genspect
Follow the host @KalFell to make sure not to miss a podcast
A few weeks ago, I received an email from a young woman that was exposed to the dangers and tragedy of the surrogacy industry as a young child. She shared with me her childhood story about the untimely passing of her mother from complications after a surrogate pregnancy. Now, as a young adult, Jaida lives in Orange County with her husband and is an undergraduate student studying Theology at Grand Canyon University. Graciously, Jaida agreed to come on Venus Rising to share her story with the masses. So, today we welcome Jaida as she gives an eyewitness account to her mother's surrogacy pregnancy, and the complications and loss that followed.
We have had the opportunity to talk with so many wonderful people this season and today is no exception. Today we welcome Rachel, a 31-year-old detransitioned lesbian woman, brave enough to share with us her deeply personal story. Rachel lived for 5 years as a transman, taking injectable testosterone, but stopped medical transition and ceased identifying as transgender. She became popular on Twitter for being outspoken about the long-term health effects of cross-sex hormones and transition-related surgeries and has done several interviews regarding the topic. Though she is no longer active on Twitter, you can find her on Medium under @habituallyfemme.
Wow! Today is our 50th episode on Venus Rising! To celebrate, Kallie sits down with best-selling author and award-winning academic, Dr. Kathleen Stock.
Dr. Stock is well-known in the United Kingdom and the United States for bravely recognizing the importance of biological sex. She regularly discusses and writes on gender identity ideology and its effects on women and girls. Until October 2021, Kathleen Stock was a Professor of Philosophy at University of Sussex, and was awarded an OBE for services to higher education in 2020. Today we talk with Dr. Stock about her exit from the University of Sussex, gender identity, and her best-selling book Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism.
You can follow Kathleen at @docstockk on twitter
You can read more of her wonderful writing on her website: https://kathleenstock.com
Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism is available on kindle and audible through Amazon and on the publishers website: https://www.littlebrown.co.uk/titles/kathleen-stock/material-girls/9780349726595/
Read Kara Dansky’s Piece Witch Trials Within the Academy: https://www.karadansky.com/read/witch-trials-within-the-academy
Today, we have a very special guest with us, all the way from Sydney Australia, Edward Saulig. Edward brings a voice to Venus Rising that we haven’t yet heard, the voice of a sperm donor.
In his day to day life, Edward works as a town planner for the local government in Sydney, Australia. Part of his work is creating new neighbourhood parks in established areas. He has successfully created a new park dedicated to each of his offspring from sperm donation; he hopes to one day push each of his offspring in those very swings. Join us as he shares his very personal story.
Watch our film Anonymous Father's Day free on Youtube!
Today, we have a very special guest with us, Katy Francisco. Her name might sound a little familiar to some listeners as her brother, Matt Doran, was a special guest on our show in Season 1. Like her brother, Katy was born from donor conception and has been an advocate for the donor conceived community by sharing her story and supporting restorative reproductive medicine. Katy served 6 years as Operations Manager for CanaVox, the marriage and family project of the Witherspoon Institute, and 3 years for the International Institute for Restorative Reproductive Medicine as secretariat.
Read Katy’s Story Here: https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/01/59169/
Listen to her brother, Matt’s, interview on Venus Rising.
To find out more information on restorative reproductive medicine visit: Iirrm.org
Listen to Dr. Naomi Whittaker or Dr. Susan Caldwell, both physicians practicing restorative reproductive medicine, on Venus Rising!
Support for the Donor Conceived Community:
Anonymousus.org
Wearedonorconceived.com
Donorchildren.org
Today we welcome Libby Emmons, Editor-in-chief for The Post Millennial to the show. Libby holds a Masters of Fine Arts from Columbia University and a Bachelor of Arts from Sarah Lawrence College. Before Libby became a journalist, she was in the world of theater. In this episode we talk with Libby about her shift from playwright to editor and why good debate and conversation around contriversial topics is rare, often resulting in cancel culture. You can find Libby’s work published in many different outlets including Quillette, Spectator, New York Post, The Federalist, just to name a few.
Come see Libby and more amazing women at our event in NYC on March 16th where we will discuss the challenges facing women today to provide true Equality and Empowerment for women and children.
Follow Libby on twitter with the handle @libbyemmons
Read Libby’s review of Trans Mission: What’s the Rush to Reassign Gender here: https://thepostmillennial.com/trans-mission-exposes-the-fallacy-of-the-gender-transition-narrative
Venus Rising welcomes Lexi with Stop Surrogacy Now UK. Stop Surrogacy Now is a global campaign that brings together a worldwide, ethnically, religiously, and culturally diverse group opposed to the exploitation of women and the human trafficking of children through surrogacy. You can find more and join this global campaign at stopsurrogacynow.com. Stop Surrogacy Now UK was formed by a group of women who were and still are concerned about the proposals the UK Law Commission put forward in its 2019 consultation to reform UK law. Stop Surrogacy Now UK aims to raise awareness of the truth of surrogacy and challenge the erosion of language through media spin and raise up the voices of women and children heard when it comes to the laws that concern them.
You can find and follow Stop Surrogacy Now UK on Twitter with the handle @WombsNotForRent
In this episode of Venus Rising we shift from our normal programming to bring you an interview between Jennifer Lahl, CBC Founder and President, and surrogate mother, Kimberly. Kimberly sits down with Jennifer to share her horrific surrogacy story where she was left fighting for custody of her own biological child. The baby Kimberly gave birth to as part of a gestational surrogacy arrangement was her own child, and not the baby for a Chinese couple who hired her. Surrogacy in China is still illegal and unfortunately Kimberly is not the only mother that has experienced this preventable tragedy. To protect her privacy, Kimberly is using an alias.
You can also watch this interview on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er2OjZmINCI&t=8s
We are kicking off the New Year with another wonderful episode of Venus Rising featuring researcher, author and professor Dr. Theresa Morris! Theresa Morris, Ph.D. is Professor of Sociology and Women’s and Gender Studies as well as the Coordinator of the Women’s and Gender Studies Program at Texas A&M University. When she’s not busy teaching undergraduate and graduate students, Dr. Morris also conducts research on gender, reproduction, and birth. Her first book, Cut It Out: The C-Section Epidemic in America (NYU Press 2013), examining the exponential increase in c-sections in the United States, was positively reviewed in several venues, including the New York Times, and her second book, Health Care in Crisis: Hospitals, Nurses, and the Consequences of Policy Change (NYU Press 2018), received an Honorable Mention for the 2019 Adele E. Clarke Book Award. Today we talk with Dr. Morris about her research, her books, and teaching college students in the twenty first century.
Today we welcome attorney, public speaker, writer, and consultant, Kara Dansky. Kara has an extensive background in criminal justice law and policy and is unabashedly committed to protecting the rights, privacy, and safety of women and girls on the basis of sex in law and throughout society. Kara currently serves on the steering committee of the U.S. chapter of the Women's Human Rights Campaign (WHRC), which seeks to promote the Declaration on Women's Sex-Based Rights and also serves as the Chair of the Committee on Law and Legislation for WHRC globally. Most recently, Kara has a new book out titled The Abolition of Sex: How the "Transgender" Agenda Harms Women and Girls.
Follow Kara on Twitter @Kdansky
Find Kara online: https://www.karadansky.com
Read & Sign the Declaration on Women's Sex-Based Rights: https://www.womensdeclaration.com
Deck the Halls of Congress by donating to the US chapter of WHRC: https://womensdeclarationusa.com/deck-the-halls/
Today on Venus Rising I sit down with reproductive science research expert, author, academic and educator Joyce Harper, BSc, PhD. Currently Dr. Harper is Professor of Reproductive Science at University College London in the Institute for Women’s Health where she is Head of the Reproductive Science and Society Group. She is a Director of the Embryology and PGD Academy and founder of Global Women Connected.
Dr. Harper has over 33 years of experience in the fields of fertility, genetics and reproductive science. In fact, she was finishing her PhD just nine years after Louise Brown was born! She has written over 200 scientific papers and published three books, her latest titled Your Fertile Years, What you need to know to make informed choices. Dr. Harper started her career as an embryologist, then moved into reproductive science and genetics, now she is researching fertility education, FemTech, and the social aspects of infertility treatment including donation and IVF add-ons. This is truly an episode you won’t want to miss! It’s not every day that you get to hear from a woman as passionate and knowledgeable as Dr. Harper on topics like women’s fertility, women’s health education, IVF and the marketing of IVF add-ons such as preimplantation genetic testing.
Find out more about Dr. Joyce Harper at www.joyceharper.com
Follow her on Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn: @ProfJoyceHarper
Read more about Global Women Connected: www.globalwomenconnected.com
Watch this weeks episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/eqpoq6dB2zg
Welcome back! Today I am thrilled to host award winning independent journalist and author, Jennifer Block. I have the opportunity to talk with Jennifer about women's health, gender, the conflict of interest found in medicine, and her newest book Everything Below The Waist: Why Health Care Needs a Feminist Revolution(St. Martin's Press). You might have read her other publications in The BMJ, New York Times, Romper, Washington Post Magazine, The Baffler, and in many other outlets. Her first book, Pushed, led a wave of attention to the national crisis in maternity care and was named a "Best Book of 2007" by Kirkus Reviews. A reporter with Type Investigations, Block won several awards for her investigative reporting on the permanent contraceptive implant Essure, which has since been discontinued. You can find Jennifer and her work at Jenniferblock.com or on Twitter @wrtitingblock.
Welcome back to another interesting episode of Venus Rising. This week I have the pleasure of chatting with a young freelance writer and literary scholar, Donovan Cleckley.
Donovan holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in English and Interdisciplinary Studies from the University of Montevallo and a Master of Arts in English from Tulane University. His research focuses on the relationship between women’s rights and gay rights, literature and sexual politics, and the social and political implications of transgenderism as an ideology, an industry, and an institution. Today, I talk with Donovan about the crossroads of his research and passion and the debate concerning the medical transitioning of children, which we also explore in our recent documentary Trans Mission: What's the Rush to Reassign Gender?
You can learn more about his work at https://donovancleckley.com or join him in discussion by following him on Twitter.
Today’s guest is Jasmine Esmay, a Registered Nurse Certified in Inpatient Obstetrics with over 20 years of frontline healthcare experience. Jasmine is also a Certified Lactation Counselor and an Internationally Board Certified Lactation Consultant.
Jasmine believes that lifelong health and strong family relationships start with pregnancy and birth. Families today face almost insurmountable struggles when it comes to navigating the healthcare system, juggling the demands of a new baby with no paid parental leave, and the lack of postpartum and breastfeeding support. These struggles show in maternal and infant mortality rates, infant feeding outcomes, and increasing rates of postpartum depression. All things we discuss on today’s episode.
Jasmine currently works to change birth culture by offering continuing education to healthcare providers through her consulting business “Tongass Lactation Consulting, LLC” and serving on the United States Lactation Association Advisory Board. She is the current President of The Alaska Breastfeeding Coalition. Join us as Kallie chats with Jasmine about the current state of maternal fetal healthcare and what can be done to help women and families succeed in a time where we clearly are failing women.
Find Jasmine at www.tongasslactation.com. Find more about Kathleen Kendall-Tackett, whose work is referenced in the podcast, at https://www.kathleenkendall-tackett.com
This week’s episode is also available for viewing on our YouTube channel.
On today's episode of Venus Rising, I sit down with the fearless advocate, Toni Bare.
In 2016 Toni agreed to be a gestational surrogate for a couple with hopes that she would make enough money to pay for her own fertility treatment. Toni’s experience as a surrogate mother was so horrific and harmful she has committed to publicly speaking out against surrogacy. Toni’s story is complex and painful, full of abuse, injustice, and personal trauma and I admire her strength as she shares it with me today.
You can read more about Toni's story here:https://www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/toni-barre-story
Join Toni by signing the Stop Surrogacy Now Petition: http://www.stopsurrogacynow.com/#sthash.MiyOBpDk.dpbs
Hello and welcome back to Venus Rising Season THREE!
I have so many wonderful guests lined up for this season, but before introducing someone new I decided to kick-off season three with someone you met last season, Alyssia Wood. I spoke with Alyssia about her experience as a surrogate mother in season 2, but only touched the tip of the iceberg. Today I talks more in-depth about Alyssia's experience as a surrogate mother and really focuses on her last pregnancy as a surrogate mother and what has transpired since the birth of that child and our last time speaking with Alyssia. Thank you for joining me!
Welcome back to this season’s final episode of Venus Rising. Today Kallie has a candid and informative talk with Brynne, one of the brave mothers featured in our newly released documentary “Trans Mission: What’s the Rush to Reassign Gender”.
At age 13, Brynne's daughter began suffering from "Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria” (ROGD), a poorly understood phenomena currently affecting hundreds of thousands of girls worldwide. ROGD is characterized by a sudden and severe rejection of a person’s biological sex and corresponding body parts in favor of an identity aligning with the opposite sex.
Brynne realized early on that the “experts” proposed solutions to her daughter’s dysphoria all seemed to lead down a pathway of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones with potentially irreversible consequences, and she worried her daughter might later regret these changes. She was surprised to discover that any questioning of this medical pathway is routinely met with hostility and aggression, so she stands bravely in the gap for parents and their children, insisting on asking important questions that are often forbidden discourse.
Brynne advocates for radical self-acceptance of peoples’ whole healthy bodies, diverse personality expressions, and the elimination of harmful gender stereotypes. She works with nonprofits that seek to raise funds for public education in regards to the harms and abuse trans-identifying people and their families suffer in the medical and mental health community.
Watch Trans Mission: What's the Rush to Reassign Gender on YouTube: https://youtu.be/rUeqEoARKOA
Need to contact Brynne or join a Facebook support group? Email her at gendercriticalhumans@gmail.com
Today I have the pleasure of sitting down with four-time surrogate mother, Alyssia Wood. Having wonderful pregnancy experiences with each of her four children, Alyssia felt that surrogacy was an obvious way for her to help others start or build their own families. She is here today to talk about her different experiences as a surrogate mother, which included two miscarriages, two premature deliveries, hyperemesis gravidarum, sepsis, a near hysterectomy, and a host of unexpected challenges she now encourages prospective surrogates to thoroughly research before signing a surrogacy contract.
We are so grateful for Alyssia's willingness to candidly discuss her experiences with us so that other women can make informed choices about their reproductive options. Be sure to subscribe to Venus Rising so you can stay updated on Alyssia's story!
If you are an aspiring labor and delivery nurse or nurse midwife or have ever wanted to chat with a nurse that works at an IVF clinic then today’s show is just for you. I am especially excited about this episode because I get to sit down with nursing colleague, Kelly Wilson. I had the opportunity of meeting and working with Kelly when I was fresh out of nursing school, several years ago. Kelly has been a nurse since 2010 and joined the ranks of labor and delivery nurses in 2013. In 2019 she started working as a fertility nurse while she pursues her degree in nurse midwifery. Kelly has finished her clinical training and is excitedly graduating very soon! She lives in Ohio with her husband and two adorable sons.
Welcome back to Venus Rising! With me today is Dr. Susan Caldwell, a primary care physician specializing in women’s health practicing in New Orleans, Louisiana.
Today we tackle an emotionally sensitive topic, especially as we approach Mother's Day- infertility and IVF. Dr. Caldwell has three children of her own, all of whom were conceived through IVF. Today she explains why, in retrospect, she would not recommend IVF as a solution to infertility and why, in her expert opinion, naprotechnology is a much better pathway for couples struggling to conceive. Dr. Caldwell is able to navigate this difficult subject through a lens of both empathy and immense knowledge. Her insight is invaluable to the broader conversation.
Dr. Caldwell received her medical degree from Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center where she also completed her residency in Internal Medicine and Pediatrics. In 2016 she became a Certified Naprotechnology Medical Consultant. She enjoys writing and speaking about authentic femininity and reproductive health that upholds the dignity of all human life. She blogs about topics in women’s health at drsusancaldwell.com.
Welcome back to Venus Rising! One of the main commodities in the ever-growing infertility industry is human eggs. Young women all over the world are targeted by ads to "donate" their eggs. Who are these women and what are the risks to their health?
In this episode I have the opportunity to talk with Kylee Kwiatkowski about her harrowing story of egg "donation" and the aftermath that followed this life-altering decision. If you are considering "donating" your eggs or are dealing with health effects after egg "donation", this is an episode you won't want to miss!
You can read about Kylee's story online at: https://www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/kylee-kwiatkowski-s-story
Kylee was also featured in our award-winning documentary Eggsploitation. You can watch it on Amazon Prime here: https://amzn.to/2Q3NelW
In the early 2000s, Liz Scheier’s mom was facing eviction, so Liz, like many young women, turned to egg donation to raise funds to escape financial crisis. Over the next several years, Liz underwent a total of three rounds of egg retrieval.
In the years since, Liz has spent a significant amount of time analyzing the situation and asking important ethical questions related to it. She sits on the leadership team of We Are Egg Donors (WAED), a volunteer-run global support network for over 2,000 current and former egg donors across the world. WAED is regularly featured in media outlets including The New York Times, The Atlantic, NBC, WIRED, and others. As media liaison for WAED, Liz speaks frequently with journalists about the experiences of egg donors, the ethical issues involved in anonymous gamete donation, and the urgent need for a long-term longitudinal study of the effects of egg donation on women's health.
She is an author, editor, and product developer living in Washington, DC with her husband and two children, and we are honored to have her joining us on Venus Rising today.
Welcome back to an informative new episode of Venus Rising! This week Kallie sits down with Wendy Kramer, Co-Founder and Director of the Donor Sibling Registry (DSR), a network of over 72,000 members worldwide, united by their shared experience as individuals conceived as a result of egg, sperm, or embryo donation and their mutual desire to be connected with others who share their genetic ties.
Wendy launched the DSR in an effort to help bridge some of the ancestral gaps for her own son Ryan, who was conceived via sperm donation. A prolific speaker and writer, Wendy is a tireless advocate for the donor-conceived community and a strong proponent of regulations that prioritize the needs of the children born of third party reproductive arrangements.
We are so pleased to have her with us today.
You will not want to miss this week’s episode of Venus Rising, as Kallie sits down with award winning author and writer Pamela Mahoney Tsigdinos for a frank discussion on a painful topic: infertility.
Pamela’s book Silent Sorority, became the first account of reconciling infertility that was not written by a mother. With raw honesty Pamela drew from her experience to explore the stigma associated with fertility issues and the complex effects of living involuntarily childless.
Through her research and writing, Pamela was introduced to a vibrant community of IVF survivors. Her followup ebook, Finally Heard, gives voice to a large but seldom acknowledged population of women reconciling the trauma of failed fertility treatments. Her writing raises provocative, often uncomfortable questions usually reserved for late night reflection or anonymous blogging.
Pamela has authored many other publications and you can view hew work in a variety of media outlets including Marie Claire, Huffington Post, TIME, Redbook, and Fertility and Sterility. Pamela was the co-founder of ReproTechTruths.org, a grassroots initiative to provide a counter-programming platform for women to share the long-lasting impacts of failed IVF. She was named a Top 10 Health blogger by Time Inc.’s Health Magazine in July 2015. To date, Pamela continues to write and serve on several cross-discipline working groups monitoring assisted reproductive technologies. We are thrilled to have her joining us today on Venus Rising.
This week on Venus Rising, Kallie sits down with Isabella Malbin, founder of Whose Body Is It?
Isabella is a self-described radical birth keeper, hypnotist, and radical feminist. In 2020, she was kicked out of a fertility awareness teacher training program for using the words “woman” and “mother,” which were deemed “trans-exclusionary.” Since then, she’s become passionate about illuminating the harms of trans ideology, especially in regard to its impact on women.
In today’s episode, Kallie and Isabella explore the links between surrogacy, porn, prostitution, and transgenderism and how they all work in tandem to prop up #BigFertility.
In addition to serving pregnant women in her community, she leads an 8-week educational series for women questioning the ethics of trans ideology, prostitution, pornography and surrogacy and runs a private virtual gender-critical community where women connect, conspire & enact change.
Find Isabella at:
whosebodyisit.com
Instagram @whosebodyisit
Maggie was a young, bright-eyed college student when she was first recruited as an egg donor. She eagerly signed up to donate her eggs with plans of helping families while earning some money for her future. Instead, she got stage 4 invasive ductal carcinoma, a diagnosis she is certain she acquired as a result of multiple rounds of egg donation. Her painful experience was documented in our 2015 documentary “Maggie’s Story.”
After battling cancer and the completion of chemotherapy, Maggie returned to school to obtain a masters degree in relational counseling, and her focus is working with clients diagnosed with cancer and other illnesses. This June, she will celebrate five years of remission.
Today, we are pleased to welcome Maggie and her parents to Venus Rising as we revisit her story and continue an important conversation about the hidden dangers of the fertility industry.
Watch "Maggie's Story" on Amazon here:
https://amzn.to/2K7Svou
In today's culture of echo chambers and censorship, at the CBC, we remain fiercely committed to civil discourse as one of the precious few avenues to true and lasting change. It is in that spirit that we bring you this week's episode of Venus Rising.
Today, Kallie sits down with Valerie Landis, a fertility representative whose three time personal experience with egg freezing has fueled her passion for educating others about fertility preservation and family planning. Valerie speaks openly about her own experience. She created the educational website eggsperience.com and runs the Eggology podcast. She showcases her experience in the upcoming video docu-series film called, This Is Egg Freezing.
Though we disagree pretty thoroughly with Valerie on matters like the health risks of egg freezing and the human rights implications for both women and children as they relate to surrogacy and third party reproduction as a whole, we are grateful for her willingness to share her perspective with us in our mutual attempt to bring much needed education in matters too often ignored by the general public.
To listen to Valerie's Eggolgy podcast click here: https://eggologyclub.com
More about This is Egg Freezing can be found here: https://thisiseggfreezing.com
You can follow Valerie on social media through: https://shor.by/valeriedlandis
We're kicking off the new year with an exciting new episode of Venus Rising!
Join us as we sit down with Gail Pascoe, an Australian woman who has spent the last six years researching the cash-driven sperm donation industry and the many ways it is failing donor-conceived children.
Gail's interest in the subject began when she made what she considers the appalling discovery that her own daughter, conceived with the help of a US based sperm donor, has over 100 siblings. Since that time, Gail has worked tirelessly to shed light on the bioethical issues too many ignore in third party reproductive efforts, especially as they relate to the needs of the children born of these arrangements. Her quest to help others avoid similar pitfalls and achieve healthier outcomes for children has led her to write a detailed end-to-end guide book, which is in the final stages of completion.
We are grateful for Gail's insight and front row perspective on a sensitive issue that affects thousands of people. You can follow her work at https://donorconceptionandbeyond.com.au/ and follow her on social media with the following links:
https://www.facebook.com/donorconceptionandbeyond and
https://www.instagram.com/donorconceptionandbeyond/
On today’s episode of Venus Rising, Jennifer sits down with Julia Derek, author of “Confessions of a Serial Egg Donor.”
When Julia moved from Sweden to New York City as a young adult, she found herself in need of an income source as she waited for her green card. That’s when she discovered egg donation, ultimately undergoing twelve rounds in the span of four years.
In today’s episode, Jennifer speaks with Julia about her experience and why, in retrospect, she’s developed a much more cautionary approach to egg donation.
Ms. Derek is a prolific writer of mystery and fan fiction novels. When she’s not busy reading or writing, she spends her time whipping people into shape as a fitness trainer in New York City, You can follow her work at juliaderek.com or on Twitter @juliaderekNY.
This episode is for all of our film buffs out there! Today Jennifer interviews Barry Stevens, a Toronto documentary filmmaker and screenwriter. Barry won a drama Gemini award for The Diary of Evelyn Lau starring Sandra Oh in her first role, then switched to non-fiction, as a writer on the International Emmy-winning documentary, Gerrie and Louise.
One of our favorite films of Barry's, Offspring, is a detective story where Barry searches for his sperm donor. It was viewed in 61 countries, won a number of awards, and was nominated for an Emmy! For five years, he directed the acclaimed and CSA-winning series for History TV, War Story. His most recent film is The World’s Biggest Family, a movie addressing the problems with anonymous sperm donation. Barry is active in the donor-conceived communities, hoping to change laws regarding anonymity. Our paths first collided with Barry when Jennifer interviewed him for her film Anonymous Father’s Day. Today, Venus Rising sits down with Barry for another, more personal, intellectual and enlightening conversation around his films, sperm donation, and the donor conceived family. Grab some popcorn and enjoy!
Today Jennifer brings her dear friend, Karen Hoffman, on Venus Rising to talk about her personal journey with infertility. Karen has an international background, having lived and worked on three continents. She was born and raised in South Africa, where she earned her Bachelor’s degree University of Pretoria. Subsequently, Karen moved to London, where her infertility journey began, followed by her relocation to the San Francisco Bay Area in 2014. Karen now provides real estate solutions to local as well as international clientele. She is also the director of the San Mateo, California chapter of Polka Dot Powerhouse, an international networking organization for women. If you have a friend that is childless or struggling with infertility, we hope you find Karen's intimate story enlightening. If you and your partner are struggling with infertility, we see you and we feel with you. As women, we often find our value in our ability to conceive children, but Karen shows us that life and family are possible beyond infertility.
Are you struggling with infertility or gynecological issues such as PCOS or endometriosis? Do you feel like typical infertility treatments are failing women and couples? Are you interested in freezing your eggs? Are you in the medical field or just interested in women's reproductive health? If so, today's episode is especially for you! Today we meet with Dr. Naomi Whittaker, a brilliant physician focused on women's restorative reproductive medicine, compassionate healthcare, and education.
Dr. Whittaker is a board certified OBGYN and a fellowship trained fertility surgeon who specializes in the Creighton Model FertilityCare System and NaProTechnology, which works cooperatively with a woman's body to treat the underlying cause of gynecologic issues and infertility. Dr. Whittaker helps women improve their gynecologic health, and avoid/achieve pregnancy in accordance with their natural fertility using the latest research, medicine, and surgery!
Dr. Whittaker earned her medical degree at Creighton University School of Medicine and completed her residency in OB/GYN at OSF Hospital in Peoria, IL. Dr. Whittaker is currently practices in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Women deserve better when it comes to fertility treatment. As one of Dr. Whittaker's Instagram post exclaims, "stop telling couples all roads lead to IVF". We agree. You can follow Dr. Whittaker on Instagram @napro_fertility_surgeon.
2020 has been deemed the year of the nurse and the midwife. For this reason, we couldn’t let 2020 come to an end without interviewing midwife and family nurse practitioner, MaryLou Singleton. MaryLou has practiced as a midwife for over 20 years, attending over 1000 planned homebirths in the Albuquerque area. She now runs an independent clinic, Enchanted Family Medicine, where she provides womb-to-tomb primary care for families wanting to make informed, autonomous health choices. MaryLou has sat on the board of directors for the Midwives Alliance of North America, the National Association of Certified Professional Midwives, and the Women's Liberation Front. MaryLou is a life-long advocate for the rights of women and children and we are honored that she chose to join us on Venus Rising.
Welcome back to Season 2 of Venus Rising! This season is full of special guests and personal stories you won’t want to miss, so subscribe today! Today, Jennifer talks with Alicia Gruber. Alicia, a mom of two and military wife, has experience as a surrogate mother and also runs multiple surrogacy support groups.
As you know, Venus Rising exists to help educate the masses, even when speaking to those who hold opposing views like Alicia's. Alicia's goal is to help educate and support people who are considering being a surrogate. Educating women is where our two paths cross and we hope you enjoy this interesting discussion. You can follow Alicia on IG @gruberalicia.
Jennifer Schneider, M.D., Ph.D., is a physician certified in Internal Medicine, Addiction Medicine and Pain Management. She is the author of 15 books and has published numerous articles in professional journals. Not only is Jennifer impressive academically, but she is also a loving mother. This is the intersection where the CBC and Dr. Schneider meets. Jennifer’s daughter, Jessica, is featured in our film Eggsploitation. Jessica tragically passed away just before her 32nd birthday from colon cancer. As a student at Stanford and Columbia, Jessica was persuaded to donate her eggs on three separate occasions. Now, Dr. Schneider worries about the welfare of other women who are egg donors. The fertility drugs used during Jessica’s egg donation cycles could have contributed to her cancer and early passing. Join us today as we talk with Dr. Schneider about her daughter’s legacy as well as her own work in exposing the lack of research on the long-term risks for egg donors. Like Dr. Schneider, we are concerned that there are many more women who have donated eggs and have suffered from an early cancer diagnosis.
You can read the important publication by Dr. Schneider, Jennifer Lahl and Wendy Kramer at: https://www.rbmojournal.com/article/S1472-6483(17)30048-2/abstract
You can find out more about Dr. Schneider at: http://www.jenniferschneider.com
You can visit Jessica’s Memorial Website at: www.jessicawing.com
Jessica's website, created by her, with links to some of her music: www.warmblooded.com
You can watch our documentaries Maggie’s Story and Eggsploitation free on Amazon Prime at: https://amzn.to/2K7Svou and https://amzn.to/2Q3NelW
Today on Venus Rising we have the opportunity to shine the spotlight on our founder and president, Jennifer Lahl. A few weeks ago, the wonderful women at The Free Birth Society invited Jennifer to speak on an episode of their show, The Free Birth Podcast. Jennifer sat down with Emilee Saldaya to discuss several different topics including the launch of the CBC, the deeply concerning language in surrogacy contracts, and the challenges she has faced as she tries to protect women. Emilee faced her own criticism when she put together a three-part series on surrogacy and she opens up about that as well. We are grateful for the generosity of the Free Birth Society in allowing us to bring this episode to our listeners at Venus Rising.
You can find The Free Birth Podcast here: https://www.freebirthsociety.com/blogs/the-free-birth-podcast
You can find each episode of the three part surrogacy series here:
Part 1 "To Buy a Baby, You Must First Rent a Woman": https://www.freebirthsociety.com/blogs/the-free-birth-podcast/to-buy-a-baby-you-must-first-rent-a-woman-with-marylou-singleton-surrogacy-series-part-1-of-3
Part 2: “Pain for the Childless Mother”: https://www.freebirthsociety.com/blogs/the-free-birth-podcast/pain-for-the-childless-mother-brianas-story-of-surrogacy-part-2-of-3
Part 3: “Consent Cannot be Purchased”: https://www.freebirthsociety.com/blogs/the-free-birth-podcast/what-makes-a-motherbaby-part-3-of-3-surrogacy-series
Watch #BigFertility on Amazon Prime: https://amzn.to/33ytpa3
As you shelter in place or quarantine yourself from friends and family, allow us to bring author and activist, Julie Bindel, into your living room for a powerful and inspiring discussion about her life’s work and passion.
Since she was just 17 years old, Julie has been active in the global campaign to end violence towards women and children. She has authored over 30 book chapters and reports on a range of topics relating violence and abuse of women and girls. She writes regularly for The Guardian newspaper, the New Statesman, Truthdig, the Sunday Telegraph and Standpoint magazines, and appears frequently on the BBC and Sky News. Julie is a co-founder of Justice for Women, an organization that supports and advocates on behalf of women who have fought back against violent men. Julie is also an original signer of the international StopSurrogacyNow campaign.
Join us today to find out what triggered Julie’s lifelong mission to end violence toward women and girls. Find out what gets her out of bed in the morning and keeps her up at night. Unite with us all as we fight to end the exploitation of women and girls.
Join Julie and thousands around the world by signing the http://www.stopsurrogacynow.com Campaign
Follow Julie on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bindelj
Follow David Challen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/David_Challen
Support Justice for Women: https://www.justiceforwomen.org.uk
Julie’s newest book is available for you on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Pimping-Prostitution-Abolishing-Work-Myth/dp/1349959464
Our guest today on Venus Rising is Scott Newgent. At the age of 43, Scott made the decision to medically transition from female to male. In 2017 Scott underwent phalloplasty which led to a massive pulmonary embolism. Scott nearly died of an infection which lasted 17 months.
During recovery Scott spent hours reading about transgender health, only to discover how little was known about the physical and psychological risks, as well as how woefully unregulated this area of medicine is for transgender people. Most shocking was the medical and pharmaceutical industry agenda to push children to transition.
As a parent, Scott works tirelessly at the state legislative level assisting lawmakers to write laws that will protect children from being allowed to medically transition. Most recently, Scott was involved in helping pass legislation in the State of Idaho that will not allow transgender girls to participate in school sports designated for biological females.
Scott says, “I can’t be called transphobic, I am transgender, but medically transitioning children is criminal. There is nothing to debate. It’s wrong on every level.”
Follow Scott on Facebook, Twitter and on the web:
@NewgentTGA
https://www.facebook.com/scottnewgent.72
https://www.transsexualglobalalliance.org/
If you’re a book worm, an aspiring writer, a feminist, or any combination, then this two-for-one episode is for you! Today we have the privilege of speaking with two radically brilliant women in one 45-minute episode. Susan Hawthorne and Renate Klein join Jennifer to talk about their journey creating and running an award-winning independent feminist press. Spinifex Press, founded in 1991, is an independent feminist book publisher, based in Australia, that publishes innovative and controversial feminist books with an optimistic edge.
Renate Klein, Ph.D., is a biologist and social scientist and long-term women's health researcher and has written extensively on reproductive technologies and feminist theory over the last thirty years. She was Associate Professor in Women's Studies at Deakin University in Melbourne and co-founder of FINRRAGE (Feminist International Network of Resistance to Reproductive and Genetic Engineering) and an original signatory to Stop Surrogacy Now.
Susan Hawthorne has her Ph.D., in Women’s Studies and Political Science from the University of Melbourne. Hawthorne’s award-winning writing includes poetry, fiction and non-fiction books. Her novel The Falling Woman was selected as one of The Australian’s Year’s Best Books (1992) and a Top Twenty Title in the Listener Women’s Book Festival. In 2015 she received the George Robertson Award for her services to the publishing industry.
We really hope you enjoy this interview from Down Under!
Link to Spinifex Press: http://www.spinifexpress.com.au
Link to Radically Speaking: Feminism Reclaimed: http://www.spinifexpress.com.au/Bookstore/book/id=131/
Link to Surrogacy: A Human Rights Violation: http://www.spinifexpress.com.au/Bookstore/book/id=301/
Link to Broken Bonds: http://www.spinifexpress.com.au/Bookstore/book/id=315/
On Venus Rising we talk a lot about surrogacy, but we haven’t brought you a real, honest interview with a woman who’s living the life of a surrogate. All of that changes today. ‘Lynn’, whose name has been changed to protect her identity, sits down with Jennifer for an authentic discussion about her ongoing experience as a commercial gestational surrogate. What started as a desire to help others has morphed into an experience that has risked her health and left her with worry.
We share her story because we know the risks, we know the dangers, and we know that many more ‘Lynn’s’ exist. We want to give them all a voice and an opportunity to share their story.
UPDATE: Since recording this episode, "Lynn" had an anatomy scan which showed the baby is on track at 20 weeks.When she is 35 weeks into the pregnancy she will move 5 hours away from home to deliver in a larger and better equipped hospital.
Today on Venous Rising Jennifer speaks with a Ph.D. candidate who is researching female body sex dolls and robots. Specifically, how men conceptualize these products and the implications of this kind of technology for women. Allow us to introduce you to a very influential activist and write, Ms. Caitlin Roper.
Ms. Roper is also very active in campaigning against the sexual exploitation of women and girls. Caitlin is the campaign manager for Collective Shout, she serves on the committee of Reclaim the Night, and is a founding member and chair of Adopt Nordic Western Australian Project. You can find her writings on ABC, the Guardian, Huffington Post, and the Sydney Morning Herold.
On this episode of Venous Rising, Caitlin speaks about her research, shares the current victories and future challenges at Collective Shout, and illuminates the parallels between pornography (the commercializing of sexuality) and surrogacy (the commercializing of reproduction).
I hope you allow her to inspire and empower you to begin speaking out against the exploitation of women and girls!
You can find out more about Collective Shout and support their work at:
www.collectiveshout.org
https://www.facebook.com/collectiveshout/
https://twitter.com/CollectiveShout
We are overjoyed to finally introduce our next guest on Venus Rising, Nick Isel. At age 15, Nick learned that he and his sister were donor conceived. Nick is one of 215 babies known infamously as “Nobel babies”; products of eugenicist Robert Graham’s Repository for Germinal Choice, a California-based sperm bank known as “The Nobel Bank”, claiming to only to accept “genius” sperm specimens.
Nick Isel was featured prominently in the book Genius Factory as a teenager under the pseudonym "Tom Legare". The author "David Plotz" interviewed him about his experiences growing up as a progeny of the Repository for Germinal Choice. Nick has also been featured in Esquire magazine, NPR Snap Judgement, "This is Life with Lisa Ling", and a short documentary titled The Need to Know.
Importantly, now, Nick is an advocate for the rights of the "Donor-Conceived" community and recently filed a citizen's petition to the US FDA regarding ending "Donor Anonymity" for sperm/egg donation establishments and increasing regulations and oversight. Specifically, Nick, wants donor- conceived children to have access to medical information, including plausible genetic diseases. This petition is still under review and is available for your comment here: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FDA-2016-P-2955-0087 . Today we get the unique opportunity to talk candidly with Nick about his advocacy work and this important petition he authored.
Citizen’s Petition: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FDA-2016-P-2955-0087
IMDB Page: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm8749966/
Genius Factory is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Genius-Factory-Curious-History-Nobel/dp/0812970527
Genius Factory Trailer: https://www.cbc.ca/documentarychannel/docs/genius-factory
The Need to Know Full-Length Video: https://vimeo.com/331831472
Today we travel to Canada to speak with Alison Motluk, a Toronto-based journalist with a special interest in reproductive technology. Alison writes on a broad category of topics and issues, but today we talk to her about third-party reproduction and the changes in Canada's Human Reproduction Act. Alison’s written in publications such as New Scientist, The Economist and the Globe and Mail. Alison also has a weekly email newsletter called HeyReprotech. You can sign up for her newsletter here: https://heyreprotech.substack.com.
Happy New Year! We are jump starting this year with an eye-opening and powerful
interview about freezing eggs and egg banking. For the first time, Jennifer sits down with Crystal Schnurr, a women who decided to freeze her own eggs for later use. Please join us as Crystal opens up with Venus Rising and tells us about her journey of freezing her own eggs.
We have a very special guest with us today! Matt Doran bravely shares with us his very personal story of growing up and finding out that he was a ‘donor’ conceived human being. Matt is both an aerospace mechanical engineer as well as an advocate against donor conception. Matt created and founded the first free worldwide social network for ‘donor’ conceived people, sperm/egg/embryo/surrogate ‘donors’, and social parents of ‘donor’ conceived people. His mission is to help connect biological families and offer support to other ‘donor’ conceived people so that they can create a demographic body that will create legislative change. You can find more about his foundation at DonorChildren.com.
Kallie Fell returns to Venus Rising as our guest to discuss her work and involvement at the Center for Bioethics and Culture. As you may know from her first guest appearance, Kallie started her professional career as a research assistant at the Women’s Reproductive Health Research Center at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Kallie has since switched careers, but is still very passionate about women's health. She currently works as a labor and delivery nurse in the Bay Area. At the CBC, Kallie does important work reading, researching, interpreting, and analyzing new articles and studies pertaining to third party reproduction.
Listen to Kallie's first guest appearance on Venus Rising here:
https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/venusrising/episodes/2019-10-17T22_00_00-07_00
Learn more about Kallie here:
http://www.cbc-network.org/about/staff/
In this episode, Jennifer Lahl has the privilege to sit down with lawyer, public advocate and award-winning author, Wesley J. Smith. Wesley Smith has authored or co-authored numerous books and has written hundreds of articles on bioethical issues and the importance of being human (human exceptionalism). His writing has appeared nationally and internationally in Newsweek, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, the Weekly Standard, National Review, The Age (Australia), The Telegraph (United Kingdom), Western Journal of Medicine, and the American Journal of Bioethics. Wesley Smith currently serves as a Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center on Human Exceptionalism. Mr. Smith has had guest appearances national programs such as Good Morning America and Nightline, as well as internationally on BBC Radio 4. We are thrilled that Mr. Smith decided to join us on Venus Rising and we hope that you at home enjoy this episode.
Abbreviated Bibliography:
No Contest: Corporate Lawyers and the Perversion of Justice in America,
Forced Exit: The Slippery Slope from Assisted Suicide to Legalized Murder,
Forced Exit: Euthanasia, Assisted Suicide, and the New Duty to Die,
Culture of Death: The Assault on Medical Ethics in America,
Power Over Pain,
Consumer’s Guide to a Brave New World,
A Rat is a Pig is a Dog is a Boy: The Human Cost of the Animal Rights Movement,
The War on Humans,
Culture of Death: The Age of "Do Harm" Medicine
Today we speak with cultural and medical anthropologist, Diane Tober. Dr. Tober is an Assistant Adjunct Professor at the University of California, San Francisco Institute for Health and Aging and faculty at the Bixby Center for Reproductive Health. Her work and research is focused on gender and sexuality, the commodification of the body, science and technology studies, bioethics, and social and reproductive justice. With funding from the National Science Foundation, she is, and has been, comparing egg donation in the United States and Spain. She has conducted field research in Iran, Spain, and the United States. Join us as we sit down with Dr. Tober to discuss her research exploring egg donors’ decisions and experiences within the global market for human eggs.
To find out more about Dr. Tober, her research, or her new book Romancing the Sperm: Shifting Biopolitics and the Making of Modern Families please visit her website: http://dianetober.com.
On this episode of Venus Rising, we sit down with our own, Kallie Fell a Bay Area labor and delivery nurse, to discuss the very basics of women's reproductive physiology. Before she was a nurse, Kallie was a scientist in the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Vanderbilt University utilizing a M.S. degree in Reproductive Physiology from Purdue University. While assisting in the investigation of endometriosis and pre-term birth, she decided that she wanted to interact more with women in a clinical role and went back to school to become a registered nurse. In this episode, we catch a glimpse of how passionate Kallie is for women's health education.
Today we travel across the pond to talk to England's own, Gary Powell. Gary is a LGB activist, public administration campaigner, and an original signer of the Stop Surrogacy Now statement. Gary was tutored in Philosophy by the Rt Hon Baroness Mary Warnock, a specialist in reproductive ethics whose inquiry led to the UK Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990. Join us as we find out why, as a gay man, Gary opposes surrogacy.
Our guest today is Taina Bien-Aimé, who is the Executive Director of the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. She was a founding member of Equality Now. Ms.Bien-Aimé has dedicated her career to end violence and discrimination against women and girls around the world. On this episode she discusses with Jennifer Lahl, her organization's work to stop a bill, The Child-Parent Security Act, which would legalize commercial surrogacy in New York State.
We have incredible educational guests lined up for you, like the influential Gary Powell; Taina Bien-Amie, Executive Director of the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women; and Dr. Diane Tober, Medical Anthropologist and author. We will also be welcoming back some of our most influential surrogates and donor conceived persons to share their first-hand experiences as not only donors but the result of someone’s choice to donate. Our goal is as ever – to create conversation, facilitate discussion and encourage you to think beyond the masses.