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Do you know what to do when you find a native animal in need of help?  It's something that we face often in our Adelaide Hills lifestyle, and many people don't know what to do or who to turn to for help.

Save Our Wildlife Foundation Inc, known as SOWFI, is here to help, anywhere in South Australia.  They will rescue an animal in need, and provide the care that will give that animal the best outcome possible.  But they can also train you as a wildlife carer, so that you can join the team and nurse animals back to health.

Join me as I chat with Marian MacLucas about SOWFI and their work with wildlife.

If you find an animal in need of assistance, call SOWFI at any time on 7120 6610

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Voiceover: Welcome to What the Hills. With a lifetime of living, here we are, Adelaide Hills locals just like you. That's why What The Hills is your program for the Adelaide Hills. We focus on the stories from the place where you live. And now here's your host, Kimberly Franklin.

Kimberley: Ginger Rogers did it backwards and in high heels. And the Woodchester Community Dance Club is now giving locals an opportunity to learn to dance in a friendly, comfortable club. Some listeners will remember the days of the regular community dance or when dancing in the arms of your partner was a weekly occurrence. The club wants to bring back those days without the stress and expense of formal classes. Daryl Owen joined me this week to talk about the benefits of dance and how you can get involved.

Kimberley: On What The Hills today I'm talking to Daryl Owen from the Woodchester Community Dance Club and he's going to tell us all about what they do on Tuesday nights.

Kimberley: Hi, Daryl.

Daryl: Hi, how are you doing?

Kimberley: I'm great, thanks. And I'm excited to learn about the dance club and what you do. It seems like something that is a little bit out of the past, so I'd love to know how the club got started and how long it's been going.

Daryl: this style of dancing is a bit from the past but it's also very much of the future. It's now referred to as being new vogue dancing, but it has many different names. and your question was how do we get started and how long we've been going? So we've had about three starts due to covert and starting and stopping. We started during the day as part of the University of the Third Age at Strathalbyn. And we're going during the day. Attracted a few people, but we found the Woodchester Hall. It has a very happy, friendly management team and, they weren't using the hall very much and it's very good for the type of dancing we want to do. And it has a beautiful sprung floor. So we decided we would move our dancing to Woodchester. It's actually called the Richardson Hall at Woodchester. It's the only hall, so if you come, you can't miss it.

Kimberley: Okay, so it's the new vogue or modern ballroom dancing that you do. How long has the club been going?

Daryl: The club's now probably been going for close, to two years, on and off. But we reformed again in, about eight weeks ago and all the people came back and we've renamed ourselves. We were offering ballroom dancing, but that sounds a bit scary to some people and we're also not restricting ourselves. So we're happy to explore dancing in general in the future, especially if some members come along. So we have aspirations to move off in all sorts of directions. But primarily we're starting in what's called the new vogue or ballroom. Also in some circles it's called old style dancing. so it involves sequence dancing in that you are doing things in repeated sequences. So an example of a sequence, if we go to a very long sequence, would be people on Dancing with the Stars where they know what they're going to do at the beginning and they've gone through a very long sequence where they're doing these various dance figures. Now, in our case, we're doing much simpler routines. We're shortening them down into eight bars or 16 bars. So in a typical song, we repeat the sequence five or six times and as you go, you're getting better at it. Yeah. so that's primarily the gist of the dancing.

Kimberley: So this came from the University of the Third Age activity.

Daryl: Through the University of the Third Age, we, had somewhere to promote it in Strathalbyn and we had support in organizing a hall and we had support with financing it in the initial stages. But we then decided in the long term we're better off just to move off by ourselves. And as I said before, we had the support from the Woodchester Hall committee to use their home and they've been very cooperative and friendly. So hence we chose, to do it, at the Woodchester Hall in Callington. The time we're doing it at 07:00 p.m. On a Tuesday. Because there are also other places that you can dance. So if you find that you're enjoying it, as some people do, you can move off to other venues, you can move off to professional, teachers, you can move off to other clubs that are offering the same style of dancing.

Kimberley: Now, I think it's really easy for us all to imagine that ballroom dancing would give you a little bit of a workout and be great for people who want a fun way to get fit and maybe practice coordination, that sort of thing. But I've heard that doing this sort of dancing can help you to learn to use your brain in a totally different way that you might not have been used to before.

Daryl: That's the empirical evidence shows that you're using primarily obviously, our legs are the main thing we're using and for most of our life, apart from when we learn to drive a car and we learn to use a clutch and so forth, for most of our lives, all we do is use our legs walking or running. So we're suddenly using them in a variety of ways. you are exercising, your mind to remember the sequence. You're exercising your mind to remember the dance steps. You're exercising your body in a fairly gentle way. It's not very physically demanding, but it is gentle exercise. And of course, the other important part of it is the socialization and the actual physical contact. So we've now converted our dance class to have leaders and followers, whereas we once had men and ladies, but we're finding the ladies more keen. So we get ladies who come along and they end up being the lead and then they swap backwards and forwards. So they get also, apart from, learning to use, their body and their minds are also getting social contact, with other people on a regular basis, which is also an important part of the whole process. Now, as I say, we do these small sequences. So many people are familiar, for example, with the military two step, which they probably learned at school maybe once upon a time. So that's something we will demonstrate. I say demonstrate because my partner and I are not qualified teachers as such. So we are demonstrators, the same as Barry at the Murray Bridge Dance Club who meet at Monarto. He is also a demonstrator. Or if you want to go off to Victor Harbor at Middleton, they also have demonstrators. If you do want to learn higher level, there are professional people, so you can move along to someone like that. As an example, at the, Littlehampton Institute, I believe there's a dance teacher by the name of Donna, and she'd be happy to have you there and make sure you learn every intricacy, if you're interested in that. In, the scope of this dancing. Some people choose to go on to competition dancing, which is primarily based in Adelaide. So they get very excited about how they're doing things, whereas we're completely unexcited about how you're doing things. We're just interested in participating. We're quite happy for people to modify sequences as it suits them. For example, there's a few dances where there's a bit of spinning involved and for, some of the people are having trouble keeping their balance with the spinning. So they're just doing a few moves on the spot instead of doing a spin and then picking up the dance after that. That's the sort of thing that we're interested in is promoting that brain activity, your body activity and your social activity and all for quite a reasonable price.

Kimberley: It all sounds really good. And I think that the really telling thing of all of this is that it's a dance club. It's not dancing lessons, it's not a dance school. It's a club where people come together to share the skills that they have and to have a good time doing something that they're all interested in. Is that how it works?

Daryl: Yeah, absolutely. That's how it works. So at the moment, my partner and I are doing most of the demonstrating, but as I said, we have the scope and the flexibility to introduce other forms of dancing. For example, in the past we've attended a lot of bush dancers and we found them quite good. That's probably something more so as we're coming further and further away from Covid because bush dancing often involves one line facing another line and you're coming in and you're swapping partners and you're whirling around and all the rest of it. So it's probably not ready for that in terms of Covid exposure but in the long term we'd be happy to play with that sort of concept. One of the ladies want to learn a line dance so we've chosen one line dance so we'll probably introduce that soon. As soon as I have to learn it first I'm watching the YouTubes, I'm slowly soaking it up. So yes again it's a fairly simple dance and it's something that also ironically can be done in couples as well. I think for that one when we come to it we'll probably do that just as individuals so that everyone can be included.

Kimberley: You're still learning dances yourself. You mentioned getting onto YouTube and learning this line dance. What's your personal journey with dance been like? Is it something that's been in your life for many years or have you just got into it recently?

Daryl: Yes, I've been dancing now for about twelve years. I came to dancing after a partnership separation saw a little advert in Adelaide so I started dancing at a commercial dance, studio which was really I say commercial, it's really a part time business so he has various ways of making money and in the evenings he runs a dance, a couple of dances a couple of nights a week. So they were also qualified teachers. So I came to dancing then. Yeah. I explored several forms of dancing. I went to the square dancing. I found that to be good, I went to the line dancing. I found that to be a bit too individual and I enjoyed this which was very much called New Vogue dancing at the time. I really enjoyed that because the scope to take it to where you want to take it, there's simple dances, there's complex dances, there's the ability to do that if you want to in a very controlled artistic manner, if that's what you're into. I was offered that but I chose not to do that. It's offered all over the place. So for example later in this year we're going to go to Wallaroo and they have a Friday night dance, a Saturday night dance and the Sunday dance. So we don't do a lot of that. We normally only dance once or twice per week but there are certainly people that dance three or four times a week because they find it so enjoyable and it covers a lot of their needs. so yeah so my journey was really that I've just enjoyed dancing and gone to various venues. There was a lady running a dance in Hahndorf. Unfortunately she's retired for now. She got closed down by Covid and at this point she's not quite ready to start again. There's a lot of commitment to run a dance at that level whereas the commitment we have is fairly minimal. We're just coming on a Tuesday we're showing different dances and we're repeating things and yeah, it's fairly, relaxed at the moment.

Kimberley: So on a Tuesday night, what sort of dances can we see people doing? There's a few that I know the names of, if not quite the moves, but tell us the range of different dances people could be taking part in.

Daryl: Okay, so at the moment we're teaching a cha cha, which is in this case it's called the Jacqueline cha cha, which you could find on a YouTube. we've already taught the, SallyAnne cha cha. And in Adelaide there's about 90 dances that do the circuits and we're up to about twelve so far that people have learnt in terms of, worldwide there's probably 800 dancers, but we're just focusing on the ones that get done in this district. Primarily. There's a chapter we do rumbas, we do what's called, a swing. But it's not like swing dancing, it's a bit different. Again, there's these terms that go around that get applied very loosely. I have trouble understanding the differences in them, really. They have different basic moves and they have different styles, of music that go with it. So if people are familiar with something like Tom Jones's Sex Bomb, we're doing the SallyAnn cha cha, or the Jacqueline cha cha, to that Tom Jones track. So as I said, there's Rumbas, cha chas and we also are doing a few waltzes. So there's a very common waltz which we're tackling at the moment, which is fairly complicated. So we'll probably end up doing that for about six weeks, being the Alpha waltz. So almost anywhere you go dancing in South Australia during the evening an alpha waltz will come up. So that's why we've decided that we would tackle the alpha waltz. We've already learned the new vogue modern waltz, which is a simpler waltz. But again, it's quite a different style of music. So if people are familiar with something like Sandy's Song, which we normally have, vocal tracks, so people can sing along if they want to, or just dance. Some of the other dance venues, such as the Murray Bridge Dance Group, who are based at Monarto, they tend to use mostly music tracks, only without vocals. But they also have on their regular monthly dance, which I do on a Saturday night, the second Saturday in each month, they use a guy who bangs, away on his organ. He's very good. He has all sorts of instruments hiding in his organ, like guitars and pan pipes and all sorts of things. And he sings. Yeah, but they probably have slightly more mellow music than what we are choosing. But again, we're pretty flexible. If people want to come along and join in and introduce our own music again, that would be fine. So, yeah, I think we've covered most of the dances. Rumbas, Chachas, two steps, waltzes and two tangoes. A few, basic tangos and again, you might enjoy, finding you enjoy the tango. So if you, felt so motivated, you get in your car and go to Adelaide one night a week and just do tango, something like Argentine tango, which is obviously they do it to a much higher, level than the little tangos we're doing out there in our dance club.

Kimberley: It all really sounds like a lot of fun and a lot of scope for learning. You said up to 800 dances, although not quite so many, perhaps in the local area. But you've also mentioned some other dance clubs that would be around the area, probably accessible to most people who would go out to Woodchester. Is there an association of these dance clubs? How do you make friends with them and know when they're happening?

Daryl: There is no formal association of dance clubs. We live out at Hartley, which, is halfway between Strathalbyn and Murray Bridge, roughly, if you drew a straight line. So we dance at the Monarto group, which is the Murray Bridge, dance group. And they have what they call their circuit. So we don't go to many of their other circuits, but we are going this Saturday to Burdett because we're friendly with a lady that runs with a couple that runs Burdett. So Burdett is on the other side of the Murray between Mannum and Murray Bridge. So the Murray Bridge Dance Group promotes what they call their circuit. So we go to some of them there's. Also on the Second Saturday there's still a dance at Echunga. So that's the same night as the Monarto, one. So we've only been to Echunga once, just to have a look. And we also regularly go down to Victor Harbor. The Victor Harbor Dance Club is now based permanently at Middleton. They got offered a hall by the Alexandrina Council at Middleton. So they accepted that. And they are every Wednesday. So they do the same things as we do, but they're a much bigger club and they run three Saturday dances a month as well. So they have different members who run the evenings for them. So at this point, we're not running any Saturday dances. We're just focusing on our Tuesday night. And we're focusing on really on trying to introduce people to the joys of dancing, introduce them to the basics of the whole thing. And we're quite looking forward in the future to where our members get more involved. So we might agree, for example, that we might run a bigger dance at somewhere like Wistow, for example, where the hall is a little bit bigger and where it's a little bit more central. So we might, end up running a Saturday night dance there in the future or something like that. We are interested in using some of these fairly poorly used, country halls which are dotted around the place. And they mostly have, nice floors for dancing with sprung, well, we call it a sprung floor. So it's wood that gives away it gives away slightly under your feet as opposed to dancing on concrete. That's what we're looking at. The long term of moving in towards slowly letting the club grow.

Kimberley: If I decide to go along to Woodchester on a Tuesday, night, what am I likely to see? Will I see people in ball gowns? Will I see lots and lots of people there? Will it be very strict? What's my experience going to be like?

Daryl: Okay, so your experience on a Tuesday night will, basically be fairly casual. So we dress casually. People just come along and hopefully not the clothes they've been working in that day if they're out on the farm. But yeah, just casual, clothes. We have trouble getting going on time because people like to chat when they arrive and we stop for a cup of tea at some point, which is optional. Some people don't stop for a cup of tea and that tends to go on for longer than it probably should or could, but that's really not important. spend about half an hour learning a new dance, just repeating the sequence. So we're not using music, we're just talking through it. People are watching and people are copying and people are learning what they call dance figures. So, as an example, we have a lockstep, which is really just left right, left right, but you're doing your left right, left right in a different way. So it takes a little bit of figuring out how to do it. Once you figure out that lock step, you've then got that in your repertoire of dance figures and it will repeat itself in other, dances. So you don't have to learn that again. So when a new figure comes up, we will spend, time repeating that. Yeah, you can repeat it to the point where you can do your lockstep and have a conversation with the person who you're dancing with because it becomes as the same as if we still drive a manual car or we still put, our foot down on the clutch or the brake. We don't think about it. We, just do it. So we're looking to learn dance figures and to slowly incorporate them into our mind so that when they come up again, things happen much quicker. So hence, as I say, at the moment, we're teaching the Jacqueline Chacha. We'll probably do that for one more week, and that will only be the third week we've taught that. because there's a lot of repeating going on. So primarily, as I say, we have a casual environment. some people decide to go and sit down and watch for a while, have a drink of water or whatever. Some people are deciding, some dance moves aren't suiting their body, so they're modifying them and that's all right. So really, our focus is on participation and enjoyment, and not so much on how well you're actually doing the dance. because we don't think that's that important. Yeah. And then we normally finish at 09:00, but then often there's a few requests, so we push on a bit after that. And we've got the hall for as long as we want anyway. No close neighbors, so we're pretty well right there. So, yeah, it's good.

Kimberley: I have to ask because you used a little bit of dancing jargon there. What's a figure?

Daryl: Okay, so the figure is a specific dance move. Now, simple example, of a figure would be a box where you're going forward. Well, the lead goes forward on their left foot. They take their right foot across on an angle and spread it out. And then they bring their left foot over to join it. And they move back on their right foot, put their left foot back to where the original starting position was, and then they close their right foot into their left foot. So they're going forward and across, back and across, ending up at the same place. And that's called a box. Now, obviously, we can do a forward box or, a back box. So there are some dancers with backboxes. So at that point, the lead goes in, a back box. The lead goes back with their left foot instead of going forward with their left foot. And they repeat and they end up, as explained, they end up doing a box. A box is a dance figure. And once you've learned the box, the same thing as the lockstep has a chance that comes up in other dances. And we also do half boxes. in the walls, you're often going forward on your left. You go across with your right foot, so it's level with your, left foot. And then you close your left foot to it. You're doing like, a little L shape half box. So, again, that's a dance figure. And again, as you're going more, progressing more, you can do your little half box. You could do it forwards, and backwards. You can change directions, so you're moving into a different space. one of the interesting things about this dancing is if you have a free mind and you end up at your niece's wedding somewhere and there's dancing, you can introduce your dance figures onto the dance floor where you are. So you can do a box, you can do lock steps, you can do various other dance figures you've learnt, as long as your mind is free enough. I, tend to fall back into a sequence. So once I do a lock step, I know this comes next, I do this next. That's primarily what a dance figure is. It's a little self contained move, which, as I say, we then put into sequence. so you might do a forward box and a back box, and then a side step and things like this. So it ends up forming a sequence. And the advantage, as I say, we try to, focus on teaching the figures so that when it comes up in another dance, we don't have to labor over that. Again, we just say, okay, we're doing a forward box, we're doing a back box. So, yeah, that's how it's going so far. And since, we're still promoting to people, we're also going to put in some what we are considering doing is having an early start, for the new people. And primarily, we would be looking at dance figures rather than whole dances, so that they can get figures into their repertoire and then they can convert those figures into dances. And while we're on the topic, I think a lot of people are familiar with the Military Two. It starts you're holding your partner in an open hold and you're virtually mirroring each other. So you both step on your outside foot, you step out, you step in. So that's a very simple dance figure. So again, that gets repeated. And one of the things we learn when we start going dancing is that we got more legs than we thought we had because we've got our left feet and our right feet. We've got our inside feet or outside feet. We've got the feet that are closer to the partner. So we've got all sorts of ways of talking about which foot, we're starting on and what we're going to do with that leg. at that time,

Kimberley: I have a horrible feeling that at least two of my feet are going to be left ones.

Daryl: Yeah, well, that's good.

Kimberley: I really like the idea of learning the figures individually and using them as building blocks to learn the dance or the sequence later on. I did do, for a little while, ballroom dancing lessons when I was a kid. I would have been about nine. So it was just a couple of years ago, and they never taught us that there was such a thing as just learning a particular step and then putting that together. We are now going to learn the cha cha and you learn the cha cha from beginning to end. And that was the cha cha. And so I like this idea of learning building blocks and then later on they can say, well, you know those four building blocks that you learned a couple of months ago? We're going to put those together and suddenly you're going to know a new kind of waltz or something like that. Is that how it tends to work for people?

Daryl: Yeah, that is how well, I think that's a good way to do it, because I've learned this from Karen Russell, who did have a dance business based in Hahndorf, and also she did stuff and she ran dances in the city. And, that was her very firm belief that if we learn the figures properly, we can then incorporate those figures into dances as they come along. And then regularly we'll choose a dance and we'll discover a figure we haven't learned. So then we can sit and we can stop and we can focus on that figure until people have got a good concept of that figure. And again, you're slowly building up your repertoire of dance figures, which, as I say, if you're a free thinking person, which a lot of people are, you can then convert those dancing figures into freestyle dancing.

Kimberley: So you've been going a little while now but really just getting off the ground after all sorts of Covid interruptions and getting established at Woodchester. Where do people come from and what sorts of people go to your dance club on a Tuesday night?

Daryl: Several of the people that come from Strathalbyn, that was where we did start. We have a couple that come from Manham because there's not much on offer at Madam. They're quite excited because on this Saturday, the first Saturday of the month, they're going to join us at Burdett because that's not too far from Manhunt. We got a few people that come from Hartley. They're excited that they could do something close to home. Couple that come from just a nearby area of Woodchester. So, yeah, people are coming from far and wide, but mostly from around Strathalbyn.

Kimberley: So what kinds, of people go on a Tuesday night? Have you got young and old, experienced people who just want to get out and have some dancing in their lives.

Daryl: Who goes, well, we have a variety of people. We're primarily the older crowd, but we're tracking a few slightly younger people. And yeah, I think it depends on what their need is. The local girl, we have a local girl, Sam, who comes along who works from home and so she's excited that she can have something to go to which is near home, is social, is exercise, is working her brain in a different ways, getting her off, her bum because she does accounting style, work, I think, and quite a few retired people. We have a very keen person who comes from, as I said, from Mannum. And she also goes to, Adelaide twice a week for lessons in different styles of dancing. So we have a bit of a variety really. Yeah. And not all couples. we've got about five single ladies now who come along. So they are having terms of being lead and this is a normal problem of having, too many ladies and a lot of, irony in that. Traditionally men do the lead. but always ladies learn quicker. So I don't understand why, but it's almost a rule of dancing. So one of our new couple have come along from word of mouth. She's taking into it very quickly and he's really struggling but he's persisting. he's taken to it. He's watching his YouTube he's practicing. So they've only been coming for about four weeks, but he is starting to make progress. That's the sort of people it's really anybody we're happy to have young people. There some young people, we've had a few that come along for a while prior to their weddings. So they want to get a little bit of waltzing experience without, going too far into it. They choose not to pay for serious dance lessons. They just want to have a little bit of knowledge so they don't look completely goosey when they're doing their wedding dance. That's the sort of people we're getting along and mostly people who just want to have a relaxing evening and enjoy themselves. So now I didn't think about if people are interested in looking at learning a bit more about why people do it and who does it and what the benefits are. There was a very interesting article in the ABC News. So if you get your finger out in your phone, you can search for on the ABC for an article on the 26 June. So that's saying dancing is good for the heart and good for the brain as exercise socializing helps reduce dementia risk. So this is where the universities have done studies now and they've nominated this activity as being the number one anti dementia activity for that very reason. And it's sort of interesting that we have some of the couples who come along. Their intimacy isn't so much so suddenly once a week they're holding, each other close for a time period. And I think that's helping their relationship as well as they have a reason for holding each other closely. It's quite good from that point of view.

Daryl: To answer the original question, we're getting a variety of people and we are open to anybody coming along and we're open to our dance club evolving in whichever way it might evolve.

Kimberley: You mentioned at the start that there's benefits in fitness and socialization and using your brain in a different way, but it sounds like there's so many more benefits than just that, that you just don't even think about everything up to, as you said, couples having a reason to be close to each other and to do a joint activity together. And you just don't think of that sort of thing as something that you might just need an excuse to go and do. So that sounds really good. Now while you've been talking, I've been thinking about stories that my mum and my grandma used to tell me. My grandparents would run dances very regularly at the Wistow Hall, which you've already mentioned, and it was every week. And my mum grew up having to do this as the child of the people organizing it. And so she had to learn all the dances. And when she was younger, when she got tired, it was sleeping under the chairs and staying out of the way. And it was really a big social thing and a way of life for a lot of people. Do you see that as something that will, at least for the people involved, become something that they do just as part of their lives, rather than a special event, getting ready for a wedding or some other thing that's happening?

Daryl: Well, I think that would be good. I mean, the thing about today is there's millions of things that we can do and there's millions of ways that people promote what they want you to do. We're fighting against, television programs. We're fighting against all, sorts of activities to try to keep this sort of activity, going. So I think back in the days you're talking about, there's probably less things on offer. There is also definitely much more of that sense of community. So I think once you get a little dance club going, you do have a sense of community with those people that you see every week. And that's where we're thinking that eventually we might offer our, monthly dance as well, so that people can put on their glad rags and dress up. We went to a ball at Tailem Bend for the, Murray Land Dance Group that is based at Tailem Bend, and people really enjoyed dressing up all the way, with men wearing gloves that were matching their partner's suits and things like this. We didn't get that involved in it. We dressed nicely and that was okay. So, yeah, I think it is that sense of community, which we've probably now, lost a lot of ways. Yeah, so that's what we're offering. it, we're trying to keep the prices quite reasonable and the Woodchester Hall Committee are okay with that. so in the beginning, we're giving them only a small amount of money. Now we're building our numbers up to get started to get a bit of income because the hole is reasonably old and we'd like that hole to stay there and keep being used. They used to have a regular yearly, gathering there at the end of the year and they got a lot of people coming to that. So I just think it's good to remind ourselves that, community is important and activities are important. It's easy to sit down on the couch, whether you're watching television or whether you're YouTubing, or whether you're doing whatever you're doing. Time gets away very quickly. and if you get out and get involved with, people, I think it works in the long term, works very much in the benefit, especially for your emotional and all your mental health from that point of view.

Kimberley: Sounds like a really good activity to be involved in. I think we had better ask again about all the vital details about where to, go and when to go and what it costs.

Daryl: Okay, so we're at the Richardson Hall, which is in Callington Road at Woodchester. We meet at 07:00 p.m. On every Tuesday, 07:00 p.m. Till 09:00 p.m.. Yeah, that's about the whole details. Just bring yourself, bring a comfortable pair of flat, well fitting shoes. You don't want shoes to flop around underneath your feet, which some people turn up with. Yeah. and apart from that, there are also, other venues in the area if you're interested in looking for them. So that's the details. Ten p. M Tuesday, Callington Road, Woodchester. And come with a smile on your face and leave with a smile on your face.

Kimberley: It all sounds like, an awful lot of fun and I reckon that you'll be seeing a few extra people at Woodchester on a Tuesday night sometime very soon. Thanks so much Daryl, for coming to have a talk to us on What The Hills. It's been great to hear about this Woodchester Community Dance club and exactly how the dance club works and how we can be involved. It's really good.

Daryl: Thank you very much for having, me.

Kimberley: That's all for What The Hills this week. Tune in next week for more local stories from the Adelaide Hills on Lofty 88.9, and Lofty.org.au at midday on Monday and in your podcast app anytime. What The Hills is produced on Peramangk land in the Adelaide Hills in South Australia. Music is written and produced by Daniel Biggs, voiceovers by Andrew Challen What The Hills is produced and edited by Studio 4. If you have a local story to share, get in touch with us on social media.

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Ginger Rogers did it backwards and in high heels.  And the Woodchester Community Dance Club is now giving people the opportunity to learn to dance in a friendly, comfortable club. 

Some listeners will remember the days of the regular community dance, or when dancing in the arms of your partner was a weekly occurrence.  The club wants to bring back those days, without the stress and expense of formal classes.

Daryl Owen joined me this week to talk about all the benefits of dance, and how you can get involved.

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There's been a lot of talk over the past couple of years about the need for a commuter rail service between the Adelaide Hills and the metropolitan area.

On the surface the idea sounds like a good one.  Get cars off the freeway, and give people a stress-free way to get to work on convenient public transport.

But when you start to think about it, all sorts of problems arise, from where to put the track, to how we'll get from our homes to the closest railway station.

One person who's thought a lot about these problems is Douglas McCarty.  His career has given him an unique insight into the issues and the solutions, and he thinks he has a plan that could see us all catching trains to town within five years.

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Voiceover: Welcome to What the Hills. With a lifetime of living, here we are, Adelaide Hills locals just like you. That's why What the Hills is your program for the Adelaide Hills. We focus on the stories from the place where you live. And now here's your host, Kimberley Franklin.

Kimberley: There's been a lot of talk over the past couple of years about the need for a commuter rail service between the Adelaide Hills and the metropolitan area. On the surface, the idea sounds like a good one. Get cars off the freeway and give people a stress free way to get to work on convenient public transport. But when you start to think about it, all sorts of problems arise, from where to put the track to how we'll get from our homes to the closest railway station. One person who's thought a lot about these problems is Douglas McCarty.

His career has given him an unique insight into the issues and the solutions, and he thinks he's come up with a plan that could see us all catching trains to town within five years.

Kimberley: On What the Hills This week, I'm talking to Douglas McCarty, who is going to tell us all about some plans that he has for reconnecting rail in the Adelaide Hills, and more particularly, in Mount Barker. Hello, how are you doing?

Douglas: Hello, how are you?

Kimberley: I'm great.  Well, let's find out a little bit about you to start with. You're obviously quite interested in transport and rail in the Adelaide Hills, but you've got a couple of other interests, too.

Douglas: Well, that's true. I've been involved in a few things that are going on with the Mount Barker Council and the development of this area, having been a resident here for 25 plus years now. And most of it stems from my checkered history.   I graduated in civil engineering from Sydney University way back, then I went to London or England a year after that, and I was working with … Partners and mycolleagues in the Research and Development Department had just come back from getting the prizes for the glass walls on the opera house.

Kimberley: Oh, okay.

Douglas: So it was a very august company and far over my head, but they kept me on for some strange reason for another five years. Then I came back to Adelaide.  I actually spent a year in London training as a secondary teacher. Didn't use that to start well, I did a little bit of teaching to start with. Then I went into work for Australian National Railways as a design construction maintenance engineer for a decade. Then Adelaide University in Civil and Environmental Engineering. Then back into high school.

Kimberley: Teaching from university to high school. That's a big change in everything, really, isn't it?

Douglas: I was lucky because my wife was a very experienced and very talented secondary teacher. English and drama. So, apart from fact, I've built an awful lot of play sets.  I sort of absorbed the educational lifestyle in that time we lived together and it wasn't too hard, fortunately, and initially I was working in schools close to where she was working at the time and yeah. So we sort of  knew our way around the traps. I don't know if the students thought so much. I felt that way.

Kimberley: As long as you were comfortable.

Douglas: Yeah, it was lovely. It was Mount Barker High, Oakbank, Birdwood, yeah.

Kimberley: All around the local area. And so it sounds like you've got a pretty good background to be discussing this kind of topic. And it's not just with me. You've been talking to the whole community about this and trying to get some interest and educate people about what our options might be.

Douglas: Well, that's been the intention. It was only a year ago that the state government is saying there's no way we could build a railway to Mount Barker because it would cost us $6 billion. And if you try really hard, you could find an option that would cost $6 billion. And in fact, there were people touting to do it. This didn't seem right for me because I was working in the district engineer's office for this area. So one of my first jobs in the railways was actually to come up here and check out a smelly creek that was being blamed on the railway system without noting that the actual stream flowed from the abattoirs.

Kimberley: A little bit easy to find.

Douglas: It was my first visit to Mount Barker, and then I've  done bridge repairs and housing renovations and all kinds of things as part of the railway infrastructure. Right through the hills and up into the mid north as well as well as working on the standardization project.

Kimberley: Yeah.

Douglas: Okay, so, yes, I know the area, I've worked in it. I've also now lived here for a very long time and, of course, I've also in that life experience, had, various experiences of actually working and living using, rail systems, whether it was going to school in university in Sydney or whether it was catching the Tube to work in London on a holiday using the New York subway. We've been around. And then when we moved to Adelaide, we first lived in Semaphore when the train used to come right down to the jetty. And so I was commuting to work from Semaphore by the old Red Hen back, in the day.

Kimberley: I can imagine that all of those that you listed would be wildly different experiences from the Red Hens to the Tube to New York.

Douglas: Yes, they were totally different experiences. Breadth of experience is a good idea now.

Kimberley: I've got a vague memory from early childhood of catching a train with my grandma and it may have been Mount Barker to town. Is that something that might have happened?

Douglas: absolutely

Kimberley: Okay, so tell me a bit about the history of rail in Mount Barker, because if it was in my lifetime, and now we don't have it, what's happened?

Douglas: Well, it came into existence, really as one of those federation projects where, the mainland state capitals were being connected by rail. And so the line, I think, went as far as the wealthy residences at Mount Lofty to start with. It was continued further east, and on through Balhannah  to Nairne, to Murray Bridge, and then down to the border to Serviceton. And at Serviceton, if anyone is going that way, just pull off the road and go to the old Serviceton railway station. It's an absolute gem of a station. I think it's got the second longest platform in Australia after one of the Spencer Street ones.

Kimberley: Wow.

Douglas: And it was built for transshipping of freight and passengers from the South Australian railways onto the Victorian railways to continue that journey through to Melbourne. And that was in about 1890s. And during that time, someone came up with the bright idea, let's connect Mount Barker, this little village of Mount Barker, to the main line, and we'll continue it down the hill to Strathalbyn and on to Goolwa and Victor Harbor.

Kimberley: That’s a lovely idea.

Douglas: Yes. The first railways, of course, in South Australia were from Goolwa to Victor Harbor to transship freight from the barges to the port. So, that connection in about mid 90s began the passenger service from Mount Barker into the city. It continued merrily along on its way until, the wave of, well, let's say, neoliberalism in the 1990s, at an earlier stage, when Gough Whitlam came to power, he put out a call to say, it's silly to have all these different gauges in Australia. Let's have one rail system.

Kimberley: They should have done that at the start.

Douglas: So would anyone like to contribute their rail systems to the Commonwealth? And at the time, even now, that's a pretty terrific initiative. And it was Don Dunstan who took up the offer and said, South Australia is in. It was very helpful for the South Australian budget as well, of course, because it was an expensive system to keep. But it went all over the state and it shifted the grain harvest, and also country passengers all around the state, as well as lots of other things, like, the Penrice service to Outer Harbor, bringing, down the lead and zinc from Broken Hill and so on and so forth, as well as all those small lines over on the Eyre Peninsula, which I remember a three foot six gauge, but different again from the broad gauge.

Kimberley: Different again. Crazy that they let that happen. But I guess when different railways are built at different times by different interests.

Douglas: And by different engineers, too. And so, dare we bring this up? But the standard gauge, that four foot eight and a half, was a British gauge, but was adopted in a lot of places, usually where the British colonies went. But in Australia, we had some railway engineers who were of an Irish background and the Irish age was five foot three. Okay, so now we have our various gauges 1614, 35, I think it is, the number escapes me. I haven't used it too often, but standard gauge and broad gauge are the two. So, that's the history of it all. But, as I say, the railways shifted into ownership in south to the Convolution and I was working with it just around about that time. And then they began the dramatic work of extending the standard gauge so there was less interchange. And that proceeded at various times.  One of the inconveniences, of course, was this passenger service that ran through to Mount Barker and beyond because that was narrow gauge and the rest of the suburban system was broad gauge. But what they wanted was, of course, standard gauge track. By various devices, they were able to reduce the patronage. And eventually in about 1994 thereabouts, I think the last passenger service left Mount Barker. And it was shortly after that the last passenger service left Bridgewater and the broad gauge suburban service was converted to a single line just as far as Belair. And so, yes, you were cut off. One of my early memories was actually catching the train from Adelaide to Victor Harbor.

Kimberley: Yes.  and a lovely day out.

Douglas: And a lovely day out. Yes. What an easy way to get to the seaside. So, yes that  was one of the delights of the time.

Kimberley: Well, I'm glad my memory is correct. But, of course, we don't have a passenger train service now and Mount Barker - not just the town, but the entire district is growing so rapidly at the moment and there's a lot of growth yet to come that's caused a few issues with transport, especially passenger transport with so many people who live here in this wonderful place to live. But they've still got their jobs in town. So we're traveling down to town for work, for entertainment, for shopping and to visit family, all sorts of other things. So it seems to me that the freeway just isn't quite cut out to do everything that we want it to do anymore.

Douglas: Well, I certainly don't think it was designed for the level of population that's become a feature since 2010 when the rezoning took place. And as you say, that's continuing our pace right through the district, whether it's Mount Barker or Meadows or Nairne or Littlehampton or whatever. So all those places now have a lot of people commuting not necessarily all commuting to the centre of the city. So there's still going to be a need for complementary transport options. Some people will have to drive their cars because it would take them an enormous amount of time if they were having to travel by public transport and having to go into the middle of the city and then back out again because of the particular configuration of our public transport system, some would have that alleviated because busses can take devious routes around the town and that would be convenient for them. And it's really building on that complementary nature that public transport should have. That's where the rail fits in because it provides another service which connects up to, well, not only the city, but also other areas around the city on the way through. And that would become clear when we explain where those railway stations might be and the connections that should be available. And that's one of the reasons where some of the stations are. So that there is that interconnectivity throughout. Okay, so with an expanding population, a restriction on the freeway at the tunnels because you can't get much bigger.

Kimberley: No, we can't expand the tunnels. They are still fresh and new.

Douglas: A certain frequency of traffic accidents on the road.

Kimberley: And we all know what happens when there's just one crash at Bridgewater. Everyone's late for work.

Douglas: That's right. And it's also not a stress free trip. I mean I'm as good as anyone of wanting to go 110 wherever I can. But that means I've got to keep a very alert look out for the red lights ahead or the breaking ahead or the people putting their indicators on at short notice or whatever.

Kimberley: Or not putting them on.

Douglas: Or not putting them on. That's true. So all that requires a level, of concentration that you don't get when you're traveling on public transport and the drivers doing all that work.

Kimberley: That's right. You just sit back and read your book.

Douglas: Now, I added a further dimension to that. Having taken the bus to town on a couple of occasions recently. It's not a particularly relaxing environment. Still not a particularly comfortable environment.

Kimberley: It's not nice.

Douglas: And it's a very stop, start environment. So there is also a whole level of quality that is available on rail transport that you don't simply don't get on a bus. And I think that's an important factor, especially, after hard day’s work because it's quite nice to just relax.

Kimberley: on the train, get yourself home. And by the time you arrive at home, you've done all of that relaxing you're out of the office so you can get into your family time.

Douglas: That's right.

Kimberley: So, with this plan that you have for passenger rail to take us to and from the city, the suburbs, tell us what that looks like.

Douglas: Okay? Now, the first thing is we have to think of it as more multifaceted than the UBut. Let's be super quick. Let's hop in on Adelaide Station and hop out at Mount Barker Station. That was the 6 billion, dollar plan.

Kimberley: Okay.

Douglas: But it wasn't, actually, I don't think, a plan that was very useful for people other than a very small minority. What I think we have to think of is in terms of how do we service the Mount Barker community, growing Mount Barker and also Hills communities with a service, that you can walk to.

Kimberley: That'd be nice.

Douglas: Yes. Or you can cycle to if you're a bit more athletic and you've got the Lycra, or even without the Lycra.

Kimberley: Yes.

Douglas: If you can comfortably, in ten or 15 minutes, cycle to a railway station, put your bike in a locker, or take it on the train. That's one of the other advantages of trains. Then, that can be  a more convenient situation than having to drive and park and then get on at a centralized railway station. So that colored my thinking to say what we need is a combination. We need a suburban rail system through Mount Barker, where there's a number of stops and people can walk to them because they're close to home.

Kimberley: That makes sense.

Douglas: Our cycle or what have you.

Kimberley: Yeah.

Douglas: Then once you leave, Mount Barker, or Littlehampton even, there are a number of stations on the way that are fairly spaced out. And these are, if you like, country rail. So if we stopped at Balhannah and Bridgewater and Aldgate and possibly even Mount Lofty, then what we're doing is we're picking up on those communities semi rural communities along the line. And places like Balhannah are important because that could be a focus for everyone along the Onkaparinga Valley, even as far as Birdwood you could commute to Balhannah and hop on the train. So those options, I think, should be more a part of the rail system than with one stop Mount Barker. Done. Yes. Okay. Of course, the thing that links all these is the existing rail system, and most importantly, the existing rail corridor.

Kimberley: Yes, we have one.

Douglas: We have one. We don't have to go and buy land everywhere. And it's even got enough room on it to actually put up some nice parking stations for park and ride. So people can actually do a five minute car trip or a ten minute, 15-20 minutes car trip, and then get on the train in relative comfort, and similarly on the, return home. So we can do all that. And the plan that I've outlined had virtually no additional, land required. Yeah, there was one place in Heysen Boulevard I would have liked to have seen as a large park and ride facility. But we missed the boat. And the developers there have subdivided the land and, sold it off, as I understand. Which means we could still have a station, but we can't have the car facilities, the park and ride facilities that would have been quite useful.

Kimberley: There's a lot of houses packed into a reasonably small area there. So you’d hope that a lot of people would be able to walk.

Douglas: Oh, absolutely. That's right, yes.

Kimberley: Or take up that bike riding option.

Douglas: Or take up the bike riding. Or e-scooters.

Kimberley: We could see them all over town.

Douglas: Yes, that's right. So what we have after we leave Mount Lofty is then virtually the intercity service that goes from the hills to the city with a couple of stops on the way, which we need for passing trains on a single line track. And it's a single line track. because what I've envisaged doing is using the standard gauge line that exists.

Kimberley: That would be my next question. Would it be new line or existing line? So this is using the standard gauge.

Douglas: This is going on the standard gauge line, which is actually probably as good a rail track as you would find anywhere in Australia outside the Pilbara. Heavy duty rail, 60 kilogram rail for those who are in the know, concrete sleepers. Well,ballasted recently done up and able to take long and heavy freight trains but also short light rail cars, where you don't have to have 2 passing loops for one train to get past another. But you actually only need about 200 meters, because even on a six car configuration, they're only about 150 meters long. So that's the environment. And then when you look at the scheduled use of that line by the various contractors using it with the ARTC the Australian Rail Track Corporation, on average, about eight trains a day. That's counting both ways in 24 hours, and quite a number of those are at night. I know that doesn't delight the people around Blackwood particularly, but that's the way the freight services work. Very few in actual peak hour. So a little bit of shuffling. It's quite possible to integrate our passenger service into that freight service without significant delays to either.

Kimberley: So we can just fit our passenger trains into the little gaps, put them onto the side while the big freight train goes past, and then continue on merrily into town.

Douglas: Well, I think it seems remarkably logical, actually, to use an existing asset. And of course, what that means is it doesn't cost very much.

Kimberley: You keep anticipating my questions, because my next question was, what is all this going to cost? Clearly not the $6 billion.

Douglas: No. When you use the existing rail transport, there will be some extra track work required, but there will also be a lot of work required to repair the railway stations that have either been destroyed or fallen into disrepair.

Kimberley: They've just been neglected over decades.

Douglas: Absolutely. And maybe extended. I think I need to put another 25 metres onto the northern end of the Mount Barker platform to make it metro acceptable.  but we could do that quite comfortably.

Kimberley: There's space there for that.

Douglas: There's space there for that. We will need new railway stations at various places and some of those will have to connect into the metro stations, particularly Blackwood and Goodwood is my other preferred station. And then there's some track work required to get a standard gauge line into Adelaide Railway Station.

Kimberley: because the suburban trains don't use standard gauge.

Douglas: They don't.

Kimberley: Okay.

Douglas: But if we were to take a standard track right through to the jail, what they call the triangle, the jail, the, Adelaide. Why, in other pilots, we could take, one standard gauge line over onto some of the broad gauge lines that take the Belair line, which become double track into the railway station and make those dual gauge. In other words, add an extra rail and you can have both broad gauge and standard gauge using the same track, same track alignment, and take that into, say, about three platforms at Adelaide railway station. And we have access and we're in. That's all very doable. That's the track work side, the infrastructure side, if you like, the stations and so forth. There's also some signaling and bits and pieces like that to look after. But all those come up to a very tasty little number, which is around about $162,000,000.

Kimberley: Now, that seems like a lot of money in my bank account. But how does it compare with other big transport projects that have gone on around Adelaide over the last few years?

Douglas: Okay, I'm not saying we shouldn't do this, but if we looked at the freeway access into Hahndorf.

Kimberley: Yes.

Douglas: The budget for that is $250,000,000.

Kimberley: Okay. And your number was?

Douglas: $162,000,000.

Kimberley: That's not as much.

Douglas: That's not as much. And even if you add on some money for the rail cars, this is the cheap version, converting the 3000 class rail cars to standard age, we're looking at another $45 million for that. About a million dollars each car to refurbish.

Kimberley: Still, in my calculations, not as much as the Hahndorf interchange.

Douglas: No, it's not. Okay, we might like to compare that with the electrification of the Gawler line.

Kimberley: Let's do that.

Douglas: Okay, that cost $842,000,000.

Kimberley: That's even more.

Douglas: That's even more. Now, $70 million of that was for new rolling stock, new electric cars. And that would make the 3000 class available. But we might be interested in doing the same sort of thing for the Mount Barker line, some new carriages on the Mount Barker line. And I'm suggesting that instead of diesel, we go to hydrogen fuel cell battery, electric.

Kimberley: Very modern.

Douglas: Very modern. In fact, they're being introduced in Europe. They have no pollution output except a bit of water. We can use the hydrogen that's going to come out of the Whyalla Hydrogen plant.

Kimberley: There we go.

Douglas: Keeping it all in South Australia. It's a new technology in Australia that would put us, and certainly industry in South Australia at the forefront. These cars could be built in Australia because the companies that build them in Europe and around the world actually have production facilities in Australia.  Dandenong, and what have, you Ballarat, I think, as well. So that would add to our price. It might bring it up to $317, $320,000,000. But you can see it's still. This is actually restoring a whole service. This isn't just converting one over. This is restoring a whole service that currently doesn't exist.

Kimberley: Restoring and really modernized and very much modernizing it.

Douglas: Because with these new rail cars being electric very little noise.

Kimberley: Yeah, well, that's what I was about to ask. So you're doing it again, anticipating all my questions. For those of us who live near the interstate rail line, and there's passenger and freight trains, they are loud. They clickety clack loudly. They toot loudly. You hear the engine running, you hear the brakes and whatever other noises they're making. And of course, they do come through at all hours. For those people who will be living near these far more frequent trains, the passenger service that will be going up and down, what sort of noise can they expect?

Douglas: Well, I can't give you decibels, but it certainly is a very much quieter than any of those freight trains.

Kimberley: So it won't be like having a freight train going past 20 times a day.

Douglas: If people wanted to find out, they could stand next to one of the electric trains covers passed on the Gawler line. I don't know if people have experienced this in the state where they've been next to electric trains in Melbourne or Sydney or wherever. Everywhere else, they are very quiet. There's not silent, but they're very quiet, relatively. I'll just flag the good news.

Kimberley: Tell us good news.

Douglas: Yeah, there are initiatives of foot, in America to actually convert their main freight locomotives. Or at least there are tests going ahead to the same sort of system. Hydrogen fuel cell, battery, electric, because diesel locomotive is actually an electric locomotive with a big diesel generator on board. So if you generate the electricity silently.

Kimberley: You don't have that noise pollution. We all know about the smoke that comes from diesel.

Douglas: We don't have diesel fumes.

Douglas: That's right. In some of them have been very inventive and saying, okay, you know how the old steam engine used to have a tender, behind where they used to store all the coal? We could have a tender behind these locomotives. That was just a very big battery.

Kimberley: That sounds clever.

Douglas: It does

Kimberley: Just a modern interpretation on the same job, really.

Douglas: Isn't it the same thing? Your power unit actually has a large battery storage, as well as the actual axles on the ground being driven but of course on a tender like that you could drive the axles as well. Anyway that's future freight and I hold out that hope one day. One day. One alternative is to of course build a freight line around Adelaide and a lot of the traffic would then be diverted anyway because it's on its way to Perth and not into Adelaide.

Kimberley: So why should it go through our suburb?

Douglas: I won't get into that because that's another whole project and that's an expensive one. And this isn't.

Kimberley: The way that you've explained it. It sounds like we just sort out the track, update a few train stations, provide parking for people, get the rolling stock happening. How long would all of this take, do you think?

Douglas: Okay, I would say it takes time to get it right. Okay. I would say there'd probably be about a year to finalize all the design work, write the contracts for the construction mhm and get that started at least.

Kimberley: Yeah.

Douglas: Okay. Construction itself is fairly straightforward and that may take one year, it might take two.

Kimberley: It sounded when you explained it that it was fairly simple construction.

Douglas: It is very simple construction. Very simple construction. I'm a fairly simple engineer, I don't try to go for heroics.

Kimberley: Good, we like this.

Douglas: Now the next question is what rolling stock do we use? if we were to convert the    3000 class that could be possible within that two year time frame.

Kimberley: Wow.

Douglas: Because all we've got to do is take the bogeys off, send them over to Victoria, let them push the flanges in a bit further, the wheels in a bit further on the axle, put them back underneath, but on standard gauge.

Kimberley: Okay

Douglas: Job done. Almost. I'd like to see a change in the seating as well so it's more comfortable because it's a long trip.

Kimberley: It's about an hour, isn't it?

Douglas: It's about an hour according to my calculations. But it's got to be tested because where you put the passing loops and everything like that and the sort of frequency you want in your timetable, these finally determine where the track work needs to be.

Kimberley: That's for all the scheduling boxes.

Douglas: Yeah. It's a multifaceted solution and that's why I'm saying, yeah, a good year to do it. But the testing well that could be done. I couldn't get, could be done in six months. Not the two years that Talgo is talking about because we've got an Institute of Railway Technology at Monash University who can do the desktop analysis of it in the first place. We could even convert a couple of our 3000 class rail cars to standard gauge as a trial. But then bring them back on the standard gauge line and trial them down the hill and back up of course. And just see what times they could make to make it fit into a comfortable timetable for the drivers and the passengers.

Kimberley: We want to be going places when it's convenient for us. Getting to work on time.

Douglas: That's right.

Kimberley: Getting home at a reasonable hour.

Douglas: Yes, all of that. And I do believe it's possible to structure one's life around a particular timetable. Actually, going out and getting the train when you can and not having an   absolutely, every minute frequency of service. But just you plan your life a bit but just an appropriate frequency.

Kimberley: Well here's a question from the cynics among us and this is one that has come up with regard to services that we see disappearing. And that is we see the service providers, whether it's government or a contractor they think, well for example, we don't want to do buses to Lobethal anymore. So the bus that goes to town from Lobethal you have to catch it after lunch and you can't get home until two days later. And then nobody uses that bus service and the contractors or the government or whoever's making the decision says, well nobody used it. You clearly don't like busses, we'll take them all away. Is this the sort of thing that we want to avoid we might see happen? What's the likelihood of something like that?

Douglas: Well, two things. The first thing is I would think this would be a long term solution and   with a passenger service like this you can expand or contract the service by simply making longer trains or shorter trains. So that's a possibility for the variation in the resources you're putting in onto the track to cope with either fluctuating times or footy crowds. Okay, let's say festival crowds and also in the middle of the day maybe no one is going into town very much so you need two cars on and then when it hits the peak hour, we got six using the same frequency or perhaps double the frequency for peaks. But you're increasing therefore the carrying capacity by a factor of twelve. So that's pretty significant. And you're carrying about 1000 people per train which is also quite significant. If you have a rail service that is reliable and also frequent enough then some of these bus services don't need to go right to the city. They could in fact be interconnectors. So Lobethal might feed - the Lobethal bus - might feed to Balhannah and then you hop on the train at Balhannah because the bus drops you off at the station next to the platform. That's all been designed.

Kimberley: I can hear people in Lobethal cheering already.

Douglas:  and then again because you're not having a driver drive all the way to the city that can be a local pick up service or it can be someone picking you up from the Balhannah Railway Station as opposed to trying to pick you up from Grote Street or whatever it might be in the city. So that's the sort of interconnectivity that I think is a key feature for a good public transport system.

Kimberley: Well, it all sounds very good, but you're not the only one with an idea to bring passenger rail into the Adelaide Hills. We've had just recently an offer from Talgo to do their trial. What can you tell us about that and how does it compare with your plan?

Douglas: Okay, the Talgo thing has a couple of aspects of the tailgo train sets. The first thing is, Talgo provides passenger trains with an interchangeable bogey system. Well, actually, wheel system can be independent axles so that you can change from one gauge, to another. Now, I don't know whether they have yet built one that changes from broadcast to center gauge and vice versa. And what you simply do is you, run the trains through a 20 metre long converter that as the train goes through at about 15 km an hour, the wheels are moved in and out on their, axles and so you change from one to the other. Now, this is particularly useful in Spain and France, where they have a standard gauge high speed train system that connects into France. But then the local gauges are different and so they have to convert over to that. I don't think that's necessary. I think the track work that we have that would allow us to get into Adelaide Railway Station, as I've said, is not that much. I think it's about $30 million or something like that to convert all that. And that's being very on the general side, these convertible bogeys, if, we're looking at about 30 rail cars, would probably be about the same amount. But you don't have that technology. And the other thing is that I think there's a great fallacy with converting that technology. We could put it down right into the city near the Goodwood, railway station. And don't do the conversion there.  the key thing is not to join, into the Belair line because the Belair line has a lot of stops on it.

Kimberley: It does.

Douglas: And that would mean the journey time would be very much slower. And what we need is an express. What we need is the intercity express that goes from the hills right to Adelaide Station, with only two intermediate stops on the way.

Kimberley: Now, I know they do express buses. Is there such a thing as an express train?

Douglas: Oh, yes.

Kimberley: Okay.

Douglas: But it makes it very much more difficult if you're trying to work it within a timetable for an all stops service. I think my cunning plan is keep them completely separate.

Kimberley: Okay.

Douglas: And then the Belair line can chug along on the lovely scenic trip that it has, stopping everywhere. And we just whizz past and have our intermediate stops for transfers to other, public transport services. That connected various places, including a Goodwood a nice interchange there, would connect to the Glenelg Tram, but also to all the no longer line services, instead of having to go all the way into Adelaide Rabbit Station. So that seems cunning to me at Flinders University and to Flinders Medical Center and so on.

Kimberley: All the places we need to go.

Douglas: All the places we need to go. So that's, again, the key interconnectivity thing. So that's the first thing about Talgo. The second thing about Talgo is they do have a system of tilting trains so that you can go around the corners a bit faster because you're leaning like you're doing a bike. That could be appropriate, that could be necessary. I'm not sure that it is, because we'll have to have a very careful measurement of how much gain there is from that much more speed, and it may not be worthwhile. Maybe we can just do a very good fast service. And we're talking trying to get it down to about 45 minutes, as opposed to about 60 that I've calculated at the moment. And just as a comparison, the, train trip to Gawler is 42, takes 55 minutes.

Kimberley: Okay.

Douglas: Okay. And we're trying to get the service to Mount Barker, which is 55 km, taking about 58 minutes. That's not a bad effort, is it? Again, the number of stops is very significant in that. but we have to prove it. We do have to do the test, and I think we could do our own test quickly, rather than waiting for the time for Talgo to reengineer their system to make it suitable for the Australian gauge changing and so forth. So, tilt train, maybe not the other things with regard to it, I'm not sure how the tilt train would go on our high level platforms. That's to be seen. Most of Europe, as you know, has low level platforms. And that means you can get the centre of gravity of the rail cars lower. And this helps with the cornering and also helps with the geometry of the mechanics of their tilting system, because they've got to have a high pivot point in each car. So they're the technical, things that may simply not be necessary.

Kimberley: Okay. A little bit of over servicing in their ideas at the moment, perhaps.

Douglas: Well, there are people interested in making sure that this will trying to get that system adopted, who will probably benefit from that, where that may or may not be a good thing.

Kimberley: Okay.

Douglas: The other point I'd like to make is about electrification. As I said, the Gawler line has been just done. Yes, it was 42 km it cost for the electrification, not including the rolling stock, about $580,000,000, something like that. Now, that works out to about $13.6 million per kilometre. Now, coming up through the hills, single track, we could probably have that. So we might do it, in say, $7 million per kilometre. That would mean for our 55 km, around about $400 million. But with the hydrogen cars that cost wouldn't be needed. And we'd be doing the whole project for about the same cost as it would cost to put electrification through to Mount Barker. So that's why I'm saying let's go Hydrogen. Don’t spend enormous amount of money on electrification because it's actually yesterday's technology. It was good in 2010 2005 2014 when it was all proposed.

Kimberley: Yeah, but that was years ago now.

Douglas: That was years ago now. Certainly years ago as far as renewable technologies and pollution free technologies.

Kimberley: And that's what we're all looking for. Something that's going to be renewable and not cause pollution because it is a necessity. And we want to do everything in the best way possible. If we can do our necessities in a way that's renewable, that's going to make a lot of people very happy, I think. So what's your prediction for how things could pan out over the next few years?

Douglas: Optimistic.

Kimberley: Optimistic. That's good.

Douglas: I think there could be a rush of blood to see. It's a really good idea. I think four years, i, think we could have it in for the next election.

Kimberley: That's a big statement there.

Douglas: It is, actually. Yeah. But it's quite feasible, I think, within that time frame. And as I said on the PowerPoint, it still requires a lot of cooperation and collaboration and creativity to make it happen. But that's feasible. And if not within the four years? Well, shortly after. I think it's quite realistic. That's certainly within a time frame of doing any major roadworks anywhere around, that.

Kimberley: They all take that long anyway, don't they?

Douglas: They do indeed. Yeah, they do indeed.

Kimberley: Okay, well, big things possibly in store for the future, and it's possible that we could all look forward to catching trains into town and back again for work, for shopping, for festivals, as you mentioned, for all sorts of things in the future that we can see.

Douglas: I would like to think so, but I also don't think we can be entirely passive about it.

Kimberley: We need to make some noise.

Douglas: We need to make some noise. And the Residents Association, we're quietly trying to get a petition together to say we want to train. And we'll be taking some steps to, get that out and about and a bit more information out and about, thanks to programs like yours to push it forward.

Kimberley: Well, I think there'll be a lot of listeners who will be right behind you with that. So good luck getting all of that happening. Look forward to seeing things happening sometime in the near future.

Douglas: Good luck to us all.

Kimberley: Thanks for talking to us about reconnecting rail in the Adelaide Hills.

Kimberley: That's all for What The Hills this week. Tune in next week for more local stories from the adelaide Hills on Lofty 88.9 and Lofty.org au at midday on Monday and in your podcast app anytime. What The Hills is produced on Peramangk land in the Adelaide Hills in South Australia. Music is written and produced by Daniel Biggs, voiceover by Andrew Challen. What The Hills is produced and edited by Studio 4. If you have a local story to share, get in touch with us on social media.

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So I was quietly minding my own business producing a weekly podcast and radio program, when the radio station was invaded by work experience students.

Naturally they needed to make their own episode of What The Hills, and here it is.

They're talking about how school can be improved, so listen in and get a student's take on the education system.

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Does Mount Barker need a green grassy town square, a bustling commercial city centre, or something in between?  That's the question many of us have been discussing over the past couple of years as the future of a large block of vacant land in the centre of town was decided.

Kym Burke of Burke Urban Investments has been central to the decision making process.  I met with him to ask some questions about the development and what we can expect.

This is the second half of the interview.  To hear the entire conversation check out previous episodes of the What The Hills podcast.

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Kimberley: It's June, and I'm talking to Mayor Ann Ferguson from Mount Barker District Council with our June update. Hi, Ann.

Mayor Ann: Good afternoon, Kimberley. And good afternoon, listeners. And isn't this sunshine sneaking through the clouds just wonderful?

Kimberley: Just a little bit of Sunshine to remind us what we're missing out on.

Mayor Ann: I think that's right. It's winter.

Kimberley: But you haven't been having winter recently. You've been off in the Northern hemisphere enjoying a little bit of warmth.

Mayor Ann: I have.

Kimberley: How did all this go?

Mayor Ann: Well, Malmo, • the summit of climate change was a real education. I knew that I would learn a lot and I could exchange to the participants what we do here in Mount Barker. But we do so much in Mount Barker. And the staff did a Mount Barker Living In Nature, and that's what we want to promote, that we're living in nature and we have this wonderful green area that just indicates that it's a tree change and it's wonderful. So I was able to share that with people all around the world and let them know just what Mount Barker's doing. And in return, I learned what they were doing in Malmo with their refugees and their community consultation and how they go about that. And I could talk to you for an hour or so about that, but I won't, • because it's a subject that just needs its own time and space.

Kimberley: What was one of the big things that you've taken away from Malmo that you think we might be able to use here?

Mayor Ann: I think the way they do community consultation, they start it with the four year olds.

Kimberley: Four year olds?

Mayor Ann: Four year olds.

Kimberley: Well, they're the community of the future, aren't they?

Mayor Ann: They are. And it's about young people feeling comfortable putting their opinion forward and knowing that it's going to be recognized and discussed and result come back to each and every one of them on the decision that's made moving forward. And I thought that was amazing.

Kimberley: Terrific. Well, we look forward to seeing some of that happening in Mount Barker. Now we've got some other topics to talk about. So I need you to unpack your suitcase, put that away, and let's have a chat about this state summit that's coming up in Mount Barker.

Mayor Ann: The Summit of Minds is really something very exciting that's happening. It's about scientists and artists and the community and business leaders all coming to Mount Barker to discuss and address environmental and social challenges, which there are many. But this is an opportunity to everybody to communicate what they want. And this is going to be, I believe, really community consultation and good outcomes from that consultation, because sometimes we consult with the community and we think we report back to them, but often it's not what the community expects. And I think this is an opportunity for community to say, Well, I've contributed, but I want to know why and how those decisions came about. And I think this is a great opportunity for everybody to be part of it and moving forward to make our district a much better and more dynamic.

Kimberley: And there'll be a lot of different types of people involved in this summit, scientists and artists, community leaders and business leaders as well, and just regular people.

Mayor Ann: From the community, just people like you and I, they've all got an opinion and it's valued and they put a different slant. And everybody has a unique gift to give when a question is asked, and it's about encouraging each and everyone to be comfortable enough to come forward and speak. And sometimes we have people that take over the talking part of consultation. Well, I would really like to see everybody have equal time and feel as though they're respected and able to be heard and listen to, because sometimes you can hear, but you don't listen.

Kimberley: That happens in a lot of situations now. It's not just meetings and people talking and discussing things. There's a couple of events involved as well. I've heard that there's a special film screening happening at Wallis and a big commissioned artwork.

Mayor Ann: Yes. How exciting is that?

Kimberley: What's the film?

Mayor Ann: It's going to be Regenerating Australia, that's the title of it. And it's going to be held at the Wallis Cinemas and the First Nations artwork is to be painted on site. So it's going to be a doing event, a listening event, and being part of it. So I would say, and I know it's going to be towards the end of July, and I don't know whether it's the 28th or 29 July, but watch this space and make sure you are there, because it's history in the making.

Kimberley: Yeah, it sounds really exciting and I think there'll be a lot of people who want to be involved with that.

Mayor Ann: Absolutely.

Kimberley: There's been some news recently from Callington about a heritage smelting site. Callington's got a huge mining history.

Mayor Ann: Callington is a little gem that has been tucked away and overlooked for many years, but with the enthusiastic archaeologists down there have been digging around and with their brushes and their little brooms and their dust pans and uncovering all kinds of magical things that tell so many stories about the history of Callington. And I know Councillor Harry Seager is really excited about this because this is one of his babies. He's been promoting this for such a long time. And these ruins represent the only surviving smelting works within South Australia known to demonstrate more than one stage of the Welsh process. So this is really important about South Australia's history and how it's been involved with them, copper mining and how it's made a difference. And I don't know whether you've had the opportunity of going down there, but if you go down there and you are given a tour, you can see where footprints have gone into the slag and they are there and have been there since the day dot and all this history. And they've uncovered little slivers of wood, which has obviously been from the shingles on the roof. So there's all these magical little pieces that they are putting together. And we just want this to be permanently put on the State Heritage Register so it can be preserved forever. So if that happens, we will need funding to roof it and make sure that it's there forever and it will be just part of South Australia's amazing history.

Kimberley: That sounds amazing. And we know that there's always been, over the last 100 years or so leftover bits of Callington's mining history, but now they are starting to come to the surface. Now we're getting State Heritage Register recognition for them. I think there's a big future ahead for the history in Callington, and tourism. Absolutely.

Mayor Ann: It's just something that I think for that part of the world. And, of course, Council has this land, so it's there, it's safe, and it'll be preserved potentially forever.

Kimberley: That's great. All right. Now, speaking of preserving things, there are a few things around the area that need a bit of repair. After our bushfires that we had a while ago, the Cuddlee Creek Bush fires really hit Echunga and Harrogate hard. And there's a lot of burnt areas in need of recovery, a lot of natural areas, natural bushland. So what's happening with that?

Mayor Ann: Well, there's 7700 hectares of burnt area in the district, and I was out there last week talking to some of the residents, and they were identifying the trees along the side of the road that have been burnt that will never regenerate. So they need to be cut down because these are a reminder of that devastating fire.

Kimberley: They've got enough reminders without those trees there.

Mayor Ann: Absolutely. And they are sheoaks. A lot of them are sheoaks, and they have been beautiful trees in their day, but now they're just like tombstones, reminding the residents that are living there that this is what happened and it doesn't allow them to move on. So I think with the funding that's come through, that we can plant new trees, regenerate and help those. And I must say, the community out there have been just amazing, how they have cleaned up and looked after the area. I just need to congratulate each and every one of them because they've been fabulous. But the federal funding of $325,000 that was secured for ecological and economic recovery in the District, I don't know whether that's enough, but at least it's a start. And it gives some hope because when the fire went through, federal government didn't understand there were two councils. They just thought it was Adelaide Hills.

Kimberley: Which is going to cause a few problems, because the fire affected both councils quite heavily.

Mayor Ann: 33% of the footprint was in Mount Barker Council. And so that's been a little bit of a challenge for us because they just didn't realize there were two councils. And yes, Adelaide Hills Council needed the funding. I agree with that. But also our residents felt as though they were neglected.

Kimberley: Yes.

Mayor Ann: And that is a bit sad because when you've lost everything, you've lost your cattle, you've lost your lifestyle, you've lost your water, you've lost everything. The last thing you want is not to be recognized as part of the area.

Kimberley: That's right. You don't want someone saying, well, they are in the same situation as you, but they can get help and you can't.  Sorry.

Mayor Ann: It's been a bit of an issue, but I think we're moving on and we just need to deliver local biodiversity and look after our wildlife and habitat. And if you go out there for a drive and you see as you drive past the Cemetery and then go up the back way, it's very rewarding seeing the regrowth of trees that have just sprung up because they needed the heat to regerminate. And so it's exciting, but we've just got to get out there and get all those sheoaks out and dead trees out so they don't fall on the fences that have already been replaced, or fall on the road and cause a real damage.

Kimberley: I was out there just the other day and the regrowth is amazing. But you're right, all of those reminders are still there. And you do think about the native vegetation and the native animals that are supposed to be there and they need that plants and the habitat to come back. So it's great to see Council and community groups really working hard on that.

Mayor Ann: It is. It's very rewarding. And once again, I would love to thank the community of Harrogate and Brukunga for all the hard work that they have done, because it's been amazing

Kimberley: Change of topic.  And something that is quite top of mind for a lot of people at the moment is the draft annual business plan for Council. Always gets a lot of discussion happening.

Mayor Ann: Well, the draft business plan is what we have put together and we've put out for the community to discuss. And it's always a real challenge to deliver a business plan because the needs of the community and when you have a growing community like Mount Barker District, the challenges are multiplied by many and we're so aware of challenges in society today, the cost of living, the cost of petrol, and the last thing we need is Council rates going up. But the thing is, the cost to Council has been so significant. With the diesel prices going up and all of these challenges that we've had, we just cannot deliver the services that are requested without upping our rates; and we've tried to keep them to CPI. And I think the staff have done a great job and the elected members have really put their mind to it and identified the real needs and where we can spend the money. But it's often very difficult as a ratepayer to understand why rates go up when they believe that often they don't use the facilities, but sometimes we don't understand that the footpaths, the roads, the lighting, all these things that just happen, we (council) pay for. It's a challenge and also an opportunity for us to educate our community. But there are so many organizations in Mount Barker that can help people who are struggling. And Council also helps people if they are having difficulty paying their Council rates. So you only have to contact Council and say, look, can I have some assistance? I don't understand how I can delay paying my council rates or whatever. So I implore you to ring Council or be part of coming into Council or putting a submission in about the annual business plan. It's a draft and it's your opportunity now to have your input. But we look at all the things that we have to do. I mean, we've got the money for, almost all the money for the aquatic centre. We need to build a new civic centre. There's so much going on that's required that we can't stop, because if we stop now, when we go to do it, in a year or two's time, it will be twice the cost So there's just, inflation is something that's really very frustrating. And it just seems as though it's just caught up this year. Everything has sort of come after Covid and the war in Europe. It just seems to tumble down and it's like this mountain landing on top of us and we don't know how to get out of underneath it. It's a real challenge.

Kimberley: We're all doing our best. And I think that Council is, just like the rest of us, having to pay higher costs for everything, having to provide the same services when prices are rising. It's a juggling job and it's trying to work out the best way to do what Council can for the community.

Mayor Ann: That's right. Young families and the older people just sometimes don't know how to get out of this. What I'll call it a mess.

Kimberley: We're all in a mess sometimes. Yeah.

Mayor Ann: But do look at the draft annual business plan and do put your submission in and let us know what you think. And you might have an idea if we can do something a little bit better or a little bit smarter that we haven't thought of. So please be part of the draft annual business plan and get your submission into Council.

Kimberley: When does it close?

Mayor Ann: By Thursday, the 23 June.

Kimberley: Okay.

Mayor Ann: So that's not far away.

Kimberley: No, it's not. So get your submissions into Council. If you need help with your rates, contact Council. Don't sit there worrying about it. And Council can also put you in touch with people who can help you work out your household budget or perhaps get a little bit of help along the way. So Council is there to help. Next topic, Country Cabinet. Now, the Country Cabinet has been revived by our new state government. And you've sent an invitation for them to come to Mount Barker?

Mayor Ann: Yes. After the election, I sat down and I wrote to absolutely every politician that got a portfolio.

Kimberley: Okay.

Mayor Ann: And invited them, each and every one of them, to visit Mt. Barker, to see the opportunities that are here for state government to partner with local government, to make this a better place to live, because it was the 1300 hectares that was rezoned by the Labor government in 2010 that gave us the challenge of managing the development.

Kimberley: I'd kind of like to see them come and take a bit of responsibility for that decision.

Mayor Ann: Peter Malinauskas, I asked Premier was up last week, and I must say, Kimberley, we've had five ministers up in Mount Barker in the last week.

Kimberley: Well, that's good to see some interest from state government.

Mayor Ann: We've had Chris Picton, he came up at the hospital. We had Stephen Mulligan, we had Peter Malinauskas, we had Nat Cook come up on Sunday. She was talking about homeless and domestic violence. And we also had Zoe Bettison up this last week about tourism and talking at Hahndorf. So we've had a good supply of ministers visit us. So they are very much aware that Mount Barker will be the largest city outside of Adelaide within the next ten years. And the Premier is very aware of the challenges that uh we have, which is really heartening because he promised us a new hospital and he's going to deliver a new hospital. And I think this is the first time that we've had a promise and a commitment after the promise. So I am really looking forward to the next few years where we have all these things delivered. And the biggest thing we need is the Heysen Boulevard to connect.

Kimberley: Don't we ever? Yes. We need roads that are going to take us where we need to go, to carry the traffic and to deal with all of this growth that we're experiencing.

Mayor Ann: And when we do have our Country Cabinet up here, it gives the community an opportunity to come and listen and put their point of view to the party and let them know exactly how they feel and how they want Mount Barker to move forward hand in hand with the state government and also having the federal government working with us, the three levels of government working together, you get absolutely a fantastic result. And we are so blessed to have Dan Cregan and Rebekah Sharkie working for us in this region and promoting the needs of our communities.

Kimberley: We certainly are. So how's the food mapping project going?

Mayor Ann: The food mapping is going really well. Mount Barker District Council is a member of the Food Systems Working Group, which includes eight other South Australian councils, Green Adelaide Wellbeing SA and the Heart Foundation. The term food system describes the various elements that go into growing production and marketing and distribution and consumption and disposal of food. Now this is such a topic that we need to understand, and we need to understand that we really need to eat seasonally.

Kimberley: We really do. And gee, it's cheaper when you do that, too.

Mayor Ann: And it's so much fresher and has all the vitamins and minerals that we need. Mt Barker was the second of the four councils to host our local food system workshop. So we're up there with the rest of them. And I'm really proud of the staff and there were 35 people that attended the workshop here in Mount Barker. So our next step is for Council to begin to raise awareness of these projects to further mapping and ongoing engagement. So we need you, our community, to get on board so you can be part of it. And then again, it comes back to education. It's about teaching our young people what's fresh, what is best food miles are really important. And what do they say; from paddock to the plate or paddock to freezer, to know where your food comes from and is it in season? And, you know, we don't have to eat watermelon in the winter. We've got lots of other beautiful fruits.

Kimberley: We do, yes.

Mayor Ann: So it's about thinking about what's local, what's fresh and supporting our local growers. And I think that's really important to buy locally as much as we can so we can support and keep our community viable and support our farmers and growers. And it's really important. And that includes the vineyards, and it's very important.

Kimberley: I support our local vineyards with great enthusiasm.

Mayor Ann: And also what is becoming really trendy is the gin and the whiskey, all the distilleries.

Kimberley: Oh, yeah.

Mayor Ann: And we're just getting a great name for being so diverse in what we can produce. And I just encourage people to support the wonderful projects that we have. I went to a function at Hahndorf with Udder Delights last week, and the cheese is there. My goodness me, we are so lucky to be living in the Adelaide Hills and to have such beautiful food right on our doorstep.

Kimberley: I can't think of a better place to live if you're going to be interested in food mapping and in where our food comes from and how it's processed and how it's consumed, and then how the waste is disposed of, because we do all of that right here.

Mayor Ann: And it was interesting. I was talking to one of the staff members during the week and we were talking about that circular economy and he was saying, But, Ann, we've been doing that for years. Remember when the chooks in the backyard, you give your scraps to the chooks, uh you get your eggs, you put the manure back on the garden. And so it goes around in that circle. So it's not something new, it's just something that we've got a little bit lazy about.

Kimberley: We need to get back into that and make sure that the food we're eating is amazing and what we are doing to care for it through its whole life and to manage all of that is just as amazing.

Mayor Ann: And I think one of the things I learnt when I was in Ireland a couple of weeks ago is about soil management and the microorganisms that you have in the soil indicate just exactly how nutritious the fodder and the silage will be because you've looked after the soil and the soil will then look after what grows in it.

Kimberley: Correct. Well, we started off talking about your trip. We've ended talking about your trip. It's obviously still top of your mind. Have you finished unpacking?

Mayor Ann: Yes.

Kimberley: Good.

Mayor Ann: I finished unpacking and I put all my summer clothes away Not away. Just on the bed up in front of the house.

Kimberley: Okay, so they're half done that's okay. Well, it's been fantastic talking to you to get the June update from Council and looking forward to doing the same again next month.

Mayor Ann: Absolutely, Kimberley. And thank you for taking the time and giving your time and I know you volunteer all of this and I just want to thank you on behalf of the community because it's an amazing gift that you have and you give to our community and it's about sharing and caring about your community and thank you so much.

Kimberley: I love doing it. But you've got to remember there are hundreds and thousands of us out there. All volunteers are precious, I reckon.

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In this month's catch up we find out what happened on the Mayor's trip last month.  We also cover some recent news items from Council including the Dynamic State Summit, the heritage smelting site at Callington, bushfire recovery, the draft annual business plan, Country Cabinet, and food mapping.

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This week my guest is Kym Burke of Burke Urban Investments.  They're one of the major developers you'll see working around the district, and they have been chosen by Mount Barker District Council to develop that large vacant block in the middle of town into a huge Town Centre complex.

We had such an in-depth talk that it's going to take two episodes to get through everything.  Here's the first half of our chat.

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Kimberley: U3A, or the University of the Third Age, sounds like something mysterious when you first hear about it, but it's really not that mysterious at all. In fact, it's something that thousands of people do every week. It's fun and social and a great way to learn and share skills for anyone over 50. I caught up with Geoff Edwards to hear all about what U3A is doing right here in the Adelaide Hills.

Kimberley: On what the Hills today I'm talking to Geoff Edwards from the University of the Third Age. And if you've never heard about that before, we're going to learn all about it today. Hi, Geoff.

Geoff: Hello.

Kimberley: How are you doing?

Geoff: I'm going well, thank you. Thanks for letting us talk.

Kimberley: Great to have you here. We better find out about you first. So tell us a little bit about U3A.

Geoff: Okay. I'm a Pommie immigrant, came here in 70s. I'm 72 years old, and when I retired about probably six years ago, I thought I'd try the U3A. My wife had been before me and, yeah, I'm on the committee now and I run a couple of the courses, so that's basically my outline in this game.

Kimberley: Sounds like you're definitely qualified to tell us all about it. So I guess my first question should be, what is U3A?

Geoff: Well, the initial start  for the University of the Third Age, it was started in the 70s in France at Toulouse's University, and they had a system that was linked up very much to universities. So they use the universities to help teach people. So it's fairly academic and by about, I think it was ‘82. It got over to the UK, but they changed the way it was done and we tend to do it in a similar fashion. So theirs was more about people who have retired and that's from 50 onwards, and it's about people helping each other. So people might run a class on something they know about or are keen about, and that's really where it all happens. So it's all volunteers. The University of Third Age may put some people off because they think, oh, well, I got to learn things and pass the test. There's nothing like that. It's basically the University of the Third Age.

Kimberley: What is the third age? I have to butt in…

Geoff: So the third age - when you're born is the first age. You have your middle part of life where you're working and when you retire is your third age.

Kimberley: Okay.

Geoff: I don't know if that's scientifically correct, but it's the way it sounds.

Kimberley:  it does.

Geoff: So that's really what the University of Third Age is. And it's been going… there are quite a few people in Australia. I'm trying to think how many there are. So in Australia we're about 100,000 members.

Kimberley: That's a lot.

Geoff: Yeah. And so it began in Melbourne, actually, and in South Australia we have 20, I believe, separate University of the Third Age groups. And the Adelaide Hills started in 2000. So we've been going virtually 22 years and we have about 300 members.

Kimberley: Okay. So who are the members? And what sort of people are they?

Geoff: People from all walks of life. So there are professionals, trades people, housewives, professional women, all sorts of people, people who've done or had all experiences in life and it's their time now. They've decided that they can do things and that's why some of the courses are really quite invigorating and they're good exercise, keep people's minds active, body's active. So there's a huge range of people. When you meet some fascinating people, people have had amazing experiences in life.

Kimberley: Sounds like there should be a minimum age limit.

Geoff: It tends to be around 52 years of age. I don't know that we've ever really held anyone to a particular age, but you've got to be retired. So that's important.

Kimberley: Local Adelaide Hills group. When did that one get started?

Geoff: 2000.

Kimberley: How did it get started?

Geoff: I don't know, really. I guess it would have just been interested. People would have seen it develop. There is an SA U3A, which is basically a group of people that get together every so often have a meeting and they actually look after our insurance. So we have to have insurance for people who come to the U3A. So every time you go to a meeting or a lecture, you have to sign so that you are covered. But the central body does the insurance for all of the people in the UCA. So that's a really good point. And they do have meetings. I don't know much about them. I'm the delegate from the Adelaide Hills U3A and I haven't been to a meeting yet.

Kimberley: Okay. So something for you to learn sometime very soon.

Geoff: But how it started, I don't know who started it, to be honest. It was before my time and I would just suggest it's retired people that have heard about it and decided they'd have a go.

Kimberley: And still going strong 20 years later.

Geoff: It is. Yeah. We've actually started to computerise. Now it always used to be hard copy, filling in forms to join and all this. And it left a lot of work for people who were doing all that paperwork. So now we have a program and two people in our group put a lot of hours in, I mean, a huge amount of hours into this. And this year was the first time that we actually enrolled online. So you pay online, you do everything online. And it's a beautiful program because the presenters can actually put a message out to all the people who come to a class and inform them what they may be doing.

Kimberley: Okay. So don't forget to bring your gear.

Geoff: Or bring your guitar or whatever. And also the people who are going into it can say if they're going to go on holiday, they don't have to make individual phone calls and everything. They can just put on it “I’m going to be away.” So that's good, because people of our age group go away sometimes.

Kimberley: Of course you do. So you've got all these people who want to go to a class or an activity, do something new. And you said that they come from all walks of life, generally older retired people.

Geoff: Yes.

Kimberley: As a rule. Who presents the courses? Who is out there doing the teaching?

Geoff: Yeah, the members do it. We have a financial group that go every week. I think it's every week. And the fellow that runs that is a member of the U3A, but he was in finances a lot of his life in some fairly high positions. So he runs a course like that. We have a geologist who used to be our President, Mark. He gives a lot of talks. He's always been fascinated by so many things. And Mark’s are sort of like that. If he goes overseas the first place, he visits the Museum, look at the rocks and he comes back. Not just the rocks. Interesting.

Kimberley: Oh, good.

Geoff: And he runs some really interesting historical talks.

Kimberley: Okay.

Geoff: So you've got people like that. You have people that have traveled a lot in their life, maybe overseas. And they'll talk about different countries that they've been to. And also in Australia, a lot of people who have traveled around Australia will talk about paths. So we have gardening um groups and they will go to lectures, visit gardens. We have dancing groups. There's a circle dancing group.

Kimberley: I've seen that one.

Geoff: Have you seen it? You actually watched it, have you?

Kimberley: I have.

Geoff: Okay, good. Because we have that online. And that's something my wife was doing before I retired. And it's wonderful. It's really good to see. I don't do it. She doesn't want me to.

Kimberley: You can be a student and a teacher at U3A. Yeah.

Geoff: Well, I run three courses. They're hardly teaching. I do a Ukulele thing where there are about 16 of us who get together and we play and sing and I might have more knowledge than some of them, but maybe I just talk louder than some of the others.

Kimberley: So it might be just leading rather than teaching.

Geoff: That's right. And we have two lunch groups. I run one of those and we organized to go somewhere every fortnight for lunch. I run a games uh thing where we use property to play board games or anything that people fancy. So we've had lectures by different people that are not necessarily in the U3A. We may have medical people come in and talk about fitness, physiotherapy for fitness beekeeping. We had someone come in, my brother in law, actually. We gave a talk on beekeeping, which was fascinating. And lots of people are interested in it.

Kimberley: Yeah.

Geoff: I had a journalist come in one time to talk about his experience of working in Brussels and Scotland. Fantastic stories. So there's always something of interest. And today, I'm sorry, yesterday, a lot of us, about 20 of us went and played Croquet here in Mount Barker.

Kimberley: Oh, very nice. Before the rain.

Geoff: Before the rain. Lovely. Yeah. There's plenty of things. I uh actually joined the Murray Bridge one and went pistol shooting. There was just an aside.

Kimberley: That's a lot of fun.

Geoff: There's lots of people in the community that will offer things to us and talk to people in conversation with anyone. As you know, you can find people who are really interested and have a great story.

Kimberley: Yes, I know a few people like that.

Geoff: This is the story of the U3A. There are so many people in the U3A that have such an amazing background that. Well, they'll introduce you to things. Lartinga. We had a walk around Laratinga, but a guided walk. And I've been to Laratinga loads of times.

Kimberley: You think you know it.

Geoff: Yeah. And you don't. You find out things that are quite amazing.

Kimberley: Tell us a secret about Laratinga.

Geoff: Well, just forgotten. But the fact that there are different levels and they all fill levels of the three different base lakes, whatever you want to call them. And talking about the different birds that come there and the condition of the place, I found it quite fascinating.

Kimberley: Okay. I might have to go on one of those. It sounds like it gets quite social as well. If you're meeting new people all the time and seeing the same people for lunch and that sort of thing.

Geoff: Well, it is a very social thing. We play ukulele and after ukulele we'll go to a coffee shop in Crafers and we'll have a coffee and talk. We have lunches. We had a lunch at the beginning of the year at the Bridgewater Hotel the end of last year, organized a lunch. There are about 60 odd people there in Auchendarroch so it is a good social thing. People have made really good friendships and some people think when they retire they've got nothing to do? Well, most of, I think, are struggling to find time.

Kimberley: It's the old story, always struggling to find time to do all those things that you are going to do when you have time. Where do the ideas come from for courses or classes or groups and get together? Is it always that someone says, I've got a thing that I want to share with everybody, or can people make requests and say, hey, there may be a photographer who could teach us some things?

Geoff: Yes, it's both of those things. What happens is we may have a committee meeting and ideas will come around. And someone says, well, I know someone who's pretty good at that. I'll talk to them. But you do get people who will offer to do things. They're already doing something there. And I went to a thing where a woman was talking about Kinesiology 20 years ago, was teaching this. She's a member of U3A. She's been in it for over 20 years, I think. But she was a speech therapist and she has a lot of knowledge about people with learning difficulties and ways of helping them. So that was a fascinating thing. And she was doing two of those. So not all of these are continued through the year. There are one off talks. We have a travel thing where people will come and speak and the travel thing will be one of our lectures. But there might be five or six different stories in the travel thing, so they'll come on at different times of the year.

Kimberley: Okay.

Geoff: All of that sort of thing goes on.

Kimberley: Always something new going on with all these people attending things at different places at different times. And you mentioned there's insurance and probably other costs as well. What does it cost to be involved?

Geoff: What it costs the Adelaide Hills, U3A would charge $50 a year, and that entitles you to go to everything. And sometimes because there'll be a break, you might have coffee and biscuits, tea and all that sort of thing. It'll be a gold coin donation if there have to be if you have to have books for doing certain things. Like we had an Italian course that I was doing. You need some exercise books.

Kimberley: Music books for the Ukulele group.

Geoff: Yeah. Music books. Yes. You can certainly buy a lot, but there's so much online that you can download. Lots uh of music. So you've got to pay for your own things there. But really, all of these things are free. So $50 is all your insurance, all of the courses. There's nothing else.

Kimberley: Okay.

Geoff: So it's not much. I mean, it's not at all a cup of coffee a month, roughly. It's not much.

Kimberley: Everyone can afford a coffee a month. Yes. I've got to ask, how does that go if you're hiring a venue, how do you work out?

Geoff: Friendly once this is part of it. So we do have to hire something new, but we're really lucky, like Mount Barker Council. We use the town hall. We don't get charged for that. The CFS in Aldgate let us use their place. So some places we don't pay for, obviously some we have to. So it's a constant thing where the person that organizes the properties we use has to do a lot of horse trading sometimes.

Kimberley: Okay.

Geoff: We try and make it reciprocal. We're using a venue in Hahndorf where we're saying that some of the people who live there can come into our courses as well without necessarily being, they don't have to be members.

Kimberley: Members. Okay. Well, that's good to know. What range of courses or groups and things do you have?

Geoff: I do have a list.

Kimberley: Oh, show me your list.

Geoff: So there's the start of it there.

Kimberley: All right. Oh, my goodness. You've got pages and pages. Let's just pick out a few good things. So we've got mentally, physically and socially. That's obviously something that comes up.

Geoff: Yeah. That's basically what we're helping with the people of our age.

Kimberley: All good things. I think so to be supportive. So we've got book groups, languages, mahjong. And I assume there's going to be a lot of other similar activities to that.

Geoff: Yeah. Book groups. There are a couple more than two of those. Maze. There are two courses in different places.

Kimberley: Writing group, more card games, Ukulele, as you mentioned, literature. I take it that's a reading group rather than a writing group?

Geoff: Yes, there is a… Right. There are writing groups.

Kimberley: As I go through the list, there's more writing groups, family history, circle dance, chicken, wetland walking, music for sharing. What's that one about?

Geoff: Well, that's where people go around someone's house and they take albums.

Kimberley: Cassettes, CDs, music listening party.

Geoff: Just listening.

Kimberley: Yeah, I like it.

Geoff: I did go around there once and I found it quite disappointing because they said, Bring some music you like.

Kimberley: Yeah.

Geoff: And I took this jazz saxophones round and they don't like jazz. I was pretty disappointed.

Kimberley: Well, they wouldn't like me either, because I'd be singing and I'll be music listening for me. And with your fingers in your ears for the rest of them, you got to sing.

Geoff: You have to sing. If you got a voice, everyone's got a voice, you got to sing.

Kimberley: And then it gets onto artistic and creative things. So we've got painting, drawing, card making, mosaics, and then getting out in the world with lunch groups, field trips, events and get togethers tours of the art Gallery, a car rally, scavenger Hunt. I love those. That are a lot of fun.

Geoff: Yeah, we've done one of those. Two of the women organized that and it was great.

Kimberley: There are a lot of work to organize, uh but there's so much fun doing them. You've been on a visit to the Wingfield Recycling Centre.

Geoff: I didn't go with this. There used to be a client of mine, so I didn't want to go there.

Kimberley: Okay. You've had enough of that. And more visits to the Mount Barker men's shed, beekeeping, Kangaroo Island fossil beds, travel, living well with arthritis, and lots of health and safety courses as well, finishing off with maximizing independence. So there's certainly a lot for everybody to choose from, whether you want to get out and about, whether you want to do something creative or something a little more, I guess, educational to suit everybody's interests and needs.

Geoff: Yeah. I mean, the art group we spoke of is really lovely. There are quite a few people that go there now. The lady that runs it, Margaret, is really good. It's not so much teaching because people walk around and advise each other or ask for help, but it's very good. I go there. I mainly just talk, but I enjoy it. It's good fun. It's a very social thing.

Kimberley: Sounds very social.

Geoff: Being in the U3A is quite an eye open because you just get to know a lot of people and you sometimes see people, you'll go to a meeting and you'll see people that you haven't seen for maybe two or three years because you don't do the same courses. But that's a nice thing as well.

Kimberley: It's good you can catch up with them again. What are you enrolled in at the moment?

Geoff: Well, what am I enrolled in? Ukulele, lunch, mindfulness. What I tend to do and everyone does is enroll in far too much. And the great thing about having a computer system now is that you can see what's clashing so often when it was all done on paper.

Kimberley: You get all excited and you sign up for everything. You can't be at Aldgate, Murray Bridge at the same time.

Geoff: No, it's not good. So I'm doing painting and drawing. I'm doing ukulele and song. I was doing Italian, but I've stopped doing that because I'm really good at swearing Italian, but not much health.

Kimberley: Oh, my godmother was good at swearing in Italian and I didn't realize that was what she was saying.

Geoff: Yeah. My grandmother used to have good fun.

Kimberley: Mostly it was gosh, I'm so frustrated with you.

Geoff: So Laratinga Wetlands, too, which we spoke of mental fitness, which on your brain, creating calm in daily life.

Kimberley: Need some of that?

Geoff: Yeah. Games. Games. Games, which is what I run Croquet. I've had a go of that and that's about all I'll come. Lunch with me is another one I do.

Kimberley: And that's all you're doing? How many was that? Like half a dozen?

Geoff: I don't know. Probably, yes.

Kimberley: And are they weekly?

Geoff: No, some are one offs. A couple of them are one offs or two offs. The weekly one is ukulele. Art is fortnightly. Games is fortnightly. Lunch is fortnightly. But of course, lunch is one week lunch, one week games. So it's basically every week.

Kimberley: You're a busy, busy man.

Geoff: I am busy, yes. My wife keeps telling me that.

Kimberley: Hang on. Whose idea was it to be a U3A? Start with it's her fault, obviously.

Geoff: We both do different things, so it's good. It keeps you both active.

Kimberley: It sounds great. And what's your favorite thing you've ever done through U3A?

Geoff: Oh, probably ukulele. I used to play saxophone band in concert bands. I first tried ukulele probably about three years ago, and it was around someone's house. There are probably five or six people there, and I hadn't played one before. I was a failed guitar player. I lived through my kids playing guitar Fuqua Lailey. And I thought, wow, this is really quite good. And I like singing. I can't say that I can sing, but it's good fun.

Kimberley: It's like me. I love singing and everyone around me will tell you that I can't, but that's okay. I'm enthusiastic.

Geoff: Enthusiastic is important.

Kimberley: Yes.

Geoff: And eventually I've sort of taken over the uke group. It's great. We have 2 hours. We have a break in between, but we play for a couple of hours or sing our lungs out. I usually go home with our voice.

Kimberley: Love it.

Geoff: I can sing loud, and that's about my skill level. But we sing a lot of popular songs. We'll do the Kinks, the Beatles, a lot of traditional songs, fairly new songs if we can. So we're all learning to play different chords, and some people are learning teaching themselves fingers playing. But there are other ukulele groups around, so I go to another one occasionally, which is separate from U3A. And some of the other members do as well. So a lot of people are not just in U3A. There are so many things going on in the Adelaide Hills. We're so lucky because Mount Barker are very generous with the town hall. You got the community center, which U3A use quite a lot. There are plenty of things to do, and I must admit, ukulele is the good fun one. For me.

Kimberley: That's your best one.

Geoff: Well, fun. When you say it was a high school level.

Kimberley: That's okay. There's always room for improvement. Got any stories about things that have happened at or through in your time?

Geoff: Well, I guess there are always stories. Some of them you really couldn't repeat.

Kimberley: Give us a nice one, then.

Geoff: Mahjong. Some of the people actually play the game came along with us and showed us how to play the people of the club, and that was really good.

Kimberley: Challenges and achievements. Every organization has them. Would have been U3A’s challenges and achievements recently?

Geoff: Well, the challenges have always been with Covid. In recent times, it's been really difficult. Every place had to have the QR code up on the wall. So whenever we go and we've got to do the code signing, ridiculous, the whole thing. And that's been quite difficult because it's changing all the time. And of course, with 300 odd people, everyone has a different viewpoint whether you should or shouldn't wear masks. Some people don't have vaccinations. So that's always a bit of a challenge for people. But then the next thing we had was really our computer system. We got a program. We looked at a couple of programs. One was a national program that was very expensive, but we found one that was the U3A, and it's designed very much for U3A.

Kimberley: So that manages your enrollments and classes and things?

Geoff: Yeah. So everything is put on there. And it's made it so much easier for those people, as I may have mentioned before, because before that we were getting lots of bits of paper. People fill forms out. They don't necessarily fill them out properly.

Kimberley: They never, ever fill them out properly.

Geoff: And lots of phone calls for those people that were doing uh enrollments, making lots and lots of phone calls back to people, people get angry because they thought they'd done everything properly, all that. But even with this system, some people um we had uh a couple of days at least where some of us help people. So we did one in the community center here, and we did one at the Hearts in Ballgame where we made ourselves available. We took a laptop, and people who couldn't or wouldn't use a computer came in and we did it for them.

Kimberley: Sometimes show them so they could possibly see how it's done and be brave next time.

Geoff: That's right.

Kimberley: But still be supported.

Geoff: Yeah, they were supported here. So we probably signed in maybe 20 people from three.

Kimberley: That's not huge, but it's important to them.

Geoff: Those 20 when you consider the age range up to 94 years of age, some of those people are never going to get really savvy with a computer.

Kimberley: By the time they've learned how to use one, there's a whole new thing out.

Geoff: That's right. It's very much like that. So we expect that. But it does really take a lot of pressure off because let's face it, it's a voluntary thing. People don't really want to go back to their old life of sitting in an office punching a computer.

Kimberley: No, thank you. Not at all.

Geoff: So, yeah, that's been one of uh the challenges. We kitted ourselves out with lots of hand cleaner and cleaning apparatus. I mean, we were washing down chairs, disinfectant all the time, tables and chairs, and you come out with your hands smelling like uh bleach.

Kimberley: This is far too much.

Geoff: And also we had restrictions where we'd always had tea and biscuits that stopped.

Kimberley: You had to stop the tea and biscuits when it's a social thing that's so important.

Geoff: It's really important that you stop. You have a chat. That's very good. So people were encouraged to take water. And now we've come to a stage where one person has to make the tea and coffee and hand biscuits out.

Kimberley: So back to tea and coffee, but no open board where people can help themselves.

Geoff: That's right. Yeah.

Kimberley: We're getting there.

Geoff: We're getting there. It will happen. And things might change very soon. Who knows?

Kimberley: We'll see how it goes. We've talked about U3A, how it got started, what's happening in it now, and it all sounds fantastic, but what does the future hold for it?

Geoff: I think the future will uh actually expand. I think that it's just the sort of thing that everyone is going to want to have a go at. We have issues, I think, with people not hearing about us, but that's fairly common. You'll speak to people and they'll say, what does that mean? What is that? Never heard of it. So getting it out there is hard, but it's word of mouth. And I do think that everybody, at least everybody I know is very keen. Once they're in the U3A, they're very keen. So they tell other people. And I do think we've kept our figures through covert at a pretty similar level. We haven't lost enrollments.

Kimberley: That's amazing.

Geoff: So I consider it to be going on really well.

Kimberley: Yeah. Congratulations on that. Well done. We'd better make sure that everybody has contact details, because I reckon anybody who is listening is going to be very interested in what you are doing. So how can people get in touch?

Geoff: Okay, there are a couple of ways. We use the Hut in Aldgate as our contact points, and you can phone them there on uh can email U3A, and that is u3a.ahills@gmail.com. And you can go to the website, which is www.U3Aadelaidehills.com, but we also have a Facebook site where you can view things we've done and lots of photographs.  

Kimberley: I'll put all of the contact details up with the episode notes, so anybody who didn't have their pen out and was listening will be able to still get in touch. But it's not just Adelaide Hills. How many around South Australia?

Geoff: 20.

Kimberley: So wherever you are in South Australia, or indeed the whole world, you'll probably find U3A somewhere very nearby and some amazing and fun things to do.

Geoff: You certainly will.

Kimberley: Thanks, Geoff, for coming in and having you talk to us. It's been really good to hear about U3A, and I might have to have a chat with you off air about what I could do at U3A.

Geoff: Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Kimberley: That's all for what the Hills this week. Tune in next week for more local stories from the Adelaide Hills on Lofty 88.9 and Lofty.org au at midday on Monday and in your podcast app anytime. What the Hills is produced on Peramangk land in the Adelaide Hills in South Australia. Music is written and produced by Daniel Biggs. Voiceovers by Andrew Challen. What the Hills is produced and Edited By Studio 4. If you have a local story to share, get in touch with us on social media.

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U3A, or the University of the Third Age, sounds like something mysterious when you first hear about it.  But it's really not that mysterious at all.  In fact, it's something that thousands of people do every week.  It's fun and social and a great way to learn and share skills for anyone over 50.

I caught up with Geoff Edwards to hear all about what U3A is doing right here in the Adelaide Hills.

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Voiceover: Welcome to What the Hills. With a lifetime of living here, we are Adelaide Hills locals just like you. That's why what the Hills is your program for the Adelaide Hills. We focus on the stories from the place where you live. And now he's your host, Kimberley Franklin.

Kimberley: What sparks your fire? The Peramangk people have always been a people of fire. We all know of their history of making and sharing fire with their neighbors. After many long years since the disruption of European settlement, the Peramangk are back, proud and strong, growing that fire of their culture and their language right here in the Adelaide Hills. This week, I caught up with Courtney Hebberman, a Peramangk an Ngarrindjeri woman who's doing everything she can to share and grow her culture in the community. Courtney is an amazing person, and we could have chatted for days about all of her interests and her activities to improve the lives of people around her. Here's just a part of our conversation, and I think there'll be many more to come.

Kimberley: On What the Hills today I'm talking to Courtney Hebberman, who is a really, really busy person.  Hi, Courtney. How are you going?

Courtney: Hi, Kimberley. I'm really well, thank you. And thank you very much for inviting me to be on the show today. It's a pleasure to come and have a conversation with you.

Kimberley: It's great to have you here. Now I've got a little bit of an intro to you. It says that you're a Njarrindjeri and Peramangk woman, grew up in the Adelaide Hills. You're a foster parent and mother of six, which is going to keep you busy to start with. But you've also started on the grand ease. You've got one grandson. You're halfway through a law degree, which is on hold at the moment. But you're also a poet, a writer, and working with some different projects and into biocultural ecology and rebuilding a whole language. What do you do in your spare time?

Courtney: Ah, I try to sleep. I've got my dog. Sleep is good. Yeah, I've got a dog. And we like to walk near the waterfall and just around and say hello to birds, meet people in the local community. I try to remain friendly and build good relationships. But, yes, first and foremost, I am, I've always been a writer and a poet, and I feel that my poetry and my writing, it's an expression of my spirit and who I fundamentally am. And as an Aboriginal woman. I have six wonderful children. I also have a grandson who's five, and my mum, Mandy Brown. She lives down in Strathalbyn, and she has a florist shop down there, Desert Rose. So if anyone's ever down there, go and check out Mandy and say Hi. I also currently am working with the Constellation Project. So what that is, is a cross sector, multiple agencies like Red Cross, Mission Australia and a few other places that come together to develop innovative solutions. Sorry, I forgot to mention Price Waterhouse Coopers. They're one of the main ones. We come together nationally to develop innovative solutions around homelessness. And we are targeting a 16 to 24 year old age bracket here on the ground in South Australia. And the team that I'm working with, we are developing what is actually a Systems Navigator. And we've just got research, ethics approval, which is great. So thank you, Selena Tully. You're an amazing woman. And from that, we're looking at a Systems Navigator, essentially, is someone that potentially would help a young person emerging from out of home care or youth justice to navigate the systems out there. Because what we do in our community is if we identify someone that's in need and the systems can be really overwhelming at times, is that you would actually advocate and help that person navigate through the systems, and you would actually identify where the strongest points are, where the help is available, who's going to help that person? So instead of getting the stuff around and that person becoming overwhelmed and having to tell their story over and over again, which can be really traumatic and hard at times, then that person would actually step up and play that role for that young person.

Kimberley: It sounds like such a simple thing to do, but so essential for these young people who are going through a big change in their lives and as you've already said, can be traumatized and not know where to go for help, not know what to do, what's in the system, what they really need is someone to say, okay, here's where you go, here's what you do, this is what you do next, and I'm going to help you through that. Rather than just dump you in the world and say, "There's help out, now go find it."

Courtney: Yeah, definitely. And that's why hopefully we can see the idea come to fruition, because that model could actually be then adapted and used on the ground in any community across Australia.

Kimberley: Really important stuff. But you've been involved in a lot of things over the years, busy in this field for a long time, and you've obviously got a really big interest in it with your family and with all the other things that you do. And you're halfway through a law degree as well. I'm guessing that's a little bit inspired by some of your experiences as well.

Courtney: Yeah. So I have a really strong sense of social justice, and I like to see that people have the correct justice and that they have, I guess, the representation that they deserve. I know some people who are really disenfranchised at times by the legal system, but here, I guess my inspiration came from my grandson. So my grandson was removed under risk of emotional neglect, and it never made compliance for a section of removal. He was actually placed in 14 different homes. He suffered abuse in care. And my uncle was actually sponsored by National Congress to take our case to the Human Rights Commission in Geneva, which is really important because us as Aboriginal people, we have the legislative right to self determination here in Australia and that's not what is happening. And hopefully later on we can actually have a conversation around human rights, international law and self determination because we were successful in securing him back. So he's home in our family now and he's doing really well, but that's not the norm. That is just a one off case. We have a really strong family. We're, I guess, really well educated in the Western system. We've experienced stolen generations with my mum and my uncles and aunties were being forcibly removed from my grandmother. I grew up with a really deep understanding and feeling of trauma and grief and what my grandmother had experienced and what my mother went through. I always say that I was born with my grandmother's pain and that I carried this and that I wasn't going to allow that to happen in our lives and that if I could change things, that it would make things better for the future, but that if I could just stand up and I guess push back, it would make my mum proud and actually kind of heal some of those hurts because my grandmother died at a very young age and, for me, I really feel that her spirit was broken. Like having all your children removed like that, it has a massive intergenerational impact on your life. We still have fear to this day, like, any point of contact that any Aboriginal person has, I think, and I don't purport to speak for everybody else, but it just seems to be common that anyone that has contact with the Department for Child Protection, and even if you don't, like, you still have that fear of having your child removed because for two centuries we've suffered systemic genocide and that has defied international law and it's still happening to this day. And I think the Family Matters Report, the statistics that came out towards the end of last year that there's 81% of Aboriginal children, around 16,000 kids under long term Guardian orders. So they are until 18, they are actually in care now. I don't know exactly what percentage are in Aboriginal homes within their communities, but not all of them are. And that is the forced removal of one race, like the children of one race, to another and at rates greater than we've ever experienced before. Now, I really don't think that is the correct solution. It never has been. Like if you look at the evidence base and the impacts that the stolen generations have had upon our people, it affects everything that you do. Like our identity is the core to who we are as Aboriginal people. And if you sever the identity, like what the government does, like that's legal severance of your identity. And I know in law when I was doing some research at University, I actually came across a figure that really shocked me, that since we've had the Westminster law in place in this country, what is an Aboriginal person? So the definition of, has actually been changed six dozen times. So our identities have been changed over six dozen times by the government. Now, I tell you, I know who I am. I was born with a really strong sense of knowing who I am, where I belong, where my country is from. I teach that to my children, I teach them their language. And I'm proud that my children will know more language than what my mum and grandma did. But to have the government, the state, tell you who you are, to me, that's a form of gaslighting. And we don't need to be told. We don't need to have our identities redefined time and time and time again. And something needs to change.

Kimberley: I think it really does. And it's crazy to think that this removal of children from not just our families, but from their whole cultures is still happening. We all think of Stolen Generation as something that happened in the days of the "Rabbit Proof Fence" movie. And it's something that happened a long time ago and it doesn't happen now. And yet my mum's auntie was adopted. She was Stolen Generation as well, and she never told her own children. They had to find out after she had died. There was so much of that culture was lost from her, but she was lost from her family, from her own culture. It happened in my great auntie's time, but it's still happening now. And as you said, it's happening more and more.

Courtney: Yeah, it definitely is. I've seen multiple families had their children removed and there has to be better solutions. Like, it's a reactive response, it's not a proactive response. And if you look at the New York based system where they don't really go and remove kids, but actually cocoon and work with the families and those models of care actually work way better than if you go in and you're removing the child because what you're doing, that point of contact where you're removing the child from their home, their community, the networks that they know, that's severing their identity, that's creating a whole new trauma in itself. And then within the system, sometimes these traumas, they're not being addressed and they carry that like that's an inherent pain that stays with someone for life for generations to come.

Kimberley: And not knowing, as you said, who you are, or being told that actually who you thought you are, no we're going to change that. We're going to tell you who we want you to be. It's not appropriate, it's not the right thing to do. And it's just so bad for the individuals, but also for the culture and the community. Is there any thought that this is maybe changing on the horizon? Is there any plan for that? Perhaps that New York idea to come to Australia and to be a different way of dealing with things?

Courtney: Yeah, there's always hope, I guess I had the recent 21st forum on the United Nations Permanent Forum on Issues that was held in New York, brought First Nations leaders together from around the world. And it was advocated that States, (the whole of Australia is a "state" in international law) and judicial, actually implement the changes that support and protect nations, people's, land and lives. And that's what we really need here in South Australia, on the ground across all States and territories. We need the government to actually start to put its money where its mouth is and actually get behind us and our self determination, because until we have that and the core of our identity, that's the core of the issue here is that we don't have self determination. And I guess the recommendations that First Nations people be given further opportunities to participate in the actual United Nations General Assembly processes, what a mouthful! Which would actually elevate that forum to a level on par with the member States. So I guess there's always hope. And if enough people around Australia get behind and start pressuring and you've seen with protests, with marches, thousands and thousands of people now are aware of these issues. They're aware of the rights that we have as First Nations people. And in my lifetime, I've witnessed that massive change. I see our ancestors and the people that came before us that tirelessly worked towards these changes that are still rolling today. And that's what we can continue. And we can set that in place for our children, our grandchildren and our great grandchildren. Because the hope is that eventually we can decolonize these processes and all aspects of our lives so that we have full self determination. We can have our own state, our own laws, as we've done for hundreds of thousands of years.

Kimberley: Self determination has to be the way to go with a culture that is, well, it's a lot of cultures, but with a culture that can be so strong and has so much to do with family and with people working together, why throw that away? And why bury that when it can be such a wonderful thing? It really has to come down to, as you said, self determination, being able to make those rules, being able to be in control of what's happening, whether it's a single child who might be seen to be at risk or needing help, or whether it's a whole community that wants to decide what they do and how they do it.

Courtney: This is the first time the UN expert mechanism on the rights of Indigenous people is actually coming to Australia. So that in itself is actually really significant. And it's really good to see they are actually invited here by the normal people because of the high rates of child removals. So to have them actually come here it shows that on an international level, our voices are actually being heard, which is really good. It's something that's never happened in our lifetimes. And I'm quite proud that I can tell my children, like, this is what's happening. And I do show my children all the time, like, they're wholly aware of the systems that are in place. They're wholly aware of what um happened to Grandma when Grandma was removed because they had actually witnessed that with their nephew. And they were extremely distressed by that and so forth to see actually things change on an international level. Hopefully one day we'll see those changes start to happen here on the ground, within the judicial systems and within workplace policies as well, so that we do have those rights to self determination and live as we want.

Kimberley: Part of that is rebuilding language and culture that might have been lost or been put in the background over the last decades. And that's something that you've been really heavily involved in recently.

Courtney: Yeah, definitely. So I'm a huge lover of linguistics. Being a writer as I am, I had the opportunity to actually go and study Cert three in an endangered language. So Ngarrindjeri is my own language. We did have Certificate IV, which actually is the teaching component. We now have multiple dictionaries, which I helped contribute to. I've written prose and text and translated songs into my own language, sung it. I'm really proud to say that as a Ngarrindjeri person, that we have that language there now, and that my children, they'll be speaking that. I was going in and teaching it at schools for a bit there because my children didn't want to learn Greek. So I was like, okay, I'll come in and do a little bit of language. It's so amazing to see how quickly the children speak it up and how fluently they can speak it. They can identify, like, multiple different body parts. They can count and they can sing. But when we were doing the course, what really was so moving and significant to me was actually witnessing their elders learning and speaking their own language for the first time. Like, it actually brought tears to my eyes. And I really wish that my grandmother, as a Ngarrindjeri Peramangk woman, that she was here to be able to experience that, because my mother, she never had our own language growing up. She didn't have that privilege. But my mum was amazing. She actually developed our own language. So we had this language that mum had made up and all these different words, and we would speak it to each other and sing to each other, and people would be like, what are you talking about? And we're like, we just weren't aware that people didn't know these words. We just thought it was normal.

Kimberley: It's just how you talk.

Courtney: Yeah, that's just how you talk from that. We as Peramangk, we have around 140 words that were documented. And from that there's actually certain combinations of vowels. If you have those combinations in linguistics, you can actually wake what is a language. So the language, when it's not being fluently spoken among the community, is actually called sleeping. So one of my goals in my life is to actually awake my language because to have that language woken and to be spoken and shared again amongst the community would be like the gold that is the absolute epitome. And it's central to our identities as Peramangk people, to be able to have our language and to be able to speak and pass that knowledge down onto our children because that forms part of that biocultural ecology, and it's central to who we are, like everything we do. And if you go throughout the Hills, there's still many place names that have Peramangk names. I've been working on renaming of places, working with community centers, and that around renaming different structural sites, places throughout the Hills, and identifying and strengthening those areas so that I kind of view it like you have little spots around the Hills that are really important and really special. And if you just strengthen those dots or those places, those meeting places as a woman, and then you can go from those meeting places to meeting places and you can actually start to see where it's being connected and the rapport is being built. And what you're actually doing is rebuilding a whole network and telling stories. You know, you're strengthening the stories on the land. And to me, as a storyteller, it's really important that I see that being strengthened. But that's how I kind of envision it in my head. I'm not artistic. I can't paint or draw anything like that, but I can paint the picture with words in my mind, and that's how I envision it and also with song. So my children's father, he's from the Northern Territory. He is an Eastern Aranda and Gurindji man. He's also an Aboriginal musician of 40 years. He's pretty good. When I met him, he was just a drummer. He couldn't sing. He didn't really like to speak, was really quiet. And I encouraged him. I was like, pick up a guitar. And he practiced and learned and used to sing in the bathroom and would serenade me down the hallway. And I was just like, oh, my God, what the hell? But that's where we both go out sometimes now, and we'll do workshops with the kids. And in those stories that are written into the song, it's about this land and how we can all come together as one and care for the land and listen to the land, which is really important. I teach that the land is the first relationship that we have with anyone. The land is our mother, and the land gives us everything that we need. She teaches us. We go out there looking at the trees and everything around, and it's like the original Internet. It's the Wood Wide Web, I call it. And I'm like, yeah, you can plug in and you can download really easily here. You've got all your networks and it's like a book. It's like the living library. And that's what I call it. It's the living library, literally. And if you're just taking it's like if you go to the library, you borrow a book and you might rip some pages out of that book because you like them, and then you return that book, but some of that knowledge is actually gone. It's missing. And that's kind of, I guess what's happened to us as Peramangk people, like, in the last two centuries, with occupation and ethnic cleansing, we've had massive amounts of chapters and pages torn out of our books. But the book itself, the cover and the core is still there. We are still here as Peramangk people. We are still alive and we're still strong and we're still thriving. And I'm continuing to write those stories. We're filling in those blank pages. So that the book. Even though some of those pages are missing, you can kind of look at that missing chapter and not gloss over it. But I guess you could fill in the blanks from other sources. What do they call them in law? Extrinsic materials or something.

Kimberley: Um yeah, sounds about right.

Courtney: Yeah. And that's what I kind of teach the kids. And it's also about caring and looking after the land. And if you keep taking pages and pages, then there's none left to share. And those pages, even though they might be missing and they might be in someone's home or they're not there to share. But I like to go and teach the kids, and they really love it. You know, I have, like, all these really old possum skins. And I actually worked on the Just Add Water Festival. So that was in 2012, and that was a four year festival that ran with the Fleurieu Peninsula. And for that, I was contracted to do an arts workshop. And I was like, oh, well, what am I going to do? And I like to kind of be original. And I thought, what's something that hasn't been done? So I went into all of the literature that I have on Peramangk, and I've got a lot. And I sort of asked around. I looked and observed, and I thought, what are other people doing? And at that time, I had a really amazing arts mentor, Betty Sumner. And I talked to who's an Aboriginal elder. So I got talking to her and um nobody. What I found is that we used to actually make possum skin drums, and these were actually a really special tool. They were used in dance and ceremony, but they're also used commonly. Like, you would use them as almost a sleeping pillow. And I was like, I want to recreate these awesome skin drums because it hadn't actually been done for 170 years at that point. So about 180 now. And so what we did, we actually recreated we went and spoke with Ngarrindjeri Elders and worked around recreating these. And we got some really old skin. They were beautiful. And you bind a reed circle, and then what you would actually do is traditionally you would stuff it with some kind of feathers, and then you would use Kangaroo sinew. The fur side is on the outside, so the skin is actually on the interior. And I thought, how is this going to work? Like, how is this going to create a drum sound? But when you actually pull that tight and you've got it bound, it actually makes a really deep sound. And so that's what I did. We woke up the possum skin drums. Um and I was really proud of doing that because now down at Raukkan, they're teaching the kids, and I know some of the old ladies down there were making some of the drums with the kids. So I've got skins here that I take with me. I let the kids touch and feel them. And we talk about the possum skin drums. And I love listening to their stories about how they've got possums in their roof. Yeah. Letting them feel the possum skins and letting them tell their stories, too, about the possums. And we talk about, like, possum hideaway. So possums are really territorial. So I teach them, like, possums have got their own networks and they've got their own little highways. And if you watch, like, you'll see them in their little areas and where they like to go. And we had possums once at my old house, and they were really... we had chickens, so I had chickens from the local kindy. And the chickens used to imitate the possums, so they didn't actually crow. They used to make this growling noise, like the possum. And it was really disturbing. I'm like, you guys are chickens. Learn to talk like a chicken. Yes.

Kimberley: It seems like everything that you can do in this Wood Wide web that you spoke about earlier, everything is a teaching opportunity and a chance to talk about the environment, talk about nature, talk about culture, talk about how we make a drum, and then how do we use that drum? And then what stories can we tell using that? And it's a big cycle. Is this what you're trying to do with rebuilding the whole Peramangk language?

Courtney: Yeah, most definitely, because I think it's an art, They talk about linguistics is under Art at universities and stuff like that. And art is central to everything that we do and our identities, our original and especially Peramangk people. But it's also about using what's around us. So using the drums, using the reeds, using the feathers, and actually turning that into art and into song, and that's actually really cathartic. It's the form of medicine, and that's what frequency is as well. Like, that's quantum physics. And I talked to the kids about that a lot. So under that biocultural, I guess that umbrella term that encompasses all that we inherently know and teach. It's paramount. It's the knowledge, the practices and the biological resources from the plants, especially medicinally. I talk a lot about share knowledge um about the medicinal use of the plants. And I think in the Hills, we've got about actually different dozen species of Wattle throughout the Hills.

Kimberley: Just Wattle. And then there's all the other types of plants.

Courtney: Yeah, we have such a wide variety throughout the Hills. It's one of those places, I think, on Earth that's really special. We have such good food industries. And I know that there's a guy that's working with some of the wineries to develop wines. It's really good to be able to share that. And it's always good to be able to build rapport and just see that people living on Peramangk country are actually healthy, because then that tells you that the land is healthy as well. And that's really important to us as well. Like, the land is our mother. And if your mother is sick, then she's not happy. And then you've got to look at why she's not happy and look at ways of increasing her happiness so that you, in turn, are happy as well. There's a certain limit to the extent of what we share. There's a little bit in there about customary law, our values and our belief systems. Not all of it is appropriate to share with the wider public. There's some knowledge that is essentially really sacred and that you wouldn't share. But one of the main goals is to wake up that Peramangk language, because we need our language. Our language to us is central to everything that we do. It's like with my mum, like, if we didn't have that language, that communication, that's the main link of our Wood Wide Web. We've got the trees. And if we didn't have the language, what are we without language?

Kimberley: It's the center of everything, I think. It's how we communicate. Yeah, definitely from that comes everything else. Now, you mentioned this magic number. 140 words is what we have at the moment. Languages are made up of thousands and thousands of words. What do you do to try and rebuild something that has, as far as we can tell at the moment, it's been lost. And when you do rebuild it, is it going to be the same paramount language that was spoken 200 years ago, or will it be a 2.0, a new version of that language?

Courtney: That's probably something that I'd probably have to ask around about. Um but I think that if you have from what I understand, that if you have, like, linguistically, if you have core components and pronunciations and certain structures which we do have, you can actually rebuild the whole language around that because, as you would know, like, language is, I guess, limited. Like, you can always create new words, but you're not creating new letters. So those core pronunciations, those core letters that are needed, they're actually present. And that's my aim. Even with Ngarrindjeri language, like, when we're doing that, there might not be a language, say, to describe a computer, but then you would look at the words that have already been created in conjunction with community. So elders, past, present and emerging, and you would actually then be able to actually create a whole new word, So the language itself isn't stagnant when you wake it up, it is a fluid thing. It's always evolving. It's not going to be something that's just set in stone.

Kimberley: Do you think that the rebuilt language will not just be Peramangk but will be related to the original Peramangk language that... I guess all languages grow and change over time, but 200 years is a very short time for a language to change so dramatically, as I personally think that it might through this rebuilding process with so much of it having been lost.

Courtney: I think bring it back to you've got the core components there that were actually recorded.

Kimberley: They're essential.

Courtney: Yeah, they are the essential and the fundamental building blocks. So from those building blocks, you could rebuild. And it may be that because we're in the modern world, we do create whole new words, but that brings it back to language itself isn't stagnant. I think people look at language and there's a dictionary and the words are just there, set in stone. But even if you look at That doesn't happen. Yes, it doesn't happen. Language is always moving. It's evolving like it's shifting. And that's like us as Aboriginal people. We're not a stagnant people. I think people always look at us in the historical sense and have this, you know what's the word like. They have this concept um that we're set in stone and we must look a certain way or we must act a certain way. But we're in 2022, we're constantly evolving people, but at the same time, we're maintaining those core principles and values that actually are building blocks. What creates us and what builds uh us as Aboriginal people. Like, my spirit doesn't change. My body may change around me. Like it ages, it's sore, it aches. My mouth still works. But in here, in my miwi. So the miwi is the state of your emotions here. Like, my core is always the same. And even after my body is long gone, my core, my miwi my spirit, that's still going to be the same.

Kimberley: We see often you see on the TV "Modern Aboriginal Person" going to University, becoming a lawyer, having this modern 21st century Western life, and gosh, isn't it exciting? But everybody has moved from what our culture was thousands of years ago to what it is now. Why should it be any different for people who are Aboriginal? You keep your culture and you have that culture in today's world. I don't know why people keep getting surprised about this. It just makes sense. I think to me,

Courtney: I think it's like, you know, inherently, I think there's this really deep underlying racial bias. For so long, it was like Aboriginal and Aboriginal people were like, associated us with something that was untouchable, like something could not be seen. The state. That's how they created that whole environment. But now to me, I look at it and I mean, I can't say it's become a trend, but many more people are aware. They're aware of these issues. They're aware of what's happened, they're aware of what's happening, and they're looking at us collectively and holistically and what's happening to us in the future and actually becoming really more aware of how important it is to maintain and strengthen the fundamental aspects of what we are as Aboriginal people before it becomes lost. Once you lose things, like when those pages from the book, when they're gone, it's gone forever. And if you lose the principles of Aboriginal people and I'm not talking as Aboriginal people as a whole. I'm just talking from my own experience and what I feel in my spirit. Once that's gone, you lose the ways of caring for the land. And once you destroy your home and you destroy the very foundations and the pillars of your home, your home is going to crumble. And to me, that just seems like the antithesis of survival. Why would you destroy your own home? Why would you systemically set out to remove, by brick the foundations of your own home? I guess that's how I look at it. It's really important that we start to strengthen and maintain what exists, especially as paramount people. And that's why we're always teaching our children who they are, where they're from, like where we're going. I take my youngest child, Ruby. She comes with me to some of the workshops that I do. And even though she's just sitting there, she may not actively be engaging, but at the same time, she's still learning, right?

Kimberley: Yeah, she's absorbing what goes on.

Courtney: Yes, she is 100% absorbing. And it was always like my mum would take us everywhere with her, and I was sort of "boring". And at the same time, now I get what she was doing. And so I do it with my kids, even though sometimes they stress me out as all kids do, but they're still learning, they're still absorbing, and they'll be seeing that. Ruby is really good. She's been up on the stage and sings and dances with her dad, and she's on TikTok, and that a lot. I do it with all the kids, especially the boys. I get them to come along and I'm like, one day you'll be doing this, and it's really important that we strengthen our foundations.

Kimberley: Do you see that strengthening and growth of culture happening now and into the future? Does it look like a positive future?

Courtney: Yeah, it does. I always try to stay optimistic. If I come across a challenge where maybe racial biases that exist within the processes of workplaces, whether they be NGOs or government, you can always advocate to bring change. They have processes where you can change that. That actually better support Aboriginal people. And I do just that. If I don't feel that it's a safe environment for any person of color, I will really strongly advocate in line with Westminster law as well, that they change those processes to better support people of color, because at the end of the day, everyone needs to feel included and welcomed and not be discriminated against. So, yeah, I do feel really optimistic about the future. In my lifetime, I have gone from seeing absolutely no cultural events, cultural awareness, language or anything, any relationships in the community with Peramangk at all to now. You've got people reaching out. We always have people contacting our Peramangk Council page. We're actively being contracted to go out to do work, to share knowledge, to teach. But it's also the willingness, Kimberley, of people to learn. And it's also about people listening. You can be sit there and talk and talk till the cows come home. But if people don't listen, then there's no point in talking. But I find that people really listen and they take on board what you're actually saying. And most important, it's about teaching the children, and the children do this. They ask a lot of questions. And it's not about painting a rose colored picture of what happened in the past or what's happening now in the present. But it's about staying hopeful and optimistic and actually working towards that in the future so that we can emerge stronger than we've ever been.

Kimberley: I think that comes from both sides as well. I know that in the local area, I like going on these local history walks around the community and stuff like that. And I can remember not even ten years ago when they said, "Welcome to the area. We're about to start our local history walk around town. Now, of course, you'll know that before white settlement, Peramangk people lived here. They all died." And that was what we were being told at the start of the history walk less than ten years ago. And now well, here I am talking to one, and you're not dead. You're clearly alive, truly alive, and you're not the only Peramangk person in the world. So that learning is happening throughout the community, I think. And we're finally realizing that the very simplistic history that we had been taught up until now wasn't the full story. It wasn't right. And maybe there is more that we can learn about survival and about culture and about those important things that we were originally told. "They all died out." No, they went. They survived. They kept their culture as this little glowing ember, and it's coming back to life again. And it's an important part of the wider culture of the whole community, finally.

Courtney: And that little part, I like it when you say that little fire, because that fire is so important. But that's what I say. Like, we're a fire people, and the heart of our country, like Brukunga or Barkunga pyrite, that's fire. And that is what inherently we are like, we're a fire people, and we're still here very much alive. And when I teach the children.

Voiceover:

Courtney: We did three weeks at Stirling each primary, and I actually made, like, little smoking sticks with the kids, with native plants. So I go out and I gather the plants and the materials, and then I let the kids take them home and we talk about what they are and how smoke itself actually has antimicrobial properties. And what those kids can then do is actually take those home. And it's really significant that they can light those at home with their families, and they're actually cleansing the air around them. And to me that's, like, children are always inherently connected to the spirit. It doesn't matter what race they come from, I feel. And they're so insightful kids, and they know. They know that by lighting it's cleansing the air around them. And I tell them, you can talk to the land, you can talk to the plants, the trees, the birds, the animals around you, and you can build your own little connection, and you can listen to the Earth. You can listen to the mother and having them light those little fires. I was like, yeah, man, there's going to be hundreds of little fires dotted all throughout the Hills. Little fire smokes just a little bit. And I know that the Earth, my mother, she's listening. She'll smell that. She'll sense that. And that in itself is really cathartic. That's really what I can actually give to the children and that the children can actually give back as well. But they'll carry that. And then I'll probably choose their own children about that, hopefully one day. And it was really important. It was a huge turning point for me, teaching that amount of kids. I was like, really overwhelmed. But I was like, wow, I'm going to go in and do it. And they loved it and had this huge, big old tree that we were talking under. And I got showing them about the little pieces of moss and the fungus and how all these pieces form part of the Wood Wide Web and the original Internet. And you guys can talk to the tree when the tree's sick, other trees will send sugar to him. And they're like, oh, my God! Really? Wow! And get them singing and dancing and stomping, and they've got the clap sticks there going. And they love it, their little voices singing. And some of them are like, yeah, my heart is racing. And I'm like, yeah, that's because you're excited. And I'm like, the land around you, She can sense that. She can feel. And I'm like this is a really happy tree. And I'd point out that the tree is really happy because all the kids are around because they do. They have such an amazing energy. So I kind of had for years not done anything culturally. I pursued my law degree and it consumed a lot of my time. And then it all sort of came to a grinding halt at the end of December 2019. And then from there, I was forced into taking a break, then Covid hit. And I tried to go back for a bit, but um my body wasn't coping with that kind of level of stress at that time because it is really stressful studying a law degree. And out of that, this year, I did a speech for International Women's Day about breaking the bias, which was the theme. And up at Lot 100 in Hills here. And I spoke to those people. I thought, oh, my God, what am I going to talk about? And I hadn't written anything. And it really just was I sat on the toilet and then boom, five minutes. I just poured all this stuff out that I'd been holding in.

Kimberley: Where all the best thinking is done.

Courtney: Yeah. And I got up there and I just spoke it and it was really like the spirit was there. I felt it so strongly. It was such a beautiful venue. And I just kind of went into this zone and it was all kind of like this white mist around me. And I just thought, you know what? I'm just going to speak my truth. So I did. I got up there and I said, it's International Women's Day, but the bias is not breaking for us as Aboriginal women. In the last few years, there's been consecutive numbers of Aboriginal women murdered by white men. And the investigative processes of SAPOL have failed those women. The families haven't been listened to. And the very common knowledge that there is deep racial bias that exists within those systems is what led to the failure in the investigative processes of my own daughter's death. And so this week I start working with the Advertiser Gemma. The editor for the Advertiser, she was at that speech and she got in contact with me not even 24 or 48 hours later. And I actually was really blown away. We prayed for a long time for justice and for the truth to be heard and our voices. And I thought, if I go and say this speech today, even if one voice hears it, that's enough. And even if nothing, they take that away from them and they implement change in their own life and practices. That's enough. And Gemma was there. And yes, she contacted me. And next minute we've got a team that we're going to start recording and actually releasing from July these podcasts around the traumatic experiences of Aboriginal people and their families with SAPOL because it's just in 2022. It's really not cool that it's still happening. It really has to stop. And just to have your trauma compounded further and further and further again, that in itself, to me, that's criminal. It really is. And to not have these families listen, to not have their voices listened to when we have our own precious like we have customary law for a reason that we've had for thousands and thousands of years. And to have white law stand over you and tell you that what you're feeling and what you're knowing as a whole community as an immediate and as an immediate family and your kinship networks are all echoing the same am saying. And to have white systems stand over you and tell you that you're wrong when you know that you're not like it's gaslighting. And it's an absolute failure of justice on all levels. There's no spiritual.

Kimberley: It's just a huge failure to recognize those thousands of years of history of how things have been done, and they've worked really well. So why would you not recognize that and include that in what we're doing now?

Courtney: They really do need to decolonize legal practices for Aboriginal people. Mhm no time like the present. And there are some amazing people at Adelaide Law School. They are so supportive. Margaret Castle, especially from there. Like, she's been incredible. And what she said is that even if he didn't directly kill her, like, he's still responsible for her death. And that is what I see with the other families. They are um directly responsible for the deaths of these women. And nobody is being held to account, which is really horrible, because then you sit with this injustice and it's uh an uneasiness of your spirit. And I've wrote a lot of poetry about it. I've performed a lot about it. And that's how I guess I get my it's a form of healing. My spoken word is my art, but it's also like a political I weaponize the English language. I call it literally. The word is my sword. I go there and I swear, and I say, this is how it is. And people will come up to me and they're like, oh, my God, that was really moving. And they're crying. And I'm like that's your spirit being moved, because any emotions that are triggered that is telling you that there needs to be action. And I think for anything, it should be action. You need to have emotion as your driving force. It needs to be behind you driving it and being like, hey, this is a problem. Look here, address it. And that's your spirit telling you that's right or wrong way, you got to do what is right.

Kimberley: Okay, well, let's talk about Reconciliation Week. It's every year at this time. What's special about Reconciliation Week this year?

Courtney: Oh, okay. So this week I'm really happy to be coming up to the Hills to work. One of my favorite centers in the Hills is actually the Aldgate train station, because long before it was a community center. My uncle, my mum's brother, he used to live in the train station with a guy named Wombat.

Voiceover: Wow.

Courtney: Yeah. And I love going there to the train station. They had these little cubby houses in there. And it's so different now, like the Hills. But back then there was like all these really cool little pockets and different people and really eccentric and yes, my mum's brother, he used to live in the train station and my mum had a shop like a supply shop in Allgate. But this year on the first of June, I will be going with James and we will actually be running a traditional foods workshop. So we'll actually be cooking traditional foods there. James will be doing some songs on acoustic guitar. And I'll actually be doing just some networking, meeting people and doing a little bit of talk and sharing some of my knowledge. On June the 15th, from 04:00 p.m. To 05:00 p.m., there's actually a specific native plant workshops that I will be delivering. So I use a few different plants and I talk about the use of the medicinal uses of them, also their broader applications, how we would use them as Peramangk people. So yeah, that's coming up at the Hut Center in August. And I'd like to give a shout out from Courtney to Courtney there because Courtney is absolutely amazing and she has facilitated this. So yeah, if people are interested, please come down and you can meet me and you can meet James and have a listen to some music uh and eat some of the foods that we cook because we actually love to party. So we have always held large gatherings. And James being from the territory and especially Gurundji and Aranda, him being a male, he loves to Cook. That's his role. So he cooks amazingly. So if you want to come and try his cooking, please feel free. At Clover, I think it is. So I'll be running native plant workshops there. That's an architectural and landscape design business. So over two weeks I'll be doing some native plant workshops there also with Mount Barker High. I'm going back to visit again. I'll be up there talking about native plants and just some biocultural ecology to the whole school. And I'm like, wow, yeah, great. I got to meet all the kids and I'm really looking forward to that. I'm so happy. That'd be really good. So there's a lot coming up and I'm really looking forward to it.

Kimberley: It sounds fantastic. I'm going to have to get online and book for all of those things. Now. Where else can we find out more about what you're doing?

Courtney: Generally, I'm just word of mouth and what I actually do now, though, I've done up my own bio, so I have bio and I've done up like a price schedule, I guess. And I've actually been talking to Barossa Tourism up in the Barossa Valley about actually developing some cultural heritage tours up there because there's nothing like that at the present time. So if you want to get in contact with me, you could probably just send a message to the Peramangk Council page [on Facebook] and someone we'll get back to you within a reasonable time frame.

Kimberley: Now I know that we are running out of time for the interview and the battery on your phone is about to go flat so it's probably about time for us to wrap this up. We haven't even touched the surface of such a huge topic. But it's been fantastic hearing from you and hearing a little bit about what's happening and why it's so important. I've got a note here that I have written, that's something I really wanted to say to you and that is "Just keep lighting those fires. Keep those little embers going. I think it's so important."

Courtney: The little embers. I love that. Kimberley. Thank you so much and thank you for inviting me. It's been such a pleasure and this conversation and just being able to share with you. I really appreciate it.

Kimberley: I think we could talk for days but that's it for today. Thank you so much for talking to us on What the Hills and I'm looking forward to getting along maybe to the Hut to meet you and to get involved in the food and the music and everything else.

Courtney: Looking forward to it.

Kimberley: That's all for what the Hills this week.

Kimberley: Tune in next week for more local stories from the Adelaide Hills on Lofty 88.9 and Lofty.org au at midday on Monday and in your podcast app anytime. What the Hills is produced on Peramangk land in the Adelaide Hills in South Australia. Music is written and produced by by Daniel Biggs. Voiceovers by Andrew Challen. What The Hills is produced and edited by Studio 4 Do you have a local story to share? Get in touch with us on social media.

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The Peramangk people have always been a people of fire.  We all know of their history of making and sharing fire with their neighbours. 

After many long years since the disruption of European settlement the Peramangk are back, proud and strong, growing that fire of their culture and their language right here in the Adelaide Hills.

This week I caught up with Courtney Hebberman, a Peramangk and Ngarrindjeri woman, who is doing everything she can to share and grow her culture in the community.

Courtney is an amazing person, and we could have chatted for days about all of her interests and her activities to improve the lives of the people around her.  Here is just a bit of our conversation.  I think there will be many more to come.

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This week's guest is United Australia Party candidate Samantha McGrail.

Samantha decided last year that the best thing she could do to stand up for what she believes in is to represent the party which most closely aligns to her views.  Having never been involved in politics before, it's been a very steep learning curve for her to get to this point.  Samantha is undeterred, however, and is looking toward the election with great determination.

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We have a special Mother's Day guest for you this week. I'm talking to Lisa Yates from the Mount Barker Mum's Group on Facebook.

We talk about the very beginning of the group, how it's grown over the years, and what it offers to the parents of the Mount Barker district - and much further afield. The group has had a big impact on its members, with support and information being offered on all sorts of topics from nappy rash to surviving the teenage years. So much of an impact that it was recognised in the 2022 Australia Day Awards.

And I'd like to say Happy Mother's Day to all the Mums listening, including my own Mum. Have a fantastic day.

Voicover: Welcome to what the Hills with a lifetime of living here. We are Adelaide Hills locals just like you. That's why What the Hills is your program for the Adelaide Hills. We focus on the stories from the place where you live. And now here's your host, Kimberley Franklin.

Kimberley: Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of What The Hills?! It's Mother's Day, so we have a special Mother's Day guest for you this week. I'm talking to Lisa Yates from the Mount Barker Mums Group. On Facebook. We talk about the very beginning of the group, how it's grown over the years, and what it offers to the parents of the Mount Barker district and much further afield, today, The group has had a big impact on its members, with support and information being offered on all sorts of topics, from nappy rash to surviving the teenage years. So much of an impact, in fact, that it was recognized in the 2022 Australia Day Awards. And I'd like to say happy Mother's Day to all the mums listening, including my own mum. Have a fantastic day.

Kimberley: Today on What The Hills, I'm talking to Lisa from the Mount Barker Mums Group. Hi, Lisa.

Lisa: Hello.

Kimberley: How are you going?

Lisa: Good, thank you.

Kimberley: Great. Before we get started, maybe you should tell us a little bit about yourself.

Lisa: I've just turned 42. I've been in the Hills for 40 years.

Kimberley: 40 years. Wow.

Lisa: I grew up locally, too. My husband grew up in Wistow. So we're very much ingrained in the Hills within the Hills in the community.

Kimberley: Okay. So very much locals.

Lisa: Yes.

Kimberley: And you like living here?

Lisa: Yes, we do. Yeah. This is home. It always has been. We left for about four years, but we came back.

Kimberley: I think everybody comes back.

Lisa: Well there's nowhere else to go for us.

Kimberley: That's right. Now we need to talk today about the Mount Barker Mums Group. What is the Mount Barker Mums Group? Apart from the obvious.

Lisa: Yeah. So basically we're on Facebook and we're on Instagram now, but only um on Instagram just for the purpose of advertising local businesses. We had a lot of people wanting to come through us to advertise, and we sort of thought a separate space for them would be better. But the Facebook group has been a long process, but it's turned into a beautiful little community support group. And now it's being recognized, which is brilliant. Lovely.

Kimberley: So it's a Facebook group.

Lisa: It is a Facebook group. Yeah.

Kimberley: For mums in Mount Barker for parents. Parents. Now, that was my next question. Who are the members?

Lisa: So we're mainly mums and the title is Mount Barker Mums Group. But we do have some dads that have infiltrated

Kimberley: well, they do some of the work sometimes

Lisa: They do. But the dads that we do have on there are brilliant. And they don't, I guess, inject themselves too much into conversation. They more sort of just watch those are difficult conversations. They sometimes put their words in. But we're mainly mums.

Kimberley: And is it just in the township of Mount Barker, or how far afield do you go?

Lisa: We've got people actually members from all over the world.

Kimberley: All over the world.

Lisa: Yeah.

Kimberley: How does that happen?

Lisa: I know. How does it happen? We actually have had members just move away and it's that simple. They've just moved interstate or overseas and they've just stayed a part of the community because they love it so much. When you apply to become a member, we have got just information saying that we're in Mount Barker in South Australia, because obviously there's a Mount Barker in WA as well. And are you from the general area? Because there are a lot of other mums groups that we sort of don't want to take away from either. Like there's a Strath mums group that is apparently a really good source for the Fleurieu. Oh, there's also a Nairne parenting page, which is really good for that area as well. So we sort of just say you're from the area where you're from, but all through the Hills. I think 80% of our members are through the Hills, and there's that 20% that are sort of in the city or overseas or moved away temporarily. Yeah, that's right.

Kimberley: So how did the group get started?

Lisa: I started it back in 2013.

Kimberley: That long ago.

Lisa: Yeah.

Kimberley: You're coming up to your 10th.

Lisa: I know. Yeah. So it was June, I think, 2013. My nine year old was four months old when I started it. And it was back when Facebook, buy, swap, sell groups were quite big in the Hills.

Kimberley: They were.

Lisa: Yeah, they were quite popular. So there was a baby and kids page, which I think is still going now. And I noticed that a lot of the mums were asking sort of just generalized questions like what nappies do people buy? And that sort of stuff. And I was sort of within that sort of bubble of motherhood as well. Just being at home with the baby and not really having much social life.

Kimberley: It can be limiting.

Lisa: Yeah. And I missed out on my CAFHS group because she was um my second, so I wasn't able to go to a CAFHS group. So I did miss that sort of village of being a mum. And with my first, I was a young mum. With my second, I wasn't. So I was a bit more confident. So I just asked a question on that page, does anyone want to hang out? Let's meet up for a coffee and actually have some FaceTime. And there was quite a large response on that page. So someone said, you should probably create a group, and that's exactly where it came from. So I just started a group and it pretty much grew overnight. We grew really quickly. I think within the first two months it was over 1000 members. Like, it grew really, really quickly. So I chucked it on secret for a little while because it just got too big and I couldn't find anyone to help me run it. There was a few mums that sort of put the hand up, but it was taking up a lot of time.

Kimberley: It does. The bigger it gets, the more admin power you need.

Lisa: So we actually run nine admin now.

Kimberley: Wow.

Lisa: For four and a half or almost actually 5000 members we've got now, it doesn't sound a lot compared to other local pages because I know they're almost around 20,000, but we also have I think it's about 48 we've got now, but four and a half um thousand of those members are interactive.

Kimberley: Okay.

Lisa: So they're all really present, whereas with other local groups they probably have run at about 60% active. So while they have the members, they don't have the interaction or the comments. I think I looked at January stats and in the space of um 28 days, we had something like 600 posts and almost 7000 comments. And we're just mums. This isn't our job. It's our volunteered hours. So we obviously can't monitor every single comment. That would just be ridiculous to expect us to monitor every single comment that comes through. So we do rely a lot on the mums to sort of regulate themselves or kind of flag things and go, hey, this isn't right. Look, over the years, it actually rarely happens. Now. I think we've sort of grown a culture that the mums kind of know what spaces they can sort of say things and what's a bit too far. We keep to the boundaries of this is our boundaries. We can't sort of go anywhere else.

Kimberley: No, that's fair enough, too. You've got enough to talk about. So the journey for the group must have been an interesting one for you. You started when your daughter was four months old. She's nine now.

Lisa: Yes.

Kimberley: How has it grown and how has it been part of your life as it's grown and changed?

Lisa: Yeah. So personally, I've met some just phenomenal women through our group, and they're people that I wouldn't have probably been friends with any other way but through the group. And that happened for me really early on. And I've actually still got some very close friends that we've helped raise each other's kids, and that was exactly what I wanted out of the group. But I also wanted that for other people as well. So very early on. and now I love it when people make posts and say, let's meet up or let's create our own little mother's group of 5, 10, 200, because it's those little groups that really do give you that village feel that you've got a group of friends that you can move about in. And that's really special. And at the core of it, I think that's all I really wanted for the group creating it was just to see those little friendship groups pop up. Amazing. That's why I put in hours and that's why I've put in my daughter's whole life. Just give me a second, Mommy's just got to check her messages, things like that. Mummy is just helping um another mummy because I do get um a lot of mums messaging, me saying, what do I do in this situation? Or what do I do in that situation or Help! This has just happened to me. Can I ask this question? There is a lot of contact with the mums and it does come with a sacrifice. I've had to put things off because of the group. I've had to miss out on things because of the group. And that's what you do.

Kimberley: I guess whether we do it on purpose or by accident, it sounds like you did a little bit. We all commit to a volunteer role somewhere and that means that, yes, we have committed to it. And there are things, like you said, that you need to put off or miss out on. And if that's the vacuuming, who cares?

Lisa: That's right. And also I've had plenty of opportunity to pass the group on as well, just to say I've had enough, you guys can look after it now. But also I haven't wanted to handle that burden to anybody else. I created this. So the good and the bad, I want to be responsible for that because there are more involved admin than other. And I don't want the more involved admin to have the burden of putting the hours in that I would have been doing. So I guess that's part of my motivation. And still running it and still putting it in as much as I do.

Kimberley: Sounds like it's a really social group where, as you said, people can say, we want to start a group or does anybody want to catch up for coffee or play dates for kids, that sort of thing. Have you found that's been one of the main things for the group?

Lisa: I think so, up until about two years ago. So when the pandemic started, there was quite regular meetups and it was good for mental health of our mums to have that face to face contact. And that was really one of our main motivations.

Kimberley: And the thing that gets you out of the house, actually, because otherwise if you don't have someone saying, we're having coffee at eleven, yeah, you could be stuck in the house.

Lisa: You and I know how important that is just to have that contact of somebody else, especially if your partner is away daily or even weekly like mine is. And you might not have um spoken to an adult in person for a couple of days.

Kimberley: It's not about the caffeine.

Lisa: That's right. No, it's not. It's really important. And then unfortunately, pandemic came here and we again became an important resource because we were just some contact. So there was a lot of, especially at the beginning and up until quite recently, actually, there's a lot of confusion everywhere about rules and regulations and things like that. So we've had to be very careful because we're not a health source. So as much as we do want to have posts up about certain things to do with covid and all that sort of stuff, we have to deny some and say, you have to actually ask the health authorities about this.

Kimberley: Refer to SA Health 100%.

Lisa: Because we can't have conspiracy theory.

Kimberley: No. They don't help at all.

Lisa: No. And we can't have people go, I think it's this, but I'm really not sure there are some situations where they do actually have to have proper information and it's dangerous for us to provide a platform for people to sort of give out um not very good advice.

Kimberley: So was that a really busy time? Well, has the last two years been a really busy time for the admin, keeping a handle on that?

Lisa: Yeah, absolutely. And it's been confusing for us as well because there are so many different rules and regulations to do with covid. So we even don't know a lot of the things. And we try and keep our finger on the pulse of it. And there are, like I said, there's nine of us. So we all sort of have um a bit of input with what's going on. We update each other. I think there was a Press conference today. I noticed that admin were chatting and saying, oh, they're saying this now. They're saying that now. And it's not because we're interested or we want to have this conversation. It's because if somebody wants to post to the group and say what's happening here or what's happening there, we can actually just message them and say, look, you need to contact this resource or we can't really have a discussion about this because it could get into dangerous territory, especially with people's health. That's something that you can't really play around with.

Kimberley: No.

Lisa: Which is quite dangerous on mums groups especially. We have to be careful with health advice, even with things like temperatures and any medical advice.

Kimberley: How much Panadol to give?

Lisa: That's right.

Kimberley: What brand, how high is the fever? What do we do about nappy rash?

Lisa: Yeah, that's right. And people can say what works for them, uh but what works for them and their family will not translate to working for other people and other people's family. So, yeah, we have to be really careful. So anything to do with health advice or medical advice, we do refer.

Kimberley: Okay.

Lisa: Um or we allow and just kind of have a bit of a warning. Just be careful not to offer too much medical advice or call this number if you have any questions or things like that. Because another thing that we do like, is when people do ask questions, feel a bit funny about it. So we kind of just want, I guess everybody to know that whatever you're going through, whether it's mental health, medical, family situations, anything like um that, there's almost 5000 mums out there.

Kimberley: We've all done that.

Lisa: Chances are that someone's either been there, done that, or they're going through it right now and they're thanking their lucky stars that somebody have the guts to post on a community page or parenting forum so they can actually go, okay, I need to go here or that's really good advice, or that makes me feel better because somebody else is going.

Kimberley: So you're not the only one reading the answers to your question. There's other parents out there who are saying, oh, thank goodness they asked that, because I really wanted to know.

Lisa: And we actually have a reach thing. So each question asked, we have a little number off to the side. And generally each question that's asked on the page gets a couple of thousand reaches, which means that a couple of thousand people have seen your posts. So that's not even interactions. it's how many people have read it, have stopped, have clicked into it or read it. So each post does get quite a lot of reaches. And that doesn't mean that people are ignoring you. It just means people are interested to see what the answer. Yes, that's right.

Kimberley: Along with the social, there's all the support that parents get, like you said, from knowing that someone else has gone through this before or someone else is going through it right now, is that something that you find happens a lot in the group?

Lisa: It does. And about three or four years ago, we um actually had quite a few local professionals realize that we were there and whether or not they were wanting to use us as a resource as well. But I do notice that there's quite a few local professionals, like counselors or real estate agents or lawyers or whatever it is. They either put their information on a post or they'll just say, that doesn't sound right, let's have a chat. Or in the case of a lawyer, someone will say, no, this isn't correct. And here's another resource for you to go to. So we do actually have quite a lot of support within our membership. It's not so much admin anymore. It's more than members, supporting members, which is that's fantastic.

Kimberley: Yeah. Really good to see. And good to see people who, like you said, lawyers, real estate agents, counselors, that sort of thing, who can pick up on a question and say, well, actually, I actually do know something about that. And I'll message you.

Speaker UNK: Yes.

Kimberley: And make sure that things are going okay for you.

Lisa: Yeah, that's right. We're really actually quite lucky that I guess there's this stigma around mother's groups in particular and parenting groups. And I do understand why a couple of years ago, I joined probably ten or 15 worldwide and Australia wide parenting groups and mothers groups in particular. And some of them are like the Wild West, honestly. They shoot each other down. And I learned a lot from these groups. What not to do 100%, but what to do as well what works for those groups. I've also implemented into the mum's group with our twist on it as well. I think having that stigma around mum's groups can kind of harm us as well, because there is a bit of like, oh, they're so judgmental. I've never been a part of mums groups, blah, blah, blah. And I know there are quite a few mums in the Hills that do have that feeling because I have had negative experiences in these other groups. And I'm not going to say we're different, but we have some, I guess, more control over. What we always say to our members is that the Hills is a small community. As big as it's got, it is still a small community. And if you're rude to this member on our Facebook group, chances are you're going to see them down at Coles doing the shopping or you're going to see them at the next parenting group or you're going to see them at school pick up. Because as much as the population has grown, people still know people who know people.

Kimberley: We do.

Lisa: And I guess that kind of brings down that whole anomaly of Facebook in particular. People feel like they can sort of comment whatever. They can comment behind their screen. They kind of can't do that in our group.

Kimberley: They can't hide.

Lisa: They can't hide from their opinions. So you better make sure that your opinion is a nice one or at least supportive and true, at least supportive. Yeah. And that's really what we ask for as admin. Even if you disagree with them, just say, Look, I don't agree, but we're still friends. You don't have to be rude if you don't agree with what somebody is saying. And that's being an adult and we're all adults on the page, there's no kids on there. So, yeah, that's pretty much what we've tried to sort of encourage in our group and the culture of our group. So whether or not we pull it off is another thing entirely. We'll leave that to the members out of our hands.

Kimberley: All right, time to get into some nitty gritty. Got any stories to share about things that have happened in the group?

Lisa: We have helped a lot of mums at a stage in their life where um something incredibly tragic has happened in losing a child or losing, a baby, being pregnant. So those moments are probably one of the most meaningful because at times, actually, most of the time, we're their first contact, so they haven't. I know I've counselled a mum. She hadn't even told her husband yet. And that was tragic. That was tragic. As hard as they are, it's quite flattering that people think that that's where comfort lies, is within us. And that's probably one of the most, I guess, meaningful. Like, this is why I do it. This is why all my hours go into it, because I can help people. Other stories I guess we've actually helped quite a lot of local businesses. There's been some mum startups, which I've been quite proud of. There was one lady who's not sewing anymore. She just closed her business down. But she was really popular with the mums because she started doing cloth pads.

Kimberley: I remember that one.

Lisa: Yes.

Kimberley: And everybody was after that.

Lisa: Everybody went for it and she got so many sales and that was brilliant. I just watched a little business grow and grow and grow. And she worked really hard and I was just super proud of her because she just took it all on in her stride and she really encouraged the mums to make the change. And that was a really good time. We've seen each other's kids grow. I guess that's another thing.

Kimberley: Yeah.

Lisa: So when we first started, there was a core, probably 100 to 200 of us, and a lot of them are still in the group. We've been able to watch all of our kids grow. My daughter actually turned nine yesterday. I put her photo up on Facebook and I went, she's nine today. This is brilliant. Beautiful. And a lot of the people who commented were mums that I've known her whole life and lived through that group, and that's just wonderful. They've watched from this tiny little baby right up until this beautiful little nine year old. And how lucky are we to have had that and vice versa? I've watched all their kids grow up, so that way it's been amazing.

Kimberley: Do you get times where it's three a.m., someone's baby will not sleep and they're just at the end of their tether and all they can do is sit there with their phone or their computer and just say, Someone talk to me. How do I get it to sleep? Just get me through until morning. Do you get that sort of thing happening?

Lisa: Absolutely, yeah. All the time. We actually get personal messages as well, through the night, which I had to put a stop to a couple about two years ago. I can't get messages through the night anymore.

Kimberley: Once your own kids are sleeping through the night.

Lisa: Nobody else is waking me up. But we learnt very early on as admin just to turn our phones off because even though it's good to get those messages and have those be that contact and that support for people, we're not professionals and you're just people. You've got life regular old people. We've all got partners, we've got houses, we've all got jobs. At the end of the day, we aren't trained counselors. So the advice or the stories that we can give you isn't legitimate advice, really. It's just our experience or the people that we refer you on to. We're hoping that they can help.

Kimberley: Yes.

Lisa: Because we can't do it.

Kimberley: So is there usually someone there at three a.m. on the group?

Lisa: No, it gets quiet at night. There are a lot of mums that do interact with. So we approve posts. Not a lot of people post during the night, but they do interact with the posts that are already on there. So they comment and they talk to each other. And we promote a lot for Mums to message each other. So we always say ask to message her about the situation or that situation. And that's really been handy to have, especially if somebody has had a bad experience through any kind of facility or anything like that.

Kimberley: It's nice to do that privately.

Lisa: It's nice to do that privately. Even though we are a private group, we would prefer if you don't say it is public. We prefer if you don't say it through the group, because we have had issues with businesses in the past saying, your group has said this about my business and we have copped letters from lawyers and things like that. So it has gotten to that point. I would rather not go to court over somebody.

Kimberley: No, don't need people doing that.

Lisa: And admin are held responsible for that because we provide the platform for it. So, yeah, that's why we're always on top of that one. No naming and shaming. We just can't do it. I'm sorry.

Kimberley: It's a good rule to. Yeah. Through all this good work that you have done, you are recognized in the Australia Day Awards with the Mayor's Award.

Lisa: So exciting.

Kimberley: So how did you find out that you've been nominated for that?

Lisa: Well, was that last year? No, it was last year. Uh one of our beautiful members, Hannah, she's absolutely gorgeous. She actually nominated me for Citizen of the Year.

Kimberley: Wow.

Lisa: Which was amazing. So I went to that ceremony and it was beautiful. What amazing ceremony. So it was lovely. It was awesome to be recognized and nominated. And then this year I got an email from Sarah from the Council. She's beautiful. She does all of their events and everything. It's amazing to communicate with. She emailed me and she says, hey, you're getting this award this year. I was like, Hang on a minute. Am I nominated for this is news to me. I mean, I know I'm good, but yeah, she said that the Mayor wanted to highlight volunteerism in 2022, which is all online. And I guess volunteering has taken a bit of a hit in the last couple of years with things being closed and not being able to have that in person, hands on volunteering. So a lot of it did go on online and, yeah, we were recognized for it, which is just amazing.

Kimberley: So you didn't make it to the ceremony?

Lisa: No, unfortunately.

Kimberley: What happened?

Lisa: We were isolated. Yeah, it was just super bad timing, actually. We were two days off missing out. it was two days after the ceremony. We weren't allowed out, but, yeah, unfortunately.

Kimberley: Did you get to see it online?

Lisa: I did, yeah. I got to show family and friends and stuff so it was really good. It was just um really nice to be recognized. And then lovely. Sarah dropped everything off at the front, so, yeah, it was lovely. So they put the certificate in a frame, and I got a couple of other little prizes. It was really lovely. So it's nice to be recognized.

Kimberley: Did you get any of the Mayor's special bickies?

Lisa: I did. Amazing. My husband enjoyed them as well.

Kimberley: Yeah. And really great. Not just for you, but to recognize the whole group and what it has done.

Lisa: I know I get recognized a lot, and people talked to me a lot about the group, and um I guess I'm still sort of the face of the group, which is brilliant. But if they could only see how much the admin do behind the scenes, and they pull me up a lot as well, because my heart and soul's into this. Like, I'm all in. If something goes wrong or something happens, I actually have a tendency to react quite emotionally to it, and they're like, look at it logically, look at it this way or look at it that way. So they're actually quite good at reining me in, as well as what's happening on the group. The thing I like about our admin team is we're all friends. Like, we all become quite good friends, and we all have different perspectives in life.

Kimberley: That's handy.

Lisa: So we do disagree on a lot of things. when we do disagree, it's good because we get that whole picture.

Kimberley: You've got a few different perspectives.

Lisa: Yeah, we're lucky that way where it's not just one person's opinion on one person's decision. It's actually nine people making this decision. So whatever you see through the group is filtered through quite a lot of smart moms thinking about it.

Kimberley: Sounds like the entire admin group is really important for making the whole mums group happen.

Lisa: We've got a brilliant admin team at the moment and past admin team as well. They've helped establish the group. There's quite a few mums that have admin for a couple of years and then left and a couple of came back to. But the ones early on helped sort of establish these blocks that we could springboard off now. But our team at the moment are brilliant, amazing ladies. I can't say enough good things about them. Here's your opportunity. I love them. They know how much I love them.

Kimberley: All right. Much appreciation for all of the admins. They've obviously helped you along the way.

Lisa: Yeah, definitely.

Kimberley: And made sure that the group could still exist and run well and not have too many of those letters from businesses and lawyers.

Lisa: No.

Kimberley: Have there been other things that have really helped the group to keep going for all these nine years?

Lisa: I think as I was saying before the core members, I think they had early on taking some ownership over the group as well. So there are a lot of members on there who do sort of say, um hey, we don't do that here or this isn't the page for that and things like that. And I think it's not just admin trying to keep it going, or it's not just me trying to keep it going. It is the membership that runs it as well. And I think that has been the thing that kept it going is that people are quite loyal to our group and people sort of say to other mums, hey, this is a really good resource. Join this group, because I've actually found some great ideas here or I've found really great support here, or you're a new mum. I've heard that people at the hospital have recommended us for new mums to join. One of the local developers actually have our group on their advertisement on their website, really as um something attractive for people to come. So we do get recommended and that's pretty special, I thought

Kimberley: Have you had any challenges on the way?

Lisa: Yeah, a lot. I'm not going to sugarcoat.

Kimberley: Not all smooth sailing.

Lisa: No, a lot of challenges, unfortunately. We've been approached in public. There's been disagreements that have happened on the group and I've had people at my house sort of say I didn't appreciate this decision and things like that. So it's been that way, I guess. But this was early on as well. Like having said, that hasn't happened for quite a while.

Kimberley: A little bit of growing pains.

Lisa: A lot of growing pains. Yeah. I think what actually saved our group, because I was on the verge of just eliminating it together about four or five years ago. I think what saved the group was we do post approval now, so we can just.

Kimberley: I think that saved a lot of groups. Yeah.

Lisa: We can check the post before it's on there. And it's not just people posting whatever they want, whenever they want. We actually know what's going to be on the group before it's on there.

Kimberley: It does make the task of moderating a group a lot easier.

Lisa: Yeah. And it did take a lot for us to get there, but there were a couple of incidents that happened and it was in real life that shouldn't have happened and it was unfortunate and we just decided from then on to put on post approval and it was personal attacks of me and admin and we can't do this anymore. We either close the group down or we do post approvals.

Kimberley: Probably a really good move to do the post approvals and I'm sure there are parents out there who are thanking you every day for keeping that group going.

Lisa: Honestly, I think it's a really good resource for people who have just had a baby, especially if it's their first baby, because there are a lot, like it's a wealth of experience.

Kimberley: There's so much to know. What do I feed it? When do I feed it? What sort of nappies? How often do they change nappies. How do I clean them?

Lisa: I'm feeling this way on day four.

Kimberley: Yes. Is Am I supposed to cry all the time?

Lisa: And those posts are amazing because then you see mums who have kids around 15 and 16, or you see those mums who have kids around 20 or 25, or you see grandmas who are a part of our group, which I love. And they go, Sweetheart, you will be fine. I love. that You're

Kimberley: It's okay.

Lisa: Because you need that mum saying to you, you are doing so well, you're caring about this issue, which means you're a good mum.

Kimberley: Yes.

Lisa: And you don't realize that until somebody says that to you. Okay, I'm doing the right thing. I'm okay. And those posts are just amazing. All the grannies and all the older mums, they come out of the woodwork, all the mums that I have six months old and say, oh, that was me five months ago. I tell you what, I felt this way and it was just awful. But you know what? I feel this way now, and it's great. Those mums connect. They go out for a coffee and they make each other feel better. And that's 100% the only thing we want out of the group.

Kimberley: It sounds like mission accomplished. And keep doing all of that.

Lisa: We'll try.

Kimberley: I got a question for you. If you could tell all the mums in the world one thing, what would it be?

Lisa: It's only a season. So a month old will only be a month old once. A two year old. A ratty little two year old sometimes will only be a ratty little two year old once. So I'm in a fairly privileged position where I had a baby when I was 20. She's now 21. And then I had another baby when I was 32, and she's now nine. So I experienced parenthood early on and a little bit later. So when I had my second, I just drunk it all in because I knew how quickly it went. My oldest was twelve, and I had my second. And to me, my twelve year old was tiny and beautiful and baby. And then I had a baby.

Kimberley: Suddenly, a twelve year old is galumphing giant.

Lisa: She's a big tween, and now she's 21 and she's living in the city with her boyfriend.

Kimberley: When they're 21 and they go off to live in the city with their boyfriend. Is that a thing that comes up in the mum's group? Yes. So it's not just babies?

Lisa: No. That's another really good thing. The teenage years are just shocking.

Kimberley: Yes, they can be hard on everyone.

Lisa: And thankfully, we have a lot of mums in the group who are at that stage. And they do support each other because not having support at that time can just horrible. It's awful. But, yeah, I guess everything is a season. Everything only happens once when you have kids, as you know, they grow so quickly.

Kimberley: They do. And there is no point getting upset that they've reached a milestone because that's a tick you can put on the box and got them that far onto the next one.

Lisa: I guess the other thing, too is that we get a lot of posts that my two year old hasn't started talking yet, or my 18 month old is still only crawling things like that. I guess every adult is different. Every child is different, too. So there will be kids that don't fit into the mold of development. So if your child isn't walking at 18 months old, it doesn't mean that they're not going to be walking by the age of two. It just means they're a little bit late. Or if they're walking at nine months old, you've got an early development running shoes on either end of the spectrum. Don't worry about it too much until it really does become an issue, because every kid develops at a different rate.

Kimberley: And pretty much by the time they start school, they're all walking, talking, and going to the toilet all by themselves, mostly, most of the time.

Lisa: And having no idea what they do every day.

Kimberley: They're all there by the time you send them on.

Lisa: What did you do at school today? I have no idea.

Kimberley: All right, last question for you. The last nine years have been busy ones for you running the Mums group, and probably years where you've learned a lot and grown a lot and done all sorts of new things. What's in the future for you?

Lisa: I am actually studying at the moment.

Kimberley: Why am I not surprised?

Lisa: So actually, about twelve months ago, um 18 months ago, I uh hit myself in the head and I went, What are you doing? You need to get qualified, girl. So I like to think that I do have a little bit of experience behind me now.

Kimberley: I think you do, yes.

Lisa: I thought, well, may as well go for it. So I'm getting a diploma in counseling. I should be done in about twelve months time, so I'll be able to legitimately help people who do message me, but also take on clients and things like that so that's my next sort of five years is building a client base. Hopefully the group will benefit from it.

Kimberley: Are you finding that you're benefiting from all this experience you've had ?

Lisa: Yeah, definitely. It's changed me as a person. I guess I've become a little bit more rounded as a person. I thought I knew who I was before I was early 30s. I knew everything and I'm an adult and don't tell me otherwise.

Kimberley: Sounds about right.

Lisa: Yeah, but yeah, I've grown up a lot in the last nine years and realized that the world around me is a little bit more damaged than I thought it was. And there are people out there who just need a good old chat. Why not do that for the rest of my life?

Kimberley: Sounds like a plan. Well, Congratulations on your award.

Lisa: Thank you.

Kimberley: And on the last nine years of work you've done on the mum's group and of course, there's 21 or so years practice you've had since the start. It sounds like you've got a long way to go. Lots of cool things ahead of you.

Lisa: Yeah. I'm really looking um forward to the next couple of years. I think the group is just going to steadily grow as it always has done, although we haven't really got anything on the horizon for catch ups or anything like that, I think we're just going to keep trying to strengthen that community sort of support and getting us out there a little bit more and capturing those mums who need that support in the community.

Kimberley: That's wonderful. Well, thanks so much for having a chat with us today on What the Hills.

Lisa: Thank you very much.

Kimberley: That's all for What the Hills this week. Tune in next week for more local stories from the Adelaide Hills on Lofty 88.9 and lofty.org au at midday on Monday and in your podcast app anytime. What the Hills is produced on Peramangk land in the Adelaide Hills in South Australia. Music is written and produced by Daniel Biggs. Voiceover by Andrew Challen What the Hills is produced and edited by Studio 4. If you have a local story to share, get in touch with us on social media.

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Happy Mother's Day!

We have a special Mother's Day guest for you this week.  I'm talking to Lisa Yates from the Mount Barker Mum's Group on Facebook. 

We talk about the very beginning of the group, how it's grown over the years, and what it offers to the parents of the Mount Barker district - and much further afield.  The group has had a big impact on its members, with support and information being offered on all sorts of topics from nappy rash to surviving the teenage years.  So much of an impact that it was recognised in the 2022 Australia Day Awards.

And I'd like to say Happy Mother's Day to all the Mums listening, including my own Mum.  Have a fantastic day.

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A quick midweek episode all about Nairne's main street.

Main Streets Week is coming up, and if you love Nairne's main street, this is your opportunity to show it by entering a photo competition.

Listen in for details, and to hear all about why Eduardo thinks Nairne's main street is special.

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Helen from St Andrew's church in Strathalbyn talks about upcoming events being run as part of the church's huge fundraising effort.

Why do they need to raise funds?  What's happening?  Will we hear bagpipes?

All this and more will be revealed!

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This week's guest is current serving member and Centre Alliance candidate, Rebekha Sharkie.

Rebekha has been serving the Mayo community for the past six years, and says it's a job she loves and wants to continue doing.  Given that she sees the election as a job performance review, I asked her all about how she thinks she's been doing so far.

We covered topics from aged care and health to telecommunications and how she works with other members of parliament at both the state and federal levels.

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This week on What The Hills we present a special Anzac program.

For me as a kid growing up in a service family I've seen Anzac day dawn services all over the country. At military bases, in major cities, in tiny country towns, and at the beach. I've seen the popularity of attending the services swell leading up to the centenary of the 1915 landing at Gallipoli, and it's been heartening to see so many young people attending, either with their families or independently.

This year, I have a story to share with you. Over the past few years I've been slowly researching the history of my great great uncle Charlie: Charles Roy Stanbridge. Along the way I've learned about not only Charlie, but his group of mates, named in the newspapers of the time as the Gallipoli Die-Hards.

We all have a story of a service person in the family. Whether it's as old as that of Charlie and his mates, or it's someone serving today, all the stories deserve to be told, and to be heard.

Charles Roy Stanbridge was born on 1 December 1894 to Charles and Mary Ann Stanbridge of Wolfram Street Broken Hill.

He had a lot of siblings including his brother George and sisters Florrie, Una, Nina, Gertie, Chrissy and Ivy. Dad, Charles senior was into a lot of sports, was a member of local community groups, and ran a bit of slightly illegal bookmaking on the side. Mum Mary Ann was busy wrangling all her offspring - and they were an energetic lot. The Stanbridge kids were active in school, in sport and at church.

When Charlie was six years old there was a fire in the kitchen out the back of the house, but the neighbours quickly brought it under control before too much damage was done to the house. The family's financial situation made repairs difficult, but somehow they managed.

Charlie attended Broken Hill District School, and was an average student. In fact it's probably fair to say that academic pursuits weren't of much interest to him. Charlie's siblings were also into sports, and his sister Nina was a member of the Bonnie Thistles hockey team which was the centre of a vicious on-field brawl against a visiting team, with the story making it into the local paper.

By the time he was ten years old Charlie was well into sports, following his father's footsteps into any sport around.

He joined the army cadets, and also at the age of ten was entering shooting competitions.

By the time Charlie was sixteen his sisters had begun to marry and move on to their own lives, although young Nina went on to a long career as a nurse.

When Charlie finished school he went to work at Humphries & Sons and then at Tregoning's, working in the warehouse and driving a horse & cart.

On the 18th of August 1914 the call went out in the local newspaper, the Barrier Miner, that local men should be ready to undertake a medical and travel by overnight train to Morphettville for enlistment.

On 20 August Charlie was one of hundreds of men who answered the call and showed up to be given a medical check.

The story from the Barrier Miner, 21 August 1914 describes the scenes in Broken Hill that night.

BROKEN HILL MEN FOR ACTIVE SERVICE.LAST NIGHT'S LEAVETAKING. ENTHUSIASTIC SEND-OFF TO EIGHTY MEN.

At 6.25 last night Sergeant Major Hansom ordered his squad to attention, and Broken Hill's volunteers for the Australian expeditionary force were on active service.

Prior to this the local military authorities had been busy throughout the day examining and making final selection of the men who were to leave by the express the same night.

The A.M.C and Engineers contingents were drafted without much difficulty; it was known that 20 of the former and 43 of the latter were to go, and these were rapidly selected from the large number of volunteers who had enlisted in response to the call to arms.

A little after 6 o'clock the Engineers' drill hall in Crystal-street presented a busy appearance as Sergeant major Ransom lined up his 43 men and gave them a few preliminary instructions. He paraded the squad, about 10 of whom were in uniforms, in two lines, and earnestly appealed to them to "play the game" on the journey down and not get up to any pranks or rough horseplay which would annoy other passengers on the train and give the squad a bad name right at the very outset of its active career.

He then initiated the men into the mysteries of "form fours, "stand at ease," "attention," and other simple orders, all of which, within a few minutes, the men were able to perform rapidly and correctly. A short spell at "ease," and then came the first active service order :"Squad, 'shun Right turn. March! "The kettle-drums provided a smart beat and the men squared their shoulders and marched away four abreast via Sulphide-street and Argent-street to Oxide-street, where they halted and stood at ease in front of the entrance to the Skating Rink.

In front of the Skating Rink a band formed of instrumentalists from the Broken Hill, Broken Hill City, and the Salvation Army bands, took the lead. A huge crowd of people was assembled here, but there was no demonstration as the volunteers once more put their best feet foremost and commenced the march to the station. Just after rounding into Argent-street, however, there was a loud cheer, which was repeated again and again before the men got to Sulphide-street, while there were frequent calls from the spectators, who recognised friends among the men, of "Good luck, lad," "Good-bye, Jack,"

At the railway station an immense crowd of thousands of people had assembled to witness the departure of the troops. So congested with people was the platform and all the approaches thereto, that it was with difficulty that the men got through the booking hall and across the intervening space to the train. There was some minutes to spare before the departure of the express, during which goodbyes were uttered; not entirely without wet eyes, pathetic speeches, and clinging embraces, though these were few and far between. On the whole the last words of farewell were cheery and lively. Here and there women, some with babies, in arms, struggled through the tightly packed crowd towards friend or relative among the departees, while some sought in vain for those whom they wished to see but who were hidden from view among the crowds in the carriages or on the platform.

Those of the volunteers who could get to the windows or on the end platforms of the carriages talked with friends or joined in the singing of popular songs.

Just before the whistle went for the train to draw out, the scene became still more wildly enthusiastic. Cheers mingled with the calling out of goodbyes and the names of friends. A great cheer from thousands of throats rent the air, and a forest of hats and handkerchiefs waved farewell. The demonstration continued until the last carriage had crossed over Bromide-street.

The total number of the troops who left last night was 77, making 123 who have so far departed.

From the Barrier Miner 21 August 1914

Charlie's family were among those lining the streets and the train platform that night. I can imagine that with three of his fond sisters to see him off, as well as his parents and brother, Charlie wouldn't have been able to get away without quite a few hugs and kisses and maybe a few tears.

Charlie was in good company though. He was surrounded by his mates. Local lads who he'd grown up with, and who would now venture into the unknown at his side. Some of the names heard again and again alongside Charlie Stanbridge are Jacky Meade, Curly Richards, Doc White, and Sandy Glades. When they got to Morphettville they met up with Jack Macarty, who had spent some time in Broken Hill, and was soon part of the group.

The day after boarding the train, the young men arrived in Adelaide and marched from the train station to the camp at Morphettville. Charlie was assigned the serial number 297 and the rank of Private in H company, part of the 10th Battalion, 3rd Brigade.

You'd think that all the bustle of new men arriving every day to be processed, enlisted, supplied, trained, and prepared would be enough going on, but thousands of people visited the camp every day to see what was happening. Even the Governor visited on 1 September.

Some time during all of this busyness, Charlie found time to have a studio portrait taken in his new uniform. It shows him so young, not yet twenty years old. He was tall and fit and proud to be doing something for king and country. He sent the picture home to his mother.

Three of Charlie's older sisters lived in Adelaide, and it's a good bet that they were among the visitors to the Morphettville camp as well. I wonder, did they bring some comforts of home, maybe a cake to share with his friends? Did they take him out for a meal? Were they proud to see him in his uniform? What did they say to him during that long goodbye?

On the 20th of October 1914 Charlie and his mates boarded the Ascanius at Outer Harbour.

They sailed at 4.30pm, with a total of 1004 on board, made up of 31 officers, 969 men, two sister nurses, 1 YMCA representative, and somehow one man more than they had expected. I'm a little curious about this extra individual who was noticed when they counted heads. A photo taken in the camp once they arrived in Egypt shows that someone managed to get a kangaroo on board.

Five days later, after a very pleasant voyage, they arrived at Fremantle at 8am on a Sunday morning. They stayed in Fremantle for a few days. During this time two more nurses and two chaplains joined the ship

The Governor, Major General Sir Harry Barron and Lady Barron came on board to visit for a couple of hours, and enjoyed lunch with the officers.

On the first of November they set sail for Egypt.

Just over a week later the wireless operator intercepted a message from Cocos Island - an SOS to say that the Australian Navy Ship HMAS Sydney was in trouble. The Ascanius at once steamed to the rescue. Four hours later another message was received "The Emden is beached and done for". This was received with great enthusiasm and cheering from all on board. The Ascanius resumed its journey northward.

Captain Müller of the Emden had taken his ship to raid the Cocos Islands, where he landed a contingent of sailors to destroy British facilities. There, Emden was attacked by the Australian cruiser HMAS Sydney on 9 November 1914. The more powerful Australian ship quickly inflicted serious damage and forced Müller to run his ship aground to avoid sinking. Out of a crew of 376, 133 were killed in the battle. Most of the survivors were taken prisoner.

On the 21st of November, in the early hours of the morning, those on board had a rude awakening when the Ascanius collided with the troop ship "Shropshire". The collision alarm was sounded, and everyone reported to the top decks with their life belts. The officers had loaded revolvers in hand. Soon they were instructed to move to the boat deck in case they needed to evacuate, which they did in complete silence, staying there until 5.30am. An inspection showed that the damage was above the waterline, and the sea was calm, so everyone returned to their normal duties while repairs were carried out.

Finally, on the 6th of December, five days after Charlie's 20th birthday, and more than five weeks after they left Adelaide they arrived at Alexandria in Egypt at 4pm. They immediately began unloading the ship. The next day they disembarked and boarded an electric train for Cairo. The company finally reached the training camp at Mena at about 4am.

From then on it was training day after day as they waited for word on when their active service would commence. They learned and improved all the expected skills needed, including marching, setting up camp, digging trenches

I have a photo of Charlie and a lot of other young soldiers posing in front of the Sphinx. Imagine the culture shock of these young men, who travelled from their homes and jobs and families, joined the army, sailed across the world for weeks on end, and found themselves in the middle of Egypt, within sight of the pyramids. And the great unknown of war ahead of them.

Christmas day was celebrated in camp. And boys will be boys - In February of 1915 Charlie, along with his friend George "Curley" Richards, was AWOL from night parade and confined to barracks for 4 days. Whatever they were doing that night proved to be their last hurrah before history overcame them.

Many of the men were becoming very aware of what they were about to face. They wrote up hurried, and usually very short, wills with instructions for what was to be done with their worldly possessions.

On the 28th of February 1915 new orders came in. The company left Mena by road and marched to Cairo. From there they travelled to Alexandria where they boarded the "Ionian" at 8am on Monday 1st March. The next day they left Alexandria and sailed to Lemnos. From there they expected to leave for the Dardanelles within a few weeks.

During the afternoon of the 24th of April they arrived near what is now called Anzac Cove on the Gallipoli Peninsula.

We all know what happened before the sun rose that morning. Australian troops landed on the beach, facing an almost impossible struggle to establish and defend a position inland.

A letter published in the Advertiser on 15 July 1915 tells the story of the landing at Gallipoli, from the point of view of Charlie's mate Jack McCarthy.

LETTERS FROM THE FRONTHOW PRIVATE STANBRIDGE DIED.

"Just a short note to let you know how Charlie Stanbridge met his death. As you know, we had to land on Gallipoli Peninsula against an enemy strongly entrenched. The 10th landed first, being the covering party. We landed early in the morning with machine gun fire and shrapnel shell flying about us everywhere. We lost heavily, but we pushed the enemy back with the bayonet about one and a half miles. They were then too strongly entrenched for us. We were on open country, and had to dig ourselves in under heavy artillery, machine gun, and rifle fire. Several of our chaps went under. You know, I expect, by now who suffered. We are not allowed to give particulars. Just a few of us shifted back hundreds of our enemy. Poor Charlie was right up in the front line. He got hit through the head, dying instantly. He was a game boy and died doing his duty for his country. No man can do more. He always played the game and was every inch a soldier and a man. No one can realise what we have gone through. Australian people were always giving us (in Broken Hill) a bad name. I would like some of our critics to be here and see what we are doing. The Australians are the bravest lot of men that ever one would wish to meet. They have no fear of death: in fact, they do not know what death means. They will go anywhere. This game is good, but I think the next army I join will be the Salvation Army. We are right on a sea frontage, but do not have a swim very often. My boots have not been off for two weeks, but we don't mind as long as we beat these black devils."Advertiser 15 July 1915

But the story doesn't stop with Charlie's death. He was survived by some of his friends. Another letter from Jack McCarthy was published in the Barrier miner on 18 May 1915

We have been in the trenches three weeks. It is our home now: we never leave, them.

It is a strange life, but we are quite used to it now. We make our trenches as comfortable as possible. We get splendid food, tea three times a day, and are as happy as Australians always are.

Shrapnel is bursting around us all day, and the Turkish snipers are always busy. We fought against fearful odds; we were in the open country, and at the mercy of the enemy's artillery.

If we could have entrenched ourselves we would have been all right, but we had to lie down flat. If we raised our heads it was good-bye. It was two days before I was under cover.

We landed at 3o'clock Sunday morning, and it was Wednesday night before we got relief. I had only one bottle of water and one tin of beef the whole time. We were always thirsty, but never hungry. We were being attacked the whole time. No sleep, only watching and waiting for the Turks to rush us. We were all exhausted, and had to be taken out of the trenches. Our minds seemed dazed, and it was a week before we got over it.

We had a splendid lot of officers at our head. No one will ever know what good work they did. There were only 57 men in our line of trenches, and we kept hundreds of Turks at bay. We mowed them down as quickly as they came up. The only orders we received were "Hang on, hang on; these trenches hare got to be held while there is a man left."

We landed first, and pushed the Turks in about a mile. Our work was to keep them back while the rest of the Australians landed. If they broke through our lines we would have all been swept into the sea. . It would have been good-bye to all of us then. The Turks, though they said in their paper they had us, we had them surrounded, and are slaughtering them in hundreds. They said "the Australians know they are doomed, but are too stubborn to give in.

We are now giving the Turks all they want - we are getting our own back; they will know pretty soon whether we are beaten or not. We have our artillery landed, so that they get plenty of shrapnel now. They are lying all over the country in front of us, and I can assure you the dead bodies don't smell too pleasant. Now and again our men sneak out and bury them, but very few in front of the firing line are buried here.

I have not changed my clothes for three weeks; sometimes I think I am lousey, other times I am sure of it. We manage to wash once a week. If we go into the sea for a bathe they shell us, so we remain dirty.

Captain Shaw is our commander. He is one of the gamest officers we have struck. We will follow him wherever he leads us.

I suppose the Australian papers hare twisted a bit now, and instead of running us down are giving us a little praise. I would like some of those wowsers and long tongues who were continually running us down to have been with us the first week on the Turkish soil. They would have seen then what sort of stuff Australians are. We never once retreated. The Turks were given to understand that we were a lot of wasters, and they were going, to wipe us off the face of the earth. Poor Jack Turk got the shock 'of his life when we started on them.

If we had more men with us I think the Turks would have been in Constantinople by now. We were only a handful, and they were in hundreds, or I should say thousands. This may be my last letter. We cannot get paper, and are only allowed two cards a week. We are right in the wilder- ness, amongst scrub: not bad country, but a little too Turkish:

I feel splendid ; was never better in my life, and I am only waiting my chance to get right I in amongst these Turks again. God help them when we get loose amongst them again; we have got to avenge our dead comrades.

We will all be glad when we are home again. Tell Frank to dig me a trench in the backyard. I will never be able to sleep on a bed again. You would laugh if you could see us cooking. We get onions and potatoes. I was cook, and got the sack first day. They said I could not boil eggs without burning them.

Our officers will not let us send much news. We get no news of the world what-ever; we don't know anything about the war; we seldom get a paper. I would he glad if you would save the papers, so if I am lucky enough to come back I would be able to read of some of our doings; I only want to get beck to have a bath. Though we seldom have a wash we don't feel dirty. When our clothes get too bad and the fleas make things too hot, we throw our clothes away ; then we have to do a bit of skirmishing to get more clothes; we can nearly always get some from the dead or wounded.

The dead were good friends to us the first four days in the trenches - which were days of starvation. We had plenty of food in our packs, but on our landing we had to throw our packs away, because as we had to rush forward up very steep hills, we could not carry any weight. We had to make the little food we had in our knapsacks do until night, when we had to crawl out and search our dead comrades for whatever food we could get. Those four days seem like a dream to us now.

I think we have along job here. They thought' the Dardanelles impregnable. Well, we are miles up them now, so the Turks have not got their pet place impregnable yet. The Australians are the only troops which have ever landed here successfully. When Bulgaria was fighting the Turks she attempted to land here, and all her men were cut up. And when the Greeks were fighting the Turks they lost an army attempting to land here. So you can imagine the job we have had. Well, we are here, and I don't think all the Turks in Turkey can shift us. We have warships backing us up, and they are doing splendid work.

The British sailors are the finest lot, of men we have met. They treated us like gentlemen all the time we were on their warships. I never had much time for immigrants, but my views have changed now. It was an immigrant who helped me when I nearly had my leg knocked off; he carried all my equipment for me back to the beach.

When we were relieved from the trenches a great cap off a shrapnel shell banged me a wallop on the kneecap. I thought a railway engine had run into me. My leg was stiff for a while, but it is all right now.

Another letter home from Jack, written nearly a year after the landing, was accompanied by a picture of a couple of his mates. The newspaper published it under the title:

THE GALLIPOLI "DIE-HARDS"SOME BROKEN HILL MEN.

Corporal Jack M'Carthy sends to the editor of "The Miner" two postcards, each bearing the photograph of two soldiers. The cards are dated December 12 1915, from Lemnos Island. On the writing side Corporal M'Carthy gives the particulars printed below the pictures.

"The lad sitting is Private J. Midwinter, well known in South Broken Hill. He left the Hill with the late Privates Charles Stanbridge and Jacky Meade. Midwinter was wounded in the landing on April 25, but has now been back in the firing line four months. The lad photographed with him is Private J. Kent, who was also severely wounded in the landing, and was laid up for six months. He is back again with the 10th Battalion.

Midwinter, when landing, had to jump into 6ft. of water. He lost his rifle and he dived over the side of the boat twice with a 70lb. pack up, but could not reach it. At last he gave up and swam ashore without it. He charged the Turks with his entrenching tool. We all had to laugh to see 'Mid' diving for his rifle with bullets whistling all around him.

"On the other card is a photo of myself (wearing the cap). I am still attached to the 10th, and I have been right through the Gallipoli campaign. Though I have lost my five bosom friends, all Broken Hill lads - Corporal Glades, and Privates 'Doc' White, Jacky Meade, Charles Stanbridge, and George ('Curley') Richards - I am still left to go on with the fight. The one with me is Private Fred Bessel, son of Mr. R. Bessel (motor-car proprietor). He was for several years employed at De Barny's works. Bessel is a member of the11th Battalion. He has been six months on Gallipoli, and is still going strong. These photos were taken only a few days ago, and you will see that we do not look too bad after our many months in the trenches.

The Barrier Miner 27 February 1916

The body of Charles Roy Stanbridge, like so many killed in war, was never recovered. He is listed on the memorial at Lone Pine and the Australian War Memorial

It was not until the 15th of June that Charlie's family was informed of his death.

His footy club back home adjourned its regular meeting for 15 minutes that week in his honour, and the players all wore black arm bands for that week's game. I imagine those black arm bands got a lot of use over the next few years.

A notice in the paper showed a picture of Charlie, that one he had taken while he was training in Morphettville. The text reads: "Private Charles Roy Stanbridge, killed in action at the Dardanelles, was born in Wolfram Street, between Chloride and Oxide Streets, where his parents still reside. He was just over 20 years of age and was over six feet in height. He was among the first dozen to enlist in Broken Hill, and left Australia with the First Contingent. Just prior to enlistment he was working for Mr JE Tregoning, and was previously in Humphries & Sons Warehouse. Three sisters are living in Adelaide and some others in Broken Hill. Private Stanbridge's parents came to Broken Hill in 1885, and have been here ever since. He had been brought up from his earliest years in the Congregational Sunday School, and there are other members of the family attached to the church."

In March 1916 a parcel wrapped in brown paper was delivered to the Stanbridge home in Wolfram Street. It contained

Charlie's effects, which he had left safe when he landed at Gallipoli.

· A gift box
· Some Cigarettes
· A few coins
· A silk handkerchief
· 2 purses
· and some Curios
Clearly much of this was intended as gifts for his family.

More than two and a half years after his death, Charlie's mother finally started receiving a small pension of two pounds per week. With the familiar financial difficulties faced by the family, this amount was very important to help them stay afloat.

Later the family were presented with Charlie's British War Medal, Victory Medal, the 1914/15 Star and a memorial plaque.

Every year on Anzac Day, Charlie's mother Mary Ann placed a notice in the newspaper remembering her son. This continued until her death years later.

Charles senior went on with his life. He was a well known figure around Broken Hill, and in 1941 he was featured in the local newspaper as still being fit and active, and still riding his bike all over town at the age of 80.

Charlie's brother and most of his sisters went on to be married and raise families of their own. His sister Ivy is my great grandmother.

As you'll appreciate from listening to this program, one of my main primary sources of information was letters sent home by Jack McCarthy, and subsequently published in newspapers. I owe so much to this man who wanted to tell his story and that of his mates. I feel like he's speaking directly to me when he describes what happened at Gallipoli. It's partly through Jack that I know so much of the story of the Gallipoli Die-Hards. But strangely, Jack himself remained a mystery to me for years.

This week, while researching some minor detail for my program, I accidentally came across the name Jack Macarty. I followed some links, and confirmed that this Jack is the same one I've been searching for, for so long. In his diary he mentions Charlie Stanbridge, Sandy Glades, Curly Richards and Jacky Meade.

And the punchline of the story? Humphrey Warren Baker Macarty, known as Jack to his friends, lived in Mount Barker, where he was an electrician when he enlisted at Morphettville, the day after Charlie and his mates from Broken Hill.

Jack was at Gallipoli throughout the campaign until December 1915. By April of 1916 he was in hospital suffering from an illness, and from there he travelled home, via Fremantle, Melbourne, and finally to Adelaide where he spent some more time in hospital recovering.

Jack married and had a family. He moved to New South Wales, where he lived until his death in 1960.

Thanks to the Australian War Memorial and the National Library of Australia for making available records crucial to my research.

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This week on What The Hills we present a special Anzac program.

For me as a kid growing up in a service family I've seen Anzac day dawn services all over the country.  At military bases, in major cities, in tiny country towns, and at the beach.  I've seen the popularity of attending the services swell leading up to the centenary of the 1915 landing at Gallipoli, and it's been heartening to see so many young people attending, either with their families or independently.

This year, I have a story to share with you.  Over the past few years I've been slowly researching the history of my great great uncle Charlie:  Charles Roy Stanbridge.  Along the way I've learned about not only Charlie, but his group of mates, named in the newspapers of the time as the Gallipoli Die-Hards.

We all have a story of a service person in the family.  Whether it's as old as that of Charlie and his mates, or it's someone serving today, all the stories deserve to be told, and to be heard.

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This week's guest is Labor candidate for Mayo, Marisa Bell.

Marisa's long career in nursing and training has given her a strong background in advocacy.  It is that advocacy which she feels gives her the skills she needs to represent the people of Mayo at the federal level.  Marisa's compassion and desire to improve the safety and treatment of people a risk is evident when she speaks about the topics closest to her heart.

I caught up with Marisa to find out who she is and what her views are on the issues important to us.

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This week's guest is Greens candidate for Mayo, Greg Elliott. 

When Greg told the local Greens that he would do whatever he could for the cause, he didn't immediately realise that he would be the next candidate in the federal election.  He's taking it all in his stride, though, and doesn't seem to be at all overwhelmed by the situation.

I caught up with Greg to find out who he is and what his views are on the issues important to us.

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This month we're talking about the Aquatics Centre, Climate Change, the Town Square plan and Live Streaming of Council meetings.

Your monthly catch-up with Mayor Ann Ferguson of Mount Barker District Council.

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With the South Australian state election out of the way, it's time to turn our thoughts to the Federal election, and another round of corflutes, promises, hand shaking and democracy sausages.

What the Hills is working through another round of candidate interviews, catching up with as many as we possibly can before the big day.

This week we meet Liberals candidate Allison Bluck. 

Allison is reasonably new to the political scene, but she comes with a lot of enthusiasm and a drive to do the best she can for her party and for the Mayo community.

I caught up with Allison recently to find out who she is and what her views are on the issues important to us.

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Being involved in local community radio as I am, I get to meet a lot of local musicians.  What I most love is finding out about new artists who are at the start of their careers, and getting to know them at this most exciting time of their lives.

This week I met the lovely Ella and Sienna.  They are launching their musical careers and already have an impressive number of performances to their name.  With the recent release of their new track and studio time booked later this year there's a lot to get exited about.

I caught up with Ella & Sienna for a chat, but I also had the pleasure of featuring them as guests on my Sunday evening radio program, Say Hello, along with my co-hosts Bob and the Bus Man.  Today you get to hear both interviews, and if you're listening on the radio you'll hear two great tracks from Ella and Sienna.

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Some days it's nice to go for a walk in the park.  If you live in or near Mount Barker, Laratinga Wetlands is a great place to go, with shady trails to suit whatever length of walk you have in mind.  There's plenty to look at and you can have a nice chat with a friend as you stroll along.

But if it's a Saturday morning, don't be surprised if your quiet morning walk suddenly becomes a lot more busy.  You've met the worldwide phenomenon known as Parkrun.

Every Saturday morning hundreds of people of all descriptions meet and go for a 5 kilometre run or walk.  Parkrun is a free, volunteer run activity which just keeps growing in popularity. 

Mount Barker Parkrun has just reached its 8th birthday.  Not a bad achievement when Parkrun has only been in Australia for eleven years.

Recently I headed down to the little park out the back of the home maker centre to find out what all the fuss is about.  This week, instead of one long sit-down interview with a single guest, I have a lot of guests who joined me before, during and after the run.  If the last couple of chats get a bit noisy, just pretend you're in your favourite cafe.

https://www.parkrun.com.au/

https://www.facebook.com/mountbarkerparkrun

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What the Hills is not always about politicians, local events, and people who win awards.  Sometimes we just want to hear from ordinary people and find out about their amazing lives.

Today I'm talking to Jeanette Lindqvist.  She's had a very interesting life so far, with overseas travels and a stint in the South Australian desert.  Jeanette says that she seems to change her whole career path every few years, and that path has led her to all sorts of places.

So sit down, and strap yourself in for a roller coaster adventure through the eyes of Jeanette.

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This month the Mayor talks about bushfire relief, the Callington bridge, composting commercial food waste, Cupid's Koi Garden, and more.

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Heading to your local show is an annual tradition for most of our Adelaide Hills community.  Our shows provide a fantastic family day out where you can see the animals, check out the competitions and eat a lot of donuts.

It's one day out for most of us, but for our show committees the day is the culmination of days, weeks, and months of hard work.  Throw in the challenges of Covid and you have a huge workload.

The team of volunteers that works so hard to bring us these amazing events deserves a huge thanks and a pat on the back.  I caught up with Jocelyn and Sally from the Mount Barker District Show to chat about this year's show, and some of what they've put into it.

https://mountbarkerdistrictshow.org.au/

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It takes a lot of work to put on a country show.  And over the past couple of years it's taken an even bigger effort to put on any event at all.  So when your 2021 country show is not only a huge success, but also wins an award, you know you've done something amazing.

Today I'm talking to Wendy Grundy from the Callington Show about all the work that goes into making a country show happen, and how she is just one of the many essential people who work hard all year long to give us a great day out. 

We cover everything from covid plans to volunteer management, from peter coombe to the humble bantam egg. 

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When you're not just running an election campaign, but you're the current serving member in your electorate, time can be in short supply.  This week's interview with Kavel MP Dan Cregan was a lot shorter than I had planned.  Never fear - I did get to ask most of my standard questions to candidates, but Dan's interview was never going to turn out as long as the others in this series.

If you want to know more about Dan Cregan, or any of our local political candidates, get in touch with them.  They really do want to hear from us, and they're here to serve the community.

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Are you one of those people who sees beauty and poetry everywhere?

What if you could take the beauty you see and interpret it for others?

That's what Amanda Tuohy has been doing all her life.  As a little girl, quiet and scared of everything, she asked "what will be my purpose in life?" The answer to her question has led her on a lifelong journey in the arts.

Now settled in the Hills, Amanda has embarked on a new endeavour, and is looking forward to the next chapter of her life.

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There's always something going on in the district.

This month:

• Transport
• Disaster Response
• Love Your Library
  *Adelaide Festival

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Every year around Australia Day we hear about the Australian of the Year. It's usually someone pretty famous, known for performing some impressive feat. It's inspiring to see these people honoured with awards.

But what about our local heroes? Those everyday people who live among us, providing help and support, working to make this a better place to live, and quietly holding our communities together.

These people are truly worth their weight in gold. Most of the time they're volunteers, spending their time making their contributions in all sorts of ways.

Today's guest is Peter Baur, who was acknowledged for his work in Rotary with the Award for Outstanding Community Support.

The work that Peter and his Rotary colleagues do has helped so many people in the district, but it's also being felt and appreciated around the world. Here's Peter's story.

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Our local councils are a big part of what makes our community tick.

I caught up with Mount Barker Mayor Ann Ferguson for a chat about what's happening in the district, and what council is doing to make this a great place to live.

In our chat this month we're talking about...

Mosquitos

Disability Access & Inclusion

A local roads & community infrastructure grant

The periodical electoral review

And Australia Day

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In our series of interviews with local political candidates, This week's guest is the Kavel candidate for the Animal Justice Party, Padma Chaplin.

In her life Padma has been an actor, an activist, a musician, and an event organiser.  She talks to us today about her life, the party she represents, and her hopes for the future.

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2022 is a big year for elections. We're getting the opportunity to have our say at federal, state, and local government levels, and it's never been more important to know who the candidates are and what they stand for.

This week What The Hills presents the first in a series of interviews with candidates. Every candidate will be offered the opportunity for an interview this year. Those who accept will be given the chance to share their story, and to tell the community a little about who they are as a person.

This week's guest is Greens candidate for the state electorate of Kavel, Melanie Selwood.

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Last week on What The Hills we met Sally Harding. She's an Adelaide Hills local whose career and interests have put her right in the centre of local life.

In part one of our interview sally talked about moving to the hills, her work in newspapers and photography, and what she did to help out after the Cuddlee Creek bushfires.

This week we move on to other topics. Local history is something Sally is increasingly becoming interested in, and some of the community groups she's part of have opened her eyes to locals who have been important to the history of our district, and what we can do to make our history more accessible in the future.

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I put out a call recently for Adelaide Hills locals to share their stories of local life, and I wasn't disappointed. Sally Harding got in touch with me, and soon we were talking about shared experiences and our connection with the local community.

Sally has been involved with a lot of Hills organisations, and she just loves living here. Her work has given her some unique insights to just what being a Hills local means.

This week you'll hear the first half of my catch up with Sally. The second half will be out next week.

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Hands up who's looking for something new to read?  It's summer and there's no better way to spend some relaxation time than escaping into a good book.  If you can find one written by a local author, all the better.

The Adelaide Hills is full of authors in all genres.  Whatever it is that you want to read, you can find it written by an author who just might also be a neighbour.  It's one of the little perks of living here.

LJ Duncan has just published the third book in his dystopian series, and has already just about finished a brand new book - a crime thriller based in South Australia.  He's a Hills local - in fact he lives just down the road from me.  You can't get more local than that.

LJ's books, though, are at first glance not very local at all.  His sot (air) ia series takes place in a dystopian future where our world is almost unrecognisable.  But very soon we discover that Australia is centre stage, and not in a good way.

I caught up with LJ to talk about the process of writing and self publishing, where he gets his inspiration, and all about his books.

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This weekend has one of the highlights of the Christmas season in the Adelaide Hills.  The Nairne & Districts Residents Association presents the Nairne Community Carols at Nairne Primary School.  It's an award winning event, and this year Lofty will be there broadcasting the event live for the very first time.

It took a bit of planning around their busy routines, but I managed to catch up with a couple of the organisers to find out all about this year's event.  Kelly and David have been involved in the Nairne Community Carols for a few years now.  They spend months before the big day planning and working hard to ensure everything goes smoothly.  They're supported by a huge group of volunteers who do everything from looking for sponsors to deciding where everything will go and spending hours of physical work managing setup and pack up.

I'm really looking forward to being part of this year's Carols.  Keep listening to hear all about it.

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When you've lived in a place most of your life, you get to see a lot of changes, and you get to know a lot of people.

Jock Dean is a Mount Barker local, just like his parents and grandparents. Throughout his life he's mixed with locals who have shaped the district. They've had a hand in shaping what Mount Barker is today. Some of Jock's schoolmates include prominent sports and business people, members of local service clubs, and even my mum.

I caught up with Jock to reminisce about his early years in the town, his career, and what he thinks of how the future is shaping up. Listen closely, and see how many local names you recognise - I'm sure there will be quite a few.

Image from the Mount Barker Local History Centre:
Flashback to the 1960’s.
The old cars parked on Gawler Street, Mount Barker, look very stylish and not one of the cars look the same.
Source: Photograph: Call Number: PH-D-V1-00071
Mt Barker: Gawler Street looking East. Date: c1965.
Courtesy of Evelyn Ann (Betty) Schaefer.

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While the weather might not always do what we're expecting, it is definitely cricket season, and that's a great time for me to catch up with today's guest.

Joe Hill of the Alexandra and Eastern Hills Cricket Association has been involved as a player and administrator of local cricket for most of his life. This week, Joe gives us some insight to what's happening in the game now, and how it's evolved from the association cricket we know of decades gone by.  Joe talks to us about the new women's cricket competition, and an award recently won by the association.  And I might have a story to tell about how long I've been a fan of the game

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Have you ever wondered what would have happened if you had followed your childhood dreams?

What would your life be like now?  Would you be rich and famous?  Have an amazing career?  Live in another country?

It's hard to say how life would have turned out if we made different decisions.  And for more than a few of us, the opportunity to follow those childhood dreams is slipping out of our reach.

When Tiffany was in primary school she wanted to be a famous musician.  She learned to play a few instruments, and she started writing and performing her own songs.  First as a busker, and then at organised gigs.  Her family helped and encouraged her along the way, and now her musical career looks set to take off.

At the grand old age of fourteen, Tiffany has two current releases, and a handful of other songs in production.  I caught up with Tiffany when she was in the middle of a whirl of media interviews, and we got the chance to sit down for a long chat.  I also got the chance to talk to her biggest fan - her grandfather Gordon.

Check out Tiffany KB on Spotify

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One of the big parts of our lifestyle here in the Adelaide Hills is our rich arts culture.  The hills is a haven for artists of all types, where they can create, learn, share and sell their works.

An indelible part of that culture is Silvio Apponyi.  He's been creating sculptures for decades in stone, wood, and other materials.  Along the way he's helped many other artists get a hand up, and helped them on their way to their own successful careers.

Silvio's latest project is something that will never be finished.  He's working to create an arts hub at Crystal Lake at Macclesfield.  A place where creatives can get together, share ideas, and spread their artistic wings.

Silvio joins me this week to talk about his life and his plans to create a new space for creatives.

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Paul Farina grew up in the Adelaide Hills.

Along with his big brother Anthony he was a mad keen sports nut, involved in every sport he could get his hands on.

As an adult, Paul found himself playing cricket in England and then settling in Melbourne to develop his own business.

Then, a couple of years ago, Paul got call from his brother that he will never forget. Anthony had been diagnosed with cancer.

When your big brother suddenly becomes vulnerable it can knock your world around. Paul spent a lot of time looking at his own health. But he also spent a lot of time with Anthony as they reminisced about growing up in the Hills. They made a plan to catch up with some old mates.

Before they knew it, Paul, Anthony and the crew found themselves planning a gala dinner and a huge family fun day. This weekend you can get down to Heathfield oval to join in. Watch the T20 game, and enjoy all the entertainment on offer - it's going to be a great day out for all the family.

Today I'm talking to Paul about the event, but also about the very important and often neglected topic of men's health. There's some stuff in today's interview that every man needs to hear, so grab the men in your life and make sure they're listening.

Don't leave your health to chance. If you find something not quite right, or if you need help with your mental health, see your GP about it.

Family fun day and T20 game on Sunday 7 November

Click to book now

Adelaide Hills, Cricket, T20, Mount Lofty Cricket Club, Men's Health, Movember

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Some interesting topics can come up when you're having a free-ranging conversation. In my chat with Greg Were this week we did talk about his music and his latest album. But we also covered the nature of time and memory, problem solving methods used by Nicola Tesla and changes in the music industry.

Greg's new album, The Butterfly Revolution Continues, is available now, and it makes for some thought provoking listening.

Greg has generously given me permission to use his music for the podcast.

Join me and Greg as we talk about his music and far more.

What the Hills is the podcast for the Adelaide Hills. If it's happening in the Adelaide Hills you'll find it here.

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Love live music and a family day out?  This week What the Hills has something just for you.

The Hahndorf Band Festival is due to happen this weekend.  It's a full on day of live music brought to you by bands from across the Hills and the metro area.

This Saturday head to Hahndorf to enjoy the Festival as the bands compete to give us the most crowd pleasing music they can.

My guest this week is Greg Francis, who's a director of the festival, and a lifelong member of the Hahndorf Town Band.  He's really excited to bring the event to us, and share it with the community.  Greg talks about the event, but also about the band, the brass band tradition, and his family history in Hahndorf.

What the Hills is the podcast for the Adelaide Hills. If it's happening in the Adelaide Hills you'll find it here.

Subscribe to get each week's episode delivered straight to you.

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In the Adelaide Hills our community halls often sit in the background of our lives.  They're the place we go for yoga classes, for school holiday activities, emergency meetings when a disaster strikes our town, community fundraisers and markets.

We don't often think about the importance of our halls, but imagine what would happen if they were taken away.  They're so integral to our communities that it's possible we'd completely lose that community feeling without the focus point they provide.

This week on What The Hills I'm talking to Clare Bradley about the Mylor Hall,  which is ready for some changes so that it can keep serving the community it's part of.  The Mylor hall has a fantastic kitchen, great stage and lighting, modern air conditioning, and a great location.  What it needs is fresh volunteers and some new ideas, or it may be lost to us forever.

Clare tells us a little about the hall and what it means, and shares some of the ways it's become part of Mylor life, from her kids birthday parties to her favourite shirt.  Oh, and there might be a ghost and an explanation about why Mylor has no pub thrown in.

For more information about the Mylor hall, you can check out the Mylor Citizens Friendship Club, Mylor Hall, Mylor Music Night and Mylor History group, all on Facebook.  Don't forget the famous Mylor Pop Up Pub night on November 13 - it's rare indeed to have a night out at the pub in Mylor, so not to be missed.

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This week we continue with part two of our two part look into local residents associations and the work they do for the community. 

Di van Eck is back to tell us all about what's happening in the Mount Barker & Districts Residents Association.  As always, the budget is a big issue, and moves are underway to help the community better understand and even influence how rates are set and what they're spent on. And why are the rates in our local councils so much higher than in the old established council areas down town? What happens when a council election candidate goes back on their promises?

Next up I have a friendly chat with Leif Brown, who is the new president of the Nairne and Districts Residents Association.  As that's a role I myself held until just recently it was an opportunity for Leif and I to touch base and find out where we agree on the NDRA and its role in the community.  Again the conversation goes far and wide, covering everything from movie nights to politics, with a bit of family history in between.

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Residents' Associations. They're everywhere across the Adelaide Hills, and they're there for you.

They bring new ideas, advocate for change - or sometimes for good things to be retained. They can be your voice at local and state government levels.

With so much to talk about, it's no wonder that my chat with Di van Eck from the Mt Barker & District Residents' Association Inc went for quite a while.

This week What the Hills presents the first of a two part episode, focusing on our local residents associations.

We start by meeting Di and finding out about her childhood in Littlehampton. Soon we're talking about how times have changed, and the lifestyles of today's kids are very different from what Di and I both experienced as kids growing up in the Adelaide Hills. How much of that change can be attributed to technology, and how much is the result of the lifestyle big developers create for us?

We move on to the story of how Di became a member of the Mount Barker Residents' association, and instantly became an activist. Things have changed a little since those times, but she's still working to bring about a place where the needs of the community are met.

Finally, Di talks about the proposed new Town square for Mount Barker, and how the idea for the project sprang from a discarded music video.

Di is a very interesting speaker, and it was great to catch up with her about the importance of residents associations and the town square project.

This is part one of a two part interview

What the Hills is the podcast for the Adelaide Hills. If it's happening in the Adelaide Hills you'll find it here.

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Sometimes it's nice to just sit down and have a chat with someone and find out a little bit about them and the life they've led.

This week, that's exactly what I'm doing as I catch up with local Bruce Tonkin.

After and interesting youth, Bruce found himself part of the Adelaide Hills community, and was soon helping to coach his son's primary school soccer team.  From there, things escalated just a little bit, and he was soon traveling to overseas football tournaments, starting his own league, and getting involved in junior soccer at a region and state level.

Join me as Bruce covers topics from the value of international student exchanges, to the lights of our new sports hub, and the best thing he's ever done in his life.

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Just over twelve months ago, the world was a different place for a lot of us.  Australia had just experienced a nationwide shutdown.  We were grappling with the idea of Covid, and wondering what it meant for us.  And What The Hills had just become the newest locally produced podcast in the Adelaide Hills.

I wanted to explore what effect the shutdown was having on local businesses, so I caught up with four small business owners to find out how they were doing.

At the time they were overwhelmingly grateful to be still in operation.  They had relied heavily on payments like Job Keeper to stay afloat, and they had changed the way they were doing things.

Shail who runs a restaurant in Hahndorf had moved to a mostly take-away business model temporarily, and was taking the opportunity to do some renovations to his building.

Lyn at the Hahndorf knife shop had enforced very strict rules about how many people could enter her tiny shop.  She was worried about family members who were at risk, but was bravely battling on.

Steve had taken his sweets shop online, and was quietly hopeful that interstate sales would keep them afloat for a few months longer.

Kerri had gone out on a limb and extended her yoga practice from a private one woman show to a whole new studio in Mount Barker.

A year on, I caught up with Steve and Kerri to see how they're travelling now.  I can tell you that Shail's restaurant and Lyn's knife shop are still going strong, but they weren't available for a chat this time around.

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The city of Glasgow, where today's guest grew up, is known worldwide for its music scene, and the huge number of acts it's nurtured over many decades.

It's a hotspot for pretty much any style of music you can imagine, and a mecca for live performances.

It was in this environment where David Grant first experienced music. With two musical parents and the obligatory music and piano lessons as a kid, it's no surprise that he was performing in a band by the time he was fifteen.

Decades later, and on the other side of the world, David is still making music, this time with his new project, Sleat.

This week we have a special treat. David has given permission for his two new tracks to be played not just on the radio, but also on the podcast, so sit back and listen to my chat with David and some great music.

And a little note from David...

Hey Kimberley, Important that we play Sugarcoated given that it's the reason for the interview :) I currently am not signed to a record company and I own the copyright to both "Sugarcoated" and "Ships". Should these circumstances change, I will advise. I am principal writer of the music. Libby Wells is the lyricist and vocalist. The performers are myself, Libby Wells and Justin Shepherd. I have CC'd them here for their info and your peace of mind Regards, David

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I keep an eye out on social media to stay up to date with what's happening in the local area.

Last week I saw a post saying that a high school band was going to be playing a fundraiser at the local hardware store.  They were after people to turn up and take some pics for them.

So on Saturday I grabbed my camera and headed over, not knowing what to expect. 

What I found was two young guys playing their hearts out. They had a small collection of friends in the audience, listening and looking after their video recording, and a whole lot of people dropping donations in their bucket as they went in and out of the store.  It didn't seem to matter whether people liked the music or not.  They were happy to support a good cause, and encourage these young guys doing something they were obviously enjoying.

After the gig I caught up with Hayden and Jackson to talk about their music and their inspiration for running a fundraiser for the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. They had a lot to say about their dedication to music, the rock star lifestyle, and their plans for the future.

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This week on what the Hills, we're asking the question What Just Happened????

we're doing things a little bit differently.  After the recent SA Community Broadcasters Association awards night, I thought it would be a good idea to catch up with the guys from the Huddle, Lofty Radio's Wednesday night sports program.  They won the award for best sports program, and I won the award for best interview.  In addition Lofty Radio had two runners up - Harry in the youth volunteer section, and Jimmy the K for best program.

Despite my best intentions, any time spent with Jeff, Ben & Rob from the Huddle could go wildly off plan in seconds, and it did, right from the start.  Throw in Lisa singing in the next studio and Rob's very noisy tummy rumbles, and you have a recipe for mayhem.

This week's episode is presented With apologies to Jodie, fairies, Lisa, smallgoods manufacturers, tennis players, Andrew, Betty the Australian Lions Hearing Dog, my mum, Ben's mum, the entire town of Nairne, Julie, blind kids everywhere, deaf tenpin bowlers, and my microphones, whose lives were not actually threatened at any time, no matter what you hear during the interview.

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No matter how hard I try to keep it out, Covid has managed to make its way into every single episode of What The Hills.  It's cancelled events, interrupted business, stopped sport, and changed the way we do things every day.  It's also helped authors, artists and musicians to lock themselves away and be creative. We've learned to pivot, and in most cases that's not such a bad thing.

But I have to admit, I'm kind of tired of Covid popping up in every conversation I have.

So it's time I give Covid its very own episode.

For the past 18 months or so, Covid testing has been an essential tool for us to monitor and manage this pandemic.  Keeping up with the ongoing and sometimes enormous demand for testing is a huge task, which has seen an amazing response by our pathologists and the people who support them.

Charlie Robertson is the Engagement Lead at Clinpath - a South Australian business which has been an integral part of our state's Covid response.  She has a unique insight to the pandemic and how we're coping with it.  Along the way we'll find out why a Sunday roast can be an essential part of family life, and we delve into Charlie's husband's sock drawer, because that's a thing now too.

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I was very honoured and excited to be awarded the Bilby for Best Interview at this year's SA Community Broadcasters Association Awards. It's really special when a guest opens up and shares their story, and I was lucky enough to be the one there with the microphone.

My guest for this interview was Jodie Turpin, from the Lobethal Bushfire Recovery Centre. Jodie was nominated for, and won the Westfield Local Heroes award in 2020 for her work immediately following the 2019 bushfires, and in the many months after.
While the full interview covered a great deal concerning Jodie’s voluntary work, this five minute excerpt concentrates on her experiences at the time of the fire, and the
community’s response.

The bushfires of December 2019 had an enormous impact on the local community.
By the time the interview was conducted in September 2020 recovery was well underway, but there was still a long way to go. At the same time, we were heading into the next fire season with a great deal of trepidation. Jodie’s story is just one of hundreds, about the devastation of the fires and the amazing response from the community.

Everyone in the area has lifelong memories of bushfire, whether the 2019 fires or those which have happened in the past. Jodie was able to talk about not only the amazing work she did during the recovery, but her own very close encounter with the fire. She also speaks in a very heartfelt way about her grief and guilt at surviving with her home and family intact. It’s a very emotional point when both Jodie and Kimberley are momentarily unable to continue with the interview as they contemplate the effect that fire has had on both them and their community. Thise episode had a huge amount of feedback from listeners.

“Wow that awesome, I had lots of msgs also when I shared the last link. It was a very touching interview, I had emotions come out for the first time since that devastating day. It means a lot that you took the time out to want to hear my story and experiences during the devastating fires.”

Jodie Turpin, Lobethal Bushfire Recovery

“If you can get me to listen to every word on a chat show..... I don’t normally stay in the zone when it comes to blah blah blah, but you and your guests are so interesting, you have my full attention. Loving it! But you made me cry so much. I just finished putting my eye liner on too and now have to start again!”

Lofty Listener

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What is art to you? Portraits on canvas? Landscapes? Something a little more avant-garde?

Monika Morgenstern's works are all about colour and movement. They're not just something to look at - they're an experience.

This week Monika talks about her art and how it's evolved and changed from the days when she was a self taught painter to today, when she is part of the 2021 SALA Festival.

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So you think you can't get into team sport?  Maybe you're too old, too young,  have health issues, can't run, want to only play indoors?

Walking Football might just be the sport for you.  It's very inclusive and looking for new players right now.

What The Hills every Monday morning in you podcast player.

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Today on What The Hills we're asking the question "what does it take to create a great picture book?"

Mandy Foot has an amazing artistic talent, so it isn't surprising that she found herself studying design and illustration at university.  She eventually found herself illustrating children's picture books, and loving it.  Her strong empathy with animals led her to create art starring some of her favourite animals along the way. 

But then, Mandy wanted more.  Today on What The Hills, Mandy shares the story of how she ended up writing her own picture books, via a long and interesting journey which could be a book in its own right, complete with sudden twists, travel, and even real live dragons.

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Lofty Community Media presents a recording of the Positive Aging Forum held in Mount Barker on 15 July 2021.

The forum was hosted by Member for Mayo Rebekha Sharkie, and included presentations by the

Aged Rights Advocacy Service

Council on the Aging

Graeme Goodings speaking about positive aging

National Seniors of Australia Chief Advocate Ian Henschke

Dementia Australia

Grandparents for Grandchildren

University of the Third Age

Belinda Sheldrick on Demystifying Self Managed Aged Care

For further information on any aged care issues please contact the organisation directly, or the office of Rebekha Sharkie.

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Lofty Community Media presents a recording of the Positive Aging Forum held in Mount Barker on 15 July 2021.

The forum was hosted by Member for Mayo Rebekha Sharkie, and included presentations by the

Aged Rights Advocacy Service

Council on the Aging

Graeme Goodings speaking about positive aging

National Seniors of Australia Chief Advocate Ian Henschke

Dementia Australia

Grandparents for Grandchildren

University of the Third Age

Belinda Sheldrick on Demystifying Self Managed Aged Care

For further information on any aged care issues please contact the organisation directly, or the office of Rebekha Sharkie.

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This week on What The Hills we have a must-listen interview for anyone who needs to know about care for people with dementia.  It's often a difficult subject, but today's guest knows her way around it, and is here to share some ideas about how we can personalise dementia care, and improve quality of life for everyone involved.

Jenny Slape was comfortable in her career as a chaplain, working in aged care facilities. 

She loved her work and felt that she was filling an important role for people in care, their families, and staff.

But then she wanted to do more, so she headed to university, and before she knew it, she had completed a PhD. 

With the help of an Adelaide Hills publisher, Jenny turned her PhD into a book which discusses how care for those with dementia can be personalised, and provide for the very best life for some of our most vulnerable people.

I sat down to talk with Jenny about her studies, dementia, and how she came to write a book that can help everyone involved in aged and dementia care.

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Do you stutter, or do you know someone who stutters? You may be surprised to find that you probably talk to someone who stutters every week, or more!
Geoff Johnston is a lifelong stutterer, but through years of training and practice he now speaks fluently, and it takes a bit of effort to notice anything different about the way he speaks.
Over many years Geoff has helped hundreds of other people manage their stutters, and learned a bit about the topic.  He joins us for a chat about stuttering and how it can affect people's entire lives.

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Today on What The Hills we're doing something a little different. Usually I talk to the movers and shakers, people who have a message to share about something interesting that's happening around the Adelaide Hills.

But this week, I'm having a casual chat with a friend of mine.

Stephen Lucas is a school bus driver, photographer, carer, and a man with an interesting life. And We're asking the question: "What's Stephen's Story?"

Sometimes we think that we know where life is going to take us, but quite often we're surprised to find that our plans aren't quite panning out how we expected them to.

As a child, Stephen's life seemed fairly simple and uneventful. His biggest problem was the fact that he was a kid and both of his parents were school teachers.

Then tragedy struck and Stephen's life took a different turn.

Later on a lifelong interest got him his dream job in a way that he never thought possible.

Through all of his challenges Stephen has persevered, dealing with whatever life throws at him.

I boarded is bus for a chat about his life and some of the events which shaped it.

If you'd like to be our next special guest on What The Hills, I'd love to hear from you.

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Tony has been involved in many aspects of the arts throughout his life.  This week he shares some of his story and talks about why the arts is such an important part of our lives every day.

Tony also shares what's happening with this year's Hahndorf Winter Lantern Festival and the workshops happening leading up to it.

What The Hills is your local insight into the people and the life of the Adelaide Hills. 

Start your week right with What The Hills each Monday morning.

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Growing up in Manchurian China, Stella learned the art of mushroom foraging from her grandmother.  Along the way she developed a love for the outdoors, and an appreciation for wet winter weekends outside, while most of us are staying indoors.

This week Stella shares her story, a couple of very punny jokes, and some delicious mushroom recipes, along with some other ideas for ways to spend a winter afternoon.

What The Hills is your local insight into the people and the life of the Adelaide Hills. 

Start your week right with What The Hills each Monday morning.

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Suzie Hindmarsh Knights has always been a reader, a writer, and a traveller. 

When she combined all three and started sharing stories set in places both very familiar and stretched across the world, she discovered a new career as an author. 

In today's interview, Suzie takes us from south america to japan, oakbank to london, an around south australia's outback. 

And we end up in a room in her balhannah home where she sits with her dogs by her side and writes stories that come from her life experience, and her  travels far and wide.

I caught up with Suzie to find out about her life and her newly published book, El Alto.

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Roller Derby had its start in the 1930's and has grown and developed ever since. Today it's a popular sport for pretty much anyone to be involved in, providing a lot of fun and excitement along the way.
I was so excited when Toxic Cherries players Black Belt-her, Whammi and Smash Effect dropped in to talk about their sport, and some come & try sessions coming up soon.

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National Volunteer Week is a time to celebrate our many volunteers and all the things they do for our communities. If you live in the Adelaide Hills it's likely that you're a volunteer. You may also benefit from the work done by volunteers, without even knowing.
Do you sit in with your kid's class and help with reading, or take your turn on the sports club barbecue? Do you get roped in to score your friend's basketball game or help out at the annual Christmas pageant? You, my friend, are a volunteer.

Listen in for details of how you can get free movie tickets this week, and a volunteer opportunity for you right now.

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Great rock & roll music is more than just the songs. It's a live band, singing or loud, and getting lost in the experience.

When those bands get together to support a community through fundraising and a great day out, it gets even better.

I caught up with Workin' Overtime, Crosstown Ramblers and The Masters Apprentices at a fundraiser in Lobethal recently.

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Local new music comes in styles to suit just about everyone, and it's easy to find. So why doesn't it get played in local venues and on commercial radio?
In a chat with Matt Davis of Mode Shifter fame, we explore the issue, and discuss our shared musical history. Matt also talks about his life and how it's influenced the music he's producing today.

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Get your tissues out for this one.

In What The Hills this week I don't have my usual interview for you. Instead I'm telling a story, about my great great uncle Charlie and the "Gallipoli Die-Hards". I can't take all the credit for the episode this week. Much is taken from the letters of Jack McCarthy, a friend of Uncle Charlie, who wrote home during the war. Some is also from a story published in the Barrier Miner newspaper in Broken Hill.

I'd also like to acknowledge the Australian War Memorial and its treasure trove of information which I used to piece together the story.

I also have my favourite Anzac Biscuit recipe for you. If you'd like to make your own, check out my source for the recipe: https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/anzac-biscuits-with-rosemary-burnt-butter-and-honey-recipe

This episode is published early so you can hear it on Anzac Day.

Start your week right with What The Hills every Monday

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Well, I've had a big weekend. How about you?

This week we're talking to the Sprite Club of South Australia and Jade Tribal Belly Dance, after we met both groups at the recent Over Covid bushfire fundraiser event.

Both groups get out on weekends and do surprisingly similar things in quite different ways. Find out just what these groups have in common in this week's episode, along with Adelaide Hills news and weather.

Start your week right with What The Hills every Monday morning.

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We head to Rawnsley Park Station where the scenery is unforgettable.

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Ever wondered what would happen if you followed your dream?

Mick needed to find something positive in his life, and then along came the Variety Club Bash.  In 2021 Mick is taking part in his third Bash, along with his mate Dave, who is a first timer. Their goal this year is to raise at least $20,000 for Variety, to help out kids in need.

They both say it's the best thing they've done. 

Start your week right with What The Hills every Monday morning. All the people and stories from the Adelaide Hills, along with local news and weather.

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We're in Hawker at the doorstep of the Flinders Ranges.

We meet up with local artist Jeff Morgan, and see some of the amazing local sights.

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What the Hills is continuing with its usual weekly episodes about the Adelaide Hills, but for a short time only, we're giving you extra episodes about our travels around some of the less visited parts of South Australia over a five week journey.
In this episode we set off and travel to Hawker. We have everything from shopping trips to landscape, and free coffee to a starry night sky.

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Many thousands of people across Australia rely on Meals On Wheels to provide the food they eat every day. The daily visits are important not just for food, but for a quick social interaction and an essential safety check.

But while people rely on Meals on Wheels for their food, Meals on Wheels relies on volunteers to get the food to where it's so desperately needed. There's been increased demand on the Mount Barker Kitchen this year, and they're feeling the strain.
I talked to Chris about why they desperately need new volunteers, and how the program has become a part of daily life for so many people in our community.

Start your week right with What The Hills every Monday morning.

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With the centenary of Anzac came huge crowds as people of all ages gained a renewed interest in our Australian history, and the history of their family members. By 2019 crowds at Dawn Services around the country and around the world had swelled to some of the greatest ever seen. Then last year, things changed. We had to do things differently because the world was facing an emergency not seen since the very beginnings of the Dawn Service tradition. We were asked to commemorate the day differently, and many of us did, without a fuss.

This year, things are still not quite back to normal. RSL groups across the country have something new to contend with - the Covid Management Plan. It’s a huge task for a small group of generally elderly people to run a Dawn Service in any given year. This year they were being asked to comply with some really difficult laws, aimed at keeping us all safe.

For a very small number of RSL's, the state government has provided support, but for the vast majority they faced the prospect of doing it all on their own, with no support and very few resources.

It just couldn't be done. And so, reluctantly, they decided to once again ask us to mark the day privately. Rebecca tells us why it's still so important to mark the day.

Start your week right with What The Hills every Monday morning.

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It has been called the largest uprising by women in Australia's history. Tens of thousands of women and supporters around Australia gathered to march, to protest inequality and gendered violence.

This weeks What the Hills joins with Tanya Lyons of "We've Got News For You" to bring you the personal stories behind the protests.

The radio music playlist for this weeks episode is:
* Kate Miller-Heidke - You've Underestimated Me, Dude
* Hot Potato Band - It's Your Own Body
* Could Do Better - Only Women Bleed
* Helen Reddy - I Am Woman
* 4 Non-Blondes - What's Up?

I really love each of these songs, as my family and neighbours can attest. I hope you'll track them down and sing along with me.

Start your week right with What The Hills every Monday morning.

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As a service to the NDRA and the Nairne community, What The Hills presents a report to the NDRA at its February 2021 meeting, by Council employee Kristian Wohlstadt.

The report covers the planned "Village Green" project to reinvigorate our parks in the centre of Nairne. 

There are questions from the floor, which vary in sound quality.  Please be patient while you're listening.

If you'd like to know more about what's happening in the Nairne area, contact the NDRA or attend one of the monthly meetings.

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Biodiversity is an idea gaining interest all around the world. On this week's program you can hear all about a new local volunteer organisation that supports biodiversity and gives you a chance to be part of what they're doing.
Warren from Hills Biodiversity explains just what biodiversity is, and how local businesses and people can get involved.

Start the week right with What The Hills every Monday

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Way back in the 1840's, when Mount Barker was a new settlement with great hopes for an agricultural future, the Mount Barker District Show was born.  Since then it's grown and changed to become the modern show it is today, serving the community and showing us the best that this area can produce.

The Mount Barker show has faced challenges through its long history, including a few years when it was in recess, and last year's covid cancellation, just days before the gates were due to open.

The show is an icon of our community, and one of the amazing things about it is that it's run entirely by volunteers.  This week I caught up with two of those volunteers to find out what's in store for us at this week's show.

Also local Adelaide Hills news and weather.  Start your week right with What the Hills every Monday.

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Did you ever think that your life would make a really good book?  Lyn Dickason had a story in her just waiting to be told, and has now turned that story into a book.  I sat down with Lyn to hear about her life in Africa.  It's an amazing story of a culture so different from our own.  I was fascinated to hear all the details, and I can't wait to read the book when it's published.

Living where we do, we don't hear much about what everyday life is like for people in other places around the world.  It takes someone like Lyn to share those stories and give us an insight into the daily challenges faced by people just like us.  I want to thank Lyn for sharing her story, and opening a window into a world we rarely get to see up close.

We also have all the news and weather for the week, as well as a round up of happenings at last week's Adelaide Hills Council meeting.

Start your week right with What The Hills every Monday morning.

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What The Hills interviewed local musician Matt Hawkins last year. At the time we heard about his life and musical career, and an event that he organised to raise funds for bushfire relief last summer.

This week Matt is back, sharing news of an award he received in relation to that event, and another event coming up in just a few weeks. We'll hear all about the March 14 concert, and the big act headlining the night. It's going to be a big one, so listen to learn all about it.

As always, the latest news from the Adelaide Hills and this weeks's weather. Start your week right with What The Hills.

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South Australians are great volunteers, in all parts of our community.  This week I chat with the South Australian Rally Panel's 2020 Official of the Year, about volunteering, rallying, and what he loves about his sport. Join me for a chat with Adelaide Hills local, Andrew Challen

What The Hills is your local insight into the people and the life of the Adelaide Hills. 

Start your week right with What The Hills each Monday morning.

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When she learned that a friend's garden had been damaged in last summer's bushfires, Sue thought she should do something to help.

She never expected that this first step would lead her on a journey that has lasted well over a year, and shows no sign of ending.

If you believe in the power of gardening you need to hear this episode. Also, all the local news and weather to start your week right.

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Jim and his Horsnell Gully neighbours live in a beautiful part of the Hills. There's a quarry in the area, but it's been there for many years, and they're generally ok with that. But recently the quarry's new owners have announced plans to make huge changes. They want to greatly increase the size of the quarry, work at all hours of the day and night, and even applied to remove a peak that not only provides environmental protection, but maintains the view of the hills face from town. I caught up with Jim to find out what he and his neighbours are doing to find a better alternative for everyone involved.

I also talk to Nairne local, Joshua, about Wednesday's big traffic jam. And we have local news and weather. 

Start your week right with What The Hills. 

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No, I haven't taken a holiday this week. For the radio version of this week's program I played a bunch of music, which unfortunately can't be shared on the podcast.

I'm really really sorry that all you'll hear after the news and weather today is the intros of the fantastic songs you can hear on the radio. I promise you, though, those songs really are worth listening to.

Please check out this week's artists (you can hear them all on AMRAP) and show them some love.

Meanwhile, while I was busy editing this week's program, a bushfire threatened our Adelaide Hills community. Publishing has been delayed a little as I waited for the latest news Monday morning, so instead of the usual 6am Monday start, it's taken a little longer to get the show to you (but you can wait an extra hour or so, can't you?)

Spoiler alert: the fire was contained late last night, and it started raining before I hit the "publish" button.

Here's where to find all the music you're missing out on: amrap.org.au Happy listening!

Start your week right with What The Hills - the podcast for the Adelaide Hills

Agnes Blue - Invisible Man
Boorook - Positive Change
Casii Williams - Fallin' Down
Eleea - Space
Fig Tree Mob - Barrunba (Dreaming)
Kerryn Fields - Mamma
KMC - The Situation
Kutcha Edwards - We Sing
Melanie Horsnell - Black Mountains
Mia Lovelock - Endure
Pirra - No Man's Land
Si Wilson - Rain's Gonna Fall
Tilly Tjala Thomas - Ngana Nyunyi

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When you think of the driver of a rally car, what do you imagine?  A factory-backed 40 something man with a big expensive car (or three)?  That's not always the case, and some of the most exciting new drivers in the rally world are nothing like the stereotype.

This week I'm talking to Molly Spalding, local Adelaide Hills driver, and young leader in the sport.  Molly shares the story of how she became involved in motorsport, her mixed-up 2020, and what she's planning to do next.

As always, all the local Adelaide Hills news and weather to start your week right.

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Tanya Lyons presents "We've Got News For You" on Lofty Community Media each Monday morning.

Today her special guest was Federal Member for Mayo, Rebekha Sharkie MP.  Rebekha talked about issues affecting our local area, and how she's representing us at a federal level.

And when all the serious talking is over, Rebekha opens up about her New Year's Eve, what she'd call our new Sports Hub, and what happened on the way to the studio.

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Sometimes life gets busy and you can't get a new podcast episode out when you planned.  That's what happened last week when I was away on holiday and didn't get home in time to edit and publish an episode for you.

To make up for it, this week's episode is all about my holiday on Kangaroo Island.

I talk to Jo, who was visiting KI to hand over a donation of money she's spent all year raising.  She has some surprising reasons for working so hard on her fundraiser.

I also spend New Years Eve in the 5KixFM radio studio.  You'll get a behind the scenes view of what goes on in a radio station studio when we think nobody's listening, and you can join us to relive the countdown to midnight.

Finally, Emma dropped in for a chat about her vision for a more visitor-friendly Adelaide Hills.

Don't forget to start your week right, and subscribe to What The Hills.

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It's been six months since What The Hills began as a radio program and podcast.  In that time we've talked to dozens of interesting people.

This week we're looking back on some of my favourite episodes with artists, authors, business owners, and people who are working hard for the community.

Join me to look back on 2020 and on the first six months of What The Hills - the podcast for the Adelaide Hills.

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It's all things "end of year" this week.

First, we chat with some school kids about their year and what they think next year will bring.

Then we catch up with Hills locals, a Christmas Elf, and my Mum to find out how they do Christmas.

As always, the Adelaide Hills news and weather starts the show.

Start your week right with What The Hills

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It's a huge double episode this week, with two full-length interviews.

First I talk to Patrick Hankin about a support group he's set up for men who are victims of domestic violence. It's an issue we all hope we never have to deal with, but it's important to know that help is available for those who need it.

Next I catch up with Mayor Ann Ferguson and Luke Gray from Mount Barker District Council, for the most in-depth interview they've given about plans to create a brand new Town Square for Mount Barker. It's a very ambitious project, which is set to change the face of the town forever.

Also local news and weather to keep you up to date.

WHERE TO GET HELP 1800 RESPECT (national sexual assault, domestic and family violence counselling service) - call 1800 737 732 or chat online Mensline Australia (telephone and online support for men) - call 1300 78 99 78 or chat online Men’s Referral Service (telephone counselling service for men) - call 1300 766 491 Dads in Distress (support for separated dads and their families) - call 1300 853 437 Victims & Witnesses of Crime Court Support (free court support service to any victim or police witness of crime) - contact (02) 9287 7671 QLife (support for same-sex couples) - call 1800 184 527 or chat online Lifeline (anyone having a personal crisis) - call 13 11 14 or chat online

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This week I'm talking to Laura from Australian Lions Hearing Dogs about a new project she's heading, to develop Diabetic Alert dogs. They'll be out in the community, saving lives every day. But Laura needs some help from special people in the community.

I also met with Karyn, who organised a Spring Clean day in Nairne, where over 60 garage sales and give-aways were held on one day over the weekend. She tells us why it was important to her to make the day happen.

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When Judith decided to pursue writing as a hobby she had no idea that it would lead to the publication of her first novel. It's a story of murders happening right here in the Adelaide Hills, with a lot of scenery readers will recognise.
I talk to Judith about the inspiration for her novel, and where some of the characters originated.

In this week's 5 minute soapbox, I hear from Simon, who has something to say about the GM crops debate. He discusses the pros and cons, but is in no doubt about his views.

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This week on What The Hills we've finally caught up with everyone else and done a bit of a Covid pivot. This week features our first remotely recorded interviews. With guests not always having a microphone handy it was a bit of a challenge, but here we are ready to go.

After the weekly news and weather report we talk to Tallara from the Gum Tree Community Garden in Littlehampton and David from the Old School Community Garden in Stirling.

Our special guests for this week's Soapbox are Kelly and David from the Nairne Community Carols - an event doing its best to go ahead this year in the face of all kinds of challenges. The Carols event is looking for volunteers, and they need you!

David from TOSCG asked me to pass on some extra information:
"Firstly the initiator of the garden was Simon Jones, then a Councillor at the AHC.
Significant contributors to the development and management of the garden that I didn’t mention include: Ben Mumford – engineer; Marty Roberts(wicking bed workshop leader and tractor driver) and Louise (Lou) Roberts (fantastic secretary); then there is our insightful President Rachelle Sandow, agriculturalist Simon Goodhand and Kathy Newman, a master cottage garden builder and so it goes on – there are many others who have contributed over the years.
On reflection, if I had used names I would have surely left someone out!"

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In this week's episode I'm talking to well-known Hahndorf local, Sharon Pippos, about the town's history, and the essential role of its pioneer women.

After fleeting religious persecution in Europe they travelled around the world to create a new life in a strange and often threatening land.

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When Sharee was encouraged to begin a gratitude journal she had no idea of the journey she was beginning.

Soon she was the author of a children's book, and looking for someone to create the illustrations. 

Susan is an artist who has always dreamed of illustrating a book. Now she is getting her chance. 

This week we hear the story of how their new book came about. 

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Wendy Dixon-Whiley is a local treasure, creating amazing and inspiring artworks not just in galleries, but also out in the open where we can see them every day.

We can see her art in Mount Barker, Littlehampton, and Hahndorf, and it's been exhibited here and in Europe.  

Join me to find out what inspires Wendy, and to get the low-down on how an artist really works.

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Freedom Hill Sanctuary is a place where rescued farm animals can live out their lives in idyllic surroundings. But the threat of bushfires meant that Freedom Hill didn't feel quite like the sanctuary it should have been. This week I talk to Padma, one of Freedom Hill's volunteers, about the sanctuary and its move to a new home.

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Our community halls are at the heart of so much that happens in our towns.  In times of disaster they're the places where we gather to give and receive the help and support we need to start again.

After last summer's bushfires, Cuddlee Creek Recovery came up with a plan to revitalise our halls and bring people back to these important facilities.  Your Hall - Your Hub is happening this weekend: 25 October.  

This week What The Hills hears about the event, and why halls are so important.

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John Wamsley has been a household name in the Adelaide Hills for decades.  He's the famous man in the cat skin hat who established Warrawong Wildlife Sanctuary locally and others around Australia.

John has had a fascinating life, and a range of careers.  Hear about them and his world-renowned conservation work.

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Public transport is something that many of us rely on to get around every day. But in the Adelaide Hills, services can be very difficult to access, if they exist at all.
Stephen Lucas is a public transport advocate, using his decades of experience to put pressure on the state government to provide the service we need. Hear what he has to say.

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Zac Lambe is passionate about his community and the role that young people have to play in it.  Last year he managed and directed a new youth music festival called The BreakUp.  This year he's doing it all over again, while finishing school and planning his future.

Event management is set to be a big part of Zac's life, but that's not all he's interested in.  He also wants to bring a young person's perspective to local government.  He has big plans, and I have no doubt that he will achieve his goals.

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RUOK day is an annual reminder for all of us to ask those around us if they're ok.
I talk to local personality Chris Savvy about how RUOK started, how he got involved, and what it's all about.
Savvy is an RUOK Ambassador, and knows how important it is to not only check in on our friends, but to know what to say next.
On this RUOK day, and every day, take a minute to ask, and to listen to the answer. You might just save a life.

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When disaster struck the Adelaide Hills in the days before Christmas last year, Jodie Turpin answered the call to step up and help get assistance to those who needed it most.
Nine months later she's still making sure locals affected by the fires are being supported.

Jodie talks to me about the first days after the bushfires, and what she's been doing since - including being nominated for an award.

Recording this interview came with a few emotional moments for both of us as we remembered the devastation and the amazing support from the community. Keep your tissues handy.

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Ray Marin has long had an interest in local history and architecture. When he was gifted research notes from another local academic and author Ray took the opportunity to create a book which explores the early history of the Adelaide Hills and Barossa Valley.
The result is an easy to read book covering many Hills and Barossa towns and some of the industries that built them.
As you'd expect, there's some interesting architectural information included, and a lot of information about the influence of the early Lutheran settlers who opened up much of the region.

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We've all heard of guide dogs for the blind, but have you ever met a hearing dog?
I talk to David, Mary & Darren at Australian Lions Hearing Dogs about they work they do, and the amazing benefits that can come to the recipient of a hearing dog.
The team at AHLD are a great bunch of people. It was fascinating to catch up and learn all about the organisation.

Please buy a ticket in their raffle. Go to their FB page for details on how to get tickets.

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Matt Hawkins spent years travelling the world learning musical styles from dozens of different cultures.
After returning home and settling in the Adelaide Hills Matt searched for work, only to find it right on his doorstep. This led to him arranging a fantastic fundraiser to help people affected by last summer's bushfires - an event which brought some amazing acts to our doorstep.
Matt also shares the story of how he came to write a very special song which he will gift to the Carly Ryan Foundation. He also gives us a live performance of the song.

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Sustainable living is different for everyone, but what does it really look like?

This week I talk to Cristel from Climate Ready Communities and Jackson from Enduro builders about how they're helping us to create a sustainable lifestyle.

Cristal tells us about everyday, practical steps we can all take to live in a changing climate.

Jackson explains how the homes he builds can reduce our impact on the planet while at the same time protecting us from the effects of weather extremes.

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It's a complex chemistry that goes back hundreds of years, but distilling some of our favourite alcoholic drinks is reasonably new to the Adelaide Hills. I talk to two of our local distillers about the huge growth in the local industry and how they're using their skills in an evolving art. Along the way we take a quick trip to Europe, explore some of the huge variety of ingredients used, and find out about the impact of local distilleries on tourism.

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One Thursday just over a month ago my friends at Lofty Community Media got in touch and offered a spot for me to have a weekly program on Lofty Radio.

"Sure," I said.

"Great! You start Monday," was their response.

Panic Stations!  How on earth would I put together an hour of quality (but not music based) radio in just four days?  What would I do after that?  

Thankfully I have friends who are always up for a chat, so I got in touch with Mount Barker Councillor Samantha Jones.  By the time Monday rolled around I had put together some conversation starters for my hour with Sam, and had a slightly less vague idea about how the program would progress in future weeks.

That first interview was great fun.  With Tanya pushing the buttons, Sam doing all the talking, and me piping up with a couple of well placed questions to steer the conversation, we made it through the hour with big smiles on our faces.

Within a couple of days I had people telling me they'd missed the episode and demanding a replay.  And so the podcast was born.

Between that first week and now I've recorded and produced four radio episodes for Lofty, and then converted them into podcast episodes. It's been a steep learning curve and a whole lot of fun.

Today I recorded two interviews for next week's show (I'm gradually getting further ahead in my planning than I was that first week).  It struck me that I'm in a very privileged position.  I get to explore any topic that suits me.  I get to approach, meet and interview the people who are right in the middle of what's happening in their field.  As a huge bonus I get to do all of this in the beautiful Adelaide Hills - a place I love.  After all of that I get to share my conversations with people listening on radio and on my very own podcast. 

I'm really looking forward to improving how I do things and producing better episodes each week.  Stay tuned for more.

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When womens footy started in the Adelaide Hills just a few years ago, Megan and Holly were at the forefront of its development.  Now they represent some of the best and most exciting sport happening in the area. They discuss the beginnings of the game and where they think it will go in the next few years.

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When she heard that another woman had been attacked on a popular local walking trail, Hayley knew just what to do.  She organised some hikes for women, aimed at building resilience and strengthening the community of walkers. I joined in on the first of these walks to find out how women are feeling and what they're doing about it.

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I talk to Bill Hankin about the South Eastern Freeway.

Its importance to the people of the Adelaide Hills is enormous, but does the freeway really meet our needs?  We explore one of South Australia's most famous roads from its beginnings to the future.

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Covid-19 has had a huge effect on businesses all over Australia. 

I talk to the owners of four Adelaide Hills businesses to find out how they were affected, what they did about it, and what they think the future holds for them.

Recorded July 2020