More Than This: Recent Episodes
David Hartman
We have conversations aimed to explore divisive issues while resisting reductionistic, simple conclusions.
This is the first of our Exit Interviews, our final series that will wrap up our show. Rachael Jones stops by to chat (in tandem with Brooke) about experiences of gender discrimination across various institutions.
What role should our gender and sexuality play in our overall sense of identity? Dave sits down with Dr. Julia Sadusky (https://www.juliasadusky.com), a psychologist, author, and speaker who works extensively in the areas of gender and sexuality.
Brooke and Dave talk about how to have conversations that build bridges with family members that may think differently than you.
Listener favorite, Daniel Silliman, stops by to talk with Dave about his new book that examines some bestsellers in Christian fiction.
Brooke and David talk with Elizabeth Ranade-Janis, a national leader in anti-trafficking policy. Listeners should note that while there are no graphic descriptions of trafficking activities, the content could still be triggering and/or upsetting to younger audiences.
Brooke and David sit down with Julia Pickerill to talk about what it looks like to be mentally healthy.
Have you ever noticed that you believe very negative things about yourself that have no bearing to reality? Brooke and Dave talk about impostor syndrome and the psychology behind internalized negative beliefs.
Brooke and Dave talk about one of Brooke's favorite topics - the idea of discussing faith. But how far do logical arguments and treatises take you when discussing faith?
Note: The theologian Brooke refers to is Dr. Ida Glaser, and you can find out more about her work here: https://www.cmcsoxford.org.uk/about-us/our-team/publications-ida-glaser
Jeanine Winfrey, an immigration lawyer from Vineyard Community Center, talks with Brooke and David about the realities of modern day immigration.
Brooke and Dave wrap up the Transitions series by talking about common transitions and disruptions in a life of faith.
How has the pandemic impacted women, in particular? Dave sits down to discuss these impacts with the women behind Pandemic Parenting, Lindsay Malloy and Amanda Zelechoski.
Check out a host of great resources and follow the work of Pandemic Parenting at:
https://www.pandemic-parent.org
Brooke and David discuss different philosophies for choosing careers and how their view of careers has changed over time.
Lathania Butler joins Brooke and Dave to talk about the idea of white silence as complicity in the perpetuation of racism. Lathania talks about the importance of narratives that we subscribe to and how these narratives are important to combat racism.
Check out Lathania’s podcast with former guest Stephanie Ranade Krider, So What Do We have?, at http://sowhatdowehave.buzzsprout.com/
This week we talk to Rob Brenneman and Brian Miller about their book, Building Faith: A Sociology of Religious Structures. We talk about the role of physical building in building and sustaining communities of faith.
You can find the book at either:
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/building-faith-9780190883447?cc=us⟨=en&
or
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0190883448/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_4pPuFbMQJGQM7
Find out more about Brian Miller at his blog: www.legallysociable.com | blog on Twitter: @LSociable or by visiting his faculty webpage: https://www.wheaton.edu/academics/faculty/brian-miller/
This week Dave talks to Gena Thomas about her book on the purpose of missionary work in the 21st century. Her book, A Smoldering Wick, details the limitations of working out of a charity mindset and how missions can integrate principles of international development to promote a unifying justice.
Gena's Bio:
Gena Thomas is a writer, a faith wrestler, a wife, and a mom. She and her husband, Andrew, have been married for 11 years and they have two children, a 9-year-old boy and a 5-year-old girl. Gena works as an instructional designer at a nonprofit that equips local churches in the area of holistic development. She has been featured on NPR's Morning Edition and in Christianity Today among other publications. She published her first book, A Smoldering Wick: Igniting Missions Work with Sustainable Practicesin 2016 which merges international development practices with short-term missions. Published in 2019, Gena's second book, Separated by the Border: A Birth Mother, a Foster Mother, and a Migrant Child's 3,000-Mile Journey unpacks the story of reuniting her Honduran foster daughter with her family after separation at the US border. Alisa & The Coronavirus is Gena's first children's book, self-published in April 2020.
You can find out more at www.genathomas.com
We haven’t been able to go as many places as of late. But places and sense of place provide great meaning and stability in our lives. Author and minister Anna Woofenden joins us to talk about the importance of place and how places become sacred in our lives.
About our guest:
Rev. Anna Woofenden (she/her/hers) is the founding pastor of the Garden Church and Feed and Be Fed Farm in San Pedro California, re-imagining church as an interconnected organism, worshiping, loving and serving together while transforming a plot of land into a vibrant urban farm and sanctuary. Through this process, she has become a leading voice in the food and faith movement, particularly in the area of liturgy and innovative ministry.
At the end of 2017 Anna transitioned the Garden Church to new leadership and is now consulting on outreach and new ministry opportunities, teaching, writing, speaking, and coaching across the country and is the founder and co-host of the Food and Faith Podcast, the transition Pastor at Zion Lutheran and the Protestant Chaplain at Amherst College. She is the author of This is God’s Table: Finding Church Beyond the Walls and has written for various publications including Christian Centurymagazine.
You can connect with Anna at annawoofenden.com, @revannawoof on Facebook and Instagram and @annawoof on Twitter. You can find the Food and Faith Podcast at www.foodandfaithpodcast.org or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can purchase her book at:
https://bookshop.org/books/this-is-god-s-table-finding-church-beyond-the-walls/9781513804835
Episode produced by Black Bear Media (www.blackbearmedia.net)
Steph Krider doesn’t have a political home. As a pro-life advocate, she has distanced herself from the pro-life movement. She talks with us about being homeless in the two-party system and how the two parties fail to promote human flourishing.
Check out a recent article about Steph's transition from pro-life leadership at https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/september/pro-life-politics-2020-election-evangelicals-trump-abortion.html?share=ztyyECaXLCWXZ8Ivj506mRsTap3saicN
On this episode, Dave sits down with writer Alicia Akins. The genesis of the conversation was a blog post she wrote called Black, Evangelical, and Single. It’s a good look at what it means to occupy identities that don’t always play well together.
Alicia Akins is a writer and recovering expat based in DC. After living and working in Asia for five years, she considers it a second home. She is a Masters of Arts in Biblical Studies student at RTS Washington and serves as a deaconess in her church, Grace DC Downtown. You can find more of her writing at www.feetcrymercy.com and follow her on twitter @feetcrymercy.
Kate and Dave sit down to talk about how inherited faith gets adopted, adapted, or rejected.
This episode features a fun conversation with pastor Jeff Cannell on how to serve and minister through social media. Listen to this before you give up hope on Facebook, Twitter, and the rest.
Kate and Dave talk about the merits and demerits of social media and how to stay sane and humane in online life. Maybe you shouldn’t give up on it just yet. Enjoy.
Have you ever felt tension and disconnection from the political party you affiliate with in the US’s two-party system? Today, guest Rachael Jones talks about what it’s like to be a Republican and a social justice activist in the age of partisan rancor and the presidency of Donald Trump.
On this episode, we talk about what it’s like when your body feels like it’s one place but your sense of identity is somewhere else. Brooke’s friends Isàbel and Arris join us to talk about the impact of their recent international move, and we think that anyone who has gone through serious transition will be able to relate.
How should we think about and interact with those we feel are fundamentally different than us in some way? We are seeing the limits of tolerance, so what should we do?
This episode focuses on how to think about systems of racial injustice. Kate and Dave talk about viewing a response to recent events as Christians who have studied sociology and political science. It’s a bit heavy, but it’s an important episode.
In this episode, Brooke and David discuss some new growth coming out of the pandemic we are enduring. It’s a hopeful followup to the episode they did a few months ago on lament.
This episode begins by continuing a series of interviews by Kara Hartman talking to kids about the coronavirus pandemic. Today's child guest is Julia Jones. Then Dave sits down with his friend Chris Dabbs to talk about the topic of atheism. We’re calling this episode Losing My Religion? to indicate the point that belief and non-belief is not necessarily the best distinction to draw between atheists and religionists.
Kate and Dave catch up on what they are thinking about and what life is like during coronavirus. They end with giving their recommendations for things to watch and read during all this time we are spending at home. Stay tuned for an interview with a special guest at the end.
David talks with guest Brooke Christensen about recognizing and processing the losses that the novel coronavirus has brought. They talk about the idea of lamenting, a practice with deep roots but one that has fallen out of vogue. It's time to rediscover it.
This episode is all about one of Christianity's central concepts - grace. It was harder to talk about on a personal level than we thought it would be, but we're pretty sure we all need grace now more than ever.
This week features an interview with Bill Christensen, a pastor who oversees international ministry in an ethnically diverse church. We discuss how to connect with international folks in our communities.
This week we talk about the different ways people go about understanding who they are. The episode is called Too Unique for my Own Good. This one gets a bit deep.
Did you grow up afraid of the dark? On this episode, author Barbara Brown Taylor joins us to talk about what the dark can teach us as we discuss her book Learning to Walk in the Dark. You’ll find this discussion of darkness illuminating.
This episode we are joined by author and biblical scholar, Pete Enns. We talk with Pete about his latest book, How the Bible Actually Works. In the book, Pete talks about how biblical authors reimagine God across the text, and we talk about what this means for us today. Check out Pete's podcast, The Bible for Normal People, and his other writings and work at https://peteenns.com/
Welcome to 2020! We thought we’d kick the year off on a high note with a conversation with Jay Pathak, author and lead pastor of Mile High Vineyard in the Denver area. Jay and I talk about how churches can become a true friend and asset to the cities that they’re in. Find Jay on Twitter at @jayrpathak and check out what's going on at his church at https://www.milehighvineyard.org/
Today we talk about what to do when life feels like it's too much. Specifically, we respond to a common refrain church people often say - "God will never give you more than you can handle." We talk about what that can possibly mean (and what it should not mean).
Kate and Dave talk about some widespread sayings from their evangelical past. Do they actual mean anything useful?
For as much as people say that the bible talks about money and wealth, Christians have very different takes on these topics. From ascetic types who take vows of poverty to pastors asking for private jets, Christians can hold very different views. Add to this the fact that Americans are intensely private about money, and it makes for a very fun discussion.
Fans of the theologian Aquinas rejoice, because we are talking about natural law! You may have encountered natural law without knowing it - a lot of arguments about “normal” human motivations and relationships are based in natural law. We’re calling it An Unnatural Conversation because we are far from experts in this area.
Work... almost everyone you know does it or has done it in the past. But we don't often think about what work is for or why we do it. We talk about all of that on this episode.
Have you ever thought about why it is that we walk around in bodies? What are bodies for, and what do they tell us about the purpose of living? In this episode called Let’s Get Physical, we talk about what faith might say that is redemptive about our bodies. (This is Part 2 of our conversation about bodies).
This episode is about purity culture, a movement in Evangelicalism that had its heyday in the 80s and 90s. We’re calling this episode Help a Brother Out, based on the purity culture notion that women had to help poor hapless men from sexual impurity by wearing modest clothing. We try to give purity culture a fair hearing! (This is Part 1 of our conversation about bodies)
In the 21st century, few things divide people regarding religion more than the idea and practice of missions - sending folks to other parts of the map in the name of their religion. Dave is joined by Brooke Christensen, cultural scholar and former missionary , to talk about how Western missions can be saved (pun fully intended). Enjoy!
It seems like most people in America believe in some version of heaven, especially when someone they know dies. However, what does the average Christian in America believe heaven to be like? It may be more influenced by cartoons than by Scripture. This week, we talk about popular beliefs about heaven and what we’ve found in scripture about it.
What do we do with people and groups that we consider "other?" In this episode, we talk a bit about identity and how to we establish who's different than us. Also, we talk about how direct experience of groups we once held at arms-length can reform our views.
This episode was recorded last year, but it's unfortunately more relevant than ever. We talk about our tendency in the US to respond to difference with outrage and to look for reasons to be outraged. What might be some of the legitimate reasons for outrage for Christians?
Author Courtney Ellis joins us this week to talk about loneliness in parenting. It feels like parenting can be a lonely proposition in the US, particularly when you're raising young kids. We talk about this phenomenon and some ways we can foster connections with people raising young children.
Courtney Ellis writes and blogs at CourtneyBEllis.com. Pastor, speaker, and author of Almost Holy Mama: Life-Giving Spiritual Practices for Weary Parents,she lives with her husband and three littles in southern California. You can follow her on Facebook and Twitter.
This week we are talking about the idea of absolutes and relativism. Our society makes claims that are absolute but cloaked in the language of relativism. What is the role of faith - defining and holding absolutes, the strength to live with everything being uncertain, or a mix of both? Listen to Kate and Dave talk through all these things.
Long before zombies and apocalypses were common talk, certain Christian groups were talking about the end of the world. A lot. In this episode, we offer a "field guide" to how some Christians think about the end of the world, and we talk about how the way we view the future impacts the present.
We often refer to evangelicalism on this show, but just what are we referring to when we do that? Glad you asked! This week, we have special guest Daniel Silliman on to break down some of the history and defining characteristics of American evangelicalism. We get into some funny conversations about evangelical subculture and how this religious movement gained traction.
Daniel Silliman is a historian who writes about religion and American culture. He is currently finishing a history of evangelical book markets and bestselling novels, including Left Behind, Love Comes Softly, and The Shack. He earned his PhD from the University of Heidelberg, in Germany, and before that worked as a newspaper reporter in Atlanta, Ga. He posts very interesting content on religion and current events at https://twitter.com/danielsilliman - he's a great person to follow.
We’re calling this episode Stranger Love, and we are talking broadly about the issue of immigration in the US. We talk a lot about the political divide regarding immigration, how the Bible might begin to inform our thinking, and how the treatment of foreigners and strangers among us matters.
It’s really hard to talk about abortion without people losing their minds. That’s why we’re calling this episode Mission Impossible. Kate and Dave talk about some ways to move past the binary and how the average American may be a bit more nuanced in their views.
This episode is about people of Christian faith and same-sex attraction. Kate and Dave lay out some of positions Christians take in how they think about sexual orientation, and they share how their thoughts and relationships have shifted over time. There is special emphasis paid to the importance of engagement and relationship over against detached doctrine. Have grace for them as they sort through what has regrettably become a divisive issue.
Kate and Dave talk about the phenomenon of Christian worship music. We learn some of Dave's confused cultural upbringing, including attending bonfires to burn CD's and cassettes of "evil" music. Kate expresses her sincere desire to catch a deer panting. It's good fun - come sing along.
In this last episode of our series on race, Dave sits down with two leaders in diversity, Pascal Losambe and Daniel Juday. The conversation begins with the contours of the diversity conversation and what feels important about diversity work and moves on to talking about fake diversity. The episode finishes with talking about some unintended consequences and weak points of the modern diversity movement. Don't miss this important episode.
This week, Kate and Dave talk about one of the most famous splits in history, bigger than Brad & Angelina, when the Protestant Church split off from the Catholic Church. There’s been some movement in the recent 10-15 years for certain protestants to reconsider some of the “higher” church traditions, particularly Catholicism, so we’re calling this episode Flirting with Rome. We talk about some of the similarities and differences between Catholicism and Protestantism and what we as Protestants appreciate about the Catholic tradition.
This is the second of a three-part series on race. On this episode, Dr. Erik Peterson joins Dave to talk about the origin of our notions of how people differ based on skin color. This is a foundational issue for any productive conversation about race.
Speaking of race, check out Erik's podcast, Speaking of Race. Erik and his colleagues do an in-depth look at the social history of race. You can find it on iTunes:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/speaking-of-race/id1293760639?mt=2
or go the show website:
http://speakingofrace.ua.edu/podcast
This week, we are talking about gender and leadership with special guest, Courtney Ellis. Courtney talks about the process of coming to see herself as a leader and becoming a pastor. We talk about the difference it makes when organizations hear from male and female voices in leadership. And of course, we talk about our personal experiences of working with female spiritual leaders.
Note: We talk about Marie Kondo’s show and writing, and we refer to the fact that Marie suggests that you keep less than 30 books at home. This is actually not what Marie espouses – it’s an internet misrepresentation. Although we’re pretty sure still that Marie Kondo would not be happy with how many books we have.
A word about our guest this week:
Courtney Ellis writes and blogs at CourtneyBEllis.com. Pastor, speaker, and author of Uncluttered: Free Your Space, Free Your Schedule, Free Your Soul, she lives with her husband and three young children in southern California. You can follow her on Facebook and Twitter. You can also download a free study guide here – it’s perfect for individuals or groups looking to do a deeper spiritual dive in to the practices of uncluttering.
We talk about race, privilege, and power this week. This is the first a of a three-part series on race. Privilege (especially white privilege) is a frequent topic of journalistic and social media conversation. But just what is meant by privilege, and what are the practical limits of this concept? What is the relationship of privilege to power? Kate and Dave try to hash it all out - listen to see how far they get.
This episode is about views of how people do (or do not) choose God (do they have to choose at all?). We are dusting off some of the theological oldies and talking Calvinism and Arminianism. Kate also tells some harrowing tales from her upbringing in northern Wisconsin.
For our first episode of 2019, we thought we would talk about suffering. We talk about different ways people think about the role of God in the world, and how God is related to pain, suffering, and goodness. Grab the tissues - Kate and I talk about some of the personal suffering we've been through (and we both cry on microphone). We wrap up by talking about tips for helping people who are going through suffering.
If you have questions or comments from this episode, you can leave them at the post for this episode at www.facebook.com/morethanthispod or email us at podcast@morethanthis.site.
If you want to support our work, please visit www.patreon.com/morethanthispod
Books referenced in this episode:
Lament for a Son - Nicholas Wolterstorff
https://www.amazon.com/Professor-Emeritus-Philosophical-Theology-Wolterstorff/dp/080280294X
The Problem of Pain - C.S. Lewis
https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969
A Grief Observed - C.S. Lewis
https://www.amazon.com/Grief-Observed-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652381
This week's episode is about parenting. We discuss the often contentious world of parenting. It's hard to think of an area in our society where people have more strongly-held views. From popular books to blogs, we talk about a lot of the different parenting approaches, and we take a look at the issue of control in parenting.
Here's a link to the book Kate talks about in the episode. Grace-Based Parenting (book) https://amzn.to/2rJ6uaX
If you have questions or comments from this episode, you can leave them at the post for this episode at www.facebook.com/morethanthispod or email us at podcast@morethanthis.site.
If you want to support our work, please visit www.patreon.com/morethanthispod
This week we talk about attempts to communicate with God (commonly referred to as prayer). Spoiler alert: we are not great at praying and find it a bit confusing. If you've ever wondered about whether or how to pray and find prayer confusing, listen to this episode.
We reference the Christian author Eugene Peterson in this episode. Unfortunately, Eugene passed away in the time since this episode was recorded. May he rest in God.
The questions that guide our discussion this week: 1) What are the prevailing ideas on what prayer is for, and how it works? What are the "mechanics" of prayer, as you understand them? 2) Have your feelings about prayer changed at different phases in your life? Where are you now-- do you pray, and if so, how and why? 3) What is prayer, in its most essential form? Why do we care about it, and should we? 4) What are some ways you can stretch and grow in your own practice of prayer?
Have a question or feedback? Email us at podcast@morethanthis.site. Thanks!
This episode is about the bible. We talk a lot about how to read it, why to read, and our troubles with reading the bible across our lives. Dave also humble brags about his time as a bible-quizzing champion and gives pointers on how to get ahead in the bible-quizzing game.
Links discussed in the podcast:
Jesus Calling 365 Devotions for Kids (book) by Sarah Young https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400388872/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i4
The Bible Made Impossible (book) by Christian Smith https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Made-Impossible-Biblicism-Evangelical/dp/158743329X
The Bible for Normal People (podcast) - Peter Enns and Jared Byas http://thebiblefornormalpeople.podbean.com/
This week, we're talking about gender and relationships. There's a lot to discuss, and we talk about views of gender, gender roles, and relationships. It's a pretty tame battle of the sexes.
We address the following questions: 1. What are the prevailing viewpoints on gender (both inside and outside the church)? 2. What position did we used to hold, what disrupted it, and where do we feel tension now? 3. What does it mean to have a gender from a biblical perspective? What is prescriptive and what is merely descriptive (and can we know)? 4. Where do we go from here? What are healthy "stretches"?
Here are the links we reference in this episode:
Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood: https://cbmw.org
Danvers Statement:
https://cbmw.org/uncategorized/the-danvers-statement/
Christians for Biblical Equality: https://www.cbeinternational.org
Our theme music is written by Andy Malone and performed by the band Both Girls.