Survival of the Kindest: Recent Episodes
We are all learning how to keep kindness at the forefront of our daily interactions, how connecting with others can keep loneliness at bay, and how compassionate communities are emerging all over the world. The new podcast ‘Survival of the Kindest’ comes out of the international compassion movement that puts kindness at the heart of our lives, our towns, and our healthcare. Expert in compassionate communities and former palliative care doctor, Julian Abel, welcomes specialists each week to discuss the many ways to have a long and happy life.
103: Dr. Kelli Stajduhar - Combating Marginalisation
Dr. Kelli Stajduhar, RN, PhD, FCAHS is a professor in the School of Nursing and a research fellow at the Institute on Aging and Lifelong Health at the University of Victoria and research affiliate with Island Health.
Kelli has been a champion of equity in palliative care. Her interest in this developed in her time working as a community nurse with HIV positive patients. She understood directly through her experience that simply providing a service is not enough. People and the social and physical environments in which they live are the contexts in which help and support can be given. Failure to do this in the contact of marginalised communities further excludes them, making worse their sense of marginalisation.
She has worked in oncology, palliative care, and gerontology for almost 30 years as a practicing nurse, educator, and researcher.
Kelli has over 285 academic publications and presentations. She is lead investigator on multiple research projects including international research collaboratives on family caregiving; projects evaluating the integration of a palliative approach in acute and residential care settings, and national studies on access to end-of-life care for structurally vulnerable populations and care experiences of caregivers providing palliative care in the home.
102: Shawn Wilson - Research is Ceremony
Shawn Wilson is an Associate Professor of Indigenous Studies at the University of British Columbia. His book, Research is Ceremony, Indigenous Research Methods, is one of my favourites. As we have discussed previously on Survival of the Kindest, indigenous ways of knowing and being offer a lot, stressing the importance of interdependence, relationsional accountability and kinship not just with the people around us but with everything. It is a harmonious and very integrated way of living. Our actions have consequences everywhere and this is increasingly obvious as we watch the impact of environmental destruction. Research has a really important role to play in understanding how this all fits together. Limited rationalistic scientific research methods are not suitable to be able to describe this complexity and Shawn in his book, demonstrates how indigenous research methods are more appropriate in providing a much broader, more expansive view.
101: Tammy McGrath - It takes a community approach for end-of-life journey
"A Wongatha, Ngadju, Mirning Yamitji, Woman from the Goldfields, proud Mum, Nanna, Daughter, Sister Aunty, Cousin, Friend, Colleague, Connector. I’ve been living on Noongar Boodjar (Country) more than I’ve lived on my own. I’ve been blessed and guided by my Noongar Elders, Ancestors to walk their Country live, work respect and to tread softly on this spiritual journey.
To encourage ALL people, Aboriginal, clinicians alike, to talk about palliative care. If we demystify the barriers of palliative care early, we can improve access to the appropriate services. By working together to inspire mob, in their communities to yarn, plan, prepare.
By building strong relationships with stakeholders, working in partnership with as many services to help close gaps, identify any issue to collaborate seamless care for patients and their families. It takes a village to raise a child and it takes a community approach for end-of-life journey.
I believe in equity for everyone, and everyone should have access to a Deadly (Good) death if I can help to empower, educate, and advocate for my people my mob, on being prepared in charge of their end-of-life journey to how they’d like their story to go then I’ve achieved more than I could have ever wishes for." - Tammy McGrath
100 - Simon Lennane: How developing trust with community builds community health
"Social infrastructure is a good way of framing community capacity"
Simon Lennane is a GP in Shropshire who has a new book out, called Creating Community Health. For many people in healthcare, common sense tells them that health is more than application of medical treatments. The context in which people live has a tremendous impact on how they experience health and ill health. Simon discovered this through visiting people in the homes. To help address the issues of community he partnered with the Ross Community Development Trust. This led him down the road of exploring the social context of health and the important role that communities play and keeping people healthy, improving their well-being and making sure that when they suffer ill health they remain connected to the community. His book is an extensive presentation of how this can be done and is a treasury of resources
99 - Vishanthie Sewpaul: Hearing, Listening, Helping. - Part 2
Helping people does not always have to be something tangible or material that you give. It's hearing people. It's listening to them. It's taking them seriously.
Vishanthie Sewpaul is a Senior Emeritus Professor of Social Work at the University of KwaZulu Natal in South Africa. She has an extraordinary life story, living as a South African Indian through apartheid. Her mother was an inspirational figure, dedicated to integrity, working hard and bringing up her family as a single parent. Vishanthie entered education without expectation of going to university but, following a chance meeting, she realised that she could study social work. Through dedication to her work, a deep belief in social justice and a forthrightness of spirit, she rose to be an international lead in the field of social work. Her autobiography is called The Arc of Our Paths and is a fascinating read.
This podcast is divided into 2 episodes to give full justice to the depth of Vishanthie’s story.
98 - Vishanthie Sewpaul: Hearing, Listening, Helping.
Helping people does not always have to be something tangible or material that you give. It's hearing people. It's listening to them. It's taking them seriously.
Vishanthie Sewpaul is a Senior Emeritus Professor of Social Work at the University of KwaZulu Natal in South Africa. She has an extraordinary life story, living as a South African Indian through apartheid. Her mother was an inspirational figure, dedicated to integrity, working hard and bringing up her family as a single parent. Vishanthie entered education without expectation of going to university but, following a chance meeting, she realised that she could study social work. Through dedication to her work, a deep belief in social justice and a forthrightness of spirit, she rose to be an international lead in the field of social work. Her autobiography is called The Arc of Our Paths and is a fascinating read.
This podcast is divided into 2 episodes to give full justice to the depth of Vishanthie’s story.
97 - Antoine Boivin and Ghislaine Rouly: Standardisation, depersonalisation and the impact this has on peoples health and wellness
"My whole journey really as a physician has been to meet people in important moments of their lives, build relationships." - Antoine Boivin
For many clinicians, the routine practice of medicine is unsatisfactory. Standardisation, depersonalisation, lack of emphasis on relationship and the impact this has on peoples health and wellness is often an obvious omission. Clinicians find ways of developing their practice to do what they can to close the gap. Listeners to Survival of the Kindest will be familiar with the Frome Model of enhanced primary care and compassionate communities and how this had a transformative impact on the whole population of Frome.
This week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast features Antoine Boivin and Ghislaine Rouly. Antoine is a practicing family physician and the Chairholder of the Canada Research Chair in Partnership with Patients and Communities. Working as a family physician in the community of Center-South Montreal, he completed his M.Sc. and Ph.D. in health services research in the United Kingdom and Netherlands. He found an excellent partner in Ghislaine Rouly, in bridging the gap between professional care and a more personalised, relationship approach. Ghislaine Rouly has been a patient since birth, living with two orphan genetic diseases. Ghislaine has always been working in the health sector and has acquired a unique level of experiential knowledge.
For the past five years, at the Faculty of Medicine of the University of Montreal, she has been working within the Patient Partnership Collaboration Directorate team, where patient partnership has become her passion. She participates in mentoring, ethics courses, the courses on collaborative practices and also sits on the expert patient committee.
96 - Gonzalo Brito Pons: Compassion in Chile
"I take wisdom and kindness wherever I can find it"
This week @julianabel welcomes Chilean clinical psychologist and researcher into compassion Gonzalo Brito Pons @CulivarMente to the Survival of the Kindest podcast. Gonzalo talks about his work spanning 20 years on the impact of compassion, most recently during the Covid-19 Pandemic.
We are fully dependent on and interdependent with the food that’s grown from the ground, the water we drink, the air we breathe, the sunlight, the moon, and everything that keeps our ecosystem functioning.
On this week’s Survival of the Kindest we hear from Dave Oates. Dave he is an advocate of regenerative farming practices on his family farm on The Lizard peninsula in Cornwall, Southwest England. He firmly believes that farming can have a positive impact on the environment, both increasing biodiversity and carbon capture, at the same time as producing healthy, nutritious food.
94 - Tania Singer: "We need to start measuring social interactions and understand compassion"
"We need to start measuring social interactions and understand compassion"
I am delighted to welcome Tania Singer on this week survival of the kindest podcast. Tanya is a psychologist and Professor of Social Neuroscience. She is the scientific director of the Max Planck Society's Social Neuroscience Lab in Berlin. Between 2007 and 2010, she became the inaugural chair of social neuroscience and neuroeconomics at the University of Zurich and was the co-director of the Laboratory for Social and Neural Systems Research in Zurich. Her research focuses on the developmental, neuronal, and hormonal mechanisms underlying human social behaviour and social emotions such as compassion and empathy. She is founder and principal investigator of the ReSource project, one of the largest longitudinal studies on the effects of mental training on brain plasticity, as well as mental and physical health, co-funded by the European Research Council.
"My work is absolutely political. Working with the community is absolutely political. Working with refugees is absolutely political. Politics is everywhere. But the way politicians exercise it is a dead end."
Thalia Dragonas is Emeritus Professor of Social Psychology at the University of Athens, where she was also the Head of the Department for Early Childhood Education. Her research interests have included psychosocial identity and intergroup relations, intercultural education and ethnocentrism in the educational system, prevention and promotion of early psychosocial health, and she worked extensively for the educational reform of the Muslim Minority in Western Thrace.
She previously served as a State Member of the Greek Parliament and Secretary on Educational Planning and Intercultural Education at the Ministry of Education, Life-Long Learning and Religious Affairs. However, her commitment to the integration of minorities attracted the opposition of LAOS.
Julian talks with Thalia about her community development projects with various marginalised groups in Greece, the difference between integration and assimilation, and her experience of the Greek political system.
"If we live in a culture where where hate is made easy, we are more likely to take that path. Hate gives us a sense of empowerment. Rage gives us a sense of agency. Othering gives us a sense of superiority. It may all be an illusion but at least we don't feel vulnerable and powerless [...] In political debate, fear has been used to create a triggered state where people are going to be in 'fight or flight' so we'll choose to hate rather than welcome."
In this week's episode, Julian speaks with Jennifer Nadel, the co-founder of Compassion in Politics and chair of the Global Compassion Coalition. They talk about her fascinating career from qualifying as a barrister to becoming Home Affairs Editor for ITV, and the writing, campaigning, and activism she has moved into since.
Throughout her career, Jennifer has been looking for a platform to tell the truth, however inconvenient, and to stand against injustice. But she combines this with a deep optimism about the human potential for compassion.
In their conversation with Julian, they talk about some of the failings of the criminal justice system, the potential of the media to trigger positive change but also to have harmful intended consequences, and the need for greater compassion in our political system and wider culture.
"If we are attuned to the reality that our biological, emotional, and spiritual needs are totally dependent on others, then we will feel gratitude and tenderness towards others."
Geshe Lobsang Tenzin Negi is the co-founder and Executive Director of the Center for Contemplative Science and Compassion-Based Ethics at Emory University, a Professor of Pedagogy in the University’s Department of Religion and the founder and spiritual director of Drepung Loseling Monastery.
After spending 27 years as a monk, Professor Negi has pioneered compassion training programmes and contributed to the development of compassion science.
In 2004, he developed CBCT® (Cognitively-Based Compassion Training), a secular contemplative programme based on Tibetan Buddhist practices that works to cultivate compassion. He also oversees SEE Learning™ (Social, Emotional and Ethical Learning), a programme which, championed by the Dalai Lama, spans from pre-school through to university. SEE Learning helps develop children's capacities for ethical discernment, attentiveness, and compassion for self and others.
Geshe Lobsang speaks with Julian about his monastic training, Buddhist teachings about compassion, and how we can all become more compassionate, whatever our beliefs.
"In community development, as the outsider, you can help with facilitation, you can help with organising, you can help with identifying resources. But you are never the leader."
In this episode, Julian is joined by Jim Nininger, Co-Founder of Compassionate Ottawa, and Mary Lou Kelley, Professor of Social Work and Gerontology at Lakehead University and Professor at the Northern Ontario School of Medicine. They talk about the history of Compassionate Ottawa, its biggest successes, and how they see it developing in the future. Jim and Mary also share their advice for anyone wanting to start a Compassionate City movement in their own community.
Compassionate Ottawa draws much of its inspiration from Professor Allan Kellehear's work on the Compassionate City Charter. It is a citizen-led movement which seeks to change the way we think of living well, dying, death and grief, and to strengthen the capacity of people to care for each other in times of serious illness and loss.
You can read more about Compassionate Ottawa on their website and you can find out about how to work towards accredited Compassionate City Charter status here.
"There's this really interesting untapped potential within the threshold of your neighbourhood and if you could have a pair of special glasses to see all the invisible stuff that modern life blinds us from seeing, you'd see the gifts of your neighbours, you'd see the possibilities in your associations, you'd see all of the things that never get reported."
This week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast sees the return of Cormac Russell. Cormac has a new book out, The Connected Community: Discovering the Health, Wealth and Power of Neighbourhoods, written with John McKnight, co-originator of Asset Based Community Development. It is written for people who want to better understand how communities can come together and transform their neighbourhood, from within.
Cormac Russel is the Founding Director of Nurture Development and a member of the Asset-Based Community Development (ABCD) Institute, at DePaul University, Chicago. His previous book Rekindling Democracy – A Professional’s Guide to Working in Citizen Space focussed on the how professionals can reorientate their work to fit within the context of community.
On this episode, Julian and Cormac talk about the themes of both books, maps of misery and treasure maps as ways of seeing our communities, the building blocks to a good life lived with our neighbours, and the wisdom of indigenous ways of being.
You can listen to their previous conversation on the podcast here.
"With Jobe, I have to slow my whole life down, but it's quite a blessing... He takes me back to basics."
Ben Taylor-Davies was born and raised on a farm in Ross-on-Wye before studying geography at Liverpool University. He worked as an agronomist, an expert in soil management and crop production, until his son, Jobe, was badly injured in an accident on the farm. That incident changed the course of Ben's career as well as the rest of the family's life.
To reignite his love for agriculture, he travelled internationally to learn about other farming techniques and, as a result, his understanding about the biology of soil was transformed. Now an expert on regenerative farming, Ben advises governments, large food, production companies, and farmers alike around the world, while he, his wife and their three children also manage the farm he grew up on.
"Something Darwin knew all about is the power of diversity - crops are more successful when they're grown as part of a mix."
On this episode of Survival of the Kindest, Julian speaks to Ben Raskin, Head of Horticulture and Agroforestry at the Soil Association. Ben has been working in horticulture for over 25 years, since he helped out at a vineyard in Italy to say thank you to the owners who had invited him for dinner.
Ben co-chairs the Edibles Horticulture Roundtable within the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; sits on the boards of the Organic Growers Alliance and the UK's Community Supported Agriculture Network. He set up and ran the 10-acre horticultural production at Daylesford Organic Farm, before moving to the Welsh College of Horticulture as commercial manager. Now living in Sussex, the produce from his walled garden supplies a Michelin-starred restaurant.
In his conversation with Julian, they talk about the similarities between the ecology of healthy soil and that of strong communities; evidence of co-operation and interdependence between the millions of organisms within soil; and why Ben is optimistic about regenerative, sustainable farming.
"Your strength comes from your community, how you care and what you share - not from putting a fence around yourself and keeping others out."
Professor Paul Gilbert is Professor of Clinical Psychology at the University of Derby and Visiting Professor at the University of Queensland. He founded and developed Compassion Focused Therapy (CFT) and established the Compassionate Mind Foundation which supports thousands of clinicians around the world to develop, practice and promote CFT.
Professor Gilbert as spent decades researching evolutionary approaches to mental health alongside working as a Consultant Clinical Psychologist in the NHS. He has over 300 publications including 22 books.
In his conversation with Dr Julian Abel, they talk about the Buddhist view of consciousness and compassion, the development of CFT, evolutionary theories of mental health, societal shifts from 'hold and control' to 'care and share', and much, much more.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
"What matters most for any baby with a brain injury is the environment they go home to and grow up in... What happens in hospital has a relatively minor effect."
Dr. Tommy Wood is currently the assistant professor of paediatrics and neuroscience at the University of Washington. He originally trained in biochemistry at the University of Cambridge, going on to study medicine at the University of Oxford, and complete a Ph.D. in Norway on neonatal brain injury.
His research now focuses on improving brain health and function across the life-course and supporting recovery from brain injury.
He is also Associate Editor of the journal, Lifestyle Medicine, competes in Powerlifting and Strongman competitions, and is a strength and conditioning coach.
In his conversation with Dr Julian Abel, they talk about neuroscience, nutrition, and how learnings from neonatal care can help us support people in later life.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
“The twin ideas of national sovereignty and competitiveness are preventing so much of the collective action that we need”.
This week survival of the kind of podcast features, Alex Evans. Alex is the founder of Larger Us, an organisation which aims to enable social change through expanding our sense of a collective self, rather than thinking in terms of us versus them.
Alex is a Senior Fellow at New York University's Centre on International Cooperation and author of The Myth Gap: What Happens When Evidence and Arguments Aren't Enough? , a book which uses deep stories to unlock systemic social and political change, addressing a world of increasing them-and-us identity.
He has been Campaign Director at Avaaz, where he ran campaigns on areas including Brexit, tax havens, humanitarian assistance, and human rights. He has done various stints as a political adviser, including as special adviser to two UK Secretaries of State for International Development. He has worked in the UN Secretary-General's office; and as consultant for organisations from Oxfam and WWF to the Ethiopian government and the US National Intelligence Council.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
"Are you committed to telling the truth and playing fair? And are you committed to supporting those who do tell the truth and play fair regardless of political view? And are you prepared to cast out of your political party those who do not tell the truth and play fair?"
This week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast features Dr Rick Hanson. Rick is a psychologist and senior fellow at UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center, founded by Dacher Keltner, who has also been a podcast guest. He is a New York Times best-selling author. His six books have been published in 30 languages and include Neurodharma, Resilient, Hardwiring Happiness, Just One Thing, Buddha’s Brain, and Mother Nurture He is an expert on positive neuroplasticity, and has great knowledge into brain neurophysiology. He became interested in meditation in the 70s an and is the founder of the Wellspring Institute for Neuroscience and Contemplative Wisdom. His combination knowledge of meditation with his knowledge of psychology and neurophysiology provides fascinating insights into how these diverse fields fit closely together.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
"We want care to be place-based. We want people to be able to get care close to home, or in their home. We want care to be experienced as Safe. We want care to be experienced as Compassionate. We want people's families to be included and Respected."
We have heard repeatedly on Survival of the Kindest podcast about how compassionate communities are a natural part of being human, how we have treated each other as we have evolved over 2 million years of walking upright. We have heard many examples from indigenous peoples about how compassionate communities are naturally present and this has been maintained for thousands of years.
Often we don’t need to look to other communities to discover this, the same elements can be found all around us, all of the time. This week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast features, Dr Kirsten Auret. Kirsten is a palliative care specialist and assistant professor at the University of Western Australia Medical School.
She was naturally connected to her community, and the development of palliative care came from community roots. So, when she started hearing about compassionate communities and compassionate cities, it was a natural progression from what she was already doing, complementing the way that she was working.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
This week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast features Professor Danai Papadatou. Danai is Professor of Psychology at the University of Athens. Her glittering career is so full it seems like she has lived three lives. She has authored and edited numerous authoritative books and published extensively research articles on bereavement, particularly relating to childhood bereavement. She is an international keynote speaker and member of international committees. But perhaps most impressive of all is her work with Merimna, the charity she set up for childhood bereavement.
She was invited by the Greek government to help when 7 children were killed in a school bus accident in northern Greece. The charity has more recently worked with unaccompanied refugee minors, many who have multiple traumatic experiences. Danai has always seen community as a key part of her work, providing a blended model of psychological support from individual work to community participation.
Her remarkable film about the school bus tragedy will be shown at The Stroud Film Festival on Sunday March 19th . She will be attend remotely and will be free to answer questions. To donate to Merimna, please click on the link here.
77: The Value of Death - Prof Allan Kellehear, Dr Libby Sallnow, Dr Richard Smith, and Dr Julian Abel
Death and life are bound together. Without life, there would be no death.
Dr Julian Abel
This week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast is a joint interview between Professor Allan Kellehear, Dr Libby Sallnow, Dr Richard Smith and myself. Richard was editor of the British Medical Journal for 25 years. Libby and Richard are lead authors in the Lancet Commission On The Value Of Death. Allan founded the field of public health palliative care back in the 1990s and has overseen the development over the last 25 years. Libby is a consultant in palliative care in London and a leader in the field of public health palliative care. Both Allan and Libby have featured on previous episodes of Survival of the Kindest.
The story of dying in the 21st century is a story of paradox. COVID-19 has meant people have died the ultimate medicalised deaths, often alone in hospitals with little communication with their families. But in other settings, including in some lower income countries, many people remain undertreated, dying of preventable conditions and without access to basic pain relief. The unbalanced and contradictory picture of death and dying is the basis for the Lancet Commission on the Value of Death. Drawing on multidisciplinary perspectives from around the globe, the Commissioners argue that death and life are bound together: without death there would be no life. The Commission proposes a new vision for death and dying, with greater community involvement alongside health and social care services, and increased bereavement support.
76: Dave and Sara Brave Heart - Humility and Compassion
Your responsibilities to others are more important than your own personal wants.
This week’s podcast features Dave and Sara Brave Heart. Daves childhood was not easy. His father suffered from alcoholism and Dave also found some solace in alcohol. Both he and his father were successful in coming to grips with their addiction, finding compassion and wisdom in their Native American roots. Despite quite different backgrounds, both David and Sara, his wife, found connections and similarities.
Dave leads the healing Annual Mahkato Pow Wow , the Dakota Wokiksuye Makoce, or Land of Memories Park in Mankato, Minnesota. This was where the Dakota People held many gatherings before the execution of 38 warriors during the U.S. Dakota War of 1862. After that mass execution, the Dakota People moved out of the area and scattered to different parts of the country. This pow wow is an effort to bring them back to their homeland.
Dave was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, also known as motor neurone disease, in September 2021. Both Sara and Dave’s openness and care for each other shines through in this podcast.
Dave’s speech is slurred from his ALS. He is still able to communicate well and his wisdom and humour are evident throughout. A GoFundMe for Dave can be found here to help make Dave and Sara's house more accessible.
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Email us at sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
- Dr Ros Watts - Psilocybin As A Treatment For Depression
I have become more and more interested in community and nature as important ways of integrating not only psychedelic experiences, but just life experiences.
On this week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast I am delighted to welcome Dr Ros Watts. Ros managed to combine both a conventional and unconventional side to her childhood, doing well academically at the same time as enjoying a thriving dance scene. She became a clinical psychologist and got a job supervising people using psilocybin in a clinical trial for depression at Imperial College. What was clear from the outcome of the trial was that people developed a sense of belonging after having taken psilocybin in a therapeutic clinical environment. This naturally led Ros to consider the role of community in mental health. She has designed a therapeutic intervention that connects people both to nature and each other.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
- Holly Prince - You Will Be An Ancestor To Somebody. And What Is Your Legacy?
Start thinking about being accountable to the next 6, 7, 8 generations down the line, it really encourages you to live your life in a good way.
We welcome back Holly Prince to this week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast. Holly was a guest on episode 15. She is a First Nations palliative care researcher who worked alongside Mary Lou Kelly, who was a guest on episode 7. Mary Lou and Holly together ran an exemplary participatory research project in First Nations communities in Canada, which endures to the present day.
Holly is now midway through her PhD. She is researching First Nations ways of knowing and being. She’s using innovative research techniques to make sure that the elders of her community determine what they think is important to say, and furthermore her interpretation of this will be checked directly with them.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
- Professor George Slavich - What Does The Immune System Care About?
'Suggesting that those things be practiced misses at least 50% of the point which is not just about getting us to live longer but it's about moving us incrementally toward being better people, being more, kind and compassionate to ourselves and to other people, purely for the sake of doing it.'
On the Survival of the Kindest podcast we try and piece together a variety of different views which help to explain why compassion is so important.
We have heard from Professor Julianne Holt Lunstad about the dramatic effect of social relationships on reducing the risk of dying. We heard from Professor Steve Cole about how this works at a molecular level, including the field of human social genomics. On this week’s podcast we hear about the fantastic work of Professor George Slavich. George and Steve are colleagues. Starting with a psychology degree, George became increasingly interested in the biological impacts of social relationships. This led him to the field of psychoneuroimmunology. The depth of his interest is amazing. He has managed to describe as complete a picture of the impact of social relationships in all the body systems as we have. He has developed the field of social safety theory which comprehensively examines the evolutionary roots and the impacts of a variety of different environments, both physical and social, on how our bodies function.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
72: Diana Reynolds - The Bigger Picture
"If you're looking at the bits you're not seeing the bigger picture"
On this week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast I am delighted to welcome Diana Reynolds. Diana is the Sustainable Development Change Manager for Welsh Government, where she is a leadership coach and manages a long term behaviour change programme.
Diana has, in various existences, been a school teacher, head of computing, private sector training manager, semiskilled machine operative and university staff development officer. She spent several years working freelance in mid-Wales as a management consultant; providing advice and training on educational management, adult education, information technology and environmental education, through the medium of Welsh and English.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
71: Judah Amani - Making Sense
"Music provides the vehicle to express things that are quite difficult to express"
On this week’s Survival of the Kindest podcast I am delighted to welcome Judah Amani. Judah has an extraordinary background being brought up in Iran, London, and Israel. This unique combination of different cultural upbringings was somewhat disorientating for him. Judah found that he was able to make more sense of his complex world through understanding design. He took a diversion in the world of music, and perhaps found this equally disorientating.
Going back to design via the route of human rights, he used the processes he understood working with prisoners and help them develop In-House records.
The social context of design has been really important to him and there is a real commonality of language with that of community development. Design is in everything and is part of power structures, equity and human rights.
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
70: Jenny Kassan - What the Community Want
'The small moment of someone choosing to invest a hundred dollars, $500 in a local business, makes such a huge difference. It's a radical act. If we can have more of those small moments, I believe it'll make a huge difference.'
On this weeks survival of the kindest podcast I am delighted to welcome Jenny Kassan. Jenny grew up in something of a radical household, familiarising her with a critique of capitalism. She studied psychology at UC Berkeley and then did an intern with Ralph Nader in Washington DC. This was a formative period for her working on Civil Rights and exposing the negative aspects of big corporations. She went on to law school and then worked for a non-profit community development corporation in Oakland called the Unity Council, where she served as staff attorney and managed community economic development projects, including a $100 million housing project and the formation and management of several social ventures designed to employ and create business ownership opportunities for low-income community residents.
Jenny co-founded the Sustainable Economies Law Center, a non-profit that provides legal information to support sustainable economies. Jenny is also a fellow at Democracy Collaborative.
Jenny’s legal practice, Jenny Kassan Consulting, provides legal services, coaching, and consulting for mission-driven companies, investors, and intermediaries and includes educational programs for entrepreneurs
Connect with Jenny on twitter
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released. Email us on sotk@compassionate-communitiesuk.co.uk
69: Professor Olaf Kuhlke - Cultural Entrepreneurship
This weeks survival of the kind of podcast features Olaf Kuhlke. Olaf was brought up in Germany and studied cultural geography. He went on to study higher degrees in Canada and the United States. He is an associate professor in the department of geography and philosophy at the University of Minnesota Duluth. Olaf’s career Took an interesting turn after a visit to remote communities in northern Canada.
As a cultural geographer, he has written about international migration, large-scale dance festivals and their place in national and local discourse, the representation of national identity in Canadian popular music, the global diffusion of dance practices, and the places of Freemasonry in the United States. Most recently, he has been a passionate advocate for the establishment of cultural entrepreneurship as an academic discipline and practice, and have written about the theoretical foundations of this new form of entrepreneurship emerging out of the liberal arts.
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68: Amara Leigh Hull - Happiness, Love and Health
"I guess we don't really get taught so much at school about how to deal with hormones and how to accept them and be like, that's okay, that's fine."
CW: depression and suicide.
This week Julian talks to TR-14er Amara Leigh Hull. Aged 19, Amara talks openly about the hardships she has been through ranging from depression in school, to her more recent struggles, and where dance and music has fitted in with that.
Throughout lockdowns, very dark periods, and going to uni, Amara has kept up working as a leader with the TR-14ers. To hear her speak about the place it has in her life is to learn from someone what a difference community can make.
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67: Tawnee Prazak Gibson - Compassion in Life and Sport
‘Everybody wants to coach the elite athletes, Olympic athletes, the ones winning races, the ones qualifying for championships. You name it. What about everybody else? Because the vast majority of us are everybody else ’
CW disordered eating.
This week Julian talks to host of the Endurance Planet Podcast, triathlon coach Tawnee Prazak Gibson, described as ‘holistic health and endurance sports coach, mother, multisport athlete, writer and speaker,’ on the Edurance Planet website. For many women involved in endurance sports it can feel like the training on offer ignores the reality of their lives. From periods to parenthood Tawnee has approached incredible athletic feats with care of her own mind and body at the fore front.
Throughout this conversation with Julian she talks about the incredibly difficult journey she has had, handling an eating disorder, the death of her first child, and how to coach other athletes. Tawnee’s approach is filled with the compassion that Survival of the Kindest hears about often and wants to amplify - understanding what success means is different for everyone, and that everyone deserves to be professionally guided towards their goals. Another beautiful conversation that meanders around loss, grief, life, and sports and has much to say along the way.
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This week Julian talks to regenerative economist Bennet Zelner. While economics is not something that is habitually associated with compassion, in this episode Bennet highlights how it affects us on a day to day level: How our current economic system is draining monetary resources from communities for the benefits of shareholders, and how large the impact of having a different system could be.
Bennet’s work is revolutionary, and his mission of injecting humanity back into economics is well funded and long over due. By changing the way we think about money - as something that benefits many rather than just a few, we can change society.
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This week Julian talks to Nicole Hewlett. Nicole grew up unaware of her aboriginal roots until her teens, however she always had a deeper understanding of herself which somehow acknowledged a difference, and she always was drawn and emotionally and socially connected socially to minority communities. After studying Psychological sciences and then public health, Nicole now works with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, as well non-indigenous communities, creating accessible palliative care that breaks down the current intrinsic barriers.
The very deep knowledge that indigenous communities hold, from being over 60,000 years old, and from always drawing on their ancestors and their communal learning, is an entirely different understanding of life, death, people, animals and place, to the one we learn in schools and in life in general. Throughout the conversation Nicole gives shape to these ideas (in a language which inherently has tried to stamp out the aboriginal culture for many years), and what non-indigenous communities can learn, and how not having this understanding has been affecting the way society does social care, death and dying.
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This week Julian and Hazel conclude their conversation about Hazel’s amazing work after the enormous success of the Beacon project in Cornwall.
While Hazel had a disappointing stint with the Government, who failed to grasp the importance of what she achieved, her success did not go unnoticed. Through speaking up and down the country Hazel met a hoard of doctors, and various academics, who understood how transformative the Beacon project had been.
Hazels work since then has been no less successful. And throughout all of it she has held onto the key principles that drove the initial project - connection, listening, and giving people space. While it sounds simple, it is incredibly hard to execute with authenticity.
For more information on the work that Hazel has done you can tune in to next week’s episode, and also look at C2.
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This week is the first part of a conversation with Hazel Stutley O.B.E. Her work has been lauded widely for both the impact that it has had and the way that stakeholders are at the centre of her work, in a way that has been truly transformative.
In part 1 Hazel talks about how she came to community development, and in particular how she started the Beacon project in Cornwall which went on to win awards and, more importantly, had remarkable side effects on the community ranging from better school grades for primary school children, to safer housing.
Hazel’s kindness, and belief in the ability of humans to also be kind and engaged given the opportunity, shines throughout this episode. Through connection and communication grounded in compassion, Hazel has achieved so much, and shown what is possible.
For more information on the work that Hazel has done you can tune in to next week’s episode, and also look at C2
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This week Julian talks to ecologist Dr Rod Gritten, the former Head of Ecology of Snowdonia National Park. Since becoming enthralled with spiders as a young boy, Rod has always been invested and connected in the environment and the ecosystem. He has a deep understanding of how it is now, how it could be, and how human health is deeply connected to the health of nature.
Despite the impressively gloomy outlook for our environment, this conversation is positive. Through re connecting with nature we as a species can find our way back to a more interdependent life with our surroundings.
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This week Julian is joined by Dr Tess Moeke-Maxwell, founding member of the Te Ārai Palliative and End of Life Research Group in the School of Nursing at the University of Auckland where she is also a Research Fellow. The reclamation of knowledge that is occurring world-over in indigenous communities has been making waves in every area of life and community, and in this podcast Dr Moeke Maxwell talks about how Maori knowledge and way of life has moved with her through her research in Palliative care and life in general.
She brings deep historical and traditional knowledge that sees life, death, people and place in a way that western medicine could never understand and does not seek to. However, her research is seeking to bring that knowledge forward.
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On this week’s episode Julian talks to Eivind Hoff-Elimari, local politician for the municipality of Nesodden in Norway. Eivind ‘s take on what politics is for is simple - it is for creating a good life. Not in the sense that we culturally understand a good life, but one that is good for everyone, people, places, plants, pets alike.
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Norwegian Green Party politician Kristoffer Robin takes Julian through where Green Politics is at this moment in time, and where he thinks it is pointing. Having grown from scientists who have seen and fully understood the situation we are in as a species, and as a planet, Green parties have often leaned towards alarmism. However in this conversation Kristoffer talks passionately about how green politics is also the politics of compassion, and one which is planning for a better future for humans, rather than for the stock market.
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This week Julian talks to Maff Potts, the founder of the Camerados Movement, former government adviser and policy writer on homelessness, and the man who convinced the Millennium dome to be a venue for Crisis at Christmas before it went out of public ownership.
At 21 Maff’s whole life had changed shape as between 17-21 he lost both of his parents. Trying to rejig who you are as an adult in your twenties is hard enough without the extra pain of grief, and understandably Maff went through many hard times. For him working with Crisis at Christmas was the thing that got him through and started him on the path to where he is now.
The mutuality of Crisis, the homeless people that helped him while he helped them, showed Maff that relationships and meaningful interactions should be the top priority.
Camerados Website
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Brendan Martin came to community development through a very interesting path. Having worked as a journalist with a particular interest in how privatisation of various industries in the UK was working from the perspective of trade unions, and the actual workers it was effecting, his remit gradually grew outside of the UK and he travelled to over 70 countries looking at similar situations, advising, researching and teaching on how organisations and unions can work, and can self-mobilise.
Eventually his experience with his own parents and care homes in the UK, combined with his expertise in how to run effective organisations where the service providers and service users are equally as autonomous, led him to start Buurtzorg Britain and Ireland - self managing care teams which work with NHS trusts, and which have amazing outcomes both for the staff and for those who are being cared for.
Brendans work, and the work of Buurtzorg, is another incredible example of a different way of working which far exceeds the expectations we have of our current system.
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Our guest this week, Lisa Keefauver, is a grief and empathy expert. In this extraordinarily tender and moving podcast Lisa talks to Julian about her career and her life which have led her to her current work now, educating people on how to be there for those in grief, and how as a society we can better accommodate those who are grieving.
CW Rape
Often when we think of communities coming together we talk in grand terms about organising, and being motivated by compassion, and it can be hard to pin point what that looks like in more granular, and day-to-day terms. Sue Merriman, and the community of Brereton embody this.
Sue talks to Julian about how the community response to COVID grew naturally out of people such as herself, who saw others who were struggling, and stepped up.
Recently Brereton was the first to become an accredited Compassionate Community, and throughout this episode it is not hard to see why. From the way they have spent their lottery grant, contacting nearly every member of the area to find out what they want, to sitting with people in their last and lonely moments during covid, this is a community built on one and other, and that runs thanks to the compassion of its members, and its organisers.
Brereton Million Twitter Website
This week Julian talks to Nobuko Miyamoto about her art which spans all media and practices, and in which community plays a large role.
In this episode Nobuko talks about how she came to understand her own position in American culture as a Japanese American women, how passing as Puerto Rican in Westside story made her look deeper into the culture and community in America, how the black panthers spoke for so many people, how the Vietnam war shaped her youth and her future, and about how Art threads through it all.
The knowledge embedded in community is something that comes up a lot on this podcast and this episode is no exception, and Nobuko has such a deep understanding of community practice, and the benefits it brings.
Nobuko Miyamoto Website, Twitter
Great Leap LA Website
In the final part of our mini-series which has been focusing on how and why our social health has impacts on our physical health Julian talks to Cormac Russell. Having described the how and why social relationships are so important to human health and wellness, in so many different ways, the next question is what on earth can we do about it. There is no better place to start than with Cormac’s work, Asset Based Community Development. Cormac describes how community building works, how it must be built on relationships and what is strong in communities and how professionals need to prioritise this over their services. It is only through the relationships that are built through community can we hope to solve the many, many problems the world faces.
Transcript available here on our website
This week Julian talks with Cormac Russell, student and expert practitioner at the same time of Asset Based Community Development (ABCD) and founder of Nurture Development. Cormac grew up in rural Ireland, embedded in the warmth of his community. He studied psychology and philosophy to doctoral level, working in the field of child psychology. His ambition to do what is helpful to his fellow citizen, combined with clear insight into what he was doing, led him to believe that institutions were not the way to best help the children contained within them. As Cormac quotes ‘it takes a village to raise a child’. Children are in need of security, physical and emotional nourishment and a sense of belonging, much of which is best provided by communities. He researched different initiatives that might help develop this approach and when he came across the work of John McKnight he instantly recognised that this approach provided exactly what he was looking for.
Cormac spent the next few years communicating with, learning from and implementing the work of ABCD, initially within child psychology. But he knew his time was up and that ABCD had so entranced him, he started Nurture Development to spread it more widely. Over the last 20 years, he has travelled the globe supporting communities and professional organisations, whether this be healthcare, social care, political bodies and others, to start using community development. The starting point of this, as Cormac says, is to find out what is strong, not what is wrong. It is also to discover the gifts we all have that can benefit our community. And a gift is not a gift without a receiver, so we had better work out how we can give this gift and who it might benefit from it. Communities are built from there. Cormac’s latest book, Rekindling Democracy: the professional’s guide to working in citizen space’, highlights the journey for professionals and community members alike on how to become community builders rather than community disablers. Nurture Development now have a training platform, The Community Renewal Centre, for anyone who is interested and willing to dip their toes into the world of Asset Based Community Development
Things mentioned on the podcast:
Cormac Russel - Rekindling Democracy
Cormac Russell Twitter
Centre for Community Renewal
Asset Based Community Development
Angela’s Ashes
John McKnight Building Communities From the Inside Out
Peter Macfadyen Flatpack Democracy
Blog about Pokot
Holly Prince episode of SotK
Parker Palmer
Peter Block
Jody Kretzmann
Tom Dewar
The Littlest Hobo
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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''How the world we live in, the things around us, the things in our head, the people around us, how all of that kind of stuff gets into our bodies and changes the way the genome functions''
This week Julian talks to Dr Steve Cole, Professor of Medicine and Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences who has a fantastic understanding of precisely how stress, and life in general, changes us on a cellular level. Having discovered in his some of his earliest research that gay men with HIV in the closet were getting sick and dying ‘20 to 30% faster than those who were out of the closet’ he came to realise that there were huge gaps in our understanding of how illness affects people differently and genetics was not answering all of the questions.
In his work since, and throughout this podcast, Dr Cole has elucidated the historic and evolutionary reasons that our immune system shuts down when we are dealing with stress, or lonliness, or PTSD, and the like. He talks about what is happening in our cells that means that people who live under duress develop certain illnesses at much higher rates than those that don't, how this plays out in racialised communities, and what the opposite is of this on a cellular level. What are the types of happiness, and what do they bring? And how can we plan for that at a population level.
ELEVATE COMPASSION - FREE Lunch and Learn
Join a unique session with three leading compassionate community developers in Canada, expect a lot of conversation, resources to help create more compassion within your community, and a new network of people in Canada and North America.
Register Here
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
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As part of a three part series we are rebroadcasting three episodes that make up the how and why social health impacts disease. The first one is this episode with Professor Julianne Holt-Lunstad. Her research speaks for itself.
All of these podcasts highlight the importance of social interaction, the importance of compassion, the importance of research and new ideas in this arena, and the importance of being kind to ourselves and to others.
This weeks episode is with Dr. Julianne Holt-Lunstad. Her CV is impressive and her cannon of work has been making huge moves to change the way we live our lives in silos and with increasing deficiencies in our social relationships.
Transcript available here
Dr Holt-Lunstad is a psychologist at Brigham Young University and a fellow of the Society of Experimental Social Psychology and Association for Psychological Science. In this fascinating conversation she discusses her major pieces of research (on how relationships impact health and mortality rates, on how loneliness also affects this, and her current study on the impact of relationships between clinicians and patients) on working with Vivek Murthy, addressing the senate, working with the app Nextdoor and on her hopes, wishes and designs for the future. Dr Holt-Lunstad’s papers show irrefutably the positive impact on mortality that social relationships have, and ‘with every increase in social connection there was a decrease in risk’.
In the past year the world has seen more rifts and traumas come to the fore that many of us could have imagined to be possible; from the pandemic, to the wildfires, to the aggression towards black bodies (particularly men) across the world, and so much more. Dr Holt-Lunstad’s work gives us the opportunity to heal some rifts and shows that something as simple as 'interacting with our neighbours might be a way to heal some of the political divisions’, something that is more needed now than ever, and will only grow more important in days to come.
The app Nextdoor can be found here
Dr Julianne Holt-Lunstad’s twitter
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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After losing their son Joshua in a road accident in Vietnam, Jane and Jimmy were thrown into the reality of what all parents know to be their worst nightmare. In this episode they talk to Julian about their journey from before Joshua died, through the initial stages of grief, and how they now are both still learning to live in this reality, and how they are helping others through the many films they have made, the retreats that they run, and through their charity the Good Grief Project.
It is hard to live as a bereaved person in our society. We think of grief as something to move past, or to handle, and as Jane and Jimmy mention - bringing grief into day to day life is largely frowned upon. Their work educates the bereaved and non-bereaved alike, showing us all that there are many ways to be after losing someone, and that the most helpful thing you can do is be content with the heaviness of life and death.
Good Grief Project website, twitter
Films: All available here
Beyond Good Bye
Say Their Name
A Love That Never Dies
Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van De Kolk
Guests at Beyond the Mask screening:
Kathryn Mannix twitter
Lucy Selman twitter
Amber Jeffrey twitter
Ben and Jack, The New Normal twitter
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Dr Tyson Yunkaporta’s book Sand Talk is a favourite Julian’s, and in this podcast Tyson takes us on a tour of indigenous knowledge, looking at how we would have lived in the past, to where we are now, and point at spots in the transition which we are anaesthetised to, but which make little to no sense for helping us to live better, fuller, more responsible lives with less health &c, and general world problems.
From Tyson’s perspective - one that is hard to disagree with - our use of shame, of division, of punishment, etcetera, is creating spaces for narcissists to lead over people who care, for lies to go unchecked over truth and reason, and unless we learn how to deal with people’s mistakes without piling on shame and guilt in unreasonable amounts, this is only going to continue.
We can do this through learning how to have boundaries, through stories, through reconnecting with a language which reflects the land rather than one which continues to bifurcate itself into abstraction. There is so much to learn and Sand Talk should be on the reading list of all SotK listeners.
Sand Talk by Tyson Yunkaporta
The Entangled Life by Merlin Sheldrake
Peter Macfayden Survival of the Kindest episode
Yothi Yindi band
Semiotics: signs and signifiers, how language exists in abstraction from everything else (also see Derrida and Baudrillard if you want to learn more!)
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Panagis was brought up in the warm hearted and closely knit Greek community in Baltimore. He found that he was naturally good at studying. This was no big deal to either him or his friends. His ability in studying was the same as his friend’s athletic ability. Panagis decided that he would become a doctor. After all, no one from his community became a doctor so it would be good for everyone. He had no idea what being a doctor would be like, but he went ahead and trained anyway.
Once he had qualified, Panagis worked in the Johns Hopkins Hospital, near to where he was brought up. Listening in to consultations, he found the advice given to people he knew well from his community was inappropriate. Being told to exercise by walking in a place where someone had been murdered the previous day just wasn’t going to happen. Knowledge of the community, knowledge of people’s lives and the circumstances in which they live, is critical to helping them to avoid disease, lead healthy lifestyles, get regular check ups and manage disease as best as possible in the community once it has arrived. Along with a colleague, he cofounded Medicine for the Greater Good. This programme has grown enormously, and is being rolled out in other centres that make up the Johns Hopkins group of Hospitals.
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For both Jack and Ben the loss of their fathers in their teens and early twenties was the worst thing that could have happened. Grief at any time is awful but for two young men who had such strong and loving relationships to their dads, this was worse than either of them could have imagined and words can’t do justice to the pain that losing your best friend as a young man can do. However, after a fateful trip to the hairdressers Ben and Jack were able to support each other through the varying stages of grief, and eventually started The New Normal charity.
Growing from two men supporting each other to an international community of people who have found a place to speak about and listen to others speaking about grief, Jack and Ben are teaching men, women, and all of us how we can create space for grief, how to live with the pain, and how we can find support and love in others.
Ben May twitter
Jack Baxter twitter
The New Normal website, twitter
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Dr Saul Ebema is someone who stays with you long after you have heard him talk. The work that he does now is enough of an accolade to make him an inspirational person; as a hospital chaplain completing his PhD in meaning making at end of life, he realised that there wasn’t enough out there for chaplains, and no place to share what they knew. What he started then has now grown into a movement which is educating everyone from doctors to non-medical people about what death is, and what spirituality, and community, and kindness, can offer us at the end of our life.
His early life story makes his work today all the more remarkable. Most notably he was torn from a happy family life, by seeing his parents brutally murdered in front of him, and then bounced to refugee camps, to being kidnapped, to more escapes, the murder of his brother, and continues through homelessness, risk of deportation &c.
To say he is extraordinary is an understatement: his honesty about the ever present PTSD, how he has grappled with the many very complex reactions to being consistently dealt such a hand, and how football has been a lifeline as a metaphor for how to bounce back. There is so much to learn about compassion from guests such as Dr Ebema, and his own podcast is another huge source for anyone who wants to draw more on his, and the collective wisdom of hospice chaplains.
This episode contains difficult content.
Hospital Chaplaincy Website
Hospital Chaplaincy Show Website, Apple Podcasts
Julian on Hospital Chaplaincy Show
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
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This week Julian talks to Dr Steve Cole, Professor of Medicine and Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences who has a fantastic understanding of precisely how stress, and life in general, changes us on a cellular level. Having discovered in his some of his earliest research that gay men with HIV in the closet were getting sick and dying ‘20 to 30% faster than those who were out of the closet’ he came to realise that there were huge gaps in our understanding of how illness affects people differently and genetics was not answering all of the questions.
In his work since, and throughout this podcast, Dr Cole has elucidated the historic and evolutionary reasons that our immune system shuts down when we are dealing with stress, or lonliness, or PTSD, and the like. He talks about what is happening in our cells that means that people who live under duress develop certain illnesses at much higher rates than those that don't, how this plays out in racialised communities, and what the opposite is of this on a cellular level. What are the types of happiness, and what do they bring? And how can we plan for that at a population level.
ELEVATE COMPASSION - FREE Lunch and Learn
Join a unique session with three leading compassionate community developers in Canada, expect a lot of conversation, resources to help create more compassion within your community, and a new network of people in Canada and North America.
Register Here
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released.
In 2017 Matt Hawkins and Jennifer Nadal started a campaign that sought to push compassion as a functional and useful political tool, and since then they have been fighting on all fronts, from training, to lobbying, fundraising, awareness raising, to help MP’s and other people in positions of power to learn how to use compassion as a driver of change.
In this conversation with Julian, Matt clearly lays out how our whole society is set up to suppress any compassionate and empathetic impulses that politicians, and people, may have. The battle to change this is long, however Compassion in Politic’s approach has been fantastically successful, and gives us all much hope for the future as well as something we can hold on to that can be transformative: ‘Try to adopt compassionate practices in your own life and towards yourself, and you instantly will have transformative change. And because of the way the system doesn't want you to be compassionate, it wants you to feel bad; compassion is not built into our society. So if you do that, you're instantly doing a bit of a rebellious act’
Compassion in Politics DONATE, Twitter
Matt Hawkins Twitter
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
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Dr Kwadwo Kyeremanteng’s remit seems to span the entirety of health care, human care, and the systems that support it. His conversation with Julian weaves together systemic racism, ITU, critical care and palliative care, under the bracket of working hard to make things better for as many people as possible.
Alongside starting the amazing podcast ‘Solving Healthcare’, he is also an ICU and Palliative care consultant, and has founded the Resource Optimisation Network which is leading research into how hospitals can run more efficiently, by making sure that patient’s are involved in their care decisions; making sure they know how the treatment will affect them in later life, making sure families and friend’s of patients are included in this as well.
Hearing Kwadwo talk is inspiring, not least because he is building a new vision of a more connected health care system, in terms of clinical practice, as well as in terms of patient-doctor relationships, and a more thorough approach which has a higher awareness of its costs and implications of treatment (human and fiscal).
Dr Kwadwo Kyeremanteng Twitter, Website
Solving Healthcare Podcast Twitter
Resource Optimization Network Twitter
Julian on Solving Healthcare Podcast
Podcast Extra:
Involving people with intellectual disabilities in end-of-life decisions
Understanding Trauma
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
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Professor Dacher Keltner’s work focuses on how compassion enriches our life, and how much its absence effects our lives and how the ability to not be compassionate is learned and created. His work is reshaping what we know and understand about kindness, and what seems to be its antithesis, power. He was the advisor for the film Inside Out, which caught many of us unawares with the recognisability of the representation of how we think, how we remember, how we choose, and how all emotions are important, even the hard ones.
Professor Keltner discusses how our history points towards the need for compassion, how we have misunderstood what Darwin and Adam Smith say, and how we ‘have largely been sold a Neo-liberal lie that misrepresents human nature and what matters’.
If you ever need help please call Samaritans free on 116 123 or email jo@samaritans.org or for America https://suicideprevention.wikia.org/wiki/USA
We have a podcast extra on the Survival of the Kindest podcast. This will be placed at the end of the main interview for those people who make it all the way to the end. Our hope is to create a meeting place for podcast listeners. We would like to see a 2 way conversation amongst people interested in exploring matters relating to compassion. We will chat about latest news, events, feedback, questions, educational activities and whatever our audience see fit to bring up. We at Compassionate Communities UK will be expanding our activities over the coming months, with live events, discussion, education and much more. Please get in touch to let us know your small things that have made big differences, things going on in your area, or anything you want to talk to us about.
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
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Elevate Compassion Summit Series 17/18 June, FREE registration, online lectures
Amber Jeffrey had her life interrupted at the age of 19 after the sudden death of her mother. Nearly five years on Amber is now at the front of an incredible movement which has brought conversations around grief to areas that it had been previously left out of. So often we associate palliative care, death and dying with cancer and old age. But as Amber and Julian discuss, grief touches everyone young and old, from every community.
Her podcast Grief Gang has welcomed listeners in their thousands, each of them desperate for a community of people who understand what it is to live with grief. The huge instagram following and the heartbreaking honesty of the comments is a testament to the need for what Amber created: space and other people to sit with you.
Amber has both created and collated a huge pile of resources that seem to leave no one left out, creating a minefield of signposts pointing those newly, and oldy, grieved in the direction of support. As a small sliver of example; with 5 other black and brown communities Amber started The Grief Safe Space, and is generally doing incredible work diversifying the bereavement communities. The Grief Gang instagram is packed full of songs, books, comments and tiktoks that have been important to people and there is so much more in this episode and on The Grief Gang’s podcast!
Amber Jeffrey Twitter, Instagram
The Grief Gang Instagram, Twitter, Apple, Spotify
TNN Website
We have a podcast extra on the Survival of the Kindest podcast. This will be placed at the end of the main interview for those people who make it all the way to the end. Our hope is to create a meeting place for podcast listeners. We would like to see a 2 way conversation amongst people interested in exploring matters relating to compassion. We will chat about latest news, events, feedback, questions, educational activities and whatever our audience see fit to bring up. We at Compassionate Communities UK will be expanding our activities over the coming months, with live events, discussion, education and much more.
If you ever need help please call Samaritans free on 116 123 or email jo@samaritans.org
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Elevate Compassion Summit Series 17/18 June, FREE registration, online lectures
Shoshana Ungerleider MD is on a mission to make dying, talking about dying, and our whole conversations about how we want to be treated in the event of serious illness, part of our social lexicon.
Along aside her work as a general internist she has been part of two award winning documentaries, both on Netflix, is the host of the TED Health podcast, and has started Endwell - a non profit which has gathered a huge following from all walks to life from artists to medical professionals, by being a place where people can learn how to talk about end of life. What started as a conference has now expanded into a groundswell of action inspiring people to take the time to have these all important conversations; from 10 minutes, to a whole wealth of full lectures.
Endwell
Ted health podcast
Extremis Netflix
End Game Netflix
Take ten
Once Upon a Time in Iraq
Jo Abel Episode
Waleed Nesyif Episode
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Allan Kellehear Lecture Series
Elevate Compassion Summit Series 17/18 June, FREE registration, online lectures
This week Julian talks to Michael Turner QC about how he came to be a lawyer, head of the Criminal Bar Association, and what has motivated him throughout his career to keep defending people we see as criminals.
Michael gives not only a comprehensive overview of how the UK court system works, but a clear and compassionate view on how law works - how justice transcends left, right and central politics, how our society has, of late, had the very idea of a-political justice challenged. The conversation is not only engaging and informative but is a reminder to stay interested in what happens in our courts as it is a microcosm of what is happening in our country in general.
While we might not always think of compassion when we think about the law, and lawyers, Michael’s stories highlight just how necessary it is, how it can totally change the outlook of someone’s life, and how the ability to show compassion and discretion is being stripped away from the UK criminal court system.
We have so far to come to get to the point where we can call ourselves a society where the law has social justice at its core. And Michael’s work, and the work of all lawyers who have taken it upon themselves to defend people who would otherwise be condemned, is such a huge part of it and an inspiration.
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This week Julian talks to Paul Wright who was suggested by previous guest Angela Fell.
A lot of Paul’s work has inspired what Angela has been doing in Wigan which is high praise and an adequate introduction for Paul’s amazing work.
What is so lovely to hear about Paul’s work is how much focus he puts on small things being the biggest activators of change. He has seen how asking someone how they are, and being a good and proper listener, are the true foundational skills of a cohesive neighbourhood. While it is not a linear process, as he points out, once you have people talking about how they are, and other people listening, then you have a resource for ideas, for change, and for community. Paul has an understanding of this which seems to guide his whole work and life. And the community that he lives in, and we who get to hear about it, are all the better for it.
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This week Julian talks to BJ Miller. Having started his academic career in the arts, it took a few key events and some time for BJ to come around to palliative care, where he worked as a physician for a time before seeing that many of the soft edges of palliative care are discarded by the medical, despite them being where a lot of care actually takes place. Since then he has worked in organisations that have sought to combine the medical with the other aspects that amount to high quality palliative care.
His work has been revolutionary for many who have come into contact with it, and his general campaign to teach us to live well in the face of terminal illness has seen him interviewed by Oprah amongst others, has an outstanding Ted Talk, and is oft quoted when people talk about death and dying.
His current company Mettle Health ‘addresses the physical, emotional, social, and spiritual needs of anyone contemplating their health, or the health of someone they love’. Having been in the healthcare system both as a patient and then as a doctor BJ understands the difficulty of navigating care, in particular when such a life changing event such as terminal illness, is at the centre of it. Mettle Health guide their patient’s through the process, making sure that the whole circle of palliative care is involved - from ensuring the drugs are right, to making sure that those soft edges, the moments of loving kindness, are also scheduled for.
Hearing BJ and Julian talk about palliative care it is clear how much they have in common, their motivation, and in particular their gradual disillusion with the medicalised, siloed, nature of medicine that led them both to the more holistic environs of death and dying. It is also clear that what they know from palliative care shouldn’t just be refined to those with terminal illnesses. Death and dying is a part of life and we can nurture those soft edges of palliative care from our earliest days - nourishing community, friendship and accountability in our daily lives.
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Transcript available here
This week on the podcast Julian talks to Palliative Care Doctor, and health visionary Naheed Dosani.
Having experienced the death of one of his patient’s who was homeless early on in his medical career he took a small break to consider deeply what he wanted to do in medicine. He then moved into Palliative care, specifically looking at how we are able to administer palliative care to the homeless community.
In the conversation Naheed draws parallels between the treatment of racialised people in medicine and the treatment of homeless people. How medicine favours a euro-centric understanding of community which overlooks how communities can be built in ways that are unrecognised by healthcare, governments and many organisations.
Mentioned on the podcast
Naheed Dosani Twitter, Instagram, Ted Talk
Peach Program
Elevate Compassion Website Sign Up, Twitter, Instagram
Camerados Movement Website, Twitter, Instagram
Inner City health Associates
Insite Project Vancouver - supervised injection site
Previous Episodes Mentioned:
Fritzi Horstman Twitter, Compassion Prison Project, Podcast Episode
Diane Roberts Podcast Episode
Meena and Dipankar Podcast Episode
James and the Lemon Drizzle Cake
Angela Fell Twitter, Podcast Episode
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Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
Transcript available here
This week Julian talks to Christopher Kelly, the founder of Nourish Balance Thrive, which uses functional medicine, and started as a place for athletes who developed health problems to better understand their bodes and enable them to heal without laying drugs on top of the underlying issue.
Today Nourish Balance Thrive is a podcast, a health centre, it has recipes, training advice, and everything you would need to take a totally holistic look at your own health.
Christopher’s innate desire to share meant that after he found success with healing some of his own health problems through changing his diet, he left his job and started NBT with his wife. They have a multitude of success stories, and a podcast with an information back catalogue that seems to cover every health problem. Having started his career as a coder, and thus fully understanding the potential of tech, and dire need to address the health epidemics in America, it seems likely that he will continue to be at the innovative forefront of society.
Mentioned on the podcast
Nourish, Balance, Thrive Website, Twitter
Ben Greenfield Website, Twitter
Robb Wolf Website, Twitter
Paul Graham Website
Ancestral Health Website
Guy the gorilla - Guardian article
Ian Spreadbury Article
Malcom Kendrick Nourish, Balance Thrive Podcast Episode
Angela Fell podcast
Simon Marshall Nourish, Balance, Thrive Podcast Episode
Peter Grey Articles
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Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
Transcript available here
This week Julian talks to medical entrepreneur and health community builder James Maskell. There are many amazing things to dig into from James’ career and life which started in intentional Communities all over the world and has led him through health economics to now running a number of things including heal community - which is a 12 week programme that uses peer support to help people work through illnesses together by mainly addressing the root causes of chronic health conditions, and its associated isolation. James’s initial research showed the huge impact that collective health care can have, but its release coincided with the start of the pandemic, and James quickly realised that a more accessible, online, community set up was needed to address the many impacts of chronic diseases.
The dwindling life expectancy, the exorbitant costs of health care, and the cumulative nature of medicine that deals with the side effects of other medicines have made this an emergency, and the HealCommunity technique addresses all of this. Once again it is clear to see that the community method, empowering people to be a part of their own healthcare, and creating spaces for everyone to support and help one and other and for natural gifts to shine through, is the best method.
Mentioned on the podcast
James Maskell Website, Free Audio Book, Twitter
HealCommuntiy Website
The Evolution of Medicine Podcast
Dr Jeffrey Bland Website
Dr Mark Hyman Website
Dr Shilpa Saxena Website
Dr James Gordon Website
The Dawn Wall Documentary Netflix
The Cleveland Clinic
Five components of health:
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Sleep
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Food
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Relationships
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Stress
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Exercise
Transcript available here
This week Julian talks to Angela Fell, who has been at the centre of a huge transformation in her area in Wigan, which has focused on how to stop relying on outside schemes, and instead starting to use the “treasures” of the neighbourhood that they have already. Under Angela’s expertise they have tapped into the spaces, the skills, and the motivation and kindness present in their neighbourhood, to start building it up, and piecing it back together.
Angela has such fantastic insight into how communities work having been involved from the very start of her career, as well as seeing the results of mechanisms and schemes which provided her with extra help in school that many of her classmates were not given. From working with young people Angela’s route to where she is now is fascinating, and she is steeped in fairness and in giving everyone space to develop. From her we can all learn how tiny differences in the way help is given and offered have huge impacts on the way they are received in the community.
Things mentioned in the podcast (in order of appearance)
Angela Fell Twitter
Dibs: In Search of Self
Summerhill School
Forest School Camps
Rekindle School
Radical Help Hilary Cotton
Map of Misery (article explaining what it is)
Camerados Movement
Maff Potts Talk, Twitter
FlatPack Democracy
Asset Based Community Development
Fur Clemt Facebook
The Food Pantry
Give it a Grow
My Life Charity
Incredible Edible
Neighbourhood Democracy Movement Website, Twitter
James and the Lemon Drizzle Cake
Angela is introduced by Cormac Russell who can be heard on our podcast here, and found on Twitter
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
Transcript available Here on our website
This week on the podcast Julian talks to Frederick J. Riley, from Weave: The Social Fabric Project, part of the Aspen Institute. Julian and Frederick talk about how his early life, in the largely segregated city of Saginaw, Michigan, taught him how much you can share even when you don’t necessarily feel like you have a lot. How studying at Morris Brown University amongst other African American students, surrounded by the history and present of the civil rights fight, gave him the belief that he could do anything; that him and his peers could be leaders too.
Frederick’s work after leaving university was initially with the YMCA, with whom he worked for a long time up until over a year ago where he was head hunted to become the executive director of Weave. As Frederick explains in this fantastic episode, despite the huge rifts in society, the ghettoisation of huge areas, the laws and legislation that make it so hard for marginalised communities to find a way out of oppressive poverty, there are many people who are turning up for their community, and Weave is there to support them. It’s aims are fantastic, and the means by which they work are equally as brilliant. Frederick’s work is about the bravery of compassion, coming together to make change, and trusting in the gifts in each community.
Things mentioned in the podcast:
Frederick Riley Twitter
Weave Website, Twitter, Instagram
The Aspen Institute, Website, Twitter
Robert Putman Twitter
Asiaha Butler film
Jorge Perez Twitter
Cormac Russell SotK Ep, Twitter
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released.
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
Transcript available Here on our website
In the week where Derek Chauvin is to stand trial for the murder of George Floyd, Julian talks to Dipankar Mukherjee and Meena Natarajan, who founded and run the Pangea World Theatre on the street on which the murder took place. While they have focused in the last year on responding to COVID and then to the riots and protests that followed George Floyd’s death, the main theme of their careers has been about ‘illuminating the human condition, celebrating cultural differences, and promoting human rights by creating and presenting international, multi-disciplinary theatre’. They centre community, ancestors, connection to people and place, and widen what theatre means, how it can be sacred, healing, educational and accessible for everyone.
Having both grown up in India, each with a connection to their own historic dramaturgical roots that extend thousands of years back, they were also both educated under a colonial system that placed western literary traditions as the pinnacle of theatrical development, which brings with it the baggage of theatre belonging to a particular section of society.
Meena and Dipankar have worked for 25 years to use the sacred space of theatre as a means to re-enfranchise people in their community, to understand the wisdom held by the local Dakota and Ojibwe tribes, and to integrate authentic responses to the world in a creative and inclusive manner.
Things mentioned in the podcast:
Pangea World Theatre Website, Twitter
Longfellow Rising
Indian theatrical and literary traditions:
Natya Shastra
Tagore
Kutiyattam
Kathakali
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
CW: Abuse, Adverse Childhood Experiences, Trauma
Transcript available here on our website
Fritzi Hortsman’s life turned around when she started to learn about trauma, and adverse childhood experiences. The insight into something which had flavoured her entire life, and the ability to now address this that that had laid dormant and unacknowledged for so long, also formed part a great compassionate drive and inspiration to start the Compassion Prison’s Project. Fritzi’s understanding that we can be almost exclusively shaped by adverse childhood experiences, and that this is far more present in society that we would care to admit, coincided with her visiting a prison for the first time. Instead of seeing what we are trained to see, (ne’er-do-wells) she saw kindred spirits. Fellow human’s also suffering, also weighed down, also living in a state of constant fear created by the experience of many great traumas.
Her work has allowed so many to access emotions for so many men and women who are suffering imprisonment, to find forgiveness for themselves so that they can move beyond living in the moment of trauma that they are in. Her extraordinary film Step Inside the Circle shows how the impact of trauma shapes our society, how many of those we imprison are actually some of the most traumatised people, and that becoming a trauma aware culture has unlimited transformational potential.
Mentioned in the Episode:
Fritzi Hortsman Twitter
Compassion Prison Project Website Twitter DONATE
Step Inside the Circle
The Defiant Ones Trailer
Hustle 2.0 - A Mail Based Correspondence Program For Incarcerated People
John Kabat-Zinn
The Body Keeps the Score - Bessel van der Kolk
The Presence Process - Michael Brown
Thomas Hübl
Vincent Feletti, Robert Ander research (ACE and adult health)
The Aspen Institute - Weave
ABCD Institute started by John McKnight
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
‘We can’t expect children to recover from mental health or trauma unless we keep them safe’
Our guest this week is Stephanie Hunter, who has develop award winning mental health and trauma services for children in care, and who has just made a film with Social Work England about our care system.
The deep compassion with which Stephanie has approached her career seems to lay behind the transformative nature of her work. She talks enthusiastically about the value of being cared for, how much she has learnt from every interaction with young people in care, and how to become trauma informed, and the importance of learning more about trauma as a society. At the moment people who live with the after effect of adverse childhood experiences can die up to 20 years earlier than the general population, the likely hood of them self-medicating with substances, or risk taking behaviours is so much higher.
This is a public health emergency and the knock-on effects are serious and involve our justice system, the NHS, the workplace. By not taking adverse childhood trauma seriously we are leaving many people stranded. Stephanie’s work, and her continuous fight on behalf of care leavers is changing lives, and is proving that many people can live happy and healthy lives after having help, compassion, and care with PTSD.
Stephanie’s main message is that there is hope, and there are fantastic treatments, and people can live a life without the weight of trauma holding them down, but we must all work to normalise becoming trauma literate, and be a part of the solution.
Stephanie Hunter Twitter and Email
Information on EMDR
James Redford Paper Tigers
Gabor Maté (work on addiction and substance abuse)
Dan Hughes Pace Model
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Transcript available here on our website
On this week’s episode Julian talks to Patrick Abrahams who started the Men’s Shed in Frome. Patrick’s aim in moving to the countryside was always to start a Shed, to provide a place where men could gather, and through stories, over coffees and biscuits, woodwork and plans, find connection, something which many men of post-retirement age lose after they have left work.
Patrick’s stories make us feel like we are part of the shed too, like we can be in on the jokes that come from treating everyone with respect and allowing them to come as they are. His tales are imbued with the camaraderie that seems to be common amongst shedders, and the pathos and depth that naturally arise in supportive communities.
From building coffins for the member’s (at their request), to opening up the conversation about prostate screenings and never running out of tea, the Men’s Shed (and there is now a Woman’s Shed and a Young Person’s Shed in Frome too) embodies the ethos of collective responsibility that community can bring; a shared compassion for one and other in its most uncomplicated form. As Patrick says, compassion is more than empathy, ‘its action oriented as well’ and that can just mean going to a shed, and having a conversation, and that in itself can be transformational.
Patrick was nominated by Peter Macfadyen who can be heard talking on the podcast here
Things mentioned on the episode:
Shed Happens Podcast
Men’s Shed Frome
Men’s Shed Association
Jenny Hartnoll twitter
Frome Medical Centre
Critchell School
Buurtzorg
Source FM
Frome FM
ASSET BASED COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT (ABCD)
Flatpack Democracy 2021
Compassionate Communities
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released.
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
Transcript available here on our website
This week Julian talks to esteemed Professor Dilip Jeste MD, whose latest book ‘Wiser’ is the culmination of years of developing a scientific, medical and spiritual understanding of wisdom, what it means, how we measure it and what it effects.
In his youth and medical training in Pune, India he was imbued with an understanding that is ingrained in Indian cultures that wisdom comes with age, and is necessary for our survival. Since then he has had a distinguished medical career which started in Mumbai and led him to the US. He started a Geriatric Psychiatry program from scratch at UC San Diego; today it is one of the largest Geriatric Psychiatry Divisions in the world, did a stint as the President of the American Psychiatric Association where he introduced a number of pioneering medical interventions and guides, and did a series of groundbreaking psychiatric studies on numerous areas, with his main areas of research include schizophrenia, neuropsychiatric interventions, and successful ageing.
Professor Jeste has much to teach us about being wise, how we can measure and improve our wisdom, and how to reframe how we see mental health as a society. In this incredibly educational and moving episode he talks about how his eastern roots guided him and his research, what he wants to change in our healthcare system, how we can prepare our young people to be more robust against the plague of loneliness, and how we can take care of one and other and ourselves.
Wiser is out now
Mentioned in the podcast:
DSM5 - Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Introduced by Prof Jeste in his time as the head of the American Psychiatric Association.
Juliane Holt-Lunstad who can be heard on our podcast here
San Diego Wisdom Scale
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
Transcript available here on our website
This week Julian talks with Cormac Russell, student and expert practitioner at the same time of Asset Based Community Development (ABCD) and founder of Nurture Development. Cormac grew up in rural Ireland, embedded in the warmth of his community. He studied psychology and philosophy to doctoral level, working in the field of child psychology. His ambition to do what is helpful to his fellow citizen, combined with clear insight into what he was doing, led him to believe that institutions were not the way to best help the children contained within them. As Cormac quotes ‘it takes a village to raise a child’. Children are in need of security, physical and emotional nourishment and a sense of belonging, much of which is best provided by communities. He researched different initiatives that might help develop this approach and when he came across the work of John McKnight he instantly recognised that this approach provided exactly what he was looking for.
Cormac spent the next few years communicating with, learning from and implementing the work of ABCD, initially within child psychology. But he knew his time was up and that ABCD had so entranced him, he started Nurture Development to spread it more widely. Over the last 20 years, he has travelled the globe supporting communities and professional organisations, whether this be healthcare, social care, political bodies and others, to start using community development. The starting point of this, as Cormac says, is to find out what is strong, not what is wrong. It is also to discover the gifts we all have that can benefit our community. And a gift is not a gift without a receiver, so we had better work out how we can give this gift and who it might benefit from it. Communities are built from there. Cormac’s latest book, Rekindling Democracy: the professional’s guide to working in citizen space’, highlights the journey for professionals and community members alike on how to become community builders rather than community disablers. Nurture Development now have a training platform, The Community Renewal Centre, for anyone who is interested and willing to dip their toes into the world of Asset Based Community Development
Things mentioned on the podcast:
Cormac Russel - Rekindling Democracy
Cormac Russell Twitter
Centre for Community Renewal
Asset Based Community Development
Angela’s Ashes
John McKnight Building Communities From the Inside Out
Peter Macfadyen Flatpack Democracy
Blog about Pokot
Holly Prince episode of SotK
Parker Palmer
Peter Block
Jody Kretzmann
Tom Dewar
The Littlest Hobo
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
In the week where we saw town council meetings dissolving into unfettered chaos its seems appropriate that our guest week is Peter Macfadyen, pioneer of Frome’s extraordinary town council. Macfayden talks to Julian about how it runs, how to connect councils to their residents, to the web of support they live in, and have lost contact with.
Peter’s career early career saw him spending a decade away from the UK in Zambia, India and Guyana, working with the rights of disabled people. After moving back to the UK, and getting caught up in the boxing day tsunami in Sri Lanka, Peter focus turned to climate change, and through that he moved towards local community organisations and into Frome’s town council, where he spent ten years.
Peter’s unique stance on how to change the way our communities run was originally put down in Flatpack Democracywhich in turn spawned a movement, which at its core has the belief that true democracy, where the people’s views shape the people’s society, is achievable. There is no manifesto, no ulterior motive for the good of a “party” or political movement; it works by opening up to the town, asking residents what they need, what they lack, giving them continuous access to the council so there is an ongoing flow of ideas and dialogues about things that need addressing.
Since the release of Flatpack Democracy many other towns have taken the bones of Peter’s idea and applied it successfully to their own locale. As this number grows, and we emerge from covid with a government particularly avoidant of listening to its people, there is a hope that the lessons from Frome will be widely applied to shift an increasingly broken democracy.
Peter Macfayden on twitter
Flatpack Democracy 2021 Campaign, twitter
Flatpack Democracy
Rebel Ideas Matthew Syed
Frome Town Council
Braiding Sweetgrass - Robin Wall Kimmerer
Cormac Russel - Rekindling Democracy
Entangled Life - Merlin Sheldrake
Swampy Guardian article
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released.
Email us compassion.pod@gmail.com
This week I talk to consultant in Palliative care Professor Mari Lloyd-Williams. It seems like Mari’s whole life has been about care. From her earliest days where her and her sister played a key role in looking after her Grandmother she understood what it meant to be a carer, what you give and importantly what you receive.
In her work as a doctor Mari has led with this ethos in mind and her work since qualifying has consistently challenged the existing structures. Having trained in Palliative care she remained interested in Psychiatry which she worked in for a year after qualifying. Combining the two areas of Medicine she has done extensive research into depression in people who have terminal illnesses. Mari has questioned not only how we treat the psychological impacts of terminal illness, but also whether the illness or loneliness from the illness are the biggest factors in depression in cancer patients. She has examined and researched how we think about volunteers and voluntary services, and their actual impact compared to paid services.
Alongside being a consultant and teaching, Mari has set up a volunteer led community centre in her own village which provides a support network for people who have all sorts of illnesses and needs, not just terminal prognoses.
Her clinical experience, her research and her community development work seem to hammer home the importance of an holistic care experience which looks at physical health, psychological health, and social health as one whole approach to medical care. She reminds us how important it is to ask people how they are doing, how much of a difference we can make by caring, and what a hugely positive impact that can have on our own lives.
Prof Mari Lloyd-Williams was introduced by Prof Allan Kellehear who can be heard on Episodes 1 and 12
Follow Prof Mari Lloyd-Williams on Twitter
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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This week I talk with Dr Brion Sweeney. Brion was brought up in the warm community of a very rural village on the west coast of Ireland. He went on to study medicine and specialised in psychiatry and psychotherapy. Training in psychiatry at that time included psychotherapy, which is no longer the case. He then developed a special interest in the treatment of addiction. From his earliest days, Brion had an interest in the spiritual and the philosophical components of life. This eventually led him to contact Dr Akong Rinpoche, a Tibetan Buddhist lama recognised at an early age as a reincarnation of the first Akong Rinpoche, a great meditator who led a monastery in a very remote area of Tibet. Dr Akong Rinpoche left Tibet during the Chinese invasion, went to India and subsequently set up Samye Ling Buddhist Centre in Eskdalemuir, in the Scottish borders. Brion became deeply engaged in helping Akong Rinpoche in developing Tara Rokpa Therapy.
The therapy is a way of working with our minds which develops compassion and understanding, for our past, our parents past, our environment and how we move through the world. It draws on the wisdom and compassion of Mahayana Buddhism but does not require any religious faith to become involved or benefit from it. In some ways, it is less a therapy and more a way of developing ourselves as human beings, to make our lives worthwhile and wholesome and this is a journey of discovery and wonder.
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
Follow Survival of the Kindest on Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you like to listen to get our episodes as they are released.
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When she talks about the development of the project she lilts fluidly between its development, and the discovery and uncovering of her own past. She sees connections everywhere and through the investigation of lines between us and our relatives, between us and our community, so we can begin to understand and have compassion for others’ motivation.
The workshop, which is now the focus of her PhD, looks into personal pasts as a method of ‘trying to connect the dots’, of reaching back into history. It lasts a number of weeks and asks participants to embody, research and understand an ancestor that they never knew, and then to focus on one important moment in that relative’s life. In her words ‘there was this line being drawn between their present reality and their ancestral past, a really clear line’ which showed ‘how those stories continue to live in us and go forward in us’
Over the years the workshop has developed, and the attendees have spoken widely about the sustained transformation from the practice. This coincided with Diane’s discovery that it strongly echoed Garifuna practices, which she had discovered, through her own legacy project, was a strong part of her own heritage.
Diane’s work has always been interdisciplinary, sitting at the intersection of many different forms of art, of philosophy, of history, and of community growth. She is now focused on the future of the project, and trying to get it to reach as many people as possible.
‘When you match those stories that are told to you with those stories that live in your body it becomes a very very interesting dialogue’
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This week Julian talks to Gary Crooks. Gary’s life in a mining village in the North East of England was turned upside down by the closure of the mines. From living in a community where ‘were always there for one and other they would give anything to one and other’, they were forced into a situation where ‘the rules were take what you want to take and if you don’t go out and get it its not going to come to you’. People were starving and the original sense of togetherness and rebellion from the start of the miner’s strike turned to ‘a sense of rage, but negative rage, against the government, against the police force and eventually against one and other to some extent.’
Gary, like many others across the country in his situation, were forced to turn to crime as food, fuel and money ran out ‘I began to steal food wherever I could get it […] following the bread man round, we were literally starving’. Gary’s first prison sentence was when he was 15.
Throughout his youth, and while he had to steal to survive, he carried with him a strong sense of justice and standing up to bullies and those who were suffering. As he continued to use crime as a way to survive it culminated in his mother being attacked, and Gary’s urge to defend his mother and seek retribution from the attacker saw him being sent back to prison.
During his second stint in prison Gary became a Samaritans listening volunteer, which he initially saw a road to early parole; ‘I thought I was manipulating people but really I can see I was screaming out for change’. Gradually after a coincidental introduction to campaigner Mandy English Gary’s found that his new work helping people back into society from a plethora difficult situations; ‘Whatever void the crime was filling, helping people filled that void by ten thousand’.
After a wrongful arrest in 2013 Gary teamed up with Mandy English and started a couple of not-for-profit organisations. First Point Training and Positive Direction NE are two fantastic organisations each with a different remit, but both with huge positive impacts. Positive Directions NE works within its local community to help people at risk, from supporting those bereaved through suicide, the homeless, connecting elderly people with primary school children, to just making sure people have had their immediate needs, including their social interaction needs, met. First Point Training works particularly with those who have experienced trauma in their past to help them move onwards to where they want to be.
Gary’s life experience, and his mantra of ‘In a world where you can be anything be kind’ shines through everything he does. When he says at the end of his interview that ‘you don’t have to be alone’, hearing it from him is a comfort. An acknowledgement that even when you are, as Gary was ‘filled with fear [&] screaming out for change and another kind of life, but too terrified to actually walk over the bridge and ask someone for help’, when you reach out and there are people there, it makes all the difference.
First point Training: Website Twitter
Positive Direction NE: Website Twitter
Asset Based Community Development Website, Twitter
Cormac Russel Twitter
Bearpark short film about Gary’s life
Samaritans can be found on free phone 24/7 on 116123, or on email: jo@samaritans.org
If you are struggling with feelings of suicide or know someone who is, please contact the Samaritans.
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Transcript available here
Dr Holt-Lunstad is a psychologist at Brigham Young University and a fellow of the Society of Experimental Social Psychology and Association for Psychological Science. In this fascinating conversation she discusses her major pieces of research (on how relationships impact health and mortality rates, on how loneliness also affects this, and her current study on the impact of relationships between clinicians and patients) on working with Vivek Murthy, addressing the senate, working with the app Nextdoor and on her hopes, wishes and designs for the future. Dr Holt-Lunstad’s papers show irrefutably the positive impact on mortality that social relationships have, and ‘with every increase in social connection there was a decrease in risk’.
In the past year the world has seen more rifts and traumas come to the fore that many of us could have imagined to be possible; from the pandemic, to the wildfires, to the aggression towards black bodies (particularly men) across the world, and so much more. Dr Holt-Lunstad’s work gives us the opportunity to heal some rifts and shows that something as simple as 'interacting with our neighbours might be a way to heal some of the political divisions’, something that is more needed now than ever, and will only grow more important in days to come.
The app Nextdoor can be found here
Dr Julianne Holt-Lunstad’s twitter
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Charles’s insight in to the state of campaigning today highlights so many areas that are open to and ready for change; from the lack of diversity in the sustainability movement which translates to a lack of diversity in Britains parks and nature reserves, to the pitfalls of campaigns which rely solely on rationality and facts, and don’t touch the emotional or spiritual side of nature and our planet.
Clearly there is an urgent need to address the climate crisis, and Charles makes it clear that this is a joint responsibility - ‘life is about connectivity, about cooperation, about looking after each other’, and that includes our planet, its biosphere, its animals and so on. In order to change the bleakness of our future as it looks at the moment we have to pull together, our facts, our stories, our connection to nature, our right and left wing politicians, to make real change: ‘All the elements have to be woven together into a narrative that is not just a story but that leads to real change for people’s lives in the here and now’
Charles has worked with every level of Britain’s hierarchical system and having been put through the wringer of politics and it’s over fondness for talking and distinct lack of action, Charles is still (mostly) hopeful. As he describes it himself -‘I go to bed a pessimist […] but I absolutely wake up as an optimist’. It is in the rest of our hands now to mobilise together no matter how small we feel, or how in effective - we can all wake up optimists.
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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This week Julian talks to three other Palliative Care Physicians about end of life care, having conversations about what matters most, and life and death in the time of Covid. Consultant in Palliative care Professor Mark Taubert, best-selling author and retired palliative care Consultant Dr Kathryn Mannix and Consultant in Palliative care Professor Max Watson bring their extraordinary compassion, innate humanity, years of experience and deep understanding of palliative care into a discussion which is equally moving and entertaining.
This year has seen thousands of us unable to share precious moments with those we love; births, deaths, weddings, divorces, good news and bad news alike, and now Christmas too will be a lonelier affair than normal. These monuments by which we mark life’s passing have gone largely unrecognised. For the palliative care community this has added extra challenges, both emotional and logistical.
Doctors and nurses have become the sole messengers of comfort for patients and families who may never see each other again. They have had to innovate to bring people together, support each other through tough conversations that are happening at the wrong time about lives suddenly cut short. Professor Mark Taubert says : ‘I’ve seen people dying alone and I’ve been fearful, I’ve sometimes been frightened of going into the room, but then I’ve sometimes been not wanting to leave the room once I’ve been in because, you know the person is going to be alone again for such a long time.’
The conversation is peppered with anecdotes that have stayed with the doctors, all four of whom have sat along side thousands of deaths. Hearing fresh sadness from the retelling of stories from 30 years ago underlines what they all say which is that stories are the things that last. That they are how we remember one and other, they are how we communicate about the process of death and dying. Dr Mannix, whose book With the End in Mind ‘give[s] dying back to the public’ by telling stories, says that the stories we build during the process of dying make up ‘a whole family narrative of what happened that they [families] comfort themselves with and becomes the story that takes them safely into bereavement’
For all four of them their desire to educate people about death literacy has been amplified during Covid and all three of the guests have been playing their part in the response both on the front line, and in working with policies and procedures to help healthcare professionals cope. Their underlying message, as Dr Watson phrases it, is that ‘without connection we are not human beings’.
Dr Kathryn Mannix With the End in Mind,Twitter
Professor Max Watson Twitter, Project Hospice Nepal
Professor Mark Taubert Twitter
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Transcript available here
This week Julian talks to art therapist, activist and author Bobby Lloyd. Bobby’s journey took her from volunteering in a Tibetan refugee camp in northern India just after having left school, to (years later) being an art therapist with the same charity and working with displaced persons all over the globe, particularly focusing on the Calais camps in the last few years.
The idea of home, for those of us who have one, is not something that we often think about but for Bobby it has been a focus of her work for many years. She works to get to grips with what she calls ‘a deep longing, a cultural disorientation, a yearning for home’ that refugees experience, and has spent years ‘trying to understand a bit about what home meant and wether you could take it with you, what did that mean? What was the internal understanding of home?’
As Bobby knew that in her hardest years having a sketchbook had been a resource and a source of comfort, she wanted to ‘take the art out into the community, and put the art into service’. Bobby’s mission is undoubtedly one of compassion, and despite what seems like an interminably and formidably hopeless space she continues to bring art, and generously share its healing properties. As she says ‘Art doesn’t belong to me and it doesn’t belong to art therapy’. By bringing it to some of the hardest places Bobby also brings hope, connection, and possibilities.
‘The visual arts can reconnect [us] with home’
Bobby is introduced by Maddy who can be heard in episode 14
Bobby’s Twitter, her books can be found here and here
Art Refuge Website, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram - please donate, follow and share
‘The visual arts can reconnect [us] with home’
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Adrian has travelled extensively in the Middle East; from his first journey there as a post-school adventurer saw him arrive into Syria on the day they withdrew from Lebanon in 2005. Now a fixture in Beirut he talks about the reality of the influx of refugees from Syria in recent history, and from Palestine before.
Throughout the conversation Adrian explains his understanding of the middle east, and his view of it as the intersection of East and West, where language, racism, and citizenship hold different meanings to how they are understood in the West. He cites Lebanon as the ‘country that has seen it all’ and elucidates its millennia old history to prove the point.
He sees this turbulent area of the world, which continues to struggle with the impact of colonialism and its aftershocks, as a place which, for westerners ‘breaks our conception of boundaries’. The fluidity of race, religion and language in this area has been the status quo for many hundreds of generations, and there is beauty and empathy throughout.
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This week Julian talks to Frome town councillor, former mayor, and long-time friend Sheila Gore about making a difference. Sheila originally worked as a teacher, and in education for the Natural History Museum working with a large community of parents and children up and down the country. As of now, Sheila has been living in Frome for around 20 years and the former owner of the first health-food shop in Frome she has always been at the heart-centre of the town. She describes being a shop owner as being a beacon, being available and seen by residents. After many years of listening to residents, hearing their struggles and their wishes for the town, and one fight against a large supermarket development Sheila became ensconced in the town council, which was the UK’s first fully independent council, and from there she became mayor.
Her ethos, and the aim of the council in general, is that everyone should be listened to, even those that disagree and those that may present conflict. In Sheila’s eyes, the connection between residents and councillors is integral to Frome’s success - the direction of the town is decided by what is best as defined by residents rather than governance far outside of the town’s boundaries.
The story of Frome, and particularly from Sheila’s perspective is one where small things can always make a huge difference; from checking on five neighbours during covid, to sporadically buying a whole food shop.
More information on Flatpack Democracy can be found here (and the book can be bought there too)
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Frome Town Council’s homepage is here
This week Julian talks to PhD student, expert in death and dying, and indigenous scholar Holly Prince. Holly came to know about palliative and end of life care through the sudden loss of her friend aged 24 to cancer. Her experience growing up in an Anishinaabe community of how death happens was greatly at odds with what she came into contact with in western medicine.
‘I couldn’t understand where our knowledge was’
Having felt the work of a community involved with the death of its members, Holly was shocked at the manner of dying in hospices and hospitals. The exclusion of tradition, and the lack of information doctors to carers, encouraged Holly to learn more. After meeting Mary-Lou Kelly she was thus pulled into the academic study of palliative care and started to do extraordinary work on community dying. Having spent much of her academic career looking at how to integrate palliative care and first nations communities, her studies have now come full circle; Holly’s PhD focuses on how to decolonise end of life care in first nations communities; how to use the resources that are inherent in their way of life.
Holly and Julian touch briefly on the historical atrocities committed by the Canadian Government to first nations communities, and the ongoing mechanism of colonialism still very much present in Eurocentric society, with new examples arising daily; First Nation communities live with the aftermath of the systematic abuse of culture, of children, and of tradition. It is time for a reckoning, and in Holly’s own words ‘Its up to people who are listening to figure out what their responsibility is in this relationship and whether or not they are going to take what I say, and if they are going to use that as an opportunity for their own learning, their own self-reflection their own research on these things ‘
Holly’s story and conversation are nothing short of inpspirational as well as informative.
‘Your life is part of a larger process and you are accountable to all your relations'
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The feeling of hopelessness when faced with the climate crisis is something that many of us will recognise. For Maddy it felt like despite the world’s efforts, her community’s efforts, there had been no systemic or radical movement towards tackling climate change. However when she came across Extinction Rebellion, and the community that came with it she felt suddenly that change was possible, and that there was hope. Since then she has stayed supporting XR while also working from within the music industry. The task of dismantling the reliance that we all have on fossil fuels sometimes seems too large to comprehend but as Maddy talks it becomes clear that we all play our part, and that we can make a difference. For the music industry that looks like (amongst many other things) divesting pensions, organising tours to involve the least amount of flying, as well as supporting causes such as XR.
There are many ways to get involved, Extinction Rebellion can be found here, Music Declares Emergency is here, and is on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Each month Music Declares Emergency has a show on Soho Radio. You can donate to Music Declares Emergency here.
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Libby’s career has been extraordinary from the start - she cut her teeth on a remarkable project in Kerala run by Dr Suresh Kumar. While in Kerala Libby joined forces with Suresh and friend of the podcast Allan Kellehear to create the first international conference for public health and palliative care. What has grown from this has been transformational in many corners of the globe. Upon returning to the UK Libby has worked at changing the entire way we think about palliative care, she started the compassionate neighbours scheme and radically altered the relationship between Hospice’s and their immediate communities in East London. Our conversation ranged across many areas of Libby’s life from her early memories of her childhood which was partially in Peru and partially in London, her PhD research into how compassion can affect us, to how she is coping as a physician during the coronavirus pandemic.
Information on Compassionate Neighbours can be found here
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We are back this week with Professor Allan Kellehear to discuss the release of his new book Visitors at the End of Life. Allan’s refusal to go into the categorisation of the visions and his focus on what they mean, and what they offer gives a moving look at who they are, what we can learn from these encounters, what to expect from them, and how they make people feel.
Allan’s research was the first trans-cultural study done on these visitations, and as such it offers a new perspective; these are common, and as he says ‘a sign of strength and wellness’ the world over, rather than a western phenomena indicative of mental unrest.
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After a two week hiatus we are back with an extraordinary guest, the environmental campaigner Jonathon Porritt CBE, whose new book ‘Hope in Hell’ works on repairing the cognitive dissonance between our understanding of our role in the climate crisis, and our actions and emotional responses.
His stance on the climate crisis is all encompassing, and is consequently compassionate and inspiring. While encouraging a radical turn away from fossil fuels he reminds us not to forget those whose entire livelihoods are dependent on them. When talking about rising sea levels, the spectre of wealth which has seen the northern hemisphere able secure its cities and lands against floods, compared to the poverty and vulnerability elsewhere, hangs over the conversation.
However, while the destruction of the natural world is happening rather than ‘on its way’, and we appear to have already set in motion a chain of events which will roll us steadily towards the “tipping point” i.e. the point of no return, he is hopeful. He still fights for change, and supports the young generation of campaigners, fighting for the future. He believes we can close the gaps between the recommendations of scientists and policies which do too little, but that we need to connect our compassion to our actions in order to motivate us to change: acknowledging the deep fear we feel when we fully confront the future of our planet can be our hope.
Extinction Rebellion can be found here.
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Paddy’s canon of work speaks for itself, his forays into primary schools, into prisons, to Ethiopia, are all treated with the same compassionate approach. He humanises his subjects, looking for ways to capture how their differences between them and him can be broken open to reveal the deep similarities which make us human.
Paddy’s success in this endeavour is evidenced by the close confidences and relationships he has had with all of the subjects of his many films. He still tears up when remembering moments of tenderness from two decades ago, and treats each story with dignity and, compassion.
Paddy is very honest about his experience of lockdown and how it enabled him to look closely at how he can enact the universal truth he knows through his work - that we are all connected - in his immediate environment, and what has stopped him from doing it before.
In Paddy’s work, and in the conversation, there is so much to learn about empathy and what difference that can make.
Julian was introduced to Paddy by Jo Abel who can be heard in Episode 5
Julian Abel can be found on Twitter
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Waleed’s life story, and personality, are nothing short of extraordinary. He speaks candidly and humorously, revealing the truth of what it means to be a child growing up in a war zone, what that is like in day-to-day life, how he learnt to be human against the backdrop of family members in prison, and losing close friends and many members of his community to the violence of war.
Waleed’s later experiences in the West highlight the difference between being raised in Iraq with war, sanctions, invasions, and being raised in Canada where he now lives. His life, like the life of so many others, has been shaped by the aggression of world leaders, and their proxies who curated environments of fear. However, rather than focusing on difference and negativity, he looks for the similarities, the humanity in all of us, and the moments where he can give and receive compassion. He focuses on the video games we all played in the 1980’s, the music that we all love (for him - heavy metal), and the connections that can be made across political and cultural boundaries.
Waleed is an inspiring man who tells stories that serve as reminders that compassion can be found in dark places, and that rehumanises a period of history that we know well on a geo-political level, but tend to ignore its human cost.
Julian was introduced to Waleed by Jo Abel who can be heard talking about the series in Episode 5.
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Julian and Jason discuss the fascinating contents and implications of Jason's PHD into whether having self-compassion correlates with kindness to others.
Their conversation is a mix of the personal and the academic as Jason takes us through his experiences that led him to nursing, and to his research into compassion for others and for the self. He talks openly about how his experience of racism and the continued othering he felt in Australian society led him to a deeper understanding about the presence and lack of compassion, and how to rebuild it, and how we can extend this to our environs and to the earth itself.
Jason’s work has profound impacts and implications outside of healthcare. His resources engage with self-compassion from a plethora of angles, how to actively apply changes to address what he sees as an imbalance in our relationship between self and outward compassion. His resources can be easily accessed here https://palliativecare.org.au/resources/self-care-matters and are designed to be helpful to us all.
Jason reminds us that to be human is to be interdependent, it means to have love and kindness for everyone, including yourself. He describes himself as a life long student of compassion, and encourages us all to join him.
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Mary-Lou and Holly’s work addresses the disruption of colonisation on (amongst other things) traditional practices, on parenting, on education, on intergenerational communication, on end of life practices, and colonialism’s continuing legacy.
Mary-Lou’s career led her from an undergraduate degree in English Literature where she learnt to observe people’s stories, to delivering pioneering palliative care projects, focused on bringing dying at home back to communities to an area the size of France in remote Canada. Mary-Lou and Holly’s work was community development in its truest form. Giving up control of the project and asking the communities what they needed lies at the crux of the success of their work, where the project bends to fit the community that it is in and not vice versa.
Julian finds out about how the work came about, how it worked, and what happens next for community care for death and dying.
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Full Transcript available here on our website
Ed and Julian discuss Ed’s career, from advising Thatcher’s and Blair’s governments on public sector, to Chair of Relate, to his life now and his commitment to making change on the ground. Ed’s experience and understanding highlights that party politics does very little and that in order to make change we need to start locally.
They visit the new reserach showing how power corrupts, where compassion and humility can fit into politics, and how to stay active and hopeful when facing climate crisis, rampant inequality, and stagnant politics.
Things mentioned on the episode:
Ed Straw’s Website
Stafford Beer
Wildcat Strikes
The Compassion Project
Ed Straw Twitter
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Full transcript available here on our website
Julian talks to award winning documentary maker, and his sister, Jo Abel.
‘I am proud to be the brother of Jo Abel. Jo is a successful documentary producer and director. Two of her most recent documentaries have been Exodus, telling the stories of refugees coming to Europe, and the just aired Once Upon a Time in Iraq. This documentary tells the stories of people who lived through the years of utter turmoil, demonstrating the reality of what the consequences are of making a decision to go to war. We talk mainly about compassion and the lack of it in the context of this extraordinary bit of film making, which everyone should watch. I cannot think of a clearer demonstration of why we should choose to be more compassionate, highlighted against the background of lack of compassion that accompanies violence.’
Things mentioned on the episode:
Boys and Girls
Exodus
Paddy Wivell
Once upon a time in Iraq
Mosul Eye Website, Twitter
For Sama
Ahmed Al-Basheer
Ken Burns
Rutger Bregman
The Dawn Wall Netflix
Tommy Caldwell Instagram, Twitter
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Lindsay Clarke Podcast Episode
Full transcript available here on our website
In this episode of Survival of the Kindest Julian talks to Whitbread Prize winning author Lindsay Clarke. Julian and Lindsay have been friends for a number of years, and Lindsay is the co-author of their book The Compassion Project.
As his own website explains ‘Lindsay’s working life has been devoted to his two principal passions, writing and education. In both contexts he has tried to put the power of the creative imagination – in both its inventive and compassionate aspects – into the service of the radical evolution of consciousness, which he believes is seeking to happen in these transitional times.’
Lin’s commitment to the compassionate imagination, his generosity of spirit and kindness is evident in all the work he has done throughout his extraordinary career. Julian and Lin meander through topics such as Lin’s time educating people around the world, his brushes with neo-colonialism, and how he came to understand and commit himself to the transformative power of stories.
Books by Lindsay:
Alice’s Masque
Chymical Wedding
Sunday Whiteman
Green Man Dreaming
The Water Theatre
Other Books & Authors:
Wollfram von Eschenbach
George Elliot Middlemarch
Stefan Zweig Beware of Pity
Rachel Carson Silent Spring
Grimm’s Fairy Tales
Ted Hughes
James Hillman
James Baldwin
Benton Lewis
Maximillian Kolbe
Pushkin Trust
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Full transcript available on our website here
In this episode, Allan turns interviewer to ask Julian about the background of The Compassion Project. Julian discusses how why he wrote the book and how it draws on themes that have taken 30 years or more to mature. He goes on to talk about why compassion is important and how it can be used throughout our life, whether this be at home, at work, in schools and not to forget politics. Both Julian and Allan answer the two questions asked of all of our guests: about a moment when the smallest thing made the biggest difference and their favourite public moment of compassion?
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Dr Kerrie Noonan is a clinical psychologist and social researcher who has spent 25 years creating a more death literate society, where people and communities have the practical know-how needed to live with dying death and grief. She is involved in so many projects: the founding executive director of The GroundSwell Project and national initiatives Dying to Know Day, FilmLife Project and ComComHub among many others.
Kerrie was awarded her PhD in 2018 by Western Sydney University for her study titled Renegade Stories: A study of deathworkers using social approaches to dying, death and loss in Australia. Kerrie has a Masters degree in Clinical Psychology, a BA (Psychology), and a Grad. Dip. in Systemic Therapy (Family Therapy) and a fellow of the Sydney School for Social Entrepreneurs.
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Our first podcast starts with Professor Allan Kellehear. He is the founding father of public health palliative care. His background is in social science and public health and he became the first non clinical palliative care professor at La Trobe University in 1998.
In this podcast, we discuss the background and basic principles of public health palliative care.
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