PBS Matters: Recent Episodes
Paddy Behan & Jo Coulson
Paddy Behan and Jo Coulson discuss all things related to PBS with the aim of taking conversation to a wider audience. This podcast will aim to cover both theory and practical applications in subjects such Organisational Behaviour Management, Practise Leadership and Family Perspectives. Paddy and Jo will be regularly joined by special guests who are leaders in their field of expertise.
Guest - Professor Richard Hastings:
Professor Richard Hastings Researcher from CEDAR, University of Warwick. He has been a researcher for over 30 years, and works primarily in the field of learning disability and autism. He works with practitioners and other services in many ways.
All of Richard's research is very applied and focused on trying to understand the challenged that face children with learning disabilities and their families, but also what they can help to do about that to change and improve people and their families.
In this episode, Paddy, Jo and Richard discuss The State of the Nation report from the International Journal of Positive Behaviour Support. They discuss the priority of co-production in the report, differences between the first and second report, and identify some broader themes in the report (for example, identifying who PBS is for, things to respond to based on change occurring in the 10 years since the first report, the drive behind this change, and more). Further, they discuss pushback received and how to combat unsuccessful attempts at implementing PBS. To conclude, Richard tells us about his hopes regarding what happens next and what this paper will do for the community.
This episode links to Episode 10 when Paddy and Jo spoke with Peter Baker about staff wellbeing. Nick discusses an initial pilot research project that trained staff from two community based adult services to provide post incident support. Nick shows that two stages are required, Diffusion and Critical Incident Stress Debrief.
Guest - Dr Ashok Roy:
Dr Ashok Roy is a consultant psychiatrist, who works in learning disability and autism services and is a clinical advisor for workforce related matters. He is also the chair of a local Autism Partnership board and a member of Autism West Midlands Charity, and a charity called Build.
In this episode, Ashok (alongside Paddy and Jo) answer's listeners question in relation to PBS. Some of the discussions include describing how to work in collaboration with 'STOMP', Ashok's initial thoughts on PBS and how it's changed / improved, and how to work together to ensure correct diagnoses and medication / solutions (including discussing coexisting conditions like ADHD alongside autism) - as well as many more questions.
Paddy and Jo announce the return of the PBS Matters Podcast, what they have been doing for the last two years and what the upcoming plans are for future episodes.
Guest - Doreen Kelly:
Doreen, the Founding Director of Beyond Limits; started her career as a nurse but soon moved to work in the voluntary and more recently the independent sector where she has worked to help people become full and active citizens since 1986. Doreen has been involved in setting up several small, person centred organisations in both England and Scotland to support people to get a life that makes sense for them and where they can be all they can be as opposed to institutional care and support which can often further damage vulnerable and disabled people.
Paddy, Jo and Doreen discuss what Individual service funds are and how they can be used to provide people with the support they want. Doreen shares her knowledge on how to access them and provides some examples of the differences good funding can make to people's lives.
Part three:
"How do you know someone is fluent?" When they demonstrate certain behaviours? Emit certain phrases and buss words? Complete their SAFMEDS in record time? What about the outcomes we're usually interested in: understanding what people are doing and why they are doing it, and describing it in such a way that ties it to behavioural principals. Meaning, breaking down the information we're given into relevant behaviour elements (Humility Note: don't break it down and feed it back to them. Please do it in your own head unless they ask you). Once you have your internal translation, use plain language to gauge your own and your listener's understanding, instead of relying on jargon.
Part two:
What do Atilla the Hun, Notorious B.I.G., and behaviour analysis have in common? Tune in to find out! We meet again with our across-the-pond pals to talk about interacting with humans on a less robotic level. For some of us, these skills don't come easily and we often fail to realise the power behind our interactions. Come with us on a reflective journey where we discuss the value of complex internal behaviours and how our intentions may not always hit their mark. We can't see the galaxy for the stars; we've become so focused on goals at hand that we've overlooked all the staff, caregivers, and clients behaviour that are standing in the way. So buckle in, adjust your ear buds, and prepare for you inflight discussion on the value of evaluating our own public and private behaviour and the impact on the work we set out to accomplish.
Part one:
What happens when behaviour analysts stateside meet with the behaviour analyst across the pond? You get Cross Pollination Podcast! Paddy and Jo are joined by the hosts of the Atypical Behaviour Analyst podcast. We discuss finding common ground not just with ourselves, but the other lifeforms we come across in our journey. Expanding and improving one's range of knowledge and skill should be actively sought after through experience, supervision, and collaboration.
Guest - Steve Wilson:
Hi ya, I'm Steve, 52 years young and my family (which includes my dog), road trips in our VW van, being outdoors, exercising to music and football make me happy. People with a learning disability have been in my life since 1992 when I started my Learning disability nursing course; all I have been striving to do since is support others to experience happiness and joy and to feel connected to others. I am a massive fan of David Pitonyak and Martin Seligman, with their work proving to be a source of inspiration and motivation for me. I strive to address Seligman's principle of 'it's not enough just to nullify disabling conditions,' by promoting PERMA within services so they can help those who they support to flourish. My long term ambition is that PERMA can become a way of life within all services who support people with learning disabilities.
Guest - Dr Joe Oliver:
Joe Oliver is a consultant clinical psychologist and founder of Contextual Consulting, one of the leading providers of ACT training in the United Kingdom.
He has been working for over 20 years as a practicing psychologist and is a program director at University College London. He also runs a busy London-based private practice, offering ACT therapy, coaching and consultations.
Joe is an active member of the Association for Contextual Behavioural Sciences and is a peer reviewed ACT trainer. He is co-editor of "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy & Mindfulness for Psychosis", and co-author of the self-help book, "ACTivate Your Life", and of the text books, "ACT for Psychosis Recovery", "Acceptance and Commitment Coaching" and "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy: 100 Key Points and Techniques".
He has also recently published a new self help book, The Mindfulness and Acceptance Workbook for Self Esteem.
Joe discusses with Jo and Paddy what Acceptance and Commitment Therapy is and how it can be used in our everyday lives as well as with people we support. We cove a range of applications including being aware of mindlessly scrolling on our phones to making a decision to act.
Guest - Andy McDonnell:
Andy is a Clinical Psychologist who has worked with people with intellectual disabilities, autism and their supporters for over 30 years. He has published over 50 articles in the area of challenging behaviour and restraint reduction. He is the CEO of Studio3 Training Systems and Studio3 Clinical Services, Andy is the originator of the low arousal approach to managing behaviours, his most recent book The Reflective Journey: A Practitioners Guide to the Low Arousal Approach. He also has an interest in applying models of stress and trauma to person centred supports. He routinely consults about behaviours of concern in the UK, Republic of Ireland, Canada and Scandinavia.
Guest - Leah Fennema Hall:
Leah is a Board Certifies Behaviour Analyst (BCBA) with 10 years experience of motivating people to engage in behaviours needed to meet their personal goals as well as those of their organisation. She has applied behaviour analysis (ABA) in multiple capacities including 1:1 coaching, training, mentoring and, organisational management consultancy. Leah is a Director of UK-based Lux Consulting, specializing in behaviour and culture change. She is also the owner of US-based Collaborative Behavioral Services where she has served as Executive Director since 2012. Collaborative provides 1:1 behaviour analytic therapy, coaching, training, and organizational behaviour management consulting services.
Guest - Dr Dave Roberts:
A qualified Social Worker, Dave has worked in residential child care since the early 1990s. He became the head of the training department in 2006 and has led The Mulberry Bush to two National Training Awards, in 2007 and 2012. In 2020, he completed his doctorate from University College London.
He was integral in developing the 'Foundation Degree in Therapeutic Work with Children and Young People', with the University of the West of England, for which he is programme leader. He is also a Specialist Leader in Education (SLE).
He has developed a range of training programmes that he has delivered across the UK and Europe and facilities reflective practice sessions for professionals from across Oxfordshire.
In part two, Dave introduces a story of one young gentleman and the difference attending Mulberry school made. Dave also discusses the connections the school has maintained with old pupils and some of the feedback they give to the school.
The typical length of the placement is two to three years and Dave explains that this time is used to understand the trauma the child has experiences. The pupil then moves on when they are ready to progress.
Guest - Deanne Weller:
Deanne is a qualified vision rehabilitation worker and has specialised for the last 17 years working with sight impairment and additional disabilities. After starting her career in social care straight after completing her A-levels, Deanne attended all on the job training possible until she completed her degree. She has worked for SeeAbility since, took on the post of the interim head of the specialist services team and is now the senior vision rehabilitation worker for the South East.
Part one: What is vision rehabilitation?
Deanne introduces the role of a vision rehabilitation worker and what different types of visual impairments she has supported. She shares with Paddy and Jo how she asses people with visual impairments, including cerebral visual impairments. Deanne shares some general strategies that can be used to take account of people's visual needs including teaching people to use their functional vision more effectively.
Guest - Deanne Weller:
Deanne is a qualified vision rehabilitation worker and has specialised for the last 17 years working with sight impairment and additional disabilities. After starting her career in social care straight after completing her A-levels, Deanne attended all on the job training possible until she completed her degree. She has worked for SeeAbility since, took on the post of the interim head of the specialist services team and is now the senior vision rehabilitation worker for the South East.
Part two: Applications of Visual rehabilitation
Deanne shares the story of a lady she has worked with for a number of years and how understanding her visual needs and working collaboratively with other professionals enabled the woman to walk as opposed to using a wheelchair.
Guest - Luke Watts:
Luke is an adult social care worker and free thinker. He has a long history in social care and has extended his skills in supporting people who have needs that are classes as complex. He is passionate, outspoken, driven, idealistic keen to see the best support and is a sector leader. Luke is a fellow of the School of Social Entrepreneurs and feels social care should be led by the values of not-for-profit processes towards the best outcomes for the people supported and their families. Luke specialises in PBS and leads a Social Enterprise - My PESP CIC in East Sussex.
Paddy and Jo invited Luke to the podcast to discuss PBS and how it works as a manager within and organisation. However the conversation takes some interesting turns including the concerns Luke has with PBS ethical concerns and what the next steps should be. This episode led to the development of Episode 15 and the conversation between Luke, Paddy and Jo provides the context for "The Common Ground."
Guests - Hamish, Georgia and Carole:
Hamish and Georgia work for Beyond Limits which supports Ricky and Carole is Ricky's nan.
The team share Ricky's story of multiple service breakdowns due to Ricky expressing his dissatisfaction through presenting behaviours. Since moving to Beyond Limits late 2015, Ricky has been to music festivals, on numerous holidays and completed a 50km trek in Sweden, demonstrating that the right support has a life changing result.
Guest - Dr Dave Roberts:
A qualified Social Worker, Dave has worked in residential child care since the early 1990s. He became the head of the training department in 2006 and has led The Mulberry Bush to two National Training Awards, in 2007 and 2012. In 2020, he completed his doctorate from University College London.
He was integral in developing the 'Foundation Degree in Therapeutic Work with Children and Young People', with the University of the West of England, for which he is programme leader. He is also a Specialist Leader in Education (SLE).
He has developed a range of training programmes that he has delivered across the UK and Europe and facilities reflective practice sessions for professionals from across Oxfordshire.
In part one, Dave presents the history and ethos behind the Mulberry Bush school and how it aims to support children who have experienced trauma.
Dave introduces what we mean by trauma informed support and how effective PBS should consider the trauma someone may have experienced.
Paddy, Jo and Dave discuss reflective practice, dynamic thinking and how bringing people together is crucial for effective support.
Guest - Dr Peter Baker:
Peter is a part-time Senior Lecturer and Chartered Clinical Psychologist. He has many years experience as a clinician working for the NHS, leading to specialist support and intervention services for people with intellectual disabilities who present challenging behaviour. Peter has recently been part of a working group for "Meeting Needs and Reducing Distress."
Peter explains why he became interested in studying wellbeing and that we need to create supportive environments for staff as well as the people we support. It is all discussed that staff wellbeing is not linked to how challenging the person they work with is but the support the organisation give them. Peter discusses how to proactively support wellbeing including:
1. Providing clear expectations of staff
2. Training and supervising staff
3. Using a PBS framework
4. Talking to staff
5. End of shift reviews
6. Informal peer support
Guest - Tom Bassett:
Tom works as a Learning Disability and Autism Consultant for Norfolk County Council. He has worked in a variety of settings and is currently aiming to roll out Positive Behaviour Support across Norfolk.
Tom, Paddy and Jo discuss rolling out Positive Behaviour Support across a variety of providers and populations within Norfolk, including the barriers and successes Tom has faced. Tom discusses getting engagement and how to get buy in to ensure co-production that takes into account the varying needs across the area.
Mags introduces a 10 year old boy who was referred for support to develop his vocal skills. Mags used TalkTools, task analysis, errorless learning and intensive interaction to develop his oral motor skills. This improved his eating and speech. Mags highlights the importance of considering physical issues anytime a person is referred for services.
Paddy and Jo are joined my Mags Kirk to discuss the role of Speech Therapists and the importance of oral motor skills. Mags outlines the different terminology used by different professions and how they link. The episode includes the importance of SALT and PBS practitioners working collaboratively and how this can improve the outcomes for people.
Roy Deveau joins Paddy and Jo to share where practice leadership comes from and the research linked to it.
Paddy and Jo re joined by Roy Deveau and discuss what practice leadership is. They cover the difference between practice leadership and management, the importance of having practice leaders and how context impacts on the effectiveness of practice leadership.
Part three is all about the practical application of practice leadership within services. Roy Deveau shares how best to introduce practice leadership, training for practice leaders and the benefits it can bring. Roy goes through the EDDY model as a useful method to ensure training is embedded into practice.
Paddy and Jo consider the important elements of PBS; including contextual fit, stakeholder involvement and function based strategies. They discuss what PBS is and is not and why organisational culture is crucial for translating the theory and training into practice.
This episode discusses two case studies to demonstrate PBS in practice. Jo introduces a gentleman where his fear of dogs was preventing him for going out and Paddy discusses implementing PBS across an organisation.
Tony talks through applications of person centred planning with example of how to build good rapport so people are comfortable and happy to share their stories.
Paddy and Jo meet with Leah Fennema to discuss how organisational behaviour management can be used to support systems and change employee behaviour. They cover leadership, the importance of pinpointing behaviours, feeback and data collection.
Leah Fennema shares two case studies with Paddy and Jo from her work. Thye discuss how these case studies could be used to enhance implementation of PBS within services.
Adele Grandon joins Paddy and Jo to discuss PBS and the support for her 23 year old son.
Tony Osgood joins Paddy and Jo to discuss person centred planning and why this is a good first step to understanding a person prior to completing in depth behaviour work.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In this episode, Paddy and Jo are joined by Michael West CBE to discuss compassionate leadership and psychological safety in teams. Michael shares the four underpinning components of compassionate leadership; attending, understanding, empathising and helping.
Welcome to PBS Matters - and our first podcast since last summer. In this episode, Paddy and Jo are joined by Professor Ashok Roy who answers questions from the PBS Matters listeners. Questions range from "what does Professor Roy find the most valuable when working alongside PBS practitioners" and "why can it take so long to get support?' to "how do you get a second opinion" and more.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In this episode,Paddy and Jo are joined by Doreen Kelly (Founding Director of Beyond Limits) to discuss individual services funds. Doreen discusses what they are and how they can be accessed to support people more effectively. Doreen also shares some examples to demonstrate the difference ISFs can make.
In the final part of this episode we join the crew at The Atypical Behavior Analyst Podcast for one last time and ask...
“How do you know someone is fluent?”
When they demonstrate certain behaviors? Emit certain phrases and buzz words? Complete their SAFMEDS in record time? What about the outcomes we’re usually interested in: understanding what other people are doing and why they are doing it, and describing it in such that a way that ties it to behavioral principles. Meaning, breaking down the information we’re given into relevant behavior elements. Once you have your internal translation, use plain language to gauge your own and your listener’s understanding, instead of relying on jargon.
What do Atilla the Hun, Notorious B.I.G., and behavior analysis have in common? Tune in to find out as we meet again with the hosts of The Atypical Behavior Analyst Podcast to talk about interacting with humans on a less robotic level. For some of us, these skills don’t come easily, and we often fail to realize the power behind our interactions.
Throughout this episode we embark on a reflective journey where we discuss the value of complex internal behaviours and how our intentions may not always hit their mark. We can’t see the galaxy for the stars; we’ve become so focused on goals at hand that we’ve overlooked all the staff, caregivers, and clients behaviour that are standing in the way.
So buckle in, adjust your ear buds, and prepare for your inflight discussion on the value of evaluating our own public and private behavior and the impact on the work we set out to accomplish.
What happens when behaviour analysts from the UK meet with behaviour analysts from across the pond? You get the Cross PolliNation podcast. Meet Kelly, Shana and Leah, the hosts of The Atypical Behavior Analyst Podcast in the USA. In this episode, we discuss finding common ground not just with ourselves, but the other lifeforms we come across in our journey. Expanding and improving one’s range of knowledge and skill should be actively sought after through experience, supervision, and collaboration.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In this episode, Paddy and Jo are joined by Dr Joe Oliver to discuss Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) and explore what this is. The discussion also covers the application of ACT to real life situations, both within our own lives and when we are supporting others.
Welcome to PBS Matters. This month Steve Wilson joins Paddy and Jo to discuss the PERMA model and how it can be used to improve someone’s happiness to enable them to flourish. They discuss the five aspects of positive emotion, engagement, relationships, meaning and accomplishment and why these are all important for everyone.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In the final episode of 2020, Andy McDonell and Leah Fennema-Hall join Paddy and Jo to discuss some of the current issues surrounding PBS within the UK and what they believe is important for clinicians to consider. This episode was recorded as two seperate interviews and pulled together to demonstrate the commonalities between the two perspectives. The outcome shows there is a lot of overlap with what the two perspective consider to be important.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In this episode, Paddy and Jo are joined by Luke Watts to discuss PBS implementation from a manager’s point of view. The conversation covers ethical considerations and some of the concerns Luke has about PBS.
In the second part of this episode, Deanne shares the story of a lady she has worked with for a number of years and explains how understanding her visual needs and working collaboratively with other professionals enabled the woman to walk as opposed to using a wheelchair.
Welcomes to PBS Matters. This month Paddy and Jo are joined by Deanne Weller, a vision rehab worker for Seeability. Deanne introduces the role of a vision rehabilitation worker and what different types of visual impairments she has supported. She talks with Paddy and Jo on how she assesses people with visual impairments, including cerebral visual impairments. Deanne also shares some general strategies that can be used to take account of people's visual needs including teaching people to use their functional vision more effectively.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In the second part of this episode, Dr. Dave Robers introduces a story of one young gentleman and the difference attending Mulberry Bush school made. Dave also discuss the connections the school has maintained with old pupils and some of the feedback they give to the school. The typical length of the placement is two to three years and Dave explains that this time is used to understand the trauma the child has experienced. The pupil then moves on when they are ready to progress.
Welcome to the PBS Matters podcast. This month Paddy and Jo are joined by Dr. Dave Roberts who presents the history and ethos behind the Mulberry Bush school and how it aims to support children who have experienced trauma. Dave introduces what we mean by trauma informed support and how effective PBS should consider the trauma someone may have experienced. Paddy, Jo and Dave discuss reflective practice, dynamic thinking and how bringing people together is crucial for effective support.
Welcome to the eleventh episode of PBS Matters. This month Paddy and Jo are joined by Hamish and Georgia from Beyond Limits and Carole (Ricky’s nan). The team share Ricky's story of multiple service breakdowns due to Ricky expressing his dissatisfaction through presenting behaviours. Since moving to Beyond Limits in 2015 Ricky has been to music festivals, on numerous holidays and completed a 50km trek in Sweden demonstrating that the right support has life changing results.
Welcome to the tenth episode of PBS Matters. Dr Peter Baker joins Paddy and Jo this time to discuss the importance of staff wellbeing. Peter highlights that staff wellbeing does not correlate with the level of behaviours that challenge but the support that is given to staff. Strategies to improve staff wellbeing are introduced covering proactive supports such as regular team meetings. The conversation also includes the topic of debriefs and the lack of evidence on their effectiveness.
Welcome to the episode nine of PBS Matters. Paddy and Jo are joined this month by Tom Bassett to discuss rolling out positive behaviour support across a variety of providers and populations within Norfolk. Tom considers the barriers he has faced and as well as the and successes he has achieved. Tom also discusses getting engagement and buy in to achieve true co-production that takes into account the varying needs across the area.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In the second part of our eighth episode, Mags Kirk introduces a 10 year old boy who was referred for support to develop his vocal skill. Mags used TalkTools, task analysis, errorless learning and intensive interaction (paring to build rapport) to develop his oral motor skills. This improved his eating and speech. Mags goes onto to highlights the importance of considering physical issues whenever a person is referred for feeding or verbal skills.
Welcome to the eighth episode of PBS Matters. Paddy and Jo are joined by Mags Kirk to discuss the role of speech therapists and the importance of oral motor skills. Mags goes on to talk about the difference in jargon and how different words mean the same things for the different professions. This episode also includes a discussion on how speech therapists can help PBS practitioners to understand how speech sounds develop based on chronological age.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In the second part of our seventh episode, Brian introduces a case study to demonstrate the effectiveness of the Intervention Sequence outline and how it was introduced into the support for the person.
Welcome to the seventh episode of PBS Matters. Paddy and Jo are joined by Brian McClean to discuss the Intervention Sequence Outline which Brian presented in McClean and Grey (2012). Brian outlines the model and the theory behind it to demonstrate that
getting support right is the first step in implementing positive behaviour support. Paddy, Jo and Brian then move on to discuss the implications of the model and how this should impact practice.
Welcome to the sixth episode of PBS Matters. This month Marie Lovell joins Paddy and Jo to discuss the Skills for Care PBS pilot which aims to assess if a self sustaining model for peer review of PBS training is possible. They discuss the important fact that there is currently no such thing as PBS accredited training and that PBS training alone is not enough to effect meaningful change. Topics covered in this episode also include the different levels of PBS training and the topics PBS training should include.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In the second part of our fifth episode, Tony Osgood explains what a good person-centred facilitator does. He then talks about the importance of developing good rapport in order for individuals to be able to share their dreams and aspirations. Tony provides an example of a gentleman he worked with and how rapport was built with both the person and his family. Tony, Paddy and Jo then discuss how using person-centred approaches with staff teams can ensure they feel properly supported.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In our fifth episode, Tony Osgood introduces what person-centred planning is and why it is crucial when delivering Positive Behaviour Support. Tony, Paddy and Jo then move on to discuss how "listening to behaviour" can be used as a method for people to express what is and is not working in their life.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In our fourth episode, Jo and Paddy are joined by Adele Grandon to discuss the application of ABA from a family point of view. Connor, Adele’s son has benefited from the use of ABA to develop skills since he was three years old. Now at the age of 23, Adele is aiming to ensure that Connor continues to have ABA and PBS input as he moves from the family home.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In the concluding part of our third episode, Leah Fennama shares two cases from her work while Jo and Paddy consider how these could inform practice within PBS settings. The first case is based in an airport with the aim to maintain safe working practices. Interventions included training to define what observable safety behaviour is and providing scripts for how to specifically respond to seeing safe and unsafe behaviour. The second case refers to a manufacturer where Leah worked with the leadership team to consider what data was collected, what data was needed and which data was no longer relevant.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In our third episode podcast we welcome Leah Fennama to discuss how Organisational Behaviour Management can be used to support systems and change employee behaviour. We cover leadership, the importance of pinpointing behaviours, feedback and data collection. Leah also explains how taking data and providing effective feedback can be enough to influence change.
Welcome to PBS Matters. To conclude our second episode, Roy, Paddy and Jo discuss how to introduce and train practice leaders into a service as well as considering the benefits that effective practice leadership can bring. Roy outlines the EDDY model and how this can embed practice leadership.
Welcome to PBS Matters. Continuing our second episode, Roy, Paddy and Jo discuss what the differences between management and practice leadership are and why it is important to have practice leaders. They also explore how the context informs the development on practice leaders and the importance of effective feedback.
Welcome to PBS Matters. To introduce our second episode, Roy and Paddy discuss the definition of practice leadership, provide the historical context and discuss a range of important researchers and evidence for practice leadership.
Welcome to PBS Matters. In this episode Jo introduces a case study on using PBS to support a gentleman to tolerate being around dogs, enabling him to go without fear. Paddy discusses implementing PBS at an organisational level and why training alone is not the answer to embedding PBS successfully.
Welcome to PBS Matters. Our first episode introduces the reasons why we have decided to start this podcast and moves on to discuss exactly what PBS is. We consider some important elements of PBS including contextual fit, stakeholder involvement and function-based strategies. We also talk about the journey of implementing PBS into an organisational culture and the importance of moving PBS from the training room into practice