Get JACKED - By Jack & Big Jack: Recent Episodes
Jack De'Laney
Entertaining conversations and topics such as Lifting, Lifestyle, business, Side hustles, Money and what ever else I want to talk about. Jack and Big Jack share impactful stories to make you THINK and CHALLENGE who you are and what you are doing in and out of the gym.
Need help in powerlifing or rehabbing your shoulders or lower back?
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/ (link to enquiry form is in bio)
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
Any cannabis smokers out there? Of course there are.
Do you want to engage in a conversation around politics? You say no now, Then next minute you are bickering like the rest of us down a cul-de-sac with no through road.
What about the poverty in the US, have you seen San Fran?
This episode is wild, Enjoy.
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
What Supplements work?
In this episode we deep dive in to the world of supplements, which you need and which you don't.
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
Tyler Brooks - https://www.instagram.com/lift_dietetics/
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
Can you imagine the lifestyle of a MULTIPLE world, national, and state record holder, IFBB pro?
You probably thought "Not fucking easy". And you would be correct.
If you don't know who Kerry Zejfert (try pronouncing that one) is then shame on you.
Mother of three, MULTIPLE world, national, and state record holder, IFBB pro. All with-in the last three years (not the children).
Not only that we discuss the pressures of competing has on her family, divorce, mental health.
This ones deep, buckle up.
A sign of great coaching and lifting is reviewing how you interpret an exercise.
Old beliefs might be holding you back from breaking through a plateau.
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
Our episode last week really shook things us. Suddenly everyone was happy to talk about their feelings, their dark past, their trauma. It really goes to show that showing our audience that we all suffer and have our own dirt swept under the carpet.
In this episode I (Jack) bring on my psychologist/Wizard Nat Hodges from outliers. After 14 weeks of self reflection, plenty of ups and downs, seeing the bottom of the bottle and battling back. I can say I am a changed man (not yet perfect but who is) with a MUCH clearer understanding of my emotions and why I behaved the way I did to myself, and others.
This one will make you think deep, I might add that smoking some of the funny stuff before hand would help this message sink deeper.
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
Do men not talk about their feelings OR do they not understand what they are feeling?
in this episode we have Luke Swanson joining us.
The boys discuss mental health. Why men don't talk about their feelings while opening up about their own experience with anxiety, depression, shame, and everything in between.
Keeping it light a breezy this week gang. But If you need a distraction while driving (lol), meal prep, the guy/girl you just met on tinder...This one hits the spot.
After finishing up a skin splitting leg sesh. We sit down to chat about our training, nutrition, personal lives and our recent holiday.
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
Don't be offended, we are all dummies to nutrition at some stage.
The big rig Tyler A.K.A Lift_dietetics came through to answer a few Q&A about the basics of dieting.
We are available for In personal & online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Sponsored by DamStrong, the training gear of champions: https://damstrong.com.au/
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
We are available for online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Sponsored by DamStrong, the training gear of champions: https://damstrong.com.au/
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
If you are easily offended, do not listen.
Just two blokes picking holes in today's society through humour and real talk.
Story time for all our athletes who competed at APL nationals this weekend. Blackdam Finally has a new world record holder, broken a host of national records, gold medals, silver medals, tears, the whole fucking lot.
Listen in, this is a good one.
Jack & Big Jack discuss different training modalities that you can implement in to your training that is not powerlifting specific, but can keep you strong, fit, and still building muscle until your return to the platform.
So you've had a few shit days of training, Jack and Big Jack chat about their mindset towards coaching from a personal and coaching standpoint.
LOTS TO LEARN HERE FOLKS.
This episode is all about ingesting the information and applying it IMMEDIATLEY.
Don't stick in your comfort zone, get out there and fucking dominate.
We are available for online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Sponsored by DamStrong, the training gear of champions: https://damstrong.com.au/
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
The power of goal setting, HUGE but often shrouded in anxiety of what could go wrong.
In this episode we breakdown how to remain focus on your lifting, personal and career goals. Our thoughts and processes are not conventional so chances are you have never thought of it this way.
We are available for online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Sponsored by DamStrong, the training gear of champions: https://damstrong.com.au/
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell
So someone shat their pants but still made it to the gym #commitment.
This weeks episode is a Q&A. But not just about lifting OBVS.
We are available for online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Sponsored by DamStrong, the training gear of champions: https://damstrong.com.au/
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
Peaking for powerlifting is vital for your success on meet day. What the Jack's teach you is how to structure your peaking block and tapering PLUS the right attitude you need to adopt if you are to be physically and mentally ready.
We are available for online coaching: shorturl.at/kvzAH
Sponsored by DamStrong, the training gear of champions: https://damstrong.com.au/
Follow us on Instagram:
Jack De'Laney: https://www.instagram.com/jack_fdelaney/
Jack Welch: https://www.instagram.com/_jackypoo/
Blackdam Barbell: https://www.instagram.com/blackdambarbell/
What Is the #no1 thing most men do wrong when trying to lose fat OR build muscle?
I hope you enjoy this episode.
If you are getting value from any of our podcasts, rate us first to get us in the charts and watch us GROW baby.
Welcome Back To Make Me Think.
It's been a tough time getting back to podcasting. New adventures, plugging gaps in my business and personal life, it feels like I am learning something new every month.
But you know what they say "When you fall off your horse, you get right back up and you eat that horse" #DBZABRIDGED
I'd also like to welcome my new Co-Host Big Jack. Let's just hope he doesn't burp the whole time.
It's backwards.
It's backwards that people will tell you to "fall in love with the process" vs the destination.
It's backwards that you struggle to deal with the inevitable "low cycle".
Here's what they don't tell you.
I don't know one person who enjoys their 9-5. Everyone would rather work for themselves.
In this episode I discuss why 2022 can be your most exciting and freeing year.
In this episode I talk about my gut feeling towards 2022 and why there are so many positives.
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Do you feel yourself falling on to the balls of your feet when squatting?
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May be some hip pain or lower back pain when pushing up?
Here's the answer - From the how, what, and the why.
Ever wondered how lifters can completely change the way the move and hit a new PR in just a few short months?
I like to call this the Domino Effect - One event initiating a succession of successful events.
Here is how you can completely change the way you move and become strong in what seems no time at all.
In this Episodes I go in to details about Bust-A-Nut competition with the Blackdam crew.
Plus a deep insight in to the mindset and preparation for novice lifters.
In this Episode I sit down to Jax (who has been on previous episodes) and discuss the complexity of goal setting and the "how to" of setting a goal and feeling confident you know you will achieve it.
This episode was inspired by "Self regulation through goal setting" which you can google and find under the scholar section, first listed PDF.
Topics covered are:
1. Group goals are superior to individual goals (team of two).
2. understanding Goal Difficulty
3. Specific goals show less variation in performance than people with vague goals:
4. Goal intensity: overcoming the fear of failure.
Enjoy, share on your social media pages and comment with any requests.
This is a longer Episode than normal, but so worth the listen.
Me and bails breakdown State titles 2021 where Blackdam were able to win 3 medals and break plenty of personal records.
In this episode I speak to one of Australia's best and well known Powerlifting coaches Thomas Lilley.
We discuss the following:
Stories from Thomas last 14 years of training.
How to program for elite level powerlifters.
Are elite lifters born or are they made?
The pressure of comp day for both lifter and coach.
Are you competitive by nature or do you vibe with the YoU vS yOu movement?
In this episode I break down why I believe you must find competition to succeed and why it healthy for you if you find what competitive string to pluck.
This information was taken from the study: https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1943&context=law_faculty_scholarship
How often do you write the perfect training program and train your A$$ off, yet you fall short of your expectations.
Chances are you are overlooking what you eat.
Aidan say's it perfectly "Macro thinking, Micro actions".
Why are you not getting stronger? Seriously, why are you not getting strong?
Is it your program? Maybe, but probably not.
Is it your form? It could be.
Are you consistent with your programming and diet? I think we're getting closer.
Are you comparing yourself to the strongest and trying to do what they ? There is a good chance this is happening.
In this Episode I go through my top 5 reasons (in no particular order) why you are not getting strong.
Be warned, the first two sound harsh.
In this episode I talk to one of the best powerlifters in Australia - Will Croz.
When we do stay on topic (lol) we discuss):
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Why being consistent is more important than having the best "plan" when dieting.
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Bench press technique/advice.
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General powerlifting chats.
In this Episode I discuss the importance of having a system to work with-in to guarantee new personal best's every time you compete.
Topics include:
- Building a wide foundation
- Future strength potential.
- The skill of strength training.
- Skill of absolute strength.
Requested by the drunken Barbell community.
In this episode I sit down with Luke Swanson.
Growing up as a "street kid"
Starting martial arts as a 16 year old to being in prison by the age of 24. Luke needed to find a way to turn his life around. No he helps athletes and young men reach their physical and mental potential.
As a %, how much of training is physical and how much is mental?
80/20?
90/10?
50/50?
No answer is wrong as it's down to the individual.
In this episode I go through my person experience and why I believe they are closer than some might think
In this Episode I explore conversations I have had with lifters and friends about their anxiety towards 2021.
This is from my personal experience and observation, everyone wants power and a feeling of control.
In a society where so many people worry about what is around the corner only the strong can be in control of where they stand at the end of 2021.
Pick up a pen and paper as this episode has practical tools for you to use to get clear on where the anxiety and stress comes from.
In this episode I answer the following questions:
- How do you deal with loss or failure.
- Did you study business before owning your gym?
- What's a good meal plan that's easy for me to follow.
- What are the benefits of using a belt when lifting heavy.
- How do you deal with injuries or niggles? Have had a back problem for a while now and massage/physio hasn't helped.
- What do you do to stay motivated to train?
- How do you motivate your lifters.
- If I wasn't in the powerlifting industry/ fitness, what would you be doing?
- What is something you need to work on personally?
- What have you learned in 2020?
- The favorite body part to train?
- The biggest tip for becoming stronger? Consistency.
- What is the difference between blackdam and every other gym?
- Favorite grime rapper?
In this episode I do a short review of 2020 and how proud I am of the Blackdam team.
I then answer a question about WHY I do what I do and what makes blackdam barbell so unique to every other gym.
Questions to message me after:
- Why do you do what you do? (training and career) .
- Asked me a question for next weeks Q&A to Wrap up 2020.
If you are a personal trainer, small business or someone who is chasing progress in your chosen career, this episode gives you a small insight in to what I have learnt in the every changing landscape of the fitness industry over the last 5 years.
The 5 topics I cover:
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How an accountant can save you thousands per year (and I am not just talking tax time).
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Why free information will never trump a great mentor. How they indirectly can boost your cashflow and results.
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Have a vision that YOU would buy in to.
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Define what success means to you and accept those who disagree.
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Why failure is your ally (especially in your first 2 years).
In this episode I sit down with Jaclyn Maginnins A.K.A Jax.
One of the founding members of HQ Coaching & Blackdam Barbell.
Jax discusses her time in powerlifting and how feeling strong helped her overcome crippling anxiety and self doubt. Listen to how she had a panic attack and cried in her car before her first training session.
We also talk about the physical and emotional benefits for women who decide to strength train/powerlift.
In this episode you have the privilege to meet two of the big boys from Blackdam, Jack and Jayden.
If you get butt hurt easily, might want to stick clear of this one.
It's hard to find a bigger bromance than these to. Think Will Ferrell and John Reilly from step brothers, only with anger issues.
We cover:
- Jack's last 2 years of training and taking his total from 270kg to 677.5kg.
- Why Jack's mental health was a catalyst in him starting to exercise.
- How he was able to add over 30kilos in bodyweight in 2 years, something most males struggle with).
- Jayden's last 12 months of training. Increasing his total from 470kg - 670kg.
- Jayden's philosophy on what makes a great training partner and how to behave at Blackdam.
- What's next for the two giants.
FINALLY, I was able to bring in a long term friend, coach and mentor El Hodges for an episode on the Drunken Barbell.
This is already one of my favourite podcasts to date. Are your prepared to be mind-f**ked and question the decisions you have made in your life? Good ;)
In this Episode myself and Nat chat over a couple of whiskeys and discuss his 5 ways to know your interpretation of life is working for you?
Topics include:
- Am I moving towards an end goal?
- Emotionally Regulation!
- Social Engagement !
- Are you physically healthy?
- where's the Meaning?
Make sure you are ready as this one is DEEEEEEP.
In This Episode I sit down with a legend of Australian powerlifting, Scott Wasson.
One of the First powerlifting gym owners in Brisbane, Dating back to his first gym located at Petrie in 2008.
Scott is responsible for helping hundreds if not thousands of men and women enter Powerlifting.
In This Episode We Discuss:
-What was it like training with the original PTC crew?
- Training for worlds in the US.
- Creating Valhalla, splitting away from PTC.
- Selling Valhalla to coach & create training equipment.
Keep your ears out as Scott drops a bomb-shell at some point in this Episode.
In this short 30 minute podcast I discuss why your hypertrophy training is the building block to your future strength potential.
You have to be clever about how to tackle your hypertrophy training. This is not your opportunity to be a dumbass and become a cowboy.
In this episode I discuss:
- Why you should only pick 1 - 2 muscle groups to target every 5 - 10 weeks of training.
- How you should be tracking your progress, that takes no more than 20 minute PER WEEK.
- Why hypertrophy is the perfect time to assess any of you structural imbalances or weaknesses.
- understand when to swap out exercises that don't work and how to identify the ones that you should keep in.
In this episode I speak I talk about my meaning of success and how it has changed over the years. How success for me personally and professionally seems to change each year.
Prepare to take notes and message me afterwards with what your meaning of success is.
Jack and Bailey discuss their performance at GCP Showdown 2020.
Bails placed 2nd in the U.90kg category and Jack slid in a cheeky 3rd in the U.100kg.
It's Blackdam Barbells 1st Birthday. What better way to celebrate than a trip down memory lane with Bailey.
On this episode we discuss the highs and lows of owning a powerlifting gym. Plus our highlight reel over the past 5 years together.
How many times do you think I had to tell bailey to talk in to the mic this Episode?
In this episode I discuss my approach to helping lifters discover their potential.
It's not through one conversation or initial "consult". EVERYTHING must remind the lifter what they are capable of.
I discuss method such as:
1. The rules of Blackdam Barbell.
2. The competition board.
3. Why a coach must discover his/her potential and vision first.
In this episode I sit down with Bails and run through our lifters performances at Civil Raw Powerlifting competition.
After picking up x5 podium places and the male and female best overall lifters there is a lot to be pleased about.
We discuss each lifters performance and our favourite moments including:
- Emma's nose bleed from squats.
- Anna's huge 170kg deadlift at 62kg BW
- Paul's best one liners.
Hilarious moments.
Episode 17 I bring back Bailey to talk with you about how to remain excited and focused post competition.
We discuss experiences of our own including where we have failed but also what we have learnt over the last 4 years of competing.
Topics includes:
1. Attitude and mindset of competitive lifters.
2. How to plan your next 8 - 12 months of training without becoming bored or going backwards.
3. Why patience is not practised enough by all lifters.
4. Personal stories from mine and baileys career, plus leading in to our competition in 5 weeks time.
In this Episode me and Nic discuss training standards we hold ourselves and our lifters to including:
- Why beginners shouldn't rush when strength training.
- Why beginners should not compare themselves to an advanced lifter.
- Training through injuries (Story about Nic needing surgery on both elbows).
- Why finding a gym the demands the best out of you will improve you performance and longevity.
And more.
In this episode I discuss four key area's you must not overlook if you are to maximise your potential at competition.
Physical.
Mental.
Lifestyle.
Week of & competition day.
Nothing should be left to chance.
In this episode I reflect on the last 5 years of coaching and owning a gym with Bails.
Bailey has been my right hand man as well as a founding member of HQ Coaching and Blackdam Barbell.
As the title explains, this episode is more of a drunken trip down memory lane including some personal stories and inside jokes.
Not one to miss.
In this episode I discuss the exercise and principles to building a stronger deadlift.
Have you missed a new Personal best because you can't lockout?
What about losing your upper back as soon as you pull from the floor?
Tune in for the next 40 minutes as I break down why you miss at each stage and how to apply the principles and exercises to break your current max.
In this episode we'll discuss the 3 principles to bench pressing and what exercises you need to pick in order to strength weak areas and build on your strengths.
What are the best exercises if you fail at the chest?
What about if you fail half way?
Is there much of a difference in exercise selection between half way and lockout?
I go in to detail on all three area's and break down what link in your chain could be missing.
Every coach has a different approach, ideas, methods, and ways of communicating how to build a big squat.
In this episodes I share with you some of the tips that I have learned over the years, the three basic principles of squatting and what exercises to select when targeting your strength and weaknesses.
In this Episode we talk about the impact exercise has on self esteem.
Self-esteem: set of beliefs about 'self'.
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How exercise has change my opinion of living with body hair and still feeling attractive.
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How has training impacted others self-esteem/Respect?
WHAT COULD YOU GET EXCITED ABOUT IN YOUR LIFE IF YOU CHANGED THE WAY YOU LOOK, THE WAY YOU FEEL AND WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT YOURSELF?
In this episode we discuss the attitude and questions a powerlifter should be asking themselves post competition.
How do you program you full year of training without needing to "switch it up" every month?
There is a way to look at your training and see the full year laid out.
Is there much difference between a powerlifter periodisation and new lifters?
Plus examples of how to plan your diet based on what your goals are.
In this episode we'll talk about commitment.
My understanding of commitment!
Where has/is the industry letting you down?
Where are you letting yourself down?
The 7 laws of commitment are:
**#1 Find your home base.
2 You better prepare for some uncomfortable moments and conversations.
3 Start as you mean to go on.
4 Find a great training team.
5 Small success equals big wins.
6 Expand your idea of what you are capable of.
7 Training isn't for soft cocks, if you want to make significant progress you better thicken your skin.**
In this episode I want to talk to you about Powerlifting.
Is it for everyone? No, I don't think so.
But it is for those who desire more from their training.
Speaking from personal experience, owning a Powerlifitng gym and taking plenty of lifters to competitions I cover:
**The difference between training for strength and powerlifting.
Benefits for people who begin with strength training.**
Why Powerlifting is a sport for everyone. **But not if you’re a soft cock.
Cons for those who rush in to powerlifting.
Why I believe all women should powerlift vs HIIT.
Couple of misconceptions when it comes to being a powerlifter.
My advice for you.**
Does gym culture make much of a difference to a clients progress?
In this Episode I talk quite controversially about why health clubs are ruining the industry in their own way.
Why Smaller, hardcore gyms like Blackdam need to stick to what they know.
A whole bunch of tips on how to get the most out of your gym to maximise your ROI.
A Live Q&A answering the following questions:
· Red wine, beer or spirits? Is it alcoholic, Then ima fucking drink it!
· When did you start growing a beard?
· How has training, life and the gym been going in covid?
· How do you deal with injuries.
· What do you think about people who lie about anabolic steroids?
· Where would you be if you didn’t get into the fitness industry?
· Out of all the sports available what attracted you to powerlifting?
· Is there value in cardio for powerlifting (general physical preparation, conditioning)?
· If you could model yourself off any leader in the would past or present who would it be and why?
· Why are some people such fuck wits? Like… it aint that hard, amiright?
· Is there an athlete that inspires you? Cristiano Ronaldo (his conditioning at the age of 35)
· I hear you love westside….
· How do you motivate your lifters who are not competing and don’t have any real strength goals? (I give them one, Training board, Gym board, AJ as an example).
· I keep hurting my lower back when deadlifting, any advice?
· Biggest regret in business? (No regrets, only learnings). I would like to go back to myself 2 years and give advice.
· What part of coaching do you enjoy vs dislike the most?
· What makes a good coach? (Opposite to Kobi mills)?
· Advice for someone who has just started at the gym but wants to get in to Powerlifting?
· How is bailey as a coach? Looking to start training with him?
· Best way to know if your training program was effective?
How the F do you find your rhythm after 2 months of little to no training.
In this Episode I talk about:
- The down concept and how you will apply it to your training.
- Practical application about how to begin your first couple of weeks back at the gym.
If you want to start with your best foot forward and regain your strength back FAST, don't miss this episode.
P.S I tried a new microphone in this episode so the audio quality if different. Still learning :)
I apologise for the terrible audio from this episode. The mic was not picking up much of my voice and I did not realise until editing but have done my best. The content and entertainment is still to the highest standard.
In this episode I talk about my experience with anabolic steroids over the last 5 years. Why I believe steroids are not evil but misunderstood and advice for those who are considering their first course.
I also breakdown some of the bullshit myths of anabolics such as testicle atrophy and "roid rage".
I would like to state that I am not a doctor or medical professional. This episode is not encouraging anyone to take anabolic steroids. If/when you chose to take anabolic steroids it is completely your choice.
In this episode, I speak about my highs and lows in powerlifting.
From my humble beginnings at a commercial gym to stumbling on a powerlifting gym that changed my approach to training forever.
I open up about the struggles of opening my own gym at the age of 23 with only 8 months experience in a flooded industry while trying to be a competitive athlete.
I also cover my training attitude, wins, loses, drug use and coaches that have had the biggest impact on me including big name like Nat Hodges, Ryan Mayfield and Thomas Lilley.
A short and entertaining introduction into my life growing up in England and why becoming a skinny-fat drunk got me in to exercise.
I explain what the goal for future podcast and it's listeners.