Your boy Patrick bringing his best thought and laugh provoking content with a little help from some friends. Interview - Quotes - Pop Culture Panel - Homily - Nashville.
Patrick and Nathaniel reunite after a short break, swap notes on studio upgrades and recent music discoveries, and then welcome photographer and storyteller Isaac Jones. Isaac shares how a personal loss shaped his love for portrait photography, why curiosity drives his creative life, and what it’s like starting over in Paris after 14 years in Nashville. They also talk about his MFA work exploring the tension between faith and sexuality, and how one simple rule of life might be to go on adventures.
Patrick and Nathaniel open with a chaotic cold open, then bring in Blake Farmer — Nashville native, host of NPR’s This Is Nashville, and longtime journalist. They swap stories about East Nashville, Blake growing up on Russell Street, and his early band days...including randomly blowing up in the Philippines. The convo moves into what radio hosting is really like vs. field reporting, plus what people often get wrong about Blake — he’s way less extroverted than he sounds. They get into adult friendships, music influences like Dawes, and close by talking about what makes a good life and why we all keep old t-shirts like they’re tiny time capsules.
Patrick and Nathaniel are back, bouncing between the joys and frustrations of social media, Patrick’s hot dog heavy trip to Paris, and a handful of random life musings. They also talk past jobs (mall kiosks forever), public transit ethics, the urge to hit puddles while driving, and share their Spotify Wrapped and favorite music discoveries from 2025.
In this episode, Patrick sits down with filmmaker Mason Martin to explore his creative journey, the heart behind his storytelling, and what it means to stay present in the process. They talk about the inspirations that fuel Mason’s work, hear some of his favorite quotes and albums, and even debate the best hot chicken spots in Nashville.
In this episode, Patrick sits down with Kim Toliver, Director of Marketing at Goodpasture Christian School, to talk about her winding journey from studying physical therapy to discovering her place in education and creativity. They also touch on the importance of friendship, the power of laughter, and what it really means to be present in life. Kim also shares her love for art, her deep appreciation for ’90s R&B, and her thoughtful (and fun) way of building and sustaining friendships. Enjoy, share, and leave a comment!
In this episode, Patrick sits down with comedian Billy Wayne Davis to discuss his journey in stand-up comedy, the importance of authenticity, and the challenges of pursuing a career in the arts. They talk about the evolution of their careers, the nuances of balancing personal and professional life, and the profound lessons learned along the way. And it's our 100th episode!! Thanks for listening!
In this episode, Patrick welcomes Madeleine Rebouché to discuss her journey from Louisiana to becoming a priest, her work in challenging environments, and her insights on community and humor. Madeleine also shares thoughtful reflections on navigating friendships and finding meaningful connections when you’re new to a city.
In this episode, Patrick sits down with filmmaker and Safe Trip Media co-owner Austin Sena. They explore Austin’s creative journey, from his roots in New Orleans and Knoxville to directing music videos and short films. Austin opens up about the inspiration behind his latest project, Extra, and what it’s like navigating the film industry as an independent creative. They also discuss the wild world of reality TV, the role of AI in the creative process, and more.
It’s been a minute… but we’re back! In this episode, Patrick sits down with Wes Hartline to discuss all things Nashville! It's explosive growth, housing challenges, and how the city is rapidly changing. They also delve into deeper waters: political division, global events, and how we remain grounded and connected through it all.
This conversation was recorded a few months back, but the themes are as relevant as ever.
Thanks for sticking with us!...and yes, more episodes are on the way soon! As always, we’re grateful for your listens, shares, and support.
In this episode, Patrick sits down with Heather Daugherty to discuss her journey in the ministry, her experience working with college students, and the challenges she has faced as a female pastor. Heather also shares insights from her background in the Church of the Nazarene, her forthcoming ordination in the Episcopal Church, and the importance of the church as a multi-generational community. They also share about the significance of proximity in fostering empathy, the role of the church in modern society, and more.
In this episode, Patrick sits down with photographer, world traveler, and podcast friend Jacob Matthews for another great conversation about photography, travel, and storytelling. The discussion dives into Jacob’s journey along the Camino de Santiago, where he reflects on the physical and spiritual aspects of the pilgrimage, the people he met along the way, and how the experience shaped his perspective on life and photography.
Beyond the Camino, Jacob shares insights into capturing the essence of different cultures and landscapes, offering a peek into his creative process and what drives his passion for exploration. Whether you’re a photography fan, a travel lover, or curious about the transformative power of a long journey, this episode is one you won’t want to miss!
Patrick chats with Margaret Ann Philbrick, an accomplished author and storyteller. They discuss her new book, 'House of Honor,' a captivating tale that merges the intrigue of art heists with the legacy of Caravaggio. Margaret shares insights into her creative process, the themes of her work, and her experiences growing up with artistic parents. They also touch on the importance of perseverance, handling criticism, and the impact of art on personal lives.
In this episode, Patrick welcomes guest Andrew Glass to discuss his podcast, "The Unofficial Lipscomb Alumni Podcast," and his journey as a musician. They discuss Andrew's influences and thoughts on balancing work with creative pursuits, and they walk down memory lane to recall an unforgettable trip to New Orleans. The conversation ends with insights on staying curious and the importance of unplugging.
In this episode, Patrick has a conversation with writer and storyteller Raleigh McCool. Raleigh shares his journey to becoming a storytelling fixture in Nashville, including his experiences as an undergrad student and his adventurous stint in Alaska. They also discuss the value of community, the challenges of living with chronic pain, and the joy of bringing stories to life on stage.
In this episode, Patrick chats with pop artist Brynn Elliott, who shares her inspiring journey from Atlanta to Harvard and beyond. Brynn opens up about her family’s musical influence, working with legendary producers, and her journey as a songwriter. She also discusses balancing personal identity with her public persona, staying creative, and more!
https://www.instagram.com/brynnelliott/
In this episode, Patrick interviews Luke Watson. As the co-owner of Third Coast Comedy Club and Silo Market in Nashville, Luke opens up about his path in comedy and entrepreneurship, discussing mental health and the nuances of improvisational comedy. Patrick and Luke also discuss the importance of core memories, family traditions, and the necessity of rest amidst the challenges of overworking in American culture.
https://www.thirdcoastcomedy.club/
https://www.thesilomarket.com/
In this episode of the Patrick Podcast, Patrick interviews Andrew Krinks about his new book, “White Property, Black Trespass: Racial Capitalism and the Religious Function of Mass Criminalization.” The discussion covers the central themes of Andrew's book, including the historical and religious underpinnings of police and prison systems. Tune in for an enlightening conversation that challenges conventional views on public safety and systemic inequality.
Order from NYU Press and use code NYUAU30 at checkout for 30% off!
https://nyupress.org/9781479823857/white-property-black-trespass/
In this episode of the Patrick Podcast, We welcome Kelly Byrd back to the podcast, we chat about her new children's bookstore in East Nashville, and her recently released second book, 'Great Big Ocean Sky', from the 'Far From Home' series. Kelly shares her journey of becoming a small business owner and reflects on how life brought her here. We also get into some societal issues, the importance of self-acceptance, and some effective ways to discover new music. Enjoy!
In this episode of the Patrick Podcast, host Patrick Chappell and Nathaniel dive into a light-hearted yet insightful conversation. They discuss the quirks of podcast recording, the concept of getting 'sea legs,' and share personal anecdotes about sailing and brotherhood. Patrick introduces a theory about why many men in their 20s and 30s are drawn to mixed martial arts. They also touch on the impact of video games for maintaining friendships post-college, the importance of dreaming, and the value of embracing each life experience as it comes. The episode ends with practical tips for discovering new music. Packed with humor and personal insights, this episode is a blend of fun and thoughtful discussion.
It’s been a while! So, we’re taking an episode to get reacquainted. Meet Nathaniel, our new cohost/sidekick/whatever you want to call him as him and Patrick talk about life, music, friendships, and lost luggage. Enjoy.
In this episode Patrick sits down to talk with professor, author, radio show host and fellow podcaster Dr. Lee C. Camp about the journey of his calling, the nature of existential crises, and the lost talent of giving and receiving criticism.
In this very special episode Patrick sits down with good friend Garner Goode (like food) to talk about some stuff but mostly it’s a DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS EPISODE. That’s right, nerds, this one is for y’all. So strap in for a deep dive into America’s most misunderstood hobby and don’t worry, this is just the beginning.
In this episode we welcome back Lindsey Krinks to talk about her continuing work with the disenfranchised and dispossessed of Nashville, new adventures in motherhood, and her new book, Praying with Our Feet: Pursuing Justice and Healing on the Streets.
On this episode Patrick sits down in the green room of Marathon Music Works for an interview with author and speaker Rob Bell in between sets of his introduction to Joy Tour. It turns out that a 2,000 year old tradition still has a lot to say, and it could be exactly what you need to hear in the middle of this dark, cold winter.
In this episode we’re back(!) with pastor, author, and friend of the pod Josh Graves. We talk about about his love of the NBA, his new book, and the challenges, inspirations, and stylistic choices he made during the writing process
Patrick returns again! In this long-awaited episode we sit down with Jackson Sprayberry to talk about lessons learned in the world of education, and how he sees a new generation of kids stepping up to engage with government and policy. Hearts and minds, people!
In this episode Patrick sits with Wes Bender to find out what he’s learned in a life devoted to becoming a leader and nurturing leadership qualities in others, both in the home and in the corporate/nonprofit world.
In this episode we catch up with Jacob Matthews as he prepares for a pilgrimage on the 500 mile Camino de Santiago. We pick his well-traveled brain for adventuring advice and talk about art in many forms, from basketball to wings on a wall.
In this episode Patrick sits down with fitness trainer Jarrod Houston to talk about what happens when things don’t work out as planned, and how he turned that experience into becoming an inspiration inside and outside of the gym.
In this episode Patrick talks with Australian artist Zeek Power about pursuing music, staying balanced, and finding his voice after The Voice.
In this episode Patrick talks with Matt Elrod about leaving the life that was expected of him to break into Hollywood, what he’s learned from his time in L.A., and his three great loves: photography, surfing, and feline fatherhood.
In this episode Patrick welcomes Trey George back to the podcast to talk about his new app, Demo. We get a first-hand look at the development process as well as lessons learned about engagement and branding in a TikTok-dominated landscape.
Welcome to Season Three! Get cozy with Patrick and Ben as they take on the most pressing topics of our time: gas prices, war, economics, and the bonnaroo lineup. After getting well-informed, pour yourself a drink and get cozy with some quotes you can use on your next blind date. It’s always a good time.
In our last interview of the year, Patrick talks with Shana Berkeley about her work as executive director of Corner to Corner and how our version of Jesus affects how we see everything else.
In this episode Patrick sits down to talk with professor, author, radio show host and fellow podcaster Dr. Lee C. Camp about the journey of his calling, the nature of existential crises, and the lost talent of giving and receiving criticism.
Just in time for thanksgiving, Uncle Wes Hartline returns to sit down with Patrick for a conversation about life in your thirties. They discuss school, careers, relationships, and where wisdom can be found in our busy and often confusing lives.
In this long-awaited episode Patrick has a conversation with John Lowry about growing up SoCal, finding Jesus in Kentucky (not what you think) and the big scary world of Conflict Management. They also get into his latest project and share some tips about dealing with conflict in our own lives.
In this episode Patrick sits down with professor and family and marriage counselor Chris Gonzalez for a conversation about the relationships between doubt and certainty, love and fear, and because this is still real life, therapy and COVID-19.
This week Patrick sits down with author Kelly Byrd to discuss her new novel City of Lights. They talk about her inspirations for the book, the writing process itself, a and year in China. There are stories, there are shout-outs, just go with it.
In this very special episode Patrick sits down with good friend Garner Goode (like food) to talk about some stuff but mostly it’s a DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS EPISODE. That’s right, nerds, this one is for y’all. So strap in for a deep dive into America’s most misunderstood hobby and don’t worry, this is just the beginning.
In this episode Patrick talks with Lance Hedrick of Onyx Coffee Lab about giving up on academia and diving into the strange and complicated world of coffee. Whether you’re curious about the best way to brew a cup, how that coffee gets to you in the first place, or if you just want to hear “latte art” and “throwdown” in the same sentence, you won’t be disappointed.
This week Patrick sits down with Josh Jackson, minister at Rural Hill Church of Christ in Nashville, to talk about ministry, race, policing, and community. Josh gives us his secret to staying strong and staying sane as a black man in spaces dominated by whiteness, as well as how we can thrive in a post-pandemic world.
In this episode we welcome back Lindsey Krinks to talk about her continuing work with the disenfranchised and dispossessed of Nashville, new adventures in motherhood, and her new book, Praying with Our Feet: Pursuing Justice and Healing on the Streets.
In this very special 2nd anniversary episode Patrick sits down to be interviewed by friend of the pod David Rubio! What follows is an intimate conversation about music, race, and how he learned to thrive on discussing life’s most difficult topics.
In this episode Patrick interviews Dr. Jackie Halstead: professor, marriage and family therapist, and founder/CEO of Nashville’s Selah Center. She discusses her experiences teaching Christian contemplation in schools and prisons, common misconceptions about spiritual direction, and offers some relationship advice for hard times.
In this episode Patrick interviews Russell Pointer Jr., pastor of Reformation Church Nashville. They talk about growing up in and being shaped by a faith community, and why he chose to stay in his. They explore the relationship between politics and religion, and how a Historic Black College can teach us about diversity.
Make a cup of tea and settle in for Patrick and Benjamin’s review of the Year of Our Lord 2020, where we talk about big changes, lessons learned, and look for inspiration and excitement in the year to come. And whether you want them or not, hot takes are coming. Because this is Patrick!, you should know by now.
Welcome back dear listeners. In our first episode of 2021 Patrick talks with John Michael Elder, a member of the Patrick! team and an all around good buddy. We warm up with a discussion about fatherhood, secrets of a flight attender, and medical school rejection, and then burn it down with some most ridiculous hot takes. Clutch your pearls, people.
Sean Palmer is an author, pastor, and speaking coach in Houston, Texas. In this episode we talk about growing up in Mississippi, his work with Ecclesia, and how to relate to those scary enneagram threes we all know and love.
In this episode our friend Derek McClardy returns for a discussion on restoration, reconciliation, social media, and a new take on the prodigal son (not joking)!
In this episode Patrick talks with fashion designer J. Fields about his path, his priorities, and how he found inspiration during the pandemic. We take time to remember Rasheed Walker, and to examine the roots of the culture of violence that has destroyed so many communities.
In this episode The Podcast’s own Benjamin Roberson breaks down his new album track by track, discusses his musical influences, and takes us through his creative process.
In part two of our Election Special, we cross the aisle to talk to Wes Hartline about the difference between conservatism and the Republican Party, political tactics, single issue voting, and how to stay friends when this is all over.
Broderick Greer returns for Part One of the two-part Patrick! Election Special to talk about our racial and political divides, the history of the black vote, and what he wants to see from the left moving forward
In this episode Patrick talks to Restaurateur Austin Smith about rock bottom and the journey to success, hot chicken, one star reviews, and what making it really looks like.
In this episode Patrick talks to Ethan Summers, founder of Nashville-based Oil and Lumber, about growing up in Utah, how he draws inspiration from his Japanese roots, and what it feels like to get sued by bro-country.
In this episode Patrick sits down with longtime friend and colleague David Rubio to talk about his twenty-five year journey in youth ministry, and how the questions and anxieties of this year are affecting teens and their mentors alike.
In this episode Patrick talks with Josh Graves about his ministry at Otter Creek Church, his approach to writing and teaching, how privilege informs vocation, and how basketball can be worship.
In this episode, Patrick talks to Jacob Matthews about his journey from the pulpit to photography, his travels to Kenya, and what basketball has to teach us about humanity. He takes us behind the scenes of the creative/influencer process and shows us the value of stillness in a hyperactive, competitive world.
In this episode Patrick talks to Chad Martin about being a black business owner in 2020, the value of diversity, and the systemic issues behind buying black. We talk about the importance of being heard in historic times, and why Chad decided to start speaking out.
In this episode Patrick interviews Peloton instructor Chase Tucker about getting out of slumps, adaptive fitness, and where he finds positivity and strength during quarantine.
In today’s episode we talk with Melissa Greene, artist, MDiv and founder of Nashville’s Imaginarium, about what it looks like to be open to an evolving theology, when to ask questions, and when to burn bridges.
Brittany Paschall returns to the podcast to give some perspective on why COVID-19 is hitting black communities harder, and how the BLM movement is exposing faith-based universities. We talk about the desire to return to normal, and why that may not mean what you think it means.
This week we talk to speaker, activist, podcaster and native Aussie Jarrod McKenna about history, faith, and society. We take a hard look at Christianity and try to figure out what practical love looks like in a world where wokeness is becoming increasingly separated from action.
In this episode Patrick talks to Broderick Greer about his journey to the episcopal priesthood, the impact of slavery on American Christianity and life after twitter. They unpack what diversity in churches really means and discuss the work of making movements out of moments.
In this episode Patrick sits down with Brittney Harrison, Restaurant and Hospitality Director at the Frothy Monkey Coffeehouse in Nashville Tn, to talk about women in leadership, diversity in coffee, and the struggles of running a restaurant responsibly during the Covid-19 pandemic.
In this episode we join Derek Mcclardy on his journey through ministry, music, and growing up black in white spaces. We get topical in this one, looking at how racism and police brutality affect individuals, communities and churches of every color, and how to keep moving forward towards a world where black lives matter.
In this episode Patrick talks to boutique owner and designer Kimberly Parker about her journey to the red carpet, where she finds inspiration, and the hope and heartbreak that comes with deciding to live without fear
In this episode Patrick talks to preacher and author Luke Norsworthy about what our monsters can teach us about ourselves, and how to use our failures to keep us centered. It’s a lot more lighthearted than it sounds.
In this episode Patrick talks with enneagram teacher, lawyer, and former pastor Hunter Mobley about what he’s learned in his journey through the enneagram, and what it can teach us about connectedness in a world that is becoming more and more exclusive
It’s the Patrick Podcast’s one year anniversary, and what better way to celebrate than with the pods first and only three-time guest, Wes Hartline. Covid-19 isn’t going anywhere but Patrick and Wes discuss ways to be both a parent and a professional during this pandemic.
In this week’s episode Patrick interviews Mallory Wyckoff, executive director of faith and culture center, professor, and because it’s 2020, a native Floridian. Listen up as she describes the work it takes to make neighbors out of next-door strangers, and lessons learned from being both an actual parent, and a spiritual director.
Back from break, Patrick hits the ground running with Rasheed Walker, CEO of Nashville Pro-Am Basketball league and HUSTLEstrong Foundation. It’s a crash course on how we can come back from even the most hopeless places, and where to find the energy to keep moving forward.
In this episode Patrick is joined by Aaron Morrison, cofounder of ROOTED, to talk inspiration, basketball, and how a pair of tiny Jordans saved him from white-collar misery. The journey to small business ownership can be full of disappointment and sacrifice, but it’s a journey also of hope. So take the lucky breaks when you get them and stay, you know, rooted. Follow ROOTED on IG: @stay__rooted
Welcome to Season Two! We’re kicking off this year with an interview with Jeff McGruder (episode 10), a man who was given every opportunity to quit, but instead used his obstacles as ways to propel him into a successful career in finance and entrepreneurship. Find out where he draws his inspiration, and how he’s using his success to impact his community.
It’s the Patrick 2019 end of year review! Sit back with a nice cup of hot cocoa as Patrick reflects on the first year of the Patrick! podcast and offers some encouragement and excitement for the year to come.
On this episode Patrick sits down in the green room of Marathon Music Works for an interview with author and speaker Rob Bell in between sets of his Introduction to Joy Tour. It turns out that a 2,000 year old tradition still has a lot to say, and it could be exactly what you need to hear in the middle of this dark, cold winter.
The skyline changes every year but how new is New Nashville? It's a complex city with a lot of history so Patrick digs in with community organizer and educator Brittany Paschall to talk about resistance, faith, and the importance of remembering.
In this spicy little number Patrick and Ben (Ep 25) are joined by friend of the pod and Kanye aficionado Brian Schroeder (Ep 006) to dig into life's most intriguing and confusing questions. Is Jesus is King good? Is Kanye real? Why is TikTok? What is an Eboy? Disney plus? All these questions and more will be answered. Patrick goes off, it's great.
This week Patrick sits down with spiritual director, preachers kid, and human quote machine Tristan Wheeler to talk about desire, calling, gratitude, questions, and answers. For example a question would be like “what the heck is a spiritual director?”, and then the answer would be something like: listen to the pod and find out!
On this episode we delve behind the glass curtain to dig into the life and spirit of the mysterious BEN. Find out what quotes make him tic. Find out how a twenty-three year old man gets inspiration from Sylvester Stallone and Thomas Aquinas. Find out if there's indeed more to Ben than music and cheese facts.
On this very special episode Patrick sits down with his godmother, Mildred Kelly. We won’t say they get ninety years of life down in an hour, but they do talk about living, becoming who you were supposed to be, and how to find your way home when things get weird.
The tables are turned this week as former guest of the pod Micah Redding digs deep to find out what makes a kid from Chattanooga into a Patrick. Part origin story, part interview, it’s like a first date without the social anxiety!
In this episode Patrick sits down with Patrick Rodgers, editor-in-chief of the Nashville Scene, to get a glimpse of what it’s like on the front lines of the battle for the soul of a city.
Follow us on Instagram: @thepatrickpodcast Follow Patrick on Twitter: @patrickchappell
Freeing the Firefly: Discovering an Uncontainable God
https://amzn.to/2KqvdLf
Braches Church
http://wearebranches.com/
In this quotes episode Patrick talks with Luke Flener about work/life balance, design, architecture, truth, secrets, and what it means to bet on yourself in uncertain times. Wifi toothbrushes are mentioned, the president is not.
In this episode Patrick sits down with Justin Wright to talk about photography, music, faith, and what it means to be a lifecoach in 2019. Whether you’re a fifth grader who just got dumped or a small business owner, Patrick and Justin have got what you need.
In our first pop culture episode Patrick is joined by Wes Hartline and Jeff McGruder to talk about music, technology, and Nashville’s inevitable collision with the singularity.
The game of thrones finale may be briefly mentioned.
"What you are is God's gift to you, what you become is your gift to God." ―Hans Urs von Balthasar, Prayer
"You are not part of society, you are society. You are not stuck in traffic, you are traffic." ―The meme that changed my life
"I want you to make your own circles." ―Holy Spirit
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
―Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
"When [churches] are divided along racial lines, the power of the gospel to overcome our human differences is denied. But when [a congregation] does by its life together truly overcome this disunity, it is an incredible witness to the miracle of the gospel." ―George Webber
A Color Story App: https://itunes.apple.com/us/story/id1349541906
A Beautiful Mess:
https://abeautifulmess.com/
Filmm App:
apple.co/FilmmApp1
On this episode Patrick sits down with Micah Redding, a world-traveling preacher’s kid and founder of the Christian Transhumanist Association. They talk about Micah’s inadvertent brushes with world events, the challenges of finding and then leading your community, and how different faiths can intersect in surprising ways.
Ep 006 - Interview Episode with Brian Schroeder, one of Patrick's long time friends. Patrick discusses Brian's somewhat backward high school to college experience in the Nashville world and how that shaped his take on everything from mentor-ship to snowmen and Salvador Dali. There is some great discussion of what it means to be concerned about our jenga tower of baggage crumbling and leaving behind just.. us.
Interview Episode! Patrick and (the legendary) Lindsey Krinks dive deep into the reality of homelessness and street ministry. We particularly love Lindsey's beautiful approach to staying open to everyone where they are, and a very insightful garden analogy. Then to top it all off Lindsey drops some major wisdom about self-care.
Enjoy our first homily episode, an eye-opening sequence of stories to take you a little deeper today.
Ep 002 - Adam Stunkle - Interview Episode
Patrick talks life history, college decisions, connection, landing in London for film school, and the freedom to feel your feelings in some of the most difficult circumstances.
Ep 001 - Wes Hartline - Interview Episode
Patrick talks to Wes about life, career, a little bit of politics, and how we can have grace that "inspires good faith" and "allows others to ask questions without feeling belittled or condescended".
This is the article Wes mentions in the episode: https://www.oxfordamerican.org/item/1512-dixie-vodka
Welcome! Here's little teaser of what's to come from Patrick - a podcast. We meet Patrick (our host) and Ben (our producer) as well as hear who else is BTS. Then we overview what the monthly rhythm of episodes will be: Interview, Quotes, Pop Culture Panel, Homilies, and an occasional Nashville bonus.